Dear Chump Lady, I discovered a Switzerland Sister

Dear Chump Lady,

I’ve recently discovered my sister is back in touch with my ex husband – following each other on Social Media and WhatsApp messaging and birthday cards have been exchanged.  I have had this information for a while, but it came to a head and I couldn’t bottle in anymore that this really bothers me.

She saw first hand the disgusting way in which he emotionally abused me for months while I pick me danced, he lied to all of us and behaved in the most appalling way that showed him to have zero empathy.  She was who I phoned in the middle of the night, in tears of anxiety when I had to run out of a supermarket because I had a panic attack, was there to bolster me when I finally left and now, is back in touch with this man.

I told her that her being back in touch with him has really hurt me and I consider it to be disloyal. She said she was doing it for my daughters — they have indicated that they’d like him and I to be friends one day and I have explained to them that that won’t happen; we won’t be friends, but will be civil when I have to come across him.

They are teenagers and need to understand, I think, that it’s okay to not be friends with someone anymore who treats you so badly — there are consequences. So I don’t get the excuse. We ended up having an argument about it and she basically told me to fuck off. I haven’t spoken to her since, I don’t have the inclination to at the moment.

Am I being over-the-top here?  I hate the thought of not having her in my life, but I just can’t get over the fact that she is actively back in contact with this horrible man. Any advice would be appreciated Chump Lady and Chump Nation.

FeelingSad

Dear FeelingSad,

Here’s my first cynical Chump Lady thought — she’s sleeping with him, or would like to. Because really, who spends that much time, even WITHOUT infidelity, investing in their brother-in-law? Messaging and birthday cards? Like many people, I only have the vaguest notion of who my brother-in-law is. (Are? There might be more than one…) Larry?

That’s some above-average engagement there for someone you used to know. Let alone someone who brutally used and discarded your sister. I think you may be gaslighted here. Oh sure! It’s totally NORMAL to volley messenger texts back and forth and craft hand-written birthday missives in a casual “just thinking of ya!” kinda way! 

Uh, no it isn’t. I’m thinking of the tiny subset of people I actually message with, which splinters down to the sub-subset of snail mail birthday cards. My parents? I grant you validation that this is weird.

Weird is actually my nicest interpretation. What this really says about your sister is that she’s A-Okay stepping over your vanquished and sobbing body for kibbles. She’s high on some male attention, and your heartbreak doesn’t factor into it. Hell, WHO HE IS doesn’t factor into it — the guy is a cheater and an emotional abuser.

She’s either okay with that ( = she has crap values) or she doesn’t believe it ( = she thinks you are making the abuse up), or she thinks you deserve his abuse ( = she is a monster). None of these positions are “neutral” — all of these positions are either all about her (crap values) or a conspiracy against you (you’re making it up, or you suck).

Of course you’re upset!

What this is NOT is In The Best Interests of the Children. Since when did teenagers need an emissary? What is she, Jimmy Carter? “For the Children” is the refuge of scoundrels everywhere. It’s the best way to slap “virtue” over shittiness.

Why are you burning those books? For The Children!

Why are you eating all the cookies?  I was saving The Children from high-fructose corn syrup!

Your sister isn’t nobly inserting herself into your children’s relationship with their father to save them. Teenagers are quite capable of having (or not having) relationships all on their own. Nor is she Setting Forth a Better Example of How One Should Interact With a Miscreant. Will shall show him tender mercy and understand his brokenness! We shall send him a Hallmark Shoebox greeting card! And welcome him into the loving folds of our family!

She’s doing this for HER and no one else.

You can untangle it, or you can avoid it. I’d suggest a lot of distance. Let her discover the wonderful dysfunction of your ex for herself, if she’s so keen. You go work on that new life and leave her to WhatsApp shitheels.

She’s showing you who she is. That’s sad, but useful information. If it were my sister, I’d demote her to casual acquaintance. Larry?

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Roberta
Roberta
6 years ago

Reminds me of my SIL who NEVER contacted me during the divorce or my lung cancer surgery to see if I was even still alive. She was well aware of how my life had been up ended. Then when he had his surgery after his diagnosis of pancreatic cancer she engaged in phone calls and texts with this odious OW that were all giggly and friendly! I was appalled! She has always been flaky though and always the “weak link” in the family. What else could I expect? I agree with CL, give her a wide berth. Her boundaries are quite weak.

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

My (now ex) BIL had been good to me, I have to say. He did FAR MORE for my local job search than all 5 of my brothers combined. Wrote a glowing (and accurate, I might add) reference letter and sent it to the right people. BIL was smart and witty as hell and we often laughed our butts off. I felt close to him, though never attracted – btw – just fyi.

I actually got a great job offer, thanks to him. (Alas, I was too stupid to take it and leave my own narc husband then).

Anyway, BIL left my sister to be on his own (OW#2 as far as I know). He broke my sister’s heart and to this day she’s among the most loving women I’ve ever known.

Two weeks later he called me and we chatted a few minutes before I realized, he wanted us to be “friends” like before. I said ” BIL, you were good to me and I’ll be forever grateful for that. But you broke my sister’s heart and I can’t be friends with you now. Sorry.”

And that was that.

I’ll never understand his choice, to leave, other than a constant sense of inner turmoil he blamed on external factors. Then later he married a THIN high income earner who is a cold woman. That “wife” (not the OW, thank God) could barely get through my nephew’s college graduation b/c she cannot stand being near my sister, who has been gracious forever. She’s unkind to my sister AND ex bil’s kids and that’s even worse than leaving my sister.

But he did the almost UNICORN thing in one respect.

He called my sister when she had gotten engaged (and he had already re-married). Said he just wanted her to know he had “fucked up. Made a huge mistake” and that he wanted her to know he “got it now”.

I know a big part of that^^ is the focus on what HE LOST, not what he had done. But still, how many of us ever get to hear this?
I told her she’s one of the 5% and to savor it. She said it was bittersweet and I guess it’s b/c in some ways neither is much happier and both could have been. And he left when the kids entered the teen (HARD) years which he stuck her with.

Now, the 2 who are successful adults, see him yearly. That means they are “close” and he’s a good dad…the “wayward” daughter who was the oldest high schooler, and got pregnant as soon as daddy left, doesn’t see him much. She gets to be the target of blame for why he HAD to leave. I told him not to play the blame game near me b/c he’d lose…

Every night when he returns from work, my sister greeted him WARMLY… The new wife doesn’t get off her pricey couch, too busy doing spread sheets or some shit. I figure that’s about 10,000 fewer words of affirmation and physical touches, per month.

But hey, ENJOY the new wife’s salary! I mean, if she lets you.

ClearWaters
ClearWaters
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Feeling Sad, Roberta, I know your pain. But caused by your own sister must hurt more! Most people are just so damn mediocre.

For 38 year I had helped all of my in-laws and their children in many ways, cared for my MIL better than for my own parents (from money to changing her diapers and getting her shit under my finger nails), put up with pettiness, laziness, etc.

One of my BILs cheated on me about the price of a painting I bought from him to help his chronic debts and on repaying a loan I made to him using my great-grandfather’s inheritance. I even helped pay for one of my BIL’s MIL’s funeral. These are but a few examples of my seven BILs’ abuse of my good will.

My BILs’ wives, whom I thought were my friends, never contacted me after I told them what was going on. Almost a year later one of my SIL`s mother dies and she messages me, calls me several times. I did not reply.

A few months later I go to our shared weekend retreat to collect my belongings and I run into this SIL and my BIL. It is evident that a crowd will be arriving for the weekend. We are good natured to each other, my SIL gives me a tight hug and we talk about the books we are reading, best air conditioner for my niece’s house, etc.

Then SIL gets on the phone IN FRONT of me and calls up people telling them that the weekend is called off because “things are disagreeable around here with ‘the visitor’”. I couldn’t believe my ears.

Then my BIL starts yelling at me “why did you come?”. I answered “To collect my belongings”. He yells back “Well, get them and never come back. You never helped anyone, you never did anything for the family, you never paid for anything”. They left and I called up a van and donated everything I ever put in the house to the municipal social service, from the washing machine to the pressure cooker. I felt like ripping the upholstery but didn’t.

I feel so chumpy and it hurts so damn much when I remember these things. I think this is even worse than being cheated on by EX.

Gwen McClellan
Gwen McClellan
6 years ago
Reply to  ClearWaters

I am so very sorry you had this experience on top of others.
I guess the one truth is you know who they really are, and you can live a proud life of integrity, with the remarkable person you’ve persisted in being.
And.. LOVE the van load up .
You take good care.

The Ex-orcist
The Ex-orcist
6 years ago
Reply to  ClearWaters

ClearWaters
I’m so sorry those fuckers abused you so cruelly. Absolute no contact with any of them will save you further pain.

lulutoo
lulutoo
6 years ago
Reply to  ClearWaters

Clearwaters, the loopey are disgusting.

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago
Reply to  ClearWaters

Clearwaters,
What horrible treatment! You are well rid of the whole stinking lot of them. Fuckwits tend to cluster and yours is a perfect example. Smiling faces backstabbing you in front of you. Wow. Many shades of disorder. You rose above them and are now fee of them. I can’t understand how people can so completely dismiss what they know to be true. However, I do know that people who we help sometimes cannot bear the imbalance and come to blame or resent the helper rather than simply acknowledge & appreciate the help. Takers take. You can rest assured that you did what was right because it was right and generous and kind. I don’t know how they sleep at night, but I truly don’t care, either.
You are mighty!

Off the crazy train
Off the crazy train
6 years ago
Reply to  ClearWaters

Wow, how can people be so two-faced?! And to your FACE! Do you think she was trying to goad you into a reaction, a confrontation with that phonecall? Either way, it’s exceptionally passive-aggressive.

I can understand why this episode hurts you so much. None of it makes sense. Not just that they were family, but the crazy way they’ve treated you. But that says everything about the dysfunctional people you’ve left behind, and nothing about you. Just keep being you and stay as far away from them as you can.

Roberta
Roberta
6 years ago
Reply to  ClearWaters

Clearwaters, I can totally relate to your post. I also took care of his aging parents while he was out chasing his Schmoopie. I had to drive five and a half hours to get to their house and get this, they had a son who lived in the same area and a daughter who was 2 hours away not to mention grown grandchildren! It was appalling. I did a lot of my visits shortly after my lung surgery and I still had an open wound and a drain out of my left side while caring for them!! I was married to my Ex for a bit over 40 years and I hear crickets from these folks now! Comes under the heading, “no good deed goes unpunished” apparently! Let’s not forget about the care I gave their dying brother and the very nice funeral I gave him and paid for!

Hope49
Hope49
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

ClearWaters, HOLY SMOKE…Are you kidding? You helped for all these people’s funeral’s, changed your Mother-in-laws diapers etc., etc. Wow! These people are just SHIT. You are a really GOOD person. Save your money. Rebuild and Go On a Cruise or something because your deserve it. Take really good care of yourself. Start exercising if you don’t and get yourself healthy and feeling great. When they come (again) to you in the future looking for handouts, don’t answer the phone- or the door. NOPE! Your reward will be Meh, about any of the ex family inlaw arses. Just enjoy that vacation cruise, sip that cocktail and be glad that they and the shitty relatives are all in the PAST!

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Roberta,
You, too, are amazing and mighty. May you find someone worthy of your loyalty and generous spirit.

WishinForHappiness
WishinForHappiness
6 years ago
Reply to  ChumpDiva

Roberta, I am so sorry to hear your story. You were so badly taken advantage of, used, abused and then discarded in the most cruel of ways. I wish you peace, happiness and so much love!

I also paid for exhole’s father’s funeral. There is no gratitude or care for us. They just suck.

Roberta
Roberta
6 years ago

Thank you all for your support. I don’t think I would be here today without CL and CN. Frankly, my misery is over. The karma bus arrived in record time after our divorce and parked right on top of him and Schmoopie. She fell out of special snowflake love with him once she had to live with him and then his dire diagnosis. She tried hard to suck me and my kids into the ensuing drama, but we stood our ground. She wanted him soooo bad and now it was her problem. Turns out she just wanted good times and this didn’t fit her vision. She didn’t consider he would get terminally ill.
I stay at CN because I feel maybe the newbies need to know that there is life after a cheater. You just MUST let them go! True, I got sucked back in, but I also calculated the gain I would derive from his horrible situation. I know, I know. I lot of people would think I am some greedy old bitch, but I had to consider my future and the state of my health too (something I had put on the back burner all during my married life). He sure didn’t mind leaving me behind for Schmoopie and while two wrongs do NOT make a right I certainly had concerns about my survival. If that sounds cold, so be it. Part of divorce is making sure you are able to financially survive for yourself and children if you have young ones.
I urge all of CN to listen to CL! Leave a cheater, gain a life. Life is precious and short, too short to waste on untangling the skein. Face it, they cheated because they could. Doesn’t matter why, just that they did. Kick them to the curb, get the best settlement that you can and GO LIVE YOUR LIFE ON YOUR TERMS! Why he/she left is not going to change your reality. They are gone so it’s time for you to start living your own life. Don’t believe the BS a cheater or Schmoopie tells about you. They are full of crap. YOU know who you are and you are worthy and entitled to a good life. Go grab it with all the joy you can because it goes by very fast and who wants to spend it sick or sad. Hell, i’m Terminal, but on my good days I get out and have a ball! Neither my cheater and his Schmoopie or cancer will rob me of that! My motto is, “it’s none of my business what other people think of me!” They will always believe what they want, but I know I am NOT the greedy, sexless, bitchy witch the cheaters believed I was. That was just justification for their shitty behavior. Carpe Diem!

OtherRebecca
OtherRebecca
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

You’re amazing…wishing you many more days to enjoy.

MidlifeBlast
MidlifeBlast
6 years ago

Oh, that’s such a shame. I’m wondering if it’s him that’s pursuing her. That old divide and rule thing.

I’ve seen a lot of casual flirting going on at the school between my ex and other married mums, he can’t be sleeping with them all! But I’ve watched him and he sort of ambushes people with a fake “hi, how’re you doing?” Cheesy smiles all over the place. Even people who’s body language is saying “don’t talk to me” and they turn away, he will walk into their line of sight to talk to them.

I’ve even seen this also with friends who have left scumbag abusive partners, they will be snivelling around people at family functions and I don’t even know what they are doing there! I can see that these fuckwit idiot nasty people make ALOT of effort to hang around the old family.

FeelingSad
FeelingSad
6 years ago
Reply to  MidlifeBlast

Yes I do think that’s part of it, he maybe thinks that if he’s public ally “friends” with her, he can’t be that bad really can he, he didn’t behave so badly. But it’s interesting what chump lady said about sleeping together or her wanting to sleep with him – not the first time I’ve heard that.

LDRchump
LDRchump
6 years ago
Reply to  FeelingSad

FeelingSad, I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. I think Chump Lady’s advice is spot on, and gives you a great spectrum of possibilities. I would also suggest lots of distance.

Sending you love, support and lots of hugs!

Natalia.B
Natalia.B
6 years ago
Reply to  MidlifeBlast

Poor you. That’s a double blow of betrayal for you to deal with. I remember when my sister separated from her first husband (not for cheating that we know of). I was a really young single mum then and he probably thought I was vulnerable. He sent letters, cards and flowers to me saying he’d always thought he’d married the wrong sister!! He even turned up at my house. I was horrified and told him so. I was worried about adding to her pain but showed her everything. She hugged me and we both laughed, knowing how right she was to end her marriage to someone like that.

Hopefully your sister will come to her senses, but if not you really are better off without her.

Much love and blessings ????

MidlifeBlast
MidlifeBlast
6 years ago
Reply to  Natalia.B

Wow that’s scary!!

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  MidlifeBlast

The sister should be extra-appalled if this is the case. Because it would be someone (someone she knows is a crappy, hurtful person) trying to fuck with her relationship with her sister (his ex) and exposing his willingness to continue hurting her sister.

Like Jodi said, “Fuck them both”!

Jodi Lynch
Jodi Lynch
6 years ago
Reply to  MidlifeBlast

I agree with MidlifeBlast ~ its probably him that began pursuing her for whatever reasons. She’s not doing it for your kids, she is in it for HER.

Fuck them both ~ you don’t need them.

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago
Reply to  Jodi Lynch

He could be pursuing the sister to further harm FeelingSad. It happened to me. I don’t think my sister fell for it, but Fuckwit X certainly tried.

Let go
Let go
6 years ago

I don’t like your sister. Snake in the grass comes to mind. Yep, Tracy nailed it. Something stinks to high heaven. At some point you are going to get a teary phone call that he is treating her like dirt.
Someone recently commented that two self-centered people might find each other because neither has the capacity to care. You need to be present for your children and let those two drive each other crazy. You got off that train.

Rebecca
Rebecca
6 years ago
Reply to  Let go

There is a HUGE difference between stories about sister-in-laws and brother-in-laws and ones own siblings.

Anyone’s siblings may not like us and that’s fine, but there is something very off about the situation the letter presents.

I might even be able to understand some contact if the sister’s own children had a significant relationship with their uncle. And if those children were too young to have the relationship independently of adults. Like needing a ride to visit him or meet up when the ex had their cousins.

To cloak the sister’s contact with her ex-brother-in-law for the sake of her sister’s kids is bullshit.
Especially if the sister’s response was to say “fuck off”!

I suggest that the sister’s advice be followed.

Stay away from her and enforce your boundaries. Show her that what you say has consequences.
If she values your relationship, she will realize that her ex-brother-in-law isn’t worth losing her relationship with her sister. If she doesn’t realize that? Who needs her?

Siblings go thru many different phases as life goes on. Perhaps this is one. Or perhaps she finds your ex ‘exciting’????. Either way, you’ve made your point, and see how this plays out.

Turn to Chump Nation for support and not someone whose motivations are questionable at best.

FeelingSad
FeelingSad
6 years ago
Reply to  Rebecca

Thank you!

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  FeelingSad

Maybe your sister misses the drama. Just a thought.

Jodi Lynch
Jodi Lynch
6 years ago
Reply to  Let go

I also agree with Let go ~

I don’t like your sister either.

DunChumpin
DunChumpin
6 years ago

I adore my SiL. My brother’s wife is good to my brother, a great wife and mother and very sweet. I even talk to her sometimes and text. She’s like a sister to me in a lot of ways. She has this role in my life because she is my brother’s wife. That’s it. If her role ever changed there would be no more communication. When another sibling got a divorce I called her STBX when Stbx’s father died to express condolences. On the rare occasion I see the X or X’s family, im polite but not friendly.
Your sister is lying to you. There’s something else there.

coolbreezeout
coolbreezeout
6 years ago

Definitely agree with CL, if your sister hasn’t already crossed the line, she is playing with fire. Even if he did open the door, she should not have stepped through. The “for the children” argument appears to be a judgement against you. It doesn’t sound like you have denied him visitation or any other contact with the teenage children, what more ‘for the kids’ does there need to be? How does the two of them exchanging private messages and birthday cards help the kids? It would seem that would confuse the kids more than anything else – Why are auntie and dad getting so close?” would be the question and a cause of anxiety, not joy and relief.

Her telling you the equivalent of ‘f*uck off’ kind of lends credence to – yeah, they are sleeping together or are pretty close to it. Him being emotionally abusive – this would be his ultimate revenge against you. by taking away the ‘rock’ they you had and sleeping with her too – the last way in which to hurt you.

It might be time to go ‘no contact’ with sister so you don’t have to watch the drama unfold or give audience to his last great scheme of trying to mess with your head. So sad to hear about this and hopefully you have found another friend and confidant in the meantime.

FeelingSad
FeelingSad
6 years ago
Reply to  coolbreezeout

I fear you may be right. I’ve never denied access to him for the children – they see him regularly. I’m also still in touch with his mum and dad and they see them regularly too, so I too think it’s bullshit.

Langele
Langele
5 years ago
Reply to  FeelingSad

I know this is a late post.
I would feel how betrayed you feel.
And I’d be so sad.

But they show who they are. And we get to learn and move on.

KibbleFree_MightyMe
KibbleFree_MightyMe
6 years ago
Reply to  FeelingSad

FeelingSad – when I was in my early 20s, I had a sweet co-worker lady in her mid-40s (who had endured a horrible cheating-based divorce) tell me something I never forget: the older you get, you realize more and more that family becomes a choice.

Her bio family was a massive group of screw-ups. Her father was an alcoholic and a verbal and emotional abuser. He called her at work and committed suicide over the phone. Literally. Her mother was emotionally abusive to her all her life. Even so, she was the kindest, and most loving woman.

When she told me about “choosing our family,” it was after she had shared those things with me about her bio-family over some years. But something about her honesty in that statement stuck with me. Now, 16 years later, I’ve had to do exactly as she said. I choose emotionally healthy and loyal people to be around me and my children ONLY.

You’re in the position now to choose the family you will allow into your life. Unfortunately, it might not include your bio-sibling who chooses to emotionallly abuse you through high-volume contact with that x-dbag. (((Hugs, girl.)))

Ohana
Ohana
6 years ago

May I point out the high-handed ness of the sister declaring with her actions and words that she can make a better decision about friendship with the ex than FeelingSad? Allegedly. If that really is the reason. Which I doubt.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago

Soon after STBX left, my sister was friendly with him at my daughter’s baptism (he left when I was 6 months pregnant). She said that she wanted to make sure that if anything happened to me that she wouldn’t want him to completely remove my family from the kids’ lives. This did NOT extend to friendliness outside of this type of family gathering…just if she saw him. At the time it made sense logically but bothered me.

At this point, so much more has been discovered of the things he did and continues to do. Now, I’m not sure that she would leave him alive if she saw him. Family sometimes does not want to burn bridges so that they would not lose their relationship with the kids if something were to happen to you. Not sure how much of that is for themselves and how much is for your kids (since they will be left solely to the cheater).

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

Additional note. I always knew my fuckwit didn’t like my family. Funny how he turned it around to them not liking him. When we made our wills, (before cheating) I made sure to put it in there that my family would continue to have access to the children. My parents have since passed but I have made a new will in which my sister has a role. He could contest the will but at least my wishes are all on record should the bus hit.

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

On the topic of wills, if any chump has property or retirement accounts, etc. that will go to minor children, consider a Trust instead of a usual Will. I had sole custody of my 13 year old daughter at time of the divorce, and I got the house + retirement accounts in the settlement. I knew that if something happened to me and half of my assets were left to DD13, when Hannibal Lecher assumed custody of her,, any remaining assets would end up in his coffers.

With a trust, I was able to set up my sister as Trustee (upon my death) and told her to keep hold of all funds until DD turned 18.

Roberta
Roberta
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Excellent advice. I was told to do the same instead of a Will. There are added benefits to a trust also. I second your advice to CN. Luckily I had a very savvy financial friend who made me aware of a trust. I talked it over with my financial advisor and some other friends who were more informed and decided this is the way to go.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Not to be glib, but in the states, I think it is important to have a will even if you set up a trust. The will is what states your wishes for that trust and everything else. It is usually a nightmare if the state has to get involved. And in the case of a cheater, I think we all want our wishes as clearly stated as possible.

Outoftheblue
Outoftheblue
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

most countries you need a will as well, unless the children are your sole surviving relatives someone else may be due a share just based on consanguinuity

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

This is in my things to do as soon as divorce is finalized. Right now temporary restraining order prevents any changes.

I also plan to set up a special needs trust for my youngest. My older two will age out of child support in a few years and when support is modified, I plan to have child support and anything else where she would be a beneficiary (retirement, HSA, life insurance, etc). That way, future eligibility for disability or Medicaid won’t be affected by these funds. And cheater can’t touch it.

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

If your STBX is paying child support, get it entered into the decree that he (or she) must carry a life insurance policy, with you as beneficiary, for the amount of any remaining child support until the children turn 18. Annual proof of such insurance should be shown to you.

Outoftheblue
Outoftheblue
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

alternatively, you take out the policy and it is decreed that he must pay it so that it won’t ‘accidentally’ lapse by him just deciding not to pay it
If he remarries then he could leave everything to her and while you can contest a will it is expensive and timeconsuming. He could always of course have spent it all

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Working on it…

Warrior
Warrior
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

I thought if anything happened to the Ex who is paying child support the money for alimony and or child support would come out of the estate?

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Warrior

Depends on the state. Not true in my state. Only thing that comes out of the estate is arrears. Otherwise, the obligation ends with death.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

THIS ^^^ I did the same thing too, with a friend as my Trustee (so he can’t slam “the family”)… now he’ll have to deal with a retired Homicide Detective should I go first 🙂

Gorillapoop
Gorillapoop
6 years ago

What’s the difference between a will, leaving my sister as beneficiary, so she can make sure my kids are alright, and a trust? Why is a trust better?

Kris
Kris
1 year ago
Reply to  Gorillapoop

Late to answer. A will is more like wishes. A trust can’t be contested like a will and HAS to be followed. The assets that are in the trust are not disclosed to people not getting the trust (and if you are named you only find out what YOU get not what other people get).

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Gorillapoop

I don’t know all the ends and outs but I think the things in trusts are exempt from creditors and taxes are different. I costs to set up but it is not hard and definitely worth looking into if there are assets of any significance.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago

Love CL’s insight as usual.

Dysfunction in families coming out of the woodwork when the shit hits the fan. This probably is not new for her. She wants to triangulate. Not surprised that exists in a chump’s family. She is looking for a dose of drama. You are right in your explanations to your daughters why you won’t be friends with ex. Also extend an explanation that Auntie’s behavior is hurtful and inappropriate. Explain triangulation and that she creating a triangle (maybe a couple) Reiterate that the daughter’s relationship with their father should be just that and Auntie inserting herself is inappropriate and they shouldn’t ask her to get involved either.

Couldn’t agree more that the family has boundary problems and hopefully the buck stops with you!

Gracelynn
Gracelynn
6 years ago

Absolutely certain my sister would castrate my ex if she had the opportunity, But he is living with wife number one’s sister, who adequately appreciates his splendidness.

MidlifeBlast
MidlifeBlast
6 years ago
Reply to  Gracelynn

Gracelyn, please explain. He had a first wife? Then you? Then went to live with the first wife’s sister?

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Gracelynn

Me too! Amazing sisters are worth their weight in gold!

Given that our family sucks, my sister and I are they only two with any authentic loving connection. When the shit hit the fan, she became my rock in a second flat.

It felt SO DAMN GOOD to have someone tell me “I hate that you ever have to see him again” (because we share a minor child).

Doingme
Doingme
6 years ago

It took my sister two years to finally call to see why I stopped inviting family over for Thanksgiving. I stopped all contact after she decided they would continue to use his service business. I was floored. She said they basically never liked him but saw no problem in using his services.

After I told her how I felt I have been invited to all family events on her side including birthdays and Christmas Eve. Everyone came to my house for Thanksgiving this year. They no longer use his services.

I’m not sure your sister is Switzerland; she sounds more like an accomplice to the disorder.

Gorillapoop
Gorillapoop
6 years ago

My parents and sister are civil to the ex-cheater and his fucked up family because they say they’re afraid that if something should happen to me, he won’t let them see my kids. I want them to not act out of that fear. I’m not going anywhere and he sure as hell isnt going to win custody from me, because I am smarter and better than him. I think mostly my family and friends are civil because he acts like he didn’t destroy our lives, and its awkward to be rude to someone who is so friendly to you. Lastly, they believe they are protecting my kids from grown-up problems by taking his cue in feigning a friendly divorce. It’s been 14 months since the final dday and everyone has settled into a slick facade of no-harm, no-foul coparenting. Sometimes I want to remind him that he’s not fooling anybody, but I don’t because I follow the grey rock rules: don’t give him the satisfaction of telling him how I feel or that I even think about him. Projecting meh, though, when your ex is a charming sociopath, seems to only be helping him with his image management. A year ago when I told her he had lied to me about wanting a real marriage, she spackled for him. Today my 9 yr old daughter referred to her father admiringly as a “good looking lawyer.” Wtf? I’m torn between wanting to make the divorce smooth for her by not interfering in their relationship, and wanting to make sure every goddamn person in my life, including her, is reminded daily that he’s a lying son-of-a-bitch who cannot be trusted.

OCchump
OCchump
6 years ago
Reply to  Gorillapoop

I can totally relate to you frustration. You know the best way to protect kids from adult problems is not to cause them in the first place. How about him not being a lying cheater in the first place. Then the kids wouldn’t have a “problem” they need protection from.

At least you are one person who has their head screwed on straight. The kids will have him all figured out eventually whether you tell them or not.

It’s been 15 months since my d-day and STBXW’S family has just moved on like everything is rainbows and unicorns. Gross! The damage this has done will be felt for years.

I plan on telling my kids the truth after divorce is final (don’t want to poke the bear). It’s important for their future that they know why their lives have been blown apart. I don’t want them blaming themselves. I don’t want them thinking it’s OK to be treated like garbage. I don’t want them thinking they can treat others this way without consequence. They need to know.

I don’t need two little boys growing up thinking cheating is acceptable and I don’t need them growing up to be Chumps either.

Gorillapoop
Gorillapoop
6 years ago
Reply to  OCchump

Best of luck to you, OCchump. Is your ex cooperating with the settlement? On the positive side, my ex’s pathological need to consider himself to be a great guy means I was able to negotiate a decent settlement instead of hiring a private eye and fighting him in court.

KarenE
KarenE
6 years ago
Reply to  Gorillapoop

Gorilla, one approach I found super helpful in getting my kids to see reality, and learn to protect themselves from assholes, was to focus my ‘teaching’ on people OTHER than their father. When a friend acted in a truly kind and caring way, I pointed that out, emphasizing that it is by their BEHAVIOUR that we know people. When another person we know said all the right things, but DID nothing, I pointed that out too. I showed them the difference between ‘nice’ and ‘kind’ by talking about TV and movie characters. I taught them about narcs and sociopaths the same way (thank you, ‘Suits’!). We discussed character when talking about the divorces of their friends parents, referring to how things impacted the kids, and what their parents did or didn’t do that was actually in the best interests of the children. We had many brief conversations about honesty and about loyalty, about dealing with difficult situations and difficult people. I taught them about boundaries by discussing situations in which I had to set them, at work, with family, with service people, and by coaching them to do the same. And of course, when they, or I, acted in ways that were not honest, considerate and caring, we talked about that, and why it was a problem and harmful to our relationships.

Then in time, of course, they applied all this knowledge to their father.

Many advantages to doing things this way; I couldn’t be accused of alienation, because I hadn’t bad-mouthed their father (although I had discussed his problem behaviours with me and with them, as they occurred after the separation). Well, not with any basis in reality (he did accuse me of this, of course, but his behaviour w/the kids had been so obviously uncaring that it didn’t stick). Because the kids were figuring things out on their own, I knew it was a fair process; they wouldn’t have reached the conclusions they did, if he had acted in an honest, considerate and caring way with them. Plus, I have equipped them pretty well to deal with other problem people they will surely encounter in their lives.

I have to say, it was damned satisfying to see the kids, seeing him for who he is.

Gorillapoop
Gorillapoop
6 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Great advice, thank you!

OCchump
OCchump
6 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

That’s a really good idea to use others as examples. I plan on telling my kids the truth but I don’t plan on bad mouthing her. It will be more of a “this is what happened in our marriage” and then explain to them “this is what is expected in a healthy marriage”.

Gorillapoop
Gorillapoop
6 years ago
Reply to  Gorillapoop

Correction: A year ago when I told MY DAUGHTER he had lied to me.

QueenMother
QueenMother
6 years ago

My aunt thinks she is so sexy. She’s sixty something and with all of that “work,” she looks like Joan Rivers. She’s a wanna be model, a desperate housewife, and I pity her fool of a husband. She is breathlessly ambitious for her shy daughter to become a Hollywood star.

Then she meets James Bond (my X-hole) and immediately launches into seduction mode: “Must Have Sexy Man, I don’t care if he is my niece’s husband.” (Youck.)

Even James Bond, cheater extraordinaire, was shocked at her depravity. He couldn’t believe a blood relative would stoop so low. He told me to tell her to stop trying to seduce him. (Yah. Can you believe it? He was trying to halt kibble flow.)

Here is her comment to me, “I’m sorry I embarrassed you.” I don’t know what she meant. Do you, Chump friends?

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago
Reply to  QueenMother

James Bond was only horrified that she was old and unattractive to him. Had she been your young hot niece I have the feeling his scruples about family would have been abated.

Doubtless
Doubtless
6 years ago
Reply to  Jojobee

Totes Magotes ????

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
6 years ago
Reply to  QueenMother

I think it’s just one of those not-apology apologies – it’s supposed to technically be an apology because the word “sorry” appeared in it, but she’s really putting you down and misdirecting by misidentifying the actual problem. She thinks by reframing it as you being the issue she doesn’t have to acknowledge her own crappy character.

Whatringofhellisthis
Whatringofhellisthis
6 years ago
Reply to  QueenMother

At first I thought she actually meant… sorry I embarrassed you like a mom or aunt would say to a child. Like sorry I embarrassed you at the mall in front of you friends.
But now I’m thinking it meant… sorry I embarrassed you as a woman. Sorry I proved to you that i could have your husband if I wanted him and that should embarrassed you.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  QueenMother

She is admitting she is creepy?

QueenMother
QueenMother
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Or was she saying, “I beat you. I distracted your husband’s attention from you. I am Fabulouser, than you. little girl. Step aside Sex Queen coming through.” (There’s more to James Bond’s story. His comment was only a cover-up for his words to Old Ugly Hag Aunt, I don’t know if action followed.)

Awake
Awake
6 years ago

My mother did this with my ex husband. Narcissistic drama is what it is. No contact is the only way to survive it without going crazy. Run as fast as you can from both of them and save yourself years of therapy.

JC
JC
6 years ago

Yuck.

Lucky
Lucky
6 years ago

Yeah – my brother in law has been in my life for over 20 years.

I have never once texted, phoned or sent him a card ( electronically or otherwise ).
I don’t remember what day is his birthday…..

I care about him and will do small chat if seated across from him at a family meal.

My first thought was the same as CL – she wants to or is sleeping with him.
And triangulation!!!! And the kids!!!!!
So many kibbles – Hurray!!!!

She is a drama queen at best and possible Narc. Step silently away.

Anna
Anna
6 years ago

I had the same thing happen–but with my “best friend”. She “confronted me” at a restaurant in front of other friends and told me shed been talking to him and gas learned that *I* was exaggerating things he was doing to me long after the divorce. Unfortunately I had five figure attorney bills yearly for 4 years after the divorvevwas final to prove he was in fact taking me to court repeatedly, even years after the divorce was final, for things like “I want to go through the house again, I believe you still have things of mine”. He couldnt name a single thing I had of his–he just enjoyed forcing me back to court years after everything was finalized. He lost EVERY TIME. And we did not have kids, so there was no need for any contact whatsoever.

He’d lived a double life for ten years of our marriage, spent all of our alleged savings, double mortgaged our home, and was sleeping with dozens of other women and men…he especially liked sleeping with neighbors and people I’d run into. He even arranged to have our mortgage notarized by one of his affair partners. He tried to arrange dinner with another affair parter and her chump husband. He was a demented ghoul.

Despite knowing all of this, my friend believed *him* when he told her his version of Why He Kept Taking Me Back to Court five years later. She confronted me in a restaurant in front of our mutual friends. So I divorced her, too. Went no contact and never spoke to her again except to be cooly polite in social settings.

It’s sad, but I feel like losing disloyal people from your life is a gift.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Anna

Holy Crap, Anna … that is so much to endure. I am so sorry you had to go through that. On the other hand, just WOW!! to how mighty you are for coming out on the other side! Serious testimonial to your strength and resilience.

When the serial-cheating asshole flipped out and I had to get a restraining order at the insistence of the police officer and mental health officials, my dad (who lives just minutes from me and my kids) acted like I was being melodramatic. I was desperately seeking “safe haven” arrangements for me and my kids and he ignored us completely.

But, I really shouldn’t have been surprised (damn hopium applies to family too) … my dad is a narc and a serial cheater. When I married, I thought he was the opposite of my dad. I consciously wanted to marry someone NOT like my dad. But, no! Turns out they have the exact same disordered lack of character.

So, “divorcing” my dad when all of this happened was more like … Wow! It’s about time stood up and said “No More” to the crappy treatment I’ve been dealing with my whole life. It’s a lot in one fell swoop, but sometimes it’s just better to yank the band-aid. 😉

Doubtless
Doubtless
6 years ago
Reply to  JesssMom

Your DAD too, JM? So sorry. Narcissistic disorder is very real and very dangerous.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Doubtless

Thank you, Doubtless. (((Hugs)))

I’ve had so many revelations since the marital avalanche started (about my cheater, myself, my childhood) …. as hard as it’s been, I’m glad for it. Not seeing it kept me from escaping it. Knowing makes all the difference!

Polly
Polly
6 years ago
Reply to  Anna

I feel for you Anna, I was devastated when I found out that my alleged best friend went on holiday with my husband.
I was totally blown away. Furthermore it was so hush hush that they had to know it was wrong and big time wrong.
Yep I dropped her,she came round several times but I would not see her I could not be bothered with her excuses

ChutesandLadders
ChutesandLadders
6 years ago

Divorce from a cheater is a lot like death; you really learn about the character of your family members.

I have five sisters who have absolutely NO CLUE what my life is like now. Four of them are divorced and remarried and one is still with her original husband.

My financial situation makes them uncomfortable, but not so uncomfortable that they don’t offer unsolicited advice on what I should do.

“You need to sell your house and save yourself.”

This gem came from my (very wealthy) sister who thinks relocating will solve the financial disaster I was given when I divorced a man who stole from me and our kids.

“Your sons need to step up.”

My sons are also victims. They help where they can, but it’s MY JOB as the sane parent to make sure they are focusing on their futures and not worrying about how Mom is going to pay bills. I have three jobs to make sure they get what they need.

“You need to date.”

This gem came from my sister who has never been without a man in her life. When her husband cheated on her, she lined up a rich boyfriend before she divorced him.

“Here’s a ($25) gift card to Target/Vera Bradley/Kohls. Maybe you could buy some new clothes for yourself.”

A shopping spree isn’t going to make it all better. But I’ll take the card and buy food and laundry detergent and maybe replace some towels with it. Thanks.

“You need to cut ties with [addicted son]. He’s gone now.”

Yeah, that’s easy for you to say as someone who has NEVER struggled with a mentally ill spouse or child. I’ll just throw that kid on the trash heap and move on. This one hurt the most.

What I needed from them, they didn’t know how to give. There were days I just needed someone to show up.

Lucky for me, I have two friends who did just that. And they are the family I got to choose.

Doubtless
Doubtless
6 years ago

Go on with your three-job-having bad self, Chutes. ????

Zell
Zell
6 years ago

Thank you for this post. “Divorce from a cheater is a lot like death”.

People who haven’t dealt with this have no clue. For me it has I think made my two best friends (who are married) uncomfortable- they have ‘fatigued’ from hearing about. My sister was supportive and angry initially but she NEVER asks how I’m doing or the status of my situation now. My brother never cares about anyone or anything so I kind of expected nothing different from him. My mother is a cheater herself (found that out 24 hours after Dday- gave me a double Dday). My father died recently, but damn I wish he was around so I could discuss this stuff with him, especially after finding out what my mother did to him.

NotMyFault
NotMyFault
6 years ago

“Divorce from a cheater is a lot like death; you really learn about the character of your family members. ” Yes, what happens in both the ex family and your family can be unimaginable and devastatingly painful. From a mother that tells me to “get over it” to an ex ML that tells my adult son about the OW “yes, it does take some getting used to”. I had my brother witness my ex go through the house post divorce, and he related that my ex had said “oh, it’s a shame that things had to turn out this way”. THIS WAY? WHAT THE HELL? You meant to say it’s a shame that I cheated on your sister for the past six years? That I stole from her and your nephews? That I lied to everyone?

Needless to say that my brother did not respond. In other words, I could not even depend on him to stick up for me. In reality, the only person that you can rely on/control is yourself.

Owlbaby
Owlbaby
6 years ago

Chutes, you are mighty! I am on the same path, and needed to hear your strength this morning, thank you! And lotsa (((hugs))). Keep being mighty!

Creativerational
Creativerational
6 years ago

$25 to target? She has rich boyfriend but wants you to buy ‘Clothes’ with 25? do you mean half a shirt? Hahhha oh wow. She’s trying to give you smile lines or something because I laughed my ass off at that.

ChutesandLadders
ChutesandLadders
6 years ago

She’s a teacher, so she re-gifts the gifts cards received from students.

Creativerational
Creativerational
6 years ago

I can see my sister ending up all turned around in narcness. She would get lost in it, and want everyone to be happy and take the two daughters as people who need champions, whether they need them or not since she just knows best…. She gets very empathic and ‘lets all be chummy’ but it ends up being very very very ‘let’s sweep everything under the carpet’ and the wrong people get hurt. In fact her husbands sister is getting divorced and this Christmas she ended up organizing a little dinner with the sisters ex and a bunch of other relatives because otherwise ‘he wouldn’t get to see them’ (news flash: that’s the point….) and I remember thinking ‘you’re going to hurt hubbys actual sister for the man she’s divorcings sake. I don’t get it.’ But I have also been through the wringer and she hasn’t. There but for the grace of rampant infidelity go I. I get that this is something which will bring trouble and hurt to her current actual sister in law. She is naive and wants the rainbow story. So I won’t say this sister is sleeping with the ex, but I very much think the writers sister is sleeping around. I think she is under the hypnotic spell of a douche weasel, it doesn’t have to be sexual . The hypnotic spell was also the downfall of this writer, until the mask fell. He’s using the sister and it’s working.

KarenE
KarenE
6 years ago

Except that you fell ‘under his spell’ because you didn’t know who he really was. This sister DOES know, and is favouring him anyway, KNOWING it would hurt her own sister. That’s a whole ‘nother story …

Creativerational
Creativerational
6 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

You’re right. I’m feeling very chumpy in my perspective of this.

OhHellNo
OhHellNo
6 years ago

“For the Children” is the refuge of scoundrels everywhere. It’s the best way to slap “virtue” over shittiness.

I needed this reminder today, CL. THANK YOU!!!

I agree with Ohana; it sounds to me like your sister is getting off on being a better person than you are. “You can be a shallow, bitter, unforgiving bunny. I am a bigger person than that.” Okay, toots. What-the-fuck-ever.

I hope you can find another source of support who will actually put your needs before their own, Feeling Sad. In the meantime, know that you are in the thoughts and prayers of CN. Hugs to you!

Creativerational
Creativerational
6 years ago

Oops I meant to delete ‘very much think the writers sister is sleeping around’ but apparently didn’t, it makes me sound completely contradictory

violet
violet
6 years ago

Sounds like your sister enjoys the attention and perhaps the drama of it all.”Look at me. See how important I am! I am in the middle of something that is none of my business, and all the attention is on me!” I don’t know if more is going on, but at minimum, she likes being in the center of the skein of fuckedupness. She certainly is not engaging X for your daughters’ benefit.

It is difficult to cut ties with family members and it definitely creates feelings of guilt. Sadly, it is sometimes necessary. I do not have a relationship with certain family members out of self-preservation. It is sad and I am portrayed in a negative light because of it. At my age, I no longer give a damn. When I needed support, I was criticized, When I set boundaries, I was the bad guy.

I decided that life is just too short to silently accept mistreatment by anyone, family members included. I am beyond fortunate to have wonderful kids, who love, support and respect me. That’s more than enough for me. I do not miss the drama caused by certain folks pretending to be important.

Alexandra
Alexandra
6 years ago
Reply to  violet

I totally agree with everything in this post. ^

Kellia
Kellia
6 years ago

Wow what a betrayal! Your own sister? Nah, that can’t be! I was flabbergasted. Your own sister interacting with the enemy?? Your sister isn’t nice at all. Who does that, interact with a person who totally screwed you over, and yet here she is, giving him her time and attention, acting like it’s ok what he did. Does your sister have a personality disorder? people who are disordered usually side with the abuser. I’m sure this isn’t the first instance your sister has stabbed you in the back. What a betrayal and I’m so sorry she has done this to you. Sisters are supposed to protect you from the enemy, not side with them by spending time and energy with the enemy. It blows my mind how family does so much more damage than anyone else. Hugs to you.

Lady B
Lady B
6 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

If my brother ever bumps into my narc he better run real fast. Even my Mum who is a very kind person said she would like to thump him and my Dad would flatten him if he wasn’t so weak. He would tell him to ‘fark off’. Don’t mess with Liverpudlians.
What a punch in the guts, she’s a piece of work and no doubt would be slap talking you with him. NC leave her to it, she’s an idiot with no loyalties.

Lynne
Lynne
6 years ago

Not taking sides IS TAKING SIDES. She chose and it wasn’t you.

No Contact her. You told her your boundaries and she ignored and violated them. So f her very much.

Luziana
Luziana
6 years ago

I am still friendly and attend family gatherings with my sisters in law, but they understand that I will never be friends with my first husBand nod their brother no matter how sober he is 20 years later, because he put his hands around my neck and tried to choke the life out of me.

I had no children with Cold Slab O’Meat and hence MY Sister went so far as attending my dissolution hearing with me. On the way out, he tried to hold an elevator for the both of us. She looked at him with his eager, feckless face and said icily, “We’ll wait.” and sent the elevator down. That’s what a sister does.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
6 years ago
Reply to  Luziana

Indeed!

Beth
Beth
6 years ago

Feeling Sad,

I would argue that your sister isn’t Switzerland, she’s fully enemy territory. She was intimately acquainted with the details of what happened to you, which she heard directly from YOU, her SISTER and she chose to amp up the contact with your abuser. That’s not neutral. That’s full on announcing she is your enemy, blood relative or not. Just like a cheater, she has agency and this is how she chose to exercise hers. I’m sure it is very painful for you but I hope that eventually you will recognize what a gift it is that she has shown you so clearly exactly who she is so you can avoid her.

Also, Tracy is right. She is either banging him or wants to.

Further, she used your kids as an excuse for her bad behavior? Nope. I would be done with her for that alone. You don’t get to play with my kids emotions ever.

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago
Reply to  Beth

Good call, Beth. That sister is Enemy territory, indeed. I can relate w my own disordered sister. What a shitty turn she took, knowing full well.
Distance and gray rock. Some people just thrive off others’ pain. Ugh

newdaydawning
newdaydawning
6 years ago
Reply to  Beth

Beth, totally agree with you. The sister is not an impressionable youngster. By contacting the x she is basically saying that she is ok with how feeling sad was treated and is giving the x a free pass.

Kellia
Kellia
6 years ago
Reply to  Beth

I agree with this.

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago

Sounds like more mindfuckery to this chump’s ears, from both.
My one-year younger sister has a loooong history of chasing boys and men I’ve been interested in. At age 13 she had a pregnancy scare from an encounter with an older teenage boy I had had a crush on for months. Up until a few years ago when she took in a homeless sociopath who had been a football player in high school who I had also had a crush on. She stayed with him far longer than was normal, phtsically fighting to the point of biting (WTAF?) and fearing for her life. [Guess I’ve had some dysfunction all around me for life.]
Point being, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn my sister would continue, if not ramp up, her communication w Cheaterpants in an attempt to seduce him. Like THAT would be a challenge…! Ha. I’m so happy to be divorcing his disorder! If only I could divorce hers.

FeelingSad, I’m so sorry you are experiencing this. It sucks, all around. I hope you can find some trustworthy friends to fill the sister vacuum for yourself. You deserve better.
God, they suck! I’m so glad everyone else doesn’t.

Leavingthecrapbehind
Leavingthecrapbehind
6 years ago

The sister is trying to act like “the adult in the room.” Her misguided sense of moral superiority is unhelpful to the chump and the chumps teenagers. The sister is demonstrating a form of betrayal. Something teens should never be “taught.” Fence sitters, wishy washy “get along go along” types are almost as worthless as cheaters.

It’s best to excise any un-supportive, unhelpful people from your life. They were never your friends to begin with. That includes family members!

Magneto
Magneto
6 years ago

“She said she was doing it for my daughters…”
The best thing she as your sister could show you is how sisters should behave. The pact (I don’t care who or what they did, I got a shovel and some snacks for the road trip.) is what siblings are really all about.

I mean, who could lift 200 lbs deadweight by themselves anyway?

THAT is what she should be showing your daughters. Explain to your gals, over lattes, that you expect them to be sisters first and foremost to each other.

It’s the sweetest scene in The Crown, a show on the telly, when King Albert explains to his very young daughters that they will first and forever be sisters, royalty second. It wound up conflicting the future Queen, but it added a depth and dynamic to the story that was not known previously.

You sister is labeling her actions incorrectly. What she is doing is not noble, it is #sistahcodetreachery. She flunked the sister test on this one. Give her lots of space and rope, but don’t completely fry your relationship.
Your part of the code is to accept he back, in the future if she realizes her gaffe. That’s what sisters do.

Leavingthecrapbehind
Leavingthecrapbehind
6 years ago

Fence sitters, wishy washy “get-along-go- along” types that won’t take a stand- are essentially enablers. The try to invalidate the pain and suffering the chump went through.

I wouldn’t wish it on a dog…..but maybe the sister will be lied to, deceived, and cheated on!

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” — J.S. Mill

Leavingthecrapbehind
Leavingthecrapbehind
6 years ago

I hate to be the one to say it……maybe the sister was banging the cheater??? You never know.

Golfgrrl
Golfgrrl
6 years ago

Agreed. If she’s not sleeping with him now, she did (prior to the divorce) or wants to now.

For certain, she is an asshole.

Carrie
Carrie
6 years ago

2 comments:
1 – I am very close to my sister – camp, vacation, visit often. Talk to my BIL, but with my sister there. Have never sent a card, etc. And he is a good guy that I see a lot! Even if we are talking and she leaves the room, I am aware. Not that anything has ever happened, but because of what has happened in my life, I always do this for any woman. Hope that makes sense.

2 – my narcopath, sociopath, abusive ex reached out to my sister on Facebook. To connect, and to tell her that I was ‘out of control’. Lol – out of his control. She ignored and blocked him. And immediately called me and read me his message.

kb
kb
6 years ago
Reply to  Carrie

This is how I imagine my family would react should CheaterX ever contact them. I’d get a phone call from the family member to let me know that CheaterX had called and that they shut him off.

My youngest niece was 10 at the time, and when my sister tried to explain the situation in age-appropriate fashion, using more neutral terms, the niece wasn’t having any part of it. She denounced Uncle Dick, and told my sister that I should divorce him. My middle niece was a freshman in high school and offered to beat him up for me, especially since for some reason he’d forgotten to block her on Facebook and she was able to read his feed. She was not impressed with the Downgrade that was Schmoopie.

FeelingSad–I can’t speak to what’s going on with your sister. If you want to be more neutral about the situation, let her know that you have no objections to your children having a good relationship with their father. They are teens and are perfectly capable of working that relationship out.

You, though, can’t be friends with him. Friends don’t betray friends. That’s what enemies do.

Then maybe keep that sister at arm’s length. Clearly there’s something going on there–exactly what, it’s hard to say. Be civil at family gatherings but otherwise keep your distance. She’s clearly wrapped up in his Sad Sausage for whatever reason (did she always have a soft spot for damaged people? Did she have a history of pursuing men who liked you?). Wait until her head is on straight before you engage in more contact.

Best of luck.

M
M
6 years ago

I’m just going to weigh in here to suggest you think carefully before going into a no contact situation with your sister. I’m saying this because I am myself no contact with my own sister. Going no contact with a family member can create as many problems as it solves and has impacts on your wider family that can be really difficult to manage. You are probably always going to be connected to this person. I dread every Christmas and holiday period and cannot even imagine how I will cope with deaths in the family, funerals etc. My other sister’s wedding 2 years ago was a complete nightmare.

In some cases there may be no choice but to go no contact. In fact, I don’t think I had any choice in my case. Also, I’m not saying that what your sister is doing here is ok at all – it’s disloyal and harmful. You may need to have some greater distance from her as a result – no longer confiding in her or expecting support from her. However, in my experience you’ll be saving yourself a lot of future hassle if you can keep things cordial and neutral.

MissDeltaGirl
MissDeltaGirl
6 years ago
Reply to  M

I agree with you, and also with Jojobee below.
My strategy, which has worked very well in my entire clusterfuck Family of Origin — is to keep my friends close, and my enemies even closer. Those siblings of mine who have gone full-on no contact and announced it, etc., have created a whirlwind of hell for themselves as the disordered tornado then bore down on them trying to suck them back in. I, on the other hand, never announced anything. I ran little “tester” comments with each family member to see what got back to whom. Lo and behold, I couldn’t even trust the “good” siblings because they might accidentally say something to one of the “not so good ones” or my dad or my stepmonster and then it would get back to cheater STBX (now X of 12 years). So I realized I had the evil relations, and I had the dumb ones. The good ones were “dumb” so it didn’t matter that they were well-intended, their gullibility and stupidity made them just as dangerous as the evil ones. It was a defining moment for me. I also instinctively sensed that if I completely cut my invasive father and conniving stepmother out of my life, they would just team up with X and access my children through him plus talk bad about m1 e to the kids behind my back. I learned that they cared so little for me and my kids that if I let them think nothing was wrong, and if I gritted my teeth, showed up and checked the box on the big 4: Xmas, Easter, Halloween and Dad’s Birthday, plus included them on the kids’ birthdays and extra curricular performances, that they would pretty much leave us alone the other 345 days of the year, save the occassional funeral, wedding or retirement party. I did the math, and decided it was a small price to pay for relative peace, calm and obscurity the vast majority of the year. It really has paid off for me. I’ve watched them attack every one of my siblings, and two of them they have sided with their abusive exes. Right now, they are testifying against one of my siblings to try to help her abusive ex gain full custody of the children. They view it as protecting their rightful position as grandparents and their access to the children. They have positioned themselves to their friends, the court, everyone as victims. And they are partnering with the abusive Ex to paint my loving, nurturing wonderful mother of a sister as mentally ill, unfit to tend her own children. They are LYING, but they believe their lies. Her ex can now go to the judge and say, “look, Your Honor, her own PARENTs think she is unfit to care for the children!” Fair or not, that statement carries a lot of traction. People, Family Court is not like Criminal Court. They can get in there and anything they want to say. Anything. Now my sister is spending thousands trying to defend herself. Even if she wins this time, they will be back. Even if she wins every time, she will likely be in debt until the day she dies. Tread carefully, my friends, on this No Contact issue. Remember the old saying, you can never fight a disordered person and win. They are always ten steps ahead of us chumps in the manipulation and strategizing departments. No low is too low for them. They have no shame and will stop and nothing to destroy you. I love the toughness and the empowerment of most of the advice here at Chump Nation, but I have to warn you: consider your specific situation. Don’t underestimate your opponent(s).

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago
Reply to  M

I find that going no contact with my sister was absolutely no problem. I think what causes a problem in wider family relations is ANNOUNCING you are going no contact. Then everyone is talking about it and trying to “fix” it and the narc gets off on the attention and triangulating. I just never call my sister. I never invite her anywhere. She is a narcissist who never makes an effort with anyone, so would only do so if she noticed or someone told her I wouldn’t have anything to do with her. At family events I am “no contact” even when she is in the same room. If she is on one side of the room I am on the other. It works amazingly well. Other people don’t seem to notice.

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago
Reply to  Jojobee

Jojobe, you have helped me immensely. Great strategy. I’m with you. You are brilliant and mighty.

Off the crazy train
Off the crazy train
6 years ago
Reply to  M

I agree, to an extent. I think she should be bit grey-rock with her sister. Polite and cordial at family gatherings, or in response to messages etc. But not proactively make contact.

If she went totally no contact, it could turn into a family drama… the kind of person it sounds like her sister is, she might try to bad mouth her behind her back… Maybe not, but if the sister knows what she is doing is wrong (certainly, it seems that way, given the aggressively defensive ‘fuck off’), then the chances are she’ll go all-in for impression management.

I think she’d be better off cooling the relationship down, creating distance.

I also think she should tell her parents what’s going on, though!

SuperDuperChump
SuperDuperChump
6 years ago

I grew up with 3 siblings….2 older. We fought with each other, bullied each other, and “hated” each other growing up, but if anyone fucked with one of us….you fucked with all of us.

We all live in different parts of the country and rarely see each other. 40 years later, it’s still the same….you fuck with one of us and you’ll think the Earp Family has arrived.

I thought that’s the way all families were.

TodoVa
TodoVa
6 years ago

Same here, SDC!!! Growing up, this was the case in my family. I had their unwavering support and I know I could not have gotten past my weak moments (or months) without them. And as I remember, they helped me find my anger and rage to fuel me to get the divorce started. I will forever be thankful for that. Every step of the way, even being 4 years out…they are there.

In my book, anything short of my sisters helping me plan my life without cheater (or where to hide the body…you know, whichever) is time to reconsider their status as a sister!!!! Nothing wrong with that.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
6 years ago

Your sister is totally out of line.

Not her kids
Not her marriage
Not her divorce
Not her custody arrangement
Not hers to decide

Period.

Now if she thought you were legitimately abusing your kids, like locking them in the basement and not feeding them or burning them with cigarettes or giving them E or something, then it would make sense to intervene. Otherwise, she’s out of line.

You are her family. She should address you alone if she has concerns. Not your ex, not your kids.

I do agree with the legions of folks here who smell a rotten fish, but really it doesn’t matter why she’s in touch with him. Triangulating is BS no matter how you slice it.

I know it’s hard to let family members go. I have had to do a significant amount of it, including with my only sister. But when someone brings a basketball to a baseball game and tries to bounce it in the grass and find a hoop, it doesn’t work. My sister and I aren’t operating in the same reality. I’m on the baseball field playing baseball. She thinks that’s ridiculous and wants everyone to change the field to accommodate her basketball. It can’t work.

I can love her more from a distance than I can close up because I can stand the right of loving her when she’s not active harming me. So, minimal contact, family events only, nothing personal, and if shenanigans start I am out the door like I have explosive diarrhea. 🙂

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
6 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

— stand the risk — (not the right. Autoincorrect.)

ChumpDiva
ChumpDiva
6 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Amiisfree,
Basketball to a baseball game is inspired!

Off the crazy train
Off the crazy train
6 years ago

This is really sad. It’s a double betrayal that she’s behaving this way. In fact, call it a triple betrayal, for the way she got angry and told you to fuck off when you confronted her. This is not normal, empathetic behaviour. It’s really not ok.

I really hope that your thoughts and feelings have been validated by Chump Lady and the replies here today. Your sister’s behaviour – both with your ex and with you, when raising this topic, are not acceptable. You are not being over the top. Trust your gut feeling on this one. Don’t let yourself be gaslighted.

I understand that she’s your sister, and she was previously your ‘rock’. But what behaviour is she showing now? The way she reacted when you confronted her… that demonstrates that she doesn’t deserve the same place in your life that she had before.

My advice would be to not make a drama or give her the cold shoulder…. but edge away quietly. And replace the gap with people you can count on (even if that takes time to build). It’s a head-mess to have a sister behave like that – you need to surround yourself with people that make you feel good, not people that make you feel betrayed, or hurt, or confused, or let down. You deserve better.

FeelingSad
FeelingSad
6 years ago

Thank you so much everyone for your wonderful replies, I can’t tell you how much your support and words of encouragement mean.

newdaydawning
newdaydawning
6 years ago

Feelingsad sounds like your sister is “competing “ with you. If you look back over your relationship you might see a pattern. My sister was like this and it took me a long time to see it. You have a right to be hurt, her behavior is a betrayal.

twiceachump
twiceachump
6 years ago

This sounds much more than a ‘Switzerland’ sister. Was she this close to your ex before the divorce and continues the same level of communication with him now? Or is this level of communication new?

My dad was a narcissist and my mom codependent. This played out differently with my siblings and I. I’m the youngest, the empath, trying to keep everyone happy and no discord between family members. I married someone just like my father. My sister is a control freak and unyeilding. My brother, lordy has a lot of issues.

It sounds like your sister is competing with you. I’m not sure if she’s sleeping with him, yet. He is certainly a master manipulator and she’s either really week and buying his bullshit or really shallow and kibble seeking. Just my opinion, I’m not a therapist but a chump.

I agree with everyone else as far as no contact/gray rock her too. He’s either using her to get to you or she’s kibble seeking and #betterthanyou #cankeephiminline. The treatment for both of these cancers is to not give them oxygen (centrality and kibbles).

wasjustanotherchump
wasjustanotherchump
6 years ago

Good grief, your sister is an asshole. If’s she’s not trolling/pining for attention from your ex she’s got serious damage to any fucked up personality filters.
Nobody ever gets chummy with their preferred sex in-laws. I’m hetero and was very friendly with two of my SIL’s but I would never even want to reach out to my BIL’s for any reason other than an extreme circumstance (spouse/kids in accident or severely ill or death of family member) I’ve chatted at family gatherings but would have absolutely no clue what their birthdays were and certainly not doing social media with them.
I’ve had really close relationships in the past with gay men and while married always felt very uncomfortable getting chummy with hetero men (I honestly don’t feel people are capable of having extremely intimate platonic friendships) Yes, people can have relationships with preferred sex friends but the depth of friendship is curtailed by that frisson of potential things.
Either your sister is an asshole or she is monumentally stupid about what is or isn’t appropriate behaviour. Telling you that’s she’s doing it for the kids. Friendship ends when you lie, steal or cheat. My brother and my mother would sooner paintball x on the front lawn in front of my kids (no real guns because hey they both don’t think orange is a good colour for them to wear in the future)
My brother was extremely angry at me for not taking x to court and doing mediation instead. He wanted me to file for cause. But he’s simmered down since and realizes I was looking at cost of changing lawyers and court proceedings.
My SIL had to leave her home when POS was scheduled to drop off one of my sons. She was afraid she would be screaming and throwing shit at his car. If she and my bro ever got divorced for non betrayal reasons I would maintain a relationship with her based on her being a good person to me, my mom and my kids. My view is keep a relationship if the person is innately good for you and yours but if that person has harmed one of you that relationship has been permanently garbaged.

dld
dld
6 years ago

CL is right. She is sleeping with him or wants to. So Sorry, people, even siblings, suck. Go no contact and move on. The only thing you are going to get out of these two is pain.

Sammy
Sammy
6 years ago

I wonder if the sister is mad about something or as others say competing. So she is sort of doing a ‘you’re not the boss of me’ by being friends with this guy. It may not be about the guy but rather she is acting out in the worst way. And that doesn’t say much about how trustworthy she is if that’s her preferred mode of resolving her feelings.
I don’t even stay friends with the non cheating ex bfs of friends – if I think someone was mean to my friend I don’t want to engage with that person (especially as most times I’m friends with the woman and the guy is not my direct friend).

I do text my BIL but it is rare and usually my sister knows. As in I’ll ask her some advice and she might say to ask him instead. I almost always text him for something very task related and the same from him. I can count on one hand the number of times he and I have been out for lunch or coffee in 20 years and it’s not because of distrust or anything. Just who has the time. But yeah, cards? Constant messaging? Ridiculous.

EMC
EMC
6 years ago

It’s kind of mind-fucking when close friends and relatives make comments and empty threats concerning the ex, like, wanting to tell him off, defend my honor, or say they’re going to kick his ass when they see him next; then they’re all super friendly and cordial when they see him-and even exchange invites. I don’t expect them to abide by any physical threats; because we’re adults, there’s children involved, violence will only make the situation worse, and I don’t want them to. But it’s kind of annoying when people pretend to have your back and want to stand up for you and then don’t follow through.
I know it’s my own fight, my own emotional warfare, and that my ex’s sins directly affect me more intensely than anyone else; so I feel it would be rather codependent of me to expect them to take on my position against ex…but it still feels like betrayal. This is an irksome habit that people have-it’s easy to say what you would want to do, in the heat of the moment; but instead of talking a good game, like they’re going to follow through- how about our shut up and listen or don’t listen at all or be honest that you’re not taking sides; but don’t make comments that make it seem like you’re extra loyal and badass, or because it’s what you think I want to hear Doesn’t make me feel better.

Gorillapoop
Gorillapoop
6 years ago
Reply to  EMC

Weaklings. My good friend says she doesn’t want to come to my kids’ birthday parties because she’ll have to interact with my ex. Poor baby. It must be so hard for her. I can’t imagine how awkward and painful that must be. (Sarcasm)

Sucker Punched by
Sucker Punched by
6 years ago
Reply to  EMC

It’s called being two faced

ringinonmyownbell
ringinonmyownbell
6 years ago

FeelingSad,

One of the issues here is sorting out just who she is. To you, this seems like a ‘one-off’ incident because it is so egregious. But if you sit back, take some time to examine the arc of her life, her actions, not just with you, you will see the same patterns. It will give you the confidence to do what you decide to do. They don’t change. They can’t change. That is what is so hard for us Chumps, we learn from things both good and bad. They don’t. BUT this is a good opportunity to teach your kids about what loyalty is. You don’t have to point out your sister’s sins, rather point out what loyalty looks like and teach them that they are good people and deserve to have loyal friends, lovers, and family members. This is my small contribution to the future of my family, is teaching them no kind of abuse is acceptable. They are worth so much more than that. I teach them to get rid of abusive people and that it is ok, in fact really important to do that. To call shit for what it is. And when they get rid of abusive people, the people who are left are the wonderful ones. That is where I am, left with the really sweet and wonderful people.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 years ago

Dear Feeling Sad –

CL is spot on (shocking, right?)! You need to go No Contact with your sister. You may share blood, but you obviously don’t share values like loyalty and integrity.

As for your teen children, let me offer you this example: when Mr. Sparkles announced he was leaving the marriage for the OW, he took with him two teenage children (from his first marriage) that lived with us. That was four years ago. This past holiday season ALL of my “x” stepchildren came for dinner to spend time with ME… they know what’s what. They accept their Dad is a shit. They don’t try to tell me to accept him and forgive him. In fact, the first year after our separation when he tried to invite himself over for the holiday dinner, they told him to stay home… he wasn’t invited. KIDS GET IT.

You do not need to accept abuse on behalf of the children. You do need to model resiliency and consequences.

One less holiday card to send to ‘ole sista who’s with your mista.

CanadianDad
CanadianDad
6 years ago

In my situation I have gone pretty much no contact with my STBXW’s family. They did nothing wrong in my situation, and I miss them quite a bit, but I am not putting them in the middle of what has happened to my STBXW and me. I have known these people for almost thirty years, and it hurts a lot to have them out of my life, but their relationship to me was through my wife, as is the relationship that she had with my family. I can and will be civil with them when I do need to see them because they weren’t responsible for her shitty behaviour. My STBXW’s relationship with our kids is her responsibility, not my family’s or her family’s. I worry about my MIL having a relationship with my kids because my wife isn’t too friendly with her mom, but again, not really my problem.

My own wife didn’t really understand why anyone on either side would be uncomfortable or unhappy with the divorce. She wondered how my family could throw away a nearly thirty year relationship to her. I was, to say the least, gobsmacked. That is exactly what she was willing to do! Also, everyone who knew us as a couple would take about 5 minutes to figure out that I wouldn’t have wanted this, and she would have been the one to initiate the separation. Everyone knew how devoted I was to her and the family.

My family has been very supportive, and haven’t run her down to me. All they want is for me to be able to get my self back together, and they think about the long-term happiness of my kids. They are on my team, as it should be. I think a lot of cheaters have this problem because they can’t see what they are doing as bad. They have made it necessary in their own minds, and so everybody should be able to see that they simply had to break their marriage vows.

NotMehYet2
NotMehYet2
6 years ago
Reply to  CanadianDad

Hi Canada dad.

Similar except for my older ex SIL. She effectively became an enabler for my ExWhore. So that was shitty.

Although my ExWhore knew my family would cut ties (not fully but that’s another matter) she did say once in a text a while ago that she missed my family. I explained that was because of her choices, and I missed her family but I didn’t get a choice in the matter. I think that stung just a little.

Moveon
Moveon
6 years ago

Thank you for this post CL – it couldn’t be more timely. My situation is not the same but still hurt. I thought I was getting closer to meh but sadly no. I recently discovered my former BIL, SIL & their daughter were all friends with the OW on social media. Our divorce just became final at the end of December. I was with him & his family 25+ years. After the initial ‘we love both of you BS’, I have not heard from them. It’s good to know the OW, having broken up TWO marriages in my community, at the same time, is the kind of person you chose to be friends vs the former wife and friend of your cheating brother.

Nothavingit
Nothavingit
6 years ago

There is no middle ground in this kind of crap. Anyone that knows about the abuse and mistreatment that tries to play both sides needs to be held accountable. The sister in the OP is totally in the wrong.

Of course, in the VERY rare instances where my family has to be around my X, everyone is polite, but my X has been put in his place every single time he tries to contact any of them to triangulate.

My XH didn’t cheat, but he is a classic narcissist. About 2 years ago, there was an incident in his home and his wife quite literally dragged our then 12 year old DD out of her bed during an incident. Wife was arrested (X had called to police during a non-violent argument with his wife to teach her a lesson, and she decided to show HIM — so she grabbed my DD with the police standing feet away). By the next day, my X realized that he had created a shitstorm and went into full “make it go away” mode, and I was NOT playing. So, he went full destructive narc on me and DD. He tried to get me fired from my job, among other things. It cost me thousands of dollars and we spent over a year in court dealing with it.

Up until that time, a few family members had stayed FB friends with him, and I really didn’t care. I kept my aggravation to myself for the most part. HOWEVER, when he started his campaign to try and destroy me for standing up for OUR CHILD, my mother emailed every single relative that showed up in his friend list and told them, without getting into details, that remaining friends with him was a direct betrayal of me, and of her. Those who asked why were given enough info to make an informed choice. Most just deleted him, as my mom is not one to stir the pot.

Same thing with my friends. It’s pretty simple. Choose. Or I will.

Chiseled Old Chump
Chiseled Old Chump
6 years ago

Dear Feeling Sad,

You are right to be angry and my advice is to do as Chump Lady says and dump her; if she’s true to you, she’ll come back with a sincere apology, if not, you’re better off without her.

Here’s my pathetic story. My sister, a radical lesbian, was my confidante throughout the two years that I was trying to save my marriage to a narcissist and pathological liar; she knew about the emotional torture and gaslighting I was going through. I even shared important documents with her as my insurance policy in case the bad people tried to hurt me.

One day, not long before I made the decision to divorce, I was talking to my wife and she remarked on something that I’d told no one but my sister. It was as though I’d been hit in the head with a two-by-four. It took few weeks but I eventually realized that my sister, my trusted sister, had been betraying me all along. Was she repaying me for some childhood injury? Did she have a crush on my wife? Her man-hating nature couldn’t be suppressed? I don’t know, but in a way it was worse than my wife’s cheating and lies…

As far as I’m concerned, I no longer have a sister.

moving forward
moving forward
6 years ago

My comment is going to be unpopular.

I experienced a lot of Switzerland friends, neighbors, colleagues and family. XH was very convincing at impression management and had been working on these people forever. Unless you’ve been a chump — and/or dealt with a disordered person — people just don’t get it. This is why the Chump Nation is so important. CL and CN gets it.

FeelingSad, you’ve told your sister how you feel and my advice is to let it go. Connecting on social media and messaging is not necessarily anything. Yes, it is disappointing and infuriating but let it go. In time, she will understand how much of a turd he is.

I’ll give your sister a pass this time because I think she is being naive. She’s drunk the collective cool-aid that ‘playing nice’ is in the best interest of everyone. So many of us were conditioned to do that – be nice – be supportive – be forgiving — it’s “the enlightened thing to do”. But it isn’t. What’s enlightened is enforcing tough love and healthy boundaries.

FeelingSad
FeelingSad
6 years ago
Reply to  moving forward

Thank you – I’m just not sure what to do next so am just going to give it time but I feel better for getting it off my chest.

Zell
Zell
6 years ago

yeah my sister follows my cheater wife on Facebook and instagram- she “likes” pictures that have my daughter in them. She doesn’t communicate with her though. I’ve been contemplating having the conversation with her to please stop. I can sender her freaking photographs.

Marci
Marci
6 years ago

Here’s an example of fuckwit betrayal. My good friend filed for divorce from her cheating alcoholic gambling-addict husband with whom she had two children. By the time she filed, he had gambled away all the equity they had so she faced losing her home. He had also been frequenting strip joints as per the receipts that fell out of his briefcase. He was charged with assaulting the wife when she filed.

Because she was well employed and he got fired from his sales job for too many DUI’s, she faced being ordered to pat HIM spousal support. She wanted full custody for good reason.

Her own blue haired mother, embarrassed by her divorcing daughter, showed up at the custody hearing to witness to the cheater’s good character. She said she hoped they would reconcile. She told the judge her daughter was too intolerant and should be a more obedient wife.

My friend has never turned her back on her mother for this. She has continued to be obliged to pay the ex a stipend each month for almost 30 years because he is “disabled” and has done prison time for DUI.