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Dear Chump Lady, Is it okay to fuck with his head?

hateyouDear Chump Lady,

Is it OK for me to fuck with his head?  I really want to scare him and the OW over the holiday season for my amusement. I probably would not follow through (but I may). I know stuff that will freak them out, not to mention his other family members, if I disclose the info (think porn addiction). 

He has no clue as to whom I have disclosed this info. I know where they live (five hours away). I just want to say to them that I will drop in to wish them a happy holiday, and then share with them. In the past, I have stated that I may drop by and he has freaked out. That gives me a good feeling. There is so much more that I am pissed about. This would give me some holiday pleasure.

So, is it OK to fuck with his head?



Dear Catlady,

Yeah, so how’s that going to go? You drop by elderly Aunt Mildred’s house and over gingerbread cookies you say, “By the way, Bob likes anal sex. Really likes it. Honestly, it’s a fetish when you consider how many porn videos he’s downloaded in the last month. Me? I never cared for it. But apparently, OW really digs it if his Instagram account is anything to go by.”

No Catlady. You don’t do that. It’s not okay to triangulate. Because you’re not just fucking with your cheater’s head, you’re fucking with Aunt Mildred’s head. You’re involving innocent people who don’t need your drama or the details of his sex life. (Imagined or real.)

You’re not going to get the reaction you crave. “Tell me more! Were any goats harmed in the making of those videos?” or “Bob is a TERRIBLE person! I will never share a Christmas pudding with him again! He is DEAD to me!”

No. They’re going to think you are a despicable person for sharing such intimate details of his sex life with them. They’re going to feel mortified. Intruded upon. And sorry for your cheater. “Who is this horrible woman saying such terrible things?” You will not be an object of sympathy. You will be resented. TMI! There is NO artful way to discuss his porn addiction. NONE. To do so would be seen as spiteful, because it is spiteful. You said yourself — you want to fuck with his head.

Fuck with your own head. Ask yourself why you’re giving this douchebag, the OW, and his family so much mental real estate. Don’t you have Christmas shopping to do and 15,000 holidays details to attend to like the rest of us?

I understand the impulse for revenge, I really do. As I’ve written publicly, I had the most violent fantasies of gutting my cheater with a fish knife. Didn’t do it, of course. But I thought about it. Infidelity is an injustice and it can bring out the vigilante in a chump. HE MUST PAY! He must be humiliated the way I have been humiliated! He must suffer!

Look, being the shithead he is is punishment enough. Oh, I know it doesn’t feel that way, but get some years out from this crap. You’ll see how pathetic these people are. How undeserving they are of our thoughts. It’s embarrassing that we were ever associated with them. The best thing you can do for yourself is just get the hell away from this person, the OW, and his family. Go no contact and wrestle your revenge fantasies down to the ground.

Please don’t confuse my advice to not keep a cheater’s secrets (“Oh, we grew apart”) with permission to share every mortifying detail with everyone. Especially for spite. If people ask you why you broke up, absolutely tell the truth. “I couldn’t live with his girlfriend.” or “He was a serial cheater/sex addict.” That’s very different than Facebook blasting his friends’ list with the minutia of his illicit activities.

Be a class act. Be meh. Tell the people closest to you what happened, and be graphic with them if you must. Word will spread, I promise you. Meanwhile, get on with your life. Enjoy that you don’t share space — physically or mentally — with a cheater. Let the OW have his porn addiction. Keep your sanity, Catlady. And your dignity.

This post ran previously. 

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  • This. All of this. My ex married his OW. They gave themselves all the punishment, because they married a cheater.

    Revenge isn’t worth it. It won’t bring back anything you lost, but it will keep you from finding something better (hobbies, dates, friends,etc.). You lose your shot at a new, improved life. Think of your happiness as the best revenge of all.

    • Amen to this! I can relate to revenge thoughts and fantasies: hand up here for having them. But putting them into practice…no. My cheater married his OW as well. She is pregnant I hear. 3 years out and my life is like 10 times better than when I was together with him. New friends, new hobbies, better health, better self confidence. Meh, life is good!

        • Living well is the Best Revenge. Two cheaters marrying and expecting to live happily ever after is stupidity on parade, and that parade will eventually come to an unhappy end. No need to be there to watch.

          • It’s true – once a cheater, always a cheater. My cheating fiancé married the dude that knocked her up, also a cheater, after she handed me my nuts on DD1. Six years later they cheated on each other and split. She married the next cheating BF and divorced him too not long after due to more cheating, etc., etc. The cycle is never ending. I lost track after the last one because I entered the land of meh and lost interest.

    • Revenge can even hurt you, if your divorce settlement and child custody hearings are still pending. DO NOT give your STBX any ammunition to use against you.

      Don’t get me wrong. You should absolutely disclose everything to your lawyer and the court. But what I’m also saying is that you should do it in a dignified way, so that you don’t lose your credibility and lose your kids to the fuckwit. Repeat: DO NOT give your STBX any ammunition to use against you. The dignified but devistating disclosure under oath is the best revenge of all.

      Yes, it would be delicious to give his house a new spray-paint job announcing his offenses to the neighbors. But I suggest you limit yourself to just fantasizing about it on a nice safe blog like, maybe, this one.

    • Perhaps think of it this way: every single thought and molecule of energy that you direct towards your cheater spouse/partner subtracts from what you are devoting to yourself. Time will march on regardless. You don’t want to become emotionally stuck. You want to move forward and Gain a Life. Dig in deep, do the hard work and move on to a better and more fulfilling future.

      @LovedaJackass offers many, many wonderful suggestions. You can find them in the Forum.

  • Early on I had a fair number of detailed revenge fantasys. The key part was that the person you are getting revenge against has to know it’s coming, is powerless to stop it and is unable to get retribution.

    One of my favourites was the idea to send hookers to the OM at a time and place where he would be with what I thought of at the time as my wife. If he would have caught something that would have been a bonus.

    I had a few friends who “know people” that would have been happy to help out too.

    I didn’t though and despite the lack of entertainment from that I’m good about things. I “am” the better person. I do believe though that Mme YogaPants lived in fear of me doing something like this. Google “gotcha golf joke” for my belief in what she was probably expecting and maybe still is.

    I think that CL would 100% agree with this – the best revenge is living well. Before she left and even pre-DDay Mme would go on and on about how she was no good for me and that I should find someone else. I haven’t. Nearly 2 years out now from DDay and I am still single Dad to my adult son (adult daughter lives on her own far away). The house is neat and mostly clean. The Christmas decorations were jolly and I haven’t cried myself to sleep in nearly a year. I was thinking yesterday while I was tidying up from dealing with Christmas dinner left-overs on how freeing it was to not have to deal with her, her whack-a-doodle family, or the mess and hoarding that she had all over the house or the stress and anger she carried around her like a fog especially at this time of the year. The fact that as I discovered that she had taken my son to see her parents for about the first time in 4 years and then later for a very short visit to see her guy possibly for the first time were annoyances. And before you accuse me of stalking, the kids and I use an app called Life360 that allows us to know where each other are and that we are safe.

    I’m living well – and it turns out that I don’t “need” a woman in my life, much less her. One would be nice, but if one does show up, it will be on my terms and because I am comfortable with that and not because I am “incomplete” without her. Knowing that I don’t need her and am doing better without her may be driving her nuts. I don’t know because we are no-contact.

    We talk here about “grey rock” – well perhaps the best revenge is to be a sparkly rock. Attractive but unmovable and unobtainable.

    Petty revenge is sweet and we all hope for the Karma Bus to pass by – we’re human. But again, the best revenge is living well and under our own rules and not their’s.


    • You’re so right bow tie. I also had those revenge fantasies. As I lie here in my new house, I am actually enjoying the solitude( short lived as my grown kids and sister arrive at noon). I am so proud of what I have accomplished since the Wackjob left—built up my business, bought a house and renovated it( my design and supervised all work). He lives off another woman as his host( a parasite needs a host). Karma for both—she got a cheater and he got a woman who sleeps with a married man. And damn isn’t it cold in the GTA this morning!! Meh.

    • BowTie, ah, you brought back a memory! During the marriage policing, when I believed they were “just” having a really creepy emotional affair (because what 48-year-old fucks his 18-year-old niece?), I found Life360 on Woody’s phone. He and Bazooka Jane used it to know where each other were at all times. Strange, they didn’t include me, the wife and aunt! It grossed me out and I told them either add me or delete the app. They deleted the app. Of course they did!

      Now that he’s behind me in the rearview mirror, I’m more inclined toward the happy Mehtamorphosis fantasies. Revenge, meh! Why fuck with his head, when he has already done such a fine job of fucking himself? Now he will always have to live with being That Guy … and I don’t have to say a word.

    • You mention hoarding and I see that quite a lot on this site. My fuckwit cheater has some hoarding tendencies and I saw that in his narc grandmother but not his narc mother. She throws everything away including gifts the kids gave her. When they moved, if you didn’t grab something it was gone and not to goodwill, to the dumpster (nice stuff that people could use- just sad.)

      My mom and her parents also had this hoarding trait. My mom and grandmother also had narcissistic traits or at least emotional attachment issues. I always chalked it up to the living through the depression thing. I wonder if there is a connection or just a separate issue. Any thoughts.

      • From what I’ve read, hoarding is a pretty common thing with cheaters. Whether that is related to narcissistic tendencies or not I’ll leave to the experts.

        In Mme’s case there may well be a family of origin component. Her father was particularly bad about it which made it difficult to move him into a nursing home. He would hide things in his car as they were trying to prepare the house for sale and then blame his kids for anything stealing that he couldn’t find.

        I think perhaps they put value on “things” and appearance rather than people. Combine that at least in the case of Mme with poor organizational skills and you have a recipe for what a self-help guru – Fly Lady (my sink is shined almost every day) calls CHAOS. Can’t Have Anyone Over Syndrome. We had boxes and bags piled up everywhere. When one spot was full, she’d just start piling elsewhere.

        A key thing that I noticed when she and her brother stripped the house back in July 2016 was that they took all the “valuable” things. Original art, antiques, collectibles or as I thought of a lot of it – useless crap. On her final trip through the house as agreed to with our lawyers to ensure that none of “her” stuff was left behind I could hear her rage to our son who was official escort that “if your Dad tries to sell this bookcase you tell him ….”. Merely because it was old and she felt it was valuable. Pretty obvious projection.

        I remember talking to my daughter about it and we did scratch our heads because the stripping of the house was both methodical and random. We joked later as well when I found a stack of pickle dishes in with some sheets.

        So – my house is no longer jammed with piles of stuff. My dining room actually can be used. We used to have to make an effort to clear a corner of the table for a more formal meal. The house no longer smells of dog urine (a different story). I’ve not replaced much that left. I got some new original art at a charity auction. Inexpensive and it brings me joy. In the spring I will get rid of the fancy wine/rack kitchen island/table thing that she insisted on having – she was very alcohol focused for the couple of years before she left and replace it with the kitchen table that has been sitting in storage for 10 years. Getting down to 1 from 3 will be nice.

        Presuming that she is still in what she calls her “tiny apartment” – she is undoubtedly surrounded by piles of “stuff” and from the fact that she thought I still had our wedding license (given to her in a box marked “Important documents” in a file marked “wedding”), she probably hasn’t unpacked any of it.

        Oh – and in her last trip through Mme took a bunch of the pickle dishes that I had in the donate box 😀

        • What’s a pickle dish?

          I’m the opposite of a hoarder. I tend to get RID of stuff and then later realize that I actually could have used it. Lol.

          Cleaning out the crap feels so good!!

          • LOL – It is a dish for serving pickles on. Yes – she had at least a dozen of those specialized plates with divided sections.

            I think they got used maybe twice in almost 30 years. I believe that I kept 2 – you never know when you may be needing to serve a variety of pickles on short notice.

            • OMG my Mom! She was very neat but she had so many specialized kitchen things that would spill into other rooms’ storage. Every holiday she was obsessed with two things no one else cared about, Waldorf Salad (a green jello aspic with walnuts and apples served with, gag, mayonnaise) and The Relish Tray, a divided crystal tray of canned pickles and olives. Since she passed, neither has made an appearance, A true antipasti tray, yes. Not the Appalachian home canned version

              • I ❤️ Waldorf-ish salad. Only I make mine with apples, raisins, walnuts and a homemade mayonnaise.

                Green jello? Never heard of it that way…ew.

                And relish trays here too, with my home canned pickle assortment.

              • I grew up with tomato aspic! It was lemon jello, tomato sauce, and canned green beans, in a jello mold. Pop that sucker out (yes, it made a sucking sound) and serve with a dollop of Miracle Whip. This is in Northern Cali–hey-oh!

                My. Dad. LOVES. Tomato aspic.

                *gag!* I’m just saying. If you’re hungry, Google tomato aspic. Presto! Appetite suppressed!

                Much as I was daddy’s little girl, I ain’t eating that ever again. I finally woke up.

            • I have actually been looking for pickle dishes. I didn’t know that’s what they are called! My three-year-old can’t sit still through a meal, so I figured compartments on a plate would help her. We could work with her on eating all the cheerios, then she could play, then come back for the next section of raisins, etc. I tried using a muffin tin, but that’s too many compartments. I also tried those plastic Easter eggs, but she just took them with her. I just found an egg full of raisins hidden behind a couch cushion, from July, I think. 🙂 <3

          • Several people in my extended family cannot tolerate the accumulation of ‘stuff’. The tendency in some is so extreme I consider it the opposite of hoarding and I call them “divestors”. They must divest themselves of any and all trinkets, papers, leftovers, any item gifted or not which does not have a clear and immediate use for them.
            One Xmas the family gifted one of these divestors with a box of ‘stuff’: a doorknob, cereal box toys, old bill receipts, soap dish, wooden egg…he was only mildly amused.

              • A divestor must be what I am. Why keep it? My mom is the same way. Her huge attic is empty except for a few holiday things. I don’t have an attic, which is just as well.

        • Wow, mine did the same thing with stripping the house of anything she felt was of “value” while I was at work. Most of it was what I would call “garage sale” items. I didn’t get it either. She was the same way thinking if it is old, it must be valuable mentality. I didn’t realize how much junk we had in the house until she moved out. When I moved out and sold the house it was amazing just how little stuff I actually had! I have a 2 year rule. If I have not used something in 2 years, it either gets donated to charity or in the trash. I refuse to have clutter in my house.

          On the other hand, her father is a major hoarder as well. He has a 2 car garage with a loft with a pathway to walk through. The accumulation of junk is literally up to the rafters. He goes to garage sales and just buys stuff and brings it home and adds it to the pile. I always thought he had a problem, but if I mentioned anything about it the response was fury.

      • Wow. My deranged cheater/ crooked tax evader STBX is a hoarder too. As was his mom in the decade or so before she developed Alzheimer’s. I just took it as a sign of accelerating disorganization in his brain (as he graduated from mere cheater to crook + cheater). But maybe it’s more like he collects objects in the same way he collects sex partners, with the misguided philosophy that “if a little is good, a lot must be better.” He has always lived his life according to that one, in pretty much all respects.

        • There has to be a connection between collecting objects and objectifying people.

          Plus, if you have several chickynot, you can have a backup or some spare parts if the current one isn’t giving enough kibble.

          • Ooooo – I like that, Feelingit!

            “There has to be a connection between collecting objects and objectifying people.”

            Cheater thinks, “More things for ME. Inanimate things, two legged things – no difference. I just want more things that entertain ME.”

            And the “spare parts” thing is funny because that’s exactly what the Python told me when I asked why he buys several of the same model kit (he has over 250 boxes of unmade models of vehicles – TOYS, actually).

            • ???? I thought the Fucktard was the only one who did this ^^^^^^^
              Hours spent away from his family and he kept purchasing more and more models. In hindsight, I thought his “hobby” was merely an attempt to control his cheating. Nah, they really ARE all cut from the same cloth.

            • My first husband liked to collect toys. He nearly spent my car payment on stuff at Hobby Lobby to make his own toys. In the same conversation where I had to explain that we couldn’t spend all the money in the account because I had to make a car payment, I also had to explain that a debit card is only similar to a credit card in that they can both be used to pay for things. He was unbelievably clueless financially. Playing with toys is a red flag for me, now.

        • Yep, my ex and his cheater dad(abandoned and then dutifully returned to his family) and his narc mother are hoarders. Their house is stuffed with all sorts of treasures. From the “antique” bed pan that is kept in the dining room on the floor next to the table, to the croaking frog by the front door next to the stuffed toy dog with a pile of plastic dog shit behind it. They have so much stuff that they can’t park a car in their two car garage. They also have a warehouse on the property full of stuff.

      • Interesting about the hoarding. My cheater didn’t hoard. He loved his sparkly stuff (new CD’s, new video games, new shoes, etc.) — but he felt no attachment to people OR things. He would get bored within a few days of a new item and have to go get something else. Yes, hindsight is 20/20. (Facepalm)

        One of the strange things after the implosion was realizing how almost imperceptible he was in our home. He only had a couple of old tool boxes he hadn’t used in years and maybe three tubs worth of clothes, etc. It was like he refused to invest himself in anyone or anything (while vehemently claiming to be invested, of course).

        Then again, the asshole (I think) runs a bit closer to the sociopathic side of the B-spectrum … there’s just a gaping hole where his soul should be.

        • Yeah, I am not so sure I am categorizing right, what cheater did may not be hoarding. He just had lots of stuff. He is entitled to new shiny stuff which becomes dull shit so he has to get more new and shiny. He has become an amazon addict.

          He also wouldn’t part with anything related to his hobbies over the years and I am still waiting for the day I can get rid of all that shit in the basement and garage.

          2 of the many things that he did that bothered me were buy new tools and parts when he already had them somewhere. He wouldn’t be able to find them when he needed them, so he would just buy more. He would blame the kids for taking the tools when it was his disorganization that was the problem. If it was the kids fault (which it wasn’t usually), a good dad would use it as a teachable moment, but no, that would involve effort and maturity.

          The other thing he would always do was leave a bunch of his crap in a box or paper bag and just set it on the work bench or a shelf instead of returning the items to their proper places. Usually, I couldn’t even see the connection between the items but I would give him the benefit of the doubt and assume there was some method to his madness. Hey, I was a chump.

          I think he is like a bag lady and it is really his mental illness.

          My girls used to fill bags with their things and have them all over their rooms when they were preschool age. I used to say they were bag ladies. They outgrew it and learned to organize.

          • Yes, I wonder if it all relates to the childishness of narcissists — mine has the attention span of a snowflake, and filled the house with crap he bought because he lost / broke the originals. He couldn’t be bothered to find / fix this stuff (“his” time was too valuable, since “he” made the majority of the money) and often expected us family minions to do it for him (then complained about our laziness if we grumbled). Any old stuff had to be replaced with “always-better” sparkly new, too, since he got bored so easily.

            Maybe stuff just naturally builds up when you have a narc, who considers actually making an effort to throw something away a type of housework that’s “beneath” him/her.

            But, the above still doesn’t explain why STBX hoards refilled plastic water bottles (dozens!). That’s serious bag man shit.

            Here’s to a cleaner New Year.

            • Fascinating thoughts regarding hoarding. True hoarders living in squalor can be mentally ill or dementing and feel terrified by the prospect of losing their possessions. It makes sense to me that our hoarder narcs loved the thrill of shiny new possessions and hobbies, but are above the menial task of sorting or throwing them out. Our garage was full of ex’s barely used crap including a never-sailed boat! – I had to sort it out when he ran away.

      • Mine was a hoarder and a neat freak which didn’t work out so well for him. He always complained that the house was cluttered, but 3/4 if said clutter was his. When I tried to collect some stuff to take to good will he went through the boxes and removed half of it saying “we can’t get rid of that”. Now he is helping his mother clean out her house and keeps bringing more stuff to my house. “Hey I ran across this at my mom’s and thought the kids might like it”. Needless to say he left all of the junk behind when he moved out so his place is spotless. I am slowly going through it all and I have learned not to let him know when I am about to make a trip to goodwill. I am happy to keep all of the old antique furniture from his side of the family, however. I told him I wouldn’t charge him to store it if he wouldn’t charge me to use it.

      • The cheater was a hoarder, I’m a thrower-awayer. And that’s the reason why we never lived together. I had a hoarding roommate when I was young and won’t ever live that way again.

        I don’t know where he got the hoarding from, his parents lived in a cute little dream house. Maybe his grandma hoarded. Most of his hoarding was gifts and memory triggering items and souvenirs. My guess was that he needed to cocoon himself up in a narcissistic shrine of his own amazingness. Which is pretty pathetic and disordered. I should have realized he was a middle aged man child and ran like the wind when I saw how he chose to live.

    • BT-
      My stbxh says this too:

      “(He’s) no good for me and that I should find someone else.”

      I never really understood that. But, I am 7 days no contact. I’m trying not to look at social media rn. Slowly, but goal is to live a good life. It’s been going well so far.

      • Good work, Lisa…every day a way is a brick in the wall between you & his skein of fuckedupness. I didn’t think I could do it(kids), but it gets easier & easier and is the foundation for some emotional freedom & healing.

        You can do this.

        Trust that they suck, as CL says. I struggled with that at first because my denial was so strong. But any person who would carry on a 3 year affair against their 27-30 year marriage to a 100% faithful, adoring wife is duplicitous beyond repair and not worth my spit if he were on fire.
        Hang in there, Lisa…it gets So. Much. BETTER.

    • xH collected bikes. Way too many. Then guns. Same. Then bikes again–and bike parts. He complained constantly about all the clutter–we were 5 living in quite a small home. All the “crap” was mine and the kids’, he would not part with his. “We could get rid of HALF this crap and nobody would even notice!!” (So I did when he moved out–hahaha.) But he also would not be bothered to care properly for anything, nor spend the time organizing any of it. He lives in a shit hole now. We’ve removed his crap, and my home has never looked better, whereas when he left it was a fucking DUMP.

      I wonder if he’s collecting women on his AM/AFF accounts now.

      • Stephanie – 9 bikes hanging in the garage. Lots of bike parts too. He hasn’t ridden in years (haha – it irritates his prostate!). He’s sold 3 (so down from 12). Nobody needs that many bikes, unless you’re an elite racing cyclist.

        And the Python is collecting women – from work, from, from OurTime, and Zoosk. And a few waitresses. Not all will go out with him, but he texts with them like he’s a 14 year old girl. Just as gossipy.


  • I fantasized many times about revenge.. Especially when the holiday season started and the memories of last years jolly season of abuse surfaced. I am a firm believer that if we leave it alone God or karma or whoever you believe in can do a far better job than I can at letting them reap what they sow. I am total no contact and that has been the best but someone somewhere decided that I needed to hear a little about the karma bus and I found out through a friend who does have contact with him that there is serious trouble in paradise… And the ow now owife who gleefully told me all about how much better she was for him than me and how their love could withstand everything blah blah is now searching his phone and finding out about his other twu loves…. Hahahaha. Thank you for the Christmas gift! I will sit back sip my tea and enjoy the company of all the non Switzerland friends I won in the divorce.

    • They will “foist themselves on their own petards” w apologies to Bill Shakespeare. We actually help them complete their self-destruction when we leave a cheater. No more wife-cover, no more “respectable family-person” façade, one less triangulating kibble-dispenser, leaving openings for twu-wuvs to learn they are just another to cheat on. Getting out of the line of fire doesn’t stop the random shooting, just gives them one less target!
      Happily removed the bullseye!

  • I’m pretty sure JAMF married OW5. (Not worth the effort to find out for sure) I know that he’s cheated on her at least 3 times, as of 4 or 5 years ago. As of now, that number must surely be much higher. Owife can have his serial cheating, compulsive lying, extreme debt jive ass. Getting her ‘man’ is all the revenge I need.

    At the time, the insane fantasies …. In retrospect, glad I didn’t do anything, as it negates his whole narrative that I was ‘crazy’. Swiss friends have all been banished and mostly cut contact w/him as well. Before that happened, I told a few that JAMF & I we’re divorcing due to OW5 and I was devastated. Word was out and because I was calm, his narrative didn’t stick.

    Almost 5 years divorced, occasionally run into these people. They try to tell me about his shitty life. Don’t care, too busy living my better life. They may/may not tell him (95% may). Sure it chafes his ads that I’m not pining over his fabulousness. ???????????????? I don’t need more vengeance than that.

  • Rerunning some columns in this holiday season, no-man’s land between Xmas and New Year.

    Funny to reread my advice. I agree with me, however, I’d add the caveat about telling — I’d share gory details with someone if I thought they could be harmed by the disordered. Like they’re a sex predator. Or say Aunt Mildred is vulnerable to having her pension check swindled by the ex. (In which case the gory details aren’t about Bob’s love of porn, but Bob’s criminal history swindling pension checks.)

    But fucking with third party’s heads to fuck with Bob? Meh.

    • I told everyone what the entitled exploitive narc had stolen from them WHERE I COULD PROVE it. His workplace didn’t want to know, his sister already knew some of it, my old neighbours (still his) I don’t know what they think/ believe but I refuse to be complicit in behaviour (theft) he indulges in that compromised my boundaries. Otherwise, meh.

      • Lexiechump,

        I gave all the explicit details in the letters and she is going to stay with him. While I do believe you should tell, they are in denial. They will stay with the cheater and be even more co-dependent. I sometimes wonder why bother telling. They don’t want to accept the truth.

  • This advice is the corollary to no contact. We know that no contact helps us see the cheater and his manipulations more clearly. And no contact protects us from the cheater….fucking with our heads. The term we use a lot around here is “mindfuckery.” In some cases, cheaters gaslight and manipulate in order to keep cake going or to protect themselves from exposure; but in other cases, cheaters indulge in this behavior for their own pleasure. We know intuitively when a cheater is deriving pleasure from our pain.

    Why would we want to be like them? I can sympathize with the urge to expose cheaters for what they actually are. It’s maddening that they are often adept at impression management–in the short run. In the long run, people who are paying attention see through their act. But no contact’s other side is that we need to disconnect from these toxic people. We have to stop thinking about the cheater, the APs, and their doings. We aren’t free until we let go of the anger. That doesn’t mean “forgive.” That means levying the one real consequence we have–we can make them meaningless to us.

    • This parallels my thought, that it is always best to stay off an ex’s radar. Doing things to mess with the ex would point the spotlight back at me, and that is the last thing I want because what I want is for the ex to be out of my life.

      He remarried a couple of weeks after our divorce was final, a young woman he had only known a short time. They divorced a year later and some mutual acquaintances told me she asked for my number and asked if they could share it. I said thanks for asking, and no, because I don’t want to talk with anyone about him. I also said that I found it really crappy that she asked them to pass the message at all and that the only thing I really had to say to her was to please not put the people we both know in the middle of something that isn’t theirs.

      So, of course, I was the asshole, in the end. Typical Switzerland people.

      Stay off their radar, the ex and the minions, says me. They only bring trouble.

  • Every “story slam” event that I participated in, and which KK and RPD attended, was an occasion for exceptionally vivid revenge fantasies. Imagine having a stage to yourself, a microphone, and a captive audience at your disposal, with the object of your righteous anger and his/her latest conquest sitting there in full view….the possibilities are endless.

    But that said…

    As satisfied as I was with my divorce attorney, he did mess up towards the end by not separating my pre-marital assets in the division — not a huge amount, but money I was entitled to that I now had to share. He never admitted to his error, and I noticed that he structured some of the paperwork to ensure that his own ass was duly covered, but I decided that it would be a serious error to try and “out-lawyer” a lawyer.

    To my mind, same goes for the fuckwitted cheaters in our lives. Any attempt to trump the outrageous and appalling behavior of those who have wronged us serves only to forfeit the moral high ground, even if only perceptually.

    (BTW — I received no legal bills from my attorney for the rest of the year, even though I know he was working to finalize my QDRO. So while I’ll never know if we’re completely square, I think the decision to not raise the issue was one that paid off.)

    • My attorney made big boo boos, too. After 30+ years of family law my highly recommended guy had never met such a petty cheater as my x, or as greedy a female lawyer as xh’s. They were the tag team from hell, as long as xh was willing to pay for it, she was willing to charge.

      Even though my attorney misjudged, he did make up for some of it in his billing. I know fighting to try to correct it could have cost more in the long run. Especially with the opposing counsel. You have to balance the anger at losses with the happiness at victories. I consider my great life, adorable house and respect of my family all victories.

      I’m sure my xh bill was 3x what mine was, too.

  • Yep, my cheater married the OW also. She thinks he has money. No, his mommy has money.

    Anyway, I agree with telling the truth. When people ask what happened, I respond with “I didn’t like his girlfriend.” That pretty much shuts them up.

    Poor character will eventually show. If anyone tries to spackle cheating, then they are delusional also and not worth your time.

  • It’s very difficult to resist the urge for revenge. By this point, five years later, I could compile a dossier to submit to the OM that would prove my XW is a shit: audio recordings of her declaring her love for me, telling me how she doesn’t love him, how unhappy she is with him, talking shit about him, texts saying the same things… But to what end? Would OM dump her? No way. He’s a chump. It would only reignite a war with me and my kids would suffer the consequences. They are unhappy in their self-wrought unicorn land and that’s good enough for me. The hardest part for me, even all these years later, is giving her the mental real estate. I wish I could banish her from my mind, but although it’s gotten better with time, I still think about everything every day.

    • Dear David, consider this: take a vacation. Get out of town. Go someplace you’ve been wanting to go. Do the things you want to do. Give it a try. It might give you relief, and new possibilities might surface.

    • Yes, letting go of the mental real estate is the hardest part, especially over the holidays. Even my kids were blue on Christmas Day, as we laughed (and cried) about Christmases past. Then, I received the news that my dear friend had died Christmas night, and the tears really started to flow.

      She had bravely fought cancer for seven years, and without her, I would have continued to stay stuck in the past. A practicing Buddhist, when I was mired in my anger phase (for way too long), she encouraged me to pray for X and OW. Pray? Are you kidding me? But she pointed out to me that their karma/consequence is being them. On the other hand, I was given the opportunity to begin again. While I could ever muster a prayer, she turned my thinking around completely. I began to appreciate my current and peaceful life.

      Like you, David, I have not looked for, much less found, another partner to walk this journey with me. I also am perfectly fine with that. A bit of a loner in my personal life anyway, I don’t need another person to make me feel complete. When other people were “shaming” me to “get back out there”, my friend told me to listen to my voice, and follow what felt best for me. She helped me see things in an entirely different way. I’m enough, and so are you, and we do not need a relationship to make us whole.

      Which leads me back to the reason revenge is not the answer. It diminishes us, makes us less than who we are. Why would we ever let the cheaters do that to us? “Let the wicked slay themselves.”

      • Violet,
        I am so sorry for the loss of your dear friend.
        Her unique, open loving way of facing life has touched you in an everlasting way.
        Cherish your memories. They will keep you warm.


        • Violet, so very sorry about the passing of your friend. And what a great friend she was. It’s a tribute to her to pass along the wise words she gave you.

          David, you can work on recovering your mental real estate. When we live with a disordered person, our brains and patterns of emotion and though become accustomed to dealing with disorder. That becomes habitual. And sort of addictive. It’s hard to let go but it’s key to getting a healthy life back. It’s not your fault; she’s disordered. But you have to learn about what she is and how non-disordered people can detach and recover.

          • Thank you for this…my daughter just ended a 2 year roommate stint with her BFF who (as it turns out) has a PD and really emotionally terrorized my daughter. She is early in recovery but is really struggling…its awful to watch.

      • Sorry about your friend, Vi.

        I’ve always admired those who have the ability to gently motivate others to look inward and choose a path of peace. I’ve always wanted to be that person, but I have an angry heart and am not wired that way.

        Thank you for sharing your friend with us. Hers was a life well lived.

    • David

      My suggestion to get her out of your head is to go to meet ups with other Chumps. When I see these amazing healthy loving people I’m appalled ANYONE would ever treat them with such disrespect and harm. And you see that not only are they kind and compassionate, they are hard working, talented, humerous,and admirable.

      That’s who you are David.

    • Re: getting her out of your head, have you tried EMDR therapy? It helped me big time … not only with the more obvious trauma of dealing with a sociopath, but the inevitable rumination long afterward. Now my brain is my own again and I rarely think about the cheater these days.

  • The OW, was an elementary school teacher at a public school. I could have ruined her rep and 90% probability gotten her fired. The only reason I did not is fear. I didn’t want him to come back and possibly follow through on killing me. Figured as long as he had her to live off of he would be less likely to fuck with me.

    It did piss me off when I saw she retired on her pension at 55, while I have to keep working past my own retirement date due to exasshole taking a chunk of my retirement $$. And, he has never held another job since before the divorce, years now. I have a reminder to check their facebook once in a while, to make sure he hasn’t been kicked out. He’s still with her even though he attacked her a few months after moving in. I got my PO renewed again last spring, only lasts 2 years. I don’t see any karma bus, he gets a free ride, she’s retired and when his mother dies she’ll leave big bucks to him. I hope his mother lives to be 120…

    • Datdamwuf

      What I see with the cash entitled is the laziness always catches up with them. They piss through others money and constantly need a new source.

      The Limited attempted to get my pension and settled for getting the liquid cash (8000) instead. I was fortunate he hooked up with an explosive one who had no self control. Had he pursued a good attorney he would have recieved half, alimoney, and the division of debt. I would have been fucked. It had nothing to do with being fair; he’s a total idiot, thankfully.

      Because they cannot ever appreciate or love they do not fare well over time. At 60 the Limited is all talk per usual. He’s waiting for his mother to die to split her assets, at best 50,000.

      Freedom and safety, are priceless. No revenge necessary.

      • I think it’s more a matter of not having him out of my head because I did not rain down on him. With all due respect to those who are peaceful with it. I grew up with the idea of justice and you don’t let people piss on you. The wheel turns, but if it doesn’t you give it a little shove. I think the problem is that no one ever caused me to fear death before. NO ONE, and I didn’t live an exactly idyllic life – though it was full of adventure and plenty of pain to go along with the pleasure. The only reason I didn’t pursue justice was fear. So bottom line, I’m still pissed at myself for the fear response that is not entirely gone, working on that. If he died, it would solve itself, but we all know; only the good die young.

        • Datdamwuf, Those wheels on the karma bus may turn slowly, but usually find their way over time. Some cheaters marry their OM/OW and live miserable lives. Some find themselves divorced again, usually for the same reasons. Some cannot manage their lives at all without their chump holding it together for them, and lose their jobs, reputations, status, homes, possessions, and friends. Some lose their health. Some, like my asswipe cheater ex, die a slow and painful death after all of the above and decades before the actuaries expect they should. Not only the good die young.

          • And some actually last. Hate to say it, but it’s true. Mr. Twatwaffles mother and step father cheated with each other on their spouses… step dad and MIL could not understand why his wife was so incredibly pissed.

            I sure know why!

  • I don’t need revenge, that took me about 2 years to learn.
    I was quiet, carried myself with grace and was the sane parent.
    Slowly his former flying monkeys and Switzerland friends were reaching out thru social media to tell me their stories of how they were victimized by him.
    I never said ..I told you so..seeing their grief was enough validation for me.
    Enough time has passed that I can now say I dodged a bullet.
    Their Karma does come, you may not see it because believe it or not you were lucky enough to get away from it…
    Rebuild your life and find peace.

  • Taking an active part in their downfall isn’t necessary because every despicable dysfunction they carry goes with them. And truthfully he partnered up with his equal. Why bathe in the shit they call bliss?

    The last thing I want is to care enough to triangulate. Actions prove indifference. Narcs as we all know cannot own their shit. Having been blamed for all his inadaquacies was a huge burden I’ve removed from my life.

    His success (doubtful) or failures (loss of business, no retirement, credit card debt, addictions, lying, cheating, future faking) are all on him now.

    I’m just happy that I got out when I did because it was a nightmare I escaped.

  • I know this ran previously so I don’t know if cat lady is still reading here but if you are, don’t bother. CL nailed it with her response. Figure out why you’re allowing tweedle-dee and tweedle-dumb to still occupy real estate in your head. When I found out OW and ex were living together and then got married is was like the best give ever. There is no karma/revenge that the universe or you could bring that is better than two cheaters that wind up together. You don’t even have to know what’s going on in their lives to know that they have both received the gift that keeps on giving.

    Just focus on your life and your goals and sweep the two cheaters out of your head. That is the best revenge you can get. Focusing on your life and making it so fulfilling that you no longer care what your ex is doing.

  • The Art of War has a simple premise that really helps me focus: “Always keep the moral high ground.”

    When you are the victim, you don’t need anything else. When you lose the moral high ground, you must fight to be the worst of the worst – a contest I don’t think any chump could ever beat a cheater in. When you stoop to their level, people begin to think that ‘maybe’ there was a justifiable reason for the cheater’s actions, and any lies the cheater tells about you go directly into the believable category.

    And, take it from someone whose cheater was a porn “addict” – no, knowing the truth about how far they went in their porn usage won’t freak out the family. My cheater’s family tried to justify the pit of a mind he had by agreeing whole heartedly that it was an ‘addiction’ and mental health disorder and that I was more than likely the reason why he got this ‘disorder’.

    The cheater’s family will often side with the cheater and they will do mental gymnastics to try to justify that person. In my case, cheater was the only son and our children are the only grandchildren. There is no way on earth they were going to chuck to the side their hopes and dreams of a great lineage by accepting their son enjoyed blow jobs for clearly sex trafficked women who were clearly sex slaves in the horrific sex slave industry. Nope, not their little ray of sunshine. And, I didn’t tell them about his exploits – he did! He realized that ‘confessing’ would garner him even more sympathy and I became a ruthless hag for not “loving him through is crisis” instead of a hero who stopped putting her own health on the line and letting someone who got off on disgusting porn and $50 blow jobs put his worn out, useless penis near me again.

    So no, keep the moral high ground, even if everyone else drops their moral compass or lowers their standards for being a decent human being.

    • Great reminder cool breeze. I find fuckwit occupying to much of my mental Realestate, most often in the early mornings before I get out of bed. I think of all the rational things I would like to tell him (and probably already have) thinking that will make him see the light, but it won’t. And it won’t make his parents or any other supporters see it either.

      I have taken the moral high ground for the most part, but I still have those same lingering thoughts. I would like these thoughts to go away totally. I am hoping that some of it is due to the lingering divorce and it is not futile in my quest to show a rational judge that fuckwit is irrational and I should get a good settlement including full legal custody of the children.

      • Feelingit-
        I agree with you, I think until everything is completely done we will still have those thoughts…. increased anxiety maybe?
        Once we know we won’t ever have to see them again I think that will help with getting to meh.
        I’ve got until March…..

      • My time for rehashing is in the car driving g to and from work, which is 45 minutes each way. It’s worse when Mr. & Mrs. Twatwaffles have the kids.

        However, I realized in the last couple of days that it IS more about their having my kids than it is about wanting his smelly, cigarette-smoke infused self around again. So I call that progress. I’m more resentful of how I’m a single parent again and how he put me in this position, more than missing him as the dad/husband in our family.

  • It is delusional to believe you can “fuck with their head”.

    We are chumps. If we pick up a pebble, they are going to pick up a brick.
    They enjoy lighting the world on fire, remember?

    Further, unless they owe someone in their clan money ( I have found the disordered love to steal) their tribe will not believe you. Even with a smoking gun. As soon as you pull out of the driveway- the cell towers will buzz. “Ernie was right! She is a crazy bitch. She just came over here and….”

    The fairy dust of cosmic justice and karma? Never seen it. These freaks are wired different. Sitting in a motel dump, doing drugs with a whore with no heat? It’s highly likely they are fine with it.

    I could write mountains on this subject of revenge.
    The world does not care what she/he did to you. (Just here).
    They will never understand the agony and hot misery that gnaws at your gut like an insane rat to

    Detectives will not understand. Their families will not. Yours might not.

    The only true revenge, the only shit sandwich you can force them to eat- outside of court ordered support- is to be happy. To stop giving them any kibbles.

    Some may not care- as mine does not with a kick in the teeth discard. But the only way to win the game is not to play.

    And the peace…. the peace that Passes understanding when you can lay your head on your pillow and not have a gut flip when the cell phone rings -it’s what you have to cling to you.

    You escaped with your life. Most did not want us to. That’s a win.

    • Gilley

      “It is delusional to believe you can “fuck with their head”.

      Oh, yes we escape with our life. The cheaters CONfabulated story was indeed meant to main. I had a first had account from the OW regarding his lies. Guess whose head he fucked with, hers. I’ll share.

      He had to support you.

      Now that’s priceless isn’t it coming from a woman who never met me. I make a good amount of money. For three and a half years I’ve supported myself, son and granddaughter.

      You’re a frigid cunt.

      This one is just delicious. Here’s the double edged sword of justice. The fact he told her we never had sex was tied into his prostate surgery that left him a two inch dick and a need for pity. Trouble is he was getting tested for HIV and being treated for an std within months of screwing her.

      Why didn’t you leave him?

      Nothing like a needy pig asking why you would stay with a serial cheater sociopath that SHE’S fuckimg.

      He won’t cheat on ME.

      Priceless. The old magical vagina can’t be replaced. It’s that special. Um, that’s already happened. Keep commingling finances and fucking a cheater and you’re golden until you get sick or a woman with $ comes along.

      He divorced YOU.

      No I divorced HIM. Guess he didn’t tell her I was the one who filed. See, he lies about everything.

      No revenge is better than having the Limited out of my life. That’s not karma. It’s what happens when they trust each other.

  • Dancing Dick’s new squeeze is in for loads of fun. When she finds out he whacks off at teens/web cam hoes/prostitutes- she’s gonna get the surprise of her life.

    I don’t envy the woman at all.

  • Cheaters do not care about what chumps say, think or do. That’s what makes them cheaters. The two cheaters can now worship and adore each other- till that dries up too.

  • I will admit that I did two acts of revenge on the ex.

    First one, I wrote a letter to his new gf. Ex was a covert narcissist. Very very charming and he had perfected his love bombing with me. Specifically targeted single moms who homeschool.
    She is me 2.0.
    When I left in August after dd5 he did the usual Hoover complete with thousands of text voicemail and flowers cycling through rage charm and pity. I was a wreck. I still loved him.but he was too risky for my children and I to be associated with (a lot of drunk driving with his children whenever we were broken up) and he would always find new women to try and triangulate me with. He hoovered for 2 weeks then stopped with a final message that “in the future don’t run out on people.” Which killed me because HE made zero changes in his life and it was always his assholiness that caused me to leave.
    A week after I left I saw him in town walked down main street with new woman and her 2 kids eating ice cream from a store he never allowed me to go to…. I was devastated and things got very dark in my life.
    I reached out to his ex wife during this time because I thought I was going crazy and she confirmed that everything he put me through and did to me he did to her first but for 11 years. They have two children together who I had been raising as my step sons and I missed them, so we started spending time together. In hindsight , bad idea because you can’t go no contact with him and then have his children verbal diarrhea to you everything that is going on in his life.
    So I got the pleasure of hearing his courtship with new gf and they were moving FAST and he had her doing all the same stuff as I had. I was killing me to watch him start to abuse her.
    Because with him, he was so intense and loving in the beginning and you are so “high” from it that you completely ignore all red flags.
    So I wrote her a letter to warn her what he is. I wrote what stories he would tell her, his go-to compliments, his future faking, how he is a shitty father and step father with examples and stories about his friends, that he his an alcoholic he is cheap and how he will get her to have sex with no condom and that i was currently being tested for stds. I even included time stamped texts from 1 week before their ice cream date where he told me he wanted to marry me, I was the love of his life etc.
    She never responded but I saw her driving in town the next morning and She looked distraught. I was also smart enough to write that if she chose to show him the letter to sit back and watch him plan his revenge on me. So at least I tied his hands there.
    But. Somehow he managed to explain it all away and the gf stayed . His ex wife though the letter nailed him to a tee, however I felt bad because he kept ranting to her about the letter. She told him to fuck off.
    I remember his ex would text him stuff when they were fighting about the kids, like that time he slept with her best friend while she had flown out to see her dying gramps and I questioned him whether it was true. He had the typical cheater response and at the time I spackled but in hindsight by texting that knowing I would read it, his ex wife was leaving a trail of breadcrumbs showing me his character and in her own way, trying to warn me.
    Sadly, new gf is even chumpier than I was cause she is still with him and they even just took all the kids on a vacation to great wolf lodge which in wrote in the letter was his go-to future faking move.
    She will have to learn the hard way about him like I did.
    Sadly his ex wife and I parted ways and i went no contact with her. I miss her but am feeling better now that I don’t hear updates on his fucked up life.

    #2 – this was my lowest point and I am not proud of this one but it made me gleeful for about a week and then I shook my head and got my shit together.
    It was after I wrote the letter to new gf and he was away hunting up north. I “somehow ” gained access to all his accounts – Facebook, email, messenger and low and behold all his dating sites he claimed he did my use – POF,, singleparentsmeetup you name it he had an account.
    The problem with this access is that I got a crystal clear snapshot of what he had been doing during our breakups. My therapist said that he was a very clever manipulator during our breakups because he would present to me as heartbroken, remorseful, loves me and will change, but secretly hooking up with many women and bragging about it to his buddies. It made me sick to my stomach.
    But it was also healing in that I could see who he truly was and that he wasn’t worthy.
    Then I was raging . I had never been so angry in my life. I was also going through the multi step process of being tested for stds and I wanted to destroy him.
    So I signed on to his POF account and fucked around. Changed his pictures to his ugliest, most unflattering pics and changed his bio to the truth “looking for a kind nice woman to clean my house and raise my kids put up with my shit and while I sit around in my underwear watching The Young and the Restless and have sex on demand……”
    My motto during that time was “you wanna fuck with me? I will fuck you up twice as bad.” It was a bad place. His ex and I got a good laugh about it and I left it up for about a week while he was gone. I figured someone at his work would enlighten him or maybe on of his new gf friends would see it. Who knows.
    But after a week I gave myself a shake and thought “thus doesn’t make me happy, and it’s bringing me down to his level.”
    So, I deleted everything. Deleted all his accounts for EVERYTHING.
    HE came home from hunting and again, approached his ex wife telling her to mind her business, again she told him to get a life and fuck off that she didnt know what he was talking about (because technically she had nothing to do.with it) and that was it. My slice of revenge but that one left me ashamed and even more hurt knowing that he played me and all his so called friend and family knew. It made me pretty angry.

    I am four months post dday. Some days are better than others. I find myself a lot of triggers that happen when I think I’m doing ok but then send me in a tailspin for a bit. But maybe it’s also the time if year.

    • Wolf Lodge? Near the Dells? I think you might live near me. I also just joined a single parents and divorced adults meetup. I will have to on guard against creeps as they probably flock to those kinds of places looking for potentially vulnerable targets. Hopefully the outdoor meetup group is a better crowd as I like the people I have met through that one.

      • I believe there are multiple Great Wolf Lodges – I think it’s kind of a chain as a former coworker was telling me about one in Ohio and not in the Dells. I live about 2+ hours from the Dells.

      • Funny. The cheater playbook includes a water park outing. Early in our relationship Dr. Crazy took me and my kids to Great Wolf in the Dells too, booking 2 rooms so everything would be proper. He made a lot of effort to show that even at his advanced age, he could be a good father to my young kids. I should’ve paid more attention to the relationship he had with his own kids.

        • Yes. We are in Ontario so it’s the Great wolf lodge in Niagara Falls.

          I liked your comment about observing how he treated his own children. This was a big red flag I should have NOT spackled. Ex had 2 sons and presented as a very involved single father. But it was all a show. His favourite was “taking them fishing.” But in reality he made them fight over one fishing rod, never helped them with anything and sat in the boat on his phone talking to me completely ignoring the kids.

          At first he was really attentive to my kids but after we moved in, his relationship with them nosedived. He started issuing ultimatums to be about my 3 year old sons “whining”. I went from being the best mother he’s ever seen to being a mother who needs to “step it up.” However all of the whining were instances he instigated with my son provoking anxiety. According to him 3 year old children should NOT be getting out of bed at night for a pee in the toilet and it was really stressing him out. (Okaaay)

          Now his oldest son had ADHD and ODD and was 11 yo. Had a ton of behavioural problems that ex never learned how to manage because he didn’t “like to read” about it. So it all fell to me. Sorry but being told to fuck off 20 x a day by an 11 year old in front of my children is unacceptable. This child was suspended multiple times at school for bullying and calling female teachers a c*nt . At his last suspension the ex and I were separated and I wasn’t there to handle things. So he marched to the school and dragged him home and put him in a headlock and forcibly shaved his head. Told him: “if you want to act like a delinquient you are going to look like a delinquient. ” And ex BRAGGED about this!

          This ex was a real piece of work and very damaging to his children (and to me and all his other ex gfs). Luckily I escaped with my children before their lives were impacted too deeply….

    • I had been living with a guy who had perfected the “wounded dove” persona and preyed specifically on plus-sized codependent women. He used to sabotage my weight loss, saying if I got any skinnier he’d have to be a better boyfriend. (So you’re saying that I deserve to be treated like garbage because I am FAT?) I broke up with him and a few weeks later he is moving in with a nurse and her two pre-teen daughters. He had saved his email password on my computer, so I could see their exchanges of several months and that she was signing her name Mrs. Hislastname. I sent her a good-faith note, telling her what he was really like to live with, a copy of his active dating profile on a plus-sized booty call site, told her that he proposed marriage to me just four months after knowing me (as he had done the same for her), and while I didn’t know their dating timeline, we were still sharing a bed less than a month before they moved in together. I don’t know what he told her, or if she knew and didn’t care that she was the OW, but it didn’t work out as I expected. I lost all of the mutual friends and was painted as the crazy vindictive ex-girlfriend. I like to think that my motivation was to prevent another woman (and her kids) from suffering from this ass, but maybe it was revenge? They were married a year after we broke up and are apparently still together. Bless their hearts.

  • It wouldn’t matter if I went all out for revenge. I did that early on by telling her what she has as well as telling her parents. There still together. She won’t let go. She is completely dependent on him. I guess a five year affair doesn’t matter to some people. It does to me though. I got played plain and simple, but I won because I no longer have to deal with the blameshifting, mindfuckery, gaslighting, and double life of cheating.

  • I agree that they will fuck up their own lives so no revenge needed. x doesn’t feel guilt for the evil things he does. On the other hand, being a normal person, I would feel guilty knowing my actions weren’t right even if he deserved it. I just want him to stay out of my life and will not do anything to draw him back in. My taking the high road and time have shown the lies he told about me to be untrue.

  • I had a rough time with this one this Christmas, not for myself but my S20. So Son was angry because we received a card from someone in his family addressed to EX and family and we have not seen or talked to him in 2 years. We do know he is getting married really soon so someone other than OW because my son has to see OW and her new husband at S20’s job from time to time.

    So because EX is blocked from our social media, S20 wanted to post on EX’s mothers page a few “TRUTHS” about his father and what he did and let the family know we are not together. We know that EX is blaming the whole mess on me (even a secret affair) but I frankly do not care, after 2 years, I am more angry about the pain my sons are in and the financial mess he made of my life. He does not contributed one penny to their schooling and managed to take the funds we had saved for college with him (long story and a good con).

    S20 told me it is not my right to police what he post about his dad. I keep reminding him that even with the financial problems, we win. We have each other. It is so hard to watch. He went to a local community college for 2 years so the cost was something I could handle working 3 jobs (my other son is there too!) but in two weeks he is going away to a university and I think the anger comes from guilt at what I am doing to help him, plus he feels like he is leaving me and his brother. He is so protective of us. I do not know how to let him know it is ok, I am going to be ok.

    He just thinks getting some of the truth out there would help the anger. I think this is a very common but someone said it so good previously we are not equipped to fight at their level. They always win. When you wrestle in the mud with the pig, the pig likes it.

    • You’re a good mum! I let the kids know that they are my pride and joy, and working hard for their education is really an important priority for me–it’s what my money is for. No guilt!
      Acting out publicly in anger always back-fires. It stokes narcissistic rage that is destructive to innocent people. For example, their dad will find a way to blame YOU for your sons’ anger, and his dysfunctional family members will agree that YOU must have done something to alienate the kids. I mean, the gall! But the reality is, the worst thing you can do to a cheater, while simultaneously being the best thing for YOU–and this goes for the kids–is to ignore them, or, if mandatory, to go gray rock superficial customer service polite. Just a fake smile, get business done, and get out. IF he has to be in contact. He can control the contact that way.

  • As most of you know my Cheaterturd killed himself less than a year after I kicked him,out and his final OW got Stage 3breast cancer shortly thereafter (at age 34), chemo-double mastectomy,etc and is alone now. If you want to think karma showed up for both of them you could. Does it make my pain or remaining issues any easier, no, not really. I still bear the scars of the abuse he heaped on me, I still have dreams about him where he is alive again and tormenting me. I’m trying to just rebuild a good life for myself but his demise didn’t bring me much relief other than forced permanent NC. Revenge is a fools errand, don’t take it on.

    • I don’t know Beachgirl, if my ex were dead that would bring me alot of peace. I would know he couldn’t come for me anymore. He nearly killed me before I got him out of my home. If you haven’t tried it, I suggest EMDR therapy, when I was sure I’d never reach a balanced place, EMDR made a big difference. I will never be the same, but who is after trauma? I hope you will try it. Jedi Hugs!

      • Everyone’s experience is differentDatdamwuf. My ex was only 40, and I derive no pleasure from the pain his parents and siblings went thru because of his death. And despite what he did to me, I did love him. Even though we all say these cheaters never change there was still time for him to turn his life around (without me in it of course) so the fact that he took such a sad way out is tragic. My pain and PTSD is still here, my nightmares are still here and I still am psychologically damaged by the reality that my life was a lie. Add into it the trauma of him dying so young and it really isn’t something I would wish on anyone. Sounds like the pain you suffered was horrible, I’m so sorry and I send you much love and prayers for healing.

        • My X1 killed himself too. Our young adult children were devastated. I was too. It was a very messy and protracted series of events. To this day we all wonder if OWife, a horrible nut case herself, set the stage, so to speak.

          You can’t be human without feeling a deep loss over someone you had been close to.

          • My ex may or may not have committed suicide, but he killed himself all the same. Really fair people should not tan themselves for hours a day, for decades. I heard for years about how I’d look better if I were tanned. No thanks, I had a family history of skin cancer. He had to look fabulous and developed malignant melanoma. The treatment caused neuropathy, which led to opioid abuse, which led to alienating everyone who ever gave a damn, but it did not stop the cancer from spreading. I was told that he passed just a day after the doctors told him there was nothing more that they could do, and he insisted on going home. Possibly to find his stash of drugs. He was 57.

            By then I’d been gone for years, so I didn’t feel so deep a loss. I felt for his squandered potential. What a pity it was to die alone on Valentine’s Day Eve. I also felt safe again and free to live outside the shadows without fear of stalking. It was a mixed bag of sadness and joy.

  • During our brief attempt at reconciliation when I had a one on one with the MC I stated that the best revenge I could get on both of them would be to let them have each other. The problem is that I didn’t really want revenge, I wanted him to come to his senses and start making better choices for himself and for his family. Alas, that didn’t happen. Sometimes I get really mad, usually when I am confronted with the continued existence of Schmoopie in his life in ways I can’t ignore. During those moments I dream of the Karma bus striking them down. Whenever I see actual evidence of Karma sneaking up on ex (no buses, more subtle than that), however, it doesn’t make me happy, it makes me sad. I don’t want him to be happy with her. I don’t want bad behavior to be rewarded for either of them. I don’t really want him to be miserable either, however. The thing is, he had, and realistically still has, so many reasons to be happy and he just isn’t and it’s sad. Why should I care if he ends up miserable as a result of his own stupidity or his inability to count his blessings? Is there something wrong with me for feeling compassion for someone who did me so much wrong? Maybe it is just that he has been treating me and the kids better since he left, not in a fake remorse please take me back kind of way, just a not treating us like dirt kind of way. Maybe that is why I don’t want revenge because he isn’t all bad. I still want Schmoopie to go away, however so he can go find a girlfriend who isn’t a selfish self centered slut who I can befriend and who might actually help him to be happy, but I have no control over that. Sigh. I am not very good at this whole meh thing.

  • Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves,
    but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written,
    VENGEANCE IS MINE; I WILL REPAY,” saith the Lord.

    —Romans 12:19 (King James Bible)

  • I don’t think that there is satisfying, legal, ethical revenge for the lying, the cheating, the abuse. And I respectfully disagree with the notion that ‘Living well is the best revenge.’ It’s not. Living well is just a plain good idea, no matter what the situation, but it’s not revenge. My idea of revenge is watching jerks (who have done us wrong) shoot themselves in the foot. I haven’t seen this happen, especially with my ex-boyfriend. (I don’t know whether he physically cheated on me, so unlike my ex-husband, he might technically fall into the group of cheaters most chumps here describe. I am still devastated by my ex-boyfriend lying to me, invalidating me, disrespecting me, and frequently looking for my replacement in the years we dated.) I think that my ex-boyfriend is probably much happier with woman from work than he was with me. Both times he dumped me, out of the blue, never mentioning that there was a problem in our relationship, even when I calmly asked him, he told me, ‘I just want to be happy. I want to run away from you!’ I guess that I should be happy that I am no longer with someone who is ‘nice’ most of the time but treats me like crap some of the time and does not love me. It hurts like crazy, though, to think that Mr. Nice Guy (that’s what virtually everyone believes) treats my replacement like a princess while I struggle alone to Get a (Healthy, Happy) Life and help my kids get one, too.

    • RockStarWife

      No one gets to define who you are as a person. Not your X or your Asshole boyfriend. Having been fucked over for 41 years by a calculating evil person that was an illusion I know my worth was demomished repeatedly.

      Knowing your value comes not from abusive toxic people; it comes from within. That is how you take back your power.

      • Doing Me,

        Thanks for writing. I’m impressed that you spent 41 years with calculating evil person and seem to be holding up well in spite of the ‘extended prison term for good behavior!’ I agree that it is important to base your self-worth on your self-evaluation, not others’ evaluation of your worth.

        I’m really, really tired of being attached to what I think are really messed up, hostile men. Perhaps eventually I will realize that it is better to be alone than with narcissistic, borderline, sociopathic, law-breaking, lying, cheating, cruel guys masquerading as decent human partners. At least I don’t cheat on myself, gaslight myself, and insult myself out loud!

  • I’m still too new to it all. I’m not ready to give up the revenge fantasies. Maybe after I get a finalized divorce I will think differently.

    • I’m not new to this, Zell, and I too think I’m good with my revenge fantasies. I’m 4 years out from divorce and 5 years from second dday. Even with a signed divorce decree, those pesky little itty bitty not-so-bothersome fantasies continue to circle around in my head. Why? Well because unfortunately I bred with a fuckwit and my children are now his tools to usand abuse.

      I’ve reached my meh and yet I’m happy keeping those revenge fanstasies alive, thank you very much! Are keeping me from living a pretty darn good life? Not one bit! 😉

    • I’m not new to this, Zell, and I too think I’m good with my revenge fantasies. I’m 4 years out from divorce and 5 years from second dday. Even with a signed divorce decree, those pesky little itty bitty not-so-bothersome fantasies continue to circle around in my head. Why? Well because unfortunately I bred with a fuckwit and my children are now his tools to usand abuse.

      I’ve reached my meh and yet I’m happy keeping those revenge fanstasies alive, thank you very much! Are they keeping me from living a pretty darn good life? Not one bit! 😉

  • I found out homeslice and the ex of 4 months are getting married in the spring. He was engaged while we were married and is getting married at a hotel we’ve stayed at together. I was shocked, but remembered that I am giving him more credit than he deserves. I have to remind myself of the person he is versus the person I thought he was. I remind myself of the hell the last year was as I played the pick me dance, got tested for STDs, tried to make him love me by throwing out any values I had just so he’d want me. NEVER AGAIN!!
    I think it gets easier once we learn to see them for the people they are….. self serving, having a fear of being alone, and needing constant validation. Who wants that job? It’s exhausting….

    • Lost220DW,

      So true! Good for you that you left a dead end job of validator and attention giver. I agree it’s not only exhausting it’s bad for your mental, physical and spiritual health.

      Only ending the relationship and going No Contact gives you healing, vitality and perspective. This leads to increased self-worth, self-love and setting/enforcing better boundaries.

      No matter what I did over 34 years, he needed more and I was never good enough. It’s wonderful to wake up every day and know I’m enough, feel integrated and healthy. No looking back…

  • From the outside looking in, it may seem like their life is consequence free. It’s not. The first, and most obvious consequence is that they have lost a wonderful person, who always had their back, and with integrity from their life. The other consequences aren’t so obvious, and you may never find out about them, but they are there. I was very fortunate that my in laws are true Christians and follow the word. They have never turned against me and he and his whore were not allowed in their home until the divorce was final (10 months because he contested it). The mere fact that he was contesting our divorce shows some small proof he was starting on his journey of consequences. He is now with a woman who is completely incapable of ever holding anything more than a minimum wage paying job to my (80,000 a year earning potential in my former career field). And he loved all the nice things that both of our salaries bought him. He has never liked living in apartment but he cannot afford the rent on a home and his credit is now shit so he cannot buy his own home. We used to have a beautiful 2400 sq ft home. He stays with her, but he is miserable, constantly taking overseas jobs and leaving her behind in the States. What’s more, they have cheated on each other repeatedly. I didn’t even go looking for this information, it fell in my lap. However, it “looked” like they had the perfect life until some gems of knowledge landed at my front door. He has been trying to get me to come to where he is now working. Ya know, so I can fill up the side chick position. Trust that no matter how awesome you think their life looks, stay NC. Their lives are not nearly as sparkly as their impression management may show. Focus on making your own life amazing. Make it so amazing that when you do hear from time to time how shitty their lives are, you won’t even care. Go back to school for the less stress career field you always wanted to be in. Go for that amazing job. Start new hobbies. Start saving and take those overseas dream vacations (I’m getting ready for an Ireland trip in a year and a half). Travel the states, buy that RV. Get out and join a hiking, bikeriding, motorcycle group. Whatever tickles your fancy. Learn to knit or crochet. Learn to build or refurbish furniture. Go do the best you that you can. Focusing on them takes the focus off of you. Haven’t we all done enough of that when we were married to these freaks. God knows I jumped through so many hoops trying to make someone happy who was NEVER going to be happy for long. Now Shrek has that job and I’m free. This took me about 8 months to realize on my own. Those 8 months I can never get back, but I refuse to waste another second worrying about his come uppings. Today, I’m in school full time with a GPA of 3.4. I’ve met some intelligent and very interesting new people. I absolutely love my life. Once I graduate and do my one year internship, it’s only going to get better. Over 20 years ago, I lived in Europe for about 2 years. It is my dream to go back for about 4-5 years and see the sights I missed the first time around. And now, he cannot get in my way.

    • And I forgot to mention that Shrek even knew he contested the divorce and stayed with him anyway. No way in hell would I stay with a man who made it so clear he wanted someone else. So the APs get their consequences too. She thought, because he lied to her, that he left me for her. I never wasted my time correcting him to her. Two cheaters deserve each other. But somewhere along the way, when he was contesting the divorce she had to have figured out I packed his shit for him and held the door open.
      Thank you both. I wish someone would have told me what took me so long to figure out for myself. Don’t waste energy on them. Is it unfair, absolutely. But life isn’t fair. We have choices, dwell on the unfairness, or move forward and start rebuilding. I’m NOT saying not to grieve. That’s different. Grieve and don’t beat yourself up over it, but redirect that rage at the unfairness that is life on rebuilding your life.

  • I love the idea of revenge but I never carried anything out. I figure he has fucked himself in the head with what he has done to his life. Actually, no-contact has fucked with his head quite a bit. I’m pretty sure it’s torturing him. It has been key to my restoring my sanity.

  • This post hits home for me, Thought many times of wanting to get revenge, I am starting to think that she is doing a good job of screwing up her own life and her relationships like the one with our son that she doesn’t need my help in that department. But I certainly can understand the desire for revenge.

  • I think the LW’s sentiments are understandable, and pass with time. I am so happy that I no longer agony shop at CheaterMart. I no longer have the loyalty card on my keychain. It’s a good place to be. Only time and NC Discipline brought me here, though, and not acting on any revenge fantasy.

    We want to believe there is Karma. Waiting around for it wastes living our own new lives. I have waited longer than my marriage itself, and all this does is keep Chumps in limbo. I sometimes an curious. I hear things through the grapevine, dribs and drabs that Cheater is wandering a trail of lawsuits and failed relationships, he has circled back to the Sluterus but not happily in a mostly financial manuever. He lives in a series of shittier apartments. I bought some secondhand home reno supplies in the street next to where I know my ex-stepdaughter for whom I was a primary caregiver for three years lives with her bio mom because Daddy was too occupied with the Sluterus to maintain custody. It was weird. It will always be fuckin’ weird knowing I have collateral damage and loss that we did not derserve or ask for. But I didn’t cause it and I can’t fix it. So I cut off the grapevine, and I’m better for it.

    I think for a moment, What IF? What if the elderly father in Wales that Cold Slab O’Meat cared for nothing but as an ATM has died and he’s now got hundreds of thousands in inheritance? What is he’s hit the lottery? What if he and Sluterus and Baby Diddykins and SD are on a Jamaicam beach right now? How exactly the fuck does that even affect me? It doesn’t. That relationship is over. It doesn’t make the dishes in my sink cleaner. It doesn’t take my daughter to viola lessons. It doesn’t meet or fail my work deadlines. It doesn’t walk my dog.

    THIS. HERE. My Family, My Friends,My Pile of Sticks Called Home. My frighteningly large student loans, my balding tires, my currently in chaos kitchen remodel. This is what is left. And it’s good. It’s honest. It has the best of intentions and integrity. It’s love is real and true. It requires every bit of my energy and mental real estate to keep rolling. It’s enough.

      • Yep! Luziana is one of my favorite thinkers here, and you, too, NO-mah!

        Those obsessions don’t walk the dog. I love it. I will be chewing in that for a few hours tonight.

          • Thank you all. For your insights too. One of the last times I spoke without Chumpiness to Cold Slab was 2014 when he attempted to blame me because he had failed to pack any Christmas decorations in his rush to be with Sweet Baby Neck Tattoos. And SD was crying because we had a beautiful tree on Facebook and they had nothing. Well, their crappy WalMart contributions were packed neatly in the shed. But it was my fault for not delivering them to the Extramarital Fuck Shack. Whose address I did not have and had told him I had no use for.

            I told him, ‘Your daughter is crying over more than ornaments. You yanked her from her home with zero warning and you’ve been living your life as a giant, reckless trajectory of harm. That’s YOU. That’s your choice. Come get her things and stop blaming me for the pain you’re causing to a wholle family you blew up.

            I refuse to be a trajectory of harm. There is no such thing as a rational happiness that requires devastated children as it’s price. NONE.

  • I sent copies of everything I sent to police to his wife (the one he said he’d left. Not). Result? She called a friend of hers in the police force and had him hassle me and threaten to arrest me. She got a rude awakening.

    That said. Do NOT do it. Really not worth it

  • Like a lot of people here i harboured the revenge fantasy’s for a long time. It just messes with your head and drains your sanity. I thought if so many ways to get back at them, to split them up.

    NC made me come to my senses. She was still consuming me even at a distance.

    So I let it go. Know what narcs hate more than anything? You no longer caring about what they do or who they are with.

    Think about it…

  • A long way out from Dday and divorce. Never did seek revenge, had plenty of fantasies though. Realized I had better get busy living, and it needn’t be grand, just my own thing. Best decision I ever made was to go NO CONTACT. X was mental, went scorched earth, ruined me financially, married AP, and is repeating the same behaviors that brought him success (snark font here) in our twenty eight years together. No better Karma than that. Happy Holidays to CL, and CN, and much love to our families who love and support us.

  • I had many ideas about exacting revenge on my Ex. I had many laughs and good scheming sessions over cocktails with my friends about how to get revenge. But none were ever followed through. For one I believe Karma will get him in the end. Secondly, he’s such a Narc that I was sure he would turn anything vengeful that I did back on me to try to make me look crazy. And finally, I had been and still am the sane parent. No reason to show the kids that I would stoop to their crazy dad’s level. There’s no harm in fantasizing about revenge, but in my opinion, its just not worth it.

    • Me too….I salved my hurting soul with thoughts of revenge back when he was running with Susan of Seattle. If I could have gotten away with spray painting “I fuck married men” on her BMW, I would have done it, but I just KNEW that I would get caught. She eventually married the fiance she cheated on when she was with my nowdeadcheater and I imagined sending her a really “nice” card telling her that I would LOVE to come to her wedding and talk to ALL her friends and family and tell them all the cute stories of how we met…that was pretty tempting, but in the end I did none of it.

      I later stalked her FB page and she had a “like” for a medical practice which specialized in pregnant women with substance abuse issues. eek. She did have 2 kids shortly after she broke up with my then-husband and married her guy. I certainly didn’t wish THAT on anyone.

      Im glad now that I didn’t make a big spectacle of it all. My daughter graduated from Univ last week and we were able to keep the “so sad her father is dead, he would have liked to have seen this” face up…never mind he left us all when she was a little girl while he fucked whores. I paid for her graduation lunch with money from his substantial life insurance policy.

      In the end, I did as well as possible and Im glad I didn’t try to exact public revenge. (Oh I did text OW after he died and very casually mentioned his death…I hope she cried for a month)

      • Unicornnomore – here’s a good spray painting story. While my now Ex and I were in wreckonciliation, I drove past the howorker’s house on the way to work one morning. Her house faced a busy road with a wooden fence surrounding the back yard. There was spray paint all over that fence – whore, slut, bitch, home wrecker, c**t, etc. As I circled around the block, there was spray paint on her house, all over her sidewalks, and all over her car. Not only had the car been spray painted with nasty words, both windshields had been smashed and all four tires flattened. I hate to say it but I smiled. You know – that smile that the Grinch smiles when he realizes how to take Christmas away from the Whos in Whoville. Turns out that not only was the howorker carrying on with my EX, she was also cheating on her husband with another coworker! When that coworker’s wife got wind of the affair she went ballistic with spray paint. She was accused and had to pay a fine. My ex had to take the howorker to his garage so her car could get fixed, had to drive her to and from work for two weeks while it was in the shop and even went over and helped her power wash everything off of her house. Such a nice guy. All the while his marriage is falling apart. Can’t believe I was such a chump! At least at that point I had contacted a lawyer and was saving money to get out. I often thought a thank you was due the spray painter, but never followed through.

  • I made the mistake of talking too much when I separated. The first two years I was so shattered, that I let my XH call me and email me. I can see so clearly now, but at that time I was oblivious, that he was screwing with my head. He would tell me about his conquests and brag that he was sleeping with up to 3 women in the same time period. He would tell me graphic details and I don’t know why, but I listened. Then I would call a friend and through my tears, tell them what he had said. If someone asked me how I was, I was just a likely to also tell them the sordid details. Finally, I went NC (didn’t know of chump lady back then, just knew I was drowning and had to save myself). Once I was NC, the fog lifted. I was disgusted with myself that I had listened to the garbage coming from him and upset that I had passed it on. I think I just wanted everyone to hate him like I did.

    Now, I have no idea what he is doing and I don’t want to know. I am 6 years out, 4 years of NC and 2 years divorced. I wish I hadn’t let him into my head and I wish I hadn’t told others. It really was demeaning. So, Chump Lady is giving good advice to not involve oneself in the sordid details. It really doesn’t help you get past things. NC is what will get you where you need to be. Then you will find that better life that you deserve.

  • I need help with this topic. I so badly want to inform the wife that the reason her marriage is breaking up is b/c of my STBX. I don’t know her, she lives in another state – I just feel sorry for her; she’s a stay at home mom who could benefit from this knowledge.

    But my intentions are also revengeful, perhaps more so. And I know it could really mess up my legal process let alone co-parenting and all that. And it could mess her up in ways I don’t know.

    My brain spends too much time thinking about this.

    • Please tell her from the goodness of your heart. Don’t withhold that valuable information. The only reason I get any alimony is because adultery is stated as the cause of my divorce!!! She & kids need to know the truth for several reasons!

    • I’d say that if she doesn’t know, you’re doing her a favor to tell her. Keep it BIFF: Brief, Informative, Factual, and Friendly – don’t start getting dramatic about what sort of a horrible person so-and-so is, just give the facts.

      • Absolutely. As a SAHM myself, confirmation of his cheating could keep me out of poverty. Not to mention warn me not to have sex with him any more because of STDs.
        I agree with BIFF. Tell her. You may save her life.

        • Completely agree! Tell her, and give her a copy of the evidence. How could telling the truth “mess up your legal process” since you have evidence you are being truthful, and your reason for telling her is to help her protect her physical and financial health? And your co-parenting is already not optimal if you’re posting here, telling her is not going to meaningfully change your situation.

          You could really save her life by telling. I prayed for so long for proof in my own situation.

  • Yeah I wanted revenge too. There is justice for us chumps. I fantasized about anonymously sending all the ugly, humiliating, disgusting, porngraphic affair evidence to all my cheater’s family and friends. Then I and my cheater were contacted by the angry wife of one of her affair partners. Yup she found my cheater’s nude selfies in her husband and she watched, collected, and researched for nearly 3 months. After she learned everything about my cheater she dropped the bomb. Lol

  • Revenge? No need. Her failure is already in progress and it will give some background entertainment through this process as I build on from her. More and more I am thinking: can someone pass the popcorn?

  • As much as I want to believe karma will come around and smack him in the ass, I don’t trust it. Revenge just makes me feel like a heel and shows my nasty side. I have been planned so many actions in my head but have acted on none. I know I would feel like a schmuch and give him reason to point to why he couldn’t live with me anymore. I think a couple of my nastiness emails did make it impossible for reconciliation. That is probably a good thing. In my quieter sadder moments I wonder if I drove the stake through his heart. Then I remind myself he was lying and cheating months before I found don’t think there was a heart there-at least not for the family he betrayed. The holidays are hard and I have been quite sad. This too shall pass and I will have an opportunity to live a different life. It is up to me to create something I love. Be well my friends! Hugs during this difficult time.

  • I’ve never thought of revenge. Going NC and being out of reach is the best. Why hand out Kibbles to the hungry dog pound?

  • Never make a fool out of yourself over a fucktard. They always show themselves for what they are. The more cool and in control you come across when their shit hits the fan, the better you look for it. If you join in the crazy, you associate yourself with it and tarnish your own reputation. Distance, distance, distance. And then act just as shocked and surprised as anybody when it all blows up in their face. Don’t drag yourself down to their level, you’re better than that.

  • There was no need for revenge with cheater ex, he took care of that in a manner far exceeding anything I could have imagined.

    I had only gotten as far as wishing he would go away and leave me alone with all his schemes to enact revenge on ME.

    Then he pulled off the grand slam of revenge. He kidnapped and murdered my 14 year old youngest son. Then he drove to a different state, 1300 + miles away, walked a mile off a major highway along with his buddy, and they both put a bullet in their brains.

    It was almost two weeks before I knew what had happened to my child.

    This probably isn’t PC, but I’m glad that he has taken his case to a higher court, so to speak, one he won’t be able to manipulate or con. I have a certain amount of satisfaction with that notion. Nothing will bring back my child, but I am relieved cheater ex is no longer around to hurt anyone else.

    The only revenge I entertained for quite a while, was to go and pee on his grave. Now?….Meh.

    I miss my boy every day, but cheater ex is exactly where he belongs.

    • Tessie your story is so heart breaking. I’m glad your ex-cheater is gone from this world forever. I wish you whatever peace you can possibly get.

    • Tessie, there is a special place in Hell for people who harm children and your ex is certainly there. I can’t even imagine your suffering, but I can understand your relief that that vile creature is out of circulation forever. Hugs to you are not enough, but please know that by coming by here you are the best warning to those who don’t know how deep evil can run. It can run to the core. Thanks, sweetie, for sharing your story as hard as it must be.

  • Saying to a hoovering Ex “What do YOU want? Don’t you have some porn to watch or lives to ruin?”

    This spiel runs through my head almost every time I see him. Someday when the CS is over and college bills are paid I’m gonna say it out loud. Until then, Meh. 🙂

    • Ha! From hindsight comes brilliant snarky comments.
      About a year after our divorce, with absolutely no contact, I received an email from my ex. The only thing he wrote was in the subject line which said:
      “Are you trying to reach me?”.
      I really really really wanted to reply:
      “If I was trying to contract you, I’d would’ve responded to one of your Craigslist ads.”

  • Not even worried about Karma ! I just want a divorce I wish nothing bad because he is the father of my children. I just want to start over and live a good life and be able to sleep at night. The thought of the lies and cheating are repulsive and he has to live with the man he is. To me he is a disgrace and like I said I get half of his pension and he is only 49. Lol so I will be getting his money for a very long time. That is enough karma for me. Wish nothing bad on anyone and you will have no worries. Just stop loving them and that is enough. The day I found out was the day I stopped loving him and respecting him. I have to worry about the children and myself not some idiot 49 year old who can’t keep his dingy in his pants.

    • This: “Wish nothing bad on anyone and you will have no worries. Just stop loving them and that is enough.“

      The only thing I would add is to walk your own authentic path and keep your focus on what’s ahead. It’s a waste of time and energy to think about the things that slither in the tall grass. Just as they are living their chosen existence, you must go on with yours. Avoid creating new regrets. Be grateful. Find peace.

        • After I caught him I told him the marriage is over it was just a matter of when. I had one child a freshman in college and the other a senior in HS. I knew that I would have to stay until I thought they were strong enough to handle that their father was a looser. It took 2 years if I didn’t wait my daughter would never have let me to go to school. I sucked it up and they were none the wiser In the meantime I was out of my mind like a trapped animal. As soon as I told the children it was better for me I hated lying to them. I explained my reasons and they understood but they felt bad. I told them I did what needed to be done. He wants me back In the worst way and that is not an option. My son said he cries all the time but he knows he is full of it and he told me don’t take him back. My daughter said its like and order on Amazon being filled order placed order filled and now we are awaiting shipment. No cancelling. Tooooo late. He lost a lot. The best was he kept on doing his thing caught him a few more times. Rediculous. Moron. I knew the moment he betrayed me I did not love him but it does take time to unravel a 23 year marraige. I’m hoping to have this settled in the next 6 months and begin this new journey. I truly believe things happen for a reason. I can’t wait to see what is ahead of me. Exciting. I have to show my children I am a strong women and to never treat people like that or allow anyone to treat you like that. This was the 1st Christmas apart it was a little tough in the morning but we talked it out and got thru it. My son is most disappointed in the man that his dad is. I think they are embarrassed and he has to live with that fact. I wish him nothing but the best I just want him out of my life. I want this over with. Long time to wait but it was worth it for the kids and for myself to get myself mentally prepared. Now I tell everyone I’m getting divorced and he is a cheater. I don’t care because I will not lie. He is a cheater.

          • I contracted HPV. So I informed the woman and her parents. Did no good. I wouldn’t change telling. Some people tell me it was revenge, but I felt she needed to know. He was furious because I told her parents. He has had NC with me since. It has been 5 months. They are going to stay together. It was a five year affair.

            • This is the worst thing that can happen to a person. I would never treat someone like that. I can’t imagine lying to someone and looking them in the face like its nothing. This man told me he loved me 5 times a day so I had no idea. All I can say is they are sick bastards and why would you want to stay with someone who does not respect you. You also start to think of all the things that they have done to you and your like what the hell was I thinking I’m excited to maybe date one day and know what it’s like to be valued because this really knocked me out. One thing I know is I value myself and that is good enough. Stay strong and know you deserve more. My mom always said make sure they love you more than you love them. He definetly loved me more. I will never give myself to anyone 100% because then they have the power to destroy you. Be strong and let her have him and just smile and know you are done with his garbage

              • I can’t understand why the betrayed want them back when they know of the infidelity. How will you ever trust them again? Or forgive or even forget? Or better yet how do you gain a life by staying?

  • I had those fantasies too, but am soooo glad I didn’t act on any of them. The whole experience, particularly the rage attacks made feel humiliated and undignified. When I made the decision to leave, I also made the decision to return to the person I used to be before D-Day, but stronger and strangely enough, more humble. I’ve directed all my energies towards making a better life for myself and for others, and that’s what makes me happy.

    BTW, my ex was a hoarder too and I totally don’t miss that!

  • I read this column too late today. Had a glass of wine and too light a lunch. Saw a social media post from my adult, former stepdaughter (FSD) showing her expensive, international Xmas trip that I was sure – correctly – X was bankrolling for FSD, FSD’s husband and OW. At a time when X is severely in arrears on alimony and refused to pay up for December. So after some unexpected home repairs, I was selling things on eBay to buy Xmas dinner. FSD is very vocal about how religious she is, so the hypocrisy was stunning. And I pointed that out publicly on social media in a very snarky manner. FSD then lectured me about how I needed to forgive and move forward and look back with fondness at our time together. And she disconnected from me. I do believe FSD had wanted me to see the post and give it my tacit approval so that she could feel OK about her participation in the trip. Although the #metoo campaign had emboldened me to speak, my advice: keep your dignity. Say it privately if you must. Mainly because, as CL says, it just gives these bad actors an excuse for their behavior. But don’t remain connected on social media with Switzerland friends and the X’s family. They want to socially pressure you to accept X’s actions. “See? We’re still friends. S/he’s fine.” Their efforts may trigger you, especially if financial or other abuse from the X is ongoing.

    • Ugh, I’m sorry your FSD is apparently acting too much like her father. Hope you are able to collect that unpaid alimony, maybe through a withholding order or garnishment, or even to get him to agree to an auto debit.

      “don’t remain connected on social media with Switzerland friends and the X’s family” = AMEN! It must be so awful to have stepchildren you need to stay away from. The Switzerlands are just the worst in the end. Hugs.

      • Thank you, Jo. My money woes are also because I had to pay my lawyer to go back to court and finalize the divorce so that our property settlement agreement (PSA) could become incorporated into a court order. X can then be held in contempt for violating the PSA. X moved to a non-Western country and his income from there that is deposited into a non-Western bank. So no garnishment. As we know, they have a lot of energy to be deceptive.

        Not that long ago, FSD used to say she was disgusted by her Dad’s actions and wanted no part of OW. However, FSD has a house husband and can’t afford these trips herself. So when X dangled the trips, FSD adopted the view that X’s cheater actions weren’t hers. And the last time I’d heard from FSD directly was over a year ago, concerning whether FSD and hubby could have a car titled partly in my name, so their values are clear enough.

        FSD did acknowledge that I’d been a wonderful stepmother to her and her siblings. Sad to see that the whole relationship has to go because I am an awkward reminder of what X and OW have done. I was supposed to come up with a new relationship – for which I am not ready – so that the adult step “kids” didn’t have to feel awkward. If I make them feel awkward, all the years of working for their benefit and staying up half the night before Xmas to wrap their little gifts count for naught.

  • Sometimes keeping quiet is better than anything you can say. Time will reveal the truth.
    My Ex is going around telling people that I cheated and I am the one still cheating. Hmm… A relative actually told me they thought that was impossible. By the way due to an accident I’m on a wheelchair and now I am attempting to take some steps with a cane. Whenever I go out someone has to be with me because I need the assistance.
    Then , I must be entertaining men at home…I wonder where they appear from!
    See, these mindfucks don’t have a brain. If they did they would think before bad-mouthing others and making themselves look bad!
    Initially I was mad. I refuse to give any thought to anything anyone has to say. I just smile but I think “This is none of your fucking business” although I will never say that out loud. I just say remember there are three sides to a story, his, mine and the truth. And I end the conversation!

  • I remember on DDay.. ‘stbx’ was out of town (guess who with) and I had a friend come over. I ranted and raved and finally said, whatever happens I will come out of this with MY dignity and MY integrity intact. And for the most part I have. Sure I’ve wanted to call him/them on their crappy behaviour and I’ve sent the odd email I wish I hadnt (they were accurate but read and NOT comprehended – I guess comprehension isnt a strong point for cheaters 224and their ho’s)

    I’d love to extract revenge, publicly shame them. Email her mom and ask if she’s proud of her 20ish year old daughter having an affair with a married man older than her dad… and do they think they’ll enjoy the wedding? For every thought of ‘that will fix you’ – the other part of my mind says they are not worth it and one day looking back and knowing that I was not petty, vengeful, bad mouthing etc etc will be my karma. Theirs? Well I wish them alllll they deserve

  • I amso glad i found you all tonight. I had a whole blackmail scheme planned for wensday . Was going to threaten to send all the texts and cards and pictures showing what a lying scumbag he is to his wife , her Mother, her daughter and all his family members. Knew this man for 8 years as a friend who always said he loved me and the most important thing to himwas that i was happy , even if it was with someone else. Never once in all those years mentioned he was currently married . Three years ago i began a serious relationship with him because i just knew in my heart that he truly loved me and that he was the only man i could trust implicitly. In April he gave me a beautiful ring and asked me to marry him. Thought it was odd that he wouldnt set a date and got very angry when i pressed him on it so i stopped. One day he leaves phone on my charger and when i took it off something told me to open it up . So i did . And lo and behold , there was his other life , He was carrying on relationships with an ex wife from another state, telling her he loved her . Another woman who he always talked bad about and said shed been trying to contact him but he was ignoring her. Then n a txt to another of his ex wives i see a mention of him hanging out in ‘the’ house’ while kim wasnt there so he wouldnt have to deal with her. Confronted him and threw him out but didnt know who kim was so iasked , wouldnt tell me . So i researched and found out she was his wife and they owned a beautiful house with a pool while i had been living in what i thought was his only house in a bad nieghborhood and no heat or air. I was gobsmacked .He is a player and he is good . He got past my walls and totally fooled me.What the FUCK is wrong with someone where they can look you right in the eye and decieve someone whos only crime is loving them ?!? I cant even fathom it . Im raging inside , I feel like ive been punched in the heart. I want revenge so badly i can taste it . But i see where NC works. I text him to ask him to meet with me and he was so grateful ( yeah, right!) and it had been hell not hearing from me . I just have a need to know WHY ? HOW COULD YOU ? But im never going to get an explanation thats honest so why bother asking. Fuck the revenge. Hes his own revenge

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