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Being the Marriage Police

If you didn’t leave right after D-Day, you’ve probably spent some time in chump Police Academy. You know, those dark days of “trust but verify” spent trying to hack into email accounts, cell phone SIM cards, velcro-ing voice activated recorders under carseats… Just how far did you go? (Anyone have a shoe phone?)

Today’s column came to me in a weird dream I had last night. I dreamt my friend needed some help driving to a vacation destination. So I get in the car, and there is a corpse in the back. I turn to my friend and say matter-of-factly, “You might want to consider going on vacation without the dead person in the back seat.”

Kind of a metaphor for a bad marriage really. The ride is so much nicer without a corpse.

When trust dies, the marriage is DEAD, but of course, chumps that we are, we drive on. Some people assemble evidence for help in court proceedings, or hire private investigators, and I do understand the necessity of that. But most of us go through the marriage police stage to convince ourselves, not the court of law. OMG, he was lying. OMG, she created a fake Facebook page. OMG, the lengths they went to for cake.

It’s just not enough to trust our senses, or trust our absence of trust — we need the unholy relics of the affairs. We need tangible proof we can touch and see, that won’t dissolve into a cloud of mindfuckery. “No! I can explain that!” says the cheater. But they can’t. It’s right there.

So my chumpy Colombos — were you a marriage detective? What did you find? And was it enough to make you hand in your badge?

This column ran previously.

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  • I wish I could even figure out how to hire a PI. Because I don’t have time to be a detective. 🙁

      • LOL Cheatersuck, true!! But a better Google search and better use of time would be to Google how to apply the perfect cat-eye liner!!! Marriage policing sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • And pick a detective based on what they will actually do. My PI appeared to only want to do “investigation” if it could be done on the computer at her desk. If you need your STBX tracked, with photographs, check beforehand that the PI will do so.

      • One of my PIs, a retired Milwaukee cop, actually offered to hide in the closet to get first hand recording. I thought he was joking until his partner told me he’d done it before with great success.

        • I love this tidbit about the detective in the closet.

          Tempest, good advice, thanks, I wouldn’t have thought of it.

          Can PIs detect well-hidden internet activity, such as when people create false profiles of themselves for, e.g., Craigslist or secret email? I saw an article recently written by a former government IT specialist. He claimed that almost no civilian can really trace another’s activity, save hackers, who are unlikely to risk exposure over “pedestrian” relationship issues. He was selling his own services, so I don’t know whether or not to believe him.

          • PIs are fairly limited in what they can accomplish legally. My D-day was on an affair with a graduate student 8 years prior. However, after learning the ropes at CL, I began to realize I’d been undergoing an intense devalue for at least 6-7 months prior to D-day. I strongly suspect the AP at that time was my X’s now-GF, and wanted evidence she had traveled with him out of the country 3 days after D-day. Travel records are verboten, so no information could be obtained that way, and my PI refused to take up any of my other suggestions to find out the information.

      • Ahh yes, I remember the PI days well! I hired a PI; didn’t take him long! I have video of the POS car at the stripper’s apt…..all night! Of her car at his house too. When I sent him everything back that he ever gave me, one of the items was a cell phone. On the cell phone I deleted everything I had on it BUT recorded the recording I got from the PI. He had no idea I did this until he rec’d the stuff back. Haha!! At the end of the recording I typed on a piece of paper that he wasn’t the only one who could hire a PI!! (This because he said he hired all these PI’s for his other ex’s).
        And yes, I did tons of PI work on my own too before the real PI.

    • Hiring a PI is useful but limited.

      If you are in a fault state, or in a country where adultery as “cause” can either speed up the divorce process or gain you a more favorable settlement, then hiring a PI is useful, as the PI knows how to gather evidence legally. Those of us who take up amateur sleuthing may get the information, but we may acquire it through means that would not be admissible in a court of law.

      Hiring a PI is also useful if you really want to know for sure your spouse is cheating and money is no object. This will give you peace (?) of mind, or at least certainty, but it’s also expensive.

      If you are in a no-fault state, then hiring a PI doesn’t do anything other than perhaps confirm what you already knew.

      For financial stuff, you need a forensic accountant, but even then, you need to be certain that your spouse has spent above a certain threshold for it to be worth your while to pursue that money. In my area, for example, I was told that if I thought that my XH had diverted less than $5K to the affair, that it wasn’t worth the money to recover those assets.

      However. the bottom line is how you feel about the constant vigilance.”Trust yet verify” is an eternal game. You know that your cheater can spend a bit more effort to take things underground.

      If you have to play marriage police, then you’re not in much of a marriage.

      • I don’t really want details, just spare facts. He’s talking to x number of people, from x number of phone or email accounts, at x frequency of contact, for x duration. Yes it looks sexual, or no, looks non-sexual, looks like legit work contact.

        Don’t want to know who, where, what they look like, what they say, or how to reach them. Don’t want any specifics; my awful imagination is traumatic enough. Don’t even want it for litigation. Just want to know yes or no, and when and to what extent I’m lied to.

        • You can find this information on My Verizon if you use them and I am sure the other companies do the same. If his phone is on a family account or you can con verizon etc into letting you in with his ss number.
          18 months of every call to and from his phone with numbers and places where he was when the call was received and durations.
          Every to and from text number and duration and if it had data (puctures) in it

          Data usage. This is where I discovered the vast time spent online…doing porn etc. It will tell you the type of usage as well.

          You then have to google the telephone numbers or join one of those places that do this.

          My ex was so stupid or uncaring he continues to use this phone, I moved my numbers to a new account. I stopped looking ages ago, but I could if I wanted to.

            • Down here in NZ we don’t have reverse directory, it’s illegal for privacy reasons. I had to trawl through the phone book narrowing it down to my suspicions to find what the traitor was doing on the phone while I was in town picking up HIS son, not OURS. Took a long time but it worked. The other thing that helped is googling the number and if the person is using it in a professional capacity, it may come up. Still a lot of work and a real pain. Was worth doing, the most revealing is I traced him to phoning the homewrecker for 45 mins as soon as I’d left the house to pick up THEIR son, then phoning 4 law firms as soon as he’d finished talking with her. So it was all orchestrated together. This was a year ago, we were in wreckonciliation and counselling and he was pretending to have nothing to do with her. Instead, he set a legal aid application in motion 3 days after these calls to attack me for the money I put into our business. All behind my back and while I was being step mum to his son with her, and 3 other sons from 1st marriage.
              Then I got a VAR and started recorded what they were saying on the phone. Vicious and crazy, discussing how I was trying to poison him (insane), how I was dangerous to their kid etc. Still they let me pick him up every week and take him swimming and he stayed with us every weekend. That’s how dangerous I am and how much they really believe their evil fantasies. That carried on for six months with crazy dangerous me in charge of that kid 3 days a week. OMG I even cooked for him, and I didn’t poison him, did I ?!!! Also recorded him lying to her about steps he was meant to have taken to speed up dumping me. Ha ha, he’s lying to her too but I certainly won’t tell that vicious skank. Let all the sharks eat each other until there’s only one left to take out.

              The snooping was absolutely worth it, that’s what it took to make me accept that he is a vicious manipulative traitor, not just a confused man in mid life crisis, and that I was being set upon by a pack of hyenas, him, the whore, and her family. I wish I’d snooped sooner and better and exposed him to the whole family. When I took all this to my lawyer his jaw dropped at the extend of the calculated nastiness these people have shown. So far, he is not charging me for his time, because he’s so disgusted at what they’ve done. My tapes have no legal value and don’t affect relationship property issues in NZ. But the traitor suspects I’ve gathered all this, he’s scared I’m going to share it with family. Since he was cheating on me with his ex while I looked after their son for 9 years, I’ve threatened to sue them for my unpaid childcare wages and travel expenses, and name her in the law suit. I figure they owe me $300,000 in back pay! That would surely make headlines in little NZ, they’ll be famous for their villainy!
              Love Game of Thrones, they execute traitors there.

              • Hi Kiwichump, a lot of the time I feel a bit remote even though chump nation is global, it’s comforting to know that there are people in NZ experiencing this utterly awful crap who found themselves here in CN.

                I came across a post somewhere in early April that mentioned employee monitoring software – not keylogging or anything like that, but it took screenshots and provided logs of computer and web activity. This has been the most helpful thing for giving myself proof that I wasn’t crazy, and that my STBX defaults to lie mode, and gaslights like a champ.

                Apart from finding this site, playing detective has provided me with the things I needed to know so that I could figure out what to do about it.

                I’ve got a dossier the size of the grand canyon that could totally destroy his image and ruin him – at times the temptation to upload footage and screenshots is huge. So at the moment, things remain as they were but with me in a position of now knowing what he’s up to and what is being said to friends and family. I am getting my ducks in a row, and will be seeing a lawyer of my own when the time is right.

                Now that I know the majority of his crap, it’s been so much easier than the frustration of not knowing, and his gaslighting doesn’t work anymore. I just don’t let him know that.

                He’s bled me dry financially and I am slowly trying to pay down the huge debts he’s piled up (mostly in my name) and get to the point where I can at least have enough cash to get out of dodge. I’m quietly removing my name from a lot of things that he would be quite ok leaving unpaid leaving me as the person who baycorp would seek out (eg RUC’s in vehicles in my name, dog registrations for his dogs, insurance etc).

                I was miserable a year ago and feeling bewildered and confused. Now I am just pissed and disappointed in him for being such a complete fucktard. It’s been better to KNOW.

                Kia kaha kiwichump and to all the other chumps out there.

              • KIA KAHA Yellow 11, sorry I didn’t check for replies sooner. You’re doing great work protecting yourself. NZ law does NOTHING for chumps.

  • I got one of those accounts that would give you every detail on a person to find out who she was and where she lived. And inspired through cell phone records during the marriage. After he left he wouldn’t tell us where he lived so I had friends tail him, took several attempts because they followed too close, (told them to look inconspicuous) and this was the only way I found out he was living with the other woman in an expensive apartment which helped my case because he was crying the blues about not having enough money to live on even though he was living in a friend’s basement. Sometimes spying on them is a benefit!!!

    • This article could not have better timing. My husband was caught having an affair 6 years ago when I was pregnant with my fifth child. (He butt dialed me while on a date — not the most savvy philanderer). It was hell for the first two years after finding out, but we bought a new house and he promised repeatedly he would never put me through such grief again. We were supposedly working on our marriage. Things were actually looking up — we went on a vacation, we went on dates.

      Fast forward to this past 4th of July …. I’m noticing more and more typical cheater behavior — edgy, moody, cell phone 24/7 (passcode of course), lots of traveling … Asked him what was up only to be screamed at and told to stop interrogating … So that night when he took the kids to see fireworks I snooped in the browsing history of his laptop (that I knew the password for) and I found a gmail account … Nothing of interest in it but something about seeing it put me in stealth mode. Why would he need that gmail? That night I bought a small VAR and hid it under the back seat. When he got home from work I listened to a 30 minute phone call (he uses Bluetooth so I could clearly hear her.) to his accountant (he is the CEO of a tech company) saying he was heading to her place to “have her for lunch”. Gag. Vomit. And holy hell, here I am again. Your gut is never wrong. I’ve already lawyered up, and this time he is gone. I’m heartbroken (again). I just might be the chumpiest of the chumps.

      • It it heartbreaking what these disordered, cruel creatures can do to the ones that love them and committed to them. I know that horrible feeling all too well. good luck on the divorce process.

        • Thank you Hopium … I keep hoping that there is a reason we are put through such anguish. I feel so sad when I read the on here posts and see what us Chumps go through.

      • So sorry ChumpySouthernMama. That’s horrible. But this is what it takes to make a good hearted chump give up on this loser. You’ve tried your best, given him a chance, or probably many, and this is how he thanks you! Bastard yelled at you on top of it, when he is guilty as sin. Gather as much evidence as you can before you strike and then let him have it. He’s a nasty bully boy.

        • Thank you Kiwi — he is a bully. He is currently blaming me for his recent indiscretion. I’m disgusted. This newest tryst could very well cost him his job since he picked a subordinate. He has to report to a Board, and he has a business partner. At least really seeing how much of a sham my marriage has been, has given me the courage to move forward and do what I should have done 6 years ago. I truly believe that once your marriage has suffered from infidelity, there is no chance of fixing it. It’s just impossible to ever recover and trust them again.

          • Southern mama I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I had a similar situation with my ceo stbx – the OW is the vp of hums resources (!!!) at his company. when the affair was revealed there was an investigation. Ultimately neither of them lost their jobs but we had to pay a $200k fine. $200k. That better be some magical pussy.
            And now he’s run off into the sunset with her and everyone at work knows and is “really supportive.” Except for maybe a couple of board members who want him out of there.

            • For a second I got excited about the fine!! But you said “we”, I hope it didn’t come out of your marital assets…

      • southern mama – ugh. how horrific. I am so sorry. I also went through a very similar STBX was dating a co-worker and I uncovered numerous receipts/records from their dates. The best was when he went for a run and I found his car keys (hidden, of course) and went through his car. I found a woman’s hair clip and a gift under his driver’s seat. When confronted, he told me they were “for his Mom.” The worst part was that he bought me the exact same gift the day before. What scum bags. You will look back at this one day and be thankful you didn’t waste another second with him!!! Hang in there!!!

    • iPad hidden in his car turned on to silent, me at home with my iPhone with “lost my iPad ” activated. GPS went to a location he stayed put for at for over an hour, I drove to the location, saw his car parked on the street, waited for him to come out of the house. He came out , ow ran out to kiss him goodbye. I tried to run him over, yada , yada, yada …

  • Found two years worth of emails documenting his affair. Idiot had saved them on the home computer. Including pix of her naked. And his trove of porn. Wasn’t even hard to find, my 13 year old could have done it. Glad he didn’t.

    • I found a Burke Williams spa bag….in the recycling, not at all hidden. He told me he had to as so stressed/needed massage (never got them before)….oh and how tight the lady told him he was. I called the spa, said I was OW and wanted to recall the type of massage I had….’a couples massage’ of course. His reaction….’the spa was lying’

      Too many other crappy takes to tell. The final couple that tipped me ….Begging and crying on the ph on my birthday. I found receipts for hundreds of dollars on presents purchased an hour after his crying phone call. Then a week later, he was leaving me after a major break in at our house (yelled screamed so badly at me that the policeman told me to get away)… go on vacation aka ‘work trip’ with her. I filed and served him the day of his return…..he cried. Of course. I told him to go get a massage.

  • I copied a key to his room in the hospital,blagged my way past security as I was his wife, where I found all the incriminating evidence I needed.
    It felt so self reducing to be that woman,the kind I never thought I’d be….going through pockets,reading letters…in detective mode and on high alert.I felt pathetic .What a horrible way to live.
    I’d rather be alone than have to spend my precious time and energy monitoring a lying,cheating manwhore,constantly looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life.
    Guys like him are only as faithful as their options.

    • Deedee, I didn’t feel pathetic at all. I felt empowered! Granted most of my sleuthing was leading up to Dday, but still. My sister in law had a mountain of evidence of her H’s cheating right in front of her (including friends telling her), but she chose to do nothing & live with it. To be the sad little ostrich. *That* was pathetic.
      Taking control of your life back? Refusing to go along to get along? That’s some awesome shit! I hope in time you’ll feel differently about those days. They were the first steps to gaining a life!

      • I think catching someone in the lies/cheating is empowering too. I didn’t feel guilty in the least about “spying” on him. His bullshit actions were the ones that caused it, not mine. It is really not how I “roll” normally. I won’t do it again, I know that, unless provoked.

        I do think the slimy cheattards use the trust of others to fuck them over. Ex did me, for sure. I was just soooo convinced he was a Good Person, in spite of his shitty behavior to me. I guess next time I have a relationship , I’m really going to watch the person’s actions really closely, ALL of them. It’s a drag, but I can’t think of anything better.

        • Agree. Knowledge is power, their lies took away our ability to make educated decisions and snooping takes that back. It might not be pretty and I wouldn’t want to do it forever but it is practical, and reassuring.

          Whenever I found myself wanting to believe his lies, or being gaslighted all I had to to was pull up my thumb drive filled with copies of his Whatsup conversations and her naked sexting pics to remind myself of what a motherfu%$er he really is.

          I also really enjoy listening to their phone conversations from when I was out (courtesy of the voice activated thumb drive I got at an online spy shop). Initially it was so that I would know if/what they were planning but I actually found great comfort in listening to him lie to her as well as describing exactly who he was (bitching about his “friends”, describing his abusive language to people) while she spackled away. It really helped to see that he truly sucks and he wasn’t going to change no matter what.

          I was tempted to go for the spyware on the computer and researched spyware for his phone but with an iPhone and without knowing his Apple ID password I wouldn’t have been able to set it up. When he used to use my Apple ID I did use “Find my iPhone” to track his movements. Also have had an iPad set up to receive his texts. Never caught him with her (they use Whatsup) but I did catch him planning with his enabling friend.

          Oh – and E-Z Pass is useful. Man they are dumb.

    • I felt just like Deedee. In fact, I felt physically sick to my stomach sneaking around after him. I just knew I had to see evidence with my own eyes or I would never leave him.

      I even apologized for my covert activities because those actions are not indicative of who I am and were a whole new kind of low for me. Of course, I knew the marriage was over and I had to file. His deeds were WAY worse than I ever could have imagined, and he would have two-timed me forever rather than come clean.

      Trust that that they suck.

      • I felt sick and empowered. Sick and damaged from discovering the depth of deception and nastiness I lived with. I think I am forever damaged by this. I suspect everyone of ulterior motives, I don’t think I’ll ever want a relationship again, I’ll never be able to trust again. He was the first man I ever really trusted, at the start I felt so safe with him. I adored him, I called him the love of my life, I live for him and his kids and our life together. I’ve had 9 miscarriages and no children and always hung on to the thought that I was lucky I at least had him. That’s how i kept going through the pain of the miscarriages. This has destroyed my faith in life. On the other hand, knowing the truth has given me the rage to deal with this situation, the determination to survive somehow and see them off into their evil mediocrity. All my power now comes from rage. I want to survive because I know they want to destroy me.

        • Kiwi, no wonder you are hurting — so much loss and betrayal. I’m so sorry. That you are able to focus on surviving, on *getting through* even if, perhaps, you can’t see the end, IMO displays strength. You found the grit to get away from a cruel bastard while coping with the agony of miscarriages. I hope you have someone — friend, family, therapist — to talk to. You deserve not to be alone with all of this.

          • Thank you ClaireS, I didn’t leave, he left. I wasn’t that courageous, I was a wreck for a long time. I started recovering my strength slowly when I found CN. I realised how banal my experience is, how predictable his behaviour is. Someone on this site, apologies I can’t remember who it was, quoted Simone Weil about evil. It goes like this:
            “Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring. Imaginary good is boring; real good is always new, marvelous, intoxicating.”
            So I have to look for the real good out there somehow.
            He’s gone, I’m no longer the marriage police, which is immensely liberating. I’m glad I did it to cure me of my addiction to him, but it was soul destroying to delve into that mire.
            I have a few good friends in my very small town, he’s afraid to show his face here and has moved into the “big” city (this is NZ so it’s pretty small…). Thank goodness for my older women friends, my dogs, and all of you in CN. Tracy deserves a knighthood. Dame Tracy, sounds good doesn’t it?

    • I felt similar to Deedee, like I was violating a long held oath of trust I’d had with my husband. It made me almost sick and I felt very guilty while snooping. What a horrible way to live. Isn’t it strange how guilty we felt for violating their trust by snooping when they were living double lives and obviously not feeling guilty about it?

      My ex told me he was very angry that I’d snooped through his stuff, but I immediately answered that I was very angry he was in love with another woman. He didn’t say another word after that.

      • I was like you all, I felt guilty too, which is incredibly ironic and chump-like. I spent about 3 months wanting to hack my ex-wife’s email while feeling like a horrible, paranoid husband. In retrospect, the gaslighting was so brazen I wish I had not waited that long.

      • Lyn, c also had the balls to be angry that I dumped his phone and saw all his texts to ow. Told him the same thing you did. Self righteous little buggers aren’t they

  • I look back on the ridiculous shit I did whilest in marriage enforcement and I smfh.

    Discovered & hacked xhole’s ‘secret’ FB
    Found out EVERYTHING about OW (including some incredibly not legal info that I could destroy her life with)
    Found her parents’ address & phone #, and contacted them re: her A w/my then H
    Sadly, DID NOT find a way onto a closed movie set in order to whoop OW’s barge of an ass

    In retrospect, I wish I’d used every ounce of energy I wasted on those two twat-waffles on divorcing xhole sooner.

    I agree, once you have a corpse in the car, nothing left to do but junk the car, that smell will NEVER come out.

    • I found the ex hubs secret Facebook account, got in and found out everything about my ex’s secret life. Ex had the same password for all things including email. This included years worth of private messages to his current and previous affair partners, along with messages to her family members. There were also pics of them in bed together saved to his email account. I used this information to my advantage contacting the current ow mother, contacting the previous ow husband via mail and email. I thought the husbands and family members should know what these skanks were up to. I let them know ex was a married man with 3 kids at home. The current ow threatened legal action over this stating she “had lawyers at her beck and call” and would sue me if I made contact with her family again. Ex hubs told everyone including lawyers, mediators, etc. That I was the crazy wife and there were no affair partners. I provided the pics, emails and messages to attorneys to show the ex was less than honest

  • After my ex said I could no longer visit the restaurant where he worked with then-suspected OW, I started sending my friends there are reconnaissance missions. I’m so embarrassed at myself when I think of it now.

    • I’m not sure why you feel embarrassed, so I don’t want to sound dismissive or insensitive.

      That said, had I been one of your friends, I’d have counseled you to do exactly what you did, and I’d have gone myself. I’ve never been a snooper, not even the little kid who tries to find Christmas presents! Not snooping under normal circumstances constitutes respect.

      But you weren’t dealing with normal. He was hurting you, gaslighting included. The only way I have found to combat gaslighting is information. And what if you’d tried JUST to trust your gut, left, and he’d kept AP under wraps for a “respectable” period so that she just looked like a new dating partner? Wouldn’t you wonder? Like maybe forever?

      Even if you had more indices than the workplace visit ban, it sounds to me like you really weren’t sure. Suppose he’d contracted HIV. Would you feel guilty about having snooped to discover that? I honestly don’t see any difference.

      I’m with many here; if the information helps you wake up or get out, on balance, it’s not dishonorable. There may be a dysfunctional aspect to collecting information. Okay. But part of the abuse cycle is absence of information. On the whole, I’ll take a small breach of normal ethics in service of the greater ethical good, namely, your having a weapon to fight back in a vicious power imbalance. (I’m gathering, just started, it is agony, I wish like hell I weren’t in this position, I’m not good at it, he has scrubbed plenty before offering me access to (known) email and FB because he wants R and I have to play for awhile, but I’ll endure the occasional pangs of feeling humiliated by detective work — because how the hell do you fight a conspiracy of betrayal, lies, and silence?)

      I’m sorry you still feel mortified. You’ve been through enough. FWIW: Shame on HIM.

      • I agree, ClaireS–we have a right to know what happened in our marriages. For some of us, just one piece of evidence that they had an affair is sufficient, and we don’t need to know further details. For others of us (including me), we want the nitty gritty–details, what they said, did they tell an AP that they loved them, etc. Yes, it is painful, but I needed as much information as possible to fully detach, and to make cognitive sense of my marriage. I’ve never dealt well with limbo, it makes me much more anxious than simply knowing the cold, hard facts.

        • I agree about snooping. For some, like myself,it helps with peace of mind. I had predicted a few things based on past experiences and I found out that I was correct. I think knowing asmuch of the truth aspossible will help us for the next time. We won’t be so forgiving of that mysterious “just a bad mood” that our partner has the next time.

      • “a weapon to fight back in a vicious power imbalance”, absolutely agree with that ClaireS. Sorry you’re in the middle of it, it is agony and it makes you feel soiled by their nastiness, but you need ammunition. I hope you find everything you need and it makes you strong and well armed. This sucks, defend yourself.

        • Any cheater who is “spied” on is bringing it on themself by doing things they shouldn’t do, lying about them, and actively trying to hurt their spouse and family with the sneaking.

          Like Mr. Good Guy Family Man I was married to. Sneaking around with a known whore ( god knows what diseases she was carrying), consulting a divorce lawyer to see how to best avoid supporting his own child, and trying to make me and everyone we know think that I was insane and the source of “our” problems.

          I’ve never spied on anyone before, but fuck if I’m letting someone treat me like that and not look for and find some damn answers.

    • In my case it was the OW that would do recon – rather she had her friends run in to us at restaurants. They are all co-workers. I remember meeting one “lady” that asked a bunch of questions about my injured knee and the surgery I would be having in a few days. Guess OW wanted to trust but verify that he’d be leaving me within weeks of the ACL reconstruction. The bitch had the nerve to friend me on Facebook several months later after I was served divorce papers the day before my birthday. I barely remembered her and asked how I knew her. She told me that we met at the Italian restaurant. Within a few weeks, I found out about Schmoopie through my own sleuthing (whore chaser had used frequent flyer companion ticket to take whore away on his birthday). Some quick emails to some decent co-workers of theirs and found out the restaurant spy was whore’s bestie. Lovely people, whores. Before I unfriended her, I went nuclear and posted the sluts name on my Facebook page where I am friends with many of their co-workers. Not classy on my part – but I felt the need to hand them back the bomb they handed me. The we met after drivel was dispelled in epic fashion.

  • While I hated becoming the spying type of person. I needed to see things otherwise I kept on holding on to hope.

    My discoveries were sooooo painful and his lies were so convincing, I needed that proof.

    • Exactly! I’m not the least bit embarrassed by my sleuthing. Having that proof ended the uncertainty & the mindfuckery. When I finally decided to leave I had no doubts as to exactly what & who I was leaving.

    • Yep, he always seemed so damn sincere. Always had a plausible excuse for some shady stuff, I had to find out the truth. Of course, nexh now says the reason he messed around is to get me to leave him because I was watching his every move. Of course I only watched him because I repeatedly caught him in scandalous situations with other women. Grrr

  • I was only able to survive 2 weeks as the marriage police. Thank God I found about my ex-wife’s other affairs at that point and gave myself permission to file.

    Policing the actions of the person to whom you’ve pledged everything, and the person you’re working to help save from themself, is unreasonably optimistic and profoundly dangerous. Like performing CPR on a wounded terrorist wearing a bomb vest. A noble impulse wildly misdirected.

    • Brilliant comment nomar.
      I used to face time the Fucktard when he was “working late” in order to see his surroundings.
      What a colossal waste of time, energy & emotion. I should have dumped the loser a long time ago.

      • “A noble impulse, wildly midirected.”

        Nomar, you just summed up the marriage, never mind post Dday.

        You are the George Bernard Shaw of Chumpery.

      • “Like performing CPR on a wounded terrorist wearing a bomb vest.”
        Hehe, some dating sites ask what is the scariest thing you’ve ever done. Maybe if I start dating again I’ll use that as my answer…

  • I also was told that he was living with a friend during our wreckconcilation. He would dutifully come to marriage counseling, declaring how much he was missing his life. And while I wanted to believe that my gut told me that I was still the back up plan. Phone tracking verified that my gut was right. I “watched” the whole affair unfold thanks to the tracking. It hurt, but helped me move on faster. Having him sit and lie to me over and over knowing it was BS made me see I had nothing to work with anymore. I kept the “evidence” in a file in case if was necessary for court. I didn’t need it to get my settlement. Turns out I just needed it to settle my mind.

    • My story – exactly – except I used that knowledge to confront them which I do NOT recommend. EVER. Ugh. Even though I do not need the saved evidence for court, I keep it just in case he ever tries to come back and I “forget” the extent of his dishonesty or infidelity.

      • Upstairs in my dresser is a pile of paper I saved to confirm to me the magnitude of what I went through…I just added a credit card bill I found to the pile last week and he has been dead for 3.5 years. I confronted too and the response I got was absurd…I wish I had had the patience to wait and do something more clever.

        • Ohh someday when you’re good and ready, I hope you burn all that stuff.

          I have a similarly heavy stack from first marriage and divorce and am getting ready to do that this week. (((HUGS)))

    • I was very conflicted about what to do with all the shit I knew about once I really started digging. My very-expensive lawyer gave me the excellent advice of “your goal is to get this settled without ever having to bring any of this up.”

      Now this may not work for everyone. I desperately want to tell him that the reason he just handed me a 6 figure settlement check was that his buddy at the bar has a big mouth and I know everything. I still want to call his Ho-Worker’s parents (she’s like 20 something). I know they already think she’s kind of a dud. I would LOOOOVVEEE to call her father and say “Hey, just a heads up your daughter is a home wrecking whore on top of everything else”. Just fucking go scorched earth.

      But what does that get me. Nothing, it extends the drama when my goal is to close the book on that part of my life. It slows progress to Meh. It takes up time and energy that I DEFINITELY need to be spending on any of the projects I need to focus on to take care of myself as I move on with my new cheater free life that I have gained.

      • I think in my case her father already knows, but is as money hungry as she is. After all my ex is close in age to her father. And in my opinion if her father knew and approved of her fucking someone else’s husband they are all wackadoodle and can have each other. My ex’s father on the other hand has no clue … only the varnished version he gave them.

        • I would love to tell his father as well. His father is nice guy and he would probably be shocked and embarrassed for him. But it doesn’t matter.

    • God, some fucked up shit these cheaters do. Talking out both side of there mouth, I love you and miss you… OW, I love you and miss you. Why? the world will never know.

  • I did quite a few things, too many to remember now. But fuck him, wish I’d just walked away immediately, like I did at first. But I think if you have a child, nine times out out of ten, you will at least try to reconcile.

    Anyway, fuckhead had a flip phone and it had call logs on it. Possibly text logs as well. It would show total usage , like 880 minutes used July 11, then 1000 minutes used July 12. Then individual call info. So I would get up, in the middle of the night, write down this info, determine he was deleting calls, and how many and how long those calls were. Clever, huh, lol?

    • @Anita–
      Hmmm….I didn’t even think about checking the call logs back in the flip phone days, damn it! The few texts he accidently didn’t delete and I found were enough. They were spaced out by many months and it confirmed he never stopped what he said he had stopped.

      • There weren’t many resources to catch these turds back in the flip phone days so I had to make do.

        I remember one day I was reading an RIC article about “Dealing with Triggers”. I was about done with the loser anyway, but everyone was talking about how to deal with the cheater say, talking on the phone, emailing, you know doing Normal Stuff. I suddenly realized that this could never be successful for anyone. The Cheater IS THE TRIGGER. The big Rotty nasty dead thing stinking up the car. You can’t get rid of that smell til you get rid of the source of the smell.

  • One day, I just walked away from that shit. Now, THAT was clever. The person who said you can never get rid of the smell of that dead, Rotty thing in the back seat was 1000% correct. And those dead Rotty things back there better realize once you quit “snooping ” on them, it usually means you are truly do not give a fuck. I also think it’s secretly thrilling to them to be watched, like they are James Bond or something. More like Austin Powers, actually.

    • You are on to something, there. Cheater ex and hobag seems to have got off on being watched-all in the Game, to them-Schmoopie was family, had every reason to be there.

      I played detective AFTER Dday, when I found all the evidence I needed-six months of FB IMs of canoodling. Because where I lived the duration of any affair was materially relevant to settlement, I needed to know how long, so I did Austin it up. But, of course he lied -to me and his lawyer, so I got screwed, financially. Eventually, my DD found out the whole truth on accident. It had been years-anything up to 16, they have known each other that long. He isn’t as classy as Dr Evil, either….

      So before dday, I was living with the Rotty smell, I just seemed to be able to create a lot of rose scented spackle.

  • I went thru his papers, phone, and car. That sick feeling in my stomach, not about what I found (which I already knew about anyway), but about what I was doing and how I was doing it – being sneaky, lying to get what I wanted, secretly hating him, made me realize that I was just done with the whole shitty situation. I wasn’t going to turn into him to save some sham of a marriage.

  • I admit this might make me look like a psycho but I was frantic after Cheater left. Cheater claimed he moved into an apartment as he needed to “find himself,” and wasn’t “messing around.” My intuition told me other wise. He had made a decoy female friendship at the gym who I suspected was his AP. after some research I found out he used her to throw me off his trail.
    Cheater is a member of Map my Run, he has a username he likes which is the same as his personalized license plate. I put in the username and up popped an address in a nearby town where he had mapped his runs. I googled the address and her name came up. I researched their names on local running events and found photos of the two of them together.
    I never confronted him about their relationship as he would have denied it anyway. Looking back I wish I hadn’t kept the evidence to myself. Finding out gave me the satisfaction of knowing my suspicions were right. I discovered Mr. Integrity, John Boy, squeaky clean image is far from who he claimed to be and who he presents to the public.

    • So difficult when all you want is an answer- so you can get on with your life. The decoy affair partner should get its own chapter in the handbook. (Maybe it already has)

      • Nowdeadhusband threw a decoy at me…he told me he didnt love me and had long been in love with an old girlfriend from college (Kelly from Chicago who he had no contact with) …all the while he was sneaking and in wuv with Susan of Seattle (howorker)

    • “Finding out gave me the satisfaction of knowing my suspicions were right.”


      When my ex told me he was having an emotional affair, he wouldn’t tell me who it was. I threw a name at him, but he didn’t verify. Instead, he said, “I’m not sure if I want to tell you.” Never told me why and I didn’t ask.

      Instead, when he wasn’t around, I sat down at his computer and looked at his desktop. It was the only non-business, non-‘normal’ (like Word or Recycling Bin) that looked out of place. I opened it up and there it was!

      And yes, I was right about who it was. I didn’t read everything, but I read enough. They exchanged a few pictures, but I really didn’t look hard enough to see if anything was X-rated.

      I DID however see something that struck me. She used to complain that her husband would accuse her of wearing revealing low-cut tops exposing her very voluptuous cleavage in order to get male attention. She denied this, of course.

      I’ll give ChumpNation three guesses about what kind of tops she was wearing in the pictures she sent my MALE ex b/f…..!

    • You shouldn’t feel bad, IMO. I’m very impressed with your research process. You did what you had to do to prove to your heart that your head was correct.

      Reminds me of something I read on this site recently. I don’t know if these are the exact words, but basically it said that if your head and heart are in conflict, listen to your head because your heart is stupid as fuck. This fits me well. I should have it tattooed on my arm.

    • Prince Charming uses Mapmyride and I used it to do present evidence that he wasn’t the stand up all encouraging father to our Austic son he claimed to be. I used it to show he cancelled lunch dates at the last minute with him to go on rides the same day. So yeah, Prince Charming has a whole lot of people convinced that he is Mr. Wonderful full of integrity, honesty, lend a helping hand when it is nothing but bull shit. Oh and did I mention he and Cinderella met when he was a District Chairperson for the BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICAN and she was a paid professional? She got fired for crossing the line with a volunteer. Imagine that.

  • I didn’t marriage police, but I used their pathology against my then H and his AP. After DDay, I found out that my then H used lying as his favorite problem solving strategy. I went NC at that time, and only communicated with him via email. He asked multiple times to meet and talk, but I refused every time.

    A few months post-separation, things were getting heated with my then H, he was not producing documents of the discovery process (how surprising [insert disabused head shake]). On a whim, I emailed the AP and my then H separately, asking for elements of their affairs “to help me better understand them.” The questions were all about them, all about understanding how to move on from this situation.

    I never thought it would happen, but each of them sent me several paragraphs of poor sausage confessions via email, neither of them knowing that the other was doing exactly the same. I’m still recovering from how traumatizing it was to read their disgusting accounts of their affair, of how they objectified me while stabbing me in the back repeatedly. Proof that they both sucked… Big time.

    They were both irate when they found out how stupid it was of them to give me written proof of their disgusting character. Throughout the divorce process, I drew strength from their confessions. Now peace comes from the fact that it will never be my word against theirs. They can’t re-write history, I can share their own affair pretzel logic with a little or as many people as I want to, including our kiddo when she comes of age.

    For new chumps, my advice is DON’T BE NICE. Hire a PI, get proof of as much as you can, and take advantage of the temporary shame your spouse might feel when they are discovered to get even more written proof of their wrongdoing. It hurts like hell but you can use these as evidence in court and to help you in your recovery.

    • That was incredibly brave although it must have been heart wrenching, really going through fire.

    • FinallyAwake & Tempest, thank you!

      Indeed, going through my divorce felt like a slow descent through hell and I keep gobbling up shit sandwiches as I have several more years of parallel parenting ahead.

      I am very grateful to the CN community and especially to CL for having created and for keeping this community going. I have no idea where I would be without you guys, you’ve kept me sane through the worst of my divorce ordeal, and now you all keep me going as I forge on to Meh!

      Thank you CL/CN, from the bottom of my heart.

    • Reading their replies must’ve been gut wrenching. Dodo was an idiot. The day he left he sent his mom an email telling her he was leaving and naming the affair partner. My wonderful MIL forwarded the email to me for my lawyer. Bless her!

  • After the first Dday and he confessed and “came clean” he gave me all of his passwords to everything. I changed the passwords and set myself as the emergency backup email, phone number to verify log in, etc. He just went deeper into hiding with his first and when I discovered the motherload I saw that they were referring to me as Columbo because I was so sleuthy. And still, I kept trying to resuscitate the terrorist. When he started things up with the second one, I started getting alerts from all the accounts that passwords had been changed. You know the rest.

    • Any account you have been given access to by the cheater is useless. If they know you have access or the password, they will just set up a new account on a different email provider. You can do that in about two minutes. I set myself up a whole new identity once, just to see how hard it would be. Like I said, takes about two minutes.

    • @ RightBrained—them calling you “Columbo”….assholes.

      That just reminded me: all of the sudden POP became infatuated with a CD he’d burned. In particular, an Elvis song on it, Suspicious Minds. I had never liked that song, never. Not a fan of Elvis…. He played it constantly and it drove me fucking crazy.

      I then came to learn he and his sumo wrestler looking ho called me “Suspicious Mind”.

      I got my hands on that CD and broke into a zillion pieces in front of him. Also did the same to his favorite porn CDs 😉

  • I did most of my ‘leg work’ prior to Dday, including the PI. Afterward, during wreckconcilliation, I kept the gps tracker on his car, counted viagra pills, etc. For the most part he turned everything over to me & ‘behaved’ himself, but still trickle-truthed about the past.
    I required him to take a polygraph as part of the agreement to stay & try to reconcile. Prior to the test I actually wrote out a list of over 50 questions & gave him 2 days to turn in his assignment. This was to give him the chance to be honest & up front before the poly. He had no idea which questions I’d choose for the test.

    In hindsight, he could’ve been the saint of all saints after Dday & it still wouldn’t have been enough. He cheated. The end.
    But at least I gave it a go & have xero regrets or ‘what ifs’ swimming round in my head.

    • I’m with you. I also gave it a try. What it came down to was me accepting that he cheated and I could never trust him again. That was his end, but my beginning.

  • Here’s a peak into my insanity:

    – first discovered odd phone numbers on the cell phone bill… Googled them and they led to Craigslist hooker ads

    – checked phone and found text messages confirming appointments for times I was away

    – installed “spyware” on his computer – Mr. Sparkles had a pristine outbox/inbox… but never was one for taking out the trash… found 9 months of history where he was responding to ads… some indicating he was Bi MWM looking for a couple… others wanting dinner/movie/great sex… others looking for BBWs looking for a “Daddy” relationship…

    – hotel room receipt – he had told me he was going to shoot pool

    BUT – because I never actually caught him having sex… I thought “well maybe I caught him before he could actually go through with anything”

    In marriage counseling (that I scheduled)… he did none of the “homework”… and it took 6 appointments at $175/hour for him to admit that he sent the emails.

    MC suggested Mr. Sparkles get a blood test and wear a condom as part of earning back my trust. He didn’t, but I still stayed – though our marriage became sexless (my punishment for not trusting him).

    He gave me his pay stubs – but in his industry, he can have 2 stubs one week and 3 stubs another week, so i quickly gave up on that.

    Frankly, I looked at my then 3yo son and said, “I’m not willing to give you up every other weekend.” And, I put my head down and built a “life” around all this insanity.

    Even now – 18 months past D-Day and eyeballs deep in a divorce while he dances off into the sunset with OW, I have “doubts”.

    I found an Adult Friend Finder ad in 2015 that he had posted in 2014… I’m not trying to subpoena the account details to yet again PROVE that he was cheating….

    When will my own need to sleuth and have proof that he IS A CHEATER AND A LIAR end and the truth sink in to the core of my bones.


    • I saw the texts and made screenshots so that I could keep them to remind myself, when I’d start thinking this was all a bad dream, that he truly sucked.

      He’s married the OW now. In the meantime, I’ve put the house address on my real estate apps so that when the house goes up for sale (and it will, as he has zero money for basic maintenance), I’ll find out.

      I’m divorced for 8 months, and out of the marital home and in my own place for 3. I’ve blocked Cheater and Schmoopie from my social media. It’s a bit weird not having a lying, cheating POS around the house. While I was cohabitating with him, I’d find myself hypervigilant about his comings and goings. I discovered that even after I’d told him I knew about the affair, even after I filed for divorce–he’d still feel the need to lie and sneak around.

      I think it’s hard to stop that behavior cold turkey. That’s why No Contact is such a blessing!

      • Yes, yes. I am still recovering from the trauma of living with a cheater in this way. NC gives me such peace of mind.

    • ICanSeetheMeh–would you advocate that a sister stay with someone who had treated them the way your X treated you?

      And children don’t benefit from having the sane parent be broken and anxious. I know this from personal experience–my mother (a fabulous parent) was sucked dry by my narcissistic father, and I am a much better parent divorced than I was married to someone trying to suck the life out of me.

      • Thank you Tempest… that is a good reality check. I wouldn’t wish what I was living through on my worst enemy – well, maybe the OW. But you’re right, the proof is there and my son deserves a chance for a better home life.

    • ICanSeeTheMehComing!, you will stop and believe when you realize what you are doing is hurting you. You already know, it really is time to stop it. It becomes an obsession that doesn’t help you at all. Stop it, make a decision to put away the tools and concentrate on you and your kid. Jedi Hugs!

      • You’re right – I’m still making him the center of my universe by not letting go. I know in my heart he is a truly evil person and his behavior won’t change for the OW. It’s almost like being a Titanic survivor, you have to accept that you lived and make the most of the life you’ve been given. Hugs back 🙂

  • I think there needs to be a distinction made between “responding to calls” — overtly reacting to suspicious behavior and dealing with the accused directly — and “investigating” for the purposes of building a case. The former likely just guarantees that the cheater will try to find alternate, more secret ways to commit his/her offenses. The latter can be very empowering and productive for the chump.

    Investigating was the best thing I could have done — it laid bare the truth I needed to have in order to finally stop pick me dancing.

    Had I not been policing on this way, I would not have seen the texting exchange that led to the confrontation of both my wife and her fuckbuddy as she waited for him IN MY BED for sex while my girls were in school.

    I also would not have found out that she had unprotected sex with at least one fuckbuddy and did not tell me about it; nor that she told another that a black eye she received from her BDSM friend was given to her by me after an argument; nor that she was taken to the emergency room during a weekend away with her newest fuckbuddy because of acute alcohol poisoning. All of this should be useful in our upcoming custody hearings. And even if I can’t use everything (accessing certain things without permission is considered a crime), all of this just helps solidify in my mind what a truly horrible person she is and strengthens the resolve to move forward without her.

    • Document document document. Even the smallest bit of info needs proof. Also, lawyers on this blog will tell you that every judge is different. I have dealt with religious fanatics and ones that hate long explanations and others that doze through testimony. Make sure your atty knows how the judge operates. It really does make a difference, especially in custody issues.

    • I’m hoping you get full custody. I know that what she did to you was horrible and unforgivable, but what she could do to your kids with her “life style” is forever damaging. If she even has one iota of care for your kids she will acknowledge what is in their best interest and give them to their sane and stable dad. If she doesn’t do this, show no mercy and do everything in your power to get them.

  • After the 3rd DDay, I had already given up. I didn’t do the counseling, or buy more books to learn what to do to save my marriage. It was dead. I felt it brake the morning he walked out the door and went on a cruise, that I would later find out was with an old GF.

    I did look at the phone bill, just to see if he was still calling her and he was of course. I just couldn’t play police. I didn’t have it in me and he had so many ways of lying and deceiving me. Like video chat, his fake facebook page, etc. I gave in and he was not worth it.

    • ChumpetotheMax, keep in mind that it wasn’t that you ‘couldn’t play police’ or didn’t have it in you or gave in. You straightened your spine and did the right thing by stopping policing and getting out of that dead relationship! You chose not to police, you chose to gain back your self-respect!

  • OMG…I done every single thing in the above blog. Staking out his work place and every other place he frequented, voice recorder, emails, phone records, Facebook…the whole works!
    Large part of my compulsion to verify, verify, verify was the whole 27 years of domestic violence and narcissistic abuse causing me to have no self esteem, lack of self worth etc. etc. With no idea what was happening to me until I found the chump lady in the wee hours of the morning!! Boom!! It suddenly started to sink in exactly what was happening and for that I am eternally grateful.
    Anyway, Ten months of the marriage police, pick me dancing, being abused physically and mentally, pleading for him to stop, more abuse, more abuse and more abuse, something clicked and I thought Fuck this shit! I’m done!!
    It has been the hardest and most painful thing I have ever done in my life…but I done it. I was actually dying in front of my family with a kidney injury due to anxiety, only seven stone in weight and my soul utterly crushed.
    I’m not there yet…but I have focus, a wonderful supportive family and a life to look forward to. With the support of Women’s Aid I am finally seeing that what I am leaving behind is something I should have left behind years ago. Never in my life will this history repeat and if I am entirely honest, I’m not sure what the outcome would have been had it not been for Google – ” infidelity and abuse” – Chump lady, then finding all you guys. Bless you all. Much love xx

    • Good for you, Betsy! And I’m so glad you found CL and CN and that helped you get out. Isn’t this the best???

      • Karen, I honestly was living a life of crazy with abuse and was so isolated until I found CL and CN. It took about 4 days of reading almost every archive and much did soothe me that I wasn’t going insane xx

    • I’m so glad to know that he didn’t abuse you to the point where you could get out, which often happens. It’s horrifying and scary to get out, but more horrifying and scary to stay. I’m so happy you found the strength. I’ve had women come to me years after I got them to a shelter and tell me how much their life has improved. I still think of those I couldn’t help. I look forward to reading your journey to recovery and happiness.

  • It didn’t take much detecting on my part to locate his stash of her naked photos and a downloaded document of their texting via a chat app that he had emailed to himself. No kidding, that document was over 100 pages of the most stomach churning, head spinning vat of vileness that I wish now I could have physically scrubbed from my brain. Once he discovered what I had in my little PI hands, he wanted to go over it with me, page by page. Have me read the whole disgusting thing in front of him so he could explain what was going on in his head during each and every nauseating conversation. Stupid chump me actually considered this not for the faint of heart exercise before I came to my senses and realized that I would probably only get to page two before finding myself wanting to stab the a-hole in his love rocket. How could he seriously explain a conversation about her wanting to “suck him dry???” My therapist later confirmed the appropriateness of my decision by telling me the only one who would benefit from that asinine task would be him.

    After suspecting that there was an OW number 3 I found myself signing up for the same chat app he had used with OW 2. After locating her phone number in his phone log I added that number to my phone so that I could watch them log in and out all day long to chat with each other. I kept thinking, holy cow, how do either of them get anything done, they are on this app all day long, even when he was in class! Yeah, now I see the irony of that statement since I didn’t get anything done either cyber stalking their chat fest every day for weeks. As an extra benefit, my brain went into overtime creating imagined conversations between them which really fucked with my head. I can’t really remember how long that brain fuck went on before I decided I needed to delete the app from my phone because it was really starting to affect my daily life. I did eventually delete it and then re-downloaded it a couple more times before thankfully my sense of self-respect kicked in and I realized I was wasting my life getting sucked down into his pit of slime.

    For me, policing our relationship became an addiction. My drug of choice was him, deciphering his cryptic mannerisms and unraveling his series of lies. I think that I experienced a sort of withdrawal when I finally stopped being the marriage police and became a self-preservationist for my own well-being. I certainly don’t miss the stomach lurches that came with the day-mares I created in my brain about him and his lady friends.

    • Done 4Good, that’s a sick mother fucker you had there. Him and his Unpaid Prostitute deserve each other.

      • I became really proficient at tracking down his cheater activities but believe me it’s a skill I really wish I didn’t have. It’s exhausting work and I didn’t like the person it was turning me into. Once I had the proof I should have used it to move on instead of trying to prove over and over to myself that he really couldn’t be this monster that would continue to disrespect me and our family. I was wrong.

    • Done4good. You are so much better at writing than me, i find it hard to put in words. Your story could be mine…a carbon copy really. Pictures of her genitals amongst other filth. Gut wrenching stuff and certainly not pretty!! She was following me around putting nails in my tyres, goading me on Facebook. The final straw was her 55 screen shots she sent me of their filthy vile chat. I get that addiction, compulsive searching and relate to your post so much.
      I wish you well and a better life without the insidious abuse xx

  • I became the marriage police the day after my wedding. My narc husband triangulated me and his adopted cousin the day after our wedding reception. Told me she secretly liked him but since they were “adopted cousins” -it would be weird -I won the prize of him I guess! The love bombing stopped that day and we went on our honeymoon cruise the next day. He ignored me and gave me the silent treatment on a cruise ship honeymoon where I knew no one but him. It was the beginning of a very lonely marriage.

    I desperately tried to get my “nice guy” back. That started 20 years of being the marriage police for me. I thought my love was enough for him. When we had kids a year later -it got worse. I caught him going on chat lines and he promised never to do that again. So he took it underground and got away with it for 18 more years. The mindfuck, lying, devaluing were tortureous.

    When d-day hit -I was in shock. We tried reconciliation but I couldn’t function and cried every waking minute.
    We tried a mc therapist who diagnosed him as a sadist. Turns out we were a fake family that was a cover for his sick shit.

    I found chumplady, a good therapist and planned my exit. I Lined up my ducks, secretly filed for divorce and got the fuck out. He underestimated me and never saw it coming. He lost his emotional punching bag who loved him and had no clue how disturbed he was. Now that I was hit in the face with reality – I didnt want to be the marriage police anymore. I lost all trust in him. I didn’t have the strength to know the sick details of his double life. I always knew he was an asshole, but I was committed and excepted my life for what it was. The little bit that he confessed to was enough to wake me up to the reality that he is a covert narc and he was encapable of ever loving me.

    He is pure evil hiding behind a “nice guy” mask. I am working on myself now, staying nc as much as i can with teens and “gaining a life”. I will never put up with that kind of evil nonsense ever again. He can -and will- burn in hell and I don’t have a fuck to give.

    • Your ex is a horrible person. I don’t understand why he got married, only to treat his partner like total shit, shut them out and ignore them. Dude, don’t get married, and then live the life of a hermit and shut out the entire world. I never get people like this, who enter into a union, only to completely disassociate from their partner. Your ex is really a sadist.

  • I drove the dead corpse around for years CL. And he did have an explaination for everything. I believed. I was an optimist.

    Gathering evidence became a job in itself. The almighty blamed everything on the other women. Supposedly they persued him.

    I was conned for years and once I knew the truth as he left evidence in plain sight I stayed for the wrong reasons.

    I lived most of my life with a covert narcissist who enjoyed demeaning his wife and mother of his children.

    Someone asked why THEY got married if they were so unhappy. That is a good question and it’s part of the con.

    First cheaters are cowards. The Limited never paid taxes or health insurance. He would have had to pay child support and alimoney so it was for financial reasons.

    Admittedly it was ALWAYS in his own words, the thrill of the chase. Drunk, stoned, and addicted to porn this was a man who preyed on women. I believe he hates women.

    It was always about power and control. I was his object. No one else could have me. He wanted to keep me for image control. I became the REASON he cheated. He used me in his narrative to gain pity from each and every victim.

    There were NO consequences or boundaries. Once he gained control he upped the anti. My needs were so small it became a way of life.

    It’s hard to understand this pattern of abuse once it becomes a lifestyle. There was no one to validate or guide me out. I couldn’t do it by myself.

    Trust your gut. Cheating is the tip of the iceberg. Let it end there. Know your own truth. File. RUN.

  • Some of us become marriage police in order to try and control the situation, to convince ourselves that “they’d never do that” or “see, he’s changed!” That was me after DDay#1, back in 2008. It was “trust but verify,” but the verifying part was crazy-making. I had GPS tracking on his phone (things weren’t so fancy back then), with his permission (what a chump), but he always “forgot” to take his phone with him, or he’d be out “running” in an area that just happened to be near AP’s workplace. I remember using my lunch hour to drive past APs house, my heart racing and my hands shaking the whole time, rummaging through his car while it was parked outside his workplace, leaping into action if I noticed he’d left his phone open while he was in the bathroom. Every time something seemed off, he’d explain it away, or give me bullshit like “she just wanted to talk because…” I could never prove anything, that he was still cheating, or that he wasn’t. So I chose “innocent until proven guilty” and put my head deep in the sand again.

    I wish I hadn’t clung so tightly to hopium back then; I was so blinded by it.

  • Prior to dday I never snooped, didn’t have a reason. X knew I trusted him completely and left everything open. No passwords, no lock on his phone. After he ran off I checked the phone records and dumped the phone he left behind. I knew by this time it was over, I only checked to see how long it had been going on. I refused to take him back and stopped snooping because I knew enough and it was to painful. Pandora’s box had been opened and I had and still have many aha moments that totally suck. To me it doesn’t matter how many women or how many times. The first fuck was enough for me to know I deserved better.

  • I was never a snoop except when i felt it necesary such as lying to my face and i know your lying. Occassions with kids sometimes. But me trusting asswipe was dumb after all he had done it before but a twenty year cheating free time well i trusted him again like a fool.

    The wallet, his car and above all his toolbox was a treasure trove. Ladies always hit the toolbox.

  • I got a software that logged screen shots and keystrokes on our computer. I hated that I did that but I didn’t know how else to know the truth. He had lied so many times and was so convincing. The proof was all there in a matter of days he has hooked up with a stranger off adult friend finder at 2am. Came back like nothing had happened. What a complete sociopath. Who does this? I’m very relieved to be out of the marriage but I am very lonely. Being lonely is better than being cheated on!

    • You’re right – – I’m extremely lonely as well., but I’ll take that over being treated badly by someone who didn’t deserve me. Not sure how to get past the loneliness. Unfortunately, I allowed dickhead to cut me off from the few friends I had. I get out and do things, but it seems that people my age have cliques that were formed many years ago, to which others are not welcome. I’ll keep trying, though. And I’ll never be lonely enough to take shit off of someone again.

      • Yes, I am lonely, too. When you have been isolated, it’s difficult but important to get out there and make connections. I agree with Peaceful about being better off and feel it is better to sleep alone than with a snake in your bed!

        • Sorry to interject, but I like to be helpful, and the word “lonely” got to me.

          I’m not one to be with a lot of people … I enjoyed the company of my husband and my family. We had friends, but they’re either Switzerland friends now or on his side (he’s doing a good job painting me as the crazy). I get lonely, but I don’t really want to make new friendships. I’m kind of burnt out.

          I find that belonging to a group that has no time for cliques is really good …. like a choir or a theatre group … something very right-brained that distracts you from thinking of anything else while you’re doing it, and an activity that doesn’t involve chit-chat amongst people. You’re not making close friends necessarily, but you’re surrounded by like-minded people who are busy creating something beautiful. After a night of music or theatre, coming home to peace is soothing, not lonely, I find.

      • Chumps have to make new connections to get through this. Start a chump meetup in your area (go to the forums, top R on this page, and there is a Chump Meetup section). Volunteer somewhere–animal shelter, park cleanup, soup kitchen on Thanksgiving. As Champ suggested, join some activity you enjoy that also permits interaction–hiking group, reading group, Scrabble group, nerd night, anything. The best friendships are forged around common interests, and sometimes that can take months of repeated contact to develop.

      • During my final round of police work I discovered his newly created Ashley Madison account and his defense to me was, “I’m really lonely and I need to talk to others who understand what I’m going through.” He’s lonely. Yeah I understand the loneliness I told him. I mean, what’s more lonely than loving someone who would rather open themselves up to some piece of trash with no moral boundaries than with the woman who devoted her life to him, bore him a child and never once even considered stepping across those moral boundaries?

        • “I’m really lonely and I need to talk to others who understand what I’m going through”


          “I’m really horny and amoral and I need to spin fake trumped up stories to other really horny amoral liars, so I can get my rocks off”.

    • I’ve done meet up groups. I googled hiking and got connected to local hiking clubs. You just meet at a location and go. Talk is not necessary but I enjoy talking to strangers because I find there are very interesting people outside my own sphere. It’s great to get out and enjoy area trails I wouldn’t have otherwise visited.

  • It depends on how much gas lighting is done. I did it all, I think. Computer tracker, car tracker – (he even took our pet bird to her apartment, bird easily identified the correct apartment upon being called.) Dumpster diving — and got her name, got her husbands name – got more truth.

    A PI I spoke with told me he could not have done it better, quicker or with more accuracy. You know what that got me? The truth. All the house of cards of the affair fell – I was more than delighted to kick out the bottom row.

    Besides the truth for exposure – I know that’s a controversial topic, too – It gave me peace of mind. I never went back, never wanted too.

    I was one of those JUST SURE my cheater was just caught up in a misunderstood mess… what an eye opener that was.

    • Wow, I doubt the PI would have known how to verify with your pet bird!!! Just wow. You’re amazing. Impressive, really. Sorry he sucks. You deserved better. We all did.

  • The whole cops and robbers thing is so emotionally exhausting. I played cop for a while, and it only took about 3 weeks to get a pretty good picture about what was really going on the past few years. They think they’re smart, but they’re not really that smart. I found out plenty in a short amount of time, but I know I only scratched the surface. I know there’s a mountain of bullshit out there that I still have no idea about – but I don’t have any desire to figure it out anymore. I got depressed, tired and quit.

    And as tiring as it was to play the marriage police for just a few weeks, I can’t even imagine what it took emotionally for her to carry on with a double life for what turned out to be years. Having to hide half of your life and lie on an almost daily basis. I don’t know how she did it. I’d have had a nervous breakdown years ago if I was her.

    There’s already so much that we have to worry about as adults and parents in life without having to deal with our spouse’s juvenile bullshit as well. Hiding money, sneaking around, coming up with cover stories, guarding your cell phone every minute of the day with your life. Who has the time or energy for that shit? You’d think that they would get tired of having to live like that as well.

  • Funny, but my then H did something nice which triggered me to check GPS to see where he was – that’s how I discovered his cheating! He told me he was working late out of town which was not unusual but he text me around 7pm to let me know he would be leaving soon so he’d be home around 10pm. Sharing that information was more considerate than he’d been in long time so I checked the GPS on his phone and discovered he was only about 20 min from our house. I spent the next 3 months gathering evidence of his cheating including hiring a PI to document when he was with her. I used the PI because I knew he would deny it and say I was crazy. Then with the help of my attorney, I kicked him out. I never told him about my evidence and he never asked how I found out. He begged for us to work things out but his actions were totally different. I continued to play detective and discovered a ton more – including his prostitute usage (and confronted him in the motel parking lot when he came out). He trickle truth’d pieces here and there about his many years of serial cheating but I’ll certainly never know the full truth. I hated playing detective and marriage police….worst job ever. But at the time it was a necessity.

  • Find my iPhone was the greatest app ever invented for chumps?. One night I tracked her down and found her and OM hiding in the bushes at the local Park at about 3am , must have got asked a 100 times after that, how I knew they were there, like really! Why does that even matter.

    Another time I transferred all her iPhone messages from the OM to the laptop and then read them all in 1 night , it was like 8000 vomit worthy was def a life changing experience, I knew exactly where I stood after that , Don’t look back , you can never look back.

  • I agree Blindside, it was completely exhausting to be the marriage police but it was also an obsession. The first thing I did was to go online and look at our cell phone bills and see that he had been talking to his coworker for very long lengths of time, more than a usual work conversation. In fact for HOURS. This was while he would barely say a word to me and I kept struggling to connect to him. Anyway, I saw that they had talked at 6 am on a Saturday morning. I thought back to that particular day and realized our son was home visiting and that he’d gotten up before everyone was awake to talk to his “coworker.” I remembered the times I went to help him at the barn after work and how he kept discouraging me from coming down, although he’d always said he would appreciate the help before. I saw one time when he was traveling and had a stop over in Atlanta. He called and talked to her during the 2 hour layover, while I remembered him sending me a text message that said “leaving now” as he got on the plane. When I told him what I’d discovered by looking at his cell phone records, he looked like he hated me.

    One night I was laying in bed thinking about the journal he was supposedly writing in for work. He had been furiously scribbling in it for awhile, and it occurred to me that I should try to find it. I slipped it out of his briefcase after he’d gone to bed and took it to the bathroom, where I read words that will forever be seared into my heart and soul. Everything that I’d suspected and been worried about for YEARS was there in black and white. I remember I couldn’t stop shaking. It was about 2 am but I went upstairs and woke him up and told him what I’d read, and he immediately started saying I didn’t understand what he’d written. Sure. I would say reading that journal was the worst moment of my life, but it was also the most freeing because it proved I wasn’t crazy to myself.

    After that I started combing through our credit cards and trying to trace down who’d he’d sent flowers to. Found out “we” had sent his coworker a lovely flower arrangement when she had her second child. So sweet. This was after I’d told him I no longer wanted to socialize with this woman and her husband because it was causing me too much pain to see how they acted around each other.

    There was never any smoking gun evidence that they were sleeping together, but he was definitely in love with her and intent on breaking up her family so he could have him to herself. He was actually plotting, and ingratiating himself with her children. He wrote that he was “planting seeds” to get her to leave her husband. Her children called him “uncle.” He pretended to be good friends with her husband. After we separated, he moved in with her parents.

    His mother told me this coworker was just a good friend who listened to him. I’ve always wished I could show her the document I found on his computer that says otherwise, but I know she would just say, “well, if he’d been happy with you he wouldn’t have fallen in love with her.” I suppose this is true, but I remember begging him to talk to me, going to counseling, trying to figure out why he was so avoidant and what I was doing wrong…when all along he was in love with someone else. It was like banging my head against a closed door.

    Once I exhausted myself looking for evidence I stopped. I didn’t know everything, but I knew enough to finally let go of the person I thought he was, and to start facing my future alone.

  • My husband stepped away from his work laptop with an unknown password and I quickly looked at it – the evidence was all there, in the deleted archived folder.

    But before that I had been such a chump! I truly believed he and AP were good platonic friends; once I thanked her for driving my STBXH to work when we were having car problems – I even gave her a hug! Wow, I am a chump!

    I don’t feel bad in some ways – I still think men and woman can be platonic friends and that these aholes are just that. As the betrayal sets in, I am learning not to lose my trust but to gain a cautious and realistic edge. Chump lady helps; thank you, everyone! Hugs to all of you!!!

  • Like I said here before, I thought I had a pretty awesome marriage. Really . . . no complaints. Was happy as a clam at high tide.

    The first tip off I received was out of the blue on Valentine’s day. I got TWO dozen roses. I texted him and told him about the “error” and he said that it wasn’t a mistake, that the flower place gave him an extra dozen because he had a coupon or some such. Now, this was a guy that never missed a holiday, birthday, anniversary; He was always buying me flowers. (At one point I had upwards of 50 vases in my basement of every shape and size you could imagine.) So his excuse seemed plausible, but my little ears had pricked up over it. I kept thinking, how does he fuck up an order after 11 years?

    Shortly after that, he tells me he needed to get his phone removed from our family plan because his work would pay the entirety of his bill if he was on their plan. I agreed, but yeah, that was another little twitch. It wasn’t like our family plan bill was so high that we needed that but, whatever.

    A few months later, we had made an action plan to really attack our credit card debt. No more credit cards, hit the bills hard, that was the plan. A month later, I get to the mailbox first on a fluke, and he has a brand new credit card in the mail. When I asked him about it, knowing we agreed to get our financial shit together, he said it must have been a mistake and they just sent him a new one on accident. I’m not that gullible, so the next day I hit RadioShack and got a VAR. (Side note: After I had secured that credit card, his father was kind enough to let him use his for his afternoon trysts.)

    I never used the thing, I was too paranoid that it would fall out from under his seat or something. Instead, I set up Find My IPhone on his phone. He had never bothered to set up an account so it was stupid easy. Literally two weeks later, I tracked him to a hotel room.

    I was never a marriage cop before this. I never felt like I had to. But after discovery, it was painfully easy to hack into his work account, his personal accounts, you name it. Because he never emptied his trash, I found there was at least 5 other women he had been fucking with during the length of the marriage. Two confirmed fuckbuddys, the other ones looked like he was throwing lines out hoping they’d bite. I also found out that right before the marriage, he had a will drawn up excluding me and including his kid. This would have been fine, except I had him and my kid as splitting my estate 50/50. Sigh. This was why I didn’t get involved with a pick me dance with this tool. There was just so much mind-blowing shit, I couldn’t get far enough away from him.

    So, if you have suspicions, go for it. I’m glad I found out what I did because it made it a hell of a lot easier to leave him.

    • Rumblekitty – It’s funny how the truth was leaking out a little at a time, and he kept covering it all up, saying it was all a mistake or error. All the shit he did is mind-blowing. Having sex with 5 other women during your marriage. Excluding you but including his kids in his will, when he was going to reap the benefits of your estate. Reading this sent chills down my spine. I am so sorry you had to go through this, he is a shitbag. I’m so glad you tracked him down and blew his cover, he totally deserved to get his ass handed to him on a platter. Had you not tracked him down, who knows what he could have done to you during the discard phase, and the damage he could have inflicted on you. I’m so glad you gut punched him first.

      • Me too! The OW has him now, but I’m sure has not a clue what he really is. And that’s spectacular, because when she finds out, Weeeeeeeee! He’ll get sloppy and she’ll find out she’s just a another of the nameless rabble of victims.

        For him to be a wonderful, doting, affectionate husband with me, and then have this completely secret side “hobby” of trying to snare strange, that’s pathological. Years of lies. And holy shit he was good at it!

        Looking back on it, I think if he thought he could erase me and get away with it, he would. But, no such luck mother fucker. 🙂

  • STBX still lives at home. I have contact with STBX’s OW’s STBX. And we kind of play the marriage police between us. But in reverse. We notify each other when our STBXs are out and about at the same time, so we can plan our alone time with our kids accordingly. I no longer care about what STBX is doing, except when he’s home, because he’s mentally abusive to me. So, for me, having the marriage police gives me peace of mind that I have x more hours to myself or with my kids.

    • “I no longer care about what STBX is doing, except when he’s home, because he’s mentally abusive to me.”

      These assholes are all so similar with their mental and emotional abuse. The time comes when they no longer want to be with us, and so they start the verbal abuse against us. They really do operate the same way, it’s unoriginal.

  • Ah yes, the marriage police stage. I knew it well. What did I discover?

    — Hand-written love letter recounting all his feelings for OW over many months, despite their agreeing not to leave the ones they were with (gross) and just remain each others’ side pieces (gross)
    — Her full name and the fact that she worked with him (easily found info on Facebook, which he tried to hide)
    — Multiple counts of lying about whether or not they were at the same location after work hours. He would say “No, she doesn’t even GO to that place and we definitely don’t go on the same night.” I just drove past the place, and photographed their two vehicles parked next to each other. Idiot.
    — Various lies easily exposed by pictures people were posting on Facebook (oh social media, why are people still so unaware that you exist and are always watching). For example, he would say “No, I wasn’t out at X place with Y person” and yet, there he was in the photos from the event with that exact person. Idiot.
    — After a couple weeks of this humiliation, finally the last straw was him leaving the house abruptly and leaving his laptop open. All I had to do was click “Sent” to see emails exchanged *while spending a romantic evening with me* (gross) all about how much he missed her, how much he couldn’t wait to see his “love” again, etc. Idiot. That pretty much diffused my desire to continue taking part in the pick-me dance.

    All of this with an infant on my hip. So much fun. -___- But life’s too short to keep it up for long. After that, during the divorce process I gathered continuing evidence of his various different relationships that were always posted very accessibly online after that, and kept a folder for my lawyer. Eventually I outsourced this to a trusted friend, just to save my sanity. And finally it became no longer necessary, except for the occasional snoop to find out what bizarre and dangerous circumstances he’s putting my child in when they’re together. I look forward to my child’s eighteenth birthday with much gusto.

  • I did as far as tracking cell phone calls. It wasn’t until I found the note from the OW begging him to chose “OUR life, OUR family, and OUR sanity” that I went to her apartment. That is when I found out he had been living with her since he moved out two and a half years prior. This note was found after he asked to come home because he wanted his family and marriage. Needless to say ugliness ensued.I called her the C*nt that she was. After all what kind of woman pretends to be your friend then goes after a man who is old enough to be her daddy. I found this out the day we came back from planning my elder sister’s funeral and we had signed reconciliation papers.

    I don’t think she knew about the reconciliation… she kicked him out, he came home like a dog with his tail between his legs begging me to take him back. I did, but made him sleep on the sofa, take an STD test etc. Had to cut off all contact etc. When he didn’t come clean about the STD tests, I knew he was still in contact with her or her family. So again, two weeks before Christmas the bastard moves out with a “work friend” again. Turns out it was her brother!

    Confronted him about his lies, he cried and said he never meant to hurt me etc…acting like the victim. When I caught him at her apartment 6 weeks later I told him to fuck off. I was done with him and his lies and he was welcome to her skanky ass.

    It only took 11 months for the whole thing to be final.

  • My Whore-Fucker made this really easy on me. For the (at least) 5+ years he was fucking whores during his lunch break, he was also posting on a whore/john website that detailed his experiences.

    About a year before D-day, my husband came home telling me he lost his wedding band. He seemed upset. I was upset (but not mad at him) and we discussed where he might have been that day that he could look for it. Did he check all round his desk? The bathrooms at work? Did you go to Starbucks in the morning? We retraced his steps…. he couldn’t find it.

    Then, that weekend, while I was working, he texted me a pic of his hand with the ring on. He found it! Said it was under his car seat. We were so relieved! For the next week or so, I would keep taking his hand and kissing the ring. Stupid, stupid chump me.

    After D-Day and finding this disgusting website, I found THIS post that he wrote the weekend of the ring disappearance:


    First I have to tell a story about the big boss at (Whore Web Site). Dave goes above and beyond to make sure his clients are happy. During my visit with Anna, I accidentally dropped a very sentimental (and valuable) piece of jewelry out of my pocket somewhere in the room. I didn’t realize it at the time as I was taking it to the jeweler for a resize. When I got to the jeweler I was flipping out ’cause it wasn’t in my pocket. I figured I must have drooped it in the room with Anna so I called Dave in a panic. He went right over to the room and looked for it on the floor, behind the bed, under the fridge, etc. He texted me back 20 minutes later and said he found it! I can’t say enough about his honesty and integrity. He has truly earned my respect. Running immediately over to the room and searching for a lost ring shows how much he cares about other people. I can’t thank him enough as this ring was irreplaceable.

    Now, my review of Anna…

    Her pics are accurate, she is a natural Swedish blonde with clear skin and bright eyes. Her conversation is interesting and witty… and has clean feet :rofl: If you ever wanted to fuck the chick from ABBA, she’s a pretty good choice for you. She even has a Swedish accent!

    This is my second time seeing her. Last time was just before she went on hiatus so I didn’t write a review. Not that she didn’t deserve it… she did, but she was leaving anyway so what’s the point, right?

    So here’s the particulars of the visit:
    DFK is passionate and she kisses like she means it. ALL the letters were covered with enthusiasm. She is clean and healthy looking, no sign of any shenanigans. She does “that thing I like” with gusto and she can take all you’ve got. She has big bolt-ons, but they’re on the soft side for those of you who like ’em soft.

    Here’s the numbers:
    Booking: Easy as always, 10
    Trust in the owner: 1000+
    Looks: If you like ’em tall and blonde, 9 (nobody gets a 10)
    BBBJ: not deep but still great, 7
    DATY: I like ’em big and sloppy, Anna is small and tucked in nicely, 7
    Front door: 8
    Back door: 10
    Voracity ©Alan Hunt: 10

    I would highly recommend Anna as well as EM.

    And again, Dave I fuckin’ owe you one, bro. Thank you.


    Seriously, people. This was my husband of 14 years. The man I thought I could trust more than anyone in the world.

    Of course he even managed to try and deny this one. Said someone wrote this because they knew he had lost his ring and were using it to promote the owners of the site. Ugh.

    So yeah, didn’t really have to call in Magnum PI to decipher what exactly was going on in my husband’s double life. Fuck me, two years out and I still can’t believe that this is who he was.

    • Wow GTT, your ex is a real psychopath. I’m so glad you are away from that piece of shit. Big hugs to you.

    • GiveTimeTime – OMG! I can’t believe it either. What a lying, cheating, slimy sack of shit. And posting that review as if he’s the expert on what just occurred makes me want to vomit, attributing numbers to that hooker. And “Booking, easy as always, 10” what a motherfucker. He had his foot so far up his mouth and ass, there is no way he could have denied that post. And all the theatrical acting of finding his ring under the car and feeling so happy he found it, kissing his hand, what a con-artist. I am so very sorry you had to through this, because had you not found out the truth, you still would have been with this piece of shit while he was continuing his vile existence. I am so grateful you are no longer with this evil snake. Scum all the way.

    • WOW. Thanks for sharing that piece of detail.

      Who the f— even ARE these men???

      WOW. Just, that actually happened. I want to tell you I’m sorry it happened to you, but instead I feel overwhelmed with something more like applause and triumph at your mightiness. ((HUGS))

      • Thanks guys. Sometimes I don’t know if it’s therapeutic to put this stuff here, where people can relate can read and comment, or if I’m hurting myself by revisiting.

        My “favorite” part of this particular post of his (and there were about 4,000 on this site alone) is that here’s this married asshole, MY beloved husband, fucking a whore up the ass during his lunch break…. but he actually has the balls to talk about the “honesty and integrity” of the pimp who went into the hotel room and looked under the bed to find his wedding band cuz my husband was “freaking out” about it. He actually writes about respecting someone who cares about other people.

        Im not sure if this is the dictionary definition of “irony”, or just something a lot, lot, lot worse.

        • GiveTimeTime – I noticed that too, and laughed about it. Yeah,he’s the one to comment on the honesty and integrity of the pimp. But these mentally disordered folk always side with the abuser, so I’m not surprised he’s praising the pimp. Just like he’s praising the hooker, stating she is clean with no shenanigans. He’s really fucked up in the head. I am so impressed at your mightiness for leaving him and divorcing his butt. I too would like to applaud you!!

        • I’m GLAD you posted it, and I understand that it may hurt you to revisit. What I’m hoping is that our reading it and getting clearer because of it, helps you to understand that your strength and courage in facing it again and sharing the story makes a difference for some other sufferer — and gives them strength and courage too, to get away from a bad partnership and to choose themselves.

          X always had great admiration for really nice people, too. Funny how those praises never extended to me, huh? I asked him to write me a letter of reference for an advanced studies program, once. Despite being the person who had most benefited from my experience and interpersonal skills, he couldn’t think of a single thing to say, and instead found a way to be too busy to do it. But no problem when it came to writing glowing praise about colleagues and “friends” he had worked with.

          If I could get into his internet history, I’m sure I’d find 4000 posts like those on some site like that as well. Instead I am just aware X is a canny expert liar, to what extent I don’t and probably will never know.

        • Here’s the thing GTT – by posting it and all of us commenting with our similar experiences if confirms at least for me, that it wasn’t just me that this kind of shit happened to.

      • Yep, I had to look that one up too — and if anyone ever compiles records of *my* search activity, *man*. As a parent and a woman, I hate that aspect of all this. How sordid, crass, pornographic, and ugly it all is, and right here in my own hands, my own brain. :/

    • GTT, holy crap! I am so sorry. He is so vile. How repulsive. Disgusting. Just not even human.

    • GTT–your X is an odious jackass who clearly thinks of women as nothing more than objects. So glad you are well-shod of him.

  • My ex was such an idiot, that D-Day consisted of him telling me he was taking his howorker home because she was “too drunk” and then me seeing on the “Find My Friends” app that he never left that whole night. He then trickle-truthed. I finally got it out of him, but our marriage was over by then. He didn’t block me on that app for weeks, so I could see where he was as he basically courted her and left me alone. He also never changed his computer password, so I could help myself to reading his imessages between him and everyone. I wasn’t proud of it and it made me feel horrible to know that I was being so sneaky and deceptive. But, I found out a lot from those messages-including just how sparkly their relationship was (you’d think they were the most unique and special snowflakes in the world-barf) and how shitty people who I thought were my friends were actually being behind my back. I also got a special view into how he was trying to triangulate with various people (including my church rector) because he couldn’t stand that I had gone no contact. In the end, I am glad I did it. It gave me everything I needed to turn away and never look back. Onto a MUCH improved life without a narcopath. Good riddance!

  • Give Time Time, That is absolutely awful. It definitely had to be a dagger to the heart….You never mention the name of the site!

    • I guess there’s no reason why I can’t mention it. It was independent One of a number of whore/john websites my ex husband utilized. On this particular site, he had approximately 4,000 posts.

      • Wow, 4000 posts….. I can’t imagine your shock. I understand what you mean when you say that you are not sure if telling your story prolongs your pain, but the comforting thing that I see from this site is the people with similar stories that can understand and empathize with your painful experience. I tend to find that the more I talk and cry, the better I feel until I no longer have those feelings. I sometimes force myself to mourn. There comes a point where the tears dry up and as CN describes, there is the MEH… Best of luck to you in your process of recovery from such deceit and heartache…

        • Once I keylogged Cheater and got his favourite passwords, I had no problem accessing his whore sites. He was stupid enough to use the same handle everywhere, so I even found some of his dating profiles by guessing and googling his handle, his password, and his email address. Silly twat hasn’t changed his passwords in almost five years.

          I can’t remember how, but I also got the password to OWhore’s ebay account. From this I got her address. I went by and took photos of the front windows of her apartment, and compared them to naked photos of her that she had up for sale. In those photos I found the same curtains as in her apartment, and his briefcase (which I gave him) in the background of the photos. So then I knew he was the guy who took the photos and that the little creep must have been as desperate for money as she was.

          I did some good sabotage by deleting his photo site content in several places. Since all his original photos (except the naked ones of OW) were on my laptop, he never got his collections back. I enjoyed throwing all his crap in a dumpster and shrugging my shoulders when the cops came around asking for the “rest” of his possessions. When I told the cop “how should I know where his junk is” the cop just smiled and said “good going”. They knew about the cheating.

  • D-day resulted from a check of phone call logs (including over 10 hours on the phone with a particular number while he was at a conference for a week, and >>I<>I<< did not give permission for him to do this, and implied I would sue their asses if they accepted his guarantee: SCORE! They denied her.) And much, much more.

    I am not at all ashamed of snooping.

    • Sorry – garbled. (you should NOT use abgle brackets on the internet!): should read:

      D-day resulted from a check of phone call logs (including over 10 hours on the phone with a particular number while he was at a conference for a week, and I only got a measy, begrudging 16 minute call sandwiched between two hour-ling calls to the OWhore.

      Googling the phone number got me her name (she has kept a low internet profile, but not low ENOUGH); searching her name on our home computer got me some sickening emails. Intellius (Paid) got me her address, family info, etc.

      The SMARTEST thing I did was to use Time Machine on the home mac to recover all the DELETED emails. (global searches, on the day by day archives, on her name, her phone number, her email address). THEN I got to read about her pregnancy scare, her IUD, her snarks about the other men she simultaneously dated and trashed to my husband. She was so freaked when she knew I had those emails that she BEGGED Fucktard to get them away from me, as I had had them “long enough for any LEGITIMATE purpose”

      I also found the email from the Apt managers at the place she was moving to, asking him to confirm he would financially guarantee her apt (she was unemployed). I contacted them and said that I did not give permission for him to do this, and implied I would sue their asses if they accepted his guarantee: SCORE! They denied her.) And much, much more.

      I am not at all ashamed of snooping.

      • Chchch….Unbelievable that we have to go through such lengths to uncover the truth. And then the discovery is so crushing and devastating. It really is a crime when cheaters put a “life sentence” on unassuming spouses. Soooo unfair! Anytime we begin asking ourselves WHY people cannot just be honest, there is no good answer! It seems like it’s so much harder to lie and cheat than to just say…look, I’d rather be single and play around

  • First, I checked our phone account to see that she texted the same number quite often (and late at night).

    Then, I read her phone texts and emails when she was asleep. She caught on and started deleting messages.

    Then I came clean! I said that I needed to have integrity; I needed to be proud of myself, regardless of her. So, I said “no more spying!” I believed that if I conveyed trust, then she would become trustworthy!

    She responded to this olive branch by leaving our joint Verizon account, as well as changing her phone password in front of me so I knew just where I stood!

    I soldiered on for 2 more months.

    And given nothing got better, and I still believed she was cheating, I went away one weekend and left a sound-activated audio recorder inside a binder on a bookshelf in our living room.

    Case closed. I filed one week later.

    I hate who I became trying to “find the truth.” I’m still embarrassed by my actions. I vowed never to do it again.

    I recently had a relationship I which my girlfriend had boundary issues. I’m proud to say that I didn’t spy in her. But I did struggle for a few months in trying to trust her, until finally I had to let her go. And I’m happier with that end than with being smarmy Detective JC. Never again.

    • Good for you. I hope that, if I ever date again, I can be strong enough to let go if I sense trouble.

  • I snooped on ex’s email twice, and both times I found exchanges between him and his latest AP. The second time I read all the emails and got to know all the shitty things he’d been saying about me behind my back. It ripped my heart out, which was both good and bad because it hurt like hell, but all I had to do to know I was doing the right thing by getting divorced was remember how he told Schmoopie how insecure and dependent on him I was. She said the same thing about her husband, and he eventually divorced her, too. Guess we weren’t as dependent as they thought we were.

    I only snoop when I think something’s up. If I’m wrong then I’ll feel bad, but so far I haven’t been. My daughter told me once that her dad told her “ignorance is bliss.” I told her that my motto is quite different — mine is “knowledge is power.”

    • Amen to that motto! When people lie, we have to find out the painful truth that we already know, but just can’t seem to face just with gut instinct alone. Sad, but we have to have a way of knowing that we are making the right decision to LEAVE.

  • One Friday night in January 1997 I woke up and he was on the phone in the family room talking to someone. I called down to him to ask who it was; he said a patient was in labor (he’s an OB/GYN). Next morning he goes to his office and I was going to run errands. But when I passed the family room, which was spotless the night before, there was a tall glass of water on the coffee table, and I wondered why such a BIG glass. How long was he down there just to talk to the patient and the labor room? That typically took 5 minutes. And why didn’t he talk on the phone in our bedroom, which was the usual case at night. We had a never-used extra phone in the family room, and I just looked at it, wondering. So I redial the last number, and it was NOT the labor room. Some sleepy voiced woman answered. So back upstairs I go, on his computer, he had hidden his password from me but in his excitement to get on one night he entered it in front of me and I remembered it. So I looked, and he had written to a woman “Is it OK if I call you”. Well, I went into Sherlock Holmes mode. Didn’t do my errands but went to Radio Shack and bought a voice activated tape recorder and a doo-hickey that plugs into the recorder and a phone jack. Recorded him the next day talking to her, saying what a good time he had in the motel on Long Island, which is not where we live, but she did. Next day I started copying stuff, made an appt with an attorney, and within 6 weeks left his pathetic ass behind. For a long time I felt guilty about violating his privacy because I am of the opinion that everyone deserves their privacy, but I also think that all is fair in love and war, and this was certainly war. Cause I sure lost my love for him pretty quickly.

  • I guess I better add that when I talked to my attorney, he said that I could be fined $10,000 per conversation taped and go to jail for this. So I stopped, but I had my proof. Cause I would never have believed that he could betray me so badly. And ex never wanted to make trouble for me about the tapes, because as an OB/GYN he would have lost patients if I exposed all his porn and cheating.

    • You are a strong woman, Valerie. I can never understand why people persist in “loving” another person when the trust is blown. Well done being so decisive.

      • Valerie, I must say that sometimes it’s as silly as that BIG glass of water that will make the most sane, trusting person have a doubt. I applaud you for acting so quickly!

        • Yes, ever since I found this site, I have learned the there is a “valid” reason for the signs we perceive and notice. Never again will I ever dismiss any signs which don’t seem right to me. If I’m doubting something, it’s because I’m a reasonable person and there better damn well be a valid explanation for all this. I am not sensitive, I am not crazy, I am not insane. This site has solidified trust in myself and my judgment. I don’t fall for gaslighting anymore either. I know damn well what someone said, despite the fact they deny it from here to Timbuktoo. You said buddy, I’m going to turn on the vice grip until I get the truth, deny it all you want. I am SURE of myself. So I am so grateful for this site, it has empowered me more than I could ever imagine! Thank you CL and CN!!!

          • Brilliant post, so inspiring. I’m putting it into my folder for Projection Is Real, aka “how to remember I’m not defective goods.” Thank you. Wow, thank you.

          • Thank you, Kellia. This really resonates for me. I would add to this, when you feel a creepy crawly sensation in your stomach/gut. I never really believed in “gut” instinct before, but I sure do now… and it actually freaks me out, some of the things in retrospect that it reacted to in my STBX. Most of them I’ve figured out. One or two others seem too extreme to be “real,” and yet… 🙁

  • Everything insurance had paid for while she used my insurance. Benefits covering procedures she otherwise wouldn’t be entitled to cus we weren’t actually legally married and she was committing insurance fraud (I had her listed as my wife).. But, because she is a class act manipulator she paid them with a check for the grand total and they got their money and she disenrolled herself from their program and the company delcared they wouldn’t press charges because she paid them in full. and everyone parted amicably.. Except me.. She wins again. No jail for her breaking the law, twice. She left and I couldn’t find her and her dad has all but blocked me on social media and my number cus he was tired of hearing about it. I then tried my hand at social media. She didn’t have any at this time either. None.. None that I can find and believe me I’ve tried.. She’s not on the friends lists of any of her friends of family.. They (friends and family) have no mutual friends so she’s not using a fake account to be friends with them both (I made a fake account just in case she’d blocked my name) nothing. (So, backtracking a bit, I had gone to the police after three days of not hearing from her and I was told that 1) there is no court order so she can take the child anywhere she wants. 2) its not kidnapping. 3) obtain an attorney).. Fast forward again. So she wins. At that time I was a bartender and didn’t make a lot of money, not enough to live and pursue this. So my sister and her husband gave me some money, (they literally threw money at me and told me to have as much as I need for the best attorney!) I finally get an attorney who refuses to take my money but listens to my story and tells me the way it is. She won’t be prosecuted for anything because nobody wanted to force the issues (bigamy and insurance fraud) seeing as nobody (except me) was out any money. She paid the insurance company thereby making restitution. They (ex and company) have an agreement not to press charges.. They we’re happy. I was told that her ex husband can now follow through with his own divorce, so he was happy. And she sent a check to the county we were married in, the total for what the fine would be for lying on the marriage license, and they declined to proceed with any criminal case. So everyone got some money. The the attorney tells me that she can take the child anywhere she wants, we weren’t married when she was born and even if we had been she could still abscond with her. Barring a court order it’s not illegal to move away and not tell anyone.. Even the father. The attorney tells me that there is nothing the state can do. The attorney at the time said I can track her down and pay every private detective, Investigator, currier, legal and attorney’s fee if I want, but even the cheapest of services will run my around a total of 20,000 because this was going to be a huge endeavor.. And she’d still get to keep my kids. And I’d pay support. The worst part about trying to gain some footing was she kept a watchful eye of everything. I don’t know how.. But she was always one step ahead and learned from her mistakes fast.. She can work the system.. Time and distance have befriended her. About six months after she left (before she gave birth), she legally married her love.. He is now the father of MY baby, not biologically but legally, cus they married before she had the baby. I don’t know the dates but it had to be close.. Her ex husband got a divorce by publication and she obtained the copy of divorce decree her now ex husband arranged and paid for so THIS marriage to her love is set in stone and legal 100%.. So all of MY hard work tracking her ex down only helped HER.. She wins. Fast forward to now. A few years later. I found out that she came back for her sister’s wedding and I found out only after she was here that her last name and her name on her identification card was different. She was in the wedding party in the newspaper announcement. She had always refused to take my last name, in all that time. Said it was her identity.. Before we married even, she gave our daughter her last name.. So I begged her sister to tell me just is she married. She said ‘yes, she’s happy, everyone has moved on and you should to’. She has a social media account now.. I Cannot see anything except her name and a cover photo.. A picture of a baby. Not either of my kids so I guess she and her love have a new baby.. I found her after I looked for her using her first name and the last name of her love.. I don’t even know how old my baby is. When s/he was born. I don’t know if it’s a boy or a girl. My ex keeps very guarded and private.. The social media account is probably to impress his family.. Cus hers isn’t on her list.. I have never even seen the baby and I cannot remember what my daughter looks like except for in two photos. We never did social media so I don’t have troves of fb photos too look at. My kids were my parents only grandchildren. My sister’s son died at birth and they cannot bring themselves to try again. My mom passed away a year ago. My ex left about 4 years ago so my daughter is now established, in school I’m sure.. I’m here tonight because it’s been a particularly painful one and I have nowhere else to turn. I found out two weeks ago through an investigator I hired with the very last dimes I had to rub together (I work thirty hrs a week in a factory, quit school, lost my friends, drink too much maybe, don’t sleep or eat anymore, barely make enough to keep the lights on), my daughter was adopted.. The records are sealed and will remain sealed.. He legally adopted her.. My mom passed away and and the house sold, so my ex probably just claimed I couldn’t be contacted.. She divorced me from my child via publication and she crossed every T and dotted every I. The last attorney I talked to said that she just waited til I fell apart.. She has been watching, I dont know how but she has ears here still. All we have access to is the petition of step parent adoption via publication. There is no minor child listed, just the ex’s legal name.. And her husband’s. There is documentation listed on the petition, but the documentation isn’t made public. The documentation likely states that the mother couldn’t contact the father in the county she last knew him to reside.. I moved away after my mother died and my father went to live with my sister.. I moved only three hours away. It was bid to throw myself back into school but that crashed and burned.. But it was counties over so she was telling the ‘legal truth’ I guess, that I couldn’t be served to appear in court.. She even sent someone to serve me at my old job that I had when we were together. She knew nobody there would know how to contact me.. I didn’t have friends to begin with and when I left the job I didn’t stay in touch with anyone. And she never knew where my sister lived out of state. My sister always visited us.. So she was covered, covered and covered.. Her husband true love is a DOD contractor now. They’ve left the country and moved to a beautiful exotic place with my kids (last night, after I begged for tue truth, her sister told me in my final plea that my ex is living on an island and she’s a stay at home mommy and her husband is a good man, that the kids are happy and she’s a ‘soccer mom’. Wouldn’t tell me my child’s name or birthday, said her parents wouldn’t be comfortable with that. She wouldn’t even give me a photo.. Then she said to get counseling because everyone has moved on and it takes two to make things work and, unfortunately, we just didn’t work because ‘it’ doesn’t always work out for everyone) and she can do that. She adopted my daughter to him and then they got her a passport.. I don’t even have access to request a SSN card or birth certificate for her. I had my sister do it online after I learned of the adoptipn and the birth certificare came earlier yesterday.. (she had her friend notarize the forms. Her friend was very sympathetic and heartbroken, and if anyone says anything I’ll just say I stole her stamp and forged the form) my sisrer claimed she was my x and had a certificate sent to her house. My daughter’s father is now listed as that piece of shit guy. So she wins. He wins. They won. . I’m sorry this so so long. It’s a hard night. I’ve been reading here and I’m just wanting someone to tell me I’ll be OK. Give me advice. I spent every cent on attorneys that my parent’s could give before my mom died. My sister is taking care of dad now so money is tight. There’s just nobody to help me and all is lost. I don’t eat or sleep . Just when I think I’m healing someone hits me again..I don’t know what to do anymore. I can’t keep living on this nightmare. Is there anyone with anything? Any advice because I’m all tapped out.

    • This is a horrible story and it hits me where it hurts — I was adopted by OM and my father died the year afterward.

      Just know that your children still have you in their hearts, and questions in their minds. I’m so sorry this happened to you and to them, and I don’t have any wisdom to impart, just a flood of …well, tears, really. Your story really hurts, and I just want you to know that on some level, I *deeply* get it. Keep living, because no matter how pretty the island or how good the “legal” father, some day those kids will get their records unsealed or otherwise come for you. (((HUGS)))

    • No_hope: I cannot believe there is no hope. DNA tests would show you to be the father of those children, and there has to be some legal recourse in that. Get a consultation with a PI, and perhaps look into states that allow fathers to track down children. EVERYbody leaves some footprint. If you can find out where your bigamist X is living, and perhaps move to a state with laws that are father-friendly, you can get some leeway.

      Perhaps our law enforcement and legal chumps have further advice?

  • Plus her marriage was ten years ago and I found out later that she lied to her ex saying she had arranged for and paid for the annulment but wouldn’t give him any copy until he paid her half of what it cost her. (Her ex left two weeks after the marriage so she had no contact with him at all and was able to lie to everyone about obtaining an annulment) plus, it’s not illegal to remarry when you haven’t given your ex a copy of the annulment. I bought it hook line and sinker and so did everyone else. She never knew his family and they had only two mutual friends who faded away after he left and she moved.. Anyway.. After we married, she decided she wanted a baby. So we started trying.. I thought that since we were married and this would be planned that everything was legit and life was going to be great.. Couldn’t have been more wrong.. Turns out (I found out after she left) whole we planned our wedding, even before, her love had contacted her (company was bringing him back for a while to train in the large city we live) she had smoothed the whole him not being my daughter’s father thing and they were speaking again and basically in a relationship again.. Her plan was to get the ball rolling on me getting her pregnant so when he came to town she could fuck him and then tell him she was pregnant by him. Piecing together her chatlogs, she acted shocked when she told him she was pregnant (after his few week’s visit) Said it must have just happened when he came back to town and she went on to detail their lovemaking and how he felt and how she feels so safe and loved and how she is so happy to think of his baby growing inside of her -when she never said ANYTHING like that to me with her first pregnancy- (the week she fucked him she told me she was going with her sister to Fl to put flowers on her granny’s grave.). So, Basically a do-over for her.. She planned it out.. He was going to be back in town soon for a few weeks and then for a longer period at the end of the year. His job was moving him back for a short while for some training.
    I’m so embarrassed and angry as I type this. So ashamed. I can’t stop crying. My heart feels like it’s being trampled on over and over as I reread this to edit all the mistakes out
    So she gets pregnant the first month -stopped the pill a few months earlier, in anticipation for his visit- so It wouldn’t be hard for her to tweak the dates. She got pregnant the first cycle when she told me this was her first month without the pill. so, things seem good.
    Please, if I seem devoid of emotions it’s because this has been an ordeal and the only way to save my sanity is to shut my feelings down. Im a rollercoaster.
    So she’s pregnant and all is right with us. But not her.. One day, when she’s a few months along, I come home from a weekend of helping my mom and dad, my dad had just broken his back so I was helping mother settle him in at home from the hospital.. I come home and she’s gone and my daughter and unborn baby are gone. all of her and our daughter’s important clothes.. I call her frantically and get no answer.. I try to track her using the phone plan we have, phone is off. Turns out she’d gotten the exact same phone she had when we got matching upgrades, but got her own plan and paid in cash. All this time I thought we were on the same plan, I always told myself this was proof she had changed cus I can, at any time, view her activity if I wanted. But I trusted her with an inch and never did look. Til she left.. she tricked me.. Just brought her number over to her new phone. I had no access to the phone and couldn’t view her texts or call logs.. She paid the phone bill cus she was working again, and it was how we divided bills.. So she’s gone. I will spare you the details and just tell you that it turns out, after searching and consulting with attorneys and police that 1) she was never divorced or anulled (she’s a genius, I.Q. is 140, she makes sure everyone knows this, too. and she planned this to a T) she’s a sociopathic, master manipulator. So, because she wasn’t divorced, we weren’t married.. Ever.. So the baby she was carrying wasn’t legally mine. And even though her ex husband had moved on with his own family, he couldn’t find any empathy for me to help me. By law, HE had the option to file charges against her, I did not. And he refused. Said he didn’t want anything to do with the situation. He was in good standing cus he’d never remarried..he did thank me, however, saying now he himself will go ahead and start a divorce from her by publication. So he wins, he was safe from legal prosecution and she wins.. 2) even though she used my parents’ family sponsored health insurance for the first few months of her second pregnancy when we were “married”, she won’t be prosecuted. She lined that duck up and shot it.. After she left I found out she’d sent in a check to the insurance company totalling the amount paid to her Dr’s. for bloodworks, smears, prenatal care

    • No_hope: I am so sorry. Your story is gutwrenching beyond belief. No wonder you are tapped out emotionally and financially. There was a former chump on CL who contacted a human rights abuse committee over her situation. Let me contact her and see if your case would warrant their attention.

      Huge hugs, No_hope.

    • No Hope, just a thought…You should send this story to CL and perhaps have it as one of the stories she shares. Perhaps people who cannot see your post can comment there.. Of course only if it would not cause you more anguish and you would find some benefit… HUGS

  • I feel that I owe my life to 1. The collegue who tipped me off to his office affair, and 2. My sleuthing work, which clued me in that Cheater and OW were planning, actually engaging in slowly poisoning me. I am so fortunate my mother raised me to be slightly paranoid, and I involved the police at an early stage. If I hadn’t described my physical symptoms to the cops, no one would have alerted me to what might be wrong.

    If your partner is deceiving you, do not assume it’s only for the sex and the giggles. It could be for everything you have.

    My detective methods included a computer keylogger which sent copies of his keystrokes to my phone/email. I found the first incriminating message one day when I was out gardening and he was in the bedroom upstairs sending lurv messages to Schmoopie. I do,admit to spitting in his dinner that night, but most importantly, I went on to lock him out and get medical help. Cheating isn’t just personal rejection, it’s a threat to your safety through possible STD’s. Sleuthing totally justified.

  • I did a lot of things (recording, acquiring collateral information from friends), but mostly it was my stellar memory that allowed me to find contradictions in everything he said and still says. After 2 years, things make sense now as to why his friends are all people he had nothing good to say about 10 years ago (they were all her friends, either alcoholics, or teetotaling Christian people who will keep the illusion going … meaning they knew it was an affair, they condoned it because it was meant to be, and he uses them as proof that he is a good person). It was a smoke screen, plus he’s now Mr. Big Shot in amongst his lesser-skilled fans. I now know why he lives in an area with Twat-Face that he didn’t want to live in with me when we were house-hunting years ago, why his mother is so anxious when she has to deal with him (I thought she was the source of his problems, but looking back, I remember a lot of button pushing and image control by him at family gatherings).

    My most brilliant move was during wreckonciliation, when he swore he implied he was going back to his own place to think about things, and “not talking to her at all” while he contemplated his future (note that everything was implied by him, never actually stated … always providing himself with a loophole). When he was supposed to be at his place, I drove by her place late at night with his extra car key fob he had left behind … and I made her garage light up!!! I stopped short of sounding the car alarm … I would have loved to have seen two floppy naked people run from her house in a desperate attempt to shut the alarm off.

  • I feel no guilt whatsoever my sleeping is directly caused by my husband’s bad actions. Needless to say I live in a no-fault state however I did intend to fully recoup after every time he spent with that Cunt whore, considering half of everything he spent with her was marital assets because I am a STAM. Many years ago I had to go through every training course because I was injured at work I always wanted to be a private investigator so I went to an academy just for that he seems to forget I graduated in the top 3% of my class I try to remind him all the time but I don’t think he ever hears me I have been building up evidence for the last 5 Years now all I have to do is wait for his inheritance trust to kick in before I can file the lawyer said once the money is transferred to him then I can go after him to recoup the marital assets at least a half that’s mine.

    • Wow, Imbroken2, you have a will of steel. I just hope the money will have been worth it for your years of pain; your CL codename worries me.

      • I worry both about your codename (my goodness how hard it must be! Five years?) … and your lawyer.

        Inheritance, in any from, is among THE MOST protected property there is in the U.S. I’m going to assume from your syntax that at the least you are from the U.S. and probably live in the states. If I’m wrong, disregard everything I say here, save one bit that I’ll start with: don’t remind him anymore that you are an investigative stud. (Hell, come share some tips with technophobes like I!) He doesn’t need to be alerted.

        I don’t want to scare you. I DO want you to ask your attorney (who I hope specializes in family law) if she or he also has had extensive training in Trusts and Estates. Then, no matter the answer, go see a separate Trusts and Estates attorney yourself. Please.

        The overwhelming presumption is that inherited property is that of the inheritor alone, even if married, and even when married. In any instrument of inheritance, especially a trust, it is very easy to disinherit a spouse specifically.

        Even if he has not specifically excluded you, in order for you to claim a penny, in every case I ever saw, there had to have been something specific that had happened to overcome what is an almost irrebuttable presumption that the money is ALL his: commingling of funds in, say, a joint account, or something called transmutation.

        (No. I was neither a Family Law attorney nor a Trusts and Estates lawyer. But I WAS a litigator, which means you pretty much see it all, plus the fact that as an associate at a huge firm you get put through rotations in different practice aeas. As a litigator, I frequently had to rely on precisely the two experts I have just named.)

        If the issue that undergirds your waiting is that he will then be solvent (i.e. the trust will give him money he does not have now, because court orders to pay are hella hard to enforce without the very resources you’re seeking), that’s another story. If solvency is the issue, you’re fine …. in that sense. You have an entitled creep in your house. Take care of yourself?

  • I can’t remember all of the marriage policing I did over the years after the first dday when ex admitted he balled guys he met in gay bath houses, but these incidents stick out in my memory:

    I found he was emailing some guy who lived nearby and was self-proclaimed as a bisexual looking for man-to-man sex. When I confronted ex about this, he piously explained that he merely planned on meeting the guy to tell him how WRONG it would be to cheat on his wife in such a manner. He was doing GOOD in the world, certainly not planning on balling the guy’s brains out. yeah.

    For some reason, I was using ex’s laptop instead of my own. Went to search for something and in the search history, found ex had recently Googled “guys fucking.” Asked him about it, and with an expression of pure hatred on his face and a voice dripping with contempt, he replied, “So what.”

  • If I didn’t snoop, today I would still be blaming myself for being, in his words, “hard top love with.” It’s only the memory of those Facebook messages that provides me some self forgiveness.

      • Oh you got that excuse too? Along with – Our sons and I shut him out – well douche canoe you have to be home to be included, I was too fat to do any of the activities he liked to do, ….Now the best part is I have lost over 100 pounds and between Prince Charming and Cinderella – they have gained it all.

      • I got the saaaaame thing…hard to live with. like really? I’ve been dating a loooong time and never heard that one before…

        • “Hard to live with” is something the mentally disordered say. My mother (who is a malignant narcissist) told me my entire life that I have the nastiest personality ever and am so hard to live with, meanwhile people can’t stand her because she’s always raging and angry, doesn’t have any friends. I have tons of friends I adore, a great support system. Yeah and I’m the one who’s hard to live with. Rrrrright.

  • One of my all-time favorite movies is Nora Ephron’s “Heartburn” with Meryl Streep and Jack Nicholson. In the movie there’s a scene where Meryl’s character is getting her hair done and the stylist is talking to another woman about her cheating boyfriend and how she just couldn’t believe how dumb she was not to see what was right in front of her. As she’s talking you see Meryl start to internalize the conversation and then that stomach lurching realization of “oh shit, the bastard is probably cheating on me!” She leaves the salon, hair in disarray, to get to the house and look for the evidence, which of course she finds. The best line in the movie is when she confronts her cheater. “You didn’t even have the decency to hide the evidence, you just threw it in a drawer. Hotels, motels. You couldn’t even pay cash like a normal philanderer. You charged everything.”

    My ex never changed his passwords through all three D-days. I sometimes wonder if he thought I was that trusting and naïve or if he just didn’t care about being caught. Maybe even getting some kind of sick high out of being found out or maybe, just maybe, he was so mentally ill that he wanted me to find out to give him the excuse to end the affair, which he inevitably did at some point each time after I confronted him with the evidence.

    In one of the last scenes of the movie Meryl sums the world of the chump up perfectly. At some point we all realize that something is off in the relationship but we’re so busy living in our dream and spackling everything that we just ignore all the signs until there are so many red flags and bells going off that our brains start screaming at us to “wake up stupid!!” That’s when we resentfully join the marriage police force and become our own private investigators.

  • I was a chump detective extraordinaire. I had already been separated from my human pustule of a husband for five months, completely unaware of the truth (that he had narcissistic personality disorder and had been lying and cheating for years), and was still obsessed with repairing and restoring our marriage. The OW called him at 10:45 p.m., one evening when he was at my house for a dinner party. My daughter saw her name on his phone and googled her, then told me about her. I went into chump detective overdrive.

    First there were her Linkin and Facebook pages, so I quickly figured out who she was (the femme fatale turned out to be a frumpy, 50-something divorced mother of three). He had no idea I knew, thought it was still a big secret. At that time I was about to leave on a vacation to Europe, so I asked him for our Verizon login, saying I needed to set up my phone for foreign travel. Our phone account was through our business, so he had always paid the bill. He stupidly gave me the login.

    I printed reports of both his phone and text records going back to the first of the year. Then I subscribed to two or three of those online people research companies and spent days identifying every single phone call he had made for the past eight months. Turns out he had been talking to her on almost a daily basis since the beginning of the phone records, which was two months BEFORE we separated. I found out that Verizon updates phone records practically in real time, so I could tell almost to the moment when they were on the phone together. He was so stupid that he didn’t realize for four months that I was doing this. When he finally realized it, he changed the phone password, but by that time I had 10 months of phone records.

    The pustule is fairly computer illiterate, so he used his phone for everything–buying concert tickets, making hotel and plane reservations, calling taxis, etc., so I could tell whenever he took the skank anywhere. I could tell they were big drinkers, and they often called taxis at midnight or 1 a.m., presumably because both of them were too drunk to drive (in our marriage, I was always the designated driver). If it hadn’t been so heartbreaking, it would have been hilarious.

    I started driving by her house at night to see how often he was there–turned out it was two or three times per week. This got sort of time consuming, so after a while I bought two GPS trackers and put them on both his vehicles. (I could do this legally because the cars were registered in both our names.) The trackers (iTrack 2.0 from, in case anyone is interested) would text me whenever his vehicle moved, and I could also designate certain geographical areas that the trackers would alert when his car entered the area–her house, his condo, his work. I tracked his every move for six or seven months. I knew exactly where he went and how long he stayed.

    I found out he was going away for a week in December, so I tracked his car to the airport parking lot. I still had a key to his car, and lo and behold, he had left his house keys in the car. I had a whole week to search through his condo before he came home! I took his house keys and made a copy (legal, because I was also an owner of the condo).

    I found a treasure trove of information inside his condo. I found all his computer passwords. I found a valentine the OW had made him for Valentine’s Day 2014 (he had moved out of the house two days before), that consisted of a 60-page printout of all their text messages since they first started flirting with each other (going back to June of the previous year), including titty pictures of herself (that didn’t include her face, as if that would preserve her anonymity??). The text dialogue was HI.AR.I.OUS! But again, for me heartbreaking as well. She called him Prince Charming and he called her Cinderella. They made up their own acronym, YTMO, for “you turn me on.” I could tell when they first slept together. She was so understanding about how unhappy he was in our marriage. She sent her sympathies to him when MY father died. He spent time with her kids (but hardly mentioned ours at all). They made plans over texts to meet up in motels. I made copies of everything, natch.

    When I logged in to his gmail account, the first email I read was to a woman whose name I didn’t recognize, and it read something like, “I sent the payment early this year. I don’t intend to get involved at all, but could you send me some pictures of the little guy?” This was followed in a return email by pictures of a 12- or 13-year old boy in a Halloween costume, fishing, playing hockey. This was the total bombshell. It was the pustule’s out-of-wedlock son I never even suspected for a moment existed. I also found records of 13 years’ worth of secret child support payments, as well as legal documents from 2002 in which he agreed that he was the father and he would pay the child support.

    That was the real stunner, for both me and my kids. I was in shock. When I confronted the pustule about the situation, he (believing the best defense is a good offense) got mad at me for entering his condo. That was followed by a fake wreckonciliation in the hopes of keeping a lid on what I’d found out. I don’t know what possessed me to attempt that–temporary insanity?

    But I came to my senses a few miserable weeks later. I had ferreted out more than enough information to confirm the pustule’s true actions and nature. Shortly afterwards, I had the divorce papers served, found Chump Lady, started no contact and my long and winding road to recovery.

    Forgive the length of this, but it sure feels good to spew all this garbage up. Some day, I’ll write a book about the whole thing. It will be a comedy.

    • This dick had a 12 year old child with someone else that he never bothered to tell you about?!!! I’m sorry but this guy is really messed up in the head. And how did he expect to hide this child of his and for how long? This guy is a mental nutcase.

    • Champchump, I’m so sorry that happened to you. The same thing happened to my aunt. She had been married for over 50 years when she found out her husband was having an affair and basically had another family in the same city. The child she found out about was 9 years old. Her husband was a big leader in the church, too.

      • Thanks Lyn. Yes, I’m no longer at all sure of who I was married to for 30 years. I thought he was a regular guy, but turns out he’s, as Kellia says, a mental nutcase. It’s an absolute mind blower. My lawyer told me about another “gray divorce” he handled where the wife was sure the husband was having an affair because she discovered he was regularly sending money to a much younger woman. Turned out that woman was his daughter by a long-time affair partner!

  • Being a robotic creature of habit, then-husband was out for his evening walk-and-text to (I suspected) his bimbo. He screwed up and left his email open, and I found all the exchanges back and forth from his bimbo proclaiming their twu wuv. I printed enough of them to have proof he was an epic liar.

    I also found five other email accounts with various aliases and profiles of his “other selves.” To this day, I’m sure he continues his man of mystery facade. I hope he gets caught again.

    The worst “detective” work I did however, was after one of his weekend jaunts “alone” to our family cape home to “mow the lawn.” Dumbass brought the trash home. So, dumbass me brought the bag to a local park, put on gloves and went through it. The “evidence” proved that he and Bim had a huge party at our home. I also got his secret credit card numbers.

    Best of all, as I pulled a used tampon and condom out of the garbage, I FINALLY had the “WHATTHEFUCKAMIDOING?” moment. I tossed it all into the city trash bin, drove home, and called an attorney.

    I have never once felt a pang of remorse or regret for divorcing him. But, the detective work almost killed me. I find it apt that my moment of clarity came during the most disgusting thing I did to prove he was disgusting.

  • He was arrogant enough to give me a general power of attorney. I used it – much later than I should have – to pull his Paypal records. They showed months of payments to Schmoopie. Made via an Ebay account he set up to make extra money by selling things of mine.

  • After too many years of gaslighting excuses for all of the reasons why he needed to guard his technology like Fort Knox, followed by the realization that I could check off each item on the Top Ten Is Your Spouse Cheating? list, I went looking.

    We shared an ITunes account that he’d set up a few years before, not realizing it used the same password as his ICloud, where all of his contacts, pics, and emails were stored. He was careful to delete everything pretty much instantly, but the contacts helped me identify the names for the numbers that phone records (we had a family plan) showed he was obsessively calling and texting at all hours of the day and night. They were almost all men.

    At first I was enough of a chump to find this to be evidence that he was not, in fact, cheating, and even joked with my friends about how if he was, then he was gay. Ha ha. All of the cheating behaviors continued, though, and I started using Find My IPhone, and when that showed that he was lying to me about being at work when he was in fact visiting a “friend” for the afternoon, it started to dawn on me that he really was gay.

    I had learned enough by then not to let on to my methods, but I did call him out a couple of times when I was able to independently verify where he was (one of his down-low buddies was married to a friend of a friend, and his administrative assistant never lied for him, though she didn’t know the reasons why I was trying to track him down). Of course he had to admit to where he’d been but lied about why, then pivoted to the usual verbal abuse about what a pathetic insecure bitch I am and how dare I question his integrity!

    After that I continued to compile the evidence in secret, just to get enough to reassure myself that yes, he constantly lied to me about his whereabouts, and yes, he frequented well-known hook-up spots in town, and yes, he engaged in flirty text banter with his down-low best friend and was in love with a gay colleague, and yes, he sucks, pun intended. I started lining up ducks, though it took me a few years before I felt ready, something this site helped me tremendously with.

    One day, not long after I decided to accept that I knew enough, I walked into his man cave and found him sound asleep naked, but with his briefs around his knees, IPad on his chest. He denied looking at porn. Ok, I guess he was just airing things out . . . The IPad was a new purchase and he didn’t yet know how to erase the history. It took weeks of patient waiting for a slip up on his part (he usually took all his technology into the bathroom with him and is the world’s lightest sleeper). Sure enough, there in his history was all the proof I needed to confirm that he’s gay.

    I confronted him thinking that now he had to admit everything and proceed with the divorce like two adults. Nope. He admitted to everything from “same sex attractions” to being bisexual, to being a “latent homosexual with subliminal sexual fantasies about other men” but vehemently denied being gay or acting on any of his “urges” and instead launched into a vicious tirade about what an evil, horrible person I am and how all of the problems in our marriage were my fault.

    I stopped looking for more evidence not long after that and left X believing that I bought all of his lies about being gay so that I didn’t add one more thing for him to be angry about during the divorce. Now that it’s over, though, and he has nothing left to hurt me with, I want to drop an off-handed, veiled, but pointed-enough remark to remind him that yes, I know everything, and have for many years now.

    Not very Meh but there you have it. It still bothers me to think that he believes he pulled one over on me, and I want him to wonder who else I might have told, just as I still wonder about who he’s badmouthed me to.

  • I checked the cell phone records, which were in my name, and found out that the affair went on for much longer than I ever suspected. There was a call to a divorce lawyer he made early on, apparently intending to ambush me with a divorce when I didn’t even know he had a girlfriend. I found later phone records that showed he was cheating with her again some three years later, after he had three level spinal fusion. I hired a PI to search for both of their bank accounts as he stopped paying money into the family while he was still living with me. When she bought a house in FL from them, I got a copy of the deed and mortgage. I know her social security number, her dob and other completely useless crap. Dickhead did open a secret bank account but then had the statements sent to my house. I had complete access to his personal and business emails and business bank accounts because I was always on those and he was not smart enough to take me off. I printed out copies of correspondence with clients, proving business was better than ever even though he claimed poverty. I printed out copies of bank statements proving THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS were going into his business account even though he paid nothing towards the house and his own bills. And for all that, my lawyer said I would have problems proving innocent spouse because I had access to all that info, and also, that to hire a forensic evaluator would probably not be fruitful. But, the most hurtful thing of all, was seeing his bank statements proving he was visiting her in Florida and staying weeks- I could see all the times he parked the car at the airport and left it there (the car was in MY name)- I could count the times he took her out to dinner on my dime- and the vacations they took together- while I struggled to keep a roof over my head. And after everything, it didn’t matter what i found out. It still ended the same way, and the detective work I did- just hurt me more.

  • meant to say she bought a house in FL FOR them. And yes, it was all about the cell phone. At the end, I caught him with a 7-11 pre-paid phone just to talk to her. Now he can talk to her all he wants.

  • My initial policing events were actually often accidental, but turned into stuff I felt the need to dig deeper.

    I had mentioned that I thought we needed better boundaries with Ho-Worker (i.e. she was on my radar), but one day I logged into the cell phone account to check something for my dad and I saw hundreds and hundreds of texts between them. Then I looked at his phone and saw that there texts that happened at like 3:00 AM. I said this has to stop. And it did. And I spackled and said great…And then he changed the PW on his cell phone one day. And I spackled.

    Then one day I was driving down the road to go to Target and saw his car parked outside of her place. I said the next day “I’m not OK with this”. He said OK. 4 days later I drove around the block and his car was still there (i.e. he tried to hide it). I moved into the guest room that night. And I kept finding his car there. Sometimes I wouldn’t find the car, but maybe he parked it up the road and took an Uber or something. I would park across the street from her place and see if I could flush him out by texting him, but I never actually saw him walk out her door. August 2 years ago it was parked a few blocks over but I still found it. I told him to move out but some how he talked me out of it. I spackled when he promised it was nothing and they were just hanging out and it would stop. A year later I left work early (for unrelated reasons) and cut through the neighborhood where she lived. I think I probably knew I would find something, though at the time I didn’t acknowledge that I was going on an investigative journey. I was just cutting through to go to the store. And I saw his car. I had just quit my job and taken a new job to try and keep “us” in Southern CA. I didn’t speak to him for two weeks. I said this isn’t fair. You can’t keep doing this. I got what was essentially the dead-eyed stare. He approximated something like remorse on his face region and I took that as a sign that he would finally make a decision one way or another.

    I kind of floated, shocked for a few months. Then I went out to dinner with some friends and my friend told me that through the grapevine it had become known that he was telling his buddies at the bar that the only reason he hadn’t gotten rid of me was that he didn’t want to give me half. He was not even in town which was probably for the best. I decided to file, I came home, spent the next 24 hours pulling paperwork, locking down financials, digging for evidence etc. It was 6 days before Christmas. I had my first meeting with a lawyer on Jan 4.

    The final challenge came when I mentioned that I had not seen the contents of his phone to a friend. She’s a good friend and cares and presented the hypothetical “What if you got into his phone and saw that the narrative you have created is not right.” I said “it doesn’t change this, this and this”. She agreed and said carry on. Less than 24 hours later I was standing nearby and I saw his password. Less than a week later I jumped on his phone while he was in the shower. He didn’t even have the sense to changer her name to “Dave” or something. It was 8:00 on a Saturday morning and he had already been talking to her on google hangouts. This was maybe the last weekend of Feb. I filed on March 11.

    If this is the stuff I could find out with basically no technology, no PI, minimal investment of time and the fact that I have at least two good friends that have my back… what could I have learned had I actually be trying. I actually contemplated getting a PI because I got a little bit stuck on PROVING that he was fucking her (it was driving me crazy that he was sticking to his line about just friends)… but it’s not like a PI can prove he is fucking her behind closed doors in her apartment. I live in a no fault/community property state so it was pointless. I regret not understanding that if this is what I stumbled across when not even trying, how bad really was it. When they show you who they are, believe them.

    • CAGal, isn’t it amazing that you tell them how much it’s hurting you and to please stop, and they mouth the words “I’m sorry,” or whatever, but they continue doing what they please? Same story for me. Truly amazing. I was also hung up on trying to prove that something more than their being “friends” was going on. I never really found out for sure, but he was definitely in love with her. They traveled together all the time and had plenty of opportunities. Anyway, you shouldn’t have to compete for your husband’s love anyway. That’s so messed up.

      • When I started telling select people I was filing (my family, very close friends) they said oh dear, why now. I would say “I have come to appreciate that he is just going to continue to lie to me. Like he just lies and lies and doesn’t even give it another thought. And the worst part is he has no recognition that there is a person on the receiving end of those lies who is hurt by them.” I had actually asked him point blank “are you not just getting the divorce because you talked to a lawyer and decided it was cheaper to keep her.” And he lied “Oh, no, I love you and I want to be with you, I’m just so messed up.” It’s pretty devastating it is to have someone lie to you big like that and find out that the guys at the bar know more about the status of your marriage than you do.

        As Rhianna says “Don’t tell me you’re sorry cause you’re not, Baby when I know you’re only sorry you got caught” So yeah he would use his mouth hole to say “I’m sorry”. I never even confronted him about the last big lie. I just got the hell out.

    • “I got a little bit stuck on PROVING that he was fucking her”

      It’s so pathetic to cling to that ‘just friends’ thing for so long, you’d think at some point they’d just come clean because it’s so damn obvious and stupid. Sure, you’re playing tidlywinks for hours and having tea and crumpets… F-off with the hanging out and not having sex bullcrap…. Bad enough he humiliates you by doing it, then he has to cap it off with insulting your intelligence to boot. Love is blind, deaf, dumb and stupid, and they take advantage of that fact until they kill off the love… Glad you see clearly now that it doesn’t matter if he admits it or not, you know it, he knows it, and that’s enough.

      • The moment of clarity came for me in that same evening when I heard about the “doesn’t want to give me half”… my good friend E (who is a guy) was about 2 martinis in and when I started to spackle a little bit he just calmly said “As a guy – you are not hanging out with a girl like that an not getting your dick wet. I’m just saying”. It was such a clear statement of fact, no sugar coating, no trying get me to read between the lines.. that I was like of course, of course he is fucking her. Sometimes it’s good to have those people that say what need to be said.

        Another good friend was like “so did he ever admit he’s fucking her”. I told her no, but on the day the divorce is final FINAL (i.e. I’m in legal waiting period now), I would love to send him a text or something and say “Can you please just admit you were fucking her.” I won’t.. best just to move on.

  • My story differs from many here. My STBX informed me of his latest affair on D-Day #1. I did no marriage policing as I assumed that it would not help me (and not help our kids). A few months later, STBX filed for divorce. A couple months after he filed, he confessed to having sex with prostitutes. Throughout our marriage, HE (abusive criminal cheater) spied on and often monitored ME (loyal spouse). He hacked my computer for years, stole things, and committed a wide variety of crimes against me and others. Very glad that the vampire no longer lives with me. Fortunately for me, he spends much of his time overseas. I just hope to get a decent settlement to support the kids and me and to be left in peace to pursue a cheater-, criminal-free life.

  • After reading all these stories today, I just want to know: What the hell is up with cheaters and all the excessive Communication??? Seriously, hundreds of texts per day, hours on the phone, constant email. This is something you might expect out of a teen/preteen, and most of them have at least something else to do when with their time. It is pathological, I think. Nobody in a normal relationship does that, do they?

    Like ex and his whore, I know neither one of them is particularly interesting. I remember in Wreckconciliaton , trying to extend conversation on the phone or text more with ex and I was like Fuck this, I have things to do. It was just so boring. And they couldn’t possibly complain about me or her work or kid that much. I wish I could have heard them talking at least cause I know it had to be incredibly stupid.

    • Constant contact is pretty typical with NPD/BPD and/or PUA love-bombing. With the first two types, I’m not sure it’s calculated or deliberate; with the third type it’s a structured tactic.

      Whether the love bombing is consciously applied or not, the brain activity is kicking off all kinds of awesome fireworks, especially if there’s hot sexual content being thrown around in real-time exchange. That’s the hook, for both parties. The chemistry happening in each person’s brain is going deliciously, addictively NUTS. And of course that’s true love. *cough*

      But, having been love bombed, I have to admit, it feels really lovely. Thrilling and comforting at the same time, when a person you like wants to communicate with you so much. Feels like love.

      Which somehow, it isn’t.

      • This is PreyingMantis, to a T!!! Classic NPD. Wish I’d known that texts all day long, 5 hour phone convos, and constant emailing weren’t a sign of devotion… they were a sign of being love-bombed to achieve narcissistic supply. And even then… it still wasn’t enough. It would never have been enough. NOTHING I could ever have done would have filled up that narcissist’s endless black hole… LuckySeven, thanks so much for putting it in black-and-white for me. I need all the clue-by-fours I can get 😀

    • Look up “fractional seduction” techniques. :/

      In the PUA arena, it is totally deliberate and serves to establish control which can later be used to throw a target completely off kilter — which is also a structured tactic.


      • Right, Lucky Seven, I think there may be a few instances where cheaters deliberately Love Bomb another person, like a sociopath or something, but I don’t think it’s that common. True narcs, psychopaths, sociopaths aren’t that common, as far as i can tell.

        The cheaters I mean are the ordinary ones, just average boring folks out for strange ass. If they were weren’t love bombers before they probably didn’t just turn into one overnight. So what’s going on? I think that the whole excessive communication is a product of the adulterous relationship, there is something about cheating that messes up their minds. They think the “feelings” are fueling the Affair when actually the Affair is fueling the “feelings.”

    • I had the same thing… WTF are they talking about all the time. Like – what the hell. Though early on in the cluster fuck when my Ex did this whole “oh we will be friends, cause she’s my friend and you will like her too” thing, the three of us would hang out. It was excruciating because listening to the two of them talk was like listening to a couple of thirteen year old girls talk. Like they would gossip about people at work, and stuff on their phones, and Instgram and facebook etc etc. It was honestly a real turn off because my husband… the MAN I married who was 40-ish years old and counting was acting like fucking teenage girl. His whore is like 15 years younger and an idiot. I just remember being kind shocked/stunned watching these exchanges going on… I had no frame of reference or problem solving skill for “what to do when your husband of 10 years emotionally regresses into a 14 year old girl”

      But it makes sense in that very narcissistic behavior context. Teenagers are little immature narcissist assholes. they crave constant approval and feedback from the peer group. I remember I would talk with my best girlfriend on the phone for HOURS. We talked about clothes, and boys, and school, and stuff we liked. It was all about getting that unrelenting attention. So it kind of makes sense when you frame it like that.

      • Lol, CAGal, I didn’t want to be married to a 14 year old girl equivalent either. I think ex wanted to be a 16 year old boy, actually.

        It’s definitely a dysfunction, not a Jubilant Expression of Love, or whatever it is these wing nuts want you to believe.

    • Anita, told my counselor how shocked I was to see the hours of phone conversations between my husband and his coworker because he never talked to me like that, especially on the phone. My counselor’s comment was, “He didn’t have to talk to you because he wasn’t trying to win you over.” That made sense to me.

    • I too had a difficult time trying to understand the need for constant communication that the ex and these OW seem to thrive on. I even Googled it to try to understand what the big deal was. Between Google, sites like these and my therapist I’ve come to understand that it’s a combination of what some here have said. Whether it’s NPD, love bombing or whatever other personality disorder it might be, the constant texting is a symptom of the feelings that drive an affair and not representative of how a real relationship would be formed. My therapist called it an ego thing. You send a text to someone and in your brain you’re analyzing how long it takes the other person to respond, how often the other person texts you first, etc. Instead of an affair of the heart it becomes an affair of the ego.

      I read something that said in long-distance relationships, constant texting is an acceptable way to keep the connection between two people but I think even that is a false statement because like others here have said, there is such a thing as too much texting. I have much more to do with my time than to keep checking my phone every couple of minutes to see if my texts are being responded to. In my ex’s case, the second OW was not only his sexting buddy but since she was engaged at the time, there was also a certain amount of “winning over” the OW against her fiancée. With the third OW, it more about ego and having someone pay attention to him since she wasn’t even living in the same state he was. Texting was really all that they had to try to build a relationship and since I was sort of still in the picture, in the mind of the OW, she needed to keep herself in his thoughts at all times. In either case, the constant texting back and forth all times of the day and night was a way for them both to sort of feed each other’s egos. It’s all sorts of fucked up.

      The ex said about OW 2 that building a relationship with her was so much easier than it had been with me because with me there was friendship that was built first and then love happened over time but with the OW, it was immediate, there was no “struggle” to build a relationship. That’s how fucked up their brains are. A real relationship is supposed to develop over time, after you build trust, respect, etc. as you experience real time history with the other person. Even though his relationship with her ended fairly quickly, he still thinks that they had a real relationship. With the third OW, there wasn’t any real connections with her other than the texting. Not even phone calls. I asked him how in the world he could build a relationship with someone via text only. It’s crazy and it’s not normal. That relationship didn’t last long either. Big surprise.

      I know he still doesn’t get it but I did try to explain to him once that for me, a person that seemed that interested in me, to the point of having to text me all day long or expect a response in a certain time frame would be off-putting to me and I would not want to build a relationship with someone like that. In their fucked up brains, this is normal but it’s also an exhausting way to sustain a relationship. Since both of these OW didn’t last long the extreme texting phase never reached the level where it became tiresome for either or both, but I suspect eventually it would have. His extreme texting to these OW and even other female friends became so repulsive to me that eventually I insisted we either talk on the phone or in person about things that I considered too important for texting. Basically, I requested that he respect me enough to talk to me in person about most things, something those OW never insisted upon probably because of their own self-esteem issues.

      • A comment on LDR communications — texting is for when anyone is in an elevator, waiting in queue at a noisy tire shop, or at a restaurant; sometimes for times of day when one person knows the other is unable to take calls or chat. IME, texting isn’t where the communication happens or where the relationship really unfolds.

        Gchat and other desktop IM avenues (other email sites, also dating sites and FB) give any desk employee the ability to develop really rich relationships without ever leaving their post or uttering a single audible word. Mind that LDR people who relate through these channels also likely talk a lot and just as deeply and constantly on the phone. If cheater texting records don’t correspond to hours of phone calls with same target, I’d say that AP was mostly made up in cheater’s imagination and it fizzled out when the fantasy couldn’t be sustained. In that case it’s more like just a porn bot, and truly stupid excursion.

        But where there’s a lot of corresponding voice contact, that’s real relationship. That’s where it starts to be really threatening, to me.

        If that makes sense. Texting is kind of juvenile and ridiculous to me, takes people out of the real world. But if you’re sitting at a computer screen for 8 hours a day anyway, there’s a way to not be alone while you do it. Bonus: you always sound busy and productive. :/

        Crappy that a beloved LDR experience has informed my awareness of how — and how easy it is for anyone — to cheat.

  • I have heard cheaters use all the talking, texting, etc all hours as proof of twu wuv, but I don’t believe that. Normal people date, fall in love, get married , etc and they don’t spend hours on the damn phone. They are seriously fucked up. Someone needs to do a psych evaluation on these people.

    I recall a lady on a RIC site wishing her husband would text her 500 times a day like he and adultery partner did. At the time, I thought How awful, if somebody texted me that much I would go insane. And file a restraining order on them, lol. Cra cra.

    • Anita, what a great observation. I agree with you this isn’t normal, and that you would expect teenagers to act this way, but not adults. No one I know would spend such intense time texting like this or this much time on the phone, unless you have addictive or OCD behavior. I mean, people have jobs, a life and other things to do. And when I date or when my friends date, they certainly didn’t call, text, spend hours on social media like this, they were too busy planning a life and trying to accomplish things. This is definitely not normal behavior.

      • Kellia, that’s what gets me, no one calls this weirdness out for what it is. Adultery, I mean. It gets romanticized as love, etc when it’s just not. If the Cheaters felt any love, they would get the hell out of other relationships, and be together, no matter what. If Prince Charles can do it, why can’t the average cheater do it? Because they don’t want y.

        I believe that the real truth is that most cheaters would not be in a “relationship” with each other if they had to do it in a normal setting. That’s why 99% of affairs that try to endure after the cheaters get married fail. There is really just nothing there.

  • More and more I think true reconciliation is not
    – earning back trust or being trusting
    – rekindling love and romance
    – being open and authentic
    – being remorseful and forgiving and nurturing

    True reconciliation is being fully aware that
    – you are married to a cheater who may or may not be dormant but probably will cheat or at least flirt again
    – you really can’t trust your partner
    – if you’re partner says they love you, you have no idea if they are telling the truth
    – you’re partner is just too afraid to go out on their own without a secure landing pad
    – you believe a toxic marriage is better for the kids than having to go back and forth between 2 houses

    Reconciliation is redefining marriage to match reality.

    Now, maybe there is the rare unicorn that messed up one time on a sleazy one night stand and forever feels horrible about it and never does it again, but if you read all the infidelity stories out there, you’ll quickly see that isn’t very common, and the great majority of cheaters simply don’t have empathy for their spouses and are extremely selfish.

    • Exactly! And we don’t want that! No one should want that. And guess what, if you have a unicorn, 1,2,5,10 years from now the cheater may really fall in love with someone else, and as he does not love you, he WILL leave. Maybe this time the OW wasnt good enough to leave the marriage but who knows…

  • True reconciliation is being fully aware that
    – you are married to a cheater who may or may not be dormant but probably will cheat or at least flirt again
    – you really can’t trust your partner
    – if you’re partner says they love you, you have no idea if they are telling the truth
    – you’re partner is just too afraid to go out on their own without a secure landing pad
    – you believe a toxic marriage is better for the kids than having to go back and forth between 2 houses

    This should go on a poster! Great words.

  • Well, I was one of the biggest chumps in the universe. My husband told me he was attracted to a co-worker.. and he seemed to be falling in love with her, and as we had had problems in our marriage, and had thought about divorcing, I actually called HER to ASK her if she really loved him. I was contemplating divorcing him to make HIM happy, give him up, but wanted to know that her intentions were right. Well, as I asked her to be good to him, she said: “You really have no idea what’s going on have you. Why don’t you ask him?”. Turned out they were already sleeping together.. well at that moment the fight was on!!! Instead of letting him go with love, I picked me danced like a real chump – FOR TWO YEARS!!!! Even though we had though about divorce before the affair. And I didn’t have to do any police work. My cheater never bothered to chance passwords, or even have a password on his phone. He was very forgetful and would leave his phone at my house. And he was a crap liar..

  • There is nothing more demoralizing than having to follow your significant other/husband/wife around to see if they are faithful to you. This is a horrifying, hell of an existence.

  • When I read these stories the more angry I get. Like you said sometimes we do not need a PI just $ & strenght! LIke a chump here said WE are not crazy!!! ONe time I was reading those silly internet brain pickers about ” 40 yr old crisis” before the hot mess that I am now. The article mention: ✅ gym ✅ new underwear ✅ new clothes etc.. after I learned from CL that there is no 40 yr old crisis!!! Lack of CHARACTER❗️❗️.. So should we leave them as soon as they start using designers underwear???? My travelers cheater pant used to wear cheapy underwear and all of the sudden started to use Ck etc because they were real cotton ?!!?!! Asshole!

    • lol at CK — I’m not a mall shopper but in a recent dash through a department store, the CK underwear ads made me laugh out loud. I imagined everyone would feel differently about those glistening hardbodied men if the advertising copy instead read,


      So that’s what I think of cheaters in fancy underpants. Every time.

  • IMHO, if you feel the need to marriage police, your marriage is not salvageable. If you’re poking through your spouse’s drawers, trying to get a glimpse of their phone or their email, playing a private investigator on their social media….. what the fuck, turn that energy towards a divorce and starting a new life. A marriage that is teetering on a foundation built of earned mistrust is no way to live.

    I played the marriage police a lot in my first marriage. And I found plenty of evidence that he was always cheating, that he was never honest the entire twenty years we were married. God, I remember the sick, sinking feeling in my stomach as I rifled through his dresser and found gay porn, or found the sickening Christmas card the OW gave him or discovered the open box of condoms hidden in the closet. I remember actually sinking to the floor and shaking like a leaf when I got into his email and discovered a letter from a guy he was blackmailing. What a nightmare.

    I’ve been with Nice Guy for nearly three years, we’ve been living together nearly a year and we are getting married in four months. I’ve never once felt the need to “police” him, never even considered peeking through his drawers or trying to get a glimpse of his phone or his email. And it’s not like he tries to hide his phone or computer from me anyway. What a difference from my first nightmare marriage. Every one of you still locked in a marriage where you have to police your spouse deserves better.

    • Hi Glad,

      Speaking for myself, I did not do my detective work with the idea that I was salvaging my marriage. I did my detective work not knowing what I would find. And I was so irresistibly, insatiably CURIOUS.

      It’s true that if I found evidence that my suspicions were unwarranted, I would probably think the marriage was salvageable. But I was also trying to protect myself both emotionally and financially by looking for evidence of moral and financial malfeasance so as to be fully armed with essential knowledge in the case of a divorce.

      And boy, did I find it.

      The detective work was crazy making, the stuff I found was heartbreaking, but I would never in the world have chosen not to know what I found out. I spent the first 29 years of my marriage totally trusting the guy and never snooping, and the last year as Ms. Sherlock Holmes. If I had done Ms. Holmes earlier, who knows, I might have decided to kick the pustule to the curb when I was 40 instead of being confused and abandoned at 58.

      I just hope I’m not too old now to meet my own actual Nice Guy. Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials!

  • Sometimes fate intervenes. Just after D-Day, I happened to bump into an old mutual friend of ours I hadn’t seen in years. Well, not really a mutual friend… My husband used to make fun of him behind his back for being a geek. Being something of a computer nerd myself, I always liked the guy.

    Anyway, it turned out he was now a penetration tester… A guy whose job it is to try and hack into large companies like Google and Amazon to see if their security measures are any good.

    We got talking about my situation, and before you knew it, he had hooked me up with some backup software that would backup the whole contents of a computer and strip out the password protection.

    I was running a business with the ex at the time. We were both directors of the company, and our computers, which were used for both business and personal had been purchased by the company. I was told by my lawyer that it would be perfectly legal and reasonable for me to backup his computer and, given the circumstances, if I felt I needed to check the contents of the backup, that was reasonable.

    Well, I read every horrible e-mail he had written about his deception and affairs since 2003 on that computer. Found all his aliases from dating websites. Found chat conversation histories telling his prostitutes how his wife just didn’t understand him. Found countless accounts of his antics bragging to his buddies about his shenanigans in very colorful detail. Found all the airline and hotel receipts for bookings with his various whores… Of which there had probably been 40 or so over the past 10 years. And found accounts of all the money he had slowly taken out of our accounts in cash and moved to an account in Thailand to the tune of over $100k.

    I only wish I’d lived in a no fault state, but alas. At least I found out what he really was.

    I think the best part was the e-mails he found while spying on his 19 year old Australian girlfriend where she was talking to her bodybuilder boyfriend and telling him she couldn’t see him anymore because she finally found a sucker to buy her a new car. It went nicely with the e-mail he wrote to his buddy about how he’d finally found the one who really cared about him. It also gave me a good laugh when he later said to me, “Oh, I’m not seeing her anymore, she’s just too immature.” *chuckle* I’m sure he felt like a complete fool, but being a narcissist, I’m sure he found a way to also delude himself into thinking that was her shortcoming, not his.

    I did consider turning the contents of his computer over to the Australian Federal Police, since there was evidence that he may have been having sex with minors in Thailand, which is punishable by 10 to 20 years in prison under Australian Federal law about travel and sex. But then I hit meh, and decided to just let karma take its course.

    Now I have a happy new life back in the US, with a great, trustworthy fiancé and a lovely house, while he is old, broken down, and probably still paying 12 year olds for blow jobs. He’ll die old, alone, and taken advantage of by some 10 year old. I’ll live happy.

    But I wouldn’t have had the strength to leave without the brutal and comprehensive truth on that computer.

    • Good for you for getting out of that horrible man’s lair. While you’re at meh, please reconsider reporting his crimes on children. He’s a predator, and one less adult abusing trafficked children is worth the call to the authorities.


  • And it’s very easy… If your significant other password protects his technology from you, he’s hiding something, plain and simple. My fiancé would never dream of locking me out of his accounts. Now if they have underground stuff you don’t know about, that’s a different story.

  • I caught my ex-wife both times with a micro voice recorder that I left in our home and in her vehicle! We reconciled for 4 months between D-Day #1 and D-Day #2. Thing is that I never told her about the way I obtained my “fly on the wall knowledge” as she referred to it after the first D-Day. I just wanted to keep that little gem to myself…..just in case. Well, when she was making me think crazy bc I was jealous and “couldn’t get over the past”, I pulled out my little friend again. When I confronted her with the cheating….she screamed and yelled and called me insane! When I told her that she could stop lying bc I had PROOF….lol….the dumb bitch called my bluff. I didn’t want to reveal my source but damn it….she lied straight to my face and told me I was crazy. SWORE on our two babies that she was not cheating! Well, imagine the look on her face when I whipped out my recorder and hit play… hear the sexual activity that took place on MY couch in MY home (where I was the bread winner) in front of MY wedding pictures while MY children were in their beds just down the hallway while I was at work. Yup….that happened. In my state it is VERY difficult to get a divorce based upon adultery……I had already filed and had it amended to say adultery and that it what it was granted on! So of course, I am a lunatic bc “normal people don’t go to those lengths” but I do not regret it!! I was not crazy…..I was being convinced I was until I got the truth!

    • Hurts like hell Im sure but looking back you’d rather know and get out than not know and get played for a fool. So sorry she went to such extremes to convince you of her lies. Some people are just wired to be pathetic.

  • We snoop because we need the truth. We become obsessed because we know in our guts the bullshit we’re being fed is a bunch of lies. It’s takes us going crazy just to get to the bottom of it. Then we’re called a psycho. This is not who we are or want to be. This is what we become when our heart is broken and overnight our Life gets turned upside down. And when he continues to lie, we want to know more. Even if it hurts to the bone. But like so many have said. Though we believe in our hearts this isn’t a good relationship anymore, our brains need proof. Proof so we don’t blindly listen to our weakened hearts. It’s taken me about 6 months to just accept the fact that this isn’t good for me. It’s still hard as hell to face. But I’m glad I now know what I’m facing.

    Stay strong everyone out there. There’s assholes plenty but also good decent men and women who will treat us right.

  • After 7 years of Pick me Dance and being gaslighted and lied to, I hired a PI who took pictures of the two of them holding hands and kissing…I filed the next day. I am still in the process of the divorce, the pictures are a year old and I looked at them only once, but I can still feel my heart sinking just thinking about it…trust that they suck

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