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Dear Chump Lady, She wants me to fight for her?

Dear Chump Lady,

I found out last week that my wife has started an affair right under my nose: she comes home one evening saying she is really sorry but did something strange with a work colleague. Of course she says she is all lost and apologetic and would never do anything else, but then two days later comes home and straight away tells me she’s sorry but she started having sex with him in her office and then stopped it. They were just friends and then it happened out of the blue apparently, because she was completely powerless to stop…

Now she is claiming she is lost, but still loves me, needs time to think, but of course won’t stay away from him, and that I will understand someday that it’s actually a good thing for our relationship that she did this, blah, blah, blah.

Of course I have been feeling completely lost and torn apart for the past week. We have been together for 15 years, have two young children and after some tough years learning that one of our sons has an incurable genetic disorder have actually been in what seemed to me like a really healthy marriage where we could talk and get through anything together. I was very happy and even though she is sometimes selfish, I have never seen it at this level before.

But enough context.

Now for my winning contribution to Stupid Shit Cheaters Say.

In the last couple of days she keeps making jokes about it all, and one of her favourite ones that keeps coming up is that she would really like is to see a fight between myself and the other guy like Hugh Grant and the other guy fighting in the fountain in Bridget Jones…

Just when you thought it couldn’t get worse…

George

Dear George,

Oh yeah, the Why Don’t You Fight For Me? cheater wet dream. Where all the Schoompie/Chump rivals are united in a choreographed pick me dance to the death. She’s MINE! POW! No, she’s MINE!

And the cheater sits on the sidelines giggling with false modesty, Oh my! All this fuss for lil’ ol’ me? Enjoying the spectacle. Happy as a cat in cream.

Of course, there’s no true victor. The cheater’s enjoyment is the fight itself. How bad do you want to give her kibbles? So bad that you’ll drown yourself? Ooh, or someone else?

Let’s take apart the Why Don’t You Fight For Me mendacity some more, shall we?

1.) The cheater actually thinks you should REWARD her for her betrayal, and fight hard for the dubious honor of her ambivalence.

2.) Not “fighting for her” is a pretext for more cheating and blameshifting. Well, she would’ve been faithful, but you didn’t step up and demonstrate how much she meant to you. What with your failure to appear as a gladiator in the Hunger Games.

3.) Notice how in your wife’s fantasy, she’s completely passive. Does she fight for anyone? Does she invest? Does she demonstrate value? No. People just fight for the wonderfulness that is her. Yes, her splendidness is THAT POWERFUL.

George, you have absolutely nothing to work with here. She’s not sorry — she makes “jokes” about destroying you. Her contribution to your healing is to share her offensive Pick Me Dance fantasies. Why are you still there?

Now she is claiming she is lost, but still loves me, needs time to think, but of course won’t stay away from him, and that I will understand someday that it’s actually a good thing for our relationship that she did this,

Uh huh. Cake is a good thing for her uninterrupted kibble supply.

Tell her to go have a nice long think… with her head stuck under that fountain.

Run away, George!

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Yeah, run away FAST, George! My X pastor set-up the Pick Me dance and told me (us) to try harder to please my lying, cheating husband. It didn’t matter that I was already dancing hard for over 20 years and I had to grasp at straws, trying to figure out things to write down to show the pastor what I was going to try harder to win my husbands love — seriously, I wrote down “Learn how to cook more fish meals” as I was at a lost as to what more to do for this man!!! George, there is nothing to work with here. For a woman to say to you that she would love to see you and the OM fight for her — she does not love you at all! Sorry. But someone who loves you doesn’t act like this or say this to someone they love. 🙁

    • I recognize that list!! Snort. My list included: Make him lose weight. Because apparently it was my fault that he got fat.

      Nothing to do with him driving through fast food restaurants daily, I’m sure.

      • I got “Im fat because you wont go on active weekend vacations with me”…where we act lie childless nymphs pictured in a Mens Health magazine. Yea, and I could spend their lunch money on a Tag Heuer watch for you Mr Wonderfulcheater who is desired by his coworkers.

        He was fat because he ate too much, but somehow I was responsible for what he ate…that, and everything else.

      • One of my most supportive friends has a narc husband whom I identified as such long before my own.

        Years ago his dr. told him he had high cholesterol and he told my friend she was trying to kill him by feeding him a high cholesterol diet. (He wasn’t joking.) She told me, if she was trying to kill him, she would certainly come up with a more efficient way than years of feeding him fatty steaks.

        We laughed but the preposterousness of this suggestion is just a glimpse of how far they will go not to take blame.

        Now, I see her whole marriage as a pick me dance while I don’t know if there is infidelity but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised.

        • What is it about food / meals / cooking with these cheater-freaks?!?!?

          My flaw was just the opposite: I was trying to feed him a much more healthy diet, bringing home only healthy items, using more organic & ‘clean’ ingredients…… And this was at cheaterpant’s request—–He wanted to stay healthy. (Was already a good weight & in decent health)

          But then he told the church counselors that I was trying to control him through diet! UH?! How’s that again?! By complying with his request to serve healthy meals, (which I always tried to do anyway) I drove him into the arms of his (young enough to be his child) married niece.

          Yeppers….That’s my “super-power”!

          Left the cheater / Re-claimed my life! Love you, ChumpNation, as we all ForgeOn!

          • The food thing is a key narc element. I too controlled him through healthy eating habits. So much so that for a real FUCK YOU, he had a disgusting deviant sexual affair with the COOK on his boat. If that isn’t a not so subliminal message to me, I don’t know what IS. She told him I was controlling and he needed to take back his power. Which he did! By eating crap food and drinking too much (not my control anymore) his glucose numbers went WAY HIGH! So who’s to blame for being a full blown diabetic now? The sluntcookwhore? And who’s to blame for his ridiculously LOW testosterone and prostate cancer markers? Not ME, that’s for sure, as I have zero control or power over him. Which, if he wasn’t such a fucking idiot, would have interpreted it all as CARING, not controlling. Oh well, NOT MY PROBLEM. I see MEH is a little closer every single day.

            • SS

              You lost the caretaker role. Clapping loudly. I was belittled for buying organic food and I have celiac which limits my food choices.

              He went to the gym daily (hunting ground) and eats fried food. Guess who had prostate cancer, severe heating loss, multiple surgeries on his shoulders and knees? Not to mention constant back pain and pisses the bed. Take that cunt Nanthony. It’s all yours.

              He takes so many pills and still eats shitty. I call it the bundle of love she inherited. Yup, it’s a package deal.

              I take allergy medication. Sorry if I sneezed.

              • Nanthony! I love that one Doingme!

                How did you come up with that one?

                Does she look like a woman who used to be a man and still has his Adam’s apple?

          • I am a vegetarian but I still cooked meat for the rest of the family 3-4 times a week. He still complained because we didn’t have meat with dinner every night. So being a good chump I started making sure he got meat with every meal. Of course he didn’t notice or thank me for that. Instead he cheated because I am a vegetarian and can’t enjoy a steak restaurant or try a bit of his dinner in any other restaurant. I also don’t like alcohol so another strike against me because he has to buy wine by the glass. Schmoopie is superior because they can eat meat and get stinking drunk together. If these are the things that are deal breakers for him than I guess he’s just too picky for me. I was a non drinking vegetarian when we met but I guess he thought he could change me and get me to give up those bad habits.

          • Hahaha – yes! The food thing. Sheesh. I was at fault for my STBX not being able to eat out enough. Here’s his logic:

            – Families cost money
            – With his full-time job and my part-time (due to motherhood), we barely made enough to cover expenses for family
            – Not enough left over money to eat fast food
            – Thus, having a family is the “thing” standing in the way of eating out more often
            – And, having a family is the wife’s fault for getting impregnated (by mutual decision) and giving birth.

            The truth? He was skimming money from his paychecks to EAT OUT during his lunch breaks (but he couldn’t tell me about those meals since he was stealing from the family to do it). He also bought other things with this stolen money, but that’s another topic. 😉

            So, we had no left over money because he was stealing it from the family to do the thing he was angry at me for NOT being able to do. Since he couldn’t tell me he was eating out, in his twisted mind it wasn’t really happening. Thus, he thought it was appropriate to blame me for not being able to do what he was actually doing.

            Hahaha … I said “here’s his logic.” What I should have said was: “Here’s the completely irrational way my STBX used food as a way to make me the bad guy — giving him yet another irrational excuse to cheat – repeatedly – for decades.”

            I’m SOOOOO happy I’m out of the insanity.

          • I too got this same narrative. He was trying to lose weight, but he kept eating fast food and gaining instead. I suggested he quit eating so much fast food and I would cook more. I kept my end of the bargain, and he still kept eating out. I basically told him, if he was going to continue eating fast food, I was going to cook less…enough for just me and the kids so it wouldn’t go to waste. I actually didn’t cook less, bit used his portions he didn’t eat for my lunches. When he cheated, he tried to spout the narrative that I was so controlling that he wasn’t “allowed” to eat fast food. I forced him to eat healthy. I didn’t love him enough to “let” him enjoy food. SMDH. All along he controlled what he put in his gut. I only afforded him options since he expressed a desire to get healthier and lose weight.
            This shit really hits home for another reason as well. When he and I started dating, he was in the last stages of his divorce being finalized. His ex-wife had cheated on him and left him for her married affair partner. Right after the divorce, she called him buzzed and sobbing. She wailed at the top of her lungs that he didn’t love her enough, he was supposed to fight for her. Both of us were lucid enough to process just how ridiculous that was. He even told her that when you get married, you shouldn’t have to fight for your own wife. A decade later and he repeated the same shit back at me. Talk about deja Vu.
            Run, George. Run and never look back.

      • Hahaha oh yes I remember that one. Meanwhile made him lunches with love notes daily. Used weight watcher for him. He brought home lunch and ate out. What jerks

        • I was blamed for cooking fatty mutton (homekill) and cooking fatty foods by the Traitor who would get a huge plate of food, then go for seconds, then half and hour after dinner make himself a couple of toasted cheese sandwiches. My fault he had cholesterol. This is the same Traitor who stole his children’s Christmas chocolates from under the Christmas tree (and rewrapped the empty packets so no one would notice until Christmas morning). My fault he was fat. So during the pick me dance I started buying even more treats because he was unhappy because I was controlling about food (I avoided buying sweets so his weight wouldn’t balloon). He started stuffing his face even more on cookies washed down with a litre of cider a night. Got heartburn and said I was trying to poison him.
          When he left me he put on another 20kg with the Whore.
          They are worse than little children, they take no responsibility for what they stuff down their own throats.
          Not surprising they also take no responsibility for their cheating.
          Nothing they do is their own fault.
          I guess if you don’t really have a personality but you’re just aping (mirroring) your targets, you can be responsible for anything. Makes sense.

          • wow, this is good wisdom, kiwichump … I got the first part (in fact my saying “nothing that ever happens to you is ever your fault” was quoted as one of my cruelties to the OW). Later, he made a left-hand turn into oncoming traffic and when he died, she told everyone they were rear-ended. Fine. But the hollow-man interpretation – they are just pretending to be normal by mirroring your values, so it is all your fault, because they were never really there…?? Interesting take, I’m pasting your words out. Nice.

    • Martha, HOW DARE YOU not cook enough fish!!!

      When you finally get enough space to step back and see things from a broader perspective, it’s almost laughable.

      How dare I not be a cross country skier?!
      How dare I not wear my hair in braids?!
      How dare I not be willing to try anal?!
      How dare I not speak fluent German?!

      Those are the reasons he was forced to cheat. How dare I not understand?!

      • Wait. You don’t speak fluent German? I’m sorry but he was totally DRIVEN to cheat. Driven. By you. That is hilarious and revolting and… just weird. What a total catch. What would he not do for you, other than try and prevent slipping and falling into random vaginas?

      • Do I sense a FRIDAY CHALLENGE?!?!?

        How dare I not get up at 5:00am to watch Game of Thrones with him?
        How dare I put my newborn before Mr. Sparkles?
        How dare I not ignore the missing $7000/year of income?
        How dare I want to hang with him AND friends on a Friday night for some pizza, beer, and swimming in the summer time?
        How dare I not continue to have sex with him after discovering his BiMWM self-proclamation?

        • Oh, let me try!

          When I said I had no idea he felt the way he did and why didn’t he ever tell me how unhappy he was and what he was unhappy about…. he said he shouldn’t HAVE to and that if I REALLY loved him, I would have just known.

          How Dare you not be able to read my mind!!

          How dare you make Deans List when I failed Algebra! (3 times)

          How dare you like the cats more than you like the dog. (No lie. This argument was my Aha moment)

          How dare you call ALPO a whore, bitch, cunt, moron, asshole, Twatwaffle, and The Magic Golden Pussy!

          How DARE you tell our kids I’m a racist. (He told me his uncle was a Grand Dragon in the KKK….after we got married)

          How DARE you tell the kids I broke your heart!

          How DARE you remind me I lied to her on her birthday when I said I wasn’t leaving you!

          How DARE you flip me off! I have a recording of you doing it! You’ll be SORRY!

          Blah blah blah…

            • Yes. Specifically canned dog food. Mr. Twatwaffles loves cheap, canned meat. Someone here at CN made a comparison “You’re cheese, she’s cheese product.” So I was inspired to take it a step further and think that Mr. Twatwaffles threw away prime rib for Alpo.

          • I had lots of those too, back in the pick-me-dance days.

            – I didn’t make him feel needed enough
            – I focused on the kids too much
            Blah, blah, blah.

            (If it was so bad, why not leave, ya know, ethically?)

            And then during our (thankfully brief) wreckonciliaton I got the kicker:

            “Maybe if I can teach you to kiss like the OW”

            OMG. Ewww.

      • Ha ha ha! Let me try, just because FUN:

        How dare I be a lousy lay, yet when questioned how one can improve cheater simply says “We’ve barely touched the tip of the iceberg,” HOW DARE you not know what the means? How dare you even question that?
        How dare you not try to read my mind?
        How dare you compare yourself to my MOW? She is extraordinary. Don’t even talk to me about her anymore because there are only so many times I’m willing to have these conversations.
        How dare you think of purchasing something for yourself ever!!!? Banish your needs immediately!
        How dare you call me unemployed? I am “underemployed.” Thank. You. Very. Much.
        How dare you tell me that I’m horrible to your family and friends? I must be honest about my feelings all the time and they make me uncomfortable because they see me for what I am.
        How dare you reject me? How dare you think of divorcing me? I am crying!!!! Do you see me crying!??? I am in such pain. How dare you!!!!

        Moving targets. They want nothing, they want everything. Cheaters. Who needs em?

        • How dare you call me unemployed? I am “underemployed.”

          omg MarriageDetective, this made me howl. I can hear it coming out of his mouth. His underemployed mouth. Poor mouth.

        • How dare you buy me a surprise gift of a new lawnmower when I complained in MC during wreckonciliation that I wanted the “pristine neatness of a mowed lawn”? True story.

      • And for me…how DARE you not become POLYAMORY so I can have all the girls (and boys) in the whole world to play with!

        • sounds like mine..He had multiple lovers from work, craigslist, gay dating apps, married men, trannies but I was the whore… how dare I not stay at camp chlamydia with him.

      • I didn’t wear pink, my hair was too curly and needed more structure, I lost weight for myself not him, he didn’t like the cloths I wore even though I was complimented on them and I insisted on wearing them anyway. He wanted me to be sultry but could not define it. He said; We were too much alike, we were too different. Why did I change him, why did I let him change me? We can’t be perfectly happy so we can’t be together. What makes you think we were ever happy. I loved you passionately, I never really loved you. I don’t know what love is. I don’t know why this bothers you……….

        I just want to punch him in the head once. That’s all I ask 🙂

        • Ah, yes. I heard many of these as well. I didn’t do this right, but then when I would fix it and try to “do better” that was wrong too. Again, this moving target stuff is for the birds – tho when you’re in the thick of it, Damn it’s insanity!!! I was working so hard to please him, I completely forgot that I, myself, existed. I bought into the centrality. Sadly so much so that I feel like my life passed by without my even knowing it. Feels like I’ve woken up from a really really bad dream. What a puppet I was!! AAACK!

        • I know! How come they can do all kinds of horrible things to you and you don’t even get to do a little Assault & Battery??? If you do it, get an all-female jury with all-Chumps and you’ll be given a Not Guilty verdict and a big golden star!!

        • Knowing I’m not alone is one of the most comforting things about this place. Yay for CL and CN!

          I felt schizophrenic with the polar opposite messages I was getting. It was always a no-win situation with STBX — and yet I was kept trying to figure out a win-win.

          Nope. Not possible with someone like this. It was so empowering to finally accept that.I stopped swinging at the windmills!

      • Refreshing, if sad, to hear Sad Sausages give ridiculous complaints for their cheating.

        Complaints given to me were:

        1) I had a “horrible” sense of decor
        2) I didn’t not keep my car clean enough
        3) I didn’t not clean the backyard enough

        The sad part is I internalized it all and really wracked my brain on how I drove him to cheat. Those complaints seriously fucked me up if you can believe it.

        I see the stupidity now but couldn’t then. I even went so far to ask my brother one day when he got into my car to evaluate its uncleanliness and what number was it on a scale of 1-10. It was during a “dirty” point. He said 2/10. 🤣🤣. I started sobering up and realizing my cheater didn’t have valid complaints about me. Frustrations maybe but no valid complaints.

    • Oh yeah, I had the list too. I was trying to come up with ways to make him feel appreciated at the same time as he was tearing me down on a daily basis.

      My ex wanted me to “fight” for him too. He complained when I got a lawyer and responded to his filing for divorce because I didn’t want to fight for our marriage. And like chump lady said, he contributed nothing, no effort, no investment. He once even listed all the things I would have to do for him to come back. It was so ridiculous, if I had been feeling cheekier I would have sent a ridiculous list of my own. They really do believe they are hot shit and cannot be replaced. They are so deeply deluded that it is very difficult for a normal person to understand the depth of their entitlement and selfishness. Whatever you think, it is more.

      • It pains me to even think about what I had to do to keep a malignant narcissist. There were requirements I had to fulfill. He had me convinced that there was something wrong with me and when I became stronger he undermined every attempt to make my life better. He used it as an opportunity to say see, Doingme is the one with issues.

        True to his nature he’s doing this to Nanthony. Complaining about her, giving ultimatums, moving her from her comfort zone, controlling her money and ignoring her needs. She never knew what she was signing up for. He will destroy her.

        • THIS! I was completely convinced I was a terrible person and wife. If I had an issue with someone at work, I reeived no support from him, just a “You know how you can be.”

          I went to a MC years ago by myself and tried approaching situations differently, only to get the same responses from him. That should have been my clue to get outta there.

          I didn’t keep the house clean enough, but everytime I organized he would either reorganize so I couldn’t find anything or just trash my organization.

          I thought I was a complete failure. When he left he had the audacity to tell me that I ruined his self-esteem. I was constantly criticizing him and he could not defend himself. I went to counseling by myself again to pull myself out of the hole he left me in, but I am sure he tells everyone I went to counseling because I am a terrible person who abused him. Since he has left, I realized I am not an angry person and that it was HE who was constantly criticizing me not the other way around.

          • Yes, there is a lot of projection that goes on in these cheater/chump relationships. I feel that everything, EVERYTHING that X complained that I did, he did. I look at it now and with every other person in my life, I do not have the same problems. It was him. Dumped him and my life is now all of a sudden easier. I’m even living with my parents right now, for crying out loud! Nothing is the same. He is the one who had ALL the problems he thought I had. Not me.

            Your first paragraph about not being able to talk about work at home seriously resonated with me. My X WOULD NOT even allow me to say anything about work. NOTHING. I was forbidden to discuss work at home. He would just walk away, go into another room and shut the door. But if I asked him to not talk about this, or to not say that word so damn much, WELL – HOW DARE you be unreasonable?????!!!!! Who do you think you are!!!!

      • Yeah, I got The List, too. He even broke it down to precisely how many days a week I had to agree to hang out with certain friends of his from work. He even complained that I spent x% more time at a party talking to this person over that person, and that I needed to rectify such things.

        I remember furiously taking notes as he outlined, in minute detail, precisely the things I needed to do to make him want to stay with me. And like an idiot chump, I tried to comply. Ugh, when I look back on those dancing days … *cringe*.

        • Well that must have made it hard to enjoy the next party when you had to be constantly checking the time and looking for ways to extract yourself from acquaintance x to go talk to acquaintance y so you could save your marriage. Talk about a control freak.

        • The list…I remember the ever changing things about me that I needed to change. And the best one was that if I did the things he asked that he would treat me better and stupid me, I tried to do everything. I was never good enough. But he never needed to change anything as I was the problem. And when he would admit that he needed to change or apologize, I learned that I could count the days and then he would come back and make the whole thing my fault and the verbal beat down until I apologized and explained what I would do differently so that I wouldn’t make the same error again causing whatever argument had ensued.

          The most memorable was when I was out in the garage talking to Haggar the Whoreable and he spent 3 hours telling me everything that was wrong with me and all the grudges that he was holding against me. However, I was expected to forgive and forget anything that he did, but he now was holding grudges that were years old that he had never told me about. Put this through the translator and it was that he had told Ankles stories and she, I have no doubt, said that she would “Never” would have done whatever my crime was. I became the enemy.

          And, never anything for me. Always stuff and adventures for him, but wouldn’t go and do anything with me. Wouldn’t take me places as he claimed that the one time he did I embarrassed him with answering a question honestly and that I couldn’t be trusted in public (no, he wanted to have his outside life without me). I made my needs so small and even that wasn’t enough. He would complain about my clothes and when I would get rid of more (I had 1 drawer in my dresser and 2 feet of 1 rack in the closet), he would continue to complain. He had the rest of the whole walk in closet and a full dresser.

          I should have known that there had been a shift when on my last birthday we were together he bought some nice gifts for me. None of which were my style of type, more likely were Ankles and he was most likely with her when he was shopping. Oh, and they were on my credit card. Yep. What a wonderful guy.

          And I danced and danced and danced. There was nothing except dying that would have satisfied him. Sickening.

    • I snorted like crazy over this (first time poster). We weren’t married, but by the end I knew my ex was chasing anything with a pulse but she wanted me to fight for her, AND she blamed me for getting fat… as if I stuffed every bite down her throat and then made her sit on her butt playing video games forever. Honestly, I don’t care if people are fat or skinny and think they’re all gorgeous if they have good hearts, but I take a nasty glee in knowing she ballooned up even bigger after she left me.

      She’s long gone and if I remember correctly, whored her way across to the midwest, straightened up for a while and actually worked, and then the last I heard was sponging off her current g/f’s disability income somewhere down south.

      Weirdo.

    • Well, he submitted this as a comment to Stupid Shit Cheaters Say — but we’ve got hundreds of comments there, so I ran this as a letter instead. Good example of the Pick Me Dance assumption.

      All to say, I think George knows this is ridiculous.

      • And you know something? This whole scenario proves that cheaterellas and cheater-dudes have fundamentally misunderstood why these movie fights occur- typically isn’t it that ” Bridget” has already gotten rid of ” Daniel” and “Mark” is fighting to defend her honor?

        I’m just saying, our damsel has typically already made her choice.

  • I got the same thing. “Why won’t you fight for me? She is fighting for me.” from my exhole. Her “fighting” for him was her contacting him after he had told her to stop contacting him during our wreckonciliation. He saw that as his trait of undeniable desirability to her. When actually, it was her lack of respect for doing what he asked her do, and going ahead with doing whatever SHE wanted to do.

    Ugh. These people are so screwed up.

    • That’s why my ex wouldn’t tell the OW to stop contacting him. He didn’t want to make her mad while she was still fighting for him. She did make him mad for a little while when “she went back to her husband.” Of course she did that after my ex told her that they “had to break up” because he was going to try and work out our marriage. I guess she should have sat around pining for him.

      Ultimately I lost the pick me dance because “she was willing to chase my ex even though she was married.” That “showed him what true love was!” Of course I really blew it when I didn’t stand up in court and object to our divorce, which is definitely what I would do since I was the one who initiated it! Insert eye roll here. Yeah, he said that to me too the day we got divorced. What a maroon!

      • SLUNT’s best manipulation was to tell STBX that she was praying for me and praying that we would rekindle our love. I almost lost my shit when I heard that load of manure. She came off so covertly manipulative, I laughed at him. He thought she was so SELFLESS to want to sacrifice their soulmate twinsouls love if our 26 year marriage could be “saved”. I told him she was a fake pious hypocrite and should spend more time reading the 10 commandments and stay away from unavailable men and he was a total idiot if he believed her shit. They are disgusting.

        • BS

          He cheated because he’s an asshole. Now he’s building s foundation with a classless whore. What he says? The words of a lying cheat have no value.

          You have value. Take care of your needs.

        • Schmoopie contacted STBX a week after he “broke up” with her to reconcile with me and made him come see her in person so she could “break up” with him and tell him to reconcile with me.

          2-3 weeks later she sent him a movie invite and dropped by to see him at work and reconciliation went out the window. But she isn’t manipulative and is an innocent victim of his manipulation. Pfft.

          Oh, and apparently she thinks highly of me even though she hates any minute he spends in my presence and doesn’t want me to be the beneficiary on his life insurance policy even though we have three minor children.

        • BeowulfSabrina, you had one of those OW’s too! My Ex’s OW would send her prayers deliberately on my birthday, anniversary, etc. She was a pro at stirring the pot! She also had a quote at the end of her e-mails by Thomas Jefferson which made no sense at all to me. Her Mother is some sort of ordained minister who has Bible studies out of her living room weekly! So religious! YUCK! Under the Stupid Things Cheaters Say, mine told me that he felt I had put him on a pedestal and he couldn’t live up to my standards of perfection! WOW! He felt he had to work at being “perfect” for me, but Schmoopie loved him just the way he was! Honestly, you talk about narcissistic! I gave Mr. Perfect the boot!

        • Agh — this is not salt in a wound … it’s acid.

          My STBX told me how “nice” his last married AP (that I know of) asked about how our daughter was healing. This daughter almost died in a car wreck, had been on life support, and then had months of rehabilitation that I took her to (while caring for our 10-month-old) … all while STBX and this sewer scum where screwing around.

          But she was so “nice” that she asked about the health of our child?!?!?!?!

          While I’m not normally violent, this little bit of info nearly sent me off the deep end.

    • Embarrassing admission, but I wish stbx had wanted me to fight for him. He shows nothing but anger toward me. He is all rage and i think it increased dramatically when I got a lawyer. I am not sure who he hates more, me or the lawyer.

      Everyone else, he just expects to be happy for him with his two luv and the fact that he is rid of crazy, evil, abusive bitch feeling it.

      • He mostly likely has a lot of guilt and so he turns that into anger towards you so he can justify his actions. Poor sausage his probably scared out of his wits, what if he made a mistake! Don’t give him a second thought you’re well rid of him. Hugs!

      • Lhomick – DO NOT BE EMBARRASSED! You should feel mighty! Remember, these fuckwits work on three emotional channels… Pity, Rage, Charm. You’re getting the rage because you no longer accept his abuse.

        I understand that it is hard to feel this anger/rage directed at you. For me, it hurt so much in the beginning because I was like “why the fuck are YOU made at ME… you’re the one that lied and cheated.” Thank heavens I found CL and CN and realized the anger/rage was just more manipulation.

        I went as no contact as possible (we share children) and I don’t listen to the flying monkeys anymore so I don’t care what his narrative is. I know the truth (and I have the screenshots to prove it).

        Now, I see the anger/rage/silent treatment as a compliment. He couldn’t break me. You’ll get to that point too on your road to Meh.

        • “Thank heavens I found CL and CN and realized the anger/rage was just more manipulation.”

          He has nothing left but anger towards me now that I have filed…..I have to keep reminding myself not to take it personally,,,,that it is all part of his disorder.

          • You really do, Sitting Chump. DO NOT RESPOND. It will sometimes make their anger escalate, but like a fire without oxygen, sooner or later it burns out.

            Just like they get bored in our marriages… they soon lose interest here too (at least for me)… took about 2 years.

      • Lh

        Don’t be embarsssed. That hatred is pure entitlement. You filed, hooray.

        Every single time we put others needs before our own in a relationship we are picking them over ourselves. Assholes like yours are enraged at the loss of centrality and will attempt to maintain it through abuse.

        Go no contact. Speak only through your lawyer. If he threatens harm, report him. You did a good thing filing. He’s no longer the boss of you. Stand your ground on the settlement. Don’t give him your power.

        • He hates my attny with a rage I have never witnessed before. It’s like he really doesn’t get to play the victim to the circumstances that HE created! My attny is loving it, though, he’s seen many narcissists and said they can’t stand to lose control and now I have someone protecting me and he is freaking out. Sends me emails about how I need to fire him and how he’s going to take him before the Bar for sanctions and then when that doesn’t work, he thinks we are “romantically” linked. I forward emails to my attny, what fun to watch him self destruct!

          • Yeah… after every session with my attorney (he tried to go pro se for a bit)… he’d ask me “Can’t we just TALK and work this out together.” HMMM… seems to me the time for conversation was before the blowjobs from trannies and falling into the vaginas of Craigslist and Adult Friend Finder peeps.

            My attorney wasn’t the “best”, but I had enough documentation and notarized things that he didn’t stand a chance. Yet he still believed he could charm me out of my future. Asshole.

          • Yes, my attorney thinks it is fabulous as the madder cheater gets, the more mistakes he makes. It is good in that respect because the attorney is in his head and not vice versa.

            The challenge is keeping cheater out of my head.

      • He did want you to fight for him, he just wanted you to do it in spite of how horribly he treated you. When you didn’t (or didn’t do it in the way he fanaticized) his rage intensified. Well, that and the lawyer who thinks it’s his job to stir up trouble so he can make more money.

  • Oh George… I wish I could tell you that your Cheater is original, but she’s not. She’s a plain, old, ordinary, lazy, unimaginative Cheater.

    Two instances from my discard pop into my mind as I read this:

    1. Through tears, I said to Mr. Sparkles “how would you feel if I did this to you?” His reply, “I don’t know how I would feel. Why don’t you do it and see if it makes me feel anything?”

    2. After polishing off two bottles of wine and watching a movie when we were supposed to be discussing the divorce settlement (I was still pick me dancing and it was our anniversary)… he leaned across the couch, took my hands in his and said, “Wouldn’t it be romantic if we fell in love again AFTER the divorce?” My skin crawled and I filed 60 days later.

    Do you see? In the words of Shakespeare/cheaterspeak…. “All the world is a stage. I’m the star who gets top billing. And you minions are mere actors in MY STORY.”

    These people are not authentic. They do not care about you/us. They do not have the depth of character to honor marriage vows. No. They’d rather fuck on top of the copy machine or in our marital beds or in hotel rooms paid for by our 401ks.

    Protect yourself – document everything that is going on right now. Even if just your notes of these conversations. Get her to tell you the name of fuckmate at work, you’ll want to deposition him during the divorce. Protect your children.

    OH… and the day you serve her with divorce papers, do it next to a fountain.

    C’mon George… I want to see you in the starring role as a Mighty Chump.

    • “Wouldn’t it be romantic if we fell in love again AFTER the divorce?”

      Wow ICSTMC, that is one of the most I have no words lines I have seen yet on cl. I would love to see the UTB for that!

      So sorry. Hugs for enduring that.

      • I was going to comment on this too. I got that whole musing over getting back together after the divorce thing, and then it went to being friends, then it went to me downright hating him. I have to say, when he said it I chumpily bought into it at first (in that it gave me hopium), but that faded pretty quickly. X broke up our family secretly not very long after the marriage began and then decided on my behalf that it was acceptable to bring a child into the mix. Now he’s putting the blame on me in his passive-aggressive-outwardly-sorry-yet-inwardly-feeling-contempt-for-me way. Yeah, I’m not falling back in love with him, and we’re never going to be friends. Just waiting for karma to take his ass to hell (I know, I know…being overly hopeful there too).

      • Not original. I heard the same exact words, along with maybe he needs to be divorced to see if he still wants to be married. what kind of turd says crap like that?

        • I got ‘a lot of people stay married and just live together’. It finally dawned on me after I filed that he wanted to stay married long enough to get my social security…insane.

          • He stayed married to avoid paying income tax and to keep health benefits.

            He can only get half of the amount you recieve. AS soon as my granddaughter graduates I’m moving and he will lose his benefits. Total users.

        • I heard something similar to this.

          In my case, he speculated that maybe he wouldn’t like being separated and would want to get back together. I responded that, no, I would never take him back after being rejected the first time.

          It’s obnoxious how they like to keep their options open! As if we’re so desperate for their love that we’ll want them back after being treated like crap. They don’t get it that the thing we grieve for is the trust and unshaking love that is now irretrievably broken. Assholes, all of them.

    • I tell you these idiots think life is a fantasy. What kind of a women has a child with a rare incurable genetic disorder spends her free time fucking around risking her child’s emotional and financial security? Jokes about her affair, unbelievable! She doesn’t give a damn what happens to her family it’s all about her. They think life is going to last forever they value nothing. I have a friend whose husband dumped her just when her 16 year old son was starting chemo for his brain tumor. Her son survived and is now happily married. These people are just useless selfish bastards! How can they look in the mirror!

      • I would say this is a coping mechanism gone wrong, but then again that’s what they would say to justify their horrid actions. There are better ways to cope (turning to your loved ones for example, making yourself a pillar of strength for others) instead of doing the selfish thing and ripping yourself away from your family and hurting them in the process in some silly guise of getting “free” (basically freeing oneself from bad feelings and experiences, such as standing by a loved one who is ill — Lord knows we can’t have that, because it’s all about cheater and feeling good all the time!). I see a pattern in that a lot of them have issues dealing with sadness, anger, etc. They don’t/can’t feel it, and they can’t stand being around others who do. My X had this issue. His reaction while I was reacting to things that angered or saddened me was to shut down. I should thank his narc father, who let none of them express bad feelings or dissent openly. Thank goodness that’s no longer my problem, and I will be trying my hardest to maintain an environment of open expression for my daughter.

        • You’re right! It’s not about coping, it’s about making it all about ‘them’ they just can’t cope with the idea that at any point in time the sun isn’t revolving around their a$$hole. They don’t care if its a sick newborn or you need surgery, or one of your – or even his parents are dying. How dare the focus shift from him, even for a nanosecond.

          So they cause a crisis to bring the attention back to them, irrespective of the financial and emotional cost to everyone else..

    • ICanSeeTheMehComing: I was on the receiving end of a similar line; XH actually said, “If I figure out after our divorce is final that I’ve made a mistake, we can always get remarried”!

      Well, he’s getting remarried alright… just not to me! He and AP #14 are getting hitched next month. It’s twu wuv, don’tcha know? Two cheaters trying to justify their behavior! Good luck, because it’s simply NOT possible!

  • George, my cheating ex-wife had similar delusions of being fought over, which she worked really hard to make happen. After her cheating was discovered, she told one of her APs how mean I was being to her (I was actually busy writing her sobbing letters of apology and recommitment, Amazon chumping, and scheduling counseling appointments), inciting reaction from him. Then she ran to me to tell me what the AP was saying (“He says he wants to leave his family and marry me!”). Then reporting some version of my response back to AP. Very sick and abusive. It wasn’t long before I found out her cheating was continuing even while we were in MC and filed for divorce, but I think those 12 days were the best 12 days of her life (and the worst 12 days of mine).

    Take care of your health. Sending you good wishes for strength and peace.

    • Oooh, another one with the best days of their lives? Mine TOLD me that the days we spent with hysterical bonding were the most wonderful days of his life. I can’t understand how monstrous he has to be to feel that when I was dying, right in front of him.

        • And I have the impression that he felt it was something I should be proud of, and remember it with a warm heart: I gave him the most wonderful days of his life! All I can see is a beast.

        • Yeah. Right after DDay, my ex actually wrote a poem about my pain, then brought it to me to read and admire. Also said that right after I kicked him out, he felt more alive than ever before. Years later, when I saw him and Schmoopie in court, they didn’t look so happy anymore. In fact they were trying to bait me back into the triangle. No luck. Grey Rock.

          • You rock that grey rock. Nothing more satisfying than seeing cheaters miserable together and we a free and happy.

          • He wrote a poem about your pain. Yours. I’m speechless. Wow. What a great guy. I’m really tired this morning and feeling all sorts of ragey. I really want to punch your ex dead in his face for that one.

            • Here’s a poem about it:

              You wrote me a poem
              About my pain
              Now leave me alone
              Or I will attack your car with your own golf clubs.

              – Lola Granola, 2017

          • Awful. I’m sorry that happened. Strangely, the clueless spouses pain seems to be great creative fodder for these talentless hacks. The other woman in my case wrote a sweet song about the Karpman Drama Triangle and posted it online to thunderous applause. My ex husband clapped the loudest!

            • And here is the song:

              I’m glad I am a Schmoopie
              A side dish fuck
              A big ol’ jar of poopie
              In your last potluck

              Our twu wuv is endless
              Our hearts will never crack
              For right now I have to bend less
              While fucking bareback

              I know I am the only
              Other Woman in your life
              Your special spanking pony
              Who’s lovely to your wife

              A love that none can hinder
              Specially not that sorry cow –
              Hang on – why are you on Tinder?
              Guess we know who’s sorry now …

  • George, I pray you live in a fault state of someplace where you can use her behavior against her in the divorce.
    Let her think you are working on your list of ways to be better while you actually lawyer up and get rid of her.
    Sorry….but she’s awful.

  • If she wants to see how well you fight, I suggest you show her over custody issues.

    Best wishes to you and your two young children. Being their super hero will be a lot more rewarding than being her chump.

  • What a turd of a prize she is! Tell her to shove it! You can be can find a better reward in the bottom of your toilet bowl after a night at your favorite Mexican restaurant. Seriously, I’m stunned at her utter callousness and lack of remorse. But not really stunned because they are, after all, selfish and totally predictable. You’re a good man, you deserve someone better than that steaming pile of a woman.

  • Kunty Kibbler’s variation on this theme was: “I need you to reel me back in when I make mistakes.” Every time I caught her violating the marriage and called her out on her destructive behavior, she’d use this line.

    Now that my UBT skills are more finely tuned, I know what this really meant was: “I need you to get in the kitchen and whip up the biggest, sweetest, gooeyest mother-of-all-cakes you can, while I figure out how I can keep from getting caught next time.”

    Cowardice, laziness, self-adoration, blamelessness — it’s truly a bouillabaisse of toxicity.

    • Postscript — she even had the balls to commend me for pick me dance in a letter she sent to me 5 days after the divorce was finalized. Grab a barf bag:

      “Thank you for being brave enough to fight for me. And for being tired enough to let me go, when I told you I needed to go.”

      • Isn’t it amazing that even when it’s over they are the center of the universe? She needed to go alright, straight to hell. I got the “you would like her so much if you let yourself get to know her” and, during one particularly bizarre conversation, “wouldn’t it be great if the three of us could live together?” Ugh, no, I make it a point not to live with folks who cheat on their families and who are narcissistic assholes.

        • @Violet
          “wouldn’t it be great if the three of us could live together?” That is their ultimate fantasy. That “Big Love” scenario. *eye roll*

        • Wtf! Mine had said shit to me and I have no words to reply because in my head im saying ‘what fucking planet do you live on’!
          They are centre stage of their petty small deceitful lives!

      • I’m pretty sure Kunty Kibbler’s picture is in the dictionary under centrality. She is definitely one of the worst pseudo human beings ever.

  • Run, Forrest, run!!

    Yep. At one point during my time of torture I actually contacted my wife’s AP. Looking back, I think she was thrilled to the point of climax by that. But I was then accused of being “unsophisticated” and I found out later she used the episode to try to strengthen her relationship with AP. What a shit show that was!

    So grateful to have all that behind me and increasingly experiencing days of “meh.”

    Thank you CL & CN! You are mighty!

    • Yeah I was unenlightened and should mind my own business and keep out if things I dont understand when I contacted the whore and her husband, of course this made me really pissed. Condescending fucker.

      • I also contacted my EX’s co worker whore and was amazed when she told me that of course she is seeing him he is going to have big money with his new job. She than admitted that she did not find him sexy, he was great to look at but cold were her words. Of course I threw it in his face, which she denied and used it to create drama.

        They did not even make it until the divorce was final. He went thru 3 other women and now just got engaged this month and we have been divorced 2 years. I never knew who broke up with who. She did go on to marry the man she was living with during the affair. Class act.

        I never tried to talk to her again… (they live in our subdivision)

        • I left a VM for the AP during wreckconciliation asking her to back off. According to the exasshole she said I threatened her and was so scared she deleted the VM….yeah, no, she deleted it because she was lying about it. They deserve each other.

    • I contacted ALPO’S husband on Facebook and said, “Your wife and my now ex-husband were fucking around while we were still married, can we talk?” We did and he admitted he helped her move in with Mr. Twatwaffles. He was “Oh, she’s a bad wife, but a good mom. I’m not happy how it went down, but the heart wants what the heart wants…” blah blah blah. Could not figure out why Mr. Milquetoast was so blah about it all, and it really made me wonder if I was a fucking nut job for seeming to be the only one so incredibly angry out of the four of us.

      Until I finally realized Mr. Milquetoast must have also had a lil’ sumpin sumpin on HIS side. Then it made sense.

      That was confirmed when my kids told me that they spend the 4th of July watching fireworks from the yard of their dad’s girlfriend’s husband’s parent’s house and that they played games with Mr. Milquetoast’s whore girlfriend.

      And then Mr. Twatwaffles had the audacity to suggest that I let our girls live with him during the school year and register them in his school district.

      So they can have a front row seat to that seriously fucked up scenario of free love? Which Mr. Twatwaffles and ALPO are bringing their “bun in the oven” into?

      Oh, HELL NO!!!

      • A few minutes after he finally admitted his surreptitious affair after 3+ years, I got on my laptop and was typing like mad. He seemed to lick his lips and asked me if I was emailing ‘her’.
        My ‘friend’ who he was fucking.

        I was emailing Chump Nation and it surprised me he thought I’d have anything to say to the whore. Ha – not worth my time. CL, CN pointed me towards a divorce attorney the next day. Jokes on him – I never bothered with the pond-scum-woman.

        • I have NEVER contacted ALPO. Not a single time. I’ve never laid eyes on her, never talked to her….nope… I avoid the town where they live because I do not want to ever see her. I wish a pox upon her.

          I only found CN after a huge, huge vomitous texting tirade I had with him on July 4th, which got me a talking to from the sheriff.

  • George, you’ll never do enough. Even if she wrote a list, & you followed it to the letter, she would cheat. You asked for monogamy & she couldn’t do that, you asked for respect & she couldn’t do that, you asked for honest communication & she couldn’t do that, you asked for love & she couldn’t do that.

    How about you write a list of what you need from a healthy romantic relationship, look at it and realise your STBX can’t fulfill it, and set yourself free to find someone who can.

    • You’re never a good enough spouse for these narcissistic cheaters, and in the end it’s all a game that’s rigged with ever-changing goal posts. My cheater x wouldn’t even pretend to give up his married girlfriend and yet was shocked and enraged when I filed for divorce. One of the last things he told me before I moved was that he was hurt that I didn’t fight for him. WTF?

  • Crickey! I thought it was bad enough when yo Yo Knickers said to me that I’d like the AP, we’d actually get on with each other, He’s a good guy etc…

    But to tell you she’d like to see you fight over her..messed up.

    Get away from her, you deserve better.

    • Several times now I’ve been reading along through these CL threads and I get to moving along and I don’t realize I’m reading a MickeyBlueEyes post and then almost by surprise I hit that “Yo Yo Knickers” moniker you’ve given her and it just cracks me up. I mean actually laugh out loud. I don’t know why I love that one so much. My best guess is it’s both light and breezy and at the same time perfectly damning and ridiculing. It’s like you’re at Meh and she’s just this cartoonish skanky thing you have to refer to in making a point sometimes. It’s like you’re almost laughing at her and I can almost see her disgruntled resentment at having that name stuck on her. Mad that you don’t get how fabulous she envisions herself. Madder still that you have so easily and almost flippantly pegged her. And you don’t even seem to care that much that you have. She doesn’t even get the satisfaction of imagining you’re invested with anger at her. You’re just making an easy joke of her. And the joke sticks to her like fly paper. Like all humor, all of this hits me at once in reading the name (punchline). It’s a great one.

      • Exactly this TKO, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Still not totally at MEH yet with my settlement and getting the divorce finalised, but certainly at MEH when it comes to dealing with Yo Yo Knickers. 🙂

      • Yo Yo Knickers, Kunty Kibbler, Princess Yoga Pants are some of my favorites. Maybe it’s because I get such a visual of seriously high maintenance women. And partly because as a female, this is so far outside of my way of thinking to behave this way and be a wife and mother. I guess somebody’s got to be the MOW and our male chumps give us a glimpse of who they are. Perhaps this glimpse let’s me see they aren’t super special snowflakes, except in their own minds. They are selfish and entitled. Seeking kibbles no matter the costs or consequences.

      • I agree TKO, mickeyblueeyes, Tempest, Beth, many others, from reading regular posters comments they just lighten your heart, make you smile. You get to feel like you know all the characters. You hate the cheaters and cheer for, and actually LOVE the Chumps.
        All of you Chmps, each one of you, thank you for the light, the truth and the smiles.
        ❤️

  • Imagining a fight over her? Is your wife 13 years old? You shouldn’t have to fight another man to keep your wife. I believe your wedding vows covered your commitment. Run fast and far!

    • Mine has an old beef because once at an Easter lunch I didnt stick up for him to my Dad. I have no memory of this moment and think it was his fragile ego crying. Seriously man the fuck up!

  • And then of course there is the “I know best” bullshit of “someday you will realize that what I did was for the best”, “just not yet because you are not as wonderful and all knowing as I am”. I got that straight out of the playbook line too. She is just soooo deep.
    My advice is to do what I did-file and don’t even tell this jerk. Serve her at work. It’s worth the extra 75$ sheriff fees;)

    • That was EXACTLY what I did, and he was completely blindsided! So. Amazingly. Satisfying. Also, he’s the boss in a small, closed in office. I have visualized it about a million times. He was super-pissed! Was 2 years ago and it still makes me grin like a Cheshire cat! 😂

  • From old fairy-tales, to modern day romantic comedies, we have endless examples of what “love” is supposed to look like and feel like. Endless BAD examples. Our cultural perspective is competitive and unrealistic. We are supposed to have functioning brains that selectively choose and control our own behavior, and if we are going to live in and be part of the civilized world, we are supposed to follow some social rules and mores. You choose to do so or not. No justifications, no take backs, no staged “fights” to win the princess. Reality. Sometimes it sucks.

    • Portia, this is so true. I recently bought a light comical novel about the antics of a group of people living in an apartment block. I have bought several of this author’s works to read at bedtime and help me fall asleep. In this latest one, the protagonist who is a brow beaten fellow (by his overbearing wife) decides to have an affair. Well both his mother and a neighbour character think this is just wonderful as he’s finally getting out from under the thumb of the wife. In the past I probably wouldn’t have thought twice about this, afterall it’s just a story. (Of course this was before I knew about my cheater.)The wife is overbearing and really not nice but you know I thought This just reenforce see that if you aren’t happy just screw around. The guys in a bad marriage, a coward, can’t stand up for himself but he can go out and find someone to fuck around with and that’s ok with everyone even Mum! You are so are right these stereotypes are everywhere, the message is infidelity is justified if you’re not happy. There is a good series on BBC called Dr. Foster it’s about betrayal and revenge and how infidelity destroys people. It’s on Netflix and I recommend it to chumps. We have to change the narrative.

      • What I find the worst is that so many of these people take their spouses imperfections and twist them around to convince themselves that they are the poor spouse being abused by the overbearing spouse and so justified in what they are doing. As we know from CN, this is rarely an accurate picture of what is really going on in the marriage. Our spouses were not abused, we were.

        • This is exactly why it hurts like a mfr. He character assisinated me subtly for fucking years to everyone we knew behind my back which resulted in many conversations with people that left me feeling like i was out of the loop on something but could never put my finger on it. At least my intuition wasnt wrong. Lies will come out….

    • I told my X a couple of times when we were together that his idea of love seems like it’s not his own idea, but the idea of what loved is supposed to be based on movies or television. He’s mushy, I’m not. So I thought his idea of love not seeming genuine to me was because of personal differences. Another missed flag. Ugh.

      • Thats because it isnt their idea !! Right from the word go i said to my x “you dont have an original thought in your head!” Sort of jokingly since he gave me some line that i then discovered was a quote from a movie… chumpy me to find out 25 years down the track thats all he was full of recycled bullshit.

  • This cheater is a mixture of a small child and a young teenager mentally. She is, therefore, a child who is harming his children, so the same steps one would take to stop another child from harming one’s children apply.

    You know, limiting contact with the children as much as possible including doing as much as possible to ensure that any contact is supervised and redirecting the easily distracted mean child into alternate play scenarios while providing your children with safer scenarios, refraining from attempting to use adult reasoning with a person who clearly can’t understand it and setting clear and largely monosyllabic boundaries instead, offering two or three acceptable choices rather than asking open ended questions, etc. etc.

    In my mind, this cheater’s acceptable choices are to move out now or move out in two weeks, and the kids need stability so they stay here with chump. If cheater needs a stipend for a deposit on a place, that’s an acceptable request.

    Cheater can come here, alone, to visit the kids when chump is home, but the rest of the time cheater needs to play with her other friends. When the cheater cries that it’s unfair, chump says “Cheater, your cheating and lying behavior doesn’t fit the behavior rules of this house. If you want to be able to visit this house, you need to follow the rules of this house while you are here, period.”

    Easy for me to say, I know. I’m just fantasizing about what I want for this fellow chump.

  • Would love to see the look on HER face as you hand her divorce papers while telling her she is NOT worth fighting for! EVER!
    Now, work on getting her out of your house and custody of you kids. Steps to take now
    1. Secure financial assets and shut down credit cards, access to investments and/or retirement accounts
    2. Find a bulldog attorney. A female attorney would work best for you as well. Mine was kick ass and she pushed me to seek custody and limit Xs influence in my life.
    Good luck!

  • The “dubious honor of her ambivalence” is so perfectly put.

    I think my cheater was and remains amazed that neither I nor the kids jumped at the opportunity to win his maybe, if it suits him, if it isn’t terribly inconvenient for him, and if it makes him look really awesome to others brand of non-love.

    Gee whiz, buddy. Thanks, but no thanks. We will give that a skip. 👀

  • Oh poor thing… your refusal to chase hurts her “wittle feelwing”. I’ve come to the conclusion that having to explain empathy to any adult that has behaved in a destructive manner is a sign to run 🏃🏼.

    You can literally see this kind of behavior played out in a kindergarten class. Immature child wants to play with a toy that sally is playing with; child runs over and impulsively rips said toy from Sally’s hands and pushes her to the ground. When the teacher runs over to find out what’s going on, the child screams “she wouldn’t give me the toy I wanted! She hurt my feelings!”

    Yet when an adult behaves that way, we want to blame it on someone else not meeting their needs. I guess it’s because society assumes adults have grown out of that impulsive self-centered stage of life ! Nope, there are some people who will forever be stuck in an adult body with the mentality of a 5 year old.

  • Mine, at abandonment, but secretly carrying on the affair, solemnly told me one evening; “I’m going to go to mass. When I get back, I want to know what I’m going to get if I stay.”
    I’m quite sure he told his OW the same statement. He wanted us to compete. while he was looking like the pious guy. You can’t make this up.

  • Just to add that I am sorry for this clusterfuck especially with having a child who has an incurable genetic disorder. Having a child who has a disability or any kind of significant medical or developmental needs is a whole other layer of mess. My ex told me that our son’s disability was “so hard” for him and he was so sad when he would have to leave us whenever we were in the hospital to go to work…and so he cheated. (That is an abbreviated summary of his very sadz but really, WTF?)
    I realize this is oddly specific but I would love a thread about parenting a child with special needs and cheating spouses. Maybe I will start one.
    Hang in there George.

  • This is one many of us can relate to. I have said this before, but I felt like STBX detonated a bomb in our marriage, told me to clean up the mess and if I did a good enough job he might condescend to stay as a favor to me as long as he was allowed his side fucks whenever he felt like it. I did fight for my marriage but I tried to do it in a way that wouldn’t humiliate me and that wasn’t possible.

    Recently he told our daughter that I was partially responsible for the demise of our marriage because I didn’t fight hard enough for him. WTF! I did fight for our marriage. I was fighting for it before DDay and for several months after. I stopped fighting when I realized I was the only one fighting and I couldn’t save our marriage all by myself. What exactly was I supposed to be fighting for? When did he fight for me?

    I had never been one to fight for a guy before. I never felt it was worth it because if you have to fight for him, the fight never really ends and you will be fighting your whole life. One of the reasons I chose STBX in the first place was because I didn’t have to fight. Back then he wore his heart on his sleeve (or so I thought) and I loved him for it. I loved him back with my whole heart, but evidently he didn’t get it. Either his love was always an act or he changed over the years. By the time things blew up, I was fully vested in him and I did fight. I had never done that for any other man ever before. And yet, evidently I “didn’t fight hard enough”. Ugh!

    • “When did he fight for me?” EXACTLY. The fact that we’re supposed to be their rock while they run around being the polar opposite just shows how entitled they are. I’m a rock for myself and my daughter now, and a big ol’ grey rock for him.

  • George

    She’s taking pleasure in your pain. The woman you loved and had children with feels comfortable telling you the details of her affair supposedly from the onset. I’d say this is atypical as cheaters go to great lengths to keep affairs from the loyal spouse. She’s a special kind of twisted George. She finds humor in the likes of you and her AP dueling it out.

    That in my opinion this makes her dangerous as this fantasy has no doubt been shared with the AP. The cheaters narrative demonizes the loyal partner to keep the fuck buddy friend hooked.

    Yes, George I would fight for custody, the home, and the assets. Doccument and record conversationsand see an attorney ASAP. It’s time to protect yourself as once you file you will see rage. Take all threats to the police and document everything she says and does from now on.

    The one thing my passive agressive sociopath never once did was to stand up for me. In the end I stopped fighting.

    Save your energy for your children and your future. DO NOT leave your home. Suggest that she get an apartment while she’s fucking the gut in the office. File George.

  • While some others have mentioned this, I feel it bears repeating: in the Bridget Jones scene, they weren’t fighting over her. Mark beat up Daniel because he abandoned Bridget in a Thai jail on a bogus cocaine smuggling charge – and Mark felt that was a dick move that deserved a good smack. Even in the chick flicks, they’re not fighting over who gets the lying whore.

  • I always think people can’t get more selfish and narcissistic and then – BLAM. Speaking of “fighting for” – the SISTER of the OW in my relationship told me “If you cared, you would have fought for him.” Um – what now? I HAD NO IDEA YOUR WHORE SISTER EVEN EXISTED! And ya know what? Even if I knew – I’m not so sure a fight would have even been something I’d consider. I’m fucking AWESOME and if what he wanted was some alcoholic white trash low lying fruit with a GED – have at it. What am I fighting for anyway? He’s a middle aged man with a big beer belly (only to be matched by his massive ego), a big umbilical hernia and sagging balls. Please. Fight? Um…no.

    And George? You shouldn’t fight either. The level of selfishness here is astounding. You’re better than that. Don’t massage that massive ego. It’ll end up biting her in the ass.

    • It is hilarious, mine is 68 not exactly George Cluney material and the OW is a dumpy 75 year old granny, I mean really!

    • Frankly, IMHO, doesn’t matter if the cheater looks like and has the money & talent of Brad Pitt, and the OW the looks like, and has the money and talent of Angelina Jolie; cheaters are not worth fighting for. My cheater was good looking, successful, smart, fun and could attract beautiful women. Don’t care; not fighting for a sociopathic, empathy-lacking, unprincipled waste of carbon.

      • God yes! I guess I am lucky that when I found out the big lies-cheating and drug use-I immediately lost all love for my XH. It was replaced with rage and disgust which I used to divorce his ass quickly. How’s that for a fight wanker!?

  • Dear George,

    I read your letter and was starting through Chump Lady’s response when my brain came to a screeching halt. “Wait a damn minute…did I just read what I thought I read?” said my brain. Went back and looked and sure enough I saw this: “In the last couple of days she keeps making jokes about it all, and one of her favourite ones…”. I haven’t finished Chump Lady’s response or read any of the other comments because that one sentence shook me to my core and I just have to get this out.

    She admitted fucking her coworker and shortly after that she is making JOKES about it? JOKES? And so many of them that she has FAVORITE ones??? Holy shit George. She is a wife and a mother. She has a disabled child. She KNOWINGLY allowed herself to fall onto some strange dick (oops!!), risking her children’s intact family, risking your mental and physical well being, risking her children’s financial well being (’cause employers tend to frown on at work fucking), not to mention all sense of morality and common decency, and she has the unmitigated nerve to make JOKES???? “Oh hey George honey, I just blew up our family and destroyed your heart, isn’t that hilarious?” No it’s not. It’s revolting.

    George, there is nothing to work with in that woman. She is beyond selfish. She is a giant gaping hole of narcissistic entitlement. Save yourself and your kids. Lose that cheater and gain a life.

    Big hugs.

    p.s. My son’s name is George. I think that’s why this hit me so hard. It brought out the mama bear. This is what I would tell my George if he were in your shoes.

  • Mine left, came back, found out he cheated, wreckonciliation, left again 2 years later (this time I was 6 month pregnant), and then came back. I did not know yet about OW#2 (but suspected since behavior was the same). I told him he needed to do 3 things if he wanted me and his family back: go to the doctor, get into counselling, and make changes to his lifestyle. He continued to stay (sleeping in the basement) but not do those things.

    One night, he didn’t come home. When I asked him the next day where he stayed, he said, “Do you even care?” He wanted me to go over the top to make him feel wanted and loved so he would stay. That is just back asswards. He should have been fighting for us and our forgiveness. I eventually told him to find somewhere else to stay until he got help for his issues and proved over a period of time that there was real change. Within 2 weeks, he started staying with OW#2.

    People like that do not change. People like that do not view loved ones in the same way we do. We value. They use. Go see a lawyer. Anyone who says the things she has is giving you a glimpse into her thoughts and heart. And trust me, it is so much worse inside there than you can even imagine.

    • Yes, when you have to tell people how to change/prove they are committed, it’s also a huge red flag. My X definitely turned my righteous anger around on me and tried to make me feel like I didn’t care or love him enough. I wasn’t going to dance to make him stay — the dancing was HIS job and he seriously failed. Not that I was too surprised at that point. Honestly, the shock overlapped everything for months and turned the whole mess into one big pile of numb. Even if you don’t know what to make of the situation in the midst of the shock of it all, it’s important to know your own boundaries and what the cheater’s responsibilities are if they still even give a damn (which, it seems, most don’t).

      George, you seem to be in a more flagrant situation where cheater wife is cracking jokes instead of sulking around. So it’s just downright insulting (or laughable, as it seems you have taken that stance, which is great because humor is definitely needed) that she expects that she can openly get her jollies and have you dance for her while she does nada (or laughs some more at the whole thing, I suppose). I hope you take her to the cleaners and have the last laugh.

  • Get her to discuss how she had sex with him *in writing.*

    Plan your escape and primary custody… take the children with you. Their mother clearly has issues with impulse control and is too unstable to provide security for her special-needs child. Put your heartbroken frustration to good use by taking the reigns on this and filing first, for custody and divorce.

  • I don’t know how far along you are George, if it’s still just a couple of weeks or if it’s more, but I hope that you get to the place where you realize what kind of person your wife is really quickly. That’s the only way to separate yourself emotionally, view your wife’s actions for the selfish dysfunction that they are, and then separate yourself from her.

    You’ll still be left with the questions like “did she change or was she always this way?” and “how in the hell did I marry this woman?” And those are questions that we all struggle with.

    Good luck.

  • All newbies, stay strong…stay here.
    To all of you pick me dancing….”fighting” for them, I’m sorry. It’s a process, and unfortunately, I don’t care who you are, there are very few of us that didn’t do something humiliating that just makes us cringe now trying to save that shit show.
    But the chumps that have some distance are like
    “Pick me dance? Fight for you??? FUCK THAT.” That happens by reading here….EVERYDAY.
    I am thankful for the healing that happens here.
    We’re it not for Chump nation, I would still be dancing.
    Stay strong newbies, it gets sooooo much better.

  • As many others have said – time to go, this one’s done. It is really funny how the cheater will create a narriative with the AP that you are some horrid monster. Mine certainly did that and continues to, just not to my face and she abandoned me. I am trying to think of this your situation like this:

    Stay and fight = NO – cue the Price is Right losing music

    Protect my family and boot this one out = Ding, Ding, Ding , Ding! Cue the Price is Right winning music and Bob Barker telling you to spay and neuter your pets.

    Mine tried to do some of this before I found out about the affair through her actions but in the long run, I kicked her ass out when she admitted the affair, she has and continues to lie about it to others and her family and had abandoned me. It hurts, but this is the way it has to be. Your wife, like mine is now a toxin that you have to manage and get out of your life. Take the wise advice from here, make sure you get the Bob Barker outcome from above, it will serve you much better.

    • I’ve referred to X as a cancerous lump that I can’t remove (due to sharing my having to share our daughter with him). The whole medical management analogy is right on. I am envious of those of you who can cut and run, so to speak.

  • I told the AP to come pick him up and move him in with her. She never showed up. Hmmm….imagine that? I’m sure her boyfriend would have an issue with it for some reason. Especially since it was his house my husband would have to move into. Funny how priorities change once they get caught. Not so much fun anymore.

  • Years ago I had a neighbor whose middle age mother lost her husband in a wreck and became psychotic overnight. I don’t think it is that rare. Also, early onset dementia happens. If her behavior has changed that drastically you might want a complete physical done.

  • Run as fast as you can!

    My cheater ex said the same thing, “why didn’t you fight for us?” I think it’s crazy projection along with a side of delusion. Cheaters seem to think they are worth fighting for after all the shit they pull. It really is delusional. NO cheater is worth fighting for. I’ll tell you what is worth fighting for; a good, sane, healthy life away from these mind-fucking cheaters. I hope you are well on your way to a new better life.

  • Yeah.

    I wanted my husband to fight for me too. I wanted him to step up and be a man and husband when life got hard and I was busy adulting and laying a foundation for our life and future. I wanted him to realize what I was giving up so he could go to “school” and encourage ME for a change. I wanted him to congratulate me for making Dean’s List and not make me feel like I couldn’t celebrate because he failed Algebra. I wanted him to act like he gave a damn.

    The difference is that I didn’t fuck anyone else thinking that was the best way to make it happen.

    Dude. There’s plenty of women who you can fight for who are actually worth a damn. She’s not.

    Cut your losses and start over.

  • She wants you to fight for her? Oh puhleez!! The answer to that is: “No thanks, you’re not worth it.” So she screwed you over by cheating on you and now you have to fight for her? Is she for real. There is nothing to fight over, she is not worth salvaging, nor keeping, nor interacting with. She is a loser.

  • “OH HELL NO”

    Leave a cheater gain a life 🙂 these disordered, delusional people are so twisted. Not normal and will not change! Don’t waste your life with her, believe who she has showed you WHO she is! (I wasted 31 yrs)

  • Saionara bitch!

    George, I feel really bad for you man, having been in the exact same place at one time.

    The second you found out about her actions means that your relationship with her was over forever. Dead relationship walking.

    Unfortunately you had no choice but that is what has been handed to you.

    I hope to God that you are one of the few that do not have to go through all the stages of Chumpdom before realizing it and moving on.

    If the winds are favorable you can set sail for a new life right now. It won’t be easy at all thanks to that bitch, but I absolutely guarantee you when she fades into the distance, life as you know it will be infinitely better.

    • As someone who tried to patch things up after finding out about that “one time” I agree. When I found out that one time was for 2 yrs and continued as I danced, I agree. Had I known it continued I would’ve left but I found out after I invested and she broke it off and was ready to start new with me. When I found it started again 3 months after we were starting new, I went to a lawyer. The money and time I lost dancing though. Fuck me. I’m so sorry bro.

  • You’re already starting to see that your whole relationship has been lopsided in her favor. It takes a while for the whole of it to hit. At least it did for me.
    It’s the worst decision to have to make, but it’s obvious that you must walk away from this toxic situation immediately.

    I love what Eilonwy said about being the super hero for your kids. Focus everything on them and just walk through this shitty process one step at a time. You will get to the other side and it is worth everything.

  • George, don’t fight for her. FIGHT FOR YOURSELF.

    Fight for your right to be healthy, happy, and free of emotional abuse and insanity!

  • Simple answer for George, if he wants to say anything at all to his Cheater Wife rather than throw her out immediately:
    “CW, you betrayed me, you betrayed us. You fight for me and you fight for us. I didn’t do anything, and I am not going to do anything.”
    This, because I am being polite…
    George, other than that, my advice is Customer Service Grey Rock and meeting with all the best lawyers in town without telling her. Line up your ducks. If she does the work on her and you have a Unicorn, great. Otherwise, you’ll be prepared for the shit storm. Post nup essential as part of the fighting-for-you, make sure you have custody of the kids in the post nup, and she is not allowed to introduce AP(s) to them.

  • Oh George. My X also told me I did not fight hard enough for him.

    The thought process behind that statement is pure crazy talk.

    Be prepared for rage when you file. Cheaters hate consequences.

  • Wow. The last time I thought it might be “cool” for boys to fight over me, I was about fifteen years old! And, even then, I figured all it proved was how immature they both were, and how unable to use their words like rational adults. (Or, in the case of the one boy, to understand that “no, I don’t like you and do not want to date you” means just that. It doesn’t mean that you harass my friends, show up unannounced at my house, or make sad yet vaguely threatening phone calls to me late at night. No means go away!)

    George, you deserve better. She’s being ridiculous and hurtful. You are the hero of *your own* story; not a minor character in hers. I’m sorry this is happening to you.

  • Regardless of anything, I promise you that you will save yourself years of misery if you simply see a lawyer, draw up papers, file, get her out of the house asap, and finalize the divorce asap.

    I promise.

    This is a wonderful change to build a new life that is consistent with your values, without wasting one iota of your valuable energy on the why and how of her ability to egregiously disrespect and abuse you and harm you.

  • Ask her “who in their right minds fights for a piece of shit?” Then laugh and make it your favorite joke. If you can get out right away, good. If you live in some fucked up state that’ll punish you for being a good husband and father, get your ducks in a row.

  • Just a quick public service announcement for Chumps.

    The RIC does not take into consideration many of the price tags of attempting wreckconciliation with a cheater. The time you waste dancing, or fighting, can have long term financial implications. I work for a community college in Financial Aid. Every day I see women and men who cannot provide proof of separation or divorce in order to receive aid to put their lives back together because they have dithered around separating, and reuniting, and mixing money and tax information, and losing time and money and assets and patience and dignity and everything else in a fight you not only cannot win but probably shouldn’t even want to win. It is one of the banes of my existence. What does such a ROMCOM fight truly cost you? At least half of everything you have, maybe more, and such an astronomical emotional cost that you can barely believe it will ever be paid. There are many finite reasons not to fight or dance.

    Sorry for the downer — but I’ve worked with this stuff all day and I am exhausted!

  • I can’t even begin to wrap my mind around cheaters like these. Fight for them? Nah, I’ll fight for a Klondike bar before I’d fight for another person to stay with me.

    Exh#1 AND exh#2 both tried to get me to fight for them. I danced the “pick-me-dancing” rumba, but it didn’t matter, no matter what I did. Until I stopped, then they left for their APs.

    I see it as winning actually. I win myself back, the woman with morals, character, and values.

  • It’s amazing how they are able to inflict all these little cuts on you and you don’t even realize it until you’re hemorrhaging. Stop the bleeding, George.

  • My STBXH loved the pick me dance, which lasted around 2 months before I left the dance floor. I won’t bore you, but it was sick the way he played me and the OW off one another, and he clearly got a kick out of it.

    The toddler tantrum when he received the letter from my solicitor stating “your wife has informed me the marriage is over” was spectacular. Blubbing, wailing, yelling at me “What on earth is this?” – it was truly pathetic and just added to my revulsion of the man. And the ensuing panic when he realised I was buying him out of the house and he had to find somewhere else to live – priceless.

    George – run, run far away! Pick your battles and fight for YOU – your freedom, your self- respect, and the right to be treated with decency.

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