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UBT: “You’re incapable of forgiveness”

forgivenesstrollbunnyDear Chump Lady,

I’ve been divorced since February but now my ex is asking if we can “try again.” His last text tirade started with, “I miss you so much and want to be your man again. I still love you so much. Will you give us another chance?” I texted back, “I’m not falling for your bullshit anymore.” He spins out of control with dozens of unanswered texts before I finally block him. Here’s a sampling of his rant that I need help decoding, because I stupidly read his mind puke and now I feel the hurt all over again only worse than ever:

“You’re not capable of forgiveness. You’re damaged goods. Damaged since childhood.”

“There aren’t enough years in a lifetime to gain your trust back. You’re a man-hater; a woman scorned.”

“Good luck finding someone at your age. And good luck with your health problems too.”

“Hope you find a big one to ride, that’s all you really need to settle you down a little.” (There are several of these types, most include comments that he’ll miss my “skills.”)

“I’m going younger, she works at Notre Dame. Want to hear about our adventures? You know you’re curious.”

This is when I blocked him thank goodness. What’s your take on what he’s really showing about himself? I need perspective to shake this crap off of me!



Dear Micha,

I don’t think you need the UBT to realize this shit is just hateful. Boy, you can sure see how deep his desire to “try again” is. Look what you’re missing! Who could ever resist this guy’s charms?

But you want to UBT it? Okeydokey.

“You’re not capable of forgiveness. You’re damaged goods. Damaged since childhood.”

The problem isn’t what I did, the problem is your reaction to it. The problem isn’t ME, the problem is YOU, you’re damaged!

(So, uh, the way to get the best out of a “damaged” person is to cheat on and insult them?)

The whole “you’re not capable of forgiveness” is pure cheaterspeak. Roughly translated it means “you’re not capable of rug-sweeping.”

Your cheater is not going to do the hard work, or find humility, or empathy for the horrific hurtful things he did, or make amends or restitution. No — he’s going to blame-shift this on to, the REAL problem of your inability to “forgive.”

Apparently, you’re congenitally incapable of it, so why he’s expecting it, I have no idea, what with your damage and all…


“There aren’t enough years in a lifetime to gain your trust back. You’re a man-hater; a woman scorned.”

Boy it sure sounds like he still “loves you so much”! The guy divorces a vicious man-hater like you, and he can’t wait to get you back?

Again, same tactic. The problem isn’t him, it’s you. It’s your inability to trust, insert insult here (because you’re a woman scorned, a bitter bunny, a withered little raisin of hate…)

So what exactly has he done to earn your trust, except send you insulting texts?

“Good luck finding someone at your age. And good luck with your health problems too.”

The Cheater Curse: I’m The Last Person You’ll EVER LOVE. You were lucky to have me, because you are UNLOVEABLE!

Projection much?

Anyway, it’s just more hate. Aged people with health problems find love every day. He’s doing the abusive tactic of trying to frighten you into a relationship with him by running you down. Who else would have you? You’re a NOBODY! If he succeeds in eroding your self-esteem so much that you take him back, I promise you, he’ll just build that fortress bigger the next time.

You escaped this shit. STAY escaped.

“Hope you find a big one to ride, that’s all you really need to settle you down a little.” (There are several of these types, most include comments that he’ll miss my “skills.”)

He’s misogynist too. What a lovely person. I can’t imagine why you divorced him.

I hope he finds a big one to ride, up his ass, in jail, after he’s violated your Protection From Abuse order. Consider one, seriously. If he keeps harassing you, show these texts to your lawyer and have him formally put on notice for criminal harassment.

“I’m going younger, she works at Notre Dame. Want to hear about our adventures? You know you’re curious.”

Oh, the loss of kibbles! It’s devastating. Want to hear about our adventures? No. Yawn. Not curious.

The guy is desperate for centrality. He misses cake and the pick me dance. Dance pretty again! DANCE MOTHERFUCKER!

Please don’t let this creepy, hateful dick dribble hurt you. You took the garbage out when you divorced him. Let that crap stay at the curb. NO CONTACT.

If you ever needed a reminder of what you’re missing — he sent it. I’m sorry, please don’t give this guy the power to hurt you. Like you need validation of your worth from that monster? He’s gone, gone, GONE. And you are FREE!!! Don’t ever invite his hate into your life again. ((Hugs))

This column ran previously. 

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  • He sounds like a 7yr old having a tantrum. Aged 7 or 8 they actually think up hurtful things to say, maybe he will follow up by running down the road and hiding behind a car, sobbing uncontrollably and slapping his own snotty face.

    • My thoughts exactly but I didn’t want to say it at and risk insulting 7 year olds. 🙂 May be he’ll refuse to eat next?

      • It just sounds like he will make up whatever he can to be as hurtful as possible because he can’t deal with being hurt like an adult. I mean, when we get hurt we shake it off, go for a walk, have a hot bath with candles and go to bed a little earlier. We just fucking DEAL with it and MOVE ON to the next day. This guy doesn’t know how to take care of his hurt feelings. So he’s decided the way to do that is rip you down. Sort of an “I didn’t really want to play ANYWAY!” He hasn’t even reached the maturity level to figure out why you wouldn’t want to play again. It’s probably the exact same personality glitch that told him cheating was a good idea. “I’m having feelings, so I can’t do whatever I want to whoever I want whenever I want because feelings!” And now he’s not getting what he wants so he can act like a moron.

      • Mantrums!! Oh my Lord, Strad, that’s beautiful. What is it CL says about the channels that they flip between? Charm? Rage? Self-pity? It’s as though he’s read the mindf*** manual for the disordered. It’s exactly like Tracy wrote in her post from 2/1/16:

        “Three channels. Charm, rage, and self-pity. This is how you control a chump. Find their buttons and work ’em. If you can’t intimidate your chump, seduce your chump. If you can’t seduce your chump, get them to feel very, very sorry for you and imply this is All Their Fault. If you can’t get your chump to feel sorry for you, intimidate your chump. Repeat.”

        Once we can see the script, this shit becomes so crystal clear that the only clarity we’ll seek is the off button on the remote! Best to you, Micha!

        • Interesting read on this day for me…. been no contact for about a month after his last few comments. A month ago I got…”if you only knew what I feel deep down, one day I will tell you.” And..” I know you don’t believe me, but I do care about you.”
          A week letter I get a text that’s he’s marrying the OW who’s pregnant. Shotgun wedding. Never responded to that text and no contact since.
          Today … out of the blue I get…”sorry to bother you..just want to say hi”
          Why now? A week before your wedding? To make sure I’m still emotionally attached? Crying in a corner? Caring? So you have an out? To keep stringing me along? Because you feel guilty for what you’ve done? Because you’ve made a joke of your life?
          Not my problem buddy … go cry to your home wrecking bitch. You are toxic sludge to me

      • “Mantrums!” Right on!

        One day, I had to bundle my small
        children into their coats and scoot them off to our trusted neighbours two doors down. X was having a mantrum. Throwing things, yelling, kicking things around, punching holes in walls (but only the walls that he could hide, like the walls in closets).


        • When the traitor’s son was about 3-4 years old and he got mad at me for not letting him get his way all the time, he used to rage and say “I’ll cut you up and feed you for shark treats!” and stomp off to his bedroom. He was more articulate that this idiot. Mantrum! Great word!!

          • Toddler threats are the best. I was also threatened with being cut up, but my pieces were destined for the sushi train not shark treats. Plus of course the devastating “you’re not my best friend anymore” or (drumroll…) “You’re not coming to my party!” (a particularly impotent threat given I was the sole organiser of said parties)

            • I just had a very unpleasant image of my limbs and buttocks on large plates going around our local sushi train along with the usual elegant little plates of sashimi

    • He sounds like psycho-loonie tune. So glad you got rid of that POS!

  • Absolutely agree with the advice of getting an order of protection. That man sounds completely unhinged. First he wants to ‘try again’, then he says he is dating someone and is ready to tell you all about it? That is some level of sick and twisted and I would honestly fear for my safety.

    Divorce was the best decision made and no contact with a protection order absolutely a next step. Those texts are absolutely horrifying.

    • I was reading about a phenomenon called “negative intimacy” and it seemed to make sense. As much as they claimed to love you, they will hate you in equal measure. But the main point for people like this man is to remain at the center of attention. Good attention or bad, it doesn’t matter, so long as they have you in a state of chaos because of their actions. Often, the conduct escalates when they are not getting the attention they “know” they deserve. Unfortunately, unpredictable and sometimes violent behavior is part of the pattern, so a domestic violence injunction is often necessary.

      • I’ve lived this and it’s a special kind of hell you would not wish upon anyone (well hardly anyone). It’s not that they give a shit that we left, it’s their ego that is damaged as they’ve lost their narcissistic supply and are more worried about how they appear in front of others so that’s how they project and deflect. It unglues them when people see through their bullshit and they are incapable of seeing their own faults.

        The only way of dealing with these psychos is to not engage with them at all. If you have kids to one of them – my sympathies lay with you.

      • I very much agree, Violet. My asshat said eerily similar things to me … and I ended up having to get an order of protection against him because the vitriol continued to escalate to the point of being dangerous.

        One of the things I’ve learned through this entire nightmare is that there is no “hitting bottom” for the extreme narcs/sociopaths. Just when you think you’ve seen the worst in them, they prove you wrong.

          • So true, and when they have nothing to lose, they will go hell for leather to destroy everyone along with them. A friend of mine committed the “unforgivable sin” of leaving her emotionally abusive narc husband, and 4 years on he is still making her life hell and dragging it out through courts, regardless of the cost to them financially.

      • Wish I had gotten that order of protection … I’ve been no contact since writing in to CL but every few months or so he finds a new way to send menacing messages. I moved to a different state to get away and recently bought a new home – he sent me card in the mail to let me know he he found me. And yesterday I came home from work and found an obscenely posed naked Barbie in a cage. Her hair was chopped up and she had a huge pearl necklace and something pink tied too tight around her neck. I just know it’s from him. I called the police and had them walk through the house before I would go in. Their advice was to get a security camera, which I definitely am doing.

    • I think the consequences of cheater actions, namely divorce and you leaving (also sometimes not staying with AP or losing job, etc), result in them coming unhinged until they move on. They have not acted in your best interest or made sane and wise choices, and now they have to live with the fallout. They live messy lives. You are collateral damage. But, you get to walk away, move on, with your principles intact. Do NOT listen to the hate. Block and NC.

    • She won’t get one in most states. He’s done nothing threatening. It’s really difficult to get orders based on text messages wilhere there is no actual threat.

      A lot of states only grant protective orders if the couple is in a current relationship and there has been either physical violence or threat of physical violence. Neither seem to be the case here

      He’s being an asshole, but he’s technically not harassing her.

      Also, criminal harassment is a lot more severe. Most judges and juries would view this as a pathetic man trying to win wife back.they wouldn’t even view it is mild harrassment

      It’s generally a bad idea to try and get protective orders when they’re not warranted. All it does is make you look like an irrational person to the judge. In a lot of jurisdictions, the judge she would make that decision would be the same as the one who would be deciding issues on the divorce.

      What she should do is to have her lawyer send him a very sternly worded letter about having no contact with her directly. If there’s any need for a contact at all because of the divorce, it should go through the attorney. The attorney can vaguely state that they will take “any appropriate legal action” if he persists.

      I know everyone on here means well, but as an actual attorney, I have to say the Internet has made my job a lot harder. People have unrealistic expectations of what I can do. I have very unrealistic expectations about protective orders. I get a lot of people tell me “but I read on the Internet…”

      If your exes being inappropriate and contacting you and blocking them doesn’t stop it, call your lawyer. Do not try to self help. You can actually hurt yourself and your case by doing so

      • Every state has different laws and many states now permit injunctions for harassing electronic communications and no longer require that the complainant live, or even have had an intimate relationship, with the aggressor. Obviously, this woman should contact an attorney in her state to see if she qualifies for such protective order. I certainly would not conclude, however, that she is ineligible for protection in her state. The laws are changing daily because of the many horror stories that arose from the failure to protect individuals in these type of situations.

      • Agree with Avette. Being an asshole isn’t enough for a protective order. Better to have an attorney send a letter of cease and desist so you have it on record for the hearing to divorce. You may be able to get court-appointed communication that he will have to pay for.

        • Disagree. My XH got one against me based solely on non-threatening texts I sent to him the night he brought shmoopie home to meet my newly ex’d in-laws. I hadn’t seen him in four months and there were no phone calls. My attorney was a judge pro-tem and said they pass those out like candy. It depends on the venue. I am in Arizona.

      • There are specific statutory protections for cyber stalking in many states and there is a specific cyber stalking crime in the federal system. Such injunctions can issue in many states if the perpetrator engages,”…in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.” There is NO requirement to establish any type of domestic relationship to obtain a cyber stalking injunction under this statutory scheme. Again, what may be actionable in one state is not actionable elsewhere, but these injunctions are granted routinely where I live. A lawyer’s letter has no enforcement value at all, and are really meaningless, something many abusers are very aware of.

  • My STBX cheater does very similar things–a few of the texts seem verbatim! At first this used to hurt me a lot, and I’d be knocked out for a few days, because he knows how I wanted to be forgiving–even toward him. I think seeing him as he truly is may have been one of the hardest lessons I ever had to learn. I really wanted to have my own way! I wanted him to be what I wanted him to be, and it was so hard for me to accept him as a co-inhabitor on this planet, just the way he is–a narcissistic, emotionally undeveloped human.
    My response now: “Yep, you’re right. I have no need to forgive those who choose to be lying cheaters.”
    Then I block him. The first time. Though sometimes I mix it up a bit and add “lying, cheating infant brain” or “annoying mosquito” or “what are you blathering on about now?” Incenses him and I laugh, for a minute, before carrying on with my amazing life.

    • One of the most important ways this site has helped me is captured in your comment, “a few of the texts seem verbatim.” Our abusers work so hard to convince us that WE are weak/stupid/worthless/etc., especially when we start to catch on to them. I got stuck in the “but I’m special/she’s not like that/we’re different” quicksand at the beginning of our relationship, and that kept me there a lot longer. When I read about everyone’s situations, I am reminded that our cheaters are like-minded. They even have their own handbook of tactics and catch phrases!

  • Nothing like someone who wants “forgiveness” heaping further abuse on you in the process. Oh, wait, that’s how they roll.

    There is nothing for you with this turd. Go No Contact and “forgive” that he ever existed.

  • Stay no contact! Don’t give them anymore. They’ve already taken so much. You divorced them for good reason. Don’t let their mindfuck back into your life. Enjoy your freedom from crazy.

  • Oh. I heard pretty much the exact same thing out of cheater ex myself. They just fling out various crap, seeing what will work. That’s why I wouldn’t worry about what he means, feels, etc cause there is no meaning to it. Except that he is cra cra. And you should have no contact with the cra cra. Whatever it takes.

  • My XH used to send me texts in this vein. “No one will ever love you like I did” (thank god for that!) “You’re damaged goods” (…so you’re begging me back why?) “You were lucky to have me” (Yeah, I count my blessings daily ?)

    I’d block his number- which was a huge deal a decade ago, you couldn’t just block from your mobile, you’d have to phone your operator and justify why you wanted to block a number…many times they refused on the first attempt, and I’d have to get a police reference number- only for a new number to spring up. He was getting free PAYG SIM cards and swapping them out as quickly I was blocking.

    For ages afterwards he’d text about his latest Soul Mate with an Expiration Date. At first it really got under my skin, but then one Tuesday I suddenly didn’t give a hoot. He’d text “I’ve met the love of my life. I never knew what love was like before now. I can tell you what it’s like to have a soul mate so you know what it feels like.” My response? Oh. No thank you. TO EVERYTHING. Didn’t matter what he said, I’d just text back “Oh. No thank you.” It drove him utterly insane. He ramped up the texts then suddenly stopped. It was marvellous.

    • ‘Soul mate with an expiration date’ is just. too. darn. funny!!!! I love it.
      I really ticked off my ex when I told him his latest schmoopie had a short shelf life–boy, was she ticked off! But so accurately describes the situation

      • My XH wanted to email about his current whoever. Once I decide on NC, I never responded, but did move the emails into a file so that if I ever needed to prove anywhere that he was crazy, I would have lots of evidence. Eventually he stopped and at this point (6 years) I never hear from him. I have to initiate a once a year dividing up of time at the cottage and so far it has gone somewhat smoothly. I send my list and 9/10 he sends back an “agreed”. Once he objected and I waited 2 weeks and sent an amended list and he then agreed. No drama works!!

    • Sugar, You mastered Grey Rock before it was coined. It is a brilliant response. High road, but absolute apathy.

  • wow what a psychopath!!! Glad you are rid of him!! My friend has an ex that sounds EXACTLY like that–scary!!

    • I have a friend whose x calls her up and says those things to her. He ran off with AP and married her. Why is he still calling and verbally abusing my friend? Why is she taking his calls and letting him say those things?!

      They have been divorced for 2 years now, and their kids are 12 and 14. I told her to please block him or use scheduling software. She tried, but when he yells at her she just cowers and gives in. He got a restraining order against her! And he has had her served many times for violating the MSA, but each point of contention seems like it has an easy fix or is a miscommunication.

      She won’t stand up to him, and it is so frustrating. She’s really great, too. (Not that anyone deserves that abuse.) She’s a skilled nurse and kind mother. I want to punch her x in the throat at least as much as I want to punch mine. I told her divorce means you don’t have to put up with this anymore. But she is NOT free.

      • Well, I noticed a pattern with my daughter and her X. Their divorce was final two months ago after a year battle over the house. He was dragging his heels about removing all kinds of belongings from outside her property…and her TEENS did not want to spend the night at his house, they only wanted a couple hour visit each week regardless of what the Court scheduled. His belongings included two storage buildings, two spas, tractor and tons of large pieces of outdoor equipment. Each of these things would take help to remove, and he only would do one item at a time and never when he stated that he would. She would also manage to get herself caught in the middle between her teens and him when his visitation would be cut down to what the kids wanted to do instead of what he was permitted by the Court.

        After so many nasty exchanges with him over the last ten months, it dawned on me that my daughter is the one that wanted to continue the drama, wanting some kind of contact whether good or bad. She used his property issues and the teens to initiate conversations with him that never went well. So I told her that it has become rather obvious that she is still hung up on this evil critter and is groping for any and every way to keep him in her life beyond what is necessary. I told her to tell him to go through her Atty to communicate or better yet, file a Motion for a deadline for getting rid of his property on her land, and let the teens handle their father regarding visitation. That put an end to her telling me weekly about all her drama at least. Some people are not ready to let go even if it is in their best interest to do so.

        • That’s a post that truly comes from Meh, because you see your daughter’s behavior as a symptom of still being emotionally tied up with someone she legally divorced. She’s a lucky woman to have you for a mother.

          • Yes LAJ…when I told her that SHE was being her own worst enemy at this point rather than HIM, she turned it around and said that her contact with the X was “to enforce her hatred for him so she would be certain that she did the right thing divorcing”. Uh huh…sure. I told her that she was still caught up in giving him real estate in her head and that it would slow her healing rather than propel it forward. I told her to give him 30 days written notice per enforcement of Court order, (it was Court ordered that he remove ALL his stuff two months ago)… and even offered to pay for some handymen to haul his stuff away and dump it on his property in one day flat…no strings attached if he did not retrieve it during that 30 days. She said that she would handle it her way…which means more unending drama. Fine.

            I went through the final crash/burn of my own marriage around the same time as hers began. I told her to watch very closely to what I DO and LEARN. She sees clearly that I could not give a fig about my X or what he does (I don’t even know…total NC)…whereas, she is still wringing her hands in fits and self imposed torture. You can lead a horse to water….If I know her like I think I do, I think she is frightened of the “unknown” going forward and the feelings of “emptiness” that can follow NC. “Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.” I say, better no devil at all…create your own future and stop dragging around that dead horse. I also told her that it does nothing for her appearance walking around with that sour disposition…I think I might be seeing some new frown lines her face lol!

  • Wow. do they all have the same script? My ex pulls the same crap on me almost monthly. “I miss you, there is nobody else, you were the best”.. Then its. “If you just can get over it (his lying, cheating, hiding money, threatening me) and give me another chance I won’t look at another woman – “but it’s your fault I did those things” (because I was no fun. had lyme disease, brain swelling, couldn’t walk )…..

    And his latest “I want you back” was followed by him hooking up with someone that afternoon and blowing off our on who he was supposed to pick up for bowling..
    Miserable pieces of shit.. All of them.

    • Though they would probably all have similar scripts anyway, it turns out there actually ARE scripts out there. There are entire sites and forums dedicated to cheating successfully, being a player, “getting her to apologize to you instead”, etc. It’s actually a thing. I’ve read enough to get the point, but I stopped, because too freaky.

      Interestingly, a lot of it is the same as sales training. 🙂

      • Ha! My POS Cheater Ex WAS a sales person; quite a good one. Being a pathological liar and champion manipulator is actually a marketable skill…

        One day when I am feeling strong I may venture out to find one of those sites you mention. I imagine I can find exact quotes I got. My Ex used to quote movies occasionally in his drama monologues. I’d catch him in his common “work/sales” cliche’ lines very often when talking (manipulating) me. And I DID wind up apologizing and crying when I’d ask about the woman who called saying she was sleeping about, the hotel calling to ask about our stay, etc. He wa so skilled at making me feel bad for not trusting him and get me soooo sorry and sad. After years I just quit asking about all the red flags like Pavlov’s conditioned dog. UGH! I wish I could go back in time and shake myself.

        • Me too, totally. It turns out the best defense against gaslighting and Narcissism is a strong sense of self worth. 🙂

        • Mine too! He could sell ice cubes to Eskimos; sure sold himself well to me. And he continues to market himself as the victim to our family and friends. Asshole.

    • A Narcissist’s Prayer

      That didn’t happen.
      And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
      And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
      And if it is, that’s not my fault.
      And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
      And if I did…

      You deserved it.

      -Author Unknown to Me.

        • I had never seen it, but when I did….many sad truths became clear. 🙁

          Isn’t it amazing, in a repulsive way, that a person would be believe you would run back with open arms and happiness to someone who would say:

          “Good luck finding someone at your age.”

          The two years I have taken to fix my picker (two looonnnggggg years) have given me Spidey powers about disordered people that I did not have before.

          Before, I would have been stuck on that. Am I old? Will I be laughed out of the singles meet? Am I hideous?

          Now, I think- How dare you speak to me that way. This is YOUR stuff. Not mine. And, that is a lame ass, idiotic idea from the jump: We cannot all be born on the same day and in the same year! People age. It is the cycle of life. Yes..I am 45. AND?

          Even before the DDay, Scuzzy would say these barbs to me, all with a big smile and rubbing my arms. He was very touchy. It would put me in a trance because I found him very attractive. So, endorphins would flow, and you would feel good from the constant touching, intense eye contact and then the drop kick.

          In a thoughtful, bemused voice, he piled my hair up on my head and said, Babe- I think you will eventually be bald one day.
          -But I would love you anyway.

          I was mortified. Immediately starting taking Biotin supplements, combing my part different. I asked my hair stylist, Do I have hair loss? He said, You have enough hair to make some poor soul a toupee and a wig. (Whew).

          I now see that someone who loved me would never say something to me so cruel.

          Kind and sane people do not insult us and then in the same breath tell us they love us. It took me too much pain to discover that miserable truth.

          • Butterbean, X would lure me in with a wide smile and say horrible things, too. Or let me start to kiss him, then jam his finger into my ear.


            I’m 41. When I was with him, I felt useless, worthless, and repulsive. A withered husk. Now? After a year and a bit living out from under his tyranny? I am starting to get to know myself. Overall, I feel a childish glee at the discovery. Lots of issues to work on, but at my age, everyone has baggage. I have to learn to deal with it in such a way that it doesn’t knock things over. Hard work, but a labour of love.

            • Mighty, Throughout the day, as I worked, I thought of you (I used Kate Winslet’s face) leaning in for a tender kiss, and a f*cking sociopathic freak jamming his finger in your ear.

              Any novelist reading this site will use it for their arch villain. It is that evil.

              Yes! The childish glee. I was in a drug store, and I was looking at all the Easter fun candy and baskets. All the colors and bunnies and I thought…Look at all this life. All this wonder. I am not ready to let it go.

              This is my favorite line from the show Six Feet Under, and it is my new mantra, about reclaiming my joy.

              Q: Why do we have to die?

              A: To make life important.

              I just lost a year like a week. All this life around us, things that grow, people that are kind, animals without guile….these disordered freaks are not going to take it from us.

              We have to amp up the JOY, to suffocate the pain.

              • Butterbean, I love your posts! I’ve been feeling a little guilty for doing things for myself while the kids are at their dad’s (having it be only a little guilt is a HUGE improvement, but still working on it), because I felt like I was hiding from my grief by actively hunting for things that bring me “Joy”. But you’re absolutely right, it’s not sugar-coating the grief, it’s KILLING it. I love the visual it’s creating for me. Thanks!!

  • a withered little raisin of hate….

    Coffee through my nose. Can’t get those California raisin commercial guys out of my head now. “You know that I heard it through the grapevine….” — that you’re a big swollen plum of lies and deceit. Fuck off, motherfucker!


    Thanks ChumpLady, I needed that. <3

    Rock on, ChumpNation!!! You are MIGHTY!!!

    • To take a page from the cheater handbook I AM a whithered little raisin of hate. And guess who MADE ME THAT WAY! It’s All. His. Fault. I used to be a happy normal human. And if I’m now a bitter man hater and damaged goods guess why. Fuckers!

      • Sad Shelby,
        You ARE NOT damaged goods. You are having a normal reaction to pathology and trauma. But they are Fuckers. And that is why it takes so long for their mind fuck to cycle out of our system…like a virus.

        At my lowest point, I was not fit to be around other people. I would drag them into analyzing it with me, even if they had been so generous to do for one hour and many times before. Then, if they did not say exactly what I needed to hear at that moment, I would doubt my own judgment and mope. I cringe at my tunnel vision. I was my own echo chamber.

        I am not at Meh, but (and this is going to sound so Barney, as in the big purple Dinosaur) but build yourself up. Positive self talk. Who were you BEFORE you were taken down by a freak? Or, who is the woman you were born to be?

        Last night, I woke up in the middle of the night, and threw together a white cheddar/onion/broccoli quiche for my neighbor, because she has bladder cancer. This morning, as I was getting ready, taking my shower and I sampled a mini one I made for me, and it was so delicious and (FOR THE FIRST TIME)…I thought….

        Scuzzy really lost something in me. He lost a keeper. I loved him with my whole heart, and I am great!!! I am attractive, clean, kind, dependable, a great cook, creative, resourceful and loyal.

        Will this positiveness stay? Not at all. I could be self medicating and howling by tonight. But, it is so much better than dwelling on what I believed I lost. (I lost an abusive, addicted pathological liar and serial cheater. This I am grieving?)

        As Barney as it is, grasping our innate awesomeness that we ROCK! goes such a long way in going back to being a “happy normal human”. I know it sounds hokey, but it works.

        He lost YOU. He lost a prize. You are the cat’s pajamas. He is something caught in the drain at The Burning Man public toilets.

        • Butterbean,

          Although I cringe at the image of Barney, who I despise with a passion, I love the warm sweet image of you baking a quiche for your sick neighbor in the middle of the night and reveling in the enjoyment of your mini quiche. You ARE a keeper. Although I don’t cook/bake much anymore, sometimes I put on music in my kitchen and just dance (and that is NOT a good thing to see). Although a heart does not break even, sometimes there is joy in letting go. I also have not fully let go yet… I hope I will…but I am also a butterfly going through metamorphosis- changing every day. Liking myself better every day. Somehow the deepness of the pain and the loss makes every step of the recovery back to myself so much sweeter. Savor the positive moments.

          • Lost&Found, I *know* you will fully let it go. I love your point about discovering a joy in letting go.

            I had a counselor who I was not clicking with, but she meant well. She had just never been chumped. She said one time that one day, I would be able to remember the good times about Scuzzy, and that was all. She is WRONG, but my goal is to have the joy and he is just nothing….not part of my story anymore.

            That is what I think you will reach.

            What you put so beautifully:

            “Somehow the deepness of the pain and the loss makes every step of the recovery back to myself so much sweeter. ”

            This is so perfect. It does.

            Dance! That is joy in action. I love that. Earth, Wind and Fire: September…try that one. And Let’s Groove Tonight.

            Do you know the first time I saw and heard Barney, I thought it was some type of creepy joke? I was waiting for someone to say, And children, this is what a bad man would talk and sound like who wants to touch you inappropriately.

      • Me three… As a grape is dried the sugars are more concentrated.

        I used to be easy-going and able to find joy in the simple things in life… But now I’m a concentrated ball of vile hatred after all the narcissists surrounding me. Hopefully, you’ll never read in the news about some guy going full Joe Pesci / Raging Bull with a car door in a road rage incident.

      • SadShelby, it would be awesome if you changed your screen name to StrongShelby. You are here reading, learning, contributing, getting stronger every day. Meh is coming, it’s right around the corner.

  • One of my exes was very similar to this,also very cruel with words and putdowns. He also kept saying he wanted to try again,all the while carrying on with other women,even living with one without my knowledge while saying he wanted to work things out(he wasvisiting from another state do it was an easy deception). He claimed I was “ruined” by PTSD from things that happened before I met him as well as putting me down in every way imaginable until my confidence was utterly destroyed and I truly believed that I wasnt worth better treatment. This guy just wants you to beg to please his ego and confirm that he’s an irresistible stud and he wants to use you sexually,he doesn’t like you or have respect for you and if he can break you he will. Get away.

  • I’m still hearing how “hard” all of this (my divorcing him) has been – on him. I guess my fleeing my home still on cancer treatment, looking and feeling like Distressed Barbie and all of the other trauma of the past year were fun for me. But no! Let’s talk about how hard this is for you.
    They are all cut from the same cloth. And literally, every point of contact is like being hit with a poison dart. The KGB has nothing on these jackholes.
    Proceed straight to Meh – do NOT pass Go…

    • Yes, that’s my ex husband too! Since he left the house back in July I found out he secretly cheated on me, lied about being an active cocaine addict for years, lied about paying the mortgage, lied about credit card debt and many loans to pay that debt, cancelled 60 percent of the time he asked to see his 7 year old (…the list goes on and on…) He could only focus on HIS sob story. Not once did he verbalize any concern about the emotional ramifications on his daughter or myself. It was always about HIS stress or HIS pain.

      Trust that they suck.

      You are SO much better off without that sick-o!!

      • Nejla, they are crazy and self-absorbed. The lies, the double lives and the gall of them blaming it all – on US!! Projection at its finest. Um…You can own your choices, Mister. I own all of mine, including staying with you for so long.

        • And all this time I thought the appropriate response to those texts was “Fuck you; you fucking fuck.” Once again, I’m ‘doing it wrong’ … *snort*

  • Do you not have a Big Brother ? I would be happy to assist you in the sibling department and have a nice quiet conversation with this parasite ….
    Just a brief few words that are well understood….you know “guy talk”

    Let me know sis
    Big Bro

  • That guy sounds like a real piece of work. Good riddance.

    I almost wish my STBX would be that blatant with the insults but it wouldn’t fit is image management as a rational, reasonable stable person who “isn’t depressed”. Most of the time he acts all friendly and chatty like we are supposed to be best buds or something even though he doesn’t want to give up his Schmoopie addiction. If I could just accept her we wouldn’t have to get divorced. I could stay home and look after his kids, house and dog for him while she gets the flowers, nights out, attentiveness and affection. If I’m nice he might condescend to install the occasional household appliance for me or something. What’s not to love about that arrangement?

    He says hurtful things to me too, but they are more subtle and disguised as compliments. Last summer he told me that the only good thing he can remember coming out of our marriage was the kids. So now, whenever he tells me how grateful he is for the kids and/or what a great Mom I am, it just a reminder that if it weren’t for them, he would have seen our entire 25 years together as a total waste. He comes across as being reasonable and self-assured, when he is really being selfish, manipulative and insecure.

    • Gotta love those back handed compliments…..once you get to a place where the hurt & frustration is replaced by indifference be careful, your stbx sounds psychotic to me. He thoroughly enjoys demeaning you and once that is taken away he could become dangerous.

    • OMG! The disguises insult! I complained about that for years in regards to my MIL (she is the master of that… think Ray Ramano’s mother in Everybody Loves Raymond). My STBX also has that messed up skill! The funny thing is, my MIL’s 4 children used to joke about this ability as her possibly being trained as CIA operative. People see it, but it’s really hard to explain in words!

      If someone has been able to deconstruct this ability into baby steps I’d love to hear your take on it!

      • There is a lot of stuff he does that hurts me and I still can’t tell if he is doing it deliberately or if he is really just clueless. I guess it really doesn’t matter.

        I actually get along great with the in-laws. All of this has been hard on them too.

        • “Someone who cares would go to great pains to make you feel secure. They would be transparent. It would hurt them to hurt you.” CL

          Emphasis on last line. It is deliberate. Does he avoid hurting the feelings of his boss, a cop who pulls him over or someone he needs to impress? A 330 lb biker who cut him off in traffic?

          I bet he does.

          Clueless…did he manage a secret affair, with all of the thousands of lies and deceptions that entails? That ain’t clueless. 🙁

  • Well, gee, you sure are lucky he still “loves” you despite you being so awful. *eyeroll*

    What he means is, “You’re incapable of forgiveness ON MY TERMS! You’re going insist on me actually being SORRY! You’re going to insist that I CHANGE. You’re supposed to just accept that I’m sorry on face value without asking anything of me and never question me again despite any red flags I put up in the future. This is the forgiveness I am convinced I DESERVE. HOW DARE YOU!”

    What a horse’s ass.

  • You’re free Micha. He was unworthy. Stay free, stay safe. His insults are the sign of his rotten buried ego speaking. So bury his words and the memory of his voice. Be grateful you escaped. Hugs.

  • I can not even relate to this sort of bullshit. My ex cheater just….left. No mind games. No texts. No sorry. No “please forgive me”. Just a bunch of nothing. It was devastating at the time to be so easily discarded and forgotten. But I see now that it was a blessing in disguise. He initiated No Contact and I took the hint. I healed faster than I would have if he’d wanted me to Pick Me Dance. There are times I even feel grateful for it.

    • Conniered, same here. Gone without even a fart left behind. Totally ghosted as if he never existed (and I ghosted him likewise). I take it as a huge compliment to my stance that I am DONE with his bullshit and lies and he KNOWS it. Nothing to work with here…nothing left to say that I would not gladly expose him for being more lies and manipulations. I take it that he now fully understands my intelligence and is not up to the task of attempting to game me anymore.

      We are free indeed, rescued. Enjoy!

    • Me too. Just . . . gone. Ended 38 years with a text message, “I’m done.” I haven’t had more than 100 words with him since he left. I guess it IS a blessing – but in deep disguise.

      • It really doesn’t matter how they do it. Every which way hurts and they are all cowards and they all suck.

      • GeekMom, That is so disorienting, unsettling and wildly abnormal. I am so sorry. I understand. I did not have 38 years but a long time. They don’t bond.

        Have you read about the stages the Disordered go through when they are plotting the Discard.

        From what I can gather, he had already started untying the ropes long before he left. These are the subhumans that can smile as you talk about your day but know they have one foot out the door.

        I do think it is a blessing in “deep disguise”. But, I understand longing for contact, even with a cruel monster, after being with them so long. We have to let of the idea of “closure.”

        I hope you start to feel better.

  • “I hope he finds a big one to ride, up his ass, in jail, after he’s violated your Protection From Abuse order.”-CL

    CL takes down these abusive liars with one knock out punch. It makes me giddy.

  • For some reason, this post reminded me of the completely crazy “reasons for deciding not to reconcile” that cheater boy started churning out in the last few months, once thecshock and awe of dday wore off, and he had turned his attention completely toward image management and blame shifting. Mind you, I have never once expressed a shred of interest in reconciliation, and flat out said no over and over again, listing my reasons. Anyway, here are his reasons for why I “lost.” Snort.

    –I am incapable of forgiveness. Yup, that’s it, all right. Not the numerous affairs, not the long culminating one, not the endless lies and deceptions, not the profound damage to the children, not the shady business practices to hide the affairs, not the emotional and verbal abuse, not the taking endless advantage of my chumpy soul. Nope. The real problem is my ice-cold heart, crusted with permafrost and wrapped in steel.

    –I refuse to take responsibility for my “role in the failure of the marriage.” Quite as though we are talking about a catastrophic and unexpected bridge collapse, here, and I am the engineer that designed and forged the weak link of a part that caused the whole to crash into the rushing river below. Dude, no. I am the bridge. I bodily spanned the rough crossing for you for many terrifying and thankless years. You found a new bridge, and this one is permanently closed. I’ll be out fishing, swimming, and swinging into the pond from a thick rope, jumping gleefully, flying for a glorious moment, landing with a splash, collapsing into giggles. Time for me to live. Brave the rocky rapids without me. I have a sun warmed rock to nap upon, a picnic to savor, starry skies to traverse in peace and freedom.

    –I let my contempt for him show. Why, yes. Yes, I do.

    • I hope I can develop that mighty attitude some day! I am in awe, really. I am so far behind all of you. But you all are helping me and I do appreciate it. Thanks CL and CN!

    • Time for me to live. Brave the rocky rapids without me. I have a sun warmed rock to nap upon, a picnic to savor, starry skies to traverse in peace and freedom.

      ^ Love this. Travelling has been one of the things that has been tremendously healing for me. Travelling to places I haven’t visited before makes me feel renewed – like there really is more to life than that single person in a world of 7 billion who fucked me up. Since letting go of that human baggage a year ago my life has been more peaceful. I feel light – like flying on a hot air balloon bidding my farewell to the mess he created in my life and onwards to a better place.

    • “Dude, no. I am the bridge. I bodily spanned the rough crossing for you for many terrifying and thankless years.”

      Well said.

    • ” I’ll be out fishing, swimming, and swinging into the pond from a thick rope, jumping gleefully, flying for a glorious moment, landing with a splash, collapsing into giggles. Time for me to live. Brave the rocky rapids without me. I have a sun warmed rock to nap upon, a picnic to savor, starry skies to traverse in peace and freedom.”

      WOW! That is fantastic. I feel the power in your words. He can go tread water in a sewage pit. You will be wrapped in cashmere, satisfied, sated, warm and free~!

  • Is there some secret society that gives these cheaters the same playbook? I swear there must be! Hold on tight because (I’ve found anyway) this kind of cheater wants to make you pay for finding self respect! They want to justify their shitty behavior and will say and do just about anything to have you and everyone else believe they are the victim of your evil existence! The pattern here is to justify their behavior or criticize your behavior by throwing a negative label on you!

    They cheated – it’s because you had a bad childhood that made life with you unbearable. You are so fragile they couldn’t address you like an adult, because they didn’t want to hurt you (golly-gee, aren’t they noble). So they sought relief from your dysfunction in the arms of another (poor sausage… they’ve been through so much, and obviously this was the “functional” ?answer to their problem).

    You impose consequences – you’re just bitter and unforgiving.

    You have boundaries – you are rigid and inflexible.

    You demand equal treatment – you are a man/ woman hater.

    You have standards of acceptable behavior – you are demanding and critical.

    You want them to take some of the parental responsibility load – you’re a bad uninvolved parent.

    I admit, on occasion I still fall for the DARVO. It takes a long time to unplug yourself from the pattern of living that way for so long (18 years in my case). Not to mention it is hurtful when you gave so much, received so little in return, only to now hear how awful you are!

    • My cheater exactly!! They’re all the same. It is very hurtful though. Being blamed for everything and hearing what a terrible person you were and are sucks. That’s the hardest part for me right now.

      • How about looking at this from a different viewpoint. He cheated on you, therefore he lied. So he is a liar. This LIAR says you are terrible. Says that everything is your fault. But he is a liar, and he is lying about all of that. He is the one who is character disordered. You are authentic. Keep telling yourself that, because it is the truth. With my ex, he was such a damned liar, but he would say he was “bullshitting”. Sounds gross, but more lighthearted than the word “lie” to him, I suppose. I started telling myself that anything and everything he said was his bullshit, and it really helped. Good luck to you!

  • You know I don’t know how I resisted his reconciliation attempts. Made while he was living with the ow. Apparently being told I’m a cold hearted bitch really means I love you. Being told all this is my fault means I’m sorry. Telling anyone who would listen the above things means I value you. Being told I had stopped loving him years ago meant it was all my fault. Being told he has forgiven me for all the tears I caused him to shed, well that one I couldn’t even wrap my head around. Being told he would tell everyone I wasn’t a cold hearted bitch if I took him back meant I will show everyone I’m a better person than her because I forgive her for forcing me to cheat. I once asked him why he wanted to reconcile if our marriage was so horrible. Crickets. Thank God I found CL and NC.

    • Snort! Same here, newday. So strange that none of his overtures–all made while living with and claiming to love the slut–were at all appealing. Oh, gosh.

  • OK. He’s an abuser (“You’re damaged goods. Damaged since childhood.”) If, like many of us, you experience abuse or neglect in childhood, you aren’t “damaged goods.” You are a survivor working to get past this huge early challenge. To call someone “damaged goods” is to equate that person to inanimate object that might be damaged in shipping and can’t be repaired. Those of us who have been wounded or hurt in life (and that is everyone) can overcome almost anything with support, love and therapy. There are Holocaust survivors and African-Americans who lived through Jim Crow and kids whose parents were murdered and war refugees. Are they “damaged goods”? Of course not. They are human who have suffered and who face the challenge of healing. So what kind of man call someone he purports to love “damaged goods”? As CL points out, that’s a man who wants an abused woman to control and manipulate.

    He’s cruel. ““I’m going younger, she works at Notre Dame. Want to hear about our adventures? You know you’re curious.” Nothing like slapping your face with his next AP when he’s already devastated you with his infidelity.

    He’s stupid: ““You’re not capable of forgiveness.” No. You are not foolish enough to “forgive” someone who is clearly NOT SORRY.

    He’s mean: ““Good luck finding someone at your age. And good luck with your health problems too.” He says “good luck,” which means after cheating on you, he’s willing to willing to double down and make you feel worse about your potential for recovering from his abuse.

    But even a zombie squirrel finds an acorn once in a while: ““There aren’t enough years in a lifetime to gain your trust back.” This is exactly true. There aren’t enough years because he is not capable of gaining your trust back. That would require him not to be abusive, cruel, stupid and mean. And he shows you he can’t by blaming you–you can’t trust because you are a man hater when the fact is that he lies and cheats and abusers, which makes him not worthy of anyone’s trust.

    Why, why do chumps stay in contact with these bullies?

    • ^^^
      So inspirational, true and Bull’s Eye.

      I get excited when I see your posts, LovedaJackAss.

      • I get annoyed when I see the typos but geez I get interrupted 17 times when I try to post at work.

  • I heard these things too. You’ll never find anyone as good as me. You were the love of my life. You were the only one for me. But you were crazy.

    Nope. The Fucktard was a lying cheating scumbag. I made his life easy. He wanted all of that back, and he wanted to put me back in my place so he could go on being a lying cheating scumbag with an easy life. That is all.

  • “hateful dick dribble”….omg, CL never fails to make me laugh!

    She is spot on about “finding someone at your age”. Classic projection, right there! I actually SMILE when I imagine my STBX (and his OW) trying to start a relationship with someone new. Especially the part where he must explain to the new woman why we divorced.

    I imagine 3 scenarios, in which he would:

    a) Lie. And have to keep on lying to cover up that lie with other lies, which can get confusing and downright exhausting.
    b) Tell the truth. Explain how he destroyed his family by lying to his wife and children, and having hours and hours of unprotected sex with his amoral, skanky coworker in an elementary school bathroom. And what decent, self-respecting woman wouldn’t want to stick around for that?
    c) Tell the truth to a woman who is OK with his actions has a husband and father, because she herself NOT decent or self-respecting or virtuous. What a prize!

    Bottom line. You, Micah, are a catch and he knows it.

    • Yes I think about these also. Any decent woman would run a mile.
      They are damned.
      We on the other hand.

  • My first wife, never remorseful, once respond when I told her that her describing the body of the young pro bicycle racer she had been with seemed cruel “Well, it was not just his muscular physique that was so impressive.” A clear reference to his endowment.
    The thing I notice about these folks is that after a while, they are very comfortable denying ever having said things. And, they are really convincing.
    Same with the evidence I found of the affairs. Each XW when questioned about the evidence was extremely adept at not answering.
    They would use a variety of techniques including just ignoring the inquiry as if they did not hear it, hanging up, and the most common one, alleging that I am stuck and how , after all this time, could I still be intent on getting information about what actually happened.
    How does one avoid answering what was meant by a journal entry stating : I need to stop my destructive habits; smoking, drinking, sex with strangers. I wish I had made photocopies, as , to this day, I question whether I misread her handwriting or she was just fantasizing. But, I know what I read and with all the other evidence I found, there should be no doubt.
    This kind of goes back to a previous article by CL, the one questioning why, despite being completely busted, they continue to deny.
    I think that most of us cannot imagine being so brazen as to deny in the face of the evidence being so clear. We would be embarrassed and could not pull it off. But, these folks do it naturally and are well practiced. Their entire lives they have lied like this, I imagine.
    And as to this particular guy that is harassing his wife, he is a complete asshole and NPD.

    • I could really use some good UTB today. It is my birthday and after one of cheating hubby’s completely demeaning e-mails yesterday where he refers to me in the third person (my lawyer thinks that is strange), he sends me a “Happy birthday! Make it a good one. “Email. It will be a good one when he finds out I have filed for divorce which could be today, but until then I am sure my fellow chumps could provide me with some great translation!

      You make me stronger!

      • Feelingit–I’m sorry your STBX sent you a demeaning email, but consider the source. If a fuckwit doesn’t like you, that must mean you are a fabulous person! Hugs.

      • I say the “Happy birthday! Make it a good one!” email is a masterpiece of combined impression management (“See, I remembered your birthday”) and intermittent reinforcement. Think of the email as the print equivalent of the “charm” channel of the pity, charm and rage cycle. They throw out something “nice” or “charming” because for months and years we desperately grab onto any sign of affection or decency or potential for change. He thinks it still works and apparently many of these cheater jackasses never give it up. It’s damn hard to replace a kibble source.

      • Only a narcissist could transform a supposed birthday wish into a demeaning order. Sheesh.

        Happy Birthday to you, FellingIt. ? ? ?

        • These replies have made my day !!! Cashmere you are a master linguist- only a controlling assclown( my kids came up with that on their own and it stuck) would turn it into an order!

          He forgot my 15 year old daughter’s birthday three weeks ago and blamed my 21 year old son for that. I wish he would have forgot mine but it is all about the show and kibble to boot!

          Thanks for helping make it great! Lol

          You are truly perceptive!

          • Feelingit,

            I won’t tell you to have a happy birthday. I won’t demand you wrench your face into a smile and order you to enjoy it.

            I will say I hope you enjoy(ed) your Birthday and I hope you have many more.


      • Funny, I was annoyed that STBX went completely no contact on my birthday (but only on my birthday). No “Happy Birthday” text, no nothing. Then bright and early the next day, 8:00am, the flurry of texts start up again. “Hey I hope you had a nice party.” “Is there any beer left?” “If so I can take that off your hands for you since I know you don’t like beer.”

        • I just had a fabulous birthday dinner at a nice restaurant with my 5 children. They didn’t even acknowledge his birthday last October. Afterwards we came home and had cake and presents. They started laughing when they told me about their group text about what to get me – my daughter had put out the question and my 12 year old son came back with “a boyfriend ” and they said within a minute my daughter had posted a link to “a boyfriend in a box” on amazon. It was a blowup doll. We were rolling laughing. What they don’t know, is after stbx left is he gave me what I call his hate journal which is a vulgar rant about how awful I was and in it he says sex was awful and it would have been better with a blowup doll. My attorney says I should thank him for the hate journal because if it ever gets to court, he will tear him apart with that. It would put the ubt into overload.

          The kids do bash their dad at times and I don’t stop them. I don’t want them to succumb like me. You just can’t be politically correct with narc abusers. I used to think- well he doesn’t hit me but now I realize it was abuse just the same. It makes me sick all these people saying the kids need a relationship with their dad just because the emotional scars aren’t visible. It isn’t alienation, it’s protection!

          Thanks for your wishes- first birthday without him- best birthday in years!

      • Oh yes, and I hope you had a nice birthday without your idiot STBX.

  • This reminds me of that wise expression — “Stop trying to have a rational argument with the drunk at the end of the bar”.

    For your health and sanity, you must go No Contact/Gray Rock/BLOCK every form of communication. If you need to communicate with him do it through email but do not respond for 24 hours or longer.

    I understand you wanting to connect with him. However, nothing good will ever come out of it. I found that reading Out of the Fog was a very good primer on both understanding and dealing with disordered types of people – or google Borderline Personality Disorder.

    • Exactly! You can’t heal if you are still allowing poison into your ears and mind.

  • Yikes!! With that kind of contempt and hostility he has for her, I’d be afraid of Micha ending up buried in a crawlspace somewhere :-O

  • I’d be tempted to go all David Mamet on that one:

    “You are not capable of forgiveness.”

    Me: Co-RRECT.

  • This is not a good person. Seriously. Don’t engage with this guy. Any person who uses sexual harassment to intimidate another person deserves a special place in hell.

  • I’m at the point where not having a relationship again doesn’t sound SO bad. I mean yes, I’d like some…company, but I just don’t know if I want to deal with someone else’s BS. My job takes up a lot of my time, I have friends and dinner parties, I’m planning a solo two-week road trip through the wine country in Oregon and Washington. I don’t want to put anything aside for someone else who might just end up being a waste of time. Thoughts?

    • It’s a simple equation actually. When Ann Landers had her advice column, her question was a simple, ” are you better off with him/her, or without him/her?”

      If someone is an asset and an enhancement to your life, then go for it.

      If some is a detractor to your life and well being – “Buh Bye”

      • New can of worms here…. HOW does one “fix their picker?!” I met my serial cheater at 18, he was my 1st boyfriend. We dated for many years, then married for 21. Since my vow actually meant something real to me, Id am completely inexperienced at dating, flirting, all of it! I want to date, but I’m scared — it’s a constant tug of war. (Not that it would be easy to meet someone as a single Mom with 3 jobs…) But I do spend a lot of time thinking about how to know when I’m ready and how to GET ready.

        • Married for longer but in similar situation. I dont think about dating at all but just going out and meeting new people. Meetup groups are great for this. Others have said, rememeber what you loved to do at 21 and go and do it again. There are meetup groups for everything these days and I have already met genuine human beings who have shown me more love (in a platonic sense) than I got from my STBXW in years.

    • Hey I’m with you absolutely. The Twat left 7 years ago – divorced 5 years – and while a colleague at work pestered me to go out with him, it was really more of a friendship. I’m perfectly happy going on my solos trips, no more Twat spending my salary on his toys, no more violence, no more snidey remarks from Mr. Perfect. Why should I spoil that. If someone great came into my life – great. If not, I’m 100% ok with it.

    • I totally agree. I don’t want to do online dating because I’ve spend way too many years trying to figure out “is this the truth?” And we all know how exhausting that can be. When a man pays attention to me I always question why. I just don’t have it within me (right now) to even spend one nano second on dating again. Yes, I’m lonely and I really want another relationship but the build up to that is too much for me right now. I’m concentrating on my career and that all that I MAKE time for besides being a mom. I’m meh about the ex but the damage he has done remains.

      • Stay clear of it. Focus on your career and your well being.

        I took a chance and gave a WEIRDO my phone number. I thought…No risk, no reward!

        We had been talking for about 4 minutes. I told him I was going to Colorado on April 7. Before I could explain why I am going (to the largest private wildlife sanctuary in the USA!), he starts…almost shouting in a petty, bizarre, Na-Nanny Boo Boo tone:

        YOU’RE A POTHEAD!!! That’s why you want to go to Colorado!!!! You’re a POT HEAD!!!

        You know how the walls sort of wobble…I was, WTF? When I would start to speak he would interrupt:


        For a brief second, I was going to come back at him but I just quietly hit end on my call. I blocked him but his texts still came through because I use a free app called Mr. Number.

        He texted: I understand we don’t click but you did not have to hang up on me. You are rude.

        And this was the cream of the crop of the online dating prospects. I know there are outliers in the online dating game..but for now…Ugh.

        I am laughing as I type this because it was so bad…that was 4 minutes in! Can you imagine what he would be like in a relationship? ?

        • Oh God that’s so funny. During my very first experience of online dating the eeeejit asked if he could lick my feet while I was wearing high heels. I thought he was joking so said yes of course. Then as the conversation went on I realized he was serious!!!! Bloody hell. So then he told me I was frigid and blah, blah, blah. I told him I was going to listen to music that night at XXX with some friends, I would be wearing a red dress and dared him to show up! If he did I have no idea but really!!!! That being said, I met up with about 8 men I met online (for coffee, lunch etc – always somewhere public) and I met some nice men. Dated 2 of them (and am still friends with them). Just 2 weirdos, but you do have to be careful.

          • To tie your smart dating practices, Attie, back to an earlier comment about how to fix a picker, I’d suggest the practice of labeling any difference of opinion or taste with insulting language is always a good sign that the labeler is a bad prospect. It doesn’t matter if he/she uses “frigid,” “crazy,” or “stupid,” but as soon as someone applies one of those words to you with the intent of devaluing your beliefs or boundaries, it is time to end the call, head for the exit, or otherwise move on.

            We know (usually) not to choose people who are obviously frigid, crazy, or stupid, but somehow we seem prone to choosing people who think that way about us. Until we fix our pickers. Part of fixing the picker is refusing to live with double standards–i.e. expecting more of ourselves than we expect from our partners.

            • I just laughed at him, said if he was so hot and sexy how come I was going out with friends that night and he was sitting home alone wanking!

  • Ok. I’m being completely immature here but . . . when he texted he hoped you would find a big one to ride, weren’t you tempted to answer something like ” that would be nice for a change” or “guess that immediately disqualifies you”?

    Obviously, I haven’t crept up on meh yet. My bad.

  • I don’t think anyone “owes” anyone else forgiveness. If someone hurts me or I hurt someone else, not being forgiven is a risk that they/I take. I think the offender, by their actions, sets into motion a chain events they can’t undo or control, although they sure try (e.g. shaming, blaming, demanding, and expecting things to “just go back to the way they were”).

    Besides, forgiveness isn’t restoration or reconciliation. I can forgive someone and still decide that I want nothing to do with them…they can get forgiveness from me but still not get these other two things (which I suspect is what they are really after..”as if it never happened”).

  • Notre Dame, the cathedral in Paris ? Is she Quasimodo,the hunchback ? Dump this “salaud” for good-you deserve better !

  • Absolute textbook disordered response. When you didn’t fall for his “charm,” he cycled into rage. The charm is fake, the rage, however, is real. The insults and hurtful comments are how he REALLY feels about you. Keep him blocked in every way possible. And thank God you are away from him now.

  • Ugh, these losers are all the same. My cheater is angry at ME. It never ceases to amaze me how cheaters can feel victimized when you decide you don’t want them in your life. They hate losing that control and so you feel their wrath. Losers. Ignore. Block. Delete. Send the email/text with those abusive comments to your lawyer. Eventually my loser ex gave up on trying to create any drama. Don’t get me wrong, he’d like to but I think he’s found my lack of response a real bummer. He creates drama in his little circle of loser friends and unfortunate girlfriend.

    SO glad he’s gone. The peace is lovely.

    • thensome, I had the same experience!

      I find out about my X’s affair, and he claimed to be the one most traumatized.

      We go to the MC to divorce with dignity, he says he is there to help me deal with my trust issues… Nothing related to his 13+ month long affair behind my back of course…

      He claims to want for the two of us to put our kiddo first as co-parents and then forces our kiddo to spend her custody time with his girltress who moved in 4 months post-separation…

      I tell people I am divorcing him because of his adultery, he says I am vilifying him…

      He claims he had to start his affair because I was devoting too much time and energy to my building my home-based business after I spent a decade moving around the country to support his career growth…

      The only way to stop being dragged in that mud was to exit the pit… Thank Goodness for divorce papers!

  • Yep, after all he put me through, I am incapable of forgiveness,,,,,,”Fuck you, fuck your mother and FUCK liver and onions, too!”

  • Butterbean,
    I am late reading today’s posts.
    You, sweet lady have a heart of gold, up in the middle of the night baking a home made quiche for your neighbour who is going through cancer treatment. I can imagine her face when you presented her with this thoughtful gift. A gift from your heart. My dear Mom always said the best gifts are homemade gifts. They come from the heart!
    You are a giver, a rare find these days when everyone is so busy rushing and not finding the time to reach out to bring sunshine to an unfortunate person’s day.
    Cheaters are takers. Your cheater lost a gem in his loss of you!
    I wish you a good night’s sleep and a happy day tomorrow!

    • That is so kind of you. Cheaters are takers. I don’t know why…but I am slowly realizing he truly did lose something. Me.

      Your post made me so happy. Thank you so much for your wonderful words. ?

  • Hey, Butterbean!! Your quiches sound great–how about divulging the recipe???

    • SURE!

      I do everything by eyeballing it. So, grate about 2 cups of white sharp cheddar cheese. Sauté about 1/2 cup of onions and 3/4 cup broccoli in real butter. Mix up six eggs with heavy cream, about 1/2 cup. Add salt and dash of red pepper flakes. Set aside.

      Add your cooked veg & scrape the butter and the little remnants of crispy onions to your egg mixture. Get a wisk and mix it all together. Pour into a flaky pie crust and put in a 325 oven for about 45 minutes. Knife in centre should come out clean.
      It is SO savory and delicious. The top will be crispy brown.

      Also know that this neighbor HAS BLADDER CANCER and has been kind enough to listen to me hyperventilate about Scuzzy. She is also 94, or older and went through real segregation….like…You can’t use this bathroom.

      She is the one who told me: You need to write that Huzzy a thank you note for taking that fool off your hands!
      (about the OW)

      • Love, “You need to write that huzzy a letter….” I do sometimes fantasize about sending the new (older!lol) Mrs. a thank you note, I’d include the news clippings (one waxing poetic about me and the next talking about his true love–dated three weeks apart) and the HIV test. A pic of her future to be sure. I do miss some things about my old life, I rocked it and deserved better (my house, my community, my job, my friends) but my life is truly wonderful without Mr. Disordered in it, so No Contact is best. I made so many excuses for crap behavior..his ACTIONS (his mean comments, his superior attitude, his spending, his controlling unaffectionate personality) said it all, that is WHO HE IS, and they still do. These people grow worse when life becomes difficult (read normal). I can’t imagine he’s changed either, the kids say he is even more crazy now, but he’s always been a great actor. Truth is, I know he will blow it all up again. ?

  • “You’re not capable of forgiveness.”

    “Forgiveness” does not mean “not learning from your mistakes and continuing to play Charlie Brown hoping that this time your Lucy-ex will change.” Nor does it mean “swallowing down my valid hurt and anger at being cheated on because my cheating ex finds it inconvenient to be reminded of the results of his actions.”

    “You’re damaged goods. Damaged since childhood.”

    Well then why are you chasing me if I’m so damaged? Also, while being betrayed by an ex probably does some damage, going back to would just make it worse, so that’s a further argument for staying away.

    “There aren’t enough years in a lifetime to gain your trust back.”

    Again with the Charlie Brown situation. Once someone has proven themselves untrustworthy, you’re not obligated to keep letting them betray you just because they want more chances.

    “You’re a man-hater; a woman scorned.”

    All men =/= my ex. The fact that I’m not interested in my scumbucket ex says nothing about my opinion on men in general – it just means I’m not interested in getting back together with my cheating ex.

    “Good luck finding someone at your age. And good luck with your health problems too.”

    Thanks. Good luck finding someone who will put up with you being a cheating asshole who always tries to crawl back to his ex and then yells abuse at her for not taking him back.

    “Hope you find a big one to ride, that’s all you really need to settle you down a little.”

    Well that would certainly explain why I was so “unsettled” when we were together, wouldn’t it? Also, believe it or not, dick ain’t exactly scarce or hard to come by. You can even buy mechanical ones at the store in your preferred color and size – they also vibrate. What’s next, “hope you find somewhere that sells peppermint chewing gum?” “Hope you can find a Starbucks in Seattle?”

    “I’m going younger, she works at Notre Dame. Want to hear about our adventures? You know you’re curious.”

    And you’re already trying to cheat on her by crawling back to me? Wow. You sure changed your cheating ways and earned that trust and extra chance you were begging for. Yup, nothing but loyalty and honesty from you! How did I ever let such a steadfast prince go? What was I thinking? She’s so lucky to have you! And you’re apparently so happy with her that you’re trying to get back together with me. Sounds great!

    P.S. “Adventures?” What, are you going to Narnia?

  • “I hope he finds a big one to ride, up his ass, in jail, after he’s violated your Protection From Abuse order.”

    Mic drop, CL…. You nailed it (no pun intended but, seriously, your response was absolutely apropos – he deserves that kind of fate). The guy is an ignorant fuckwad. I hope Micha permanently deleted him from her life.

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