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Dear Chump Lady, Should I divorce his cheating, Mormon ass?

abandonmentDear Chump Lady,

My story began last October when my husband of 11 years had a three week affair with random online girl. I found out about it via text messages on his phone. He was sorry. We have 5 kids under the age of 9. We are Mormon and have strong beliefs about how important having a strong “family unit” is in today’s world. I love him.

We started counseling, went to our religious leaders, cried and fought but all with the hope to “work it out”. Fast forward to Valentines day, 2014. Again via his phone, I found out he had been having another “emotional affair” for the previous 4.5 months with my friend from church! EVERYTHING but actual physical touching of each other.

I kicked him out. He was sorry. I was weak and dependent. I have been a SAHM for 9 years! We went tomorrow counseling, cried, fought more and I ended up leaving on a month-long trip to our home state to get some clarity. I was a train wreck! An emotional roller coaster- the upside down, backwards and insanely fast kind.

I came back home and he was living with a friend. We were going to go to more counseling. After he bailed on the first appt, I checked out our cell phone account and saw that while I had been away he had been talking to and texting 4-5 other women on a daily basis. I don’t know if he had actually dated them.

That was when I put a GPS tracker on his car and followed his ass on a date! I hopped chain link fences, I hid in bushes and took pictures of them holding hands, making out on the street and ultimately checking into a hotel for the night.

I confronted him with the evidence. He said he wants a divorce. Here’s where I need advice…he won’t file! He has been living away from the family since April. A lawyer I consulted said that I could take the proactive approach and file myself, or take the reactive approach and see what he does (as long as he kept supporting us financially). I went the reactive route.

I am convinced he doesn’t want to file because he knows that if it gets to court I will whip out all my proof of multiple infidelities and then it will be court recorded and could affect his top-secret security clearance.

Meanwhile, he thinks he is getting joint custody of the kids and putting the 2 & 4 year old in daycare while he is at work!! WTF?

In the last weeks he has canceled visitation days to go on dates and other social activities. He is going to concerts, golfing, taking fishing trips and dating!

I don’t want to spend thousands of dollars in a court case but am not willing to let him off the hook when it comes to spousal support, full custody and child support. I don’t want to be the money-hungry bitch ex wife, but we had a very comfortable life and he chose other women over his wife and kids.

Should I go the mediation route or just file for divorce? Is it worth the money to just get the process started? I have finally come to grips with the fact that I am worth so much more and he is an Asshole. I want to be done with him. Please lend me some of your knowledge and experience!

Fierce Mommy

Dear Fierce Mommy,

You are sitting in the catbird seat. He left five kids, you have proof of his cheating, and he’s canceled visitation to go on dates. Absolutely file for divorce. File for primary custody and spousal support too while you’re at it.

Will the infidelity effect his security clearance? I tend to doubt it, but perhaps more knowledgable chumps can chime in here. My cheating ex had a level Q security clearance and three divorces (that I know of) because of his infidelities. And yet people hire him. Go figure. It may be that they’re only interested in his divorce, and leave the particulars alone. I don’t know. But this is something to ask a lawyer about.

It’s certainly leverage however, and Fierce, don’t you dare pull your punches!

This man, like many other idiot “parents” (in the loosest term) want 50-50 so they don’t pay support. You’ve been a SAHM, sounds like he has a good profession, my guess is even without the infidelity, courts are going to take the path of least resistance. You get the kids, he pays support and gets every other weekend, or whatever standard visitation looks like.

But he LEFT you and 5 kids in April. And courts take that shit seriously. As they do documenting when he fails to show for visitation. I’m not a lawyer, but IMO, you’ve got a lot to work with here. You’ve got proof of his infidelities, which is often admissible even if you don’t live in a fault state. (Can effect custody, depending on the judge.) So save all your evidence!

I don’t want to spend thousands of dollars in a court case but am not willing to let him off the hook when it comes to spousal support, full custody and child support. I don’t want to be the money-hungry bitch ex wife, but we had a very comfortable life and he chose other women over his wife and kids.

Fierce, to get spousal support, custody, and child support — I’m sorry, but YES you have to spend thousands of dollars on a court case. Here’s the thing with cheaters, they might say “sorry,” but they don’t DO sorry. He’s not going to make this easy for you. He’s NOT going to give you a fair settlement. He’s going to do what he’s always done — chump you for his own benefit. Because he’s Special that way.

You go demonstrate that in court and let some judge hand his “special” to him.

You’re NOT a money hungry bitch, and fuck whatever Mr. Cheaterpants says to the contrary. You’ve got five children to support and a life to put back together. He blew up SIX people’s lives to fuck around. Damn straight he can pay the price.

Look, life is not going to be as financially comfortable as it was before. It’s just not. BUT, you won’t be at the mercy of a cheating asshole either. And you can rebuild — but you’re going to need support, which you’ve EARNED as a faithful partner. Do your damnedest to make the court see it that way.

Get a pit bull lawyer. Not a friendly mediator type. A lawyer with fangs, who if this was 1200 AD would have his opponent’s head on a pike as a warning to the other lawyers. You want Genghis Khan, Esquire.

And when you serve him, I hope Mr. Cheaterpants is wearing his magic Mormon underwear. He’s going to need it.

This column ran previously.

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  • “Get a pit bull lawyer. Not a friendly mediator type. A lawyer with fangs, who if this was 1200 AD would have his opponent’s head on a pike as a warning to the other lawyers. You want Genghis Khan, Esquire.” <<< True(!) and also funny how she said it!

    My ex also wanted to mediate (his words "it'll be cheaper and faster."). Thankfully I have a few good friends that told me in advance not to mediate (that's before I found CL.) I know it's tough to fork out the money for a bit bull lawyer, but YOU HAVE TO DO IT. I can't tell you how many times I'm complained to my sister about the money I was spending on the lawyer, but she said I had to do it in order to secure a good future for myself and the kids. Fierce Mommy, think of the money spent as an investment in your future. I'm not money hungry either. I never have been and never will be. But I need money to take care of the kids, myself and to "gain a life." I was a SAHM for seven years. I went back to work at a part-time job once my youngest started school. My job was not a career. Now I need the alimony to get a career and build a future for myself so that I can take care of myself the rest of my life. You will need to do the same if you didn't have a college or trade education before you became a SAHM. All this takes money. The fact that you were so smart getting a GPS for the car (wish I would have thought of that years and years ago!), we all know you are one mighty woman and you will do great! Listen to the advice that CL and CN gives you today. I wish you the best with your divorce and your GREAT LIFE that's ahead of you. You can do this and big ((((HUGS)))) to you!

    • I’m just realizing this was a column that ran previously.

      My ex did the same thing. Mid-December 2014, he asked for a divorce. In the Divorce Letter, he said he “didn’t have a plan” as to how the divorce was going to proceed. Later on that month he said he wanted to mediate. I told him I wasn’t going to mediate. He asked me again and again. He didn’t file for divorce. Wouldn’t leave the house even though he was making the kids and I miserable. I ended up filing early February on the advice of my lawyer and family. That was very hard to do, but I’m happy I did it. My “Christian” ex proceeded to try to wear my down. He tried to break me. He was doing a fine job at it. I ended up moving out with the kids at the end of June. Only an evil monster would do this to another person. A Christian man would not do this to the mother of his children. I did NOTHING to deserve to be treated like this, but he had “his rights.” As others have posted so many times on this blog, we are used to diminishing our needs and wants with these selfish, disordered, entitled people. It’s not normal for us to say to ourselves, “What about me? What are my needs and wants?” Well, we are just as important as every one else and we deserve equal treatment! I always “helped” and fought for the needs of others. All that has happened to me with my ex has made me a fighter for myself!

    • Yes, mine wanted to mediate with just the two of us. Even in the midst of chaos, I couldn’t wrap my head around this. What he really wanted was to manipulate me into a better result for him. I went the pit bull lawyer route and cried each time I paid his bill.. In the end, given the circumstances, it was worth it.

      • Different Pod, same script. He wanted mediation too. No lawyers, he said, they are expensive. Really? Isn’t that why YOU went to law school. No thanks, I’ll get myself an attorney.

        Thing is, I am not asking for anything extraordinary and we already discussed most of the details beforehand. He’s been very agreeable. Paying his half all this time during the separation. Suddenly I hire an attorney and his Jekyll (Hyde?) personality surfaces. Accusing me of wanting more than my fair share. I have to remind myself that in his muddled brain everyone is as selfish and devious as he is. I just want my freedom and a fair share of what I earned during our marriage.

            • Even more ironic is how people can sue for emotional trauma in other types of lawsuits yet it isn’t allowed to be a factor in a divorce. Why is that? My productivity at work has suffered. I am in counseling. I have had to take off work to care for kids when sick or when they need to go somewhere. I spent three years trying to work things out with him while he lied to me, cheated on me, spent thousands on drinking and gambling. And then he walked out on me when I was 6 months pregnant. How is that not emotional abuse and trauma? How did we get to a point in this country (or at least my state) that divorce is no-fault regardless of the circumstances?

              • So true!! The system is void of any moral compass and before I was a part of the system myself (due to my current circumstances), I didn’t really realize how bad it really was. Now I will never be able to turn a blind eye, and if there’s someway I can help change things, I would love to focus my life on that someday. For now I’m just trying to survive all this, but now that I have been awakened to the current state of our system, I will never be able to sit idly by again.

              • Wow, this is so spot on, GetMeFree. I was diagnosed with Complex PTSD. How is that not emotional abuse and trauma like you said? The one thing is my lawyer did ask me if I was going to a counselor and I said yes. He said, “Good. Keep going.” It was never brought up, but maybe he could have used that info for something? I truly think it’s wrong that there is No Fault Divorce. He cheated on me. He lied to me. He traumatized me and then he wouldn’t go away and leave me alone, which harmed me even more. How is this not abusive?

              • It would be nice if the US adopted a Game of Thrones Day where all current laws are suspended. Then us chumps could avenge our suffering on the ex’s and AP’s.

              • I so agree with getmefree. In Canada, it’s worse. Everything comes down to comparing incomes, so if one spouse is ” self-employed” they can fudge whatever they need their income to be to their advantage. I have accepted that life is not fair and I chose to marry this pos but my kids should not have to suffer his consequences. And as for his Mormon ap, she totally screwed up her kids so that they’d live with her and she wouldn’t have to pay child support. I guess the Mormons have a new form of polygamous “family unit”. I used to see the commercials on TV and think how wonderful Mormons must be. Guess that’s where the word “hypocrisy” comes from. Now I get that it’s all about appearances. All is not fair in love and war accepted but “twu wuv trumps everything else” – narcissistic justification.

        • Done4Good, I understand the Jekyll/Hyde thing. My state requires a 1 year separation. During that time, he and I had a verbal agreement for the joint bills. Then he decided to go AWOL and stop paying. I had to track him down to confront him. He finally admitted that he wasn’t going to help with the joint bills anymore. So I lawyer’d up. He raged and threatened me. Definately Jekyll/Hyde.

          If there was an ounce of honesty, remorse, and conscience in them, they wouldn’t have cheated in the first place. No way you can mediate alone with someone that doesn’t have those qualities.

          • ByeByeCheater, you are so right! How can you mediate with someone who has no problem lying to your face and cheats. It’s impossible for this type of person to be honest and fair. I have a local male chump and one day his no ex-wife said she wanted a divorce. Said she wasn’t “happy.” Totally came out-of the-blue. He’s such a sweet guy that he actually felt sorry for her. Total chump! He went into mediation as a “nice guy.” Found out before the divorce was final that she had a married AP on the side. She screwed him in the mediation process, because he was trying to be nice. If I ever see this slut some day……..

      • My STBX was the same way. Kept asking me not to get a lawyer, that we could work this out between just the two of us. Tried to scare me with how expensive it would be… Finally, when he realized I wasn’t backing down he lawyered up with the most expensive/ high profile family law firm he could find. Everything is a competition to him and he had to feel like he was “winning”. Little did he realize a life without a cheating asshole made me the winner- period- end of story.

        • It seems that asking us to go to mediation and painting us as money-hungry bitches if we refuse is part of the narcissistic cheater playbook. Mine did the same thing and accused me of throwing money away on attorneys and “litigation.”

          To any new chumps reading this, please heed CL’s advice and lawyer up! And as others here have pointed out, consider the money spent an investment in your financial future. Without my pitbull attorney, I would never have gotten half of an account X claimed was gifted money from his family (a claim he made even when he was on the “charm” channel and was trying to get me to mediate instead of file).

          That alone paid for my attorneys fees, which in turn paid for my freedom. Priceless.

      • my traitor wanted to carry on MC to mediate the separation, with the MC that had said that sometimes outsourcing a bit of sex can be good for a marriage…I had insisted time and time again that I was only coming to MC to save the relationship and he tricked me into coming to that last session to drop his little bombshell. Anyway I said no. I found later that he had hired a lawyer 3 months before that session! He was getting mail from the lawyer sent to the whore’s grandma’s house (where he now lives, pretending that the and the whore just got back together after the split).
        After the MC session I tried to discuss separation finances with him, going round in circles with ever shifting traitor’s goal posts. Got sick of this so put a suggestion in writing. He refused to discuss it with me, said he would discuss it with his son (it was about farm succession too). He waited until I was out of the house to phone the whore and read her my letter and dissect it with her, make plans for their response with her. Whore said I just might gift the whole farm to her son. Ha! Thank god for the VAR. Now I knew exactly who I was dealing with. It took me that long!!! I was set upon by a pack of hyenas, the traitor, the homewrecking whore who’s done it to two marriages, the evil grandma. Some warped version of Little Red Riding Hood,

        • be very careful kiwi chump,they sound both devious and evil, consider changing your will and letting it be known (even if you won’t ) that you’re leaving everything to the local animal shelter-they’re a lot more loyal than humans, and why on earth would she think you’d give it to her son of all people

  • Not sure how this writers situation ended but I hope it was at the doorstep of Genghis Khan, Esquire.
    What I saw here for exploration is the quote “I don’t want to be the money hungry bitch exwife.” Many of us have thought this so if you are in this place right now I want you to know something….

    You could concede on every point and if your cheater so much as has to give you a table cloth they will tell everyone you are a money hungry bitch. It’s part of their impression management as a sad sausage. They want everyone to feel bad for them that’s why they don’t file. They want to be able to say look what she did to me, my life is so horrible, *sniffle*

    We spent so much of our time and effort making our needs smaller at we have a hard time grasping that we have needs and one of those needs is for respect and self respect, even if it has to be court imposed. They show. You who they are with their actions, you need to do the same.

    • Yes, this exactly! My stbxh (divorce final on Friday!!) Wanted to mediate and called me selfish for wanting half one one of his two retirement accounts. I found out why when it became clear he had been hiding money from me for years and the account I wanted half of was actually triple the size I thought it was!

      I left his other, bigger (union) account alone even though I was entitled to it, to, and I kept all of my student loan debt but I was still a “money grubber.” Yea right. The money wouldn’t have been an issue if he had kept it in his pants and not cheated on me multiple times with multiple women! I wonder how much of our joint money he spent on all four of them? At least 3 out of state trips not to mention lots of day to day little things.

      All this to say: they will say what they say because they are liars and if people choose to believe them without hearing from you your side of the story then fuck them. Marriage means sharing property. If they wanted to fuck around and keep all their money to themselves they shouldn’t have gotten married. We chumps put everything into the shared pot. They withhold and hide money and love and energy and intimacy. They are the selfish ones and asking for our fair share, the thing we both promised to give each other in the first place, isn’t selfish. It is sticking to your contract. They are the frauds trying to welch on a deal.

      • This is very, very true, Should Have. It’s a cheating mind-set, that includes stealing from the family (time, energy and money), telling 1/4 truths to your spouse, and doing lovely things like telling kids they can’t have music lessons because there’s no money for that, when really the money is going in their private bank account, for them to have whoring fun with! Or even worse, stealing your kids college money, which has happened to at least one Chump here. Sigh…some ‘people’. My own brother just stole some valuables from me, while I was at work one day! He’ll get his, there’s no way I’m ever trusting him again (he always wants to stay with me when he comes to town. No more of that!)
        I’m so glad I’m not one of these selfish Pods. I taught my kids to be self-supporting, and also generous to others. We all know how happy giving makes you, we’re Chumps! I’d much rather live in this tribe, than in the cheating and stealing one, they’re crazy and self-sabotaging!

      • This is an excellent example of when you try to play fair or even take less than what you are entitled they will scream money hungry bitch or something along those lines. Their narrative will be that you wiped them out no matter how little you walk away with, so may as well take them to the cleaners. At the very least make sure you get your fair share.

        • As I read here some time ago, cheaters already see chumps as weak. If you don’t fight for your money in the divorce they just think you’re stupid and weak.

    • I fully embrace the title of Money Hungry Bitch, which is just a variation of Hell Hath No Fury … He stole 30 years from me, so a generous settlement is the price. Asshole.

      • Exactly – you’re painted as a money hungry bitch no matter what, even when my ex used to complain how tight with money I was! He was egged on by OW, who ironically had been whining for 3 years to anyone who would listen that her divorce settlement was terribly unfair and she was a poor single mother. My ex cried poor when I suggested paying for mediation & sharing costs of elder sons counselling fees (OW was his teacher & he took it very badly). Yet he was stupid enough to pay for a $600 meal for 2, OW’s engagement ring from Tiffanys & overseas business class flights for them on our joint credit card. I pointed out this discrepancy & he flew into a narc rage. Encouraged by my friend, I saw a pit bull lawyer and am very grateful I played hard ball.

  • Fierce – it’s been two years since your column ran. Firstly, I hope you’re doing well. Secondly, I just want to say that if your ex really was a man of the faith, i.e., if he truly held to the credos, he would never have done this in the first place.* Be well.

    *Yes, I know there are plenty of Jesus cheaters in the the world, but my view on it is that proper faith requires genuine humility, and this guy sure doesn’t have it.

  • I don’t want to be the daddy prick ex-husband either, but if that’s what it takes to make my case that the Kunty Kibbler is a master manipulator and that my daughters are in far safer, saner hands by being with me the majority of the time, that’s what’s required.

    I know this is a previous column, but the advice all holds true.

    Document everything and retain every piece of evidence possible — even if it doesn’t ever end up being used.

    Insist on a lawyer that will be a bulldog and be prepared to pay. It’s the only chance you’ll have to come out on top.

    Accept the unfortunate fact that even with the right evidence and the right lawyer, the courts are unpredictable and want to keep the legal process moving. That means the likelihood that the outcome won’t be what you want or what is truly just. But you’ll be able to look at yourself each day, and into the faces of your children for the rest of your life, with integrity and self-assurance.

  • Fierce Mommy
    You rock! Wow as you told your story I imagined you in ninja garb gathering evidence. Do not mediate! You’ve got him by the short and curlies, he knows it. He obviously didn’t know his wife.
    Lawyer up!

  • Hey. Don’t mediate. Get a lawyer who you have the confidence will fight for you. Do it. Please.

    Chump Lady told me not to mediate. Chump Nation told me not to mediate. What did I do? I allowed myself to get pushed and pressurised into mediation. What a collosal waste of money and time.

    Chump Lady told me to get a pitbull lawyer. What did I do? Saw a few, picked the one I thought was tough. She was a partner, so her fees were too expensive, so she passed me to her colleague. Who was firm, but I never felt was enough of a fighter for me (I want to avoid saying aggressive, but that’s what I mean). For 9 long months I agonised whether she was the right lawyer for me. I’ve paid thousands. Then randomly, I meet another lawyer. A fighter. I’ve switched.

    So don’t waste time. Don’t waste money. Follow your gut instincts. Listen to those who have tread the path before you. Protect yourself. Good luck.

    • Oh man, I didn’t realised this was an old column. Oh well, maybe someone in a similar position to the OP will be reading.

    • Had the same thing happen to me, we assume they will do what it right (the Xs), we assume the expense we put into a lawyer will pay off, mine rolled over as soon as we walked into mediation, my pitbul sent a tiny demure lawyer that had another appointment that day so she just wanted to get done…

      anyway, after paying thousands of dollars, still had to split my savings (he has nothing) and my retirement with a cheating jerk that lost thousands of dollars over our 20 years together and was abusive and blew up our marriage because of his cheating…if only

  • I think the eternal problem that most of us see here is that nearly any spouse that goes after alimony and child support WILL be labeled the “money hungry bitch or lazy-bastard.” This is the narrative that angry EX’s spout to justify their own behavior. Frankly, even if a chump doesn’t ask for a cent, the EX may brag that he or she “kept that money hungry bitch or lazy-bastard from getting any money.” Cheaters do not see generosity as a gift; they see it as their due. Cheater’s do not see always see supporting their children as a responsibility; they frequently see it as a kind of vengeance the other parent is taking out on them.

  • “Here’s the thing with cheaters, they might say “sorry,” but they don’t DO sorry.”
    Write this down on a piece of paper and refer to it often.

  • You can never think of yourself as “money hungry” when you have one or 5 or a million children. This money is for all of you to have as close as life as possible to the one you previously had. Every cent counts.

      • I don’t see why religious persons get held up in this. Actually I think I do. We are all caught up in the Christian forgiveness mode. But a good read of your Bible would show you that adultery is a way out of marriage and it does not require repeated adultery. I think even God shakes his head when he sees chumps trying to make it work with adulterers. Marriage is not a synonym for torture

        • My belief is that God cares far more for the person and their wellbeing than a marriage (especially one where someone hasn’t the promises they made at the start of it),

  • I got a pit bull lawyer, and she automatically put in the paperwork a request for my husband to pay spousal support AND my attorney fees. I don’t know what the results will be yet, but it is so nice to have a lawyer who does all the back and forth negotiating and most of the financial decision making for me. She doesn’t even ask me if I want to request that support. She knows what I should need and deserve, and she’s probably dealt with chumps like me who wouldn’t ask for what we need to maintain our kid’s lives with us. So, if you get the best attorney, it’ll he worth it for the rest of your life- these are huge life decisions here- and you might not have to worry about your cost. Do what you need for your kids, without guilt. The chumps aren’t the ones who got our families in this situation; why should we feel bad for responding to what we were dealt?!

  • Im also curious how things worked out for “Fierce” and I do hope she got Gengis Khan, Esq for a lawyer.

    Ive said it before but – I was a fabulous wife. I would NOT have been one of those super cooperative pleasant, consciously uncoupling nice ex-wives…I would have been a bitch from Hell. (and I say that as a Mass attending grandmother who cares for dying children for a living). My former spouse ended up dying thus truncating any divorce proceedings we might have ever tangled in. (and no I had no part in his death, I would have never ever hurt him).

    What gets me about this story is the husband seeing the amount of pain and misery he caused and DOING IT AGAIN…I would have forgiven a single lapse, people make mistakes, but for a person to see this degree of pain inflicted on their spouse and then (like most here) doing it again speaks to a fuckedupness that has no boundaries. They hold us, our feelings, our commitment, our children in zero regard. They prefer their genitals and imaginations to be tickled over any degree of decency that are considered to have.

    I am not Mormon, but I dont think it is easy for the betrayed spouse in these situations, their RIC is central to their faith and betrayed spouses might be very strongly pressured to submit to it, regardless of the degree of abuse they have suffered. I hope Im wrong but I fear Im not.

    • Like most Christian faiths, Mormons don’t like divorce. That being said their leaders have stipulated that in cases of adultery, abuse, and addiction divorce may be necessary. Abuse of any kind is never condoned and like CL I believe adultery should be thought of as abuse.

  • I know this is an old culumn, but I will add that just about anything a chump asks for will be met with disdain and tantrums, no matter how fair and reasonable it may be, so you might as well aim high. My ex whined that I was being demanding and greedy for asking that we both carry life insurance sufficient to cover the equivalent remaining child support until our son is an adult. Despite the fact that I, too, would have to pay for this, he considered it a “financial demand” on him. (Wah wah boo fucking hoo.) The rest of the items that he considered unreasonable financial demands included child support, repayment of back child support, 50% of our son’s health care costs, and college expenses. The only other thing I asked for (and didn’t get) was compensation for 50% of the sick leave I have to use for caring for our son when ill and taking him to appointments. But oh, I’m SO UNREASONABLE because I refuse to pay his travel expenses for him to visit our son, even though he’s the one who did the leaving. Oh. Hell. No. They are all batshit crazy. Don’t allow them any leverage, because they will take advantage of it not for the sake of fairness, but to accommodate their own desires.

  • Yes.

    He might have been fucking my wife. Are y’all from Orange County?

    Don’t wait for your husband’s second coming. Divorce first – wreckoncile later.

  • After reading CL and CN advice to lawyer up for 7 months ? I finally did so and filed. I must be getting closer to meh because I no longer care what he thinks or what names he calls me. I have 4 kids and was a SAHM for a decade and gave up a very lucrative career to care full-time for my family. Despite returning to work 5 years ago I have 1/6th of his earnings and work many more hours. While he abandoned I did 100% of parenting. So, fuck his cheater pants. I’m going for 65% and spousal support for 8 years. What he took from me and the kids cannot be repaid with money so why should we also be impoverished by his evil choices?

  • Even though this is an old column, I’m sure there is someone reading this needing this advice…I refused mediation and got the pitbull lawyer. Best decision ever made. Cause at the end of the day, anything short of you laying down and allowing them to roll over you will be met with anger on their end. Go for the gold, especially when there are kids involved as raising them isn’t cheap.

    My ex began wining that the most important thing in the divorce proceedings were the kids but yet 3 days after Father’s Day his lawyer publicly asked the judge “Does my client have to pay college for his kids”. That should not have been a question considered, far less asked if the kids are so important.

    In my case, I was the breadwinner and it actually saved me money even though I spent 25k in legal fees.

  • Chumps should ALWAYS be the ones to file, IMHO. It puts you in the driver’s seat with regard to negotiations, and is psychologically empowering. Who wants to be both cheated on AND then legally rejected? Hell, no. One of the biggest indications that a chump is setting healthy limits is by filing and thereby publicly proclaiming, “I will not be treated thusly.”

      • I wish I could have been there, too, when he was served AT WORK! I wasn’t about to let him be served at home, so where else was there? Maybe at Tim Horton’s while he was out with Whore-ton Coffee Snatch or at the bar they went out for drinks until almost 1:30am? Or at one of his “healthy female friends” homes or workplaces? Ha! I’m sure all his ho-workers were thinking, poor Jeffrey Dahmer. His wife is such a meanie. He’s such a nice guy. Why would anyone do something so horrible to such a nice guy. I’m sure the ho-workers would be singing a different tune if they walked in my shoes for the last 25 years.

        • Yes, I’m amazed at how they can twist things around to come off as the nice guy and victim. My ex keeps telling me “people all know what you did to me”. He also keeps demanding I respect him. I guess sleeping with prostitutes, co-workers, lying and belittling me is his idea of respect. I was just supposed to roll over and let him control the divorce process as well.

          • Lol!! ? These people are a riot!he sounds like a punk. I teach and I see this behavior in children. They deny when caught red handed . Plead innocence in face of facts to the contrary and will shed tears if you insist that they have been caught in their lie.

            • Yep! That’s because they ARE children! Entitled, bratty children stuck in adult bodies. Deny, deny, deny until……caught! And then when they get caught…..twist it around and blame the spouse for their lying and cheating. I work in a school too and rarely will anyone own up to what they do. They are always pointing the finger at someone else — they made me do it, they did it too, it’s not my fault, I didn’t do it. Same story we heard from our cheaters, but unfortunately they are supposed to be adults and they don’t do adulting very well when it comes to speaking the truth and being faithful.

          • Well, my ex was so nice and told all his ho-workers that I was crazy. He failed to tell them what drove me “crazy.” I can only imagine the story he spun to make himself the victim. He’s a master story teller, con artist and liar; I wouldn’t be a bit surprised that he’s been talking to his ho-workers for years about me. He’s the victim in this, ya know. If she hasn’t done it already, I’m waiting for Chump Lady to do a post about our exes Sad Sausage stories. I have some doozies. This monster never had any empathy for me. Even the birth of our two children were all about him and how tired the sad sausage was, because he had to stay up all night (not really, but that’s how he remembers it.) He downplayed any of my pain and told everyone I had “mild discomfort.” But he played the “poor daddy” who didn’t get any sleep. Even his mommy was all “oh, poor baby. you look so tired, Jeffrey Dahmer.” God forbid they’d ever pay any attention to the person who actually was in pain and pushed a baby out of her private part. Nope! It was all about the narcissist and attention to him. So, anyway…….this sad sausage stuff played out after D-Day. He was the one who did all the shitty stuff, but he was the sad sausage. Creep!

    • I was thinking this, as well, Tempest. In particular, I was remembering the many psychological studies (some of which were quite cruel and/or based on very unpleasant circumstances) that prove that the person who exerts some action on their own behalf will almost always end up healing more quickly psychologically than those who are passive. That goes all the way back to Hein’s kitten experiment, which I will try to link here, and even rape victims who fight back versus those who do not: effort equates with a feeling of empowerment (and probably other stuff — this is your wheelhouse, not mine) instead of being continuously passively shat upon.

      I filed and it was one of the earliest and most important self-boosts I had during that dark time after Dday: You don’t love me? You love someone else? Well, then, FUCK you & get out! — Did I ever look back and think maybe I was too hasty? Yes, my wimpy little heart had it’s second thoughts, but my more powerful brain said, “No, you deserve better than this.” We all do.

        • It occurs to me that Fierce Mommy did take a massively proactive approach (sought evidence, kicked out, got counselling, confronted, sought legal advice). She was the self-moving kitten. So, she will most likely get her perception restored.

          Would be interesting to know how things went. Any word on that, CL?

          Reminder to all Chumps ~~ keep moving forward! Our only hope lies with this fundamental approach. Paralysis for a time, yes. And, No Contact. Then, as one esteemed member says, Forge On asap.

  • “I don’t want to be the money-hungry bitch ex wife, but we had a very comfortable life and he chose other women over his wife and kids.”

    Are you sure you had a comfortable life? Sounds like he was cheating on you for a long while, and was using you for cake. He liked the appearance of a normal family, while he had his side dishes. You may have had material comfort, but I’m not sure you had any form of emotional comfort, any trust, or mental respite. You have 5 kids under the age of 9, and this guy is porking other women. I don’t know how a man could create 5 innocent children and then screw over the mother of his children and the family unit; that makes him evil son of a bitch. If you don’t get out, he’ll keep cheating and will leave you high and dry with 5 kids to support on your own.

  • We make huge life mistakes because we are more concerned with “impression management” than with putting ourselves in a position to secure the future for ourselves and our families. The words “money hungry bitch” imply that the point of child support, spousal support when needed, and a fair divorce settlement is all about one person taking financial advantage of another. And sometimes that is no doubt true–when either party wants it all, or the bulk of what’s available, or hides assets that are in fact the property of both.

    But child support, spousal support, and settlement–when done in a divorce in which neither party is trying for “scorched earth”–follows predictable patterns and formulas. So if two non-disordered people divorce, they are usually fighting on the margins of those formulas. Is it joint legal custody? If custody is shared 50/50, does the higher earning partner want his or her kids to live better all the time, and so contributes some child support? Does the wage earning partner recognize that the SAHP needs time to retool for the job market? All of those are things that healthy people who once loved someone else enough to marry and who love their kids will consider. For example, I was very careful in negotiating the financial settlement with XH the substance abuser because he is retired and does not have the opportunity for financial recovery that I do. So every point in the negotiations, I let him have first choice among the options because I have time and a career that allows me to more or less fully recover from the divorce. No need to burn things to the ground and salt the earth.

    Asking for and expecting a fair division of marital assets is not “money hungry.” It’s expecting a fair settlement. Asking for and expecting enough child support to raise kids above the poverty level, to keep a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs and provide medicine when need is not being “money hungry.” To expect a share of a pension after spending 15, 20, 25, 30 years in a marriage is not “money hungry.”

    To give into the fear of appearing “money hungry” is to allow impression management–trying to control what other people think of us–to be more important than securing what our family needs during and after the divorce, especially since kids usually spend time in both new domiciles. (Not calling a cheater pad a “Home”.)

    • This is great, LAJ. Sometimes in the midst of all the emotion, we lose track of the logic. It’s good to keep your head, if possible. And logic dictates fair is fair, not “money-hungry.”

    • Nicely put, LaJ, as usual. My comment is limited to the issue of Approval.

      Many of us have spent ungodly hours attempting to garner approval from someone who is just generally disapproving. Happily we, on rare occasions and rather inexplicably, get unconditional approval when we LEAST deserve it.

      Your last paragraph speaks to this and reminds me that what others think of me (as long as I am not intentionally trying to upset them) has more to do with them than me. Their opinion of me is, therefore, none of my business.

      • Were you levitating when you typed those paragraphs, Virago? Because you’re so meh right now I can’t even begin vibrate on your frequency.

        • Yup! And the elevation makes it easier to spot Karma Express No.4.
          (‘Sully’ taught me the importance of watching for geese.)
          Happy Thursday, Ian!

  • I also complained to my family about how much I was paying for lawyer fees. My mom kept telling me to “keep your eye on the prize.” My ex complained about everything and fought his lawyer on issues that were pretty standard (ie: child support). It got to the point that even his own lawyer wanted to fire him. He ended up forking over a large lump sum spousal support payment. He is all about his money so a little bit of karma happened. Win for me 🙂 He just sent me an email the other day whining that I took everything. Maybe he should have kept his pecker in his pants and been a better husband and father.

  • Who knows what happened to this woman….but absorb how pathetic this is:

    ” I don’t want to be the money-hungry bitch ex wife….”

    Why? That is what makes us chumps.

    This man had you hopping over fences, chasing him down thrown the mud like GI Jane because he is FUCKING OTHER WOMEN, and you are worried about coming off as a bitch?

    If there was every a time to be a hiding riding bitch…when a dickhead leaves you with five children under 10 to raise alone, because he wants to fuck whores, play golf and leave you to the wolves….it would be THEN. What are you supposed to take care of your children with…monopoly money?

    I am so glad to read this, because it reinforces the absolute insanity of showing these mother fuckers a droplet of mercy.

    *Show them no mercy, for you shall receive none.*

    • *high riding bitch!

      Not my words…Stephen King, from Dolores Claiborne.

      Who by the way…have you ever noticed…there has never been a hint, a whisper or the faintest murmur that he has ever cheated in his long marriage.

      How beautiful.

      • I read an interview somewhere where he is quoted as saying (paraphrasing perhaps) “we are both, at our core, monogamists” and that tuck with me because when I was suddenly single and could have done pretty much whatever I wanted, I also gravitated to monogamy.

  • Hi all,
    I’m new to posting here. I want to tell my story. Gawd, I’m dying to tell my story. I have been reading CL for a few months. I caught my husband of two months cheating on me. I did a little digging into his background post marriage and discovered he was a “sex addict.” This was after my last two husbands were caught cheating on me. This guy….this guy…was different I thought. The love bombing began and he was the nicest guy I thought I had ever met. He was supportive, generous, seemed to be soooo into me, showed me off to his friends right away, proposed after 6 months. I had this nagging feeling though. One day, he was texting someone at 9pm and then swiped to delete the text. I asked him who he was texting and he said a coworker. The next morning a voice said to check his phone. I kid you not, a voice, I never snooped on him up until that point. he went into the shower, I ran for his phone before the lock went on (passcode lock). I found naked pictures of woman. I confronted him and the lies started to unfold. I spoke to 6 other woman he had led on before he met me, they confirmed he was seeing them all at the same time (a year before I met him). He says he is a sex and love addict (don’t forget love, that softens it right?)

    One more bit of info. I caught him sexting two other women. I did not catch him physically cheating. It’s cheating nonetheless. I get it.

    Also, a month before I caught the sexting, he was in vegas on a business trip. Before I knew about the sexting and sex addict past. I felt sick to my stomach when he was on the business trip. I cannot prove he did anything but I felt sick. He lied about going to see a vegas show though, he admitted that.

    Help. Need advice. He says this is the past and he won’t do this again. I know what I need to do but it is hard. He is the best love bomber in the world. Handsome, charming, helpful…

    • Get checked for STD’s and get a lawyer like yesterday. Only two months you may not own property together or share financial accounts, so then just file already and be done. He’s a con, the “business trips” are more than likely totally bogus. You may want to even verify his employment.

    • He will do it again. And again. And again.

      He only confessed because you caught him. If there was any hopeful moment, it was when you asked him about the text he deleted and he said nothing. Right then, had he broken down and confessed to his “sex addiction” (there is much dispute of that “diagnosis,” BTW, here at CN) and asked to get help, etc. But, no. He denied. And then you snuck around and found evidence. (BTDT) — Let’s stop for a minute: You SNUCK AROUND. Is that really the sort of marriage you want to have from now on? I don’t care how handsome, charming, whatever he is — that’s not marriage, IMHO.

      And why didn’t he confess to his “sex addiction” before your relationship: “Look, I have a problem, you should know, and we can work through it together. I’m in counseling [he’s not, right?, he’s not in counseling for his “problem”?]” — I told XH about my depression within the first three dates. You admit to shit like that if you’re going to commit to someone. He’d tell you if he had cancer, right? If it’s an illness, then he should be seeking treatment, not using it as an excuse to hide his bad behavior behind.

      He will do it again and again and again. I’m sorry, but based on what you’re telling me, he lacks all accountability and you should get out of this relationship before you waste more of your valuable life policing your marriage, to almost certain nil effect.

      There’s lots of valuable info on this site. Look around at the archives, and read the comments. You’ll see that many of us have been in your shoes and the relationship was not saveable. Your relationship has none of the hallmarks of any that have been able to be saved.

      • Thank you NWBiblio. I have been reading Chump Lady religiously since DD. I don’t believe there is such a thing as ‘sex addiction’, IMHO I think it’s an excuse. I do know what I need to do. I didn’t think it would be this hard to let go. My last two husbands cheated (but not to this level if that makes sense). I am embarrassed I fell for his lies and disregarded my instincts. I’m a smart cookie in every other faucet of my life, I own a solid business and I’m highly intuitive and street smart. I’m not saying I’m a rocket scientist or a mensa card member, but I’m not naive or needy.

        The sexting partner I caught him with showed me a naked picture he sent her. It was taken on our honeymoon. I must have been in the shower. OMG, what is wrong with me!!! I should have kicked him to the curb in April when I found out.

        • Applespaghetti, I agree with NW and KB… You’ve been cheated on already, you know where that shitty behavior leads. I know we hate to admit we were duped *again*, but it’s happened to all of us. They don’t CARE if you’ve been cheated on before and it was a deal breaker because every guy I’ve told about the previous cheating BF cheated on me anyway! Get your lawyer, get STD checked and get out of that man-child’s way and let him send/receive all the naked pics his cold, evil heart desires. I bet he’s not so handsome and caring now that you see him for what he really is… a snake in the grass, slithering around, hoping you’ll never find out any of his dirty secrets. THANK GOD you found out now. And don’t blame yourself… he’s the liar and the cheater. His motto is “What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her”. Well now you know and I bet it hurts. Don’t listen to one more minute of his BS sob stories and GTFO. or kick his ass out! Either way, you deserve to be treated with respect and not some sucker he takes you for. He’s got a lot of nerve and I suggest you tell him so…

            • Good for you! I did this too. I know exactly what you’re feeling. You will be okay and get through this.

            • Awesome! So proud of you! You did the right thing. If you are only a few months in and he is doing this now then imagine what he will be doing in five years? In twenty? You deserve better. Sending lots of love and suppport .

        • Of course it’s hard. Don’t discount that — this is like a death. A death of your hopes and dreams for this relationship, a death of trust, a death of the man you thought he was.

          This is not an easy road to travel. But it’s a BETTER road. Try not to let the pain discouraging you from going on.

          FWIW, I think a lot of us chumps are high-performers in other aspects of our lives. I think that’s part of the allure in both sides of the relationship (I’ll just speak for myself here): XH got someone who took care of EVERYTHING capably, and I got what I thought was a safe haven with someone who really knew me & cared about me & I could be myself and be able to be a little bit weak or human sometimes. So the loss is also a symbolic loss.

          And don’t kick yourself for being street-smart about everything but your marriage. I once said, after XH bought himself yet another “toy” (skis or a bike or something, I don’t recall), “As long as he confines his need for new things to anything that doesn’t have to do with ‘wives’ or ‘women,’ I’m okay with that.” I was joking, or so I thought.

          It’s been two years for me, but I’m finally comfortable with the realization that I love wholeheartedly (and plan to do so again) and trust and give. That’s who I am. — And, y’know, there’s someone better out there who deserves that from us chumps, even if it’s just ourselves.

          I’m sorry your STBX turned out to be such a weak cowardly asshole. You, OTOH, are a strong get-things-done kinda gal. So steel up your courage and go get this done. You deserve better.

          • OMG, I needed to hear that. I went to counseling alone and with him. But the counselors are licensed sex addict counselors, so the spin has always been “he is sick and needs to go to 12-step meetings and work the program.” I don’t know. I think the sex addict 12-step thing is weird. Like he has to have a sponsor to lean on in order to keep his junk in his pants. I’m all for self improvement, especially if one suffers from an addiction.

            I feel like I need support from others who have experienced this exact same thing.

            THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU. I needed good advice and a clear perspective.

            • Sorry, forgot to add that my dday was two months into my marriage and I stuck around for another year before I could get myself to file. I wish I had done it right away as he lied, used and abused me that entire year it was torture.

            • Even if I could be convinced that “sex addiction” is indeed a medical condition (it’s not), the assertion that a 12-step program could in any way treat the condition or even alleviate the symptoms is laughable and likely malpractice.

              As a 12-step survivor I can tell you that sexual predators are the norm at those meetings, and you wanna watch your wallet and your genitals when you mix it up with those freaks!

        • Applespaghetti, you sound like a trauma bonder, like me. There is a great book called The Betrayal Bond, which helps to explain why otherwise perfectly sane and smart women end up in these situations. It might help.

          DON’T TAKE HIM BACK.

          • Lola, thank you for the info. I will download the book on kindle tonight. I kicked him out 3X before but ended up taking him back. I know I have issues with co-dependency and low self esteem. I am listening to The Beatles now. For some reason The Beatles songs help me, therapeutic listening to Abbey Road. I can do this. I can.

            • Yes you can do this! Come here as often as possible. I needed trusted people close to me to slap me upside the head when I talked of reconciling. I said, please give me a one or two sentence reality check please! Diseased dicpic, a meme joke, whatever! You need lots of support from people you can trust to give it to you straight so that you can get out of the clutches… Stay STRONG

        • I hope to God you have a prenup, if you don’t you better go for a post nup, protect your assets and run, do it now before you have kids and other commitments

    • My advice to you is to RUN. My sexting husband had multiple affairs before and after the marriage. If he is willing to sext other women he has no respect for you. Do you want to be in a marriage where the man does not respect you? Ask yourself would you do this to him? No. You don’t want to play marriage police like I did. They just get better at hiding and you lose precious days of your life on a cheater. He isn’t a love or sex addict, he is an entitled ass. I used the sex addict excuse to get over his affair before we married. Stupid me. He cheats because he wants to cheat. There is no cure. You don’t want to live your life wondering who he is screwing while you wait around at home for him to “love” you again.

    • I don’t think you need advice…you already know what you’re dealing with and what you need to do. What you probably DO need is support and reinforcement that your instincts and decisions are right. They are. The best thing I got out of my experience was trusting my instincts and believing in my own opinion when it comes to personal relationships.

      To use an old analogy, you’re already up shit creek no matter what happens going forward. Counseling is just a snorkel; you might see the shit more clearly, but you’re still stuck in it. Divorce is your paddle to get OUT.

    • Sorry for your pain, but cut with a big sharp knife and run like your hair is on fire.

      I am with CN on the “there is no such thing as sex addiction” they are just assholes who love their dicks

      “love addiction” sounds like a person who loves that initial thrill but has no maturity to live a real relationship.

      advise stands…cut and run (like your very life depends on it)

    • “Help. Need advice. He says this is the past and he won’t do this again. I know what I need to do but it is hard. He is the best love bomber in the world. Handsome, charming, helpful…”

      I hate it when people term it “love bombing”. It’s not Love, it’s more like blowtorching. This guy has no love for you. If he loved you, he would be treating you with love. Instead, he is treating you like garbage. He is sexing other women, lying to you about business trips like Vegas, and who knows what else he’s lying to you about. And it’s only been 2 months you’re married and he has a harem of women? I mean really. Where does he find the time and energy to have sex with all these other women.

      And I don’t believe these cheaters have sex addiction. They have no conscience and no empathy and no remorse. It’s very different, because an addict can’t control themselves, this guy knows exactly what he’s doing, because he’s hiding the evidence and lying to you. It’s all deliberate. And if you tolerate it, in his head, you are giving him the green light to ramp up the abuse. Prepare to be extremely abused and tortured with abuse. It won’t be pretty, you’re in hell.

    • I’m so sorry you have to go through this Applespaghetti. I would like to add to all of these great replies that I believe there is a great difference between love and kibbles/lust/desire/sex/whatever the hell else they like to call it. Love does not behave this way – ever. His words do not match his actions so he is lying.
      Take care of yourself.

      • That is so mighty! I hope you are okay. It is hard decision, but the 110% right decision.

        Don’t focus any good memories you have. That is not helpful (if you have any). It is a mind trick.

        Stay focused on his horrible behavior. If you start to feel weak, go back and read articles and posts on this site. You can also log into the forums, you can start a thread and people are so helpful and kind.

        You should go into HardCore No Contact now. This is the only way for his poison gas to clear your brain.

        I live alone, but I hope you have a close friend or a family member that you can lean on. I have come close to losing my mind at times…but I am *so glad* I have not given in….don’t give in to grief and mistake it as “you should be together”. It is a mind trick. You just have to go through the grief, much like a death.

        Maybe you can get an much easier than a divorce.

        He may try to hoover….draw you back in….you can’t let him. There is an article on here (I think) about hovering. Or you can google…Why do Narcisstics Hoover. Do not let it bother you if he does not, at first. Some play the silent treatment game or discard you. But, getting him out of your life is like getting Ebola out of your life.

        Check back in and let us know how you are. A woman of action! YOU should be very proud because what you did is brave.


        You have made the absolute best decision.?
        Because you deserve to be with someone who you can trust.

        • OMG I can’t thank you enough. I feel like I don’t have anyone to talk to about this because my friends and family have never been through it. They also love him, he is good snowing everyone. I have Chump Nation for now.

      • If you can, change your cell number tonight. You can change it on the Internet (usually).

        The key is to NOT start trying to analyze it with him. It is like dissecting a bucket of slop. It cannot be fixed. He could try to spin some cobweb of lies. It is so traumatic to be cheated on and lied to, we cling to anything they throw out.

        If there is anyway you can (I don’t know your commitments) but if you could take off for a week or even 3 days to clear your mind….that would be optimal.

        You can do this. If I can do it, YOU can do it!!!
        ? =No Contact.

        • I run my own business. I can’t take off too much time but an afternoon here and there is all I can do. I have a mortgage (my house before I met him, bought it with my own money). I also have 10 rescue animals (cats and dogs) to care for. Money will be tight but I have no choice but to do this.

          • Yes, I had four dogs but I just had to put one to sleep. (Too sad to analyze)

            Well, your pets are fantastic. They will give you comfort. Money will work out. If you go back and read so many posts, so many chumps talk about once they got rid of their cheater…..they had MORE money because these fools wasted so much of it. There are so many ways to save money…maybe we could start a thread in the forums about ways to live lean.

            If someone has not been cheated on, they cannot understand the need to take about it so much. They will grow weary of us, sort of beating something in the ground. But, it is part of the process.

            There are very few things I am sure of in this world, but I am certain that leaving a cheater is the only way to have a good life.

            Your friends and family loving him? Tell them the truth, raw, ugly and wriggling. I am a big believer in just telling it all. Life is hard enough without having to keep stories straight.

            How are you feeling? Are his belongings still there? Take a breath and stay calm.
            It will all be okay.

      • Howdy, Applespaghetti.

        So sorry you are going through this. The Beatles got me through everything. They are a good starting place.

        Read this article on getting a lawyer.

        I don’t recommend unloading on people who might have the ability to influence divorce proceedings or your income or possible settlement. If I understand correctly you share no children with this guy so you don’t have any reason to ever talk to him again.

        This is going to hurt, a lot. For a while. If you go to the forums and start a post that is where a lot of international chumps hang out.

        You got this!

        • Hello Ian,

          You are correct. We don’t have children. We were married in Feb of this year. I owned my home before I met him. He recently quit his job though. I have a small business, nothing huge or super profitable but it pays the mortgage. He was giving me money for half the bills. He has a lot more money than I do. I don’t want anything from him.

          • Apple,
            Here is a link on You Tube that is a guided meditation on healing from a bad relationship:


            I find they help so much at night if your mind starts to race or you start to second guess your correct and wise decision.

            And…if you can look past the afros and glitter, (and we have the same taste if you love the Beatles) listen to EVERY WORD of this song, and I promise you…it will help you. It has got me through so many nights.


  • Applespaghetti,

    You have been married 8 weeks.

    He has photos of naked women on his phone. He is sexting and the ink has barely dried on your marriage license.

    Get an annulment.

    • Sylvia is right, maybe you can get an annulment. Did you take marriage vows? He never meant them. I am sorry but everything he told you was a lie. You were real, he wasn’t, he’s a fraud. I am so sorry this must hurt so much when you normally wouldn’t even be out of the honeymoon phase, but at least you found out early in the marriage. Don’t let him waste any more of your time.

  • After I found evidence of affairs (escorts and a co-worker), my ex denied everything. I drove myself crazy searching through his home office, wallet, luggage, car etc. I phoned him non-stop when he was away to check up on him. I spent evenings looking at escort sites to see if he had posted anything. I put an app on his phone to track his whereabouts. I drilled him with questions every time he was late from work. Now I look back and I wish I had left sooner. Without trust, a marriage is doomed.

    • Yes. And it is catastrophically demeaning to have to play Detective with someone who is willfully making you insane.

      I am afraid I am becoming:
      a) bitter
      b) jaded
      c) schooled in the University of Chumpdom

      because I don’t even spot any issues to analyze.

      It is a deal breaker. You are trying to make trash into treasure. It is doomed.

      Applesphagetti- I do not mean to sound insensitive. I am sorry you are in pain.

      But 8 weeks in……Girl strap on your Nikes and run as fast as your little legs will carry you away from this abomination that would shit on your marriage vows while you are still basically on your honeymoon.

      • I know. You aren’t being insensitive. I don’t need kid gloves, I need hard core advice.
        This from NWBiblio:
        XH got someone who took care of EVERYTHING capably, and I got what I thought was a safe haven with someone who really knew me & cared about me & I could be myself and be able to be a little it weak or human sometimes. So the loss is also a symbolic loss.

        THAT IS IT FOR ME TOO!! It’s a symbolic loss. I was always the go getter in my relationships. This guy was taking the reigns and I felt cared for and able to let someone else drive for a while. I thanked him everyday for his kindness and told him I was so grateful for him. I think that is what hurts the most. I THANKED him for loving me. I thanked God for finally allowing me to feel loved and secure. My previous husband was a bad boy and I knew it, for some reason that hurt less. This assclown has the world convinced he is sweet, loving, a good man, peaceful, etc.

        By the way, he had up to 6 woman he was dating at the same time (before I met him) while he lived with a woman. Yes, this was in the past and before I met him, but nonetheless, how does a movie studio executive and father have time to do his job, live with a woman and have 5 other woman that think they are the only ones. How does that happen??

    • I never felt as horrible as the night I snuck my husband’s journal from his brief case and took it to the bathroom to read. After trying to trust him for 36 years, it just felt so wrong to invade his privacy.

      Reading what he wrote in that journal was the best/worst moment of my life. His words confirmed everything I’d suspected and reassured me that I wasn’t crazy.

      It was in that moment I realized “The truth will set you free” was coined by someone who truly understood what it’s like to live with lies.

      • “The truth shall set you free” is truly the best quote, Lyn. I prefer light to being in the dark anyday… How about that body numbing, heart-pounding, rageful, devastating feeling you get when the shock and anger hits… It’s almost paralyzing, besides being horrifying…

        • Peaky, I remember that night as well, “body numbing, heart-pounding, rageful, devastating feeling,.” I wanted to find something to stop the insanity, yet, I didn’t want to find anything-to stay in my illusion of a long term relationship. What I did find could have easily been explained away. I listened to my gut, stood firm and kept drilling away until he spoke the truth. Yes, “the truth shall set you free!”

    • Yes, the old detective hat. I pride myself on not being a labeled a chump. I thought I would be soooo smart if I caught him again. I bought:

      Car tracking apparatus (in real time – stuck it on the chasis under his car)
      Software for his computer that tracked his keystrokes and took screen grabs
      Tried to install something on his phone to track texts, etc. (wasn’t successful getting it to work)
      a pen camera in the house when I was away on a business trip
      Recording device
      Pulled data from his computer (he didn’t know that if you delete something it ends up in the trash folder and it’s easy to get)
      Hmmmm, I think I’m missing something but you get the picture. I feel like I can be a PI, in fact, I feel like I can train PIs.

  • Sorry to say this, but I must. I am a lawyer, practicing more than 30 years, but not in the field of marital or family law. I belong to a divorce group that meets once a month and discusses practical issues. Most of the women in the group have had (as I did) cheating husbands who didn’t meet up to their financial responsibilities. In my case, my husband had a cash business and I got NOTHING in the divorce. I got all of the joint debt, no maintenance and no money to keep the roof over my head after he ran out in the night and saddled with all of his debts (which were also in my name). I had proof of how much money the business was really making with copies of bank statements, receipts, marketing info to show how well the business was doing. My lawyer advised me to get him to sign an agreement and be done with it. He said that men like my husband just “spiraled down” and I would spend thousands of dollars to get nothing. I agreed and I am divorced nine months after filing and rebuilding my life. I got all the debt but I also got the house and my 401k. The other women in my group weren’t so lucky. Many of them went to mediation, which their cheating, lying crappy husbands pushed them to do. When the smoke cleared, many of them, actually most of them, had really shitty deals because: (1) the mediators left out hugely important things from the agreements; (2) ever compliant, the wives didn’t want to ‘upset’ their angry husbands, so they agreed to less than they would have gotten in order to avoid conflicts, or maybe in hopes of reconciliation. The point is- mediation should only be between two people who do not have trust issues. In our case(s), where the ex is cheating and lying and feathering his nest for a new life with other women, the only thing these men understand is the cold hard face of a bulldog lawyer. My husband wanted my engagement ring, among other things! He had promised schmoopie he’d get me to sell the house and get half the money! He promised her my 401k! Guess what? He gave nothing but he got nothing. Don’t do mediation.

    • Another point against initial mediation: if you haven’t filed, had the other party served, and had your first court hearing, marital property continues and joint assets are not protected. At least that is how it works in my state. I didn’t want him to get his greedy hands on any more of my money, so I pushed it through. Then the court ordered mediation because it is required in my state.

    • I would also add this: The time between Dday & the divorce hearing was 47 days for me & XH. We have no kids so could do a dissolution rather than divorce. And part of the reason I requested an expedited hearing was to protect my assets. XH was still doing the “poor sausage” act, so I thought I’d take advantage of his guilt and rush the case. I knew if it went to attorneys, I would lose big, because I’m a doctor and on paper it looks like he has nothing but debt.

      I’m so glad I did. Because, sure enough, the day before our hearing — the day BEFORE — he called me and said he was having “second thoughts” about the money thing. He said his family (presumably including AP) was urging him not to “be foolish” and let his guilt deprive him of … blah blah blah. I’d stopped listening because I was busy having a panic attack — I went to Urgent Care, my blood pressure was 170ish. Not good. — I asked him, point blank, “Is this going to cause you to contest our hearing tomorrow?” His reply, “Of course not, what kind of a person do you think I am?” — !!! did he really just ask me that??? — so I agreed to half of what I’d proposed back when I was stupid, just to shut him up. — The hearing went through. I wrote him a check and that was the end of it.

      I SHUDDER to think what he might have ended up with had we kept our original hearing date, which was six months later.

      Don’t delay. Get as much ammo as you need to move forward and go on the attack. This is your livelihood, protect it.

      • Now that’s what I’m talking about, I’m sooo with you nbiblio, I keep telling my sister to file for divorce and protect her assets, and she keeps putting it off , I’m scared her POS husband will surface again and come after her, he took a lot of her documents when he was leaving, she has like 7 properties that she bust her tail for

  • People who supposedly have “Mormon family values” have just as many cheaters hiding in their ranks as the rest of the world. Magic underwear, indeed.

    I am a burned-by-Mormon-Cheater chump, and I know this first hand. As a “Godless” heathan I have more morals and family values in my little finger than he had in his whole self. He used his religion to play a role. And then he was off getting all the sweet young pussy he could find wearing his “sacred” underpants.

    Giant piece of shit.

    • FarBetterOff and Ian,

      MoFaux was ‘spiritual’. Liked to talk about spiritual matters with all the pussy ~~ oops! I mean folks-who-were-female-and-oh-so-enamoured-with-shiny-MoFaux. Not so interested in chatting with any men.

      Is there a 12 Step for that problem?

      Hell is where all my friends will be. Save me a seat.

      • LOL I used to work in a heavily populated by Mormons areas and had never had so many married with 9 kids guys come on to me. I always thought it was just part of the religion.

  • FBO, oh so the same situation! My cheater was a Melchizedek Priest in the Mormon church. But of course, not practicing! We were together 27 yrs married 25, not wed in Mormon church. However my children and I would attend years ago and then on occasion.
    Introduced to church by him and now deceased (MIL). MIL member and taught at church, Sunday school for years! Taught my children too!
    The little cheating ladder day saint, (fraud)!
    We would have the missionaries stop by, and have them for dinner on occasion.
    Well after DD and exhole gone and living with his newly found adulterous world with his 30 yr younger co worker, the missionaries stop by my house in the neighnorhood! Asking is Brother …. Home? Because as those familiar with Mormon Church know, they do not come into your home unless an adult Male is present! Anyway, my son was home, so I said no Brother (cheater, heathen, judas) not home but son is, come on in.
    They were kind, as usual. So I came right out and said Brothet (cheater) does not live here anylonger he is residing, gave them his address,his phone number, 666 lol and said you might be sble to help him and his (kept) young concubine. He is starting a new family and we are in process of divorce.
    You see Brother …. Is an adulterer, perhaps you might want to stop by and offer a prayer for them. I think they will need it!
    Hey I still sat with them , a bit in shock from news, and had a water and prayer offering with them.
    Wonder if the word got to the Bishop of the church by the missionaries reporting to bisiting teachers etc and the Excommunication letter was sent to grandfather daddy!
    Oh well, guess he wont be baptizing their newborn they just had in that faith!
    Oh well, lost yet another family.

  • Thank you for sharing, Fierce Mommy. The challenges you’re facing – and will continue to face – are huge. Hold on to what is good and focus on what brings you peace.

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