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The Condescension of Other Women

dramaOWWhether it’s XOJane, Huffington Post, the Daily Mail, I swear I can’t read anything written by the Other Woman without obligatory “pity” for the poor chump. Shock. Horror. Why does she take him back? She’s a joke! I’m the one he dreams about really, blah, blah, blah.

The publisher knows their readers’ opprobrium will result in more page views, so there’s some cynical programming at work. But OW sites actually LINK to me and I read the same stuff there. The most recent one was some forum on LoveShack for people in extramarital relationships. (WTF? It appears to be a board about relationships, and I guess the editors have elevated fuckbuddies to the status of Legitimate Relationship You May Wish to Tells Others About.) Same deal — what does he see in HER? (the wife). She’s such a fool!

Is it hypocrisy? Projection? (I’m not pathetic, YOU’RE pathetic!) Do they tell themselves they are serving some Higher Purpose (like “improving his marriage”… snort) so it’s all okay? Oh no, I’m not being used! Eyes wide open here!

Or is it sour grapes? The cheater returns to his wife, and the OW thinks, “Why would she take him back, can’t she see he’s a cheater? A loser?”

Hey, OW — a public service announcement.

1) Your disdain for your cheating married man is ridiculous. YOU are a cheater. That loser that you pity the wife for being saddled with? — that’s the guy you wasted your life on, hanging out for hurried fucks, waiting for his furtive texts. Don’t pretend you’re above it — you devoted a lot of yourself to that loser. Traded your dignity for sleazy sex with the idiot. The wife? She had every reason to devote herself to him — she doesn’t know you EXIST. And once she discovers you exist? That’s HER business to contend with, not yours.

You’re going to judge her for her poor choice in partners? Bitch please, you CHOSE THE SAME GUY. Only he put a ring on it with the wife. That’s the one he’s seen in public with, and you’re the dirty secret. She doesn’t KNOW he’s a cheater. You DO — and yet YOU CHOOSE him over and over and let him fuck you, because apparently you’re not very discriminating.

2) Yes you got used. You think you were using him for sex? It was all very mutually gratifying and no one gets hurt? Bullshit. You hurt the chumps in this equation and you stole from them. And as much as I don’t care for you, you stole from yourself. You robbed yourself of the opportunity to love someone honestly and above board. Your self esteem is such that you accept this second-hand, used goods status, and then you want to dress it up as sophisticated and all-knowing? You can’t put lipstick on that pig. He uses you, you’re not special. You want proof of that? He goes home to a wife. And probably other OW too.

3) You are not enlightened. You are not part of the universal sisterhood. You aren’t a credit to our gender. You’re a throwback to an unenlightened age where men are this Valuable Resource without whom we have no economic or social status. So we must compete for them, by any means necessary. Lie, steal, cheat, spread your legs, do anything — all so that Important Man Chooses You.

Yeah, you want to dress this shit up like you don’t need a man. You just extract the best from him and leave the drudge work to his wife. You want us to believe you’re some femme fatale, the one he really thinks of, the all powerful seductress. You peddle the absurd notion that you’re a feminist really.

If you’re so all powerful and irresistible, what are you doing on a hook up site? Why are you poaching from the Taken pool? I mean, with super powers like yours, gosh, you could have any available man, right? So why not test that shit out in the open market place? Why the secrecy and the life half lived in the shadows?

You are not powerful. You demonstrate the most mortifying kind of weakness — desperation.

You want to project that desperation on to married women? Well you’re right. They are desperate after they find out about you. Their entire world, What They Thought They Had, crumbles. They have deep investments. Children. Mortgages. Shared years together. Family. In the beginning, yes, they usually are desperate to hold all that together and hold on to their husbands.

But here’s the difference between you and them — they kick ass. In time they do the thing you can’t do — they stand up for themselves. They demand better. They go it alone. They survive and rebuild. They ARE a credit to their gender.

You feed on the carrion of that dead marriage.

And you have the nerve to condescend to us?

Excerpted from a previous column. 

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
    • I learned a fairly long time ago that one can lose serious IQ points attempting to understand the mindset of both cheaters and their affair partners.
      We need to simply accept this. You can drive yourself mad trying to analyze and understand how their minds work. The are disordered assholes.

      • I agree, Arnold. I cannot understand my ex-husband at all. He had me, a beautiful wife. Someone who took care of just about everything for him. He had two beautiful children. He had a beautiful home that his beautiful wife took care of almost 100% on her own. His beautiful wife tried over and over again to try to figure out what wasn’t pleasing to the Cheater. What was she lacking? Not sexy enough? Lots of negligees, sex toys and lots of pleasures in the sack. Not smart enough? Read, read, read, watch documentaries, watch news shows, be up on current events. All the while when I’d bring up a interesting topic he’s say, “That’s common knowledge.” or “I knew that already.” Fucking asshole, when Nik Wallenda walked across Niagara Falls, he pretended (lied again!!!!!!) that he had no clue what was going on even though the company he worked for was thoroughly involved in the whole thing. They were Tweeting and Facebooking the whole thing, but he lied and said he knew nothing about it. He pouted downstairs “working” also known viewing pornography when no one was around and left the kids and I by ourselves again to watch another wonderful thing without him. And there is current slut. He’s had many sluts over the years. I refuse to try to analyze them. They are all sluts to me. Home wreckers. Needy women who can’t find a decent guy on their own and the thrill of being wanted by a married man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, what can possibly be better than being wanted by a cheater and liar?!! Of course the wife is crazy!! I’m so crazy that I’ve been able to turn my life around after being devalued once again, discarded, told I “never took good care of him” — and now I’m doing just great! I think we all need to look at what we been through and analyze the whole thing so we don’t make the same mistakes again. But eventually we need to be our best selves and gain a life like Chump Lady tells us to. I hope to meet her some day and give her a big hug and a kiss on the cheek. 🙂

        • If you have ever read the OW post on say, Loveshack, you can see just how intellectually and emotionally challenged thee types are.
          In some ways it is comical; in others-sad and pathetic.
          These are not people, the affair partners, to be taken seriously about anything. They are dull, vapid etc.
          The really messed up ones are the ones, like that Eat, Pray( prey?) author who truly believe they belong to some enlightened class and who spew new age sounding garbage( the word salad CL describes).
          I think it should be your first big clue that you are dealing with a screwball if, despite a reasonable ability to comprehend most things, you cannot follow what these folks are saying. They string words and phrases together that make no sense, but have some sort of ring to them.

          • Arnold, I will check out the OW posts on Loveshack. I’ve never visited that site or any site that gave voice to the OW. A few weeks back, CL responded to the OW and a lot of people went off on her. I saw the beginning of the posts from CN and it was bad!! Anyway… ex is a very educated man in the business realm. I’m sure most of his sluts are just as educated as him or at least have some college education. I can’t imagine them being dull and vapid. I’m not dull and vapid, so I’m unsure why he’d go for this type! But they most certainly are lacking something if being involved with a married man does something for them. And then there’s the word salad. My ex is great at word salad. He can even talk word salad. He’s puts things together and I was like, what the heck are you talking about? It’s funny about the Eat, Prey, Love author. I saw her on Oprah at the height over he novel release. Oprah was all, “you are so great!!!” and every time that woman opened her mouth, I kept thinking, “she is so full of herself.” I did not like her. I was going to read her book until I saw her talk. She left her first husband because she cheated on him? I think in the book she said God told her to leave her husband, but I could be wrong on that. I’m just going from what I remember from the Oprah interview. I’m rambling…..sorry. These people just get me so worked up. And they get away with it. That’s what bugs me the most.

  • Carrion feast. I would never attempt to build from the ashes she has. That’s why we are different. I e never fancied being a bit on the side.

  • It’s funny, it seems like as soon as you set them free to fully experience the seductress they dream about during their marriage in real time- THAT is when you start getting the “help me, I made a horrible mistake” phone calls from the ex.
    Everything shiny and new gets old eventually when the stressors and monotony of every day life are applied to the affair partner who seemed so spectacular before reality set in.
    The other woman in my case was so above it all, so understanding, so whimsical and delightful ! Then they had to start waking up together .. Every . Single. Day.
    I could see her actually starting to look at me with a little bit of envy- not because I’m awesome, but because I was free of the plague (ex) she’d been weighed down with.
    As far as her using her skills to snag an available man on the open market? No way. She needed the padding and comfort of her own marriage and mine to work from- so she’d have a safety net if she failed to win. The open market has real competition!

    • Yeah, everyone looks wonderful and sparkly when you are having secret coffee and drink dates. Flirtatious emails and texts. Secret long lunch dates. Oh, that person sitting across from you — they are soooo wonderful, funny, fun, happy, witty…….just so darn nice. But at home, you have the wife who is doing all the shit work. Washing all your clothes for 20 years. Yeah, all those stinky socks. 20+ years of taking your dirty shirts to the drycleaners and then picking them up. Wiping your pee off the toilet for 20+ years. Planning meals, grocery shopping, and making dinner almost every single day for 20 years. Cleaning the house all by herself. Doing all the crap work that you were just too darn busy “working” to help out with. Yeah, that wife. She’s not all sparkly anymore. She’s tired. She feels like a slave, because she knows deep in heart that you go to work every day and flirt and carry-on with ho-workers. Well, she is soooooooooooo thankful now that she no longer has to slave after your ungrateful ass. She takes care of herself now. All that energy she poured into you? She pours into herself now. Let’s see how wonderful your slut is when the real life world sets in. Let’s see how wonderful she is then. I’m getting a great life without a cheater and pathological liar and every day gets better and better. Amen!

      • You just described my life with my ex. Just add in raising your two children, working 50+ hours a week, putting up with your enabling family…

        OW wasn’t sparkly during the affair, there are no signs of sparkles now they are married!

        • Sounds eerily familiar.
          I also woke up to the fact that she is so desperate the best she can do is a fantasy relationship with someone who dumped her 25 years ago, is married and lives 6000 miles away. WINNER!! And he keeps her interested by buying her stuff and lying about his life and his relationship with his kids.

          Not a stable foundation. Oh Well. No longer my circus and definitely not my monkeys.

          • “And he keeps her interested by buying her stuff and lying about his life and his relationship with his kids.” Huh. Maybe my ex is your ex’s AP. Your description (my ex doesn’t have a relationship with our kids because they won’t have anything to do with him) sure sounds familiar. My ex is currently living with one of his stripper GFs so maybe she’s the “wife” he complains about now? Eh, whatever… I too no longer own that circus. 🙂

            • Beth, when I read your comment I suddenly wondered if anyone had ever had the bizarre circumstance of coming here and finding out their ex actually WAS the affair partner of some other chump.
              Oh the humanity.

              • Yes, as a matter of fact, this has happened. I’ll let those two chumps chime in if they wish.

        • +1 I actually thought the poster had followed me around during my marriage. Then I realized I had done this shit work for 39 years, not just 20!

        • Yeah, GoneGirl. I have two children, too, that I honestly feel I raised almost on my own. I work 30 hours a week and I had to put-up with his entitled family, too. Oh, don’t worry, everyone! Martha will do everything. She’s more than happy to slave after you. She’s more than happy to host every holiday except for Easter. She’s more than happy to slave after the Entitled on Mother’s Day. Nothing made me happier to have my now ex-husband say to me on Mother’s Day after I asked him, “Aren’t you going to wish me happy Mother’s Day?” To which is replied, “You are not my mother.” THIS after spending a few days cleaning the entire house, baking and cooking for his entitled mommy, aunts and cousins for Mother’s Day. And I watch the Entitled sit around and have fun while I, Cinderella pre-glass slipper, was waiting on them hand and foot. Ultimate Chump I was! But not anymore and will never be again!!!

          • what is it with these assholes and Mother’s Day? The line they all use “you’re not my mother” must be in the cheater playbook!

            • I have read this comment repeatedly on this site, and still can’t wrap my mind around it. I mean, to utter such a statement is simply idiotic in all caps (not to mention all the other things says about your guy). Good grief.

              • Yes, they suck and a lot of them say it. I wrote back a few months ago and so many women wrote back that they heard the same thing. It’s truly sad, but at least we all know we are together in dealing with these creeps and it’s not us with the problem, but them.

          • yup, i got this line too. so imagine my surprise after DDay to find emails he wrote to a previous OW that I didn’t know about when I kicked him out… wishing her a “deeply warm and rewarding Mother’s Day.” WTF?????

      • Martha!
        EXCELLENT! Beautifully written….
        [[[[[APPLAUSE / APPLAUSE / APPLAUSE!!!]]]]]
        THIS is what REAL women do!
        (And, real MEN. Many of our manly chumps were the ones doing these things for their ungrateful wives / And doing it WELL! Hugs to them….)

        Love all y’all and am so glad Tracy re-ran this excerpt! Excellent reminders!

        • Thank you, ForgeOn! 🙂 And I love to read all the comments from the men chumps. I actually have a male chump friend. It’s a long story. But I’m so proud of him. He’s getting a life. He’s done great things after being chumped. He has a beautiful and smart girlfriend now. We encourage each other and congrats! each other. I’m just always happy to hear from the guys, because it gives me some hope that not all men are cheaters and liars.

      • Martha, once again it freaks me out that someone else’s story could be my own.

        • I hear you, Louisvilleflower. I’ve been reading CL since the beginning of 2016 and to this day I still get surprised at what people say and how it’s so similar to my story. Sooooo thankful for CL and CN! I truly felt I was the one with the problem until I came here. It’s not me, but him. Thankful, thankful, thankful. 🙂

      • Just change that number to 30 years and we have the same story. I am slowly rebuilding my life, going back to school at age 49 after a lifetime of raising kids and taking care of everything. At first, it hurt like hell to see him treating her out for dinners etc. However, now all I want is to be free of him. Too many years wasted.

        • I’m going back to school, too! CL told me to turn my part-time job into a full-time job and that’s hard to do without a good education. So……..I’m going back to school to be a nurse! I’ve wanted to be a nurse since high school, so it looks like it’s going to happen! 🙂 It’s very scary, but what choice to I have! 🙂 Gotta “gain a life!” Good luck going back to school, Denise. 🙂

        • Yes, Ex-orcist. 🙂 Life is getting sweeter day by day. About a month ago I realized my head doesn’t hurt anymore. It wasn’t a headache. It was just the weight of everything making my brain hurt — tough to explain. BTW, I love your name. 🙂 Very clever.

          • Martha, I fully understand the “my brain hurt” part. I think is comes from having our hearts and our guts ripped out of our bodies and us being thrown under a bus and our brains trying to make sense of it all. My head stopped hurting some time back but every now and again my hurt still aches for what could have been and what should have been.

              • I’m so sorry, Maree, that you heart still aches. 🙁 Mine does too sometimes and it’s so awful, hey? 🙁 Hopefully that goes away for you soon. Yeah, about the head hurting. I never mentioned it to anyone as I thought it was “all in my head” like I was imaging it. But then one day I realized the brain pain was gone. I then mentioned it to a few friends who went thru a traumatic divorce and they said they had the same pain too. I think you are right about what causes it. It’s all the trauma and “thinking” we are doing, trying to make sense of it all. (((HUGS))) to you, Maree. I hope your heart feels better soon.

      • So similar. 7 months since DD#? and although I know life without the cheater will be better than the last 20 years, this pain can be unbearable at times. Thanks for the reminder that this is day-by-day.

        • Slowtoheal, it is a slow process, but trust all of us, the pain will go away. A year ago, heck a few months ago, I was still in a lot of pain. But it is soooo nice be cheater/liar free. I didn’t realize how much stress I was under living with him. Living with the constant almost daily stupid lies. Cheater telling me that there was “no one” he was seeing out for lunch dates. Yeah, there was no one for lunch dates. But there was a special someone he saw out for secret morning coffee dates the previous nine years. And once the slut got divorced, the cheater so conveniently changed the morning coffee date into a late night drinks and some “talking” in the car after they got kicked out of the bar at midnight. So WONDERFUL not to have to deal with the lies, disrespect and betrayal. Cheater free is paradise! You’ll get there, Slowtoheal. 🙂

          • Thank you Martha. I struggle daily with so many different aspects of this process but reading CL/CN has helped tremendously. And yes, the lying? The look you in the eye lies? No integrity, no character, and now just image management and “we grew apart” crap.

            • Yes, Slowtoheal, I totally understand what you just said. My ex did the “we grew apart” and “she’s crazy” to his ho-workers and bosses at work. All lies. And looking you straight in the eyes and lying to you — my ex is an expert at this. I didn’t realize it until after D-Day when he continued to lie about other stuff that I already knew what the truth was. It’s truly unnerving how they are able to do it. Be gentle with yourself, Slowtoheal. I didn’t know what that meant when I was told that almost two years ago. But it’s just taking good care of yourself. I truly spent almost an entire weeks vacation (my kids were at their dads) reading CL from the very beginning. I needed to read everything and learn all I could! I don’t look at it as time wasted. If I was reading a novel would that be time wasted? No, of course not! So I read the Chump Lady blog novel from the beginning! That was me taking good care of myself. 🙂 Slowtoheal, you’ll get there. I’m not at meh yet, but I’m getting there. And you will too. CL and CN is the best support group I’ve ever belonged to. I’m proud to say I’m a chump, because I’m in good company with nice people like me. 🙂

        • Slow to Heal. I wrote to Chump Lady about 10 days ago, which she posted a response, asking when the pain will end. I’m 6 months since DDay and having a terrible setback emotionally as if it happened last week. I know where you are coming from. I know Tuesday is out there but can’t get past Monday to find it. Feels like an old vinyl album that keeps skipping in a groove and won’t move on. I understand where you are. I’m there too.

          • The setbacks hit me hard. I have made minimal progress since the discard, i.e., just getting through the day is an accomplishment. I just keep telling myself life will be better without him. Thank you for your response. This site has been the most useful tool in the recovery process.

      • Yep! I bust out laughing when watch She Devil with Rosaanne Bar which was my reality ……now his realty! Love being free ..,, thank you Chump Nation …no more covert gas lighting!

    • UghNo, no kidding! The moment we chumps set that cheater free is the moment they realize where all their cheating has led them! Right at the gates of Hell! These cheaters buy into the fantasy “pillow talk” they have with their Schmoopies about how wonderful life will be once the dreaded spouse is gone, but it rarely works out well. These slags find out that lover boy has to legally meet monthly obligations to the old ball and chain and the kids they left behind. It puts a huge damper on that carefree life they thought they would have. Unfortunately we chumps don’t just dissolve into fairy dust and it’s such a huge disappointment to Schmoopie! Add the fact that cheater now has awakened (rudely) from his trance like state to the reality that his life is now in the dumper and you have the beginning of the end of the “special love” they shared! The cheater realizes for the first time that Schmoopie is just another ball and chain and all that newness wears off in record time!

      • X could not get away from OW fast enough once I made it clear I had no interest in being part of their sick triad. OW was so sure she was about to cash in on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but instead, she ended up losing it all. Home, marriage, job, hell, even her adult children bailed on her. The final blow was when one of her kids very publicly joined a bunch of anti-religion organizations; OW is a fanatical born again Christian. I guess after she really screwed up their lives, her kids wanted to make sure she knew how angry they were. Karma’s a bitch.

        • Born again Christians/ Christians do not commit adultery, covet, lie, steal, intentionally hurt others, cause their children to sin or put themselves above God and other people!
          Christianity is not an entitlement package. God’s grace,mercy and forgiveness does not give people permission to sin.

          • But cheaters believe that God will forgive them because they “are sorry.” No. If there is no repentance and turning away from their sin, then they are not forgiven. God cannot be mocked! I forgave my cheater/liar again and again for hurting me. But there was no true repentance. He just continued to cheat and lie. I was mocked, but not anymore!

      • I don’t know why Major Cheaterpants and Susan of Seattle broke up, but I imagine that (aside from his delusions of grandeur) one of them eventually did the math and figured out how far “half his income and retirement” would get them once I got my half. I know they planned to buy her a $40,000 diamond, but in reality he would have needed his money for rent and car pmt. how sad that was. boo freaking hoo.

        He had another ow who at least had the decency not to come to the funeral even though both of them were at his retirement. I wonder what their grief was like having to hide it. You dont get bereavement leave because your married fuckbuddy died.

        I hope they consider him their great lost tragic love and never figure out that he was a covert narc. I hope they spend their declining years dwelling on him.

    • Padding and comfort of our and their marriage is so true and accurate. It’s not until the spouses that take care of day to day business are gone that they have the “oh shit” moment. Yeah, real life is tough, hope you have fun with it!

    • Someone always needs to take out the garbage. Real life has responsibilities. Moving on to the affair partner doesn’t make the doldrums of co habitation disappear.

      • I just found out my ex moved his affair partner in and announced their intent to marry next year. They did this at my sister in laws 40th birthday bash (I was invited, this in law and I are very close, but I was unable to go because of work). I was informed the ho arrived drunk/high, impressing everyone with her slurred speech and stumbling. My ex literally halted conversation and elicited stares due to his altered appearance (skinny and unkempt).
        As I listened to this story, I kept thinking what is wrong with them, how can they possibly think this will work? Who is this man that I was married to for 23 years? I’ll never know, and I’m okay with that now. Anyone that has to abuse a substance in order to show their face in public has far greater problems than just being a cheating liar. Good luck with that. There isn’t a dumpster big enough for the garbage they are hoarding…

        • Glad you threw out the trash, Pondscumbgone! We all have to and doesn’t it just feel so good!

  • I will never understand why any woman will waste her looks, her youth, her time on a man that refuses to commit to her. My x controlled his hoes, told them when to call or text. If these guys won’t honor you by commiting their finances, children, homes, insurance polices retirement funds etc, what exactly are you getting? Wet draws and maybe a Happy Meal, because ow knowingly enter a relationship with a known liar. X often said they knew i was married and he wasn’t looking for another wife. he also said none of his hoes was worth him his marriage, but I had the last say so in regards to that.
    No one controls a cheat, neither wife nor ow. And just incase ow thinks their pussy is majical, no. Pussy, is pussy, is pussy except he dosen’t have to work that hard for it. According to him there are so many lonely desperate women willing to do anything, including eat his ass. Grab a spoon ow and eat up! Enjoy!

    • The willingness to accept being the dirty secret is always what gets me. I know it makes them feel powerful and worthwhile to be the exciting garden of delights as opposed to the sturdy hardworking boring spouse- but most adults understand that the fiery spark of passion eventually gets extinguished by the fire hose of life. And then what? You’re left holding a dead shark.
      I guess based on the sheer number of friends and family who have been affected by cheating, there must be a whole subterranean population of these kinds of people- willing to accept very little in order to grab the golden ring of a married person who cheats on their spouse.

      • Garden of delights, gurl that too romantic. I think the term new pussy describes the shallowness of these relationships. A garden has to be cultivqated, planted, weeded, fertilized and harvested at he right time. New pussy is just finding a new whole in which to try the latest porn techniques. Anyone will do as long as she has a vagina or a mouth, a living blow up doll.

      • It’s a huge indicator of the total lack of value the ow/om sees in his/her self from the outset. A person who felt sure s/he mattered would never accept being the expendable crew member in a relationship.

        • True but some of these hoes delight in the responsibility of not actually caring for the MM. I questioned x about this and asked why he didn’t look for a woman that was the total package. His answer- they were just hoes and hoes are good for one thing. After all they were so appreciative of the Happy Meals and token gifts/treats. Fair exchange, cheap $100 jewelry and OW lets me do her in the ass. A dinner and she eats my ass. Or this ow is good for certain acts. Prostitution has competition!

          • ” I questioned x about this and asked why he didn’t look for a woman that was the total package.”

            He isn’t looking to get married and have kids. He already did all that. Now he’s is just looking to fuck around. Why would he go for quality? He’s just looking to get laid. So he doesn’t care who he is with, he’s not going for quality, he’s not looking for a wife. He did the wife thing, he had the kids. He’s only looking to pleasure his dick now. And he’s right, that there are tons of desperate women out there, who will put up with anything.

            • Did you meet my x? That’s exactly the sort of thing that he would say before the divorce. Now that he is my x,he is finding out his appeal was connected to being a husband. Mate poachers aren’t interested in doing the heavy lifting….AND no more excuses as to why he can’t marry them. Plus he gets the added bene of surroundinding himself with a bevy of women who cheat, lie and sleep with married men. Funny how that works.

              • I agree Renewed. I can’t tell you how insightful you initial post is. I printed it out and will reread. You’re so right in that you’re spending time and your youth, and you’re not even getting a commitment in return. So you’re getting nothing in return essentially.

                And having meaningless sex must get old. It’s easy sex, just porking around, that kind of existence isn’t very appealing. Living like an animal, not exercising much thought, just going through the motions. Your EX is coming to the realization now that his appeal was connected to being a husband. That idiot. Real men realize this while married and don’t cheat, because they understand this up front. It took your EX all this drama and chaos to realize and appreciate what he had under his nose. Too late, too bad, so sad.

              • Long time lurker, first time poster. Had to finally pipe up jusy to say THIS. “…he is finding out his appeal was connected to being a husband.” Absolutely this. Yes, girl preach!

              • A young tramp who was hanging out at a club told a friend of mine that married men were the easiest to pick up because they were used to getting sex whenever they wanted it!

    • Renewed, girl you just said it ALL!!!! That’s all these hoes are, NEW pussy. Like they say, there’s nothing like it. Oh, and the hard working wife? She can’t compete with NEW pussy. If these dumb sluts wanted a wet ass they could have just sprinkled some water on that hot thang and called it a day!!

      Renewed, you ROCK!

      • These assholes just want the attention… That’s all it’s about. ME, ME, MEEEEEEEE and my special c-ck. They want to make sure that they aren’t missing out on anything, so why not pork the half drunk girl who he knows thinks he looks good and keeps looking his way? I mean, WHY NOT?

    • My cheater said, well what if they didn’t know about the wife? Well then you’re even more of a dirty scumbag than you were just 5 seconds ago! I had that happen to me as a single woman. Thank goodness I never went on a date with him! He made the mistake of taking a selfie of himself with his wedding ring on and I told him “don’t you ever contact me again”. Fucking assholes!

  • I will NEVER understand why another woman would want another woman’s husband. All the women my now ex was involved with over the years — they knew he was married, some of them met me, they must of known he was a cheater because he was flirting and cheating with them — yet, they still wanted them. Well, ho-workers. YOU CAN HAVE MY LEFTOVERS! And he’s not delicious leftovers like next-day lasagna. He’s more like leftover chicken, microwaved on high for one minute. Still somewhat cold and rubbery when you bite into it. Go at it girls! He’s not that attractive now that he’s not married. Knowing what I know now (a big THANK YOU to CL and CN!!!!) I wouldn’t take that assbrain back in a million years.

    • ” more like leftover chicken, microwaved on high for one minute. Still somewhat cold and rubbery when you bite into it”

      I love this!!!!

    • You’re right on the money. Not in a million years would I take him back. It finally feels liberating to not be worrying about him, his health, his problems, and his family. I had his best years (such as they were), she is welcome to the rest.

    • Martha,
      I wanted to tell you how smart you are to choose nursing. I met this lady at a hotel and she is a traveling nurse. She fills in for people in certain mile distance for an agency. They pay for her to stay at the Mariott, a per diem and her gas. She makes $65 per hour. She had a cabin in the Blue Ridge mountains with her two maltipoos. She can tell them “no” for an assignment and travel or chill with her dogs.
      And…she was a chump. This was years ago but she remained single. We had drinks at the bar and she was a delight. This was her second chance at life.
      You are insuring a way to make good money and helping people.
      It doesnt get any better than THAT!

      • Thanks, Sylvia. 🙂 It’s funny, but I “liked” a traveling nurses page on Facebook a few weeks ago. That sounds really interesting to be a traveling nurse. I totally agree with you about helping people. That’s something that comes naturally to me and I enjoy helping and encouraging people, so hopefully I’ll be a good nurse! 🙂

    • One chump’s trash is a trashy woman’s treasure.

      Knowing what I know about X’s bimbo, I can emphatically report that they are absolutely perfect for each other! Both are self-important, self righteous, selfish barnacles on the bottom feeders in the deepest, darkest depths of our oceans.

    • I believe the OW in my case wanted to take what was not hers and make it hers. I believe that she derived pleasure from tainting another woman’s husband with her body, feeling like the desired one and like she was so powerful that she was able to break up a marriage.

    • I agree Martha! They can have my leftovers too because he def ain’t that pretty these days! Looking OOOOOOOLD

  • The OW in my case was also a chump herself. Obviously, what she learned from her experience was that the only way to get a man going forward was to be the OW.
    She most likely idiolized the OW and saw something appealing about being a side dish to someone else. Desperate!!!

    • Good perspective, Chump Change. Ow in my case was supposedly cheated on. But she’s a liar too, so who really knows. Not to his credit, but if she heard the things my ex said about her, she wouldn’t feel quite so superior and good about herself.

    • I admit that I had a very brief period of fantasizing about taking my revenge by being an OW in the aftermath of d-day. I was so tired of being the meanie, the dredges, the one to settle for. *I* wanted to be the special one. *I* wanted some kibbles! I of course never acted on this brief inner tantrum because I don’t suck. I also knew that fixing my picker would result in being special to someone WITHOUT having to degrade myself or damage other people. So I can actually sympathize with the compulsion to go from chump to OW, but once someone crosses the line and actually chooses to act on it? They’re no better than your dime store cheater, and probably worse because they know first hand the fallout.

    • When you’re a chump and become the OW, you are rotten. You know how it feels, so why would you do that to someone else?! I will never be second best and if that means catching a cheater, I will choose that route every single time. I refuse to be lied to and taken advantage of. Don’t waste my time, MF!

  • My favorite part of those ow forums is how they blame all the crap they do on the married man. Lol, believe that is your want to. Whatever they do is their own responsibility, not a married man who has the same low moral standards they do. I’m like you, CL, I think they cheat with married men cause they can’t stand the competition on the Open Market. You know, the one where the competition knows they are in a competition.

    • Yeah- the open market is rough. I got tossed into the deep end of that pool and actually couldn’t stop laughing at the absurdity of trying to generate interest when my fellow swimmers looked like Cindy Crawford and were brain surgeons and rocket scientists.
      I’ll have to really work on my dance skills and comedy routine.

      • Don’t sell yourself short, ugh no. I’m enjoying being older. It’s not about how you look or what you do, so much as what you ARE. You can buy a lot of things but you can’t buy character and respect. In fact, you can’t buy most of the important things. 🙂

      • This is why we have to fix who we pick to date. Boys who are going for perfect/eye candy don’t do a thing for me anymore. You can smell narcissism a mile away.

    • They secretly want your man! That’s why they give it up! I had that happen with a girl about 10 or more years younger than me. She flaunted herself in front of him like she was gonna be the next GF in line, and she wanted me to move over! Problem is, the man already has the appliance! They only need you to be that side piece to be the side piece! Silly whores…

  • Cheater often see every aspect of every major relationship through a distorted lens. The cheater is the victim, the chump is oppressive, the AP is virtuous, the affair is true love, and the marriage is a prison. One reason I was unable I sustain reconciliation was my inability to imagine remaining partners with someone who was so profoundly unable to perceive obvious truths about the world around them. Like trying to drive a car holding your family while looking over your shoulder at a funhouse mirror to steer.

    • Yea. This. I felt like he was a risk to our family with his warped impulsive thinking. His affair partners were all so virtuous. I was mean if I pointed out they were inappropriate in their behavior.

    • It took me a long time to really grasp what you’re saying nomar. I got that she sucked early on. It’s a more difficult leap to say that she’s bad. She’s crazy. She’s vindictive. It’s a much more powerful place. And I couldn’t have gotten there without time, no-contact, and CN.

      • Yep, awkwardly written, tapped quickly with thumbs while waiting for a train. I guess I meant I felt my ex wife was kinda going crazy. Imaging things and delusional. A half step from hallucinating. I couldn’t imagine relying on a person acting that way to help get kids safely from A to B, help pay bills, help care for aging parents, help plan for retirement, or help keep house, much less recognize right from wrong or remain faithful. Unpredictable and dangerous as a monkey with a pistol. I bailed as much for reasons that were practical as romantic.

        • You’re absolutely right. I know that if there had been more time after DD#1 before he came crawling back begging for forgiveness, I never would have let him back in the house. The shock and disbelief of my new reality caused me to be the delusional one. I looked at the monkey holding the pistol and believed it was a remorseful man.

    • Wow, the funhouse mirror. What a GREAT mental picture and description of the cheater lens!!! Brilliant

  • Desperate is the word – so desperate to be with a man that they sell out their values (if they ever had any). And insightless into how boringly predictable and hollow their excuses are. OW in my case was an apparently devoutly religious woman who justified her “innocent friendship” (i.e. adultery) with her student’s father because he told her he had a miserable marriage and he was SO WONDERFUL!!
    I can’t even read fiction books with an OW… e.g. Peter Carey’s “Chemistry of Tears” where the main character is a grief stricken OW whose “unhappily married” secret lover colleague died. When the character started reminiscing on how much she resented the time he spent with his “spoiled children” rather than her, I gave up on it and will throw the book out.

    • Yes. One of the two other women is such a Christian she can’t even talk about sex! Right. My children called his bluff. He has introduced them as friends but the children can see right through it. Which is why I agree with talking to the children otherwise they are left to form the wrong opinions about a immoral situation. My son is six and says to me this morning that his father is tricking these women.

  • In my personal experience, I don’t think she could get a man on her own in the big dating pool. My ex was the first to actually take the bait. Her MO was to go after unavailable men. And the ones who rejected her – she trashed in the community.

    These woman can fake self-esteem better than anyone. I mean really, if they are so wonderful and I’m so awful – how come they couldn’t land a man of their own on the open market? Because especially in my case men in mid_life are easy pickings. The children are almost grown and life gets messy. They are so caught up in the sparklies of “being in love” they don’t understand what true unconditional love is. They are so shallow that they need the excitement that “being in love” brings rather then the comfortable we can work through anything together type love. Because she is unencumbered with children, a house and all other responsibilities it taps it the Peter Pan that lurks within them.

    Guess what OW – when you reach the same destination point in your love journey with Prince Charming – don’t be surprised if he is off looking to “be in love” again.

  • Whatever the OW went through while she was the secret, she is now my ex’s partner.
    He and I were married for 25 years.
    With the “overlap”, she has been with him for at least 12 years – 6 years in the open.
    I know she got a disgusting cheater but she is happy with that and their relationship is strong.
    I wouldn’t want him back, and there was not one moment when he wanted to stay, but she is happy. She is a tough bitch with a warped perspective on life but she did end up exactly with and what she wanted.
    He lost his kids and looks terrible, but she only knows him without kids and as an unhappy person. From her point of view she is happy how it all wound up.
    Now being almost 60 and in the dating pool, sometimes it is really hard.

    • Rebecca maybe she got what she wanted, but you have integrity. She will never have that. You are surviving. You are a badass. You know it. And I know the future holds great things for you.

    • Rebecca,

      Me too! He was cheating on and off with her for nine year!!! There were 4 d-days and 5 alcohol detoxes in 5 years (because he hadz the sadz from leading a double life). They finally ran off together to have the life they dreamed of. They bought a house in FL, he retired early (60) and they don’t have to worry about paying any of his own bills or meeting any obligation to me. Because he had a cash business and lied throughout the divorce so I get saddled with all of the marital bills, no maintenance but the house and all the contents. Yes, I have heard about how wonderful she is. I would like her if I met her. She is on my side (huh?). He wanted to stay with his mother (oh, I mean wife) of 35 years, but it was twu luv and he couldn’t live without her. He explained that it “just started out as sex” but then it turned into a luv that defies the ages. That’s why he had to give up me, his only child, our family and all of our friends. He had to be with her!!! And then he stopped talking to me so I don’t really know what’s going on with him. I do know that she is a piece of shit because she knowingly fucked a married man (probably thousands of times at this point) while stupid little me sat at home waiting for me when I didn’t know, and then when I did, was dancing as hard as i could to save my marriage. Scared, lonely, heartbroken. There must be a special place in hell reserved for these women who poach other people’s husbands. I hope she enjoys the prize she won. She will be in trouble when the world resource of Viagra dries up and then they will have to talk to each other.

    • Rebecca,

      Yes! It can be so hard. I hear you. I am 40 and I have changed my number three times due to the mutants I met online dating.

      BUT….is she truly happy? Maybe. But, why would she be peaceful about having an unhappy partner (your X)? Think of it this way. I don’t have TV, but I have started watching episodes of Hoarders. I am an OCD (almost) cleaner and I can’t look away from the train wreck of these people. (I can’t watch it if I am eating). I just sit and stare in amazement at the way these people live.

      So here’s the thing. Some of those nuts do seem sort of happy, living in their piles of trash and used diapers and cat poo. Now, would WE be happy? Hell no. But, they don’t know anything else. They are disordered.

      So, is this bitch happy? It might be an ENTIRELY different concept of happy: She might like cracking the whip on a depressed man, or wallowing around in pity parties. You said she is tough. Maybe she is a sadistic punisher who loves keeping someone under her dirty thumb. We know she is a worthless cunt because she had relations with a married man. Could she honestly have a deep well of wisdom and peace to makes someone be truly “happy”. NO.

      Whenever you start to feel sad…think of a Saturday morning. You could lay in your jammies all day. You could eat pancakes in bed. You could watch 3 movies back to back on Netflix. There is “no man” to order the day to HIS WHIMS. She is his albatross now. Hanging around her neck. Your neck is light and free.

      Dating IS hard. But….(prepare for deep thought alert) I have stopped trying for a while. I have to go through this pain and solitude to learn what I did wrong (because I was wrong to stay with such a MUTANT). I always need to fix my picker.*** I need to LEARN THE LESSON. If I don’t learn the lesson…I will do it again.***

      Yes, I feel like my youth is gone or is running through my fingers. But, I can’t make someone appear that I am attracted to when I am just not.

      So, in this moment…just appreciate the absolute pure JOY of being the CAPTAIN OF YOUR OWN SHIP. Let her bitch ass tend to his whimpering sad sausage needs.

      You are free. You have a blank sheet of paper and a box of fresh water color pencils. Start drawing.

      • Yeah, Sylvia. You keep fixing that picker and learning that lesson, and then, watch out world. Here comes a smoking hot woman who knows her worth.

        • Thank you. That means so much to me. I apologize for having to go rogue thuggish with that….thing…but I could never tolerate a bully.
          It steams me like a volcano …someone relishing anothers pain.

      • I love this!!!

        appreciate the absolute pure JOY of being the CAPTAIN OF YOUR OWN SHIP!!!!

        I am about to take (another) break from dating. I’m looking forward to it. 🙂 And I have a fellow chump who is going to be single with me for a while!!!! Woot!

        • Conniered,
          It is so peaceful. Just one day at a time. Focusing on US.
          Seriously….imagine what we can accomplish.
          I wrote on a paper:
          Stay with this moment.
          My house My agenda.
          Take the break. It is like a vacation!!!

    • My ex ow emailed me and other family members to tell us what a horrible lying cheating old man he was and I was crazy taking him back (I was not though but she thought I was ) then boom week later they living together. Well good luck I say. They know fine well what they getting into but think CL says think they are special

    • Rebecca, while I certainly do not know your ex or his Owife, I seriously doubt they have a strong relationship. They are more than likely just stuck with one another, have no other options and put on a solid front for all to see, especially you. Keep in mind it is very typical of these couples to fake a happy life to the outside world. She may be smug about finally landing her lying ass cheater, but it took years and that will always eat at her.

  • BOOM!!! Great job on the smack down you served up to these opportunistic dick holsters, CL!! They are all vultures, circling the vulnerable dying animal but only landing near it once it’s dead. Then they chow down on the rotting corpse, filling up on maggots and bloated decomposing flesh. Vultures don’t have it in them to face a healthy animal head on – they are cowards. The one great thing about vultures is they clean up the the disgusting roadkill that stinks up our world. OW = Vulture.

    I so clearly remember X’s face when I laugh about his whore and said, “What kind of woman sneaks around for two years with a married man? What is so pathetic about her that she thinks that’s all she deserves? You picked a real winner there, Asshat!” She suddenly lost all charm for him. He thought she was special because she thought he was special until I pointed out what a miserable excuse for a human being this whore was. Old, used up, just looking for a payday in her coming twilight years so she wouldn’t have to work any longer.

    Other Women (and men) are the true scum of this earth. They like to tell themselves they’re not cheating on anyone but they are – they’re cheating on themselves. The high and mighty attitude they display is just defensiveness. Because if they were really honest with themselves about how they are being used, they’d probably jump out a window. Then a vulture could come and clean up their carcass. Nice symmetry.

    • ‘opportunistic dick holsters,’ Ha! Wonderful.

      New one on me Uneffing and I thought I’d heard all the terms 🙂

    • Uneffingbelievable- agree, agree, agree. Except in my case, the game is still on because he never lost his fascination for her.

      • Lost and Found,
        I have read so many of your wonderful posts but did not know the back story. I stopped eating when I read what happened. Remember THIS: those dinners will stop. And those two cheaters will remember….when the dust settles for real. ..and the long slog of life kicks in…oh…thats right-
        You are a liar
        And a cheater
        And the marriage police game will start.
        And you? You might be in a bubble bath or eating a cupcake….enjoying your new life.
        A cheater aint no prize. Have fun Freaks.

      • lostandfound: “..Except in my case, the game is still on because he never lost his fascination for her.”

        EITHER THIS:

        …he never lost his fascination with abomination.

        OR THIS:

        … he never lost his vacuous search for a REAL self except there never was going to be any real self, so he found a cheap mirror and called it a day.

        Which are the same thing. This whole narc thing, where occasionally they mirror each other really well? I’ve been around it, and I promise, it’s boring, trite and desperate . I’d rather watch Kim Kardashian. And I’ve never watched Kim Kardashian. I’ve never even had the faintest urge to watch Kim Kardashian (sorry, fans).

    • Your comments are amazing. Very descriptive and made me laugh, “Opportunistic dick holsters.” Too funny. Fucktard’s OW was more like shopvac trying to suck up discards on the Oscar Meyer Factory floor. Nothing like some soft rolling wieners and blobs of greyish bologna trying to be sucked up by a wet vac gone dry.

  • The OW in my life treated me with HUGE condescension, in a series of emails in which she admitted all the things she had stolen from my home, and listed the lies she was fed by Assclown cheater about what financial gain there would be for them once I was killed off. The fact was, she got caught by the cops and was forced to return my possessions, and not a red cent of financial gain passed to the happy couple.

    Fortunately, despite the shock of d-day, I feel good that my head ruled my heart and I threw him to her asap…and asked OW to NEVER considering sending him back.

    I laughed my head off the other day. Five years later, she is blogging about what a loser he is! She thinks having a mommy blog and kibitzing with other time waster bloggers about her man troubles is a full time job!

    • Good hell, LAJ is right about a horror story– when I read your first few lines about her emails I thought, NO WAY. “Killed off?” (As a former lawyer, that one sent me reeling: “WTF, was she ever in danger, and boy do I hope her divorce lawyer leveraged that somehow.”)

      Glad you get a laugh out of her blog. It does sound pathetically amusing, emphasis on pathetic. In this case, the karma bus apparently got turbo fuel injection and a website to broadcast the wreckage. I’m sure you weren’t laughing then, but the fact that you “asked OW to NEVER considering sending him back” has me grinning. Mighty you!

      • The full story is far worse than I described above. The two happy lovers actually did attempt to kill me – first he put lead paint in my dinner (I won’t say how he disguised it for fear of assisting any other nut cases), and I developed severe symptoms. That prompted me to keylog the computer to see what he was doing, and when I confronted him about the affair, he pulled a knife, held it to my throat, and kept me in a headlock for almost six hours, spitting the most vile threats, accusations and random craziness. He was and is mentally unstable, but mostly, is just broke and desperate.

        With no exaggeration, if a paramedic neighbour had not sensed something wrong about the noises he heard coming from our (open) front window and called the cops, I would certainly be dead now.

        My advice to any chump is: DO NOT confront your cheater. Just plan, plan, plan and then disappear. I would never have suspected mine capable of violence.

  • This post made me feel great. All those times I had the other woman looking down on me. Even had one call me to tell me my husband loved her, not me.

    Then she showed up drunk at the door one night, so I grabbed her and tried to show her the life she thought she wanted, dirty babies, clothes, a tiny apartment with the X’s paperwork strewn about the floor (his idiotic filing system) and his unfinished home projects, like a ripped up kitchen.

    I wanted to tell her if she wanted it, she could have it, (not my babies, of course,)but the X pushed her out of the door as I was dragging her in. Then the neighbors came into the stairwell to see what was going on. We put on a good show. My son, who was 6 at the time, still remembers it and it was 20 years ago. Why I still invested another 15 years in that idiot X after all the embarrassment he put me through…ugh!

  • Oh? According to my now xh, OW was a high caliber woman. IDK where all your cheaters found all these OW skanks!

    (^^ that was sarcasm. The best revenge was after talking to OW husband, a dedicated germaphobe.)

    Mine got exactly what she deserved. My xh, served up cold.

  • Ah, yes, the Cluster Fuck B Sociopath was sooooo happy to have Cock Slobber fawning all over him. Skipping around, laughing, certainly not his normal dead eyes, raging, spewing, spitting, venomous, evil, rude, condescending, abusive, tyrannical, judgemental, blame shifting, lazy, entitled, spawn of satan mindfucking self. Hmmmm… hard as it was, I decided it was time to let him get a good taste of what was out there. I already knew Cock Slobber was no fucking prize catch, but I also knew long term he would be fucking himself so hard, he was just too sociopathic to see the consequences on the horizon. Fast forward a year. I refuse to acknowledge his existence. I have no idea about his life with Cock Slobber. I do know they are stuck with each other. I maneuvered that to occur. I’m aware he is back to his normal self now. What??? No more skipping around?? Ummm…. Oh, you actually have to work now cuz Cock Slobber can’t keep a job very long??? Oh, Cock Slobber financed 2 brand new vehicles for you and your “business” is in her name ???(sounds familiar)… Only problem is without Cock Slobber you don’t have a vehicle to put in someone else’s name because you are revoked for your 6 drunk driving arrests. Also, your business has to be in someone else’s name because of your judgements, liens, etc.
    Yes, Cock Slobber was my punishment for refusing to start another business for him so I could have the great pleasure of being responsible for it and it’s bills while he would sit on his ass AND I WOULD DO THE WORK, BESIDES ALL THE OTHER WORK, AND MY REGULAR JOB….
    All I can say is thank you, thank you, thank you Cock Slobber. You can have my old horrific life and the catastrophes, stress, depression, bewilderment, frustration, etc, that automatically comes with a raging Sociopath. Yep, I know he was so wonderful in the beginning. He would have had to be to get my caliber of female. Yep, he is a love bombing charmer. Yep…..till he’s not. I don’t envy Cock Slobber. Not only is she stuck with him, but it will all be her fault too.
    Meanwhile, I’m about ready to get out of bed, grab a cup of coffee, sit on the deck, breathe in the beauty of nature, watch my horses graze, the dogs frolic and play, the pond glisten in the sun. Run on treadmill and blow out a 12 minute mile, then hike with the dogs. Then later today go to a job I love for a mere 6 hours?. I love my life. My misery is over. Her misery has just begun. Hey… wanted him✌

    • “Yep, I know he was so wonderful in the beginning. He would have had to be to get my caliber of female.” This is so true! That’s why my STBX hid the truth about himself and treated me like a royalty (in the beginning). He knew our values didn’t match up and that I wouldn’t have touched him with a ten foot pole if I’d known the truth. He always complained about “something for nothing people” and he turned out to be the worst of that kind.

      • “raging, spewing, spitting, venomous, evil, rude, condescending, abusive, tyrannical, judgemental, blame shifting, lazy, entitled, spawn of satan mindfucking self” this sooo describes my OW>

  • One thing the RIC really discourages is “confronting the ow/om” cause they will “hurt you” or you will “embarrass” yourself. So, I went against my better judgment and didn’t confront this bitch, even though I had all her information.

    One day I’d finally had enough of this shit. Called the slut. Texted her skeezy ass. She called me nasty names, threatened me, told me a few things ex had said about me.

    Guess what? It was the best thing I ever did. What a vapid, shallow, nasty, semi illiterate hose bag. Before that, I’d believed his view of this skank that she was a glamorous, desirable, beautiful woman. Nope, just a common variety skanky whore.

    • My x hid his ow identity. Once I found out who they were that power dynamic was shattered. My x also made claims about their looks, femininity, education etc. Needless to say he was embarrassed once their identities came to light.

    • I have never met or spoken to the OW. Everyone in my life was telling me not to. I do wonder about it sometime. Because the ex liked to jerk off into Saran Wrap (yup), I was thinking of sending her a case of it with this note: “You’ll be needing this.”

      • Lostandfound, is jerking off in Saran Wrap a common thing for some pervs? The reason I ask is that I had a good friend whose ex-husband was doing that and she would find some of his lovely filled discarded balls of semen treats behind the couch or she would find a box of Saran Wrap in his vehicle. The scary part of this sick story was apparently he was also a peeping Tom and was caught peeping outside of a friend of her daughters’ house. Also, I never really cared for the guy, and I always told my friend there was something kind of creepy about him, so guess what she finds out years later from counselors of her daughters school (it was my friend’s daughter, not his biological kid)? Yup, he had been molesting her since she was in grade school. She tried to throw that freak in jail, but they didn’t feel there was enough evidence and such, so he only ended up doing some time for the peeping of the daughters friend since she confirmed it was definitely him. When you mentioned the jerking off in the Saran Wrap, I just couldn’t help but think of this stuff. It was also found out that his first wife and daughter moved to another state after the first wife divorced him, so I also wonder if that monster molested his own daughter as well. What a bunch of sick freaks. Did your ex happen to live in the Midwest by chance, or is this more of a common deviant behavior for these assclowns? Just wondering.

      • I don’t get the Saran Wrap thing? I’m taking a cue from Ian and googling it.

            • Yes but you Google everything. Well, I do to, but good God there are just somethings that should come with a viewer warning.

              You know, now that I think about it, I just might go to the grocery store and put about 30 boxes of Saran Wrap in my cart. I will then go find the youngest male cash register clerk in the store. I will go through his line without saying a word. Then as I’m leaving, I will just wink. It will drive him nuts.

              • I relented and Googled. Wow. That’s a lot of trouble to go through for an orgasm by myself. Pass.

              • I googled it, too. Ughhhh. I can’t understand doing this, much less putting pictures of myself doing it on the internet. There are also people who dress like human dolls, and have “owners.”

                I mean, seriously? I’m just not that into sex, I guess…

  • I have (sorry to say) a court-side seat from which to survey the carnage Jackass’s MOW has made of her family. She got the big discard from Jackass, too, right after I caught them because she was indeed a dirty secret, from his point of view. She’s moved on and busy using the kids to hide her current relationship from STBX. I see train wreck coming from miles away. There isn’t a thing she could say that I would pay the slightest attention to.

  • I don’t understand what goes through an AP’s mind. I think I know what went through my wife’s AP’s mind – extra sex with another woman. But my wife’s? She was the OW to a married man, thought she was in love, thought he was going to leave his wife for her, and he’d just slip into my place as her husband and part-time father to our children. OM evidently did not share this vision at all (but who knows what he told her during the A to keep her around). So now she has neither of us, though I hear that she is still hanging out with OM and must be comfortable remaining his sidepiece.

    He’s married. He doesn’t care about her or her children. He’d rather be with his wife than her. But I’m too horrible to be around and that’s the guy she still wants. That’s all she is now, an OW. I don’t get it.

    • I agree it is pretty weird, Blindside. It seems like they’re more focused on the game of getting the other person than caring for the person they already have.

    • Don’t even try to figure out what is going through the mind of the disordered. No good can come from trying to untangle the skein. You have different values and thought processes. Stay strong.

    • SHE’s horrible. Who the hell is just fine to break up two families, succeeds in ruining one, and then hangs out with former AP who has dumped her? A nut job. That’s too nice. Let’s see ….. entitlement, obscene selfishness, ruthlessness, and if I had to bet, triggered because she got outplayed and is hanging around, quite literally, because she must win — and believes she can change his mind. The two of them, classless wonders. Does his wife know?

  • Just checked out ow at loveshack

    Pity party for themselves
    Mean and vindictive
    Self absorbed

    Some of them see themselves as superior, gloating that they got the loser and rub it in on the lesser ow.

    Imagine all these women in a room together, they’d eat each other alive. They fake support for each other but wouldn’t want anyone like themselves around their “man”.

    They remind me of my cheating ex-wife with her skewed mentality. She hated women, never trusted women, never had real friends and man poaching is their sport. If my ex-wife fell out with women friends she always claimed they were jealous of her. That’s the pattern, never trust a woman with no friends or a revolving door of friends.

    Yuck…need a shower after reading the loveshack ow forum posts.

    • Ok, the thought of a bunch of OW supporting each other hanging out in a room in real life with their men…that had me laughing out loud. Thanks M you for this.

  • What about the rare but painful scenario where the OW makes a long-term play for the loser husband and succeeds. I know he is still a big loser, but she got my life: my husband, my last name, 1/2 the time with my kids, my future, even my vacation condo.

    It feels like she gambled it all and eventually got the payoff she wanted. I know that long term it may bite her in the ass, but at this moment, it feels like she won.

    • Looking from the outside, it may look like OW/new wife got “everything”, but you certainly don’t know what goes on in their private lives.

      They chose each other. So be it. Would YOU accept a partner that cheated and abandoned his wife family for anyone? Including you?

      Once your partner decided to align themselves with affair partner, they changed their entire moral ethic. NOW that your spouses ethic has changed, you have to re consider it this person is marriage material for you.
      Would you accept this type of person as a long term partner?

      I wouldn’t. No matter how “Holy”, “Nice” my xh was for 30 years, when the rubber his the road, he turned into someone I would not consider as a friend, let alone husband.

      • “when the rubber his the road, he turned into someone I would not consider as a friend, let alone husband.”

        I remember when I was standing there trying to explain to my husband that going after a married coworker and trying to break up their family was wrong no matter how he felt about me, he looked like he wanted to kill me. That’s when it hit me — he was not who I thought he was. He did not have the integrity that I believed he did. He kept telling the kids that he and I would still be friends, but who needs friends like that?

      • +1 to “when the rubber hit the road, he turned into someone I would not consider as a friend, let alon husband.” This about sums it up. And my ex wants to be friends but he’s forgotten (or doesn’t care) that friends can trust each, they have each others’ backs, they are straight up with each other, they don’t lie to each other, that if something is wrong in the friendship they address it … A friend doesn’t drop you because something “better” comes along.

        So, nope, won’t be friends with my ex.

    • OW/wife get’s to tap dance for life. She had better swallow all sorts of shit sandwiches because everyone is watching her every move. And no. she doesn’t get your life, she gets half of your life, has to take care of another womans children, gets an older cheater and has to hump her ass to make up financially to replace his lost earnings. And there is always that nagging feeling he is going to cheat on her. Doesn’t look so good from here.

    • Me too, I’m with Stupid (love that). Except my child is grown and makes his own decisions. She stepped right into my life and they both walked over me like I was roadkill.

    • IWS,

      It’s not the rare but painful scenario, it’s your perspective from the location where you’re standing. Fucktard didn’t get anything from me and I felt the same way. Look at them as radioactive material. The only thing that will save you is time, distance, and shielding. Once time passes through no contact (or limited because of children) and you’re shielded from the day to day fuckedupness that is him, you will be standing in a new location and have a different view. Each time you move the view keeps getting better.

      It will never be fair that she has time with your children and the assets you lost, but I can tell you that it’s more than fair that they get stuck with each other. No matter how happy they look, don’t believe it for a minute. They’re the same miserable people as they ever were.

    • I can appreciate this point of view. I’d spent my entire life feeling like an outsider, too weird, depressed, introverted, whatever to love. And then I finally found *my* person. Now I’m back to where I was before, but with the added bonus of being discarded and being of no apparent value to someone who meant the world to me.

      I know I’m codependent. I know I was trying to find something that doesn’t exist in another person. Knowing these things doesn’t make the pain lessen. I might have integrity, but at this point I’m not sure I care.

      • We care. Dont be so hard on yourself Friend. NO ONE can tangle with a narcissistic person and be at peace or happiness.
        Just insights show me you have so much compassion and love to offer a LUCKY woman.
        Do not give up!!! ☺

      • Get you. You know I got my integrity to keep me warm…not. don’t know if I want to chalk it all up to integrity. I just don’t get why people got to be shits and betray others to this extent. And I understand the effort they pour into trying to get you to believe them.

      • Same for me. I was fully committed to my wife, our 3 kids and 5 fur balls, and the house and life we built. We reconciled after D-DAY 1 five years ago, had a beautiful daughter in our 40s, and the wham! Two more affairs, one still going on. My kids are devastated. I’m ok on a day-to-day basis, doing great in fact (10 months since the heartless discard). But my self esteem on terms of a relationship has always been low, now it’s rock bottom, even though I know smart attractive woman are interested in me. I question if I can keep someone happy… I have issues to resolve. LOL.

        • I should add that I am in not ready and not looking for someone else. My kids and rebuilding our lives is paramount.

          It’s just that I’m afraid I’ll never trust anyone again, and I suck at dating.

          • Healing while sharing kids with the disordered is a difficult journey, Forest. I am two years out and nowhere near wanting to date. I am doing my best to become my own best friend, to take care of myself with as much love and attention as I used to give my X and continue to give to my kiddo.


      • This is so 100% me right now. I was a special snowflake of weirdness and I am extremely shy and I found MY person. And then he stopped loving me and threw me away and I am devastated. He was my protector and my champion. He had my back he was my best friend. We worked together for our house and the few things we had and then he turned into a stranger and no longer cares. It sucks. How am I ever going to find happiness again? Even if it means learning to love myself 100% being alone is not the same as the safety of knowing in your darkest times someone will be there to hold you and let you know they care.

  • But here’s the difference between you and them — they kick ass. In time they do the thing you can’t do — they stand up for themselves. They demand better. They go it alone. They survive and rebuild. They ARE a credit to their gender.

    Uhhhh… what if the wife doesn’t kick ass? These pathetic loser doormats exist too lol! Like the wife of my fuck buddy, she has known of our affair for TWO YEARS and still puts up with it. Pick me dancing, ….[EDITED, as are some of the posts with more egregious language below. New suffering chumps come here every day, and they don’t need to read nastiness. -Tempest]

    OW Troll–don’t respond any further, CN.

      • If openly hurting others and behaving unkindly for years to another is your idea of “great fun”, then take a sec to reflect on how you’ve described yourself as a human being… Would you want to be friend with yourself? Right. “Ha, Ha”

    • No, that should read the wife doesn’t kick ass YET. The time will come, and then if she is lucky you can have him all to yourself. Enjoy.

    • Miss Behave,
      Wonderful post. I’m sure you know this guy is doing you and his wife too. If your vagina was so special why hasn’t he divorced hi wife so that he can screw you during the week day as well. We all know why. This guy is eating cake, he gets a wife who loves him and still has legal standing to his money and he get’s the hoe who just settles for wet draws.
      This guy is no prize and neither are you. Only a dumb ass woman would give her vagina away for free because even pros got sense enough to pay.

    • Miss Behave …. please don’t forget that your source of information for what you write about is your fuck buddy. Fuck buddies can lie to your face while enjoying what their “pathetic loser” wife is providing for them. He may say he finds her laughable, but he could be having sex with her AND you. He may say he doesn’t care about her, but why then isn’t he with you full-time? You might think it’s funny that the wife is begging for him, but have you ever thought that your fuck buddy might be getting off on it and just not sharing that information with you? He has both, and you’re one of them. Why would you want a man as a partner who is capable of laughing at someone else and making fun of them? Sure, his wife should leave him to you and get a better life, but in the meantime she is hurting, she is in pain, she is desperate, and you are with a man who is cold enough to let his wife beg for him … he is punishing her, laughing at her while she cries … even if he’s not lying to you, not fucking both of you, he is still not a man with compassion. Why would you want him?

    • Take the high road, Chumps. These people don’t deserve one second of our attention. They already lost their moral compass and their souls. We don’t need to walk that path with them.

      Interesting that this individual appears to be so familiar with this blog. (e.g. Pick-me dancing) We have to ask ourselves why that would be?

      • Elaine – becase she has nothing else to do during the week (only sees man whore on weekends) but read Chump Lady!

      • “They already lost their moral compass and their souls.” You are more generous than I. In order to lose something, you have to have it to begin with.

    • Wow I can’t believe you are bragging about wasing “two years” of every weekend. Just dumb, real dumb!

    • You have been hanging around for 2 years….and still only get table scraps? And you think the wife is the loser? Your onto a real winner there …hang in there snowflake 😀

    • Then why is he still with his wife, skank? [EDITED] When he gets done …He goes home to his wife. Go cry into your pillow, whore. You sound pathetic. Why would she still want him? Why DO YOU want him?? You just want to beat the wife at this sick game. Instead of watching the clock waiting for him to come over get a life.

      • CheatersSuck – I think she wants us to believe she doesn’t WANT a real relationship with her “fuck buddy”. (Wink, wink!). That what these pathetic idiots say to themselves and others when the cheater doesn’t leave his wife for them. Justification.

      • This is a new CheatersSuck. I am the original and I haven’t contributed to this thread nor have I called anyone names.

    • One question: If you only see him every weekend, who is he screwing the other 5 days of the week?

      • I guess like the other OW she believed the lie that he and his wife don’t have sex anymore….I got this from the other woman too when I confronted her and I told her “Darling, you were fucking a MARRIED man…”

        • I told the OW to her face we were still having sex, but she didn’t care. I suspect he may have already told her I’d say something crazy like that but that it wasn’t true. He’s a very good liar. I’m sure she fell for all of it. I told her we had kids and had gone to pastoral counseling for repeated infidelity, too. She just seemed territorial and dim.

          He chose weak, vulnerable, very young girls who were easy to manipulate. They practically worshipped him. He’s very good at lovebombing and made them feel special. His actions were deceptive and downright predatory.

          He seemed to be able to create and maintain a double life quite well. Eventually, when I discovered the extent of his moral corruption, I couldn’t bear to be with such a sociopath and kicked him out. He was not the man I thought he was at all.

          She didn’t have a problem with it and took him right in. Good riddance.

    • Miss Behave – a fuck buddy? For two years? So pathetic. I’ll bet you’re one of those independent sorts who is taking the world by storm! (Snort!). Naw, you’re just as ridiculous as the douchebag you cheat with. You don’t kick ass, however, you deserve a good ass-kicking! Maybe his wife will run into you some day – with a Buick! Sad you can’t seem to find a single man to play with. But then what fun would that be because you wouldn’t be making someone else miserable!?! Who raised you?????

      I’ll bet you a million bucks ol’ Fuck Buddy tells his wife what a whore you are and that you are the desperate one. No? A cheating liar wouldn’t lie to you? Ha! That’s what all side pieces tell themselves. You should have “Welcome” written on your back. I knew one of you reprobates (look it up) would come slithering along this morning. Run along now . . .

    • “But here’s the difference between you and them — they kick ass. In time they do the thing you can’t do — they stand up for themselves. They demand better.”

      If this is the case, then why are you still just a sidepiece after 2 years? I’m not sure if you realize it, but your life as somebody’s proven second choice is in total contradiction with that statement.

    • Miss Behave

      Apparently your head is so far up your ass that you don’t even know how to spell. Good luck with being a sperm receptacle.

    • “Biggest loser in the universe alert!!!”

      Yeah, that would be the woman who thinks throwing away her weekends, her time and years of her own life for a married drool bucket makes her some kind of winner. Ever hear of a lamprey? It’s a sort of fish that attaches itself to another fish and literally sucks the life out of it. That’s you. But what you don’t seem to realize is that your fuckbuddy is another lamprey. Think about it, if you’re capable.

    • Misbehave…. The difference here, he is his wife….she’s supposed to wave it in his face. What you should be asking yourself is why are you with a man who won’t choose you outright…

      I told my ex husband’s OW she could have him, I don’t fight over garbage. Seems like you are fighting over garbage my dear…..

    • Are you for real? Because your rambling reminds me of the Sarah Jessica Parker character in First Wives’ Club.
      I am sad for you that you find happiness in someone’s misery. And sad that you think every other weekend is all that you deserve.
      My sincere advice is to dump your cheater and invest time in yourself. Despite your claims, you are a miserable person. Or a sociopath.
      I feel very very very very sorry for you.

      • Miss Bee Atch-

        Are you serious? I had to re read your post several times to make sure I reading it right.

        You kick ass? Setting aside the need to Kick YOUR ass, let me share with you a small antidote.

        When my X came to see me for the last time, he had armloads of gifts, flowers and CASH. ($5000 to fix my HVAC unit) I saw on his phone where his slag (someone like you)-
        was whining that he did not leave her any cigarettes.

        You are crawling around on the floor for crumbs. Why would you want sloppy seconds? Because that is all you can manage.

        BETTER YET- Why are you on a chump website? Because you know…you will be cheated on as well. You are *actually* bragging about being a lying, dirty NUT RAG.

        Are you on a day pass from the local mental ward? Is your minder on a bathroom break? Where did you learn to read or write? Prison?

        Being someone’s nut rag is no WIN. You are delusional. You are INTER CHANGEABLE. You are like a roll of toilet paper in a Port A John to these men. HE MARRIED HER. Got it? But, whatever gets you though the night, Freak.

        I dont feel sorry for you. You are despicable.

        Now-Go buy a book on basic ethics.

    • Schadenfreude. That’s the word that describes people like Miss Behave.

      A New York Times article in 2002 cited a number of scientific studies of schadenfreude, which it defined as, “delighting in others’ misfortune”. Many such studies are based on social comparison theory, the idea that when people around us have bad luck, we look better to ourselves. Other researchers have found that people with low self-esteem are more likely to feel schadenfreude than are people who have high self-esteem.[32]

      • Lyn, I was reading the other day and made a note to look that word up…no kidding.
        Yes. You nailed it.
        I see no difference in that varmint’s behavior….and me going on a lymphoma support chat and taunting cancer victims.
        No difference.
        Ahhh… The boldness of the anonymous keyboard warrior.
        Not good to poke a wounded animal. She is lucky we are not face to face.
        No kidding.

    • 1. The trolls are hungry today.

      2. Chump Nation, I am disappointed in your name calling. Stop it. You are all fully capable of making your point without stooping to that kind of language.

      • Nope. She got off lucky with a few harsh words.
        Taunting people whose lives were blown up and destroyed?
        A verbal thrashing is a good start.
        As I said…no different than me bullying an HIV positive support group.
        And. If you stand up to trolls hardcore…they usually slouch off back to their sewage den.

        • I dont see why other women come here to gloat. To say the wife is a pathetic loser. I say a pathetic loser is someone who goes after a married guy cause she cant cut it in the single world. But what do i know other than this pod has no peas!

          • Kar Marie…you always speak the TRUTH.

            Lette me at her!!!
            Hold my purse!!!
            Intentional cruelty. I still dont get it.

            • I will never get the intentional cruelty either sylvia. I would never in my life hurt anyone intentionally. But apparently asswipe and his whore do just that. Dont care who they hurt or bully to get what they want. Fuck all of them. I choose to live my life in the sunshine. Let those fuckers live in the dark.

          • They come here to gloat because that is how they beef up their low self-esteem. It makes them feel powerful to tempt a married man. It makes them feel powerful to rile up a bunch of betrayed women.

      • I think freevixen is concerned this post is devolving much like the one that CL had to delete. One OW troll came on the board and as CN attacked her more of them came out of the woodwork and it got ugly real fast.

        Plus if you follow her response it goes way up to a post containing many more names of the not so nice variety. And it looks like it’s from a long time member of CN (namely me).

        It’s been my experience that nothing good ever comes from taking troll bait. It’s not like they learn anything. Best to just ignore them so things don’t get ugly.

        • Agreed. Remember they feed off any attention. She’s probably off somewhere smirking having dropped her stink bomb. Would have been farrr better if she had been ignored but I know some of us can’t resist the bait. Anyhow whether we take the bait or not she remains a rather sad and pathetic person. Not saying it to be nasty but just facts. Sad thing is she won’t see it that way.

        • dag nabbit. did i miss out on some troll trashing? are we calling a whore a cunt or what? i’ll just say that they are never as pretty or as smart as they think they are. and who wants pussy that anyone can have?

      • Free Vixen, agree – this is trolling at its worst. I get the feeling this post is a poorly spelled work of fiction. Let’s not take the bait, folks.

    • Miss Behave. Why would you have such contempt for a woman who has done nothing to you? My guess is that you are bitter because he hasnt dumped her for you. She is still the wife while you are the weekly drive-thru five minute fuck. How sad and pitiful to be nothing but a pit stop. No woman with any self worth would be content to be some married losers blow up doll.

  • CL, I wish there was a way to see you do a mic drop after completing that post. 😀

    Spot on!!!

    I saw the chats from OW — “I can’t wait to lick your cum off the basement floor.”

    Ah yes, the backflips and contortions she performed since his Mean Wife wouldn’t degrade herself or her Vegetti. (Which is actually a vegetable shredding device but sounds more like an *amazingly* beautiful pu$$y to me, hence I’ve bestowed the name on my netherparts.)

    Now every time I think of OW I just imagine her on the basement floor, forced to continue her sad lapping of his cold, wet Ojuice, wondering how the hell she got there and how long she’ll have to pretend to *love* it.

    It makes me laugh every time. Wonder if she still thinks that *I’m* the loser in her pathetic game.

    Bon appétit, slutbucket!

    • Did someone really, actually say that about licking it off the basement floor? That’s the funniest thing I’ve ever heard.

    • Yes, pretending to love giving him blow jobs was part of my initial pick me dance. Imagine his surprise when that particular well dried up. No more bus for you.

  • My STBXH’s OM has a rude awakening coming but it will come slowly. He thinks that after my ex is divorced, he will either choose to be openly gay or at least committed only to OM. He believes this because that is what STBX told him for 30 years and because he is unaware that STBX was also carrying on with other women. Oh the things OM doesn’t know. They are living 800 miles apart right now and travel to see each other once a month until STBX retires in 1 to 4 years. So the infequency keeps the longing and specialness of their arrangement going … it is not until they are actually together that they will see the less romantic, mundane cheater they each ended up with. And I am not convinced my cowardly ex will ever decide to be openly gay, so OM will never really get what he wants. Either way, he loses.

    And that is the outcome for all cheaters and APs that end up together … they lose. Which explains the 85 percent failure rate of such marriages.

    • Man, Dixie, our situations are so similar, only the primary OM in my case is also married and in the closet, and they seem to have cooled things off while X is, most likely, still looking for his next beard. But they used to travel across the country to see each other once a month and continue to believe they have everyone fooled into thinking they are “best buds,” as they like to call themselves.

      Either way, I don’t think my X will ever come out, either. I read an interesting theory about gay men whose narcissism drove them into the closet and encouraged them to drag an unsuspecting woman in with them–that when a narcissist lands on any given image-management script during their youth, in this case, that they are straight men, they have a hard time abandoning it. I would venture to guess that the majority of closeted men who come out in middle age or later after having been married are not full-blown narcissists.

      If this theory is accurate, it’s probably why the old adage, “Once a cheater, always a cheater,” holds true–they land on the script of upstanding, faithful family man/woman, despite being incapable of monogamy, and stay there.

      • Yes, I see definite signs of my ex seeking out a new beard. He is suddenly signed up for mixed doubles tennis which for the last 30 years he has always hated because the game is not competitive enough. So suddenly he wants to play with a female partner? Could it be he is suddenly looking to meet women? Snort. So obvious. Luckily, it doesn’t matter to him whether they are married or not. And yes, at this point in his life, I don’t think he can backtrack from the “I’m Bi not Gay” story he has told himself. Certainly not while his mother is still alive …

        • Dixie, I’ll bet being married was the perfect excuse for him not to commit to his partner. What will he say now? How will the OM react if your STBX marries again? 30 years is a long time just to end up being a side piece.

          You are mighty and an amazing source of strength and encouragement. You deserve the best. I’m sorry about your cheater. They suck.

  • Asswipe thought whore juice was the best thing ever! Thought he would take complete control over her life cause thats what she wanted for him to control her every moment. He did, she jumped and for a few months heaven. Then reality starting setting in. Careful what you wish for bitches. Leopards never change their spots. She didnt like having every moved controled and started taking control back little by little. Stupid asswipe ended up being henpecked. Hahaha! Because of the house and its pending sale he still has to see and talk to me. She hated it. Insanely jealous of me, cause he admitted he still loves me and cates deeply for me. Drove her nuts. Shes thrown him out four times and he cheated on her while they were living together. Who the hell would knowingly want a man still in love with his wife, told her most likely he would cheat cause thats what he does and she can be close with her exes but i need to die! Cause he was told to forget all about me and our history. What an dumb bitch. And ass wipe trades a good loyal patient non confrontational long term patient spouse for what turned out to be a low moral witch. I had to explain to him i dont care how nice she is nice people dont go after other womens husbands. Ergo shes a skank. Cheaters deserve their own country where they can brag and gloat and then start doing it to each other.

    • “Bitch, please!” Love it, Chump Lady.

      OW as feminists. Uh oh, you used the “f” word, CL. Match Girl admitted to me she was banging a post-doc in her lab the year before I met her. His wife came up to school one day and confronted MG. Later that day he said he’d left his wife to be with MG. MG was furious. “Why the fuck did you do that? Call her up right now and tell her you’re sorry. Tell her you’ll be right home, and you were acting crazy. Now go. I’ll fuck you tomorrow.”

      It’s easier to be an OW than an OM.

    • My ex’s OW had the nerve to tell me to “make him happy”. I saw red when I heard that and then I proceeded to tell her she was nothing more than my husband’s cum dump. These slimey bitches act like they’re “better” than the wife. That’s actually how they think. When in reality they are just thirsty hoes that can’t get an available man. Desperate is the perfect word to describe them.

  • HaHaHaHa! ChumpLady you BURNED those loser OW. I have thought those thoughts many times, back in the day when he was all about her, and when I gave a shit! I wish you could have observed (from afar) the OW across the street from my home. She really should be put in a zoo exhibit! “Putanus Supinus”- speciman collected sashaying down the sidewalk wearing teenage girl clothing, her natural habitat! She is a real smug piece of work, pretending to care about the fringes of society, and HELPING those around her.
    What I really hate, is these freaks acting like the spouse is corny, or out-dated. Where does that come from? We are the ones that actually care, and commit. Her? As soon as I made him available, and he moved in with her, she was not going to have her freedom squelched! She put up with him for a while, but I heard he got served papers to vacate this month. Pathetic people, I mean Pods.
    No, you are not enlightening the world, OW/OM, and you are not irresistible. You are just the one who bought the lies.

  • It seems to me the whole attitude thing comes down to how you really feel about yourself. If you have positive self esteem, you choose to do what you choose to do to please yourself. Not to “seduce” or “fool” another person. Not to make someone else feel bad, or inferior. Just because you have values and character and goals of your own to achieve.

    As a caveat, I must remind myself that although my mother raised me to believe I could accomplish my goals, I was trained by that same mother in the ways of a codependent culture. I was trained to put my goals second to my spouse and my children. It took a good bit of education and therapy for me to realize that if I wasn’t happy with myself that I couldn’t expect others to be happy with me either. I had to learn that I could only fix myself, and possibly guide my children when they were very young.

    I could not fix all the things that were wrong with my spouse. I would not reduce myself to say or do all the things willing other women would say and or do to my husband. I was not going to lie to him to make him feel better about things he did not do well — like sex, or remaining faithful, or fulfilling his responsibilities. He was certainly not a Sex God, or a wonderful man. He was an opportunistic cheater, always looking for a soft place to land, always looking for a way to convince others to do things for him. He wanted to believe the ridiculous things other women would say to him, he wanted life to be a party that someone else hosted so that he didn’t have to do any of the work, pay any of the bills, or clean up any of the mess. That was really who he was. I am sure I was an excellent party planner for awhile, but I grew tired of doing all the work, and watching him slip off for yet another interlude with some bimbo who thought she would look good as the hostess in charge. The reality of seeing him snoring off a hangover in his not so tidy whites, finding his socks in the living room floor, listening to him belch and fart as he rambled through the house like a brain damaged bear, slurping his soup and chewing with his mouth open took what little romance we had away. Sorry, but I expect a man to be capable of grooming himself, and if he wants to go out with me to do some planning and preparation for the date. I need more foreplay than an inquiry like “Hey, got a minute?”

    Women who can only make themselves feel superior by putting other women down are really terribly unhappy people. They know they are putting up a façade — one which they cannot possibly live up to over a long period of time. They generally are motivated by some anticipation of material gain. They are very good at flattery, and are willing to debase themselves in order to seduce willing fools to “commit” to them. They are not reflective enough to realize that if he chooses to cheat with them he will also cheat on them. They have to tell themselves the wife is frigid or hateful or slothful, or a combination of unpleasant things in order to justify their willingness to be with someone else’s husband. They think that the seduction is just some type of audition — and they will be able to stop doing many of the unpleasant things once they “reel him in.” They don’t think about how unpleasant a big stupid fish smells after it has been reeled in and sits out in the sun for awhile. They will find his domestic habits just as unpleasant as his wife did — it is only a matter of time. Meanwhile big fish will wonder where that adulating bait disappeared to. “Why do I have this big ass hook in my mouth?” Well, duh.

    I don’t take a shower, wash my hair, brush my teeth, shave my legs, put on make-up or clean clothes to make anyone happy but me. I like feeling the way I feel when I have made an effort to groom myself up to my own standards. I don’t pick out a wardrobe suited to seducing someone on a street corner when I buy clothes. I don’t attend activities I don’t like or feign interest in things I am not interested in to “meet a man.” Life is too short and time too limited to spend a moment of it wasted on a worthless man or a conniving woman. Choose your friends because you have something in common with them, and because they have values — whether they are male or female. If I am attracted to someone, I know how to flirt without being salacious. I am looking for friends who have as much respect for themselves as I do for myself.

    If anyone wants to live differently, I can give you an address for a tawdry house party at my Ex’s address. His HO of the MOMENT is the hostess. Right. Good times.

    • Love your post Portia! So very true. Thanks for posting! My favorite part of discard was being blamed for my cheaters unhappiness. Five years out well my my, he’s a very unhappy person. I would say even more unhappy. Hmm those women didn’t make him happy. As for me, life is so much better cheater free!

  • The condescension is 100% insecurity and immaturity.

    I truly feel sorry for the OW/OM out there — because they are better spacklers than chumps and don’t know it. Many of them really believe the web of lies they are fed. I am curious what XH told OW#2 that made it easy for her attend dinner parties at my home and be a guest on the weekends at the cabin — where I often sat beside her.

    IMO anyone who intentionally lies, does whatever the f*ck they want, breaks promises and acts like an entitled spoiled child is not sexy

    • +1
      I love this! It is NOT sexy.What makes us cheer or love a character in a story?
      Bravery. Honesty. Sacrifice. Ethics.
      Anything done underground…sneaky….furtive…like rats scramling in a ditch…no one applauds a lying cheater. No one wants them as a character in THEIR life story.

  • “You feed on the carrion of a dead marriage.”

    Boy does that sum it up. Mr. Sparkles OW “thought” my marriage was already over when they met (even though we were still living together and neither me or my child/stepchildren KNEW it was over.)

    So, I got the self-righteous “I’m not the OW”… I’m his girlfriend.

    Who cares that Mr. Sparkles was:

    1. Married
    2. On his family vacation and calling/texting her
    3. Was triangulating with great charm and finesse in the “early dating days”
    4. Refusing to acknowledge service of divorce papers for almost TWO MONTHS
    5. Refusing to respond to divorce complaint until the day of the Default Hearing
    6. Not introducing her to his adult children
    7. Parasitically attaching himself to HER LIFE (he had no life to offer her inclusion in)

    Ironically, they have now “broken up”. Unfortunately for her, she’ll still be subpoenaed for the trial and to respond to the adultery for a relationship she no longer has.

    Yup, she won.

    I’d rather be single and raise my son to be an amazing man than EVER be in a marriage like the one that I’m ending now. ANY. DAY.

    Rock on Chump Nation.

    • “Mr. Sparkles OW “thought” my marriage was already over”

      She thought it was over, prolly because Mr. Sparkles fed her that information. It’s likely he told her he had a horrible marriage and how things were over between you two. And being the brainless moron the OW is, she bought it hook, line and sinker. And it’s awesome they have now broken up! Ah ha ha ha! And she’ll have to testify for adultery. Sux to be her!

      • So she bought into the big lie! That his marriage was already over. I just love that one. These OW do know that it is easy enough to check out this kind of information nowadays don’t they? Oh yeah, they are too dumb or lazy to do so. And as for the OW post that was “bragging” about her whole “two year” love affair I think she needs to know that most affairs wither and die around two to two and a half years!

        Good news is: I’m pretty sure I’ve reached the outskirts on “Meh Land” and it’s wonderful! The entertainment value affords me lots of laughs when I read an OW whining about her sad fate! They are so dumb it just kills me! Giggle, Snort!

      • My ex told his OW that we didn’t have sex anymore because I had a medical condition and couldn’t have intercourse. So she felt free to step into that void and look after his needs because he was a sad and deprived sausage. He neglected to tell her it was a temporary condition called high-risk pregnancy.

        No OW will believe that she is being lied to and manipulated just as much as the wife is. But they all are.

        That was one of the things about the whole situation that made me saddest of all, at first. He thought this OW was so awesome he was willing to destroy his marriage to be with her, but she still wasn’t worth any honesty.

        • Well said. Had a friend her child’s father told her he and his wife didn’t have sex…yet she and the wife ended up pregnant at the same time.

          • I’m sure these losers must tell the APs a boat load of lies (which doesn’t absolve the APs from good judgment in sleeping with married people). Mine never stopped having sex with me 2-4 times per week through all of his affairs; he knew I didn’t consider him trustworthy and it would have been a huge red flag if over-sexed Hannibal had suddenly showing less interest in sex. Thank goodness all my STD tests came back negative.

  • CL you hit the nail on the head with this post. If the OW had to compete on the open field with most chumps, they would LOSE! That why they have to do it the cowards way.

    No matter how much they try to convince themselves they are superior, in the end they are twice as insecure and damaged as we are. They believe the lie that the only person he is lying to is the wife (or husband)… Cheaters lie to EVERYONE! And if they finally “win”, they have to keep it on a short leash, cause they know what the mangy dog is capable of….God knows I’m actually feeling sorry for the OW in my case. My ex cannot form s sentence without lying, so she will be playing marriage police forever….Good riddance to bad rubbish!

  • “Do you want him back?”
    This from the OWife about 5 years into her marriage to my X, when she shared with me she was trying to get him to move out and divorce so she could have her house back. (Or rather, so her enabler mother could have her house back).
    I smiled sweetly and shook my head and said, “No, he’s all yours.”

  • And don’t forget this article is fully applicable to married OW too. I know. My cheater was one, and this article describes her (as an OW) to a T

  • My cheater once told me about this “ugly skank” he was “fu#$ing” before we met. I asked him “If she was such an ugly skank, why would you date her?” He explained that men need sex, and “Pussy is pussy.”
    There is nothing special about OW, except that they are WILLING and not particular. If he is dropping by for sex but is not willing to marry you, you are “pussy” and nothing more.

  • I swear, these OW should not feel so privileged that they’re with a Cheater. And should not feel any kind of animosity towards the Chump. They are stupid if they think they are special, because they wound up with someone who can’t keep it in his pants. Chances are, the Cheater will do the same to them, he did to his own wife. And one day the OW will be exactly in the Chump’s shoes. For the life of me, I can’t understand how these OW buy the Cheater’s garbage! They think they are immune from the Cheater’s behaviors?! The more I think about it, the more I realize these OW must be so incredibly dumb with the IQ of a fruit fly. And instead of getting angry at the Chump, they should be inquiring how the Cheater treated the wife during the marriage, because that is the same fate that awaits them, and likely worse!

    And they have no idea how the Cheater sees the OW. In the Cheater’s eyes, the OW is likely just a warm place to put it and nothing else. So the OW should not get any ideas that she is worthier than the Wife and is competing with her. Chances are, she’s being used, just like the wife was.

    • You must see how incredible good liars and manipulators these cheaters are. When the OW is just a naive warm place.
      But when both, cheater and OW are married…that’s a whole different level of fuckedupnes.

      • Yeah let me address that one head on because that is what happened to me. I ended up telling the OMs wife that he was sleeping with my wife. She is divorcing him now and seems to be doing better then ever, her and I have actually become good friends, and even went on a group vacation together. The two cheaters are together now and working to make everyone believe that they “just started” “dating”, however people know the truth. I will say I am also floored by the fact that two gross cheaters can be together… sooooo gross. But they must both believe that they are that “Special” heads up the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. If my wife could lie and cheat to me and this 47 year old scumbag could cheat lie and abandon his wife and your daughter they yeah… I am sure that my XWs panties are that magical. Oh wait I actually know the answer to that one, they are not.

  • Whoa, CL, epic takedown!! Fist pump and rocket launchers from me. My favorites:

    “You are not enlightened. You are not part of the universal sisterhood. You aren’t a credit to our gender. You’re a throwback to an unenlightened age where men are this Valuable Resource without whom we have no economic or social status.”

    If you’re so all powerful and irresistible, what are you doing on a hook up site? Why are you poaching from the Taken pool?”

    OW are just as delusional and damaged and selfish as the cheater themselves. Oh, you have FOO issues that drove you to it? Right, well hear some of the chumps’ childhood stories and realize that trauma in your formative years doesn’t mean you need to become a dishonest, immoral, condescending subhuman. You, too, have a CHOICE. Will you use your FOO issues for good, or for evil?

    Merely in virtue of being an OW or OM, you have less class than a single chump has in a fingernail. In this day and age, anyone who buys the “my husband/wife doesn’t understand me” BS is dumber than a 5th grader. ANd I have a bridge in NYC to sell you….

    • “anyone who buys the “my husband/wife doesn’t understand me” BS is dumber than a 5th grader.”

      You know, I had just started at my former job, and the first week, one of my coworker comes into my office and blurts out how his wife of 25 years doesn’t understand him and how he doesn’t have a good marriage. My face dropped and my expression became stone cold. I raised my hand right in front of his face and exclaimed: “Stop! I am really not the person to be saying this to and you should talk to your wife if you have any marital issues. I cannot get involved in your personal life. Sorry.” And looked at him aggressively and dead in his eyes. I was going to be damned if I had yet another married man cry me a freaking sob story. He knew I meant business, because he left my presence very quickly and never ever discussed his marriage with me. Later on, he was caught for being a pedophile and went to jail for 1 year. A 54 year old trying to have sex with a 14 year old. Scumbag…

      • Yeah, you, Kellia!! Too often we let people’s bad behavior slide so as not to be impolite, and your co-worker deserved the tongue-lashing you gave him.

        And picked up for pedophilia, eh? Not that we needed more proof that many cheaters are sick MFers…..

      • He left your presence because he thought you KNOW. Like you know he’s a predator.
        How do you think cheaters get their supply? By being honest and truthful? No, they lie and manipulate. And you caught it from the first phrase. Awesome job!

        In any case, that’s the healthy attitude. Don’t discuss personal issues at work, especially to someone you just met.
        My colleagues don’t know I’m divorcing. It’s personal.

      • Kellia-
        This happened to me as well. My boss came in my office and told me I looked like a school girl.
        He then started venting that his wife used the rocking chair in the bedroom to pile all of her clothes.
        I was not as mighty as you but I did give him the ole crazy eyes and said with coldness:
        Then buy her a wardrobe.
        He later….true story…would continually barge in on my friend when she was using her breast pump. She even put up signs DO NOT ENTER.
        He was undettered…we had to start guarding her door while she frantically used the pump.

    • I corresponded with Dr. Morris and he said that mended not typically fair as well as women did in the same situation. When I questioned further, he said that applied to the male cheaters as well as the men who were cheated on

  • This is a timely article for me. A former friend from high school who has become increasingly narcissistic over the years just self published a book detailing the life of a well paid mistress. I’ve long suspected that she was a mistress/kept woman. She drives a high end car and has way more money to travel than any freelance writer I’ve ever met. She brags incessantly about how she graduated with an English degree and no student loan debt. She’s a fan of the “girl boss’ books and fancies herself quite the entrepreneur. Well, the main character of her not-so-well-written book is a carbon copy of her. She paid her way through college on a married sociopath’s dime. The whole time, she imagines herself as better in bed, etc. than his poor poor wife. At the end, she discloses the affair to the wife by ringing her doorbell and leaving a pile of evidence on her doorstep. See, she used him. She has the power.

    All I could do is shake my head as I was reading thinking, “you poor, deluded idiot.” Of course he NEVER had interesting sex with his wife. Her body was flawed because of having two children, one of which, of course, he really only had under duress. His wife’s ‘strong political views’ were ‘fun’ when the sociopath and her were in college, but became ‘a nusance.’

    I suppose it makes me laugh/cringe when someone so shallow thinks she’s so sophisticated. I could have chosen that life path, fucked for money. I have an awesome body despite having had two kids. Imagine if I”d chosen to make that my source of income. Oh the possibilities… But, I have integrity. And people like her mock integrity. And write shitty books that nobody but her friends and mortified family read. But, she’s a good investor and is well travelled. All on a man’s dime. That’s empowerment for you. **insert eye roll here**

    • What will she do when Father Time comes knocking?
      Blow jobs behind Wal Mart for $20?
      It is not that much of a stretch.☺

    • KT – another possibility for the “non-interesting” sex with the wife? Madonna vs Whore. Lots of screwed up men have a hard time seeing his wife as a sex object once she becomes a mother. Many cheater have very stringent thinking and need a side piece to have the dirty sex with while saving respectful sex for the mother of his children.

  • A good friend and fellow chump told me this, “if your man allows another woman to come between you, they are both doing you a favor. Clearly they share the same shitty values so let them have each other. You deserve better than that.” I wish I’d understood that after learning about the first OW. Oh well, better late than never.

    Truthfully, I really don’t understand women who target married men. I mean, if it is for just sex, then the shallowness of the relationship makes sense. But for those thinking they are winning a loving and stable partner for a long-term relationship?

    With OW #2, she was engaged, so how was that relationship going to be with my ex if they ended up together? They were both established cheaters. I picture their fucked up coupling as something like this:

    Hey honey, how was your day?

    Great, how was yours?

    Why are you late for dinner?

    Um, no reason.

    Yeah, okay, let me see your phone.

    Let me see yours first.

    Why? Don’t you trust me?

    Don’t you trust ME???

    Yeah, no thanks. I’d rather live alone the rest of my life than play “Who’s the Biggest Liar.”

  • Over 30 years ago, I was an OW, following the end of an abusive marriage. My head was in a bad place, and I never wanted to be married again. I never wanted him to leave his wife, and we never had conversations about her. It was so, so wrong and in many ways being on the receiving end is my karma bus. I don’t understand the venom directed at betrayed spouses by the AP’s. Even more, I don’t understand taking pleasure in another person’s pain. I ended it because it was wrong. I was a whore, and its something I am not proud of. I would have been mortified had anyone ever found out. He was my dirty secret, and I was his dirty secret. That’s no way to live. I am amazed at the self-righteous of self-proclaimed sinners.

    • I admire your honesty. When I was in my 20s, I delighted in any man’s attention, married or not. I also did not have the sense of a billy goat. Looking back now, I just cringe at my behavior.
      Sometimes, when I cant sleep…and I am not engaging in homicidal ideation toward my X and his harem….I dream of an exact point in my life where I can start over…with all this sad knowledge I have now. But…that is a fantasy.
      I know that being in an abusive relationship actually changes your brain. It makes us frantic and desperate.

    • The difference between anyone that was an OW and THOSE OW is you have all realized the error of your ways and changed yourselves for the better! You had the ability to look at yourselves and realize what you had done was not right.

      When I started my marriage (that has conveniently blown the fuck up in my face!) I had a long term BF from high school. I met my STBX online back in the 00’s when I was still a teenager. We chatted for years before we met (he is from the UK and I’m from California) and it was an emotional affair. We kissed and got physical (no sex, I was a virgin and waiting at the time) while I strung my high school boyfriend along because I wasn’t sure what I really wanted and my STBX was from halfway across the world. I ended up breaking it off with the poor HS BF and waiting for my STBX to move here to be with me. And now I guess I’ve gotten exactly what was coming to me. I will say that once a cheater always a cheater isn’t necessarily true. I will NEVER cheat again. I felt guilty but entitled at the time because teenagers are assholes however as an adult and abandoned CHUMP there is nothing more painful than this feeling and when I was married to my STBX men became basically invisible to me. I still actually feel physically ill when I think about having to find someone new and be physical with them because I was so devoted to my STBX I never thought of anyone else that way other than maybe a celebrity and even then the idea of actually BEING with them totally turned me off.

      It fucking kills me to think the whoremat is someone more special to STBX than I am. I have been replaced by a damaged stranger that STBX thinks is better than I am that she’s somehow what he wants more than I am. I KNOW she is not better than I am. She is damaged. She lets men walk ALL OVER HER. Her own mother told her she wasn’t worth anything, and that she should do anything to keep a good man, her own ex fiancé raped her and left her with a child, she’s been bankrupted and had her 401k stolen by exes and her alcoholic STBX hit her. I am smart and funny and pretty and loyal and love with my entire heart. I am good and worthy and she is damaged trash. It hurts that he won’t fight for me. That he doesn’t even care. If he says he doesn’t expect to be happy again even though he’s “looking for happiness” and that he knows he will never find someone like me again then why?!

  • Holly Molly, No 3 and the rest is written for the OW, the prostitute my sucker of a husband is living with.
    The competition she was trying to “win”? She got to wash the diapers of my son! And didn’t do a good job! How’s that for sexy?
    He is in debt up to his ears, alimony, less than half for the property, prenup contract, “his” car is actually mine – Surprise, surprise, bitch!
    And no more money from the chump to buy her groceries! They are on their own.
    Oh, wait, now that the cat is out of the bag about how she is babysitting husbands, her income shrinked.
    Although they live together, he hides her EXACTLY like a dirty secret. His friends travelled abroad to visit him. He must have hidden her in the closet.

    What do I care? I’ve got it going: custody, property, new job, travelled abroad, younger guys show interest in me, guys without baggage, like a wife or kids.
    Who’s the crazy bitch, now?

  • I just wanted to chime in here, with what may be an unpopular point of view. I apologize in advance if my words/thoughts about my experiences offend anyone. As I have said on this board before, I was once unknowingly the OW, albeit for a few short months. I was also chumped in my marriage, which is why I visit this board every day and occasionally post. Ain’t that a kick in the pants!

    Before I had any perspective as the betrayed partner, I was the duped OW. Long story short, I met a guy who lived in another city, but came to my city each week for work. Once I discovered he was married in the most serendipitous manner (thank you Universe), the truth started to trickle out, and it was really ugly. He had given me a fake last name, was using a pay-as-you-go phone that he pretended was a work phone, and actually did not live in the city he claimed to live in, but lived in the suburbs with his wife and kids. Were there a few things that gave me pause when I dated him regarding his availability? Sure, but it was new, long-distance, and I was trusting and believed that he was just super busy sometimes and didn’t use social media. Obviously, the relationship wasn’t going to be long for the world anyway, because I had already started questioning him by the time I discovered he was married, but I digress.

    I fell really hard for him. I was absolutely shocked and devastated when I found out that he was married. It took me YEARS to get over it, because in my worldview, most people were good, and I had never been exposed to someone that would create such an elaborate hoax to dupe someone else. I was dumbfounded, and my innocence was destroyed. You would think that I would have fixed my picker asap, but it took my crazy, cheating ex-husband to force me to face that…

    I know my case was one where I was duped, and I was horrified for his wife and myself when I found out. I was still technically “the OW” though, and he was still a cheating POS. However, I am not a loose, loser-ish, pathetic, desperate woman that would consider dating a married man. I think that he actually liked that I was accomplished, attractive (so I have been told), kind and loyal. I think he got off on having someone fall for him that was moral and gracious. I think it gave him more of a thrill.

    I know quite a few women that have been “catfished”. It is surprisingly common unfortunately. The dating pool, especially in major cities with tons of educated women, is brutal. I think a lot of people are lonely, so they ignore red flags sometimes, just like many of us did with the partners that betrayed us. The women I know that were unknowingly OW are not gross, pathetic, jerks. They are smart, attractive, funny and great catches. The men that do this kind of thing are EXPERT predators. They can make even the most sane person doubt themselves, as we all know.

    That being said, when I found psycho-predators wife on social media, I contacted her to warn her about what her jack%$# husband had been up to. I had friends that warned me not to, because they thought he may go nuts. I was scared, but I contacted her anyway. She thanked me profusely and actually apologized for his behavior, but she stayed with him.

    Personally, I don’t think that this man loved his wife. In fact, when he was caught, he repeatedly stated that he didn’t, much to my confusion. You would think he would have tried to act remorseful, so I would be less inclined to expose him, but he was disordered, so who knows! Clearly, he wasn’t looking to replace his wife, but I don’t think that means he was sticking by her because he was so dedicated to her and felt like he was slumming it was a loser like me!

    I don’t think people that cheat on their spouses love them at all. I don’t think they love the OW or OM at all either. I think they love only themselves. As much as I can’t with condescending, bragging OW or OM, I think the hard truth for us to accept is that our spouses didn’t love us either. Just because they would stay and cheat, and not leave for the OW or OM doesn’t have anything to do with loving us or them. They do what is convenient for them. My ex also tried to tell me that the OW meant nothing, she was just a whore, blah blah. If that was true, then why would he risk something he allegedly valued so much for trash? He wouldn’t have. They don’t value anyone but themselves. Plain and simple.

    It definitely didn’t make me feel better to think the woman my ex cheated on me with was a “whore” to him. It actually made me feel worse that he would think so little of me that he would risk what we had for someone so bereft of morals. I absolutely don’t feel bad for OW/OM that knowingly enter into a relationship with a married person, but I have to say that it also makes me cringe to hear women being referred to as being used, whores, just a hole, etc. I understand people are rightfully angry, but all of my anger was directed at my spouse on D-Day. He was 100% responsible for wrecking our marriage. I absolutely understand that this is supposed to be a safe place to vent, but I don’t like reducing women to whores, skanks, etc., no matter what they did. It reeks of misogyny to me.

    Please don’t shoot me for what I said above. :/

    • Blerg–I think everyone here believes that a duped OW is not the same as a willing OW; if you did not know that a man (or woman) was married, that makes a world of difference to whether you violated principles of the social contract, a girl/guy code, etc.

      And I agree with you that cheaters can’t “love” anyone but themselves (else they couldn’t do to their spouses what they do). Chumps are appliances to most cheaters.

      And while this column is about OWs, I think the same derogatory terms apply to knowing OMs. In addition, many knowing-OWs and OMs are indeed, condescending toward the duped (chumps). So not only did they choose to be immoral, and to try to victimize another person, but then they are arrogant about it! Talk about adding insult to injury. So, I’m sorry, but I do think that makes the person a skank, a manslut, whatever derogatory term applies to people who have no morals or standards in the sexual realm. We’re not talking about people delighting in sexuality in an open, honest, way (then, IMO, it doesn’t matter how many people you sleep with in a lifetime if the encounters are aboveboard and don’t involve deception). We are talking about people trying to get one over on someone else. And those people suck.

      If you read everyday, then you know how downright cruel some of these OW/OM can be. While this 8/31/16 CL column is on sickness of cheaters, there are plenty of examples of collusion by OW/OM to engage in appalling behavior, and to further victimize people they have already victimized:

      I will save my sympathy for neglected farm animals, children in the sex trade, and chumps.

      • Perfectly stated. Brilliant.

        Blerg, you arent taunting people and being cruel. You were conned and duped.
        That is a world away from rubbing your hands in glee as you sock it to a person who believes everything is rock solid with their partner.
        And then bragging about it.

        (Lacing up my boxing gloves….where are my brass knuckles…..Num chucks….check)
        Just kidding.

    • Blerg, you’ve seen both sides.
      You say you’ve been duped, it can happen to anyone. It’s what you did once you found out he was married. I actually think it’s brave you let the wife know. But do not judge her for her choices.

      In my case, the OW knew very well he’s married. He was paying her. And he also hired her to babysit our child. Now that’s fucked up! You cannot fathom the level of mockery these 2 brought upon me. It takes Hate.
      These POS deserve an OMEGA hot spot in Hell!
      You say these bastards don’t love the spouse nor OW/OM. I say they HATE the spouse, the kids, the home, with passion! HATE! They cannot stand the idea of being tied down, being responsible.

      • Enraged-absolutely it can happen to anyone! It happens to so many people. Oh good God. Your ex is a extremely depraved and twisted. That is awful, despicable and disgusting. I am so sorry you had to endure that. I agree with the hate. I think they hate everyone, but themselves. They have disdain for anyone they can dupe.

        I was probably one of the “luckier” ones when it came to my husband, b/c he was a cliche ex-girlfriend cheater. I had never met her. The only reason I found out, is because someone kept texting him late one night when we were at a wedding. He was passed out in the hotel room from drinking, but I couldn’t fall asleep. Of course her name was listed under a man’s name, but it was way too many “Are you there, what are you doing, call me” texts, and something felt off. I grabbed the phone, called the number, and lo and behold a woman answered. Dummies-both of them. It all came crashing down after that. After working so hard to trust again, I knew I could never forgive him for what he did.

        • Lol, they are so *clever* using the hide the whore under a man’s name. Mine did that, I had gotten suspicious he was cheating again, so I looked at his phone. There were calls all the time to a man I’d never heard of. Then he changed the last name, so I knew something was up. And a reverse phone lookup lead me straight to the whore’s name, address, etc.

          • I mean I don’t know which is worse Anita-the crazy that duped me having a pay-as-you-go phone, or that my idiot ex husband was too lazy or dumb to hide it better. I thought the pay-as-you-go guy was a serial cheater, because that seems like a heck of a lot of planning, but maybe he was just smarter…

            • more experienced…which means he had honed his deceiving skills to an art form. True predator! I think a rapist is more honest than these types! Or maybe I just have an obsession: cannot stand liars!

      • Years ago, before I knew I was a chump, I had a conversation with a marriage counselor. Cases of adultery always made me sad so I asked her, “Why do people do it?”
        She said that in most of her cases the spouse who cheats is JEALOUS of their spouse!

        • This! I’ve always believed this about my x as well. My parents were loving, kind and affectionate to us and each other. My siblings just ordinary decent people. Later as the marriage progressed secrets about x’s screwed up family began to leak out as well as his jealousy towards me and my family. I never understood why. We don’t choose our parents or siblings, but we can choose to be decent people.

    • Blerg – when someone is unknowingly the OW (I know that can happen), what she does after the truth is made known to her is very telling. If she sends the cheater packing immediately, then she is a woman of character. If she starts with the excuses of “but I love him now” and keeps seeing him, then you know you’re dealing with a garden variety whore. People with character don’t knowingly cause pain to other innocent woman and children because they are in pain – they suck it up and do the right thing. I don’t think anyone on this blog would think of you as being used or a whore unless you continued a relationship with the cheater.

      I don’t think cheaters love anyone the way normal people do, but I do think that in their minds, in their limited ways, they do “love” their wives. They way they love, though, doesn’t get in the way of their entitled mind set or steer their actions. The guy who cheated with you probably just thought you were someone interesting to spend time with when he was away from his wife. They do compartmentalize like that. And they are able to feign real emotions so a woman like you will fall hard for them. It’s like the song, “if you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with”. Sad.

      • Uneffingbelievable – I think you are right regarding their compartmentalizing and ideas about love. I remember sobbing on the floor when I confronted him and saying “How could you hate me so much to do that to me? I barely know you. I have no history with you. What could I possibly have done for you to decide I deserved to be tricked like that” He actually said, “Why would you think I hated you? I enjoyed spending time with you.” I was gobsmacked.

        • Aren’t you lucky, Blerg? He enjoyed spending time with you! It’s all about him. He didn’t even notice you were falling for him. What a complete jerk – you’re well rid of him and dodged a giant bullet.

          • Seriously Uneffingbelievable. How sweet of him, right!

            The confrontation was one of the most bizarre experiences of my life. I honestly could barely keep up, because the stuff coming out of his mouth was so nuts. He vacillated between pity and defiance rapidly. He repeatedly told me he didn’t love her. He never once said he was “sorry”. He said “It wasn’t my fault” though. HAH! He also stated if I told her that I (yes me, not him) would be hurting a nice woman. I had whiplash from his contradictory statements.

            I was enraged and kept saying “Don’t tell me you haven’t done this before.” He said, he had never had an “affair” before, but sure he had kissed other women sometimes. My jaw was on the ground. How he thought this would make me want to tell her less was flabbergasting.

        • BLERG

          The limited dabbled with one nighters and bar whores. He was an opportunist, always. He liked to uo the anti and he fucked whores close to home (single neighbors). They knew he was married. Then it was howorkers who were married as well.
          Then he brought it home to my bed while I was working.

          Finally, it was dating sprees attempting to get someone decent. He was shopping for a replacement. He duped two decent women that I know of. I was the one who contacted HER. The lies he told this poor woman were unbelievable. She was pissed and dumped him immediately.

          One of the things he said to me was that he didn’t want ME to ruin it for him when he found a victim. Yes, there are predators. I was with one for most of my life. I applaude you for telling her. I do not consider anyone who was duped by the sociopath, a whore. They were victims.

          However, knowingly seeking out a married man/child and taunting his wife, the mother of his children lies right down there in the disordered realm of a sociopath. Calling that a whore is an understatement. The idea a cowardly cheating X enjoys, encourages, and witnesses this abuse is disturbing.

          In the end it truly comforts me that he ended up with his equal. None of that washes off. They have that for life.

  • Fellow Empaths,
    I am posting so much because I am waiting for the palliative care vet home visit.

    You know what that sentence means.

    My bones are lead and my eyes are swollen.

    Life is about loss, even with a sweet humble soul who only wanted to please and never was more happy when she was by my side.
    My other dogs are “of the manor born” meaning they have lived with me since 6 weeks, and have had a life wrapped in silk, but this poor girl was in the woods when I coaxed her into my life.
    Her journey is ending. My comfort is I have given her two years of happiness and comfort.

    Sorry for posting so much. Doing this alone. Guess who should be here???

    • Sylvia, my thoughts are with you.

      And I know exactly what you mean. I had a cat that was nearing the end when my ex announced she was leaving me. We had discussed ending my cat’s journey and my ex had cleared it with her son, as he had adopted the cat as his own. Well, then she dropped the bomb of leaving me and asked if I wanted her to take care of the cat since she’d promised her son she’d do so before leaving. I couldn’t believe it! Not only was she destroying our family, but she wanted to put one of my pets down to boot! I refused and can only image the lie she told her son. My cat got a few more months of enjoying the nice autumn weather and I”m a bit ashamed that I was more upset by the absence of the support I had counted on having for the rest of my life than I was by the death of my cat. Granted, the loss of my support was unanticipated, whereas I knew my cat was nearing the end.

      Again, my thoughts are with you as this fresh loss brings the other ones back around for another kick at you.

    • Sylvia, I am an old poster and I have read many of your posts and I let the wise Chumps respond to you. I am very sorry and so sad that this is happening but remember the love you have given. May you find peace dear girl. ((((HUGS))))

    • Oh Sylvia,

      I am so very sorry. As a lifelong pet owner, I know how terrible this day is for you. The only thing I can say to you is that the depth of your pain and grief reflects the depth of your love for this companion. I hope you can soon begin to focus on all the loving, funny memories you have with your special dog. You saved her and gave her a loving home … she has repaid you 1000x over. Big hug to you.


    • Sylvia is Sad-I am so sorry. That is so so heartbreaking, but that bum should not be there. He is not the person you thought he was, and he doesn’t deserve to experience your joy, loss, love, sadness, anger, or any of your other emotions. You are stronger without him!

    • Sorry, Sylvia.

      Be strong for your baby. She wouldn’t want him there. Don’t call him. You are strong. You got this, and your pup is grateful you are there with her to celebrate the journey to the next adventure.

      • Nicely said ian. My fur babies bring me great joy. I feel bad for my older boy he was asswipes dog. He is mine now. Asswipe wants me to leave him when i move. Not a chance over my dead body. Asswipe left him twice really affected the poor old guy. My two pups dont give two shits about him. And neither do i.

    • Oh Sylvia, I’m so sorry. I just went through this a few weeks ago. My little guy was a rescue and I only had him for 4 years. Please take comfort in knowing that you gave your little one a great life. The ones that we rescue have a special meaning to us because they are kind of like Chumps – sometimes abused, betrayed and/or abandoned. I’ve lost dogs before, but this one’s loss has hit me hard. Partly because I adopted him with ex and ex abandoned him (fucker) and partly because I felt his life was a tough one and I wanted to make up for the shitty start to it. Hang in there sweetie. I’m so very sorry. Prayers and hugs to you.

    • Hugs, Sylvia.
      I’m sorry that you have to go through this without any in-person support (but lots of support from CN).
      Please take great comfort and pride in knowing that you gave a needy dog a loving home.
      If it helps, I was a nervous wreck about my last dog’s impending death (cancer), the awfulness and unfairness of it all, and unsure how I would cope (this dog was my baby). I was alone, too (husband deployed in a war zone). One day, after holding my dog and sobbing, he gave me a quizzical look as if to say “what are you bawling about?”. I realized at that moment that, to him, death was the most natural thing in the world…instinctive. This gave me a peace that, until that moment, had been elusive. I held him as he slipped away one morning. I thought it would be the worst day of my life (Uh, no…that would come later…hence my presence here on CN!). While I was sad to see him go, it didn’t feel tragic really…it felt more like triumphant …a pup abandoned on a country road that wouldn’t have had much of a chance…adopted by a newly divorced graduate student… given a life full of fun and love for 10 years and held is my arms as he took his last breath. (I can only hope my own end is so peaceful!).

  • The OW in my situation works with my ex-husband. She knew we were having marriage problems yet she continued to stroke his ego, leave little notes on his desk and tell him that he deserves to be happy. I know it takes two to tango but I’m angry because she did not know the full story. She did not know the abuse I was taking at home and how I was playing the “pick me dance” for over a year. Now, she has left her husband. I guess she feels that she saved my ex from a horrible marriage. Anything to justify what they both did. I hope karma kicks them both in the ass.

    • cricket1114-she is a jerk of the highest order. I mean, seriously, what person inserts themselves into someone’s marriage like that even as a pal? Grown men and women shouldn’t need anyone to boost them up, because their spouse is just such a meanie, and anyone with a lick of sense knows that. COME ON. Ridiculous. I highly doubt she will like it when another woman does the same to her once he starts complaining about her.

    • Cricket–who gives a damn what the OW thinks about you or your marriage? Yes, you were playing the pick-me dance because you value commitment. But if you were tolerating abuse, then the marriage should have ended anyway, for your sake. You are worth more than that. She took a jackass off your hands. I know how painful it is; it’s a wonder any of us live through the 4 months after D-day (and then a wonder that the cheaters live from 4-12 months after D-day).

      I, too, was in an emotionally abusive relationship, and just passed the 2 year post-D-day mark. It doesn’t feel convincing now, but you will (many months out) have days where you think, “If not for the infidelity, I might still be in an emotionally abusive marriage.” We can never be grateful for betrayal, but for some of us, it may have been the only way we could ever live the rest of our lives with peace and integrity.

      • Yes, I agree! I stayed because I believe in marriage and I also have two little kids. I was actually the one that finally left because I couldn’t take it anymore. I’m about 7 months out and I’m already feeling more like myself. She did me a favour……she can have him 🙂

  • What the OW does not know about is the cheaters history. The Limitec had ONE wife he never respected or cherished. He screwed around with multiple women from the beginning.

    His last and most disturbingly grotesque whore got the prize when desperation to prove he could still lead a double life set in. He was dating three women and she was incapable of empathy. She didn’t care. I keep in mind why he chose her in particular. Her life was a mess because she too blamed everyone else for her own actions. The knight in shining armor she prides herself in winning is a serial cheating sociopath. He couldn’t get anyone attractive or intelligent.

    The package she claimed is addicted to porn/child, wets the bed, has a bad back, uses excuses for everything, lies, drinks, smokes weed and never had an adult relationship other than his wife who built his business and supported him in every way. He had independence and rather than develop himself he fucks whatever comes his way.

    The skanky whore was so insecure and believed I wanted him. That was all in her head. Regardless, she attempted to compete even though I filed.

    He is the pathetic one leading on yet another needy unstable clingon who lacks common sense while following HIS magical mystery ride. And what a ride it will be. As classless as she is she believes she is special as they all do. A new object to play with. Egging her on to call me names and make herself feel like she has someone who loves her for once in her life. For me there was a happy ending. Her misery began the day she gave him her phone number.

    Keep that prize honey. You will be supporting the sociopath until you meet #19.

  • The funniest thing about the OW is that she didn’t know that he wanted to invite ME to his 57th birthday at my daughters house in 2014 three weeks after I threw him out. He didn’t file, I did. He didn’t shoe up for the hearing BECAUSE he WANTED me to do the pick me dance and after seeing the whore I knew he would be stuck with it.

    He attempted to hug me at his aunts funeral and sat at my table! He attempted to speak to me and I ignored him. After the settlement was signed he was SAD and told me he thought about me ALL the time.

    This is a very sick man who wanted and expected me to stay with him. I.HAD.ENOUGH. I am so relieved I never have to put up with him picking up women while I was with him. OW, you aren’t the exception, you are the rule.

  • This is off topic…sorta…

    Love Fraud is doing a survey that those of us over 50 can complete, thereby helping to further public education and awareness of these abusive disordered assholes… 😀

    …Tracy, if it is ok I will post the link.

    I await your reply.

    • Jeep,

      I missed seeing your posts and hope everything is going well. I’ve been thinking about you and glad to see you’re safe.

      • ANNIE 😀 IAN 😀

        Beau and I are doing great!!!! YA! 😀

        I’ve been playin in the dirt – my garden – and enjoying the sunshine and my cheater free life!!!! My kids got me a 3-D kite and as soon as the local farmers take the crops off their fields around my yard we are gonn go fly it! Should be awesome!

        I’ve been canning and rockin out and enjoyin it! I hope all of you have too!

        Don’t let that Miss Behave person bother you! There is not a thing to be curious about there. Remember, these disordered types love the attention and live for the drama and chaos! Don’t feed the beast and keep your hands out of the cage! Turn instead to the sweet sunshine of the deep joy reflected in the soulful smiles of those around us that can actually feel empathy and compassion for others! Much more satisfying! Those kinds never play fair and then they take their ball and go home!

        I am so happy to see all of you are doing so much better! WE got this!!!! Woooohooooo!!!!!!

        • Jeep Tess, you are so right. These ow are certainly nothing to be curious about. Other than why they want these cheating losers, that is.

          I wasn’t “lovestruck” by the ex, to begin with. But i wasn’t looking to be, so a calm mature relationship was what I was needing. I thought he was a decent enough person that I was willing to put up with his less desirable qualities. Then he turned out to be a damn cheater.

          When we were in Reconciliation, I went through some sort of “limerence” stage, where I really thought I wanted to be with him. I was “lovestruck”. But that only lasts so long. After that passed , I was left with a lying cheater who really wasn’t special that I didn’t even like. Every irritating thing about him was just magnified by the lying cheater thing.

          Yet, these ow go into a relationship with a known lying cheater. I would have dumped his ass on the first date if I’d known that. Creeper. Ow can have him, who wants him? I don’t.

          • Amen Anita!

            …I just handed his hat to a Now Finally Confessed playboy…face palm!

            …after all I have been through with satan one would think I would finally began to listen to my intuition! NOPE! Had to get a refresher course!

            Limerence is real, yes ma’am! This one was also a damn cheater. Jumped into my life with the intention of I THOUGHT CAUSE HE SAID he was just being helpful to me. Tried to help me understand what ‘men are all about and how they operate’…hiding in plain sight this one. (beating my head on the keyboard – why, why, WHY!) The narc cycle with this one evolved quickly THANKFULLY…when the apparent discard phase stepped up I stetpped back and asked the questions again that were my concerns in the beginning of whatever this was… Long story short, playboy said, ‘I guess if I liked arguing I would still be married.’ (apparently questions are arguments?) …and ‘I didn’t mean for you to get hurt.’ Threw all the blame on me and left me reeling. …hard to believe some go round preying on broken people just to get a…a what I wonder?…nother notch on their belt…nother conquest…? Ugh…bitch please is right!

            I was just out there smiling and breathing for the first time in 5 or 6 years. Starting to actually feel joy again and believing that life is really REALLY good sans the dead weight of satan and his drama and pain…and this asshole steps up and gut punches me. Asshole playboy…cowardly little man.

            Trusting was already very hard for me…now it is gonna be a j-o-b! But I AM MIGHTY AND I WALKED AWAY FOREVER from that cowardly juvenile 😀 And, yes folks, WAIT FOR IT…he WANTS TO BE FRIENDS!!! ROFLMAO! Yeah playboy, that’ll happen! HOLD YOUR BREATH ASSHAT! 😀

            Be vigilant Chumps! They walk among us posing as empathic, compassionate NEIGHBORS…they are all around us just waiting to pounce.

            …God Bless Tempest…she 2 x 4’d me right before she congratulated me on putting myself out there and being brave enough to step back ;D I loooovvvve you Tempest! I love you Chumplady and Chump Nation!!!! THANK YOU!

            Jeep and Beau

            • Say it ain’t so, Jeep.

              You found *another* cheater? That sucks. It sounds like you didn’t let him drag you down before you gave him his walking papers. Did Beau like him? Must have been pretty quickly obvious what was going on. Is it right to conclude that your picker is better. Well, not quite your picker yet, but your cheater radar, or cheate-dar? Did he say he was going to be dating other people? Sounds like the sex was good. You go, girl. Did he say he loved you first and within, like six months? If so that’s a huge red-flag no no. Sounds like he wanted some lovin’ but wasn’t man enough to ask for it. He’s not worth the ants under your boots.

              Did Satan stop driving by? I’m still not divorced yet, but not for lack of trying.

              Watch out for those cheaters and give Beau a scratch for me.

              • Ian you crack me up! THANK YOU!

                …sigh…yes, I found another one…cringe…can you believe it? I can’t. Still can’t. Tryin to stop second guessing myself. All the signs were there, love bombing, then the distancing started, and hoovering when I would attempt to set my boundaries. I even told him when the whole thing started moving beyond the ‘just neighbors’ thing, ‘Please don’t be someone else I have to fight to survive.’ …and he assured me he was not satan. …yeah…right. While he didn’t rage like satan, he still gaslighted and blame shifted. Yea. Never said I love you but proclaimed he had looked for me his whole life and felt that we were soulmates…huh…more like false twin flame!

                I just can’t understand, other than perhaps I was easy prey, why anyone would want to live what life they have goin round hurting others, using others. Wow huh!

                Nope, he isn’t worth the ants under my boots.

                Yes, I think my narcdar is right on. Good for me, but, wow, it still sucks I let it go that far. I am hurting but nothing at all like I suffered satan.

                God Bless you Ian, your turn to be free is comin! 😀 match girl is gonna regret that day I am certain!

            • Ah jeep so sorry it happened again. These fucking pods are everywhere! I hear you about trust asswipe only guy i ever trusted ever. Wont ever trust again no no not me. Missed you girl. We gots to get together some day. Big hugs!

              • Kar marie!!!! 🙂

                Yes PLEASE lets get together! I can’t wait! I missed you too!

                I just find it so hard to believe he targeted me…but, I refuse to be a victim anymore. I walked away. His loss. We are mighty Kar marie and we are worth a loving, respectful relationship. And reciprocity.

                xxoo Love you!

              • His loss is right! We damn well deserve better! So until that day if it ever happens. I remain blissfully single fuck those puto pods just fuck them. I wonder how close you are to me. Florida!

              • Florida is doable! I am in Ohio.

                I recently met via phone / email another woman just out of a long term relationship with a narc / pod, she is in Jacksonville, Florida. We have been talking about a meet up. She is doing better now and able to hold down a job, and FOOD. …ugh…these pods are so awful.

              • 😀

                I talked to her about sharing her contact information with you. I will share my email with you so you two can get together. Hopefully, soon, I will get brave enough to take a road trip! Load Beau up in my Jeep and take off!

                [email protected]

                xxoo Kar marie 😀

  • I recently found about another OW from years ago. I thought there was only one. We’ve been divorced for 3 years and it’s kind of surprising that he cheated more than once. The original (I think) OW fancies herself an independent career woman who doesn’t need a husband but wants to be in a romantic relationship. She’s successful, single, childless, and 45. She says being an OW is perfect. She doesn’t have time for a partner or husband and doesn’t want to break up a marriage. Being someone’s “special treat” is a great compromise.

    I wonder if this is a unique situation? She never wanted him to leave me. She wanted to have him when she had an opening in her schedule. She wanted some fun vacations. That’s it. Weird?

    • Bulls*! There are plenty of career people out there, she could pick from that pool. NOT from the TAKEN one!

      • Exactly! Translation, I’ve wasted my youth living an unbalanced life chasing my career. Now that I’m firmly established in my career at 45, my eggs have dried up along with the pool of eligible single men, so I’ll mate poach. She could just as easily have a boy toy or buy an escort. She’s an ordinary average desperate woman who settles for crumbs.

        • I’m not 45, but upon discovery, I considered the option of paying. At least to get an idea what good sex is all about, right?
          Apparently, is not necessary. I get picked up (in a nice way) by younger guys.
          But toy boys are still an option…of the last resort.
          I’ll NEVER in a million years get involved with an unavailable men, be it married, engaged, with a girlfriend or simply too fucked up to have any relationships.
          Now I’m paying attention to any kind of sign that he is not human.

  • Dear Chump Lady, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! Today’s post has solidified my “MEH” status cempletely. This post is a comprehensive narrative of the fleeting moments of clarity that I have had over the past 8 years since D-Day. This is what I will share with the Switzerland friends who made excuses, the friends of the d-bag who told me I was an inmature Drama Queen for not accepting that the d-bags behavior was just sex and thats what ALL adults do, the Other’s (d-bag did not limit himself to any particular gender. If the person was alive, over 18 [to the best of my knowledge], and had an orifice they would let him stick it into, he did), the former in-laws who told me to forgive him because of his issues he didn’t realize he was behaving inappropriately, and d-bag himself because he told me it was my fault and that I should be ok with his cheating(because I never said it wasn’t ok to cheat). And a current co-worker who is offended when I tell her I am not intrested in her ramblings about her current married boyfriend who only can see her late at night or when his wife leaves town. There is nothing wrong with me for not accepting this crap. My parting shot to all the “OTHERS” out there, if he will do this to me with you, he will do it to you with someone else (and he will because he can). Thank you CL and fellow chumps, you have saved my sanity!

    • Tell the “boyfriend’s” wife.
      Tell when you know and provide some evidence. She can pick it up from there: hire a PI, etc.
      But do tell.
      It’s the loudest signal that cheating is not to be tolerated!

  • Jealous? No, not at all. Paramours have a very short shelf life. Most of them don’t last past two to three years. Then they either find another sucker or run back to their own husbands. Just read the sad sack stories they tell on some of these blogs and look at the “expiration date” on the big love affair. It’s unusual for the newness to last past 36 months and if it does then they are miserable because their lover keeps stringing them along. Always has an “excuse” why they can’t be together just yet or deadlines come and go and they still haven’t even filed for divorce! Usually the wife has no idea of your existence. You are nobody really.

    • Just for context–Roberta was responding to yet another post from our OW Troll (which was deleted).

        • I know, Roberta, so tempting to engage in a battle of wits with trolls who are not armed! (I just wanted everyone to understand that your response was not out of the blue.)

          • Oh crap. I didn’t know there was an anti-troll deleting campaign. I actually do believe Miss Behave is an OW. Hey, Miss Behave. Go to the forums and start a post and fight with us there, unless you’re a coward. (You’re a coward.)