Hi Chump Lady,
I happened upon your website and it seems to contain a lot of good advice for certain circumstances. But there are others, I think, where the main advice of “just leave” doesn’t apply.
See, I’m a cheater and never expected I would be. I married my near perfect wife, a wonderful human being who is a far better person than I, not realising how much I would miss sex were it absent.
I love sex, and tend to treat it as an Olympic sport. I love people, especially the ones I’m attracted to, and enjoy being intimate with them in every way possible. I was honest about all this to my wife, and she understood, but wasn’t interested in an open relationship. I loved her so much I didn’t mind, figuring as long as we had some sort of sex that would provide sufficient satisfaction.
And it did, until we had kids. Her depression and low self esteem just blew up after that. Having twins, we didn’t have time for much else — it’s a nightmare of exhaustion and sleep deprivation, especially since we both work full time. We grew apart, becoming more work partners than romantic partners.
I’m not complaining, just informing. Life is hard, and for ages I just thought we didn’t have time or energy to be romantic in any way. Then we started to regain some of that time and energy and I tried and tried and tried again, but to no avail. Life is near perfect except for the missing sex. My wife has received treatment for her PND, we’ve both gone to relationship counselling, but she flatly refuses to go to sex therapy. Maybe her priorities are spot on.
But I can’t live like this — and yet I don’t want to leave. I love and care about this person more than any other. I just need to also have sex.
So I’ve occasionally been seeing prostitutes — I’ve even become friends with a couple, since I like people and don’t like entirely meaningless sex.
My point is, this is keeping me going while I continue to try to help my wife with her problems, and our problems, and hopefully one day even the lack of sex problem.
But one thing I don’t think, is that we need to destroy our marriage because I am temporarily attending to a basic biological need.
Anyway, just a thought.
Thanks for your time,
Withheld
Dear Withheld,
It would be so easy to just answer your letter with — “Just a thought, you’re scum.” But I feel compelled — because I love bullshit and tend to treat it as an Olympic sport — to thoroughly and painstakingly explain why you’re an asshole.
I’m not complaining, I’m just informing. Consider it a public service.
Your poor “near perfect” wife. So, so close to perfection except for the refusal to grant you an open marriage. So close to perfection except for her post-partum depression with infant twins and a full-time job. So close to perfection except she’ll go to doctors and therapists, but just not a sex therapist.
You poor man, why of COURSE you had to see prostitutes. Excuse me, friends. Who you pay.
But one thing I don’t think, is that we need to destroy our marriage because I am temporarily attending to a basic biological need.
How nice of you to speak in the royal “we” about a unilateral decision YOU made to have sex outside your marriage. “We” didn’t destroy the marriage. YOU are destroying it. The hooker thing maybe “temporary”, but your entitlement is all-encompassing. You feel entitled to Olympic sex. (WTF does that mean anyway? Are there pole-vaulters? Do you get judged by Russians?) You feel entitled to a perfect wife. (Near perfect isn’t cutting it.) You feel entitled to infants who sleep through the night and aren’t exhausting. (Have you MET any small children who aren’t exhausting? Did you order some lovely sanitized children who sleep in perfect 10-hour increments from the Lillian Vernon catalog and are now disappointed in your purchase?)
Your expectations are RIDICULOUS. No wonder your wife has “low self esteem.” I’m surprised she’s not throwing herself off highway bridge spans.
I’m sorry. I know I’m supposed to feel great wells of sympathy for your sexless marriage and your basic biological needs. However, you were pretty sketchy on the details there, Withheld. Like, is it a total loss of sex, or just not enough sex? Is it vanilla sex when you want Olympic sex? Is it sex with one near perfect wife when you want lots of attractive people to be “intimate with in every way possible”? You don’t say.
If sex is that important to you — and it sounds like it is — then divorce your wife and those exhausting, sleepless children — and be true to your vapid principles. At least then your wife would have an honest choice — be Olympically sexy or let you fuck people on the side and risk her health. Which you’re doing now, without her consent.
Oh I know you wanted me to believe in your Magic Boner and how important it is. That I would shudder at the thought of your deprivation and suffering. And how decent and well-meaning you are to have sex with professionals (who may be trafficked, and/or carrying STDs) and not disrespect your wife with an actual AFFAIR. (That’s quite a thin line you walk there. The sex cannot be meaningless, but it can’t be significant either.)
Withheld, I’m sorry you don’t get a Magic Boner and a perfect wife. You can follow your Magic Boner, make it a life-long quest, and best of luck with that. I hope your many hours of happy ejaculate were worth it when you’re old and alone with your colostomy bag. Go ahead and trade a loving, faithful, near perfect wife who destroyed her body to give you two babies for your Magic Boner. Don’t invest. Be about YOU. Flit from one attractive person to the next when your wife appliance is malfunctioning. Heck, chuck this wife appliance and get a new wife appliance every few years.
Life is hard, and for ages I just thought we didn’t have time or energy to be romantic in any way.
How much time do your hookers take? How much do they cost? Here’s a crazy thought — why don’t you take that TIME and that ENERGY that you are investing ELSEWHERE and invest it in your FAMILY. Like, pick up the fucking slack. Wake up with a crying baby. Hire a sitter. Romance your wife. Empty the dishwasher.
Your life isn’t “hard,” dude. Being a Syrian refugee is hard. Having cancer is hard. Being a vulnerable, young mother when your husband is out fucking prostitutes is HARD. Your problem is you’re a selfish fucker who puts himself above his wife and children’s health and welfare.
If your wife was writing to me? You’re right, I wouldn’t say “just leave.” I’d say RUN.
OK. That was perfect. Have a good day.
Totes! “WTF does that mean anyway? Are there pole-vaulters? Do you get judged by Russians?” Snorted right out loud, there. 🙂
Me too Amiisfree. Laugh out loud funny. You are the best Chumplady.
I’m guessing it means he comes first and his wife finishes second, if you follow my meaning.
If she comes at all. With the Olympian….guessing she doesn’t even place in that race. (Ask me how I know)
or she never crosses the finish line ; ).
That means there is enough foreplay that it doesn’t squeak like a balloon when he tries to penetrate. Trust me, you don’t want to know how I know.
Awesome response. In. Every. Way. I hate this guy who thinks he’s great. Hello? You are buying sex and your wife has no idea. Who would want to stay with you?
Olympic Gold response.
What an syphilitc entitled dick. He thinks he made friends with a couple of prostitutes. Prostitutes don’t have friends. They have clients.
How I love it when these self absorbed fucks think they are so special that the prostitute views them as a “friend”. I have heard this from former BIL. I asked him if he pays her after they have their “friendly” drinks and discuss politics. He got angry at me for suggesting she was there only for the $$. Why, she VALUED his company. But, alas, yes, he did pay her. After all, she’s a working girl don’t cha know.
This guys wife’s depression will leave with him. God, I wish I knew her name. I would send her today’s post. Great job calling this mother fucker out on his bullshit, CL. Like Tempest said, “Olympic Gold”.
Jeez, CalamityJane–don’t you realize that ANY woman would just die to be in the company of former BIL? His magnificence is a chick-magnet, and the prostitutes merely desire his conversation and warmth; getting paid for blowing him is an extra bonus.
Reality check????love it!
Agreed! Favorite response by far! Cheers!
Maybe his wife doesn’t want sex with him because he sucks at that too. Looser man, husband, father is the biggest cause of dry vagina.
The prostitutes are also someones daughter, wtf kind of man supports that shit. Scum bag for sure
My words are inadequate to express the brutal brilliance of this response.
My girl kills it- every.single.time.
Withheld, pry yourself off your current meth head hooker that probably robs you when you stumble to the bathroom, I meant friend, head straight to the nearest tattoo parlor and have this put on your inner thigh, black bold font:
“I hope your many hours of happy ejaculate were worth it when you’re old and alone with your colostomy bag.”
” But I feel compelled — because I love bullshit and tend to treat it as an Olympic sport — to thoroughly and painstakingly explain why you’re an asshole.”
I’m going to be in a great mood the rest of the day.
The fact that LovedAJackass has nothing to add is a testament to this column’s perfection.
Agreed
I don’t think Witheld will be able to understand. I think there was far too much logic and compassion, reason and clear thinking going on there. I think he will be quite put out that you don’t see his magnificence and sheer selflessness. I think he will just put it down to less special people just not getting what it is to be such a truly special soul.
Witheld probably speaks of himself in the third person and believes he is quite the bees knees.
I think he may feel a slight ruffle at the tips of his hair as all your understanding and wisdom rushes over the top of his head.
He’ll spend the rest of his day thinking about hot pockets and his magic boner and suddenly realise that what you meant is, that it really is special and he should continue what he is doing because you said so.
Update. Witheld was quite surprised to find himself after the end of his life in a very very hot burning kind of place which soon turns very very cold because Dante seemed to know a lot about treachery and didn’t much like people who were. Good luck Withheld. Brrrrrr
I hope his wife finds out and she, together with the consequences of his deplorable actions, make his life a living hell while he’s still here!
Lawyers would be particularly helpful with this.
“I don’t think Witheld will be able to understand. I think there was far too much logic and compassion, reason and clear thinking going on there.”
Exactly, Capricorn, and the second reason I don’t send this column to my X. The first? NC. The third? I no longer give a damn.
Maybe I’ll send Dr. Crazy’s bio to Withheld so he can get a glimpse of his glorious future at age 60: 6 ex-wives and fiancées and a couple of f’d up children in addition to the prostitutes. And a broken dick.
But somehow I still don’t think he’d get it.
He’s a narcissist. They don’t “understand” others. They suck kibbles out of them.
Absolutely, Tempest. He wouldn’t get, he doesn’t care anyway and now, nor do I.
I saw something recently that symbolically showed just how empty he is. That is kind of sad, but no longer my problem. Dealing with all the fallouts of his problem is my problem.
Withheld did get one thing right — his wife is indeed a far better person than he.
Glimmer of honesty amid the bullshit, or deluded impression management?
You decide.
Impression management.
Impression management
Right?!! Poor poor sausage. Now I’m just gonna assume he’s uh “disordered” because how could you read Chumplady and ASSUME that she would absolve you of your sins?!! His bullshittery is strong. Gives great insight into the cheaters mind. Let’s all send some positive cosmic energy to his victim/wife.
Ooooh, yeah, that alone show’s what a special snowflake he thinks he is, and how amazingly convincing! ‘I am SO good I will convince CL to make an exception for me! Next step, to explain to the IRS why I don’t need to pay taxes ….’
Laughing so hard!
Impression management!
Withheld feels like a mental twin brother to my X… After finding out about his mistress, I learned that I was in a sexless marriage… Defined by my then-husband as only getting it on 1-2/week.
So glad I divorced him!
We have triplets here, except Hannibal was having sex with me 3-4, count em 3-4, times per week during his affair with gradwhore. But it wasn’t “Olympic” enough (may have had something to do with my full time job + 95% of the parenting. Oh, and I stopped feeling warmly about him because of how he treated me during the affair. Actually thought to myself during sex once during the affair/devalue, “Why am I doing this? I don’t even like him.”)
Yes, the distance the affair causes (devaluation) makes the marriage worse because of (but before you even discover) the cheating. I thought the lack of intimacy and connection was just “a rough patch” we were going through and we still had sex. But not enough for him who now says our marriage was in trouble. That was news to me! Well, it’s not in trouble anymore. It’s over.
The marriage is over because of his betrayal. He didn’t expect that. Withheld won’t either. They can’t imagine you would ever leave their awesomeness. They underestimate everyone.
i also thought the lack of intimacy and connection was just a rough patch. i kept waiting for my husband to give me more time and attention.. .. .. unbeknownst to me he was too busy giving his time and attention (and money) to the neighborhood hood rat troll whore. .. .. but she “understands” him (and his need for drugs and alcohol) while boring old wife wanted him to change (you know to stop drinking before it killed him) and complained a lot (because apparently i was not suppose to get mad that he was staying out all night, drinking and god knows what, not paying bills or helping feed/clothe our children, hiding and sneaking around and lying but how dare i complain).. …
i also had many times in my marriage where i was not getting enough sex from HIM.. .. did i run out an supplement with the first easy guy that said yes? did i pay a prostitute to satisfy my basic biological need? HELL NO.. … i actually talked to my husband and explained how i wanted more sex from him. asked him if there was something bothering him or if he was over working.. … had a conversations with him about fixing our sex life.. .. i tried to make life more relaxing for HIM.. .. so he would be more in the mood later (which actually entitled letting him slack off on everything else, poor baby).. ..
even if my husband were somehow unable to get it up anymore and i never had sex again. there would be no chance of me going outside the marriage for sex… .. .. because to me a marriage is MORE THEN JUST sex.. .. i was grateful for the things he did for me, the conversations, the good times. the help with the children, the memories. the stable solid family unit.. .. and my children having both mom and dad in their lives everyday.. .. those things mean so much for to me then getting a nut off (so to speak)..
i guess it is were you put your priorities.. .. my ex put his on drinking.. . i put mine on family and my children.. .. huh.. this guy puts his on his dick. .. i wish i could tell his wife who is doing all this work, giving him children and thinking they have a future while all he is thinking is how to pay his friends for a couple of hours of meaningless sex. (ya, i know he wrote it was not meaningless but really how close can you be to a prostitute?)
Sending prayers to his wife and children.
Mrs. Vain, well put. Can you even imagine what meaning-FULL sex with a prostitute would be? Maybe he quotes Proust or sculpts nude figurines during a blow-job. What an a-hole.
Agreed, Mrs. Vain. I wasn’t always getting enough, or even good quality sex or affection. Mostly I got bs, or ignored until he felt like it. Way to turn me on! Jerk…
NWHI, Yes! I wouldn’t have left my ex. He’d convinced me if his awesomeness. He played me perfectly. Oh independent, strong, and loyal? He’d ask all sorts of questions about my life in the beginning. Thought he was soo interested in me.
Yes, me too. He wasn’t in the ‘mood’, I was not being sexy like before…distance between us was my fault – even though I worked daily to please/be close. Played me like a world class violinists.
This makes my head spin. They way they withhold effort, love, affection- then say it’s you who isn’t in to sex. I admit his manipulation skills were world class- like air he needed to be ‘playing people’. He’s probably enjoying his day with working out, looking at himself, sexting 10 girls, having sex with a few, bad mouthing me, sleep, repeat. That is an Olympic skill- to be that hollow.
Same here CTT9thD. He withheld effort, kindness, he withheld sleeping in the same bed! But the letter could have been written by the traitor except he demanded a menage a trois with his ex, based on my “asexuality” (which is a total fiction, we were having sex 2-3 times a week despite my on going pain from fibroids, just not the kind the “ex” offers, I guess). He didn’t want prostitutes, he said so, because it would be too meaningless. It had to be his “ex” (who I now realise was never really his ex).It made my head spin so much that I agreed to prostitutes. Anything to save our family. NO! He wanted the ex, and I was a bitch and not a team player for not agreeing to it. He did it anyway, while I was looking after their son, he had lied to me about going away to see his older sons. But I would be a fool to really believe that it was the first time.
I am the villain of this story, it’s all my fault because I am not this and not that and I emasculated him by not keeping a tidy garden and lawn so the sad sausage didn’t have any friends.
Like you CTT(thD, I didn’t leave…
He and the whore are Olympic arseholes.
Kiwi, I also agreed on a lot of stuff post DDay to save my family. “Save my marriage” was my slogan for a while and he enjoyed the pick me dance until his contempt kicked in again. We think by changing ourselves and responding to their needs we’ll satisfy their needs and all will be happy again. But their needs are not “black and white normal” needs. Theirs are some sort of higher needs, too neo-spiritual for down to earth folks like us to understand. One day, when I was defending my “save my marriage and family” approach with my friends, a friend noted “But you DON’T HAVE A FAMILY TO SAVE!”
That’s when it dawned on me. She was right. I never had. Even in the best of my days. He was on his own pushing his agenda always.
Better off now without him.
I think my asshole thought he has integrity because he was being “faithful”‘to his affair partner and shunning his wife.
I was having Olympic sex every day (some times many times a day) as an extreme form of pick-me dancing. The “Acts” involved any and all degrading things you can imagine and many that you cannot. I had frequent bruises. I didn’t want any of that — but I pretended in an effort to get my 25-year husband to stop fucking other women.
It made no difference – he just felt more contempt for me and I hated myself. Thank God that nightmare is over.
Me too….during wreckonciliation and my pick me dance I did the unimaginable. But before our marriage became sexless after my boy was born because it was easier for him to dump it all on me being “not interested, tired and entirely focused on our child” while he was indignant at home and happy outside of it. Post DDay when he said our sex life sucked, I danced and danced and did all imaginable and unimaginable pretending I liked the stuff I discovered he was hooked to for a long time. I hated myself for going against myself but was happy when I saw excitement in his eyes. I thought, let me do this dance and I will have my husband back. If I do all he wants he won’t have any reason to look at others. That only lasted for 2 months (thankfully). You can give them sex in all its variety but you cannot become 2 persons, 3 persons, 36 persons, 480 persons. This is the variety they want. A collection. Trophies.
Fuck off. You don’t have a privilege of calling a ” near perfect” me as your wife. Enjoy the next round of Olympics.
Same here. Sex 3-4 times a week. And it wasn’t what you would call boring either. I actually think that is one of the reasons he stuck around. How fucked up is that? He had no reason to go elsewhere except that he is either addicted to sex with younger women or he is mentally disordered. Not my problem anymore…
And he also said NUMEROUS times, I don’t deserve you. 1. Total impression management 2. Manipulation to get me to feel sorry for him 3. Hell no, he doesn’t deserve me
I hear you Tempest. 3-4 good times each week needed supplementing with hookers, local hook-ups and that OR nurse who “stops by our house to make coffee.” Maybe that’s what Olympic sex means!
You know, I think they focus more on quantity than quality when they’re so obsessed with Olympic sex. You just become an object, or an outlet for them. It’s empty.
Olympic Sex? That’s one to add to the Cheater’s (cluster b) hand book. Are there illustrations in that book?
Lol, Geode. Your X had a nurse stop by to “make coffee”?? Is that urban lingo for blow jobs?
Same! We were in a sexless marriage and I am an asexual. Because it doesn’t make me endlessly horny to be ignored for porn and Facebook. Apparently that makes me a bad wife and less worthy of being loved than a fucking whore. Somehow it’s my fault that when he spent hours looking at porn then rolled over and stuck my hand down his pants I felt bad about myself. It’s my fault that I felt like a hole to be used instead of a human being to be loved and thought about and treated like I was pretty and sexy and someone he wanted to be with. Why couldn’t I tell that he loved me when all he could do was grab a boob and expect me to swoon? All these fuckers had to do was pay 1/8 as much attention to their wives as they do to Facebook or porn or even their own dicks and they could have everything in the world.
Your way with words Shelby, love it! I relate.
Exactly! I get pretty hot for guys who treat me with love and respect! Him…Not so much. In fact, I’m ashamed to admit that I’m in lust with my mechanic this minute!!! No joke; any guy who does for me what he wouldn’t turns me on. And I’m paying this guy…Maybe he’s my whore….Ewwww, now I feel disrespectful.
This made me laugh, I am having to retrain my brain that not all men are going to treat me with the emotional absence that Cheater did. It is quite a turn on when some one is nice to you.
I know, and it makes me feel pathetic, like a little puppy wagging her tail because someone was actually kind and respectful, even caring. Men who don’t want a thing from me or purport to “love” me. Glad I’m not alone.
+1 Merry Meh-hem! I am like a little puppy too anytime someone is nice to me now. Strange men are soooo nice compared to the traitor.
The boob grab. Did we have the same husband?
I’m pretty sure that all lazy husbands go for that. I get it. Boobs are fun. I even on occasion grab ahold of one of my own, its bouncy and soft and I have a nice rack, but the boob grab and then that look ? like somehow that is supposed to get me all fired up. After he ignores me for his phone and rolls his eyes when I try to talk. This kinda feels like the porn thing again. Sure when you get paid to fuck and pretend that blowjobs make you multiple orgasm the boob grab and that look probably ARE enough to get you moaning and screaming. But for a real human your husband looking at porn then expecting you to want his porn fueled magical boner isn’t very realistic!
OMG… this is awesome Shelby!!!
The boob grab! That was totally my ex’s M.O. I guess that I was supposed to get really turned on by that and want to have sex with him right then and there! I always joked that he must have been confused about what breasts really are; he seemed to think that they were some sort of “on” switch that would make me instantly desire him if he just grabbed them.
I find it so ironic that many of us were married to people who were totally lazy about foreplay/sex, but we weren’t the ones who cheated. Gosh, I hope that the OWife is looking forward to all that boob grabbing! They’ve been married for 3.5 years now, so it’s probably going to start happening within the next year or so… 😀
LOL Shelby! That’s the damage porn is doing to our sex lives. What a disaster for women that so many men watch that stuff non-stop and expect women to function like this!
I have to agree. I don’t generally HATE porn. Some of it is disgusting I know some of it is coerced and exploitative but I do know some people (probably the damaged kind) enjoy that as a job. BUT it’s the over saturation in our culture. Having a little fun and occasionally watching is one thing but men (and some women too) have become too reliant on porn. It changes the brain and its toxic to believe that porn is reality. My STBX would watch it or various forms of non-video porn i.e. Tumblr, dirty GIFs, lingerie models etc. when he was bored. And then he’d go masturbate in the bathroom “because it was easier than having to get you warmed up”. Well maybe if he stopped staring at porn all fucking day and acted like a man and treated me with a little kindness or said “I look at porn sometimes but I like you so much more!” then I would have given him all the sex he wanted. Apparently the idea that his attitutde and mood and constant porn watching could and would turn me off of him is ludicrous. According to him I don’t like or want or need sex or physical intimacy because you either have sexual desire or you don’t. And when you DO have it you HAVE to have it with someone you love. It’s not conscious it just is, nothing can effect it. It just IS. Well not when your person doesn’t treat you like you’re the one that they want. I’m sorry your porn watching made me feel inadequate and bad about myself. I didn’t purposely withhold sex as a punishment but when I didn’t feel loved my libido went into hiding. We did not have a sexless marriage. We had sex but apparently I didn’t love him because I wasn’t frantically tearing his clothes off. Sorry. I loved him and did my best. All he needed to do was speak honestly and clearly to me and be a tiny bit kind instead of resentful. ? It’s too late now. The marriage issues are a moot point once he fucked that whore.
Thanks for your post. My STBX ducks like a teenager. As far as he was concerned, my body consisted of a mouth, tits and a twat. I told him many times what I liked. He just didn’t do it. For years I had to use a bullet vibrator to get wet enough for sex.
I’m mid-50’s and thought that my sex drive was gone. My ON/GYN told me I’d need lubrication for sex.
Guess what? My sex drive is alive and well. My body still responds. I don’t need lubrication. I can orgasm many times. I just needed to be with a man WHO GIVES A DAMN about my wants and desires. Adult sex — luxurious, playful, erotic, hot, sweet.
I regret that I lost all those years of good sex. I realize that being with this man had arrested my sexual development as well.
Hear, hear, Giddy Eagle! My jerk did all of the same and killed my sex drive, then cruelly mocked me during cancer treatment because of what the chemo did to my ability to perform. I’m physically healed now…And he’s gone! Buh-bye! I never have to feel bad or pretend for him again. Next!
Deluded image management.
Withheld, your real name is Perfect Cheater. Straight out of the dysfunctional cheater mold.
What is particularly hilarious about this letter is that the writer assumes he is such an amazing sex stud he needs a host of partners. The reality is, his wife was more likely so bored with sex with him she could take it or leave it.
Anyone telling themselves that sex with a prostitute is in any way “Olympic” or magical is a joke and a liar. Those needing to get money via prostitution are either trafficked (which is absolutely inhumane) or drug addicts (who need help rather than further abuse). He is having sex with vulnerable women – either by their plight as sex slave workers or due to their mental health/addiction status. Not really the sex that dreams are made of.
As Chump Lady pointed out – he doesn’t even say what the problem with sex was or what he did to fix it. From his letter regarding his ‘perfect wife’ one can conclude she was doing 99% of all the parenting, in addition to cooking and cleaning after a hard day of work and he was sitting around watching porn until she fell in bed at night, exhausted. He then sat there upset should wouldn’t do some of the faked for the camera porn sex he had been jacking off to instead of actually helping her with raising the kids or keeping the house.
Ask me how I know this scenario so well. My ‘porn/sex addict’ husband was doing the same thing, until I found out about it. Then he became the ultimate sad sausage and committed himself to therapy and being a better man and blah, blah, blah. This guy thinks he is a stud because prostitutes and webcam girls will tell them anything to get a bigger tip. My husband got his head filled with all kinds of nonsense about how he was such a superhuman being (really, you know how good he is in bed by watching him jack off through a webcam, but yeah – he at that crap up hook, line, and sinker). All he managed to do was get a blow job at a massage parlor before I found out about his shenanigans, but that was enough to completely implode the marriage. And yeah, he describes me as the “perfect wife” (he is at least smart enough to drop the qualifiers).
Here is a hint to Mr. Name Withheld – porn and prostitutes actually make you a TERRIBLE lover. You lose all sense of reality (no, a woman isn’t going to scream out in excitement because she is pleasuring ‘you’ – what would she possibly be doing that for?), they want to try things they don’t understand, let alone could never physically achieve themselves, and they become 100% selfish in bed. Their excitement leads them to be ‘sprinters’ to the finish line as if they are some sixteen year old having his first experience with a Playboy magazine. Yeah, I am sure Mr. Olympic sex is the Usain Bolt of the bedroom – he finishes faster than anyone else in the world.
Meanwhile, he wife is holding things down – with the kids, with the house, with the her job, and accepting that she has a mediocre spouse while she is ‘almost perfect’. Yet, she keeps him and remains faithful and committed. When she finds out about his doings (and she will), I hate how much it is going to crush her. She is doing absolutely everything ‘almost perfect’ according to her jerk of a husband, and he would still rather sleep with prostitutes than have true intimacy and love with his own ‘almost perfect’ wife. Hopefully she will find Chump Lady as well.
Prostitutes, ow and anyone that helps you cheat is a proven liar. Why would they do anything that may jeopardize the money train?
Yes. Cool breeze is kind in her sympathetic view of prostitutes, and trafficked ones are indeed victims. She wrote a beautiful post.
The rub is that most OW & garden variety prostitutes who trick do so because they like the easy money, they live to be high and they absolutely love sh*tting all over good girl’s marriages. My sister is a LCSW and did outreach on the streets with many prostitutes, giving clean needles and condoms out.
Because they are jealous of the wife or the committed girlfriend, nothing, second to money, thrills them more than talking about how dumb the John’s wife is. This is their obsession. And, in a way, you can imagine their sick view. Their mantra is- You look at me like I am garbage but your man is giving me your rent money. Your man is all up in my stuff. And I am a whore. And he slobbers after this p*ssy. This is what they say.
Ruthless, cunning, nasty, mean spirited, petty, back stabbing bitches. Who laugh and hold the Johns in contempt that they rob. Their view of sex is so warped and nauseating that he does not comprehend the low lifes he considers .
Sex is a bowel movement to them that they get paid for. That’s sexy, huh?
Withheld, the fake guileless, awww shucks tone of your letter as you sh*t all over his wife with subhuman women who would stab YOUR children for an iPad to pawn leaves me speechless at your entitled horror show. Do the right thing and divorce your wife, with a generous settlement and get away from her and the children. You are scary.
“Because they are jealous of the wife or the committed girlfriend, nothing, second to money, thrills them more than talking about how dumb the John’s wife is. This is their obsession. And, in a way, you can imagine their sick view. Their mantra is- You look at me like I am garbage but your man is giving me your rent money. Your man is all up in my stuff. And I am a whore. And he slobbers after this p*ssy. This is what they say.”
Mate poaching at it finest. So many people are only about the conquest. My x was literally out of touch with today’s rules. He considered himself a playa, that seduced women at the club out of their panties. I told him a woman decides if she’s going to have sex as she dresses in her selection of panties. You just happened to be the fool that came along. What exactly did you win? A beat up vagina with more miles than a ’72 Datsun. I can never understand the thrill of sleeping in another man’s sperm or oral sex.
That was my initial skein, but I had to let it go. They operate on a different level. It’s good to be out!
Me too, Renewed. It does not compute. Why would you want to play in another man’s sewage? Where many have been and most are afraid to follow. My XH defends whores, so this topic is like a cavity to me. It actually gives me chest pains.
Your perceptiveness is startling. It is the old panty decision. Granny panties, no go. Thong, ready to screw. And…..shaving the legs.
I have not shaved since November. I resemble a Yeti, but by G-d, I not being duped by a “playa”.
Our culture does a crappy job of teaching boys how to be centered and present and internally self-aware and empathetic. We interpret what we consider to be, and value as, “male” behavior as traits that mean those children shouldn’t also learn about their emotional selves.
What do we get for that paradigm? A high percentage of emotionally abandoned, entitled, exploitive men who are, ironically, disappointingly easy to exploit.
A person who seeks only to appear tough and doesn’t understand him/her self emotionally can’t differentiate between actual caring and agenda-based caring behavior in him/her self.or anyone else.
Also so true! STBX has only just recently realized he has NO FUCKING CLUE what goes on in his own head. Apparently he doesn’t know what love is. Because he THOUGHT he was in love with the whoremat. But WAIT! Maybe secret texting for five months about how hard it is when your spouse doesn’t know how to read your mind ISN’T TWU WUV?! Maybe the reason you think she “gets you” is because you actually TELL HER what it is you think is making you “unhappy”. And then when she goes “cool. bummer. same. I would NEVER do that to you.” It feels like you are SO CONNECTED. ??? One of my favorite things he said was that maybe it WASN’T me making him unhappy. No. Really?
I wish we could like comments on this site. Your comment is so accurate. STBX is definitely a product of his environment, as was I. The difference between us was that I was capable of self-refection, compassion and empathy for others. While he lacks empathy for anyone who is not himself and he lacks self-awareness. It’s almost like he’s emotionally disabled.
We also raise our girls to be “female”, to value appearance above all else and to exploit others through enticing hooks and coy, indirect requests that require one to prove loyalty and/or appreciation. For that, we get a high percentage of women who… Cut and paste the above statement verbatim here. 🙂
“A beat up vagina with more miles than a ’72 Datsun.”
Renewed–comments quote of the day!
I had a good laugh when a call girl handed my male friend a card with me sitting there in front of me. He took it. Not someone to date. Only friend at a great distance. I look in her eyes towards me as she did it at a blues club was hilarious. Definitely business with a twist. My STBXH couldn’t perform with me. Despite reading or viewing a sex scene on the internet, but he d*mn sure had a drawer full of Viagra that I threw in with his Bible as I sent him packing. They are so special. I hate it for his wife when he finds out. It will be messy. I hope she finds us quickly. I needed this today since the mediation game has started. I love that I provide all the documents and he barely does anything but pound his fists and rage. Then, he starts over from the beginning with questions already answered. I love the new smart phone where once I calm down over Pete and Repeat, I can take a photo of what was already said and sent.
Bravo Clara! And Amen!
I hope, if this disordered, dysfunctional excuse of a man takes the time to read CL’s and CN’s comments, he weighs in with his resolve to confess all to his wife and take his consequences with a smile and anything at all that she needs, whenever she needs, for however long she needs.
Love this, Coolbreeze. Great post. So true, the cheaters begin to live in their deluded fantasy sex world where they are sex gods and their spouses just don’t measure up. 100% selfish in bed.
This is all so true! And sad. I was her. I AM her. And it sucks. I did everything right. I tried to be the perfect wife for an imperfect husband. And when he felt that I and our marriage weren’t measuring up to his standards then it was all my fault. It had nothing to do with him. Of course not. Because he was SO SAD and SUFFERING SO MUCH for SO LONG. His unhappiness could have NOTHING to do with him. And like nevereouldhaveimagined I thought it was a rough patch we’d get through too. But apparently when I had a bad time in the marriage and stuck it out and it got better that was crazy talk. When he had a hard time it was because it was all my fault and a couple of months of displeasure with the situation and NOT FUCKING SAYING ANYTHING drove him to fuck a whore. Because he wasn’t “happy” and he “deserves happiness”. FUCK THAT NOISE! No one DESERVES happiness. That shit is like a unicorn. Some people are happy. Some are not. Shit happens to you and it sucks. You can try to be happy or find happiness but it is not a given. Ever. The idea that people are happy to me is just as toxic as porn. It’s all that bullshit social media fake happy that ruined my marriage. Along with someone who used to be a real human and turned into ?
“Along with someone who used to be a real human and turned into shit.”
If it makes you feel any better, he was never a Real Human. He was always shit. He just hid it very very well. For each whore you know about, there were at likely least 2 more and possibly dozens more. You still don’t know the half of it. These folks are really, really good at keeping secrets. They keep them until they get discovered OR until they decide you Are No Longer Of Use to Them, at which time they devalue and discard. It’s not all that bullshit social media and fake happy that ruined your marriage. Your husband being a natural-born sack of shit (that finally started to smell) is what ruined your marriage. Now, I’m not a huge fan of social media, fake happy, and all that stuff. And technology can be addictive. But someone already has to have poor character to do what your (and my) husband did. The bad character is already there. Just the situation exposed it. Sending big hugs your way.
My STBX response out of the gate was “I deserve to be happy.” Yes, and I deserve to be taken advantage of, emotionally abused, and set on the shelf untouched and unloved. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? 12 years of lies and deception. Why didn’t he get out? Because I was “of use.” I was taking care of all his home, the vacation home, the kid, the dogs. He was traveling on the company dime and having affairs. What an asshole.
I know! Fucker! He “deserves to be happy” and what? I deserve to be cheated on? Lied to? Dumped like I’m human garbage? I deserve to have my entire life taken away? Lose my place to live? Half the income? My sense of safety and comfort and self? Because you DESERVE happiness at my expense? If you DESERVE happiness then I deserved a level playing field so I could “find happiness” with someone else while you were still taking care of your half of our life! DICK!
Oh Shelby, your posts are just awesome! Mine deserved a menage a trois, imagine! An open marriage just for him and I’d just carry on as the scullery maid! The entitlement is strong in that bastard to not even offer an open marriage!!???!!
I think HE deserves for his dick to rot off and you deserve to laugh at the dickless wonder ? Then I believe he deserves to work everyday until he dies and pay you every penny he makes in that time. You deserve real true love or happiness in whatever form that may take (a threesome with a George Clooney and Chris Hemsworth lookalike perhaps, that the dickless wonder has playing in his mind movies until the end of his miserable life?) If anyone DESERVES happiness it is surely not the betrayer but the chump. Cheaters YOU SUCK! ?
Sad Shelby, ” If you DESERVE happiness then I deserved a level playing field so I could “find happiness” with someone else while you were still taking care of your half of our life! DICK”
You are spot on, x was just taking care of his half of our life. I was actually instrumental in “helping him distance” himself from me. Glad I was of service like a good little wife appliance, f*er.
Pod “people”=cheater
Who the hell thinks like that?
It’s the shit part of being the chump. You do everything you can to make your and by extension the cheater’s life good, easier, happier. They benefit from all the chump’s innate goodness and selflessness and the chump gets screwed. I unknowingly helped my cheater too. I encouraged him to go out and make friends and on one of the nights out with his married buddies from work he met the whoremat and the rest is history.
Too bad I didn’t get the heads up that he found someone he “connected with” so I could stop GAF about him and find my own “connection” before he decided to split. It makes me so sick that the chump follows the rules and then ends up screwed in the end.
Good point… they really suck in bed… mine always ended up with erectile dysfunction in the middle of sex .. I gave up… big turn off!
All that time and money invested in prostitutes makes you undeserving of a near perfect wife (appliance).
Basic human decency and respect are missing and what you are withholding is the truth. You are a scum bag. It’s that simple.
My gosh, was this letter from my ex?
He, too, needed more sex than I could provide, and more ego stroking. It sure is hard to screw someone who is never available or interested until you’re comatose (necromancy, much?) — yet blames YOU. He shifted into “needs” speak when we split – “oh, if only we could meet each other’s Needs,” like my Number One need was sex alone. For him not to be a jackass who financially ruined us and would never help me with anything, those were some high ranking needs. But whatevs – Smoochie’s problem now!
Ugh, could be mine as well. I would work all day, come home, get everyone ready for whatever activity/sport was scheduled, drive them there (usually with another friend in tow), watch with genuine joy while they participated, drive everyone home, make dinner, help with homework, clean house/do laundry, get clothes ready for me and the kids for the next day, all while Skankenstein snored on the couch. I would fall into bed exhausted and finally quiet my brain enough to sleep, only to be awakened by the poke, poke, poke of his boner and a ham hand crushing my breast. How very romantic. You see he had had a three or four hour nap after work and was fresh as a daisy, but was always resentful and pouty if I said I was tired. There were times I literally whimpered silently to myself because I just wanted some respite from constantly trying to meet his needs. The douche canoe couldn’t be bothered to converse meaningfully with us or be present in our lives, but he had all kinds of time for Craigslist hook-ups, lunchtime sex with hookers, and on and on. But he didn’t understand why we didn’t drop everything when he got home and just sit cross-legged on the floor in front of him, gazing with wonder and adoration upon his majesty, because he considered himself PERFECTLY perfect and entitled to have his Olympian needs satisfied.
I’m sure NONE of this applies to the letter writer, and that he is only cheating on/endangering/betraying/lying to his wife for her own good, not his. He’s trying to HELP and really, it’s almost a sacrifice donchaknow. (Eye roll) Here’s some news for you Withheld, this “nearly perfect wife” achieved a “personal best” by divorcing a POS just as “altruistic” as you. I hope your poor wife does the same and you do the one thing that would truly help her: send her to Chump Nation. Oh, one more thing. Fuck you.
You Deplete Me
What is it with these fools? They think they can blow off their spouse and family and prioritize everything ahead and then when they come home, everyone should drop what they are doing to adore them? Mine repeatedly whines that he didn’t feel as if he was a part of the family.
I wasn’t the only one doing the pick me dance. The kids were too. And he still claims we excluded him. They alter the story to justify their shit and to get people to feel sorry for them. Now they are just alone (unless you count the stupid young girl he convinced to follow him around).
Oh my God! The “I don’t feel included” bullshit. Cue twilight zone spiral. Huge trigger for me because he never bothered to come with us for ice cream, couldn’t stay awake at movies or restaurants, went out to sit in the car during friends’ birthday parties, criticized us for how slowly we walked through the zoo and on and on. Maybe he would have paid attention if we had helped him find hook-ups on Craigslist. At least then we would have been of use to him. Now that my boys are grown (22 and 24) he wants to hang with them in bars, and the deluded asshole can’t understand why my sons don’t want to pick up chicks with dear old dad. Fucker.
Ewww. If I were your sons, I would be disgusted with that thought.
My two oldest are 13 and 15. Their dad sends them texts that say, “Let me know if you want to go to dinner sometime.” If he comes to the house to see them, he sits in the living room and waits for the kids to come talk to them. He then complains that they don’t want to spend time with him.
They are spoiled brats who think that everything should revolve around them and that they should be adored. News flash…when you shit all over the people you claim to love, those same people will stop trying to keep you around. And if you don’t make the effort, they will just let you slip away.
You Deplete Me, he couldn’t stay awake and took 3-4 hour naps after work BECAUSE he had lunchtime sex with hookers. He chose to expend all of his energy with his hookups instead of with his family, and constantly living a double life is exhausting!
Hand crushing grab of the boobs. They are horrible in bed. No romance. Yes, crush boobs and poke with a limp sausage.
I’m with LovedaJackass. Perfect.
When I saw the first few lines of his letter, I knew your response was going to be brilliant!
Just perfect. I can’t wait to read everyone’s reply throughout the day. 🙂
“I hope your many hours of happy ejaculate were worth it when you’re old and alone with your colostomy bag.”
Here’s the thing WHITHELD, you don’t think about the future, you think only of the Now, what feels good now, what makes you happy now. You are not patient and think that this is a phase in every marriage, raising young kids and twins at that and her working too. How do you make her feel special? How do help her at home with the kids and the house?
Stop being a selfish asshole. Or then leave the marriage and go have Olympic Sex!! ewww
Well after all he’s not finding an affair partner, it’s only prostitutes. It’s a need after all. The justification is the sport.
I was cut off from sex for five years, he said he couldn’t do it. He tried pills but wouldn’t do anything else about it. At year 3 I thought long and hard about whether I could deal with it because sex is so important to me. I decided to stay because I loved him. Celibate at year 5 I discovered he was cheating on me. I guess I wasn’t perfect. Assholes cheat, honest, ethical people deal or divorce.
Withheld, assuming you’re not a troll, you’re a fucking coward. I hope your wife never speaks to you again and that you suffer for the sexual violence you’ve perpetrated. You sicken me, you fuck.
That’s what I said….?
Perfect.
Yes.
“You sicken me you fuck.”
What a perfect little nugget of disdain. I’m stealing it.
If his prostitutes were really friends, they’d give him a freebie every now and then. Who pays? for sex these days? Oh that’s right LOOSERS!
“Marks,” that’s who. Easy fat old dumb pathetic marks, that’s who pays for sex. Weak.
I love it that you wrote that. This is a sore spot for me, because of the stupidity of the men who use prostitutes.
Who with a small teaspoon of dignity wants to pay someone to have to f*ck them? Transactional, okay maybe. Gross, unethical, cheating. But to consider them friends? It would be hilarious if it were not so brain dead dumb.
It costs extra if Withheld also wants to have them listen to him whine.
Exactly.
Nowadays if I am with a person who over-reacts openly to another’s appearance, I say “You seriously need to get a hold of yourself. You are way too easy to exploit.”
It’s a real buzz-kill. 🙂
Whaaaaat! Doesn’t EVERY husband have three of four “good friend” prostitutes they want to invite to every outing? Don’t they sprinkle them in among birthday parties and ask them to “take a whack at the old Pinata?” Maybe invite the saucy minxes to bring the devilled eggs to church lunches for some good-natured tongue-in-(ahem)-“cheek” fun? Sit at their bedside when they’re sick and stroke their…hand? Bring them to couples baby showers and play “Guess the Sex (position)?” Invite good ol’ fun-lovin’ Bambi along to the work picnic so she can “jump in the sack” race or the 3-legged (and triangulated) race? Withheld’s nearly perfect wife should cheerfully go along with that because after all, hey, he loves people!
What a complete tool.
Selfish and entitled is what this man is.
As I was sharing with my counselor some stories about my ex. He said, “He’s a really selfish person.” I never saw it all those years, but he was right. Sure, he had his moments of looking like a good husband and father. But for the most part, everything was about him, his needs and his wants. The kids and I were just appliances.
Thanks to this scum bags letter. I can now see why my ex went to Canada over ten times to get 100% naked lap dances and probably more from strippers. I was this “perfect wife.” The only thing that’s different is that I was a SAHM and I had only one child and was pregnant with another. I really thought I was being the best wife and mother I could be. I was trying to make a happy and nurturing home for my husband and child. He barely helped out and was working all the time. I was exhausted, because I was pregnant and our son wasn’t the best sleeper. So instead of investing time into our family, the selfish and entitled prick decided to get his sexual needs met with a stripper. Instead of saying, “Gosh. My wife is exhausted at night. What can I do to help her and make her feel loved and cherished?” And in return wife would have felt loved which in turn would help her feel connected to husband which would have played itself out in bed.
Selfish. Selfish. Selfish.
Oh, this. The thing that struck a nerve with me in this letter is how hard this man works to craft his image as both the misunderstood nice guy and the victim, while at home his poor wife tends to the family that she bore for him…clueless. I feel so much pain for her, and I don’t even know her. I feel the pit in my stomach when I harken back to the feeling of discovery, where it felt like someone poured battery acid onto the motherboard in my brain. My nervous system has never fully recovered from the trauma.
I was a SAHM too. Our 1 & 2 year old babies were asleep down the hall. Every implication of what he was taking from his innocent babies swirled around in my head until I threw up and collapsed. He took their family away. But he was pathologically committed to the nice guy narrative, and still is three years later.
This man who wrote the letter has no soul if he could look at his family and do what he’s doing. He’s an entitled monster, and as with all horror shows, we the audience wish we could scream at the TV ‘Run! The monster’s coming! Run!! But she won’t see the monster until her moment of discovery, and I feel so powerless to help her. Heartbreaking.
You weren’t TRYING to be the best wife and mother you could be. You WERE the best wife and mother you could be at the time with what you had to work with. Your WORST is still better than what that cheater gave because you were honestly trying. And he was just thinking of himself! That’s the worst part for me. I’m sure everyone else here thought of their family and significant other’s needs and wants first and then they got fucked over. I thought of us and him and then me every GD time and he was sitting there in a fucking puddle of self pity having his ego stroked by some skank.
Is this guy FOR REAL? I agree with what everyone has said…it sounds like his wife is doing it all, working, parenting, housekeeping, etc. and he is laying his lazy hind end around expecting HER TO SERVICE HIM? Maybe she is not interested because she is exhausted or maybe she knows what his hobbies are.
His wife needs to join the chump nation and boot him. Trust us all on that, we have lived through that crap in the past.
damn what an idiot.
too bad we dont have his wives contact details.
Hi Withheld!
I’m the older version of your wife. The one who bore the children, raised them as a married single mother, the CFO of the home, the penultimate hoop jumper to worship the ‘magic boner’ because of so much unhappiness of my partner.
Guess what I received from magic boner man? Incurable STD because he is a nice guy who genuinely ‘likes’ people so much he fucked randos behind my back without protection for 20+yrs despite the near perfect Olympic sex with his legal spouse, a farce of an emotionally mature adult father figure for my children because he is still more invested in himself than his kids- the latest bullshit is placing a trip to Ireland and seeing fucking Black Sabbath over his own children’s milestone birthday last month, depleting marital funds over the course of the ‘marriage’ to play with the people he really likes for Olympic sex.
You suck. Since your penis is paramount, you need to come clean with your wife, you fucking loser. And yes, I agree with CL she needs to run. Raising twins is exhausting, I know. Having to include Baby-man in your parenting mix will cause depression.
I would have loved to sent CL’s response to my ex during our marriage. He had a similar thought process as this writer.
Hmmm. His justifications are interesting. Its his wife who is thwarting his olympic needs!!!
Well, I was the understanding wife who didn’t. I would explain that my hormones were up the spout and that whilst I loved him, I didn’t have a sexual urge right now. That the switch was down.
Nevertheless, because he was my friend and I understood that wasn’t true for him I would do it. Could he not annoy me by trying to stimulate me, could he not touch my boobs too much because they had been mauled all day by children, and could he not overstay his welcome by ‘delaying’.
It was the most honest and loving I could be, and he still got around 3 x/week.
I am also the wife who loves a bit of it. Loves oral, happy to dress up and play. He did not go without.
Did ANY of this get appreciated or stop him cheating? No. He didn’t like being criticised and you cannot trump entitlement. This poor wife, she is depressed because at a deep level she senses she is alone and uncared for.
Witheld, you are horrible. Those people you ‘think’ are your friends? They hate you. You mean you have never read anything about the world of prostitutes???? No, but they are appliances for your awesomeness as well. $$$$$$! Thief.
Because YOU were HIS friend. He wasn’t a friend. Good riddance to him.
Withheld, you withheld your responsibility to your “near perfect wife” and the twins. Then, you put the blame on her, STHM with twins and housework. I honestly think that in reality when you live the house for work and “friends “, you have no idea all the things that a wife/mother do. You have made your wife a chattel and you think that you are a knight in shining armor. Ugh! You are despicable.
This letter is proof to us all that there is nothing to work with. Entitled people think and behave like children. Believing the world spins around them. Being a chump meant I was fixable, thanks CL/CN , these narcissist are NOT. Makes me think of Forrest Gump, Run chumps Run.
Withheld thinks he is the smartest person in the room. He is using logic to to describe an illogical act. My favorite part is ” I love people, especially the ones I’m attracted to, and enjoy being intimate in every possible way”. WTF? So ugly people are out of bone-train? If he wants to have sex with you consider yourself attractive!! I bet those hookers are beautiful, and clean. He has very high standards. .
Then he goes on to say she didn’t want an open relationship but, ” I loved her so much I didn’t mind, figuring as long as we had some sort of sex that would provide sufficient satisfaction.” Sufficient satisfaction for WHO? Obviously the wife’s satisfaction did not matter. Did she not understand that his needs are the only one that matters. He LOVED her AS LONG AS? Talk about unconditional.. I loved my ex as long as he didn’t fuck prostitutes, I think that is a pretty low bar to achieve.
But you need to understand he tried and tried again to fuck his tired, depressed and traumatized, and now probably not as attractive wife. So he really had no choice but to pay for sex from some friends!!
What an asshole!!
CL – you are the queen of drop the mic moments. Applause. Standing ovation. Thank you for this.
Agreed!
Agreed +1! 🙂
Brilliant CL! Just Brilliant!
You just know, when that email rolled in to CL, she read it, calmly sipping a coffee, put it down and began to type,
the Gods were laughing and said:
Shit’s about to get REAL!!!
Hahahahahaha! After I read this idiot’s letter, I cringed knowing “you’re gonna get it, you’re gonna get it!”
I’m with Mighty Again – I can’t wait to read all of the replies! It is like an extra special gift given to us by Chump Lady today. When I read the first few lines my smile started growing. By the time I got to the end of Withheld’s letter, I was practically giddy with anticipation to read her reply. I feel like a friend just gave me a perfect 4 ingredient recipe, or told me about a concealer that really works on dark circles, or something equally wonderful (my needs are simple).
Just a few of my own thoughts for Withheld.
You tout your wife as practically perfect (because of course you deserve perfection) but you know what? She could be unattractive, unambitious, a messy housekeeper and frigid, and she STILL wouldn’t deserve to be cheated on and she would STILL be a better person than outgoing, interesting, super sexy, sparkly you. Because she is a person, she deserves respect and fidelity. Because you chose her as a partner, she deserves respect and fidelity. Fuck perfect. This Nation is filled with wonderful people and no matter our achievements or ratings (I’m a 6/10, myself) none of us deserved to be cheated on. Ever. For any reason.
Douchebag, “you probably think this song is about you.” It isn’t. It is a gift to all of us in the Nation. It will make us laugh, and reach out to each other, and help us heal. You are a lost cause. A source of amusement.
Can’t wait to meet your wife, though. ❤ her already.
Killing it!!
Amen. The song isn’t about him. Clown songs are boring.
LouisvilleFlower, I think to a lot of us here in CN you are a 10.
I do support him in a tiny way. It is not fair to refuse sex in a marriage which says (in the old English ceremony) that sex is subscribed to marriage in a trade off. You don’t stray, and you get your needs met within that institution:
“The union of husband and wife in heart, body, and mind is intended by God for their mutual joy; for the help and comfort given one another in prosperity and adversity; and, when it is God’s will, for the procreation of children and their nurture
in the knowledge and love of the Lord. Therefore marriage is not to be entered into unadvisedly or lightly, but reverently, deliberately, and in accordance with the purposes for which it was instituted by God.”
So if she is refusing all sex at all times, she is not being fair. Equally, is he raising the matter sufficiently clearly that she knows she is not fulfilling her part of ‘mutual comfort’ and that is unjust? Is he insisting this is brought up in therapy?
We aren’t told. We don’t know if he is objecting to celibacy, not enough, vanilla, non Olympian, what. But his ‘loving people’ etc etc is a tad creepy.
Patsy
If they ever told the truth….chances are that he is lying anyway as CL suggests. They all lie all the time to everyone and themselves.
And still even if she was he should find a way to deal with it in the open so his wife knows. Then he can divorce her if he finds it too hard to live with.
Wives or husbands are not obligated to provide sex. It’s a decision two consenting adults come to make together – how they arrange their sex life with honesty and transparency. If one can’t live with what the other wants then you part ways.
He does not have any point. Just ridiculous justifications for his ‘wants’. Is he bringing it up in therapy – of course not! He’s not interested in that at all really. He just wants his cake and to eat it.
That thinking that women are obligated led to rape within marriage which is also now illegal thank goodness.
How about the part where it says “…for the procreation of children and their nurture…”?? Why is his wife the only one that has to step up to this part?
For her sake and for the sake of the children, give this poor woman a divorce and enough money to pay a decent housekeeper, and then get thee to thy “friends” and out of her life.
What a waste of space.
Hey Patsy – sure marriage includes “the union of…the body” but go back and read the part of “for their mutual joy”. What we are hearing from Withheld is that his wife is not getting any joy out of it. How about “for better or for worse”. Suffering from mental and physical exhaustion as well as depression is completely overwhelming. That poor wife does not need a third child, demanding that he be serviced the way he “needs” it. He is a selfish entitled prick.
Patsy, the key phrase you are not understanding is “mutual joy.”. That means both parties enjoy the act. As far as it is not fair to withhold sex? Is this sharia law?
After my 3rd kid, my uterus was litterally falling out of my body. I wasn’t putting out to my husband. His “discussion” with me about our sex life consisted of him occasionally grabbing me in bed at night and complaining about needing to get laid. He painted quite a different picture in marriage counseling, and I’m sure he could write a better sad sausage letter than Withheld. You are reading one very skewed side of the story and giving a cheater the benefit of the doubt.
Even when I did my very best to meet his needs, he continued to cheat. My cheater was insistent. He wouldn’t even wait until I was cleared by the doctor. I wasn’t allowed to do housework, but he thought I should do him. I tried my best, and was pretty awesome considering the circumstances (emergency surgery) but could not satisfy his desire for variety and adoration for the duration of our marriage. He did whatever he pleased with no regard for me whatsoever.
So if his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was too fatigued/sick to have sex – it would be ok to solicite a dirty whore behind her back?
She is not being fair because she suffers from depression and is raising his kids and is probably beyond exhausted holding everything together while her cheating husband is screwing dirty hookers because he needs to blow his load? – so he is entitled to play Russian roulette with her life? This guy is a self righteous selfish POS. If his dick fell off I doubt his wife would go to male prostitutes because he couldn’t fulfill her “mutual comfort.”
I don’t see at any time why it would be reasonable or ok for a man who is married with a wife and three kids at home to screw anyone little alone a hooker. It is NEVER justifiable!!! If he wants to be a dirty pig – he should have the decency to give his wife the option to leave – not put her life in jeopardy just because “poor poor him isn’t getting as much sex as he would like.”
Dear, God. TWO WRONGS DON’T MAKE A RIGHT. All couples should discuss physical needs before they get married. Make sure they are aligned. If a person cuts off sex after they had an understanding of what the needs were, then it should definitely be discussed and worked through. If they can’t come to a decision then they can divorce. It does NOT give the other person the right to cheat. If you robbed my house it doesn’t make it legal for me to hunt you down and rob yours. We both get arrested.
When you love, you find a way. Give her body time to heal. As CL said, pick up the slack.
Take the money you use for hookers and hire Molly Maid once a week. A back rub. A wink.
A compliment. Even a surprise tuna sub from Jimmy Johns make might an exhausted working mother giddy with relief.
This couple have young children. They are not entering a 20 year sex drought. He is just a sociopath who wants to fuck any slit he encounters while he wife mans the fort, and keeps everything humming and clicking. I bet she would like to find a 20 something hottie on Tinder and have him rub her feet and go down on her and throw him a $100 and say “Later.”
But she would not do that. She is changing diapers, chopping apples and probably doing Excel spreadsheets for her job. You know, being a near perfect.
Fuck him sideways.
Love this response. Perfect.
Absolutely. A sexless marriage is a deal-breaker for many. But lying and deceiving and adultery… that’s covered in the actual commandments. He wants all that he has and a side dish of fucking whores until the wife who has no idea of what he’s doing to endanger her health and spending the family income, measures up to some specific ideal amount of sexual willingness.
It’s either fuck like an Olympian at all times or I will sleep with prostitutes and it will actually be your fault. No.
Here’s the thing Patsy-pretty much every cheater has the “I am in a sexless marriage story.” Cheaters cheat and they lie; the end. Withheld just happens to be an uber narcissist with insane hubris to boot! How else can you explain him writing his sad sausage story and sending it to Chump Lady all while believing he’ll change her views?
I digress. I guess I don’t know how anyone could agree with any of his points since he’s a loser who chases after prostitutes; thinks they are his friends and refers to his wife as “almost perfect.”
If you agree with the point that it’s wrong to be shut off from your spouse in the bedroom, I can follow that logic. I would however need more information and I would never accept it at face value from a cheater. If it’s a normal couple who love each other and they have adult conversations, I’m sure problems like this can be solved. If they can’t solve them, then I suppose that’s when the discussions about open marriages or divorce come in. At least it’s honest and both people get a vote in how they live their lives.
Withheld is withholding vital information from his wife which no one here can get behind.
I realise this comment is old now but really…
Not being fair?
Using sex as a weapon would be unfair. Refusing sex because you want to hurt your partner would be unfair.
REFUSING TO HAVE SEX YOU DON’T WANT IS NOT UNFAIR.
Expecting your spouse to have sex when they don’t want it is unfair. Putting your needs above their bodily autonomy is unfair. Fucking other people is unfair.
Marriage vows state “in sickness and in health”. “For better and for worse”. That means, respecting your partner to stick it out through your tough times, and that includes dry spells.
My husband had to endure five years of no sex (as in, actually zero sex) when my health deteriorated and my medication made me very unwell. We then also had twins and the hormonal effect on my body was beyond extreme. Took me 10 months to have sex after that.
He was free to leave me at any time, I would have understood. But he wasn’t free to go and fuck others because we are married. And he never did – he survived because sex may be a biological impulse but it isn’t a need. No one has died from lack of sex, ever.
I’m also wondering if these guys (or women) are motivated by weakness and fear. If you listen to the creep what he is saying is his ‘nearly perfect wife’ does it all. She is obviously smart and strong and capable. I think the ‘nearly’ part of it is his unconscious recognition of her one blind spot – him.
They cheat around to hide their weakness and fear. It’s a sick kind of hatred, jealousy and revenge. They say we are perfect to our faces (mine does) and yet fuck about behind our backs. It’s hatred for their own shortcomings turned outwards.
Agreed, I got the same rhetoric. It’s still not right though. They should be asking themselves why they want to do something they know they shouldn’t and confront that issue within themselves. Instead they direct it outward because it’s too hard to do the self reflection and work on their issue.
Pathetic.
I don’t know about inner weakness; they’re empty vessels who need constant filling. But George Simon has done a pretty good job de-bunking the “low self-esteem” explanation of narcissism, which is based on Freudian notions.
Myself, I think they’re just assholes. I wish the DSM would catch up and make that an official diagnosis.
I just finished “Why Does He Does That?” by Lundy Bancroft. He is in agreement with you and said these jerks have very high self esteem and use their abuse and infidelity as a means to manipulate, control, dominate and generally behave like a dick. Translation=asshole.
So, so, so true! They hate themselves and feel they can never measure up so they take that hate turn it on the chump and then go out and fuck because they need the validation. That’s why they go for those disgusting whores. It’s affairing down. They feel inferior to the chump so in order to validate themselves they fuck some skank that was always going to be less than (besides the fact that she’s a whore that will fuck a married guy) so they can feel good about themselves.
You might be on to something. STBX admitted that he was afraid that I would find someone better. I never took his fear seriously. I assumed it was projection on his part since he was the only one of us looking for someone new.
STBX said the same thing to me. It was always (I thought!!!!!) a silly joke that when he turned 40 he’d be traded in for two 20 year olds. It was also always said (by him!) that I would end up a cougar later in life. I just had a realization that his mother got rid of his dad and has a younger SO now. It makes me wonder… The worst part is even with all the lame shit I hated in our relationship I still LOVED him and told him so every day. I was NEVER looking to get rid of him. I never even looked at other men. Once we got married I basically became blind to other guys. Why should I be looking around when I had the one I wanted? Now look at me ☹️?
It doesn’t matter if his wife is no longer interested in any sex at all or if the Olympic Sex Champion is doing all the dishes and all the diapers and all the chores. He is lying to his wife. He is using their shared resources to cheat on her. He is taking health risks. If prostitution is illegal in his area, he is risking an arrest.
As CL says, the only honest way forward is to give your wife the choice to stay in a marriage with a spouse who patronizes prostitutes or to leave because she doesn’t want that kind of a marriage. Any other decision is simply selfish.
Now, to “Name Withheld” himself, prostitutes are not stupid. They are actresses in wretched roles. If you tell them you want a woman who loves to give blow jobs, well then they will tell you they adore performing blow jobs. If you tell them you prefer sex with some “meaning” and friendly “intimacy,” then they’ll tell you that they so, so, so enjoy getting to know you. The prostitutes are not your friends, you idiot. They are giving you what you asked for. (Do prostitutes prefer men who want to talk over those who want to physically abuse them? Sure. But that doesn’t mean they actually like you.) Telling us you’ve become friends of sorts with a few prostitutes does not persuade anyone in Chump Nation that you are a nice guy. It confirms the fact that your ego exceeds your I.Q.
In addition to your other spot on observations, may I add that just because someone tells us he is an Olympic Sexual Athlete, that doesn’t mean he is. I often laughed to myself when my X’s would tell me they had a “high sex drive” and needed a lot of attention. I wondered why, if it was so high, that they could not maintain an erection? Why did the attention they need, if they were so good at sex, require me to do all the work involved in sex? Why is lying there passively receiving a BJ an Olympic Sport? Who is the true athlete in that scenario??? Of course, I was also working and doing the lion’s share of the housework and child care. But they had needs. As if I didn’t? When was my orgasm going to be delivered? Was FEDEX bringing it? Give the FEDEX guy the Gold! If they are such world class lovers, why am I not hiring a housekeeper and a nanny to take over my mundane chores, so that I can arrange time in my schedule for the Love God? Because he was a legend in his own mind — the product did not live up to the advertising. Living with someone who has time for porn, but no time to get his own skid marks out of his underwear, or the toilet, is not exactly sexy. Olympic? Really? Where is the judging panel when you need them? 0, -1, You’ve Got to be Kidding!!! SCORE=LOSER!
Lol! Spot on, Portia! In 26 years together, I can count on my two itty bitty whittle hands how many times sex with him actually produced an orgasm. But to hear him tell it, he was a wonderful and generous lover with a highly charged sex drive… there had to be something wrong with me. Yep, nope, can attest that he was just a selfish, uninspired prick.
Wish FedEx delivered orgasms…..oh, wait, they do….in plain brown boxes, lol
Samantha in Sex and the City said:
“Honey, they don’t call it a job for nothing!!!”
Who, indeed is doing the Olympian lifting?
Portia, you nailed it “the product did not live up to the advertising”. We chumps really were sold a bill of goods, spoiled goods in shiny tin foil wrappers.
People like “Withheld” are mental. They honestly believe that shit. They really think it was only fair to lie to their spouse if they don’t get what they want.
Here’s the thing, Withheld. You are a coward. If you truly had respect for your wife you would have discussed the fact that if she didn’t want to have sex then you would like to get it elsewhere. You chose to marry her even though you knew that you wanted more. You specifically state that in your letter. You CHOSE to marry her.
Well, bub, what happened? You didn’t really mean it? Well that’s deceitful. It was harder than you anticipated? Ok, then tell her that and leave the marriage before you fuck other people.
You know why you didn’t? Because you are a coward. You didn’t want to admit that you are weak and you especially didn’t want anyone else to know how weak you are.
People like you only care about one thing: how they APPEAR to others. What other people think of them. They need confirmation all the time of how great they are and that is because they subconsciously now that they are NOT great. It’s pathetic.
Grow a fucking set, decide on your morals, then own them! Stand up to YOURSELF when you have thoughts of doing shady shit. Don’t do the shady shit! Be a respectable person and live up to your morals, OR stop fooling yourself that you’re a good guy. Lying to your wife is the definition of a bad guy. Stop being delusional.
Another way I know you are a coward…..your pen name. “Withheld”….? Ha! We wouldn’t want anyone to find out what you did….they may find out who you really are and think less of you. How tragic. The real tragedy is how chicken shit you are.
A better name would be “Indulging”. He isn’t withholding from anything.
This “need” to have your dick serviced by professionals…what happens if that need is not filled? It falls off? It hurts? You’re sad? Getting your dick worked over on-demand instead of picking the children up from daycare and getting supper on the table is not having a need filled – it is a selfish want being fulfilled and an act with dangerous implications for the person you selected over all others to build your family.
You “need” food, water, clothing, shelter. Everything else is about what you want, you selfish fuck. Did you ask your wife if she wants to be married to an asshole who uses prostitutes instead of drawing up meal plans and grocery lists? I am sure you bask in the respectability that having a family brings to your image. You love the adoration of those children who think that they have a solid family unit. Little do they know that daddy is deliberately dripping acid on the fabric of their lives.
If the life of Olympic sex with prostitutes while sucking the life energy out of your wife who is carrying the bags for you is so desirable and reasonable an expectation, why are you here on CL? Why not just tell your wife, employer, parents, friends, children’s teachers and everyone else that those are your values, and that’s how you roll? Let it all out and then just do what feels good. Just don’t keep it a secret. See how that works out for you, you pathetic creep.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am the mother of twin girls that I am raising on my own after discovering that the arsehole that sired them was fucking prostitutes without protection in the afternoon when he was supposed to be at work. Like your wife, I was exhausted for years, working full time, caring for the children, household and spouse and managing the life that the asshole wanted. Since giving him the immediate heave-ho (pun intended) I have disclosed to his family and friends how he likes to pay teenagers to sexually service his “needs”. They are disgusted by him. He now lives in rented furnished accommodation, hardly ever sees his children, has no friends except the ones he pays to spend time with but I am sure his needs are still being met on his much-reduced income. That’s your future, asshole.You deserve it.
^^^
Damn straight.
Exactly. If it’s justifiable, it doesn’t need to be secret. If it has to be secret, it isn’t justifiable.
^^^^^THIS! God Ammisfree, you should stitch that on a pillow.
Olympic sex. For a non Olympian. Sounds to me that he’s paying to THINK he’s an Olympian. It’s like those rock n roll camps for old resentful stardom-crushed-dream fucks who pay a ton of money to pretend they can jam on par with Eddie van Halen. The joke’s on this guy because he’s paying. I must agree that his magic boner is in his upper head only since a woman who promised her life to him in front of all her loved ones would not be able to resist that Olympic-level kielbasa action. I doubt he’s a human tripod, or he wouldn’t have to pay in order to utilize it. Amazing what would happen if he took time to make his wife feel like a super hero for carrying and birthing twins and working full time to boot. These stories break my heart, this woman deserves so much better for herself.
Is this written by my Cheater? It sounds exactly like him!
He insisted that he thought I was wonderful and “totally respected” me. And he just couldn’t understand how chasing random whores and lying to me could be categorized as “disrespect.”
He too said I was “nearly perfect” but then proceeded to tell the world how I had all these “problems” that he was “helping me with.” My depression and anxiety, my inability to meet his needs, my lack of interest in sex… These were never HIS problems, you see. They were all MY problems, and he was a glorious person for helping me with them.
Cheater defined my “lack of interest in sex” at one point as the fact that I did not want to have crazy intense sex every single day. He insisted that twice or three times a week just wasn’t enough for his massive sex drive. The funny thing is that when I asked him for sex, he almost always turned me down, or afterward would tell me how I didn’t do it well enough.
He had me going crazy trying to make him happy. After I found out about all the lies, I suddenly realized that the game was rigged. He needed an excuse for what he was doing, and THAT was why he was never happy. It had nothing to do with me. He could have been married to a porn star with nothing to do all day but moan seductively, and he would STILL be dissatisfied.
To me the most telling thing about Withheld’s letter is that he never defines any of this as HIS problem. The problem’s are all his wife’s and he wants us to see him as a fantastic, loyal husband, who is compelled by forces greater than himself to chase hookers. Poor fellow just needs a hobby.. excuse me, “Olympic sport”….
Seriously, do these guys not realize how pathetic they sound that their Olympic sport is banging hookers? I mean, can’t they work on something less embarrassing–skiing or rollerblading… or even knitting…
Catol39, I sign under every.single.sentence you wrote about your cheater. Or my cheater. Same guy. Same excuses.
I have been reading here every single day, not always posting, and it just blows my mind when I see these fuckwits acting the same, pulling the same bullshit justifications for their shitty behavior, gaslighting and stonewalling in the same way.
And yet, I catch myself thinking that maybe I should not be so harsh, maybe I should understand the high sex drive and his need to go through his long-lasting love affair and multiple sex flings to arrive at something meaningful. Maybe after all this he will realise what he is losing and miraculously turn around.
Why am I such a chump…thanks to CL and CN, this kind of thinking is less and less these days. Just need to find a lawyer and make that final step to file. He lives in another country so I am not really inconvenienced by his constant presence but I need closure.
Yes LTC! I have noticed since your first post how your thinking has changed. What you told us you used to listen to and discuss with your cheater was such outrageous bullshit. It was so sad reading that you took it seriously, that you tried so hard to understand his “needs” and his philosophy. Congratulations, you are on your way.
Sorry, this is kiwichump, don’t know why it missed the rest of my name??
Hi kiwi, I wondered who k was! So you see the change in me? I feel I need more anger to propel some action.
I am on business in the US now and met with my dear old friends yesterday from university. They know my story but they never met the cheater. They were surprised how somebody like me (in their words strong, ambitious, smart blah-blah) could be played for such a long time and more importantly, still have some sort of hope with regard to this kind of a person. They felt that hope when poking me with questions and although I insisted I will never take him back, I was not convincing enough. I know I have to go back and stop procrastinating and find a lawyer. According to his words, he wants it done amicably. Let’s see.
I find it very difficult to discount my cheater as a terrible person and that he’s just shit. And maybe that’s my chump side. I am generally not a believer in all people or even most people are good. I think generally all people are animals and that some have better control of themselves than others but generally people just are and some do more good and some do more bad. BUT what I have come to realize is that some people just don’t care. Good or bad doesn’t matter to them. Meaning in a relationship or sex isn’t important to them and some just want to stick it wherever they can. And that is just fine for them. Leave me and others that want monogamy out of it! If your life is so shallow that the point is to bang away until you drop dead more power to you!
Don’t let the cheater with his pseudo BS new age crap of finding the meaning of life through fucking around effect you. It’s not your job to convince him that there’s more to life than banging strangers. If he wants to fuck everyone in the world he can GREAT! Don’t worry about his epiphany. If that ever comes (which it won’t because he’s an entitled, immature, selfish, asshat!) he will realize that he is SCUM for cheating and that he already had something with meaning and he willingly threw it away for random encounters. And hopefully you will be moved onto meh and he will be tortured by the fact that he threw away someone amazing for a string of someone’s that are interchangeable and utterly forgettable. It’s his loss!
The entitlement is very very deep with this one. That’s the only thing that is vast with this shallow puddle of a human being. Using prostitutes is USING another human being. Hookers are not blow up Nancy dolls; it is highly implausible that anybody who trades sex for $$ dreamed as a child of being trafficked for some sick POS’s biological “needs”. This man has no respect for other people least of all his wife, children or these “hookers” for sexual encounters.
He should be spanking the monkey while letting his exhausted wife have a nap. And wash his hands before preparing a frigging meal, do some laundry, vacuum something and actually interact with his progeny (who he cares so deeply for he’s actually let you know their gender).
Lots of us have desires or drives that we can’t get fulfilled all the time. I would love to just lie around eating bon bons and sipping wine. Doesn’t pay the mortage and I’d just get dental caries, fat and drunk. Life is hard, life is work. Creating the healthy respectful balance between eking out your basic needs (food, water, and shelter) ) and enjoyment of your days is the key to fulfillment.
Succumbing to meeting “biological needs” through lies and subterfuge is a loser’s way out. Sex is not a basic need it is a drive a desire. Celibates can live long lives. Worry about getting your wife’s and children’s basic needs met. Spend your money on rent and groceries and actually giving love and affection to your family
This guy is such a jackass and a stain on the human race. I really really hate him.
Was there a return envelope on this mail? I’d love to hold a personal intervention for this Olympic fuckwit.
Well done, CL. Well done.
Writer, you are a good compartmentalizer, and that is not a compliment. Much like a good child molestation groomer or a good con artist, you use your compartmentalizing to justify hurting and deceiving good people. Pretty justification language doesn’t improve the behavior. A pink bow doesn’t make dog poop a present.
If you’re sitting in those therapy sessions thinking your wife is the problem, and if only she could get better everything would be fine, you are sitting there blind. You are the real problem. But, I think you actually know this.
Here’s an example from your letter. How do:
I married my near perfect wife, a wonderful human being who is a far better person than I, not realising how much I would miss sex were it absent
And:
I was honest about all this to my wife, and she understood, but wasn’t interested in an open relationship. I loved her so much I didn’t mind, figuring as long as we had some sort of sex that would provide sufficient satisfaction.
…both exist in the same letter?
Answer: Compartmentalizing.
You want us to believe you didn’t realize how much you would miss sex if it were absent, yet you have told her about your views on sex and, it seems, discussed an open relationship, long before there was a lack of sex. Then you want us to believe that you, a person who is highly sexually motivated, wouldn’t mind living monogamously with a low level of sex.
We smell the rat, and your wife probably does too. You are and have always been, a person who will not be happy without multiple sex partners.
Leaving the intimacy issues that create that obsession aside for now… you had no business entering a monogamous relationship.
I don’t believe that you didn’t know how you would feel. I DO believe that you compartmentalize your marriage. I DO believe that you wanted her and what she had to offer you so much that you did what you had to do to get it, and now you are willing to harm her indefinitely to keep both compartments going.
I DO believe that you won’t be motivated to change based on who you are hurting as long as you are getting what you want —
her, treating you like you are important enough that going through all this and wasting years of her life on someone who doesn’t love her the way she loves him is worth it —
kids you get to show off and play with while you don’t have to be a responsible parent to them because she’s doing the whole job of two —
and sex on the side with people you don’t even understand are exploiting, you because exploitation is as natural as breathing to you.
If I could ask you for one thing, I would ask you to leave her with a big fat divorce settlement, abandon the kids early so they only have to lose and grieve you once, and never offer anyone monogamy ever again.
But, of course, that won’t happen. Because YOU.
I want to add a thing, too… I am not polyamorous, but I believe healthy polyamory does exist. It’s not an obsession and it’s steeped in transparency, honesty, and integrity. Not everyone agrees with it, and that’s OK, but we can all agree, I think, that if it’s honest, everyone gets to choose on a level playing field.
I called this writer’s desires obsessive because of the specific behaviors he says he uses to get the multiple sex partners behind his wife’s back. I support each person’s right to make their own healthy sexual choices as long as they aren’t deceiving and/or harming others while they do it.
This -‘I DO believe that you wanted her and what she had to offer you so much that you did what you had to do to get it, and now you are willing to harm her indefinitely to keep both compartments going’.
Sooo true. He probably wanted to ‘take her off the market’, like some kind of commodity, but then was annoyed that she had dreams and needs of her own!
Great post!!
I was having Olympic sex every day (some times many times a day) as an extreme form of pick-me dancing. The “Acts” involved any and all degrading things you can imagine and many that you cannot. I had frequent bruises. I didn’t want any of that — but I pretended in an effort to get my 25-year husband to stop fucking other women.
It made no difference – he just felt more contempt for me and I hated myself. Thank God that nightmare is over.
Got everything I wanted plus 20% more at the divorce plus full custody. Feeling Mighty. However, I’m hoping I never forget what he did to me and the kids and allow him to weasel back into my life, hope I stay no contact in the land of meh and heal fully and live a full abuse-free blessed life??????
I have this theory that when people get married, they often have an implicit marriage contract that they think their partner is signing. In addition to the explicit vows, there is an unspoken set of expectations for what the marriage is going to be like that one partner assumes that the other one takes for granted.
Those assumptions can come from a lot of places, from a person’s family life or upbringing, from media, from other relationships they’ve observed, but the problem is that they usually aren’t consistent from person to person.
But everyone seems to assume that they are. So for this bozo, he apparently assumed that his wife was signing on to provide him with a certain quantity and quality of sexual satisfaction. Apparently he just assumed that this was part and parcel to what a good marriage should be about, and when his wife failed to provide that, she was in breach of contract.
She never signed this contract. She was never informed of these terms. But in his mind, she had.
We don’t catch when our partners have these twisted and warped views of relationships because just assume that everyone has the same set of assumptions as we do.
For this asshole, the expectation was sex. But it’s different for everyone. For my ex, it was that I failed to provide her with the correct quantity and quality of gifts. Never mind that I had and held, loved and cherished, in sickness and in health… That I fell short of this expectation that I never thought I was signing up for… that was enough for me to be in breach of contract in her mind. It was just something she figured was obvious. And my “failure” in this area and for her to justify breaking her ACTUAL vows with me.
I agree this guy is an asshole, but I think lots of people who don’t cheat also take this same kind of attitude into their marriages. Rather than a partnership, your spouse is providing a set of services to you, and if they fail to deliver, you’re within your rights to ditch your own commitments. It’s not the kind of relationship I’d want to be a part of, but you often don’t know it until it’s too late.
Good points.
One thing I didn’t bring up in my post above yours is that his clear self-identity as a person who lies to his partner makes everything else he says suspect. Even the best of us might have unconscious assumptions. Those of us who aren’t philosophically opposed to deception are only more likely to say “but I TOLD you” when they did nothing of the sort.
Why should I expect that a known liar would tell me the truth? There are LOADS of facts missing from his letter, and what’s there might be mostly fiction spun to make him seem like the victim.
I totally see this too. People think because they are so in sync or so similar that their partners are extensions of themselves with the same beliefs and morals etc. I also think it’s a little bit like the love languages where everyone wants something different to be shown they are loved. HOWEVER if you are a real fucking human being you understand that you will not ALWAYS be 100% happy happy happy in a relationship and you either SPEAK UP or GET OUT! Just because my love language is gifts doesn’t mean I can go rob a jewelry store! And that’s what they don’t get or don’t care about. Either way.
All great points on this topic. A real human being will understand eventually that their partner doesn’t read their mind, doesn’t speak the same love language and they will love their partner for and with their differences…
So foggy on the details. (Typical.) Let me guess, the sex started tapering off when the babies came ’round, and that’s when you started in with the prostitutes. Then the sex came to a screeching halt. It turns out that some people don’t get turned on by their spouse when they feel something is off. My best friend went through this same shit with a cheating prick of a husband. She wasn’t having enough sex with him due to a medical condition. He started cheating and treating her like shit. She didn’t want to have sex with someone who treated her like shit, which he then took as a green light to ramp up the cheating, which he blamed on the absence of sex. Gosh. Wow. Hmm. SO CONFUSING, I know. (PS: She caught him in the act in a parking garage and promptly divorced him.)
There’s a good chance she’s not having sex with you because you’re a cheating asshole. While she may be unaware of the particulars, she knows how you treat her, and I’m betting it’s not doing much for her self esteem or libido. She doesn’t want to go to sex therapy because something in her doesn’t trust you, and by god her spidey senses are right.
Chump Lady – GOLD METAL today!
This, exactly.
Well said!
Nailed it! This is exactly what happened to me.
FreeVixen: “People don’t get turned on by their spouse when they feel something is off.”
Yes. Exactly. Yet another reason why the pick-me dance is doomed to failure.
Exactly this.
Such a good response, Free Vixen.
I love this blog, CL, and CN.
Wanna bet Withheld has NEVER been faithful in a single adult relationship? Kinda like my X.
Wanna bet they actually are having a lot of sex? I smell gas!
Oh god this man is insane, right?!
You really handed it to him, though, ChumpLady ahaha! I hope that wife wakes up and finds herself a husband that is as perfect as she is.
Mortal Kombat- Finish Him! Fatality!
Withheld
You’re not unique….just a regular loser who pays prostitutes for sex. Bet you get a kick out of browsing through Craig’s list like browsing through a menu at hooters.
Oh…yeah you try to befriend your hookers because you claim to want to have connection and it’s not just about sex. Dude they don’t care about your feelings and you’re a loser in their eyes, your just like the other losers they get paid for their service.
You’re a pathetic loser, a pathetic excuse for a “man” who doesn’t deserve your almost perfect wife and twin babies. A real man protects his wife and children, you’re just a scumbag with a boner and shit for brains.
I feel so awful for Mrs Withheld. I had this wonderful monologue forming in my mind, but then I realized I would be wasting my breathe addressing this man. His ‘love’ is shallow, self centered and cruel. His wife is exhausted from not only doing her share of parenting and partnering but also carrying the extra weight of picking up the slack when he takes time and resources away from her and his children. If he had even one drop of honor is his nasty, selfish soul he would let her leave this farce of a ‘marriage’ and she could find someone who treasures her and appreciates her. He is a coward who is abusing his wife and children physically and emotionally. His wife needs love, affection and support. Those qualities plus time would likely help her rejoin the Olympic Team. Sending hugs and supportive vibes her way…
We really write more for each other, anyway. 🙂
“Happened upon this website.”–How much you want to bet his poor wife forgot to delete her browsing history?
Dear Wife of Withheld: Your husband is a cheating scumbag. He expects you to be Amazing Mom with the kids, hold down the domestic fort, and then be a 24/7 sex doll. Instead of pitching in and putting his energy (and money) into the marriage, he’s paying loads of money on prostitutes and endangering your health.
Divorce this asshole. You won’t regret it one bit.
Let’s have a little Shakespeare on what real love is…
‘Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O, no! it is an ever-fixed mark,
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;’
Read it and weep Withheld. We weep for your deceived wife who has been robbed of her rights to honesty, loyalty and the chance to make an informed choice.
I’ve been caught in a melancholy moment. Give me ten minutes. My screaming, raging harpy will return!
My X actually used the first two lines on me when he realized I was not willing to wreckoncile with him. smh.
I didn’t want to alter him, I just wanted him to get the hell out of my life.
A little more Shakespeare for Withheld:
“I have purchased as many diseases under her roof….” –Measure for Measure
Think about it, dumbass, you are paying for sex, “friendship,” and DISEASE.
How stupid can you be?
If your wife reads this blog, and I hope she does, I hope the first thing she does tomorrow is schedule an STD test.
And if you have any decency, Withheld, you will take her tomorrow yourself to be tested, then you will confess everything to her, and offer her a divorce with a generous settlement so that she can move forward and care for her children.
Then, you can be free to have Olympic sex with prostitutes and get all the diseases you want without threatening your wife’s health another day.
PAY for the Olympic sex diseases, that is. (The diseases are included in the hookers’ fee.)
But out of the money you have left after you have paid generous child support and alimony to your perfect wife.
Since sex a commodity that needs to be traded in marriage, how much is sufficient? Also, what type of sex is Olympic sport worthy? I think perhaps this should have discussed before they said let’s get married and pledge faithfulness an love until death. This poor woman thought she was getting a partner not a fuckbuddy. He tried and tried and tried again to keep fucking her, to no avail. If only she would just roll over and take it,it would make him so happy. He wouldn’t have to have his “biological needs” met by some other hole that he needed to put his pole in.
Amen
Ooh… well, the real answer to your question Mr Magic Friendly Boner lies here; tell your wife. Tell her, say, N-P Wife, I am very bothered by the fact that we don’t have sex anymore (which is perfectly fair of itself), and the options are, we seek help for this or you accept that I have sex with disease-ridden sex-slaves (sorry, friends). Then, in the spirit of honesty, tell her you have actually already tried out this option and quite like it.
You have made a unilateral decision in your marriage to spend time and money and risk her health. You have deceived her, this nearly-perfect person, the mother of your children. There is no ”we”. There is you and your particular needs and everyone else is a distant second. Tell her that. Be truthful.
I actually don’t judge or condemn a person who, in a sexless or miserable marriage makes a decision to divorce, or separate, or even to open the relationship *if it is discussed and completely agreed to by both parties well in advance of anything*. Then it’s a joint ”we” decision, not a stab in the back by the person she is meant to trust above all others, the one who made a vow to stay faithful.
You deserve a terrible, terrible STD. I hope, sincerely that you get one. Chancres would be ideal.
Omissions are worse then outright lies. At least an outright lie gives us the opportunity to discern if what is being said is true or false.
“JUSTIFICATION JONES”(JJ)…Clearly disordered/BPD. “Your perfect wife” as if JJ is bestowing a title upon his wife as if he is king like… thou are a turd.
JJ does not want to be a man and divorce her because BPD types need perfect & lovely partners for their image. (as if it will somehow rub off on them)
As for the prostitute/ friends, why not get a proper divorce and “date” one of these women who you have enough in common w/ to enjoy a “friendship” and have all the sex you want, on top of saving her from a life of prostitution. You would be doing right for two women. That would be an awesome letter!!!
Why is the truth so incredibly satisfying, especially when laid out so clearly and brilliantly? I am having a hard time right now in the trenches of a horrible divorce war with my double life, cheating, entitled, sad sausage, covert narcissist STBXH, and this post just made my day. The truth laid out there, plain to see, and hilarious and brilliant all wrapped up in one. Love this so much! Thank you, Tracy!!!! I needed this!
Chump Mama, I make your words mine. I needed this so much today.
Thank you thank you thank you CL! If only all human beings had CL’s crystal clear, honest reasoning and analytic mind…
And thanks Clara for the idea of a “I hope your many hours of happy ejaculate were worth it when you’re old and alone with your colostomy bag.” tattoo for the inner thigh of our cheaters.
I must resist the temptation to send link to cheater!
ChumpMama, love your name! Read my recent posts – I just made it through the epic battle of my divorce and it was a bigger victory than I had dared to dream. Divorcing a wealthy super successful attorney who is a master manipulator, extreme narcissist with borderline personality disorder who uses THC and snorts Ritalin every day and his evil twin divorce lawyer as his negative advocate was literal HELL. But! The judge saw through it all and rewarded me everything.
Stay strong. Never give up!!!!! Huge hugs!
If I am repeating someone please excuse me. I have not had a chance to read other responses.
Withheld, those prostitutes are probably victims of sexual molestation when they were children, or drug addicts, or they were drawn into it by a boyfriend who has now pimped them out and beat them up. Prostitution is sex slavery. I guarantee that almost every woman you have had sex with would much rather be home doing laundry. Every now and then there is a sociopath like the one that overdosed the Google executive who died on his boat. She is the exception. Instead of paying a prostitute why don’t you do some research into the multi, multi billion dollar business sex trade/sex slavery is in the world. Why don’t you ask yourself if your daughter became a prostitut, if your son did what you do how would you feel? How proud of them would you be? Sometimes women who have had children lose interest in sex because their bodies are producing hormones which help them be the best possible moms they can be. Those hormones might or might not override testosterone which is the sex hormone. It does not mean she can’t have sex with you it just means right now on the totem pole you were somewhere midway. I will bet that when you leave for work in the morning you do not think about your children for the rest of the day. I guarantee your wife thinks about them constantly. I do not know if this is worldwide or not but this seems to be the prevailing way men and women in the Western world view their responsibilities. If your wife is working then she is multitasking like crazy. In her head at any given time are grocery list, laundry duties, children’s needs, that includes immunization, education, clothing, well being. She is probably thinking about what to have for dinner, how much time she has to give to her faith, if she has it, what to do about extended family, how to manage vacations, how to deal with holidays. This woman is stretched to the limit and you are worried that you’re not getting enough sex. Help her. Get in there and help her. Come home gather up the kids take them to the park, take them upstairs and read to them, do homework with them, just let her off the hook so she can get dinner ready. Help her with the dishes, help her fold laundry. And then say sit down and let’s just visit. Turn off the TV turn off your gadgets and just talk to each other. She is much more than her body parts. It’s a human being there. Why don’t you just try talking to her about her day. I guarantee she knows much more about you than you do about her.
Here is what married sex should be….a union of two people who are devoted to each other.
I see a thousand typos. This letter made steam come out of my head and I did not proofread.
Proofread shmoofread. So what if you have typing errors? Your reasoning is dead on, Let Go. Well said!
Or, God forbid that he sit down and cuddle with his wife at the end of the day, try to connect emotionally, hold her and stroke her. If he focused on pleasing HER instead of himself, he might get all the great sex he needs.
WTF???? Yeah, I had one of those too. My STBXNarc used to say he was “unique” and was “hypersexual” and asked what I was going to do about his hypersexuality when we were going through the BS-conciliation. ME, ME, ME…. that’s all they think about. Nothing about how our minds and self confidence are destroyed. How weak are they? How unique? He once told me that with his accent (he was italian) and looks, women would throw themselves at him. Yet.. he professed his love for me… the perfect wife. WEAK! Wow. After all of the mindfuckery, I lost 50 lbs in 3 months. He then said I couldn’t turn him on with my new body and that the OW had a kick ass body and she reminded him of me. Ohhhhhh and that was during the “reconciliation” period. Trash…. Yeah… not quite Meh but finally mad as hell!!!!
Your wife would have more energy for sex and romance if you would help out with the kids more, and around the house. She’s exhausted for a reason!
And also: How would you feel if you found out your wife is “attending to a basic biological need” without your consent? What if she was doing it with STD-infected male hookers? What if she was doing it with your best friend? Or her co-worker?
Just a thought.
better yet, best friendzzzzz and co-workerzzzz
Best. Response. EVER!!! I love your brutal honesty!!
For context: I was in a seven-year dead bedroom of varying levels with my now-ex-wife. She was the one who was averse to sex in our circumstances. Via years of hard work, and my patience, we got to a place where we had a regular sex life again for a couple years. (Then she cheated on me and we have since divorced. Also, we never had any kids. And to be clear, I never cheated on her during our dead bedroom.)
I do very much understand the sensitivity about how sex is viewed around here, given the context of extra-relationship deception around sex and sexual things being the cornerstone of the wrong that has been committed against so many of us, myself included. And I am on board with CL’s response here. This guy clearly thinks his needs matter too much, and he’s taking the cowardly way out, harming his wife and their marriage to a high degree.
And now let me dive into the meat grinder.
The “vapid principles” aspect of the response is stirring something up in me. During my dead bedroom, I often received the message, from my ex and from others I reached out to, that “sexual needs aren’t really *needs*”. I even got that message here from some of CN when my post was answered a year ago. People seem eager to put the word “needs” in quotes because, well, you won’t die without sex, right? And I understand the even-higher frequency of that response here, by those who have been so harmed by the sexual choices of those who cheated on us. But there are plenty of other aspects to a relationship that you won’t kill you if they’re missing, but they *can* irreparably harm the relationship. They all matter.
This guy is despicable, but it’s not because sexual needs aren’t actually needs, or because they’re vapid, superficial, or unimportant. He’s despicable because he’s putting himself and his needs so highly over his wife’s. I think that’s what has happened to most of us chumps, and we unfortunately tended to agree with their assessment of the value of our own needs. Climbing out of ChumpLife means recognizing that your needs matter just as much as your partner’s, whatever those needs may be. I think it’s best to focus more on the fact that your needs are legitimate, and less on how legitimate a specific category of need is “in general”.
*Ascends from meat grinder?*
What you’re missing is the fact that so much of what cheaters say is bullshit. Would my X mention that I fulfilled his proclivities even when I wasn’t totally on board, that I had thrush when nursing my youngest, that the cold way he inexplicably treated me made me not want to initiate sex, etc etc? Nope. He’d vaguely say that he wasn’t fulfilled in his sex life. Just like this clown. And yes, focusing on sex seems pretty vapid when your infant has failure to thrive and his devoted mom is focused on that.
Very true. Even when I was a new mom and it was too soon to have sex, I gave my then-husband bjs whenever he wanted….I would even initiate, because I wanted to make sure his needs were met. During the rest of our marriage, our sex life was good, but he was never satisfied. He wanted more (anal, other people?!). It was just never enough.
Theory, I do not want to be misunderstood. I don’t think anyone should live in a sexless marriage (unless that is agreed upon). I am sympathetic to the dead bedroom and had that in my first marriage (I now also suspect I was probably being cheated on). Being sexually rejected is AWFUL and it’s something chumps know a lot about. In fact, my first guess if you’re going through a sexual drought and you don’t have illness or infants, is that your partner is probably getting it elsewhere. Period.
You’re allowed to speak up and you’re allowed to leave. I’m not saying sex isn’t a need. However, this guy gives zero indication of what’s going on in re his sexlessness. I also think people need to get real about life with small children. You aren’t going to be having Olympic sex. You aren’t going to be getting a lot of sleep. And a woman who just gave birth isn’t feeling super sexy. Speaking for myself, I had 2 months of bed rest, muscles of jelly, and abdomen of silly putty and an episiotomy scar. Was. Not. Feeling. It.
Oh, and add in breast-feeding. One’s need for human touch is rather fulfilled when you have a human barnacle at your breast 24/7.
Young mothers are VULNERABLE. Really, incredibly fucking VULNERABLE. And frankly, I think men should tread carefully during that first 6 months to a year. Not live without sex, but not make demands for Perfection and Olympic Performance like this douche nozzle.
If you’re in a loving relationship? If you’re committed? You get it. Because guys, your turn will come. There will be a day when you can’t get it up, or you get cancer, or you’re injured, or you’re depressed — and I hope you’d want to feel valued and loved and not have to pick me dance.
It just comes down to respect. Sex is a need. But respect trumps it, IMO.
ETA, I don’t think wanting sex is vapid. I think valuing his boner and “intimacy” with many people OVER the health and care for his wife is vapid. I think his priorities are vapid.
And frankly, I think the Esther Perel’s the Dan Savages of the world are pretty vapid. Sexual compatibility is huge, I don’t deny it. But respecting your partner with honesty and honoring your commitments mean more. Or should, IMHO.
Thanks for your reply, CL.
I do get that there are many aspects to this story that we don’t have (and couldn’t trust if we were given them, anyway), and that communication about those needs is important. All the aspects about raising a newborn are valid, too. Those come to my mind less readily because I don’t have/want children, but they are very legitimate needs for couples with young children. Mothers of young children deserve the proper recuperation time and support that they’ll need to thrive in early parenthood. (Generally, I think this is an example of, “relationships should strive to adjust to meet new needs for both partners as much as possible as circumstances change”.)
I am likely projecting my own previous situation to fill in missing details here, such as timelines. I went so above and beyond what would be considered normal in order to help my ex recover from parts of her past that were contributing to our dead bedroom, but in hindsight I struggle to feel good about that.. I mostly feel regret over not putting my own needs high enough, and that I should have left the marriage years before she ever cheated on me and before the consistent sexual rejection.
“It just comes down to respect. Sex is a need. But respect trumps it, IMO.” – I agree with this, too. To me, respect is about respecting that you’re in a partnership, that both of your needs are important, and working together to figure out how to best meet both of your needs with kindness, compassion, and reciprocity.
Thanks again!
Theory
I agree. Thanks for posting. It was thoughtful and well expressed. I’m glad to read CL’s response too. I never really know what I think some days until she verbalises what I am feeling. That was a proper exploration and exchange on the subject.
CL. Just thanks again generally. Re read your entire book today. Feel settled again. So. Thanks. ❤
When the real shit hits the fan: the doctor says the big C, or HIV, or your mother can’t remember your name because of dementia, or your son just stole your car to sell for drugs, or the roof fell in from a hurricane, and the insurance agent is acting fishy, or you get the ominous call into the big office and are packing your things in a card box with a list of job agencies; demands of the penis and the vagina fade into the background.
Is sex one of life’s treats? Yes. It is the meat and potatoes of real life, real love, the kind of love that rolls up its sleeves and says, What do you need me to do? How do we survive this?
We know the answer.
This is an example of the type of minimizing response I’ve received on this topic for much of my life. I do understand the audience here will be more likely to have a negative view of sex because of its inescapable role in cheating, but I think it’s important to clearly make “someone that feels sex is very important in their relationship” distinct from “someone who is incredibly selfish in their relationship (and expressed that with dishonest sexual behavior)”.
I’m not arguing that all the other things you’ve listed here are bad, and they are valid for many people. However, this doesn’t change how someone within a dead bedroom may feel, nor make their pain any less valid. Describing sexual intimacy with your monogamous partner to “demands of the penis and vagina” is minimizing someone else’s needs. What if your list was minimized as, “what jam can my partner save me from?”. These things are something you feel are valid needs within relationships you want to cultivate, and my reduction of it to one dismissive blurb is unfair.
There are people that would place a healthy and fulfilling sex life as more important to them than the things you’ve listed. Their relative priorities are just as valid as yours, and neither side should be attacked, or feel dismissed. That judgment should be reserved for those who are selfish and disrespectful of the partners in their relationship – sexually or otherwise.
Thanks for the insight. There are two sides to every story.
This was my life – I was the near-perfect wife with children who could not fathom why my husband did not desire me. Wouldnt have sex with me. For many years. He wouldnt see a doctor, wouldn’t try to improve things. It imprisoned me to a lonely, depressing life of occasional “courtesy bangs” only to abate my distress. 12 years in I discovered the affair partner and hookers (affair partner thought she was the only OW and I was not putting out for my poor, depraved husband. Ha!) Based on my experience, I bet the only one suffering from physical intimacy is his wife.
To be fair, I’m pretty sure even Dan Savage would rake this guy over the coals for being a self-centered shit.
Theory, Thanks for the thoughtful post.
So, so perfect. You are amazing at what you do, CL. I can’t thank you enough. You’re saving my life and my sanity. You are such a good person.
I would give my autographed picture of Nolan Ryan to hear Mrs. Withheld’s side of the story.
: )
Dear Withheld,
I’ve met you. You’ll never be content. Your almost perfect wife will never achieve perfection. Your kids will always be an imposition. You consider yourself to be exceptional. Well, buddy, you are. You are an exceptional asshole who has to pay people to be his “friends.” You’re probably hoping for a free pass for your bad behavior because of your special circumstances. And you’ll be shocked to your special snowflake core when you see how quickly your wife recovers her self esteem after she rids herself of you. Have an almost perfect day, dumbass.
He just loves people. Love is good. If you think he’s bad that means your against love. If you’re against love YOU must be bad. #cheatersaresmarter #itsallyourfault #youdeservedit
DunChumpin, my cheater said he LOVED people, he loved discovering new things about people, studying character traits, getting to know and understand them better. He said it was not just about sex but about the constant process of fascinating discoveries. And me, the black and white thinking chump, can’t just get it. I said, ” Well then, why does your discovery quest take you in bed with women only? Don’t you want to discover men as well? They are part of the human race you so much LOVE!” His answer was that being a man he knows what men are like and how they are made but women are his fascination. And that I should not worry because he is done with his 12 year love affair and is just interested in the discovery part of it. He said he realised that it was his emotional withdrawal that hurt me most during his then unknown to me affair. And since he is done with that I should not feel threatened anymore and just accept his curiosity and let him be. WTF???
I got that pathetic excuse too! I’ve been holding him back from making friends and basically ruining his life all along. He wanted to make new friends! So when I encouraged that because he really didn’t have any good friends he went out and picked up the whoremat! Good on me for being a good wife and telling my husband to expand his horizons. Right into some dirty fucking cunt’s fuck hole! ? Then during the discard I was told I’m BORING. Because it’s BORING to know everything about someone. ? Yep. I’m so BORING because I’ve done a nothing but love you and build our life together as best friends and partners oh yeah and one of only TWO PEOPLE you’ve ever known in life to NEVER LET YOU DOWN that I FORCED YOU to fuck a whore. Because I didn’t really love you. But when she opened her legs and said “I love you” THAT was the real love. The real true true true deep love. Not putting up with someone’s shit and still loving them after ten years. ? Life is about “discovering” people. Not about taking care of the people that love you. ?
I dislike them all so much. I find their neo spiritual bullshit so boring and contrived. The disordered are to humanity what positive reaffirmation memes are to literature. Their sad sausage nonsense whenever the focus isn’t on them, their I suffered too lies. All of it. The total lack of self awareness. They are vermin.
As the ex-wife of a whore fucker, I’m always especially interested when the awesome Chump Lady posts anything regarding prostitutes.
Just to shed some more light, this letter “could” have been written by my ex a few years ago. Except we didn’t have kids and did have what I thought was a very active, creative and fulfilling sex life together.
My lovely whore fucking ex not only used his lunch hour to see prostitutes for (at least) five years, but he was also very active on a whore/john message board where he and other johns would post and rate whores like normal people might rate their favorite pizza place on yelp.
Of the 4,000+ posts he wrote on there that I found after D-Day, the following is one of the ones that ripped my heart into the most shreds. It was his answer to another John asking “Will one woman ever be enough for you? This was his answer. As best as I can tell, the reason my life was exploded, the reason I’m pushing 50 and newly divorced, the reason I have to deal with years of psychological trauma can simply be summed up in this one line:
“I just like to fuck other girls”
Thanks, asshole.
Here’s the post, for those of you who didn’t wanna keep your breakfast in your stomach anyway:
“IMO, the simple answer to your question is “no”. I know some guys here say they’re looking for “it”. That one girl that makes you melt. Well, I have “it”. I’ve had “it” for many years now. We can’t keep our hands off each other, I think she’s the most beautiful girl on the face of the Earth. She kisses like she means it, she fucks like a porn star, she swears like a sailor and she drinks like she’s Irish. I love her desperately with every single electric impulse in my brain and every atom in my body. Sometimes when we’re out I look at her from across the room and everyone in the room disappears ’cause she’s the only one that matters. I am in awe of her wit and passion and her kindness. I just like to fuck other girls. I can’t help it. Now she likes to fuck other girls occasionally so it’s not like I don’t get any “strange”. I get her leftovers every once in a while so it ain’t about that. I don’t know what it is. It’s like when you’re a kid and you do something bad and your Mom says “why did you do that?” and you’re like “duh, I dunno”. One thing I can say is I am not interested in the least in having any sort of emotional “affair”. I honestly just wanna poke you, pay you and be gone. If we like each other, that’s great. We can maybe even see each other on a friendly basis outside “the business”. As far as I’m concerned this hobby is zero threat to any relationship I have on the outside.”
By the way, Withheld, FUCK YOU. ” I (also) hope your many hours of happy ejaculate were worth it when you’re old and alone with your colostomy bag.”
That line sums him up. His post is a big beautiful balloon and that line is the pin that pops it.
Or it was like one of those big fireworks hanging in the air…than you read that line and it all disintegrates and falls to the ground.
And he quite well might have meant all of it, which just makes his disorder even worse.
That is so sad and pathetic. But he’s entitled to that. Not at anyone else’s expense EVER. But if the main point of your existence is to stick it anywhere it can go. Then great more power to you. Go stick it wherever you can. I just think that’s so sick and sad. At least he knows what the point of him even existing is. Too bad he had to fuck you over instead of spreading his amazingness around and leaving the innocent bystander the Hell out of it!
This is just unbelievable. I can’t even think of a coherent response. I hope he’s weeping into his cheerios missing you.
We women are such silly little creatures … on an Olympic scale. Because if you just offer up that we are “near perfect” a few times, we won’t really mind that you are off boffing hookers whenever you please. Withheld, you seem so sincere and fully invested in your marriage to your “near perfect” wife. Surely such a “near perfect” woman would give a fair hearing to your proposed solution for needing more Olympic sex from people that are not her. Of course, if she declines that gracious offer, you could knock down her rating to “good but not great” … just the fear of moving down your scale of approval might be just the leverage you need. Asshole.
If you loved your wife, you would give her a divorce and offer her the financial support she needs to raise your children. You would also explain exactly why you are divorcing, that it is your incompetence and inability honor a commitment, telling her exactly the things you did. Because if you loved her, you wouldn’t want her in the dark wondering if the problem was her. It isn’t. It’s you. No marriage will serve your needs because marriage isn’t all about you.
But I suspect you don’t really love her. You love you.
My ex-husband was awful. But at least he left and never came back.
Chump Lady, your reply to Withheld. CLASSIC…. Laughing with a snort! BOOM!
Thank you Chump Lady, this is such a great response! It’s so nauseating to hear from some men (over and over) this lame excuse that they must serve their “Magic Boner” above all else. Yeah right, as if men have been the sexually frustrated gender for centuries and rarely ever get the orgasms they so deserve. Please. The reality is even if his wife was giving him phenomenal sex he’d still be going to prostitutes. He makes her the scapegoat so he doesn’t have to face the truth about his lousy low-life self.
Another thing, Withheld: Most prostitutes have herpes. They have sex in between outbreaks. Similar to the way most women have sex in between periods, except…..it’s in between outbreaks of nasty herpes sores.
Even in between outbreaks, it’s never safe…you’re always at risk of contracting it from them. Condoms don’t protect you from this one. Yuck.
If you love your wife, and she is your soulmate and best friend, you would not be seeing prostitutes, “friends”, or anyone except your wife or your hand for sex. You are a selfish, uncaring, deplorable joke of a man. A real man keeps his marriage vows. If you were not wanting monogamy, you never should have gotten married. Your soulmate made it clear to you that an open marriage was not acceptable. You lie, cheat, and betray her every time you see a prostitute. Sounds like you have a sex addiction and are the one that needs a sex therapist to get your head straightened out. Take responsibility for your own actions. Maybe help your wife out with chores and the kids.
Chump Lady — I loved your response. Made me laugh out loud. Thank you!
Is this guy for real? When he is pecking his little fingers on the keyboard to turn his brain diarrhea into sentences and it is formed into such shit on the screen, did he not proof read and say….wow I’m quite the asshole…haha who are we kidding to think this man gets it. Friends with prostitutes? get a grip…..I hope his wife runs as fast as her 100% perfect self will let her.
I just LOVE the “we’re just friends” defense! I had to hear this from my Ex and his married whore while standing in the hotel room at the Marriott! I took one look at them both and the obvious signs that they had just got done screwing each other’s brains out and told them both that I have “friends”, but I don’t fuck them! The denials came fast!! It’s just hilarious how stupid these cheaters are! Pretty hard up for “friends” I would say, judging from the shriveled up old whore my Ex was with!
My X mentioned a story by Nathaniel Hawthorne about a near-perfect wife with a birthmark. The husband obsesses about it until he finds a way to erase the birthmark. Alas, it also kills the wife. Hannibal mentioned this story in connection with his former wife, that he kept criticizing and picking at her until the marriage died. [Note; yes I do now realize I should have run from him right.then]
But it’s telling–these narcs are out for the perfect spouse, the perfect sexual experience, the perfect house, the perfect children, the perfect life. Their pursuit leads them to kill everything that is good in their lives.
The story by Hawthorne: http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/125/
“…with her whole spirit she prayed that, for a single moment, she might satisfy his highest and deepest conception. Longer than one moment she well knew it could not be; for his spirit was ever on the march, ever ascending, and each instant required something that was beyond the scope of the instant before.”
So if she had survived his experiment, there would have been something else…Chumps can relate. And Narcs and Cheaters would take this quest for perfection as some kind of validation of their own “nobility”.
Chilling, isn’t it, Pearshaped? Both the story and the quote.
I’ve been gone all afternoon. Wanted to mention a couple of other quotable lines but I just remembered The Collector. The women he abducted always did something that “ruined” it. Talk about chilling!
Well that quote sums up the whole marriage I was in. I would never be able to “satisfy” and I would understand “moments” where it could not be, because the goal posts were always moving and I was not given the rules to the game. It is absolutely chilling.
What Withheld is really wanting is affirmation that it’s OK to fuck whores on the side while married cause he’s such a ” horny guy ” and that makes it alright.
I agree, Anita. Cake theory.
If you think prostitution is harmless, Withheld?
http://bbc.in/2kRsT4m pic.twitter.com/vefvb4LFwj
Applause to the Victorious Olympian bullshit buster Chump Laaaadyyy!
The only thing I would add is “alone” to this sentence: ” Being a vulnerable, young mother when your husband is out fucking prostitutes is HARD. ”
I knew a specimen like that. I divorced him. Now he is living with his prostitute “friend”. Poor thing, life is soooo hard.
Of course your wife is depressed. She’s busting her butt atound the house and with the kids. She’s overworked…. you are making it worse for her.
Your spending time with prostitutes … how about using that time to help your wife… buy flowers, wine, show her u care.
Of course, I did that and my wife took up with a co/worker….for I don’t know how many years?
She was caring for her mother so I thought, but realized not long after her death… the stolen time from our family….
You wife will put 2 an 2 together and it will be a difficult ride.
Those money for a “thing” would pay for a maid coming 3 times a week!
That’s how cheap my XH’s “friend” was.
Yes! He could hire maid service, give her a spa day and take her out to dinner. My ex (I don’t have a great nickname for yet) was hiring a girl in Texas for $800 an hour. But wait, there’s more: we live in Iowa so his fun included a flight, hotel room, meals and some kind of cover story like a concert or ball game. The thousnds of thousands of dollars could have gone a long way into injecting excitement into both our lives. But no, I stayed home with kids (including his from another marriage), doing all the parenting, housework, outdoor chores, working full-time and then some because we “needed” the money. “Withheld” is stealing her time, youth, peace, clean bill of health, and money. But most of all, if she is like me, he is stealing her self-esteem and confidence. All the while mine did this shit I was ignored in bed. Made to feel fat and unattractive because he subtly hinted that I wasn’t good enough. I see nnow, none of that was true. He stole my sense of self by turning all his time and attention elsewhere. Even before I knew about the prostitutes.
I have a feeling your wife already knows about the prostitutes and has lost her respect for you. Totally unsexy, buddy.
She probably gave up on you when you suggested the open marriage gig. There’s no buzz kill like that. The refusal to go to therapy is proof of her knowledge. I hope she takes the twins and starts a new life.
The threesome made me laugh “because I don’t like entirely meaningless sex”. Hahahahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh.
I’m surprised that more chumps didn’t latch onto the “open marriage” question and answer. The wife already told him no to others in their relationship, I’m pretty damn sure when she said no she meant “any” other person, which would include prostitutes, friendly ones or not.
After Mr. Sparkles and I separated, he invited me over for a beer to “talk”… I was still in a fog, so I went. He proceeded to deliver a diatribe about our sexless marriage and why THAT was why he cheated on me for 9 years. He couldn’t have sex with me because he wasn’t feeling the “connection” to me – so he fucked strangers… cuz, ya know, they’re so “connectable”.
After he shut up, I looked him in the eye and said, “You raped me.” “Every single time you came home from fucking someone else and got in our bed and had sex with me was rape. You were knowingly exposing me to STDs and your whores without my knowledge or consent.” I was balling my eyes out and physically trembling by the time I stopped talking.
Like the sociopath that he is, he stood up, remarked quietly, “I can understand why you would feel that way.”… then he walked over to the garden left behind from the prior tenants and remarked, “Do you think these are sunflowers?”
I will NEVER forget that day. That was when it hit me… I had married and loved and bred with Ted Bundy.
I filed less than 3 months later.
ICSTMH, I don’t know how many “sunflower”-like sociopathic conversations we had. But it never hit me in a way it does now when I read stories like yours and of other chumps. It’s like I have been suppressing my own rage for such a long time that I don’t even know how it feels. Should I be angry?
Every time he turned the conversation onto “sunflowers” after exctracting that precious kibble-nektar from me in the form of me breaking up into tears, I thought he was just trying to comfort me by diverting my attention. He just wanted me to stop crying. He felt guilty and was being reasonable and “shared his needs” with me and was “open to communication” while I was being “unreasonable, shutdown,with no sense of humor and unappreciative of his efforts LIKE AN ADULT to “end the conversation that was going nowhere because of my outbursts.” Poor thing, he did not know how to react to my “unreasonable outbursts that were only the result of my inner insecurities” and not his Olympic sex drive and cheating.
ARRRRGHHHH! I am soooo thankful to CL! That day I discovered her and the CN and started devouring the blog, was the worst day of my life (so I thought) since all my 12-year long fears and insecurities got validated in a couple of hours and I finally saw I was in deep shit. Now I think it was the best day….and every single day since then I discover anger……rage….little by little. I need more and more of those suppressed emotions to energise me into throwing this fuckwit out of my life.
Thank you for sharing the “sunflower” piece. I hope your life gets filled with real sunflowers.
Hugs
How fast can this young mother of twins, full time contributor to her family’s welfare find out about this horribly self-centered, conceited son of a miserable creep?
And when she does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ-aWRVm9uQ
I read his whole letter, but in my head playing over it was a minutes-long Bronx Cheer/fart sound effect. Bllplblplblpblplb.
Never has there been a more perfect demonstration of “It’s not that they don’t see, it’s that they disagree.” He simply thinks he’s entitled to the near-perfect wife appliance and his appearance as a loving supportive respectable family man, plus hookers. To hell with near-perfect wife appliance’s agency, choices, feelings, or marriage vows. What do those little malfunctioning things matter vs his mighty needs? Shouldn’t we all just nod in sympathy and lavish him with exceptions and approval? Isn’t he exceptional?
what about her needs?
Maybe she needs some sleep, some rest, a break from the kids and house chores?
Instead of hiring help, he’s hiring prostitutes!
At home, he’s sitting on his ass, doing the bare minimum, daydreaming of his “friends”. While the wife-appliance can’t find time for a thought! Kids, shopping list, groceries, cooking, cleaning, laundry, ironing, doctors, and work, what else? Presents, relatives and organising some sort of social life. Maybe redecorating according to the growing needs of a pair of twins. Did she miss anything? Oh, sex!
F U, you fake human being, posing as a husband!
This is classic minimizing bullshit on Withheld’s part. Personally, I’d just urge him to grow the fuck up. Infants and Olympic sex are usually not compatible priorities. I think sex is important in a relationship, for sure, and addressing sexlessness is absolutely one’s right, but that doesn’t mean you’re entitled to come up with, as CL says, a unilateral solution, particularly one that puts your near-perfect wife at risk!! I never felt more sexually rejected than when I was with cheaters; there are plenty of times I’ve wanted sex in a relationship and I didn’t get it. (I really hate this outdated idea that men want sex and women don’t, I’ve always had a high sex drive). But did I ever solve that by going out and cheating on my partner? No, I never did, and wouldn’t, sheerly because I know my desires don’t ENTITLE me to act that way in violation of someone else’s rights. And professionals you’re sorta-friends with (believe me, prostitutes don’t consider YOU a friend you douchebag) doesn’t make it more acceptable.
Withheld, have some decency and leave your wife (with a comfortable settlement) and try to become an honest swinger, because you are clearly not cut out for the sacrifices of monogamy or having a family. Also, you’re a dick.
Nailed it!!
Some…(relax ladies.. I said some)………… Moms should stop kissing there sons asses groveling at there beck and call and let them be men, responsible, people who view woman as “people” with feelings and not “things”…some “Moms” especially can really make “some” men feel very entitled
Yes, why hold men responsible for their own behavior if there’s a woman we can blame for it?
I sometimes wonder if these men with high sex drives just have too much time on their hands. My husband works 14 hours everyday except Sunday and works on projects until he goes to bed. He never takes vacation and goes into work even when he is very ill. His love is his work. He is not a cheater. I wonder if the wives of these men are enablers and let them have down time? My husband believes that if our kids have any down time, it would cause trouble… idle minds get into trouble… this same theory may apply to men. Require them to work hard and two jobs if needed so visiting prostitutes wouldn’t be an option.
OMG…….you are spot on as usual. What an asshole. & I am sure the wife is depressed because of him, not the twins! BTW, every therapist my ex and I ever went to said the same thing to him when he complained our sex life: that’s why you have hands.
Just saying……
For the cheaters who claim they weren’t getting enough sex at home, I have a suspicion that the cheating came first. Then due to the lack of involvement in the relationship (since they are busy romancing another woman) the sex naturally falls off. How could you have a decent sex life when the only time your cheater notices you is in the bedroom.? Intimacy is more than fucking.
Exactly, NewDay. The only one in the sexless marriage is the loyal spouse.
My marriage lacked intamacy for years. I went without through years of his inability due to prostate cancer. I recall laying in bed night after night and he never touched me. Never kissed me or held me. On the weekend he got the go ahead for having sex he told me he was dating, found someone else and wanted a divorce. All along he was preying in women to get pity.
If ever there is a sexless marriage it’s BECAUSE they are devoid if real intamacy.
new day, this is it exactly. If all you become is a blow up doll, you start to wither and there was no way that I “felt” like having sex with x when he barely talked to me. When any kind of touch was a go ahead for him to want sex, married sex should be about love and sharing, sex is just rubbing body parts together and leaving out the intimacy.
Yes!
When I discovered mine was into himself, porn, prostitutes, etc. I understood, why before he stopped even desiring sex (w/ me), I felt like he was going after me like I was a sexual punching bag often 1 -2 x a day rather than a wife he loved & cherished.
The fact that this loser expects his wife to be perfect is utter shite.
So she needs to be perfect for you to keep your dick in your pants?!
Yeah. I’m sure you’re a glimmering example of perfection. (Snark)
Can you imagine what their marriage would be like, if he’ d blown his entire hooker budget on a housekeeper, once-a-week babysitting and a monthly vacation for himself and the wife?
Maybe set up a college fund for the babies, or booked a retreat for his wife to a spa/yoga getaway?
Prostitutes were not his only option for improving the marriage and getting laid and he knows it. In fact, it’s the opposite of what would help. He’s kicking a woman while she’s down, dealing w/twin newborns and post-partum depression.
The cruelty of it blows me away.
Is there a problem in society today? Yes there seems to be a lot of women who put children first above their spouse. Is there a problem in society today? Yes there are men who focus on work or hobbies instead of their family. Yes men do not act like men and lead their families. I myself was cut off for months at a time. I felt like a third wheel inside my own home. But did I stand up for what was right and take the lead? No….. Marriages are constant work and effort. Are we trained in how? In my case no… came from a divorced family as did my spouse. I guess my point is, we all have/had our problems. Does that entitle someone to go outside the marriage? Hell no!!! Am I guilty of not being a good husband? Yes! If she had divorced me I would have understood as to why she did. And I wish she had gone through with it when she first threatened. What I found out is the only reason she did not was because her ex bf from high school dumped her. She did not want to be alone. Its kind of funny to get a few years out and somewhat figure out what happened. Her first attempt at straying dumped her. She picked up a 26 year old to ego boost herself. I was nonexistent in her world past paying the bills and watching the kids while she traveled for work. None of this shit makes real sense…. they are totally driven by their search for happiness not realizing they are unhappy with themselves. In the end we are just bystanders being useful idiots. This piece of trash is self serving and self centered. He has no idea what love is or empathy for another human means. They all should be placed on an island somewhere and deal with each other.
This is your best, most spot-on post yet! Scary to see into the mind of my ex. Despite the challenges, I am so grateful to be away from this insane way of thinking!
“Bullshit is an olympic sport”. Bingo!
Let’s cut to the chase, Asshole; You wanted an open marriage from the start & are using everyday life challenges as an excuse to live your dream. “Temporarily fulfilling a biological need”, my ass.
You’ve jumped on the whore wagon & will ride it as far as it can go no matter how perfect your wife can be.
Here’s hoping she busts your sorry ass & takes you to the cleaners.
Now THAT would be Perfect.
Pretty sure he could temporarily fill his biological need with his own hand.
Men who use prostitutes study. Prostitutes will tell you this same thing also.http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/men-who-buy-sex-share-key-characteristics-with-aggressive-sex-offenders-study-claims-10483210.html
Today’s topic is so hard for me. x’s double life was entirely sleaze of the most sordid kind. He turned out to be an incestuous child molester as well.
He comes across as such a nice guy that several times throughout the 20 years of our relationship, women and men both would tell me versions of “he’s too good for you” or “you’re so lucky to be married to x – I’d snap him up in a heartbeat.” We live in liberal Seattle and in all those years, no one knew he was a loaded-gun carrying, far-right Republican. I used to tease him for being so two-faced. He viewed it as being friendly and really saw nothing wrong at all about misleading people – because, as he claimed, he never technically lied about anything. He just hid it and didn’t contradict assumptions.
Sometimes it galls me that he’s still shining on out there but drunkenly, happily living a life that’s invariably going to end in prison or death and that people are taken in by his persona. Now that I know the truth, I don’t know what to do about it. Meh feels like let it go. But is not speaking out a form of collusion or tacit approval?
Plus, his family know all about it and do not care. They were weird people before all this but I spackled hard in order to love them. Anyway, I’m mad at them, I’m mad at myself, I’m mad at x. He’s a real creeper and he’s getting away with it. He spent all of our savings and stole $10k from my elderly mother to pay for it.
But I also hate prostitutes and Craigslist whores and webcam whores. I know there are too many women suffering, including sex trafficking (ask me how I found out), unconscionable horror stories but I also know that x had no trouble regularly spending $700 a night on a variety of services. We’ve got to follow the lead of nations that decriminalize the whores and penalize the assholes who use them
I learned way too much in a very short time about an ugly world of sex that has absolutely nothing to do with love. My soul is sick.
Yes Roaring! Its called the Nordic Model.
Chump Lady’s response to this waste of oxygen says EVERYTHING I’ve been thinking for years about my ex, exactly and to the letter.
Nothing is more important to this guy than how much jizz he can squeeze out of his worthless groin, and how many jizz receptacles he can rack up in a lifetime. He is an unevolved ape and he needs to go live with his ape brothers and sisters and get the fuck away from humans.
Monsters are real.
Farbetteroff, I think you just saved me today: Nothing is more important to this guy than how much jizz he can squeeze out of his worthless groin, and how many jizz receptacles he can rack up in a lifetime. He is an unevolved ape and he needs to go live with his ape brothers and sisters and get the fuck away from humans.
Whoa!
You are not a special exception. You use all of the same excuses the other cheaters use. You have a higher than average sex drive, just like the other cheaters. You “LOVE” people, just like the other cheaters. You’re even FRIENDS with some of the people you sleep with. Just like the other cheaters.
You’re not ready to be married. You never were. Do your wife a favor and stop sleeping with sex workers and exposing her to potential disease. Tell her the truth and stop writing off your behavior as a basic biological need. Stop painting the fact that you’re having sex with prostitutes with pseudo-intellectual buzzwords about you “loving people” and wanting to be “intimate” with people you feel attraction to. What you’re experiencing is not intimacy. It’s an exchange of body fluids for cash.
I’m not judging you for being promiscuous. Go out and sleep with everybody you make eye contact with, as far as I care. But do it as a single person. Your wife deserves better.
But I’m guessing the reason you’re not willing to blow up your marriage over your behavior, is because you don’t want to lose half of your stuff. Or pay child support. Or spousal support.
Just a thought.
Exactly. Or lose his “wife appliance”‘.
My cheater, too, could have written this letter. The similarities in life circumstances and Withheld’s mindset made reading the letter intensely triggering for me, but reading Chump Lady’s wickedly well-written response and all these thoughtful posts has been intensely validating as well.
My husband truly thought/thinks he did me a favor by cheating on me (repeatedly, hookups and affairs and maybe even some money exchanging hands) instead of filing for divorce because he wasn’t getting enough sex. “I thought I was being a good guy and doing the standup thing by not leaving you,” he said, as if infidelity and divorce were the only two options.
Leaving me my ass. I was a “near perfect” and very useful wife appliance and having a beautiful young family was a requirement for his political career.
When we would talk about his need for more sex, I would explain that because I was clinically depressed, doing 90% of the child care for a high needs toddler and an infant, worked part-time, did 100% of the housework, played beautiful young family at all of his inane and time-consuming political/business appearances, and served as de facto campaign manager, office manager, and adviser for HIS career, I just didn’t have anything more to give. I was completely tapped, I wasn’t feeling connected, and I also had real and lasting physical trauma from childbirth; that I truly wanted to work on our relationship and our life plan so we felt more connected and could be more intimate in every way. I offered concrete suggestions: Let’s go to counseling. Let’s get a life coach for you to help with time management so you can be home more. When you are home for those few hours a week, be present instead of on your phone or computer. Maybe one in every 20 times, do what I want to do instead of what you insist on doing. Maybe stroke my hair and tell me I’m a good mom and beautiful person instead of grabbing my boob. When we go on a date night, look and talk to me instead of flirting with the waitress and “working the room.”
His response: There’s nothing wrong with our marriage. You just have to give me more sex.
Yeah, he really was an insensitive, selfish pig. But because I meant my vows and valued my family over my own comfort, I was hanging in there as best I could. Stupid me. I thought we were gutting it out until the kids got a bit older and the work smoke cleared, and we could then enjoy the fruits of our labor together. Nope. It was always me gutting it out alone.
Spot on, Chump Lady!!
I, as a late middle-aged woman, have a high sex drive–would have sex a dozen times a day with a (note ‘one’) partner if I didn’t need to do anything else (e.g., raise children, wash dishes, earn some money once in a while, work on doctorate, sleep,…) However, I consider sex a want rather than a need. I don’t know of anyone ever dying from lack of sex. Ironically, I was the spouse who stayed home with young children (as opposed to having sex with various people around the world) while working on doctorate (studying, researching, running lab, teaching) while cheater husband, now STBX, was gradually covertly draining money from our bank accounts, which was supposed to go into our kids’ college fund, buying sex from prostitutes. My then-husband accused me of trying to have sex with prostitutes, neighbors, colleagues, anyone, which I never ever contemplated any time in my life, even during the many years of the marriage to him in which I was regularly abused.
I’d like to comment on a few of Withheld’s statements:
Withheld: Life is hard.
RSW: I asked then-husband why he didn’t divorce me before having sex with other people. He told me, ‘Because divorce is hard.’ Level of difficulty is no excuse for behaving unethically. Getting a doctorate is hard–doesn’t mean it’s OK for me to fabricate results. Telling people that you accidentally hit and killed their mother, wife, child is hard–doesn’t mean that you are allowed to hit and run. (A distant relative of mine had to talk to a family about a fatal car accident. He did NOT hit and run. Still cries about it years later although he was not at fault.) Deciding to resign one’s job because one will not do something unethical her boss asks her to do, even though her family will become impoverished, is hard, but some of us choose the hard path because we want to be ethical. Some of my relatives camp were beaten to death in political prisoner camp (although they committed no crime and did nothing unethical). Other relatives lived in political prisoner camp for a decade. Their lives were hard but they never complain. Although I can understand lack of sex being unpleasant, I cannot compare my ‘hardship’ with that of my relatives and many others. In using the ‘Divorce is hard’ excuse for not filing for divorce before screwing other people, my then-husband showed me that he wanted to have his cake and eat it, too, and didn’t care about anyone other than him.
Withheld: But I can’t live like this — and yet I don’t want to leave. I love and care about this person more than any other. I just need to also have sex.
RSW: If you ‘can’t’ live like this, then you should immediately file for divorce. The key phrase here is ‘I don’t want to leave.’ Freedom, and anything else of value, comes with an appropriate price, even if it is not financial. When you go to the store to pick up groceries, do you just take the food and leave no money? If you love and care about ‘this person’ (your wife), then you need to be loyal to her (not screw people other than your wife) or immediately file for divorce without blaming your wife, kids, whoever, whatever. You don’t need to have sex. I don’t need to have sex. Nobody NEEDS sex. I’m not saying that sex isn’t important. Just saying that it is not a need. Air, food, water, and shelter or life-saving clothing are needs.
Withheld: So I’ve occasionally been seeing prostitutes — I’ve even become friends with a couple, since I like people and don’t like entirely meaningless sex.
RSW: What happened to that vow to ‘forsake all others?’ If you ‘cannot’ keep your vow, then you ought to file for divorce NOW. Do you pay the prostitutes, I mean your friends, to have sex with you? I have never paid any of my friends, or anyone else, for sex. If you had never paid your ‘friends’ for sex, would they hang around you? Are you willing to introduce your ‘friends’ as your friends you pay for sex to your wife?
Withheld: My point is, this is keeping me going while I continue to try to help my wife with her problems, and our problems, and hopefully one day even the lack of sex problem.
RSW: I am not the most spectacular, talented, saint-like person in the world, but I chose not to help solve my husband’s lack of interest in sex with me problem by committing adultery (with prostitutes or anyone else). Beside, how are you helping your wife (and kids) by spending family assets on sex with prostitutes? I notice that you, Withheld, mention ‘my wife’s problem,’ ‘our problem,’ but you never mention MY (Withheld’s problem). You are choosing not to take responsibility for your own behavior, deluding yourself, or completely incapable of rational thought, in which case you should never have gotten married.
In sum, Withheld appears unethical, entitled, and completely devoid of compassion or insane. To be decent, Withheld needs to file for divorce and give his wife and kids as much in support as they deserve, which is way more than he has been giving them. Withheld’s wife and kids are getting royally ripped off–in more ways than one. Very sad to hear aberrant individuals make outlandish claims like Withheld’s.
I think it is very simple.
If you love somebody, you should not lie to them, risk giving them STD’s, spend their (marital) money on sex.
As Withheld is fine with all of the above, he loves himself. He dos not love his wife, nor his family.
He should never have got married.
I am from the Indian community and i live in Australia.
When I found him with his best friends wife, my entire circle of friends disappeared. The husbands got worried that their affairs might come to light. Apparently most of them frequented prostitutes or had girlfriend in other states.
It took a while to come to terms that an entire community backs such immorality.
Life was fun ,recovering from being stabbed in the back by the significant other and having friends treat you like a disease.
Having said that, all the divorced mothers who came forward to help.
Do these cheaters ever NOT prosper? I have the anger inside me to annihilate them!
Projecting here a bit admittedly but maybe another reason his wife appliance isn’t putting out the necessary 3 times a day, or whatever ridiculous amount this monster needs, is because he SUCKS IN BED and only cares about his own climax.
I haven’t posted in a while but I have to chime in on this one. I know we have a site devoted to just this as well as a FUCK post that says it all but to this guy I have a lot to say…
So you like sex and lots of it, after all, it is your biological need. I just cannot be helped! Men must spread their seed, they are born to do so! If wifey, I mean Chump, should not meet all these needs, well a cheater you become. But you justified it so nicely as all cheaters do.
Here is what I learned about cheaters. They are insecure, lack empathy, have no character, no integrity, they focus all these lack of’s onto adrenalin. Adrenalin makes the weak and loathy feel powerful and alive. I get that now. I do.
But here is what your Chump is likely doing.
She is:
Working full time.
Raising twins.
Running the household.
And chasing you for help.
Working full time entails, for a woman, getting showered and put together (takes time), having outfits ready to go, the ride, the job itself, the ride home. ALL DAY EVENT. Without your needs or the kids or household.
On top of that, she is likely constantly tidying up the house, running wash, folding and putting away clothes. She is doing the food list, cutting coupons, doing the food shopping and then putting into car, taking home, putting away. While you sit all bored resenting her.
She is walking in door and then cooking dinner, cleaning up. Takes a phone call or two and the night is gone and she is beat.
Weekends, there is an event to go to often. She buys the gifts and works all housework and paying bills around this. She organizes it all. She goes and buys the gifts, wraps them and has to manage you to just dress and show up. While you sit all bored resenting her.
Let me guess, too. The trash piles up and she ends up taking it out. She figures out all the money, how much you have and forecasts all funds and follows you around the house trying to get you to team up with her just to hear the outcome of all her hard work. While you sit all bored resenting her.
Now the kids, she carries babies and oh boy she just feels sexy. You would fucking complain if you could not take a shit in one day. We all know how supportive you were to her. We all know you made her feel so beautiful during her pregnancy and you constantly told her how lucky you are. You massaged her, picked up the slack.. Yup. Ah.. NO.. you sat there resenting her for how bored you were.
The fucking lack. That lack of connection and support from you. The lack you are. The lack of romance, the lack of the person you are.. oh yeah baby lets get down and let me fuck you! Sorry, being worn down while someone resents you for it and having kids does not make you fuckable pal! Only paid for whores will pretend you are.
Leave her. If you love her at all, have an ounce of character just leave. She will be raising the kids and working, doing household, bills, events anyway. Don’t suck her soul of her loyalty when you know you are such a fucking piece of shit. What is coming is more of the same, older and uglier. Leave you fucktard.
You are a no good piece of shit. Stay with your whores and leave your lovely wife. She is better without you. We all are.
And there you are all bored and resenting her.
This is the key! My STBX even said I was boring. And that he resented me at times for not giving him more sex.
I read an article that said marriages are failing because women have unrealistic expectations of marriage. That it should make them happy, be more equal and that men would change after the marriage.
All I’ve garnered from this site is that no matter WHAT the chump does the cheater is ALWAYS expecting the marriage to MAKE them happy. And ALWAYS bored. And ALWAYS resentful.
My cheater basically said so outright. He was bored staying at home on his phone. He was bored not doing things and going places. He was bored because I wasn’t wildly horny for him and begging for sex all day everyday. Did HE do ANYTHING to fix that? Did he ask me to go places and do fun things? Did he do something nice to make me want more sex? No. Because for multiple years drive our marriage I would BEG for him to do fun things with me and he put up a fight until I stopped asking. He’d stare at porn all day then turn to me to relieve him like it was some sort of special treat for me. Where do they get this idea that we are supposed to be the cruise director their happiness and when we can’t MAKE them “happy” it’s all our fault and that THEY deserve to cheat?! I can almost guarantee if you ask ANY chump how they felt about their martial satisfaction they will ALL say the cheater wasn’t doing enough. NOT that they wanted away from the cheater or wanted a divorce BUT that he cheater wasn’t doing enough in the marriage to make them HAPPY in the marriage and somehow we all managed to hang on and stay loyal. JERKS!
Wasted breath. He lacks empathy so nothing we say will miraculously make him suddenly put his family first or consider their feelings.
As we know with these wimps they have rationalized their behavior and believe the reasoning. The convoluted thinking is now their norm.
He was probably hoping that his wife having discovered us would see his pathetic missive and that he would get some sympathy and support. For surely no sane person would pen this shite and think they would get commiserations.
Lord…Lord…At least he had his moment. He off cursing the lot of us while patting himself on the back for the amount of comments it generated.
We all faced this delusion from them in person. It was like talking to a bucket of paint. Do you really really think we will reach him here?!
I enjoyed peep into another fucked up head. The whinging wuss he is. And as always I loved my CN response to shit. If nothing else we got to hone out pickers and shit callers.
Have a good night CN!
Piss off … Witheld you wimp.?
Your post and the comments prove once again that intelligence is carried on the x chromosomes-empirical evidence that men are genetically predisposed to only being half as smart as women, poor things-now that’s a reason to feel sorry for your current or past disabled sausage.
I feel so sorry for this woman being married to that jerk. I wonder if she was given the knowledge of what he’s doing on the side if she would stay or leave? I believe that the reason she’s not having sex with him is that her feminine intuition is telling her what her conscious brain doesn’t know. That she is married to an awful person.
I loved when Chump Lady used the word vapid in relation to him. These people are as shallow as kiddie pools. To not appreciate the wonder of having two new lovely little children and a near perfect wife. Wow, does he really think it’s gets better than that? And that he felt justified enough to write a letter to Chump Lady. I’d laugh if it wasn’t so sad. If he “likes people” that much that he wants to just do as he pleases, why did he get married? I hope he trips up and she finds out so she can at least make an informed decision about her marriage. I do feel bad for her though, what an awful day that will be for her as a new Mom realizing that’s her children’s father. And that she will be tied to him through them for a long time. I wish her well, she’s going to need it.
So, let me get this straight. He has the balls to stuff his Olympic worthy dick in prostitutes (which is code for he has a small dick), risk his and her health, and write you to pour out heart felt sob story but he doesn’t have the balls to divorce his wife so he can stick his small peni in whatever hole he can find so his children can have at least one parent that doesn’t die from a sexually transmitted disease. What a DOUCHEBAG!
“Near Perfect” wife, if you are reading this, pack your shit and get the hell out of dodge and don’t forget to sue the shit out of your douchebag for endangering your health and all the money you can squeeze out of him (fyi – if he’s meeting with prostitutes, he has secrete accounts and or hiding money with family members, get a forensic accountant and find it).
FYI – He sounds like my douchebag. I swear they must clone these asshats. Once I figured out that I was only “near perfect” with two young children and a full time job plus 2 part time jobs working 20 hours a day with no support or help from my entitled to have sex with the neighbor and take all the money, I ran as fast as I could.
Withheld,
There’s a simple solution to your problems. It’s attached to your right wrist (or left wrist if you’re left handed.) Solo sex isn’t cheating, it doesn’t carry any risk of giving you a disease, and it’s not a sign of weakness or not being a man, or anything negative.
On the other hand, any sex with any other person (other than your wife) is cheating, risks your health (and potentially the health of all your sex partners, including your wife), costs money, costs you time away from the house and the twins, and risks you getting emotionally or otherwise entangled with another woman (pregnancy, blackmail, etc.)
Man up and start doing the right things. Take your own sexuality back into your own hand. Suggest to your near perfect wife that it would probably be really good for her to have a night out with her girlfriends while you watch the twins. Call your mom or her mom for help if you need it (but you shouldn’t). When she’s out, don’t be shocked if she calls you every half hour to make sure the kids are OK.
Over the long haul, if want to remain married to your nearly perfect wife, you need to take care of her needs. If you do, and do a good job of it, she will take care of yours too. Until then, manage your sex life on your own, without ‘outside contractors’. There are a number of devices that can make solo sex much better, and don’t cost much. Get one or two that you like. If she finds them and asks you about them, tell her exactly what they are and why you have them.
Some might argue that turning to porn could cause other problems. Given where you’re at, those problems are much smaller than the ones you are about to have, and can be dealt with when they are the largest of your problems, not the least. And you don’t need porn to have solo sex.
Anyway, if the original post isn’t trolling, you need to understand that you’re dancing on the edge of the cliff. You might want to take a step back and think about what you’re doing before your marriage takes the long fall.
Good luck, and be smart.
Withheld,
Note for your personal growth: sex is NOT a biological need. You will not die if you don’t have it. Unlike food or water – which ARE biological needs- sex is not.
You are a total prick who is trying to justify his atrocious behaviour. In fact when I started to read your story I thought you must be related to me STBXH because you clearly are a narcissistic control freak, manipulating everyone around you for your own personal benefit only and you clearly don’t deserve a wife ( wherever she may be on your ridiculous scale of perfection) let alone innocent children who will have to grow up with a dick as a father.
Your wife is a goddess and you should be kissing the soles of her feet that she puts up with an asshole like you. You are not worthy of her at all; in fact you are not worthy of any woman’s love except perhaps your own mother – who would doubtless be horrified that she raised a wanker like you.
The best thing for you to do is divorce your wife and shack up with one of your hookers. This means your wife no longer has a c*nt for a husband, your kids can grow up without the shame of a self obsessed/sex obsessed cheating father – not a good example to your kids mate- and you can enjoy all the magic boner time you like with your prostitutes until you shoot your last load into oblivion and finally descend into darkness safe in the knowledge that you chose to live your life by your cock rather than any kind of integrity, honesty or respect for your fellow humans.
You are a complete fuckwit.
Wow you hit the disordered persons lifestyle choice ..dead on …..I could!nt have described the scum any better! Thank You!
Fine work, Mally. Thank you.
When you look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs he has put sex in the bottom of the pyramid with food, air and sleep. I swear to God when this is taught in school that is what the cheater latches onto, that sex is as important as air and water. I understand it is important and vital to the survival of the entire SPECIES but that does not mean that an individual will die without it or if they get less than what they want. It’s like, “See! Science says I need to do it!” Whatever excuse they can use to try and take the blame off of them and their shitty choices.
Hooray CL!
No, wait…aw, give the guy a break CL…. at least he’s not sleep-raping his wife like the fuktard I used to be married to, did. Often.
Wow… just walking through the archived and read this beauty. Awesome response to such a mighty Sad Sausage.
Alrighty, time to embark on my quest for hate mail. I could do paragraphs, but I think a numbered list would work.
1. He says near perfect relating to the sexual scenario. He’s content with everything else. He loves her, they get along, they’re a good team, having matching values and goals.
2. He said that delivery worsened her depression, meaning she was depressed before, only it got exacerbated by the new life stresses and changes.
3. What part of this said entitlement? The part where he said he loves her? The part where he has gone to counseling with her? The part where he has put up with and supported her issues and the children without complaint? The part where he isn’t raping her so he can take what he feels is his by right?
4. They’re both going to counseling. She isn’t taking up sex again, despite being much less depressed and having more energy.
5. He has brought it up many times and she’s refusing to acknowledge or care for him in that way.
6. He doesn’t want some strange girl, he wants her, but she isn’t putting out, so he substitutes.
7. I know it’s hard for a woman to understand, but a relationship without sex for a man is like a relationship for a woman where there’s never any praise and significant dates just get a grumble.
8. Breaking headline: Man loves sex! The HORROR! THE HORROR! TIE A NOOSE, SLIP IT ON, AND HANG HIGH THE MONSTER!
9. Typical chestnuts about STD’s and trafficking… not even going to bother with those in depth, but A) condoms B)escorts are usually independents working for themselves; as hard as it is for a sexophobic person like you to imagine, there are tons of people who choose and enjoy sex work without having a gun put to their head and being chained to a cot in a mildewed basement, C)There are no hard reliable stats on trafficking, but it’s rare in general — most “trafficking” is moving illegal immigrants for cheap menial labor.
10. The man has never lamented his wife, marriage, or the children, just the lack of sex. He explicitly said his ONLY complaint is the lack of sex.
11. He said ages, so I would not be surprised if it has been years since he’s had his needs met.
12. Saying he considers some of his working girls his friends indicates a kind of respect and appreciation for women, that he sees even his paid partners as more than just wet holes to ejaculate in.
13. A sex therapist is a therapist who is seen for sexual issues. In this case, the severe lack of sex.
14. Ah, appeal to greater problems fallacy. “You can’t be sad, don’t you know there are starving girls in Africa who got their clits cut off when they were 3 and then got married off at 7 to an old guy who rapes them every single day?”
15. He says nothing about being a neglectful husband. Caring for the kids, supporting her, working out their relationship issues implies he probably does tons around the house — you cannot have one person doing all the home tasks with twins, there are literally too few hours in the day.
16. I’m a father of twins. The exhaustion is real. I’m lucky to have sex thrice a month. I can’t imagine going entirely without. It’d probably end with an FAL and a freeway overpass.
17. Ah yes, the old “do more housework” chestnut — because when I want to get laid, all I do is walk by the missus with a basket of folded clothes and she immediately drops her panties, bends over, and begs me to fuck her mercilessly right then until she screams and my seed gushes out to flow down her legs, and when I see her vacuuming a floor, I get an instant erection and just beg her to ride me until we both pass out in a sweaty heap — NOT!
18. The problem expressed is she just doesn’t feel like banging, at all, not that there isn’t time or energy now.
19. When listing issues at the end, he names her first, them second, and sex last — not an entitled satyriac!
20. You need to get laid, don’t you?
In short, get off your high fucking horse. Lambast him for the adultery, that much is warranted, but everything else is bullshit.
Bless your heart, Feder. ????