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Dear Chump Lady, Husband said OW’s name during sex

saynameDear Chump Lady,

My husband had a six-year affair with Jackie. I found out six months ago and we have been diligently working to reconcile. He claims to disclose all, but last night I confronted him with debit card charges to hotels and restaurants. He had told me that she paid for all the hotels and they never went out. He was “shocked” by the charges and said he honestly didn’t remember them. There were a lot of expensive meals and hotels. Tried to tell me they were years ago, but dates were last November, December and this year. Claims that’s how much he hated her, he blanked it out.

I figure let’s keep this in perspective. We worked it out by 2 a.m. last night and were having sex when he says, “This feels so good let’s do this all day Ja…” Horrified, I start sobbing, “You called me Jackie!”

He claims I was squishing him and knocked the air out of his chest and he made the ‘ja’ sound, but caught himself and was as horrified as I was as he immediately thought I would think he was he was saying her name.

Is this believable? He has also threatened me — get out of his sight, and said to throw him out if I don’t believe him.

I am exhausted.



Dear LosingMyMind,

I don’t believe him. Can we throw him out, please?

Let’s review why this “reconciliation” is not sustainable.

  1. SIX-year affair. Six years. SIX YEARS. Six. Six!!! Your husband is a–okay with the double life thing. He can sustain lying to your face for 2,190 days straight without flinching. This is someone who prefers cake as a lifestyle. Six years!
  2. He’s gaslighting you. Pay no attention to the EVIDENCE — hotel and restaurant receipts. Pay no attention to the TIME STAMPS. Pay no attention to the missing marital monies. No wonder you feel like you’re losing your mind — he’s denying your reality. THE reality. That’s a recipe to make anyone stark, raving bonkers.
  3. You reward his lies with sex. The pick-me dance performed naked. It makes you sob. Let’s keep this “in perspective”? Okay — “this” is fucked up.
  4. He threatens you. Can’t you just feel the remorse?
  5. Jackie is still in the picture. She’s there in the hotel receipts and on his mind. She’s a very convenient tool to bludgeon you with. Heck, I’m not even sure your husband made a “mistake” calling out her name, and then denying it. This is your cue to pick me dance harder! More frantically! Is your self-esteem worn down to a nub? Good. Gaslighting for the sake of gaslighting means you’ll just accept his version of reality, no matter how outlandish. Cake is maintained.

Let me tell you how this plays out next. After you read this and get uppity and start asserting reality — he will punish you. The channel will be firmly set to “self-pity.”

Really, Losing? You’re going to throw it all away because of ONE STUPID MISTAKE? Which wasn’t even a mistake? It was a MONOSYLLABLE! Ja could MEAN ANYTHING! Jammy Dodger! Jacobite! Jabberwocky! Why must you punish him for this trifle?

So you’re not going to assert reality to a fuckwit, Losing. You’re going to go straight to a lawyer and start lining up those ducks to leave him. Because you have absolutely NOTHING to work with here. He’s not sorry. He’s not truthful. And he’s still cheating.

If he doesn’t like the consequences you’re about to lay on him? Tell him to blank it out. Apparently that’s what he does when he just hates things so much. Tell him it’s much easier to divorce him unconscious. Press for a better settlement!

Let the fuckwit be Jackie’s problem. She’s sustained the pick me dance for six years. What do you want to guess, he says your name too?

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • You are absolutely right on. I left one of these 5 years ago. I love my life SO MUCH MORE!!!!!

  • Can you do a blog in what we are grateful not to have?

    Drama….fuckwits…receipts……texts to the ow.

    • Add:

      the skeevy remnants of his mangrooming in the bathroom sink and floor (that you’re expected to clean) found before his date, er, “work function” with the bimbo.

      • Oh, my god–the monospacing detritus all over the bathroom! I do not miss that, but somehow I had forgotten it. Guess I blanked it out…

      • Jeez, I should be grateful that The Coward left manscaping remnants in the master bath toilet for me to flush. And I mean a MOUND of gray pubes (ulllllgh!) So considerate of him! Or, an artistic impression of a giant middle finger. He’s artistic, you know.
        Ohhh, my God I do not miss him.

        • Mine was to old to bother manscaping. Or was his feet before bed. Instead he’d douse his neck with expensive cologne at 11:00 pm so I couldn’t smell anything through my aching head.

          • Mine used to ask me to check the state of his haemerhoids for him…a task I gladly relinquish to OW.

      • Man Scaping….OMG…I’m fairly new here…. Just made the connection. I even helped out, by shaving his fucking back. Almost 4 months out and life is s-l-o-w-l-y coming back. GET OUT LosingMyMind. You are not LOSING YOUR MIND, he is stealing it. GET OUT NOW.

        • I’m still have pennies drop years on
          Eg suddenly ex wanted me to wax his back for him, starting trimming his pubic hair… how dumb was I?!

    • Yes… I am so grateful that I only spent about five days doing the pick-me dance. This letter made me feel so sad. I remember being back there and how hollow I felt inside; I was so scared to end the marriage. I am so glad that I did. Let Jackie have him, Losing. The only “losing” you will be doing will be losing the toxicity and disrespect this man brings into your life.

        • my dance was for about a week. during which I lost 10 pounds and was devastated and he continued to fuck his “friend” he denied he was fucking in the first place. (thanks uber for the subpoenaed records and PI that confirmed her address).
          I’m sorry but 6 years is unforgivable. 1 time is but for Christ sake, 6 years? NO FUCKING WAY. Let Jackie have that loser. He’ll cheat on her too if he hasn’t already.
          And the gas lighting? OMG. I hate men. will never date again.

          • There are a lot of lovely men who would treat you as you deserve. Don’t write off the whole gender. Just as we females do not all behave like UXworld’s KK …

          • But, many more men do this shit than women. Sorry- those are the facts.

            I did not see women strolling around Cambodia and Thailand with 12 year old boys to fuck.

            I don’t see groups of women cat calling men on the street, and groups of college girls raping men who get drunk at frat parties.

            Most women will hang on with her bloody fingertips to make a marriage work.

            I am not saying there may be some decent men out there, but when someone tries to sell anyone the myth that men and women are cut from the same cloth- no way.

            Go to a strip club. Watch. Observe. Learn. Then tell me most men are decent. Even the men posting on here *know* how men talk and think and the rubric for cheating:
            1) opportunity
            2) likelihood of getting caught

            • I know i should just drop this and agree to disagree, but i don’t accept the idea that the existence of many decent men is a myth. I know we females here have had horrible encounters with complete assholes, but that one asshole in my life in no way cancels out my father, brother, cousins, many lovely male friends and coworkers, and the large number of wonderful guy chumps here. Hate the particular assholes, absolutely, but appreciate and celebrate the good guys out there. Okay, I promise I will now let this drop.

            • You are absolutely wrong that men do this more than women. It is close to 50/50 with women in the 25_45 age range outpacing men. Overall men are slightly in the lead but only due to the over 65 women being outpaced dramatically.
              But,among the under 65 crowd,women are just as likely to cheat.
              Again,in the 25-45 demograhic,they have a slight edge.

              • Arnold I haven’t seen you here in awhile. Nice to see you! I agree, I think women tend do be more subtextual with this. More EA, or more sneaky, but I totally think women cheat as much as men, I dunno. It’s dumb

      • I faked this dance. I already had evidence he is living with his whore.
        I was texting him in the evening, with sweet texts pleading for reconciliation. I knew she was sitting next to him, bothered by him texting back. I disturbed their romantic evenings and it felt soooo good! Gave a her a taste of her own medicine, whoring babysitter!

    • Yes, please. Two-plus years later, I am grateful not to have:
      – the gut problems I suffered the last five years of our marriage, for which doctors could find no cause (gone! poof!!);
      – watching the clock but feeling guilty for watching the clock, so much wanting him to come home on time from work just once to show me (not tell me!) that he’d rather be home with me than at his restaurant;
      – making up the day’s agenda, because he really can’t be bothered to decide where to eat or hike, or even what to do or not do. Addendum: No matter what I decide, he doesn’t really like it;
      – cooking for someone who can’t even be bothered to say thanks, all because one day I TOLD him I thought it was rude that he didn’t say thanks and so now he didn’t FEEL like saying it because he was EXPECTED to do so;

      I could go on & on…

  • Are these cheaters for real with their lies? Do they not realised how ludicrous they sound? Let Jackie have at this guy. Your life will be so much better for not having him in it.

    • the more they lie and the more she believes, the less he respects her. He’s testing: how deep is your love? or how stupid are you?

      • YES! This was such a bitter lesson for me to learn so late in life. The more he lied, and the more I tried desperately to believe him, the less respect he had for me. A very simple formula, really. I was so slow to understand it, though.

        • I know, it hurts like hell to come to this realisation. But understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you or any chump. There are empty people out there, without a heart or soul. Empty shells, carcasses. Predators, who are out to hunt: sex, money, fame, even attention. They are really good at playing roles of human beings…
          And if you realise this and detach from this toxic tango, they will instantly leave you. Because you know. If they are really sick, they’ll try to tear you apart. That’s why is important to keep your head up, cut your losses and make new connections. It’s not healthy to be disconnected from the rest of humanity. This is part of our evolution.
          I think Tracy does a marvellous job at keep a community together, helping our collective wisdom to evolve.

  • Jackie sounds really special. This guy is really disconnected from his penis, but these types can literally sex anyone. Too bad you didn’t have another guys name in your mouth at the time, but you dont want to play his game. Leave before his tryst leave you with a special gift.

  • He has just begged/dared/challenged you to throw him out. He wants to leave but he wants to blame you. Line up those ducks and make him so uncomfortable that he leaves on his own initiative. Middle-schooler maturity level requires middle-schooler tactics.

    • Yes! I believed mine would never have filed. Cowards and liars everyone. Someone has to the right thing and it’s not going to be your cheater or Jackie! It’s you.

    • You hit the nail on the head about him wanting to leave and blaming you. They always have to be the victim. When I found out I told X we could work it out (34 years). He wanted me to throw him out, when I didn’t he ran off the next day while I was at work. Blamed it on me. See he had to leave because of all the horrible things I said to him. I had told him he needed to dump the girl friend. Poor guy, I’m such a bitch.

    • God, yes. My ex seriously hates me for filing for divorce. He is actually wounded about it. I can only think because a) he was told there would be months if not years worth of pick me dancing and cake from me and the mistress and/or b) when I pulled the trigger on the divorce, whatever promises he made CFMD he suddenly had to deliver on. No evil troll wife standing in the way of their happiness any longer.

      They are cowards and manipulators and honestly we are better off without their toxicity in our lives. And the fact that we still (at least in the beginning) want them with every fiber of our being tells you how very much mind fucked we have all been by these people through all the years.

    • “He wants to leave but he wants to blame you. ”

      YES YES YES.

      Kunty Kibbler pushed and pushed every limit to where I was forced to make the decision for both of us, then had the nerve several weeks later to say “… but you WANTED this!!”

      • Mine said, “I tried so hard, but you never wanted me back anyway.”

        How hard did he “try?”

        *3 days after I found the condoms and sexual harassment notes in his computer bag, and he knew divorce was a very strong possibility, he still took his mistress on a trip to China with him.

        *Continually blamed his affair on me, “You should obsess less about my affair and more about why I was unhappy with you at the time!”

        *After I’d repeatedly said I wanted to divorce, he booked a MC meeting, and then behaved like a complete haughty ass during it. MC’s assessment? “He’s not relationship material.”

        • Eew. Eew. Eew. He never deserved you. He lost you and for that he is just a gross fuckup that is the dumbest mofo on the planet.

          • Thank you, EX. Why do I have the feeling you and I should have drinks one day? (In a bar with no children allowed, because, well, potty language. I adore your posts and your chutzpah!)

        • Tempest, are we married to the same guy?

          Mine always said he was not the “husband material”, dislikes the family routine and that I should keep him for fun only. So all the work was done by me. When I suggested divorce he said no because how could he do that as I am such a great “wife material.”
          And his 15-year long-distance affair (longer than our 12 year marriage) with his split-soul is supposedly over now because his split soul deteriorated (most probably cheated on him and her husband with her multiple yonger lovers) and he does not want to follow her route. So I should just relax, forget and move forward. And as for his one-off sexual encounters all these years? Well, he was not going to get married to whores, and I understand that, right? I have to hold high regard for him in my eyes for that. So I should stop obsessing over the one-offs, they were just pastime. Because I did not tend to his sensitive soul and his needs so he had to “take care of his needs on his own”

          I wonder how much more shit sandwich I need to eat before I finally take the step.

          • LongtimeChump–how much more shit sandwich do you need to eat before you leave?

            NONE. Your H is an entitled, manipulative jackass. The whole time you’ve been married he’s been screwing someone else? He’s a parasite on you and your goodwill. Get angry and get moving. How fucking dare he treat you like that–you are worthy of respect and love (which you will never get from him; ask how I know).

            It is painful, it is scary, but it is also a huge RELIEF to leave someone like that (again, ask me how I know). We’ve got your back, and use the forums for specific advice or support as you need it. This is the only emotional rollercoaster where you actually terminate at UP. Hugs!

          • Longtimechump, that’s text book narcissistic personality disordered!
            Cannot commit, does not stick around when you are in need, cannot be held accountable, entitled POS.
            He is fucked up from craddle, if not from genes. Nor relationship (with any human) material, definitely!

  • LosingMyMind
    Please leave. I can tell you that at some point you will be almost ‘grateful’ although that is not the right word, that this has been going on for SIX YEARS.
    Some of us chumps, me for instance, are really good at trying to not look at reality, to not see what we don’t want to see, at trying to avoid what we know is the right choice for us.
    Mine had three affairs for FOUR YEARS. I think the sheer hideous fact of this was enough that even I couldn’t spackle that. I think now, thank heavens it wasn’t less, it wasn’t a year or six months as I know enough about myself to know I might have been able to spackle that for quite a while. But even I had to face the fact that I did not have a thing to work with. It was over. Dead. Done. I have a lot to fix about myself. I’m only four months from ddays. But I feel I am absolutely on the right path.
    Trust CL and chumps here. They will always steer you right and keep you on course (thanks Ian) and hold your hand while you forge a new life for yourself. Good luck. It’s not easy but it is worth it.

  • Pardon me, faithful chumpy wife, but I am so consumed with hatred for Jackie I conveniently blanked out those hotel and restaurant charges.
    Bitch please….I have heard some dandies come out of The ClusterFuck B Sociopath’s liar hole, but that’s one he knew better to try.
    I hope you get far away from this monster. He will cheat on you again it’s just a matter of time.

      • If only it was possible to blank out a whole person and 18 years, I would be so much farther in my recovery. LOL!

        • can they possibly be any sicker? They are just disgusting. All the while he blanked it out he had that smirk on his face for 6 years!!!! It’s hard to see the reality in the beginning but she must force herself to unload this stinking piece of shit. “Blanked it out” my ass. Blanked his wife out while balls deep in Jackie. OMG he pisses me off entitled bitch.

          • I have never met or read about a cheater who was not an entitled,unempathetic,lying Cluster B.
            The details may vary somewhat,but what Losing describes is not much different than what many of us went through.
            The amazing thing is that we still have questios,sometimes,about whether we got this right and acted correctly in divorcing.
            Really,there is nothing to work with with these types.

  • LosingMyMind, please just run to your nearest best divorce lawyer and file. Think of it as filing for a new life.

  • ” he blanked it out.”

    No, he didn’t blank anything out, he is a big fat fucking liar who hates consequences.

    The fact that we ever believed this shit is amazing. You have proof in your hands that he dated her this year…there you go. Looking back, I spackled more shit than I can even believe, so LMM is in really good company, but that is why we are here – to tell you to cut this shit out

    • Word. We believed this horrid crap flowing from liar holes too. Please please please release yourself from this agony. You must save yourself.
      “Big fat fucking liar” succinctly sums up his deluded cunt face ass. Yeah fuck him he makes me furious.

    • Their motivated-amnesia is astounding!

      Mine couldn’t remember if he made gradwhore climax or not during oral sex. I said, “You were down there, weren’t you? How could you miss it?” It’s comical now, but what a mindfuck at the time.

      • +1
        douche said “I think she did.” Huh?

        I asked, “couldn’t you tell?” She’s 30 and lives at home with her daddy, I seriously doubt she did — it was all fake to get our money.” (FF two years and in the deposition he reveals he’s paid $125,000 for her living expenses — booyah! I called it)

        Him: “well, she seemed to like it.”


        Also, though, shows how sick I was that I even asked. That I even gave him one more second of my precious life. I don’t now. Completely NC. He lost me. His loss. My gain.

        • I’ve mentioned this before, but it bears repeating. In my 20s my girlfriend cheated on me. That girl is one of the reasons I went into my marriage with a clearly stated one-and-done policy. That same girl once told me she only let a guy go down on her not fuck her, and I asked her if she came. So any angry rants I may have come from a place of deep chumpiness and subsequent introspection

          • We all get the anger, Ian. Frankly, just thinking about MatchGirl’s last day shopping with you puts me from 0-60 on the anger scale in a nanosecond. Someone needs to invent a stronger word than “incredulous.”

            And a second bout of infidelity is bound to churn up an emotional volcano. I just hope you can get legally free of MG soon to close the wound. The scar, I’m afraid, is probably lifelong.

            • Oh Tempest, I hate that you had to ask and know about all the gory details. Im sure you hated that image in your head at the time, maybe not now, but I am glad I was spared the gory details for the most part. Fuckers

              • ChumpityCC–I have often wondered at my desire, nay, need to know details of my X’s sexual escapades. For one, nothing he told me could have been worse than the mindmovies in my imagination (the most horrifying stage after D-day). Knowing some details also moved the infidelity from the abstract (“an affair 8 years ago”) to the concrete, in all its ugliness, and allowed me to divorce him without regret.

                Lastly, the deception of infidelity is a power play like no other. Cheaters withhold love, respect, information from the chump to give themselves ascendancy. Finding out details, even with trickle truth, tips the balance of power more in favor of the chump. It gives us the advantage of saying, “I now know what you did. I now know what you are.” and the inference the cheater can draw is “I am morally superior to you because I did not harm you the same way.” That is why I support people seeking as much information as they need after D-day; some of us need it (though others find it harmful, and I respect that. The sexual details, and the details of intimacy that SphinxMoth details in a post below this are a LOT to digest).

            • Thanks, Tempest.

              I really do feel better overall. I am still nowhere near getting the divorce wrapped up, but I know without a doubt it’s because she is the worst. Somebody said it the other day: I wake up and some days she’s not the first thing on my mind. Thanks for your support.

  • I know you will not follow ChumpLady’s advice to leave. Here is How I know you will stay. 1. He cheated on you for six years – You Stayed and are having sex with him. 2. You believe he hates Jackie – – why would he hate Jackie? He was with her for six years and but for you finding out he would still be with her. He only says he hates Jackie because you hate Jackie – if he hates Jackie then why a Six Year Affair- he doesn’t hate her- he hates that he was caught. 3. “Lets keep this in perspective” – your perspective was that the debits were last year not this year- thus everything is okay and lets have sex. 4. Six year affair-six months out, you believe everything he says or want to believe everything he says, and you are awarding him with sex. 5. You don’t believe that you were disrespected, deceived, manipulated, for more than six years- and even if you do believe it- these were not dealbreakers for you- a Six Year affair was not a dealbreaker for you- Six Years of lies was not a dealbreaker to you, Six Years of putting your health at risk was not a dealbreaker to you. 6. No matter what anyone says here you will make excuses as to why you will stay – you have drinked the koolaid – and many do. 7. You did not kick him out- even when he told you to. 8. Six year affair and you Stayed. This is how I know you will Stay no matter what we say. But know this- he is a liar, coward, and a cheat- he will not leave, there is no reason for him to leave, he will not file for divorce, and he is thinking about Jackie whether he loves her or hates her- how could he not- he had a Six year affair with her at expensive hotels and expensive restaurants – and he loves himself more than you and more than her. If the Six Year Affair was not enough of a reason for you to leave – the slip up during sex is a minor slip up that sadly you will get over- if you have not already. Sadly you have convinced yourself that staying is be%er than leaving- sadly you made this decision six months ago. Sadly you will keep drinking the koolaid.

    • I completely disagree. But see your point. I’d like to suggest that she’s writing CL about her cheater and not about the slip up.

      She is beginning to realize he has taken so much from her and she’s had enough. It is dawning on LosingMyMind that she is beginning to lose hers because of all the lies and the six years of being taken advantage of and mistreated.

      Betrayal is a difficult thing to face. Divorce is a scary choice especially when you realize how much of your self respect you’ve lost because you were sure he was invested in you and the marriage only to be faced with the truth that he is not and never will be.

      Loyalty and hope are hard to overcome and kill. Cheaters work long and hard to accomplish it. Domitian takes many years and many lies to break a chump.

      • Good point neverwouldhaveimagined- maybe LosingMyMind is just now realizing that its time to leave.

      • Never
        I agree she knows what she should do, she can feel it but up until now the fear of leaving has been bigger than she has allowed her needs to be.
        I’m betting she has had a crappy childhood with at least one narc in it.
        She is beginning to sense that there may be a different way for her. Part of coming here is being open to others gently knocking some sense into you because they understand. They don’t judge, they don’t blame, they just share their experience so that you begin to see. And then you see that others did it and left and thrived and that thimble full of courage turns into an eggcup turns into a cup turns into a bowl turns into a fucking swimming pool of courage so that you finally do something for yourself.

        • Sometimes the chorus can influence the key singer.

          LosingMyMind–AGENCY. It’s what you haven’t had, but what you’re seeking by writing to CL. Trust me—you don’t want to have endured 6 years of an affair, wreckonciliation, and then he leaves you, do you? Once you start issuing consequences, even if it is nothing more than being colder to him, he will seek his prime attention from the satellite (Jackie).

          Pull up your pride, you know your battle plan. Leave his sorry ass.

          • It took me 9 years of his affair to finally leave and I did everything Asif said. I kept thinking it was my fault. I also kept coming back to CL and finally had enough and pulled up my big boy panties and got the fuck out!

        • That’s right. The rage and courage and feedback all magnify each other. This is your chance to say NOT ANYMORE, MOTHERFUCKER.

      • These letters we read here at CL are only the tip of the iceberg.
        These letters are written by chumps who still don’t get it. Or they would ask for a kick ass lawyer.
        My biggest regret is that the law does not punish infidelity. Society is not, we are on a downward path of “don’t judge”. Besides the cheated spouse, those kids are the biggest loosers of all time. But hey, don’t judge!

    • I can sense your frustration. It’s hard to watch people suffer but everyone has their own speed. Their own story.
      I found this harsh. I judge myself too harshly as it is. We chumps need reality but not blame and judgement. We already have too much of that.

        • Thanks for your comment Capricorn. Yes each person has their own speed – and it is frustrating – especially when from the outside looking in you can see the writing on the wall and you feel that persons pain and hopelessness and you want to shake them to wake up. Its like watching a horror movie and yelling at the screen “No don’t open the door – he is behind the door- run- get out of the house” and you know exactly how it is going to end.

          • ASLF
            That’s exactly it. You are right. I’m still trying to get out and just realising how stupid I was and how much I spackled. I think I’m still surprised at how hard it has been for me to accept that this man who I loved and trusted for 22 years didn’t love me at all and lived a double life very easily indeed thank you very much. So emotionally I am still a bit stuck even if I am now thinking straight.
            You guys saved me !!

            • Capricorn- the heart tells us one thing, but the brain knows better. As I tell my friends- if I were to give a friend advice I would tell her to leave, I would tell her he is an asshole, I would tell her don’t waste another tear on that asshole, that she deserves so much better, but its easier to give advice than to take your own advice because the heart says otherwise- and many of us want to follow the heart- sad but true.

              • Asif and Capricorn — the above is why I am trying to figure out how to give advice to the heart (of a newly-minted chump), advice that the heart will listen to.

              • He just clawed my face and told me to get the duck out. And would not give me the car keys
                I was reading chump advice and asked him did you say lies about me too
                So I am sitting on the street. The last thing he said was I was a chump and go

              • LosingMyMind–call the police. What he just did is abuse, and you will be best served if it goes on official record. Furthermore, if you don’t have your funds, clothes, car keys, etc., you can’t get far. Ask the police about getting into a domestic abuse shelter for the night.

              • Losing, please take pictures of the scratches and report him.

                Also, I’d recommend you read Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft, there are great strategies in there as your X might keep escalading!

                Please be safe!

              • I posted at the bottom of the page, but will post here too. Losingmymind, please get the police to document this and file what ever charges you need to file.

                Please be safe and stay in a shelter if you have to do that.

                Get a good lawyer! The shelter people may be able to help with some names.

    • I could not fault her for smoking hopium. That would make me a hypocrite. I kept beating a dead horse relationship for years. Only when I found CL did I understand I had a sociopath on my hands. I know she is fragile in her current state. So weren’t we all-it is so much easier to stay put (right or wrong) than to turn willingly headlong into the worst pain you will likely feel. Then the vacillating back and forth blah blah blah. That any of us made it thru the initial early days is a miracle. Easy for me to say when I’m meh to get the fuck out NOW. Not easy when you stand up, turn around, and face agony. Or you stay and “blank it out”. All I know is Tracy Schorn was my savior. And Cock Slobber too for keeping him busy while I grieved. I’m grateful at the very least she found CL and CN. It’s a step of clarity in a tsunami of mindfuck.

      • Ex.

        Yes yes yes. Nailed it perfectly.

        My 17 year old said I was having my own 27 Hours moment after that movie. (Spoiler alert!!)

        I had the choice – stay trapped under the boulder and die or cut off my own arm with a rusty penknife. Both not appealing.

        I’ve just started hacking off my own arm.

        • Perfect analogy. Your 17-year-old is quite perceptive. I personally have made it through the bone and am working on that last little bit of tendon and flesh.

        • I’m over here with the rusty blade hacking away too. It was lonely but now I can see others in other canyons also hacking away, bleeding, crying, screaming . . . but still alive. hurts like a mofo but I”m not dead yet and I’m halfway through the bone, which is the hardest part. The more I cut, though, the sharper the blade seems to get.

          And I’m starting to think about life without that arm and all the things I can do with one arm if I make it out of here. The trick is to not let fear stop me from cutting my arm off so I can get out of this canyon — must cut even when I don’t want to. Even when I’m tired. Just one little hack and then I can sleep and start again when I wake. Keep going, keep cutting. I’ve got this. I don’t want to die, I don’t want to die, I don’t want to die. . . . Keep cutting.

          • It is the perfect analogy and he is very perceptive (I would say he gets it from me but I am a chump of epic proportions).

            When he said that I was deciding to file or not sitting at our kitchen table.

            I filed first thing the next morning.

            • What you all need to know is that arm you are cutting off is an inoperative third arm that in fact was strangling your spirit. A dummy arm you won’t need. You’re going to walk away whole once it is detached. Hugs to you all, still suffering to claw your way free. You are mighty!

    • Why so harsh, Asif? Many of us have been there, done that. But eventually we wised up, and got out.

      The whole goal of CL is to help people wise up sooner, take the leap to a better life. Information and support, not telling people they’ll never change, won’t ever choose differently than they have in the past.

      It’s the cheater narcissists who don’t change. Chumps definitely can: Chump Nation is the proof!

      • Better to get the 2×4s early on KarenE instead of placating and wasting 6 more months or 6 more years. Reality is that many linger on for years, “complaining” of the wrongs done to us, smoking the hopium pipe, thinking we are so special and different that he will come around – and maybe he does and maybe he doesn’t- and many of us stay waiting for him to change. Many of us take months and years before we follow the advice of CL and CN- many when CL tells them to leave, when CN tells them to leave – they say they will leave, they say they are contacting the lawyer, they say that they are getting a divorce- but at the end of the day they don’t because they want to stay and wait for him to change. But why wait for him to change-the sooner we determine the reasons we are staying the sooner we can accept that we need to change – we need to recognize that this liar, user, and coward is not worth our time-until we change our perception- until LosingMyMind accepts that she must change- she is staying-its not harsh- its the truth-its LosingMyMind’s present truth. But maybe by bringing it to light LosingMyMind will change sooner rather than later and follow CL’s and CN’s advice and leave, but until then she is staying like so many have and will.

        • Yes, Asif, your post was very thought-provoking, and I thought actually kind. You were telling this poor soul the truth. It got me to thinking: I knew I should leave/kick his ass out, what made it finally possible? First thought, like quitting smoking, it took several times. But there was more —

    • You have permission to get angry. No, really; seriously, righteously, rain-hell-fire and brimstone ANGRY.

      How dare he enter into another sexual/emotional/long-term relationship outside of your marriage? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he put your life in danger? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he devote your finances on his whore? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being? How dare he lie to you? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he continually test the limits of your boundaries? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he gaslight you – fuck with your reality – to where you can’t tell right from wrong? Who the fuck DOES that to another human being?! How dare he violate YOU?


        • +1!!!!! The anger is what saved me and what has kept me no contact. No reminiscing about any bullshit “good times”…just have to remember the blatant disrespect and it keeps me moving up and on towards meh.

      • Only please be careful with the rage. I do not know what the balance is! We should feel the anger, yes. But I am now having lots of trouble with the effects of rage on my health. Mine has damaged my liver. Other people get high blood pressure.

        • It’s temporary, and probably a necessary phase towards complete disengagement from the cheater. I, too, had higher blood pressure both before & after D-day. Had my physical the other day–back to 105/60 (I’m two years out from D-day, 1.5 years from divorce).

          Forgive yourself for the anger; it will dissipate with time (or become more intellectual–“How dare he/she have treated me like that!” but without the emotional detonation).

        • RAGE is a completely normal response to such injustice and betrayal. Let it out! Keep it in and it will eat you alive.
          Of course, the wise approach to anger is to guide it towards something constructive: let that rage power you to get an unbelievable settlement, let that rage power you to one of your life goals: run a marathon, get a diploma.
          I know it’s easy to talk about it after the fact, but rage IS and CAN be a very good thing. And its normal!

          • Or you could be like me, who hasn’t got angry. Not really. It still freaks me out to this day (1 year+ post DDay). Rage and anger is totally normal in this situation. I feel like my response isn’t normal. Anger is about getting your power back, about asserting your boundaries. It’s a good thing. Me, on the other hand, DDay and the run up to it has weakened me. I tone down my lawyer’s angry language in their letters and they tell me not to be so soft. Honestly, you don’t want to be like me. I’m pretty much inviting my cheater to continue to walk all over me.

            Embrace the rage.

            • Otct, you are still waiting, but your righteous anger will come when you allow that. Think on your worth and how it was trampled. That wasn’t because you were unworthy, but because someone used you badly. Some chumps need a lot of time to process their injury. Some get there much more quickly. And some have to reach all the way down to their toenails to drag up the courage to see their pain. It’s a way to protect themselves, but not always best for their future. Examine just how pissed off you will allow yourself to be, and give that a try.

            • Off the crazy train, you are still dancing. You still want to be liked. You still hope.
              That’s why you have not reached anger.
              Get MAD, woman! So you can move on with your life.
              I’m sending you hugs. And trust that you are the utmost normal human being. Look at you: you got Off the crazy train 🙂

    • Asif, Thank God for someone willing to say it like it is, sometimes the best thing you can do for a chump in this degree of denial is grab them by the scruff of the neck, and yank them out of that deep river of denial to safety.
      “He had told me that she paid for all the hotels and they never went out. He was “shocked” by the charges and said he honestly didn’t remember them. There were a lot of expensive meals and hotels. Tried to tell me they were years ago, but dates were last November, December and this year”
      . Claims that’s how much he hated her, he blanked it out.”

      There are liars, there are pathological liars, and then there’s this ^^^^

      “I figure let’s keep this in perspective.” The fact that she’s not standing over his lifeless body is perspective enough
      ” We worked it out by 2 a.m. last night” The only thing they need to work out, is, will he leave under his own steam , or with her foot up his ass to help him along.

      ” and were having sex “. At this point I had to stop and pick pieces of flesh of my laptop because my head exploded.

      when he says, “This feels so good let’s do this all day Ja…” That asshole didn’t make a mistake, that’s an on-purpose. And if he can be that cruel, and she can still be that blind , I’m not sure that there’s much even CL can do, Still I hope she keeps coming and I really really hope she takes CL’s wise advice ASAP, because that hubby sounds pathological

  • Let Jackie and this whore mongering loser have each other. They certainly belong together. You can do better, if that’s what you want. Do not continue to “reconcile” with this lying creep.

  • You stay and you will be selling your soul. It will be a miserable, paranoid and anxious existence. A non-existence. A slow suicide.

    Then one day you won’t recognise yourself anymore. You will not remember the last time you laughed and smiled freely and without a care. You will have become so used to that tight knot in your stomach you can’t remember what it feels like to be truly relaxed. You will realise you are only half living – that it has become normal for you to drive around, walk around, shop, eat and live in a life that is anxiety provoking, triggering and sepia toned. Your senses will be dulled, things that used to bring you joy just don’t anymore and you live entirely in your head. Worrying. Chronic low-grade depression. Sometimes you may even consider suicide.

    Often you will find yourself in this horrible conflicted state of both loving and hating your H as he stands before you, but you won’t be quite sure anymore what it is you love, if it is in fact love, because it feels more like being bound to him by fear and nostalgia for what you thought you had. You will wait, and wait and wait to feel good again. But it won’t come. Occasionally, as you fade in to the shadows of who you once were, you will find your starving heart and soul are thrown enough of a bone from him that you feel grateful for the little bit of marrow in there. GRATEFUL that he acknowledged you somehow.

    ON the surface, and to others it will all seem ok, you will MAKE it seem ok because you are bound by hope and commitment, but 1000000 intangible little things you don’t understand yourself will be telling you something is off, the world isn’t safe anymore, that you are living with your assassin and it is only a matter of time before he decides to pull the trigger.

    Because he will, because he can, because he doesn’t care. He really doesn’t care about you one iota. People who care don’t do this to people they care about. It is a simple fact but one that is soooooo very hard to digest. But this person doesn’t love you, he’s in contempt of you and everything you describe shows that.

    It won’t get better. It can’t get better. How can it? Seriously?

    I speak from the heart and I speak from experience. We ALL do here. We’re not angry bitter misanthropes who just got the shitty end of the stick compared to all the successful reconcilers out there. We are the ones who tried reconciliation with everything our heart and souls had, and we learned the hard way that the truth, the reality is what sits in the archives of this blog. There is NO SUCH THING as reconciliation. Not without agreeing to sell your soul permanently to the devil.

    Please leave. Please, please leave. It WILL be hard but not as hard as the alternative because leaving has a pain that is FINITE. Staying has a pain that is INFINITE.

    We are all here for you. But please, please, please leave. x

    • Wow ZHUCHI, you nailed it perfectly. Eloquently and completely, exactly this. Thank you.

      …I am so glad to be out of that living hell.

    • This was my life. A slow suicide. All of this perfectly describes the hell of an abuser. This is why I love CL. My case wasn’t special. My pain wasn’t unique. I learned the ClusterFuck B Sociopath was not redeemable. This is a great post because LosingMyMind will read it and see herself in the words. She will see that there is hope for her sanity if she can muster the courage and strength to save herself.

      • This is an eloquent and heart wrenching comment. So honest and raw, it hurts.

        Something I want to share very quickly.

        I was contacted by on of my XHs OW, by email. She told me a lot of things. It was a 30 some odd page “history” of everything she and my husband had done, the things that she knew, the conversations that she’d had—it made my skin crawl with how intimate she was entwined in my life without my knowledge.

        The SEX doesn’t matter, if you’re thinking about the act. The consequences of sex, perhaps an STD, yes. But the sex itself? I don’t care. We each have had lovers in the past. No one is as pure as the driven snow here.

        What got under my skin was the INTIMACY. The daily minor details that she shared with him, the things he told her, the things in MY LIFE that she knew.

        And then she said something that galvanized my spine to the point that I will never, ever, EVER allow this man or any other take advantage of me again…

        “If you think that you’ve won because he left me and he’s back with you, you’re wrong. I won. You have to sit with him in the house and know what he did. You have to have sex with him and know that he had sex with me for 2 years, saying the same things to me that he says to you. He told me that he had sex with you, and it made him sick to his stomach. He told me that the only reason he stays is because he is waiting for your daughter to turn 18 and for me to wait for him. You are actually doing me a favor by taking him back, and I can go ahead and find someone that I don’t have to look at and know what they did to me and I still let them stay with me.”

        She was laughing at me. And then I looked around…other people, as “supportive” as they may have seemed, were also judging and smirking behind their backs…how stupid SphinxMoth is, how miserable of a human being and zero self esteem she must have to take that bastard back after he humiliated her so completely.

        They laugh at us for reconciliation. All of them. The OW/OM, their apologists, and the Cheaters. I will NOT be laughed at for being a kind, loving, generous and faithful person. If I have to be alone, then fine. But I will not be taunted and humiliated for being GOOD.

        To the OP—I am actually seeing the “core” of your question (i’m trained that way. medical questions are set up like yours). What you’re actually asking is permission to keep trying to forgive this man.

        Please don’t. Your whole letter is an exercise in untangling the Skein of Fuckupedness. You’re grasping onto any crumb he may throw to you.

        You “figured it out” by midnight and then had sex? I’m sorry….I’m not going to beat you up here, but 4-5 hours of “discussion” of a six year affair and thousands of dollars’ worth of charges…doesn’t “work it out”. That takes…..YEARS. And a therapist. And a separation.

        Sex is not love. Believe me, I am guiltier than most of this misconception. You’re using physical closeness and mixing it up with him being intimate with you. He’s not. He’s subduing you. He knows that is your hot button.

        Please leave.

        • “If you think that you’ve won because he left me and he’s back with you, you’re wrong. I won. You have to sit with him in the house and know what he did. You have to have sex with him and know that he had sex with me for 2 years, saying the same things to me that he says to you. He told me that he had sex with you, and it made him sick to his stomach.”

          Yeah, well he said the same things to her. And probably to you. That, poor sausage, he couldn’t stand the OW! For two years she had to know that he was with you, having sex with you. (Yeah, made him so sick he went back for more.)

          Her disgust at you is disgust at herself. Total projection. Only difference is, she deserves what she got because KNEW. She went in to the relationship knowing together they were cheating on innocents.

          We need to change the narrative that only “good” people reconcile and forgive.

          Ignore her hateful words.

        • Sphinx. So much pain and so much truth in your post. Makes me want to cry. We will not be taunted and humiliated for being good. I’m not going to change the fact that I care about people, I’m just changing who I care about.

        • SphinxMoth, I received a similar email from OW, who also happened to be my good friend. It left me crushed and the intimacy bothered me the most.

          CL, thank you for putting into words what I’ve been trying hard to tell myself and believe.. “Her disgust at you is disgust at herself. Total projection. Only difference is, she deserves what she got because she KNEW. She went in to the relationship knowing together they were cheating on innocents.”

        • Oh, SphinxMoth–I can’t breathe after your post. That is exactly the contempt that our Xs and OW/OMs have for us. I always knew it, but that letter from your OW brings the point home with startling clarity and detail. I am so sorry you suffered that pain, but glad it was the impetus to escape the marriage and not look back.

          Every time I start to feel a little soft, and wonder if my X was really that bad, I remember that when gradwhore issued her ultimatum, and my then-husband called me for a divorce by phone (after 16 years & 2 kids together), he to hear the conversation. I hate him with every fiber of my being for that.

          Cheaters are not content to merely betray us; they want to gut us, too. Thank heavens we have each other to prevent that.

          • Thank you Tempest and CL…and all. It took a long time not to believe her. Seriously. I’ve written only a short blurb or two about my upbringing, where the people who were SUPPOSED to love me, didn’t. Or wouldn’t. Or Couldn’t.

            That left me wide open for his betrayal, and her attack. I believed for a long time that she was right. That I was just pathetic and needy and as pathological as she said.

            And honestly, I DID do her a favor by taking him back. She got to toddle off while I dealt with that fuckwit and the damage he caused our family. I should have booted him the microsecond I found out. I should NEVER have let the situation simmer until I had the pleasure (gag) of receiving a letter like the one I got from this OW.

            I did, however, send her a Thank You. I told her that she did something for me that no one, not even Cheater could do—she cleared my mind of any doubt that I was doing the right thing by my family in divorcing that asshole.

            Thank you for the kind words. Some days are worse than others, even at Meh. Tomorrow is my birthday. I just want to get through the day without some weird email from him telling me how he’s hoping I have a great day. Stupid, but that actually still hurts. He ruined every other birthday for me when we were married.

            • Sphinx.

              You are amazing. Such piercing honesty to share that here. For me knowing the details of the sex he had with his 3 others was bad. The intimacy worse yes, cuddling on sofa watching tv, cooking together – the worst- just holding hands with them as they wandered around. It is a very special pain that infidelity inflicts. I had never felt anything like it.
              I needed to hear all the details though (I had spreadsheets and pages of notes) to give me enough pain to power through to filing for divorce.
              Words fail me to describe what these people put you through.
              It’s a stark reminder of the amount of cruelty these people can and do inflict on people who loved them.
              I hope you have a wonderful and lovely birthday

              • I never met the OW, but she came to my secure undisclosed location after I left (and she moved into my house and my life). She came with the ex to break in and steal my stuff. Who leaked where I was I will never know. And I was home, so they didn’t have a chance of breaking in, but I busted the ex while he tried.

                Who does that? People with no character who are under the spell of sparkly narcs. I can only hope she saw hers coming when he got bored not so long later.

              • You can do it, Capricorn. It’s so much better on your own, knowing your own reality. I have a lot of support that crazy enough, doesn’t come from blood relatives. Friendship, loyalty and love come from all sorts of people, if you recognize it and let it in.

                I let him and the affairs taint everything. I saw the entire world through that lens, that everyone is dishonest and turned my head from any possible good. That gave them power. Power that they don’t deserve and should never have.

                The intimacy issue is something you really need to not let get out of control. The information that the OW gave to me still comes back when I dwell too long on an idea, but it helped that I cleansed my surroundings of anything that reminded me directly.

                Oh, and asking Fuckwit anything? Don’t do it. Just don’t. I learned the hard way. They love the thrill of holding that information over your head. They know how much you want to know. It’s exciting to them. Sometimes to lie and sometimes to tell the truth. And guess what. You will never, ever know which one you’re getting. Stay away from asking details if you can resist. For your own mental health.

                Thank you for the birthday wishes. Stay strong, Cap. Stick with CN. You’ll get there.

          • Tempest I just re-read your reply.

            He let her stay in the room? That really just knocked me back. That’s….I don’t know a word for that. I can only say I am so sorry he did that, and that he made sure you knew about it.

            {{{Tempest}}} Can I hate him for you as well? My reaction here is a bit visceral. I am frowning and thinking dark thoughts….the cruelty of some is simply gratuitous.

            That’s the mind boggling part of it, that there was no reason you should even have known. The utter disrespect and contempt. Yes, your words are so precise. Although I thoroughly enjoy reading your responses here, I hate what’s brought us together.

            I’m glad you’re on the other side of that marriage.

            I was thinking about a passage that I’d read years ago from one of my favorite series (don’t laugh!)–Dune. Where Paul Atreides has passed the test of the pain box, and the Reverend Mother Gaius says,

            “You’ve heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There’s an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, feigning death, that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind.”

            My point here being–that I felt for a long time that I had simply “chewed off my leg” to escape the trap that was my marriage. I didn’t care that the trapper (my ex) was free to go on to harm others. Now, I feel differently.

            That’s in large part due to CL and CN. I read here every single day. I don’t post a lot, but I read. I have referred so, so many others to this site. I have taken the advice here and internalized it. It’s made me strong. Hopefully, anything I’ve said to anyone, has helped in a small way. Maybe made someone less afraid or whatever.

            In the end, maybe this site can help remove some of those threats to our kind, if that makes sense? That’s a human thing, that we help each other recognize and remove threats to our safety and well being. Does that make sense?

            All done waxing philosophical. 🙂

            • SphinxMoth–your posts are always helpful, and what you revealed today is a truth that anyone who is fence sitting needs to know–our cheaters and their APs had ultimate contempt for us. Their loyalty to us was feigned, and used as a subterfuge to further disembowel us. Even 2 years out, your post helped me solidify what I knew all along–cheaters are irredeemable, conscienceless, and predatory to their core. Thank you for sharing it, as I’m sure it must have been painful to relive that letter.

              As for Hannibal telling me gradwhore was in the room? Hell, no–he attempted to reconcile with lies & more lies, but thankfully I carried 5 key Chumplady posts around with me 24/7 (including the Naugahyde Remorse post) to battle his continued gaslighting.

              In fact, Hannibal never admitted that he had taken gradwhore to Mexico; a friend told me 2 days before my divorce was final. I then thought back to the odd flatness of his voice 8 years prior when he had asked for the divorce and put 2 and 2 together. The evening of the divorce was the last night I spoke to him, and I asked him if she had been in the room that day, and to “tell me the truth!” Long pause and then, “No.” Some of my last words to him were “MF asshole, POS! I hate you! Why can’t you just die?” And I meant them. If I ever get sentimental about my marriage, all I need to do is remember that he let her stay in the room and voila! No more sentimentality.

              • My first XW delighted in describing the physique of one of her A Ps to me. These folks are monsters.

            • Oh, and Happy Birthday tomorrow, Sphinx Moth! I will raise a glass of bubbly in your honor!

            • P.P.S. Count me in on the cheater-extermination program. All I can picture is Elmer Fudd in his plaid cap with a gun, “Be vewy quiet. We’we hunting cheatews.”

              • Don’t forget, you have one very pissed off sharpshooter on TeamChump. I will add the hitch to my vehicle so we can tow the wood chipper.

        • My daughter-in-law met the OW once when she was trailing along with my husband and was immediately struck with how familiar she seemed to be with our family. She talked like she was an integral part of our kids’ lives. My DIL asked my son if this was true and he told her, “No, OW was never really around.” My DIL told me this after our divorce was final. I understand what you mean about the emotional intimacy you were craving being given to someone else. It sucks.

          • Yes, the emotional intimacy. For our entire marriage (20 years) I just wanted to spend time with my husband. He was always “working.” Always had time for the ho-workers and getting emotionally intimate with them. But didn’t have time for me. He broke me down day after day until I gave up the last few years and stopped bothering him for his time. And he’s convinced himself that it’s “a part of his DNA” that he needs to have all these “healthy female friends.” I don’t know of ANY women who are okay with this, but for some reason I needed to be okay with it and I wasn’t supposed to be jealous of all the time he spent “working” and not jealous of his “friends.” It’s NOT normal. No one will ever treat me like this again!

        • Sorry just recently started delving into these posts and comments, yours struck a nerve with me for a few reasons.

          1. I’m envious you got a full confession from someone, I literally spent thousands of dollars on two different PIs getting proof of what I KNEW was going on. My ex would literally have her men park their car at a public place (store/dept store/etc) she would then drive to them pick them up (with my baby present) they would lay down in the of the car until they were safely tucked away in her garage. I’ve two seperate guys tell me this story (and they dont know each other). It took forever to finally get some of the truth..I still dont have it all. So i’m super envious of having someone come clean.

          2. The intimacy these people have in our lives is also what struck me profoundly. It’s a major kick in the nuts to hear them reveal how much they know about you isnt it? I had to hear several guys tell me that my baby would call them daddy, which my ex would then laugh about it. I had to hang up on these guys (they finally came clean after suprise suprise she dumped them too) when they told me that.

          I must have read a thousand comments today, so sorry for bringing this post back from the dead with my new comment, but felt compelled to reply and share a little.

    • I copied this also. It’s just beautiful.

      I lived it and you put into words why I’m okay now and don’t wish for anything different.

      Thank you.

    • Very good description of what it is like living with a NPD,even without the infidelity. The egregious,obvious abuse is more apparent. The day in,day out ambient stuff is relentless yet more subtle.
      This shot will send one to an early grave.

  • LosingMyMind, please listen to CL. The fact that you wrote a letter seeking a second opinion about this joker shows that you are not thinking clearly. I am not being judgy here; I just recognize the problem having done the same thing in in my own marriage.

    Get yourself to a lawyer.

    You deserve better than this person. You are worth more than this person. You will have a happier life without this person.

    And, if he complains again about “blanking out,” tell him to go see a neurologist. He’s either a liar or a liar suffering from a brain tumor.

    • Ha! At one point I wondered if my STBX had a brain tumor, or a stroke. Because I couldn’t/wouldn’t wrap my head around the fact that he could be so awful all on his own. There had to be a reason.
      And of course there is: he sucks.

      • Ah so did I! I really thought he had an adverse reaction in surgery a mini stroke …. surely he isn’t that much of a soulless, selfish hollow man? The answer of course was yes, yes he is.

        • Haha, add me to that list. I always said that there had to be something to trigger this because this wasn’t the person I married!

        • Me too!! He acted like he couldn’t remember any details. He figured he must have blocked them because he was in such misery for those NINE years of his affair. Poor baby!

          And one incident that I almost forgot was before I knew about his cheating. He is an alcoholic and I found a receipt for wine. When I asked him about it, he claimed that he must have bought a bottle of wine and drank it but blacked out and thus didn’t even recall doing it. I was so naive (and so inexperienced with alcohol) that I actually believed him. He purchased a breathalizer machine to make sure he didn’t so that again, accidently, and then drive. Just typing this makes me feel like a complete idiot. All the lies I believed for so many years! I just couldn’t believe anyone could lie like that.

          I don’t know if any of you remember the old show Knots Landing. One of my favorite episodes has a monologue by Karen where she said something like this: “I don’t want to see the world through rose colored glasses. I want the world TO BE rose colored.” That line stuck with me all these years, and I think it’s because that is who I am too. It breaks my heart that there is evil in this world, and that so many of us actually lived with the evil sleeping next to us.

      • I hate to admit it to you all, but deep inside, after nearly 24 months since Dday #1, I STILL think there is something “organic” going on with douche: my latest “theory” is that he has early-onset dementia that was exacerbated by extreme stress, bad character, low self esteem, my success, his jealousy, drug use. . . . bla bla bla

        But, really, “who cares?!” He was a serial cheater, he got caught by our kids, he lied and lied and lied, he devalued and abandoned all of us, then blamed us, gaslit, raged at us. It all arrives at the same conclusion: HE SUCKS

        I snap my wrist every time I have “untangling the skein” thoughts. That track is worn smooth in my brain but leads only to HE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I tell myself: “Self, do not waste another second of your precious life on this.” Then I try to go on.

        • Yes. It doesn’t matter why they do it, but that they do it.
          I let go of asking why.
          Everyone should.

  • The holidays are coming…..
    Put a bow on your cheater with a tag reading “To Jackie….”
    Then give yourself the gift of a new life free of narccicists, gaslighting, lies and that constant unsettling feeling.

    • Love this AllOutofKibble! 😀

      …satan’s tag would have had to have been the size of a legal pad to hold all the ow’s names 🙂 LMAO! Love the visual!

    • Love this!!!! Yep, put a tight, very tight bow around his neck and drop kick his ass out! Ohhhhh, to be a fly on the wall!

  • I can tell you what happens if you don’t leave, because I didn’t kick him out for good for 3 years.

    There might be some lame apology. A gift or flowers. But every time he touches you, you will remember that syllable, or the dinners, or the hotels. Because CL is right – it isn’t over. That affair may have gone deeper underground or he may be just lining up the next one. And you know that. It is the real reason you wrote your letter – not because of the utterance of a syllable.
    Trust your gut. Even though it sucks, THIS IS WHO HE IS. The things he has admitted to are the tip of a huge, disgusting iceberg.
    Every Chump has to find their own way. Let the truth telling of Chump Lady and the collective experiences of Chump Nation help you.

  • The truth of the matter, Losing, is that once someone cheats on you The Damage is Done. It can never be undone, made right, forgotten, etc. Your marriage will never be better, renewed, happier, whatever else those who promote reconciliation tell you. Never.

    Make your new motto One and Done. That’s how many times anyone gets to lie to you, cheat on you, treat you bad. One and Done. You won’t regret it.

    • Losing, listen to CN. Your marriage is NEVER EVER THE SAME AFYER AN AFFAIR. You will never be the same, trust me. We have all learnt the hard way.

      I wanted to do counseling (MC/IC) bit it doesn’t really work, you know why, because nobody can tell you how you feel. Only you know how you feel and that is why you wore to CL.

      You want peace of mind, LEAVE. You want happiness, LEAVE. You want to be free from STI’s, leave. A six year affair and you stayed??

      Lady you bed to leave his sorry ass. You can not still be crying about this, a whole six years plus?? No lady you need to leave…

      I always thought my STBXH had amnesia of some sort but it’s not, it’s cluster B personalities. He crazy as hell, he cheated, gaslit me, lied and would pretend all is well. We still live in the same house and I hate it, still in the process of finalizing things.

      Leave. He doesn’t love you and he doesn’t care about you. The fact that he hasn’t left you is because he knows Jackie isn’t good enough to wife. Walk away… Let him have Jackie, let her deal with the turd. Move on. We still living together but I’ve moved on. I’m ending an 8 Month marriage because the signs were there before marriage and I’ve decided enough is enough.

  • My ex loved to talk about how much he “hated” the other woman. It gave him something to latch onto that we could band together to despise in complete unity. She was such a clueless moron with no boundaries! Yes, that’s the problem here, not the year long affair, not his refusal to admit something was going on! It’s that evil interloper that we must all recognize as the true root of all evil.
    Fuck that shit. Anything that helps my ex husband paint himself as a victim of bad circumstances is ridiculous. The other woman is now his full time problem- and they’re both writing awful songs about each other and posting them online like musical crimes against humanity.

    Anyway, get out of there. See a lawyer. Six years is not a slip up, it’s a purposeful vile deception that gives you nothing to work with.

    • Ugh, “musical crimes against humanity”

      This made me laugh so much Thank you!!!!

      • Not a problem- I wish I could post their weird talentless one-up-man ship musical feud. The caterwauling and lack of actual ability has them just standing around in the videos whining off key insults at each other.
        It must suck to get exactly what you want and then be like “wait, no”

    • Yes, my ex-cheater liked to talk about the OW…who happened to also be his ex fiancée. According to him this woman had “broken up with him years prior to our meeting because she could not get her life together”. She had moved out of his house because “she was bat shit crazy”. She apparently never really left the relationship though, because even after I moved in they talked every day (he traveled a lot) and I had no idea. She danced and I lived in HELL with SATAN himself. He told me all sorts of vile things about her while abusing me, stealing from me, and cheating on me. I was terrified that I was going to be like her (and he liked to remind me, “that is something OW would do”), so everything he said about her I did the opposite. I didn’t snoop, I tried not to be insecure, I gave him money (lots and lots of money), I gave up my bad friends, I stopped talking to my family because although I couldn’t put my finger on what was going on I knew I wasn’t safe and I knew something was wrong (I thought it was me, it wasn’t) and I didn’t want them to think I was losing my mind (I was). I DANCED for him and DENIED the screaming voice in the back of my head that was saying, “It’s not you!” I believed him when he said he loved me and that he was trying to help me. When D-day came and I found out that he had been with her (and others) the entire time we lived together and she knew I was living there. I called her. I repeated a few things that he had told me about her. Her response was, “It’s all in your head.” Which, to be fair, it was all in my head. Exactly where the cheater had placed it while gas lighting me for years. I haven’t been out long enough to completely have my bearings back, but I know this: I truly feel sorry for her. Not in an angry way, but in an OMG, she has been gas lighted for far longer than I was. She actually got up the courage to leave at one point. She moved out and left the state, but she came back, because the abuser “needed her”. The physical abuse, the sexual abuse, the financial abuse, the cheating, the lying…none of it compares to the mindfuckery. My body is healed, financially I’ll figure it out, but my soul, what he did to my soul is a travesty. I still find myself having revelations (like, “oh shit, how did I not see that”). I have trouble trusting myself, because I didn’t listen to the truth that my body and soul were telling me as I was slowly dying at the hands of the abuser. I am seeing a great counselor, the few REAL friends I have left are helping me walk through this, and I read Chump Lady because it reminds me that I’m not alone (people actually survive this shit), that I’m not crazy, and that there is hope. No Contact (and a restraining order) saved my life and I had to stop thinking about the OW in terms of being the enemy because that was not a healthy road for me, in a way blaming her was like blaming myself. As much as I wanted to hate the OW, I have first hand knowledge of what he does. Yes she knew I was living there and she could have walked away or found a way to tell me, but maybe she wasn’t strong enough. Maybe she couldn’t hear the truth over his lies either. I can’t say what her truth is, but I’m working on figuring out mine and mine alone and I pray that one day I will find “Meh”.

  • CL gives great advice! I “asserted reality to a fuckwit” and confronted. How much more wise and calculating to plan your exit. Winning. Then you are more in control and do not fear your new life and going it. alone so much. I kicked him out before I read the book Leave a Cheater Gain a life. I followed the rest of the advice though – lawyer, therapist, etc. I wish my husband had been faithful, but since he was not, I am happy to be living a cheater free life. Now he is my X and I have my soul back.

  • If you stay he will have even less respect for you than he already does. And even worse – now he knows you will stay with him no matter what or who he does. There is nothing to forgive here.

    • He will have less respect for you than he does now. Yes to this. Read the forums and you will find people whose X’s brought the OW into their homes, around their kids while still married. They just kept piling on the humiliation and enjoying it. Do yourself a favor and leave as soon as you can.

      • Amen. Exactly what mine did. And I needed to be okay with it because he “needed” her in his life to be able to deal with me and how “emotional” I was. By that point in the marriage, I was so beaten down by the devaluing and emotional abuse (on top of a screwed up childhood), that I took it for close to 2 years. Thank God I finally found my way out of the hell I was living.

      • I had a friend that had her husband bring over a co-worker to cook them dinner in wife’s kitchen. I must have had the look of utter horror at this because the subject was changed by her husband lightening fast, like it never happened. I told my friend that I would have taken that women by the arm and led her to the door and shoved her (gently) down the front steps.

        If x ever brought someone over I would be writing you from a cozy prison cell. But not to worry, I am a chump through and through, because I can attest that these f*ing disordered asswipes will make you conform to things that, if you were in your sane mind, you would never agree to. Gaslighting and blameshifting are real.

  • Losing, the fact that you know about a 6 year affair and have other evidence of what’s gone on (and how your husband still acts) – just know that this is just the tip of the iceberg. We never know everything about our spouse’s affairs – we can’t, and we never will. You’ll never know the full story, so there’s plenty that has been going on that’s even worse than what you’ve experienced. Whatever is the worst case scenario you can think up regarding your husband – that’s closer to the truth than anything you know now. Quit giving him the benefit of the doubt, he doesn’t deserve it.

    It sounds from your letter like you’re perilously close to just accepting disrespect as a lifestyle. Please don’t. Please don’t give up on yourself to put up with this abuse for the rest of your life. Because that’s what it is, it’s abuse.

    I used to give my spouse the benefit of the doubt even though my gut was screaming otherwise. All I did was flush years of my life down the toilet. I’m almost done with her though. It’s like being at the bottom of the pool and looking up at the surface. I’m almost to the top to fresh air……..and I’ll get there soon! It’s time for you to start swimming towards the light too.

    • Blindside

      That’s so true. As bad as it seems it is only the tip of the iceberg. It can and does get worse. Much worse. So leave. You have enough to go on already.

  • Thanks for the remarkable support. You have all assessed the situation brilliantly and I appreciate the help.

    To explain my chumpiness – some background info: husband claimed for the last 2-3 years of the affair he was trying to get rid of Jackie. she used his love for me and threatened tell me if he did not do as she asked. After the initial meetings he never saw her then did drugs and alcohol and started seeing her again – descended into a dark hell. He weeps and says he is a coward and can never forgive himself. Loves me and the kids, we’re all he has. He has stopped drugs and drinking and says he is being honest. Just can’t confront what he did and the details are too horrible. Begs me to let him prove he can be the good man he once was.

    Update – The ‘ja’ thing has been swept aside as horrific and unexplainable .

    Yesterday husband told me he called a lawyer and says he is leaving as soon as he hears back. Reason: too humiliated, the family has no respect for him. He fears he will become violent and hurt me.

    Am I a runner-up for the chump-of-the-day bouquet?


      He’s doing these things because he wants to be pitied. He’s creating an image of himself that will put him in a sympathetic light to others when you actually follow through and dump him.

      Above all else, you need to be strong and hold firm to what you know is the right thing to do. Do not let him manipulate you any further.

      • This from a not so long ago struggling early-days man chump. He did it!! UX-World great post

    • Dear Losing,
      PLEASE do not count on him actually seeing an attorney! You need to get your own ASAP. He’s trying to scare you into begging him to stay. Everything you put in that post screams of his inability to accept responsibility. It was Jackie, she MADE him have an affair for 6 years. Expensive hotels and restaurants? Not my fault I spent family funds on that ’cause I can’t remember. It was alcohol. It was drugs. It was HIS FAMILY (meaning YOU) having no respect for him. Seriously? Why the fuck would you respect a man who cheated on you for SIX FUCKING YEARS??? Yes, I’m yelling on purpose. He’s not being honest – he’s being caught. Big difference. And now that’s he’s caught he continues to blameshift. There is no hope. There is nothing for you to work with. Unless you want the rest of your married life to look exactly like it looks right now, get out. Please save yourself.

      • Beth.

        Great advice. Great understanding.
        Losing – please listen and hear what Beth says. He’s caught and now it all begins to get crazier. Hire a lawyer and file. Run.

    • Where are you getting advice on how to deal with his sexual abuse because of his alcoholism? AA?

    • I would be super concerned about him saying he may become violent and hurt you. Please take steps to protect yourself.

      • I agree that it is important to be very careful, but my fuckwit would do this ever time I called him out on his bad behavior. It can be just a very aggressive manipulation technique.

        In his case, he would threaten to kill himself (not hurt me), but that got us talking about that and not the fact that he was fucking his whore. In hindsight I should have just called for psych hold and left him. My counselor advised me when I was preparing to file for divorce that calls to doctors (i.e. if I called his counselor) are confidential, but calls to 911/Police are not.

        Certainly be aware that he could become violent, I had a plan and place to stay for when I served him with divorce papers (didn’t need it), but it’s more likely to be a last ditch manipulation technique.

        I don’t know what the fuck is wrong with these people that they can’t seem to just accept consequences and move on without basically creating a nuclear wasteland in their wake. Fuckwits.

    • Guarantee Jackie is still in picture. Didn’t CL say to prepare yourself for the pity channel? There you go. Pity channel. Um, of course “ja” is swept under carpet. He will rage if you bring it up again right? “ja ja ja jive talker” from the Bee Gees comes to mind. This is the mindfuck you will be suffering until you can get away from him and go no contact. It’s hard but necessary to save your life.

    • Please do not wait for him and his lawyer.

      Get your own lawyer TODAY.

      File first and include IMMEDIATE CHILD SUPPORT.

      Then, get a blood test – sorry – but you must.

      The next 6-12 months will suck and hurt more than you can imagine. But the time is finite. You will get to the other side of this.

      Take back your life and your power… don’t wait another second for him. If not for you, don’t your children deserve better?

      We’ve all been there – we know it isn’t easy. We’re not supporting you to do anything we haven’t already done… and survived. We are here for you because we are you. You’re so much stronger than you know because you have already survived the hell of being married to a sociopath.

      You’ve got this.

      Rock on Chump Nation

    • Losing,

      I’m still stuck on his argument that those receipts can’t be accurate because his fuckbuddy always paid for the hotels and meals. Really? And that makes a difference how? What you’ve been experiencing is a classic “moving of the goalposts.” His problem isn’t that he fucked around on you for SIX YEARS. It’s that you caught him red handed. And now you can’t understand how much he didn’t want to fuck around on you for SIX YEARS while he fucked around on you for SIX YEARS. Poor sad sausage. So he calls a lawyer to convince you to up your game to keep his fuckwit ass in cake and soothe his troubled soul. Oh, and you should fall for that because he “says he is being honest.”

      What your husband wants is a license to continue doing what he’s been doing. Unless that’s fine with you, you should go shopping for a lawyer of your own, and soon. Don’t wait until the bank account has been emptied. Hey, maybe a protection order is in order. The man has said he might get violent and hurt you if you don’t go along with his program. Good luck to you!!

    • LosingMyMind, he’s asking for pity and forgiveness but he makes nothing but excuses. He has threatened you with violence, in his mind you are to blame for how he feels, he has to leave because you might force him to hurt you. Think about it. Please take that threat seriously. Many abusers will use manipulation that is non-violent if they have fears of consequences. However, when the psychological manipulations fail, they can escalate to physical violence. When exasshole started talking suicide I was unaware this is a standard tactic of abusers. When he went through rage and crying jags to shut me down I was unaware this is a standard tactic of abusers. I nearly lost my life when he brought the gun in, don’t be me. Keep a journal from now on if you aren’t already. Get a damn lawyer ASAP. Be careful, pay attention, consider an escape plan. Jedi hugs!

      • Yep. Match Girl used suicide threats as a ramp-up to her death threats. Take them at their word. Get out.

    • LosingMyMind–count me as very worried. Any person who can conduct a 6 year affair while pretending to be a family man is a SOCIOPATH–no conscience, no empathy.

      He just warned you he could get violent–that is frightening. Abusive men/women (and your now-H is one) ramp up the crazy as they think they are being abandoned. Right now, he’s not convinced that you will leave him, so you are safe. But you know you need to file for divorce, and make sure he is out of the house. Please call a domestic abuse shelter now to get tips on what to do–get important documents and some cash out of the house; have a ‘secret’ contact in your phone for the domestic abuse help number and another for the police department.

      Your husband has put himself back in control by leaving himself. As soon as he loses control, he will try to put himself back in control, using violence if necessary. You are one step ahead of others in your position, because he has warned you. Hugs!

    • What concerns me here is that he “fears he will become violent.” The disordered are great at double lives, dishonesty, questionable actions, but you should know that during discard they are aware that cake is no longer there and they are lining up their futures, not yours. You are the enemy, and they will do things that you will not believe, including fucking with your finances…. Ex did this for two years before the Dday, the big ILYBINILWY speech, and his “request” for a divorce, and then continued to intimidate me during the two years it took us to divorce. Looking back though if I had challenged him any more I don’t know where I’d be. No contact saved me. As it was I discovered my old car had been tampered with and discovered an old HIV test in his desk drawer. My point, just be careful. These people are NOT like us.

      • So true, Drew, these people are not like us. They are evil personified. Never, but never underestimate the damage they can do, especially in a moment of complacency. When you’ve pushed their back up against the wall, they stealthily wait to inflict maximum carnage. Just when you breathe a sigh of relief that life seems to be getting better – BOOM. Sucker punch, either real or virtual. Watch yourself LosingMyMind – you have a psycopath for a partner. He “fears he will become violent” – oh yes, the threat is very real.

    • He tells you what is coming next: violence. Please hire a lawyer and exit the scene asap.
      This guy has no respect for you. The more he lies and the more you believe him, the less he respects you.
      Don’t trust anything he says. Jackie was after him? Why all cheater’s stories are like that? Because they lie! Were you after him as well? It boosts his ego!
      Don’t think for a second he is saying nice things about you. Why is Jackie having an affair with a married guy? Because he lies to her too, lies about you!
      Start telling your family and friends what is going on. Their version of the “truth” might be different than reality, depending what he told them. Go ahead and fix that!

    • The best thing is when the cheater leaves on their own. What a gift! Getting rid of a cheater is much harder.

    • Fuck,this guy is a worm/weasel par excellance. Run from this pathetic NPD.
      Have you called the cops yet? You have kids to consider,and yourself ,too. This guy is a powder keg.

  • Sending you hugs my friend, because all of us have been where you are now. There are two things to consider. First, that there is no guarantee that he will stick it out with you no matter what you decide to do. If “Jackie” offers him a better deal than you can, believe me Honey, he will be gone in a heartbeat. Second, don’t be so sure he isn’t already hiding funds and assets to screw you over if you or he should decide to leave.

    He is and has been abusing you in many ways for years. Financial abuse is just another one of their little tricks to maintain control. Oh, they love control. He can tell himself how awesome he is that he can treat you so badly and you will not only take it, but believe all his lies and still have sex with him.

    I don’t believe you want to spend the rest of your life being a doormat for him to wipe his feet on. Otherwise you would not have written to Chump Lady.

    He sounds vicious. His lack of concern for you, for your feelings, for your welfare is glaring. That is not love. He doesn’t love you. He is using you. Right now you are useful to him.

    You have two choices. You can sit and whine and put up with his bullshit. Or you can get busy laying the groundwork to protect yourself and your children. Your choice. You will be able to respect yourself if you begin to prepare.

    First of all, no more confrontation. It doesn’t work. He doesn’t care about how you feel. It only makes him go further underground. Second, make copies of all your important papers and store them somewhere secure. That means tax records, financial records, birth certificates, loan paperwork, deeds, passports etc. Second, anything you especially love , family treasures, photos, again squirrel them away and store them with a safe friend or in a rented storage space. Document all the paperwork detailing his infidelity, like those receipts. You can get that money back in court. It’s called dissipation of marital assets. Document everything he says and keep it in a safe place. Have a timeline. It will help you in the long run. Third, start saving money, in a separate account. And fourth, get yourself a pitbull lawyer, hopefully one who has experience with high conflict divorces with personality disordered people.

    Keep coming here, posting here. We have been down the road you are on. We can help you understand what is really happening, what he is really saying and doing when he hands you his bullshit lines. This is the place that will help you figure out what is real. Here you will find the truth gathered through many collective years of pain and suffering. And here is where you will learn that you are stronger than you believe you could ever be. We are here for you.

    • Thx Tessie. I was just about to write a similar post making every single one of your points, from “you are of use to him” to go stealth and secretly get your shit together by doing all of these things step-by-step. Since you made all of these points very eloquently, I will simply implore LosingMyMind — and anyone else reading this who is in a similar situation, to heed Tessie’s advice.
      It’s tempting to lash out at the cheater and to tell them what you know and threaten to leave. I think in some ways it’s a form of trying to control the cheater. “If he/she knows I’m leaving he/she will be sorry and change.” It might even feel better in the short term. But you are really just hurting yourself more when you do so. But the ugliness you have seen in your partner is only the tip of the iceberg. When cheaters feel threatened by your sudden show of strength (at leaving) YOU will be the one to pay. Now is the time to protect yourself. Let him find out when you have him served — and after that keep your communication with him to an absolute minimum if No Contact isn’t possible.

    • Tessie. MissDeltaGirl
      Great posts!!!
      Between you it is all there, what is happening, what to do, what not to do.
      Clear, compassionate, practical, a lovely roadmap from crazy to safety.
      I have coped these too.
      So much wisdom and caring here.

  • “He will punish you”oh how I love the punishing phase! Nailed it one again, CL – you can’t see me but I’ve thrown myself at your feet and am in awe of your wittiness and spot on analogies of the disordered.

    It’s not bad enough to screw someone else, abandon you etc. nope these assholes have to threaten and make you feel like nothing and turn it on you. Chumpy me now prefers the go fuck your self phase much better.

  • You need to start differentiating between what you want to believe and what you *actually* believe. Those are very hard to tease apart at first, but that is the key to realizing that the only way forward is out with a spouse like yours. I’m so sorry, I know how horrible it is, but the farther away from him you get the more you’ll realize that there wasn’t ever a choice. Not really. Good luck.

    • How I wish that a friend of mine would see it like this FreeVixen, “You need to start differentiating between what you want to believe and what you *actually* believe.” She is going to try wreconciliation with her x, he has an illegitimate son born just before they had their second daughter, he had a new “relationship” going on recently where the gf’s neighbors thought that he lived there with the gf. I don’t know what my friend is waiting for, maybe for her x to bring home the new gf and they can all live like “sister wives”. Crazy making, gaslighting and blameshifting, can really f*ck you up.

      • What we need is a former chump SWAT team to deal with these situations with shock and awe. We’ll swoop in with legal council, someone to watch the kids, a therapist, security, and pie, bitches. We’ll have the new chump’s shit straightened out and the cheater blinded by reality in 2 days, tops. Done and done! (There’s a reality show pitch for you…)

        • Free Vixen-
          And a brilliant one. You should try and pitch that….ever how it is done. CL should float it with her agent.

          There are reality shows about filthy houses, brides too big for their dresses and I believe there was even one about parking meter attendants.

          CL would be the star, and then she would have a team that you mentioned. Like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy…a team to come in and radically scoop someone out of the living hell of being gas lighted with a cheater.

          That show would KICK ASS. Forget the Book- syndicated television and you and CL would be bathing in champagne and counting stacks of cash.

          • Pitching a TV show is so far out of my area of expertise that I will leave it to chumps more media savvy than I. 🙂 But heck yeah I’d watch that show, ESPECIALLY with Tracy as the star!

  • What I love most about you Chump Lasy is that this is not a safe space. There are two-by-fours of truth a flyin’. You cuss like a fucking sailor, and Chump Nation pulls no punches.

    There are a lot of different stories here, but it doesn’t take long to see that every second spent with someone who would betray my trust and have sex with another isn’t worth one more moment of my life. One and done. I won’t be a slave.

    So, LosingMyMind: get the fuck out. Get mad. Fuck his stupid gaslighting ass. He sucks. Tell him to piss up a rope. He’s a worthless piece of glittery dog shit. Fuck him and the skanky bitch he rode in on. She is a nasty cunt, and she can have him. I hope he dies in a grease fire.

    As for you, welcome to the club nobody wants to join. You made it. You’re here. This is it. It sucks. But at least you found Chump Lady. You got this.

    • This is exactly what I didn’t want to hear when I first came here, but it’s what gave me the gumption to stand up to the lies and to withdraw the benefit of the doubt in exchange for cold, hard reality. If it weren’t for the continued chump nation 2x4s that reinforced what my inner voice already knew, I might have believed the lies that I caused the affair and that my reaction to it was the sole barrier to reconciliation. I needed this legion of people who were angry on my behalf. This isn’t a safe space for wishful thinking, but it sure as hell is a safe space for that tiny internal voice that refuses to accept injustice.

    • Ian.

      What Vixen says below about this site has helped me the most. You are angry and show it. I sometimes am but then get a bit chumpy again and so come back so that you and Ex and nomoreskank can help me remember that I have a lot to be angry about and not to forget it.

      • Capricorn-you haven’t hit angry yet. You will. It was around 8 months out from d-day when I was most ferocious. I’m looking forward to your anger. I love Ian’s rant??

        • Agree with Ex, Capricorn–you are a month, two months, three? from the deepest, darkest rage you have ever felt. Once you allow STBX to recede even more from your life, and start practicing grey rock, the full horror of how he betrayed you and how he strangled your marriage will come rushing at you with amazing clarity. The rage will have a life of its own; it will hover above you, it will reside within you, it will encompass your every thought for weeks on end. You will not know if you can contain the rage; you will worry about bludgeoning him with the nearest available cylinder should you see him.

          Prepare yourself, this will be unlike anything you have ever felt before. But it will propel you forward, and away from the cheater. It is as necessary as muscle pain during a marathon.

          • Ah… the rage. It’s that throwing all his shit in his car and setting it on fire Angela Bassett level of rage. Which I sorta did minus the car. Now there’s my version of disc golf with any breakable objects that he left behind. I highly recommend it.

            • You don’t have to do it Cap In fact it is ill advised to do those things, but sometimes just having it in you to consider it is empowering.

              • Getting assaulted, and having loaded guns pulled out in front of her on D-day probably tipped HLMHLN’s rage a wee bit past most of us. Her STBX (not-so-affectionately known as PeeWee) was lucky to escape with burned suits and broken martini glasses. I myself might have been tempted to go the route of “I knows a guy who knows a guy….”

          • One thing I kept in mind when angry was to never,ever give my XWs the satisfaction of seeing it.

            NPDs love attention,positive,negative ,whatever. My XWs had big enough egos already.

            • I don’t think the full rage comes until you’ve thrown them out, anyway. It requires the clarity of what they’ve done to us, and clarity isn’t possible until the chump is a safe distance.

        • Hi Ex, Ian and Capricorn.
          I am 9 months out of the D day and anger is a new emotion. We supposedly reconciled last June. It was such an easy process for him that he later texted his close friend that we are fine and all I needed was a little extra attention and the p…s job. So humiliating. I kept feeding myself with illusions till now. It takes time and with my tendency to spackle I imagine 9 months is still a good timeframe. I pray to not fall into this trap again. Unfortunately no contact is not an option yet.

    • IAN! 😀

      How are you doin?? Beau and I are doin great! We hope you are too!

      You will LOVE THIS…little playboy neighbor brought his latest home…her and her dog…beautiful dog by the way, it tried to attack Beau through the fence and Beau HIKED HIS LEG AND PEED ON IT! LMAO! Oh man…I think Beau felt betrayed! So FUNNY! 😀

      …seriously, I brought him up with manners, truly I did, but I think he just couldn’t take anymore shit!


      • Howdy, Jeep. ?

        Your joy radiates through the internet!

        So many players in your tale. I’ll trust Beau’s good judgment!

        Happy Thnksgiving, Jeep. A lot to be thankful for!

        • 😀 Yes I do have a lot to be thankful for!!! We all do!!!! We get to live cheater free!!!

          Same ‘player’ that I handed his hat to 3 months ago 😀 Called him out on his shit!!! Narcdar is working!!! (Thanks for that word Ian :D)


    • Ian, “One and done. I will not be a slave.” This is all we really need to know deep in our souls.

      I actually found this site a life saver because I had read rec sites and I just could not “reconcile” that garbage with what I was feeling inside. I was hurt, I was mortified, I was in horrible pain and I was angry. I was so damn angry on the inside that I could not reconcile with this horrible excuse for a “shark, walking around in a human suit” that I was married to. I was so run down by the gaslighting, blameshifting and outright lying for 22 freaking years, but there was still a little spark of the woman I used to be before, that I just could not fathom that us chumps believe the straight up glitter covered turd’s ideas, thoughts, words or any other thing that this “thing” I was married to spouted out.

      I love this site, I love how CL just cuts to the matter at hand, I love the cussing, because I never trust someone who does not cuss when the shit hits the fan (like x and his entire cheating family, mother, father and siblings), I love the comradre and the examples of the horrible excuses of excrement that torment us and want to make us believe them. I love the way that chumps rally around other and new chumps. I love that people take time out of their day to help others.

      One and done. I will not be a slave.

  • Dear Losing, remembering those days makes me shudder. I feel the pain in your letter to CL and it hurts my soul for you. Everything everyone had written above is so very true. There is no trust, respect, caring or love left in your marriage. You are hanging on from fear. So did I. Until I tried to kill myself and HE DIDNT CARE. Do you want that to be you?

    Please go to a good therapist, a better lawyer and reclaim yourself and your dignity.

    I wrote lists of what I want, need and deserve to give me strength. Do that for yourself. Keep copies everywhere so you can read them when overwhelmed. Because you deserve a love that nourishes your soul, one that dies not leave you anxious and exhausted. And that kind of love has to come first from within yourself directed solely towards YOU. He will never provide you with that.

    Wishing you courage, strength and dignity as you determine what’s best for YOUR LIFE. Think only about yourself and what you need and deserve. (Gigantic hugs).

  • Maybe he is telling the truth and those hotel, restaurant, etc. costs were not spent on Jackie. Lets face it, six years? Pretty much established Jackie is beyond desperate and willing to take crumbs. I’m thinking it was spent on another twit he was trying to woo.

    • KB22, I never thought it but bet you’re right. There probably is another ow, and he is throwing Losing off the trail with Jackie. Lol, losers all of them.

  • Men, women, doesn’t matter. Just plain horrible. They come up with excuses all the time, like “I wanted to experiment,” “My___ wasn’t giving me what I needed,” “This will make our relationship stronger.” All bull. They shouldn’t be allowed in public. If you love someone, you stick it out even when it gets bad. If you feel temptation, go home or go to your loved one and use those feelings on them. Cheaters don’t understand how much it really hurts to check up on your spouses contact [email protected] Tell him from Natalie and he will help

    • “They shouldn’t be allowed in public!” That seriously made me laugh out loud!!! Bwwwaaaaaahhhhhh! Look away, FUCKING look away!

  • He may be serious about a lawyer, great. Do not be tempted to give in thinking the other woman has won. Won what? A lying cheating POS who teats women like rubbish. Result!She gets to listen to him.
    or, he is using this to get you to beg him not to leave. ie grovel.
    You need to breath clean air, and that is air nowhere near him.
    I used to imagine mine had a terrible smell. It helped. His character literally stinks. It does help overcome nostalgia for what I thought I had.

    • If I’m handing mine something and his hand touches mine, my stomach heaves. He has a force field of repulsion around him

  • I did eventually leave and that has worked out fine even though there has been NO financial satisfaction. I often wonder if things would have been different if I had been able to stay in the house, for which I had signed a mortgage, and forced him to leave. It would have been difficult watching him go to her then come back but maybe in the long run I could have sold the house myself because I really didnt want it. It would have been cheaper than what I pay now.

  • Sometimes I am amazed at just how strong our ability is to deny reality and rewrite history. Even when we are an “eye-witness” to the facts, we look for a way to make things the way we want for them to be instead of the way they are. We are socially programmed to overlook the truth, and we subsist on the remnants of dreams from fairy tales. We cannot quite come to grips with the idea that we deserve to be loved, and treated well.

    I don’t understand why it takes so long to accept the way things really are. I read once that it takes an average of 7 times for an abused person to leave their abuser before the leaving finally works. Or, they die. I guess that will skew the results of the tally a bit. At any rate — why allow the repeated failure so many times, before making a change? Why allow yourself to be abused, over and over, until you finally get the strength to leave? Why are you not stronger when you are first abused, than you become when you have been beaten down repeatedly? Why does one and done sound so harsh? It should be the most reasonable thing in the world? If they do it once, they will do so again, because your forgiveness lets them know they can get away with it again.

    I think it may be because we have a problem differentiating between a mistake and a premeditated action. We want to believe that it was a mistake, because that is easier for us to forgive. Actually, the evidence screams that it was a premeditated action. No one can have an affair by accident. The lies actually start before the physical cheating does, and continue on forever. Don’t expect the truth from a liar. You won’t be disappointed.

    • This! And I think because we all believe people are inherently good. Uh No. Not ex, although he is a great actor with all the outward appearances and trappings of a successful man.

      • Until I lived it, I didn’t know people like my STBX existed besides as characters in movies. I have known him for so long (more than half our lives) that I thought I KNEW him. I am still occasionally stunned that so many of these creatures exist.

    • Portia, this post is golden!!!! New chumps, read this, internalize this, let this propel you to make a better, cheater-free life for yourselves.

      “Why does one and done sound so harsh? It should be the most reasonable thing in the world? If they do it once, they will do so again, because your forgiveness lets them know they can get away with it again.”

      Your “forgiveness” gives them permission to “get away with it again”, and they will do it again as long as they could “get away with it” and they will do it again and again. This is what cheaters do, they do the same thing (cheating) again and again.

      Its’s a cold slap of water to the face, but chumps have nothing to work with when their spouses cheat, disclaimer: there may be that one “fantasy” unicorn among all these cheating f*cks, but they are so few and far in between that they are like a mirage, a dream, a come to life fantasy.

  • Losing – omg your husband sounds like my x with all the weeping and references to his “dark hell”.
    How he’ll never ever forgive himself and will feel the remorse his entire life. He said he would make sure everyone knew that he had betrayed me and how wonderful it was that I let him stay for 2 years to see if he could make amends but the damage was just too great. That I was amazing and kind to let him try. Guess what? All of it was an act. And he is a good actor – you have to be to have a double life for TEN years. As soon as I made him move out he spun that story until our divorce was completely my fault. It was my “anger issues.” There is not one shred of remorse. He loves it when people come up to him and say how sad they are we split up. He just shakes his head sadly and thanks them. He is such a fraud. Now my kids ask me why he hates me so much when he was the one with the secret life. He HATES me. (Well I did have a mean tone that bothered him and I often left the kitchen cabinets open.) Please please let this guy go as fast as you can. What a narcissistic loser playing victim! My x has been out of the house for 9 months and I am so much HAPPIER. Do not stay with a lying piece of shit.

    • KathleenK
      I love your posts.

      “I often left kitchen cabinets open”

      OMG. ???. Yes. How could you? All he did was lie and cheat for 10 years……

    • HAHA! I left the kitchen cabinets open too! My X has an illegitimate son for whom he was secretly paying child support out of our marital assets for 13 years, but I left the cabinets open. Sometimes I also said “Are you sure?” if I offered him ice cream after dinner and he said no thanks. That really made him feel disrespected.

      • OMG…left the cabinets opened and double checking if ice cream is wanted??? For me it was not putting the dental floss back in the right hand drawer! May we rot in hell for all of eternity for our mortal sins! Reason enough in my book to cheat. (eye roll.)

        • nomore, “May we rot in hell for all of eternity for our mortal sins! Reason enough in my book to cheat. (eye roll.)”

          And there we have it. The “real” reason that spouses cheat, those damn cabinet doors, the cause of all this pain, along with the unswept floors or unfolded laundry, damn those toddlers and teenagers for taking up all our time and energy.

          • They will always find something. My ex, the Fucktard, would come home from a week away “on business” and root through the garbage. Literally. It was a test of me. Sometimes he found an errant cigarette butt. Once, near the end, when I didn’t care enough to hide my carnivore proclivities in his absence, he was indignant to find a turkey carcass that the cats and I enjoyed immensely while his vegetarian ass was out of the house fucking my best friend from college while playing Big Dog in D.C. He demanded to know what that was. I said, “What Did You Do? Carry that all the way across country to plant it in our trash so I wouldn’t ask about Amy?” For once, he shut the fuck up.

    • Kethleenk My jaw just dropped when I read : “Well I did have a mean tone that bothered him “. I never thought anyone else but my future x would say such a thing. I could not believe my ears when he complained about my voice tone. Excuse me? I was born with this voice, did not choose or had a say about it, can not return or exchange it. Please, complain to God for He gave me this voice, tone and all.

  • Losingmymind,

    You have nothing to lose at this point, throw the bum out. He had the audacity to threaten leaving if you did not shut up about finding the extracurricular payments and then calling you by the name of his loser whore. The marriage is over, kaput. Right now it is up to you to go out with your head held high and with a bang. In a few years you’ll be happy that you took matters into your own hands instead of letting him run the show and leave you cuz you didn’t toe the line or even if you did toe the line and he leaves in any case. Besides I don’t believe anyone could really get over their spouse having a six year affair, you’ll always be wondering what he is up to when not in sight. That is no way to live.

  • Everybody….it’s Tuesday.
    My ex had several affairs, the duration of some I don’t know. The one he confessed to was 4 years and the one I found out about after he left me for the latest affair partner I confirmed was a minimum of 2years. There were others.
    I read this and realized I was lied to for 2,190 days. No more.
    I sold a piece of property that I got in the divorce that he wanted so badly in the marriage and then didn’t want the hassle of selling after we split up. He tossed it into the settlement to get it done…..his affair partner put the screws to him to just get it signed so she could “feel better” about their relationship.
    I’ve been reading here for over a year that one day I would just feel meh….the walls of my house would sing and that he would of finally left me. That’s today. My heart is happy. I’m THRILLED that he’s gone, I am happy he’s with her ( they deserve eachother) I’m just peaceful, happy……I had no idea this existed.
    I paid all my debt today, my bills will be on time, I have a great boyfriend, the love and respect of my kids, the worlds most yummy Labrador puppy ( that he wouldn’t let me have and I sold my engagement ring to buy) I’m doing it!! I’m living without this fuckwit…..and amazingly well.
    Losing…..leave him, please. This will not change.
    Happy Tuesday everybody……thank toy to everybody here but especially Tracy for helping me decode the bullshit and get here.

    • Congratulations, Paintwidow! That is one of the finest feelings in life. I too was “not allowed” a dog in the bad old days. My golden retriever is sleeping at my feet with a goofy grin, probably dreaming of your Labrador puppy.

      Have a great Tuesday!

    • Paintwidow

      Congratulations and thanks for sharing. It gives a newbie Chump goose pimples just to imagine this is even possible. And you went through such horrors. And you just sound meh.
      Happy happy Tuesday!

      • Capricorn, I didn’t think I would ever feel okay again. Then you just do, and you see that asshole out someplace or somebody tells you something about him or her and you just kind of wonder to yourself what you were thinking when you allowed yourself to get involved with that jerk off in the first place.
        I was hurt and devastated when he left me for her and now I kind of smile because I have a yummy, sweet boyfriend that is the polar opposite of the ex and makes me laugh like a mental patient daily and I think of the affair partner that “won” him and know by now she’s probably starting to figure out what she won. Its not so fun when it’s not all sex and secrets… it’s carpool for her young kids and living in their shitty rental.

    • PW- I know it was a long road to recovery. I’m so thrilled you made it. Yay you??

    • Happy Tuesday, Paintwidow! And Tuesday actually landed on a Tuesday! Extra bonus Happy Points for you!

  • Hi Losing,

    I feel really sad for you, and I remember all of the horrible aspects of sexing with James Bond. I’ve been trying to think of what made it possible for me to move on. It took a lot of attempts, and I still have to see the divorce through.

    Here’s something that may help you. Two things. One is a feeling in my heart (we must place strict guard over our hearts, or we’ll be no good for our kids, and they’ll repeat our problems in their lives), and the other is a vanity piece.

    About my heart: when he discarded me and abruptly left the country, gone when I came home from work? I felt a heavy dread left off of my heart.

    The vanity piece: my haggard face, deep wrinkles forming around my sad mouth and between my eyes, bags under my eyes, quickly improved. Gone cheater, instant face lift.

  • Maybe he really does have a plan to leave you now and has his ducks lined up to his best advantage. Maybe he already has an attorney, knows what he can get away with, has Jackie lined up to take the kids 50%, maybe this isn’t empty threats. These narcs notice when we stop believing, start questioning, start coming back into ourselves. Do you have any friends or relatives nearby who have been through difficult divorces, or might know someone else who has been through it and felt good about their attorney? I know about keeping his secrets, the deep shame of failure in a marriage, but it’s not your failure. Ask for help. We get attorneys because we’re not in a good place to advocate for ourselves after years in these “relationships”. Good luck.

  • I love you ChumpLady!! You are my internet BFF. I love coming here to hear some straight talk especially when I’m in the think of conflict with my stbx.

  • It’s truly amazing how chumps get totally gaslit, so much that your entire reality gets topsy turvy.

    Believe it or not someday you will look back and laugh at how crazy it was. By then you will have become mighty as they say here.

    Go silent, go rogue, silently gather all Intel and absolutely kick his ass legally. Divorce his ass, never share another bit of yourself with him again. Don’t let him know you’re building a divorce case, plan your escape and then bomb his ass with the lawyer letter.

    That’s your only good choice.

    And yes, he will HATE you forever because you had the balls to crush his immorality by being strong.

    It’s actually entertaining how much they will resent you for saving and improving your life on your terms after he dictated his terms to your for years.

    It’s fun to have the upper hand once you rise from the ashes.

    Do this! Crush, kill, destroy. The mf’er deserves it and you deserve to do it.

      • And I must add, a lot of these Cluster B A-holes will try for a second round with you if and when their replacements don’t work out. It’s called Hoovering for a reason. You were a known quantity and served their purpose for a long while. All they have to do is beg you to come back and lose yourself again. They will do it nicely, and often they will remind you that no one loved you like they did. They might even remind you of your faults that they only will forgive. WAKE UP! DO NOT GO THERE! The correct answer is no answer. Do not respond.

  • The ease at which lies and excuses so freely pour out their mouths never ceases to amaze me…. The only thing that IS believable in this scenario is that your husband cannot be trusted in word nor in deed.

    He has a warped little mind and he is too much of a coward to man up and be an adult. Instead he resorts to childish threats and suggests you throw him out if you don’t believe him…

    Take him up on it!! Tell him you’ve thought about what he said and that he is right! (Yes, turn the tables and play his game!) Tell him that the reconciliation isn’t working out the way you had hoped and his idea that he leave is a good one because you need some time apart. (There’s nothing for him to argue when you are “agreeing” with his assessment of things.)

    Don’t give him any wiggle room to stay. His decision to have an affair is THE reason your marriage is in a shambles now. It’s reasonable, and the least HE can do, to leave the household and give you the time and space that you need to make some decisions for yourself. He robbed you of that during the 6 years he was out fooling around behind your back. Don’t let him cow you or guilt you into thinking you are at fault. Remain cool, calm, and matter-of-fact about it. He is not looking out for your best interests.

    Get yourself a good lawyer and free yourself of the ridiculousness. You are worth it!!

  • Overandout, I am amazed at the lying too! When I knew nothing, I thought my X was a paragon of integrity and honesty. Now that I know, well, not EVERYTHING I’m sure, but ENOUGH of his horrifying activities I can see the multitude upon multitude of lies he told me over the 30 years we were together. And the acting, the posing, the pretending! Nowadays I don’t see or speak to him. There’s no point–after you’ve learned that everything that comes out of their mouths is a lie, and every emotion they exhibit is faked. We communicate now through lawyers.

    • You are mighty, champchump! I haven’t spoken to my ex in at least 3 years. Nothing about him is of interest to me anymore. He is not part of my life. Period. My health has improved. I love my life and am so grateful not to be wasting it on someone like him!!

    • I can undrsyand the desire to communicate through only lawyers, but doesn’t that get expensive?

      My bill is now approx $100k and I haven’t even gone to trial. As I cannot win this case. I am just trying to prevent my sociopathic STBX from convincing our judge that I (and kids) should be (financially) burnt to the ground today.

        • I lost well over $100k. Never went to trial. It hurts. The cost of freedom can be high.

      • Little to no contact is the best way to handle a narcissist or control freak. You have to fight back because they certainly aren’t concerned about a fair split. Rockstar, I sure hope that are documenting everything and that your lawyer realizes that your STBX is purposely trying to undermine you AND ruin you financially through the legal system. It’s sickening and I’m so sorry that you have an especially nasty fuckwit to deal with. I hope you can recover lawyer fees in your settlement. Unfortunately the courts/legal system are often a playground for the personality disordered.

      • Jesus. 100 K made me choke. There’s something to be said for eventually being free but there’s a whole other level of reality when you finally cop on to the parasitic nature of the industries that revolve around divorce and it’s evil cousin reconciliation.
        When I think of the marriage counselor fees, the attorney and court costs, the lost work time, any forensic accounting you have to get done and I haven’t even gotten into money lost to private investigators, cameras etc.’re talking big Benjamins.
        I’m so sorry you’re that far in the financial hole..

    • This >>> ” And the acting, the posing, the pretending! Nowadays I don’t see or speak to him. There’s no point–after you’ve learned that everything that comes out of their mouths is a lie, and every emotion they exhibit is faked.”

      After D-Day and after I moved out with the kids, I had to go back to our house that the evil monster was still living at. It was the first time I saw him after moving out. He met me on the front steps and I saw my old husband was back. The man I fell in love with. Mr. Charming Nice Guy. He’s the greatest actor in the world! Back at home the next day, I opened up the bank statement and found out her took over $11,000 out of our money market account. So he was able to be his usual nice guy the day before all the while he knew he took the money. It’s the same act he put on for 25 years. He can lie and cheat, but act like everything is fine and dandy! The next time I saw him at our sons XC meet and I had to talk with him about the house. I walked up to him and there was that stupid charming smile again! I met his smile with no smile and gray rocking as much as possible. Narcopath!

      • Wow. Mine is a fine actor too. He’d me smiling in my face and stabbing me in my back. I called him my Personal Judas.

  • LosingMyMind, so much has been said about the need to leave this situation. And I agree.

    What strikes me the most about your post is that it triggers my memories of wanting to believe. I know exactly how you feel. I trusted MoFaux more than myself. And that is a nauseating recollection for me.

    There is a strong suggestion (in the responses) that your husband is shifting blame and lying to do so. If that makes you uncomfortable it is because your are ‘under the influence’ of the general mindfuckery created by the explanations that have a grain of truth. By the gaslighting. By the longstanding, persistent, and incremental destruction of your self respect. You still have your high IQ but it can not help you when under the influence.

    Once you doubt yourself enough to rely on another to interpret reality ~~ then they have you under control. It is like being hypnotized. Please consider that you may be in this state and that is why CL/CN might be seeing things differently than you.

    I admire your courage. I believe you know the truth. You demonstrated that to CL by writing. Please know that I and many others here identify with the process of trying to regain full consciousness and escape the hypnotist. My prayer is that you do so. ? ( a Purple Heart for Courage), V

      • When we tried to reconcile a few months ago and I was struggling with how I can revive my trust again, he very wisely commented that once broken, trust is hard to rebuild and takes time. It’s exactly those words that resonated with me so I spackled again thinking that if he “gets it” now then he appreciates the whole reconciliation attempt and will do his share.

        I actually told him that it felt I was putting all my money into a “penny stock” of some questionable company hoping for that revolutionary cancer treatment discovery to make millions. It was yet another hopeless try to validate my story but in reality it just prolongs the denial stage.

    • “I trusted MoFaux more than myself. And that is a nauseating recollection for me.”

      This hit me like a kick to the gut. Never thought about it in those terms but you are dead on correct.

    • Virago,

      “Once you doubt yourself enough to rely on another to interpret reality ~~ then they have you under control.”

      5 gold stars on your forehead. This is super insightful and helpful. Perceptive to the MAX.

      The silver lining is that the longer I stay No Contact, I can see the truth of what a pot of rot my X is. I do not have to frantically ask others to interpret his actions. It is truly like a state of miserable hypnosis.

      No Contact breaks their evil spell. *And no sex. 🙂

  • This is so true! It is always “you are going to punish me because of this one mistake!” Let’s forget about the 6, 7, 8 years of other mistakes I made. You need to forget about the past and stop bringing it up, let’s focus on today and our love! yeck! I can almost here him say it! Run throw him out, lawyer up!

    • There is wisdom there. forget the past and this fuckwitt and move on with your life!

  • This is such a ploy! He is manoeuvring you to make the decision.
    He wants out but has no balls to make it happen. Also, if you do throw him out, it will all be your fault, not him having an affair.
    Calling her name during sex? He probably exhausted all other clues and you still don’t get it.
    In any case, you’re dealing with a screwed up. Please escape this toxic relationship.

    • Oh, I loved Chump Lady’s ending: “What do you want to guess, he says your name too?” Brilliant!
      If women would leave cheaters, they will eventually end up being their own problems! The world would be a better place, don’t you think? All it takes is for us to all to get wiser.

  • You know what you have to do. It sucks. It’s hard and painful and you don’t want to.

    Do it anyway. You deserve better.

    Run away from that man as fast as you can. Run.

  • Sorry to hear another story of an adulterer chronically jerking around his/her spouse.

    If cheater jerk in this story is anything like mine, Chump will bear the blame of his infidelity and manipulation of her NO MATTER WHAT. I did not file for divorce and treated STBX like a confused timid forest creature the way RIC suggests. Result? My now-STBX filed for divorce, claiming that I molested one of our kids, attempted to rape my husband, and stole from him. He asked the Court to ban me from ever seeing our kids again. I am handing over my life (decades’ worth of) savings to defend my right to see my kids as I am innocent. OP, Is this the type of quagmire you wish to enter? Do you want to go through other horrendous garbage other Chumps here describe?

    Unless there is some financial/legal/parental issue that I don’t know about, I think that there is no time like the present to abandon this sinking ship, which your unfaithful, abusive husband decided to sink over six years ago.

  • Losing My Mind,

    This man is your enemy. Don’t get tripped up by good memories, good orgasms or your good intentions.

    He is your enemy. He is intentionally, with malice and in willful disregard of your well being, shitting all over your face, body, home, soul, heart and sanity.

    You have lost your way. We all did. You are going to escape this abuse. You are going to understand, on a cellular level that getting away from your ENEMY is an emergency.

    Not a self improvement activity, not a way to get him back, but a life or death situation to save your own life. Cheaters will take you as low as you let them.

    Also, remember this: When you allow him to be a polygamist, (that is what this is) you are giving support to his relationship with the cum dumpster Jackie. Jackie is acting like a bitch today? Come home to you. Jackie will not give him head? You will. Jackie does not know the special hazelnut coffee he likes with breakfast? You do.

    Any failings Jackie has (cargo ships full) and you are there to kiss his boo boos and make it better. He is fighting with his limited mind to be with this skank ass cunt. Jackie is a fiction…..affairs are not real life. Let them hash out bills, car repairs, nothing for dinner, clogged drains and fights over the remote.

    *Yank away his fantasy life. Beat him to the punch and leave him. Let them wallow in the filth of their fucking. Treat him as your enemy. Be a warrior for your own life.

    I was heartbroken for you reading your letter. I am sorry. Be brave and mighty forces will come to your aid.

    • You betcha. That went along with “I wasn’t out looking for it.” That made me feel so much better….NOT!

  • I thought that was my story for a moment – six year affair with a Jackie – it was supposed to have started after we separated and I only found out the timespan when Jackie stormed my house while he was there doing fake reconciliation. He done a version of the nameslip thing too…oh yes, told lies that were so implausable that it was insulting yet I went along with it.
    Did I mention that there was Chris as well and she lasted about a year and I took him back then too.
    If this site was Chumps Anon I would be saying “my name is a Mary and I am a chump”.
    Please do not pretend that this can come good for you. My mistake was holding on in the name of denial and now he is trying to screw me over in the divorce settlement.
    Its only with hindsight that the truth becomes undeniable.

  • Stories like this one blow my mind. In general. But also because I could have written it.

    It’s so clear what’s going on, that there’s nothing to salvage, that Losing is lost, tormented, abused, and that her fuckwit of a husband is a chickenshit cake-eating sonofabitch. And I was there, too. The fucking PICK ME DANCE. See this little bit of self esteem? I don’t have much at all left, and I really need all I can get, but here you go, you can have it if you just love me. Love Me. LOVE ME!!!

    It’s like working with a puzzle box pulling levers and pushing buttons. What will make the butterflies appear? When will I hear I love you, that the OP isn’t really an OP, but actually just no one in particular. You’re all who matters to me! But sometimes the puzzle box spits out black windows and hornets. Like the OP’s name during sex (but oh please, those things flying at your face aren’t hornets, they’re butterflies. Really!). Dammit! What was it I did to make that happen? What combination of button pushes and lever pulls? I have to make sure that doesn’t happen again. To continue playing with the puzzle box is the worse kind of addiction. Betrayal bonding for the win! And to win at the puzzle box is to lose one’s mind and soul.

    Losing, if you can, step away from your puzzle box, you will only get more addicted and more crazy. It will feel impossible for you to do, but we are here for you.

    • Chump dude!
      You made me laugh out loud. Well that’s me to a T.
      That puzzle box analogy is brilliant. Could describe my childhood and marriage.
      I have copied that.
      Thanks so much. ????

      • Capricorn!

        Oh that’s awesome! I’m glad I could make you laugh and that you liked my analogy. Your posts have really helped me. Yay!!

    • An experiment done on rats had one group being fed intermittently when they pushed on a lever and another group where the food supply was cut right off no matter how much they pushed – guess which group gave up pushing and moved on to seek new resources? The answer is the rats that were no longer rewarded with an occassional morsel – the other lot behaved like chumps do and went on and on trying although the food came less and less.
      We cling on and settle for the odd crumb and convince ourselves its a feast.

    • ChumpDude,that was excellent. Have you read Richard Skerritt’s “Meaning from Madness”? Very similar analogy to your puzzlebox.
      I recommend this e-book to folks dealing with a Cluster B.

  • why do cheaters all say the same thing? and 6 YEARS! SIX! although even a one night stand, IMHO, is still too many. LET HIM GO. KICK HIM TO THE CURB. I feel almost sorry for the OW – since she was frantically dancing to the FW’s tune for 6 YEARS! can’t blame you if you never knew. now that you know, losingmymind, please, I know it’s hard, but get out, before you lose your sanity. There is no reasoning with the disordered.

    Leave first, think later. 12 million chumps cannot be wrong and we will be here to support you.

  • “She’s a very convenient tool to bludgeon you with. Heck, I’m not even sure your husband made a “mistake” calling out her name, and then denying it. ”

    #thanks for not giving this scumbag the benefit of the doubt.

  • LosingMyMind, I hope by now you have called the police and are safe. Please file a report, make a complaint or whatever the police tell you to do. Also, please make sure you have a GREAT lawyer to help you throught this…sooner (like now) rather than later.

    CN, about a quarter of the way down the above comments, LosingMyMind told us that her husband just scratched her face and she was sitting on the curb. Because this comment is sort of buried, I think a lot of people who could help didn’t see it.

    What a horrible (so called) man.

  • Hi LosingMyMind, Robin drew my attention to your post about being thrown out and assaulted. How are you? People here are concerned for you, and also on the next day’s thread. Keep safe.

  • New to the site (lurking for a few weeks) & everyone has such beautiful and thought provoking comments. I keep reading to remind myself I need to stay away from this ‘man’ who claimed to love me, but who continued to hurt me in ways I didnt even think were possible. Losing- I hope you are safe & please update us.

    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone

  • Not to minimize the trauma, but it boggles my mind how many women stay even AFTER they discover that their husbands are serial cheaters. I just ended a 3 1/2 year relationship affair with my married boyfriend after catching him in a lie. Though he had spent years assuring me he did not love his wife, and planning when he would file for divorce and leave, I found out that he just bought her a vacation home in New York. I ended our relationship HOURS after I found out. I sent her an email telling her about the affair, and a month and a half later, they are still together. We were together 3 1/2 years, he dated someone a number of years ago for three years, and had a several months long relationship with someone before her. I thought perhaps it was a Romanian thing that she stayed, now I just attribute it to stupidity and/or desperation.

    • You stayed 3.5 years with a guy you KNEW was a cheater. You caught him in “a lie”? Please. Deceit is the entire underpinning of your relationship.

      She’s known for a MONTH. You knew for YEARS who he is. And you’re outraged why?