Cheating Husband Wants to Date While Married

cheating husband

Her cheating husband expects her to comfort him over his failed attempts to date his coworker. Schmoopie won’t take the emotional affair to the next level and he’s crushed. But he doesn’t want a divorce, either.

****

Dear Chump Lady,

Am I being unreasonable for having a problem with my cheating husband’s ongoing relationship with a woman he tried unsuccessfully to seduce?

One night about a year ago, we both got home from our respective jobs and my husband burst into tears. I’m talking, deep, rasping sobs. With his head on my lap he told me he’d been courting a coworker for a few months, buying her gifts and taking secret time off of work to take her on day trips. When he finally put the moves on her the previous evening (he often stays late), she shut him down and said, “not going to happen.”

At first I thought his tears were bitter tears of remorse, having almost ruined a twenty-year marriage. But upon further probing, I discovered that it was the rejection that had him crying in my lap. “Just once I want to be loved!” Excuse me, hello? Who said “I do” in front of our family, our pastor, and our entire church? He explained that he was having trouble forgiving me for my initial rejection of him when we were in high school and then he dumped a laundry list of problems he had with me that could circle the planet three times.

He said the almost-OW made him feel alive.

I asked, “Well then sweetie, shall we separate?” He said no, there was no point. Oh well then, allow me to be your consolation prize! Long story short, we separated for nine months. Our fifteen-year-old son was furious with both of us. My husband and I stayed in touch and tried to work it out. He and the almost-OW never had sex and now we’re back together.

However… he has remained very good friends with the almost-OW.

He texts her regularly right in front of me.

I won’t stoop to snooping on his phone but I can see what he’s writing! It’s mildly flirtatious, which is how, incidentally, he describes their relationship. I’m positive they haven’t had sex because this woman is perfectly happy to be worshiped for free, but I have a serious problem with their relationship.

When my husband announced that he was going to meet her after work for drinks last night, I made a very snarky remark and he was furious. He told me the courtesy of telling me he was going to spend time with her was over. He maintains that he is doing absolutely nothing wrong, they are just friends, and that I’m being petty. So, am I the one being a jerk about this? Technically, my husband isn’t cheating.

Yours

Insensitive Lady-Jerk

***

Dear Perfectly Reasonable Lady,

Technically, you haven’t stuffed his balls down his throat yet.

Is this a question about technicalities?

Because uh, technically you’re still his wife and technically, he’s not supposed to go on dates until you are technically divorced.

He’s got some fucking nerve.

Sobbing about his failed dating strategies? You let this man drape his moist, snotty self all over your lap and wail about another woman?

Look, Lady, he’s a flaming asshole, but you have to stop being a chump. You separated and then took him back without any consequences or boundaries. He meets her for drinks? No, he meets her for CAKE. This whole “I’m going on dates and you’re not the boss of me!” is completely unacceptable. Start ACTING like it is unacceptable to you.

Lawyer up.

Why does he think you separated? Because you’re just mean like that? NO. Because he was openly trying to have an affair in front of you. He’s moved home, and then he goes right back to the same old shit?

Is this relationship ACCEPTABLE to YOU? Who cares if he thinks you are “petty” — do you think this kind of flagrant disrespect belongs in a marriage? If you don’t, then get your ass to a lawyer’s office. You don’t need a marriage counselor to explain to him that dating other women in front of you and then whinging about it is Wrong. If he’s that dim, you should divorce him for felony stupid.

No, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He’s being abusive. He’s being very in-your-face about his attempted infidelities to hurt you. To goad you into the pick me dance. To humiliate you. To belittle you into accepting his cake-eating as Right and Proper.

You need to shut that shit down.

For one thing, get to a lawyer fast before his employer does. You only have his side of this kibble love affair. For all you know, his advances are unwelcome and that woman is seeing an EEOC officer as we speak. This guy is walking the razor’s edge of a sexual harassment lawsuit. You need to get a settlement in place before he loses his job. She told him “not gonna happen” — next she’ll be telling that to Human Resources.

I’m sorry your 15 year old is in the middle of this, but he’s a kid and he doesn’t get to call the shots in your marriage. Staying with this asshole is modeling TERRIBLE things to him about how you treat a marriage partner. He needs to see you stand up and not tolerate abuse. He needs to see that there are consequences to disrespecting and endangering the people we purport to love. He might not like it at first. Kids want to know if their world is going to be safe (where will I spend holidays? will I see my mom and dad both? will I move away from my friends?) Get him some therapy and be the sane parent.

It doesn’t matter if the affair was physical or not.

It matters that your cheating husband is emotionally abusing you and refuses to stop.

It matters that he’s blaming YOU for some perceived slight from high school.

He doesn’t get to do everything short of fuck her and then claim it’s A-okay because he didn’t consummate the act. The issue is that he wants to live like a single person, but enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage. He demands to right to pursue his dick’s delight more than he cares about your feelings. You can’t work with that. You can only divorce it.

When you serve him papers, say “Just once you want to be loved? Here’s your freedom. Have at it.”

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MrWonderful’sEx
MrWonderful’sEx
1 year ago

I would love to see an update from OP. I hope she filed and is living a life free of this wacko’s behavior.

Klootzak tried to claim he hadn’t actually had sex with anyone else, either. His open flirting? He would play dumb like I was imagining it all. It’s all a mindfuck to keep you stuck. It’s no way to live.

He felt slighted since high school. Let that shit sink in. The 20+ years they have been married that she has loved and cared for him are nothing and he deserves the right to date because she is so horrible and he felt slighted by her in HIGH SCHOOL. Holy crow. He has a million complaints about her but doesn’t want divorce because that would mean consequences.

They are all so boringly alike.

Apidae
Apidae
1 year ago

And of course he hasn’t REALLY felt slighted since high school. He probably didn’t even feel particularly slighted then! This is oh so typical retconning – combing through a lifetime of potential “slights” to find some justification for what he wanted to do anyway.

I hope the OP snapped out of it.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
1 year ago

MrWonderful’sEx, this struck me too! He married her and spent DECADES with her while supposedly holding this petty resentment all the while.

My ex tried to pull that shit too, when he whined that Schmoopie did xyz for him and I needed to pick me dance better. Ok, I said, tell me exactly what your problem is. He led with shit from 10-15 years ago, some from when we had been dating for just a few months and barely knew each other – all from before we had kids. Are you kidding me?? For the sake of argument, let’s say that his complaints prove what a horrible bitch I am. Why the hell did he propose? Then he had 3 more years to reconsider before I was pregnant, and nary a word to me about any concerns he purportedly had. I called bullshit on all of it.

Either they are pathetic cowards that sit around and stew over petty resentments without saying or doing a damn thing about it, or they are pathetic cowards that make up lame resentments just so they don’t have to take ownership of their own actions.

It doesn’t matter which, I’m not going to devote my life to a pathetic coward either way. Hope she divorced his weak, cowardly ass.

BetterDays
BetterDays
1 year ago

Hoping for an update too. This post gets me every time I see it. The idea of that entitled asshat sobbing all over his wife because he’s sad he got rejected by another woman … omg, no words for that awfulness.

I got suckered into that “not technically cheating” bullcrap too. FW was soliciting hookers and strangers off Craigslist while I was pregnant. He swore it was just “fantasy and flirtation” and chumpy me decided to believe him. And somehow I thought that if he hadn’t TECHNICALLY cheated, then I shouldn’t blow up my marriage. For years after that, he got away with dating whores right under my nose because they were just friends, I was just jealous, yada yada yada.

For any new chumps who are caught in this mindfuck – he was lying to my face and fucking everything that moves until I divorced his abusive ass and went on to live a much happier, peaceful, fuckwit-free life.

GrandmaChump
GrandmaChump
1 month ago
Reply to  BetterDays

fyi: Yada, yada… It’s Hebrew, means “to know” in the biblical sense of the word. A “free” way to repeat the “F” word three times. Whoever – Jewever? – introduced the expression must still be laughing. I know I am…have been ever since I looked up the words for “knew his wife.”

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

I got a face full of that before D-Day. One February I had traveled with the kids while our son received extended medical treatment. FW was supposed to show up where we were for Valentine’s but tried to change the travel dates using work as an excuse. I was shocked so he relented and flew in the morning of the 14th. I could see the rage on his face the instant he showed up. Little did I know that Schmoops/howorker had gone into a blind rage when she learned she’d only get side chick Valentine’s Day, not the real day which would have been taken by her as a sign she was winning the pickme death match and wasn’t just a cheap bit on the side. She broke it off with him for three weeks to punish him. He took it all out on me and was like Jack Nicholson from The Shining that week, just without the ax. For the first time, the binge drinking that he’d hidden for two years became visible to me and the kids. I wouldn’t say he was acting mopey and heartbroken, more like a crackhead drying out in prison or a serial killer whose prey got away.

I heard later from one of Schmoop’s frenemies that she’d held a drunken war council with friends after FW bailed on their V-Day plans and the council decided that three weeks was the proper amount of time to punish his dick and get him into line. After that period she began casually calling and texting again, the affair cranked back up for another month or so before the cat got out of the smelly bag. It seems her blathering anger over Valentine’s Day and subsequent plan to get accidentally-on-purpose pregnant breached the office gossip levies and is what led to two workplace whistleblowers sending me evidence.

LadybugChump
LadybugChump
1 year ago

Oh wow. The council. That is funny but it’s not.
Valentines Day was the best opportunity for his cake and kibbles. One year while we were separated he comes to my workplace with a flowering plant and beautiful card and then goes to her. This happened several years. Apparently I was the frog in boiling water because by the last one, I was was just watching it like a movie as he made some excuse about leaving quickly. Of course, he was going to her house.

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  LadybugChump

I love Valentine’s Day because it’s the day I had fuckwit served. The rat faced whore opened the door to the process server. ????????

The process server told me afterwards, “he looked absolutely furious”. ????????????

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  Chumpnomore6

I would pay money to see a photo of this. Process servers should wear body cams.

Chumpedonthewayout
Chumpedonthewayout
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

I completely agree with your statement about the sobbing asshat. One time the cheater and I were at a bar and he returned from the restroom and started bad-mouthing a stranger to me. At the time I didn’t understand what was going on, but now I’m 100% sure he came on to her, was rejected, and came to me (HIS WIFE!!) for commiseration. What an asshole.

oldcrone
oldcrone
1 year ago

After the FIRST long-term AP was discovered (yeah, I was a chump), the marriage counselor told me that I needed to help HIM get over the loss of his married OW. He had a sadz and was so distraught about losing his skank that I had to bury my feelings and focus on his pain.
And I tried to do it through lots of horizontal pick-me dancing, not bringing up the affair and plenty of alone time for him while I continued working full-time, doing all household chores and raising our kids. Really, this was not much different than before DDay other than the further crushing of my spirit while trying to please someone who could never be happy unless he was continually on the prowl for new partners.
Why should we have to console these disordered pieces of shit when they are the ones who are hurting people?

LadybugChump
LadybugChump
1 year ago
Reply to  oldcrone

The crushing is so invisible that one doesn’t even realize that one’s own choices and actions are doing it… until later.

BetterDays
BetterDays
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

Also for the new chumps – I forgot to say that I realized after D-Day I wasted years worrying about whether or not he was cheating when I should have dumped him for being an asshole to me, cheater or not. It’s such a common story here – the fuckwit is engaged in all sorts of abusive behavior but the chump is focused on whether there’s cheating and whether the relationship can be repaired.

The biggest lesson I learned from this trauma is that someone is treating you poorly, LEAVE.

Lee Chump
Lee Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

This times a million. Just leave.

MehBeSoon
MehBeSoon
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

I agree! I spent so much time trying to convince myself it was “just” an emotional affair, but the emotional abuse was so unacceptable in any case. I remember having an out-of-body experience trying to explain to my husband of then 20 years why it wasn’t “okay” for him to have a “secret” friendship with a woman. At the time I could not believe that he was discounting my feelings so much, but in hindsight, I realize he had done so in so many ways, big and small, throughout the marriage. And of course the “emotional” affair did not lead to regret/remorse on his part, just more abusive and affairs until his cruel, brutal discard.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  MehBeSoon

Yes and me so hurt and abused, counseled him on his poor choices and why they were not good for him. He picked the creepiest woman, so I knew I was head over head better than them..no worries at all? But that’s what he wanted. I was boring. As I said many times, I did the pick me dance when I had no idea he was connecting to creepy woman and I was sure o always won. But he was underground and the layers of creepy woman won every time. My daughter observed my decline into dancing to outrun the creeps. For this I will beat myself up forever.

Enough
Enough
1 year ago
Reply to  MehBeSoon

This describes my situation perfectly! He’s had “secret friendships” with three women in the last several years – that I know of. He’s sworn on his son’s life that he hasn’t had sex with any of them, but I’ve caught him in so many lies at this point, God only knows what the actual truth is. That out-of-body feeling you get when you’re trying to explain why their behavior and dishonesty is wrong is TRAUMA resulting from being gaslighted and devalued. I asked my FW two nights ago if he would date the one he admits he has “feelings” for if we split up. He said he doesn’t know, she lives two states away so he would probably just advertise on Match. Getting my ducks in a row…

Elsie
Elsie
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

Yes, the bad treatment is why I decided not to reconcile. He idolized a former girlfriend of decades before and ran to the area of the country where she last lived when we separated. He had his male hormones and blue pills with him. He also shared with me about all the waitresses who were doting on him there and how generous and caring he was to them. I have a waitress friend who also had a “gray divorce,” and she said that she always warns the younger gals about overly familiar and generous customers like that.

Later, my attorney said he “smelled” other woman all over my case, but I chose not to pay a PI. I just wanted it over with a decent settlement, which we got.

My ex’s actions communicated everything I needed to know.

Julia Mynatt Axley
Julia Mynatt Axley
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

My story too. I wasted many years “wondering” and being abused when in fact he was for many years with multiple women Incidentally, most of them were high school friends because he was “slighted” too, as divorce interrogatories named them all,, all 8 of them in 10 years. I filed for divorce when he left after the one he is with now called and told me to let him go. Some “woman” she is! “Jolene, you can have him!! Dolly”

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago

My first cheater OW called and hung up or asked WHERE IS HE!? I didn’t even guess right. I was beaten down, traumatized and pregnant.

GrandmaChump
GrandmaChump
1 month ago

Check out the amusing, not whiny, “You can have him, Jolene” by Chapel
Hart

Conchobara
Conchobara
1 month ago
Reply to  GrandmaChump

I love that song!

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

Agreed. And that “technically I’m not cheating” line they feed you is a lie. I 99.9% guarantee it. FW bent over backwards to assure me that while he was pursuing OW#1 that he would never, EVER actually cheat on me. “My God, how could you think that of me. You’ve got a lot of nerve!”

When I showed him the STI results from my trip to the doctor’s he told me that I must have caught it at the hospital having our baby because “those places are full of germs.”

After I took him back he started pursuing GF#3/Wifetress right in front of me and claiming alllll the way up until separation papers were signed (again) that he and she were waiting until those separation papers were signed to have sex “out of respect for me.” He was moving his suitcases out of our home and into his third extramarital GF’s house and still was trying to play the “I’m technically not cheating” card.

I do not believe for one minute that just because they say so that the pants of a cheater stay on. They’re too heavy because their pockets are full of bridges they want to sell you.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
1 year ago
Reply to  Fourleaf

Yeah, FW swore he wasn’t having sex with OW, she was “just a friend”, she wasn’t his type, he just wanted to do projects with her, yada yada yada. He called me crazy for suspecting more. He got angry when I pointed out his flirting with her. She swore there was “nothing going on”.

He was fucking her from the beginning.

Gentle reader
Gentle reader
1 year ago

I would like to know the update. Hopefully she got to a lawyer before he wiped her out.

chumped48
chumped48
1 year ago

ah… the “emotional affair” excuse- I fell for that for 15 years. Every “friend” I talked to about the affairs encouraged me to stay with him, and some even pointed out some of my “flaws” as the cause of the cheating. It wasn’t until HE asked for a divorce (and then didn’t actually file) that I finally saw what he was. Hopefully, the OP got out of this. The audacity on this one is all. too. familiar.

MehBeSoon
MehBeSoon
1 year ago
Reply to  chumped48

Same here, from the “emotional” affair that was such an abusive mindfuck, right down to asking for a divorce and then not filing and because he was already “divorced in his mind.”

FuckThatShit
FuckThatShit
1 year ago
Reply to  MehBeSoon

We were married to the same guy… continuously flirting and dating and letting me do all the work including filing for divorce in the end. Nobody could control him and tell him what to do… especially not mean mommy-wife. Well I quit that job, OW can have it.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  FuckThatShit

Mommy-wife. Lol– EWWWWW.

I always cringed when women would joke about “jealous” they’d be once their sons began dating. I just don’t have that chip. I’ll be happy when my sons partner up and I would tell them to shape up if I ever found them mistreating girlfriends. By the same non-blurred-lines token, I have zero attraction to adult manbabies who try to put me in the mummy role.

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
1 year ago
Reply to  MehBeSoon

Oh dear goodness, yes. The “I’m already divorced in my mind so I can do what I like because I feel single” line. He fed me, the “very much in love with him and very much married in my mind to him” wife that one too.

Cuzchump
Cuzchump
1 year ago

I hope she divorced his lying ass. My ex said he and my cousin were just friends. They never had sex. He only kept her secret for 4 years. I do not think that any adult dates for long periods of time and do not have sex.We are only friends is just an excuse and another lie.

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Cuzchump

“I hope she divorced his lying ass.”

Yep.

In a marriage there is no dating, it is called adultery. He didn’t like it when I told him that. He then made it clear that he made the first move on whore. Like that sanctified her. I am pretty sure that they behaved just like alley cats. She arched and stretched, and he hopped on it.

Yes that is a bit graphic, but I am so sick of the romanticizing of adultery. It is basic rutting. If it wasn’t and the whores (both sexes) were so wonderful, they would not lie about it and sneak around for years. Take the sneak out of it, all the excitement dies down.

Doingme
Doingme
1 year ago
Reply to  susie lee

Divorcing his lying ass leads to more consequences than a chump can imagine. Yes, we initially take a hit yet they can no longer cry in our lap. Least we not forget they likely tell the many more lies to snag the desperate ho. And one day they wake up to the worst mistake of their life while we are free! I doubt the AP thought she’d have to budget for depends or his back going out every time he cheated. Nothing romantic about scoring a cheater

MichelleShocked
MichelleShocked
1 year ago
Reply to  Cuzchump

Cuzchump, I agree. There is NO WAY FW is going on daydates and to bars repeatedly and not getting any. He’s a liar. But it’s a great way to manipulate and gaslight right? How can she leave him if he isn’t “technically cheating”? You can hear how confused it makes a Chump. Meanwhile FW tells AP, “my wife knows I am seeing you. She lets me and doesn’t care.” Easy peasy triangulation.

GrandmaChump
GrandmaChump
1 month ago

He can honestly say he isn’t “technically cheating” because he isn’t; he’s actually cheating.

SeriouslyChumped
SeriouslyChumped
1 year ago

my wife knows I am seeing cuz. She lets me and doesn’t care.”
I found it on his profile!!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago

Or this is just the one he’s chasing for the moment but there have been many others who were more easily had. The latest object of his fixation being hard to get might have been what made him break down enough for a dab of truth to come out but the OP’s FW sounds like he’s banged many a rando in the past and so was UNACCUSTOMED to being told no.
If the current fixation wasn’t mutually flirting, there may have been a slight chance she just thought this was some work mentor being friendly or that she felt slightly intimidated and was playing nice to keep her job. But since the OP reports the woman is flirting back, I’m wondering what she’s getting out of it. Sounds like a work-related hustle for promotion or perks or they both have a mutual coke habit and she’s getting stash from him. In any case, she’s hardly clean and it’s problematic enough when a partner starts hanging out with scumbags whether or not they’re having sex.

ChumpMD
ChumpMD
1 year ago

My ex also insisted he never had sex with any of the other women he was courting behind my back. It does screw with your head so much because you want to believe the marriage can be fixed if there may not have been intercourse. Someone had also told me there needs to be some sort of evidence for a divorce based on adultery.
Another post a while back made the analogy between dating someone while married and “not having sex” to showing up at a bank with masks, loaded weapons and a ransom note. Just because you don’t complete the robbery and walk away with the cash doesn’t mean you didn’t break the law.
Anyway, that analogy helps me get through the times when I question myself. I hope the OP was able to break free from the craziness.

Apidae
Apidae
1 year ago

Well, there is one way – if the “OW” is in no way an OP but is someone he is sexually harassing. We only have the FW’s version of his grand romance. On the other end of his story could very well be a woman trying to figure out a way to politely refuse her creepy boss’s gifts and attention without torpedoing her career.

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  Apidae

“On the other end of his story could very well be a woman trying to figure out a way to politely refuse her creepy boss’s gifts and attention without torpedoing her career”

Fuck no. The whore was still texting him, and “going out for drinks” right in the OO’s face. The whore was fucking him.

I so hope the OP kicked that fuckers arse to the kerb.

Apidae
Apidae
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpnomore6

HE is texting HER right in the OP’s face. HE is telling the OP that he is lavishing gifts and attention on a woman who…. won’t fuck him or have a relationship with him? HE is the one who sobbed in the OP’s lap when the object of his desires put her foot down and said no. HE is the one who continually chases her.

There’s one version of these facts where the other woman is intentionally taking him for a financial ride. And there’s another version where a woman is trying to walk the tightrope of holding a creepy co-worker at arm’s length without enraging him or “being a bitch” so that everyone blames her when he tries to ruin her career (or worse).

I’m really glad if you don’t know anyone in that second situation, but let’s not pretend that a FW who cries to HIS OWN WIFE because another woman refused to fuck him is the kind of guy who has good professional boundaries and treats his female colleagues with respect.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Apidae

THIS. The whole scenario just reeks of the entitlement of mental illness. Who tells their spouse that they’re upset someone won’t date them – so utterly bizarre, but that’s when you know you’re not the spouse anymore…you’re Mommy or Daddy and that’s the time to end it.

Elsie
Elsie
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpnomore6

My thoughts exactly. I worked in a male-dominated field, and never-ever went out solo with a coworker for a drink after work. Not ever. It just seemed off to me even though that was ages ago before these things were really talked about. I also didn’t call them at home. That was before cell phones, but I kept it all at work and professional. Sure I had male friends at work and sometimes rode in cars and had lunch with them alone (sorry, Mike Pence). I had a boss that I went to the opera with because his now-husband hated the opera. But there was a line that I never crossed with people at work.

This OW is crossing the line.

BrokenPicker
BrokenPicker
1 year ago

Also lying to the AP that he never has sex with the wife, no doubt.

Grammer Nerd
Grammer Nerd
1 year ago

Chump Lady – no offense, but you need to invest in an editor. There are a number of errors in your reply above, in addition to improper capitalization and punctuation errors. I also found errors in your “about” bio and was surprised to find that you are a native English speaker. I’m sure this comment will sound trivial to you, but you are a writer… and you should write correctly, if not well. I’m sure there are other people out there, like myself, who enjoy your wit and tough love approach, but could never imagine buying your book, for fear of losing my mind in errors. Just saying… finding someone to proofread your replies & your website text may help with book sales.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

I don’t think CL has any problems with book sales. I try to promote her books & site wherever I go and I know everyone else does too. And she knows how to spell “grammar”.

Observer
Observer
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Really, GRAMMAR Nerd?

Nemesis
Nemesis
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Don’t feed the troll. ????????

Shell
Shell
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

No offense, but you spelled “grammar” wrong, Dear. Even if it’s intentional, it is terrible optics to criticize someone’s spelling when you have something misspelled yourself.

loch
loch
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Whew. Wound a bit too tight for me, grammar karen.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
1 year ago
Reply to  loch

My money is on Grammer Nerd being a guy. Graham or Graeme. It’s already been noted but “grammar” is the correct spelling, NOT “grammer”. It bore repeating. ????????????

Suzy
Suzy
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Do you mean grammar? As in grammAR?

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Elegant reply, CL, especially considering English isn’t your first language.????????????????????????

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Fuck off.

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpnomore6

To “grammer nerd”.

Incidentally, fuckwit, it’s *grammar*, not ‘grammer’.

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

lol, this guy. It’s a blog dude, turns out perfection is not required and, indeed, is sometimes exactly the wrong thing. CL’s casual way of writing is pure magic. Go troll someplace else.

Apidae
Apidae
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Your username and comment have spelling and punctuation errors. You might want to fix that next time you appoint yourself somebody else’s editor.

Valerie
Valerie
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

I smell a pineapple.

WelshBird
WelshBird
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

WOW! Gaslighting much!
Is that enough capitalisation and unnecessary use of exclamation marks for you? *note: there is an incorrect use of a comma in your response – I’ll let you find it 😉

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

“I’m sure this comment will sound trivial to you”

Well, at least you’re aware of how frivolous your comments are. So why did you post them?

Since you’re all about proper writing, I have done you a favor and edited the errors and inept writing out of your post. I kept your ideas intact, but focused on the clumsy way you expressed them.

“Dear Chump Lady,
While I mean no offense to you personally, I believe you need to invest in an editor. There are a number of errors in your reply to today’s letter, including improper capitalization and punctuation. I also found errors in your bio and was surprised to find that you are a native English speaker. I’m sure this comment will sound trivial to you, but you are a writer, so you should at least write correctly, if not well. I’m sure there are other people out there who, like myself, enjoy your wit and tough love approach, but could never imagine buying your book for fear of losing their minds over the errors. I’m just saying that finding someone to proofread your replies and your website text may help you with your book sales.
Yours truly,
Some Silly Fucking Troll”

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Meant to say “who, much like myself.”

KB22
KB22
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

You are either a troll or just a pain in the ass, suck the oxygen out of the room dolt. Oh and feel free to knock yourself out correcting my punctuation.

The Universals Meh
The Universals Meh
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Incorrect use of the word ‘improper’. HTH

oldcrone
oldcrone
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

“Grammer Nerd” – After reading the responses to your comment thus far, I’m surprised that no one else has said what many are probably thinking. So I’ll say it:
FUCK OFF!
And I sincerely hope you took offense.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  oldcrone

It’s people like this super creep who needs to be tossed in the fire and turned into ashes to be blown away in the hurricane winds of Florida. Go away , can we 🚫 block (IT) Like I did to my X this week when he used another phone number to get my response?? It startles me to be further damaged by Jerks in this beautiful place of CN and my beloved CL. Tracy, you are loved, write however you do, I can’t live a day without you.

BetterDays
BetterDays
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Grammar

— is how one types an em dash but a comma is the preferred use here.

“About” bio

Like me

Ellipses require a space both before and after the three dots. You have also used them incorrectly here.

Spelling out “and” instead of using an ampersand would be a better stylistic match for the pompous tone of your reply.

The phrase “losing my mind in errors” should be “losing my mind from errors” unless you intended the Freudian slip of losing your mind in errors of your own making.

Just sayin’.

I can't think of a good name
I can't think of a good name
1 year ago
Reply to  BetterDays

I have always enjoyed a designer/decorator from the early days of decorating TV. Christopher Lowell is his name, I think. I can’t read his social posts that are really blogs. They are so poorly written, and not edited at all. I so want to send him a message of support — his design is so much about balance, editing, a “clean” look, his writing not so much. But I don’t because it’s rude. And I write for a living.

❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

For some reason I was suddenly inspired to Google “Miss Manners bad houseguests” just now. There is a wealth of information on bad houseguest behavior, how to deal with bad houseguests, and how to be a polite houseguest.

“Etiquette does not require you to accept being insulted in your own house. Nor does it allow you to insult your guest, and Miss Manners congratulates you for getting around that by confining yourself to a frigid tone and assistance with transportation.”

I have no idea where this urge came from. It may be because we are talking about cheaters here at Chump Lady’s house.

I do want to take a moment to thank Chump Lady at group level for inviting me over to her house today.

Adelante
Adelante
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Grammer [sic] Nerd,
Unless your moniker “Grammer Nerd” is supposed to be a play on “Gramma” (grandmother) you don’t have a leg to stand on. It’s “grammar,” not “grammer.” As for “like myself”? The correct form is “me”; myself is a reflexive.
And, if you don’t know it, CL makes her living by writing. People pay her for it.

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Is that you Esther?

ChumpBucket
ChumpBucket
1 year ago
Reply to  susie lee

????????

Naola
Naola
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Who are you and who asked for your opinion on her grammar, this is not the place for trolls please

Lee Chump
Lee Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

Surely the GNerd is a troll. Or an RIC person or whatever.

Trawna
Trawna
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

There is a special narcissistic brand of person that picks apart grammar when they don’t like the message….

Doingme
Doingme
1 year ago
Reply to  Trawna

Yes, and we know how they love believing they’re SPECIAL. Winning the prize must have caught up with the. TROLL.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  Trawna

Nobody has perfect grammar or spelling all the time, least of all our lovely new friend Grammer Doooshe, so we should not expect it of others.

weedfree
weedfree
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

yes and sometimes CL uses capital letters IN the middle of a SENTENCE it’s an ABSOLUTE disgrace and someONE must be SACRIFICED to the grammar BEAST and I nominate Grammer NERD

MichelleShocked
MichelleShocked
1 year ago
Reply to  Grammer Nerd

In case CL doesn’t have the opportunity to address this while on the road, I will. This is not a blog about how to be a better writer. This is a place for chumps to vent and learn. This is also CL’s safe space. You are completely out of line. Who are you to criticize and make abusive statements like “(I) was surprised to find that you are a native English speaker.” WTF? Indeed your writing full of “…” , which isn’t grammatically correct either. BTW, Grammer Nerd, “grammar” is spelled with an “ar.”

Just stop, ok? Wrong place for this kind of garbage. Yours is not constructive criticism and it doesn’t belong on this site.

Bubbachump
Bubbachump
1 year ago

I get annoyed with typos and grammar errors as well, but at no time would I have ever thought CL was not a native English speaker. That is just an absurd statement. I also just let it go, because shit happens.

Brit
Brit
1 year ago

Unacceptable, “Grammer Nerd.”

Couldn’t imagine buying her book, for fear of losing your mind??

Then don’t buy the book.

I smell a troll..

Bubbachump
Bubbachump
1 year ago
Reply to  Brit

Probably a cheater.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  Brit

Grammer Dooshe must surely be aware that books are edited before being published, so the comment about fearing errors in the book was moronic.

KatiePig
KatiePig
1 year ago
Reply to  Brit

It’s a troll. I’m very familiar with this type of “person.” It’s “oh so concerned” and just trying to help because “Heaven’s to Betsy, you wouldn’t want to look STUPID, would you?”

It took it too far with it’s insults though. No sane person thinks chump lady sounds like someone who learned English as a second language. Anyone who claims they are SHOCKED to learn she’s a native English speaker is simply a liar looking to insult her.

Grammar Nerd has said fucked up things here before. It’s either a FW or a whore.

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Has ‘Grammer Nerd’ been here before then? What a twunt.

Lucky
Lucky
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpnomore6

“Twunt” ….my favourite new word.
Grammar that. Then bite me nerd.

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  Lucky

????????

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Right, KP. That was classic concern trolling.

weedfree
weedfree
1 year ago

I think there is a stage in recovery from betrayal where you read stories like this and think what the hell are you doing ~ run. It isn’t stage meh but it must be close. Anyone going through this now please stay on CN until you get yourself out of the cognitive dissonance that keeps you tethered to these lying abusive wankers. I was gripped in the first year or so after D Day with the stories of betrayal on SI, and the pages and pages of advice people were given trying to work out whether they should leave. I could totally relate. Now I read one line and think isnt it obvious? Why are you going around in circles, why do you need strangers onthe internet telling you what to do ~ run! Thank you to CL and the people who patiently post on here providing guidance to strangers on the internet helping us through some very dark and confusing times. I suspect you have saved some lives along the way. The obvious isnt at all obvious when you are being lied to and abused.

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  weedfree

“Anyone going through this now please stay on CN until you get yourself out of the cognitive dissonance that keeps you tethered to these lying abusive wankers.”

I agree.

I so wish I had CL in my dark days. Fear, humiliation, shock. I didn’t understand that within a few months the man I was so afraid of losing would soon make me physically ill. I think in many cases (certainly in my case) we had been abused for a while, and just kept taking it because we thought that guy we knew would snap back and all the pain would disappear.

We don’t know until later that even if they do snap back, they are still the person who brutally betrayed us for month (or years).

I sometimes envy those whose fw immediately begged them to come back and supposedly dumped the whore. But, now I know that in most cases all that did was drag out the pain longer for the betrayed. That hopium can kill you emotionally; if not physically.

Elsie
Elsie
1 year ago
Reply to  susie lee

Yes, it takes so very long to get out of the fog and get your head together. I’m very sympathetic, but yes it jumped out immediately for me too. Just say NO.

There was a gal locally that I was helping in our type of situation that started playing games. I actually ended a meeting with her because I had to pick up a car, or a relative couldn’t leave on a business trip early the next morning. I told her how long I had, and we were over time as it was. When she became demanding, I told her that technically I’m never free (work, relatives, managing my health, etc.), but that I can give my time when I choose to do so.

Later she texted me when I was having dinner with family, wanting to talk. I told her that I was unavailable and that we could talk at a better time for us both. Nope. Silence. I’m not going to be bullied. I’m done with manipulators. I wish her well.

TheDivineMissChump
TheDivineMissChump
1 year ago
Reply to  weedfree

Here, here! Today marks my one year anniversary of freedom from cheating bastard ex. The day after tomorrow will mark the anniversary of purchasing LACGAL on my Kindle app.
During a phone conversation with a dear friend last night, I made the statement that while I wouldn’t wish what I went through last year on anyone, it has been the best year of my life.
There is no way to quantify how much CL and CN has helped me on the journey to meh.
During those early days, reading the brave stories that constantly reinforced my decision to walk away was life changing for me. And I would never have known how crucial it would become to go NC and stay that way.
So yes, Weedfree, I stand as testament of a life being saved.
Turns out, I wasn’t irretrievably broken, but fucking mighty. And divine…????

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago

Congratulations on a year of delicious freedom! ????

ChumpedForANewerModel
ChumpedForANewerModel
1 year ago

I sure hope the OP is free now. This is typical FW behavior, they want to be married and to be able to date. It doesn’t work that way. Sure, everyone has grievances about their spouse but taking it back over 20 years is a bit over the top. No one is perfect but this guy is plainly a cake eater. Taking him back is just giving him more cake. Put him on a diet and serve him for divorce.

FuckThatShit
FuckThatShit
1 year ago

That’s right!

That reminds me of when my ex FW decided to walk out on me and our kids out of the blue, and ask for a divorce without giving any reason. I was supposed to go for it and soldier on, « for the kids ». I was so angry at him for this and how horribly he had treated me for years, and especially the last one when he was trying to get rid of me. He was serving me word salad about how he got married too young and should be allowed to fuck (sic) whoever he liked. I lost it and told him « you’re like a fat kid who is hiding to eat cake. You can hide, you’re still fat. ». It was before I found CL and CN, but cake eating is such a perfect description for what they do.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  FuckThatShit

A blunt instrument is the most effective.

ChumpedForANewerModel
ChumpedForANewerModel
1 year ago
Reply to  FuckThatShit

Yes!!! I just passed the one year anniversary of DDay1. When I confronted him at the time, the word salad just poured out. He brought up things I said like 30 years ago!!!! Of course, I was the one to blame for everything! Once I found CL (two months after DDay1), I saw the pattern. He just wanted me to do some more active pick me dancing. That did not happen. I lawyered up and then the crap got worse. It has been a huge battle over the last six or so months. He thought he could abuse me through the legal system but my lawyer shut that down. Now that he has to pay my attorney’s fees, he seems more willing to settle. I think the judge is now well aware of his lying as is his lawyer so my hope is that this will start to resolve.

IcanseeTuesday
IcanseeTuesday
1 year ago

This story is so fucking predictable. Cheaters and their apologists control the narrative until they are stopped with consequences.

If you’re still with a cheater, read the archives for how to plan and implement those consequences. Justice and healing begins with no contact and filing for divorce.

M
M
1 year ago

If you want to act like a single man, be a single man.

LookingForwardstoTuesday
LookingForwardstoTuesday
1 year ago

ILJ,

By your definition your husband isn’t cheating because he “technically hasn’t cheated.” I’d suggest that he’s “technically” doing a great job of trying to cheat … and that’s before you consider that you only appear to know what he’s telling you. Please understand that Cheaters will do everything that they can to downplay their activities and to deny that they are up to no good ….. like that time that now-Ex Mrs LFTT tried to convince me that she wasn’t a having an affair and that she had been secretly meeting up with an old boyfriend of hers for quite some while was none of my business.

I would respectfully suggest that you push the bar up a bit ….. well, a lot actually.

LFTT

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago

Yep wouldn’t surprise me if they did the deed and then she dumped the clumsy oaf and he was heart broken.

LookingForwardstoTuesday
LookingForwardstoTuesday
1 year ago
Reply to  susie lee

SL,

Part of the mindf*ck here is that the OW seems happy to be courted by a married man – but not go the whole way – and that the married man seems to revel in doing so, even though he is aware of how it traumatises his wife.

I really hope that ILJ kicked him to the kerb and got their son some help; he (the son) needs to understand that it’s OK to get mad at his dad for what his dad has done/is doing, but that he doesn’t get to get mad at him mum for saying that this is unacceptable.

LFTT

Carol39
Carol39
1 year ago

This FW sounds almost exactly like my ex. He hired teenage girls as summer help in his construction business–only teenage girls. And he would “kindly” give them a ride to work in the morning–to do outdoor work in July, dressed in mini-shorts and tank tops. I kept trying to protest that it looked weird and that he should hire some boys too, but he always insisted that girls were better workers and that I was just paranoid. Then I caught him texting one of the girls while she was on a family vacation about how much he missed her and “how is the vacation going”? I told him it was inappropriate to text teenage girl employees personal stuff. He said, “She’s my friend!” I said, “You are 50 years old! You can’t be friends with a 17-year-old girl!” He said I was just sexist and dirty-minded about their relationship, and he said he couldn’t run his business if I kept interfering. Then when she left to go back to college, she stopped responding to his texts, and he actually came home and cried to me that he now realized he was “nothing more than a boss to her,” and that she had only texted him to keep her job. Well, duh. What 17-year-old girl thinks texting 50-year-old obese dudes is a fun afternoon? I later found evidence in a sexual fantasy he secretly composed about her. I don’t think he ever acted on it, but only because she stopped responding to his texts.

My ex always seemed to have this vision of himself as perpetually 21 years old and good-looking. When the marriage blew up, he told me that I was too old for him now, and that he was more attracted to college girls. I was ten years younger than him. He now lives alone in a mobile home park in Texas, and he can’t seem to fathom why those hot college girls aren’t lining up at his door.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Carol39

I know this is old, but I’m so sorry. It must be so horrible to find out that your husband is just a basic creep. Personally I was never attracted to teens even when I was one, but I can’t imagine looking at teenage males now and lusting after them, it’s so fucking creepy and wrong. Some people can’t grow out of the teenage stage or they keep going back to it.

Apidae
Apidae
1 year ago
Reply to  Carol39

Those poor girls. What a creep. You’re well rid of him.

This loser sounds a lot like your ex:
https://captainawkward.com/2015/03/14/678-am-i-the-next-bill-cosby-no-thankfully-youre-just-really-sexist/

Carol39
Carol39
1 year ago
Reply to  Apidae

Wow! I feel like my ex could have written that! The circumstances weren’t quite the same, but pretty close! And yes, he encouraged the girls to tell him all about their lives, their boyfriends, their complaints about their parents, etc. I would say, “You don’t need to know all this stuff! Stop talking about boyfriends and crushes with teenage girls at work!” And then he would tell me I was paranoid, and the girls liked to talk to him, etc, etc. The difficult thing was that I am strongly in favor of girls having equal opportunity in the workplace. If he had reasonable boundaries, it would have been fine. But I knew this was really his fantasy about finding some young, hot girl to replace me.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  Carol39

“He now lives alone in a mobile home park in Texas, and he can’t seem to fathom why those hot college girls aren’t lining up at his door.”

A perfectly fitting end for him.

Newlady15
Newlady15
1 year ago
Reply to  Carol39

Wow Carol39 . Delusional much???

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Carol39

I remember the first time I got really pissed about ageism against women. It was when I was in my late 20’s early thirties’, still young. I adored Dean Martin’s singing and I was watching him on a talk show. He said in answer to a question about becoming a grandfather “I have no issue becoming a grandfather, but I don’t want to sleep with a grandmother”. Hated him after that.

FuckWitFree
FuckWitFree
1 year ago

First, I do enjoy how trolls are eaten as a delicacy breakfast around here.

Second, I agree with many here who are remarking about the degenerate patterning of entitled-cheat-whine-complain-gaslight-repeat. If I had found CL and CN years ago, I’d be divorced years ago. Simple reason? Cognitive dissonance and denial are survival strategies when you’re being abused. It’s a match made in hell. It’s why children don’t call the cops on parents who abuse them. It takes a while, and pulling back, to see what’s really going on and let that sink in.

For years I kept a log of asshat’s abuses and rages under the title of “Books to read,” knowing he’d never look there on the computer. After secretly reading another book about abuse I found in the library, the entirety of this problem came into focus: I’m keeping a LOG of his ABUSE. And I’ve been doing it for NINE years.

I’m four years out from kicking him out, and it still hurts a lot, but vision is clear. It takes leaving most of the time to make that happen and break the trauma bonding. I sure hope this writer got the fuck out from this slobbering, entitled wanker fuckwit.

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  FuckWitFree

“Cognitive dissonance and denial are survival strategies when you’re being abused. ”

I used to wonder why women stayed with men who physically abused them. Then for several months I stayed with a fuckwit who was screaming at me, staying out all night, complaining about every move I made. I spackled like a mad woman.

He was trying to get me to kick him out I am pretty sure; so he could pull whore out of the alley and present her as his new gal, since crazy ass Susie kicked him out. He could leverage his power and get her reassigned so he could “date” her and he would be on top of the world.

Unfortunately for him, someone filed an ethics complaint against him for his relationship with his direct report; and his whole adult life of work and my work in his behalf tumbled around him.

I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when the mayor brought him in and busted him. Bet he thought that no one would ever know he was calling her and she him non stop day and night. It was a company provided cell phone. Duh.

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
1 year ago

My first d-day was the exact same. He sobbed about propositioning one of our friends (right after I had a baby of course) and getting rejected. He wailed: “NO ONE loves me! NO ONE!!” I tried to leave then, but my family put a lot of pressure to stay married “for the kids,” and I was stuck in the thought that he hadn’t “technically” cheated.

Almost 20 years later here’s what I know:

1. I was taking the word of a liar.
2. Whenever he played the victim like this he was totally guilty. The sobbing/drama/crisis was a distraction and manipulation.
3. Staying together for the kids destroyed my mental health.
4. My mental health declining made me a worse parent. It made my kids’ life worse.
5. There is NOTHING I could have done to please him. He has an empty void inside him that is unfillable.

I hope the OP got away. As much as we adulate someone bravely walking over hot coals, you can’t stay standing for years on them.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  NotAnymore

“He wailed: “NO ONE loves me! NO ONE!!” ”

Bastard!

Adelante
Adelante
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Yeah. In the immortal words of my Marine nephew: Boo-fucking-hoo.

MehBeSoon
MehBeSoon
1 year ago
Reply to  NotAnymore

Same. I tried to stay together “for the kids” after finding out about an “emotional affair” and all that did was make me a worse parent because I was barely functioning as a result of all the gaslighting, cognitive dissonance, denial, etc. Instead of showing remorse, regret, etc., as he promised, he escalated the abuse and infidelity, all the while making me feel like there was something wrong with ME for not being trusting, forgiving, etc. anytime I listened to my gut and called him out.

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  NotAnymore

Yours sounds like mine. He didn’t do the feel sorry form me bit, but he always loved pulling off something. I put it off to harmless mischievousness. Wrong, for many years he was silently destroying my life (and his by the way) and he had his ways of letting me know without me catching on. I can still see that smirky grin to this day.

He went on to cheat on whore, but she knew where the whores hung out, so he got caught early on. Then he turned to massive gambling for his high. Since he got pretty sick from smoking by the time he hit 50, I imagine the dick stopped working as well.

MamaMeh
MamaMeh
1 year ago

The cheaters classic confusion between wife (real, flesh and blood loving human) and mother (in their minds, both brutal controller and all-forgiving comforter). Sigh. (Apologies to male chumps, just speaking out of my own experience).

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  MamaMeh

I think this is so true. Don’t really understand it, maybe if Mom was a ball buster, but I don’t think that’s always the case, or maybe even frequently the case. It seems to be just rebellion against the female authority figure….MOM….and then wife is cast in that role, especially after she has kids and is literally a Mom. They seem to want the comfort of “Mom” and then they resent “Mom” because “she” makes you do things or live up to things. I wonder if a lot of ED is psych based because they don’t want to be having sex with “Mom”. Women don’t seem to have as many problems integrating the ‘Dad” aspects of a husband with the actual….husband functions. So effed up!

Josh
Josh
1 year ago

My soon to be ex engage in at least one emotional affair and openly flirted with men.

She sprung the let’s separate, but date and I said nah, let’s try to work on this. Mistake on my part.

She had a dude lined up and even introduced the boys before filing one month into separation. During one our conversations, she said men fawn over her, I am aloof and couldn’t read her mind at how unhappy she was, she openly flirted with men, has a wandering eye, and then said aren’t you glad I will divorce you because I am seriously thinking about engaging in physical affairs…

I guess the silver lining in all this is she’s not asking for child support and the dude she’s with is a very steep downgrade. More power to her, my life will get better.

Apidae
Apidae
1 year ago
Reply to  Josh

Be careful. FWs have a way of suddenly appearing and being all “I have chaaaaaanged, I was sooooo wrong” right when you’re about to move on without them. Especially when $$$$ is involved. Get that no child support nailed down!

Josh
Josh
1 year ago
Reply to  Apidae

Yes, it’s written down in such a way that if either of us takes a dive with our jobs through a layoff, we could get support. But for now, we have similar incomes. I have the boys around 30-40% of the time and pay some childcare and their insurance as mine is better, and they have aways come out of my check, so budgeting isn’t an issue.

I set this in a way that if things go south, it is counted towards my support should she ask for it. Her lawyer was pushing her hard to get support in addition to what I am doing, and she kept saying no.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  Josh

I know this is old but be careful she doesn’t deliberately quit her job or do stuff under the table. People will do shit like this to avoid CS esp if they can get an AP to finance them. Even a downgrade could potentially have money and be a downgrade in other areas.

Coolinmn
Coolinmn
1 year ago

My (now) ex grabbed his shotgun and walked out the back door, claiming that he would commit suicide because he was so tired of not feeling loved.

I grabbed the gun out of his hands and tried to console him with a big hug. I realized much later how dangerous that situation could have been.

oldcrone
oldcrone
1 year ago
Reply to  Coolinmn

Typical deflection from what he’s done. The x would scream that he was going to blow his brains out if I wasn’t buying his lies and fake remorse. I should have just handed him a tissue and told him to go ahead and blow.

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  oldcrone

“I should have just handed him a tissue and told him to go ahead and blow.”

????????️????

Just brill. xx

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago

“You should divorce him for felony stupid.” ???? This is one of my all time fave CL lines.

This FW is particularly infuriating. The nerve of him, bawling in her arms over not getting laid by some other woman. The nerve of him buying gifts for another woman and going on dates with her, shoving the relationship right in the poor chump’s face and then snarling when she expresses any objection to it. This is cheating, whether he’s fucked her or not. I tend to think he did, but she stopped fucking him because she could get gifts, evenings out and flattery by keeping him wanting. That’s what my FW’s OW did. It’s a strategy experienced users employ to sucker clowns like him. They throw a few fucks at them and then take the crotch pleasure away as soon as the twerp thinks it’s twu wuv, because then Twerpy will frantically do/buy things for them hoping to get the sex back. This is because the FW is too narcissistic (and felony stupid) to realize he’s being suckered and always thinks that the fucking will return, seeing as how FW’s organ of delight is so irresistible and all.????

Anyway, he’s a horrid little man and I hope he’s long gone from the OP’s life. I hope she bitch-slapped him so hard it left a permanent handprint, too. Yeah, I know we aren’t supposed to approve of violence, but for some people it’s an appropriate response and this outrageous prick is one of them.

ImmaChumpToo
ImmaChumpToo
1 year ago

“The issue is that he wants to live like a single person, but enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage.” The story of my former life. Thank you, Chump Lady, for giving me the wherewithal to make it my FORMER life and no longer my current life!! After 20 years together, I am 1 year divorced and so happy to be out of that nightmare!!! He’s still a piece of shit and still tries to make my life hell, but I’m so glad to be unhitched from that asshole!

I hope OP comes back and gives us an update that she’s also happily unhitched from that asshole!

Fourleaf
Fourleaf
1 year ago

He cheats. We separate. I take him back. He does the same thing again. And he tells me to my face that he deserves to be happy, I’m not the boss of him, and he deserves to be truly loved.

My experience and the letter writer’s experience. Why are so many cheaters alike?

Letitsnow
Letitsnow
1 year ago
Reply to  Fourleaf

My EX’s famous line days after his week long crying fest after me finding out, was his declaration…
“You cant put my dick in your purse”
Found out a month later that cheating was the reason for his first marriage demise
Nobody will ever convince me that THIS attitude will ever change in his life.
He just married again for the third time last month.
No introspection, why do they keep doing it?

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Fourleaf

Irony is most of them are truly loved, and they just don’t recognize it because they don’t know how to truly love, so how would they recognize it?

They remain three year old’s who demand constant attention, and feeding. Combined with 17 year old’s who demand constant hard ons.

Josh
Josh
1 year ago
Reply to  susie lee

Validation is one of the buzz words they use, and I’m not haaaapppyyyy.

damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
1 year ago

again, a cheater who is, frankly, not that smart. does he not see how transparent his actions are? no. too self-absorbed/it’s always worked for him/he’s stuck in a fantasy life.

you know, i think misogyny is a chosen form of stupidity, given available info about how to live an equal life with the other sex. it’s infuriating and common.

and stupid.

David Brooks Sucks
David Brooks Sucks
1 year ago

What is up with FWs blaming their cheating on some obscure slight from years ago? My FW once blamed his cheating on not have enough sex during a vacation over 15 years ago. Nevermind his Army buddy was crashing on our hotel room floor for over half of the trip. Oh also, it was our delayed honeymoon. I mean, they’ve got some nerve!

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
1 year ago

Right?! My ex blamed his cheating on a laundry list of past wrongs, including that one time I tried to go to grad school to get my advanced degree WHILE HE WAS GETTING HIS ADVANCED DEGREE–he viewed that as abandonment (mind you, I NEVER even went because he pitched the biggest fit, but still got accused of abandonment for just considering it). And on and on.

These people are forever victims. So happy to not have to live with a person like this anymore. Life gets better! And with space and time you see things for what they really are and can make better choices moving forward with who you spend your time with.

NordicChump
NordicChump
1 year ago
Reply to  NotANiceChump

Yeah this is what it is. So much this from my ex. Let’s see…

I didn’t go to bed with her every day when she was pregnant (13 years ago)

I didn’t clean the bathroom when she was pregnant a second time(11 years ago)

I didn’t comfort her when she thought she had worms from the kids, which she mentioned at 3 am on a Tuesday 8 years ago.

And many more. These are legit reasons she gave me for having an emotional affair and sending other men nudes.

Regret
Regret
1 year ago

Lundy Bancroft refers to this as the “Garden of Resentments”. Abusers nurse a garden of old slights and resentments and then harvest it when its timely for them in their manipulations. None of these issues were ever addressed in the moment, usually because in the moment they were meaningless.

FooledAgain
FooledAgain
1 year ago
Reply to  Regret

I think of it as an “add-a-grudge necklace.”

Elsie
Elsie
1 year ago
Reply to  Regret

I had forgotten about that one. Such a classic!

Lundy is now semi-retired but occasionally does interviews. There are some on YouTube. His insights are amazing.

BB
BB
1 year ago
Reply to  Regret

Ah yes. The Garden of Resentments. My favorite – “during the kitchen remodel you looked at me with disdain.”

lulutoo
lulutoo
1 year ago

You have the best screen name ever!

Sunrise Ruby
Sunrise Ruby
1 year ago
Reply to  lulutoo

Agreed. I’m embarrassed that it took me so long to leave the David Brooks fan club. I’d admired his columns for several years, even after hearing some small noises about his personal life. I couldn’t finish the long-winded “Second Mountain”, though, and then I woke up and smelled the hypocrisy after learning more details about his darling second marriage. I stopped reading his work after that.

tallgrass
tallgrass
1 year ago

“Felony stupid”…….. Chumplady, you have such a talent for putting together the right words!

Everyone in my tight circle of trustworthy friends knows so many of them by now because they have become my “go to” language. Why spend 5 sentences describing something when Felony Stupid cuts right to the core of it?

Sending love and light. I must be creeping in on Tuesday.

Stuck in limbo
Stuck in limbo
1 year ago

I am going through the same thing. This started when our 4th child died at birth. He was talking down about me to other women and soliciting them for sex and per him unsuccessful. I did have an affair and regret it sincerely. We have both shamed each other in social media and in social situations. We are now physically separated for 7 months and we had agreed to work on the marriage however I feel that I am the only one doing any of the contact and work. He is doing no contact unless he needs something from me. I only contact him when it deals with the kids. Where do I go from here? I have apologize for my part and continuing to work on myself and the kids. I don’t speak to the affair partner and don’t go on dates with anyone else.
Stuck in limbo

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago
Reply to  Stuck in limbo

It sounds like it was a toxic marriage. He isn’t working on it because he doesn’t want the marriage. His actions show you his feelings. Just accept it and get a divorce.

It sounds like he was, at the very least, trying to have an affair, then you reacted to that by actually having an affair. Is that the correct sequence of events? Revenge affairs are a stupid idea, but it seems you know that now. The marriage is not salvageable at this point. Unless you want to be stuck in limbo for years, stick a fork in it and call it done. If your husband changes his mind he can always marry you again, though I think it would be a foolish idea.

I’m sorry about the loss of your child. I can see why you might have lost your way when dealing with that and your husband’s attempts to have sex with others. So I don’t think you’re one of those run of the mill cheaters who is irredeemable. Keep working on yourself to develop healthy coping skills.

justme
justme
1 year ago
Reply to  Stuck in limbo

Run! Get to a safe distance and get yourself and your kids to a safe place. FILE!! Is what you are seeing acceptable to you? No? Than don’t put up with it any more. FWs forget that we are thinking/feeling induvials. And that we have free agency to make decisions for ourselves. When reminded that no means no, all cheaters throw huge ass toddler sized tantrums. And once we start seeing the power play for what it is, we can’t stop.

Chumpnomore6
Chumpnomore6
1 year ago
Reply to  Stuck in limbo

You’re in the wrong place. This site is for betrayed *chumps*, not cheaters who “regret it sincerely”. Vomit, and fuck off. ????????

NotANiceChump
NotANiceChump
1 year ago
Reply to  Stuck in limbo

I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your child, that’s terrible. This is probably the wrong community to join if you yourself are a cheater. You won’t find much sympathy. There are many choices when your partner is being an asshole, like your ex was (leave them, get counseling, work it out, have them arrested for solicitation, etc.)…cheating is not an option that us in CL Nation view as legitimate. It’s abuse. Your ex is doing exactly what CL prescribes–separate from the cheater and go no contact.

If you truly feel remorse for your actions, you’ll grant your ex a swift and easy and fair divorce and continue to live your life in an honorable way and work to do right by your kids and set a good example to give them the best shot at a successful life and not grow up dysfunctional and marry cheaters themselves, or become cheaters. Best of luck.

oldcrone
oldcrone
1 year ago
Reply to  Stuck in limbo

Sorry you’re in this situation, but you’ll remain “stuck” until you take steps to divorce.
I’m in the camp that believes that cheaters deserve another chance, just not with the person they betrayed.
Continue to work on yourself to discover why you thought having an affair was a good decision, and get your poor children the help they need.
The only contact between both of you should be through your divorce attorneys.
And you’re not “stuck”, that’s just you not accepting responsibility for the situation you’re currently in. You have agency, so get going.

portia
portia
1 year ago

15 year olds are old enough for some serious, almost adult conversations about acceptable and non-acceptable behavior. If spouse wants to be free to be a FW, let him be free. Just get a seriously good settlement, including college expenses for the teenager.

The boy probably does not want to switch high schools or move. I think that is a justified concern. Do your best to keep his life stable and sane. He will get over your divorce, eventually. Make it clear who detonated the bomb in your marriage. He is old enough to handle it. He needs to see the consequences of his dad’s FW behavior. Fortunately for you, you can move on and get a new life. When your son leaves home to start his new life, you will have had time to adjust and heal from this damage. You will be surprised how wonderful life can become when your own needs have priority. Good luck!

Sunrise Ruby
Sunrise Ruby
1 year ago

I stopped reading after I read this: “Am I being unreasonable for having a problem with my husband’s ongoing relationship with a woman he tried unsuccessfully to seduce?”

I’ll read the full post, of course, but I really had to pause. Have we REALLY sunk so low as a society that there’s a reasonable expectation that a faithful, legally married spouse will question THEIR negative feelings about their partner’s relationship with another actual or potential affair partner, then feel some urgency to ask other people if those negative feelings are valid?!

Evil has won.

I’ll read the full post now. Glad you’re back and well, CL!

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Sunrise Ruby

I believe this “questioning” has it’s roots in the late 80s early 90’s when lots of young married folks (some of them I knew as work acquaintances) started patting themselves on the back for being so open as to not be worried about their spouses female friends.

Before I get attacked by the men, yes it goes both ways; but the only folks I knew who bragged about their open mindedness were female. The males never bragged about how they let their wife go to shows and events with other men because they were so hip.

Now that so much of that has blown up in proverbial faces; the questioning begins.

To me, if you are questioning it, there is a reason for it.

Yes I believe men and women can be friends, but only with boundaries; and once the spouse objects knock it off, or go be single.

Violet
Violet
1 year ago
Reply to  susie lee

” … the only folks I knew who bragged about their open mindedness were female. The males never bragged about how they let their wife go to shows and events with other men because they were so hip.”

Now there’s a skein worth untangling. Or just read it and weep.

Goodfriend
Goodfriend
1 year ago

Despite watching the show “Catfished” weekly and laughing at the stupidity of people who get taken in by on-line romance scams, my ex “met” someone on line, started sending her gift cards and credit cards within weeks, and within two months had asked her to move in with him. When I found out, it took me less than five minutes to figure out the pictures belonged to a Columbian hooker with a different name and this was a scam. When I told him, and showed him evidence that she wasn’t who she claimed, he claimed to be heartbroken and devastated because HE had lost the love of his life. Like OP and Notanymore (above), he expected ME to comfort him because of his tremendous loss. Even when I pointed out that I was the one who was losing the love of nearly 50 years of my life (we too were highschool sweethearts), he dismissed that because she was his “sole mate.”

Until I read Notanymore’s post, it didn’t sink in that, as she wrote, “Whenever he played the victim like this he was totally guilty. The sobbing/drama/crisis was a distraction and manipulation.” Thank you so much for writing this. Yes, whenever I expressed MY pain, or asked him tough questions (such as “How much money did you send her?” “How many credit cards did you get for her?” ) he was suddenly so overcome by grief that he couldn’t answer and didn’t want to have to remember. Looking back, with the benefit of Notanymore’s words, I can see that he grabbed onto being the devastated victim and used it to get more cake. And all the while, even after I threw him out, he continued to text her.

There were comments above about having to file because the FW’s wouldn’t. I am ever so glad that I filed first, because it’s proof that I left him. He has to live with that rejection. I know it must bother him, because some of our friends/acquaintances were given a different story that I was desperate to hold on to him, and were quite surprised to learn that I filed.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
1 year ago
Reply to  Goodfriend

“There were comments above about having to file because the FW’s wouldn’t. I am ever so glad that I filed first, because it’s proof that I left him. He has to live with that rejection. I know it must bother him, because some of our friends/acquaintances were given a different story that I was desperate to hold on to him, and were quite surprised to learn that I filed.”

I am convinced that the ONLY reason my FW filed before me is that he found I was about to do it myself (after him saying he wanted a divorce yet doing nothing for several years). It would have ruined his narrative about him having to escape his horrible wife if SHE filed, especially since we are in an at-fault state and I was filing on grounds of adultery and cruelty. I didn’t want the divorce at first and was waiting for him to do it like he kept threatening to. Eventually I got over him and decided I was done and so started the process. My attorney asked his attorney if the attorney could accept service on his client’s behalf so FW found out my plan and rushed to file first. I think he expected me to be upset about it. I didn’t care – he saved me the filing fee! I opened a bottle of champagne that night, and then counter-filed the next week. (He then dragged his feet EVERY STEP OF THE WAY, refusing to answer emails, provide documents, etc. It was so frustrating.)

VulcanChump
VulcanChump
1 year ago

God, this asshole. Every time this one republishes my desire to hit him with a cartoon mallet grows.

Mowmowface
Mowmowface
1 year ago

I hope OP eventually left this guy. What a tool! My FW tried to tell me it was normal for coworkers who were “just friends” to go to $20 a plate lunch places every day too, and to take turns covering each other’s meals. He also told me I was “jealous and against him having friends.” I told him this wasn’t normal at all, that work lunches weren’t an everyday thing in my office, and that when they were I always covered my own meals (unless it’s a birthday/celebratory lunch.) I told him that I considered what he was doing to be dating. He would just get me a latte in the morning but take these howorkers of his to bougie gastropub places for lunch. When we’d have meals out together he’d never have enough money to treat me (or help me with our regular bills/mortgage for that matter.) I feel like he would have covered lunch for a male coworker on one of those meals out if it was truly innocent, but nope, he only ever bought lunch for his female coworkers, including one he used to bitch about me to constantly because I didn’t respect his descent into MGTOW/Incel beliefs and she did (they both agreed I “didn’t know how to treat a man”…tell me how that’s not an emotional affair exactly…) I’m happy to report that he struggles to even afford McDonalds since I kicked him out. I got full custody of our daughter and he has to give $450 to the professional supervision place to see her and $667 in child support to me, so no more bougie gastropub dates for FW these days.

Apidae
Apidae
1 year ago
Reply to  Mowmowface

You were just helping him Go His Own Way!

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Mowmowface

“I’m happy to report that he struggles to even afford McDonalds since I kicked him out. I got full custody of our daughter and he has to give $450 to the professional supervision place to see her and $667 in child support to me, so no more bougie gastropub dates for FW these days.”

I love it when I read this. Sucks to be him.

I mean he could treat them to Micky D’s once in a while; but I am thinking they will get tired of that pretty fast.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago

Though sex was blatantly on the table in the OP’s disaster, everything going on would still be a problem even if they’d never had sex or even talked about having sex. I’m doing a little soul searching here and– just to project a bit– I can imagine the OP may have hesitated to throw over the game table over this “friendship” because of personal confusion about boundaries regarding opposite sex work friendships. These friendships aren’t always okay even if there’s zero possibility they’ll ever bonk.

I had this kind of confusion for a long time because I hadn’t really reflected on my own opposite sex “friendships” from the past. This made me hesitate to go ballistic when I learned that FW had maintained a secret paldom with his suck-uppy lesbian work wife/drinking buddy for two solid years. This was another case of projection: I was projecting my own trials and tribulations when starting out in an even more gender-unequal, narc-filled, aggressive industry and uncomfortably having to tolerate “friendships” with older men who tried to mentor me as a way to groom me. Out of general insecurity and hopes for my career, I would sometimes even go into denial about what some of these men really wanted from me and would (bad, bad idea) think of them as genuine friends.

So when FW admitted keeping secret (but innocent!) relationships with women, I was hoisted on the petard of my own lack of reflection over some of my own past professional relationships, didn’t quite know where the boundary was for opposite sex relationships and didn’t want to be a hypocrite by demanding that FW not cross a line that had remained blurry for me. I also had empathy for his female colleagues who I imagined probably thought they had to cultivate male connections to get anywhere in their careers in an industry that was exposed that same year for being rife with sexual misconduct, gross inequality and gaping gender pay gaps.

I totally missed the fact that divulging his secret friendship with lesbian work wife was a tip off that the friendship had been kept secret because it was grossly inappropriate from the get-go. I’ve since read a blog post by claiming that lesbians in a white corporate world are entitled to a “loophole” for using sexualized behavior to get ahead because… fuck the patriarchy and, well, it can never lead to anything and it’s all just in fun. Never mind the wives and kids getting fucked over in the process and pouring blood in the water for pervy, abusive men to exploit women– hall pass! What noxious bs and obviously most LGBT would never support this. But the divulgence served a bone FW threw me to get me off the scent of the affair when I first started suspecting and asking if he was screwing around. In that convo he didn’t mention that the lesbian work wife was manically hustling him for job perks and opportunities as well as frequent free drinks and meals payed for with marital assets. He didn’t mention that part of her “exchange” for perks and booze was that she fluffing his toxic masculinity, enabling his binge drinking and irresponsible spending, repeatedly acted as his pimp and beard and that she’d actively arranged the initial drunken after-work hangouts with a few married office tarts– who got cold feet and didn’t actually fuck FW– and then with Schmoopie. I wasn’t told about how work wife got pissed at Schmoopie because Schmoops was only supposed to be a passing bonk that would earn FW’s gratitude towards work wife, not an 18 month “thing” where Schmoopie would then absorb all the work perks, favors, free booze, etc., that work wife expected for herself. Nope. I didn’t learn about any of this until later. When first asked if he was having an affair, FW angrily responded that he didn’t feel free to have even innocent friendships with women because I was so oppressive and then whined that work wife was his “best friend” and I had nothing to fear because she (hello, misogynistic objectification) looked like a chubby little Alfred E. Neuman from Mad Mag.

Never mind that, as it turned out, Schmoopie could have been a hetero clone of the work wife so using women’s appearance as proof he wasn’t fucking them was totally null and void. Maybe his beer goggles were in full effect. Apparently the misogynist appearance bar wasn’t high to begin with. Then much later at a work party I got a full face of the “innocent” friendship with the work wife when she campily stalked up to him across a crowded event hall in front of 200 colleagues swinging her hips and making hot eyes, then gesturally pole-danced on his leg, crotch-bumped him for a full body hug, made a suggestive duck face and squawked in a weird impression of sexy baby voice “Oh Captain, I MISS you!” I remember staring in shock as FW just stood there passively and obliviously soaking up the sex signalling and suckuppery like a ham being glazed. I understood in an instant what this woman’s career track was: finding men whose dongs were hanging out of their pants and then cranking them like tire pumps. I wanted to walk out and leave FW to humiliate himself but was being asked to play it cool until ducks were lined up by my attorney. “Embarrassing FW at work” could have been doubled back against me.

And she called him Captain?? Like fundy trad-wives call their lords and masters? Bleurgh, ack, holy fuck. Who knew Mr. Groovy Democratic Socialist secretly wanted to be a Proud Boy.

FW’s charge that I was oppressive should have tipped me off right away because his grounds for the accusation were laughable and even tragic. Once in twenty years I had joked that another (“homely”) female friend and side kick of his male work buddy might have a thing for FW since she seemed to mysteriously show up whenever he and his pal were meeting for coffee. Plus she was aggressively and negatively chiming in about our child rearing. She was single and childless and I’m guessing she assumed child rearing choices were mine and FW was just being dragged along with it so the attack was likely meant to be against me alone. But still this struck me as more dangerous than undermining of the marriage. I was home schooling our chronically ill son at the time– without the political group protection of doing it as part of a religious collective or even a Libertarian “Ancap” cult– after the school flagrantly put my son’s health at risk. The laws on homeschooling in our state were fuzzy and we got into a few very scary legal standoffs over it where, if worse came to worse, the state could theoretically take all our kids away “on discretion.” In other words, my jaundice over the acquaintanceship had less to do with her being a creepy would-be poacher and more about the kids’ safety.

But anything and everything is ammo to a FW. FW was basically grasping at straws to fuel DARVO but I had no familiarity with cheating cycles of abuse and didn’t recognize it for what it was so I stood down on the “friendship” with the sleazy work wife. I’d been raising kids and working and didn’t have time to read self help, etc. So I was effectively blind-sided and wanted to clear up what I believed was a misunderstanding by CoMmUniCaTInG. Oh course he simply weaponized all my attempts to talk about it as further grounds to keep betraying me.

In any case, secret-keeping and making DARVO excuses for it are red flags enough. I hope the OP bailed.

Apidae
Apidae
1 year ago

Holy shit. That woman sounds extremely disordered.

Totally not surprised that Mr. Groovy Democratic Socialist was secretly a misogynist trad-boy, though. That’s a trope older than either you or I – the “liberal”, “progressive” dude who talks a good game and pretends to be oh-so-supportive of women, and whose principles don’t reach any farther than his dick.

OHFFS
OHFFS
1 year ago

“Plus she was aggressively and negatively chiming in about our child rearing.”

Yet her face remained un-punched? You’re a better woman than I am, HOAC.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
1 year ago
Reply to  OHFFS

It would have been overkill. She looked like someone had already repeatedly hit her in the face with a cast iron pan, stuffed her with sawdust and then used her as an ottoman.

I was a bit of an ugly duckling as a kid and was bullied until about age 15 so I always had a very hopeful attitude towards people who aren’t conventionally attractive thinking they’d been gifted with more opportunity to develop character, intellect and empathy. But it’s a crap shoot. When it’s true it’s really true but just not often enough. I guess the takeaway is that if life doesn’t endow someone with everything they want, having just enough self empathy to be able to empathize with others who face challenges is good but if it veers into ruminating self pity, entitlement and aggression, you get Cluster B.

Violet
Violet
1 year ago

It makes me sad to know that anyone–any woman–would spend a single nanosecond wondering whether this kind of shit is acceptable.

DrChump
DrChump
1 year ago

I’d divorced now 2 months. I am not dating nor will I for awhile. Anyway I went to eat at local bar late Friday. As I was leaving 2 attractive ladies came in and bought me a drink for giving them my stool. They be an talking. One was a chump divorced in February. The other had a story. Her husband filed for divorce and she believed he was cheating. After telling me a 10 minute story of why she thought he was cheating she drops this nugget;
She says when he files he accused her of cheating. I ask why would he do that? Her answer was “because I was texting with another man.” I have her hell about that. Her chump friend loved it.
We are living in a world of Fuckwits

Chumpasaurus45
Chumpasaurus45
1 year ago

What is it with drumming up complaints about us from 20 years past with these FW’s?
He sadly told me “ you didn’t let Ray come over for dinner”. This was a work associate, who I dearly love of FW’s, who was in town for the night and my ex gave me a choice between cooking dinner for everyone or the FW and Ray going out to get a bite with another work associate. ( FW gave me the choice because he was aware of how crazy busy the week was for me with the kids) So, I picked the latter choice, have had Ray for meals plenty of other times, just opted out for that evening.
Little did I know, that decision would be thrown in my face 20 YEARS later as FW exits with his mistress as one of the reasons he’s disgruntled with me and needed to replace me with his mistress.
I barely remembered what he was even talking about with Ray and the dinner issue when he brought it up, lol!
Must not have been a whole lot of material to complain about me if he had to wrack his brain back 20 years to come up with something!
My ex once sat in a recliner Christmas morning devastated and crying ( didn’t even cry when he’s mom died) because his mistress had left him when he told her he was building a retirement home with me.
I didn’t know about that mistress till then, I wonder if he expected me to offer comfort to him for his horrific loss. I sadly stayed another 8 years, having been the winner of the booby of all booby prizes.
Where or where were you Cl when I really needed a 2 by 4 to my deeply delusional noggin?!

susie lee
susie lee
1 year ago
Reply to  Chumpasaurus45

“Must not have been a whole lot of material to complain about me if he had to wrack his brain back 20 years to come up with something!”

Absolutely, shows what idiots these guys are.

The only complaint my fw had about me was I wasn’t a good enough house keeper. Mind you I was not a bad house keeper, just not a spit shiner. He was comparing me to women who hired house cleaners because they were working full time as was I. I was also going to college at night and doing a lot of volunteer work at his request.

Funny thing is the whore he married makes me look like Martha Stewart per my son and daughter in law.

They got them a whore and that whore looks damn good in the dark, so they will come up with whatever crap they can to justify themselves.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
1 year ago

“If I waited until I had all my ducks in a row ???? ???? ???? ????, I’d never get across the street. Sometimes you just have to gather up what you’ve got and make a run for it.” Werd

walkbymyself
walkbymyself
1 year ago

I love the way half of us here got fed a steaming plate of “It was JUST an emotional affair, so it’s not cheating” while the other half of us here got fed a steaming plate of “but I never LOVED anyone but you, so it’s not cheating.”

Got it. Love without sex doesn’t count as cheating, and sex without love also doesn’t count as cheating.

sue devlin
sue devlin
1 year ago

i think him crying on u lap, is a twisted pick me dance. the work mate, cheaters lie about everything. u will never n the truth about that. hes taking u for granted, and expects u to pick up the pieces. hes enjoying u misery, ie death by a thousand cuts

Cloud
Cloud
1 year ago

I’m also certain that it’s just a matter of time before it turns sexual – if not with her, with someone.
This was me, so I can tell you how this ends. Get out NOW.

Giddy Eagle
Giddy Eagle
1 year ago

Oh boy, does this bring back memories for me.

My ex came crying to me, presumably upset because he tried to kiss a woman we met at while on vacation. He appeared to be grief-stricken. I was completely bamboozled and consoled him. After that incident I KNEW this man would never cheat on me.

Wrong. 20 years later, after DD#2 and our split I traced back the red flags I had ignored over the years. I realized he had tried to start an affair with this woman, knowing she lived in our town. When she rejected him, he was worried she’d tell me and decided to get out ahead of it.

He used the same strategy in more subtle ways over the years. He’d drink too much at an event and then ask if he did anything wrong the next day. I didn’t realize he was trying to check and see if anyone had reported back to me.

I lost 25 years to this louse. He was cheating before, during and after we got pregnant. I will never forgive him for the years he took from me. Time I will never get back. It’s cruel and unforgiveable.

Possible Chump
Possible Chump
1 year ago

So much food for thought here, as always. I agree with Susie Lee where she said that married people have no business “dating” others (not going into all the open relationship stuff, it’s not my cup of tea).

But this seems to fit somewhat with Chump Lady’s “you might be a cheater” post.
I have no problem with coworkers/friends, but boundaries are key.
After trawling through my husband’s Twitter (and nope, I won’t apologize for that because the truth matters more than his need for “privacy”) I noticed that 97% of his followers and the people he follows are women.
Some of them I recognize, most I don’t.

What bothered me was that back in June, we took a trip together and he had a strong negative reaction to me wanting us to take a simple photo.
It was bizarre and I was hurt, because it wasn’t like I wanted to put the picture online.
He acted like such a fucking weirdo that the photographer was confused.
When I asked why he was so angry, he later said it was about “privacy”.

My hunch is that it’s more like secrecy. That he wants to appear single to certain coworkers, and any evidence of marriage (although some of them know about me) must be carefully hidden.

Marco
Marco
1 year ago

Congratulations on doing the Chump Jump. Making excuses to stay in this will not get you much. Enjoy being the plan B backup because your poor wayward husband got turned down

Orlando
Orlando
1 month ago

The husband sounds like an adolescent in a man’s body looking for consoling from wife-mommy. When they come at you with a list of petty grievances that’s a cover story, not a partnership. I noticed the OP hasn’t chimed in yet so obviously she wasn’t ready to hear the bad news about her teeny-bopper hubby. I could’ve pulled the plug many times on my immature husband, but I kept hoping he would eventually “get it” or grow up, nope he just coasted along until he found another mommy & then flew “old mom’s” house. I have a premonition the OP might come back here saying her husband did the same thing. Just a feeling you see 😆

Last edited 1 month ago by Orlando
Chumped in KC
Chumped in KC
1 month ago
Reply to  Orlando

Narcissists have arrested development so they literally are children trapped in an adult body. Frustrating to us actual adults ! And they seek parentification in their partners. They are messed up people that go on to mess up other people with their bad behavior.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  Chumped in KC

They resent you for helping them too. They’ll happily use you and then punish you for it. You can’t rehabilitate them.

VulcanChump
VulcanChump
1 month ago

Oh for fuck’s sake, not this guy again.

Chump-Domain Cleric
Chump-Domain Cleric
1 month ago
Reply to  VulcanChump

Which guy? The FW mentioned in the letter?

I Count
I Count
1 month ago

This was my ex. He claimed he was “polyamorus” and he wanted to date as I stayed home with the kids. Then he wanted to tell me about the dates and freak out about the dates. I could not do it. I was an ass and stayed for like 20 years. But eventually, I left and I am FREE. I hope she does the same. My kids were 14 and 16 when I left and they were ok. Are ok!

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  I Count

My ex claimed he was polyamorous too – after he cheated on me. Later I found out he had a whole ass fiancee he’d failed to mention.

Elsie_
Elsie_
1 month ago

I posted on this the first time it came around. Yes, I was supposed to sympathize with all his struggles when he abandoned the marriage to live in another state. But he was the one who took off? Something is wrong with this picture.

Nah. Nah. Nah. He wanted to reinvent himself instead of facing how messed up he was. Then he leveraged that with his family into how I wouldn’t follow him and what a poor soul he was for how his wife abandoned him in his time of need.

And then he told his attorney his sad story. But the attorney figured out the dynamic and called him on that, particularly when my ex kept adding things to the agreement to hang onto me.

It truly messes with your thinking. But the drama-free life of meh is so, so good.

Celene
Celene
1 month ago

I remember reading this one. My ex was similar in that he made me the bad guy for not wanting to hear about his woes regardig his coworker- she was playing hot/cold. The ex asked me if I thought “he had a chance” with her while I was in the midst of being sick with a migraine and throwing up. The total lack of empathy from my ex for someone being physically ILL in front of him – with his begging to know like a high schooler if he had “a chance” with his whore – was more confirmation that the relationship was not acceptable to me and being separated/headed to divorce was the right thing to do.

Ironically enough, I have far less migraines now that I’m divorced.

Chumpcat
Chumpcat
1 month ago

So, he is looking for encouragement from his wife to be better at cheating? If OP hasn’t moved on, I hope she does so ASAP. In addition to being emotionally abusive, he is an utter failure, a complete failure as a husband, and so thoroughly awful he is a failure as a faithless spouse. I nearly forgot, as a father too.

Chumpcat
Chumpcat
1 month ago

It never ceases to amaze me how massively entitled cheaters are. Mine fell into a depression during my furious pick me dancing (which looking back makes me sick with what I did). I assumed as a good chump would, the guilt of the nonstop sexting and phone sex with a large roster of men had finally hit. Turns out, it was because the most active ap had ghosted her, and her kibble supply took a hit.

Chump-Domain Cleric
Chump-Domain Cleric
1 month ago
Reply to  Chumpcat

That’s so sickening. I’m so sorry you went through that. I suspect many irrational moodswings FWs have are only irrational to us because we don’t know about their secrets – it would make more (terrible) sense if we knew about their secret drama.

Last edited 1 month ago by Chump-Domain Cleric
Viktoria
Viktoria
1 month ago

Whether keeping it secret or bringing it all out in the open to the marriage partner (and wanting pity!), cheaters are abusers!

HauntedHouse
HauntedHouse
1 month ago

When I discovered the serial cheating, the cheater tried to convince me that the many women he was texting hundreds of times a day were just “good friends.” He actually had the audacity to inform me that he disagreed with me that married men shouldn’t have secret female friends. He disagreed with me that he shouldn’t be able to text them all day. He disagreed that he shouldn’t secretly take them out for dinner while pretending to be at work. I mean, friends have dinner together, right? He disagreed that sexting other women was wrong. It was just harmless flirting, after all. I just sat there, stunned. It was unbelievable.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  HauntedHouse

I’m deeply suspicious of straight adults over the age of 25 who think opposite sex friends are appropriate.

Colleagues, acquaintances, people you invite (with their +1) to Christmas or the summer BBQ… sure.

But texting all day? Late night phone calls? 1-on-1 dinners? Please.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  HauntedHouse

It’s not that they don’t understand, they just disagree. Was that Dr Simon?

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  HauntedHouse

I think he was fundamentally disagreeing about being married!

Chumped in KC
Chumped in KC
1 month ago

When I discovered my FW’s cheating on his phone, he said, “we were just chatting.”, to which I responded, “You meant you were just cheating!” A-hole! Cheaters are the worst at blame shifting and spinning the truth. Just loath that type of behavior!

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago

And this is why you should always have a frying pan handy.

Seriously, if my husband said this to me, I would have melted his face off with my sheer rage. How DARE you say something like this to your spouse!!!! You want to DATE!!!!!! It’s even beyond audacity, this is a level of sheer mental illness to say this to a spouse – this guy wasn’t even HIDING his desire to cheat. Because why would you want to date someone, anyone? Because you want to CHEAT. My guess is this guy already was cheating and I wish the letter writer would update us (please update us about situations, people!), hopefully she discovered this and dumped his pathetic ass. Unless you enjoy being Mommy.

I’ve been reading a lot on the Mid Life Crisis site and I have to say, MLC does seem to be a real thing for FWs, it’s like they do follow patterns and scripts. I completely disagree with how that site says to handle it, but the phenomenon itself seems to be real. It’s like they go back to being teenagers and wanting to be rebellious and without ties and just do whatever the hell they want no matter how much pain it costs others or what wreckage is left in their path. And they say completely insane, unfeeling things like THIS. What spouse is going to commiserate with your failed dating attempts?!! The answer to this is to assume the worst – to me, a statement like this is even beyond any level of counseling because this is not sane, normal behavior that can be rectified. As much as it hurts and as difficult as it is, if your spouse makes a statement like this to you, or something similar about wanting to see other people…..unless you also support polyamory yourself…..it’s time to end the marriage. I was raised by mentally ill and substance abusing parents – you cannot cure these people, and you really can’t help them. All they do ultimately is damage you and whoever else is around and tries to pick up the pieces. GET OUT AND SAVE YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILDREN. DO NOT TRY TO SAVE THIS OR CURE IT. When someone makes a statement like this to you, it’s already over and not going to get any better, don’t bother waiting for them to “come back”. They’ll put you through hell – take the first bus out!!!!

Chump-Domain Cleric
Chump-Domain Cleric
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

I would disagree. I would say they just get tired of hiding their shittier parts.

I’ve had discussions with one of my parents about how some people seem to suddenly get worse with age – sometimes they become crueler. Sometimes they become more impulsive. Sometimes their mental health suddenly worsens. And they responded with something that resonated with me.

They’re old. They’re tired. They don’t have the drive to keep it together anymore. They no longer can keep fighting their demons.

Sometimes I complain to my mom – When can I stop masking (in the neurodivergent/neuroatypical sense)? When can I let myself just be instead of having to fight just to barely keep my head above water? The answer? Never. Because I have to be functional. So I can understand some people finally getting too tired to do so and simply… giving up. The fight is exhausting. You have to remain hypervigilant against yourself, and that’s immensely taxing. Giving up isn’t the right thing. But I almost understand it (at least with mental illness).

I imagine, with FWs, it’s like that. But they aren’t fighting to cope with mental illness. They’re trying to hide their fuckwittery.

I also believe that’s why people have supposed “mid life crises” starting as young as 30 and as old as 67. It’s not a mid life crisis. They simply stopped caring or being able to fight against their fuckwittery. I believe more of the former than the latter.

But it doesn’t matter anyways. You leave a cheater and you gain a life – MLC or not!

susie lee
susie lee
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

I have thought about the MLC, but honestly it seems in so many situations we find out (certainly I did) that these ass’s have been lying and stealing from us for years. If a spouse has been cheating and lying for years, it isn’t a mid life crisis.

I certainly had a mid life crisis, hell I found out my husband of 21 years had been spending money, and time on lots of women. (his words, not mine). I fell apart, for the two months after I figured it out, I was basically in a metaphorical heap. Not once in my time of despair, that included him behaving nasty towards me for almost a year before that, did I have the urge to go hump strange.

I think MLC is just another phyco-babble bullet point that cheaters use.

But either way, yes the only way is to run like your hair is on fire, as soon as you can.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  susie lee

I think that’s the bottom line, susie, whatever is causing this behavior, the trauma and damage that is caused to spouse and kids should not be endured for any reason. Chumps have to save themselves.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

My first cheater said his was a midlife crisis at 35, my second cheater said his was a midlife crisis at 60. There are hundreds of varieties of mangos per Trader Joe’s. But they are all still 🥭 mangos

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

God, midlife crises are such a cop-out. I’m tired of hearing about cheaters who cite them as reasons to betray their partners.

A girlfriend had a guy cheat on her when they were 25 and he claimed he was going through a quarter-life crisis. I had to break it to her: “Girl, he just hates you.” Cheaters will find any excuse, it’s all BS.

My dad’s in his 60s and I asked him once why he never had a mid-life crisis. He said he was too busy providing for his family to think about “crap like that.”

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

LOL!!!! Yes, I think the MLC is over-rated but it is remarkable how they do and say so many of the same things. Especially the really crazy shit like this guy in the original letter.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Both cheaters told me they were running out of time to have more sex with more people. They were tired of being married

SortofOverIt
SortofOverIt
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

I experienced a very similar situation. My FW was young when we got together, 23. I am 5 years older. He had been in a long term relationship prior. I don’t believe a mid life crisis is a valid excuse to cheat. But I really and truly suspect that his cheating came down to him feeling like he hadn’t had sex with enough different people. (To be clear, he had sex with more than 2 people, but had he been single from 16-23,itwould have been a LOT more) So the “oh no, I haven’t had enough women” combined with “oh no, I’m aging and this current decade of 40something to 50something might be my last chance” became an emergency to him and he started looking at options. Despite being married for decades with a kid.

He had an affair. It didn’t work out. Now we are separated and he apparently hates dating*. Hope it was worth it.

*he SAYS he hates dating. He still does it though so not what exactly that is about.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago

It is the most heartbreaking 💔 event to stay in a marriage long term with a person that enjoys torturing the one he purportedly LOVES, with the pick me dance music of multiple flirtation in front of me, multiple EAs we used to talk about and his sorry I’m married behavior. I was So wise as I got kibbles thinking he loved me and just needed my take on these woman. I could talk him out of them, one at a time. I lowered the boom once and he went raging and then underground. As I’ve said on this site multiple Times, EAs are a pick me dance of abuse and shopping for the next OW who.will put out kibbles. Then if I get angry and demand repentance and stopping this pain, I get gaslight abd rage. My daughter saw me model horrible acceptance of being tortured and staying for more. Of modeling weakness and groveling. I stayed a Chump for 20 out of the 33 years. I’ll be in therapy forever to recover from my abuse and my children’s. My opinion is SAVE YOURSELF.

Mehitable
Mehitable
1 month ago
Reply to  2xchump

“My opinion is SAVE YOURSELF.”

This to the max. Ultimately you can only save yourself and if you model this esp to your children it will help them save themselves. Life is a LifeBOAT and you have to take care of yourself first, if you get kicked out of the lifeboat, you’re screwed and so is everyone who depends on you, especially the little ones. Disordered people can’t be saved except possibly with professional help and even then, I don’t think it works much of the time. They either grow out of it themselves eventually or they drown and take everyone else down with them. Marriage is not a suicide pact.

2xchump
2xchump
1 month ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Wow! Marriage is not a suicide pact.. Wow!