Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

The Trickle Truth is Neither Trickle Nor Truth

thongAdd to the list of Reconciliation Industrial Complex euphemisms I despise — “trickle truth.”

I’ve ranted about “wayward” before and the “fog,” but it only recently occurred to me that “trickle truth” is equally moronic… or Orwellian. (Moronically Orwellian? Deviously Orwellian? Anyway…)

“Trickle truth” is like “truthiness,” the term comedian Stephen Colbert coined for the rebranding of lies, omissions, and bullshit.

What is trickle truth? Well, if you’ve spent any time on reconciliation boards, you’ve read about it. The narrative usually goes like this:

“I found a receipt in Elmore’s pocket for a hotel stay. At first he denied he’d ever been to that hotel. When confronted, he said ‘Oh, I was there for a conference.’ Alone? Yes. But I’d also found a dinner for two receipt. Who spends $176 by themselves at Outback Steakhouse? Okay, he was with a ‘friend’. She later came to his room because hers didn’t have a Gideon Bible and his did. And she needed help with her Bible verses because she always says her prayers at night before bed.

I felt uneasy. But who was I to question a good man helping a woman out with Psalms? Then I checked the cell phone bill. I guess she needed help with Proverbs, Corinthians, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John too because there were thousands of text messages between them. He admitted they’d been talking, but it wasn’t what I thought! They were just friends!

I think he’s having an affair. Perhaps it’s only emotional at this point, but I don’t know. Clearly, he’s paralyzed with shame about it, so he’s trickle truth-ing me. Only admitting to the things I have evidence of. It’s driving me CRAZY. I know this is a very difficult time for him, and my questions trigger self-loathing in him, so he can’t spit it all out. But I want to know what happened! I’ve read here that trickle truth goes on for months and I should just be patient while he comes out of the fog. This is killing me!”

Let’s call trickle truth what it is — continued lies by omission.

Really at best trickle truth is leaving out the damning crap you haven’t discovered yet. It’s also minimization (she’s just a friend!) and  gaslighting (I wasn’t at the hotel!) — and chumps spackle the entire thing into a phenomena they call “trickle truth.”

No — trickle truth is just a continuation of cheater think and entitlement. They enjoy the power of their secrets. They feel entitled to keep the truth from you. They feel entitled to misrepresent their affairs and lead you to believe it’s harmless and you’ve misunderstood them. If you want to get ANYTHING off this cheater, you’re going to have to work for it! And then they’ll deny and soft pedal what you found.

They aren’t “trickling” the truth in dribs and drabs. They’re throwing you off their scent. It isn’t shame that makes them withhold information — it’s wanting you to get the fuck off their backs so they can have more cake.

There’s no truth in trickle truth at all, except for the truth YOU discovered.

Truth doesn’t trickle. It’s told. Anything else is just more mindfuckery.

This column ran previously. Feel free to comment!

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Everything my stbx Douchebag47 ever did was “trickle truth” otherwise known as lying by omission. When my toes hit the line in the sand I omitted nothing when filling in all my friends, family and some of the general public about his behaviour. This “upset” him. I responded trickle truth that Douchebag!!!

    • I call it death by a thousand cuts. It’s cruel and manipulative and crazy-making. For a year or so, every “little” lie I uncovered made me more and more irrational. I finally realized that it was useless to even bother asking him for explanations because whatever he said was going to be another mind-fking lie. Boy did my sanity suffer! The closest I ever got to the truth was “If that’s what you want to think about me then knock yourself out with your constant paranoia. Sorry I make you feel so insecure.” Wish I’d smashed a grapefruit in his face for that one! Lol

      • Jeez. Asshat loved to say my reaction to learning about the trickle truth of his serial cheating was ‘death by a thousand cuts’ to him!

        This whole topic is hugely triggering for me. Makes me want to stand on the observation platform at the Hancock and scream. I’ll just do it virtually here and cut down some buckthorn trees in the yard instead.

        • ANC- See how they can flip the script on us!!! Ugh!!! I have to keep telling myself that my recovery has nothing to do with him and everything to do with ME and how I manage the triggers/mine fields of everyday life. Meh comes and goes for me. Gym, work, family, friends, and CL keep me sane. Power on CN!

          • One of the things that makes me angriest is hearing about how difficult talking/remembering about the cheating is *on him.* Oh poor widdle thing, it’s so hard to have to face the fact that you were a reprehensible human being. Well, too damn bad.

            • I agree. This whole concept of them being the victim is laughable. x sent me a text after our divorce to let me know he had forgiven me for all the tears I made him cry. WTF! Thank God I’m no contact. That shit messes with your head.

              • Did you reply BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA? Because that’s the only logical reply…

            • Mine too. He wants to “leave the past in the past” and never speak of any of the horrible things he has done and said. He has no answers and doesn’t know why he does anything that he does. The best I can get out of him is “I guess I’m just dysfunctional” or “I don’t remember”. But never “I’m sorry” NEVER actual accountability!
              Well I need to put this crap behind me and I cant do it without talking about it.
              Every conversation with him is pointless but he wants to “stay married to you forever”.
              I don’t understand any of it and it drives me crazy.

              • I don’t remember, or I never said that, I was beginning to think I had lost my mind. I’m sure that was is intention, if I hadn’t found CL and CN I’m almost certain I would have.

              • His epitaph, “I don’t remember.”

                Sounds about right. Like, doesn’t remember what year, or what date we first moved in together. Doesn’t remember how old his kids are. Remembered maybe twice in 29 years, my exact birthday. But was stunned and I couldn’t work out why he asked the kids the other day what I had planned for my birthday (which is this month.) WTF? Until I realised he thought I was turning 50. Because all my old school mates have for the last few months have been and are about to turn 50 – you know, social media and all. I was a year ahead – a fact that might have been mentioned once or eleventy-seven times in the last 29 years. So, my birthday will be 50-1. I know, maths is HARD.

          • Yep. Mine told me to “Stop playing the victim.” and “YOU’RE not the victim here!” more than once.
            Along with “You need to own YOUR part in this. (My cheating on you and lying to you about who I really was for three decades.)”

            He was so HURT that I got so ANGRY at him and said—gasp!–MEAN things to him about how deeply he hurt me. I was such a big meanie, I even called him a few mean names like “Liar”, “Cheater” and yes, “Limp-D*ck Loser”.
            And I meant every one of them. Still do.
            But I guess that hurt his feelings.

            Yep. My fault for believing what he told me about who he was and trusting what he demonstrated (to my face).
            Apparently my being loving and trusting (aka: GULLIBLE) was my own damn fault, and I got what I deserved!

            • Star, mine would say the SAME DAMN THING to me. Stop playing the victim, you are not the victim. I was like, WTF! They all have the book!

              • Not only did stbx tell me to stop acting like a victim, MC said the same thing. I should have run at that point instead I was a good little chump and said I’m not a victim for 4 more months. I was a victim and am fighting back now!

              • At one post in the post dump communication i got “you need to stop blaming others for whats happening” ….hmmm projection then…

              • I received this too: and replied “yhats right, I’m not a victim: I’m a survivor”

                Felt good

            • ?? I heard the same thing from my douche. When I added that he had wasted years of my life and that I wasn’t wasting another breath from my lungs on him it apparently affected him cause he brought it up later. Limp sick looser! Love it. Mine had what I called guilty dick

            • Mine loved to tell me that “it takes two to tango”. As if, I was cheating and lying, too. Fucked up in the head…the lot of them.

          • I rephrased it for him, Death by a Thousand Cunts. He never used condoms

            • Love it ANC! (not the *bareback* 1000 cunts so much. But the death part is good to go…)

              Mine never wore condoms either. And probs not 1000 cents. Just one diseased one 1000 times. Tomahto-tomayto.

              • *cunts, not cents. Geez, and I checked it twice. Autocorrect is sneaky on that word in particular!

      • Ugh, the “think whatever you want” response. I told him “well, I guess I have to!” Same as “well why don’t you ask me?” Because I can’t believe a word you say! How many times I asked about things (just his well-being and normal topics even) to get absolutely nothing of value. Also, why do *I* have to ask? How much is there that you don’t even know where to start? Smack my damn head against the damn wall…

        They “trickle truth” because they’re still writing the story. I honestly don’t think they really know all that much to ever say anything anyway, even if they wanted to. Just following some inner rotten impulse to quell that nagging feeling of “unhappiness”.

        • “Because I can’t believe a word you say! How many times I asked about things (just his well-being and normal topics even) to get absolutely nothing of value. Also, why do *I* have to ask? How much is there that you don’t even know where to start?”

          And this is where they can get you to mindfuck *yourself.*

          You find a snippet of information… the abrasive, above-the-skin part of a splinter and then, armed with truth-seeking tweezers, try to set the stage for the entire thing to be drawn out of him by pulling on that head. “Confidently,” you use that head as bait and – knowing how he operates – confront him with the likely scenario of that snippet *as truth* and see whether or not he admits to it and the entire piece of wood comes out.

          But eventually, you realize that it doesn’t matter if you get the splinter out. After you’ve mindfucked yourself to the point of rabid paranoia.

          • I found trickle truth wasn’t limited to the prostitutes. I recently learned from the shelter that our cat didn’t come from them but very likely from a breeder at a cost of several hundred dollars. Who lies about a cat? The sociopath who needs a daily dose of duper’s delight.

        • Just following some inner rotten impulse to quell that nagging feeling of “unhappiness”.

          Spot on!! And they will continue to re-write the story because it is all about getting what they want in that moment.

      • The worst thing the POSH ever said to me was “Well if you need to convince yourself I’m cheating because you can’t handle the fact that I just don’t want to be with you anymore than go for it”. My response was “if you don’t want to be with me there is the door”. He refused to leave that night. When I wanted him to stay (I was 7 months pregnant and terrified bc my marriage was falling apart) he left, when I told him to get out he stayed. And when I confronted him with evidence of his excuse never made sense. I was able to poke holes in the excuses and by that point he would become angry.

        I think cheaters, especially my POSH who thinks he is this great poker player because he can bullshit anyone, anytime anywhere, get off on each lie we believe. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking that cheaters have to know at SOME POINT they WILL get caught. Caught in something. Maybe not the physical act but something. I often wonder if the thrill of cheating for my POSH was “how far can I keep this going”. Because I swear he enjoyed texting in front of me knowing it drove me crazy not knowing if he was texting her, his mother, his best friend, or just playing solitaire. But the POSH is also narcissistic which is why I think he enjoyed knowing he was cheating right under my nose and I could never prove it.

        • They are con artists and I do believe that they get a thrill every time they pull one over on someone.

      • THIS!
        “I call it death by a thousand cuts. It’s cruel and manipulative and crazy-making. For a year or so, every “little” lie I uncovered made me more and more irrational. I finally realized that it was useless to even bother asking him for explanations because whatever he said was going to be another mind-fking lie. Boy did my sanity suffer!” And I couldn’t get that a*hole to leave the house !!!

        After I tired of being the marriage police-I was going to hire a PI & the detective told me up front that if I already felt that strongly in my gut that ex-husband was cheating to save my money & just divorce him instead. I finally ended up using find my iPhone app to catch Mr. Runswithhookers in the act at the Asian hooker palace and the rest is history.

        Thank god for CL/CN/and a great therapist! I was able to accept that I would never know the whole truth about anything he did to get closure for myself & I forgave myself for picking that asshat & staying with him for so long.

        He passed away unexpectedly earlier this year & I did have a few small triggers when a lot more of his lies came to light. By that time, nothing came as a surprise to me since I knew who he really was behind the mask but I must say it was a massive dose of reality to his family.

        • Current Chump,
          I am so sorry for all the pain you went through.
          As Chumps we know we carry scars forever, but now I sincerely hope that you will have peaceful, happy days ahead.
          You certainly deserve them.
          I send you many hugs and am glad that you, as I, find comfort thru true friends, here, at CN.

      • I had a dream the morning of D-day that my soon to ex parasite was trying to make love to me in a hotel but everyone was staring at us and he couldn’t get it “up” figures lol. Towards the end of the dream “nightmare” he was stabbing me ” to death with a thousand cuts”. 6 weeks after D-day and I am still alive!!! Thanks to all the stories I’ve read on here and today I finally posted back. I’m finally realizing I am not alone in this world and it makes me happy to know life can only get better from here on out.

        • Welcome sweetChumpgirl, unfortunately, you are not alone. I am glad you found CL, it will give you strength through this shit storm.

    • Trickle-Truth aka Situational Ethics that Haggar the Whoreable spewed. Never admitted to anything even when the cat drug out his snail trailed undies. Nope. Not seeing anyone – just thinking of me……GAG! I never thought much of it until it smacked me in the face. Even the cat knew he was a lying, cheating bastard. Not Situational Ethics, just the personal permission to lie whenever it seemed like a good idea. Get 2 speeding tickets in a week…nope, got only 1 until the 2nd was found…..

      Loved the “walk” he went on “by himself” when on vacation abroad. Left his young daughter in a hotel room to sleep while he went out. I have since had the “DOH” headslap moment that he met up with another version of Ankles and wasn’t faithful ever.

      Life is better on the other side, but it is interesting the triggers that still get you. Trickle truth is an illusion just like the mask they wore.

  • I love it when they say they dont want to tell you anything “beacause it will only hurt you.”
    You think?
    What hurt worse was the betrayal….might as well come clean you idiot!!

    • Mine said that line. He also said you can’t handle the truth. I replied you’ve called me a cock block while pregnant, called me an idiot, stupid and threatened to kill me in front of our son… All hurtful things. You’ve cheated. Yet you think that this truth you have to tell me will hurt?
      He shut up and looked confused. Guess it didn’t go according to his script.
      Of course now that I know better the answer to any of his word salad should have been radio silence or the word ‘okay ‘, which would really mean ‘WTF ever you lying piece of shit’

      • Oh my gosh, when my ex was still refusing to move out, reply to his B.S. with “okay” was such torture for him. He could NOT figure out why I wasn’t responding like I used to, all those years when I was caught up in the RIC.
        To anyone who is still reacting to your cheater, try “okay,” even when they’re calling you names, blameshifting, etc. It’s a total game changer.

        • Or just look right at them and raise your eyebrows with a smirk. No words necessary. Narcissists HATE to feel as if someone is looking down on them.

    • I think mine said the same. When I kept asking him questions about the whore and what they’d done, he said, “Why do you want to know?” Uh, because it will help me to deal with the whole thing!

      And honestly, I know there was a LOT more involved with their affair than what he admitted, but I no longer need to know. It will just rip off the scab again.

      I still remember part of the conversation the night I confronted him about his betrayal. I said, “Did you feel guilty about buying the condoms?” and he said, “Yes.” Later on in the conversation, he circled back to it and he said, “How did you know I felt guilty?” WHAT A DUMBASS. Because I KNOW you, you jerkface! Even after 18 years together, he still had to ask that question?

      • My cheater admitted that he “offered” condoms to the last OW to look like he practiced safe sex…but really had no intention of using them (and didn’t)…all part of seeming to be a “nice guy” and looking out for her welfare. And of course didn’t tell her he was a serial cheater with prostitutes, random women, etc without ever using condoms.

        • OMG. That is HORRIBLE.

          Mine *told* me he used condoms, but I still got tested for STDs. His whore is the poster child for STDs. *shudder*

          • My cheater said he used condoms with the previous partners but his current know. I said wth, weren’t you worried about std’s.?? His response- I didn’t think it was anything soap and water wouldn’t wash off. Brain dead much?

            • Yes, very reckless. My cheater is a professor in a top-ranked medical school, but clearly not intelligent – thinks he’s invincible.

            • Condoms condoms condoms…
              I cannot walk past the colourful display of them in a drug store and not want to puke.
              Every time, I picture him walking into the store, choosing a bright coloured pkg, ( actually I know he bought several), walking to the check out and paying for them.
              Meanwhile, I am home caring for our little girl, in first trimester pregnancy. ( in between I almost died with a tubal pregnancy – he was working away when I went through this alone).
              Oh yea, big sale on, big need for condoms! Which I am sure he never used with Miss Perfect Lollipop.
              I am sorry to go on and on dear Chumps, the condom subject just rattles me!
              ( can ya tell!) ?

    • Yeah the ‘turn it back on you’ line. I got after the momentous ‘ILYBINILWY’ after i recoiled in (bed) in horror… he goes…’i bloody knew this woukd happen that’s why i didnt say before. ‘ so even in the monent that was mine to own as a valid reaction was in the same breath taken away like i couldn’t even object because he had already made it my problem in 5he same sentance. WTF

  • It’s more proof that cheaters hold chumps in contempt. I remember confronting Rhys about Annie staying over (we weren’t exclusive, mind you) and having to say, “Did it never occur to you that maybe, just maybe, I needed this info to make an informed decision?”

    • It’s true — even in their powerlessness (at least mine — totally not in control of his own life), they are able to hold that power over us by denying information. Information that may have led to the ending of marriages (and their cake supply) much sooner. X thought he could have it all, and even admitted to “knowing” how I’d react if he told me, which is why he didn’t. Chumpy me tried to “show him” by remaining cool and calm and staying while he worked on himself and we “worked” on our relationship, but it eventually proved to be too much. Yeah, so I guess he did know how I would react. How else could someone react to what he did? Denying that information is such a violation of the relationship and of the other person, I don’t even know how to put it into words…

      • Honestly, it could be that the long-term denial of information was far worse than the act itself. It revealed way more about who he was, and that was the most devastating.

        • Spot on ChumpOnIt. Cheaters actually affair(before he left me for OW) was a very short 2 months. I know realise this was the discard phase. He had been lying to me for at least a year before that. He had been devaluing me all that time, and that is just as much of a mind fuck as learning about the affair. Guess it’s my fault really, he showed me who he was before I married him. I just chose to believe his lies as I did our whole relationship. He just used me the whole 8 years we were together until he couldn’t do it anymore. Then he just replaced me with a younger version. One in one out as i was a car or something.

          • I feel like there were bits and pieces that I ignored as well. I consider myself pretty perceptive of others too. Just goes to show how well-masked and deceptive they can be, whether consciously or subconsciously. I think my X focused more on the image management of himself whether than outwardly enjoying the drama and triangulation that others’ Xs seem to. Look like a good guy, still get what he wants, sweep it all under the rug and play the role of loving husband. It got to him eventually. Didn’t matter, it was too late to see him as anything other than the rot in his soul. Something had been nagging at me and I finally had a face to the problem. Part of the hurt is allowing me to flounder and nag at him and become frustrated with his lack of involvement, all the while knowing the cause. Self-destruction isn’t self-destruction when you grab at others to take them down with you.

            • “Self-destruction isn’t self-destruction when you grab at others to take them down with you”.

              I know they just want ‘cake’ but seriously why do they insist on bringing us down with them. He could have just left and saved so many people including himself in the process. Instead I’m left as a single mum to a 3 year old and a newborn. Having to deal with Disney dad and his impression management to his fucked up family and the equally fucked up teenage (19) OW.

              • Hey, so i missed you had the baby!! Congratulations honey. All the love, hugs and support in the world. You can do this, new beginning. One foot in front of the other, one day at a time. Please ask for help and be kind to yourself. You are the sane loving amazing parent! Im not sure how the forum works but pkeSe reach out if ever you need encouragement.???

              • Thank you patience, I should probably change my screen name now. I am doing ok really. I have just been flicking between being really angry and hating him and being sad that he has blown our family apart. I can’t help looking at other families and being feeling sad that we don’t have that. I know he doesn’t care so I need to work really hard to get the point where I don’t care either.

              • I get that image, what we thought we had, poof. Nut you do have a little family, it just looks different now. Think of what you and the kids wont miss, the lying, shuffling, blaming, nightmare scenario. The kids wont see that BS. I know how deep it hurts, especially with your hormones thinking they are trying out for cirque de sole! Hang on, it gets better, but you have to do self care! Sleep when baby bumps sleeps, lay down with yiur 3 year old, read and nap.

              • Congratulations!!!! Your little one will bring you so much joy. I was where you are and the stupid post emotions mess with you, too. You and your kids are a family. He’s just not in it anymore.

              • We must have been pregnant chumps at the same time! I had my daughter 3 weeks ago and she lights up my life! Her 3 brother’s are in love with her too.
                I hope your birth went well…my narc ex turned up at the hospital while I was in labour after repeatedly being told to stay away. They are so entitled and think of noone but themselves, lucky for me my mum and midwife sorted him out, but as soon as he had me alone he let me have it. How are you managing your custody schedule with the newborn? Mine gets 2 hours twice a week, he wants 50/50 with the other 3 but he will have to fight me for that, I’m now a sahm so have much more time to offer them than he does. I have a looooong road stuck with a lying/cheating/ manipulative narc but whatever it takes to give my kids the best life l can.
                Enjoy your new bub, every moment, l know l will be ❤
                Sending hugs and strength

              • Congratulations@!! Baby girls are awesome!! I have 3 but since this is your first, just wait till you get to shop for her!!! So fun, and all the big brothers fussing over you two!!! You are thriving, not just surviving!!! Hugs!!!

              • Thank you Patience, I’m in the middle of the shit storm atm and he is trying to screw me over for every cent even when l offered equal asset split! But I have a good lawyer who can’t wait to see him in court ( apparently I’ve been way too nice) my boy’s have to deal with a new women in there lives within weeks of our seperation, they truly can’t be alone.

                I am very much looking forward to our first shopping trip and alot of other first ❤

              • I know its a nightmare, but with 4 lids, no judge will let him get far.
                So glad you have a solid lawyer. No fault state? I will keep you on my prayers. You are a strong young spirited women, keep your chin up. My kids saved me, focused on them and our new family core. Otherwise, i may have gone into fetal position. I had the last babe at 44, bought a pop up camper used when she was 4 so we could still camp, even without a dad. We have a blast, just us. You can do anything, trust in that knowledge. ?❤⛺

              • Pregnant chump, I get how you must feel- happy about your new baby but sad about the father. I feel bad for you. Every time you see what appears to be a happy mom, dad and new baby it is probably like a twist of the knife.

                Everyone has their inner pain. I hope yours will be eased. I hurt when I see what appear to be happy intact families but I am sure they have pain too.


                Not that it helps much, but there is someone else who when she sees you out with your baby, she will feel a twist because she miscarried hers. We all have our

              • When you feel sad over seeing intact families just remember what your family with the cheater in it felt like. Which is worse? Then latch onto your new definition of your family.

                My older daughter asked me why I had stayed with your dad after first OW and I told her that I didn’t want my kids to have a broken family. She then looked at me and said, “Our family isn’t broken. Dad is just not in it anymore.”

              • Congratulations Newatthis. I also had a little girl, 3 year old boy. I am going to mediation to sort out custody. I don’t think he will ask for 50/50 because of his shift work. He really only has 2 days off a week so I can’t see him being able to have 50/50. I don’t know how it will work with baby since I’m breastfeeding. I really don’t want to hand her over to him but I know I won’t have a choice.

              • Thank you pregnant chump and Patience ❤ l know how you feel about handing her over, my stbx can see her at the boy’s footy games and training THATS IT, for now anyway ( l am breastfeeding also) and he parades her around like he is father of the year, makes me sick! He also works long hours but he will eventually go 50/50 custody because he is ‘entitled ‘ and despite me! I hate that we are stuck with narcs and the misery they bring but l a determined not to take any more of my sanity and soul.

                Patience, we had a caravan that he took along with anything else that was outside that he could, but l definitely plan on getting another and start making new memories!!

                Bring on our new life with our beauties ❤?

              • Feeling it I have a friend from work who was pregnant at the same time as me 3 years ago. She had a long history of miscarriages and unfortunately she lost this baby too. Since then she has adopted a lovely little boy and are in the process of adopting another one. It does make me see how lucky I am to have these children even if I have to share them with a fuckwit.

              • Getmefree I think I’m still trying to process that everything has been a lie. I thought we had a great life, obviously he disagreed. He was just very skillful at lying. I know my problem is I’m looking at things through my own moral lense and thinking that he is doing the same. I need to go find another counsellor/therapist to try and wotk through some of this stuff.

              • Congratulations on your babies, pregnant chump and New at this! I hope that your inner mightiness is renewed with the power of newborn motherhood. I felt like I could lift a car after I had my daughter. Now I wish I could experience it all over again…partially so I can lift a car and throw it at X arsehole, ha.

                I get those pangs of sadness when I see seemingly intact families too. Now that daughter is squarely in the toddler realm, I am missing her as a baby. I get to thinking of the fact that this is probably my first and last, and that I had no choice in that matter, and that makes me sad as well. Going through what we do inevitably drags us to dark places from time to time. I try to focus on the fact that I have a beautiful, sweet, healthy little girl and it lifts me back up.

                I hope your days are filled with peace (and rest!) as you enjoy your kiddos.

          • For 14 years, I was a toaster…a very good toaster. However, one day, he started acting like he didn’t like the way I toasted. It was the same way I’d always toasted, but what I didn’t know was, he had his eyes on an old toaster he used to use. It wasn’t a better toaster…just different. So he put me on a shelf. Then his other toaster broke…couldn’t be fixed. He had 3 other toasters, that he’d been using too, but they weren’t that great. Suddenly, he realized he’d put away a very good toaster! When he tried to use me again, however, I refused to operate. I wasn’t broken, I just wouldn’t work for him. I decided to make toast for myself! He sure does go through a lot of toasters! To a narcissist, you’re nothing more than an appliance. You don’t love an appliance. They’re happy to have a new one and are satisfied when it’s working fine. Oh, but narcissists get bored with their appliances. Nothing anyone can do to change that fact. You can be the most brilliant appliance, but a narcissist will long to try out a newer one or fiddle with an old one again. Never satisfied , they always end up throwing away ALL their appliances.

              • Dear Pregnant Chump,
                Just thinking, you don’t really have to change your screen name, ( unless you prefer to that is), as CN knows, respects and loves you by that name. You earned this name as he cheated on you when you were carrying his child. Oh,I better not get started on this subject again.
                You hold a special place in my heart Pregnant Chump.
                Many of us who were pregnant when cheater betrayed us have a poignant understanding of your pain.
                Never meaning to underestimate any Chumps pain. It all sucks.

                Hugs to you and your precious little ones!

            • This analogy made me think of the Brave Little Toaster (loved that movie as a kid).

              Great analogy…we’re only “of use” to people like this. And even when we’re useful, we’re not good enough. Like you said, you don’t love an appliance past its perceived functionality. And shiny and sparkly and new is preferred.

    • Contempt!? My fuck turd even TOLD me on his surprise discard…after a nice family holiday / school milestone / big anniversary / birthday…coming up to christmas. … i have nothing but contempt for you and sex was nothing but a biological release. .im just sitting there is disbelief with my mouth hanging open because i think he has suffered some sort of head injury. Nope the last 18 months have been pure hell and he is one prize bastard towards kids and all. He even threw our pets under the bus (litterally ) 5 pets mysteriously died the week he left….then 3 months later he forced me to sell our house. …no pets to screw up a rental agreement then …. going to plan. i think mine was more of a psychopath

  • OK, everything described here was just flat out lying – he was at the hotel and denied it, not didn’t mention it (which lying by omission is just as bad of course). I think we need to start calling this o-so-common phenomenon among cheaters something else. It is like slowly and arduously trying to snake your drain to get out all the sludge and hairballs (lies) but only getting them bit by bit and never really getting the whole drain cleaned out completely. I am sure there is some great plumbing analogy here that I am not clever enough to think of.

  • Is there another term for cheaters that balk that you asked the wrong question. example- did you hear any news about your job transfer? Reply – nothing. Later with friends, cheater: so there’s a chance I might get sent to Dallas. Eyes from enquiring friends and family turn to you, the spouse, PhysicsGal, you never said anything? Me: Mouth agape with shock of news, trying best to cover.


    PhysicsGal: I asked you about a job transfer? You said nothing

    Cheater: you never asked me about a transfer to DALLAS!

    This happened with everything:
    Do you like your new shirt?
    You didn’t ask if I liked the blue shirt (the only new one he had recently received)

    Drove me batahit crasy

    So where were you last night?

    You didn’t ask me where I was at 10 pm that night!

    Next day/week/month –

    • Yes. this was the worst period, the whole game of, “well, if you’d asked me in the right way, maybe I would have told you, agreed with you, stopped seeing her, but you haven’t, so you can’t have what you want.” It’s like being in a relationship with the Sphinx. Constantly trying to figure out the magic combination of words, timing, and tone that will achieve the result you want, playing a game where they keep changing the rules….

      I let that shit go on FOR A YEAR, and then I found Chump Lady.

      • See, why should we have to ask the “right” way? If they are sincere and well meaning, they should have divulged the information in the right way to us in the FIRST place. When someone is forthcoming and has nothing to hide, they should provide all the information so as to leave no doubt as to their intentions. If they tell us that we need to ask the right way, then it means, their intentions are bad towards us.

      • Geez, I’m all too familiar with this one.
        If I approached cheater in a tone which was too angry, he’d use it against me: “You scare me. I’m not telling you anything”. If I approached him in a tone of desperation: “You’re angry. You have an anger problem. I’m not telling you anything”. If I was crying: “You’re an angry person. I’m not telling you anything”.
        If I approached him calmly (as to near the timid forest creature without startling him back into the deep woods), he’d just Stonewall me with silence.
        Once I asked him exactly what manner of speech I needed to use in order to approach him with this subject, and he said “talk to me like you’d talk to our son (3 years old). So I did. He responded: “If you’re going to be a condescending bitch, you’ll never get any information”.
        I gave up. It was clear- I wasn’t going to get anywhere with this douche. I’m sure he had a good inner laugh watching me struggle to get answers about his infidelity.

        • Either you’re too angry, or you’re too unstable, they’re scared of you, they’re scared for your safety, it’s sweet how much they care…they even discuss you with the AP. Aawwwh…

    • Chump Lady,
      I have to ask where did you get your creative, vivid, etc. many many etc. writing powers!
      This post, the Gideon Bible….. ALL posts. It just flows out of your awesome brain and you start us Chumps off with a good chuckle. Sad stuff but it is a deal breaker to give us a good start to our day.
      Is there a strong family history of great writers or are you just a natural?

      • Peacekeeper I love it too! It really helps put it ALL in perspective about how crazy it all is: for the chump, for the cheater, for schmoopie, for everyone involved!

        Some stupid shit my 48 y.o. ex said while chasing our daughter’s 20-something assistant basketball coach: “she said she just wants to be friends!” “we are only sharing a hotel room because she thinks of me like a father” “no one else can use her $3000 plane ticket so why not just let her go?” “our daughter loves spending time with schmoopie, I’ll just wait in the are while they are together’ “I’m sorry you got hurt”.

        And now a year later with divorce final, kids not wanting to spend time with him, and consequences have been felt “I never meant to hurt anybody”. The sad sausage makes an appearance.

        When the chump is in the middle of the crazy, they can’t see the forest for the trees. CL and CN are there to say “Hey, watch out! That there is a timid forest creature” I think CL is like our safari guide to navigate through the bullshit.

      • I don’t post very often but I read everyday. I find in my own writing – even simple emails – I ask myself “What would Chumplady say here?”. I confess I have used her “flaming caldron of disfunction” phrase on more than one occassion.

        • I use “hopium” and people laugh their arses off. Thanks CL for all these fun new terms to describe these flaming idiots. It helps lighten the sting a bit.

        • Hi Fern,
          I am glad that you posted here.
          I found CL a year ago and it took me a long time to post. I read over archives whenever I get a chance.
          So many life happenings shared. The strength, love and incredible knowledge and advice found here on CL, CN is, to put it simply, life saving!
          I send hugs to you Fern.
          You are never alone, CN has your back.

      • A great post UXworld, I’ve adopted it and generally say things like “his paltering became insufferable” when explaining our divorce at social gathering…

        It’s a bit more genteel than “I divorced him upon finding out that he had been entertaining a mistress half his age for over a year. But don’t worry, he married her two months after our divorce was final, I am sure they are bringing each other all the happiness they both deserve.”

    • My STBX was a master at paltering. Unless you asked the question VERY specifically, he talked around it.

      Me: Did you sleep with her?
      Him: No (because they never actually slept)

      Me: Are you seeing another woman?
      Him: No. I am not seeing someone (because he was seeing multiple someones)

      Me: Is that the night you started having sex with her?
      Him: We did not have sex that night (but they had for months beforehand)

      They get a sick thrill out of misleading people. When you stop asking the questions and just assume that what you suspect is true and that they SUCK, life starts to get better. And your sanity starts to return. Done playing his games…

  • Since “truth” is a word that is not in a cheater’s vernacular, I think of it as “trickle info”. And that info is always the smallest amount the cheater feels they have to dole out to accomplish their next goal…whether that goal be more kibbles, cleaning out the bank account, finding the next whore, etc.

    I often wondered why I expected the truth from the person who spent at least a year lying every day, every hour, and and every minute. It just proves he had no love or respect for me. Screwing the whore (now Owife) was just the symptom of his total lack of character. Well, now Owife can worry about the truth.

    • Yes, I do wonder why the Ric thinks a confirmed known long term liar will just suddenly start telling the truth??

      • Sometimes I think the RIC is a chump in institution form. They project good values onto the cheaters which the cheaters do not possess (he/she doesn’t WANT to behave that way – no one does, most people want to live a good honest life), they are gullible (your cheater will tell the truth if given a safe space), they believe the cheater wants to save his/her family because they are basically good people (no, they want cake) and best of all; they deserve forgiveness. Sorry nobody deserves forgiveness who is only sorry they got caught.

        • Yes! At its most unadulterated (if we remove the $$$ motive) and best intentioned, the RIC is most definitely a chump in institutional form. Because normal people can feel genuine remorse, desire for forgiveness, etc. and would otherwise like to live a fairly honestly and truthful life, we expect the cheaters will as well. The RIC would like to have us believe that the severely damaged moral compasses of the disordered can be fixed. Exactly like a chump.

          • Where is the RIC for persons who’ve been raped, robbed or whose loved ones have been murdered? Where is the Bernie madoff RIC? Where is the pedophile and their victims RIC?

            • So good intentions aside (the only way I see RIC as being comparable to chumpdom), yeah, I hear you. I think this falls in line with society making adultery out to be glamorous or committed by “broken” and/or “misunderstood” people. We know this is only superficially true at best. If there was a more widespread perception that this behavior was criminal or as morally bankrupt as it is, there is no way in hell the RIC would exist. As KathleenK said, “nobody deserves forgiveness who is only sorry they got caught.”

        • Or, alternatively, the Reconciliation Industrial Complex has more sinister goals: to rob us chumps of our time and money when we are most vulnerable and to perpetuate misogyny.

        • Kathleen K, you hit it right on the nose!

          We need a new kind of counselling that is focused on seeing the cheater for exactly who they are and formulating an escape plan instead of the RIC half-assed rose colored glasses and encouragement to continue swallowing the shit sandwich smorgasbord!

          • When I say new kind of counselling, I mean the RIC should not be the Gold Standard for infidelity issues that everyone is expected to turn to first.

    • We NEVER get the “truth”, the whole truth or anything resembling the truth.
      Cheaters don’t give (the truth or anything else) – they just take. Until we cut of their supply.

  • I was getting painful dribbles of reality out of my cheating ex-wife at the same time I was headed to my doctor for an STD check. So I can’t hear the phrase “trickle truth” without intrusive thoughts of ghonnorhea. (By sheer luck I contracted no illness–unless you count chronic regret at breeding with a fuckwit).

    • Nomar, I don’t think they have a vaccine for “chronic regret at breeding with a fuckwit.” Hopefully they will find one in the future.

      • So true. I have raised some great kids. They have tremendous denial about their father though. Painful to see and discuss.

    • My children are grown and the “chronic regret at breeding with a fuckwit” doesn’t go away. I am three years out. I just had a conversation with my son that made my heart hurt for him. Dealing with the fact that your dad (hero you looked up to) is a lying, cheating, POS is a tough road to travel.

      Hugs to all chumps and extra hugs to those who have children who will have to deal with a shit storm that never ends.

      • Yup – I’m paying for my stepdaughter to go to counseling because her Mom can’t afford it and Mr. Sparkles doesn’t think she needs it… there’s no reason a young woman who is struggling to form intimate relationships with anyone because her Dad is a pathological lying whore who walked out on her mom and her stepmom needs therapy.

        • Jedi hugs to you for helping her. I hope you found a therapist she has bonded with. Ex and I were proactive, getting kids in therapy from Day 1, but my daughter did not feel comfortable enough to open up (daughter is stubborn), and I did not realize the depth of the problem (ex had her keep secrets, she felt abandoned since ex married, had a baby, and moved away less than six months post divorce) Daughter attempted suicide (failed) and planned another before we found a wonderful therapist. Out of network, so ex now refuses to pay his share. It has been two years, and I think daughter has finally learned enough to open up when she is feeling self destructive.
          Keep a weather eye out for her, and make sure the therapist is “pushing” to get at her real feelings and beliefs.

      • I’m 4 years on, as is my chump friend, and we both still have that chronic regret and discuss it often, and so wish we had chosen better for our kids. I hope in years to come it fades!

        • I’m a lawyer (but a nice person) and always considered myself pretty damn smart.

          I was, incredibly, gas lighted and “trickle” truthed for at least the last decade of my 35 year marriage. I WAS SO BLIND!

          Among my MANY many regrets is how stupid and naive I could be. Where was my brain? I’ve got adult onset epilepsy now (& he left for the adventure of OW in Alaska a week later)

          but I’m talking about before the seizures! How could I not see the truth?

          OMG my kids saw it, and still it kept happening…never with any admissions other than he “was going to tell” me….

          So much cognitive dissonance in him and such long term deceit. HE really should be an actor.

          I also bought the “shame” he felt as the reason, but there is no shame in him. He never said there was and never once said he felt guilt or remorse. He cried ONCE and now I realize it was b/c HE felt the kids were not as close to him. NOT B/c he inflicted pain on them, but b/c of HIS loss.

          He is, literally, shameless.

          I just feel sick about his behavior and I feel almost worse about my own idiocy.

          Next month we are to LITIGATE our divorce…in a no fault state b/c he wants…I don’t even know.

          He’s a DOCTOR (all caps seems appropriate given the givens) and I’ve been a SAHM for the past decade. I’m 57 with gaps in my resume and his resume is, thanks to ME, pristine.

          How could I not see that he’s a bad man with a few charms and a good build??

          How can a smart attractive woman (who is also hilarious and likes sex, btw) have been so duped?

          The DOCTOR’S FIRST WIFE…(aka a Medical/Legal Chump)

          • It’s scary as shit to realize how insidious this is. The chump for their super spackle power and the cheater with their super entitlement and lack of character. I really think the longer you stay, the harder it is to see too. Once you see it, you can never go back. You realize you have to cut bait.

          • You gave up so much of your career. Any plans to go back to work?

            I’m in the opposite boat; finishing up medical school while he’s a lawyer (NOT a nice one, though he pats himself on the back a lot).

            Your ex embarrasses my profession! He’s supposed to help people and instead destroys the people closest to him. I’m sure he goes to work holding up that mask though.

          • Don’t beat yourself up as, I helped mine rise to lofty heights as a Commander in the Fire Brigade & his current OW (not sure if still together?) was a Dr of Sociology & advised me of our shared by many Short Bald Fat Italian (he’s English by birth)….Whackjob!

            Welcome to Dupers Delight (aka people who trust too much & are authentic & real) world…you’ll be fine & I had 29 years roaming in the forest of cognitive dissonance & played for a fool over & over but, am still standing & free from all the BS. Feels really good to be clear headed & not beat myself up as, I just didn’t know I was playing a game. Game Over & living in awareness is really very liberating. Love & light to my fellow travellers sailing through & realizing the world is not flat! 🙂

      • What pisses me off is trying to navigate my girls liking Twatwaffle because she’s “nice” and plays board games with them and buys them stuff. It actually enrages me. I hate her fucking guts.

        I absolutely REFUSE to allow her any one on one time with MY kids. Cheater thinks this is unreasonable and that breaking up our family IS reasonable.

        I hate his fucking guts too.

        • Sunflower 36,

          “Cheater thinks this is unreasonable and that breaking up our family IS reasonable.”

          It’s funny how that happens, isn’t it? Bastards!

        • Shit sandwiches all around.

          Stay sane. Be the adult. Love your girls and realize they may think differently when they are adults.

        • Sunflower 36,
          Been there done that & please just remind yourself that you get to decide whom your girls interact with.
          I got the ow onside because, she was just a player in his game & I needed my kids to be safe (one had asthma) & ex Jerk didn’t watch his meds but, she did. Thankfully this ploy worked & my son stayed safe. Remember the Ow is just a bit player & as time passes the same shit will happen to her & she’ll get stuck with a gamer for good if she’s not smart!

      • True that. Once we are done with the cheater, we are done.

        But our poor kids have to deal with it forever

        My cheaters AP was my first cousin. Whenever my boys visit their mom they have to suffer being around that douche bag, which they hate

      • This. Adult kids. I feel so bad for them. He’s their dad and an absolute ass.
        So angry he’s their dad. I chose so poorly.

        Shacking up with a 12 year younger ho worker. Tell ho workers kids he’s a friend and to call him “uncle”.

        They live together. Just GAG.

      • My daughter and I were watching Family Feud the other night and one of the questions was, “Name a profession where you have to lie a lot.” My daughter said, “Fatherhood.”

        She’s 17 and knows that her dad is a lying cheating bastard. I have her in counseling and I’m fortunate that I have a good male friend who is being more of a father figure to her than her own dad. My two brothers are also stepping up. I want her to realize that not ALL men are bad – but unfortunately, her father is a fuckwit of the highest caliber.

        We can only do so much to help them work through this. That is the thing, though. WE are the ones left to clean up the mess while the exes are off gallivanting with the OWs and often the OWs kids. It’s infuriating to me. But we gotta do what we gotta do for our kids.

        • Keep in’ Calm,
          My heart aches for your daughter. I froze when I read your post. That a child would say “fatherhood” in response to such a question.
          You are a loving, sane, present, parent doing all the right things to help your precious daughter thru this shit storm created by her other parent, her father.

          Recently my little grandson, lost his precious Dad, who was a loving father. When I see little boys with their Dad my heart aches that he has lost his.
          Here is your cheater with a beautiful daughter and he is not a present, loving Dad to her.
          Having a lot of problems with overwhelming sadness as I see my daughter and young children struggling, grieving, and your cheater just makes me so much angrier and sadder.

          Many hugs to you and your daughter.
          She knows your love.

          • Thank you, Peacekeeper. It just breaks my heart that he’s treating her like this. I cannot make sense of how he could put the whore and her kids above his own daughter. She is a wonderful, witty, and intelligent child, the biggest blessing of my life. And he’s missing out on it. I’ve BEGGED him to be a part of her life. Yet he thinks that inviting her out to his new place that he shares with the whore is something she’d like to do. My daughter REFUSES (she’s 17 so she can do that!). He thinks she should just forgive him and be okay with everything. It infuriates me.

            But we have grown so much closer through this. That is another blessing to count.

            I’m so sorry you’re dealing with the loss of your son-in-law. Sending prayers to you and yours.

          • Peacekeeper, I am so sorry to hear about your son in law. You are all in my prayers and i am sending you hugs. You are an awesome mom and im sure a huge comfort to her and the kids. Love to you.

            • Oh Patience,
              We haven’t communicated on this wonderful site for a long time it seems.
              Sadly my son in law passed away very unexpected, suddenly. My daughter performed CPR and even stayed with him thru the code in ER. ( both daughters and I are medical profession people). The children witnessed everything at home. By the time I could get to her side it was over.
              But, Patience, as sad as I felt, I had happy, bright light moments. I looked out at the bright sunny Saturday and I remembered it was your daughter’s wedding. Later I your post about how lovely it was and you did yourself proud. I knew that you would Patience and that made me smile.
              I am so thankful for all the beautiful people here at CN. I cannot see you, but I certainly feel you all in my heart!
              With love to each and every one of you, especially those who have lifted my spirits at a very sad time.

              • Oh hun, if you were in CA, id find you and give you hugs. I dont have words, i am so very sorry.

    • Lucky you. I got “there was no sex but intense PASSION” although he got tested for STDs and when I asked him why, if there was no SEX, I got the blank deer in the headlights gaze but he never let me see the test results. Then I got tested and was positive for Hep B. My divorce attny told his attny I was thinking of suing him and never heard from him again. Not to ask about my health or anything. After being married for 26 years. Must have been too hard to trickle truth lab results, huh? PS What is “intense passion” that does not involve bodily fluids of some sort?

      • Oh my God, I am so sorry!

        I too was tested, negatory, thank God, but man…..

      • Cheaters should be skinned alive, covered in honey and staked out near a giant ant hill. After that then crucified to finish the job.

        But, I’m feeling charitable today so they are getting off easy.

        • Rick,

          I’d just add that they be pilloried in the middle of town while the ants are feasting!

          • Like I said, I am feeling generous today.

            Yes, you are correct to add that!

      • My cheater lied and lied, saying he left me (alone and preggo to care for our not yet 2 y/o) because he felt like he needed space to find himself again. He promised he never slept with anyone. My consequence for being a spackle master was a positive test result for a high-risk HPV strain. He said that his whorestress claimed she got tested and was negative. Well. Nope. Even if I did have it before (which I didn’t) she would have contracted it via unprotected sex with my cheating husband. It’s a character issue and they are all fucking lying pos.

      • Oh….I am SO SORRY!!! I got tested, too, and thankfully it was all negative. These bastards don’t even THINK about our health when they’re out whoring around.

      • I’m very sorry. I’m not a lawyer, however shit like this:cheating on SOs and choosing not. To use protection and transmitting disease to the unknowing SO is manslaughter, right?

        (I’m having grammar issues today)

  • This was difficult to read, for obvious reasons. It’s so disgusting to look bad and see how fully I fell for the ric whorseshit. But my intentions were honorable in that I wanted to be a good wife, and especially a good mother, so I’ll cut myself some slack.

    • There’s nothing like having a hard copy of evidence, presenting it, and listening as they continue to put a spin on the truth.

      I had access to phone records and knew he made a hotel reservation the previous day. His response, “What if I got drunk and couldn’t drive home?”

      It’s not that they believe the truth will hurt; it’s to keep the mask on. And why not tell the truth? “What if I was alone?”
      Well the bank statement showed a breakfast receipt for forty dollars.

      It’s sickening to know I lived with a pathological liar. I found a cure. Leave a cheater and gain a life.

      Interestingly enough the reinventing himself involved this lie, “Im doing all the things with her I wanted to do with YOU.”

      I repeatedly asked him to take dance lessons. He refused. He responded to an ad she placed in a free newspaper requesting a dance partner for lessons 13 days before my 36th wedding anniversary. She specifically said ‘not married’. At the time he was asking me to buy a home with him as he needed my income to get a loan.

      Lying is by far the window into the debth of their sickness. The game is rigged. Son say there are no winners. I disagree. I won my freedom.

      • Ah. the pathological lies. Finally seeing that part of the equation was as devastating as it was eye-opening. The exact moment for me was when I was expressing dismay for having discovered yet ANOTHER lie …

        Me: Flabbergasted. “I cannot believe you would continue to lie to me — even now.”

        STBX: “What in the fuck is it with you and HONESTY?” (Hear the word “honesty” in your head as a sneer … something disgusting)

        Yep. That was quite a moment of clarity for me.

        • When I was trying to wreckoncile I had my cheater fill out this questionnaire to better understand the issues in our marriage and try to figure out what we should work on first. One part was ranking a bunch of things people value in a marriage on a scale of 1-4. 1 being very very important and 4 not important at all. My STBX ranked honesty as a 4. Admiration was ranked as a 1. Idiot, you can’t have admiration without honesty and trust. I should have kicked him out then and there.

          • And those rankings were the closest to truth you ever got out of him.

      • I confronted cheater with emails and phone records and receipts. He denied and spun lies. Who goes to Starbucks alone and buys two drinks? Well Cheater because he was bringing one to me but drank it on the way and then stopped and threw the cup away and the trip to Starbucks lasted 3 hours, but that was because he had to go the one across town near OWs work not the one 10 minutes away from us.
        Oh those ladies sweat pants under the seat? Well they aren’t ladies pants really that was a misprint on the label.
        Cheater told me all this was my fault if I hadn’t started digging and asking questions I never would have gotten hurt. See all my fault because I asked questions!

      • Same here, Doingme. My adult son (who loves his narcissistic father) told me some time ago, “You didn’t stand a chance, mom, the game was rigged.” I disagree that they have some kind of sickness, though. I believe they’re just entitled and many times simply evil.

  • Cheaters still do this even when the game is up and you’ve kicked them out / left them. It’s not just about retaining cake.

    It’s also about control, narcissistic supply / kibbles they get from holding back and and also, impression management. If they told you everything, you could tell their family, friends, whoever. They are frightened of these people judging them as they need them to continue to think they are wonderful for continued narcissistic supply.

    • Oh yes- CONTROL! I have read this on this site before but it bears repeating that controlling information is power. They love deciding what you get to know. It is the ultimate in mindfuckery.

      Adult daughter is currently in a roommate situation with two other roommates. One is getting ready to move out and they are getting a new roommate. The one moving out is playing complete mind games with the other two. When they ask her for information about her upcoming move, she avoids giving details as to when or where she is going. Now, her items disappear daily one at a time from the house. These are things that all three used and it causes inconvenience. For example, the shower curtain disappeared this morning. My daughter is furious and it seems to make her look like the crazy one but I think her roommate is a covert narcissist and knows exactly what she is doing.

      My stbx would leave out important information all the time, only to say I thought I told you. He would just laugh about it. I was oblivious to how controlling that was. He would admonish his brother for being so mysterious; now I realize he was the same. Not good at communicating really meant controlling what I knew in order to control me!

      • That is total controlling behaviour. Your daughter and the other room mate need – today – to go through everything, room by room, that belongs to the other person and box it up and leave it somewhere safe and legal for the one moving out to collect at her leisure. Then they need to start immediately advertising for and interviewing new room mates and give the one who is trying to control things a deadline to get out of her room. Take control immediately, in other words and be really bland and sweet in response to inevitable tantrum.

        • I know that’s right, Caroline. They are going to come home one day and find the apartment cleaned out ….

      • I never realized until now that lack of info from my STBX was controlling. I always thought he was just a forgetful fuck. It was a MAJOR concern in our relationship. He would never tell me where he was. I would have to track his phone to find out he was at a happy hour. Business trips were always last minute. Or when he did tell me he was going somewhere, he would never tell me what time he expected to be home. When I would complain, he would tell me I was trying to control him, but I just wanted the common courtesy of knowing if he was going to be home for dinner, etc. Guess that was just projection, huh?

        • Oh my goodness! My exhole did the same….last minute meetings, would say when he’d be home, out til 2am and I can’t sleep because I’m worried about him. And if I stood up for myself and said that I was angry with his lack of respect for keeping me in the loop, then I was too controlling. This was during our entire marriage, long before the affair came out. I truly wonder how many affairs he actually had that I never knew of.

          Well, I don’t honestly care what he did now. The entire relationship was a sham and all I grieve for now is the loss of the future I *thought* was in front of me.

          • This exactly! Behavior like this went on in our marriage for YEARS before any infidelities were discovered. Pretty sure the cheating has been going on a whole lot longer than I know. Anyone who has such little respect or compassion would be willing to cheat at any point along the way.

        • I’m just now seeing this. After reading this, that my STBX’s lack of giving me any information at all was a form of control.

          I had to ask for his trip schedule (he travelled weekly) and I only did that after Dday.

          He works for a bank, so always used ‘bank’ iphone so I could never track it or had any billing info on it. Paid for by the company. How convenient. Same with his laptop. I could never look at anything on there bc it had a rolling passcode. Nice for cheaters and other lowlifes.

          But the lack of info. Wow. For 26 years. I just always chalked it up to his being ‘reserved’ and ‘quiet.’ Turns out he was a SOCIOPATH and NARCISSIST. And divorcing him is hell.

          • Yes. Divorcing them is hell…I am already 16 months in and I don’t see any end in sight. What is sad is that we don’t have that much anyway. What little we had will be gone by the time the lawyers are done.

            Yet, what are we supposed to do? My STBX spent the last year finding ways to lose 34% of his income on his books. He is late turning things over. There are always missing pieces. I have 3 kids. The youngest is 1. That is a lot of years for him to cut his support payments by a third.

            Divorcing a narcissist who is unable to settle honestly sucks big time.

            • Asshole!!! Why is it they dont have any interest in supporting the children they helped create!!! Infuriated for you. They always think were screwing them, but its milk, shoes, a roof, etc…not like were running off to Paris for a week of whores play!

    • Offthecrazyytrain

      Controlling the narrative and leaving out details also works to keep the OW/OM from knowing the truth. Now I see how he set her up to repeatedly harass me to make me look like the crazy one. I’m amazed at how skilled such a limited person could manipulate a mentally ill woman into such hatred for someone she knew nothing about.

      His attempts for triangulation are always passive aggressive. Regardless of how they rewrite history WE know the truth. All in all that’s all that really matters.

      I’ve decided to stop pointing out the obvious to family and friends, they know. And why waste energy proving their disorder when their actions tell the story.

      • Doingme, that’s one thing I couldn’t understand either. x continuously said ow was “crazy” and I guess she was. I talked to her one time and the level of hostility toward ME was absolutely incredible. She called me a c$#t, she hates me, she threaten me, blah, blah, blah. It’s like our roles were reversed, she acted like she was the cheated on wife and I was the ow. Extremely deranged and delusional.

    • Yes. Controlling the image. My exH suffers from the “knight in white shining armor” syndrome. After all that he did, he still things he’s a Good Guy who simply made some bad choices.

      • Ditto that. Or that he’s broken and needs fixing. Still a nice guy though.

      • I got the same thing…”I’m not a bad person, I just made a mistake.”

        Having an affair is not a “mistake”. An affair takes lots of deliberate actions to make happen. You chose over and over to lie to me. It took real planning to get a new phone number, hide hotel money, find meeting times for sex in the park or at your work. Those were all choices, not an accident. Your dick didn’t just fall out of your pants into her as you tripped in the street.

        • KHar73, nothing says true love like a quick fuck at work, or in the park??? Cra cra for adults to do this.

  • So true, CL: it isn’t shame that makes them withhold the truth.
    They also try to make us think that they’re not telling the whole story because the details would hurt our feelings (or would show their true rottenness). White lies?
    CL is so right about them enjoying our “investigations”, our hunt is fun because useless in their deluded perspective.
    They love the idea of making us run around wasting our energies, struggling to find out the real truth behind the scenes. They’re wrong: we’re not doing anything like that. We’re valuable people: they’re cheaters, we’re healthy. We can’t waste our time with their games.
    “We’ve got a million trillion things that we’d rather f do” as in “Fist Fight”. We should immediately show our pride and our-“cheater just stay out of my way”-face and just leave them to cope with the consequences of their sick choices.
    Trickle truth shouldn’t touch our precious mindsets.
    Trickle truth should be registered as perjury and cheating should be illegal.
    Everybody seems to forget that cheating means breaking a contract.
    There are so many alternative options to choose: not getting married, divorce before cheating or telling their partner about their desire of an open relationship would be more honest and consistent with the agreement of a relationship. They break their promises or conceal their true intentions in a civilized society and can laugh at us? Are so many serial cheaters normal in a civilized world? Who do they think they are anyway to waste our lives? They take advantage of honest people who stick to the rules, they bring chaos in our children’s lives, they hurt us and our families getting away with it by telling trickle truth! Where does the law protect sincere people? I want to live there.

    • Merry,
      I’m with you. I hate hearing the ‘saying’ that nobody said life is fair. Well, why the fuck not? It should be fair! I want to speak with whoever’s in charge of this shit show. I want a refund. Life isn’t fair… that is the most lame ass excuse/comment.

      • Reneeb, what a great observation. Life should be fair, at least regarding stuff other people do. Cheating is unfair at its very core.

  • I had to break it down to the x that any ATTEMPT to deceive is a lie. Whether it’s direct or omission is irrelevant to me.

    For example, if I ask ” did you stop at a whore’s house on your way home from work? ” and he says no, that is a direct lie. If I ask ” It’s 8 o’clock, why did it take you two hours to get home from work?” and says “Traffic was bad” or something like that, other than the truth but not what I asked about, that is lying by omission. But I think a grown man knows that and I don’t want to be with a known liar, no matter what anyone wants to call it.

    • The other side of that coin is exaggeration. Mine exaggerated all the time ( not an exaggeration) I do my best to be as accurate as possible and it was an annoyance that I constantly adjusted to. He would say he hiked 2 miles, I’d automatically adjust in my head to 1 mile. He said Lynard Skynard lived “down the road” I’d adjust it to “Somewhere in Florida”

      When we were breaking up, it was that I was “always” on Facebook or the Internet. Or that I “never” gave him sex…. or that I had way too many “Internet relationships” (meaning I was friends with his mother, father, sisters, aunt, cousins….none of whom gave me the time of day after learning we were divorcing and are now friends with Twatwaffle…. I blocked every single one of them the same day) “never” had time for him. (When he was going to nursing school and working) blah blah blah.

      I thought adjusting to the lie of exaggeration instead of calling him on it, was a loving thing to do, until he started using it against me

    • I’ve read it on this site before (sorry, can’t recall the original person who stated it) — but it goes something like this … If you have to explain basic human decency to your partner, it’s time to run for the hills.

      During the final days before implosion (after reading that bit of advice here), I would catch myself doing exactly that … explaining simple human decency. Really basic stuff like “lies by omission are still lies.”

      Don’t miss that!

      • I did that for my ENTIRE marriage. I had to explain to him how to be a decent human, don’t embarrass me at work functions by saying something wildly inappropriate or racist, don’t chase after the guy that accidentally cut you off in traffic, don’t insult my mother, and on and on and on. I don’t miss that at all, either!

      • JessMom,
        YES! This… “If you have to explain basic human decency to your partner, it’s time to run for the hills.”

        Among cheating and porn, the worst thing my STBX did was video tape me secretly for years, starting in the early 90s. When I pointed out to him (several times actually) after discovery that this was in fact, ILLEGAL, he said, “well, it wasn’t illegal when I did it.”

        Wow. No, maybe not illegal yet. But immoral and indecent, hell yes. I have two civil charges against him as well as the divorce.

        He still tries to say it was not a big deal. Even told our two adult sons that I was ‘exaggerating.’

        I really don’t have words anymore.

        • I don’t have words either about him taping you. Ughhhh, what a sick fuck. Did he ever say what his purpose was in that?? Eeewwwe.

  • So really anytime you see the term Trickle Truth just correct it in your mind to Trickle Lies. It is an attempt to deceive.

  • Yes! I was subject to “trickle truth”, otherwise known as admitting what you were already caught out in so many times. Mine lied by omission in various ways all of our relationship. I think the lies got bigger but maybe just in time I found out more, mostly by coincidence.
    I honestly don’t think he saw (or sees) lying by omission as being dishonest at all – or maybe he does know it, and just mindfucked/gaslighted me about that too.
    It took me a long time to realize what a good liar he was but I think the most truthful he probably ever said to me, not that long before he left was “sometimes I think I’m a psychopath I’m so good at lying”. Creepy.
    I hadn’t thought of it before but I wonder if he was referring to his lying to me – I was thinking he was referring to other people, but may well be not. Psychopath he certainly is (even if very well disguised).

    • It’s easy to lie if you don’t have a conscience and are lying to people who trust you. It’s disgusting to brag about being a liar. And I doubt he’s really that good at it, not that it matters. I’m sure an expert that is not emotionally tied to these fools could see what they are in two seconds.

      • You’re right. It sure didn’t take my MC to figure my cheater out.

      • Cheater said to me on D-day “it was easy to lie to you, you believed everything I said”. I lost count of the times I said to him “just tell me the truth”. Truth was he was telling me what I wanted to hear. I knew he was a liar, I just spackled over his shitty behaviour. It’s hard to admit you were duped by a really ‘good’ liar but the truth speaks for itself.

    • That cartoon is one of my favorites! I love the look on the cheater’s face as he attempts a lame gaslighting.

    • I seriously considered printing and framing this cartoon and sending it together with xh’s shit as per our legal agreement. But decided: 1) no $ or resources in general spent on sparkledick; 2) total no contact (except for cat pee on motheaten pullover, dog pee on paintings and useless trash in duffle bag together with sculptures wrapped in picture of flatterfuck).

  • You want another slap in the face? Ashley Madison has agreed to pay cheaters about $3000.00 each if a judge agrees. The more I see/hear/know the more I love my dog.

    • For some chumps who are not divorced yet, that $3000 may be considered marital assets. Too bad I’m not owed that $1500 from “Fun in Austin” (my cheater’s AM name).

    • WHAT?! I am divorcing and he did use that site. Or a version of it… ashleyrnadison. Look carefully at the letters. Same site from what I saw. Gotta go google this now and see if I can add to my marital assets.

  • Me: So I found a few unfamiliar numbers on the phone bill this month, I googled them and turns out they’re for Craigslist Hookers.

    Mr. Sparkles: Weird, it wasn’t me.

    Me: There was a curious charge on the checking account for a hotel room in XX town (about 5 miles from us). I called the hotel and got a receipt. It was registered to you. The date was the night you looked me in the eye and told me you were going to shoot some pool.

    Mr. Sparkles: I didn’t go to a hotel.
    Mr. Sparkles: Ok, I went to a hotel – TO THINK.
    Mr. Sparkles: Ok, I realize the Craigslist call was during the same time. I left before she got there.
    Mr. Sparkles: This is the FIRST TIME I have ever done anything like this. We never touch anymore. I’m lonely.

    Therapist: Why are you here?
    Mr. Sparkles: She doesn’t trust me.
    Me: So – he’s calling Craigslist hookers, going to hotel rooms (interruption)
    Mr. Sparkles: It was ONE hotel room – I told you that was the first time.
    Me: So then I got access to email account and found around 30 emails to various personal ads… one where he indicated he was a BiMWM.
    Mr. Sparkles: I KNEW YOU WERE WATCHING ME – that’s why I did it.
    Me: You used your name and sent a picture of yourself (from our son’s baptism day where you cropped me and him out of it)… but you were doing it to hurt me? How is that rational?
    Mr. Sparkles: SEE….. (to the therapist)…

    Trickle truth, gaslighting, mindfuck… oh my. Let the flying monkeys think I’m no contact with Mr. Sparkles because I’m still “angry and bitter about the divorce.” I know better. Good luck, Girl with Dogs, you’re going to need it (and a regular pap smear).

    • My X used the same strategy. He corrected me on details like “hotel rooms” instead of “room”, singular or plural, they’re lying anyway and we may have found out only half of the truth or even less. Yet they’re skilled in word games.
      He’s still saying he cheated only once, only emotionally because OW couldn’t have sex because of a virus. There dozens and dozens of OW and prostitutes. Usually after corrrecting my grammar or pronunciation about something I didn’t actually say, he immediately started shouting at me that I was a liar, that I twisted his words. With these kind of tricks he has destroyed my credibility. I have tons of undeniable evidence chats, dates, pics, bank accounts, but my family members, my son especially, repeats his accusations against me.

    • Ex also used Craig’s List and indicated he was a biWM. His excuse was he was hacked. His email was hacked and someone was using his email and picture to seek our bi men. It was crazy making! We were 4 years in to the relationship and he was so offended I would think he was bi!

  • Not telling us anything is about control, but it’s also about impression management. These folks care a whole lot about what people think about them, including you, and including themselves. They think of themselves as great and fantastic people that the world (i.e., you) has just done a great disservice to and made them do some not so great things.

    The last thing they want is the whole truth out there, because then they will get confronted with how shitty they’ve been by you and others. If nobody else knows, then their own minds allow them to bury or excuse their behavior. But they can’t very well do that if you confront them about what they’ve been doing. The mirror can be awfully ugly thing to look into if you’ve been doing ugly things.

    • I actually texted my mother-in-law to let her know that he’d cheated on me; and then when I found out they were moving in together, I texted her again. I have zero problem outing him as a cheater. His mom once told me that my ex is just like his dad – and that is NOT a compliment. She probably wasn’t too surprised by the whole thing.

    • Agreed. My XH (married almost 17 years) and his whore lost their shit when they found out I let his entire family know of their adulterous shenanigans. He always denied an affair, even when presented with a hotel reservation in BOTH of their names for a KING bed. You see, I had a “mid-life crisis-er”. He left because he wanted to be single, he didn’t leave me for another person.

      XH’s SIL sent me a pic (unsolicited and unwanted) of whore hanging on my newly ex’d husband (2 weeks after our 74 day divorce) at my ex inlaws on T-giving. I sent the pic to him and said: “No, you weren’t cheating!” “…and just out of curiosity, does the whore realize that everyone at that table today knows she’s a whore? I sent your dad and cousin a list of your credit card charges and timeline of your affair!”

      The gruesome twosome filed injunctions against harassment (whore) and a restraining order against me (adulterer) on their return from their “holiday”. They have married and I often wonder how she could face people that know she’s a slut – him too.

      • I am considering this as well, and I have the threat of a restraining order over me.

        How did you go about it?

        • I was devastated when he filed (the whore’s was served 10 days before his, some I’m sure she was behind it) as it was two weeks before Christmas.

          He claimed I stalked him in an airport in a different state – total fantasy as I could prove my whereabouts 1000 miles away. He also said I “threw divorce paperwork” at him. I suppose I am guilty of that, it was a two page summons that I flung at him (not even wadded up) when he served me the day before my 43rd birthday as I was getting ready to leave for an overseas trip. The whore claims I threatened her with “physical violence” and that I wanted to see her “crippled”. What I actually said was that I hope she gets “crippling MS” (her mom had it) and as for the “threat of physical violence”, I told her that she didn’t “need a problem like me” (I used to work with her boss and am friends with her co-workers. The MS comment is not something I am proud of saying, but there’s a big difference in what she implied. It would have been easy enough to prove they were liars, but my attorney was a judge pro tem. She said that these things in my state are notoriously difficult to fight. If I wanted to challenge them that I risked having a criminal misdemeanor and a “record”. She told me to hire an attorney that has defended people that have committed murder as you have to go in with a big gun. She said it is expensive and not worth the risk. My attorney told me to go into hiding, change my number because “This bitch is crazy and is trying to destroy you.” Speaking of big guns, I lost my 2nd amendment rights for a year. Both requested that I surrender my fire-arms to the sheriff. I have never owned or possessed a fire arm in my life.

          It’s been almost four years now since this all happened. He has been married to her for 2 years. I haven’t seen him since he had me served with divorce papers. Today, I laugh about what a wimp he looked like to stand in front of a judge and say that I threw divorce paperwork at him and that I “appeared to be standing by” for a flight he was on. I think it’s sad that our justice system allowed that to be considered abuse, but it is what it is. No contact has been a breeze since, so I suppose that is my silver lining (no kids). I hope your cheater doesn’t file a restraining order against you, but if he does, it’s not the end of the world. Best to you.

          • He probably will. He’s such a princess. Can’t call The Whore a cunt to his face.

            He’s accused me of stalking, which I have NOT done. I sent him some mean and relentless texts, after he told me his Twatwaffle reads all of them. Sent me into overdrive. I got warned about sending “lewd and lacivious” information because I called her the Magic Golden Pussy and asked her (through his text) if he licks her asshole. (I thought it was funny.) I didn’t even send a dick picture.

            But I have not contacted her at all, by any means. In fact, I told the sheriff that that bitch better stay the hell away from me. I found her Facebook page and promptly blocked her, I’ve had his blocked for awhile. But I find it interesting that they want me to “leave them alone” yet I’m the one who had to block them there.

            • 1.) “if he licks her asshole. (I thought it was funny.) I didn’t even send a dick picture”. Haha! It IS funny! Probably a judge won’t laugh though. I had some zingers in the texts to my XH about his whore and his “3 inch dick”. I picked on her hideous nose and bad skin. She mentioned that in her injunction. (I hear she’s very insecure).

              2.) They get addicted to the drama. Once they did their little court bit, he still came back to engage me. I had to hire an attorney to deal with him. My attorney said: “Mr Cheater, it’s ironic how you purport to not want contact with my client, yet you’re going out of your way to try to engage her. This is harassment and bullying.” Haven’t had anything from him since (It’s been 3 years now, thank God!).

              3.) You can’t change the past and you’re smart to block them. They’re not worth the attention and you really don’t need the hassle of dealing with the courts. Stay above it and don’t give them another thought!

              Best to you!

    • I haven’t had an actual conversation face to face with STBX in a year. The last things I said to him was that I didn’t believe there was anything good in him and that he should leave because he didn’t add any value to our family anymore. Saying something like this is NOT in my nature but I am so glad that I did it. I may never get to tell him all the other things I think but at least I got to do that.

  • When my daughter was younger she was a constant liar lied just for the sake of lying. Asswipe hated it told me when i first met him he hated liars and being lied to more than anything else in the world. The kids knew it and she lied anyway my sons werent nearly so bad. Im positive i did my share of fibbing to keep out of trouble but as a young adult and beyond i dont lie its disrespectful. And nothing will get me out of my chair quicker than disrespect. As asswipe spent the last four years of my sufferage lying just for the sake of lying and my daughter started lying to me again over a year ago. I asked both at different times.

    Do you enjoy being lied to?

    Answer from him….. NO I HATE BEING FUCKING LIED TO!!!

    Me…then why do you lie?

    Him… answer bit his lips and looked at his feet.


    Himm… i didnt want to hurt your feelings and make you sad.

    Exact same response from my daughter but minus the anger towards me and one other quote from her….mom i didnt want you to be dissappointed in me.

    Oh for fucks sake!! What a load of bullshit! A uke would break down under a load of crap so large!!

    No they didnt care about hurting my feelings they only cared about their own feelings my girl has feelings asswipe has none he just didnt want to hear it deal with it or suffer the outcome of it. He truly is a pod with no heart no soul totally black inside. He feigns feelings for show. So that was both of their truthiness ommission of truths by avoidance of telling truths. And they are both great at pretending nothing happened just sweep it under the rug. My feelings matter to my daughter so she going into quiet mode cause she knows. Him he lives in lala land and one day hes gonna lie to the wrong person and it will be bad. Me im somewhat happily sailing towards meh and dont wish him dead. Best i can do.

    • SAME. My two stepsons would lie ALL THE TIME (heck, they still do!) and my ex HATED it. But now that I know who he is, I want to yell at him, “Where do you think they LEARNED to lie so easily? FROM YOU, ASSHOLE.”

  • Another thing I have come to realize is how many ways technology enables the lying. In the last couple years before d-day, cheater would say more and more just text me. I preferred voice calls for a variety of reasons. The whole text thing was so irritating. I would text him a simple question that I felt required a brief response and he would give some one word reply that totally missed the mark. Every text turned into a game of 20 questions. Again control.

  • There is only ONE logical course of action when dealing with someone that you know, conclusively, to be a liar.

    Assume at all times that they are lying.

    That does NOT mean that you assume the opposite of what they tell you to be true. But it DOES mean that you have to deal with them clinically, without emotion, and demand everything be in writing when dealing with them, no exceptions.

    Lying is lying, it doesn’t need fancy names or word salad or pretzel logic. Do the smart thing, and institute ironclad boundaries on any and all communications that you have to have with lying fuckwits like cheating spouses.

    • Nanki– I solved the problem. I went no contact. Liar X is dead to me.

      No more pretzeling or trying to unwind the skein of fuckedupedness.

      • Perfect! Wish I could do so, but with co-parenting, it’s not possible. So, for me, the next best thing is written communication *only*.

      • No contact. Truth and light. They hate it. Especially when they try to rope you back in.

  • I knew my ex was lying but he refused to tell me the truth, but when I moved out and he was alone he suddenly came out of his lying hole. Then later when we were discussing possibly getting back together he lays the big bomb; I flew my screw buddy down to our house while you were visiting our son and grandchildren. Wow the truth comes out but so what if I’m a dick. Why didn’t he just come out and say I can’t handle the truth!! POS

  • Trickle truth is like fake news. The trickle invalidates the truth.

    Another way of viewing it is the cheater saying “Just let me know how far I can pull the wool over your eyes. Show me where the line is, and that’s where I’ll pull the wool to.”

    Hugs. Strength. Peace.

  • Mine would like to say to the kids and me that he is a terrible liar. I believed him. Ha.

    • Yep. Mine loved to say the opposite to throw me off. I know now to pay attention to actions not words.

  • My cheater as much as acknowledged that he was a lying opportunist when I blurted out, “Why didn’t you Tell Me About This?”, he replied, “I didn’t want to tell you until I knew it was a sure thing with her[OW].” Oh and yeah, cue the fake tears. He had the sadz that he’d been caught and exposed. Then he was surprised that I kicked his lying ass out of our house that very night, after 18 years together.

    Just so very used to getting away with it. Game Over.

    • Oh and yeah. Four years later now I heard through the grapevine Cheater and OW broke up. Oh my! Guess it wasn’t as sure a thing as WisedUp being a chumpy chump till the end.

      • I really, really hope I hear the same news with my ex and his whore some day.

        • Yeah, but then we risk them cycling around to us again. Shudder. X’s current GF/AP deserves everything she is now getting, IMHO.

          • I can honestly say that right now, I am glad STBX is distracted by OW. The fewer texts I get from him the better. But I would still love to see their relationship blow up. And I know now that any cycling back to me would be fruitless. He would then move on to another (or more likely have her lined up first).

            • I wouldn’t take him back if you paid me an enormous sum. I want them to be miserable. I want her to cheat on him and make his life hell. Soon, though, I will not care AT ALL what they do. That’s where I want to be emotionally. MEH.

  • Amen sista — Preach! It’s crap that when you are out of the relationship for some time when you can start putting all the pieces together and figure out ALL the times they were lying. Ugh!!!! We were to close in the relationship, to emotionally tied, to blah blah blah…. to see ALL the red flags. I’ve been divorced from my Narc for 3 years now. The raw emotions of hurt, sadness, etc. can still flare up every now and then but especially when I realize how often he was lying, cheating, etc and how I reacted to it by blowing it off, sweeping it under the rug, how it damaged me and my kids. My lack of reaction and holding him accountable teed me up for him to continue to treat me poorly and for me to continue to be the victim. It was a bad cycle!!! I’m so thankful to be out now and healing so I can be healthier for my me and my kids. The emotional pain still flares when my Narc pulls his Narc-holishness out on my kids (lying, bullying, etc). Ive gotten better but by Meh is stolen routinely due to how bad his Narc-holishness can be. Instead of sweeping it under the rug or over emotionalizing about it, I’ve learned to be more strategic about it. All communication is in writing and I call him out on it strategically so the courts and counselors can see what he is doing! To those who eyes are just beginning to open, I hope that if you get one thing from this post and from our responses is that Mindfuckery is alive and well in your dynamic. Own it, accept it and learn how to process it and get over it in a healthy way. That was one of the hardest things for me to wrap my mind around because I didn’t want to be known as a “Chump”. Learning to own it in a healthy way helps get you over the hump so you can start focusing on how to increase your bullshit radar, heal and be strategic since for most of you are about to deal with a nasty legal battle. Hope my experiences help you some way.

  • My ex loved it when he controlled the flow of information, he was like a trickle truth expert- but he nearly lost his mind when he found out several people who belonged to the same secret group on Facebook were sending me screen shots of all his shenanigans with the other woman. That heads up gave me a few weeks head start on getting his phone and messaging records (his code was common knowledge at that point) for my lawyer. He DEMANDED to know how much I knew and who had told me. Then he insisted I cut ties with those “liars” immediately!
    It drove him completely out of his mind and I have to say it was mildly satisfying to trickle truth his ass for a week or so while I spent time with my lawyer getting ready.
    By the time I filed, his imagination had done a number on his head and he assumed I had more proof than I actually did, so I didn’t have to fight him too hard for what I wanted.

    This same courageous group of Facebook people (I found out later) had sent screenshots to the wives of two other guys who the OW had been doing the same thing with. Apparently she cast a wide net and managed to snag a few!

  • I recently came across MORE trickled truthiness of the asshat this year . I know. I know! Cheaters cheat, liars lie and thieves steal. It still knocked the wind out of me.

    His attempt to minimize the truth, rewrite our collective history and attempt to control and shame ME re ignited my WHITE HOT RAGE against this asshole.

    It’s like CL said, truthiness is another form of manipulation and control of an abuser to their target victim/s. The additional victims for me include the kids since this sick fucker has NEVER been invested in a committed partnership ever before, during or since the legal contract. Image management and fake-ass fakery are his goals with my kids.

  • Whatever I went through divorcing that prick, and what ever I will have to go though from here on out to enforce the MSA he now regrets signing (although I’m sure not as much as his AP regrets him signing it.) will be well worth it to never again stand there with the screen capture of his iPhone tracked to a hotel in our town and him telling me I was bat shit crazy for thinking he would be at a hotel, and then explaining how the end of us would be because I couldn’t trust him and that I needed to “get over” the 4 previous affairs. He has “friends that are women”.
    I ended up begging for his forgiveness in that conversation.
    We’re the ones in the fog. They are awful, and until you get in the clear you just can’t believe it.

  • When I was dating my exh, he was friends with a married couple that lived next door. Something seemed “off” so I asked him if he’d ever slept with the wife. He told me no. Eleven years later, I find that, indeed, he had slept with her…before and during our ENTIRE marriage! When I asked him why he’d lied all those years ago, he said, “I never lied to you, you asked me if I “slept”with her…I never “slept” with her *puts prayer hands to the side of his face*, I FUCKED her, but I never “slept” with her “. Incredible.

  • At first the doctor my nurse wife befriended was just a friend, then it was “he might be gay”. Then it was I was at his house doing homework, oh wait he was there I guess but he was doing housework the whole time.

    Then it became “I’m sorry it took this kind of situation for you to realize what kind of husband you’ve been to me” (lol what?). Then it was I need space to just figure things out, I still have faith in our marriage. And that’s where it ended since she never came back and I never saw or heard from her again. They’re still together, have fun with that relationship Mr. Dr!

    Looking back it’s amazing how much shit I put up with, luckily for only a month. I know a lot of us would love to go back in time and put our current mind in our past bodies, with what we know now and how to handle these situations. I would have loved to have called her out on all her bullshit.

  • Trickle Lies from Porky Pig.

    Some background information. Two months prior to Dday, I started tracking Porky Pig’s movements via the Find Friends app on our iPhones (to this day I cannot tell you why). He was spending weekends in a town in Pennsylvania 5 hours from where we live. His cover story was that he was helping his stepmother take care of his sick father. They don’t live in the town where he was.

    I google-mapped the location, went to street view, and read the address off the mailbox in front. Googled that. Found out who lived there. The name was not familiar to me. I was stumped for a while.

    I hired a PI to track him. The person he was with at the beach that weekend was the same person who owned the house in Pennsylvania.

    In April, I told Porky Pig I knew about Yoga Whore. He replied, “I’m sorry you had to find out that way.” I’m still wondering “what way” he thinks I found out? He never asked how I knew.

    Here is a chronology of Porky Pig’s explanations, as told over the past 3 months:

    1. She’s just a friend.
    2. I didn’t start dating her until after I moved out.
    3. She’s nice, I like her, I enjoy spending time with her, but I don’t love her.
    4. We didn’t have sex until after I moved out.
    5. I emailed her once in February – I haven’t seen her in 40 years.
    6. I don’t care what your stupid app says, I may have spent the night at her house but we never had sex (Bill Clinton: “I did NOT have sex with that woman!”).
    7. I only took her to dinner twice before I moved out.
    8. I was looking for some companionship during a very difficult time in my life.
    9. There was no affair.
    10. There were no marital assets spent on her other than dinner. Okay, I’ll give you $250 for the dinners.

    Here is the reality.

    1. There are photos and videos illustrating pretty graphically that Yoga Whore was and is more than a friend.
    2. I created a visual timeline for my lawyer which includes Find Friends screen grabs, receipts, and photos that tracks his relationship with Yoga Whore dating back to February. I suspect that when we subpoena his and Yoga Whore’s financial records we will discover much more.
    3. I also recently discovered photos of Yoga Whore downloaded on 9 November 2013 to a backup USB… that’s four years ago, not four months ago. Metadata doesn’t trickle lie.
    4. Based on Find Friends, there is a lot more than “two dinners” involved. In one example, he and Yoga Whore flew to Florida, stayed at a resort in Delray Beach for several days, drove to the Keys, stayed at a resort there for three days, then flew home. I don’t think $250 is going to work for recovery of marital assets.

    I have yet to tell Porky Pig about the private investigator, photos, and videos. When I detonate that bomb, I want to be there to see his brain explode.

    One final comment, then I’ll stop.

    The narcissism required to say he needed her companionship to get him through a difficult time is gobsmacking. Because, of course, it wasn’t difficult at all for my daughter, the dog, and me to be deserted.

    • Meh or Bust, I’m not trying to be ugly, but how old are Yoga Whore and Porky Pig? Geezers committing adultery is so creepy. And I can say that cause I’m geezer age myself…

        • Thanks, Meh or Bust. I’m that age too and can’t imagine making a fool of myself as PP and yoga whore are doing, lol. That is the age to be wise and refined and be a role model to younger folks. They are so ridiculous.

    • I know. This describes their fucked up thinking about their actions. In no way can they fathom that you and your daughter could be hurt by his actions. It is truely the mindset of these creeps. The only person ‘hurting’ in the relationship or family is the cheater. WTF. This is a good indication that you and your child are only objects or extensions of the narcopath.

      Keep your PI details to yourself and your attorney. It will be good leverage in in your divorce. Do NOT share what you know with your asshat.

      • The only person I “share” with these days is my lawyer. Here’s another thing asshat Porky Pig hasn’t figured out yet. Me with a lot of time on my hands, a computer, and all the boxes of his stuff in the garage is a bad combination…

        I’ve been told judges like evidence to be clear, simple to understand, and visually compelling.

        I used to be a graphic designer.

    • At least you have the “facts”! That’s pretty hard to dispute. Like you, I had to be a detective to get any sort of truth!

      Get ready for the next phase of mindfuck…. you are a controlling stalker who just can’t let go. Uh yeah, of course his spending marital assets and your looking out for your own best interest makes YOU the crazy one! Alas, his behavior will forever be because of something about you – that’s how cheaters operate …. blameshifting!

      • I’m listening GAB. If I have learned one thing over the past four months it’s that the chumps here know *exactly* what will happen next. Cheaters have zero originality. So, if you or someone else says to watch out for [insert whatever here] – I now just wait for it to happen rather than wonder if it *will* happen.

    • Excellent detective work — and, oh, how I wish we could all accompany you to witness his brain exploding! A touch of justice is always a nice sight to behold. 🙂

      • I always enjoy a good cheater brain explosion. It goes great with some tequila, lime, and maybe a little popcorn too.

    • Meh or Bust,
      I just read your post.
      I am blown away. YOU are amazing! Simply amazing!
      It is all horrible, sad, nasty “stuff” but, Meh or Bust, I want to do a happy dance right here and now and I wish with all my heart that you and your beautiful daughter could join me.
      The reason I want to dance is that YOU are MIGHTY, all his lies, trickle truths, etc. YOU have found out the whole truth and you are going to blow his ass from ” there to kingdom come “.
      Oh, Meh or Bust, I want to be there beside you when sorry sack learns all you have learned. THE TRUTHS! The look on his face will be priceless, could you take a picture.
      Actually, I will be there, all of CN will be there, right beside you Meh or Bust. You will feel us in your heart and you will hear us roar!

    • God, its unreal!!! Like peacekepper said, I want to be there with you too. I never knew about these ways to track so I still dont know much, but enough. I am so sorry, fkg ass.

  • I had one particularly excruciating episode of trickle truth– three weeks at the end of false marital counseling,

    Brief background: I accused ex of cheating less than five years into the marriage, fellow grad student. He gaslighted, I believed him. Thirteen years later (and another gaslighting episode) he kinda says he wants out of the marriage, can’t come out and say divorce, etc. so, hope springs eternal… Marriage counseling is the way to go, right?! He had been working out of state, training for his dream job.
    Two months into false marital counseling–
    Week 1: remember 13 years ago, he did care for her (emotional only), it wasn’t just the obsessed fellow grad student pursing him
    Week 2: there is a woman in dream job location that he has feelings for, only emotional. In nine months he had never mentioned her name. I had heard and met other colleagues. When pressed, he loved her, had stopped socializing months ago since they were both married (note, he still has not asked for a divorce at this point). She was on the same team as him at work, but would not be traveling with him on next two assignments,
    Week 3: remember that episode 13 years ago, yeah, it got physical, but only one time!

    over the next two weeks– thanks to FB stalking of suspected OW, I discover she participated on the next work trip.
    Next counseling appt, I forced him to say “I want a divorce”

    And the marriage was over…. This particular trickle truth episode was excruciating, along with the fact that I had to file, I found the mediator, I had to find him a place to live that was would suitable for the kids, etc. if only he had come straight out and said he wanted out…

  • Lol. Cheater boy on why he continued to lie about his relationship with the current slut and the others long after he was caught: “You say mean things about them, so why would I tell you the truth?”

    Yup. All about protecting the fragile egos of all of the OW.

    Right after dday, he said this: “Well, look what happened when I told you the truth! I lost you and you kicked me out!

    Of course, by that time, the truth was quite the weighty thing, but it is important to note that he never voluntarily told any of it, limiting his confessions to what was known or very strongly suspected, and downplaying their severity.

    More cheater boy: “I only had four affairs.” Times that by at least two or three, and throw in all of the involvements and trysts that don’t count as affairs to him, and the number is no doubt mind-boggling.

  • Omg STBX is the master at half truths, omissions, minimizations and trickle! He uses it ALL the time, and even with our kids! After years of putting up with this shit I don’t even believe a word that comes from his mouth!

    Me: You Have to reschedule our kids parent teacher confrence cause your working?
    Him: Yes.
    Me: Oh, you need to stay overnight in a town 40 minutes away, that in the past 17 years of your job you’ve never worked out of that office?
    Him: Yes, we have a dinner meeting, and will be drinking, I do not want to drive.
    Me: Oh, how responsible of you, how about just not drinking.
    Him: I’m not going to not have a drinks because you think I shouldn’t!
    Me: Oh, so drinking comes before your kids meeting you’ve known about for months?
    Him: I have no control over other people’s schedules, this meeting was a last minute plan because it worked for everyone else’s schedule. (Notice how he doesn’t even address what he has control of (drinking)… it’s someone else’s fault – of course!)

    ^^^^this^^^^ kind of thing happened throughout our whole marriage, in pretty much every confrontational conversation. Alas, this one was after I already filed, so really I gave two shits, all except for for our sons well being was coming after his cock! There was no meeting (which I confirmed weeks later (but already knew) because I have a friend that works in his office), he was screwing his new girlfriend who happened to live in that town. The next morning he accidentally sent me a picture of a song playing on the radio (On My Mind)
    My response: wrong person
    His response: Nope, wanted to ask about the parent software and a few other things.
    God he must have thought I was an idiot. Well, I guess I was for many years, but not by choice!

    No wonder chumps struggle with trust, 18 years of having intuition twisted and used to mind fuck you into beleiveing it’s simply your misunderstanding of the situation that has lead to your anger. Nope, it’s your behavior and lying that lead to my anger lying douchebag!

    • Oh gosh, it must have been painful to deal with someone like this, not to mention exhausting! Something that should have been normal conversation, became incredibly difficult, very confrontational, illogical and unpleasant. Sheesh! Your requests were so reasonable, and his response was so self centered and selfish each time. I can’t imagine you having to put with this for almost 20 years! I think I would have gone insane from interacting with someone like this on a regular basis. I’m SO glad you’re out, really.

    • I actually have that conversation documented, as I had to start documenting things right after I filed, because I literally thought I might be crazy. 17 years of gaslighting will do that to a person!

      Good news, I’m not crazy! I just had to stop hitting the hopium pipe.

      I had written into our parenting agreement that any agreements we make outside of the parenting agreement, must be in writing in the OFW software. That is how much STBX lies!

      • I also doubted my sanity (over two decades married) — in a very real way. I couldn’t identify what was real or fake, a truth or a lie, etc. Decision-making became nearly impossible even for minor things like, “What should I wear today?”

        The fact that this person (I use the term “person” loosely) drove me to the brink of insanity with his gaslighting, lies, minimizing, etc. is still stunning to me.

        It’s pure evil to consciously do this to another person.

    • That’s what they do and they get away with it for decades. Liars have such an easy life. We believe and live in following their clues until we find evidence. But after we have found out that they cheaters and liars, it happens that common people generally tend to believe them and find us, the chumped, obsessively jealous or bitter or crazy.

  • Yep. It’s why I insist on transparency these days. That is, people who tell you more than you even need to know, just to make sure you’re comfortable. Clipped answers and “having to dig” just to have a simple conversation aren’t things I’ll put up with anymore. Sure, there are personality types who are like that, but I understand that those don’t work for me now or ever. When someone only admits to what you can prove, it’s damaging, as my cheater did/did not. I’m smart enough to know that was only the tip of the iceberg. I’ve evolved an “if there’s smoke there’s fire” mentality because I understand that good people just don’t leave you hanging, esp if they know you have a past trauma with this. And funnily enough, I’ve learned that people who withhold the truth instinctively trigger me; people who are transparent DO NOT. My current partner is above board about everything, never gets defensive, is always considering me in everything. And I very rarely question him further, because he gives me so much. That’s what it’s supposed to feel like. Part of the gaslighting is making us believe that our questions and suspicions aren’t reasonable when they ARE literally for anyone with a pulse.

  • My ex got pissed when caught after trickle truthing for years.
    He told me a lot in a fit of anger. He later told me he was just telling me what I wanted to hear and that he never cheated.
    We’ll just say divorce has been great for me and karma hates a cheating liar.

  • I don’t understand why Chump Lady always slams the RIC. For only $6,000, you and Coy Bob can spend a weekend at an Infidelity Fix-It Ranch. Helluva deal! After you’ve spent the day learning about everything you did wrong, thus forcing Loretta to become wayward, you get to enjoy a delicious homecooked meal, then sit around the campfire with other broken saddle pals singing Happy Trails and bonding. Make sure you pack appropriately for the weekend, Little Buckaroos and Buckarettes. “Amarillo By Morning” should be retitled “Amarillo By Monday Morning” with detailed lyrics about how you and Asswipe are now magically healed.

  • I lived through the trickle douche phase as well as all the other cheater tricks and cheater script.

    Was separated for years after I threw her out and got divorced last August.

    My cheater ex was an above average looking women and she knew it.

    Both of us were at our son’s wedding last weekend.

    I was shocked as shit when I saw her because she gained a shit ton of weight, Jabba the Hutt weight.

    Everyone kept telling me how good I look at the wedding.

    Justice motherfucker!

    • Kuddos for surviving son’s wedding and finding some justice! I did that last June for my son’s wedding. It is not for the faint-hearted!!

      • Two of my sons have married since Day.

        My exes AP was NOT invited. In fact I’ve never seen them together. With that being said, the weddings were not so bad in that the ex and I managed to avoid each other.

  • I’ve learning from reading other blogs and comments here that my husband is an evil narcissist. There was no trickle down, there was nothing. I confronted him three times, the first two without evidence and the last with evidence. Each time he took the 5th. He didn’t say a word. My answers came in how much he started shaking and how many tumblers of vodka he kept pouring as he lit one cigarette after another. The day after the 3rd confrontation that had evidence he left and never came back. I don’t know if it was because he knew I was not going to tolerate cheating (I’ve always maintained it was a deal breaker) or if it was his cowardly way out. But, I don’t have anything to say since I know for a fact now that he cheated. I think the trickle-down is abusive. Doubt is abusive. When doubt is planted it creates a hostile environment in the home. That’s abuse. It’s passive-aggressive abuse, but abuse nevertheless.

    • For my STBX, the stonewalling silent-treatment was his preferred means of letting me know I wasn’t getting an answer. The trickle-truth only came later, after I “nagged” (his view, not mine) him into responding.

      It was like dealing with a three year old who puts his fingers in his ears and starts singing so he can’t hear you. But, with a three year old, it’s natural given the low-level emotional development and social experience. It is assumed that they will learn to cope with life as they grow. My STBX chose not to …..

      I like that you pointed out that the doubt created is a fundamental harm. Doubt runs from the heart of the marriage through every vein, every capillary. Doubt is a slow but lethal poison in a marriage.

  • Trickle truth is all about protecting those covert ways and means. It saves them the effort of having to come up with new methods of keeping their shitty behavior hidden. It says loud and clear “I have no intention of stopping what I am doing.” Wish it hadn’t taken me so long to understand that truth.

    • It’s ok Dixie Chump. It’s not our fault that we don’t speak the language of “Dysfunction, deceit and lies”. How are we supposed to understand that kind of dynamic when we are innocent. It’s by experience we learn to connect the dots and painfully figure it out. Trickle Truth = No intention of stopping what I’m doing. Innocent people aren’t born with the ability to decipher that kind of language, but associating with a cheater does teach us unfortunately.

  • Step 1: Accept that you will never know the whole truth.

    Step 2: Accept that even if your spouse did tell you the whole truth, he (or she) has so premnantly destroyed trust that you wouldn’t believe him anyway.

    Step 3: Accept that a marriage within trust is not actually a marriage. Then file for divorce.

    These steps aren’t easy, but necessary.

    • Exactly. Cheaters think that the truth is none of our business. I don’t want to be married to someone who thinks that our marriage is none of my business, regardless of how much truth I’m able to squeeze out of him.

    • #2 is a big one. A lot of chumps seem to have uncovered evidence. I just got a confession. His prostitution use had been going on for years. I had no idea. The numbers were right there in the bank account (ATM withdrawals) and I didn’t bat an eye. I made the “mistake” of seeing him as a trustworthy adult who could share a bank account with me and not be scrutinized to death (and we reviewed finances together often, in addition to me reviewing it periodically on my own) or have his whereabouts questioned beyond the occasional check in. Do I believe that he did what he said he did? Yes, but even though he supposedly told me everything, I will never know the extent and I don’t want to know. The likelihood is that it’s what he said plus much, much more. Even if he told me everything though, I wouldn’t believe any of it…or more accurately, I wouldn’t believe that what he said is all that’s happened. And so I backed away from peering too far over the edge lest I fall in.

      • “And so I backed away from peering too far over the edge lest I fall in”

        this is really important for me. I dont know how many affairs she had over the course of our marriage. The one I found out about was enough. I need to remember that regardless of her gaslighting it was not all bad.

      • ChumpOnIt

        Could have written this post! Also got a confession about ‘fucking whores for years’, said with glee. WTF. No shame just satisfaction he could finally let me know what he was really thought of me and our marriage. Then took it back, of course. Nup. Too bad, saw his real face. I’ll never know how many prostitutes, play dates, flirty meet ups and affair partners (besides the toad he finally left me for) he had over the nearly 30 years, 25 married. I just trust that he sucks. But still wish all this wasn’t happening, hey. It was all there in our bank account records and I never checked because I trusted him.

        Still flat lying about the toad who he is happily ‘secretly’ living with. It really bums him out that I call ‘bullshit’. Turd.

  • Trickle Truth, or Truth its all the same end they are cheating, they know they are cheating and they want to keep cheating as long as we the chump allow them to get away with it. Do you want to hang around for more trickle truth or call it what it is “he’s having an affair” and move on. We all have to face the fact that we have been chumped and get down to the brass tacks of the situation. Divorce or Reconcil. Just to let you know reconciliation is a continuation of being chumped. These cheaters have a flawed character that is broken and they don’t even think they are broken its the chump that needs help so my friend its all a waste of valuable time. Trickle truth to drag it out longer or just say TRUTH and move onto the healing process and taking care of you.

  • We all know by now that we’ll never get the WHOLE truth from these frauds! Trust me, my Ex went to his grave with his secrets! They would rather put their dick/boob in a meat grinder than give you any information about all the sleazy things they have said or done. And I don’t believe it’s because they are shamed or embarrassed about their deceit. They are acutely aware of the fact that you would probably crack their selfish little pin heads to a pulp with a hammer if they told you the unvarnished truth! Suffice it to say that if you know they have cheated then it’s over! Buh bye asshole’

    • So true, Roberta. Mine was willing to go to the grave (attempted suicide) rather than give me the truth — and the truth was, genuinely, all I wanted. Just one speck of respect for me, to allow me full decision-making power for my life. I needed to know what in the hell I had been dealing with. I tried everything from asking nicely, to yelling, etc.

      Nothing but bare minimum trickle truth to what I had already discovered on my own. Even then, he minimized the heck out of it. I had to finally accept that I will never know what really happened.

      I agree that there’s no shame or embarrassment with these jerks. The dark look on STBX’s face and the condescension in his voice when I asked for the truth allowed me to see clearly that he was proud of his “other” life — and he was determined that I wouldn’t tarnish it by holding him accountable. So revolting.

      • Jess Mom, Gotta love the “condescension”. Bet there was a smirk or two, also. At least that was my experience. Can’t believe I put up with that shit for sooooo long.

        • Oh, heavens yes! The smirk was always a prime indication that I was dealing with teen-agery, angst-ridden, angry, stonewalling, jackass.

          Trying to have a conversation and seeing the smirk always made my stomach bottom-out. It kind of felt like Dante’s Inferno … “Abandon all hope ye who enter here.”

      • JessMom,
        Not one spec of truth, you are so correct.
        I don’t even believe the first name of OW was her real name. To me, it was always, and remains, apparent he was very protective of her. He felt about “her” how he had never felt about anyone else ever.( so he said).
        Oh, ok fuckwit, too bad you met me, married me, had children with me first.
        With the affair, she became the other half of “we” ……..He said she felt bad about taking him away from our little girl. Dumbfounded I stupidly asked, “”What about me?” He replied. ” WE never talked about you”.
        It is like you and I, JessMom, we never existed when they were with OW.
        In my mind and in my heart, as in your’s JessMom, the RESPECT word always comes up. Sadly that is one character trait cheaters will never possess.

        I know I just have to keep remembering CL, CN explanation words for them, TRUST THAT THEY SUCK, etc!
        I learn a lot from your posts JessMom.
        In my eyes YOU are mighty!

  • My favorite line from STBX that I would categorize as trickle truth is:
    “You asked me a long time ago if I had cheated on you besides OW#1. I did but I did not want to add insult to injury.”

    Nice. So you lied to me instead and now are letting things trickle out. I still have no idea of the extent you cheated. And lying to me is a bigger injury than than truth. At least then I could have saved myself 2 years of pick me dancing and trying to save our marriage (which was not real). Instead, I was kept from being able to make a choice for my life based on facts. The injury of the cheating doesn’t even come close to comparing to the injury of the lies.

  • Mr. Cheater Pants was talking on the phone @ 2:30 and he hung up the call without saying bye just a “I gotta go”
    Me: Mr. C that was rude.
    Mr. C: It was “male friend” that called me drunk. (drunk dialing)
    Me: Mr. C if I request a the statement of the cell phone UNDER MY NAME can I VERIFY this info❓❓
    The last day of BS. That was the day I decided to start the divorce. One month before my plans but it was worth it. Now he will keep lying to his “male friend”
    PS These creeps are demonds and enjoy lying at us at some point I knew he was cheating on me and I was playing dumb while lining my ducks. Everytime he went to the city where howorker was he gave me an A to Z explanation of his Agenda. Mr. C: “We have meeting to discuss this and that then we have a dinner” Never talked about this just on that particular situation/city so I think they do enjoy just to tell us lies to hurt us since we “do not know” this is the scary part. If we are not there it is not necessary to give details. God knows what is on their minds when they tell us the “truth”. ?

  • “I didn’t see her or talk to her at all until after I moved out! We’re still just friends.”
    “I mean, I started to like her as soon as I moved out, but nothing’s happened.”
    “Well actually, now that you’ve caught me in a lie, I started kissing her after I moved out.”
    “Well actually, now that I want to wreckoncile, I slept with her the weekend I moved out.”
    “I never saw her on any of my trips before that, including that secret hotel stay you found out about.”
    “Oh wait, I saw her a few of those trips, and I was talking to her on the phone on that hotel.”
    “Oh wait, I’ve always had feelings for her…”

    I will never know the full story. This bothers me immensely. All I can do is round up…WAY up…and walk away.

    • I doubt a lot of us ever will, and maybe thats a good thing, because what i did know, haunted me for a loooooong time.
      For the first year or so, i would see a picture of an event, wedding, vacation, party, and id freeze, calculating the time frame to the timeline of the affair, and it would be a gut punch everytime. Hard stuff. The 3 year anniversary weekend in Yosemite, yep, im pregnant with our daughter that trip, he prolly spent alot of time trying to figure out how to reach her. Bone crushing, deflating pain.

    • Sounds just like the slow reveal to dday#2 for me. At this point, I just assume that the worst that I imagine is the truth. almost every time I feared something over the last 4 years, the truth has actually been even worse.

      One night stand to no protection to possibly pregnant to who knows if it’s mine (she’s a slut) to she had a baby to paternity test is positive to eventually admitting after OW#2 that it was a much bigger affair (that he then just ghosted when she got pregnant). And that is just one example of the bad crap. Always is worse than the trickle…

  • I’ve always wondered if my ‘trickle truth’ was more, ‘truth by commission’.

    By the time I had it all figured out, was the first time I brought it up.

    SC: So, she regularly came to our house and cooked in my kitchen?
    Him: Yup

    SC: So, you cooked up a bunch of exotic dishes?
    Him: Yup (he was a good cook)

    SC: So, you used the steam room together, the hot tub and my lap pool (which I work out regularly in)??
    Him: Yup (and a stupid smirk)

    SC: So, you kenneled our dogs and let her dogs come into the house instead?
    Him: Yup

    SC: And, you paid for first class airline tickets to fly her with you to business trips? How much did that add up to?
    Him: Yup, and $40g’s, I’ll deposit in your account immediately.

    SC: And, you took her to x, y and z places in our luxury motorhome?
    Him: Yup (smirk)

    SC: And, those were her panties I found in the bed?
    Him: Yup. (another smirk)

    He was sure free with the information about anything I asked and he actually volunteered a couple things I didn’t want to know. I did not WANT to know the uglies about what they did, not one bit.
    It was enough I had all the proof and he was wiggling like a trapped animal when my lawyer got hold of his lawyer.

    However, he never once volunteered that he was having an affair. It took me a year of work to get the proof.

    • Ughhhh, she chump, you really deserve an award for not killing this disgusting mother fucker straight out. What a turd.

  • Yep! I found an earring in the bed which he said was his sisters (she cleaned his house because, he used her & ruined her life blah blah but, he rewarded her with a cleaning job! She was cleaning his latest OW’s abode last I heard!?) I also found one in backseat of a car he sold me ( he is a used car salesman & ex fireman haha)…contradiction or what! He said it must have been previous owner???? Anyway the trickle truth was all I got but, I prefer to call it verbal diarrhoea aka BS! It all trickles in the end!

  • After trickle-truthing me for ~40 years, The Village Idiot had the balls to tell me that MY communication sucked! Now that he’s marrying Debbie Does Dallas – she dumped her own chump of 40+ years to be with my blue ribbon XH – I believe it’s just a matter of time till he starts trickling again. Unless, of course, it’s already underway. Good luck DDD, you’re going to need it!

    • My red sandals, since the lying, aka trickle truth, is a character flaw I doubt it’s even stopped at all. And lucky him, Debbie Dallas probably does it too. We know she a cheater, ergo a liar as well. Always goes together..

      • Anita, exactly… a character flaw, a personality defect.

        I’m sure The Village Idiot and Debbie Does Dallas both believe they’ve “traded up”, which is pathetic in its own right. Yet it baffles me that either one of them would ever trust the other. If a spouse of 40 YEARS is completely expendable, what makes you believe that you’re not? Delusion? Hubris? Denial? Blind faith? Sheer stupidity?

  • HMMm so much to choose from:
    – the letter found in basement from god level boss detailing his work affair in 2006 and a final warning as a senior director this should have been declared before he accepted the post
    – the receipts for double rooms in hotels
    – the burner phones x 2
    – the I love you messages on said phones from women at work
    -knickers found in my bedroom (not mine)
    – the holiday with my youngest son (then 10), supposedly on their own but a “work colleague” was there and they just happened to walk hand in hand along the beach ….seemed oblivious that a 10 year old might notice that.
    – same colleague now live in girlfriend – funny that. But they only met a month after that holiday. How weird.

  • Oh yes, found a pile of letters to his ex girlfriend (pre me), and nestled amongst them, a letter from yet another girlfriend. So he cheated on her, whilst engaged. She dumped him because she found ANOTHER woman he cheated on her with. I knew nothing about any of this, but we recently met, had coffee and compared notes.

    Yet the current one, thinks she has found a jewel. She blew her family of 4 children (by 2 husbands) up for him……I think that is KARMA.

    • I’ve learned that Karma is a wheel, it is repetition. It’s a pattern.
      You presented here 2 patterns: a serial cheater and a woman who clings to men and seals the deal with offsprings.
      Do you start to see the dynamic in there? A “shiny knight” and a needy woman, one that puts her needs above her children. 2 faces of the same coin: narcissism.
      Unless they become aware of their actions, they are doomed to repeat the same thing. That is their karma, their luggage. It’s in their DNA, they have it from their ancestors and they will pass it to their children.

  • I received ‘trickle truth.’ My instincts could tell something more was happening, but fuckface would only admit to what he thought I already know. I had to squeeze it out of him over the course of a week. Honestly, it was such a mind fuck. It was HIS WAY to CONTROL ME. And I know recognise it for what it is – domestic abuse.

    I hate all the made-up words cheaters and their industry have for what is basically LYING.

    We are grown ups. We don’t tell ‘trickle truths.’ Even the name of it sounds childish! Like ‘white lies’ – which are still lies. We lie because we have agendas.

    I too got the “WE’RE JUST FRIENDS” and “I CAN’T LIVE WITHOUT YOU.” BS.

    They are disgusting human beings.

  • It makes perfect sense. You trust the other completely. Isn’t what a relationship is based on: trust?
    They exploit that. They don’t divulge anything unless you come up with proof. Then they just spin a lie about that truth. They know you will believe them – it’s TRUST.

    For me one lie is enough. That’s where my trust stops: at 1 lie. I don’t trust liars.
    They don’t get anything from me, so usually we part ways.

    With my cheater, I trusted him completely. Once I had irrefutable proof, I knew. I didn’t tell him what I knew.
    And so he told me things such as: “it’s not what you think”.
    At that point, it wasn’t about what I thought: it was about my son. Protecting him at any cost…

  • >