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Dear Chump Lady, I didn’t just discover cheating — he’s a criminal too

Dear Chump Lady,

Any advice (beyond the obvious lawyering up) about the following scenario (which maybe isn’t all that uncommon, judging from my attorney’s reaction):

My big D-day wasn’t when I discovered the latest infidelity, (there have been several of those over the years, which caused heartache but not surprise — he cheated when we were dating even before our 25 marriage, so I accepted those as “my-stupid”, since I married him anyway). My D-day was when Genius himself proudly showed me that the reason he could afford all those vacations, even though our bank account was dwindling, was that he had two suitcases full of cash in a home safe (that’s right, two steel suitcases full of 100 dollar bills, like in the drug dealer movies!)

I think he was totally floored when my reaction was horror and “Where the fuck did you get this money?” (he’s a psychiatrist), instead of “Wow, brilliant idea!” That’s a narcissist for you. Anyway, all he would tell me is, “Some of my patients pay in cash.” He denied selling prescriptions (and I do think he’s too danger-avoidant for that, but who knows). Long story short, I’m to assume that felony tax evasion is probably the least serious source of the money. He then swore, “Oh yes, of course, I do plan to declare all this…” I believed this hopium for a few months, until I found a women’s vibrator in his stuff (not mine) along with several prescription pill bottles written BY him FOR another woman, but which HE was apparently taking (no opiates, but Adderall and valium). So to the divorce attorney I secretly went, pronto!!

I did a little detective work before the big serve, and found out he’s not only making about 100 grand more a year (from his booking schedule) than he’s been declaring to the IRS for the last 3 years, but he’s : 1.) fucking a yet different patient, who is a bona fide professional Nevada hooker, 2.) getting gigs for her with his men’s organization (maybe he’s actually pimping her, and that’s where the money came from??), and 3.) taking her on vacations, etc. (I don’t know if he pays extra for the sex or he’s “pick me’d” her into giving him freebies). It looks like from his email records that she was actually a real patient whose family thought she was “out of control and should be hospitalized” that he exploited for his own gain — and that she might actually be “in love” with him…

So, we have a forensic accountant working on it now. I’d just love to see the sucker not only lose his medical license, but go to jail, too (my attorney tells me that “Innocent Spouse Relief” protections should charge any tax penalties and fines just to his half). Problem is, if he’s not working, there goes my spousal support… I want my settlement to be the house, because I bet Genius’s karma will come for him sooner rather than later, and then he might have neither a medical license nor any other assets left.

So I’m wondering if anyone has advice for chumps like me, who find out that their sociopath spouse did way worse shit (bona fide crime wise) than even the cheating.

Regards,

Chickynot

Dear Chickynot,

Please start assuming right this minute that he’s going to jail — and I hope you’re the person who puts him there. And that you gave every ounce of evidence to your attorney and the forensic account, and you drop the bomb to law enforcement after you secure the house. Let the lawyers guide how you play this.

I can’t help but read your letter this way — that for years you knew of his cheating, but you looked the other way. Did he promise to change? Recommit to the marriage? Do you have kids? And then how many D-Days over 25 years? You didn’t leave him. When you discover, OMG, he’s a criminal — then you rightly lawyer up. But worry, “Problem is, if he’s not working, there goes my spousal support.

Jesus Christ, this man is sexually TRAFFICKING one of his PATIENTS! He’s a monster! WE DO NOT WANT HIM TO BE WORKING! We want him in a 6×8″ cell in a federal penitentiary for life. With Bruno, a thuggish guy with neck tattoos who had a bad experience with therapists once.

Chickynot, this is bigger than you. More victims than you. Please continue to get yourself out of this situation safely, but do not hesitate to lower the boom of legal consequences beyond divorce. This guy needs to be reported to the police and his ethics board. Not out of a sense of revenge, but out of duty to your fellow human beings.

Thank you for not accepting his criminality. Sounds like you’re navigating the legal waters well. Now about that infidleity.

I accepted those as “my-stupid”, since I married him anyway.

It’s not, and has never been your stupid. He’s the Stupid. The question to ask yourself is “Why was a relationship with Stupid acceptable to me?”

I can’t untangle that skein,  but you must. Did you think his cheating was your fault? Or a one-time pass is a lifetime pass? Or did you like the lifestyle too much of being a doctor’s wife to leave him? Answering the hard questions helps fix the picker. When you find yourself wondering Why Is He This Person? redirect your attention back to your own values, desires, and boundaries.

So I’m wondering if anyone has advice for chumps like me, who find out that their sociopath spouse did way worse shit (bona fide crime wise) than even the cheating.

I don’t know how large this club is. We’ll find out today in the comments. I do tell chumps, when you’re dealing with the disordered, to never think “Oh they would NEVER…” (clean out the kid’s college fund, blow the 401K on hookers, have a hidden drug habit…) Judging by my mail… yes they would.

And it bears repeating  — it doesn’t matter what flavor of fucked up it is — petty or criminal fuckedup — get away from it. Leave a cheater, gain a life.

 

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  • Oh yes they will and do, do criminal acts because,well, they are entitled. Mine stole $400000 k of our retirement by convincing me to sign up for massive lines of credit to “build” the business. He kept assuring me he had stock to cover the debt. This was during wreckonciliation. Of course he didn’t. That money represented 20 years of hard labour both in our business and buying and selling real estate. He just didn’t care because hey image was more important than admitting it was time to give up on a failing business. If I had admitted defeat the first time I caught him cheating( with a friend of ours), he would not have had that opportunity. I now feel he did it very purposely in order to punish me for demanding his loyalty and respect. How dare I try to tell him to behave like a decent human being! When they show you they suck, believe it the first time!!

    • Ouch … very familiar territory here.

      I discovered after the implosion that my attempting to hold him accountable over the years (pointing out lies, not letting him rage at the kids, etc.) literally made him the victim in his mind.

      Thus, he needed to punish me … and this is the sole justification for all of the cheating, abuse, hiding money, etc. for more than two decades.

      My brain doesn’t function this way. My worldview is 180 degrees. It never would have occurred to me. I wish like hell it would have.

      • The worst part Jessmom is that he also did that to his kids as they would inherit. They don’t see it at all. My daughter is still his Little’s girl(she’s 28) although she has said she knows she shouldn’t trust her dad.

        • Newlady15, that’s so horrible for you and your daughter. And you are spot-on. The damage to the kids is truly the worst part.

          I have three girls with varying perceptions of their father. The oldest has gone “no contact” with him; the middle daughter is upset with him but can’t quite bring herself to cut contact; and the youngest (just 6) loves him to pieces since she’s too young to understand much of what has happened.

          It’s going to be a long, bumpy road for our kids. With every ounce of my head and heart, I hope (for all of our kids) that having one sane parent will help them find the road to health and happiness.

          • Absolutely right. I caused damage to my kids by staying. I see narcissistic fleas on my daughter. My son was discarded by his dad as an infant and they have very little contact. I mostly raised them alone he just wasn’t around( too busy running his business-or doing whatever with schmoopies I now believe) ((hugs)) my friend keep being the sane parent

    • Thanks everyone.

      Sorry for the long reply; nice to know I’m not alone.

      About the other D-Days post marriage: the first was 6 years in, with 2 small kids — I discovered a personals ad he’d placed, we had a big confrontation, therapy, the whole 9 yards. Swore he’s never actually hooked up with anyone, which I doubted but couldn’t prove, etc. Anyway, spackle, hopium, etc. What happened is that he then replaced the screwing around (that I could detect, anyway) with increasingly heavy drinking/functional alcoholism over the next few years. This resulted in my first divorce lawyer consultation: nice older lady, but probably bad advice — get him to go to rehab, best thing for the kids, etc. Which happened — he showed up at the hospital one day confused; it turns out he was still drunk from the night before — whammo, had (thank God!) to go to state-mandated rehab to save his license. Which I had to pay for with MY savings account, BTW. That was 10 years ago.

      Did I mention that no, I’m not a rich, sassy “doctor’s wife?” I’m a physician myself — a REAL one with REAL ethics, apparently not like STBX — but unfortunately in a specialty that doesn’t pay well. I’ve had a medical practice for the last 30 years (I’m 60). My take home pay, after paying overhead and employees, was at best only 50-60K a year, but with dwindling insurance reimbursements and the fact that I used to see a lot of low income Medicaid patients, by 2010 or so I was actually having to invest my own savings just to keep my practice afloat. So now, no savings left. We were hit really hard financially what with the mandate to put in an electronic records system, the staffing and IT costs, etc., but we’re finally afloat enough that I can make about 45K annually again. (and yes, I have been working really hard over the last 3-4 years with a consultant to cut costs and increase volume — but there are only so many patients I can see a day and still do a good job). The point is, in the part of CA where I live, I could never qualify for a mortgage on even a cardboard box condo with that and just half of our home equity as down payment. I sure don’t want to have to ask for spousal support, but I do need a roof over my head.

      Anyway, back to STBX (I always though that stood for “shitbox”, BTW) and ChickyPoo hooker-patient OW. From what I’ve been able to suss out (all inadmissable in court, per my lawyer, since it comes from “hacked” email — one reason she’s advising me not to report him yet), she was ALREADY a (legal) hooker in the state of NV when she became his patient; it’s just that he’s (smoking gun evidence) getting “referrals” for her and encouraging it. So, if this got reported, she’d just say she’s an adult, she’s a professional sex worker, and her clients are her own business — and since she’s in love with him, probably deny he has anything to do with it. We’re going the forensic accountant route to see if we have more to work with in terms of under reported / missing income that he “dissipated” on her or something else.

      • Dear Dr. Chickynot:

        I think a lot of us do the tightrope walk between justice and support/settlement during a divorce because being able to eat and pay rent is kind of important. I also think it is hard to not only lose a marriage and have a D-Day but also lose a type of lifestyle. I’m not suggesting luxuries necessarily but even basic things like your home or car.

        Having said that, your husband’s behavior is so beyond the pale that even if you get support/a settlement, it isn’t likely to come. He will either dicker it away so you don’t get it through fighting in court, claim he’s broke, or finally getting caught.

        I’m a bit younger than you and did not expressly discover my ex doing illegal activities. But there were enough other odd things going on I didn’t want to be around when they combusted.

        I agree with ChumpLady. Go for innocent spouse relief so it is official that you were not complicit with his bull crap. Cover your own ass. Also, as a physician, I know you have to look out for yourself, but I just feel like there is some sort of ethical duty to report if you know he is abusing patients.

        In another life, before I became Dr. ICBIAC, I worked as healthcare administrator, so I know how difficult it is to run a medical practice. Not as lucrative as people think. You may want to consider other business models or potentially even joining an/other organization. You are a professional woman and have a lot to work with!

        For me, I decided I would have a more dignified life sleeping on the floor with no furniture than being married to my husband minute longer.

        • I agree with CL and Dr. Can’t Believe. My main goal was to get away from my own Dr Crazy with the most protections possible (no tax liability, immunity from any and all future claims, lump sum payout and instruction to never contact me again under threat of restraining order). I paid a lot of money and gave up claims to more so that my attorney could slip a subtle but skillfully crafted ironclad agreement past the other side. So I’ve been able to adjust my lifestyle to fit my current financial position without the fear of wondering when he’s going to rear his ugly head again.

          Freedom is worth the price. And calls to your local police and the IRS tip line are free.

          Careful with the dissipation claim. I spent at least $10k on one at my first attorneys suggestion to have Dr. Crazy produce a convoluted and trumped up set of supporting documents in the 11th hour which the judge accepted. The judge tossed out my entire claim even though only about 75% of it was explained away.

      • Chickynot, I am so sorry about your situation and hope you will continue to move forward through the worst. Coming to ChumpLady was the start of good karma coming your way! Your situation is not unlike the now-public problems of the former USC Medical Dean, who was just last week outed as a drug-using, prostitute exploiting cheater in the L.A. Times. I’m sure his wife is living with similar drama! Run, do not walk to the sane side!
        Cheaters are cheaters. They cheat in every area of their lives. Your false prosperity will take a lot of experts to unravel, but the situation is simply more skeins of fuckedupedness which you do not need to unravel. None of it matters. Get your lawyer and accountant to save what they can for you. The IRS swoops in awfully fast!
        You have a career. You can find support through ChumpLady and through a good therapist. None of the material things matter. You can live on what you earn. Get tested. Hold onto your health and your children. I once lived in “wealthy area” and vacationed at the X’s family beachhouse in “famousbeach.” Yes, I loved it. Yes, but I had to let it go to move on, get divorced, get a life. Go and don’t look back. Don’t risk your health and sanity hoping for the perfect outcome.
        You don’t know all of us in ChumpNation but we get it. We understand completely. We will be here to support you in the upcoming months and years.

      • I also want to clarify that it’s not like I had a “lifestyle” I’m trying to protect (sorry, I had to interrupt my last post to go see patients — must finish the story…) I’ve been basically living like a student for the last 10 years, as was Genius Shitbox, at least when in my sight. That’s because after the expensive doctor rehab (and when the hospital he’d been working for wouldn’t have him back) he decided to change specialties to psychiatry/addiction, meaning years more of training. He stopped drinking, but seems like what he really learned in rehab was, addiction is a lucrative specialty with little overhead (or oversight — patient confidentiality and all, and not needing an office staff to take payments and keep the books). To me and to the IRS, he was a frugal, hard-working, tax-abiding citizen in his new practice — that’s why I started panicking when he started taking vacations and spending down the only savings we had, the proceeds from when we had to sell our original house after the rehab melt down 10 years ago. I didn’t know about the double life (and lifestyle, since I’m still living like a student here) till Breaking Bad D-Day.

        And by the way, from my snooping he did “clean up” from cheating for a few years there, before meeting ChickyPoo — BUT that’s when I discovered that when you took away all the drama (pick-me dance, drinking, etc.) the real person underneath was actually a BORING, opinionated, childish, bombastic asshole as his BASIC PERSONALITY. I had way fallen out of love with him, but was basically hanging-in out of a sense of duty at that point (well, Geez, he’s cleaned up, wouldn’t be right to leave him now, we’ll need to stick together once we get old, etc.). In reality, after the D-Day shock, I was kind of glad he’d finally committed a “divorcable offense” so I’d have an excuse to ditch him.

        His authoritarian-but-petulant toxic parenting style had already driven our oldest kid (they are both early 20’s now) to no-contact him 2 years ago, after a stint in inpatient / outpatient treatment for depression that he managed to blameshift onto her and me (I “let her play video games too much” and “didn’t support” his attempts to discipline the kids for “challenging his authority” — defined as any show of critical thinking). After daughter’s treatment, once when I argued with STBX about this, he told her after I left the room “If you mom and I ever get a divorce, it’s all your fault.” That’s when she went “no-contact unless mom is there”. She’s now doing really well — no relapse of depression, and just finished college. Our youngest went to college in a different city just to avoid dad(and pretty much does not respond to dad’s texts), so he’s doing better now too. Problem is, that’s where ChickyPoo lives and dad’s away office is…

        So, next question — I’ve told the kids we’re divorcing because dad has a girlfriend, no gory details. A friend who’s a family therapist told me it’s best not to rat out the true Darth Vaderiness of their father, just in terms of their own mental health. Is that really true??

        • I believe your family therapist friend is wrong. Especially since your kids are adults. They should receive the details in a matter of fact manner or delivery. Your STBX is a pathological screwball and not telling the kids is not letting them properly arm themselves against their whacko Dad. That would be cruel in my book.

          • You were right to tell them dad had a girlfriend. Otherwise they might blame themselves which is a lot worse. You are strong and will get through this and some day it will be a distant memory.

        • That is a good observation…a cheater will cheat in every part of their life because their thinking process has already made it ok. My cheating fuckwit spent all the 3 kids personal savings accounts . His line of reasoning was it got spent on their education. …oh thanks dad. He also hinted to me after the fact which apparently made me just as guilty. The fact he had complete control over the finances (and told me not to concern myself with the money stuff) was meant to comfort me he was looking after our future. In reality he has decided to leave when the kids finished school and drained all the accounts and remortgaged the house to make sure by the time he left there was zero for me to live on. He even stood over me to make me sign a load of shares over to him a couple of days before he demanded a divorce. The absolute blindness we are in due to cognitive dissonance is what makes hindsight such an elusive thing. Because ge financially abused not only me but continues to with hold and financially blackmail his kids i know its not just me who his hate is directed at . Its anyone who thinks he is not a perfect human being incapable of wrong doing. If i hadnt lived it i would have never believed these people go to these extreme lengths to manage their public image. (I was threatened with a defamation suit in the weeks after he left because i was asking people around him if they thought he was having a breakdown or had a head injury…) they are all totally nuts

      • Oh you’re another one that thought that STBX stood for Shitbox! So that’s what I call the ex on here.

      • I understand where you’re coming from and realize how difficult it is to reveal yourself as the victim of such a situation when you are a well-educated professional. I have a Ph.D. and worked in the field of interpersonal violence and was married to an abusive man. I wanted to reach out for help, but you just can’t do that when your name appears as a co-author on a text about relationship violence, right?? I finally got out and ended up in second marriage with a drug addict/alcoholic who put on one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Discovered criminal record slowly and felt relieved there was “only” emotional and financial abuse, not physical this time. And I lived in shame. I should have known better, right? I hope you have good people working for you. I have very few “friends” left, I had to switch jobs, I lost my house to foreclosure, and I’m starting over financially making the same amount as a flirty 25 year old who recently graduated college, but my daughters are healthy and successful, and I am out of danger now. ((hugs))

  • Small potatoes compared to your situation….

    Took the divorce money ( I am an idiot ) and flew to Vegas with Schmoopie and friends over Christmas.

    Ditched the kids…would not tell anyone where he was going and then made the children keep his secret after giving them souvenir t-shirts.
    Son shows up wearing a Vegas t-shirt one day and breaks down crying because “he” screwed up.

    Waited for 2 months for my divorce decree to arrive so that I could file for income tax. Oh wait – I am not divorced ?!?!

    Jackass gets audited ( 7 years ) and drags me down with him.

    So many flavours of fucked up. All of them. You just got the extra sparkle delux special with nuts sundae version.
    Run Fast!!!

    • I’m sorry, Lucky, and hope you can drag yourself out of the financial mire from cheater.

      Yours is a cautionary tale–get the hell away from these cheaters ASAP, or we become liable for half their messes.

  • Chickynot,

    You need more than a divorce attorney. You’ve got the forensic accountant. You’ll also need a criminal attorney and a good tax attorney. Another thing you need to do is to go see a real therapist, one with compassion and morals, and work through the issues his criminal behavior has created.

    “Problem is, if he’s not working, there goes my spousal support…” Do you want your spousal support to be stacks of hundreds pulled out of a metal suitcase? Could you live with yourself knowing where that money came from? Could you relax on a Caribbean vacation knowing that it’s paid for by some hoodwinked victim whoring herself out to make money that he passes on to you? Consider the notion that your nice house and plush lifestyle for the last few decades has been paid for on the backs of others. I’m sorry if this is harsh, but you need to consider how the source of the money will affect you now that you know about it.

    Why do you think he showed you the money? To show off? No, to control you. To let you know that as long as you kept playing the game, you’d have stacks of hundreds to spend as you want. Unless you come clean, you’re complicit (see a lawyer for exactly what that could mean to you). And ethically, unless you put doling out justice (via the proper authorities) as the first thing on your list, you’re profiting off of his crimes just like he did.

    Look into your heart, and do what you must.

    Hugs. Strength. Peace.
    aeronaut

        • It is very easy and admit it (fun) being self righteous and scolding. We have not walked in her shoes.

          I fell for staggering lies. I had no experience with people who lie so effortlessly. Looking back on my stupidity makes me cringe. I was a fool. But I was in love.

          And don’t be so sure The Doctor will go down. In America, these guys are treated like rock stars. Remember the MD in Baltimore that was killing women and babies- a serial killer? Never hear about that anymore. Wonder why.

          Chicky- it is all about survival now. There is nothing wrong with you being concerned about spousal support. The people (are they related to Arther Dimmesdale? Inspector Javert?) basically chasing you with torches because you are worried about money are of no concern. Try living without it, or getting a job when you can’t operate a mouse. It ain’t easy.

          Remember- he is only going to look out for himself. You must become as ruthless as him. This is the key to getting out of this. Get hard, and throw him under the bus, and then put a Mack Truck on it. Show him no mercy.

          • I don’t think most start out falling for these staggering lies. For me and cheater I think it was a slow build of cheater seeing what he could get away with and me a slow chipping away at my confidence to stand up to him. As he made more and more money, he was bolder and bolder meanwhile I was naive. It all started with little comments that I was such a rule follower and not a risk taker made in a very demeaning way. Gas lighting. I was a risk taker in a positive way. I moved across the country knowing no one at the age of 21. I found a job and an apartment and supported myself and made new friends. Stbx never left home and when he did mommy and daddy gave him the down payment for a house.

            I wasn’t a risk taker in his way- having a need for the next adrenaline rush.

            My parents ,while my mother was narcissistic and detached and my dad catered to this excessively , were honest to a fault and they would never break rules or laws. My dad never cussed, got a speeding ticket, accepted an extra dollar in change etc. stbx would comment that that was bad and you need to live more. He would refer to me as there daughter for this kind of behavior and frugalness.

            They suck you in slowly and suddenly it hits you in the face!

            • I get your point but pleeeeeease just because someone doesnt cuss…I’m from New York curse………..means shit………most of the realest down to earth people I know curse…………though I get it you probably had a covert Narc …those are the worst

              • Oh yes it was a different culture in a waspy midwestern town. Believe me, my parents had their faults and covert narc is true. I just use that to illustrate that he was very judgemental and would diss them in order to isolate me from them and gaslight me.

          • A very good therapist who works with victims of disordered Cluster B men told me “Remember, he is sicker than you are smart.” That kept me focused on saving myself and not the stuff I rightfully deserved. And now I’m completely free.

    • I read a quote that really resonated with me during my divorce. It focusses on the male cheater, but the sentiment definitely applies to both genders:

      Behind every successful man is a good woman. Behind the fall of every successful man is usually another woman.

      For me this was a constant reminder that ex’s shitty life decisions extended far beyond our marriage. He now makes shitty decisions regarding his kids, his friendships, relationships with extended family, his place in the community…. and yes, all personal money dealings and the business he owns as well. We’ve been divorced close to a year now, Schmoopie has moved in, and I continue to observe (from afar) the decline of his business. So far I’m not aware of anything illegal, but I hear and see enough to know that he is both shady and lazy in all areas of his work life. I am so thankful I got out with all of our retirement savings (a more-than-fair trade for the failing business) before he destroyed it all. Never ever ever stay for the money, particularly if there are illegal activities. Connect with lawyers that can help to protect you as much as possible when the law descends on him. His shitty decisions will catch up to him. You don’t want to be around for that. That’s the OW’s problem now.

    • Aeronaut is spot on and maybe it seems harsh, but really it’s some ugly stark naked facts.

      The biggest takeaway here from Aero (in my humble opinion) was this, “Why do you think he showed you the money? To show off? No, to control you.”

      Once he showed you the $ he made you complicit in his criminal activity – just you knowing about it. He’s counting on you to keep your mouth shut.

      Get a criminal atty so you don’t end up in jail because of that sickass fuckwit.

      And, idk but if he starts having regrets about showing you or gets paranoid that you could possibly tell someone? (((Shudder))). I’m so sorry – there’s nothing worse than caring for and loving a fucked up evil asshat as many of us did/do.

      Stay safe and gtfo of there.

      • So true, everything they do goes back to control- it makes me think from now on don’t ask why, just follow the control.

      • I agree, it’s scary that he showed Chicky the money. It puts her in danger IMHO. He has a lot to lose and no morals, so he is a very dangerous man. Be very careful with the forensic accountant and the lawyer’s work. I would pretend to separate amicably for the time being. If possible move far away and don’t let him know where you live. I know it means leaving everything, even the ethical poorly paid medical practice.
        That man is a psychiatrist, a liar, a criminal, a master manipulator, with dodgy connections. The further away she is from him, the better, and this comes before getting a share of the assets, let alone support.
        Cheated spouses get murdered by cheaters and/or APs. It happens, especially if there’s a lot of money at stake, the cheater is already a criminal and knows other criminals.

        • Yep, everything is on the down-low for now. Most of what I know is unfortunately not admissible as evidence, because it’s from “hacked” iCal and emails; I’m just waiting for the “official” accountant to do discovery, and then see what I even have to work with. Genius is so conceited he does not even know I know where he keeps his passwords on his computer (well, one of the 2 — unfortunately I don’t have most recent “cloud” one). I’m just getting as much info as I can while I can, and hiding it at the office.

          • I hope you are using a device he doesn’t know about to post on this site Chickynot. Don’t underestimate him and be careful he doesn’t trace you to this site.

          • Well actually, I have nothing to hide, unlike him. He’s welcome to spy all he wants. Anything really important I call the attorney on the phone / arrange a phone chat.

  • Narkles the Clown was not reporting all of his income. Found that out when my attorney added up all his deposits to his bank account and then realized his income on the tax forms was much different. Of course that does not count the cash he would get for several jobs every year. Narkles The Clown isn’t dealing with people so I don’t have that worry, but please know you are not alone. They are disordered in nearly every part of life.

    Run, and fix yourself!

  • Within a few days of my x confessing his affair I started to look into how he was able to pay for meals out, trips, secret hotels, etc. because not one penny was missing from our personal or business accounts. Turns out he was doing a large amount of work under the table for cash to not only fund the affair but to divert so much income from the business that the judge said it was worthless at the time of the divorce so he didn’t have to pay me my share of it. The only thing the judge could do was award him the business and absolve me from any of the fallout (debt collectors, lawsuits and the IRS) from his poor choices. It’s amazing to me the lengths he went to make sure I ended up with nothing; apparently breaking the law meant nothing to him, but he was so surprised by the consequences.

    • So funny when your experience sounds identical to someone else’s.

      We had a thriving business that we ran together. We were making about $250k profit/yr after all expenses, and after paying us both a decent yearly salary.

      But because of a good accountant and the way businesses are valued where I was living, based on what you could sell them for as a going concern, he managed to convince the courts the business was worth zero.

      I was a director of the company. I dumped my salary i was making from another job in the early days of our marriage into this business to get it going. He threatened me in order to force me in to continuing to do all the books for the company even after d-day, yet I didn’t get a penny out of the business when it came to splitting finances, because it was “losing money”. Ugh.

      Again, It’s like we were married to the same guy.

      • Danceswithmeh,
        Sounds like our ex’s are related! Mine worked so hard to make the business look worthless that he actually succeeded in making it worthless…over 100k in debt, a lawsuit from our union and the IRS to worry about. The only offers to settle before our divorce trial involved me signing a quit claim deed to the house (our only remaining asset) so that he could TRY to get a loan to pay me off…..but he had just destroyed his source of income to qualify for a loan, so I’d have been signing over my interest in the house with no hope of settlement. When I refused to sign the quit claim deed, he got angry and as revenge sabotaged the sale of the house by secretly telling the real estate agent not to actively market it (as we would be settling and he’d be keeping the house) and by falsely stating on the disclosure forms shown to potential buyers that the foundation was cracked and the house was sliding off it. In the end it took almost nine months to sell the house which resulted in me losing all of the money I stood to gain. When everything was settled, I had $17.45 left to my name and the support of two special needs young adults and having to start over at 50 after being a SAHM for years. It’s been almost a year and a half and I have to shake my head sometimes…he actually destroyed everything we had worked over 20 years for just to punish me. That’s messed up. Life has been really hard…but I’d rather be doing this and be free and happy than be married to him for one more day.

        • Wow! He sucks. I am amazed every day that these assholes can get away with this shit and the courts stick to the splitting everything evenly (even when one side destroys assets). The injustice of it is worse than the adultery.

  • Wow…I thought it was something that my cheater (a military purchaser) was fucking the sales rep for the company who was supposed to be selling Uncle Sam crap.

    This problem is above my pay grade but I reiterate CLs warning to not put any stock in the “Well they will never______” because they may very well do just that thing. This gal needs to get herself somewhere safe…and she needs to get her half NOW.

    • I was going to comment on the “Well they will never______” line as well.

      They will.

      There have been 5 prominent professors in my X’s field of expertise to make national headlines for sexual harassment of students under their tutelage. Never in a million years would I have believed he could be a predator of the same ilk. He was, as my post-divorce sleuthing uncovered.

      Do not underestimate the evil which they will do.

      • My ex collaborated with and hung around a PhD psychopath at work. This tool was playing monkey with grad students and employees. My ex would complain about how much crazy making this guy inflicted in the workplace but he continued to collaborate with him ‘because he was brilliant’. Later it was determined this tool was falsifying stuff too.

        I have grown so much with CL & CN. Trust that they suck and it’s a character issue that likely spills out in other areas reverberates in my head. The psycopath colleague falsifying results and causing mayhem at work. My ex hanging around someone like this.

        My ex has been passed over for promotions and had a sadz many a times about it. Now I know others saw what I didn’t.

        I can never thank CL & CN for all of the help over this past year. I’m hoping to one day fix my picker. All of these lessons help me call bullshit in all areas of my life, not only dealing with a serial cheater.

        • A percentage of humans are psychopaths; I’ve heard from 10-20%, but who knows? These are always people that think rules of all sorts don’t apply to them. Some are very selective about what rules to break, when and for what reasons. They may be content cheating the IRS or cheating on their spouse, or skimming money off the top of the football concession stand at the local HS. Others are wide-ranging con artists, grifters, and thieves who victimize anyone and everyone. Others have very particular interest in using power over other people and find avenues like teaching, coaching, counseling, management, social work, or law enforcement to get contact with and power over people. They can be anywhere but are not hard to spot once you learn to recogniz them.

          • I agree…There are some folks who wont break certain rules but others are a free-for-all. Nowdeadcheater had a very responsible job in the military and even the hint of scandal woudl have taken down the whole command. That didnt stop him from cheating on his wife. He would have never stolen from the govt but he was ok screwing a vendor. I think he was an 80% rule follower but most of the rule he broke involved me. I was the dump, the shitpile he thought God gave him to make life function. I dont think that God was really ok with how he treated me.

  • This makes me so relieved that I was never financially involved with my cheaters. Chick, you’re kicking so much ass right now- DON’T STOP.

  • Amazing.

    Chikynot, keep your head high and realize that you don’t need this guy. Neither does society overall.

    I don’t have any “cheating was just the tip of the iceberg” experience to share, however. My ex was both a cheater and an OW, but she wasn’t engaged in tax avoidance (frankly, she was too ignorant in that arena to allow for it).

    CL’s advice to not think, “Oh, they would NEVER” is sound, and I recommend you follow it. It saved me several headaches to assume the worst of my wife–especially financially–and then be proven wrong/right on each aspect through the divorce proceedings. Fact is, none of us chumps saw our spouses clearly…including you, even if you saw his cheating.

    Good luck!

  • Aeronaut is right; please, please, PLEASE lawyer up. Your D attorney should be able to help recommend what other type of legal counsel you may need in this scenario. Know why? because they see this shit a lot, and cheating spouses almost always have some other type of problem (financial, criminal, etc.) going on in secret in their lives.

    It will come as a surprise to literally no one in CN that my cheating ew committed so much financially infidelity that, had our marriage been an official licensed business, she’d very likely be in jail for fraud (and I am not exaggerating here).

  • You need to consult and hire several types of attorneys. The IRS didn’t give any credence to my divorce decree when it came to our joint filing. The joint filing was a part of the agreement, but I was not to be held liable. Turned out that the IRS is one of those government entities that can totally invalidate any divorce agreement if large sums of money are involved! I was dumbfounded. I thought I had dodged the bullet and ended up getting screwed anyways. Navigate this one very carefully!

    • Yep…if you signed a joint tax return, you are liable for the years of those returns. And like I said below, if your cheater owned the house with you during the years in question…the IRS will absolutely seize it regardless of it being your asset also…unless you can strike a deal…IR$ loves a good deal because they know that they cant squeeze blood out of a turnip. If they can get more money from you than they can for selling the house on the Court house steps, you may be able to negotiate with them.

    • Yes. I’m not sure what that “innocent spouse” thing was that Chicky noted. Never heard of it.

      My own cheater stole $125k of our joint funds and took it to another county to pay for prostitutes. He snuck a little out at a time. I found all the bank books that proved this. However, the court would not reimburse me for half that money in the settlement because they said they had no way of knowing I wasn’t aware of it and had given consent at the time!

      He was also committing crimes in relation to “tourist sex”… basically paying for sex with girls in another country… a crime my country takes very seriously and if proven carries a 10-20 year jail sentence.

      Naturally, I was so angry when I found out what he was doing, I wanted to take the ample evidence I had and give it to the federal police.

      My attorney advised against it until the divorce financials were signed, sealed and delivered, along with clauses releasing me from any future indemnity as a result of any dodgy financial arrangements he might have had during the marriage.

      My attorney told me if my ex had to defend himself against such charges, he would likely blow through all our joint assets in order to do so, and I’d end up with nothing.

      If I were Chicky, and I say this in hindsight, I would have taken ALL the cash in those suitcases that I could get my hands on, and moved it to somewhere he couldn’t get at it, and then denied ever seeing any cash, and you had no idea what he was talking about. Chicky will not be able to prove that this cash exists, when her idiot makes it disappear, which he will, you can count on it. So you should make it disappear first.

      You will also probably be forced to sell the house, to defend against the tax evasion charges and, since it is joint property, I wouldn’t put it past the IRS to put a lien on said house to get any back taxes. They dont care if half is yours. While youre still married, he has full access to those assets, and im guessing the IRS can claim a lien on the full value of the asset, until you are divorced and it is divided. If the house ends up entangled in a financial battle with the IRS, it will remain that way until they get their share FIRST.

      Chicky, that means whatever your half of the assets amounts to in the settlement would be minus his wads of cash and minus the house.

      Just because the lawyer says you’ll be protected, don’t believe that until the court puts it in writing. From my experience it may very well not be the case.

        • That’s the first thing I thought too when I read it. Remember how Walter White got worse and worse.

      • My ex committed tax fraud of which I was unaware. I prepared the return myself only I wasn’t privvy to all his secret dealings. The IRS audited us and put a lien on our house and because it was also in my name, I was affected too. I now have a deragatory public record and although my credit has since recovered, it was in shambles for years.

        Get away from this guy and officially divorce him before he takes you down with him.

  • Just so you know…you cannot protect the house from this cheater/criminal. If he owes back taxes, fines or penalties, then prison time is only the beginning of his paying restitution…it is all about the money. The IRS can and will seize the house because it was his asset DURING his crime spree…nothing is off limits to the IRS. You “might” get a portion of it after the Court ordered sale since it is also your marital asset…if it doesn’t sell for too cheap…and the burden of proof that you could not have had ANY knowledge of his criminal activities is totally on YOU. This will be difficult because your standard of living itself should have raised red flags and suspicion. Or, if you are lucky, you “might” be able to strike a deal and PAY the IRS for cheaters share to keep it. All that cash in the suitcases will be seized also.

    This is just ONE of the many reasons why I wanted a divorce from my cheater…it became apparent that his cheating was also financial (tax evasion) and I wanted to get as far away from having to pay for his penalties as possible. I have no doubt that if the IRS audits his business going back to the years that we were married, I will likely lose my home also.

  • Sounds like there’s been dodgy business with scripts for benzos, stimulants etc. The relationships with vulnerable patients are grounds for deregistration – please report him to your medical board or whatever complaints office you have in your state. Psychiatrists like this do more harm than good, please think of the damage he’s doing to others as well as the hurt he’s caused you over the years.

  • I have this with my STBX (except the pimping bit) but on a smaller financial scale. His affairs stayed legal, but I later discovered they kept inching closer and closer to girls 18 years old.

    He owns his own business in addition to a salaried job. He spent 2016 hiding all the business income “legally”. He hired current OW who he lives with (just a paycheck doesn’t really work there). He gives lessons as part of his business and often takes cash. He pays for things, let people give him cash, then writes it all off as an expense constantly. He was able to not only make all business income disappear for the first time in 17 years, but he is reporting a loss. He is dragging out the divorce so he can say that is income is lower for the sole purpose of reducing support payments. We have kids so he is not only trying to cheat me financially, but also the kids.

    He is also an interim bookie. People place bets through him and he takes a cut. This is the one thing I haven’t been able to get evidence for, but considering how much cash he always had in his wallet towards the end (and it wasn’t coming out of our account), I have a feeling this is much bigger than I know.

    Get as much documentation as you can. Divorcing someone like this is a hell unlike any you have known. You thought the infidelities were bad? They were just a small window into their ugly, black souls. There are no moral compasses or a conscience. Remember that it is all about what you can prove. These narcissists think they are invincible and have nothing inside that will keep them from using you as the sacrificial lamb to save themselves.

  • Oh, yes, a large amount of cash in a home safe that was part of his entitlement because he paid too many taxes already. I agree we pay too many taxes but we are all subject to the same laws and this is not the way to change that. I had a code to access this safe until about 4 months before he left he changed that and wouldn’t say why. When he left, the money was still there because he did not yet have a new safe. 5 months after his leaving, son found the override master key and we opened and counted the money. I had lawyers telling me to take the cash or at least half but I just couldn’t do it. I thought my conscience would get the better of me.

    About a month after we accessed the money, Stbx came in when he knew the house was empty and took it. Later, I confronted him and he said the amount was lower than I said. Well son and I counted it and took photos so son knows he is a liar.

    Sometimes I wish I had taken the money because what could he do – go to the authorities and say “feelingit stole a large sum of cash I was able to take out of my business without paying taxes”

    My son occasionally brings up all we could have done with that money: bought cars, boats, paid for his upcoming college. I think yeah but I hope I am better off without blood money on my hands. One of my revenge fantasies is he get caught but it would probably lower his ability to pay me. I guess I am selfish too.

    • Feelingit – it sucks when you have kids and need the support money. It puts us in a position to keep under wraps things that could be used against them. I could have gotten my STBX fired if I had made known some things to his bosses and I could have reported him to the IRS, but each of these things will hurt my kids financially.

      • If the kids want anything, he calls them spoiled. This weekend, I heard from my son that stbx asked him when estranged daughters birthday was in front of family friend ( he damn well knows because the number is the same as mine and he has always called it his lucky number and uses it for everything). Anyway he announces he has to get a chipoltle gift card and family friend responds “oh, does she really love chipotle?” He responds ” that is what the children who neglect me get.” I am told family friend dropped the subject.

        I think his free spending greedy attitude is backed up by the fact he will have a big inheritance from mommy and daddy. I am sure they will bail him out once again. He has convinced them that I am a crazy bitch who abused their golden son for years. Fucktards, the lot of them!

    • Feelingit,
      I read many of your posts. There is not one selfish bone in your body.
      You are an amazing woman, who will one day, be as free as possible from this cheater who is the exact opposite of you.
      Your children are very dear to you and you always put them first.
      Loving, kind, considerate, sane and caring are just a few of your attributes.
      I must add MIGHTY, Feelingit, indeed you are MIGHTY in your long difficult struggle.
      You never give up.
      Your children know your strength. They live with and thru it everyday.

      My heart goes out to all the chumps today dealing with this horrible shot.

      Yes, a jail cell with Bruno, one at a time, won’t take Bruno long!

      • Horrible “shit” not shot,
        (although it is like a shot right thru the heart)
        Bastards the lot of them! Scumbags…..losers….
        I could write forever.

      • Thanks so much for your support peacekeeper. While I feel like your compliments are far more than I deserve, it helps me to see that I haven’t done anything to deserve his horrible treatment. It wasn’t my imagination that nothing I could ever do would be good enough for this narcissistic fucking bastard. I called him that once. It must have really got to him because in an email to my daughter explaining why he abandoned us he said you can only take being called a narcissistic effing bastard so many times before it fucks with your mind. (Once in this case)

        • Feelingit,
          I hear you about calling them something so deserving one time and they turn the table on you, making the whole sorry mess your fault, yep nothing to do with their shit for brains character, nota nota!

          Narcacist, sociopath, mysoginist – a label for what my cheater also is ( I learned this word in an earlier July post by “whodoesthat”) I knew he was this, but not the correct terminology.
          A mysoginist begins life with non attachment to the mother figure, ( in his case given up for adoption by a young woman), this person goes on to harbour unconscious feelings of hate ( such a strong word and that would be for me),toward the next close female in his life. I truly see that this hate is shown to the world in general, even to our two beautiful daughters.
          He has a real shitty, dominant character, nothing, nothing is ever right, good enough or to his liking. No one and nothing. Everything and everyone is lacking to some degree.
          My daughters do not know of his affair but they know, they live with, his horrible character.
          It has made us three closer, we stick like glue. We have through all the years. Many many things we have not shared with him. We have received no emotional support from him.

          In our minds Feelingit we have so many labels for them, one day, maybe in Disney’s Magic Kingdom in the sky we can paintball them on on them with neon lights, for the whole world to see. ?

          Always always keep your sense of humour, breathe. We. Can do this.

          It is not what we are, but what they earn!t!

          • Is that how a misogynist starts? The Traitor’s mother died when he was 2 and she’s been very sick before so I suspect he never had much chance to bond with her (she already had 8 kids and had cancer). He always claimed to be a feminist but I felt he hated women.
            He said I hated men. I didn’t but I didn’t trust them much, except I trusted the Traitor! I never met my father (who was a cheater and I was his daughter with one of the OW). That would mean the Traitor was probably right about me too, I had the same failed attachment to my opposite sex parent and I am a misoandrist (?).

            • Ah kiwichump,
              It is so sad, in that, in our life, we have to be aware of such words. We are straddled with them and with trying to learn their whole meaning.
              The cheater’s character speaks volumes of just what these horrible words mean. They are spelled out before our very eyes.

              I am so sorry kiwichump.
              I send you Chump Sister love and many hugs!

              Xxxxx

              • Seriously, Peacekeeper, I’m interested in your point about how misogyny starts and whether the reverse is true about someone like me. Even the Traitor may have been right about some things. So I threw the question out there, would be interested to hear what other think. Don’t want to highjack the thread so if others are interested, shift it to the forum. Cheers.
                Hugs to you too, Peacekeeper.

              • Kiwichump,
                Sorry, for not being techy,
                but how do I switch to the forums for future communication?

              • Peacekeeper–in the top Right corner of the main CL page, you’ll see a Forums button. Click on it and register (account password will appear in your email). Most of the advice and support is dished out in the Private: General forums, though there are other forum categories for Chump Meetups, Book recommendations, etc.

                You will be a wonderful addition to the forums!

    • WOW why on earth wouldn’t you think you had not earned the money? Half of it was yours, no ifs or buts about it. If he cheated on taxes a portion of your half would go to pay taxes and a penalty. But half of it is still yours.

  • I didn’t find out the real man I married till I divorced him. I thought it was just sex with neighbors wives but it was much more. One thing was he was signing his dead mothers names on checks. #SS fraud?

    The other things I found out:
    looking through old pictures I found one of my daughter at about 2 years old, bend over so you could see her vagina and anus.
    I found another picture of my other daughter sitting naked on my tread mill at about 2 or younger.
    I found a video of neighbors daughter giving a guy a bj in my house.
    I found encrypted posts all over his files.
    He had an international credit card.

    From what I can gather he video taped kids having sex at my house when our children had parties. We had 42 acres of land and a big house so it was easy to hide this stuff. These kids had no idea they were being recorded.

    I called the ICE unit to come and get my computer and ex caught wind of it and broke into my house while I was out having dinner with my children and wiped it all off my computer so that when ICE returned my computer it didn’t have anything on it.

    I have tried really hard to get him sent to prison for the things he has done and god knows what else he’s done. I feel like I found only the tip of what he is made of.

    He has turned the girls against me with his lies and all. Its like they are still under his control. They are 20 and 21 now.

    I have no idea what this monster is that I married. he seemed to come from a good family. My Dr. says he was abused. He is a well respected Engineer and got a large inheritance so he has plenty of women hanging around him. It just goes to show you that you can not fully ever know someone.

        • He probably will, but sadly it will probably be as a result of continuing to prey on children. The only good news is that he’s now on their radar. The real question is how did the X get wind that you were calling in ICE. The answer may lead to more heartbreak.

          • I was angry and made a post about finding child porn on my computer. ICE couldn’t come out for 1 month after I called them. My girls came out of the blue and wanted to eat dinner with me and we sat and talked for a while.

            I had no idea he had been in my house till they brought my computer back and said there was no child porn on it. I checked my computer when they left and his files and all my children’s pictures were gone from the computer. The children’s pictures are where I found the video of a neighbors girl being filmed.

            I had parked my car outside my house when I left to eat dinner with my girls. He had a key to my car and I had my garage door opener in it so it was easy for him to get in.

            I have had a hard time since the divorce finding out he was sleeping with neighbors I thought were my friends all these years and the fact he seemed to have turned my girls against me in the fact that they don’t respond to calls or texts. that had been the hardest part for me. I missed them badly but to not be able to help them heal from this monster is the worse part.

            • This is a good reminder to make sure any XH or STBX doesn’t have access to your home via garage openers or keys. By the way, new cars often have Bluetooth technology that allow them to synch to garage openers, so it’s a concern if the car Bluetooth is still synched. Be careful! I’m not sure how you would go about changing the garage electronics but it’s worth looking into if you have an integral garage. A simple way is to put a new deadlock on the door between house and garage and use it all the time.

            • There are forensic computer companies who can retrieve things that have been deleted from computers. I might check with one of them. Another chump sent her cheater’s tablet to a place in Austin, and was amazed at what they were able to retrieve.

              • ICE don’t seem to be trying hard to do anything about this! A month before they come out, and no forensic work on the computer?!

              • ICE said they were backed up all the time. I did notice when we were going through the divorce that he took off with the tower? part of the computer. I thought he had something on me.
                I hope one day he screws up and someone official looks at his computer and sends him to prison. it would be interesting to see everything on his computer.
                I was a SAHM and didn’t know a lot about computers. That’s why I questioned why he had encrypted icons on there. I found all this when I was divorced.my computer broke down and I took it in to best buys and had all files transferred onto new computer. I later went back to Best Buys to tell them that they had transferred child porn onto the new computer.
                I talked to an International Lawyer I have known for many years and he said the international credit card was for Bicon.
                I believe XH is into child porn and I had no idea till we were divorced for two years. I found the pictures as I was sitting missing my daughters. I freaked out and made some comments on FB.
                I was in therapy for years on myself having grown up in a dysfunctional home where I went through a lot of abuse. I wanted to be a good mom to my girls. I stayed with my children all the time and rarely had babysitters or felt the kids alone with grandparents.
                I was worn out being with my children all the time and it turns out he was abusing them and turning them against me. I told them growing up all about touching. good touch, bad touch and not to worry if anyone touched them to tell me and I would take care of it.
                Its disgusting how he gets away with anything he does and I pray one day he gets his Karma.

  • My ex was too outwardly respectable to do anything criminal but as a medic,he chaired the ethics board of the hospital while sleeping with two of his co workers concurrently,plus two patients and a secretary.I know for a fact that two of his fuck buddies got promotions in part as a result of his influence.It took a massive amount of cunning deviousness and stone cold sociopathy to run that fucked up puppet show,but he managed it without missing a beat.

  • It’s shocking to discover that you can still be held responsible for the cheaters financial shenanigans long after the divorce is final. I did have one Ace up my sleeve though. I called and told my cheater that I would “out” him to any government agency if asked and he was violating federal laws. As a retired military member he would lose his benefits and retirement if convicted (true, it happens) and I would lose mine also as a beneficiary. I informed him I would pursue other avenues to make up for my loss on his and Schmoopie’s miserable backs whether he did time or not! That was enough for him to clear the problem up with the IRS! Admittedly I went out on a limb threatening him, but I figured it would scare him enough to settle the debt. Luckily it worked for me, but my cheater had Schmoopie’s money to help him out. Otherwise I don’t know what would have happened.

  • Chickynot,

    Please please report this SOB to his licensing board.This piece of excrement is a certifiable abomination to the medical profession. That hooker is damaged goods and he’s exploited rather than treated her. No matter what an addict or convict has done they deserve appropriate medical care. What is he doing with any of his other patients? Is he actually using proper standards of practice? An asshole psychiatrist let loose on vulnerable clients? Does he treat children? OMG!!
    And please get good lawyers and protect yourself and your kids.

  • Your husband is the perfect example of a person who gets away with “small” crimes i.e. serial cheating, but goes on to “bigger and better” crimes i.e. all the rest of them. He is a criminal. You are the wife of a criminal. You need to lawyer up to your eyebrows. You don’t have the skills to uncover his life but the iceberg is going to hit you full force if you don’t protect yourself. He will make sure he is protected and throw you to the wolves.

  • my narcopath cheater has comitted a multitude of financial crimes. He was fired – twice, for embezzling money during the marriage (yes, I should have left him then). He also blew through our 401K funds while an ex parte mutual restraining order was in place. And most dispicable (to me, anyways) is that he manipulated a way to get me to pay for his divorce attorney. I don’t have time to provide details – but basically, his divorce attorney put a lein on our home, which we continued to co-own after the divorce until it was sold. So, when the home finally sold – the proceeds I was expecting were less his lawyer’s payment as well as several thousand dollars that he fell behind when he defaulted on his court ordered portion of the house payments.

  • I don’t know what Jackass is up to now, other than dealing his brothers out of their parents’ home for a fraction of its value. When he was a teenager, he was involved in a felony theft ring. I didn’t know that until I was already in that relationship, but I rationalized that away with he “learned his lesson” when the ring was caught and he got away. He may have stopped doing anything that reckless, but it’s an indicator that he doesn’t see anything wrong with criminal behavior. He sees something wrong with consequences.

    Chickynot, I strongly agree with CL that you need to figure out why you chose to stay with this man? You may not have known about the sexual activity with children but you knew he had money he couldn’t account for. You knew he was going on vacations without you. There was a lot you knew or should have known. The law will take care of him. You’ll get a divorce. But you were in a marriage with a monster. CL’s advice is crucial to making the next 25 different from the last 25: “When you find yourself wondering Why Is He This Person? redirect your attention back to your own values, desires, and boundaries.” What matters now is elevating your own life out of this gutter he’s created.

    Go into this assuming you aren’t getting anything material from the marriage. Rebuild your life around what you can afford to provide yourself. Meanwhile, get into therapy with someone with experience on trauma bonding and being involved with a psychopath.

    • And, Chickynot, please don’t be too attached to things bought with blood money. Preying on psychiatric patients and writing prescriptions to fuel people’s addictions is evil (and I don’t use that in a religious sense). Profits that result from that are tainted.

      If the IRS gets involved, I suspect you will not be able to keep your house. View it as a chance at a new, clean start. Your current house will have all kinds of memories associated with it, and moving to a new abode is a way of breaking free. You will best be able to shed the emotional, legal, sexual detritus of your marriage with the work of a trauma-based therapist, and by being willing to forego the perks resulting from your STBX’s illegal and disgusting antics.

      • All this dick has to say is, “My wife knew about it” and you become complicit in his dealings.

    • Oops, Chickynot, I was confusing your criminal X with another poster’s. Yours has the prostitute!!! AGHHH!!

  • Mine hadn’t paid taxes in three years found that out after we were married and went to do taxes. He also took unemployment while he was working which is fraud. When he would be laid off in winters there was no money I worked but it didn’t cover everything so I charged up my credit card and have that debt. I waited for two years while he tried to figure out the unemployment mess turns out he knew the whole time.

  • Start protecting yourself first by discussing this with a criminal lawyer. Speak to all the top ones in your area. He will not be able to hire anyone you consult with down the road.

    Do this prior to filing. He/she will be able to get the ball rolling and advise you how to proceed. I would suggest having this attorney guide you through the process of exposing him and discuss nothing with anyone without your layer present. This is a sinking ship and you don’t want to go down with it.

  • Chickynot,

    I’m in a sort of similar situation. I have been attempting to negotiate a settlement with my STBX. In the process of accumulating information for my lawyer, I discovered cold, hard, and damning evidence with regard to a government contract he worked on. While my lawyer knows, in general, that I have damaging material, he has asked me not to share it with him. Evidently, this would make him an accessory. When I asked him if that meant I was an accessory, too, he said that I was protected by spousal privilege.

    Initially, I was thrilled at having something I could hold over STBX’s head during the negotiation. I quickly learned that there is a fine line between blackmail and a simple statement of facts (because right now my lawyer proofreads most things before I send them to STBX).

    I have also been told that this is the time to play “the long game.” STBX in prison is not STBX who is paying alimony, child support, etc. Sadly, at least in my state, there is no way to have a trustee appointed to manage his financial affairs if he ends up incarcerated, so using this material ultimately will hurt my daughter and me.

    It has become clear, recently, that a few thousand dollars one way or the other are not worth my health or sanity. And, I am very close to instructing my lawyer to just file. Because this is a fault state, STBX will be charged with desertion, adultery, and cruelty (emotional harm). My guess is that once that is entered into the public record, his security investigator will be notified – the government takes it pretty seriously when cleared personnel commit adultery. Whatever that investigation turns up is really only “natural consequences” of STBX’s actions (he will somehow find a way to blame me for it, anyway).

    The “long game” now involves getting as much up front as possible before the bomb drops.

    Of course, the bomb may never drop. STBX has a way of wriggling out of dodgy situations. And if it never drops, I will have left things on the table that I could have gotten.

    Any course of action I choose has an Opportunity Cost. At this point, the decisions have to be made in my daughter’s best interest and in my best interest. Period.

    Sorry there’s no clear advice here. Divorce sucks. Adultery sucks. Narcissists suck.

  • Protect yourself and get away from this psycho~!
    He’s going down and like the titanic, drag everything close to him underwater with him.

  • The other thing you are assuming is that the money is real. I wouldn’t be surprised if its counterfeit. Most clients pay through their insurance not with cash.

    My biggest concern is your safety. He’s someone’s pawn in my opinion and disposable to those he’s involved with in his other life. As with infidelity, what you’ve uncovered is the tip of the iceberg. Get the fuck out and away from this monster immediately. There are no assets worth sacrificing your life.

  • My lovely ex forged my signature on deeds for his family business, turned around and used that property for collateral for a multimillion dollar loan, which he also forged my signature on.

    After I was interviewed by the FBI, because it was a federal crime; the bank decided not to prosecute, because he was making the payments. Now enough time has passed he cannot be charged if he stops making payments. I just don’t understand how these psychos keep getting away with things.

    Another shit sandwich I had to eat.

    • I had an XH who signed my name to the income tax refund check and who “sold” a property without my signature. That was back in my youth but goes to show when they cheat in one way, they are likely cheating in another.

  • First, kudos to you for having the integrity and decency to call him what he is … a criminal. This is really difficult stuff to navigate in the moment, particularly when dealing with intense pain (discovering yet another affair will cause that). And, as our cheaters know, it’s often easier to take the path of least resistance. But you didn’t. You called him out and took action. That is mighty.

    Second, I can commiserate to a degree. While I haven’t found anything quite “illegal” yet, I did discover that my STBX was spending at least three hours a day watching porn while at work. This, to me, is stealing company money. I’m quite certain they weren’t paying him to indulge in sexual fantasies. (I informed the company — which has since started monitoring computer usage.)

    There was a time (after a serious medical crisis in the family that was not covered by insurance) when we were having trouble even buying groceries and were relying on friends and family far more than I was comfortable with. During that time, I scrambled to try to figure out how to fix the situation–couldn’t sleep, ate bare minimum (to save the food for our kids), etc. What was my STBX doing during this time? He SAID he was also stressed and appeared to be trying to help figure out the situation. All lies. I later discovered my STBX had been skimming money from his checks and treating himself to fast food, video games, CDs, and heavens knows what else during this time.

    My point is that the sense of entitlement with serial cheaters is not just about sex … it’s not just about relationships; it’s a core trait in them that impacts every facet of his/her behavior. This entitlement includes a horrendous, all-encompassing justification for behavior that is harmful to others. Some will commit crimes, some won’t — but instead, for example, they will bully and manipulate everyone from their own kids to coworkers or employees.

    I’m so sorry that your STBX chose the criminal route. It’s insanely unjust that you have to deal with his crappy decisions. But, since you have to … I’m so glad you have the strength of your principles to carry with you.

    Sending all my best as you navigate through this mess.

    Take Care,
    Jess’s Mom

    • The entitlement, yes. We were working with a financial manager to get a hold of our active finances, retirement, etc. and he’s taking cash out for his hooker habit all the while. It is wired into them to take care of themselves first. When it turns criminal (and you won’t be sure how deep the rabbit hole goes), you really do need to protect yourself first and foremost.

      • >>”When it turns criminal (and you won’t be sure how deep the rabbit hole goes), you really do need to protect yourself first and foremost.”

        Well stated.

        It is one heck of a hard lesson for Chumps so accustomed to protecting everyone else first. Regardless, it’s essential.

        • Boy, JesssMom, the shift from taking care of everyone else to looking after your own interests is such an important change for chumps to make. You can’t protect your kids if you aren’t looking out for your 1/2 of the marital assets. And that needs to start, ideally, before a couple gets married.

          And reading this post and the replies makes me wonder if Chumps who have experienced sexual and emotional infidelity would be better off severing their finances for tax purposed. You pay a penalty for married filing singly but you wouldn’t be signing a tax return that is fraudulent. The whole discussion raises a major downside to attempting reconciliation while living with a cheater. There is just so much opportunity for financial fraud and general shenanigans with money. Until you know the whole story about what a cheater is up to, you are always going to be at risk.

          • I agree LAJ, completely separate finances if ever trying wreckonciliation. Should be in a post DDay post-nup.

  • Aeronaut is spot on. Find a good tax attorney now. For any chump in this situation, know that if fraud is involved the IRS is unlimited in the number of years they can go back. You can be held liable for all of the debt. They go after the person that has the ability to pay. Innocent spouse relief is your only safety and you’re going to need a great attorney to get it. Don’t hesitate because the IRS does not play nice. Just another shit sandwich being served up on a platter for the chump!

  • I was awarded 45k of a 401k. There had to be separate paperwork done by a separate atty that I hired (he was supposed to pay half, we needed a QUADRO, he’s a firefighter) but to not deal with him I just paid the atty. He was going to make me take him back to court for the QUADRO fee and it just wasn’t worth it.
    I paid the atty, and when he went to get it with the order……GONE!
    He can buy years served military time towards earlier retirement with the fire district and used my portion of the settlement to do so.
    Back to the atty we go…
    Then, he set our daughter up with his bank to get her first car loan and agreed to co sign. When she went to sell the car she learned that the loan amount far exceeded the price of the car. He adjusted the amount so he could take extra cash to move in with his AP. Upon discovery, he was confronted that he had to pay the part he took, but
    now she’s stuck with the car till he pays off his part of the loan.
    It’s not human trafficking, but I believe these shady fuckers will do as much as they think they can get away with.
    I put NOTHING past my ex. This is yet another example of why no contact is so important…..they are truly disordered.

  • I found out after I threw my husband out (he went back to his AP) that she is a paid escort with a drug arrest record for ketamine possession in the last year. She plead guilty to a lesser charge. Her online escort ad has half naked pics of her and matches her mugshot pics, so I know it’s her. My husband is living with her now and fell “in love” with her and can’t help his feelings ?.

    This all just happened when she called me 5 weeks ago to tell me they have been seeing each other again. He wants to move our 8 year old son in with them when it is his time sharing time ASAP and lie to him that they are just friends for the time being. This would be disturbing even if she was an angel – a child should not have to live with an AP 5 weeks after their father leaves. I lawyered up and am bringing my lawyer to our mediation tomorrow. I am seeking full time sharing with him only having visitation/no overnights and cannot introduce our son to his AP. He will be blindsided tomorrow because he doesn’t know I know. He has lost his mind – was a good husband/father for 15 of 16 years before all this happened.

    He has admitted to trying coke and ecstasy with her when they were together the first time, and I know he started buying drugs for his friends on the black web for a profit. So if he doesn’t agree to my terms at mediation about our son, I will be forced to testify at trial about his drug use and drug business. I have to do everything I can to protect my son from the destructive path he’s chosen. This concerns me though because he could lose his job/we will lose alimony and child support.

    What you are going through is a very difficult situation. I am glad that you are getting away from him! I would report him to the authorities so he can’t hurt anyone else. Sending hugs!

    • Wow, is that a disturbing story. But you are certainly on top of it.

      I wonder how he kept the urge for drugs and escort action under wraps for 15 years.

      • Good question. I really don’t understand. It’s like he flipped a switch and an alien invaded his body. I’m not sure if he’s cluster b and he kept it under wraps or if he just has some other mental problem. I am praying he does the right thing tomorrow for our son. Not looking forward to mediation. Just want this all to be done! Thank you!

  • My ex is an alcoholic who got fired from every job he ever had. 5 years ago was the last job. He said he was starting a handy man business with a friend. He even filed a DBA with the county. I found out later (when he was in jail for another DWI and a felony burglary charge!) that he and his friend weren’t handymen, but drug dealers.

    I’m ashamed to say it took me two years after this discovery to finally file on his ass. I finally called a lawyer when I discovered not only the girlfriend, but all the strippers and skanks he was trading weed and coke with for sex.

    It isn’t a big leap from the lies and deception of cheating to lies and deception of criminal behavior to finance their lifestyle.

    Chickynot, put this guy away, and trust me, you need to get an STD test, too.

  • Wow! So much fuckedupness here!

    Chickynot, you’ve had a lot of good advice here. You’re in a legally tricky position. You can’t NOT report him because now that you know, you really do know. At this point, your first goal should be survival. I’m glad to hear you’ve lawyered up and have a forensic accountant. Now you really do need to have the other lawyers on board, as more than one Chump has been held liable for the Cheater’s undeclared income.

    I would also suggest a divorce financial planner. Don’t assume that the house will cover your half of the assets. If you’re like many of us, you’re in a no-fault, 50/50 state. Knowing how to draw the line between assets and debts can help you maximize your financial situation while minimizing your risk of being exposed to the financial fallout over STBX’s criminal actions.

    More important than the lawyers, though, I would urge you to get some very good therapy. What you’ve experienced over the past 25 years is not normal. You stayed with a man even after you knew he was cheating on you and completely disrespecting you. You need to figure out why. Definitely work with someone who’s familiar with trauma bonding.

    Your STBX is in the mental health field, Trust me when I say he knows how to push those buttons to manipulate you, and once you’re in therapy and have some physical and emotional distance, you’ll see you’ve been a long-time victim of emotional abuse. I have a friend who divorced her PhD psychologist narc husband. Prior to the divorce and her therapy, she’d despaired because she thought that DrNarc was the best she could do. Post divorce and therapy, she is a happier, more confident woman. Oh, and she’s got as much dating action as she can handle. And her older child, whom DrNarc was already starting to work on (he woke the child up at night to tell her how crazy mommy was), is also doing better.

    I think that once you see that you have value on your own, you’ll find it easier to get through the divorce. Sure, it’s a financial hit, but given the illegal activity, that hit is going to come sooner or later. Might as well make it sooner and prepare for the hit by working with your team of experts to make the hit happen on your terms rather than waiting for it to happen and getting caught up in the net.

    Please keep us posted!

    • Well, I have described it as breaking my leg jumping off the runaway train in order to escape the plunge into the ravine death, so I understand. As far as therapy and “my picker,” rest assured that in no way do I ever plan to get married again or “pick” anytime soon. I have lots of friends and am much happier single, thank you!

      • piggybacking on what I saw in kb’s post was that we can become SO accustomed to their fuckedupness that when you are really out, you will look back and see all sorts of fuckedupness that was in front of you but you didnt allow yourself to really see it.

        I was with my cheater for 26 years and he cheated for much of it but I thought he only had one affair…the others were well hidden. Whatever the flavor of fuckedupness, we were subject to too much and realizing it after you are out is shocking. Cheater has been dead for 4.5 years and I have known of the worst of his deeds for a little over 2 and Im just now re-equilibrated from the shock.

  • Chicky,

    I can relate to this post. It actually makes me feel sick to my stomach. I, too, am married to a medical doctor who has done far worse than “just” cheating with hookers from craigslist over the past decade. Just a few months ago, I discovered that he is also under reporting income (by about $50-100,000/year). I also discovered that he has been calling in prescriptions under another physician’s name, for himself. The two I found are for Cialis and for an antidepressant. The other physician has no idea. Mine also has so many different bank accounts it is hard to keep track of what and where the money goes and where it comes from. I have been paralyzed with fear also about what opening this can of worms with my attorney will bring, but I have discussed it with my attorney. I am afraid of going down for HIS crimes as well, especially because the IRS does not care…they will take whatever assets are there regardless of who did the crime or even knew of the crime. I wish I only had the cheating to worry about because, like you, that is the least of my problems right now as well. My STBX is also a criminal. He was about to take a two month vacation to Mexico (paid $16,000 for it from the money from the sale of our marital home) but he ended up not going, being talked out of it by me and his therapist who intervened. I wonder, yet don’t even know if I want to know, what else there is. Now he is currently on the path of “change.” Going to 12 step meetings, therapy, trying to convince us all (our three girls and I) how much of a better man he wants to be and can be, but seriously….in my gut I think most of this may be out of fear because he knows that I know these damning things about him and he is scared of jail, of losing everything. I don’t have any advice, just wanted you to know that I am in a very similar situation. I also worry about raising three kids (4, 13, 15) without any help from him financially, especially if I lose what little I have. When we sold our marital home, I bought a very modest house for myself and the kids. We have been separated for two years, divorce pending, but have filed taxes together so I am afraid of what an accountant may find. I used to think ‘He would NEVER do something like that.” Ha! How wrong I was. I thought my STBX kept meticulous books and records, and he did, but they just aren’t the truth. It makes my blood run cold knowing what he has been and is capable of….

    • LOL, butter — Are you sure we’re not married to the same guy with a secret alternate family?? As for rehab — OMG those ASSHOLES at the doctor rehab (Talbott in Atlanta) had me actually go to family week there — where the idea is for their AlAnon branch to BRAINWASH spouses to reconcile with these assholes!! I was about the only one in the spouse group with a ChumpLady “ditch the creep” attitude, which got beaten down as “not helpful” to his effin’ recovery. OMG if I’d have only eaten that bitter poor single mom pill then, I’d at least be through this by now, and my daughter might have been spared 2 serious depression episodes. Get out now. (Download “Get Out Alive” by Three Days Grace and play it over and over again, like I do).

      • Thanks, yeah, that song helps. Good recommendation.

        Clearly there are MANY disordered people out there, all cut from the same cloth. I read another response from you about how you are also a physician and trying to DO THE HONORABLE thing with your practice, follow the rules, comply, etc. I know all about meaningful use, small practices being forced into costly EHR without enough support, etc. (My husband has a small but thriving practice…he fought this and used it as one of many excuses for “needing” to see the hookers because he just couldn’t cope with the added stress from the government meddling….. I am a nurse manager at a Hospice, but just accepted a tenure track assistant professor position at a university. Money is not great, but I need the schedule since I have three kids and am the only “sane” parent who has to arrange my schedule around them. For years, he was “too busy” to leave the office to pick up a sick kid or take a kid somewhere…he could have EASILY blocked off the schedule for half an hour or even a half day…always “too busy.” Then to discover he took PLENTY of long lunches, even FULL DAYS, to explore his fantasy world of hookers and God knows what else. Oh, if I wanted to type all night you would be shocked at what I have put up with, but then, it is probably your story, too. Yet, at the time it was happening, I had no idea what I was putting up with. I got bad advice from a few counselors, even my first lawyer back in 2014 when I discovered he was back to the hookers after “lasting a whole year and a half” (his words….as if he deserved a medal of honor). I wish I had gotten out when I first discovered it, now I am so afraid of imploding my own life and the kids due to HIS DEVIANCE I feel paralyzed. I never had the “comfy doctor’s wife” lifestyle that many thought I had. While he pretended to make much less than he did, he at times had me shopping for generic brand food at Walmart over the “stress” of finances….so discovering his thousands upon thousands spent on HOOKERS and all that went with it was a very bitter pill to swallow indeed. Makes me want to make him pay. Now all he ever says is “I don’t do that anymore. That is the old me.” Said in response to any remark I have about the pain and despair he has caused me and our girls. Meanwhile, I work my tail off at work and at home and he still plays like Peter Pan of the Valley biking, hiking, and whatever else he does. Our older two kids barely speak to him and wouldn’t at all if they were not minors. Only our 4 year old thinks the world of him…because she doesn’t know how he is yet. Maybe his therapy will at least spare here from being treated the way he treated our older two, but it is doubtful. Keep us posted on your journey.

        • And you keep us posted too. As a therapist girlfriend told me back a few years ago when I just knew my marriage was unhappy (but of course I was still reluctantly available for sex, so my marriage wouldn’t “fail”) just because he had turned into a grandiose, bombastic asshole that nobody even wanted to be around, “Hey, this is a no-fault state. You don’t NEED an excuse to leave him; it’s perfectly OK to do that just because you don’t like somebody.” But even so, I’ll repeat that, butterflidreams: you DON”T have to stay married to this loser you don’t love or trust anymore, EVEN IF INDEED he’s cleaned up his act. Perfectly OK to dump him now, and feel zero guilt. I wish all those AlAnon folks ten years ago had never, ever brainwashed me to think otherwise.

  • The DEAN of Medicine at USC just got canned for drug and sex filled parties with students. Let me repeat this the DEAN of Medicine at USC.

    I can’t imagine the pull of fantasy that would implode a lifetime of work. Unimaginable.

    LA Times was tipped.

    What is going on. What the HELL is going on.

    • So I’ve always held this theory, that certain personality traits are attracted to certain vocations. For example, I could never be an “environmental engineer” (a.k.a. trash collector) or a police officer or an astronaut. Not because I am not intelligent or driven, but because I simply have no inner desire to do those things or I have an irrational fear of Earth orbit re-entry and burning up.

      That said. This society SELECTS candidates with certain traits. It’s well known that the psychometric testing done pre-employment is for this very reason. It’s not to “weed out psychos”. It’s to select for a certain personality trait. Take a look at how the BANKING industry actually selected for people who have sociopathic or “flexible moral code” types of individuals. It’s literally littered with sociopaths with no boundaries.

      Banking isn’t the only industry. It’s most of them. Healthcare, not so much. They want the altruistic, self effacing, self sacrificing type. BUT—physicians are exempt from the psychometric testing on job applications. They go through a different type of job verification—it’s called the Ass Kissing Application. Physicians have an innate drive and hypercompetitive nature, stamped into them from undergraduate school—and want that big payday for the years of hard work. There are exceptions, but I was married to a Dr for 12 years, through medical school and beyond.

      I watched our friends with “non medical spouses” dump them when the hard work was over and “trophy wife/husband” was in order. Another entitlement, just like the Jaguar and the McMansion. Big tits, dumb as a post and makes them look good. Out of my ex’s whole class, maybe 3 remained married to the spouse they had during the lean years.

      Doctors are notorious, and well paid. They have the means, motive, and opportunity. Hippocratic Oath? Are you serious? Have you read the news? Medicare fraud, sexually assaulting patients while pt is under sedation….I could go on. I saw drug use like you would not BELIEVE among his classmates and among the attending staff when we graduated.

      This society selects for sociopathic traits. They are driven to do anything, say anything, step on anyone, screw their mothers—in order to succeed. There are far too many people on this Earth and this is how that scenario plays out.

      If someone can find it, there was a mouse/rat research study done where the larger the group of subjects, the more apt they were to fracture into subgroups where one dominated the others—to the point where one group didn’t do any work, just stole from the others who did do the work. I can’t recall the name, but this is how society is being run “these days”. Too many people.

      “Criminals thrive on society’s understanding.” It’s just the truth. It’s not the “fault” of those who want to forgive and forget and move on….but the problem is, when the village doesn’t mete out severe punishment for this type of behavior, and in fact, SELECTS and REWARDS this type of behavior—what happens to those who “forgive”?

      Stop making excuses for this asshole, Chicky. Seriously. What this sounds to me like is you liked the lifestyle until it was starting to impact YOUR security. He started with criminal behavior, and now it’s a problem. Fucking over these women or his kids or his family or anyone else was okay until it was a detriment to YOU.

      I’ve seen this before—and usually, the Look The Other Way Spouse goes down right with the Sociopath. I hope you don’t. I hope you get your head out of your ass and run like your life depended on it. Because it just might.

      Criminality in one area, usually there is a willingness or should I say—lack of aversion to—criminality in another….as in….he might just decide you’re too much trouble and know too much. Be careful. TELL EVERYONE. No matter what your embarrassment level regarding your own duplicity in his cheating might be. Take your lumps and be grateful he didn’t harm you in a very different way.

      • Yes but I do think we need to consider that although they may not have harmed us physically yet, it does not rule out that it still could happen if they perceive that loss of control. Everything builds and as stakes get higher you never know.

      • And even in fields that don’t test for it, the opportunities for predatory behaviors are strong inducement for psychopaths to choose certain fields. It’s not a big surprise that college prof sleep with college students; it’s the only occupation that would put middle-aged, sedentary, married people in contact with college kids with a crush on an authority figure. Lots of people who want to be worshipped go into teaching.

      • Yes, I am telling everyone. and taking pictures too (of what money was still left in the safe the one time it was left unlocked). And once again, I have no “lifestyle.” I live like a student, or at least someone who makes 40K a year. I thought he did too. Stupid me.

        • It does sound as if you’re in a financial pickle, though I’m worried the legal ramifications of your STBX’s actions might be the more ominous. Protect yourself from being associated with his criminal actions as you are doing your best to protect yourself financially. It sounds as if you are used to problem solving, but there is an emotional roller coaster about to come (especially as your H ramps up the ugly, and more of his misdeeds come to light). Sending hugs your way.

  • Mine took pornographic films and pictures of women without their knowledge, including me! Even though he knew, emphatically, that it wasn’t okay with me. He also fucked women he supervised at work, which is a huge violation of the ethics of his profession, as well as parents of his students. He used his work phone and number to Internet date. One of the teachers he was having sex with supplied him with pot, oh, and I found a packet of illegal street -bought pills in his suitcase once. Yeah, they can and DO illegal shit. I’m pretty convinced that if I’d dug further I would have found more.

    • K, my STBX did this to me as well. As of yet I have no hard evidence that he has video recorded anyone else, but my therapist says his ‘activity’ has most likely escalated since I am divorcing him and he’s moved out.
      So, it would be horrible for other women but if he’s doing it I sure hope he’s caught and gets some jail time.

  • Mine withheld income on our tax returns and was caught in an audit just prior to D-day number ?. This time, he shacked up with her (the neighbor) and we were divorced. I filed for innocent spouse relief and was absolved of all but a fraction of the additional tax burden and penalties. Guess What? The IRS denied my petition for relief and they are not obligated to adhere to divorce decrees. Part of the innocent spouse relief process involves talking to the other party (my exN) who stated that I did know about his failure to report income. Did all of my paperwork and reporting matter? Nope! Guess who has been paying? ME! Guess who has yet to pay one red cent????

    • I just read this after my comment posted. I have seen this happen before that’s why I advise tax attorney also. You make a great and enlightened point.

      The irs doesn’t care who they collect from. They will collect regardless

      • So I say: if you are in wreckonciliation, consider filing separate returns. You are living with a liar, after all.

        • Separate returns will not
          work either in California if you reconcile bc it’s a community property state. Your debts are his debts and viceveesa.

          Only filing for divorce w a separate residence gives you some protections under the law for future monetary issues but not prior years

          The only person I know who was actually awarded innocent spouse protections was my own sister, now deceased. Her husband did not efile the return and was so impaired he sent it in without her signature. She had been divorced for two years when the IRS contacted her that the return was being audited

          She really was in innocent bc she didn’t sign or see the return. She was the only one working at that time and bc she hadn’t signed she dodged a huge bullet.

    • Suzanne, YES! The IRS sent the packet for my innocent spouse request to my Ex at his Schmoopie’s condo and guess what? He NEVER filled it out. I was denied my request by the IRS. I think it’s ridiculous for the IRS to do this sort of thing, but apparently they believe your Ex spouse is somehow going to “help” you out of a debt that they know is crushing you! It’s just awful!

  • Hello. I’m sorry you find yourself in this predicament aka cluster as we call it on CN

    I couldn’t read every comment so maybe someone mentioned this

    This will sound harsh but: Don’t forget you signed this tax return and you are responsible for knowing and understanding what you sign bc it’s assumed that you benefited from the lifestyle in someway. Meaning you should have know this lifestyle couldn’t be maintained on the earnings you signed the return attesting to

    Yes there are regulations -innocent and injured spouse, that provide protections providing if you can prove you dis not have knowledge. But
    I would definitely consult a tax attorney in addition to the forensic and tread lightly
    As to who you share your story with.

    It goes without saying that the divorce court audience is allegedly filled w irs agents. I would want to know what your liability is if any with regard to signing this document before I took the word of my marital attorney.

    I would trust my marital attorney but verifiy w someone who is licensed to appear in tax court

    My opinion is that one of the biggest errors you can make is not getting the best advice or representation. Unfortunately your husband is a special case

    Best of luck to you

    • Thank you all. Actually I have not yet signed our 2016 tax forms because, since Genius is lazy and he never has the taxes done on time, it’s routinely only done on extension by our accountant every August (and Breaking Bad day was in late 2016). I will see what I need to do, but definitely will not be signing that thing till the forensic accountant is done.

      • You really need to be extra careful that since it is CPA prepared that it is not efiled without your knowledge. MAny spouses sign for their spouse I would call the CPA and tell them that you want to come and sign the 8879’s (permission to efile ) in person.

        But only after you consult an tax attorney

  • Sorry that you have to go through this. You need to go into survival mode for yourself.
    First things first: Take a big chunk out of his secret stash of cash, hide it. Then go to a divorce attorney. Criminal charges against him are fine, but first make sure your future is secured. Good luck.

    • Unfortunately, it was always locked in a safe I had no combo to(and I think by now he’s got it in ChickyPoo/Wife 2.0’s safe deposit box in another city, from my email snooping). The safe story — I don’t approve of guns, and always told him if I found one, it was going in the ocean. So just to spite me he bought a safe I couldn’t get into, for his shotgun. I had no idea anything ELSE (like money) was in there too!

  • Seeing what the bottom line financially for the OP is, perhaps the best settlement would have been to stay totally quiet, observe the suitcases full of cash, and bide her time until she could screech outta town with the cash in the trunk of the car. He could never have proven theft.

    Oh well, opportunity missed. Now it’s time to do the right thing.

    • See above — can’t get into safe. My estimate — he’s more Anthony Weiner than Scott Peterson, but ABSOLUTELY I have kept it secret from him that I know about his hooker business, that his AP is his patient, etc. He thinks this is just an “amicable divorce” so far, and my attorney has expressly cautioned me against anything that could be construed as “blackmail” with the medical board, etc. — partly for my safety.

  • Chickynot’s story resonates with me with exh#2/evil one.

    He is a convicted felon (prior to meeting him) in another state, lied to me about the circumstances, possibly another state too

    To my knowledge, he committed 5-6 fraudulent claims for financial gain during the years we were married. I found out the truth afterwards, but still haven’t turned him in nor reported him, yet. I did consult with my attorney about them after he left, who took a statement from me, notarized it, and put it in my file for future reference.

    Also, he filed tax returns for years as married filing separately, but used my deductions, telling me that he had filed us together. Imagine my shock and horror when I got a letter from Department of Justice earlier this year about me not filing tax returns for five years…

    Plus, he committed grand theft but overdrawing our account close to $15,000. over the 12 years, but since we were married and it was a joint account, they’ll never prosecute.

    All of these bad acts I feel morally responsible for, not legally, but emotionally and morally, yes.

    People ask me, “Why did you put up with his shit for so long? … Why didn’t you turn him in?” I was a chump. I spackled. I lied to myself, tried to talk myself about his good points…. most of all, I truly didn’t know the truth until it was over. I found out the truth afterwards. God, I was so stupid.

    • I feel hurt and judged when I’m asked how/why my husband was able to get away with whatever. I mean he is your husband. You expect a certain amount of trust and you don’t always dive in thinking the worse. I think it’s victim-blamey when someone asked why you put up with something.

    • Well…a certain family member was married to a tax guy. He began to ask her to sign blank returns, saying he was SO busy doing other people’s taxes that he would do theirs later, if she could just sign here please. We all warned her but of course she knew he would never do anything icky. He is now living with OW, his tax business ‘went under’, she no longer owns a house.

    • Molly you were not stupid. You are just a good person to whom it would never occur that a person can act in the way of your bloody ex. Not stupid at all, just a good person. Sorry you have to deal with this crap.

  • Ugh, I’m just so disgusted reading about these people who not only cheated but did much worse. How complicated that makes the whole divorce process! Just wanted to say that a friend of mine’s ex moved to another state after cashing out his retirement and leaving her penniless, with a terminal disease. She is living on disability and the kindness of friends. Anyway, the judge ruled that he was responsible for all the taxes he hadn’t paid to the IRS, which stopped my friend from behind harassed. He was ordered to pay all outstanding bills. He was ordered to pay maintenance (they were married 35 years). Of course he refused. They tried to garnish his wages, so he quit his job and started working in construction for cash only. Bottom line is she has never gotten a penny from him, but the harassment by bill collectors stopped. Sometimes if these people want to evade responsibility, they just move to another state and it’s much harder to force them to abide by the decree. It’s incredibly unfair.

  • Years ago I had a co-worker and friend who was getting divorced from her cheating husband. She was a hard worker and VERY country. She literally grew up living at the “head of the holler”
    In W. Va. Her husband figured he was so much smarter than her and told her she was just an “old, dumb country girl. Long story short. She hired a very good attorney who asked her to bring in all her bank statements and anything financial she could get her hands on. She then hired a great PI who got pictures of cheater and his adulterous in some compromising positions. Turns out he was fraudulently opening credit accounts in her name for years! He had been buying expensive equipment and getting outrageous amounts of money then was forging her name on the cards and loans! She had no idea! Her attorney appeared to be a low key kind of guy, but in reality it was an act! This guy went straight for the cheaters jugular vein. He tore her Ex a new one in court and she walked away with every asset and cheater got the debt. As she walked by her now Ex outside the courtroom she said to him, “pretty good for a dumb country girl.” I thought her Ex was going to have a seizure right then and there.

  • We don’t do name calling here. Just want to point that out before you post disappears. Here, as on all other internet forums that function well, we adhere to basic rules of civility and decency. Lots of us disagree with each other and CL, but we don’t write abusive posts about each other. Now go away until you can play like a decent adult.

  • They are entitled to do anything they please, legal or not. The Traitor started growing weed in my glasshouse on the farmlet I had when we first got together. I was working 6 days a week, he was looking after the home being a part time dad to his youngest son, sorting out my garden which was a mess. So I didn’t see it until I went into the glasshouse one day and found 6 plants. He had been playing new sheriff in town keeping poachers of my land ( so he claimed) and protecting me. I destroyed them, we had a huge fight, because if he got caught I would be responsible, this was my property and it could have been confiscated. But I spackled over it, he was a loveable plant physiologist, student, pothead, rebelling against the system, blah, blah. He denies this ever happened, I made up the pot plants story apparently.
    Besides this he’s chronically avoided paying child support and student debt by working less or not at all. Not illegal, but totally immoral.
    He dropped out of his PhD in the last year, and since he has told me proudly that he has tried every illegal drug under the sun, and that “everyone” at uni was growing/manufacturing their recreational drugs in the labs, I know understand that “everyone” was him, and that he either jumped before he was pushed out of the botany lab, or he was pushed.

    • Yep, he is entitled all right! Geeze, all those stupid people in his world that are all like him—but not.

  • ^^^ Mods, please delete the above post and this one too, if possible. I was replying to something that got deleted.

  • Hmm, well I don’t think STBX is a criminal as he has never owned a business and we have had a reputable accountant doing our taxes for years. No drugs or pimping or anything like that. Never the less, he’s still an asshole and Shmoopie’s still a bitch. He may not have done anything illegal, but he still has a hypocritical, entitled attitude towards the world. He pays his taxes but believes he shouldn’t have to because he is just paying everybody else’s way while he struggles so, so much. Never mind that we somehow managed to have a higher standard of living than all of those people “living on the dole” and we certainly benefit from government services as well (police, fire, trash pick up, roads, etc). I guess that’s why he felt it was ok to screw me over to make himself feel better. He’s still has an entitlement problem, he just wouldn’t want to tarnish his image as a great upstanding guy (who left his faithful wife of 22 years and forever complicated his relationship to his kids to run off with a selfish self centered slut) by doing something illegal. It might affect his credit rating.

  • Oh wait, I forgot. Adultery is illegal in our state. Too bad the penalties are never enforced and I doubt he is aware of that fact.

  • I thank God I filed and protected myself when I did. If I did not, and went along with his wanting to reconcile the second time, I would have most likely lost the cushion that I now have.

  • These stories don’t surprise me. The evil deeds are totally shocking, yes, but it just goes to prove that a cheater has low, low character! This is how they pull off the whole ‘sex partners on the side’ trick, and smile in your face as they tsk, tsk about other people who cheat. Just so disconnected from who they are, and how they are causing pain. My X still says things to me about some person who was ‘so thoughtless’ or ‘such a jerk’. ?????? Hello? You were a serial cheater, stole stuff from your kids, refused to work because you were sick of that, and lied outrageously. Now you’re going to complain about someone who’s a jerk?

    In his case, one of his parents was the same way, stealing utilities, and shoplifting steaks and things. He grew up with that. I call them Scofflaws, they think they’re slicker than everyone else, and seem to not care, I just don’t get it, that’s no way to live.
    Gonna go drink my tea now, in peace and quiet!

    • FreeWoman, my STBX father was the same. A multi-millionaire yet would steal spoons from the airplane (when they had ‘real’ silverware) and take towels from hotel rooms. Disgusted me.

    • That made me nauseous to read. That poor woman. Why can’t they just do the equivalent of garnishing his wages? It’s insane.

  • Some of you may remember my story from last year. My STBX also commited a crime, albeit a misdemeanor in our state at least. I found he has been secretly videotaping me/us for decades. Since about 2 years into our marriage (which is about the time smaller home video cameras came out).

    I did not file criminal charges because I was in shock for a while and knew he may lose his job.

    I also (in my mad sweep of our house looking for more videos) found stashes of cash all over the house, which I cannot account for anywhere in our accounts. I’m fairly sure he got kickbacks and /or outright stole from his company. I don’t want to say anymore here as our divorce is ongoing.

    Also found evidence on his computer of cheating activities (secret emails, ashleymadison and similar sites).

    As for the video voyeurism, I have two additional civil charges against him in addition to the divorce.

    And get this, this insane narcissist sociopath actually counter-sued me for adultery and CRUELTY.

    And still says he wants for US to go to marriage counseling so we can “each understand the other.”

    He’s a prick of the highest order. I am completely no contact except for our kids.
    I filed almost a year ago and lots of nonsense and bad attorney crap has us still not divorced nor mediation date set.

    With luck a judge will see how disturbed and dangerous he is. I am concerned for other women he may try and secretly tape, and also for any women our sons may have in their lives. I have told them about their dad’s particular perversion and to be careful.

  • Mine fiddled expenses with a work colleague to fund their travel for fuckparties whilst under the guise of working. She thought nothing of it, because the trip had been “approved” by her superiors. They had no idea they were travelling for an affair (and not work), so the idea the approval was fraudulently obtained didn’t occur to her… even though she is a lawyer. She also hid money from me and asked me to fund her lawyers because she had no money. I still wonder what else they did. And, of course, she lied non-stop in the divorce – sadly, the court just accepted her BS (or chose to ignore it and not criticise her) as she is a lawyer.

    If you can cheat and lie to your family, I think you’re capable of lying about anything.

    The good thing is… over time her written lies are starting to show and it is very hard for courts to ignore this for really critical issues.

  • Medical professional here. Please Google the following: “[your state] medical board” and you will find an online form to use to report him to the Board. Please do this to protect other patients from this man. His licensing Board needs to know asap what he is doing and capable of in order to investigate and make sure that he is fit to hold a license (doesn’t sound like it). It is the ethical thing to do for the safety of patients who are his victims.

    • Problem is, the only evidence that I have (at this point) of what he is doing I obtained from hacking his email and business calendar (really this was done because my attorney suggested, before we filed, that if I could get a look at the latter, we’d have some idea if the money had actually come from under the table income, vs something else). I had NO IDEA I’d also find evidence of sex with patients. So, for, now, (her advice and that of other attys. I know) I have to keep this on the down-low, or he could sue ME, and win big time, for hacking / invasion of privacy.

      • I don’t think it matters. With the Board, you can report anything, and then they carry the burden to investigate. You can always call them and ask (without identifying yourself or him) what to do. They have lawyers that work for the Board too that you can speak with to gather information on the situation, all without identifying yourself. Just call from an unidentifiable number.

  • Yep. The Innocent Spousal Relief section was made for chumps like us. The IRS was very helpful and it was a pretty much painless process. When my ex-hole’s security clearance was up for review, I told the truth. They rightly pulled his clearance, and America sleeps a little safer. My support definitely took a hit, but thank God for the DSS. They’ll get it from him eventually.

    Hang tough, girl. You got this.

  • Wow. I’d really like to be in touch with this letter’s author, because we are living almost the same life. It’s uncanny.

    • Maybe this is scenario isn’t all that uncommon!! That sucks, but my divorce attorney didn’t seem all that surprised. If they have a hooker (or narc or gambling or whatever) habit and they are self employed, then they create a stash of hidden cash to pay for it. Is that what happened to you, Alli?

      • My husband is a psychiatrist, and I’m beginning to think he chose psychiatry for the same reason pedophiles choose the priesthood or coach kids’ teams: access to a supply of vulnerable people. I know he leaves small amounts of income off his tax returns (I’ve always filed separately simply because he can’t get his shit together until April 14 and I don’t wait until the last minute), but I’m more concerned with the prescription bottles with other people’s names littered about my home.

        Oh, and did I mention he’s an alcoholic as well? Yep, I picked a real winner.

        • My ex was a criminal prosecutor in the sex crimes division.

          He used to groom statutory rape victims for his own uses.

            • My therapist was a specialist in the sexual realm and for a number of reasons she was positive if he hadn’t already raped a woman (or multiple) it was only a matter of time before he did.

              I saw her on and off for years and she was right about everything else… :o/

        • And I assume because you are on this list that he’s cheating about sex, too? Or maybe you suspect it but haven’t found incriminating evidence you can confront him with yet? Are the prescription bottles for drugs of abuse? Don’t know what to say except be an undercover detective, no matter how painful it is, and see if there’s evidence to support your suspicions. I kept my head in the sand for too long because I felt guilty doing something questionably unethical like hacking his email. Who knows that may come back to bite me yet, but Geez, self protection. Be discreet till you have evidence–then lawyer up and file.

  • Are you willing to be complicit in his shit? Because if you’re procrastinating on reporting him to “protect” your alimony & spousal support then you’re right there with him. Be moral. Let it all go. Do the right thing.

    • Just checked on this with board. Apparently, the only way one can file a complaint in my state is with the express consent of the patient involved. In other words, hooker OW would have to be the one to do it, not me, which is presently not likely. But maybe karma will come if he chumps her and she gets pissed??

  • Three stories of a cheater being a criminal to boot…in the ass and out the door !

    The “Jesus cheater” I dated briefly last year has a sister whose ex-husband is a cheater. When did she dump him ? Two D-days required for her. First, the shoe box of cash found in the closet. She suspected he worked as an enforcer/collector for the mob. Next, ex got into a car crash and a bouquet of flowers and candy were found on the front seat. These gifts were not for his wife.

    Heard through the grapevine that a high school classmate’s doctor wasband was arrested for prescription fraud (some given to his mistress) and he has since lost his license.

    Another man was running a pyramid scam/Ponzi scheme while supposedly working a full time job in the financial sector. It all came crashing down on his head and he now presents himself as being a “business consultant”.

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