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A Shout Out to All You Stalking Cheaters

It’s come to my attention that some of you are stalked here at Chump Nation by your cheating exes. Generally this happens when deep in the throes of chumpiness, the chump sends the cheater an article from this site in a futile effort to get them to Understand Your Pain.

This is about as effective as trying to teach your pet rock Swahili… but the point is, folks, don’t share your safe place with fuckwits, okay? Keep it anonymous. Some creepy exes try to hunt down familiar screen names or cyber stalk to use shit against you in court.

These people suck.

Pity their kibble affliction, the way they desperately crave centrality. So today, stalking cheaters, I’m a throwing you a squeaky chew toy. Here’s a column JUST FOR YOU! Revel in it. Share it on your social media. Hell, go share it with your chump!


Dear Douchebag,

Welcome to Chump Lady! I’m sure you will find the content here extremely uncomfortable. Like flay-the-skin-off-your-face-spinning-off-your-motorcycle-into-a-pit-of-gravel kind of uncomfortable. That’s intentional. I don’t write for you. I write for the person you gutted with betrayal.

Gutted. Isn’t that the sort of hyperbolic, over-the-top, victim-speak with which you take umbrage? Who are we to discuss the shitty things you do and compare notes? How dare we have a little corner of the Internet devoted to your ridicule. The affair was an Exuberant Act of Defiance! A Singular Mistake! A couple dozen dating profiles and secret cell phone plan! It’s not like you meant to hurt your chump intentionally. They’re just a spot of collateral damage on the path to greater self-actualization and furtive boners.

Douche, I’m not going to try and explain the chump experience for you. Umefungwa sana. (That’s Swahili for “You are awfully dim-witted.”) If you can’t figure out how devastating infidelity is and how very much you suck by observing your own sobbing/catatonic/furious partner, I seriously doubt my blog can help you.

But help is not why you’re here, is it? I mean, I know chump pain is intoxicating (speaking of furtive boners) — the way it seems All About You. Seeing yourself discussed might remind you fondly of the ol’ pick-me-dance. (I MATTER!!! ME! ME! ME!) But Douche, it’s not about you. This place is for chumps, to claim their mightiness and leave you to the irrelevance you so richly deserve.

What? There are KIBBLES here and they aren’t for YOU?

Yes. It’s tragic when we have to share the kibbles, isn’t it? Let me hold your hand. Now twist it behind your back… and… stick your head in a toilet. This will make our relationship stronger. Trust me!

You’ll be happy to know that there is the entire rest of the internet to bless with the wonderfulness that is you. Your fetid brand of narcissistic cluelessness isn’t welcome here, but if you insist on sticking around, I’m sure Chump Nation will have some choice words for you in the comments.

Besides, don’t you have something better to do? Like fuck a teenage intern, sprinkle medicated powder on your pubic lice, or read an Esther Perel article?

Yours fuck-off-ishly,

Chump Lady

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  • Pffft – my ex would never read this. I showed her the “Naughahide” article and just got blank stare.

    There is no reasoning with crazy and something like this would be quickly dismissed by the truly narcissistic like her. Too busy being fabulous to read about the little people and their problems.

    An ex- reading this is a whole other thing – sick to the core or looking for evidence. I pity the poor chump who is shaking that monkey off their back. Boy won’t you feel good when they’re gone?

    • If the DOCTOR read this site at all, or even my screen name, it would be the first time in decades he “heard” anything I’ve cared about.

      Unicorn, much?

      • If it didn’t have anything to do with him personally or affect him in anyway or an article on something to do with his health, another supplement which would grant him eternal youth or his imagined health issues. It wouldn’t be worth his time..
        If there’s a potential of reading something I’d written, he could interject some play with worlds, create some drama, play the wounded the victim of my abuse and mental illness and schedule a court hearing for his entertainment. It would be worth his time, of which he has plenty. That’s what pilots do when they work “on call” absolutely nothing.
        What is the saying, “idle hands are the devil’s workshop?”

  • I got my wife to agree to watch a video from a reconciliation site once. Th guy starts to say his affair was about running away from his problems. She said that was enough, like 10 secs was all she could take. This weekend is realized how obvious it was the affair wasn’t over. I would talk about it and people even my therapists asked is it still going on and I’d say no, talk about a blindspot.

    • yeah I think my wife’s affair is over too, but you never truly know….and that’s just way to much to deal with. I’m a good person and I nor anyone else should have to live with that. Trust that they suck, they are dishonest, they are manipulative and they only care about themselves (and don’t change). ChumpLady is right in her book- there is someone else out there that is better for you- why?- because they haven’t cheated on you- that makes them automatically better. I’m 5 months in from Dday hell and so ready for divorce time.

      • The thing I figured with my wife is…. even if I give her every benefit of the doubt possible… even if I believed that it was a mistake…. even if I generously allowed that she was manipulated and seduced by a sociopath that knew exactly how to exploit her vulnerabilities… even if I were to agree that she, in a way, is also a victim… even if I were to extend forgiveness, & allow that she has the best of intentions going forward… and just to be clear, this is hypothetical, I don’t actually think any of the above (just incase she is reading 😉 ), but i’m just saying, even if I allowed for the ‘best case scenario’….

        …even in the case of all of that…

        …would I, objectively, want to be partner to someone who I know has a vulnerability that exposes me to pain and suffering?

        I wouldn’t go into business with someone who I knew had a gambling problem, and I wouldn’t enter into a romantic partnership with someone who I knew had a cheating problem. It may be a weakness and I may even feel sorry for them and want them to get help. But expose myself to hurt by partnering with them?

        The answer is a big fat ‘Nope’.

        • You are way ahead of me seeing it this way. When I was in that spot, I was NOT brave or realistic enough to admit to myself that “He CHOSE this, he did this to me ….this is who he REALLY is”.

          I just reached for more hopium and smoked it.

        • I just want to say I love how much dialogue is present from some male chumps. Maybe a year ago there were a few chumps who were feeling pretty beat up, a lot of the messaging on a few posts were bashing men and it made them lose heart. I love the incredible messages you guys are sending and hope you feel loved and supported because you are valued and awesome. May this be a safe space for all chumps.

          • If a woman is cheated on, the woman is pitied and the guy is vilified.

            If a guy is cheated on, it must have been because the guy drove her to it, and the guy is labeled a loser.

            • Nope. It is assumed that the woman is fat/ugly/mean/frigid and so on and so forth.

              Attacking chumps is an equal opportunity sport.

              Sucks every time.

              • I would agree with that Cashmere. I do think male and female chumps are attacked in ever so slightly different ways, but neither has it easier than the other.

              • Don’t forget that the women is also labeled psycho, bipolar, alcoholic, unstable, lazy, angry, abusive and refused to attend marriage therapy.
                This is a condescend list of things X claimed I was.
                All while trying to hold our marriage together, dancing the pick me dance like dancing fool, spackling, begging X to go to marriage therapy, keeping the house immaculate, taking care of all his needs, our son, cooking his favorite meals. Greeting him with a smile, thanking him for things such as letting the dog out. Asking him what I could do to make him happy, when he finally tells me he wants “something different.” He forgot to mention he had already found his something different who he had more in common with.
                Nice of him to let me know after 24 years being together, 20 married, what could we have in common after 24 years???

            • Oh my gosh I hope this is not true! I would never think that about a guy who was cheated on. Not everyone is that cruel. Be well. Hugs!

              • True, t\Thrive, not everyone is that cruel – I’m also glad we have some gender diversity here, chumps.
                But I DO trust that there are cruel cheaters of every stripe – male, female, all sexual identities – it’s a character thing, not a stereotype or cliche. The pain inflicted is real and devastating. I SO love that CL places the focus on what do WE want? I’ve had plenty of what cheater wants. Simple: wants to cheat. AND it isn’t just about the sex/attention/etc., it is the TRIANGLE they crave – the tension, playing people off each other or getting higher highs from keeping secrets, all those elements – the kibble and cake and pick-me dancing. Otherwise, they would have divorced then screwed around. F that & F them! I know I don’t want that. Bye bye cheaters!

          • @Creativerational, it’s great to see you write that, thank you for taking the time.

            You know, I get the feeling that it’s meant to be taboo to speak about being chumped – for both men and women. I’ve been completely open, honest & matter of fact about what’s going on in my life and all sorts of stories come out of the woodwork from others around me. It’s been remarked by several people around me that they find how I’m managing inspirational, but I don’t feel like i’m doing anything unusual since, in my view there’s nowhere to hide from this (except for at the bottom of a bottle), so I don’t. But if that means I can do my part to break down the particular taboo of being a male chump, then I will. And if being open and honest and having dialogue with other men in similar situations helps do that, then I will pursue that to the fullest.

            I don’t see it as something we should be ashamed about, it doesn’t make us weak men. Actually it gives us an opportunity to show our strength and integrity. I think we probably all (men and women) feel societal pressure to keep it to ourselves or to share the blame, but I think men in particular are probably worse at being open about what is going on (in the same way men are less likely to go to the Doctor when they have a problem than women). The tendency is to think that being cheated on undermines our masculinity, which, well I’m not sure whether women feel the inadequacy on the same scale?

            I do cringe slightly when I see posts here that use gender specific language (almost always in the vein of all cheaters being men), and would encourage my fellow posters to be neutral when generalizing behavior – as both men and women are capable of acting in almost identical, cheating ways.

            And I would encourage other male chumps to continue to post and share, because we need to make it normal for our fellow men to talk about their experiences.

            • Love this answer, MightyChris. Yes, it deeply undermines female chumps’ femininity to admit to being cheated on. In addition to an assumed lack of attractiveness I think there’s another thing – we are also assumed to be a nag or not caring enough. I’m not sure I see the same judgement of character rather than attractiveness being made of male chumps. It’s interesting if you turn that on its head, that female partners are expected to be sexually attractive AND compliant/submissive, while male partners are expected to be virile. Do you think this is a real thing, chumps, or just my perception of it?

        • @MightyChris…I am a good chump. Although I separated from my husband of 23 years because of his cheating and lying and filed for divorce on October 10, I still find myself running through the “benefit of the doubt” scenario. In fact, I just did it this morning in my own head as we prepare to tell our 3 kids the devastating news tonight…but…and this is a huge chumpy but (butt???)…I still know I made the right choice in leaving him for exactly the reasons you described. I will not knowingly expose myself to the hurt…I choose me. And I choose all of the healthy, safe friends and family I am still surrounded by. Blessings to you and all other chumps.

          • Good for you, ALH. It’s gonna be a tough conversation but you will get through this.

            Keep us posted please!

            • Thinking of you, April. It’s a tough decision either way. You have CL & all of CN behind you. My heart still wants me to keep running that hopium treadmill. But I’ve done that already & it just got me DDay3…do you really want any more of those?
              My kids are a main reason I’m leaving – they have to see someone stand up for what’s right & say no to any form of abuse – and cheating IS abuse – emotional, financial, spiritual, sexual. I want no one to ever treat them like this, but if they do, I want them to know they can walk away and thrive.
              Peace out, my dear chumpy ones. We ARE mighty. Sometimes there are tears there and ambivalence and some hurt, but we can change the script for the better by knowing OUR WORTH. And we are worth SO. MUCH. MORE. than we got. Whatever our flaws, we stayed true and tried to make it work, tried to be loving and steadfast. THEY turned the tables, not us.

              • Chump Diva, I have been reading your posts and just want to say that you have inspired me. Our stories are very similar, after a long term marriage 39 years, 40 together, it is a struggle some days to accept that this is the way things turned out. Like you I had an earlier DDay 20 years ago, but spackled over things and thought that we had a mature loving relationship. Of course once a cheater always…. a cheater. You are right about, that it’s not just the sex etc. for my X anyway, it’s the triangulation that he craves and the drama. My X is not stupid he knows the chances of he and Schmoopie making a go if it is almost nil but he still blew up our family, our history everything we worked for over 40 years. Like a lemming dashing for the cliff. I think my Tuesday is here or it’s just around the corner, seeing these cheaters for what they are makes it clear they are on a path of self destruction and we have to get as far away as possible for our own survival. I too, know my worth and I’m busy making a new life for myself. Thanks for your insight. Hugs

          • Any sane and rational person would think long and hard before doing something with such massive impacts on their family. Being careful and thoughtful doesn’t make you chumpy, it makes you rational. Throwing your family under the bus without thinking it through or caring about the consequences is what cheaters do. Good luck with such a heart wrenching discussion with your kids tonight, and trust that you are modeling strong boundaries and rejecting someone who would actively violate everything that is sacred in your marriage.

            Big hugs to you.

        • Exactly. After D Day, I cried to my therapist about the cheating and abuse that my then H was administering. I tried to make excuses for him, it was a Midlife Crisis, you see. Not my “real” husband. He was in the “fog” and under the influence of a predatory whore.

          The therapist told me a story about when he worked in a psychiatric hospital with his fiancé. They dealt with the same schizophrenic patient. The patient would be nice to my IC, but horrible to his fiancé. He asked me if I knew why. I said that I did not. IC told me that even a schizophrenic (a major DSM V mental illness compared to the questionable MLC) can decide how they treat you. He knows exactly what he is doing. This is who HE is! Ugh. That was heartbreaking and liberating at the same time. My then X wasn’t a timid forest creature but rather a cheating asshole with a penchant for porn and rancid whore kibble.

          • Yes, they choose to make every decision to cheat, lie and treat you like a piece of trash. They then “get off” on the pain they cause you.

            CL, your mentioning medicated powder reminded of a few cheater items I don’t miss:

            1. His reeking medicated talcum powder and tubes of various ointments (he told me he had athlete’s foot from the health club that spread to his man parts-chumpy me believed him). He would shake it all over the showers and bathroom floors for me to clean up; yuk!

            2. Powder scented baby wipes…kept in every vehicle and bathroom (he said were for his delicate parts; sheesh…man child). After affair clean up was actual truth.

            3. Gallons of mouthwash and cases of chewing gum also kept in every vehicle, many cupboards and computer bag (Nothing can mask the foul, lying breath of a middle-aged cheater).

            The list of small, disordered and strange goes on but the more important, bigger picture items I don’t miss:

            1. Cancer literally and literally.
            2. STD testing.
            3. Hard earned money diverted into hidden accounts and spent on hidden life with prostitutes.
            4. Lies, deceit and wasted time.

            Things I now enjoy since leaving and divorcing a cheater:

            1. Health.
            2. Happiness and joy.
            3. Clear, unfucked with, thinking.
            4. Peaceful, quiet and low-to-no drama authentic living.
            5. Stable ground and fresh air.
            6. Self love and care.

            Cheaters, with CL and CN, you are yesterday’s bad memories growing dimmer and dummer by the minute.

            • I also missed the red flags of obsessive anal hygiene and gum. Oh and blankets and sheets in the back of the family minivan…

            • FREENOW

              Thank you for posting the list of upsides to your new life. I needed to read that today. After a 35 year marriage and enslaving myself to the “cause” of his DOCTOR greatness (“cutting edge medicine/saving lives/emergency!!”)

              I’m here.

              I do a lot of second guessing – which I want to stop doing. Please help!

              When I let myself get real, I resist the realization that it’s impossible. I imagine that the DOCTOR wakes up to the reality that the tundra is not paradise – (FYI he’s in Alaska where he will never age, and everyone wants to hunt and fish, and have sex without too much foreplay, and blah blah blah) and he has to “WORK” at all relationships and wouldn’t it be easier to do with the mother of his kids, who are btw, not speaking to him, and tundra schmoopie is not as smart or funny as Chump (which is fucking HAS to be true, believe me) and

              could it be, could it be?? that the DOCTOR made a mistake???? WHAT??

              But to even ponder this^^, the following would have to happen –

              1) seismic change occurs in the DOCTOR, AND

              2) he cares about hurting the 4 people who love him the most AND

              3) he wants to change! AND

              4) he begins to do the long hard work of introspection and trust rebuilding AND

              5) he deeply apologizes for the harm done me and our kids, AND

              6) he gets it!!!

              Time passes….(insert the song “Memories” here. The shriller, the better)…

              and it hits me that even with all of this^^^, I am stuck with 2920457 images in my head, that even electric shock therapy and massive tranquilizers will not erase.

              And knowing he could do this^^^, means he’s not the man I hoped he was, or believed he was OR ever was. And going forward, he’s not the man I need in my life.

              Tragically, there is no time machine to go backwards in, to get to the point before he became the selfish dishonest betraying bastard he is now. And there’s no time machine to go forward in, to get to the big payoff finale WE were sacrificing for…

              I wish I did not believe this,^^^ but too much has happened to unknow what I know, or to unsee what I have seen.

              How I wish this was not true. But it is. So I’m going to bang my head with CL and CN notes until it sinks into my head AND heart.

              If someone could give me a time line on this, I could use it. It’s been a year since separating and I have not seen the DOCTOR in that year.

              No contact. And no contact with our kids either.

              THE DOCTOR called my lawyer brother to try and reduce legal costs (fine by me, just pay what the judge said).

              Brother said the DOCTOR “was very subdued. Sounded beaten and sad…” DOCTOR texted me to say that brother had been “very helpful.”

              And Chump that I am, I began wondering if it was RUDE OF ME not to answer him.

              OMG I need help.

              • Doctor’s1st, you hit the nail on the head. 7 years after Affair #1, there was Affair #2, and I kicked him out, he went gladly. Within a couple of months, he was sniffing around again …. He spent 2 full years periodically coming around to sound me out, would I be open to ‘trying again’.

                I thought about it hard, when he started getting the sadz and ‘wanting to talk’. What would have to happen, for me to be able to take him back. I made a huge list (none of which he would have been willing to do, of course … he hadn’t done any of it after Affair #1, AND he was trying to get back together with me, while still with Schmoopie. Cheater to the core). I looked at that list, and realized, the only thing that could repair our relationship was a time machine.

              • It takes time and, in a long term marriage, more time than most people would think necessary. There were months, hell at least the first year, when I thought I would never make it to the other side. But I am there, now. Is everything perfect? No, because life itself is not perfect; that expectation in and of itself sets one up for failure and disappointment.

                I’m good, though. I can take care of myself and I am proud of what I have accomplished on my own. My kids are also finding their places in the world. It has been a difficult journey, but I truly believe I am a wiser, more compassionate person because of what I have been through.

                I recently read Jenny Allen’s book, Would Everyone Please Stop? I highly recommend it to everyone. Her famous playwright husband left her for another woman, after Jenny had been diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She writes with such humor and insight about those of us left in a daze with the old house, the teenagers and the X who continues to try control the narrative. Reading it reminded me that she is not alone, I am not alone, and you are not alone. One day in the near future, your Tuesday will arrive, and it will be glorious.

              • Doctor’s1st,
                I am SO sorry for the pain you’re continuing to feel! This is emotional wreckage that is beyond the pale. Please stay strong for yourself – there is real relief if you continue to seek YOUR worth separate from his image.Your kids already know what time it is – they have distanced themselves because they feel it & may have long before your Dday. They have great instincts.
                For the record, my cheater (“BossHogg”, who bought schmoopie some daisy dukes cutoffs, a thong, cheap perfume, some bras & a vibrator – her work supplies as a subcontracting house painter) APPEARS to be doing the entire RIC dance: hired his OWN therapist, got a sponsor (12-Step, he was self-sponsoring during the 3-year “EA”affair), bought himself all the “right” books, appeared to answer all my many questions as honestly as he is capable, abides by my NC & boundaries set, etc. etc. But, I can’t get past that I would NEVER trust him again. This was Dday#3, even though 1 &2 were at the beginning of the marriage (read: young, dumb, optimistic hopium addict wife) 26 years ago. I thought we had had a faithful run for about 20+ years until Dday3 (day after my birthday 4.5 months ago). I can NEVER believe there weren’t numerous others all along. And have no reason to trust any other thing he ever says.
                And – going back to the OW letter earlier this month – what would I win IF I took him back? the joys of looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life? marriage police 24/7? eggshell-walking and trying to “prove my love” and pick-me dance with ghosts? I can’t even erase the images from his equally-narcissistic MOW – selfie-queen trash, who behaved like a pre-teen. He wanted to chase THAT? No THANK YOU! No sloppy seconds, here! I am a brilliant, funny, caring, generous, professional, compassionate, authentic WOMAN, not a cheap girl.
                I was deeply in love with this man, whom I called the love of my life. I knew we were a couple others wished they were like – some even told me. It’s very hard to file those papers, but I spent the day at my lawyer’s office today, finally moving forward after similar fits & starts. *I* didn’t END our 30 year marriage – he did that when he turned to chase Daisy and every day since when he chose to continue it. I’ve lived his big “Fuck you” now it’s MY turn. I am finding it easier and easier to feel mighty as I read your stories and advice, hard-won from the scars they have left on us. You are some amazing human beings! And even though you are rent through the middle like I have been, you come here and share your joys & pains so that we can rise together better!
                We are NOT victims, though they have abused the hell out of us – some in more ways & more evilly than others. The price of admission is high to CN – we have each earned our seats in this house. But we can hold our heads high and let them carry their own shame, their own betrayal, their own ugly ways. We were with them, but we aren’t party to their garbage. ANd the sooner we Lose that CHeater – the closer we move towards GAINING a LIFE. Thank you CL & CN. SOrry for the lengthy rant.

              • DOCTOR’s wife. “OMG I need help.”

                I think you would start to heal if you quit calling this asshole a DOCTOR! Or, you are ‘owned by a DOCTOR’, (as in the Doctor’s wife)

                I think you deserve a far more appropriate name like…I survived the EGO of a DOCTOR. pffft…on these men/women who float by in life by thinking they are Gods.

        • Ah yes the “best case scenario” thing I did that as well- and cheater wife pushed that storyline in the beginning until I found out she was celebrating her awesome adultery with a fellow female coworker/adulterer. Its a form of ‘pick me dance’- mental gymnastics. I had to stop myself from thinking like that.

        • Exposes you to pain, suffering AND disease. Knowingly. I forever will scratch my head wondering why legally we cannot call this for what it is (not a lawyer, so correct me if I am off base) ….manslaughter.

          • Not manslaughter because that requires a death. But likely assault, battery, a lesser form of rape (no consent if consent was based on misrepresentation of fidelity), maybe theft. Civil claims include fraud, assault and battery, breach of fiduciary duty, conversion, outrage, intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligence, tortious interference with business expectancies. I’m writing a legal book about cases where chumps have successfully sued.

            • Is breach of contract no longer a thing? Marriage is one helluva LEGAL beast, and there seems to be a plethora of charges that should be covered by their behavior. I would LOVE to read your book, MotherChumper99! I’m a writer if you want a reader before publishing. This topic is very interesting to me, too. Good to know there’s a chump on the mission!

        • MightyChris, that is an insightful way of putting it.

          If you had a family member who had repeated problems with overspending, you probably wouldn’t let them talk you into giving them a big loan. Even though they might seem sincere in their promise to repay, you know chances are good that they won’t. You’ve seen it happen again and again. Trusting them could create pain and hardship for you. Maybe you love them, but you don’t go into business with them. Maybe you offer to feed their cat while they’re looking for a new place instead.

        • Exactly. I told my spouse that I would never willingly marry a cheater, what makes him think I would stay married to one now? His answer? “Because we have a bond together”. I looked at him and said that apparently this bond didn’t help much when you decided to mentally and emotionally divorce me while galavanting around with your married howorker behind my back when I needed you.

          *Silence ensued*

    • I read your post several times and I gather you’re still with your cheater.

      You need to get out!!!

      I understand why you have it another shot but it is time to leave.

      How can I say that? I don’t know you or anything about you!

      Sad thing is, I don’t have to. I’m sorry but just your short paragraph told me you have nothing to work with. It doesn’t even matter if the affair is still going on. You don’t have a loving, respectful or healthy partner. Nothing left to even think about.

      I’m sorry for your pain but it’s the only way out.

      • Thanks, actually I filed in April, dday was the Monday after Thanksgiving so we made it through the holidays but she didn’t do anything to ether reconnect with me or end the affair, she lied and said she did but I realize the truth looking back now. We sold the family home in Aug. and both live in separate apt. Share custody. I’m trying to be a good dad, she’s trying to pretend she’s not with the loser illegal alien anymore (I’ve seen her credit card statements and she has an ElSalvadore keychain now yuck) thanks for the support everyone. One day at a time

        • Mighty mighty mighty. Meh approaches, but in the meantime, many of us still have to live with the unwinding of a joint life, worry about the kids, grieve what we thought we had. Proud of you B&C. Rock steady. Your kids are blessed to have you.

          • Wow, nailed it with “unwinding of a joint life, worry about the kids, grieve what we thought we had.” I’m right in the thick of it! Did a chumpy thing today but got the b-slap of reality to set me back on path to meh.

            • Best, best wishes. I extend the olive branch of grace for any chumpy things, past and future. This is not easy. It is our essential goodness that makes it hard to accept that someone else has a bucket of snails where their heart should be.

              • Do I detect a new Friday challenge? What repugnant thing lurks where a human heart should dwell? I could spend days thinking up hilarious things, but I could never top the ease with which you just delivered that gem, This Is Not A Thing. Bucket of snails!! You just made me do a shotgun of laughter into my living room.

    • That sucks. Truly sucks. I’ve gone through similar with my wife.

      In my opinion, the cheater’s typical target state is to have a happy marriage with you, plus the affair on the side. They are walking a tightrope in a way, trying to do just enough to get you back to a happy, trusting state so that your marriage can pick up where it left off, while trying to hold enough back that they can keep the affair ongoing.

      That’s why there’s this odd sense of cognitive dissonance that you’re picking up on. They’re not really committing to the reconcile, because to commit to the reconcile would be to close the door on the affair. And to end up with ‘marriage + no affair’ is not their target state. On the other hand, they’re trying to make it seem like they’re committing to the reconcile, and do just enough to keep your engaged, because ‘no marriage but still having the AP’ is also not desirable to them (heaven forbid, then they’d have to have a real relationship).

      The only way this balance works for them though, is by putting their chump in a position where they will always, always, always get less than what they’re asking for/need from the reconciliation. If we’re super chumpy, we will be happy with whatever they’re willing to give us, and spackle the rest. If we’re plain old chumpy, we will probably take them at their word, but continue with a growing sense of unease and unhappiness until 2+2 starts to add up. Knowing all of this, I believe we as chumps have a responsibility not to become enablers for our cheating partners. They can only have their cake and eat it if we let them. And the simplest way to deal is by removing ourselves from the equation.

      • This is a comment anyone who is considering staying should read. No mater how much your spouse claims to want to preserve the marriage, what they really want to do is preserve the status quo. Yes, some cheaters want to implode the marriage to be with the AP. Most, however, are perfectly content to have their cake and eat it, too.

        I will never forget the time post-discovery when X was supposedly doing all the right things, including counseling, but something felt off. Fortunately, it didn’t take long for me to figure out it was all a ruse to keep me on the hook. Anyone who believes the affair is somehow behind them and that their spouse is that special unicorn is fooling only one person-themselves.

        • I hate reading about how they never meant to reconcile (not if it meant work on their end).

          I hate feeling like a chump. (I’m not arguing, just bitching).

          I am looping today -and asking the unanswerable questions like HOW can they do this shit? I had his children! We had laughs and achieved so much and raised 3 great kids, whom he doesn’t even talk with BUT is sad about.

          All this, and for what?? Exploded our family and our history (which really pisses me off). Our kids don’t call him “dad” anymore, they use his first name.


          • And after all we do for them that they never appreciated or even noticed, suddenly some Schmoopie comes along, sucks his dick a few times and suddenly it’s some magical, wonderful connection? Huh? And the kids are supposed to like her?

            • Yes they are supposed to embrace Schmoopie asap — Because HE IS SO HAPPY! (Finally).

              If they don’t welcome the replacement, they are banished, because the crazy wife won’t move on, (due to his greatness) and I turned the kids against him…

              • If they think that blowing up their family for a sparkly new life with Schmoopie is fantastic, even though their children abhor them, there is nothing we can do to save them. Much more productive to scrub tree bark with a toothbrush.

            • Its like CL says- it’s delusion. Once reliable monogamous spouse and family are out of the equation the “fun” and “love” with the AP wear off when they try to do regular daily life. They think they are in love but they’re not. They are no longer getting away with something. The high wears off.

          • Ditto. Some days, even at meh the “why why why why why why why” clangs in my head.

          • They especially don’t want to reconcile and face the people (spouse and children) they betrayed, lied to, and wronged.

            They don’t want to spend the rest of their lives with the family they had for 20 years- now being the “bad guy” everyday (and you being the ‘better person’ ‘better parent’)

            They don’t want to feel bad about anything they’ve done, they don’t want to feel guilty.

            They only want to feel good.

            Chumps need to remind ourselves how lucky we are that we don’t have to spend the rest of our lives with selfish people.

            We don’t have to live the next half of our lives with partners we would have to question and couldn’t trust.
            We no longer have to hurt knowing we were never a consideration and that we didn’t matter to someone else because we will not allow ourselves to be in a relationship with a selfish, entitled narcissist.

      • Spot on MC. Leave them and don’t look back. Ever.
        Chumps have too much to offer to waste any more time on parasitic narcs.
        We are mighty 🙂

      • Well said!

        When Chump Lady ran her first limerick contest, one of the winning entries had the lines: “The children and me; will not be Plan B.”

        This encapsulates the Cheater/Chump dynamic. If we were the first and foremost, there would be no cheating. At the same time, we’re good spouses. If we weren’t, then Cheater would be filing for divorce because horrible spouses don’t give kibbles. We Chumps are great kibble dispensers, so Cheaters want to keep us around.

        I saw this acted out when my own CheaterX contacted me when Schmoopie told him she was moving out and filing for divorce. They’d married within 2 months of my moving out of the marital home. The divorce went through a year later. Yes, she was cheating on him the whole time!

        Anyway, he wanted to sit down with me to have a chat about “our” future moving forward.

        I’m not anyone’s Plan B.

        • Omg! They are ALL the same. 7 months post divorce, where I got full custody and 70% of all marital assets. I’m completely NC.

          X emails me last week: I would really like to sit down and talk to you. WTF!
          “No! Hell no!”

          One test I run through my head: if I was on a dating site (I’m not) and I saw a profile of X with the truth about him (yeah, right!), would I ever consider going on a date with him? Hell NO!

          Here’s what his (truthful) profile would look like:

          Serial cheating, pathological lying, sociopath who is prone to blaming others and gaslighting, abandoned kids so no distractions from family, smokes pot, cigarettes, snorts coke and adderal, drinks $3k of booze a month, with severe erectile dysfunction, prone to frequent outbursts of terrifying rage and anger, seeks (chump) who is willing to “make” him happy, feed his ego 24/7, never ask him for anything, willing to “accept him for who he is,” cook, clean, pay bills…..

          Baahaahaaa ????????????????????????


          • MC 99 what a brilliant way to really see what our cheaters have to offer. Love it! I’m going to do that too. Thank you ????

            • MC99, that would be a brilliant Friday theme–honest online dating profiles for our exes!

              “I’m tall and handsome and still have most of my hair. I’ll make you feel like you’re the center of the universe, so you might not suspect for decades that I’m actually a worthless slut. You won’t be enough to distract me from the black hole of nothingness at my core, so I will need many others besides you. I love to have fun, but on my terms only. If you offend me, I will give you the silent treatment so I can watch you bend yourself in various entertaining pretzel shapes figuring out why I’m mad and how to get me to talk again. But I will take you to Mexico often to stay at my vacation shack because; to be perfectly truthful I can’t stand to be alone. I will never remarry because I won’t split my assets AGAIN, but you’ll never know that. Oh, and PS, I’ll supply the Cialis!”

              • -CHAMPCHUMP

                you wrote this online profile for your cheater —

                “I’m tall and handsome and still have most of my hair. I’ll make you feel like you’re the center of the universe, so you might not suspect for decades that I’m actually a worthless slut. You won’t be enough to distract me from the black hole of nothingness at my core, so I will need many others besides you. I love to have fun, but on my terms only. If you offend me, I will give you the silent treatment so I can watch you bend yourself in various entertaining pretzel shapes figuring out why I’m mad and how to get me to talk again. But I will take you to Mexico often to stay at my vacation shack because; to be perfectly truthful I can’t stand to be alone. I will never remarry because I won’t split my assets AGAIN, but you’ll never know that. Oh, and PS, I’ll supply the Cialis!”

                ******Jesus Christ you wrote just what I’d have written for mine. Shit, you kinda freaked me out.*****

          • This would be an awesome Friday challenge…write true dating ‘profiles’ for out cheaters. You know, who they really are and what they are looking for. Hahaha

            • He makes $75,000 a month! Yup, that is 5 digits!

              $15 shots at a fancy bar in the financial district – often $300 a Day!!!!! I found out in discovery during our divorce when he was trying to impute 550,000 a year in income to me and offering me max of $300 dollars a month in CS and alimony. Went to trial and judge gave him the “business!” Booyah dickface

          • I DID see my cheater on a dating site. He didn’t write a profile, so I screen shot his photos and wrote a profile for him to send to my friends… and he’s still with AP… wonder how that’s working out for her… 🙂

      • MightyChris, you are absolutely correct. Cheaters LOVE having the faithful, useful spouse caring for their every need while they are out playing the field. Those who don’t mind blowing up the marriage are in the minority. But of that minority, a whole lot of them would love to set up the AP in their chump’s old job and continue on as before. Some even try for a straight swap, with their chump now on the side. Why? Because it’s all about them, all the time.

        • Mine tried that about a month or so after the divorce was final and a few weeks after he married scmoopie.. Wanted to know if I could get past everything because he felt like he could “forgive me” I apparently was supposed to forget the abuse, lying and gaslighting, the fact that he took my money to bring her to our city oh and that he was married! Lol that was the most satisfying no ever!

          • HE could forgive YOU?!?

            I hope you told him to shove it where the sun doesn’t shine!

      • Absolutely right about this. They just want the status quo and the chump should be okay with that. There were 2 points my ex wife raised during MC sessions. First was that we should live together, raise the children together but live separate lives! The MC was floored at this one. He just sat there stunned and said he had no idea where to even start explaining how bad an idea that was. The second point was when she told the MC there was only a 5% chance she wanted to stay married to me (cue the pick me dance music?). Seriously, a 5% chance and I was supposed to jump at that? Oh and don’t forget that she was still seeing the AP during this whole time after saying she broke it off.

        In all fairness, I found Chump Lady while we were in MC and it certainly was a game changer for me. I started to see exactly what I was dealing with. I used the MC sessions to buy time in order to get everything in order. Ex was furious when I filed without saying a word in MC session the day before.

      • I have never heard anyone say it better. So many of us can’t even conceive of such a thing going into this!

        I had the wonderful closure of having the new chump come up my driveway to compare notes with me. My cheater hooked up with her 14 days after quitting a 5.5 years relationship with me! She owns a house and he had already been with her to a lawyer (in the guise of helping her) to get an idea of her financial situation! (The house is worth at least 600 K.)

        Fortunately, she had some great friends who were looking out for her. They found his online dating profile (she was in the picture – WTF??) They then set him up with a fictional date and then filmed the entire meeting!

        Trust that they suck! (They are also the wierdest kind of stupid! I mean, who posts an online dating pic with their current girlfriend??!?!?)

      • Love this, Mighty Chris – you’ve got their number, sir. They thrive on the tension and don’t want to commit to anyone beyond their desired state: cake & kibbles.

  • My ex wouldn’t read this because the writing is lucid, erudite, expects people to take responsibility for their actions, and doesn’t address him with the words “my king”.

    • Kimhopes – “my king” made me laugh~ one of the favorite sayings of the douchebag was “If I were king..”

      • My husband’s internet scam artist addressed him as “my king” and he addresssed her as “my queen”. I am forever grateful for being able to have read how he discarded me in his own words.

    • I refer to X as a hemorrhoid; because assholes actually work and serve a purpose. He on the other hand, is designed to irritate and cause pain.

      • I refer to my ex and his AP as “the hemorrhoid and the whore”. For the same reason. He is an irritant and causes relentless pain and she is just a whore. No other explanation is so very very fitting.

  • CL left out another probable cheater reaction to this site: “It’s just a bunch of angry, bitter ‘hoilier than thou’s ‘ who love to marinate in their own misery, refuse to accept their own roles in the failure of their marriages, and refuse to ‘just move on’ for the sake of their children.”

    • Oh sure, that’s the dominant narrative for cheaters and the unicorns who hope to reconcile with them. Today’s post was for all the stalking ones who harass their chump and apparently just can’t stay away from this place.

      Perhaps our comments should be along the lines of “Get a life you angry, bitter, holier than thous!”

      • I guess that’s what I was getting at — stalking cheaters would dismiss your note and the expected comments from CN as everything I noted, then use it as evidence against us as supposed proof that we’re the troubled, unbalanced ones.

        • But it made my day. That’s all that matters. I caught my cheater asshat reading “no more mr nice guy”. I read it too and he didn’t know it. It was comical. Fucker

          • my cheater gave me “Wild at Heart” to read which was a Christian man explaining his angst and excuse his assholish behaviors towards his wife. I had no idea that the shit stew I was in was SO much worse than anything that book described.

          • “No more mr nice guy” is a cheater victim’s glory read. Women are not even allowed to comment on the site, and it is $0.99 used on Amazon – about $0.98 overpriced.

            I found my cheater building his case with this book. Apparently I was a RBW “really bad woman”, and he was to go find a “really good woman”, RGW.

            It teaches men to be more selfish – put themselves first, and some RGW will just follow along their orders….

            what a pathetic load. About that time I was when XH started using labels to describe me, MUCH to the laughter of people who were our friends and knew us well. Little did I know he was actually internalizing his “male victimhood”.

            • Ah yes, the male victim hood slant…

              No More Mr Nice Guy

              Unfortunately read it multiple times during RIC therapy.

              Take away:

              -Mommy issues aka I never grow up…will you be my mommy? I need, I need…whaaaaaaa.

              -Emasculated argument aka I am an empty life-sucking soul and will blame my faithful, loving and strong wife. You know I don’t take responsibility for the woes in my life.

              -Unhappy sex lives aka the porn and prostitutes are affecting my abilities in bed. I’ll blame my wife and say I’m in a sexless marriage.

              -Rotting in middle management aka I spend so much time watching porn and hook ups I can’t understand why I don’t get a promotion. A young prostitute on my arm and new, young friends will convince everyone at work of my awesomeness. The wife and our old friends bore me.

              -Women should be icing on your cake in life (not kidding) aka women are objects to enjoy; like cake. I deserve that.

              -Take the lead in your relationship aka make your own rules and damn it make those around you obey.

              Just another cheater narcpath justification read like Esther Perel; garbage.

        • First sign of healing is that you no longer give a tinker’s dam what your cheater thinks of you. Second stage is that you no longer care what he or she says/lies about you to others (second step is harder, I admit).

          • I’m there! Whoot whoot!
            Fuck him and anyone who listens to him. I’m so busy building my wonderful Life 2.0 I don’t have time to care.

          • First Step ✔️

            That second step is really hard for me! I have daily conversations with myself about how it doesn’t matter how his new friends and AP view me. Their view of me is based on lies that I cannot control. Plus all of them knew I have cancer and still got involved with him, which means they suck and are people I wouldn’t want to know anyway.

            I tell myself all of that. Some days it helps, some days it doesn’t.

        • What a twisted way to read those books! Both of them are written for men who could use a big dose of self-respect. They’re far more appropriate for chumps than for cheaters. I suppose from what I’ve read on this site, nothing should surprise me.

          • Traveling, I know the ‘No More Mister Nice Guy’ book, and it is directed at men who need self-respect and to learn assertiveness.

            They’re certainly not in the “Esther Perel” category of crap.

            But let’s face it, assholes can use ANYTHING to justify their assholery. Instead of taking responsibility for their behaviours and learning to do better, they will use the book to shift responsibility onto others, again and again.

            • Interestingly, my cheating wife had just finished reading ‘Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office’, which is directed at women who need self-respect and to learn assertiveness in the workplace.

              Have we found the female counterpart?!

  • Exactly! There was a time when I might have pushed it in cheaters face because I thought I could ” make” him understand. Now, with time and NC, I know that he can’t ever understand. If he could, he wouldn’t have done the things he did. To him I was nothing more than financial stability and kibbles. He may be shiny to the new source but I trust that he hasn’t had a personality transplant. He is who he is – P.O.S!

    • You got it, when you find yourself explaining basic level emotional stuff to these idiots you have nothing to work with.
      Que blank stare!

      • My Asshole Cheater hates to feel alone. Last week he sent an email to MY adult daughter in the UK to ask her for my new email address. Of course he had my email address and if not, he could have texted me. It was about a renewal of the satellite radio for my car. So daughter forward the email to me and didn’t reply. I sent him a terse ‘I don’t want the satellite radio’.
        He was hoping daughter would respond and he could weedle his way back into the family, who knows maybe a visit to the UK with Schmoopie. The idiot doesn’t realize that he hurt her as much as he hurt me. DD adored him, he’d been her Step father for 40 years! She is a smart women and knows about betrayal (as she experienced it first hand, but idiot forgot about that) and wants nothing to do with Asshole Cheater. These guys just don’t get it you blow up the family and ‘you blew up your family’ no going back!

      • Yes the blank stare! Two of you mentioning that now. Probably something most or all of us here have seen. The Blank Stare! I’d like to take that one a little further and share that looking back on 23 years together, I realize I’ve seen that Blank Stare throughout. My Cheater Ex was NEVER capable of connecting with my feelings. Oh, the time lost! That’s what kills me now. And if I ever do meet someone who actually gives a fuck about my feelings, I’m not sure I’ll know what to do with that.

        • Struggling: ^ this!!
          My stbx has the coldest shark-eyes blank stare! Chilling!
          A week before dday3, I was sobbing 15 inches away from him about our adult son moving away, and trying to drive my vehicle. He: blank stare of death. Didn’t even pat my hand or acknowledge my audible sobs. Later: “You didn’t tell me you needed me.”
          All outta 2x4s. Not worth the calories burned to swing one at this point.
          Thanks, CL, for a fun column & calling out the spatkleturds! I’m trying to be careful to keep my creep outta here. Safe space is sacred.

          • I think most of us have seen the blank stare while trying to explain our pain, or sobbing our guts out. Not too long ago I read an article that described “the stare” as a self-protective mechanism. They turn off their emotions so as not to feel the consequences of their actions. For cheaters it’s easy to do because their emotions aren’t that deep anyway. They tell themselves we’re just being overly-dramatic and trying to manipulate them. They’re good at faking emotions to get what they want, until they don’t want anything from us anymore.

            • Or just walking out of the room or away from me while I’m talking….How dismissive and rude

        • Mine wouldn’t even look at me when he gave me the blank stare. He would turn his chair about 110 degrees away from me and stare out the window.

          But Lyndaloo, you have another great point hidden in your comment. For those of us who have lived with this person for 20 – 30+ years, especially those of us with poor social networks (no kids, no close family) it’s hard for us to reconnect after our primary person has been so withdrawn.

    • Oh they are capable of understanding how much damage they have caused. They just don’t CARE to. It would take the focus off of their “fantabulousness” and what’s the point in that?

      • Or, as mentioned in a comment above, they actually derive pleasure from our suffering. That is a super hard thing for me to face, but in my case, I think it is true. That kind of power over someone is intoxicating. I must still worship my cheater, because I’m so bereft and broken, right? Wrong. Fucker.

      • Spackley – I agree they know the damage they have caused, but they just don’t care. They don’t want us anymore, so they really couldn’t care less what happens to us. They are busy chasing after their penis’ concerns to care about us. And if we do suffer, we are an inconvenience to them. That’s why when we cry to them, they just don’t want to deal with us, and probably can’t wait for it to be over, so they could attend to their matters. We’ve just become a massive burden they can’t be bothered with.

        • This.
          My lying exes even made up stories (‘This divorce/break up hurts me, too,’ and ‘I don’t know if I’ll ever find anyone else (while dating someone other than me)’ to get me (and others) to feel sorry for THEM (poor timid forest creatures). F–ked up on so many levels! Still hurts to think that my life with them (all those years) was entirely or mostly a lie. Here I was thinking that I had ‘real’ relationships and my partners considered their relationship with me a second-rate Happy Meal to tide them over until the ‘real deal’ came along. And to add insult to injury, my exes say things like, ‘Now the divorce is over, we can be friends,’ or in response to me stating that I wonder what was real after discovering my boyfriend was lying and I was upset about being disrespected, ‘That’s not fair. I DO care.’ Since when is lying, invalidating, and disrespecting someone ‘caring’ or even worse ‘loving?’ These humans give love a bad name.

        • This is true. I remember ex telling me after D- day while doing the pick me dance, “I just want you to move on!” And, “I’ll be ok when you’re ok.” Wtf? So did move on.
          He sure didn’t like that. That’s when he tried to make me, the wife, the OW, (because he had been living w A.P. for 2 years, while we were still married, and I had finally dumped the guy I ‘moved on’ with. Wanted to be alone after that, and x cheater resented me for divorcing him and not giving him yet another chance, you know, even though he was and is still with her.) Crazyiness. Glad I got some distance from that fucked up situ.

    • Yes it is painful to realize that he will never understand how much he has/is still hurting me because he just doesn’t care. He acts like he cares a little bit, but it is only because my pain is inconvenient for him. It’s not like he is going to stop hurting me to make my pain go away. He just wants me to move on already so he doesn’t have to look like a schmuck to all of the people in his life who do care about me. If I went out and found a boyfriend he would be thrilled and that hurts most of all. He wouldn’t even have the decency to be jealous.

      • My exes aren’t a bit jealous either. My ex-husband was eager for me to marry my now ex-boyfriend, not because he wanted me to be happy (with someone who didn’t abuse me) but because my re-marriage would have lowered his monthly spousal support payment amount. No chance of that now as both liars are gone (emontionslly were never here).

  • I think one of the conditions of being close to Meh, is realising they will never understand anything and we no longer care about that.

    • Getting there slowly. Does giving up in futility half way through a circle argument count. Just don’t have the energy.

      • Yes, LadyB…ypur mighty is emerging! What exactly have I been gogting FOR? The opportunity to audition for the part I thought I had already earned? Nah.
        They suck.
        Trust they suck.
        Fuck ’em.

        • “The opportunity to audition for the part I thought I already had earned.”

          What a perfect analogy.

          • So good!!! “The opportunity to audition for the part I thought I already had earned…”

  • Hahahahaha .. it hadn’t dawned on me that STBX might stalk me here. But, it wouldn’t surprise me. If I’ve learned nothing else — I’ve certainly learned that if something is shady and immoral, he’s capable of doing it.

    If he is reading here, my response to him would be: I have ZERO fucks to give.

    My entire focus is now on me and my girls. And, man, life is so much more peaceful now. 🙂

    • Zero fucks to give is the proper attitude.

      To anyone being stalked here I’d say, change your profile name and keep your safe space. Don’t let the fuckwits win. (Or think they’re winning.)

      • I might be being stalked here and that is why I don’t post anymore, just lurk. I tried to change my username but was unable to. Exactly how do I do that?

        • I’m sorry — I’m not sure. I would recommend going to the forums and asking.

          Good luck!

          • i discovered (unintentionally), that you can change your screen name here, by using a different email.

            there are probably other ways, but that’s what i did.

        • Syringa: good to see you back (sadly, as I know you had a second cheater). You don’t really have anything to worry about from cheater #1, do you? Surely he’s too busy with his fab new life (and drinking his way into Korsakoff’s disease) for him to track you here?

  • Mine saw me reading CL when in reconciliation, it was brief. I read something aloud to him which was quite insightful as all CL is. He said it was full of ‘bitter women’ nuff said, prize narc he is.

    • Well i’m a bitter man, so there goes his theory 😉

      Just joking, i’m not bitter!

    • My cheater also read CL for awhile (and he clearly knew my moniker), called CL herself “bitter” and cautioned me against revealing too much that could cost him his job and then I wouldn’t get as much child support. Newsflash, fucker, it was your screwing students that could get you fired, not the fact that I posted about it in an anonymous forum.

      • DUH!!!!!!!!

        Don’t take no PhD to figure that one out. Nothing would make me happier…….

    • Oh! That must have been auto mistake! I’m sure it was supposed to be “better” as in better off, better character, better morals, better find a kick-ass attorney.

  • You go girl! My stbx wouldn’t try to find me on here, that would take too much time away from thinking about himself! Plus, he tells me how he’s not like the other cheaters and you all don’t know him! ????

    • Oh, we know him all right. They’re all the same. That’s the message here that would really drive them crazy if they knew. No special, unique, exceptional cheaters here, just a bunch of carbon copy, seen it a million times, straight from the cheater playbook, ORDINARY cheaters. Every Chump’s story of mightiest is extraordinary. Cheaters though? Yawn ????

      • It’s official, I do love ya, Beth! Perfect! Boring, everyday, run-of-the-mill cheaters. Clichés, each and every one. They are the only ones that detect the sparkles once we see thrm for what they are.

    • Sounds like mine. He whined in his court papers that I was continuing to defame him. Uh, ain’t defamation of its the truth asshole.

      Part of the discovery process was listing all websites/blogs visited. So, mine or his whore Steve probably stalking here. Don’t care. Let them think I’m a bitter bunny. I have peace in my life for the first time in almost 30 years.

      • Sounds like mine. He whined in his court papers that I was continuing to defame him. Uh, ain’t defamation of its the truth asshole.

        Part of the discovery process was listing all websites/blogs visited. So, mine or his whore Steve probably stalking here. Don’t care. Let them think I’m a bitter bunny. I have peace in my life for the first time in almost 30 years.

      • Did you actually disclose the blogs you visited? If so, how honest (which isn’t sarcastic, just saying). I put my ex-husband’s whore on the homewrecker site. I denied everything. I watched enough CSI and such to know that there was no way a judge would order a DNA blueprint of my computer. I wasn’t giving my husband an inch, and in the end I didn’t. Betrayal can make a beast out of a previously gentle woman that’s for sure.

        • Oh, I was honest, cause it was a court document and that’s who I am-honest. He put down his adult friend finder (sans requested login/password), as a just flirting website. How stupid can you actually be?

          So, if he is stalking me here, let the teeny, tiny little pecker have at it. I’m honest about what I did to reconcile to save my marriage. I’m honest in how I felt/feel. I’m a stronger woman than I ever gave myself credit for and I survived him and his fake polyamory bullshit. I survived the gaslighting, blameshifting and mental numbing jumbo torture.

          Him and his tru luv are, honestly, trashy people without a moral compass. Truth!!!!

        • Your comment reminds me of a meme sent by a friend which read something like “they broke my wings but they forgot I had claws”.

          • Love that! And my wings have healed, thank you very much! Mine aren’t claws so much as talons…..long, sharp and poised!

        • Yep you got that right! Decent, honest, gentle women can turn into a beast, once they had enough! I will!

      • Somebody gave his girlfriend the heads up that he was a serial cheater. He messaged me all pissed that I had told people he had cheated. He said ‘I’ve said I’m sorry! What more do you want!!!’

    • Mine wouldn’t take the time to either. He can’t even be bothered to read court papers let alone start searching for things to read.

  • “chump pain is intoxicating (speaking of furtive boners)”…


    That smirk on his fat face when I hugged the OW – before I knew she was the OW and not just his law partner – still makes me want to vomit.

    He threw everything he could at me during the divorce. Would have loved him to try CL ????. My lawyers would have had a field day. They have copies of CL’s book to distribute to new chumps.

    Thank goodness it’s so far behind me now and THAT is what I wish for every member of CN!

    • I gave one of my copies to my therapist, and he gives it to his new chumps in therapy now.

      We are changing the view on cheaters and that it’s not a two sided act in most cases.

      • I wish I had bought a copy to give to my therapist. I haven’t needed him in months now, but on my last visit (March, maybe?) he told me how proud he was of me for coming as far as I had in only a few sessions. I JUST happened to have my CL book with me that day and shared it with him. I told him that therapy with him & this book were my saving grace. 🙂

    • I know that feeling, as if the betrayal isn’t bad enough, then you realize how many times he arranged it, so that you and Schmoopie would interact. Do they think that once the cat is out of the bag you won’t remember all those chance meetings with Schmoopie ? God, they are sick assholes all of them!

      • What makes you think they care what you remember?

        Don’t ever forget that they don’t.

        • I don’t think Asshole or Schmoopie give a damn about what I think I was Pointing out the fucking sickness of the assholes, and believe me after 40 fucking wasted years, you can trust I won’t forget!

    • Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. From what I can read, though, a strong argument can be made that our participation on CL is akin to participation in Alcoholics Anonymous, and PROTECTED the same way what we disclose in therapy is.

      Do not under any circumstances admit to your X or anyone connected with court that you post here, nor what your moniker is, if there is any chance they will try to use it against you in settlement or custody. (Per my comment above, yes, my X knew of my participation on CL, but it would have hurt him more to use it in court, as I uncovered more affairs than his sexual harassment officer knew about, and it would have cost him his job to make those details public.)

      • tempest

        God I WISH my husband would come here and read. He won’t, that’s for sure. But if he did, it would be the first time in years he’d “hear” me.

  • Blank stare! I’m glad to be reminded I’m not the only one who gets this. Used to get stony silence during any disagreements, even before i knew about the affairs (recently found out about 2 other “mistakes”), now its blank stare when i get angry or show emotion or try to talk about anything that isn’t superficial. Anyway working on getting to meh.

    • No, you are definitely not alone. Part of the disordered narc playbook. No emotion at all … just the dead-eye stare, usually gazing off at the television or some other inanimate object until the Chump, in utter frustration and defeat, gave up trying to have a discussion.

      Granted, if I said something he particularly didn’t like, my STBX would then rage … and then DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender).

      Nothing productive. Ever.

      • Yup. And this was the communication pattern long before discovery of the affair. No true emotional investment, no productive communication (so that any disagreement felt unresolved and created lingering resentments), no sense that my concerns/feelings were ever truly “heard” or understood. He would sometimes agree to do something (something I thought was so basic and couldn’t believe I had to spell out for him), but then rarely followed-through. I see now it’s because he either un-interested in or incapable of any true connection, empathy, or emotional work.

        • Mine stared right at me when I confronted him about the affair – after I had my proof and lawyer, CPS & therapist already on my personal payroll. I was awesome – I stared right back, never blinked – i kind of anticipated it, since, you know, Dday#. It may have been long ago, but a woman remembers some special things.
          God save us from that dead-eye stare! If you see it, run for your life!

    • Mine just talks / rants non sense over the top of me. Shuts it down and hijacks it to steer it to his favourite topic, himself. I have about 20 seconds before I’m steam rolled.
      My Mum says I won’t know myself when I meet a man who actually gives a damn. Can’t wait!

    • Exactly the same with me. Constantly staring at TV or computer screen to avoid any real connection. Stonewalled any serious conversation, then blamed me for not knowing how he felt.

  • Mine would find this site amusing, he’d laugh, spew sexist remarks, ridicule, we would be great material for him the next time he had an audience. He’d be in tears, laughing so hard at the stories of heartache and betrayal.
    Theres not a doubt in my mind he’s a sociopath.

    How different he is when talking with a group of women he’s just met or wives of people he works with. So empathetic and quick to judge these horrid bastards who would dare cheat on their wives.
    Shaking his head in utter disgust and showing so much sympathy for the Chump.

    • He’s relentless on searching for information to humiliate me or use in the court room as evidence that he was being victimized or abused. Very cunning and evil.

  • My ex-husband would never read any of my blogs while we were a family. I kept blogs for years. As soon as I threw him out for cheating suddenly he and his whore was camped out at my family blog. Print out after print out was sent to his attorney then mine. His family were all crying about how I was spreading half-truths. Which I find funny now. They couldn’t say what I was saying were lies, but half-truths and names (and locations) were never mentioned.. LOL! I had to close shop and move on because between him and his whore they stayed on 24//7. Statcounter told me this. I didn’t want to write for them. It was no longer for me knowing they were there all the time. I still don’t understand it. If they were so happy with destroying a family in the name of soulmates then why bother me.

    • Unflown, I think that a big part of their sordid relationship is the intrigue of sneaking around and discussing the other spouses and how awful their pitiful little lives are while married to their chumps. Once the chump exits, then what do they really have in common? So they try to keep the triangle going, that’s why NC is so effective. They hate you don’t care and they have no Kibbles! A relationship built on deceit is just that !

        • That’s because they are mentally just ageing teens, they love the teenage drama! I remember when my asshole used to actually what 90210! Christ where was my head!

  • Cheaters who stalk their exes are special brand of horrible. They’ve moved on to their new life with a giant smile on their face, but want to make sure the person they destroyed is truly and utterly crushed and annihilated and all the value has been extracted.

    Nothing like ripping someone’s heart to shreds then standing over the bloody heart, gloating and reveling in the pain you caused.

    Dear douche, nothing to see here. What, did you get bored with the lovebombing of your new victim? Need a break from pretending to be a real human person with a soul? The Charm Channel isn’t as fun as the Rage channel, is it?

  • Your relationship is unsalvagable when you find yourself explaining to your partner basic emotional principles like compassion, consideration, empathy, and affection. I remember during false reconciliation having a discussion with my cheating ex-wife in which I tried to **persuade** her that cheating is a hurtful behavior that hurt me and that I wanted the hurt to end. How very many things are wrong with that one discussion?

    As you may guess, I was not persuasive, and received only the dead fish-eye stare in response. If someone can hurt you in this way, they almost certainly lack the ability to stop hurting you in this way.

    • My cheater wife still says she “wants reconciliation” and we should go back to couples counseling (after she lied through 3 months of it). You can’t want reconciliation if you are trying to get away with stuff. I finally told mine that her actions were a form of abuse that put my physical, mental, and emotional health in danger and we MUST get a divorce.

    • Same. I’ve given up totally on trying to explain remedial integrity to anyone except my daughter.

    • Ugh yes the trying to explain! I remember telling my ex (after DDay, before he moved out) that he was rubbing my face in it. He said, in all seriousness, “How am I rubbing your face in it?” WTF is wrong with you? Um, let’s see, you don’t come home three nights a week, you constantly text her right in front of me, you constantly go outside to “clean the pool filter” so you can call her. We had the cleanest pool filter in the state, lol! Yes indeed, you have an unfixable problem when you have to explain to your partner that the sky is blue or that one plus one equals two.

      • Now that’s a Friday post for sure: how clean is your pool filter? Pardon me while I step outside to text AP I mean refill the birdfeeder. A list of false pretenses would be hilarious and pathetic by turns.

        • Mine suddenly had to take two hour trips to go buy some sort of tool at the local hardware store; how many hammers does one guy need????

          • Soldiering On,

            Just one-a ball peen to hit him in the head !

            (half kidding)

      • Shortly before I left him, we were discussing the logistics of the D. Cocksocket called/texted a million times. Would not stop, bc she wasnt getting an answer. Finally said to JAMF, may as well call her now, she’s not stopping. Dead eyes and the kicked puppy face, huh, what’s the problem? Had to explain to him she is the reason I’m divorcing you. He just couldn’t make the connection.

        • Yep. Still don’t know if that seeming inability to understand the hurt she was causing was genuine or practiced. And frankly, don’t know–as between someone who cannot imagine another’s pain, and someone who can imagine it but truly doesn’t care–which one of those would be a scarier prospect. Both should be deal killers for anyone.

          • That’s my thing, Nomar. When his life fell apart after the unavailable Dream Princess cut off contact, and several other times during the whole debacle, I was incredulous to watch his huge emotional drama and see him apparently not realising this was because he was in love with her. I still don’t know if he was that emotionally unintelligent or if he was perfectly aware all the time of his feelings, either way, red flags a go-go. he says he didn’t realise he loved her ‘that way’ until he left me – hmmm…

    • Early spackled red flag= bridesmaid who was my best friend since we were 12, gave us six complete settings of our flatware as a wedding gift- extremely generous gift. Stbx made a flippant comment about it being a boring gift in her presence. I was mortified! I felt the need to explain to him several times how hurtful and inappropriate his comment was because, DUH, he is a narc and his insensitivity is lost on him. He didn’t care.

      • Feelingit,
        The sickening, gut-wrenching feeling when they say something so totally inappropriate, hurtful to another innocent person.
        Your post gave me “that feeling” all over again. And you or I would do just anything we could do try to make him not sound as bad, not hurt the other person so bad, anything at all we could do to smooth over a very hurtful embarrassing moment.
        I am so happy YOU are away from this now.
        You never deserved this.
        It never was you, always it was on him.

        Even more sad when it involved one of our children.
        My daughters, as your five children, are exceptional, very special individuals!
        I can never forgive him when it involves the kids! And it has and it does.
        They will always have one sane present loving parent, you and I!! ????

        ( trust that they suck)

        ((((Manyhugsto you Feeelingit)))

    • Nomar, one day I asked abusive cheater if we could agree upon a baseline level of decency that he would adhere to so that even if he was angry, he wouldn’t sink to abusive levels of behavior. He calmly refused.

      THAT should have been enough for me, but I still didn’t leave. I have a literal pile of printed-out copies of emails I sent him asking him to not be cruel.

      Why I though there was hope after that is beyond me.

      • Ah, yes. Negotiating decency. Like it’s a punishment that must be forced upon them. Who doesn’t want decency for the person they supposedly love the most in the world?

    • Yes, once you find yourself having to make a case for your own humanity, there is really nothing to work with. I am trying to be gentle with myself for not realizing this sooner.

      • I wish wish wish I had left him when my daughter caught him watching porn on the computer. I won’t even go into that mess, but I think it goes back to the frog in the slowly heating up pot of water…little by little….
        I trust that HE sucks. He has sucked for a long time. In a lot of ways. And ever so rarely in the one way that was good.

    • Before I filed, when my cheater had been kicked out of the house but was half-heartedly trying to win his way back, I was sobbing about the extra blow to my self-esteem that he had had an affair partner 22 years younger than me. He coldly looked at me and said, “It could have been more threatening, it could have been with someone 10 years younger.”

      That was my first glimpse into his total lack of empathy (and guess how old his affair partner at that time was, the one I didn’t yet know about? Yup, 10 years younger than me.)

      • My cheater wife cheated with a man (kid) 18 years younger than me (I’m 42, cheater wife is 46). It’s another layer to the self esteem damage created when a spouse cheats. I wish I had excellent advice for you, but I don’t, I’m still trying to deal with it all. I will say I began compiling a list of famous men who were cheated upon- it helps to think that even rich, famous, handsome people get cheated on also. I try to remember it wasn’t me that caused or deserved to be cheated on- it’s the spouses’ poor character. Has nothing to do with you. They suck- you don’t. Do things to make yourself happy. Gain strength and rebuild.

        • There’s a George Clooney quote that I first saw on here that helped me completely banish the thought that it was to do with me not being attractive enough.

          “I’ve been ditched and left for someone; all those things. And it was sometimes a surprise, and sometimes you saw it coming. The most painful was when I kept trying to get (one woman) back. But we all make dumb mistakes.”

          This is usually more open than i’m fully comfortable being, but I’m pretty sure I suffered from some degree of body dysmorphia in my teens/early twenties, as a result of constant bullying about my looks when I was younger. I remember in my 20s being accused of being vain at one point for constantly looking in the mirror. If only they knew. One of the many things I find really hard is that my wife knew all of this, she knew the demons I’d had to fight within myself, and she … just…. didn’t care what it’d do to me.

          But I had a choice to make; let it set me back into those old insecurities, or draw on my own strength and choose to ignore that self doubt. I honestly believe that there’s a large degree of choice in how much we let things like this affect us, & I chose to shut those voices in my head down.

    • Lack of empathy continued . . .

      I lost almost 15 pounds due to the stress of KK’s antics. When I told her this, her reply was: “Well, that makes sense to me. I mean, I eat when I’m stressed, so I gain weight. You stop eating when you’re stressed, so you lose weight.”

      I walked away so dumbfounded, I couldn’t even bother to continue the conversation.

      • I’m assuming she didn’t feel the need to eat and gain weight with all stress of guilt over what she put you through UXworld. From what we know from CN that makes sense to us too. They’re all soulless.

    • nomar, my ex was confused and asked his counselor why he felt bad when he saw me or the kids crying after he announced his intention to leave and break up our family. It was like he didn’t comprehend what it was like to feel compassion. So strange!

      • Yes, very strange. Especially after decades of seeming to know (if not truly feel) the appropriate emotional responses to various situations. Some of it was spackling on my part, no doubt. But I think sociopathy, like most mental illnesses, often progresses with age. And many of these folks in mid-life reach a tipping point where they lose the ability even to fake it anymore.

  • I must admit I have had moments when I was tempted to email my cheater wife a link to one of these CL articles or a sentence out of the CL book. But then I realized I would just be feeding her centrality ego and keep the emotional manipulation train running. I want to stop the train and get the fuck off and find someone better.

    • Zell, you are mighty, don’t look back! You deserve so much better just keep your resolve.

  • Don’t feel my wife would ever come here. As stated earlier, that would require effort on her part, and she knows it doesn’t portray her kind in a positive light, so why bother.

    I have texted many quotes from CN to her, and I am sure they go unread and are deleted immediately.
    Cheaters only like to know how great, hot, desirable, fabulous, etc. they are, NOT how they are evil, immoral, lying pukes.

    • That is what I am banking on: a too much effort to read all that drivel sort of attitude.

      • They won’t read it because it’s the truth. And they can’t handle the truth.

    • I tried sending my whorehopper articles and even a few videos in the beginning…he refused to look at any of it because ” that stuff is all meant to make me feel bad ” “your just trying to shame me for the things I did” no insight at all…I only sent him stuff telling him how to relate to me and the kids and how to work on making things right..he clearly does not want to do anything…and it is sad that I saw he was incapable of empathy and thought I could somehow teach him to be a normal human being… In Bible study this weekend we talked about hope and how it gives us faith that things will get better if we just trust in God..I said hope can be a bad thing as long should we hold onto hope before finally figuring out maybe hope for a better day just ain’t going to happen? Is there a time limit on hope or do you just keep hanging on till they lower you in the grave?! When do you decide maybe God is hoping too.. hoping he has thrown enough bricks at your head to finally get you to go in the opposite direction…I think back to all of the obstacles I climbed over to be with this loser and see now god did everything but strike me with lightning to get me away from him but I ignored it all because I just couldn’t see things from anyone’s perspective but mine…I truly thought this scumbag hung the moon…I placed him above all else, god included…I don’t know where I am going with this except I feel like I was being punished for placing my husband on a thrown that belongs only to God..I had to learn that so I will never allow things of this world to cause me to lose sight of the real prize…an eternity walking with the only man who will ever truly love me, accept me and never let me just sucks I won’t get to be with him until I die..I just hope he isn’t bullshitting me too…that’s just how distrustful I am now..sad

      • Or, could you consider that God loves you SO MUCH that he removed this person from your life who was causing you harm?

      • Nobody2U, my faith was tested too, but now I see that we never actually prayed together during the most difficult time. I think he couldn’t face his God with me beside him. God is faithful, but the best thing I’ve learned is that God has no plan for my life; His plan is to help me through my life, whatever happens. When people tell me this is God’s plan, I disagree. He would never want me and my kids to go through this; but he will always be with us whatever the world and other people throw at us. Love to you xxx

        • Nobody 2u my heart goes out to you and I’m in same place as far as mistrusting in the future is concerned.

          I’m not a religious person and don’t go to church but do believe in God. I think strong spiritual beliefs with the emphasis on loving others and forgiveness can hold us back when dealing with these sociopaths and taking a true Chump Lady stance. My own belief is that God sends such people into our lives to teach us the value of loving and respecting ourselves. I thought I did love and value myself but in the true light of day see that I made decisions that didn’t reflect that. Probably stems from a painful childhood with BPD mother, who had been institutionalised at the age of 11, and an emotionally distant father. All messes with your head and sense of self worth I guess.

          Much love and healing to you.

  • CN, please be cautious because I can tell you firsthand that cheaters will indeed stalk places like this website.

    My cheating ex-wifecicle did, and had her pseudo-attorney print reams and reams of paper supposedly with evidence of my badmouthing her online. It resulted in me having my username changed and my comment history here purged. I’ve no idea of they had any proof within those stacks of paper, and I highly doubt it, but it’s best not to even go there if possible.

    Cheaters are idiots. They’ll never understand if sent here, and lack the gumption for the introspection required for them to improve their characters.

  • In my early wreakonciliation phase I used a pseudonym here and on the Sisterhood of Support site, less to protect me than to protect my pseudounicorn from people thinking badly of him. Somewhere along the line that persona I created started to be about me, not him and the ability to say whatever I wanted or needed to say without repercussions became empowering. Now that I’m one of the lucky ones – I’m divorced with adult children and am totally NC with my ex, I switched to my real name and photo. It’s important to me, as part of my healing, to be very open about my story and my truth. It’s also very easy since there’s nothing my ex can do other than bring an action for libel or slander, in which case I say “Bring it.” I kept everything he did a secret from everyone in my life for more than two years and it damn near killed me. Now I figure if he wasn’t ashamed to do it, I won’t be ashamed to talk about it.

    The only thing I miss about being anonymous here is the thought of all the stalking cheaters and OWs reading my derogatory comments and wondering if I’m *their* chump talking about their tiny dick. ????????????

    • It’s free-ing isn’t it? The ones who will think you are *their* chump is going to think it no matter what. My ex-husband printed out some woman’s blog talking about not working to collect alimony and gave it to his attorney, who gave it to my attorney. Not only was I not that woman, I had never heard of or read that blog. It’s sort of funny to think that he and his whore were/are camped out at some woman’s blog that has nothing to do with me. Not funny for the blog writer but funny that they are on the wrong path completely. I relish the day some cheater comes to my blog. I will flame him with the heat of 1000 suns for what he did to his Chump. It’s the least I can do.

      • When that heat of 1000 suns day comes, be sure you post it here for us all to enjoy. ????

    • BETH,
      I thought a lot of you before, but now I think “The World” of you!
      Your posts always make so much sense, plus often they make me smile, (“tiny dick”)!
      Your picture is lovely. You have a beautiful smile!
      Your eyes are the opposite of a cheater’s and that, would be they are warm, expressive.
      We Chumps often talk about the mean stare blank less look of a cheater’s eyes!
      I swear we could line men, and women up, take a quick look in their eyes and point them to the appropriate line of cheater, non cheater! That could be a test in itself.
      Oh, but wait, when they are with schmoopie their expression changes, so that is not a fool proof test!????

      Your post is empowering.
      YOU are Mighty!

      • Wow, thank you Peacekeeper! I’m blushing. ☺️ You are very kind and very mighty yourself.

  • “Yours fuck-off-ishly” ????????

    Love it. Am going to use that! ????????

  • Love it CL, as always you are direct, pithy and “spot on”. Gave me my morning chuckle although to a cheater there would be nothing humorous about this!
    I would never tell my cheater-x about this website, it is my private sanctuary and has been for many months now. I never miss a day of reading it. However, he and some family members may be suspecting I am getting help or knowledge from somewhere as I notice myself I am changing.
    My language is different. I have learned so many new words on this site! Many I have had to look up, even at 63 I am continually surprised and sometimes shocked at the new things I have learned here. I had no idea!!! Quite the education I am getting! Some of the new words find their way into my daily conversation ( some new words will NEVER be repeated out loud haha). I catch myself talking about kibbles, Narc tendencies, “cake eating”, codependent,

    So for all you stalkers out there looking for evidence to use against your chumped wife or husband……maybe if you read enough here some small understanding might filter through your sad sausage, twisted, dark,and evil little brains and one day you might start to “get it”and see what chaos you have created. I seriously doubt it though, most of you are too totally wrapped up in the “me and only me” cycle to ever be able to absorb new information. Which is exactly why reconciliation will never work in the majority of cases. Chumps are able to learn and change, Cheater brains are not capable of adaptation or change ( although some are certainly good at faking it, but they cannot maintain it Love it CL, as always you are direct, pithy and “spot on”. Gave me my morning chuckle although to a cheater there would be nothing humorous about this!
    I would never tell my cheater-x about this website, it is my private sanctuary and has been for many months now. I never miss a day of reading it. However, he and some family members may be suspecting I am getting help or knowledge from somewhere as I notice myself I am changing.
    My language is different. I have learned so many new words on this site! Many I have had to look up, even at 63 I am continually surprised and sometimes shocked at the new things I have learned here. I had no idea!!! Quite the education I am getting! Some of the new words find their way into my daily conversation ( some new words will NEVER be repeated out loud haha). I catch myself talking about kibbles, Narc tendencies, “cake eating”, gas lighting, codependency etc. And people are starting to notice and wonder.
    I am different! It is not just that I am now living cheater free! With my new education has come understanding. I can look back on my past 42 years of marriage and I know that I am not to blame, at least not in the way my cheater-x wanted me to believe. I am not perfect but I was not the cause of all his problems either! I have learned about FOO issues (another one I had to research) and “love bombing” and I get it now! With the new knowledge and understanding I have peace and serenity and I can look forward to the future and whatever it may hold without fear or anxiety. I am mighty too! In the last year I have taken care of all my own snow shovelling, lawn mowing, house maintenance and more. Last week I replaced a ceiling light fixture all on my own. Took me two hours and two trips to the hardware store but what a great feeling! I have money in the bank, and extra to spend on trips to see grandchildren, didn’t need help from anyone! Family and friends have noticed the changes in me too and my daughter has told me she is proud of how strong I am. It doesn’t get better than that!

    So for all you stalkers out there looking for your chumped wife or husband you may get an education too! If you read long enough on here it could happen that some small glimmer of understanding could slip into your sad sausage, twisted , dark, evil brains and one day a bit of light shines through. I really doubt that your attention span is going to last long enough for that though! Too bad!

    • Sorry, that came out garbled, was trying to cut and paste cause I kept losing my post on here and now parts are doubled! Darn word press!

      • Thea,
        That’s ok, I get what you are saying.
        I too, have learned so much on this site, ( wishing so much it had of been sooner).
        In my head and sometimes out loud, I use words and expressions from CL, CN. They are brilliant, expressive, spot on.
        Sometimes I think someone I am talking to will reply to me, “Chump Lady? If this happens, that would be a whole new world, as their next question would be, “What is your post name?”
        Chumps, the whole world over, coming together to love, respect and hold each other up.
        Thank you CHUMP LADY.

        • I’m afraid I’m kind of responsible for Cheaters haunting this place; every time I read an advice column by a Chump who’s still stuck in the Hopium Phase, I steer them to The more readers the better. Besides, all Cheaters use the same book, so how would they recognize themselves?

    • I echo your ‘learning new things’ sentiment. Don’t get me wrong, my wifes affair is the most painful, cruel, emotionally abusive thing that has ever happened to me. But in a weird way, I’ve really enjoyed learning about the darker parts of human psychology. Aside from being a victim of it, it’s actually all rather interesting.

      • MightyChris —

        At first I agreed. Now I think my knowledge is actually harmful to me.

      • QueenMother, I’m so sorry. Cheaters suck, and cause lasting damage. I find my awareness of these patterns to be protective. Conflict with my boss? I can see his bullying tactics and I feel less like crap. Acquaintance listening attentively to me at a dinner party but making quietly mean comments to his wife? Fuck right off.

        • This!! Feel the same, some of the things I have learned on this site I truly wish I never knew about (some pretty terrible imagery here) but it has made me stronger and better able to deal with all aspects of life…, friends, work. If what I have learned here can help just one other person I am content!!

      • I totally agree Mighty Chris. After learning so much about sociopathic narcissism, and watching it in action, if it was possible to separate the pain and heartbreak observing it would be quite fascinating. These people are wired so very differently. I’m sure like you I’ve been left open mouthed at the sheer capacity of what people actually do when there’s no conscience to rein them in. Chilling but compulsive if it didn’t hurt so very much

  • I could not love this post more, even if it came with a free slice of pizza. Truly!

  • Love ya ChumpLady!! Have a nice day!!

    You made my day!

    Cheaters suck,

  • During MC I was often so exasperated/devastated by cheaters behavior it was difficult to express myself. I often referenced Chumplady’s site and specific blog posts that captured my feelings. The male MC surprisingly to me, took to the message and intent of the site. (I am in a bible-belt area and thought he might be offended with some language)
    Cheater, not so much. I think it blew his cover as supreme being. CL and CN highlighted how mundane and clichéd he really was…. He would often delete emails without reading anything I would send him-even jokes. Just another red flag of my insignificance to him.

    • So long story short re topic- cheater would have no interest in taking the time to stalk me here. Further he would refuse to recognize himself if he would deign to actually read content, or the impact on the chump.

  • I pretty much know the OW haunts this site reading about my yrs of marriage to an addict. I know during the beginning years of their relationship she would of defended him tooth and nail. Throw a few yrs in there and now she is reading the truth about his personality. She now can read back and read what her life is about in my words. It brings a smile to my face knowing he now pisses in her closet. The “gift” that keeps on giving.

  • I love this!!!! My Ex Sister in law creeper on here. She made comments on Chump Lady facebook page which Tracy immediately deleted then warned me of the vile remarks. How sad that my Ex and my Ex family have to creep so deep. I must have exposed a nerve. Good. Those mother fuckers deserve it after the 20 years of nothing but backstabbing and gossip. Holidays are so much better now. I truly never had a peaceful holiday until my divorce. It’s amazing!!!
    Thank you Tracy…..
    I am currently on a 2 week “Haircation “….that’s taking hair classes in California with Top, well known Artist. I am staying a a fabulous hotel. I brought my best friend who saw me thru my divorce. I would have never done this trip if I were still married to my anchor.
    Let the creepers creep…. I know my Ex husband Whore does.
    If I were her…..I’d want to be me!!!

  • Xhole very seldom read anything. If he did read this blog, he wouldn’t recognize himself because he is so very special, don’t you know? NOTHING like these cheaters who blew up their families for the cheating experience. He thinks he is better than everyone and has convinced himself he isn’t a typical cheater. Between Dday 1 and Dday 2, I tried to convince myself that as well. No such thing out there…they are all the same.

    • Yup, Cheater is still convinced that he is a GOOD PERSON. I just need to “get over it” and overlook that he is is lying, cheating, gaslighting, emotionally abusive jerk who lacks empathy, remorse, and a conscious, but is otherwise a good guy.

    • “he wouldn’t recognize himself” is exactly right. My ex certainly wouldn’t. After all, he never physically abused me and he was fair with the financials and he still cares about being a dad. Why am I not grateful? The irritating part is that I know him. If I was any other woman confiding in him how my husband was blowing up my marriage by saying and doing exactly the things that he said and did, he would be all over himself with empathy saying “what a terrible person” and wanting to play the hero to “rescue” me from my terrible situation. He is so totally blind to his own poor behavior and wouldn’t see the parallels at all. Why should I be grateful to him for not being a bigger jerk than he already is?

  • I don’t know how an ex could identify their chump here. Most stories sound so similar and cheaters sound so similar. They all are following the cheater hand book.

    • This is exactly what I was thinking! Weird timing for CL to post this though. I feel like this is my fault as x knows of CL and CN now.

  • I wouldn’t ever share this website or any other information I found helpful to me in understanding things with the now ex cheater. He would only use what he read or heard to adapt his narrative and behavior to better manipulate and lie. His pattern was to save and use information about me in order to do this the whole time we were together. Anything I shared with him when I thought he was my life partner and what I thought people in a truly committed, intimate relationship did was just tucked into his toolbox to use later for abuse and manipulation. I unknowingly provided him with ammunition for my own destruction. He knew which buttons to push and where my vulnerabilities were and he used that to control and manipulate me. After I learned this was his MO I never let my guard down again. It was a painful lesson and has taken a long time to recover.

  • My cheater ex fuckwit would never come here looking for me and my thoughts. In his mind he just had the sad sausage miserables being married to a wife who did most of the adulting and was boring. He couldn’t help but find those twu wuvs with young schmoopie (our 14 year old daughter’s 20-something year old coach at the kids’ school). And the first schmoopie he left his wife and small kids for was just an unfortunate event when he thought the grass was greener until he found out she really was batshit crazy and she was moving on to another doctor she thought she could control. Surely the wife doesn’t know about the 2 suspicious secretaries in those 20 years together.

    The asshole didn’t think he’d get caught and could play out his victim role to another stupid, low life schmoopie he could use and bang for a while and enjoy those butterflies while it lasted. He would not come here for anything and he wouldn’t recognize himself in any of the stories. He’s just all awesome and just made ‘a mistake’.

  • My DD 20 sent my X one of CL’s posts and he turned his channel to charm. He emailed her and feigned concern and mentioned how sad the whole thing was – these unrepentant cheaters! He is so glad that he takes full responsibility. (He has threatened to take me to court because he thinks I am defying the non-disparagement clause. He thinks it’s a gag order. So stupid). He wondered what in particular made her think of him as she read CL’s post? So clueless!
    Denial – Don’t Even Know I Am Lying. (Just need the Know to be No)

  • Speaking of weird cheater stalking…my ex called my mom, little brother and best friends to invite them to a surprise bday party for our kid. He lives in another town, is remarried to A.P. and our minimal contact only concerns logistics. We’re already having a party for him with my side of the family on kid’s actual bday. I’m not calling up his side of the family to invite them to have the appearance of “one big happy family.” Doesn’t he have his own friends and family to participate?
    Normally, my best friend would advocate for “sucking it up for the kid,” but she sees right thru the manipulative bullshit and actually supports me in this; because last time he was appearing to reconcile, he tried to befriend my side to prove he’s not that bad of a guy. We had a mutual bday party for our kid 3 years ago, when I thought he was serious about saving the family unit. We still had the emotional connection (addiction) then. Lots of time has passed since then and those times are dead. Anyone who doesn’t understand firsthand the trauma of betrayal will say that I have to eat the shit sandwich and be the “mature one” for the child’s well being-you know-graduations, and other various events that involve the attendance of both parents. This is about the only site that validates my need to keep my boundaries clear-that I don’t have to allow cheater x back into my life or even pretend to like him or pretend to be “friends.” My real friends don’t treat me like he does (blaming and name calling – hope that’s working out for their marriage.)
    I realize my mom is my kid’s grandma, the bday party is about my son and not me, that she is an adult and allowed to make her own decisions; but my ex has a way of charming my mom into thinking he’s this great guy after all he’s done. She was considering going even though she’s already going to our party for him. I realize she doesn’t share the same feelings I do about x, but I reminded her about the time I wanted to have a wedding reception with all the family, and she told me she didn’t feel comfortable being in the same state with my dad, and I respected her decision and decided not to have a reception since w got married on the fly already (talk about fast forwarding…)
    Idk, that whole thing of him inviting my friends and family to his bday party for our kid, (I was not invited,) just smells of rotting flesh.

  • CL writes: “But help is not why you’re here, is it? I mean, I know chump pain is intoxicating (speaking of furtive boners) — the way it seems All About You. Seeing yourself discussed might remind you fondly of the ol’ pick-me-dance.”

    I watched a move the other day, King Arthur with Jude Law and Eric Bana and one line from Arthur’s evil predecessor stood out to me, reminding me of my cheater:

    “When people fear you, it is the most intoxicating feeling a man can possess”

    I immediately had an epiphany – my cheater reveled in the abusive manipulative emotional psychological control she held over me, taking advantage of my honest noble desire to care for her and support her and our family.

    • Buddy: I think your epiphany is spot-on.

      My STBX actually admitted this when I (in my moment of epiphany) told him he used my integrity as a weapon against me.

      They skew the best of humanity into being an Achilles Heel. It ticks me off so much …. we should be encouraging the best within ourselves and each other, not discouraging it.

  • Well the only way my STBX asshat would read here would be to gather info for court, or to Intimidate. it certainly wouldn’t be to understand the pain he caused.

    If he is reading here… this message is for you!

    Your predictableness bores me! Ooo, does that sound familiar?

    Stop stalking me and get a hobby! Oh, that probably sounds familiar too. Alas, I am no longer the marriage police, I suggest you stop being the divorce police!

    It must be your low self esteem that causes you to check up on me! Yet, another familiar phrase ????‍♀️.

    You should probably see someone for that depression! Well slap me in the face and call me chump… another familiar phrase!

    Here, take that karma with the leftover shit shandwich you made!

  • Before DDay when I knew our marriage was having trouble but didn’t know why and we had already decided to see a counselor (which I was happy about because I thought we could fix what was wrong), I sent him some articles on perfectionism and how much damage it can do to relationships. I wanted him to take a look. He was offended that I was implying that his high standards might have anything to do with our relationship problems. Evidently not. His standards couldn’t have been that high after all if he fell for a selfish, self-centered woman with no moral compass. I guess I was the only one who was expected to be perfect. Trying to make these creeps self-reflect is pointless.

  • My ex definitely stalked this & other support sites. I caught him a couple times. Hilarious how he did all the sneaking around for years then went all victim over my efforts to cope / heal.

    He actually called me out in joint therapy sessions, complaining that those efforts were really potentially harmful to him. “Don’t ruin my good guy image”.

    When I explained the anonymity of these sites & therefore their safety & privacy as compared to confiding in friends who knew him, both our marriage counselor AND his therapist backed me.

    So there, Fucktard! Read ’em & Weep. After all, your FuckedUpery has even won you a spot in the Cheater Hall of Fame, complete with cartoons & everything!
    Really, you owe us all a Big Thank You.

  • My ex found my CL book, got on here a few times to see what was going on, and her reaction was to rage at me. Why the rage? Like with a lot of things she did, I don’t know why. But my guess is that by me reading CL and my changing attitude towards her (stopping to take all the blame and starting to call her out on her shit) was changing the narrative of the end of our marriage and that was upsetting to her.

    But I’m sure she didn’t learn anything from being here. Our ex’s aren’t going to glean anything from this site – particularly the ones we all seem to have dealt with, which seem to be the long term, serial cheating types. Those people in particular seem to have huge (but fragile) egos and are way too big of cowards to read this stuff and actually risk having to look at themselves in the mirror.

  • If my ex found me here, first I would be shocked, as he doesn’t read. He doesn’t need to read since he already knows everything (said sarcastically). And second, every.single.thing. I post here is fact. He could not dispute ONE THING! I’m neither embarrassed or ashamed. That’s on him!

  • I know of several friends who stopped posting here because they were being stalked by either cheater or OM/OW. They still read here. To the stalkers: go sit on a cactus and rotate.

    Mine? It would take too much effort. And someone would have to read it to him. Wait, maybe he has but he told himself the description wasn’t wonderful enough to be him.

    When I visited friends in Mobile, I saw an alligator just off the pier. That cold, unengaged, barely tolerant non-expression in its eyes. For a second there, I thought Goofy had stalked me to Alabama.

    Apologies to the alligator.

    • Reptilian stare to go with the reptilian brain of a narcissistic cheater.

    • LOL! “That cold, unengaged, barely tolerant non-expression in its eyes.” That’s may rival how “she had those crazy eyes,” that so many men use to talk about an ex.

  • I stopped myself from posting CL posts on my Facebook because not ex husband but OW stalks my profile and I dont want her to find my safe space on here and use it against me.

    • You know that you can block people from seeing your Facebook page. I recommend you block her for good.

    • Come on Junglechump…if you’re going to partake in technology in the 21st century, do so with gusto. Surely you know how to block people on FB right? It’s not the same as unfriending them. It’s much, much, better. When you block someone, you become instantly invisible to that person and they become invisible to you. Then you go and set your privacy settings to “friends only” and while you’re at it, check to see what the public sees when they look for you. Some people (stalking other women for example) are not above creating fake Facebook accounts but if your privacy settings are on “Fort Knox” mode, then she can’t see shit even if she makes a fake profile.

      Block her! Set your privacy settings to friends only and NEVER accept friend requests from anyone you don’t know. No excuses if you’re older. I’m 51 and when I get stumped, I ask a 30 year old at work or I google it myself.

      • uhoh you guys forgot who we are dealing with, a lazy cheater and a snaky OW!!!

        she looks with my ex husbands account!!!!! (i know because a few times she literally copied something from me me to tweak into a post for her yoga shot business) my account is set to private since forever… i have not blocked my ex, we are pretty much no contact, but not hostile (i might be internally) and i would like to keep it that way. he does “like” my daughters pictures which is way weird since sometimes thats the only contact we have.

        my ex is such an idiot, i am sure it hasnt crossed his mind she will look in his email, facebook etc. i dont even email him anything regarding our kid because i know she is the one who reads it (got a gogle email a year after DDAy that his recovery email was changed from my email to something else from a Mac computer, must have been OW cause my husband is clueless about that stuff)… LOL i am planning to send an email to him with the dates he paid childsupport (3 times in 2,5 years) and how much he is behind (over a year), so she can spackle about what a douche her catch is.

  • If the X came here this is my message to him. The same message I gave to him the last time I was alone with him, but I used two hands, not one.


  • And yet cheaters are the people who the Reconciliation Industrial Complex would have us treat as timid forest creatures …

  • My XH would never bother to stalk me here, him and Schmoopie are living the dream, working at a fancy Ivy League college in the east. It never hurt him to hurt me. Thankfully, I’m at Meh and honest-to-god it happened on a Tuesday.

    I’m more concerned with an XBF. He knew I visited this sight because he lived with me. I love reading all of the thoughtful, insightful, honest and intelligent writing on this blog. I don’t think I’ll ever quit hanging out with Chump Nation and Chump Lady. You people got me to where I am today.

    The XBF didn’t believe that the people here are real. Come to find out, he was the one that wasn’t real.
    It wouldn’t stop him from trying to snoop on me though.

    Another good Friday challenge, (besides writing dating profiles for our X’s… Hahaha), would be how some of us have fixed our pickers and saw the red flags and realized we’d used our life time supply of spackle up on our cheaters.

  • I actually cut and paste the one when CL related a cheater to someone who would push you down a flight of stairs to get what they want. She didn’t seem to understand what was being said. I’m sure she would disagree with any and al written here. After all, she was in a fog…. midlife crisis… acting out…. made a mistake…. continued to lie because she didn’t want to further hurt my feelings…. obviously she googled what to say after being caught!

  • I must confess, please forgive me, Chump Nation:

    Long, long ago, when I was knee deep in the pick me dance, thinking we were in wreckonciliation, one of exh2’s A. P,s contacted me. We talked, and I shared a couple of Chump Lady’s posts to her, as well as many articles on narcissists.

    Well, being the idiot she is, she shared them with The Evil One/exh#2. A few days later, TEO sent me a text calling himself a “narcissitic chump”— I was too busy laughing at him to correct him, idiot.

    The idea of him coming on here two and a half years later spying on me is laughable. Not in the funny sense, but more of the sense of “what the f#ck”…”who does that”???
    I see him now, Mrs. Dumb-Ass curled up beside him in the bed and hes spying on me…


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