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Everyone Cheats?

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cheater_pollyannaFormer New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani spoke for everyone on the planet this week when he announced on “Meet the Press” that “everybody” cheats. The New York Times reported:

The remark came during an exchange on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” after Chuck Todd, the show’s host, asked Mr. Giuliani whether he was “the right person” to bring up former President Bill Clinton’s infidelities in this heated campaign.

“You have your own infidelities, sir,” Mr. Todd said.

“Everybody does,” Mr. Giuliani responded. “You know, I’m a Roman Catholic and I confess those things to my priest.”

The reaction from Twitter users was swift and unforgiving.

“No Rudy — not everyone does,” wrote Diana Hess, a self-described Hillary Clinton supporter.

“Um, I’ve been married for almost 20 years. No infidelities,” wrote John Bielski, whose Twitter account describes him as a labor lawyer in Philadelphia. Mr. Bielski, whose Twitter profile says he loves his wife and daughters more than his favorite sports teams, went on to ask, “Am I doing marriage wrong?”

Well, Mr. Bielski, since you asked, why yes, yes you are doing marriage all wrong. Trusting your wife, being faithful, loving your family more than your sports team, what kind of ancient relic ARE you? Didn’t you get the monogam-ish memo? Unlock the Mating in Captivity cage! Be free!

Don’t you realize how you suffer unjustly from the monogamy hegemony? You didn’t evolve to be this way, Mr. Bielski! Create a Tinder profile! Swipe right! Fuck around a little with women your daughters’ age. Model to them that this is what all men do. Tell them they could stand to lose a few pounds, and maybe if they’d been a bit more lovable you wouldn’t have done this. (Well, of course you would, but hey, they’re a little chubby.) Announce at a press conference that you’re leaving your wife, Rudy-style. Everyone does it! Priests see this all the time and they’re A Okay with it.

Chump Lady is putting down the snark now.

Mr. Bielski, you’re a national treasure. Unlike Rudy Giuliani.

Giuliani is just doing that classic blameshift from the Cheater Handbook — “Everybody cheats.” It’s so common, I have a cartoon about it. My own cheater said this to me, however, the “Don’t be a fucking Pollyanna” flourish was all his own.

The mindfuck goes like this: I’m not a freak, YOU’RE a freak! Don’t expect me to abide by rules I agree to, I’m Special. You’re a sap, that’s why you believe in commitment. Edgy sophisticated people such as myself are above such things. Do not judge me. We’re All Sinners. You yourself make coffee all wrong.

Everyone does it, ergo these rules are really silly. I’m just intelligent enough to recognize a silly rule when I see one. You’re a chump. A sheep. A go-along type. I just lie to you because you like your delusional world. To lie is a kindness really. You fail to sufficiently appreciate me.

Raise your hands, chumps, if you’ve heard this mindfuck before. Now raise your middle fingers and point them towards New York City.

Thank you.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
      • Yes, LOVE NYC, and Los Angeles, unfortunately both cities are riddled with assholes who think “lying and cheating are just part of life”.

        No, they are not any part of REAL people’s lives, TYVM. Lying and cheating are a waste of everyone’s time. Pleanty of very real, really great people, do NOT condone cheating or lying.

        • Liars and cheaters believe that EVERYONE lies and cheats.

          …until THEY’RE the one who is lied to and cheated on.

  • And this guy is supporting the Donald,a full blown loon with narcissistic personality disorder.Watching in awe and horror from the other side of the Atlantic.

    • I too got the old, “everybody does it” from my cheater. When asked just who “everybody” was in our circle of friends? Crickets.

      Not at all surprised by Rudy’s public assertion. Infidelity is so commonplace (listen to the music of all genres and age groups) and even more so in the rarefied air of celebrity and politics. Rudy thought he was stating the obvious. It was good to see all the blow-back.

      What I find funny, is that any of these moral/ethical issues are used as fodder between the two political camps. Neither candidate, is the poster child for the warm and fuzzy, white picket fence lifestyle. You’d think they would have checked those controversial issues at the door, but I guess their narcissism won’t allow it and the public also sees it as fair game. Moral relativism at play: “you lied to Congress, lied about Benghazi, had a pay to play while in office, yada, yada.”; “you don’t pay taxes, call women names, cheated on your wife, went bankrupt on some business projects, employ illegal aliens, yada, yada”.

      I wish we could go the proverbial NC with both of them!

      • no politics, please. One of these things is not true. (at least one), and they are in not way equivalent.

        It’s triggering, offensive, and deeply upsetting to read this as comment #3 this morning.

        • Well to be triggering was certainly not my intent. My apologies. This whole piece must give you the heebie-jeebies then. As a Chump, I find it cathartic to see these elites blasted by the Chump electorate for their crimes. Just pointing out that BOTH these candidates could be triggering to Chumps for longstanding and obvious reasons as portrayed in the Press. My prescription FWIW during this election cycle: Keep all media outlets shuttered if that be the case.

  • Yes, I too heard that everyone cheats. I said back to him. Tell (son) that so he can fuck up his family too. Tell (daughter) that on her wedding day. I got back crickets.

    • Mine actually said that if daughter’s new husband needed to have a ‘fling’ one day,he ( ex)
      would be understanding.It’s what men do apparently.
      He contacted me recently to say he is in process of transitioning from OW,the one he trampled on me to get to,to someone new.He needs support and a few friends around him at this stressful time and basically could I see my way to being his friend and providing that support.
      He can kiss the right hand side of my royal Irish arse.

      • Deedee – What a complete and utter douchebag. Support, my ass. Can’t believe I’m still shocked by these self-serving assholes thinking everyone is concerned with their well-being. Tell him while he’s down there to kiss the left hand side as well!

      • Sweet! I am so with you on that. U r mighty now! My how we have grown. Leave the cheaters, teach the kids by example and hope that next generation will be better- that’s evolved!

        • All cheaters will end up in Hell unless they repent to God, make amends to those they hurt and turn away from this intentional disobedience that they know is wrong. Time is short on this earth to get things right and those that don’t wake up will pay when they face God Almighty for judgement.

          With that said, I too had to repent over my resentments and anger towards my X (We’re divorced finally!) I know longer wanted to drink that poison hoping he’d Die, and finally got the verse that assured me “Vengeance is mine, says the Lord.”

          I actually pity cheaters now because I know what’s in their future if they continue.

          • What a dumbass that Rudy is. He really shouldn’t publically profess a religion he does not know. Being Catholic and going to Confession do NOTHING with the problem of our hearts. It’s the whole actions vs words crap that every Chump understands, only, this is Rudy making assumptions that his eternity will work out well for him because, “geez – I CONFESSED my infidelities!” What a moron. The problem is about what he believes he’ll be held accountable for, and how he thinks Confession takes care of it all for him.

            God knows the inner workings of his heart, and even the Sacrement of Confession means nothing when it’s a problem of the depths of one’s heart. Confession is NOT some sort of Get Out of Jail Free ticket, Rudy. Sorry.

            “But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.” Matthew 15:18

            • He’s still justifying it by saying everyone does it, confessing and being truly remorseful and asking for forgiveness is the only way beyond things. He’ll get it finally when he faces God and tries to justify it to Him!

            • Being raised in the roman catholic faith myself i remember well.

              Are you truly sorry for your sins?

              Yes.

              Take whatever penance he instructed

              His next words

              Go and sin no more.

              Guess rudy didnt hear that part.

              Asswipe blew up and raged and screamed and gets angry over the smallest things and would rage and get nasty with me. Even after he left for the whore he did it. I stopped responding, i stopped talking, he would come and be nice and ass kissing and say im sorry i got like that but you know how i get.

              I finally said to him you will no longer speak to me in that manner, you have no right and you never did and youve done this for years and i took it, i dont have to take it go bitch scream and yell at your new pussy asshole. And you are not one bit sorry cause you repeat this bad behavior over and over again. Asshole!

            • Kar Marie:

              Priest, after hearing confession: “Go and sin no more.

              KM: “Guess rudy didnt hear that part.”

              +1

              • Probably got his Catholic upbringing from George Carlin.”Coupla Hail Marys and an Our Father and you’re back on the street with Fadda Rivera!”

                Or words to that effect, it’s been a few years, and I’m in no shape to Google it today.

      • My exhole called me when his marriage to OW imploded. Guess who had been cheating on his wife again…apparently twu wuv isn’t enough to keep it in his pants either. I wish I could say I ripped him a new one..but I couldn’t stop laughing at him. He told me he called me because he needed a good friend to talk to about all of it and I had always been a good friend… This after all the shit he talked about me, all the shit he put me through, a divorce and 3 blissful years of no contact.

        They have lied to everyone, including themselves, so often that they believe everyone still loves and supports them. No matter how they’ve screwed over all those people and burned all those bridges.

        • Isn’t it amazing how delusional cheaters are? If I hadn’t gone through all that I went through I would have never believed it.

      • I’m curious about something. My ex left me for the affair partner and her YOUNG kids ( ours are 19 and 25….wtf??) I have had no hovering, no looking back from him, I’m 95% no contact unless it’s business and I’m polite in those interactions.
        Do I think he’s happy? He’s incapable of it. Do I think he’s faithful to her? Probably for the moment although we did hook up after he left and he was with her so he has no loyalty to her either.
        Do I think he will come try and seek a friendship with me and reconnect with our kids who have NOTHING to do with him if it blows up with the new schmoopie? Nope.
        I spent quite a few months telling him what a shit he is. I don’t think he would have the balls to try to be my friend or contact me.
        Herein lies the question…..does the ex still try to circle back around after a relationship implosion if you’ve made it crystal clear you think he’s a piece of shit? Don’t really see any of these self absorbed assholes risking the rejection of trying to tap a well that’s run dry.
        I’ve gotten to a place where I’m so happy in no contact so when I read stuff like this and it’s like waiting for the other shoe to drop.
        Hoping mine stays with the oblivious AP forever and away from me.

        • Some (the smarter ones, I think) don’t circle back. They know this well is dry, it’ll be less work to find a new one.
          Others are so lost in their delusions (that they’re actually good people, that there aren’t any lasting consequences for their choices, that they can get what they want just because they want it…) that they do circle back, even when we’ve been abundantly clear.
          And you know how I know that, eh?

        • I had hoped mine would leave me alone too. I was shocked when I answered the phone and it was him. I thought I had made myself crystal clear that I never wanted to speak to him again and I’d make his life hell if he tried after the divorce.

          I think he lied to so many people about what had happened with me (they all took his side) that when marriage to the OW imploded EVERYTHING was exposed as the lies they were. He had no one left that would listen to his whining about the next divorce (and he HAS to have an audience) that he decided I was just enough of a doormat while we were together that I might actually hold still for it again. *face/palm*

          I truly think he just ran out of people who would listen to his cry those crocodile tears. Which would explain his moving 5 states away to date the next girl before he was divorced from OWife. Too many people knew how he really was now. New place, new people, new and easier impression management.

          I don’t think he’ll contact you unless he’s that desperate for a on audience.

          • Feral, my ex, too, has moved far away, where no one knows him, to start afresh. He even ghosted his only long-term friend! I later realized that he had done something similar just before I met him, although I don’t think that time it was deliberate on his part. But it worked, so he did it again. And I’m betting at some point he’ll do it yet again. His (even worse narc cheater) father has done it many times in his life.

            When too many people know what an asshole you are, I guess moving away is the only thing that works! Also gets you lots of sympathy and support in your new home, and you can tell any tales you want about your past….

            • That’s very interesting to read, KarenE.

              As I’m getting distance from D-day (also facing the one year anniversary next week – seems like a milestone) I’m realizing a lot of things clearly add up to narcissism and dysfunction in x’s family that I never recognized before.

              It’s like watching ‘The Sixth Sense’ for the second time. (I see narcissistic people.)

              Anyway, x’s pattern is similar: moving and starting over making no longterm connections with anyone, superficial relationships with family members. I used to joke around that we dated for three years before I knew he had relatives (but he has a huge extended family).

              And his narc dad moved to another continent forty years ago and married a woman 20-years younger – not that this necessarily correlates but if you met my x-fil, you’d understand. He is a scary guy.

              X is very friendly, though only for a few years at a time. People love to feel they are his “special” person – his ability to love bomb is accomplished. At least that’s what hooked me (and, throughout the years, women and men (old and young) would often tell me how lucky I was to have hooked him. Two women, separately, told me I wasn’t good enough for him. It seems sad that I thought it made him special.)

              After awhile, though, his friendships just sort of faded away. He never followed up or seemed interested at all in finding out what happened to people he’d been so close to only months earlier. I put it down to male/female differences except I actually know other men, so essentially just lived with a weird feeling that I ignored.

              OTH, x has been frequenting the same barstool for three years now, with the same couple of drunks – so maybe he has finally found his tribe. Or coven.

              • “It’s like watching ‘The Sixth Sense’ for the second time. (I see narcissistic people.)” Oh man, that is hilarious, and I know exactly what you mean. Aren’t you like, “How did I not see them before?”

              • Yes! I was gobsmacked both by the ending (first time!) and the plethora of clues (second viewing!). What a great movie experience.

                Shitty when applied to life, though.

      • Dear lord… that is one for the books. I would’ve offered to help him transition to eunuch but other than that? I got nuthin’.

        • “I would’ve offered to help him transition to eunuch…” I know I should not be grinning. But that’s really funny. 😀

      • Yes he came to me we were divirced yet. I could always talk to you km your wonderful and a good listener and then proceeded to tell me his tales of woe with the whore. I was astounded asshole you mean to tell me your not yet ex dumped wife your problems with your whore? Me of all people? After damn near peeing my pants in delightful laughter. He got up stormed out muttering he thought me of all people would be kind and understanding. What a flaming fucking asshole!

          • My ex tried this as well. Right after he told me he was outta there I found out about the OW( for sure, I had suspected) in my attempt to pick me dance (ugh!!) I had conversations with him where he told me we would be BFF’s. He wanted to sleep with me on the DL, openly date her , divorce me and I should leave him all the $, and we would be great pals. Talk to me about your dates and I’ll tell you all about the AP and then well screw for fun, then I go home and think of ways to make his life better.
            This went on for a few months,then I came out of the post dumped psychosis. I stopped seeing him, lawyer’d up, fought for and got a good settlement, actual divorce is almost done. His AP called me one day to get into the injustice I was bringing on her sweet angel and I told her we had been sleeping together. I don’t know what the ensuing conversation was with them, but I was the devil to him after that and they stayed together and still are now.
            I’m glad, she can spend the next two decades sleeping with one eye open.
            I got tough pretty early on and did a lot of shit to make him uncomfortable. Don’t think he will call me. When I read that they circle back in times of distress it made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

        • The Fucktard sent a letter to my office, hoping to Hoover me back after his marriage to his younger, thinner and prettier student crashed and burned. I was completely dumbfounded. He had the big brass ones to think that I’d come running back for more after being lied to, cheated on, stolen from, and having my character assassinated after giving up 16 years of my life to him. I did not respond.

        • Deedee, FeralBlue, Karen E, Kar Marie, Survivor, and Paintwidow (sounds like yours just circled back early):

          One: entitlement, much? And at your expense again? Creeps!!!! Two, do you think if this happens, weather early or late in the game, it’s hoovering? Or are they not mentally organized enough to hoover, just desperate and flailing for the MOST familiar “comfort.” (Ugh. Users.)

          • According to what I’ve read these people on the sociopath/ narcissism spectrum can circle back for a spot of hoovering after many,many years.In my case he was with the OW for eight years but obviously setting up her replacement on the side.
            He thinks I’m still the same chump he left for the wolves all those years ago.
            Wrong !!
            I think he was genuinely surprised I wasn’t up for helping him with the tricky,stressful transition.

            • Claire,

              I think that Cluster B disordered people will keep their former chump on their Rolodex, so to speak, because they consider spouses/partners to be their personal property which they feel entitled to reclaim at any time it appears advantageous to do so. Think of it as an eternal Plan B. That is why NC is key. Out of sight, out of mind.

              • Applause Survivor!

                “because they consider spouses/partners to be their personal property which they feel entitled to reclaim at any time”. This statement is very true but the cheaters passive way of communicating this is, “it is very important to me that we remain friends.”

              • Yes that is asswipe important to his image that we remain close friends. Fuck him. Assholes.

              • [Sorry, can’t help myself, in my original post: WHETHER, not weather. I was dictating.]

                Thanks, all, for the insight — post D-day five months ago, I’m in the midst of a cycle that has more than three channels, though I am sure one of the cycles is hoovering. Only it disgusts me. (Isn’t it supposed to be charming? Aren’t I supposed to feel satisfied by a morsel or a banquet? I don’t. I don’t care. I feel nauseated and ashamed and I’m sick of myself. Sick of the hours’ of tears of regret, sick of the absence of my fury, sick of the exhaustion, the fact that I have to coach myself through the most basic of duties. . .)

                SureChumpedALot, interesting insight about how some cheaters who think they own their victims communicate that beyond-entitled BS with “let’s remain friends.” Mine won’t say that. Thank heavens for small favors.

              • The “we can still be friends!” offer is just to keep their foot in our chumpy doors.

                Then the cheater can use years of intimate familiarity to beg for errand running and emotional support because “life is so complicated and you were ALWAYS THERE for me!” By sticking close by and monitoring the chump’s situation, the cheater expects to maintain the status quo for themself, while they dance on to their next conquest(s) and the chump picks up their dry cleaning, and can be reeled back in at any time. No is the correct response.

              • Yup Claire, my ex wife said it was vVERY important that she remains friends with me – then – she said “maybe we can get back together in 5 or 10 years?”

              • OMFG. She is an alien person. What could she possibly be thinking? What do you think she would say if her fuckbuddy dumped her and then followed up with this?

                It reminds me of a funny New Yorker cartoon that shows a businessman on the phone saying, “No, Thursday’s out. How ’bout never – is never good for you?”

              • Haha roaring thats good. Unfortunately when she made that remark “5-10 years” it gave me hope because it was just after dday and i was a dancing fool. It kept me under her hoofs for atleast 6 more months. Alien Bitch.

      • Deedee, I haven’t heard the right side of my Irish arse since Grandma went to Heaven to tell God how to it 20 years ago. Thanks for the laugh!

    • The last time that stbx tried to make his cheating “no big deal” and that “everyone does it” I asked him if he wanted our son to have the type of marriage we had-cheating, lying, porn, hookers, etc.????????

      He responded with crickets

  • Rhys tried to use statistics on me and it was infuriating. Go away, Rudy, no one wants to hear this bull.

  • Confession to a priest is worthless if it is not followed by repentance. Ole Rudy is in for a rude awakening come judgment day!

    • Exactly! You are NOT supposed to commit the same sin again & again! The Sacrament of Reconciliation does not give you a “free pass” to f**k around. Rudy is an example of a very delusional cheater who calls himself a Roman Catholic but it’s in name only because he doesn’t seem to have a heart or soul if he can justify that crap.

      • Confession can bring you out of mortal sin so that your soul wont go to hell if you drop but there are temporal effects of sin for which you either handle when you are here or are held accountable for in Purgatory. Im sure that nowdeadcatholic husband confessed but he didnt even try to make it right with me.

        I think God will hold men in leadership positions accountable for their bad examples.

          • +100. I’m not Catholic, but I hope God holds all men and women cheaters who don’t become unicorns, irrespective of position, accountable.

            Giuliani was a phenomenal prosecutor. Scary good on his feet with words and arguments. I am imagining him, trying to get into heaven … and HE is the target of cross-ex.

            Exhibit A: “Everyone cheats.” Exhibit B: Quick slideshow of his cheater history.” Exhibit C: Seventh Commandment.

            What I would pay to see the cross examiner conduct THAT one….

            • Raised Roman Catholic, altar boy, nuns and Jesuits for a lot of my education, the whole 9 yards:
              Do folks really believe that, if there is a God, he or she gives a rat’s ass?
              After all he or she seems to let kids suffer from cancer etc.. Tsunami’s kill innocents, and all types of stuff. why on Earth would he or she give a crap?
              I think it gives us some sense of justice and fairness to imagine these folks get theirs, but, most times, I do not believe it happens.
              Cheaters often thrive and prosper. Yeah , sure, they will burn in eternity and the God that judges them, the one that advocated slavery, annihilation of other tribes, killing folks for working on the Sabbath, and who asked a guy to make a human sacrifice of his kid etc. will punish them>
              Guiliani is an obvious slime, a slippery , weasel like a-hole, no doubt. But, a God giving a crap? That is a little much for me.

              • Hey Arnold, check out the video’s on YouTube called “The existence of God”, they’re good and explain lots and can answer some questions you asked here. ?

              • Arnold…I say so in a loving, non preachy & judgmental way.Yes, I think God is real and He cares. He held me up during my crisis/unicorn time/Hs death and I care for dying children for a living and He feels very close.

              • Thanks, CD NM. I love watching Hitchens and Harris on this issue.
                No way to prove or disprove the existence. But,if God exists,it seems he or she is not terribly beneficent.

    • Yes, this pissed me off too. I’m not Catholic, but I’m pretty sure just going to confession doesn’t get you off the hook.

  • Born and raised in NY, I had a front row seat for Rudy’s shenanigans. Donald had a few New York Post/ NY Daily News infidelity covers as well – especially when Ivana and Marla Maples ran into each other in the ski slopes when He took both the family AND the mistress skiing.
    It’s getting harder and harder to find people who don’t subscribe to this “everybody does it, so get over it” “I’m so evolved” mindset.

  • Well, I took the opportunity to bring the fabulous chump lady up yesterday while visiting my mom and my chump. Now, the waiting game. I hope he speaks up!

  • Of course I was told everybody cheats.
    I was even told that I cheated.
    What the actual fuck?
    Even if it crossed my mind I was more than a little busy parenting full time and working full time while Narkles the Clown traveled “for work.”
    Let’s say it all together now: Mind Fuck!

    • In the months leading up to DDay I got a torrent of abuse about my social activities and guilt trips about going out without her. How she stayed awake waiting for me, how I was this and that for going to drinks with colleagues.

      I now know that on one of the nights she went on and on about (because a female colleague was there), she was on a work trip with her fuckbuddy.

      And then after she (sort of…via trickle truth) confessed when she had no where left to go…. she told me at some point that “so many people do it”, which was her making the point she’s not a “monster”.

      Maybe not a monster, but enough of a controlling, abusive and lying shit that I kicked her arse to the curb….

      Now, if only I can work out how to get her to settle the divorce proceedings, I will be a very happy man !!

      • Despite being told early in the relationship how Cold Slab O’Meat’s mum had many work from home enterprises and a lively circle of female friends, that story changed mid flow. When I would be needed out for work dinners or asked on outings and trips by female friends, all of a sudden his mum and dad never left the house alone. At the end, he would be overjoyed to have alone time, because he could sneak over to seed the Sluterus while I took his daughter to family events and mommy-stepdaughter outings he was too occupied with his phone to do himself.

        And no. In 30 years of adult relationships I have never cheated. I have not even flirted back with a flirt. One man I dated lied about not being divorced yet, and I shut him down. It’s just not in my makeup to hurt other women and their children.

        Dr. Phil is a Bozo, but he said one thing valuable I will never forget, and it’s pretty relevant right now- “Cheaters think everyone cheats, and liars think everyone lies.”

    • False accusations of of the blue, whether of cheating or of accusing the person of cheating, always smell like gaslighting to me.

    • “It takes two to tango. Are you telling me that all that time you spent traveling for work nothing inappropriate ever happened?”

      Because he felt it was ok to cheat on me, in his head I must have cheated on him.The traveling I did for work was over 15 years ago before we even had kids. Is he projecting? And does that mean that he cheated on me while I was out of town for work? He apparrantly never had any lines in the morality sand he wouldn’t cross. That just makes me a complete fool for trusting him all those years and believing that he wouldn’t do something to truly hurt me or the kids.

    • I got those “you’re cheating on me” innuendos from time to time too. Those accusations seem to serve the multiple purposes of blame-shifting, self-justification, and misdirection all in one beautifully wrapped sociopathic package.

      • Yep – I heard about my fake affair for 16 years. He would throw that in my face every time we would fight. I can’t prove I DIDN’T have an affair – but it was useful for him when I found out about his fuck phone. Even better for asswipe to use that against me – when my son found his fuck phone and son called him out on it – he justified the phone by telling my son about my fictitious affair from 15 years prior. Yea – good job asshole – now my kids’ minds are tainted with them wondering “did mom really cheat on dad?” What a guy!

        • Yep, cheater ex took that one and ran with it to the extent that people I barely knew were openly snubbing me. I had no idea why. Eventually he worked the story into I was an actual hooker, and people actually believed him. Because I didn’t know he was poisoning the ground below me for quite a while before things blew up, it was impossible to refute his lies in many cases. Definitely caused me problems.

          • It ceases to amaze me how much alike Cheaters are with their careful planning and bad mouthing behind our backs to friends and family. To maintain their good guy or girl image and to make everyone sympathize with them and make chumps appear unstable, unreasonable, wretched beings.
            I noticed a sudden change in his sisters attitudes in their voice over the phone, people I had known from PTA and school functions who would normally come up to me in the grocery store to chat would look at me and look away. I remember thinking it was odd, but maybe they had things on their mind. My sons teachers weren’t as friends when I’d go to the school. I found out later that X had been telling everyone I was abusive to him and our son and an alcoholic, that X wasn’t sure how much longer he could put up with my irrational behavior. I had a small fender bender in the school parking lot one afternoon, X told everyone I had been drinking and that was why I had the accident. I was mortified, comments parents and teachers had made to me in passing now made sense. Suggestions on “meetings” uh, so you had an accident.., I’d say yes then tell the story of the accident, and one woman curtly replied, that’s not what I heard.., at the time, I thought what’s up with her.., once I found out I started sending out copies of the police report to my sons teachers and researching peoples addresses to mail more. I stopped myself, and thought, no, anyone who knows me knows better than to believe I’d drive drunk in the first place especially not in a public school parking lot. There were more sad sausage stories demonizing Brit Cheater have a secret handbook, how can they all be so much alike? I despise them all.

        • I also received the same projection from my ex-wife. I remember her showing me a pair of my blue boxers with a visible white stain on the front. It was CLEARLY a bleach stain because laundry was not her specialty.

          I remember immediately wanting to prove her wrong because I was really insulted. So I threw the solo blue boxers in the washer and once finished and still wet, I brought them upstairs and bleach stain was still there. No apology from her she was busy texting. This was right after DDay.

          If someone is a cheater, they think everyone cheats.
          If someone is a pathological liar, they think everyone lies.
          If someone projects, it’s usually to cover their own inadequacies.

      • I got the “I thought you didn’t care”!!
        Which was him projecting exactly how he felt. Douche bag!!!

  • Are we voting with our middle fingers or ring fingers?

    This is by far the worst cheater justification ever. Middle finger raised.

    This should be offensive to everyone.

  • Rudy is pathetic: Bug-eyed, sputtering, often confused, spittle flying. Plainly afflicted with the onset of an angry form of dementia. Also last week made racist comments at a “Leadership” conference for which the organizers had to apologize. A pattern has emerged. Inside a year the news of his illness will break and we will be asked to sympathize. I will take a pass.

    • I credit CL & CN with having no sympathy anymore for people who behave badly, and then pull the sadface or “I have a psychological problem” excuse. My bullshitometer is now a finely-tuned instrument.

    • That Rudy appears to have suffered significant mental deterioration is sad. That others have propped him up so he can (semi-consciously) spew hatred (and spittle) to further their political agenda is contemptible. But, yes, adults have to suffer the consequences of their actions. And Mr. Mayor’s actions are terrible, indeed.

      • He had his good points i suppose but i sincerely believe rudy is kissing donalds butt looking for a job as attorney general. Just my opinion. Politics aside. The man is a scum bucket cheater lying bastard and his god is not gonna save him since he did it several times. Again just my opinion.

  • I didn’t get the “everyone cheats” argument specifically, but my ex wife did feel that she was somehow edgy, sophisticated, and more complex than me while she was cheating (and probably felt the same way before she was cheating). In our briefs few months in marriage counseling, both her and her shitty therapist would tell me that I was being “too simplistic” in stating that my wife should not cheat, even if she’s attracted to other men. I said that if that’s what she wants, then she should get divorced.

    And then I was accused of bringing up divorce too quickly!

    Whoa whoa whoa, JC! Calm down! Why are you jumping so quickly to discussing divorce?!? Dealing with “marital problems” is a LOT more complicated than divorcing right away. Let’s focus on what is wrong with YOU, JC, that you’re so quick to bring up divorce!!!

    Even the therapist could blameahift and plant red herrings to distract from the real problem: that my cheating wife had poor character.

    • Oh course the MC didn’t want you bringing up the D word – that threatens the counseling gravy train. “Keep eating that shit sandwich and paying my fee, JC” that’s what you were hearing. Good for you to recognize it.

      I am lucky to have a really great therapist who, when my ex wanted to do marriage counseling with my therapist (not coincidentally Ex quit his own therapist when he wanted Ex to address the damage he had done to me and our kids), said no because she wanted to be my advocate and not an advocate for the marriage.

    • I got that STBX’s affairs were due to his uncontainable PASSION. And that someone like me couldn’t be expected to understand such a thing, nor the poetry in his soul. (Because fucking your mistress in the parking lot is really poetic.)

      • Oh, gee, now you triggered me (not really)!

        My cheater’s Ashley Madison byline was “in pursuit of passion and excitement.” Just can’t keep those passions from running rampant!

        • The Limited was looking for excitement and passion and admitted it was always about the thrill of the chase.

          The irony is that in the end he traded so far down I decided to let the fucker have it. As far as I can see it was like scraping road kill off the pavement.

        • I got “I have so much Love to give”!!
          I thought well your sure giving it all to yourself!!! Narc BS.

        • That would have made him seem sooooo unique on a cheater site, Tempest. Such passion! Such originality! Such sparkle! So special! Yeah, right. Shit magnet.

      • Passion for cheaters is fear of being vulnerable and authentic with their spouse. Far easier to escape their poor character and toxic personality by being Passionate with a stranger or like-minded narcissist.

        Passion for cheaters says they are entitled to some strange because they just are; because they are better than others.

        Passion for cheaters says “I’m better than you, my spouse who cooks for me, provides for me, listens to me, cares for my well-being.”

    • JC, kudos to you for keeping your head in an untenable situation (massively non-theeapeutic). Kipling came to mind:

      “If you can keep your head when all about you
      Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
      If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
      But make allowance for their doubting too” . . .

      A pretty big “If”, but you managed. Congrats for being stellar!

    • Yep. Marriage counselor said we were not allowed to discuss anything from the past ( well, she was still cheating while we went, so, had I known, I might have been able to raise that). Guy was worthless and I stopped after 2 times.
      As far the cheater feeling he or she was more “edgy” , more evolved, more sophisticated etc., I think that happens a lot.
      Cheaters are NPD, for the most part. Even outside of cheating, they feel themselves superior, more evolved, more spiritual etc.
      Look at folks like Esther Perel, one of their guru’s or that Eat. Pray , Love author. These folks are, virtually, incoherent with their new age speak bullshit.
      Look at Guiliani, if it were not for the hypergamic draw of power and status, think that guy would have an easy time getting laid? Think the guy is very bright? he is a fucking idiot, and ass kisser etc.

    • It is so crazy – my husband has been telling me and everyone else what a new amazing person he is but admits to building a secret life with a married colleague. He has been lying and cheating for years but I just found out. He truly believes that he has self reflected and is amazing. Told my two teenagers that he hasn’t wanted our cookie cutter marriage for 12 years (what a life thief). Too bad I can’t tell him that my kids found his secret stash of viagra, flavored lube, condoms, and pot. What a role model. He won’t even leave the house so I am having to wait for the separation agreement and our house to sell. He is truly fucking delusional. The sad part is while everyone tells me how horrible he has been, no one speaks up. To his face people are polite – we live in a fucked up world people.

  • I heard a variation of everybody cheats, it went like this, “If a couple isn’t getting along then there’s nothing wrong with cheating,” if you’re having a rough patch in your marriage, a disagreement on how to load the dishwasher, where to eat for dinner.., you earned yourself a cheating pass.
    Everybody’s doing it, and this is why, every couple occasionally argues, disagrees.., so what do you do? Cheat of course.
    Cheating is known for strengthening a relationships, just ask one.

  • Is this the equivalent to everyone drives a bit faster than the speed limit on the highway? I was just driving the speed of traffic so I wouldn’t get run into from behind? Oh wait … my STBX actually likes getting “run into from behind” so I must have the analogy (ANALogy) all wrong. Need more coffee to understand all this sophistication.

  • I was dating/married to my ex for over 25 years and I didn’t cheat once. And I was in an emotionally destructive relationship (withholding of affection/attention/love/time) most of those years, but I was faithful to him. I can only imagine how many times he was unfaithful to me with emotional and physical affairs. He lead a double life all the years we were together. And I too got the I was “judging him.” Well, wait until the final Judge takes a look at his life choices and his lack of repentance for all he’s done to me and his children. I’m counting on God to have the final say in this matter.

  • “Everybody does it.”

    What a classic cop-out. It’s just a line to hide from responsibility when there isn’t any excuse. My kids try to go to this line when all else fails. But they’re in elementary school. Rudy and our spouses – not so much.

  • In addition to “everyone cheats,” The Donald has said that if Hillary didn’t know Bill was cheating, she’s too stupid to be president.

    And that makes all of us here to stupid to…what?

    • too stupid to use the toaster, apparently. (24 years with a serial cheater and I didn’t know. Note to self: take toaster to Goodwill this week)

    • Here’s a news flash for cheaters who think chumps are stupid. Using a person’s love against them to exploit and rob them of the years of their lives, their money, emotional investment in you, past and future, and mental health, does not make your victim stupid. It makes you a double-revolving asshole. (Disclaimer: The foregoing is not intended as commentary on any political candidate. I’m JK and I support this message).

      • You said it, JK!

        And yes, mine was not intended as political commentary either. I would have been equally pissed off no matter who made the comment!

    • Agreed LAJ! One word says it all.

      Cheaters willfully embrace mainstream societies (sophisticated and edgy) approach along with Hollywood and the media’s depiction of “everyone cheats” as justification for their own entitlement. Once they justify, then they project.

      This thought process enrolls bad character losers faster than the STD’s that they pass around.

      I didn’t cheat and I can name hundreds of others that don’t either. So put the fuck-buddy radar back in your pants Mr. and Mrs. Cheater-pants and try to live a noble life by being grateful for all you have…. your spouse, your children and the life that you all built.

  • And then there’s the idea, expressed by a Trump supporter who apparently has signed on with the marriage police, that if Hillary can’t “control” Bill, she can’t “control” the country. As if controlling another person was possible or desirable.

    • So Hillary is “stupid” for not knowing Bill was cheating, and she should have “controlled” him.

      Am I abnormal, or does anyone else have the urge to beat The Donald with a large spiked tree branch?

      • It’s seemingly a common idea in some circles. If a man cheats, it’s the woman’s fault. And then you better not slut-shame the OW or you are “abusing” her.

      • It made me physically sick when people were making fun of her health problems. Setting all the politicking aside, she is a human being.
        So, she had a cough, the flu, pneumonia…and? Her schedule is grueling and she uses her voice all day long.
        When she fell, and people were mocking it, I only felt sympathy for her and revulsion for the people who were so horrific. When George Bush the First vomited at a big state dinner or some soiree, no one doubted his MIND or mental state. They just said he had food poisoning. Some minor jokes were made and people moved on.

        • Have at it! (I heard a montage this morning of all the things Trump has said about women. And (surprise) very little of it respectful. On the lookout for the thorniest tree branch I can find….)

          • It amazes me when I hear people defend’s verbal abuse of women by saying, “he talks the same way to men,” as if that makes it okay. Has anyone heard him say something SEXUALLY degrading about a man’s body? (Has he ever looked in the mirror?)

            He is a master at verbal abuse and blame shifting. Kind of fascinating to watch if you’re not in the crosshairs.

            • Lyn – Someone who is trying to be the leader of this country shouldn’t talk to either sex that way, right? It amazes me that anyone would want him representing them to the rest of the world.

      • Speaking of book? Did I mention I’m loving it? Maybe twice before but wanted to say it again. I leave it visible… to plant seeds of rebellion. Hehehe

  • Ugh! Who is even banging these jerk holes?! Rudy, Trump, Gingrich, they are all the most unattractive piles of doughy grossness on Earth!! Each one of them makes me throw up in my mouth a little. But they all seem to find women willing to have multiple affairs.

    And it’s not like they have any personality to redeem their lack of looks. They’re balls of pure narcissism.

    EWWWW.

    • They all have money, fame and power. Those are attractive qualities to some people.
      It has taken me a long time to figure out the weird role physical attractiveness plays in cheating. My average looking STBX cheated with some attractive women, though most were more than a little trashy. And look at all the beautiful people who get cheated on – Jennifer Anniston, Eva Longoria, Gwen Stephani.

    • Lol, Kara, “piles of doughy grossness'” that is so true! I don’t get it either, I can’t imagine having sex with any of them.

      • You’re right Louisvilleflower (Kentucky? X is UPS pilot) money, prestige, power and fame are what many women are attracted to and nothing like winning, beating out the competition (wife),
        Put them and their cheap perfume in the same room with a selfish, pompous, sexist, smug, pile of doughy grossness, creates a room full of instant attraction or is that love at first sight or is it a room full of shit?
        I agree with you Kara, I couldn’t imagine having one of them with their Tella Tubby bellies rubbing up against me, sweating groping me and feeling their hot breath on my neck.

        The thought is making me nauseous. (I fell asleep typing)

    • It’s the power of hypergamy. The male equivalent is the attraction to stupid, but physically attractive women.
      One gender prefers power and status ( although physical attractiveness may also be a draw), while the other goes for looks and youth.
      Neither has a monopoly on being attracted for less superficial reasons.

  • I felt even more like a goofy purple unicorn when I found out that a couple of people I know all cheated. I was “Really, I just didnt get the EVERYBODY CHEATS memo. I was faced with temptation a few times and I thought to myself ‘THAT would be a BAD idea’ ” I told Col Greatguy that I felt like a dinosaur. He never cheated either. His wife dated once they had sep but he didnt think it was right.

    Looking back on what I now know of deadhusbands shenanigans, I think there is a deep and active subculture of “work cheaters” who all fuck each other on business trips and then go home to their chumps for cake….like in the movie “Up in the Air”. I think this was the rubric of much of H1’s cheating. The idea that “everyone” did it surely was part of his rationalization.

    • I think work cheating is the most popular, just for the simple fact that it is so easy. And cheaters are all about the easy. Ex told me so himself.

      I know most jobs are a”closed environment ” where cheaters can interact without fear of discovery. For example, my building has multiple security checkpoints, badge access, etc. so whatever is going on in there is a secret unless someone tells you. And work email and phone records are locked up tight as well. So, many workplaces are an 8/10/12 hour a day cheaters’ paradise.

        • For a while, the Marine Corps flew him to Boston every monday and put him in a nice Hotel so that he could collaborate with the Army. I has home with 3 kids alone all week and when he got home for a weekend off, I worked 12 hr night shifts in an ICU. My weeks were filled with parenting alone…he had a fuckfest.

          This went on for a year or so…I was curious why he seemed so contented. At the end of this situation, he was assigned to go to graduate school and he suggested that me and the kids NOT move with him (it was 2 1/4 yrs!!) he wanted us to stay where we were and he had his next fuckfest all planned out. I said the idea of living apart was absurd. I look backa nd realize he never did want us there.

          So at the time I only assumed the very best of him, I never for a minute thought he would do such a thing and now I think that his business trips were a giant fuckapalloza.

        • That’s great. Virago!

          If single people knew they only had to show up for work to get fucked/ find their soulmates I guess all the dating sites would have to shut down. Dating is just so easy!!!

          Funny, you don’t see that many legitimate couples who meet at work, just cheaters. Very telling.

    • I would be interested to see if there is actual research on the most popular types of APs – like a percentage breakdown on the most popular types. I would imagine COWs would be up there. Here are the types that I can think of (I’m sure I’m missing some):

      1) COWs

      2) Workout/gym buddies

      3) Ashey Madison/Craig’s List

      4) Mutual friend

      5) Family member

      6) Prostitute

      7) Parent of one of your kid’s friends

      8) Random hookup

      • Blindside, are COW co workers?

        I think you need to add ex girlfriend/boyfriend and ex wife/husband. I think I heard exes are right up there with co workers for cheating. Plus, I think exes are less effort as well. Just locate them on the internet, scout out their willingness to cheat, and not tell the spouse.

        • Anita, yes COWs are co-workers and good catch on the ex’s. Can’t believe I missed that one. Just find them on Facebook, send them a message, and off you go.

          • Yep. Xw left me for her old high school boyfriends from 35 years prior. She went trolling for old boyfriends and found one exactly like you describe. X’s are definitely one of the categories.

          • Thank you, Blindside . Yes, ex went after someone he dated a bit decades ago. Said she was a Path of Least Resistance. Lol. I think they can superimpose what they saw decades ago on what’s actually there now. Ergo, they are Teenagers. Delusional.

      • And dont forget multiple sites for hooking up for unsafe sex with bondage sex slaves multiples and as many as possible.

      • And don’t forget- 10) Neighbors!
        Think : Lazy. Cheaters are lazy, the easier the better for them. Kind of the opposite of Effort Is Sexy. If you can get to your AP in 2 minutes, while your spouse is working (to support your lazy ass), it’s pure bliss for the cheater. Also with the added fun of seeing them out your windows and your Chump is being fooled.

    • I was on a business trip for an out-of-state rental I owned, and one evening as I was eating dinner in the hotel coffee shop (with a book, alone) I began hearing an old guy sitting two tables away making nasty comments about “women on road trips” and “screwing around”, etc. He was sitting with an adult son, and probably daughter-in-law, and making these comments and when I didn’t react, kept speaking louder and making nastier comments. His family were trying to hush him, but he just kept on talking about it. I finished my dinner and walked out, thinking that his nasty comments were probably about his own business life.

      So, yeah, his reality wasn’t mine, nor did I cheat on any of my business trips.

      These guys are really pathetic.

  • OK, let’s play Devil’s Advocate. We know not everyone cheats, just because that’s the truth. I don’t cheat, CN doesn’t cheat, and millions of others do not cheat.

    But let’s say that everyone does cheat. Guess what, whether everyone does it or no one does it, that does not alter the wrongness of an action. At all. The Bible says that the road to hell is broad, and easy, and well traveled (or something similar) while the road to heaven is narrow and not well traveled. It’s like your mom saying “If Johnny jumps off a cliff , would you jump off a cliff?”. Only if you are stupid and want to die too.

    • Anita,
      I think one thing that is gutting is that I truly do not cheat..even mentally. I was told by several mental health people, rabbis, randoms, men and women friends …that this is an aberration and I need to “accept” that men will also have harmless fantasies in their mind. That the fantasies are okay, and as long as they don’t act on them, it is not cheating. This is BEFORE I was chumped. (So you can imagine how being cheated on affected me…catastrophically).

      I still think that is cheating, thinking about sex with others. Perhaps I will end up alone, because my bar is too high. But….I do not WANT to be with a man who is fantasizing about our waitress naked. I consider it cheating. Maybe I am too old fashioned?

      Perhaps I am doomed.

      • I don’t think you’re doomed, Sylvia. I’m not into fantasizing about strange myself either. I have done it in the past I guess at some point.

        Cheaters just really seem to have some sort of excessively high interest in sex. I like it but just haven’t ever had a compulsive interest to think about screwing all the time. There are so many other things to do. Why just do one thing. Maybe it really is a mental disorder/addiction. But whatever it is, no need for us to put up with these losers.

      • I agree with you totally Sylvia. If you’re old fashioned so am I. It’s disrespectful and shows where their heart lies. When I’m in love I don’t have radar for anyone else and would feel disloyal if I looked at another man sexually. Flirting and porn is cheating ! I actually had ex BF tell me that he wondered if our waitress looked better without her clothes on. How is that acting loving to me ? Totally disrespectful. And how can a woman feel loved when her man chooses to have sex by himself while watching porn instead of with a woman who loves him ?

        Having said that though, I know men who would never cheat. Who no longer go to a certain coffee shop without their wife because the waitress there Always comes on to him. There are real and good men out there who consider themselves blessed to have their wife and not only would never cheat but would never do anything that would make their wife feel ” less than ” or give the appearance that they might cheat.

        I no longer feel the need to socialize with people who don’t have the same values. I’m thinking that if all I see are cheating men then I need to start associating with different people. So my circle has become much smaller but so much more comfortable.

  • Just when I thought this presidential race couldn’t get any more ridiculous, these stuffed shirt morons start blasting Bill Clinton for his infidelities! What in the HELL has that got to do with Hillary Clinton’s politics???? And the accusations are coming from some of the most public cheaters in our country!

    It is a testament to the lack of insight these narcissists have about themselves. Did they think they would get away with pointing the finger at someone else and not having it boomarang right back at them? Yes! Because that was in the past! I’m not cheating at the moment! (Not that anyone is aware of.). What is playing out on the stage of American politics is the same thing that we chumps had to deal with in our homes with our cheaters. It is mass blaming-shifting, gaslighting and passive-aggression.

    Rudy confesses that to a priest? He must have one on speed-dial. He also needs to check his bible again because divorce is not allowed by the Catholic Church, simply because you wanted some strange. I used to be Catholic and confession isn’t like a drive-thru car wash. Confession is for when you see the error of your ways, you beg god’s forgivness and you know better now and will not commit the same sin. People who use religion as a get-out-of-jail-free card are truly disgusting.

    You know republicans must be desperate to have this become a part of the presidential race. It’s just a smoke screen for why Trump refuses to release his income tax information. Men who can’t keep their dick’s in their pants have nothing to do with this presidential race and have everything to do with hipocracy.

  • As a parting shot on the way out the door, the ex wanted to strike the fear of God in me when he asked: “How do you know someone else won’t cheat on you? Everyone cheats!”

    The RIC is pretty flush with those folks who use this insane “It’s better to dance with the devil you know” routine.

    I love CLs response: that I could swing a cat around in a room and hit a better mate (and one that doesn’t cheat). Better to start with a clean slate. When you learn how to interview people you one of the first things they teach you is to ask open ended questions about past situations. Why? Because the absolute best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Works for cheaters too.

    Don’t fall for that line whether it’s a from a former Mayor of New York or anyone else who cheats!

    • Exactly, and it shouldn’t be a fishing expedition to wriggle out the answers. Honest people show honest behavior without cajoling.

      • I meant that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior as the part that applies to cheaters. Not necessarily the interviewing part. Although I’m sure I’ve interviewed some cheaters in my day, LOL.

  • I don’t really care what “everybody” does because I’m not 15 and I’m not motivated by peer pressure to do dysfunctional things to be popular.

    I do, however, care whether my partner keeps the agreements he makes within our relationship.

    A person who wants multiple partners, sexual or otherwise, has the option say so and be open an honest about it. That has many names, such as polyamory, and I have nothing against it. It isn’t what I want, so I don’t do it, and that is fine by the people who do want it, because they don’t want me to participate via coercion. That would be antithetical to the principle of “agreement”, which is what makes it workable for everyone.

    A person who wants multiple partners sexual or otherwise, in SECRET, and/or while receiving monogamous loyalty from me while our conversations have always specified a mutual choice for monogamy? That person is unfaithful, a.k.a. a “cheater”.

    The argument against cheating has nothing to do with how sophisticated it is, or isn’t, to choose monogamy. In fact, a sexually sophisticated person would actually support either choice and any choice that was on the table among consenting adults.

    The argument against cheating has everything to do with the fact that sneaking around keeping secrets is immature, self-serving, harmful, high-risk, and power mongering. For these reasons, it is equivalent, psychologically and socially, to thievery, assault/abuse, harassment, perjury, and other crimes.

    Saying cheating is reasonable because lots of people do it is like saying rape and robbery make sense because, hey, it happens, so people should just expect it and accept it.

    So, I suppose that, since mugging is common in big cities, Mr. Giuliani would be AOK with getting mugged, even if he were permanently injured, as long as the mugger went to confession. After all, lots of people are involved in street crime and assault, and he wasn’t killed or anything, and he doesn’t need that wallet to survive or anything, so, hey, no harm, no foul.

  • I remember being not long married, when out of the blue, my ex said: “There are two types of men. Those who love their wives and have sex with other women, just for the sex, but always go home to their wives and family, and those who have an affair with the same woman, fall in love, and leave their wives for that woman.”

    I responded immediately by saying: “And then there is the third type: good men.” I noticed him staring at the floor when I said that. I continued by blabbing on about statistically speaking, more women had affairs blah blah blah.

    The thing is, he said this at an early stage of our marriage (i.e. a couple of months), when I was all loved up, and completely unsuspecting. Such was my trust, that I didn’t even think for one second that he was talking about himself (he turned out to be the first type).
    So, as he was not saying this to mindfuck me AFTER I’d begun to find the truth, why the hell was he saying it at all? Was he testing my trust? Did he want to get caught? Could it be he was feeling guilty after yet another fling with a prostitute? Was he gauging my reaction to the notion of a cheating spouse? I think that statement he made is probably the only thing that still troubles my mind when I think of it, and how I didn’t see the giant red flag he was slapping me across the face with. So weird. What a chump I was!

    Maybe he was putting in the foundations for if I ever did find out. Sort of like… I’d think, well, he said all men do it, so I may as well just stick with him, as clearly, I’ll never find a man who isn’t a cheater anyway, because they don’t exist. I suppose it’s still a mindfuck, whether it’s used pre or post D-Day. Bleurgh.

    • Mine also gave me clues that I ignored because I was SO trusting of him it never occurred to me that he was speaking of himself. He said that more women hit on him when he wore a wedding ring. So he didnt wear one. ::::facepalm::::

      • Mine did also. But I thought back then that people make mistakes and they change for the better. I was wrong. Actions tell you who they are and people rarely change behavior. It’s a lot of hard work! Now, I’m just passing my wisdom on to my daughters hoping they can avoid the painful lessons i’ve learned.

        • Yeah, I’ve had a few conversations with my kids, but mostly my daughter. The Angelina and Brad break-up (my daughter loves Jennifer Aniston) was the perfect time to bring up that a person should never date someone who is dating or married to someone else. I told her that if he cheats on someone with you, he will eventually cheat on you. I hope my kids don’t make the same mistakes I made or their father (well, according to him he hasn’t done anything wrong.)

        • I think, specifically, the most important thing I don’t want my daughters to confuse when they grow up, is behaving with kindness/compassion and being walked all over.

          • That would be my #1 concern too. My youngest child is a really good person and is kind with lots of compassion. I’m really working on her because she is a perfect target. Just last night she spent the night with mom because mom was asking about why she hadn’t lately. Well dumbass, because you now live with a creep the cops had to kick out last time you split. Told my baby that she can set limits at her age. Now I just have to teach her how to do it.

      • The Fucktard thought his wedding ring was “uncomfortable.” Maybe the only time he ever told the truth, but he probably didn’t mean what I assumed he did.

        • Survivor. The wedding band was probably burning his finger like Holy Water burns demons and sunlight burns Dracula.

          • I can only hope that was true. I do know that he died a slow and miserable and humiliating death at far too young an age. Feeling uncharitable, I expected he’d reaped what he’d sown.

            I took that ring with me when I cleared out, and eventually sold it and mine for cash to help fund my wedding some years later to a lovely chump gentleman. He did the same. It wasn’t a lot of money, and it wasn’t an expensive wedding either. But we loved that both crapweasel ex’s paid for live steel pan music on the beach and a couple of other extras that made our day more special. You can’t make them care, but you can make them gone.

          • He rarely wore it in life but he was buried with one on.

            Col Greatguy wears his all the time. Great partners are rare but they are out there

              • Worse the last AP (I didn’t know about any of them) chucked a huge hissy fit as he wouldn’t take it off. They were at a flash sea side hotel and she got called Mrs Innis. At breakfast she broke down and cried her poor Widdle heart out. Then got angry and stormed out, packed her bag and went to the airport via taxi. Of course STBX ran after her and conjoled her and used pretty words to get her to wait till their evening flight home. The next day she wrote an essay on how she would accept whatever dredges he was willing to give her. So so fucked up all of them!!!

    • Yes, it sounds like he was telling you a philosophy he learned from childhood. That kind of thinking doesn’t come out of the blue. Too bad he didn’t tell you BEFORE you got married. Obviously these people know this kind of behavior is wrong, so they hide it. Then, once you find out, they say it was your fault for not knowing. Sheesh!

      I remember my husband crying out in an anguished voice, “Okay, I’m a bad person!” The way he said it just ripped my heart out, I felt so sorry for the way he was sobbing and tried to convince him he wasn’t. At the time I didn’t realize it was all an act designed to manipulate my compassion. Knowing everything I know now, I wish I’d have answered, “Yes, you are.”

      • I think you’re right, Lyn. Mine also tried to make me think the behaviour wasn’t THAT bad. Because, you know, nobody’s perfect, right? We all have our vices, no? Because a large chocolate bar after dinner is just the same as a hook up!
        Yeah, they know their behaviour is wrong. Fantastic how your ex then tried to use his realisation of being a bad person, to manipulate you! They really are something else.

      • And we all need to follow Maya Angelou’s wise advice (and I’m paraphrasing): When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time.

    • LucyInTheSky78,

      I responded immediately by saying: “And then there is the third type: good men.”

      Lucy, genius response!

    • It’s not gaslighting and it’s not projection either, but I agree, Lucy, that it is haunting and evil and hard to get over. For a time I called it blowing smoke out the ass. I recently came up with a less vulgar and more succinct term for it: PREEMPTIVE MISDIRECTION.

      Cheaterdilly was/is a master. And even though the conversations took place years (even a decade) previously, I can remember them almost verbatim. He would, voluntarily and apropos of nothing, bring up someone else’s cheating behavior/scenario with a tone of incredulity: “Ms. Barrista told me she has at least half a dozen married customers, including Mr. X, that shamelessly flirt with and proposition her both in person and by text. Can you believe that?” (this is by far the tamest and easiest to explain example out of about 6 I can remember)

      And I’d say, “No, that’s awful. Mr. X is a real asshole” and move right on, never even remotely sensing the red flag waving inches in front of my eyes. After DDay and when Cheaterdilly confessed more of his many affairs, I found out he was doing that EXACT cheating, too. The hypocrisy and deviance is breathtaking and one of my biggest hangups in this whole awful mess that is my wrecked marriage.

      I’m sure Cheaterdilly — and many other cheaters — do it in large part to throw the chump off the scent. If he brings up that behavior himself, he certainly CAN’T be doing it. Bringing it up is counter-intuitive to perpetuating a lie. Yes. Yes, it is. But fuck, it worked. It worked like a charm.

      I think the preemptive misdirection may also be a twisted form of gaining completely imaginary implicit permission. (Yes, I’ll admit that I’m still trying to untangle this particular skein of fuckedup)

      Of course, he doesn’t remember most of these conversations taking place, but there are a couple of the stories (all true and all equally applicable to his behavior with one of the APs) he shared with the general public (he tends to gossip) and can’t deny. It’s sickening. Just like Rudy’s statement. Sickening and so, so hard to accept and let go.

      • “I’m sure Cheaterdilly — and many other cheaters — do it in large part to throw the chump off the scent. If he brings up that behavior himself, he certainly CAN’T be doing it. Bringing it up is counter-intuitive to perpetuating a lie. Yes. Yes, it is. But fuck, it worked. It worked like a charm.”

        this times a fucking hundred

        I swallowed his bullshit hook, line and sinker

        • I can hear her voice to this day saying, “Cheating is the ultimate betrayal.” So many of the times when something seemed suspicious, and I was trying to reason things out, I let those words resolve things in her favor. Who would say such a thing if they were a cheater, right? Serial, long-term cheater during 20 year marriage.

          • I also got the gossip about other people’s affairs on a regular basis. I used to shut it down because I don’t like gossip and I don’t enjoy talking about people I don’t like, and usually I didn’t like the alleged cheaters.. So I never even checked if the gossip was actually going around our small town or if he had made it all up. I got his juicy stories every time he went into the village, complete with feigned outrage or schadenfreude. I used to think he was so much like a teenage girl about this and wonder how someone so educated could be so petty and focused on such boring tawdry stories . Now I know.

    • Lucyinthesky – What your husband told you at the time was a truth leak. He couldn’t help himself and blurted it out, because that’s what he was thinking and he classified himself in one of those categories. It’s like a gay man who references being gay or makes gay jokes. That’s who he is. Your husband was doing the same thing, telling you exactly the thoughts in his mind, because he would one day be capable of doing those things. It wouldn’t even cross my mind to think those things, let alone say them.

  • Yep i got every normal american male cheats, its what we do, part of life, perfectly normal, nothing lasts forever, get over yourself, stop being a victim, i didnt murder anyone for fucks sake, whats the big fucking deal and stop fucking crying would you! Yep all in the same sentence. No empathy, no remorse, no shame. I said ok but what about females cheating, if they are cheating with a married guy but not married themselves ok but if they are married they are sluts. Wow, brillant deduction there smedly. All decorum and decentcy seems to be flowing down the sewer daily. Our current presidential election is sickening with this shit. Quite an example being set there. Disgusting. There are so many good people in the world who being drowned out and over shadowed by liars, cheaters and assholes. Theres no need for puritans but come on, this is really getting out of hand. Ok to cheat on your spouse, hurts noone right? Sheesh! College student gets six months for a brutal rape of a female hes out in three. Rich male teenager wants to get off charges cause hes rich. Makes me ill. Should be fault divorce. Whats next, sorry your honor i killed that guy cause he teased me and made me sad. Absolutely disgusting. Rudy is an asshole following his screaming rotting old dick hes no example to anyone. Just another fucked up cheater dishonest asshole and the new wife who cheated with him shes just as bad.

    • Normal men do not cheat. People that lack character and morals cheat! It’s so amazing how they justify their actions. I totally believe the no fault divorce is just a shame. They broke a promise and contract they had with you. In business circumstances, you can sue for that. Why not with marriage vows being broken?

      • Amen. I don’t get the no-fault divorce crap either. My STBX’s behavior was and continues to be abuse: emotionally, psychologically, and financially. I would more luck suing someone for emotional damages if I requested a service or applied for a job and cried discrimination. And neither of those involves a contract (like marriage) does.

      • I truly believe that no-fault divorce laws were drafted and shepherded through state legislatures by philandering old, white, men who wanted minimal consequences if/when caught at adultery.

  • These type of people just lack VALUES!!! So, is ever other crime ok since other people do it? And the priest/God forgave them so should you. Now drop it. We’re Jesus cheaters! But as pointed out they lack true repentance. I made it 28 years and not once did I cheat. Just like you guys know there were opportunities. I had 2 out right tell me what they wanted. Oddly, both were also married. X cheated 3 times before marriage and 4 known while married. Don’t believe the crap society says. Actions tell you exactly who a person is and you don’t have to forgive anyone. Now, i’m going to go work on my chumpness and see if I can get a backbone.

  • I didn’t get the “everybody does it” from my cheater (because he didn’t admit to cheating, I had to find out later) but I did get when he told me he’s leaving me and I had the nerve to be shocked and hurt, “You’re too loyal.” I guess that may count as a variation. Everybody leaves their spouse for no reason, to be free! Uh huh.

  • The interesting thing is this: “everybody cheats”, but you’d better not even think about doing it to them.

  • Thanks for that depressing bit of “wisdom” Rudy. I’m sure in your world, cheaters are a dime a dozen. I’m familiar with your world. My own cheater sucked me into it and in the process wiped away what used to be my limitless faith and trust in myself and in others.

    If what you say was really true, I would avoid every single human being on the planet. While I can’t speak for the 7 billion people in the world I can tell you about one member of the human race who hasn’t evolved to your level of disturbing selfishness. They say you can never really know a person but I know who I am and there is no part of me that would ever have the ability to betray someone else’s trust and mistreat them so badly that they might spend the rest of their life with a darkness on their soul that can fade but never leaves completely. That’s something I’m sure you would never understand, as my own cheater looks at me as if I’m some sort of alien life form, born with strange foreign personality traits like trust, commitment and loyalty.

    If I spend the rest of my life alone it will admittedly be lonely, but it will be okay because I’m learning to love myself again. I realized that I don’t need someone else to make me feel whole and how can I expect to be the loving and supporting other half of what it takes to be in a real, devoted relationship if I don’t enter into the relationship whole myself? Ask a cheater that question and they will never be able to give you a satisfying answer.

    I’m pretty sure there’s a handful (or more) of others out there like me and it’s possible that someday I might accidentally bump into one if fate, kismet, the Gods or whatever sees fit to make that happen. Until that day, I’ll take your statement as an understanding that miserable people make generalizations. And misery loves company.

    • Done4Good, I’m with you on that. I’m trying to learn to be loving and supportive other half of myself too. Even though I’m dating someone and enjoy his company, I’m not keen on getting married again. I’m enjoying my freedom and ability to make my own decisions too much.

      • “They say you can never really know a person but I know who I am and there is no part of me that would ever have the ability to betray someone else’s trust and mistreat them so badly that they might spend the rest of their life with a darkness on their soul that can fade but never leaves completely.” Love you for this Done4Good. Powerful Post.

    • I’m with you too Done4 and Lyn! I’m willing to wait forever if that’s how long it takes to find a partner who is really a partner and not a facade.

  • Typical cheater logic.

    Someone else is doing something? That’s WRONG and UNFORGIVEABLE.

    You discovered I’m doing the same thing? Hey, it’s no biggie. Everyone does it.

  • Hey, just color me a rube without an ounce of sophistication anywhere. Seems to me that marriage is a promise as in ……forsaking all others. In my narrow unsophisticated world, if I make a promise, I’m supposed to keep it. I’m enough of a idealist to believe that if other people want to keep a good relationship in their life it would probably be a good idea to keep those promises too.

    Stands to reason that if there is someone in my life who thinks it is perfectly acceptable to make me a promise and lie about keeping it, they shouldn’t be surprised that my parting gift will be a screen door hitting them in the ass while I assist them in making an exit.

    While it is impossible to protect myself from being lied to, that doesn’t mean I have to keep that person around.

    Bye bye, cheater.

    • He used to me “You are looking for a guarantee and life doesn’t give you guarantees”

      I have a guarantee on my tires…I thought I made a COVENANT, a SACRAMENT with my husband…in a church, with our family and friends in attendance, we swore before God to live faithfully with (and honor) one another. I meant it, he seems to have thought it a ruse.

      one should take my experience seriously…he shit all over me and our marriage and I went to DAILY MASS and prayed for him every day. I finally released him in my mind and heart and told God “If there is a place he would be happy, he needs to go there.” I meant California…he dropped dead a few weeks later.

  • Look at everyone else and not SELF is what Rudy is doing here, what drives this? EGO – Ease God Out.
    All Narcissists have a Big Egos, they are Self-centred and SELFish, they’re all about SELF. They are also miserable inside and have low SELFesteem, that’s why it all about ME, ME, ME with them. They can’t LOVE anyone because they loathe ThemSELVES at their core. They are separated from God and they’re fellow man. What a lonely way to Live!

    Also heard recently that IF any person feels the need to Explain, defend and justify anything, they know it’s wrong. I Loved that saying to live by, I took note for my own Life.

  • It’s funny. I spent most of my life worried that the man I was dating or married to would cheat. Now I don’t worry at all because if your picker is well tuned, you can avoid the cheaters. And if by chance you make a mistake, you are strong enough to get out immediately and resilient enough to know that you’ll be fine.

    • My picker is fixed too LdJ, I fixed it by turning it over to God instead of me, then I prayed for a God loving, fearing man to come into my life, my prayers were answered, I met him not looking at an AA roundup in Minnesota. I’m so happy Today! <3 And got my start out of Hell here at CN, I will be grateful for the rest of my Life for that, I'm going to Finish well.

      • Congratulations, Kate50. You can’t read enough posts like this. I’m going to put the words “finish well” on my refrigerator in the morning.

  • Rudy, Newt, Trump, Limbaugh, All have made me sick and nauseous over their toxic masculinity. And yes, this is a perfect example of toxic masculinity. “Everyone does it” — everyone in THEIR circle. It’s a clusterfuck and it’s how they justify themselves. Then these guys talk about the “sanctity of marriage.” OMG. It’s just over.the.top.

    This is at least one excuse I did not hear out of Bill Clinton. And yes, his behavior made me sick as well.

    I just shake my head at the stupidity of it all. My ex didn’t use the words “everyone does it” but he asked me “did not NOT expect this, it’s happening all around you.” Well no, I did not expect it. I took the vows seriously and thought your word was good. These guys are from another planet.

  • When I expressed my anger at his cheating mine said, “Everybody cheats”, and started to laugh.

    Funny thing is, if all the cool kids are doing it why not shout it from the rooftops and introduce your lovely AP to the kids, neighbours, work colleagues and your spouse? Oh right, because AP are tools and you are a loser – got it.

    F*ck you cheaters. Losers cheat, period.

  • I only write this because I have a bizarre problem with always being honest. (Truly, it is a curse). And I know that the the take down will be swift. But, I must do it.

    But here is goes:

    I believe 98% of all men cheat.

    Not 100%. But almost all of them do. This is based on my life experience, listening to hundreds (thousands?) of other people, reading all sorts of things, living in different cultures, speaking more than one language helps (Wide cross section and people do not realize I can understand what they are saying)

    And of course, I have not met every man in the world. And I am not saying all men. But I believe most of them do.

    The men on here seem to be acutely aware of the pain it inflicts. But I believe there are two factors involved in most men cheating:

    1) the availability, the opportunity to do so
    2) the likelihood they will get caught.

    My umbrella of cheating includes: looking at porno secretly and flirting.

    Because flirting is asking a question, right?

    The labor lawyer…he sounds like a unicorn. I hope he is real. I hope there are men out there who truly don’t cheat. But….

    *I think if we knew what men really thought about women and sex, how base and completely alien their thoughts are from ours…we would run in horror from them.*
    Someone is making porno gross $14 BILLION a year, and it does not seem like it is the decent women on here or the women like then, who are rolling up their sleeves and making families work.

    I cannot pretend men and women are the same when it comes to cheating. Women on here…they go through the fires of hell to make these marriages work. And most (MOST) of the people caught blowing up their marriages for some strange are men.

    I believe even ones that cheerfully take out the garbage and act like Ward Cleaver do it, if they believe they will not get caught and the “bloom is off the rose” in the marriage, in their mind.

    This is something I do not want to believe, but I have seen too much evidence of the contrary. It makes me tremendously sad and sick, but I still believe that most men cheat, in some way, on their partner. I think our culture winks at them for doing it. It is systemic and unchecked. An epidemic.

      • Have you ever seen a group of women in the street, cat call and wolf whistle a man? (not in Diet Coke Commercial).

        Be honest.

        I have never seen this in my whole life, in any country. Ever. It is a different mind set, men and women.

        To say I am men bashing is low hanging fruit. Too easy. It is what I have seen in my life: over and over and over. It does not make me dance with glee! It makes me sad.

        • Sexism exists. That’s not the same as cheating on your spouse. You stated your belief that 98 percent of men cheat. The argument isn’t does sexism exist. Of course it does. As does sexual harassment, 70 cents on the dollar pay, etc. See insert patriarchy comment above.

          Does sexism help justify cheating? Sure. Of course. So does a lot of faux-feminist gibberish about the glories of being an OW. (I can’t think of anything more regressive than pick me dancing for a man.) I’m a feminist. I don’t believe 98 percent of all men cheat. You’re making the low hanging fruit argument of “all men are this way.” They’re not. And if you really think they are, all the more reason to un-chump and start modeling assertiveness and self-respect to the world.

        • If you include porn use on its own as cheating I think you are right Sylvia, or very close to the numbers. Actual physical affairs, different story. I never even fantasized about someone else, but the traitor kept accusing me of that, so I am sure he was doing that. I couldn’t even mention a movie with an attractive actor without being accused. I just stopped talking about what I liked or didn’t. But he went on about all the celebs he liked, all women, and I never said anything except about one when I pointed out he fancied her because she looked like the whore.

      • I have to agree with Chumped Dude and CL.

        There is sexism and there is cheating. Both suck and are not reserved for either gender.

        The serial cheaters I crossed paths with were equally disgusting. Other than the paid female sex workers, the other female fuckbuddies were surrounded by their fabulous crew of female pro-affair live!laugh!love! shit heads. At first that was horribly shocking to me because I’m female and NOT cheater surrounded by other female NON-cheating friends and family members. I assumed (projection!) other women held the same values and respect for each other and other people.

        I could easily paint a broad picture that 98% of women cheat, read 50 shades of stupid and troll bars and the Internet for re-enactment buddies based only on my personal experiences. Your statement is inaccurate. Not all men cheat and not all women are out ‘to get your man!!!’ .

        • When the traitor demanded a menage a trois with his ex, I assume the ex would laugh in his face and tell him to fuck off, because it even though I thought she was a nasty nut in many ways, she was a normal woman who would abide but the sisterhood code. Chumpity chump chump me…

    • Not all men cheat. It’s pretty common when grieving this crap to go through the whole “I hate the entire gender” thing, but cheating is about character, not gender or orientation. And it’s about entitlement. Some entitlement is entrenched in certain cultures (riff on patriarchy goes here), but that doesn’t mean everyone indulges in this crap. Or doesn’t recognize that it’s wrong, even though some people might give them a pass.

      You get to say what your deal breakers are. If flirting and porn are your deal breakers, okay. But don’t conflate it with cheating.

      As for men cheating — unless they’re cheating with other men (happens) or goats (that probably happens), they’re cheating with WOMEN. So this character shit cuts both ways.

      My Google analytics tell me that nearly 50 percent of my readers are men, despite only a fraction of those men being commenters here. (FWIW, less than 10 percent of anyone who reads a blog comments, I’m told.)

      Men get chumped. My husband got horribly chumped. And guys like Mr. Bielski are not unicorns. They’re good men and they exist.

      • I would like to believe that is true. But, even before I was chumped, I saw too much evidence otherwise that men and women have a different dynamic and belief systems about being faithful.

        • Ive been married twice, and had serious relationships before and since. Not one in my life have I cheated. I’m 50, a college graduate, and have had the opportunity but chose to keep my commitments and vows. I’m sorry the opposite sex has tainted your view, but believe me, not all men cheat, and some of us actually do believe in the sanctity of marriage and our commitments.

          • Sylvia not everyone cheats. Im 61 been through two marriage with cheater pods both of them. A good portion of the population does but not all of them there are awfully good men and women out there who would never consider cheating. I think lots of us go through the other sex sucks phase they are all the dame when they are not especially when it it so fresh and it hasnt been that long. What i fear for myself is i will never believe a good guy if i see one. After getting fucked over twice and the second asswipe i thought was the love of my life. Im no longer bitter but im definately jaded im afraid i just wont ever believe i picked a good one. I will be like yeah sure heard all that before got the scars thanks go away. I really am not putting myself out there again ever while asswipe is happily notching his bedpost with broken hearts. I just dont think i can ever trust again. Three years out ive no desire to date. The longer times passes the clearer we think but not everyone cheats.

        • Sylvia, did you catch what you just said: “even before I was chumped, I saw too much evidence”
          You also used the word “belief”.
          Do you think it’s possible that this is your belief about relationships? And then of course you manifest this belief into your life (I know how it sounds, but please bare with me).
          What if you look inside, what is it about this belief? It has to do with your own childhood, did cheating happened in your family, or perhaps it has to do with your lack of trust in people, maybe someone disappointed you greatly.
          Look inside, what is the root cause of this belief and see if you can change it…

        • Sylvia. I’m with you, except I’m in an EVERYONE-Who-Isn’t-A-Chump-Is-A-Cheater-phase right now. I’m angry at the entire world (except for a nice British man on the phone helping me with some toll fines that x forgot to mention). Earlier today in a fit of pique I withdrew all my money from my credit union of 25 years because they wouldn’t take me off of a joint account with x (who changed the password and locked me out).

          It’s a credit union for teachers. I’m a teacher. He’s a perv.

          I’m fuming with the exhaust of injustice. The campaign, the vitriol, the environment, Syria, Nigeria, the relentless bad news = 2016 is not the year I would have selected to deal with betrayal, had I known.

          I think it’s a cranky, angry response to the realization of a pressure cooker of shit inside us – where discovering the betrayal was just the tip of the iceberg (to mix some metaphors) of shit we’ve endured in life and the destructive patterns we’ve created for ourselves – that is finally ready to burst.

          For me, realizing that my mother was a narc, my first husband too (altho not a cheater), x, boss…and that I have believed for a long time that I was unworthy of being loved unless I made myself indispensable (and ate every shit sandwich), has been depressing. I’ve gotten over x’s rejection. I’m just beginning to climb the Mountain of Poor Childhood Adaptive Strategies.

        • Fallacy of small numbers. Your experience shouldn’t be discounted, but the sample size isn’t anywhere near large enough to draw accurate conclusions from it statistically.

          Some additional anecdotal evidence for you:

          I’m a guy. I’ve been told that I’m attractive, good in bed, and an excellent kisser. I’m a millionaire, and will still be one after the divorce. I travel the world, visiting beautiful places for my work (in the booze biz) regularly. I play in a band. I’m a totally kick ass father. Never cheated, and was chumped.

          • All great qualities, right down to being financially sound. My ex shared many of the same qualities (and for a small moment in time, was also a “kick ass father” which is pretty hot, if you ask me. Hotter is the man who cares for his wife, day in and day out, and really has a good time with her because he “gets it”) but after a while the character disordered fail at life’s challenges, big and small. I recognized there were some things I didn’t admire about ex, but when I discovered his infidelity it was definitely GAME OVER. I was a faithful, loving wife. A kick ass Mom. But I also have faults. I work in a job that doesn’t pay well but gives me a lot of personal satisfaction. I still place others’ needs before my own. All to say that I recognize I will never be perfect, but I was a damn good wife. Cheaters didn’t deserve us, Sephage.

            • Thanks, Drew. Everyone has faults, of course. But you’re entirely correct, the cheaters did not deserve us.

        • Stlvia

          “I would like to believe that is true. But, even before I was chumped, I saw too much evidence otherwise that men and women have a different dynamic and belief systems about being faithful.”

          I know nothing about good men. I married a serial cheater and spent 41 years living with a covert narcissist. I grew up living with a narcissistic raging father.

          We have to heal from the inside out. We have no control over our upbringing or others, only ourselves.

          I suffered the loss of my mother and my husband of 36 years within three months.

          The knowledge I gained through therapy helped me see how I ended up in a relationship with a sociopath.

          I’ve met many chumps of both genders here and in our meet up group. This gives me real hope and the belief that while many men cheat, others share my values. We are in the battlefield together and share the same pain.

          As far as percentages go I’m two for two. I often wondered what is real after living with an illusion.

          Trust is no longer blind. Having insight into the fact that there are men who get this BECAUSE they too suffered from infidelity helps me let go of the belief that most men cheat and lie. We are in good company.

      • “My Google analytics tell me that nearly 50 percent of my readers are men, despite only a fraction of those men being commenters here.”

        I really find the fact that 50% of your readers are men to be interesting. I’ve read plenty of men’s posts on other sites too, even though it seems there’s always more women commenting than men.

        For whatever reason, men don’t seem to comment a whole lot (I have no interest in discussing my wife with my friends but seem to find more catharsis online). Personally it’s all too humiliating to me, and maybe there’s something like that going on to some degree for other male chumps, but that’s just my guess. But no doubt, there are plenty of men out there that have been on the receiving end of some pretty vile stuff. There’s definitely plenty of us out there.

        • I believe that, or used to believe it. Because of this belief I filled in the blanks in traitor’s history with assumptions that he had been hurt and chumpted.My determination to avoid stereotypes about men as cheaters stopped me fixing my picker.

    • Sylvia-

      You mention that you have a “ bizarre problem with always being honest” – I wouldn’t say that you have a problem but I feel that your *surroundings* are dictating your beliefs about men. Sexism exists, yes – but is different than cheating.

      Your comment of “98%” mirrors Rudy’s comment of “everyone does.” – You are throwing 98% of males under the bus with no substantiating evidence other than your own observations.Your percentage is highly exaggerated.

      I would suppose then that 94% of all Italians are in the mob or 92% of all Irish are drunks or etc….etc…..

      I have read your posts and I really am very empathetic to the devastation that you are in the midst of enduring. Your writing paints a clear picture of the destruction your soul is going through and for that, all I can do is offer you support.

      Cheating is mired in entitlement, selfishness and is narcissistic. Bad character is not gender-biased.

    • I have to disagree with this, Sylvia. I don’t have statistics, which would be reliable anyway. But, I gotta say, I love men, and if this blog has taught me nothing else, it’s that there are a whole lot of women shitbags out there, as well as men. And I would hate for any guy to assume I’m going to cheat just because I have a vagina. Admittedly, if you include porn? Then, yes, I cheated on my marriage before XH did. (What can I say? Sometimes I like porn, he didn’t.)

    • The more I learn about narcissists, the more I understand that they are vile, wretched human beings that truly believe if they have to be miserable then by the Gods so does everyone else, especially those unfortunate enough to be closest to them. I had the poor misfortune of discovering much evidence of my cheater’s contact with the OW and their doomed four-month relationship. At first I was absolutely devastated to see how he was pouring his heart out to this woman he just met using words I had never heard from him and acting like I had never even existed. I thought I would literally die from the pain I felt reading those words. But now that I understand how narcissistic brains work I can clearly see how they both deliberately twisted each other up with guilt and lies and then had the audacity to call it “love.” That wasn’t love, it was perversion. They perverted the act of love and what angers me is that they dared to label what they had as being the same, or even greater, than what I had truly felt for him before the demon emerged and took over.

      I understand your frustration Sylvia, I truly do. I feel your pain and wish to give you some hope, for whatever that is worth.

      • If I read correctly Sylvia is saying that cheaters in the majority are men. I’m sure the percentage is not scientific nor will we ever have that accuracy on this. Chumplady pointed out that certainty patriarchal elements breed a type of entitlement among men. I think this leads to the belief that as men they are one step below God, more right than women and entitled to what they want. See King David in the Bible.
        Im not sure why this is considered sexist on Sylvia’s part. It does not discount women who cheat. See Hosea’s wife in the Bible. It is not an absolution of OW.
        The truth is that there is a divergence in thinking by gender largely influenced by culture more so than hormones.

        I notice even in the comments from our men here the level of clarity they possess when looking at their situation. they are quick to conclude that despite what their partners are saying that they cannot be invested. I find we women are less direct in getting there. We stop along the path. We fight far harder to make sense of what does not make sense.
        Again this is speaking generally.

        Even how men process the act of being cheated on and how society views them. I imagine in some ways it is harder for them to speak up or to garner any sympathy. This could be viewed as sexist. We did not directly create this situation but it is.

        I for one have a soft spot for all chumps but male chumps in particular. I find they are ridiculed and generally treated with insensitivity especially by male ‘friends’. Maybe they can enlighten us.

        I read Sylvia’s comments and never concluded that the comments were intended to be sexist. It may not be what we wish to acknowledge here. Maybe it is seen as divisive. But generally speaking what she says does apply and like I said it applies for some of the reasons mentioned by CL.

        • I felt the same way as Sylvia for a long time, probably because the messages I was getting were that men get restless, they get bored, can’t resist beautiful women who throw themselves at them, blah, blah, blah so I completely understand the frustration.

          Men do handle things differently in general. When my sister became the fuckwit in her marriage the first thing my BIL did when they separated after his D-Day was sign up for multiple online dating sites. “Really,” I said? “You don’t want time to heal first?” “Why,” he said. “The best medicine for a broken heart is to go find someone else.” That really kind of turned me off and I thought well I guess men can just flip a switch and move on just like my fuckwit did, which brought me to the conclusion that if I dated again, how disposable would I be to someone if became invested in them. It’s hard not to generalize a whole gender when all or most of your experiences are the same. I’m sure men generalizations about women too.

          • My take on the men versus women cheaters is that most people cheat with someone of the opposite sex. So the numbers of cheaters is relatively equal between male and female.

            My take is also that if either person in the couple is involved in another relationship with someone who is being lied to about this relationship, it is cheating. Cheating = lying. If you don’t know about the other relationship, you are a victim of the liar, not an ow/om. Until you know, then if you continue the relationship you are a cheater as well.

  • My ex also said a variation of ‘everybody cheats’; je tried to convince me that cheating ‘was just something that happened in long-term relationships’. Stupidly, for a while I tried to show him that wasn’t true (statistics, examples among the people we knew…).

    Then I realized; I just don’t want to be with a person who thinks that way.

    He can think what he wants now, as long as it’s far from me!

    (Of course now he’s trying to convince the kids that his cheating on me, lying to them, threats of violence, and abandoning them were not that big a deal. Good luck with that, idiot.)

  • A Hearty “Hip, Hip, Horay” for Mr. John Bielski, a hero in my book for even bothering to tweet his status and for Tracy to find his point of view. There are people who stand by their vows, honor their commitments, live long contented lives together. Couples who value and respect each other and appreciate what their partners bring to the table. His attitude is refreshing. Honest and kind hearted is good stuff. And in the end, aren’t those the best qualities by which to be remembered?

  • Bleargh.

    Everybody who cheats on their spouse is likely to cheat in other ways, like not paying taxes, claiming welfare when able to work, gaming the system and then use the “I know you are but what am I?” (hereafter known as the Guiliani defense) when caught.

    And, no, I am not talking about any politicians, orange or otherwise, that would be Mr Fab.

    So, yep, like all Chumps I have had that moment. But it was a good one for me to understand what Ole Fabby McFabFace really was, in terms of character.

    Isn’t one of the definitions of narcissism that it is pervasive, i.e. it is everywhere in their lives?

    Of course, I’d be chided as a Bitter Bunny for saying as much. I am okay with that, because, LOGIC. Past behavior is an indicator of future behavior. I sincerely believe we are all entitled to a private life, but if you live in public, that is somewhat forfeit. And if you cheat on your wife, you’ll cheat the public, too.

  • Yeah, I just about fell out of my chair when Rudy said that.

    No, not everybody cheats. That’s called “projection”.

    Sigh.

  • One of my ex’s sisters actually told our son (he was 18 at the time) that “everyone cheats.” I was kind of floored that not only would an aunt tell her teenage nephew such a thing, but that she told him this on the eve before her own daughter got married. At any rate, when son told me this, I told him that first of all, NO, not everyone cheats, and my guess is that the majority of people are NOT cheaters, although there are certainly far too many cheaters out there. Secondly, I told him that anyone who says “everyone cheats” is really telling you that THEY cheat. I actually know for a fact that the aunt in question is a cheater, so no surprise about that.

  • Really Rudy? Thanks for including me and the other good half of this world on your warped narcissistic assumptions of what you think “everyone does”. This is just the most offensive projection that can come from a public figure!

    Didn’t they teach you when you went to The College of Fuck that you should’t project your views on race, religion and sex upon the public?

    Now if you really want to laugh….. can you believe that this ass-clown considered becoming a priest? No bullshit!

    • Boy, the RC dodged a bullet there. Can’t you just see the payoffs they’d be having to make to cover up his “sins”? And who knows which group of innocents would have been his targets?

  • I just about puked my orange juice up when he said it. Both of these candidates have said and done ignorant things as have their surrogates. But this one takes the cake. And by claiming everybody does it, he is of course saying his ex should have been smart enough to catch on to what he was doing. Good job rudy, blame the victim.

  • I got the “at least I kept coming home to you” line. Really? And he thought that having a cheating whore of a husband was better than no husband? He’s wrong. I divorced him as soon as I could find money for the legal fees.

    Everyone does not cheat….I think he knew that. Maybe that’s why he followed that up with “No one else will put up with you”. Really? Maybe I shouldn’t tell him how many men I’ve turned down since I put him out….

  • By the time I get to CL’s parties everyone has eloquently expressed all sides of the issues. I am grateful for that. For what it is worth, I’ll chime in.

    Even though Rudy’s statement is rife with projection and gaslit with the hot air of guilt, let’s (for the sake of discussion) assume it could be true. Statistical analysis of successful people repeatedly shows that they represent the 4 to 5% of their subset that thinks/acts quite differently from their cohorts. No support for herd mentality if success in life matters.

    I had a client, seeing me because of the issues his drinking had caused for his family, tell me that he drank a 26 oz’er and 12 beer per day. I asked if he thought that was a lot of alcohol to consume every 24 hours. He replied, “No. Not really. All of friends drink that much.”

    As to it being a gender issue, CL nailed that one:

    “As for men cheating — unless they’re cheating with other men (happens) or goats (that probably happens), they’re cheating with WOMEN.”

    And for male Chumps, the cheating population could appear entirely female.

    Character. We all get to decide what individuated values we will live by. And once decided, we can choose people with values that fit with our own.

  • I’m just not buying into the “all men cheat” thing either. While I’ve known many a cheater, I’ve also known a ton of men, friends, relatives, even partners of mine who did not cheat. Who even look down on other men who do cheat. As a result of my experience with serial cheaters I feel as if I have no idealism left, so I don’t think I’m being Pollyanna-ish at all. Saying all men cheat is to me paramount to saying all women marry for money and status. It simply isn’t so. Also, I think cheating would be a less common phenomenon if fewer people tolerated it, to be honest, but there is still that sexual double standard of giving men a pass for bad behavior because it’s “natural” for them them to want to spread their seed.

    As one commentor noted, polyamory and swinging are legitimate life choices, I have friends who honestly practice these lifestyles and I respect their choices and their integrity. Monogamy is not for everyone. Not everyone wants it or can hack it, it’s true. If so, please be honest about it and keep away from those of us who both desire and can make monogamy work.

  • I do agree that it is a character flaw and not a gender issue. My ex husband’s mother cheated and left her marriage for the AP. My ex father in law also believes my husband’s Grandma had an affair. Now, my ex has done the same thing. I have told my 5 year old daughter that Daddy’s “new” girlfriend was someone he was with when we were still married. I don’t want her to think that it’s okay to cheat. I want to stop the cycle!

    • cricket1114, you’ll stop the cycle by modelling good values to your daughter.
      You divorced and left the mess he has created. You are doing a great job! You daughter learns what’s normal from you.
      I know being a single parent is not what we wished for our children, but is infinitely better than staying in a toxic marriage. My 2 years old son got to see his dad with 2 women: his mother and the babysitter. That’s fucked up!
      The simple fact that I separated from cheaterpants made my son’s emotional life better. I think he has a good chance of growing into a normal person, with moral values. The fact that he chooses to punish his father by ignoring him, tells me he’s on the right path.

  • I never got the “everybody is doing it” line. But, I did get the “I’m not like other cheaters” line. My STBXH claims to this day that his intentions were to make everyone happy. That he is a nice guy with a huge heart and that is how he ended up in this situation. I guess his huge heart just couldn’t resist moving in with AP to make her happy (they both suck). The sad part is he has been telling himself these lies so long that he truly believes he is a good person and can’t understand why nobody wants anything to do with him. He plays the victim role not realizing he is truly a monster.

    • Exactly! My STBXH wanted to make everyone happy. Me, the nanny, everybody! He was such a nice guy. It wouldn’t have been nice for him to leave anyone out. Everybody deserved to be f***ed by him. And it certainly wouldn’t have been nice for him to come clean about his cheating – then I would have been be sad, and nice guys don’t make their wives sad.

    • I believe they do know. Noel. The claim of being a good guy who is trying to make everyone happy is typical of covert narcissists. These are statements the Limited repeatedly made.

      I’m a simple guy.
      I’m only like this with you.
      I get along with everyone.
      Everyone likes me.

      They don’t have relationships with anyone. It’s all about surface acquaintances. They are lazy.
      They play the victim and are predators.
      As much as I can’t stand his hag, she too is a victim. He chose a needy mentally I’ll desperate woman no guy would ever tangle with. What does she have to offer. It’s al about use. And I doubt she will survive the discard once she figures it out. Monsters seek power and control. He seeks to destroy. They know.

  • I’m fifty-one, and I’ve never cheated in a relationship. So that’s one person. Maybe he meant “Everybody who’s ANYBODY”, in which case I’m happy to (once again) be in the uncool minority.

  • Rudolf the Red-Nosed Liar sucks! I cheated on my boyfriend in high school ,(just petting) and I felt horrible afterwards. I swore I would never do that again. SEE!….some people learn! Never, ever cheated on skankboy, EVAH! People with empathy learn from poor decisions and learn to do better.

    • When young some do things they are not proud of but if they learn the lesson about peoples feelings and never do it again now thats a great thing. You felt awful never did it again. See you rock!

    • My boyfriend at the time cheated on me with Miss Junior America……..still no excuse……as a teen, best way to get back was to cheat………it sooooo sucked! Never again!

  • So he says everybody cheats.
    Then why bring up former President Bill Clinton’s infidelities ?
    If Rudy Giuliani cheats, if everybody cheats, why not let Clinton cheat?
    There is no logic and no reason to Mr Rudy Giuliani’s statements.
    But then, doesn’t this fit perfectly into the psychopathic mind: holding 2 conflicting statements, and accepting them both as true? Same old cliche: “rules apply to others, not to me”. We get the point: he’s a POS

    • To make a note on the 2 conflicting statements:
      I can see how easy it is for them to choose whichever version suits them, at any given time. It doesn’t have to be congruent or to make sense. No! All it has to do is suit their purpose, make them look good.
      These people have no back bone. And they don’t mind!
      They flash their arrogance in your face, with a raised ton and with definite statements: “everybody cheats”

    • Enraged,
      You hit the nail on the head.
      At least per my ex, when I asked him why he thought it was perfectly okay that he cheated, but it would NOT have been if I had cheated.

      His exact reply was “that’s not how it works in my world!”

      So they truly see nothing wrong with this line of thinking.

      Even the orange buffoon said, in relation to his own infidelities (in an interview about him threatening to bring up Bill’s history, but the same logic would apply to Hillary):

      Steinhauser continued, “And you’re not worried your past history at all?”

      Trump replied, “No, not at all. I have a very good history.”

      So see…it’s perfectly okay when THEY do it…in their world.

      • They do re-write history, don’t they?
        The only thing left to say to such a specimen (they are obviously a different species, different than normal):
        You are NOT normal!

    • Oh bother! Why are you trying to kill the man’s argument with logic?! Off on your Logic angle. poking holes in a perfectly good lie. Logic and lies don’t mix.

    • I’m watching the whole election saga from the other side of the ocean: I’m not american.
      And what I saw years ago, was that a democratic country chose a black man over a woman. Proving that race was not an issue for americans, but gender had a “?”
      And now, there is still indecision, whom to choose!
      I call this sexism of the highest rank!

      • Yep. When we elected Obama, my heart swelled. I was so fucking proud. I voted for him and thought him the best choice. After how Bush ruined us globally, we needed Obama. Now when I see how people treat a female candidate in the country, even though she clearly is the most qualified and STABLE, I’m very angry again.

        There is a problem here in that a lot of people don’t give a fuck about history. They have no idea what it took to give blacks the same rights as whites, or to give women the same rights as men. And on both fronts, we are still not even CLOSE to where we should be. A lot of my kids millennia friends have not a clue. It drives me absolutely insane. They would rather vote for an independent who can’t name a world leader than vote for Hillary.

        I saw an interview with one 20 year old; her Bernie got blown out so she’s not voting at all. Except to legalize pot in her home state. SMH . . .

    • My last comment on the subject: the very reason we have this topic of discussion is…yep, the best they can do is to bring up the woman’s husband’s infidelities! WTF? How is that her mistake? How is that reflecting her moral values or her backbone? How THAT has anything to do with her?
      I’m sorry, but at this moment, I see no difference between American society and the world where women are seen as a trading merchandise.
      On a tour to one of these countries, as state secretary, some young dumb ass asked Hillary what her husband thinks of x subject. To which she replied: better ask him. She was pissed and I was totally with her.
      They didn’t care what her opinion was, they wanted to know what the man’s opinion was.

      • Hi, Enraged –

        On CNN I heard that Trump was going to bring up how Hillary wasn’t nice to the women Bill engaged in affairs with. She supposedly hired private investigators and “tried to bring them down”. How awful of her. I think the legitimate issue that they could call her out on is choosing to stay with Bill after years of infidelity. Not being nice to affair partners seems silly and weak.

        • ha ha, so what’s the protocol when meeting the affair partner? To say “thank you”?
          How fucked up are these specimens? And why are we even paying attention to them?

          Other cultures stone these women to death. For ruining a family and the sanctity of family.
          Not sure anymore who are the barbarians: the stoners, the affair partners or the adulterous men.
          I think the latter 2: the adulterous men for ruining his own family and for bringing death upon the affair partner.
          The affair partner for ruining a a family.

          We as society have a moral duty to shame these things. To name and shame adultery! Sitting calm and pretending everything is cool brings us more of the same. And the cheaters flaunting it to our faces. Same as Trump shamelessly claims he’s smart for not paying taxes.

          That’s why I like Chump Lady. She tells it as it is, she’s not hiding her head in the sand. Why are we???

  • Tracy, I’m so glad you posted this today. I saw it yesterday on cnn.com and my blood has been on full boil ever since.

    One of my “favorite” parts of the article is where Rudy is quoted as saying, “”Well, everybody does,” Giuliani said. “And I’m a Roman Catholic, and I confess those things to my priest. ”

    Soooooo okay. I’m an Atheist, so for the moment, I’m gonna put aside my commentary on the whole “I’m a Roman Catholic” shit, other than to wonder THIS: When you confessed those “things” (awww, those cute little “things”) to your priest, did HE then have to go make an appt at the GYN, spread his legs, and say out loud “yes, I thought I was in a monogmous relationship with my husband, but ummmmmm can you test me for every STD there is?” I’m guessing probably not.

    Okay. Now a real question, did his lovely, god-fearing Roman Catholic priest go inform Mrs. Giuliani that maybe SHE needed to go to the GYN and say those things? No? Did he make Rudy say a couple of hail marys and go on his way while the HPV that Ms. Guliani might very well have crawling all inside of her lady parts and giving her pre-cancerous tumors on her cervix went about her business of cooking her loving husband dinner?

    Yes. Probably. So, fuck the priest, too.

    I was in NYC on 9/11 and am sick to my stomach that I thought for one second that night that he was respectable that day or ever. FUCK YOU, GIULIANI.

    • I’m a “Roman Catholic” (baptized and confirmed)..who lives in the Northeast…who is very familiar with a certain investigative journalist group who blew lid off the biggest scandal of the 21st century with regard to the Catholic Church.

      They lost me at the number 90. (I’ll leave at that but if you are familiar with Spotlight, you know what I’m talking about) As far as I’m concerned Rudy should STFU about defending what he did with his “Roman Catholic background.

      Just for the record, I usually don’t even admit that I’m Catholic except to prove a point like this one. Rudy should be ashamed of himself.

    • Santo freakin’ cristo. I’m Roman Catholic, recovering :), and no where in my religious doctrination were we taught that cheating, stealing, lieing and other forms of harm to our brothers was acceptable.

      Situational ethics. Cafeteria Catholic. Cheater denial. That’s what this dude is about.

      • I’m Catholic as well. Part of reconciliation is a truly remorseful heart. Anyone who says “everyone cheats” does not have true remorse. He may think that he is all good simply because he went to confession, but he may not be. Not really for us to judge. He will stand before God at the end of his life and God made it pretty clear what he thinks of adultery.

  • I’m a 53-year-old man and I’ve never cheated, not during the 22-year marriage to my cheating ex wife, and not in the six years of my second marriage to a wonderful fellow chump . Does that make me a freak? I hope not. Feels pretty normal to me. But then again, I also read hardcover books, drive the speed limit, and purchased every song on my iPod. Okay, maybe I am a freak. But not for the reasons Rudy gave. #faithfulisnormal

  • Well if everybody cheats, then why do these cheaters hide it? Why do they keep it under wraps and lie to their spouse? I mean if it’s such common knowledge and everyone does it, then why not openly engage in the act, if it’s SO commonly accepted and SO commonly practiced! The fact they need to keep it a secret and screw over their spouse is exactly a perfect indication that not *everybody* cheats.

    • Amen, Kellia! They sure as shit don’t want anybody up know who and what they are. You’d think these fools would be proud of their soulmate true eternal special loves! But no, they lose their damn mind if you tell anybody.

    • Everybody cheats is their argument but by dint of hiding it from…just about everyone! …They tacitly acknowledge that it is wrong (they will call it ‘not socially accepted’… yet) .

      I think they secretly hope that of they can brow beat enough chumps into submission they could openly flaunt their adultery (they call it freedom to be meeee OR twuluv) in peace (dammit!)

      Stfu chumps! Let my awesome flag fly! ( I speak a bit of narcish)

  • Mr. I Didn’t Do Anything Wrong accused me of ruining his reputation and making him look bad, blah blah blah . and how did I do that? By telling people what he DID. Loser.

  • Never cheated. Never will. I’m 37. I thought of how it would make my partner feel…them there trusting me. Thinking I am giving my all. I could not in good conscience betray that trust. I’d leave first and even that is not likely. Despite manchild,’s many mantrums and cheating I never cheated. I always wanted to talk it out find ourselves a solution. Get to the root.
    Never again. I will never invest that much effort in any partner again. Too much energy. I’m zapped.

  • I do think there is a great number of men and women who feel entitled to Cheat and that there are factors which up the probability of someone cheating(wealth, travel, opportunity, hanging w/those who share the same lack of values. Ex once stated he’d be okay with cheating if he could guarantee never having to pay the consequences, like this decision wouldn’t hurt someone else?) but the bottom line is character. Cheaters lack boundaries. When married, I always wondered why a certain group of women felt the need to tell me “how lucky I was” to be married to Craphead, often saying this in front of us both. I didn’t recognize that some were fishing. (Trusting Chump here.) It’s what Cheaters do though. They cast their lines wide, hoping to connect with someone equally fucked up. You cheat because you have made the decision to do so. It is hundreds of small decisions and disregarding all else. Mr. G there is telling his truth, I am sure he is surrounded by Cheaters. It’s all he sees and all he knows.

  • One of the “best” lines I’ve heard on this topic was not from my own cheater-ex, but from one of my best friend’s exes (she’s on this site daily). After learning about his years of infidelity, he shockingly turned to her and said, “you mean you didn’t sleep with other people?” It still amuses me in the worst way possible. The question is telling, however. I think some cheaters do convince themselves that everyone cheats to make themselves feel better about their behavior. My ex had the privilege of absolutely knowing I would never cheat. He brought this up many times during wreckonciliation (my spell check STILL doesn’t know this is a very real thing!!).

    The comments in the news around infidelity have been haunting me. When Trump said in a past interview… “life was great… I had a beautiful wife… I had a beautiful girlfriend…”. Seriously, WTF??? Followed up this week by “infidelity was never a problem in my marriages. I have a great past.” Maybe it wasn’t a problem for him, but I bet it was for his wives! I just can’t even handle these comments!!!!

    I’m with you, CL, with my middle finger raised towards Costa Rica!! Not the country, but best guess is that’s where cheater ex is hiding to avoid paying alimony.

  • I was able to avoid commenting on this post yesterday. Any time I get mired down in celebrity/politician cheating gossip I get suicidal. But if there are any chumps still on the fence, here’s a photo of a couple guys from Trump’s cheater brain-trust, Giuliani and Ailes, today in Cleveland. Two minutes after this photo was taken Batman swooped in and tied them all to a light post.

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