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Dear Chump Lady, Do you think my married boyfriend loves me?

Dear Chump Lady,

I met my boyfriend while he was married (25 years) and living with his wife and two teenage children. We became friends and he opened up about not being happy in his marriage, they had grown apart, didn’t sleep together, etc. His wife found out about our friendship and insisted on marriage counseling and they did that for awhile. During counseling he could not make the decision between her or me, so she asked him to move out.

It was causing a great deal of stress within their family, so he said he was moving in with his friend. Within days he was living with me and we have been together ever since (going on 3 years now!) He is great, we love each other and have enjoyed growing together. We have since moved several states away from his family for work. He is my soulmate.

I had hoped during this time that he would begin the process of divorce, but he told me that it would be difficult because of finances and insurance. He felt that it was fine that he and his wife just remain separated. He also didn’t want to do anything to upset his children more than they are. He has one child that does not speak to him at all and another that occasionally calls or texts. Because we live out of town he doesn’t see them that often, maybe a hour every month or two (well, the one that talks to him). I do know that he talks to his wife at least once a week just to catch up. They seem to have an amicable relationship and although she wants nothing to do with me, she has stepped back to allow our relationship to grow.

My concern is that when we return to our home state, our relationship feels different. When we have run into their mutual friends he does not introduce me as his girlfriend. He has never introduced me to his children or his family. He said that his wife doesn’t want me involved with his college aged children and he doesn’t want to push it. And he says that his ex is very close with his mom and siblings and they aren’t ready yet. Our world is an open book when we are away, but when we get back to our home state I still feel like the other woman.

I have recently found out that his wife has filed the paperwork for the divorce and they should be divorced within the next 30 days. I am honestly surprised she did this and a bit upset that he wasn’t the one to handle it. Now the divorce is written to her benefit and he has turned everything over to her, (guilt I suppose). Because of this, he will be in a financial bind for quite a while and I will be the one covering our apartment, cable, heat, entertainment, etc. I started realizing that if it wasn’t for me, my poor boyfriend would be virtually homeless.

So here is the problem — is he with me because he loves me or because he is backed into a financial corner? Is he not open about our relationship with friends and family because he is embarrassed about how it started? I know that our relationship didn’t start under the best of circumstances and I have heard all of the “cheating on you” lines. But I really do love him and want this to work. I just hope he doesn’t ever think we were a mistake.


Dear Rozie,

Wow. Of all the blogs on the entire internet, you chose ME to ask for advice?

You realize I’m a chump, right? This happens every week, for reasons I fail to comprehend — OW such as yourself write to me with their relationship troubles. Heck, I’ve even found links to my articles on OW sites. Apparently, I have this unintended following among OW. Or you guys are like succubi, lurking around a site for betrayed partners, feeding off chump pain or something.

But Rozie, I’m publishing your letter because I could not have written a better public service announcement about the futility and idiocy of cheating than what you just crafted.

You’ve had a three-year long affair with a man who won’t introduce you to his friends, family, children, or anyone in your home state. In other words, anyone who knows him. Are you under an Ebola quarantine or just lucky like that?

His children won’t have a relationship with him, and have zero relationship with you. His family is aligned with his wife. He moved in with you and happily ate cake at his wife’s (and your) expense for THREE years, until she finally lawyered up  — and now he’s going to be shit broke and you get to foot all his bills.

Forgive my convulsions of laughter…

But it’s okay because he’s your soulmate.

That’s some heavy duty spackle you’ve got there. Apparently, you’re dimly aware of that, or you wouldn’t have chosen the screen name “Rozieglasses.” Rozie, you’re not looking at your situation through rose colored glasses — you’re looking at it through psychotic delusion.

Poor sausage might be homeless. Thank goodness he’s got you there to save him from the wretched consequences of divorce. Just like you were there to save him from the wretched unhappiness of his 25-year marriage. The marriage he refused to end. Now it’s ending for him  — and not advantageously!

You attribute that to guilt? Rozie, judges don’t look kindly on men who walk out on their families, and then shack up with someone else for years. What you’re attributing to his magnanimousness is really just his chump wife finally asserting her power with a good lawyer. She’s given him a tiny taste of the shit sandwich SHE was dealt with his betrayal and abandonment — only he deserves it. A consequence. A fair settlement to the mother of his children. The children he walked out on.

Oh the injustice! How did you think this was going to go down? I’m guessing you didn’t think much past how very much he “needs” you and how super special you are. Make sure you get HBO with that cable package, okay?

So here is the problem — is he with me because he loves me or because he is backed into a financial corner?

He’s with you because he’s an ordinary, soulless cake eater. He doesn’t love anyone but himself. He loves how of USE you are to him. His wife was of use to him too, as the front for his family and childcare for his kids, but she put an end to that shit. Now you’re stuck with him (or, excuse me, “backed into a financial corner.”)

It’s not a question of love or money. It’s a question of cake.

Is he not open about our relationship with friends and family because he is embarrassed about how it started?

No, I doubt he has any shame, and neither do you. He’s not open about your relationship because cheaters like to keep everyone in nice contained zones in which they don’t talk to each other. It’s easier to maintain cake that way, no one compares stories. And it saves them having to keep track of what lies they’ve told whom.

I know that our relationship didn’t start under the best of circumstances…

Yeah. Him being married and living with his wife and children wasn’t exactly optimal.

and I have heard all of the “cheating on you” lines.

You’ve heard them, but do you comprehend them?

But I really do love him and want this to work.

Rozie, it’s not going to work. I want Wendy Davis to be the next governor of Texas. I want thinner thighs. I want world peace. Me loving Wendy Davis, my thighs, or world peace isn’t going to make those things happen. Ooh… I’ll just put my thinking cap on and LOVE harder! lovelovelovelovelove… Nope. The world didn’t budge. Guess I don’t have super powers.

Neither do you. You “loving” this idiot doesn’t make what you’re doing any less destructive, hurtful, pathetic — or unsustainable.

I just hope he doesn’t ever think we were a mistake.

Oh, I doubt he thinks that.

I’m sure he’s congratulating himself for lining up a sucker to pay his apartment, cable, and heat.

The question is — why don’t YOU think this affair is a mistake? Scratch “mistake”, because affairs are deliberate choices. Why don’t you think it’s a really shitty thing to have done to his wife and kids? I know empathy is a stretch for you, so ask — why would you make such a shitty choice for YOURSELF?

Good luck puzzling that one out, Rozie.

This column ran previously.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • “They seem to have an amicable relationship and although she wants nothing to do with me, she has stepped back to allow our relationship to grow.”

    Bitch go fuck yourself.

    Such a typical cheater narc response.

    Do you really honestly think the wife had your needs in mind when she stepped back ?

    No. She stepped back to protect herself as she was in pain. She stepped back because she was being viscerally betrayed.

    Typical OW c@$& response. Stop triangulating yourself with a woman who’s been betrayed and whose family was abandoned. You are nothing. You are a tool.

    • “bitch go fuck yourself”
      PERFECT! best response ever

      Stupid delusional skank, twat, pos cunt. All of these OW who know what the fuck they are doing and STILL are doing it. FUCK YOU you bunch of wanna be’s. You wanna be his life. GOOD LUCK. Your just cake. THAT’s it…

    • getting real – yesssss!!!!! Hope the OW reads the “Bitch go fuck yourself.” I was blown away reading this self centered pos sad love story. Boo hoo. Rozie your an idiot. Get a clue. Your just another pawn to the game. You think there is any good/loving reason he hasn’t introduced you?!?! And bitch please the wife stepped back to allow your relationship to grow?!?! Wow DELUSIONAL and PsYCHO.

      • That wife seems like such a nice person.
        Did you listen what he’s been telling you about her? When she’s so nice???
        Can you fathom what he says about you, when you’re … so little???

        As others before have said: stop comparing yourself with THE wife. You are nothing

        • OW are their own special kind of stupid. I believe that a delusional OW would genuinely be confused as to why her “man” wasn’t proud of her.

    • YES! YES! & YES!!!!!! can only shake my head……

      Bitch, go fu** yourself indeed….AND the horse you rode in on!!!!

    • But..but..she’s specialllllllllll!!!!!!!!!! Of course the wife would care about the whore’s needs! The whore won her soulmate. I’m sure the wife realized that they were soulmates and gracefully stepped aside to let their love blossom. Barrffff! Whores and cheaters love the triangle, they love the triangle.

    • Lol. It’s so textbook. What? The chump has feelings too? Yes, you soulless freak of nature, we have human feelings like love, affection, loyalty, and when those are betrayed, pain, disappointment, and grief. I know that’s hard to grasp when your only modes are cake and smug.

      My ex’s OW had the unmitigated gall to be angry with me because he expressed that he was worried about me after D-Day. Apparently I was supposed to be a character in their great love story who was written out immediately for convenience.

    • Oy, that line got me too. “She stepped back to let our relationship grow…”

      Yes, I’m SO sure the wife’s thoughts were “Hmm, what can I do that will allow my husband and OW to have a more fulfilling relationship….”

      BULLSHIT. She doesn’t want to meet you because it rips her HEART out to even see your face. Or she’s backing away because No Contact is the only way for her to rebuild her destroyed self-esteem. Because you have contributed to the destruction of her family and her every drop of energy now has to go to financially supporting her single-breadwinner home and being the rock for her kids since hubby dumped that task in her life. She’s too damned BUSY to coddle you….what do you expect, she’d want to come over and redecorate your bedroom for you so you and her husband can have a better-night’s sleep????

      Question for the OW: if her cheater-man is so happy about their relationship, why isn’t he acting proud about it back at home, instead of slinking around like a guilty dog? I wonder this every day about my STBX…who has yet to even tell his best friends here in town that he’s “dating” someone now…if he’s so happy with her, why hide it???

      Hmm, I seem to be a little pissed off today. These posts hit so close to home lately.

    • What Getting Real said – “Bitch go fuck yourself” I couldn’t have said it any better – round of applause!!!!

    • I got a letter today about the vitriol in the responses today. And I wanted to post my reply on the whole anger at OW thing. I’m YEARS out. I feel meh about the long term OW in my story. But when I was living it, I felt further hurt by her. Really I see now she was pick me dancing her heart out and making me the Bad Guy — and I was making her the Bad Guy too when really it was the sick fuck puppet master I was married to. Of course she sucks, she knew he was married. (She was an OW in his other marriages!) But in retrospect she was deeply fucked up. I don’t need to call her a bitch, or a whore, or a cunt, or whatever derogatory term we have for Bad Women. She’s pitiful and irrelevant.

      Anyway — I try to strike a balance here and let this be a safe place for chump anger. This was my reply to the vitriol concern… And why I published this letter.

      I appreciate your view, and I share it somewhat. I don’t like the vitriol either, but I GET it. And I’m YEARS out from the experience. I’m doing a balancing act. I’m trying to get people to “meh” — accept it, move on, don’t give it real estate — AND I’m also trying to validate chump’s anger.

      I’d say nearly 100 percent of the discourse on infidelity says you have no reason to be angry. You must forgive. Mistakes were made. You drove them to it. You must accept your part in your abuse.

      Chump are humiliated, they’re victimized, and yeah, the affair partners are party to that. They aren’t innocent. However, they ARE irrelevant (because if not them, it’d be someone else. The point is your partner betrayed you) — but it feels very personal. Add to that experience that many OW (it’s always the OW) taunt the chump, amp up the abuse, cyber stalk, cyber bully after discovery, send chumps letters on how to parent their children. Think of every stupid mistress column in Cosmo or HuffPo on how awesome the fuck buddy is and how wive’s need “wife school” to please their man….

      Okay, and then the faux feminist OW (there is nothing LESS feminist than being an OW IMO), who is so much more sophisticated than the chump — you silly goose believing in monogamy.

      Chumps are right to be furious — and so they lash out using the language of sexual shame on the OW — slut, whore, home wrecker, cunt, etc…

      I’m about taking back your power. This person is pathetic. The cheater isn’t a prize. Walk away.

      I also try to create a safe space that honors chump anger. I don’t want to say in the Angry Place. But I get that it’s part of the grief.

      The woman in today’s letter provoked my snarky wrath because she’s asking for SYMPATHY from the very kind of person she helped fuck over — a CHUMP. I’m sure she doesn’t see me that way, but it takes a lot of narcissistic cluelessness to ask me for relationship help with her married BF.

      • The one therapist who I went to briefly told me only 2 things of any use, but they were useful enough to warrant having seen her.

        The first was that my husband was one of the feorst narcissists she’d ever seen, and I needed to get myself out of the relationship immediately.

        The second was that I needed to work on my ability to get angry.

        It seems we chumps tend to have a real problem getting upset with things we are very entitled to get upset with. We accept too much blame and don’t get angry enough at the real source of the problem.

        It took me about 6 or 8 months to internalize that and to actually work up the anger I needed to remove myself from that bad situation. But by golly, once I got angry, I got ANGRY!

        So yes, once time goes by, we do all realize that none of the ick that happened would have been possible without our cheater. They were the source of all problems. But during the shock and grief, it’s easy to use the tools which they used to get you to keep feeding them cake as tools for your anger also.

        It is very sad that OW are so clueless and misguided, but it is what it is, and karma’s a bitch. Eventually, that becomes enough.

        • Just come across this old post.

          I completely agree with you as I was in the same situation. I had no anger after D-Day, because it had been conditioned out of me by my cheater. If he ever did anything wrong to me, and I showed a negative reaction, suddenly I became the bad guy. All the attention was on me- my reaction, my anger. This allowed him to escape consequences and any focus on what he’d done.

          It also made me afraid to express anger.

          I now recognise it was a manipulation technique on his behalf; another form of abuse. I believe he did it subconsciously, but that doesn’t excuse it.

          So I agree with you wholeheartedly. Anger is a natural and healthy human reaction to being treated appallingly.

          Vitriol can be unhelpful. But it’s an understandable response. Perhaps it’s an appropriate response in many situations?

          Anyone who tries to shame a chump because of their anger should consider very carefully why they are doing that – what it says about them.

      • ‘I’m about taking back your power. This person is pathetic. The cheater isn’t a prize. Walk away.’…
        My first D-Day I was enraged. Enraged that some woman dared to try and take MY man away. And I hated her. Hated the bones of her, while I danced the merry ‘pick me’ dance. It was a competition. I would win my man from her and leave her (and her remarkably chubby butt, for someone with such a flat chest) bereft and alone.
        Ha. That would show her.
        When I finally kicked him to the kerb, it was with the realisation that, even if he went to her (he didn’t); even if he gave her the babies she soooo wanted (he didn’t); even if they lived a life of twoo wuvv, she was irrelevant. Nothing. Nobody. Could have been any of the countless members of his personal ‘harem’ (was just the one dumb enough to have sex with him). These women are broken, unloved, unimportant. Did my ex and the OW end up living a life of twuu wuvv? Who cares…
        You, fellow chumps, have not lost. You have escaped.

      • Chump Lady for president!
        I started laughing at “She was an OW in his other marriages!” and could not stop.
        Indeed, how irrelevant and pathetic one must be when the guy divorces and goes out to find a new wife? The whole pick me dance was in vain. And she sticks to this creep!?!?!?!?!?!?
        And then the story repeats itself. These people do not learn.
        I mean, it sucks when you learn from your own mistakes, but when you don’t learn your lesson? That’s beyond fucked up. A truly irrelevant human being.

    • The real story…..

      She/ the wife stepped back because she was in complete and utter shock after being betrayed, sobbing on her bathroom floor and believing the crap excuses her husband gave her about his cheating being “her fault.”

      Thankfully – she found chump lady, got a lawyer, and filed

      • Feel we are become a little familiar with our bathroom floors, TiredChump. Thank goodness for Chump Lady. X

        • I thought it was only me sobbing on the bathroom floor. So badly that my boys could hear and called my mom who was so wonderful. I hate that other people had to experience this but am grateful other people shared that they had the same experience. I thought I was weak. Thank you.

          • Nope… me too. But fetal position in the shower… on Valentines day, two months after the big-reveal D-day #2.

            I was still in zombie-mode at this point, but I broke-down in the shower thst morning. That evening, my darling, sociopath husband showed off the new phone upgrade he picked out for himself.

            See, he had been eaten-up with jealousy for a whole month, because after the D-day, he had upgraded my phone, but it was a newer version than his! He couldn’t stand that, so on Valentine’s day, he got the newest-released version for himself.

            He proudly showed it off on Valentine’s day, but didn’t do anything to express his love for me, or that he gave a damn about reconciling the marriage.

            I needed lots of clues like this one, for a while after. But eventually, I divorced his sorry ass.

  • Oh wow. I knew people like this in my 20s and 30s. Where the cake seemed so delicious. But had a weirdly bitter flavour. And I thought it was sad that they didn’t think they were worth more. I’m so sorry you feel you are in love with so much baggage. Long term relationships create meaning. Even with the disordered. I could write a novel here. Please value yourself more. They may seem worldly and fascinating. But they just haven’t worked it out.

    • OMG Rozie …What don’t you get !!!??? No one is happy for you!! You are a secret to his family because it is wrong to cheat. You are a secret to his friends for the same reason. You are a secret because he is not proud, ..he is ashamed. You are hated by his kids because you destroyed their family. You are hated by his family for the same reason. There are times when love is wrong, like cheating with and loving a married man. I’m sure he thinks you are worth it. Well you wanted it, so have at it.

      • Roxie you should be happy his wife filed for divorce because now you can become his NEW wife and do it better than her! Soon you will realize that his wife was the winner in this affair! You stoked a lemon?????????

  • It never fails to amaze me how these idiots think they will just walk on in and take over everything and the world will be a better place cause they found each other. Doesn’t matter there was a wife of 25 years who used to have a partner/friend/lover/husband. Doesn’t matter there are two kids who used to have a Dad that wanted to do things with them until she came along. Or an extended family that loved these three and now don’t get to see them at all cause he hooked up with a slut. Nah….just forget all that and look at ME ME ME.. Don’t you see I’m here now – I’m the big picture. I even take care of him and support his worthless homeless self now (can you say Karma bitch?) cause she filed for divorce!! The nerve of her to try and regain self-respect – who does she think she is? Everyone should accept my wonderfulness (just don’t look at those three little people smeared under the soles of my feet) and treat me special cause I won him – he loves me and we were meant to be together.

    I don’t know when this ran originally but it could have been me and my two kids as the story is eerily similar. The reason I held on for another three years is simple. I was in shock. I couldn’t believe this man I loved more than anyone would turn his back on me. I couldn’t believe this man would turn his back on HIS two kids who thought he hung the moon for them and that he would rather spend time with another woman and her two younger children. I couldn’t believe there was a worthless whore who would take that love from me to further her own agenda. But I have learned the very HARD way that yes – there are bitches out there who will do this stuff and then stand back with a shit-eating grin and wonder why her world isn’t perfect now. She won.

    Well Sweetie – enjoy your prize while my kids and I go on and get a life free of a cheater.

    • WhoamInow, pretty much sums up my life. He traded his family (2 adult daughters), loving (non-cheating) wife of 32 years for a married cheating whore, with four young kids and herpes to boot! And yes, this bitch too, has a smug shit eating grin on her face. She disgust me. My ex look miserable – but he had a chance to save our marriage, but must have thought his life would be so much better with his upstanding/respectable whore. True love.

    • Yes, yes! So true. We won the new luggage and I can’t wait to watch their “we are in love and have so much in common” relationship implode!

    • OMG could have been my story, with the narrative written by his 2nd OW that he hooked up with during separation when he said lots of things…he’d go to counselling, work on parenting skills, file for divorce…none of which he did because he was busy sticking his filthy dick in her hole (probably wanted to shut her pie hole – she’s a psychopath). That absolutely worthless female has already been discarded and emails me trying to be girlfriends. WTF? Whore. Says she’s his “next victim”, and we should really talk and I shouldn’t judge her until I know her. OMG, really? This addict/whore has nothing, is nothing, and hangs on to him as a meal ticket (she won’t move out). Yes, she steals from me and my kids because she won’t get a job, so XH can’t pay his court ordered contribution to our joint expenses (thankfully I have his wages garnished for child support). What a downgrade – even from whore #1 – which is pretty revolting, but a different story altogether. I think she lurks here…so I hope she sees this and recognizes my screen name.

  • “…cheaters like to keep everyone in nice contained zones in which they don’t talk to each other. It’s easier to maintain cake that way, no one compares .”

    The one and only time I met the whore I caught my now ex-narc-husband out with — I met her at one of my exes ho-workers home parties. Whore came up to me and was a smiley in my face. Ex said, “This is Whore.” I said, Hi, Whore.” Ex walked away and she moved on to other people.

    Fast forward two years. I’m reading the flirtatious emals between them. She said, “I didn’t get a chance to talk to you at all at Joe’s party………”

    Well, of course my ex didn’t talk to her. He didn’t want her to blurt out in front of me that they had been meeting for secret coffee dates before work for the previous seven or so years. He didn’t want to hear her disclose family and or private stuff that he told her at that coffee dates.

    And now the ex is dating this whore who he told me was “just a friend.” “All I want from her is friendship.” “She’s sexless to me. I can’t tell whether she’s a male or female. She’s just a friend.” “She’s just a healthy female friend.” Oh, and he continues to tell my ex-pastor that he’s being “pure.” Yeah, right. And they were dating or seeing each other since I moved out, so that would be considered adultery, because my ex-cheater is not the pure type of guy.

    And once again, I’m surprised to see when the OW sends a letter to Chump Lady.

    • I’m not surprised. These sub-humans have no life, what do you expect them to do?
      Stalk ex-wives, current wives, lurk on chumpy sites and forums.
      They are NOTHING so they desperately try to cling on anyone.

      Rozie skunks out there, go f*k yourself. That’s all you have!

  • All this dawns on her when the bills are in her name and the money flow stops.
    Keep your soulless mate and spare the rest of us from your ‘mistake’. You belong together.

    • I’ll never get why so many of the hos that write into this site pay for the D. I thought it was the other way
      Get some self-respect and find a partner you don’t have to pay for LW, yesh.

      But yeah, sounds like a match made in hell.

  • and I DOUBT his assertion that “his wife wasnt giving him “any”” in the start of your relationship …
    That line is a dime a dozen!!!
    You felt sorry for him and gave it right up to him, didnt you?!?!

    • What is that?! Like where did that come from? I want to know when the world decided that “she won’t have sex with me so I HAVE to fuck a whore” EVER became an acceptable excuse. Why? Why does the world think that “we don’t have sex” means ANYTHING in the grand scheme? What? He’s not a grown fucking man that can LEAVE at ANY TIME? He’s a PRISONER in his own marriage? He is LITERALLY TRAPPED? Tied down in a basement and tortured?! No! They are so feeble and pathetic. Sex is NOT the center of the world or existence. I’m sorry. It just isn’t. Unless you are a fucking 16 year old. It makes me so goddamn SICK that chumps’ lives are worth less than a dirty gaping fuck hole between some slut whore’s legs and a few orgasms.

      • And a lot of these guys are getting it at home it just isn’t enough, or not the right kind or the wife didn’t show enough open enjoyment of it.

        • Exactly! And even if they are having great sex often, they still want strange, something different, some new pussy. It is so disgusting. It really makes me wonder if I will ever find a man who is not ruled by his dick.

      • Sad Shelby, relax. Some cheaters cannot handle the wife in the bedroom and they still get a sidepiece of meat.
        A disgusting piece of meat, to top it off.
        While the wife is a rocking queen!
        I’m thinking Hugh Grant, Gavin the looser Dale, golf champion and so on

        I’m wondering when will Chump Lady make a radiography of these cheater loosers. That would make for fun and Karma stories 🙂

        • Or the idiot no name who walked out on Lynn Johnson (For Better or For Worse) for some looser “soul mate”. I mean really? Lynn is beautiful, talented and highly successful. She also showed a lot of poise when it all came out in the news. At the time I thought “My God, how could anybody be so stupid”. Little did I know that my own husband would turn out to be one of the stupid ones too.

      • Cheaterpants told his OW that our marriage was “in name only,” we had been “in-house seperated” for over four years, and we hadn’t had sex for “months and months. At least since early last year, and that was just a one-time thing because we were trying to see if there was any spark still there.” (He started pursuing her, a coworker, in March of 2013, so this story means we hadn’t been intimate since early 2012). She bought this hook, line and sinker.

        Oh, to have been a fly-on-the-wall when one of his other coworkers asked him in front of her about me right after he and Howorker had taken their flirty e-mail/sexting to the next level and started actually dating and getting physical. I mean, RIGHT after. Literally the Monday following their first “official” date over the weekend.

        Harmless coworker asked him right in front of the Skanktress if I was happy to have crossed the milestone into the second trimester of my pregnancy.

        The Skanktress was definitely as dumb as a box of hair, but even she was able to figure out that Sex Makes Babies. I mean, it took her about three weeks after that to dump him (see: stupid), but even her reptilian brain proved unable to make the reality of my rapidly expanding belly match up with his lies.


        • I went out just two times with a guy a while back and his story was that the Mrs. had basically deleted him out of their life and they never had sex or spent any time together. She wanted the house and the kids but didn’t really want a husband. So he spent the weeks down in my part of the state in a rented condo and was back to his part of the state on weekends in the house to spend time with his kids. Supposedly the Mrs. was not around when he was there on the weekends. He said he had filed for divorce, etc.

          All I could think while he was telling me this story was “isn’t this every cheater’s story ever”. Yes – they all say the same thing. I guess this letter is a testament to the fact that it must work sometimes, because when I hear that story, I immediately think “cheater.”

          • I wonder how your dialogue with him went:
            “What’s your problem: you have commitment issues? Cannot stand your own kids more than 2 days a week? How many other chicks have heard this bul*?”

            • LOL – I never had a conversation with him… I just deleted him from that little digital corner of my world and moved on. I don’t really know what his deal was, and I don’t really care. It’s possible that he was telling the truth and no sense in stirring up trouble for no reason. And even if he was lying, it’s not like he is going to admit it to me.

              My friend asked me last night how I stay so calm with dating. I said “I simply take it day by day and refuse to get myself in a spot where I have to have those ‘what do you want’ conversations” like I did for YEARS with my ExH. Actions speak louder than words. My bullshit meter is strong. I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about “well he did this, but what does mean?!?”. I live my life. The right person will slot into it when the time is right.

      • Shelby, they’re pathological liars, lack of sex sounds good and has potential to gain pity and understanding while blaming Chump for not meeting his needs.
        In reality cheating is used as a power to make up for one of the perceived injustices bestowed on them by their spouse (chumps).
        Chump didn’t load the dishwasher correctly, that bitch, I’ll show her.., who does she think she is asking me to empty the trash? they will vilify the chump to justify and excuse their cheating.
        His “needs” weren’t being met, Chump is Bi-Polar, he’s suffered abuse from Chump
        as he dabs fake tears from his eyes, what was Cheater to do? who could blame him for seeking comfort in Bambi’s crotch?
        It isn’t considered cheating if Cheater was unhappy.. Lack of sex is apparently a popular and justifiable excuse, blames Chumps lack of “affection” for destroying the relationship and marriage while Cheater maintains his great guy image.

        • Funny how if it’s a sexless marriage because of the cheater refusing to have sex with the chump, they never share that tidbit with the AP (or the person they are trying to swindle into being an AP).

          Trust that they suck!

        • The dishwasher comment stopped me in my tracks. Seriously, when I asked husband how he could cheat on me with OW#1 AND OW#2 he had the nerve to bring up that I critiqued his dishwasher loading skills. He felt he wasn’t “good enough”. WTF. This was all before I found out about OW#3. He’s still with her. Good riddence!

  • I have been dying to tell this story, but hadn’t found the right place. This is not my story and so I will muddy the details a bit. But main points are still true.

    A few years ago, guy leaves his wife for OW. Buys a condo in hottest part of town. Sees his high school age kids on their terms, on their turf (ie at their activities, restaurants in their suburban area, etc) OW has three kids that she has to leave with her EX because, though in the same metro area, distances are now to far for them to stay with her.

    Guy buys her kids a very nice car to go back and fourth between their dads place and his.

    Wife finally files divorce after a very long time, cause he hasn’t. OW thinks he filed eons ago. (I suspect he was cheating on OW when he was allegedly meeting with his attorney, court etc). She isn’t the brightest apple so it never occurs to her to look up the filings on line (and she was divorced herself, she likely knew the system)

    Within a few months of wife filing, Guy drops dead.

    His entire estate passes to wife. OW gets evicted from condo (she tried to fight it and lost) and both her car and the kids’ cars were in his name so Wife gets those too. OW tried to argue that he had made certain promises, but it was irrelevant because nothing was in writing. OW was apparently surprised to find out the situation with the divorce filing, too. And finally, he was relatively young, so I am certain he never spoke of “if something happens to me, then….” to the OW.

    I see his kids from time to time. My understanding is that they are doing well.

    And finally, the obituary was hysterical. The Wife wrote it and made one final, but very subtle, dig at him. Only those really in the know would have known.

    • Nice karma story. Cheater drops dead and the OW gets screwed. Faithful wife and kids live happily ever after. 🙂

      • Now that story made me smile. In a the OW ate that shit sandwich kinda way. Feel bad for his kids tho.

    • My X still has me as the beneficiary of his life insurance policies. That’s right, plural. I’m sure OW doesn’t know that, though.

      • My X has me as the beneficiary and after three years I finally received a copy. The amount has changed to a quarter of the original amount. This was court ordered in the settlement. His was originally higher than mine.

        I would suggest that anyone who is entitled to a pension from their X to be sure they are listed as the sole beneficiary as part of the agreement.

        • Doingme, I made sure I’m the beneficiary on cheating H life insurance policies and no way can he change it, since I took them out thru my work. Also, daughter is the beneficiary on mine and if I drop dead he won’t get a dime.

          • I own the life insurance policy on him, and I pay the premium. If STBXH dies in the next 27 years, I get $1 million dollars. Bwhahahahahhahahaha!

      • Which raises a good point–anyone in the throes of divorce/settlement, who is getting child support from the cheater should have WRITTEN IN to the decree that cheater must have a life insurance policy, with the chump as beneficiary, to cover all future child support. And write that the cheater has to supply written evidence of beneficiary every year.

        • I would add that the cheater has to give the chump permission to request a copy and be notified of any changes in the policy for its duration. Have this put into the decree for pensions as well as life insurance policies.

        • I’m at that exact point now. Our mediator is writing into our decree that we each must maintain $500K in life insurance, with the beneficiary being a mutual trust. The trust attorney explained that the trust will sit empty unless one of us dies, in which case, the deceased’s life insurance money will fill the trust, with rules on how much can be taken out and when for child support, educational costs, etc. It’s a smart solution.

    • Awesome story. I made sure to include in our divorce decree a requirement that he has to maintain a significant amount of life insurance naming me as beneficiary until minor daughter turns 18 (11 more years). If he dies between now and then, ho-worker gets NOTHING. And she is living in the house he bought for them right now but her name isn’t on the title nor is it on anything else.

    • Made me smile. I think there would be a market for a collection of short stories with happy endings for the chump. Bedtime stories to read when you can’t sleep. Thanks for sharing.

    • Man, I would have just put it in the obituary: “X passed away on blah-blah date. he is mourned by his children, parents, siblings, and girlfriend.”

  • Yes, Rozie, I’m sure that:

    He is secretly proud to be with you.
    He is planning a romantic proposal involving doves, a flash mob, and a 3-karat ring.
    He will alway be faithful.
    He will soon become the breadwinner for your household.
    He will want to have kids with you.
    He will remember your birthday and your anniversary and will insist on celebrating them extravagantly.
    He will consistently show his appreciation for all you’ve done.
    He will do most of the dishes and all of his laundry.
    He will protect you financially and emotionally.
    He will stay with you forever.


    Rozie? More like Crazie.

  • Dear Rozie,

    do you know why he chose YOU?

    1. you are dumb
    2. you were available

    Have you never heard the phrase ‘a woman can fake an orgasm, but a man can fake a whole relationship’? As long as his stomach is full and his balls are empty, you will do.

    Consequences are such a bitch. Your selfishness in caring about yourself over the desperate pain of a woman and children and the fracturing of their sacred bonds – why are you doubting? Let your selfishness carry you through.

    • Yes^^
      She was available. After XH left, I discovered he had been talking to multiple women trying to get them to rescue him from his horrible wife. And apparently the dumbest one said yes.

      • Elle

        Classic cheater move and narrative. The key word for the winner is indeed ‘rescue’. Any adult woman with integrity would catch on to the exaggerated horror story they create to devalue their wife. However, the OW will justify her actions by telling herself she is rescuing him from this horrible neglect and abuse. To be the winner she will have to rescue him in a hotel room and within a very short time.

        It was interesting that the winner, Nanthony wanted to continue with the triangulation long after I stopped engaging. Evidently, she had no idea I was the one to serve him the papers. She was shocked. Hmm….yup, he lies.

        • Any real woman would hear “Boo hoo hoo. My wife is sooooo _____________ and we don’t have sex” and say “hmmm that’s sad. Why don’t you leave her since she _______ and you don’t have sex?” Normal people hear that self pity shit and RUN! But I guess it’s the specialness of the sparkly snowflake. I’m SO AWESOME it would DEVASTATE my idiot wife if I left. (Which is why she’s withholding sex. Too scared of my awesomeness I guess.) But since I chose YOU for my secret side fuck that means YOU are so awesome too! Look at us! Let’s revel in our AWESOMENESS!

          • Has not everyone in society been suckled on Lifetime TV plots and Enquirer magazine headlines? How thick does a person have to be to buy the “I’m in a loveless marriage” line?

            • And in my case, the OW was in her 50’s and twice divorced. You’d think she’d have been a little bit wiser.

          • That’s funny, when I hear “my wife and I never have sex” I think, man, you must be a terrible husband or really lousy in bed.

            • I heard of a true story of OW who believes her married lover’s claim that he and his wife never have sex anymore.But after she start having sex with him.Only then she began to realise her lover is very lousy in bed.Starting that point.She was telling other people.No wonder why his wife refuse to have sex with him.

  • I second getting real’s sentiments:

    Fuck off Rozie.

    You’re a stupid, slack-jawed moron lacking humanity, dignity and self-respect.

    Go get your prize ?

  • “Our world is an open book when we are away, but when we get back to our home state I still feel like the other woman.”

    You feel like the Other Woman for good reason…you ARE the Other Woman. He is still married. That makes you the affair partner–i.e. the Other Woman. It is what you signed up for by dating a known married man.

    • +1,000 and YES YES YES. Your actions show who you are and you ARE the OTHER WOMAN for life.

      • The Limited stays far far away with the whore. He’s embarrassed and for good reason.

        Can’t put a spin on that, classless pig. It’s obvious he’s a total moron. No one respects him including his family.

    • Isn’t it amazing how many OW do not think they are the OW? It’s some sort of disconnect between action and consequences for these folks. As I have posted before, OW was “born again” and extremely religious. Yet she was able to not only justify her conduct, but also to convince herself that it was my wicked ways which were keeping her from a Godly relationship with X! She actually introduced X to a number of the members of her church community and conveniently failed to tell them he was married (I don’t think they were fooled). Seriously? The twisted thinking of these folks is staggering; the rules of common decency simple do not apply to them because they have a “true love that cannot be denied.”

      • Yikes, this is precisely what happened with my Ex and his OW (now Wifetress)! He actually started attending church for her and now teaches vacation Bible school and other stuff. I guess Jesus can be found in some pretty obscure places (insert imagination here).

      • Violet- I hate Jesus cheaters. I had one too! Mine also served in the Marine Corp and was completely delusional . After I filed for divorce and had to move in with my parents, he hung a Semper Fi flag outside our house while he fucked the OW in our old bed. Apparently he forgot Semper Fi means ALWAYS FAITHFUL!!! What a dumb fuck!!! I hope they all burn in hell.

      • My ex and his LTA ho attended church together too! MY church. WITH my children in tow. And none of my fellow congregants ever bothered to mention it to me on the Sundays I was there. I don’t go to church any more…

  • As my mum always said, “Why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free?”
    You Rozie dear, are the cow, and “soulmate” is milking you for all the milk.
    Ahh, the romance!

  • This article ran previously…..I’m wondering how this all turned out. Rozie, would you like to update us?

    • I think the bubble popped as soon as she faced the realities. I guessing the wife got a legal separation to protect herself and her children as soon as she dumped him. With this you can have the judge sign it at any time.

      Wife was smart and probably set herself up with a better life.

      Skank HO probably moved on for someone with$$$.

  • “and I have heard all of the “cheating on you” lines.
    You’ve heard them, but do you comprehend them?”

    “I just hope he doesn’t ever think we were a mistake.
    Oh, I doubt he thinks that.
    I’m sure he’s congratulating himself for lining up a sucker to pay his apartment, cable, and heat.”

    Enjoy your Karmic bus ride Rozieglasses!

  • Soulmate. Hmmmm. I had one of those once. My high school (and beyond) boyfriend. Our relationship went on forever. I met him before I could even date, and we were off and on for over a decade.

    He was OK looking I guess, although I thought he was gorgeous. We didn’t really have a lot in common. We broke up a lot. Or, rather he broke up with me a lot. We didn’t really do a lot together. Drink. Get high. Have sex.

    Here’s the kicker. Even though he treated me like DIRT, he always told me he loved me, wanted to get married, I was the One, etc. Kind of like your guy. He created confusion in my mind. This lead to a trauma bond, or false love (or limerence) as some think it does. There was no logical reason for me to be with this guy, so he had to be my Soulmate, right? In my personal opinion, that’s usually code for psychopath. Just saying.

    Years later, I finally realized I wasn’t actually this guys girlfriend, I was an unintentional other woman. He never told me and I never caught him but I wasn’t the main girlfriend, I’m pretty sure. Basedon your story, I bet your guy is cheating, either with the ex or someone. That’s why you are still a secret.

  • Uh oh. I’m going to stick my head over the parapet but quickly…
    I do feel sorry for Rozie. Her post seems genuinely bemused. She really does not get any of it. The pain she has and is causing, the way things are going, why he seems to be saying one thing and doing another, why his wife is doing what she is, why his kids are being ‘off’, she can’t even make the link between what he is capable of doing to his long time wife and children and what he already is doing to her. She KNEW that he was married and thought she was different, she believes he is in love with her.
    We all know what has gone around is already coming around for her, we can all see what lies ahead for her and she can’t. When it happens to her she will doubtless be wondering what happened to her soulmate.
    I don’t know but it makes me more sad than angry. She feels to me like she has been totally sucked in to his bullshit and has tied everything she is to him. I guess I’m a sucker for any kind of sad sausage.
    He is the one with 100% blame. I would not go so far as to say Rozie is a victim because she isn’t. She has made all the wrong choices it is possible to make, helped to destroy a family and can’t connect the simplest dots. I mean – she posted here for advice (wtf).
    But I know we all have suffered and are suffering so much but I just feel we can be, not better than that but use her response to learn and help us. Not just tear her to shreds.
    Sorry if I am coming across as all holier than thou or critical. Not my intention.
    Rozie just doesn’t seem to get it on so many levels she feels like easy prey. And more than likely she won’t get why all the hostility.
    She seems completely fooled by him herself and still can’t connect the dots.
    Anyway. Just me today maybe. My three OW no doubt have justified what they did so they can live with themselves. I just think it’s all sad today.
    Can’t find my anger towards any of them. They, at this point, don’t matter. I matter. My kids matter. There will always be ‘Rozies ‘ in the world with varying levels of intent and maliciousness. This one just seems clueless. Its my cheater I reserve my hate for. He played all of us to some extent.
    Hope I haven’t offended anyone.

    • Rosie is also 100% responsible because she knows this guy is married and has all along. Just because she’s getting fucked over doesn’t take away the responsibility for her actions. Just my opinion.

        • Thats where I’m at – I feel like she is just sucked into all his bullshit and she’s either desperate cause a man, any man, is giving her attention, or she really is just clueless. She’s convinced herself he’s her soulmate and his ex stepped out of the way for their love to grow – we all know that would never happen – we are that ex or that wife who is on the other side. So fuck no, no wife would do that for “their love to grow”. She came here for help and advice, With what everyones said, if she still choosed to be with this asswipe, then she deserves to be with a no good, free loading, cheating, fucktard.

    • Cap, I agree she seems a little bit dim. And like you, my tender heart hurts for the dim ones who are sitting on the railroad tracks bleating that the train will never come because they are too special to be run over, when we clearly see it bearing down on her.

      Our empathy is part of what makes us such irresistible catnip to the personality disordered. It’s almost impossible for me to turn a blind eye to suffering, even when it is their choice. I think it is a leftover from my childhood where I often felt very alone, and that no one cared if I was hungry, or scared or alone, or in pain. I wouldn’t wish that feeling on my worst enemy. Essentially, it’s that inner abused little girl that is afraid of those feelings. So I nurture her with hugs, and remind her that she doesn’t have to make the world right, that she is just a little girl. I also remind her that everyone has lessons they have to learn, and that those lessons that are especially painful might be the most necessary for growth. She and I don’t have to fix everything. We can just be responsible for our own life, and it’s OK. Hope this makes sense.

      For the really malignant ones, yup, I figure they have it coming. For the dim bulbs, I sort of feel a little sorry for them. They are in for an education of epic proportions.

    • It is kind of you to feel empathy for Rozie. That is what decent people do. And it is true, many times women like her end up in a very bad way. I know that is what happened to the OW in my marriage. She truly lost it all-home, marriage, financial stability, relationships with some of her children. She came out much worse when X finally dumped her.

      Even after all these years, though, I can’t make myself feel bad for her. Why? Because hers was a calculated gamble. She knew she was either going to take the table or go bust, and she was willing to risk the well-being of her own family to make that gamble. What loving mother would ever do that? The sheer ruthlessness of her conduct negated her victim status.

      Rozie is not the victim here. She has free will and the ability to kick this moocher out on his ass. He is playing her and she is perfectly happy to let him. Her biggest concern should not be her OW status. It should be that she is living with a freeloader, who is going to stay until her money runs out…or he finds someone with a bigger pocketbook. Rozie is the victim because it is the part she has volunteered to play. The ability to change her victim status rests completely in her own hands.

      • Agree. She is not a victim. She had countless choices along the way and had the knowledge that he was married and had a family. Regardless of what lines he was giving her, those were FACTS that she knew.

        Do I agree that the bulk of the responsibility of the hurt goes to the husband? Absolutely. But that does not free her from her part.

    • I had a somewhat similar takeaway — it often seems to me like the burning question a person wants to ask is simply not the right question.

      She asks, does he love me, or is he just with me because (fill in the kibbles of choice here)? That question is useless. Both are probably true. It’s not a fool’s choice – both can be true at the same time.

      Questions that are actually useful:

      Is any amount of love worth this shit circus he’s putting me through?

      Can he possibly love me the way I want to be loved if he could treat any person the way he treats his wife for any reason?

      If my best friend was in my shoes, what would I want for her?

      If my best friend was in his wife’s shoes, what would I want for her?

      Would I ever consider acting embarrassed of him, or any person I value, for any reason?

      We have to face up to the right questions. Then the answers get clearer.

      Rozie was really asking CL to tell her that her situation is different and special, whether she knew it or not.

    • Capricorn-
      Rosie totally “gets it”. She is not confused. She is not lost.

      She knowingly and happily shit all over someone else’s marriage and now has the sadz when everything is not perfect for adultery fest.

      There are billions (billions) of men in the world, and she viciously & doggedly pursued one that is married?


      How about Rozie and the OW reading this site right now, reach down in their wormy soul and find a scrap of morals, ethics, decency, accountability and NOT FUCK AROUND WITH MARRIED MEN. It’s so easy.

      Here’s a primer.

      Nancy: Are you married, engaged, living with someone or in a committed relationship?

      Bob: Well, er…uh…yes, but it is a dead marriage. We sleep in separate bedrooms! She never fixes Spaghetti Bolognese like my Mom!

      Nancy: Bye.

      Bob: But wait! I am filing in one year, when the kids finish up at Brown, when she gets through with her chemo….. We never have sex!!!

      (Nancy is seen stomping his foot with her spiked heel, hailing a taxi and shooting him the bird as it drives away….)

      See? It’s simple.

      For Rozie/OW to now act dazed and confused, worried- that a relationship built on deception and treachery might be shaky or iffy? Gall the size of Mt. Denali. Entitlement like a Ted Bundy lite.

      You did not offend me, because I see this type of moral relativism often..saw it up close and personal. With cheaters and their apologists. It is repugnant.

      So you remember this maudlin pity you have for a vicious, entitled ass wipe who gleefully took part in fucking up and destroying someone’s marriage when you have the sadz about adultery in your own marriage.

      I hope it makes you warm and gooey, HEALED….to embrace the OW’s pain.

      “The friend to everyone is the friend to no one.”

      • Butterbean

        “So you remember this maudlin pity you have for a vicious, entitled ass wipe who gleefully took part in fucking up and destroying someone’s marriage when you have the sadz about adultery in your own marriage.

        I hope it makes you warm and gooey, HEALED….to embrace the OW’s pain.

        “The friend to everyone is the friend to no one.””

        I get your disagreement. I get your anger. I get that you were offended.

        But to write this to a fellow Chump who is trying to sort out how she feels about herself and her three OW and her anger and sadness?? How she feels about her 22 year marriage that blew up ??? How she feels about her own three struggling kids??

        I post here knowing it’s usually a safe place to express stuff I’m struggling with. I acknowledged that my view of this poster was probably going to be unpopular but it is how I feel. I have been subject to much cruelty in my life and I don’t like to see it whether it is deserved or not.

        I stand by what I wrote. Feel free to disagree but I would suggest not deliberately wishing more pain on another chump. There is too much of it going around as it is.

        • You should stand by how you feel. There is no wrong or right. We all have different ways of reacting. You’re trying to see it from all sides. That is one reason why we are chumps. But we’re learning as we go.

          I’m sure Butterbean didn’t mean anything person – most of us here are angry and hurt – at different stages. But when we read stories such as this, it brings up all that anger and hatred all over again.

          You keep doing what you’re doing Cap.

        • Well said, Cap. I’d rather see the stupid in people than the evil in them. (Not that I usually succeed when it comes to my ex and the OW.)

          I always appreciate your thoughtful contributions and perspective.

        • Cap, you absolutely stand by what you wrote! That attack on you was out of bounds. Please don’t let this keep you from posting here. I very much value your insights and comments.

          Big hugs to you my cyber friend.

        • Cap, your readiness to sympathise and understand is honourable but I don’t believe this Rozie is that kind of clueless fool. The phrase “she has stepped back to allow our relationship to grow” really bothers me. It smacks of such arrogance. Maybe she is an idiot and just repeating the arrogant bullshit the cheater feeds her, maybe. I still don’t buy it. She doesn’t sound that young to me. She sounds profoundly self-absorbed. After 3 years in this relationship, she should start to see things more clearly. I know my mother was one of these idiot OWs who bought the soul mate BS, the dead marriage, the promises. I know she was a good person in many ways. But I also know she was incredibly arrogant and selfish to get involved with a married man with small children. People like that often have serious FOO issues, daddy issues (usually an abusive bastard of a father), that’s true. While we can be understanding to a point, I think that understanding should translate into setting them straight. Without the vitriol, but still, she’s got exactly what she bargained for.

      • Wow Butterbean. I’m not okay with attacking a fellow Chump. That is not cool at all. She is entitled to her opinion as are you. But we support each other here, not attack.

    • Capricorn, I couldn’t agree more.

      If these cheaters can get one over on us, their loving spouses, for such long periods of time (mine was 20 years), then I can easily see how these same cheaters could con a stupid, clueless OW into hopium, and belief it was some sort of a soulmate situation.

      Yes, she knows he’s married, and she should respect that enough not to get involved. But our culture, all our movies and TV soap operas, teach that sometimes you find your soulmate and they are married, but it will have a happy ending. If you’re dumb and impressionable like Rozie I can see where you might believe all this malarkey!

      Heck, most of us here had more than one D-Day because we thought we could “save” marriages that were never really marriages in the first place.

      These cheaters are soulless and good liars, and THEY are the ones who deserve our wrath really. THEY are the ones spinning stories to give their OW hopium. The responsibility is totally on them. If they are clueless like Rozie and not being blatant assholes about the wife, anyway.

      Capricorn, I think a lot of the blame and hatred and outright name calling comes from those who are not far out from D-Day and need to go through an angry phase.

      Like you, it makes me sad for all of us that these entitled pig cheaters put us in these desperate situations.

      Karma will take care of it all.

      I personally want Rozie to contact the wife. That will give her the whole picture real quick and, I believe will alert the wife to a situation of which I believe she is still totally unaware… filed for divorce, my ass… that’s a line to string the OW along and get more money out of her. I think the wife just thinks he goes out of town on business a lot and has no idea. Better that the OW alerts her so they can both get checked for STDs ASAP, dump the cheater, and move on!

      • DanceswithMeh–that is an excellent point you make in your last paragraph! I hadn’t even considered that (…just a line to string OW along…) but as soon as I read it in your post, I thought, “Yes!”

        • “I know that that filing must have been so hard on you, dear. I’m picturing you on the courthouse steps- is that where you were, in your home town?”

          He’ll think you’re duped, while meanwhile, you put in a call to the Records Office.

    • I applaud your sympathy, Capricorn, but would add this–my 13 year old daughter (at the time) knew that having an affair was a bad thing that violates social and moral norms. My 18-year old daughter (at the time) was the one who told me to file on her father. When you are the OW, the harm you are doing (even if out of naivete) is worse than the sympathy you might be due, IMHO.

      My sympathy is reserved for real, unwitting victims.

      • “But I know we all have suffered and are suffering so much but I just feel we can be, not better than that but use her response to learn and help us. Not just tear her to shreds.
        Sorry if I am coming across as all holier than thou or critical. Not my intention.
        Rozie just doesn’t seem to get it on so many levels she feels like easy prey. And more than likely she won’t get why all the hostility.

        What I have learned from the OW is that they are all cunts. I could gives fuck about their bullshit justification to expect empathy or support to connect the dots. Lying? Cheating? Entitlement? This is what allowed her to believe his bullshit.

        I was in bed with the enemy for 41 years. There were many ‘special’ ones. All cunts. Every last one.

        Let’s not change the goalposts for anyone who cheats. Mimdfuck, don’t fall for it. She’s not innocent

        • Yes and for all we know, “Rozie” could be a complete troll made up to torment chumps.

      • I understand empathy. I am here because I excused behavior that was inexcusable for a long time. I had empathy for people who mess up. I still do, but mess up 3 times & it’s a problem that has nothing to do with me. (One of CL’s book recommends said this & it stuck!) I didn’t angry about being in an abusive cycle until one day I saw everything for what it really was. Blinders off. And now, “Katie Bar the Door”, I don’t buy any of his BS. I don’t have to. I don’t have to make everything ok and hope he figures it out one day. I don’t have to try and lead by example because he’s never going to change. And I can make mistakes! And it’s ok. Who knew?!

        We all make our own choices. Rozie wanted to believe the lies, for whatever reason, because it served HER. It filled some need in her to hear the crap, & she made a decision that has huge ripple effects on the wife, children, and everyone’s lives they touch. She knew it at the time & knows it now. I’m guessing she’s hoping their ‘love’ can redeem the horrible act she’s done.

        I don’t have empathy for the character disordered at this point in my journey. I see them as delusional. What they see is real to them & no amount of good information will help them see that things are not that way. A schizophrenic who sees bugs, sees bugs. You are never going to convince them that the bugs aren’t there. A character disorder is the same way to me. It’s how they see it, who they are. Get them out of your life if you don’t want the pain. They will drag you through so much heartache you’ll wonder why life is so hard & it will never change.

        Thank you a million to everyone who posts here. You have given me strength to carry on, good advice & good people to identify with. Big hugs.

    • I get it Capricorn. Rozie sounds young and naive….and stupid. Even with all the facts staring her in the face, like you said, she STILL is not connecting the dots. She STILL is not asking herself why this is acceptable to her and WHY she would be a willing accessory to destroying a marriage and a family.

      I was a stupid barely 20-something that had a summer affair with a guy who was engaged. I told myself “he’s not married” but it’s the same damn thing, I knew it was wrong, I was desperate to be loved and I accepted (not believed) what he told me….she stayed in another city instead of moving in with him to plan their wedding, blah, blah, blah. NO matter. My sister was furious with me and I refused to listen to her. She told my parents. They threatened to stop paying for college. I knew they were serious. I stopped seeing him. And life got better. More peaceful. I left at the end of the summer and never talked to him again. They didn’t get engaged. Smart woman. This is an embarrassing confession.

      • BUT you didn’t torment his fiancée. Did you give her std’s?You’re a good person who got sucked in?

        • This OW lied with him for 3 years. Her concerns were only about herself.

          She came here asking chumps to validate her concerns once the gravy train stopped. For her it wasn’t about self reflection, rather justification.

          This is typical narc behavior. Never once did she mention how this impacted his wife or family.

          Three years was no mistake. She’s not a victim.

        • Ginger, No STD’s and no tormenting the fiance. I got sucked in even though I knew better. I thought about that all day yesterday. Feeling that shame all over again. I hadn’t thought about that in years. If I could go back now and have a conversation with my younger self, boy, the things I would tell that girl. She needed someone to tell her the goodness within. That others would see it too. I was a little fish in a big pond at college. Anyway, I gotta leave that insecure girl in the past. I’m going to live in the present now and have hope for the future.

    • No offense taken here. I think you are correct for this chick. She really is clueless. I personally harbor no ill will towards STBX’s Schmoopie 1.0, probably because that affair is long over and she has been thoroughly dumped, although I don’t feel sorry for her pain either.
      Schmoopie 2.0, however does get a portion (although lesser than STBX’s portion) of my anger because she was deliberate in her efforts to manipulate STBX away from his family while we were supposed to be reconciling and he was supposed to be no contact with her (ha ha). She would “break up” with him (while no contact), then wait a couple of weeks and then suddenly ask him out on a date or drop by his office at work or something and he would forget family and be all obsessed with her all over again. One night she was out with her husband and he apparently stranded her at a restaurant (probably because she told him to shove off) and of course she calls STBX to get a ride home and well “I can’t just leave her there” (doesn’t she have any other friends?). And she is just so caring and understanding because just after our meeting with the MC where he told him he was ending reconciliation because it just wasn’t working (because he didn’t want to do the work), she sent him a “how do you feel?” text, poor sausage. These are the kinds of things she does and STBX is deliberately clueless. He admits he is doing wrong but he thinks she is innocent of any wrongdoing, that he is the one taking advantage of her, and that she really “cares” for him. Also, her STBX cheated on her too so she knows darn well how much that hurts but doesn’t care. She probably thinks she is special because her STBX didn’t leave her for OW, but she was able to get my STBX to leave me for her (although I am the one who actually had to initiate the divorce and do all of the work to keep it on track because he wasn’t/isn’t). Apparently after he moved out she was still “hurt” because he was spending too much time with his kids and she believed (or wanted him to think she believed) he would just end up going back to me and leaving her with nobody after she left her husband for him (cue the tears, sniff sniff). What a way to guilt him into sticking with her. And he’s buying all that crap. I am trying to look on the bright side, however. I get the kids, he gets Schmoopie. I win!

    • I’m so bitter and broken this week I’d like to take Rozie and all the members of her sisterhood and run them the fuck over! And then I’d like to do it again!

        • Honestly. I have better and worse weeks and days and this has been the week from Hell. I don’t know what it is this week but I have spent hours of every day for the last at least 5 if not 6 days crying. I don’t know. I’m just so sad and weak and angry and hurt it’s insane. I’m just having a hate fest of misery. There is NO REASON anyone should be in this situation and it’s just made me so bitter and angry this week. ?

    • I hear you and agree. When I made my will right before going into surgery (cancer), I left a letter for OW with my best friend explaining why she (OW) will inherit 10K- for the sole purpose of retaining a family law attorney. I also included links to helpful resources. I don’t think OW is evil – rather I see her as someone who is unhealthy, with such poor boundaries and low self esteem that she is so screwed up she has no idea what she had gotten herself into. I truly hope that one day she wakes up and understands there are things she needs to fix in herself. On this level I do feel compassion for her. And I don’t want her to become financially trapped and abused the way I was, although it is nearly certain this will happen if she doesn’t wake up. Several years on the other side now I am grateful for the catalyst (infidelity and lying) that helped me finally wake up, leave, and start working on myself.

      • Hmmm … do you live under a bridge? It sure smells like it. What’s your last name? Dam Things, Russ, perhaps Norfin?

        Sorry but I’m not buying this treacle.

    • Even before I was a chump, when married man flirted with me I was disgusted. When I was young a friend was in the situation of “dating” a married man. My response was if he’s that interested in you shouldn’t he be single? Ick. He sounds like a jerk.

      So, I think this idiot OW and the “husband are both 100% in.

      • Me too. I actually had a married acquaintance send me a really inappropriate message on Facebook. I unfriended, blocked, and sent a screen shot to his wife before I’d even really had a moment to register how gross it was. It was like pure instinct. In my opinion, that’s how we should all respond. The cheater gets most of the blame, rightly so. But I don’t have a shred of sympathy for the OW/OM who gets involved knowingly. (Those who were told the cheater was single get a pass as long as they don’t know. Can’t blame them for being lied to.)

    • Cap, I can see where you’re coming from, but to me, this OW’s cluelessness is not innocence or stupidity or gullibility.

      It’s entitlement.

      She’s not a victim, she’s yet one more person who wants to do what she wants to do, without ever thinking of consequences. And one more person who will be all sad sausage when the consequences of her choices arrive.

      The only way I’d see it otherwise would be if she were extremely young, and of very low IQ.

      • Let me see if I can explain this. Those of us who were raised by cluster “B’s” were subjected to prolonged and multifaceted cruelty as children. For years. Often times we wound up essentially raising ourselves. In my case I was beaten regularly, severely neglected and would have been removed from the household by the authorities, if I hadn’t been sent to my grandparents at 18 months. At five I was taken back by the narc-rents after they relocated to another state where they weren’t known. The abuse resumed. Physical, psychological, emotional.

        When you grow up as a scapegoat in a family headed by disfunctional, personality disordered parents, every day is D Day. Abuse is a daily fact of life. At age eight I had decided that my parents were crazy and my mission was to survive long enough to get the hell out of there. That is probably why I am relatively sane as an adult.

        This is not a feel sorry for Tessie bid. This is an explanation as to why those of us who were raised by narcs react to cruelty and abuse the way we do. Such an upbringing left me with a deep sensitivity to cruelty and suffering of any kind, because I have been that person being abused. I strongly suspect it is the same for my brothers and sisters with similar backgrounds. I personally am not saying that I condone the shitty behavior of any OW or OM. What I’m saying is that my heart greives a little bit for anyone who suffers, because I know first hand how it feels.

        It takes a long time to heal from this, if we ever do. As LAJ has said, I too, will probably be in therapy the rest of my life. That sensitivity is there for a reason.

        • And that’s why some of us were chumps for so long. We had to believe someone thought we were special.

    • It is definitely possible to see someone with compassion even if that person is totally horrible. It doesn’t mean you condone their choices or you think their behaviors are justified. It is possible to clearly understand an idea or a person’s motivation without agreeing with it.

      I think it’s cool, Cap, that you can do that. So many of our weaknesses in life are just our strengths that have been pressed to extreme versions of themselves. Being too understanding made us chumps, made us try to forgive and trust when it wasn’t good for us. However, being understanding makes us compassionate, and that’s a positive quality, when held in balance with other qualities. Applied correctly, it can even be the key that allows us to learn to are for ourselves enough that we don’t let people hurt us like that anymore.

      Thanks for sharing your views. 🙂

    • I like your fresh perspective.

      But I have a very hard time separating Rozie’s stupidity from others’. I’d wager that many cheaters and AP’s believe that they’ve found their true love, and are therefore willing to bend reality to fit that storyline.

      A friend/colleague of mine, Raymond, once asked to see a photo of my ex. The only one I could easily locate was one online in a newspaper, showing her newly pregnant and facilitating a public meeting.

      And in that photo, she looked wholesome. In fact, she always looked wholesome. But Raymond didn’t get it. He’d thought she was going to LOOK like a skank–all trashy and showing cleavage, heavy on makeup, etc.

      My point to Raymond, and others, is that very very very few people are OBVIOUSLY “evil,” whether physically or otherwise. No one thinks of himself/herself as a “bad person.” My ex wife was an amazing, kind, and loving person…but she was also a manipulative, lying cheater. Was she “evil”?

      In my definition of the term, yes. I know Hanlon’s Razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

      But my wife was stupid enough to believe she could get away with cheating and blaming me. Was she malicious? Perhaps.

      But I’m beyond parsing out the intent behind the harm. Adults are not children. Ignorance is not an excuse to hurt people. That’s the excuse of children.

    • What an informed, articulate, well thought out response. I’m sure there will be many who will disagree, but I am not one. I am sure Roxie is being lied to, taken advantage of, and played….very much like her boyfriends wife. It is sad, but not surprising. The responsibility lies with those who have betrayed their spouses, and the anger belongs there as well.

      • Agree most of blame goes to cheater but when ap knew they were married didnt care and made numerous attempts to hurt me and insert her ass directly in my marriage and my divorce no fuck her.

    • I’m not going to blame you for having sympathy for her – people are rarely 100% evil. However, it does seem that her stupidity is willful – which makes me less inclined to feel sorry for her myself. She knowingly got into a relationship with a married man and is now shocked, shocked that he’s lied to her about filing for the divorce and is more of a user than it seemed at first. Because lying to and using his wife was not at all a sign that he would do the same to anyone else, no sir.

      She believes him because she wants to believe him, because that’s the only situation in which she’s not a bad guy. She made a deliberate decision to start something up with a married man, and in doing that, chose to subscribe to a world-view where he’s not a lying scum-bucket – because that would make her a sucker and a selfish bitch. Her naivete was deliberately embraced in order to justify her shitty behavior, so I can’t say that I pity her when said naivete bites her in the ass.

  • Rozie ,

    I will share a quote I read on this site awhile ago, ” (sic)… Yes, X (your married BF Rozie) is a KNOB. He’s YOUR knob now!” – MJ Eustace (I think that’s the spelling of her name.)

    BUWAH-HAHAHAHAHA! You’ve been punked. Good luck with that.

  • One way or another, the bill always comes due.
    This particular other woman gets to spend her life guessing where she stands and constantly off balance. My other woman gets to lose the respect of her soon to be ex spouse and all the spine tingling drama she got from getting one over on me (the clueless wife). Everybody pays in different ways but people who play the role of new and exciting “other” in a bizzarre love triangle usually inherit what the betrayed spouse punted down the block.

    • I’m more angry with the Cheater, AP is who she is, I have no expectations from her except that h

      • My anger is directed at my X, we exchanged wedding vows, promising to love and cherish.., til death do us part, I believed he was my best friend, the person I loved and trusted most in this world. I had his child, I’m not perfect but I tried my best to be the best wife I knew how to be.

        If a super model, walked into X’s hotel room naked and begging him to fuck her, I felt confident that my best friend, husband, person I married and planned to grow old with would refuse, say no and ask her to leave.

        I didn’t exchange marital vows with his AP. She is self serving with a lack of morals and empathy, also ignorant to his lies.
        Cheater had a choice and he made the choice to destroy our marriage and did.

        • Mine is living alone and working 13 days out of 14 to get by and pay his credit card debt, only gf he has is overseas and pretty sure she’s not interested in his broke ass now that it has all been revealed, she’s married, childless and has a wealthy husband.
          Oh well it’s what you wanted ‘ you don’t own me’ good luck cooking those ordinary meals for yourself, having no heating and having lost a great women who put up with a world of shit from you, oh and not hearing the chaotic ramblings of your beautiful boys.
          I’m ok not a lot of spare cash but enjoying not being ranted at, job performance has come back from the brink and I think I may dip my toe in the dating pool. The chump in me feels sorry for him now and then as I don’t think he thought this was the way it would pan out, oh well deal as they say. You got your independence.
          Oh and I have dropped nearly 10 kg gone back to yoga and he says I look fresh and 10 years younger, yeah thanks I do, glad I didn’t throw out those old clothes
          Hope he thinks in the middle of the night ‘what the fuck am I doing with my life’ it may be slowly dawning on him but self reflection never lasts more than 30 seconds makes him feel all funny inside, can’t have that must repress and distract himself.

    • “One way or another, the bill always comes due.”

      Love this and so true. The few marriages I know of that started out as affairs have all ended badly. Two of the cheater husbands had one foot out the door right from the beginning. Yet the OWives hung on for dear life, for years, only to be dumped in the end. The sneaking around, stealing time away together is intoxicating for these defects and there is no reality, just escapism. When the cheaters end up together you now have TWO defects in the relationship. What could go wrong……

      • I know of 2 married people who cheated on their spouses with each other. They divorced their chumps and married each other. A few years go by, he starts cheating on her. She found out and confronted him. They got into an argument and he killed her. Made it look like an accident but coworkers reported their suspicions to the police who investigated and determined the truth. He spent 12 years in prison, Schmoopie (who was gleeful when the wife died) waited for him, visited him weekly. He was released a year ago and they married. Twu luv. I’m waiting to see what happens next, because I know the karma bus is coming.

        • Oh yes karma will hit. A local couple made the news recently. The husband stabbed her to death when she told him she was leaving. Rather stupid on her part as they were known for having violent arguments and police were called many times over the years. His former boss called him a narcissist and very bad with finances. How did they meet? Online and he was still married. They had an affair, he left his wife and they married. All I can say is his ex wife dodged a bullet and someone above was looking out for her well being.

  • She is in LALALAND Dah!!! That is what they do A-Hole is moving with his “soulmate” (she already has a house) free rent for him. In a few months the Whore version 9.0 will say the same as Rosieglasses: “So here is the problem — is he with me because he loves me or because he is backed into a financial corner?”

    The MSA will get him soon and the gravy will be over for both of them in her case and in my cheaters case.

    This is the life of the AP & Rosieglasses you were supposed to change you GLASSES a lonnnnggggg time ago.

    Once in a while it is good to post the AP perspective since it is what we imagine and the new Chumps in this blog can see what will happen to the cheaters sooner or later.

  • Cheater boy purchased a home for OW out of state after she grew weary of the hotel room deal. He told nobody about her. She apparently told nobody about him. After dday, I was told that had been going on for four years, but I suspect it was actually six or more. Apparently, she encouraged divorce and they discussed and dreamed of their eventual marriage. But even in their out of state little town, they revealed their affair to no one soul. Although their living arrangement was known and smart people drew their own conclusions, everyone held their silence. That state of affairs, as itvwere, has continued in the wake of dday. It is, of course, true and forever love, except for the part where it must be hidden at all costs, and never discussed except, apparently, in behind closed doors whispers. Professional and personal consequences must be avoided. Assuming that once divorce is accomplished, they will pretend to quite suddenly have fallen in love with each other, thus providing a happy and, more importantly, respectable narrative for public consumption. One thing is for certain–he definitely found someone even chumpier than me. I kind of hope it lasts, because life is better when his attention is elsewhere. No clue what, if anything, she might think of me and the kids, but guessing it goes something like this: poor cheater boy was trapped in a loveless marriage to a harridan, he found me and I saved him with my true and pure love and beauty, he is a great dad but harridan has forced the children inexplicably to hate him, we will sparkle at our wedding, I look nice in white. Yup.

    • The “you and me against the world” gaslight is a powerful one for sure. Your ex is scary. I agree, better for him to focus elsewhere!

      • What better triangulation than You and Me against the WHOLE WORLD!!!! Plus, the cheaters get to play the Victim card–everyone is against us! Like a 24/7 orgasm to these losers.

  • The OW in my case thought like Rozieglasses.They were going to be married,live happily ever after,just like in the fairytales.Then he dumped her for his next soul mate,overlapping,utterly dispensible,interchangeable love of his life number wtf ever.Now OW is in the discard phase whilst he idealises his next victim.A stone cold sociopath.
    Pathology is the inability to sustain change.
    I recall reading this letter when it was first published.I would love to know if Rozie got her fairytale ending,but I’d say the odds are low when you couple with a selfish,entitled,cake eating prick.

    • It’s even somewhat worse in my case, because my narc ex was the one who thought it was ‘twu lurv’ and totally worth dumping the loyal and loving wife, the house and all friends, and even mostly his kids for a divorced-because-she-cheated slunt who he had known for a couple of months.

      Surprise surprise! OW wasn’t able to provide that so-much-better experience! Replacing his family and friends for hers didn’t work that well! Our kids were not willing to be dropped and picked up like toys! And ooooohhhh, OW dumped him. For another man. Twice.

      Sometimes it’s hard to tell who’s stupider and more immoral, the APs or the cheaters….

  • Does he LOVE you? One dish of delusional covered with denial please

    If he cheated with you he’ll cheat on you

    Ditch him and get counseling. Please

  • Here is what actually happened:

    Husband starts an affair. Wife finds out and he goes to obligatory marriage counseling, but won’t cut contact with Rozie. Wife kicked him out; he didn’t choose to leave voluntarily.

    The children, family members and friends all think Husband is a cad and are completely aligned with Wife. Husband can’t handle everyone thinking ill of him for his cheating, so he gets a job out of state and pitches the idea to Rozie as if they’re running off together to start a new life.

    Husband keeps his hooks into Wife talking about how much he misses her during their weekly (or more) calls. Husband hopes that Wife will be so devastated without him she’ll beg for him to come home. Maybe, behind Rozie’s back, he DID consult a lawyer, and the lawyer told him he would pay out his ass if he got divorced. During his brief visits home, he tries to pose as single.

    Eventually, Wife wises up. Maybe she found ChumpLady. Maybe the cacophony of her loved ones screaming “Dump his ass!” finally got through. Maybe she fell in love again herself. Maybe she got sick of bullshit. She lawyered up and took him to the cleaners… him leaving the state in shame probably worked in her favor, as he pretty much abandoned all of their shared assets.

    Since this column ran before, I’m guessing that in the time since Rozie wrote to ChumpLady and the time that has since elapsed since its initial publication, bitterness eventually set in. Times are tough in the House of Shmoopie; now Ex-Husband is way less sexier now that Rozie has to pay all the bills AND clean his skid marks in the toilet.

    And Rozie is less appealing to Ex-Husband, too, with her complaints about how he’s Haley Joel Osmunt and she’s a ghost whenever they go to their home state, how its HIS fault Ex-Wife gets all his money, and can you at least wash dishes. Doesn’t Rozie realize that HE’s the victim here?!

    Thank goodness for Daizy, his’s new secretary. SHE understands him.

    • ^^^^^
      Exactly LuLu, and it’s going to happen to each and everyone of them as soon as the honeymoon phase fades. It sometimes takes a little while when Cheater is trying to prove to the world and the Chump he’s found true love. They can’t wear the mask forever and reality eventually settles in
      Resentments build, what? is she complaining again? whining again? now what? I’m going to show her…

      • For over three years, I spent hours every single day reading up on sociopaths; blogs, including this one and Captain Awkward; books, by teachers like Martha Stout and Gavin de Becker; and YT videos by Richard Grannon. Going in, all I knew was that I was in tremendous pain from what I thought were “relationships” and it had to stop. I filled composition books with angry words penned with my fist on paper smeared by tears.

        And then I met a guy. And I noticed his attempts to insert himself into my life-dreams I was telling him about. And I did not think “true love;” I thought, “hmmm, this is Forced Teaming.” I got intrigued at how his spiel was *not* hooking me. He started to seem like an experiment.

        He had So.Much.Sadness! At how he’d treated women in his past- wrist to forehead- but I noticed his disinterest in my safety and his insistence I wait for him at a station where I wouldn’t feel safe. And I did not gloss over this information. I let it have its weight and sink into my brain as vital information.

        It was the same with his general presentation- just like my mother’s first husband, there was this rehearsed, hollow aspect to his mournfulness and his needs dominated our conversation. He was talking past me, at something over my shoulder, while reeling off some old “pity me” script that I could see, had always worked on women in the past… and I later blocked his number, while feeling a quiet and shimmering joy at inhabiting my beautiful life, untouched by him. -xo

    • I think your scenario is very accurate. I’d bet everything I have that the husband was calling his wife constantly, begging to come back and work on their marriage. I also think the wife was able to come to her senses due to her cheater leaving the state. She realized she did not need him or his BS. Rozie will be (or maybe already has) dumped. Of course he’ll have to line another woman up first, to take care of him, but at least the new woman will not have been involved in blowing up his marriage and he’ll be able to take her out in public.

  • I hadn’t thought of in years until now, when I was in my early 20’s I met an Air Force officer in his late 20’s who attended a class at the local military base a few days each month. We had lunch one month and the next month we went to dinner, he seemed nice. This was before cell phones. I worked full time and he lived across the country and don’t remember talking to him over the phone during the three weeks he wasn’t in town, He seemed nice enough on the third month I introduced him to my parents before we went to dinner.
    During dinner he informed me he was married with a young daughter then proceeded to tell me the sob story that he wasn’t getting sex from his wife. I was humiliated, what was he thinking? I couldn’t believe he thought I’d be okay with dating a married man, embarrassed for him and myself that he had invited me to dinner while married. I felt sick to may stomach and ashamed of myself for a long time afterwards even thought I had no idea he was married. I felt like I had done something illegal and relieved I hadn’t been arrested.
    We never had a physical relationship, thank God but I still felt guilt and sad for his poor wife. I left the restaurant and asked him not to call me. He continued to call and write me letters, I never answered his calls or read his BS letters they went in the trash unopened. He didn’t call me and write me letters because he loved me or even cared about me. He was looking for convenience and an easy lay while in town.
    That he thought I’d consider dating or fucking a married man was insulting to me. Which is how you should be feeling.., it’s degrading, going out or fucking a married man isn’t flattering or something to be proud of. Rethink your priorities. To answer your question, no, he doesn’t love you and never will.
    If he valued you and your relationship he would be proud to introduce you to everyone, in spite of the circumstances. Nothing gets in the way of true love, right? just ask a cheater. He doesn’t value his children or the wife who brought his children into the world and stayed married to his nasty ass for 25+ years why should he feel any differently about you? You’re meeting his needs until someone different smiles back at him and the cycle continues. I have an idea, value yourself and dump the loser.

    • “During dinner he informed me he was married with a young daughter ”

      In my 20s, I used to forget to ask a guy if he was married. When someone else tells you and you ask him why didn’t you tell me, I had gotten the “well, you didn’t ask.” To me that’s proof that people should not be allowed to get married in their 20s, if some people don’t see it as important to their identity.

      In the case of Rosie here, I can’t help but feel that a misinterpretation of “women’s lib” or “Feminism” is at play here. This idea that because women have jobs too these days and that they should contribute to the relationship financially, yada, yada, yada…………. maybe Rozie also feels that she’s doing her bit as a modern woman by supporting this man.

      More than 10 years ago I was dating a guy long distance who agreed to move to my city. He was itching for a change anyway. He the presented me with this bright idea that he could move in with me and then “pay me something towards the rent.” Something about that offer smelled reallly bad…… especially since he was making 6 figures and I was starting out working for myself. I had a 2 bed apt. and my roommate was my business.

      Several female friends told me that I must not be all that into him, they would certainly let a guy live with them …… I guess on those terms especially since he was throwing the M word around.

      So in an era when women are still making only 80 cents on the dollar, we have somehow bought into the belief that we owe our men something.

      Even Nora Ephron once pondered in the 80s, “what right have earned other than the right ot buy a guy lunch.”

      In Rozie’s case, this guy probably doesn’t care if he bankrupts her and then just moves on. He’ll only pay his own way when someone makes him do it.

  • Lulu, yep! Skankboy didn’t choose Ida Whore, she won by default! How’s that working for them? Ex continues to attempt contact through Emails- “I’ think of you a lot. I’m not that happy. I’m doing as well as can be expected.” Yeppers, a twu wuv that cannot be denied! Yep, he loves her sooooo much that is why there are only a few hundred texts and emails to me and not a few THOUSAND!

  • Of course your MM loves you. Keep paying his bills and when you get back to your home state don’t pressure your MM “soulmate” to introduce you to family and friends.

    How ungrateful of you to question his love for you…..he might think you don’t appreciate his love….keep paying his bills and give him blow jobs….be grateful you found your soul mate…..keep paying his bills.

    It will last…your fairy tale love story…keep paying his bills….and live happily ever after.

    Your soulmate love story is spectacular….so special….unique….keep paying his bills. Maybe a Hollywood Producer finds your love story and makes it a movie. Your story is inspiring and gives hope to all the OW in the world.

  • Oh, Rozie. I don’t think you’re a 100% delusional. You came to ChumpLady knowing, maybe deep down, but you knew, what she was going to say. You know your boyfriend doesn’t love you. You know that he should have filed for divorce. You know he didn’t because he wanted to see if this worked for him or if it didn’t and he could go crawling back to his wife. You know that he’s a piece of shit for not having a relationship with his kids. you know that he should be introducing you to his family and friends. You know that the ‘he wouldn’t choose between us’ in therapy is a load of bullshit too.

    AND you know that he had his wife convinced they were soulmates too. AND you know that you’re probably not the first.

  • Well… Honestly, Rozie, I don’t really care about you. I mean… what did you expect? He is a cheater… and you are his lover. That’s it. Things are not going to change. Don’t you get it? You think his ex wife “stepped down” for you? Are you seriously considering this all situation like a “battle”? A war that you won? How old are you,17? You think that she accepted your victory you when she filled for a divorce, blessing your relationship? No. She was just moving on, taking out the trash. And the trash, in this case, was her ex husband. And to be more clear, she took the trash at the junkyard. In this case: you. Now, it is your problem. Deal with it. You are scared he is using u? Well… he IS using u. Don’t like it? Dump him. I don’t even know why you are here… kibbles? Are u a troll? Are u trying to have fun? Get a life, honestly. U think your problems are important? They are not. U are getting what u asked for. Beside, the fact u are asking such questions, means also u know already what is it going to happen. U know the answer. Just, u are not ready to hear it. Bad for you, see… u are the one wasting time. See, in life there are consequences. For all of us… U do something, u pay the fee. Consequences can be good or bad. I was supposed to save money this month, but I went shopping for shoes. Now, I will pay the consequences for my mistakes. It is anybody fault but mine, if I will eat toast and potatoes until the end of the month. I am no victim… just a shopaholic. For you is the same. With the only difference that your mistake affects another woman and three children without mentioning an entire family of relatives (yeah… but who cares, right Rozie? You are living the dram… you are the soulmate! Crap) . You are no victim, just starting to pay the fee for your actions. Maybe it will help you to become a better person. Who knows, maybe, in the future you’d start using your head and not only your vagina.

    One word for the other Chumps here. Girls, I honestly think you are all amazing. When ex broke our long relationship leaving for the ow, I was devastated. But…I was lucky. See, it was just me. We did not have kids. I could just block him, cut any contacts and move on. Was hard? Yeah. But hell… I am blessed with the possibility of putting his mail address into the spam bins without regrets. Many of you cannot do the same. You are mothers and you cannot go totally no contact with ex for the well being of your kids. Sometimes you have to deal with the ow as well. And it is hard. I don’t know if I would ever be able to do the same. I really think you are great. Just wanted to tell you this.

    • Emma – i’m with you there – we didn’t have kids either so I can’t even imagine having to deal with that asswipe for the rest of my life. I admire and applaud the courage of the ones that have to and still wake up every morning and get their superwomen outfits on.

    • Smart post, Emm@. True, we all have flaws and moments of weakness. But most of us don’t have flaws that victimize other people.

  • These OW have such mental disconnect. The final OW in my story knew my husband was, well, my husband, but bought his stories of marital woe and proceeded to cheat with him on me. She let him into her kids life, oh what a happy family we will be. And then when she discovered he was cheating on her, with me during our wreckconciliation, and come to find with other other women SHE WAS SHOCKED!!!! Here’s how I layed it out for her:

    You KNEW he was capable of lying and cheating but you believed him to be trustworthy?
    Blank stare.
    You KNEW he had the capacity to deceive his WIFE of 15 years and live a double life but you believe him to be a good guy?
    Blank stare.
    You knew he was a drug user and relied on me financially but you thought him to be husband material?
    Blank stare.
    So,let me get this straight you let a known liar, cheating, drug user into your kids life and you thought this was smart.
    Blank stare.

    I mean you guys these things NEVER DAWNED ON HER!!! WTF???

    My ex died recently and ALL his evil deeds (there was way more than even I knew)finally came out and she is now dealing with a devastated 5 year old (hers) that misses his surrogate daddy and she is feeling the sting of betrayal. The karma bus showed up for her in a painful way.

    Compare this to me, who recently had a lunch date with someone I thought was available, when he told me he was married but separated I told him to call me when he was ACTUALLY divorced. Until your divorced YOURE STILL MARRIED. Geography means nothing. See how easy it is not to get involved with a married man. You just say “no, thanks for playing” and you move on.

    These OW think they are truly magical snowflakes that can turn lying cheating scum into Prince Charming. Delusional isn’t a strong enough word. The OW in my story is still reeling from asshats death and me, well I lost a cheater and gained a life!!!

  • After reading Rozie’s letter it’s like, occasionally, when I’m grading papers and I come across one that is so bad I think to myself “I am now dumber for having read that.” Thank God for CL’s smart, spot on response to put everything back into proper perspective.

    Call me bitter or crotchety or whatever, but I’ve got little patience for this level of foolishness these days.

    • Hilarious, Nikki Lynn! Not crotchety at all. Sometimes the level of ignorance does startle. Thanks for the laugh

  • I know there are those who had no idea the person they are dating was married or seperated these pods can be so charming and skilled at lying. For them who were duped and dumped a glass of sweet tea on them and ended it. I give them a pass. They were duped such as me. I agree with getting real. Go fuck yourself bitch!

  • I read this a slightly different way than CL.

    Sounds to me like the cheater isn’t getting a divorce at all.

    I’m guessing that he made that part up to get what he wants out of his OW… give here a little hopium that he and his twu wuv can “be together in public” soon.

    I’m not entirely clear on what this being in another state and going back to their home state situation is. But I’m guessing that the cheater has told the wife he has work outside his home state for extended periods of time (and probably spins stories about how lonely he is and how sorry he is that he has to be away so long), and that she believes that. Meanwhile he’s giving Roxie that pack of hopium lies about how his wife is divorcing him and it’ll be a fine deal in 30 days. I’ll bet that 30 days drags on quite a lot longer than that with lots of sad sausage stories about how he needs money for lawyers, etc., that OW is supposed to furnish for him.

    Rozie, do yourself and his wife a favor please: Contact his wife and tell her what’s going on. Do that on the same day you kick this no one out of your apartment for good. And then get yourself done counseling, so you learn to have more respect for yourself and others than to have an affair with a married man in the future.

    If you really want the truth, start snooping on his computer, tablet and phone if you can. I’m guessing you two probably aren’t the only cake and nibbles he’s got going.

    Yes, it will hurt the wife, but it will also give her a chance to get out of her sham of a marriage and eventually be with someone who is not disordered.

  • Cmon guys – before any of us went through our own experience, can we honestly say we would react this strongly to this letter? We’re only saying this now because we’ve been cheated on and we’re obviously sympathizing with the chump. We relate to that pain. We know, we understand how that feels. Calling this woman a cunt, whore, bitch – thats not really fair. She’s on the other side where we’ve never been – and never will be. Ofcourse I would never thought of cheating on my husband or ever thought about dating a married man. BUT i didn’t feel this strongly until after my husband cheated on me.

    All I’m saying is that some here have offered this woman some insight as to what her pathetic cheating lying “soulmate” really is and insight to his stbx – thats a lot more constructive. I love this community. Obviously there’s a lot of pain here and it comes out in our responses, understandably.

    Just saying…she came here for help, she has no idea what it feels like on the other side. None of us do until we’re there. So lets tell her how it really is and have her wake the fuck up!

    • Actually, yes, I would have had a strong reaction to a letter from the OW even before being chumped. From early teen years, I was appalled at cheaters. I used to yell at the TV when affairs of celebrities would be broadcast on TV–I completely turned against Hugh Grant when he was caught with the “Divine” prostitute while dating Elizabeth Hurley. And I had harsh words for General Petraeus after his affair came to light.

      Then-husband, who sat next to me during my rants as we watched TV together, was cheating on my the whole time. How delicious it must have been to him to be deceiving someone with such strong views on adultery. A little cherry on the top of his infidelity.

      • Tempest – then my apologies to you and some – and wow – your ex prob had no clue, knowing how you felt about infidelity and still cheating? To him, I’m sure he wasn’t like all those others. yeah right.

        We now have a whole different perspective, unfortunately – and maybe this person is beyond repair and she just has no clue. But maybe she is actually reaching out for someone to smack her upside the head and have her wake up to reality. I just didn’t see the point in calling her names and dumping all our anger on her, not that some of it isn’t deserving.

      • I’m sure that made him feel even more superior, Tempest. He could be secure that you weren’t going to do unto him as he did unto you, and delighted that he’d so masterly deceived you. What a steaming piece of shit.

      • I think there is a mistaken concept that you “help” other women by giving them sympathy. I think that is totally incorrect.

        If cheaters don’t feel bad about what they have done,/are doing, they almost always do it again. Rosie knew this guy was a cheater, from the first second she got involved with him. She also knew he was a liar. The only thing that will help her is to decide that she will never get involved with someone she knows is married, engaged, committed. Like the say ing goes “You knew what I was when you picked me up.”

        • I agree, and there are plenty of people who do resist getting involved with married men/women because….morals. For example, I know of 3 very young women my X tried to seduce; two of them did have affairs with him, and then pressured him to leave his wife (me) and 2 young children. Both must have had some emotional problems/daddy issues to want to be with a man 30+ years older than them. But they both asked a man to abandon his wife and children. Sympathy for them? Nope.

          The young woman who resisted X’s advances, and was drummed out of her graduate program by him for refusing to sleep with him AND lost her fiance (who couldn’t tolerate her being stressed out because Hannibal devalued her after she resisted him)? TONS of sympathy for her. She exhibited integrity, and it cost her years of her educational life. I would bend over backwards for that woman to try and compensate for what my X did to her.

      • I’m with tempest. Asshat sat there agreeing with me about people lacking key character traits of honesty and integrity. Fuck rozie and the idiots who fuck the rozies.

        Even playing old person’s doubles tennis- those who cheat in that game where there is no real glory, money or status, are people with whom I will never and no longer associate. If a person can cheat in a game, no amount of bible thumping makes them less of cheater in other areas of their lives.

      • Same situation with me, Tempest. He knew how strongly I felt about cheating and I had told him how much damage it had caused in my FOO. He knew I had trust issues and would always say defensively, “I don’t cheat, I’m not like that!”…YEAH, RIGHT!!!!!

    • IAP,

      Compassion, empathy and love are Chump characteristics. While making us beautiful people, are the very characteristics that are preyed on by narcissists, sociopaths and the disordered.

      Part of our healing process from abuse, betrayal, STDs and humiliation of being chumped is to be able to safely come to places like CL. Many of us walked on eggshells, kept the peace, remained silent during long term marriages. This is a safe place to have a voice within a community that understands.

      OW/OM truly should not come to a healing community, that they knowingly participated in creating the victims wounds, looking for sympathy and understanding period! Go to Reddit or HuffPost, talk with superficial friends on WeChat. Don’t come to CL. It’s like a rapist going on rape victim forums and trying to justify their behavior. Seriously!!!!!

      It does not make us mean or less human to want to heal from pain and let the person (today’s OW is representative of all our OM/OW) know how it made us feel when they selfishly supported the break up of marriage, family and community, accepted marital funds spent on them and possibly passed STDs onto us.

      Part of our chumpiness is not wanting to appear unkind, unloving, un-wife appliancey, have actual needs or not “be nice”. I believe it is healthy for us to vent, swear (if someone so chooses) and call out immoral bad behavior in a safe CN community.

      If I need to consider OW/OM feelings over my own healing, isn’t that missing the whole CL/CN point?

      My serial cheater EH had affairs with mostly married women with the occasional prostitute, masseuse, Back Page hook up. In the case of married APs, both parties willingly acted to destroy two marriages and families. He was also with over 20 women (that I’m aware of ) over our 35 years together.

      I’ve been fighting an aggressive cancer for over two years now. Trust me when I tell you that 9 surgeries, chemotherapy, immunotherapy, cancer clinical trials while going through a highly contentious divorce from cheater at the same time is awful.

      Colon, uterine, bladder and general genital area cancers are on the rise. More and more studies are being done connecting STDs (HPV) and the increase in these cancers.

      My most recent cancer surgery 6 weeks ago, I was next to another patient who had just had her rectum removed. I’m not sure whose pain was worse; thank goodness for pain killers.

      No one really wants to talk about this. It’s not pleasant or pretty; so what if someone could lose an organ or die. “We were just having fun; we deserve that. We deserve to be happy. I’m ignorant. I didn’t mean to hurt anyone”.

      When one human’s actions cause deep pain and possible death to another, there’s nothing they can say or do to justify them.

      Actions = Consequences.

      I unfortunately can’t prove that my EH sticking his dick into many woman’s openings caused my cancer. I believe that it did, in addition to the years of stress from MC, trying to save the Titanic of my marriage, pick me dancing etc.

      I can say that I honored my vows, commitments, acted honorably and honestly and did not deserve the pain and suffering he and OW’s choices and actions caused.

      With every cancer surgery and treatment I have undergone and endured, and I can’t help but think it should be them that should have cancer and feeling the consequences for what they did.

      If studies prove the correlation, I hope cheaters can be charged with a crime. Why should their actions cause me pain, suffering or possible death? If a drunk driver kills your child they go to jail. They don’t get a pass for ignorance or impulse.

      What has our society come to when impulse for pornography, on-line Sex, Back Page hook ups, prostitution, lying and dissipating hard earned marital funds on affairs take precedence over vows, honor, acting unselfishly and doing the right thing when faced with “temptation”? Monkeys?

      Being ignorant is never an acceptable excuse for immoral behavior. “Uh, sorry police officer, I wasn’t fully aware that the Ferrari belonged to someone else”. I just thought it looked hot and I wanted it”. I felt I deserved it”.

      They should have to spend the same amount of time working in cancer wards, woman’s shelters and feeding starving children that they spent lying, hiding, texting and having sex in hotel rooms.

      There are real victims in this world, APs are not victims.

      Don’t ask me to empathize with them or be nice to them.

      • FreeNow: thank you for a very powerful post. Spot on. And you have thousands of us rooting for complete remission of your cancer. Hugs.

      • Standing ovation, FreeNow! I wish you healing and health, my sister.
        And this: “If studies prove the correlation, I hope cheaters can be charged with a crime. Why should their actions cause me pain, suffering or possible death?” I’m in full agreement!!!!

    • I have always been disturbed by the cheaters. It was always so distressing to find out another famous person had gone down that path (Is it a prerequisite among presidential candidates or what?). It was especially disturbing when it was somebody who would otherwise be a hero (Martin Luther King Junior? Nooooo!!). I always had some sympathy for the OW’s/OM’s, however. I figured it was always the fault of the one who cheated as he/she was the one breaking the vows and was probably manipulating the AP as well. That attitude started to shift after STBX’s emotional affair a number of years ago. In that case the OW was definitely the aggressor. She was trying very hard to get STBX to sleep with her (Pretty sure he didn’t that time, but it was a close call). She continued to pursue him even after meeting me and having our families hang out together (she was also married with children). I actually went out of my way to try and befriend her thinking that would make her back off. Boy was I naïve. STBX eventually had to tell her, rather rudely, to go away. That is when I first started to consider that sometimes the AP really is just a selfish homewrecker. Or course I still put most of the blame on the cheaters as they are the ones wrecking their own homes. This time STBX went looking for trouble and found it. Schmoopie 2.0 is just doing her part to make sure he stays in trouble.

    • I agree. Snark is SO much better and more cutting than abuse.

      Even with trauma and hurt, we don’t have to sink to that level.

      Lets cool the abuse people.

  • Maybe because I am coming on to one year post Dday, but I find myself intensely curious about what life is like for Cheaters and the Whores who fucked them. My therapist tells me ‘not my monkeys/not my circus’ which is true. I just want to buy tickets and watch the show.

    Rozie gave me a glimpse into what life in the love shack is like (and something tells me, if they are now depending on her salary it is in fact a shack). I want to know the logistics, the sounds, the details of everyday Homewrecker life.

    If one of them takes too long in the bathroom do they get a look? If Schmoopie is late coming home from work is there a raised eyebrow? I mean, how could there not be? Unless they really do believe that they are such special snowflakes the cheating that brought them together was so special as to never be repeated?

    I want to know if there can possibly be trust and respect. I couldn’t respect someone I knew for a fact would fuck a married man. I wouldn’t trust someone I knew to be a liar. And yet they do.

    Anyway – this is what I would dearly love to know. If only I could be a fly on the wall —- but I have a feeling even flies would have more taste then to hover around those piles of shit.

    • I like your therapists advice, but yes, after 1+ year, I’m curious as well. And would love to be a fly on the wall WHEN, not IF, he does this again to the next girl

    • “I just want to buy tickets and watch the show.”. What a hoot! I love your sense of humor!

    • I think for the cheater–definitely for my STBX–it is not at all about love or respect. Instead, it is about the ability to control the OW. I’m older, wiser. Yes, was chumpy in the extreme, but also increasingly difficult, openly contemptuous of his life, and unwilling to spend any time with him at all. That is not anywhere close to the admiration he requires. He upped the bullying as I grew ever more resistant, but even though I feared him (still do), it was too late. Would never be easily controlled again, and what he needs to see in a partner’s eyes–total worship and willingness to bend to his every whim–would clearly never appear in mine again. Indeed, I found it very telling that when he blamed me for the unhappiness that forced him to have affairs (sigh), what he pointed to almost exclusively were my reactions to his affairs. The cake thing just could not happen with me, and that was the true motivation for the discard. The OW is so much younger that I expect they will last awhile, particularly given his financial acumen, which I suspect is a large part of the attraction. The stress of discovery has aged him a good deal, and he is 21 years older than her, so that will likely cause some issues. Plus, if they ever work separately rather than the daily togetherness deal, that will introduce issues. Mostly, though, I think that appearances matter so much that he will make it work so that the optics are good for image and reputation. Only real problem will come if she grows a backbone, because he is just as mean to her as he was to me, if not more so. Good luck with that lifetime of having every facial expression, every tone of voice, and your very breathing pattern critiqued, OW. Been there. Was not fabulous.

      Oh, also–has anyone else ever wondered how they would react if the OW showed up at the door in need of help somewhere down the line? I think that is not out of the question, here. Would I be compassionate? Help her? Sigh and close the door? Not sure.

      • “Would I be compassionate? Help her? Sigh and close the door? Not sure.”

        I think as angry and hurt as we all are, we all have a heart, and we may surprise ourselves if ever faced with this situation. Yes right now we’d say hello no, fuck no, you deserve it, etc…but we’re not cold hearted and mean – we’re hurt and angry. Once that subsides, who knows how we’d react. Mine I dont have to wait to find out. I met her face to face. But in my case, she had no idea he was married. He told her he was single and lived with a roomate. She was sick to her stomach.

    • We all are curious about this type of things actually. Notwithstanding the ” well, focus on yourself not on them”, look forward not backward”, “put your energy on your own life” and so forth. But such is the human soul, we want to see a little karma bus coming down and we want to happily waive to its driver ( mind you CL’s advice on this is spot on : ” cross the street and board your own bus” …I LOVE that one!

      I recall reading somewhere that one movie ( not sure but heard it was The Last Samurai with Tom Cruise…talking of karma bus, my dear fellow chumps! Don’t quote me on this though, could be the wrong movie ) had been completed with two opposite endings. One where the bad guy won, the other where the good guy did. When pre-viewed by a target audience/reviewers the vast majority of these present voted for the good guy-winning end. The director’s cut had the bad guy winning as that situation was more logical to the storyline. However the producer nixed it for obvious reasons. The movie was not going to bring the same revenues if the story went against any bad seed getting his or her comeuppance.

      We chumps do feel and want same. Human soul at work, just plain human souls wanting a bit of fairness ( once again a great CL quote on this: ” you have to bite into the harness of unfairness and injustice until your gums bleed …” ( Tracey is one smart and wise soul and very very observant, lol ) We can’t be blamed for this actually..

  • I remember visiting with some old high school friends when we were in our mid 20’s, they were still hanging together as a tight group of 3-5 “girls”. They talked of how their weekends revolved around following a particular band of older guys who played cover songs for small bars. All the guys were married and guessing 10-20 years older than we were. I just couldn’t understand why these women were wasting their time as groupies following and fucking these old married guys. Never saw the women again. Realized we never had much in common.

  • ” she has stepped back to allow our relationship to grow” OMG I can’t stop laughing!!! Rose colored glasses for sure! Yes, his wife saw the love that cannot be denied between the two of you and stepped back to allow it to grow. His wife was lining up her ducks and giving him enough rope to hang himself. Which it sounds like he did. Yes, you wonderful creature, I’m sure her only thought upon finding out about you was YOUR happiness. That’s some ego you have there. You are pathetic beyond words to try to turn your skanky relationship into the greatest love story ever! Can’t type anymore, laughing to hard….

  • OMG… if I didn’t laugh I’d cry! Sounds so much like my sorry STBX, the poor victim… it’s not fair! Step outside your self-centeredness for 5 minutes and attribute your hurt feelings X’s 1000 to his wife and children.

    Haha… it’s like watching you stab someone in the eye and then crying “unfair” when they stab you back! That shit sandwich you helped craft is being shoved down your throats but you don’t want to eat it? Too bad buttercup… lap that shit up! It’s not like we are talking about some force of Mother Nature that destroyed these people’s lives, YOU 2 DID THAT WILLFULLY!

    The ridiculousness of this “poor me” mindset is so perplexing it’s hilarious!

  • Congratulations dear. You patiently stuck it out and you “won.” Enjoy your soulmate and pardon the laughter you hear from all of us here. Because your days of dancing pretty and better have really just begun. Spoiler alert … it doesn’t end well for you even if you get to keep him until the end of your days. Luckily, you are fucking stupid and may never comprehend that truth. Carry on. You missed a spot.

    • “Luckily, you are fucking stupid and may never comprehend that truth.”


      I found some love letters between my ex and his girlfriend just before my divorce. She is not the brightest bulb. I’m glad I am getting real close to “meh” because now all I can think is how these two idiots deserve each other.

      Oh, he is cheating on her, too. With lots of others. I guess I’ll let dummy figure that out on her own.

    • My ex’s father left his wife ( and ex’s mother ) for his affair partner in the ” there is no one of course but I just happened to find this woman three months after I abandoned the family” manner. Exactly happened as Dixie Chump described. To the T. She was oh so lucky, since no newer better looking/ richer/ with better connections showed up therefore she got to keep her poached “price” for the rest of her life. IE spent the rest of her life making this man’s wants her needs and being treated in return like the efficient but rather disappointing butler/ cook/ estate manager toward whom one must be patient. Always trying, always coming short of expectations even if she paid “her own salary and half of the estate maintenance fees”.. Was quite the continuous eye-opener actually, there you have it!

      • typo: poached “prize” although he sure turned into the “price” she paid as years went by

  • Looks like you got your cheater, Rozie, and his ex and kids got a life.

    Good luck with that. As soon as you get a little tired of paying the bills, and doing the daily pick-me dance to make sure he doesn’t cheat on you and maybe give you a disease, and being the only adult in the room, he’ll notice…

    And he will start ‘working late’, or ‘working out’. Chances are he won’t even be original, and will feed you the same lines he fed wifey while he was wrecking his kid’s home. With you.

    But it is twoo wuv, remember? A wuv so stwong the lives of three other human beings are just incidental (and so is yours, by the way, if three years out you aren’t his official gf).

    His ex got a life, whereas you have to do the pick me dance every. damn. day. And don’t forget to pick up his drycleaning.

    Keep dancing, dipshit.

  • I see that the cheater in this situation hung around until the chump finally filed for divorce. Why is that?

    I had to file to divorce my wife too (despite the fact that she’s the one that was “so miserable and unhappy for years”). It took me a couple of years, but I finally did it. But if she was the one that was so unhappy and miserable, then why didn’t she file? Why is it always up to the chumps to end the marriage?

    I just wonder, and maybe CN can all chime in, but were you the one that filed to divorce first? And why is it that we seem to be the ones that have to do it? Did we all marry complete cowards?

    • Yes, I filed first. Cheaters do not file because they want cake and no consequences for as long as possible. Even if cake evolves into something different than extra source of sex, they still want the image, child care, financial support, and place to live. They find us useful for something or they would walk. And we let them until we figure that out.

    • Yes blindside we did all marry cowards. Asswipe never asked for or persued a divorce i think he would have let it go forever if i hadnt finally filed. It wasnt something i ever wanted to have done but it had to be done to end the madness. Whore juice pushed him and offered to pay for it but he never lifted a finger. Said half the time he wanted one the other half he didnt cause he didnt know what he wanted. Waaa! Boo fucking hoo! After i filed he couldnt have it done fast enough and even sent scanned copies of final decree to the bitch. Guess she didnt believe him either. He lives alone now deep in debt and is an old sorry playa! While whore juice his now friend hoovers like a big old fat buzzard pick me dancing so she will choose her. Losers both of them. And both cowards. Theyve broken up four times in as many years. Im the winner here as many of us are i escaped his life and are working on building my own and he didnt escape his life. They are both filthy lying cheater losers and i pray they marry so the rest of us will be safe at least for a while. Any adult man or woman who cant stand or face the truth is a coward and a loser in my book. Lessons learned for me. Fucking pods the lot of them!

    • Yes, Blindside, we did marry cowards. They took the easy way “out” of the marriage, and when we noticed it was then our job to clean up the mess (again). They want and need the narrative to be that the Chump ended the marriage, that Chump was the one who wanted out of the marriage, that they are the victim. It helps preserve their image of themselves as nice.

      My ex, when I asked him why he didn’t ask for or file for a divorce if he was so miserable (a state only revealed when caught), told me, “that’s the difference between you and me–you get things done, I don’t”.

    • Raising hand here Blindside 🙂

      Yep. I had to file…and then fight for almost 3 years to get it done and over with…lying cheating coward (thanks Aeronaut 🙂 ) kept telling the judge I wanted to reconcile (face palm).

      I will never understand any of it, from start to finish. And I don’t want to…hurts my head just thinkin bout it.

      We are free 🙂 We are mighty 🙂

        • (((((((Kar Marie)))))))

          🙂 Yes we do sister 🙂

          …in the pre dawn light the flip flop clad flamingos were dangling their surfboard and basket laden with afternoon wine ‘come hither’ to the sunshine, sand and surf sister, from my bedside table 🙂 Come on! they said, smiling 🙂

          🙂 Much love to you, and I’M ON MY WAY 🙂

          • Ah love you my sister! The pink birds want to fly with you!!!


            We are free and need to let our supowers fly!!!!!!

    • Yep. I filed. He “moved out” (just quit coming home) in late October last year. I found out about the girlfriend in late November and I filed early December. And the idiot actually acted surprised when he was served.

      They live in a different world. One I am so glad not to be a part of.

    • My cheater filed for divorce but I was the one to push it through and get it across the finish line. In his words “Ideally, I’ll file for divorce and things will get entangled in a court battle for at least a year so I can find myself and we can reconcile.” Um, yes, and I was expected to be there waiting for this soul searching that was happening between his gf’s legs? D-day to divorce decree was 6 months (no kids, 5 yr marriage). Felt like an eternity but so glad to be on the other side. Hang strong, chumps.

      • x filed also because his lawyer told him it looked like abandonment of his business. I pushed it through in 4 months. It was final one month before our 35 wedding anniversary. He wanted to drag it out past our anniversary because ” it meant a lot to him that we made it to that milestone ” WTF

    • Yes, I was the one that filed, and had him served at work. When he got the papers, he left me a note on top of divorce papers, that said “if you loved me, you would have never done this”

      Took me 3 1/2 years to get divorced too – because he ignored everything. That is until he saw an opening to be back with Schmoopie. Then it was 5 months and done!

      • He actually had the balls to say “if you loved me you wouldn’t have done this” I would have kicked him in the nuts (that’s if he had any) on principle alone. What a tool!!!

    • I had to file. I chalked it up to him being too lazy to actually do something and it was up to me to pay the $300 filing fee. I served him at work because I didn’t know where he was living. He needed to provide the court with an address after the filing and he used one from a friend he knew…even though he immediately moved in with the skank. My son always said “I don’t know what’s worse, him lying, or him thinking that we’re stupid enough to believe him.”

    • I couldn’t file, ’cause we were never married. But I’m the one who told him I was done, that I would move out. He insisted he would move out instead, to give the kids more stability (since he was out of town 4 days a week for work for a few months – perfect opportunity for an affair). I then had to insist he find a place, as he wasn’t lifting a finger, just sleeping in the guest room. Then I had to actually find him an apartment, and take him over to sign the lease. Then I had to make him start living there, instead of just sleeping there and spending the whole day at the house ‘to be with the kids’ (yeah, including naps on what was now MY couch). Then I had to tell him to stop coming over at random times ‘to do laundry’ (of course there was laundry in his building!). I had to tell him we were splitting up the finances, I had to make the financial plan, I had to work out his visitation ….

      They are lazy cowards, and SOOOOO used to our taking care of everything! Almost a year after starting that last affair, he still thought I’d do his taxes!!

    • Cowardice with a capital C.

      Instead of taking steps to improve or end a marriage she now says she was miserable in for years, Kunty Kibbler:

      – Tried the open marriage strategy (“See? you can fuck other women and I won’t mind…”); then
      – Begged me to believe her when she said she was sorry for going so far off the rails; then
      – Changed her strategy to keeping her new fuckbuddies a secret, until I found out about them; then
      – Went through the motions of wreckonciliation while continuing the deception; then
      – put up a final, feeble excuse for a defense when I said “enough!” and forced her to make a choice: the marriage or her version of ‘polyamrorous.’

      Even then, she didn’t have the balls to say “Yes, I want out.” I was forced to make the decision for both of us.

      Afterwards, she constantly insisted that “YOU’RE the one that wanted this.”

      Cowardice with a capital C.

    • Mine did not want a divorce he wanted an open marriage. I said no and foolishly thought that his moving out meant that he had opted for divorce so he could be with Schmoopie. Eventually I realized that the divorce was on me as he was perfectly content with sticking me with an open marriage by default.

      • What it really means is that they want to have their cake and eat it too and they don’t want to look like the bad guy for ending their marriage.

        My ex tried similar tactics from the “I really want this to work” – nothing says I want this to work like sticking your wang in someone else. “You’re the one that wants out, not me” – lying, cheating, making our lives hell really says “I want to be there” and he couldn’t understand why I told him to piss off poor dear. “It’s your fault I cheated because you (enter sentence here) – no explanation needed. “You’re being unfair to her and don’t be angry at her (OW) – she’s the victim in all this”. I pissed myself laughing in his face and didn’t even dignify this statement with a response. My personal fave was these gems off my MIL upon finding out that I was kicking the douchebag to the kerb. “How could you do this to your kids?” – again I didn’t dignify this with a response. “Boys will be boys, can’t you just turn a blind eye?” my response “how’s that one working out for you?” – she’s been married to douchebags father for 40+ years and he’s an older version of him. Then this absolute nugget “Your children will come from a broken home” – my response “Yes they will but I’d rather my kids come from a broken home than live in one”.

        At the end of the day they did us a huge favour and are getting the life they wanted and truly deserved!!

    • Yep – I had to file. It was obvious he wanted out, I had told him “if you are so unhappy, go ahead file for divorce.” I had asked him “are you just not filing because you have seen a lawyer and decided it’s cheaper to keep her? Because if that’s the case we can work it out.”

      … nope, still wouldn’t file. Kept on with the “I love you and want you in my life. I’m just so messed up.” and of course “we are just friends.” when it came to the Whore.

      Finally one day a friend of mine told me some gossip that pushed me over the edge. I lined up my ducks as we say and I filed. The day after I had him served he said he was proud of me for doing it. Whatever… should have done it years ago.

    • Yes, I was the one to file. I filed because I knew he either wouldn’t to try to have that last to me, but mainly because I know what an irresponsible loser he is and knew he would never get his shit together to actually make it happen on his own.

      • Oh you bet I was the one to file! On Dday I was crying while sitting there and he said to me trying to comfort me, “There were a few good years Blown Away!” We were married 46 you-know what years and together 50!!!! Talk about COWARD. When our son came in
        for his face to face with his father, he said he told him, “Dad, I don’t have a clue who you are. (Son was 42). “Based on what you have all done that we now about, our values are completely different. You are a liar, a cheat, a thief AND A COWARD!!”

        • I found a family law lawyer and filed the next business day. Everything always happens on the weekend to me! He did not know what hit him.

          • Mine started to openly date his Ho-worker in front of me and after he sending me a Dear Jane letter! When I asked how he wanted to divorce he said with No Lawyers! I told him that’s not possible! He promised if I moved out of our paid off expensive home he would take care of me in an apartment! After 36 years of marriage and 40 years of being together he was going to move his girlfriend in to our marital home and move me out into an apartment! The Only sure thing that was he was going to give me was my 2011 Toyota Corolla! Fought me 1.5 years in divorce court and drove the divorce fees into the sky by contesting everything he wanted! But soooo worth it now 2.5 years out! Pure evil!

            • Asswipe tried the same with me. Put me somewhere hed pay for and insert whore juice in my place. And the fuckface was pissed when i said no fucking way am i handing over my entire life i worked for to that stupid bitch. Took three years to disengage but i got what i wanted. Fuck him and her. Pods.

              • Yep! unbelievable! People can’t comprehend that they can literally replace you! Divorce lawyer set met straight and did it quick just before I lost everything!

        • My son has said essentially the same thing about his dad. And he is only 15.

          They think that everyone should just accept their choices and go on as if it was just a matter of them not being happy and moving on. They don’t see that the way they treated people on the way out was immoral and downright abusive,

  • No mystery here. Rozie is and always will be nothing but a side dish with a checkbook. If Prince Charming won’t publicly acknowledge the relationship, it is because he doesn’t value it. And, more importantly, he was thinking he’d keep his wife and family on the back burner as Plan B. This won’t end well for either of them. When Rozie’s bank account runs dry, her handsome Prince will find another.

  • OMG! I read this and it could have been written by my cheaters OW! Did it ever occur to Rozie that his wife had been lining up her Ducks for three years or dealing with the devastating fall out of the children’s disappointments or a serious health isssue she was having? This was my case. I had to deal with a nasty case of lung cancer and MRSA, but I had previously filed for divorce and had to put it on “hold”! In the meantime the STBX was dragging Schoopie to the state where his parents and his siblings lived, but hid her in a hotel. She was NOT introduced or paraded around because he knew they hated her! She resented the shit out of it! Once the divorce was final he always scheduled his trips to his family without her. Of course I had cleaned him out financially and he moved to her condo in Florida. He was unemployed so Schmoopie was supporting him (and my alimony!) My BIL said he was coming to his house and saying he was “unhappy”! This less than one month after our divorce! Fast forward after he moves in. He gets very sick. Diagnosis, pancreatic cancer. Schmoopie tries to get my adult children to “help” her. They refuse and tell her that he is her responsibility now. Once he is stable after surgery she doesn’t see him as quite so shiny. He also tells her now that marriage to her isn’t going to happen. Schmoopie realizes that she has been “gasp” USED! So much for twu wuv! Schmoopie invites him out of her condo! Where does Ex run to? Back to the Chump! Now Schmoopie wants her money back! Boo Hoo! And he is a broken sick man who has lost his family and the respect of anyone close to him! Rozie, he does not love you! He just finds you convenient and willing! You are simply a useful tool! Test him! Kick him out and watch where he runs…… right back to his wife and family! He’s a user, that’s all!

    • Just a footnote here. In our divorce settlement I made sure my Ex kept his life insurance and I was the beneficiary. I also made sure he could not change the beneficiary on his military retirement pay! He was too stupid to change the beneficiary (me) on what little investments he had when we divorced. His Will still listed me and the kids as heirs to his pathetic “fortune”. But Schmoopie knew this and she knew if he died she would have zero! She wanted him to change it all in the days before his surgery and he refused. He placed no real value on this whore at all and she knew she was just a nurse and a purse by that time! Serves her right!

  • Ahh… the sad sausage tale he gave her in the beginning. So typical… Where he told her he was ‘unhappy’ for years, no sex, ? miserable, but if you Rozie just feel bad for me and fuck my lonely dick- I’ll instantly be whole.

    This is a woman who likes to think she’s that special. If she doesn’t / then she’ll have to face the truth. He was gaming her all along. Probably many other woman too! But she was the first to step up her willingness to let him move.

    No man of quality, lies and defames his wife, uses it to get sex, con, manipulate. Roxie must hold true to this narriative or HER world falls apart.
    The truth is showing through if she chooses to accept it.

    Kids hate him, he kept stalling the divorce, kept mistress locked away in HER place, moved out of state to get cake and keep prying eyes away. All while telling Ms. Roxie something that got her hot and bothered. SHE was so damn special he blew up how life for HER pussy. She was that magical. A superhero to save this sadz from his life with a wife, multiple children, and no sex. Blah, blah. I suspect Roxie you have your nagging doubts, or you wouldn’t be on a site like this. You are in fact a chump too. The difference is your a narrisist chump. Your are lying to yourself your that fucking special when I assure you- sadly you are just guilable.

    Something my cheater used to like was well, ALL arttention. Took me having my life obliterated to see the got off on good attention, bad attention, hate, jealously, anything around people being AFFECTED by him was great for him.

    You have lasted as the OW because you stayed in your spot telling yourself you were important and that you blew up his life because of your magic soulmate Pusey so the least you can do is be cool with him talking to his frigid ex EVERYWEEK. And being ok with NO ONE knowing you. You are in an alternate universe with that thinking.

    He was calling her trying to come home is my quests and being the good person his wife probably is- she was soft hearted about he children, in-laws, and like she built with this person whip she was probably fucking her husband till the day she found out about you.

    Never do suspect he has played you? Your in another state by his choosing, never a part of his actually life or parents, your going to be supporting him now, and you still think this is at all a real thing? At least mist of his here invested in an serious committed relationship in the open with our partners. Our world may have blown up but we didn’t start as dirty little secrets.

    Therapy, change, dumping him. Maybe there is hope for you… or perhaps you get off on blowing up people’s lives because you need that to feel special. I don’t know you. I know that it stokes a nerve because my ex was telling people all this shit to multiple skanks while I was committed for life thinking he was too…

  • I know this post is from 2014, but I would say he wasn’t introducing Rozie to family because the family had sided with his wife and wouldn’t have approved.

    My husband’s family didn’t approve of his whore. His father was livid when he found out they’d gotten back together. They’re still on good terms with me, but think he’s a complete and utter fuck-up.

  • Well, for anyone wondering what an OW is like who is A-OK with a man abandoning his family, leaving the kids to what he sees as a “wife appliance,” and essentially being indifferent to the lives and well-being of his children, here ya go. They’re soulmates. She is surprised that after 3 years of abandonment, the wife might like to kick this idiot cheater to the curb. She’s worried about…how people see her, how the kids don’t know her and the family and friends don’t know her…And even though they are soul mates, it occurs to her to wonder if he might be using her for money.

    I’m about to die laughing.

  • Yep! THIS rarity! My in laws aligned with me and the kids. He found out the hard way. His Dad referred to Schmoopie as a used up whore to my Ex’s face. My FIL tried hard to get him to actually see what he was doing to his life and family, but he just couldn’t get through to him. Not surprised that my beloved FIL suffered a deadly heart attack just hours after cheater and Schmoopie had visited. They actually had to turn the car around to go back. Then Schmoopie wanted to know if she was going to attend the funeral!!!!!! Oh HELL NO! He made her stay in the hotel and had her rent a car to get out of town because his kids and I were going to be arriving soon! Then the final kicker was his Dad had changed his Will! He was not in it and his Dad had left him nothing! I knew because his father had told me he had changed his Will the year before. He did not, in his words, “want him wasting his money on his whore!” My Ex so under estimated his families hatred for his Schmoopie!

      • NewDsyDawning, actually I did get his share! My FIL was a wonderful man. And I suspect my Ex wanted to reconcile to regain his assets more than anything. I did sell the house I got in the divorce and moved. Ex expressed surprise that he did not have any stake in the proceeds! What the fuck did he think he signed a quit claim deed for???? He must have been deep in LaLaLand when he was signing off on all his assets after the divorce was final! I really believe he thought I was so stupid that I would let him opt in or out of our marriage anytime he chose just to suit himself! It is tragically sad as he is desperately ill and dying with nothing, but he must know he did this to himself!

        • Good for your FIL, Roberta! The idea of more consequences must be a bitch for your Ex, but he needs to own up that he bet on the wrong horse. Counting on your chumped former spouse to bail out your sorry ass isn’t a smart move.

          PS The Fucktard I was fool enough to marry died a tragically sad and lonely death too, after I wouldn’t reengage with that Hoovering idiot. I sometimes wonder if the disordered are truly confused when their discarded chump elects not to honor that old defunct voided-out promise “’till death do us part” when they get to the sickness phase.

    • Your late FIL is awesome. I hope I get to meet him on the other side.

      Here’s to all of the longsuffering cheater families who side with the chump. It’s no small thing to choose what’s right over your own blood.

    • My father-in-law is coming into town today. Guess where he is staying? With the kids and me. His sister is coming a few days later. Guess where they are staying? With the kids and me.

      I realize that could change if STBX ends up marrying OW, but his family made it clear that they love me and want to stay family. They do not want to cut him off and want to “support” him but their disapproval of his choices is obvious. Having them in our lives is good for my kids. As long as it doesn’t get too hard for me, then I will continue.

      • My MIL sided with me as well – and similarly has stated that her next visit she’ll stay with me and kids. She also cut off contact with his shmoopie. MIL put together the details herself…but of course I am on the receiving end of my STBX’s fury that I’ve somehow destroyed his relationship with his family. And he’s far more concerned with how his schmoopie’s feelings will be hurt by being “defriended” by his mom than how I might feel for being abandoned and cheated on.

        How can these addlepated cheaters not comprehend that it might be their OWN actions causing their family’s ire? If their own family thinks what they’re doing is wrong, maybe it’s because it’s wrong!!!

        • That’s silly. He fired you from that job of cleaning up his messes. Fixing it for Schmoopie isn’t your concern.

  • Regarding OW, if you read any of their blogs or books or whatever, it is a very common thing to try to put all the “blame” on the married man. He mislead them, he lied to them, he used them, blah, blah, blah. One of the sites even had a” glossary ” of “what it means” when a married man says (insert whatever he said). They console each other, rant about how ugly, stupid, fat, lazy wives are, and how bad the married men themselves are. But never a nod to what the OW did to create the situation ( accept advances from a married man,) or any thoughts on how to help themselves, other than to move on to the next mm.

    • OOOH, I hadn’t thought about Others going online to complain Anita (I’m so dense some times) so after reading your post I had to look it up. I’m going to find the brain bleach now.

  • Ooohhh how i wish i can just forward this to the shit head OW or whichever dumb bitch he’s currently courting at the moment!!

  • All of this boils down to maturity – mental, emotional, spiritual – and how you view yourself and your choices in relation to the world. Also, we always believe that the choice is either/or, when sometimes the real choice is neither.

    If you are mentally and emotionally mature and see your relationship with the world as being a “part” of a much larger “whole,” you tend to view your choices and behavior in terms of “how will this choice affect . . . ” and you consider the ramifications of your choices and their effects on your family, society, etc. – the larger whole. If you are growth challenged, mentally, emotionally or whatever, your view of the world is narrowed to how any situation impacts you. It’s not that you don’t necessarily “see” or “care” about anything else, but your needs, feelings, wants and desires always come first and preempt everything else.

    Looking at this OW, and really most if not all Cheaters and OW, her belief in her exceptionality, whether acknowledged or unacknowledged, allows her not only to actually victimize someone else by her choices, but to be able to rationalize and justify that victimization as a “rescue mission” as opposed to a “terrorist attack.” It is a different way of thinking.

    People who think like this become invested in a narrative that supports their worldview. The reasons why are rooted in things over which I had nor have any control. My only consideration is if this thinking and behavior is acceptable to me. I tend to, particularly now, stay away from people who show themselves to be untrustworthy. I don’t care why you’re untrustworthy – that’s your problem to work on, or not – my job is to identify it and get away from it.

    While I can understand this OW, but I cannot offer her much sympathy. Out of all the information she is unable to process or understand, the most important information of which she was in possession was that this man was married with children. Whatever he told her after that is irrelevant. His wife did not know she was married to a cheater. The young woman knew she was becoming involved with a liar and a cheater. Any choice she made after that negates any sympathy or compassion I might have for her plight. You do what you do and you get what you get.

    • “her belief in her exceptionality, whether acknowledged or unacknowledged, allows her not only to actually victimize someone else by her choices, but to be able to rationalize and justify that victimization as a “rescue mission” as opposed to a “terrorist attack.”

      Brilliant, ChumpPrincess (your whole post). Captures their rationalization and way of thinking exactly.

  • Wow, rose colored glasses indeed. I feel sorry for her. She sounds so young.

    However, it continues to confound me 1) why anyone would want to have a serious long-term relationship with someone who is openly cheating while in a long term relationship, and 2) why people think divorce is a mysteriously onerous process designed to strip the person filing of their money and assets. In no other arrangement is it OK for a person to leave their business unfinished and move on to something new. Would this be acceptable if a surgeon got bored during surgery and left a wound open?

    Yes, divorce takes time and can sometimes be challenging. There are laws in place to make it equitable and fair.

    If your partner is working full time and claims they don’t have any money to pay for rent/etc — something is seriously wrong. And no, he did not give his X wife all his money because he felt guilty, lol!

  • Things I want in a mate: (This can be for a male or a female mate)

    I want them to be married to someone else. That circumstance will work so well for all parties involved.

    I want them to be unemployed. Living on one income is so dependable these days.

    I want them to be able to walk away from their spouse, children, and extended family. What a wonderful dependable person! How caring! How responsible!

    I want them to be willing to run, oops I mean walk away, from the entire life they know — family, friends, job, — without a backward look, because that means they would never be likely to do that to me. I am so special.

    Delusional much?

    Seriously, I think I am a pretty wonderful woman, but I cannot imagine I am so wonderful that I would cause a good, decent, honest, hardworking man to ever abandon every aspect of his life, nor do I ever see myself being content supporting a man who lost his job because he had done all of that. Nor could I ever trust him. I couldn’t even trust myself if I made the decision to get involved with a man who I knew was willing to do all that.

    I don’t feel sympathy for someone who is that delusional and who also shows no remorse or feeling for the wife and children left behind. I think there will be tough consequences for making such devastating choices. I think you learn from your mistakes, or you never learn.

    • If you were that awesome and you had men lining up toleave their wives to be with you, BECAUSE you are so awesome you would “just say no” because that’s what moral decent human beings do! THAT is the difference. Those stupid whores are just that. Immoral, stupid whores!

  • I definitely do not feel sorry for my Ex’s OW! This was a married woman who was feeding BS to three different men on Facebook before she reeled in my Ex! She stalked my family to Disney without my knowledge and took pictures with my Ex while I was running around standing in lines for pictures with princesses with my grandchildren! She knew he was married. She “friended” me on Facebook and knew I loved my husband. She simply didn’t care. She would call me during the affair and tell me my husband was leaving me for her. She would come to my small town and shack up with him at a hotel that I had to pass by with her car in plain sight so I could see it! It would enrage me! She knew I had cancer and made sure my Ex was occupied with her and NEVER even called anyone to see how I was! She was acutely aware of what she was doing. Of course her life fell apart prematurely when her husband found out she was screwing my husband! He divorced her in record time and even used her own brother who is an attorney to accomplish the divorce. She had NO attorney! No one can tell me that she was not aware of what she was doing. I have zero sympathy for her. She deserves nothing less than disgust for her actions which were deliberate! These OW really believe they are sooo super special and they deserve your husband! They are mentally ill!

    • OMG – the OW in your situation Roberta is a complete pyscho! Stalking you to Disney? Holy Shit!
      My XH’s OW was a stalker as well. Sent her friend to a restaurant where we’d take our lunch frequently on Saturdays. Engaged me in conversation. Then, after I was served with divorce papers, days later same friend sent me a FB request. A few weeks later, I learned about OW. XH had originally told me he was leaving because he didn’t want the responsibility of marriage. Then I found out about his whore from frequent flyer miles he used to get tickets for them to go away on his birthday. She was a COW – found out from his other co-worker, that FB friend was OW’s bestie. These people are crazy.

      • NoKibble4U, my Ex’s Schmoopie was clearly a sociopath! During our Disney visit my then husband stayed alone at the condo we had rented because he said he didn’t feel well. I’m sure Schmoopie arrived shortly after we left and they screwed in the bed we slept in! I also had the opportunity to visit a hotel room they were sharing shortly after they started thier affair. I wasn’t quiet that night! I was ready to beat them both to death! My then husband was clearly scared and stunned, but Schmoopie was cool as a cucumber, never broke a sweat and just started packing her shit in an overnight case! I pegged her as a sociopath right then and there! It was either that or she had been in this position many other times! I mean she acted like it was NO BIG DEAL!!! That bitch thought she was superior and she knew no boundaries. She also came to my small town and introduced herself as me!! I shut that shit down through my lawyer and then she stopped. She is a sneaky, sleazy bitch

        • Ugh! She’s a piece of shit Roberta. My XH’s wife tress was experienced at invading marriages as well. Her first H was married when she met him as well…while they worked at Disneyworld.

          I think OW have a thing for Disney – maybe it’s the fairy princess shit. She drags my XH to run marathon’s there. It’s funny…he’s always hated Disney. Bad memories from when he literally shit his pants as a 13 year old there, I guess.

          I believe whore in my case is a narcissist and probably a sociopath. She initiated the restraining order bit with me. Had him doing NC with me. I had no idea what was going on – just that my X had seemingly changed like the flip of a switch.

  • Certainly, I can’t understand for the life of me why Rozie wrote to CL at all, other than the fact that she obviously recognizes on some level that her soulmate is not so great. But I’m also not feeling entirely condemnatory because although the emotional affair came to light, it sounds like they weren’t sleeping together previous to him leaving, and although I think it’s shitty, I don’t think it was full-on adultery either. While I it’s foolish for anyone to engage with a guy who isn’t divorced (and hasn’t filed!!) and layers his relationships this way, I don’t think what happened here is to the same level as what many of us have dealt with. People do fall out of love with their spouses and leave marriages; once you’re separated I think people are allowed to carry on as they want to and I’m not gonna raise hell about that. However, the way this was conducted was not respectful to this man’s wife and family, and no wonder his kids are so pissed at him. His wife sounds SMART and like she has good boundaries. Awesome that she kicked him out after he wouldn’t choose her and their family. Awesome that she filed. I have a lot of respect for that. And yes, Rozie thinking his wife stepped aside so their relationship could grow? That is absolutely fucking delusional.

    • Based on this statement, “His wife found out about our friendship and insisted on marriage counseling and they did that for awhile. During counseling he could not make the decision between her or me, so she asked him to move out.”

      count me as very dubious that the letter writer was not more than “just a friend” before his wife threw him out. More minimizing and obfuscating on the part of the OW.

  • Oh I love how this whole thing smacks of delusion. My ex hooked up with someone from his past “just to see what she would do for him”. And it turned out she was willing to do a lot. She left her husband and son to move 3000 miles to be with my husband. She then paid for his divorce lawyer, moved them back to Florida and who knows what else. All under the assumption of “true love!”. I’m sure his impotence has kicked in by now along with his disregard and disdain.

    She can have him.

    • What is it with Florida and cheaters?! That’s where my Ex found his Schmoopie! Kind of wish the state would break off and float towards Cuba! And if I have to hear”we’re just friends” or the word “soul mate” ever again from some aging whore then I’m sure I’ll be forced to throw them over the hotel balcony where they were polishing thier “friendship skills” just moments before I busted in! Yuck!!!!

      • Haha great post. I agree but lots of cheaters everywhere please dont wish me to float to cuba! Hee hee just teasing!

        • You sound so happy, Kar Mare! Enjoy your new life in Florida! Sun and surf and cheater free!

          • Thank you! Not as happy as i would like to be but getting. Just to be away from the day to day madness is happiness to be sure. And florida has its share of many many red flags cept now i can see them from a mile away!

      • Haha great post. I agree but lots of cheaters everywhere please dont wish me to float to cuba! Hee hee just teasing!

      • Florida – A Sunny Place for Shady People

        My EX’s Piece of Ass/OWife was living in Florida. Now both of the Shady Mofos live there.

        Why wish them on Cuba? I’ve heard the people in Cuba are great. No need to punish them.

  • No sympathy for the devil.
    If you stopped throwing your “soulmate” kibbles, he’d go back for cake. Guaranteed. The only one controlling this situation was his wife. She wouldn’t accept his betrayal so he stayed with you.
    How does it feel to be a concession prize/meal ticket? Because that’s all you’ll ever be to him. And not because he’d rather be with his wife, but because in the end, you’re the idiot who’d put up with his narcissist bullshit. If not you, than it’d be some other poor, schmoopie with little to no self worth.
    Someone who has self worth, doesn’t wreck an otherwise well adjusted family. Instead of investing time in your “friendship” you would have given him some advice to see a shrink or MC to sort out his shit. Instead you made yourself available to someone who wasn’t. And you wonder why he doesn’t introduce you to his family or friends?
    It would expend far too much energy for him to paint you in a positive light after your participation in destroying his family.
    In other words, you aren’t worth the time.
    Even if you eventually married- to his friends and family, you will always be the “other woman”.
    When you break up a marriage, you’re breaking up so much more. You are essentially, breaking up a community. You are dismantling a matriarchy. The betrayed mother succumbs to a pain that disrupts her ability to manage a family, and that pain is much like a plague- spreading outwardly onto other loved ones… Like ripples in a pond.
    I don’t think, Rozie, you understand the extent of the pain in which YOU caused, just by being a willing participant in the destruction of a family. And you never will until it happens to you.
    Coming onto this site for advice was foolhardy.

  • This Rozie could be the OW who stepped right into my marriage to make it a triangle. Pretty much the same facts. He played both of us until I finally filed. He gave up me, his son, my family, all our friends. His entire life throughout this 36 year old marriage. His family- his father, brother and sister- they all disappeared from my life and from my son’s life. Until literally, just yesterday, after hearing that my son got engaged. A congratulatory text from his brother and sister, too little, too late. Of course the ex himself didn’t contact me. But his version of Rozie- she also has a house she is paying for that he moved into, a pension he is living off of, utilities she is paying, food he is eating. He gave up everything to be with her and now they have nothing and nobody but each other. Did he use her? Of course he did. He didn’t want to work anymore and she had a big pension and a house on the beach in FL. He didn’t want to live in cold NY anymore. It’s a cost benefit analysis for these fuckwits. Who can he use more? Who’s of more benefit to him? Who’s newer and more sparkly? Who can make the old dick still rise? Who will still buy his bullshit? And bullshit it all is. So he didn’t divorce me. He never would have. He “thought we were on a break.” He would have come back again and again until I finally said no. Is she innocent? Does she have no idea what she did? Of course not. She wanted what she wanted and didn’t care about the consequences. So if she feels isolated or unaccepted. Used and a little dirty. Completely clueless about hurting the other wife and child(ren)? Bullshit. More games. More lies. They totally deserve each other. What comes around goes around.

    • “On a break?” So it’s like a college spring break from 36 years of marriage, while Cheaterpants test drives a new relationship and you are supposed to remain available to interview for your current position? That is appalling.

  • I really don’t understand the level of self-delusion (and I can be a full fledged idiot at times) it takes to think that if someone is unreliable to their significant other of many years that they won’t be unreliable to you. Their behaviour is because of who they are not because of who their significant other is. They will not be one person with their significant other and another person with you. You are not magic Rozie.

  • Well, what’s old is new again so let’s run it through the Rinse cycle as long as we’re already on Repeat: “A Refresher Course for Star Crossed ‘Soul Mates’ On The Sunk Costs of Self-Induced Perfidy.”

    My Dear Rosie the Rivited,
    Since it appears you have chosen to remain stuck to a reprobate of an impotent old man like a barnacle, let’s clarify a few Facts of Fucking Inna Free Fall Fantasy: There is no “soul mate” any more than there is an Easter Bunny or Big Foot. I’m sorry. This marketing concept exists purely in cheap bodice buster novels found on sale for a dime (well, a nickel if ya wanna haggle at a yard sale for the animal shelter) or Cosmo for Preteens and Other Underage Jail Bait. Let’s be practical shall we? Humor me please, Imma old widow who became one waaayyy too young with an “Arc of History” that includes some spectacular crash and burns and inevitably, if ya hang around long enough a few immutable Realities emerge. Young widows get a lotta opportunities the typically aged ones don’t including a load of married or partnered up potential “boyfriends.” “NO” is a complete sentence. That’s the only word you’ll ever need to wake up to the next morning alone, yes -and with a clear conscience. And it’s the only thing that doesn’t regret the booze etc. you imbibed the night before or will ever regret acting with a functioning conscience, period.

    Reality is just like gravity-and gravity always wins. The reality is, you found a male who, when confronted with the reality his window of opportunity to sample free pussy on the side
    was rapidly approaching it’s expiration date, was not about to pass up your offer of a stimulating “friendship.” Methinks by that point in your life you realized as long as your drive through window had been open 24/7/365 for a not insubstantial Arc of It’s Own History, it was time for your snatch to pilfer some semblance of dignity and faux-tegrity by throwing yourself at de feet-his. You traded your well worn knee pads for a “sold mate.” And perhaps if you huffed and puffed and blew (him) long and hard enough, he would become a Stand Up Kinda Guy(tm) instead of a flaccid fuck buddy.

    I have a gag reflex when it involves calling things by their right name and it causes me to choke when ever I hear middle aged or older adults refer to themselves or their partner as a “girlfriend” or a “boyfriend:” When they are beyond midway past their position on an actuary table heading precipitously on the downward slide into AARP memberships, senior citizen discounts and Depends, just ohhellno. Please, when your axillary hair is becoming as sparse as the hair on your head (or the synapses therein) and you are now able to partake of an unobstructed view of things you haven’t seen since you were 11, you are no longer a “girl” or a “boy” anything: You are aging “out” of your skin suit. You have now hit the point in life where your external body is on re-wind back to pre-pubesent proportions-with the exception of “the girls” who are now pointing in a southerly direction and seeking solace in your belly button. That does not mean your brain should join in the shit show. Therefore, considering the length of his marriage plus three years of whoring around and the average age of first marriages in the latter part of the 20th century, we have established you both are the embodiment of the adage, “There’s no fool like an old fool.” Unless it’s two. Or one where “old” looms like a Harvest Moon on a clear night, ‘K?

    This guy never had any intention of locking in anything more than your genitals together into the indefinite future. Hence, he remained legally married as a transparently ho(hum) ploy to logically counter your dreams of your feathered nest (we *will return* to your “feathering fantasy”) via marital acquisition of legitimacy and resources: This is called Legal Hypergamy For Whores. How could you successfully counter his moral (if he had any) and legal (does not “do” sanctions that include jail) aversion to bigamy? Ah! But his wife, a woman of substance did not “step aside” to facilitate your illicit relationship, not a chance. Once she became aware she had been conjugally crapped on by a con, she stepped back to ensure she had all the documentation and timing necessary to extract optimum return on investment for her Sunk Costs, all 25 yrs. and a couple a kids later. Unlike you, she strategically planned her future based on a reality informed, painful but factual Truth: She had been chumped and like Pete Townsend promised all those decades ago, she “Won’t Get Fooled Again.” Surprise! Sunk Costs (your “soul mate” fantasy + your “feathered nest” strategy) plus Interest (your’s), Dividends (his perfidy and your’s) and Capitol Gains (her painfully won “Lessons Learned”) were tallied and….she proceeded to financially castrate him and concurrently divest him of any hope of retiring until he drops dead. Rosie, please note this class act, this allegedly drab sexless woman walked away with the “feathered nest,” her integrity, her children and her reputation intact. And you got? Oh that’s right: Laid. And pharmacy bills for “Viva Viagra.” (Sigh. If only they had such a pill called “Viva Get-A-Life-of-Your-OwnViagra.”)

    Anytime you have to hide what you’re doing, you KNOW it’s WRONG. Full Stop. THAT is why you will never have a wedding day, a marriage or social acceptance in your “home state” or anywhere for that matter. You both know your dirty little secret “relationshit” was wrong despite your attempt to shuck-n-jive around that reality. It’s not necessarily that people dislike you or him personally even if they superficially smile and give you the time of day (and then snicker behind their hands at you two fools) but in fact are disgusted by *anyone* who demonstrates an appalling longitudinal lack of integrity. Period. Vegas doesn’t include the vast majority of the population and promotes itself just like you promoted this relationship: A fantasy.

    So, you are concerned about supporting his ass? My dear, isn’t that what “soul mates” do? Unconditional love and all that? It’s rather unseemly you are so focused on financial accounting but not on personal accountability. One would almost think (gasp!) you were in this “relationshit” for the money-just like any ho. So he pimped you out-where’s the surprise in that? Despite the reality your Expiration Date for “use by” has passed and you didn’t notice or are frantically hiding from this Reality, (you do excel in that area) here’s another Reality to grasp: Even in decrepitude, your penis challenged hunny can find some facsimile of a dirt cheap Anna Nicole Smith with the perky after market jugs installed who will hump him for pennies on the dollar while your Exchange Rate continues to plummet in inverse proportion to your age.

    Infidelity bingo and hubris in massive quantities resulted in Ka-Ching! for the wife and Natural Consequences that could be discerned from Google Earth-for you. Had you kept your pussy home and under adult control as your chronological age reveals even if your behavior does not, you would not be holding a Short Sell that massively failed because you refused to accept reality and needed to believe the prognostications of your proven morally and ethically bankrupt AP/Broker. Even if such a phenomena as “Soul Mates” did exist, it’s functional assumption necessarily includes HAVING a soul, not a large, gaping black hole in another part of one’s anatomy.

    TW’s Rules of Life #2: When ya do whatcha did, ya get whatcha got. So never bet against the Reality of a Well Established House: The House *always* wins.

  • “Longitudinal lack of integrity” is just so damned perfect. Thanks for all of this, Tundra Woman.

  • Rozie, watch the movie “She devil” Meryl Streep and Roseanne Barr, it will give you lighthearted look into your new life lol

  • Chump Lady wrote,

    “Of all the blogs on the entire internet, you chose ME to ask for advice?”

    Well, maybe, despite her rosiecoloredglasses and blind optimism, she realized that most of those other blogs were a load of crap and you have a great grasp of reality and truth.

    Thanks for being here. From all of us. Well, probably all of us. Anyone who wants to abstain from this thank you, just chime in.

    Hugs. Strength. Peace.

  •, you silly, stupid little girl…

    They don’t even know you’re still in the picture, if they EVER knew. It’s entirely possible they think their dad’s a jerk for moving out “for being unhappy”… and nothing else. He controls the entire narrative and you happily accept it (grew apart, went to counseling, she couldn’t bear that he couldn’t decide between his wife and mistress, all his money goes to her and the kids/he’s not hiding assets or additional income until after the divorce, while you half support him) as long as you get majority custody of a cheating liar.

    You know what?

    Yes, he loves you. He’ll accept you once his divorce is final and his “head is on straight”… that might take years or forever but he’ll do it eventually. Just keep waiting for it, for as long as it takes. It’s what you deserve.


  • My personal thoughts are that if you are dating/screwing/living with/sneaking around with another woman’s husband, boyfriend, fiancé, etc. you have much larger problems than what random people on the internet think about you or what they call you. Period. You know that this is wrong. Don’t try to pretend it isn’t.

    If you don’t want to be thought of that way, don’t behave that way. It’s really that simple.

  • Ow unite! Its not fair! The world is against them. Shucks.
    Well what a big fat shame it is not totally rosy in Shangri-la.
    After all their twu luv has ridden rough shod over all those other poor fools lives.
    Surely it should all be purrrrfect now? IF NOT, WHY NOT?
    God in heaven, what is wrong with these idiots? I watched a zoo programme yesterday and quite honestly chimps are more sorted.

  • Haven’t read all the comments so I don’t know if this statement has been pecked at yet.

    RozieGlasses – ‘During counseling he could not make the decision between her or me, so she asked him to move out.”

    OK, sure – that’s the way it was. She ‘politely’ asked him to move out when he couldn’t decide between her and her kids or a common whore. Well, I sure wasn’t polite about it when I kicked his fucking ass to the curb in one swift blow. (almost) . Didn’t have my real shit kicking boots on then…but they were all the gear I had in me at the time. It worked and I also changed the locks immediately.
    It was HUGE drama at the time. Friends involved, etc.
    If this silly little creature thinks she can swallow his b/s with words he has spoon-fed this pathetic Plan B by telling her – the wife escorted him out and she was also supporting her and her kids backing off for the sake of their soul-mate love….Annd, I’d bet my peanuts to her pussy that he was fucking his wife all along, dear.

    Gad, what a fantasy. If she weren’t so pathetic, I’d probably be laughing my ass off.
    But, watching this asshole’s downfall would give me greater pleasure. I don’t waste my time thinking about what pathetic samples of OW and OM in our society that we can’t seem to kick out of our universes. But, I’m working on it. One C/L post at a time.

  • Wife has a new guy and wants to move on. At least I hope that she has.
    The pos has had a lot of free sex. It is a porn watchers dream life………except it isn’t. You are a willing vagina in a youthful body. His other life is his real life. He is a selfish asshole and you are an idiot.

  • I think that the cheater really does believe he is in love with the other woman when he is in the throes of his affair. Most cheaters are Cluster B’s – narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths – who are not able to transition from the infatuation stage of the honeymoon phase into mature, companionate love. They cheat on their spouses not just for sex, but to experience the thrill of the infatuation stage with another. This IS love to a cheater. What makes the great sex even greater is that they are doing it behind their spouse’s back with someone they are not supposed to be with. The new lover’s job is to reflect back to the cheater how fabulous and awesome they are in response to the cheater’s over-the-top lovebombing. The cheater’s spouse is in the scapegoat role and is being devalued. The devalued spouse’s deficiency in the cheater’s eyes is justification for the affair. The affair is a fantasy where no real world problems exist and the most pressing issue of the day is what position and how many orgasms. The tide turns when the devalued spouse realizes that they are not loved by the person who was supposed to love them and steps out of the triangle. The cheater has destroyed what they had with their spouse. If the other woman is willing to take them on, then perhaps they can maintain their image with just the right smear campaign directed at their former spouse. The cheater will become bored with the other woman once she has committed to him and the relationship is no longer an escapist fanstasy. Once real life intrudes, the matters that were once taken care of by that boring, sexless, mean spouse will now have to be taken care of by the other woman. The household budget must be met, the cleaning must be done, the meals must be prepared, the dishes must be washed, the car must be maintained. Suddenly, there is more on the agenda than stolen kisses, stolen moments, what positon and how many orgasms. Oh, and who will be the scapegoat? The cheater once projected his self-loathing on that boring, sexless, mean spouse, but where will it be projected now? Not projecting it is not an option.

    I am 2 years out from D-Day and I think every day about the confrontation I had with XH over the infidelity evidence. Although he never confessed to cheating, he said, “You say I’m madly in love and I have a girlfriend.” I never said that; I just confronted him with the evidence. I took this statement from him as as admission of his love for his affair partner. He was unemployed; I had supported him for years. The OW did not take him on; he went to live with his mother. I believe this was because the other woman was a greedy married sociopathic slut who did not want to give up her husband’s income to support a man who was unemployed, despite the fact that he threw out little nuggets that suggested they were really complimentary towards each other regarding their private parts. I will always regard XH as being “madly in love” with the other woman and as spending the rest of his life yearning for her and fantasizing about the great sex they had. Of course I know if she ever really took him on, the bloom would be off the rose as soon as they became bored with each other and started abusing and cheating on each other.

    • Sorry, if it’s my ex, the answer to “how many orgasms” would be exactly, none. He really was that sorry in bed.

    • The bloom is usually off the rose of an illicit affair the minute they have to shop for toilet paper together…??

    • The bloom is usually off the rose of an illicit affair the minute they have to shop for toilet paper together…

    • Chumptacular- thank you so very much for this. You wrote out beautifully exactly what I’ve been trying, and failing miserably to express.

  • Dear Rozieglasses, I find your letter offensive and I think you are disgusting! To write a letter asking advice from CL and a bunch of chumps, when you are knowingly having an affair with a married man is just plain sick! Are you getting off on this? I am seriously questionning your motives. Go grow a character, maybe some morals and a life. You suck and you deserve the loser you are in love with. I am praying that the wife has gained a life and is laughing her ass off at you and her ex. Some chumps are empathetic to your tale of woe, but not me… you deserve what you are living… a big fat joke!

  • Oh, Rozie?

    Another thing I remembered. A man dying in hospital. What with the morphine and impending death, he got distressed.

    Do you know what his OW/wife#2 had to stand and listen to? Him crying and calling out for his first wife with his dying breath, as he faced his real self.

    A therapist told me this week: the love of a man’s life is most often the woman he cheated on. Why? Because of what Chump Lady tells you again and again: THE MARRIAGE AND THE WIFE ISN’T WHY HE CHEATS.

    So good luck with your Rozieglasses.

    • That’s a great observation. Patsy. Even though the cheaters like to play the ” I never loved my wife” bullshit, I don’t think the majority of cheaters married someone they didn’t love. Unless they are psychopaths, obviously.

      Ex tried that one with me. He was never happy, never loved me, blah, blah, blah. He only had anything to do with me cause he ‘felt sorry for me. “. Sure thing, asswipe. I know better. I think they basically want to bail, well, cause Adulting is Hard. And notice I didn’t say Marriage is Hard. With the right person, ie an Adult I think it’s fairly easy. Ow like Rosie provide an escape from Adulting, I think that is the actual appeal. Nothing more. They don’t even have to act like real boyfriends with these whores. I mean how many chicks who met Rosie’s soulmate without him cheating on his marriage would tolerate his shit ?

    • I also think that’s one reason women become Affair Partners. Like the whore my ex pursued. She couldn’t keep a man in a real relationship so obviously she wasn’t relationship material. They didn’t date each other when they were both single. Hmmm. He knew her long before me. They only became Irresistible to each other after he was married to me. Why is that? Cause neither one of them had to Adult, ie. Have a real relationship. She didn’t have to meet his lunatic family, or wash his shit tracked drawers, or even cook his damn dinner. He didn’t have to see her when she had just woken up, or when she was just sitting around the house after a hard day and didn’t want to be bothered with him. Neither of them had to face criticism from each other or the outside world. That’s why you are a secret Rose. He never meant to introduce you to his world. But his wife tossed him out and you were the Path of Least Resistance.

      • Wow so brilliantly put, thrill kind of fades when your home after work Monday night cooking dinner and watching reality tv..

  • “He’s so unhappy”
    “His wife’s a big meanie”
    “They never have sex”
    When the Worm was going full tilt with his Pookie. We were intimate at least three times a week. Plus when he finally admitted to the affair, I caught him at her house, and he told me how unhappy he had been for years…..well that was the first time I’d heard that!!!!
    Cheaters are liars and you can’t believe a word they say.
    The sooner this PSA gets out the better!
    The Worm now keeps a running tally on how many days I’be been out of the house. And woe is him because it’s been x number of days without horrible old me.
    I had a date recently say to me, “Your STBX husband must be completely crazy because you are an amazing woman”……
    Booyah….mike drop!?

  • As a heterosexual male I would still rather lick the sweat from under Satan’s ball sack than make the choices you did Rosie.

    Cheaters and AP’s suck……..fuck you all

  • Honestly Rozie, I think things might be easier for you to leave if you think about the very likely possibility of this guy doing the exact same thing to you that he did to his wife. Why wouldn’t he? Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. He seems unrepentant and generally self-centered. Those kinds of people have a hard time making lasting change. So if you’re ready to have him talking to some rando woman about how terrible your relationship is down the line because of you not being a perfect person, and then you’re cool with him f*cking this lady, well then I guess you can stay in the relationship. But know that’s the arrangement you’re getting yourself into. You’re an adult. If what you want is to be with this man and you’re fine accepting this likelihood, plus being kept away from certain areas of his life (e.g. the friends and family you have back home), then you are welcome to keep engaging in the relationship. He’s getting divorced, after all.

  • I always wait for the “Fun Friday” @ CL I have been reading this all day!! ?. I think I will change his name to Whore- Meister mentioned by on of the ladies today & Whore version 9.0 will be baptized as Lady C (if you know what I mean) waiting for him to sign MSA once is done I will try to tell him that on his face!!! I very calm polite because how he said this divorce is “amicable” YEs of
    course since he was already single a long time ago without me knowing it!!! Idiot!!!

    Another good topic for a fun Friday should be the stupid things that happen between our kids & the “whores” pretty soon my kid will be surprise with the presence of “lady C ” my kid is in the pre-teen years is getting a little bit stubborn & on top of that kid will have to deal with “Teenage Daddy” & “Lady C” kid is only child and kid adores “Teenager Dad” it will be an epic fight!!! I do not want to be on the circus it will break my heart but Whore- meister looked for it! Idiot!

  • Nearly 28 years ago, I was in my mid twenties, and almost four years into a what I thought was a “perfect” marriage. I came home from work to an empty house, and a note taped onto our bedroom door. Thank God, I had no children, but I was shocked and devastated. Despite my pleadings, I never spoke to, or saw him again. I was left to flounder, wonder, and deal with the pain and shock. Though he wrote in his note that he “just didn’t want to be married anymore”, he of course had been having an affair. The woman was six years older than he was with three different children from two different men. She was pregnant again, this time by my husband, within six months of him leaving. This woman had her first child at age 13…you read that correctly, 13!!!! I raged, fumed and blamed her. I HATED her. Probably two years into counseling, I broke down one day in a counseling session, and said if only she hadn’t responded to his advances, we would still be married. My counselor looked at me sadly, with great sympathy, and said blaming her for his infidelity is like blaming car companies for our drunk driving problem. It took me a long time to let go of the hate, but what I believe all of these years later is that he never loved or respected me. If he did, he would have not cheated nor left me. Sad, but true. I ranted, raved and name called during the dark days of our separation and eventual divorce. I wondered how she could be so stupid, so naive. Years later, I recognized the reality for what it was. If it had not been her, it would have, eventually, been someone else. I have no idea what kind of marriage they have, nor do I have any desire to know. But yes, they are still married, this I know, and they have two children together, for a total of five between them. I’m certainly not taking all the blame, but clearly, for whatever reasons, he was not happy. I don’t condone cheating, and I would like to believe in an ideal world, the cowards would honest, and leave before creating these very messy situations. That being said, this has been going on since the dawn of time, and sadly, will probably continue until the end of time. When years later the clouds finally cleared, I realized that at a minimum I was expecting a level of clarity from her that I myself didn’t have. Why was she so stupid to believe all the things he surely said to her? When it came down to it, I was pretty clueless myself for not picking up on the signs that there was something up. He was a great liar, and there weren’t a whole lot of clues, but I bought what he told me hook, line and sinker, so why would did I expect that she wouldn’t? I had been married for nearly four years, with him another three before we got married, and I wasn’t able to discern his dishonesty. I completely understand the pain and anger, even though I am a lifetime removed from it. It took me a long, long time and years of counseling to understand that only he was responsible for his decisions. Many of these men are disordered, some are cowardly, and more than a few are probably a combination of both. My separation and divorce was one of the most difficult and heart wrenching journeys of my life. With the clarity that only years can bring, I finally realized that what I wanted at the time (my husband back, revenge on the OW, and the return of my “normal life”) was absolutely the last thing that I needed. Despite all of the differences in our situations, one thing remains true for all of us, and that is that we all deserve better.

    • Beautifully written and touching. I needed this comment today, as I sometimes have uncontrollable bouts of “well, what if we got back together?” (I never take these seriously but they still intrude upon my life fairly frequently.) At any rate, thank you for sharing and taking the time to compose something so striking.

  • The funny thing is, this is almost exactly the story of my ex and his Special Lady and me, the wife. I really wonder if she wrote it. If so, I didn’t “step back” for that stupid whore–but for my own sanity and safety. It’s been years and I’ve never met the stupid bitch, nor have my children, and they will NEVER meet her as far as I am concerned. Ever. I’m not going to pretend to be one big happy family to make my ex feel good when he destroyed our happy family because of his midlife crisis.