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UBT: “You don’t need the specifics”

Another day, another cheating wife to decode. John writes:

After discovering far more than any man should know about his wife’s extra-curricular activities via months of dirty texts, I made the mistake of confronting her directly and while she was drunk, of all times.

Big surprise, she denied everything until she sobered up the next morning and then threatened to change the locks on me in my own house! Yes, very remorseful she is.

John sent conversations he had with his cheating (now soon-to-be-ex) wife, which I’ll feed to the UBT.

Her: How can I fix it? How can I be sorry enough?

A fair divorce settlement or a post-nup. Credit report. STD testing. And a lifetime of humility.

It’s out of your control now, cheater. Which is a scary place to be when you’ve had the big power trip of a double life. Frankly, this sounds like you’re just throwing up your hands at the whole idea. You’re asking your chump to take the lead on this reconciliation you think you’re entitled to. When really, why don’t you just starting ACTING sorry (see settlement, credit report, STD check, humility above) — instead of the whole Are-We-There-Yet whinging to your chump?

Her: My parents were not concerned with who it was, only that it happened. They didn’t ask me who the specific person was.

Well, if it’s good enough for your parents

Translation: Let’s not quibble over the particulars. I’d like to retain some of my powers of secrecy.

Me: Are you still seeing him? Her: I have no relationship to continue with him, it is all very complicated … sorry. This is the biggest regret of my life. I’m so sorry I hurt you.

I got dumped. Hey there, Plan B! Did I mention how SORRY I am?

Her: I know you are furious with me, and you have every right to be. But please make sure you are taking care of yourself. Despite everything, I really do care about you.

I know you’re furious with me for pistol-whipping you. And you have every right to be. But please make sure you’re applying Neosporin to that gaping wound. Despite holding you up at gunpoint, stealing your wallet, and bashing your face in with a pistol, I really do care about you.

Her: I do still love you. I was devastated when I realized I wouldn’t get a call at my desk today from you like I always do. Please eat something. You know you can’t think clearly or function if you don’t.

I was devastated to not get my daily apportionment of kibbles! Please eat something. You know you’ll be unable to sustain kibble production on an empty stomach.

Her: I know you don’t want to hear it, but I love you. And I’m devastated for what i’ve done to us. Regardless of what happens, I love you and will always be sorry for doing this to you.

I got dumped. Hey there, Plan B! Did I mention how SORRY I am?

Me: Were you trying to do it in our bed, or did you do it? Her: It was not in our bed, it was always in his bed. I’m going to lay it on the line, because I need to stop the lying, I was going to invite him to our bed.

Bitch cookie! I didn’t fuck him in our bed, I only thought about it.

Pick me dance NOW, Motherfucker!

Me: Was there others you were with? Her: I know you can’t trust me, but there was no one else.

There were probably others. The particulars don’t matter (and hey, you’d never believe me anyway!) what matters is that you’re still Plan B.

Me: You were drunk when I confronted you. Her: No. I was drunk on Sunday, but once we started talking on Monday, I have been honest with you. I don’t have a reason to lie to you any more.

I’m so much more truthful hungover.

Me: Your apology sucks and is insincere! Her: I don’t understand why you think my apology isn’t sincere. What is the incentive for me to lie? I did admit to you I cheated!

… Before the OM’s girlfriend/wife outed me. You don’t need the particulars of who I cheated with, where I cheated, or with how many (lies of omission aren’t lies!), just trust my sincerity on this. I’m furrowing my brow and pouting my lips. See my Sincere Face? Would this face lie to you?

Her: I do love you. I’ve hurt you terribly, but I really do love you. And i’m trying to do a lot of reading on infidelity and marriage. Even though you probably won’t give me another chance, I am trying to be honest with myself and try to start healing. Because I am obviously broken!

Hurting you terribly gives me such feelings of centrality! Kibbles! I’m reading a lot of resources now like “When Splendid People Cheat” and “Brokenness — All-Purpose Bullshit” and I’ve made real progress on my healing journal. (Pro tip: colored markers and glitter glue!)

I should have been able to communicate with you better instead of choosing a horrible outlet with devastating consequences. But regardless, I’m trying to do the best I can do right now going forward since I can’t go back and fix what I did. And do some intense soul-searching so I can get to the bottom of these emotions instead of sweeping them under the rug.

I’ll sweep the details of my affair(s) under the rug, but not my emotions! No sir.

Her: What can I do for you right now? I need to you to tell me.

Denying whatever it is you ask for makes me feel powerful.

Me: Are you still seeing him? Her: We aren’t seeing each other right now. I don’t know what I can do or say for you.

I got dumped. Hey there, Plan B! Did I mention how SORRY I am?

Her: My goal is to be able to have a discussion, in person, where we can really talk about things and we can both have open hearts and open minds. Honestly and respectfully.

I won’t answer any specific questions. I don’t know what I can say or do for you that involves truth. My goal is to have an open discussion with you, but it’s just a goal. Like, I’m going to quit eating carbs and start a thrift-savings plan, then I blow my paycheck on Krispy Kremes.

By “have a discussion, in person” I mean “Pick me dance, Motherfucker” and also “Your pain excites me.”

Her: Honey, I still don’t think we are ready to have this conversation yet. Everything is still angry and raw.

#neveragoodtime

I will determine the proper deference and mood with which you may approach me about those questions I will never honestly and respectfully answer.

Me: I ask her about taking a polygraph — Her: WHAT THE HELL? Stop this, I’m not even entertaining that idea.

Feel the sorry.

I asked you what I could do — I didn’t think you’d give me ACTUAL SUGGESTIONS.

Me: You want everything. And you don’t mind if you suffer. I think you like it. Her: It’s not fair to say I get satisfaction out of you suffering. Me: I don’t think it’s very fair you started fucking other people!

John, nothing to work with here, Dude. Run! (I think you’ll see Ben from yesterday up ahead of you.)

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Omg no kidding nothing to work with. She said she’s not seeing him now. Does that mean he’s not walking by her window at the moment she wrote that or maybe she’s just keeping him for later–after the conversation with you is done? Just get out now, nothing here to save.

    • LOL – my ex did the same. I would say “are you seeing her?” and his reply “not now”. Then I would go on FB and see her posts and a picture from the night before – with him smack in the middle. So…when he said…not now….that meant…NOT THIS NANOSECOND. Run John run and never look back.

      • Mine would say “We are done for now but I cannot guarantee the future. You see, she is my split-soul and if something had hapoened to her, the sole would call me to save her. She has a dangerous job and some people are after her. If something happened I would run to rescue her. This does not mean that I want to be with her as a human body with a human body. We are done with that part”
        P.s. this is after 12 years of cheating and her choosing yo go up the career ladder in her government rather than starting from 0 with the cheater in another country.

        • Longtimechump; WOW, she is your idiot’s “split soul”? That sounds really important, and also like crazymaking cheater speak soul splitting BULLSHIT! Too frickin’ much.

          • Regina,yes! Pre-CL me was frantically on google search on this and actually found plenty of articles on split souls vs soul mates – mostly around shamanic astrology. I believed the story someone told him about the split souls and believed his explanation: when they first met as masters students 20 yrs ago in their late 20s they hugged and were “glued to each other electrically for 15 min until I literally had to get unstuck from her.” A healthy male-female reaction on a physical contact. But…no! Not just that! There was a romantic story with a mystical component attached to it – something that he as a human being had no say in. All the higher forces made this decision for them. And so…after our first fight a year into the marriage he felt the urgency to investigate the electric hug over ” regular business trips meetups in various countires and for our entire marriage.”

            I was dancing like crazy trying to convince him that me and him were soul mates even if he had a split soul with her. Argh!

            Post-CL me told him I have nothing to do with your rotten soul pieces scattered around the world. Go pick them up and enjoy the fuck-unification!

            • Longtimechump, Wow! What an electrifying explanation!

              Did you ever ask Chump Lady to put this through the UBT? This one will need an entire new translation algorithm.

              As far as the stupid shit cheaters say goes, this one takes the cake-eaters cake.

              • YES Morse! They split their soul into smaller and smaller, more and more fucked up pieces that they leave behind in the AP every time they fuck someone they aren’t married to! Is it a surprise whore fucks and horcrux sound so similar?!

    • She’s not seeing OM “right now” — at least not until she gets the blinders firmly back on John!

    • In a subsequent discussion we talked about how we both brought problems to the marriage and did not work on them, which is true. I agreed with her that I did nothing about our problems, just as much as she did not, total two-way street. I, however, did not see any solutions to our problems by engaging in extramarital relations. Crickets after that, then tears.
      More signs: She can’t keep eye contact for more than three seconds, and this is the BEST: at the end of our discussion she asked if I still loved her. I told her I loved the woman I thought I married, not the person in front of me. She walks away sobbing “Its so hard to love you, but I do.” Sheeesh, you can’t make this stuff up!

      • Wow. It’s so hard to love YOU?!? Amazing. I don’t advocate DV, but that dizzy bitch deserves a kick square in the box. Then a head butt when she’s doubled over. What a evil bitch.

      • Her texts are so similar to the ones I received after dday that I literally got goose bumps. The hive mind is creepy. They’re like fucked up Borg.

        His texts were fresh on my mind because I just went through our text history. Fuckface has requested me to make an itemized list of the expenses that I’m claiming were dissipation, complete with corresponding (text message) evidence that he was lying about his whereabouts. No joke.

        GoodRiddens, trust that they SUCK, and that this is simply their steady state.

      • What’s weird is that although you can’t make this stuff up…they all say the same things. As I was reading this I kept having this though it that it sounded familiar…DOH!

  • Her: We aren’t seeing each other right now.

    UBT: I’m right here, in this room. With you. Right now. In an hour? Who knows. That’s still up for grabs. But right now? I’m seeing you.

    • I am not seeing him right now means that if he changes his mind and wants to start things up again ( sounds like he ended the affair ) she will entertain the idea of cheating with him again.

      Read between the lines. If she was remorseful she would promise never to see him again -but little miss wishy-washy makes no such promise.

      As the others say – her truth is that at this given moment she is NOT seeing him.

      • Or he got caught, his wife is making him stop, and once the smoke has cleared a little, he can try again.

          • The AP was busted by me. I’m pretty sure he is scared shitless waiting to see what happens next.

            • His soul isn’t in danger and calling for its other half to swoop in so they can be “2getha 4 eva” as twu wuv soulmates?! Shocker that the AP is a big flake!

      • Nobody is easier to sleep with than someone you have already slept with. Especially someone who does not care if you are involved or married to someone else!

        • Yup, Regina. Oh yup. Ask me how I know. ‘Rekindling,’ or as i see it, a form of necrophilia, fucking the dead past. Ugh.

      • No, you have to think of it literally. Like someone testifying before a grand jury and trying desperately to prevent a perjury conviction.

        I am not seeing him right now. I am only seeing you… If you define “seeing” as “seeing with my eyes.” He isn’t in the room right now. So I am not seeing him.

        See? Makes sense. Well… You know what I mean. Makes cheater sense.

        You spend enough time having these word salad grenades lobbed your way, and you can start picking them apart…

        Which is either incredibly useful. Or incredibly sad. I can never decide which.

    • Cheap version of black bags. And the sprinkler comes on. Wow. Bummer. It was a mistake.

  • The UBT is, as always, mighty!

    These two exchanges stand out:

    Me: Are you still seeing him? Her: I have no relationship to continue with him, it is all very complicated … sorry
    ***
    Me: Are you still seeing him? Her: We aren’t seeing each other right now. I don’t know what I can do or say for you.

    Hmmm…all those words, and yet a simple, declarative “no” is not among them! (Note the “right now”).

    To quote The Wire, she’s equivocating like a motherf*cker.

    She may have been dumped, but she’s definitely hiding something. She’s keeping that door (ahem!) open.

    Listen to Chump Lady. Run!

    • Uh… this must be why I was a chumpy Chump with multiple d-days! So obvious when you point it out… and then my ah-ha bell went off! My UBT is broken, where can I get a new one? ?

      • Reading here is the best way to fix your UBT, and your picker too! These cheaters are all so similar, you get good at recognizing the patterns.

    • Those qualifiers say it all. She’s not seeing him “right now”, but tomorrow is totally up for grabs. I cannot recount the number of times I heard a qualifier exactly like that. At first, I took everything X said at face value. After awhile, I learned to listen to what was really being said. Not that it mattered, every word out of his mouth was a lie. The big tell, though, is always the odd wording. She could have just said she wasn’t seeing the OM. Period. The “right now” is a huge red fag, as if he needs one. It is so apparent that the affair is far more important to her than her marriage. Run Forrest, run!

    • Maybe it is cause I am not a native English speaker.. but that “I have no relationship to continue with him” sounds like an excuse that could come out from a politician’s mouth: “I have no relationship to continue stealing your money… just hold on a minute and pass me your wallet… I am suffering!!!!!”
      I also “love” the fact that first her goal is to have an open heart conversation (respectful of course… like now, for her feelings because before respect was not important at all.. like when she was fucking someone else, for instance)… but right after… she states “honey… I do not think we are ready for that conversation”… like… “I changed my mind honey guess you are more pissed than I expected”… Is she still drinking that famous wine? And, oh boy, that ” I am trying to be honest with myself and try to start healing. Because I am obviously broken!”… Of COURSE you are broken “honey”!!!!!! Down there… you are broken down there… it is so funny how they pretend to be complicated enlightened being … when they are only little pathetic creatures…
      Emm@

    • Yes, it’s sooooo complicated….

      No, it’s not. Either you’re done and it never happens again, or you’re not.

      That’s pretty simple.
      Welcome to Chump Nation.we’ll be here when you need us.

    • She’s keeping that door (ahem!) open.

      She’s also trying to keep John’s wallet open. She’s threading the needle on how to remain married (house, car, credit cards, vacations, good-girl-image – kibbles!) and continue to fuck her stud on the side.

    • Note also the “we”. She did not say “I am not seeing him right now”. She sees herself as part of the “WE” that is the two of them.

    • My version was: seeing just a little, texting just a little, when we go to lunch it is only in a group. Nothing to work with. I DID change the locks. I DID throw his leftovers onto the sidewalk. They DID get sprinkler treatment. Wow. Bummer. NMP.

  • I totally caught that too – I’m not seeing him right now. But yeah if he’s willing to see me again then yes!

    I love how these pos f’ers dictate when a conversation in person can take place. Oh things are just too raw and angry right now boo hoo. Yeah B’tch they are and they are going to be for a long time because that’s what happens when you are a cheating pos.

    • Totally. Because, you know, it’s the chump’s fault. If the chump.was good enough, the cheating would not happen [note lack of “I” statement there], so it’s up to the chump to behave properly so it won’t happen again.

      Thank God for the UBT.

  • John, you probably feel like I do-that you’re in a bad Lifetime movie. Your wife sounds just like my husband-all the “did I say I was sorry “? ” I don’t lie anymore; I’m a good (guy) now-yeah now that your 9+ months of fucking your 19 years younger co worker is over-supposedly. I’m sorry for you, for us-i have a feeling you never thought you’d be in this sordid, horrible kind of situation either. Best to you my friend.

    • Update: She told me yesterday, “Do you really think that you are on a pedestal because you didn’t cheat?”
      I couldnt’t even dignify that with an answer, I simply said, “Wow, you really do all work from the same playbook,” and hung up. At this point it is so not healthy for me to continue to engage with her, but I find the garbage coming out of her mouth extremely hilarious.

      • or,…could have said, “Why yes, yes I do think I am on a pedestal for not cheating! I have a nosebleed from the lofty altitude! Thank you for asking.”

        • Believe it or not the OW asked me that question, She also said that people in glass houses should not throw stones. I was like WTF are talking about your the one screwing around on your husband with my husband! Stupid bitch!

          • Corollary to “You can’t reason with the disordered,” is:

            1.a. Don’t expect reason from the disordered.

        • Pedestal no, but I am still a few levels above you down in that hole you dug for yourself.

          • I said “Yes I am on a pedestal. I didn’t try to fix our marriage by fucking someone else!”
            She thought I was confused by the question, since I wasn’t giving her the answer she thought she was entitled to.

      • LOL!! I more than once heard that I “act like my shit doesn’t stink,” in reference to the fact that I have personally never chosen to repeatedly defraud my bank the way he did for two years. Apparently that makes me uppity, that not stealing thing.

      • i have not posted previously (such a grateful stalker here!) but this jumped off the screen at me… the unrepentant little AP who slept with my husband for two years actually said this to ME … “you are no better than I am…” … to which i replied, actually i am so much better than you. i have morals, and standards and respect for women and their families. i may be flawed, and if I am… my flaws are certainly not in the same vein as yours. x

        • Damn straight. Cheating is a whole other venue…. It’s not anywhere close to leaving dirty panties on the floor, not taking out the trash, and forgetting to pick up the mayonnaise!

  • CL – can we do a post on the shit flying monkeys say too? I’ve recently been subjected to some doozies that i’d love to submit.

  • Oh boy, she sounds exactly like my soon-to-be-ex-husband did in the first few months after the disclosure. I find it fascinating how unimaginative they all are, and even gender and socialization and cultural differences are erased in favor of the really dumb cheater playbook. It’s so boring can’t even write a novel or a screenplay out of it.

    • It’s amazing how many of us went through this very thing….now meant this second. And 20 minutes later they are texting the whore/whoress to meet up hiding in the bathroom. And what is crazier is that after lying, cheating, stealing from us for weeks, months and some of us years, they expect us to believe that hogwash. mine had actually looked me dead in the eye when I confronted him and asked him “Did you sleep with her”. He told me “No, she’s not even attractive to me”. I found a tape that he made of them having sex in our living room, with our baby girl in the background dated, get this—3 YEARS earlier. His response, well we weren’t having sex at the time you asked. Oh, by the way, it is now 5 years after DDay and our divorce is almost final. He acts like they are not together….they never stopped the affair have been living together since last year. Since the truth is subjective to him, I hope she is ready for the trail of lies that’s gotta unfold eventually. Good luck! I’m out!

      • I hope to hell that tape was admissible to the judge. Fry his sorry ass!!!! Your kid in the same room while daddy and white juice are FUCKING EACH OTHER???? Sick, twisted bastard!

      • My x is moving in with his whore, but she apparently told her x husband there was nothing going on between them? Why do they continue to lie when it does not matter anymore, I am divorced from his sorry ass and she is divorced from her husband.

      • It was quite simple for me to deduce she was still seeing the AP, or whoever else. The next time I saw her, I asked to look on her phone in the interest of transparency. She held it up, started scrolling fast through the texts and was like “See, nothing to hide.”
        I asked can I hold the phone and look through the content. She was like “WHY do you think I would let you do that!” I then asked if she would bring up the Kik account that she thinks I don’t know about. Crickets. I decided then not to let her know how much I truly know about her secret life after that … SMH …

        • A mutual friend told him he should hand me his phone to demonstrate his “transparency”. He, of course, had thought he had thoroughly cleaned it out. Despite the very high opinion of his genius that he has, he left quite a few items on the phone (email in the trash about how much he missed her when the poor guy was stuck going shoe shopping for his 1 and 3 year old with his horrible wife, pictures of her when they were in Paris on his business trip after he had “stopped seeing her”, Viber account with multiple unreadable messages “that never worked right”, Google maps timeline that showed he had spent the night at her house the day before coming home to be “all in on fixing things”. He looked me straight in the eyes as he “explained” every last one of these things. Apparently she was stalking him. At her house….riiiight.) They really think the credit for them getting away with it for awhile means they are brilliant, rather than giving it to the chump who was capable of loving and trusting their dumb ass. Smh. I’m very glad you can laugh a little at the ridiculousness GoodRiddens, that’s what saved my sanity! Sounds like you can see the path to truth and light, I wish you to travel it at light speed. And keep posting (if you feel up to it), the similarities between her and my wasbund really feel validating to me. So thanks for helping a fellow chump. 🙂

      • The gall of some of the cheaters. Seriously my mouth is hanging open! I’m so sorry for you. What an utter dick head he is! It makes me naseous to even imagine that. At least you know he’s really suffering because she’s not attractive to him and he’s been forced to sleep with her for at least 5 years ? SMH!

  • I concur with with WhoamInow. Just like on a dating site, separated could mean we sleep in a king size bed and we are currently separated by a few inches or she’s downstairs in the kitchen making my dinner or out of town working but it does not mean single, I’m not seeing him now is about that exact moment.

    And I also agree with CL, she got dumped and you are her safe place to land.

    Run far far far away from her but remain here for support.

    • Or separated means ‘the marriage is over in my mind’ or ‘I know my spouse doesn’t love me anymore (he/she would never leave the recycling bin the way he/she does if they loved me!), so it’s LIKE we’re sepearated’.

      • OMG I got this. “As far as I was concerned, our marriage was over”. Well it would’ve be sweet if you had relayed this to me and the kids too instead of blowing up our lives MoFo!

        • Same! Except our marriage was over apparently for years and that’s why two weeks before he fucked the whoremat we were on a trip for our tenth anniversary. Because when a marriage is over you still have sex and tell that person you love them everyday and make them special treats and text them all day long about how much you care and you kiss them daily and all that stuff. Clearly a dead marriage. ?☠️ And it was SO dead he still had to hide her.

        • Yeah mine said that too, but it funny how the marriage was not actually over until Schmoopy got involved.

  • “Me: Are you still seeing him? Her: I have no relationship to continue with him, it is all very complicated … sorry. This is the biggest regret of my life. I’m so sorry I hurt you.”

    Um, but are you still seeing him? That has a Yes or No answer.

    • No kidding!

      “Me: Are you still seeing him?
      Her: “it’s complicated…”

      Uh, ain’t that complicated, bitch! Either you’re still seeing him or you’re not.

  • Her: We aren’t seeing each other right now.
    Bwahahaha That’s just like when my STBX said ” That’s not the plan” when I asked him if he and the OW were going to get back together (she was one of his exes).
    REALLY????

    • When I asked my XP if he was seeing someone I got the answer “I see lots of people” cue blank look!

  • John, NO CONTACT and file. If you can.

    At the very least, no contact.

    It’s the path to the truth and the light.

    You can see why.

  • What is it with these people and the “Im broken” or “Im lost” BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    DONT fall for it John!!! As a Chump I know from experience it pulls at our heartstrings and we want to help them “heal” or “find” themselves……. except when we do figure it out what they are really “healing” is Viagra Hard on and “finding” themselves in someone else’s pants…
    Sorry to be so blunt but I’m so SICK AND TIRED of their “woe is me” bull…..
    I fell for it after the 1st Dday back in 1993 but there was no CL and CN at that time for support and proof of the cheater universal language and so I thought he was telling the truth (Yep, mega chump here!) but the Dday in 2015……. that BS wasn’t going to fly anymore… BOOM
    took off my rings and filed the next day…I was DONE..
    Good luck John along with all the rest of us Chumps… there is strength in numbers. THANK YOU ALL for being my strength on the days I start to falter!!! YOU ALL ROCK!.

  • Just run! Seriously… There is nothing more to say! Like this can be defined like a classic cheater’s attitude… never a “no” , only “me- me – me” (like… do you really think a give a shit if you are sorry or if you feel sad… of if you love me? You know what I give a shit about? Sdt test… and fair divorce agreement… cause you know what sucks? It sucks than I am the one that have to go through all this shit! It sucks big time!). Why with cheaters is always like this? Like… they destroy your heart, throw napalm on your confidence and on your entire world… and when you confront them… the only things that come to their mind is how to put THEIR feelings first. You are second, as you have always been. You are the plan B… the one that their mythical true self really loves (mine cheater during our last conversation “The day I’ll die I will think only about you”… yeah… the day you die… cause thinking about ME now that you are alive is waaaaaaaaay too hard). Better be alone than in a relationship like this. They can go dancing the macarena naked in downtown balancing a cauliflower on their heads for what I care. Just get out of my life and never come back… And take all that stinky fake regret with you… Love you all Chumps, and thanks to the UBT cause it always makes my day!
    Emm@

  • My God! Half of these lines could have come straight from my ex-wife’s emails to me during her affair.

    Straight up manipulation. Nothing genuinely remorseful.

    This. Bitch. Sucks.

  • A quote came to me as I read this post.

    “It’s hard to dance with the devil on your back.”
    Sydney Carter.

    That’s what we do here, shed devils and start to dance to our own tune again.

  • Oh, and I love the “we aren’t seeing one another right now.”

    What about tonight? Tomorrow? Next week?

    I can’t count the number of times my ex wife said the affair was over, and the story would collapse with even a modicum of follow-up on my part.

  • There are two reasons to lie, and omitting “details” when you have been asked about them is lying: (a) to avoid consequences (duh), and (b) POWER. When a person lies, they keep relevant information from their victim, thereby causing said victim to take a different path than he or she would have. Thus, the liar can actually *alter* the life of the victim AND keep them begging the liar for more information.

    Peristent lying? You’ve got nothing to work with (and I would argue that the infidelity is such a huge lie in and of itself, only flight is recommended).

    I served my X the night he refused to provide me with gradwhore’s first name. I had already filed, and it was his last chance to illustrate the ‘transparency’ recommended during our one and only MC session. I knew he would never be transparent; it was a test, he failed and I handed him the petition and told him we were done. What shocked me was the cold-heartedness with which he refused to tell me her name, even telling me a mutual friend had told me to withhold the information from him. He saw my obvious pain and didn’t.care.didn’t.care. It was a real eye-opener into disorder and lack of empathy.

    He STILL refused to file the paperwork, hoping I’d calm down, until I texted him 2 days later, “I now virulently hate you. Please file the papers so that you may make a rapid, complete, and seamless exit from my life.”

    • Tempest, YES!

      “You Don’t Need the Specifics” could be the title of our marriage story. He was all about the half-truths, doling out partial information as he saw fit for me to know, and omitting key details. Not just about his secret life, but everything else, too. It kept me guessing, second guessing and off balance for 20 years. It was excruciating.

      X loved him a good, juicy secret = the snake loved control = sick bastard.

      I am FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

        • “I thought what you didn’t know couldn’t hurt you”. My stbx thought that he could do whatever he wanted as long as I didn’t find out. It’s the finding out that hurts don’t you know… Not the utter disrespect and shitty way he treated me while leading a double life. Where do these people come from!

          • From Satan’s asshole? ????

            I heard the same thing. And on top of it he did it FOR ME! Be sure if he just got to fuck the whoremat that would “make him happy” and then I would “benefit” from him “being nice” to me! See! It was self sacrifice! He HAD to do it. FOR me!!!!!!! ??????? I really am like the least grateful wife ever.

    • Tempest, can I borrow your two sentences when I file? The cheater (arrived in Canada 3 days ago and staying with his mom) invited my mom (who is also visiting and staying with me) for lunch today. There has always been great mutual liking and respect between the cheater and my Mom although they only saw each other once every 2-3 years. He tried to convince her to influence me to keep things as they have been in the past 6 years: live in two different countries, see each other twice a year and the rest of the time he eats cake. He told her that he thought I was not very convinced in our divorce because I cried when we told our son a couple of months ago. So since I cried, then I did not want it – cheater’s logic. My mom handled it excellently. She told him that her daughter is a very strong woman and she always made the right decisions and she was convinced this one was the right one as well. She said that I had tried all these years to build a family while he was never interested in that. He did not deny. He actually told her proudly that he can’t do anything about it, it’s all these women that fly around him as bees over honey. He does not do anything to attract them. “YOU ACCEPT IT”, my mother said. And it’s unacceptable for my daughter. So this decision is the right one. I was so proud of my mom when she came home. She handled it in a very polite and diplomatic way. I don’t think he deserves any of this, but it’s how she is.

      Oh,and yesterday he bragged to me that our son’s classmate said she thought he was a scientist! He felt so flattered! Einstein! His target age group is falling to below 10 now…I did not react. Even cool, bummer, wow is too eloquent style of communication with him. I only respond to direct questions pertaining to our son. Grey grey rock.

      • Longtimechump–Your mom ROCKS!!

        As for your stbx (can’t capitalize him): “Women just flock to me like bees! They give me oral sex and I can’t stop them!” Oy vay.

        (feel free to borrow anything from me if it helps to bludgeon a cheater, metaphorically speaking, of course ; ).

  • Right this minute he is playing nice with his wife. He is going to gaslight the shit out of this and then get a burner phone. I was semi-dumped. He has to be really good for a few months but we might get together after this “comlicated” situation settles down. By the way, if you see a new phone is is not mine, I have never seen it before, but don’t touch it. In the meantime I am going to be really nice to you in case he bails permanently. I am a good person really. It is, you know, just complicated.

    • Nail, meet my friend head of hammer.

      Now, any fellow chumps still in this conversation–here’s the thing that has been bothering me all day about this.

      Why do they equivocate? Why do they sneak in those verbal equivalents of crossing their fingers behind their backs? (and what a vocabulary of weasel words we have collected on Chump Nation today! These stories are amazing). But it’s weird. They’ve lied to us convincingly before, so why not a few more bold ones now? Instead, they think up all these verbal acrobatics.

      Of course, they know they are lying. The only way I can work it out is that they want to still think of themselves as good and decent. On some future Dday, or in court, they’ll throw out a “At least I never lied to you…about anything important!” And they will actually believe it.

      Peace out, Chump Nation!

      • They love the half-truths, the three-quarter truths, the 99.9% truths (ahem, these all still = lies). It makes them feel powerful to withhold information. They love to feel in control of the storyline, of the situation, of the chump. They get off on it. They’re laughing at you while they do it.

        For the short period of time during which I listened to the bullshit, but realized it was all bullshit, I would just think his motto was: Why tell the truth when a lie will do?

  • John, this shit is confusing. I always thought I would take prompt and decisive action if I was cheated on. In reality, dealing with someone I trusted, where I was used to explaining away red flags and letting him gaslight me, it was excruciatingly difficult to get clarity. Especially when the cheater is selling the nobility/sincerity/remorse of their reaction so hard.

    I recommend asking yourself what relation these exchanges have with any fantasy you had of real, heartfelt remorse and rebuilding. I’m betting there isn’t much similarity. If there isn’t, the problem isn’t that you had an unrealistic fantasy. It’s that you’re being sold a new set of lies in the place of true remorse.

    No one should be anyone else’s Plan B. You deserve so much more.

  • ‘Your pain excites me’ stands out to me, they get off on it thats why eventually grey rock is good as they can’t get a reaction just facts.
    I asked questions and these wingnuts just evade and go in circles as speaking the truth undermines their own bullshit that they believe themselves, the lies they told themselves in order to cheat on you.
    The sleeping in the martial bed stuff kills me im not sure it happened but not going to ask the wingnut because he going to deny it but its just a special kind of fucked up. Get some space and make a desicision don’t torture yourself with the questions. We all agree she sounds like an opportunistic bitch with no regard for you, which none of them have anyways otherwise they wouldn’t be whoring.

      • I’ll join you in a bottle of ?

        I totally agree with the lying thing. Once they get on the Carousel of Insanity there is no getting off. The cheater has committed to the lie. Once the lie is said there is NO GOING BACK. The lie is now “truth” and “good people” don’t lie. And the cheater is “a good person” it’s all impression management even in their own warped minds! The Carousel of Insanity is a literal trap for both the cheater and the chump.

        The poor chump becomes Mulder. The truth is out there! I want to believe! ? Because how can life and the world and right and wrong and your entire existence make ANY sense, if someone you LOVE, (with all the goodness and purity and trust the chump has) can treat you that way?! NOTHING makes sense when your WORLD is obliterated by the person you entrusted it to. Poor chump! You knew that your world was that person’s world too (ha. ha. ha.) and then they BLEW. IT. UP?! Nope. Not possible. And the cheater agrees. The cheater is a “good person”! (They tell themselves that ALL THE TIME.) And “good people” don’t shit all over the undeserving. Therefore the lie becomes the “truth” and the truth dies. The chump is forever chasing the answers they know exist and the cheater is covering their own ass with lies they HAVE to believe, otherwise they would just spontaneously combust into a giant fireball of ??. It’s all so twisted!

  • And once again Chump Lady has me laughing my ass off:

    “John, nothing to work with here. Dude. Run (I think you”ll see Ben from yesterday up ahead of you)”

    I just choked on my coffee.

    Sorry to find you here John in all seriousness run like the wind and never look back.

  • Oh, the pain of recognition! At the time I was still getting these things, I really suspected that nobody else on earth could possibly ever write such mind bendingly hurtful crap. It’s a relief to understand that this is absolutely the cheater script.

    Right up until about two weeks ago, my cheater boy was still attempting the “our relationship is on hold” theme. Pack of lies, of course. There was also an awful lot of “I need to figure out what love really is so I can build on a firm foundation moving forward” type junk.

    I guess fucking the slut right along helped just, um, loads with that true love, firm foundation deal. Yuppers. ?

  • Chumps beware of the other possible meaning behind “I have no relationship to continue with him/her” and /or “I’m not seeing him right now”.
    It doesn’t always mean “I got dumped/hello Plan B.”
    It can also mean: “I got found out. What I REALLY want is a divorce. But I’m going to fool you into thinking that I want to reconcile so that I can:
    (A) get my adultery removed from consideration in said future divorce, therefore weakening your case/strengthen my position
    (B) set myself up for full custody of the kids
    (C) buy myself time to get my strategy down
    (D) get back in the house so I can establish it as my residence and lay claim to it in divorce
    (E) have complete access to our finances and financial records to better position myself to drain them now or take them from you in divorce.
    (F) give my affair partner time to divorce his/her spouse and get our new life set up before I leave
    (G) drive you out of your fucking mind to the point where YOU eventually leave ME and give me what I want in settlement just to get it over. (or even better, commit suicide and leave me the life insurance.)
    (H) most likely: ALL of the above
    I have seen two cases where the cheating spouse intentionally and strategically carried out reconciliation for multiple reasons listed above. In both cases the cheaters achieved most of their goals. Chumps, beware!

      • Yes exactly. Mine talked me into reconciliation and then proceeded to gaslight and abuse me( every possible way) for 4 years while stealing half of our life savings. It happens a lot more than you think, they are completely and truly evil.

    • Yes! thank you Miss Delta girl for providing this warning. I’ve seen this happen before too. It’s scary how manipulative these slimey creatures are, expecially when they have their secret agendas planned out.

      • Yep, it was amazing that he couldn’t plan any real, responsible life goals or even the basics of keeping a job and keeping a household running, but he sure could make perfect plans to deceive, cheat, and plan to escape to be with Schmoopie!!!

        • That’s because he had you to do the shit he didn’t want to deal with, ie real life and responsibility! But schmoopie was fun(!) so he could figure out how to be with her easily. What an ass! Hopefully she’s just as shitty at life as he is and they go down in flames. Then you can show up with a bag of marshmallows to toast to your new life without him ???

    • There is a nuance to (G), as KK so aptly demonstrated to me . . .

      (G) drive you out of your fucking mind to the point where YOU eventually leave ME, so I can forever position YOU as the one who ended the marriage and I can forever bask in the glow of “well, I was willing to try and find a way to work things out, but YOU held on to your anger too tightly to find a way to move forward . . .”

      • A long-suffering chump friend of mine had this happen. Her extreme narc ex escalated his outrageous behaviour to the point that he was openly having an affair when she was pregnant, including having his OW (a former uni girlfriend) over to their dinner parties, where she would try to take over being the hostess from my friend. When she said she couldn’t tolerate it any longer, he whined to everyone that she had kicked him out. Apparently we were so unsophisticated, not letting these studs have their “mistresses”.

      • Ux. This exactly!! Must be a play out of the handbook on how to shift blame. x totally thinks he is the victim here

    • OMG
      Even though I have now been no contact for 2 years, your post just hit a nerve and yes I do think that was what he was doing whilst pretending to rebuild the marriage.
      I can tick everything on your list
      The light bulb has just been switched on in floodlight mode
      OMG how did I not see it

      Thank you once more chump nation
      I have a pit bull lawyer and will totally go for the financial jugular

    • Miss Delta Girl, you are absolutely right about this! My Ex was able to collect tons of paperwork, etc. while in fake reconciliation. It also gave Schmoopie the chance to set up thier beach condo and make her plans! I was sooo duped! Luckily he couldn’t sustain no contact with her for longer than nine days at a time and I finally wised up and got truly pissed!

  • Not seeing him right now, stood out to me as if it was written in red ink.
    It seems it appeared to other chumps the same way.

  • I love “It’s complicated.” It isn’t complicated at all. She likes strange penis in her vagina and if he asks her again she will allow it again! Cheaters think they are soooooo deep. Everything in their lives is complicated–except it’s not they are like three year olds. You can bet they are doing whatever they want to get whatever they want RIGHT NOW. Nothing could be simpler actually.

  • Welp, As the song lyrics say, “Long may she run” -and it’s not referring to her pantyhose.
    Anytime you’re getting Assault and Nattery by text, pay attention to how many emotive words they can pack into one simple declarative sentence or just a very few exchanges: “Horrible!” “Devastating!” Add a few more qualifiers like “Raw!” And “Angry!”
    Once again, it’s allll about the Cheater and their damn Emotions Gone Wild. Even though it sounds like she’s decided to be the arbiter of your feelings and helpfully appears to identify them for you, not really: These are her feelings projected on you like a wide screen Theater of the Absurd. I found the whole “and then I told my mommy and she was all “meh” because she knows I learned from a pro-her” particularly wtf?!
    Anyone who shares stuff this personal with their mommy is still in 6th grade.

    I do hope you’ve put a down payment on the rest of your life and filed.
    Maybe you can have the marriage annulled because you ended up with a child bride instead of an the adult that was promised.

    • I just found out that my STBX told his 22 year old daughter (my stepdaughter) about his girlfriends and made her keep it secret from me. What kind of sick fuck does that. Ughh.

      • Even though it was a rhetorical question, yep “sick fuck” is the correct answer!
        His daughter now wishes she had a baseball bat to “correct” him as soon as his mouth opens-every time it does, out flies another stripper’s thong.

  • I had friends come and supervise his exit and hand back of the keys, he was out of there within 2 hours of me seeing ‘the photos of him and his whore’
    Thank fuck as I think I may have gone medievil on his ass and he would try and weddle me around, managed a few slaps across the back of his head, not proud of it.
    Think of what you want not wasting time trying to understand the why!
    Over and out in my books total deal breaker.

    • LadyB, hahahahaha….I’m sorry, “managed a few slaps across the back of the head,” just made me laugh out loud. I’m picturing him doing the “bob and weave!”

  • GAH, it always circles back to their pain “I am trying to be honest with myself and try to start healing. Because I am obviously broken!” Feel sorry for me! Run. Jedi Hugs!

    • Why is it the only part that always remains “unbroken”/in full working order is their genitals?

      They could do a swan dive into the deep end of an empty swimming pool/pogo stick off the high diving board and leave the Trauma docs marveling over yet another Medical Mystery: “So, guess what wasn’t broken? Heh heh..”

      Goodgawd, they have Zombie Reproductive Organs.

  • “I have no relationship to continue with him, it is all very complicated …” Most of CN caught this one early as it is your wife’s form of “I would have left you for him because I thought he loved me, but he never wanted a formal relationship with a whore, just a side piece……but maybe when he wants a piece of ass again, he’ll call me, and I’ll come running.”

    Most of us with wives that pulled this crap have seen this statement in some form or another as, and this is generalizing and it seems to be prevalent in any infidelity forum I’ve been on, but the cheating wives seem to think their OM “loves” them as much as they love the OM. More often than not though, the OM is just looking for a piece of ass and will tell the wife whatever she wants to hear to get her in bed. My ex-wife got strung along in much the same fashion by her OM. But when Dday came and she was ready to divorce me, the OM suddenly was “too stressed out” to leave his wife for her and went running back to his wife. Then suddenly, life with me and the kids wasn’t all that bad after all, and so she stuck around until I finally filed on her ass.

    The stories are all the same, all too predictable. Just know that regardless of what they’ve done, who they’ve hurt, or how shitty their actions have been, these people have only one person’s best interests in mind at all times — their own. That’s it.

    So if you can help them, they’ll keep you around, but if you can’t, then you’re expendable (at least until you once again have something useful to offer – time, attention, sympathy, money, etc.). Just get rid of them and move on.

    • Sometimes it isn’t just a side piece the AP wants. My ex’s AP dumped her when they found out the gravy train (money from me) wasn’t going to show up for the two that were so much in love. She actually was in “love” with a 56 year old “DJ” who worked at Home Depot to support himself. Go ahead and laugh at that, as my lawyer did when he found out who her AP was. When ex realized the money wasn’t coming in the divorce, she tried to get me to move out of the house. Did not happen. As my lawyer told me: “she wants the life she had before, just without you in it”.

      • Khris, my wife was the same way. The OM was going to move in and she thought she was going to get our house, all the furniture, and that I was just going move out and pay her half my paycheck each month so that she……..errrrrr, I mean “the kids”…….could live there and still have plenty of money left over to live her “authentic life” (i.e., get some botox and buy more yoga pants). Then I showed her what it actually costs to live in our house (and what it actually costs to live on your own anywhere) and that she wasn’t legally entitled to all of this support she was imagining.

        And then reality set in. And then it was my fault she wasn’t getting more out of the divorce. And it’s my fault her lifestyle was changing. And it’s my fault she can’t go on all those trips she was planning post-divorce and that now she can’t belong to multiple gyms at the same time anymore. The problem is, it’ll also be my fault a couple of years from now when she runs out of money and runs up her credit card debt. And so guess who she’ll come running back to? And my chump ass will probably feel sorry for her……again.

        • Blindside, please tell me your last comment was tongue in cheek. Please tell me you won’t take that parasite back!

          • Oh it was Attie, lol. Just some self-depreciating humor. I’d rather have somebody slam my hand in a car door 1000 times than be in a “relationship” with her again.

            • Blindside, Just be careful. My divorce became final in June last year. Last month, I received a letter from her attorney saying how I needed to start paying half her rent. Keep in mind, this was not in the decree, but her lawyer went on to say it was voluntary and for the “sake of the children”, as my child support is not enough. I really read like a demand for payment letter.

              My lawyer told me “do not pay a dime” as he thought they were trying to establish a basis for something called lifestyle support. Apparently the end game was to get me to voluntarily pay (since the divorce was final) and then go to court to get it formalized and I could keep paying half her rent. Needless to say, that is not happening.

      • Same here on x being dumped because neither of their giant egos realized that the money came from me. They both wanted my life without me in it. Sucked that I couldn’t accommodate them.

  • Yeah. Mine pulled his BS healing crap last night. Said transparency is his next step in HIS I highlighted that he’s again focusing on himself. And again using tactics to stall for time.

  • In other words:

    Honey you know I’m sorry, but you gave me no choice but to threaten to change the locks on you.
    Please eat something, I worry that you can’t think straight without eating or I’ll change the locks.

    My own Parents didn’t ask who I was screwing, why would it matter to you who it is, you’re being unreasonable and until you stop demanding respect we can not carry a rational conversation.

    I can read books, I can read books that give me permission to forgive myself. I’m researching infidelity, that’s how much I care about hurting you. I’m busy reading, busy stalling you, busy deleting all trace of my cheating on my phone and computer. I will inform you when we can talk, until then Shut Up and take care of yourself…you know I worry about your health,…see how nice I am and how mean you are.

    I am telling you I’m broken….that should make you pity me….it’s me that’s broken and all you can do is demand the truth…how dare you treat a broken person like myself without concern about how broken I am and pressure a broken person such as myself with you insistant questions.

    Did I mention I’m broken….realise that it’s about my brokenness and not until you recognize I’m the victim we can not have a mature conversation.

    Meeeeeeeee…..Meeeeee…..Meeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • Great job illustrating how it is to be in a relationship with a Cheater. Nothing they say or do makes sense. And that evasive merry go round argument is par for the course. Been there, John, and there is nothing to save. You are the only one fully invested. Your wife, not so much. She will always be absent and actively sabatoging your marriage. She will always have an excuse for behaving badly. Actions define us, they are our legacy. That “not now” is the truth. Show her your worth and walk.

  • Reminds me of something I read recently. The person wrote that their heart and their mind were at odds. When their cheater said or did things that triggered questions or doubt- the way they wanted to ‘feel’ took over the heads alarm bells to put them back where they wanted to be with the person they loved.

    I realized I did this a lot. His word salad was sketchy. His explanations always vague and dismissive. But in order for me to keep on ‘feeling’ the love and goodness- my head had to dismiss my own feelings. I’d buy all that fake sincerity just to ‘feel’ better. Deep down I argued with myself, obsessessing on missing information which logical clear minded me needed. He was the most emotional to me when he’d fuck up.

    Like the Sahara desert, I’d been waiting for that connection with him. His emotional side. I’d get Deep love poems of woe and how I was his angel and he couldn’t lose me. I’d have rather believe that – then the truth of him fucking fans of his in the back of my car at lunch and then kissing me with that mouth.

    Like a puzzle, my mind would keep notifying me that prices were missing. I’d then betray my logic and justified that he was ‘sincere’ because I wanted it to be so. I needed it to be so. These texts remind me of so many occasions where he said things that were not good enough or never matched up to actions of sorry. The actions of sorry never followed.

    But when it was left to me and my chumpy self- I’d take those tiny nibbles and turn them into a enough. I wanted to ‘feel’ he was sorry, so I’d make excuses that he was damaged and I’d help him and we’d be ok.

    I appricate the ubt for reminding me that words for the disordered are just that. Actions are the things they lack the most. Except for when it’s lying, double lives, and fucking others- then their ‘action’ ready.

    • Chumptothe9thdegree – I’m right there with you.

      I often thought “that is not right” or “if that is true, then that has to mean…” Then he would say something else to distract me or to shower me with love words or affection. Since I was starving for that, I accepted it and put my thoughts aside. I was desperate to save my marriage and keep my family intact. I couldn’t fathom how evil he really was. Words are just words meant to distract. ONLY pay attention to their choices and actions. That is what you need to believe.

      • I’d never thought about how I felt like I was “starving” for connection. It’s true that any tiny glimpse of the connection I craved was taken as a sign that he still loved me. My head and my heart were always at war. Or really it was my head and my gut. My gut was screaming that things weren’t right, but I kept overriding those feelings for the comforting words and assurances I got from him.

        • For instance, my ex was always traveling for business with his coworker. I was left for weeks at a time with very little support or contact with him. Once he called and said “I love you” before he was leaving for another trip. I answered, “Do you REALLY?” That day I found a bouquet of flowers in the seat of my car and thought how he must love me to go to all that trouble. I remember feeling relieved. Now I know it was just a gesture to shut me up for awhile so he could carry on with his coworker.

          • Lyn,
            Sad but true. They knew just what to do to cover up the lies. And we accepted it.

            That is the whole reason I am still in counseling. I want to make sure that I do not make these mistakes again…with friends, family, co-workers, or possible future romantic interests (if I ever get there). I need to be able to trust ME.

          • They get the flowers from the florist delivered with a romantic note, we get the street corner kind on a day they are feeling guilty or are on their way home from a tryst.

      • Cognitive Dissonance is the term for being told one thing is the truth when you can feel the truth is something else. So painful when you want to believe because you think this person told you the truth before. In my experience, this is what made the pain so deep-the ongoing confusion. Your mind & heart want and need to make sense of things for your sanity. You not having your sanity is a power position for them.

        • Mine told me he could never cheat on me because he would never be able to keep up the lie because he just wasn’t that devious. He may even have thought it was true at the time he said it. This line kept me in the dark all the way to DDay when, in retrospect, it was so glaringly obvious he was cheating on me. Our 16 year old daughter even asked me “do you think Daddy might be cheating on you” and I replied “no he wouldn’t be that devious”. I should have listed to her.

          She got confirmation of the affair just this last weekend when I totally lost my cool and she overheard (another story). As soon as she was told that yes Dad had been unfaithful she knew immediately who it was. Smart girl. Good intuition. I wish I had some.

  • In the begining my STBX said he wasn’t seeing his f***buddy anymore, and wanted to see if the marriage could be repaired…he screwed her the night before our first counseling session! Things got real ugly for him when he told me they were just friends…and I’m Humpty Dumpty! RUN!!! Once a cheater, always a cheater!!!!

  • “Your pain excites me.”

    This makes me weep because it is so true of my X. He fed off of my pain. This is why NO CONTACT is so important.

    • IcanseetheMehcoming, that really disturbs me, too. I could see that my XH enjoyed my pain. The times I ending up crying, he never once tried to comfort me in any way. He just sat there silent, stone-faced, like he had no care that I was in pain. I now know that he was enjoying it because he would incite all of the incidents for his own amusement. These people have no empathy, no souls…

      • Totally, read, listen to v mail so you can gleen their plan, which is usually going in circles chasing their tale like a stupid dog! file and do not reply unless necessary and if you do with as little info as possible, its working for me and sending him cra cra.
        Only email and landphone, mobile social media blocked or dont even go there and no face to face well for me not close, drop kids and drive off,

  • This is my story 🙂 The UBT as usual, did not fail. After finding out about the affair(s), I immediately moved out and spent less than 24 hrs. groveling before I lawyered up. Thanks to finding this website, and reading some of the most horrifying stories about humanity ever, I have accepted that I am now part of the club nobody wants to join. Some days fore me are meh, some days are rage, others are sad, but I am proud to say continuing this toxic relationship is something I do not see as an option.
    I am as NC as possible, but I make the mistake of seeking solace from her, waiting for that unicorn.. I really want just my old life back. But that life was a lie.
    Rant over! Thanks for everything you do CN!

    • Glad to hear you filed and are working on NC. Better days are coming. The longer you are free of their mindfuck, the more chances you have for healing

    • GoodRiddensRubbish–Yeah, you! This is an awful ride, to be sure, but it does end with a life of integrity (which is more than most of us lived during our marriage). Best wishes to you on the settlement.

    • Just remember, the relationship may be a “lie”… but you were real. YOU. WERE. REAL. And, you are a person who deserves a RECIPROCAL relationship. Stop going back to her… she fired you from the job of caring about her.

      Keep coming back here daily… use the forums… stay connected to your future. It is going to be amazing.

  • “I have no relationship to continue with him, it is all very complicated … sorry.”

    John, it’s NOT that complicated. She’s a liar and a cheater. When she got drunk she was ready to change the locks and boot your ass. Take the steps to protect yourself financially. By the way, she fired you from the job. She said…..can be replaced with your needs John. Discuss nothing with her and let her attorney speak to yours. Expect her to rage and threaten. Do not move out of your home.

    • Yep. And the only way she’s not seeing him is if she was struck blind just after you busted her. She’s currently advertising her skills in Braille given her imPECKERable credentials.

      What’s she really wants you to know in the meeeee-an time is her Pecker Picker is broken so please stand by while she downloads a Crazy Bitch Patch of Hopium to buy her some time to file before you. Oh, and procure a TRO “Eviction Notice.”

      *John, please make sure you get to the phone first just like you get to the lawyer first, OK?*

      Seriously, imma old retired widow broad and in ancient times, my professional commitments included spending a day a week at the local jail and an evening a week at a local prison-for decades. After the VAWA in ’93 I started seeing guys just like you: Nice guys, beat to crap and now doing the handcuff hand signals and the shackle-footed shuffle. I’d immediately assess as “bar fight” just before they opened their mouth-and guess what Shmoopie the Syphlitic “Quality Control POSheet-Er” did? Beat him half to death just before she beat him to the phone and screamed “DV!” aka, “Destroy Viciously!” When I’d ask WHY they did not immediately file Assualt charges they’d look at me like *I* was the one who lost their mind and say, “Well, I didn’t want to see the mother of my child(ren) go to jail!” (I hear there’s still an imprint of my face on the top of the bolted to the floor metal table top.)

      So, he sits in jail unaware he should have stashed some discretionary $$$ for bail. He then looses his job-because he can not bi-locate. He then looses his home. He then looses his vehicle to get to any job. And if kids are involved, he’s hit with child support based his gross income before the Schmopie Shit Storm erupted. But hey, he’s a good guy and just wanted “to give her another chance,” believing “she’d never do anything” that perfidious even though she lied about the affairs and the kids need a HoMugger.

      And that exchange sir? It’s the Turner Classic Movie of “Crazy-Bitches-R-Us.”

      • Wow, since you put it like that!!! My ex was violent (frequently) and I always pushed it down and down because he would “never go all the way”. But you know, at the end I think he was capable of it. That’s a very salutary story.

  • The one that jumped out at me is ‘what is my incentive to lie?’ I got that whole ‘ I have no reason to lie anymore’ bs, too.

    UBT: I’ll lie when I have an incentive, but right now I gain more from telling (some of ) the truth, so obv. that’s what I’m doing! Besides, I look really amazing being open and laying my soul bare (except for those four other times, but you’ll never find out, so I have no incentive to tell you THAT truth), so Trust Me!’

  • The next time she says, “I’m sorry!”, make sure to ask her, “Just exactly WHAT are you sorry for?! Are you sorry for leaving the cat outside? Are you sorry for not putting the clothes in the dryer? Are you sorry for not buying the milk? I need to know EXACTLY WHAT you’re sorry about!” And if she comes back with “I’m sorry for EVERYTHING!” Tell her, “That’s not good enough. I need specifics.” Let her grovel (as much as she will) and then dump her butt. You deserve better!

    • “And if she comes back with ‘I’m sorry for EVERYTHING!’ Tell her, ‘That’s not good enough. I need specifics.’ ”

      YES YES YES YES YES

      This approach works with, “I’m a good person who made a terrible mistake.” Or, as KK said several times while unsuccessfully trying to get me to break grey rock, “One mistake does not a person make.”

      Had I broken and actually engaged with the statement, I would have asked, “What specifically is the one single mistake you’re referring to?”

      I would have been met with, “It’s not productive to back into the past, we need to move forward…” but in my fantasies I would say, “No, tell me — which of the following is the one single mistake you’re referring to? Was it . . .:”

      – Having unprotected sex with the Carrot Singer on the day you first met him in the public bathroom of the hotel across the street from your office?
      – Having sex again with the Carrot Singer the next day in our minivan in the public parking garage near your office building?
      – Staying home from work to have sex with the Carrot Singer in our home, in our bed, the day after celebrating our 15th wedding anniversary?
      – Having sex with the Carrot Singer in our home, in our bed, 2 weeks later while I was in Europe on business?
      – Begging out of a family holiday event so you could have sex with the Carrot Singer at HIS house while his wife and child were away?
      – Telling the Carrot Singer that I gave you a black eye, which you actually got from a different sex partner?
      – Arranging to have sex with the Carrot Singer again on the day that I confronted both of you?

      OR . . . is the one, single mistake, which you’re so sorry for, just simply getting caught?”

  • There’s always am impenetrable wall when it comes to details. They keep jars with little notes. Each one with a different reason why we chumps don’t get to know-
    You’re too angry
    The kids
    It’s none of your business
    I don’t remember
    ‘Silence’
    It’s endless really, but whatever. Whatever does come streaming out of cheater’s mouth is usually just complete horse shit anyway.

    • ‘Scorned’ was a fave word of his to me.
      And too many times to count ‘If you wanna walk, walk’ because I was persisting for the truth to come from him. The truth, which I know NOW they are incapable of telling.

      He seemed to be king of never coming out with the truth to any of the questions I ever asked. Instead…I’m stressing him out, he needs more time, I never quit, I’m trying to piss him off and on and on.
      Truth, nope never did happen.
      A true sociopath narcissist.

      • Jeez. Louise! There must be a university out there for these turds to learn these tricks because they’re all the same.
        Deny, deflect, blame shift. Wash, rinse, repeat.
        We’re the crazies for not wanting to feel crazy… Which is what we feel when the deception continues after it has been discovered.

  • Wow. This one really hit home with me. My STBX was a master at this type of bullshit. He would answer with just a shred a truth that was intended to mislead me completely. Just like “I am not seeing him right now” could be truth but mean a whole lot of things. Maybe AP is on vacation this week? However, the intent of that statement is purely meant to lead the spouse to believe that the affair is over when that is most likely not the case or she would have stated that clearly and definitively.

    So many of this woman’s lines are pretty much the same as I got. I made incorrect assumptions about them during wreckonciliation. I spackled and ignored that gnawing in my gut. Second time around, I wrote them down and started listing all the holes in the statement and then either I dug deeper or asked a more specific question that he could not answer with a vague truth.

    Now, I don’t need to ask or dig. I just assume that it is the worst possible assumption I could make from his statement. I just trust he sucks.

    John, your wife is not willing or capable of honesty. She has been playing this game for too long to know any different. She is not willing to truly own her shit or look at what is wrong with her. She is just spouting words like love and broken to get you to pick me dance. She will not change and she will lie through counseling and reconciliation and then just do it again. Only next time will be worse…because if you take her back she will know that she can get away with bullshiting you.

  • The kicker for me was in MC, C supported Ex’s refusal to reveal the details. I filed. Intention to reconcile or continue to lie becomes fairly obvious. Hiding is continuing to perform the activity of cheating, lying.

    Kicked him to the curb.

    • The cheater never reveals the truth unless you have proof of it & then it’s still “who are you going to believe-me or your lying eyes?”
      (Trust me, I saw it first hand when I caught the ex at the hooker (cough) massage joint.)
      It’s their take on a power play-they feel superior to you because they know they are withholding something you want AND it’s also the defiant “you are not the boss of me/you can’t tell me what to do” as in disclose all the crap on the side they have been doing.
      AND, if by chance they do decide to talk, you will be tortured by “trickle truth” and lies while they take their shit further underground.

      Trust that they suck is the BEST motto……..because all of these cheaters do! They suck like Hoovers!
      Reconcile the fact that you will never know everything they did behind your back & use that line from Frozen….Let it go!

      I know the pain/fear seems insurmountable at first, but it will be SO.MUCH.BETTER without the cheater in time. Everyone here at CL/CN is living proof.

  • I think shes still lying. When he asks her if shes still seeing the lover, she does not give a simple answer, like “no”. She dances around it, saying there is no relationship to continue right now. Then she keeps talking, distancing herself from the question
    Then balks at a polygraph! Something is up. She is still lying.

  • Its interesting. At the moment Im going through crap having dscovered a heavy EA affair from quite a long time ago, lyrics, songs, recordings, etc (husband is a musician) all relating to someone else whilst we were married and who was our assistant. She was 21, he was 42 at the time. Its all very emotional stuff but I am told it was “all in his head” an emotional escape when life was a bit crap. From the other side I am going to be totally honest, I had an affair in my 1st marriage for 6 weeks. I was quite young, and in my case I really really “wanted out” . The affair was over long before I left but it did show me that not all guys were the same. My ex husband didnt even seem that bothered to be honest. Still carried on the same, never mentioned it apart from the very occasional jibe and asked me not to mention it either. Having now seen the emotional turmoil it causes, I am thoroughly ashamed of myself. I cant actually say at any point though I felt I was “broken” I did it because it felt good at the time , someone else gave me attention when Iwas getting zero and seemed interested in me,(and not just for sex) when my husband did not (apart from sex) . I dont think these people think they are “broken” , funny though that so many seem to suddenly think that when caught.

  • CL’s UBT: Translation: Let’s not quibble over the particulars. I’d like to retain some of my powers of secrecy.
    I love this one the best!
    Secrecy used as unjust power against the victim.
    You will never know the truth, and the relationship will never be equitable again!
    This is guaranteed. (ask me how I know)

  • As one of the Chump Men on this site, I want to thank you for running these stories about wives who cheat

    I often feel like I’m all alone and that no one pays attention to the men who are chumped. Thank you for acknowledging out pain. It means a lot

    • I felt the same way until I found this site. Both of our parents are in 35yr-plus marriages, there is a lot of love in both families. We (I) never thought we would be after a statistic. My STBXW has serious emotional problems, probably Borderline. She needs serious help, and my former spackling behavior, and her family’s current heavy duty spackling are NOT helping her at all.

    • Glad you guys are finding support here. For me, it’s not a gender issue at all. It is totally a character issue. These cheaters come in many wrappings. Female or male, they suck.

      • 100% THIS!

        Glad you guys are finding support here. For me, it’s not a gender issue at all. It is totally a character issue. These cheaters come in many wrappings. Female or male, they suck.

    • Oh ChumpedDude…, we don’t forget that for every man who screws around on his wife, the OW’s significant other is also getting chumped. My ex-hole’s skank sent me an email (pushed through the UBT https://www.chumplady.com/2015/11/ubt-ow-i-just-want-to-reach-out-and-help-you/) and once I got divorced, I sent it to her now ex-husband. I don’t know if he knew all the crap she did with my husband, but I felt that he had a right to know. These people are all about them; they have no care for anybody’s pain but their own. When they were screwing around did they stop even once to say, “If I do this, I’m going to break Jane’s/Jack’s heart and cause him/her tremendous amount of pain!” Nope, the spouse’s name didn’t even enter their heads until afterwards when they’re figuring out a lie in the event the spouse becomes suspicious. This is certainly NOT a ‘man’ bashing. There are just as many cheating women out there as there are cheating men.

      • Totally agree! It’s definitely a character, not a gender issue.

        And oh my did the UBT do a number on that letter Amazon Chump! You are mighty!

  • “Not now” is not “no”.

    Same as when I said “say you will never see her or any other woman again” and he replied “I don’t have any plans to”…. that’s not what I asked , fucker!

    He always left himself an “out”, he thinks he’s so clever. AssFuck.

    I also got the “details not important” and the angry “I’m not going to spend the next 10 years defending myself!”

  • I was just re-reading some of the old texts/emails I kept (for that book someday!).
    It sickens me now to hear not only his lying, coward bullshit around the fact words but to hear my old self as well. Sad, sad, sad!

    • Me too I have hate. I sound so pathetic, sad, and he sounds so manipulative- I can’t even read it with out cringing. I still fanatize about a letter though to tell him I knew everything. To say my peace. When will ‘meh’ come? ….

  • John, it’s like I’m reading something from my ex. Every line sounds like the bullshit he would tell me. I actually have the same text messages- not kidding!! After reading CL, I have realized all cheaters have the same narcissistic personality type. Every answer to your question about the affair centers around their importance and getting what they want. However, who they want is always a changing variable, depending on which person will give them the most kibbles and centrality.

    Classic Cheater Moves:

    They answers with a half truth. “I am not seeing them right now”, what the fuck does that mean?!! She didn’t say, I will never see him again, she says “right now”. Implying don’t ask me tomorrow or in 5 mins. Right now, I’m talking to you, but tomorrow I could be fucking them in our bed. It’s a mind fuck!

    They want to see you in person and talk things out. My ex was insistent on seeing me in person. Actually, he was relentless in his pursuit to get a face-to-face with me. However, I knew at the time I was too weak and his manipulations would cause me greater pain. Your wife wants to see you cry and infer importance on her existence. Cheaters also enjoy putting on a show and making it all about them- their tears, their pain. If they can show you how sorry they then maybe you won’t leave their sorry ass. Manipulation is so much more effective in person than over text messages. John, don’t do a face-to-face meeting. When you see them it’s hard to reconcile the person you thought they were and who they actually are, and the hopium pipe can come out rather quickly. Your wife is counting on that, don’t let her keep you a chump.

    Pretending to care about your needs. Telling you to take care of yourself. Then bringing up her personal knowledge of you, that you don’t do well if you haven’t had anything to eat. This is a classic cheater move. She wants to remind you that she knows you like no one else, she cares about you, she is concerned about your well-being. It makes you remember the caring wife you believed to have married. Not the whore who fucked some other man for months and put your health, future, finances, and everything you worked for at jeopardy. All cheaters do this, my ex would drop off care packages, make my favorite meal, and consistently send me prayers to make sure I was doing okay. She is trying to sell you the hologram image, you thought was your wife. When she send you this shit, you need to consistently do a reality check. Write down all of the lies and horrible things you have found out and keep it handy. When you start to feel like you want to believe the hologram, take out that list.

    Getting rid of a cheater is a long and extremely painful road. We are here for you at Chump Nation. You deserve a life that doesn’t include a cheater. You deserve to live a life free of fear, drama, STDs, financial ruin, and lies. Block her number and call an attorney. It will be the greatest act of self-love you could ever do for yourself.

    • Awesome advice. But he should change her name on his contact list as “not seeing/f’ing him right now” to keep that at the forefront so she can’t try to weasel her way back in to his life.

    • The part you mention about putting someone’s health at risk. It’s so real. As I was in chemo and radiation, I was trying to be intimate with him. Any way I could. Even At my own pain. And I tried even if I bled. To know now while I was taking neulasta because my blood cells were crashed out and he was ‘raw dawg’ in random girls is diabolical. He knew it could literally ‘kill’ me and he still got his rocks off with a smile. I sometimes feel the weight of the reality/ he wanted me dead. He cared so little about my health or my right to choose if I was infected. It was always I was crazy. He would say, stop this nonsense. Foucault on your health- your just insecure because your sick- lets think happy thoughts… women want me babe..I.cant help it… wtf?

  • Reminds me of my sad sausage cheating wife. All I get since I filed is ‘can’t we just move forward’ and ‘can’t we work this out’. I also get the aforementioned ‘what do you want me to do’; I tell her to take a polygraph, sign a post nup, and get tested for STD’s. She (of course) refuses then complains she can’t talk to me because I am disrespectful and not civil. Nothing but mind games from a disordered person; it’s never about what she did it’s always about my reaction to what she did. It’s frustrating and maddening. If you listen to her BS long enough though you start to doubt yourself and believe what comes out of her mouth (spoiler alert–it’s always a lie).

    • Mine always wanted me to settle the divorce out of court with her. “Why are we paying lawyers when we should be able to work this out?” Then I found out through discovery that she was hiding money………….ridiculous. Glad I went the lawyer route.

    • These disordered types are experts at manipulation and contact with them is very bad for you. They do make you doubt yourself.
      And, even worse, if they have an audience, they can make you look really bad to others.
      The woman cheater here is NPD or BPD or a combo platter for sure.

  • You know what the correct answer is when you are really, truly sorry and they ask whether you’re still seeing the affair partner?

    “No. I am 100% no contact with the OM/OW.”

    At one point, my XH asked me something like, “What could I do to get you back?” I replied, “For starters, you need to go 100% no contact with [OW#1] and [OW#2].” I said that more because I knew he would never do that than because I was willing to work something out.

    Sure enough, he began hemming and hawing at the thought of even unfriending them on FB and finally blustered, “Well, if I’m going to do that, you need to change X-Y-and-Z, and prove to me that there’s something worth coming back to!” So glad I ditched that fucker.

  • John,
    If you’re contacting her to get her to agree with you that her character is shitty, that won’t happen. She’s too invested in her image as a caring, concerned person who’s entitled to immediate forgiveness. Her thinking is simple: if I express concern and repeat how much I love you, that should solve this problem. What? You want details and proof I’m not lying?

    You don’t need her to agree with you that her character is shitty (she won’t). What matters is that you believe it.

  • My XH claimed said he was not seeking an AP online, during Round 3 of marriage counseling. I guess we failed to ask the correct question as he was already involved. Since the divorce, I get to hear about the length of their “committed relationship”, which predates our divorce, conception of 2nd child, etc. Trust they suck!

  • “Please eat something. You know you can’t think clearly or function if you don’t.”

    You haven’t eaten anything which means you’re not thinking clearly now. If you were thinking clearly you wouldn’t be interrogating me at all, let alone so angrily.

    Ah yes. Head fucks.

  • Her: “I do love you. I’ve hurt you terribly, but I really do love you. And i’m trying to do a lot of reading on infidelity and marriage. Even though you probably won’t give me another chance, I am trying to be honest with myself and try to start healing. Because I am obviously broken!”

    Uh-huh; reading reddit cheater-boards:
    /r/infidelity/ Help!! My husband read my texts between me and my lover, now what?!
    /r/infidelity/beentheredonethat: Grl, lesson learned. Go out now and get a burner phone.
    /r/infidelity/cuckssuck: First off, DON’T PANIC. Feel him out to see what he knows. Do NOT confess to anything he does NOT know! LIE! LIE! LIE your ass off. The truth is NOT your friend!
    /r/infidelity/lifes2short4-1: +1 don’t panic. Turn it around on him. If he wasn’t such a lousy lay, and an asshole to you, if you’re marriage were half as good, you wouldn’t need to bang anyone else.
    /r/infidelity/cumngetit: Delete anything incriminating. In fact, reset your phone now to completely wipe everything clean. If you end up divorcing, he can possibly use this to fuck you over. #plausibledeniability
    /r/infidelity/rockstardick: You’re probably going to have to lay low for a couple months. Calm your husband down. Go to a couple therapy sessions together. Then start going on your own. You’ll be able to use that as an excuse to get away on a regular basis so you can reconnect with your lover.
    /r/infidelity/sucknjive: Oh you poor sweet thing, I saw you were really beginning to connect spiritually with your lover. It sucks to be torn apart like that. Your heart must be breaking.
    /r/infidelity/lifes2short4-1: +1 Broken heart. Remember to take care of yourself. This is only temporary. Take a spa day for yourself.
    /r/infidelity/beentheredonethat: Grl, in addition to the burner phone; remember to wipe your browser history and temporary files clean off the computer. You don’t want your asshole husband snooping around and finding your gmail or fakebook accounts.

    • Hmm this one may be my STBXW! Especially if it is from the last month!

      /r/infidelity/ Help!! My husband read my texts between me and my lover, now what?!

  • I am in shock!! This is EXACTLY what I have been hearing over the past two months before I decided to block him!!

    He kept saying that HE was depressed, HE has wrecked HIS life, HE needs to discover what HE wants

    No concern about what I was going through!

    And no direct questions answered, similar to that of a politician!

    And I actually was clinging onto these little crumbs. It wasn’t until I asked him directly if he loved her, and he said ‘my head is fucked’. Block, bye, you fucking fucked up entitled shit bag. It’s been 2 1/2 weeks no contact, and he hasn’t even tried to contact me any other way. Like CL said- actions speak louder than words.

    • My ex texted me several months after NC by me. He Said The following mindfuck; ‘I know you dont like to communicate. I know you have rules with exs so ill just speak and you can read. Ive taken your advice and started going through therapy. Brittany has been working on me and my honesty to her is making it go a lot smoother. One thing she pointed out yesterday is how much you truly did help me. Where are relationship ended is where it ended and we need not get into that. But what she said is how you were my rock and my strength. My dark angel i needed and i thank you for getting me through the worst times in my life. I hope everything is good with you. Thank you again Chumptothe9thdegree’. I know it’s your m.o. To never respond’.

      Bait me much. Love the part about ‘not talking about our relationship’ fucking loser.

      • I had cancer and you lied, cheated, stole, decieved me, and we don’t need to get into why it ended. Of course not fuckface! Why would you want to talk about all that when we can talk about you in therapy! Ubt I see this text now for what it is- but when I got it- tears for days not to respond – but because of you CL, CN- I held no contact. He texted me some more several times but after greyrock- he then just withheld my mail and health documents hostage hoping I’d have to get them. But I didnt…

  • John: Obviously, your wife did not read Dr. Gary Chapman’s “The Five Languages of Apology” (author also wrote “The Five Love Languages”) before drunk-texting you! Google it or go to: http://credu.bookzip.co.kr/Resource/Englishbook/PDF/AD30305.pdf

    I’m sure you’ve already figured out that what you received was NOT an apology. It was a mind-numbing clusterfuck of a test to see if you would cave and take her back – no questions asked – happily standing by until the next twinkly OM distracted her.

    Now that she’s realized just how badly she miscalculated what would happen if OM ever dumped her, you have the upper hand. Do not cave. Do not acquiesce. Do not trust her. Do not believe a word she says. Do not do the Pick Me Dance. Do not make excuses for her to your family or your mutual friends.

    Respect yourself and move forward without her.

    As Maya Angelou once said, “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” This could be viewed in a positive and a negative angle, but in your situation, there is no positive. If you give your wife a second chance, be prepared to get burned.

  • Your relationships outside of your marriage unless they are familial should NEVER be complicated. You are a friend. Or a co-worker. Or a neighbor. Or fucking postman/mail recipient for God’s sake. It’s NOT HARD. If you have any COMPLICATED relationship with anyone of the desired sex it’s no bueno and you shouldn’t be having that relationship. Guess how many complicated relationships I had outside my marriage. 0️⃣ The relationship you have with your spouse or family should be the most complex (because they involve the most intimacy) you have. It should NEVER “be complicated”.

  • I never got an omission of anything, ever. Nothing but denials, even with evidence right in front of him. Which is the main reason i held out in the divorce process and got everything i wamted. He knew he was guilty and I had a ton of proof— he wouldnt dare go before a judge.

    Fast forward to almost two years since DDay and I’m looking into taking him to court for back child support, among other things. Mrs. Dumb-Ass/OWife is in for a rude awakening. …

  • Admissions******* not omissions ggggrrrrr….

    He did leave out a whole hell of a lot (omissions) when I asked him where hed been for the last 18+ hours without a single text or phone call..l

  • Loving the hash tag.
    The Worm still doesn’t get it, so….
    #wearenevergettingbacktogether

    Let’s see if he figures it out now…..

  • That’s the kind of woman I truly wish my ex narc/sick multiple cheater will encounter. He should experience her fake sicknesses and even faker kindness while discovering her multiple infidelities, he deserves it.
    Cheaters should stay with cheaters and leave alone good people.
    As a punishment they should stick together and I’d like to see them live happily ever after.

  • My cheater is with another cheater. They live a hedonistic life and I bring up our children.
    He pops us every odd holiday or so and acts Disney Dad. Does not pay child support (should be) and is v wealthy.
    What’s not to like???
    Not all cheaters crash and burn, he is just dandy

  • Amazing how cheaters run the same language and commentary.

    “Me: Are you still seeing him? Her: We aren’t seeing each other right now. I don’t know what I can do or say for you.”

    There is no remorse here…just a plea to continue the cake.

  • The need for the EXACT right question is classic. Otherwise they are not lying. Mine has continued this (successfully) into court.
    If you do end up in court make damn sure your barrister is skilled at this. No grey area questions at all.

  • From above:

    “I know you don’t want to hear it, but I love you. And I’m devastated for what i’ve done to us. Regardless of what happens, I love you and will always be sorry for doing this to you.”

    I heard this exact and thing today. Like word for word.

    • I’ve gotten it too, multiple times. It really means “I totally fucked up and realize now I can’t keep the benefits of marriage and cake and it sucks. I wanted all of it and consequences suck when I suffer. But I’ll act sad for you because image management. “

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