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Dear Chump Lady, I need some karma stories STAT!

karmaDear Chump Lady,

I’ve reached my lowest of lows since DDay 7 months ago. I’m going through the nastiest settlement negotiations with my philandering soon-to-be-ex. He is living with his whore (more PC name that attorneys use is “paramour”) in my home and I am displaced. He is fighting me over everything, every nickle, every dime, every investment, every stick of furniture.

I have one question and one request. First, for those who are on the other side of divorce, when do you cut bait with the negotiations? I am sick and tired of being abused by men. I want to fight back, but I want don’t want to be foolish.

Second, a request. I’ve read both of Chump Lady’s books and Runaway Husbands at your urging. Great books. I know you say not to wait for the karma bus and I understand why you say that. But…..for a sister Chump who is having a real setback, could I ask you and CN to share some karma stories? I’m phoning a friend.

Trying to be,


Dear Hopeful,

I’ll take your first question first. When to throw it in is probably a decision best left to you and your lawyer. You need an idea what you’re entitled to by law, what a fair settlement looks like, and finally how able or willing is he to agree to it. It’s to your advantage that he’s living with his (cough) “paramour.” I’m sure she’d like to finalize the divorce and usurp your position as #1 chump. Let her. And he looks awful to the court. (Do you own this house with him? How on earth is it legal that you were displaced from your own home?)

If it were me, I’d press forward and get this crap in front of a judge. I know it feels like forever. Don’t let him grind you down. You sound weary to me. I get it. If you were on your umpteenth contempt charge, if you got a court ordered settlement and he failed to pay it, if you’re dealing with years of deadbeat issues, I might say forget it. “Some money is too expensive,” as the trial lawyers say. But Hopeful, you’re at the beginning of the suck fest. Let me tell you how the divorce process goes — it SUCKS. Hang in there.

Now, to the karma issue. My official stance here is MEH. Learn to live without justice. Gain a life anyway.

Look, I know you long for him to die of the clap, or fall backwards into a vat of acid, and that you will personally thug kick the next person who says, “The best revenge is living well!”

… But (and I hope you’re not wearing steel-toed boots)… the best revenge is living well.

You’re in the middle of the divorce. You have no mental energy for meh now. You’re battling. Meh would not be appropriate. But when this shit is sorted out (and it will be… the dissolution of assets is finite), then you can give your mental energy to building a new life. A life that will blot out Schmoopie and the cheater’s. A life that is YOUR OWN, that you get to live on your terms, with your values. Keep your eye on that prize, okay?

Meanwhile, “karma” stories… (We’re also not supposed to speak of karma because — as someone inevitably points out — was it our karma to be cheated on?)

I have one. A giant four-story tree fell on his house and crushed his BMW. I refer to this tree as “The Tree of Karma.” I still lived in the same town with him back then. I was driving down the street (the former house was on a main thoroughfare) and saw the storm damage. A humungous tree down, hole in the roof? Car damage? I think that trees are wise and take the longview. This tree was plotting its demise. Maybe it missed me. (As long as I’m anthropomorphizing  trees.) I did all the gardening after all. Anyway, I’d left. I didn’t own that property any more. The tree chose its moment and crashed to ground, trying to take out the house and the cheater’s prized sports sedan with it.

It was kinda beautiful. I felt a mix of gratitude to the universe with equal parts schadenfreude. It wasn’t terribly Meh of me.

Really though, the biggest punishment my cheater can endure is being him. He sucks. He goes through life knowing he’s destroyed everyone unfortunate enough to try and get close to him. He doesn’t care. That doesn’t fill me with righteous indignation anymore, that he doesn’t care. That’s who he is. A person who doesn’t give a shit about other people. Who can’t connect. Who lacks the human empathy chip.

He did care about a tree crushing his BMW though. Maybe trees are messengers from God. Who knows?

Chump Nation — you got any karma stories? Or encouraging words for living without it?

Ask Chump Lady

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  • I have a few, but my favorite one is this: Ex-douchecanoe and OW worked together and always had a big week-long national sales conference in January at a warm location they attended each year. It was at the National Sales Conference in 2014 where they made their plan to leave their spouses. They came back, got their lawyer on board and sprung the news. At the National Sales Conference in 2015 I was salty as fuck, them getting a week “vacation” together, paid by the company, to carry on.

    Ex-douchecanoe texted me from the conference saying he was in the hospital having emergency surgery, I asked if it was his appendix, he didn’t respond. He didn’t respond for 3 days, and of course being a compassionate human I was concerned. I contacted his mom to see if she knew what was going on. She told me that he had an accessed anal polyp and after being in and out of the hospital he needed surgery on it.

    It seemed do appropriate.

    I texted him asking “how did your doctor know where to perform the surgery considering you are just one giant walking asshole.”

    Ahhh, it was my best line ever.

  • When to stop fighting over marital assets: when the cost of fighting (in money, energy, and emotion) outweighs the cost of going out into the world and recreating the wealth over which you’re fighting. Don’t think about justice (you’ll never receive it in a divorce settlement); think about what’s best for you and your health. As a good friend of mine advised about such negotiations, “Some money is just too expensive.”

    My ex-wife’s karma? Marrying one of the OM, an alcoholic, anti-social, rage-prone Internet addict with a glowering Hungarian mother in whose basement they had to live, and a family history of mental illness. #notagbacks #goodluckwiththat #perfecttogether

  • Hey Hopeful
    I reached meh before i heard of any “karma” biting my ex in the arse, but like CL, I actually did enjoy hearing (from the horse’s mouth) a story thst made me laugh. He was bemoaning his failed lovelife since I left him having just been dumped by someone who was better at picking up red flags than I was. He was telling me about another woman he’d fallen for who faked a tumor and letters from hospital saying how she needed an operation urgently. It would cost $10k (in my country it’s all free unless you choose to go private ) but she wanted to go private so he gave her the cash. She, of course, took the cash and disappeared overseas☺. Ex was devastated at her laying and cheating him (um, doesn’t that sound familiar? ??) and wondered how anyone could be so two-faced.
    It still makes me smile.
    Not doubt your ex and his tart will be bitten one day. Stay strong and I promise that one day you’ll thank goodness you’re free of them.

    • First, forget karma (see below).
      You’re at war on the battleground and you have no brain space other than survival. Your settlement will be with you for years so you need to be laser-focused on YOUR deal, and ONLY YOUR deal.
      A battle can be bruising and nasty BUT can be won.
      Do you trust your lawyer? Just because he may be male doesn’t mean he cannot fight for YOU as a person who deserves great representation and not because you’re a female.
      If you trust your lawyer, he will tell you when to stop.
      If you don’t trust your lawyer enough to have him guide you to the end, then you need a NEW lawyer.
      I got an amazing settlement and I put on blinders until that nasty, horrible fight was over. I was a fucking, unrelentless bulldog who dug up everything I could find to use against him.
      It was worth everything!
      Next, karma…right now you have to imagine how much it will kill him to give you every single cent you and your lawyer force out of him. They HATE losing!!!
      Karma will come – some Tuesday – but your settlement may allow you a life that will bring you contentment and comfort and no need for karma.
      Keep fighting and stay 100% focused.

      • Right on Rebecca. “it will kill him to give you every single cent you and your lawyer force out of him” To me this is where our writer’s two points come into focus together. The state forced me to mediate before going to court so I went and got a decent settlement. Thank you kick ass attorney who it turned out was also a chump.

        When I got home I sat down with my kid and talked about his day and 20 minutes later Narkles the Clown comes in looking bewildered. We left the mediators at the same time, in fact he left first. Guess he had to chat with the Flying Whore. I distinctly remember him saying “That was miserable. I’m exhausted.” and some other things about it being a negative experience. On the other hand I felt wonderful, elated and lighter than air. That was the first moment I realized:
        – I am so much better off without him
        – He still has to live with him, and he’s a miserable person
        – He alone has to deal with his mother (another miserable person)
        – Life starts over now and my trajectory is upward, his not so much

        I didn’t get the karma I wanted. The Flying Whore did not leave her rich husband to move across the states to marry Narkles the Clown. To me that would have been the ultimate punishment, for two cheaters to spend eternity in what (I think it was Ian called) a barbed wire monkey embrace. Instead I loved me son the best I way I know how, I went to therapy and got to work on me, I met a wonderful man who is amazing, I got a raise at work, I made new friends, and I enjoy life! His karma is that he doesn’t’ get to be a part of my joy. He is not planning vacations to paradise or spending time with friends or making dates with our son for fun outings. He’s at home being miserable, scheming on how to get one over on somebody for something because he feels he needs to be better than everyone and he feels he needs to appear better than everyone, but he’s still him, still miserable. I know that doesn’t sound like much now but once you are free and you taste the joy that has eluded you while you were with your cheater you will realize how much it truly is.

        • THIS:

          “His karma is that he doesn’t’ get to be a part of my joy. He is not planning vacations to paradise or spending time with friends or making dates with our son for fun outings. He’s at home being miserable, scheming on how to get one over on somebody for something because he feels he needs to be better than everyone and he feels he needs to appear better than everyone, but he’s still him, still miserable.”

          I couldn’t have said it better AOK… divinity or karma, Since my STBX left me for the OW, I’ve regained a savings account… taken two trips to Hawaii…go everywhere (adventure seeking) with my 11yo son… drink GOOD wine… and sleep diagonal on the bed.

          I don’t know if living well is “revenge”… but it’s damn better than feeling like a prisoner in my own home with a man that lacks empathy and the capacity to love.

      • Rebecca, how do you know you can trust your lawyer before the mediation? Are there ways to determine this bc I’m just not sure. Also, I have also dug up things to use against him, but am not sure how far to go with these. Did you let your lawyer determine what was good leverage and what was not? Would you share some types of things you used that provided for your good settlement?

        • Great post and great question. I am in huge legal wrangles with the traitor. I brought all the money, the farm is in a trust which was set up for me, MY HUSBAND, children and stepchildren. We never got married, he cheated with his ex while I was helping raise their kid and his three other kids from first wife. It turned out he hadn’t even divorced his first wife until five years after we got together. He is still having a go at the trust for nearly half of everything and he was granted 30k of legal aid a year ago to do this behind my back while we were in wreckonciliation.
          I don’t want to lose what I worked for for 20 years before I met him to a nine year fake relationship with a pathological liar. But I fear it will take years of legal battles and I still may lose. I want to fight and save the farm, carry on farming. If I give in or even if he gets a quarter of the assets it means selling, it can’t sustain that debt. But I am so exhausted I just want to fold sometimes and rest. He was offered enough to buy a house outright straight away to get it over with so I can move on, and received an advance to move out because his lawyer whinged sad sausage wanted to move out but had no money. Now he whinges I kicked him out. Still the dirty bugger borrowed $50 off me yesterday. I guess that’s why I think of folding to get rid of all the bullshit and be NC. My lawyer is not a fighter but has decided to refer this to a pit bull since the latest outrageous demand. I really don’t know how to judge if I can trust the lawyer, after all my record with evaluating people is crap!
          Karma? Well I must have been a horrible person in my previous life…
          No karma for him yet, I pray for syphilitic dementia for the traitor and the whore, penis cancer for him or at least being found by the paramedics with his dick still stuck in her arse after a heart attack and the story making the local paper. She’s from a respectable early settler family who are in fact a pack of hyenas Jesus cheaters and molesters. Would love them to be exposed. Clearly I am giving this too much mental real estate.

          • Kiwi chump,
            I always envisioned New Zealand as a peaceful paradise. But I guess people are shits all over the world. I am so sorry.

            I understand so deeply psychological attachment to a piece of land. I don’t know ANYTHING about New Zealand law, but I do know that the better your lawyer, the more connected he or she is, the better your outcome. Maybe do whatever it takes to go for the extreme aggressive attorney who other lawyers fear.

            Do NOT loan him anymore money! $50 bucks is a lot of money. Why did you loan him any money?

            You were NOT a horrible person in a previous life. The concept of Karma…well it stems from the Hindu religion. No offense to anyone, but no one can talk to a dung beetle, so we will never know if the ones crawling in poop ARE Ted Bundy or Stalin.

            No, I don’t think you can help but give it space your head. This is your life. What is his bottom line…What does he want you to do? Sell the farm, give him his half and go live with this ho bag? Is that his deal breaker?

            • What is his bottom line? Now THAT is a good question.

              Like all of you, I was getting nowhere with financial settlement. My attorney was good, but under the very misguided NSW “no-fault” laws, similar to California, I was getting nowhere fast.

              One big reason I was getting nowhere was because my narcissist didn’t like me standing up for myself. How DARE I take him to court to fight for my half of what I was entitled to? Now that I’d done that, he was going to have to fight me on it. (Yes, in true Narc fashion, apparently his cheating and my reaction to it were all my fault and I was evil and must be punished…WTF).

              Anyway, I finally realized I had to move forward. If not with settlement, then with my life going forward. I left Australia, moved back to my home country and back to California, to start my own life, and chose to battle the rest from a distance.

              It was while I was putting my life back together that The Universe conspired to help. I was networking, trying to get a job in Project Management, and went to an industry event with a speaker who was an expert on negotiation.

              He changed my life when he started talking about how if you are trying to negotiate and it is not working, you need to start looking outside the obvious. Sometimes the thing that stops a successful negotiation is more intangible and emotional, rather than obvious and financial. Ask them what it is they need to do the deal. Think about what could be stopping them.

              Those things kept turning over in my mind. What was it my narc needed to finally settle? Well… he needed to feel in charge. To feel powerful, like he was controlling things.

              I had been hanging on to my car for dear life. It was the one thing that was under only my name, that he was unable to touch.

              I asked myself, how much of our assets do I really need to start over, and what can I offer him to make him feel like he “won”?

              I rejigged my settlement number only taking it down ever so slightly. And I told him I’d throw in my car. (The truth was that I needed to get rid of the car anyway. I was now in another country and the car was with a friend).

              Two days after the offer, the lawyers were drawing up court papers.

              The funny thing was that the narc really didn’t care about my car. He had his own car that I know he preferred to drive. But his bottom line was to feel like he was winning in some way, by getting his hands on the one thing I had total control of. As soon as I found his bottom line and did something about it, I was free.

              The truth was that in the end, I got nearly exactly what I wanted out of the settlement, and certainly enough to buy a house and start a new life free from that jerk.

              He liked to be passive aggressive. It wouldn’t surprise me if my car went straight to his 19 year old whore. The point is, I will never know anyway, because I’m in another country free from him. But if it did, she got a crappy 5 year old Volkswagen Tiguan and a fat, 53 year old narc loser, while I got freedom. So who cares?

              I learned important lessons from this. I was hanging on to that car in some attempt to force some negativity on him. Soon as I let that go, instead of revenge or karma, I got settlement. That settlement led to me starting a new life and living well. That living well WAS, as it turns out, the best karma!

              Find their bottom line. Look forward to a narc free future, and let the rest go. You will thank yourself for it!

          • Kiwichump,

            Not from NZ, but if you brought the money and he never satisfied the terms of the trust by marrying you, he should be told to fuck off. Promptly.

            • Sylvia and Survivor, thank you. NZ is great and laid back but in some respects it is too laid back. NZ family law does not distinguish between a de facto relationship and a marriage. It is not in tune with common sense as was demonstrated a couple of years ago when the battle for same sex marriage was won. This proved to me that EVERYONE believes there is a huge difference between a de facto relationship and a marriage. That why the Gay and Lesbian movement fought so hard for the right to marry. Vows, lifelong commitment, in sickness and in health. So I do intend to fight and put this argument forward. We were not married, despite my best efforts to make this happen. And everything was set up with a view to marriage. Everyone I talk to believes he should be told to fuck off, that’s the layman’s view, but in fact it’s open slather on partners as far as the law is concerned. I wish there was an easy way out. Also the traitor is an extremely vindictive character who now wants to punish me for what he has done to fuck up his life once again. He enjoys playing bush lawyer. He’s found a lawyer who has a diploma in counselling, and is playing the victim of reverse sexism. So she’s all fangs fighting for him and wanting to make a name for herself because she is young. As mad as he is, he is still cunning. I had no idea how cunning and devious until last year. So it won’t be easy and it won’t be quick and today’s post asks an important question for me, what price to move on and never have to deal with the bastard again. His bottom line financially is 45% of everything, his true bottom line is to crush me because I saw what he is and I spoke out. He will only be satisfied if I crumble. I haven’t, in fact I surprise myself every day by coping with the farm and a job in a rest home, and I am getting things into a much better shape than he did. That makes his shortcomings more obvious to the neighbours so I must be forced off the farm. Then he’ll be able to say I couldn’t cope without him.
              Sylvia I won’t lend him money again, I got a lecture from his sister in law for that last night. He caught me off guard.

              • kiwi, I’d have someone have a good look at his young lawyer. She could be his Plan B. Hence her enthusiasm for stripping you of your assets. And she’ll be feeling like dirt when he doesn’t follow through on their plans after she hands over your money to him. Yes, he can be that large of a pig, so check it out if you can. If it’s an inappropriate relationship, you might be able to get her off the job. Good luck to you.

              • Kiwichump. What are the terms of your trust? Is this your family trust that was set up by you? Who are the beneficiaries, the trustees, and who has power of appointment? I’m a Kiwi and found myself on the losing side of a family trust set up to protect assets for our children. I was neither a trustee, nor a beneficiary despite working for no salary in it for over 25 years. However, we were able to make some changes. I admit this was much easier early in the piece, and he was completely remorseful and guiltily doing most of what I demanded. Because we don’t legally own our own assets (held in trust for the beneficiaries of said trust) splitting has been fraught with issues about how to continue to trade – also farming – without losing the assets that are not legally ours despite us contributing every cent of it. Trusts are a nightmare. But can be broken. You will need anot expert in the field in order to unpick it all. I am no lawyer, but there are ways to redress the balance. You will very likely end up with less than you entered with, but I am interested in the terms of this trust considering the beneficiaries appear to be non-biological children? I am now a trustee of the trust and got rid of his mother (when she was in shock at her son’s arseholery) as a trustee, and removed power of appointment from her. If you can argue intentions here (on both sides) you may have a little more wriggle room within the relationship property laws as they stand. I also never married, never wanted that piece of paper, but realised that once that three years was up, what was the damn difference? 28 years later, and my thoughts about only being together because we truly loved, trusted and shared everything was just as big a crock of shit as so many of the marriages here. I really thought we had it made. So close. So in love. So fucking hot for each other. So honest and loving. So lucky. A golden couple. God I loved that man! However, as the beer ad goes, Yeah, right.

              • I think in New Zealand the safest way to tie up assets from relationship property is to get a contracting out agreement prior to the 3 years specifying what is separate property and what is relationship property. Seems to be safer than trusts these days.

              • Trying to reply to Horsercuming. All the money came from me, earned in the 20+ years before I met him. 2 years into the relationship we got engaged and decided to go farming full time so I sold my farmlet, and my house, left my job, bought this farm in the trust, stock and plant not in the trust. Traitor said he never wanted any of my money. Justine, I was an idiot not to do a relationship property agreement. I have no objections to him getting the full value of the stock and plant. That was my first offer when he said he wanted to separate. Take over the farm business and run it for yourself, I’ll help out a few days a week and youngest son who loves the farm can gradually take over in about ten years. He procrastinated then said it’s too much work and not enough money. It had supported all of us for the past 7 years but suddenly isn’t good enough. Then he demanded all the trust papers and accounts, disclosure. Fine, he got them, but the irony is he always had access to all of it in the farm office, and we always met with the accountant together, he is also the farm consultant, that was the traitor’s idea btw. My lawyer advised me early on to get the whole thing over with quickly quickly because he would just try to make my life hell, so the trustees, the law firm and I, offered half the value of the homestead and half the equity in the stock and plant. Nothing from him for 4 months and he came back wanting nearly half of everything. I am getting a specialist lawyer now, recommended by the law firm, haven’t met with him yet.
                Survivor, I don’t think his young lawyer is his plan B, or C since he was cheating with his ex and I believe they are still together. He is very good at dazzling women and persuading them he is a feminist victim of reverse sexism. It worked with me.
                If you have battled through trust issues in NZ recently you will be aware of Clayton v. Clayton. This is the game changer, everyone is having a go at trusts AND even relationship property agreements are not safe. They had one, hubby honoured it and offered 30x more than wife had signed up for and she still won half of everything – which was in trusts- after a 10 year court battle. Every lawyer in the country is salivating.
                I really appreciate you chumps answering and making suggestions. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

        • Please note that this response is only my personal opinion and not advice:
          I would NEVER have mediated my divorce!
          This chump did try mediation because I didn’t know what I was up against. When he refused to turn over some documents, my gut woke up and I went to a lawyer.
          My ex stupidly allowed me to meet privately with the former mediator (yes, you would need their permission). The mediator told me to go find the toughest barracuda lawyer I could find – not afford – and find a way to hire them.
          There were a few pieces of info that I had to keep shoving under the lawyer’s nose until it made sense to her that they were important to use.
          There were other things that she convinced me didn’t matter.
          You have to be very proactive AND be a partner in the process!

    • This is GREAT! They always get so damned indignant when someone else does the same BS to them. Love this karma story!

    • You ladies give me energy to get through a day. I think finding this site was the only thing I was going to find comfort in. Other mom sites and crap just make me more angry. I purchased CL book and should I also read runaway husbands? Who is the author.

      Let’s just say I am one more cat away from becoming a 37 year old cranky neighborhood basket case. I even wore my house robe out the other night to have a cig and was like, “Don’t judge me people! I have tried and tried to trust people.” The only thing I trust at this point is my freaking cat that peed on my face while I was sleeping one night. At least she is honest with her actions.

  • Hopeful, I know how exhausted from the cruelly unfair situation. I blame Hollywood for our perception that the people that are good come out on top and the meanies get splashed with a puddle of mud before the credits roll. These two idiots may still be together for 20 more years until the karma train pulls into the station. Don’t hold your breath.
    As far as court, time to buckle down and fight for what’s fair. If your passive and give away more than your fair share, after the divorce is finalized it will continue to bug the ever loving crap out of you when you think of the basic things you were entitled to that you didn’t stand up and demand. This doesn’t mean squabbling over every nickle and dime. Get what you deserve and puck your battles.
    The moment you stop caring about getting justice (again, don’t hold your breath, these narcs always seem to land on their feet and have zero remorse or shame) is the moment YOU win. I know how much that sucks…I KNOW!!
    You want to REALLY drive them crazy? Stop caring. Accept that they’ll get away with this charade far longer than you’d ever expect. Once you after this, you can put the focus back on you.
    But personally, I am looking forward to the karma stories on here for my own entertainment. Wish I had something more inspiring to put for you, I’m really sorry you’re having to endure this nightmare hell. Hugs.

  • No karma here. Ex is doing great. He is about to buy a house. He is surrounded by his family and friends and fuckbuddies. His life is going well.
    I am not in as great a place. However, I realize how deeply unhappy I was when we were married. I vividly remember feeling like dying every day. It was torment. I do believe I am better emotionally without him. Also, my blood pressure is down and I don’t have heart palpitations anymore. I still worry about some things but at least I am not headed to the ER with a racing heart.
    Divorce will finally happen. You will then be able to recover.

    • Supreme Chump, many of us here have similar stories of how our health miraculously improved post divorce/separation. My weight dropped. My muscles stopped aching. My life sustaining medication was cut by one third. I sleep well. People say I look younger. It’s amazing to feel this good after 20 years of living in the mindfuck.

      • I know of at least two women that died from cancer and I wholeheartedly believe it was due to being married to dysfunctional narcs. Both women (they did not know each other) worked extremely hard on putting up a front that everything was wonderful with their marriage and family. One even followed along with her narc when he insulted or attacked people. He had the typical kiss up kick down mentality and she went along with his dysfunctional program. She initially had breast cancer, which she survived. You would have thought she would reflect and change her ways a bit. Nope. A few years later the cancer came back gangbusters in her spine, brain and bones. She held on for 3 years and just passed away a few months ago. Brutal. Within a month of her death he had a new sports vehicle and in the dating pool. Yeah, he really grieved………To sum it up is it really worth living with these defects and making nice? I don’t think so

        • Hi, KB22 –

          I wholeheartedly believe that being married to a cheater (even though I didn’t know he was a cheater) and putting so much energy into appearances was at least partially responsible for my 2 bouts with brain cancer. My first tumor was discovered 4 months post DDay. My second one 4 years into wreckonciliation. I discovered him back on escort sites 12 days after my second craniotomy. Filed for divorce with 65 staples in my head. I’ve had a clean bill of health since filing!!! Living with cheaters affects us in ways we can’t even comprehend.

          • So glad to hear that you are cancer free! Even when these defects aren’t cheating, they are the cause of so much work and stress. Having to watch what you say, what you wear, always waiting for the other shoe to drop will take its toll. So many of us are “pleasers” and will do anything not to make the defects unhappy. I know of one guy that cheated on his first wife, left her and their kids for a complete skank. It was so public (smallish town) and this woman still tried to be in his good graces, even long after the kids reached adulthood. Absolutely pathetic. He just dumped the skank (years later) set her up and had her arrested. His discards are brutal but both of these women would take him back in a New York second. Just floors me.

          • I am so glad you are happy and free. I wouldn’t wish living with a cheater on my worst enemy. It was the worst years of my life. I didn’t have the strength to kick him out. I kept hoping he would come back to the marriage. Thank goodness he didn’t because he isn’t worthy of me nor could he ever be. The most satisfying thing I said to the OW was, “I won because you have him and I don’t.

      • I definitely look younger and happier since our divorce. I was going through some old pictures yesterday and was surprised at how worn out I looked a few years before D-day. I remember feeling like a shell of the person I used to be when that picture was taken. I was pulled in a hundred different directions back then.

        Now, I feel like I’m connected to the person I used to be in college before I got married. Somehow I lost her along the way. It’s good to have her back.

      • I have also lost weight , feel healthier and look younger –
        Meanwhile OW (the main one anyway cause there is also a harem) has deteriorated in looks and put on weight keeping up with his drinking/partying
        Hurray for that!! It’s karma in itself
        Keep your chin up for meh!! Concentrate on you xxx

  • Be careful what you ask for. My STBX was diagnosed with prostate cancer a year after DDay. His health is failing, heart condition, high cholesterol, diabetes and cancer. He is only 55 years old. He is the father of my two kids and it pains me to think that they may not have a grandfather for their future children.

  • Hopeful, consult your attorney of course, but if you could stand it then move back into your house and stay there until the settlement is signed. I don’t know of any state where you can be forced to leave the marital home. In fact exasshole tormented me for many months because he knew his rights and refused to live elsewhere. Since he had no job I couldn’t afford to move and cover bills at my house so I stayed.

    I got no real karma stories, dude manages to escape it. Saddam would have dragged out settlement negotiations for years, after a few months I filed for fault. Only good karma came after I filed. He refused to do discovery. Judge slapped him with contempt of court, since he was on probation for DUI it meant he was going to jail. So he settled in record time, because, jail is the one thing he’s afraid of…

  • A true tree revenge. How very Walden.
    My cheater karma story isn’t anywhere near as fun.
    I (very fortunately) got the house AND the vacation property, primary custody of the kids and a fair settlement- the law actually somewhat worked in my case (not true for everyone) because he was in a huge hurry to start his new life with his longtime girlfriend.
    Now she’s his full time pain in the ass, they have no money, both lost in court and didn’t get their kids full time (her ex is a lawyer) and she spends every waking moment yelling at him that he “can’t leave his past behind and focus on their future together”.
    It was a long hard slog getting where I am, and court flat out sucked. My lawyer cost a damn fortune BUT when I saw the result , I decided it was worth it.
    Karma comes in many strange ways. At first I wanted to see their names on a mafia hit list, or hear they were lost at sea. But I changed my tune when I realized my karma bus gently rolled into town and didn’t hit anybody , but it doled out some legal justice and took off.

    I still like CL’s tree story though. Lol

  • Hopeful — Hang in there! I agree with everything CL has said. My divorce took nearly 3 years and it was only because I stretched it out while watching his moves. When it all finally ended I was no longer emotional and much more practical and logical. I had already bought my own apartment and moved. I kept 99% of the friends we’d had. The kids were happy.

    In 2017 he will be obligated to pay me some spousal support but I’m not holding my breath and luckily I have my own job and am a good saver.

    But for him I think the karma bus is rolling…. he moved his “fiancé” into his very expensive NY apartment last October 2015 and she got a job working in a hospital 45 minutes away and because of being the new hire, she worked grunt shifts. He flaunted her at our church (and my girls and I stopped attending). And then July 2016, he up and moved her back to the farm in Indiana where he said he was caring for his ailing mother and father. However, they’d been in Michigan since June. The real reason — he can’t afford to live in NY anymore and pay off the kids student loans (he co-signed – YES!). So he and Boo-Boo moved back to the farm and are living with mommy and daddy and she had to get another job in another hospital in another city and his prospects for work at age 60 are much slimmer. Will I get any money out of this arrangement? Probably not, but I’m happy and have reach the state where what he says and does doesn’t hurt me any longer.

    It does get better but it takes you and your lawyer and, in my case, girlfriends who kept me laughing and realizing there are great things happening for me!

  • I have a similar desire for karma…
    It’s hard to focus on building a life you love when your current life is crumbling – and you had NO WARNING OR TIME TO PREPARE
    Meanwhile our cowardly cheaters often don’t pull the trigger until they have their new lives with the AP all “set up.” Sitting amidst the rubble with your devastated children and pets – watching the cheater’s back as they waltz off into a new life seems so unfair and just piles crazy on top of the crazy.
    For most of us, the lost love and respect of family, friends and colleagues from an affair (vs. respectfully working on or exiting the marriage) would be karma enough – but cheaters don’t seem care about these things.
    So Hopeful – stay hopeful about your new life ! Don’t look back and don’t give him your power by thinking about him.
    And rest assured — if i ever get my dream job driving the karma bus , I’ll email and ask you where to stop 🙂 hugs

    • Tired Chump, I am sure karma (payback) will come, it always does, maybe not at the time you were hoping for but it comes. I remember your situation and think it speaks volumes of how every chump should move quickly and not hang on to “wait & see” how things pan out. Do not fall for a cheater’s stalling tactics. I know the shock can be debilitating, deer in headlights sort of reaction (or inaction) but honestly there should be courses or seminars available online on how to proceed quickly after the affair is discovered even though your world has crashed. Again, the karma will come for your cheater, but you already sound so much stronger than you were a year ago.

    • “It’s hard to focus on building a life you love when your current life is crumbling – and you had NO WARNING OR TIME TO PREPARE
      Meanwhile our cowardly cheaters often don’t pull the trigger until they have their new lives with the AP all “set up.” Sitting amidst the rubble with your devastated children and pets – watching the cheater’s back as they waltz off into a new life seems so unfair and just piles crazy on top of the crazy”.

      THIS!!! Describes exactly what it feels like when your spouse runs off. They’re super-duper happy while your ailing and confused. Horrible feeling, but thank God it doesn’t last forever.

      He filed for divorce and it was over within 2 months. His motivation actually worked to my financial advantage. Moved right in with Schmoopie. My XH was engaged to whore within a year, and then married her. They wed in a low budget “resort” hotel room. No one attended the wedding. His life will never be as good as the life we shared together. His finances are beginning to crumble thanks to Schmoopie’s demands and his continued stupidity. She has a penchant for married men (Her first husband was also married when she became his soulmate. He was smart enough not to put her skeezing ass on his house. Their affair-age lasted 2 years). My XH listed her on the house – she paid nothing toward their home. They work together, so when it fails, it should be epic.

      It’s been 3 years, and yes, I am living well. I’ve got someone that seems to have character (also way smarter and more successful than my XH). I purchased my own home and Dr New Guy has been beyond helpful. We’re planning some amazing trips together and I’m really feeling pretty darned good!

      • Thats exactly what happened to me as well literally. They walk out into the new life they and family and frenemies help them set up.
        They leave behind not only us but the children who just cant comprehend what has happened. That is what makes me seeth with anger when I look back on that time in our lives and the absolute complete abscence of empathy for anyone especially children.
        I will never wipe that moment in time out of my memory it was like watching a murder.
        The people who supported her and the things they did to me and my children based on how she gaslighted me I hold absolute contempt for them and hope karma gives them a taste of their own medicine one day but I will never see it.

        • I don’t know if I missed you, soyouseeit2, or if you’re new around here. It is a murder. She murdered your love, and your trust. I hope you are burying the corpse with your soul intact. Post more here!

  • I totally get the overwhelming desire for karma to bite.I waited yeeeaaaars for it to happen and now he’s in the process of discarding OW for her replacement.Surprise,surprise….the lifelong philanderer did not reform for OW and Hopeful,neither will yours.Your present misery will eventually be hers as surely as night follows day.There is no true love in the life of a philanderer.Only the next victim.

  • About a month after he left, his “paramour” damaged his schnitzel so badly during sex that he had to be circumcised. While he was in recovery, she dumped him.

  • He moved out to be with his AP and she dumped him a week later! He then wanted back…, hell NO! Guess that greener grass was AstroTurf!

  • A fuller and better life is truly the best revenge. My ex-wife would hound me about my struggling career launch. Today, I am at the top of my field, by the grace of God and my hard work.

  • My ex cheated…sexually and financially. I got away from him by paying 25K to alimony (we were married 5 years). In exchange, I got house, 70% custody, and no dipping into my retirement. He left our kids in a locked hot car…then went after sole custody. Because leaving your kids to die makes sense. And always always he wins popularity contests. It’s not cool to talk about someone being an ass. We have outgrown consequences societally.

    He married wife #4 and popped out another kid. I miscarried our third one during the stress if the break up.

    So I get the pain you’re in.

    As I sit here excited my tweeners come back today and watching our foster kittens romp around my bed, I think about what he doesn’t get. These peeps are into easy. Glittery. Shallow. I put the Money I saved not having to support him into travel. Alaska. Grand canyon. Outer banks. Disney. We go fun places. We even just went on a weekend jaunt up to Pecos. We go with friends. I don’t have the 10K Facebook friends he has, but I have friends who cleaned my house for me after I broke my arm. He us an artist…but he sort of sucks. Its a cause for celebration when he places 3rd at the state fair. I’m.a psychologist who works with homeless veterans. I get 3 or 4 people a week who tell me that I really helped them.

    So I get it, but hang in there. Life is amazing and resilient. Do the things that heal you and someday you can look at him and just. Not. Care. He will never care about how you live your life. He does not form human attachments. My ex collects friends like baseball cards. And if they want to be used that way, who cares. Your job is to realize if he takes the house, you get to pick your awesome house. And make it totally yours. Enjoy the process of developing your life. Grieve and let go. The universe will unfold accordingly.

    • “He’s an artist, but he sort of sucks”
      I just spit out my coffee. My ex AND his gal are “musicians” – even thought neither can sing and he barely plays an instrument. Someone recently said they committed folk crimes against humanity.
      I’m big on trips with the kids, family and friends too. So much fun and so many memories made without an insane narcissist to dampen our good time.

      • A musician who can’t play music.

        I love these guys. With the right perspective they are funny as shit.

        Recently my kid decided she wanted to try drumming. As the actual patent, I pay for the drums, take her to lessons, etc. My ex hubs narc sister (also an artist…she paints sexy skeletons as part of the day of the dead craze…also a huge narc…so glittery sexy undead subjects are super appropriate) said to my daughter she gets her enjoyment of drumming from some long list cousin on their side. #takingcreditfor adrumlesson #dayoftgedeadbeat

        • I love day of the deadbeat hashtag!

          In my book, I used this stereotype with the last letter — the OM is the “third-most celebrated singer-songwriter in Ferndale, Michigan.”

          I think “talent” can just be another form of narc grandiosity.

          • Lmao. Mine is the most celebrated artist of an obscure art form in new mexico. His sisters dead art is used to sell lottery tickets and alcohol.

            Can you do a Friday fun dayofthedeadbeat around Halloween for me? It will be my first year ever not getting to trick or treat with kiddos and as a bonus shit sandwich the stepmom who was hitting them gets to reintegrate with them that day too (admittedly after two years of jumping through hoops). So I’d love to hear deadbeat parent stories and how fellow chumps sailed through.

            The kids will be fine. 1/2 way there 😉

          • Oh yeah! Whore’s is chock full of these ‘talented and sooo spiritual, special people’. They are all sooo unique and the sun shines out of their arses at the perfect angle to illuminate us. What a privilege to be allowed to be shat on by these luminaries.

            • They are everywhere. My ex fancied himself a musician though tone deaf and unable to carry a beat. The BIL learned through his spiritualist that he is indeed an Egyptian warrior poet prince or some such hogwash. It’s about being special, at least in their minds.

  • I agree with Chump Lady, the biggest karma for cheaters is being their own nasty lying cheating fucked up loser selves. And if they can be with the person they cheated with, who is also a nasty lying cheating fucked up loser too, so much the better. They are not good people, they aren’t any of the things they and the cheater friendly society would like you to believe they are. They are losers. The only thing that gives their narrative that they are anything good is people who believe it. Don’t be one of those people, lol. Fight the good fight and let all cheaters know what you really think of them. As they say down south, they are trashy and common. Never forget that for a second.

    • Can I get an Amen!!!
      Friends, I live near West Palm Beach Florida and I’m prepping for a Catagory 4 hurricane this morning. I went to my shed the last couple days to discover that the wing nuts to hold my shutters on my house and my generator are both gone. Guess who took them?
      You can’t get either of these within 500 miles since this thing shifted toward Fl.
      Why would he do this you ask?
      1. Because he’s an asshole.
      2. Because he lives in a shitty rental with his affair partner and her young kids and I’m sure they will need power after this thing. Screw that HIS kids live here.
      3. Because he’s pissed off I got a dime in the divorce and took every scrap he could from this house when he moved to “stick it to me” for getting what I deserved in tbe divorce.
      4. Because I wasn’t paying attention when he moved or since….its been a decade since we’ve had a storm that would inspire me to buy more than wine to prepare for it. Lesson learned.
      5. See # 1.
      So, would I LOVE him to get hit by the karma bus…or an actual bus?? Hell yes.
      Think I will make one phone call to him to get in his ass about any of this ? Fuck no!! I refuse to give them the satisfaction.

      • Paintwidow be safe. I live on the west coast of florida. I feel you. What an ass taking your bolts. Stupid fuck. Why why why do they do such shitty petty things. Please let us know you came through this ok. Sending my care and strength there to help keep you safe.

      • These disordered fucktards are so predictably awful. I’m sorry though, Paintwidow. That’s a new low, leaving you and his children without storm protections.

      • Paintwidow, that sucks. I am in south west Georgia, if you need a place to ride out this storm and by new bolts and a generator. I , too, had the farm generator taken which I need in a storm. Yes#1amd 5 on your post.

      • Good luck today with the hurricane, I hope it only hits his house and no one else’s especially not yours.

      • Paint widow,

        Is there any way you could work a ZIP TIE throw the hole and then attach it to the shutter where the bolts should go? Then yank the hell out of it with all of your might?

        I have used that once in a high wind situation and it worked so well. Those zip ties are almost impossible to break unless you cut them.

        WHAT AN ASSHOLE. Scrounging around in your worksheet…stealing. Disgusting.

  • The idea of “karma” implies that the chump and cheater are working from the same value system, so the chump can see something “bad” happen to the cheater, and believe that the cheater gets his/her comeuppance.

    But that’s not how it works.

    The cheater has already operated from a different value system, and will continue to do so.

    He/she is not ashamed to be a cheater, shack up with the AP, or have a baby with the AP, or pilfer the chump’s savings, or mess with the kids, etc.

    And if it doesn’t work out with the AP, or something else goes wrong in his/her life, he/she will have a rationalization why it didn’t work. That rationalization may blame the AP, but it will not state, “I am a fool and now have to deal with the consequences of my poor decisions.”

    Instead, it will be the same sparkly bullshit that cheaters tell themselves over and over again: Any problems that they have are someone else’s fault, and they are amazing so the problems are no big deal. They don’t wallow in sadness or regret, even when called for. Instead, they plow ahead, with little-to-no thought about their next step, the ramifications of their actions, or any serious self-reflection.

    Karma requires the current sufferer to agree that he’s being punished for past sins….or at least admit that something has gone seriously wrong in his life. But cheaters would never admit to that.

    From the outside, we may look at their lives and say, “Ha! Well, that’s karma!”

    But them? They think they are amazing, and their lives are amazing. It’s their birthday, and it’s one big dance party, and the disco ball never stops spinning.

    • JC, you have it totally right! My ex could be hit by the biggest karma bus ever, and for him, it would be a) somebody else’s fault, b) an opportunity to be a sad sausage (and use that to rook in another kind-hearted chump), and c) time to move on, start a new life somewhere new with someone new, and business as usual!

      • They have a totally different selfish perspective. I think the kharma is more useful to think about when you connect it to the original beliefs in reincarnation. Basically, we are all stuck in the same cycle until we get it. Then you get to move on. In that belief system, they will be cheating as intelligent lobster people or cockroaches or whatever humans have morphed into billions of years from now while we have all moved to nirvana, which I define as eternal meh.

      • OMG!! Right??
        You guys nailed it. He could come home and find the AP in bed with his best friend and then find out she gave him crabs and took all his money and he STILL would think it was because her world wasn’t ready for the greatness that was him. Not all of us have what it takes to be in the presence of all that awesomeness…..he’ll just keep looking, she’s out there somewhere.
        By now she’s getting it that everytime he takes out the trash (like he would…lol) he will expect a parade in his honor. Maybe that’s the karma…..that shit was exhausting.

    • Well put. These defects don’t have a clue that life is biting them in the ass or that their lives are pathetic and shallow. Something karma wise happens and they just brush it off and go about their merry way. Never give it a thought. However, they age, as we all do, but with them age is devastating. One example: The OW they left you for that was 15 to 20 years younger when they were in their 40’s is now in HER 40’s and just no longer the sexy young thing when they met. She is old by his standards whether he is 60 or 70 years of age. He deserves better you see but unless he is richer than Rockefeller (usually not the case) he is now stuck with this over the hill piece of trash. Let’s not forget that the OW is now in her 40’s and if she persists on acting like a sexy young thing, well think of a “Whatever happened to Baby Jane” scenario. And this my friends is where the entertainment begins.

      • Amen! A friend of mine was married to a man seven years older than her. She made him feel old, so he dumped her for a teenager.

      • “”And this my friends is where the entertainment begins…””

        HAHAHAHA!! I KNOW my ex whore and I KNOW this will happen to her..maybe not this year or the next but it will!

    • JC, you nailed it. That’s the sad but true interior life of these fuckwits.

      But there’s still entertainment value for us. Cheese Fries’s fury at the divorce settlement was priceless. 😉

    • What you said. They don’t sit wringing their hands. That is what we chumps do. They will make no connection between any ‘misfortune’ and the hurt they cause us. And why should they? Like you said they have already blamed us on the way out. Bet you they will continue to blame us.

      As for karma. My stbx cheated on me with his ex. She then cheated on him with another. Thought he’d learned his lesson then but no. I know people who have left marriages having cheated. The new relationship looks flashy and enviable…at first but it is misery. They do trade one misery for another.
      My aunt had an affair with a married man. Over thirty years later they are still together but they have no friends. He is so paranoid he hardly goes out. They lie to their son. In his thirties he is finding out the extent of their lies and has little to do with them. The adulterer’s children from his first marriage don’t speak to him. The two of them virtually live as recluses.
      My other aunt married a man who was a philanderer though she was not the other woman. He has verbally emotionally and psychologically abused her for over 30 years with his awful temper. He charms others…not me.
      There are others and while all do not break up , there are not happy unions by any stretch of the imagination.
      I can close my eyes and know that my stbx will be no better off. Some of these cheats are content to keep floating along till they run out of steam and need a carer.
      I would conclude thus: don’t make someone a priority if you are only an option for them. Despair…but not for too long. Be free! Be happy!

      • Stbx left in a blaze of glory! He was going to be awesome. Two weeks later he wanted back in. Um the side piece didn’t work out. Three months later he wanted back eleven months later he wanted back in…um …no. no on had snapped his awesome ass up.

    • …..disco ball never stops spinning – that is soo…funny JC. Although I’m new here I’ve posted before on how justice really did seem to slap down my slimeball. From beautiful big house, successful business and two Mercs to shitty rental, low paid job, bankruptcy and living alone. Plus best of all as CL says he still had to be him and suffer his early erectile dysfunction problems ????. I kept waiting for the comparison between his old/new life to strike him but no his “I don’t believe in being negative” Royal Highness didn’t have an ounce of regret, reflection or insight. His disco ball still hadn’t stopped spinning.

  • Karma story, boy to I have a doozy…
    Tinman made his exit for the arms of the OW in May of last year. They promptly bought a business together (with her money, she re-mortgaged her house 2 months later to buy the business that was his “dream”), he immediately started bragging about how awesome it was and how wonderful she was. Telling me that she was the best thing that ever happened to him (this is despite us having 2 kids together… yup), and that he finally has his dream life…. Well in May of this year (2 days in fact shy of the D-Day anniversary) the business burnt to the ground, which sounded like the karma bus arriving but wait for it…. another 3 months down the track and he has just been arrested for setting fire to this wonderful awesome fantastic business, he has been shamed in the press from here to kingdom come, his reputation is in tatters, the OW is likely to lose everything because she is mortgaged to the hilt for the business (which I do actually feel bad about because aside from the whole man stealing thing she seems like a decent sort of person) and he is currently sitting in jail awaiting trial. Now tell me that isn’t karma.

    BUT and here is the big but, While I am not going to say I had reached the ultimate level of meh I had made serious progress. I had let go of chasing him for child support, I had made peace with him not visiting the kids and was pretty much over the concept of him ignoring their phone calls to him and never calling them.

    We had an argument about a month after the fire when he visited the kids and started making grand promises to the older child about more visits and calls, I raked him over the coals for promising things he wasn’t going to follow through on, his response was to call me a slut and attempt to say that “everyone was talking about how slutty you are” 6 months earlier I would have flown into a rage and defended my honour. Instead, I didn’t feel anything except amusement and told him that it was none of his business who I was sleeping with or how often. When that didn’t get a rise he switched to telling me that he was so sorry that the OW makes him happier than I ever did – I did an internal check because again 6 months earlier that would have had me on my knees, but nope, no response it honestly didn’t bother me. So that’s what I said, “I am glad that she makes you happy because hopefully it means that I will be able to do the same thing and meet someone special someday soon”… he HATED that. Then came the vague criticisms about my parenting, again he struck out. I realised at that point that he had little to no leverage against me anymore. That was an AWESOME place to be. It is still an AWESOME place to be. Don’t get me wrong I am following the criminal proceedings that are being brought against him but there is little satisfaction or glee in it, more of a wondering first how did I never see that side of him before and secondly wanting to know exactly what to tell our kids. But reaching MEH was and is so much more satisfying than anything karma could do to him.

  • The Cluster Fuck B Sociopath is a human karma magnet. Everything he touches turns to shit. I got a look at him last night, he is back to his soul sucking black hatred of the world. It’s fascinating how fast the honeymoon high with Cock Slobber wore off when this chump didn’t GIVE A FUCK ANYMORE. Losing me is his karma, and he will never have my caliber of female again in his lifetime. He is such a miserable bastard to be around. Poor Cock Slobber probably can’t figure out what happened to her love bombing, charming, fun boyfriend??? Ha ha ha. Absolutely no refunds Cock Slobber?

  • I’m four years from D-day and two years post acrimonious divorce. I know just where you are: in the middle of the shit-storm. You can’t believe this has happened and you are outraged at the injustice. You are being worn down financially and emotionally and it feels like it will never end.

    Here’s what I can offer:

    My XW fought over every damned thing. She refused to sign unless…she got the TV. Ok, I gave her the TV. Then she refused to sign until she got my Lazy Boy. Ok, I gave her the Lazy Boy. And in the end she still wouldn’t sign until I told my attorney “Enough.” And she signed literally outside the courtroom. So yes, get this thing in front of a judge and odds are your STBX will, like my XW, shit his pants and sign. Signature on the dotted line. That’s what you want.

    You want karma? I don’t believe in it in a supernatural sense, but I do believe in disordered people pushing their luck with their shit life skills so eventually it will arrive. Maybe not in one dramatic fell swoop, but incrementally.

    Ok, get to the good stuff, right? Ok:

    XW’s second attorney sued her. She went broke. The other two attorneys refused to represent her.
    She’s put on a lot of weight.
    She was fired from five jobs.
    She paid me spousal support.
    She pays me child support.
    She got engaged to AP, then a few months ago came to me crying that her engagement is off and she misses me. Her crystal palace has shattered. What a shock.
    Two car accidents, one in which she totaled AP’s car.
    And on and on.

    Me? Life is ok. I’m financially pretty devastated, but I have a good job. My kids love me and I’ve adjusted to single fatherhood. No love in my life yet but that’s ok. I’ve taken this time to work on myself so I will never make the same mistake again in loving a disordered cruel person.

    To return to my opening: all this is finite. When I was where you were, the worst part of all was my terror and despair that I would never feel any different. I was a wreck. Devastated. Despondent. But time does its thing–so damned slowly, but it does. You will get through this; I’m not special. You are much, much stronger than you think. Grit your teeth, choose your battles, and keep walking through the flames.

      • +1David

        For all harm they do to us and our children during the divorce process they don’t look so hot when we move on.

    • All of this she asked for. None of it was created other than by her own hands. When she fired herself from your life, it appears she did you a tremendous favor. I suspect you were behind her cleaning up her cluster fuck messes during the marriage. I just sit back now and say “Thank God it’s not my problem anymore.” Yup, it is agony until the day arrives when it isn’t anymore, and you shake your head thinking “What in the actual fuck was I thinking?”
      The few moments I happened to see the Cluster Fuck B Sociopath last night? I felt immediate anxiety, the negative energy and soul sucking vacuum he eminates from his furious empty carcass brought back horrific memories. I owe my life to Cock Slobber, and I sure never thought I would say that.

    • I agree with David, we find out we are much stronger than we thought we were after going through this process. My kids tell me how much stronger I am all the time.

    • David, You are my new chump hero of the day. It sounds like your ex is my wife’s long-lost sister. What the fuck is it with the ones who just won’t get gone and stay gone? I mean, you fucked that other dude, bitch. Get the fuck out. Damn.

      • Because she wants to win. If you would give her want she demands, she would go away forever.
        It is the nature of the beast. You are asking for consequences for her actions.

        Most people who are disordered don’t believe any rules of fair play apply to them.

        • No reasoning at all no common sense no comprehension of how events will play out and affect everyone including them.
          Professionals ran into the same wall her lawyers stopped representing her when she dragged things out.
          Heres one you guys out there would like. About two years after she left and things went for a serious shit with her “soulmate” I was contacted on a dating site by none other. Yes true story. I did not have a picture with my profile but she liked my “honest approach” Yeah go figure.
          anyways in a very short conversstion she says quote “I sure hope you’re attractive I really want to &@*# you”
          Yeah what a classy desperate date.
          I printed that whole dialouge off in case it comes in handy someday
          But that karma bus did arrive after 8 years
          And it was loaded with treasure for me when it arrived and a small dent and blood stain…must have been a deer;)
          Stay the course the bus is slow it makes many stops but it eventually arrives.

      • Thank you! But I always hasten to add that I’m not fully healed, and maybe I won’t ever be. Or at least I won’t ever be the same. This was the trauma of my life–surpassing, I hate to admit it, the loss of my parents to whom I was extremely close. But I feel better. And like I said, that was my greatest fear–that I would never feel like myself ever again. But it also was what propelled me to file and move forward. This shit knocks you off your feet, existentially. I’ve never been a depressed or anxious person and when I became both, it seriously freaked me out. I was weakened, but also strengthened. I could have stayed: XW certainly was enjoying singlehood and all the husband perks so she never would have filed. But I knew I was dying inside so it really felt like a certainty of a living death and the fear of uncertainty. For eight nightmarish months this continued until I walked away once and for all. I am in awe when I read of others staying in the situation (spouse having an affair in their face) for years. Yet I understand. Fear and love make deluded cowards of us all.

        • When the worst of the monstering storm came, I could feel myself changing to survive and as I felt myself change, I started to miss me…I dint want to be somebody else. Im 11 years out from that and 11 years would have changed me in one way or another anyway, so I will never know who I would have been sans this trauma, but I remember the fear of losing me.

        • David,

          Both your posts are perfect and beautiful. I use to pray for karma but I’ve come to believe in exactly what you said, “You want karma? I don’t believe in it in a supernatural sense, but I do believe in disordered people pushing their luck with their shit life skills so eventually it will arrive. Maybe not in one dramatic fell swoop, but incrementally.” We’ll still call it karma, for them, it’s just life and their own choices catching up with them. Over the years I also wondered what happened to the person I used to me. I’m finding her again, and she’s freaking awesome. And you’re right, we might heal, but this experience has forever changed us.

          My “karma” story involves Fucktard signing a non-disclosure agreement with his company. Since the rules don’t apply to him, he was taken aback when he followed the OW to a new company and the old company sued him. Fortunately, he had already signed the settlement agreement prior to being sued so I was fully protected. I don’t know the outcome, nor do I care. His choices are catching up. As for as the OW karma? She has him. That’s about as bad as it gets.

        • Your X wife sounds like her life is completely out of control. What would worry me deeply is what she is modeling for your children, especially if you have a little girl. To a little girl, their Mother’s voice is like God speaking.

          I know because she cheated it would be human to take pleasure in the train wreck of her life, but it will have serious consequences for the children to see their mother in such a bad state.

          Do you think she could ever pull it together or is she just hopelessly disordered? I would not kick her anymore…it sounds like she is down for the count. Just for your children’s sake.

          There is something about having a non functional, crappy mother that is very hard to get out from under. The hand that rocks the cradle cliche stands for a reason.

          • Sylvia,

            I think she is hopelessly disordered. To take that first step and realize, with the force of a shocking epiphany, that she has deep problems and worse–that she has done anything wrong that would require a lifetime of amends–would require her to be essentially a different person. I don’t like to write someone off, but when I think about what she would have to do to change herself? We’re talking the realm of fantasy. Thank you for your thoughts about my daughter. Her mother is wonderful with her in important ways: she is affectionate, attentive. She possesses many maternal attributes that other people don’t. She loves our children as best she can given her essentially selfish nature. That’s the best I can say about her.

    • Hopeful here. Thank you for your reply. It is so encouraging to know there are others out there who walked through the flame and came through in one piece and in time perhaps even better.

      • Hi Hopeful. There are so many here who have found a much better life after walking through the flame. And with a bit of time they are not just in one piece but thriving. Don’t think for a minute that you can’t as well. You too are mighty. Good luck to you, and come back often as you need.

  • Sorry, no karma stories here either. My ex too is surrounded again by his family that thinks he’s “perfect and special.” Of course the problem was me. It couldn’t possibly be him that was the disordered one. He lied and cheated (even before we were engaged!), because of me. That was all said with heavy sarcasm if you couldn’t tell.

    He’s got his job, his ho-workers, his friends, his slut and even all the people at church think he’s a great guy, because he gone hurricane strength mode into being the servant/volunteer at church. Little do they know it’s just him spackling harder to make himself look like the nice guy instead. Never mind that he never acted that way in the past. Move along. There’s nothing to see there. It’s in the past. This new, sparkly Super Christian is who he was all along! More sarcasm.

    I’m not waiting for the karma bus. I highly doubt it’ll ever come to his neighborhood. He’s an expert at lying and deceiving. He fooled me for 25 years. Of course I had my moments of *this isn’t right* or *he’s lying, lying by omission or embellishing this story to make himself look better*, but I have no doubt in my mind that he’ll find another Martha(s) and he’ll be able to repeat this story all again with someone else. He hasn’t fooled everyone, because now quite a few people are onto him. I can understand his family only thinking the best of him and worse of me, because that’s his family and he’s had the mask on with them all these years and as far as I know, his mask hasn’t slipped much in front of them.

    I have heard lots of stories from friends who had the karma bus visit their ex. But then I’ve heard stories where the ex was better with the new spouse and they “never cheated again.” Not sure if it’s true as how does one ever know what is truly going on in another persons home? I myself am waiting on justice from God. He might never deliver it until my ex is dead. But I have no doubt in my mind that justice will be had by God some day.

  • Maybe there is “Karma” with a capital K if you don’t have kids. If you do have kids, you never get more than “karma” with a small K.

    Every day I get with my kids is karma. Even the tough days.

    But the idiot appears to be homeless now. After 5 years of very difficult “shared” custody, I now have full custody, This should be Karma, but it is only karma. He remains the father of my kids, and his troubles (caused by his terrible decisions) impact the kids. Last week he asked for a large sum of cash from one of the kids–a child too young to hold a regular job. This behavior makes my child anxious, angers my child (when I won’t front the loan for the child), and suggests we’ve got years of struggle ahead wherein my kids will need to learn to have boundaries and accept the fact that their father will never behave as a father.

    But, oddly, meh will eventually trump karma and Karma. It will take time–probably a couple of years–to build a life around the things you want. And when you have goals of your own and projects you are engaged in because they fulfill you, then you won’t care much that the EX is living in splendor or squalor. The only thing you’ll celebrate is the fact that the EX is not living with you!

    As for how long to fight over a property settlement, I recommend two steps. First, take a long, hard look at your lawyer. Do you think you’ve hired a good one? If so, then step two is to ask your lawyer’s advice about what to fight for and follow it. If you are not sure about the quality of your lawyer, then step two is to have a conversation with a different lawyer. It is very hard to make good decisions about divorce elements because you are so exhausted and the emotional issues can be impossible to untangle from the legal decisions. It is due to these exact problems that you hire someone, the lawyer, to protect your best interests during this process.

    I should have fought for more 5 years ago. My lawyer told me so. I didn’t listen. With hindsight, I see the mistakes I was making. Now, I follow my lawyer’s advice.

    • “Every day I get with my kids is karma. Even the tough days.”

      This! Underlined in bold print and neon colors!

      • “The only thing you’ll celebrate is the fact that the EX is not living with you!”

        Love this! So well said. I’m hanging on to that one as the ultimate “meh”.

    • Eilonwy – I am so glad you shared about your ex asking for money from one of your children. My ex – who left me and our two boys for his twu wuv 4.5 years ago has just found out he is losing his job effective Dec. 1. I fully expect the pittance he pays in CS to end that day as well, but am very happily remarried, have a good, solid job, and it will not impact my kids in the slightest (and really not much of an impact on me either…just a little belt tightening re: travel and shoe shopping). My youngest son, age 15, recently had a part-time job that gave him the idea for a really cool business. He shared his idea with his dad (who fancies himself an “entrepreneur” and has tried…and failed…at all sorts of side businesses over the years). His dad has suddenly decided that this business idea – thought up by a 15 year old kid – is his new ticket to financial freedom and he has effectively taken it over and has secured a web site, talked to a marketing person re: logo design/business cards/etc and told my son last week that he expects to be running the business by Jan. 1 and drawing a salary. My son is an anxious mess…he came to me crying that his dad has taken his idea and he will never see anything from it. He says his dad has “promised” to set up a trust fund for him with “some” of the proceeds – but I could tell from his devastated tone that he knows in his heart that this will never happen. He is experiencing what I did for 20 years with this loser – he takes and takes and values only what you can give to him to use. My heart hurts that my creative, smart, hardworking son is having to deal with the very adult issue of a narcissist literally stealing his idea and his passion. I am at a loss as to how to help him navigate his feelings…my boys are still very raw in some ways from all the fallout of the divorce and they do not want advice on how to deal with their dad (I have learned this the hard way). It sucks and it’s so very unfair. I guess the “little k” karma is my boys getting yet another example of why their dad is a toxic person and why they need to protect their hearts, minds and even their business ideas from him!

      Big K Karma has visited the ex in a few ways as well over past few years – he and twu wuv are still living in separate apartments (little dingy old cheap apartments) as her daughter can’t stand him and is dealing with serious mental health issues – our oldest son who is a Jr. in college rarely sees or speaks to him – and he is about to be an unemployed, bald 54 yr old man in an economy that prizes youthful energy and appearance. But when the big “K” affects our kids…it really isn’t something that is enjoyable for anyone….

      • Best they learn young that Dad cannot be trusted. They’ll learn how to navigate soon enough, unfortunate to be in this situation but not much anyone can do. Also as someone that deals in recruitment, we will look at and definitely consider older candidates but truthfully they have to bring a lot to the table and have an excellent employment history as they command higher salaries than the younger, wet behind the ears candidates. You would think that the older narc candidates would be quite clever during an interview and be able to easily sell themselves but that is not the case. They always slip up and show their true colors before the first interview (and last) has concluded. Your ex sounds like a typical narc, full of get rich quick schemes and the problem isn’t so much the to get rich quick scheme as it is just that they never make an effort to make a solid plan or see it all the way through. Everything is half assed with these losers.

      • Nicole, it sounds like we have an awful lot in common. I am so sorry about your son’s disappointment. I hope he can reclaim his idea after his dad makes a mess of it and gives up on it or that he goes on to have even better ideas that he pursues on his own.

        I am seeing much of the same kind of behavior between my kids and their father as you are. I fear the EX will be dragging on my children’s coat tails for years–stealing whatever he can from them and manipulating them into “loaning him a car,” “covering his rent payment,” etc. Like your kids, mine don’t want to talk about their dad with me and are struggling with loyalty issues. They want to believe he’s a good guy against all evidence to the contrary. (Lord knows, so did I for far too many years).

        Like you, I’ve had to learn to keep my “insights” to myself because anything I say that can be interpreted as negative about my kids’ dad is held against me, even if it is a rather tepid comment that wouldn’t be noteworthy if I said it about any other person on earth. But it is heartbreaking to hear a child say, “You don’t know him, Mom. You don’t know anything about him.” And then I get to watch my kids’ be disappointed when dad doesn’t come to an awards ceremony as promised, forgets a child’s birthday, and now tries to con a child into handing over their allowance. Good grief.

        My EX has run through all the empathy and support family, friends, employers, and his former spouse (me) will extend to him. We are all “evil” and “traitors” in his book because there is nothing more he can get from us. Now, he’s starting the same cycle of parasitical manipulation with his kids. I knew it would happen, but I thought he’d begin it when they were closer to adulthood–thus proving once again that I will always overestimate his humanity. No matter how bad I think he is, I’m wrong. He’s worse.

        And watching kids learn to manage this kind of manipulation and emotional abuse is even harder than learning how to extract myself from it.

      • Who steals their own child’s business idea?! Holy cow! That is just so awful. 🙁

        My ex had to steal our sons limelight. Son was doing a very cool magic trick (dad used to like magic in his younger days and probably did many magic tricks for his parents.) I watched in horror, my then husband “picking” at the cards, looking for the trick — trying to expose the magic. My son was HUMILIATED in front of us and his grandparents. He got up from the table and moved straight into the living room by himself. My ex just sat there with a *what’s the problem?* look on his face. I said, “Go over there and talk with him.” At the time, I couldn’t imagine him purposely doing that to his own son. My now that I know who he truly is, the narc didn’t like his son taking any of the limelight off himself. I will NEVER forgive him for doing that to my child.

      • That sounds like something my ex would do. What he has done is awful enough. He usually takes the kids on their birthday, or around their birthday, to celebrate. This is generally the only time he ever sees them. This year, on my oldest son’s birthday, he took our daughter. Then on daughter’s birthday, he took daughter again, when oldest son was convinced he would be picked up instead. On youngest son’s birthday they all got picked up, and brought back early. My oldest son now doesn’t want to see his bio dad anymore. I am beyond furious that my baby was hurt, but I know the less contact ex has with them, the better.

    • Yes, great post. Still doing the epic legal battle stuff but at least on a day to day basis the traitor is the whore’s headache now. They have to look after their own kid without an unpaid governess doing everything for them. Traitor claims he can only work 3 days a week because she works Mondays and Fridays so he has to be home. Hhmmmh, their son is 12 and 1/2 years old and goes to school. I wonder what all the other working parents in the world do?? How can they possibly cope. How can my young teenage mum colleagues at the rest home, with their broods of kids manage to work full-time on minimum wage and no partner? And they don’t even have an MSc. or a nursing degree, a house and 2 cars…
      Yep, learn to raise your own offspring on your own labour, Mr and Mrs Twatandprick. Mrs Twatandprick is 42, still on a restricted licence, breaks the law EVERY TIME she drives to work. She is Mr Twatandprick’s problem now, I am no longer her factotum. Partial karma for now.

    • Eilonwy, the traitor did that too, in 2014 he borrowed from his eldest son who was starting out on minimum wage, whose child support he had dodged for years. The money was to give to the whore who broke up the boy’s mother’s marriage, who also was his AP during our relationship. 2 years later he still hadn’t paid the boy back. These kids will eat any shit from their dad, they are like lost puppies and he did it to them. They don’t even talk to me now, but I paid for their studies, their driving lessons, their cars, wrote their CVs, drove them to job interviews and remembered their birthdays cos their dad never did. They want the love of the parent who doesn’t give it and are very critical of their mother who actually raised them mostly on their own, on a benefit while studying part-time to be a nurse. While she did that, traitor bankrolled the AP into her full-time nursing studies and when she qualified he dropped out of his PhD, left his job at uni, so she would be the earner and he wouldn’t pay child support. No karma from his kids yet.

  • Well, my STBX got hammered in court by the judge who found out about his spending funds on the “paramour” (like buying her a car) while I was paying all the bills at my home (including shared insurance)….. so I’m getting transitional alimony as well as child support, even though I make more.
    He appealed that ruling – and lost – so he owes the support each month, as well as his attorney fees AND my attorney fees. He fired his attorney (or was fired, I never found out), and has not hired another one.

    So guess what? Yep, I’m just sitting back and letting it ride….. meanwhile, he’s having to work tons of overtime because Schmoopie doesn’t have a job. I don’t foresee that she’ll be lazing around for much longer. 🙂

  • She performed atrocities during our marriage that affected me and my kids for years to come.

    We are divorced now and her continued atrocities are still knocking at my front door.

    The difference now is I a have accepted that this is who she is.

    Her cruel and evil ways can stay at my front door in which I replaced my door knocker with a mirror. This is enough karma for me.

  • Dear Hopeful,

    Thank you for prompting CN to put all the karma bliss all in one blog post. I shall read through it with great relish. Like you, I am still in the thick of divorce and so am eagerly waiting for both meh and karma. All I can add to this delightful list of #consequences is that I know how my STBX deals with emotional discomfort. He drinks. A lot. He has been an alcoholic for 40 years and still looks buff and healthy and glowing. But I have to believe that each time he sucks down another bottle/glass, some microscopic irreversible damage is being wrought (rot?! ha ha) somewhere in some essential internal organ. How very not nice of me to wish him poor health, but damn it, I do. I have to believe that years of alcohol abuse will eventually “pay off” and in a nice “twofer” sort of way, because it will be his boyfriend man whore left to deal with the diapers, dementia, and death. Slow motion karma is still karma.

    And then there is always the shiver of delight I get from knowing that he had to give me his luxury car and now drives a stick shift VW with rubber floor mats which he parks at his garageless, roach infested shoebox of an apartment. Insert howls of laughter here.

    • Had to laugh Dixie – mine is also an alcoholic, however my X is fat and bald. When I made him go in for a physical, right after DDAY (I did that so that maybe he would wake up that HE IS AN ALCOHOLIC! Actually, he is quite proud of his drinking, so it doesn’t matter if he is told he has a problem) Dr. said he has metabolic syndrome – the huge beer gut, prediabetic, low HDL, and triglycerides in the High category. Not to mention sleep apnea, Liver/Kidney tests BARELY in range. So why the hell isn’t he dead yet? I’m not sure, but like you – every night when I think of him downing another case of beer, I think it has got to be one more step in deaths (& Satan’s) direction.
      BTW – I’m finally getting my van back today. I had 6 months post divorce (which is tomorrow) to get my ‘stuff’ out of MY old house. But, because I refuse to get near that loser infested home, I had to depend on my kids and friends to get that ‘stuff.’ (And unfortunately, I did not get a lot of my stuff back – like my gardening pots and statues, outdoor furniture, etc…) BUT – I got the van. It’s a 1979 VW campervan. With a stick shift and rubber floor mats :-). It will be interesting to see what he has done to sabotage that, because it apparently doesn’t run, so I am having to have it towed to my house. It ran before I left.

    • “Slow motion karma is still karma”- Yes it is!! So glad you are free of such a horrible man. Your whole life is in front of you!

    • Thanks for writing. This has been a real Rollercoaster ride. That said, for me, everyday is a new discovery for me of uncovering his lies, deceit and secret life. Why are we chumps? Because we believe and trust. Why did we not know, because we took our marriage vows seriously and went under what turns out to be a very flawed assumption that our spouses did as well. After another day of repulsive discovery this weekend, I feel an amazing sense of relief. I realize that he doesn’t know or chooses not to know and understand what love really is about. Allow me to share my thoughts. Love is not tawdry sex and the adolescent pitter patter that is felt with a new relationship. Love is not the excitement of your first weekend or week away on vacation together. Nor is it the romantic high that all feel I. The beginning of a relationship. I believe love is that deep emotional commitment and friendship. It is taking care of your spouse when they are sick, reassuring them when they are sad and discouraged. It is having disagreements and working through them. It is compromise and it is give and take. It is about honesty and having the courage to address issues. It is about being understanding and sacrificing at times one’s self and needs. It is about living every day life and grinding through it together. Not a shiny new toy with sparkles but that old shoe that fits just right, is comfortable, cozy and warm. So this weekend and this week I had an epiphany. My STBX is a lost soul. He is and will always be searching. He is in love with infatuation and luster and when the shine wears off of his new toy, he finds another and discards the old shoe in the trash heap. Maybe I saw a glimpse of “Meh” or maybe I’m beginning to stop looking through rose colored glasses but I want him out of my life. I want to get divorced from him and close that chapter in my life forever. It’s a shame that you can’t have do overs in life. If I could, knowing what I know, I would run not walk away from him the first time we met. Maybe my Tuesday is ahead in dim sight!

      • Your description of real love is beautiful. It was natural and right for us to assume that the person we loved felt the same way in return. And understanding now that they absolutely did not feel that way explains how they were able to treat us so badly and how unable we were to detect it sooner. It is all such a shame. So sad that there are so many emotional cripples out there … I pray we all improve our pickers. Better late than never!

  • One more thing that seems very “karma like” to me is that the two cheaters who get together KNOW what the other person is capable of.

    They may have successfully lied and have everyone, including their friends, family, coworkers, church goers, and dog convinced they didn’t do anything wrong. But there is still one person who knows exactly what they did. And that it is wrong. The person they did it with. Ex knows the whore he dated fucks married men. She knows he cheats on his wife and is a liar. They will say it doesn’t matter to them, but it does. They aren’t totally delusional cause they keep their affair a secret cause they know it is wrong.

    • I’ve always wondered how relationship that start with such horrible UN-auspicious energy can work out. I know I couldn’t start anything that way.
      For me, I don’t know if the red headed whore knew that he was with me when they fell in wuv. If she didn’t, then he LIED to her even BEFORE they started their relationship. NO a good omen for thing to come.
      If she did know about me, she obviously did not care and that proves that they both have moral values worth shit. Either way, I don’t see it lasting. It’s BAD Karma and that bus will eventually roll round to them.

  • Karma for me is in the form of me being in the house he renovated(apparently I sat around and ate bon bons-##?). He tried to convince me to leave,saying on could work on myself in my apartment ($##$@!!???) , and he would come to see me every day and maybe we would reconcile maybe we would even get remarried (huh????we were newly separated). My lawyer shut that sh#t down. I stayed am still here a year later and preparing to sign (finally) the separation agreement that gives ME the choice of keeping the house or selling it (banks won’t lend an unemployed deadbeat money go figure). Another little bit of karma since he stopped working full time in order to avoid spousal support..meh is coming. ..

  • Both my husband and I are former chumps. His ex-wife left him for a guy that was 10 years younger than she. Dude came with some serious baggage- criminal history, no stable employment, drug addiction, no place to live- but he was the “love of her life”. Fast forward a few years to now. My DH fought for and got sole custody of their two children and ex-wife pays HIM child support. My stepson wants absolutely nothing to do with his mother and my stepdaughter sees more of the light every day about her mom (previously worshiped the ground she walked on). Ex-wife went from seeing their daughter regularly to seeing her now less than once per month for dinner. She has also developed a nasty drug and pill habit, and nearly died from an opiate overdose earlier this year, while the “love of her life” told her not to tell the paramedics which drugs she took because he “could get in a lot of trouble”. Nice guy, huh? Now, her boyfriend is serving 18 months in jail for pointing a handgun at another man during a road rage incident. Ex-wife is living in a shitty trailer with the electricity shut off and can only bemoan that she is “so broken” that he’s locked up. She can’t keep a steady job (gets fired or quits) and she will likely be joining him in jail because she doesn’t pay the child support on time. Her parents don’t want her around and she’s effectively cutoff from her brother and the rest of her family. I guess karma came for her.

  • Maybe instead of looking for bad Karma for them, we should look for good Karma for us. From reading these comments, I’ve come to see that the good Karma is being rid of soul-sucking spouses, traveling with the kids, making great friends and having peace in our lives.

      • My philosophy has always been that focusing on bad karma for someone else will just bring it on yourself. I blocked everything to do with my ex after D-day, and asked friends not to tell me anything. He moved away and joined OW’s family and friends so he’s not in touch with many of our old friends anyway. I’ve heard that he had some serious heart problems and not one of his new “friends” helped him out. Also, I believe the federal project that he was going to become famous from was cut and he ended up without much to do at the University where he works. Other than that, I’ve not heard much. But I do believe he’s happy, and that he doesn’t miss me or even think about me. He lives only for his next kibble.

    • Yes … living a good life without them is really where it’s at. And being able to respect who you see in the mirror each morning. I love the hashtag #notagbacks from poster above.

    • I agree AND the funny stories today are some seriously important antidotes to the damage we’re dealing with.

      Gallows humor helps. Schadenfreude is a word, after all.

      It helps me realize how pathetic x is when I read about the shenanigans these idiots get up to. I can relate to so many. His karma is to run away in fear from himself. Pretty sad to realize he thought it was a good decision to give up our life for all-consuming degrading sexual encounters with strangers.

      No books, no movies, no hobbies, no buddies, no concerts, museums, backyard bbqs…just work and sex you pay for. And so much booze.

      I’m learning that I have chosen relationships as “projects” rather than as “meeting of the minds” and I still don’t really get why I wanted to help my significant others to my own detriment, but I can say that x’s life was better while we were together and, although he’ll probably coast on that for awhile, it’s going to end in tears.

      • Roaring,
        Here is something I learned in my therapy that I think is fried gold:

        Whenever you meet someone, this is who they are. They are not going to change. Period. The most you could ever change might be a small dietary change (Try this miso soup!) or clothing (But male sandals CAN be sexy!) and THAT IS ALL.
        And even those insignificant things might be meet with resistance.

        Who they are….is who they are. If you meet a 46 year old alcoholic/addict/narc/serial cheater/porn watcher (we could go on) THAT is who you are getting.

        They are not a tear down house. I know the lesson seems late…but it is not. We have so much time left. If we can absorb that lesson, it will save us unbearable agony in the future.

  • First, definitely work for a fair settlement. It seems like forever when you are in the court stage but it really is worth it.

    I think karma happens to these people all the time but they are too narcissistic to actually realize it so I’m not sure it makes much of a difference. Mine’s first long-term relationship ended not when they were arrested for assaulting each other or a myriad of other problems but when the new partner found him online seeking hookups with HIV positive men (its a thing apparently), and he was kicked out and missed I don’t know how many of his by then supervised visits with his kids because he was, as he told me, homeless and living in his car. Seemed sorta like karma to me but in reality he chose to illicitly use his company credit card to live in expensive hotels during that time (don’t know how he managed not to get fired) and found a way to, in his mind at least, play it as him luckily escaping from a physically abusive relationship (the ambulance was called for the other guy on the night of their assault and he was also abusive with me.) In his last relationship with yet another man who was the “love of his life and he expected to grow old with” the guy broke up with him a while back, but apparently did not break up with the other member of their “throuple” (its also a thing) and he sought sympathy for others about how someone could be so “untruthful” and deceitful to poor him and waste 2 years of his life (with seemingly no conscious that it was really crappy of him to be directly deceitful with me for 20 some years of mine.)

    While I can sorta chuckle at the clear karma involved here and other places in his life, it is less than satisfying when he is so lacking in any kind of self awareness or conscious that he sees it as so.

    And sadly the people that have suffered the most from all is karma are my kids. The biggest consequence for him should have been that he is no longer able to see his fabulous kids and be a regular father to them — living with them at his home, seeing them regularly and often, doing basic stuff like homework and cooking dinner with them. But again, he doesn’t see it as his fault, doesn’t really care and has made no effort to make that different for them. The karma I really want for him — that one of his dangerous hookups or imploded relationships or bankruptcies or arrest would be a wakeup call for him to realize the impact his actions have had on others, take some responsibility, and become the kind of man that could be a dad to my kids who despite everything love him and crave his attention, will sadly never happen. Karma is not all it is cracked up to be.

    • Part of this just makes my heart sad–the idea that kids will continue to “crave” the attention of a parent, no matter how lousy that individual is.

      I think we can get over (and stop craving) the attention of old romantic partners because we chose them. And sooner or later we learn to choose again (and to choose better).

      But parents aren’t choices. Kids don’t “get over” or even really “grow past” the desire to have decent parents. They don’t get to choose better ones. Many people will grow up to be healthy adults without having decent parents, but I don’t know if they’ll ever stop wishing they’d had decent parents.

      • Once you’ve done your grieving and accepting, the wishing goes away. I was in my late twenties when I finally — after years of therapy and futile effort — I gave up and accepted that my parents were too crippled by mental and emotional problems to be the kind of parents I’d longed for. To be parents at all, really.

    • Carolyn, I am still trying to process that men are seeking out HIV positives to sleep with…it is like a sign of the end of civilization.
      Or sanity?

  • “Really though, the biggest punishment my cheater can endure is being him. He sucks. He goes through life knowing he’s destroyed everyone unfortunate enough to try and get close to him. He doesn’t care. That doesn’t fill me with righteous indignation anymore, that he doesn’t care. That’s who he is. A person who doesn’t give a shit about other people. Who can’t connect. Who lacks the human empathy chip.”

    Best quote ever. I have the clean relationship with the kids and grandkids. I can look myself in the mirror and know I poured myself into that union for 35 yrs. X is just a sad old man with a 25 yr old friend, cut off from his kids, who can’t retire. Me? I’m doing well—>from a very famous Billy Currington song.

  • My daughter is a competitive rower, and parents must volunteer at competitions. Though I usually volunteer in other roles, our rowing club was desperate for umpire boat drivers one weekend, and organizers asked me to fill in. Ex, an experienced driver, took me out on one of the boats with another volunteer so I could get the feel for the vessel. After five minutes in the water he loudly declared me a total failure – there was no way I could drive well enough to handle the job. The other volunteer in the boat was clearly shocked, and declared “I think she’s doing just fine.” But.we returned to shore and ex told the organizer I simply could not be trusted with this.
    Later in the competition, the weather turned a little stormy. I was now working the finish line tower, ego bruised, but happy to be dry. Suddenly, a call came through on our radio system: “Attention! We have a capsized umpire boat at the starting line!” Well, I probably don’t have to tell you who capsized the boat… And these boats are tough to capsize! Thankfully no one was hurt but the entire incident was the talk of the tournament. Ex could barely look me in the eye when he was hauled in to shore. Extra karma points: he happened to be driving the bitchiest umpire and she was NOT a happy camper.
    I’d always been humoured by the nicknames that CN has for their cheating exes…. And now I finally had the perfect nickname for mine. I call him “The Captain”. ?

  • I had to be patient, but the Karma bus not only hit my 2 cheaters, it backed up and rolled over them for good measure. X was already suffering from a degenerative medical condition, which has only worsened such that he is now confined to a wheel chair. When we were together, I took care of him and attended to his every need. He was able to live close to a normal life, while I sacrificed daily for his comfort. That is now gone and he would do anything for a return to “our” old life. He is cared for by people who are paid to care for him, not people who love him and he is forced to rely on the kindness of (paid) strangers. His kids love him, but…

    The OW fared even worse. Husband left, kids want nothing to do with her, house foreclosed, lost her job, lost her “professional” reputation, tax liens filed, had to move to find work. I know some folks don’t think we should care about OW, but, in my situation, she intentionally targeted a sick, old man solely for financial reasons. She thought there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Little did she know that it was protected by a trust (they are great protection against these types of people and I highly recommend them!). Now, we were by no means rich, but we had worked very, very hard all our lives to become financially secure and to provide for our kids’ education. She wanted it all and ended up with absolutely nothing, except a lot of bad Karma. Sucks to be her.

    I wish the Karma bus had never arrived. Hell, I wish there had been no reason for it to do so. So many lives ruined, so many people forever scarred. But there is no going back.”For every action, there is a separate and equal reaction.”

  • My Karma hit almost immediately, and still two years later hasn’t stopped. When my cheater pants was dating 5 woman I played the pick me dance. Our marriage was bad and I was willing to do ANYTHING to restore it. After he stopped seeing the woman, with the help of a phone call from me, we started to rebuild. Unfortunately narcissistic cheaters are cheaters for life and after two years of what I thought was a great rebuilding, he began his old ways again. That was the week of Christmas 2014. Quietly I started to get my ducks in a row, with the help of my wonderful sisters and on April 25, 2015 I packed up my half of the house and moved out on him. He was a way for the weekend with his whore so he returned to a very messy half empty house. (Oh to have seen his face)
    My girlfriend Karma came on April 30th with him getting fired. May 1st, he was served. (In mid April, we were being evicted but because I was leaving I didn’t care or bother to tell him until I left) He was able to convinced the landlord to let him stay, had his son move in and pay rent to keep the place, but then his truck died. $3000 was going to be the cost to fix it, and he didn’t have it. Unemployment didn’t pay him and eventually in August he had a sheriff knocking on is door at 7 am with a lock out order. His son bailed on him taking the only transportation he had, and he was stuck in a hotel with nothing. He got a DUI while driving the whores car, and his dad died all by the end of the month. Eventually he got another job, but due to poor financial decisions and lack of keeping a job, he was evicted again and lost his storage container. He has since lost that job and I’ve been NC since June. His sister is planing on suing him for damages he did to a motorcycle that they lent him back in August. (I warned them not to do it after I heard of the DUI, but they didn’t listen. They thought I was just being bitter) We go to mediation on this Friday but I’ve obtained an attorney and our hearing is at the end of the month, I’ll have nothing to say to him except, “I have an attorney so I’ll see you at the hearing” Karma is not his friend.

    • This is an awesome Karma story! Loved reading every bit of information. Why don’t his 5 whores bail him out? You know the ones he was seeing while married to you… Good luck at your hearing, i’m sure you’ll do very well!

  • It seems sensible to not spend more on legal fees than you are likely to get in terms of spousal / financial support but it is not always that clear. No one tells you at the outset that you can expect to pay $200,000 to collect $200,000 in support. If they did – of course you wouldn’t do it.

    When you first separate – it’s just a few thousand dollars to brief your counsel, have them review your circumstances and for lawyers to exchange letters requesting financial disclosure, interim support and access arrangements. Then, nothing happens so more letters are generated and hey – you have already spent $10,000 and you have nothing for it – not even an application for divorce. Then you figure you should mediate because that could be a faster and cheaper way to get at least interim support. Lawyer charges $10,000 to prepare for that shit-show which results in Ex saying that you should get a job and support yourself and the children while he “retires”. More letters followed by more money out the door. You can’t get your car fixed, pay for dental care or get a haircut because you are afraid to spend money now that the lawyers have hooked up a siphon to your bank account.

    So you change lawyers and start the process all over again but this time, you file for divorce because you believe that a judge is the only person who can get some form of reasonable support. Lawyer says that you must participate in a hearing – mandatory but judge has no binding authority at this stage. Now you are up to $60,000. Next, you need a settlement hearing – ex shows up and then walks out. Cost: $10,000 to prepare for and have lawyer attend conference. You press for the divorce trial. Now opposing lawyer drags heels on financial disclosure and, between the other lawyer and the family court, no dates for divorce trial conference can be scheduled for at least six months (yes – another conference is required for the sole purpose of scheduling the trial). Your head says – let it go – he is now well into retirement but wait…his tax return is suddenly now available and whoa – he made high six figures in income last year which is significantly different than the $50 K in retirement income that he reported in court documents. Now you are over $100,000 in legal fees and still have not made it to divorce trial.
    All the books and articles say to avoid a trial at all costs as it is ridiculously expensive. Well so is trying to negotiate and mediate with an angry, disordered, narc sociopath as you navigate your way to the trial. I am not looking for Karma (although I would be so delighted to have it) and I don’t believe in justice in the legal system. Do I believe in my lawyer? Sort of. There is a limit to what can be accomplished in terms of support when your ex is of an age where he can say that he is retiring (but not based on the tax return). These pathetic creatures that you pledged your life to long ago and allowed to sire your children will take enormous pleasure in screwing you over and over in the divorce process because you dared to kick them to the curb and cut off a lifetime supply of delicious cake.

    So Hopeful, what should a chump do? Do your cost/benefit study, look after your mental and physical health, be the sane parent, document, document, document, create a Plan B for financial support, reach out to fellow chumps for support because no one else cares after a few months post D-Day and certainly not after a long battle, and, if there is money at the end of the rainbow, fight the good fight. I wholeheartedly agree with David2016 who said above that “disordered people push their luck with their shit life skills” so eventually, Karma will arrive.

    • Ugh. So much truth in this comment. I think the hard part is doing a smart cost/benefit analysis whilst in the midst of emotional turmoil. So much depends on having a lawyer who is tough, honest, and recognizes the patterns of a disordered spouse. There really should be financial penalties, however, for people who drag out court appearances. (Well, and maybe financial penalties for a few other things as well).

  • CL has it right on the nose. While there are some pretty humorous karma stories out there (I’m shamelessly enjoying those by the way) these disordered individuals are the ones in the driver’s seat of their own karma bus of destruction. That bus may one day plow into them with race car speed or slowly drive over them back and forth and they’ll just keep getting up and dusting themselves off, unaware of what’s causing their injuries or how to stop them from happening. People who are so scrambled up in their brains that they can do such things as destroy their own families without even flinching don’t have the ability to self-reflect nor do they understand the concept of cause and effect. They will continue to repeat the same cycle of destruction over and over again. It doesn’t make me feel satisfied that he will never truly be happy, in fact, it makes my job as a parent more difficult as one day I will have to explain to my daughter why her daddy acts the way he does. Hopefully, he doesn’t discard her when parenting gets too difficult for him, but his track record says that this disconnect is probably somewhere in the near future.

    I know that real karma will probably never affect him because as CL pointed out, my STBX simply doesn’t care. He lacks what the rest of us take for granted. Real emotions and the ability to connect to another human being without sucking the life force out of them like an emotional vampire. I’m not a mental health professional, but I think that whatever caused him to be this way can’t be reversed. It’s tragic and sad that even his own family has rejected him and still he continues on his poisoned, misdirected path because it’s all he knows to do. But just because I pity him the way I would pity an animal gone rabid, it doesn’t mean that I don’t sometimes wish for my own tree-falling story. Especially when I have days like today when I’m doing everything myself and wondering again how I came to be in this position with my daughter crying because it’s her father’s night to take her and she doesn’t want to go. Angry because this POD fights me tooth and nail on the divorce process, not because he still loves me and feels genuinely sorry for what he did to me, but because he can use me as a means to rebuff any commitment requests from his whores. I don’t know if you can call this karma but I will definitely be relieved when I can finally say I’m free from him and can move on with my life.

  • I love the Karma stories. They are so fun to read. But really, I’m in the Living Well is the best karmic revenge camp. DDay #2 happened two weeks before my youngest left for her freshman year of college. She was devastated and had a bad year at school because of it. Ex wanted to force her to change schools as “punishment” for her poor grades. I refused. Now I’m happily divorced, and have a great relationship with both my kids while my ex has no relationship with my kids. My youngest not only graduated from the college of her choice, she changed her last name to my maiden name when I changed mine and told her “sperm donor” he wasn’t welcome at her graduation since he didn’t provide any financial or emotional support. That’s my karma. I have my two beautiful children, my supportive family and friends, and my self respect. He has himself, his evil narc mother and his stripper/fluffer live-in gf. I win. Even if he never understands exactly what he threw away, I do.

    As far as how long to fight? As long as you can. I stuck it out and it was, at times, brutal but ultimately I walked away with the marital home free and clear while he ended up with the HELOC refinanced on the house he lives in (which is infested with lady bugs, wasps and squirrels) that seems to lose a little more value every month. I bought myself a smaller house with a bigger yard for me and my six dogs and when the sale of the marital home closes this week I get all of the proceeds fucktard free. That alone was worth the fight.

    • ***Even if he never understands exactly what he threw away, I do.

      And there it is.

      Six dogs? I knew I liked you.

      • Yep six. Big dogs too. The smallest one is 60 pounds. 🙂 They keep me company and keep me entertained every day. And they never fuck strippers. I forgot to mention the extra little happy ending – the closing is scheduled for my former wedding anniversary. I will be smiling all the way to the bank!

        • I will not go off on my dog tangents (robot voice: must use control)

          but NO ONE can sneak up on a lady with 6 dogs. You have the most advanced security, weather and environmental detectors….technology cannot duplicate their powers.
          They can SMELL cancer, for God’s sake.

          I have a poodle mix (Fozzie Bear!) and if he barks…you better believe someone is out there…a car, a raccoon. He does not lie. And, funny…he does not fuck strippers either! Imagine that!

  • No trees have fallen on my exAhole, but I feel like part of his karma is just LOSING ME.


    The house is now absolutely disgusting. My kids report bugs in food, cum stains on pillowcases, vomit on the sofa. #housekeepingwithoutchumpwifeyisHARD

    He’s totally disorganized without my help planning his calendar. Misses the kids’ events, constantly running late for everything, etc.

    His finances are a wreck without the use of my income. (Which he used to finance his relationship with Slunt.) Also because now there’s no one saying, Don’t you think we should pay the mortgage rather than going on an expensive vacation?

    His relationships are dying one by one without me around to do his PR. With friends, with customers, with his kids.

    ….plus the knowledge that someday he will be sick and dying and thinking to himself, “Shit, I should have kept her around; she was compassionate and kind to my father as he died in our home under her tender care, I’ll bet she would have done the same for me if I had not traded her in for strange pussy that ended 20 years ago when I aged from SexGodOnViagra to DisgustingDirtyOldPervertWithNoErection.”

    Karma? HE. LOST. ME.

  • I triumphantly gifted my ex my wheelchair. He had been cheating on me while I was in the wheelchair for a few years with pelvic joint injuries sustained having our children. I had surgery and recovered miraculously. But meanwhile he ran off with shmoopie. Now he is having trouble walking due to an advancing degenerative disease and it’s his turn to enjoy the wheel chair. Forever. For the final blow I’m waiting for shmoopie to run off in turn just as soon as her greencard comes through. I’m enjoying my return to health and long hikes in the woods.

  • My divorce was finalized late yesterday after me having filed almost 3 years ago. We finally went to mediation and both agreed to the terms. Neither one of us thought the terms were fair, but we both accepted them. The attorneys spent the last week working out the language of the marital separation agreement.

    Yesterday morning, she (we are a same sex couple) changed her mind and would not agree to some of the terms she already agreed to (we are hours away now from our final court hearing). She also sold stocks yesterday morning that she was going to get in the settlement, but she sold them before they were transferred to her name so the capital gains will be reported to the IRS under my SSN. This was just another example of her lies, cheating and betrayal. I insisted she be responsible for the tax liability and paid that amount to her attorney (out of what I owed her) to be held in escrow (didn’t want her changing her mind on that one and sticking me with the tax bill).

    We were minutes away from having to reschedule our hearing because the courthouse was closing. There was no way I was leaving there yesterday without being divorced from that woman so I held strong and got what I wanted.

    For me, it was far better to settle and not have a contested divorce. Settling gives you much greater say in the outcome. Leaving the decision up to a stranger (a judge) is risky and may or may not work to your advantage. The key is doing thorough discovery, knowing the facts, thinking with a clear head and knowing what you will accept or not accept. Everything eventually works out exactly how it is supposed to work out.

    • Congrats Loyal2afault! I remember holding that final judgment in my hands and feeling pure relief that the nightmare was finally over.

    • Loyal,
      Not leaving to the Judge IS smart. They do not know you, do not care about you and usually just want to get home. I translated in Court and for some odd reason, I think the Judges would forget I speak English VERY WELL. I would hear the insensitive things they would say back in chambers…like “Would these assholes hurry up already?? G-damn it!”

      Never put your fate in the hands of a Judge, if you can avoid it all costs. I am sad that your marriage ended, but relieved you got away with what you wanted.

      And it shows us that same sex marriages can be just as torturous. Cheaters are cheaters, and a broken heart is the same. I always sort of idealized my lesbian friends relationships, but as more of them have gotten married, I see the same cheating issues.

  • Still dealing with ex but soon i hooe hope hope to be free and clear hours away.

    Ex cheated and fucked over every single woman who every cared about him. Ive sympathy for all except the last one cause she helped immensely to create the shit storm. Fuck her.

    Karma bus

    had him thrown out of new womans home four times but shes still hoovering.

    Both his crappy vehicles break down every other day.

    Hes ostracized him self from his kids and sibling.

    Hes 80,000 dollars in the hole just in credit card debt racked up in three years time. Our bills were always paid and only owed the mortgage. Doesnt count the other shit he owes and its huge.

    Hes a miserable unhappy nasty pod and only getting sex makes him happy. Sex thats it.

    Hes being audited. Haha. Should be fun.

    He needs a full hip replacement and is in contant pain. No ins.

    His customers drive him insane and that drives him crazy.

    And theres more karma coming he doesnt even know about but he will. My eyes twinkling here.

    Hes full if himself loves and hates himself at the same time.

    Im not a meh but moving in that direction i no longer love nor hate him i feel nothing for him i feel thats a great way to meh. I still hurt sometimes but i am fixing that and.

    Do i wish him happiness, no, do i wish him dead, no. I wish for him to stay the most wonderful miserable bastard he is and find some whore just like him so they are both off the market at least for awhile so nobody else gets hurt.

    My motto is do no harm. Him unless i get exactly what when i want i will do great harm. The rest of us are chattle for his amusement. He says he cares but as traci says actions speak louder than words. The karma bus so far for him just keeps hitting him over and over. Tee hee!

  • With regard to fish or cut bait-if your ex starts to litigate for the sake of a platform, shit that shit down. As CL says, it is in your lawyer’s hands now. I would ask them what experience they have with high conflict divorce. It will suck, but it is also finite. Personally, I went the path of ‘some momey costs too much’. In this case it is college tuition for my Kiddo. Rather than have her stress about his half being there on time, I’ll have to figure it out somehow. Of course he claims he never agreed to paying half of anything to do with her. I have an agreement that could be enforced, but to some extent that is giving him what he wants-centrality. Learn from this-stop trying to make sense of nonsense.

    As to karma, I tend to think more about good karma for me and Kiddo than bad karma for him (the OW looks like Freddy Mercury with tits and is a welfare queen). But Kiddo is thriving, I am doing okay. I won’t lie and say it isn’t effing hard work, but finally I am working in MY service, not his…..

    Megahugs. It sucks now, but it gets better. Keep walking.

  • I don’t know about Karma, but in my case I decided to settle and probably gave the cheater more than I should have. But I came to the conclusion that getting on with my “new life” was worth the cost. Every day as becoming more and more miserable with letters, motions, etc. And my lawyers were just looking to prolong the litigation for obvious reasons. It went from you will get everything you wanted TO well, we might have to give the ex something TO well, the judge might give the ex one half anyway!

    A friend of mine said this: “are you going to spend $400/hour to argue over a $150 table?”. I decided it wasn’t worth it and settled.

    I am now living in the “money pit” of a house I bought; in debt up to my eyeballs; live within 15 minutes of most of my family; reconnected with a lot of old friends and made some new ones too. The first thing people I know notice? How much calmer I am and don’t seem stressed at all like i used to be. So was it worth it? YES.

    • …and best of all, you don’t wake up lying next to someone who cares more about his shoes than he does about you.

  • Not quite karma with my ex, but I would say I have a sort of grim satisfaction.

    As with many here, my ex had quite a twisted view of life with me: did not want that cushy profession, did what others expected of him, not what he wanted, etc.
    So he left for his “dream job” and married the MOW (after divorcing the chumps, of course).
    Then they proceeded to start a new family.

    Ex wished he had divorced me when he cheated, but I did not know that. A complete reboot:
    OW was the same age I was when ex first cheated, though I did not know it; she is more than 10 yrs younger than both me and ex.
    Next step: leave his first family, and start a new family– same order of kids, etc.

    the grim satisfaction:
    Ex left dream job after less than a year
    Has a another one, that is not as flexible. Wants to continue the good life, but new child has some health issues (I have not asked what, I do not care– though I feel for any child having difficulty), which limits where the family can transfer.

    So, he left because he was unhappy and never wanted the life we had
    As my daughter pointed out– he thought he could simply start over– but he has discovered that our life was a pretty good one, and now he has many more issues (two new kids with health issues, worry about supporting 4 kids, not just two, etc.).

    I do not rejoice with any difficulties faced by kids (they think new kid is on the spectrum), but I admit to grim satisfaction that ex thought he could just pivot and begin fresh, ignoring our life.

  • Everytime my X is in charm mode and I feel those tiny stirrings, I look at this. It reminds me of what I am not missing and how I don’t want my senior years to go in any way, shape or manner.
    My X is 65
    Alcoholism, marijuana, high cholesterol, osteoporosis, back, neck fused. shoulder replacement, both knees replacement, sex addiction, serial cheater, migraines, porn addiction, bad with money, people make friends with him, he doesn’t maintain relationships with them, Pathological Liar, half truths, by omission, trickle truth constant, Vomiting Migraines, Insomia, High blood pressure needs meds, Moody ya think, Possibly closeted bi-sexual, Doesn’t practice safe sex, Father schizophrenic (not his fault but adds to incurable inheritance), Mother narcissistic witch, Partied while first wife was taking care of the 3 small children, Multiple concussions, which will probably lead to early onset dementia, if it hasn’t already, Wants group sex , Goes to known sex club., Massages with Happy Endings maybe outright human trafficking too. Depression, asthma, excema,
    allergies too.

    I think he is his own little cloud of Karma. Now I am off for a lovely day… because all I take is vitamins.

  • A few months after the divorce was final my ex ended up trying to get a protection order against me because I yelled at him one single time and apparently that made him fearful for his life. He served me at work, it was awful and humiliating and pretty much the worst day of my life.

    I hired a lawyer and went to court and he didn’t show up. So the judge extended the protection order and I went back to court in another 2 weeks. In the meantime whenever we had exchanges for our daughter I brought the police lest I be accused of anything. He sent me inflammatory emails and texts at this time, trying to get me to respond and break the protection order. I didn’t respond or communicate with him in any way shape or form during this time to protect my own ass.

    We have our court date and of course the judge tossed it out. My lawyer even went up to his lawyer and said “can you just drop this, you know he has nothing to indicate he needs a protection order” and his lawyer smiled and said “now where is the fun in that?”

    I found out the next day that literally that morning before we had our court date he was fired from his job. It took months to piece together the story from old coworkers and his family but apparently his new boss and some colleagues knew about his affair and how it took place on the job and they did not like that. They made his job very hard to do and he responded with a serious attitude back at them (entitlement and not respecting women…shocking that was his response). Boss started documenting his issues and after a year of documentation was able to fire him and it happened to be the day he brought me to court.

    Took him 6 months to find a new job, and in the meantime he and OW called off their wedding. (But then got married in the spring)

    It was scary though because I worried about what would happen with my daughter and her child support with him unemployed, I actually worried about his mental health since he was always pretty wrapped up in his job and how being fired and unemployed for so long was going to be hard for him to handle. I was worried he might kill himself for a while. I can’t say that in the moment I was happy about it, but it did just seem like incredible timing. His life has turned to shit in the last few years since the affair and mine has only gotten better.

    • Yeah, my XH did the protection order thing too, because I yelled at him and flung the divorce papers he had the gall to serve upon me as I was leaving for my b-day trip. I just handed him the waiver of service 2 minutes before the server arrived. The divorce papers were two pages – not even wadded up when I flung them. Then I yelled at him in front of our neighbors and told him to go back to his whore.

      He made up some other shit too, that I “appeared to be waiting standby” for a flight that he and whore were taking 1500 miles from where I live. Not sure how I appeared to be doing that from my desk over a thousand miles away. And, in my state, you need three accusations, so he added that I called him and his family “white trash”. Yep, sure did when they welcomed whore into their home a few weeks after our quickie divorce. I was their “daughter” for 17 years.

      My attorney told me not to fight it. It was easily explainable. It was never served, so it never was enforceable. Apparently the coward felt threatened by this. I still giggle when I think of him standing before a judge saying any of this made him feel threatened. # MyballsRinMyWhore’sPurse.

  • -he would get so wasted at bars he’d not pay his tab (he finally went to AA)
    -went in the hospital thinking he had a heart attack (major panic attack)
    -lost a ton of friends
    -his grandmother died
    -his father died (the Grandmother and Dad were awful for me also)
    -he had a $1400 flat tire replacement (asked me to pay half!!! HAHAHAH! No.)
    -got laid off twice
    -someone tried to beak into his (our former house)
    -the OW went back to her husband and they reconciled her divorce

    All before our divorce was final
    It got to be where I actually felt bad for him. Now we are NC but he wants to be friends. Um no. Now MEH!! You will be meh, Hopeful!

  • I haven’t posted on here in quite a while, but when I saw today’s request I knew I could provide some karma stories.

    As for my XH (who is also forever immortalized as the 1 Crazy jumping in a Sleeping Bag in CL’s 12 days of Christmas… thank you, Tracy!) — long story short, his secretary was the OW — here’s what happened to him after we separated and divorced:
    1. Was publicly reprimanded by the state bar for unethical advertising practices. I actually attended a continuing legal education seminar recently where HIS case was specifically cited as the “here’s what NOT to do” example.
    2. Was evicted from his office for failing to pay rent, and his office computers, furniture, etc. were all seized
    3. Was evicted from his apartment for failing to pay rent — Bonus: he and Schmoopie were both on the lease, so they’re co-defendants in that case (still pending)
    4. Sad sausage emailed me months later to complain that he and Schmoopie had broken up
    5. His clients reported him to the state bar for failing to take care of their cases properly, mismanagement of files, etc.
    6. State bar investigated him & suspended his law license – he’s ineligible to practice for several years because of “incapacity” status (which is attorney-speak for 2 things: Alzheimer’s or Substance Abuse, you can guess which one applies)
    7. Was ordered to go to rehab for his issues in order to get his law license reinstated – but refuses to attend because of his “fundamental differences” with the requirements (i.e., stop drinking)
    8. Within the last year, he’s been arrested for public intoxication back in his hometown
    9. He is middle aged and currently lives at his parents’ lake house – or back at his parents’ house.
    10. No clue if he’s gainfully employed – he’s still living off mom and dad

    As for me – I made partner at my firm, re-married, and I just got back from the Amalfi coast in Italy, where we celebrated our 1 year anniversary. Life is SO much more enjoyable and remarkably less complicated when you don’t have to spend so much time, effort and mental capacity dealing with (and fixing! and spackling!) the chaos that these narcissists impose upon themselves and everyone around them.

    These people do not change, and while they will continually try their damnedest to portray an image that their life is grand and wonderful — it is a complete and total lie. It will implode, it always does.

  • Karma can come at any time.

    The Fucktard’s marriage to his trollop imploded two years after our divorce was final. One reason could have been that Fucktard and his University employer were sued for defamation by (drumroll, please) his trollop’s OM. It seems that when Fucktard discovered he had competition, he sent a highly disparaging email university-wide, accusing the OM of dishonesty, impropriety, and incompetence, resulting in the OM losing his job. The University ended up settling the lawsuit and firing Fucktard under such a cloud that he would never teach again.

    Fast forward ten years. I read Fucktard’s obituary, dead at 57. I drop a note to his former mentor asking what happened? It turns out that after his lifetime of compulsive tanning resulted in skin cancer, Fucktard developed a painful degenerative neurological condition and had been living the past 6 years in various institutions, with occasional visits home under 24 hour care. He’d become so flat out mean and addicted to pain meds that no one could tolerate him.

    Sometimes the Karma Bus even comes around for seconds.

      • Sylvia, I didn’t see it until the phone started ringing saying it was in a national magazine. So I pulled it up and read it and pinched myself. By then the congratulations were pouring in. You can list your phone again, go on Fazeboog, stop looking over your shoulder. What I felt was incredible relief that the Fucktard could not toy with me ever again. And, okay, a good bit of straight out joy because I was packing for my remarriage cruise and I’d been freed forever from the evil that was the Fucktard before embarking on that journey. He’d actually died months before, but I’d hidden so well I wasn’t found by his family.

  • Hi Hopeful:

    I just wanted to chime in to lend my support.

    I’m celebrating my divorce next month. Unfortunately, I had to cohabitate with CheaterX until the settlement came through. I moved out in April, and yes, I feel so much better!

    Right now, your focus is rightly on the legal battle. You ask when to cut bait. This is a tough question to answer. My answer is that revenge is a dish best served cold. That means working toward the best post-divorce financial and family situation you possibly can get, given your state’s laws.

    Work with your lawyer and a divorce financial planner on the financial stuff. Be okay with letting go of anything that’s not a family heirloom or of strong sentimental value. Project the impression that you are “letting” him get stuff that you don’t value. For custody, see what you can get, but be ready to accept the shit sandwich of 50/50 with the plan to revisit it if CheaterX can’t keep to his side (you have to follow the decree to the letter, but if he doesn’t….). I found that if I allowed CheaterX to feel he’d “won” on the big issue of the house, he completely overlooked other aspects of the settlement .

    With respect to karma, I think that you still need to defer to the whole cold revenge notion. The settlement I achieved was good enough to set me up for financial security in my retirement. That was my main priority.

    How is this karma? Well, as others have pointed out, there doesn’t have to be a universal grand design that punishes bad people and reward good people. The sun shines on both the just and unjust, after all. However, past predicts the future. My CheaterX made some very bad financial decisions, and he just married Schmoopie, who has a track record of collections and bankruptcy. Unless CheaterX wakes up to smell the coffee, he’s going to continue along the same path of poor decisions, and Schmoopie will urge him on by demanding he spend money on her.

    Even so, I’ve blocked her on Facebook so I can’t see the karma bus when it hits. I tel myself that it’s not my circus, not my monkey. The longer I go without peeking in on their lives, the easier it is to focus on mine, and yes, I’m doing much better both physically and emotionally.

    Hang in there!

  • I wouldn’t know if the karma bus hit him because, after I caught him with a 7-11 phone just for Schmoopie, he never talked to me again. But I do know this – he has seen our son only twice in more than 16 months. His beloved father has dementia and doesn’t know his ass from his elbow. He has been to alcohol detox twice since he left (in addition to the three other times when he was bouncing back and forth between us). He totaled his car. He needs knee replacement, shoulder replacement and (further) spinal surgery. He (thinks) he has prostate cancer. He lives in his shop in NY (no shower there, ugh!) because he can’t get rid of his business so he commutes back and forth to FL where schmoopie bought a house for them. So all those comments to me: even a word can get you hard; why can’t you lose weight for me; it’s boring having sex with just one person for 30 years; (on our anniversary, referring the Schmoopie) “I’m in a relationship and trying to make it work.”; “you would like her”; “she is the most honest person I know”; “I hurt her too and I have to make it up to her”; “you should watch porn by yourself”; “if you were sick, I would push you to the curb”; “if you died I would remarry right away”; “you spent all the money”; “my family doesn’t like you”; “our friends don’t like you”; “our son understands why I cheated because you are such a nag”. This is just a sampling. Anyway, I got all the debt in the divorce, but I also got my house and my 401k and not a dime from him. I am not a fan of mediation in these circumstances. These liars and cheaters can’t and won’t come to the table honestly. They won’t do the right thing. You can count on it. My lawyer told me to let go and walk away because all the forensic accounting in the world couldn’t get back the cash I could prove he took. He said these people “spiral down” and I would get nothing. So I walked away and my divorce was final in seven months. So, meh? Not quite yet but getting there. Karma bus? Hoping for it but I may never know if it happens.

    • Lostandfound,
      Those hateful, repugnant comments are abuse, period. And he never talked to you again?

      That always stuns me. Who ARE these people?

      It is okay if you never know if any bad things happen to him, because getting away from someone with a snake mouth like that….that is one of the biggest wins of your life.

      Believe that.

    • Lostandfound–Wow. Your X was an abuser of the worst sort. I’m glad your lawyer pegged him for who he was, and allowed you to escape quickly and with your retirement intact. Hugs!

  • In the beginning, I wanted both my ex husband and ex friend to pay for what they did to me and our kids. Now, I realize that they will pay just for being the lazy, theiving, manipulative, and cowardly people that they are. Since OW thinks he hung the moon and he can’t take responsibility for any of his failures, he has to find someone to blame. Right now, it’s me. But in another year or two, no one is going to accept that excuse anymore, so who do you think is going to be his whipping post?

    Before I confirmed he was cheating, he used to whine “I need to liiive”. He wanted to go out all the time, and I was always stuck with the kids. Well now, I’m the one living, and better that he is…much better. Even though I have the kids, the marital house and all of the marital bills. During the divorce process he barked “Not all of us can vacation in Vegas!” I’ve gone 3 times since we split, Cayman Islands, St. Thomas, Turks and Caicos…some trips with the kids too.! Because he spent most of our marriage stealing from me to give to the OW and that is cut off, the furthest he can do is walk around the block now! I was the breadwinner and he never bothered to finish college and has no real skills, and neither does she…they can’t even afford an apartment together, they live with their respective parents…he’s 40, she’s 32…..

    Best revenge truly is to live well. And for the cheaters to end up with each other.

    • Kurleegirl

      This says it all. The very business that allowed the Limited to have his affairs requires physical stamina. He’s fucking old and falling apart. The one thing I encouraged him to do repeatedly was to develop other interests so he could earn money in the warm climate he so desired.

      I offered my idea of a working retirement as I can work anywhere. And many places offer housing. This I will do by myself, for myself in a few years.

      It’s about laziness. He was always wishing and dreaming. There was no substance. I’m relieved he is out of my life.

  • Meant to say: maybe she (the OW) will get her well deserved karma and she will hear the same hurtful and abusive crap I had to put with for years.

  • The best karma story I have ever heard is not my own. However, it’s pretty good. A girlfriend that I had in college was from a broken home, 5 kids, dad left mom (her name is Fran, this is important to remember) for a fuckwit who he had a kid with..never paid child support, never w his kids, he and Schmoopie and new kid moved to a beautiful home in Hilton Head SC. Friend’s mom and 5 kids barely scraped by, house became dilapidated, not enough heating fuel in the winter, mom working 2 jobs to put food on the name it. Years later, all 5 kids were college grads. Fixed mom’s house, mom (Fran) gets a great job working for the City Treasurer, meets a nice guy, remarries, has a wonderful life and relationships with her children and grandchildren (because let’s face it, they know who was really there for them). Deadbeat Dad and his Shmoopie’s house was completely destroyed by a hurricane along with his business. The hurricane’s name? Fran. Lol.

  • Dear Hopeful,

    First, I am glad that you have this name. It reflects your faith in the successful conclusion of your shitshow.

    I was not married, (lived common-law for about 20 years) so nothing to offer re divorce.

    Re karma, I will share with you an ancient wisdom teaching (that dates back to the Middle Ages) that states that the physical realm represents only 1% of all that is truly going on in our lives. That small percentage includes all that we sense with the 5 senses, intellectual/historical, etc. data, all of Nature and the Universe ~~ you get the idea (what we, perhaps fallaciously, consider All-That-Is). The 99% occurs in an unseen realm and it is here that ALL is taken care of.

    There is often talk that Meh (acceptance/gaining a life) requires accepting injustice. Within this teaching, justice not meted out in the 1% will most certainly occur in 99%. And it is not done in the eye-for-an-eye style. For the transgressions committed in relationships my (well, no longer ‘my’) covert narc will not be punished with a failed relationship, but rather that which he holds MOST DEAR will be denied.

    So, since your name is Hopeful, perhaps you can embrace this mystical justice system and trust that a greater power and wisdom is at work on your behalf. Our egos and our will can rest after we have completely the necessary actions.

    Hugs of support to you, Hopeful, and to all of CN wounded by betrayal.

  • I’m not convinced that many people get the “tree of Karma” that destroys things that the cheater holds dear.

    Much of the destruction that eats at their lives can’t been easily seen on the surface. We all know how long they can fake being normal and happy. We all know that this person can commit terrible acts of betrayal once the kibbles run dry. We all know how well they do “impression management” for both the people close to them and the general public. If we didn’t know they were cheating/getting ready to discard us, how can we “know” cheaters and their APs are doing fine?

    Because we know people in common, I’m aware that the tree of Karma fell on Jackass’s MOW’s life, starting with their breakup, her divorce and moving to non-Jackass related areas like the passing of family members, serious illness, etc. Her kids? A mess. And she’s moved on to a single man who will cause all kinds of other issues in her life. And I take not one bit of satisfaction over any of these developments. She’s a sad person with no life skills, and my guess is that things won’t get any better for her.

    As for Jackass, he’s got a new job and a new girlfriend. She’s younger than he is and profiles more like his XWs in terms of educational level and job history. (I was a massive outlier in that respect.) But he’s changed jobs 8 times in 12-13 years. And he has 2 failed marriages and the affairs that broke them up, a number of affairs with married women before me, a failed relationship with me, and the short-lived affair with MOW. His siblings hate him. His daughter unfriended him on FB and has nothing but good things to say about her mother. And I trust that the hollow tree in my backyard has more soul than he has. No matter how shiny things look now, he’ll blow it all up. That’s what he does.

    What I see is that I am operating on a completely different plane than they are. I’ve left behind (for the most part) the issues with codependency, with fear of being alone, with not living with my own life as my central focus. I turned 65 yesterday. I’m in the final 1/4 of my life, if I live to my parents’ ages. I don’t have time for worrying about the Karma bus running over Jackass. He hasn’t changed. I have.

      • Belated happy birthday to you LAJ. You rock!

        I agree with you and Virago on the hidden consequences thing. Seen it happen.

        I’m 63,will turn 64 next month, and after a bunch of therapy, am about in the same place you are. Life is good now, and I’m loving my solo existence. Here’s to contented older ladies!

  • Nowdeadserialcheaterwife got dumped by all of her boyfriends, had her favorite online hunting grounds (Yahoo chatrooms) closed down, slipped on a carpet, broke her foot bad, acquired a serious painkiller addiction, and dies of an adverse reaction between her pills and a couple of vaccines.

    She was a serious Jesus-cheater. You tell me if karma was involved.

    • Wha? The Yahoo chatrooms shut down? Hmmm – wonder what my X is gonna do now. Hopefully slips on some carpeting,breaks his foot and dies from the Vicadin/alcohol combo.

      • i feel like the yahoo chat rooms deserve a eulogy- penthouse forum style…
        Oh well, they’ll just move onto something else- my ex used Facebook messenger for all his needs. That came in super handy when I printed everything off and leveraged it.

        • I wasn’t that smart. Dipshit left his Yahoo account up while he was mowing one day. I happen to want to get on the computer and low and behold! (This is after I found out about fuck phone and THOUGHT we were reconciling) I only opened one of the numerous messages and read “Hi, My name is Judas. I am 6’1, 240 LBS, I like to play pool and poker. What do you like to do?” (Notice no mention of BEING MARRIED!) I grabbed the computer and confronted him while he was mowing. He said “What are you doing in my personal business?” then proceeded to tackle me down in the yard to get that computer! He hid it in the shed. Next thing I know he decided to recycle THAT laptop and get his own. With his own password. I and my daughter had to go out and get our own laptops because HIS was now HIS (vs the ‘family’ laptop) and password protected. Such an asshole!

          • It’s so bad. It makes me relieved I am not married to one of these beasts.
            He tackled you?

            Please tell me you got away from him.

            • Oh yes – literally tackled me to get that laptop. And I wasn’t the one who “got away.” He rushed to the shed to ‘hide’ the laptop. Then waited for me to go in the house so he could lock the laptop in his truck until he could go to Best Buy the very next day to dispose of it and get himself another one.

    • Sorry you endured her abuse, Heatdeath. I hate the Jesus-cheaters the most. It sounds like she spiraled down in the most dramatic way once you weren’t there to hold back the dysfunction.

      • Nah, I was there the whole time. I had seen some inappropriate texts 2-3 times, but the sheer magnitude of the cheating only became apparent when I found years of chat archives in her Yahoo account after she died.

        • Oh, lord. Heatdeath you are not the first or the last to feel a gutpunch from a dead cheater. Please, please take care of yourself. Talk about not fighting fair.

  • My cheater got dumped by TWO awesome women at once when we found out about each other (she didn’t know either). He was trying to get both of us to take out a lease (in our respective names) and let him move in. Now he is still in his horrible, crappy apartment, at his horrible crappy job that he hates, whining on social media about how miserable he is, how he wants to kill himself, etc (all for attention I’m sure). Now, he is a disordered fucktard, so I have no doubt he will line up the next victims asap (if he hasn’t already), but the fact is, he doesn’t get to be with either of us. After a while of feeling terrible, both of us ladies are now living much better lives, free of his crazymaking, gaslighting ways. I’m going on some great vacations this fall, am in good health, and now have the opportunity to meet someone without NPD and cheating ways. But him? He will never change or evolve, and when his looks fade, I am quite sure that the natural consequences of his behavior will make him far more miserable than I ever could if I tried. Now, I don’t wish this on him, mostly because he is a menace to women everywhere, and I wouldn’t wish HIM on anyone. No one would be happier than me if he really did have a change of heart and become a better person through this experience. But…yeah, not fucking likely.

  • Well, I will offer a case of karma arriving …..eventually. Case in point ….sorry guys, I just can’t say “father”….so sperm donor will do. Flaming, violent, malignant narc, alcoholic for a good 20 years, then put the plug in the jug about 5 years after I left home. Covert narc mother died a few weeks after I lost my son. Serial cheater, narc sperm donor screwed over everybody unfortunate enough to be stuck with dealing with him in practically any capacity. Including me. In his old age, I moved him into my home to care for him for nigh unto a year. I wanted to give it one last try, and in my book, that’s what family does for one another. Told him one of the prerequisites was that he contribute to groceries and pay the light bill. So…..I’m working my butt off to keep everything going. Working full time, cooking, cleaning, laundry, taking him to a myriad of doctor appointments, meds, foot care, hair cuts…… You know the drill. In his state of dementia thinks he can hop in a car and drive home, and we’re talking 2,000 miles actually. Long story short, he gets pissed off that I say no to his buying a car. Then he decides I am taking advantage of him asking him to contribute to the household. Problem is that I actually really do need the money in order to feed him and keep the lights on. He tries physical intimidation. I tell him, don’t even think about it. He decides to go back to his house, that his former girlfriend and her common law hubby are living in, 2,000 miles away. He’s done with me, I’m horrible, wants nothing to do with me for the rest of his life….yadda, yadda, yadda.

    I put him on a plane and he manages to get back to his home city, moves in with ex girlfriend and SO and they take over his care. He then winds up in assisted living after VA steps in because he is exhibiting signs of neglect. He becomes violent as dementia robs him of his ability to con and eventually he winds up in the psych ward at a VA hospital. No one cares to visit, phone, or get involved. He finally decides to try one last hoover on me after six years of shunning me. Unfortunately for him, my phone is not working that day and it goes to voice mail. After thinking it over I opt not to call back. Six months later he dies alone. I have to settle his estate long distance. Surprise! As his only child, I inherit everything. His gold digger girlfriend gets nothing. I do tell her that she can live in his house rent free until the county takes it for the back taxes he was too special to pay for twenty years. I tell her that is to thank her for helping him. She is angry she didn’t get any money.

    I tried to do the right thing by him, because that is who I am. Lest you think I’m a heartless wench, this was the guy who made my childhood a living hell. Neglect, many beatings, emotional abuse, you name it. I survived in spite of my parents rather than because of them. I wanted to return good for evil, and got played one last time. So he got no call back.

    No one was more shocked than me when a lawyer called to say that there was a nice chunk of change waiting for me.

    And that is my karma story. Some cheater narcs actually do get their just deserts, it just takes a while.

    • Tessie, you rock! Think you’re a heartless wench? Quite the contrary. You tried harder than most people would’ve. You deserve every penny you got from the SD and then some.

    • Tessie – You are DA BOMB! You totally deserved that inheritance, and it was the Universe’s way of rewarding you for being such a great person! And he is a sperm donor, as a father is the person who actually does the job of raising a child in a good way. You turned out awesome from what I read in your posts. Your post made my heart feel warm, as I thought to myself, I love it when good things happen to good people! Yay Tessie!

    • Tessie–there is not enough money in the world to compensate you for an awful childhood, and your subsequent marriage, but I know you will get more life out of that inheritance than any other mortal! Congratulations!

  • Hopeful, I feel the same way about my STBX. I want him to experience every ounce of pain, heartache. and misery he inflicted on me and those who loved him! This is completely normal and battling his ass in court naturally creates more anger. Harness that anger and dont give up- it is your best friend right now! Let that anger propel you to take every penny from him, that is what really hurts these narcissistic assholes. I am still in the first year, so I haven’t seen the karma bus hit my ex yet. However, I was talking to my therapist about karma and he said that it always comes back around to the cheater, that they don’t get away with it in the end. He had his own story of the karma bus and it was great! His wife cheated on him and married the other man. Years later she finds out her smookie is gay! She traded in a loving, caring husband for a man who lied and betrayed her, just like she had done so many years ago. I know its hard to wait for these guys to reap what they sow, but they always do. Hang in there and keep fighting. You are not alone in this battle!

    • Yep! The karma bus hit my dad. As far as I’ve heard from my siblings, my mom was a great mom. My dad was a serial cheater and alcoholic. I was two I think when he left his four children and wife. Moved out of state and hooked up with some women. Didn’t marry her, but they had two kids together. Left her and hooked up with another women. Moved in with her and took care of her kids (I think she had four) all the while he NEVER financially took care of his own kids. He’d even come into town and never visit us kids. We’d find out after he left that he was in town. He ended up marrying this woman and of course SHE CHEATED ON HIM! Karma! Sad sausage was devastated. He then hooked up with another woman and they dated for years. She thought they had some special. Ha! New sparkly supply came along and he discarded the other woman and was married to the new supply fast. Now he has many health issues and he’s taking care of his wife who has dementia(and I truly feel bad for her as she was a sweet woman to me always.) And we his first kids who he left and never financially supported have to see and hear his comments ( sad sausage) that he never sees his grandchildren, yada yada. Sorry, man. But you were the one who left and moved far away from your own children.

      And I remember to this day my apprehension marrying my now ex. This was after I read the Love Letters his gal pal in England sent him saying that “they could spend the whole night together and have sex if he visited her in England.” And he denied up and down that she was “just a friend.” His first of many lies to me! Stupid me believe him, but I never 100% sure of him after that and his first devalue and almost discard of me even before we got engaged. I remember saying to my now ex, “I’m so afraid that you are like my father.” And he said to me, “I’m nothing like your father.” Just another lie I believed.

      I’m curious how many of us chumps married our fathers or mothers?

        • I married my mother when I married the cheater. For sure. She wasn’t a cheater but she was narcissistic enough to compete with her own daughters when we grew up.

  • For me, longing for something bad to happen to the X is a form of breaking no contact. I simply cannot go there.

    When I was researching, checking, peeking, playing Sherlock…this would inevitably lead to a sad, miserable day for me. Seeing him slither out of another scrape was not adding any happiness to my life. I wanted him to suffer…now! And the universe was not complying and I would be frantic and sad.

    Why? Because the focus is still on HIM. My footing is still too fragile. I cannot worry about are the forces of the universes whipping his beautiful behind. I cannot control it, and for me…that way madness lies.

    I don’t cozy up well with any type of magical thinking. When I see “BLESSED!” license plates and such, I just want to vomit because…that little girl in North Korea eating bark and worms…..why is she not BLESSED?

    But what I do know, (a small hook to hang our hats on) is that disordered people do two things consistently:
    1) Make bad decisions
    2) Never learn from those bad decisions.

    Will the law of averages catch up with these low impulse control, entitled jerks? Probably.

    So, where is good news? It is not this: He knows what he is missing!

    No, I don’t think he does or cares. I believe that if Jason (don’t worry…he doesn’t read, nor would he care) truly valued and loved me, he would NOT HAVE cheated and partied and shit all over us. When he wants something, he will go through a concrete wall to get it. Once I broke up with him, he just kept on partying and whoring. His attempts to win my heart or forgivenessback, in terms of effort, on a scale of 1-10…. barely a 1.

    That is a knife in my gut. But reality.

    What are we left with? The best part: I don’t live in a state of confusion, fear and uncertainty anymore. I am not actively loving and nurturing someone who was making a fool of me with drug whores. I don’t wake up and obsessively check my phone to see if he called or texted.

    *I don’t live in a state of low level fear and anxiety…that he somehow…always generated, even when he was lavishing me with sex, gifts and affection.

    In the end, to achieve any joy or peace, ALL the focus has to come off him and our X(s)….even wishing for their harm.

    They are like the Tar Baby in the briar patch- any contact with them and you are going to be in a world of hurt.

    • Sylvia, you are going to be okay. As so many have pointed out already, hearing that the Karma Bus has rolled over your cheater can take a while, and in any event that is just icing on the cake. Moving yourself from a state of confusion, fear and uncertainty is a good start at balancing the scales. Making a peaceful, joyful life for yourself, on your own terms, and living it well is what it’s really about. And that has nothing to do with your ex.

      • Dear Survivor, Thank you for reaching out. When someone gives you personal support, it is like a tea light, showing me the path or holding my hand.

        Boy, I hope so. The ache of missing him at times is cellular. We really used to have a wonderful time. It is a little different for me…we did not have a long slow swan song. We (or I was) were in active, massive lust and longing. To see his face…I felt like I had won the prize. Some prize.

        It does get slightly….number…everyday. I will never understand how he did not value me. In one million years. I did my absolute best. And it did not matter.

        • You’re right Sylvia, put the focus on YOU! Focus on your well being and your happiness.
          I’m glad to read that you can see the benefit of him being gone.

          And you’re also right about something else: “The ache of missing him at times is cellular.”
          It’s an addiction, at cellular level. Try to read about peptides and how to heal from this addiction.

        • That’s so interesting to me. I just recently watched 45 Years, which is basically a look at how a long hauler marriage can compete against a romance that was cut down in its prime (due to death) and how the grip of pain and sadness haunts people when a relationship ends while still in the fresh shiny stage.
          My personal relationship was a slow arduous death by a thousand tiny cuts, but I can only imagine what I’d have been dealing with if the cheating had happened when I still thought he was Zeus.

  • Until the karma bus hits, I will continue to look at my ex as a sad, empty man who abandoned two little kids. Also, the divorce has taken a toll on him so he has lots of grey hair and looks older. In fact, he’s kinda creepy now. 🙂

  • Ah, Hopeful, Honey. As far as I can tell, 3 years out… . It gets A LOT better, but it never gets 100%. (At least for me.) If you are in any way entangled with your former (or soon to be former) fuckwit, dick drizzle, deplorable-whorable, or whatever, it’s the song that never ends. Mine has just flared a bit since wasband covers some x-penses, and is holding back in an annoying but not fatal way. Gee, do I ever want to give him a piece of my mine!!

    Then, I remember how many pieces of my mind, my heart, and other assorted body parts he’s already had (cue Janis Joplin…) and I decline to give him the centrality of any more of me.

    Done, finito, not gonna waste time worrying about anything that won’t involve lawyers, and if it will, I have a terrific one.

    Thinking about him, like any of the other narcissists in my life, I take some solace from knowing that they have to live with themselves for the rest of their natural lives, and that’s a horrible thing. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone 😉

  • I would definitely keep fighting for a fair settlement–even though these disordered freaks can be really stubborn when it comes to dragging things out, when they finally get it through their thick skulls that you’re no longer caving in to their demands, they often reach a point where they just want to get it over with and agree to settle. It may take a while, but consider the time and money spent an investment in your financial future and hold your ground.

    That strategy worked well for me, at least. And now X is complaining about things he thought were in the MSA but aren’t, so that’s a small little piece of karma or justice right there. And I guess this story falls more into the vindication column, which I think is closely related to karma in the sense of wanting to see some sort of justice.

    X tried taking his smear campaign against me to our son’s school back when he was trying to get full placement, which he did not get. I’ve always been anxious, though, wondering if he might have gotten some traction with it and if the teachers believed his lies about me. At a recent parent-teacher conference he engaged in his usual pompous mansplaining, which is always met with rapt attention and praise at his work since he is a muckety muck in his field that many people owe their careers or hopes for a future career to. I sat there wondering, “Is it just me, or is he coming across as a world-class asshole?”

    He left the conference early because he always has urgent meetings to attend, which the fate of nations depend on. That gave me the opportunity to speak one-on-one with the head of our son’s school, who, before I could even start the conversation, said, “I just have to say that you have my sympathies–you would not believe the rude emails I’ve been receiving from this man, demanding x, y, and z and telling me to do a, b, and c.” I wanted to say, “Oh yes I can believe it,” but I took the high road, thanked her for her time and support, and left.

    Just as I was out of the office but still within earshot, I heard one of the teachers launch into the most hilarious and spot-on impression of my X and his bloviating, which elicited huge guffaws from everyone else who had been at the meeting. It was all I could do not to walk back into the office and launch into my own impression of him, but I didn’t. I didn’t even have the urge to tell him about it, which is the latest stop on the road to Meh. As CL and others have said, the closer you get to Meh, the less you will even care about karma. It’s a good feeling.

  • We weren’t married. I invited him to live with me. Eventually I learned who he was and who he wasn’t. My home is ‘upscale’, 4500 sq’, full workout room, pool, horse stables and horses on 15 acres, enviable vehicles- all of which he had access to. I paid for everything…..

    I had to have him evicted because he wouldn’t leave and no one was willing to take him in/help him.

    He went directly to the local homeless shelter in the nearby big city…oh, wait. Before he got to the homeless shelter he was picked up by the popo and spent 90 days in jail for having broken his larceny probation (that unbeknownst to me, he was on prior to meeting him).

    His brother had arranged for all of his possessions (he had tons of very expensive designer clothes, shoes, watches, luggage and furniture) put in a storage unit, paying 3 month’s advanced rent. He was unable to pay the ensuing rental fees and all of his stuff was sold by the storage company for pennies on the dollar.

    He eventually ended up in a cheap apartment in a less than stellar area of town. There was a fire which damaged several apartments, including his. Whatever he owned by then was damaged. (I suspect he–and his drunkeness) were the cause of the fire).

    Right after the fire he called me in an attempt to weasel his way back into my lap of luxury but it didn’t work.

    In January of 2014, I became aware of his having been arrested for DWI with a bac over two times the limit. He got 2 yrs probation with an interlocking device installed in his car–now, that’s gotta be a chick magnet, right?

    I have no idea what’s happening in his life now…other than I notified all the dating sites of his alcoholism, history of assaults and other unsocial behaviors and they all banned him for life. No way for him to easily search for his next victims–hehe.

    I call him POP–Predatory Opportunistic Parasite

  • I had to go to trial with snake. We should have been able to settle but he felt far too entitled to “his” money to be reasonable and fair. So be it. The way he dragged shit out cost me tens of thousands-not in legal, but his mismanagement of money, rising real estate prices for me, etc.

    Whatthe fuck ever.

    Unlike snake, I understand the concept of having enough money. I am content with what I have now. I can manage without expensive vacations and shit. My joys are simpler these days, and I am at peace.

    Him? The loss of half “his” assets will fester in his soul to the day he dies. He will still be living a lifestyle in retirement that most people can only dream about, but it will never be enough for him, because I got my half. He will be eaten alive with hate and resentment and bitterness because he’s a selfish greedy and entitled fuckwit.

    That’s the karma I imagine because we are completely and blessedly NC.

    In another twist, snake did his best in the devalue and discard phases to demean me for growing older, despite the fact he’s almost 9 years older than I am. Free of that mindfuck, I am now seeing a man almost 9 years younger, and I am comfortable with the age difference. Go figure-I should have been an insecure puddle of neurosis, but I feel good and happy and well-matched with my younger man….

    Life does get better.

    • wow, SnakebitNoMore! Congrats on your love life! You seem to have it all figured out.
      So your half is 18 years younger than your X? THAT must really irk him. Trust that he knows about it. And as you say, he is dying with jealousy. Ha ha ha!

  • Hopeful,

    I wish I had some Karma story. I don’t, because I have no idea what my SBXH does or how his life is.
    What helped me though was to think beyond myself, beyond my pain and losses.
    I tried to think of his situation:. He had it all: beautiful wife, perfectly healthy son, a home, both of us hold good jobs. Not perfect, but we were well.
    He ruined everything for a prostitute.
    What he has now? he is living with the pro and her 11 years old, autistic son. She cannot have more children.
    He lost his own son and will see him twice a year.
    He got 1/3 of our home, he pays rent while also paying the rate to the bank.
    He lied everyone that he left me. How is he explaining that he lost his son?
    My conclusion is simple: it must suck to be him!

    But these ideas about how he sucks are not keeping me warm.

    What helped me was to pray. In those moments of despair, I prayed, I needed guidance. And somehow I found ways, I figured out what to do next. Step by step, and now, 8 months later, I am almost out of the mess.
    This is not about him. This is about YOU. It is your journey. Find your strength, find your path.
    I’m sending you hugs.

    • Enraged,
      Women who turn tricks get addicted to the “easy” money. It is just so much quicker to polish off a knob than, say…stand on your feet for 10 hours at the market, checking out groceries.

      We cannot fathom it, but it is well documented. Even in the developing countries, the UN sets up foundations for sex workers and trys to teach them a skill. When I was in Cambodia, I meet a NGO worker who told me that many of these women “run away” from the rehab homes…right back on the street.

      Your X’s prostitute, and you may not believe this, but a dollar to a doughnut, she is still tricking. It is like a sickness. Can you contemplate how twisted their dynamic is? I hope your X is not a jealous man, because her sex partner count would probably be in the thousands.

      I was shocked when I discovered many prostitutes are married and their husbands know what they do, and want them to keep making the money. Little different than a pimp.

      His life would be worse than sucking…it would be a living hell.

      • That is why so many strippers/prostitutes that deliberately choose these professions have borderline personalities and also end up with narcs or sociopaths. Narcs and sociopaths don’t mind how their wife or girlfriend makes a living as long as she provides for them. The depraved lifestyle is a plus.

  • My ex handled all of our finances for 20 years (I know, my mistake, but he was an accounting grad and so he jumped on it right after our college days). When our marriage ended, I had a steep learning curve, not only in getting up to speed on paying bills and balancing the checkbook but also handling all of the bookkeeping for my business – which he’d also done. He was condescending when I asked for help, but reluctantly, I got his minimal assistance. I think he was surprised by how quickly I got the hang of it on my own.

    But what’s “karmalicious” was that within weeks of leaving me, he had his identity stolen online by clicking on a bad spam link. Guess I wasn’t the one who needed the help when it came to handling the finances after all!

  • I don’t know if this is karma or just plain bad luck, or perhaps the stress of cheating for 3 yrs behind my back did it, as well as the stressful divorce.
    But, the day the D papers were filed, he got a diagnosis of Prostate cancer and the whole thing had to come out.
    Doubt the whore hung around after that.

  • My heart goes out to anybody that has cancer and I did not mean to be mean at all.
    But, the ‘funny’ thing about cancer, the longer you remain in a very stressful emotional situation (with your STBX, for instance) it WILL wear down your health. The mind is a funny thing.

  • I don’t know if I believe in Karma. I like to think of it more as consequences for bad choices. My Ex gave me no warning that anything was up. He just told me that he had met the Thing, was sleeping with her so I kicked him out. I had a 3 year old and an 8 month old at the time. I was still on maternity leave. He left me with massive debts that he had run up in my name. He went bankrupt and left me with no equity in the home and 10 maxed out credit cards with no income. As there were no assets we just signed the orders for me to keep the house as there was negative equity, end of story. Well wouldn’t you know that almost from the day we signed the papers house prices in my country started to climb and climb and climb. I had to live on nothing to keep that house but once the value went through the roof I was able to refinance, pay the cards off and end up with a nice chunk of equity. He got NOTHING. He deserved nothing. I begged him to keep paying half the mortgage but he refused. Went on holidays with her, concerts, stayed in motels while the kids and I were barely able to eat. The Thing harassed me by e-mail and text. No Contact. I just kept being Mighty. I went back to work full-time, paid of his creditors because of his failed business, I painted and repaired the home that he let run into the ground and I just put one foot in front of the other every day despite my shock and pain. Now I have the kids almost 100%, all our friends took my side, I take the kids on holidays and great days out. My life has never been better. Shmoopie is unemployed, they’ve moved 4 times and he is miserable. They are in debt again and have no friends. I once said to him ‘May we both get the life we deserve’ AMEN.

    • MovingonUP-
      YOU have amazing reserves of strength and power. Your struggle impressed me.
      Well done!!!
      I hope they both rot. These OW who terrorize the spouse…I lose my civility.

  • I’m not sure this is quite in the karma category, but it’s definitely in the “shoulda thought of that, huh?” category. Ex relocated to CA in 2011, with plans for me to follow when I got a job. I got knocked up instead of hired, and proposed that I would stay home with baby and we could buy a house since real estate was affordable. That was all way too much commitment for ex and fatherhood was too scary, so it didn’t happen. Fast forward to today, and ex is whining about child support, the cost of the new baby with the OW, and skyrocketing rent and real estate that is pushing them out of CA. Had he not been an unreasonable jack ass, we would have been sitting on upwards of $400K in equity, zero child support and visitation costs, and the ability to move anywhere and be very financially secure. But no, it was way more fun to shop that penis around and be broke! Very, very poor planning on his part.

  • I realized I must be at meh!! I have no wish for karma to hit either of my Xs. I feel pity for both of them. Maybe that’s why I’m a chump but as I see it , they had something wonderful (me) and they both chose to screw it up. I wish nothing but happiness and peace to them – but knowing their personalities I doubt either of them will ever be happy. Oh well. Not my problem.

  • Aaaahhhh Karma, such a magical word and is truly a wonderful thing for those who deserve it. My STBX and his Whore-worker thought they were so much better then everyone else, smarter and it was true love!! How can they be denied, even though both are married! My STBX was an upstanding man, no record, paid his bills on time, he didn’t lie, cheat or steal. Any one person that you met who knew my STBX would praise how outstanding of a man he was. He opened doors, helped old ladies, chopped your wood, fixed your car and literally would take his shirt off of his back if you were cold. But……..the glamorous life of the whore came a knocking. She couldn’t wait to weave her tales of woe so he could feel sorry for her. Like McDonalds, her legs were open 24-7 and his dick couldn’t help but fall into her vagina. She came with a record, FTA’s and unpaid court fees, her husband has a rap sheet including an arson arrest, one son in jail for murder and another one that posts pics of himself and his drug use. If your going to get a whore, you might as well set your standards to low, cause that’s where your going anyway.

    • KeepTheWhore

      Her ticket out. These are desperate needy women. I used to tell Going Nowhere the women he picked up repeatedly made bad choices.

      Now I know better. He was always the predator, the puppet master. The whores were vulnerable and in awe of his acting skills. It’s doubtful she was the first. They hide and we make them look good.

      • Doingme,
        – desperate needy women ✔️
        – He was always the predator✔️
        – the whores were vulnerable and on awe✔️
        – it’s doubtful she was the first✔️
        – they hide and we make them look good. ✔️

        They are all alike.

        • Knight in shining armor syndrome. Feeds the narc ego because he is going to saaaaaaave her. Two convicted felons, a drug dealer and several out of work recovering alcoholic girlfriends later, don’t ask me how I know this.

  • Hopeful.

    Looking back I see the bus in the rear view mirror. Cheaters take care of their own needs.

    Take care of yours. Decide what’s important in the divorce to support those needs. For me it was my pension, my car and the contents of my home.

    Poor choices guided his life. He said he couldn’t get anywhere with me. Without me he has achieved his dreams.

    He lives with a mentally ill drug addicted whore who has such severe issues my children refuse to be in her presence. He lives in a second floor dump and spends his nights drinking at dive bars where the patrons are drunks. He is in more debt now, can’t get a loan, and takes out loans using credit cards. They have shiny cars with poor ratings and can’t afford gas.
    He will be sixty on his next birthday and will never have the ability to enjoy his retirement.

    Take care of your needs.

  • Ok, I do have story, although I am working towards meh and really don’t want to wish my ex harm or even think about him.

    But….. after finding out my psychotherapist husband had a secret S&M sex addiction which involved going to sex workers at lunch time, and… after a nasty divorce in which I finally signed a confidentiality agreement — I can’t publish a memoir about him or go to his board of ethics with a complaint…
    Did I mention that to be with him I had sold my house, quit my job, and moved to another state? Anyway, I’m back in my old state, with a new house and job, and definitely moving on, But… He was out biking a month ago and got hit from behind by a van. Sent me a list of his injuries — 3 broken ribs, fractured vertebrae, knee, pelvis, etc. Was I supposed to feel terrible for him? I didn’t feel glad or terrible — I felt nothing.

  • Ouch! Life’s a bitch, ain’t it? Finding out your apathy would probably be as bad as the accident itself. (All your fault, of course.)

  • I don’t think Fucktard is capable of understanding his own mistakes, much less the concept of Karma coming for him. He is just an aw shucks country boy, after all.
    But I do think he will get his if for no other reason than he can’t change who he is. I am writing a list of things I hated/was highly annoyed about him. The list is at 78. He has no sense of humor. He is arrogant, but can’t see it. He is disliked if not out and out hated by his coworkers. His family are disgusted by him. His only friend is Cunt Face – and she is a psycho narc herself. He has never and I imagine will never understand why things don’t go his way. And without me in his life, a lot of things are no longer going his way. He will bring every bad habit and deplorable personality flaw with him into his grand romance. And CF is also a child abusing psycho in her right so there is bound to be some insane fighting between them if they stay together.

    So yes…..he and CF (who is in line for muli million dollar settlement in her own divorce) will not face the financial problems that I am, he no longer has the respect of our children, he doesn’t have people who love and care for him enough to go out of their way for him. He has been outed as a selfish, slimy, piece of shit that would cheat his wife and abandon his children for young, rich strange. Now that hurts him. Barely.

  • Hopefull,

    It’s late so I haven’t read all the comments. Actually I’m a few days behind on reading the daily comments but I’ll try to contribute something.

    My karma came from me staying alive. As many here know, after D-Day, I was in a bad car accident that left me partially paralyzed. At the beginning, it wasn’t known what parts of me had been affected neurologically and if I would die or possibly need a nursing home.

    I’ll never NEVER forget seeing the look on my husband’s face and just knowing he wanted me to die. He would have zero problems, really, if I did. No divorce, no custody issues, life insurance, all our money and assets.

    All I could think of was dying and leaving my young children in the care of my husband who was totally self-absorbed and would never do anything to help our children. I was so frightened. I shook and cried hysterically many many times. S L O W L Y…I recovered and I would not die any time soon or live in a nursing home.

    It took me so long to get back to any kind of normal. It was two steps forward and one and a half steps back. My husband is/was lazy but I wasn’t. I actually finally caught up. My kids have a normal mom who walks funny but can still drive and see them to high school both at the top 5% of their classes.

    I slapped my husband divorce papers on my birthday and went no contact for the most part.

    I handled everything our whole marriage. All the bills, all the repairs, everything for the kids, all the school events, my husband never took any interest in anything to do with his family.

    Everything I did after my accident was painful physically and very hard but the look on his face when I was the one who had the upper hand was worth every miserable second.

    No more golf channel, no more snoring and bad breath, no more cleaning his disgusting toilets, no more listening to his boring days that were filled with lies….and I lived to see it!!

    My family is loaded with narcs and my two best friends turned out to be cheaters as well so I lost them amongst all the trials and tribulations but I’m me again. I have self esteem again and joy.

    I see people look at me struggle to walk or do things with one arm and they pity me. I know a few people that know me personally think I “lost” or my life didn’t turn out so well. I don’t have my good paying job or my house and many other material things along with a few old freinds. I wish I could tell them that I am happier than I have been in 25 years. I AM SO MUCH BETTER OFF!! And relaxed!

    I guess I wouldn’t call my story karma but my husband is such a boring person and so uniformed about the substance of life, the fact that he has to live with himself is karma.

    If you stood my now ex husband and myself side by side, you would guess he has the better life. A nice car, a decent enough job….but I KNOW I am the one with the better life. I am filled with joy often and no longer fear death. I am 100% present in my children’s lives and now they are old enough to know that.

    I’m an agnostic but I do remember sitting in back of my bathtub one day with the shower beating down on me and I was crying so hard – just sobbing uncontrollably at how I would give anything not to leave my children to grow up with their father without me around. I felt cheated in every way. Rock bottom in the bathtub. BUT, my “wish” or “prayer” was granted and I am immensely grateful every single day.

    Life can change in an instant. For anyone. My advice would be to keep your eye on the prize and realize that setbacks are exactly that. Setbacks.

    If I can crawl out of the deep hole I was in, anyone can.

    ((((Big hugs))))

    • ” I have self esteem again and joy…. I am filled with joy often and no longer fear death. I am 100% present in my children’s lives…”

      That is a huge and very real victory. So happy for you and your children that you survived all of that suffering and are thriving.

  • My xh left suddenly to live with “his brother”… I GPSed his ass and went to the apartment complex it took me to. Dumb ass took OUR parrot to this love shack…
    How did I confirm apartment # and his living there? Well, I cleared my throat and sang; “WHO lives in a pineapple under the Sea?!?”

    “SPONGEBOB!!!!!” my poor parrot cried through a door. Yup, with apartment # – I dumpster dove and got her name (they ripped it off all correspondence name/address – except ASPCA card… I called it Dr. Doolittle karma…) P.I. said I did it faster and better than he ever could.

    2 hours later, her husband knew, poor bastard.. – six hours later– Bird is back. Birdie has been home ever since…

    • I also sold family home myself – saving $39,000 in commission, bought a smaller house in nicer town – added $20,000 (well, now $30,000 from settlement, I just learned how to and rewired the home.) It appraised $100,000 more than I bought it for 6 months before! Probably $110,000 in equity I could sell for cash – that first figure was before upgraded electrical and stone veneer on front.

      So, karma? {hard work, research and opportunity more like it.} I like karma.

      • WOW!

        I so want to rewire my house!! Damn, that’s awesome.

        Karma is that idiot cheater not getting to benefit from your rewiring capabilities.

        Well done!

    • That is my favorite cheater detective story ever! He was given up by the parrot; truth really is stranger than fiction! Well-done, Mag.

    • Probably the best cheater v. amateur PI I have ever heard. You are mighty and you parrot deserves a golden perch. Cheater can go live under a cinder block under the sea…

      • I cannot tell you how much this comment made my day about the parrot. I can’t belly laugh, however, it is just very sad.

        How did I confirm apartment # and his living there? Well, I cleared my throat and sang; “WHO lives in a pineapple under […]

  • My ex was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer just four months after our divorce and moving in with Schmoopie. She tried to wrangle my kids into coming to Florida to take care of him. They declined. They let him and her know that just a few months before they had totally ignored my surgeries for lung cancer. My ex told my kids that they would have to “handle” my health issues! After his recovery from his surgery Schmoopie dumped him! Now he is unemployed, sick, old and bitter! Sucks to be him! Me? I bounced back pretty well! Just a note, hope Schmoopie is enjoying evacuating for Hurticane Matthew right now!

  • Hi, Hopeful –

    I know we all get tired of hearing this, but you need to take really good care of yourself right now. Whatever that looks like. Exercise, eat well, take long hot baths with shallow magazines (occasionally I add a beer to this activity), call your friends, treat yourself out to lunch, order Chinese food delivery, get out of town for just a day.

    I remember nearing the end of my divorce and feeling like I just couldn’t do it one more day. It had been 11 months. I couldn’t wait until Friday at 5:00 so I knew I could open my email for the weekend without an email from the attorney. It’s truly the most grueling and exhausting thing I’ve ever been through. I was out of emotional energy, in a county with close to a year wait for a court date, and ended up settling in mediation. For me, I think it was a good choice because I just needed to be done. I think the only thing that would have given me the energy to go to court was if cheater-ex had been fighting for custody of my son. He was so deep into his “addiction” that he didn’t even ask for any custody or decision making. That mattered to me more than the money. Bottom line is, you need to decide how much energy you have for a fight. How soon do you want to be free and start your new life of healing from the pain he has caused you? Everyone’s decision on that is different. Just know that you’ll be okay.

    There’s a line in the movie Under the Tuscan Sun that says something like… “you know what the most surprising thing about divorce is? It doesn’t ACTUALLY kill you!” I can’t remember the rest, but it’s so spot on. If you need a good cry, watch that movie. It has a great message of showing us that our dreams can still come true after divorce, even though they may look different than we had imagined. Funny part is I loved that movie even when I thought I had a great marriage!

    As for Karma, I’ve given up on that (pretty much). Waiting for it and expecting it is an energy and time suck. I did have a few shark fantasies when I saw his latest email picture, tan and fit smiling on a paddle board in the ocean. I don’t know what your spiritual beliefs are, but my counselor told me “you may not see it on this side of heaven”. I’m such a chump that I’ve actually had to grieve the idea of him going to hell! I have noticed that some consequences have happened to him over the past 4 years, such as our grown kids no longer having any contact with him. That’s enough karma for me. I can’t imagine anything worse.

    Keep going, knowing that there is life on the other side of this nightmare. The healing is slow, but living an authentic, cheater-free life is worth it!

    • Sometimes Karma is small.
      Like standing in the grocery aisle & realizing you can get crunchy peanut butter…

      • PSJM – …….’Sometimes Karma is small.
        Like standing in the grocery aisle & realizing you can get crunchy peanut butter…”

        …For your dogs! 😉

        X abandoned all 4 of my Great Danes for just me to take care of. Creamy PB – gone – Crunchy was in! Great for pills.

  • I now work in a low-paying horribly stressful job in a dangerous. hostile, unhealthy environment. As I work over 70 hours/week, I virtually never see my kids. However, my abusive (sociopathic), narcissistic, borderline, cheating STBX’s attempt to wrest custody from me by falsely claiming that I molested our youngest and stole from STBX) and get me to pay him for the rest of his life (although he makes way more than I do) backfired–I now have nearly 85% physical custody, and he has been ordered to pay not a huge amount, but enough to make him mad. I now also have a wonderful boyfriend (fellow chump and friend of 30 years). By the way, I have never expected karma to hit wrong doers.

  • My ex has not had the karma I had hoped for…yet. However, he has always been attached to the hip to his mother. His mother has been an evil woman to me the whole 20 years I was married to him. And to top it off, when he left me and moved in with his mother, his mother let him move the OW in the house with them both, and we had not even filed for divorce yet! Anyway, flash forward 2 years, and he filed a breach of divorce case against me as I have been unable to refinance the house out of his name. He is demanding the house be sold by the court, and I be sent to jail for violating the divorce agreement. He filed it on a Monday, that Friday his mother died – June 10th – our wedding anniversary date! Seems kinda spooky to me that she could have died 364 other days of the year, but kicked it on our wedding anniversary. It’s like the universe wants him to remember that day. I also saw a photo of him on someone’s Facebook page and he now has an enormous gut. He was always a thin man. Other than that, financially he has had no problems that I know of, he has bought himself and schmoopie (whom he married) a house. I will soon be homeless, looking for someplace that will rent to me with dogs and cats (good luck to me in finding a place). I barely get by financially. I am at the point now where I don’t care if Karma does something bad to him or not, I would rather that Karma to him ends up being me succeeding and recovering financially. I just want a normal safe life back.

  • I believe in Karma, and this was a therapeutic (and comical) thread to read, with a lot of laughs, tears, and head-shaking at the responses.

    Dear Hopeful,

    I believe in Karma, and hope the very best comes your way given your degree of pain. I agree that living well truly is the best revenge, however, knowing the other person who broke my heart gets his just due, does add a bit of schadenfreude and a prayer of Thanks to the universe above for helping to level things out.

    I do have a question for the others here though – for those who maintain NO CONTACT, how do you usually find out about what’s happened w/o having to ask or search? Was information trickled to you from personal sources (friends, family, social media)? Aside from the perpetrator personally trying to weasel his/her way back into your lives, how do you wound up finding out so much?

  • He’s engaged to OW now, over 3 1/2 years after he left me for her. They’re getting married “in a couple years,” which I suspect will be never. And I also suspect that he paid out the ass for that massive ring she’s sporting — and will never get it back if they split.

    Meanwhile, he pays me more per month in child support than I make at my job, I’m dating a hottie 10 years younger than me, and I look and feel better than ever. (Did I mention OW is porking up?)

  • Karma? Woo, I have a doozy for you … his apartment got taken over by mold. Not just any mold, but the most toxic hazardous mold possible on the level of anthrax. It was so bad that it sloughed off the skin on his hands and a biohazard team had to show up in hazmat suits and condemn the whole property.

    And of course, my ex’s apartment was ground zero for the mold. It got hit worse than any other apartment. I’m told the mold was so bad, the lead hazmat guy said this was the worst case he’d seen in his 30 year career.

    Ex is lucky the mold didn’t kill him, but he lost everything he owned and had to move into a hotel. A year later and he’s still in the middle of a lawsuit over what happened.