Every liberation campaign begins with an act of rebellion. Today’s Friday challenge is to tell Chump Nation about that first moment you un-chumped.
Maybe you’re one of the quick learners and you filed immediately. Most of us, however, did not detonate the nuclear consequence right away. Instead, there were uprisings and skirmishes. Periods of lucidity where you cracked your head through the spackle and said “Fuck. This. Shit.”
What was your “I will not be your chump” awakening? When did you get uppity? How’d it feel?
Mine was pretty dramatic and terrifying. I’d love to tell you it was all cloud partings and rainbows, but it was actually spent crying in a courthouse. Not for a divorce (see “slow learner”) but for a protection of abuse order after he threatened me. (Otherwise known as “Your Situation Goes Beyond Infidelity — Esther Perel).
It was the first time I put the heavy boot of consequences on his neck. He got thrown out of the house. That wasn’t the end, but it was the beginning of the end. I acted like a person who knew her worth.
What’s that song lyric? Free your mind and the rest will follow…
So tell me, Chump Nation, when did you first un-chump?
Ha! When I called HR and reported them for fucking on company time. It was a month long investigation and they interviewed all of their coworkers!
I wish I could have done this…it would have been so much fun!!!
Your post brought me a mental fantasy filled with satisfaction and glee.
Her salary supports them so he can support me, so it wasn’t an option for me.
Congratulations on being able to shine the light on their actions!
Rebecca, same^^. My ex is a firefighter and had sex at the station, at the trauma helicopter hangar, in the training auditorium ( and not with me, btw) but my atty told me to be careful how much of his stuff we put out there because his salary pays my alimony. Would I LOVE to humiliate him that way?? Uhh….hell yes. Unfortunately it’s gonna have to be enough that the girl ( one of them anyway) that he was banging in all those places is now most likely being cheated on.
Please tell me how to report this so HR will listen! She reports to him and he would spend 2 hours in her private office every Friday!
I find sending certified letters to the absolute top dog gets the best results.
I have a male chump friend whose now ex is the head of HR and she cheated on work time with a male co-worker that’s still married. Even HR, which is the moral compass of a company has cheaters.
omg! What is it with HR? My ex cheated with my former friend who is manager of HR in a different co. Her ex is an employee of said Co. How can that not be a conflict of interest? especially since it is a gov dept!Wish I had pics to prove it sat the time but in Canada it only matters in the court of public opinion.
I wish I could do this, but I rely on his income… 🙁
I thought the same thing. They were coworkers and absolutely had their physical relationship start on business trips using company resources. I resisted because the last thing I needed was for ex-douchecanoe to lose his job. Funny enough 6 months after the divorce was final my ex was fired for a bad attitude at work. I don’t know what had happened since when we were together he was getting raises and promotions at work each year and was seen as a rising star in the company. I think people figured out about them and didn’t make life each for him. I had a few acquaintances at my ex’s company so I casually mentioned the affair and I’m pretty sure that fueled the rumor mill and people were not too kind to him. I have no idea how it all went down, but it certainly was nice to know. Thankfully by that time he was already locked into child support but he took him about 6 months to fins a new job.
I wish I could report them to HR but the OW was Vice President of HR ……so yeah.
Should have reported her to the owner and or trustees. I know that if that happened in my company it would have been investigated and terminations would have resulted. Most companies do not want the potential scandal.
My ex had an affair with a company client and his company didn’t give two shits about it. They had an HR talk with him but that’s about it. He got to keep his job and his hoe who he lives with now. So yeah…
I wish I knew at the time that my STBX was fucking his secretary. They were both married with top secret security clearances. My STBX was working on top secret US weapons programs. They were traveling together and fucking at every stop. A lot of shit would have gone done had I turned them in. She is still working for the government. I wonder if there is anything I can do to get her now. Ideas?
It still sounds like you would be putting your income at risk since he was the one in control of that sitch. My latehusband was in charge of government and Susan was in sales for the company trying to sell the govt their wares. They got caught in the affair by her employer and was fired…I bet they really didnt want to but would have been in legal shit if they were caught “providing sex” to govt customers. Odd thing is my thenhusband didnt get in trouble.
The Inspector General of her agency is where to file a conplaint.
You can file an anonymous hotline complaint with the Inspector General
Good one Starr! I can’t claim credit for reporting Asshat and his Howorker. Probably one of his other subordinates did since their relationship was well known.
But I will admit to a good laugh when he told me they both got fired, one right after the other the day after our divorce was final.
Well, that is certainly sweet karma, Sunrise!
Standing ovation to the Karma Express Co.
My hopefully soon to be ex had 2 separate sexual harassment charges filed on him at his previous job and of course they were just trying to get back at him. He changed jobs a year and a half ago and of course had an affair with a married co worker. He is the CFO/COO of a non profit in South Carolina and when I contacted his co workers he filed a restraining order against me and had the nerve to tell me if I filed for divorce stating adultery that I would be hurting the organization and be in violation of my restraining order. What a piece of s_ _ _. We were married for 37 years and I’m not sure how I will ever get the stink of him out of my life.
” he had the nerve to tell me if I filed for divorce stating adultery that I would be hurting the organization and be in violation of my restraining order …”
That’s awful. I’m so sorry. I’d have to see the restraining order, and this is NOT legal advice, which you should get from your lawyer, but I cannot see that POS’s threat being remotely plausible.
I hope your lawyer is advising you to file for divorce on the grounds of adultery. It’s complicated to explain why it should be more than possible.
Is your lawyer a pitbull? You’re going to need it. That said, just hanging in there is an “act of rebellion.” Good for you!
Oh God, Frozen-in-the-Ice Mortification, Turning Dove.
I just lost my supper.
How can you erase that visual – ever?
And, wtf about giving you a lasting ‘gift’.
This should be absolutely criminal.
Cooler than a polar bear’s toenails? You, TurningDove!
That was fucking disgusting.
Oh TurningDove, this is awful.
On the other hand, you are a very talented writer. How could your ex cheat on someone with your ability?
I would consider it a public service if you would post this on Vaginal Lip Spreader’s Facebook page. Even if she never sees this, it’s out there. It’s here. And I, for one, will be laughing at it and her for a long time.
PS I’m your STD-sister. Turns out his sweaty geezer ball sac was covered in genital warts – not just a rash from too tight tighty whities [pre-D-day it never crossed my mind that he would cheat. I lived with that level of cognitive dissonance for years.]
Damn! I need to add this to my list of “things I wished I’d done”
Mine was nothing spectacular at all. I just realized one day that he felt he had choices and he certainly decided to exercise them. So, I finally woke up and realized that I also had choices and I wasn’t going to put up with his and Schmoopies “in your face” adultery anymore! His choice was Schmoopie and his new “cool” life with her, Mine was to file for divorce, get everything and kick his butt to the curb! Win/win! We both got what we wanted! Well…..at least I know I did. Him? Not so much!
I thankfully wasn’t married to my guy, but I had a similar moment. Some friends of mine had been through tough times of their own, and my guy friend said “One day I hit a wall and had to decide what I wanted – the woman I love and my daughter, or something else entirely. Rhys will hit that wall at some point, I promise.”
On the day in question, I cried and sobbed my heart out, but you know, my guy friend was right. Rhys made his choice – so I made mine. Short of me telling him to fuck off when he tried to contact me a few months later, I never spoke to him again. There’s power in saying “This is what it is, and it’s not anything else.”
I think that decision to grab your life away from a jerk WAS spectacular.
You took control of your destiny.
This is empowering to me. I am tired of being sad. I need to recognize my “choices”, as you did.
I too got an order of protection after he left our two children alone in a locked hot car to mess around. Still going through coparenting hell but definitely meh towards him.
Unchumped!
Wow, that is bad! I hope he didn’t get joint custody after that. It doesn’t get more selfish than that.
lostnx, no doubt, it’s SO dangerous. Off thread, but important info: 60° outside, car can still heat up to well above 110 degrees. It only takes a 57-degree outside temperature to cause heatstroke. If 80°, temps inside car can reach deadly peaks in 10 minutes. More on site below. Two shocked me.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/hot-cars-and-kids/death-hot-cars-facts-figures-prevention-n153776
loveydovey, just curious: how did he react before, during, or after court hearing? That kind of entitlement — wow.
Claire,
So pertinent! I had to act the fool last week when I saw a little Yorkie gasping for air in a car.
And thank you deeply for your kind words about my Roxie. You are so well written and I love your vocabulary. You could help me get past this one hard level on Letter Garden. I am obsessed! It also helps fight insane urges to contact a cheating sociopath.
You’re a better woman than I; I have urges to do Serious Bodily Harm to a cheating sociopath. (ABOVE the waist, Chump Guys, above.)
I’d better start playing this Letter Garden game, pronto. (Had to Google it. I am such a dork about tech pop culture.) I’m going to start tonight. It looks fun!
I’m so glad my words reached you about Roxie. I inscribed your sentence into a favorite novel. And thanks for the compliment. Post D-day, I’m full of self-doubt on just about every level … so today’s stories are especially inspiring. And, uh, educational. 😉
Oh…..we are the same. I lull myself to sleep with homicidal ideation about my X and his harem. Especially for the bus stop tramp that answered his phone, would not put him on the phone and called ME crazy. And then hung up on me and turned off his phone. It is his fault she had access to his phone, but gall of these OW.
I love him and I want to beat him within an inch of his life. Cheating ruins everything. He killed us.
I told him: If he had done anything else horrible…anything….I could have worked with it. Shoplifting, insane tattoo, bar fight, gambling losses….but not betraying me sexually and emotionally.
I made him and his new wife (our former au pair) prove to me they don’t have HIV for the kids sake. GET TESTED OR WE FIGHT ABOUT THIS IN COURT. “What me? She couldn’t have given me an STD she is a good person.” GET TESTED. “I have no symptom of any disease, never had.” GET TESTED. “You misspelled a word somewhere in your email. So I just don’t understand what you’re saying. ” GET TESTED. “You get tested” (as though I hadn’t, first thing.) GET TESTED “See you were always like that. So irrational and fearful.” GET TESTED “Fine. But it’s so hard, nobody will give us an appointment.” GET TESTED “I don’t understand. What do you want me to get tested for?” GET TESTED “She’d never sleep around or do something like that.” (I’m laughing so hard, tears are coming out of my eyes at that one.) GET TESTED “Fine.”
Wow, your exes new wife is really bright, hey? 😉 You are MIGHTY ChompingChump! I myself got tested for EVERYTHING just in case. I wasn’t about go into my new life with any STD. Who knows what the fuck he did all those years and he could so easily lie to my face about any subject matter. He could easily have lied about never having any sexual contact with anyone during our marriage. I was done believing him and needed to do what was best for me.
Mine told me that STD testing was “punishing” him.
The whole STD thing could be its own post.
Good God. I thought I was the only one who heard that BS flapping from my cheater’s mouth. Seriously?
Yes please, make it its own post!!
+1
I demanded an STD test immediately for both of us.
Has horribly embarrassed but went to the doctor and got it done.
And, doh me – I forgot to ask him for the results!!
I guess I didn’t care as, at least I was clean and that’s all that mattered cuz his scuzzy mouth would never get close to mine again.
No. First thing you do once you suspect infidelity is RUN, not walk to the nearest place that will do a full panel STD screen. Conversely, that’s how I found out X#1 was cheating on me all those years ago – I started having symptoms I shouldn’t have had. 🙁
Ugh! I just saw two pregnant patients last week (OB/GYN rotation) that found out about spouses cheating because they were diagnosed with an STD. My heart melted. One of them said she couldn’t leave him because she was reliant on his income, the other just said it was a “bad test,” but took the treatment.
Mine was furious the day I went to get my own STD testing, because it was was “stressful” for him.
Mine was pissed I used money from the joint account to get tested.
I paid for testing out of the joint account too, and made sure the transaction memo said “payment for monogamous wife’s STD screening.” That appeared on the bank statements I submitted to the court; small potatoes, but still satisfying.
That doesn’t sound like small potatoes to me. Like many small victories here, it’s potent. It’s potent both in content and symbolic value. (And, of course, as CL notes, fighting back against power and balances and power plays starts with small acts of resistance.) For example:
Joint account and “monogamous wife”: WE have shared a life, I’VE been loyal, and YOU will (partly) foot the bill for endangering me.
Transaction memo as a whole: You don’t get to lie anymore, to betray without consequences. I’m not going to roll over. And the conspiracy of silence/lies is hereby punctured. Publicly.
Don’t care what kind of jurisdiction you’re in, had I been judge or his attorney, I’d have been impressed. Hope you don’t mind if I steal this brilliant little maneuver of yours!
Mine was embarrassed that I had testing done! How could I do that to him!!!! OMG!!!
Oh I found out my ex had given me an STD while sitting in the exam room at the hospital, VERY pregnant, during a routine pregnancy checkup. It was super cool.
another member for the 9th circle of hell.
As I discovered….they take us so low…to places we never believed we would be.
Talk about endangering the life of your child… He’s awful
Oh yes, mine also felt like asking for STD tests was being irrational and vindictive. Because what’s nice and rational is sleeping with prostitutes around the world and giving STDs to your nursing wife, while secretly getting yourself treated for said STDs. Asking for tests is just irrational and vindictive.
there is a special place in hell for him
This one takes the cake! So sorry you were married to that. Hope you are far away from him!
“How dare you make me deal with the consequences of my actions! You’re PUNISHING ME with reality!”
Definitely a whole post on its own. When I told Cheese Fries I’d gotten STD tests, he told me that was bitchy.
Mine agreed immediately to testing, and gave the results without prompting.
Mine told me I didn’t need to get tested because he’d always used a condom. Yeah…I’ll trust that…
My x also said the same. According to him hs AP was clean even though she was married living with her hubby. Hubby was hitting it raw by the way, vomit!
Mine had spill some very hot soup on his wandering dick. It healed up a bit but left read blotches all over where the soup had touched it. He forgot about the soup incident but I didn’t. So one day he comes in with this horrified look in his eyes that his precious wander pecker was diseased. (I knew immediately what it was about) But I ‘freaked’ out and said that Goddamit you have caught something from slunty. (He knew slunty slept around) So I sent him down to the public health department where he had to drop his pants in front of my girl friend, a public health nurse, who alas was too professional to tell him he had ‘dickilessdropoffia’ a form of leprosy… But I have to say I still smile when I think of this.. So I think that was a bit rebellious. Man I am so glad that that dick has dicked off to another location with the same slunty.
Yes. The skanks were all clean. So no condoms.The one living with a man and sleeping with three other managers. The one who was engaged. Yes. They were all clean till STD hit. I mean that would be the first thing on my mind with a new sex partner.
Yes mine told me he always wore a condom. So I asked him, he said ummm no! Then I asked her again. She said well I had talked to him for a few days and he did not have a history of sleeping around and was safe. So you knew the 26 year old for 7 days. He obviously would be up front and honest about himself. So you got drunk with him and had sex. So drunk on that occasion you don’t remember exactly what happened. And that was a great idea. Oh don’t worry since she did not remember well the first time she went back for more. And did I say? she was not on birth control!
Thank God testing came back negative.
David. She put her own health at risk and subsequently, yours as well. She could have the decency to at least not lie about it. Smh. These cheaters just dont care about anything.
I had to go to my gyn, who also happens to be one of my best friends from college and get tested. Imagine the embarrassment. I didn’t ask him to get tested, because he was not touching me again and I frankly did and still don’t care if he gave her something.
STBX is a physician. My doc was a colleague. When I told her what had gone down, she said “wow, what a cruel asshole.” Of course she wouldn’t say anything, privacy laws… But, it felt REALLY good that someone he had professional interaction with knew how awful he was. He always plays the devoted dad/husband at work. And the esteem of his peers is really important to him. Small victory for righteousness.
Mine too
Yes I heard that too. But since my ex was cheating with multiple strippers and wasn’t wearing a full body condom and rinsing his ass kissing (literally) mouth out with germicide, that wasn’t very comforting. I got tested twice and made him test and send me the results. I’ll probably get tested again at some point even though it’s been 4 years since I had sex with him since I’ve read that some STDs can take awhile to be one symptomatic.
What is it with ass and other forms of oral with basically strangers? X was not a kisser with me and boy am I glad. He thinks his mouth is impervious to STDs. Extra stupid!
Dunno. The only time I am licking ass is if my tongue slips on a taint.
How considerate of him Tempest
Mine used a condom and somehow the whoremat ended up pregnant anyway and she “missed a period” only 8 days after they had sex. And it was DEFINITELY my STBX’s. I told my dr about all this when I went to get my STD check and she said the likelihood was like 2% that that could even happen and that it was 100% impossible to miss a period by days after 8 days from conception. But STBX had to believe her. Because the dr wouldn’t know better than some stupid slut would ?
Yup. I also will chime in because the swinging, serial cheating MOW was declared “clean” by my non-condom using cheater. Hence, I have an STD!
Absolutely manslaughter because he KNEW she has herpes because in their true love transparency she told him!!! Weird that I wasn’t informed, not even when I was nursing infants.
The worst day of my life was when my doctor called me with the results of my STD panel. Worst day because there was a possibility that I may have transferred something really really really bad onto my sons unknowingly. Fuckers.
A simple! piece of federal legislation making it a crime to infect your spouse with an STI would go a long way to bringing real consequences to these cheaters.
It is simple. And you would think, that in todays world of HIV and many strains of untreatable STDs, there would be a law. But since we have politicians whom have no morals and would be the first to go to jail…… there is little hope of this becoming a reality.
Agreed, David.
And therein lies the rub. Not only for STI s but other immoral acts. Some bigwig is doing the dirty and consequences would offset the Apple cart.
Totally agree we need law changes in NZ too. My first rebellion came when I told the traitor what he has done to me for years is as bad or worse than using a date rape drug. He drugged me with lies. I didn’t consent to sex with someone who didn’t love me and was fucking his ex behind my back. I didn’t consent to go through six miscarriages with that. I consider it rape. He said I was vitriolic, he was all righteous indignation. I wish I could get him prosecuted.
Just a nod to the fact that we have so many nations represented here in Chump Nation. US, Canada, England, New Zealand, Australia, Germany, Belgium, Ireland, Scotland, Mexico… so many more I am sure I seem rude for leaving one out. But good to know that it’s not just one continent overrun with cheaters.
And yes, kiwi. Until and unless courts start to see adultery as on par with any other sexual violence we won’t know justice. It was tied in with no fault divorces. Previously women couldn’t escape bad husbands because of ancient draconian divorces. Now there is such a lackadasical attitude toward cheating and children get hurt, people get robbed, and there are real consequences going unregulated that in other contexts get real jail time. Alas, that is a ways off. But if we can get gay marriage in eight years in the U.S., there is hope for adultery reform.
Ian – ‘But if we can get gay marriage in eight years in the U.S., there is hope for adultery reform.’
If there is one reason over many others of why I’m still here after this many years (3+), it’s because I see a vision from this site.
More and more people join everyday and I think all of us chumps would like to see more attention paid to problems of no-fault divorce states and alimony paid to cheating spouses. Obviously, this is very wrong and these laws need to be changed in marital court.
Same with providing for very emotionally damaged children in the aftermath.
Not that anybody I know IRL want to hear about the issues I talk about.
Most people I know now don’t want to hear it, and this is why the internet can be so powerful.
Well, C/L doing a Ted Talk would certainly help our underground movement!
We have Zero divorce support groups here and many who need help.
Yes Ian and Shechump, I also hope that with the momentum this site has created there may come public pressure for law changes. One is the return of fault divorce of course. The other would be some form of recognition for the frauds perpetrated in relationships whether married or not, the effects of emotional abuse on partners and entire families etc. A few test cases on the interpretation of existing laws might help too. People have tried to prosecute partners who knew they had HIV and didn’t tell, why not other STIs?
I am always shocked to read the court reports here and see people prosecuted for stealing $50 worth of groceries in a supermarket while the twisted cheaters get away with destroying people around them.
I also want to point out that on this site I have read many posts that showing that CN isn’t a collection of ultra conservative loons. We have same sex chumps and we understand that everyone here who committed honestly deserves honest commitment and respect in our consensual relationships. We are responsible adults expecting to live in a society that fosters responsible adult behaviour because that’s what a society needs from its adult citizens. Common sense! So I am pleased to see same sex marriage mentioned here too. When the campaign to legalise this was in full swing here, I must admit I was ambivalent until I realised how much the option to make this deep commitment meant by seeing the debates bring some couples to tears. I am not proud that it took me so long to get it! But I am glad it clarified for me how much being engaged to my partner meant in a wider context. Shame it turned out I was engaged to a traitor. The law change here has made it clearer that there is a fundamental different between de facto relationships and marriage and that people want a real choice between the two which are treated as equivalent in NZ. Vows, promises mean something so why does the law ignore this while it is possible to enforce a verbal contract in business transactions but not in relationships?
Mine told me that there was no reason for STD testing. He either meant that it wasn’t necessary because she was so “pure and clean” or he just never intended to touch me again.
Maybe it was because he figured he’d be dead by sundown.
Ian, do you know Cerebrus?! D-day morning …
Stunned, grim, and despite being petite, apparently giving off take-no prisoners vibe ….
“Tonight you will give me the details. This INSTANT you will drive straight to X Health Center and get tested. For everything.”
He: “We used condoms. Every time. For 5 years.”
I: “What part of ‘this instant’ do you not understand?”
He, utterly serious, “Got it. Not sure it’ll matter though.”
This site…!
“Not sure it’ll matter though. I’ll probably be dead before dawn.”
I do not know Cerberus, but I have been reading Chump Lady for nine months now. Their words and stories are so unoriginal that they start to become like bad murder mysteries. You will be able to predict the ending by just knowing the characters.
Three headed hell hound? Now that’s pissed.
?
Mine had unprotected sex with the first OW even though she told him she had herpes. Who does that? Then I found internet searches, like ” can you get herpes from fingering someone?” dated before the time he told me the affair started. I wanted to vomit.
So sorry, Therapist Chump 🙁 I hope your health if okay. What a piece of scum.
Thank you! Thankfully, I do not have it. However, I did receive a letter from the doctor’s office stating that I had it (got the letter in the mail on a Friday evening). When I called the doctor’s office on Monday morning, they told me that someone had made a mistake. This was just one of the many horrible things he did. I could write a book. I am a therapist, who has been in therapy several years now, and I have been diagnosed with PTSD because of what he did. For example, he snuck out on his motorcycle and picked up a strange woman from this seedy motel in our town. At 2 am, the police were knocking on my door because the woman reported he raped her. He was never charged. I bet money that she was a prostitute, but that was never told to me. The police wouldn’t even tell me what happened. They said I had to talk to my ex to find out. My ex is now married to one of the OW. She was in our motorcycle group and thought she was a friend. I want so bad for everything to fall apart for him, but he seems to be able to fall back in his own shit and come out clean.
Stories like these make me think what is the point? The truth is that a lot of these fuck ups end up okay cause we chumps are just speed bumps in the road of their lives of entitlement.
That’s great your health is fine, Therapist Chump. I hear what you are saying about wishing things would fall apart for your ex. I have the same wish too, but I don’t think it’ll ever happen. He’s a master liar and manipulator. He fooled me for 25 (however I was on to his pathological lying the last few years of our marriage.) He can easily fool another Martha for 25 years. He’s got loads of flying monkeys and a large harem of women and followers. Most everyone thinks he’s a “nice guy.” Well, they haven’t lived with him intimately, so how would they know he’s a narc? Like CL tells us, leave a cheater gain a life. I try not to think about him and I haven’t gone an entire day yet and I probably won’t if I keep visiting CL. lol. 🙂 Take care, Therapist Chump
Therapist, I am so sorry. That is trauma. He was a real rocket scientist, huh?
He can be on the one way flight to Katmai Island where Tempest and my X are going for a Grizzly Adventure weekend. We are packing their coat pockets with snacks of salmon oil and Bits O Honey candy bars.
Thank you!! He told me, “Something’s wrong with me.” I replied, “You think?” Lol!! Boy would I love to see that!! I spend many nights lying awake thinking of all the bad things I wish would happen to him.
Yup. Mine said the same. Something is wrong. So wrong in fact that he needed God and salvation. He said his behavior was ruining lives of people he loved and who cared for him. He kept doing it though.
Me too. I worry sometimes about the detail my mind goes into. But, how else our we supposed to act?
Like a meek mouse after someone abuses us so egregiously?
This is what I know. My X….should be down on his knees, thanking whatever Gods he believes in (probably the god of Columbian Bam Bam)
that I….
Have SOMETHING TO LOSE.
Because if I did not, or a day comes when I don’t….He is going down. That is not tough talk. I mean it.
If the day comes, and the oncologist says, It’s Stage 4….you have 3-6 months….I am going to get medieval on his ass.
What is it with the cheaters saying we are “punishing” them? As if!
“Whoremat doesn’t have any STDs! Her ex just slept around like crazy and she slept with him but she’s not like that! She would NEVER have an STD! You don’t have to get tested! When she found out she was pregnant with me after 8 days and a missed period (???) she went to the dr and got tested and they said no. She was clean.”
Okay well the whoremat and I are NOT on good terms like you two are. She’s a fucking slut and a skank and I AM GETTING TESTED! She’s a WHORE! Regular people do NOT sleep with married men! ESPECIALLY when they’ve actually CAUGHT their own husbands cheating on them!
Love this.
This was so satisfying to read. Its such a perfect snapshot of what it’s like to deal with a cheater.
Wow. Just wow. The au pair – what a fucking cliche.
On D-day, I asked x if he used a condom (as far as I know, he has NEVER worn a condom).
He just giggled.
And I have a growth on my cervix after being monogamous for twenty years. Heeheefuckinghee.
I am so sorry. Maybe he will get a growth….idiot!
Where I live, the Catholic nun associated with my nearby Catholic church does sex ed for the local Catholic kids as part of confirmation. She has been doing this for generations. ‘Sister Mary Potter’ is known all over my community for her approach to sex education. That is abstinence and pictures of the most diseased penises and poontangs you have ever seen. Seriously, you can kind of tell where the kids are in their classes by the look on their faces. The look of shock and horror lasts for about a week. Anyway, I think many of the men in our lives could benefit from some of the pictures from Sister Mary Potter. (I just googled ‘diseased penis’ and none of the images I found come even close to Sister Mary Potters catalog of horrors.)
As we all now Google “diseased penises”…….Holy crap! I didn’t even know stuff like that existed. Now a diseased penis or vagina would for sure be the best punishment for these cheaters.
OMG, I just LOL’ed seeing “pootangs”. I swear, sometimes I’m 12!
I kind of want to hug Sister Mary Potter.
Bang on.
Many people who know me say I would have been happier living in “Little House on the Prairie” days…..that I am old fashioned.
Aside from most parts of the Internet, A/C, good coffee and access to pain killers…I am so okay with that.
We need more Old Fashioned. Anything does NOT go.
Roaring- He needed a beat down just for the giggles.
It used to piss me off how he would hold Shmoopie up as a paragon of virtue. “Shes so sweet!” Helloooo shes cheating on your brother with YOU! But shes such a good person! She flashed her boobs at you in the hot tub while her boyfrieds back was turned. Sweet huh?
Ugh. Awful. Did his brother ever find out?
Claire,
My X has had sex with the same…..critter that his brother has sex with when she was 18. She has 4 children from different fathers. She is not ugly (but she will be one day, due to her hard partying ways) but she preens and posts on FB as if she is Miss Universe.
She is a felon, a drug user and talks like a bad rap song.
And she is as bold as brass. No shame.
This pains me to type it…but he could not stop contacting her. Men I know….(professionals) would not spit on this woman if she was on fire. My X and I come from very different backgrounds socially and culturally. The first being that I am not a gutter cheater.
I would try to explain to him…did he not understand that normal men do not want women who have been so easy? That have been pumped more than the town gas station?
And, I have stopped checking, but about 6 weeks ago, she had proudly posted a photo of My X on her Fakebook page (not a typo).
Staying away from him is made easier when I truly grasp that he has no ethics. No moral compass is there.
How the heck do guys in their 40s and up even meet 18 year old girls to fuck? Never mind. That’s a path of depravity even I don’t want to google.
Ian, you are a very decent man with morals so therefore you wouldn’t go there and it truly warms my heart to know that decent men like you do exist. If you ever change your mind I could put you in contact with my ex but it might mean moving to S E Asia!!
They have trusting caring wives who let the babysitter stay in their house when she doesn’t have a place to live. Then he decides to leave his wife of 20 years for the 21yr old sitter
KFL – ‘Then he decides to leave his wife of 20 years for the 21yr old sitter’.
Please, tell me what’s IN this for the 21 yr old sitter.
I never would have been attracted to a man that old.
At least I knew that much.
He would have felt like my dad, my parent – wtf?
She sounds pretty off if she goes after that age when she’s young and nubile and all the guys around her the same age are pining.
This makes no sense other than I had a HS friend once who was determined once to make money off sex.
Have no idea where she is today.
Yes. Another couple common thread . Stbx women were all chaste as driven snow…
ChompingChump–ugh. The nanny-fuckers are among the lowest.
I had to be tested at 61 years of age as the ex had been having sex with prostitutes in a 3rd world country. in S E Asia. This little pearl of information was kept from me and when I found out I was gutted as I had only ever been with my ex and he knew what that meant to me. I was sick to the pit of my stomach knowing he could betray me in such a cold and calculating way physically. I was used to the mental betrayal but the intimate betrayal was the end for me and I never even got “I am sorry” from the bastard. The bastard now lives with a prostitute in her country and I hope he rots there. In fact, I saw a photo taken of him just last week and I can tell you, living with a 24 year trollop and her boys in all that heat and filth is not doing him any favours. After nearly 2 years over there he looks absolutely terrible. He was never the best looking sort in the world but he took a good photo. Now he can’t even take a good photo. Maybe the karma bus is rolling on in and I hope so. I will never, ever get over what he did to me but I am beyond it now.
Sending you big long-distance hugs and XOXOXOs <3
Glad you’re still among us, Maree!
Thank you Sunny and LaJ. LaJ, I have always said “you can’t kill weeds” !! I will be around for some time to come dear friend. 🙂
Maree, what a scum bucket your ex is. Who runs off to live with a prostitute?! Who are these people?? Yuck. So sorry you had to go through this.
Martha, I looked very hard at the photo of the ex and he looks evil. He is supposed to be smiling but it is almost like he was sneering at the camera. He is still very well liked back here in Australia by people who are either very similar to him or who are just plain weak and that includes our 2 adult children because they prefer their father and the prostit-tot to me. I am so over that now and I simply do not care any more.
Maree, I’m so happy to hear that you have come to the point of not caring any more.
Your X is a shallow human being. Sounds like his face is revealing his true personality.
My X is well liked and comes across to the public as a charming, upstanding citizen.
It’s true that those who like him are like him or weak. I’ve been repeatedly disappointed and hurt by my son’s complete disregard for me. Not only has my son’s rejection from me been painful but he’s also taken advantage of my kindness.I’ve come to the point now where I can’t continue to make excuses for his behavior. What I find most disturbing is his lack of remorse or regard for my feelings. I didn’t what to believe he could be so cold hearted.
I don’t deserve to e treated like shit. I’m working on not caring and moving on.
It’s a heartbreaking decision but he’s left me with no other option.
Maree, your ex looks like the Picture of Dorian Gray.
brit, I understand your pain with regard to your son. There is absolutely no excuse for his rejection and poor treatment of you. I know how much it hurts you and I wish I could make it better. I love my 2 kids and nothing will ever change that but I will no longer tolerate them disrespecting me and treating me badly. I, like you was and still am a good mother. My kids were everything to me but I have to let that go. Even though we are the adults so to speak, my kids are now middle age and I will just let it be. Keep reaching out brit and hopefully your son will start to see the error of his ways. I hope you have one or two very good and trusting friends to be by your side when you need them. ((((HUGS BRIT))))
Maree,
It might ease your pain some to know that living in a South East Asia, unless you have loads of cash, is NOT a dream life. I imagine he is in Thailand. In Thailand, you have to be on your guard at all times about being ripped off if you are not Asian. There are 4 levels of prices, staring with the highest.
1. Japanese Tourist
2. American/British/Western Europe Tourist
3. Other Asians
4. Thais
I spent about 4 months in Thailand and Cambodia. Being a tourist with money to burn….great. Living there? No way. He is going to be looked to for negotiating, bargaining and “handling” business from his Thai Ho. Simple transactions like buying supplies or having a service performed will because exercise to see how much money can be made off him. Or a pissing contest between him and a Thai man. (Your X will lose).
He will have to be “on guard” at all times, both with his wallet and being perceived as insulting someone. Touching a Thai child on the head? Never! It is deeply insulting to Buddhists. He might get his ass kicked.
He will never be accepted as an equal in Thai culture. Never. “White” men who come and live with Thai (or Cambodian) women are seen as clowns who are being used. It is an open joke. They are ridiculed, but because they do not know the language, and no one tells them, they are clueless.
They are made to pay for everything…extended families included.
I wish I could afford to put up a billboard for Western Men: Thai women LOVE Thai men. They are not seeking Westerns because they can’t find love.
There is one reason. Money. (This is true of most mail order brides.)
Your X is being used, and I am 100% confident in saying that. After his funds run out, she will kick him to the curb with brutality. And she will have an army of cold eyed Thai men who will help her do it.
He is headed to beyond sadz sausage town. And without a Thai woman to translate their impenetrable language, he will be lost. Phonetically, you can pick up small phrases (I have an ear for languages) but reading it? Forget about it.
This would also apply to the Philippines, if he leaves the capital. (And I would NOT want to be in the Philippines right now…scary stuff).
When I finally left South East Asia, I felt a sense of relief. It is so hot, grippingly drippingly humid hot, and the smell of exhaust from the mopeds gets so old. It gets so…exhausting have to fight with people over simple prices. Being stared at every where you go. And not like Italian me…appreciative stares..just like mouth open, blank stare. I can’t stress to you enough- you need a lot of money to live in comfort in SE Asia. They are not stupid. They know Westerners want A/C. You better believe you will pay for it and private car transport.
When I would ride my moped, I had to tie a bandana around my nose and mouth due to the fumes. After a few days, it would be black. Buying a car over there is off the charts expensive.
What he did to you is an abomination from the bowels of hell. But know this: He-is-doomed. The minute…the nano second he can’t pay for what she or relatives want- it will be over and he might be homeless or beat up and left in the jungle.
Believe it and take comfort!
Sylvia, thank you so much for your post and I do appreciate your information as I don’t know much about SE Asia and really never had much of an interest until the ex went to live there. The ex is in Cambodia and he loves it. He is an extremely cunning person so he will be on his toes. Quite some time ago I did say to him that he has met his match and he is being scammed like he scammed me and all he could do was smirk. He has himself convinced that this 24 year old truly loves him at his grand age of 64. As they say there is no fool like and old fool and I will leave him to it as he has chosen this life. He does have considerable money at the moment but he is spending it like a man with no arms. How else can he keep a 24 year old happy and her boys and her family. Hell is waiting for him. As an aside, you are a very pretty young lady if that is you in the photo. Don’t let sadness destroy your beautiful face or mind.
Dearest Maree,
Thank you so much. I tried so hard to be pretty for my X. I do not understand why he did not value it…I cooked, smiled, picked out perfect movies, took on his problems. I am struggling with it today. I can’t slip up my fanatical no contact.Thank you for writing me. It helps I can provide this comfort to you.
Because listen…I KNOW Cambodia! I still have friends there, and I was there longer than I was in Thailand. I just Skyped with my French friend who runs a hotel there!
You rest your head easy tonight. You sleep sweet…BECAUSE Cambodia is dangerous and tricky.
Your X is not fluent in Khmer. I know he is not. It is harder than Thai! Cambodians on the whole are kind people in surface transactions.
BUT…they are desperately poor. Poor like we do not experience in the West. So, your X is in an impossible situation. He has to spend money to keep his Ho, and to not sweat to death, but there will be people watching. Guess who? The police. The government. Organized crime. Desperate strong young men…who make $3 a day.
The Cambodian police are far scarier than I can convey. They play the long game. They will watch, and wait, and watch some more. Cambodian women do not have any political pull or power, unless connected to a governmental official. The Ho cannot protect him. She could not even protect him from an angry shop keeper.
One day, it might be tonight, it might be next year…but the knock will come. It will be a thug, probably on the government payroll, and your X will be accused of something. It will go away…for a price. It will not stop. This is not “what if”. This is “it will” happen. If he was connected to an NGO or the United Nations…then no. But, some white dude living with a young Cambodian woman….TARGET.
I told the owner of a guest house I stayed in…” I think Cambodia is dangerous. And I don’t get scared in many countries.”
He said, and I am quoting…”If you do not understand you are in danger in Cambodia…YOU ARE IN DANGER.”
So, your X can strut around and act like a big shot…he is a fool. Sickening…many men go to Cambodia to have sex with children.
Who is setting it up? Cambodian men. Ruthless does not begin to describe some of them.
Hell is waiting for him HERE on Earth. I did not see many white men with Cambodian women. Not at all. It is all in Thailand. Do you know why?
Because they had enough sense to realize their life has very little value to people who make $100 a year.
I hope your pain eases and you treat yourself this weekend. That abomination can SMIRK all he wants:
THE JOKE IS ON HIM.
You are so so right, I remember talking to one old fool, who was shacking up with a twenty year old, he was boasting how they made better girlfriends because they had ‘twu wuv’,as CL would say, I told him ‘she only loves your money, and if you think I’m lying tell her you’re broke’. The exchange rate favors the US so you can live well on less money, but yes,as a foreigner, you’re walking around with a bullseye on your back and as Sylvia said, it’s just a matter of time
Yep! ‘Mine’ – yeah right – threw an absolute tantrum when I discovered he was riding my former friend (in my home, etc) bareback and decreed testing was essential. ‘Don’t be ridiculous, she’s not sleeping with anyone else.’ Face fucking palm! He was never an angry man. He was scary furious I suggested such an obviously stupid thing. Yup. HPV and chlamydia. I only ever slept with him! Her? Not so much. Ugh. The cervical cancerous changes I still receive monitoring and treatment for are stupid. Real stupid. Thanks whores.
I would find it laughable if it wasn’t so serious about how angry these idiots get when found out due to their lack of morals, self control and brain cells. I wish you well but this betrayal truly does mess with our minds. It is still the one thing that leaves me in disbelief and sad. They really do, do us a favour when they leave.
Or we leave them, Maree!
Just as an aside, all Sylvia mentions is pretty on the mark. Did a really interesting anthropology undergrad paper on livelihoods in this area, we were specifically looking at Laos, but Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia were looked at also. And a friend of mine who is doing her Masters on development in Cambodia will back this up, impoverished and desperate people from these SE Asian developing nations have a subsistence lifestyle, it’s hard, and many are supporting large families in rural locations by remittance. Latching onto an old, white guy is hitting the jackpot. And keeping him sweet is their job description, they don’t want to lose the golden goose. If he thinks it is love, okay?!!
I am glad you are doing better, and the pain of the rejection of your kids is less painful than it once was. Let’s just see where his story ends up. And theirs too. If he has remarried a much younger woman, with kids, your kids are going to get a big fright when they discover daddy’s money is never going to reach them when he pops his clogs. I can’t imagine he has sewn that up legally in Australia, when he lives in Cambodia. But hey, at the end of the day, not your circus and monkeys, right? I can only imagine the pain, after all, the moneys, well, they are/were once, right? (But not anymore, adult children can sometimes be the pits!) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9a/22/45/9a2245f1b71f85af56a83a617552a858.jpg
Thank you horsesrcumin for your post. It is interesting but I truly do not care about my ex anymore and I am glad he has gone. I think my heart and brain struggled to process for quite some time the loss of my identity as a wife and a mother as well as the loss of my kids. The ex actually did me a favour which I couldn’t see at the time but he did and I am glad to be free of the predator although I pity the girl even though she is also a predator !! Not my circus and not my monkeys now!!
Marie – ‘Not my circus and not my monkeys now!!’
You have passed into Meh-Town! Good for you, girl and congratulations.
What a painful journey.
When I read how life is in the foreign countries of Cambodia and Thailand, I was intrigued by what Sylvia wrote – obviously well travelled.
It gave ME comfort that your Idiot X will probably get his head knocked through a door someday.
And, your kids will come to their senses.
The whole point is, the grass is Not Greener on the Other Side.
Until you start watering it.
I have 3 large watering bowls for my dogs, and they will be the recipient of my nurturing.
Do you think his rage stemmed from his already knowing what he’d done to you? It just seems so strange that a typically not-overtly-angry fuckwit would go postal over that detail.
I so hope you, and all the others affected by transmitted diseases, stay *relatively* well and that cures arrive soon.
At the time, early on in the piece, I think it was the entitlement, ClaireS. That he could fuck a maggot and get away with it scot-free. Zero consequences. And even a bit of total self mind fuckery (they really do believe this shit) that what he did could never affect me! He looks back on that period as one of total delusion, that he was so fucked in the head that he believed his own bullshit. As he said, if he heard that crap from anyone else, he would bitch-slap the crazy right out of them. If it was one of our kids’ partners ….
I consider I was somewhat lucky. The diseases he gave me, one was completely curable, and cured, and the other, I am monitored and treated for any changes. Without any known cancers in my extended family, and a reasonably healthy lifestyle, hopefully I can keep the changes from developing further. Have done for quite a few years so far! The worst of it (for my money) was that the maggot told him once – years ago, when we first started seeing each other – that he would get AIDS from me. I was totally gobsmacked. I was a virgin (I went to school with her, same small town) and she had slept with half the town, and then most of the city she moved to’s population. I didn’t get it. I know she was pissed off with him for ending their relationship (she was serial cheating on him, go figure!) and that he’d moved on a few months later. I honestly couldn’t work it out. I wondered if it was because it was the 80s, and my Dad had just a couple of years earlier been outed as gay? The moral panic of the times? That of course every gay man was infected, and anyone near them was affected by the contagion??? It was just so weird! But she is a fucked up result of a womanising arsehole father, and a piously religious mother. You don’t get a lot more fucked than that winning combo! Dumpster diving sure is the modus operandi of the cheater. Even if she has the veneer of successful CFO. You can’t make a silk purse out of a maggot – isn’t that the saying?
I found out about the cheating on a Sunday morning. I spoke to a lawyer that day. (It helps that she is my cousin!) Went through the whole day normally (apple picking and out to dinner with the kids) and confronted him that night and kicked him out of the bedroom. It took me two months to convince him to leave the house. The divorce is final now. I got the house, three of the four kids wont see or talk to him, and things are better.
About six weeks after discovery, on a Wednesday night, when he came to bed (after pink cow FarmVille FB messaging), I rolled over and said he needed to talk to his brother about moving in with him on Friday. That Friday, I drove my daughter to her swim tournament and then dropped him off at his brothers house. Took me and my son home and never looked back.
Christine M. and Physicsgal, impressive!
Yay for you girls, you’re champs. I wish I had been like you.
You rock,now that’s the way to do it
I kicked him out after the last DDay, but he was trying to charm his way back in to my good graces.
He came over when knew the hot water heater was out. He is a so NOT mechanically inclined pencil pusher, but I found him in the garage messing with it because the know-it-all thought he was so smart and could fix anything.
I was trying to show him that when you google his OW’s name, her mug shot pops up and was asking him why would you forsake your family for that? He refused to respond but then asked for my phone so he could look up the hot water heater. I just snapped.
I literally kicked him out of the garage shouting, “You broke our vows and broke our family, and now you’re going to break my hot water heater, too?! GET OUT! Get out of my garage! And get out of my life!!
And then I took his remote to the gate of our community and changed all the lock codes. Needless to say, we now exchange for visitation at locations away from the house. Later, I sent him an email stating the water heater, like him, had hidden issues, could no longer function properly, and had to be discarded.
I included the bill since I put it on his credit card. (Our finances had not been separated yet.) He never said a thing to me or my lawyer about it. Ha.
“Later, I sent him an email stating the water heater, like him, had hidden issues, could no longer function properly, and had to be discarded.”
OMG – this made my day! You are mighty.
“Later, I sent him an email stating the water heater, like him, had hidden issues, could no longer function properly, and had to be discarded.”
^^ love.
(I’m guessing that heater no longer made you hot, either)
Lol
+1
Finally, ! A CHEATER appliance that no longer works!
Glad he was emasculated in this particular way – every choice he makes, from rutting to repair reveal him to be an asshole and he’s not fooling anyone, not even himself!
ROTFLMRO!!!!!
Chump Nation is THE BEST!
Still…….ROTFLMRO!!!!
ForgeOn!
So many chumps checking-in on this post. We need some kind of accreditation for chumps who have gained a life and come back periodically to share the good news from the other side!
Hey Ian! How goes it?!
LOVE reading all your comments, as well as everyone else’s!
This post has been one of the most amazing, crazy, healing, insightful smorgasbords of laughs, wisdom and caring! 750 comments!!! Un-freakin’-believable!
You have a very good suggestion there, Ian. Tracy and now our Precious Tempest are the most accredited of former chumps, so they may have some thoughts on that.
Is so true that once we get ‘to the other side’, we need to continue our clarion calls to those still wandering. I myself benefited greatly from such calls when I first landed here in Feb of 2014 and will do what I can to return the favor.
I do indeed intend to continue to read,,,,and post when I have a moment, in order to comfort and empower any and all who find their way here.
You will soon be ‘one of us’, Ian. You are ‘getting there’. As Winston Churchill said: “When going thru H___, KEEP GOING!” ‘Tis so important to NOT loose your momentum.
Please, you too be one who can be ‘accredited’ once you make it to ‘the other side’. Our men chumps are so valuable and precious.
Love to you, Ian…..and Love to all, as we…..ForgeOn!!!!
My first un-chump moment I’ve probably told quite a few times already here, but here it goes: Jeffrey Dahmer (that’s my new name for him thanks to Tempest) was sitting across the bed from me. We were talking post the Divorce Letter he gave to me. I was still doing the Pick Me Dance and trying to save our marriage. I told him that I wanted to understand why he needed to have such close female friends. What he calls “healthy female friends.” Yeah, I was stupid for saying that, but I was still in the fog. He then went on to tell me, “I gave up Sally for you. I gave up Mary for you. I gave up Anne for you.” Those are not their real names. He gave up all these women for me WHILE WE WERE MARRIED! How nice of him to do that for me! He then went on to tell me that he didn’t love me anymore. Funny how just a couple months before he “loved me so much!” I was instantly un-chumped and divorced from him in my heart at that exact moment. After he left our bedroom, I opened up the container that I saved the first and ONLY rose petals that he gave to me 25 years prior. Petals that I saved and cherished. I flushed them down the toilet. I then threw away all the negligees that I bought for him. And all the sex toys went in the garbage too. I was done and divorced emotionally from him. That was the start of the rage and anger building towards him and it took me another year plus to get all the anger out and go as much NC as I can see since I can’t go 100% because of the kids.
Yep! Mine was at our second and final marriage counseling session when he said, “I don’t love Catlady anymore.” It was like a switch flipped in me and I was just completely done. It was an incredibly hurtful thing to say after 23 years of marriage. Of course, it wasn’t until several weeks later that I got proof of the latest affair, which explained everything to me.
One of my main moments (it was a snowball rolling downhill sort of thing) was also in marital counselling, second appointment, when the therapist asked him if maybe he wanted out of the marriage but was too cowardly to say so and he just looked down and mumbled “yeah, that.”
Then, a half hour later as he was dropping me off at work, I took off my rings, he gave me his debit and credit cards that were on my account, and then he asked me for one last kiss.
I will forever be grateful to that counsellor who was so much more perceptive than I was about a man I had known for over twenty years. But it took that little desire for a goodbye kiss from my ex of all of half an hour to hammer home that he had no sense of what was respectful or appropriate and never would.
He asked for a goodbye kiss?! Asshole! Hopefully you didn’t give him one. My ex grabbed me, kissed me passionately and told me he loved me. Seven hours later he’s sitting across from me in the basement, reading off the Divorce Letter that he wrote four days prior all day at work. Two days after he wrote the Divorce Letter, he grabbed and held my hand for the first time in months at church (gave me hope!). At his parents house the same day, I was sitting by myself on the couch and he came and sat right down next to me and snuggled with me. An hour later he gave me and his mom a group hug (once again giving us all hope.) A few weeks prior to this, I managed to pull-off another beautiful and delicious Thanksgiving, even though I was extremely depressed (post D-day), couldn’t eat and couldn’t sleep. After dinner, in front of everyone, he grabbed me and kissed me passionately. Mind you, he hadn’t kissed me passionately since D-Day. His aunt even said, “Get a room!” And now looked at all this as what a big fake he is in public. He did all of this, sans that day he asked me for divorce, to perform to his audience of admirers. Jeffrey Dahmer is such a nice guy! What a great husband he it! Look how wonderfully he treats his wife! But when the admirers were not around, he did not act like this. A total con man. A total wolf in sheep clothing. A total parasitic predator of women.
Martha, first of all I love your new name for your ex. Jeffrey Dahmer suits him fine!
My ex was also giving me all kinds of mixed messages, and all this was going down as I was having to entertain his family and our married kids of Christmas. Absolutely the worst time ever. I would sit there and silently cry and my ex would come over and ask “what’s wrong?” and I’d say, “I’m crying because this might be the last time I’ll ever have Christmas in this house with everyone (we were married 31 years, together 36). He looked really sympathetic and when I went to bed early, he came up and put his arms around me and held me all night. Then a day or two later he’s distant and depressed and pushing me away. It was so frickin’ confusing. At this point he’s just told me he’s “fallen out of love with me,” but I don’t know the whole truth of what’s going on with him, although I’m pretty suspicious there’s someone else. Anyway, the ambiguous message make your head want to explode. It’s like you’re getting hit on the hopium pipe every once in awhile, and it’s just enough to keep you from giving up. For the longest time I kept thinking he had a brain tumor or a serious mental illness that suddenly manifested. I kept thinking he would “wake up” and realize he was destroying me and our family. I swear, I now understand what it’s like for people to go through detox after having to force myself to break the bond I had with him after all those years.
I went the brain tumor/mental illness/ midlife crisis route too.
I wish it had been a brain tumor.
Haha, I have wished he’d have a brain tumor too, but he supports me for now and I only wish health and peace on him. Plus a STD that will infect his penis. Gosh, I had no idea that penises could get so messed up! A few years ago I had this big eruption next to my private parts. It hurt so bad. Probably something my ex passed along. And I had something that was greenish coming out of my vagina. Probably something nice from the ex. He managed to not give me much to make me feel special, but the things he gave I’ll never forget.
“I kept thinking he would “wake up” and realize he was destroying me and our family. Yes, Lyn, I had those thoughts too. He was destroying me, our children and our family that we (mostly me) built together. And he did it without one tear being shed for what he did to me or the kids. The only tears he shed were for himself. Jeffrey Dahmer/Sad Sausage. He sat there as cold as ice while I’ll cried and shook uncontrollably. He was robotic when both of our children were crying hysterically. He tried the “Mom and I no longer want to be married to each other anymore” and I shut that shit down as soon as that lie came out of his mouth. It was ALL HIM! This is what he wanted. He wanted to be a cheater and a liar and an adulterer and a con man and predator of women. That’s what he wanted and that’s what he can now be. He can be his dream man for himself. He didn’t and still doesn’t give a shit what he did to me or the kids. Why would he? We were never a priority for him EVER! It’s easy to feel no feelings of empathy towards your wife and kids when you are a narcissist. Lyn, I’m sorry you too when through the mind games. Loving one moment and the next a cold and indifferent man. I have said this for a long time, but only a evil person can act this way towards another human being. I could never in a million years do this to another person. Never!
I’ll never understand how anyone can walk out on their family without any remorse or regret or empathy for the carnage they’ve left behind.
In my case the evil is relentless. You’re right Martha it’s easy when you never loved them in the first place.
It’s devastating to realize the life and and the person who you shared the last 25 years with was an imposter and never existed.
Lyn and Martha, mine put me through these same mind games. One minute he said that the kids and I could have the house and I could just pay him his half from my retirement account and the next he was “hurting and wanted a hug”. One minute he was saying that he had to cheat because I was so awful for getting upset over his drinking and staying out all night and the next “he didn’t deserve me”. Wtf?
Sooooo many more scenarios like this and I was 6 months pregnant at the time. Months of this went on until I finally found out about the 23 year old he was seeing. This type of person has no empathy. It is always about them and manipulating you to get you to”fall in line” with what they want in any given moment. Their brains are disordered.
No contact (or minimal with kids) is the only way to go. You have to stop them from messing with your mind long enough to start seeing this crap for what it is. Once I did that, I got stronger and began to heal.
My ex did fake lovey-dovey affectionate crap too during the whole “maybe we’ll reconcile” phase. It was just a show to keep me pacified so maybe I’d forgive or forget what I had seen him doing. I kind of started to fall for it but luckily I trusted my intuition that something seemed off. He was just trying to pacify me to keep up appearances and stop me from getting a lawyer. It kind of worked until he insisted he wouldn’t stop seeing his 19-year-old “friend”. Then the threats came out and finally the divorce. My biggest regret is not getting my shit together and hiring the meanest lawyer I could find immediately.
WTF! Like seriously! What is wrong with these people?! Stbx had a script like yours. Lay it on thick in public. Sometimes I’d wonder what was going on. At home? He was an utter bitch ( sorry female dogs) . At his family functions he’d get me a plate drink and ask what I wanted. Anywhere else… would not bother. Sends me flowers for my birthday when I was away studying. Never did that while I was home. I could go on. I hate people who play with peoples emotions. Yes . Hate. It is a deceitful act that as I’ve read here often amounts to a raping of the soul.
Mandie,
That is text book narcissistic image control. My X would pump other women’s gas at the fuel pump (GAG).
He would leave waitresses these jaw dropping tips (which I would go back and retrieve…more than the bill) and it was all to cultivate his
“aww shucks, I am just a country boy”.
Another nauseating thing I learned about my X is that he is a gossip. One of the best compliments I receive (over and over) is that I do not gossip. I think it is a cousin to be in a two face.
Truly, I mind my own business. I would hear this fool, on my deck, just digging into other’s people business. I would be curled up with the Norton Anthology of Women’s Lives, and he is dishing with some clown about so and so.
I said, Are you an old woman at a beauty shop? Mind your own business!
It was a prurient interest in the misfortune of others. Not sexy. Not masculine.
SAD – ‘I said, Are you an old woman at a beauty shop? Mind your own business!’
Ok, I expect some wrath from somebody over this but, to quote Pulp Fiction, ‘When you little scamps get together, you’re worse than a sewing circle.’
It’s been my experience, seriously, that most of the men I know gossip at least as bad as women, if not far worse!
“What he calls “healthy female friends.”
Kind of like “healthy snacks…” A nice label but he’s not letting you know what that really consists of……
““I gave up Sally for you. I gave up Mary for you. I gave up Anne for you.””
This is the usual attitude of people who value “friendships” and believe that they are on par with a marriage.
Yep! “Healthy female friends.” That’s him trying to justify to me that it’s all perfectly healthy and normal. He even went so far to say to me that he wished I had “healthy male friends.” I have male friends at work. We talk about work and family stuff. I would never in a million years go out for coffee, lunch, dinner, or drinks with them. I’d never text or email them. The “funny” thing is that just before my 20th high school reunion, I got in touch with a guy that I dated for two weeks in high school. My husband even encouraged I’d email and see how he was doing. We emailed back and forth catching up. Nothing was hidden as all the emails came to our family email address. The friend from high school asked if we could meet the day after the reunion to catch-up face-to-face. Now he lived in MN and I lived in NY. We were at the reunion in WI and I probably would never see him again. I asked my husband if he minded if I met him for a few hours the next day. This was the first and only time in my marriage that I ever met alone with a guy. My husband said he didn’t mind. I was gone for two hours and we just sat in his truck by Lake Michigan. We talked and caught-up more with life. That was it. He drove me back to my moms where my husband and kids were staying. My husband looked soooo jealous! Now mind you. This is after 13 years of me putting up with him going out for lunch dates with women. And having lots and lots of close female friends. I wasn’t supposed to be insecure about that! No way! It was totally fine for him to do it, but not me. And I wasn’t even hiding it. The friend even came into my moms home and said goodbye to everyone, including my husband. Once back home in NY, a week later he said to me, “If you are pregnant, at least we know it’s not mine (my ex had a vasectomy.) So him seeing women behind my back was okay, but if I saw someone one time and one time only, I had sex with the guy? Hmmmm. Projection much? Yeah, Jeffrey Dahmer thinks it’s perfectly fine for him to have as many close emotionally intimate relationships with as many women as he’d like, but I couldn’t have one friend that I would never ever see again. Things that make you go, hmmmmmmmmmm
Jesus Christ! I know you are a Christian Martha and so am I, but what do these fuckers want ( rosary tonight)? Negligee. Sex toys. Sentimental. Intelligent. Dutiful. Willing to listen and understand. What do they really want? It is shit like this you know you gave more than these Aps in every way. Sexually most of us were no prudes. I sure wasn’t. What the hell is it? Yes. I know disordered but Jesus….
They want it all. They want the cake, the pie, the eclair, the torte, the taco, the money, the conpliments, the clean house and none of the work, sacrifice, loyalty, rules, boundaries or limitations that gets you those goodies. A subset of them also enjoy duping and hurting people who love them.
That sums it up well, Sylvia!
That’s perfect, Sylvia. You get it and said it in a lot of less words than me. haha. 🙂
Exactly!
Thanks. Still argh!
Cake. Cake. Cake.
They want cake. The more the better.
Mandie101, like CL and everyone said, they want cake. It’s tough to fully grasp it even still now. I seriously don’t know how I could have been a better wife. Trust me, I know I’m not perfect and like everyone in the world, I’ve made mistakes. But I in no way deserved to be treated like that! I’m not ugly. I always kept my weight down to make sure I was attractive to my husband and trust me, that wasn’t always easy. I think my body was still hot considering I was 48 years old at the time and had two kids. He told me all the time how hot I was. I wonder if that was a lie, too? I’m smart and up on current events up to a point, so I can have an intelligent conversation. I kept the house organized and clean with no help from him. I did all the meal planning, grocery shopping and cooking. I tried my best to be a good cook and baker. When we first got married I was a great cook. I tried my best. Every. Single. Time we went out for dinner, he’d order chicken. So, I figured I needed to get better at making chicken. So I did. Lots and lots of delicious chicken recipes. Then he switched to fish. Every. Single. Time he’d order fish. Made me feel like I wasn’t making enough fish at home, so I made more fish. He’d never have to say anything to me. His actions made me feel like I wasn’t doing cooking to his liking. But when I told him I’d no longer be cooking for him after he asked for a divorce. What the fuck did he make for himself every night for dinner. Pasta and jarred sauce. Where was the fucking fish?! I jumped through hoops in bed. He sucked in bed for the first 12 years of our marriage. Sex was all about him. Obligatory kissing for a few minutes, grab at my breasts, grab my private parts, move my hand to his penis, make him feel good, penetration and done. I can’t tell you how many times I cried during sex. And he knew I was crying but never cared to ask why. Eventually I got the courage to tell him that I didn’t like how things were going (I think I was kind and gentle when I said it — I hope so) and he did improve. I had to teach him like a dog. Only a selfish person needs to be taught how not to be selfish. Things got better and then great. And now I realize it too was all a sham. He was never making love to me. He was having sex with me. And all the shit work I did for his family. Yeah, I was a chump and they used me like my ex did. How do I know this? Because they threw me away like trash when I spoke up for myself to my ex-monster-in-law. I could go on and on about how worked harder to try to be a better person, do something different, improve myself, twist myself, but it was never ever enough! Like I said. I’m not perfect. I see women who are long-time happily married and they talk shit about their husbands, lots of times in front of their face and don’t treat their husbands half as well as I did, but they are still married. I don’t get it. I will never get it. CL told me to fix my picker and figure out why I settled for a fuckwit. I’m working on that. Now pass me a piece of cake!
Martha,
This has long puzzled me as well. I don’t know how to analyze this, but I see women who are..not cute, well groomed or anyway sexy (and I have a huge space of what this can mean, all shapes and sizes can be attractive) but the more important point is: they sort of snarly and hateful. They don’t clean or cook, they snap and order their husband around. They can’t find Peru on a map. They spend money like Imelda Marcos.
And the husbands follow them around like lap dogs. They are afraid of them (it seems).
I was not perfect with my X, but I was…always striving to be. The only thing I ever did wrong (ACCORDING TO HIM) was ask him not to bring illegal drugs around me and stop coming around me high. I also asked him to stop talking with tramps and whores who did these drugs.
This is all we ever argued about. *And it was the two things he was committed to as a cat is to sleeping.*
Please don’t let game playing be the only way to be in a relationship. I don’t have the energy. If I like you, I like you. I am not playing hard to get at 40. I can’t pretend.
I will just be lonely. 🙁
Sylvia–you will never be lonely. Your warmth emanates across the bandwith, as I’m sure it does in person. I cannot imagine you will want for people who want to share their time and love with you. (But a lesson to us all–avoiding loneliness does not mean dating, or necessarily finding that “special someone.” Loneliness is kept at bay by surrounding ourselves with people who are enthusiastic to be with us, romantically or otherwise.)
I agree with Tempest, Sylvia. You sound like a lovely person from what you write and what you were asking of your X is a reasonable want in a relationship. Hugs to you.
Thank you. I work from home…so unless someone parachutes through the roof, I am going to take the suggestions for Meet Ups. I am SO done with online dating. I can’t take it.
I’ve had the same thoughts Sylvia, when I see other couples who are in long term marriages and know the wife doesn’t cook, doesn’t clean, complain about their husband,sometimes in front of them, they look like they don’t care about their appearance, some wear stained clothes and would be considered obese, have nice looking husbands, their husbands seem to adore their wives. Everyone has their own priorities I realize. I planned our meals, shopped and cooked for them, cleaned, paid bills, dressed appropriately, cleaned and tried my best to have a happy home and family. Not saying I was perfect but I tried my best.
Makes me wonder if I would have been more appreciated if I hadn’t been so accommodating.
I’ve had the same thoughts Sylvia, when I see other couples who are in long term marriages and know the wife doesn’t cook, doesn’t clean, complain about their husband,sometimes in front of them, they look like they don’t care about their appearance, some wear stained clothes and would be considered obese, have nice looking husbands, their husbands seem to adore their wives. Everyone has their own priorities I realize. I planned our meals, shopped and cooked for them, cleaned, paid bills, dressed appropriately, cleaned and tried my best to have a happy home and family. Not saying I was perfect but I tried my best.
My sister always remarks that she and I went to the wrong Princess school (evidently not the one where we were trained to only accept men who worshiped us).
Same here Sylvia, I was a devoted partner, not perfect but totally dedicated and loyal, sexy, competent, intelligent and hard working. I know I am attractive, I got a lot of attention and interest from other men although I didn’t want it. I treated the traitor like a king in his lazyboy throne. And I was just as good in my previous relationships. I’ve always been struck by those snarly bitches that get men to run around after them like servants. I studied them and thought I should try to do that but I just don’t know how to. I can’t make myself do that. Damn, I am 52 and still don’t know what men want!! The traitor has won, he’s killed my sexuality, it’s gone, the thought of someone touching me makes me sick. I just want to be with my pets and my livestock. I know I must be wrong but my faith in humanity is dead. Yet I read you guys here, so I must be wrong!
Sylvia, I have a friend who ended up falling in love with the contractor who was doing renovations on her house. So maybe someone could end up almost parachuting through the roof someday, you never know. 🙂 But Meet Up sounds like a great way to meet new people (new friends and possibly dating prospects too) in a low-key friendly environment doing interesting activities.
Women who are narcissistic and who have chosen co-dependent men as mates are often the ones you see who make little to no effort in relationships with men who are devoted to them.
Also, two emotionally healthy people can negotiate their way in a relationship where one may not be a good cook or a fashion plate. As long as the couple is respectful, honest and loving with each other, what does it matter if one dresses in sweats or if one is not a great cook?
Sometimes when I am out, I will see a couple seemingly devoted to one another and I will think, “Well, I look just as good if not better than her but she has a devoted man and I don’t.” Then I remember that XH is probably a narcissist psychopath and that the man in the couple probably isn’t.
Makes me feel like I was the narc at the beginning because he was devoted to me. And then I became the codependent and he turned narc and left me in the end. I just feel horrible over all and I fear I broke a good and loving man and turned him into a monster. Because we used to be so happy and now he’s just angry and bitter from my perceived rejections of him.
I was one of the imperfect wives. We didn’t have enough sex, I know we didn’t. He wanted me to want him and I did, but he was emotionally not connected so much of the time it’s hard to get horny for someone that isn’t even there! And now here we are. He cheated and I still loved him. But apparently I was in this relationship all by myself for who knows how long because he DIDN’T speak up! And now I have ten years of regrets for everything that could have been but wasn’t because he didn’t say enough and neither did I
My moment of rebellion came when he yelled and screamed at me calling me names in front of OW. The icing was when I started crying and he gave me the finger. I looked at him and said, “I am done with you.” and I looked at her and said, “And I am done with you.” The next morning he started yelling at me about my behavior to OW and my response was, “I cannot live like this, you need to choose between your girlfriend or your family.” He moved out to her house the next day. Still makes me mad thinking about it, especially since he is screwing around with out teenage boys minds and emotions.
He’s fucking another woman. She’s fucking a married man. You tell them you’re done with them both and somehow YOU are the one with behavior issues? Right. Reality check, lane one please!
That’s awful, what a horrible man to treat you like this, to treat anyone like this!
When I discovered the other woman and told him to stop pursuing her, he leaned back arrogantly in the desk chair he was in and said “not at the present time”.
That moment the earth fell away from under my feet, I unchumped myself. The world as I knew it forever changed.
Saw a lawyer within two days and filed much to his raging soliloquy.
Ugh, this makes me want to reach out and slap the smug right out of him.
“That moment the earth fell away from under my feet…” What a perfect way to describe that moment when you finally see the monster behind the mask.
+1 – “That moment the earth fell from under my feet” – dreadfully vivid analogy.
He sounds Ted Bundyish.
“That moment the earth fell away from under my feet, I unchumped myself. The world as I knew it forever changed.
Exactly. For me it was when I realized he wasn’t lying to me because he was ashamed/embarrassed/other stuff I projected on him, but because HE WANTED TO. He wanted to be doing the things he was doing (I didn’t know the half of it). It was all by choice. Turns out he didn’t have my back, like I always thought he did. I had trusted him without a second thought (hell, without a first one) for 11 years. In that moment, when he was lying to me, smiling the whole time, everything changed. I realized he wasn’t my best friend, he was my worst enemy. And I had had NO CLUE.
After a year of gaslighting since DDay I had a VAR and got a conversation between the traitor and the whore while I was in town picking up their son. They were plotting how they were going to turn him against our life here on the farm, how she thought I might gift the farm to the little boy, because they know how much I love him, how the traitor wanted to move on, where he was going to fuck her next and how, AND I also heard him lie to HER about steps he was supposed to be taking to advance the separation, meeting with accountant, bank manager etc which actually hadn’t taken place and never did happen in the end. My secret rebellion is that I will NEVER tell that gold digger whore that he is lying to her while he is telling her how much he wants her and apparently making plans and plotting their future taking advantage of me. Some couple they make. Poor child has them for parents and there is nothing I can do about it.
I was a chummpy chump initially. What I did was collect evidence post d-day during the 9 weeks he stayed in the house.
What I did was hold onto that evidence until he had the hide to go to lawyers asking for money from me to pay for my share of a loan (I had asked for the password to the loan so I could see I wasn’t paying for anything extra, he never gave it to me & then lawyered up).
I passed all the evidence onto my lawyers, proof that he had spent thousands of dollars on dating sites, proof that he had used Moneygram to send money to overseas scam artists. I am now going for my share of his superannuation – he doesn’t know that yet. I have decided that every time he costs me money, I will go for more of what I am entitled to. I was willing to just walk away. Arrogance & entitlement are their downfall.
Ooh, a stealthy chump. Mighty!
Well-done, Kimhopes!
Mighty!!
Like many of us I had plenty of red flags telling me it was a lost cause but I knew the OM was pure evil and I warned her so the day she left. She knew going into it that her 20yr senior OB/GYN had a history of domestic violence and other vile behaviour. Less than a year after she left he beat her up. And the first person she turned to was me (not her Switzerland family/ friends). She was finally remorsful and seeking reconciliation for three months then suddenly went silent. I finally learnt she had “fallen back in love” with the NPD Dr Stranglove. It was then that I truly realised that her story was sadly like many of the other women on this blog and that the path she was on was nothing my love could save her from. No matter how much you love someone, it’s almost impossible to save them from drowning when they choose to swim far out into the sea of their error.
So true. Allfornothing, your moniker really makes sense. Their actions do not.
Dear god, I hope you’ve reported him to the medical board if he was her OB/GYN. That is a major breach of ethics.
Also, you’re so right that our love can’t save them from themselves or anyone else. It’s a sad thing. But our love can save ourselves.
“She knew going into it that her 20yr senior OB/GYN”
One sad fact here is that most likely she thought she wa really cool snagging “an older man” and beating out a “woman older than she” for him.
Well, if youth were really all that, why are these younger women wasting their time with unavailable men. And in this case, a physically abusive one.
My ex moved out about 12 days after D-Day because living with me while I knew he had a mistress was “too uncomfortable.” I didn’t want him to leave but I just told him “fine, whatever.” He told me before he left that he hadn’t made up his mind and was going to use the time apart to really think about things and decide what he wanted in life. Oh gee, thanks.
But, I was hoping for him to come back and I wanted to reconcile so I believed him.
He came over a few days later to play with our daughter and after she went to bed I tried to share a part of a book I was reading with him about how to rebuild trust after infidelity. He stared past me, not even acknowledging me with more than a grunt. He left as soon as he could.
The next day I called our cell phone provider and asked to check to see if he hadcalled OWs phone number recently. He had called her immediately after leaving our home the night before and talked to her for an hour. He couldn’t talk 2 words to me, but his reaction was not to try to reconcile with me, not to open up communication with me, but instead to run to her to get his ego stroked.
I was done. I hired the lawyer that day and told her to start the process.
The next time he was supposed to come spend time with our daughter he didn’t show up. So I throw all his stuff on the side porch and told him he wasn’t welcome back.
Good for you! What a badass.
StrawberryJellyfish, you rock! Ah, if only…..to toss his shit out……..should have done it the night I caught Jeffrey Dahmer ex-ho-worker coffee slut. Shit. I need to find a new more fitting name for her, too. ha! You are mighty!
Martha, instead of coffee klatch, you could call her coffee snatch. Just sayin….
Hurtnheart24, oh I like Coffee Snatch too!
But doesn’t it stop you in your tracks: It was uncomfortable for HIM. It truly shows you how hopeless these type of cheaters are. Not worried about YOU, Strawberry.
If we just extend that a little further: Yes, I shot you. But the blood from your gaping chest wound is making me woozy. Could you PLEASE control the bleeding so *I* am comfortable?
We had filed for divorce and despite three FOO and his skank’s house, he refused to leave our home.
One afternoon while he was in the garage, his phone left on the refrigerator wouldn’t stop ringing. I took it, answered it and Skanky promptly hung up. I then tossed it to STBX and told him, “Your bimbo keeps calling.”
I thought he was going to explode with rage. He replied, “What. Did. You. Just. Say?” I said, “Bimbo. Or would you prefer piece-of-shit-work-whore?”
He came after me and I stood my ground. “Go ahead. I’m sure she’ll bail you out of jail.”
He stopped in his tracks, turned around and said, “You’re not the boss of me.” Like he was five.
Even my four year old comes up with better one-liners…
TOWANDA!!!
ChutesandLadders, seriously? As in, verbatim, that which CL reports as one thing that characterizes cheaters?
What, had he been reading this blog, and he wanted to seize his moron moment?
I SEE this “you’re not the boss of me” all the time, but I have never heard an adult say that. Your lines were awesome, by the way.
Just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse, along comes another pathetic, boring caricature of a real person. They’re too stupid to know they’re a cliché … whom I would be thrilled to ignore except they’re not too stupid to destroy lives.
Speaking of destruction, ChumpChanged, “TOWANDA” took me a sec, but spot on and funny as hell!
The Whistle Stop Cafe.
The Slug spent weeks dilly dallying between D-Day and moving out insisting he couldn’t possibly find a place without a large loan from his father. He’s 48. But now that the Kraken was released he felt fine disappearing for hours and texting the Sluterus in front of me.
It was my home and I couldn’t sleep in it. The shock and cruelty was too much. I went to nap at my sister’s the Sunday 3 days after D Day and my BIL said he and my adult nephews were willing to go physically remove him from my house. I said no, not wanting the Popo involved but I accepted the stack of sturdy moving boxes. I accepted there would be no unicorn.
I came home, dropped the boxes at his feet and said, ‘Start getting the fuck out of my house.’ And went to lie down.
I should have let the MMA trained nephews confront him. I wish I was that strong.
“”I came home, dropped the boxes at his feet and said, ‘Start getting the fuck out of my house.’ And went to lie down.””
Nice! When I finally told my ex whore to get out I went onto the deck and must’ve smoked 10 cigarettes while she packed. It was a surreal feeling after 24 years..the grief hit me later but 2+ years laters I’m so much better off …yes I bet the MMA removal was very tempting ..!
Yes! Not just the look on his face but the idea that a large group of people were judging his sweet Schmoopie Love. He’s a lazy slug, so he would have agreed. But instead of Ultimate Fighting it would have been the Ultimate Narcissistic Injury.
I wish I had been more self preserving. But 17 days of limbo is better than 17 years more of that.
Two years on for me as well. Meh on this, not so meh on some other things. It’s a process.
Luz, glad to see your sweet and witty self back with CN. I agree, it is a process. xoxo
My husband used to think I played at. Tae Kwon Do. I just went and socialized and danced around acting tough. In a fit of RAGE when dealing with him one night, I told him to leave that it wasn’t safe for him to be near me. He said he wouldn’t leave because then I couldn’t see how much he’d changed and was over being an asshole. I then kicked him in the chest ( bruised 3 ribs) and when he fell forward, I right hooked him, split his lip and cracked his tooth. I was seated the whole time. He was gone the next day.
Well, you just became my hero! I love that!
My X made me feel violent, too. Seeing evidence of other women calling/texting and him saying, with patronizing patience, as if I was slow,
“You are crazy.”
AND…he would say that to women who called him….”Oh, she’s just crazy.” when I would say, calmly…Why is she calling you IN MY HOUSE? Why are playing Ann Landers to this bust stop tramp? Why?
Red rage clouding my mind…RED RUM! RED RUM!
Lol, Sylvia, about Red Rum!! My niece actually sent me a coffee mug with that on it when she visited the hotel in CO that they book/movie was based on. I was never a violent person either. But what he did to me threw me into a raging woman! Yeah, a woman gets angry and maybe violent when she finally realizes someone she loved with all her heart is a horrible person who has been using her for years and years. And then the betrayal. Yeah, getting really angry is normal and not crazy behavior.
Uh, not that I encourage violence….
Well, you did warn him that it wasn’t safe to be near you, but he just wouldn’t listen. And then you had no choice but to clock him…
You’re good, HurtnHeart24. No one here encourages violence; we might cheer it on when it befalls cheaters though.
I am so impressed! How satisfying. I would love to do something like that – just one painful, emasculating kick in the head. Good on you – powerful woman!
And, a good swift kick while sitting in a chair.
I’m gobsmacked. Would love to learn that move.
I know a producer of movies that may want to cast you.
You rock, man!
Actually I was sitting cross-legged toward the edge of the bed, he was standing in front of me…… He just wouldn’t stop poking this bear ( figuratively). ” This marriage isn’t over until I say it’s over!”… ” You are my wife you need to trust me!” Blah, blah, blah
I wish I knew that move when he came out my dark office in my dark locked house where he was hiding. I could have just said I was defending myself against an unknown intruder…the coward…
The final DDay was in 2014 when he was cycling through girlfriends and found his ‘Dream Girl” #18 and 19. I threw him out. He was coming to the house to get rid of his things I put outside. He had sores on his face and within weeks he was getting tested for HIV. That was it. I went for testing and had treatment. Luckily it was treatable yet due to multiple sex partners. That was my point of NO return and I filed.
He continues with multiple whores while living with his whore who hasn’t a clue even though I told her about the cycles.
I knew he never loved anyone.
We were 5 months into wreckonciliation and he texted me one day at work “come home and suck my cock”. I just lost my shit and crossed over into a whole new universe of hate and disgust. Took one month to line up ducks, then told him to GTFO.
Oh EUUWWWWW. What a nasty piece of work. Good for you Arlo.
?????
Ah, the romance. You must miss him. HA
I was thinking that, too–a real master in the art of seduction.
Right on par with dick pics if you ask me.
Not so much, no
In what universe, which plane of delusion, where??? — would anyone ever think this line was sexy, or that it would make someone want to come home and do this? I will never understand this kind of statement, or “sexting” or sending naked pictures on a phone or posting them on the internet. Most of the pic’s I have inadvertently seen were FAR from sexy. How much cellulite, or how many rolls of fat, tattoos, or multiple piercings does it take for folks to remember why underwear is a good thing and clothes can cover up a multitude of sins????
The man’s got game.
Lol
I was a really slow learner. Learned about serious lying 10 years into the marriage. Stayed. Learned about what appeared to be an emotional affair 20 years into the marriage. Stayed. Learned about a new emotional affair that was probably physical 28 years into the marriage. Spent 2 years in limbo because it had been 28 years of marriage. Finally told him I wanted a divorce but we could be civil and not actually do it for 19 months when he retired. About 3 weeks later on a Sunday afternoon, I saw an email that revealed he had been having a 30 year gay affair … kicked him out less than 24 hours later. He and every last shoe lace he owned was completely removed from the house within 4 days. Settlement shoved down his throat one week later. That pent up anger really gets things done when it’s unleashed!
Just when I think I’m the only one on the planet who has lived the “married to a bi guy” who cheats with both men and women because I “just don’t understand” that aspect of his sexuality…I read a post like yours and realize this disfunction is rampant in our society. First porn, adult night clubs, then dating sites, then prostitutes, then emotional relationships, then a new OW who “gets me like no one else on earth.” And we wives of 20-30 years are just trying to preserve what little assets are left, after so much money has been spent on “entertainment” and cover ups.
Wow, you described the exact same progression Cheese Fries went through: “First porn, adult night clubs, then dating sites, then prostitutes, then emotional relationships, then a new OW who “gets me like no one else on earth.””
He’s not gay or bi that I know of but the escalating behavior is the same.
Oh, Dixie Chump! My God! Us women who didn’t have gay husbands can see the progression. We did the same things you did. Stayed even after we saw the signs. But to find out your husband was gay. So sorry. Nothing against gay people. I get it, but I don’t get it. I’m not judging at all. It’s just a person living a lie for that long. And using another person to support that lie. It’s just so sad. I was curious to see if my ex was on Craigslist as so many people on here mentioned there exes were. My ex was the first to talk about Craigslist to find things to buy, so I wondered how he found out about it after all you mentioned it. I cannot believe how many so-called straight married men post pictures of their private parts for a hook-up with other men. It was shocking. These men, married to women, but looking for sex with other men. The whole thing is just so sad. I’m sorry this all happened to you, Dixie Chump.
Martha -‘These men, married to women, but looking for sex with other men.’
I am stunned how many people have ‘come out’ on this site, knowing in their gut they were married to a gay man and admit they were ‘Beards’. I raise my hand and I have no proof, but I’m sure the OW was his next beard. We’ve talked about this here before – but maybe time for a discussion on – ‘What makes you think your spouse is gay’.
I had many many signs. First, he never wanted sex from day one – that’s the biggest red flag of all, and I can give many other symptoms.
When I looked at a Gay Website about ‘wives being married to gay husbands’, (and this was my very first search!) it said, ‘If you’re on this site, your husband is probably gay.’
I have no proof of course, but a wife just knows things. And, it does help with the rejection thing but just a little. It’s a HORRIBLE thing to do to a heterosexual person – hiding who you really are. For over 3 decades.
Shechump, I don’t have proof but there were many incidents that made me question
X’s sexual orientation.
Some of the things he did that made me stop and wonder are that he noticed other Gay men, his defensiveness, the convincing Gay impersonation, certain body language,are just a few generalized behaviors. X became less homophobic when his brother came out and announced he was Gay.
Before X left I Googled to find out information on “Is my husband gay.” I read the same thing “if you’re on this site your husband is probably Gay.”
Interesting..,
I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he was.
Shechump, wow. 30 years. I’m so sorry for what happened to you. When we first got married, my ex turned into a different person. He never wanted sex or initiated it. I’d wear all these Victoria Secret nighties to bed and he’d just go to sleep. I remember being so sad. I eventually stopped wearing them and put on pj’s that were comfortable. I wondered, too, if he was gay or if he was already having an affair. It just didn’t make sense being newly married. But he’s had tons and tons of emotional affairs with women, got 100% naked lap dances from women, views porn, flirts with women, etc. I don’t think he’s gay, but I did wonder at one time if he was.
First Un Chump moment: STBX had told me about his “soul mate,” swore he broken it off, had been going to counseling with me. He was mowing the lawn and I was going to bring him a Gatorade. His phone was on the counter, I typed “Jennifer” into the search function and up popped all the emails from their secret accounts. I was stunned and sat on the floor. Don’t know for how long, but at some point I heard him bring the mower into the garage. I opened the door, held up his phone and said “you lying fuck,” and proceeded to pull the Gatorade bottles from the plastic sea-life killing thing and throw them at him, one at a time, hitting him every time. Then I got a ceramic piece he had given me and threw that on the ground at his feet, followed by the very nice Pilsner glasses I had recently bought for him. And I told him to leave.
I am not a violent person. I have never broken anything on purpose. But I accept that it is what happened at the time. (Kids did not see or hear.) I found glass shards in my garage for two years.
I wish I could say that was the end of my chumpdom, but I am still working towards freedom.
I’m not a violent person either, but for some reason betrayal and lying makes us need to throw and break things. I threw our wedding album at my exes back and I don’t regret it one bit. He deserved it and much, much more.
I saw a wedding cake knife at Goodwill today. And I wondered, has anybody ever stabbed their cheating spouse with one of those…? Seems fitting.
(I love that I can show how twisted my sense of humor has become on here.?)
I agree, Louisvilleflower, about how we can say what’s on our mind here and not be judged or think we are violent, crazy or twisted.
Yes, we are all “violent, crazy or twisted”, and I love us for it!!
The punishment for treason is terrible in that the traitor is hanged by the neck, then cut down alive, that his entrails are then taken out, and burned, while he is yet alive,” and “that his head is cut off, and that his body is then divided into four parts” Found in Google search on treason. Treason has always been regarded as the worst crime. We are pack animals, relying on our pack is a matter of life and death. Treason endangers the pack’s survival and deserves the harshest punishment. That’s why we have all these violent fantasies and even enjoy reading about the odd beating meted out by a chump. Not allowed but instinct tells us it’s right!
+100
Plastic sea life killing thing!? Your description. Funny! Bless you. Yea. Crime of passion.
And this made me laugh right away, too: “plastic sea-life killing thing.” I love CN people. So many people are just so damn witty. Every day I come here I laugh and then I go ugh…. poor chump….it’ll get better,
My moment of rebellion is still talked about by my friends. After the reconciliation attempt and 2nd move out. The 2nd move out he didn’t DIRECTLY move in with her again, just her brother. Our youngest son was in a LDR and the gal was supposed to come and visit. She cancelled at the last minute and it sent my son into a tailspin. Now Prince Charming has now idea that our son’s heart is broken. He comes over to get his car and asks when he can meet this chick. Son explains what happened and Prince Charming says ‘oh’. Now this was all taking place leading up to Valentines Day.
Something made me drive by Cinderella’s apartment and low and behold Prince Charming’s truck was there. I snapped. I drove home loaded my car and my oldest son’s car full of the totes that he had left behind on his second flight and went back. Now there were breakables in these totes along with framed photos of his parents. I unloaded the tote that had the breakables in it, walked up to the door and threw it down. The tote also banged into the door. And proceeded to unload both cars with my son’s help in a similar manner. Eldest son asked why we were leaving things at this apartment and I said ‘because your dad is here right now, and pointed at the truck, with his fucking girlfriend while your brother is hurting. And as far as I am concerned they both can go to hell”. Knocked on the door yelled “Special fucking delivery” and left.
The next day I get an email from him asking me not to leave his belongings at her home. If I wanted him to pick something up he would come by and get it. He was only hanging out with her because her brother had a date and wanted some privacy. Yeah right fucker and I was born yesterday.
Fast forward a couple of days and I am now sitting in a local stress treatment center with my youngest because he is suicidal again. Prince Charming wants to know what is going on and should he come? I told him no he had done enough damage by hanging out with Cinderella rather than attend to his son’s broken heart.
Went no/low contact. After he called his lawyer to restart the divorce proceedings all communications went through our lawyers. Even to the point of scheduling multiple times for him to come and get his shit from the house.
I’m sorry, lldodd60. I hope your son is feeling stronger now? These cheaters betray their children, too.
Tempest, I have noticed you always have your eye on the children’s welfare. I like that.
Knocked on the door yelled “Special fucking delivery” LMAO many times!
Oh, I like this one:
My wife’s family was planning a visit. We lived across the country from them. I knew something was wrong and had had numerous conversations with my wife about her allegedly-emotional-only affair with her OM.
So, I told her that I would not spend time with her family. While they visited, I’d be at a friend’s house 40 miles away. I told her she didn’t get to parade me around as the adoring husband while she was refusing to stop texting another man.
BOY, was she pissed about that!
And for me, it actually opened the floodgates for rebellion. While her family was visiting, they took an overnight trip to a tourist destination a few hours away. While they were gone, I actually went home, packed up my things, took all of the photos of MY family out of their frames, amd left a Dear Joan letter for her and her family to read upon their arrival back at our home.
DO IT!
You don’t have to be ready to make such a statement (my own statement lasted a month, before I moved back in briefly for “one last try” and then left her for good). But you MUST stick up for yourself. Your cheater doesn’t get to control the narrative of YOU. They are your decisions and you can stand by them as RIGHT FOR YOU, regardless of whether other people think they are the right decisions overall.
Yes! Yes! Be mighty and take a step towards freedom.
You were my inspiration to be mighty before I even knew you. 🙂
I love this, Free Vixen.
There is a Björk song called, “I Miss You.” It goes: “I miss you, but I haven’t met you yet.” I love that sentiment. There are people out there right now too who are thriving despite lives of fear and pain, and we are going to meet them and share moments of happiness and love. It gives me strength to know that others are being mighty and it is a source of inspiration to me too.
In fact, here’s a link to “I Miss You.”
Great song on so meany levels, in all of Bjork’s uniqueness.
On DDay #2 he started to tell me again as he did after DDay #1, that he was “increasingly unhappy in the marriage.” Since I had spent the last four years doing what he asked me to do to make sure he stayed “increasingly happy” in the marriage, like dropping what I was doing and greeting him at the door when he came home from work with my tail wagging like a damn dog, I wasn’t buying that line of bullshit that time around. I stuck my hand up in the classic “STOP” position and told him I wasn’t going to listen to that ever again. It still took me a couple of years to get all the way out but that was the first step in my eventual liberation. And that’s exactly what it was. Liberation.
It still astounds me how worried I was about his “happiness” without ever giving a thought to my own. I, too, twisted myself into a pretzel to make sure his so-called needs were met. And for what? To learn that he was still in contact with her because of their trauma bonding (Don’t even get me started on that one)! They lie, they cheat, they make excuses, all while we are furiously trying to keep our marriages together. Our love is used against us.
There were so many days leading up to my final decision that I truly cannot pinpoint the exact moment that I knew I was done. It is all a blur to me now. But I do remember when she showed up at a very public event because she just “happened” to be at that precise location when we arrived. I couldn’t do anything publicly, but when we were alone it was a different story. That was the last straw for me and the beginning of the end.
Me too about his happiness? Did Jeffrey Dahmer ever say to himself, “What will make my wife and kids happy?” Probably not once as his life is all about himself and what’s best for him. It’s nice to do stuff that makes me happy now. Even if that stuff I’m doing is spending an hour reading CL and CN. 🙂
@Martha: “Did Jeffrey Dahmer ever say to himself, “What will make my wife and kids happy?” ”
hahahahahahaha!! Even the suggestion that these entitled jackasses might consider someone else now send me into peals of laughter.
Tempest, they don’t as you know, but at least now we know. And you do know how much I love calling him Jeffrey Dahmer. I still need to program that into my contact info for him. haha. I just realized tonight that I need to work on a name for his slut. Slut is just not good enough. I can do better. I’ve been calling her coffee slut tonight. My ex and her met out for their secret before coffee dates at Tim Horton’s which is a big coffee place in my area. Hmmmm. I need to think. Something for a coffee and wine drinking slut. Something for someone with no morals. Someone who has moved from job to job, because she’s a bitch and hard to get along with. I have so much to work with! Gosh, this is fun. I’m so happy I asked you about Hannibal.
Martha -‘My ex and her met out for their secret before coffee dates at Tim Horton’s which is a big coffee place in my area.’
For others that don’t know – it’s bigger than Starbucks!
How about Horton’s got a Hore. Or, Just Horton. That’s bad enough.
She can be the Donut.
Or…Dough-Nut.
SheChump, you are brilliant! I did see the “ho” in Horton’s. I can work with that. Thank you!
I meant didn’t see the “ho” 🙂
Whore-ton
“Whore-ton”!!!! Brilliant, neverwouldimagined!! I think that’s it!!!
Whinny (as in horse-face) Yellow Tail (as in ‘piss poor piece of’) Whoreton.
Shorter form, Whinny Y Tail Whoreton.
Neigh! Maybe just Horse’s Ass.
My ex actually admitted, in a moment of honesty when trying to convince me to take him back, that he knew I had done tons of things to try to help him and the kids be happier, but it had never crossed his mind to do the same, for either me or our kids. We were together 14 years, he clearly considered himself entitled to such efforts from me, but not once did that possibility occur to him. Sicko.
That was the REAL him. It is fascinating, but in a horrid way, like an autopsy.
Just like my X saying to me:
I just don’t know if I am capable of the kind of love you had for me.
Martha, I laughed when I read:
“Did Jeffrey Dammer think about his wife and kids and what would make them happy..,”
Doing anything and wondering if it would make wife or family happy never entered my Jeffrey Dahmer’s mind.
🙂
I did the same thing. I spent 2 years going out of my way to make him feel loved and changed things the kids and I did in order to make sure he felt needed and included. I extended him the gift of grace and mercy after his first infidelity to only have him cheat on me again. When he started giving me the same lines as he had 2 years earlier, I finally realized his “unhappiness” had nothing to do with me. I deserved better and would rather take the risk of being single for the rest of my life than continue to be treated that way.
Once I cut things off, he stopped trying to wear a mask with me. Who he really is has not been pretty. On the plus side, seeing how truly disordered he is makes moving on a little easier. That and all the discoveries of lies and betrayals he hid from me for years…that helps me stay in the “point of no return”.
“I finally realized his “unhappiness” had nothing to do with me. I deserved better and would rather take the risk of being single for the rest of my life than continue to be treated that way.”
and this: ” he stopped trying to wear a mask with me. Who he really is has not been pretty. On the plus side, seeing how truly disordered he is makes moving on a little easier. That and all the discoveries of lies and betrayals he hid from me for years.”
My ex left me, but I agree with the above, too. His happiness has nothing to do with me. He’ll never be happy, because he’ll always be looking for fresh supply to fill his empty heart and life. Good riddance.
+1
My STBX walked out on me when I was 6 months pregnant. Then he tried to come back but I had conditions. You see he had left for a month 2 years earlier after dday1. He continued to play mind games with me for 4 months. I was still holding onto hope that he would choose the kids and me, but I refused to back down on my conditions. I told him he had to see a doctor, get individual counseling, and change his lifestyle (drinking and gambling). 4 months later when my daughter was 1 month old is when I found out about his 23 years old girlfriend (he is 45). That was the beginning of my finally letting go and began to grieve the death of our marriage. I got his house key and garage door opener, put all his clothes and other personal items in the garage, and I stopped making anything easy for him. I am civil and accommodating for him to see the kids but that is it.
Once again, what’s up with these so-called men who cheat on their pregnant wives?! My ex cheated on me when I was pregnant with our second child. Heck. Knowing who is he now, he probably was cheating in some capacity our entire marriage. You are mighty how you handled him, GetMeFree. I did the Pick Me Dance for another 15 years and I regret it. My ex didn’t want anything to do with me or our two kids for the longest time. I could have been set free years ago and could have easily moved back to my home state, because he just so wanted to be a swinging bachelor at that time and he was living the life of one for a few years. What a colossal waste of my time that “man” has been.
Martha – just focus on making the rest of your life fabulous. We can never get those years back. I, too, believe that my STBX was unfaithful more than I know and for much longer. I did the pick me dance for 2 years and I do regret that. I now have a third child who is a result of that wreckonciliation that will have to deal with this messed up situation. But…she is amazing and beautiful. There have been many times over the last 6 months that I thank God for her. She makes my other two kids and I smile and laugh every day.
Thanks, GetMeFree. Yeah, I’m working on getting a great life. It’s taking time, but I’m finally not depressed anymore, which I’m so thankful for. That’s wonderful you have another child who is a blessing to you and your other two kids. My kids are the best thing that has ever happen to my life. I’m thankful they are with me most of the time. I get to see them almost every night, and my ex is missing out on that because a selfish prick. However, looking back, he missed out on a lot of their lives, because of his job and his own selfish needs. Even when he was home, he was disengaged, so he never really cared to be with them and he missed out on a lot even though he was home. His loss, but I’m sure he doesn’t see it that way. He’s managed to paint our marriage as “unhappy” the last ten years, which they weren’t. He’s rewritten history and from what I understand about narcs, they believe their own lives, so he believes the history he has written. Oh, well. Take care, GetMeFree 🙂
Although I did a majority of every damn thing around the house, as well as work 50-60 hours per week and spend the last few years getting my BA degree, I will admit that I did not cater to his needs. This left me feeling like maybe that was why he had an affair. I don’t feel that way any longer. I have never been very good at cooking, I can’t sew, I’m not an arts & craft kind of person. And I couldn’t figure out that in a marriage where both people had the children and both people have full time jobs, why is one of them carrying most of the load for bill paying and day-to-day home maintenance. I still picked up his favorite cheese doodles or whatever from the store. I got him really good gifts. I was upbeat, friendly, sexy, loving….well shit, never mind. I did fucking pander to his needs. Shit. That pisses me off.
I hope frequent readers will indulge me here — most of you have heard this story, but it makes me feel great the more I tell it.
This is excerpted from the ‘full history’ document I prepared in anticipation of court proceedings — written in the third person, to focus as much on the actual facts as possible and removing any emotion, thought I can assure there was plenty:
UXworld] had accumulated and documented enough evidence of deceit and behavior destructive to the marriage that he planned on confronting [KK] during the morning of Wednesday January 27. His intent was to convince her to stay home from work, wait until their daughters had left for school, and spend the day hashing out the situation and coming to some agreement on what the next steps should be, in advance of a planned marriage counseling session scheduled for later that day.
A text thread early on the morning of Tuesday January 26 shows [KK] and [Carrot Singer] arranging to meet for sex at the marital home later that morning.
[UXworld] decided to stay home and confront her the same day, rather than wait until the next day.
After seeing in a later text exchange that [KK] would be leaving work and targeting approx. 10:30 am for an arrival home, [UXworld] left the house in his car and parked at a vantage point in the parking lot of the apartment complex (behind the marital home) where he could determine when she arrived.
[KK] pulled into the driveway at 10:42am and entered the house. [UXworld] waited for approx. 45 minutes, alternately driving by [street] and monitoring from various other vantage points, to see if [Carrot Singer] would show up. At approx. 11:30am, [UXworld] decided not to wait any longer, parked his car in the driveway, and entered the marital home.
After realizing that something was up, [KK] admitted that she was waiting for [Carrot Singer] to show up for sex. When asked why it was planned to take place in the family home, she replied, “because we have no place else to go.”
[UXworld] took her tablet and phone and said that they should wait outside together for [Carrot Singer] to show up. They waited in the breezeway for a while before going back into the house. Inside, they argued for some time about information that [UXworld] now admitted he knew about.
At some point, [UXworld] looked out the family room window and noticed a gray car drive by the home slowly, headed south on the street towards the dead end. He left the house and stood in the driveway to see who it was. This car turned around and parked. Very shortly thereafter, a white car turned on to [street] and drove slowly past the marital home. Based on pictures he had seen on Facebook, [UXworld] determined that the driver was [Carrot Singer].
The white car drove to the end of the street, pulled into the driveway of a home on the same side of the street, and parked. [UXworld] stood at the end of their driveway near the street and motioned for the white car to come back down the street. [KK] joined him there, and [UXworld] motioned several more times for the white car to come back down the street. The white car did not move. Finally, [UXworld] told [KK] that “he isn’t going to move” and said they should walk up the street towards him instead.
They walked up the street together until they reached midway, at which point the white car backed out of the driveway and slowly advanced toward them, coming to a stop in front of one of the homes. [Carrot Singer] opened the door and got out, staying at the open door.
[UXworld] said that he felt he had a right to say something to [Carrot Singer] about the situation; [Carrot Singer] replied that no, [UXworld] did not have a right to say anything to him. A few more sentences to this effect were spoken, at which point the following exchange occurred:
[Carrot Singer] (to [UXworld]): “Let me tell you, if I EVER find out that you put your hands on her again…”
[UXworld] (to [Carrot Singer]): “Hold on there, before you start beating your chest too hard…” (to [KK]): “Tell him who gave you the black eye.”
[KK] (to [UXworld]): “[J.R.].”
[UXworld] (to [KK]): “Don’t tell me. Tell him.”
[KK] (to [Carrot Singer]): “I got it from [J.R.].”
[Carrot Singer] indicated that he did not know that, and visibly expressed some disbelief. [UXworld] told [Carrot Singer] to take his car back down to their driveway so they could continue whatever was left of the conversation there. [Carrot Singer] did so, and [UXworld] and [KK] followed on foot.
At the driveway, [Carrot Singer] remarked that he didn’t have very much to say about what was transpiring. [UXworld] asked [Carrot Singer] about his wife and whether she knew what was going on; [Carrot Singer] affirmed that she did, and then closed by saying “there’s really not any more to say,” getting back into his car and driving away.
[UXworld] and [KK] then went back inside and continued their argument about the situation until approx. 2:30pm, in anticipation of their elder daughter coming home from school.
I seriously don’t know how you stayed so outwardly calm. It has been a long time since I’ve been in a fight that was not work related, (mid 20’s) but I think if I saw OW at my house I would have lost my shit and physically beat the whore right out of her. I know it was for the best, that we didn’t or don’t react with aggression. I think it is only the physical shock we are in that prevents us from doing this.
Who was J.R.?
J.R. was the BDSM Dom.
J.R.? I thought he was the guy on Dallas. 😉
Of course. You can tell KK that plenty of us on CN will beat her ass for free. She does not have to get naked for it.
😉
UxWorld, keep telling that story. Reading everything on this site is taking me forever and I often don’t read in chronological order. Mostly, it’s a brilliant and concrete example of document, document, document (I assume you’ve also included other important details that involve finances, the legal system, children, etc). At the least, allude to this post and similar others now and then, with links?
I’m still trying to figure out why KK went with you.
In any event, WOW. Fierce!
UXWorld,
I have followed with great interest your journey. Please do not ever stop telling your tales. It is so helpful for me, and I know there is someone out there reading who does not comment who is nodding his head in recognition of a skank-whore maneuver. KK is the worst. I get a buzzzz reading your story. I have no idea how you didn’t put your hands on that guy or KK. She seems so unstable. I can imagine you ordering her around; she must have been in shock. The worst of course is the end where y’all have to stop arguing because your child came home.
You are going to be happy again soon, and I can tell every day you are happier now. And, I’ll bet if you want to date again you’ll get lucky there too. Please stay safe, man.
When she told me she no longer loved me and was going to leave me and our daughter but needed to stay to “save some money”..I pick me danced for 3 weeks but after another weekend where she left on Friday and came home Sunday I finally figured it out and told her to get out immediately (her mother lived close by).. It was painful but I knew that I couldn’t live like that anymore..
After years of being controlled (wear this, not that; drink your coffee like this, not that; stop talking to my co-workers at my work party, your job is to shut up and look pretty; wear shorter skirts and higher heels; get breast implants; let me cum on your face — I can’t “love” you if you don’t meet my needs, on and on and on) —
I got all my beautiful long hair chopped off. From Lady Godiva to I Might Be a Lesbian hairstyles.
Fuck. You. Very. Much.
It was a huge and terrifying statement and the start of my unChumping. :))))
Oh Gawd, the long hair thing… I cut mine (shorter, not as bold as you) too in the aftermath of DDay#2. I love being able to have my hair be whatever length I want it to be. What a concept, eh?!
Yes, Beth. Imagine that — our value has NOTHING to do with the length of our hair.
These disordered assholes have NO CLUE.
Oh, yes, the hair obsession. My hair got very damaged from going platinum blonde and starting breaking off and all he could talk about was how he wanted me to have my long hair back. It really made me see how superficial he was. It made me wonder what he would have done if I got ill and lost all my hair, he probably would have been gone so fast my head would spin. These sick, disordered fucks are so selfish in every way! 🙁
Yep. He wanted me to go back to having long hair. I cut it after it got grabbed one night at work and the guy held onto me and punched me in the head several times until I was able to get loose. I got a concussion. He was “disappointed” that I cut it. I also have blonde hair. He decided after 20 years of marriage that I should dye it red. I told him no. He kept bringing it up. Finally I looked at him and said that I would dye my hair red when his grew back on his bald head. Idiot.
Lmao!!!! Good one, Annie!!! How funny, mine was bald, too. And I sometimes wish I had said something like that!! They have some nerve to complain about us!!! Not to mention his huge, nasty beer gut….that I never complained about because I loved him and didn’t judge him and criticize him, but his narcissistic “love” for me was never real. I know that now.
I didn’t mind his bald head. It looked good on him. But he minded his bald head and that was all the ammunition I needed.
Another blonde here. I love red hair. Cheater ex hated it. Guess what color I dyed my hair after the kids and I left? It was my very own f u to him
Good for you. I wear a uniform otherwise I think I might just go crazy.
Holy hell, never mind that you were injured and attacked and maybe felt safer having short hair. HE wanted you to have long hair, so never mind your feelings. ASSHOLE.
He showed concern early in my career when I would get injured. But not so much for the past 10 years. Just before DD#1 I came home and told him I was able to talk down this knife-wielding guy. His reply, “Okay.” The very first thing I did after DD#2 was change my beneficiary.
I like short hair on women. (I really don’t care mind you. It’s just a preference of mine.) Match Girl had very short light hair. The last bit of pain shopping I did she had posted a picture of herself and she had grown it long and dyed it dark.
What a beautiful comeback, Annie.
What is it about hair and these Freaks?
Mine said…”We” are taking your hair back natural.
Note Gavin DeBecker training…the forced teaming of WE. My hair…but We.
My hair is dark blonde, but I get it highlighted. I said, No, I am getting highlights. Nothing will change this. I will wear my hair how I like.
Control?
Mine was the opposite: CheaterX liked short hair, so I wore mine really short for many years. The second decision I made after finding out he was cheating with an old college friend (also married) was that I was going to grow my hair out. (The first decision was that I was going to divorce him.)
2 1/2 years post divorce: I’m happier than I ever thought possible being single in my 50s. And I have beautiful long hair.
Stradpunzel – This made me smile.
That’s awesome! I usually keep my hair long in the spring and summer and then cut it shorter in the cold months because it’s really thick and takes forever to dry when it’s long. Every damn year there was a huge pout fest when my hair was shorter than he liked. It’s so nice to do whatever the fuck I want with MY hair and not have to feel bad about it.
Oh I did see a pic his stripper gf posted on FB a few months ago showing off her new short hair cut. That made me laugh. Apparently she didn’t get the long hair memo.
I feel like my story is quite boring. Someone sent me an anonymous email with pictures of Narkles the Clown and the Flying Whore together. He was out of town. It was about 10 at night and I called a friend who would be up. Fortunately she doesn’t know the concept of hopium, RIC or pick me dancing. Her first question was are you sure? The pictures are pretty damn convincing. Her second question was can I recommend a lawyer? I consulted a lawyer, waited for him to come home, took the day off of work and confronted him, without showing him the evidence. I gave him 24 hours to tell the truth. He didn’t. I called my attorney and asked how soon can I file?
Not boring! Awesome! Fierce!
Remember, there are new and newish Chumps like I who often have NO IDEA what the hell we should be doing with these disordered wackadoos. It’s another universe. Or black hole.
Plus, giving someone 24 hours to tell the truth and following up the silence with a call to attorney? Definitely a moment of Chump Rebellion. (I must still be really naive on the “in my home” psychos. As I was reading, I expected that he would spill. I was thinking to myself, even the disordered would understand that the game was up on the truth front, and if anything, would be more inclined to talk in order to manipulate the narrative, and then, you.)
AllOutofKibble,
Not a word you type is boring. Never stop!
That is not a boring story. It’s a mighty story. I wish I had been so mighty and there wouldn’t have been a DD#2.
First off, can I say I’m envious of your judge? My STBX threatened me multiple times, once even to the point that he wished I’d get in a car crash as I left the house, after a screaming fest to my face about what a terrible person I was. The judge? She was like: Meh, people say shit like this during divorces. He gets to stay.
For me, the rebellion came after I had seen an initial lawyer. The lawyer, who said nothing of significance, just generic talk about how a divorce worked, suggested that I did not discuss the conversation with my STBX. And I relayed that last bit to my STBX. He went OFF THE HOOK. How DARE I not discuss this with him?!?! Omg, the punishment I received. I was so confused.
Then, it dawned on me that I could no longer treat him like he was on my side, because, he had just proven that he wasn’t. So, on my birthday, I hired the best attorney, in my opinion, and that very same night went to my first divorce support meeting. 24 days out from D-Day.
Mighty! (And are you out of danger from him?)
Welcome, Springy. You’ve been around for sometime, right? I hope you are grey rock with him. (Grey rock is the best alternative if you have kids under 18. If not, it’s 100 percent no-contact.)
I find it interesting that mine came BEFORE the major D-Day. At one point he started to come home later and later from his therapist appointments, completely drunk. I realized he had some issues with binge behavior and impulse control, and that he must be burdened by something that he is not telling me, so I told him he needs to sort himself out. Somehow, without knowing anything about 12-step programs at the time, I stumbled upon a common mantra and told him: I did nothing to cause this, I have no way of controlling it, and only you can help fix yourself. A month later, when it turned out that his compulsivity extended beyond alcohol to sexual behavior, I was ready to detach, instantly. Asked for a divorce within 3 minutes of finding out he had been sleeping around for most of our two-decade relationship.
my true liberation started when I found Chunp Lady (thanks to TwinsDad). My now ex and I were separated, but the hovering was beginning and my mind was way too colonized to have have maintained any semblance of mighty.
It was while reading “What keeps you Stuck” that the scales literally fell from my eyes.
It saved my life.
And I’m a squillion times more mighty now
I am such a chump. The end, when I found out about her lying about a hotel receipt. I went NC and started detaching. She had told me she wanted a separation and divorce 2 times each and I had spent almost a year dancing. One weekend she finally admitted to the affair. I immediately said I forgive you and then asked did she want a divorce still. She didn’t hesitate with “YES”. I then replied she needed to find a new place to stay. And I eventually told her to leave that day. By text. I was out driving around in a daze. Then a month later of me still dancing I notice the hotel charge on the credit card bill. I had filed for divorce at this point mainly for financial protection. I confronted her the next time I saw her. She said she had to get away from her parents for a little time. I believed it. Luckily, the day I saw it I requested the receipt from the credit card company. I forgot about it until one day I got a text from her admitting the hotel was for a “friend”. The credit card receipt came to me in the mail but she got to it before me. That was my breaking point. I then realized she was a liar and manipulator. I began to detach that day and went NC. Most importantly, I found Chumplady shortly thereafter and have been on the path to meh ever since.
I saw a hotel charge also on my ex whores bank statement..yet to this day she insists she never cheated. I wonder if she actually believes her own bullshit..even our daughter rolls her eyes at her crap
I got the I LYBINILWY speech one night as I was getting ready for work. He had been so horrible to me for many months before that. Then he said he had a girlfriend and that he was in love with her because she needed him. He then proceeded to tell me some of her problems, and ask me to think of some solutions. I think I was in shock at first because all I had running through my mind at that moment aswas “Say WHAT!” When he got to the she was his soul mate part, but how he wanted to go to MC to save our marriage, I started to get angry. For the first time, I saw his entitlement clearly, and realized that not only did he not love me, but I didn’t love him anymore either.
I went to work that night and made a list for myself to start to get my ducks in a row, starting with finishing nursing school, getting my license, and getting my kids and I away from his sorry ass. (I was about six weeks away from graduation.)
After that little conversation, I found him repulsive. I was done on every level….. could barely stand to be in the same room with him let alone sleep in the same bed. Me working nights, that separation was pretty easy to pull off. He didn’t like it, but….oh well. Eventually I moved into the basement because he wouldn’t move out of the bedroom.
We went to one MC session but when the therapist wouldn’t address the problem of schmoopie, I refused to go back. The guy actually had the nerve to say “We are not talking about that right now.” Cheater ex then went around telling everybody that I was a quitter. Of course he neglected to mention schmoopie. In my head it was “Yeah, right, whatever Dude, just do your thing and leave me alone so I can do what is needed to get me and my boys as far away from your nasty ass as possible!”
So many marriage counselors suck. Went through two with STBX before he quit because they were “picking on him” too much. After I filed and STBX refused to move, we went to a counselor to help us reach a visitation agreement and set some boundaries. That guy I loved! He said straight out that he considers infidelity to be both emotional and sexual abuse and that it made perfect sense that I didn’t want to live with my abuser.
No counseling could have saved my marriage, but I feel like I would have been empowered to end it a lot earlier if we had seen this guy first.
If I had some counselor tell me we are not discussing the affair partner I would just get up and walk out case closed what’s the point…
Once there is an affair partner Ive learned it’s just better to get the fuck out.
Mine has two parts of breaking the bonds of being a chump.
I had been suspicious for so long. He showed up at my house with armloads of gifts. I would have rather talked and spent time together.
He passed out on my couch, after trying to stay awake while I was talking to him. His eyes rolling back in his head while I was speaking. He had clearly been partying for days.
As I had worked, cleaned my house, took care of my pets, and the most debauchery I had gotten up to while he was away was substituting expresso for water in a cake mix.
I covered him up with a blanket as he lay on the couch. But then I felt my feet going out to his car. The door was unlocked. I saw his cell phone, unlocked. And there it was. Lots of them. The last one right before got to my house.
Ashley: Thanks a lot for not leaving me any cigarettes. I got a bad attitude. I fuck you so only you get to tell me what to do. I got this pussy here and it needs your dick.
You know how the world goes rubbery (as it sort of is now and I feel nauseated remembering) but I felt my legs running back into my house. I jerked that blanket off him and starting beating the shit out of him. HARD PUNCHES. Slapping. Kicking. I was out of control.
GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE YOU MOTHER FUCKER CHEATER.
He never fought back. He went to my garage and pretended he needed to fiddle with his car. He did not want to leave. He just took every blow. I still remember how thin he felt and the heat coming off his beautiful skin.
He said she was crazy, that it wasn’t what it seemed. He called her, left a voice message and said: You need to lose my number. Don’t ever call me again.
He told me this woman was a meth head, and he would not care if a group of men ran a train on her.
That she was lying and she was crazy and a liar.
I watched all this, suddenly strangely detached, and I realized how low this man had taken me, and how I felt like I was having a heart attack. I felt like death. I have never had a speeding ticket and he was bringing all these seedy creeps into my orbit.
The saddest, most miserable calm came over me, like a wash cloth over my brain. I went up to him, that face I loved, adored and I put my hands on his shoulders, very gently. I said: You have to leave. I cannot do this. This cannot be my life. I have been too loyal and good to you.
It took him a while longer. He just kept fiddling. I went back in the house. I heard his car start and I ran out on the porch. I waved good bye to him frantically. I know that sounds off, but I was not playing games. I was truly saying good bye to the greatest love/obsession of my life.
He backed up on the road and shouted: But this is not goodbye forever? Is it babe? Is it not good bye forever? And I said nothing, the tears rolling and I went back inside MY house. I am not sure what I did then. I think shock has erased it.
He later, as a last ditch effort, maybe 2 weeks later, came to my mother’s house. I found the email the other day.
“I still love you. I am coming there.”
My mother, as supportive as rotten cardboard and as kind as a wolverine, said…get him out of my driveway. He could not get past her locked gate.
I went out and he reached through the gate (after handing me a large pack of dog treats) and grabbed my hand.
He said, “Let’s stand here all night.” It was about 5pm.
I said, sobbing: You cheated. (Still hoping it was not true).
He said, Yes, I did get a couple of blow jobs. But that is all! (Ridiculous).
I felt the world shift again, and I said, You did? (Because he, of course, had said the texts were the ramblings of a crazy woman). And I did not want to believe.
He said, Yeah, I did.
I jerked my hand away and walked down the long driveway, sobbing.
He yelled out, “YOU DROVE ME TO IT.”
I ran back to the gate and said, very quietly, “You are a fool”. I remember saying that. We made very direct eye contact. He knew how much I loved him. I would have given him a blow job, anyday, anytime…I LOVED giving him blow jobs. I loved being in bed with him, period.
He said, “I know”.
And I never saw him again. He has tried, with emails and some phone calls, meaningless low effort nothings, alternated with acting like nothing happened, to reestablish contact.
I did respond back one time: What would we talk about? Her pussy and your dick?
He eventually stopped trying except that he did call me last week after a silence. 2.5 months
He made the comments how “he did not know how to fix this?”, “was there anything he could do to make it up to me?” and “there sure is nothing else out there, is there babe?”
And I still….still…would give my little pinkie for this not to be true. For his character to not be so stinky and rotten and slippery and entitled and deceitful and a guaranteed heartbreak.
Did I stop being a chump? Yes. I believe he thought I would accept his cheating and wildness because so many women have, due to his good looks, charisma and ability to make you feel (at times) so good.
But I still miss him. I can’t wait for this to pass. He did not break my heart. He took an M-16 and blew it to Casablanca.
I pray for God to have mercy on me and take away this pain. And that is not dramatics. It worries me…..the staying power of this pain. He just sits in the corner, always with me, this Grief. I think the death of my dog…LOSS…have reignited it more.
But, I am not a chump anymore.
You are so strong! To be in pain and live with it! I tried so many times to soothe myself by allowing him back into my orbit.
Stay strong, Sylvia is Sad! You won’t always be sad. You will have to look hard to find things that make you happy, but I promise happiness is out there!
❤️
Excellent post, Sylvia.
I hope you will get past all your pain and arrive at Meh very soon.
((hugs))
I love your username, GetOut!
Me too. It makes me smile.
Stay strong ..this community here is amazing this site saved my sanity. It truly did. Trust that he sucks and you deserve SO much better.
You gems responding and validating me is like treasure to me. A cliche…but no one else understands.
I believe without my friends here…I think we are friends….I would have backslided.
Sometimes the pain is so huge, I do knock myself out with Benadryl at night. I know this Is foolish…but less harmful than contact. He is like Rasputin.
Thank you…if you knew how much your kindness helped….I cling to it. I dont care if it sounds pathetic. Truth is my tonic. Not looking “Aloof or Cool”. This type of pain ushers ego right out the back door.
No one knows this pain unless you’ve experienced it. Believe me you will survive it and you will be SO much stronger. I have boundaries and limits now I never knew I had or realized the importance of. Just take it one day at a time. I actually went to the doctor and got some low dosage Xanax for the first several months as I was literally running on no sleep. That and sometimes melatonin helped me as well as another anti depressant (I think Celexa) as I was literally losing my mind. I got through that shit and you will too. Stay No Contact as that is the key to healing. I haven’t talked to or emailed or texted or social media stalked etc for over a year now I’ve actually lost track, I used to keep a journal of how many days ..you just slowly detach and finally they don’t have your heart anymore. It’s an AMAZING feeling. Hang in there
We’ve been through your hell and you have ALL of our love and support. Whatever we can do to help you walk out of hell, we’ll do it. I can tell from your posts how much love you had for this person. Still do. We’re here to listen and hold your hand while you vomit it all back up. Everyone here did it for me and we are glad to do it for you. I know you can do this. You are mighty.
Sunny, thats the terrible rub. I love him to bits. He did it for me. But there is no cure for it. I will not subject myself to his disordered mind ever again.
Thank you.
Rasputin is an awesome cheater name!
NC, Sylvia, NC. You just need to detox. It gets better. Hang in there.
You need to He-tox!!!
I just signed up for two MEET UPS.
1) Singles meet at a swanky Brazilian steak house
2) Foraging for local edibles in the woods.
*There may be action without happiness but there is no happiness without action.*
He can go straight to hell.
Sounds like fun!
Sylvia, you have done the right thing by cutting this man out of your life. The pain hurts like nothing I’ve ever felt before, and for over a hear and a half I felt like there was a heavy rock in my chest. In the very beginning, the grief was so bad I felt like I’d lost my legs. Really, it was so odd! I kept wondering why I would feel that way, until I came to the realization that I was having to “learn to walk” into a different life that I never anticipated. I can assure you the pain will get better. The longing for him…that could go on for awhile. But you are doing the right thing, you are loving yourself more than you love him. You are protecting yourself from further harm, and believe me, this man would harm you again if you let him.
Yes. I feel sort of paralyzed and lost many times. Just like that.
But…he is dangerous. He will smash my heart as careless as a toddler throws a toy.
Sylvia, i still love and miss the guy i fell in love with and married. I probably always will but i pushed those memories way inside and deal with the low life cheater lying loser asshole i divorced. I devoted my life to him and our family for 27 years to be tossed aside for some sex slave whore with money. But he destroyed our life and continues to be very nasty and negative like an angry old bear having its foot stuck in a trap spitting and hissing how his life sucks, hes in terrible pain and why cant an asteroid jit the planet and kill everyone. Not the same guy i married. His lies and bullshit are incredable. I stopped listening long ago. The last three years trying to get untangled is more than difficult. I feel your pain i still cry sometimes for what was and what i expected to happen. Fuck him and all like him. I hope his physical pain increases that only death would give him relief. Him listening to that screaming old penis will be his ultimate downfall. Serves him right bastard. My first un chump moment was when he was sleeping three years ago and i packed his bag and when his asked where his stuff was i said in your car leave. He did right into whore juices arms. The second was when i found photos of whores in my house in my bed and he swore on his xhildrens lives their was noone other than whore juice there were at least two others and all in my house in my bed while i was at work hes entertaining and then yelling at me he cant get any work done for constant interuptions. Yes whores in my bed! Lied to my face over and over he would never bring anyone home he wasnt that kind of person how could i ever think that hes a good guy. Excuse me i had to barf. He doesnt know i know but i printed out the evidence and saved them to throw in his face when i move. That will be a glorious day! When i found those photos i lost every ounce of respect care everything for him didnt have much left at that point anyway and now i feel nothing for him. He is nothing. Not at meh but a whole lot closer. I will let him and every memory i have of him just disapate and blow away. Big hug sylvia. You got this!
You expressed what we all feel Kar Marie.
Thanks peaky sometimes my words dont come out to bad.
And I am amazed….IN AWE of strength after what he has done. He is Mr. Shit All Over You and dare you to complain.
Do you think one day he will lose it, ignore some whore’s “safe word” and just beat her to death? Violence is his turn on…is it that far off the mark?
Apparently he loves to beat wemen with belts and stuff, tie them up degrade them with words and actions for sex. Says its the only way he can get off now, what happens when that gets boring, cutting, choking, death. I dont know and i dont wanna know. He beat on his first wife if she pushed his buttons and she did, hes beat on the whore a few times. Me never but im not a button pusher and i dont play games as in both of them any attention is good attention as long as he paid attention to them even them pushing his anger to the max. Me he never laid a hand on me but if i pushed his buttons im sure he would. Mostly the violence is sex but as he getting older and his body hurts more its anger 24/7. And yes that anger if pushed far enough it leads to violence. Now i know why he never touched the kids when anger at them. He was afraid hed lose control. Me soon as this house closes i go no contact and disappear i never want to see hear or hear about that motherfucker again. He is dead to me he is nothing.
And aside from your sanity, I believe it is paramount for YOUR SAFETY.
If you look on CL, there are some men on there that are into that Bondage and Dominant/Servant role playing and their ads read as pure evil.
Your ex has a dark energy of evil. When you move, go underground and never tell him where you are. Someone’s libido being linking to someone being helpless and in pain in not that far away from a serial killer.
Kar Marie-I hate that fucker. “I swear on my kids life” he is a stupid motherfucker. Swear up and down it never happened. And it did. I don’t care what they are called (sociopath, narco, whatever) they know right from wrong, they know they are lying. It rolls so easy out of their lying holes. Not a second thought about it. The only good thing that came out of finding those pics is that you know, unequivocally, he cannot be trusted with anything at anytime. There is absolutely nothing to work with even if you had the desire to do so. It’s beyond dead. Whorefucking slave psycho bitch ass prick.
Love your post ex. He is nothing to me now nothing. I hope all of us gets to that point. Swears on the kids lives and lies guess they are nothing to the fuckwit either. I used to wish him well for the kids sake. Not anymore. Hes destroyed his relationship with them to and im sure he would fuck them over if given half the chance. Fuck him.
That right there is poetic and beautiful.
Wishing you peace and joy Sylvia. You are on the right road, just keep walking and you’ll get past this really ugly spot.
You can do this (you ARE doing this!) and we are all here for you!! The pain will go away eventually. I promise you! Stay no contact like everyone is saying. Don’t stalk him on social media as that will slow down your healing. Stick with us here at CL and CN. CL and my chump pals saved my life. I spent hours and hours and hours here. Reading EVERYTHING. Trying my best to do what everyone else who went before me did. It’s hard! We all know. But the pain is finite. It truly is. Just a few months ago I still was in deep pain. Now the pain and aching brain are gone. The heaviness is gone. I still cry once in a while, but it has nothing to do with my ex anymore. I cry because I’m afraid or overwhelmed or something else. I won’t shed one more tear for that cheating, lying jackass. Someday you will be like me at CN, trying to help other. You got this, girl. We are cheering you on!!
I take one step forward and four back. I hate Fridays. I miss having someone to spend time with. It breaks my heart.
But at least I dont contact him.
My little victory.?
Yeah, I used to hate Friday’s too in the beginning. Friday at work was always like, “It’s Friday!! Weekend is here!” When you don’t have that to look forward to, it sucks in the beginning. But I like my weekends now, even when the kids are with their dad. It’ll get better! I promise. Hang out with us at CN if you get bored. 🙂 It truly was so great to hear everyone else stories and all the “me too!” moments when I read someone else’s story or they read mine. If you need to hang out with people, I’ve joined Meet-up. com. I have yet to go on any outings, because I just haven’t felt like it yet. But I will someday. It’s not a dating sight. It’s a sight where you can hangout with people with the same interests as you. (((HUGS))) to you. It WILL get better.
Let me second the recommendation for meetup.com. And definitely put the app on your phone. It has saved my sanity. PreyingMantis blew up my social circle on the way out; I’ve had to rebuild my circle of friends like crazy. Seeing as how PM *slept* with so many of them, ewwwww ICK! So they weren’t really ever “real” friends, but whatever. There’s a meetup for every interest possible, or start your own. Great way to channel your energy into something new and positive.
Your ex slept with your “friends.” Eww is right! I need to get my butt in gear and start going to these Meet-ups!
Come hang with me sylvia. We can have a blast!
I would!!!
🙂
🙂
🙂
It’s over two years for me and I still hate weekends. Coworkers are bewildered when I meet their “yay! It’s Friday!” with a groan. They can’t fathom not loving time off.
Yes…I am watching The Crazies AND working from home (I work from home) so at least I am making money. I can work any hours I like. My dogs are here. They are having fun with some new toys.
The highlight of the night will be…. real (stove top) buttered popcorn and a Red Box? Maybe whip up some peanut butter cookies. Take my dogs on a night time adventure walk.
But it is better than being with a cheating liar. Right???
WhichWayDidSheGo-
I was actually worried about you. I could not focus on it fully because of my dog, but I sensed real despair vibing through your emails. Lots of “I don’t care” vibes.
Are you feeling better? Are you ok?
Friday used to be my favorite day too. Until Friday turned to d-day and then it just triggered me for two months. The last Friday was 10 weeks and the first Friday I didn’t have an anxiety attack. But today is 11 weeks and he’s moving out tomorrow to live with the whoremat so I’m not in a great place. Spending all my time alone is going to be awful. I work from home too. And I spent the entire 10 years we were together loving him and being with him so I only have a couple of friends and they are both married with babies. I’m just a sad chump cheated and left behind to pick up the pieces.
Sad Shelby–you are rightfully sad. For 11 weeks, you’ve had before your eyes the way things used to be, the person you thought he was. But post-infidelity is like a Penn & Teller show–things are not the way they seem. There will be no rabbit pulled out of the hat. Having been sawed in half, you will not emerge whole. Once sewed in half, you can be sewed back together, but will have those scars, those memories. There is no return to what things were. And a saw is a saw; he is who you now see him to be. The surgery is long, the recovery long and slow.
You need help; get it anywhere you can. If your friends have babies, go hang out at public places until you can cultivate some new friends. Sometimes just being surrounded by people is helpful to keep even a sliver of connection. Go to the Forums (top right on this page)–Private: General will get you the most support when you need it. When fucktard leaves tomorrow, can you go to a friend’s house? Don’t watch him leave. Don’t return to the house immediately. Distract yourself as best you can. Go pet rabbits at the pet store. The evening will be lonely; call a friend if one can’t sit with you. Hugs!
What an overdramatic twerp. “I know! I’ll demand we stay standing at a gate, holding hands all night! That will make her forget the cheating!”
Sylvia, you have a real way with words and expressing your feelings. Thanks for sharing your story and insights here on CL. And I used to walk home crying on Fridays. It was so hard to leave work knowing that I was alone and that my husband whom I still loved was with his girlfriend. Thankfully this gets better with time. All of it. You are going to be okay; your strength comes through your writing. And your highlight of popcorn, a movie and maybe cookies sounds like my kind of weekend plans. Have you tried coconut oil as the oil for your popcorn? Since trying it that way, I’ve become a convert. (It’s actually what made me start doing stovetop popcorn! So good!)
I certainly envy the people at CN who bailed within days or just a few weeks. I admit that my cheater started in earnest in January 2013 and I didn’t file until August 2013. Then between him coming home several times for false reconciliations and my health troubles, my divorce wasn’t final until March 2015! A lot of wasted time (if you don’t count the sham marriage of nearly 42 years) for me. He and Schmoopie helped to drag it out by shooting down every proposal I sent to settle. Obviously they wanted everything I had. I suppose I was supposed to live in a box! But I digress, like I said, I just wish I had found CL a little sooner and filed for divorce right then and there!
Your out now, and that’s what really matters. Take heart, Roberta. I feel like I wasted a lot of time, too.
Oops *you’re
Mine came about during the month following our decision to divorce which I’d initiated because he’d been a shithead for several months prior. We were very amicable – sad but amicable – because “this was for the best”, “he loved me but wasn’t in love with me anymore”, “we’d stay friends and go to each other’s weddings when we remarried”, “we’d share everything fairly”. We were also amicable during those first few weeks because neither of us had had an affair – or so I thought.
Then he made a really, really stupid mistake. One night sitting on the couch he says, “now that we’re divorcing you can tell me the truth – that you had an affair with S a few years back.” S was the friend of a friend and when we met about 10 years ago. I didn’t realize at first that he was flirting with me because we always saw him in a couples setting with his wife. The day that he made it clear that he was looking for something else I told my ex. For me that was the end of the story. My ex, however, built up another story in his head that he preciously kept over 10 years. When he said that I KNEW, really and truly KNEW, that he had cheated (and was legitimizing his own cheating by believing for years that I had already cheated) and that it was only a matter of time before I found proof.
That incident and the proof (which I found a few days later) were all I needed to take off the gloves. While we continued to live in the same house, I dropped my ex like a hot potato and got on his back about moving our divorce forward as quick as possible. No more chats on the couch, No more running or cycling together. No more doing him favors. No more taking care of everything in the house – for that I set up a rotating schedule for cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping … that he didn’t like one bit. No more sharing our thoughts. Basically I stopped all contact outside of the house and even then I would only deal with him for essential matters. He didn’t know what hit him – couldn’t figure out that his lack of honesty killed any chance of me staying a chump, kept saying that he thought we would end this all much more slowly (ah yes, cake, delicious, must eat slowly and savor every last bite).
Best thing that ever happened to me was his dishonesty – that really opened my eyes about the man I’d really been married to for 20 years.
My ex wife of 24 years said while she was dumping me for her AP “I don’t think you ever got over (my girlfriend before we got together)”…24 YEARS AGO!! I hadn’t even thought of her! You can’t reason with these twat waffles…better to shut that shit down immediately. Your head will fall off as you foolishly try to explain yourself as they sit there with that cheater smirk
“cheater smirk”. Yeah, we all know what that looks like. Before D-Day, my ex had changed (again.) Just acting differently. Couldn’t put my finger on it, but something was off. I vividly remember him sitting at the dinner table with the kids and I. He had what I’ll now call the cheater smirk on. He sat there after dinner with the cheater smirk on and he was just shaking the small bottle of hot sauce back and forth, looking dreamily. I wouldn’t be surprised that was the day he met his before work coffee slut out and he found out she was getting a divorce (yay!! source of supply is free from that damn husband!!). And he had that cheater smirk on until D-Day when he got busted.
Martha, he is just old fashioned down right cruel and vicious. I have read all of your posts about this aberration.
When I say this…I mean it….you were delivered. I dont think you have seen the depths of his depravity. He must need a chart to keep track of his lies.
Thank you, Sylvia, for reading my posts. It’s so cathartic to tell my story and be validated the he truly is bad news. I also hope my story will help someone else, as others stories have help me so much! I truly had a “a-ha” moment when I was reading Renee’s post yesterday. She said she isn’t divorced, but delivered. I just loved that! I do feel delivered even though this has been the hardest, scariest, most painful thing I’ve been through in my life. It is soooooooo wonderful not living with this lying cheater anymore. He made me feel so bad about myself all these years. It was all subtle abuse that I was experiencing, but I had no idea I was in an emotionally abusive relationship until I was out of it and got out of the fog. I miss having someone to do things with and someone to talk to about my day, but I have my pals at CN. Everyone has been such a blessing to me. And also I get lots of laughs which is a great thing too. Where else can we say the things we say and get away with it!! 🙂 Take care. Watch a funny movie tonight. Distract yourself. I watched a lot of Netflix in the beginning when my kids first went to their dads for the weekend. Anything to distract myself! Hugs.
Aack! Mine had a before work coffee slut, too! He told me he had to get into work early, and I was actually proud of him.
That slimy lowlife would visit her @ 7 every morning and not go into work until 9. I was none the wiser for a long time.
THEY SUCK!!!!!!!!
NeverwouldIimagined……wow. They are all the same. How can this be? My ex thinks he’s special and perfect just like his mommy has told him his entire life up until the last time I heard her utter it and he was 45 years old at the time. My ex said to me, “I think I have the perfect personality to be in a relationship with.” If they were so perfect, then why are they so horrible? Yes, the suck and we were chumps! I hope they choke on their next cup of coffee. 🙂
Same here. And coffee every morning with his good friend Dave. Yeah right, Dave? Don’t you mean cum guzzling cock sucker?
OMG, you guys make me wonder. . . Shithead went to work an hour early all the time! To jobs he “hated”! Hmmm.
But, whatever. He’s gone, I’m seeing Meh on the horizon – he’s Senior Slut’s problem now!
Good for you, geekmom. Senior Slut deserves your cheater.
the day after dday, he ran away from home (34 year marriage) leaving behind all his keys, credit cards and phone but with a shitload of money he had stashed. Came back to town two weeks later, wanted his stuff back. NO. Wanted to reconcile. NO. Got mad, wanted to talk about the ow. NO. told him she wasn’t important to anyone but him. No kibbles for you. Went NC after telling him to give it up NOBODY CARED ABOUT HIM ANYMORE. Realized later that sentence pissed him off more than anything as narcs hate to be ignored. 1.5 years out with a lifetime NC order. Laid down boundaries with the kids he used to manipulate me and stuck to them. I feel like the soup nazi from Seinfeld…NO KIBBLES FOR YOU!!
You are a goddess. My heroine. Amazing.
Awesome!! Major mightiness.
Newdaydawning, the strength of women like you! Amazing!
Two moments stand out in my mind:
First, on Eater afternoon DD, when 13-yr old daughter got a phone call from her school friend asking why Big Chief Dumb Fuck was roller blading around the lake holding hands with a woman who was most definitely not daughter’s mother, I blew a gasket — dumped the $70 crown roast of pork that was to be our Easter dinner in the trash, bundled up the tablecloth WITH all the china, wine glasses, silverware, floral centerpiece and dumped that in as well, locked all the doors (he never carried a house key) and sent him a text telling him never to come home again, he was busted. Then daughter and I went out for Chinese…
And second, a month later after BCDF hds moved into his own apartment to continue seeing the Twatwaffle, we were negotiating financials. I agreed to keep him on my employer-provided healthcare plan until the divorce on one condition: he had to get a vasectomy in the next ninety days, before open enrollment ad new plan years. Otherwise, I’d drop him like a hot potato. I had no intention of sharing child support with a Twatwaffle infant.
He snipped, because he was too cheap to pay for his own insurance, and she was apparently pissed as hell because he neglected to tell her before the deed.
“dumped the $70 crown roast of pork that was to be our Easter dinner in the trash, bundled up the tablecloth WITH all the china, wine glasses, silverware, floral centerpiece and dumped that in as well, locked all the doors (he never carried a house key) and sent him a text telling him never to come home again, he was busted.”
Best. Story. Ever.!!!
That was great…and the Vas to prevent Twatwaffle progeny!
Hahaha, awesome!
I don’t know which part is better–the Easter dinner disposal or the vasectomy.
Vasectomy gets my vote. A permanent consequence that he chose!
I love it that you demanded the vasectomy! That was ingenious, really. I hope it was painful, and I’m happy it pissed off his semen receptacle. Bonus!!
Mine used the fact he’d been snipped as one of his “selling points” in his hookup correspondence. But he always misspelled “vasectomy!” Ass.
You are AMAZING! Some women are so might and I look up to women like you. Thank you for sharing your story.
MN moved on…RESPECT!!
Gotta say that Big Chief Dumb Fuck is by far my favorite name for a cheater.
I knew immediately I had nothing to work with but it still took 2 weeks after d-day for me to file. I live in Florida, a no-fault state and I wanted to do a Simple Dissolution of Marriage which does not involve lawyers. We didn’t have kids or property together just a small bit of money in a joint savings account which we divided. I figured I’d better file quick while she is still in that reputation management mode and before she starts thinking about what she can take from me. She fell for it. The whole thing took about 2 months before it was finalized. To her credit though I must say she was never greedy in a monetary way. Just in all the other ways.
I wish I can say it felt good but it was quite the opposite – a nuclear detonation indeed. I had to put the bullet in the marriage. I wanted to say that it was like putting down your dog as a last act of love and mercy. But I don’t want to insult dogs. Dogs are loyal, loving, and kind. They’re there with you faithfully till the end. They are morally superior to a cheater.
You’re right; they delivered a fatal wound to the marriage, and it is often up to us to “put the bullet in it” to prevent further suffering. I wrote to mine at one point when he was still asking to come home that “this marriage needs a mercy killing.”
It was only you that needed the mercy, Tempest… He needed much worse
I told mine he had murdered our marriage and was going to help me bury the body.
I remember telling mine that she had dropped a nuclear bomb on the whole family. This was on Christmas Eve as we were coming back home from her sister’s place. The kids were inside watching and listening to us as she picked a fight with me about who had done more gift shopping. It was just incredible. I’m still in shock.
Other posters have mentioned having to put a bullet in their marriage. It’s really not quite that easy for most it appears. The cheater does something like stab the marriage in the back. Then we have to come along and put a bullet in the zombie marriage because unless they do the perfect divorce (and they never do) we have to empty the clip into the damn thing to make sure it’s dead.
I say nuke it from orbit; it’s the only way to be sure.
Michael,
You are not alone. I had to put the bullet in mine as well. Even though the spouse cheated and wanted the divorce, i’m the one that hired the lawyer and filed. I lost 1/2 of everything in a no fault state.
Michael, so sorry. Yes dogs are more faithful than a spouse. It’s tough to imagine, but it’s true (I say this now as my male dog is hyped up and looking to hump my leg again and again.) ha
It’s hard to admit, but I’ve been a super-chumpy chump. 3 D-Days in 5 months (because he kept pleading with me to let him stay, he would give her up, and after 24 yrs of marriage, I was invested in making this work!). The 3rd D-Day, after finding yet another secret email account on his phone, I finally kicked him out, and he left saying he’d use the time to figure out what he wanted (the OWhore of 3 years, or our 24 yr marriage). Well, he used the time to solidify his relationship with OWhore, while telling ME he hadn’t given up hope on our marriage. I’ve been a SAHM for 18 years, and have been with him since I was 13, so I pick-me danced and toked on Hopium for the last 6 months, waiting for him to “come out of the fog”. I started reading CL a few months ago, and this blog has saved my sanity and finally given me a backbone! 3 weeks ago when he said once again that he didn’t want to lose me, but wasn’t going to leave the OWhore, I filed the next day and handed him the stipulation paperwork at work that afternoon. He looked surprised and said he didn’t think I would file that quickly. I felt glimmers of mightiness then, and thanks to CL, I know that as hard as this is, I have a wonderful, cheater-free life ahead of me!
“and he left saying he’d use the time to figure out what he wanted”
Oh, so his majesty gets to decide what *he’s* going to do. And isn’t “what you want” something you are supposed to have figured before you got married?! And he really thought you would hang around, while he made his decision which one of you to have sex with, his wife or the OW? Nice. Gee, I wonder why it’s a choice to begin with and the decision isn’t clear. Any man who is ambivalent about being with me or not, deserves to have my foot booting his ass to the curb. You are his wife of 24 years he made vows you and after all this time you invested in the marriage, the jackass isn’t sure who he wants to be with. I’m glad you made his choice easier and filed. He didn’t think you’d be strong enough to do so and you’d tolerate his shit. You are mighty!
Perhaps we could round these guys up and send them to a polygamous encampment out in the desert. I mean, WTF?
He doesn’t want to lose you but he’s not giving up the OW? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?
PS Mine didn’t actually have other real humans. He had prostitutes, strangers, and sex-trafficked teens. But he refused to give them up.
Mine actually said “I wish I could live here and date her.” He KNOWS it is all going to blow up in his face. But he just can’t resist the whoremat. So good riddance. Hopefully it blows up next week and he realizes what an ass he was! Not likely but I can still dream it!
EyesOpenNow, welcome! It’s all about cake. Good for you for filing. He obviously doesn’t know your worth and isn’t the man you thought he was.
I never in a million years thought a person would be so entitled and corrupt as to keep BOTH the spouse and the AP. Mine did this too. Disgusting, disordered, and downright pathological.
I told him one of us had to do the right thing, and it obviously wasn’t going to be him. They suck!
Eyesopennow,
Good for you. It’s hard to imagine that life goes on, but it does. I’m so glad you found Chump Lady. I’m glad we all found her. I would still be divorced if I hadn’t found her, but I wouldn’t be healthy. I would be wondering if I made the right decision or what I could have done differently so he wouldn’t have cheated. Chump Nation made be understand that I not only made the right decision, I made the only decision that was within my power to make. It also gave me the understanding that I did nothing to make him betray me and that I am worth so much more. So are you. We’re all the same here and welcome to our tribe.
I’m so proud of you, Eyeswideopen. You deserve a metal of Mightiness!
My first moment of rebellion came when I insisted that ex remove me from our joint accounts (I had filled out the necessary paperwork, he was slow to do so). You see, my ex had a judgment against him and the only reason the accounts weren’t seized was because I was on them. Strike one.
The second came when I saw them in the mall and hammered my ex with questions, the main one being “WHY ARE YOU HOLDING UP THE DIVORCE?” That got things moving. Mission accomplished.
My best moment arrived last weekend. I received news my ex is marrying his AP and has moved her into the house I lived in for 20+ years. I laughed. Loud and long. You see there is also a lien on the house (his name only thank goodness) substantial enough that he cannot repay or have it removed. But! He certainly makes enough that they could have gotten another place and rented out our old house. His reluctance to do so combined with his sad follow me around like a puppy dog behavior when he sees me speaks volumes. Hope she’s ready to live with my ghost, because he still is. And he deserves it.
No contact and moving on anyway you can IS the best rebellion…
It’s mind-boggling how many cheaters I read about on here move their AP into the home they used to share with their spouse! I just keep thinking, how do the neighbors react?? My neighbors all know what he did and are on my side, and we’ve only lived here 4 years. I can’t imagine him even dreaming of moving me out and moving back here with the whore – the neighbors would never have anything to do with them, or they’d make their lives miserable!
EyesOpenNow you are exactly right… My neighbors have come to see me at work to make sure I’m ok, and even though I’ve never spoken an ill word about him or our situation, my neighbors have made it clear they understand perfectly what has happened!
I too am stumped as to why it would ever be acceptable to move into a house that would never be yours, and to be compared/judged daily by neighbors and friends of the person you wronged. Could be why she showed up at an in laws event (not just a party mind you, an actual event) drunk and high. Nothing screams “I did nothing wrong! Our relationship is legit” like stumbling and slurring your speech in a public place. Bravo!!! Good luck with that mess…
Hell, they’ve moved the AP right into your LIFE – into the house is only a small step!
Mine was insinuating Senior Slut into the family (with our daughter and his siblings and mother) within a few weeks of abandoning me after our 38 year marriage. And claiming there was no relationship prior to his leaving me. Yeah, right.
That, and they’re just generally lazy fucks who can’t be bothered to learn how a new kitchen works or what light switch does what.
I moved out on July 26th. The new girlfriend – not the AP, but the woman he cheated on the AP with ?- was there visiting the very next week. The neighbors were a bit surprised – if not to say shocked. Personally, I would have felt weird if I were her – the ex wife just moved out and she’s already being invited to stay and being introduced to “our” friends.
They have no shame. We would have all felt too ashamed of ourselves to show our faces. They aren’t burdened with that part of humanity. Of much of anything else that makes us caring humans for that matter.
My awakening happened over several defining moments which forced me to take a long, hard look at why I was still tripping over myself trying to win him back.
Because DD #3 happened so close to DD #2, I had a mini-meltdown that unfortunately my daughter witnessed. That shook me up and caused me to lessen my efforts but not completely cease the pick-me-dance.
Finding his online dating account, after he had just days before lied straight to my face about how he was trying to work on himself and was definitely not getting involved with other women, was another slip of his mask that moved me closer to my enlightenment.
After that, things just started to add up that I was only able to clearly see when I started the process of eliminating all meaningful contact with him. Meaningful as in, no more family outings, responding to text messages unrelated to our daughter and basically allowing him to draw me into his drama.
After more than two years of him telling me he wanted a divorce and no action from him, I made an appointment with an attorney. His only response was how much money was it going to cost him and how long was he going to have to pay. I guess you could say that moment was the catalyst for me. For him to break down what was the most difficult decision of my life into a financial transaction told me exactly the kind of person he was. His mask, in that moment, slid completely off and smashed to the floor. I was crushed thinking about how our planned future together was ending and was has standing there counting dollar bills.
Since that moment, it’s all sort of collided together, his behavior over the years and how he treats me and others, not as people but as assets and liabilities. I am now a liability to him. I loved a man who was capable of delivering indescribable pain without remorse. Who lied, cheated, devalued and blamed me for his unhappiness. Is he a sick individual? Most definitely. Is he capable of change and being a better human being? It seems unlikely but that’s not my burden to bear anymore.
The sad fact is, I loved someone who doesn’t even exist. I look back on all of those years and realize that he was a fictional character in a script that he wrote to suit his own needs. He never loved me and when my value started to deplete, he looked elsewhere for his supply. My awakening is finally understanding that I wasn’t crazy all those years. That something was terribly wrong in our marriage and with him. He can spread all the propaganda he wants about what a good person he is, the truth is, he can only hang onto those falsities for so long before the mask slips again and again and people see the dark one underneath. I still have bad days and doubts and flashes of better times with him but I’m on the upswing of this dark time and I finally understand that I don’t need him to have a happy life. My life is already better.
“I loved a man who was capable of delivering indescribable pain without remorse. Who lied, cheated, devalued and blamed me for his unhappiness. ”
Done4Good, your story resonated with me. Thanks for sharing.
Yes
Yes this a thousand times this.
“The sad fact is, I loved someone who doesn’t even exist. I look back on all of those years and realize that he was a fictional character in a script that he wrote to suit his own needs.”
That’s the thing for chumps to remember when they are telling themselves they still “love” the cheater. No, we loved the mask they showed us.
Your value only rises when you are no longer burdened by someone who is living a lie. The disordered will never be happy. I know this. Crappy choices speak to their character. Not your worth. You are worthy, Done.
I thought that I was a bold and rebellious Chump, but really I wasnt. During my marriage I didnt have the data I needed to properly unchump myself. I have a few stories of confronting him after finding his love letter to Susan or refusing to move when he demanded that I do so (that really did require some strength), hiding $40,000 for the great escape, but I stayed pretty hooked on the hopium pipe buying spackle from Costco in 5 gallon drums.
I entertain fantasies of how I would have thrown his ass out had I known then what I know now; how I would have clearly let him know that he had overplayed his hand. I have an extended daydream of what it would have been like if we had divorced and I had later married my now H2.0 (who H1 would have despised because H2 has so many attributes that H1 lacked and envied).
I think I was emotionally unchumped the day I was cleaning out his personal files and learned that his “coming clean” explanation was rife with more lies.. The day I learned he had prior affairs, I pulled the family portrait off the wall and lugged it to the basement (with the adrenaline fueled strength of Hulk) screaming “YOU FUCKING FUCKER!!!!” all the way.
So I know Im the Pied Piper of “Living Well is the Best Revenge” (the life insurance policy he bought when he was fucking Susan has set me up nicely and paid nary a dime to Susan) and I invite you all to join the parade as you untangle the messes thrown at you and establish your own unchumpy lives…
but know how much I respect adn envy you who broke out of the oppression in the moment and triumphed and found your inner badass…you rock, you are my heroes.
After D-Day # 2, I realized I had never REALLY felt like I could trust him after D-Day1. And I realized that even if he actually NEVER cheated on me again in the future, I’d never trust him the way I should trust my husband. I realized that a marriage without trust was just not good enough for me, because I know that I can be trusted.
It took about 6 weeks to get my ducks in a row before I actually confronted him to say we were divorcing, but the moment I saw the D-Day 2 evidence, my mind was made up and I knew it was over. That may sound really strong on my part..but D-Day 1 was over ten years before….and I should have ended it then.
My story is similar. DDay#1 was six years before DDay#2, and even though I had done all the hard work of forgiveness, rebuilding, and introspection in that time, and for my part I felt we’d “made our marriage stronger” (barf), when DDay#2 came, I just couldn’t… I said “no more.”
What I realized somewhere in that limbo of time was that even though I loved him and forgave him (then), I would never love him the way I did before DDay#1. It was such a sad realization for me, and I knew after DDay#2 that there was nothing worth saving anymore.
I don’t think he expected me to kick him out, and I don’t think OWife realizes that she only became his “twu wuv” on the fast-track to soulmate wedded bliss after I did.
Dated the cheater for 2 years… mostly LD because his brother had terminal cancer (or maybe not, who cares now). Over time, his treatment of me became one decent night after a long separation, followed by the most dismal lazy-ass slacking possible. I was good to him. Supportive, listening, cooking, cleaning, painting his fucking vacation condo, and I simply couldn’t make sense of how he could treat me like I barely existed (except to do those things).
One night I literally woke up from a dead sleep at 3am, sat up in my bed, and said, “he’s cheating.” I tried to tell myself I was imagining it, but the more I thought about his behavior, and the fact that his cell phone was now closely guarded, I knew it was true. Couldn’t prove it, but true.
I started distancing, made plans for every weekend he was in town if he didn’t bother to ask me to do something by the middle of the week. Joined a Meetup group for an activity to keep busy, and met a lovely man. All I could think was, “where are the men like this when I am single??”
Meetup Man asked me out shortly thereafter, and I told him I was in a relationship that was about to end, but I had to honor it until it was. A week later, I was at BF’s place staying overnight when I got up to let the dog out. Lo and behold, there is his cell phone, charging. Unlocked. I’ve never looked in a wallet or phone. I believe in privacy and trust. But I looked that night. I didn’t even read any emails, I didn’t have to. All it took was seeing an email thread between him and someone@talkmatch.com to know that he had a paid account on a dating site.
I made an excuse to leave and went home and found his dating profile. I composed an email telling him it was over and not to try to contact or see me, and waited for him to jump online. The second his profile showed he was ‘online now,’ I took a screenshot, attached it to the email and sent it.
He stalked me in person and by text message for a year afterwards, despite solid NC from me. The most pathetic ‘gifts’ you could imagine, he left on my doorstep. He watched my house. I called the police and filed reports, and the third time he tried to follow me, I went to court to get a temporary protective order. I had to argue with the judge to get it. My court advocate told me that judge never gives protective orders. They couldn’t find him to serve him papers for a permanent order, so a police officer from one of the reports volunteered to call him and tell him that I’d filed reports and had all the proof I needed to prove stalking.
Stalking ended immediately.
I married the Meetup Man.
Am I the only one thinking “I Married the Meetup Man” would make a great song title? 🙂
Great story, WhoDaChump!
Yay! Wonderful story (altho sorry you had to endure a year of stalking – very scary stuff).
I’m glad you met Meetup Man at a Meet up event. After reading this site for a year, and reflecting on my X’s life consists of (namely online hookups, porn, Craigslist), I don’t think I’d trust anyone I met online.
I’m not hopeful about meeting men anyway. Nor interested in looking. It’s a strange limbo – after twenty years of liking sex with X but now knowing what he’s really into I am kind of put off by the whole things. And X’s preferences introduced me to a particularly sordid underbelly of sexual depravity so some things cannot be unseen. Which has done a number on my head.
Roaring – I hear you. I am sad to admit that part of me died after I discovered that my life was not real. F**kwit lived a double life with prostitutes and escorts which I uncovered. After that, the fun part of me that loved being with a man, flirting, having sex, doing things for him has withered up and died. Knowing the filth that he participated in and then came home to me, fills me with revulsion. When I encounter married men now I always wonder what the hell they are really up to. A man flirted with me the other day and I was physically overcome with nausea. F**kwit took all of my past 23 years and is now taking my future as well. I am recovering in so many ways but that desire to be with a man is utterly dead.
I’m such a sucker for a happy ending. I love your story.
Great story, WhoDaChump! Congrats on your marriage to Meetup Man. 🙂
“One night I literally woke up from a dead sleep at 3am, sat up in my bed, and said, “he’s cheating.””
I had a very similar experience: she had given me plenty of reason to suspect an affair, and I asked, confronted her outright, saying please tell me, I deserve to know if there’s somebody else. No, she said, there is nobody. A day or two later I had a dream – I walked into her place of work and EVERYBODY in there was staring at me like I had no business there, like she had already debuted my replacement there. I bolted awake, heart pounding, etc., etc. Checked her phone that day and figured it all out. Fucking bitch.
I do like your happy Meetup Man ending, though. I’m not giving up, yet…
After the third time of leaving and coming back, I finally had enough. He wanted to live together until we sold the house but I packed up and left with the kids. He harassed me for two weeks about wanting to talk but I hired a lawyer and served him with separation papers. He had no clue it was coming or that I would even think of hiring a lawyer.
After 8 months, he is still very angry that I “lawyered up”. I was so desperate to get out of the house that I left most of my belongings behind. As a result, he destroyed my wedding dress, took all the videos of our kids, stole personal items and said and did some other horrible things.
After I left, he really showed his true colors. Sadly, he’s walking around playing the victim with his friends and family. I know what he is really capable of and that is all that matters.
He was angry that you lawyered up?! WTF? How about *you* go nuclear because he cheated on you and destroyed your family. And because he didn’t get what he wanted, he threw a tantrum and destroyed your items. I’m sorry you were married to a person who is this mentally deranged. Good for you for filing!!
Gather ’round, Chumps…. this story is especially disgusting.
I found out in 2014 that my now ex-whorefucker husband was a VERY active John. He was also VERY active on one particular Whore/John website where people go to review whores…. much like how you might review your local Thai restaurant on Yelp, except with this you’re giving details of how old the whore looks, what her puss smells like, if she’ll perform BBBJs, how things are DATY and be GFE. (I didn’t used to know what those acronyms meant, I wish I still didn’t)
Anyway, my ex was like the king of the Johns on that site. He also has a background in marketing. So, apparently, years ago, he designed a little logo of a thumbs-up, along with the words “MiamiBoy305 Approved!” (Not his real John name) Anyway, he would bestow this logo, along with his review, on the homepage of the whores who he visited and especially liked. Blue if they didn’t take it up the ass, gold if they did. (wow, huh?) And so his stupid logo was quite a talking point on the boards. As I write this, I still can’t believe I’m writing this. This was the man I loved for 20 years who I thought was one of the good ones.
But I digress….
After D-Day, and after my about 8 months of floundering, and freaking out, and trying to see if we could reconcile, etc, I broke. One day, during a heated argument, I turned to him, stuck my “thumbs up” hand in his face and said very clearly without any stutter, “This Divorce will NOT be MiamiBoy approved!”, turned my hand from a thumbs up into a middle finger (still being held in his face) and walked away.
Just a small, small victory, but there ya go…. and yes, I DO NOT THINK the results of our divorce would have gotten a logo bestowed from MiamiBoy, unless the gold color were to mean that HE got fucked up the ass…. by me and my attorney.
Ha! That is fucking awesome!!!
What a disgusting pig. Glad you made mincemeat of him in court.
That’s awesome….good for you! My ex was also regularly visiting escorts (really, just a polite name for prostitutes). He has never admitted to it but I found phone numbers, addresses and he was taking out cash advances on his credit card. If it walks like a duck! From what I can see, he first started seeing them when our daughter was only 6 months old and we had only been married a year. It makes me sick! How do you get past that?
+1!! Awesome!!
To use Ian’s phrase…that makes me feel murdery.
I wonder why someone would chose sex you have to pay for, with jaded hard women who would cut your throat for a buck…as opposed to genuine love and kindness?
So they can debase them?
He didn’t have to choose. For 5 years, he was getting both. Whores during his lunch hour, me all the rest of the time. Fucking pig.
Wow. He had a snow shovel and was shoving cake in his mouth every waking hour. He is a fucking pustule.
He is not fit to pump your gas.
And I am sure not getting too sassy….my X could have been doing the same.
I cannot know, do not want to know…everything he got up to away from me.
He made a point to tell me, with sincerity, that every woman who “parties” and does coke and meth and heroin is NOT a whore.
I mean, really….how could I be so judgmental?
Thank God for this site. Suddenly being alone on Friday….not so bad after all.
???
Ha! So awesome!! What a scene. He deserved it. So disgusting. Talk about a double life. Thanks for sharing this!
GiveTimeTime, thanks for sharing your story. The things I’ve learned from CL and CN — people, places and things that I never knew even existed! Never knew there were online sites for “Johns.” And there are wives out there, loving and caring for these “men”, and these wives don’t even know their husbands are up to this crap! I’m so sorry you went through this, but you are one mighty woman!
When I read stories here at CL and CN, I a part of me can see my ex possibly doing or have done some of the things I see people write about. Case in point: About ten years ago we were in Amsterdam on vacation. He purposely took us through the Red Light District. Now he pretended that it was all an accident that we ended up there, but he was the one with the map (we always used Rick Steeves European guidebooks and Rick had a chapter about the Red Light District.) The Red Light District was one of the saddest things I’ve ever seen on vacation. Real live women “for sale” in windows and in glass doors. They just stood there, almost naked, just waiting for a pervert. I just cried. I wanted to get out of this area, but my ex was like “we are lost” — NO! Your brought us here on purpose!!. And he even purposely took us down this special lane between two building — it was in the guidebook, so I know it wasn’t an accident. He wanted to see what that special lane was all about too! He also went to Canada at least ten times when I was at home, pregnant with our second child, to get 100% naked lap dances and probably paid for even more! And he views porn which of course he denied ever doing! So this is why it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to find out my ex did other things during our marriage that I didn’t know about. And from what I understand, it’s a progression with this evil shit. Playboy magazines (yep, I saw that he bought one of those before we got engaged — “I bought it with Scott, because Madonna was naked in it.”). Then it’s strip clubs. Then it’s online porn. Then it’s hooking up with prostitutes. There’s a progression , just like with drug use. The first thing isn’t enough anymore, so they move onto the next thing.
Not sure if this is the right post or not. I love that Playboy issue with Madonna in it. Good god, she’s a hairy sexy goddess. But I was single when I got it and porn is something a couple must discuss and agree upon first.
As to going on vacation with one’s mother. Eeewwwww. I love my mother. She’s hilarious and fun, but I would never, never, never go on vacation with her unless it was like her final tour before death.
Ian – ‘As to going on vacation with one’s mother. Eeewwwww. I love my mother. She’s hilarious and fun, but I would never, never, never go on vacation with her unless it was like her final tour before death.’
Gad, I feel like a pervert suddenly – always inviting her to come on all our trips – encouraging it even.
Otherwise, we’d never go on trips.
He was always SO happy when his Mom was there. He catered to her. She was like the mom (Mary Tyler Moore) on Ordinary People….doting and laughing at everything he said. So, yeah – it was fun to watch him entertain her with all his jokes. The very first walk we took on Waikiki Beach after the plane ride when we were first married, he walked 100 yards ahead of me, practically swinging arms with his mom and noting how beautiful everything was. I was left behind with his mean little sister, also along for the ride. A Narc in her own right.
The more I think about this, the more I’d sure like to meet a normal guy after this long. I hope there are some out there. I used to think this was a great trait to love your mother, but I had huge red flags the first time I met her interacting with him. Guess I was too young to see that one.
I’ll just never forget my first Hawaiin beach walk. What a joke.
Wow, about him walking the beach with his mom and not you. That’s just wrong on so many levels. I thought the same as you — a close relationship with mom was a good sign. I always thought it was odd that his mom flirted with him and rubbed up against him, but now I realize that was a big old red flag.
I used to call my MIL Marie from “Everybody Loves Raymond.” It was very fitting.
OMG Annie – ‘I used to call my MIL Marie from “Everybody Loves Raymond.” It was very fitting.’
This couldn’t have been more perfect.
Hell, that woman even controlled >me<.
Thankfully we lived 800 miles apart but she was often visiting or vice versa.
I live 5 minutes from “Marie.” Once she called me and I didn’t answer the phone because I was in the shower. She rushed over to make sure everything was okay. Another time she was put out because she called the school to discuss my son and was told they couldn’t talk to her because she wasn’t his parent. She yelled at them and said she was his grandparent. Best part of divorce is no Marie.
AnnieGetYourGuns said, “Best part of divorce is no Marie.” Amen! My MIL is just as fake and phone as my ex. And she’s a great liar like and manipulator like her spawn. I’m so thankful that I never have to deal Marie ever again! She controlled me, too. I was onto her a few years back and made the ex deal with her as she was awesome at getting me to do things that I didn’t want to do. I can’t tell you how many parties she planned that ended up being at our house even though she had a big enough house to have her family at. “Martha can do all the work!” Fuck off, users! My ex MIL even wanted to be at the birth, like in the room watching my naked private parts, of our first child. Sorry. She wasn’t their when he was conceived. She sure as hell wasn’t going to be looking at my private parts! She was all in a tiff over us (ex didn’t want her there either) saying she couldn’t be there. No one says no to MIL!! I could go on and on. Yes, one of the best parts of divorce is not having her in my life anymore. It’s funny, but she and her spawn think they are perfect. Funny, but she alienated all three of the in-laws and their kids over the years. Hmmmm. I wonder who the problem is? Couldn’t be perfect Marie…..
I remember sitting on the couch, looking at the Christmas tree while gut wrenching sobs wracked my body. It was then that I heard a very tiny, weak voice that said, “What about MY life?”
At that point I’d neglected myself for so long that I barely recognized my own voice, but I think that’s when I realized I was just bone tired of trying to please someone who couldn’t be pleased. I felt like I deserved a life too.
That moment reminded me of building a fire. When the first tiny spark appears, it excites you and gives you hope. But you know that spark is so small and fragile it can easily be snuffed out, so you start fanning it like crazy. You hope that giving it more oxygen will enable it to catch some tiny twigs on fire, then spread to small branches, then ignite large logs. Once the fire is crackling and warm, you can finally relax, sit back, and bask in the glow.
I fanned that tiny spark inside me like crazy.
Great story.
Lyn….I have to get my fan out. This is medicine for me. Do you have any ideas or tips on ways to get my spark roaring?
Odd…my favorite short story is To Build a Fire, Jack London.
Sylvia, my counselor would tell me after every meeting to pay attention to anything that brought me joy. The first thing I noticed was that listening to music made me feel better. I’ve actually loved music all my life, I would call it my first love. So I started trying to get as much music into my life as possible. I attended concerts, musicals, started playing the piano again, took up playing the bongo drums. Anything you can reconnect with that was a passion as a child is one way to get started. Hope this helps!
I agree. Remember your childhood passion that you possibly were not allowed to have.
I love dogs, showing, rescuing – they are my life.
My Dad got rid of every dog I rescued that I still sort of hate him to this day.
Hey Pop – ever wonder why I never gave you a grandchild?
Yup. Animals are my thing.
FIND YOUR PASSION!
I have been through this twice now ( will never, ever marry again).
First time was pre-internet-zero support. I had no idea what to do. Just acquiesced to the divorce and kept my mouth shut about what I had discovered.
About 6 years after the divorce, I finally told my then 11 year old son about the cheating. HE, on his own, inquired “Dad, was mom cheating?” So, I told him the truth. I finally told someone after “protecting” her ( and my kids) from the truth.
Apparently, she was prolific. Multiple men and some women, too. I discovered all this gradually, as evidence seeped in.
Second time, I acted much differently, much more decisive and protective of my self. told everyone- her parents, my kids by her, mutual friends.
I , also, got a lawyer right away and filed.
You know, despite what I read on SI and some other sites, it seems to me that the overwhelming majority of cheaters are not remorseful in the least. I would say one should never consider reconciling with one and that one should never expect one of these types to “get it” and have remorse and apologize.
What the cheaters on Si do not get and why they are so protective of themselves, banning constantly, is that if they are sincere and have remorse, they are but a tiny fraction of the normal cheater populations.
And, reading their stories ( and most are pretty selfish assholes) a betrayed person can start to wonder and have doubts and have unrealistic expectations’ Why did our cheaters not have remorse? Why did our cheaters continue to blame us and smear us? But, the reality is that almost all cheaters are like this, not the “remorseful waywards” on those sites.
I had to combat smearing. I had to learn to expect nothing in the way of remorse or responsibility acceptance. And, even this far out, in some small corner of my mind, I , unrealistically, think that maybe, just maybe, some day I will get an apology.
I see these two women all the time as we have kids. I talk to them about the kids and am pleasant and we cooperate. I never mention the cheating. It just looms and is never mentioned.
And, they are all friendly and gabby with me. They are great at compartmentalizing. They cannot fathom that they are abusers of the highest order. I get calls to discuss mundane things ( I shut it down, politely). I got an invitation to dinner from my first XW, who wanted to also invite my girlfriend.
These cheaters, the true NPDs are great at image control.
I think they are not human. I think they have gotten away with this type of thing their entire lives and see nothing wrong with it.
You will never see any remorse form this type. They suck and it takes a while for people to figure them out.
They are so far from normal.
Arnold you are a bigger person that I. I refuse to let my X act like nothing was done wrong. I will not speak to her and I refuse to act like everything is ok. Now I could care less what others think about me acting that way. I’m not going to act like she is ok and we are getting along. Not even for my kids. They aren’t normal and I don’t have much life left. I refuse to let society tell me how to treat her. I’m the one she damaged and until they live through it, don’t tell me how to handle it. Good luck navigating the mess!
Agree. I could care less.
Sounds like you are now foundntx.
Telling me! I have no respect for him. I sure won’t get in like he was good to me when he was treacherous. I’m all about image management….just not how he wants it.
Was referring to stbx not Arnold. Arnold you got heart. I’d cut them off like a gangrene leg.
I also refused to let the x back in emotionally (no kids, thankfully). However, every time I’d see him during the auction of our house, with business ppl around (one was an ex-customer of his) and a couple men friends of ours, I couldn’t help myself by saying. So, I hear Kimmy is pregnant! Oh, I also heard she had a hysterectomy and got rid of the child. (true but not the child that I know of) as I walked around his back, pacing. He didn’t say a word but I know I embarrassed the shit out of him around all these 5 guys in the room. One guy said – Plead the 5th. So, he actually plead the 5th laughing, but I hadn’t accused him of anything.
Like I say, I couldn’t help it! Sorry. Not.
I had FUN!
And, I know he would never come back around me again. I would just humiliate him again and he knows it. So, no worries there.
Not sure where I got my cattiness from. Probably his mother.
One of the things that I began to notice with some regularity pre DD was Fucktard’s hypocrisy. I don’t know if it became worse over the years or I just noticed it more. It was both little and big things. He would get angry at the boys for not putting tools away when they finished using them, yet he’d leave them laying around everywhere. He’d get angry at someone at work for blowing in sick when they weren’t, but then do the same thing. He’d make fun of his mother for blaring the TV when we went over for a visit and not moving from her recliner, and well, you guessed it, he’d do the same thing when his kids tried to talk to him. I know this is a “words don’t match actions” sort of thing, but in hindsight I’d say this is a huge indicator of future problems. And just before DD #1 Fucktard complained that his boss was cheating with one of his subordinates.
Annie-I refer to this as the “holier than thou” attitude. They bitch about what everyone else does, and they do the same thing??what fucking assholes.
Agree. Asswipe would yell about being dishonest and lack of respect and then do it himself. The pod is a do as i say not as i do type.
It’s the entitlement! Everybody else should follow the rules, be respectful and honest, because that way they know what to count on. But the same rules are not for THEM! They are entitled to do what they want, at any moment, because, well, because they are special!
Add that to the common narc love of putting others down, and you get a really toxic hypocrisy. Unfortunately, children learn what they see, not what they hear ….
My first baby step to unchumpdom was after the final D-Day. He left for a business trip the next day (to a city where one of his whores lives). I told all my family and friends what I’d discovered, and I made a hotel reservation for him. When he got back, I told him to move out. Unfortunately, I spent the next seven months bouncing between wreckonciliation, contact, no contact, and another wreckoncilation. When he dumped me after the second wreckonciliation, he told me he needs the validation of other women too much to ever not cheat on me.
He left and I cried my eyes out. That night, I trudged back and forth in the snow from the house to the trash bin with all the Christmas gifts he’d given me the week before and all the “save your marriage” books I’d been mainlining for the past few months.
The next day, I fired my therapist and hired a shark of a lawyer. That was when I finally unchumped.
What kills me (and of course, this is the untangling, but for the sake of us normal thinking chumps and how we view things) is how they can’t figure the crap out before they deceive and lie! They drag innocent people through piles and piles of crap like nothing! It’s just hard to imagine the selfishness…Unbelievable the crap that flies out of their mouths.
Exactly. Who here would have replied, “I do” if the cheater repeated their real vows, “I need the validation of other people to ever be faithful to you. I will lie to you. I will betray you. I will blame you for my inadequacies. I will minimize your needs and your pain. I will jeopardize your health. I will do all of this and anything else I want to do because I am more important than you. This I promise only unto you until death, or you finally comprehend my depravity, do we part”
Yes
+100
It is the brutal truth.
“Or you finally comprehend my depravity”……
I know! The worst is that we talked all the pre existing marriage issues out post d-day and it was nothing. Why the FUCK didn’t he just SAY SOMETHING?! I still love the stupid fuck and he could have saved all of this. But he didn’t. And now I’m fucking devastated. He moves out tomorrow. To go live with the whoremat.
When I first found out about the affair it was through text messages. One of the only messages I saw before the asshole grabbed his phone was that he and the OW were planning a ski trip. Now fast forward to three weeks later while we are trying to reconcile and I come home to find him about to leave the house in the brand-new car I bought him. It is about 7 o’clock in the morning and I wonder where he could possibly be going, since he is a cop and had the day off. I park my car and get into the passenger seat of his new Jeep. I instantly notice that he isn’t wearing a wedding ring. I ask him where you going? He replies, I’m going to go skiing for a few days, I just need to find myself. I tell him that he’s been treating me poorly and I hope he finds whatever he’s looking for… with a tears streaming from his eyes he says, I know I have been treating you bad, but can I at least have a hug? I slammed the door and just know that the asshole is going to meet the bitch and go on the trip they had originally planned. The dumb fuck then proceeds to turn off his cell phone for the next four days and will not respond to any texts or calls. I check our joint checking and he has spent $500 on a new ski outfit and hundreds more on food and the bitch paid for lodging. I called my mom and we packed up all his shit in trash bags, put it in storage, and left a note at his police station letting him know to get the fuck out.
I’m not sure why, but my ability to survive in life is in my DNA. I have never felt safe with anyone to take care of me. It was always me taking care of some other fucking asshole. I’ve been subjected to a lot of sociopathic abuse over 18 years. I was a well trained chump. I feel like the Cluster Fuck B Sociopath never really knew me, because if he did, he wouldn’t have endorsed the orchestration of causing my termination from my job. I was a stellar employee, and he knew it. They would never have fired me.
However, I did get fired. When my boss informed me, I flat out told him I did not believe the story he was telling me as to how he came to his decision.
D-day occurs one month later. I knew he was seeing someone just needed proof cuz if his liar hole is moving its spewing lies.
Fast forward three months. I’m still perplexed as to who had it in for me that they would call my employer and fabricate a story to cause my termination. All of a sudden a light bulb goes off, and I know it was the Sociopath and Cock Slobber behind it.
Long story short: I told him I knew it was him, he of course said I was bi-polar and crazy?.
Denied it all. He is a liar. And he did it.
Now, had he known me at all after 18 years, he would not have dared to do this. He must have really believed I wouldn’t find out. He was wrong.
Now, the one thing I do not allow anyone to mess with is my survival. When he did that, he unleashed the fury of hellfire. Biggest mistake of his sorry life.
Upon discovery of his participation in my termination, I finally got it thru my head that he is evil to the core. He can never be trusted with anything.
Of course, being a chump we always take the high road, forgive, blah blah blah. That has been his experience with me until this point. Then he met a new person, one he can’t manipulate, speak to, look at, or breathe the same air as I do. He is a coward. I took abuse from a fucking coward. He is bewildered today. He has tried many tricks to get me to acknowledge his presence. My silence and obvious hatred destroys him. It’s great fun watching him twist himself into a frenzy trying to get his chump back in line. I have no mercy for this Cluster Fuck. I don’t have to do a thing, he will do it to himself. Obviously.
Incidentally, my former employer recently reached out to me. He asked me to come back, that he felt I got a raw deal and he wanted to make it right. vindication.
Moral of story: don’t believe a word they say, don’t put anything past them.
Yep: “It was always me taking care of some other fucking asshole.”
Dam girl! MIGHTY
And the worst thing these a-holes can do is UNDERESTIMATE… BIG mistake
Wow. Just wow.
I found the texts (he was on a run and left his phone out) and left to go call my best friend. I texted the OW on his phone and said you should tell your bf to get a password lock on his phone. I was expecting to have a come to Jesus moment as I was coming home but he said the dogs are in their kennel and I went to my parents. I went to the bank and took half of the money and started calling lawyers the next day. I was tired to being married to an emotionally abusive selfish man-child. It was more of him not being accountable than the affair at that point for me.
Mine quite all his many active OW and stopped logging into all the sex sites had been active on. When I asked.
But he absolutely refused to tell me the truth of how many women and how many years and what all he did (send me your photo was a common line, do you have a webcam second and then the screen caps showed he lied about how far it went).
I was finally mighty when it was clear he had a totally separate persona he used to pursue these women and yet I slept next to him every night. Completely freaked me out. I got a spine and laid out what I wanted, required, to reconcile. Basically that he commit to being a completely different person. He refused. And I was … FREE.
I am LOVING these stories! So many Chumps are mighty!!
That should be QUIT all his many active OW. Oh, one he never admitted he lied to her about me being ok with what they did but I contacted her and she was, get this, angry and felt taken advantage of. Ya think?!
After Dday #3, I actually let him live in a guest room in the house for 2 more years, but then I really couldn’t take him, his abusiveness and his bad behavior any longer. It was like my heart was about to explode and I would not be able to conceal it.
He was on one of his rants one morning, I knew he was trying to pick a fight with my youngest son, just like he used to do with my oldest. Instead of praying it would all blow over, I decided to take action. I marched in the room where he was ranting, told him I was scared of him and he needed to leave. He lunged at me, asked me what I was afraid of and I said “That, you, get out before I have to call the police!” that calmed him down then I told him I was filing for divorce. He started first with the sadness, then the blame, the threats came out, but it was like someone else had taken over my voice and instead of fighting or arguing, like he wanted, I just kept calmly saying, “It’s over and it has been over for a long time.”
I filed for divorce as soon as the doors of the law office opened that next week and handed him the papers myself. He still refused to move out. Finally, his brother and sister flew over from Germany on a planned vacation and took his clothes and moved him to his new place themselves.
It still took a year to get the divorce finalized as he was not going to go without hurting me financially, but I will get that back in savings from not being married to a hoarder that barely makes ends meet and spends money on idiot things like tons of broken down cars.
He even went as far as stalking me and harassing me and a new guy I was having lunch with. I didn’t stand for it but called the police with each and every incident. Even had him on the watch list at my place of employment so he was not allowed on the premises. That shut him down pretty quickly.
After 20 years of abuse, I am finally free.
“I knew he was trying to pick a fight with my youngest son, just like he used to do with my oldest”
You are very mighty ChumpedtotheMax. My mother was just like your ex-husband, right down to the hoarding tendencies and buying junk. I saw so much of her in your Ex-Husband. And my mother is a textbook Narcissist and I have been No Contact with her for 5 years now. I recall when I was a helpless and innocent child, she would deliberately pick fights with me. And my father just stood by and never did or said anything to defend me. He was such a passive coward.
I truly admire you for protecting your children and for divorcing someone who is clearly mentally deranged. My father didn’t have the courage to protect me from a mental wackjob like my mom, but reading your story really resonated with me and it’s nice to see parents who actually protect their kids from such disturbing parental behavior.
Kellia, it could be your Dad was beaten down like I was…I feel sick that I didn’t do enough to protect my oldest son, but I was not going to let it happen again after I finally did get clarity that it wasn’t me or the kids, he was the person with the problem.
He spent the entire time of our marriage blaming me for his difficulties with the kids because “we didn’t pull on the same string” (because his string was abusive and I was trying to keep the kids from that)…in the end I was too weak, depressed and really just waiting to die when I finally found a counselor that told me the truth, I was married to an abuser and needed to leave. It took me six years to pick myself off of the floor and file for divorce. The 3rd Dday in that time helped, so I am very thankful he cheated again.
Anyway my point is…I understand your Dad in a way and I hope my oldest will not blame me for not protecting him enough but really, I was doing the best I could with what I had at the time.
I also had a narc mom who abused me, so really, I thought an abusive husband and taking abuse from someone I loved was normal. I wish I had found counseling much sooner.
CTTM–that moment, when it hits after years of abuse, is refreshing in its clarity. “Enough.”
I kicked him out 5 months after Dday when it became clear that he was still cheating and w as just using me for room and board. I kicked him out in January, so I waited a bit to get his clothes out of the house. I just bagged up everything and put them in garbage bags and put them in the garage. He came over to see the kids and opened the coat closet. He asked me “where’s my stuff”? I calmly replied “In the garage, you don’t live here anymore”. What did he think I was going to keep his stuff in my dresser….he’s lucky I didn’t throw it all out and tell him the tooth fairy stole it….
I did the same thing to my ex whore. All her shit was still hanging in the bedroom closet and finally I just got some contractor trash bags and loaded them all up, threw them in the garage and told her she had one week or it was getting donated. This was before I knew about CL so I didn’t know they were supposed to go into the yard for the raccoons lol.
When I made him call his whores to tell them they were busted and that they weren’t there only ones. I sent copies of their emails and tit pics to their family members and church members. That’s not even the tip of the iceberg; I only upped the ante from there.
I didn’t even have to work very hard to find tit pics of the OW. Cheater was taking them himself, and pimping her on a website, framing them as “artistic photos”. Only problem was they were full frontal, shaved twat, fat girl pics, tatts & piercings included. I actually said “eewww” when I first saw them. She had huge, flacid legs, a bloated belly…just like me!!!…but I don’t flaunt it publicly.
I made a nice album of them all and sent them along to OW’s Mom and Dad, her sister, and her employer, with clear evidence of where they had been posted and why. Her excuse ? She was broke and Mommy wouldn’t pay rent for a 34 year old daughter.
In every cheating man’s arsenal, amongst secret email accounts, dating websites and the like, you’ll find mountains of tit pics from their other women. Whores love sending tit pics for admiration so I figured I was doing them a service by showing them to everyone. I figured they could get their attention from the public without having to actually ask for it.
Still can’t figure out why they were so upset when I did. I thought they loved showing their tits.
Perhaps the men can chime in with what tangible items that cheating women keep in their arsenals. Sounds like a fun topic to share notes on.
Hahaha, Lastinline.
They don’t mind posting pics of their junk online so why should it bother them if we post the same pics?
If I’d had the presence of mind to copy the pics I saw on D-day, I would have sent them to everyone I could think of. Family, friends, co-workers, church friends, barflies. It still rankles that the most people, upon meeting him, think he’s a great guy. Thruout our marriage, women would make a point of telling me how lucky I was to be married to him – and a few even told me I wasn’t good enough for him.
Usually these were older women- he loved befriending old ladies to confide his trouble in and had been very close to his grandmother. On the other hand, when one friend (aged 94) died he wasn’t even upset – altho he was a like a cherished son to her.
I don’t understand anyone who would continue giving cheaters the time of day after knowing what they’re up to. My x is a sexual predator but I’m the bitch.
Totally understand! I was also told- ” oh you’re husband is so great. I hope you treat him right”. Yeah- I’ll treat him right- with divorce papers and swift kick to the ass!
Mommy issues
“Still can’t figure out why they were upset when I posted their tit pics” !! My thought exactly. They are doing it to be attention ho’s…it’s just free publicity! Oops…forgot about the necessity for image control as well. Narcs love to feel they are in control.
Love it!! ??
He was forced to retire. I because the office at home assistant that needed to answer all his beckoning calls. I was already the farm, house, animal caregiver. Now, it was him , first. Let’s go to town everyday. I had chores to do. He wanted me to keep him entertained. I couldn’t do that and tend to the 100 acre farm. He began to sleep till 12 noon, wake up a get a beer and end the day with several beers and a two liter bottle of wine. I was encouraged to go on a trip to Canada by him. I had to pay for it all. He abandoned me and the farm. First, he allowed his flying monkey children to raid the place, including my stuff. I had a friend who had already known what was happening since she fed my dogs and tended to the farm which was for sale , so we could move to and near the grandchildren. She got me a appointment with an attorney the next day after I got back. I was a crying mess and gathered everything I could as I wasn’t thinking I was leaving to get a divorce. Anyways, I have been no contact since he left and the divorce is now on year two. it was a nightmare and I don’t miss his condescending mean vile self.
My moment happened in two parts. The first was the day after d day when he was talking and talking about HIS unhappiness and how he needed a month away to make decisions….and I asked him why have you not asked me about my unhappiness? He kept talking like he didn’t hear me. In my mind the rebellion started rolling with the realization that he wanted to explore his emotions (options) and wanted me to just wait for his decision on my life.
The second half started when some people on Reddit told me to seek out chump lady. Later that night I was binge reading and I came across a post from a chump who was explaining that after three years of pick me dancing and her husband bouncing back and forth between her and the ow she finally had had enough.
No offense to that chump but her story Bitch slapped me out of the fog. I realized that I couldn’t live like that for a moment longer. That the thought of Fucktard and C.F. deciding my fate for me like I was a child or incompetent was just so repulsive to me I knew then That I needed to take back my life and file for divorce. That was within the first week of d day.
And do you know that Fucktard actually had the gall to blame me for this divorce because I filed while he was supposed to be exploring his feelings? I told him he was supposed to be exploring his feelings not his whore.
My proud anti-chump moment occurred on D-Day (D-evening when he arrived back from a biz trip). I had spent the prior several hours dashing around the house in a white-hot fury packing all his stuff in to random suitcases & black trash bags & put it all in the garage. I made a hotel reservation for him & then sat in the kitchen… exhausted & numb & so so sad for my children & still absolutely furious. It was a bizarre out-of-your-body muddle of feelings.
When he showed up, we had a brief, awful confrontation & he while he was loading his stuff back into the car… I saw his work iPhone on the counter. This was the same damn iPhone he’d been so weirdly & carefully guarding as if it were the holy grail. I grabbed the iPhone & went into the garage & found my big brass hammer I used for changing the wire wheel ‘knock-offs’ on my old E-Type.
I put the phone on the ground & without hesitating WHOMPED it with the hammer & it squashed & cracked & let out some whisks of smoke. That didn’t seem good enough to really kill it, so I WHACKED it a few more times & then the batteriy exploded in a 3 foot high fireball. Wow. Not safe at all, don’t try this at home… But wow. Even after 18 months from that day, it’s still satisfying to type this out.
I wanted sooo sooo bad to do this!
Ha, that’s wicked! I should’ve done that to Cheater’s phone. He was such a knob.
Wideawake that is amazing!! I wish I had done the same. Good for you!!
It has become a huge important lesson I hope I can convey to my kids when they’re older. If your partner hides their phone access or computer access – barricaded behind passwords that they won’t share – it’s because they HAVE things they want to HIDE.
It seems so simple now in hindsight. I never want my children to go through what I’ve been through!
Oh, no, you didn’t! Best. Ever. Way to go!
Ok, you got me with E-Type with knock offs. Wow. You rock, and blowing up the phone was cool too. 🙂
It’s a ’63 series 1 6-cylinder coupe that I bought from my dad for $20k 26 yrs ago. It’s fairly original but I added thiose airplane-style bolted-to-floor seatbelts & the more comfy series 2 seats. I hope to have a fun 55th bday party for the car in 2018
Wideawake!! Oh, my God, the phone!!! I so wanted to smash Jeffrey Dahmers phone. I knew when Jeff got his first iPhone, I just knew he’d use it for cheating. And he did. And it was all password protected. That and all his email accounts. Everything locked down tight. And he’d take that phone with him into the bathroom. Took the Bible with him too to “read.” Yeah, he was reading alright! But not the Bible. I caught onto his fake Bible reading, when I took note of where he bookmark was before he entered the bathroom and after he left the bathroom, sometimes being in there for 40 mins. The bookmark didn’t move one page. And this happened so many times. What kind of person does this, especially with a Bible? I guess I’m happy I didn’t smash his work phone, because it would just give his ho-workers more proof that I’m “crazy.” But it was very enjoyable reading that you did it!
I could have saved myself 3 years of utter betrayal & selfish contempt for our family, if I had understood it was time to bail as soon as he started al the secret phone behavior. But who knew? I sure had no clue.
As so many people on CN have said before, we can hardly conceive of the sheer depth & breadth of all that lying – since we just aren’t capable of lying that way & living a lengthy double-life ourselves. Ugh !!!
Yeah, the secret phone behavior. I had no clue either what cheater phone behavior looked like. My local male chump friend told me he saw how his cheating now ex-wife had the phone with her at all times. Texting all the time. He didn’t see it as a red flag until AFTER she said she was “unhappy” and wanted a divorce. He was blindsided like me. And then all the odd phone behavior came to his mind and he started being a detective and found out she was having an affair with a old co-worker. And of course he’s married, so she helped to break up two families. What a sweet angel she is. I vividly remember my ex getting up in the middle of the night and looking at his phone (it was like 3:00 in the morning.) I mentioned it post-D-Day and he had another quick lie (gosh, how are they so good at lying so quickly!) and said he was checking it for work as bad things happen in the middle of the night. Ugh. Yeah. And he’s in accounting. What? Did all the fucking banks blow-up, computers melted and beans explode? Yeah, a fucking nuclear catastrophe happened in accounting in the middle of the night. Who does he seriously think he’s fooling!
Martha – ‘ I vividly remember my ex getting up in the middle of the night and looking at his phone (it was like 3:00 in the morning.) I mentioned it post-D-Day and he had another quick lie (gosh, how are they so good at lying so quickly!) and said he was checking it for work as bad things happen in the middle of the night. Ugh. Yeah. And he’s in accounting.’
HA – I had many similar nights like this.
He had to be up 4am to go to work (from home) so, it was odd he was awake far later than 8pm – often til midnight texting away.
He had both his work phone (Bloomberg) and his private phone under his pillow. I would walk in and, surprised to see him still awake and on the phone texting and mention the markets aren’t open for another US hour and shouldn’t he be asleep?
Oh no, hun, I’m watching the Chinese and Japanese markets. They change all night long – see my screen full of graphs! see! SEE!
Right, that was a big eye roll moment when I actually saw the back of my skull.
Nobody works all night long and all day long at the markets.
I know that – I used to be in marketing and worked along side him.
What? He thinks I’m FUCKING STUPID????????
No wonder he was always sleeping on his time off work. Very odd behavior, btw.
Guess the GoldWhore was probably sleeping off the same exhausting texts.
Yeah – he was starting to do very poorly at work during that time.
Martha – one more thing. There’s usually some kind of cheating behind this behavior.
My ex-SIL was hosting a family reunion, however, she was never home because ‘she had to work’ at her banking job.
I found it odd since it was summer, she had been at the bank forever, and curious why she didn’t take the time off to be in on the family reunion. (always trust your suspicions when things don’t look right) Yeah, I thought it was really odd.
Not 6 months later, she has run away with a boatload of the banks money that she embezzled for the past 12 yrs (millions) and the FBI was after her since she crossed state lines.
We just all thought she made great money where she worked as she was always throwing it around, even buying herself a new mercedes.
So, if they’re up at 3am – they’re cheating.
Nothing good can happen after midnight, as the saying goes.
SheChump, what a story about your ex SIL. You don’t need to convince me. The fact that my ex got out of bed to look at his phone in the middle of the night — nothing good about it. My phone. It’s my alarm clock to wake-up in the morning as my 1980’s retro clock radio no longer rings to wake me up. Jeffrey Dahmer’s phone was going strong all night long with “accounting problems.” Give me a fucking break.
Yeah, Martha – the only vibration I heard all night and day was his stupid phone next to his penis.
Hahaha, Shechump. I’ve said the same thing to him. His phone is always tucked up close to his penis. I’m sure he like the “ping” and vibrate mode. Gotta protect the cheater phone and the precious penis.
OMG you made me laugh out loud.You are my kind of mighty person!
I loved this story. I wish I’d shot his phone. It would have given me such pleasure. As it was his screen was broken and he needed a new one. He texted me from Verizon because he no longer had administrative rights to my account. I think he was a bit shocked. What? I’m sure he was just standing there thinking, “I cheated and she is now divorcing me. Shouldn’t I at least get a new phone out of this?” What an idiot. He opened his own account to show me what a big boy he was.
Annie – ‘He texted me from Verizon because he no longer had administrative rights to my account.’
I personally find this hilarious, Annie.
I was the ‘techy’ in the family and always set up his IT equipment wherever we bought a new house – m/h, whatever.
It was my hobby and I was good at – well, dial-up. duh. (but in very remote spots of Montana so he could run the business).
Then technology became more sophisticated and I kept right up on all of it until it became disgustingly easy to find an affair online.
I got him a cell phone to keep up with his colleagues, and before you know it – he’s dug in deep with some two-faced goldwhore.
Ha, ha. It just strikes me as a big joke and so ridiculous that anybody could fall into that pit of fantasy and lose 36 yrs of history.
Don’t mess me with me buddy. You’ll be my last rodeo.
A week before I was to give birth to our 3rd child I found an email to a OW (# I’m not sure)….”I’m horny…wanna fuck?”
I had enough. Gave birth to an amazing son, took my 12 weeks maternity leave, and during that time at home I data collected, data collected, data collected. I haven’t looked back sense.
The night of DD3, after increasing incidents of inappropriate relationships with young (40 yrs younger) Hispanic girls, I kicked him out of the bedroom. I went on a planned trip alone during which time he brought girl-child into our marital home. I kicked him out of the house over the phone. Came home and changed the locks. During our short-term reconciliation, I proposed a lawyer suggested post-nup. Of course he didn’t think it was fair. Well I didn’t think it was fair that he expected me to be a doormat as he continued to text, talk, and lunch-as well as who knows what-with girl-child “just a little bit.” Restarted the divorce process next day and I got every bit of the post-nup items plus all the house items, larger part of house equity, and the respect and relationship with my adult kids and the grands. He is just a sad old man cut off from family working in the most dismal ambulance chasing2-bit law firm. He is trying to play “sad sausage” telling daughter he might not ever be able to retire cause he doesn’t have enough money. Boo f*ing hoo. Meanwhile I am planning my 2 week trip to France and retirement party cruise to Alaska with kids and grands. Meh meh meh……me!
Woohoo, Happily ever after! Bon voyage!
Yay! I hope you have the best trips ever and enjoy every minute of a new life without such a horrible man. You can only hope he works himself into an early grave.
Yay! Traveling mercies! You deserve it.
They are shallow and stupid. I’ll bet he wasn’t thinking about his retirement when he was screwing his putaria. Idiot. He sucks. You rock!
Awesome!! Have a great vacation!! And can I make a future topic blog post suggestion? Happily never after brought up Sad Sausage again. Someone posted a meme of a sad sausage a few months back. Oh, did I ever laugh at that one! The picture is actually the background picture on my work computer. I laugh every time I see it. Anyway…..not sure if the topic has been done before, but how about a post where we can all share our exes sad sausage moments?
My current husband has never, that I know of, had an extramarital affair. However, I got cheated on so badly in my dating life, and by my first husband, that trust is still a big issue in my life.
I’ve told the story before here about how he was having a dalliance with a nurse while I was in the hospital recovering from giving birth to our daughter, so I will tell another story…this is about Bob.
Bob was a guy I met after my divorce. He love bombed me like mad, and was fun and interesting and seemingly tolerant of the fact that I had children. However, there was this woman, Pam, who he was supposedly “really good friends” with. She was married, and worked at the same university Bob did. They spent an inordinate amount of time together, but he’d always assure me it was friendly and not more than that, and anyway, she was married.
For months, he would dismiss my concerns and rumbling gut feelings, making me think maybe I was just an insecure, ragingly jealous, irrational woman. This went on from March through June. I was getting ready to start law school that fall, and when we were together, he was all full of plans on how we would spend my big lawyer bucks, where we’d live, future children, etc.
Then he’d take Pam to university doings. Once a famous author came to campus. I’d been involved in the theater program there, and had helped with a play based on a book this author had written, but he took Pam to the “meet the author” dinner, leaving me at home to drink, wallow, and wonder.
Finally, one hot evening in June when I’d just gotten my kids bathed and put to bed, he showed up with a six pack of expensive beer, and he told me, “I have something to confess…I do see Pam.”
My heart crumbled, and something inside me broke, but, he wanted to continue seeing me, also. It occurred to me that I was the side chick, which was a horrible feeling, but I was so invested and so lonely and quite “in love”, so I put up with that degradation.
Until I flew out west for a vacation, my last hurrah before the demands of law school. I’d promised either to call or write every day, but, after two days, I just…didn’t. We all went to a baseball game, and at the stadium, I remember telling this intriguing guy I’d been introduced to that I had a shit storm awaiting me back East. Something changed inside me that day, and I decided No More.
I didn’t call Bob upon my return, and after I’d been home a few days, he called, acting all perplexed and confused that I hadn’t called or sent the promised post cards. I told him that I just couldn’t deal, and he asked if he could come over “so we could talk.” I said yeah, come on by, I’d gotten him a couple gifts out there before my epiphany, so he came by and I made it clear that we were O-V-E-R unless and until he dropped Pam. He acted like I was being mean and unreasonable, but I stuck to it, and…
Within a couple weeks, following a chance encounter, I began dating his best friend! (That eventually went ugly, too, but it felt like what I needed at the time, and it was emphatically *not* revenge dating. I wound up loving Paul way more than I’d ever cared for Bob. Paul wound up playing fast and loose with our relationship, too, but at the time, it felt healthier than the Bob stuff. Paul died about a year after we began dating, but our relationship had deteriorated before he did. We never got the chance, really, to see if we could fix things.)
So, the tl;dr is that I decided to drop my two-timing boyfriend,who was sleeping with a married woman, and I dated his best friend.
Forgot to say that I sat there at the hospital with Bob when the doctors took Paul off life support, and held him and let him sob in my arms for hours, until Pam showed up. He was absolutely wrecked; those two were closer than brothers.
The moment I knew it was over was one month after she asked for a divorce yet denied there was anyone else. I saw an inappropriate phone message from a complete stranger. I googled him and found out he was an old high school boyfriends that she’d never, ever, mentioned. I checked her messenger comments with him and knew it was done. They had been planning this for a while. After that I started the ball rolling and let my adult daughters know about him. Took another 5 months to sell the house and go our separate ways, but I knew it was done. It sucked the life out of me for 3 years now, but I’m finally healing enough to plan my future. It’s a great life I’m in without her.
Fucking bitch…just like my ex wife…after 24 years..the woman I thought I knew now sneaking and lying and cheating, never letting her iPhone out of her sight, literally welded to her hand..slept with it on the couch with a power cord so it wouldn’t die..2 1/2 years out now and complete NC for must be over a year (I’ve lost track) and life is pretty good.
Fucking bitch
Yep – it’s a fucking cheater who uses the phone you bought them so they could have easy access to you and their business easier, that used that phone as a bloody weapon on 36 yrs of marriage.
I haven’t read the post yet of somebody shooting the phone?
I sure wish I had of.
To answer one of my stupid first therapists on why I should take 50% blame for the problems in our marriage….you know, 50% my fault for his cheating response. I should have said I never should have bought him a mobile phone!
Cheap asshole way to cheat, alright.
I wish I’d shot his phone. I’m too damn level headed around guns. But I’d wish I’d shot it. I also wish I knew about the whole cell phone as an indicator thing. Everyone made fun of Fucktard because his cell phone was always in his hand. No one could use it either. I was always leaving mine laying around and when someone needed to make a call I’d hand them my phone give them my password to unlock it. Everyone new my password. I only had one in case I left it laying around in public. I had one on my work phone too, but it was the same as my personal cell.
Oh, and I’ll say it too. Fucking Bitch!
Annie – ‘I wish I’d shot his phone’.
NAH. That’s too violent for the dogs – such a loud noise.
I like the poster who said she peed on it and put it back.
BWAHA!
THIS is the reason I think the Number One Red FLAG of guarding your phone is a big indicator of an affair.
My X wouldn’t touch one as he was anti-technology, until I handed him one and he was immediately immersed.
We were camping with friends, lying in our own sleeping bags in our shared tent, after dark. He said he felt ready to have a child, I responded that I was post menopausal, he said he could find someone else. That’s when I realized how easily he would discard me, after a decade of my support and staying despite worsening verbal abuse and behaviors. I laid awake that night and the next for hours scheming how to extract myself from my marriage despite being broke. I was so enmeshed with him and surrounded by long married folks who never saw the kind of treatment I was living with, I stayed for a couple more years to try to work on the marriage with everything I could think of.
Then a couple weeks before I decided to divorce he changed personality overnight and became a dream husband, for 10 days or so, until I refused again to sign the home equity loan. I realized he treated me abusively because he wanted to, that it wasn’t sad sausage lost in mental illness, and then that he’s legally competent. Still took almost a year to completely extricate myself legally and financially. No longer my monkey burden.
Validated,
Having the inner strength to plan your exit is empowering. Well done for staying strong so long. It pays to let your head overrule your heart.
Yeh, mine was farking on company time, a colleague… but better still, OW threatened me by email, using her office account. So, when the cops saw that, they approached HR, interviewed both of them, reduced Cheater to tears (big wimp he was) and OW got “let go” the same day. The jobs they had weren’t much to begin with, but it was fun to watch because there was an anonymous blogger in their office who described it all after the fact. The cops also related the story to me; they even felt Cheater was a complete fool and got everything he deserved (a bitchy, loser OW).
I never did find out who that anonymous blogger was, since he/she was shut down by a company injunction because they exposed more than just my Cheater/OW situation about that company. Turns out that workplace was full of bad behaviour.
No, once I put a keylogger on MY laptop and Cheater had the audacity to use it to contact OW, I went from luvved-up to scorched-earth in a millisecond. I was disgusted and spent several days dreaming up the best possible dumping I could do.
The icing on the cake was when OW’s victory dance consisted of harassing emails directed at me. She buried herself, and btw hasn’t worked a day since. Just thinking about it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling these days.
I love this story!
+1 !!
First moment of mightiness (after decades of tolerating BS): I looked in his computer bag for his missing wallet, and found 6 condoms plus 4 pages of notes preparing himself for a sexual harassment hearing for an affair with a graduate student 8 years prior. Notes also contained info on an affair with an undergraduate. I took snapshots of the notes, put the condoms on the bed with a paper that said, “We are over. Go to a hotel.”
He refused to leave–it was just an EA, blah blah blah. The undergrad? “I never so much as held her hand!” I immediately moved into the guest room. Cheater leaves for China 3 days later for a conference, taking a NEW sluttress with him (which I don’t discover until well after the divorce is final). He returns from China 2 weeks later; I can’t take co-existing and say one of us has to leave. He goes to a hotel (finally!), thinking he is coming home in a few days after I’ve cooled off.
Another month of naugahyde remorse, alternating with “you caused me to have an affair because you weren’t listening to me [read: “obeying”]. Weekly I say I want a divorce, causing more hoovering and at crunch time, he says he will make a MC appointment. When he cancels the second MC appointment, I file pro se, Monday morning, 9 a.m.
More begging & then the second moment of rebellion: After I file, he vows to go to the MC himself (I won’t go), then wants to meet to tell me about it. I arrive at his apartment to a candlelit dinner, with champagne. Clearly he is clueless, so I test him on the “transparency” that the MC advocated. “What was gradwhore’s name?” He gets stony, tells me he won’t tell me, and that a friend said he should not tell me because gradwhore has “privacy rights.” Pretty sure FERPA doesn’t cover sleeping with my husband, so I go to the car, get the divorce petition for him to sign and submit to the court. Worst night of my life because of his power & manipulation, but the final straw that led to Liberation.
His arrogance reeks like rotten meat. It steams me….why not take YOU to China?
I dont know if he is still in academia, but he does not deserve those highly coveted jobs.
Did he win his sexual harrassment hearing?
Yes, Hannibal is still in academia with a highly paid, named chair, and international reputation.
The sexual harassment suit the U knew about was deemed not sexual harassment because gradwhore admitted it was consensual (she tried to seduce another married professor the following semester–sleeping her way to the top, I guess), and she was not under his supervisory aegis in any capacity. There are at least two other legitimate sexual harassment cases that could be brought against him (I am holding that evidence, should I ever need it).
Why not take me to China, indeed, especially since I have studied Chinese language & history for years? Because the conference was in September and I stayed home to take care of the children who were in school, and to perform my academic job. The coldness of taking his new slutress (now his GF) to China 3 days after D-day haunts me, and makes me want to deposit him in grizzly country with salmon oil rubbed all over him. And chumpy me? Encouraged him to go to the conference early so that he could travel to the Great Wall.
His moniker is so apt. If I get a terminal illness….We may have to send these two on one way flight to Katmai island off the Alaskan coast. I can be their tour guide.
What? That’s an urban myth! They really are like big dogs!!! I slipped some unwrapped Snickers in jackets for snacks. Go try and approach them! I will get photos for your FB. Run along!!!
That tickles me. When you posted about slipping the butchered wrapped salmon INSIDE of their tent was the first time I laughed yesterday.
We have to laugh so we dont ride the crazy train.
I’m that crazy guy laughing alone while riding the crazy train.
Here I am on the Metro.
This is EXACTLY how we pictured you, Ian. Thanks for sharing.
OMG!
As I was picturing you as an older Charlie Sexton Austin hipster…but with no tats.
(Your list serve!)
I love the blissed out look on that old man’s face. At least some one is happy.
*Beat So Lonely…by Charlie Sexton…Perfection!
Ian ya did it again! Made me spit ma coffee!!! Hahahahahahahaha!
Yes exactly right. Well, except I thought it would be a fedora instead of a cap. But otherwise, spot on.
Oh, my! LOL! Once again, I can’t believe people like this exist and they show themselves out in public like this. Ian, you are so handsome. lol
Thank you all so much for the compliment. I work hard to make sure my body looks so good. But I am one of the lucky ones. I am bald, so I am more Woody Harrelson or Jude Law than this guy. But I do enjoy the occasional foray out on the Metro in women’s lingerie. 😉
I picture all of you ladies in the most exciting ways. You are all beautiful, perfect and devastatingly sexy to me. On any given day I seem to have a crush on at least one of y’all.
Aw shucks. Good thoughts to you ian.
Aww….blushing too, Ian.
You had me at your favorite ‘breakfast’.
You’re the best.
Well, not so quick to the punch, me……I had to have shit shoveled down my throat half a world away in South Africa. Once we got back from there (20 something hour plane ride later), I left and drove back home another 4 hours.
I saw him only 1 other time when I dumped everything he ever gave me in 10 years back to him.
But did I quit hoping? Oh hell no! I’m so mad at myself now for falling just shy of begging. Never did that though, whoopee!! I have one great feat under my belt!
So slowly but surely it’s just taken a whole lot of daily CL/CN reading to get me to this place. It feels unbelievable. It literally feels like I was blind and now I can see……CLEARLY!! Kinda freaky really.
The only drawback for me is that I never got to blow up and let it out to the fuckface. Nope, instead he got away with murdering my soul…….now I’m left with lots of really ill feelings that are spilling over into my life now.
Oh well, hopefully the hate will pass. Hasn’t yet, 3 years later.
IHaveHate–my hatred is still strong, too, 2 years out, but it’s less salient as I have replaced the old life with the new. I know you have a particular reason for continuing to hate, which is totally understandable. Logical, even.
But do not let it spill over into your life; you are worth more than that. Don’t let him have any more power, or rob you of a worthwhile life. Neither he nor his memory deserves your vitality.
I’m sorry; I know the hatred can be overwhelming, and is justified. Do whatever adventurous thing you can to elevate yourself beyond what he did to you. Big hugs!
IHaveHate, I was able to unleash my anger on him and I have sent him way too many hate emails. It felt good to get it out! But you can still do the same without sending them. There is something cathartic and healing by writing it all down. I know we do this at CN, but I’ve even written stuff to Jeffrey Dahmer that I’ve never written on CN or told anyone else. It was like “I know about this and that” and “When you did this and that”. It felt good to write that shit down. Also, another thing that I wish I knew about when I had all the anger and rage — boxing for fitness. I went through a stage where I just wanted to punch and break stuff. Boxing would have been a great way to channel all that anger and energy. I’m still thinking about joining, because I think it would be a fun way to get into shape. I’m not telling you what to do. Just wanted to share things that helped me process the hatred.
I think each one of us has that “eureka” moment in any relationship when something happens and we just “know” it’s over. Then our anxieties about security, love, money and kids get the best of us and we start making excuses to delay the inevitable. It really just takes one good chumping to knock that silliness out of most of us, although the pain and time involved is heartbreaking.
I was sitting with two younger female colleagues today. BOTH of them were in the midst of pick-me dancing over boyfriends who were clearly character-disabled cheaters. I directed them to this site to kick some sense into them. It’s amazing what clarity sets in after a few months of CL tutelage.
I was at what I know was the “discard while gaslighting” stage. I had borrowed a lot of money out of my retirement to fix up a house we were supposed to share. There had been signs of change in the summer, but (having my spackle handy) I had figured it was all about the stress of moving and of really starting a new life. By summer’s end, he was hemming and hawing and making excuses about leaving early, not finishing projects, etc. He was doing that passive-aggressive complaining about something, hinting around that he didn’t want to spend the night, etc. (By this time OW was on the scene, as I learned later). I was trying to be reasonable, accommodating, understanding–but I was feeling scared and confused. Finally he pushed me to the point where I shouted, “Get out! Just get out! If you don’t want to be here, get out!” Which he did.
I immediately went from scared to panicky, and of course, later he used this moment to explain why he needed distance from me. But time, no contact and study at Chump Nation U has helped me see this moment as a moment of total clarity. He didn’t want to be there. I knew that on a fundamental level. And it took a few more months for me to understand that I was being discarded, as he is a king in the nation of mixed messagers and gaslighters. But I look back at that moment and know, for sure, that if I ever have those feelings again, he would leave and I wouldn’t take him back.
My X always (mis)managed our finances, which I trusted him to do until I discovered, purely by accident, some odd withdrawals from one of our accounts. Every time I tried to get the passwords to our accounts, he would distract me with lies about how much money we were putting away for retirement (I was a SAHM at that point), how well our accounts were doing, etc., and how there is nothing to see here, everything is great!
I bought his BS until it occurred to me, duh, that if he stroked out and died the next day, I would have no way of getting into our accounts, the passwords for which were stored inside his computer, which I also did not have the password to, as that was the motherlode of all of his hidden activities, financial and otherwise. When I pointed this out, he said, “Oh, don’t be silly, if I die just go to the safe deposit box at the bank. There’s piece of paper there with all of our passwords.”
I was enough of a chump that he obviously believed I would not go to the bank to check. I did. Of course there was no piece of paper in the safe deposit box with the passwords written on it. When I confronted him he said, “Now you’re just making shit up, that’s crazy–who would even do something like that?! You’re fucking crazy!” That was the first time his raging blameshifting and gaslighting didn’t work on me and I just stood there demanding the passwords, a la ChompingChump, only instead of replying GET TESTED to each line of bullshit he tried to feed me, I just kept saying GIVE ME THE PASSWORDS until he finally did.
Apparently he still trusted my chumpdom since he didn’t bother trying to change the passwords until a few weeks later. By then I had downloaded every single page of every single financial account we had, going back ten years. It was a chump’s treasure trove of disordered cheater financial abuse, everything from secret stashes of cash, to hidden money, gifts of stock from his rich old gay lover, six figure credit card debt, and more! (Can you say, “tax fraud”?)
He continued to give me cockamamie (no pun intended) excuses for it all, but I had the passwords and wouldn’t give them back until I had locked up control of our finances. It was the kick in the ass I needed to start lining up my ducks, which began with rebuilding my credit rating and documenting the financial abuse. That hurt him big time when it came time to settle. I’ll never get back the tens of thousands of dollars he pissed away, but I did end up with huge chunks of accounts he tried to claim as family gifts, while he ended up with the remaining $35,000 in credit card debt.
Was he on the downlow too?
Remember, for anyone using a Mac, you can go up and click on Safari (beside File), then click Preferences. There will be a tab Passwords. It defaults to save ALL passwords. They are dotted out, but you can check…show passwords.
Thank you, Sylvia–that is really helpful to know! And yes, he was on the down-low, still is and from what I hear is looking for his next beard.
I went from sobbing on the floor that he wouldn’t pick me to realizing that this was the wrong question….the questions were: Who is this person, really? Do I still want him? and If so, under what circumstances? This was a total reversal: I now have the power, because I know (and he knows) that I, not him, control what I think and feel about his behavior and how I respond to it.
This personal revelation took about a month. Infidelity became my new intellectual “hobby” (fascinating, really, damn…was I naive). I read widely, including CL and CN’s posts. I realized that cheaters all pretty much engage in the same behaviors when they are trying to disguise (from themselves and others) what they are doing and when they want to feel justified about what they are doing. Bameshifting, gaslighting, minimizing (a form of denial), telling only half the story (a form of lying), etc, I realized that he was trying to control not just my thoughts about his behavior (by telling me that the problem was me or that I was over-reacting to the EA), but how I felt about it (by telling me not to cry, etc.). I then rejected all of that.
I started by specifically letting him know that I, not him, control my responses to his choices (“I feel no obligation to you anymore since you broke your promise and I, not you, will decide if I stay in this marriage and under what terms”…”I, not you, will decide what I think about your behavior”…”I, not you, will decide how I feel about your behavior and I will cry/sob when I want and as much as I want”…and, perhaps the 4 most powerful words in the English language “I don’t believe that”). I also started specifically calling him out on certain tactics (that he probably didn’t even realize he did..he realizes it now, and has stopped) : “When you just said X and then twisted it around like it was my fault and not yours, that was blameshifting. I find this very disturbing and I won’t tolerate it.”
Husband now realizes that when he made the choices (not “mistakes”) he made to betray our relationship, he voluntarily (albeit unknowingly…too fucking bad!) gave up power and control and that none of his previous tactics to disguise his actions from himself or others work on me. There is no place to hide. This power was there for me all along…it just took me a bit to see it and seize it.
Not sure how things will work out…husband in unicorn mode (behavior comports with Genuine and not Naugahyde remorse) and I’m taking a wait-and-see approach. Regardless of what happens, I know I’ll be fine. I’m a little older and a helluva lot wiser.
So much great stuff in today’s posts, but this is gold: “I went from sobbing on the floor that he wouldn’t pick me to realizing that this was the wrong question….the questions were: Who is this person, really? Do I still want him? and If so, under what circumstances? This was a total reversal: I now have the power, because I know (and he knows) that I, not him, control what I think and feel about his behavior and how I respond to it.”
Just be careful…my STBX played the part of remorse and complete honesty through an intense marriage program for a year and a half before reverting right back to his “married single life”. Even told me later that he only went through all that just to get back in the house. I have since discovered a lot of other lies he told me, too. He was VERY convincing. So much so that I thought our relationship was better than ever and he kept saying that he was happier than he ever had been. I even have a 6 month old that came along completely unplanned at age 44 as a result of our wreckonciliation. STBX walked out when I was 6 months pregnant after 20 years of marriage and 2 other kids. He then promptly took up with a 23 year old I now suspect he had been involved with since around the time I got pregnant. I would rather be single for the rest of my life than be married to that any longer.
Free Scientist,
I admire your courage to admit you are giving your cheater another chance with a wait and see approach. About 1.5 years ago, my cheater was caught in a huge web of lies and I broke up with him. He spent MONTHS…..MONTHS….begging me to take him back. He wrote me 20 page letter by hand. He is a high school drop out. I say this to show he has probably never written more than a check out in his life. He could have won Academy Awards for the apologies and frantic explanations I received. He never waivered from his script or his remorse.
He sent me cards, expensive jewelry, new tires for my Mercedes, pressure washed my whole house. He swore on his parent’s graves nothing ever happened. He cleaned my house from top to bottom, scrubbed my tubs, mowed my mother’s yard.
*He would listen to me for hours and hours harangue, questions, sob, rage and the works at him.
And you see I am on this site and what happened to me.
I just felt the need to warn you. I know you said researching infidelity is your hobby and that you are in control.
Listen to me: You are not in control when you are tangling with a cheater. He is. I am not trying to be ugly. I am trying to help you. NO ONE reads more than me. I don’t have a TV…I am a reading fool. But being an expert on cheating….your new knowledge…it means nothing. It does not change their nature.
You are playing a dangerous game with your life. I would be gravely hesitate to grant a chance to someone who had a one night stand. But a sustained pattern of deception?
This sounds harsh, but I don’t think any cheater TRULY cares about the person they cheated on. I think your “toughness” that you describe probably gives your cheater a good laugh. It made me sad for you.
Take away ALL incentives for him to stay. Make him pay you $50,000 reparations for hurting you. It is not your problem how he gets the money. Make him sign a post nup saying that if he cheats again, he forfeits every single asset in the marriage and assumes all liabilities.
As long as it is not illegal, (like slavery) it is a legal and binding contract.
I read your confidence and bravado, and the cheater lingo, but it concerns me for you. Don’t fall for it like I did. If I had CUT IT OFF with him when that first fishy episode happened, when my gut was screaming RUN!….I would:
*still have a high paying, prestigious job
*have my health insurance
* not have to fight crippling depression and hopelessness, coupling with hatred and intrusive thoughts
* not have been given an STD
*not have lost three years of my life.
You said regardless what happens…you will be fine. Are you sure?
Please be careful. They are sicker than you smart. You can’t outplay them. Because they don’t care.
Spot on! Mine lied to me and told me DDay#1 was a one night stand and when he left for 3 weeks, he was staying with a friend. I believed him with everything else he was doing to change and make it up to me. Almost 3 years later, (after he cheated on me again and I refused to let him back in the house), he revealed that he had been staying with OW#1 the entire time he was gone. One night stand…complete lie. Entire reconciliation was a lie. Now I have another kid who will have to be involved in this messed up situation.
Sylvia is Sad is right. Get a post nup. I didn’t know about that and didn’t get one. Now, I am trying to find assets he has spent or tried to hide over the last 3 years…
GetMeFree and Sylvia-
I do appreciate the advice of you both and the sharing of your experiences.
Yes-I know giving him another chance is very high risk with a very low chance of success.
This is like a type of cancer where the chemo is really awful and the odds of success are still low. I am treading hopefully, but carefully and warily, under the assumption that such is possible.
He finally admitted to an EA after months of denial. He consistently denies any PA. I cannot prove there was no PA. I will likely never be able to prove there was no PA (but if any evidence surfaces indicating there is/was, I will divorce him immediately). He knew a PA was wrong (that such would be going “too far”), but did not know what an EA was (neither did I…ugh, I do now) or that it was a form of betrayal (e.g. flirty behavior and OW calling/texting him at home and him telling me all about how fabulous she is…just a friend and all harmless fun, right?). The weight of the evidence, and statistics, indicate to me that odds are, there was more going on than an EA. The uncertainty of this is something I still have to decide if I can live with. This is quite a dillerma for me. On the one hand, I think it’s awful to accuse people of something they didn’t do (I strongly believe that it is better to let a guilty man go free than to convict an innocent one). On the other hand, if a person engages in appearances of impropriety, they ought not to be very shocked when they aren’t believed.
I am taking steps to make sure that if the most likely outcome occurs (e.g. he relapses and or I find out that more was going on), I will indeed be financially and otherwise OK. I had explored the post-nup idea (counselor advised against it) but may re-consider it, as I do think it is a wise idea.
I was particularly surprised and concerned to read of GetMetFree’s husband going along to get along for so very long…1.5 years…before reverting to type. That is the longest I had heard of anyone pulling that off without any apparent red flags (e.g. still blaming the chump partially or in total, denying, etc.).
I can see why my post would sound like bravado, but what this awful experience has done for me is to help me set better boundaries in all of my relationships. I really had been letting other people influence what I felt and what I thought in intimate relationships, even though I don’t do that in other areas (e.g. science). I’m a very independent and strong willed person, but obviously I have some blind spots in that area. My eyes are now very much opened to how and how often people try to manipulate others. (My value system is that we try to convince others of truth through reason in which the other person may or may not voluntarily see our point of view, not by coercion or manipulation). It has also helped me to better identify a lot of “red flag” behaviors that people in different kinds of relationships (e.g. intimate partner, family, workplace, etc.) engage in that had previously gone right over my head.
Yes you are clearly very smart. I think that can work against us. Because we think and reason. I believe they operate on hedonistic impulse.
*I hope he is genuinely changed*
Sending you positive and hopeful vibes.☺☺☺
This is definitely true in my case. I too would categorize myself as strong willed and independent. The plus side is that transitioning to being a single parent and in charge of finances and the home hasn’t been too hard. The truth is that I was doing most of it beforehand anyways.
Freescientist71 – there were some red flags, but I wrote them off as someone working on change that wasn’t perfect. Plus, he was a master of lovebombing. You are ahead of where I was after the first affair. I read everything about reconciliation and I bought into the idea that his one night stand was the result of our marriage getting to a bad place. I was not aware that I had and continued to be lied to and manipulated, and if I am honest, to a certain extent our entire relationship. You are. Good luck. I do believe that there are marriages that can be saved after betrayal, but it is rare. It took no contact (except to make arrangements to see the kids) for me to start recognizing what all he had done. Now that he realizes I will never take him back, his mask has come down and it is not pretty. There is no other way to describe him except mentally disordered.
My Krakatoa came after a meticulously explained away “emotional affair” in a private Facebook group where everyone was backing each other up because NO ONE wanted to lose the ego strokes this woman was giving every lonely old, marginally employed, dude.
My mistake was to believe my then husbands cries of “it’s not what you think!” Just make sure to cover yourself freescientist71- I was walking around like a CIA operative checking and verifying everything in sight and out of sight and he STILL got away with shit that scorched my eyebrows off when I finally saw them.
Thank you…drives home the idea that I can get still get burned even if I think I know what is going on.
Hey freescientist, Saddam pulled off fooling me for 10 years after the initial cheat, and yeah that first time I fell for the no actual sex bullshit. Don’t waste the best years of your life with an asshole, stop now. Let him go and find someone you don’t have to fix. You are fooling yourself, what you really think is that you can fix this. Why waste time with someone you know has betrayed your trust? Srsly, don’t be like so many of us. Stop trying to fix him. Jedi hugs!
10 years…wow…I need to think about this. Damn, this is hard. Thank you.
You’re not alone. I am also working on a unicorn, I think pretty much all chumps do. We all need to feel sure that we gave our best to the situation, that we can walk away knowing we really really really can’t fix it. May I ask why your
Counsellor advised against a post nup? Is it a couples counsellor or a personal? I don’t know why anyone who is getting paid to help a person get to healing would advise against something which would protect them. If it’s a couples counsellor, be aware that they are not always about what is best for the individual, they are about what’s most comfortable for everyone. If cheater is uncomfortable with a predetermined settlement *if* he cheats again, that’s something he should work through with his individual counsellor because it means he either wants to cheat again, or thinks he will, or feels like he’s entitled to do so. That’s off side and has 0 to do with you, the person who was wronged in the first place and protecting your ass and your assets while you give him the chance to change because frankly you don’t owe him anything. I am trudging through all this bullshit and I come here every day for a reality check on “there’s a very good chance your asshat will always be an asshat” and keep me focused on ME getting to ok. Not us as a couple. Because my capacity as a partner is severely stymied by my hurt and trauma, I can’t be an ok partner until I figure out and heal a bit of me. For once it’s totally ok to say “it’s not about we, it’s about me. Once I decide I’m not going to be a raging ball of sad, then we can review of we still work”
Creativerational-sorry took me so long to see your message. Not sure exactly what MC’s rationale was for advising against post-nup. Perhaps the rationale is that was not seen as a positive thing? I am more than a bit wary of MCs…but I do trust this one (because he does not seem to buy into the “oh, so let’s discuss what you did to contribute to your spouse’s EA” rationale). Regardless of MCs professional opinion, I am definitely going to re-visit this. Husband is agreeable (which I see as a positive sign of sincerity and would take as a big red flag if he weren’t). The way I see it, the problem for me is that reconciliation shifts most of the risk onto me, even though have already been wronged. For me to feel that things are fair and just, more risk (if not most of the risk) has to be shifted onto him going forward so that I am not in even worse shape if things don’t work out. (After all, I have already been injured, and voluntarily staying to work on this, even though I feel no obligation to do so). So, I am going to pursue the post-nup option and try to find an attorney with experience with it in my state.
I do appreciate your concern and am sorry that you find yourself in a similar situation. I would like to save my marriage, but I can’t completely control that. I do absolutely, however, have to make sure I will be OK.
*After all, I have already been injured..”.
That is, injured in an emotional (but never a physical) sense. Hurt feelings. Sadness by spouse’s behavior.
“Risk” above meaning financial risk.
Felt it wise to make sure those things were clear so that there are no misunderstandings.
If anyone else here has done a postnup, that would be good to know. Again, I don’t know what’s possible in my state.
Just 2 months ago, my STBX tried to say that I must have cheated on him too when I used to travel for work. That was over 15 years ago and before kids. I could barely respond. Does he just assume everyone is a cheater? And then a light bulb went off. He was projecting…which means that he probably cheated on me that long ago, too.
These people have no moral compass. And they do impression management VERY well. Plus, their version of reality constantly changes to justify their actions.
I know people whose marriages have overcome betrayal and survived for the long haul. Just continue to proceed with caution. Pay attention to your gut. Even though it felt like our marriage was better during wreckonciliation, I still had times of uneasiness. All the books and the marriage program leaders said that would happen for 2-3 years as you learned to trust your spouse again. Now, I wish I had paid closer attention to that feeling. Chump Lady calls it hopium and it is powerful. Set your boundaries and determine what is not acceptable. Then hold him accountable. There can be no easing of those boundaries or he will continue to push those boundaries farther out. If he truly wants your marriage above all else, he will stick to those boundaries.
I should have also mentioned that if he wants your marriage but not above all else, he will cross those boundaries. Then you will know.
GetMeFree-Thank you. The big question right now is how much time to wait before deciding for good. Some very nice people here have been kind enough to share their stories of known D-Day #2s 1.5 years, 6 years, 10 years out with no apparent red flags. This information is very sobering. This is the last try I’m willing to give marriage (I was married before and it totally sucked for me) but I’m scared about having this happen again after investing that much time (I had assumed that I would know, for sure or pretty confidently, much sooner than that…so did other people, apparently…ughhhh.).
Freescientist, I also gradually set better and better boundaries with my ex, with the result that our relationship became much better, our kids and I were much happier and were treating him super well. He seemed happier too, was talking often about our future, our sex life had picked back up again….
Then he went out of town for work, it was to be 4 days a week there, three at home, for several months. Within a few weeks he was fucking a colleague at the out-of-town worksite. I’m sure he thought I’d never know. (I think it took me two weeks to catch on.)
So 6 years after Affair #1, there was Affair #2. After I kicked him out, he admitted that he had SUPER resented my boundary setting, and hadn’t actually changed his attitude about anything; he’d just zipped his lips while having the same negative, critical, entitled thoughts, in order to keep the situation he wanted.
I finally realized that I didn’t want to be in a relationship where I had to keep clear boundaries. I want to be in one where my partner behaves well for the same reasons I do; because they are a loving, caring, honest, responsible person. Perfection is not required, empathy is.
I hope things go better for you than they did for me.
KarenE. Wow. Thank you for telling me this. 6 years?
What you wrote KarenE, is just fantastic:
“I finally realized that I didn’t want to be in a relationship where I had to keep clear boundaries. I want to be in one where my partner behaves well for the same reasons I do; because they are a loving, caring, honest, responsible person.”
This went in my journal.
They know what is right. They know what is wrong. I hate the whole mystified….puzzled…I guess we need therapy??? What I did…was wrong? What is the therapy for? To teach an adult how NOT to be asshole?
If something is secretive, underground, furtive….it is a big ole ball of rotten.
That is the bottom line. Full stop.
Yes…my stomach went into knots for her. It is a terrible knowledge to learn they can lie and the sincerity just leaks from pores. They dont have moral stop signs. Not even a caution light.
GetMeFree and Sylvia-
Thank you both. I agree that saving a marriage after betrayal is rare. That this is a high risk. It’s so very tough to weigh the odds and other people’s experiences, evaluate uncertainties, and try to determine what the best course of action is in one’s own particular situation…especially when one knows that one is likely biased. I might find out in the future that I wasted time and had to go through yet another round of betrayal, or I might find that husband’s changes are permanent. So far, his behavior is consistent with introspection and change (and I do have the help of an unbiased professional to advise me on this).
If the marriage doesn’t work out, I will be sinking that amount of energy, passion, and work that a marriage requires into other things….travel, writing, career, friends, pets, etc..things I am doing now, but for which there will be more time if there isn’t a marriage. (I’m mid 40s, child-free by choice and I will not marry again. It’s a lot of work!). So, it’s risk I’m taking with a back-up plan in place. There are many successful and inspiring women that I admire with rich lives and legacies that did not include marriage and/or family, and if I’m ultimately one of them, I’m OK with that. I have, in many ways “let it go”, and I will wait and see what happens.
I am so greatful for the helpful, good people on this forum. When my faith in humanity starts to waiver, I come to CN.
Free Scientist,
I am working on a book (ONE DAY I WILL FINISH) and one of my chapter is called:
The Mistakes You Have to Make.
Sometimes, there are just some things you have to do, and let the chips fall as they will. Many people warned me about Good Time Charlie. Honestly, unless a cult interventionist had kidnapped me, in the thick of it, no one could talk me out of it.
I did not want to say this, but since others did, my X also said ALL of the women blowing his phone up were just friends. It was just Emotional. This is from the 23 year old to the 55 years olds, who called and called and called. This includes the one where I found texts about her pussy and his dick. It still makes my stomach roll to type those foul words.
I explained to him that he was sharing energy with other woman, and this was cheating. Emotional, sexual, financial…that was MY energy.
You are forewarned and aware, and this is good. You will not be so thrown for a loop, IF (AND I HOPE IT DOES NOT!!!) he does it again.
I know it is so hard to read people forecasting doom and gloom. I hope it did not make you feel bad. I believe we feel like we are waving flashlights, warning you that the road is washed out ahead, and to be careful.
You are sharp as a tack and you know what is best for YOU. I just hate for you to live a life of hyper vigilance. I wish you EVERY GOOD THOUGHT.
Sylvia, it is quite alright. I appreciate your honest advice. The people on this forum are so good because they tell other chumps things they might not want to hear, but that they need to hear. Most of our off-line friends and family won’t even do that…afraid to make waves and not objective/Switzerland-y. It’s better to be told one is walking into a mine field and could get blown up then to have people sit on the sidelines with popcorn and watch the show.
I have been reading (up above) some of the other comments from people who have been kind enough to let me know they had D-Day #2s 1.5 years, 6 years, 10 years out when everything seemed resolved. It’s clear that I have to figure out how much time and how much information I think I need before I can decide confidently enough not to kick myself for it later and also to be honest with myself if I think I can endure this again. This is the last chance I’m willing to give marriage, but the thought of “relapse” happening up to 10 years out scares the ever living shit out of me…even though I would not marry again, there would be a lot of things I could do during the time and effort that this marriage will require. I figured I would “know” with a fairly high degree of confidence 1 year or 2 years out from D-Day #1, and that everything would be over after that, one way or another. Now, hearing from other people about their experiences, I’m not so sure.
I’m perhaps “smart” about some complex things… but not at all “smart” in this area. This is unchartered for me. I never used to worry that my husband was cheating…in spite of long separations for professional reasons. Figured he was with me because he wanted to be…if you love something set it free!…be the supportive, cool spouse that everyone wants and I won’t have to worry!…never wanted to be anyone’s warden or the CIA, FBI, or KGB…figured we’d both be adult enough to end the relationship before moving on….blah, blah, blah. In other words, I was idealistic instead of realistic and I didn’t at all account for cake.
I’m afraid I’m going to over-react and throw a marriage away to someone I do love (why the fuck I do, I can’t fathom…it isn’t rational!) when it could be saved. I’m afraid I’m going to be re-chumped. I’ve been a ball-buster about boundaries and consequences and a keen observer about what he does to see if I can get a handle on whether or not his changes are legit. Hardest decision I’ve ever had to make. I wish I had solid evidence about whether or not EA was a PA. Would make my life so much easier.
Thank you to all for well wishes on this. I’ll keep you posted.
Freescientist – ‘ I wish I had solid evidence about whether or not EA was a PA. Would make my life so much easier.’
I think that would be just awful not to have proof of the scummy affair in the end.
Painful as it is.
Yes, proof would make your mind know and settle it down.
I didn’t have any proof other than GPS survey and a partial admission that said….but we never had intercourse! but, but but. Ya right.
The day I kicked him to the curb, I was de-lousing the bed he slept in.
Yeah the one he kept the sheets cleaned every time I came home from a trip.
He had that separate bed since he needed to text all night long, I guess.
As I was delousing, I tore all the blankets off the bed, that were oversized for the bed, and – well…there was a pair of black cheap lace panties.
OK….so you didn’t have intercourse. I see.
That was the only evidence I really had because he never tore that bed (or she didn’t) fully apart to wash ALL the blankets and not just sheets.
I’m pretty sure she left those ugly old panties in the bottom of the blankets on purpose.
I mean, who leaves panties behind? I’m a counter myself.
That removed all doubt about the ‘intercourse’.
And, I still have the panties picture if I ever need to prove it.
Which, I did send the photo to his Bloomberg work computer the next day, saying – Hi Honey. These aren’t mine. I only buy French Imports.. He blocked me at work after that.
Shechump-I remember your story-you are the one with the quality underwear and the Bloomberg story that I thought was totally Mighty! I am sorry you had to see that, but I wish I had something like that. Someone else’s cheap underwear in the bed would be more than enough for me, intercourse or not, that’s way too close.
It wouldn’t take nearly that much for me. Right now, I have just enough not to believe him and a ton of uncertainty that is driving me crazy. That alone may be the undoing of this marriage. Would be tragic if he’s telling the truth, but that was his choice…we can’t choose how other people will react to our choices. I even had specifically warned him about not getting too close to women at work, long before any of this (EA or PA or whatever it is) happened for obvious, professional reasons. I can’t believe he did something so galactically stupid.
FreeScientist–I’m a researcher, so I fully understand your need for ‘evidence’ of a PA. But having been through this obstacle course of betrayal and divorce, let me suggest you really don’t need evidence of a PA. Emotional affairs count as betrayal, too, and chances are you were subject to the same devaluation and poor treatment during his supposed EA that the rest of us were subject to during our partners’ PAs. Isn’t that enough?
The one thing I have taken away from this experience is that I don’t want to be with ANYone (friend or romantic partner) who (a) makes me feel discombobulated or less than fully vibrant; and (b) is not enthusiastic to be with me. Having an EA = “not enthusiastic enough about me.”
Limbo is not pleasant. Playing marriage police or detective is no way to live a mindful and satisfying life.
While this blog is not exactly fitted to your circumstances, the take home message certainly is: https://markmanson.net/fuck-yes
Hugs; you deserve better than your current marriage.
Tempest, in a lattice-of-coincidence connection: I just bought Mark Manson’s new book, ‘The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck’ – great advice above to check out his thoughts/website.
Roaring–let me know what you think of it! Another good book that Karma Express & I thought was inspirational was “You Are a Badass: How to stop doubting your greatness and start living an awesome life.” [It goes without saying that book should NOT end up in the hands of a narc!]
Free scientist – incredible memory you have to remember my story since there are so many on here.
But, I would have doubted myself forever had I not found that one piece of solid evidence. (panties off = intercourse? kind of obvious)
She cleaned up so well after all her visits to my home and my motorhome. (feeling guilty, slutface?)
There were things like searching the m/h for something, anything, and the only thing I could find that was wrong, was wrong.
The shower was so clean that there is no way any man would have cleaned it.
But, that’s not proof, is it?
I was expecting to find his regular pubes and things in the drain. Nothing.
The bed wasn’t made like he or I would have made it.
The doubt was killing me, so I can only imagine what you’re going through.
How can we get solid proof for you? If they are good at hiding texts/sexts (thank God) you won’t find it that way. Those mind movies would have driven me nuts.
But, there IS some proof out there somewhere. I started noticing his underwear missing. Not proof, of course. Then I found brand new underwear. Not proof either. So, I guess at this point, if there is nothing else, just KNOW that if they are hiding their phone under their pillow and never leaving it, that is solid proof without evidence, but it is truly a huge red flag and I would be confident leaving somebody now for that reason alone. It’s the #1 Red Flag.
Wish I could help you corner and catch the bastard.
Tempest-loved the Fuck Yes! article. Not there yet, although I agree with it completely.
Your words about the EA ring true-the devaluation and poor treatment were actually what clued me in that something was going on. Then it took me 6 weeks to extract an EA admission.
I do think an EA is betrayal and that his behavior was awful-I don’t mean to minimize that and MC is in my corner on that (none of that “what the betrayed spouse did to contribute” BS. This MC’s position is that the EA is as bad as a PA, or worse). Husband has decided that regardless of whether or not we work out, he has to change and be a better person, and so he has booked is own appointments, purchased and read books by psychologists (Stosny) on his own, and followed MC’s and book’s advice on how to treat your wife like someone you actually care about. He seems to be a humbler, happier, and kinder person. A very accomplished person, he is pursing our marriage and his personal improvement as hard, or harder, than his other interests and enthusiastically, if not desperately, seems to want to save the marriage.
In other words, he is owning his own shit, trying to untangle his own fucking skein, and generally acting like a horse with a very big horn. That’s why I’m so reluctant to give up on him, but I’m still wary.
I am hung up on what the relationship was-EA or PA-not because I don’t agree that an EA isn’t a betrayal in its own right, because I am trying to figure out if I’m being lied to that it wasn’t physical. If I am being lied to, all that has ensued since does not matter…lying and being a better person after lying does not make up for lying! So, that’s why I’m so hung up on the EA/PA distinction. I may never know, and at some point soon will have to figure out if I can really live with that and risk going through all of this again, possibly at a much later time when I (mistakenly) think that this won’t happen again.
I do/did deserve better. I have been an awesome wife (2 deployments, other challenges, plenty of accomplishments of my own). I can look at myself in the mirror and be proud of the wife I have been for the last 14 years.
An Emotional affair sucks and it’s just as much a punch in the gut as a physical one in some cases.
My ex husbands EA turned into a PA when they went to a location where the entire Facebook group was meeting to put on a “rock concert” at a dive bar. It remained a dirty secret with 70 something people for a year before someone clued me in. At last count this particular woman was responsible for no less than three marriages having trouble because she wouldn’t cut off her loving secret messaging relationships with her special Facebook friends, saying she’s “got too much character” to do something like that to other people’s marriages. I take comfort in the fact that she’s an awful musician and a tone deaf singer. Good luck adulterous warbler…
In case you are following your thread FreeSci, I’m logical as hell, I had excellent boundaries when I moved exasshole in. He did everything right first time busted, 7 years into our relationship. 10 years later while I’m mourning my Mom he did it again. Except I now know he never stopped, at least never stopped trying. I’ve come to believe that such a person may be able to change for someone else, they sure as shit won’t do it for someone they fooled and who forgave and trusted again. The exasshole also cheated on his OW within a month of moving in with her….
Logically, anyone that lies to you every day for months, years, that person has a problem and they are very damn good at manipulation. They can lie convincingly, I wish I dumped the asshole the first time but he was all perfect for so long after that first time. Except he was fucking with me all along. Please take a look at WHY you love him. Do an analysis, I think you’ll see some fucked up shit. Good luck! Jedi hugs!
Ugh no,
It must give you a secret satisfaction to know that she is such a poor singer. It’s nice to be certain that someone is bad at their art of choice. It’s a subjective judgment but one you can be secure in unlike beauty or wealth. She’s a bad singer. Ha ha!
Datdamwuf-
Thanks for your thoughts. I do appreciate them.
Hey all y’all…..Am late to the party, as I am out living my cheater-free life!
However, I am really getting so much good from this exchange with freescientist71 and all my lovely fellow chumps! Wisdom, advice and insight!
So, my thought for freescientist71…….This is how I framed my situation—-Go ahead and separate & / or divorce as quietly & calmly as you can. If his remorse and ‘character transplant’ are for real, it will shine thru! You can always get back together if it is the ‘real deal’! (But, the chances are slim to nothing that it is! Trust ChumpNation on this!) THIS marriage has been seriously tainted and needs to end!
That is partly how I made my leap to ‘the other side’. All the years wasted…….My best years are now!!!
Love to all…..As we all ForgeOn!!!
ForgeOn! So glad you popped in for a moment and happy for your new life.
Always good to hear from you!!
Awwww….You makin’ me blush
{{{{HUGS! to you Shechump}}}
Yep, even though I do not yet have a divorce, a cheater-free life is still possible and OOOOHHHHH!!!! so much better! (Had to wait until our business interests were settled and separate…..Divorce can now finally proceed! Yay!!!)
ForgeOn-thanks for your thoughts. I do appreciate them.
FreeScientist,
Thank you for your service as a wife during deployments. That complicates things in a way almost none of us can imagine. Please know that anything I say is meant as helpful, and I hope I didn’t offend you. Best wishes.
Ian-no offense taken and thanks for your thanks.!
To all of you who have followed my thread:
Thank you very much for sharing your experiences and for your advice and challenges to my thoughts. It’s been particularly helpful to hear from those of you who have had things turn out very sadly after trusting and investing years. It is imperative to know that this can happen, and a personal story communicates details and emotions that get missed by cold statistics.
I had seen some stories on here from others going through a known EA (I say known, because for me there will probably always be uncertainty..and that is one of things I have to decide if I can live with).
I will ultimately make my own decision…what ever that will be….quite possibly to the annoyance and or utter disbelief of MCs, attorneys, my husband, family, and/or many or all of the people on this forum….but that’s how this freescientist rolls (although she is highly cognizant that she will have to live with the results). That does not mean, however, that I do not appreciate the input.
I’d been an observer for a long time hadn’t posted too much that’s personal, but this is one of the few places where I feel like people actually understand what I’m going through.
Freescientist! I’m so late to this “party”, but I’m so glad that I kept scrolling and found your comments. If you’re still following the threads, I wanted to inform you that I am in a situation that is similar to yours. Not quite divorcing, but not reconciling either. (My background…Married 9 years, together 18 yrs. 3 small children. He had a very, very sexual affair with a coworker for 6 months. I found out nearly a year and half after he ended it). My husband is also in unicorn mode, although I know in my heart that his choices have ruined everything and that nothing will ever be the same. I just hope that you jump on that counselor about the post-nup immediately! Why on earth would he/she advise against it?!?! You need it!! You need to protect yourself because no one else will! I doubt that the counselor will be there to help you out of your financial ruin if your husband ever did this again. KarenE’s comment about resentment toward boundary setting hit me a (much needed) punch in the gut. We all know how these defectives handle their feelings of resentment. You’ll need to be armed and ready. Anyway, I would love to exchanges ideas with you if you’re interested. (My name at gmail dot com)
First, I changed my username; it was FoolMeOnce before, but I’ve only been on here for about a month.
My Rebellion Moment was about two weeks ago. Actually, this site is probably responsible for 97% of my awakening. I finally started seeing that he was trying to distract me from wanting my marriage rights by giving me Kibbles. D-Day was April 27 of this year. Three+ months of MC and vacillating between him saying we should just part ways, and pretending to reconcile, the time between the pendulum swings started to decrease. And I had had it with his phone game addiction. My patience got shorter as well. A LOT shorter. But I was still holding out for a little bit of hopium.
Ironically, it was him being nice to me that really flipped the Rage Switch. It was the day he did a 180-degree turn (as I predicted to his face he would two days after he said “I’m not going to flip-flop this time, I’m ending the relationship”) and was suddenly saying how much he needed me, how great we were together, and that maybe I “just need some dick to calm down” as an attempt to make a fun sex request. Mind you, he had NEVER initiated sex in the one year we were married, even to consummate the marriage. It was so transparent and disgusting. I was completely repulsed. I was leaving for a two-week trip to my home state in two days, and he finally started to realize I believed him this time: It was OVER.
He tried to lay on my shoulder (I used to lay on his and he would just sit there, no attempt to return the affection). He tried to lay his head on my lap. When I’d done this before, he would lift up his phone higher to keep playing uninterrupted. So I did the same. I was texting my friend at the same time, telling her all the creepy things he was doing. Suddenly, while not FULLY, I was Meh. I knew he was never going to be the husband I needed, even if he suddenly decided to try.
I went home, requested divorce over the phone (we had a religious marriage and you can end it with simple words), and came back two weeks later to pack up my stuff.
Things I’m proud of:
– I reserved the ReloCube (kind of like PODS, but cheaper and awesome) using his credit card number I had stored in my computer, because I knew he wasn’t going to actually pay for anything. Take that!
– I told two key people in our religious community what he did, so they could warn other women (He did the same thing to his ex-wife). He’s pissed, but I don’t care.
– With help from my sister flying in, I packed everything myself and loaded it in the ReloCube. I had done the same thing to move to be with him in December, so it wasn’t that hard. :/
– Someone had given us Mr. and Mrs. coffee mugs for a wedding gift. We had never used them (HUH!). I put the Mr. cup in the bathroom, where he spent about 4 hours every day doing who-knows-what (texting whores, watching porn, etc etc). I broke the Mrs. mug in half and put the pieces on my nightstand next to the bed, where I waited so many nights while he “worked late” (spent time with OW).
– Driving with my sister and staying overnight halfway, I made it home in time for ‘Eid, our holiday that was on September 12 this year. I was NOT spending that away from my real home.
Here’s a nice reward for reading this entire comment:
Deadfool (my X, a comic book nerd) sent a text to my BFF’s husband, asking him to advise me to stop “slandering him and spreading rumors about him” (read: telling a couple of people the truth!) and this was his response to Deadfool:
“I don’t know what slandering she is doing but you need to recognize that you literally cheated on her. You were with other women and this is a great sin. I am not perfect but cheating on my wife is something that I can not even fathom. It breaks all social taboos across society, no matter what religion.
If she is exposing you, good. If I had a way to put you on blast and expose how you are destroying women, I would do so too. She quit her job and gave up her life here to move there and you didn’t even have the balls to say you had some side ho beforehand.
Man up and quit being a pussy-ass bitch. Don’t bother replying.”
#MicDrop
Amen!
I love your whole story, and I especially love that you call him Deadfool – so awesome!
As you are both Muslim, he knows adultery is prohibited. I don’t think he is going to follow any religious orders if he has already cheated.
If it is just a religious marriage, doesn’t he just have to say seven times he divorces you, and that is it?
I hope, for your sake, it is also a civil marriage so you can get some financial help!
*three times.
Sylvia, there is divorce as you described, and also a “woman’s divorce” akin to annulment, in which you ask to be released and he agrees. If he won’t agree, you can go to the community and ask for it. He agreed to release me, but now says that never happened, that I “abandoned him” (other way around, asshole!) and therefore forfeit my right to one year of maintenance (like alimony). I don’t care. I’d rather pay my own way, as I have for decades, than grovel for one penny of money earned at a job he treated as a whore farm.
That’s it! Sometimes having to fight for money is a way to be tied to them. Another type of misery and bondage.
I completely understand. My X has a whole storage full of my stuff. He says it is safe…but he is a liar. If I lost…oh well.
I am like you…I will not grovel. Stuff can be replaced. We can earn money. We cannot get back precious years.
I dated a Muslim man from Turkey and celebrated Eid with his family. That was one of the best times of my life. Turkish food makes me crazy…it is soooooo delicious.
I fantasize about the baklava.
I make a mean baklava! I’m happy to share the recipe if you’re interested. You’re right, we can take care of ourselves better than they could ever have cared for us.
????????
ChumpChanged – ‘I make a mean baklava! I’m happy to share the recipe if you’re interested. ‘
YES, please oh please oh please.
Nobody knows how to make it in my small town and I’ve never learned.
It is THE best dessert!
Post it in the forums! It is ambrosia…food for the gods!
I remember being in a hotel in Istanbul, and I would GET UP and sneak back over to my little stash of baklava in the corner of my room and I was eating it all through the night. It was the kind with the green pistachios on top!
As requested, baklava recipe is posted in “Happy Post-Chump Life” or whatever that forum is called. For some reason I can’t reply to the requests for the recipe themselves. Have at it, friends!
Chump Changed – ‘Have at it, friends!’ Baklava Recipe!!!! YAY. Is it in the ‘general forum’?
I swear, I’ve always wanted to make this and I used to be a great cook until the ‘troubles’ and I haven’t cooked in 3 yrs.
This just could inspire me.
Thank you!
Read it to the end, ChumpChanged. And many kudos to your friend for not being a Switzerland friend! Yay you and him!!
Thank you, Martha! Thankfully, all of my friends (those who know, it’s still early) have been super supportive. Even those who’ve known him for decades but I just met months ago. The two women I told to spread the word had been chumped themselves (one by his step-brother!!) so they didn’t hesitate to believe me for a second. Sad that more people than not seem to have gone through this. ?
Yeah, ChumpChanged, it truly is sad all the people who have been cheated on. People that I was only acquaintances at work, came out to help me when they heard I got cheated on. That too had been cheated on, so they wanted to support me because they knew what I was going through. That’s why I love hanging out here at CN. We all get each other and we all want to help each other heal and move forward. Hugs to you.
I had 3.5 spackly D-Days followed by a nuclear, uppity D-Day. I’ve been waiting to let my chump flag fly here.
D-Day #1 was pictures exchanged with a like-minded trollop on some sort of proto-Ashley Madison chat room. “So he’s left the pics and emails open on our shared computer, proving himself careless and technologically inept. I police the shit out of that!”
D-Day #2 was several years later, when I found that he was trolling casual encounters while out of town on business. “Posting torso pics of yourself with your unique necklace showing, in a location I recognize? I’m onto you, buddy!” Sham counseling, spackle.
D-Day #3 was a year after that, I was going checking our phone bill and found records of dozens of messages from a groupie of sorts. “Ok, I know she’s clingy and volatile, and he said he’s indulging her with texting. We don’t want her to make problems for him with some false accusations, no indeed. I’ll sternly tell him that it’s taking away from our family time, so he’ll dial it back.” Gaslightgaslightgaslight…
D-Day #3.5 came about a month after that, “A new wardrobe of schmancy outdoor clothing for your birthday? I know she showers our family with gifts and food, but that’s an eensy-weensy bridge too far!”
Yet it took me another month to finally find his tablet open to emails and photos detailing a rainy romp in said schmancy clothing. “Please read the flagged chapters of these books on reconciliation! No? Oh, it was just emotional. I see. Then here are the chapters on rebuilding marriages after emotional affairs!” Pickmepickmepickme…
I danced for a few days. “So you think we can calmly and rationally separate, so as not to disturb our daughter or move from this extremely isolated small city, a thousand miles from my family? Even though, once you move into your ‘happily-openly-married’ Whore’s condo & the affair is revealed, you’ll lose your job and our employer-provided housing? This is your ass-hatted plan? FUCK NO.”
The next day, I packed my car and daughter. I made him agree to our move. I made him agree to tell his boss. Even though I looked mighty, I literally almost shit my pants while I was shoving clothes and toys and everything valuable into the car. Rage fueled me on the thousand-mile drive back to my family. A Meh Day will dawn soon, I think.
You are AMAZING, Hail. A freakin Mazing.
Thanks! Something we all need to hear!
There were two decades of progressively deleterious effects of his dismissive, cold, non-cooperative attitude (the prolonged discard). I had no suspicion of cheating, but my body gave signals of serious unrest. I was ill virtually 100% of the time, with infections and profound malaise. Felt like there was some lethality to it, but without a definitive diagnosis. And I was off balance emotionally; feeling raw, with frustration increasing over unsolvable issues.
My very first un-Chump moment occurred three years ago, following some familiar, unpleasant event. I suddenly and definitively turned off the tap of ‘I am Sherlock and MUST solve and FIX this’. I had a profound sense that if I did not do something that I would die. Soon.
I moved all personal items out of the master suite, booked a flight to a pleasant location where I found accommodation. My health improved immediately and completely. Have not been sick one day in these last three years.
We continued our newly defined ‘relationship’, in touch twice daily, travelling monthly for time together, re-committing, redeeming our long relationship. As a chump, that was only MY idea of the process.
I have no clue when the cheating started, but a year ago I found out about one instance of ‘just friends’ activity. I was fully discarded and fully un-Chumped. (Okay. I lie. It’s a process!)
September 23d will be 365 days No Contact. Yes, AllOutofKibbles, it is the path to the Truth and the Light!
VIRAGO!!!!
So good to see you! Glad to hear you are well. 365 is a mighty achievement.
In keeping with today’s theme I too would count the day I went no-contact as my un-chump day.
Ian!!!! Missed you! Is MatchGirl’s theme song still “Ain’t Misbehavin”?
How did we ever end up with wackadoodles? This is still my meh’ddlesome question.
Oh, Virago – she don’t deserve no theme song. She needs a funeral march!
I’m back in the spin cycle. Still not even close to divorced. She skipped a hearing this week, so I have to spend more money on lawyers. It’s all worth it to get that cancer out of me. I am happy most of the time now, and the rage is past for the most part. I’m starting to get a bit of an “oh there she goes again,” attitude toward the STBXW. I have taken a few months off from here a couple of times, but I keep coming back. I can’t quit Chump Lady. I love to hear from the new chumps just to remember that Match Girl isn’t special. And it’s nice to provide some measure of comfort to people when they wash up here.
Have a great weekend, Virago.
Chopin’s your man. Piano Sonata No. 2 in B♭ minor, Op. 35.
You sound good. Newbies (and oldies) will love your comfort!
I am happy you stick around.
Maybe three days after I caught him coming into my “best friend” in the kitchen, I told him, “I’m not fighting for you.” He seemed surprised.
We did about 5 months of counseling, which I am so very glad I did, because it really exposed him to me. I don’t think I’d ever know him the way I do, now, other than through that counseling, during which he was spectacularly forthright. He told all, even the counselor was surprised. I waited for him to fight for me, and he never did.
I found CL about halfway through, and I’ve been so proud of myself for those words I told him. It hurts so much, what he did, and it helps me to think back and hold fast, “You knew your worth then. You know it now. Hold on.”
That thought, and binge reading CL archives, and waiting fitfully for new weekday articles…. And drinking out of my new “state of meh” mug. Slowly on the road to meh.
Coming onto. Not into. That would have been a much more stressful sight. 🙂
Wait. Really? Yuck.
Ha. As in, making a pass at. Not as in, something to do with semen in plain sight.
Great mantra: “You knew your worth then. You know it now. Hold on.” It’s great to have an arsenal of moments where you were strong and clear to draw strength from.
Also, it really does get easier. Six months ago, I would never have believed that I’d be feeling so well today. It’s still hard but manageable. And not like daily-shots-of-insulin manageable, either. More like, damn-I-ate-all-the-chips-i’m-going-to-have-to-eat-carrots-for-a-few-days manageable.
Oh, thank God. I was thinking you must have really been gobsmacked by that encounter. (Ha, ha!)
My friends and therapist all encouraged me to just write the guy an email and not even a phone call or in person. I knew I’d lose my nerve. So I penned the most honest thing I’ve ever written in my life, and that moment I pressed send…was SO terrifying. But I never spoke to him again after that. I just suddenly got some self-respect and refused to do the pick-me dance anymore, or wait around for someone to get it, who didn’t already get it! I *knew* in my bones I deserved more, even though I cried for weeks after that, my resolve was steel. I wish I could say that was the end of my chumpiness, but the guy I dated after him was a lying cheating scumbag as well!! (Don’t date too soon, a cautionary tale.) However, this time I only spent 2 months with this person, and on D-Day I wouldn’t even take the guys’ calls (I got too hip to the gaslighting and manipulations). It was just straight over, no explanation necessary or acceptable. So even if you’re not completely feeling it, making that decision really does plant the seeds for more self-loving action later on. The conviction of my values was what helped me do the hard stuff.
K, such a great point about planting seeds for more self-loving action later. I believe that ‘the way you do anything is the way you do everything.’ I’m really glad my stubborn head got out on D-day ‘cuz my chump heart was/is in shock.
Wait. You left your cheater by email???! Wow, why didn’t I have the wisdom to do that? The fallout from the whole messy debacle felt like a Jerry Springer episode. I would have done anything to avoid stooping so low.
You practiced a whole other level of NC, K. Good for you! And thanks for the too-soon warning. Glad you recognized the signs right away and got out.
My last boyfriend was the one who brought me to these boards. I already posted this before, but I felt like posting it again today. I was very nice to him during our courtship. You see, I felt bad for the poor lad, who wasn’t as successful in his career, had made several changes down the road and was starting a new career at the age of 40 yrs old. After all, who was I to judge a poor fellow who needed a break. Nevermind that I came from a family of assholes who never did anything for me and I had to fend for myself my entire life. So I helped him out, and was even more giving than he was financially. But all along he was playing me, and the truth always comes out.
Throughout our courtship, he constantly announced to me that he was sooo generous, but he never showed it. I excused this thinking the poor guy just starting off in his career, was struggling financially. I kept giving and giving, always sympathizing for the chap. And then one day the mighty truth came out, as he had confessed to his family friend that he was not attracted to me AT ALL, but was attracted to my lifestyle (cha-ching to my earning power). He categorically denied that when I confronted him with it, but that family friend had never lied to me, so I believe her 100%. Also, this was right before he told me that I”m not letting him have sex with other women”, but of course, he insisted this was a joke. I knew with every fiber of my being it wasn’t a joke, so I instantly dumped his ass telling him to go put his dick in any hole he wanted and go fuck any girl he wanted.
He had Machiavellian plans to quit his job and move into my newly purchased home. And this, after I had already dumped him. You see, I had been SO tolerant of him during our courtship, he thought dumbass Kellia would tolerate his ass yet again. But he was OH SO WRONG. And he kept trying to contact me and to move in. But I was ironclad in my stance. And the piece de resistance was when he quipped that I should stop taking my birthcontrol pills so we could have a baby, but he didn’t want to get married. That’s when I went NUCLEAR on him! Smoke was coming out of my ears and my eyes were seeing red. I swear, I tore him apart with such rage and viciousness. And after doing that, I sent him an email telling him what kind of lowlife he was and then BLOCKED him from all venues. And this, 7 days before he was going to take a big financial exam. Too fucking bad, so sad. I hope he failed his exam. Evil laugh bwah ha hah. He was a con-artist and a charlatan, but he couldn’t fool me.
What a con artist, Kellia. Glad you kicked him to the curb. You are mighty!
Thank you Martha!!
I took a time to un-chump, please forgive yourself and allow the process, I got mighty, I got weak again. But I remember my biggest turning point was deciding to file and I got mightier and mightier from that day on. Our beautiful home (that, of course he’d been with her in) had been broken into, it was, of course, all my fault. He was so angry towards me that the policeman told me to stay at a friends that night and ‘to get very far away from this man’……and I remember thinking, but this is what he’s always like.
He’d told me he HAD to go to NYC for work that day and I was to stay and clean up the broken door and window, the mess in the house the insurnace company. For anyone who’s been burgled it’s pretty scary, and I live in LA where guns are rife. My brain was telling me this all sucked on some level, but the crazy haze of abuse was making it difficult to read the signals clearly……and then, as I waited for the locksmith, I cleared the mess in the office and found airline tickets and details on a 5-star resort for the two of them. That’s where he was going, on vaca.
I quietly rose up, I felt the mightiness building like a strong river inside. I dealt with the house, the insurance, the mess and then I called my lawyer and filed. He was severed when he landed back from his vaca. I never looked back. Stay mighty chumps xx
I’m so impressed, Laura.
Well I was the all purposeful example of a chump, I begged, cried, pleaded, rationalized, screamed, yelled, ignored, psychoanalyzed, danced, pretzled, kissed ass, oversexed etc for a long time. Then I tried to show him how great we had it, tried to get him to remember all the wonderful times, remind him how good we got along, what a great wife and friend I was to him.
When all that didn’t work I just quite frankly gave up. By that point we both were miserable living together and then I wanted him gone, and so I kinda went on a crazy rebellion. There were things that I did purely to spite him and make him want to leave the home. Yet it being my home everything I did was perfectly acceptable by law. For years I had shown nothing but respect but I didn’t care anymore.
I began to smoke in the house, I blasted either rock-n-roll or classic depending on my mood, I sprayed lots of perfume and hairspray, I burned sooty candles everywhere, I only did my clothes and cooked for me, I wouldn’t clean house, I didn’t say where or when I’d be back going out, I didn’t take any messages for him, I quit getting spending cash for him, I told all his friends and family, I stopped helping him altogether.
So drove him crazy, lol, and he was gone before long. From that time on I had the home to do as I please, whatever, whenever, however, …. it’s taken me 2.5 yrs to truly take ownership and get rid of his voice telling me his ways of doing things. I’m learning to do things my way and I like it, it’s okay to be a little selfish sometimes if kept in perspective. Now I make the decisions and don’t need permission or advise from others. It’s my life I get to choose now.
That’s pretty badass. I remember my ex asking me to keep up with the housework–I had been a housewife mostly because he discouraged me from working–while he was divorcing me because after all I was still living off “his” money (that the military gave him to support a family). I should’ve told him to eat shit and trashed the place.
This is so great!!! I think you should have also fostered several cats and dogs with IBS and incontinence. A win-win!!!
lol
God, my ex wouldn’t go! I can’t tell you how much shit I did to try to get him to leave, but he wouldn’t. He had “his rights” to stay as long as he wanted and he’d leave when he was good and ready. So, I went! I packed our shit up and moved into an apartment with my kids. One of the hardest things I ever had to do was to leave the home I poured myself into. But I did it! And I did it almost all by myself. My sister came and helped me mostly for emotional support. But I did most of the move on my own. I was mighty at that moment in time! I’m proud of myself. I didn’t know I had it in me until I did it!
Good for you! I’ve moved myself more times than I can count on two hands but this last time for these reasons was a lot harder. Because I was literally cheated out of my dream. But the actual packing and hauling was a breeze because I could see the light at the end. And my little sister helped immensely. She was a rock star. Even gave me a Klonapen (sp?) when I lost it at the Steak ‘n Shake after we finally got the u-haul packed. It was a fun night after that! ????
Because my cheater announced that he was leaving me, a lot of my chumpdom was in attempting to convince him to change his mind and try for the marriage. He agreed (under pressure from his mother) to accompany me to marriage counseling and “acted” like he was open to saving the marriage. I was so relieved that he wanted to keep our family intact for our toddler and our newborn (yes – our one-week-old son). However, as I had already gotten my own counselor immediately upon learning my husband wanted a divorce, my counseler (wisely) suggested that instead of finding a separate marriage counselor, that X bring his own counselor of his choosing and we meet together all four of us. So the four of us met several times to discuss saving the marriage. After about the third session, STBX’s counselor said at the beginning of the session as we all four sat there, “if we don’t see any progress here today, I suggest we change our sessions from marriage counseling to divorce counseling.” I was livid! How dare he! I abruptly stood up and said angrily, “I don’t need joint counseling if we are divorcing. What I’ll need is individual counseling and a good attorney.” And a stomped out of the room, slamming the door behind me as loud as I could, and I stomped down the stairs and to my car and drove away. I broke down in tears as soon as I drove away and I called my good friend and told her I had just made a fool of myself. She told me, and later my counselor told me too, that I was NOT making a fool of myself that I had every right to be angry and I didn’t have to participate in joint counseling with STBX if I didn’t want to (which I did not). (Years later I realized that STBX’s counselor realized that X was too cowardly to be open about what he really wanted, so the counselor was just trying to “jump start” the inevitable, as painful as it was.) That was the first time I got angry. But I still would have done anything to save my marriage if X had shown any sign of wanting to come back. Thank God he didn’t. Because we had used our individual counselors as the faciliators for marriage counseling (using signed waivers, etc.) I was able to continue to meet with the counselor individually during the few weeks of our “faux MC” and then continue to work with him solo for a couple of years after that. Because counselor had seen X in the flesh he knew first-hand what I had been dealing with, which helped him to help me in counseling. Much later counselor told me X was a Sack of Shit. Chumplady wasn’t around back then, but I did have my 4-times-divorced Godmother who was also an experienced divorce attorney herself as my guide, and she practically forced me to file divorce papers rather than wait for STBX to deplete the marital assets before he filed. Thank heavens I had her there for me.
But my best “moment of clarity” came years after the divorce. Some of you longer term readers have heard this story so feel free to skip. I had long since remarried, long since given up any hope of getting child support from X, who had run his architecture practice into the ground prior to the Great Recession, which then bankrupted him. As he married OWife, had a child of their own, raised her sons from her first marriage, X had gradually drifted out of our childrens lives and stopped seeing them save for an hour or two on Sunday afternoon. I had designed my life (and our children’s lives) to be as independent of X as possible. We counted on him for nothing. Eventually I remarried and became a SAHM. My current husband was the breadwinner and sole provider for us. Hubby was doing some estate planning and realized that the children would not be entitled to certain benefits if he died because they were his step children. The advisor suggested adopting them. So we broached it with my X – asking if he would be willing to let stepdad adopt the children so they could have this extra security (we are older parents) should something happen to their sole provider. We offered to do an open adoption and he could have full access to the children as before – nothing would change. X sputtered “No!” I asked, “Why not? – it would assure the children would be provided for.” He said, “Because I don’t want them changing their last name.” That MF wasn’t worried if his children would eat. Wasn’t worried about their survival. He was worried about THEIR LAST NAME. “They can keep their last name,” I assured X. X STILL wouldn’t agree. I dropped the subject. About a month later, we were talking and I asked him how things were going with OWife (he had been telling me for some time that they were on the rocks). “We are doing great now that the economy has picked up and I’m making money,” he said. “I think anybody can get stressed out when they are broke, but now that I’ve got all these projects coming in she is happy as can be.” I said nothing, but my brain was going 90-to-nothing. He is talking about how golddigging OWife is happy in their marriage now that they are doing well financially, yet he hasn’t bothered to pay child support that he hasn’t paid for years.(I had long since given up on enforcing it because even the courts can’t get blood from a turnip and the effort/expense of collecting from a bankrupt self-“employed” architect wasn’t worth it.) He won’t let stepdad adopt the children to secure the children’s financial stability, yet he does nothing to contribute to their existance? This was my true Unchump Moment . I could feel the steam coming out of my ears. He kept rambling on about this and that, thinking all is okay with us since we get along so well as coparents. I kept quiet and just let him keep thinking that. But the very next day I got up and drove to the Child Support Enforcement Dept. and had them put out a warrant for his arrest. If he was going to keep Stepdad from being the Daddy, then by God I was going to let X feel the Full-on Joy of being a Daddy. If he had money, as he now had attested to, he could pay it in child support. Every single month after that, the minute he was 30 days late, on day 31 I was back down at Child Support Enforcement. I was draining him of any extra resources he might have to fight me later in court. Then, I requested – and later had to insist — that Child Support Enforcement actually collect the court ordered 12.99% MONTHLY interest tacked on to all the BACK child support. They didn’t want to do it, because it made them look bad to have so much outstanding “uncollectable child support.” I pressed forward and I showed up every other day with my boxes of file folders, professionally and politely (but firmly) writing down the name of every employee, title, supervisor’s name and title, and asking for a status update, and noting every single detail of every single meeting. Then I would go back two days later and follow up. And follow up. And follow up. I even invoked the name of the State Commissioner. After months of work, they finally totaled up the interest and his back child support went from $55K to over $600K . Wowza!!!!!!! Then we set a court date to “enforce” the new amount. When X got the news of the court date I met him at Perkins for breakfast to discuss. He thought the court date was to enforce back child support (he had no idea about the gi-normous new total due to the interest). He said he was worried about going to jail and I said very sweetly, to him, “El Jefe, I could make all this go away, you know,” He said how. I said, “ we offered earlier this year for my hubby to adopt the kids. You didn’t want to do it then. But if you agree to the adoption before we go to court, you won’t owe any future child support. And while legally we can’t make the back child support ($55K) “go away,” I can promise you that I will never try to collect it. Oh, and I could ask the court not to add all that interest to your back child support.” He said he didn’t know anything about any interest. I acted surprised and said, “Oh, they didn’t tell you? They are getting ready to add interest to the back child support and it brings the total to this:,” and I discretely wrote the $600K-plus amount on the back of a Perkins napkin. Well, El Jefe’s eyes about bugged out of his head. I’m surprised they didn’t fall out of the sockets and roll off the table. Then I said, “If you think the adoption will help you out of this pickle, I need the paperwork signed by _____ or it will be too late.” And then I shrugged my shoulders and said “ Just let me know what you decide. Either way is fine with us. Frankly, Hubby and I could really use the money. Let me know what you decide.” And I smiled sweetly and comfortingly reached out and patted his hands.
Anyhoo, you can guess what El Jefe chose. And we got that adoption done within a month and moved the kids two states away. We do still let El Jefe see the kids a couple times a year and he calls every week or two. After all, SOMEBODY has to be my kids’ example of “how not to live your life.” In the meantime, I’m thinking of changing my Chumplady moniker from MissDeltaGirl to BlackWidow (insert evil laugh here). The divorce 11 years ago was HIS divorce. The adoption was MY divorce.
This is great. Thanks for sharing. You are mighty and have so much self-control. What an awesome outcome for your family!
I was a huge chump so I didn’t have one complete click moment where I just stopped taking his shit, sadly. I kind of reverted back to debasing myself and tolerating unbelievably cruel and ridiculous things from him a few times. But the one moment it finally came together for me and I realized that he wasn’t just being selfish and stupid but outright cruel was when he shut off my debit card while I was at the hospital getting therapy. And then laughed in my face when I called him up sobbing from a fast food restaurant asking what was wrong with my card/our joint account. That’s when it finally clicked that I had just seen financial abuse on a bullet point of a domestic violence/abusive relationship wheel and that it was happening to me. Plus, they tell military spouses that service members are not allowed to cut their family off from pay that they receive to feed their families. I called his commanding officers but he didn’t get in any trouble. Maybe a slap on the wrist that I never saw.
Looking back the only “reasons” I can think of for why was willing to forgive that kind of cruelty was because A. I honestly believed I was worthless after years of him slowly eroding my self esteem. and B. I couldn’t believe it was really happening. I couldn’t reconcile the person I thought he was to the things he had done to me.
When we are in abusive relationships, there is trauma bonding. Have you researched it? You should! It will help you understand that you were in a lose/lose situation. Trauma actually makes us feel more meshed with our abusers. It is a sick dynamic that is not your fault.
He is a monster. I hope you escaped him! You deserve everything good thing in life.
It’s really sad how these monsters managed to whittle our self-worth down to nothing and we accept the crumbs of attention that they give us, because we do feel like we are not worth much and we are thankful for the little bit that they offer us each day. “Thank you, Monster, for replying to my email. Thank you, Monster, for the kiss good night and for telling me you love me, when in reality you don’t. Thank you, Monster, for ignoring me all the time, but then you expect sex at night, but you don’t initiate it, but expect me to be falling all over you after you ignored me all day. Thank you, Monster, may I have another day of emotional abuse?”
Instead of monster ex preferred master i call him asswipe.
I’d like to say that I kicked Mr. Sparkles ass to the curb after the first d-day, when our son was 3. Or a few years later when I had my second d-day… but it took HIM LEAVING ME FOR THE OW for me to step back and go “what the fuck”?!
A year of moderately pick-me dancing while he firmly established his new relationship with the OW. Note: during this same time, I was an emotional zombie – looking back now, I’m amazed I kept my job and my son on track. I give credit to an amazing counselor and a 3 women who never refused to take my calls and texts!
The straw for me, sadly, wasn’t until he was ready to introduce our son to the OW.
That is the day, I said “HELL NO.” and filed pro se.
And, once I filed, it was ME who was going on a scorched Earth and no contact (except about our son) campaign. No one documents better than a Virgo 🙂
One year later, I’m almost at the finish line for the divorce and I can see the Meh day.
One year later, his “love” with the OW has ended.
One year later, I’m starting to truly appreciate myself as an amazing motherf*cker who IS to be reckoned with… No one is putting Baby back in the corner.
Newbies and Lurkers – hang in there… get in the conversation… you’re not alone… your among the best company in all the world – SURVIVORS!
Rock on Chump Nation.
Way to go ISTMC!!!!
nice to hear that their relationship ended. I’ve been told and know at the depths of my heart that their relationship can’t last and even if it does, it’s not a happy one. (though they’ll always pretend it is). I lived that hell for 5.5 years and know you can’t be truly loved by a narcissist. However, I would love if they broke up before she’s around my son pretending to be this great stepmom or human being. she knew we were married and she didn’t care about breaking up a family though she pretends to be an advocate for children (she’s an attorney). so funny. But anyways, glad to hear in your case, it ended. I have a feeling w/ my ex that even if he’s unhappy (which he eventually will be as soon as she starts complaining about the lack of care he pays her and as soon as she has a kid w/ him and is left at home to care for their kid all alone while he’s out drinking and fucking other women)…….that he’ll stick it out cuz he has to prove it was ME that was the reason why we divorced. he’s going to be like, “see, i found happiness w/ someone else, it was HER fault she didn’t appreciate me cuz I’m a wonderful husband and father”.
Yes, I suspect mine will do this, too. Holding on to this sordid pseudo relationship will be the only way he can justify destroying our family.
You know what, I don’t even care. They can have each other. They’re morally bankrupt. People end up with others on their level, and he is beneath me because HE SUCKS.
Well kimda a long story but my ex had moved put but was still seeing the gross old married guy (his wife had no idea as she was at home rasing their daughter). Well gross old man had bought my ex an all expenses paid trip to Costa Rica to stay in he and his wife’s house there (no shame). I choose the day before she was supposed to leave to tell his wife what was going on and that he had paid her whole way for a “whorecation”. Needless to say the trip did not happen and now the OM is getting a divorce, I have become best friends with the OMs wife, and her I and my brother all went to Costa Rica together last. For those that are interested in the pictures they are on my facebook page! Friend me Mathew Yellott
that is sooooo awesome. I wish i could have done that but my ex’s whore’s husband never picked up the phone when I called to tell him. but I think he got the hint as I saw later on that he too filed for divorce.
Mathewyellott, hahaha. Excellent outcome. You handled this well – I would love to have been a fly on the wall when your ex realized what happened. I hope she knows about your trip. hahaha.
Ohhh she does…. Sooo funny
Mathew,
Do you think that being in contact with people who are connected to HER in anyway impedes your healing?
I just know that I could not bear to analyze, unpack or hear details about my X’s life with anyone who might could drop a bomb on me….like his incessant sleeping around or his antics. I do NOT want to be in that loop…no fresh information about his life. No more reveals about his lack of character.
It would set me back light years.
The vacation sounds great. But I just wonder if it keeps you in the “circle” of drama….being friends with her lover’s X, etc.
What do you think?
when after i had moved out w/ my son cuz i found out of his cheating (of which he has yet to still admit to though I have proof), I had a irregular mammogram. (my mom has had breast cancer twice) and he knew that I was always very worried about getting it myself. I called him to ask him not to cancel my health insurance and he said, “I wouldn’t do that (cuz in his eyes, he is NOT THAT bad of a person), and even if you have it, what are you going to do, crawl up in a hole and die?” I realized then that he did not give a fuck about me (the mother of his child who he had cheated on and abused for years) and that he would not ever care for me in the way that a husband should.
My ex did something like that. He told me I was too sick and useless to do anything and when I asked him what I was going to do without his health insurance insisted that I’d be just fine. I don’t know what is wrong with some people.
It all started with H’s plans to have a fun weekend break with OW. He had not told me that was what he was going to do but I knew the truth because by that point I had access to his e-mail and fb accounts. Three months previous he had given me the ILYBIANILWY speech. He told me about what a horrible person I was and how miserable he was in our marriage. He just neglected to tell me that he was screwing our daughter’s godmother. I had consulted a lawyer who advised me to file asap but not confront him with any of my evidence until we got to court. So that’s what I did; I kept quiet, kept gathering the evidence of his many affairs and sending them to my lawyer. I also kept working, kept paying the bills, kept the house clean, did his laundry, looked after the children, made sure that there was a hot meal on the table every night and generally made his life as comfy as it was pre-BD.
But that particular weekend, I’d had enough. At the time we had two cars. One was a cheap old banger with poor mileage and dodgy electrics. The second car was newer, nicer, had better mileage and was generally used as the family car. Of course H wanted to take the family car for his weekend away with the new honey. I refused on the grounds that since I was being left home with the three kids, we should have the better car. He kept insisting, so finally I hid the keys.
To top it all off, he told me that he was not moving out because he did not feel it was convenient for him. He was making mine and the children’s lives hell with his moods and tantrums. Our daughter had started self harming because of all the stress. I had organized counselling for her but H did not want to pay because it cost too much money. I found out that same day that he had arranged a transfer of a large chunk of money from one secret bank account to another so he could have more spending money for him and his whore.
That was it. I told him that I would no longer be including him in the family meals. There was plenty of food in the fridge courtesy of me supplying and paying for it. He could stuff himself silly like the free-loader he had become, but I was no longer allowing him to belly up to my dinner table for a helping of my home cooking. He could make his own damn meals.
I wish I could have taken a photo of his face when I told him Maimai’s kitchen was closed. He accused me of starving him. He threatened to write a letter to his lawyer telling her what I had doing. He tried to block me in the kitchen and then he tried to physically block me from leaving the bedroom. I looked him straight in the eyes and asked him in a quiet voice,’What are you going to do, hit me?’ He immediately backed off.
Later that same day, he sent e-mails to all four of our children in which he told them that ‘Mommy is refusing to feed me!’ What an idiot. Three years on, it still amazes me that he genuinely thought he could treat me like sh*t and I would just put up and shut up.
You have one smart attorney. I admire your ability to keep mum about your knowledge of his infidelity while still setting boundaries and sticking up for yourself. What an infantile (hopefully now-) X you have. Sounds like he needs to be in diapers.
It took me a while after my DDay to unchump myself, but I was with a 3YO and infant, breastfeeding 3hourly around the clock at the time. My brain couldn’t comprehend what he was saying until he had moved out and a week later, in the middle of a Nordic winter, he tried to cut me out of our joint account, cancel my credit card, and move our home mortgage to his name only. It was a Friday afternoon, heavily snowing, and we only operated in digital currency where we lived. I snapped when I received his begrudging email notifying me of this, as the bank had told him he was being unethical. That was my point of no return, from which I started planning my exit strategy.
When your bank has to tell you you’re being unethical… that’s pretty low.
Oh my God, this guy is as evil as it gets. This brought chills down my spine. I can’t fathom how anyone could deliberately bring harm to the mother of their children and their own kids, including cutting of survival means. This guy is an EVIL motherf-er. I’m sorry you married and bread with someone with no soul.
Yes this guy is Saran himself.
There is a lot of talk of confronting a cheater. Don’t do that. Y’all won’t listen to my advice, or it’s already too late. But if you haven’t already confronted your cheater, or if you have a friend who needs to get out. Tell him not to confront a cheater. Just line up your ducks and bug out.
I’ve told this many times but for newbies, after I confronted Match Girl she beat the crap out of me. It really gets their goat to have someone rip the mask off with irrefutable facts.
To anyone out there in wreconciliation, I’m here to say that you are doing it wrong. Get some self respect and get the fuck out. I went into my marriage with everything on the table. I pulled myself up by my bootstraps before I met Match Girl. And I’ve spent time running with some dangerous crowds. Bad people who are bad are preferable to me over people who lie and steal surreptitiously. I trusted Match Girl implicitly, and only her. I told her from the beginning that this cheating shit was going to be one and done deal. Cheat on me and we are through. No one-night-stand pass. No forgiveness. And she agreed. But she’s a fucking violent liar.
Life is too short to spend one more moment with a cheater.
Ian,
What are you and the Sociopathic Skeleton still fighting about in court? I remember you have no children…what is the sticking point?
Are you a secret millionaire? 😉
And she wants you to keep her up for life? I remember she is a lawyer, so she must know that dragging it out only costs more money.
Power. They always refuse to give us what we most want–to be cherished, information, and finally, to get away from them. If they can thwart us in any way, they get high from it.
^^^^this^^^^^
YES!!!
My X, if he discovered I loved something he did or said, you can best believe that it would be placed on lock down.
I try to imagine this mindset: Knowing my dogs love a certain treat and withholding it from them, and delighting in it. I cannot even get there without feeling waves of guilt, nausea and revulsion.
Remember how F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote: The rich are different.
These pod cheaters…they ARE different. It keeps me from picking up even a doll house sized hopium pipe. I may be sad, but I am not deluding myself as to his viper nature.
Power is right on! And Tempest is right on about them withholding from you what you want. It’s all about power and control. I remember telling my ex years ago that I loved when he kissed my neck. I just love to have my neck kissed. It feels so good. Well……after I told him that, he never kissed my neck again! And another really simple request I had. Our last family vacation, we were in a state that had Chick fil A restaurants. After a day at the beach, we headed out and were just looking for a fast-food type restaurant for dinner that we could eat in the car on our way to our next destination. I mentioned to him that I always wanted to try Chick fil A. He ignored me and drove to McDonald’s and he HATES McD’s. Control. Power. He couldn’t give me what I wanted to try. He was in control, because he was driving the car.
Power. It’s always about power.
When I met Match Girl (Why do you refer to her as Skeleton? Like she’s in my closet scaring me?) she was finishing up her PhD in organic chemistry and I had gone back to finish my undergrad. We moved to DC so we could both go to law school. Now she’s the one with the fancy job, and I gave up my career ambitions to support her. Now she doesn’t want to make me whole.
So yeah, power manifested as money. Yes, she’s a lawyer but she’s not a divorce lawyer. And she’s brilliant and cunning. I spent January emailing her about how much of a bitch she is. I am not giving her an inch. And she hasn’t communicated except via lawyers since January 14. (See this letter of mine Chump Lady answered: http://www.chumplady.com/2016/01/66083/ ) She doesn’t want to give me my day in court because we live in a fault state, and I am going to get a divorce for adultery and subpoenaed her Match Stick.
I’m hoping your lawyer can go for her future earnings since you supported her during her degree. As to your earlier comment, I agree that people need to be very careful if they chose to confront their cheaters. It can be extremely dangerous. Although I don’t run with dangerous crowds (actually I chase them), I prefer anyone of them over Fucktard. What they are is right out there in the open. There is no illusion, no trying to be something that they’re not. There have been times when I’ve walked up to them and they just muttered, “shit” and turned and put their hands behind their backs. Others are mean, vicious assholes that could easily stab me if I wasn’t careful, but they never have pretended to love me while doing it.
“Others are mean, vicious assholes that could easily stab me if I wasn’t careful, but they never have pretended to love me while doing it.”
Yeppers…..That’s the difference!
Love you Annie!!!
Please stay safe!
Loving you right back Forgeon. It was great to hear from you today.
The “dangerous crowds” in question were mainly my white trash family and some of the dudes I ran around with in my twenties. I outgrew them and they are mostly dead or locked the fuck up. I was trying to use “dangerous crowds” as a reference to Only the Good Die Young by Billy Joel. Because as Lyn said, “music is my first and forever love.”
I told Match Girl the longer she waited to divorce me the more it would cost her. Every penny she makes until the decree is signed is partially mine. Greed masquerading as love.
Ian, I’m stealing “fucking violent liar.” It is fucking lovely. Thank you.?
No need to credit me for anything clever I say, I likely stole it too. a la T.S. Eliot “Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal”
I did not have a big dramatic pre-divorce unchump moment. I played it pretty quiet and close to the chest. On the advice of my attorney I did not discuss many of the things that I learned in the “lining up the ducks” phase. Our few appointment with a mediator we joked and laughed and were perfectly pleasant.
There were two times that I made it clear that I was on to him:
1) In telling the mediator what I wanted in the settlement, I said something like “I am not looking to unpack a lot of issues, but I have significant concerns about an inappropriate relationship with a coworker. Since he also had her do work for his private business, which is a part of our community property, I’m worried about any liability I may have in the event that she decides that litigation surrounding this behavior was coerced or inappropriate. I would like language in the settlement that insures that if there is ever any legal action in regards to anything pertaining to the business that it is not my responsibility to be involved. In addition, any fees I may incur as a result of my involvement will be covered by ExH.” I basically told the mediator that he fucked his secretary and if there is a sexual harassment suit it’s not my problem. He got that panicked look on his face and in his voice that he would get every time I almost caught him up to no good. I was done protecting his image and it was the first time I told someone in public… whore fucker … right there.
2) When he found out that I was going to have a lawyer review the settlement, I got some mild threats and rage. Nothing as bad as most… but I looked at him and I said: All you have done is lie to me for months. Why is this any different? You care nothing about me and I know that you will lie like it is breathing. You sure as fuck are not going to protect me, so I have to watch out for myself. So you lying asshole, I am getting a lawyer.” And he looked defeated and said “OK, you’re right.”
Isn’t it bizarre when they agree with you?? Even if only for a moment. My XH did this frequently, saying he couldn’t really argue with what I was saying. Then forgot all about that two days later. It was like he had a regular rinse cycle for his brain.
Yes
After three months of pick me dancing (gaslighting me, repeatedly telling me he ended the affair), I (unwillingly) unchumped myself after a 3rd and final dday. He went on a business trip promising me that he would not be with OW (But he later told me he went with every intention of being with OW). He took her back to his room, desperately tried to convince her to leave her husband. I called him on his lies/inconsistencies and he admitted the truth.
He came home and I stopped playing marriage police (why bother searching for the truth when everything is a lie). I told him he was abusing me and the children and that he needed to end the affair or leave. He left.
I honestly didn’t think he would make that choice. Who chooses to throw away their kids?! At the time, I didn’t want him to choose to leave and I was really messed up for a long time after he left. But now, 10 months later, I can clearly understand the extent of emotional abuse. It’s so difficult to see it when you are living it. I think there is a natural mechanism in us to shield us from a full awareness of it, as a protection. But its a grave disservice of our mind, because it keeps us stuck in the abuse.
Looking back, I wish I had thrown him out on dday 1, but it seemed like I was throwing away our marriage/family without even trying to fix it. And that seemed like a terrible thing to do to my kids. But the reality is that he threw our marriage/family away loooong before dday 1 and he NEVER had any intention of trying to fix it, he intended to do exactly the opposite. He still doesn’t intend to fix it, regardless of his promises/words, as demonstrated by his actions…continuing to fuck the OW every opportunity he gets. But fear not CN, she is working hard on her marriage (she is married with kids and a serial cheater), in between fucking my STBXH (sarcasm). Cause she wouldn’t want to give up CAKE! The OW and my STBXH are emotionally abusive assholes who deserve each other. I hope they continue to fuck each other up forever.
So for all you chumps on the fence, unchump yourself sooner than later, because cheaters cheat and liars lie. If they were people of good character, they would NEVER have lied/cheated in the first place. And it’s not the cheating that should make you decide to end your marriage, it’s the emotional abuse that goes hand in hand with cheating.
Brightness, denial is the first stage of grief and is a protection mechanism because we are not ready to face the truth. My wreckonciliation attempt seemed like another stage, bargaining. Loyalty is a chump quality.
His decision to leave is not a reflection on you. At least I know I gave it my all and then some. Maybe you can feel the same. I can’t be ashamed that I was willing to do anything to restore my marriage and preserve my family. Crossing a line by breaking his vows and then lying about it revealed his lack of character, but I just didn’t see that at first. And now I do.
Neverwouldhaveimagined,
Yes, I was definitely in denial and bargaining during pickme dance, but i had no idea at the time. And yes I would have done anything to save my marriage/family. I like to think I would have kicked him out if he had stayed and continued to refuse to end the affair. But I sat on that fence, smoking hopium, for months, so I doubt I would have had the courage to jump. I guess when you are pushed off the fence/cliff, then you just have to start swimming. And for a long time I thought I was drowning, but it turns out I’m a very strong swimmer! The riptide had me in its grip pulling me out to sea, but now I’m swimming parallel to the beach, and am slowly making my way back to shore.
Yes, I love this analogy. Thank you for your insight. It doesn’t matter how we got here, we’re all swimming now. Like you, I can also see the shore to my new life and meh. Sometimes it looks far off and the current is strong, but I am certain I can make it. This thread is about the moment deep down when we all knew we could do this. CN is amazing.
Continuing the riptide metaphor, you know what they say to do when you’re first being pulled out? Relax, and let it take you, and only later, when the worst is over, should you gather your strength and begin to slowly head back to shore. ?
Chump Lady – this is going to become a viral community soon.
If over 500 posts don’t convince you of that…..well, and so many daily new members.
This is a source probably bigger than you wanted to tackle when you started this work.
Please, are you thinking on a Ted Talk?
500 posts should get you invited!
Thank you for who you are!
This >>>”So for all you chumps on the fence, unchump yourself sooner than later, because cheaters cheat and liars lie. If they were people of good character, they would NEVER have lied/cheated in the first place. And it’s not the cheating that should make you decide to end your marriage, it’s the emotional abuse that goes hand in hand with cheating.”
There is nothing more truthful and correct than this statement by Brightness. Jeffrey Dahmer was a cheater even before we got engaged. He actually cheated on his college girlfriend with me! Now we didn’t have sex. He just asked if he could kiss me and I said yes. I was stupid. I know. I thought he was a “nice guy.” He didn’t come across as a ladies man at all! I thought we had some special and unique. I thought he was “the one” and he said later that I was “the one” among lots of other nice and romantic things he wrote to me in letters. Little did I know, I was one of many! So, he carried on with me via letters (this was before emailing) all the while he was still dating and having sex with his college girlfriend. He was just having such a hard time breaking up with her!!! Poor Sad Sausage. I fell for the whole thing, because I’m a chumpy co-dependent. So, yeah. He was a cheater from the beginning. I failed to see it, because I believed all the stories he told me. That I was his twu luv. lol. And after I moved 600+ miles to be with him, he was writing love letters to someone who moved to England for the Army. These cheaters and liars never change. It’s who they are and they like who they are and they are not going to change!
After he walked out, with now warning, and had not responded to my near-begging for 3 months – one night the lightbulb went on. Why was HE in control of MY life? How/when had I turned into such a doormat who was willing to wait for him to “decide what he wanted to do.”
Waitaminute. . . what HE wanted to do? This was MY life here, OUR marriage, and dammit, why is HE MAKING ALL THE DECISIONS?
That was the night I figured out how to get into the “secret” email account I knew he had (he’s so technically stupid it’s laughable) and found. . . dozens and dozens of Craigslist hookup arrangements going back years. Memberships in hookup websites, emails making arrangements while he was on business trips and even LOCAL stuff. Pinged his cell phone for location records: he’d been to several apartments and hotels within a block of his job over the last two months. Adding to all this, he had immediately moved in with a woman, a former coworker, he’d known for about 10 years about whom I never felt quite right. And, it turned out, neither did my kids. My DS24 asked me, out of the blue a couple weeks after Shithead bailed, “Mom, I hate to ask, but is Dad having an affair with Senior Slut? They give me the creeps.”
The fog instantly cleared. That business trip 8 years ago when his wedding ring “was stolen.” All those days he went down to her house over the last umpteen years to “help her” with house projects, car trouble, taking her out to dinner while I was away so “neither of you had to eat alone”, her uncomfortable closeness with our then small kids. DUH!
Since he’s never been good with money, I’d had the good sense to open my own bank accounts two weeks after he left, so that was in place. I immediately emailed him, told him to go straight to hell, and was in the lawyer’s office at 3:00 the next afternoon.
It hurt so badly – nearly 40 years of my life spent with someone I DID NOT KNOW. That was such a frightening thought – I slept with this man, had children with him, and did not have a clue who he really was.
The fucker, unbeknownst to me, had been devaluing the hell out of me, our marriage, and then DS – when DS refused to buy his “your Mom is so mean to me, I’ve been so unhappy for so long, I have a rightto be happy” bullshit and refuses to speak to or see his father, been over a year now – so now DS is “behaving like a toddler.” Shithead totally rewrote our marital history painting himself as the long suffering victim, blameshifted at an Olympic level, and then has the fucking NERVE to threaten to prosecute me for “hacking his email” during settlement negotiations if “things get crazy,” i.e. I don’t give in to his demands.
That moment, that one right there telling me he was going to prosecute me, put the steel in my spine. It was still emotional, hurtful, incredibly sad, crushing, etc., but I realized this man is an entitled asshole who was nothing but an anchor and if he HAD stuck around, his already overwhelming “needs,” (my back hurts, I was diagnosed diabetic, my knees hurt, I can’t sleep, are there ONIONS in that dish?, I can’t poop, I want MY weekend I don’t want to help with errands/housework/shopping/laundry/bill paying/home repair… and a blue million others) were making me into a mother, not a wife. And better yet, a mother who is always wrong. About everything. And I could see doing nothing but “taking care of him” for the rest of our lives. Oh hell no!
So, let her have him. And his greasy car clothes, his incessant need to have the TV on at full volume to a car show 24/7, his pathological loathing of onions, his constant whining, his lying, his cheating, his total lack of financial sense, his never wanting to go anywhere or do anything (“I need to watch The Race!”), his correcting you every time you say anything as he knows just EVERYTHING, his disgusting bathroom habits, the cheating (he was still on Craiglist even after moving in with her) the whole package.
How typical of a narc to choose someone who can focus on their needs alone; Senior Slut has no family, no kids, no one and nothing to distract her from him and his needs.
Just remember, Senior Slut, no returns. You wanted him soooo badly that your oh-so-Christian conscience let you fuck a married man? He’s all yours. Broke, saggy ass, limp dick and all. Enjoy!
i love this so much. good for you.
I am relieved for you that you got away from such a repulsive, nauseating maggot.
We are very similar….if someone threatens me with anything to do with prosecution, law enforcement…especially after THEY wronged ME…look out. They are my enemy and will be treated as one.
I am sorry you reproduced with this freak. Get away and find someone who is human.
And who doesn’t love onions? I saute them so much I buy them in 10 lb bags! 😉
Whoa! So much of this sounds like my XH who I was only with for a year. I’m actually feeling a little grateful he screwed me over so early on in the relationship so I never had to see his saggy ass form. Though he was diagnosed with diabetes and sleeping with a coworker he’d known for over a decade.
I’m sorry you had so long with him, but I’m also so proud of you for your badass exit and un-chumpifying yourself. No returns, LOL! You’re an inspiration!
I bet you put onions in everything now, geekmom! Gosh, 40 years……I’ve cried over 20 years married to a selfish prick. You are just so mighty and amazing! I hope you are enjoying your freedom from this horrible man.
We came back from Christmas vacation in Disney on Christmas Day, and he was acting weird the entire vacation and weeks prior to that. He gave me the weirdest Christmas card with my gift – it was something you would give your mail person. When asked about it, he said he gave mine by accident to their secretary at work. I didn’t buy it. When we got home, I demanded he tell me what was going on and he said, “I don’t think I can grow old with you.” That was it. I threw him out immediately. He was a serial cheater and my gut told me it was over. He left the house to go to his folks but came back the next day and I refused to open the door. A month later, I found out about the final OW. I had already decided to divorce him, with or without an OW. The guy was/is a complete loser and coward. Who wants that in their life?
Not you uniquelyme, definitely not you!
🙂 Neither you, CS! I love it that we all know what we DON’T want!
I learned an effective little technique from all of you that is AMAZEBALLS at getting rid of narcissists quickly. I will share my quiet little act of rebellion here so that the newly chumped, months from now, will read through these archives and hopefully be able to use it for themselves.
With PreyingMantis, I got the ILYBINILWY speech last year while PM was driving back from the family farm 11 hours away. Guess none of the OWs were available to chat with, huh? Well, I’d been hanging out here for a while and now I knew what the warning signs were. Although I didn’t have the hard evidence I was to acquire later, I knew this was a sure sign that there was at least one Somebody Else… which was one too many. This was my cue to start deleting PreyingMantis from all our financial accounts.. of course without notifying PM of this fact. Since I was the only wage earner, and PM hadn’t been working for the past couple years to “take care of the farm and my parents’ health issues”, I was in charge of the money. In fact, I always had been. Staying on top of bill paying and finances had never been PreyingMantis’ strong suit – smelled too much like adulting – so it was left to me to be the infrastructure person without a second thought on PM’s part.
*While we were still on the phone with each other*, I got busy deleting, deleting, deleting! (See? I’m not the only one who can do the discard!) All those automatic payments I’d set up for bills in PreyingMantis’ name – gone. All the automatic debits out of our joint account for subscriptions I never used – gone. My bank was quite helpful in blocking any recurring payments I’d been unable to delete myself (which was only two, and they did it for me right after we got off the phone). Sure, it took about 4 hours of frantic deleting, checking online bank statements for payment history, and email records… but the end result was that I ghosted financially without any confrontation. Best of all was when PreyingMantis officially changed address to the farm to hide a back work payment from me – and the online automatic payments turned back into paper bills… which now went elsewhere with no notification here. So it took anywhere from 2 – 4 months for PreyingMantis to figure out that the gravy train had stopped. Moveout day was shortly thereafter, as PM had really only been sticking around for the financial advantage of it. Once I stopped dispensing the goodies, PreyingMantis swiftly decided to be out the door.
Now, I wouldn’t say I’ve recovered to the point where my picker is fixed, but I *am* recovered to the point where I’m setting boundaries and enforcing them hard. I had a family member living with me with whom I was in a similarly codependent arrangement. She is your typical almost-but-not-quite-successful artist type. I will refer to her as GlutenFreeForTheAttentionIGetFromItCauseItMakesMeDifferent. Now, she made money from her artwork, but it was inconsistent and unpredictable. So we got into the habit of me covering certain of her bills, and then she’d pay me back. Well, she could get months behind on that, and then have serious difficulties with the paying-me-back-part. However, she’d have the money to attend conferences on the West Coast, buy costume contact lenses, spend a week at Burning Man… So once PreyingMantis was out of the picture, I decided to crack down on GlutenFree.
I claimed severe financial difficulties post-divorce (isn’t it a scream how narcissists consistently have no financial abilities and are so fiscally irresponsible they have no ability to gauge what your financial situation really actually is?) and used this as a pretext to stop covering bills. Once the I’ll-reimburse-you-when-I-have-the-cash mode turned into now-you-need-to-pay-your-way-in-real-time mode, GlutenFree lost no time finding another living arrangement. Even to the point of transferring her phone line to another, much more chumpy, friend’s account. For the icing on top of the cupcake, GlutenFree is a borderline hoarder – and now that she’s moving out… all that JUNK is going to become Someone Else’s Problem. And I get most of my basement, laundry room, and storage space back. And much lower utility bills.
No one is ever going to crowd me out of my life or living space EVER AGAIN.
You can reach freedom with a simple DELETE.
Here! Here! That was better than my movie! I love the way you got rid of those mooches, Gluten Free and PM! She was probably dropping acid at Burning Man like a fool.
It makes me sick someone would use you for money when have such a wonderful personality. Their LOSS!
The only luck I had was Good Time Charlie was very generous. He did not want money (he has more than me). He wanted me to accept a double life of cheating and being a druggie.
I love what you wrote below and am writing it in my journal:
No one is ever going to crowd me out of my life or living space EVER AGAIN.
lol. this >>>”GlutenFreeForTheAttentionIGetFromItCauseItMakesMeDifferent” Love the name!
I was getting weird vibes off of my husband. He had been in prison for 5-6 yrs for selling his pain meds. He had been out on parole for only 2 months. I tossed him out of my bedroom to the spare. Within 2wks I had hired an attorney and filed for divorce. I tossed the paperwork in his lap when it needed to be served. He was still living at my apt then. About another 2wks later found the love letters and hidden phone in the garage. I called his parole officer and told him I was tossing him out. I picked my husband up from doing his Community Service of 240 hours and told him to pack up. He was leaving. During this time my husband and the OW had never met in person. After I tossed him, his mother paid for her to fly from Tx to Wis. My husband got the “crabs” on that encounter. My husband’s mother an Episcopalian minister. I never talked to my husband again after I tossed him. However I did get shot at and the OW appeared on my property multiple times. My X married the OW in 2015. Now they can cultivate numerous colony’s of crabs together for a lifetime. They can celebrate their wedding anniversary as “crabfest” at Red Lobster. You’ll know them coming in because they’ll be scratching on a regular basis and wearing sweatpants. I’d say he got the “7 year itch”, but we were married 22 yrs. Guess he was a late bloomer.
Was she his prison pen pal?
Did you put money on his commissary and take his calls while he was in prison, and he was corresponding with this bitch?
Cheating in prison is rampant. Women like men who are trapped and cannot “run the streets.”
You just give them time. He will get bored with her quickly and he can go and have his pubic crab farm with another bus stop tramp.
lol about Crabfest at Red Lobster. Lots of funny chumps out there!
My un-chump moment came right after I booked us the most expensive room (or so it seemed) at a beautiful resort for 10 days in Maui, right after d-day.
He was in that delicious guilt mode. Thanks to this site, I knew it.
I didn’t ask him, I just booked the room and airline.
He choked but didn’t say anything.
This is never something we did in all our marital years and we could well afford it, so I figured I’d built up 36 yrs of a vacation.
And, spend, I did!
Massages by the lap pool. Great boy-hunks applying sunscreen to my back. (he wouldn’t come out of the room – guess h