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Making the Marriage ‘A Good Place to Be’

shrinkOne piece of advice the Reconciliation Industrial Complex likes to give after D-Day is telling chumps it is their responsibility to make the marriage “a good place to be” after an affair. That way your cake-eating spouse will see what they’re missing. Often this advice is combined with the contradictory advice to be all 180 and WTFever.

Are you home from work? Well, I’ll be busy with soccer practice. Can’t chat. Everything is running smoothly here! Dinner’s cooked! And notice the freshly fluffed pillows and scented candle. Gotta run. Bye!

Try this with a buoyant nonchalance, chumps.

Because that’s exactly what home life is like after D-Day, right? Somebody out there in unicorn land is awaking refreshed and ready for a trip to Bed, Bath, and Beyond after D-Day. Me? I had sleepless nights, dry heaves, and calls to domestic abuse hotlines. I flunked nonchalance. I was more hung up on HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME?!

In fairness, I’d only been married 6 months. I assumed the marriage was a good place to be because he’d just put a ring on it. If I sucked so epically, why marry me? But perhaps I was mistaken. I should’ve improved my game. Maybe it wasn’t enough to move to another state, finance his career move, and buy a fixer upper house in a no-fault divorce state, have a robust sex life, cook his dinners, entertain his family, and do his laundry.

I wasn’t a smorgasbord of pussy. My bad.

Because that’s why affairs happen according to Dr. Harley of Marriage Builders. Emotional needs are not met. (Like the passive voice? I think that’s intentional.) Let’s puzzle this out. Who doesn’t meet those needs? (Put it in the active voice.) Chumps!

He had an emotional need for me to be 573 different orifices, and I was just one person. I failed.

According to Harley, infidelity happens when someone (let’s not name names) doesn’t put enough deposits in the “love bank.” If you don’t meet those needs, they will stray. Everyone is capable of infidelity, says Harley. Has nothing to do with character.

 I shouldn’t be trusted by my wife, and I shouldn’t trust her. The fact is that we are all wired for infidelity, and under certain conditions, we’ll all do it. The way to protect your marriage from something that has been common to man (and women) for thousands of years is to recognize the threat, and do something to prevent it from happening.

What can I do to prevent it from happening? Tell me!

Meeting each other’s most important emotional needs, avoiding Love Busters and building an integrated lifestyle, free of secret second lives, are all ways to affair-proof your marriage.

Did you catch that? The way to not have affairs — a secret second life — is TO NOT HAVE SECRET SECOND LIVES!

OMG. Enlightenment.

Curiously, Dr. Harley doesn’t say anything about you fucking other people after D-Day, when your love bank balance sheet looks as fiscally grim as the subprime mortgage crisis. No, chumps, when your love bank is overdrawn, you need to find the strength to make the marriage a nice place to be.

And you have to stop bringing up the affair. Because that’s a real bummer, okay?

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It’s a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn’t pay him any dividends — no longer helps him get his way — he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.

This advice contradicts his other advice — the Policy of Radical Honesty — you know, where you’re supposed to share everything that’s on your mind with each other and act like you care. How he makes coffee, how you loathe your co-workers, your hopes and dreams about your golf game. Everything is on the table, but just don’t discuss the affair. That “mistake.” Be radically honest! Just not your feelings about your spouse fucking someone else. Stuff those feelings down and choke on them, then go buy some nice throw pillows for your New Improved Marriage.

Because you can’t trust anyone, say Dr. Harley.

How can a spouse ever trust an unfaithful partner again? My answer is that the spouse should never have been trusted in the first place… Basing a marriage on the Policy of Radical Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward preventing an affair… With these measures in place, we end up trusting our spouses because an affair becomes almost impossible to achieve.

I’m confused. To agree to a policy of joint agreement on things and be radically honest… uh… doesn’t that presuppose TRUST? But to “end up trusting” again, we have to… trust. This is circular logic. Kind of like the way to not have secret lives is to stop having secret lives.

Clearly, I lack the sophistication of someone with a PhD in family therapy, who has saved thousands of marriages. The point is, chumps — this is all your fault. Okay? Go fluff some pillows.

This post ran previously. That advice is still crap. 

Ask Chump Lady

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  • I love you, Tracy. Thanks for helping me find a life that doesn’t involve fluffing a cheater’s pillows. He can fluff off…forever.

  • I got all this ric advise right after d-day from guess who? His mother. She also informed everyone he deserved to be happy. I rest my case. That sort of thinking is exactly what is at the core of the ric philosophy.

    • I got the same thing from my ex MIL. Her son was not happy…. I worked too much (needed my insurance for his Cialis), I didn’t want to go out at night (really, I was never invited to the Wednesday night dinners aka “management meetings”) and finally he stayed on the basement couch…. I now realize he was too tired to come upstairs from leading that double life! The ONLY thing my ex MIL never mentions is the six year affair. My happiness and that of my sons is not important.

      • My MIL died 3 days after the DD, therefore absolving my ex husband of any kind of explanation to me; he was just too grief-stricken to communicate. Then, after that, he either chose not to remember his misdemeanours or said it was all in the past. I have to remember them though, don’t I? Every single day of every single week. It’s now 4 months since my divorce and I still feel as crap as ever. Yet, he still twists that knife: as recently as yesterday, I was apparently the best wife ever, am terribly beautiful and kind and he would marry me tomorrow. What a load of rubbish. Why did he cheat then? Because he could and because he didn’t respect me at all. ‘Not my fault’: take heart – the management dinners you weren’t invited to were the same as the ‘team meetings’ I wasn’t invited to either. They were just eating cake meetings whilst we were holding everything together. Stay strong and take care xx

        • Gill, that is called hoovering. Go no contact if you can, if you have children look up grey rock. Don’t give him an opportunity to manipulate you. Stay strong!

        • Gill
          Yes go No Contact if you can. I made the mistake of talking to my X for well over 1-1/2 years after our divorce! I didn’t know about this site and i was a mess! He told me the EXACT same things. They are narcs and are still trying to eat cake. Believe me ive been so much happier since I went No Contact! No more mond games

    • Oh, yeah. That “he deserves to be happy” deal is where what I foolishly hoped might be actual soul-searching ended up, as I now know was inevitable.

      Weird, isn’t it, that in this view everybody except the betrayed partner and the kids “deserves to be happy.” Cheater gets happiness. AP partner gets happiness. Their families, friends, colleagues, and eventual wedding planner get to be happy about their happiness.

      Actual spouse and kids? Weirdly, the happiness train does not stop there. Of course, the kids can ride every few weeks, if the cheater has time, if the AP doesn’t object, if the betrayed spouse drives them to the station and pays for the tickets, and if they are not old enough absolutely to reject the whole idea of playing along with the rules of bizzaro world.

      And when the chump finally gets it, escapes from that train wreck, and goes totally no contact with cheater and cheater’s weird world?

      Why, there’s the evidence that chump is anti-happiness, which is considered overwhelming evidence of why cheater needed to cheat.

      Hmmm. Pretty brutal, this “happiness” thing. I’ll pass.

      • Yes this f-ing “individual” happiness narrative is total BS! That was not listed in any of the marriage vows, however the vows did specifically address decisions that if handled like a mature adults would in fact result in happiness for both partners, reminder: marriage is for 2 people not individuals. Its kinda like math: vow1 + vow2 = happy marriage. I will never understand why it takes 2 to marry and only 1 to divorce. Maybe that is math too: 2 married – 1 cheater = $$$ for legal establishment. Oh and his mom, my now EX-mil, she was never married and never divorced, but she worked in government for 30 years and knows people so she must be an authority. Yep, I really don’t miss that flying monkey circus of ex’s family

      • I got the “I deserve to be happy” too. My response to that was “Can’t you first try to be happy inside the marriage, before giving up on it?” Strangely, what she heard was “You’re only allowed to be happy inside the marriage”, like I was somehow forbidding her from leaving me and thereby condemning her to a life of misery. All I was asking was a 90 day pause (advocated by RIC), based on the (I thought) logical argument that having just spent 6 months apart, moved 1000 miles, and both started new jobs – all commonly accepted relationship stressors – we ought to spend a few months settling in to our new life before blowing up the marriage.

        There were a number of weird miscommunications like that during the chaotic time after d-day – which somehow all ended up confirming her narrative that I’m a misogynist and a threat to her safety. I was thoroughly confused about how she could be so certain about ILYBINILWY … until I found out about the affair and it all just clicked.

      • Let’s even run with the selfish notion that everyone deserves individual happiness, no matter what the cost to others. There is an honest way to your own rendition of “Eat, Pray, Love”–ask for a divorce. Admit marital ties and toddler handprints on the wall are getting in the way of your enlightment and dreams of being a sophisticate, and go pursue your fantasies. Do it without sucking the life out of the spouse sustaining you as you chase the dopamine-rush of new genitals, and do it without installing a large sword to the hilt in the back of your betrothed.

        Breakups are painful enough, no reason to add infidelity to the mix.

        • What? Discussion, honesty, actual interest in seeing the betrayed partner as a human being inherently worthy of consideration? Hah! If I can just get the multiple swords out, I’d love to discuss that. 😜

          • I asked my cheater why he didn’t ask for a divorce, if he was so miserable. Of course, he blamed our daughter. “Didn’t want to break up the family.” What a hero.

            In the meantime, he was constantly gone (seeing Shmoop’s and other sex-workers), behaving like an ass whenever I asked him to do anything at our home, becoming more and more secretive while declaring “secrecy” to be a “basic human right”.

            It has been about 18 months since DDay, about 6 months since his final (as far as I know) contact with Schmoopie. While our home life has improved dramatically, and he is displaying, from time to time, what looks like genuine remorse, I don’t know that I will ever be able to fully trust him again. He has a LOT of shit to work through, did some really horrific things (hello, HPV), and it will require a Herculean effort on my part to move beyond it. He knows this.

            The RIC bullshit about “emotional needs not being met” is exactly that: bullshit. My cheater had an affair because he felt entitled to, pure and simple. And he felt entitled to not tell me about it. And he felt entitled to not tell me OR Schmoopie about his online romances, and dalliances with sex-workers. And he feels entitled to remain in our marriage while he attempts to win back my trust.

            I admit I am enabling him. I admit to my unwillingness to throw 30 years away without trying. Am I strong…or stupid?

            My sister told me that when the pain of staying in the relationship becomes greater than the pain of leaving, I will know it is time to go.

            • Your sister sounds like a smart person.

              I would only add to her point that you need to be sure that you are measuring pain, not fear. Don’t stay in the marriage because the fear of leaving it is greater than the fear of staying. Fear is good at blinding you to your own best interest. If the pain of staying is too great, leave no matter how fearful that step feels.

              • So true. Fear is a liar…

                D-Day was the day I realized that I had made a 23-year bad investment and it was time to cut my losses no matter how I afraid I was to start over in middle-age. I simply did not see a good future by staying with a man who had a history of cheating on top of everything else. He had a plethora of excuses for his bad behavior.

                I finally realized that we each are responsible for our own happiness and happiness in our relationships is not a one-way street. Compromise and reciprocity are very much part of healthy and loving relationships. Nothing I did or didn’t do was going to cause my ex to change into a healthy, loving person. He wasn’t ever really interested in doing any heavy lifting to maintain our relationship. He groomed me over the years to carry the load while he pursued whatever the fuck else made him happy and most of the time those pursuits did not include me. It’s all about cake…

                Marriage counseling/reconciliation MIGHT work for a one-night-stand cheater, but I think those who carry on in long-term deceptive affairs and/or are abusive and/or have secret fetishes, porn addictions, etc are lost causes – very hard nuts to crack. That clearly was another investment risk I was not willing to take. Had I known that was the kind of man he was from the get-go I would not have given him the time of day.

            • Ivy league chump

              I divorced my cheating narc ex 2 years ago after a 34 year marriage. I was in denial for years..wanting to believe that he would stop! But he never did!

              My mental & physical health was at stake just like yours. When trust in gone there is nothing to work with. He can lie to you & tell you things you want to hear but believe me & so many other chumps here., they DONT stop. They take the affair more underground & gave you believe their lies.

              How can you live like that? You have no self respect & he’s counting on that.

              I’m financially hurting, lonely & sometimes sad but I rather live a life without wearing “rose colored glasses “ & believing that everything is fine than being lied to & cheated on.

              • right on Ivy League Chump
                feeling lonely sad and financially hurting >>>>this
                so I make it a point to go out to dinner just to get out of the house…some days it’s overwhelming, thinking about things over and over…mind blown. But maybe you are right it is much better knowing that I spend my life not knowing and I think it’s better now because the shit got shut down. I can try to go on…it’s hard. Gross men out there. Best of my life gone….it sucks. But nobody to lie to me anymore. And Schmoopie shit was shut down. That’s the silver lining !!! See cheating is bad. It ended badly for her….

            • I’m sorry you’ve decided to prolong your pain. Us chumps can be such masochists. When you’re finally tired of playing the role of doormat, when you’re sick of feeling sick, when you’ve reach the end of your rope – just let go.

              The freedom can be scary at first. But you’ll feel a sense of relief. You’ll feel lighter from dropping the constant weight of the psychological burden. And then you’ll realize you’ve been clinging to a barbed wire mannequin for all those years. You deserve better.

              Take care of yourself. Show yourself some compassion like you would your best friend. Godspeed, ivyleaguechump.

            • I think it is obvious that you don’t want to see the time you’ve invested go wasted. However, he obviously did not give you that consideration.

              In my view, love is the top rung of a step stool. The first step is respect. Take out the respect, and love cannot be held up in the air. I have never subscribed to the idea of “If you can’t be with the one you love, then love the one you’re with”. Partly because of the double meaning (sexual interlude with anyone who is available at the moment). But mostly, because it encourages the idea that being with anyone is better than being alone, which is absolutely false.

              Yeah, it will suck right in the feels to end a relationship after that many years….he has become such a part of you over that time where your identity is no longer unique to you. That is, it is tough to think about who you are without realizing how you have changed to suit him over the years. And it is tough to figure out exactly who you are, at any age, but it becomes a more difficult task when you settle down (meaning, not experiencing things for the first time anymore). Things that you just do (like not order something he is allergic to, so he won’t be affected when he kisses you) or things you don’t do (he doesn’t like this restaurant/fair/concert/etc. so I won’t ask him to take me)

              It’s a shame he has not shown you the same considerations. It’s a shame he has disrespected you. It is a shame that he does not love you. It is a shame that he felt the need to betray you, to dishonor you and your vows. It’s a shame that he got to go all buck wild and do whatever he wanted and who he wanted while you had responsibilities to take care of. It’s a shame that He wasted YOUR time on this planet.

              See, it won’t be 30 yrs down the drain should you ask for a divorce. It already is 30 yrs down the drain because HE decided you were a Chump.

              • omg chris\
                this is totally right…you said it well and succinctly hit on all the points for many of us..it’s the time wasted, the not giving the marriage a chance , not respecting the spouse and then deciding it was ok to cheat and not even give your spouse any respect or trying to work out whatever and not stray. Yet you are a great guy…you could have kept that great guy image by not cheating..at that point they are no longer a great guy. and have wasted your time and life. and the only person getting benefits in all of this is their whore

            • Ivy —

              I think with every act of infidelity the cheater becomes increasingly (geometrically?) more horrible. So, say after one act of infidelity, cheater had much more humanity than he did after twenty or one hundred acts of infidelity. By then he’s a monster. Poor spouse is remembering before cheater was caught by the ankles in this phantasmagoric swirl, and not realizing the depths of his degradation, which is seeping over to the chump.

              All the more reason to leave a cheater, and gain a life, before it’s drained from you.

            • I had to end my marriage after nearly 30 years, it felt so impossible to do and unthinkable from where you are at the moment. But I can tell you this…..yes life is different and there have been days when it was really hard, I’m not going to lie to you….but life without the constant stress and worry of what he was up to, the gut wrenching discoveries, the constant thoughts, having to look at him and wonder who the hell he really was? That felt better from day one. I hadn’t realised the toll it was taking on my general wellbeing. I hadn’t expected the relief I felt, and the freedom from that awful situation was so beneficial I can’t begin to describe it. The other thing I wasn’t expecting was that I would start to learn and realise was that I had been treated badly in so many other ways. It’s like the boiling frog effect, it starts slowly so you don’t realise it’s happening. Even now 3 yrs later, different things make me realise that nice people don’t treat people in the way I was treated, even in tiny, seemingly insignificant ways. Absolutely nobody in my life makes me feel bad nowadays, and nobody seems to want to. When I was where you are now, what I didn’t understand was that my new life would not be lived by the person I had become then, but by the person I would become without all that in my life. And that was a person who became stronger and happier every day. You get strength from people treating you well. About 6 months out, someone said it was like someone had switched a light on inside me, I was shining from within. A few months after I’d asked him to leave, I saw an elderly couple in a supermarket queue. She had dementia and was scared, he was doing the shopping, looking after her, reassuring her and being so, so kind patient and caring. I stood watching them and realised that wasn’t how my life would have been as an elderly woman with dementia if I’d stayed with him, he wouldn’t have had that level of kindness, patience and self sacrifice. Sometimes I think it takes us to realise that even though we’re scared of being on our own at this age, maybe strangers treat us better. Three years on, it’s not been all plain sailing but my life is fuller and more interesting than I could ever have imagined, and certainly much more than it would have been. I woke up in the night recently, thought I felt him in bed next to me and in my half awake state thought the last few years had been a dream. The thought made my blood run cold! I would never have imagined saying that when I was where you are now. My children have enjoyed watching me grow to the person I should have been while they were growing up, and have said they much prefer to see me this way. The reason I’m telling you this is because you sound so very unhappy, and if there comes a time when hope has gone and it’s fear that’s holding you back (which let’s face it is absolutely huge after such a long time, kept me there for years), I’m hoping that hearing that there’s something positive to move towards not just something to move away from with a big black hole ahead of you may be of comfort and help. The big black hole ahead looks very scary, but when you step into it the light does come on – and in ways you maybe can’t even imagine right now. And your sister is right, you’ll be ready when you’re ready. Before then, I’d advise you to find out your legal position, just finding that out gives you strength, you don’t have to be ready to act on it. Just make sure you know in advance, it’s really important when your husband has turned out to be a dishonourable person.
              Big hugs xx

        • Mic drop. The end.

          Any time I hear narratives of “well, he was following his path” or “there must’ve been something missing in the marriage” or “he was depressed” or any other litany of reasons my response is always, “Great. He was called by a higher purpose? Awesome. The relationship wasn’t working? Darn. You do you. But end the marriage above-board in a respectful and mature manner.” There is zero. ZERO. reason for infidelity. It is reserved for the most cowardly and insecure.

          This notion really resonated with me from the book. Thank you!

    • Funny, my mil was more like he has decided he doesn’t want to be with you anymore, so suck it. I still want to be your friend. WTF? I don’t want to be your friend. (I would be her only friend) And wtf? He decided?, where is the partnership. She repeated the he lybhinilwy speech.

      My lawyer says I should consider a civil conspiracy suit and he isn’t joking.

    • My mil told me that he had decided he didn’t want to be married (so suck it) but she liked me and still wanted to be my friend (I would be her only one) what the everliving fuck? She repeated the he loves you but is not in love with you speech. Bitch! I was always cordial to her but can you tell I hate her now?

      In other words, feeling it is a toy and fuckwit is tired of it so she will buy him a new one as always.

      Lawyer is even seriously considering advising me to file a civil conspiracy suit against her because of all the money games she is playing with him.

      • Sorry about the duplicate comment. Computer seems like it is possessed this morning. freezing and flashing.

        • I got this from ex-MIL too. He LYBNILWY, but we still love you. Bitch cookie! No, she wants to keep tabs on me and make sure I don’t tell everyone their dirty family secrets. She lied to me in the marriage as much as he did, and she was shopping for her replacement daughter in law within days. Funny thing is, she keeps welcoming his new schmoopies into her home (1.5 years after separation he is still living in her basement rent-free), but she has no idea he is shopping for a unicorn and will never find her.

          He wants a hot, independent, smart professional woman (me) he can show off to his friends and have intellectual discussions with, who doesn’t mind that he lives in his mom’s basement, is into all shades of BDSM, willing to help him raise his two kids half the time every other week, with enough income to maintain him in the lifestyle I accustomed hm to, and open-minded enough to allow him to explore his sexuality wherever it takes him, with no jealousy. Alternatively he is seeking a polyamorous lifestyle where he can get all these things covered by multiple schmoopies who focus on him. Lol.

          He’s like the monkey trying to pull all the grapes out of a narrow-necked jar. Doomed to a never-ending hell of trying to control women who are crazy and insecure enough to eat his shit sandwiches, but independent enough to have their own unicorn dreams. MIL has already embraced 7 “the ones” since he left me. Ex-mil doesn’t know the last one was an exhibitionist who “pegged” her son in MIL’s house, while a stranger took pictures that are posted proudly on the Internet. That one dumped him when he tried to introduce Schmoopie 2.0 for a triad. Schmoopie 2.0 is a PhD in biochemistry who likes to crochet, and help MIL fix brunch. Schmoopie 2.0 also likes to participate in group sex scenes that involve Japanese bondage and “knife play”, but that relationship appears doomed since she recently posted she wants a long term monogamish relationship with no kids.

          What a bunch of circus freaks.

    • My kids got that abusive narc talk from their grandparents too when X ran off with young golddigging homewrecker after 4 months of false reconciliation and telling kids he hated being their father. Their feelings of terror and abandonment didn’t mean shit to the in-laws, the “only” thing that mattered was X’s “happiness.” My son (20 at that time) told cheater-apologist grandpa that he would never forgive him or speak to him again for approving of this cheating and abandonment and he meant it. Those people are all dead to me too— after 26 years in their family always seeking to serve them, they literally never spoke to me again.

      The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

      • This.
        My in laws also tried to “console” my kids (17&23 at the time) with the whole “ your dad deserves happiness too…” thing.
        They responded with cutting their affair supporting grandparents off as well as their dad.
        My children have not spoken with his family in 3 years.
        Their dad did deserve happiness, it was right under his nose the whole time.

        • Just as my ex has never discussed what he did with me nor his adult sons, my ex MIL makes comments to my sons such as “I know, it does take some getting used to”! Which part? the adultery? the stealing? the lying? the compulsive gambling? the fact that he destroyed our family?
          Her public version is that the whore came after the divorce…never mentions an affair.

        • This is it. The cheaters family shots themselves in the foot by trying to play both sides. They cant help taking the cheaters side …probably because they know they brought them up to be selfish narcissistic assholes. Now they can whine to the rest of the family the bitch ex wife turned their grandchildren against them…..nope you guys wear the consequences of supporting crappy behavior. My brand of cheater family thought it was ok to actually fund the cheaters love nest and encoraged him to go ahead and let the house be foreclosured on so their “cherished” grandchildren were homeless at christmas! ! Thanks for that !! They are all completely diabolical.

          • This happened to me too. It is amazing how little family courts care when it comes to a spouse dissipating assets. Hell, must be pretty routine. Both lawyers seemed not to understand what the fuck was going on, or they didn’t care, as long as they got paid (and so sat back to watch). One day I sat in court sobbing because Fucktard was no longer paying the mortgage, and I knew I was losing the house. I guess once he abandoned us he no longer felt responsible. The house we had worked hard for and that our children saw being built. X could easily afford the mortgage but it was no longer his priority as he was too busy flying out of state every weekend for AP. Most cheaters screw their spouses and children over financially, long before Dday. I don’t understand why courts don’t employ a financial expert in circumstances such as ours, especially when Cheaters are so “forthcoming” with their financial info. A warning would have been nice.

    • Yup. My SIL (on her fourth marriage) told me she just wants her brother to be happy. I discovered during the deposition that she helped create the “deathbed” trust that ensured that she and her brother wouldn’t have to take care of their spouses or children. She helped him deceive me so he could be happy.

      I never spoke to her again.

      • That is demented. I get them wanting to stick it to their spouses (cause that’s what these asshole do), but their own children?!? Frightening.

  • O…M…WHAT? LOLOLOLOLOL.
    Does Professor Thingamajig actually BELIEVE his own bs?

    Has ANYONE ever asked him about the FIDELITY part of Marraige vows? I’m taking it his marraige left that part out? And every couple he’s brainwashed ahem COUNSELLED has to just ignore that part too.

    Those poor Chumps he attempts to brainwash, smokescreen and gaslight.
    I’m betting my divorce Settlement that he puts all the Chumps he sees on MEDICATION so they can “love honour and obey” but forget the fidelity!

    Gotta laugh on top of the angry furnace that a person like that exists because yes Chumplady I also said to my marraige counsellor, “so how do you expect me to be 877 sets of tits and VJJs?”

    I took it she sacked us because I wouldn’t “trust” her because she believed the BS coming outta crazy heads mouth.

    Mind you that “marraige counsellor” I saw APOLOGIZED to me a year later. 😉
    Yeah she just enabled the perpetrator to continue abuse… until I ended that too.

    Why leave when one can eat cake on fluffy pillows?

    This madman “infidelity expert” sounds like a true advocate of the Cycle of Violence to me, round and round and fluff then round 100.

    Love you Chumplady. You’re my idol lol!

    • He’s just trying to make a buck, he doesn’t actually believe that horseshit. That’s why Chumplady refers to it as the (W)reconciliation Industrial Complex, not really interested in anything other than making money off of suckas.

  • This is a solid gold, poster-child example of how the RIC tries to minimize the actions, the trauma, and the truth. Take all that nasty directness out of the language and nothing really happened here, right? You’re all in a huff about nothing. Media outlets and PR departments do the same thing all day everyday. Don’t be duped by it. Re-distill the simple truth into what actually happened, and make your decisions based on that. Relevant:

    https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/an-interactive-guide-to-ambiguous-grammar

  • Stupid me thought that my marriage WAS A FUCKING GOOD PLACE TO BLOODY BE. I was never advised otherwise ….sadly did not get the chance to fluff cushions into perfect relationship…..but now I think what the hell did he ever do for my needs….? Why the hell was it my job to cater to him 24/7 ….co dependence anyone..? The fact he was a “nice guy” (till he wasn’t) made me feel I was lucky to have him. Now I wonder where did “me” go to ? How many years did it take until “I” disappeared ? The fact he is now engaged (before we are even divorced…) to his one night stand – really let me know just how little me and the kids actually meant to him…Thank GOD hes out of my life and I can be a real person again, gaining a life is wonderful – thanks CL thanks CN XXXXX

  • Entitled people are never happy with what you do for them it can always be better or more. Your fighting a war that can not be won. Been there done that got the scars to prove it.
    He’s still saying we could have worked things out. Yup an open invitation for me to dance, dance chump dance. No thanks

    • X weezeled out of the woodwork as he erratically does and said “if only we had communicated better and had counseling earlier…..”. WTF?! Communicating that you were fucking multiple affair partners our entire marriage?! Yup, I would have divorced your ass 25 years ago!

  • I too was given that same advise from our church Christian Couples therapist. I’m not mad. I understand why. I am a Christian…. 7 years ago I ate all that up. Did EVERYTHING she suggested…. in the name of God and what he wants for me and MY marriage. Now 6 months into the 2nd D-Day I have searched and found other Christian BASED individual counseling that helps me remember and unpack what God wants for me with an understanding of what’s my part and what isn’t. His choice to cheat IS NOT MY PART and I refuse to discuss how it “could be” my fault. I am also seeing a psychologist to help with what I think might be PTSD after the second trauma, I’m finding out I never dealt with the first trauma. I’ve also discovered I didn’t enforce personal boundaries. I’m better about that. I HAVE to discuss child stuff with him…. but I refuse to discuss anything else. When he tries to talk to me about my personal life or his I just say “When you can discuss and admit you’re a cheating ass hat liar, we have nothing to discuss except our child’s med, school and therapy schedule.” Of course I don’t plan to talk with him at all about ME, nope; no kibbles for him. If he wants to gush or complain about his personal life he has his schmoopsie…. the best thing about going through a divorce is I don’t have to give two 💩💩’s about him anymore.
    I’ve reached detachment FINALLY. I am praying that it lasts, I know God wants good for me. God wants me to take this experience and learn from it and build better relationships, being able to see the red flags, rebuild my life for God and for me and my child. Sure life has turned out far different than I had ever expected, Bc I am the marrying kind…. devoted and loyal. I have turned that focus away from cheater ass hat and more toward God and my new life.

  • When my ex cheater confessed to his adultery I was told point blank by the elders and pastor of our church that I needed to take responsability for his cheating. They could not tell me if my portion of responsability was 20-80 of 70-30 but I had to bear some of it.
    So in light of todays post.
    I totally accept 100% of the responsibility for his infidelity. I am sorry that I caused my husband to cheat because I do not have a penis. I am sorry that my lack of penis caused my husband to seek sex outside the marriage with other men. I am sorry that my lack of penis prevented me from provided my husband with a happy space. It is totally my fault that I trusted him when he said he was straight and when he took traditional vows in a church before family, friends, and God. sorry my Bad! 100% all me.

    • So sorry, Thankful. I hope you’re completely free of your lying cheater and those worthless counselors.

      Hugs.

  • This word salad is like an ouroboros- the snake that eats itself. It can mean infinity and continuance all it wants, but the more it eats the less it exists. How on earth it supports pick me dancing to this extreme when it doesn’t even have feet I will never ever understand

  • Cheaters rationalize and justify. That’s part of their MO. We’re not like them. That’s why it’s so difficult for us to move on from the injustice of it all. Cheaters are spineless turds. I was specifically told that I did not do my job as his wife, therefore, he had to turn elsewhere. Well… he has lost 98% of the people in his life. Found out the last time he saw his brother and sister and their families was Christmas Eve. Last time I saw him was 7 months ago and his 1 call a week to his child is pathetic at best. I wonder… was it worth it? I’ll never know or understand because I can’t imagine deliberately making a “mistake” that would erase everyone from my life. But then again, I’m not a disordered fuck.

  • “With these measures in place, we end up trusting our spouses because an affair becomes almost impossible to achieve.”

    Cool: He had potential!

    Bummer: Acbieving the impossible?

    Wow: Ding! Ding! Ding! We’ve got a winner! What an achievement! His life’s mission was to achieve the impossible! And the prize is Nanthony. Ah, a life’s work. Such determimation and consistsncy should be applauded.

  • I am so lucky I found Chump Lady within hours of discovery. The level headed, thought provoking and sometimes snarky truth I could identify with here made me stop googling and start reading everything I could on this site. If this is what the RIC spews I would probably be dead had I gone that direction. Thank you everyone here for saving me from that fate.

    • Kibble, I did the complete opposite.

      I went for wreckonciliation, pretzeled myself into knots and endured anything to keep my family together. We were going to LOVE ourselves better! Have a happier marriage than before! Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past!

      Outcome: five years of soul destroying misery and humiliation, and …

      Chump Lady is right and I ended up leaving a cheater to get a life.

      • I did that “standing for the marriage” and “be the better choice”. No way would i let him “lose me”
        AYE CARUMBA. What an idiot I was!

  • After the many d days early in our marriage I took the advice of never speaking of it. Swept it under the rug. All that accomplished was to show him how much shit I would take. 34 years later my marriage ended the same way it started…with him cheating.

  • I followed this quackery trying to save my marriage too. He referrs to the affair partner as lover all throughout his books 🤮 And blames woman who have gained weight as an excuse for husbands straying. And ladies you must have at least 2 different hairstyles. And contribute extra deposits to the cheaters love bank at all times. I have his books ready to donate but this post has reminded me they belong in the dumpster instead. Lol

    • Yeah I tried to follow the advice from this particular RIC forum (or what I now call Dante’s seventh circle of hell). I tried to do “plan A” in which you try to avoid “love-busters” (things that annoy or hurt your spouse – you know, like bringing up the affair) and show them what marriage could look like (soft fluffed pillows and everything!), if only they would come to their senses and stopped fucking other people. This right here almost killed me. Ended up having a nervous breakdown and baker-acted for my own and OW’s safety. I suppose the people on that site would assert that I did it wrong, or for too long – more piling on the chump. But the fact that they would advocate this kind of feverish pick me dance from a traumatized chump shows me they don’t have the first idea of what they are doing. It’s actually unconscionable. And don’t even get me started on the whole “blind trust leads to affairs” inanity. Again, way to blame the stupid, trusting chump. 😡 Silly me, thinking that the vows meant the same thing to him as they did to me. The worst part IMO is the idea that “we are all wired for it.” A most convenient way to take the heat off the wayturd – I mean, if we are all wired to cheat, then how can I point a bony finger of judgment at my husband if he feels he needs a new dose of strange every couple of months? The whole “logic” of that place is crazymaking and confusing to the extreme, especially for people who don’t have the temerity or brainpower to sort through all the bullshit (i.e. all chumps after d-day). A very dangerous site IMO particularly the way they push for exposure of the affair even in cases where violence has been present. but I’m sure there’s some disclaimer on there that your mileage will vary 🙄

      • I read the book, over and over, tried to follow the inane advice. I did feel like I was losing my mind. We even paid for phone counseling from these quacks. It didn’t last too long (4 months) but it was enough. I truly believed I could save my marriage and my children from divorce if I just tried hard enough! I could do it! This would be the most important thing that I would ever do for my family! Saving my children (4, 2 and 9 months) from the perils of divorce. It was all up to me!!!

        YEAHHHH, right. Even when I did everything the book said, he claimed that I wasn’t capable of changing. (Because the affair was totally my fault…sound familiar?)
        Learned that lesson the hard way. About 4 additional D-days during the 4 month WRECK of a consiliation taught me that. He is now married to the affair partner and they have my kiddos 40% of the time. We have been to court 2xs and they have tried to bankrupt me.

        My kids are OK (that is all that matters) and I am remarried to a great guy. I can’t imagine still being in that “sham” of a marriage…gambling, lying, cheating..you name it. The two of them will never understand the abuse and hell they put me through. They simply aren’t capable of it.

        • leslie
          so glad you found a great guy and remarried. I pray and hope I can find a great guy….I am afraid that there are no true blue people that tell the truth and actually don’t want to cheat with some golddigging ho.

    • Haha, my ex went to therapy and bought me a book for spouses of sex addicts. (Kudos to him for going and buying it.) it was the usually sort of RIC nonsense so I donated it to a used bookstore with a sticky note that said, “I am sorry you think you need this book. You deserve better, in books and spouses. You deserve a partner that can be faithful. You don’t have to spend the rest of your life policing your marriage. Try ‘Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life’ by Schorn instead.”

  • Being a former RIC survivor, I am all too familiar with this crappola. The RIC site I frequented pushed this particular shit sandwich on every newly minted chump. It went something like this:

    “It is good that you lost your blind trust. It was never good to have that with your spouse anyway.” Yeah because trusting your spouse is a bad thing. Plus that term was always a pet peeve. I didn’t have “blind trust” or WTFever that means. I trusted my ex until I didn’t because he gave me good reason not to. That doesn’t sound blind to me.

    Also the ever popular “You shouldn’t take any responsibility in the affair but you should take at least 50% of the responsibility for the part in your marriage that led your spouse to the affair.” Poor little wayward spouse. Your crappy pillow, fluffing skills led them to that choice. They were powerless. Of course this craptacular piece of advice forgets the fact that during the mandatory devalue phase which often takes place before and during the cheating, the chump has been given the green light to go ahead and cheat too by that awesome logic.

    Cheating comes down to character, not circumstance. The RIC bets on the fact that chumps want to take control of an uncontrollable situation so they give them a lot of things to do to make the marriage a happier place to be. Coming to the realization that you have zero control of someone else’s actions and you only control your own is what finally liberates chumps.

    If you’ve just been chumped, stay away from the snake oil salesmen that run the Reconciliation Industrial Complex. The websites, the therapists, the books, the seminars that tell you that can “nice your spouse” into being faithful if you just make the marriage a happier place to be. I made that mistake for three years of my life that I will never get back. It doesn’t work.

    • The cognitive dissonance that results from following the advice of Willard Harley, Jr. will drive a person to the brink of suicide. (Ask me how I know.) My ex used the list from His Needs/Her Needs (aka HIS NEEDS TRUMP/her needs) to mentally and emotionally beat the crap out of me for years.

      I have believed for 20 years that one day we will learn that the marriage guru WH, Jr was a serial adulterer. There is way too much cheater apologetics in his writings for him to have any understanding or empathy for the betrayed spouse. For a person to build a case for adultery being the fault of the non-cheater I believe he has a personal stake in the game. So, stay tuned. Eventually that will come to light.

  • I got this exact message in MC and tried earnestly to follow it. But when I asked my then-wife what more I could do to make the marriage comfortable, I was met with only a blank stare. And after about a week, hints of: “You could stop making such a big deal of my cheating.” Even then I tried, until a different affair came to light and I knew I had to file. Thank God for small tragedies!

  • “the fact is that we are all wired for infidelity, and under certain conditions, we’ll all do it.”
    I call B.S.

    The only reason infidelity causes so much pain and heartbreak is because half of all coupled humans are NOT wired to cause betrayal and deception to someone they promised to love and cherish and respect. Otherwise, when you discover your spouse is cheating (or rarely, they confess), your response would be “darn! you beat me to it! oh well, carry on!”

  • I got all this bullshit advice from a marriage counselor that my ex agreed to go to with me so he could keep eating cake for a couple more months while he worked up the balls to leave. Hide your pain! Don’t have a breakdown in front of him! Don’t make him feel like if he stays he’s going to be endlessly punished! Get creative in the bedroom! Sex has changed since you were young, these younger women are doing things you’ve never heard of! Re-arrange the furniture! Home needs to be new and exciting! Buy sexy nightgowns!

    Oh brother, what a Crock Of Shit. I can’t believe I did all this shit. Especially the “swallowing my pain” part. Fucking humiliating. For what? His mind was Made The Fuck Up already, no matter how much he said otherwise, it was. God I regret it so much now. I should have kicked him to the curb and sung it from the mountain tops from day one. All that behavior did was embolden HIS narrative that this was all my fault. Now he can tell anyone, oh she suddenly put in all this effort to be a good wife, but it’s too little too late. Huge huge huge mistake

    • “God I regret it so much now. I should have kicked him to the curb and sung it from the mountain tops from day one.” Oh, I am so with you there, sister. I had ample warning that infidelity was going on in my relationship 6 mos. before actual D-day. I should have kicked her to the curb immediately, but no, I blamed myself for the problem and tried hard to wreconcile. Bad move. She had to wrench my heart from my chest and stomp on it before I realized that she actually did suck and had no place holder in my life. I could have saved myself a lot of grief by just dumping her on day one of her infidelity trip.

    • It is damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The more you give, the more they take. When I think of all the things I did to make my marriage “a good place to be”, I get physically ill. Like you, my efforts began long before I discovered the infidelity. I was programmed from an early age to put my needs dead last. After I learned of the cheating, I initially kicked my efforts to please into warp speed. Luckily for me, I quickly learned that nothing I did was going to change the disordered freaks I was dealing with- an aging narcissist and an conniving gold digger. Check please!

  • Ha ha ha. Straight to the point. Love it.
    So glad I’m shot of my sooo insecure child like please give me more more more cheater of a husband. He’s still trying to make me feel sorry for him. Beat it muppet!!!!

  • One person can’t unilaterally make a relationship between two people strong because one person can’t think for, choose for, or feel for another person.

    Ergo, one person can’t “affair-proof” a marriage any more than one person can eat to cure another’s hunger, take medicine to cure another’s illness, or pee for someone else.

    It’s truly that simple. You can’t really do anything to stop another person from thinking, feeling, or choosing for him/her self. Anyone who suggests anything different is possible is spewing BS, plain and simple.

    • ^^THIS^^

      Not only is it spewing BS, it is shifting blame in about the most hurtful way possible. For someone who valued their spouse as a person, adored them, loved the family and the life that had been created over almost three decades, to be told that they could have prevented cheating if they had just done a better job along the way is a real sucker punch.

      What does cheating now do to the marriage? Does that make it a good place for the chump? Does that matter to this asshole? What does he have to say about those spouses that then decide that the AP is more important than the family and leaves? What a pile of shit. I tell my children that they can only control what they do, and that they should act as kindly and lovingly as possible, to respect one another. That is how I’ve always tried to live my life. That didn’t protect me or the kids from getting blindsided.

      • ^^THIS!!!^^

        I could only control me. I did a damn good job of being kind and loving. Didn’t protect me from being blindsided either!!

  • You can find excuses for anything in life, actually someone told me, addicts have excuses for everything. Finding excuses is actually condoning bad behaviour. People have terrible childhoods (I did) doesn’t mean you have to cheat, abuse substances. Research has shown that most addicts or cheaters weren’t abused. A interesting question would be did your cheater have a substance problem

  • The RIC and sites like Chumplady and many youtube “Narc” videos and blogs are all resulting, and unfortunately some profiting off, searing emotional pain and loss.

    What the >ahem< RIC is selling is a sense of false control. If you act a, b and c – you will affair proof your marriage! Chumps who are not thinking straight are many times throw your wallet consumers of this snake oil.
    It is natural to want to help someone who is in howling pain. It is quite another to take advantage of their pain and loss.

    Don't get me started about the group beat down that some RIC support forums deliver to chumps who do not IMMEDIATELY follow their corn pone advice. They are selling pain relief.

    Here, at least you get a common sense dose of reality, plus a very encouraging board of fellow chumps who are not forcing you to buy the latest and greatest security spyware, CD sets or "flyaway seminars".

    I am grateful for the

    • “What the >ahem< RIC is selling is a sense of false control." Exactly. Much of life consists in learning what you can, vs. cannot control. You cannot control a marriage with a dishonest person as your partner.

    • …” I am grateful for the community here. The no nonsense acceptance that being cheated on is TERRIBLE, and everyone works through it in their own time at their own pace.

      I tried everything EVERYTHING I could, it was not good enough. The goalposts were always going to be shuttered about, and I was punting the ball through haze. I BEGGED to be told the truth, he actually smirked at me. Thought it was a funny request.

      It only bought me years of abuse and more tearing down of my confidence. I was tossed aside like a ragdoll no longer in vogue, lied about and made into yet a BIGGER bully/abuser for all my efforts.

      May the trash stay where they are, victim xh and his “woman of high caliber” ow.

  • It is the world salad from a therapist that chumps are supposed to trust( like Tracy wrote about) that deepens the cognitive dissonance making it even harder to recover from the abuse.

    • THAT IS about the pits to this entire mess. You are cheated on, and you are expected to act like it’s a no big deal, fixable thing.
      If cheaters lied, stole and endangered their work environments to the same degree – do you think it would be treated so lightly?

  • He ‘deserves to be happy’ but I’m long gone and he still isn’t happy.

    Maybe, just maybe. He was the constant malfunctioning Life Widget and every plug in Instafamily and Lego Lady isn’t the problem.

    • Yep. I used to say he was a malcontent. Turned out I was right. You could give that guy a sack of cash and he would ask if there was more.

    • Absolutely right Luz!! They are disordered and will never really be happy. We can be happy, maybe it will take time to recover from their damage but we can eventually be happy. That right there is a reason to keep on keepin’ on!!

  • The worst part is that I DID all that, every single bit. And he still cheated again.

    (And of course, I wasn’t cheating, and certainly NOBODY was trying to meet MY needs!)

    Fluff off indeed!

  • Such stupid advice.

    When, exactly EVER, did my asshat make a deposit into the Love Bank? Was it 30 years ago when he sent me dozens of letters before we were married, declaring his love? Was it when he stood before God and vowed to love, honor and cherish me for as long as he lived?

    Was it when he was taken back by me after OW#1?

    Was it when he told me he wanted to be with me for the rest of his life 6 weeks before he abandoned me?

    After the abandonment he made it clear that he never, EVER loved me. A box of love letters was not the truth. Marriage vows were not the truth. Casual statements made about his whole life were not the truth. And in the years in between these markers were years and years of being ignored by a passive aggressive, petulant and piggy little boy.

    His “deposits” were counterfeit, and he blamed me for his larceny. Nothing to work with there.

    • Now i.c. that is exactly how i felt. That is exactly what i knew. Someone who loved me would never have been so cruel to me and my children. The thing that kept me around was shattered and it wasnt necessarily trust. It was knowing what was really inside.

    • Your post describes my situation very well. I also had boxes of love letters from before and after we were married. The other day I ran across another stash of birthday/valentines’day/Christmas cards (I had always kept all of these things from him because they meant something to me), saying things like “to Chumpinrecovery from the man whose heart you will always have”, “I want to be with you always”, “Be mine forever”, “I don’t know if I will go to heaven after I die, but I am getting a slice of heaven on earth being with you”. Some of these were from less than a year before the first PA (that I know of). How do I reconcile that with the things he said to me after DDay “I can’t remember anything good ever coming of our marriage other than the kids”, “I haven’t felt like your husband in years”, and “Maybe I would have gotten better out of you if I hadn’t been so nice to you” and of course the old classic “I love you but I am just not passionate about you”. Yes, he was often critical too, but I had all of those love letters to prove that he loved me in spite of my faults. Either he was lying all along and deliberately tricking me into thinking he loved me so I wouldn’t leave him before he could find my replacement or he has truly lost his mind or he is going senile and truly doesn’t remember the good stuff. Either way I guess I should be glad to be rid of the disordered and or senile but it isn’t so easy when your whole reality is upended in such a traumatic way.

      • After our divorce and selling the house, and I placed boxes and boxes of love letters from him in his boxes. I just really don’t want Them. Oh and along with that the wedding pictures.

      • Chumpinrecovery, I know how you feel. I got three years of love bombing letters. Things like “Love of my life”, “soul mates”, “best friend”, “grow old together and raise our children”, “no one understands me like you do”, bla bla fucking bla. I threw them all away as not to be tempted to re-read them and feel bewildered, dismayed, and crushed by the reality of who he really is compared to what I thought he was. I would suggest you do the same. It’s too tempting to revisit. All it does is keep opening up the wounds that we are trying to heal.

    • As I learned on this site, many of their so called good deeds are in fact just ‘Impression Management’

      That provided a lot of clarity for me. I used to scratch my head and wonder why he could seem to do kind things sometimes.

      • because he was doing everything for his whore and we were just getting the scraps. and the good deeds are to keep you off balance so they can continue with their whore and you would be confused/or happy that nice things were being done for you, so you would never suspect that there was something going on…

        • Yes, and after they are caught the ‘nice things they do’ are supposed to shut us up.

          My ex would tell our kids if I refused his offers of movie night or outings to make me look bad. Why didn’t I just tell the kids that I wasn’t in the mood due to being stabbed in the back. He came off as the nice husband, me as the cold beotch.

          • cause it sounds like he knew how to triangulate…see how fun that is…their games are alllll to make them look good and come out smelling like a rose…

            • He sure did and does. I’m on the outs now. Lost my home, vacation home, all my posssession, kids live with him.

              • that scuz bucket. I’m so sorry. I know how painful that must be. It’s so hard to go on. You feel devastated with nobody to turn to and everyone else’s life goes on and you have to deal with what has happened at the hands of some ruthless Prick

  • From the months that I have been reading here about people’s experiences they seem all too familiar to my own.

    I was there meeting the needs. Me meeting my Cheater Wife’s needs actually HELPED her to cheat. I was the one cooking the dinners at home and helping the kiddo with the Algebra homework. This allowed Cheater Wife time to pit stop at her mommy’s house to meetup with massage boy while her parents were at evening Bible study class. We chumps do the right things, but it will NEVER be enough.

    During marriage counseling months following I kept sitting there (as she lied and lied) thinking to myself “how much more do I need to do to make this woman happy”. In the end both therapists told me you can’t do anymore- she will cheat again, probably wasn’t the first time she cheated, just the first time she got caught. Walk away while you can.

    • Gee I get all misty eyed when I hear about male spouses cooking dinner and doing homework with the kids!.like another world.
      You will find someone who appreciates your caring nature without exploiting it.

    • zell
      yeah in hindsight I faciliatated the cheating because I was not pressuring or asking my cheater to do anything for me, and he had full access to help the whore get her house painted or whatever and while I worked they were off living the dream life while I took care of my own expenses…thus facitilitating more money to be slid over to the whore or hidden with the whore for their runaway scheme. NO proof of this however, I have all the ‘proof’ I need just figuring it all out. And that whore was probably wearing an engagement ring because she wanted to be sure that she had my husband hook line and sinker cuz who would want that thin lipped mole faced whore anyway? What man in their right mind wants some old leftover whore with two kids that has to climb on a married man for money? Good morals? NOT. trustworthy? NOT golddigger? YES. Does cheater care? NO as long as she provided that clam that was it. Intelligent sexy good looking classy wife…not important obviously

    • There are a lot of us guys-who-actually-love-being-dads out there. I cooked dinner and bathed kids most nights during the 10 years it took for me earn my PhD. XW was just too tired after a day’s work. She complained the whole time about how she would LOVE to be a stay at home mom. When I graduated, I was finally able to get a job that could support our family so she could stay at home. Did she take up the cooking? Granted, a little. Did she do any kind of job helping around the house? Well, she washed HER clothes and the kids’ clothes, but not mine. Of course, silly me, how could she have time to do anything around the house when there are affairs to tend to? I mean really, what’s a wife to do with all that free time as a stay at home mom? Anyway, decent family guys are out there.

      • I should clarify that my “free time” of stay at home moms comment was meant as a sarcastic remark in the context of XW who actually did very little (other than whoring, of course. I like to think that what she was doing was little too, for that matter) during the day. I do realize that most stay at home moms are incredibly busy every day.

  • According to marriage counsellors the marriage troubles were stemming from the facts that I (after discovering his 3 year affair) was negative and depressed. That was the ‘real’ problem which was gleefully accepted by my ex.

    Oh, and I was a bad Christian for not immediately providing reconciliation and forgiveness.

    When I would want to talk about his affair he would accuse me of ‘wanting him dead and I will be happy when he is in the ground’.

    What a mess.

    Talk about victim blaming……

  • I still remember those awful days after Dday. I was in total shock, exhausted and broken hearted. The Idiot had been very convincing that he wanted to “work” on our marriage. I was elated! I quickly found out that i was doing all the “work” while he was working on getting his hands deeper into schmoopies pants. We never discussed what happened and he continued to come home 3 hours after he got off work. I was a mess! I was coming up from the basement with a bag of cat poop after cleaning oit the litter box. (For the entire year before Dday i had literally done everything in our home from mowing the lawn to folding the laundry and EVERYTHING in between.). I came up the stairs and he was standing in the kitchen, 3 hours late as usual. I was sooooo angry. I said “if we are going to work on this marriage you have to come home at night”. And i will NEVER forget what he said. He sais “what do i have to come home for?” He was asking me seriously like he was confused about what was wrong! I was soooo mad I hurled that bag of cat poop right at his head and it broke open! I continued to try to eat the shit sandwich for a few weeks but I knew it was beyond repair. We never did talk about anything having to do with the affair. He always avoided it or changed the subject

    • whore was insecure, afraid my husband would be home having sex with me, so he would do the lawn to be able to take the whores calls. Because whore was insecure obviously, she could not let him out of her sight and had to have full access to him at all times. I hope whore is wrecked sitting with her wine crying, that nasty whore deserves everything, that is coming to her and more.

  • Oh, man, I painted our bedroom so when my XW would deign to come home from the OM, she would see just what a good place our marriage was. Here’s an extra big, delicious slice of cake! I distinctly remember, as I applied the coat of Warm Cream (her favorite) my raging emotions: fear, hope, self-loathing, and above all, desperation. I still can’t believe I sank to such lows. But I forgive myself: I know I did everything I could.

    • @david2016

      Yes. We DID do everything we could… And, it wouldn’t have mattered regardless.

      And, I just wanted to take this opportunity to address a response I wrote to you sometime in 2017 about whether or not we are “destined to be alone forever” [or something like that…]. At the time, I was sad and lonely and depressed. I wrote a rather pathetic response to your post. I can tell you now that, absolutely, “No. We are NOT destined to be alone forever.” As we learn and live through the infidelity and betrayal, we do get to “meh” and we do “gain a Life.” I am diligently working on both — and finding success. You will, too.

      • Thank you, Star,

        I do remember, yes. We all find ourselves in “that place.” I’m in it right now. After four years of mostly Online dating consisting of probably 100 first-and-last dates (most of them), I’m thinking that’s perhaps I will be alone. I know it takes only one, but I’m…well, I’m tired. The rejection, the disappointment, the crazies. It took me many years to find my XW (with whom I really did fall in love) and since then… nothing. I know it’s not reasonable that I am experiencing some despair (I won’t list my attributes as it sounds immodest and too much like a dating profile) but for now my irrational heart is calling the shots. (Self-indulgent sigh:-)

          • 😆 Dad to two young kids, 51, masters degree, tenured college English professor of 25 years, heading to retirement (open to relocation), 6’3”, 240, balding-but-virile. Non-religious, liberal, Italian-Jewish. References from relatives, colleagues and doctors upon request.

            • David, that was a brave and honest post. The last line is especially appealing! I only wish it could be seen by all of the eligible, awesome women of CN. Once the next day’s post is up, few will look at yesterday’s downstream replies.

              You could also add kind, sane, brave, responsible, and empathetic, as those traits are pretty standard for Chumps.

              I’m 5’2”, 56, and Grandma to little ones here. 3 1/2 years of college. Met cheater, got lovebonbed, and he convinced me to not finish university so that I could work full time and put him through school. How’s that for chumpy naïveté? Was a SAHM after ex got launched in his career.

              You sound like a great catch. I’m sorry you’re having no luck with the coffee dates. Best wishes for a glorious cheater-free future.

    • 6 cans of paint went missing out of the house, cheater could not answer as to there whereabouts. I guess he was preparing his whore’s bordello for the move in. That’s the answer that I did not get because that was the answer to my question that I know in my head. I asked a family member if her house had been painted. she looked at me and said my house wasn’t painted ! Bingo! I knew what really happened to the paint that is why the question could not be answered. Whore was getting ready to move her married man. What is her lonely ass going to do now? She’s sitting in lonely hearts club…somebody give that whore a dildo !

  • What really sticks up my craw with this guy, and the thousands of professional advice givers like him, is he doesn’t consider for a minute that maybe the cheater complaining about being “unhappy” is just a justification cheaters give to shift blame, or that almost all cheaters are, by definition, spoiled and selfish.
    What if, like the CL, you really DO bust your butt to be a good spouse and make the other person happy, and he/she still cheats? I’m sure he’d have some other passive-aggressive response about how THAT was actually part of the problem, too. “You always tried so hard to make him/her happy, letting him/her feel that he/she could walk all over you.”
    Yes, like CL, I tried hard, I tried OH so hard, to be a good husband and make my wife happy. It was probably impossible, as the goalposts always moved. I’d buy her some jewelry, the diamonds were just earrings, not something larger. We moved 600 miles to live close enough to spend one weekend a month with her mom, well, that wasn’t good enough as she couldn’t see her mom every day. And so on.

    • You male Chumps are amazing! Jewelry and gifts? Sacrificial moves? Caring about your spouse’s happiness? Putting in effort? What the heck are those?

      Like Lady B says above, those actions seem like they’re from another planet. If only all the cheaters were stuck with each other, and all the caring Chumps were able to hang out with and date each other, what a wonderful world that would be!

      • I’m amazed, reading all these comments, how many of us had such one-sided relationships. We bent over backwards for Cheaterpants, and what did we get in return? Yeah, besides moving to another state and buying jewelry, I cooked and cleaned and took care of my kids a lot, too (still do). Long before D-day, I quit sending her flowers as she never said thank you.
        Not that it did any good, but right after D-day I often wondered how in the world I could get stuck with such a selfish, unsympathetic, lazy, (most of all) cheating lout. I wish they made some kind of “cheater detector” 🙂 . Heck, I’d settle for an algorithm on one of the dating apps that would pair people up based on their likelihood to be faithful.

  • I am realizing that the truth about my x is he enjoyed hurting me. But he could never go too far because he still “needed” me. After he had everything set up for himself he was able to really hurt me. That is what is so dangerous about reconciling with these people. They truly enjoy your pain and they feel they have someone else and they have nothing to lose.

    • I think his anger had nothing to do with me at all. It wasn’t about what i did or didn’t do. I think he was angry because he knew he needed me for whatever reason(probably because he didn’t want to pay child support) and he could never show me how much he really hated me. I of course dont know this to be true but his treatment of me post d-day certainly points towards that. It is something i have to honestly look at to look at to stomp out the dissonance.

  • I admit … I fell for the deficit model of affairs.

    If only I tried harder and did more I could make up for the deficits in the marriage that DROVE my spouse to cheat! I even had our top 5 needs printed out and hanging on the bathroom mirror.
    What did this get me?

    4 more years of false reconciliation
    Another 10 trips to my gynecologist to treat my recurring BV (funny how that doesn’t seem to be an issue for me any longer)
    4 years that he failed to complete tax returns and was compelled by the court to get them done… leaving me in major debt to the IRS; My final parting gift from a marriage, that according to the RIC, I was contributing a deficit to. I guess I wasn’t doing enough to complete his taxes… silly me!

    Let me give the RIC a breakdown of what the deficit model of affairs really looks like….

    Spouse A – believes they have a good enough marriage, because hey, their spouse plays it off as if there’s nothing wrong. Other than the little fits of rage that pop up over seemingly unimportant events, there’s no indication there are major problems.
    Spouse A pulls the majority of the weight, striving to keep everyone happy, but that’s what you do for the ones you love right? Who’s keeping score?

    Spouse B – is keeping score! “You mismatched my black socks and blue socks!” I’ll throw a mini fit, tell you how inadequate you are, and then move on to the next thing that’s indicative of your imperfection. It’s exausting trying to teach you that “it’s all about me”. I don’t understand why YOU have needs! Stop attending to those offspring I GAVE YOU! Can’t you see the hoop I just moved … get to hopping or else …. I might have to go cheat and it will be all your fault! What else can be expected from such inadequacy!

    Deficit model of affairs: An entitled cheater blames everyone else for the unhappiness they create. They do not recognize anyone else’s needs but their own. They have no tolerance for anything that doesn’t directly benefit themselves.
    Their hoop jumping chumps believe it must be their hoop jumping failures creating the problems. They could improve upon knowing where that goal post is moving next. Wah-la … a one way street of giving is created, along with an endless loop of blame shifting. There you have the problem and the solution to the deficit affair model… keep dishing out blame for your own lack of integrity, and expect your spouse to pick it up and run with it. If they don’t make it through the obstacle course of moving hoops and goalposts (it’s actually rigged for failure, but if you don’t know that, you’ll keep trying) just blame it on the fatal flaws of the marriage. No harm no fowl! In other words, as long as a chump is still dancing the Pick Me, the game shall go on.

  • I can’t fault our marriage counselor for trying to save our marriage because that is what we hired him to do. He did give me some good advice during our one on one sessions that included “don’t accept just anything to keep your marriage together”, but he did seem to be backing up the notion that low satisfaction marriages (3 or less on a scale of 1-10) leads to infidelity. Ex ate that up and ran with it. I fell for it too in the beginning but now it pisses me off. Low level satisfaction in a marriage doesn’t lead to infidelity, poor character leads to infidelity. Then there is the whole issue of what leads to dissatisfaction with the marriage in the first place. I was falling all over myself to make the marriage a good place to be long before DDay and before he ever even strayed. Like so many others who come here I know what an impossible task it is to satisfy someone who can’t be satisfied. Maybe if I could have saved my marriage if I could have cloned myself. One me to be the high powered executive to make oodles of money to contribute to the family coffers, one me to raise and preferably home school the kids, one me to keep the house spotless, and another me to shower him with praise, affection and BJs whenever he could be bothered to find time for me. Why did I accept all of this? See my posted response to another poster regarding the troves of love letters and affirmations of love that I had from him that convinced me that he loved me and it was all worth it.

    And don’t get me started on the whole trust thing. I thought trusting my husband was a good thing. Now I am being told that it isn’t? I supposed if I had trusted him less I would not have been blindsided, but how can you really love anybody you don’t trust? And how can I be blamed for trusting him when he went to so much trouble to convince me that he loved me and that he was an honest man. He also once told me that he could never cheat because keeping it a secret would be too difficult for him. I believed that one too. The craziest part of all of this is that he didn’t recognize my not catching him at and calling him out on his cheating as me trusting him (a good thing), he thought it was proof that I didn’t really care if he cheated or not. He always was good at seeing everything in the most negative way possible. If he was miserable in his marriage it was because he made himself miserable not because I made him miserable.

    • P.S. I bet Schmoopie keeps him on a tight leash. Does her lack of trust mean that she loves him more than I did? In his feeble mind it probably does.

    • Great points @Chumpinrecovery! Of course the “low satisfaction marriage” thing was always a head scratcher to me. Two people are in that low satisfaction marriage and (most of the time) only one of them is cheating. I went through almost two years of the complete devalue stage and was getting ready to have “the talk” with the ex. You know the one “Something has to change because this isn’t working out for me.” (never mind-how would we know what the talk is since the cheating fuckwits never bothered with that step.) I digress.

      I even started exploring condos/apartments closer to where I worked because I thought we might end up divorced and then I found out about the cheating. I didn’t know about the devalue stage until I came to CL but I was extremely unhappy for those two years and I DIDN’T cheat. That doesn’t say much for the whole low satisfaction marriage theory. Both people in that marriage are unhappy: one because they can never be satisfied and the other because they’re being treated like crap. Only one of them cheats and that is because of character.

      My ex took my lack of snooping as a “sign that I didn’t love him” and used that against me as well. I swear they share one script and one brain cell!

    • Why did I put up with it for so long?

      I did it because I wanted our family to be a good family. I wanted my husband to be the good man that I knew he could be. I wanted my children to have a good father. He didn’t want to be a good man. He didn’t want to be a good father. He just wanted to indulge himself at the exclusion of everyone else.
      He was always miserable on vacation he was miserable on holidays he was always a miserable fuck.
      I spent 38 years of my life working very hard and I had my first appointment with the divorce attorney for real last Thursday.

      To the other chumps – heads up he didn’t change and it wasn’t a very good marriage and there was a lot of hardship and the kids didn’t have a good role model for relationships or for how fathers should treat their children.

  • I hope I can get out fast enough… I read these Ric sites too and I couldn’t help but think..bullshit..all bullshit..but then I thought maybe I was just being hateful or defensive because my heart had been ripped out and danced on..but here I am a year later and I still say bullshit…the only thing I am guilty of is loving the wrong person. I gave 110% of me and all he wanted was more… I trusted him because I am a trustworthy person. I believed him because I am a believable person. I am STILL faithful to him because there is no circumstance or situation that would make me unfaithful..it’s just not in my character. He knew that..and used every bit of my good qualities to hurt me in every way possible. He truly is garbage that I will be throwing to the curb! Rock on chump nation!!

  • And why is the onus on the chump to “make the marriage a good place to be”. How about the cheater making the marriage a good place for the chump to be? Oh wait, it is clearly the cheater who was dissatisfied so that puts the burden on the chump to make him/her satisfied. It is up to the one who actually cares about the marriage to make it cheat proof.

    In all fairness, our MC had planned to have us follow a process that would have put the onus on both of us to try and improve and be the best spouse we could be for the other without focusing on whether on not the other was succeeding at doing his/her part. Once that process was clarified for ex he bailed on the process. “what, it isn’t all about fixing Chumpinrecovery? You mean I have to improve too? Never mind then. I’m off with Schmoopie.”

  • Thanks for this post. Couldn’t have come at a better time! I was just treated to a 2 hour discussion of Cheater and his pain (don’t slap me–I didn’t know he was stopping at the house and I am working on overcoming my upbringing of listening politely to BS) Anyway, he was returning from his 4th ski trip with OW this year only to pick up some non-ski clothes and continue on to mommy’s house where she could listen to him cry for a bit, but he told me he felt ready to apologize (cue the circus music). I was interested. (I can see you are all skeptical and spoiler alert, you are right!) SO…his version of apology is that the anger he felt at me (you know, the anger that “justified” the affair because he just wasn’t getting “enough” from me) was his projecting his anger at his parents (he is 61 LOL) on me. So I asked how he planned to change his behavior. He got that blank look on his face and I realized the “sorry” was all I was going to get. He is deeply deeply in love with twice-divorced OW who has vast experience with affairs with married me so…surely I don’t expect him to give up that gem? Right? Cheaters don’t actually change behavior or sacrifice or think of others. Must have forgotten that rule. But hey, he did manage to say the word “sorry” so I should be all good to go and not at all angry that he keeps delaying getting the financial info I requested to my attorney, right? Seriously, the good Dr. Harley is an idiot and I hope he can spend the $ he earns from this bogus advice and still sleep at night (ok, I am lying. I hope he looks in the mirror and hates himself) Cheaters cheat because they are selfish. Maybe some have bad marriages (another way to handle that potential cheaters!) but many do not. Dr. Harley, I would never cheat. IF you would, that says something about you. My goal is to only know people who share my belief that cheating is bad and there is always a better way to handle problems.

  • While there wasn’t infidelity involved, I grew up watching my lovely mother cater in every way to my narcissistic father. From an early age I recognized that he called the shots, made my mother jump to his every whim, gave her no emotional sustenance at all, but had ample criticism for her (and the children) if things didn’t go his way. Many in her generation were trained to “make the marriage comfortable” at any cost to themselves, their self-esteem, or their individual dreams.

    In junior high, I found my mother’s copy of The Total Woman, and chastised her for reading that dreck. Because apparently she was not only supposed to raise 6 children largely single-handedly, cope with her own health problems, cook well-rounded meals every night, be the corporate wife when needed, and keep a mega-tidy house, she was also supposed to greet him with a cheerful demeanor & a martini as he walked in the door after work (preferably dressed in Saran Wrap if no children were around).

    Want to know how well “making the marriage a good place to be” ended up for her? After having his needs and his will catered to for decades, my father ramped up the abuse, did cheat on my mother in middle age, & drove them nearly to bankruptcy because none of his employers fully appreciated his many talents. She died prematurely (I’m sure the marital stress contributed), never knowing a day’s peace as an adult who could fulfill her own dreams in lieu of catering to a narcissist who could never be satisified.

    A big FU to the author of The Total Woman, and to the RIC, for advocating that we massage the feet of the people who have their foot on our throats.

    • When deciding whether to walk away I actually had a self reflection moment where I realized the mental/emotional toll it all was beginning to take on me physically. Not eating, sleeping, deep despair (all at same time of just burying my dad nine days earlier). I told myself “if you stay with this woman you will be going to an early grave.” I chose to save myself. I would urge others to do the same. Once you know what they did and how they felt about it (celebrated behind my back) you just can’t unknow it. You will never fully be happy again .

      • Zell- funny you should say celebrating behind your back. Today I was thinking of how my ex and his mistress turned girlfriend are congratulating themselves on their lying and cheating paying off. I gave them both a gift by leaving the state. Now he’s free to be “daddy” to her kids while abandoning his own. And I’m not anywhere around to put a crimp in their “blissfull” baseball,beer festival, bar lifestyle. Like you, I’ll take my kid anyway. These soulmates/ lovebirds can have each other….

    • Love your last line Tempest!!!

      I think that the long lasting consequences of books like “Total” and even a lot of early Feminist literature missed the point and reinforced some negative images for women. We cannot think “like” men — we are not men, and I, for one, would not want to be. I wonder if sensitive, thinking and caring men have to hide their true feelings and carefully monitor what they say in order to survive among the brutish men who have represented power and privilege for so long? I know that I learned early in life to bite my tongue, and “tip of the iceberg” my brain so that I would not attract unwanted attention from both the brutes and the mean girls.

      I didn’t agree with nor desire the stereotypical roles offered to me by my culture. I wanted to create my own niche, think my own thoughts, and not be caged or put upon some pedestal. I wanted to make my own choices about my sexuality, without the threat of unwanted pregnancy or std’s. I wanted to choose my partner(s) — but I didn’t want to be promiscuous “like a man” because I always considered that lifestyle dangerous and demeaning for BOTH partners. I wanted intimacy to mean something, something important! I don’t want to be left with all the work of keeping a house, or cooking, or childcare, and I certainly do not want to be expected to meet a man at the door bearing a martini and wrapped in Saran Wrap.

      My mother’s advice on abuse was “Remember, he has to go to sleep sometime.” But she was talking about physical abuse — she didn’t understand that we were both being abused verbally — and that my brothers were being abused as well. She would say “Your dad loves you, and he doesn’t know how to express love.” Pretty odd way to experience love — by always being criticized and never being praised. Never being told you were loved, or made him proud. I read somewhere that ‘lack of criticism was the closest thing to praise I ever knew’ (sorry, I can’t remember the source). I remember my reaction — immediate tears and a sad melancholy that lasted the rest of the day. It was hurtfully true.

      I have also heard that men are afraid their women will laugh at them, and women are afraid their men will kill them. What kind of love is that? If “making the marriage a good place to be” means living your life in subjugation to another person’s wishes and desires, and acting as if you have none — I would rather make plans to move out, thank you. I think marriage should be a partnership, and both people should strive to please and be pleased. Of course, this is theory for me. I have not seen it in action, or ever experienced it. I hope some of you have, and the rest of us may know this. It’s nice to believe it is possible.

      • My Mom and Dad. My Dad married my Mom because she was an astro physicist like him. He never expected her to do more than her share. They shared the household chores and the child rearing. They took turns going on business trips while the other was stuck at home with the kids. My Dad never resented not having a traditional wife. He was proud of it. The only time he got frustrated was when the physics department at the university didn’t appreciate my Mom and he could do nothing about it. My Mom appreciated him too and fully understood how lucky she was to have a man who would let he be who she wanted to be in an era when that wasn’t common. Neither one ever cheated and they didn’t argue much, at least not in front of us kids. This is what I grew up with. I guess that is why I was so hurt by some of ex’s old fashioned notions and seeming resentment of my career. I guess that is also why I was so shocked and hurt by the way he ended our marriage. We didn’t openly argue much either. I guess I expected him to be like my Dad but in reality he is the polar opposite (my Dad is also generous, humble, honest, and never a hypocrite).

    • Tempest, the description of your parents’ marriage reminds me of my parents’ marriage. My mom was forever rubbing my dad’s feet after a long day, cooking dinner, cleaning the house, doing most of the real work of childcare (my dad did the fun stuff), boosting his ego, buying sexy lingerie, going to school to earn a nursing degree while working full-time.

      Part of the reason he had a four-year affair? She spent ‘too much time with her doctor friends’ instead of paying attention to him. Essentially he punished her for working, because she had ZERO social life.

      My mother, now almost 70, recently told me she wonders what would have happened if she’d left after the affair. She says she closed off a major piece of herself, and that their marriage was never the same. It saddened me to hear her say that. She remembers my brother, sister and I telling her that we would support her if she chose to leave.

      Yes, a big FU to all those ridiculous books (and magazine articles, too).

      • PathofTotality–I’m sorry to hear your mother suffered by staying with her cheater husband. Closing off a piece of one’s self is probably the only way to stay in a marriage marred by infidelity. I hope her later years are fulfilling.

  • Oh, sadly, I went through the whole MB thing after d day. I did eveeything Harley and his gang told me to do. Poured over every article. Bought all the books. How pathetic I was. The truth is, even the ones who “overcame ” their marriage crisis didn’t seem credible. Almost felt like they were being paid to tell their ridiculous stories if bliss after infidelity. What a waste of time!

  • The RIC, inherently, is contradictory:

    On one hand, it assumes that your cheater is strong, inherently committed to your marriage, sorry for what he did, and wants to put in the hard work to reconcile.

    On the other hand, it assumes that your cheater is easily distracted and bored, too weak and sensitive to discuss his hurtful actions, and “wired” for infidelity.

    These same traits cannot coexist in the same person. Claiming otherwise is bullshit.

    • Absolutely. People do make mistakes. But narcs are not those people. They will try to sell it as a mistake. A midlife crisis. Your fault. Their great great grandmothers fault. But it is no mistake and they know exactly what they are doing.

  • The first time Dr. Cheaterpants left, 5 years into marriage, selling our newly built home (he picked out), 2 & 4 year old kids and I moving into our smaller comfy home so he could run off into the sunset with twice divorced, history of cheating on her husbands howorker. The only thing I could find to make fit into the why’s at the time was midlife crisis. We were only 34 years old, but I was going through this with someone else at work who had been married 25 years and that was the only thing that made sense. He was actually a cake eater and would be at the house waiting for me to get home after picking up the kids from daycare and preschool after I had worked all day, he would sit at the family table and eat the meal I prepared then leave when it was the kids bedtime at 8 pm. I’m sure that was thrilling for his schmoopie.

    I took that ass back and although there were good time and bad times, I realized it was a very one way type of relationship. I worked full time (more hours than him) and did all the adulting including grocery shopping, cooking meals, laundry, house cleaning, yard work. I would ask him if he’d sit in the kitchen and chat with me while I cleaned up–nope. He would get pissy if I watched TV in the basement with teen son and slam the door.

    He volunteer coached both kids so I thought he was doing his part. Never realizing he was using his kids for kibbles, coercing them to practice hours outside of scheduled practice. He discarded teen son when he quit letting him manipulate him. DD14 complied and became the golden child—everything revolved around her and her sleep, her schedule, what she needed (she’s a good kid so it’s not her fault–too good to not stand up to him). I thought this was what marriage was and what being good parents were, wanting to help kids succeed.

    That nasty ole fucker had it all. He had amazing wife, kids, home, pets. But he was always grumpy. Our lives always followed his idealize, devalue, discard cycle (I knew it was something he did, just didn’t realize it was a thing and he was a narc). When he started coaching our daughter, I knew he would burn out before she made it through high school and then he would be bitching and sabotaging the whole thing.

    When I discovered he was using DD14 to pursue he 20-something asst sports coach while he was volunteer coaching, it was like a double edged sword. I was devastated for my kids knowing it was the end of their family/home life as they knew it and I was giddy that I could be legitimately free of that high maintenance, never happy, always angry man. I thought young schmoopie was a lucky, lucky girl!

  • I ran across this right after DDay… and I thought I’d found the answer. I totally forwarded it to my cheater, I said “let’s try this” and that I was all in to try and “fix” it. I blamed myself for the affair because he “warned” me that his “love bank” was so low that he’d start looking elsewhere ( I needed to fuck him more to his satisfaction…. it was my fault I was frigid and if I wasn’t, he’d have felt no need to belly up to the pussy buffet.

    I’m having a lot of feelings of anger over this stupid RIC website right now.

    • Oh, Sunflower. I was giving my cheater sex 2-3 times every single week. The problem is that he wanted to go at it for hours, which became tedious at best, abusive at its worst. I kid you not, he told our first MC that he thought 4-5 hours PER DAY was “reasonable”. The REAL issue was that he suffered from “Delayed Ejaculation”, probably brought on by his masturbation habits, and then blamed ME for it because I had gained weight, I couldn’t do anal, wouldn’t drink his semen. Nevermind that he has had this problem with every single women he has ever been with, including Schmoopie. Apparently hookers actually fired him.
      I am far from frigid. I am a rare woman who easily has orgasms, and, in that sense, is a man’s dream.
      I believe that cheaters will find any flimsy argument or excuse to justify their cheating. Chumps are easy targets, because our cheaters know all of our buttons.

  • THIS is the institutionalized cultural crap that finds people in the sidelines, friends and family, oh-so-upset by what CheaterFuckWad did to you, and in a quickie move, resorting to BLAMING you. At a traumatic vulnerable low point of yoir whole life. Kick ‘me while they’re down! Feel better fast.
    What sleazy opportunistic crap.

  • I never noticed ANY of my cheaters making ANY effort to make our relationships ‘a good place to be’.

    At all.

    It was 100% about the Pick Me Dance, kibbles, and cake.

    I am so, so glad I found this site. When I met the last awful man, last year, within a few short weeks all the red flags were waving and all the alarm bells were ringing.

    Exactly the same situation: the Relationship is About Meeting My Needs, Not Yours. Your Needs are Met By Meeting My Needs.

    And let’s face it – chumps buy this narrative so very easily. Our needs really are met, superficially, by meeting the needs of all those around us.

    The journey out of codependency has been one of the best and most exciting ones of my life.

  • Yea, there’s a no amount of pillow fluffing that makes these folks happy. The great Dr. should explore the phenomenon of The Moving Target and the theory of Their Need For Unending and Constant Praise and Adoration That Will Suck Your Soul Dry.

    These folks can’t in-house anything and require excessive external everything. No one person can or should keep up with that mess.

    Mine needed a level of attention and praise for even the most mundane things that I could not maintain. Yes dear, you mowed the lawn, aren’t you the second coming of Christ. Let me tell you how great it looks for the 8th time. Near the end he was explaining to me why he was such a great guy and not a cheating and lying and family splitting monster by saying “remember…I was there for you when your dad was in the hospital for cancer. I supported you in spending time with him.” WTF?!? That’s called doing the bare minimum for human decency, let alone as a husband. That’s baseline. But yea, thank you so much Mr. Saint. If course you were depositing that into your “I’m Amazing” bank account. That account requires constant funding from outside sources.

  • If you ever go to that Harley site, marriagebuilders, you will see that those folks are nuts, delusional.
    Harley himself is a moron, a sexist dinosaur. His shit is idiotic.
    His forum is dominated by some real asshole, Melody Lane, who bullies folks and thinks she knows everything. Essentially, she thinks Harley is a god.
    SHE IS DUMBER THAN A ROCK, TOO.

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