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Chump Lady Answers Her Google Queries

googlethatI did this once before and I figured it bears repeating — today I’m answering the terms and questions people plug into to search engines to find me. There’s some weird shit in those 3 a.m. Google searches of the soul.

the other woman is blocked on my husband phone but still leaves voicemail how

How? With a staggering lack of respect for you, that’s how. Not her. Him. She gets through because he’s okay with her getting through. They’re still in contact. That’s either acceptable to you, or it isn’t. The mechanics of how she leaves voicemail messages is really beside the point.

my husband slept with prostitutes and blames me saying really awful things to me

He blames you for his sleeping with prostitutes? Wow. You have super powers. Concentrate really hard and make him sleep in Nebraska. (I hear the frost comes early this year.) You can’t hear the awful things he says from Nebraska.

serial cheater wife

How about serial cheater EX-wife?

paranoid personality disorder vs cheating spouse how do you know

I don’t know. They both sound pretty dreadful. Whatever flavor of fucked up it is, get away from it.

losing cause i cant win she programed me and used to talk to me in my sleep can she brainwash that way

Sweetheart, the poster above is getting away from you. You’re fucked up.

what to say to the wife of a cheater

I’m sorry? Here’s the name of my ruthless divorce attorney? And my OBGYN for that venereal disease check?

my husband left home @ 7 pm returned home at 10:15 pm was upset because i called his mistress a freak and other choice words

Next time you have another free 3-hour window, pack his shit up and place it on the lawn in garbage bags. Mistress Freak can help him move.

what is he thinking during no contact

Mmm. Hot Pockets!

anthony weiner dick

Why would you put that in a search engine? Why would you put Anthony Weiner’s dick anywhere? Aren’t you grateful Anthony Weiner’s dick is not in the news cycle anymore? Or throbbing next to a sleeping toddler? Or sexting a 15 year old? And is instead under investigation? Anthony Weiner’s dick is a menace that must be stopped.

leaving marriage for affair partner

Good luck with that. I’m sure it will work out splendidly, as it always does for the exceptionally, super special.

do narcissists lies eventually unravel

No, sometimes they metastasize into full-blown presidential campaigns.


Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • This made me think about the time I discovered I was ‘a chump’ just a scant three months ago. I didn’t think of myself as a chump then I was a betrayed wife or a faithful partner. I hit all the usual websites first Ask Suzy, Marriage Builders all the usual reconciliation sites everyone here know so well. It’s interesting that I did see and look at Chump Lady but thought ‘oh that’s harsh – glad my husband isn’t one of those disordered people!’ Yes. I can see you all grinning – knowing where this is going.
    I thought he had one long term emotional affair. I know – my doctor had a struggle suggesting to me (when I went in to see her worried that a recent short bout of depression might reoccur after my discovery) that I might want to consider getting STD testing. Within two weeks I had learned that in the six years he had been working abroad while I (a SAHM) was raising our three boys he had had three long affairs physical and emotional and just yesterday found out that he has also been trawling dating sites for the past four years.
    As I learned more, got angrier, dumped the reconciliation books and websites, I thankfully remembered Chump Lady. Thanks to this site I have found a lawyer, am starting divorce proceedings and read the site every day. I may not trust much anymore but I trust this site. I trust the advice. I trust what Tracy says. I am putting my fingers in my ears and singing ‘lalalalala’ when my heart starts talking and just trust my head and the advice and experiences here.
    Thank you to all of you who have ever posted as I have read every inch of the site. It has stopped me from wasting years of my life. I have fear and uncertainty but I trust you guys when you say it will be ok. You have been my lifeline at the worst time I have ever experienced.
    Chump Lady should come up first for ANY search as the more you see of your own disordered wolf in sheeps clothing, the more you see these ways of being everywhere and can deal with it.
    From the bottom of my heart – thank you.

    • Sending you big hugs Capricorn! Sorry you’re now a member of the club none of us wanted to join… but you are MIGHTY! Glad you’re modeling strength + sanity for your little ones. More hugs from all of Chump Nation!

    • Capricorn, I bow down before your awesomeness. You are off to a great start in your new life.
      I knew about CL early on, but it took way too long for me to open my eyes to my own reality, which, not surprisingly, sounds a lot like yours!

      • I wish Chumplady was around on my first Dday! Maybe I would not have waited so long to get out from under all the fuckupness that I dealt with! But thankfully I on now out from under it! I hope the prick and his howorker live miserably forever! And I also hope that she has to start wiping his ass, when he strokes out, which she said she would do and it would be fun and make her laugh! Wish I would have saved that text message to show them when she is doing it! BTW Louisivlleflower, I am in Louisville too!

    • Sorry you have to be here Capricorn but if you join the club that absolutely no one wants to be a member of, then this is the best place to come for advice that makes sense. I was one of those Amazon chumps. Went to all the RIC websites, read all the books about infidelity I could find and languished in wreckconciliation for three torturous years of my life.

      Chump lady wasn’t around in 2010 when I discovered the ex’s affair but shortly after the third year of faux reconciliation started, someone threw me a lifeline. This site saved my life or I’d probably still be with him; still blaming myself for his shitty choices and still feeling like I was dying a little bit more every day.

      It’s hard, especially in the beginning but I promise you it will get better.

      Jedi hugs your way!

      • I feel the same way. Had I not found this site I would be pick me dancing still…..I’m certain of it.
        It’s like having an AA sponsor. Lol
        I am so good in my new life (almost 2 years out) but every once in a while I find myself regressing, wanting justice, karma, him to have just a moment to FEEL what we felt, or get cheated on , or get herpes, or get in a plane crash ( tee hee hee…)
        I immediately grab my iPad and am reminded why they suck.
        The PTSD from this is loooong. I know I’m mighty, but also grateful for my chumplady life jacket and my chump nation fam.

        • “every once in a while I find myself regressing, wanting justice, karma, him to have just a moment to FEEL what we felt, or get cheated on , or get herpes, or get in a plane crash ( tee hee hee…)”

          Paintwindow, I have been feeling this way for the last week or so, and am also so grateful for my CL/CN life jacket.

          • I could have written this statement myself. Almost 2 years out and so much better emotionally than when the bomb initially hit, but I too still have those bouts of extreme anger and want the karma bus to hit him HARD, and getting in a plane crash wouldn’t be bad either. 😉 hee hee. But, I have to remind myself that even though he’s still with his Ashley Madison mistress (almost 4 years strong) She’s a looney toon and they are made for each other. The grass isn’t greener on the other side. Stay strong ladies. We are so much better off!

            • I don’t wish my ex harm, I actually feel sorry for him. He married his OW which is great Karma. He no longer has me, a great woman, in his life and our three children refuse to have a relationship with his wife. He like so many Narcs has gotten on with his shallow life but we have discovered our lives are so much better without Mr. Self-Absorbed. I am still angry though about many of his sneaky financial decisions as they impact me still. And I still am amazed that people like this exist. Wolf in sheep’s clothing indeed.

              • Not that I’m angry, X is a pathetic, fraud who will never be genuinely happy.
                There will always something to complain about. Everyone knows all new shiny toys eventually get old, loose their sparkle and pale in comparison to the shiny newer models. Old toy has lost it’s luster, upholstery worn thin, takes longer to start, has more than a few dents and dings, the ride isn’t as smooth, headlights don’t have those flashy high beams the new models have. Hey, I deserve it, I work hard, you only live once, old model is worn. I need something new.
                The cycle continues..,

              • Isn’t the best Karma ever when they marry the OP? Even though I wasted three years in faux reconciliation and I was assured that he NEVER had contact with the OW again, it was 4 or 5 months after I left the marital abode that the OW was residing with him and rumor has it, he was married not so long after that.

                Best. Gift. Ever!!! Who deserves a cheater more than another cheater? It almost makes me giddy! I don’t even need to know any details. I know what it was like to live with him for (almost) three decades and that was no walk in the park. Add the cheating and there was nothing good about him. She’s no better. Best wishes for a wonderful life I have to say!

    • This >>>>” I may not trust much anymore but I trust this site. I trust the advice. I trust what Tracy says.”

      Capricorn, I too am sorry for you that you are now a member of the club none of us wanted to join, but welcome and big hugs to you. You are doing great and so much mightier than I did three months post D-Day. 🙂

      • Welcome, great club, shame about the membership criteria.
        Here we are in a safe place and for some it may be the only safe place to talk for a while. I am thankful every day for this site, for the thoughtful, mature and honest discussions and feedback on our issues and relapses that other chumps contribute. Dame Tracy, thank you again for creating this sanctuary.

    • Really sorry to hear your story. It gets happier from this point. You’ve come to the right place you get great advice! Hope things continue to get better!

    • Capricorn, I second everything said above. I don’t know how you found out so much so quickly, but the verdict is in. He’s a selfish, manipulative, cruel excuse for a human being. And I am SO stealing you’re a positive tactic of “putting my fingers in my ears and singing ‘lalalalala’ when my heart starts talking …” I need it for my mind, to stop beating myself up. With that visual, I finally got it in a visceral way. (Okay, five months out, I’m a little slow on the uptake.) Hope you don’t mind. Hugs!

      • How to put “Trust that they suck” and “Don’t untangle the skein of fuckedupedness” into practice:
        – Put your fingers in your ears and sing “lalalala!”

        Excellent advise!!!

    • Capricorn, you WILL be OK! Actually, I predict that you will be 10x better in the future than you are today.

      When I woke up this morning, I realized that today is the 4th anniversary of my ex-husband moving out so he could be with his married coworker. In the last 4 years, I have been on an amazing journey of grief, discovery, exponential personal growth and ultimately, renewal. I am now firmly ensconced in my new life of independence and peace, and am so grateful I didn’t spend the last 20–25 years of my life with a heartless serial cheater! If I knew then what I know now, I would have saved myself the 40 years of trust and devotion I wasted on him and been a lot more selective. The fact that I picked badly is on me, but the fact that he imploded our 4-decade relationship, blew up our family, and danced through life as a first class whore is on him.

      • Sounds like a nice rhyming text if I ever decide to break NC … “You’re a whore and nothing more.” Succinct and satisfying … short and memorable so that it could wander through his mind for quite some time.

      • “The fact that I picked badly is on me…”

        MyRedSandals, please give yourself a break. You were a lot younger then, not wise like you are now. Unfortunately the rose-colored glasses we wear when we’re “in” love affect/obscure the red flags, and those who will eventually cheat on their mates often have Jekyll/Hyde personalities–their charms are part & parcel of their narcissism. Those of us who are trusting types are the ones “picked” by the manipulators.

        Life is for learning, and you have learned well. I admire you for your courage to leave with your pride intact. I also had invested 40+ years with a cheater when DDay came 11 years ago. (Yes, PTSD lasts a LONG time.) The CL site/CN didn’t exist then, and I grudgingly made the decision to stay in the marriage for a variety of reasons, which now don’t seem to matter. As a previous poster describes, I’m still feeling like I’m “dying a little bit more every day”. Continue to hold your head up high.

        • My initial dday was also 11 years ago. I thought he had one emotional affair and learned he was not only a full blown cheater but a serial one at that.

          No CL back then

          • I don’t know why it matters so much to me whether it was one “straying” or a pattern, because it still shows his lack of character. But it does. I wish I knew if my husband’s emotional affair was a one-off. No technology trail about other women, and no other evidence. He won’t talk, and it’s been forever since D-Day. I really miss being a trusting person, too.

            • Effie, I’m tempted to investigate more, to find out the whole “truth.” But then I ask myself, why do I want to sign up for more pain and disillusionment? Don’t I realize that what I already know is more than enough to justify leaving the cheater and living my life? He is out of the house and there is so much peace now. For me, I’m afraid, investigating the cheating further would just be an excuse to focus on him. So instead, I will get my STD test, invoke my post-nup, and wait patiently with no contact until 1 year passes and the State of Virginia allows me to be permanently free of him. When he comes to mind, I will remind myself to be grateful for the peace, and the post-nup, and wish him (the father of my darling children) health and happiness, for their sake and for mine. I am already planning my Caribbean trip/divorce celebration to reward myself for a year of patience and No Contact. I know I won’t be perfect at this, so I will return to this site daily to communally refresh and purge my anger, and draw from your strength and compassion. This is the only way I can see that I will make it to that Caribbean vacation free of him, instead of serving time in prison for malicious wounding.

              • You sound beautifully centered! I hope you get the very peace you’re seeking. It sounds like you’re aiming straight and true for it. As for me, my husband and I are still together. I don’t know whether I’m in a denial stage, or I just made a decision to stay with him, or I’m just a scaredy-cat. Staying feels less painful than leaving. But I’m continuing to go to therapy so I know myself better and develop healthier patterns for myself. Where that leads, I’m not sure.

        • Tormented, you said: “Those of us who are trusting types are the ones “picked” by the manipulators.”. About three days ago my sister and I were talking about the picker. And we got to the conclusion that chumps are carefully picked by the narcs. And here is the main factor that got us to the sad conclusion. They do not get married to their own kind. They end up with their own when the shit hits the fan and their cover is blown up,not prior to that, and in some cases they find themselves another chump. We spent some time recalling all the families we personally know that were destroyed by adultery including mine and another sister , plus the ones we heard about through friends and family, plus the ones we read about, including this site. Pretty scary. We did not find a single family destroyed by adultery where both were rotten .Too big of a coincidence. Not.
          They recognize their own kind and stay away. They only get together to bring about destruction, not to construct. I get so mad and sad when I think that I married in such a good faith believing that I chose a person with good morals and values, but got a wolf in sheep skin.Chump lady is so right when she says that they suck. They sure do and they also know that . Proof? They pick loyal/trusting/honest spouses. They do not want on them the damage they inflict on their families. So cruel! I just cry when I think I was picked because I was so gullible. So sad.

      • MyRedSandals. Please. Tell me how anybody can do that after 4 decades of history together?
        It’s just fuckedup.
        Grass is greener? I thought we figured that out in our 20’s discussing people who were having affairs.
        They NEVER lasted.

        We didn’t make it quite to 40 years, but close enough.
        I think it still stumps everybody how he could give up our life together after so long.
        But, I think I was much more shocked than anybody.
        Thus – took awhile to sink in that he didn’t want to be ‘married anymore to anybody!’.
        That was his reason for him wanting a divorce.

    • I too had a special brand of cheater – one who really did love me, had mother issues, had married too young, felt that I did not really love him and was led astray by women who “threw themselves at him”.
      I checked out all the usual suspects website wise and spent days scanning one called Hero Spouse where the general advice is all about “standing”. That seems to mean waiting it out while he emerges through the various stages of mid life crisis and affair fog only to eventually morph into a loving partner who will offer a new and improved marriage. The woman who set up the site is testimony to the theory that those who take the time to understand and have the patience to persevere will win through.
      Being desparate and in denial I made a study of all the likely phases and the rules to best handle each and every one.
      My ex never did “re-emerge” so it is just as well that I stumbled upon Chump Lady and changed my tactics.
      Hard but familiar facts became apparent….stories that I thought were unique to my case were reported over and over….cheaters the world over often followed a script just like mine had and came out with the same lines.
      I discovered that I had performed an exhausting pick me dance which had led to “wreckonciliation”.
      Nothing about my situation was original and my cheater was not the exception that proves the rule…just another old common or garden love rat.
      Chump Lady tells us what we need to hear instead of what we want to hear.

      • Mary, I get that kind of wisdom not only from Chump Lady’s posts but also from the comment section. You are so right!

    • Capricorn – Just heartbreaking, and infuriating. I’m sorry. I doubt many of us have have forgotten when we were just three months out. Your head must still be spinning. It’s probably hard to find comfort anywhere or in anything. There’s no one like Tracy for making sense of what’s happened, providing guidance, and to snap you into reality – and there is a treasure-trove of folks who comment here who have traveled the same road that lies ahead of you and genuinely care about what happens to you and your kids. You’ll find valuable guidance here, and legitimate hope.

  • hahahaha – thanks CL – love all your scathing comebacks! Humor is always appreciated when chumps (filed and final judgement in Nov.) are mustering up all their reserves to not collapse and to get thru the day (in between feverishly toggling between and other websites.). forge on, CN – never forgive and never forget!

    • Thanks for sharing the motivation video. I’ll watch it later. And Jean Claude Van Damme — lol, I had a huge crush on him when Kick Boxer came out in the 80’s. 🙂

    • I love Jean Claude! I’ve watched this video before and could only think, ouch, I hope he didn’t hurt anything. He’s still got it!

  • You know, I was at a party last week when I ran into an old friend of mine. She and I were catching up since the divorce; I wouldn’t characterize her as a Switzerland friend, but at one point she’d been good friends with the ex. Thought PreyingMantis was all that and a bag of chips, like most people did. So we get to chatting about *why* we were no longer together.

    Her take – and most people bought into PreyingMantis’ narrative – is that we “just grew apart”. I disabused her of this notion. I let her know, in polite terms of course, that there had been constant and repeated infidelity from the beginning of the relationship all the way through to the end. She was insistent – oh, PreyingMantis could NEVER be like that. I finally interrupted her – I’d had three different friends come to me with nearly identical stories about PreyingMantis’ infidelity – and none of them knew each other. My general contractor even came to me and told me that PreyingMantis had offered him sex. Last, but not least, I had the downloaded .XML files/attachments of five years of my ex’s texts and voicemails. Boy, were there some doozies in there!

    She still kept insisting PreyingMantis couldn’t possibly have been unfaithful to me. I told her, well, we’re going to have to respectfully agree to disagree in this case. I have enough evidence to choke a goat.

    The point here (I should really get to it) is about confirmation bias. She was hell-bent on believing what she wanted to believe because she’d always seen PreyingMantis as such a “nice” person. There was no room in her mind for anything different. The reason why I bring this up is partly because it’s recent, and partly because I just needed to brain dump and get it out of my head, but mostly because the recent events in the political arena are triggering me something fierce.

    It feels like I can tell, and tell, and tell, and tell… and have all the evidence in the world… in black and white, no less… and nobody will believe me. For goodness’ sake, my construction guy is a six foot three big tough biker dude! He’s tough as nails, but was *embarrassed* and *uncomfortable* to tell me why he’d been avoiding me for months! I felt so bad for him.

    And that’s how PreyingMantis operated, in a nutshell. “Nice” exterior, predator interior. Picking off all the people around me, one by one, slowly feeling each one out to find where their weaknesses were, then going in for the kill. So I am in rebuilding mode… it may take me years. But I have all the time in the world, don’t I?

    • Sunny.
      You can take comfort in that you now can see him for who he is with confidence.
      My STBX still seems ‘nice’ even to me! I KNOW he isn’t (the affairs were a great clue) but still I’m stuck thinking of him like that. I guess 22 years of marriage will do that to you if you are a trusting chump. No one I talk to can believe it either so it makes for a very lonely road. But here again I trust that they suck, that you know that he sucks and I can trust that mine sucks too! Even if I sort of don’t at the same time! Aaarrgghhhh

      • Capricorn, I was exactly the same (ask Suzie, marriage builders, etc ….). I felt overwhelmed. I read a little at CL the first few weeks after, but like you, thought this just doesn’t apply to my situation. Respected doctor husband had year and a half affair (whilst I was pregnant no less), however he was so sorry. He cried, he made a one time mistake. I wanted so badly to find the right answer to fix it and put everything right again. I really held onto the “make your marriage EVEN BETTER after the affair!”
        After feeling like I wasn’t seeing REAL remorse (he still felt entitled to work with other women and be friends)… I came back to reading here. Little by little I found my anger and felt validation my feelings. CN saved me YEARS of my life I’m certain. Big hugs and lots of prayers to you. I’m 5 mos out and in the divorce process. SUCKS and hurts everyday. I trust CL’s and advise and CN…. this too shall pass.

        • Oh and mine was “nice” too… the nicest guy and best father in everyone’s eye (including mine). It’s why the thought of it all still knocks the wind right out of me.

          • Because we do that. I knew he was an asshole, abrasive, distant, tough to take, a serial adulterer. I would dread being in social situations with him because I knew he would come across this way, and others would certainly see it. When around “my people” (our only people actually, he had no real friends) I would always find a way to gloss over his shitty ways …..”he’s just tired, he worked a double shift this week, he’s got a lot going on at work”
            Even with all that everyone still knew he was just an asshole. I spent years trying to justify that he was good to my family when he wasn’t and everybody saw him for what he was….I wasn’t fooling anybody. Everybody was relieved when he left me because they knew he was a dick and that I would never of left him.
            We do it, we sell the idea of a great version of them to others to justify why we are with them.We are the used car salesmen trying to convince people that a Pinto is a Porsche.

            • There’s another side to this though. And that’s our ego trying not to admit that we chose a bad egg. For me this was a great hurdle as I’m very proud and prone to perfectionism. I had to learn to let go of being ‘perfect’ and accept the situation as it is. I have to love myself and allow myself to make mistakes.

        • I never found Marriage Builders, but yes to Ask Suzy, and found CL via infidelity Help Desk. And like you both, was not ready to accept CL’s harshness. But the less remorse he showed, the more I came here and began to see what I was really dealing with.

          • Cheaters and people not ready to accept CL’s message might view it as “harshness,” but when I found CL, it was like a teaspoon of honey with medicine. My sense of relief was so great (I’ve said this before), I truly had the sense of clouds parting and sunlight shining through. ‘Epiphany’ is not an understatement.

            • SAME. I liken it to having had a paper bag over my head all those years, and finding CL was like it was finally lifted off. That’s where my screen name came from, for those of you old enough to remember The Gong Show.

              • I used to have a little pin of the Unknown Comic, complete with a little brown bag that tipped up and down. I’d wear it on my jean jacket. ? I wonder what ever happened to it? I don’t remember getting rid of it.

            • For me, all the posts resonated and yet they seemed intended for folks with far more serious situations than the one I thought I had. Then I read the post on the types of chumps, and when I read the description of Limbo Chump … WHACK went the 2 x 4. And it truly hurt for real but was so necessary. There was no looking back once I finally got it and for that I am so grateful.

            • This. I found a more reconciliation-neutral site before stumbling onto Chump Lady. The one good thing about the other site was that it had an article on cheaters that stated cheaters cheat because they can, and that confrontation isn’t a good idea initially. See a lawyer, have evidence first.

              Then I found Chump Lady and have been here ever since. I celebrate one year of divorce in early November. I’ve been in my own place since April. Life is so much better. I am astounded by how much I have to do, how much I get done, and the fact that I’d never be able to do any of it if I were still married to CheaterX, who treated me as I were his personal assistant tasked with managing all the mundane details of his life while he found excitement in sneaking around with Schmoopie.

              They’re married now, only 6 months after the divorce was finalized. She moved in the day after I moved out. I hear that she’s managing the details of his daily life…

              • CheaterX ordered up a new appliance when the dependable old one stopped working. Love it!

                When he complains that they don’t make ’em like they used to and he wants you back, no (or no response) is the correct response.

          • I never saw CL’s message as harsh. It was so clearly TRUE, and fit my situation to a T. As soon as I read about clinging to a Barbed-wire Monkey for love, I knew I’d found the voice of reason! Anyway, she warned us there would be a 2 x 4 to wake us up! That’s what I needed, after being misled for 35 years…

            • I searched for: will my wife return after her rebound relationship? Ugh. Now I want her to want to come back, but only because it would make it easier to manipulate her. But I certainly won’t hold my breath, and I would rather eat lead than share a bed with her skanky snatch.

            • Agree. It was the only response that felt real to me, as the Cosmopolitan-based “pretzel yourself to be easy to be with” just felt depressing.

      • Capricorn, I was just saying to a friend yesterday that part of my cognitive dissonance almost 3 years later comes from the fact the I (along with everyone else) still see him as “nice”. And I’ve even gotten evidence of more cheating recently.

        Sorry that you’re now part of this club. Sending hugs.

        • Just remember… people thought TED BUNDY was nice.

          But, I hear ya… I’m two years separated and when he brings our son home and gives him a hug I look at him like “how can you act so normal when I KNOW you’ll leave here to go meet a fuck buddy/new girlfriend/jerk off to Internet porn/troll dating sites/God knows what.”

          And I say to myself…”It was real. IT. WAS. REAL.”

          Hang in there!

    • There was a recent article online about the psychology of a certain candidate’s supporters. I am a “why do people do that?” person myself, so I found it interesting. CL has helped me to learn that the “why” doesn’t matter, and so I no longer look for excuses for behavior, but arming myself for the future.
      I had similar experiences with mutual college friends. I have never wanted to go to Switzerland, so I avoid it once someone reveals their nationality. There are so many other nice places to visit.

      • This. I’ve learned to not ask why. This site has taught me to step back and allow bullshit to pass me by without any desire to know “why.”

      • The only part of the “why” that really helped me in my healing process was learning about narcissists and their patterns. It was so incredibly accurate in describing my STBXH and what he did to me and how he systematically destroyed our whole marriage. I love how CL describes the 3 channels on this narcissistic mind-fuck channel: charm, self-pity, & rage. Brilliant and so spot on!!! But understanding him and his fucked up behaviors still does not excuse or change anything, so now I’ve moved on from the “why” to it’s about me now only dealing with people who truly deserve me and fixing my picker. Fuck him, he sucks!!!

      • Wait, wait!! There are STELLAR members of our community you may not realize are Swiss. “Switzerland” as a metaphor for cowardly friends who refuse to be morally outraged at what was done to us–Boo. Switzerland as a country with real (and often wonderful) people–Yeah!!

        • I was speaking figuratively, not literally. Sorry if I besmirched any Swiss folk!
          I actually love the country and the people, and omg the chocolate.
          I cut all of the people who remained neutral out of my life. It was a very small number because STBX doesn’t have many friends.

          • Yes–yeah! to the chocolate, too. The only place we need certified nuts in our lives ; ).

    • That’s why I stopped trusting “nice” on D-Day. Now I only trust brutally honest, which at the end of the day turns out to be a whole lot nicer.

    • ““Nice” exterior, predator interior.” Yep! The only people who know my ex isn’t “nice” are the people who have seen behind the mask and there aren’t very many of them. HOWEVER, like I’ve told my ex over and over again — “God has seen it all” and in the end, that’s truly all that matters.

      His family knows the truth about him up to a point, but I’m sure they’ve spun it in their minds that I’m to blame for his lying and cheating. Much easier to put the blame on me than to accept that their son/nephew/cousin is a lying, cheating predator. It’s much easier to accept the false self he portrays to the world instead of accepting the evil that lurks beneath the surface.

      • Same here Martha. His entire family supports him. It was “so out of his character”… had more to do with me not being a good match for him. Ugh 🙁

        • Often the family knows who they really are, but feel it is in their best interest not to acknowledge it to the outside world. Some of the taint might rub off on them.. In addition — they want the predator to keep on living off of new victims — so he/she won’t have to slink back to home base and live off the family. There are many social reasons to pretend you do not know how a family member really is — most of them have to do with self-preservation.

          “Friends” never had to live with the predator. People like to believe that those types of bad things will never happen to them, or anyone they know. Again — that taint might rub off. You cannot do anything with people who refuse to see, hear, or evaluate the truth. You are wasting your breath.

          In the long run, it is not your job to convict your predator in the court of popular opinion. It is only important that your eyes have been opened, that you know all you need to know to get away and stay as far away as you can from the predator. People who really have your best interest at heart will not argue with you about your reality — they either like you and stand by you, or you are wasting your own oxygen breathing in the same air they breath.

          I’ve always found it interesting that people will argue false equivalencies. Two entirely separate acts may both be bad, if both are true. One does not cancel out the other. So, if the perpetrator of Act A is a bad person because he is a rapist, it does not make the perpetrator of Act B a good person because he merely robbed a bank. They are both bad people. Now — you are certainly entitled to your own opinion of which perpetrator you would rather sit beside on the bus if you absolutely have to ride a crowded bus and those are the only two seats available. For instance, I have no money, so there is nothing for the bank robber to steal from me, so I would probably pick the robber for the ride. Doesn’t mean I have to like him. The rapist is more despicable to me — because that is my personal value/opinion. Don’t like him either — probably hate is not too strong of a word to describe the way I feel. Still — both are bad, and both are guilty in my eyes. There is no argument to defend either, and no need for one.

          • Portia, I’m convinced my ex’s family knows who he really is. But to acknowledge it would let all their skeletons out of the closet, which, up until this all happened, they believed were firmly hidden away.

          • Portia, you belong in the CL Commenter Hall of Fame, which I just made up. Always so insightful, rational and eloquent. It’s a joy to read your comments.

            • True Scotty. Meanwhile there is an idiot roaming the land since she set him loose. Cause only a fool departs from a wisdom.

          • I vividly remember calling my xMIL after my x told her we were divorcing, her words to me were “Well, I could have divorced my husband (my x FIL) several times, men do what they do”. There was no sympathy. It was a how dare you. Several months later was Mother’s Day. My ex was supposed to spend the night at his mother’s so I could have the day with our kids. Instead of being at his mothers, he choose to go out and party (I assume with his affair partner). The next morning (Mother’s Day) he went to pick his mother up for brunch and found she had suffered a massive stroke. My x MIL was in the hospital for over a month, during which my ex took two trips for pleasure and one for business, leaving her at the age of 85 alone and scared (I know because my best friend is a nurse at that hospital, the nursing staff was not impressed). Fast forward 18 months, my xMIL is in a nursing home, my children have only seen her 3 times. After the last visit my children told me that she was placed in hospice care. The cherry on top, my xMIL does not remember we are divorced and told my kids she misses and loves me. This from a woman who was very passive aggressive toward me the entire 26 years I knew her. So it is a strange mix of Karma.

    • I’ve heard the same insistence that X doesn’t seem like that kind of guy. I can’t believe X would be deceitful, he’s always so nice and so funny. No, sorry I can’t see him doing something like that.
      Well, that’s not what X told me, maybe you’re just bitter. People get like that during a divorce.

      The John Boy person he portrays to the world is much different than who is behind closed doors.
      His great guy, John Boy image he presents to the world is apparently very convincing.
      Now that I’ve had distance the person he portrays to the world is too perfect to be realistic.
      Unfortunately I bought it.
      I only wish I had realized it myself much sooner.

      Loved the videos Capricorn, thank you for sharing.., sorry you found yourself here. CN has saved my sanity,

      • “Now that I’ve had distance the person he portrays to the world is too perfect to be realistic.
        Unfortunately I bought it.
        I only wish I had realized it myself much sooner.”

        Lots of wisdom from my fellow chumps today.

        Yeah, I honestly thought my ex was perfect. His mommy said he was “special and perfect.” Everyone thinks he’s such a “nice guy.” No one is perfect! No one is as perfect as the person he portrays himself to be! And it’s gotta be exhausting keeping up that persona all day long at work. That’s why when he came home from work, the mask fell when we first got married. Like right away he turned into a different person. He totally conned me.

        Never again will I fall for this kinda crap. If someone seems too good to be true, I’m gone! Any lying. Gone. Any blameshifting. Gone. Any gaslighting. Gone. Anything that looks like cheating. Gone. Any triangulation. Gone. Too many women “friends.” Gone. Being close and going on lunch dates with former girlfriends. Gone.

        • Damn, now I feel dumb! NOBODY thought my ex was a nice guy! Not even me! NOBODY was surprised to find out he had cheated twice, and that he had been scary and threatening (I think many people didn’t believe me when I said he hadn’t actually hurt me, just scared the shit out of me and the kids several times). NOBODY was terribly surprised at how poorly he treated the kids post-separation; shocked, yes, but not surprised.

          I was surprised to realize he was dishonest. And I was horribly surprised and shocked at how he treated the kids, I really did think he loved them and cared about them. Sigh.

          But man was I dumb, dumb, dumb. This guy had so many red flags and so many OTHER unacceptable behaviours. But he was such a sad sad sausage (and good looking and smart, and initially good in bed too …) The cheating was just what got me out. Thanks, Shmoops!

          • Karen!! The Cluster Fuck B Sociopath was not a nice guy either. You are not dumb. I admit I did not know the depravity of his fuckupness until the discard. I was well aware he was fucked up though. I really thought he had a horrible untreated depression that he soothed with alcohol. Ha ha ha. Joke is on me because I never once considered he had a character disorder until I met Chump Lady. Then it all fell into place after 18 years of my dumb ass co-dependant chump self. I set my own needs and desires aside to attend to his issues and constant shit storms. He cannot change. I totally trust that he is the devil’s spawn, evil to the core. I knew he was a rude, abusive, entitled, vengeful, demanding person. Saw it everyday. I still don’t know what in the actual fuck I was thinking? I guess I was so beat down I just took the abuse. Now he is somebody else’s problem, and I couldn’t be more grateful about that.

            • That’s how I got thrown for a loop, too, Exorcist. I knew early on that he was pretty screwed up and had anger issues, so figured that that’s all I was dealing with (although that should have been enough to make me get the hell out!), but I never thought he was a cheater, so that was the deal breaker when I found out he is fucked up on EVERY level. In some ways, I’m glad he was horrible to the core, otherwise, I would have still been hanging on and dealing with his anger issues, hooked on hopium that I could help change him, yeah right!!! But the cheating was the ultimate deal breaker, and turns out…my ticket to peace and freedom. 🙂

              • It’s utterly amazing the similarities in stories these character crazy fucks bring to the table. I forgot to mention the Cluster Fuck B Sociopath had serious anger issues as well. Raging asshole.

          • KarenE–but we had to SAVE them!!! That is the knife-twist of asshole cheaters–we chumpily fall in love with them because we just know in our heart of hearts that they are broken, or socially inept, and we are Miracle Workers! We can train them to be, if not fabulous, at least more normal. And they milk the Pity Channel for all it is worth.

            I actually had a mutual friend say to me after the divorce, “Didn’t you know he was an asshole? The rest of us knew he was an asshole.”

            I replied, “I thought he was MY asshole.”

            • Tempest, we thought they were regular, fucked up people, like the rest of us. They were a whole other thing. A shark in a human suit, a Pod, a narc. A whole other type that we never imagined existed.

              • Yes, you are right, flutterby. We thought they were regular, fucked up people, like the rest of us. Yes, you are right: they were a whole other thing. A whole other type that we never imagined existed. Yes. We did not know, until we experienced it.

                Now that my blinders have been removed, I see these types. They are drawn to religious communities, where they can have their way with nice, non-confrontational, overlooking, forgiving people. They get into positions of leadership in the Faith community, because of their ability to imitate — in this case they imitate the devout, faithful believer, which under the disguise, they are anything but.

                These sharks know the right words to say. They can stuff their evil and hate into a compartment for the short time they are in a service. Or maybe can conceal it while they are courting a nurturing woman. But have sex with one of these demons? And all of his sickness floods into your psyche. It is having sex with a demon, or a zombie.

                Anyway, this George Simon has written about these disordered nut jobs and he gives very, very good advice for dealing with them. Learning this method however, is a process!!! It is only improved with practice and is very easy to overshoot.

                I use Simon’s methods with my high school students who are narcissistic, for example, and it is very, very effective. I’m trying it with a faith-community board member, but very complex when it’s done in a meeting, with a whole table full of nice, kind, long-suffering believers who don’t like it when I say: “Shut the hell up asshole!!!” Joking there. That’s not Simon’s advice at all. His spirit is confront, and lovingly benign.

                This method also worked with the cheating, lying, flame-thrower STBX. BUT, I pushed it too far, and he melted down. This is a skill, a craft, a tool, and it must be practiced. It takes finesse. If it were easy to do, there would not be so many assholes everywhere.

        • The reason I don’t want to condemn Switzerland friends and family is that the traitor fooled me 24/7 for almost nine years. If I couldn’t see it, how can I expect them to? It hurts that they don’t see it because I need them to, but I can’t expect them to see it when I had a ringside seat for years and I was blind. Sad but true. So I really don’t blame Switzerland people but I have to keep some distance to protect myself now.

          • Kiwi, I’m going through a hard time at work. My boss is giving me the whole class on how to conduct an office affair. Strange things is, I’m not the only person that was cheated on in the office. A coworker is just starting out, but she’s just not seeing the parallel situation. There are just some people that don’t have a problem with people that cheat…. they just don’t. Those are Switzerland people that you just have to shut down. Pick the people that suit your values get rid of the rest.

      • Know who else comes across as ‘aw, shucks’ John Boy? Josh Duggar, who is one sick MFer. “Nice” can be a facade. One of my superficially “nicest” neighbors is the one who called the Homeowner’s Association on me for a non-pristine yard the week of my divorce, when I was still semi-suicidal (and since she’s a gossip, she knew the reason for the divorce). Sometimes “nice” is actually evil.

        • Tempest, this sat with me… “Sometimes “nice” is actually evil.” I’m on page 128 of Gavin DeBecker’s “The Gift of Fear” I started it just a few days ago and I’m hooked! He talks about exactly that… Charm and Nice don’t always equal good intentions. It’s so true! How many times do we hear the expression, “Smile in your face, and stab you in the back”? Now I know what I wish I knew…We have to keep those antennas up at alllllll times.

          • That book is on my “to read” list! My ex-MIL’s favorite quote is, “Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.” Now I realize how she can be so fake and phony like her spawn. Just like “Smile in your face, and stab you in the back.” I truly don’t know how people can go through their lives being so fake and Eddie Haskel-ish. If I don’t like someone, they know it.

    • Sunny, beware. That so called friend is a nasty passive aggressive nitwit. I could understand if someone said, “my goodness I find that so hard to believe but if you have proof……….” or something along that line but she is basically stating that she has no intention of believing your side of the story. Dead set on believing the cheater’s side though.

      • I know I am pretty jaded, but my first thought was “she’s one more from the list of people who knew and/or participated”.

        • Im finding that more and more people who knew or participated are popping up everyday. :/

        • I thought the same thing. One of his many partners, now come round to continue the gas lighting. “Hell bent on believing what she wanted…”. She sounds hell bound as well. I hope you never try to talk to her again, Sunny.

        • Could be or she just thoroughly enjoys further frustrating Sunny by not accepting Sunny’s accurate version of the marital breakup. Unfortunately in life we not only have the perpetrators that have screwed us over and have caused pain but there are also the certain bystanders that smugly enjoy our pain.

          • “we not only have the perpetrators that have screwed us over and have caused pain but there are also the certain bystanders that smugly enjoy our pain.”

            . . . KB, I got ALL of that in one cheater. I can still remember the ‘WTF-happened-here?’ feeling when he looked like he enjoyed my discomfort.

            • Most cheaters do enjoy inflicting emotional pain, makes them feel powerful. Shock value is a plus. Their supporters (minions) also get a kick out of our misery. Defective losers, the whole lot of them.

      • You’re so right! I went to her FB profile, saw that she was friends with a bunch of people with known cheating episodes in their life, and put her on restricted view so she can see nothing. There will be an even more comprehensive review this weekend. I think I’ll be deleting even more people in this next round. This is why I’m so grateful for all of you. You catch things right off the bat that chumpy me might not ever have caught. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

    • Sunny … yes, confirmation bias. I just had a very nice visit from my sister, who is and has always been extremely supportive of me through life. But. She really likes my STBX … she knows the superficial, funny, “great guy” version of him. She also knows all the things that I have told her and she believes me, yet she has real doubts. On several occasions she has asked me HOW I know that he was having a homosexual affair over 30 years. The implication is that I am making this up or exaggerating or misunderstanding evidence or demonizing him for my own reasons. When I tell her I know because he and I sat down and I confronted him with what I had learned and he admitted it … she looks uncomfortable. She is forced to decide if she believes I would lie to her for some reason versus it is all true. She is perilously close to believing I am lying, which really makes me sad. She supports me regardless of whether she believes me or not, which is not as good as it sounds. I just have had to accept that the truth is SO different than what he projects that no one would ever believe it. It doesn’t change what I have had to do to protect myself and get on with the rest of my life. But it stings.

      Welcome, Capricorn. Your description of initially believing it was only an emotional affair mirrors my experience exactly. If only that were true, right? Glad you are here and thank you for that motivational video.

      • Dixie, I had the same set of questions asked of me a few months back… I think it’s honestly because it’s so unimaginable what these pods actually do/say. It does knock the wind right out of your sails… It’s hard for anyone to believe that hasn’t been through it. That’s why I’ve had to read so many articles on Narcs and PA behavior and I come here where people get dealing with these freaks. Until you listen to other people with similar stories, you almost question what you’re experiencing yourself! I guess that’s why we call it crazy-making…

        • Agree, normal people can’t believe some people act like this and can’t imagine it. Met up last week with traitor’s SIL. As I warned her, traitor and whore have cut off his family. Now she knows I wasn’t making this shit up. But I don’t blame her and his brother for wanting to believe in their kin. Still was good to be vindicated. Time is on the chumps side I hope.

          • Kiwichump, It has been my experience that time reveals all truths. That’s why when dealing with my past cheaters and getting that “gut” feeling that they were unfaithful, I would hum the song “Time is on my side” by The Rolling Stones. It’s like I already knew…

            • Yes Peakyblinders, I keep humming that to myself that too.
              And Time Wounds all Heels…

        • I know! Many of us thought we were living your standard suburban life, only to find out we were invitees to the Jerry Springer show.

          • That is SO, SO TRUE! I was happy. We had JUST gotten back from a little weekend trip for our tenth anniversary. Then he started acting weird and distant. He had told me he wanted more sex so I tried to initiate and he rejected me which was not like him at all. Then he told me he slept with someone else and she was pregnant. And my entire world crumbled. And now he’s leaving me for her. He said “I can’t believe I’m saying those words. It doesn’t even sound like me. This is like something from Jerry Springer.” And it was. And is. And I am still devastated. Almost 11 weeks from d-day and I still love him and wish he had picked me. Whoremat “lost” the baby but he says they are in love. Somehow it’s real love after 5 months of texting ? And it’s NOT infatuation! HA! I got ILYBINILWY and he has no idea how badly this is going to fail. But I can’t do anymore than I have. Told him he needs to fix himself which he knows. But he’s choosing to abandon his wife, his life, his pet, his home and be with some slunt doormat and that is all him. NC once he leaves Saturday.

    • The people who remain convinced that your ex is a “nice guy” are a special kind of stupid.
      His actions show he is not. Anyone who claims to be a “nice guy” usually never is, doesn’t everyone know that by now?? Unfortunately, people are self absorbed. The only experience that matters to them is their own. THEY didn’t have an unpleasant experience of him so why would they think badly of him?
      But as we all know, the people closest to the disordered always get burned. They want to be buddies with someone lacking a moral compass? Good luck, idiots!!

    • Sunny,
      I feel your pain. My human cold sore of an ex is exactly the same. Devotes so much energy to bring “Mr Nice Guy” From what I have experienced he is a soul sucking parasitic monster.

      He has everyone in the town convinced I am a heartless witch for leaving him. I’ve been randomly attacked by his latest gf- who screamed at me that I had “ruined his life” Ha
      Funnily enough I’ve always felt quietly supported by his mother, who is still ensconced in a 40 year marriage to an abusive cheating assclown. At 70, I think she feels it’s too late to leave, but I always felt she was quietly cheering from the sidelines that I refused to put up with her sons constant bullshit
      His family have always known how fucked up he is I guess. They must have assumed I was extremely fucked up too to get involved with him
      But yeah it drives me mad that he has so many people fooled
      Sending strength & hugs ☀️

  • Once in a long while, I wonder if my ex wife Googles things like this, such as:

    “Ex husband with impossible standards”
    “Finding love after marriage”
    “How to avoid weak spouse who abandons you when you’re unstable.”

    I know that she cyberstalks me (which is hard to do given I eschew social media), and she sends and unanswed text to me each year for my birthday.

    But, I don’t think she needs the InterWebs to sustain her warped view of the world. And introspection or curiousity like the phrases above, no matter how delusional or self-serving, are not in her wheelhouse. She has her beliefs and her values, and she does her best to avoid challenging them.

    It’s easier to sleep at night when you believe you’re a gift to the world, and you purposefully avoid any information contrary to that view.

    • I know what you mean. I’ll add that she probably did say those things to her AP (he has high standards, I’m looking for real love, he took me for granted) because that’s what my ex-H told his latest about me. But it’s just part of their made-up story … it suits their purposes for the time being in order to snag the next victim. Like you, I don’t think they sustain the thought, though, to the point that they actually research it or think about it all the time because it hurts them too much. I think deep down they know it’s a lie.

      The counsellor suggested to my ex-H that he might be avoidant. On the way to the car, he quoted Aristotle, “The mark of an educated mind is to entertain a thought without accepting it.” Priceless!!! Avoidant and arrogant at the same time!!!

      • You should have responded, “I am entertaining the thought of reconciling with you, but no…I cannot accept it.”

      • Oh, yes. I don’t think about it often–I never actually met the OM and now live 2,500 miles from their dysfunctional “partnerhood,” but I agree that she probably has a solid 3 or 4 “reasons” why I was an unworthy spouse, and she tells her man this, as well as sprinkles in whatever random negative thing about me she can when trying to shower him with some sparkles. “JC didnt fill-in-the-blank like you do.”

        Your husband quoted Aristotle? I think I would have laughed out loud if my ex did that to me.

        • We had a mutual acquaintance who had it framed on a wall, so that’s where he got it from. Both my ex and the acquaintance are functional alcoholics (avoidant much?) Interestingly, a reason my ex-H gave me for not liking me was that I was too smart. He said Twatface wasn’t as smart. She’s too dumb to know why he needs someone dumber than him.

          • She’s too dumb to know he needs someone dumber than him.
            Just scared my cat spitting my tea! You really are a champ!

  • Back in the days of old, I googled “difference between emotional and physical affair” and miraculously landed here. My next Google search was “how to kill someone and make it look like an accident”, but I shook myself out of that quickly since I’m actually a pretty decent person and not a murderous psychopath.
    There are still days I wish my ex would fall off a mountain, but they are fewer and further between, which I suppose means I am making progress.
    I’m glad I spent weeks reading the stories here and realized the tragic absurdity of being cheated on is all too common and completely unoriginal.

    So thanks Chump Lady and of course Google, for steering me where I needed to go..

    • “My next Google search was “how to kill someone and make it look like an accident”

      LOVED THIS!! Hahahahaha.


      • You’d be surprised- there are some really original ideas. lol.
        There was also an entire day of trying to figure out ways to play the long game, a la Amazing Amy, to see what nefarious plot I could unleash on ex and his gal.
        Turns out there was no need, the misery coming out of that pairing is pretty awful.
        I feel so badly for her soon to be ex husband and kids, but I hope they too start their own google searches and end up here:)

        • Can you contact her husband and direct him here? I presume he’s another chump.

    • First of all, I adore your screen name! Every time I see it I smile because that would be my response to my ex if he wanted to hook up. Ugh no… Or talk. Or communicate in any way. Ugh no… Your post made me giggle. I may have to do that search just for the fun of seeing the creative responses. I’ve thankfully reached the point where I’m satisfied that my ex having to live WITH himself and WITHOUT me and his kids is punishment enough. That, and knowing his stripper girlfriend has flame (or crab claw) tattoos coming from her vajayjay and he has to look at that every single day and know she doesn’t get the irony. 😀

      • I still cannot get over the flame tattoo coming out of her vajayjay… And it’s not like she is a hot 22 year old either! It makes me laugh every time I think about it ?

        • Why isn’t there a vomiting emoji? Because I need one for this mental picture!

    • Laugh of the day! It’s amazing we survive this stuff and go on to laugh again. Thanks, Ugh no.

    • I remember that show “Snapped.” I think it was mostly about women who just one day lost it and offed their spouses. Many of the offed husbands had been cheaters. One in particular that I never forgot was a woman who “accidentally” ran over her husband in a parking lot after finding him at his love nest. He might have survived had she not accidentally run over him more than once. I remember thinking, I should probably not be laughing about this.

      • I also remember STBX getting pissy with me for watching the show and asking me if I doing research to get some ideas. yeah, that should have been a red flag right there.

        • I made a point of watching those shows in front of the traitor. Made him retreat to his second lazyboy in the dining room. Gave him the creeps. That was months after he accused me of trying to poison him, because he had heartburn. Might as well have a bit of fun.

    • I love Heisenberger evil though he is. Wouldn’t want my real life. One psycho is enough

    • I watched this show during the early days of my pick-me dancing, D-Days and often times wanted to be just like Walter White. Some of my favorites;

      “tread lightly”

      “we’re done when I say we’re done.”

      “I am the one who knocks.”

      Oh yes, Walter is a badass. He’s also a complete narcissist.

    • I have developed a bit of an obsession with the Godfather trilogy and am now reading the original version of the book. I am also of Sicilian heritage. The idea that one could go and sell one’s soul (essentially) to have justice brought against someone of your choosing is seductive at a time of intense anger and hurt. I am settling for putting a curse on his new VW with the stick shift and the rubber floor mats. Too bad I don’t really believe in curses. 🙂

      • I like to put a placeholder post early on the morning if I plan to read real-time during the day. I realize now these gifs don’t have any context. oops. ? still fun though.

        I agree, Dixie. I have thought long and hard about the Robert Duvall consigliere role in The Godfather. Just a commitment to the dark side and it’d be easy. But nah. I enjoy the light and justice. Match Girl tried to destroy that. And your cheater put you through the wringer too, obviously. Don’t mess with his VW. (i do love my VW, but it’s just too easy to catch you if you do mess with his!)

        Heisenberg is a bad dude, and his wife is a cheater. To be fair, if you are a major narcotics manufacturer, your relationship is not simple anyway.

        • Putting a curse on a VW is a mental effort … I don’t think you could get caught at it. It’s not like pouring sugar in the tank or slashing the tires!! Besides, there are too many damn security cameras these days …

          I choose to believe I would never seek the help of a Godfather, but I am also thankful that is not an option just now. 😉

      • Yes yes! The Godfather Trilogy is a great watch. Sicilian heritage for me also, 1st generation. I have watched the Godfather several times in my lifetime. One of the best castings ever. Puzo is genius.

        I remember the times I watched the Godfather pre-DDay. Specifically the scene in which Sonny Corleone (James Caan) gets machined gunned down at the tollbooth, I remember feeling this very strong empathy for him for dying in such a violent manner. Especially when Brando was in the morgue and pulled the death blanket down to reveal his oldest son’s bloody face and said, “look what they have done to my boy” – I just about lost it.

        But post DDay watching the Godfather is different for me. As you know Sonny Corleone was the womanizing serial cheater and NOW when I watch him getting gunned down at the tollbooth and dying in such a violent manner, I’m screaming… DIE YOU CHEATING MOTHERFUCKER DIE!!! 🙂

      • Oh shit dixie, I hope you got that far into the book. Hope Im not a spoiler.

        • LOL! No spoilers possible, Sure. I am far too familiar with the movies!! I like when Sonny kicks the shit out of his sister’s cheating husband for giving her a black eye. And now that I know that you are Italian, I am on the verge of love bombing you! Ti amo!!

          • Ti amo anch’io. 🙂

            Oh I will take the love bombing Dixie, but I like giving it too. Hehe

            Also I love the scene of Dianne Keaton telling Pacino that she aborted her baby.

  • My search – cheating husband is an asshole.
    X’s search – looking for local hookups.
    My search – good divorce lawyer
    X’s search – how to con your wife to keep the gravy train rolling.
    My search – everything I could read on Chump Lady
    X’s search – (who knows, I don’t give a shit)
    My search – loving yourself and gratitude.

    • Exactly!!! My searches truly were divorce and custody laws in my state, why do men have emotional (ha ha) affairs, how long does it take an alcoholic to have health problems (was gonna try and outlive him), etc.

      His searches were great places to ski, local happy hour specials, asian porn, etc. The really bad searches were carefully cleared out of the browser history but sometimes he forgot when he was drunk.

  • BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! “Hot Pockets”! Perfect illustration of the uncluttered mind of a cheater! Thanks for the laugh, CL!

  • “Whatever flavor of fucked up it is, get away from it.”

    Best laugh of the morning. Thanks CL.

    Now when he goes completely off the rails at me, I can tell him, “take your super nutty, fudge-swirled, double-dipped bowl of crazy somewhere else.”

  • “what is he thinking during no contact”

    “Mmm. Hot Pockets!”

    Yep, they really are that shallow. When you finally come to terms with that, it’s the beginning of Meh.

  • I’m pretty sure I searched something like “how to win my cheating husband back” or “husband cheating save my marriage”. Got lots of RIC, but also CL. Thank goodness.

  • Mine not only told me repeatedly, “I’m just a nice guy!” – but to others, he was a victim of my abuse, and spent YEARS trying to build up the courage to leave. It hurt as much as the affair did.

    He went beyond the pale – he actually became a “hero” of some sort in his head, for ending a terrible marriage that he was unhappy in for “30 then 20 then 10 years.”

    Is this a phenomenon others have had? Do they glorify themselves / their cheating as BRAVE?

    He became, probably always was, a compulsive liar- just like his hero worship of his older brothers- both cheaters, too.

    I believe he became mentally unstable, as I truly believe the bought this shiz, I heard every excuse for the reason for the divorce, except the real one. He wanted to live with the OW – thought he could hide the “love shack” from everyone, was furious when he was busted.

    • Yep. They’re just trying to live an AUTHENTIC life and have a GRAB A LITTLE BIT OF HAPPINESS after years, no decades, slogging it out in an unhappy marriage with an awful spouse. Poor them. The next chump is in for a big surprise.

    • Mine definitely saw himself as courageous for ending our marriage after being involved with a married coworker. He wrote in his journal, “It only takes 20 seconds of facing your fear to change your life.” Last I heard, his coworker didn’t leave her husband for my ex, though.

      • Apparently she lacks even 20 seconds worth of “courage”. I’m kind of hoping the 20 second clock on your ex’s courage ran out when you punched him dead in his face. Idiot.

      • Sure, a lot can happen in 20 seconds. You can destroy your reputation, your livelihood, your family…it’s amazing how much change you can trigger with just 20 seconds worth of self-centered decision making.

        • Seriously! Easy to completely destroy someone you supposedly love in those 20 seconds too. I’ll never be innocent again. I’m not sure I can ever trust a man again in life, I may never find love again or affection or intimacy either. I may never have a stable place to live again or feel safe in my life again either. All because he wants to “be happy”. There is no BE HAPPY you love your life you make he best of it you try harder to have good things. You love and take care of your person and that is what makes you happy. And he threw me away. ?

      • Wow, so he only spent 20 seconds thinking about all of the horrible consequences of his actions! And he called that facing his fear. Eyeroll!!!

  • Unfortunately for me it was the hopeless search of “Introducing kids to the affair partner” where I came upon the discussion of the unavoidable shit sandwich from CL – validating my hopelessness yet instilling some hopeFULness as well. Thank you for that and for all of you that have posted about their experiences as well. It helps not to feel so alone. I read voraciously every day.

    David on here once said he’s not special (meaning he’s not some hero) and if he can do this so can I. There was a change in me that day. None of us are special; this could happen to anyone. Yet together we remind each other that we are deserving of special treatment – whether from others or from within ourselves. Reminding each of us this really does make us special…

  • I was an Amazon Chump searching for answers for months. Why did she do this? Why did she say that? Why is running around with a married OM better than being with your husband? What can I do to fix this? What is my problem? And there were no answers of course, just a bunch of gibberish mainly telling you how you feel (which I didn’t need a book to tell me – I was already fully aware I was living in hell).

    Then I think I saw Chump Lady mentioned in a comment section on some site somewhere. I checked it out, read her posts, read what you folks were going through in the comment section and my attitude started to change.

    I still don’t know why my wife did the shit she did, I’ll never get an apology or any reasonable explanation (because as I’ve found, a reasonable explanation for all of this shit simply doesn’t exist). The posts on untangling the skien and trusting that they suck have been extremely helpful in that regard.

    There’s no real magic here, just CL sitting back, looking at everything logically, and explaining what she sees (with exceptional clarity and wit). Take away the emotion, look at what they do, look at what they’ve done, and ask yourself if you’re willing to keep putting up with it. People who run around behind their spouses’ backs are inherently selfish, they suck, they’ll always suck, and we just need to finally realize it so we can get away from it. It’s really that simple – it’s just so hard to see in the beginning stages, particularly if you don’t have access to a site like this.

  • I think my all-time favorite is probably “skinny hollom hooker cream when fucking a huge monster cock”. I just can’t not laugh when I read it, and I think I’ll start referring to ex’s Schmoopie as the skinny hollom hooker. Thank you, anon. query-er. That query remains tops in my Chump Lady Hall Of Fame. (Shame?) Lol.

  • The only other site I read now and have emailed myself copies of all their articles is the Infidelity Help Group. Their stuff is also awesome and empowering for chumps. They helped me especially to figure out that I was a TOTAL magical reconciliation pixie, hunting for reconciliation carrots (makes sense if you read their stuff!). They are also good with how to deal with snakes i.e. Cheaters and other great stuff.

    The (unexpected) friends who have been there for me have been chumps themselves but years ago. I have found that sharing Chump Lady’s book with them has helped them hugely even though their experiences were 13 and 7 years ago. They too now browse this site. It validates stuff they felt but didn’t have the incredible chump lady to put into words, nor the unbelievably incredible and fantastic UBT which I wish there was a chip for I could just slot in my head.

    If it wasn’t such a sick making experience for me and the boys it would be nice to be here if that doesn’t sound too weird.

    • I second IHG! Great website.

      I’m so glad I found this site too (even though the crap ass circumstances surrounding it). It’s soul lifting to be among other chumps… strange as that sounds. People willing to take the time to not only share their experiences and give excellent advice… but to cheer you on as well.

      • Oh dear! I even thought once I should be grateful that the traitor made me find CL! How crazy is that? I found it myself looking for help to survive his bullshit and I am chump enough to give him some credit. Is chumpiness incurable?

  • I actually Googled “How to defend yourself against a crazy OW” because apparently infidelity by itself just isn’t horrible enough.

  • This is not on topic, but wanted to share that my first grandchild was born this week. I hadn’t seen my ex in a few years, but he was in the room when I came to see the baby yesterday. It’s been almost 5 years since D-day for me. I was able to sit in the room with my ex and other family members for several hours without feeling anything but happy about the baby. My son really wanted us to all be together in a family picture, and my ex stood next to me while I held the baby. After I left I felt okay. Didn’t have any bad dreams last night. Maybe I’ve finally arrived at the land of Meh! 🙂

    • Congrats on the grand baby, Lyn, and for reaching the promised land of Meh! You are MIGHTY!!!

    • Oh, new babies are sooo wonderful. I am so glad you were able to enjoy that experience while in the same room as your ex. THAT is progress.

    • Beautiful Lyn! Many blessings to your Grandbaby. It is just an amazing feeling, when the X has no power over you anymore ☺️. Glorious Meh!

    • Lyn – what a victory for you! He wasn’t able to steal your baby joy! Sounds like your Tuesday has come!!!

      One of the thoughts that kept me in wreckonciliation for 5 years was not being together with cheater-ex when we got the call that our first grandchild was being born. I couldn’t handle the thought of us not racing to the hospital together, talking about how amazing it was that our baby (or our other baby’s wife) was having a baby. That thought alone kept me in the marriage for too long. One day, I shared this thought with an older chump friend. She said, “if that’s what’s keeping you in it, don’t bother. My husband acted out after all seven of our grandkids were born, saying that it made him feel old”. That was an eye-opening moment.

      Fast forward to 4 years post divorce, neither of my adult children have contact with my ex. Grandkids seem nowhere in the near future. What I know now is that when that day comes, he most likely won’t be there, but I will feel every ounce of joy in my heart. Him not being there will not detract from the moment at all, but will actually be a good thing.

  • I didn’t find CL until my divorce was final and my ex and OW were engaged. I probably googled something like “marrying affair partners.” I actually found some good stuff in addition to CL, the outlook is pretty grim for those two asshats.

  • For all of you dealing with Switzerland people OPP who have difficulty believing the nice guy is really not so nice you need to ask them a couple of questions. “Do you honestly believe that I would sit here and make this stuff up about something that is so painful to me that I will never get over?. Do you have some sort of stake in him being Mr. perfect? What are you getting out of not believing me?” Put the onus back on them. Let them explain why it is more important believing him than it is believing you.

  • Today’s comments have been remarkable. I wanted to add my two cents to almost all, but out of respect to the readership, I resisted.

    Cl, I found you by googling how to survive (yes, I thought I was dying!!! . . . drama by Virago) infidelity, saw a HuffPost article and it referenced you. You were a welcome shelter in the shitstorm. I discovered the concept of No Contact that day . . . thirteen months ago. The Path to the Truth and the Light eh, AllOutofKibble? NC and Humour hold me together.

    I’m not often serious here, but CL/CN saved my life. The unmentioned peril of infidelity is the threat to the victim’s life by their own hand. We often speak here of the threat by the cheater’s hand, rightly so when violent abuse is a potential. Our own can be dangerous as well. Newbies, please get help from your doc (meds for a while), a great therapist, go NC and study all about these disordered characters. It can save your life. Very humble and grateful!!

    A big welcome to Capricorn and thx for the ‘lalalalala’.

    Dixie Chump’s rhyme is firmly planted in my cultured mind . . . “you’re a whore and nothing more”. I privately think of MoFaux as a whore, so I checked Merriam-Webster and confirmed that men can be referred to as whores. The currency is kibble$.

    Sunny, your dilemma with the friend just informs me that she is/was/wants to be a cheater. Our Mr. Nice Guys were covert narcissists. I was MoFaux’s ‘operation’, as I see it. The US Dept of Defence says that is “an operation that is so planned and executed as to conceal the identity of or permit plausible denial by the sponsor.” His dismissal by email after 22 years was jammed with plausible deniability.

    It has to enough that WE KNOW. His wife (before me) KNOWS. She was so relieved to talk to me ~~ for a quarter of a century she held her knowledge and had no one to tell because she thought no one would believe her. I did.

    Ian, what can I say. You are a ‘GIF’t, man. If I am in danger of losing my head in this experience it might as well be by laughing it off!

    Thanks everyone. The more we expand the narrative the greater the likelihood that cheaters will be identified and treated as they deserve.

  • If my memory serves me correctly, and some days I have my doubts…It was “how to survive cheating.” Came upon RIC, knew I couldn’t do the crap they said….then I found CL and CN, and the rest is history! And SHE lived happily ever after.

  • I discovered Chumplady in my quest for revenge.
    A bit counter intuitive if you consider her “meh” philosophy. But that’s how I found her (can’t remember the exact phrase I searched for).
    Her “no bullshit approach” spoke to me. I mean, can you see my nickname? I was a tornado!
    I’m glad I found Chumplady. Her voice helped to tone down my anger and instead, focus on getting out of the mess. It was the voice of reason, and that’s where I channelled my energy, not to emotions. Thus I did not second guess myself, I kept my head/mind straight. And I did not do too many mistakes, to be regretted later, which is … fantastic.
    I am almost out. I’m at the turn where I must start new. Exciting times and scary at the same time.
    Thank you, Tracy, for being here. You did more than any army of “specialists” could do.

    • That’s fantastic. I know all too well about channeling all the energy into emotions that got me nowhere. The Moonstruck “Snap out of it!” Slap across the face from this site definitely got me in gear.

  • The D-Day that caused my divorce occurred in the same year that would have been my 30 year wedding anniversary. Why did it take 30 years? Think of what happens in the love bombing stage. The narcissist mirrors your own qualities back to you. They study you so intensely that they know just what to say and do to convince you that they are the love of your life, the one who is just like you. And surely the love of your life would never cheat on you. The narcissist projects the image of a moral person yet he is the exact opposite. The narcissist maintains the façade until he gains your trust. With both feet in, you are committed to the narcissist, with all your hopes and dreams pinned on him. This image of the narcissist as a good and noble person, the love of your life, is entrenched in your brain. When you first find that phone number in his glove compartment, you think, “Well, we just started dating. He must think we’re not yet exclusive, and still at that playing-the-field stage.” Later, when you get the crabs, you think. “Surely he must have picked them up from a toilet seat. Because he could have NEVER cheated on me. He is just not that type of person. That doctor I talked to said you could get crabs from sharing a towel with someone. But who would he have shared the towel with?” Later on, when he would start to talk to me, he would begin to address me with what sounded like another woman’s name. He would always stop himself after the first syllable of her name and try to turn it in to a pet name for me or just say my name. Initially, I just thought he was excited and tongue-tied. He did this many times before I finally asked myself, “Is he starting to call me by another woman’s name and then stopping himself in mid-syllable? Could he be having an affair with this woman?” The answer to myself was, “I don’t think he could be having an affair. He’s just not that type of person. But in case, he is, I don’t want to go there because I just could not go on without him.” Was this Stockholm Syndrome?
    Fast forward many years to the last year of our marriage, and I have learned about narcissism (due to emotional abuse on his part that I could not turn around). He fit the bill for the emotional and physical abuse as well as the financial exploitation. My education tells me that narcissists are notorious cheaters and liars, which to me is the worst thing in the world. In this last year of marriage, I am devalued like never before and at year end I finally get physical evidence of cheating that cannot be gaslighted away.
    The fact that his behavior was textbook narcissism and I found physical evidence of cheating told me exactly what I was dealing with rationally although it is difficult to reconcile emotionally.

    • Chumptacular,

      I think one reason cheaters are able to deceive their chumps for years and decades has to do with how they choose us in the first place. Chumps are good and loyal people. We tend to erect our boundaries not just around ourselves, but our near and dear as well. If we are mugged on the street, we call 911, but we do not expect harm to come to us from within our camp. Recognizing that is hard. It means acknowledging a traitor within, among those we trust implicitly. It makes us question our judgment. And it is harder still if we are being gaslit by a cheater. Eventually, reality and anger set in and the future becomes more important than untangling the past. Good luck to you in a new and better life.

  • I think the search went something like “cheating narcissistic assholean idiot.”

    I found this place while looking for resources to help my SIL overseas who was reliving my old hell 20 years later. As a happy extra bonus I found a lot of answers to my own old questions. Things like “What the hell was wrong with him?” and “How on earth did that happen to me?” And I found that not only have a hell of a lot of good people found themselves in that same boat, but there is a whole chump flotilla armed with extra life vests and stolen copies of the Cheaters Handbook. Awesome.

    • Oh Survivor, how do I express my love for your post? From “assholean” to “a whole chump flotilla” your magical way with words reminds me of why I keep coming to bask in the wisdom and snark and hilarity of CN.

  • Like many, I spent most of my free time following D day ( the ex walked out on me and our adult children, one afternoon I was happily baking cookies for his choir and-unbeknownst to me-his choir saaaoouuullllmmaaate, a family friend.. while reflecting how delighted I was to have one of my children visiting from university and bamwham one hour later right after his text mistakenly popped up on my phone rather than hers was told that the house would need to be sold, I would be given 100$ per week for food because “I am little and don’t eat much”, and of course after 24 years it would be great fun to revert back to my maiden name, wouldn’t it). I got the ( now I know to be the typical) “we grew apart”, “we don’t communicate well”, ” we don’t have anything in common”, ” she’s got absolutely nothing to see with my leaving”, “this is a common decision we are making you and me” ect. Strange how they nevah evah leave unless they have the waiting girl standing close by in the wings, isn’t it?

    Like many of us I too stumbled on the Chump Lady but would not, did not want to believe that she was dead-on ( like, really dead-on ) accurate. Nooo siree, CL was wayyyy too harsh. My dear husband truly looooved me, he was mislead by the bilious horrid manipulative woman ( who had been suspected by her step family of flycasting for many years given that her second husband had a degenerative disease and that she was thought to be keen in securing an able body spouse in her future). Oh nnooo, he would take care of me as he promised, would honour his financial obligations to me and our children etc. Well he did all the financial and gaslighting conning that CL had hypothesized upon ( and way more…trying to get revenue numbers from a self-employed high rolling consultant is like trying to nail jello to the wall… )

    However ( and this is something I would really like to read other posters’ own experience on this very topic ) my huge, bottomless huge mistake was to cast almost all the blame on the affair partner’s side. Why she was the psychopath she-devil who strayed a perfect gentleman out of his righteous path, a loving father, husband blah blah blah. As it turned out while she most certainly confirmed suspicion of self-interest in the last two years since his departure, i have slowly come to understand that he has been responsible for all the lies, deceptions, financial cover-up and omissions which came my way in the last two years predating and two years post-departure from the family home.

    This is something which I would try to help a newbie in our club as it is probably really important to reinforce. We don’t want to believe we are not longer loved, cared for and that the protector has turned predator on us. The horror of this is unfathomable. Therefore it becomes much more reassuring to cast the vast majority ( if not all) of the blame onto the other woman with whom we have no connection nor bonding. This become a mental lifeline, a dubious lifesaver seemingly keeping us afloat but in fact filled with toxic dust. Keeping us shackled to stupid, irrational hope, prolongued misery, repeated disappointment.

    Oh to be sure, I now perfectly understand that this other woman/new wife is most likely qualifying for a life in a newly purchased million dollars home shouldering the guy’s future depressed moods, Korean Leader dead glares of discontentment, disappointment and possible future nagging suspicions that she is not quite meeting the grades. However I do wish I had not have spent the first 18 months of my post D Day praying for the wonderful prince to snap out of his affair fog, see her for what she “was” and hope for the Great Epiphany. That he would revert back to the wonder guy he had been before the witch came along. Of all the bogeymen, this is the scariest and the most powerful. To keep hoping that the prince will free himself from the horrid ice queen’s influence not wanting to face the fact that he is no prince at all, but a full-fledged narcissistic wholly involved in this new adventure with a like-minded individual..

    Best book on the very topic might be ” The Script by Elizabeth Landers “. Except for the end which strongly hints that many if not most cheater/family abandoners end up missing their wife and children. In the last two years since same happened to me and the children, I have kept some tabulation on the topic. It seems that most dumpers will remain with the affair partner upon marriage and will not experience much remorse or regrets at all ( except for regretting the inevitable inconvenience to themselves.. toward their own hardship they appear to hold an exquisite sensitivity).

    Any others who fell for that BigBadMeanie Who Stole My Prince Away And That’s That folly?

    • I understood from the very git go that my asshole husband deserved 100 percent of the blame, not the sordid immoral faux-christian boyfriend with whom he was cheating on me. Which is to say that although I despise the OM, I still understood that the one who betrayed me was my spouse. That said, I think the tendency you describe is very common and your warning to newbies was exceptionally well explained. I bet you just helped a lot of people. Well done.

    • The idea that he has no remorse, no regrets, doesn’t miss me at all really does eat at me.

    • I blamed both from the start, but I should blame him more, but I didnt. I still hate her and am *just* raging angry and bitter at him. And over him also.

      Mine did end up missing me terribly after coldy dumping me while almost 8 months pregnant and not even helping out financially. But that’s another story. But he misses me for selfish reasons, he has the sadz, it’s not really about me, I was an excellent wife and now he knows it, but it is not about me as a person or who I am or what I need. So he is depressed, drinking and cheating on OWhore with god knows who adn where teehee.

    • It’s hard. To me yes the STBX is wholly at fault he could have stopped at any time. He knew what he was doing when he went to see her and they slept together. BUT she also knew he was married and kept up this guise of “helping him with his marriage”. She even says it to him today while he’s getting ready to move into her house. If she was such a sweet innocent lamb “helping him” when the conversation turned flirty it would have stopped. When they kissed it would have stopped. When he went to “cool things down” it would have stopped. She wouldn’t have said “Get out of my house, but I love you TOO MUCH!” And then fucked him. She is NOT a good person. And neither is he. She is fucked up and manipulative and he is a ridiculous fool. And mine WILL miss me and regret leaving! So there! ? Because if I have to think he’s happier with her it will kill me inside. Karma bus, please come soon!

  • First time comment on here. Chump Lady and all of you saved my life. I was googling things like “my partner abused me and cheated on me”. “I want to die.” “Am I an abuser”, and “My world is falling apart”. Just to name a few. I am 6 weeks out from d-day. I actually left him July 30, 2016, because he was on his way home from a trip to Minnesota and I knew when he got home he was going to assault me again. I’m 43 and have always looked atvabused women and said, “Why do they stay.” Now I know. I was raped, beaten, had staples put in my head and I couldn’t leave because I was convinced of two things. 1. I was completely unloveable and I was lucky to have him and 2. It was my fault. My fault because I was insecure, I fought back at the beginning, and because everyone loved him. Even my family. Of course, I helped perpetuate the lie that he was awesome, because I was too ashamed too admit that I would stay with someone who was physically abusing me. Somehow, (read Grace of God), I was able to leave in July. I had my son an my dog. I went to a hotel, where I was just going to stay for one night so he could calm down. That one night turned in to a week and then I decided I was going to get an apartment. After begging me to come back for a few weeks, he changed. He helped me pack and with the help of his parents returned the$15,000 he owed me. I knew something was up. While I was picking up a few last items I noticed 3 pay as you go phones under the bed. He had never stopped seeing his ex fiancée. He had taken vacations with her, talked to her for hours on the phone everyday, and bought her gifts. In the 2 and half years I had lived with him, not once had he taken me on a date and paid. No vacations. Not one single gift. Yes, he live bombed me until I moved in and then it stopped. I tried to leave 2 weeks after I moved in because my gut was telling me, “This is bad”. But my mom, the ever dutiful wife if an adulterer told me to try harder. So I did. I cleaned, I cooked, I took care of his children, I took beatings and neglect and let him do things to my body hoping he would love me. And then when I found out he was a lying cheat, something just snapped. Yes I was gone and should have just started No Contact right there. But I was in a rage. And there were hospital records of my “accidents”. I gathered as much information as I could. Evidence. Witnesses. Pictures I pulled off his computer and explained to him that he was going to do exactly what I said or he was going to prison. The first thing he did was call his parents and tell them the truth. Then he called my parents and friends who I had completely shut out of my life because of the shame I had thought was mine. He was going to tell everyone the truth. He did. I made him tell his ex fiancée the truth. But she was currently being brainwashed by him and chose to forgive. His parents wrote me another check for the rest of the money he owed me. I voided it because I never wanted the money, I wanted the truth. He had blamed me. I let myself go, I was too depressed, I did not make him feel loved, and my favorite “You were so angry”. In retrospect I should have taken the check and donated to our domestic violence shelter, but that was not to be. I’m still sad and hurt. I have nightmares and throw up when I think of what I let happen to myself. I grieve for all the relationships I sacrificed for him. I lost so much, mostly the strong independent woman I was. But I’m working hard to find her. Someday soon maybe looking people in the eye won’t be so difficult, because now I live in the truth again. The truth is horrible and painful and just disgusting, but as they say…the truth will set you free. Thank you all so much for your honesty and bravery. Thank you for helping me not to have to walk this alone. Thank you.

  • Capricorn’s story sounded really familiar. I’m long, long, long past our D-Day (July 2012), and I stayed to “heal” after his 3.5-year emotional affair. I’ve been stuck ever since. And like Tormented said, I’ve been dying a little daily since then. It’s a third marriage, about to hit the 22nd anniversary this Saturday. I’m 55. Have a low-income job, but one I like. We have a bright, happy, wonderful child in college, and she’s a total daddy’s girl. I love my husband — who I also know is my underhanded, selfish, dishonorable, disrespectful, contemptuous, callous husband.

    My health has gotten horrid, particularly with the IBS-D & the related nausea and pain I developed after his affair. I just started seeing a good health psychologist, who listened and told me we would work to adjust my medicine and diet, but he also suggested that I listen to what my body is saying, quite literally: “I’m really sick of this, and I’m losing my shit!” (My body is a clear communicator, eh? And a fairly gross comedian.)

    Everything tells me to leave. I haven’t chipped away enough of the concrete from around my feet yet. Don’t tell me I’m a coward for staying; I know. I don’t know what I’m waiting for or if I will ever leave. It helps to hear that some others have felt that immobility and overcome it, though.

    • You aren’t a coward for staying. It’s HARD! I’m poor. We made enough together but I can’t make it on my own. My STBX says he loves the whoremat and he’s moving in with her this Saturday. If he said “Just kidding!” And wanted back (before he leaves for her) I’d have him back in a second. I still love the asshole. It’s hard to let go of your shared past and the future you still dream of. You have to try to let that go and think about yourself. The path forward is hard and probably doesn’t feel as good as just staying put but if it’s effecting your health you should focus on the damage this is doing to you.

      • Howdy, Shelby.

        Us “old-timers” are getting your responses out here in the internets. I can feel your pain. I haven’t seen STBXW in a year. I did exactly what you are doing right after D-Day. Poring through the archives; finding soothing words from other survivors.

        I can’t promise you a rose garden, but things are better a ways out. I sleep through the night. I don’t have mind-movies of them fucking. I don’t wake with a start thinking of her.

        If you have any money saved for a rainy day – now is the time. Get a room until Saturday. Leave now. Call your folks. Crash on a couch. Don’t spend one more second under the same roof as him.

        Be brave. He sucks. You got this.

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