Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

What to Say to Sanctimonious Rubberneckers?

Tis the season for unsolicited advice.

Apparently, a bunch of you aren’t doing divorce right, and some well-meaning onlookers (cough…) have seen fit to point out your shortcomings.

In yesterday’s comments, “Fern” imagined a rebuttal for busy bodies:

“When you find out your spouse has been fucking strangers up the ass while you are home taking care of all the adulting, then you and I can exchange ideas about how best to spend the holidays.  Have a nice day.”

Then Tempest chimed in with her own slogans.

“Have your life blow up in a nanosecond, THEN you can give me advice.”

“Gee, I don’t remember hiring you as my life coach.”

“I don’t listen to sanctimonious jackasses.”

“Bitter is better.”

Of course, I immediately thought “FRIDAY CHALLENGE.” So your job today is to tell me what real or imagined snarky thing you would say to a sanctimonious rubbernecker. You know, those people who stand at the sidelines of your crisis gawping and Monday morning quarterbacking.

Got any choice words? Or My Meh Is Stronger Than Your Idiocy pointers?


Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Blank stare and pause after their inane feedback. And then: “There is no data to support that.” End of discussion.

    Because there is no data to support that. Next.

    • yup. that´s my approach. except with a smattering of “thank you for your feedback, but until you are in the same position as me, I´m not interested in it”

  • BusyBody: I just wish you would let me help you.

    QueenMother: What are you going to do? Kick him in the balls?

    BusyBody: (scoff): No, you. I want to help you, with your problems.


  • Enlightened one: “You have to accept the apology that was never given”.

    Me: “What the actual fuck does that even mean? How about you accept this fist bump to your forehead.”

  • Adult children: it’s been three years you should be over it by now.

    This is for life. (No contact).

    Then let’s not talk about it.

    Me: you are the one who brings it up.

    Then let’s not talk about it ever again.

  • I don’t remember asking your opinion….and if I want to hear from an asshole, I’ll fart.

  • I’m approached and asked by my relatives:

    Where does he live?

    Don’t know. Don’t care.

    Does he still have his business?

    Don’t know. Don’t care.

    • I get those questions too and I wonder why people assume I care enough to keep track of the creep almost 2 years later. So I say “don’t know, don’t care since I kicked him out in March 2016. “

    • I get that too since he’s vanished. “Don’t know where he is now, but … when he moved out, he moved in with his mistress into her grandmother’s house.”
      And frankly, why do they keep asking?

      • ‘If you want to know, you should call him. He’s at the same number.”

        That’s what finally worked on my Mom, who would periodically ask about the x and say how much she had always liked him.

      • I lost track of my cheating fiancé after we split and I enforced the No Contact rule. Then, of all people, her father wrote me a letter out of the blue and told me where she was and what she was doing with her life. I didn’t want to know, but boom, there it was. I half suspected he wanted me to make up and get back together with her. Ain’t gonna happen, my friend. He’s been stuck with a few creepy sons-in-law, but that’s what happens when you have a creepy daughter.

  • OW: it’s Time we made peace.

    DoingMe: of all the women he cheated with you are by far the ugliest whore he’s picked up and fucked in a hotel.

        • Most of the time, these numbnuts appear in the early stages….when you are physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausted. You ran 2 stop signs (because you didn’t notice them) on the way to the store in order to find something under $2.00 (because that’s all you have) because you haven’t eaten in 4 days…..and June Cleaver decides to stick her opinions into your business about “forgiveness.”

          Truth be known, Ward was probably out banging Eddie Haskell’s mom behind June’s back instead of playing golf.

          • Funny SDC. Every “perfect” family has its secrets. But I think it was June who was fooling around. Remember her on that Airplane a few years later?

          • Oh…the “Nobody’s perfect” crowd! People who say that are most likely cheaters themselves.

            Nobody is perfect…..but that doesn’t give anyone a license to cheat, lie and deceive.

    • OW: It’s time we made peace.

      You: The fact that I haven’t punched you in the face shows how peaceful I am.

  • So far, no one has mentioned needing to forgive to me. If someone bothered me about forgiving my ex-husband, I would stop talking to them. I finally got a few hold-outs to stop pestering me about how I should encourage my 18 year old to forge a relationship. That is not my job, and it is not hers. If anyone is going to reach out, it will be the cheater, and his reach out may prove to be pointless. The topic is all academic now anyway, because he is not going to reach out. I’m looking to the future.

    • Ah, yes, the subsidiary busybodies, who think it is our job to encourage our wise children (who often went NC before we did) to “forge a relationship” with their fuckwit cheater parent. As if trying to keep a marriage together single-handedly wasn’t sufficient. We must have Super Powers! We can force people to do things against their will–cheaters to keep their privates locked up behind zippers, and children to feign ignorance that one of their parents is an unredeemable ass.

      • Oh I love the folks who assume that we also lost our parenting skills in the divorce.

        • My oldest son was (still is) an incredibly headstrong, willful child. Time out? Sure, if I duct-taped him into the chair. Take away toys? He didn’t care. Nothing phased him. He threw a huge temper tantrum at Wal-Mart, destroying a display while I was trying to contain his younger siblings so I could catch him (he was three at the time). We were just out of an abusive situation, and he was still adjusting to not living in constant fear and tension. So he acted out a lot. I caught him, put his diaper, pants and shirt back on. He kicked me as hard as he could, so I grabbed his arm and gave him a swat on the rear. A lady felt compelled to tell me that her daughter only ever used time out, and that her daughter’s children were always well behaved. I was exhausted, broke, and stressed beyond belief trying to keep everything together. I didn’t respond well: “Fuck you. And fuck your daughter too.”

          • They have no idea. I once told such a woman, “You’re next.” I merely threatened a swat when something similar happened. Never mind that I didn’t know how I was going to feed the child, we were all dealing with abandonment and imminent homelessness, I had prescriptions I couldn’t fill, and had lost thirty pounds in a month. No one ever offers to help. Nope they just sit there smugly judging and interfering while you lose your damn mind. Maybe she could have said, “Let me hold your baby while you get her.”

            • I often see a parent with children having a struggle herding them along when at the store – I offer a smile and, if possible, a ‘you are amazing and doing so well juggling all of this’. I also offer a hand with a child or groceries or a car door etc.. It doesn’t cost much to show a little kindness.

      • Luckily the only person (other than my ex) who told me it was my job to get my grown children to reforge a relationship with the Edgar Suit was ex’s stripper gf. Then she “gifted” me with some advice on how to accomplish that. I told her I would consider taking parenting advice from her as soon as she got custody of her own kids which should be approximately when hell freezes over now that she has a felony drug conviction to add to her resume.

  • I don’t get a lot of that crap anymore.
    I find the idea of spending any time at all with Narkles the Clown so repugnant a suggestion to do so means you don’t know me at all. This means you either get a big laugh followed by a loudly stated “hey, everyone, this person thinks I should spend the most joyous part of the year with a Narkles the Clown, you all remember the one who cheated on me, stole my money and ignored the child we have together on his birthday so he could fuck a whore.”
    Or, If I’m feeling quiet or with a group of people who don’t know the situation I patiently educate that only God can forgive Narkles the Clown for his years of whoring, stealing from me and other transgressions. When someone sends you a photo of your spouse having sex with someone who isn’t you, look me up, I’ll be there to help you sort it all out.”

    Don’t be afraid to explain exactly why they should shut the fuck up. Had to see your spouse profess their love to someone else? Walked in on the person you gave your heart to having sex with another? Had to paternity test your children? Figured out you have to work into your 80’s to make up for the marital assets she spent on her other man? Had to explain to your children the reason you are being treated for cancer because daddy couldn’t keep it in his pants?

    Find your righteousness. Lay it out there. Don’t be afraid or embarrassed. Don’t feel the shame your unfaithful spouse should be feeling. Tell the truth. That’s how we change the narrative.

    • “When someone sends you a photo of your spouse having sex with someone who isn’t you, look me up, I’ll be there to help you sort it all out.” LOVE IT!!! I kind of wanna put this on my Christmas cards to Certain People…. wrong?

    • Alloutofkibbles: Hell to the yes! I am tired of being told what I can say, how I can feel, and how I should respond to 23 years of pure bullshit. I have told my 2 teenage children the Truth..not the gory details of course, but the facts. I don’t want them wandering if it was their fault, what was really going on or hearing half truths and rumors. They don’t deserve that. Their dad made the choice to lie cheat steal and throw momma under the bus because he is the center of his own universe. I hope that by seeing just some of the pain and devastation his choices have caused they will never treat or be treated this way. The system is designed by and for cheaters. I don’t feel sugar coating the poison makes it any easier to swallow and it is just as deadly in the end. I have based my life on protecting and educating my kids so they can truly have a better life than me. They understand respect and trust are earned and forgiveness is granted to folks that have met their requirements.. confession, atonement, repentance..etc.. and it is their choice either way…I tell people that say stupid shit to me “ok..would you want this done to you or your child?” ” Would you want this creeper freak living next door to you or dating one of yours?” Then shut the hell up and keep your opinion/ advice to yourself…

      • “The system is designed by and for cheaters.”
        I said this to the mofo just last night. No matter how hard I try, I cannot make him acknowledge the damage he has caused and continues to cause. My kids are my life. They are 17, 15 and 13. While he puts his dick and his whores first, I am always with the kids at a ballgame, a practice, the science fair, a play, parent-teacher conference, doing homework, fixing meals, etc., etc…. Someone has to be the adult!
        Now he wants to have the kids 50% of the time. Too bad the kids don’t want to see him. They know what he has done. They have to listen to him tell them that affairs are common, couples grow apart, blah blah blah. They are so angry with him. I am furious and scared at the same time. He will get what he wants, and I’ll be punished. It makes absolutely no sense. I will be in for a fight if I can’t get him to back the fuck off. I am blessed to have kids who are happy, active, social straight A students. Now he wants to fuck this up for them. He first started screwing coworkers in 2010 (I have no doubt he’s been doing this to me for the last 18 years, I just don’t have proof.) I, of course, gave him a second chance. He was going to spend the rest of his life making it up to me, haha. Well, that was hard for him because he has finally found his soulmate. He is so in love with her, even though he still sexts the first slut. Such a nightmare. My goal is to keep the kids on the right path. My youngest is in 8th grade. If we can make it 4 1/2 years with some peace, it’ll be a miracle.
        When I am told to forgive him if I want to find peace, I ask them if they have experienced what my children and I are are experiencing. When they say no, I tell them that they have no idea how it feels. I cannot forgive someone who puts slut coworkers ahead of his “wife” and children, over and over again then tells the children that affairs are common. I want him to burn in Hell, I don’t want to fucking forgive!

        • Applause and hugs to you Overwhelmed. Those idiots should be helping you. Words are cheap.

    • Unless you have been through what we have, you really have no clue. People mean well but they really don’t understand AND they don’t understand that if you have kids with the cheater, they are “the gift that keeps on giving” because until the kids turn 18 you HAVE to deal with them whether you like it or not.

      My wife and I have good friends who were high school sweethearts and have been married for over 40 years who just don’t understand the bitterness in my voice if the topic of my Ex ever comes up. One day I explained to them and pointed at the wife and said “imagine that you find out tomorrow out of the blue that he is screwing 3 different women without protection, there are thousands of dollars missing from your accounts and when you ask him he lies then admits that he never loved you, you never met his needs and he is trying to find his happiness. He then says that he is leaving you tonight to stay with one of the whores and that you and your kids won’t get a penny of his hard earned money and then he walks out”. I then looked at the husband and said “imagine the female version of that”.

      I then said “now imagine that this person whom you loved tells every friend of yours horrible lies about you that they believe and then fights you at every turn in the divorce. They then make your relationship with your kids as difficult as they can”. It takes you 5 years to emotionally and financially recover from all of this.

      Now would you be a little bitter about this ?? If someone just said out of the blue that you should forgive the person who tried to destroy you wouldn’t that piss you off ?? That conversation happened a few months ago and they never have said anything more about it. I agree with the advice that if the person talking is a friend and really means well then educate them and don’t sugercoat it !!

      • Agreed! I went NC a month after separation but kept quiet about my reasons for divorcing him… When he moved his mistress in two months later, I sang like a canari to all our friends and our community to let them know exactly who she was and how long a relationship overlap I had uncovered… Getting ahead of that narrative was the best move in the shit show that our divorce turned into… He was mad that I exposed him and was ever more mad that I name her “your mistress” and then “your wifetress” after they got married.

        Once a “friend” tried to convince me of the need to meet with my X to discuss things related to our kiddo… My response?

        “I disagree.”

        I don’t owe anyone any justification or explanation about my decision to use a parenting software as my way of communicating with my X. I am a mighty grown ass recovering chump, I know exactly what it means to have your life blown up by a selfish cheater, to keep forging on despite having to live with the consequences of other people’s disgusting actions, to push through for a divorce and choose peace over justice for the sake of our kiddo when the X marries his 25yo mistress at 50… It takes a whole lot of work to get where I’m today, and I am not about to let some misinformed RIC reps kick me out of my state of Meh.

    • Even when I’ve laid it out there, though, the sanctimonious cows generally say something like, “*shrug,* there are always two sides to any story.” So now i don’t bother explaining because it feels like just one more violation when I go into detail of the horrible way I was treated, only to have someone play Switzerland.

      • I hate that ‘two sides’ crap!!! How can there be any other side than ‘he lied and cheated for ten years and spent OUR money on who knows how many whores and living the high life while I was struggling with three special needs children and wearing Walmart clothes’!

      • Argh I got the “two sides” crap from the MIL. It always amuses me that that phrase is specifically designed to end the conversation and therefore shut down your side of the story…

    • Good post and that’s exactly what I do I tell the truth all my family and friends know exactly the true lying, cheating trash he is!

  • A month after d’day and only days after finding my 9yr old DD had cancer, my now Ex minister took it upon himself to tell me in no uncertian terms that I had absolutly no right to be telling people that my marriage was over because, “once they had restored him, how was I going to save face when I had to take him back if I have already told people my marriage is over?”. In the heat of the moment all I could think to say was “well if you manage to restore him feel free to introduce that person to me because that’s not who I am currently married to”. What I wish I had said was “Restore him?????? what is he a 1964 Chevy, oh please send that shit to the reckers, We’re done”! In this same exchange I asked “at what point can I say my marriage is over?” to which the minister responded without skipping a beat “when I tell you” which was the moment I realised he needed to be my EX minister.

    My Ex also cheated with men and just like me many struggled to connect the person he presents in public and who he really is. He is still in the closet and is now married to another woman in our school community. Sadly I have come to understand in this senario that christian circles excell at ‘don’t ask- don’t tell’. The dumbest question I was asked following D’Day because of this mentality was “I heard what you claim he did, do you have his confession in writing?” I had no comeback for this at the time but now I would just laugh and say “yes would you like it notorised and posted on the schools bulletin board?”

    • These “holy rollers’ just slay me. Here you have a women who’s child has just been diagnosed with cancer and the stupid minister asshole is worried about forgiving the cheater asshole. It’s all about “there but for the grace of God go I”. These guys always come to each other’s defense bet this minister asshole is screwing around or thinking about it. Hope all is good with your daughter now. I lost a four year old grandson to cancer, it’s horrendous thing to deal with cancer and children. Hugs to you and your child.

      • Agreed Lyndaloo our first Judge here in Canada had no qualms about letting me know that Adultery is not illegal including our home and that he could choose whomever as long as the children were not physically touched! Absolutely filthy and I have been fighting every step of the way!????????????

      • Lyndaloo,
        Sending you hugs.
        I am so sorry for your loss of your precious Grandson.

    • “I heard what you claim he did, do you have his confession in writing?” What is wrong with people?? Denial is a powerful force, and we have a culture of not believing victims when they speak truth to power.

      My STBXH also cheated with other men while living as a closeted straight man, and one of the friends to whom I confided this to early on simply will not believe that there is a whole group of closeted gay/bi men out there who use women as beards because they are too cowardly to come out and live their truth. And they like to use people. I was a beard for 16 years. A bearded chump! Lots of us share about this on the Straight Spouse Forum.

      • I was a beard for 13 years. In public, he is a well-liked, well-respected churchgoing pastor’s son. In private, he was cruel. He was emotionally and verbally so abusive I used to wish he’d hit me, just to have a visible marker of all the invisible beatings I’d endured. A counsellor listened to my experiences and immediately referred me to a social worker that specializes in helping women to transition out of violent homes. He refused to spend time with me, touch me, kiss me – let alone sex! The handful of times we managed to copulate over our 13 year marriage were incredibly demeaning. I was shut in a loveless, truly sexless marriage – a wife appliance only to be treated decently while in public, and treated with disgust and scorn in lrivate. He is highly secretive about the porn he claims to watch. He spends all his free time with men.

    • Or simply respond with a return question:

      “Do you passive-aggressively attack all victims? That’s sooo pre-Weinstein.”

      • Hahahahahahaha!
        This comment has made the pain of reading this post actually worth it. My heart feels warm now.
        Thank you.

    • Lyndaloo,
      So sorry to hear about your grandson. My girl is now 13 and is currently in remission, we have another 3 years before she gets the all clear. Thanks for the love.

      I grow more and more aware that my situation is not unique. I have not heard of that forum before and may check it out. Yes because my cheater has remarried a woman many just gloss over what he has done because they think his being with her will make him straight. Or they praise his efforts to live as God intended. Palm to forehead. He cheated, never owned it, claimed it was all in his past from the moment he confessed and then some months later stated he had been delivered. No remorse, He is just an angry nasty piece of work especially towards me because I call him on it.

      • I know exactly mine is an angry piece of work also and never owned anything! We have been NO contact nearly a year now and he disgusts me still!????

  • Sister-in-law: I’m praying God will change your heart and your mind about divorce
    Me: Really? I’m praying God strikes him (STBX) down with lightening

    • I told my sister in law that I hoped Santa would bring me a taser the Christmas after d’day.

      sadly my request was denied!

      • Academy has some nice shotguns on sale right now. That Mossberg Tactical 12 gauge pump is nice at $169.00….and it’s already sawed off. Plus, every Country Boy enjoys teaching a woman how to use one….especially those that still say “Yes, Ma’am.”

    • Former Sister-in-law: Everybody has a right to be happy.

      Me: Oh I totally agree! Not speaking to him makes me sooooo happy!

      • SIL said the same thing to me; “I just want him to be happy.”

        I’ve never spoken to her again. Silence – in this case – is the best response to stupid.

        • What is it about SIL’s and their hero worship? While I hope my nieces never face the pain of their family being blown up by infidelity, I sometimes dream of the day I can say to their mother “tell your daughter everyone has a right to be happy. That’ll comfort her.”

        • My mother in law constantly reinforced how he was entitled to happiness when he was cheating.

          Well she doesn’t like Nanthony. My guess is she will change her will.

        • I dumped all his family and friends the day I discovered his sister made Facebook friends with now Mrs. Twatwaffles (kids informed me last night that they got married. He told them not to tell me because my head would explode. Nice)

          Good riddance.

          • Mine did too! I found out when I saw a like from Skank Ho on on of her posts. I immediately unfollowed former Sis-in-Law. I am one of the wimps that keeps my disappointed silent though. She doesn’t know I did that.

      • Heard it from MIL about just want X to be happy. Wonder how she feels these days dear X is married to an unemployed physical abuser. Is daughter happy now? You and hubby happy? I really don’t care because i’m happy being free of the BS!

        • It’s amazing, my MIL used to ask X constantly in my presence ‘are you happy dear’. It used to burn my butt. He was the golden boy that could do no wrong. MIL was also a snob though she came from Royalty she would be mortified by Schmoopie. She’s a boorish, common, tramp, chipped nail polish and all. Oh I wished she could see sunny boy now! Ha! What a joke the pair of them make.

          • My in laws KNEW how much I loved their son/brother. I told them he was the best thing that happened to me.

            I’ve not heard jack squat from any of them.

            • Same here. Not a word from
              The in-laws 25 years with the family not even i’m sorry are you OK how’s the kids nothing. Told the one sister what happened that he’s been cheating on me with different people and she said maybe you can go to marriage counseling I said why would I go to counseling there’s nothing wrong with me there is something very wrong with your brother. I said your parents should ask for money back from the Catholic schools that your brother went to because obviously he never paid attention to the 10 Commandments. Lowlife loser.every day he cries because I’m taking half of his pension. I’m going to make a great life for me and the kids with his money

              • Your in-laws are similar to mine. Here’s part of what I’d love to say to my MIL and FIL about my cheating husband aka their son: “Neither of you have bothered to reach out to me to verify his stories (or just to hear my side) in spite of the 25 years of knowing me. My character has been consistent, whereas your son is deceptive and it’s certain that this just didn’t begin now. You’ve encountered it yourself since he was a child and still choose to turn a blind eye anyway. The support you are giving him for his immorality and deceit is indicative of the lack of compassion and humanity you were supposed to instill in him. Blood is thicker than water obviously, however I feel sorry for the guilt you must have for raising such a deplorable human.”

        • Ex MIL shouted at me down the phone about how he was so unhappy, during the only conversation I have had with her since d-day. I’m sure he is much happier now, he has no wife or girlfriend and probably very few friends. His family live miles away so the only support he has is the 60 something year old friend of his mum’s, who’s house he lives in.

      • Oops! My “yes!!” was in support of the hope that cheater stbx gets struck by lightning! Sorry.

  • It’s been so many years that I can’t remember the last time anyone brought up daughter’s dad, or my relationship with him. (Don’t have one these days.) Every once in awhile, someone will ask about my daughter’s relationship with her dad, (which, it’s been about four years now since he has answered a call, text, or Facebook message from her), and my response is that they are both adults who can manage their own relationship; it has nothing to do with me at this point.

    He has not been there for her during some major life crises and changes these past few years. She has gotten married, lost a baby to still birth, had to evacuate from her home due to Hurricane Irma, been involved in a horrible car accident in which her husband was at fault, and just started a fantastic new job. I don’t know how much of this he even knows about, although I believe she did extend him an invitation to her wedding.

  • I’ve told all our joint friends that I don’t expect them to take sides, I’m not setting any condition of ending their relationship with her to continue one with me. And I’ve been lucky; most haven’t picked a side, and it’s been clear once I’ve told my side of the story that there’s a lot more sympathy and understanding for me – less statements about “well, the relationship can’t have been right”, or “she wouldn’t have done this if she were happy”. Only one joint friend picked a side; her side.

    That friend is very, very sanctimonious and judgemental.She works for a charity that does work in Africa and is basically a non-religious version of a missionary, here to impose her views of righeousness upon the world. She thinks she is a beacon of tolerance and understanding, but if you don’t agree with her worldview then you’re a horrible ignorant person. She has certainly tried to insert herself into the breakdown of our marriage & has become my wife’s unofficial cheerleader. I had a friend who was due to meet with me for a drink, and she couldn’t help telling them; “Just remember, there are two sides to every story”. When asked to clarify, she told said friend “Oh, I couldn’t possibly tell you what I’m referring to, in case you pass it back to Chris”.

    That little prick interloper. As if things weren’t hard enough.

    • Chris, just cut these assholes out of your life. Who gives a rat’s ass what they think or say. There’s a saying “don’t worry what people think if you only knew how little they do “. If someone approaches me with forgiveness crap, I respond with ‘ you have no idea what the hell yours talking about’ and walk away. It’s none of their god damn business. They get the message and they shut the fuck up! I’ve only had one Switerland couple friends that tried to give me advise and I showed them the door. If you listen to this crap it just undermines your resolve to place the blame where it belongs with the Cheater! We are mighty and we don’t need unsolicited advise!

      • Agreed I have been lucky there and everyone I know was shocked and disgusted with my ex husbands cheating! What hurts the most was allowing a 9 year old boy to tell me! How PATHETIC!????

    • Chris, early on I didn’t expect friends to take sides. I believed they would also keep a neutral stance and we could all remain friends. Eventually I found out they weren’t my friends.
      If they’re not standing by your side and standing up for what is right then I’m afraid they’re not your friend.
      There’s no such thing as being friends with both.
      If someone deliberately betrays someone I care about, is dishonest, imploded their world and life as they knew it for over 20 years, they’re not friends of mine. As Tracy says, they’re not my tribe. I refuse to be friends with them, first for hurting my friend, second because they’re untrustworthy. You need to be with people who support you consistently and who are loyal friends. These people are not your friends. I trusted Switzerland friends and learned a hard lesson.

      • I have a stricter definition of “friend.” A friend is on my side, period, even if I’m wrong. And then, she’s on my side for calling me out on my wrongness. But my friends (and they are few) would never stay friends with someone who hurt me.

    • Chris, one of my friends told me, early on after DDay “if they are ok with [cheater], then they are ok with what [cheater] did to you.”

      While nothing in life is black or white, and none of us are perfect, is it acceptable to you that your trusted friends accept what was done to you and how you were treated?

  • Thank fuck that from the beginning I was upfront and my friends had my back!
    I’m sure there are a few “Switzerland “ friends out there but they’re not in my radar one year out.
    If anyone comes at me with the “get along” or “forgive” crap I know where I’ll tell them to go!

    • Same here, RollerSkater!!!

      I really can’t think of any instance of anyone in my circle that didn’t have my back.

      Anyone else that doesn’t get it can eat sh!t.

      I am neither Jesus, nor do I have Ahlzeimers

  • “So sorry, I find it very difficult to listen to you, what with my legs up in stirrups getting checked for STDs from my husband and all.”

    “Funny, I don’t see it as a loss at all.”

    “I’m not bitter and angry, I’m smart and will protect myself and my children with everything I have… just like he should’ve.”

    “I don’t negotiate with terrorists.”

  • I guess this must be the bright side of my 49-year-old STBX fucking my 19-year-old niece. I get no comments from the sanctimonious rubbernecker section. The advice I get usually involves fists, crowbars, or lead.

      • Lothos, yes he really did, and continues to do so. He moved her in with him after I left.

        • My niece was a few years younger when my ex exploited her youth and inexperience by coercing her into sex many years ago. I pin the blame for that choice entirely on him. (I also can’t help but blame myself for bringing him into her young life, which is a feeling that logic doesn’t work to diminish.)

          People with shitty character don’t tend to have boundaries around their BS.

          • Amii, I didn’t realize your X is on the same uncle-fucking team as Woody. I’m so sorry your niece was corrupted by a predator. It’s a horrible emotional wound to the family. Will it ever heal? That will depend on whether Bazooka Jane wakes up and leaves him, or stays there and breeds. Sickening thought, eh?

            I completely blame my STBX, but the niece has also betrayed me and the whole family. She is “morally and ethically confused,” as my brother (her dad) puts it. I brought her to live with me to help her with college, and instead she took my place. So, yeah, they’re both sick in the head.

            But hey, now I know who I was really married to! And now that I’m Meh about him, I’m grateful that he revealed his true self (even though I wish it weren’t with my niece). Now, I’m changing jobs, moving far away from the infidels, and dating an amazing he-chump! I get to gain this wonderful new life that I never would have dreamed of when I was dancing and spackling for a hollow log of a husband whose favorite hobbies were gaslighting, projection, blameshifting, and the whole nine yards of passive aggressive mindfuckery.

            • Your story always infuriates me. I had a lot of uncles (my father had 5 married sisters) but it would have been unthinkable that any of them would molest one of their nieces and it would have been unthinkable for us to betray our aunts. Because we loved them.

            • Oof… I forgot to say… TROLL! Stop gloating, manipulating the thoughts/ feelings of those who have genuinely been betrayed by their spouses. You and your ilk make me puke.

        • Something is wrong with your Niece?

          Your X is sick for sure but what is your Niece thinking with pursuing a relationship with a person that is old enough to be her dad.


          What is her parents position on this? (rest of the family)

    • I feel like that would be an interesting conversation starter… How did you two meet? Oh.. Uh he’s my uncle, but not really…. Like WTF?

    • Omg are you serious? That is filthy but these days I’m not surprised the filth that is running around!????

  • My narc bribed everyone in addition to trying the smears. His canal scurried to him for their little treats. Bonus: I get silence instead of having to hear from morons devoid of integrity.

    But if anyone did try that sanctimonious pap on me, I’d say he fooled me long ago and I guess he fooled them too. Only difference is now only one of us is fooled. And it isn’t me.

    Or I’d ask, how’s not having integrity working out for you?

    • Exactly this was my two FORMER sister in laws both bitches from hell and tried to cover for the pig when they found out their brother was being the faithful husband he should have been! I now have nothing to do with any of them nearly a year. Life us too short for that toxicity

  • One of my moms favorite sayings was “with friends like you I don’t need enemies ”

    I think it applies here

  • ‘I forgive nothing and no one.’ Said calmly and quietly, while maintaining eye contact. They ALWAYS look away first.

    • Yes I know exactly about the looking away bullshit mine could never face me, “EYE” contact why is that? 53 year old man acts like he’s 17 again!

  • I got so sick of “helpful” church ladies (who had never expressed interest in me before) coming up and, in pitiful tones, saying “We should get together for coffee sometime. You know, every marriage is difficult and I think I can help you.”

    This happened a couple of times but finally I had had enough. One particularly irritating, snobbish woman said, “John and I have had our problems, too. I’d love to help you through this.”

    I just turned to her with this really awful expression on my face and said, “Oh NO! You mean John’s been fucking prostitutes TOO?!”

    She was literally speechless.

    These women honestly thought that their petty toilet-paper-under-or-over marriage issues were exactly the life experience they needed to counsel me.

    That’s one reason CL and CN were my salvation. Finally — real people living out the same shitstorm who would allow me to be brutally honest, f- words and all. What liberation! (And for the record, I DID end up finding some church friends who had their own struggles and were honest and transparent and have been my lifeline as well.)

    • This is so true, CN has saved my sanity as well! Chumps understand, no judgements just sage advise when you ask for it and compassion when you need it!

    • That is awesome.
      I wish I had said something like that.
      I had a particular couple’s marriage held up as the example of what I could have if I just stuck it out. It was constantly referenced that I didn’t have it as bad as this one or that one. Blagh blagh blagh.
      So the day the wife of this couple passed me in the kitchen at church and stated “Oh you are just like me, I ran away from my marriage too once” I was floored and in my anger stated I had not run away it had imploded.
      I so wish I had had the ability to say to her “what was your husband fucking men too” that really would have shut her up and created uproar in the church. To this day most of them do not have a clue why I left choosing to believe that I was just not willing to work at my marriage and gave into my anger issues. Not one person from the church has called me in the past three years, they all act like I died and go on living there narrow little lives, while the new victim sits in my seat.

      • Thankful, these people are ignorant idiots, they have no idea what your X did but rest assured once he does it to his “new victim” they’ll get the message, and we both know it’s just a matter of time. These “Cheetahs” don’t change their spots or their behavior.

      • You didn’t leave a church. You escaped a cult. It takes a long time to recover from that.

    • “John and I have had our problems, too. I’d love to help you through this.”

      She kinda sounds like a former chump to me. Someone who stayed in her marriage despite being cheated on. If that is the case, she is in more misery than any of us are, simply because she is living RIC hell for the rest of her life.

    • LOL! made my day! I would have loved to be there to see the look on her face. Self-righteous people kill me

    • “John’s been fucking prostitutes too!?”

      That had me rolling! Her face must have been priceless!

  • I can’t get past the original comment

    “When you find out your spouse has been fucking strangers up the ass while you are home taking care of all the adulting, then you and I can exchange ideas about how best to spend the holidays. Have a nice day.”

    I simply can’t stop laughing.

    Here is one from a guys perspective that is a spinoff of the above statement and Billy Bob Thorton!

    “When you find out your wife has has not been able to shit straight for a month and you had nothing to do with it then you can come talk to me!”


    • I cannot stop laughing at either of those responses. I needed this today. I don’t think I’ve laughed this hard in 2017.
      Thank you to everyone with these great responses!

  • My ex moved back to the States nearly 3 years ago. About 6 months ago I was introduced to one of his (skuzzy) drinking buddies. He looked astonished. “YOU are P’s ex wife”! Ex had been telling people I used to beat him up when he came home from work. HA!!! When I heard that I almost peed my pants laughing. But just to say I don’t look anything like a husband-beater so you get the idea. So the friend then asked me how ex was. I just said “still a cunt” and left it at that. Admittedly this was said in French and “con” has a slightly different connotation to “cunt” but it still ain’t a compliment!

  • I am so looking forward to the genius of this group. I am at a loss for how to deal with my mil who makes no effort to communicate with my kids and blames my bitterness and inability to forgive. The kids are older and have free rein to communicate with whomever via text and email and fucking pony express, but rather than do that, she tut tuts that my bitterness is hampering their lives her life whatever. She’s never tried to reach out to them. I’ve been accused of airing dirty laundry, when in fact all I did was tell the truth about the marriage. The lies were prettier and easy to manage. The truth is dirty laundry. So don’t mind me while I audit this class and take scrupulous notes so I can tell that bitch off (she’s a counselor).

    • Ask her; as a counselor, why she’s thinks she raised a cheating lying narcissist ? Maybe if you and the kids could understand, it might help with the bitterness!

      • She is a narc. Toxic and image manager extraordinaire. Has never made a mistake in her life, nothing has ever been her fault. She’s Lucy with the football, and the world is Charlie Brown.

        • Well as they say, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree! I’d just cut her out of your life and go NC. If the kids want a relationship,as you said, they have free reign. She sounds toxic! Ugh!

          • Luckily geography is my friend. I want to have a script ready for when/if I see her again. She cried about emailing me but I had blocked her so who knows. I’m the snarkiest bitch around, but she has manipulated me for so long (30 yrs), i freeze. Her late mother did the exact thing, and when I was younger left me in tears more than once. It’s the only strong gene in a very shallow character pond. Not smart, just flat out mean in a smiley package of do-gooder. Definition of nice, not kind.

            • OMG, hollowbunny! Do we have the same ex MIL?!? “Not smart, just flat out mean in a smiley package of do-gooder.” EXACTLY!

              And what makes this even harder to believe is that HER husband, ex’s father, walked out on her and her three kids – when ex (the oldest) was 12 – for a 17 year old schmoops (he was 42). Flew her to Las Vegas the day of her 18th birthday and married her the next day. You’d THINK there’d be a modicum of understanding and/or sympathy there but nope! Haven’t heard a word from the ex’s family since he abandoned. Wonder what lies he fed them, although they’ve always been less than warm to me and my kids. No great loss there.

    • I discovered in college when taking psychology courses that the disordered and mentally ill flock to study psychology so that they “can understand themselves”. Remember that the disordered don’t usually come from a healthy family with happy parents with a healthy relationship. The kids are either abused emotionally and/or watch the same shitty behavior from their parents. Your Ex is the copy but your MIL is the original and I’d have as little to do with her as possible.

    • She sounds like my ex MIL. We had a massive run in and she told me I had to “take responsibility for my part in it” so I told her I wasn’t the one that “had their genitalia in someone else’s mouth”. That kept her quiet for a bit, then I went NC with her and the rest of the in laws. Best decision ever. Not my responsibility to establish and maintain the relationship between my kids and her. It’s his and their’s. And same same- they are totally into image management and how others see them (her and ex) and it all made so much more sense about where his narc tendencies came from. Stay well clear of the narcs for your own sanity!

    • Simple way is to cease contact with her. I went NC with parents as soon as I did with X. My kids are old enough to decide how much and what relationship they want to have with them. Let your X handle visits and kids talking to inlaws and you communicate with X through email or on-line service. Not your job to maintain a relationship with X parents or help kids. That falls 100% on X.

    • I would deal with MiL by being no contact. Zero. None. She has multiple ways of having a relationship with her grandchildren, including through her son. That’s true no matter the age of the grandkids. And remember that nothing bothers the disordered more than the truth, so of course telling the truth about the end of the marriage will lead to lots of cackling among the hyenas (and it is a “cackle of hyenas.”)

  • Them: You need to forgive, God tells us we need to forgive.

    Me; I have forgiven. I have forgiven myself for being fooled so long by a lying, cheating, emotionally and mentally abusive bastard. Him, that’s not my purview, that’s between him and God. Let God forgive him, or not. Last I read in the Good Book, God isn’t too fond of liars and cheaters.
    But, hey, thanks so much for being so concerned for my soul. I think I’m ok with God, myself. You might want to spend your time praying for MVM, I think he’s really gonna need all the prayers he can get so he doesn’t burn in Hell. But, do what you want. Have a nice day!

    • I have shared some long missives about forgiveness in the past – short version, how I have forgiven him any “debts” he might owe me, but I will never accept or excuse his behavior or allow him in my life, and I think that’s appropriate – but the short version is what people get from me nowadays…

      “He has already received all the forgiveness he’s going to get from me, and I’m not apologizing for or justifying that to anyone.”

    • Besides, part of the official process of forgiveness in the church involves, unprompted by discovery full and complete confession, absolute real contrition and remorse, and the truthful promise to go and not engage in that sin anymore. Without this there is no absolution and forgiveness. So, how many of us got this? Anyone? Anyone?

      • I think I did, but the stain of deceit and betrayal will always be there and I can never trust him the same. Me and the marriage will never be the same. Right now, I’m at ‘indifference,’ the marriage is empty but I’m ok and trying to make some very important decisions about where my life is headed.

  • To quote the sophisticated philosopher Hank Williams, Jr:

    “Why don’t you mind your own business?”


  • Switzerfriend: “Your other friend SolidFriend told me that you said CheaterBoy was very abusive to you over the years.”
    Me: “He was.”
    Switzerfriend: “You really need to be less negative about him. It wasn’t All Bad, you know.” [Said sitting across from me at her dining room table with her sixteen year old daughter sitting there listening, moments before a dinner party was about to start, so I was constrained from really answering this in any substantive way]

    Me: SolidFriend is my friend and she is supporting me, but I can’t control what she says to other people. But what I told her was true. And yes, it wasn’t All Bad All The Time, but CheaterBoy is the one who destroyed what good there was by cheating, not me. If me speaking about my feelings makes you uncomfortable because it includes “negative” behavior of CheaterBoy caused by him, just tell me. It means our friendship isn’t going to be the same anymore.”

    And it never was. 18 years of friendship went poof.

    • I think you came up with a good response! As for the “It wasn’t all bad” comments, my favorite is from Chump Lady: “Sometimes bad things blot out the good things. ‘I really enjoyed that shrimp taco!…until they pumped my stomach.’ He’s a bad shrimp taco.”

      • Ex often throws the ‘but we had some good times’ line out there. Well, many of those ‘good times’ happened while you were cheating so those times are polluted and cancelled out. And any previous ‘good times’ have a cloud over them because who the hell knows when you started lying and cheating?!

  • “Restore him?????? what is he a 1964 Chevy, oh please send that shit to the reckers, We’re done”!

    Awesome! ????????????????????

    I am jealous of all those of you who are quick witted!

    • Feelingit,
      I am the first to admit that my mouth has gotten me into a lot of trouble over the years as the comebacks have been cutting at times. But the shit that was said to me following D’day was just astounding. This same minister the day my daughter was diagnosed said to me “that I had to forgive my cheater even if it was a cold-hearted decision because his actions were only physical, not intimate”(how he came to that conclusion I have no idea. 20 partners over 8 years) If I had not still been in shock from the news about my daughter only an hour earlier I probably would have told him he had just described my sex life with cheater.

      I just want to put it out there that switzerfriends are painful. The most common thing I heard from most of them was that they did not want to cut ties with him just incase he somehow had a revelation that he was in the wrong and needed their support. WELL tell me how is that now sitting with everyone because we are now 4 years post D’day, No one questions him because he is now married to another woman, DD who is now in remision from cancer refuses to have regular visitaion with him because he broke her trust, and I have an email acount I have to close because the moron used DD’s Ipad that is linked to said account to surf porn because all of the divices in his home are nanny locked by the church. But if I speak up I am just the bitter ex who has not gotten over everything.

      • Oh yes, I would love responses for Switzerland. One of my best and most supportive friends has a Switzerland husband. He also shows many signs of narcissism. He tells her not to take sides but she has. She thinks he is lying low waiting for the divorce and then he can be friends with both of us. He is wrong.

        He is a lawyer and does say a few things to his wife that are helpful and would be for my protection but he still tells her to stay neutral because she is only hearing my side. She doesn’t though, she is a good friend and she knows the truth. She hates cheater and loves my new chump plagerized nickname for him”fuckwit”.

        • Uh, it sounds to me like your friend’s narc lawyer hubby is a cheater who hasn’t been found out yet. “Stay neutral” and “there are two sides to every story” is some shit that gas lighters definitely say.

          • Yeah. The “two sides” bullshit. The problem is people don’t really WANT both sides. They want the soft sell the cheater gave them because it makes them feel comfortable. They don’t want to hear YOUR side. Because hearing “that guy you liked so much? the one you let in your house around your wife and teenage daughters? He liked to screw around with whomever he could. He hired fetish prostitutes stealing thousands in marital funds. What you don’t want to believe that may be what happened to that $500 you loaned him? Oh by the way, he did all this without protection and may have exposed me to lethal diseases. I found out he for sure slept with one of his friends wives and another’s 19 year old daughter. What you don’t want to believe that? Didn’t he offer to take your teenagers camping?”

            • When it comes to a cheater’s dirty deeds….there is only ONE side of the story- the betrayed victim’s side. The cheaters “side” of the story is always a pack of false / selfish justifications, blame shifting, minimizing and gas lighting.

              Silence is NOT golden ……cheaters love a chump’s silence. It gives them the opportunity to reinvent reality.

        • “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.”

          -Desmond Tutu

          • Love that quote. It reminds me of one of my faves which now holds personal meaning post DDay:

            “The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis.”

            -Dante Alighieri

          • Love that quote. It reminds me of one of my faves that now holds personal meaning post DDay:

            “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality.”

            -Dante Alighieri

            • Neutrality is cowardice. Heaven help us people like Martin Luther King and Abe Lincoln were “neutral.”

              • MLK Jr was a cheater. He was with multiple women over the course of his marriage. Possibly even on the night of his death. I looked up to him my entire life until infidelity hit me personally. He is promoted as a pastor, so I assumed Christian values. But, no. He betrayed his wife with multiple OW.

          • To add:

            “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”


            • Silence is NOT golden. Especially when dealing with perverts and cheaters. Silence allows them to skip off Scott free.

      • Thankful, I agree–the Switzerland friends cause a more long-lasting pain than cheater, I think, because we still expect some fairness from them. It is sad when we have to give up any sense of justice from a wide swathe of the population (instead of just a single individual); it alters your world-view.

        • Agreed!!! My X use to hassle me about this because I realized it even before the divorce. Just didn’t know she fit the definition as well.

        • You hit the nail on the head for me, Tempest! As horrific as the betrayal from my exhole was, it was the switzerfriends that pushed me to thoughts of suicide.

          One stupid ass paramedic screwing a nurse and imploding 22 years of history…I could accept.

          Multiple decades-long “friends” inviting him instead of me to events, telling me they didn’t want to get in the middle, telling me that they were good Christians so they were going to forgive him and, tsk tsk, I should too…that pushed me so far down the hole of depression that I didn’t think I’d find my way out.

          I thank God I found a great therapist, a great doctor, and a new friend I can rely on for support.

          • KH73,

            I so hear you, the church crowd surrounded my cheater, his social life did not miss a beat, I avoided Christmas evens following D’day because I was ashamed of what had happened while he just went and chatted and mingled without a concern in the world. He had everything, me out of the picture, peoples sympathy over our separation and the opportunity to hang out with the guy he was crushing on without questions. Because no one knew the truth. When our daughter took ill I was by her side 24/7 he would swan in and out all dressed up or wouldn’t show at all if he had a better offer than visiting his sick kid and allowing me to go have something to eat or even a shower.

            One idiot even validated his being invited to a 40th birthday as it being part of his disciplinary measures as the person who’s birthday it was had been assigned to mentor him. WTF? I guess any excuse is better than non.

  • I don’t get comments on what I should have done. The circumstances around the divorce we’re too extreme and too public. There was no way for any sane person to defend cheater ex’s actions.

    For those unacquainted with the story, I say one of two things depending on the conversation. One…….When asked why we broke up, I just say I objected to his girlfriends.

    Two…..About forgiveness, I say some things are unforgivable. That Spirit will have to give me the power of forgiveness if I am supposed to forgive, because I do not have the ability, cheater ex’s acts were too evil.

    There have been a few who have decided to be intrusive and obnoxious and pointedly ask me to explain that statement, as if they have the right to demand that I explain myself to them. That’s when the gloves come off and the snark comes out……”Cheater ex kidnapped my youngest son and murdered him, and then killed himself.” Usually shuts them right up. Knocks the sanctimonious right back on their collective asses. Haven’t heard any holier-than-thou comebacks to that one.

    • Tessie, I admire you tremendously, your story is horrific and the fact you post here to help others is truly wonderful. You give everyone courage to carry on.

    • Every time I hear your story Tessie, it takes my breath away. I am sorry about your son.

    • Tessie,

      God Bless you

      My heart is broken for what has happened to you .

      Please take care of yourself. ❤️

    • Personally, I would think there was something wrong with you if you did forgive him.

    • I admire you for several things, among them that you got out of bed on any day since that tragic loss.Also the strengh of your firmly expressed convictions regarding busybodies and other judges disguised as friends.
      I’m so glad that you are still here and choose to encourage Chumps, showing the loving care for others you keep in a still-warm heart. I wish you all good things in your future plans.

    • Tessie, I always draw inspiration and perspective from you. And no doubt anyone who would push you to the point where you tell them the facts is asking to get knocked on the ass.

      • Thanks everyone, and LAJ…. you’ve got that one right, and the snarky part of me is more than happy to oblige.

  • I had everyone making a comment about my marriage in the beginning except for the cheater, he didn’t need to fight for it. He could just sit back and let others (church leadership) do it for him. That way when it failed and it did, he knew it would. I made it very clear if I ever found he had cheated we would be done. He could be the victim. It has taken 4 years to get their opinions of me out of my head.

    Please do not let the shit these people try to speak into your life take hold, it does not pay rent so don’t give it the space. I am not the unhappy angry person I was living with my cheater. People see what they want to see to help them cope with the situation. most encourage reconciliation because it would be better for them not you. They want you to own part of the blame so they can avoid having to make the grown-up decisions of holding the cheater to account.

    • Thankful, I agree that “most encourage reconciliation because it would be better for them, not you.”

  • Old friend after I described the abuse and that exasshole nearly killed me said “Well, if he calls me I won’t repeat anything you tell me”. Bottom line she insisted she would remain friends with him and noted “I don’t know what happened, I wasn’t there”

    My response: “Then we can’t be friends”

    Her: “You have no right to tell me who I can be friends with”

    Me: “True, I am telling you who I can be friends with, have a great life” Click.

    • I struggled with this a lot. It’s true that I would not let someone else dictate who I do and don’t befriend, so I don’t feel ok about telling others who they are allowed to befriend.

      You made it really clear here, though. You aren’t telling anyone who to know. You’re telling them you need more than one degree of separation from the cheater. It’s your boundary for you, not an attempt to control the other person. The risk of being too close to the monster who harmed you is too high.

      Every friend I shared with my ex ended up choosing him in the end. While I was appropriately not discussing him so I would not triangulate my friends, he was blabbing his image management freely. While I said, “I don’t know what he’s telling you, but you know me, and I don’t want to put you in the middle, so I don’t want to talk about him”, he said “she was awful, blah blah…”. Not one looked at our behavior choices and chose the person whose integrity bore out in the form of restraint and respect. They all chose the shiny story.

      Now I know, I am better without people who don’t value integrity. I grieved heavily at the time, though.

      When I choose friends, I choose integrity.

      If I were faced with it again, I’d follow your lead this time.

      • It sucks that your old “friends” made the wrong choice about who to trust. If it’s any consolation, I would have picked you, the person who chose to remain silent versus him, the slanderer and history rewriter. I lost almost all of the joint “friends” because I don’t do Fakebook, and I figured the only way to grow reciprocal friendships going forward is to do less of the reaching out to friends, and see who steps up. My circle is smaller but of much higher quality. Chumps need quality, cheaters need quantity.

          • I’m glad if that helped. It is a boundary, when someone says they want to continue to be friends with someone that abused you and be friends with you. That’s not OK. When they act like you are dictating who they can be friends with when you are only telling them who YOU can be friends with, that is just gaslighting. The problem is that some people want all the things, when they insist your boundary is wrong, they are telling you who they are. They are not your friend

      • Ami, the same thing happened to me and people who I thought were close friends of over a decade believed her lies and turned their backs on me. My God did that hurt especially when I was having one of the worst times of my life and desperately needed them.
        Luckily I discovered 2 coworkers that I wasn’t that close to before really WERE my friends and helped me through it. Since then I am very careful as to who I let be a friend.

      • Amiisfree – “Not a one looked at our behavior choices and chose the person whose integrity bore out in the form of restraint and respect. They all chose the shiny story.”

        Exactly. No one seems to know what integrity actually is or looks like. So when they see it they think they must be seeing guilt acknowledged through silence.

        After all, who would remain silent just to avoid a disordered shitstorm that would inevitably engulf the kids? Right? That kind of integrity just doesn’t exist. So silence must simply equal guilt…I think I’ll believe the shiny slandering storyteller.

        The ironies are almost too much to fathom…

      • Wow, it’s amazing isn’t it when you hear your own story articulated so well and making such perfect sense, it really make you feel vindicated. Thank you Ami ????

    • I have relatives that chose to remain friends with XH. They fancy themselves to be enlightened people because “there are 2 sides to every story” and “this is between you two”. You’re my fucking relatives so thanks for nothing. I no longer talk to these people because you’re either for me or against me and you gave me your answer.

      • Excellent choice. There are good and bad people in this world. We get to choose which ones we want in our lives.

  • Idiot: “you MUST forgive. Staying angry, bitter and upset is toxic to your soul. Let it go.” (Can also include some misinterpreted Bible verses)

    Me: “No. I’m doing very well in my anger and zero forgiveness. Go ahead and report me to Jesus/God. Maybe they’d like to kick cheater’s ass too”

    • Ugh, it’s like you’re quoting my mother EXACTLY… She handed me a book on forgiveness 10 days after I had discovered that the man I thought was the love of my life had announced that he was leaving me for a woman who he had know for 5 weeks.
      That book went in the trash so fast….

      • We learn to be abused from mothers like that. That’s why CL says “fix your picker.” When we are raised by parents who abuse our boundaries and don’t teach us to stand in our truth, then a “love object” looks like the gaslighting parent.

    • Lol! Go ahead and report you to God Jesus.

      Look my take is if God is gonna forgive the cheaters he sure as heck will forgive me and with that in mind I’ll be pissed at being betrayed as long as I wish. It won’t be as long as the ten years cheater was deceiving me. And no I won’t forgive cheater… I’ll let God do that. Mere mortal that I am ,my forgiveness will barely count.
      God may forgive you but I won’t!

  • “No.”

    It has taken me a long time to learn and get good at this one word, and it’s a great response when someone provides shitty commentary.

    • Just putting up my hand and walking away…the silent version of “talk to the hand”

  • I was told by ex MIL ( Seriously? is too angry, boys will be boys”.)
    She herself cheated, as did Ex’s father.
    Then followed with ” Seriously? needs to move on, and let go”.
    “Children need their father ”
    Nobody was stopping him. He had zero interest. Too busy shagging, and holidaying.
    So much bollocks advice, so little time.

    The one that never fails to infuriate is ” takes two to end a marriage”.
    Totally wrong.

      • Yeah, if I ever get that one, I’m going to say “Well, in my case it took more than 2. There were multiple prostitutes involved.”

        • Yep.^^^^ It may take two people to have a good, happy, strong, committed marriage. It only takes one person to screw things up by lying, cheating, stealing, and abusing. Just the one.

  • Unfortunately, one of my 34-year old triplet sons takes after his father, and his attitude is, “Why can’t we all just get along?”, an obvious dig at my choice to be Zero Contact with XH. But knowing my son as I do, I know what he really means is, “Mom, why can’t YOU just forgive Dad, pretend none of this happened and not make waves”?

    Of course, he’s the only one of the 3 who’s not married, blows through girlfriends like dirty underwear, and is always the dumper, never the dumpee. He has no idea what real love, real pain, real commitment, real betrayal feels like. Perhaps when he does, he’ll gain some perspective… some insight into the royal clusterfuck his father created by napalming our 40-year marriage, by fucking a baker’s dozen of other women, by routing our finances, by derailing our retirement plans, and by marrying AP #14 and expecting me to welcome her with open arms.

    Thank goodness my other 2 sons, my family, all our joint friends and acquaintances, and even some of XH’s family “get it”!

    • “DearSon, one of the most powerful forces in the world is the natural consequence. That means the thing that naturally results from your choices. Eat too much junk and your pants won’t fit. Natural consequence. Steal from your boss, you get fired. Natural consequence. Cheat on your wife? Lie and betray those who love you? They want nothing to do with you. Natural consequence. Never get in the way of a natural consequence because that is enabling destructive behavior.”

  • My friends and family all had my back and supported me all the way, so I was fortunate in that regard. If I ever get approached by someone like this, I’d imagine it’s best to just keep it simple:

    Busybody: You need to do this. You need to do that. And be more understanding.

    Me: I appreciate your concern, but frankly you have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.

  • Please keep these coming! I think I’m going to have to fire my counselor next week, because she keeps insisting that I need to maintain friendly relations with Mr. Justification and is adamant that my kids should not be told the real reason for the divorce. I need some zippy comebacks.

    The best I could manage was when she said the kids need to feel secure in their father’s love.

    I replied, “He was actively planning to walk out on all of us while I was pregnant. Is that love?”

    • Children cannot feel secure in their father’s love when they are not secure in their father’s love.

      Find a new counselor with a grip on reality.

      • The problem isn’t your lack of forgiveness, it’s his lack of integrity. That isn’t anything your forgiveness can fix.

    • It is critically important that your counselor is a good match for you in any situation. If it doesn’t feel right for any reason other than not wanting to face what you know deep down is true, it’s time to move on, regardless of the reason.

    • Do not lie to your children. If there is not love there, do NOT manufacture it for him. If you do, all you teach your kids is that people who “love” them will treat them like crap and that’s just normal. There is no security in that. You teach them that and you teach them to not rust their instincts. In what other circumstance would we ever ignore every bit of empirical evidence and insist that someone who is terrible to us really loves us? Can you imagine?

      • My mother did that.

        In fact she policed my whole relationship with my narc father. I think it only made him try even less because she would always translate it into something “loveable.” It’s a really messed up thing to do and in truth I resent her for it more than my father. We all knew he was behaving idiotically, especially her, but she kept defending him and presenting him as some kind of white knight. It became very clear in my teenage years that his image was more important than my actual life when he became very abusive.

    • Dump her ass and find a licensed professional who is trained in narc abuse. One of the questions when interviewing a therapist-“Tell me your thoughts on cheating in a relationship”

    • First thing my therapist said. The actual first words out of her mouth; “You can never go back.”

      Fire the counselor. Look for someone who helps people leave and recover from abusive relationships.

    • Wow, drop that counselor ASAP…..she is asking you to deny your reality! I agree with LAJ! There are many people on here that work in the mental health field and I am sure not one of them would agree with that therapist, myself included!

  • wow this thread is bringing back some memories

    two days after our daughter was diagnosed with cancer she needed surgery cheater messaged every number in his phone contact list. I mean everyone friend’s, family, colleges, strangers if he had your number you got the message that our daughter had taken ill and was needing surgery. ( massive kibble prompt) so I get a number of calls while she is in theatre asking if all is ok.

    One distant friend calls and I tell her that DD has cancer and is in theatre, she responds that she is shocked she just assumed from cheaters message that she might have appendix or similar. No. I then mention that cheater is out to gain support from all he can as he and I have separated, she waffles that surely I should be able to put my marital concerns aside for the sake of my daugher.
    Me “do you even know what he did”
    Her “no and I don’t want to know because I do not want to judge him unfairly, but clearly, you are not willing to let God work in this situation by the decisions you are making”

    She did not want to judge him but I was open game.
    No wonder I could not give a fuck about half these idiots 4 years ago and found sanity here at CN.

    • Thankful, I’m so sorry you had to endure someone that was so empathy-challenged as to say that to you!

    • Some idiots reserve their judgement for the wrong people. Let’s not judge the evil doers, let’s judge their victims. I think we have had related topics on CN before.

    • God works in mysterious ways. He gives us minds to think, words to speak truth, and feet to walk away.

  • My ex sister in law who slept with my ex’s brother while he was separated.. called me after not hearing from her for 2 years.. asked me “why didn’t you sign the divorce papers?” I told her “I served him! I had to sign at lawyers office”.

    Then an another “friend” said “didn’t he live with whore for 5 years & just get back from a around the world cruise? “ I said “I thru him out 2 years ago .. he was living in the basement until the house was legally all mine”. Do the math.

    Why do these rubberneckers care about such gossip? Just by answering them I brought back all the pain & humiliation. I shouldn’t have even answered them!


    By the way… OWHORE died in car accident months ago & ex narc is now living in aunts basement.

    Karma ????????

  • What happens when you do forgive? The busy-bodies still want more. Forgiving isn’t actually enough –
    they want you to go back with the cheater.

    I have forgiven my cheater (after some time had passed). But I still want nothing to do with the selfish narc! Forgiving is not forgetting!

  • Here is yesterday’s gem: This is from my mother who is a cheater.

    Mother: I told my hairdresser about you and she thought that maybe you stayed so long with cheater was that you were ashamed of how things were.

    Response: Thank you for your help. I certainly wasn’t planning on taking the blame for my cheater but you have shown me the light. Good luck with spreading your wisdom to others. ????

  • The people who truly care about me support me. They know the truth because I’ve shared my ex’s crazy letters about OW with them. Most of our joint friends sided with me because my ex ran away from them too. Some of our friends cried and had bad dreams after he we split. They grieved too.

    My ex moved to the same town as married OW and was taken in by her family and friends. I don’t know much about his life because I don’t ask, other than he bought a resort home in the country that’s enormous. My grown children and their families seem to really enjoy going there. At one point, my youngest son started a campaign for me and his dad to invite each other to holiday and family events. Even my oldest son, who was super angry with his dad for several years, told me, “Unless you want to miss a lot of birthdays and special events you will have to get used to Dad being there. You will be alright.” So in other words, get over it Mom.

    It’s a bitter pill, but one I will swallow in order to keep a relationship with my kids. I’m not going to insist they choose one of us over the other because I’m pretty sure how that would go. Sometimes I wish I could afford a bigger house where they could all stay, but I’m not sure it would make a difference at this point. So far, neither of us has invited the other to come spend a holiday, but we have met at for special events at our children’s houses. It’s easy enough to keep a distance on neutral ground.

    I have been invited to vacation with one of my kids’ families for several summers, so maybe that’s the most I can ask. I know they’re pulled in a lot of different directions on the holidays now.

    Anyway, as for people I don’t know very well giving me advice, I just ignore them. They have no idea what they are talking about, just like I had no idea before it happened to me. One of the most hilarious things an acquaintance told me was to get over my divorce by watching more TV in the evenings. Hysterical! I’ve lost my home, half my family, been sucker punched by the one person who was supposed to have my back, and I’m alone for the first time in my life, but watching TV will fill those gaping holes. I wish I’d come back with, “Yeah, I’m sure watching some reruns of ‘I Love Lucy’ will fix everything.”

    • Lyn- I totally feel as you do. 36 year marriage to narcissistic asshole – 5 year affair with whore. He is still in that relationship traveling the world, hasn’t gotten the settlement done. I’ve sold the family home- will probably move in with one of my sons. Can’t afford rent and my huge monthly lawyer fees. We are still in discovery mode.My three adult boys think I should just get over it and move on. I will- but its not easy without the resources. I’m no contact. One son is getting married next April. It makes me ill thinking of being in the same place as asshole. But I will do it. This person has caused more pain and devastation – of course no remorse! He is so happy, he tells my friends.

      • I’m so sorry, mocham. It definitely doesn’t feel fair to be discarded and then told you should be happy about it. I do believe kids want to see their parents happy and I’ve fought very hard to create a life that makes me happy. But it’s still the pits during the holidays. I’m also taking care of sick, elderly parents which my ex doesn’t have to worry about. He never dealt with the hard stuff in life. Instead, he always ran away. Anyway, I hope your divorce is final soon. It’s hard to move on while you’re still dealing with the settlement. Your ex is being an ass to leave you in limbo for so long.

        • Mocha and Lyn, I too was married for a long time 39 years next week. I don’t have the same issues as my adult children are strictly NC with X. This makes it easier for me to move forward most days. I can’t imagine having to go to events that X and whore are attending and be expected to be civil. I love my kids and grandkids, and it would hurt not to be able to attend special event in their lives. But for me, to do so, would allow the degradation and abuse I suffered from X to continue. If there is one positive thing I can take away from this nightmare it’s that I love myself and it’s my right to set boundaries. Birthdays and other special events can be always celebrated with your family at an alternate time and place. I realize that everyone’s situation is different but it seems to me you have paid a very high price already for your X’s betrayal and it shouldn’t have to continue. Lots of hugs!

      • Your lawyer needs to start filing petitions with the court to charge your STBX with contempt for not fulfilling disclosure, and to set up a support arrangement for you until the divorce is final.

        I’m sorry you’re suffering through this.

  • I chose to go no contact with 2 women who had been friends for many years when they started to criticize how I was handling my life. I must admit when Dday first happened they swooped in and for several months I let them almost take over – to the extent that they were making plans for me and I was too numb to think for myself. But when I started to make my own decisions, they now felt they were entitled to tell me what to do and when I said “no”, they were nasty. They told me I was stupid for having married who I married, for enabling him to cheat, and on and on. My solution was to go no contact and I don’t regret it. That is over 5 years ago. Sometimes there is nothing we can say, we just have to act!

    • My closest friend told me “maybe you wouldn’t be here if YOU were blowing sunshine up his ass instead of her.” I stumbled out of the coffee shop trying to not sob out loud. It was a visceral pain, i remember thinking I should just walk rt into the middle of the street (busy city.).

      • When we fix our pickers, we also fix the kind of friend we pick. So very sorry you were a friend to someone that unkind.

  • I don’t know. So far the only person I have confided in who wasn’t at least shocked and more often outraged on my behalf was the woman who turned out to be Schmoopie 1.0 (when I was confiding my marital troubles and telling her about Schmoopie apparently 2.0).

    Oh yeah, almost forgot, there was also the mediator who tried to tell me it would be my job to encourage the kids to have a relationship with Schmoopie for their sakes. In his case, I just started more or less ignoring him and focused on the lawyer and financial advisor who were actually doing useful work in developing the marital agreement.

    • Seems to me that each parent stands alone. If you aren’t blocking the cheater’s access to the kids, that alone is more than enough.

      It’s clear that people who cheat are skilled at putting a great deal of effort and time into being with people at times that would normally be work or home/partner time. Making time for and showing up for kids is clearly in the person’s skillset.

      If the cheater doesn’t use the allotted time to be present with the children, it’s a choice, not a helpless struggle. Not your problem to solve.

    • Ms. Mediator, I will facilitate a relationship between my kids and the whore he cheated with when pigs fly.

  • I too had one of those “in the closet” cheaters, who stole 30 years and my ability to trust. My no-contact has been super solid, and I typically shut down questions about my X, so I don’t get the same kinds of comments as some of the ones above.

    I do, however get comments that still irk me and I’m not exactly sure how to handle them. They usually come from people who were generally supportive, and so I don’t want to snark on them too hard. Still, I can’t quite come up with the right response. The thing is, ‘not long after my marriage ended, I ended up with an awesome new guy and we are quite happy together. All my friends, family and even my children love the new guy.

    I tend to get comments along the lines of “it was meant to be”; “if X hadn’t cheated you would not be with newguy now and he’s so great” and “I know I don’t need to worry about you”…

    I am not sure why people need to minimize what was done to me, how big an AHOLE my X was, or imply that it was all for the best. I don’t take newguy for granted, but 30 years of my life feels like a lie, my children lost their intact family, and I still haven’t looked at my childrens childhood photos or videos for 3 years. My finances may never recover, etc.

    So when people seem to want to minimize the trauma, it really leaves me at a loss for words. Any suggestions?

    • People just don’t get the depth of pain unless they’ve been through it. From the outside, it looks like you’re better off. I know this from watching my sister go through being treated like shit and then tossed out on the street with her young, special needs daughter. Her ex was having an affair and into drugs and it was so clear to me that he was a bad person. I couldn’t understand why she was devastated after every new discovery about him. To me he was so clearly screwed up. I didn’t understand spackling at the time. Once I went through it myself, I understood.

    • I get this. I fully intend to go on and lead an awesome life without him, but that won’t ever make what he did ok. If my life turns out great in ways it couldn’t have if he hadn’t left it will be in spite of him, not because he was kind enough to leave me so I could go be awesome. Honestly, my life could also have turned out great if he hadn’t cheated on me and had cared about being a supportive husband.

      Meanwhile, the kids are also doing well under the circumstances and I almost think he is a better father to them now than he was when he lived at home. Never the less, he could have chosen to be a better father while still living at home too.

    • “Now if I could only get back those 30 years of deception, life would be grand.”

      Or Tracy’s classic line, “That’s like a drunk driver hitting your kid and saying, wow, thanks to them, you’ve discovered a new talent for public speaking at MADD rallies.”

    • I love the line from “Love Actually” where Emma Thompson’s character tells her cheating husband, “es, but you’ve also made a fool out of me, and you’ve made the life I lead foolish, too!” What I would say to someone who minimizes your losses is just that. “My XH made the life I had with him foolish. A lie. And that impacts how I feel about every moment I had in that marriage. So while I’m doing a great job at rebuilding my life, the emotional and financial damage XH did is something I still live with.”

    • “If a maniac stabbed me but I met a cute doctor in the ER, that doesn’t mean the stabbing didn’t hurt.”

    • I’ve gotten a few of these comments, especially one about a month ago. A friend (ex-SIL) who has been very supportive over the last 4+ years said that now that I am happy and have a new life with my boyfriend, etc., why do I still hate my ex so much. I said I didn’t hate him, but I didn’t want to be friends. He broke the vows he made to me, and I’m not about to be his cheerleader. I only have so much energy to invest in others and I will invest it only in those worthy of it. Not my ex. (I did not explain it in deeper ways because the question showed me she didn’t get the depth of pain, so I kept it more surface level.)

      Maybe this was brought up now because I have been with my boyfriend over two years now, and my ex is no longer with his OW. They broke up about six months ago, from what I heard through the grapevine. And honestly? That does help. Knowing he isn’t with OW helps. If he has a new girlfriend, she would just be some random person, not one of the two people that destroyed my marriage.
      I guess she figures enough time now has passed that I should just get over it and be friends with him? But the lack of understanding saddened me. I mean, she’s been there for me like family through everything, but all of a sudden, now, she’s wishing I could just let it all go already? I guess she is ready for me and my boyfriend to come to the same family kid birthday parties with my ex and whoever he happens to be seeing? It’d be easier to deal with for them.

      But yeah. I guess she just doesn’t get it. She hasn’t had her spouse do this kind of complete betrayal, so I guess now when she sees me happy and fulfilled in my new life….the past pain just seems kind of irrelevant to her? When I talked about it with my boyfriend, he reminded me that there is still stuff that went on that she does not know.

      It stinks when people minimize the impact of the pain after you’ve rebuilt. They see it as “oh, it’s all for the best!”—and we ARE much better off losing cheaters and gaining a life, but it’s not necessarily their place to say that. It’s not like being happy now makes what my ex did “okay.” It was completely brutal….AND I am now better off. But it took a hell of a lot of pain and healing and work to get here.

      • Northern Lights, I agree. People just want you to move on it makes life easier for them. Whether it’s Christmas, birthday parties anniversaries or weddings. They don’t have to decide who to invite and who to exclude. They don’t get that the person who betrayed you gutted you, tore apart your life and in many cases your financial future. With all the “hilarious” romantic comedies portraying infidelity as a joke along with others glorifying the betrayer as a lost soul just looking for happiness away from that controlling bitch. How can we expect people to understand the total devastation we feel?
        It really is true you don’t know what other people have gone through unless you’ve been there yourself and even then, our experiences are not all the same. I can’t imagine being pregnant and being dumped like some women on this site! It unthinkable to me that any man could do this, yet it happens.
        Your boyfriend is right your XSIL doesn’t know all the facts and she just wants everyone to get along and make nice. I’m with you if it doesn’t sit with you meh or no meh stand your ground.

        • Yes, I think I’m just going to chalk it up to “she doesn’t get it because she hasn’t been through it” and then see how things go. I assume she’ll let the subject go and we won’t talk about it again. I think I was pretty clear about my feelings and seemed to listen and accept it, even though she didn’t really get it. And yes, the media does provide an unhelpful “guide” to how all this is “supposed” to go. Sigh.

          In the same conversation I said something about how I had heard ex had left OW for someone he had meet on a work trip (which is how he started with OW), and it turns out that he had been explaining things differently…that it was mutual or something? Who knows what’s true, but given his pattern to suddenly leave women with no warning signs, I suspect that I heard the true version (OW told a friend of mine that’s what happened and she told me). (Small professional community…) Whatever, I don’t really care. Though I do find humor and poetic justice in the idea that it came full circle, and the pattern repeated itself…

  • It is odd how different people consider the circumstances of two or more people having some form of sex, and possibly some level of physical abuse, so differently. In some societies, if a girl is raped she is a “shame” to her family, has no value, and may even be killed. Not the rapist — the girl. In other places you hear “it was just sex, it didn’t mean anything.” Then why bother? It makes you wonder if sex means anything to someone who produces that bit of wisdom? The ones who assume the chump is a sexless lump, or lazy, or a complete monster who drove the spouse to the arms of another — what will they do if their spouse ever “strays”??? What will that make them? Also — physical violence is evaluated differently than mental abuse or verbal abuse. Those who really believe words can never hurt should have heard some of the things my malignant narc father has said to me and my siblings. They need to be manipulated by someone they trust, and then have to deal with the consequences — when the only “fault” you had was believing the lies.
    It is all illogical — telling you that you “NEED” to forgive/move on/ be the bigger person — and they really have no idea of what they are asking you to overlook. Would they ask someone who experienced a home invasion where they were robbed of possessions, the house was trashed, and they were beaten and raped to make peace with the assailant(s) because they happened to be a relative? Do-Gooders and Busy-Bodies need to spend their time helping people who ask them to help — or serve causes that have obvious victims that cannot speak for themselves, like children or animals,or spend their time working with patients in hospitals and nursing homes, or help out feeding the homeless or distributing coats for the cold. These causes will never end, and the recipients of the “help” may be a lot more grateful than I am going to be listening to some arrogant ass bray on about knowing how to fix my life problems.

    How about altering a great phrase I learned on this site — “You must know what I really think of you, so why don’t you mind your own business, and stay far away from mine. You obviously don’t know anything about the “facts” so please don’t offer any of your ridiculously “easy” solutions to my complex problems that you clearly do not understand.” Or maybe the abbreviated version? STFU!

    • Some of it is that people want to shape the narrative of any event to reassure themselves that they are safe. If Cheater had 6 affairs, it must be Chumpy’s fault. Because that makes me think it can’t happen to me.

  • My own mother: “You should stay together for your daughter’s sake. I cheated on your father when you were little and he stayed with me.”*

    Me: “Mom, you and dad had a horrible marriage- you were always fighting and screaming at each other. You made us kids miserable”

    *side note: Found out my mom cheated on my dad, one day after I found out my wife cheated on me.

    good times 2017

    • So sorry about your double whammy DDays. That’s rough. I hope you have a happy 2018. You deserve it.

      Right after DDay I was almost secretly hoping it would turn out that one of my parents (married 50+ years and happy together) had cheated because I was still smoking the hopium that my marriage would recover. Now I am glad that (unless one is telling bold faced lies which would not be in character) they didn’t. If they had they wouldn’t be so happy now.

  • Some of the more glaring, asinine, comments I’ve gotten:

    From sisters at the family Christmas gathering two weeks after he moved out:

    “You and the boys should really get over it. He’s finally gone.”

    “How’s X doing?”

    Back then, I was hurt and could only cry.

    From my first lawyer (hence the hiring of a second lawyer):

    “Well, you married him!”

    From a coworker trying to be funny:

    “Just watch; you’ll end up getting back together.” I told him I found my worth and would never, ever return to someone who treated me like shit.

    And recently from my oldest, very wealthy sister who called to ask why I am not coming to the annual Christmas party this year. When I fessed up that my oldest son is back in rehab and money is tight:

    “You need to sell your house and save yourself.”

    I finally found my voice and replied, “Um… and what should I do with those three kids I have that need a sane parent and a HOME?”

    People can be assholes.

    • chutes, you should tell your sister that the depth of her compassion and empathy are overwhelming. Then hang up.

    • Chutesandladders,
      “You need to sell your house and save yourself.”
      And she would know that this “How?”
      I am so sorry for all you are going through and for your wealthy sister’s lack of support or understanding.
      CN cares.
      Hope rehab helps your son.
      You are the present, sane, loving parent. You are the home to your children.
      What the hell would she ever know about it!
      Stay Mighty. You have a Mother’s heart of gold.

  • How do you handle family members who are still in contact with the cheater?

    Example: I recently found out that my cousin’s husband still invited my cheater to be a part of his fantasy whatever league. It upset me so I contacted her about it. I told her it hurt my feelings. My ex cheated on me and left me during cancer and has continued to lie and treat me horribly in the months since. When my family is still in contact with him it feels like they are condoning his behavior and that really hurts.
    Her reply was that she does not keep tabs on her husband’s fantasy sports leagues or who is on them.

    I was very disappointed in her response and I have to see her in a couple of weeks.

    • Cancer Chump – all you really can do is let folks know it bothers you, and if they respond in an insensitive way, create some distance from them.
      Give your cousin some space and time, and see if she comes back in a supportive way. Meanwhile spend more time and energy on folks who are a bit more in tune with being supportive.

    • That was a horribly insensitive remark by your cousin. Reminds me of mil who told me she was not her son’s keeper. She is a narc and her son can do no wrong.

      At first I was thinking you should try again to explain your hurt but on second thought, I suspect if she didn’t get it the first time, she won’t the second. I would gray rock her as she obviously lacks empathy.

      My third thought was a comeback like: you ought to keep tabs on your husband, you wouldn’t want to end up in my situation. (Again woul probably fall on deaf ears)

      Pick out the family that support you, and focus on those relationships.

  • I’ve posted this before, but will again.

    Clueless Sister in Law: Well, you have to let it go. What’s in the past is in the past.

    Me: Yeah, but the STD he gave me will last forever.

    Shut her right the hell up.

  • “It has become my conviction that the only forgiveness necessary for the violated survivor to heal is forgiving themselves for being vulnerable, and then doing the extremely hard work of healing — cleaning up the wreckage that they did not create.”

  • The consistent feedback that I got during the divorce years was how the heck did I not just kill her and my cousin who she was sleeping with.

    People always tell me that they’re amazed at how I managed to stay calm and managed the situation.

    I have to say, every bit of advice or Commentry was wholly positive and supportive.

    Now that it’s all over, there are some Switzerland people out there who I have let go from my life peacefully.

    Note that I have never crossed paths with my cousin who helped blow up my family. I constantly weigh the negatives of jail time and it’s fallout vs the sheer joy of beating his ass into the ground

  • The only irritating advice I received was from my sister, very early on. She encouraged me to be out and living life…which I was. I just wasn’t excited about it at the time.

    Looking back, her advice was rather aggressive. I’d only filed for divorce a month prior, so being less-than-excited about social events was totally understandable…and perhaps even healthy.

    • One caveat here: I had a relatively short marriage and relationship (< 10 Years from first date to divorce finalization).

      Regardless, sometimes something reminds me of the past, and I get sad. It happens. Don't call me stuck in the past or brooding. I'm sad for 30 seconds, not 30 days.

    • That kind of attitude is really out of touch. My mom told me about a week after D-day to just make up my mind to not be sad and be done with it. She (not unlike your sister, I’m sure) struggled watching me in so much pain and turmoil, and wanted it to be over for my sake and for hers. I really didn’t care about putting on a pretend happy face for her or anyone else. Faking one’s way through life is exactly the kind of fuckery that makes cheaters a special breed of awful. I told her that I would be sad as long as I needed to be sad. She told me I was needlessly torturing myself. I told her I was processing it on my own time, and that her job was to let me be sad. She grudgingly backed off.

      I think one of the best thing we can do for each other as humans is to not shy away from the hard stuff, the sad stuff, the icky stuff, the uncomfortable stuff, the awkward stuff, the painful stuff. Those are the times when we (collectively) just need to show up and let it be what it is, together. The people who can’t do that sacrifice connection for comfort, and I don’t want to be one of those people.

    • My sister, my #1 confidante and support system, was secretly communicating with stbx, and throwing me under the bus and validating his decisions and actions while throwing me under the bus. She told me she had zero contact with him. I discovered this a year after dday while I was on her computer to book a flight and the emails between him and her popped up. Talk about pouring salt into a wound.

  • Sanctimonious rubber necker: blah blah blah…blah blah blah..blha blha blah blah blah blah blah blah blah…blah blah blah..blha blha blah blah blah blah

    Me: “i dont talk to assholes. they stink and usually spew shit.” after that i change topic pointedly and move on.

  • The only comment I got so far was: “I’m sure you’ll both end up as friends.”

    I just said, “Nope, not gonna happen.” And, “If you had any idea what she did, you wouldn’t be saying that.”

  • The worst cold hearted crap advice I got to mend fences and not be angry was very early on when I was unable to even think of snappy answers. A lot better these days, but I have told my shared friends with my ex this that I don’t care what they do with her, but they have to respect my anger about the whole thing. Not all do, and so it goes.

    My fantasy responses to sanctimony focuses on the vulgar realities that a cheater foists upon you. “Yeah, I but I still cringe when I think she would fuck him in the afternoon and then sleep with me. At least it explains the mild UTI I could not kick for a year”

  • I have always been someone who had a lot of acquaintances but few close friends. When I let someone in my inner circle, it is a BIG deal. I didn’t just lose my partner/co-parent, but also one of those friends. When I had evidence in hand of the last affair, I turned to her for help, and she said, “Everyone has a right to be happy, and sometimes you just have to do what’s right for you” in reference to LadyLiar. As I talked with her a bit, I discovered that LadyLiar had been going to her for advice. She kept the affair from me. When I told her I could no longer have her in my life, she said, “Being bitter isn’t going to hurt anyone but you. Life is full of disappointments. You have to just let it go.” I just reiterated that I could not continue our friendship. One year later, she texted to ask if she could visit me, and I said I couldn’t find any reason to see her, so she contacted my teenage daughters and arranged to see them at LadyLiars’s house. My girls think I “have a problem” because I “punished” our friend “for no reason.” It still hurts and I’m nearly two years out. I didn’t want to respond to her in a snarky manner. I want her to understand how incredibly hurt I am. But she doesn’t seem to have the capacity?

    • Well, you can always reply

      Life is full of disappointments. You have to just let it go.

      but probably you’ll have to keep the satisfaction to yourself, she isn’t going to remember or understand ????

    • Feeling you extra today curly. Chumps always want to do right by people… Even those who do wrong by us. Contrary to biblical principles I find this mind set just enables abuse and destroys the chump. Unless the Bible wants us to love our enemies from a distance.

  • To the forgiveness question, how about:

    “No, I won’t forgive and forget. I’m sure you’ll find it in your forgiving heart, though, to forgive me for that.”

  • “Can I ask you a question ? Have you contacted all of Bernie Madoff’s victims (the ones who are still alive,that didn’t kill themselves) and told them to deposit money in his prison commissary ?”

  • I just have to say that Fern is my hero for the weekend. I’ve been practicing her comeback allll day.

    A while back, I remember someone posting a come back, like, *cocks head to side in disbelief* “Oh, is that what you did when it happened to you?”

  • This lady told me she could bless my home to get the “lustful demons” out. She was a minster’s wife apparently. I called a friend who is one of those Church of Satan types. She called her friend, a Church of Satan “priest”. He came over and “blessed” my home. He assured me that I would be a hot MILF with an active sex life post-divorce and that my now ex-husband would get herpes. My house also smelled really great for three days.

    Yea, it was weird, but it was better than what the preacher’s wife told me lol.

  • I know it’s late. This is on time. This evening the children and I caught him out headed to a function with one of the ow,her son and her mother. Stbx was walking holding ow’s son’s hand and she and her mother were bringing up the rear. It was like slow motion. I spotted him and said to the children hey look daddy. While saying it I notice that he has a boy’s hand. I pulled up as stbx had spotted them too and they had started to say daddy daddy!. Think they realised too what was happening. They rolled the windows down and I did mine. My son asked daddy where are you going and stbx had to admit… He was taking ow ‘S son to a school function.
    I said and look there is ow. Who by this time was holding the boy’s hand and hustling in. Stbx tried to gloss over it and we left.
    My son started to huff and puff. Then he started to scream in the car. I got pissed at the whole situation. I started to say how it wasn’t right that they should have to be dealing with this. Stbx called and I gave my cell to the children. My son took it and tried to compose himself so as to talk to his father. Stbx started asking son how was his day, what he had for lunch. Like WTF… Talk about rug sweep. Son was still raw and I told my son to give me the phone and asked stbx to give us a call later since son was still rattled. Stbx said son was upset because I made him upset. Well that set me off!
    I let him have it! Everything and some.i told him that in court he won’t give his children enough money to live on but is parading with another man’s child and helping pay private school fees for him and basically funding their life style while his children do without. Asking me to give our children’s items for of son. I told him that he was a selfish wicked coward and didn’t care about anyone but himself. How he was continuing with his same behavior playing multiple women and in view of our children. How he passes in the area most mornings to get one of the ow but never once said he’d pass take the children to school. I told him that I would fight so that my children would have what they deserve. I told him that the children were important and that they mattered and his behavior sure didn’t show that. I just let it all out.
    The only thing is the children were in the car and started to cry. But i had had enough. I was fed up of the shit that he’d been slow feeding them.
    He’s been shuffling them around for months. Playing on their love for him but stringing them along and manipulating them. Says he only goes out with the ow and her son if they agree… As if they really have a say.
    Of course out came the’ you are crazy’ line and how I have it alll wrong etc. I told him his saying so won’t make it true. And that he in fact is the crazy one.
    He asked to speak to his children I told him go to your woman and the other man’s son. I said to him you won’t even have the guts to come to them. He did come but my sister had taken them… I didn’t realise till he pulled up. I told him to leave and threatened to call the police if he stayed. He’s so fcking arrogant he thought that he’d tell me to call my sister and I would. I told him you want them you call her. I was not about any shit.none.none.
    My sister later spoke to him and the little shit couldn’t help but lie and threw in some crying :” do you know what it is to say that I don’t care for the children. Hate me all you want but don’t hurt my children. It’s been almost three years, why won’t you talk to meeee!”
    He thinks everyone is stupid. Including the children.
    Imagine about two weeks earlier he was asking about ‘coming home’. I told him not a chance in hell. (I knew how he was living and he continues to be a shot. ) The day after he asked I saw one of the ow driving his car while I went to get the children after school. Yes… These people are really truly nothing but shit. Don’t think I’ve ever vented here so long. On the plus side it wasnt the woman or the boy it was the fact that my children saw it and it was a shock to them.

    • Don’t worry about losing it around the kids like that. Even if it was very startling to see you yell like that for the first time, knowing that you will defend them and lose your shit on someone that doesn’t treat them right means a lot to a kid. Love isn’t just caring about someone, it’s being angry when someone else mistreats them and being willing to go to bat for them. Kids need that.

      • I completely agree. Getting mad as hell about this situation from hell, and being loyal to your own kids is exactly what is required. You have your kids’ backs always, and that is priceless.

        • Thanks guys. Only person who gets it… My neighbor who went through the same crap over forty years ago. She had four boys now men. All still affected.
          My attorney sister who is seeing a married man didnt understand so much. Asked if I still had feelings for stbx. That left me puzzled. I said I have no interest in being with him my anger and hurt is for my children and the helplessness I feel in light of their pain. I’m not a robot.
          My uncle came and spoke to the children. They said his talk helped. Stbx also came to speak to the children. They said his tall didn’t help as much.

  • How about you ask his herpes-flavored twatwaffle if she’s repentant… then maybe we can talk about forgiveness….

    • I have a bunch of one-liners saved in the note taking app on my phone. I have gathered these from CL, CN, and/or other sources. In addition to simply stockpiling them, I have often been inserting them in miscellaneous compositions I’ve created which will probably never be spoken or sent to anyone, but compiling them has been quite cathartic nonetheless. Here are some of my faves (Perhaps I should use them for my first ever holiday newsletter):

      What was “wrong” in our marriage was his inability to keep his vows/part of The Ten Commandments.

      He took our vows to be mere suggestions, but “Love thy neighbor” literally.

      Our marriage was “over” because he killed it. (Just took me some time to discover the corpse!)


      If I’m so controlling, how did he manage to cheat for YEARS without my awareness?!?!

      He decided to make memories with other women during our marriage.

      Cheating is a character problem, not a relationship problem.

      “Irreconcilable differences” = I wasn’t in agreement with his cheating.

      If someone did this to your family
      members, I doubt you would think they were good people.

      Any flaws I have (or shortcomings as a wife) equate to less than a paper cut compared to the emotional homicide he inflicted upon me!

      We have a new addition to our family…my husband’s twenty-something howorker!

      There were more than two of us in our marriage for quite a long time and I’m the only one who didn’t know it.

      Princess Di quote: “Our marriage was a bit crowded.”

  • My best friend of 25 years was more than a little flaky when it came to providing me with any kind of support, or friendship for that matter after D day and throughout the legal process of ending my marriage. It was more than just little disappointing. It broke my heart. But she had a new boyfriend and was having a blast and she had no empathy or time for me.

    She and I were best friends for 20 years before I ever met and married ex-jackass.

    She did call me one afternoon to tell me she’d run into my stbx at an event. She was with her boyfriend and they didn’t say “hi” to my stbx. The next thing that came out of her mouth was “I really hope he (my stbx) didn’t think we were being rude”!

    My jaw dropped. If she had been married to someone who did to her what my ex did to me, I would have gone up and kicked the guy you know where. But she was worried that my ex-jackass would think she was rude!

    My response? Total silence. I wrote her out of my life that very minute, and it has been ten years and I’m perfectly fine with that. It wasn’t just that statement that cost her my friendship, but her lack of support of any kind when I really needed a friend.

    Sure wish I could get back all the time I spent comforting and supporting her over the years, whenever she had any kind of problem.

    • Ugh, I can relate, sadly. Worried about seeming rude, eh? What a clear statement of her valuing him over you. She was rubbing salt in your wound with enough passive aggression towards you to fill an entire shitty episode of Dr. Phil. Sounds like a covert narc. Good riddance, Switzerbitch!

  • I am still mulling over a Christmas card dilemma and this post makes me think of it. I got a Christmas card addressed to me from high school friends of fuckwits (they are twins who never married and still live together- a little odd- but they were always enjoyable company.

    I have not spoken to them since before fuckwit left a year and a half ago. The card said they knew it would be a different Christmas but hoped it would be merry.

    After reading here, I am inclined to send back something like: definitely not how I would have hoped it would be but so much better without a liar and a cheater! Thoughts?

    • Sounds perfectly true and honest to me Feelingit.
      You have more than earned the right to say whatever YOU want to say to whomever you want to say it!
      They sound like decent guys, taking the time to reach out to you.
      They probably didn’t even send a Christmas greeting to cheaterpants.
      Bah humbug to him!
      Strive on Feelingit, head high.
      YOU are Mighty!
      The TRUTH will prevail.


  • Sister: It is a shame that you can’t at least walk away from 30 years with a friendship.

    Dixie: None of my friends lie to me and betray me on a daily basis.


    Dixie: (thought bubble … so STFU already.)

    • Yeah, you know what? I AGREE that it’s a shame! It’s a damned shame! But that’s what fucking men when married, and lying about it does to a relationship. It ruins everything.

  • ‘You should meey her new guy. He makes her happy it been a year it should be a big deal. Hes good with the kids)
    Me. Yes a year he was hidden from me .in her car behind hedges at drop off. Who was around my kids was none of my business . Avoid having him in public if we have to be around each other.
    I stupidly try twice at some sort of reconciliation and am ignored She dropped him lots to go bang others then take him back. FOUR TIMES. In less than a Year. Our 7 year together 5 year marriage and two kids and my forgivness wasnt worth as much as a trip to the Dominican . Guess thats happiness to some.
    Not the AP? Yes so there’s that . With this guy less than two months after leaving? Ok…..
    Yep hes around my children so i should meet him. Should it be no big deal after all this time? Probably not but also see above? Do i want to do it at my kids xmas concert? Probably better theres a crowd.
    Maybe people shp6uld ask my ex why she felt the need to drag it out so now its even more awkward tense over a guy thats not even the problem but now is because ive had a year to ponder ‘whats her fucking deal?’
    ‘Why is ia big deal?’ Because it is

    • Bro, I am currently in the five em enough rope stage so I get to watch and document the triangulation she does with others (as well as pretend the cons working on me too). It’s so fucked up as I watch her shuffle through them. The main one who’s been around for the longest, gets broken up with, but he’s old, no job and his family left him when they found out about her. Anyway she breaks up with him, fucks a convict, goes back to him, breaks up, fucks someone else. Rinse repeat. My log reads like a Jerry Springer recap.

  • Anyone I know having any contact with my stbx and doesn’t deprive him of at least one testicle can bite me. The culling has been harsh and swift and quickly removed any and all fucktards who think bashing an 8-yr-old girl’s face in and abandoning his family after years of deception and abuse is AOK.
    I have one very good friend that I’m struggling with (because I’m really more friends with her husband and their entire family is beloved by me) because she actually stood next to him for an entire field hockey game while I watched from the parking lot (I couldn’t get onto the field without walking right by them and I just don’t trust myself not to sink my nails into his jugular right now.)
    What do people think this says to our daughters? My mother was standing right there with them. It’s not lost on DD#2 that her father never came back after that incident.
    There’s so much more but just WTAF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE???

    • I wondered the same at kids’ events. I would watch from across the pool or auditorium as people shook his hand or chatted. WTAF.

      Then it occurred to me–nobody DOES give a fuck. He gets a hand-shake and a few courtesy words, then everyone goes home to their respective residences. None of these people really truly care about him, just as the same people really don’t care about me and what he did to my kids. So? C’est la vie. I know who my friends are. I know who has my back. Anyone who remains friendly with someone who could do what The Coward did? Not a friend of mine. Oh, they might get a courteous “Hello” more for me than for them. They might get a few gray rock pleasantries. “Nice weather, eh?” But do I give one fuck about people who are so dim or evil as to accept or condone abuse? Nah.

      • “It’s what people do ” Kaa told me . Yep people just want everything to be OK so it doesn’t shine a light too brightly on their lives. The difference I have found between the attitude of fellow Chumps to Switzerland friends and cheaters is striking.

  • Mine did such an amazing job of getting me to isolate that I don’t have to deal with this. There may be an outlier or two but for the most part my friends are in on my plans and support me. I won’t be friends with anyone who’s not. Fuck that.

  • Forever Chumps were blamed for the cheaters cheating. That’s got to stop! Chumps cannot make people cheat anymore than they can make people shop lift or rob banks.

    The cheater needs to blamed- squarely. The marriage counseling industry needs an enema! Cheating is not a “marriage problem.” It is a moral deficiency on the cheater’s part. Re victimizing the victim (the chump) by “sorta blaming them” is plain wrong!

  • Six months ago SIL was telling me I should move on and not expect Kaa to support us after he blew up our family. Now In response to Her asking how I was I told her I was having to move DD and myself out of our home to take a job in another town. Her response Crickets. I figure she wanted me to say we were all fine rather than show her the cold hard consequences of infidelity.

  • Luckily, I haven’t ran into any sanctimonious advice givers but if I do my response will be, When your spouse goes on a planned work trip with his married employee and they stop over in Paris where she invites herself into his hotel room and she drops her shorts and climbs into his bed while he unintentionally walks down to the hotel lobby bathroom to purchase a condom so that they can fuck while you and your children are home eagerly anticipating his return, then you can tell me how I should have handled things differently.

  • Advice to sanctimonious advice givers:
    When you have walked a mile in a Chump’s shoes, then, and only then, you can give advice.
    Until then SHUT UP!

  • Reading these comments I’m developing a whole new appreciation for all my friends and coworkers who say, “Leave the bastard! Why are you still with that loser?”