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UBT: Chump Lady’s Attitude

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attitudeDear Chump Lady,

Here’s a gem. I told my ex to read your blog.

“You might want to know that CLs abusive condescending and completely unempathetic attitude towards me (who actually wants to be a good person) has been very hurtful. I want to be good but she (and I guess you) just want to focus on how awful I am. And sorry for the drama. I still hate CL though. Because she HATES and DESPISES me and people like me. Well I don’t need her crap… got enough self loathing without her piling it on with the WAY she says it. Bitch that she is.”

Ella

Dear Ella,

What response were you expecting when you told your cheating ex to read a blog with the tagline “Leave a cheater, gain a life”?

Warm fuzzies? Insight? For him to appear prostrate before you as a sobbing, puddle of snot and regret? I’m so sorry, Ella! I never knew the depths of my douchebaggery until I read this blogger! You’re so utterly correct. I suck! 

Brush up on that no contact thing. Don’t poke the afflicted. The watchword here is MEH.

I’m about to poke the afflicted and UBT this thing, so do as I say and not as I do. But as you asked and all.

“You might want to know that CL’s abusive condescending and completely unempathetic attitude towards me

Clearly, the mindfuck is firmly set to the Self-Pity Channel. With a little DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender) thrown in for good measure.

The infidelity support site is “abusive” (not the cheater). Condescending (not the cheater, who is offhandedly “sorry for the drama,” but can we get back to what a BITCH Chump Lady is?!)

Unempathetic isn’t even a word. But if you mean that the Universal Bullshit Translator lacks sympathy for cheaters and their bullshit, you’d be right.

(who actually wants to be a good person) has been very hurtful.

What matters here are my hurt feelings! Not my failure to be a good person. Wanting to be a good person is what’s important. I actually want to be an Olympic cross-country skier. It doesn’t matter that I sit on the sofa in stretchy pants and eat the last of the gingerbread cookies and am winded by the feeblest of exertions — what MATTERS is my desire to be an Olympic cross-country skier! Your observation that withered prune pits have more lung capacity than I do was very hurtful.

I want to be good but she (and I guess you) just want to focus on how awful I am.

I’m sorry. We were blinded by your awfulness.

And sorry for the drama.

Just an aside. Sorry! Let’s just file my treachery, betrayal, and wantonly risking your sexual health under “drama.” The drama. Not my drama. Just drama. Drama happens. Sorry!

I still hate CL though. Because she HATES and DESPISES me and people like me.

She hated me first! 

Actually, Chump Lady doesn’t hate you. She just decodes you. Chump Lady feels totally whatever-ish about you personally. You’re rather amusing material and without your bullshit she wouldn’t have much of a blog, so thank you.

Well I don’t need her crap…

I’m sure you generate quite enough crap on your own without Chump Lady’s help.

got enough self-loathing without her piling it on with the WAY she says it.

The disgust! The self recriminations! How can you live under the crushing burden of remorse that is “sorry for the drama”?

Bitch that she is.”

Air kisses to you too. Hope you trip and fall into a pile of self-loathing.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
      • Me neither. Mr. Stats would just write a report to attempt to prove CL is the disordered one, complete with stats and cherry picked SMEs Esther Perel check your inbox! (Well not that he knows about her, but if he got on a CL research rampage she’d be a shoo-in!)

      • I agree. New chump here, a few months in, haven’t got the guts up yet to take action against my cheater, but no way would I hand him my moral support on a platter. I downloaded ChumpLady’s book and when he asked me what I was reading, I told him “A book on infidelity”. His breezy reply? “Oh, just ask me if you want to know anything”. Feeling sassy, after a bit of CL inspiration was, “Oh, it’s not about you, it’s about what I decide to do about things”. I was quite proud of myself for that, but unfortunately have not been able to keep it up. With a child just over six months old (DDay was just over two months ago, baby was just over two Months old apparently when he started his ’emotional’ affair – who does that?) I just don’t feel strong enough to take the bull by the horns at the moment. My time will come though. You guys are my inspiration though, and I laugh a lot reading your observations and experiences here. Some of it seems so familiar, and other times I just thank Dog I haven’t had to live through the amazing times some of you have. You are all strong and mighty. Thank you.

        • Good answer! We are totally proud of you!
          StigOfTheChump, you asked who does that? The worst kind of cheaters, the immature ones, who cannot live with the idea of coming second place (to a baby). There’s no emotional affair there, it’s quite physical. Better start gathering evidence and lining up your ducks. This breed of fucked up is going to throw you under the bus whenever you will hit hard times. He’s comparing human beings as washing machine models – and there is always a better model on the market!
          Please focus on getting rid of him with maximum financial gains. That’s all he cares about.

        • Disordered people do that. How do I know? Those were my exact words when I found out another woman got pregnant by my son’s father when our son was just 5 weeks old, “who does that?!” Save yourself the coming misery, gaslighting, lies, betrayal and your self-worth by getting rid of your disordered man. Enraged is right, men like that bail anyways the minute something becomes an inconvenience or a shinier prospect comes along. Bail first.

    • Damn, that Onion article is so good, it’s almost worth breaking NC with my X just to send it to him. I can just see him nodding in agreement ; ).

    • My X really HATED CL and all it stood for. Because CL showed the X to be who she really was and not the scared little forest creature she really wanted to be.

  • I’m empathetic to Ella, who is still working under the glow of the gaslighting assumption that the ex is a reasonable, ethical person who would return to the path of integrity with a nudge from the right direction. The exactly right direction. From the precisely unjudgemental person. Lovingly. With the same gentle pressure and happy ending he got from that unlicensed massage therapist. On a sunny day in Portland. 83 degrees.

    See, as long as you meet all the conditions for perfection, he might possibly meet the bare minimum for human decency to the one person he vowed to honor above all others. If not, fuck it. His part was too hard.

    Give it a few months, Ella. If you predict the cheaters responses by his actual past behavior rather than your idea of right and wrong, you’ll be clairvoyant!

    Magic 8 Ball, will my ex-husband help with that boring copay or school lunches? Outlook is hazy! Will he however purchase 80 bucks worth of Orchesstra Fudge! Definitely!

    Will my son’s father pay anything toward his son’s medical bills or funeral? No. Will he give his brother a lecture on how medical bills are a mirage because The Man should make healthcare free? Absolutely!

    See how this works? Judge the expected action by the actor, not ethics or logic, and you win! Occasionally, the blind self loathing squirrel will hand you a nut and you can be overjoyed. Till you realize it’s a rotten nut. Then you’re back to meh.

    We all win!

    • “See, as long as you meet all the conditions for perfection, he might possibly meet the bare minimum for human decency to the one person he vowed to honor above all others. If not, fuck it. His part was too hard.”

      Kunty Kibbler actually posted on Facebook, once it became clear I wasn’t going to be mindfucked any longer and was calling her out on her behavior:

      “Go ahead and judge me. Just remember to be perfect for the rest of your life.”

      Just another way of saying: “I’m a special case, the word needs to account for that fact.”

      • Also a clumsy play of the false equivalency: there are only two states, fucked up and perfect, and all fucked up people are equal.

        Yeah, no. I’m very sure I can go my whole life without being a serial cheater. And whatever my faults, I will not cause the kind of pain to my family that my cheating ex wife caused.

        • I still get that a lot from my ex: “We’re all human. You’re not perfect either.” Because somehow putting too much salt in the mashed potatoes or that one time when I lost it over some minor thing is equivalent to 20 years sleeping with prostitutes and random women on four continents without mentioning that fact to your spouse. And saying that they are not equivalent makes me bitter and “stuck” in the victim role and generally not the kind of superior being who would smile on cheating as an oh so exquisite marker that the this special item, the ex, is a luxury hand-crafted human.

          • That’s because this is the borderline’s MO. Everything is split. You’re either perfect or evil so there are no false equivalents because in their minds, wearing that sweater they hate really is the same as fucking your daughter’s soccer coach. Just imperfect beings doing imperfect things, but really, that sweater is hideous and made me suck his dick.

        • I got barraged after D-day with this kind of thinking from a person who considers himself to have reached a place of enlightenment (he is undoubtedly the person The Onion article was based upon).

          He explained that my ex-wife’s serial cheating was no different in terms of being wrong than my failure to take the trash out when I should have. It was just the meaning I ascribed to it based on a faulty belief system (that a person owes a spouse a duty of honesty and fidelity, which he vehemently claims is a false belief).

          His view was that the problem was my false beliefs, and that if I really loved my wife unconditionally I would forgive her instantly and be happy for her that she found men she actually enjoyed having sex with during our marriage, and continue in the marriage.

          This was in the immediate aftermath of D-day, when I was wondering around in shock. I actually began to question whether I was equally in the wrong. I eventually regained some semblance of sanity – and decided the two were not one and the same.

          • My first thought: he was doing your ex. My second thought: his logic might make sense if he was your trash collector (not). What an apologist douche.

          • I’ve had TWO women tell me that I made a vow to love my cheater unconditionally and that he has an illness and I should try to help him through this. One said “Love is stronger than evil.”

            I was like “Beyonce, is that you?” Then I laughed and laughed and then literally, blocked them from ever contacting me again.

      • You guys are brilliant and I can’t improve on what you said…but I did fall into the false thinking that I could most certainly persuade him to act like a decent person if I said just the right thing in just the right way at just the right time then he would UNDERSTAND and OF COURSE he would care and do much better to not rip my heart out on a daily basis, because people care, right?

      • “Only God can judge me”

        AKA – I should be able to act like an asshat with no consequences. Humans judge other humans. It’s how we survive in this world.

        • Yeppers!
          But, they forget about the fact that God judges cheater’s as worthy of annihilation! (Rev 21:8)
          We are just agreeing with God’s judgement…..

    • “If you predict the cheaters responses by his actual past behavior rather than your idea of right and wrong, you’ll be clairvoyant!” ~ @Luziana for the win!!!

      • Yeah I’m basically ready to get this tattooed on me. This quote right here is the gosh-honest, distilled truth of this entire site in a nutshell.

    • “See, as long as you meet all the conditions for perfection, he might possibly meet the bare minimum for human decency to the one person he vowed to honor above all others. If not, fuck it. His part was too hard.”

      THIS ^^^^^

    • Will he pay his part of our health insurance as agreed upon? Nope. Will he buy a Minipooper, oops, Minicooper to look splendid when he drives up to the bars? Definitely. (a Minicooper is a VERY expensive vehicle in my country and cheater definitely can’t afford it)

    • Way to come back, Luz. So good to hear from you.

      Buried in there is some heavy reality, though. I hope you’re doing ok–well, as ok as can be expected.

      You’re so fucking brilliant!

    • See, as long as you meet all the conditions for perfection, he might possibly meet the bare minimum for human decency to the one person he vowed to honor above all others. If not, fuck it. His part was too hard.

      This ^^^ You have a gift for silky self-expression, Luziana. DDay has only scraped past the two month mark here, and although I would love to just leave and never look back, we are going into MC (read the dumb shit therapist says post and have some good comebacks should shit get ludicrous). It popped into my head today that the ‘success’ of this counselling is predicated on my ability to forgive and basically act as though none of this happened, so that Mr Stig feels less of a sad-ass and ‘safe’ enough to emotionally invest in his primary relationship again. Any unguarded smart-assery (I have a terrible habit of, once I have gotten over the shock, making bad jokes at the other persons expense) will send him scuttling back into his, “you scarred me so deeply/were such a horrible person to me, I must leave you, for my emotional wellbeing” (Oh, and BTW a few days later I will admit to an emotional affair that’s been going on while you were coming to grips with being a new mother, but seriously, that has nothing to do with OUR problems, it’s just timing, OKAAAY) shtick. So yeah, I better be good, if I expect decent behaviour from him.

    • I wish CL had a way to ‘star’ comments. This is a 5 gold star winner!!! ROFL. I’m pasting it to my personal note page.

    • “See, as long as you meet all the conditions for perfection, he might possibly meet the bare minimum for human decency to the one person he vowed to honor above all others. If not, fuck it. His part was too hard.”

      That quote totally sums up my 33 year relationship with my ex husband.

  • Oh the horror! Someone who sees through his bullshit and calls it like it is. Of course he has to get behind that narrative just in case his chump has a tiny bit of empathy left for him so he can manipulate the dickens out of her. “Sob! Not only is Chumplady picking on me but so are you! I’m gutted and it’s all your fault. I get no kibbles for wanting to be good! (Not that I actually change my abusive behavior or anything like that!) You bitches are endangering my kibble supplyyyy! No fair!”

  • The WAY she says it is what brings me here every weekday. My STBX, back when I spoke to him, vacillated between acting like he was the wounded party – “I’m in the midst of the biggest crisis of my life, and you won’t do my laundry!” and acting like he was on a higher plane of existence “I have met my academic and career goals (thanks for putting me through med school, chump) and now you aren’t supporting me reaching for my spiritual goals!”
    The common thread was his entitlement.
    It was all about him, what happened to me and the kids was an unfortunate side effect.

    I think cheaters all think they are unique beings. That their behavior is special and driven by their special circumstances. I think they hate being pinned down as a “type” and predictable. I was stunned at first by the similarities between “my” cheater and those of other chumps. Now, I think it is hilarious.

    • Wow. Entitlement is right. You gave him $99 but kept $1 for yourself and he begrudges you that. A clear example of how whatever you give, It Isn’t Enough.

      • THIS^^

        JILL SCOTT
        ‘Hate On Me’

        If I could give you the world on a silver platter
        Would it even matter, you’d still be mad at me
        If I could find in all this a dozen roses
        Which I would give to you, you’d still be miserable

        Here reality I’m gon’ be who I be and I don’t feel no faults
        For all the lies that you bought
        You can try as you may, break me down but I say
        That it ain’t up to you, gone and do what you do

        Hate on me, hater, now or later
        ‘Cause I’m gonna do me, you’ll be mad, baby
        Go ‘head and hate on me, hater, I’m not afraid of
        What I got I paid for, you can hate on me

        Ooh, if I gave you peaches outta my own garden
        And I made you a peach pie, would you slap me high
        Wonder if I gave you diamonds out of my own womb
        Would you feel the love in that, or ask why not the moon?

        • OH MY GOD Luz! I absolutely LOVE you! This was my THEME music during the rough times. This song by Jill Scott is everything and sums up the futility of trying to reason with these clowns.

          “If I could give you the world on a silver platter
          Would it even matter, you’d still be mad at me
          If I could find in all this a dozen roses
          Which I would give to you, you’d still be miserable”

          My EX in a nutshell.

    • Yes, that is one of the things that struck me reading so many of the stories on here – variations on a terrible, shitty theme, but mostly similar. One of the things that helped me when Mr Stig told me he was leaving, was that some of his behavior pinged with a book that I read many years ago, The Script: The 100% Absolutely Predictable Things Men Do When They Cheat. (We know the xx is no respecter.) A lot of reviewers slam the authors as two bitter divorcees that hate men, but I found it interesting the way they addressed the process, from the initial avowal that they would never do something like that, through to the gaslighting (you’re crazy), the devaluing, the presents (a grand gesture that the cheater will often make just before they leave/reveal, that helps cement in their mind that they’re not a bad person to do what they’re doing) and then finally the justifications/ blaming they make for why they are doing this (hint: All your fault). So when I started to hear some of this stuff, and realized that gaslighting explained the weird behavior of himself and other friends (He’d been telling people that my mental health status was bad, coping with a new baby, and he was being driven into the arms of another woman by my behavior), plus he was talking online to a woman that he had met through his hobby, I knew to keep my cool and see how things played out. I was shocked, but thankfully forewarned. So although this chumpdom status is a whole new world, I am thankful someone (and the people here) had bothered to share how it goes down, and what to expect. So grateful.

  • I’m not Ella but if I had ever told my ex about this site he would respond exactly like the above BS so I can relate. It is incredibly hard to realize you lived with a two-faced POP (Piece of Poo) all your life. That all those treasured milestones were only important to you and all he did was give lip-service so the world would think he was on-board with actually being an honorable, decent sort of person. Unfortunately we can’t go back and start over when we were young but we can start over now so better late than never. Change the picture in your head (still working on that myself) and face the facts – s/he will never change because there is no reason for them to want to change. They are happy (and they don’t give a damn about you, the kids, their extended families, or friends) and what they want is so much more important than anything else in the world. Trust they suck……..

  • It’s the WAY you say it after all. It wasn’t his unethical behavior after all that self loathing he’s dealing with. He wants to be good. Ella trust he sucks.

  • I dunno, Chump Lady. “He actually wants to be a good person.”

    I think you maybe hurt his self-esteem.

    The WAY you say something is, after all, much more important than the WAY you actually behave.

    Guess he schooled you.

    • If they act nice, they think that it doesn’t matter what they do. They also separate themself from their actions and they become the victim of other people’s anger and “bitterness”.
      >I don’t know how much more of your anger I can take
      >Poor me, she is bitter because she cannot forgive me
      >I’m sorry you had to live through deceit and betrayals, but we made all our decisions together.
      >I’m sorry IT hurt them
      >[After giving him space to decide what life he wanted & him divorcing me] You left me!
      >There was a lot of alcohol and “they” were sheet dancing and hanging on poles everywhere …
      >I cried (Afterwards) every time
      >I hope someday everyone will just accept it
      >I want to be the best absentee father

      • That last one. Best absentee father. Yup, just show up twice a year and take pics to post online. Makes you a great father.

  • Ella

    I laughed out loud at this. That was SO me when I was a couple of months out from DDAY 3.

    I recommended CL’s site to my cheater (and actually anyone who stood within five feet of me -and this is kind of still true).

    I did genuinely expect him to suddenly be hit by a bolt of insight ???. I found the site so true, so genuine, so full of the obvious that I was only just beginning to see I really did think he would suddenly do a forehead slap and come to his senses. OMG. I really fully 100% expected this.

    When he seemed, shall we be generous and say, a little lukewarm I was surprised and a bit hurt.
    ‘Can’t you see what she is saying? Don’t you recognise yourself? Me? This cheating stuff??

    Well now I can see how far I have come in six months!! My turn to forehead slap. ?

    Honestly this made me laugh out loud. Cheered me up no end and the day started a bit rocky. I see now he can’t get it, just not wired right (I choose to believe this rather than intentional cruelty) and it’s not me that’s the problem at all.

    He is a sad sausage that I have to remember is entirely fixated on his own needs and wants, his upset, his struggles, his centrality.

    Brilliant CL. I’m still laughing……?

    • And all those times in our life when he seemed so calm in a crisis, so relaxed about the kids being in potentially difficult situations, unworried about anything?? He just didn’t give a fuck.
      Amazing.

      • I have these thoughts too. When our daughter was diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder, I was gutted. I was so worried about her future and her quality of life. (She is great, btw.) He didn’t react at all. (He was of course not at any of the appointments.) At first I attributed it to shock (a lot of people go through stages of grief), then, I convinced myself that he was being strong – and just demonstrating a matter of fact acceptance – that he was “the rock” of our family. Snort!
        He just didn’t care – except for how it affected him. He read no books, did no research, learned nothing to help our child navigate the world.
        He still has no understanding 12 years later.

        • I know what you mean, louisvilleflower. My ex’s lack of empathy and emotion throughout our marriage was so strange to me. I kept thinking that it was really there, he was just being strong, etc. Turns out my first instinct was right — empathy just didn’t exist, except for himself. It was a big revelation to me when I was trying to explain to my mother that he just couldn’t understand that he was hurting me, when my mom said, “He understands, he just doesn’t care.” That had never occurred to me before. All those times I tried to gloss over and explain his lack of compassion to others…when all along it didn’t exist.

          • Lyn, I didn’t think people like that existed. I thought only soap opera characters were that cold and duplicitous. Even when slapped with the truth (over and fucking over) I still didn’t get it until my therapist suggested I read about narcissism.

          • Spackling covers this nicely. Its such a great word . oh look! Some nasty comment/ no compromise/ no sympathy when YOU are sick …get out the Spackle ! He was tired/overworking/ depressed about money / stressed blah blah we have Spackle for just about every single disordered relationship behaviour . I suppose that’s why they have the NERVE to say they have contempt for us as they walk out the door. No more Spackling !!

        • louisvilleflower, my child too is somewhere on the spectrum. Ex left all the extra work and effort and therapy sessions and on an on to me. And I believe this was the primary reason he handed over 80 custody to me without a whimper. He couldn’t be bothered with the added empathy and demands required for a special needs child. His loss.

        • I know what you mean – he often tells me that my daughter’s nut, egg and seed allergies are not that serious and mocks me for carrying epi pens around everywhere I go. That is, until it seems like we might need one – then it’s all “what kind of mother are you, don’t you have an epi?!?” Ain’t read a book, perused a website, nothing – but then that would mean admitting that he doesn’t know EVERYTHING, which we all know is impossible for them to admit.

          • Holy crap! That is life and death and he remains ignorant? That is medical neglect, in my opinion. Inexcusable.

        • When our 16 year old daughter was diagnosed with Epilepsy she was devastated at the change from healthy teen to teen with a chronic, life threatening condition for which there is no cure. I was devastated for her. It was traumatic. Every single time I mentioned how hard the situation was on her my ex said “I can’t feel bad for her because every time I think about it, I just picture the Oncology ward of the hospital and I realize how lucky she is.” Um…right. She needs to suck it up because other children have cancer. Okay, thanks Dad. I’m sure that will help. When our 21 year old went through a really bad patch in his life and sounded like he might harm himself, I called my ex in hysterics and told him what was going on and begged him to do something to help. His response: “Do you think I should call him or something?” My response: “Yes!” His response: “Now?” OMG. No wait until he does something irrevocable to tell him you support him. Completely useless. That was the last time I called him when one of the kids is in crisis.

          • My STBX said that our daughter should ‘just get over’ his lying, cheating and making me out to be the ‘bad’ guy to justify his moving in with his 22 y.o. coworker because he watched his mom have affair with a bus driver. STBX say: Did it hurt – yes – did he get over it – yes.

            So our daughter should just ‘get over it.’

            No empathy. No sensitivity.

      • Same thing here. I spackled over my cheatig ex-wife’s lack of emotional response (what clinicians call a “flat affect”) as a sign of (get ready for this) . . . maturity. As in, “Nothing phases her because she’s so incredibly well adjusted and so grounded.” HA! Where did I find that stupid idea? I few month after going NC it finally struck me that 25 years without ever being moved to tears by a movie, a song, or a family tragedy or triumph was just plain WEIRD. Reviewed the Hare test and figured out, oh, she’s just a run of the mill sociopath. No empathy means no sentimentality.

        Also, 25 years of being tagged as immature and dimwitted every time I showed an emotional reaction was a pretty thorough mind f*ck. Years later and I still trigger on that.

        • Yep just a run of the mill psycho …depressed always seems to lead back to the chump who was desperately trying to make everything OK …. You excuse every normal human reaction and event expectation is levelled down to practically zero . sounds like u lived with a long time NPD . welcome to the club

    • In AugustI mentioned no longer “doing the pick me dance.” Then when OW decided she wanted a second relationship at the end of the summer with a guy with a boat and a motorcycle, I saw the “I will not compete for you” in one of his texts to her. LMAO

    • I can copy Capricorn’s exact words. Sadly, the only bolt of lightening that changed someone’s character that I am aware of was the one that hit Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus.

      • And even that took time. Paul later said that he went to Arabia after his conversion, I think for a couple of years, the implication being that he needed to law low and get his head straight before he really began his mission.

        So even he didn’t have an overnight change of character! Just a conversion experience. And these are meaningless if they’re not followed up by action.

  • Pretty sure that if I ever sent my XH here, he would react with self-pity and “but ChumpLady is MEAN,” too.

    But, I firmly do not give a shit if he knows I post here or not, or what he thinks of the site. It is none of his business and if he ever decides to check it out, good for him. I hope he learns something about being a less-shitty person (probably not possible, but whatever).

    • Hi Rarity. Hope all is well with you and kids.

      Same here. If my exw came to CL, she would have outbursts that we are all just mere haters. The realism is she would be the one expressing the unjust hatred because it doesn’t line up with her entitlement.

      Since cheaters are able to suppress empathy they can never feel the deep pain of betrayal. So our reactions are the problem, not their actions.

      Somewhere along the line they all bought into the notion of what they think true love is. The sparky shiny love. The kind of that they are entitled to. This is what matters to them – how they feel NOW. This is how they justify their impulsivity.

      The fact is, love is a verb.

    • If I ever suggested to my ex that he should read here, he would just ignore me. He can barely muster the decency to respond to emails I send regarding financial issues he still hasn’t taken care of with full sentences. LOL.

    • I sent my then-STBX several of CL’s columns (including “PSA for Remorseless Cheaters”). He came here several times, most definitely recognized my moniker, and cautioned me about what I was writing because it could cause him to lose his job. NO! Sleeping with students is what might cause you to lose your job!

      He also concluded CL was “bitter.” I”m sure he stopped reading because he couldn’t bear to read such awful things about cheaters. boo hoo hoo

    • If my ex came here, he would soon be peppering me with emails asking me dumb clarification questions and wanting me to write him executive briefs to help him understand. Moron.

      • Hahaha, dumb clarification questions like:

        Cheating dickhead: What does compartmentalization mean?
        Dixie: That storage locker in your brain where you cram all your whores in.
        Cheating dickhead: Well butter my butt and call me a biscuit!

  • If I sent James Bond here? He would say, “this just shows how delusional you are that you think I am such a man as that.”

    He denies. Lies.

    Does anyone else have the obfuscating, confabulating cheater-type? The damn liar?

    • Back when I confronted him, yes. One of the best things about going minimal contact is that I have just tuned it all out. My general assumption is that everything out of his mouth, if not a flat out lie, is at least a very skewed version of reality.

    • Yes, QueenMother. X is of the poor little boy sad sausage type. His favorite phrase when I ever tried to discuss 30 years of cheating, was ‘a lot of things were claimed, that just aren’t true’. He knows our friends all came and told me about the OW (plural) after I split (thanks guys, for telling me now). And they only know a portion of the cheating! Sometimes I think he really believes if he denies it enough, it will disappear!

    • My first narc husband 25 years ago – I called it: Lie. Deny. Justify.

      Lie about what he’s doing. Deny doing anything. Or if no way out – justify. Justify with some ridiculous bull shit, blame shifting, crazy making…

      Now I am reliving the nightmare with husband number 2, but I understand it.

      I know the drill. They are all so much alike.

  • Ella-you referred to him as “your ex.” There are no more teachable moments left because he is someone else’s problem now.

    You are digging up the grave where your marriage is buried and trying to do a post mortem or worse-trying to raise the dead. Ever see Pet Sematary (Stephen King’s spelling, not mine) or Frankenstein? Yeah, that shit never works.

    Go no contact or grey rock if you have children. Don’t try to educate him. “It’s not that he doesn’t see, it’s that he disagrees.” That will never change.

    • Oh I agree, but I just sent this in cause I think it’s too funny and I was looking forward to a hilarious response by CL 🙂 lol

  • Dealing with a cheating spouse gives you a different outlook on life similar to how the thestrals work in Harry Potter. In Harry Potter, those that have seen death, can see the thestrals (a type of magical animal for those that have’t read the novels). Those that haven’t, can’t see them. We are now gifted with being able to spot liars, narcissists, and bullshit from a mile away. A quality we obviously weren’t as good at previously.

    People that haven’t been through infidelity hell really have no idea what it’s like. They can’t see the thestrals. It’s not their fault. And that’s why people will say stupid shit to us. But I don’t fault them for it, hell I had no idea what it was like until I found myself in the middle of it. I had a friend who had his wife cheat on him a few years before I found out about mine. In my mind, I felt bad for him but I wondered why he didn’t just leave right away. I also figured that would never happen to me……..but then I found out the hard way what he was really going through.

    So if a normal person with no experience has no idea what we’re dealing with, what chance does a cheating spouse have to glean anything out of this blog (or any other infidelity material for that matter)? Particularly if that blog is directing us to take action that is in our own best interests for once, and not theirs. That’s heresy to them.

    So if you haven’t been through cheating hell, then this blog is going to read like gibberish. If you’re a cheater whose life has been spent blaming others for your own actions, and thus all of your actions are justified, then you definitely have no chance of taking something positive from this place. If you’ve been unfortunate enough though to have been given the gift “to see thestrals,” this blog will speak right to you like you’ve been given some sort of Rosetta Stone.

    • Great insight, Blindside. I agree that unless you’ve been through infidelity hell, you just can’t comprehend it. I tried to help my sister a friend when it happened to them, but after it happened to me I realized I had no idea the depth of pain they were in. I even called and apologized to them for not truly understanding until it happened to me.

    • Great analogy, Blindside! Those who haven’t experienced this kind of betrayal really have no idea what level of hell it is for a chump. And cheaters don’t want to know because, the sadz. CL is indeed a Rosetta Stone leading us to knowledge and empowerment!

    • Not a Harry Potter fan, but your post makes me think that SeenTheThestrals is going to make a great CN handle for someone out there.

      LOVE LOVE LOVE your Rosetta Stone reference. The perfect analogy for what I get from this website.

    • Blindside-

      Well said. Very articulate. I agree whole-heartedly.

      Years back after DDay, when some friend or family member said, “just get over it” – a good response in a rhetorical fashion is of course is, “Has this ever happened to you?” This usually make them rethink their question without really insulting them. This does make them realize – a tiny bit – that maybe they don’t fully understand how deep the pain is.

      • My frequent saying now is ‘you don’t know……until you know’

        Only fellow chumps know what we are going through

    • Now, along with that same line of thinking that “one must experience being a chump to fully understand” – Let’s try and look at this from the cheaters perspective. Maybe we just don’t understand these poor sad sausage cheaters? NOT!!

      A *true* equivalency:

      When CHUMPS try to untangle the skein of fuckedupness – we come up with zero. It is an impossibility….

      same as….

      When CHEATERS try to untangle the skein of morality, if they even try – they come up with zero. It is an impossibility.

    • Never read Harry Potter, but love this analogy. Not only do we now see the issues around cheaters and identify their lying and duplicity. I have changed around people who I used to think of as friends. I realized that there were others out there who lied to me, used me and really didn’t want the kind of relationship you want with a friend. They are all gone from my life now and the people who are left are true friends. When I meet new people, I am friendly, but don’t take anyone on face value anymore. I take my time to get to know them and see how their actions fit with their words. I have taken a big step back from some people once their true colours start to show. I was never like this before – but feel much healthier because of it.

      • Okay, Finally Free, yes, now we Chumps have special vision, I agree. We see the turds around us. My problem is, I can’t just get rid of them. I still have to deal with them.

        Turds aree not only in the sacred institution of marriage. There are also “godly” people in the faith community, parents, and bosses. I can divorce the king of the disordered, but I can’t entirely escape the disordered.

        So I’m trying to figure out how to deal with the manipulative, the charming, the rageful, the sneaky, the lying. Say on a committee of four? One is a person who is lazy and blames, and is flattering and charming. Who doesn’t mind cussing me out on the phone and then hanging up.

        Okay, okay. This website is for leaving cheaters and getting a life, I get it. I guess I’m trying to apply what I’ve learned to similar situations.

        • Very True, Queen Mum!

          I just quit a job (rash, I know) because the charming person who hired me dissolved into a grifting, scheming, screaming narc within a month. He has too many flying monkeys, so I jumped before I was pushed. I said something that indicated I could see right through all his contradictions and spurious little rules that run his little world. Not in those words, but the upshot was “I am onto you, mate.” After that, he would only ever look at me with hatred.

          You make a great point, though, about having to deal with assholes other than your cheater. I think I am still allergic, but keeping boundaries and deal breakers in place is an important one-which I learned from Mr Fab. In the case of this boss, understanding anger and tantrums are not the same thing, he yelled in my face. I’d rather job hunt full time and eat ramen for a month than eat pbj and spend eight hours a day with this prick….I have but one life…..

          x-Meh

    • Omg, I love this (and HP) so much!
      Luna is one of my favorite characters, but lately I have been all about Dobby – I was joking with a friend that when my divorce is final, I am going to take a picture with a men’s sock and post “Dobby is free!” on my Facebook page.

      • Louisvilleflower, that made me laugh out loud. I love Harry Potter.

        Blindside, what a great analogy. No one, unless they have been through this horrendous experience, can understand the deep soul pain of infidelity.

    • Very well said,Blindside. So true. I had no clue what it was like before it hit me.
      But,even before discovering the cheating,I was miserable from the abuse from a NPD.

  • Exactly Blindside! Well said!

    Early on in my personal hell I had satan listed on my phone with various names and ringtones…once it was Asshole, ringtone was a duck quacking…on this particular day I had changed it to Lying Cheating Coward, ringtone was a dog barking. That day, for some reason, satan entered the house through the garage mandoor and called my cell…?? It was obvious I was home, my Jeep was in the garage, why was he calling me? Anyway, there laid my cell barking like a dog, and he entered the room and started growling at me, ‘If that is what you think of me, FUCK YOU!’ …I was too scared to point out to him that he behaved like a rabid dog to me, and just stood there ready to run if need be. He turned around and left the house. …narcissistic injury…yep.

    Throughout my ordeal I was constantly amazed at his ability to only care about himself. Like I had done something to deserve his abuse…I’m sure he is still this way.

    • JeepTess — your anecdote is HILARiOUS!!! I must have laughed out loud for a full minute — still laughing — oh goodness !!

      • 🙂 Thank you QueenMother! A good belly laugh always makes one’s day better!

        I can laugh about it now too, I am far away from that disordered life I once lived under his thumb 🙂 YA FOR ME!!!

        …the angry duck ringtone was also very appropriate… I bought my first grandson a stuffed duck that quacked angrily when his plump stomach was squeezed…grandson was about a year old at the time…I handed him the duck and showed him how to make it quack, as it commenced quacking, grandson’s eyes opened very wide and he looked at me with amazement and said, ‘Papa!?’ Omg! Truly it did sound like Papa! Papa’s favorite past time was (and probably still is) loudly complaining about anything and EVERYTHING and everyone. Hehehehehe!!!! Quack, quack, QUACK!

        • Love that JeepTess. I did similar – not with a ring tone though – but with a picture of a horses ass. Every-time she would call, I would giggle – then do the sign of the cross of course! LOL

          • Hehehehe SureChumped! Love the horse’s ass idea!!!!!

            I briefly considered using a picture of Linda Blair spewing pea soup for satan…hehehehehe!

            • Oh yeah the projectile spewing pea soup, haha, very fitting!

              You know whats funny though? Now, all these years later, I don’t even know what the whores number is. 🙂 I deleted it from my phone contacts some time ago and told her never to call me again.

          • LOL. I have two folks in my contact list with the same first name … the difference between how I have them labeled is revealing!! 🙂

            • Oooohh, 🙂 haha I get it.

              On a different level, I have 3 contacts with the same name. In my case the name is “Homewreckers”.

              Yes, the married AP’s of the whore, one of which is my sis’ ex husband. Just in case I want to have their phone numbers added to a mass spam list.

              • Hey, it’s only $3.99 with unlimited lettering on the “marble” base!! Father’s Day gift!!!

    • I changed mine to lying cheating Shithead & forgot about it. Imagine my surprise when I got a text from him regarding an alimony check — laughed my head off !

  • Hahahaha – I just loved this so much – totally made my morning. TY CL for bringing your witty hilarious take on fuckedupness and making me laugh every day. Rock on CN!!!

  • ‘this blog will speak right to you like you’ve been given some sort of Rosetta Stone.’

    Thank goodness for this saving grace…

  • All that seems to be missing from his missive is “Ninny ninny ha ha.”

    This is soooo timely. My divorce was final on December 22. I’m still learning to exhale from that whole nightmare. BUT – being the empath I am – I courteously gave Mr. Sparkles advanced notice that I would be expecting him to remove his remaining items from my house (pre-nup was upheld, yay!) by the end of the year.

    His response – “You’re a bitch. I can see now why no one would be in a relationship with you. It’s no wonder you never dated much before me.”

    My response – “You’re a whore. You can’t be alone. You roll from one vagina into another without a second thought. You’re already on your second relationship since the OW kicked your ass to the curb and you don’t see anything wrong with that. Get your shit and get out. No one feels sorry for you.”

    I have never been called a bitch (to my face!) in my whole life. I was shaking with shame as I went inside and locked the door. To have the one person in the whole world that I loved and promised my life to and bred with call me that – well, it did a number on my head for all of about 2 days thanks to Chump Lady and Chump Nation. (I read CL’s book daily.)

    And here is why… I have finally accepted that I’m a BITCH because:

    1. I got a lawyer and filed first. I didn’t try to negotiate with a disordered person.
    2. I went for everything… pre-nup and the financial agreement we signed when he moved out (and was still trying to maintain cake… get them to sign anything about money and get it notarized!)
    3. I trusted in God.
    4. I trusted in the judicial process (hardest part!)
    5. I told the truth to my son and my stepchildren about their Dad and why he left.
    6. I set a boundary and a deadline to remove his stuff or it was going to the curb and I kept it.
    7. I survived (I think that is what kills him the most).
    8. I’m still the sane parent.

    Was this my best holiday season ever? Yes and no. Divorce is final. Shit is gone from house. Still have to co-parent with this fuckwit for another 7 years. But 2017 is going to be 100x better because that part of my story is now behind me. I can see the Meh coming full-steam now.

    You want to call me a BITCH, Mr. Sparkles – bring it on. It is a badge of honor to me now.

      • Thanks, Tempest… coming from you that is mighty Chump praise. Your posts have given me so much insight through this mess. Thank you for being here and being so mighty!

    • ICan See

      Brilliant post. Just loved it. It’s so ‘safe’ somehow my life now because of people like you who show us newbies the way forward and give us courage.

      When do we stop being newbies I wonder? I’m six months after DDAY3. Divorce will be early this year. Whats after newbie? Something to do with how close you are to meh I suppose.

      I felt closer to meh today than I did to my ddays so maybe that’s progress of a sort. And I have slept well the last couple of weeks which helps.
      Someone yesterday mentioned the ‘mind movies’ and I realised that I hadn’t had them or remembered them for a while.

      Your cheater is an idiot.

      • Capricorn… the mind movies… yup, been there… and the “conversations” I wanted to have with him… with the OW… the email missives I wanted to write and send. You are definitely well along the road to Meh when you realize they are fewer and far between. I filled two journals with my ramblings in the first six months. I’m afraid to read them now lest they trigger me, but someday I will read them because they are my testimony. THIS. HAPPENED.

        You matter, Capricorn. Never forget that. You matter.

    • Mine calls me a bitch all the time. But I frequently call him an asshole. And most people prefer female dogs to assholes…but not my bi-guy!

      • LOL AIFD… mine like to post that he was Bi and his ratio of viewing T4M personal ads vs. W4M personal ads was significantly skewed 🙂

        It was hard to only accuse him of rolling from one to vagina to another when, for Mr. Sparkles, any hole will seem to do the trick. Sadz.

        I call him Ted Bundy in my phone… might be time for a new moniker!

    • You know what BITCH stands for, right?
      Boys
      I’m
      Taking
      Charge
      Here
      !!!

      I wear that word like an OBE from The Queen. 😀

      • Righteous Anger never felt so good (and scary!). My friends teased me by calling me a “force to be reckoned with”… it gave me strength to know that others close to me saw me as mighty long before I did. Now, I own it.

    • Oh yes ICanSeeTheMehComing!!!! We could be Chump sisters!!! I hate the word Bitch. I won’t even allow it as a joke. Ever. But, if this is the definition, then I stand shoulder to shoulder with you. Got the lawyer, set my boundaries, told my son the truth, trusted God, trusted the judicial system (lord yes that was THE hardest part), surviving and thriving!! I’m 2 years out from DDay and finally in my own home with my son. It was a GREAT Christmas with the traditions we love and enjoying a home of our own. (we were living with my sister last year). 2017 is gonna be awesome!

      Cheaters really do believe they are above…consequences. They believe they deserve empathy that they themselves lack the capacity to give. My ex cheater lives the Sad Sausage life. He got a glimpse of our (my son and I’s) happy excitement for Christmas when he dropped off my son on Christmas Eve. I felt, for a moment, that he realized what he gave up, gave away, lost forever. That vapor trail stayed in my house for a little while after he left. It was almost palpable. Yes, cheater, there are consequences. No matter who you are.

      • THIS^^^ I too believe they experience regret… but not for the same things we do. As my X was packing up, I think he regrets not getting a settlement… not getting the nice house… not getting to love of our son as I do… not getting cake. But, make no mistake, they don’t regret blowing up our marriages and families. Ever.

    • My soon to be ex screamed “bitch bitch bitch” to me too. I just looked at him. I’m not one to fight back. I filed first also. Best way to get him. NC and take 1/2 of it all.
      Glad to hear you trusted in the judicial system. I feel the same way.

  • One thing I’ve noticed about cheaters. Whenever they say the word “sorry”, the absolute last thing in the world that they mean is “sorry”.

    • This is so true. My ex says this all the time through teary eyes. lol I have no idea what she thinks sorry means.

    • Couldn’t be more true. My Ex could never EVER actually apologize to me. If he attempted it, he made it a joke…..disingenuous and like you said, quite the opposite of sorry.

      • This is my experience, too. She almost NEVER genuinely apologized, I maybe got 3-5 genuine, real apologies over a 15 year stretch. I excused it for so long, like it was just a personality quirk of hers. Nothing was ever her fault. There was always an excuse, always a reason, but of course she’d never do anything to intentionally hurt me or the kids.

        Whoops!

    • After I tossed skankboy out he called, texted, blah, blah “I’m sooooo sorry!” Yeah, right. You’re sorry because you got caught! I’m sorry I used the expensive heavy duty Hefty bags….should have used the cheap Dollar Store ones tossing your crap out. SOOOOOOOOORY!

  • PREACH, CL!

    This site IS a Rosetta Stone, this club no one ever wanted to join, this safe place to deal with one’s own toxic naiveté and to understand that they really, really do suck. Yep, terrible blog. The UBT should be registered as a weapon of mass instruction! How DARE anyone pull aside the velvet curtain! Keep your eyes on the floating Oz head…..Ella, please give this man no more oxygen.

    Chump Nation has taught me that I am not crazy, ethics exist for a reason, and that there is no shame at all in showing contempt for the contemptible. It’s actually brave and liberating to do so.

    I am ph neutral about narcs now (just quit a job because boss was a toxic angry baby man). I see them sooner, and I gtfo sooner. Yep, costing me dearly and I am shit scared, but I have one precious life and I will not spend a single jot of time in the company of entitled, disordered or sociopathic fuckwits.

    As to Mr Fab, he pulled this shit-“Where’s my sympathy? Where’s my respect?” I informed him that sympathy can be found in any dictionary, between shit and syphilis, and to be respected, one must first be respectable. Since then, pretty much crickets….unless I ask for $ for Kiddo to apply for college. Then I am the worst parent in the World, a schemer on par with Alexis Carrington, Smaug-like in my cave of riches, LOL. Nine months til Kiddo is 18.

    Happy Tuesday, and Love to all Chump Nation.
    Meh

    • Mehphista, “I informed him that sympathy can be found in any dictionary, between shit and syphilis..”

      Brilliant! I am definitely going to borrow that (with an appropriate citation to you, of course).

      • No need for citation, I heard it in a bar somewhere….

        As to Hannibal, pray, dear sprite, engage ye not in a battle of wits with the unarm’d.

        • No worries–I’m strictly NC with Hannibal.

          Besides, he doesn’t need sympathy! Now that he has shed sarcastic, overworked, non-adoring, messy Tempest, his life is RAINBOWS and SPARKLES–new book, world travel, GF 20 years younger (never mind she just had to go on antidepressants to deal with him), million dollar mansion overlooking the lake. Paradise, I tell you, paradise.

    • Mehphista, man this made me laugh, I didn’t know there were so many sides to you, ” Then I am the worst parent in the World, a schemer on par with Alexis Carrington, Smaug-like in my cave of riches, LOL.”

  • I would never show my cheater this blog. They will never understand or see themselves in this. I did cut and paste the post about comparing the cheater to someone who would push you down a flight of stairs. And guess what? She disagreed with the concept! They dont want to see themselves for what they truly are. Sending them here will not change them.

    • And they will simply attack, or worse – learn hints and tips for screwing up subsequent docile partners.

      No, this is a safe space for genuine victims. No one here needs any more hassle.

      And anyway – what happened to No Contact?

  • Ella,

    Your Ex’s response to CL is one of the go to responses for all disordered people – Who I am and What I do is not the problem. Your response to and opinion of what I do is the REAL issue that needs addressing. They are impervious to change because THEY are not the problem. If they could see their thinking or behavior as the problem, they wouldn’t cheat. They conflate flaws with character defects.

    Once I fully accepted not only who my EX is, but what he is, even if I was tempted to refer him to something that might have given him some insight, that sane voice inside me spoke up and said, “Have you lost your fucking mind? Ignore him! He has no ability to have any authentic insight or to be self-aware.” These folks are impervious to any real change. Their thinking is different, their values are different. Understanding that is the first step, accepting it is the second step.

    • Hardest step is to understand a couple of things. They are not like us. And their actions had zero to do with us. Took me quite a while to understand I was a bystander in all of this. She was not who I thought she was…… Nothing she did was to me or about me. We are not real people in their world.

  • Long live CL and CN … Bitches all and proud of it!! Yes, I come here daily to embrace my Inner Bitch!!! A lifetime of burying my needs, wishes, and priorities did not serve me well. My daily dose of chumplady has schooled me in the power of salty language. Certain members here (you know who you are!!!) have forever altered my vocabulary and my comfort with sprinkling certain expressions liberally in my writing!! And when one slips out in conversation, oh my my, one must turn one’s head, blush, and raise that fan to cover one’s glee!! Fiddle dee dee, indeed!!

    • Thank you for your comment. Early on in my separation days (now almost 6 years ago), my X called me a “bitch” and some other names. I was so shocked by this I think I just shut down at the time and felt horrible. Now, I wish I had the knowledge I have now and I would have answered “Yes, I’m a bitch and proud of it!!!” My how life has changed.

  • The response from Ella’s ex screams ‘Narcissist!’

    That being said, back on D-Day #1 almost three years ago, I would have been grateful to hear my cheater now-STBX say, ‘I’m sorry,’ or ‘I feel self-loathing.’ My STBX instead regularly tells me through text and email that I (Chump) should feel self-loathing and straighten myself out for everyone’s welfare. I try to filter out everything (90%) that doesn’t have to be addressed for the Court, the kids, or financial security. Reading through my STBX’s messages is a lot like looking for one’a lost car keys in a messy pile of dirty underwear at a bargain basement clearance sale–One has to touch a lot of undesirable substances to get what is needed.

  • The complaint from Ella’s cheater about CL’s blog immediately reminded me of the answer given by a young man to the press when he and his accomplice were arrested last week for beating two transvestites and then beating TO DEATH an elderly street vendor, the only passerby who tried to help the transvestites. To the question “Are you sorry for what you did and what would you tell the dead man’s family?” he answered: “Well, the vendor attacked me, but of course I’m sorry and I’d like his family to know that I am not a bad person.”

    The beatings were filmed by the security cameras of a very busy subway station in São Paulo city, being that subway security DID NOT call the police.

    In an interview to the BBC, Brazilian psychoanalyst Christian Dunker explains that “the vendor died because he wouldn’t keep quiet, he transgressed against our cowardly way of existing.”

    “People do nothing beyond what is expected of them” says Dunker, “and keep silent in situations of injustice. In the face of violence, we do not talk. This is a feature of all systems that accelerate violence: in corporations, in the police, in communities. In all these places there is the culture of silence. And when someone breaks the law of silence he has to pay, as in the case of the vendor”.

    Dunker also said: “… the attitude of the petty corrupt is to constantly repeat ‘there is someone who should be in charge of this problem.’ and tries to transfer his personal responsibility to the system.

    I would add what a fellow chump wrote here, I think it was Capricorn, that scared people are mean. These young men are probably scared of their sexuality and would scan the city to get rid of people who scare them. CL’s decoding will certainly scare cheaters and brings out all the meanness in them. I think this is a great service so we can really stay clear of them, dissolve unicorns and get to Meh.
    And like Tempest, I would LOVE to poke the afflicted …. But really, they are too stupid, they “are good persons”

  • I’m glad that I never had the urge to show Fuckwit any of Chump Lady’s blog posts. I credit her with helping me to finally decide to lawyer up. I found this website in mid-May (’16) and filed June (’16).

    I do remember laying on my bed reading CL for the first time and laying there chuckling. Keep in mind I had not laughed much at all since Jan. (’16) when all hell broke loose. Instead I’d been dealing with the most egregious disclosure one could imagine, barely functioning with my job, had isolated myself from friends and family and had been just plain miserable as I watched Fuckwit Supreme do a half-assed recovery effort.

    I think he even asked “what are you laughing at” and I said “nothing”.

  • Is it me or is it ironically hilarious that cheaters, so incapable of showing empathy for their significant others, feel so entitled to empathy themselves? Proving they know exactly what it is and how it feels, they just can’t be bothered to demonstrate it. But damn that CL, she’s so mean!

    I think most of us are here because we got real tired of showing empathy to people who downright refused to give us any. And hey, chumps need laughs too. When I found Chump Nation I was literally staring at the wall contemplating suicide every night. Then I started belly-laughing, in a way that almost cracked my face wide open. It gave me the strength to go on, literally. It made me feel less crazy, then downright sane. Now I’m actually happy most days.

    So if that’s what “mean” does then sign me up. What I think pisses cheaters off about this site is that it isn’t about them. It’s about focusing empathy in a different direction–toward chumps. (Oh, and it advocates leaving your sorry asses, too.) In other words, it benefits them not at all.

    • K, I’m glad that CL and CN has helped you so much. That’s great. When I finally found CL’s blog, I finally found my people. I had been reading so many of the usual sites that said that I needed to be more “understanding” toward the cheater. I hated that with a passion. I was betrayed, then I felt betrayed again by those other websites. I thought I was going crazy because in my heart I knew all of that was sooooo wrong. Then I found this site, the snark, the real life feelings, the cussing. It was what I needed to start thinking about me and my importance. Chumps are important!!!!

      • Flutterby, same. The straight talk and the swearing like sailors, I find it all so empowering. I knew it was what I needed. Thank god it’s here! Whenever I feel off track I come here to stay strong and then I’m less wobbly. Thanks for the kind response :))

    • Pretty sure my ex to be found my extra copy of CN book. He referred to himself as a Chump. Lol.
      First time I read the book – oh my – I felt like not so crazy and alone! TY CN!!!! Mighty!

  • Wow, Tracy! The UBT has had full-service, tuning and oil change! This was fantastic. Another one to add to my gratitude list: I am thankful for the bullshit cheaters come up with so the UBT has more material to keep me LMAO.

  • What those narcissists never realize is that a BIG part of being a good person is accepting consequences for one’s actions. Someone who really wants to be a good person would accept the criticism and judgment of his/her misdeeds as truthful and fair. “It is hard for me to read these things, but I accept that I deserve to have harsh things said about me. In fact, I deserve a lot worse for what I did. I will try to take it to heart and remember it.” THAT would be the response of someone who wants to be a good person.

    One of the greatest things CL ever said that I think about often is how the cheater (being the one who started this whole clusterfuck) should not make his or her pain a priority over the pain of the chump and the kids. Cheaters almost never manage even that much perspective. They fully expect that the spouse they cheated will comfort them, smooth it over, pay the bills, and stick around trying harder than ever… or at least sit quietly by until the Cheater decides to come back.

    • Carol, “comfort” the cheater, they are all the same huh. x left me a 2 am voicemail wanting me to comfort him because his ap left him for her husband. At the end he says, I don’t even know why I TRY, you don’t even care. They are crazy.

  • Hi, Tracy.

    I haven’t commented for a while, but I wanted to thank you for Chump Lady. The no-nonsense, ok-to-be-angry, brutal honesty is so, so, so helpful to me, still.

    My life is good now. The underlying sadness that comes from years of being lied to (even when I didn’t KNOW know) is gone. Woo hoo!!

    Thanks.

    JMH

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