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UBT: “Why My Affair Will Turn Into a Healthy Relationship!”

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OWbrideMany chumps sent me the HuffPo article “Here’s Why My Affair Will Turn Into a Healthy, Long-Term Relationship” which originally ran at DivorcedMoms.com (Short answer: Because you’re really super special and in love.) By “Claire.” (No last name, because pride in your relationship stops at surnames.)

So, let’s put it through the patented Universal Bullshit Translator.

Can relationships based on infidelity last?

Oh, many chumps hope so, Claire. Because there is no more perfect karma than for two cheaters to wind up together, making each other miserable in perpetuity with the little slings and arrows of their shittiness. But unfortunately, yeah, these things tend to fall apart when the sparkles wear off.

It’s such a funny question though — you just want to know if it can LAST. Well, plenty of things endure. Doesn’t mean they’re healthy and happy though.

But if it lasts then people won’t think you’re an idiot for breaking up the home of three kids. It all Had a Greater Purpose.

Had you asked the girl I was nine years ago this question, as I was entering into marriage (and of course having it all figured out at the ripe old age of 21) I would have given you a resounding “NO” and rattled off the reasons I knew to be true.

Of course a relationship founded on lies and secrets could not be healthy. How could you ever expect someone who cheated with you to not cheat ON you?

This is your sensible self talking, Claire. Listen to her. Or ignore her until you find the sext messages on his cell phone.

Would you always be suspicious of them and would they be suspicious of you? These reasons of course would lead any rational person to say, “no…there is no circumstance under which an affair can lead to a healthy relationship.”

Fast forward nine years. I am at the end of my marriage, have 3 children, a home, 3 dogs… and while I definitely still have a lot to learn about life, I will say I am nowhere near as jaded as I once was with the illusions of what marriage would be.

We failed at marriage in just about every way possible,

Always the royal We with you cheaters. No, you failed at marriage by cheating. I’m sure your husband wasn’t perfect, but he didn’t cheat on you, and he didn’t bail on three kids and three dogs — so I think this failure is yours. Please own it.

all leading up to me saying “enough is enough” when it came to his substance abuse and… in the end… my falling in love with another man.

Oh, well he had a substance abuse problem. That’s different. Of course you had to cheat on him. I mean, he sucks, right? Did he have a substance abuse problem when you married him? Had kid 1? 2? 3? When exactly did you become aware of this problem?

Did you try Al-Anon? Therapy? Honest conversations? A call to the divorce lawyer? Detaching with love?

This is about the man (let’s call him 40) that I have fallen head over heels, getting hit by a freight train, madly in love with and whether or not we will be able to translate a relationship started while I was still married into a happy, mutually respectful, healthy relationship. The logical, college educated part of me says absolutely not.

Horrible sentence construction, Claire. But from what I can tell, this guy you’re “madly in love with” is still not a sure thing? Because you’re not sure whether or not you “will be able to translate” the relationship into something permanent?

Best of luck with that. I’m sure he’d never throw a woman with three kids under the bus. That never happens. You know, guys who fuck married women for no-strings-attached sex, who are then suddenly available — yes, those men always fall madly-deeply-freight-train-in-love with you.

Guys who love no-strings-attached sex are just AWESOME at blended family life.

However, let’s just play devil’s advocate here. What if — in spite of the circumstances, and in spite of the underlying potential jealousy issues — we manage to make it work?

What if pigs could play banjos? What if eating a steady diet of cookies resulted in weight loss? What if owls were Soviet spies?

I mean, it’s possible.

And not only make it work but have the kind of love I once thought did not even exist. Does that mean that it is possible to trust someone you know is capable of adultery? I know myself and I know my heart.

Well, it’s nice to know you know you won’t cheat. Which tells you fuck all about him. See, that’s the thing, Claire. We don’t control people with our love. Just because we feel something doesn’t mean the other person does too or will behave ethically. Ask your husband about that.

I know that what I did was not something I should have done. I should have done the brave thing and left my marriage before starting a relationship with someone else. I could have spared more feelings by leaving when I knew I wanted to. But I didn’t. And now I am left with a bit of uncertainty about the future of my relationship with 40.

Spared more feelings? That’s a nice bit of minimization. You have to know your husband and children are devastated by your affair. Yes, the brave thing would have been leaving honestly before you cheated, and yes, your husband and kids would have been hurt by a divorce.

But then you would’ve been alone. A single parent. No fantasy to sustain you. It’s hard, hard work. Much better to toss them all over for The Great Love of the Ages.

And you have just “a bit of uncertainty about the future” of your relationship with 40?

He’s not putting a ring on it? Can’t imagine why not!

Adultery is a messy business. I would say to anyone that is considering an affair, in the middle of an affair, or just getting out of an affair, really spend some time looking at the reasons for your actions. I think the answer to whether or not you can make a healthy relationship out of an affair lies in these reasons.

If you were cheating just for the excitement, or just to get back at your spouse for their prior bad acts, the odds are you aren’t looking for a healthy relationship to come out of it anyway. I do think there is an exception though. I think that there are times, such as when your marriage is essentially over, and you are just in limbo mentally and emotionally, when a relationship that begins with an affair can end in a happy relationship.

Yes, of course, you’re one of the Better Class of Cheaters. You didn’t do it for the excitement, or to get back at your spouse (for say, his substance abuse). No, you Did It For Love! And that makes you different than other cheaters how exactly? You really think other cheaters don’t think they feel special butterflies too?

Your marriage was “essentially over”? Gee, did you inform your husband of that — or just your affair partner?

Marriages that are “essentially over” have consulted lawyers and have separation agreements, separate addresses, and separate finances.

“Emotional limbo” doesn’t cut it.

I know this is not the most popular opinion to hold. Infidelity is typically met with a great deal of opinion and judgment, and very rarely are any exceptions made in regards to how the general public views a “cheater”.

But I can tell you’re working really hard to change that, Claire. Why not write a nice HuffPo piece about it and change the world’s opinion of your Love?

But I would suggest, before rushing judgment of the woman you work with or know from your child’s school, that you take a moment to consider what could have led her to have an affair.

Her crappy character.

You most likely do not know the story of her marriage, and you do not know what sins were committed by both parties.

Chumps don’t compel cheaters to cheat on them. Infidelity is entirely on the cheater. See “therapy, divorce lawyers, separation agreements” above. You didn’t do those things, ergo, you suck. I’m sorry.

If she does make it work with the man she had an affair with, good for her. Maybe her ex has forgiven her and she has forgiven herself. Maybe she has asked God for forgiveness and she is working to mend that relationship as well.

Well as long as you’ve forgiven yourself! We’re all good! And Jesus forgave you too?

As the saying goes, it’s always better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

As for her and her new man, the best they can do is listen to their hearts and trust one another. Here’s hoping the love 40 and I have for one another will be enough to weather the storm we created. I am looking forward to calmer days ahead.

Claire, you were a piece of ass to this guy. Will he “listen to his heart” and trust you to “weather the storm”? I sincerely doubt it. Unless you’re of use to him — does he need a sofa to sleep on? Are you 20 years younger than he is? Do you have a trust fund?

Is he creepy? Did you meet him on Craigslist? Do you really want this guy around your children? Because pervy pedophiles prey on single mothers. Or is he just a run of the mill douchebag who sleeps with married women?

Get yourself in therapy, Claire. You’re not special or exceptional. You’re an idiot who threw away her marriage and intact family for a fantasy. Your marriage was difficult? Now, you’re looking at single motherhood with three kids. Your stock is not going to trade highly. The dream is evaporating and shit’s about to get very real.

Best of luck.

This column ran previously.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Sigh! The justification is simply stunning. I shake my head at the thought that mr. 40 is going to be so out of this situation that Claire’s head is going to spin. I personally will be glad if he puts her through hell. Cheaters suck!!!! No excuses!!

  • Cheaters are like snakes Claire, you know why? Because snakes can get so low they always win at the emotional and mental limbo.

    • Very good analogy deepn, I’m going to write this one down. I have a journal for writing messages, quotes or thoughts I find helpful and inspiring. Whenever I begin to feel anxious, hopeless, lost, loosing my mind, longing for the “old days” (cringe), Cheater bullshit, going back and reading what I’ve written have helped me maintain my sanity and think logically. Particularly helpful for those struggling with NC. Someone here on CN posted the idea originally.. Extremely helpful for me.

  • I can’t help but think all cheaters think this way. Their love is special. I don’t have much more to say other than they are idiots.

    • Ditto! Don’t they see reality? Everyone I tell about my xW leaving me for a high school boyfriends just laughs. They are pathetic.

    • Agreed. They all DO think this way: with the childish wisdom of a 21-year-old masquerading as an adult – so confused, emotional and intellectualizing their awful character.

    • Some of the texts/sexts I read between my husband 55, and his ho-worker 29, would have been hilarious if they didn’t involve me. Examples such as “Our love has been through so much, but it will last” and “We will be great together” or ” I have so much living to do” Or “Cum fill me up” Barf – It was dialogue from a bad teen romance/pulp novel.

      Deep down these are pathetically weak people looking for validation outside themselves.

      Most disturbing is that Huffington Post ( the endless need for internet content) makes it possible for this garbage to reach the general public

  • Dear Claire,
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
    You slay me! This is hilarious! How the UBT did that with a straight semiconductor is beyond me.

    Oh, all those maybes, aren’t they cute! Maybe all of those things but most likely NOT! So where does everyone think Claire is now?

    • AOK, well perhaps Claire might be have a child like my EX’S whore is in a few days. Not that she is 23 and he 53, nah not an oops, but pure love. I am sure a baby will silodify the relationship! Cakewalk!
      Like someone wrote, owhore will be changing baby diapers then his.

      • JeanM, my STBX sent thousands of dollars to a teenaged Filipino whore who is his twu wuv. She’s 16. He’s 54. They’ve never met (unless seeing her with stuff in her holes on an iPad screen is “meeting”)

        Anyway, on D-day, I read many of their texts. In one, he declares, “I want to fill your belly with babies and change diapers for the rest of our lives.”

        My first reaction: ewww. My second reaction: what a loathsome person he is. HOW can he not see that sex-trafficked, teenaged girls anywhere would not welcome that declaration from a fat, drunk, balding American man.

        It really helps me see how insensitive and selfish and delusional he is.

        Why didn’t I see this earlier? Arghhh.

        • Roaring,
          I think this will make you feel some better. I lived on a small island off the coast of Thailand for a time called Koh Chang. These fat, drunk, balding American men would come in and have “relationships” with young Thai girls. GIRLS. I would watch these men, dropping cash like it was monopoly money, buying condos, mopeds, and feasts for extended Thai families.
          These American prizes never looked my way, which was fine, but I was openly hostile to them in the market or street. The British owner of the place I was staying one day saw my behavior and said, Just wait.
          One day, I saw one of the American men who had bought the largest villa for his “GIRL” get picked up in a taxi. He had some luggage, probably going to get his visa renewed. Who knows.
          The dust had not settled on the road, and a moped roars up. It was his “GIRL”‘s REAL husband, a Thai man.
          He moved in lock, stock and barrel. They had parties day and night, and the Thai husband drank American’s dumb asses beer, ate his food, soiled his sheets and partied like it was 1999. They all had a blast. Thai Girl was giddy and spoiled her Thai man with American dumb asses cash.
          One day, Thai husband and entourage left. After lunch, American dumb ass was back, hanging all over the GIRL (he is basically a pedophile) and strutting like a cock of the walk. All the Thai locals were laughing at him. He had no idea. Thai GIRL just smiled, unrepentant and the great long game continued until he will be broke. Once the money is gone, those smiling Thai eyes turn to stone and things can get ugly fast.

          I hope your ex goes to the Philippines and sees who and what he wants to have babies with….Switzerland it is not. Once the money runs out, he will get his walking papers, a shake down, a beat down or worse.
          I am so sorry that happened to you. I am happy you found out about his grotesque behaviors and can escape this freak.

        • I lived in the Philippines and have friends who still do. SabineSavoy is telling a story that is extremely common in Asia, rampant in the Philippines. It’s disgusting, the fat, balding, grey, men sitting on barstools with their fat asses hanging over the sides and huge beer bellies hanging over their pants, wearing tank tops and leacherous smiles, right SabineSavoy? There’s nothing more repulsive. Very young girls will do anything for their money. Looking for marriage then counting the days until this disgusting excuse for a human being croaks.
          These young girls will be more than comfortable in the Philippines for the rest of their lives on the life insurance they will receive. Personally I think the men are all pediphiles and should be arrested and thrown in jail. Sadly it’s been common for many, many years.

          • We had a neighbor who was a local middle school teacher. He retired from teaching, at approx. 50 years old. He moved to Thailand and married a young girl who was 14. He was so proud he’d send photos of his child bride to my parents of them both together, “smiling,” it was one of the most pathetic sites I have ever seen. Big fat ugly balding man with a pretty 14 year old child. I don’t know how he had the nerve to send photos of himself with her. He would come back to the states and drop my parents house and again bring out photos of him and his child/wife. He apparently thought he had done something to be proud of. Another thought which I found disturbing is that he taught young girls who were the same age for a very long time. Yuck! Roaring he will look and be just as pathetic as these men we have described. Very poor countries, they are the ones who are being taken advantage of but are too foolish to know. Inevitably they age, get sick, usually sooner than the average person their age, the heat, their lifestyle of drinking and or smoking, the medical care isn’t as advanced so the odds of them dying sooner than later are in the young girls favor then these girls are set with a very comfortable income for the rest of their lives. American money goes a very long way in countries like the Philippines. It should be very entertaining for you now that you know what the reality is of his life is and what the future holds for him.

  • Since my arrival here at the Chump Nation about a month ago this has to be my favourite post yet. My XW had an affair with a man I mistook for a (good) friend. He left his partner of 25 years and she left me and our son (then aged 11) and now live with each other. I remember at the time telling her that her new relationship was doomed before it started because the only thing they really knew about each other was their capacity for deceit. I used to long for the day when their relationship would fall apart but at some point I began to realise that maybe their relationship will last longer than I had originally hoped for. Maybe they are stuck with each other because there might be a shortage of would-be chumps out there – and that this was not a bad thing at all. So it’s a win-win for me as far as I can see. I wish I could express it all as well as CL though:

    “Because there is no more perfect karma than for two cheaters to wind up together, making each other miserable in perpetuity with the little slings and arrows of their shittiness.”

    “It’s such a funny question though — you just want to know if it can LAST. Well, plenty of things endure. Doesn’t mean they’re healthy and happy though.”

    And that is so true. I mean how happy can her new dream life be if she follows and then unfollows (on Twitter) new friends that I meet? That’s not the behaviour of a person in a happy and healthy relationship is it?

    Thank you, Chump Lady for saying “What oft was thought, but ne’er so well expressed”

    All hail to the Chump Nation!

    • My thoughts are in the beginning of a relationship built on the excitement of deceit there’s going to be the honeymoon phase along with the added “we will show them phase”. We will show them what “love” is and we were meant to be. What is forgotten by Cheaters is when they began their relationship with their Chump they were in “love” at one time. One time meaning before life set in, kids, bills, families, illness, resentments.
      Did I say resentment? plural, resentments? annoyances and we all know what that means to a Cheater,
      time to do something or someone, they’re going to find someone who appreciates them damn it. Cheaters tire of restrictions, get bored, being asked to take out the trash. Cheaters have no substance. Eventually the sparkle fades, everything that they adored about their affair partner isn’t so adorable and is now actually annoying.., and we all know what that means and it isn’t compromise. It’s the cute 23 year old secretary or the exciting, adventurous guy that’s married to my best friend. Cheaters are rarely happy forever.

      • Brit

        The we will show them phase was a united front to make me pay for what I don’t know. So it’s not just about the cheating, it’s about knocking the wind out of us. They attempted to push me further over the edge. The harassment, belittling, public displays of affection, and triangulation attempts went on for a year.

        While he never contacted me directly he made me out to be the enemy. For fucks sale I told her I just wanted to be left alone and that’s why I filed. She was surprised. He NEVER told her I was the one who filed. Wow.

      • @brit

        That was a great post to read when I start to get hooked into fear that she’s better. I forgot these logical things when my emotions begin to overwhelm me.

        My ex accused me of being emotionally abusive to him and that my mental health issues (that I had been treating with IC before their supposed beginning date) were impacting his mental health. He also said that he didn’t tell me about the affair (until she put her foot down) because he was concerned about how that would impact my mental health.

        I’m pretty sure that a pregnancy announcement will come; when things get dull.

        And because they both claim to be polyamorous; they will get to redefine cheating.

        I personally don’t want them to last; I want them to ecperience with each other how they treated me: they seem to think that that was legitimately fair and respectful treatment.

      • This is where I’m at. My stbx met his ow on Ashley Madison. Apparently he was trying to break it off (I’ve heard) but I caught him and kicked his pathetic ass out. Everyone was disgusted with him except the Internet whore and so he had no one left but her and she was in hot pursuit. Now he is out in the world trying to sell this as legit. Telling our kids “we just get along better than mom and I” “we have more in common.” My daughter looked me square in the eye and said “Of course they do Mom, she doesn’t expect anything from him.” Lucky for me I was no longer in love with him so I know one day I will see this as my golden ticket but some days it really sucks.
        PS My first post.

    • “the only thing they really knew about each other was their capacity for deceit” well said Limey Chump!

  • Ugh, I couldn’t even get halfway through this. It’s not you, CL, your analysis is spot on as always, I just didn’t have the brainspace to read Claire’s stuff right now.

    • CL is a safety rope, life jacket and coast guard rescue ship when we are drowning in a putrid sea of moral relativism. I love “shit’s about to get very real.”
      Isn’t it disgusting how cheaters state…”they fell in love.” As if love were not a verb…A CHOICE someone makes. A man is walking along and his dick falls into another woman! I have no idea how that happened. It is a choice. Flirting is asking a question, and the cheater answers back YES.
      CL’s brilliant line keeps me going:

      TRUST THAT THEY SUCK.

      Claire’s post is really a smoke screen to cover up what she knows: She sucks.

  • Ah, Claire? Whether he (or you) cheats again is irrelevant. What you’ve got here are two selfish people with shitty character. You chose to cheat on your husband and children (kids are NOT that resilient) with a man who was willing to bang a married woman with three children. Doesn’t bode well for the future, does it? I’ll bet you both have the attention span of a three-year-old which is not a plus in long term relationships.

    Marriages that work involve two people who decide to be allies and not self-centered assholes who only look out for number one. These people do the right thing for their families despite being bored or “in limbo”. They know they are part of something – not the sun which others in their family should revolve around.

    I think you and Mr. 40 (what does that stand for – dollars to his name?) are a perfect match but a marriage between you spoiled brats will be a disaster. I think so many marriages end with cheating because opposites attract. The disordered of this world see someone who has all the character they lack and they want to latch onto him or her so that they are decent by association. But that mask always slips at some point, doesn’t it?

    • “The disordered of this world see someone who has all the character they lack and they want to latch onto him or her so that they are decent by association. But that mask always slips at some point, doesn’t it?”

      So, so well put! It is almost always about saving face and outward appearances with them! My ex used to describe me as a “do-gooder” whenever anyone would ask him what I did for a living. Far be it from him to actually understand or articulate what that meant, but hey it made him look good by association. Cheaters are shallow, childish, and stupid. Chasing a fantasy like this is so incredibly short-sighted. Ex is still with his ho-worker, but I know that they aren’t happy. They may appear happy on the outside, but I am sure deep-down they know that he is only staying with her to save face and appear as if he didn’t leave a perfectly wonderful soul in order to be with a 26 yo, stalker, legal assistant with less character than I have in a single cell of my pinky fingernail. Even if they get married and stay together forever, I know that they aren’t happy. Happiness for them is fleeting because they lack the depth to truly feel it. I used to be eager for the day when this would all blow up in their faces, but I now see that the perfect situation is for them to stay together, locked in this relationship of superficial necessity causing them both utter misery.

      • Yup, this. I am convinced ex will stick this one out to prove it was true love. He does not understand happiness, it has to come from within.
        His family has told me how miserable he is, I think to make me feel better. I could care less (i only care about how his current life affects my kids)

      • LMAO This Chump medicated for your protection, but I think you give her impulse control abilities far too much credit, I would bet on “40 and 2 1/2 weeks.”

    • I thought 40 was his age. She slyly implied her age is 30 (referring to 9 years ago when she got married at 21). The implication that the ten year age gap is a special sparkly part of their kink. Blech.
      I like uneffingbelievable’s comment above…’marriages that work involve two people who decide to be allies, not self-centred assholes who only look out for number one’. Really sums it up. I’ve just past the 60 day milestone since The Parting. My cheater ex was a lot like Claire…all about his emotional limbo, making me the enemy to justify his selfish actions, not a hint of ‘allies’ anywhere in his thoughts or feelings toward me or our relationship. It was always all about him. Meh. I need meh.

      • Free, sending you love and best wishes on your journey to meh. Those early days were difficult. For two years I was pretty much a basket case, my ex was in his forties, Lol. Your ex needs to devalue you and your past together so his crap character and crap choices make sense. What the fuck, right!?!? We all get to meh here, even though the journey is hard. We were “all in,” committed to our families, loved with all our naive authentic hearts, and were blindsided by our Cheater’s poor choices. This blog saved me…as I am sure it will you.

  • It’s the cheater fantasy wrapped up in the excitement of making a better life with a partner who is untrustworthy.

    When I married at 21, had three children, a dog and a husband with a substance abuse problem I did all the hard work. Cheating never entered my mind. We worked together on his substance abuse and he quit drinking.

    Excitement for me was getting a part time job, negotiating my children’s tuition at a private school, voulenteering as lunch mother, and baking cookies for bake sales. It was planning unique birthday parties with painting, pie eating contests, and learning how to cook vegan for my child. It was being greatful for my 500.00 car with a muffler hanging. It was teaching my children values. Yes, Susie’s family can spend 80,000 on a new kitchen but we get to eat on grandmas antique table together.

    Substance abuse was the least of my problems. While I worked, he played. I married a boy who like you Claire, justified his actions as exciting.

    As fior the fairy tale ending? I can see where he ended up once the excitement of cheating while hiding in the life I build ended. I have a theory about putting your energies into an authentic life. Those of us who do the hard work survive because we are the workers. We were always doing the heavy lifting. Cheaters continue to seek out fantasies for excitement. What a shallow existence.

    When I attended my daughters college graduation we celebrated and took pictures as he slithered away unable to join our celebration. You see Claire I did forgive myself. My lack of forgiving him keeps him segregated into that dark place he valued. He can never join our authentic life again.

    • “I have a theory about putting your energies into an authentic life. Those of us who do the hard work survive because we are the workers. We were always doing the heavy lifting. Cheaters continue to seek out fantasies for excitement. What a shallow existence.”

      Doing me…I think this describes why (despite the pain) nowdeadcheater was eaten away by his many hidden sins while I was able to regroup and rebuild…I knew how to do the work and I had something to build on.

      He chased fantasies as his way of self medicating depression and self doubt (Im guessing that nothing boosts ones ego like sex with a coworker, but I have yet to test my theory) but its a pesky thing to forget that chasing fantasies will ruin and rot the good, pure and real stuff you have at home waiting for you.

        • Question: how long does anyone think the train-wreck “addictive fantasy” of a 65/25 will last? Yea, I thought so. Just checking.

          • Unless the 65 year old has a lot of money and leaves all of it to her in a will that she witnesses him writing and then witnesses it being notarized, I’m going to guess as long as the attention span of the average 25 year old.

            What’s the over/under? I’d take the under in almost any scenario!

        • Yes indeed, Amiisfree! If I hadn’t been addicted to fantasy I’d never have married Henry VIII. Our subsequent detonation helped cure me. I’ll take the real thing, any day. Those fantasies, they do tend to blow up in your face.

      • Unicornomore

        Exactly, and these bimbos like Claire aren’t lacking in the ability to do the right thing by their husband and children, they justify this shit. It is not a weakness, its is a choice. All those years the Limited cheated with other women was not to cure what ailed him as if I was the cause. He wasn’t battling demons, he was the demon.

    • “I have a theory about putting your energies into an authentic life. Those of us who do the hard work survive because we are the workers. We were always doing the heavy lifting. Cheaters continue to seek out fantasies for excitement. What a shallow existence.”

      Standing ovation, Doingme!!! Brilliant.

      Like you, I centered my life on marriage, family, community. He left because he wanted more fun and excitement, despite still telling me he was still in love with me and I was his best friend. I used to try to figure out how the two halves of that sentence could possibly fit together. You described it perfectly — cheaters seek out fantasies because the fun of real life is tempered by responsibilities, but the fun of affairs/casual sex has no such limitations.

      And since my happiness was always derived from authentic sources…I’ll be fine.

    • >>>>>>I have a theory about putting your energies into an authentic life. Those of us who do the hard work survive because we are the workers. We were always doing the heavy lifting. Cheaters continue to seek out fantasies for excitement. What a shallow existence. <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>He wasn’t battling demons, he was the demon.<<<<<<<<<<
      Yes, @doingme , YESSSS!!!!

      I truly thought I was the only one that felt & thought this way about The Evil One. He is all about himself and his needs/wants/desires and had me so wrapped up in worrying about keeping him happy that I lost myself for a while…I just kept working full-time, full-time parenting, housework, never had time for myself and even if I did, I was chastised for not doing X, Y, Z around the house…it really, really sucked and he sucks even more.

      He's almost 38 married to Mrs. Dumb-Ass, who is about 10-11 years younger than him, has a host of medical issues as well as mental issues, but oh well- she married him after knowing him less than 6 months- enjoy wiping asses, kid! I'm not just talking about your toddler either. Whatever you told your friends, your family, yourself when you were "dating" him while we were still married I'm sure will come back to haunt you in days to come.

      I don't know if it will last another 5 years, 5 months, or hell, even 5 weeks. He will still be an evil lying, cheating, thieving bastard and she will be a twice-divorced, single mom of 2 kids in her mid-20's. Good luck with that. I, on the other hand, will be over here like, "Hello from MEH-topia!!!!"

    • Such wisdom here! I married Shallow. It just took me a while to figure out there was absolutely nothing there. I was the only one working at my marriage. The only one who loved our children. The only one who knew how good he had it….

  • Aging narc serial cheaters are pathetic as they age. The supply dwindles with age and they have to face the reality.

    The Limited was dating and settled for a needy whore who brings nothing to the table. He prefered that to beauty, intelligence, loyalty. Kindness, and family. Once given the opportunity to keep what they so desired (by divorcing them) things aren’t so exciting.

    On the other hand WE are no longer in limbo.

  • My ex-wife had plenty of Mr. 40’s who told her what she wanted to hear. She even found and married a Mr. 40 who was 40 pounds overweight and had a 40 pound wallet. That spectacular love and marriage lasted less than two years with Mr. 40 when he discovered she was banging another Mr. 40.

    Cheater marriages cannot handle blended families, cannot handle the drop in excitement after the honeymoon period, cannot handle the mundane routine of day in day reality.

    Chances are, Claire’s Mr. 40 and her three kids and three dogs are not going to have much of a honeymoon period.

    I’ve noticed how cheaters talk like 14 year olds who are in Looove and resent those judgy parents who tell them to clean their room and take a shower.

    • So right PF. My cheater is marrying #4 (that I know of) this summer. He has three kids that HATE her and will not set foot in her house (they are living in a house that her father bought them around the corner from our marital home). I cannot imagine what kind of father would do such a thing to his kids and be willing to live life without them in it.

      Cheaters acting like 14yo’s really resonates with me. My ex was like a rebellious teenager and I always felt more like her parent than her partner toward the end. Guess that’s what they call the fabled “mid-life crisis”.

      • Oops! That was confusing. I meant to say that my ex and #4 live in a house that ex’s father bought. #4’s kids live with their mother.

      • During the special hell of in-house separation, I referred to XHole as a petulant teen. What with all the door slamming, eye rolling, “you can’t tell me what to do”, sneaking out in the middle of the nite ….

      • You’re so right. Sometimes I just wanted to hit him in the back of the head with a shovel and yell, “Be a fucking man, not my teenager.” I still would mind the whole head-shovel thing, but I don’t care how he acts.

  • Mr. Sparkles left for someone 10 years younger with two kids, but a RICH DADDY! He sees the big picture. But, oh, that pesky little thing called “Cause of Action = Adultery” and the Adult Friend Finder ad… and we’re going to trial because I am MIGHTY. Yup, as CL said, “Shit’s about to get real.”

    Have MIGHTY day Chump Nation!

  • Let me share what I found out about my cheater and his fuck buddy. I am not a techie wiz, but I really think these emotionally stunted idiots are lacking some serious IQ points:

    At DDay, I kept my discovery quiet per the counsel of my attorney. I collected “discovery”. One piece was the FB password of my cheater’s RectumOfWonder (ROW). Why she gave that to him is forever lost in trickle truth. Anyhow, I already had identified her email address and so, I logged into her account. Wowsa!

    ROW, the special butterfly, was fucking her husband’s best friend and actively flirting with many former fuckbuddies. Cause you know, nothing screams validation more than many dudes wanting ROW and ploughing her ass. She was, and most likely still is, spreading her specialness with MANY during her time of special ‘love’ with the asshole I was married to. Totally in parallel! My cheater and her had had a DECADE long fuckfest complete with “anniversaries”, pet names, traditions etc…

    So about a month later when I couldn’t take his blatant lies and theft any longer, I outed the asshole. When I brought up, and this is the ONLY tidbit of his cheating I shared, his ROW was cheating on him….well the look on his face was PRICELESS! The point of this narrative is: cheaters who cheat with cheaters will always cheat, lie and steal. Asshole could not believe that for all of the super sparkly specialness of the relationship with ROW, that she was fucking other dudes-including her husband’s best friend! Because, ya know according to ROW’s mantra, LIVE!LAUGH!LOVE!

    • Shit! My ex used to love those sappy slogans and had little placards of them all over the place. GAG!

      LIVE!LAUGH!LOVE!

      Wouldn’t it be fun to replace these with ones like LIE!CHEAT!STEAL! overnight somehow? So she would wake up the next day and find them? HA!

      Sorry that doesn’t sound very meh (even though I really am). Just thought of the idea and it gave me a chuckle.

    • The MOW in my case is another one of those with a Pinterest site smothered in hearts, sparkles, and inspirational sayings. Her favorite was “Live the Life you love, love the life you live.” Squeeeee! She also liked to post memes that subtlety shamed anyone who judged her because they “didn’t know the full story.” Yeah.

      Her absolute favorite quote is, “Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you’ve never been hurt and live like it’s heaven on Earth.” Real original bitch, this one . . .

      • Rumblekitty – she should add “Fuck Like No One Is Married” to her little repertoire. What an asshole.

          • Yup, another one that has managed to outwit “karma”. One of the common traits of cheaters and or narcs is how they think they are so special that karmic rules do not apply to them, just everyone else. Completely delusional

        • Sounds like a great idea for a posting on CL. Creative chumps – come up with cheater life slogans!

          “LIE!CHEAT!STEAL!”
          “Fuck Like No One Is Married”

          Has this been done and I missed it?

          • TwinsDad – how about “Two, Four, Six Eight! We all like to fornicate! Cheaters! Cheaters! Yaaaayyy CHEATERS!”

              • I think I need to learn how to make my own memes . . . like “Jesus forgave me. Why can’t you?!?”

              • RK – there is a way to do it – just not sure how to post them here. I’ll investigate and see what I can do! It’ll be so fun!

      • That line is in the song Nowadays in the musical Chicago.

        You can like the life you’re livin’
        You can live the life you like
        You can even marry Harry
        But mess around with Ike
        And that’s good

        But we all know how Roxie Hart ended up…

  • “I know this is not the most popular opinion to hold. Infidelity is typically met with a great deal of opinion and judgment, and very rarely are any exceptions made in regards to how the general public views a “cheater”.”

    —This sentence in particular galls me, as it represents the sad-sausage lurking in every cheater. They are judged!!! Misunderstood!!! NOT. Actually, I find modern society quite happy to believe that cheating is not such a big deal and that exceptions need to be made for almost any excuse a cheater can manufacture–the marriage was over anyway, I was so unhappy,—blah, blah, blah. CN knows the drill. But far be it from a cheater to miss an opportunity to herald that they have been wronged by society’s attitudes.

    • FindingBliss

      She wants to be the exception to society’s attitudes. Opinions and judgement shouldn’t reign down on her. After all…bla…bla..bla…

    • I agree that society doesn’t see cheating as a big deal. It is one of the thing that bugs me the most, that the skank ex cheated with has moved to and walks around my small-ish town with no apparent shame or remorse, and has been welcomed by many who know who she is

    • I took exception to this line as well. For some reason, it made me think of folks who are dogmatic about some quirk of child-rearing. Like lets say co-sleeping. Betty lets it be known that co-sleeping is her thing. You make it known that co-sleeping is not something your comfortable with and will not be doing it. Most people say OK, but Betty insists on sending you articles. So you say “Betty, look, I just not into cosleeping. My pediatrician advised against it and it doesn’t work us.” But Betty lectures and brings it up every time she sees you. She sends you links to a place where you can get a cosleeping attachment for your bed. She directs you to her blog where she extols the virtues of cosleeping, and eventually you some post about how SOME people have been poisoned by the Western establishment as to the virtues of cosleeping and why does society not understand that some mothers are actually careful researchers and not just freaks who embrace anything good and natural. If Betty was actually secure in her feelings about cosleeping, she would not be that upset by the occasional person who said “meh, not my thing”.

      Claire strikes me as this type. Yeah, some people have a point of view that “Cheaters, kinda garbage people. I don’t have a lot of time for them”. It’s not a big deal Claire. We all have our “thing” that is a non-starter for us. For some people, particularly those who have been victimized by your type, we are not really open to persuasion. If you were really confident in your choice. If you had really owned the outcome of this choice, both good and bad… then you would be able to say “I understand. It’s a tough issue”. You would be tending to your children and your dogs, and your new relationship, and you would say “I get that starting a relationship with 40 before I was divorced was not the best choice and hurt some people. But my kids are thriving, and 40 and I seem to be getting along right now, and my finances are better… so yeah, there it is. But I get it, when you are hurt it can be hard to see beyond the actions.” But oohhhh nooo… she needs the validation that what she did was actually OK and she WILL make you see that you are wrong because she is special and you are just an uptight freak. Meh, cheaters Clair.. not my thing.

  • Ex used exactly the same phrase about his cowhort. “I’ve always bee Madly in Love with Whore”. This is after a couple of years completely lying about it to me. This great love was so important that he took great risks and overcame great obstacles (wife, marriage) to be with her. Oh, the sacrifice! The texts! The emails! The lengthy phone calls! The ocassional greeting card or cheap gift! The begging for lunch dates , and free ass, I’m sure. Whether he got it, who knows. He can’t prove he didn’t I can’t prove he did. He even contacted an online divorce attorney, once.

    The thing is, he never took one legitimate action to be with his True Love. Not one. He never voluntarily spent one night away from home. Still had sex with his wife. Yes, it disgusts me, too. He never did anything except pull up to the cake buffet. That is what 99% of cheaters do. They are at least smart enough to know this isn’t true love. It will not work. Two cheaters don’t make a non cheater, Claire. That’s not even good math.

    • This was exactly my X. For all his professed love for OW, he went out of his way to be with her, well, never. No overnight stays, no cards, no flowers, no expressions of commitment. He did buy her coffee, but that was only because they would rendezvous at coffee shop for his quickie BJ’s! Now, this was a man who had the means to provide her with lavish gifts and I am sure she was hoping to get her hands on his cash, but I don’t think he so much as bought her dinner. But she was so sure that she was going to get her hands on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Silly woman, she should have known that the only person X considered worthy of his largess was himself! The joke really on her when X bailed the minute he thought she might hurt his bottom line. Anyone who believes that an affair is going to end in butterflies and rainbows is delusional.

      • Wow, Violet, that’s the cheapest blowjob I’ve ever heard of. She wouldn’t date someone who was single that cheaply , for sure. The “look at their actions, not at their words” statement goes for the whores , too. Why buy the whore, when you can get the bj for free? The dumb bitches don’t get it that they are being used. To listen to their boring babble, for Cheap sex, just in general. They are actually flattered. How stupid can you get?

    • Anita,
      Your story is same with mine. My cheater found her true love and the married AP found his true love, but neither ever took any concrete action towards that other that just knowing a truer love never existed.

      This suggests two things:

      1. these cheaters actually have pretty good lives, pretty good spouses, and they aren’t willing to give them up and face the consequences of disrupting a good thing
      2. these cheaters are selfish, entitled, crappy humans who lack empathy for the good spouses that support them
      3. these cheaters will only act if drastic, severe consequences are imposed, and that is a permanent condition, so even if there is a temporary reconciliation underway, the good spouse must keep that hammer of consequence raised and ready forever, not just a few months or years
      4. these cheaters are afraid of true intimacy, true connection – the kind that pays bills together and cleans toilets together and then can still keep ones eyes open during sex in the marital bedroom (as opposed to an hour in a 4 star hotel now and then)

      OK, that’s 4 things, and I could go on … 🙂

  • At least this: “Planning an affair.” I have to say, first and only time I’ve seen a cheater cop to that little fact.

  • I find society has blank check excuses for cheaters:

    “You don’t know what was going on inside the marriage.”
    “There had to be reasons for the affair.”
    “The chump HAD to have done something to deserved the cheating.”

    Blame the victim, turn a blind eye to the suffering of children and families… because “WE” don’t want to be too uncomfortable, now, would we?

    • This was what jumped out at me, too. CL’s statement that the Chump doesn’t make the cheater cheat rings in my head. Doesn’t matter if I am a total ogre, that still doesn’t force you to cheat. If you cheat, that is 100% on you.

      But this is, I think, what motivates cheaters to vilify Chumps; painting the Chump as the enemy justifies the cheating for them AND makes it more exciting.

      Toddlers in large bodies with big vocabularies.

  • If I had a high amount of disposable income, I would go to Vegas and lay wager that the Kunty Kibbler has saved this article and used it to tell her story.

    If I didn’t know much she sucks at writing, I’d go further and suggest that she may well have written it under the ‘Claire’ pseudonym,

    Seriously, I stopped dead in my tacks walking to work while reading this on my phone when I saw the bit about cheating because ‘the marriage was essentially over.’ I heard this over and over and over again as a justification for her actions. Then why didn’t she do the right thing walk away with honesty and integrity, like a person of character would do?

    Because she had nothing to fall back on to cushion the blow. Because she doesn’t have the capacity to ‘own’ her actions or decisions and needs a way to shift focus away from her.

    Because she is a fucking coward in every sense of the word.

      • “Another variation: I haven’t been happy for a long time.” Wow. Those were my XW’s words, verbatim. Except she added a second “long” for good measure. I stared at her, stunned, and stupidly (but truthfully) stammered, “But-but-you always told me how happy you were and how lucky you were that I was your husband! You just told me that last month! I have the cards! The notes! The letters!” She looked at me with an expression so frightening I will never forget it: narrowed eyes, utter cold contempt. The dead eyes of a complete stranger. Yet it still took me another eight months to file, as I actually believed her in my desperation.

        • My X told me he loved me every. single. day. So yeah – I can relate. I pretty much thought I had a fantastic marriage and then boom, I didn’t.

          I wish he would have told me he wasn’t happy a lot sooner, but hey . . . . the cake must have been delicious.

          • Mine said he loved me multiple times a day until all of a sudden he didn’t. Then he said he’d never been happy, he just never realised it. His new true love lasted 9 months…

        • Cold contempt. That’s it. And the fact that you caught her in yet another lie that maybe she hadn’t yet thought of an excuse to work her way out of yet.

        • David, my ex also was telling me I was his best friend, he was happy, our marriage was good, right up until Dday. Then it changed to we never should have gotten married, we never had a thing in common, he’d been miserable the whole time, blah blah blah.

          I know exactly what you mean about the cold, dead stare. That’s when you see the demon hiding inside what you thought to be a loving spouse.

          • Before I knew about his infidelity, my Dr. Strangelove announced that I had killed our love over a decade before so that in his mind he didn’t feel married to me. I never got that memo so I foolishly assumed since he was still acting like my husband for all that time that we were married. When I begged him to tell me what I had done 10 years ago to kill our love he couldn’t really give me an answer. I of course played the “pick me dance” hoping I could fix “our love”. They rewrite history to support their treachery!

            • My ex said almost the same thing. In the Divorce Letter, he recounted a story that happened ten years ago that I of course don’t remember (I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but I have no memory of it.) He said, “Something in me died that night.” Oh, poor sad sausage. It didn’t matter to him that “something in me died” when I found out that he was going to Canada at least ten times for naked lap dances (and probably more now that I found out that strip clubs in Canada are like brothels). And something in me died when he had an affair when I was pregnant with our second child. And something in me died when he pushed me up against a cement wall and yelled in my face. I could go on and on about the many deaths he caused me over the years. Yeah, I didn’t “get the memo” either that he was unhappy. HE SURE SEEMED HAPPY TO ME! But now he rewrites history and says he wasn’t happy, but “didn’t know it.” He sucks, he sucks, he sucks.

        • Ah David, my stomach clenched reading that. I remember holding my cell phone up to my ex on D-Day and saying: “I don’t understand. I have messages from you yesterday, last week last month and last year in which you are telling me how much you love me. How could you have been cheating on me for all that time? Why aren’t you acting like you are sorry or care?”

          Cold dead eyed stare. That was not my husband, who was this man? I remember running upstairs and getting sick in the bathroom.

          • Kelly,

            Me too. I started crying reading David’s post. I had a few vivid recollections of my cheater telling me how glad she was to have me as her husband. I have many memories of us together holding hands, driving home from the hospital with a new born in the back seat, both of us so happy to have each other and our family.

            Then the revisionist history after the affair and you get so twisted you can’t remember what is or was real?

            now i’m getting angry as tears stream down my face …

        • I will never forget those eyes David. Exasshole followed it up with a gun, I’m so glad I got away. the day of the gun is when I saw those eyes, it’s scary as hell to realize you lived with someone for years and never really knew them. Jedi Hugs!

        • My ex said to me, “I haven’t been happy in ten years, BUT I DIDN’T KNOW IT.” WTF? He even said to me, “You never took good care of me.” Jerk! All untrue, but like I’ve read above — they have to demonize us and rewrite history in order to make them look like the victim and also to justify their cheating. He sucks!

      • My ex told our son “this has been coming for a long time.” I had so many anxiety attacks when I remembered he said that, because I kept thinking “how could I not have known if it was coming for a long time?”

      • It’s all Monday-morning quarterbacking. They were happy until their genitals were being stimulated by someone new. And then they weren’t. Yawn.

        • You’re so wrong. It was a love so great it was beyond their control! A passion of biblical proportions! I couldn’t stand in the way of that.

          That and the blowjobs in the front seat of his car were pretty great too I’m sure . . .

        • Amen, Tempest. My ex was happy as a fucking clam, in general, with our marriage, and with me. Then, when Ms. High Moraled Wonder Crotch showed her true self, which was the fact that he was more interesting to her as a married man than he ever was as a single one, and that he could get free non commitment requiring ass on the side , suddenly he’d “never been happy” , although he certainly wasn’t unhappy enough to LEAVE, divorce, get the fuck away from me…

          • Tempest, right on! It’s all about the genital stimulation which determines their happiness. Pathetic idiots.

    • “We were getting a divorce anyway”. News to me, what with him planning a trip abroad to renew our vows 2 weeks prior to Dday.

      • WTF is it with cheaters renewing their vows? Haven’t a bunch of you had cheaters who wanted to do that?

        • Oh yes we actually did it–central park on the exact day of our 30th anniversary. 4 years of epic abuse followed before d-day..

          • Yep, speaking of renewing marriage vows, I had kept all his really romantic notes and cards over the years, and threw all of them away immediately, with great anger.
            But, one short one said – I love you so much; let’s renew our wedding vows!- From about 12 yrs ago.
            I don’t even remember getting that one and I flippantly threw it in the trash with all the other ‘sentimental’ notes.
            No doubt it was after he had an affair, now that I know what I know now.

            pffft.

            • My XW was so deeply fucked up she wanted to renew our wedding vows–WHILE she was still actively in the affair and mere months after informing me how unhappy she had been in our marriage. What a healthy extra serving of cake THAT would have been. I divorced her. She is marrying the OM. He has no idea. Or maybe he does? My theory is that he must indeed have moments where a thought flashes through his mind–“What the fuck have I done marrying this person?”–and then he spackles with a healthy slathering of blaming me for their unhappiness, and clings to his prize.

            • With my xhole, it was ALL for show. He could tell all his friends how he took the lucky little lady back to Jamaica for our anniversary. And could toss it in my face how it was HIS idea to renew our vows. More fodder for him to show the whole world what a shiny, glitter covered turd he is. Oops, I mean thoughtful, loving husband.

  • Oh wow. And here I thought Festival of Popular Delusions Day wasn’t until Sunday. Early start, Claire?

    • Thanks for the vote of confidence, Amiisfree. But coming after the brilliant UBT is akin to the feeling W.C. Field had about following acts by children and animals–you just can’t compete. Instead, I’ve attempted a scholarly analysis of the defense mechanisms shown by Claire’s piece (by the way, I heard she has changed her name to “Destiny”-fitting, eh?)

      RATIONALIZATION: My H has a drinking problem!!! Do you know how hard that is to deal with? I have to assume responsibility for the kids full time and paying the bills, and sending his mother birthday presents! But, actually, I didn’t have time to do this because I found my tru lurv on Ashley Madison. I trained the kids how to make grilled cheese by themselves, so they wouldn’t starve while I was on dates.

      And before you accuse me of ignoring the buy-his-mother-a-gift, I DID pick out a Hermes scarf for the MIL, but my new boyfriend used it to tie me up during sex. #semenstains

      DENIAL: Claire/Destiny says, “I do think there is an exception though. I think that there are times, such as when your marriage is essentially over, and you are just in limbo mentally and emotionally, when a relationship that begins with an affair can end in a happy relationship.”
      –kind of speaks for itself

      PROJECTION: My husband sucks! I don’t suck! (see above “drinking problem”)

      SUBLIMATION: Claire/Destiny says, “Maybe she (a person who has had an affair) has asked God for forgiveness and she is working to mend that relationship as well.” = All good!! Without fucking strange, I wouldn’t have repaired my relationship with God. I made lemonade out of lemons, all you judgey people. And my case is so much more benign than other cases, so God had an easy time of it—after all, Jeffrey Dahmer found religion in prison and God had to forgive him for drugging and killing young men and dissolving their bones in acid. An eensy weensy affair—chump change (oops, didn’t mean to put it that way). I know God’s forgiveness of me and of Jeffrey Dahmer probably didn’t help the families of his victims, or salve my husband’s and children’s pain, but… God.

  • Oh, and Claire, you can never trust a cheater. God knows i tried. But I found that after his whoring was exposed, every single time we were around any other people, I was always “scanning” the room, looking for someone who could be his next potential fuck buddy. I had never done that with this guy. I thought he was decent and trusted him. Never again. Never.

    • This is so true. A woman I used to be friends with cheated on her husband years ago. Same ol’ lame excuse. They divorced. She is still with the guy. But she had a scare! She was at the gym and some woman had left a note for her cheater dude. She asked him about it and he said they were just friends. And she was like “whew!”. Pa-leese! THIS is how she empathized with ME when I found out my husband was cheating on me. And ironically, in the same way SHE cheated on HER husband…secret texting and all that. They were “just friends”. Bitch. She didn’t even get how thoughtless she was at the time. So, her ex remarried and is insanely happy, I am happily single and she, well, she is still with the cheater she chose. I don’t think she can bear to see my stuff on Facebook. She certainly doesn’t comment on my happy posts…all my new milestones. I kinda hope it eats at her.

      • Conniered, one thing I figured out is that even if my ex had got with this chick after me, and convinced me and the world, that they didn’t do anything “wrong” those two know the truth that they did do something wrong. She KNOWS he is a whore chaser while married. He KNOWS she entertains married men at her residence. They were not acting as friends, they were dating, and I’m going to add cause I believe it, fucking. They might can sell the lying horse shit to everyone on the planet and they both will always know what scum buckets each other are.

        • No Doubt Anita. These people KNOW what they are doing is wrong. Why else come up with all the lame excuses and blame-shifting.

          Funny, now that I think about it, “society will give a cheater a pass but immediately, the MINUTE they have have left and starts “dating” , the rumors fly that they were cheating. Why is it worse to date immediately AFTER two people have separated than while they were married!?!?!?!

  • When this column ran the first time, I remember being certain that my ex’s relationship with Wid-ho (the widow) wouldn’t last. As far as I know, they’re still together (he moved to her country to be with her). But I’m almost at meh so I don’t care. They both got what they deserve.

  • They’re all so special and unique, aren’t they? Like snowflakes. And their love is the kind of “evolved” love that will survive the years of lies and deceit while us unenlightened folk just continue to wallow around in our unhappy lives (i.e., reality) beneath them.

    Run of the mill affair with just a couple of run of the mill a-holes…..nah, not us….we’re chasing happiness…..but just make sure you make my car payment for me sweetie ’cause me and my boyfriend need a way to get around town.

    Bear in mind that these are adult men and women who actually think like this. So depressing.

  • As to how Claire and 40 can trust each other, they can’t. Cheaters never can. Real trust is based on character, doing what is right, etc. These two both know the other is a lying, cheating whore, make no mistake. They don’t admit that, and say they trust them. It’s all just ego talking really. “I’m so great, he/she would never cheat on me.”. That is just too funny….

  • Does anyone actually know someone who only cheated ONCE? I don’t.

    Even if the unicorn comes home, the likelihood that they will return to old habits is HUGE.
    Because it is a learned reaction to dealing with the daily doldrums of life, I’m afraid.

    • Magneto, good point! I think cheaters cheat several times. I haven’t met any where the cheating has only been once. It’s part of their character and you know what they say – the first time is the hardest, after that it gets easier and easier.

      • omgosh – great question, Magneto. Of course, it’s also one of the first things you ask yourself after d-day. Over and over and over. Hmmm..did he do it with Peggy, Randi, that co-workers from work years ago? And, I can think of more where there was an indication something was off. It never crossed my mind. So, I thought I caught him just the once, but my logical mind says, It Was Not The First Time He Cheated.

        And no, I can’t name one known cheater that stopped at one.

    • Well, my Cheater cheated WITH ME (no sex, “just” kissing) on his college girlfriend (this was 27 years ago.) I was stupid as I said to myself, “They aren’t married, so it’s no big deal.” I WAS WRONG! He was showing me his TRUE CHARACTER. He’s a cheater! And I was showing my bad character at the time. I shouldn’t have been kissing a guy that was having sex and dating another woman. And they dated for at least a year or two after we had our make-out session. So, I was his first(?) cheating session and he’s been cheating our entire marriage. I’m not saying he had sex with tons of women. He’s a predator and has had MANY, MANY emotional affairs our entire relationship and marriage. So, to answer Magneto’s question: No, I don’t think this is the first time they’ve cheated.

      My ex said to me in the Divorce Letter, “I want to be in a relationship with someone who trusts me 100%. You can’t give me what I want. 100% trust.” My sister went to her pastor for advice as to how to support me with the divorce, etc. She told her pastor what my ex said about and the pastor said to her, “He’s cheating and THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME.” He said I should “RUN!”

      Once a cheater. ALWAYS a cheater.

      • Cheater demand: “I want to be in a relationship with someone who trusts me 100%. You can’t give me what I want. 100% trust.” UBT that: “I want to be in a relationship with someone who can’t see behind the mask. You see that behind the mask there is a cheater so you can’t trust me.”

  • The authors last piece on divorced moms was March 2015 == guessing things aren’t so rosy for her at this point.

  • My ex has played the ‘we both contributed to the issues in our marriage’ stance as his pity ploy. And, like CL says, I fully agree that we did except of course, I am not responsible for his choice to cheat. That’s on him alone. Unfortunately, our daughter has bought into his story hook, line and sinker. When she lashed out at me about her poor, pitiful father and how this is my fault too, I told her that I was not faultless in the marriage but he chose to cheat and that was on him. After that, I decided that I would not talk with her about him again unless she specifically asked me something in a civil tone and didn’t become defensive of him during the conversation. That’s worked so far.

    Interestingly, the flip side to his pity ploy is that his story to me was that he loved me, our life together, our family, etc. and he cheated just for sex because he felt like he deserved it. True to his narc nature, his story varies depending on who his audience is and what he’s trying to get from them.

    • Yup, the story changer. My ex told my eldest child in a rare moment of honesty that yes, he had cheated (years previously, before she was born) and his not admitting it damaged our relationship and we never reconnected (I was gaslighted and told what I thought was an affair was just me being paranoid/insecure). A year later, he told her that while I think that I have the moral high ground because of the infidelity, no marriage ends due to cheating alone and that he and I _both_ f’*ked up in the marriage.
      Yes, he used that term.
      Yup, all things to justify his behavior and make him feel better about his actions.

      • I’ve always wished there was a good comeback to people who say “there were problems in the marriage.” Sometimes I think I’d like to say, “Yes, I contributed to problems in our marriage, but I wasn’t the one who destroyed it by lying and living a double life.”

        • No one has actually said this to my face, but if they did, my response (after suppressing the urge to sock the person) would be to say, “Yes, TWO people had marital problems, but only one of them cheated.”

          My next sentence would be–“Well, you’re not perfect, so I guess your spouse gets a pass to cheat?”

          My next sentence would be, “Don’t ever contact me again.”

          • I like, “Yes, there were problems in the marriage– my X was cheating and that created lots of problems for me [and the kids}.”

        • I have to say it does annoy me when people tell me that “there must of been problems in your marriage with your wife”.

          My comeback is: “Yes there are always going to be problems in any marriage, but successful marriages only involve two people – but unfortunately some bitches can’t count.”

      • I’m so glad you mentioned this now and that I am reading it. I know the day will come when my son confronts his Dad about our divorce. And I guarantee, he will give his sad sausage story and blame me for HIS cheating. I’ll be prepared for when my son comes back to me with that shitty nugget of lies. I will be armed and ready.

        The ex already has given his sad sausage story to our son about why he moved in with the Whore…he needed help paying his bills. WTF??? No twu luv??? Not her shiny sparkles??? Hell no. I just hope my son remembers that I didn’t move in with anyone to help ME pay MY bills and I took care of him. Just thinking about it gets me riled up!!

        • Yup mine told his daughter he moved in with her because “do you want me to sleep in the trailer” by the way he was always welcome to sleep in my office after the separation he just chose to move in with her…

  • I’ve always liked this post as it is one of the few that addresses my cheater directly (he’s a vanilla cheater).

    But THIS– his view/comments:
    our marriage was long over
    he was drowning doing what was expected of him, not what he wanted
    he is NOW in a loving, caring, honest relationship!

    The last one he told our daughter! Gee, and what was I doing for 23 yrs? Apparently not loving him, nor caring about him. Newsflash, I was honest! He was the one who lied about everything.

    Of course, he married the 10+yrs younger OW, and now has 2 kids under 3 .

    He has convinced himself that this current relationship is The One. Good luck with that, dude. You both cheated on your spouses. When I asked about MOW husband, I was told “no one misses him.” Uh, huh.. Portray him an abuser, to justify how she treated him.
    (As an aside, I rarely mention OWife to my ex, but things she has done have come up a couple of times… And boy does he turn angry with me, when I date to question her actions! So defensive. She is NOT my kids’ parent, so yes, certain things I will not agree to/with, as she has no moral/legal responsibility for my kids)

    I have been told my ex is miserable in his new life. New job and family are a bit tiring…poor baby. (Hear those tiny finger violins?)
    Most days I pity him– he still does not understand happiness, and how to achieve it.

    As for OWife– no pity for her. She knowingly got involved with a married man with kids.

    As for Claire and cheaters such as my ex– they live in fantasy land. Things will all work out in THEIR situation cuz as CL points out, they are SPECIAL.

    Uh, huh, and I have a nice bridge to sell you.

  • I had hoped that my XH and ow would stay together so that there would be a reason for all this devastation. But narcs come first and XH,who is a very sad sausage, realized he was having a hard time blaming me for the divorce and getting sympathy with her by his side. So the ” love of his life” had to go. Dumped her a month after our divorce was final. Now he spends his time rewriting our history and fb posting about what a great guy he is to all the internet trolls. Whatever

    • My xh said he and his MOW talked about “what kind of relationship” they were going to have….
      (P.S. It was “the LOVE he always wanted…”) he said to his wife of 30 years….)

      Good Luck, MOW with the STV he was passing around….
      AND the work investigation that exposure brought you…. you dirtbag scum.
      I’m sure your relationship is built on TRUST and no lies….

    • “he was having a hard time blaming me for the divorce and getting sympathy with her by his side. So the ” love of his life” had to go.” Wish this would happen with ex and his skank. I told everybody I knew, and made sure those people knew lots of people I didn’t know, and bowlful my told them as well. But they seem to be settling in. No shame at all.

  • Oh Claire, you got married at 21 years of age and 9 years later, you’re in major denial. It’s not just a river in Egypt. And statistics show that the divorce rate for people who get married before the age of 25 is 90%. Your post is riddled with maybes, jealousy issues, substance abuse, and complete uncertainty, I was cringing all along the way reading your post. Sounds like you are in a very bad marriage, and your choices have been based on bad judgment and a lot of immaturity. I hope you get some advice in therapy because you seem very co-dependent. You sound very unhappy, even miserable. Good luck to you.

  • Cheaters are repulsive, ego-maniac fuckwits. Try as they may, they will never succeed at convincing others (or even themselves) that they did it all for “love.” (Give me a minute, I just threw up in my mouth…) Claire, sweetheart…you’re delusional!

    After enough time has passed and the affair has been on display for awhile, they WILL try to put on an act that neither one of them have ever been happier. They’ve never been more “in love” or so well-matched with another human being. You see, this justifies their egregious behavior. Cheaters are liars! Their lies don’t conveniently stop when they get into the next relationship. If anything, they lie more. They have to.

    All the lies and deceit they had to utilize while wooing (cheating with) poopie schmoopie….. “my ex abused me, she cheated on me, she withheld sex and communication, she didn’t appreciate me…..blah, blah, blah”…..will come back to bite them in the ass cause now that whore and him are a “blended family” he’s going to have to make sure he keeps all the lies he spoke about his ex (you know…the ones that were untrue and only used for justification) going for the duration of their sparkly, “real” relationship. I have a feeling that’s gonna get old fast. Especially when she starts questioning him on the inconsistencies of his story-telling.

    As far as surnames being excluded in these cheating, lying assholes admissions of the meaningful, loving relationship they found with their affair partner…well, let’s just say I thought that since they were so happy to boast about all their excuses as to why the affair happened in the first place and how it was all their ex’s’ faults, I outed them both on She’sahomewrecker.com….surnames and all.

    It’s the little joys in life.

    • Hurt and Confused

      “the inconsistencies of his story-telling”

      Oh, did the Limited know how to spin his suffering lies. And she lapped it up. The one thing I did do was to call her and fill her in on all the nasty details of his past shortly after DDay. She knows about the cycle, #of women he dated at the same time, and the excuses he uses when cheating. It must have surprised her that I let him go as she continued to approach me believing I cared. She told me he said he had to support me!

      She figured he would support her instead! He’s old and worn doesn’t want to work and thought by cheating I would fight and beg for him. I really dodged a bullet.

      • Boy did you ever dodge a bullet!!!

        I did the same: called whore and informed her of his tendency to cheat on ALL women he’s ever been with, how he was lying about our purported “unhappiness,” etc., etc., but she believes everything out of his lying, cheating mouth. Doesn’t matter that she knows that he’s a lying cheating bastard. Oh well, she will figure it out one day and I can’t wait! She has texted me telling me how I’m such a pathetic loser and he dumped me for her cause she’s so much better than me. She’s an ugly troll, inside and out! She will get hers. They both will. Even if that means they stay together miserable because they have both ran out of options (other sources of supply).

        • HurtandConfused

          You would be surprised at just how insecure a troll is when they are aware the ‘good Guy’ has a history and a pattern of cheating.
          Let’s just say she keeps him on a short leash. Always asking him where he is and filled with anxiety when he’s ‘away’.

          The pattern has not changed. The excuses have because it was easy with me as he had total independence. They lose that initially. Trolls are very clingy. She would have to control his dr visits, seeing his children, going to work, going to the gym and jamming. I’m happy he’s with an ugly troll serves him right.

          • I think you’re right about her being insecure, as my ex’s troll has told me on numerous occasions how “beautiful” she is. I asked her if she was trying to convince me or herself. Every mutual friend of hours are absolutely shocked that he replaced me with the likes of her, as there is no comparison. She’s just a loose woman who spread her legs for a taken man and continued to have unprotected sex with her husband till she decided to drop the bomb on him. They can have each other cas as far as I can tell, their character is a perfect match!

            • Yes, same here. Ex’s whore was blabbing at me how jealous and insecure I was. If I’m jealous cause I don’t want my husband sneaking around with whores, count me in. I told her,”yes, it really takes a mature, secure woman to sneak around with another woman’s husband. ” bleh, she can have him. Don’t want him. If he had been truthful with me, I never would have.

              • Wow, Anita…these home wreckers sure do have high opinions of themselves, don’t they? Guess if they say it out loud enough, they may start to believe it. Even if slutface was actually attractive (which she is so not), it wouldn’t change how ugly she is on the inside. Any woman who engages with a married man with the sole intent of luring him out of his marriage–as well as mocking the betrayed spouse once they have won the “prize,” is a certified piece of trash in my opinion.

                She can have him. I don’t want him. They can enjoy the cheat fest they’re both about to embark on once they get bored with one another. I hope they are constantly keeping tabs on one another since they both know what the other is capable of. I’m thinking there certainly will be some trust issues, if not now, down the line for sure.

        • H&C, I left scumbalina a voicemail that her new 30 yr older married man is a coward! Enjoy!
          She proceeded to text me I was a “bitter old bitch” told me “I should drink myself to death,” and I was a “dike” yep sure did.
          So I just had to tell ho-worker, “i am more man than he has proven to be, and more woman than he will ever get.”
          Just couldn’t help myself, but I also reminded her to keep feeding shithead drinks for his second massive fucking heart attack is brewing. Hope she sticks around to nurse her old man back.
          In addition, day of discovery of his cheating, I told him to get the fuck out! Well guess what, that was his plan anyway. Told him better sooner than later. I also asked him what are you going to do when she gets pregnant? O. Whore she was shy of 22 yrs old.No response from Mr “sly”, but folks drum roll.
          His now 23year old whore is going to have a baby in about one week.!
          So much for running around, dining, dancing, fucking, vacations and freedom. Feel sorrow, pity and complete sadness! However, its all about choices mmhhmm!
          So grandpa daddy is just an aging old fool. Guess second time is a charm.
          So bizarre!
          It”s like an episode out of the twilight zone.

          • Oh my….twat face told me to keep drinking and “have a great night” cause she was going to bed with her boyfriend ( my ex). These whores are scum and I’m so looking forward to the day when her world falls apart just as mine did. She thinks she’s extraordinary, but she is less than ordinary.

            Good for you for kicking your dirtbag to the curb. I did the same. It felt great. At least by doing that, we regained a minuscule amount of control.

            • Well, this type loves a triangle. So when we’re done and go no contact, and there is no one to triangulate with…then they have to deal with each other. For real.

              • Exactly! I’ve been no contact with both of them for 7 months now! Unfortunately, still going through court for child support so I still have to deal with his useless ass and constant jabs to get a reaction from me. Too bad for him, I don’t care enough to play into it. Ignoring him does the trick just fine! ?

  • I don’t blame Claire as much as HuffPo for running this superfluous piece of crap. If you’re going to publish a piece justifying infidelity, at least choose a piece that either has some substance or does a better job of obfuscation.

    But, it does nicely illustrate the cheater’s special-snowflake, my-affair-is-about-love, minimizing/ignoring the destruction mindset.

  • My X’s scumbag mother and stepfather started their great love affair while both were married. I’ve spoke about it here before; How mom would enlist the kids to stalk her affair partner to see what he was up to. The kids weren’t even 16 yet. All of them, hyenas.

    Anyway, those two got married eventually, and they’ve had 20+ fun filled years of alcohol abuse, domestic violence, one failed job after another, and various dramas I don’t have the energy to type here. At one point, mom went to jail for embezzlement and the other for assault with a deadly weapon. Lovely people.

    Today, both have probably a negative credit rating if that’s even possible. My X-MIL was a champion moocher, borrowing money from us and never paying us back. She’d lie about EVERYTHING! Like telling us she saved a family of four in a burning car at the side of the road on the way home from work. (She was a nurse.) She’d lie about what her clothes cost her, lie about what she made for dinner. She couldn’t tell the truth, on anything. And her husband, complete loser scumbag. One time she announced to me that she was moving into our new house “just to get on our feet” and that they’d be gone after a few months. She announces this without even asking us if it was OK. She thought I’d roll over for her. She got a big surprise when I told them to ask one of her other kids. (Yes – I was the asshole after that.)

    So, yes it’s possible two cheaters can “last”. But wow, how they lived. It’s completely absurd. Personally, I think these two deserve each other.

    My X married his MOW and I’m sure they are enjoying martial bliss. That’s all going to come to a screeching halt after maybe 3 or 4 years and she starts hacking into his cell phone. Enjoy!

    #I’mfree, #divorcehappiness #yougetwhatyoupaidfor #hashtagblahblahhashtag

  • Claire, you got it all wrong like every other cheater. Asswipe and whore juice have broken up four times in less than three years why? Cause its not working out the way she wants. She could get me out of his life but not his head. I could have withstanded anything so much better if i had been told the truth! Still would have hurt badly but the truth. Truth means nothing to a cheater add vows, promises, integrity and there you have it. If in fact instant gratification, teenage love drival, hero worship and looking better and fucking those you love over is want is wanted than at least be honest. I wouldnt want anyone who sneaked around and then abandoned his family for any reason at all. Asswipe married cheated. Whore juice single slept with a married man and didnt care still a cheater. She has doubts about his fidelity, oh big surprize! He has huge doubts about her. Shes lost nothing. Asswipe lost alot. Hes suffering now. Good! Get your head out of your ass claire and see the truth you are nothing but low life pond scum and i hope your life blows up in your face completely you are nothing but a low life cheating lying pod. You should have done it honorably but no you didnt. Fuck you claire and everyone like you.

  • This is a match made in heavean! A younger married woman of 30 falls in love with an older man. Sounds like a real catch. I doubt if 40 is 40 more like a fifty year old dud, mate poaching married housewives with children. If he were all that there are plenty of single women willing and ready. They really deserve each other. There is no better reaping than a 30 year old wasting her youth on some aging fart. He has found his perfect nurse. Good luck with that.

    • Yep, up above I referenced a 65/25 match made in heaven. Taking bets now on how long the train-wreck will last.

      • I have kids that are her age so I hope my comments don’t come off as an ageist… but it’s like a match -up between Rihanna and Russel Crowe. She’s still listening to Rihanna and he’s asking who is Rihanna? Just sad.

        • Renewed, Man – how can they possibly share all the funny parts of movies we both memorized – only he was so funny repeating them perfectly, and we’d laugh and laugh. 35 yrs is a lot of movies together. They don’t even watch, or have seen, the same movies over 30 yrs. It’s ridiculous to think that could ever work. He’s probably on a special diabetes or high-blood pressure diet, and she’s either vegan or a huge meat eater – but I bet it’s opposite. My X started going downhill after 55 – an ex bodybuilder and it all caught up with him. He was limping bad when I met him last. Time for knee surgery, baby. Lots of arthritis and, as I’ve mentioned before, Prostate Cancer which he just had removed.

          NurseHarlot – your job has begun if you’re still around, slut.

          If I met him today, I’d stay far away.

        • Renewed, I also wonder what kind of conversations take place, if at all now, with assclown 53 and scumbalina 23!
          But oh wait, the baby will be here soon so I could imagine its all about that for now!
          Well lets just see how left out cheater feels after the birfh!
          This shall be pretty interesting.

          • Yeah, he’ll have two children on his hands!

            And HE’S a child.

            What a fucking nightmare. What does he even think? I would just like one peek inside his thought process.

            Dummy.

  • My ex pulled all those justifications, including ‘cheating is just something that happens in relationships’. (He had cheated on me 7 years previously, and it turns out he had cheated on the long-term girlfriend he had before me, too, so I guess it IS just something that happens in HIS relationships!) I found that belief particularly interesting, since the one thing that finally got ex’s mother to divorce his (violent, annoying, neglectful) father was finding out he was cheating, and the one thing that got ex’s step-mother to divorce him too was finding out he was cheating.

    Anyway, not only was his love with Schmoopie extra-special, but she understood him and didn’t judge him like mean ol’ me, because her previous marriage had ended due to her cheating. So they were, like, destined for each other!!! Of course, 3 months after I kicked him out, he was asking me ‘this is just temporary, right?’ and 6 months in he was trying to get me back, and a few months after that, admitting to trying to cheat on her with me. I also quite wonder whether he cheated on her with other women, as well, since he was only seeing her every second weekend for quite a while, and heaven knows, he can’t stand being alone! (The other option that may have allowed him to be ‘faithful’ to her is that charming pair, alcohol and porn; grosses me out just to think about him alone in his dinky apartment …)

    But the most satisfying was learning (from HIS mother, double points) that Schmoopie dumped him for another man, TWICE!!!! Oh, the joys of making a committment to a cheater! Such character, such loyalty, such reliability! So totally worth throwing away me and everything we had built together and breaking up your kids’ family!

    So the ex got a new girlfriend after Schmoopie dumped him for the second time. Literally, it took him a week! But that’s good, when he has a girlfriend, he doesn’t bug the kids and I as much. And maybe, maybe he won’t cheat on this one, I don’t think he much liked the consequences of cheating on me that second time.

    • Mine said that, too, in his last nastygram to me, “Affairs happen, Tempest.” I wanted to write “and happen and happen and happen….” but … NC.

  • Not sure whether to make a 45 minute long Bronx cheer or just keep giving the finger to this HuffPo philosopher on my computer monitor.

    My ex’s relationship with her fellow cheater may very well last forever, I don’t know, but I know it is a relief to not be married to her anymore.

  • Love how Claire put “cheater” in quotation marks!

    As if that changes the meaning of the word, reduces the severity of her actions, or minimizes the destruction she caused.

    Claire, you “suck at life.”

    Does that sting any less when it’s put in quotation marks?

  • Just found out this week that a couple I know that married after blowing up two homes are now splitting up. Not surprising, but get this, she is all over FB talking about karma (he dumped her) and how he’ll get his, etc. Nowhere does she mention that she is getting “hers”. She flaunted the relationship in his ex wife’s face and made her life miserable throughout the affair. Guess what, other than some fake condolences on FB, no one gives a rat’s behind. Oh & up until about a month ago you would have thought everything was just peachy in their marriage.

    • I know a couple like this too! The guy cheated on his first wife to be with the affair partner. And then went to marry the AP, and cheated on her too. They are getting divorced. Funny thing is she had no problem bashing the first wife to everyone, and flaunting the relationship in his ex-wife’s face, and now that she was cheated on, she is livid and is not happy.Funny thing, they portrayed themselves to be such a loving happy family, when behind closed doors, things were ugly, very ugly. Now, she posts on FB lamenting how she’s all alone and miserable. Too bad, so sad. I hope she realizes that’s how the first wife must have felt… I have zero sympathy for this woman.

      • KB22 – ‘She flaunted the relationship in his ex wife’s face and made her life miserable throughout the affair.’

        First: Who the hell posts this shit on FB?

        Second: Who the fuck reads it?

        Three: Nobody, they sound sick in the head.

        Four: Facebook is for ‘happy people only”, don’t you know.

        • She is posting how strong she is and will get thru the divorce with her mighty strength, blah, blah , blah. She’s a train wreck and everyone that knows her soon to be ex is not surprised, she always had an expiration date. Of course she thought she was “special”. Not so much. As for the FB friends “supporting” her, most could not give a rat’s behind and just want the dirt.

    • What goes around comes around. Gotta love karma! Positive and negative in the universe love it when the negative hits them square on their piehole!

    • I know that same couple, KB22. Not really, just the same old tired scenario. Now that she’s the victim of the adultery the co cheater doesn’t think it is so fun anymore.

      • Whore juice told asswipe shes so perfect he’d never cheat on her! Hahahahahaha! He has and does. Her three exhusbands cheated on her so the story goes shes s big forgiver. I smell cheater on her. Shes a joke like claire. Mutual decision for the breakup of the marriage. They decided. How sweet. Now their relationship is broken yet again and neither trusts the other. Again big surprise! She may be (ugh puke) nice…. but very vindictive. What an ass both of them. Suffer the consequences of your bad choices bitches!

      • I’m not sure if there is another party involved but I hear he just shut down, ignored her (you know typical before the discard) for some time. The final straw was that there were plans to go away with a group to an island resort and he bailed last minute and she went by herself. Really the only surprise was how long the marriage lasted. A mutual friend stated that he basically checked out about 2 years into the marriage and she hung on for dear life. So yes karma hit him having to stay in a marriage where he was miserable and now he has to split his retirement, property, savings, etc. He won’t be dirt poor but this is a guy that likes his big ticket toys. She is hitting 50, not that late 40’s or 50’s is an issue but when you presented yourself as nothing more than a sexpot being over 40 is an issue.

  • UBT this one…or just comment. I think you can get to a few articles on the site before you hit the pay wall.

    Another movie is coming out about the glories of cheating, written by a woman who fucked a married man and GLORY, they are still together 21 years later. Pisses me off as this one is all about how the other woman HELPS the wife get her husband back after she decideds SHE doesn’t want him after all. I shit you not. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/05/31/do-two-women-who-love-the-same-guy-have-to-be-enemies-one-movie-argues-no/

    • PSS: “Rinaldi was interested in the “idea of the other woman always being the enemy, when the other woman is just another woman who loved the same guy,” she says.

      • Sounds like Rinaldi is a cheater who gets off on having two women “fighting” for what he imagines to be the ultimate prize: himself.

      • Put that in any other context, and its ludicrousness becomes evident:

        “Harold was interested in the company embezzler not being a bad guy, but just helping to redistribute the wealth, Marx-style.”

        “Janette was intrigued by how shoplifting is really just “sharing” on a grand scale.”

        • Tempest, hahahaha.

          I’m still puzzled how the marriage CONTRACT doesn’t seem to have any of the same protections as other types of contracts – against things like fraud and embezzlement – although, arguably, the damage is greater.

          • Well, speaking of embezzlement, my lovely X’s family…which was a good family, except for one DIL (and of course, my X). She worked for 10 yrs as the head honcho in a local credit union, and over that time, she embezzled over $1mm. Have no idea how she got away with it for so long, as I”m also in the banking business and there are so many stop-gaps.
            Surprisingly, they slapped her on the wrist, gave her 30 days in jail and the rest of her life to pay it back in $400/mo increments.
            She’ll die before that happens.
            I thought she’d get 30 yrs which she deserved!

            But, she’s a convicted felon and can never get a passport or vote again, so I guess that’s quite a penalty when you live right next to the Cdn border (for taking advantage of their cheap dollar for shopping).

            So many losers in their family now that I look back.
            No thanks, no more contact with them either, even my beloved MIL.
            It’s just too tough with her and awkward.

  • Loved the same guy that she stalked and acted all predator-like about. Then corresponded with him 18 hours per day via text messages. And he willingly responded. Then lied about it when caught and told me I was “crazy”. He hadn’t even seen crazy up to that point. But I made sure they saw my “crazy”. I left them no doubt. Still makes me smile!!

    • Awake! ‘But I made sure they saw my “crazy”. I left them no doubt. Still makes me smile!!’

      Oh, me tooooo! I went nuts and was proud of it. I made him scared of me short of pulling out a knife.
      I was SUCH a nice wife before then.

      Fuck That!

  • Dear Claire:

    So you think your affair can turn into something long term? You don’t seem to care about your actions or consequence to your first “bad” husband.

    You wonder if you can have a trusting ling term shinny new relationship?

    I really hope you never have to learn what being married to a cheater is like.
    Unfortunately, I have little faith that is going to happen….

    As your shinny new family with three little kids gets flushed again down the toilet…

  • Of course affairs can last. Does that mean they are happy or miraculously free of further cheating? That I doubt. My bio father was a big cheater. Left my mom for an OW when I was six. He eventually married the OW because she was an immigrant and would have been deported otherwise. They remained married for the rest of my bio father’s life (he died quite young of heart disease, ironically on Father’s Day of that year.)

    Prior to marrying his OW, my bio dad actually told my mother that he did not love the OW, but that she “gave him his space.” My assumption is he cheated on her, just as he did on my mom. He also turned into a mooch…. managed to get lifetime disability (although he was NOT disabled) and lived off the OW’s full-time income for the rest of their marriage.

    He had basically zero relationship with his three children once he left our mom. The step-mother hated us, he was disinterested. I am incredibly lucky, however, because his dumping my mom left her free to meet and marry a fantastic man a few years later. My step-dad was a blessing. He used to call me his “acquired daughter.” I rarely think about my bio father, but I miss my step-dad every day; he died 13 years ago.

    • I’ve written about my grandfather before: 3 marriages, 7 kids, 2 step-kids, and bailed on them all when the kids hit puberty. If he had lived longer, no doubt there would have been marriage #4.

  • Cheaters spend their entire lives trying to justify that what they did wasn’t that bad!! Got a friend who blew her marriage & 2kids up 22 years ago for AP. He did the same, only no kids. Fast forward both are in their 50’s now, he is keeping a stripper in Vegas, kicked her out of the beautiful home, forced her into a legal separation (didn’t want her to get all his stuff) blah blah!! She says he is having a “mid life crisis” for 3 years now. OK, and refused to go forward with a divorce bc she Wuvs him! “You lose them, like you got them”

    My Xh didn’t want to leave me, he just wanted to fuck everything in sight. HIS side to the divorce story is, that I was ANGRY at him for years, could not get over anything! NOPE …. 31 years with a lying cheater AH was all enough for me. My advice is LEAVE them the 1st time. Lesson learned.

  • Claire should do us all a favor and please marry her 40 year old boyfriend. Start the karma bus now.

    On a side note, my daughter’s graduation was excellent. All the family on both sides sat in my area, talked with me, leaving disney mom and her cub scout to sit on their own. It was in one of the arena’s, so we had plenty of space. Food before and after, all good. My daughter wanted some photos with me and the ex but also with other people, so I capitulated for my daughters sake and didn’t make it a big deal.

    My girlfriend was a rock through the whole thing. Handled everything very well. Needless to say, I felt the pressure fall off. Now I know I can handle these situations. Everyone had great advice. And the one thing I kept saying over and over was, treat the ex like a coworker I don’t like. It worked great. My daughter had a great day, lots of cool photos, lots of fun for her. Worked out very well. Thank you Chump Nation!

  • My UBT detected two mutually exclusive contradictions in her letter that are very telling:

    First, she wonders about success of this affair with 40, “a relationship started while I was still married into a happy, mutually respectful, healthy relationship. ”

    Then she says: “I think that there are times, such as when your marriage is essentially over, and you are just in limbo mentally and emotionally, when a relationship that begins with an affair can end in a happy relationship.”

    So Claire – in your own words, you are saying that you started affair while happily married, but then rationalized your actions/ absolved yourself of responsibility by saying your marriage was “essentially over.”

    TYPICAL CHEATER-SPEAK………………baloney

  • Essentially over. Yeah, it would have been great if my stbxh had shared that with me before he told his howorker.
    They are now living in “claireland”, madly in love, going to couples counseling so they can work through all the damage they did to each other over the course of their affair. Who knows, maybe she really is that special and unique…

  • ‘Who knows, maybe she really is that special and unique…’

    chumpintraining, don’t make me snork on my keypad!

  • A family member I know cheated on his wife of 50 years with a younger woman. He ended up having a child with OW, but remained married to the first wife for another 10 years. One day the first wife hired a detective and discovered the other family. He then lost the large business he’d built in the divorce, but he was able to start a new business that was successful enough to support them.

    He is still with the younger woman and they seem happy. However, karma has visited because the children from his first marriage barely speak to him, in fact have almost nothing to do with him.

    He of course blames his ex wife for poisoning his children against him. He complains that his kids won’t speak to him, and as far as I know, he hasn’t apologized to them for his horrible actions. His excuse for getting involved with the OW was that he never loved his first wife and should have left her shortly after returning from the service. Instead, he stayed with her for 40 more years but decided to have another family on the side.

    Although his second marriage seems to have worked out, he has had a lot of pain from the severed relationships with his older children. So, even when the relationship that started as an affair seems to be working out, karma still happens.

    • So how old is this guy 70? He has a ten year old kid? I don’t know of course this guy is lying. That’s why he stayed with the first wife for 50 years and married the second after he was kicked out. Supporting a family of SS is no fun so he will be paying college expenses well into his old age. I’m sure he is ecstatic with his live in nurse.!

      • Sorry for the typos! A 70 year old man with a ten year old kid and all the things kids are into these days makes me believe someone is doing a little image control. I’m sure wifey and the kid love having dear old dad being called grandpa now and then.

  • Claire reports on September 27, 2015 that they are: “happy and going strong almost two years later.”

    • Studies have found that the more people post on social media about their “happy” relationships, the higher the likelihood it’s not so happy after all. I can confirm that. Huffington Post is a thin line away from Facebook.

      • Yes, how do you know a relationship is healthy or happy? There’s no sign of it on social media.

        • OmGosh, Kellia. You haven’t seen all the FB posts of people celebrating their anniversaries with their love of their lives, their soul mates, their best friends and lovers? Bleh.

  • Found this piece on my own a while back, commented, was flamed. Same thing happened to me more than a decade ago, except I did not breed with the fuckwit (thank the Lord).
    Coparenting with an ex husband who hates your guts should be loads of fun.
    And yeah, no strings attached people are awesome at commitment. X is a spinster, I am remarried with a great kid (not from the fuckwit thank God. I also have no doubt he is mine, not the post man’s)

  • During the aftermath of each of my FIVE ddays I heard different reasons for his cheating with the same married woman. The story changed each and every time pin pointing ME at the center of his unhappiness. I too was subjected to the “I haven’t been happy for a long time”….”We married too young”……”You never wanted me sexually”……”I never wanted to have children”…….etc. But each time I told him to leave he insisted on staying. He told me over and over again that he loved me, did not love his OW and wanted to fix our marriage. So…..really, I can’t make any sense of it. And I have stopped trying. Not my circus….not my monkeys. He is living with OW and has been now for about 3 years. Maybe Claire is right and they can be happy together. I know I COULD NEVER BE. He himself has recently told me that he cannot sleep at night and takes Ambian. What do you make of that???? LOL

    • Kimmy – Your ex is the type of guy that we can never please. There are people like that, where no matter we do, we will never be able to make that person happy. Not because of us, but because they are people which can never be pleased or content for that matter. So of course your ex was fine in staying with you, but you had to endure his incessant complaining, which means you would have never been able to please this type of person. And I wonder why he can’t sleep at night, let me guess, perhaps because he’s still unhappy… But the funny part he’s telling you, like you care. Whatever.

    • I think he’s not happy why else would he want to share his sleep problems with you? Let them stay together. They truly deserve each other. We all know they can’t trust each other – the minute there’s any doubt that’s their relationship over. So either they can stay with each other and never know trust or they break up. Either way you win, Kimmy.

  • Oddly enough my cheating ex complained he was having trouble sleeping while he was in the process of abandoning me during my cancer treatment. He told me he had downloaded some sort of sleep monitoring app onto his phone to try to work out what the problem was.

  • Why did this make it into HuffPost at all? It’s badly written, and its entire argument seems to be ” I want something therefore it is going to happen.” which is the logic employed by three year olds everywhere

  • M, hahahaha, I can relate. Before CL, CN and no contact, the ex was whining to me that while he was having the affair and trying to hide it from me, he was suffering incredible stress. REALLY???

    • LOL, mine told me that he cried a lot during his affair time. Please, asswipe, I was still living in the house and I saw nothing but smiles on his wicked face.

  • Watched Horton hears a whoo with children this weekend. Decided to research Dr Seuss. Wish I had not. He cheated on his sick wife with the wife of a friend. His wife killed herself and Dr Seuss married his friend’s wife. Then I read this interview with her. She dumped her daughters because ahe knew dr seuss would not want them.They just don’t think the way we do. http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/29/nyregion/public-lives-mrs-seuss-hears-a-who-and-tells-about-it.html

    • Mandie101, I found out about Dr. S a few years back. Ughhhh, what a turd. He hated children. I saw a children’s biography about him last week, and it basically lied. Said he and wife were happily married till she died, then he was lonely and married their friend.

  • From CL’s book, this wonderful gem: “The best karma you can hope for is that the two cheaters marry each other. I would say it keeps them out of the dating pool, but that’s probably inaccurate.

  • Hmm…define “healthy relationship”. My cheating XH married his predatory whore (Their love is real). They’ve been married for a year. About 10 months before he married the skank, he purchased a house that was probably his dream house – located in the desert – no HOAs – no landscaping required and was close to their work. He purchased it as a single man.

    When I learned about the affair a little more than 2.5 years ago, my therapist told me that the whore wanted my life. Well, it’s true. They just sold his dream home and purchased a home around the corner from our former marital home, which is located in a high end town and subdivision. 3000 sqft and a pool for just the two of them. He was stupid enough to name her on the house. Stupid because this wasn’t Schmoopie’s first time to the rodeo. Her first husband was also acquired while he was married. Her first H was smart enough not to put the slut’s name on the house. When they divorced, she walked with $0. Now if XH and Schmoops divorce, she’ll get half. From what I can tell, he put up the down payment. $60k on a $460k house. (We would have owned our home in 8 years). I’m sure if something goes wrong in the marriage, XH’s little passive aggressive/conflict avoidant brain will be thrown for a loop.

  • I agree. So sick and tired of cheaters blaming ‘love’ for their crappy actions. Booked a flight to see my AP while smiling at the face of my trusting spouse? Not my fault. Love. Banged my college girlfriend in our bed while you were at work? Had to. Love.

    There’s a crime theory that addresses, among other things, how criminals attempt to subvert the requirements of moral behavior by claiming a higher calling made them do it. Sure, I robbed the bank, but my dear old dad needed surgery! You can’t get mad at me for that, can you? Yah, I blew our entire savings on a condo for my schmoopie, but I had to! It was for true love. You wouldn’t understand.

    I write about ‘Appeal to Higher Loyalties’ and my cheater here: https://honeyandthehomewrecker.com/2016/04/08/homewrecker-the-chart-of-good-person-ness-part-5-1-of-3/

    Best of luck to you on your road trip to Meh!

    • Honeyandthehomewrecker – I read your blog and you are a supremely talented writer! It’s intense.
      Thank you for sharing as I go back to read more…..

  • Honey&thewrecker
    Did not know about your blog! i! I will read it over the weekend. I was looking for a cartoon strip that you have on your blog like crazy (the one with cheater leaving and the mom & kid looking better without him! )That is what I am hoping! the more I read the more scary it gets too much craziness from these a-holes!!! I wish we could post pics of all these cheaters…. the world wide web would explode!!! Idea for “FUN FRIDAY” the cheater pictures mug & what he/she did and his/her nickname. Instead of their faces with can create a Meme or a generic face with this on top? or ? or a pig head!

    • Seriously! It could be like the dating game, but in reverse. Instead of attributes, the caption or voice-over could name all of the cheaters worst atrocities, and issue a rating.

      ‘This fine-looking gentleman is Jim Jones! Hailing from Tempe, Arizona, has 3 kids under five, 2 with his soon-to-be ex-wife Barbara of 15 years, and one with the checkout clerk from the Jim Dandy that he met in a Piggly Wiggly bathroom stall last fall. In addition to lasting psychological trauma to his children, Jim leaves behind both terrible heartbreak and herpes for his trusting spouse Barbara. Jim would normally rank no more than 3 bags of dirt here on crappypappies.com, but because he also siphoned off the entirety of their marital life savings and lost it to the JackPot Party slot machine at the local casino, Jim warrants our very highest ranking on the dirtbag scale of 5 bags of dirt. Avoid at all costs, ladies!’

      But you know some home-wrecker out there would be like ‘He got any of that savings left? Where’s his phone number at?’ I weep for future generations.

  • My divorce was final one year ago today. When reading today’s post, I felt a stab in my heart when I read the words “madly in love.” I will always associate that phrase with something XH said when I asked him if he had sex in the car, causing damage to the seat. He said, “You say I have a girlfriend, and I’m madly in love.” I said, “I didn’t say you had a girlfriend and were madly in love. I said it looks like you had sex in the car. It could have been a one-night-stand with someone you picked up off the street.” But I guess he had told me in “narc-speak” that it wasn’t a one-night-stand with someone he had picked up off the street, but that he considered himself to be a man “madly in love” with his girlfriend. He has never admitted to an affair, in fact, he adamantly denied it. Although I am aware of idealization-devaluation-discard and the fact that a character disordered individual cannot truly love, I cannot shake the feeling that XH will always be “madly in love” with his AP. When I asked him if he was having an affair with a specific woman, (the woman who blushed when she saw me after the car seat got damaged, the same woman who was always staring at him and he was always staring at her when we went to a certain store together) his response was “I don’t even know that woman. I don’t know if she’s married or has kids.” I suppose this was “narc-speak” indicating that the woman he was “madly in love” with was married with children. XH did not work; I supported him. He drove me back and forth to work and I have concluded that he used our vehicle to date her. Within days of noticing the damage to the car seat, I took the car away from him and started driving myself back and forth to work. Because he had no job or income of his own, he had no way to see her. Even though I rationally understand that what XH and his AP did was horrible and treacherous, I have these irrational feelings of guilt that I broke up the love affair of the century. If his gaslighting had been successful, I would still be married and the love of the century would still be raging on behind my back. This special kind of love stays special when kept as a fantasy because holding it up to the bright light of day makes it crumble like a cookie. Although XH was madly in love with her, would he really want to get a job to help support her or impose on her to support him? How could he put a ring on it with no income? Would he really want to co-parent with her? Share her with her kids? Deal with her ex-chump? Although his AP was madly in love with him, would she really want to lose her chump’s income and support a man with no income? Would she really want to be on his ass about getting a job? No, the “Mad Love of the Century” works best when it is kept a secret from and supported by chumps.

    • “I have these irrational feelings of guilt that I broke up the love affair of the century.”

      Isn’t that the craziest thing? Getting this idiot out of my head is driving me crazy. I’m tired of trying so hard to be okay. I’m equally grateful, too. It’s a weird tide pool of emotions.

  • My cheating husband treated me badly during the 17 years I lived with him. But when he left and moved in with his affair partner, his treatment of her was even worse. The police kicked him out of her house one night, and two weeks later she took him back in. And this is the woman who, for the year before he left me, had sent me numerous messages telling me how weak and pathetic and desperate I was…

    Oh, did I mention that before he left, he told me how they loved each other ‘truly, madly and deeply’?

    • If that’s what they think love is, then they can have at it. Talk about dysfunctional, yeesh.

    • I sure hope you dumped this loser who loves someone else ‘truly, madly, deeply’. Let them have each other! Their life will be dysfunctional.. KARMA…

      • Maybe we can report that cheater and his “truly, madly, deeply” horseshit to Soundgarten for plagiarism of their song by the same name. Do these imbeciles ever have one original thought between them? Bet that’s “their song.”

        • Oh Soundgarden… catchy tune… I just noticed the word faithful in their lyrics.. haha what a song for THEM to have!!!

          I’ll be your dream
          I’ll be your wish I’ll be your fantasy
          I’ll be your hope I’ll be your love
          Be everything that you need
          I’ll love you more with every breath
          Truly, madly, deeply do
          I will be strong I will be FAITHFUL
          ’cause I’m counting on
          A new beginning
          A reason for living
          A deeper meaning, yeah

            • Actually, Katy, I never noticed the lyrics had the word, ‘faithful’ until you pointed that out! Another song ruined for me. 🙁

              • I think it’s time for me to retire from this site. Pity. I only just got here, and CN are such a great group of supportive people, giving some clarity to me in the midst of chaos… But Katy, and Patty and Now Mel all seem to be the same person, which is making wonder which people are actually real here. Also, creepiest of all, not only is Elle telling me what my cheating husband bought her, (OW alert – yes, she’s here, on this site), but she is using my real name (Elle) – my therapist said that my cheating husband’s affair partner was wanting my life, but using my name? Does she actually want to be me too?

                Thanks everyone.

              • Red, that is strange and creepy. Please don’t leave – at least before alerting Chump Lady. This site can save your life. You are welcome and needed here.

              • RED – obviously the Owhore has multiple personality disorder – “I’m Mel! Now I’m Elle! No wait – I’m Patty!” What an asshole! Don’t let the crazy chase you away. Thundertwat will get bored and go away or CL will zap her into oblivion.

              • @Theresa – as opposed to a skanky, disgusting, disease-ridden bar whore who gets used by a married man?? Probably not a ton of respect or love coming the whore’s way while she’s on her knees in his pickup truck. Just saying.

            • Sorry, I originally put the wrong band name. It’s been almost 20 years since the song was out.

    • @Elle – someone on this site said whores don’t put out for free. And it looks like she has a price!

  • My exH and his snoopy finally got married (when she got conveniently pregnant) and have defied the odds by being together 18+ years.

    However, what the QUALITY of that marriage is, is a mystery.

    IMO they are ideally suited – apart from both beings cheats & liars they both have a degree in rug-sweeping and self-esteem so low they could both get under a snake’s belly with a top hat on. So they are both prepared to settle for just about anything that will fill the void in themselves.
    I can’t speak for him, but she keeps posting whiney crap on FB about how she works so hard at home and no-one appreciates her – well sweetie, you wanted him, and now you got the lazy @r$e, enjoy!

    I firmly believe the marriage has “worked” for so long, not because of what she does, but because of what she DOESN’T do – and that’s to ask for anything for herself. As long as she is prepared to be a slavish sexual housekeeper for him and continue to feed his ego, it’s all good.

    It’s a trade-off that she’s accepted, and he’s now her problem.

    • Hi Jill, just out of interest.. if his affair was 18 years ago, does that mean that fucktard is still pressing your buttons? I do hope I don’t need chumplady 18 years from now.. although we have kids and I can’t cut my cheating loser out of my life completely.. maybe I will be on CL :-S

      • Hi Patty,
        I sometimes give my contributions from the land of “Meh”, just to give a different detached view on things.

        At the time I was dealing with the fallout from my exH’s affair I wasn’t rational and it took me all my time to get up and go to work. I certainly couldn’t have joined in a discussion forum. So I take off my hat to all these brave folks who come here and post despite being in emotional pain.

        I want to reassure all the Chumps on here that cheaters never win anything of any value and that the Karma Bus eventually pays them a visit – but it runs to it’s own schedule, not ours !

        No, he doesn’t press my buttons, but every time I hear that some new disaster has befallen them I just smile to myself. Schadenfruede is underated IMO !

  • I have seen statistics that 3-10% of affairs end in marriage. Of those, my recollection is that about 25% (or less) of those marriages are successful. So, the odds of a true “happily ever after” (both of those things coming together such that there is an actual marriage that works out) are very low (range < 1% to 2.5%). Of course, people who think they are special tend to think that they are exceptional and so tend to also think that they are the exception to every high risk and every rule.

    As for the husband's alleged "substance abuse" problem, if the odds of recovery are greater than 2.5%, why not invest the attorney fees in that and save the kids the emotional trauma?

    No, I don't think anything in this article is rational or that rationality and defensibility are the point…it's just informative and amusing to put numbers to the excuses people use for their infidelity.

  • I had to check the date on the original. The OW had three kids and called my husband 40. I don’t need her writing about their love on huff post, her social media is enough.

    • Angie, i just KNEW Mr. Dreamboat 40 was married, lol. Why did she call him that, out of curiosity! Glad you left his sorry ass!

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