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Dear Josh

Dear Josh of Somewhere in the Mid-Atlantic,

You don’t know me. I run an infidelity blog. I happened to have dinner the other evening seated next to your cheating wife. She was with this really douchey guy about 15 years older than she is (late 40s, early 50s). The kind of guy who flips his collars up, even though that ceased to be cool about 1986. The kind of guy who fucks married women.

I tried not to overhear, but your wife has a voice like a foghorn. I was seated alone. Tired from a long day, I brought a New Yorker with me for company, and I was enjoying this really great article by Oliver Sacks on gefilte fish when this horrible voice boomed, “BRING US THE BEST THING ON YOUR MENU! What’s the BEST?!”

The waiter stammered, “Well, the slow-cooked beef is really good…” and then went through his list of specials, none of which was salmon. “DO YOU HAVE SALMON? I LOVE SALMON.” Then she nattered on about all the other restaurants which have really great salmon — Alaskan sockeye WILD salmon — the BEST salmon — and THIS place Had No Salmon.

(Dear Cheating Wife, this is Lancaster County, Pa. You’re at a farm-to-fork restaurant featuring produce and meat from Lancaster County. Last I looked, there were no locally sourced Alaskan salmon in Pennsylvania. Perhaps you could put in a request with the Amish.)

Irritating diners. Whatever. Back to my New Yorker. They make chitchat. I assumed they’re acquaintances or co-workers having some business dinner. Then I hear, sotto voice, “But I’ve always loved you unconditionally.” 

Douche mumbles “Well, I love you too… but it’s complicated.”

I now must eavesdrop on these idiots. I cannot concentrate on anything else. I consider slipping the waiter a note and asking him to spit in their food.

Your cheating wife inquires after his wife. He says, “There are economics involved.”

Then your cheating wife launches into a long soliloquy about her love for the Douche.

“I just followed this path. I thought it was what I wanted. We built our dream home. But I never gave up my love for you. I always wondered and held out hope. I’ll always love you.”

Douche mumbles something incoherent. Roughly translated I think it was “Thanks for the kibbles, but let’s just fuck now.”

Then Josh, your four-year-old daughter called. Your wife’s voice went up a couple octaves.

“Honey! Did you get TAP SHOES? That’s so awesome! Mommy misses you! Love you!” Then your mother-in-law got on the line and I heard “Mom, thanks for getting her tap shoes!” Your mother-in-law is babysitting while your wife is cheating with Douche. I don’t know if your mother-in-law is in on it. This doesn’t look good.

I know your daughter is four, because your cheating wife mentioned that she still naps and enjoys pre-school. And she told Douche all about her complicated life as a mother, how she wants to home school, but your daughter needs the socializing. Cheating Wife is just so busy and Really Wishes She Could Spend More Time With Daughter.

Josh, I think you’re supporting her stay-at-home-fuck-other-men lifestyle. I’m sorry.

I’m also sorry for your 10-year-old son from your first marriage. (Please tell me you didn’t break up your first marriage for this horrid woman.) Apparently your son is very fond of the four-year-old, after some initial jealousy. Douche asked after him. Douche’s kids are in college. Douche thinks it’s ridiculous that his college-age son expects any financial help with college. (However could he finance your wife’s salmon habit?)

Anyway Josh, I’m sorry I didn’t get a name or throw water in their faces or tweet pictures of them for public ridicule. It was gutless of me, and I will forever live with the regret. They suck. I thought you should know.

— Tracy

This column ran previously. I hope those two have died of the clap by now, and Josh has liberated himself to a better life. I still live with the regret of not telling those people how much they suck to their face. And yes, this really happened. These freaks are everywhere. 


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    • It’s so bad now these cheaters in Canada it’s just rampant and the divorce rate to go with it!????????????

  • These dipshits are everywhere. While the chump is out earning money to pay the bills. The selfish fuckwits are out cheating.

    • Yup my ex fuckwit was the bread winner and our fucking everybody

    • NOT true my fuckwit was out working and cheating while I went to work over night. He was sneaking the tramp into our basement!

      • Then when we crossed paths in the morning for me to get the kids off to school and sleep, he played the devoted, loving husband what a JOKE!

        • Carol…the balls!! The balls it takes to sneak her into the basement. Makes me sick. So sorry that he was doing that literally underneath you. So glad you’re here on CN and not unknowingly trying to win that unwinnable dance.

          In keeping with overhearing tales about cheating, I’ll share what I recently experienced on this front. I was watering my yard a few weeks ago and heard yelling at the top story of the duplex behind ours. The woman there has a young baby and just moved in a few months ago by herself (at least I’d never seen or heard a man there). I heard her yell ‘Why do you even come around? You never even ask to see your daughter and all you ever do is cheat on me.’ I didn’t hear a male response.

          I legitimately contemplated dropping her an anonymous card with nothing more than the Chump Lady web address on it, but it turns out I didn’t have to. The other day, I hear a LOUD male voice screaming very early on a Sunday morning. ‘Why are you doing this to me, Angie? No, I’m not fucking leaving!! I love you!! Why are you fucking doing this?? How can you do this to our daughter?! I hate you!!’ He was positively unhinged. I was about to dial 911 because he sounded like he could get violent at any minute, but then I looked out and saw him leaving as she was pitching his bags down a flight of outside stairs. She yelled ‘Don’t come back, you cheating piece of shit!’

          The part of me that has always been raised with ideas about appropriate behavior, stifling drama for neighbors, and behaving ‘respectfully’ took issue with the way this played out for all to hear. But the part of me that’s been cheated on and has read Chump Lady for years told that part of myself to STFU and to stand behind her fence and do a slow clap. Because even though she had a little baby and the sunk costs that go along with that, she knew that shit needed to END. That she knew her worth and didn’t equivocate. I pray she stays strong. Maybe I’ll drop that note in her mailbox anyway so she can read all of the stories of mightiness on Chump Nation so she won’t EVER let that weasel back in the door again.

          • Sounds like she could use a friend. Why not just stop over with some donuts and a sympathetic ear?

            • I thought of that but struggled with the fact that I NEVER have care for my kids (and I wouldn’t want them with me overhearing, they’re 5 and 7) and also explaining my intimate knowledge of her situation. Hi! I was watering my gazanias the other day…
              But you’re right. Screw discomfort. I would have paid a million dollars for the kindness of a stranger on my d-day. Stuck in a state I’d moved to for my cheater, left there unceremoniously with nothing but his obtuse parents and my searing grief. Maybe I could drop her a note and invite her to talk. 🙂

              • Drop her a note and invite her to talk. It doesn’t have to be about her relationship, becoming a single mom can be isolating and it sounds like you have some experience as a single parent. It could just be nice to make a new friend in the middle of a horrible time.

  • My X and Miss Piggy could have been this exact couple overheard st a restaurant. They are truly all the same.

    So much wasted time ( mine ). Thousands of dollars away at conferences, courses and retreats. Lunches during the week ( while kids and I ate on a budget ).

    And I believe the same kind of vapid conversations. But if only Lucky could just die of cancer we could be truly happy and be together!!!

    But it’s complicated ( cue the soap opera music ) and people are all judg-y and stuff. They don’t understand our special lurv ????

    • He was away on a vacation spending money and I was left home working and cleaning. I was making myself soup when he texted me to see what I was doing. Then he apparently got up from the table to call Tinder whore and tell her how awesome the restaurant on the ocean is and it’s too bad she had to be home with her daughter. An annoying location assessing text to me and a flirty 20 min phone call to her. He was making arrangements to meet up with her the next day. Whore told me he said he had to go because his food came. He texted her that he was disappointed she wasn’t there with him. I asked earlier in the day if i could drive down for the night and he said no i can’t waste the gas money. I’m eating $3 bean soup home alone and he’s arranging a hook up with a whore while fake texting me while on a week long vacation with his co-workers at the beach paying cash for whatever he wants.
      This isnt a husband. This is a man embarrassing the shit out of me in public in front of his coworkers that know me. Smoothly lying to me. Selfish. entitled. shit for brains. What moron cheats on their wife while being an additional line on her phone bill??? He was staying in the prostitution capital of our state. Can you not figure out a way to get a hooker without using your phone? Moron calls and texts a hooker? Then texts and calls a tinder whore 800 times in 4 days. Got a random chick’s number in a club and partied with her and texts her. Forget the infidelity/lying part… I’m embarrassed to be married to such a dumbass brainless moron.
      Sorry your budget eating comment sparked a flashback. Thanks for letting me vent.
      Hope you left your prick.
      He wanted you to just die of a horrible disease.
      Asshole wanted to bury me in a hole in the backyard. (info so nicely relayed to me by my neighbor) Oh along with my sweet old dog. Both of us buried alive in the septic hole. Neighbors wife told me not to be upset because… ‘boys will be boys’.

  • I’d really like to feel strong enough to confront a cheater or someone who excuses cheating, such as the in-laws or STBX’s friends (if he has any left). I’m so hopeless at knowing what to say, especially in a confrontation. I hope I have learnt enough from this blog to know what to say when the blame comes back to me.

    In CL’s scenario, I’d like to think that I’d walk over to their table and tell them that I know Josh really well and I was going to call him if they didn’t fess up themselves. Either they would confess to their spouses and give them a chance to (hopefully) leave or they’d be forever worried every time the phone rang.

    • I love that scenario, AussieChump. I will make a mental note of that if I’m ever in that situation. I would love to tell the cheater I know their spouse, will rat them out and watch the panic on their face. ????

      • HA!

        “OhmyGod – you’re JOSH’S wife, aren’t you? Wow – this is [insert short monologue here]. Listen- Josh doesn’t deserve this… if you don’t tell him, I will.”

        And if they ask for proof, just smirk, take a picture, and walk away.


        • I think the smirk and the picture are probably even enough to create great worry. Ha!

          I wonder if it would be legal to just post photos like this with no caption and ensuring no financial gain? Probably best not to risk it, but it’s fun to think about.

      • Mine was cheating in FRONT of me that’s how brazen this POS was talk
        about an egotistical fuckwit!

    • Josh and schmoopie are enjoying a romantic candle lit dinner at the country club.

      You march right in and serve him your divorce papers right in front of his peers and enablers. You don’t even have to say a thing.

      You’ll get a standing ovation or else a lot of red faced quiet whispers..

      Either way – you win..

      • Oops – my bad. Josh is the chump.

        Change the narrative to cheater wife candle lit dining with her schmoops.

        • Cheater texted ‘old fucks from college’ he looked up on Classmates while setting up sessions with hookers on their online booking site. When done he’d get on an interactive website with more hookers to crank one out

          Wifey downstairs in her office because Sociopath Chester was, once again, upstairs networking for a new job. She’s a financial advisor and must support the family. Cheater tries so hard. Must not disturb him

        • I served my ex husband divorce papers at work he went ballistic. He thinks he’s such the “MAN”!????????????????????????????????????????

    • I would also like to think that. But we all really know, there’s no point. Like teaching a fish how to knit! But we can have fun pretending! The further you get away from this, the more sense it makes!

  • The entitlement of these two morally corrupt human beings is disgusting. I don’t know them, don’t have to, but I do know they are willing to destroy that sweet, innocent little girl’s world for some cheap, temporary thrill they get from engaging in an affair. They label their deceitful actions as “love” to justify their pathetic relationship.

    I hope Josh got wise to the lovely foghorn’s betrayal and kicked her to the curb. I would love to see her floundering in the gutter where she belongs.

    • … and, as we all know, that sweet little girl is now at greater risk of becoming either cheater or chump herself once she’s all grown up, because she has a cheater parent. Thanks, Mom!

      • That’s what I worry about. Douchecanoe told his kids “everyone has a right to be happy” when they asked why he was blowing up our family. As if that excuses hurting the people closest to you. I sometimes wonder if that’s what he’ll tell them if they get chumped themselves. “Honey, your husband and father of your children has a right to be happy and move on. You must’ve been a shitty wife like your mother.”

        • OMG…
          This is what my STBX said to our teenage sons…same script…
          Everyone should be happy…because we all know that marriage after 23 years EVERY DAY is a walk in the park.
          And “happiness” can be found at an AP home after 2 AM…
          I finally hired a lawyer after months of pick me dancing,crying, confusion and so many DD I can’t count..
          Good Luck with the AP…I hear she is on serious mental health meds…

        • RonBurgundy told our then-7 year old son who asked how he could leave us, “Well, you wouldn’t want Daddy to be unhappy, would you?”

      • When I met cheater x, she had been divorced for 13 years. 3 sons from the marriage (25, 22, 19)
        She once lamented to me that she wanted a daughter.

        Judging by the amount of men cheater had shared her bed with in those 13 years makes me wonder if the wanted daughter would have turned out to be pregnant at 14.

        Cheater x’s love life role model skills weren’t the best.

    • I know exactly my former cheating ex husband is trash too, destroyed our family to mess with a DRUG addict!????

    • And I love how Douche explains that the “complicated” part is financial — because of course money is what matters most to him. His wife and kids don’t at all; he resents the annoyance of having to contribute to anything at all concerning them, like college, etc.

      • It’s always about the money. I’m on my 4th round of post decree motions thanks to Douchecanoe and his ho-wife wanting to pay less child support though his income keeps rising. And every time after a few thousand dollars of legal fees the judge rules against them. No concern for how this exacerbates the shitty relationship we have and the added stress on the kids. No concern at all.

    • My STBXW got really offended when I called her a “bad mother”. When she retorted that she ‘does everything for the kids’ I simply explained that sneaking around for 6+ months behind my back to get some asshole strange, plus all the time spent on her phone, money spent on AP etc was stealing time from the kids and me – not only the infidelity itself and the destruction of the family it has brought. She totally didn’t get it. She still refuses to connect the two.

      • Hey I so get my ex husband also he’s so “ENTITLED” to fuck who he wants even if my 9 year old son has to tell me!????

  • I’m still amazed at the “Universal Language” of cheaters. I also got “it’s complicated’ and the two lovebirds sitting down to make a plan to leave me and his child…. these assholes make me want to puke.
    Josh I hope you’re in a better place minus cheater now.

    • This. I reran this one because I think they all work from the same bad scriptwriter.

      Tomorrow’s Friday challenge might be What You Think It Is versus What It Really Is

      What you think this dinner is — romantic, glamorous, fabulous, star-crossed

      What it REALLY is — insipid, shallow, full of hidden kibble agendas (ME, no ME!)

      • Can’t wait, CL!
        Thank u.
        My divorce is almost final. My cheater H is still living with me and our 12 yo twins until he receives his check from me buying him out.
        He has a big smile on his face all the time as he is looking so forward to starting his new life with his co-worker and her 2 and 4yo boys. Oh, btw, she’s married, too. No clue how long their affair was really going on prior to Dday, but they are “soulmates” and each other’s “twu wuvs.”
        I see him so happy and think about how wonderful things must be between the 2 of them. So excited they can begin their new life together with no more secrets and lies.
        Can’t wait to read the column tomorrow!

      • CL
        Thank you for this rerun! Countdown to the day I can publicly disclose all is fast approaching! You are so very right – they all work from the same bad scriptwriter! The pile of BS is so high – I guess that means I need to make sure I have a MASSIVE bulldozer – on steroids available!

        Seeing clearly

    • Yes agreed although the financial part of leaving is very difficult

    • Agreed these types are MENTALLY ill and need professionally counseling! All you can do is move forward without the LOSER and do what’s best for the kids

  • It’s complicated alright. Until it’s not. Which reminds me of how the decision tree operates.

    As mere loyal mortals we live in limbo until we know. And she deserves Salmom. I say let her have it Josh.

    The best decision is fueled by having enough.

  • Can I hijack this post with something only partially related to the topic at hand? I have had about twenty minutes sleep tonight because the estranged husband of the affair partner reached out to me tonight just about the time I would normally go to bed.

    This is not my first conversation with this man. I reached out to him eight years ago to tell him that my husband and his wife had sent emails and texts professing their love for each other. I was in year three of a pick-me dance where my STBX was full-on cake eating. What started out as friends re-kindling their friendship after “re-meeting” via Facebook turned into a scenario of him managing several women at once (since he was separated and he had the right to date, he said) while at the same time enjoying all the perks of image impression from his family life, house and wife.

    As one friend communicated to me at the time “a separation only clarifies boundaries to the extent in which he lives within them”, this man had his own apartment but was with me and the kids most days of the week while we still made a future, did things together as a family and even conceived two children during that period (one lost to miscarriage).

    When I finally dropped the gauntlet, it was after a year of desperate dancing where I worked, had two active children and a newborn with a major congenital heart defect which meant at least a couple of days per week managing her therapies particularly once I understood she had cerebral palsy. My husband still elected when and how he would participate with the family (although he was becoming more distant) while I was emotionally crippled by my situation and the fact that I was so pledged in my mind to keep my vows and my family intact.

    When I reached out to the AP’s husband, he was blindsided and I had known for months (hell, I found emails from 14 months past while I was recovering from a c-section and waiting for my daughter’s open heart surgery that at the very least were far too friendly particularly when he said they were “just friends” – I found a way to spackle). I played into the notion that I shouldn’t upset his family life even if mine was a mess. Tonight, he reached back to me and started out the conversation asking me if I was separated. I said yes and told him it had been 3 1/2 months since he discarded me but then where I had to kick him out since he flew into a narcissistic rage when I asked him when he was going to move out (he believed he would continue to stay in our house with the kids like nothing had changed).

    Tonight he described a timeline that likely extends at least eight to twelve months back when he suspected they had rekindled their relationship. His wife was a repeat cheater and they had decided fours years before that they would co-parent in the same house but that there was no relationship between them. Last August, she announced at dinner (with no prior warning to her husband) that because he lost his job, they were broke and unsure how to hold on to the house, she was leaving him. The husband believes she made this move with some belief that my husband would jump out of his situation. He didn’t – he stayed with me until January…she had moved into her own place a scant two weeks earlier.

    Finally, they could be together after their love was thwarted in high school (because she friend-zoned my husband and got together with the quarterback – her future husband) and eight years ago (when she had small children and not the financial means to be on her own). My husband had finally won the trophy after a high school experience where he was labelled a nerd and could not get sex (and he was so entitled to it!).

    I am taken aback and not at all at the same time. At least it gives me some validation to my suspicions at the time but it does not explain why I spent most of last summer re-connecting with him (we let ourselves have freedom and alone time now that our children were older), planned family vacations, re-did the front and back yard and planned a massive renovation that was to have started in January (which he still wanted to do – the expectation was that I would still be able to move into his parents home with him and the kids and pretend like nothing was wrong).

    I guess this is my D-day 2 1/2 – I had D-day 2 with this shadowy woman he texted all the time last fall whereas D-day 2 1/2 came with a name, a history and an understanding that they are firmly entwined in each other’s life (fuckwit is going to meet her daughter tomorrow). I will have to wait and see if he has the temerity to introduce my kids at this early date. And I am still deciding whether I divulge to these kids that this AP is the same one who I dealt with from 2007 – 2010…what a waste of the last eleven years.

    • You hung in there. Get a lawyer. It will be rough for awhile, but eventually you will gain a life.

    • KA–we’ve all been in the state of “____ years wasted,” whether 11 or 24 (me) or 30+ like some other chumps. There will come a day when you realize those ‘wasted’ years shaped you into the person you are 3 or 5 or 10 years out, and the pain of the wasting will dull.

      In the meantime, do not lie to your children. Present the facts as they are convenient to tell, without embellishment. Trust me, if you do not get ahead of the narrative, your cheater will.

      And protect your heart–no more family vacations or holiday get-togethers. I don’t care how strong you (or anyone) is, full healing only takes place with physical and psychological distance from the cheater. If they are within your circle, part of the wound stays open. It may be necessary to have some contact because of having children together, but zero emotional investment (“just the facts, ma’am) will help–it leaves only a small piece of the wound unstitched.

      Zell is right–get a lawyer, and start copying ALL documents (including retirement statements from when you married, tax returns, current statements, etc.). It’s time to go, and you and your children will need financial protection. Hugs.

      • Frame it a different way than years lost.

        A small gift acquired after living with a demented freak is that I truly don’t sweat the small stuff. About three weeks ago, a big error at work required us to stay up all night and fix something that was due.

        One of the women was hysterical alternating with sobbing rage. She said she had never stayed up all night, and she was infuriated about the persons mistake. Other people were venting and raging that we would have to stay up all night.

        This is not a humble brag. It is just after going through such a traumatic brain injury, soul stabbing with the freak – I just saw it is almost funny. A strange adventure. I told them that complaining about it was not going to get the work done. Let’s just drink some coffee, take a deep breath and get it done. I was able to take a leadership role because I was able to stay so unfazed and pleasant.

        I realized that when I did get to go home at 7 AM, I would not have a pit in my stomach wondering what nightmare scenario I would be facing due to living with a remorseless, heartless, cruel two faced clown.

        My APR went up? OK I’ll refinance. My friends car breaks down? I can jump you off. A neighbor has a party with the music blaring till 3 AM? If they do it again I’ll address it.
        The HVAC is not blowing so cold? OK it needs Freon. Let’s get ‘er ✅ done!

        I don’t lose my shit anymore over small potatoes. I think that is an actual tremendous silver lining gained from losing a cheater.

        • This x1000

          My APR went up? OK I’ll refinance. My friends car breaks down? I can jump you off. A neighbor has a party with the music blaring till 3 AM? If they do it again I’ll address it.
          The HVAC is not blowing so cold? OK it needs Freon. Let’s get ‘er ✅ done!

          I don’t lose my shit anymore over small potatoes. I think that is an actual tremendous silver lining gained from losing a cheater.“

        • Thanks for the reminder, SLK. My marriage induced paralysis–I didn’t move out of fear of angering him; I didn’t move because the yard work was his job and he’d complain if I did it (not that he was doing it himself); I didn’t move because I was waiting for things to get better, etc. etc. etc.

          I sometimes have bad moments and cry over spilled milk when I’m too tired or it’s the seventh time the damn glass has tipped over in one day. But most of the time, I shrug the small stuff off. (For awhile I had a real jerk of a colleague trying to intimidate me, and every time he sent a hostile email or tried to embarrass me in a meeting, I’d just keep moving forward and think to myself, “Ted, you have no idea what you are up against. I survived over a decade with a violent, angry, narcissist. Your snotty and patronizing bullshit doesn’t even register on the radar.” It was one of the first times I really understood how much divorcing had unleashed my natural strength.)

          I am a mover and shaker now. I have confidence in my own competence again.

          • Preach! I know I am strong (and people reinforce that message to me regularly). What gives me even more solace is that a) I am a good person – my character would never allow me to treat another human the way he treated me, b) I am “home” for those kids and eventually they will all come to know “my truth” and c) I am likely resilient beyond imagination now.

            • not so fast there “KIBBLED AGAIN” as soon as those 2 fuckwits have to live in the real world , they will be cheating on each other ……

          • Love this Eilony. I’ve changed an electrical outlet, pained my woodwork, kitchen and just tiled my kitchen floor.

            As I prepared the floor my son looked on in shock as I measured, scored and karate chopped the tile. It’s done. Finished it last weekend.

            I’ve gutted rooms and power washed an entire house. I built a patio out of 100 year old chimney bricks. I’m planting a garden this weekend.

            The Limited stunted my growth; everything was a waiting game.

            My house was never a home. Now it is as I depend on no one.

            As far as wasted years? It’s a sellers market (equity) and a heftier retirement/401k. No job skills, get alimoney. Make.Them.Pay.

        • Excellent post, SLK. Yes, the small hassles of life are put in their proper perspective after infidelity, and we become more adept at handling them without the weight of a fuckwit.

          However, there are areas of my life that are richer now (all of my friends now, to a one, have high integrity), and aspects of my value system & personality that have been enhanced by living through trauma. I’m not sure any of those changes would have happened to the same extent without a divorce (and the reason for it).

          • Tempest and SLK,
            Yes to everything! I so look forward to “stopping to smell the roses”!

        • Thank you for this reminder! Nothing disturbs my peace of mind… I am going to stay true to the course of chill, cause I’ve seen it all!

      • You are right. It wasn’t years wasted. Other people, including myself, will still benefit from all of the ways I improved myself in order to please ex. He wasn’t impressed, but most other people will be.

      • I am trying my best to be “grey rock”. Last night I wanted to text but two words to him: “I know”. But I didn’t because I didn’t want the drama, lies, blameshifting to be piled on anew (I am the only one who keeps getting hurt here).

        And I still have to assess the communication to my children – my 15 year old son will likely just roll his eyes because he thinks his dad is an ass. I don’t know that the 12 year old daughter will deal with it well – I think this might really hurt her (but my ex won’t care because won’t it be so great if AP can go grab sushi with them now?). And my 9 year old – the one with the challenges? Well she’s pretty emotionally immature – she just appreciates the fact that Daddy finally has time for her (“we can go swimming on Fridays on “sleepover” night”). But who’s to say what Daddy’s schedule will look like if he all of a sudden has three potential stepchildren to woo? Believe me though, if they are introduced a mere 3 1/2 months after our split, I will be appropriately communicating who she is – no relationship moves that fast (but hey this is their second go-round!).

        • Wish I would have seen this earlier. Just started trying to go grey rock with my STBX wife w/ uBPD. Text convo that started about the kids and I reacted and called her out on her lazy, lying, cheating self. Hopefully I’ll do better after she moves out Saturday. I just realized half my life (18 years) was basically a lie in the last week. Nothing makes sense, except that cheaters suck.

          • Gray rock/modified no contact isn’t easy especially in the early days when you and the kids don’t have the two household routine down yet and your heart is still raw. I’m years out and broke my string of NC after I opened an attorney invoice for ex’s current round of post decree legal crap. Hang in there YSS. You get an infinite number of do-overs in this game. Just really try to not document your feelings anywhere but here.

    • Tell the kids. They have a right to know. They will likely find out eventually anyway and if they don’t it will drive you crazy that they are meeting this woman with no idea that she played an active role in the break up of your family.

    • The “trophy”is accurate, weather it’s the high school prom queen or the cute girl at work. Whatever strokes the ego. Wherever the attention comes from. The idealization starts and the seduction. It’s then a one way street that they have no boundaries in. My ex husband did it twice with two 10year marriages. They just don’t care who they are involving in the charade. They don’t care that it’s a persons life. YOU have to care that it’s your life and get away from this disordered person. They will never be what you need.

      • No problem here. He is no prize and neither is she. As CL would opine, at least these two narcissistic cheaters have each other – that’s two less disordered people for us chumps to worry about.

        • not so fast there “KIBBLED AGAIN” as soon as those 2 fuckwits have to live in the real world , they will be cheating on each other ……

    • I would also like to think that. But we all really know, there’s no point. Like teaching a fish how to knit! But we can have fun pretending! The further you get away from this, the more sense it makes!

    • Kibbled – I feel like we are affair dopplegangers . . . our stories have so many similarities.

      I had two conversations with the OW’s husband, one prior to DDay and one following. My bullshit meter was working pretty well, and I caught on to what the fuckwits were up to quickly. [Let me say that my ex had been having issues for about 6 months prior to the affair, and had exhibited a serious personality change. He’s a first responder, and I think he was suffering from PTSD – I suggested as much to him and that he needed counseling. Apparently only pussies go to counseling . . . even though it’s offered on the job. His narc rages began in earnest then, when I apparently bruised his ego and suggested he was less of a MAN. He began talking about how everyone was out to get him, and people were setting him up at work . . . breaking into his locker and taking/leaving things (when it’s locked & no sign of forced entry). He didn’t get another job at a different department because people were blackballing him, setting him up. Major paranoia set in and the gaslighting hit an all time high. So I was watching him like a hawk, thinking he was losing his marbles. Which he was, but then the whore came along and made him feel all sparkly and manly. But I digress . . . ]

      Initially her husband thought I was being a bit over the top (I had told mutual friends that there was something really bizarre and inappropriate going on between the herpes humpers, so she was already getting backlash from other moms at the school). The husband was upset that his skank was getting backlash when he was sure nothing was going on. Ummmmmmmm, okay . . . the whole thing escalated so QUICKLY it still blows my mind. While I caught on very quickly to their affair, he was in complete denial. I had contacted him to let him know that my 8 year old told me something wasn’t right between them – so he came home from work early and surprised the 2 fuckwits at the new house he and skank had just bought and he had spent months remodeling. He called me immediately following that night, I think to decompress, share his disbelief and grief, and tell me to get tested because she had herpes. [which I did, and I am clean!!] The discovery of the affair propelled me to move forward with a divorce at full throttle, but he seemed to be defeated by it. He and his ex had met in rehab (yep, she is such a sparkly skank, drug and alcohol rehab!! AND std’s!! Fuckwit hit the JACKPOT!!). Upon confronting the whores at HIS house, he allegedly threatened to kill them, then packed a bag and went to a hotel. My sparkledick flew into a rage (big surprise), puffed up his chest, came home to grab some essentials and his gun collection to protect his skank and her kids. Most people with common sense would have called the cops and reported a man in his home with guns. But not this guy, he completely folded in on himself. Fast forward through the divorce proceedings – he allowed my STBX to remain living in his house, kept his name on the mortgage because fuckwit had stopped paying my mortgage, shut off utilities and screwed his own credit, so he couldn’t buy their house. Her husband had to move in with his mother for several years because of all of this . . . my ex STILL can’t buy the house, and her ex hasn’t required a refinance and we are going on 5 years since DDay. But at least he finally moved out of his mother’s house. I’m sure he considered his actions to be in the best interest of his children, and I get that. To a point. His kids are lunatics, the one is seriously a psychopath. I have taken that kid to court twice for violence against my son (they are the same age, they were friends before all of this, which I’m sure doesn’t help the situation at all). I have a court order keeping her boys away from my boys until they are 18. GETTING TO MY POINT: conversations with the AP’s spouse aren’t going to help your recovery. Yes, they are living a nightmare, and it’s nice to commisserate with someone who understands your paint intimately, but in the long run it brings about so much more pain. Discovering the timeline is important yet feels like being eviscerated. Sparkledick and I were on a family vacation (he was committed to our marriage!! He was working to make it BETTER!!) when all of a sudden he told me that he didn’t want to waste any more time with me, he didn’t love me, he wasn’t wasting anymore of his life with me. I was absolutely devastated. I started sobbing in the restaurant (because we were on a date) and I just remember how embarassed and disgusted he was with me. Turns out skank had the same conversation with her husband that exact day, and had made the decision to leave him. That was like a hot knife through the gut when I put that together. In the beginning the pain is so incredible that pouring acid-coated information all over it doesn’t really make much of a difference. But as you begin to distance yourself from it, to focus on you and your kids and move forward with your reality, those glimpses into the past can put you in a tailspin. Just my experience with skanks ex. I run into him from time to time, it’s incredibly akward, but we don’t talk much. He continues to enable my ex husband, and allows his children to be abused by a man who is absolutely mentally ill. I have gone no contact with all of them. Discovering all of the disgusting tidbits of their illicit relationship isn’t going to make your life different, it’s just going to get you stuck in the much and mire of their fucked up world.

      By the way, I just came up with herpes humpers and I LOVE it!! I will always refer to them that way from now on.

      • It’s too bad the other chump continues to enable this behaviour. I have called lawyers this morning to set my course for financial freedom. And I have reconciled myself to the fact that no matter how sparkly I could’ve made myself, I wasn’t the elusive high school love. He was destined to fulfill that dream of his no matter how much I contorted myself. I did not need to know who AP was but knowing it further ratifies that I did my best but my best never mattered.

        • It’s exactly that – your best NEVER MATTERED. I’m glad you called lawyers, make sure you get a good one. Hopefully your fuckwit will be in a hurry to get the marriage over so he can move on with his unrequited schmoopie love. That’s always the consideration with lawyers, but I told my attorney from the get go that this was going to be bad and long and expensive. He didn’t believe me . . . my divorce was finalized this past September and DDay was July 2013.

          BTW, herpes humpers had the kids all together on day 1 (they actually involved the kids during the “courting” stage of their affair, having play dates so they could oogle eachother). Devastating for my children, and fuckwit gave up custody of his boys (thank you GOD) and says that OW’s kids are his own. Tells everyone he is their father, and always says he has 4 sons. So they have been “replaced” by their own father. It’s been a nightmare for my boys, but they have an amazing counselor and he has helped them through so much of the trauma and grief. Get your kids in therapy if they are old enough. It also helped immensely in court. The court followed the counselor’s suggestions pertaining to visitation and not having the OWhore around my boys to help them adjust/cope.

    • Your awesome Kibbled again and you can hijack the conversation anytime! I love Chump Nation!????

    • Sorry to say this, and it may have already been said but I haven’t bothered to read below. Unfortunately I think the ‘bonding’ renovation projects were probably part of his plan to make the house saleable and thus smooth his exit as he slipped out on a trail of his own slime. So sorry for your situation. He’s an asshole.

  • I will never, ever understand how these people can operate like this…and then return home to their spouses. Spending marital money while the chump is continuing in her economizing ways. Yes, trust that they suck, but, I am left wondering, is it still fun when they are no longer cheating? Are they HAPPY now?

    • That was me. Economizing ways while he spent money like crazy. His mom was always telling me to go buy me some new clothes and treat myself. He said we had to spend money on his tools for work so he could make money. I was such a fool.

      NotMyFault – I don’t think it’s fun when they are no longer cheating. The thrill of sneaking and pushing boundaries is where it’s all at. Now that my stbx is in a home with coworker and their one year old baby I hear he’s yelling at her. My daughter was on a camping trip with them and she said they were fighting really bad. What’s so ironic is we were camping in that same spot 3 years ago and he was sneaking away to call her. Three years later they are in our camping spot fighting.

      • Just fucking perfect. What a disloyal fucktard.
        Sorry you had to go through this.
        A TRUE MALCONTENT. A real catch!

    • I can answer that mine is stretched to the limits, two affair partners right in front of me, NO hiding. He’s broker than broke and the bank calls regular looking for money

    • I’ve whipped up an invoice for OW. Included in it is 50% of our shared money spent to enable and subsequently fund the affair. (Alas I can only come up with a rough estimate). Also included in the invoice is half of my medical expenses accrued during my stint at the hospital for an accute asthma attack brought on by stress directly caused by their indescretions. I was pregnant at the time, so that also includes a stress test and ultrasound. Speaking of pregnancy, my charges also include the suture repair needed from lifting my toddler into the car only a few days after my c section because instead of estranged husband spending his paternity leave caring for me, the mother of his newborn baby girl, he used his time to be with OW.
      Lastly, I included 1/2 of the cost of all the therapy, psychiatric care and medications needed to cope with the CPTSD that was triggered by my husband’s abandonment.
      Maybe it should include whatever lost wages will result from her filing a sexual harassment claim to avoid getting fired. My husband absolutely deserved the karma of losing his job (and in about two months, his family, shhhh) but we all have to suffer the consequences of what this cunt is partially responsible for.
      To that I say- fuck my husband and the whore he rode in on.
      Freedom is just around the corner!!!

      • (((((FedUpChump))))
        “Freedom is just around the corner”

        I know it has been very very difficult for you. I follow your posts.
        Good for you.
        I am so proud of you.
        Stay strong for you and your little ones.
        So good to hear of your positive progress.
        YOU are Mighty!
        Never forget that!


  • IMO (or at least in my life), part of changing the narrative on infidelity is calling these people out when you see this kind of shit. I’ve done it before, but will admit that they were people I already knew. I draw a hard and permanent line with infidelity. If I see it, if I hear about it, I will NOT be phony to your face. I will tell you just exactly how much you suck, and then I will cut you from my life. I’ve done that before, several times (because, unfortunately, several friends had affairs AFTER my ex implode my life … to the point that I felt like I did something to make people think his actions were ok. Like crying every day, not being able to breathe from all the anxiety, living in constant fear of crazy, having no $$, not knowing where we were going to live, silly stuff like that ????). I don’t think I would have an issue telling a total stranger, but then again I’ve never had this happen. I think that if I overheard this conversation I would be staring at the fuckwits in gaping disbelief, which they would notice and then confront me. Segue into the “you really suck” conversation. At least that’s how I see it happening in my head. I’m sure the response would be rife with justification & how you DON’T KNOW how absolutely horrid their spouses are. They had no choice, they are so unhappy (see Stupid Shit Cheaters Say). You know, the usual. I hope that I never have this happen to me (because I like to think that infidelity isn’t that common – but we all know that’s not true). However, if I do run across this, I’ll have to let you know if I actually have the courage to say something. It’s always easy to think how you would respond “IF” it ever happened!!

  • Ah yes, the likely knowing mother-in-law. I know that one. Weirdo cheater wife family can spend eternity in Hell together.

  • When I was in my 20s I attended a professional conference in Phoenix with a married colleague who wound up hooking up with a very attractive attendee. I asked all kinds of questions (morbid curiosity) and kept thinking “This just isn’t right” but never called him out.

    About a year later, he gave a speech at a dinner which concluded with a big “thank you so much for your support” to his wife, whom I was meeting for the first time and who was sitting at my table. Amid the applause, he looked right at her and said, “I love you, darling.”

    That was my first practical exposure to the horrifically low moral and ethical character we discuss here each day, and I remember thinking at the time: “if I do anything right for the rest of my life, it will be to not associate with anyone who who so casually do that to someone they profess to love.”

    And then I married one.

    • Yikes! … and you knew that speaking up would do nothing good! There in lies the frustrating part of being chumps, even if observers think it’s wrong, few would ever utter the words!

      We have a couple very public cheaters in town, and I avoid them like the plague. Our community seems to have embraced the situation. When I hear people talking about them being “good people” it makes me want to vomit! My opinion isn’t popular so I’ve stopped professing it (this was actually BEFORE my own dealings with cheater fallout).

      It’s funny that someone can be cheating on their spouse for 10 years and that’s overlooked, but if you disparage cheating you are looked at as the “bad guy.” God forbid you make anyone think past the surface pleasantries of life and spoil their happy.

      • So many people overlooked Bill Clinton’s philandering. He was very popular among women voters? Why?

        • And his wife demonized anyone who spoke out about his behavior … and people still voted for him.

        • I mean … even here, the letter sure wasn’t to Douche’s wife. I think there is something societal where men and women are a lot more likely to let a man know if his wife is cheating. It’s not like anyone was lining up to tell me about my ex cheating while I was home with an infant and cancer. And he wasn’t the only cheating husband in the group by far and no one told the other wives either. (There was a lot of gossip about one of the very pretty younger wives in the group – she was flirty but never cheated that anyone knew of. Not that it mattered – half the women would have descended on her with the fury of a thousand suns if she had.)

          Half of my supposed girl friends were lining up dates for my physically violent, emotionally abusive, chronic cheater ex before our divorce was final. I got one call from our former realtor to say he supported both of us … probably in hopes of selling the marital residence.

        • Part of the reason why Bill Clinton got away with it was his wife. She should have kicked his ass. While he was president. Oh what a different world we would have now. She condoned cheating.

          For one difference, she might have been elected president. Another: we might not have such an epidemic of cheating.

      • Hey!! My boss is a cheater, serial, Don Juan cheater — yes!!! With the mommies of our students!!! (He’s a principal at a school.)

        I’m consulting with a few well-chosen people on how best to talk with him about this. Any suggestions?

        Here’s something to work with: “We don’t want our students thinking it’s okay to cheat.”

        Also, is he waiting a scene for violence at the school?

  • I hope they divorced their spouses, married one another, then both cheated on each other & gave each other herpes.

    And they lived unhappily ever after.

    Their chumps skipped the STD buffet, live mostly happy healthy lives and are relieved to be shot of their cheating spouses. Ooh, can I hope for winning at least a hundred thousand in a lottery AFTER the divorce papers were signed? And setting up a trust BEFORE signing the ticket so the fuckwits never found out about the money?

  • “Well, I love you too… but it’s complicated.”

    Code for: I like sleeping with you, but I like sleeping with my spouse AND you.

    “There are economics involved.”

    Code for: I’m going to lose my ass in a divorce, so please just drop the relationship talk and let’s go upstairs.

  • I had a similar experience on a Carnival Cruise. I was in the hot tub and a woman was making out with a douche she just met, I actually heard them say “I am so glad I met you”. She was talking about her kids and her home in Dallas in between the kissing and flirting. She had a nice wedding ring on as well. I wish I had the guts to say something like “I think your wedding ring is really nice” but I didn’t. So, I am sorry to Crisslynn’s husband that I didn’t stick up for him.

  • I’ve often wondered about what VSTBXW and AP2 did together. She worked 2 jobs before discovery and was able to conduct affairs under cover of travel times and stopping at Walmart, the gym, etc.,etc. I honestly don’t know where she found the energy to do it all. Hidden meth addiction? Not likely.

    In hindsight, I picture this scene playing out at a pizza joint I know she hooked up at with AP2. She was ready to leave me at that point and who knows how much of a head start she had. In a later convo where they discussed what made up a good salad, not having enough room in his truck, risking getting caught in the parking lot and directions on how to get to his camper for another hookup. Labor Day was their full on fuckfest 4 day weekend. Her entitlement was blazing before leaving me for her fabulous weekend.

    After that mindfuck I went hopium comatose. She moved out within a week or two after I quarantined her to a separate bedroom. She’s been gone since. D paperwork is a work in progress.
    She texted me several weeks ago…”I did you wrong would you take me back”? Crickets. Then same text 50 mins later then silence. Fortunately, I was in my martial arts class and we had to clean the dojo so I didn’t see the texts until after they were sent. “ YOU’VE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME”! was my first thought. The hopium residuals were still circulating in my blood stream, but at such low levels they could no longer overwhelm me. NC IS the Narcac to hopium.

    So the worm is starting to turn me thinks. I, like all chumps would like to KNOW what difficulties WW is having just to know some sort of justice exists and, for the revengeful pride swelling experience-short lived as it may be.

    Let Karma & Consequences Reign (RAIN). And when it rains, Please GOD let it pour.

    • Try to get that divorced signed as quick as possible. They don’t like consequences- its been 5 months says I started divorce proceedings and my cheater wife keeps finding new things wrong with decree and refuses to sign- I should have taken her to court instead of mediation. Lesson learned. If she no longer has her AP outlet she will keep “working on you” to take her back. Keep ignoring those texts- don’t get involved in any convos with her- just walk away and get away. Good luck.

      • DO NOT MEDIATE WITH THE DISORDERED! (warning to all of those in the midst of settlement negotiations). It never works, and they drag out the process. Consequences–spreadsheets dividing the assets equally in community property states, contempt orders for not fulfilling disclosure, court dates–these are things that the disordered understand.

        • And, perhaps more significantly the things the court understands. Great points, T.

  • The fact that cheaters can converse on the phone with their children while out with the affair partner disturbs me to no end.

    After D-day one, while I was pick me dancing for 4 years, one of cheaters arguments was, “My cheating has nothing to do with our children. This is about our marriage”

    Hmmm…. so “bad marriages” aren’t good for children (i.e. it affects their lives) BUT cheating on the marriage has nothing to do with children?

    I love the convenience of cheater logic (a.k.a. Compartmentalizations), it has an amazing way of separating out those things they don’t want to admit to; like yes, you are cheating on your children by cheating on their parent, which affects their family!

    It’s like trying to separate the eggs out of a cake that has already been baked – it’s just not fucking possible!

    Let’s list things that cheating affects in children’s lives

    Financial security: “Sorry your siblings were gifted Mac books for 8th grade graduation, but since we have 2 homes to support now, you get this amazing cup cake”

    A stable and unchanging place to land: “Sorry you had a bad day honey, hurry up and pack, it’s time to go to your dads, and you know how angry he’ll be if you show up late”

    Friendships: “I’m sorry you want to go stay at Sally’s tonight, but her parents no longer talk to me. I can’t let you go stay somewhere when I can’t communicate with the parents.” If cheaters don’t think their children will suffer from their prostitute fucking habit, think again!

    Family: “Yes sweetie, I know we always had a big thanksgiving, but since daddy’s family will be at daddy’s house, they aren’t coming here for thanksgiving. That tradition has been cancelled”

    Social stigma: “Jane told me at school today that she heard her parents saying you and daddy “are getting a divorce because daddy cheated, and you are angry and bitter.”

    So any cheater who wants to say their cheating doesn’t have anything to do with their children is seriously fucking delusional!

    Of course chumps do our best to be mighty and create new normals for our children, but that doesn’t change the loss our children suffer.

    • One more, sorry that you found out that your father is an adulterer, compulsive gambler, thief and a Sociopath. Sorry that you had to find out at 32 and 34 that I did all this to your mother. Sorry that you really don’t know where I live. Sorry that I have never sat down alone with you and your brother to explain what I did. But it really has nothing to do with you (translated as now you know how little I care about you.)

      • If there is one thing I have learned absolutely from being on this website for 5 years is….The children suffer the most! I don’t have kids but the stories I’ve read here are heartbreaking. This is the message our society needs drilled into their heads. You don’t just get to fuck up a marriage and family up just because you think some chick (or stud) is better than your spouse. This, in itself, should be illegal to do to children, who are NOT resilient at all. Maybe that kind of law would help to give these fuckwits some morals (ha) or to think twice before they stick it where it doesn’t belong.

    • That is just it. When you have an affair you are cheating on the whole family as time, attention and usually $ are being expended on an outsider. Some then discard both the spouse and the kids outright in favor of some Schmoopie. Those that try not to discard the kids along with the spouse only half succeed at that. The kids lives are still affected in all of the ways you describe above.

    • My cheater wife actually introduced our daughter to the AP while the affair was going on and I didn’t know about it yet. These people have zero boundaries or morals. They get a weird high off of stuff like that. It’s like a weirdo secret triangulation.

      • Oh crap! Exactly the same here Zell. We argued about that today. She literally told me there was nothing wrong with what she did (the AP stayed with her and my daughters on their vacation last summer before I knew) and that he’s a “nice guy” and would never do anything to our young daughters (not from what I’ve heard). You can add clueless & delusional to the complete lack of morals & boundaries.

      • Zell: same happened to me too. She brought the kids to the beach for a jog, and then introduced her “coworker and friend” to my 2 teens. I would later find out that the douche asked my daughter what kind of car she wanted, and that he could get her something better. These cheaters will get theirs one day, and that day can’t come soon enough.

        • I think they’re also trying to premeditate the situation with the kids by casually introducing the lover…as if they’ve been part of her pals. You know, to ease the shock of when she/he enters the kids’ lives. Oh yes, they will have their day.

    • Of course my cheating ex fucks his affair partners in our family home! It’s SICK but in Canada of course NO LAWS against it!

  • I don’t have daydreams about confronting cheaters, but I do have daydreams about comforting other chumps. I imagine discovering an old friend who has just become a chump and helping her to recognize her own self worth and the worthlessness of her cheater. I imagine being there to support her unconditionally because I know the truth about infidelity and only someone who has been through it can really understand. I imagine being angry on her behalf when she can’t do it herself. It is so important to have somebody in your corner who will help you recognize your self worth when you have just been discarded by someone you thought loved you and is listing every minor fault you have and every major fault you don’t have as his reason for doing so. I was very fortunate to have so many people validate me in those early days. That is really what saved me from completely falling to pieces. On the one hand, I don’t want anyone I know to have to go through this, but if they do, I want to pay forward all of the support I have received from others both in person and from Chump Nation.

    • I sometimes think a few thoughts about the Switzerland friends, who when they get discarded, laying upside, legs in the air, like a bug, and come crying to me and how I’ll laugh in their faces.

  • I don’t know if I would ever have the courage to confront cheaters as I would probably just come off as sounding foolish and end up making a scene and embarrassing our kids. I do find myself not liking and wanting to disassociate myself from people I suspect of cheating whether or not I have any proof at all.

    The scout master for my son’s former cub scout troop is one of them. He was very active in the scouts even before he became scout master having been the popcorn kernel for years. He was adventuresome and always participated in the events with the kids whether it was crawling through caves or jumping on trampolines. Everybody thought he was so great, so active and fun loving, such a great dad. I noticed, however, that he never wore his wedding ring and he was always dismissive of his wife. I saw her at a couple of events and she looked traumatized while putting on a smile and pretend I am fine face. She looked like I did after DDay. She was attractive and seemed to be doing her best to support her husband’s activeness in the boy scouts. She didn’t strike me as someone worthy of being disregarded the way her husband seemed to disregard her. I never spoke to her about it as I hardly knew her and I would not have known how to start that conversation. There are plenty of other reasons why she might have looked distraught and/or distracted through a fake smile. I noticed all of this during the year after DDay when I was still dealing with my own trauma. Maybe I just read too much into it all. I have no proof beyond what I just described, but I just got that cheater vibe from him and I didn’t like him very much. If nothing else, he isn’t nice to his wife. It is a quiet dislike though which has never been openly expressed. My son has moved on to boy scouts and I never see either of them anymore. I don’t know if they are still together or if his wife still has that traumatized look about her but if he is a cheater, I hope she found chump lady and her mightiness.

    I suppose I should allow for the possibility that she was the cheater who was trying to be a unicorn and the husband wasn’t buying it but didn’t want to break up his family. Things are not always as they appear. It’s just something about his attitude, however, that struck me as similar to ex.

  • CL,
    I am so sorry your dinner was ruined by these fuckwits.
    So disgusting, especially for the tiny child.

    My cheater never had time to call our little girl.
    He probably did take OW to fancy restaurants, but I think for them it was mostly take out pizza orders to her place. They could fit in more fucking between slices!

    I hope Josh finds out soon and finds CL, CN.

    • no no….please remove that post. It is an entirely different subject and I don’t recommend the readers here to look at it if you’re not ready to see what is there. Sorry.

  • I don’t get it. There are so many things to do in life other than cheating. God..take a class, write a book, read a book or save the gay whales for Jesus. Something constructive. Do cheaters lay on their death beds and wish they had cheated more?

    How dare they waste our chumpy time on their drama and bull shit! We got better things to do.
    Just sayin 🙂

    • I agree with everything you said but:

      “Do cheaters lay on their death beds and wish they had cheated more? ” Apparently mine felt that way before he cheated. He regretted that his first emotional affair had not gone physical. If he hadn’t gotten around to the physical affairs, he might in fact have regretted it on his death bed. He doesn’t seem to regret having cheated now.

      Who knows how he’ll feel on his death bed at this point. These people don’t think like we do.

  • D finalized yesterday. Done and Done. Onto other things; a better life.

    I do wish I seized the windows of opportunities I once had; to tell the kids (feels wrong right now) and -to the point of today’s posting – tell the AP’s wife whom I don’t know.

    I fantasize about sending something anonymous to her. I feel sorry for her.

    But why throw something out into the world I can’t control?
    Its likely to slow down my journey to Meh which I’m quite enjoying.

  • The problem with interrupting the cheating couple, or even contacting the spouse of the cheating other if you discover a spouse is cheating is it is hard to assess the level of crazy with people you know, much less strangers. I can remember when I found out about the cheating the first time. I didn’t want to believe it, either. I didn’t dismiss it, but I had to join the marriage police and investigate and CONVINCE MYSELF that it was what I thought, and SO MUCH WORSE. I remember trying to blame OW. Many of the OW did deserve a big dose of blame, but when it comes right down to it, cheating spouse is clearly the one who made the choice and cheated on me. So he will always be first in line for the blame, as far as I am concerned. I may not be perfect, but none of my imperfections as a human made him choose to cheat. The imperfection is inside the cheater, and no one can convince them that what they did was wrong, no defense. They will forever forgive themselves, while holding you and anyone else in the world they blame for their problems, forever guilty. They will rationalize their choices forever. Even if they produce a faux apology because they have some other self-serving agenda which needs your cooperation — they do not believe that they did not have justification for cheating. They are only sorry that there are consequences they do not like. Those pesky economic considerations which make life “complicated.”

    Even when the evidence is abundant, and public, a chump will find a way not to believe it. When I first heard about Bill Cosby I didn’t want to believe it — I loved his comedy and watched his TV shows. It was awful. But he has been convicted, not just based on abundant testimony, but also his own words in deposition. Today I read a story that says his wife believes he is a victim of “mob justice.” REALLY???? He may be old and blind and have had difficulties in life — but he has FINALLY been found guilty, and should receive justice. What kind of justice are all of his victims going to receive?

    I have a hard time understanding that so many people live in a world where right and wrong are of no consideration. Even legal and illegal have to be argued — how did you acquire the evidence, do you have the right to prosecute, is anyone actually above the law, who can pardon, or be pardoned, who has the authority to say that we must believe something which is not true? It amazes me that so many people prefer to live in Denial. I understand the urge to visit Denial — but after you find out what living in Denial is like, shouldn’t a sane person want to leave?

    All I can say is be careful when you tell someone a cold hard truth. That old adage about killing the messenger is a distinct possibility.,

  • I love how serious and Harlequin Romance-y they all are.
    Life is about paths and roads and things happening for reasons, and blah blah bullshit and salmon apparently.

    • “Life is about paths and roads and things happening for reasons, and blah blah bullshit and salmon apparently.” This needs to be on a coffee mug.

  • I hate to admit it but I had always been the type of person who thought “Well its not really my business and getting involved could ruin someone’s marriage!” Not anymore, if I knew what I was talking about, 100% sure I had the proof I would definitely tell the injured spouse/partner. When you can see it from a Chumps perspective theres no longer a marriage to ruin. Cheater McCheat Butt already ruined it!

    • Before, I wouldn’t have considered it any of my business, but now, you’re darn right I would tell. With the Internet, it is surprisingly easy to figure out who the other chump is and contact them. Imagine my surprise when I found out, not only had the Douchebag cheated on me repeatedly over many years, but he had also caused two divorces that I hadn’t even known about. I guess I had been too busy working full time and child-rearing to play marriage police. But it’s embarrassing to find out you were that clueless. When I asked the APs’ ex-husbands why it hadn’t occurred to them to SPEAK UP, each one said, “I didn’t think it was my place to tell you.” Didn’t think it was their place. But I’ll bet they would have wanted to know if the tables were turned. When I found out about the third AP after poring over our phone records (“I’m warning you! There’s nothing going on! They’re happily married!” DB claimed) I took a picture of a page of our phone bill and sent it to that AP’s husband, for him to use (or not) as he saw fit.

  • I’m so over her, but I won’t lie…I am pissed at the times she was “texting work” or her mind was elsewhere, when she should have been spending “quality time” w/her family. Oh well, selfish people say they love their family, but in reality think only of themselves.

    I’d love to have you draft other similar stories like this. Keep up the good work.

    • Cheated on I know exactly mine used my kids as weapon, he’s a sick fuck but I’m moving forward and dating again! I
      determined to have a great life without him!????????????????????????????????????????

  • I detest the term ‘in love’ because it is used to justify so much abuse and selfish behaviour in this world. And it’s also used as an reason for some people tolerating the most horrible treatment. “But I love him/her.”

  • This could have been my STBXW last night (Thursday night). I found out yesterday when dropping my youngest off at care that her sister was doing the pick-up (and presumably looking after them for much of the evening). No idea why, as she was kid-free Wednesday night and also tonight (Friday). But oh well.

  • This scenario reminds me of a couple of old country songs by Lorrie Morgan that I still like:

    “I Guess You Had to Be There” perfect song of the Josh scenario

    “Good as I Was to You” again perfect for Josh scenario
    Google/YouTube search them.
    For me, exh2 has Instagram and Facebook accounts that I had no clue about, but was friends with all my friends and apparently he was posting shit for months before D-Day. Even my mom (that I have no contact with) knew he was up to something.
    Only one friend reached out to me and asked me if everything was ok with us, but didn’t come right out and say he was posting things on social media. If she had, I would have have been more proactive. Three years later now and I’m better off, but still pissed that not even my messiest, nosiest, shit-stirring-est friends didn’t tip me off to what he was doing…
    Anyway, makes me more ready to spring into action now when I get that cheater-hook-up-vibe around me.

  • CL Karma Service. We care for your karm! Text: “ohshit anotherone” to 555-277-4653 (555- Ass-hole), and a caped CN crusader in the region will be alerted via illuminated twhhat signal, to promptly attend to the matter at hand discretely.

    text/service rates apply.

  • If it wasn’t for Tracy’s website (many thanks-you are a life saver !), I wouldn’t have a page to print out and mail off to people on the path to a “fuckwit free” life. Anonymously. A lot of people just don’t get it unless they lived it or witnessed it up close (children of the cheater/chump combo)

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