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Dear Chump Lady, Sex with the STBX just to mess with him?

exsexDear Chump Lady,

What do you think of sex with the STBX? I’ve lost weight and am looking pretty good. I want him to see and feel (with a condom) what he is missing. To fuck with him the way he did with me all these years. Thoughts?


Dear Nomorechit,

I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. It’s very un-meh, and will really set back your healing. Besides, rewarding a cheater with sex is essentially performing the “Pick Me” dance naked. You tell yourself that, oh no, it’s different, because in your fantasy, you’re going to dump him. Hah! He’ll be dancing to YOUR tune now!

Really, why do you think he’d dance? Because he’s your “soon” to be ex? Oh no, he’s really going to lose you now! So maybe he’ll value you more? Because you’re thinner? He’s already shown you how much he values you by cheating on you — your BMI doesn’t change that. You think you’re going to “fuck” with him, but having sex with him just reinforces his centrality. To him AND to you.

Having sex with your STBX or ex is just the bargaining stage of grief, IMO. You tell yourself nonsense like, oh, I’ll fuck with HIM and see how he likes it. (He’ll like it very much. Cake is delicious.) Or, you think, well, I can’t have a marital relationship with this person, but maybe I can use them as a “friend with benefits.” (Bargaining.) You know, just downgrade the relationship. But lurking in there is the thought that it will be So Amazing, your belly will be so flat and your arms so un-jiggly that He Will See What He Is Missing and chase you for once.

Pray to God that doesn’t happen. When you’re trying to get one of these wingnuts out of your life, the LAST thing you want is for them to pursue you with a new ardor. (Ask me how I know.) It’s a dance we do with the disordered — the whole cycle of abuse. You’re missing your honeymoon stage of the cycle,  when it’s intense and the laser beam of sparkles is focused right on YOU, and the make up sex is mind blowing. Of course what follows is the devaluing, and then tension builds, and he’ll act abusively again, and try and make it up to you with more honeymooning.

You’re telling yourself, this time it will be different. You’ll get all the goodies without having to put up with the rest of the crappy cycle. Go ahead, devalue me! Cheat! I won’t care this time!

Of course you’ll care. Your head will be full of happy, love neurotransmitters from the sex. You’ll bond. It will still hurt like a motherfucker when he inevitably cheats on you or treats you like shit again. Don’t kid yourself. You aren’t a disordered person, you’re a chump. You can’t be like them and you shouldn’t want to be like them — using and abusing people.

Consider too if your wingnut is a Borderline or Narcissist Personality that the relationship has the quality of addiction. Here’s another good article from the man’s perspective by Roger Melton, which specifically discusses how BPDs use sex as a weapon to keep you hooked.

Put down the crack pipe. And save your thinner, healthier self for a partner who deserves you.

This column ran previously.

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  • If you really want to fuck with him the way he fucked with you, you’ll do exactly what he did — have sex with others, on your terms, without regard for his feelings at all.

    You want revenge? The best revenge will be a well lived life without him in it.

    • Indeed, living well is the best revenge. It’s more difficult than a simple Hop on Pop, sure, but you’re not a cheater: you’re willing to wade through unpleasantness for healthier long-term goal achievement. Take the high road, sweety, and never look back down the hill.

    • This is the best thread ever! Thank you to Chump Lady and to all of the commenters. Love this post so much! Thank you! 🙂

  • If you want to fuck with your cheater, be smarter, healthier, and live a good life without them. Don’t reward them by engaging in dangerous self-destructive behavior such as drugs, alcohol, or unprotected sex.

    The only way I would fuck Fucktard is if he put the condom over this head. When he could no longer breath then, yep, he’d be truly fucked.

    • That’s priceless.. and I love that you can use the term “fucktard” so freely here! Another website censored me for calling ex a “scumbag”

      • Lol, and you aren’t supposed to mention sex, either. It gets them all stirred up. An infidelity site, and you can’t mention your spouse is fucking someone else. That kind of talk will get you censored too. You are crude, or nasty, or something.

      • Well shit, they’d probably get out the pitchforks and torches reading what I write.

    • I just pictured Annie calmly walking away, smiling and cool as a cucumber, while her Ex struggles to breath, suffocating with a condom over his head!

      It is too good!

  • I hadn’t been having sex with the XH for some time due to his prostitute/porn shit. But D-Day and the Pick me Dance made me do the unthinkable. Yes I wanted to relight the very extinct marital fire but I really wanted to make a point to OW.

    Well the sex was horrible and the OW, on finding out, (reportedly!) told XH- ‘oh that’s OK you can sleep with your wife!’ Yeah, thanks.

    It was a mad thing to do but then I had completely forgotten the good saying ‘Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results’.

    The thought of that, along with pretty much everything else is eeww.

    • Once you take out the garbage, don’t bring it back in! Ever. Please.

      • Yeah, especially since the garbage coming back in probably has developed maggots and such, too. It’s a lot more harmful coming back in the house after being thrown out. Don’t do it.

  • I get where you are coming from. I truly do. I felt the same way. And I did sleep with my STBX. And it was “magical.” We “reconnected.” He “recommitted” to our marriage. He stopped being a selfish, lying, cheating narcissist. And we got our “happily ever after.” NOT. Actually, it unfolded EXACTLY the way CL describes. And it set me back two years.

    If you want men to look at you, get dolled up and go to the grocery store. Or better yet, Home Depot. I understand the need to feel attractive to someone, anyone.

    If you want sexual gratification, go on line and buy yourself a vibrator, or three, or anything else that floats your boat.

    A lot of us have done what you are thinking about doing. I guess if it ended well for any of us, we wouldn’t be part of the Chump Nation.

        • Back at you babe! They are amazing……
          If you have a Lelo, you don’t miss a man!


        • Is it better than a Hitachi Magic Wand? I thought nothing was better than that, in the BOB category. …

          • I will immediately commence investigative research and report back to the group!

      • Thank you!! Just coming (pun intended) out of hibernation from many years of physical neglect. Looking for a bit of self-love as I make my way back into the world of dating.

      • Seconding the Lelo brand. I have a pink one. I call him Mr. Pink… 🙂 Some women really like the Hitachi. I’ve never tried it but the other brands of vibrators I’ve used seem to work well. They don’t always last very long, before they break and I have to buy a new one. The Lelo one has lasted far longer than some of the other brands I’ve had. Also, the showerhead or even the focused stream of water from the bathtub faucet can feel amazing 😉 Hope this helps!

    • I absolutely agree that it’s very devaluing to be cheated on. I lost a boatload of weight, too, but I also realized that my weight had nothing to do with his cheating. After all, Schmoopie was 3 inches shorter than I was and weighed 10 lbs more!:-D

      But it was great, once I’d lost about 20 lbs and started wearing more professional clothes at work. I went to a couple of work functions, and had the rare and much-needed pleasure of seeing men give me the look-over and tell me that I looked great!

      After losing about 50lbs (and yes, this weight was good to lose), one of CheaterX’s lodge brothers remarked that I looked terrific!

      CheaterX, though, told me I was too skinny.

      I laughed, reminded him that I was now the weight I was when we got married, and told him I knew why he had to say what he did, which confused him. He didn’t know I knew about Schmoopie, and I also knew that CheaterX had gained a lot of weight (he used to take her out to dinner, and then come home and pick at the dinner I’d cooked for him). I knew that he had to put down my appearance so that he could justify to himself his affair.

      If I’d not lost weight, he’d be fucking Schmoopie because I’d “let myself go.”

      Because I lost weight, he had to find another way to devalue me in order to justify his cheating.

      Playing Pick Me with the disordered just doesn’t work, so go your own way.

      • When I lost weight, exhole told me I was too thin. He actually said “will you please gain weight, for me?”
        Not a great motivator, douchebag…

    • Too funny! But seriously about the Home Depot thing. It’s like a meat market for women in there. No kidding. I ran in alone once to pick something up and almost never got out. I have never been offered “help” by such a wide ranges of ages and types of men in one place before or since. Haha.

      • Right! They come out of the woodwork! And the plumbing aisle. And lighting. It is crazy!

  • And let’s not forget the risk of the Pick-Me-Dance pregnancy… (Ask ME how I know!)

    Wouldn’t trade my daughter for the world, but FML for 14 more years of co-parenting with a fucktard!

  • I would bet all that would happen is that your STBX will say to himself, “See? I’m just irresistible!”. He doesn’t need any help with his bloated ego. Because? EVERYTHING is about him.

    • Exactly, Uneffing. I made the mistake of 1) agreeing to a “family” vacation while separated, and 2) drinking too much, and 3) having sex with my (at the time) STBX.

      Have heard about it for the past two years as we co-parent and he constantly sniffs around for cake. “Things couldn’t have been that bad; you had sex with me in FL.”

      NOT WORTH IT! Not even if the sex is amazing (it wasn’t) and he was hung like a horse (he isn’t). Just made me feel used and covered in crud again — and that’s something you can’t shower away.

  • If you were married and are divorcing, in my state we had to swear under oath that we had not had “marital relations” or even spent a night under the same roof even once during the one year waiting period.

    • There is even a legal name for that. It’s considered forgiving the adultery, legally. Wish I could remember that word, lol.

      • Condonation is the word. I know, I filed for fault, adultery, abandonment and domestic abuse. He was trying to get alimony, in my state adultery lets you file immediately, no waiting and can stop the spouse from getting alimony.

        • Yes, that’s the word, condonation. Never heard it before, until my lawyer told me about it.

    • There is even a legal name for that. It’s considered forgiving the adultery, legally. Wish I could remember that word, lol.

  • You’re assuming he’s a neurotypical human being… but he isn’t; he’s a cake-eater. He loves being central. What better way to confirm, to him, that he’s STILL central to you than giving him your body when it’s all new and hot and amazing? You look stunning and you’re STILL willing to fuck him after all he’s done? “Hmmnnnn – must not have been so bad.”

    You already took the fork and walked away… stay that way.

  • CL is right. Don’t do it. This is very dangerous for you, in a lot of ways, Nomorechit. Not to mention disgusting. But anyway, I believe that Emotions follow Sex, not the other way around. So you are opening yourself to have loving feelings toward this guy, thru sex.

    I also think many males view sex differently than many women. It is a transaction, mostly, for them. Especially cheaters. That’s why you have the famous phenomenon of guys (usually) breaking up with women after they finally have sex with them. The transaction is done, there is nothing left to pursue relationship wise. I’m not even sure this is a conscious decision in most cases. The woman will be “in love” after sex, the man will not.

    • I agree Anita. At least I know that’s true in my STBX’s case. He told me it was the “thrill of the chase” that excited him. He views women as prey to be conquered, then once caught, the prey is only kept around for kibble supply while searching for more prey.

      The old saying, “find em, fuck em and forget em” is his motto apparently and should be engraved on his tombstone.

      Take CL’s advise Normorechit. He’ll get pleasure out of having sex with you, but not in the way that you’re imagining.

      • HeLovesMeHeLovesMeNot, I prefer “Hit it and quit it” over “Find ’em, Fuck ’em and Forget ’em. My ex just had to keep returning to Skank Hole over and over again! Her vagina apparently was irresistible!

  • Been here. When my ex told me he was leaving for his younger affair partner I slept with him off and on for months. I wanted to prove to my heart that he would cheat on her too and I thought I could use it to blow them up.
    One day she got me on tbe phone and was nasty to me and I dropped the bomb that I had been sleeping with her boyfriend. My ex said he did it, but I initiated it and he only did it to get me to settle the divorce so they could be together.
    Yep….he told her he cheated on her for her…..and she bought it. Smh…
    They are still together but I’m free of them both.
    No good can come of sleeping with an ex……don’t do it!!

    • It’s incredible, but these whores will believe anything the cheaters tell them. Wonder how that will be working for them later on, assuming they are still together.

      • I don’t blame anyone for believing what exasshole tells them, I believed him for years.

        • Right, we did believe them. But anyone who is with a known cheater knows they are a liar, they just think they won’t lie to them.

      • My head hurts reading that. But, yeah, funny how they all seem to think our cheating hubbs won’t cheat or lie to *them*.

    • The OW knew we were still having sex but didn’t care!!! She decided to just wait it out. Eww.

      Well, I didn’t know that THEY were still having sex so she was smart to wait because I kicked his lying ass out once I found out and now she’s got what she wanted – him. This time when he told her we were done for good and he was free, he was finally telling the truth.

  • When I was reading the Wreckconciliaton boards, there was a lady on there who had divorced her husband. Then he came back, crying, doing all the stuff he was supposed to do, making a big show of how sorry he was. Love bombing, on a massive scale. They were going to be remarried, in some sort of fabulous ceremony. It was just all over the top. She “trusted” him, I guess, although I think he’d been screwing at least one whore for years. And yes, of course, the sex was fabulous, for the lady who was reconciling.

    I have to admit I was very jealous of this lady’s success. I needn’t have been. One day they are out in the car. Cheater ex went into a store, and forgot his phone, unlocked. In comes a text from the same ow, talking about sex or something similar. They had never quit seeing each other, and fucking. The poor chump was even more devastated than before. She was just broken. Not sure why this was on my mind but it seems relevant, due to the sex. It’s an “in” to your emotions, and dangerous for that reason.

    • I wish that lady could have been helped, and come to this site before she suffered such pain on top of pain. The cell phone always gives these monsters away.

      Truth: If you are with someone, and they in *anyway* start acting weird about you seeing their cell phone or computer….something is rotten in Denmark.

      • Amen, it was just incredibly sad to see how hurt she was. She kind of disappeared after that.

    • Exactly why the cost/benefit analysis for staying with a cheater = RUN!!

      The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. My neighbor’s best friend has married her cheating H 3 times. THREE times. Some people take a long time to learn.

      • Once a cheater, always a cheater.

        I believe this axiom to be true because once a person has given themselves permission to cross that line, it becomes too easy to do again.

        Also, I know several women whose husbands have recently cheated on them and every single one said it wasn’t the first time. Repeat offenders!

  • No, now much power can I put behind those two letters?
    Don’t do it.
    If for no other reason than it violates No Contact,the path to the truth and the light.
    If you haven’t done it yet,go No Contact, it will free your mind faster than struggling through this while trying to have conversation or a relationship with a fuckwit. Need tips on how to go No Contact, just ask. I am here for you.

    Also, why would you share the new wonderful you with the fuckwit who doesn’t appreciate you? Find someone new. That really messes them up! Ask me how I know. It’s also great for you as it proves all the crap they told you about how no one else would want you is total crap!

  • Stolen from a TV show:

    Don’t throw yourself around like you don’t matter. Because, you matter.

  • Asswipe after he left for whore juice still came around wanting sex from me and was cheating on her with a least two other women and is on dozens of bondage sex hookup websites. Pre and post divorce still looking for sex from me. After i move wants to be close friends and hook up for sex a few times a year. Ugh!!!! No, no and NO! While he is bedazzling in the beginning the mask drops quickly. Whore juice i could care less about. I wish i could tattoo…rides bareback with multiples…. on his bald head as a warning. Hes a bad liar and cheater as he always gets caught. I think its deliberate as he seems to kinda love the drama. asshole. Good riddance.

  • This article ran previously so I don’t know if nomorechit is still reading but if there are any new chumps reading this: don’t do it. In my first year of NC, if I got an email from the exhole (and I did twice), it set me back. I can’t even imagine what having sex would’ve done. Blechhhhh, with a capital blechhhh!!!!!

    Not to mention the fact that cheaters are selfish by nature and that almost always extends to the bedroom. I can’t imagine that their 30 seconds of wonderfulness would be satisfying at all; or maybe that’s just my experience. 😉

    • Yes, this. My ex was very selfish in the bedroom. I wonder if this is a theme with them? Selfish in all aspects of their life? Would love others in CN to weigh in on this. Was your ex sexually selfish? The “take, take, take, finish in five minutes and be done” kind of selfish? My guess is most cheaters are like this. Selfishness runs deep. And if that’s the case… what’s to miss? Another meaningless, boring, super-fast romp with Mr. Selfish- NO THANKS.

      • Over it, yes, yes, yes. Incredibly selfish in bed, and out. Only time he wasn’t selfish is if it benefited him. Can’t imagine him being different for anyone else cause that’s how he rolls.

        • Absolutely NO WAY they are different with someone else. As I said, selfishness runs deep. The AP is getting a totally boring, lazy, selfish sex partner. And now that they don’t have the super-fun spark of illicitness, it will just become mediocre and old- just like him! Have fun with that!

          • Raising hand – he was TOTALLY selfish in bed and everywhere else in life! Why I didn’t dump him sooner for his one-way sex is beyond me. Nope – he won’t change for her. He doesn’t like vaginas or something. No changing those spots. Since she is a swinger, I’m sure that didn’t set well with the super-charged-horny-whore. He would have freaked if she’d asked him to go down on her and would have lost his hard-on completely – you know, too much pressure when they expect reciprocal. He wouldn’t even know how to do it. bwahahaha!

      • Sex with my ex was good in the beginning, but he got selfish pretty fast, and now I realize how childish he was about anything I wanted. If he was doing something and I liked it and told him so, he’d never do it again. If I wanted something he wasn’t doing and I requested it (ooooooh so nicely!), it would never happen. When things needed spicing up, I’d get us lingerie or toys, he completely refused to participate in that, would never step in a sex shop or even the lingerie section of a department store. If I got lingerie or a toy that I liked, it never got used, only the stuff he wanted. We had sex REALLY REALLY often (both high libido), but if I initiated directly, he’d be a passive-aggressive cold fish until I gave up, and soon I stopped initiating (and of course then he complained that I didn’t initiate!).

        Despite remaining frequent, our sexual activities got less and less engaged and satisfying over the years (and of COURSE he used that as one of his ‘reasons’ for cheating). In the last year, I had given him an ultimatum about how he treated the kids and I in general, he became MUCH nicer to us, and our sex life really started improving (surprise surprise!). The weekend before he went out of town for a long-term work project (he was away 4 days every week for months, home for 3) we had sex 8 times in 3 days, AND it was good. So when Schmoopie hit on him at his out-of-town project, of course he hopped into bed with her.


        • My exhole was the same way. Selfish and controlling. Not adventurous or generous at all. My attempts to change the boring pattern of our sex life were met with disgust. And yet, he screwed his nursetriss in the hospital parking lot.

        • My X was skilled in bed (which he should be, given that my current estimate is that he has bedded over 50 women), but over time it dawned on me that he didn’t really care about me at an emotional level, and my enthusiasm level dropped. He also expected porn-style moves & atmosphere, no matter how young a baby I had, and it wearied (and irritated) me. I didn’t get married to audition, I got married to connect.

      • Hell yes, he was selfish. He had a very “sensitive” nose… You know what that means…even after showering before hand. But would literally shove my head down to his thang. Also, kept telling me there must be something wrong with me..he couldn’t find my clit. 25 years, people…25 years. I was very young and completely inexperienced when I married him. What a waste!!!!

      • My STBX was very mechanical, not sensual in bed. I never, not once, had an orgasm in 38 years with him. I am easily able to manually climax, no vibrator necessary. When I got up the courage and gently asked him if we could “experiment” a bit more sexually so I could learn to climax with him (I was only 21 at the time…) it didn’t go as I’d hoped. I thought he would love to learn what pleased me. But no. I think it was a big ego blow to him. When he cheated on me the 1st time not 3 years into our marriage, he said he “needed to know he could make a woman climax”. So rather than have fun and play with and learn to thrill his beautiful young sexy wife, he chose the cheater route. I wish I had run for the hills then, rather than be 59 and trying to get untangled from his sticky poisonous web. I now know for sure that I was already in the clutches of an antisocial pathological narcissist. EVIL.

        • I was 55 and wasted 36 years! 3 years since I filed and 1.5 years since I divorced! At 58 it’s like being born again! Thank You Chump Nation! The truth sets you free!

      • Yes he was. I had a very active dating and sex life before I met him and when I think of some (not all) of these men, there are very good memories of both our in-bed and out-of-bed activities. I know that they didn’t sleep with me and forget me and some of them became way more attached than I was ready for, so I won’t say that as a woman I attached love to sex or the men I slept with didn’t experience emotions and sincere caring for me resulting in better sex.

        Fucktard was never very good in bed. I don’t know if it was selfishness or laziness, but he really wasn’t that good. I don’t just say this in hindsight, I was dissatisfied sexually before I knew he was cheating. I get aroused very easily so it doesn’t take much effort, he just didn’t listen to my needs. So he was lazy with it too. I seemed like I pulled more than my weight in that area too.

        I’ve started to wonder if I would have divorced him anyway if he had not cheated or if I was so dissatisfied in all aspects of our lives because he was cheating and that’s why I think this.

        • Yep Annie, I too was very dissatisfied with the bad sex/waning sex with Gaslighter. For waaaaay too long. Now with what I’ve learned about pathology, many of these types are rather asexual. They use sex to woo and capture, as a form of conquest. Then later withhold it from their primary partner as a form of abuse and control. Most pathologicals actually hate women, cannot bond, only attach like a leech. They abhor intimacy, can’t be truly intimate. Sex is a only a maintenance chore to keep the partner. I am sad that I allowed him to waste nearly 4 decades of my life both sexually and otherwise, while he was out fucking, cheating, lying conning – not only me but cheating business partners too. Doesn’t pay anyone he can get away without paying. I recently called a business for services and learned they had written off over $2,000 in unpaid invoices. Has borrowed significant sums of money from friends and family over the years with no intention of paying it back. Lucky Gaslighter then found a 55 year old widow with a multi millionaire father for last AP. People have warned her about him I’ve heard. She doesn’t care! Schmoopie can have him and his small sad 67 year old porn addicted penis. Good luck with that. He’s already gotten her under his psycho spell. Better her than I.

      • My STBX Twatcock is definitely the most selfish lover and the most unsatisfactory sex I have ever had. Insists on getting head, and absolutely refuses to return the favour because we (women) are disgusting and he wouldn’t ever use his lips south of the boobies. Anywhere.

        And the boobs had to be poking out of a tight top. Was not interested in me naked, in fact was very vocal about how he’d probably be attracted to me if I lost weight. Maybe. A two-three stroke wonder who would be snoring within 15 seconds of ejaculation, with his fat gut and back hair quivering with each prolonged snorting snore. Just awful.

        He was fascinated with ‘throat fucking’ but the very sad part is that he isn’t ‘large’ enough to set any gag reflex off. So many hours of research every single day to enact once a month for fifteen minutes. Porn addict prick.

        I still cannot quite figure out how this has been my life for the past dozen years.

    • Sex was a performance for him, and he was the star of the show. Skill and endurance in spades. No connection. No intimacy. No honesty. I could have been anyone. He just can’t really bond deeply. It was lacking and empty and most unsatisfying.

  • My wife never wanted to have sex with me during our marriage, she turned rejection into an art form. Headaches, too tired, a work project due next month, you name it. I was lucky to get it once every couple of months. Of course, I later find out that she bought a bunch of sexy lingerie and sex toys for her weekly excursions with the OM. No wonder she was too tired.

    So yeah…..I’m just a little pissed, and no, there are no worries about me ever touching her with a ten foot pole ever again.

    • I hear you, Blindside. I think they really get off on the power imbalance that their rejection of our sexual needs/interest gives them. They love saying no to prove they are so powerful. My EXH had perfected this also. Headaches, stomach aches, I’m too sweaty right now, I just showered and don’t want to get sweaty, too tired….yep, I heard them all multiple times every week of my almost 30-year marriage. When I asked him if he could just snuggle and hold me instead, he looked horrified and said, “Oh no! You know what that would lead to!” They are disordered, plain and simple. I’m so glad to have that cowardly liar out of my life.

    • Been there done that. Just like described in the Roger Melton article CL referenced.

      I think I heard No of various forms about 3-4 times a week for 11 years. Do the math (ok: 1700 rejections!)

      Number of times she heard “No” from me: 0.

      Toxic dynamic? I think so.

  • I wouldn’t have sex with Prince Charming when he came crawling back after Cinderella kicked him out. I told him I needed to see a clean health report, especially since he had been having sex with her with no condom. I didn’t give a rats ass he couldn’t get her pregnant because of the vasectomy he had. I KNEW her sexual history and the biggest was she has a trucker fuck buddy. So yeah, the only way, A condom that completely covered him head to toe.

    There is a term for all that sex after the affair it’s called hysterial bonding. NOPE wouldn’t do it. Sex with Prince Charming wasn’t all that great anyway. So it wasn’t like I was missing anything spectacular.

    • My ex was also a drama king and the sex due to hysterical binding was intense and delightful. Eventually my mind caught up with my heart. Don’t do it, as CL has said it sets back your healing, exposes you to all types of diseases, and pregnancy.
      These cheaters do not deserve your most precious possession, your body, and no I don’t sleep with hoes. I’m old fashioned so I’ll be saving it for my next husband if I marry. Right now I’m focused on being a better person, creating a new life, and discovering who I am.
      The last time I had sex with my ex, we were married and I did it to see if there was anything left. I discovered it was just sex, good sex, but not love making. Not the kind of act that cements a loving bond or makes you want to walk through life.
      I found myself looking at this person who had caused me such pain and all that was special was gone. Since the divorce he has hinted at the prosect but retracted his offer after I gave him a certain look. Don’t do it.

      • I should clarify Viagra weed laced sex. He had Ed issues and I suspect the alcohol and blue pills were having a more negative effect on his health as well as being expensive. The bond was broken. I didn’t want the added burden of possibly caring for a broke ass emotionally stunted cheat.

  • I wish I had found CN much sooner because I would have understood what hysterical bonding sex was and to avoid it ALL COSTS!!!

    I did it. It was terrible. I immediately felt ashamed of myself and he looked at me like I had just stepped on a baby chick. In my mind I was saying, “Fuck you OW, he still wants me!” Yeah right. All it did was feed the flames of the fresh pain I was feeling and he couldn’t get away fast enough afterward which made me feel a thousand times worse.

    Save yourself the humiliation.. I’d rather spend the rest of my life celibate and alone with 100 cats as company than put myself through that degrading experience again.

    • He, the scumbag cheater, looked at YOU judgementally?

      Wow. These freaks are simply hardwired to cause pain.

      • Very painful, yes.

        BTW, I answered your response from yesterday’s post. Very much appreciated. Sometimes I lag in my responses. School, work and child care keep me busy. But I always appreciate my CN peeps!

  • I have to say, I never considered having sex with my ex after DDay #2. In fact, I was relieved I never had to steel myself to do it with him again. He’s the only man I’ve been with but despite that, I knew something was missing and that the “something” was emotional intimacy. The last few years we were together it got worse and worse until it was clear even to chumpy me that I was merely a warm body to him – I could have been anyone. And once I found out about the dozen or so strippers he’d been fucking on his out of state business trips and started thinking about the long line of partners each one of those fucks exposed me to since we were having unprotected sex? No way. I dodged a bullet walking away without an STD so I sure as hell wasn’t going to knowingly play Russian Roulette with my life again.

    • Exactly! A warm body.

      I wanted to make love, he wanted a fuck. No intimacy, no connection, no depth of feeling. Totally mechanical and scripted. Nowhere but the bed. No foreplay, even after years of pleading and explaining that I needed that emotional warm up – that his preferred method of coming to bed an hour after me and starting to grope was not the least little bit appealing.

      I bought the clothes, the toys, the books, and the games. I suggested interesting places, tried outside in our big yard, wrote him sexy notes… He would not – WOULD NOT – try anything outside his preferences.

      And then he has the fucking nerve to spread the lie that I’m the cold bitch who denied him, forcing him to look elsewhere.

      • Geek mom – SO relate to your post. In fact, I’m stunned to hear of so many sexual issues here. I’ve written about this on the forum a few times, but never seen so many people who feel like me here on the public one. Us, meaning – the ones who lived sexually unsatisfied….with a spouse who turned out to be a real selfish dud in the bedroom and then became a cheater! I was so outraged by this fact after 35 yrs of giving BJ’s twice a week, that he gave me up for another ‘woman’?
        I was thundersouly ripped off! My therapist asked why I put up with that in the first place. I’m still trying to figure it out at 60 yrs old.
        This is why I love C/N – I relate so much to so many posts.

        “I bought the clothes, the toys, the books, and the games. I suggested interesting places, tried outside in our big yard, wrote him sexy notes… He would not – WOULD NOT – try anything outside his preferences.”

        • Yes Yes Yes this is me too…. How the fuck did the dynamic get that way? How fucking dare he trawl craigslist casual encounters and get hookers and be jerked off by guys as well while I was frustrated to the point of tears and bitter resentment of him NOT ONCE focusing on me. It fucked with my head to the point where I couldn’t get myself off anymore, and I was repeatedly humiliated when he would say how he thought the idea of me masturbating was revolting.

          I could have been finding fucks on Craigslist and getting hookers for myself the entire time – how completely unfair!!

          What a fucking disgrace he is. It makes me so ashamed and furious with myself to have not gotten the fuck out right at the beginning when he said that I ‘can keep that thing from going anywhere near his head’ with a disgusted look on his face – I remember being so shocked and hurt that I got up and burst into tears in the toilet. He went to sleep. I was crushed that he never apologised or acknowledged that he’d done something horrible.

          It sounds so fucked up when you lay it out like this – I love C/N too, because I can vent here and find that I’m not the only one going through stuff like this.

  • Ewwww. Just no. Even as a long time limbo chump, my dignity would never allow it. It just tells him you still want him back and strokes his ego. NO NO NO

  • The best revenge for you is to keep away from him; let him have all the cheater sex he wants, just not with you. You deserve better than that.

    • That’s it exactly.

      Let them have their cheater sex. Those bunny boiling, plastic-looking, no character having, empty-headed, dime a dozen, soul mate – nothings. Put them all in a room together and they wouldn’t be worth one skin flake off of our bodies.

    • I agree Soldiering On! Why don’t cheaters go have sex with the millions of other women out there. But no, they want to come back to their former spouse. They really are that lazy and think they’re going to get an easy lay by suggesting sex with the former spouse/partner.

      Think about it, it takes so much more effort to have sex with a new person. After all, they need to put in effort to groom themselves, go out, find someone, court them, spend money, time, effort and energy on them and they still might not get laid. In their minds, why the heck would they bother to put in that much effort, when it’s easier to turn around and suggest sex with good ol’ faithful ex-wifey. And yes, we are of use to them yet again. Kitchen is closed, FOREVER dude!

  • As most everyone here has said, Nomorechit – don’t go there. Really, it’s not worth it. Not only are you delaying your healing but there are so many risks involved (pregnancy, being played for a fool, getting your hopes up, not getting the desired revenge …).

    I never had to ask myself that particular question because mine had ED and couldn’t get it up anymore. And I wasn’t particularly attracted to him at that point anyway. However, we shared the marital home while all our paperwork went through and he wanted to continue as “normal” (ie. watch TV together, go to my swim meets and other races, go run or cycle toegether, give each other backrubs …).

    I nipped that in the bud really quickly, especially the back rubs. He kept offering, and I just kept up the polite, “That’s nice of you to offer, but no thank you.” One day he got mad and snapped: “It’s not like I’m going to feel you up or anything.”

    In the end, it was the best decision I ever made. It was hard to shift from wife to “acquaintance” mode after 22 years together but oh so worthwhile. I’m well into my healing process (D-DAY October 2015, divorced March 2016), while he’s still not there yet, despite being on GF#2. He regularly offers to do stuff in my new house. He still talks to me like he did when we were married.

    Really, that’s the best way to fuck with him to go off and live your life without him.

    • Mine also had “ED” (turns out he was just gay) and so foot rubs were the way I showed him human warmth and affection. Nice long ones each evening on the couch … him watching the news with his feet in my lap on the couch. Once in a blue moon, I would request the honor and he could manage about 2 minutes before he was just so tired from his long day that he had to go to bed. After I found love notes to another woman on our computer, he never got another foot rub the entire 2 years I was limbo chump. Not on your life, Bud. Selfish fucker.

      • Mine was the only guy I have ever had sex with. 25 years of FUCKING AMAZING sex, lovemaking and incredible connection. Lots of it. He was (probably still is) a very giving kinda lover. My only complaint, in retrospect? That he was just a tad less adventurous than me. The sex with maggot-face was apparently deeply unsatisfactory, she could never get wet, and he had to use every trick in the book. He says he had ED half the time with her (guilt) and she would never do a thing to “help him out” – her sexiness (delusional!) was supposed to be enough. He was very confused about how the hell he was doing what he was doing, when it was so damn ORDINARY. But, the whole town knows what he did, and the story goes that I had to be a slack fuck and he cheated with someone who would give him the amazing sex I never did (only 6-7 times a week or more, totally in love and totally willing, often the instigator, for 25 years, what a bitch I am!) To be fair, he has defended me to a hell of a lot of these arseholes when he has ever heard this bullshit story. But those smug bastards in the world of the unchumped always blame the chump. Otherwise it. Might. Even. Happen. To. Them. Zut alors!

        After D-day, the hysterical bonding was even better, for about two years. We had a lot of good sex before, during and after the affair. He was and still is absolutely appalled at his 15 month affair with my lifelong ‘friend’ – his ex GF. He did all the ‘right’ things, he worked damn hard and tried so hard to show me his deep regret. I even believe it, lol. But, then I lost it, couldn’t stand being touched by his diseased body. Yep, we got a couple of STIs, and the HPV meant I have had cervical changes that have required a lot of invasive treatment. My sexuality has been stolen. I don’t feel anything sexual anymore, even alone, even after six months of sex therapy, where the therapist treated me like some uptight, frigid bitch who just needed to let go and enjoy. Yeah, just like I did for 25 fantastic years! I still grieve the loss of my sexual self very deeply.

        And, not on your Nelly would I suggest that sex with the ex is any kind of good idea. Ever! Those filthy appendages need a warning sign on them! Ewwwww!

  • Your idea to use sex as a weapon and out-manipulate your ex is about as delusional as a person who just learned checkers thinking they can beat Bobby Fisher in a chess championship.

    You’ll lose badly and you’ll feel stupid and humiliated for even trying.

  • They don’t care. You will not “fuck” with him. He will fuck with you.
    The Institute drills this in your head:
    “They are sicker than you are smart.”

    Who knows what he might do? Pull out and call another woman in front you and ridicule you? Have sex with you and say…”Nah…I don’t miss that.” Look at your body and say, “You are still fat.”
    Pull up his pants, say Later and you will never hear from him again? Give you HIV?

    I would NEVER do this. Why? Because I don’t want to go insane. Sex with my X was amazing. I remember lying beside him, wanting to wake him up in the morning because I wanted more sex with him. He gave it his all. It was a tool, just like the article CL references.

    And, why would I allow someone to have sex with me when he did not value me enough to not have sex with skanks….when I was 110% faithful to him? IF he had valued sex with me, he would not have cheated on me. Does that break me? Yes. Is it true? Yes.

    In the history of bad ideas, this is in the top 5. There is someone reading who has considered it.
    This is the opposite of No Contact- the only way to regain sanity. If you have already done it, be easy on yourself. This is uncharted crazy town, and we are going to make big mistakes. Just go NC to the Max.

    Lastly, in the mind of a narcissistic, disordered cheater, can you imagine anything that would make them MORE happy? So, I can cheat, and you still will sleep with me? I am amazing. Rules and consequences do not apply to me.

    Do you know what my X said to me, verbatim, at my kitchen table: “I would never put up with the things I do from a woman.” This still hurts deeply. I was trying to make a life together- he was playing games. Aware he was killing me?

    Hell to the NO!

  • Wanting to mess with him puts him center stage. Waiting for the karma bus to hit him does the same thing. Essentially, any type of vengeful though is giving him real estate in your mind and time you can’t get back. There’s nothing more empowering than disengaging completely. Then you’re free to heal. Make plans for yourself. By not focusing on sending him a message, you will then send the most clear message – you’re nothing to me. So empower yourself. His consequences will naturally follow as people with character like his are always digging more holes for themselves. You don’t need to worry about that.

    Easier said than done I know. I had thoughts of revenge too but now I realize I was just wasting more time.

    • “By not focusing on sending him a message, you will then send the most clear message – you’re nothing to me.” Perfect.

    • You are absolutely right. But I still cherish my revenge fantasies! I am giving myself permission to enjoy them now and then until the divorce is final, but am also making sure to stay active and working on gaining that new life.

      • I understand! I catch myself doing it sometimes too. But it does get less and less. I’m beginning to be able to think about the whole ordeal and not really feel anyway about it. I haven’t spoken to my ex since the divorce just over a year and a half ago.

        You’re still in the thick of it and it’s perfectly normal as long as it doesn’t influence you into doing something stupid.

      • I had a huge repertoire of revenge fantasies which included non traditional weapons, torture scripts, and costumes. For the most part I don’t actively think of revenge any longer. I will still see a movie and think, “Huh, that’s a good one” or post a comment on CL. I think that they serve their purpose as a release valve of sorts.

        • I’m interested in the Revenge-Theory.
          As angry as I was, I sure wasn’t going to give the slut any of my time for revenge.
          It was tempting to call her daughter, whom I knew well, and would certainly disapprove of her mother’s constant immoral behavior by screwing my husband and the OW was sure her daughter wouldn’t let her see her grand child if she found out. OK, so calling the daughter was tempting, but it wasn’t fair to the daughter or grandchild. (Yes, we knew them well) Besides, I cared about her daughter and the kid and the slut wasn’t worth my time.

          Revenge on him? ha! I just plain outsmarted him for about 8 months watching his affair unfold on my computer – in GPS format. When he found out I knew everywhere he had been with her, he freaked. I laughed heartedly when I told him how long I’d been following him. He wasn’t so smart after all. And, he became agreeable to a fair settlement. The bottom line is not revenge unless it’s in the form of emptying a lot of their pocketbooks.

          As they say, every time they have to write an alimony check will remind them of the foolish decisions they’ve made.

          • I actually never thought of revenge on her. My smart ass comment would be that having him is revenge enough, but honestly she is less than nothing to me. Yes she’s a whore and knowingly slept with a married man, but it couldn’t have happened without his participation.

            Let’s just say that if Fucktard ever dared to show me his dick or balls again, I’d pepper spray the shit out of them. What’s a little chemical burn?

  • I know this column ran previously, but sex with the STBX?! Is this for real?? Not only it won’t mess him up, but actually REWARD him for bad behavior, but it will mess YOU up Nomoreshit. That is such doormatty behavior and it will further drop your worth and value in his eyes. All of which you are volunteering for. And after sex, you’ll see that he’s the same ol’ scumbag who cheated on you, except that he’ll start treating you worse, much much worse. And why do you want to mess him up? Who cares what he thinks, he certainly isn’t thinking of you when he’s having sex with other women.

  • WOW!

    I cannot even imagine considering sex with my STBX. In fact, once I discovered all of his online profiles, I was literally repulsed by his touch. I eventually shared with him, after he left me, that having sex with him – and knowing what I did – made me feel like I was being raped… emotionally and physically. His reply, with stone cold eyes and a flat tone, “I can see how you would feel that way. What do you think about these sunflowers in my garden.”

    Flash forward to one year after his discard, I invite him over to discuss the divorce terms. Instead, he brings wine and we kill two bottles sitting on the couch while holding hands (it was our wedding anniversary too). He didn’t feel like talking about the divorce… couldn’t we just enjoy the wine? I sobered up the minute he looked at me and said, “Wouldn’t it be romantic if we fell in love again after the divorce?” All the while, he had just celebrated his one year anniversary with the OW. WTF!

    As CL stated – we MUST stay away from these NPD fuckwits. Sex IS a manipulation tool for them. It is never about love. And, you can never “get even” with a mentally disordered person. You aren’t playing the same game.

    And, FWIW, I filed for the divorce a couple weeks after the event with the wine. I took back my life.

    Rock on Chump Nation. Rock on.

    • “I was literally repulsed by his touch.” Everyone is different, and I have no idea what I’m doing much of the time, but this is exactly how I feel. While lining up ducks, I have to try not to flinch when he holds my hand or touches my shoulder. Every few days, when I sense he’s getting suspicious (he alleges he desperately wants R), I force myself to hug him.

      ICanSeeTheMeh, and others who tell their stories while newer readers catch up, 1) thank you; and 2) reading this post, I thought, “another stone cold killer,” and, “wow — right in the midst of what was the perfect recipe for disaster, she caught and saved herself!”

    • I totally told my ex, as we were working through the divorce, that the thought of him touching me was repulsive. He repeated it with tears in his eyes, so I am guessing that really “hurt” him. Nah, he just knew that he had one less weapon to wield. These monsters have no feelings.

      +1 on “you’re not playing the same game.”

      • I told mine the same thing–I now found him physically repulsive. He employed the hurt look, too, which is really just the Pity play of Manipulation.

    • Ugh. I can so relate. There was a moment, in the time after we separated when the (now) ex was still coming over on the weekends but sleeping in the guestroom, when he stood beside my bed with his hand on my leg and told me he never stopped wanting me [through all the affairs, porn and stripper fucking I guess]. Uh thanks? I remember being terrified he was going to try to climb in bed with me. I was prepared to go scrambling out the other side of the bed if he did. True statement here: “Sex IS a manipulation tool for them. It is never about love. And, you can never “get even” with a mentally disordered person. You aren’t playing the same game.”

  • x wanted sex also. Felt like a power play to see how much further I would degrade myself. I could barely stand to be in the same room with him much less let him touch me. He would try to give me a goodbye hug and and I was totally repulsed.

    • Me too. X offered several times to consider a better settlement for me if I would have sex just one more time, please. Revolting on every level, and was still trying to find hooks to degrade me. If his mouth was moving he was lying.

  • I had this fantasy about 3 months after D-Day. I was going to get him back as a “friend with benefits”! I told a friend of mine about this great idea and she said, “Are you insane? Do you really want to relive the pain of the last 90 days?”

    Uh, no.

  • If you want to know how a cheater thinks, sleep with your STBX just to fuck with him.

    • What you said. You’re speaking their language and feeding them. Also, you get a fine opportunity to get exposed to cheater STD’s . Awesome.

      • But, if someone did do this, (slept with the X) we can understand….because being betrayed to our core can make us feel so out of control, panicked and crazed. I do believe hysterical bonding is real. That could also manifest itself into thinking…I can pay them back! It is delusional, but I know it would be so easy to fall into those “mind traps.” And if it is their husband/wife, they are not consciously being a “cheater.” The betrayal cuts so deep, we can become wild, like a raccoon trapped in a chimney.

        When you first find out, and if you don’t know about CN, you may make terrible mistakes. I know I did. I never slept with again, but I called him and cried like a baby, many times. I tele spoofed him (that was not so long ago) because I wanted to hear his voice. I had friends email him. (Cringe inducing).

        I just don’t want someone reading this, sitting alone at home, chumped and miserable, to feel bad if they did do it. The only thing that stopped me is my extreme pride and jealousy. The thought of him touching another woman sends me into a rage. If he tried to get naked with me, I would bite his penis off.

        After I ended it for good, he tried for about 6 weeks (weakly) to get me to forgive him. He acted like nothing happened. (Another bizarre topic). When I refused and ignored him or told him what he broke could not be fixed, he moved on. Completely. He stopped contacting me in anyway.

        If he was showing up at my door, putting the moves on me, with those baby blues….I might mess up. It would be catastrophic, but it could have happened even 6 weeks ago. Thanks to the teachings of CL and the group support her, I can say it would not happen now. As Tempest said, I don’t want to put my hand on a hot stove.

        If someone did do it, and is reading this (CL had 10 million readers, remember?) don’t beat yourself up. Just go forward and never do it again. We are navigating a road of out of hell. We are going to stumble, fall and cry. Brush off and get up.

        When we know better, we will do better.

        • Because my X was NOT bad in bed…he was super off the charts. Who do you think bought me the Lelo? 🙁
          But, as always with the disordered, as many have written, when he sensed how much I loved it, it became a power to lord over me.

          They take everything good, and they make it rotten.

          • Sorry to interrupt your poignant post SIS, and I’m jealous you had a good one in bed.
            I looked all over the Lelo site and there are many types of vibrators – do you recommend a good one?
            I have The Wand and thought it was the best. (Oprah even promoted it) They haven’t worn out in my 30 yrs of using them…

            Signed, sex by moi.

  • “I want to fuck with him the way he did with me ALL THESE YEARS.”

    So, you’ve spontaneously combusted, acquired a character or personality disorder that is MORE embedded and automatic than his (to fuck with is to win the power game, and a draw doesn’t count), and assume that even thus equipped, he won’t deploy another discard tool you haven’t seen yet sucks that you only thought you had become more ruthless than he?

    After YEARS’ of evidence that he is a sick, abusive creep for whom you were not really a person, let alone a worthy contender in the arena of mindfuckery? I’m usually not bossy around here — too new, too dumb, and typically inclined to holler only at victims only when I’m sure the soft sell won’t work. I’m sure. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING? Whatever it is, JUST. STOP.

    You’ve seen plenty of posters here give you the way it will play. I get the urge, I don’t blame them for having to find out the brutal way, and my heart goes out to them. Maybe it’s just that your query to CL got edited, but I detect a level of casual in your question that I have not seen in other posts.

    You can’t afford to be casual. If you don’t believe it, pretend. Believe that empirical evidence you see here is a lot more reliable than wishing. Wait a year. If you haven’t already, get a therapist. Discuss your plan.

    Hegel: “The owl of Minerva flies only at dusk.” You’re at 3 a.m. I hope you set a path towards dawn.

    • Wow Claire – that was good. We could use more of your wisdom here. You are a good detector of things I missed. ‘Casual’ thinking when you’re playing in a very hot fire.

  • Your wanting to have sex with him is a clear sign that you’re still seeking his approval, and have not accepted that he truly sucks.

    • Having sex with the X once I discovered he’d been with another woman (possibly more) I was so turned off by him….let alone his little man penis. I would no more have touched that again than I would have kissed him again. I just don’t get it. Sorry.

  • Right after DDay one of my good friends and co-workers told me “Whatever you do, do NOT sleep with him.” My level of disgust for the EX was so bad that I couldn’t even stand within 3 feet of him without wanting to hurl…like projectile vomit hurl…..He proposed sex on my birthday which was 3 weeks after DDay and my response to him was “I don’t have sex with strangers”. Besides, he was a lazy, selfish lover anyway, so why bother….

    The best revenge truly is to live well. And you can’t live well if you keep dragging the garbage you put out to the curb back into the house…

  • If you really want to fuck with him, pretend he doesn’t exist. There is nothing that hurts these narcissistic fucks more than you living your life and showing them that they. do. not. matter. They are so obsessed with being the center of your attention (good or bad, they don’t discriminate) that it will unravel their sense of superiority faster than you can say “no contact.”

    As a quick aside, my Mom always told me that the opposite of love wasn’t hate-it’s indifference. Hating someone still shows that on some level you care. Indifference (aka “meh”) is what we need to strive for in this situation. Take their power away, don’t let them have sway over you or your emotions/actions.

    • It took me awhile to realize but everyone’s very true and valid point about cutting off the attention supply works like hitting the wicked witch with that bucket of water.
      I’ve never seen a grown man melt so dramatically as when I stopped all contact. It would’ve been fascinating had it not been so painfully annoying.

      It was like being in your office at work and your ex sets up a giant trampoline to bounce in front of your windows non stop screaming “look at me!” “Validate me!” And then you go to lunch with your friends….

    • Very true Ugh no! The opposite of love is definitely not hate. It’s indifference. Hate implies passion and that makes sense because when I first found out about the ex’s affair I hated him and the OW with the strength of 1000 white hot suns. Three years of wreckconciliation beat that right out of me much like 12 years of catholic school beat the faith right out of me.

      Indifference=Meh and Meh is the place we all want to get to…on a Tuesday!

  • The idea that you can use sex or any other expression of deep human emotion on these Narcs is ludicrous! They use sex, sympathy, empathy and their version of “Twu wuv” in a whole different way. It doesn’t have the same meaning to them. It’s merely a tool they use to 1) satisfy their very base need, 2) as a manipulation to get their other needs met. If anyone thinks for one moment that sex, kids, family, funerals or anything else is going to rattle the last brain cell of basic humanity in a cheater then you are in huge denial. Most of us on these posts have been in long term relationships with these cons, so we are, from what I can gather, in our late 30’s to our 60’s. I have to make a leap and believe that the cheaters are about the same age as the chumps. Do you really think that by having sex with them that you are going to teach them some sort of life lesson about human emotions and love! Or that they are suddenly going to miss your special golden vagina/penis? They certainly have already proven to you that your anatomy can be easily replaced. Hell no! That ship sailed long ago and sunk! Sorry, but my ex is in his early 60’s and so am I. I don’t wish to try to teach him how to be a real, authentic human being at this point in time. It would be a waste of my precious time. I do, however, feel sorry for the fact that they misused and abused these emotions and actions for selfish gain and they will NEVER really experience the depth of emotion or love that a “normal” person assigns to to them! But the Narc cheater doesn’t care anyways. This way of life and getting what they want is “normal” for them and they don’t really care about the bodies they leave in their wake! I vote NC and stay as far away from them as you can. You wouldn’t put your hand on a burning stove either because you should know you’ll get burned and badly! Treat the Cheater the same!

    • Roberta-you rocked it out.

      Bam, Bang, Bop, Bingo….every word you just wrote helped me tremendously. I just copied it to print out later and put on my “not lose my mind” poster board. (Yes, I did a vision board….one half to keep NC, the other half of the new life I want. I need all the support I can get)

      Truth. It hurts like hell. It leaves me dazed…who they are.

      But, like I said on that Friday post, I would rather be sad than stupid.

      • Sylvia is Sad, glad I could encourage someone. It took me over 3 years since D-day and over one year since my divorce (after 41 years of marriage) to get to this point. I stay here to learn and share as much as I can. If I can shorten the pain that other Chumps are feeling then I feel better. And if they are younger chumps then I encourage them especially to realize that what happened is in no way their fault and to negotiate this shit as quickly as possible! I realize that is easier said than done, but life isn’t going to wait for us. Time passes and joy is out there. Our cheaters don’t sit around worrying about us for sure. So why worry about them? Get through the inevitable grief and go grab life and joy. It really does get better and just like anything else we have to consciously CHOOSE joy and happiness. It’s when you realize you are not a victim, but you were victimized! There is a difference. So what are you going to CHOOSE to do about it? Sit and continue to be miserable? Seek revenge on cheaters who don’t give a shit about you? Entertain ideas about the karma bus rolling over them? Or are you going to CHOOSE to really live? I’m 60 and I chose to really live!

        • Bam, Bang, Bop, Bingo! I agree with SIS.
          You nailed it and you rock.
          I just turned 60 and married most of those years and it’s taken me 2 yrs past divorce to see that I actually have choices, that I picked myself! (odd feeling) It was a bit of a difficult journey realizing how free I suddenly was. My very own new/old home. My very own dogs. My very own money. Surreal. Nobody to have to argue with but myself!

          Now, any vacuum I had has been filled up with new friends, new dogs, new acquaintances, new neighbors, new opportunities, new choices…
          I am still astounded I made it through the dark hell and out the other side.
          It’s still not always easy but I usually wake up in a good mood with my feet hitting the floor. That’s what puppies make you do. I’m even having dreams that I can flap my arms and fly. Seriously! That’s what getting 9 hrs of sleep does to you. Dreams..

  • Sleeping with your STBX is akin to the view that you can eat a piece of food that drops on the floor, as long as it wasn’t there for longer than 5 seconds (supposedly the time it takes for creepy things to crawl onto the food). What we now know is that the 5-second rule is wrong, and dropping food on the ground is more akin to dropping something in ketchup–bacteria gets on it immediately.

    Avoid bacteria & food poisoning; don’t sleep with your STBX.

  • Use your hot bod to go get under some New Guy. That’s what I did and it feels AMAZING. New guy will worship and adore you. At some point STBX will find out about New Guy (mine did, quite by accident… Ran into him on the street) and I’m telling you: revenge is best served up cold. X lost his mind. It was great!

    • Do tell. Was he all red faced and stormed off or was he pissed and ranting?

    • “use your hot bod to get under some new guy”
      The best revenge is living well 😉

      Couldn’t imagine having sex with my stbx ever again anyways-bald, hairy, lazy, selfish & can’t keep it up. It would always end where I would have to do hj or bj and then nothing for me……ugh. Can’t believe I put up with that for years…..smh

  • +1 Tempest. I’m not going to waste my time teaching a gray headed old cheater how to act like a real human being! If he didn’t pick up on it in 61 years he never will. But that is their loss, not ours. I’m with a poster above who said indifference is the best course of action. Get rid of them and go live your own life. Don’t let them ruin your life with thoughts of revenge. They don’t care anyways. Quit drinking the poison and hoping they will die. It does not bring you to the joy that life can give you and it certainly doesn’t open you up to the prospect of a healthy relationship down the road. It just makes you more bitter.

  • When the final d-day occurred, along with the brutal discard, I danced for 2 weeks. OMG he loved having that power over me. Happy, skipping around, getting dollied up for his dates with cock slobber. Meanwhile I am…..can’t even think of words….but my fellow chumps know what I’m feeling during this time.
    I knew when he chose cock slobber over me that I was done.
    Today? He is at a loss on how to engage with me in any form. I got him so backed into a corner, if he makes a move I breathe fire on his stupid lowlife ass. Don’t look at me, don’t speak to me, don’t breathe my air space. This body??? I got men salivating over an opportunity to even get in the vicinity of it. The body he rejected? This person he beat down and degraded?? Bitch please I’m back with a vengeance and he will NEVER touch it again. Difference between me and cock slobber? She will bed anyone who gives her any attention. Me?? I know my worth. I’m 50 years old. You will have something to offer me this time around if your penis is lucky enough to find itself in my vagina.
    Those fucking assholes who didn’t want us anymore?? Make them not forget it for the rest of their sorry fucking pathetic stupid life. I don’t care if it’s meh or not. I will always remind cluster fuck B the difference between quality and common slutty whores. My pleasure in fact to offer this as a consulation parting gift?
    Listen, when he chose such garbage over me, regardless of the circumstances, whether or not he is a sociopath, no matter if he hadn’t properly thought through his actions, ABSOLUTELY NO MATTER WHAT, that tiny little moment in time, that possible moment that he was not in the least bit worried about losing me, that he chose cock slobber over me? I will make sure he doesn’t forget it.
    Greatest thing ever? I would not want to be him. He had 18 years of his sociopath cluster fuck B life safety netted by a rock solid chump. I pulled that net out fast. I would be scared shitless if I was him. I will never have sex with that piece of shit again. Gross??

  • Hell, I did it. It’s astonishing to me now. She was desperate to save the marriage and showing passion I had not seen in 18 years (she had been sharing abundantly with others), and I was destroyed and an emotional wreck. I guess that had something to do with it.

    Isn’t it strange in this situation how you can seek comfort from the person who abused you? I think I read somewhere that it has something to do with the bargaining or denial stage. Whatever stage it was, it was error to do it. It made detaching harder. The only stage I should have been on was the one heading away from her. Eventually found it.

  • If I had to have sex with my ex ever again, I think that I would be compelled to turn all S&M on him, but without the “M” only the “S”

  • I made that mistake after the separation and he was merrily love bombing the Ns/AP/MOMMY/wife/appliance. . Then he asked me to lend him $65000 of my settlement money. Oh ya!! Wackjob scumbag!!never never ever again….

  • I recall thinking maybe one more time, just for sex, no emotions. THANK GOD I didn’t!! You will feel grossed out one day thinking back on it, I promise. YUK! Cheater D*** EWWW!!!!

  • Revenge is never providing supply ever again.

    I was thinking about the ‘spark’ and ‘lighting the fire’. I imagined running into my burning home to save him. He was sitting on the bed with flames all around him holding the match, laughing. His mask dropped. I saw him.

  • I could NEVER imagine in the best dream every entertaining the thought of being in my X’s arms, much less being naked with him only to realize, once again, it’s limp and ain’t raising to the occasion of seeing my vagina. 12 year marriage and it was limp the ENTIRE time. (Can one become a virgin again after 15 years of no penetration? – just wondering)
    I’ve heard that in some states if you sleep with your STBX or even have them sleep in the same house, some judges don’t like that and don’t take too kindly to your sleeping arrangements. So be careful, be very careful of sleeping with the ex as it could have great consequences that could be damaging to your case. I think in some states it could even change the time line of your separation date.
    Besides why would you want to lower your standards to his level. Pull up your big girl panties and go find that man that will look at you and think he scored big. You don’t need the STBX to give you that valadition.

  • Hell. To. The. NOOOO. I never thought I’d reach the point where the man I once couldn’t keep my hands off of makes me want to vomit just looking at him now. No thanks, I don’t like used goods. And believe me ‘its ‘ been used, and used, and used…. And some of the stuff he’s stuck it in….<>.

  • In the last few seconds, I thought of ten things that would be LESS HARMFUL to you than sleeping with your ex.

    10. Sticking your hand in the garbage disposal to fix it… while it’s running.
    9. Applying eyeliner with a really sharp pencil while driving behind an “anxious braker” in rush hour traffic.
    8. Doing new yoga positions on a twentieth story balcony with no railing.
    7. Playing with a crossbow while high on peyote.
    6. Eating random mushrooms you find in the woods.
    5. Swimming in that South African bay where all the 18-foot Great Whites live while on your period.
    4. Shopping at a Discount Parachute Outlet.
    3. Walking around Times Square, waving your Social Security card, yelling, “Who wants a new identity?”
    2. Swimming in a vat of honey, then napping on a fire ant hill.
    1. Pouring hydrochloric acid down your pants.

    If someone walked up to you and said they were going to do any of those things, you would tell they were nuts and to go to a safe, quiet place until the urge to hurt themselves went away, right? Sleeping with your ex will only hurt you. There’s no way it will help you. There is no closure. There is no revenge. Only pain. And possibly an STD.

  • The short answer, in my opinion is: Normal people bond. Disordered people don’t.
    The very fact that she is asking this question, means she is still rationalising. she still hopes, she still feels and thinks for the disordered. Wrong town! Don’t let these fuckwits occupy space in your head, heart, body and life!
    There is really nothing a chump can do to get revenge, other than cut their loses short and move on ASAP.

    We’ve all been there. But let me tell you: once I decided to STOP thinking about all that s*t, I was able to move on. And from “I don’t know how to get rid of her” (buls*t, I never needed to chase a guy!) to still being obsessed about me years later … even a blind could see the truth.
    Detach! Life is not some game to win against losers. Life is precious, think of it as a gift and do your best with it.

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