Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

UBT: I cheated because you’re stale

Dear Chump Lady,

I’m about 6 months out from D-Day, and a few weeks short of when I found out my now ex-wife was having an affair. I suppose on the grand scale of Chumpdom, I made out with luck. Our marriage is now officially legally dissolved (“no-fault”, whatever the hell that means), with no kids in the mix, and everything split in my favor. (She couldn’t wait to get out… I’m just that terrible I guess!)

I’ll spare the whole sob story, but we were together for 7 years, engaged for 2. She left me for the affair partner one week before our first wedding anniversary. I’ve calculated that her affair began about 7 months into our marriage (the ol’ 7-Month Itch: a modern twist on the classic). She moved right in with the AP, and they’re already engaged.

I’m about 85% to Meh, and I view her simply as a child trapped in the body of a 31-year-old woman.

I’ve been working on myself physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I’ve achieved a respectable engineering job at a renowned firm. I’ve lost 23 pounds, gained quite a bit of muscle, and I’m fitting into shirts I haven’t worn in years. People have complimented me on my strength in the face of adversity.

And yet, I still have days of bewilderment. I’m trying to resign myself to the fact that I will never untangle the skein, lest I lose my mind entirely. As a rational person, I’m trying to assign a rational behavior to an irrational person. It’s simply not possible. But I digress.

Back in October, when I realized I had lost the Pick-Me Dance, I asked her what she truly felt about me. This was via text, as she refused to discuss anything in person. She replied with a wall of words that, at the time, made some sense. But as I look back on it now, it just seems like bullshit. For some reason, I keep going back to it. I know it’s an absolute load, but I can’t seem to process it.

I’m wondering if you can feed it through the Universal Bullshit Translator? If not to just slap some sense into me and remind me to trust that she sucks as a human. Here’s the lowdown (briefly formatted, as she possesses the literary tact of an ogre):

“I’m glad you feel that I didn’t go in search for someone else because I truly didn’t. When things get rough you get intense, it’s too much for me. This is why I had to text you this. Believe me I feel you deserve the respect of talking to you in person, but I’m not strong enough to do it. Confrontation is obviously hard for me. In our relationship and marriage I didnt feel like there was a spark, passion or that there will be.

I absolutely loved you as a person. You’re amazing. I just do not feel that our personalities mesh as well as spouses as they do as best friends. I honestly feel that way. It’s hard for me to say because I do NOT mean harm to you. It’s my fault for not clarifying with myself what I want in life and I pulled you through a long relationship and a marriage with different ideas. They weren’t obvious to me. I had to really dig in myself and find out what I felt wasn’t making me happy.

You always treated me well and with the best of intentions. I felt like our relationship became stale and uneventful. I felt like I was a weak wife to you. I’m sorry. I realized how the different parts of our personalities and reactions to things in life and marriage clashed and I knew it wasn’t going to change. It’s not that I see some fault in you and your inability to “change” , I don’t want you to change. You are perfect the way God made you. I feel there is someone else who will fulfill you even moreso than you say I did. I hope and pray more than anything that you will only get stronger with God and your life will be everything it should be and it’s overwhelmingly satisfying. Because you deserve that.”

I feel like I can pick through it and decipher some of the absolute horse shit in there, but I just need to hear it from a third party. (My mom doesn’t count — sorry Mom!). She refused to acknowledge the affair, and she makes herself seem justified in leaving, as if I’m some insane, yet boring asshole, incapable of romance.

Best Regards,


Dear Bob,

Of course I agree with your mother — it’s horse shit. But Bob, your fatal error was asking a cheater how she “truly felt” about you. That’s like ordering a 20-cubic-foot dumpster full of horse shit and being surprised when 20-cubic-foot dumpster of horse shit is delivered to your door.

But hey, it’s fodder for the UBT, so here you go.

“I’m glad you feel that I didn’t go in search for someone else because I truly didn’t.

I just can’t sustain interest in anything longer than 7 months. It’s like I binge-watched Bob and flipped the channel. Not in a searching way, but in a Bob-is-finished-what’s-new-on-Netflix kinda way.

I’m glad you agree with my lack of accountability. I truly suck.

When things get rough you get intense, it’s too much for me.

You emote like a human. It’s too much for me.

This is why I had to text you this. Believe me I feel you deserve the respect of talking to you in person, but I’m not strong enough to do it.

I considered carrier pigeon, Morse code, and smoke signals, but realized you deserved the dignity of a text.

I’m not strong enough to talk to you in person. I can suck the dick of another guy while I’m married to you, and co-habitate with him before my divorce is final. However, the over-powering intimacy of in-person conversation defeats me.

Confrontation is obviously hard for me. In our relationship and marriage I didn’t feel like there was a spark, passion or that there will be.

Your dullness compels my cowardice. Adulting is obviously hard for me.

I absolutely loved you as a person. You’re amazing.

You’re astoundingly spark-less and devoid of passion. I cannot possibly imagine a future with you. I love that in a person.

I just do not feel that our personalities mesh as well as spouses as they do as best friends.

I don’t feel like our personalities mesh. You’re committed, employed, honest, and look nice in a fitted shirt. I’m a psychopath. I have a new host fiancé now, but you’re welcome to be Plan B best friends.

I honestly feel that way.

I honestly feel you’re of use.

Honestly assessing your usefulness is the only thing I’m honest about. #BFF

It’s hard for me to say because I do NOT mean harm to you.

I mean to use you up, until you’re a dry husk withered under a desert sun. I mean to suck all the vital life force out of you. I mean to impale you at whim and make you my personal pincushion. I do NOT care if I harm you. Actually, I kind of get off on it. #kibbles

It’s my fault for not clarifying with myself what I want in life and I pulled you through a long relationship and a marriage with different ideas.

It comes down to what I want in life. My long relationship with myself. I should clarify what I want, like marriage to different ideas, different selves.

I pull you along.  #lovebarnacle

#burden #freenow

They weren’t obvious to me. I had to really dig in myself and find out what I felt wasn’t making me happy.

I am not obvious to me. I had to really plumb several centimeters of depth to find myself. There at the bottom of the shallow pie plate of my soul was unhappiness.

Who knew?

You always treated me well and with the best of intentions.


I felt like our relationship became stale and uneventful.

What with seven whole months passing since the wedding. Why can’t life be ice swan sculptures and cupcakes? Why aren’t there more champagne toasts and poofy dresses? Why will no one buy me an Insta-Pot and matching napkin rings? Where is my flotilla of bridesmaids? Must I traverse this dance floor of life ALONE?

Why isn’t life a Festival of ME?

Time for another wedding. #bridezilla #arethethankyoucardsdryyet?

I felt like I was a weak wife to you. I’m sorry.

I felt a twinge of something… and then it passed. Sorry!

I realized how the different parts of our personalities and reactions to things in life and marriage clashed and I knew it wasn’t going to change.

My suckitude is immutable.

It’s not that I see some fault in you and your inability to “change”, I don’t want you to change.

Just the sad, stale, uneventful, passionless bits. Work on that. But of course you’re unable because… personality clash.

You are perfect the way God made you.

God makes a lot of stupid things. Wasps, blob fish, Congress…

I feel there is someone else who will fulfill you even moreso than you say I did.


I hope and pray more than anything that you will only get stronger with God and your life will be everything it should be and it’s overwhelmingly satisfying. Because you deserve that.”

Getting over me will be impossible, but I pray God gives you the strength to be my best friend and eternal kibble supply. Because I deserve that.


Bob, you dodged a bullet. Actually, if narcissists were bullets, she’d be an AR-15.

Run. Take cover. God speed on your healing.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Bob…. The epic search for the “feels”, the “passion”. Be willing to bet she was head over heals with feelings and passion at the beginning of the relationship, huh !!! Don’t worry the same thing will happen with the AP as well. He won the turd lottery. They go from person to person like that. Something wrong in the brain.

    Love how she goes “God” tripping at the end. All of sudden they become all religious, desperate to rationalize their epically bad behavior of committing adultery on someone they had a relationship with that from the outside (including you) probably seemed like an epic romantic love story in the beginning. Probably have a million photographs documenting it. It’s all blueprint. The sad thing is it’s really hard to spot these women. This scares the heck out of me.

    It wasn’t your fault. You were lucky to get out before any kids were involved. Just keep telling yourself you are better off and moving forward.

      • Yes – we must drag God into it….

        She is basically saying that it’s just too much for her to be accountable for – so we’ll ask God to come in with his big magic wand and make it all right again !!!!

        Nutter through and through. You dodged a bullet on this one. Imagine waking up 20 years from now and thinking back to how it would have played out if you were still married to Twinkle Twat.

        Go enjoy your new life !!!!

        • Bringing up God rationalizes her behavior and let’s Bob know that she’s a Christian, a good Christian girl who is pure of thought and would never purposely sseduce a new man on purpose. She’s also a deep thinker, look at all the wonderful insight I thunk to text you.
          Everything she did so with good intentions, that’s evident when she said “she hopes and prays more than anything” (it’s what good Christians say) that you will get stronger (you big crybaby sissy wimp). I hope and pray more than anything that you will only get stronger with God and your life will be everything it should be and it’s overwhelmingly satisfying. Because you deserve that.”
          I’m good Christian and have done nothing wrong.

          • I’m not calling you a sissy or wimp Bob, she very well could be coming up with these thoughts to justify herself.

            • Ha! I totally hear ya. “I’m a Christian and therefore I have morals, even though I’m definitely breaking a commandment.” She’s gotta justify it somehow, eh?

              • Massive justification. The “Christian cheater” thing drives me insane. They bastardize MY faith and MY values and then proclaim them #FacebookJesusLovers.

                Will she wear white to the next wedding? Gosh, I hope she’s not too nervous on her wedding night


                OMG, the hypocrisy is sickening. And oh my, the need for drama. Since she emotionally mooched off you for several years, it may take her some years (and a baby or 3,) to wake up and smell the diaper.

                Why doesn’t she feel as “in love” or wifey with the new guy? Is it just b/c she’s sleep deprived, overweight and her episiotomy hurts??

                She’ll really need a BFF then! Fortunately that’s not your job anymore.

                Give it time. You really will be happy again, and there will come a time you realize she has done you a favor, however harshly and grossly. Give yourself some time.

                I promise you it gets better.

              • Claiming your a christian helps support their image management. Bob had to have done something. Doesn’t sound like you’re a christian Bob, she clearly states that she hopes “Bob gains strength through God”. implying that perhaps this is why she left. “she knew Bob wasn’t going to change” Bob must be a jerk.
                Bob, there’s a lot of image management in this letter, no doubt she is sharing these insinuations to anyone who will listen.
                “You’re perfect the way God made you” what a beautiful “christian” thing to say…

                “She loves you as a person and does not mean to harm you” only a good christian woman could be so sweet and thoughtful..
                She “honestly” feels this way.. there’s that word “honest” she’s being honest like a good christian. “honest”

                She really had to dig in to find out what was making her unhappy. See he made an effort to save the marriage, she dug in.
                Stale Bob, like day old bread, and not a christian.. like herself.
                Such a sweetheart she is, Bob you stale thing you..

                My ex said similar things implying that he’s just a great guy who couldn’t live with someone mentally unstable (me) portrayed himself as a victim. With tees in his eyes he claimed he had tried everything to save out marriage but I wasn’t interested in going to therapy or even trying. I asked him to go to MC which he refused, he had left the marriage mentally long before I realized. X wanted someone he had more in common with, X forgot to mention he already had found someone. X found his true love on. treadmill in a hotel gym.

          • Omfg, the God trip…my ex is all about Jesus now-Good good fearing Christian man that he has become….
            He had OW turned wife, pick-up our kid from school. When I pulled up, she had him in the front seat, w/o a carseat!
            So when I texted him that our kid’s safety is of the utmost importance to me, and that he needs to be riding safely and lawfully while on his clock, or I will detain him; he had the nerve to respond with the Bible verse that talks about focusing on your own behavior instead of your neighbor’s. The irony and hypocrisy. I will forever fucking hate him. Just more evidence for if I ever get my day in court.
            I have the strongest boundaries in place, next to no contact; but can’t even co-parent with a fuckwit or have an adult conversation with them.

    • Bob – I received a very similar email from a former gf who I am fairly certainty has BPD, a cousin of narcissism. She just couldn’t sustain feelings and went from being obsessed, to controlling, to devaluing and discarding at a rate of knots. Really confusing, not least because it came on the back of a cheating ex-wife and I was in need of the validation she offered at first.

      After some distance (and I really cannot say how important it is to maintain NC – mine would discard then come back for rebounds so long as I let her) you do see very clearly through their BS and how all their horse shit is about them and not about you. I would read up on narcissist and borderlines, and how you can heal from their abuse and fucked up thinking.

      But most of all – consider yourself lucky you’ve lost a 100lb deadweight who was probably sucking the life out of you with her one sided view of the relationship. I breathe a sigh of relief whenever I see my ex as she quickly moves to manipulation mode and it’s now so transparent. Hope you get to Meh soon.

      • I would second that about reading up on BPD and Narcs. Someone on here recommended FJELSTAD, Margalis Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist
        – How to End the Drama – my God I read that book with my mouth open. My ex ticked every single box for BPD (he is also diagnosed bipolar). It really, really helped me to understand that he is not capable of change so you just have to get out of there.

        • I heard the bit about how they knew i never would change(now they are a fortune teller too..) and how i was their best friend. Its all the same song and dance. I think what they really mean is they know they will never change. And they know we are staring to see thru them a little too much. But we will always be besties!!! Not.

        • Thanks for the recommendation, I just ordered the “Healing from…” book by Fjelstad which I hope will help deal with the brutal discard. I still find myself bouncing back to that gobsmacked feeling and disbelief that I was married to such a total POS for 3 decades. The preview pages spoke to me.

          I guess I still am an Amazon Chump but no more “Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands” bullshit! Yes, I bought that book during OW#1 10 years ago and said, “Shit, I already DO all the stuff recommended here, now what? I must still be doing something wrong.” I can see clearly that I wasn’t screwing up but was married to an insatiable, emotionally retarded man-baby. Dr. Laura doesn’t have anything in her black bag for the dipshit who lacks a heart, brain, courage, and now, by his choice, he has lost his home.

          • I agree, Dr. Laura’s books on “Proper Care and Feeding” don’t have a section on what to do if your spouse has a cluster B personality disorder.

            What she does say, though, is that if you find out your spouse has cheated on you – even one time – pack your bags and head out the door (or pack their bags and kick them out). I don’t agree with everything she says, but she has a zero tolerance policy for cheaters – something Chumps like me desperately need to hear.

            • Agreed. OW#1 was supposed to have only been an EA which was hugely painful in that someone was able to steal his true love from me (especially since she was my complete opposite). In my mind it wasn’t sex, it was something even more sacred, and obviously I had been so awful he had to seek emotional comfort elsewhere.

              But he is a liar so later it trickled out that there was at least some second-base stuff going on. Probably PA all the way, but he lied and lied and lied. If I knew then what I know now I wouldn’t have bothered trying to do the pick-me-fix-me dance for him. It is his character.

              • Mine was supposedly an EA. Made sense because she lived overseas. Oh no she flew over here. Like CL said, grown ups don’t get together to play scrabble.
                I found out it was a PA by seeing the hundreds of photos on g plus, five minutes later was GTFO!

            • Wildcat – actually, that sounds different from what I’ve heard Dr. Laura preach. She often blames the cheated-on spouse for not treating her husband properly. Usually more directed to women than men. That’s one part of her philosophy I actually hate her for. I wrote her about it but no response.

              I could finish the ‘Proper Feeding of Husbands’. Just the title alone is enough of a turn-off but, like you, I was already doing that and at my wits end.

              • I haven’t listened to her for several years, so perhaps Dr. Laura has also joined the almighty RIC relating to infidelity. So f*ucking sad. I remember her telling several people years ago on the air that you don’t give the cheating spouse a second (or third) chance, just get out, and that you need to watch what they do, not what they say. Maybe I am just projecting! Ha ha

      • For sure. Based on what I’ve read here at CN, I did delve a little bit into some research regarding her actions, and I can say with fair certainty that she has Impulsive BPD. She ticked every single box. I couldn’t believe it. I read it to my mom and she was blown away as well.

        NC seems to be quite effective. Our divorce has been official for only a few weeks, but I blocked her immediately after receiving the judgement. It’s so nice not having to wonder when she’s going to pop in for a text.

        I appreciate the kind words 🙂


        • Bob, you are mighty! My D-Day was January 20 of this year. Found out that STBX is having an affair with his (now former) best friend’s wife. We have been together 14 years, just married last April. According to STBX, the affair consummated last October. Which would have us married just about 5.5 months at that point.

          I have a consultation with an attorney tomorrow. I also live in a ‘no fault’ state, so am hoping this will be helpful. Thank you for sharing your story. And, congrats on the new job!

    • Bob, This is the letter that my STBXH would write to me if he could actually write a letter. His confusing one liners over the past 18 months have lead me to the conclusion that he pretty much feels the same way as your XW. It’s a bitter pill to swallow to realize just how little you actual meant to the person you committed your life to. I am FINALLY getting to the point where I can see how lucky I am to be rid of this “person” who has no real depth of feeling for anyone but himself – Oh and the OW, she’s “The One”!

      Sadly the OW has already moved on to someone new. Too bad, so sad.

      • Glad to hear you’re on your way to Meh. You’re right, it’s certainly a slap to come to that realization, but once that fog clears, it just becomes that much more manageable.

        And yes! The AP is always “The One”! Until the next “The One” comes by. And the next one. And the next one….!

        • Bob, your ex wife will act HAPPY (= “right”) and she will pretend to be long after she knows she’s not. That means she will “try” at the new marriage a bit longer than she feels like it, b/c… you know, it won’t look so hot to dump him too fast.

          But here’s the thing. The one thing that is always worse than being alone, is wishing you were.

          That day is coming for her. He won’t fix her or “make” her happy. And then she’ll leave, again…and you will not know b/c you will be a dot on the horizon.

    • Agreed Zell, Bob these types are LOW CLASS TRASH and your so worthy of more I have just been through the same thing after 24 years of marriage I know it sucks!????

      • Thanks for the kind words. I can’t even imagine something like this happening after 24 years :/ I hope you’re doing well and on your way to Meh!

    • Hi Zell,

      Thank you kindly. You’re absolutely right. For years and years, all I ever heard was how perfect I am, how I’m the only one she can truly be herself around, I’m her soulmate. Suddenly, it was deny, deny, deny! “I’ve never been romantically attracted to you, we clash, blah blah blah”. But it’s certainly documented! It took me awhile to realize that she completely rewrote our history — a common cheater tactic (as if they all attend Cheating 101 and read from the same textbook).

      She sees herself as a devout Christian. Throughout our whole relationship, she was on my case because I didn’t want to attend her church (see: cult). She even has Bible verses tattooed on her body. I’m not sure what Bible she reads, but it sure as shit isn’t the same one I read.


      • Bible verse tattoos. And she’s breaking most of the commandments.

        The Bible says God’s word needs to be written in our hearts. Obviously her self-serving abridged translation rewrote that passage to be just written skin deep. Literally. That makes it easy to ignore what she doesn’t want to hear.

        Let’s see where this goes, once you get past the top layer of her onion.

        False gods? Herself.
        Idols? Her image in the mirror.
        Misuse the Lord’s name? Yeah, as in use it to justify her misbehavior. She put it in ink for the world to see.
        Rest on the Sabbath? In OM’s arms, of course.
        Honor her parents? Did she learn this from them? (Maybe she did.)
        Murder? Her victims lived, but she still killed everything.
        Adultery? As if this needs a mention.
        Steal? If she left anything intact consider yourself lucky.
        Lie? Anytime her mouth is open she’s lying.
        Covet? Everything for herrrrrr!

        Did I say she was just breaking most of the commandments? My bad. I underestimated the count.

    • Omfg!! My ex whore went all religion after her affair and abandonment of her family. She couldn’t send a text without the prayer hands emoji. I swear they are all spun from the same cloth!!

    • Scares the heck out of me, as well. My ex, however, goes God tripping and demands that, since I have forgiven his lies, I forget them as well and reconcile. Ummmm…. no. I’ve been sent text after text of the same drivel above, until I blocked him. Oh, but it does play on chumpy empathic heartstrings…

      I’m scared of the thought of ever trusting another man, ever opening up and getting vulnerable with anyone again. No, I’m not going to live in that fear, but Chump Nation is helping me get my front sights focused.

    • Cannot agree more with the comments. I am 6 months out after 27 years together – with 7 of those years him being with the OW and stealing over hundreds of thousands of dollars from me and our three sons. His sob story told to our almost 21 year old is that one of the reasons that he had an affair was “he did not like how I treated our boys and was not a good mother”. Yet the latest of the line of how I am to blame. That I am the one who spent my salary however I liked – on groceries, clothes, tutors, school supplies and babysitters to facilitate our relationship. Nothing wrong with him taking out $50 K of his 401K to finance the affair. It is not you – it is her! Be glad that you got out when you did And not to have kids and still have the abusive person in your life. Godspeed

  • Dear engineer Bob,
    Horseshit is a new technological development for for building to support heavy loads of bad character. As long as humidity is over 50%. But if your staleness dries it out and anything built with it crumbles.

    Your mom has a built-in UBT.

    I’m glad such a great guy, an engineer at that, has his whole life in front of him. Good luck and fix your picker.

    • And Tracy, this was one of the best UBTs, is horseshit easier to translate?

    • This is how it goes.
      We turn and focus and rebuild.
      And every once in awhile we try to treat them and their concerns as if they are an honest caring respectable decent reciprocal aware human being.
      But turns out our perceptions were spot on the whole time. There wasn’t enough love and respect to turn turn into a decent reciprocal healthy human being.
      We seek closure with someone who honestly is incapable of insight, of self awareness, of CARING.
      On my frig is a note that reminds me
      HE. DIDNT. CARE.
      How cool is it you are riding your self up in a well cared for , healthy caring life.
      When you come round to that place of lack of closure, go to your frig, where just Tracy’s wordswill be, to remind you.
      You take care.

      • Yes absolutely. Thanks a ton 🙂 You’re totally right. They don’t care! And having that note right on the fridge, being seen daily, serves as a reminder that your logical side is correct; we’re not losing our minds!

  • Just remember her actions… do not let her smokescreen words fool you or confuse you. MONTHS of cheating and lying tell you how really concerned she was not to hurt you. (She wasn’t.) Don’t forget that.

    • Actions speak louder than words.
      And, if you find yourself spending a whole lot of time having to give them the benefit of the doubt, stop and ask yourself why there is so much doubt.

    • Hi DM,

      Thank you kindly. I fell for it for a month or so, but then came to grips with what was really happening. During the worst times, your site, along with CN, was instrumental in helping me get through this. As a Christian myself, I wrestled with the consequences of this whole thing. But you had written one article that really drove it home for me: getting a divorce is not breaking a commandment; adultery is. And so, I viewed her deliberate breach of one of God’s commandments as an act of a non-believer, and as such, found comfort in the words of Paul in 1 Cor. 7:15.

      Thanks again my friend.


  • Bob,

    Be grateful that you are young and successful. Be grateful that you did not waste another minute on her. Also know that you deserve so much better. Finally, delete her text!

    • The great thing about a divorce with no kids is that there’s nothing left to force the door to stay open. No visits to arrange, no need to keep tabs on anything due to potential future financial fights, etc. Now, you can block block block!

      It’s so empowering. No calls, no texts, no visibility of social media. A relief. Total Zen, even.

      I agree with delete, and I add a suggestion to block. She gave up any reasonable claim on friendship with you when she betrayed you horribly. Friends don’t do that. She doesn’t deserve your bandwidth. She made her bed, literally. That’s her new life now.

      • Absolutely. She is gone. Everything is blocked, passwords changed, the whole nine. You’re right, it’s really a fantastic feeling not having to wonder when she’ll pop in with a text. She has no idea what I’m up to; I’ve completely vanished. Whether or not she cares, I don’t know, nor do I care, but it’s fun to think about her losing her mind wondering how I am. I’ve seen her stalk previous boyfriends before, so I wouldn’t be surprised if she tried to do the same to me.

        It’s really a damn shame, too. She was one of my best girl friends before we even started dating. So not only did she throw away the marriage, she threw away a 13 year long friendship as well. That’s a large part of what makes it sting so bad. On what planet does a “best friend” betray so wickedly?

        Thanks for the support 🙂

    • Thank you so much. I feel more grateful each day. That text is gone, along with the whole text thread, and many other things that may tempt me to visit the past one day.

  • Chump Lady that wasn’t beautiful. Truly a masterpiece of UBT translation. Brava! I chortled whilst sipping my morning coffee.

    Bob! You’ll be just fine. Keep working on that personal growth. A closet full of fitted shirts is worth way more than that cheating hussy!

  • She engaged in acts that she knew would hurt you to your very core for nothing more than her own personal satisfaction.

    Walk away from that crazy.

  • Bob I am amazed that the UBT managed to get anything of any sense out of that at all! It was complete word salad designed to send you around in circles, there is deliberately NO depth to it, no actual explanations of anything, literally just platitude on top of platitude like some sort of literary layer salad… bottom line, look at her actions and ignore the words, she cheated after 7 months of marriage and hightailed it out of your life like the road runner. She SUCKS.

    • Thank you! Word salad is absolutely right haha! It’s like the rambling of a fool. You should’ve seen it before I formatted it, just brutal. It’s times like these I look back and breathe a sigh of relief. Onward to a woman with a brain in her head!

  • She thinks you’re awesome and special and perfect just the way you are NOW, because you’re keeping the lines of communication open and giving her the attention she craves.

    You will turn into a “small, bitter asshole” the SECOND you go no contact and telling anyone who asks for the honest, uncensored facts of what she did.

    • Yup. I went from “Tempest is the love of my life” after I threw Hannibal out of the house and he had the sadz in front of friends whose pity he needed, to “the mentally unstable bitch I should have divorced years ago” when I had the temerity to maintain NC.

    • Exactly!! I went from a “good person who is honest and trustworthy and did nothing to deserve this” during our reconciliation to, after the divorce and my speaking the truth, an angry bitter woman who is horribly unforgiving. Then he contacted my lawyer to say that he was going to take me to court because I was saying bad things about him and violating the non-disparagement clause. She laughed and told him that I had every right to speak the truth about what happened in my own life.
      So empowering!

    • Yes definitely. She’s tried to reach out to me here and there, but I just ignore it. Now she’s blocked, so any further attempts will just float around in the ether until the heat death of the universe.

      I sincerely hope she trash-talks me. I’ve never made an enemy in my life; anyone who knows me will see that she is absolutely whacked. I don’t advertise what happened, but I can guarantee that many of our mutual friends (along with her family) have deduced what really happens. Especially when she posts pictures online of her kissing this guy over the summer (so I’ve been informed, anyway).

  • I was a good guy too. There was going to be someone even more compatible for me too. She wished me the best too. Until I filed. Now, magically, I abused her our entire marriage. She has no choice but to fight just to force me into bankruptcy. She has no choice but to demand money and not pay bills and send lawyers letters costing me thousands and resulting in an inability to even afford food for my kids and me running at a balance at the lawyer after I drop 6k every 2 weeks into the account. This will result in another motion. No choice I tell you.

    Bro you dodged a fucking bullet. My story isn’t even that bad. It’s not uncommon. You know what’s uncommon, your story. Erase her texts and thank whatever god you pray to, that he got you off so fucking easily.

    • DunChumpin – I hear you. They are SO VERY NICE and wish you the best until you stop chumping around and then Whoa Nellie!

      It’s a bit of an understatement to say I went nuclear when I found out about the cheating with married mother of three-ethics professor-Sunday school teacher and all my hard earned money that went towards their trips to see f-ing musicals. (No, seriously. Musicals. God, they are both nightmares.) I went ballistic and the chump had left the building.

      My ex-narc’s response? He was so scared of me and couldn’t trust me because I yelled at him for blowing up our lives and hurting me and my daughter. So scared. How dare I raise my voice when I had been so calm throughout his Trump Junior idiot bullshit for 13 years? I must be evil. Yes, that’s why he left. Forget about all that nice crap he said about me. I don’t think he’s great so I must be really bad.

      They’re so predictable it’s funny.

      Looking back, I see that he had everyone in “entirely good” or “entirely evil” boxes. Do one thing he didn’t like and BOOM, switch boxes. He even did this with children. If a kid slighted him (because kids are you know, kids) and wham, they are forever in the “bad person” category. I’m talking for years. It’s so bizarre.

      Their brains are truly primitive. Good going Bob! Run like hell and celebrate your freedom!

      • Thanks! “Primitive brain” is right. It’s sometimes all you can do to just look at them as children. I’d even go as far as to say that there are plenty of children with more dimensions than some of these clowns.

    • I feel for you, man. I can’t even imagine. Straight out of Cheating 101, these assholes rewrite the whole relationship. They’re absolutely deluded.

      Hang in there, she will get hers. You may never see it, or know that it happened, but what goes around comes around. You just keep doing what you can do, and provide for your kids and people will see what’s really going on.

  • Brilliant UBT! Wasps, blob fish, Congress. Hahahaha!
    My only advice is no contact, if you haven’t done it already…this one sounds like she will try to come back around if she doesn’t con another poor sod to do so first once the new host becomes “stale”.
    My brother married one of these types…they don’t age all that well….she went from man to man to man while she left her poor kid with her parents (not my brother’s child) as the beautiful damsel in distress who has finally found the passion she was looking for. Every. Time. Now that she is older, that con doesn’t work all that well.
    My best to you Bob! You are free from Queenbaby!

  • “I didn’t go in search for someone else”…I just didn’t have any boundaries, so I intentionally built and strengthened a connection to someone else–instead of directing that energy toward you–and then was BLOWN AWAY when I fell in love with that person and found you to be “stale.” None of this was intentional…except every single decision I made along the way.

    The grass is greener where you water it.

    • ^^^^^^^ THIS!!!

      Well said JC.

      Another well timed post CL. Thank you and CN for starting my morning in the right direction.

      • Agreed.

        My therapist was big on fables, and he liked to tell the story of a Cherokee boy who adopted two wolf cubs, and when he asked his grandfather which one he thought would grow the largest, the grandfather sagely replied, “The one you feed.”

        “The grass is greener where you water it” will go up on the board right next to “The one you feed.”

    • Same. It “just happened.” I said something on the phone one day that was insufficiently comforting AKA not the exact thing he wanted to hear, and “that created a big space and someone else just capitalized on it.” The intervening events, specifically him going to a strip bar, getting hammered, peeling PolePussy off her pole and going home with her — all my fault. After all it was my failure that created the big space.

    • The other man will soon tire of her insatiable need to be pandered to. Or she will become bored with him. Bottomless pits. You are lucky to be free at a still youthful time. And so lucky that you had no children to watch her torment!

      • Yeah – I got the “I didn’t mean for this to happen” line too. It would be interesting to hear her try to explain how she would repeatedly accidentally have unprotected sex with another man that required her to drive an hour each way. “Whoopsie!”

    • JC,

      I literally slow clapped for your comment and created a username just to reply to this.

  • Bob please be thankful you won’t spend any more precious time with this woman. I know it is horrible to think the person you thought really liked you and enjoyed your company actually didn’t really like you that much. Not enough to stick around anyway. I of course don’t know her but your situation sounds a lot like my situation and what i have had to accept is the person i thought i was with never really existed. They were totally fake. They are not your best friend(i was told the same thing.)

    Bob, you are too good for her. Too real. And that terrifies her. She knew you would see thru her. She knew there was nothing there. I hope you realize it wasn’t you. People who don’t really know how to love and appreciate others always have to put the blame back on someone else and they enjoy the power of hurting someone who has a lot to offer. Because they know they have nothing to offer and they desperately need to feel they are somehow better. People who are kind and good don’t need to make you feel bad about yourself.

    • “ People who are kind and good don’t need to make you feel bad about your self.”
      Phew. Perfect for the Narc thread.

    • Thank you so much for the kind words. It definitely does seem like the person I thought she was has never really existed. I don’t even think she knows who she is.

      It took me quite some time, but I can now see that it’s all on her. Though I still have moments where I doubt myself, I just remind myself that she’s a child, and it helps me clear my head.

      “Because they know they have nothing to offer and they desperately need to feel they are somehow better”

      Absolutely. The guy she left me for is a complete loser. Arrests, bankruptcies, you name it. I think you nailed it right here; water seeks its own level.

  • You asked her how she felt about you. And you got paragraph after paragraph about her. Maybe a sentence about you being great, and then another pile of stuff all ‘me me me… oh and me…. me me me me. Don’t forget. Me’ … that’s all I need to know.

    Calling this horse shit is actually offensive to the healthy, clean, natural, ‘great for fertilizer one day’ essence that makes up horses shit. This is the snake oily shmarmy anal leakage that comic book guy from the Simpson’s gets after eating those chips that are made from inedible fat ( It gives new meaning to the statement ‘she’s all that and a bag of chips’….

  • So glad that someone else agrees with me about the uselessness of Wasps!

    Bob-you’ve fallen into the trap that many of us have tripped into thousands of times before you. You’ve gone to the source of your agony to get answers that you truly believe will give you closure or understanding. Unfortunately, as you’ve found out, it does little else but give you a migraine. You’d be better off talking to a brick wall. At least when it gives you no response, you understand that it’s because you were expecting too much from an inanimate object. Expect the same from your ex and you will be golden. Nothing to see there so it’s best to move on.

    As always, CL’s UBT is right on the money but do it and yourself a huge favor and cut off it’s supply of cheater word salad. Your divorce is final, you don’t have children and from where I’m sitting exactly no good reason to keep in touch. This brings to mind two very important words: No Contact! Block her on your phone, filter her email to the “junk” folder and block her on all forms of social media. Cut out anyone that shares her orbit, including her family.

    All of these things will help you forget that she continues to convert oxygen into carbon dioxide and trust me, that is a good thing!

    • Yup. AND CL says each time we are tempted to go down the rabbit hole of Untangling the Skein of Fuckupedness, instead, turn and stop thinking and DO something to contribute to the gorgeous new life you are building.
      I practice that one like a religion, because I don’t want to suffer any more.
      Because I want to learn to be full of my beautiful new life.

      • I love every single word you just said! I need to contribute more to my own life and make it beautiful. Thanks.

    • No doubt! She is officially out of my life, and I don’t plan on ever reconnecting with her on purpose. I’m fairly certain her family had an idea of what was going on; none of them contacted me after the everything went down. I’ve lumped them all together in the “Crazy” pile. As they say, the shit doesn’t fall far from the ass!

      • I always liked ” the nut doesn’t fall far from the tree” married ( wish I could think of another term as I now see the last 23 years as anything but a marriage) to a crazy person I didn’t know existed until I finally put all the pieces together..banged my coworker in my home..while I was there having a party for my staff..then crept up on my sleeping sister..while she was babysitting for me.. finished off with screwing my best friend..and her husband..robbed me financially in every way possible and still had the nerve to say if we can’t work this out I would still like to be your friend…really?! Holy shit..the delusional bastard wants to be my friend?! I have never had an enemy do this kind of sick sh@t … Made me double check the locks on the doors at night but the monster was already in the house…

        • I get this. After $100k legal fees on my part alone for a three-year long court case of over 15 hearings, initiated by my abusive, adulterous husband who filed for divorce the day he made false allegations against me to prevent me from getting within 100 feet of our children, he said, ‘Now we can be friends.’

  • “I’m glad you feel that I didn’t go in search for someone else because I truly didn’t.” = I didn’t put in a ton of effort to find new dick, I just picked up the first thing that floated along.

    “When things get rough you get intense, it’s too much for me.” = It’s not my fault I cheated – it’s yours, because you weren’t happy with my cheating.

    “Confrontation is obviously hard for me.” = Cheating, on the other hand, was way easier. Breaking up would also have been hard for me, until I had my next host lined up.

    “In our relationship and marriage I didn’t feel like there was a spark, passion or that there will be.” = But I also didn’t feel like I should tell you that, because you were still of use to me.

    “I do NOT mean harm to you.” = I married you under false pretenses and discarded you once I got someone better, but I didn’t do it on purpose to hurt you. I did it to benefit myself, and just didn’t care if it hurt you.”

    Also, “I felt like I was a weak wife to you?” “Weak?” Last I checked, the divorce wasn’t because she wouldn’t help him move the fridge.

    • This is spot on “in our relationship and marriage, I didn’t feel like there was spark, passion or that there will be”! But I didn’t feel I should tell you that because you were still of use to me! Exactky, why talk about trying to save your marriage when you have no intention of staying.

    • Haha, fantastic! You nailed it for sure. She wanted to test the waters before jumping ship. I once said “it’s a shame it went this far”, but a friend advised, “no, lucky it didn’t go farther”.

  • Bob, so she was in a long term relationship with you, and was barely married to you for a year, and she has already moved in with someone else and gotten engaged? That’s awfully fast for a new relationship – especially after she’s just gotten out of a marriage. I know that the last thing on my mind when I got divorced (and even now over a year out) is another serious relationship – let alone thinking about marriage. You’re probably in the same boat.

    I think you’re right in that there’s a bit of emotional immaturity or shallowness there. Or at least not a whole lot of thought by her about her actions. She has more of a “live in the moment” type of thing going on there, which is something similar to all of our ex-spouses seemed to have (my ex’s behavior was a whole lot of “whatever makes me happy” in the moment, and not a whole lot of “what’s the real life consequences of this behavior”).

    I just came to the conclusion (as you may, or already have) that my ex wife was just a completely different person than me, with completely different values and a different outlook on life. Some people just never grow up, or at least never want to.

    • Yeh…. the term dodged a train wreck isn’t common. It seems apt here

    • Blindside, so true that these disordered cheaters never grow up. They are stuck in a continuous and entitled thought loop of “me” and “mine”.

      Just 10 months into our 34 marriage, X slept with my bridesmaid and best friend from high school while I was at work. I didn’t find out until 10 years into our marriage (DD1).

      Our son was 10 years old, we had a decade of what I thought was a happy marriage and he gave an Oscar worthy performance of sorry and “it will never happen again”.

      Meanwhile X,

      -Dispensed years of future promising.
      -Drained me psychologically and physically to collapse (DD3 and final DD was diagnosed with highly aggressive cancer I’m 2.5 years into fighting and happy to report winning).
      -Became more covert in hiding his duality it took 11 months of forensic expertise to discover what I’m certain is just a fraction of the depth of financial betrayal to support his decades of “finding himself”.
      -Maintained years of affairs, prostitute hook ups, massage parlor and on-line sex and as a champion cheater hid it. He is also a technology expert skilled at burying evidence. Expert “charming” liar he could convince/gaslight me of late meetings, project deadlines, out of town business meetings (“I’m working this hard for us”.)
      -Enjoyed the benefits of my keeping his beautiful storefront image of a devoted family man while I worked full time.
      -When I was hospitalized for my first cancer surgery, I was of no use to him; completely used up.
      -Re-wrote narrative of entire marriage that he wasn’t happy, he wasn’t surprised I got cancer as I was so negative and he deserved to be happy. The only people that bought his BS were his flying monkey narc family members, his married massage parlor whore AP and their new friends.

      Once the veil of who he truly is, was lifted and some months of gut wrenching, puddle volume crying, I’ve been 100% no contact.

      I also heeded fellow chump and CL advice, lawyered up and kicked his ass in divorce. I told everyone who cared to hear, the truth of his poor character, disordered thinking and abuse.

      While I’m still in cancer treatment, I am gratefully 6 months with no evidence of disease, enjoying a cheater free life and all the benefits of disentangling from crazy. Life really does get better.

      I’ve forgiven myself for staying 3.5 decades in an abusive relationship and I’m doing my best to move forward every day. Each day without cheater lies and drama is wonderful.

      • Freenow, you are truly an inspiration. Having been in a long term marriage that ended a year ago I understand how difficult it is to forgive yourself and move forward. To have to fight a battle with cancer at the same time is nothing short of miraculous. You are truly mighty, congratulations on your 6 months winning the battle. ????????

      • You are rocking it FreeNow! I especially love that you enacted consequences in the divorce, that is what I am hoping to do too. Still having trouble believing this is ‘who he is’, I just cannot wrap my head around it.

    • Yup. In 4 months’ time she had everything allllll figured out.

      But seriously, that’s exactly it: she’s impulsive and stubborn. Always has been. I feel relieved that I don’t have to deal with it anymore; there were so many situations that arose where we had to clean up the messes that she made. I suppose it was obvious years ago, but when you look at someone through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.

      And you’re right, she’s just completely different. Marriage clearly doesn’t mean the same thing to her as it does to me.

      I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss the security of being in a relationship. I’m an intimate sort of guy. That being said, I agree with you: I just don’t have it in me to invest in someone else just yet. It’s mind-boggling how some people can just jump from relationship to relationship, with no regrets. Perhaps that’s a sign of emotional maturity (or lack thereof), but who knows!

      • It’s a sign of how shallow their feelings are. As CL says, they are just not that deep. Makes it pretty easy to move on when you don’t have the ability to become that attached. They are so different from us chumps.

  • “Why isn’t life a Festival of ME?”
    -Every cheater

    “Why isn’t life a Festival of ME?”
    -Every politician

    “Why isn’t life a Festival of ME?“
    -Every preschooler


    • Haha. Yes. This reminds me of something the priest said recently at the church my DD is receiving communion…at the first parent meeting he said, “now is the time that our darling little ones are starting to change from being little sociopaths…” he said other wonderful and priestly things, but that had me howling.
      What you wrote is, sadly, often so true…oftener and oftener 😉 these days.

    • Yep, I just snort laughed…so glad I came back and read this after I was done with 2nd cup of coffee.

  • Bob, you have everything on your side: youth, health, decency and Chump Nation.
    She will always suck. But you will not always suffer because of it.
    I had become convinced, after many years of chumpdom and emotional abuse, that I was all of the things my ex said I was. It takes a while to unlearn it. Surround yourself with excellent people. It helps.

  • My ex said he had been uncomfortable in our relationship for a long time. I made the fatal mistake of asking how long. He said 5 years (we have been together 11years, married 8). Thankfully I had some wits about me at the time and I replied “Oh? I’ve been having issues with this relationship for 7 years. The look on his face was priceless!!

    That said, a lot of what this woman texted rings true to what my ex has said on multiple occasions. It still blows my mind on how they all spew the same garbage. And it completely pisses me off how they refuse to talk to us in person, hiding away like they were the people who were wronged and abused.

    • Yes. Part of how I grow and change and survive is by reading everyone’s posts and Tracy’s articles and getting HIT OVER THE HEAD that the stuff I thought was Cheaters is actually a ‘thing’!!!

    • Yes exactly, it’s like they all read the same damn handbook. Cheating for Dummies or something!

  • Bob, what it comes down to is this. Even if she was right and things were stale, stale is something fixable. Character deficiency isn’t.

    • 100% agree. But once they’ve directed attention to the AP, there’s no energy left for fixing what’s broken where they’re at currently (i.e., married to us).

      Also, why is it the CHUMP’s job to fix the “stale.” Oh, that’s right, because every fucking thing was our job in those shitty relationships. SO glad to be rid of XH!

    • Thanks for this. It took me awhile to get over her saying that, but finally something clicked and I was able to think “What stopped HER from making it exciting?” … Well, I suppose she did make it exciting in a way!

  • This whole thing smells like more truth is likely to trickle out over time. People may start sharing things now that you are divorced. She may have engaged in way more BS than you would have ever guessed.

    I only mention it because it might be good to be mentally prepared for it. It’s common, and it’s usually not talked about. If you aren’t ready for it, it could throw you for a loop if other happens.

    It also can be surprising to learn which people around you didn’t share important things before you got married.

    Just be ready, is all.

    • This is a great point. 10 months after the first DDay, which at first war with an ETA then when presented with proof of having taken her to a hotel in the middle the afternoon and being confronted they both admitted that they fucked each other but said she was the only one, another affair person came out of the woodwork which he denied also until she had evidence. Turns out his cheating was serial and it went away back in time to when we first met. Cheaters cheat because they can and that personality type (entitlement, no empathy, users) goes back to character formation days, which happens at ages 2-10 or thereabouts.

      Nothing to work with.

      Stale was just an excuse to blameshift.

      She sucks.

    • Yes. That one is HARD to hear. Tracy said that to me. To many of us . It’s tough. But it’s strewn across the path forward. Just be the kind true smart person you have always been, knowing you are going to have a great unimpeded life.

    • I think you’re right. At this point, nothing is surprising. I’ve already been told that she’s been posting pictures online of her kissing this guy, and the pictures were very clearly taken over the summer (I live in a very seasonal area). Had a feeling when she over-defended herself, “I just want you to know I NEVER touched him while you and I were together,” to which I responded, “I never questioned it, but now I do!”

      Truth be told, she had cheated on her previous boyfriend with this guy as well, so who knows how many times they’ve connected over our relationship. Sickening, but certainly possible.

  • It was fun while everything orbited around the specialness of her. Right up to the wedding. All eyes on her, her life, the bride and then just boring ole life. What, I’m a wife? Now I’m supposed to do wifely stuff? Bob is stable and can hold down the fort while I go chase the wild. Notice how they don’t let you go and they sneak around? You were of use. Then they get busted and some just know the jig is up and leave. You got super mighty and got the ‘Big D’ done quick while she was off chasing ass. New chumps take note of this!!! Once they figure out the new ass isn’t all that, they will make your life a living hell—get out quick!!

    Think of it like a 4th of July sparkler. It was sparkly, and fun, exciting twirling it around, it even gave a big spark at the end. But now it’s done. Time to pull a new one out of the box.

    What part did you play in all this? That’s the work to be done. I went to a divorce workshop a few weeks ago. Kind of a mistake after being on CL for a year. I went to one session and never went back. The speaker told the group to look at their role in the destruction of the marriage, the ole it takes two. I never went back. My part in all this was being attracted to a Cluster B. He was all about the sparkly and I lived vicariously through that. That’s on me, and continue to spackle and trust when I shouldn’t have. Go no contact. Fix the picker Bob!

    • You know that’s right. It just takes one to cheat! She’s like a child chasing bubbles in a field.

      Joke’s on her. I kicked her out and made her pay for the whole thing.

    • I was with X for 26 years, married 25. No signs of being a cheater when we met and married at 23. I personally feel like it is blameshifting when we focus on “fix the picker.” My X is a master con-artist and gets paid 7 figures to use those traits on behalf of his clients. It isn’t my fault in picking him. I don’t have a broken “picker” — whatever that is.

      Instead, I was ignorant about these personality types. I did not know what red flags to look for way back then. I have a better sense of it now.

      Just a thought. . . .

  • Bob, my husband told me almost the exact same thing…word for word. He wouldn’t have been able to live with himself had I changed for him. And the current me just wasn’t making him happy.

    The current me makes me happy though. And my kids happy. And the dog happy and the number of men who have asked me out in the past six months- they seem happy too.

    Cut your losses. Find someone who is authentic and stable. Fall in love again. Remarry (or not). Your ex wife is destined to a life of superficial relationships and mental instability. You’re not. Congratulations!

    • Jenny,
      Good for you!
      By the way, how did you get ‘a number of men’ to ask you out over the past six months? I can’t seem to get a date with anyone close to compatible who is not a drug addicted high school drop out. (I know some nice people who are drug addicted high school drop outs, but I’m not comfortable dating them.)

    • I’m no longer sick!
      I’m no longer afraid.
      I’m losing weight, sleeping better.
      The dog and cats are better.
      Even the PLANTS are thriving .
      Go figure.

      • My plants are doing better too! It’s like his negativity was killing everything in the home.

  • Chumps tend to take on all the blame Bob. Don’t do it! You didn’t make her cheat, that’s totally on her.
    Her pathetic apologies are only her reaction to you. She never fessed up and apologized for the royal fuck up. She said “I’m sorry”, yes! But there was always a qualifier that was you. And that Bob, IS horse shit!

    • Thank you kindly. She said “I’m sorry” many times with her mouth, but never said it with her heart. Then I realized the reason: she doesn’t have the required equipment.

      • The Worm used to apologize also. Then 2 seconds later give me an hour lecture about what I needed to change if we were going to stay together. We don’t need them Bob!
        They are losers. They can go sell their bologna someplace else! We rock!

        • Another one from the cheater’s playbook: being told what we need to change if this is going to work out.

          I’ve been told I need to get the chip off my shoulder, I need to be nice to her friends (i.e. the ones that knew about the affairs and probably even encouraged them…this includes her sister), my ridiculous feelings of not wanting to be intimate, etc. I love how they cheat but then we need to change.

  • “(“no-fault”, whatever the hell that means)” This had me in stitches!

    Anyway, Bob, you are what they call in the dating world a “catch”. Don’t underestimate your worth for a second. Find yourself a great person to share your life with, if you are so inclined. There’s lots of sucky people, but lots of great people too. Learn from this experience, (the lesson is avoid narcs) and put it behind you.

    • Oh by the way bob, I also received a self-serving word salad apology from my ex in which he completely failed to mention, let alone apologize for, the affair. He married her before the ink was dry on our divorce papers. Wish I didn’t have to deal with him all the time. Kids. Anyway I really enjoyed this UBT!

      • Thank you so much 🙂 it means a lot.

        These cheaters are just nuts. It’s incomprehensible how self-justified they are; as you said: self-serving.

        Hang in there! It sucks that you’re forced to be connected with him, but in time your kids will see what’s really going on (if they haven’t already)!

  • Bob, so sorry you are in need of our support, but you came to the right place. CL is right, you got yourself one of those gals addicted to attention and wedding gifts…its why she didnt leave 8 months ago, she was ready for her kibble-bonanza and wasnt going to miss it over something small like making sacred vows when she didnt mean them.

    And you are a decent enough person that your response to her betrayal is described as “intense”…you are a good guy…most of us here had a few genuine “bat shit crazy” response moments.

    The good news is that there is quite a market for fine men like you (once the gal confirms your story because the bad news is that folks generally assume the guy did something awful) I know since I married one of them 2 yrs ago.

    As much as I was glad that my new husband was single/annulled, financially solvent, emotionally healthy and the owner of a virgin mattress, I feel bad that he sat on his sofa alone for 12 years. He might still be there and still have a virgin mattress if my dad hadnt called him to tell him to take me out. (I dated him 30 years earlier and my dad liked him).

    So you will need some healing time and it will be annoying that women will be a little skeptical of your narrative (it is only true in about 20% of cases by my guess) but there are wonderful gals out there who will want to build an actual life with you and will be amazed at their good fortune finding a guy like you.

    • @unicornomore, I want to thank you for your response. You have no idea what it means to us chump guys. Being cheated on destroys our self-confidence and self-worth (I’m sure you ladies experience that too). Sometimes it is hard remembering we didn’t deserve this, and that we deserve better. I am hopeful I will someday meet someone who truly appreciates me they way you talk about your husband. I’m glad you two found each other. You give us hope and confidence!

      • I would be estatic to find a former male chump one day after he and I have both done the hard work of unchumping ourselves both physically and mentally. There have to be enough female cheaters to line up with the male cheaters (except my now ex has hooked up with a much younger dumsel in distress type that he spent months talking about how sorry he felt for her). It really does take a while to process the ‘trust that they suck’ motto and that this really has nothing to do with you.

        I realized my ex wasn’t the romantic type, he didn’t cook or grocery shop, didn’t clean the house, he quit doing any yard work, he did stuff with our kids but only stuff that brought on the kibbles for him. I did all the adulting and he did all the funning. And sadly, our sex life was all about him (I won’t go into the sordid details, but let’s just say a blow job is all he ever wanted after a few years except for his porn habit).

        One day when I find a real guy, I won’t know what to do with myself. I’m not a limelight kind of girl so having any reciprocal relationship with a genuine person would be fantastic! I’m really nervous about making another mistake with a narc.

        • I think we all are, twiceachump. I’m terrified my next relationship will be a repeat partly because this is what I know and what I think is normal for a relationship. This is where doing your research and fixing your picker is key. Be smart and trust your gut.

        • Twice a Chump, I can really relate to your sex life story. I fell for that, too, and I now realize that I need to ask for what I want. Not to say that we carry any blame, it’s hard to comprehend a truly self-centered partner when you’re in the middle of it, or to know right away when you’re being used. I just think that I was afraid to ask for anything in bed, but what was I afraid of? I have no idea!
          ‘Giving’ BJ’s is not a good sex life. Let’s all say what we enjoy, and make it fun and 50/50. Of course, this needs a good partner to work!

        • Male chump here. I found a former female chump and our relationship is FANTASTIC. It’s based on mutual respect and communication, and our sex life is the best I’ve ever experienced. It’s amazing what you can achieve together when both of you are able to communicate your needs and desires.

          My point is, there are millions of people out there who have gone through the same or similar experiences as ourselves, and who know the value of love, communication, honesty, integrity. You’ll find one when you’re ready, have no doubt about it.

          • Notamindreader,
            Glad you found a great partner post-cheater. I thought that I had found a great partner, a chump, who I thought had been my friend for years. Unfortunately, he didn’t truly love me and decided not communicate with me on important things like, ‘Are you interested in someone else? Is our relationship OK?’

            How can we be sure that we will find a decent partner? As someone who lectured on gerontology and as a late middle-aged mother, I can say that my stats and observations indicate that there are a lot more available women than available men in my age group and older and most men my age want to marry younger (10+ years younger). In my grandmother’s nursing home, there was one man–and 30 women. Odds are good for the rooster but not for the hens.

            • I don’t think we can ever be 100% certain. I do know that the level of communication I have with my girlfriend is much greater than I had in my marriage. It feels “right,” so I’m going to allow myself to trust.

              When I got back in the dating pool I noticed the same ratio you do. I actually did date a few who were 10 to 15 years my junior. (I’m 52) I quickly realized I had nothing in common with women so far removed from my age. I can’t be the only one out there who feels like that.

      • TFD, so glad to help ! I know all about destroyed confidence. I ask my husband if women followed him around the grocery store (I bet they did) as he is tall, handsome, pleasant and successful but he was oblivious to it all.

        He took the prohibition against dating coworkers and subordinates rather literally but in his personal life people didn’t introduce him to gals he was intellectual equals with so he kept holding out – for what, he didn’t know. We are the same age which is a huge plus in compatibility… literally went to 6th grade together. For Easter we’re going to Wittenberg, Germany and argue the Reformation with each other.

        So when you are ready, pay attention in the produce aisle … a wonderful age-peer woman may have followed you from condiments.

        • Haha, that’s a great image, picturing a woman following me around the grocery store.

      • It has turned into lore… Dad learned I was internet dating and he thought it was unseemly and thought “who could she date?” He went to his college alumni directory (part of the appeal was their shared alma mater) to see if that fellow from long ago was married. He found new hubs but no wife listed and bonus, he was not only local (this part is unreal) but our streets had the same name. Dad called the Colonel and the Colonel called me. I became the oldest military bride I ever met

  • Add two kids a longer marriage (shy of 4 .7 together) and a line up og guys immediately after her leaving and this is my situation. Exceot your ex sounds about 100 times more compassionate and empathetic towards you.
    I should submit her “apology” to the UBT . Like you i wanted to think it was sincere and she was human but reading it again yoy see The utter self serving crap it is.

    AlMost two years out of d-day. Ive filed and shes been served. And ignored the papers it seems. 15 days to respond and its going on 20! Not surprised she is is the ultimate avoider
    Better off man. It still stings i might only be 75% meh but i.probably have to interact with her more.
    Chin up!

    • Dagger, did you use an attorney to file? If so, ask them about default. If she was properly served and did not respond, you may be able to get a default judgment of divorce and only have to litigate custody and visitation issues. That might be a cost savings.

      And hey, if you’re at 75% meh when you’re only two years out from DDay, you’re doing great!!! Keep up the good work.

      • Yeah that’s the next step. Custody agreement is already long in the bag.
        And 5hsnls. Its a struggle and i wont lie some days that 75 is 25 but its getting better.
        Its just amazing the level of avoudence she has. Extreme even. I fimd most cheaters will at least aknowlege or petition for divorce. Even if they’re still blaming you they participate. It was same with the custody. I did it all she signed . Now of course theres issues with that but not my issue. She had her chance to air greivences. This is also the cheater who had zero intention of comming back but didnt feel we needed to dovorce…..maybe im not quit 75% yet haha

        • I wish we all had a dollar for every time we’ve hear the “they wanted the divorce but now wont finish it” … to the point its almost to be expected. It seems they all want to to get to a perfect point of non-accountability then stop.

          • Unicornomore yeah she actually said she didn’t see the point and only reasons were not wanting to change her last name and never intending on getting married again. Didnt even really get any hints of cake eating or kibbles. Not seeming to try to make me hold on . Just didn’t want to????

  • She was with you for seven years. And did the whole wedding. And seven months later she found herself but can’t tell you about it in person. Because she’s fukking whatshisname. And facing you in person is too intense.

    She’s looking to be entertained not be a partner to a marriage and a lifetime.
    She’s shallow using words to make herself look honorable. But she cheated on you and violated her commitment. Those words don’t say I’m wrong and I’m sorry. They say I’m justified.

    She took you for a ride but at least you’re out before kids and terrible finances.

    These kind are wastes of life and energy.

  • Bob
    Your fortunate you found out now. I know you don’t feel lucky but I found out after a 34 year marriage.

    She is a cheating narc who doesn’t deserve a man like you. Eventually she will do the same to her current victim. You will be fine & the pain your now feeling will subside.

    Stay strong! ????????

  • wow, that was full of patronizing superiority.
    “You’re good just the way you are, just not good enough for me.”

    This woman is completely void of self-reflection, but good at being condescending.

    This is complete arrogance under the guise of humility – Observable in many Jesus cheaters. The certainty of their superiority to lowly schleps, for whom god loves in all their sorry imperfection. They take a middle man approach to spirituality… “hey, I can negotiate what god wants for you, or what he thinks, because of course, I’ve Got that insiders knowledge.” These people completely miss the point of Christianity … to be humble is to be uncertain. Yet they are certain that their low estimate of your importance is rectified by believing that God will still love you with all your Flaws. They omit their bad behaviors and replace them with euphemisms like “Gods plan.” Yeah, I’m certain the Bible wasn’t written as a means to justify your own bad behavior through God.

    • Well there is God and then there is the god the psychos think they are. God is for all the little people who aren’t gods themselves.

  • This line goes in the Chump Lady Hall of Fame: “There at the bottom of the shallow pie plate of my soul was unhappiness.” Instant visual of my Grandma’s old 9 inch tin pie plate with the scratches from the cutting of countless pies. That’s about how deep my ex’s soul was (if he had one at all which is debatable). And yep, he always claimed his “unhappiness in the marriage” was the root of all his serial cheating. Got the sadz? Bang a stripper in the back of the family minivan. Instant joy, apparently.

    C’mon over to Meh, Bob. We only serve deep dish pie over here. 😉

    • lol … that line caught my attention too, but in a different way. Just as the golden retriever was distracted by the word “squirrel” … I found myself thinking “mmm …. pie!” like Homer Simpson!!!

  • Sorry that you are in this situation. ‘I was a weak wife.’ Reminds me of my boyfriend saying, ‘I’m a bad boyfriend,’ a couple months before he discarded me for the last time. Of course, I said, ‘No you’re not; you’re a great boyfriend.’ Little did I know that he was planning my discard but hadn’t gotten around to telling me, even if I asked him if everything was ok and if he had met somebody else. Instead of just saying, ‘I’m a bad boyfriend,’ why didn’t he DO something about it–talk to me (with or without a counselor), immediately break up with me, etc. These types don’t DO apologies or truly try to fix problems. They are about themselves. To them, we are just ‘collateral damage.’

    • Its more fun and easier to say i’m a bad boyfriend. That way they gave you a heads up. They are completely off the hook. They love doing this and it serves so many purposes in their rotten little minds.

      • Plus then they get to listen to you try and convince them how great they are. When someone tells me they’re “X-whatever” I assume they know themselves better than I do, and just believe them.

        • Thanks, Leaving and Lemonbirch,
          My ex-boyfriend, when I came over to pick up some of my things, told me that some of his former partners had called him a ‘jerk’ and an ‘a–hole.’ Again, I foolishly told him, ‘I would never call you those things. I don’t believe those things.’ Kibble. I am a gigantic kibble dispenser (as well as a chump). He then got romantic with me. He then told me that ‘it was scary being vulnerable’ and I replied that he could be vulnerable with me. What a waste of time. I was grasping at straws.

    • What is that about. I got the “sorry I have been such a bad husband” in my discard e-mail, but every word uttered after that has been how this is all my fault and how I am a truly awful wife. Screamed at me in rage, how I am the cause of all of his unhappiness and our children agee. Everyone we know agrees. So cruel.

      I think he was just wanting to slink away and threw an “it’s my fault, I was a bad husband” bone over in the corner of the yard in the moment to distract me, never meaning a word of it. It served him to say it for the moment. Apologies and platitudes about how “you are such a great person and I know you will find what you deserve” will be wiped away just as others have suggested here.

  • She sounds like a borderline, and I think that variety of narc is somewhat more difficult get out of one’s system. A garden variety narc’s “inner asshole” becomes clearly visible rather quickly, and makes them easier to leave. But a borderline’s “inner unhappiness” is legitimate and can seem fixable or at least create sympathy in a confused chump. Borderlines aren’t lying about that inner unhappiness … they truly are miserable people seeking happiness in totally inappropriate places. The key is to understand that they are by definition incapable of sustained happiness and you never had the ability to solve that for them. It is too bad and it is okay to feel some sympathy for them as you RUN AWAY AND SAVE YOURSELF!!!

  • Hi Bob,

    You said you’re 85% of the way to Meh. Wanna get to 100% faster than a Japanese bullet train?

    Go ZERO CONTACT! Block, delete, ignore, Return to Sender, shred, eliminate, burn, or whatever else you need to do to excise her and her self-agrandizing drivel from your life.

    Yes, you were summarily dismissed as Chief Kibble Dispenser, and you didn’t deserve that. But IMHO, this was the best possible outcome because you could’ve spent decades twisting yourself into a pretzel, fruitlessly trying to make it work.

    You seem like a sincere young man willing to go “all in”. I predict you’ll meet someone special and she’ll think you’re anything but stale! You’re the man that some woman is praying for… go forth and have yourself a terrific life!

  • Your EX wife reminds me of a woman I met as she was ending her 7th marriage. Not only would she brag about her history, but she’d laugh it off explaining, “I’m great with courtship, but not so good with commitment.” The fact that she could continue to find partners who thought she was special (even as she was cheating on their predecessor) just shocked me–but human stupidity and selfishness seems to know no bounds.

    Congratulations on your escape. You’ll be able to laugh about all this in a few decades when you hear that she’s on her 7th spouse.

  • “God makes a lot of stupid things. Wasps, blob fish, Congress…”

    That bit made me snort my coffee!!

  • I can smell the personality disorder wafting off that message right through my computer screen. The word salad she used is exactly the sort of babble my ex spouted; it’s meant to baffle the recipient’s brain with bullshit and leave them confused and feeling like somehow it must all be THEIR fault, if only they could figure out how. There’s no meaning to it beyond that. Love the way she turned into a Jesus cheater at the end. That also reminded me of my ex.

    Bob, thank God you got away from that disordered woman before having children with her. And a marriage that short shouldn’t involve alimony or support $$, so you are thankfully free to never have any form of contact with that scum bucket woman again.

  • Stale and uneventful. To me she’s saying reliable… normal… it’s like bread/pancakes/rice/all the starches of life. These items are there to be jazzed. Marriage as an institution isn’t going to be the party. It’s what you ducking bring to it. The whip cream. The pizazz. The plans. The investment of caring in the partners success. Pour some syrup and get over the idea that a balanced check book and a cuddle on the couch is anything but amazing.

    • Too right Creativerational! I will take uneventful [normal] any day of the week. I don’t even need it jazzed up. At this point in my life I crave normal, safe, reliable starches over sugary treats that leave you feeling jittery, on edge and ultimately unsatisfied.

    • Mine said, “we’re just room mates.” That was news to me. I guess that was how he really felt though. Room mates that told each other I love you. Kissed good-bye in the morning. Held hands while walking. Called each other Sweetie. Hell, the one time I saw him after he left, he walked in squeezed my arm and called me sweetie. I wanted to belt him.

  • Mark Twain is reputed to have once said “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes.”

    It’s amazing reading here and elsewhere how many stories are so very similar. Sadly we don’t know that until we’re neck deep in horse pucky.

    In my case it was 27 years, not 7. Mme YogaPants though never had any complaints to me or any of her friends about me. She did tell me twice that she wanted to explain it to me but couldn’t find the words. I presume that she couldn’t find the words that absolved her of guilt. She does lie to others though, including her own attorney claiming that she only hooked up with Senor Moneybags “after” she had left me. Pretty much everyone knows that’s not the case though. I was complicit and largely silent for quite a long time though after I knew which I now regret. Her “secret” was outed largely by her own actions though so even that she can’t blame me for.

    She did give me the same sort of word salad though “I’m not good enough for you”, “You should find someone better than me” etc etc. We talked twice after she left. Once when she and OM had broken up and she was checking to see if I was still on the hook (I was – but barely). I mentioned that I was thinking of dating. Her response? “I wouldn’t blame you” as if it was another kick when she was down. The second time was soon after that when I found out that she had patched things up and called her and demanded that she tell me if she was determined to be with him and not me. All I got were sniffles.

    On a positive note – as if any part of this can be positive – in our cases she was running “towards” something else and not “away” from us. That knowledge has helped my feelings of self-worth. It sounds Bob like you are getting some positive reinforcement as well.

    She did finally initiate the settlement and divorce process herself which I still think was a good idea as pretty much nowhere was she able to paint me as the villain. I did sad-sausage a fair bit through the process which didn’t require a lot of acting. As far as I know she’s living in somewhat of a limbo herself right now where after more than 2 years from starting her affair things have been pretty cool for quite a long time. I do worry about her knocking on my door which I still think is a risk until one of us forms a new permanent relationship.

    Keep your chin up Bob and keep moving forward.


  • ‘There at the bottom of the shallow pie plate of my soul was unhappiness.
    Who knew?’
    LOL! I love CL in the morning.
    This image describes a certain type of person, and they like it that way! Inwardly focused, and finding not much.
    I think this letter writer thinks she’s some kind of sage, but nope , just selfish and finger-pointing.
    I’d rather be a Chump, than be her! Bob, at least you know what you don’t want in a woman now.

  • I fully understand where you’re coming from Bob. I’m about 6 months out from DDay and in the middle of the divorce. I’m not at 85% yet, more like 50% because I continue to ruminate on things he had told me when he “put me on notice” that October day. I know, disgusting, right? Anyway, from DDay until I busted him for cheating 6 weeks ago, I was busy performing the pick me dance. And, during that time when I could get him to communicate with me about what I’d done wrong, here is a smattering of what he said: “I’ve been unhappy for the last year, I’ve been unhappy for the last 8 months, I’ve been unhappy for 16 months, 5 years, 15 years (you get the point). You didn’t “see” me, I don’t love you the same, you were too busy taking care of your family, you are a better mom than partner to me, you always said there is just a lot going on, you were stressed about your new job.” Etc, etc. I’ve searched my soul, and there’s a good chance you’ve done the same to find if there is an ounce of truth in the words from your ex. But, the reality is not only did his story change with the breeze, but he took very normal issues in marriage…er, normal issues because we happen to be human, and make them somehow evil, convenient, ridiculous, ever-changing, excuses for screwing around. It’s nonsense, and why the UBT is so damn funny. Your ex’s gibberish is truly what is stale. You seem to be doing great moving forward, keep it up!

    • If they can’t have their asses kissed, or attention paid to them 24/7 they become bored. So damn childish and creepy! Subhumans. Too bad they are such wonderful actors at the start.

    • You just described my experience and the very things my ex implied/said to a T. It never ceases to amaze me that they really are all the same. Wow!

      The scary thing is that us chumps and our reactions to our cheaters have so much in common as well. That’s ok, though, I would rather be just like every other chump than have anything in common with our cheaters.

    • It is absolute nonsense. I grilled my x. And grilled his ass some more…i knew it was all bull. He finally admitted he had been happy. He told me what he meant was *now* he is even happier. There is a big damn difference. And no, his dumb ass isn’t really happy now. More like high on life. For the moment anyway.

  • Bab her words are meaningless. Her actions however suck. NC will help you to move on to a better life at warp speed especially if she is tempted to circle back for more kibble later .congrats on the positive changes you have already made they sound like you are well on your way already.

  • Often we put our deep fears and beliefs into the parentheses. So consider this: “(She couldn’t wait to get out… I’m just that terrible I guess!)” That not an afterthought. That’s the thought or fear or belief that shows you really don’t get, yet, that she sucks. So let’s not look at it in terms of how you experienced this, Bob, as a person who entered marriage committed to living up to your promises, but rather in terms of what your XW does and what that tells us about her.

    You were with her 7 years, 2 of which were your engagement period. She started cheating (so far as you know) 7 months into the 1st year of marriage. So you were together about 8 years, at least one of which she was checked out and having an affair.

    When you say you were “terrible” and an “insane, yet boring asshole, incapable of romance.” from her perspective, you are looking through the lens of a disordered person. She may well see you that way, but that viewpoint is an artifact of how she does relationship: in order to have an affair, she has to devalue you. Think about it. You loved her. You valued her (and sadly, still do, or you wouldn’t be so ravaged about how she finds you “boring…incapable of romance.” And because you value(d) her, you didn’t cheat, because you wouldn’t want to spoil or end the marriage.

    Cheating jackasses don’t think that way. She got you through the wedding and then you became a old kibble source. So she got herself some shiny new cheater kibbles. That will look good until it doesn’t. You don’t have to diagnose her as narcissistic or sociopathic or whatever. I don’t think I’ve ever known anyone who was cheating 7 months into a new marriage. She’s a special one. Instead of looking through her eyes and wondering what’s wrong with you, look through your eyes: what’s wrong with a woman who could be in an 8 year relationship and a new marriage and then throw it away? Why isn’t she capable of decent behavior? Of kindness? Of fidelity?

    Your part in this is to fix your picker, to figure out why you thought she was a person to spend a lifetime with.

    • LAJ,
      You do know someone whose spouse cheated that early on–Mine probably cheated on me from the moment he met me. He cheated on me during our engagement and during our marriage.

  • I know it doesn’t feel this way, Bob, but yeah, you dodged a bullet. My own cheater also started when we had been married about seven months, but I didn’t catch her for years (and several more AP). I also got the “I’m-now-transcendent-and-awesome-in-the-Eat/pray/love-phase-but-you-still-suck” speech.
    The AP/fiance will eventually find out he got the worse end of the deal.

  • Bob,

    So very sorry that this happened to you and you were conned by a manipulative, narcissistic-acting, unfeeling, uncaring, adulteress. This is all on her. You are not “stale.” Never were, never will be. Humans, of which you are one, are dynamic, interesting, multi-dimensional, ever changing, ever growing, ever evolving. You seem like a kind, caring, empathetic, compassionate man. “Your stock will trade high,” as Tracy likes to put it, which means that a lot of wonderful women would love to be be your reciprocal, devoted, monogamous partner in life.

    This request for the UBT is understandable, and you are only 6 months out from Dday and have already accomplished way more than most chumps (way to go!, I’m impressed!) but it is untangling the skein. Trust she sucks rotten stinky hairy donkey balls. She’s a crazy monkey and she’s not in your circus, hell, you don’t even own or run or work for a circus: not your problem.

    Hit the reset button and focus on this get a life thing. You will be great — you’re going to have a wonderful, love-filled, passion-filled life. You get to fall in love again. You get to discover all the wonderful things about that future wife of yours. You get to (possibly) know the wonderful life changing experience of parenthood, with a partner by your side who is all in it, mentally healthy, has integrity and class. What a lucky man you are!

    Huge hugs and keep posting her in the forum for support as you heal from this narcissistic abuse. We’ll be here for you. And as you heal, don’t forget to help those chumpmen that are newbies — they are facing dark scary days and they need your support. That will help you heal too. You’ve got this.

  • Bob,

    Bro. She sounds like a real low-rent hooker. I mean, she’s taking it up the ass for room and board. I guarantee you I couldn’t get that deal even when I was a sexy 31-year old. And she’s dumb as fuck too. What kind of a human agrees to be a professional cumdumpster by providing sexual favors rather than sign a lease? A prostitute, Bob. Your ex wife is a prostitute. So is mine, dude. You dodged a bullet.

    I haven’t read the other comments yet, but I imagine they contain some variation on: “you’re lucky you didn’t have kids with her.” That sentiment didn’t ring true for me two years ago at D-day, and it does even less so now. Your heart is broken. Comparing your suffering to theirs in some kind of pain Olympics is not helpful. The long and the short is this: you loved her with your whole being. You trusted her with your most intimate secrets and exposed the most vulnerable parts of yourself to her. And she betrayed you. She’s scared to tell you to your face because she’s afraid you’d kill her. Sure you’re furious and you’ve thought of killing her, but you never would. But she knows she fucked up. She knows you hate her. She’s done this before and has a string of men who fucking hate the fuck out of her. She told every little secret y’all shared to that other dude in exchange for a place to live. And then she ate a big load of his jizz. Fuck. That. Bitch.

    Glad you are here, Bob. Welcome to the Club Nobody wants to Join. It’s better without a cheater. And now you needn’t suffer another relationship with a cheater if you learn as much as you can from the collective wisdom here. Chump Nation has seen it all. We’ve got your back – which is good because she stuck a knife in it.

    • Man. That was the UBT on steroids.
      But I liked the shock to the face straight talk. I’ll read it again when I catch my breath.

      • I love y’all. So feeling that Chump Nation love today!!! ????❤️????

    • #truth.bomb.

      Every man chump needs to read this & believe it.

      Doubtless-you should write a female version as well.

      I realize the frank talk might be abrasive to some but I believe it is necessary in getting through the fog quickly & getting to the angry fire that will fuel chumps into action.

      • I don’t listen to podcasts as much as I used to when I had a long-ass commute, but I ran across this: “The Lonely American Man – Hidden Brain” Toxic masculinity is poison for men.

        After Match Girl left I was beset with crushing loneliness. She was very good at triangulating everybody out of my life. It’s difficult enough for guys to be friends with other guys, but MG and I had moved so many times there was nobody left in my circle of close friends. I moved again this year because the city just had so many bad memories. Now in my new town I am slowly branching out and trying to make new friends.

        Guys talk to other guys differently when women aren’t around (shocker I know). So, I write my Chump Lady posts to try to connect with the few guys around here. I get value out of each and every post I read, but I always make a point to really focus on the guys’. I write in the way I might if I were to really open up to a guy. But as a straight guy it’d likely be weird if I did really open up like I want to to another man. So I write here. And I cuss – a lot. Because it feels good; because she wounded me. Because I didn’t die, but I wasn’t sure I wouldn’t there for a while.

        In the past I’d talk to my lovers like I write here. But that’s over for sure. Any woman I am fucking in the future won’t get the real me. I am probably permanently broken thanks to being chumped. I have no faith that the next woman I fall in love with won’t cheat on me. So I’ll keep my heart safe. And I’ll share my feelings here. Because when y’all give me positive feedback I know it is helping. That heals us both.

        • Doubtless – I want to say something like “Have hope! Other chumps have found good partners!” or something along those lines but I can’t. I too, just cannot imagine trusting again. Can’t even picture what that would look or feel like. I’d be interested to hear from Tracy how she knew she could trust her fella. Tracy?

          Let me say this though, I think I’ve turned a corner, or at least I’m peeking around the wall. A couple of weeks ago I realized it actually felt good to be single. It felt good to say “no” to a date and then after the pity ploys and pressuring came rolling in, it felt good to say “Hell, no. Go away.” The old me would have not wanted to hurt his feelings or would have thought I should at least give him a chance. The new me? “Why the hell do I have to do that?” Later I found that he is a total narc asshole and am so glad I avoided even a second more of my life spent on those jerks.

          It feels good not walking on eggshells. It feels good to not be baffled by the man-child that was my husband. It feels good to watch TV without running commentary and critique about how stupid everyone else is. In general, it just feels so much better.

          Last night I was with a group of women who were complaining complaining complaining and putting down so many others for causing problems and being stupid. The arrogance in the air was thick. I left. Didn’t make a fuss but my life is too short for that shit. Maybe they were having a bad night, maybe that’s who they are, who knows. All I know is I was starting to feel the old familiar yuck creep in and I don’t need it. I’m not a pollyanna who needs everything to be sunshine and roses, but I don’t like being around people who think they are experts on everything and everyone else is an idiot. I lived with that shit for 13 years.

          I am happier than I’ve been in a long time. I’m cutting out the crappy people or crappy times as much as I can. I am not wanting a relationship, and if people think that’s weird, fuck ’em.

          Just want to say you’re not alone friend. Live your life and dodge the fuckers. I think that may be the best we can do right now.

          Here’s to a peaceful weekend for chumps!

        • Thanks, Doubtless. I like to listen to podcasts (including the Hidden Brain) during my evening commutes. So I just added this episode and will start listening this afternoon.

          Thank you for your honest voice. I actually feel more comfortable speaking to women about my situation because they seem to get it more (even if they haven’t been through it). I also feel they are more honest about who my wife really is and what her actions are saying. Guys usually just say something along the lines of get out, I couldn’t forgive that, etc. Women are better analyzers of what is truly going on (watch her actions not her words). But it is still different from speaking with other guys. Since this all started, I’ve become less masculine in terms of stuffing my feelings down. Previously I didn’t like when people saw me cry. Now I don’t care. If you don’t like it, you can walk away. I’m not sure how my guy friends will react to that, but that’s their problem, not mine.

          I see my future the opposite of your last paragraph. I’m actually hoping that after all of this, all of my relationships get the real me. One positive outcome/growth would be that I now voice my feelings and opinions instead of walking on eggshells or just being agreeable. I’m not one to ruffle feathers, but why not? I’m tired of bending over backwards for others.

          Keep the honest talk coming!

    • #lovebarnacle is my new favorite #hashtag

      Me Too!!!

      I can’t wait to see the cartoon for it!

  • I’m sorry Bob. Don’t be her friend. That’s what she wants, for you to believe you’re both meant to be best friends (and not spouses) so that when the AP is no longer giving her the attention that she wants, she can call you up and sob on your shoulder because you’re still her best friend. Too bad she didn’t think to tell you about it beforehand. If you let her call you when she’s done with this guy, you’ll be right back in the same boat as now. Have respect for yourself, Bob. Make sure to write down a list of all of the reasons she’s not worth your time and keep them handy for whenever you doubt yourself. Also keep the UBT translation handy. I had to do so with my own UBT missive, and read it regularly before I finally realized that I was married to a loser. I’m so glad you’re divorced from this narcissist. Read books on Narcissistic Personality Disorder and setting boundaries. She’ll be back, but you don’t need the self-centered adulterer in your life anymore. Block her calls and emails, and if she contacts you from a different number, tell her you moved on and do not want to hear from her anymore. That’s it. No other explanation is necessary and then block her new number. Believe us. You deserve better!

    • Amazon Chump’s prediction played out in my life. I ‘won’ my ex-boyfriend back when he realized that the grass wasn’t greener on the other side of the fence after a few months, a few months after first discard (the women he pursued did not want to date him). Round two with him was the same in some ways–and worse in others. When self-serving, opportunistic people realize that you will put up with garbage, they will take advantage.

      • Absolutely. Which is why it’s so important to be here and read and study and learn and wake up.

  • Thanks for this post and a reminder about the UBT. My ex is a sweet-talker from way back and can make me feel like he really does CARE about me, even though he can’t stay married to me, because, you know, he missed out on a lot by being married.

    It’s all self-serving speak designed to make him look good to the kids and his mom and everyone else and make me feel like I lost the best thing ever.

    Ha! It’s taking awhile, but I’m beginning to understand that it was always all about him and never a real, honest, intimate relationship. Sigh.


  • Bob, anyone who (at 6 months out) can think this thought:

    “As a rational person, I’m trying to assign a rational behavior to an irrational person. It’s simply not possible. But I digress.”

    … is going to be just fine. They aren’t rational. Hold on to this thought, as it’ll help carry you through any bumpy patches yet to come.

  • “There at the bottom of the shallow pie plate of my soul was unhappiness”.
    A million, zillion, catillion times yes.This is my ex husband. This shall be what I whisper to myself as he complains about life, the universe and everyone during child exchanges. He is Mr Shallow Pie Plate to me now. Thank you.

  • Truer words were never written, JC. All of this, and I am just a hateful bitch now because I refuse to be “happy” for their shmoopie true love, yet remain his “best friend”. Barf.

  • Hi Everyone,

    First off, let me apologize for my delayed response. I was in my new hire orientation today, and had very little access to the ‘net. That being said…

    Thank you all so so SO much for your support.

    Tracy, you absolutely nailed it. Admittedly, I took a peek at the article during my orientation and had to stop reading because I found it difficult to stifle my laughter! I sent this off to my mom as well and she got a kick out of it! So many great lines that I will no doubt be quoting for quite awhile (poofy dresses, blob fish and the several centimeters of depth, to name just a few). You’re absolutely right: be careful what you wish for. I wished for horse shit, and my ex certainly delivered.

    Thankfully I’m no longer swayed by her or her bullshit. Since our divorce has finalized, I have since blocked her on all media. She “checked in” with me a few times around Christmas to see if I was doing OK. She received no response from me. The way I described it to a friend at work is that not only has the door behind me shut, but I’ve built a brick wall, and I invite her to bang her head on it from time to time.

    After she left, but before I figured out her affair, she had made a request: “Just please don’t trash my name and make me out to be an asshole.” I don’t need to say anything, she’s doing a great job of that herself. Anyone with a brain can clearly see what really happened. It’s as if I jumped off the Titanic, and now I’m just watching the thing go down. The water’s a bit cold, but I’m glad I’m not on that boat anymore.

    Thanks again everyone. I’m absolutely moved.

    Warmest Regards,

    • Telling the truth isnt ‘name bashing’. Its telling the truth. Funny they see nothing wrong with what they u til.others may hear about it. If its ‘no big deal’ why care who knows right? This was all for the best especially for them afyer all . They escaped a horrible life with a horrible person, why not scream it from the rooftops?

  • Bob you are an absolute doll. I know you will find your equal and that makes me so happy for you!

  • Bob, I seriously could have written this myself about the Lizard King and his ho-worker. You are so much better off and I know that in time you will find someone deserving of you. Way to be mighty!

  • You have to accept that this person you married was a liar.
    They lie about everything even when they don’t need to.
    It’s second nature to them.
    It’s their default mode.
    You don’t need to waste time trying to figure out why they lied. You just have to accept that they did/do and that that is what they are.
    My XH ( hurray, divorce came through 8 weeks ago????) lied about everything. Looking back over 24 years of marriage I can now pinpoint so many lies that never made sense at the time but now slot into place.
    I’ve stopped trying to work myself up in circles about how/ what/why he lied. I’ve accepted he is a liar. Once you get to that point and your NC is fully in place it’s much easier to get on with life.
    Most days I don’t even remember he exists! It’s totally liberating being free of a narcissist.

    • Ally,
      Regarding the lying, it’s amazing to me how many people indicate that lying, even chronic lying, is acceptable. A co-worker of mine told me, ‘Everyone lies’ and ‘People make mistakes.’ I told him that a lie is intentional–and thus NOT a mistake. A psychologist relative of mine indicated that people are prone to lie when they break up and seemed to excuse the lying of my (ex-boyfriend) around that time. Although this relative is very smart, I don’t agree with her, integrity (honesty) is what you do while under duress. Heck, my (ex-boyfriend) wasn’t even under duress the times he lied to me. I gave him every opportunity to tell the truth without censure! He still chose to lie.

      • Agreed. Let’s stop making excuses for liars. I remember how my XH wouldn’t get upset when learning about someone lying. It would make me bananas and rattle me, but I think he thought, “everyone does it” and probably was puzzled why it upset me so much.

  • Hi, Bob. Two things really struck me about your letter. Her, “Ooh, sparkly!” attitude to men. The other is your searching for meaning in her text. What I get from it is she’ll circle back around & try to play off the “nice” things she said about you after her future relationship failures hoping you’ll clean up the mess until she, “ooh, sparkly,” again. Something I’ve found very useful is to read about narcissism. I learned here that I have a long history of narcs in my life starting with my father. It has helped me move on & find closure to untangle the skein by defining past relationships & seeing them for what they were & how sick they were. I went no contact before I knew what it was & before I found Chump Nation. I used to kind of hope he’d circle back around so I could tell him off, but now, I hope he doesn’t, & so far, after 7 years he hasn’t. I dodged a bullet. I thought I’d won the “pain Olympics,” as Chump Lady calls it, but being here, I’ve learned how relatively easy I’ve had it. Time takes time. Best wishes, & welcome.

  • It’s really hard for all of us to go from being in a relationship and it’s lofestyle and what we THOUGHT was happening … to what was REALLY up… to the shock of disengaging and their mask REALLY coming off to show their true selves… to his harmed we were by them… to struggling in pain as we recovered… to , as Tracu likes to say, turning and putting ALL our thoughts and efforts and energy every single time to building our new life. She says we can learn to catch ourselves EACH time we start to obsess or lament , and grow strong refocusing on what we can do this minute toward our new clear honest life. Slowly we learn to appreciate that more than harmful sicko togetherness with a lying deceptive intentionally harmful Cheater.

  • Cheeze Louize, Bob. Can’t quite believe I read this post.

    No Contact.

    Ever again.

  • Hey Bob,
    You will probably want to check out the “red pill” movement. They can give you some tips on how to recognize Bible-carrying, airy-fairy, narcissistic female cheaters like this one. They will teach you how to cut through the BS a lot of women can give so you can find a nice woman. (I am a woman and I respect much of what red pillers have to say.)

    One thing I hate is when (hypocrite) Christians cheat and then use the word God is any context. Any real Christian would know that cheating goes against the 10 Commandments.

    “10 Commandments, wuh…??” says the bleary-eyed (hypocrite) Christian cheater. The cheater continues, “Someone in the lobby-thingy just told me all I had to do was buy a Jesus ticket so I would not go to hell. I bought the Jesus ticket so don’t look at me like I am going to hell, you sinner!” And the cheater congratulates themselves for hell-proofing themselves so that they can continue cheating. Note to Christians: there is no such thing as the Jesus Ticket. You have to LIVE the way the Bible tells you to live.

    I do not go to church often, but I sure as heck live by Judeo-Christian values. Always. It’s the right thing to do. I follow the 10 commandments even when I have had a crappy week/month/year. And I don’t blame others for my crappy week/month/year. Most of all, when the going gets tough, I do NOT cheat on my spouse. No matter what. Ever.

    I was cheated on. It was the most horrendous experience I ever went through, especially because the guy who cheated on me was a sociopath. (I had never even heard the word or met someone like that until him. I just did not know such a person existed. I had no context for such a person and therefore I did not even know there were red flags to look for.)

    I asked him flat out if there was another woman he had been seeing or having a relationship with. He grabbed the Bible and roared that he was not that kind of person and then he roared that with the Bible as his witness, that there was not another woman and he was not cheating. News flash: Bibles don’t talk so they can’t really be a witness.

    As you can guess, he was cheating. When I was not home, he probably cheated all over my countertops, on top of the washing machine, of course in our bed, probably in the shower, and on the couch and on the futon, and probably even on the fireplace mantle and possibly even suspended in mid-air over the kitty litter box. (Poor kitty– that just adds a new dimension to what cats like Grumpy Cat must have seen to make their faces so grumpy). But, I betcha he had that Bible in one hand the whole time to serve as the non-talking witness (in case he needed said witness.)

    We owned a house together and he forced me out specifically by becoming extremely, physically violent. (This was someone who had never been violent. He just knew violence was one of my deal breakers.) He knew I would not leave– that he would be asked to leave– and the other woman really, really wanted to move in because she was a mooch. And also because she too was a sociopath. She got a real kick out of destroying another woman’s life. It was her free, Friday night entertainment.

    There is no logic to cheaters and what they do. After they cheat, they will tell themselves the biggest and baddest lies to make themselves feel as if the loyal spouse drove them to cheat. If you listen to them when they are in this mind state, they will obliterate your self-esteem even if they think they are trying to be nice and let you down easy.

    Note to cheaters: there is no letting a loyal spouse down easy when you are f***ing someone else in the marital bed. So, just don’t. Just don’t talk. Let your betrayed spouse have the house, have the assets, have the kids, and have child support. Leave quietly with the clothes on your back, cheaters. Because it is the very LEAST you can do after destroying someone’s life, self-esteem, and trust and then breaking their heart on top of it.

    But no, most cheaters will not only deny to the death that they are cheaters, they will feel entitled to everything. They want the Chump to leave with the clothes on their back. After all, the Chump made them cheat. How dare the Chump do such a LOW THING as drive them to cheat!! Chumps are so terrible because they make others (at gun point) screw another person in their bed. Those Chumps. They just can’t stop driving innocent people to cheat. Chumps are the problem, I tell you! (Says the cheater.)

    I work with a lot of cheaters and their thinking is flawed. Just don’t listen to a cheater. They screwed someone else and are fully prepared to screw with your head.

    Best to you, Bob. You did not deserve it and I have no doubt you will find someone better than your ex. It’s easy to find someone when you realize the person you were with was a gutter troll. All you need to do is look up.


  • Bob,

    Take it from someone who had 30 years in that relationship, 20 plus of those married with children. Be very happy you found this out early and as wonderful as children are… without children with her. It’s her…not you. People that say these things and refuse to take blame or somehow take blame but in a passive aggressive way absolutely never change. Since you have no children together you have zero ties/bonding to deal with in the future. It is way, way, way more difficult to keep moving forward and to get that person completely out of your life when D-Day happens with small children and you have basically 20 years to deal with them before you get a reprieve. And the quote, “MAINTAIN MY SHRINE AND HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME!”… don’t go there either and keep her on that pedestal. I made this mistake and kept my ex spouse’s pedestal/shrine going for 10 years before I completely realized what it all meant… and by it I mean me, my marriage, my family. Read all you can get your hands on concerning this topic and you’ll see it is a script… the exact same script for all of us.

    • Yes kept the stbxh image as stain free as possible.
      Too many years.

      You escaped and she cemented it with that expose of herself.
      Carry on in yo funky badass ripped button down wearing self.

  • Bob,

    they are empty inside and you are lucky that she did not waste any more of your life looking for ‘something’ to fill her up. It doesn’t feel like it now, but you have just escaped a black hole of avoidance, passive aggression and selfishness.

    There are a lot of really good, loyal people out there. Just keep focusing on yourself, change what you need to change, and fix your picker.

  • How well I know…this. Fucktard X’s affair “just happened” too. Apparently spending hours at the gym and at “work” and at racquetball tournaments (and away from your family) helps you to prioritize your life’s values. Funny how living 1000 miles apart could not separate those true lovers and their “happily ever after.” Once AP had her talons in, I could see how futile it was to save the marriage. So, when X asked me for a divorce out of the blue, I immediately had a “lightbulb” moment. I knew he was cheating, had been for a while (sketchy behavior and financial decisions) and that his partner had threatened to tell. Best thing I ever did was walk away from that crap man and the farce that was our marriage. Days, weeks, and months later Mr. Happy had many reasons our marriage failed (all too common and in the Cheater Playbook), none of it the truth. Cheater very deliberately made many choices to blow up our life together, and it all came down to selfish ones.

  • Bob,

    Lots of good advice above. Here’s what stood out for me.

    “I just do not feel that our personalities mesh as well as spouses as they do as best friends.”

    Sorry if this seems crass, but she friend zoned you after you two were married. The proper way to friend zone someone is before you start getting serious, not after you get married.

    If it’s any comfort, next guy will probably get the same treatment, although it might take her a couple of years to go there. But even if not, do you want to be married to her, knowing what you know now?

    Move on. No kids, you’re young, plenty of time to get it right and more knowledge about how someone can be wrong.

    Hugs. Strength. Peace.

  • She does a lot of dancing and side stepping around the fact she is a liar and cheater all in an attempt to justify her bad behavior. However, you, my good man, still have your integrity and self respect in tact. Her, not so much. I refer to this quote often: Your true character is revealed by the clarity of your convictions, the choices you make, and the promises you keep. Hold strongly to your principles and refuse to follow the currents of convenience. What you say and do defines who you are, and WHO YOU ARE …. YOU ARE FOREVER.

  • As Tracy likes to remind us, of it was ok enough to do, it’s ok enough to talk about.

  • Bob you sound insightful and mature. You’ve shouldered this pain and grown because of it. You have a great life ahead of you whether you’re single or partnered. Just keep being you and letting your light shine. I am a second wife who snagged an amazing husband who became an incredible father after some unhappy dingbat was unfaithful and walked out on their short lived marriage. She was a giant dummy to give him up but her loss has been my gain for 20 years. Have a wonderful life and don’t let that self absorbed child darken your door again.

  • Hi Bob

    It sounds like one of two things happened here:

    1. She told herself she was never attracted to you to start with, in order to rationalize and justify what she did, so she would feel less guilty.
    2. She really, truly was not very attracted to you at all, BUT you’re a great guy. So, she spent years convincing herself she was, and trying to talk herself into it, and leading you up the garden path, until finally she got to the point where she couldn’t lie to herself anymore (but she could still lie to you!).
    Regardless, if it’s #1 or #2, or a bit of both, she severely lacks the ability to be honest, she’s disgustingly cowardly, and she has ZERO self awareness!! Ewww! Bob, she’s a caterpillar, and you’re a butterfly, nothing you can do about that.
    PS. Chump Lady is great for speeding us along to Clarity, but at the end of the day, the heart has it’s own time frame that you can’t rush. So take it easy on yourself, Bob!

  • Wow. Reminds me of a quote from Proust (I think, and pardon my paraphrasing)
    “When two people part, it is the one who is no longer in love who says all the pretty words.” Or something like that. It’s bs but in her mind she might think she’s being kind. Good luck with that other 25% Bro

  • >
    %d bloggers like this: