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Dear Chump Lady, Why does the OW want to meet me?

Hi Chump Lady,

I wonder if I could get your take on something that’s bugging me. I am just over a year out from D-Day. My husband had been home a few months from an overseas Army assignment, and I discovered the REAL reason he wanted a divorce had less to do with falling out of love with me, as he claimed, and more to do with the Singaporean whore he was banging while he lived over there — now his new wife.

Here’s my problem: he told me all about this woman over the year he was away, describing her as a platonic friend. Just a nice, super friendly girl. She saw my picture at his apartment and said how pretty I was. When I went out to visit him for our 10th wedding anniversary, she wanted to pick me up at the airport for him and finally get to meet me, (which didn’t come to pass, thank god). Why in the world was she so friendly and even volunteering to meet me? She was definitely having sex with him at the time — I unfortunately found date-stamped, photographic proof. This question honestly keeps me up at night. It seems pretty heinous to try to meet and befriend the woman whose life you are destroying.

Also, during that affair year, she friended me on Facebook! I realize in retrospect that I was probably not privy to all the travel and kiss face pics with my ex that were shared. I still find it super creepy and puzzling though. What the hell?

Liz C.

Dear Liz,

Scoot over on the chump bench here. You’re in good company. I recently answered a letter from a chump whose OW sent her a brownie plate for her divorce care group. In fact, I experienced the Trojan Other Woman phenomenon myself. One of my ex’s parade of fuckbuddies came to our wedding and I paid her bar tab. She also gave us rides to the airport and watched the dog. So, what can I tell you? Sharks gotta swim, bats gotta fly, some bitches be crazy.

Please don’t lose sleep over this. That’s untangling the skein of fuckupedness. Yes, it’s super creepy, but mendacity is very common. People smiling to your face, only to stab you in the back. Have you ever been in the 8th grade? Worked in an office? Sat on a co-op board? People can be really shitty over a lot LESS. (I know… this is not a very cheery thought.)

So let’s turn our attention to mate poaching and Facebook friending. WTeverlivingF? Why would a woman who is fucking your husband want to pick you up at the airport? I’ll untangle the skein, if you promise to accept these unsatisfying theories and work towards meh. The important takeaways are — She sucks. Your ex sucks. Get away from them.

Here’s my problem: he told me all about this woman over the year he was away, describing her as a platonic friend.

“She’s Just a Friend” is the most well-worn phrase in the pantheon of Stupid Shit Cheaters Say. (Followed by, “What? You don’t want me to have friends?”) The person you trusted most in the world, your husband, told you the threat level was zero. She comes in peace. She’s just a really, friendly girl. You were broadsided later because you trusted him. He set you up, lied to you, and gaslighted you about the nature of the relationship. She was complicit in this, of course, as she knew he was married.

So why would she want to meet you? Or FRIEND you?

Theories:

1.) She’s assessing your threat level. By wanting to meet you, or stalk your Facebook page (as a “friend”), she’s doing reconnaissance. Do you look like a crazy, sexless woman who’s never let him know true happiness? He lies to her too. She wants to see who she’s pick me dancing against and assure herself that by God, yes you DO look crazy, sexless, and joyless in those Disney World selfies. She can WIN this.

2.) She’s a sicko who also enjoys the power trip. The biggest high from cheating is duper’s delight — the excitement in knowing something you don’t know. He gets off on it, she gets off on it. What’s more naughty than having the chump around, unknowingly humiliating them? That’s why affair partners get invited to your dinner parties, baby-sit your children, and ask you for free legal advice. Your vulnerability excites them. It’s extra terrific if you’re nice to them, or useful.

Also he’s goading her into the pick me dance. She’d probably enjoy goading him back. Having you around shifts the power terrain. She can subtly — or not so subtly — threaten him with telling you. (OW often want commitments from cheaters. It’s baffling.) That’s why she didn’t get invited to the airport. He can’t trust her. And she doesn’t trust him — they’re going to have an awesome marriage Liz.

3.) She’s dealing with her own cognitive dissonance. Freaks need impression management — not just for others, but for themselves. I’m not a horrible woman who fucks other women’s husbands, I’m a thoughtful person who gives rides to the airport! Who bakes brownies for Divorce Care! Who rewards all the bereft children with iPads! Whatever keeps the I’m A Good Person narrative alive. She needs to be “nice”, so she’s not so bad.

Besides, if she can get YOU to play along with OW Is My Friend, well, then everything is all for the best! No harm, no foul. Don’t go down the skein of “Hey, if I’m so crazy, sexless, and joyless, why do you want to be my friend?” IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU, LIZ.

And that’s where we’re going to end it — It’s NOT about you, Liz. Your ex is a horrible person, she is a horrible person, and it is ZERO reflection on you. These people operate in their own narcissistic universes. You’re just a prop in their fuckwit Thunderdome. The only thing you can do when confronted with mendacious fuckwits is to get far away from them. You’ve succeeded. Now — go get a good night’s rest.

****

Every time you support Chump Nation on Patreon, an OW trips and breaks her hair.

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    • Tracy, since Traveling to Australia isn’t an option for many of us, will there be a video post event? I’m sure I speak for all of CN when I say we’d love to see you debunking the IRC and infidelity narrative!

      • I was invited to Oz, I’m not the organizer. But if CN wants to help put something together, I’m totally game. We should discuss in forums. 🙂

          • I so want to go. Tell me I should go. I need a push. I have already taken time off to go visit a friend while Disney dad took our daughter on an overseas holiday. I am taking time off for the next lawyer meeting. What fun . And I am taking the day off to watch my daughter compete in a rep. sporting event. So.. I am feeling bad. But I want to support Chump Nation. I should go. Right?

  • It’s like she only learned half of the etiquette – yes, when you make an error, you try to make it up to the offended party. That said, some errors (cheating) are so great that you can’t make up for them with physical tokens.

    • This behavior falls into the “I’m a good person delusion/lie– It doesn’t matter what someone does as long as they’re ‘nice’.”

      Why don’t you like her/what’s your problem, she’s always been “nice” to you?

      • Ex told me I could use her driveway to park when the kids and I went to the fireworks sort of near her house last year. What a sweetheart. I don’t’ know if that was her idea or if his. Thanks but no thanks. I found parking in a lot right next to the venue.

        • Jesus, “I fucked your husband and blew up your life, but here, borrow my driveway” is all image management. “Hey, I don’t hold grudges, but she’s all bitter and won’t take my kind offer. She’s so difficult, poor kids, poor Cheaterpants, putting up with that all those years” *eyeroll*

        • That’s why I love chump nation. You all get why that was such a ludicrous offer. Honestly, however, I think he is the one who manipulated her into allowing him to extend the offer. I doubt she thinks as highly of me as he wants me to think she does. He just wants me to openly accept her because he thinks it will make others more likely to accept his choice.

  • Freaks…the lot of them!

    I’ve never met the OW (married howorker). I really hope I never do. I don’t know anything about her.

    I remember the ‘we are just friends’ line though. STBX said “Married Howorker and another (female) coworker want me to join Snapchat. They said it’ll be funny”. I told him to be careful, that it could be dangerous territory. He replied “We are just friends. You don’t understand. I work with all women. It’s not like that”. Yeah. Sure. Ok.

    Dickhead.

    They don’t think like we do. Liz, I think it’s best not to try to make sense of it. Just know that you are normal and they are not.

    • I got “I have to talk her like this. You don’t understand this industry it’s all women. (Um, I’m a woman)This is how I have to manage her. I have to be her friend. That’s why her birthday is in in our family calendar. All the women decided that we need to celebrate each other’s birthdays. I’m just playing along. You have a fucked up mind and too much t8me on your hands to come up with this shit.” But he was fucking her, so, yeah.

      • The thing is, you could do all that in an office (celebrating each others’ birthdays, I mean)–and not be fucking anyone! I get so mad at the way these freaks poison things for everyone.

        • Also, I usually meet my friends at Starbucks, not hotel rooms. Especially the ones with whom I really connect and get me.

          • “Also, I usually meet my friends at Starbucks…”

            Lol! (howeeeevver, Hannibal met gradwhore in a local coffee shop before they trotted off to screw on her twin mattress, so there’s that…..)

    • Yep.
      I found out after D-Day TEO had a SnapChat, Instagram, second Facebook account, etc. I could never prove it, but I believe he had dating profiles too. Something about how he said he’d met Schmoopie, the OWife Mrs. Dumbass. He never came right out and said how he’d met her.
      Dick-smack

  • Hand raised in support of theory #2 🖐🏼

    Both of them got off on spending time with me and hiding their relationship in plain sight.

    When I saw the smug, creepy smile on his face when I kissed her hello in his office, my gut took note. But I didn’t know then that they were fuck buddies and not just co-workers.

    There isn’t enough soap in the world to take away the dirty feeling that left me with!

    Step away from that skein and walk into the sunlight!!!

    • Rebecca, I got many smug, creepy smiles too. See Nomar’s post below about “duping delight”. DD is typical of sociopaths.

      Let Chump Nation walk in the sunlight.

  • Yuck! I can’t imagine how I would feel if the OW tried to friend me. The Married OW showed up at the gym a week after Dday, deep in the days of trickle truth, while I was still dancing like someone was shooting at my feet. I knew who she was, but my stbxh didn’t know I had it figured out. I’m sure she was there to scope out her “competition” and enjoy the power trip of flirting with my stbxh right under my nose. Took every single bit of determination to not club her with my water bottle.

    But, It also made me feel a bit better about myself. I had assumed that she was just terribly unphotogenic. She is, but it’s because she is a really homely girl. At least I discovered that it’s true. Cheaters trade down.

    She’s as mean as he is. They both suck. They deserve each other.

    By the way, I love this “Every time you support Chump Nation, a OW trips and breaks her hair.”

    ssb

    • “I had assumed that she was just terribly unphotogenic. She is, but it’s because she is a really homely girl.”

      This describes me, actually.

      She isn’t a “trade down” because of how she looks. Perceptions about looks result from a combination of random genetic arrangement, social trends, and personal taste.

      She’s a trade down because of her crappy character.

      • So very much this.

        I know that a lot of Chumps belittle their own physical appearance, but I’ve been around long enough to know that beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder, and some people don’t like heavy people, while others are attracted to bigger people. Some people love long hair or beards. Others prefer short hair or clean shaven. The common thread is that everyone is looking for someone they can trust.

        That’s why there’s always a trade down when the Cheater marries the AP. Both Cheater and AP are both okay with deceit.

        • I can’t honestly say Schmoopie is any better or worse looking than me. She is much uglier on the inside, however. He traded possibly tarnished sliver for a turd painted gold. Bad trade.

      • Amen! Their ugliness comes from their shitty character.

        Anyone can wrap their “package” in sparkly wrapping paper and ribbon but it’s still shit inside.

        Those that value relationships deeper than the height of a dime, can see right through their wrapping.

      • @Amiisfree and everyone else who chimed in – you’re right, of course. Her true ugly is on the inside. One week in from DDay I was looking for The why. Why did he pick her – what was so special about her that he would just shrug and walk away from 24 years with me, and what I thought was a largely happy relationship. I don’t think I’m particularly good looking either. I knew her character was shitty, and had convinced myself that she must be a beauty. Sorry if I offended anyone. That was not my intention.

        ssb

        • Thanks! I wasn’t at all offended. I just know that even if I had been a supermodel, my cheater would have cheated, as would most. They are novelty driven and consienceless. Like toddlers, but sinister and able-bodied.

          • I always remind myself of the beautiful celebrities who are extra genetically blessed and successful, yet have been cheated on. I don’t want to use another’s pain to make me feel better but there is something to be said for realizing you could be as “amazing” as that and cheaters will still cheat.

    • “Cheaters trade down”
      That’s the truth, One of my ex’s AP’s was a man old enough to be her grandfather. He was a married police officer working a desk job they give guys who are too old to kick out but not old enough to retire.
      The other AP I know (I don’t know the identify of the 3rd one) was an acquaintance of mine. He looked like me, if you made me fat, bald, ugly, and covered me with a bad skin condition. Oh, and you styled my goatee to look like an unkempt part of a woman’s anatomy, if you catch my drift.

  • Count me among the AP-stalked. Hell, at my cheating ex-wife’s request, I gave FREE LEGAL ADVICE to one of her APs.

    I figure, in addition to the one-sided information power trip (“Duper’s Delight” deserves a Weird Al satirical rap), you can’t disregard the cheater’s burning boner to get something for nothing. They’re generally greedy as well as dishonest and without empathy.

    • LOL OMG this is so true. I sat outside and offered business advice to my (then) husband and his AP. They were so sure they would earn big bucks and everyone would be happy…except for me and our kids as we weren’t a part of their plans. I still remember those shit-eating grins they shared in their excitement. Made me want to vomit when I realized what was going on. Oh well…thank goodness that it is way in my past now!!

      And the burning boner for nothing….well said Nomar!

    • I fell into the offering my services to the AP at the ex-husbands request as well. Creepy as hell how often this happens, these people have no shame. None. Zero. Ziltch.

      They all suck.

  • Liz, in my case the OW were “just an assistant”.

    My xh actually got me to help try to recover an ow’s suitcase lost by airline on the way back from “business” trip. It was checked under sparkledick’s baggage allowance. It never occured to me that said “assistant” would have exceeded her baggage limit of two 32 kg suitcases because she had had so much free time to shop in the USA and really was only assisting sparkledick in one way.

    Please give me a seat at the chump bench.

  • I will never forget the day years ago that OW brought her children, one in a stroller, to stand on the other side of the fence to watch my tennis lesson!

    How did she know when and where? They stood there, I ignored them. This was indeed creepy. I felt like I was in the zoo.

    • Wtf? Watching someone’s tennis lesson is fucking boring. I got scoped out too, at a family funeral where everyone gushed about her family loyalty.

      • XH’s OW was the typical piece of shit we all talk about, but she must have had an extra dose of coward. She sent her bestie (formerly her subordinate) to run into us when we were having a very late lunch on a Saturday afternoon – far from our home and the town they all work in. Bestie asked a bunch of questions about my braced leg and my surgery scheduled for the following Monday. This was the ONLY time I met this woman. Cheater seemed nervous and made fun of bestie when she walked away.

        A few weeks after surgery, XH tells me I’m “unattractive, physically and emotionally, and ILYBINILWY.” 2 months later, I’m served with divorce papers. A few days after that, I received a friend request from whore’s bestie. I found out days later about whore, and quickly found out relation to bestie – who had become my FB friend. I never understood how Bestie could do that for whore. I mean, her husband and kid were with her. How do you explain that to your spouse?

        • My ex-boyfriend cheated on me with his college girlfriend while on his annual visit home to Europe. She apparently brought with her the matching sweatshirts they wore in college in the 1980s.

          Cheater then gave those sweatshirts to his teenage daughter. Daughter packed them for a trip to Europe that she, Cheater, my daughter and I later went on.

          Daughter gave one of those sweatshirts to my young daughter to wear on boat rides.

          So now I have a pic of my daughter, then 10, on a boat, wearing OW’s sweatshirt. That’s just so effed up.

    • Admittedly I am not to Meh yet, and I check her fb page almost daily. I have a feeling she checks mine too, as if I make any changes to my profile or cover picks she changes hers almost immediately, and to some really odd choices, that only really make sense if you put them in the context of responding to mine. Like if I post a picture of my children (with face hidden, I try to respect their privacy and try not to encourage her), with a caption, she’ll immediately update with an old photo of her much older child, with, something like Best Kid Ever. Or I could be paranoid, and why wouldn’t I be? I try not to be, but after the surreal bullshit that happened, it makes you think anything is possible.

    • My cheater allowed his OWs ( “helpful client”!) interior decorator bestie to come into our home while I was away and take photos on the premise of giving renovation advice ! She even completed a “report”. I was bewildered when presented with this on my return as we hadn’t discussed this previously. Nearly threw up a few months later after Dday, (and I had seen her on OWs fb) thinking about her going through my house (and probably my underwear drawer) and reporting back…😖

      • I found out OW was left in my home alone to do all the rumaging she cared to do while I was away with the kids one holiday. She “peeked into the kids rooms” and felt a tinge of jealousy that our children had playthings she had only dreamed of providing her own children. Why do I know this? She herself described the rooms of my home to me to “prove” that she had been not only in my bed but in my children’s rooms as well.

        The level of violation is so very destructive. A sense of insecurity in your own home, initiated into your psyche by the person you should have the deepest levels of trust with is unforgivable. These people truly suck. They are disturbed and seem to want to be sure that everyone involved is touched by some level of disturbance.

  • OW definitely didn’t want to meet me! He was living with her (we hadn’t even started the divorce process) and they spent most of their time down at the slut bar. I was all dressed up one night after a night out and as I was driving past the bar I thought “sod it, I’m going to have a look at “it”! I wash up quite nicely so I threw my head back, chest out (one of my better features!) and walked in and ordered a tonic water at the bar. Slut bar went quiet but the Twat hadn’t noticed me. Schmoops recognized me somehow and scuttled out the bar. Twat started stuttering when he saw me. As I left I told the lady behind the bar that the Twat would pay for my drink – seeing as he was my husband and all!

  • Unknowingly dealing with the affair partners, is all part of the fucked up mind set of the cheater. The bullshit saying of what you do not know does not hurt you I am sure is my ex’s motto to life.

    My ex cheated with men, following d’day he engaged in a rather intimate relationship with a guy who was my physio at the time of his initial affair. I was never told the name of my exs affair partner as I was not considered worthy of such information. I had no reason to suspect this guy at the time but in hindsight it makes so much sense, because. In the months that followed d’day Ex and “friend” were inseparable, sharing wine and pizza, going on road trips, having breakfast together while cars were being serviced. All of it on Facebook for the entire world to see while ex was claiming to be prayed straight. But the penny dropped when our son who was the catalyst for d’day was invited to spend the day with his father only to discover he was a third wheel on a date between his father and this “friend”. My ex was so focused on this guy he did not see our son taking photos of them together. On returning home our son was angry that he had been dragged along to validate the two of them spending time together he vowed he would never spend time with his father again. Two years on from d’day and my ex gets married to another woman. And the friends role in the big day you may ask. He was the photographer for the wedding and just had to spend the night before the wedding at the same hotel as my ex to get the right shots. Photos of the bride getting ready were left to someone else as the hotel was an hour from the location of the bride and the church. And hilariously ex was late and left victim number two waiting, reason given, he was having trouble straightening his hair. I did not end there, ex went on a month long honeymoon to Paris and while there attaches a message to one of his photos that went and I quote “Good Morning sunhine (insert friends name here) heading off to bed now but we have so much to talk about”. Prayed straight? I don’t think so.

    • ok, for the record, no one can be “prayed straight”. That is a horrible, misleading fallacy that many perfectly nice devout people believe. Much like the IRC, they want you to believe it can occur through prayer, counseling, or eating all organic food….but it can’t.

      • I whole heartedly agree with you, “Prayed Straight” is the biggest lie. Not only to others but also to himself.

        His family and I just wish he would come out and be done with it. It might make him a nicer person.

        • Did you warn his second victim, er, I mean, wife? Sounds like she’s another Chump-in-the-Making, poor dear.

    • Oh yes, my son was also dragged along as a third wheel on a date with ex and his howorker. It was very disturbing to son to see them acting the way they did together in front of the entire organization, while his father was still married to me and ho-worker to her husband.

      It never occurred to me that they were validating their relationship by having our son involved. You’re exactly right, thinking back on it my son was aware right from the get go he was the one who told me “I felt like I was on a date with them”.

      And he wonders why his kids don’t want to have anything to do with him any more. God he is so dense.

  • Personally I think stbx’s stripper ow wanted to believe she was inncocent of any wrong doing.
    I made the mistake of calling her – rookie chump mistake!

    Then I got to hear from stbx cheater, the glories ow was singing to him about me; Apparently I’m super nice and polite (well I used to be anyway). Serial cheater killed that part of me!

    When I talked to her she just kept say in broken English “I asked him what about his wife, and he said, “what about her?” As if feigning concern for my rights absolved her of the responsibility for fucking a married man. Kind of like “well he doesn’t care he’s hurting her, why should I!”

  • The “she’s just a friend” bit is the f’n foghorn of LieToMeLand. Do not ever believe it. My stbx used it so many times it makes my skin crawl because each OW was “just a friend”. Ew.

  • Homeslice was quick to tag Douchebag McGee on FB when she went on “a date with her man”. Ironically, my family was friends with him on FB. She was marking her territory…. mark that territory. Pee all over him, he is deserving of that.

    Just as we compare ourselves to the OW, they are doing the same. Don’t try to figure it out, she’s not healthy. Don’t compare people’s outside to your inside as things aren’t always what they appear to be.

    They got married? Consider it a gift. The best gift ever. This is a generalization I know, however I personally do not know of a single military man who hasn’t cheated. I say this as a former military member— cheating was rampant when I was in. Still trying to figure out why that is/was.

    • Reasons include plenty of opportunities and cultural acceptance (group encouragement) of the “lifestyle.”

  • Yeah, back in December of 2015 when my Xhole joined AA to stop drinking, I was told there was an older lady in the group who he thought of as a ‘good friend’.

    He moved out into a cottage this ‘good friend’ owned in February of 2016 saying he needed space to process his new AA Sober Lifestyle and to get his head together. His ‘good friend’ supposedly advised him that he couldn’t work on us until he worked on him.

    The reality of it was this ‘good friend’ was fucking him at the time and when I saw the two of them together in his truck with her all over him, I kept getting the ‘good friend’ stories and how I was a jealous bitch for thinking otherwise. I asked him at the time, if someone you just met is a ‘good friend’ then what do you call me ~ someone who has been your friend for over 30 years? He had no reply, just the dead shark eyed stare.

    Fast forward to October 31, 2016 when the ‘good friend’ stalked me when she knew the divorce he had filed was final (I had not received the signed papers yet – but he had). I’m sure she wanted to see what he had divorced and where I lived. Why? I have no clue.

    The best part is, I don’t care. She can have the sparkly turd.

  • My mom was very sick, I was working 50+ hours and running from NH to CT to help my family during this very difficult time. My husband brought home dinner that his “slunt” had made for us. I thought it was so sweet that she would do such a nice thing for us! I told my ex how good the dinner was and to thank her. The whole time the two of them were hooking up every chance I was down helping my mom in CT. I can just imagine her satisfied smirk on her face when he brought her back the empty containers. Twisted MoFo’s both of them!!!!!!!

  • “What? You don’t want me to have friends?”

    XW said almost the same exact thing when fucking her OM. She just added in some details, “You don’t want me to have any MALE friends AT WORK.”

    Which was also preposterous. When I met my ex, she worked at a civil engineering firm–an industry not known for its high female participation rate. She had male friends, and it never bothered me in the least. … Until she stared fucking one. That got under my skin.

    • … and then they twist it into chumps controlling and isolating them by dropping the context; replacing “affair partner” with the word “friend”.

      That’s like replacing the word cancer with tumor, it could be benign, or it could be eating away at your life. If no further investigative diagnoses is done, it just grows unchecked. If the doctor was telling you “hey, there’s something wrong here, we need to intervene” and you ignore it, you can’t claim to be the victim of the doctors negligence! But hey, maybe we should say the doctor is half responsible for that decision… it works for the IRC!

      I wasn’t controlling and didn’t refuse to let him have friends.” I didn’t want him to have fuck buddies, completely different context!

    • After the first confirmed emotional affair it did bother me whenever he had female friends. I never found any smoking guns, however, and I knew that if I confronted him over it I would get exactly that line “why don’t you want me to have friends?”. I know this because this is exactly the kind of response I got every time I confronted him about anything he did that I didn’t like. In the end, however, he twisted it around to my not protesting his friendships meant that I didn’t really care if he had an affair.

      • Emotional affairs. Besides the long term one my stbx has had/has with a former student who is as disordered as he is, he has serial crushes on women at work. Boundary crossing and inappropriate behavior galore, although sometimes they don’t even know. I could/can always tell (I work with him) because his voice would change when he talked to them, the same time I’d get the icy cut off at home. In his mind, these are perfectly ok because he wasn’t fucking them. The thing is, because he’s an autogynephile (a man who is sexually excited by the thought of himself as a woman), he doesn’t just want to be involved with them, he wants to be them, too. He creeps on women so he can imagine himself as them later for his masturbatory pleasure. He may not act, but believe me he imagines himself fucking them and he imagines himself as them being fucked. How fucked up is that?

        • I believe you, these people are so often such an odd cacophony of fu**ed up. I know the voice-change tell myself. Funny how they get to be so pathetically readable when previously we were so unaware of what we were dealing with. But how did you manage to figure all the rest of this out?

          • Did anyone get the “keep the head completely still” (I would be behind him) and that head wouldn’t move. I guess like an animal listening out. He was trying to see if I was listening/could hear him with her.

          • How did I figure it out? Piecing together what he told me (he told me his fantasies and feelings), what I saw/see, what I experienced when with him, and what I’ve read about autogynephilia.

  • Ok, ok–I am going to claim a very high finish in the chumpy Olympics.

    When one of my creepy cheater’s many AP’s (as it turns out) went inexplicably missing, I put all of my social networking skills to the task of locating her. Oh yes I did.

    Turns out she was on an alcoholic bender. Found in an airport hotel surrounded by empty vodka bottles, and having missed the graduation of one of her kids.

    Yuppers.

    I look back now and can only sigh and be glad I am out. I was worried about that drunken whore? Gah. Not sorry that I was concerned about her kids (who the hell misses HS graduation in favor of a vodka bender?), but holy hell, the cheater actually persuaded me to help find her. What a sick rush for him, hey?

    Shudder.

    • Cash, that’s the scary thing isn’t it – in that moment, you were doing more for her own children than she was!

    • Ugh! I’m so sorry about the kids involved!

      In my case, I never went looking for AP. I knew who she was and where she lived and more importantly that she was the AP. That said, I remember that one night, CheaterX was really concerned. He’d been trying to reach Schmoopie without luck. Apparently she was out of town, supposedly house-sitting for a friend. CheaterX had to work.

      All of a sudden, CheaterX announced, “Schmoopie is missing and may be dead!”

      wtf?

      At this point, he didn’t know that I knew that he was having an affair, and if he’d had any brains, he’d have realized that this kind of announcement was guaranteed to raise suspicion. Anyway, I suggested he get hold of Schmoopie’s daughter and ask if she’d heard from Schmoopie.

      Of course she had, and she explained that Schmoopie was in an area with bad cell phone reception. CheaterX was relieved, and I laughed my ass off because the daughter used her cell to contact her mom, so LIAR! I figured that Schmoopie was off with some guy and didn’t want to talk to CheaterX.

      A few years later, I found out that indeed, she was seeing yet another married man! 😀

    • Don’t regret your compassion. Yeah, he got a sick rush out of it. Now you know better. He can’t use your humanity against you any more.

  • In my case, Ex did everything he could to keep up apart – I couldn’t figure it out at the time. OWife was the older, divorced, alone with no family, senior account assistant in his office. I would always invite these friends to holiday, but Ex was adamant that she had other plans. For yerars. I know: duh.

    And thanks for the Tom Lehrer reference this morning, Chump Lady!!

  • OK. Entering the chump Olympics here. When in cheaters office, with ow present, I asked her for a tampon. Face palm.

  • I met Schmoopie twice while they were fucking behind my back. I think it was definitely a case of #1. She wanted to make sure she was superior to me. She acted like she was trying to make friends, but she didn’t do a very good job of it. She ended up making me feel really insecure and I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. Now I wonder if that was deliberate or if she just couldn’t help it. I distinctly remember her talking about how tall she is and how proud she is to be tall and “gosh you’re so short”. Ex is tall. I spent the next few weeks before DDay wearing high heals or standing on tiptoes anytime I tried to give ex a hug or kiss.

    My ex did worse to her ex though. Her ex was one of his flight students. He raved about what a great student he was and pretended to be the guy’s best bud. Ex claims Schmoopie liked me (bullshit) but he pretended to be friends with her ex when he secretly hated him for being such a lousy husband. He cheated on her after all.

  • One of the APs (there were many) was a neighbor. Fuckwit was always having me help her and her family with various things she was too stupid to do on her own: helping with 3rd grade and up homework (using school supplies I paid for); setting up a wireless network (I paid for the router); figuring out what was wrong with her car (I bought the parts and watched the YouTube repair videos, too). I fixed her computer, bought clothes and shoes for her kids and birthday and Christmas presents for the whole family. I cooked food for her, made drinks for her, invited her to dinner, opened my home to her kids when she left them out in the cold while she was doing whatever. The whole time they were together (10 years), she never did one thing for me even though she has never worked and I always had a full-time job. After she was evicted from her rental, I looked for new places for her in her price range that would accept Section 8 housing (she has been on public assistance for decades). When I passed on the housing leads, she was angry at ME!? I had nothing to do with her eviction, that was on her lack of paying the paltry sum she owed every month after the state paid the lion’s share of the rent. Fuckwit told me that he told her I was helping her as a friend. She said “she (meaning me) had 15 years to be my friend and it was too late now”. WTAF? I did so many things for her and her family and the whole time she was fucking him behind my back she let me help her out. Fuck her, and fuck him for asking me to help her out all those years. After he confessed their affair (after he dumped her she was threatening to tell me), she sent me at least 40 vicious, ugly, texts telling me the sordid details. I had to block her and threaten to involve the police before she stopped texting and calling. Months later, she sends me a Facebook message asking how I am. How am I? Well now that my eyes are wide open, I am doing great. New home, new life, hopefully single and loving it by the end of this year. And you, you lazy skank, are right where you will always be, wallowing in your filthy cesspool, smoking dope all day between doctor’s appointments to be prescribed pain killers and anti-depressants and sleeping pills. Maybe if you got off your ass you could have a better life. One that does NOT include living off the state or having a married man pay your bills for you. So sorry you lost your last sugar daddy/fuckwit. I know you always thought he would leave me for you and you would get the nice car, nice home, nice vacations that you were so jealous of. It’s going to be a lot harder to find his replacement now that you’re almost fifty and at least 100 pounds overweight and Craigslist won’t let you post your personal ads anymore. Karma, bitch.

    • Oh wow! You went way above and beyond for your neighbor! Lol. My XH ‘s OW was the neighbor too. I didn’t do anything specific for her and her snot nosed kiddos but I did have her youngest feed my fish and water my plants while me and hubby were on vacation. Oh and once I invited her to a outdoor barbecue at my house! lol. And I went to her kids birthday party where her ENTIRE family was attending (and hubby insisted we buy the kid some expensive $80.00 doll thing as a gift for the kid!). I just can’t imagine how much $ “we” spent on OW in terms of dinners, entertainment and household repairs over the almost 2 years hubby was sticking his hand in her pants!

      • Oh, wonderwoman, don’t try to add it up. I found out that there was $60-65K missing from our savings after this latest D-Day. On top of everything else he stole from me (time, affection, my sexual health), it’s really eating at me that the tightwad spent that kind of money on such a thankless piece of shit as she is. She never thanked me for anything I did for her or her family. But she always had her hand out for more. She would actually tell him to ask me to buy or do something for her. And then he would thank me while she just sat there silent and smug. Both of them are ungrateful pieces of human waste and they can both just float away down into the sewer. Sadly for her, he wants nothing to do with her now. For my part, I would LOVE it if they got back together; two absolute jerks like them belong together so they don’t harm anyone else.

  • I think there is one other possibility, which is that OW really didn’t know that the marriage was on-going. I have seen that a lot, especially with OW from other countries. When a guy is staying overseas, he often finds it easy to convince his OW that he and his wife are separated, that they only stay in touch for the children, etc. I knew one woman who was living with a guy that she considered her fiance. Then he took off, saying that his son from his first marriage was sick, and he needed to go back home to care for him. She understood, and she waited… no word from him. Finally she contacted his (what she thought ex) wife to see when he was coming home Turns out the guy was still married, and his wife had no idea they were “separated.” So I think it’s possible that OW just thinks she is trying to establish a nice relationship with her guy’s ex-wife.

    But on the other hand, I knew some OW that knew full well the guy was still married to a wife in another country–and didn’t care. So as noted in the article, some bitches be crazy.

  • She wanted to meet you because she got off on it. She liked the idea she was tricking you. It heightens the experience for them. Sick as hell another type of kibble supply. It’s a weirdo high for them. A bit different than the AP who wants to avoid you in fear of getting caught or reprisals.

    • Yep, Mr Cheaterpant’s ‘friend’ sent me birthday wishes and gave some friendly woman to woman advice on childrearing to me. Yeah, I know it’s hard at first, especially when people are nice to your face and you have no idea they are planning to convince your husband to leave you with a newborn. Sisterhood my ass.

  • Well SMH my wife’s AP was also one of her younger cousins and quite a dislikable piece of **** so he really was the last person on the planet I suspected.

    Just before I found out about the affair I had already invited him into my home to stay for a few days, let him be around my young daughters and even cooked for him. I had been so duped by my wife’s manipulation that I believed this “misunderstood innocent” needed our help; so I had organised all his flights over from South America to EU, got his travel insurance, handled everything for visa/legal stuff and happily let him spend an entire month in our vacation apartment with my wife (and our kids) while I worked myself into an early grave elsewhere. Oh and I paid for everything too!

    Yes, I am Super-Chump

    • You are just a generous person. My ex was a tight fisted penny pincher. I let him handle most of the money–he earned more than me, I don’t mind living modestly. The year he spent with the Singaporean whore he vacationed with her all over Southeast Asia…and I even found a charge (albeit, not a huge one, but big enough) to a jewelry store over there (ex does NOT wear jewelry…but OW does).

      During same year, I didn’t receive a birthday or Christmas gift….and my ten year anniversary gift was the privilege of flying almost 24 hours to visit ex in Asia. Lucky me! And though I was sad and disappointed, I figured it was unintentional. I still couldn’t see the affair that was right in front of my face.

      Don’t be hard on yourself for treating others well. Don’t let your ex twist that quality in you!

      • Thanks Liz!

        And wow, not getting you a birthday or Xmas gift while splashing out on jewellery & trips & goodness knows what else on the OW. Beneath contempt. And the Save Your Marriage sites wonder why some of us just don’t care anymore.

        We and others can now look back with the benefit of hindsight and think “oh yeah there were quite a few red flags there” but at the time our too-trusting souls were just being sucked dry by the narcissistic vampires we thought cared about us. I’m glad this site exists to challenge my chump-i-ness

  • Let me be your cautionary tale. I met the other woman because I wanted to de-mystify her. So here it is: Avoid the MOW or OM at all costs. Nothing good will come of it. MOW wanted to be my bestie. Because affairs are about power and control nothing is off limited to these fuckwits. She wanted me to know she was central and I was marginalised. She wanted to tell me about her happy feelz, how she got off on the anticipation of it all. She acted like we were girlfriends she was confiding in when really all she was doing was giving me the fuck you, she just did it with a smile. She just wanted to be my bestie so she could reinforce her own inflated self-view. She wanted to keep our meeting secret from ex. When I told her that I didn’t wanted anymore communication and I wasn’t going to be triangulated she said I was out to cause destruction upon her. Yep, she actually said that. I cringe that I give her a nanosecond of my time.

    • The Affair Partner that my husband asked to impregnate her and then get a vasectomy while he was married to me (before separation and D-Day #1) acted as though she and I were allies. That we had both been wronged by my husband. Crazy stuff.

      I suspect that my last boyfriend lied about telling my replacement that he had a girlfriend. He also hid our relationship on social media for years. (I didn’t realize until nearly three years after we started dating due to me thinking that he didn’t post because he was afraid of my ex–I was wrong.) That way the women in his life would never know about each other and never compare notes. Life was easier for him that way.

    • Yep. There is always the smug OW……she got your man, he’s hers now and she is going to make sure you know it while posing as a friend. However, there is usually an underlining worry with the OW when they try to befriend you. It is a “keeping your enemies closer” dynamic. Deep down they know something is not quite right with their relationship with cheater. They’re insecure and they can’t quite put their finger on it. Cheater left you, is with her now, says all the right things but still…..that nagging feeling. So they work their asses off to show the world how great the relationship is, how happy, how devoted and how they are meant to be. Funny how it never works out in the end. Could be months, years but in the end it does not work out and they are dumped for someone else waiting in the wings.

    • I met one of the Fuckwit’s APs about 25 years ago after their relationship was outed. He did leave for her, but came back home after she cheated on him. She was just trying to get us side by side in front of him so he could pick which one he wanted, I guess. Nope, Fuckwit cheater didn’t want a cheater girlfriend! He has standards, after all! 😒 I kick myself for taking him back at the time. I would have missed out on all the STDs and heartbreak that came after.

    • These assholes are always the Sun and we are mere planets that revolve around them. Narcs.

  • Thank you for publishing my letter, CL! And thank you so much CN, for your responses. It helps a fellow chump feel so much less alone, and so much less idiotic!

    I am reading all your comments and feeling your powerful, positive, F* them vibes, and it warms my chumpy heart. You guys are the absolute best!

  • According to my shrink, sometimes people date a married person because they are not so much trying to get with that person as much as beat their chump. They can’t feel like they’ve ‘won’ until the chump knows about them, or they can join in the game of fooling the chump along with the spouse. This has to do with issues with their parents, transference and sometimes sociopathic behavior yadda yadda and a really long explanation here. The net take away is: it isn’t about you and listen to the CL and distance yourself from these people. Think of it as being around something that’s radioactive–you don’t need to know exactly what it’s going to do to you to know that it’s bad and you should avoid it.

    • This. Poor Me BPD had been an under-resourced single mom at an early age, and consequently in her mind she was entitled to hate on and deride any mom who had it even slightly better than her (and she measures things in economic terms because that’s her measure for things in life). She saw me as entitled and naive about how the world really works, and had a major case of envy that I had support during my child’s rough start. Any chance she got, she would attack me and any problems I had an minimize them as insignificant compared to what she forged through. It was a win for her to feel like she had degraded me and pulled one over on me, but really, how did that work out for her in the end? I hit back and hard, and she dropped the hot potato at the threat of exposure and scuttled for the underside of the rock.

  • The OW usually wants to meet the wife to size her up and compete with her. It’s same thing as “keep your friends close, but your enemies closer”.

    It’s certainly not to be friends with the wife, and to establish a friendship with mutual trust and where she will care for the wife’s well being. It’s usually to see what the wife is about, understand her flaws and try to be better partner for the Cheater.

    It’s all for self serving purposes.

    • Or another reason is to take the wife’s place. To see what she’s about and slowing infiltrate the Cheater’s world, and bond with his circle, and then eventually take the place of the Wife. Again, all self-serving purposes.

      • Wanting to take the wife’s place. Yeah, sounds right. That may explain why the latest OW friended many of the Fuckwit’s friends and family on Facebook, despite never having met them. She also got the phone numbers of our kids and mutual friends from his phone contacts. I guess friending people she would never be introduced to in real life was the first step into the good life she thought she would have when he dumped me for her. She probably thought that she would win the sparkly turd “prize”, and just slide right in to the privileges she earned by fucking him for 10 years. Nope, her kibbles got stale and he dumped her. I would feel sorry for her, but what did she think would happen when she chose to fuck him? She knew his history, she knew what he was capable of, she should have known that she was just one of many other people he used for sex. Didn’t she get the same STDs I got? So why the shock and anger when he discarded her? And why was the anger directed towards me? I never did anything but nice things for her and her family over the years that we were neighbors, and after he dumped her she lashed out at me in such a scary way that I had to threaten to call the police. Meanwhile, she would call him and leave sweet messages, begging for him to be her “best friend” again. It’s like she was two different people: a snarling, rabid wolverine to me; a sweet widdle baby girl (complete with a baby voice – come on you’re almost 50 years old! Gross!!!) to him. Not going to try untangling the skein for that kind of crazy.
        .

      • Yes, Poor Me BPD had been in contact with a number of Mr Cheaterpants friends, either via friendly chats on FB or through their hobby circle. And I did notice they seemed to be in contact with me less. Always a nice feeling, to know that you were being compared. After the shit went down on DD and she headed for the hills, I gave the headsup to one of his best friends wives, as I had seen in a text between AP and Mr Cheaterpants that his friend had offered to do something for her when she was upset, and I was afraid her dumsel act might have worked on him too. The wife never let on, but I believe through some of the intel that was passed on to me that she now keeps him on a tighter leash, so I suspect things may have been heading the same way as mine. This OW was definitely a hustler, didn’t work out with that mark? On to the next one.

  • Post Dday discussion after she’s moved in with her AP… picking up her mail.

    vSTBXWW: “But He’s a GOOD MAN! You’d like HIM!”
    me: NO! He is NOT a GOOD Man. He’s fucking a married woman.
    vSTBXWW: BUT! (Pleading voice)…I’m a Good Person!
    me: NO! YOUR ARE NOT A GOOD PERSON. You’ve destroyed all 3 of your marriages with your serial cheating. You’re hollow inside and you will never find what you are looking for.

    It was this hour long discussion that concreted my knowledge that I would never penetrate her 9non-existent) barrier, I was on my own, and D was the next necessary step. She made her decision, I had to make mine. No Choice in the matter. It was made for me. End of Line.

    See the programming!? Neuro-chemically linked, Falsetto Character, hard drives RESET, Monster Out of the Box. Life is Stranger than Fiction when the glasses come off.

    • Ugh. Change the pronouns on that conversation and it could be verbatim what my ex and I said to each other. No she is not a good woman! She deliberately flirted with, then had sex with, then formed a completely inappropriate long term relationship with a MARRIED MAN! This is not a good person!

      It is so infuriatingly obvious to me, and the fact that they are either playing dumb or truly not seeing it makes me want to bang my head against a wall. Why can’t they see it!!?

    • It bothers me that ex wants to present Schmoopie as a good person. She fucked someone else’s husband and then encouraged him to tear his family apart for her sake (after her marriage blew up). Not a good person.

      • Oh god. My ex calls CFMD “A Wonderful Woman”. But, CFMD is such A Wonderful Woman! With zero variation.

        When telling me how CFMD was railroaded in her divorce and she lost custody of her daughter not because she abused the poor kid! He said “CFMD is A Wonderful Woman! She has NEVER hurt anyone in this family!” I responded by quoting the text from her that started off DDay “JUST DO IT”. Fucktard had the grace to stammer and backpedal by saying “well, she would never hurt the kids”.

        Fucktard has told our children on many, many times that “CFMD is A Wonderful Woman, in fact she was helping me SAVE my marriage!” It must have been awfully hard to dole out marital advice with Fucktards dick in her mouth, but whatevs….

        My eldest actually told her father that CFMD could not be A Wonderful Woman because wonderful woman don’t fuck married men, and wonderful women do not abuse their kids.

        I don’t know who my ex is trying to convince more: me, the kids, his family or himself. But that bitch ain’t right.

  • I remember hearing that when there’s a suspicious fire, cops and fire fighters look around to see who might be watching it from the sidelines. Arsonists often cannot help but return to the scene of the crime to marvel at the magnificent destruction that they have wrought. I think Schmoopie was the same way. Uglier, less money, less education, leading a mediocre guidette suburban life, she got a rare sense of omnipotence by drawing close to all she was burning to the ground (even though I didn’t know about the affair at the time). What a sad, twisted little f*ck she is.

  • Oh, and I also remember an acquaintance – I’ll call her Slunty – sleeping with a married man, years before I was chumped (yes, even before I was a chump, I was the only voice telling her to STOP IT. Everyone else in Slunty’s circle thought it romantic, cute, exciting, etc.). She invited her lover with his wife to her Hallowe’en party. Whenever she spent time around the wife, Slunty would gush afterwards about how pretty the wife is, how cool, how she’s a yoga instructor (therefore limber and athletic) etc. because the more great traits she could find in the wife, the more it inflated Slunty’s sense of self-worth; “I must be AMAZING for loverboy to want to f*ck me instead of remaining faithful his gorgeous, accomplished wife!!!”

    How pathetic are Slunty and her ilk: that the fine traits they see in loyal Chumps become nothing more than fodder to prop up their own rotten egos.

  • Definitely #1 for me. Schmoopie is a FEMALE scientist (!), as she is quick to remind anybody who will listen. That means she is smart! Certainly smarter than ME, because, you know, I’m not a scientist. AND I like to knit, which is, apparently, proof of my stupidity….certainly of my laziness.

    Both of our daughters were born with the same rare condition, so she joined the FB group I created, then friended me. She attended the conferences I helped plan, and where she took the opportunity, when I was busy with new shell-shocked parents, to fuck my husband. And he took the opportunity to fuck her.

    I refuse to untangle HER skein, am working on not untangling cheater’s, and am instead focusing on my own. Thanks to everybody for the recommended reading lists. They have helped. I bought Tracy’s very early on, and it was the smack I needed. The others are helping me move beyond anger and grief. CN and CL are a blessing.

    Still covertly working on getting an “untraceable” donation together.

  • I took my ex to Florida (I paid for all of it, of course) for our anniversary and he was getting naked pics from her the entire time. She also went out of her way to wish us a Happy Anniversary on FB and commented on how “beautiful” and “happy” I looked. We also followed each other on IG and she liked my pics/commented on them often… I thought she was just a platonic friend too. After D-Day, I found NUMEROUS emails/sexting to more women/”friends” than I can even attempt to count; women who I was also friends with on social media and in real life. When I’d confront him about being a little TOO “friendly” with them I’d get called “uptight” and “overly-sensitive” and I’d get the “You trust me or you don’t” speech and –my personal favorite– the “I chose YOU” speech… Classic Narcissism. Classic Gaslighting. Classic Douchebaggery. They ALL have the same M.O.

  • Pre Dday, OM attended a barbecue at my house, shook my hand, drank my beer, ate my food and talked to me for 15 minutes while I was grilling all while he was secretly screwing my Ex.
    I believe they do it for #2–they get off on the power trip that they are cuckolding you and you don’t know it so in their minds they are the better man/woman, better lover, etc.

    Sick SOBs are what they are and the best advice is to stay as far away from them as possible after Dday.

  • The last two blog entries deal with the chump being introduced to information about the AP or a potential contact with the AP.

    I have to admin, this mindfuckery never really happened to me.

    My cheater kept that secret life completely compartmentalized from our “marriage”

    She (and her AP) was so lacking of empathy and concern and caring for me, that I really hardly existed to her, so she really didn’t play any games of this sort, as her only concern with me was that I raised the children and funded her lifestyle, and provided her with “safety and security” which she didn’t want to risk losing.

  • AFTER the fuckfest started, OWhore wanted to meet me. She came to a community dance at Fucktard’s invitation. She plopped herself down next to me to “try to get to know” me and later emailed with Fucktard about her impressions (she was NOT particularly complimentary). Which I read about when I discovered the email cache.

    When later confronted with this, and asked why the hell she wanted to get to know me (to find out how awful I was so she could tell herself she was “saving him” from me??, she wrote to me:

    “I was hoping that by meeting and getting to know you I would be more UNhappy about my affair with your husband.”

    Talk about the skein of fucked-upness!

    • I went out of my way to meet and be friendly to the emotional affair partner years ago. I thought that if I was nice to her she would stop pursuing my husband (she was the aggressor trying to get him in bed that time). It didn’t work. She kept it up for months until he finally told her to go away at my request.

  • I think a lot of times they’re checking you out because the cheater has filled their heads with all kinds of stories about how awful you are and they have to see for themselves just what kind of a monster is making their “precious prize” so miserable. You’re the enemy, and they’re sizing you up for the fight.

    Right after I dumped him, a woman who I had suspected was either a new OW or being groomed to be the his next primary supply joined a local social media forum I participate in, visited my profile dozens of times over a few days, followed my account to get notifications whenever I posted something, and started posting all kinds of meme-y images in the group’s open message feed about abusive women, jealous women, controlling women, crazy women, and psycho exes.

    Right before I dumped him, I had caught the cheater telling a different woman that I was abusive, unstable, potentially violent, and that he was afraid to leave me because I would stalk and retaliate against him.

    He was doing impression management by making himself a victim, and making me a monster. That way the women he was talking to were “for” him and “against” me. And by painting me as crazy and vindictive, he made sure that if I said anything about him, it wouldn’t be believed.

    It’s one of the different mindfucks they use on people to guide and manage them. And the OW and OM play right into it.

  • My X’s AP did NOT want to meet me. He spoke of her often, telling me that she was becoming a great friend and was lots of fun and could we invite her over for dinner cuz I’d really like her. She was a customer of his 25yrs his junior…and how much “fun” could they possibly have in a Jewelry store? Naive me said “sure”!
    She refused several invitations…but one day I caught them alone together in the private back room of his store. They both turned beet red and her eyes popped out saying “OMG, you are a beautiful woman”!
    She must have had an image of me built up in her own mind that I must look like the wife of Frankenstein. Finally meeting me face to face set that particular issue straight. After I took a deep breath and introduced myself, I then explained to her in front of my X “that if it were not HER, there would always be a parade of others that my X was screwing or grooming to screw”. She disappeared for good…I think, but I don’t care because X also disappeared for good not long thereafter also.

  • OW was a “good friend” of the family, one of the few people I would entrust with my kid. Not only did she start up the affair while I was 6 months pregnant, she continued to text with me throughout. She sent me congratulations on the birth of my son right after she had gotten offline chatting with my husband (I told him to go home and get some rest.) She offered me nursing suggestions and support, wanted pictures of my son, etc., all while asking my husband for a timeline of when he was going to leave us for her.

    I’ve accepted that I’ll never fully understand how she could do that, what she really got out of it. She told him that her husband had cheated on her. If true, she knew how much pain she was going to inflict on me at the most vulnerable time of my life and went all in.

    I don’t get it. I don’t think I ever will.

    • There is the typical OW, very insecure, usually come with Daddy issues. Then there is the psychopath and the OW in your life is a psychopath. Very scary.

    • The AP who told my husband to impregnate her and then get a vasectomy (the same AP who had been a psychotherapist and got multiple DUIs) sent one of my kids a book on martial arts and spirituality during the affair. The irony. She should have autographed it, ‘the woman who had sex with your dad while he was married to your mom, tried to give you half-siblings and them tried to get your dad to prevent your mom from giving you any more full siblings. Love and kisses, Alcoholic adulteress.’

  • Even though Mr. Sparkles was caught through phone records, emails, online personal ads, hotel room receipts, etc., he vehemently denied ever cheating on me. Even when his first wife called to let me know that the two of them kept fucking throughout out marriage, he said nothing.

    Then, suddenly, on what would become D-Day #4, he announced he was leaving. ILYBINILWY. I knew there had to be someone else. He pretended to wait six weeks, saying only that he had been on a few dates with her while he was deciding what to do about our marriage, before announcing he had “met someone new and it is SPECIAL.”

    We agreed “Special” wouldn’t be introduced to our son until she had been around for a year… but that didn’t stop Mr. Sparkles from asking if I wanted to meet her.

    Mission: Triangulation Pick Me Dance.

    I declined. Instead, I did some sleuthing and was subsequently able to show her that he had lied to her all along (we were not separated; we did not take separate vacations with the kids; I was “fine” with everything). And, of course, he cheated on her too. Very unoriginal douchebag, my XH.

    So, it took him a few minutes to wipe off his dick from that one before announcing he had met yet another SPECIAL girl…and, what follows??? “Do you want to meet her?”

    Now, I do understand that given that we share a child and my son has to be around his Dad’s victims that some might think I should meet these ladies. I, however, do not. My son is a very responsible 12yo with a cell phone. And, fortunately, neither of these public facing relationships are with undesirable women (that would make my XH look like a failure, so he always goes for the broken but upstanding citizen-women).

    At the end of the day, Mr. Sparkles wants validation and he’ll take it anyway he can get it.

    As for me, I stay away from her. She’s not the OW. She wouldn’t believe anything I have to say (to refute the lies he has told her about me). And, I don’t need to be a part of what comes next for her – because as we know, THEY. DON’T. CHANGE.

    No contact, CN… it is the only way to truth and light 🙂

    • Thank you, for this comment. I needed to read this today. My ex narc psychopath has found new supply/victim #2 since AP.

      I warned the #1 supply via a letter, of what he is along with substantial proof and examples of things he says or would future fake her with and even included his hoovering text messages to me, where he says I’m the “love of his life”, “he wants to marry me”, etc.

      All she did was demand he quit drinking. Then they went on our vacation together. But they broke up a few months later for all of the same reasons I left him.

      He immediately contacts me to commence the “friendship” Hoover. I check out his FB and see he is adding all his ex girlfriends (the ones he tried to triangulate me with). I shut him down and emailed #1 supply that he was probably hoovering her while talking to all the exes and don’t be made a fool of. He did that to me, and no one warned me and I was made to look like a fool and felt very betrayed.
      Of course, she got back with him. Sigh.

      They break up a couple more times, each time he tries to come back to me.

      Now, he’s met someone new. Within 3 weeks of breaking up with #1 SUPPLY, he has secured a #2 supply. I creeped her on FB and she is a girl I went to school with. She is also close friends with my lady who waxes me.

      So I told my waxer that ex narc psychopath is dating her friend and she is his #2 supply. Waxer lady is horrified because she knows what I went through with him. I told her that I am not warning this girl. If she is truly friends with her, she can warn her. Waxer lady sold ex and i, her couch when we were together. So #2 supply is probably fucking my ex on waxer lady’s old couch at exs house. Ew.

      I’ve prayed a lot on this. The other night my coworkers encouraged me to reach out and contact #2 supply to warn her. They said because he is such a predator to single women, and she has two young children (like I did), that something needs to be said.

      But even if I succeed in warning her, t doesn’t mean she will listen. And if she does and leaves him, he would replace her just as fast.

      When I spoke with him during one of the Hoover attempts he told me something that fucked me up pretty badly, which was: he said he knew, by how much time and effort I put into the warning letter for #1 supply, that I still really loved him….

      I DO NOT want him to think that again.

      So I put it to God, and asked him to bring this woman to me and I will tell her anything she wants to know. But I will not seek her out. I hope that is enough.

      No contact with ex has really helped my healing. I don’t want to set it back by becoming involved again.

  • I do think that the OW wants what the wife has. And maybe in their screwed up mind of they are nice to the wife. Maybe the wife will let their guard down. And the POS OW might get a bigger cash out. That is what I suspect my cousin wanted. Even when I contacted the POS she was so nice to me. Her and my husband were only friends. My slut of cousin is divorced and struggling financially. While our home was paid off. My lose her gain. She gained a big verbally abusive POS.

    • I really think you’re right here, at least in my case. I remember asking Mr. Justification why Schmoopie would text with me, comment on my FB posts of my kids (with heart emojis!), want to see photos of family events.

      He said, “She knew it would be suspicious if she didn’t.”

      Meanwhile, she’s asking him exactly what his take-home is.

      Truly, she wanted my lifestyle and was willing to burn me, my kids, and her kids to get it.

  • The OW told my X about an adjunct faculty position at the nearby university she was teaching that needed to be filled I my PhD area. I wanted to get back to teaching and it seemed like it would be fun. In the end I think she did this for a combo of reasons 2 and 3 from the article. In retrospect I am totally creeped out and can’t imagine why she would want me teaching in the same building where we could run into each other. I would have thought she would want to hide that as much as possible. She was 15+ years younger. She was very religious and even once sent an email to my daughter (after several years had passed since my X ran off and my daughter refused to meet OW or acknowledge her) telling my daughter about what a wonderful and good person she really was and then asking my daughter for forgiveness – my daughter responded saying only God could forgive her but my daughter would never never accept a slut and that’s all OW was. And that as far as my daughter was concerned, the Bible was pretty clear about adultery and adulterers.

    When I found out about the affair and my X abandoned my daughter and myself one day and literally immediately moved in with OW, I felt humiliated that the two of them must have been laughing about me for several years. OW must have been patting herself on the back for saving X from me: how pathetic I was to apply for the adjunct position where she could keep tabs on me, and feeling so smug she had “hooked me up” with the job – wasn’t OW such a special and wonderful person for thinking of me and doing such a pathetic person a huge favor. I am sure she got a wonderful thrill from seeing me regularly and laughing behind my back about what she knew and how clearly clueless I was. X was obviously telling her all sorts of awful things about me and she was able to “observe” the competition up close and confirm how vastly inferior I was, confirming how she was saving him from such an awful fate. Even more creepy, she was in the psychology department (so she must have much deeper insight into what’s best for everyone) and I was in the physical sciences, therefore I must be even more of a loser as what kind of a real woman is a physicist? No wonder I was “sexless” and just a “room mate” and poor X was forced to be “celebate” living with the likes of me.

    After OW sent the email to my daughter I realized there was also a component of trying to make OW feel she wasn’t really a bad person. I have to laugh that my daughter let her have it but I am also outraged OW tried to drag an innocent teenager deeply impacted by X and OW adulterous actions into “cleaning up” a mess generated by X and OW. What kind of person would think my daughter was somehow supposed to make OW feel ok about what happened? Now that is crazy.

  • I got the opposite of the we’re just friends. Cheater and OW worked at a restaurant together. One day cheater took myself and DS there for dinner before his shift. On my way out OW said can I help you and then said oh no your cheaters friend aren’t you. I was like WTF, she new exactly who I was. I questioned cheater about it and he raged in his condescending/sarcastic way that everyone knew about me and DS and he didn’t know why she would say that. I was already suspicious that something was going on with them, but I just didn’t truely want to believe it. There was no doubt on d-day who it was even thought he said I didn’t need to know and didn’t know her.

  • I had the pleasure of hosting BAM’s close guy “friend” at our house quite a few times, including an overnight stay. How weird it must have been for the friend (aka POS) to sleep in the guest room while his gay lover slept with his wife. The OM was smug and arrogant while BAM was skittish and nervous … go figure. He offered me suggestions on how to improve my famously good clam dip (“use crab instead”), critiqued household decorations, and was just an all around ass. I never spent much time trying to figure out why he was so rude, but it certainly made a lot of sense after the big reveal. OM did not get his fairy tale ending … BAM is now dating new female victims rather than committing exclusively to his lifetime partner. Now that there is no longer a wife and family as the excuse, I imagine he realizes just how unimportant he actually is to BAM. Just desserts.

  • I think the Ow in my case didn’t want anything to do with me. She had to deal with me because we were neighbors. She never tried to talk to me if she didn’t have too. She was very chatty with my husband though. If a woman is interested in being friendly with your spouse but avoids you, thats a GIANT red flag. Too bad I didn’t heed the warning! I think she just didn’t care he was married. She had been married twice, a child by each, both her ex’s were physically and mentally abusive and alcoholics. I think all she saw in my husband was a “great” guy who was great with her kids and wasn’t abusive or an alcoholic She thought she won the lottery and just didn’t care who she hurt. It won’t be long and he will be on the prowl again. She was not the first in our 21 year marriage and she won’t be the last after we got divorced!

    • That’s just it. A lot of OWs have dealt with worse so they think our ex’s really are a step up. Ok, so he cheated on his wife, at least he isn’t an alcoholic and he doesn’t hit me.

  • OW stalked us at the company Christmas party. We were standing in line at the buddy bar waiting for drinks and I noticed this woman right behind us being all giggly and silly like she was in jr. high. My cheater XH introduced us and she shook my hand and told me how ‘nice it was to meet me.’ *barf* After I found out they had been screwing in cheap motel rooms and he left me, I had a cancer scare. She sent him an email declaring how relieved she was when my tests came back negative. Can you believe this phony shit?! Like she gave a rat’s behind about me. What a piggy slut. The good news is that I saw a recent picture of her and OMG!! Being with cheater XH has not been kind to her. She was super ugly when I met her at the Christmas party and now she’d make a train take a dirt road. Not to mention she’s gained about 50 lbs. Hee-hee

  • I have the opposite of this happening in my life. The OW got pregnant about 5 months after my husband left me. She just had the baby last week. SUPER interested in helping raise my 8 year old. Wants her child and my child to be just regular normal siblings. Problem is, I have sole physical custody. They only get my child EOW and one non-overnight weeknight a week. And so far I haven’t let her meet my daughter because of how things have played out.

    At first she was all, “Let’s have open communication!” “I know communication is hard with your ex, but if I get involved I can help to make it better!” This was after they hid the pregnancy for 5 months and I called them out on it. After that, communication has not been stellar. So I haven’t allowed her to meet my daughter yet. I would prefer to wait until after the school year so it doesn’t mess with her school work.

    And she hasn’t exactly encouraged a positive relationship between our households. She has demanded that she be able to run her household the way she wants to (which BTW I do not care about, but you must respect some of my wishes as a parent), my ex consults her on all parenting decisions, she freaked out when I liked a photo of my own daughter on the ex’s Facebook page and demanded he unfriend me and my entire family and after the baby was born my daughter was instructed to not tell me what she looked like after she was shown a photo or what her full name was.

    I don’t care to ever meet this woman. She started dating my husband within 4 months of him leaving during cancer AND got pregnant within a month. To me that is cray cray and says everything I need to know about her. It sucks that my child has to have someone like that (in addition to her douchebag father) as an influence in her life.

    • I’m sorry Cancer Chump…this does suck. Having to parent with him and her. I can’t even imagine. Fortunately both our kids were raised and the only little children he fucked up were our grandchildren who have completely forgotten his name.

  • Ex’s whore doesn’t want to meet me, and she never will if she knows what’s good for her.

    However, she DOES want to meet our daughter. She’s trying to win our daughter over to her side which infuriates me considering my daughter is the one who found the whore’s naked photos on her iPad (because the iPad was still synced to her dad’s iPhone). Daughter’s birthday is this weekend and the whore wanted to get her a gift. My daughter said NO THANK YOU.

    Whore also believes that my daughter will hate her forever. When ex told my daughter this, my daughter said, “Well, she’s not wrong.”

    Seriously. WTF is wrong with these people?

  • Uchhh. Poor Me BPD sent gifts for our newborn. Which Mr Cheaterpants then proceeded to pose with our baby and take photos of. On DD I threw them in the bin. Never met her, but her presence was everywhere, all in the guise of “She has noone else, she needs my support.” Yep the Dumsel was a higher priority then a sleep deprived new mother and her newborn. She’s afraid of me, but mostly because I have copies of some very sexual and very personal conversations where she derides a number of individuals she purports to be very close friends with who would dump her ass and leave her without a parasitic host to rely on should they find out. Then where would she be? Off proclaiming her feminism while parlaying her ‘maybe if you’re lucky and do enough for me, one day you could enjoy THIS’ sexuality to make herself appear as fuckable as possible to the greatest number of men.

  • I emailed with on of my ex’s APs, thinking I would be able to talk with her, woman to woman. The relationship at this point was an EA, but they were being secretive about arranging times to meet (which means they considered it something to hide from their spouses). I asked her to leave my (then) husband alone, and did she think there was a marriage left for me to fight for. She wrote back that he had something missing on the inside that he was searching for on the outside and she considered that a more difficult hurdle for a relationship, and didn’t think he was a good prospect.

    She may have been right about him, but why did she get involved at all?

    • Yeah, I humiliated myself emailing the slut pig to leave me and my family alone. I’m not one bit proud of this. Like that cunt had a heart.

  • I think OW are especially receptive to bullshit so it makes sense that engaging in bullshit would appeal to them. If they are going to live a lie, they have to constantly manufacture illusions to support the lie. Liars lie and Cheaters cheat. Memorize and repeat out loud. Put it to music. Make your children learn it. It’s all you ever need to really understand about why they are the way they are.

  • The Tale of CFMD or The Perils of Pearl. Remember those silent movies where the young virgin with long dark hair is continuously kidnapped by a villain with a moustache twirling addiction? Tied to railroad tracks, tied to a chair, tied to a horse. Until the Dashing Canadian Mounty came to save the day. That is CFMD, according to my ex.

    The poor thing was CHEATED ON! Her ex ABUSED HER. Her ex KIDNAPPED THEIR CHILD AND WAS ABLE TO BRAINWASH THE KID INTO BELIEVING CFMD ABUSED HER.

    My ex was the dashing Canadian mounty, obvs. If they are short, with two artificial hips and balding with a distinctly cro magnum forehead.

    Anywho……CFMD does not have any access to her child. Good thing she is now StepMommy to 4 kids! Except the minors are legally barred from being with her, and the adult-ish ones hate her and refuse to meet (again). This doesn’t go down well with poor CFMD. So here are some of her getarounds:

    1. Giving her used furniture to an adultish kid even though kid isn’t moving out for years. Yes, CFMD really believed that I would have her cast off furniture in my home. Nope. Refused.

    2. CFMD gives one adult-ish kid (through Fucktard) half used art supplies.

    3. CFMD gave all kids her used books (all specifically picked out not with each childs interest in mind but instead to show off how intellectual CFMD is) and bizarrely cheap, tarnished and plain ugly jewelry. Like really ugly.

    4. CFMD started sending meals to ex MIL’s house where visitation happens – because minor children cannot be under the same roof as CFMD. Then she upped the ante by having Fucktard send home handwritten recipe cards so that I can make my ex husbands mistress’ Eggplant Lasagna. WTAF?!

    5. Every email or text I get from Fucktard has clearly either been written by or partly by CFMD. Under his name of course. But in the almost 30 years I knew him, Fucktard never once knew how to use a semi colon much less use words like “untowards”

    So, while she isn’t contacting me directly she sure as hell is letting me know that she exists. She is doing everything she can to have her presence in my home. To get to my children. To let me know SHE IS LEGITIMATE, DAMN IT!

    But she isn’t. She is a whore. A bona fide BPD, alcoholic, non medicated, child abusing whore. The best decision I have ever made in this mess was to never, ever respond to her directly or indirectly. I ignore it all. And that drives that bitch insane.

    I highly recommend it.

  • Gosh, I’ve only just remembered this one. I live in a very small community so people pretty much know everyone. The Twat was so paranoid and always thought everyone was talking about him/them. Maybe they were gossiped about a bit at the beginning but – honestly – who gossips about someone for months on end. I mean, Brad and Angelina split and how long did that gossip last? Well Brad and Ang Mark II were not the subject of much gossip I would guess after a week or so – it’s old news, and as I said to my husband “you just ain’t that interesting”. But he was convinced so wanted the three of us to go out to dinner together somewhere very public so that EVERYONE could see I was ok with it all!!!! I just laughed my head off, told him I WASN’T ok with it all and to go take a long run off a short pier. Though it is interesting isn’t it that he genuinely thought everyone was talking about them ALL the time for months on end.

  • Mmmmkay, I am just going to say this all right here, for those of you who came in late … This is my explanation of the Lola Doctrine, because I think it’s true! Call it my version of a guest post. Or a public service announcement.

    ********

    Too often when we are on the receiving end of cheating, it’s at the end of a long process of devaluation and discard. Sometimes it’s not – sometimes we are blindsided in what we thought was a happy and functional partnership of equals, with good sex, shared interest, and mutual respect.

    So when we see the AP, we are a mess of conflicting emotions: what have they got that I haven’t got? Is it her ass/boobs/cooking/blonde hair/ethnicity/brilliance/success? Is it his bigger dick/better technique/cashflow/full head of hair/manly tattoos?

    Whether you are a hot mess of abuse, or a blindsided success story, there is one maxim which I would love to see all cheaters take to heart.

    I call it the Lola Doctrine: ‘Cheaters never trade up.’

    I’ve been hanging round on ChumpLady long enough to learn that no matter how big her boobs are, or his salary is, the cheater’s partner in crime is always LESS THAN the chump.

    Even when the karma bus hasn’t come over the hill yet, it’s plain to see that two really awful people have found each other. As chumps often say: water seeks its own level.

    When I read chumps beating themselves up for being homely, or distracted, or too tired, or too pregnant, or not ambitious enough, or too boring, it breaks my heart. This is understandable, because it’s what we are told from Day 1 when there’s cheating – that it’s our fault for being not [blank] enough, and that we have to Own Our Part in the Relationship Breakdown.

    But this is so wrong on every level.

    We were doing our best, and in lots of cases, more than our best. We were working multiple jobs, raising kids, managing finances, trying to stay more or less in shape while also having some sleep every now and then.

    We were also – sometimes under real pressure – staying faithful to our marriage or our partnership. This makes us good people. Yes, that’s right. The good guys.

    But the AP wasn’t. The AP was swimming around like a lazy shark that’s broken into the paddling pool full of small children (our relationship).

    And the Cheater wasn’t sounding the alarm, or fishing all the kids out of the damn pool. Instead, they was watching from the sidelines, admiring the strength of those jaws, the curve of that fin, and that winning smile.

    The AP is not, and never will be, better than you. It doesn’t matter how good they look on Facebook, or how much money they have. An AP is someone with, at best, a shitty character, and at worst a serious personality disorder. They are the bottom-feeders of the relationship food chain.

    The hardest part in this process is acknowledging that our Cheater is perhaps not the wonderful person we invested so much time, money and love – the swell party who has naturally moved on to a Better Place because of our hideous muffin-top. They don’t call us Chumps for nothing. But hey – the process of self-forgiveness for being fooled by a predator starts with baby steps.

    If you’ve been systematically abused, then get some good therapy to help you regain your life and your sense of self-respect. If you’ve been blindsided, do the same thing. Once you start to repair your self-worth, you will realise that it’s true: Cheaters Never Trade Up.

    If you can internalise this, just a little bit, it makes the whole Gaining a Life thing a bit easier. And it will also help get you to Meh faster.

    • Lola Granola thank you. This is being forwarded to other Chumpy friends who haven’t got to this site; as a taster. And I am going to read and reread this because it helps me to shut down those comparisons I have been making. x 💕

  • I didn’t meet the OW, but my children did. He had her over to our house when I was out of the country for a few days and she met my teenage kids. DD13 told me much later that she figured he was cheating on me with her. I also learned that he was absolutely horrible to our children while I was gone – kind of like he was devaluing them along with me in preparation for the discard.

    The youngest 2 have very little contact with him these days. The oldest, who was away at college for most of wreckinciliation is on good terms with him as he was always No. 1 Son.

  • I think OW just gets off on believing that she “won.” What a prize! OW worked for our company and Cheater WAS (past tense) CEO. I think they both enjoyed the “thrill” of the affair right under my nose as well as my daughter’s nose as we both worked for the company too. Don’t they sound like nice people? OW is opposite of me–silicon enhanced, tight dresses, fringe, lots of cheap jewelry, lots of make up. Cheater and OW must has thought they had it made–using company money to pay for expensive hotels and meals. OW was “kind” enough to send me pictures of them together at very business conventions. All of this will come in very handy as I have turned it over to my attorney. May be a “no fault” state but I have a very strong argument that he diminished our joint marital asset–the company–by screwing around with her on company time and money. Board agreed as the fired both of them. Long story short–cheaters aren’t nice people or secure people or confident people. They feel special whey they think they get something over on the rest of us silly people who are just living our lives honestly and opening and respecting our commitments. Karma bus heading their way.

    • Wow Springfield, I’ve read a few of your posts now and your story seems very similar to mine. Hang in there, seems you are further out then me and I hope it all works out.

  • My STBX’s last OW was crazy. She was the one who called me at home to inform me of the affair. After that uncomfortable and life-changing conversation, she kept calling all the time. Asked to be friends. Tried to friend me on social media. Asked for my cell phone and email to stay in contact and send me proof (I said no and no). Told me she just felt bad to interfere in my marriage and wanted to help me through and be a friend because I seemed so nice and awesome. Blech. Of course she promised never to talk to STBX again, which I didnt believe thank God because she did not and was still trying to keep the affair which is probably why she wanted a channel to keep tabs on me. She’s a certifiable nut in my opinion. Also a former B list celebrity, alcoholic (who called me drunk crying at 4 or 6 am several times), rich widow and mother of two young kids I feel terrible for. Not dealing with a full deck. The others seem crazy too. Maybe you have to be to knowingly put yourself in the role of side piece.

  • Your ex is a creep so anybody he is involved with will be creepy. No reflection on you. Dont even talk to these people. I use to get contacted by all my husbands scorned girlfriends. They wanted to meet me and hang out and plan revenge on him. I would just tell them to fuck off after I got all the juicy details just incase I needed anything for court in my divorce. FREAKS !!!

  • In my case, the ratfaced whore OW didn’t just want to meet me (she already had, under the guise of being ”just friends’ with the lying fucktard), no, she wanted to *live* with me !

    STBXH fucktard had a flat, she was going to rent the spare room, ‘to help with the bills’, and *I* was supposed to rent out our static caravan, and come and live in the flat with him, with her in the spare room.

    Yes, the shitbag fucktard actually *planned* for me, his wife, to be living under the same roof as the whore he was fucking. It would have given them both a lot of sick thrills; ”she doesn’t know what we know, snigger, snigger”. They really are monsters, creatures with no character, integrity, or moral compass. Vomit.

  • Amen CL. Liz, the OW in my situation was my “friend” for several years—came to my baby shower, texted me after I delivered my son, sent me a baby gift, wished me a happy wedding anniversary, sent thanksgiving wishes—all while fucking my husband.

    Affair partners are crazy and reckless. They knowingly sleep with married people. You can’t understand it because you’re normal and sane. It is a good thing that you don’t understand it.

  • Tinman had me host the OW in my home. While I was 7 months pregnant, telling me that she was like us, away from home, without family or friends as she had relocated to work for him. The entire time that witch was in MY HOME with my child she was doing the pick-me dance. I mention how fat I feel (because you know 2/3 of the way through growing a friggen HUMAN) she mentions how she is a size 8 (tiny in Oz) with DD boobs… I put my hair up because it was ridiculously hot she starts mouthing off about how Tinman KNOWS how fast her hair grows and about how fast her nails grow. She’s from Melbourne and it’s the middle of summer in Far NORTH QLD (so hot as balls) and she is complaining that she is cold and can she please borrow a jumper… so he goes and gets her one of his to wear… bitch tried to take it home! I fed her I smiled at her I was kind to her and then I sent him to fucking drive her home because she didn’t even have her own damned license!

    I didn’t even find out about the affair until years afterwards and it was because one of the girls that they worked with couldn’t bear to keep quiet anymore and hunted me down on FB. She felt terrible for not telling me at the time but he was her boss, and I was pregnant and she didn’t know if it would be better for me to have known then… I appreciated her honesty, I just wish it had come a little sooner.

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