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Stupid Shit That People Say to Chumps

People say a lot of stupid, insensitive things to chumps. It’s everything from the grossly mistaken — “Gee, the affair partner doesn’t seem all that bad!” To the dunderheaded smugness of, “I’m so glad my husband would never cheat on me.” (Bully for you.)

Chumps, being pretty nice people, are usually taken completely off guard. Did you really just say that? To help you identify Stupid Shit Other People Say, I’ve broken it down into a few categories.

1. Your Misfortune Is Very Threatening to Me. See “dunderheaded smugness” above. If a comment seems oddly competitive — “I’m so lucky that my biggest marital crisis was my husband buying a Trans Am!” — you can rest assured that this person is deeply freaked out by you. So let’s heartily avow that Bad Things could never, ever happen to them. Why did a bad thing happen to you? Well, because you brought it on yourself. And in that respect, we’re very, very different people. Unless we’re not. In which case your misfortune may be contagious, so I’m going to avoid you entirely in any case to make sure I don’t catch it.

2. You’re Doing It All Wrong. You know what you need right now? Someone yelling at you from the sidelines of your life. “You should wait 6 months before you make a decision. You didn’t wait 6 months? OMG! Everyone knows you have to wait 6 months!” Chances are this person has never experienced your particular calamity, but they are well versed in exactly how you are fucking this up. You really should thank them. No? What’s wrong with you?

3. Damning with Faint Comparisons. Let’s say you share that your wife cheated on you with 15 men she met on Craigslist. This is the person formerly-known-as-your-friend who replies, “Wow. That reminds me of like, when my car wouldn’t start. I thought it was the battery, but no, the whole alternator was bad. Cost me $700. Can you believe it?” No. No we cannot believe it.

4. Norman Vincent Unreal. “Think outside the box! Shift the paradigm! Breathe!” Are you feeling suicidal? Norman has exactly the right sunny cliche to make it all better. “Everything happens for a reason.” You can’t find a reason? “Every cloud has a silver lining!” Please God make him stop. “A smile is just a frown turned upside down!” “You’ll find someone when you least expect it!” “It’s always darkest before the dawn!”

So I’m curious — what sort of stupid shit did other people say to you? (Not including the cheater, of course, who has their own page of Stupid Shit entirely.)

This column ran previously. I’m in Australia! Upside down. That’s why my hair looks like that.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
    • Stupid shit?

      Pretty much anything our marriage counsellor said !

      “Just give them (ie ex + fuckbuddy) time and it will fizzle out” meanwhile you just take some pine and see if the coach needs you when his star player trades to another team

      Then when I later discovered sexting…

      “Oh, I don’t think that’s an affair…”

      Gaslighted by a therapist and my ex!!

    • I wish that people would stop saying that in general. How many times has something been said like, “He was so nice, quiet, and friendly!” about serial killers? We need to accept as a society that there are people out there who are very good at wearing the mask of the upstanding citizen but have ugly, secret lives.

        • ^^^To outsiders ex is charming, articulate, funny, the all American guy.^^^ I don’t know how many times I’ve been told how lucky I was to be married to such great guy. You two must laugh and have fun all the time.

          I only wish they could see what a great guy he is behind closed doors.

          • Exactly!! As I told our neighbors, the “great guy” you see twice a year at neighborhood functions is not the same person that the kids and I lived with on a daily basis.

            • My friend sent me the book “The 5 Types of People Who Can Ruin Your Life” by Bill Eddy. His work, Martha Stout’s “The Sociopath Next Door” and Gavin DeBeckers “The Gift of Fear” should be taught to all teenagers so we learn how to tecognize the 10% who are truly disordered and stay away from them. Not marry and procreate with them.

  • My sister, who was widowed after three years of marriage, said when my cheater husband left after 25 years and three kids, ‘Being widowed is much more painful than being cheated on.’ Being a total chump,I actually believed her until I found this site.

    • My friend whose husband died said the opposite to me: “At least I knew my husband really loved me and tried his hardest to stay with me; whereas yours couldn’t get away from you fast enough.” Charming either way 🙁

      • Just yesterday I was told by someone who lost her husband years ago that there aren’t any good men like him anywhere. Evidently, they no longer exist.

        I let her know my experience differed in that what I left was was so low thst pretty much much of the male population would be higher.

        I’m accused of being picky.

        My story remains the same whether he’s dead or alive. And yet today I celebrate the day exactly four years ago today I was told he’d found someone and wanted a divorce. While I worked through the week at my work location he was taking off sitting on a beach in Florida with her. I recently happened upon the pictures quite accidentally.

        I grieved the loss of myself. No one gets to rewrite his actions with a simple statement. NO.ONE.

        My divorce, the one I paid for (he represented himself) was finalized a year to the day I was told about his latest whore.

        Today I awake to my granddaughter singing after going to a music festival yesterday with her aunt. Three generations of strong women. That’s my legacy.

        • Yes, THIS I grieve the loss of myself…When the friend that introduced us said “Yep, he has a girlfriend” and “you must have really sucked in bed” I was F ing floored to say the least. She started the convo with he really loved you and by the end of the conversation she hung up and called back and said the above. What a bitch…and of course that was NOT it at all. But it made her obviously feel great that she got in her dig AND she obviously was on HIS side…just another person fooled by Him…and no wonder I have Post traumatic stress disorder…it’s comments like that !

          • She is obviously not your friend. Exile her from your life and surround yourself with loving friends who listen to you, hold you, protect you and help you get though the days, weeks. months and years of healing.

            • giddy eagle
              thank you for being so kind
              I dumped her immediately afterwards. First She told me how much he ‘loved me’ and how classy I was. Then when I mentioned the howorker she called back and made the horrible comment afterwards !

          • Cheating has nothing to do with sex. It’s alwasy about a lack of character, make or female.

            Those who skew out the better sex crap are cheaters or OW/OM. It’s what they say to justify.

            And for fucks sake that must be some motherfucker amazing sex worthy of blowing apart families. You’d think the OW would be making millions instead of giving it away.

            • doingme
              You are so right ! and it has nothing to do with sex! Is some nasty ho worker, that set up a non profit organization near my house, rented a beachhouse near my house 6 months after we were married and had two kids but had to rent a beachhouse and where is the men to her kids? So my point is, she must have been some good hooker ho down ho worker of a co worker to bowl my husband over. I mean she must have had some 14 gold diamond encrusted clam swinging chandelier sex with her weighed down baggage, with her no where to live self (I found out she was renting near my house to be next to my husband (our house) to make herself an easier fuck, (out of desperation) and she worked with him….Nah, she can’t be that good. It was because my narcissist husband had her making him ‘look good’ at work with her business that she conducted there and then she took it from boardroom to bedroom cuz she needed money. It was all about the money. She saw this great looking top executive and she knew his salary and she wanted what I had. The narly lying sneaky Ho

              • Duped, the down and out OW lived shitty lives and like cheaters they want easy; it’s a sport. Snag a guy who has what I want.

                Shallow as an empty pool.

                Which leads me to the other stupid shit people say; It won’t last.

                Well it’s just what every chump wants, to be put on a shelf like and old book.

                It does last and here’s why. It’s easier to stay than own shitty character. That narrative they use to justify their behavior was extensive. Secondly, it’s much more difficult to move to anyone with an ounce of class because healthy people don’t buy into the poor victim (cheater) when they are attached to a skank.

                If ever there’s one thing they counted on from us it was image management. OW don’t step up to that challenge.

                In the grand pecking order they get disorder. I’m hoping for a long union for the pure ‘hell’ of it.

          • Duped that’s awful. Some friend.
            I was listening to my friend going through a breakup, and told her a story about my heartbreak from a long time ago as sort of perspective as “you’ll get through it” When I checked on her a few days later, she said my “advice was bitter and that I should let her heal on her own.” She was the one who invited me into the conversation. WTF? Advice?

            • gooddeeds
              that was good advice you gave her. You were offering something positive to her that you were on her side, as you will get through it. I never heard words to that effect, instead I was robbed by my inlaws, disrespected, wiped the floors with. I wanted to say to them “this was not a divorce, need I remind you, he died” and I also should have said “rest assured that IF it had been a divorce, you sure as F would not be in possession of vehicles that were purchased with marital assets…..
              I am suffering mental anguish and PTSD not form them getting material things, but from them wiping the floor with me after his death. So, the shitty things that people say is not half as bad as what I experienced from the Actions of his family. I read this good article the other day, It was about flying monkeys (those things from the wizard of Oz, and what they call people that are instituted in the grand scheme of a narcissist) well, if that article did not pinpoint all the exact things that was done to me ! It was jawdropping textbook behavior. SO in other words I am still being tormented by the shady friends and in laws of my husband. And to make matters worse they have gotten away with it, able to go on with their lives with no shame in the game and don’t think I have even figured out that I know that they know about the Howorker and they actually have met her. I’m sure. Their actions were so transparent. Sad and heartbreaking. for me.

              • doingme
                the whore coworker had a beach rental 6 months after we were married. I ran an investigation on her of my own and I also found out that her predecessor at husbands job had had the same beachhouse addresss….not a coincidence. I believe he rented both places at different times for these whores. I believe that they are company ‘prostitutes’ as it were. Not bonafide street walkers, but company woman that are hired and became my narcissist husband’s slut. They of course wanted him,who wouldn’t, charming, successful, gorgeous super intelligent with so much to offer. But I Won’t forget how I was the wife and I did not deserve that deceit behind my back and did nothing to deserve that behavior. I was shocked to find this link of the same address. This Howorker that was with him the entire marriage (the second howorker) then was able to buy a very expensive beachhouse with a 2 year old and a 4 year old. No coincidence there ! Interesting…I think my husband had something to do with that and her success at his job. Still blows me away to this day. Still having a hard time getting to meh. Still shattered. I guess I was easily fooled and him and the howorker won!

      • Wow, Chumpful, just wow. I cannot even imagine the insensitivity that would cause someone to say that to you.

        • doingme
          No, ho was definitely keeping image management and secreted affair with my husband because she knew she could not blow that cover because she wanted him so bad. She was totally 100 percent immersed in trying to get him to leave me. She was working him over. He was taking her out on company tab pretending it was work related, on valentines night with another male that was a mutual friend. One whore and two guys out on valentines night. She was hell bent on keeping his image intact and hers. They were plotting and planning. Money was disappearing left and right. He was either having her hide it or he was just spending it on this whore. I worked really hard and basically he had all this free money to spend on whore because I made my own money. what a fool. She had a good thing going. SHe found a very handsome sucker that she was screwing for money and good times
          I believe it was her that killed him. She was running him ragged into the ground, he was getting older. The pressure was on. She wanted him to dump me for her. The image management was in full swing
          No, I don’t think it ‘won’t last” because he was in so deep with that clam that he felt he had to be with her rather than confess or tell me anything. Cuz that would be admitting and narcissists never admit. And it would last because that was the end of the road for him. Big whore at work, him getting closer to 60, she was not going to let that great catch go. It was not her first rodeo with married men for sure. So it would have had to last because I would never fight for someone that would screw that nasty bitch and have the nerve to put all that energy to image manage for some baggage ho with no integrity or class that she would screw a married man all these years.

      • chumpful
        your friend is a rotten bitch, And she does not know how many secrets that HER husband took to his grave….tell her that his dying was his only escape away from HER

      • I took it differently when my widowed friends said something like this to me. Maybe because the tone was different. They stated that my being mistreated for years and cruelly discarded after 29 years of marriage would be far tougher to recover from than their situation (a loving marriage and faithful husband who became ill and passed away), and they are supportive and have my back. I am grateful for them and for CL and all the wisdom I find here on CN.

    • I give widows a pass. Not fair to compare, but death of your spouse when you aren’t wishing it upon them, is bad. The bereaved get leeway from me and plenty of people say stupid shit to them too.

      Doesn’t mean they’re right or decent, just means that I am and I’m going to pick my battles on that one. They don’t know, and it sure isn’t a contest, God bless them.

      • …death of your spouse WHEN YOU AREN’T WISHING IT UPON THEM… — snort, open mouth, coffee all over the table! I know your intent with this post wasn’t to make us laugh, but thanks! cause I needed it A LOT today.

    • My neighbor who was suddenly widowed just a year ago (she’s a cheater and an abuser, told her late husband she was divorcing him…..and then…..drug overdose…???)

      Said, “It’s much better being a widow” (on the dating scene)

      appalling

    • That’s interesting because I have often thought and told my husband that death would’ve been easier than this. Also at a couples counseling session, when talking about the depth of pain from betrayal I said that it was like a death but without a funeral.

      • blindsided
        i’m here to to tell you that death is NOT easier, because you find out that you Lost your own life to the betrayal and wasted years, coupled with finding out about the big howorker at the same time he dies…and then you get to mourn like I said, the loss of your Own life, plus the betrayal, plus his death….and then in a way to sort out all the confusion and trauma that it’s caused you, you rationalize to yourself by thinking…the death stopped the ho from screwing him anymore…so karma was served, but that does not make it any easier…because you still have mixed feelings/ the ‘love of your life’ is dead but he had a double life…so now what…he died…there was a ho in the shadows…but that does not make you feel any better that he died…all at the same time ! And despite the death you are still left to feel the pain of the betrayal and that some skank from his job was able to benefit by him all these years, at my expense ; eg., emotionally, affectionately, etc

        • I think Blindsided meant death instead of cheating, whereas you seem to be talking about death along with cheating.

  • My co-workers, who have been there when I was going through the hardest times, will complain about their husbands non-stop. Things like how they don’t help do the dishes, or don’t hug them when they need a hug. Then they’ll turn to me and say, “See? You’re so lucky that you don’t have a man anymore. They’re just so much trouble sometimes”.
    I mean, really? I’ve never responded when they tell me this, because I just don’t know what to say.

    • This is quite bizarre to me because, when I told my ‘best friend’, when I thought my X was cheating, she said the exact same thing. Men were pigs, she said. Guess who she was fucking at the time?

    • My co-worker says that to me at least once a week. I agree wholeheartedly with her every time with a grin and feel a little sorry for her.

      Except for killing spiders and driving in the snow (both of which freak me TF out), I do not envy her. Her marriage, except for the cheating (though who knows, right?), sounds close enough to mine to remind me constantly of how good I have it now, and how happy and peaceful and content life for my kids and I is.

      Meh comes 🙂 . It really does.

    • chumpedincali
      throw it back on them and say : “if your husband won’t give you a hug then more than likely hes cheating on you ” Or if they are on their second marriage (or first) start rambling off stats that “you know in second marriages have a (#)% failure rate. Maybe that’s where YOURS is heading…Just zing them right back…I’ve learned…I’m sure she will Shut her mouth after that…

        • nodancing
          Oh, you know what Narcissists never hug. Also they don’t really know how to be intimate. to hug would mean they have to be vulnerable and they don’t show that side of themselves. They cannot be vulnerable because its a false self

          • ^^true Duped, the rare time’s cheater did hug me it was awkward. I felt like I was hugging a mannequin.

            • brit
              OMG it’s so true. My husband said out of the blue one day give me a hug. he must have been hoovering me

  • My close friends didn’t screw up in this way. But a glissade of former clients slunk away in what looked an awful lot of shame and silence, with the occasional dishonest excuse, after being offered huge discounts on professional services to continue working with the manic-depressive, dishonest, user ex and the half-his-age former client who first got a huge discount so long as she slept with him over the span of a week and was willing to continue letting him beseech her for “beloved friendship” and sex. They’re now stuck with the less honest, less brave, less ethical, less professional and far less talented “half” of our former partnership. I was generous to all those people. Being betrayed and abandoned was a shock. I was raw and very sad for a while. But I never missed them. They were like him, exploitative, prone to taking ethical shortcuts and cheater-iffic. Now I’m free of them. I’m raw, real, true to myself, inhabiting all of myself, exultant.

    • short term thinking gets people every time. A client who cannot see further than their nose is one who will surely run into financial trouble somewhere along the line and at that stage, you will absolutely not require their patronage!

      Well done to you for maintaining – at great personal pain and suffering – dignity, kindness and a sense of fair play.

      Just never work for any of them again. Ever. Not at all. ”unfortunately our values don’t align”.

  • I doubt I’ll be the first to reply for the first time, but I know Tracy is still here in the time zone I am. When I saw Norman Vincent Peale speak in a full auditorium that may mom took me to, I was 17 yrs old. At the time, I was the youngest kid at home (out of five) and I knew my dad was cheating on her. This speaker was her answer. I never thought I’d wind up in the same position 40 yrs later and NVP and ‘I’m okay, You’re OK’ is definitely bust breaking, thanks to this s site. It’s bullshit.

  • My best friend since the beginning of high school and I scheduled a catchup, as she lives in another town. This was about 4 months after DDay and I had my 8 month old with me when we travelled by car to some apartments in a holiday resort. I remember feeling like my innards were collapsing in on themselves as she told me, “If [my man] cheated on me, I know that I would have done something to make him want to do that, and I would look at myself”. I should have known that I was trying to discuss the whole thing with the wrong person: she had cheated on her first husband when she decided that he was never going to change in their tense marriage, and I had at the time supported her through it, being her confidant when she had been arranging midnight trysts etc, even disavowing knowledge when her husband tried to corner me with his suspicions and even though, having been through it as a child with my own father, it left me feeling queasy. According to her, that was okay because she realised that it was over, initiated the affair and then left. It took me a while to actually get my head around the shock of her cold-bloodedness, but there’s no way we’re close anymore. My other friend was just there for me unconditionally, 24/7 whatever I needed, and that’s the kind of support you need in a situation where the rug has been pulled out from under you.

    • Stig, I heard this same shit. “Both sides are always to blame.” From my adult son who can’t accept that his father is evil.
      Sparkledick would endlessly tease me, provoke me about petty things (e.g., purposely make me err on a recipe and have to throw out ingredients) that would make me angry and, routinely, blame me in front of sons for spending too much (to hide his fucking expenses). So I chalk part of this son’s stupid shit on being mindfucked with me. I am spoon-feeding him Chump Lady…

      • Yes, the ‘two sides to every story’ shit. My son says that as well. It hurts. But people have a choice to believe whatever b.s. they want to. Especially if they can profit from the cheater in some way. For certain people, even our kids.

        • Oh I’ve heard this crap too. My response was, “Yes, his side, he cheated and lied every day to me for 2 years. My side, I didn’t. Not only did I not cheat on him when he deserved it, but I took the high road in the divorce. Simple. People are stupid. True story.”

        • “There are Two sides to every story” . . .

          an amazing friend of mine sent me an ecard right after D-Day . . . “There may be two sides to every story, but you’re still a douche in both of them”. Best saying every!!!!!

      • ClearWaters I feel ya, the odds are stacked when the other person knows what’s going on long before you have a clue, then provokes you to anger or other out-of-character behaviour because they are acting just so damn weirdly just to help them build the narrative that they will use as justification for their ultra-shitty behaviour in the background. Knowledge is power, and of course if we knew the end-game we would react differently, but they act like such dicks, a) because they are but b) just so they can point the finger at you.

    • Hey Stig —

      I guess the only “good” that came from knowing your “best friend” was exactly how a cheater thinks and acts, you saw this personality in action, up close and personal.

      • Thanks Queen, yeah, through her own hard work she has become very well off and successful but unfortunately she has paired up with a leech who likes the finer things in life and they do a lot of self-development courses and couple retreat stuff that sounds like mumbo jumbo to me and feeds into the line that everything that happens to you is your responsibility, so I think that’s where a lot of that bullshit comes into it. I feel sorry for her in a way because I am pretty sure that if she lost all her money tomorrow he would be off like a shot, but in the meanwhile, mixing with assholes has turned her into one.

    • what about the ones that tell you to ‘move on’ ‘he’s gone’ while you know that your whole life was wasted on a façade and it’s like you life is a pile of rubble and no amount of moving on will ever make you reflect on it as a learning experience. Especially when you have been the victim, yes victim of a narcissist…it makes it even worse…there’s just no definable way to recover from that because there so many many layers of betrayal..It extends and permeates into so many areas of your life. It’s like there is NO escape to recover and move on…eg because there are so many flying monkeys, coachmen, co conspirators, etc. One of his coworkers said to me “it’s your year now” then minutes later said ‘it’s your season now” I followed it up with I hope I skid on the icy road and crash into a tree and die.
      Who says that to a widow, only someone that knows about he ho skank; the howorker but never tells you directly…just makes a comment

      • I think their advice to move on is shallow asshole speak for “I don’t want to hear it. Being real and feeling the weight of all those emotions makes me uncomfortable, so, here, have some bracing, “pull yourself together advice” and stop boring yet frightening me with you ‘there but for the grace of god go I’ situation”.

      • There is something fundamentally missing in a person that can compartmentalize that kind of pain away and “just move on” without a period of grief and reflection. My guess is that all of their relationships are superficial and shallow, so there is nothing to mourn.

        • 2nd gen chump
          them getting away with it (the narc cheater and his skank) also does not help that there was no justice served and its a notch on howorkers belt. But I am sure Howorker was sick he died because he must have been treating her like a queen, she was getting all the fun and adventure, money, etc. and this other co worker said “it’s your year now” wtf did that mean….yeah, somebody at that company knew about those two sleezes, probably giggling and rubbing against one another at the company and alone in his office with the door closed. Who knows what went on. BUT somebody knew.. With a statement like that ! and the other one’s that tell you to move on. Family and friends. Move On? To what may I ask am I moving ON to? being destroyed behind my back in 400 different ways? what’s left?

  • I didn’t have to tell people that my ex cheated. They already thought of him as an asshole. The cheating part just confirmed it for them. 🤣😂

  • “Oh cheater isn’t like that” from VERY close people when I told them about how dodgy he was around women,hitting on them etc and how I didn’t trust him around any women(including them.)mind you the same people said to me after id confided in them about his at times aggressive and frightening behaviour towards me that “it was only one persons version of events.” I was incredibly stunned and hurt by that as they were some of the very few people that I’d told about the bad stuff that had happened. I’ve had so many idiotic things said to me. You also just HAVE to love it as well when you get told that any heartbreak and pain you’re going through is your own fault because “you chose him.”
    Dunno if it counts but the mistress told me I enabled him as much as she did Re the affair because I “knew what he was like.” Umm no honey I didn’t have a clue,though perhaps the sharp escalation in his mistreatment towards me when you two started screwing around should have given me an idea that something was up eh :/

    • Yah, Wantmy, I couldn’t really confide in anyone either. What gives me hope that our culture is changing is the #MeToo movement, and the frankness people are talking about cheating and praising monogamy.

      • Yes, I like that too, Queen. I feel that for a long time it’s been seen as being unsophisticated to get upset about infidelity, that you’re not cool if you can’t except that life isn’t black and white, things are never that simple, two sides blah blah blah.

    • wantmylifeback

      Yes, you always look back and know the spike of spiteful and mean behavior inflicted on you from your husband was during the time that big HO was front and center f ing your husband..that’s when they work up the ‘aggressive’ or passive aggressive behavior towards us…because they think they are just Hot shit that some skank is easily taking off her clothes for them.. They then treat us like shit because big easy Ho is in the picture.
      But I cannot help but think that he never ever ever showed himself or said the things he had said to me in the long ago past — he never would say to her— I cannot help but think that skank was treated like a queen–I am sure she was bending over backwards like gumby, to keep him on the hook….He would have been bored with her after awhile. He was surrounded by beautiful women on all his trips all day everyday I’m sure. We were on an elevator once and I saw him in action. He cornered a woman and rapid fire was talking to her. I could not believe my eyes. He forgot I was there…the narcissist at work. If I had not seen it I would not have believed it. This gave me a glimpse into narc life. That proved to me how disordered he was….

    • OMG! That “you picked him” bullshit. I hate that, it’s so triggering. It’s not like there’s a list of ingredients on a person: ‘sugar, spice, douchebaggery’. Nobody signs up to be mistreated. That’s victim blaming, right there.

      I had a doctor tell me, after I found out I had gotten herpes from my cheater, that his friend would tell me, “You chose poorly.” I told him, “Your friend sounds like a bitch.” I then complained to that doctor’s boss, because making people feel like crap about a disease they caught is reaaaallly shitty.

      • Susannah
        I found it amazing that my brother in law had my husband ‘tested for everything’ while he was dying in the hospital. He was not dying of a communicable disease so why have him tested for everything….I found that to be very telling…..douchebag cheater that’s known to his family much ?
        OH boy if I had known the heifer bitch ass howorker’s name I could have said and make sure you have the madam Howorker tested….because obviously they were very involved with their cheating and she may have been a HO to many … who knows what clusterfuckery was going on…but weird that the brother would have him tested for what? If he was not a cheater he did not have to be tested unless Ho Fuck from his job had something

  • I just hate the ones who say “You’ll find someone when you least expect it!”
    I’ve been “not expecting ” someone for nearly 9 years now☺

      • ^^^yes, of course, the internet, good guys, looking for that special someone, who enjoys walks on the beach, travel, who are toned, and fit, going to concerts, in shape, fit, and toned, enjoys cuddling, giving oral sex, toned and physically fit, someone who likes to spend weekends at home giving me oral sex, and lives to please her man. If you’re that special someone, call me, marriage might be in the cards for you… if you can prove yourself, babe…

      • Justine

        that is why the company Ho did not have to worry herself one bit about finding a man when she had my husband that she was giving bj’s to and keeping him in sex because she knew that she would get the money for the bj’s. I was watching a reality show the other day and the woman said I give my boyfriend Bj’s for jewelry. I knew right away that that was what the slut at my husbands job was doing that would send him over the moon of course, any many would love an old slut that was willing to manipulate them for money because their D excises their brains and she knew how to manipulate him. Like I said she did not have to go on that nasty internet to find a clean, handsome successful man, that wasn’t bringing her aids. NO, the old seasoned slut that screws married men had it made. She never had to go without sex, which is what happens when they cheat, they become too tired, act weird, they have to save it up for the company prostitute. Because they are a narcissist they thrive on the admiration and adulation and fake stroking of ego. The hooker at work studied him and knew exactly how to get to him with the fake compliments and praise. She was seasoned at this, having been the company prostitute, that screwed married men all her life. He didn’t pay that no mind he was basking in her compliments and using her ass to gain recognition at the company because he hired her and she was making him look good there, another narcissist thing.

        By the way, no guy will give you oral sex, especially not a naracissist. They want you to do everything sexually for them, they are selfish they won’t go that extra mile in bed, it’s all about them and their needs, didn’t you know?

        Yeah, the guys on the internet, LOL what losers, I would never get naked for any of them. It’s going to be a long bumpy road, fasten your seatbelts. If you are not into taking over someone’s husband for sex like that whore did to my marriage then it looks like we could be alone a long time because there are such losers out there. They are not worth a second date. LOL seriously Its sad to think some whore came along and could just take over in my marriage and ruin a beautiful marriage, or could have been, had she not injected her nasty ho self ….he was a fool.
        She was in it for the money. I am sure she will never find a guy like that again, even though he was not hers to find, but that Ho wanted what I had. Had he not been a narcissist looking for constant attention, I bet this probably would have not happened.

    • Justine,
      I hear you loud and clear. Lately, I’ve also been told, ‘You never know–you might meet Mr. Right at the grocery store.’ In over half a century, that has never happened. Haven’t met anyone through work, kids’ activities, volunteer activities, meet ups, the gym, etc. My last ex-boyfriend, who I met in undergrad, turned out to be someone that I wish that I had never met as is ‘long-term psychotherapy inducing.’

  • I got plenty of, “I’m so glad my husband would never do that!” But my favorite nugget that literally changed some friendships permanently was, “well, I’m a Christian so I’m going to forgive him.” This quite typically occurred either immediately before or after they elected to attend a party at his (what had been our) house.

    Cuz you know, Jesus said to forgive others so that you can drink at bonfires at his house. Forgiveness is the pathway to free beer (and minimizing any amount of icky feeling impact to your social life).

    Come now, you don’t expect them to miss out on all this social fun, just cuz he tore your life apart? I mean, wheres the fun to help the chump pick up their life or watch them mentally fall apart? Sure it’s ok for a month or so, while it makes them feel valiant in coming to the aid of their poor chumpy friend.

    You know, if you would just FORGIVE the cheater (meaning, not hold them accountable for their actions) then that would solve everything. For them.

    Plus, don’t you want to be a “good christian” like they are? *looks down their nose at you from their high horse.

  • When I told a friend what happened this was her response….”what happens behind closed doors is private and no one’s business. ”
    Not my friend anymore.
    Another friend said I just needed to learn to forgive.

    • I got that one too Manna!

      And shamed for “airing my dirty laundry” because it made other people uncomfortable.

  • My neighbours said, the ow must be more interesting than me!, she dumped her kids, drinks excessively, takes hard drugs, crack etc. Apparently my neighbours think dying my hair, and a fake tan will win my ex back, I didn’t ask him to come back!. The ows mum looks after her kids, so she can go to the crack house. The ow asked me to feel sorry for her. Ex admitted she lies about everything.

    • The prize they end up with is mindblowing Susan. When the Limited hooked up with Nanthony she had felony drug charges and a laundry list of multiple arrests. Now here’s one I heard, “People change.”

      Chumps are expected to forgive which to me minimizes repeated purposeful actions to harm. Denial is powerful as for others the truth is uncomfortable. I sent links to her recent arrests to family members after Dday. Can’t deny repeated breaking and entering, assault of an elderly man, felony drug charges when it’s in the newspaper.

      The pairing of a cheater with an addict highlighted the unfulfilled dreams of the disordered pair and the extent they would go to in order to grasp at an imaginary brass ring.

      It’s one thing to seek happiness and another to have others ignore the truth.

      • doingme
        I wish I heard that ho skank howorker had a record or was a druggie, but alas I doubt that’s true. No she takes the different angle, the intelligent nerd who’s into spreadsheets (and spreading it) and makes youtube videos for her business and praises herself with her high pitched sick childish voice.. she must be a good fuck with that voice…literally puts on this sickly voice…does big madam talk baby talk to her ‘married clients’ cuz I am sure these top execs are her ‘clients’ ….ok let’s not be fooled by douchbagery women that screw married men. Maybe she should make a summers eve youtube video. Also, alas, nothing for me to feel good about that she’s some kind of drug kingpin or something. Too bad. That would have made it funny that he was stuck with such a ‘great’ douchebagery catch. But instead the karma bus got her inadvertently. Poor dear. LOL

    • Same.. .. wasband left for the neighborhood party girl meth head.. .. she bailed on her own husband (still legally married and i throw that in his face every chance i get which is not often since i havent seen him in over a year) and abandoned her own 4 children. She has been separated for at least 10 years, her youngest is 12, so basically she abandoned her 2 year old and other very young kids to go parry..

      He thought she would “love him better” and she “respects” him. I will necer understand how a man can think a woman who left her own flesh and blood will be a good partner. But then she drinks with him, and turned him back on to meth. She doesnt complain or try to get him to quit drinking. She doesnt “judge” him when he is spending all his money on meth or drinking his troubles away. She just literally beats the shit out of him, knocks him around and throws bottles at his face but at least she is not bitching about his drinking. .. lol

      I heard how he is such a nice guy.. ..yep. nice guys always cheat on their wives. .. it must have been something i did, because you know taking care of everything was not enough for him. I must have been a bitch to make such a nice guy cheat and leave me.. .. shrug.. .. whatever. He told everyone that i asked too much from him. Because apparently wanting your husband to come home every night, pay bills, stop drinkibg while driving and asking to spend time with your wife and kids is “too much”.

      I was devestated and crushed. But 4 years later i have peace. It does get better.

    • Well you have to admit, it does make her more “interesting,” but in some circles “interesting” is the most polite way of saying “ew.” She is interesting like staring at a bloody car wreck is interesting.

  • Me ex MIL whom I have talked with only once since Dday, said “What did he do, Father another child?” When I had to see her at my sons graduation she came up to me and said “You look fine”.

    I may run into her again this weekend at a nieces graduation party. I may change my mind and not go because of her. I don’t want my head in that blender.

    • Yeah mine blamed me too. When he told her he didn’t want a divorce, she seethed, “then you are giving her back all the power and control. Don’t give her that. I bought you a new duvet for the guest room.” Of course this is a woman whose been trying to get him back in her uterus for 51 yrs.

      • My ex Monster in Law told me,”If you were nicer to him, this wouldn’t have happened.” My response, “You’re the one that hired the whore”. She was an employee of their business.

        • Same here. Loyal employee. Turns out she had also slept with mil late husband. A real class act.

        • My response, “Um, no, if he kept his dick in his pants this never would have happened, BITCH!”

          • nomoreskankboy
            the old lady mother in law is always in on it. Mine pretended to be so innocent. As I reflect on her, that 85 yr old is as smart as a whip, would lie for son. She reminds me of the little old lady that you would never suspect but could probably rob a bank and get away with it. I think narc doesn’t fall far from her tree come to think of it. She has knowledge of this ho, i’m sure of it…He would have introduced ho to her to make believe to ho that they were serious….look you’ve met my whole family, I am not just fucking you….. He used to pretend to go over her house to look in on her, all the while getting picked up by hooker howorkern. So mom in laws house was just a scapegoat. He used her many times as an excuse. I can kick myself from here to sunday for not checking behind his lies. His old mother doesn’t go to sleep at 1030 at night, more like 830pm. My chump dumbass never ceases to amaze me. I have been chumped for the century.

    • My ex MIL blamed me too “there’s two sides to the story” which is hilarious because after I had the first D Day, it came out that his dad had cheated on her for YEARS. After D Day number three, when I decided that was it for me, she gave me that line and stopped talking to me. In retrospect, I think she could not wrap her head around the fact that I was not going to put up with this and what her life could have been like without the giant man baby she is currently saddled with.

    • I think the worst was his therapist who told him after 1stD Day when I was reeling from this news and had a 2 month old baby, that I was “like a pinball. Be patient, eventually her quarter will run out,” in response to the jackhole lamenting about how upset I was. He also told him that it was hard for me because I needed “to own” all the ways I was responsible for this. ALL of the eye rolls and rage.

    • ParasiteCleanse…. love your name 🙌🏼
      😂😂😂

      Make sure you go to your niece’s graduation party. Don’t miss out on life because of some idiots! Don’t change your plans to avoid fuckwits, because they are everywhere anyway. Just learn to ignore them.

  • “On some level, the wife always knows.”
    “Sex is very important to a marriage.” (Yours didn’t have enough)
    “I think my husband is the only man left with real character.”
    “You were so young when you married.”
    “I don’t like to know about things like that.” (me, neither)
    “He’s good-looking.” (huh?)
    “Someday he’ll regret this.”
    “If he decides to get help, we’ll be there for him.”
    “Is he bi-polar?”
    “He’s always had issues.” (issues . . . what do they know that I don’t?)
    “I’ve heard you talk down to him.” (OMG I hope so)
    “My husband is having lunch with him.” (why?) “Because [her husband] is nice.”
    “He’s an alcoholic. I hope he gets help.”
    “You should have gotten a better attorney.”
    “He seems so sad.”
    “He’s a terrible communicator.”
    “He made bad choices.” (that’s a favorite)

    • Loyalty, what is your MIL’s IQ?

      No mental illness can explain such a vulgar, selfish, shallow mind. Not even my in-laws win this game and they were very crass. I’m so sorry you had to hear this shit.

      But this explains from under which rock your cheater comes from.

      • It’s so revolting. But toxic people give birth to and raise very fucked up children. Mine loved the mow (w 4 kids) because mow kissed mil’s ass nonstop and “was so loyal.” Cue crying me with 30 yrs and 3 kids and never being spoken to again. Because loyalty. Mil is a therapist btw.

        • Thank you both. It was within a week of DDay and I was in the mentality he cheated because of something I did. This absolutely didn’t help. Like I’m defective and can’t make my husband happy. Other things these in laws said were “well if something was not wrong he wouldn’t have cheated” (uhmmm no I wasn’t fully happy and I didn’t cheat and go outside our marriage) or “it’s not all his fault”. I still boil over this. It’s been five years!!!

  • A former friend who was x’s minion was trying to get me to take x back. When I reminded him that x was still living with ow he said x couldn’t break up with her because he’s to nice a guy to hurt her like that.

  • “They’re not all bad you know. Some men are good, I mean look at my man, he waited years until his kids were grown up before leaving his wife for me. He could have walked out when they were young, but he didn’t because he’s a nice man”

    Me: *speechless* and penny drop moment why this woman was avoiding me since this happened.

    • 🤮 Had the pleasure of reading an article celebrating X’s engagement to AP (hot on the heels of our drawn out divorce) by one of their mutual friends. Ms. Psycho waxed poetic on how much they had in common (green trucks!) and years (20!) spent sacrificing their happiness in order to raise children. And how happy they were to finally find true love and marry one another!!!! Wow.

  • The Heavy Weight Championship Stupid Comment:

    “I just don’t believe (name) would do that…..you know, they’re a Christian.”

    • I never cease to be amazed at the amount of people who confuse professing a religion with actually practicing it.

      The D-Day flatterfuck proclaims to be a Christian, has this splashed all over her social media.

      • My x is a Minister. MOW is a Minister. Their band of flying monkeys are all Ministers….

        Every one of the monkeys left and divorced their partners in a similar fashion. All cheated and discarded their spouses within a year or so of my BD.

        Stupid Shit people have said to me –

        “He can’t do that – he’s a Christian!”. Guess that makes me a liar 🤥

        “You need to learn forgiveness – we are all human”

        “What would Jesus do ?!?!”. Seriously – I think he would smite them.

        “Have you prayed about it? We are praying for you”. Great – how about actually doing something ?

        I could go on. Needless to say I don’t go to church any more.

        God and I have great conversations at the beach.

      • Yep the ex’s family have been Mormons for over twenty years, do you think they knew any verses from the bible, nope! Dumb as a pile of rocks.

    • SuperDuperChump,

      Say to your friend…”and the BTK Killer served on his church council”. Religion is often a convenient cover for evil. The disordered use people as appliances and cultural institutions as props.

  • CL, enjoy your visit down under!
    In the last few years of our marriage, X spent a lot of time at “work” and “at the club,” so the kids and I filled many of our hours volunteering. That year we had chosen to help a colleague of his, a retired peace officer struggling with cancer, and his elderly wife, with yard and house work. When X abandoned us in that spectacular way of his, I tearily shared that I couldn’t understand how x could walk out on our marriage, on our children, and on his financial responsibilities. In responding, Mr. stated that “life is short” and that “happiness mattered.” I can remember how hurtful that was…but at the same time I was like WTF?!?!?! Several months later, the kids and I attended this man’s funeral, and even though x had not seen this man in months, he showed up too and was that charmer everybody knew. A few months after that, the wife had completely renovated the house, purchased herself a new vehicle, vacationed with her kids, and was dating someone new at her church.

  • I’ve gotten, “Well, but he decided to stay after you found out, so you need to give him another chance.” And, “God forgives, so can you, and you know, other men aren’t going to want a woman with two little kids.”

    And, “If you divorce, you won’t be able to control what happens with the kids when you’re not around.”

    And, “Every marriage has its problems.”

    And that’s just other people, not counting all the dark and chumpy thoughts that sneak up on me in the middle of the night.

  • Most of my acquaintances from the area wouldn’t say anything, just nod knowingly and walk away….It was like they knew and didn’t tell me.

  • So many people. So many stupid things…
    Best summarized by the theme “get over it” and “are you still not over it?”

  • I convinced my stbx to attend a counseling session for the good of our kids going through the divorce even though he didn’t want to be “disingenuous” with me. Oh God forbid he be that after a year plus of lying, betraying and living a double life. The counselor pretty much glossed over his affair because it was just a “symptom” of something much bigger that was wrong (wrong with me is what I heard). I remember him saying “This isn’t about who’s wrong and who’s right. You’re both right.” And I sat there taking that in and nodding my head in agreement because it was all so fresh and I was desperately wanting to not be getting divorced. Now I look back and think “WTF?!” He was right?

  • I outright told her that I was calling for support and some kindness and asked her to stop with the statements she was making and she just wouldn’t stop.

    “Why didn’t you leave? I’d never put up with that, I would have walked out the door when…….”

    She kept repeating these points over and over: seemed to lack the capacity to empathize on any level: didn’t ask I was ok, was there anything she could do etc Nope! Just kept on grinding me down.

    • Yeah I heard a lot of “cudda, wudda, shudda” too. “I wouldn’t have taken that”. “I would have left him the first time he hit me”. None of those people had been in my shoes. The Twat was in serious danger of bankrupting me because I would have been responsible for all the debts when he ran away. I had to get my ducks lined up and do it “the right way”, not how “they” would have done it. I needed to be able to keep a roof over my kids heads so I had to get everything lined up first. Try walking a mile in my shoes first and then tell me what you wudda done!

  • I too got “Well no-one knows what goes on in someone else’s marriage,”
    “Surely you must have known…”
    “You mustn’t have given him enough sex”
    (Um, I thought mostly daily and twice on Sundays was enough??!!)
    Recently from someone I barely knew “You need to look at yourself and what you weren’t providing in the relationship”…Um, no I don’t… I trust he sucks and was spineless, continuing his affair for 2.5 years before he was caught out. If he wasn’t happy he had ample opportunities to let me know, but he was too gutless and loves his cake too much for that”.
    And thses pearlers from the Soon to be XMIL…
    “He must have been desperately unhappy with you!”
    And
    “Don’t worry about the kids. They are very resilient. Mine got over it really easily, never needed any counselling and totally love their stepfather”…. Um 2 of my teenagers knew what their Dad was up to long before I did. I doubt that my first born daughter who finally told me what Dad was doing after months of Teen rebellion and anarchy will ever stop blaming herself for the family fallout when she finally outed him. He has certainly never stopped blaming her for telling.. And STBXMIL…no, I don’t think your teens were as resilient as you’d like to believe….. way back when you did the very same cheating thing. I clearly remember Mr Manipulator sobbing uncontrollably moths later over what you had done to his father and and his family. Have you never noticed that one of your adult sons has had numerous girlfriends, but barely ever for more than 6 months in almost 30 years of adulthood??? And the other two are entitled cheaters…Perhaps your boys may have benefited from some counselling way back then, or some moral and ethical role modelling from their mother? I trust they all suck.

  • I think there’s another reason that was left out in Tracy’s article. “You are the strong chump upon who everyone relies for advice and counsel, you do not have the option of needing support. So your uncontrollable tears and pain make me uncomfortable and I don’t like that our roles have switched. God, let’s get past this already. When can it be about my needs again?”

    My former BFF reacted like that to me. I had held her hand through a lot. Not because I’m a saver, or anything, I really thought she’d been given an unfair shake and I hadn’t, so I listened. And listened. For years. The first time I really needed her, in a messy, booger, snot, sobbing way, her response was “well maybe if you’d been blowing sunshine up his ass, he wouldn’t have taken her up on her offer.” It was the first time in my life I found myself running blindly out of a coffee shop sobbing hysterically trying to breathe. I felt betrayed all over again. It still brings tears to my eyes 4 years later. It’s worth mentioning that nothing that cheater had done warranted sunshine blowing for months – bad decisions and behaviour, not affair related – and I and everyone who loved him unconditionally had been calling him out on it to no avail. That she didn’t acknowledge that crushed me. I didn’t end the friendship, I moved far away so it’s very superficial now, but it is forever changed. Interestingly, the folks who did stick by me with love have all separately told me that she had been crazy possessive of me for the last 30 yrs and they all felt pushed away by her. I was shocked and had no idea. I guess I stand by my chumpiness, member since 1987.

  • “Let’s talk about this later”. In condescendent tone…

    “I don’t want to talk about this!” This was yelled.

    From my dear sisters-in-law married to sparkledick’s cheating brothers.

    • I really don’t think there is anything wrong with someone saying they don’t want to talk about it, especially in that context.

      It’s just really beyond some people and saying they don’t want to talk about it, is a boundary that ought to be respected. Doesn’t mean you have to stay friends or be understanding of them, but at least it’s not some trite platitude.

      • I guess you are right Sunflower.

        But they can’t say they were my friends. I used to listen to and support them through all their shit.

        Each person gives what he/she is capable of giving.

  • On Valentine’s Day this year, my friend received such a beautiful gift from her husband that she just had to post a pic of it on Facebook. She and her husband wearing sweatshirts with printing that read “#stayingmarried”. Insensitive? Or am nuts? She knows I’m going through a divorce.

  • “Well he didn’t get done sowing his wild oats.”
    wow. Just wow.
    (Sowing these wild oats can get you aids. Just sayin’)

  • Cheater’s always so nice, he just doesn’t seem like that kind of guy,

    Brit, Cheater, (after 20 years of marriage) woke up and decided he wants someone he has more in common with, that’s all, why are you so upset? get over it…

    One or two weeks after Cheater left me. “There’s this girl I met in Target, as soon as I looked at her I thought of Cheater. I’m going to set Cheater up with her. They’d look so cute together…

    You told Cheater that you hope he rots in hell?? No wonder Cheater left you…

    • The ones that hurt the most were friends saying stuff like “I’m going to keep myself looking nice so MY husband doesn’t run off too”. They may have thought it but it’s better left unsaid. Especially when ex was in much worse shape than me and no oil painting! When I hear comments like that now I say “what about Elin Woods?”

  • “you need to just get over this” – my Mom, about a month after he’d left our 23 year marriage. OK, mom, I’ll get right on that!

    “you need to find someone before you turn 50” – 3 years ago, from a close friend. I’ll be 50 this year, I don’t think I’ve turned in to a pumpkin yet, and I’m not any closer to being ready for re-marriage now than I was then.

    • My mom said that to me, too. Gee thanks for the support, mom. Not discussing it with her again. SMH

      • My Dad who raised me strong and treated me like my brother, im was a tomboy, still am to some extent, said I need to prioritise getting a man. Umm no not right now, quite happy on my own slobbing out and dancing to my own beat. I let the comment go it was just not worth replying to.

        • Next time anyone says something like that, just flip over a table and say, “I’m married to the cause!” They’ll never bring it up again. 😀

  • When the ex left for a girl half my age who is similar to me when we married, a lifelong male friend told me “He must be looking for the you that you’ve lost along the way”

  • I found out that the MOW who desperately chased the Monster had taken him to meet her parents during their affair, when it was still a dirty little secret. I expressed to a holier-than-thou Christian friend, my horror at her parent’s support of such disgusting conduct, especially as it involved the betrayal of their son-in-law. She looked at me blankly and said, “So, what’s wrong with that?”.

  • “Well, everyone knew your marriage was over anyway.”
    Apparently there were quite a few of these charming people living in my home 24/7 and observing my marriage. Who knew!

  • I got a lot of insensitive comments (will try to dig some out of email). On a lighter note, the mother of a good friend, when I told her why I had gotten divorced, said of my X, “I’m surprised he was successful at seducing women–such a sour puss.”

    • RIGHT?!? The ones who saw our disordered fuckwits for who they were long before we did… those are the ones in my tribe now 🙂

      One of my closest friends, who was with me the night I met Mr. Sparkles, remarked: “I told you he was a throwback!” I think those are the remarks we should focus on for a Friday challenge… the snarky words of empowerment we heard! Right up there with “If you found him on one website, you can bet there are others.”

      Truth Sayers are Narc Slayers.

      • I have been told by so many of our friends and family that I was the “good” part of us as a couple. I think he thought that everyone would immediately rush over to his orbit. It didn’t quite happen that way.

        My father told me that I lost 180 pounds of asshole in August 2017 and that I must be feeling lighter. Somewhat crass, but I could not have loved him more in that moment.

    • When I told my family what ex-cheater had done, they immediately said that they never knew what I saw in him, and my sister even said that some of our friends and former co-workers were surprised when they met him because they thought I deserved much better than that!

      I am so grateful that my friends and family have always been in my corner. No one has been Switzerland, and if I ever encounter anyone who defends his behavior, that will be the last time we ever talk.

  • I was also told by another ‘friend’ that I needed to get over it (‘it’ being years of every type of abuse:- physical (including strangulation); mental (including being told byMonster every day for months to kill myself);, sexual (repeated marital rape) and financial (wiped us out before i knew a thing, even emptying our kids’ bank accounts) ) because other people were gong through “far worse”, e.g. her daughter had been in hospital for an operation (successful) 6 months earlier and I had no idea how stressful that was for her.

    • fuk your friend. NObody should ever have to suffer that type of abuse at the hands of anyone let alone the creep you were married to. It’s not your fault. He deserves to be served gruel with a prison sentence.
      I guess I was lucky I was not physically abused just emotionally and mindfuckery mentally. But any abuse in any form is difficult to get through. Hugs to you

  • *From my STBX MIL, “but he was sooooooo unhappyyyyy.”

    * From my STBX SIL when asked at our trial if she had met the AP, “yes!” As she beamed & flashed a shitty smile at me. His AP has had multiple run ins with the law…lost custody of her kid.. found in contempt of something in that case…but former SIL, you go be proud of meeting /knowing AP!!

    Needless to say, I DO NOT miss his family AT ALL.

    • After Cheater left and humiliated me, my neighbor who I thought was a close friend told me Cheater looks so much happier now.

      You two weren’t getting along…, treating me like shit and cheating will do that to a marriage.

      One of my favorites is, you had to have done something for him to leave. I wasn’t there, so I can’t blame him, I don’t know what went on behind closed doors…

      I found out later that she and another neighbor were secretly meeting up with him everyday for coffee after his workout. He suddenly became friends with all the neighborhood housewives which is when I ended my friendship with them.

      • brit
        Ohhh I have neighbors like that .All the neighbor women would come to my house because handsome loverboy husband of mine insisted on giving out Halloween candy. That was when my husband was young a few years back. All the neighborhood women would come to get the candy even if their kid was a teenager, just to see my husband. I’m sure that’s why my husband loved to give out candy he got to see the mom’s of the children. When I was first married this ugly weird neighbor was standing inside my garage. I caught her rubbing his arm talking to him. I told her to get out of here. I really embarrassed her ass, she never came back here again. And she is a dog and her husband has a huge belly. The woman were so upset my husband was not the bachelor in the neighborhood any longer…there are such sick twisted women out there. I would never bring woman around my husband. Knowing that they he’s a flirt and they would take over your man in a heartbeat. No more morals in this society.

        • You’re absolutely right duped. I was too much of a Chump to realize what was going on right in front of me. Ex works out and has a nice build. We would host barbeques and have the neighbors over. I noticed ex was becoming more and more friendly with a couple of the neighborhood wives. I caught one a few times grabbing his ass, I didnt think I had anything to be concerned about since he loved me so much and was my best friend.. yeah, right.
          A couple of times I’d be cleaning up and walk outside and they had the uh, did we get caught, looks on their faces. I was so naive and trusting..,
          Now that I think about it, they should have been helping me clean up

  • I haven’t had a lot of people say much to me, but stupidity abounds. I learned that when my son died.

    For the most part, I chalk up people’s comments to their just not knowing what to say overall. The most insensitive ones come from people who are idiots and who I’m not friends with anyway, so to tell the truth, their comments just don’t hold any value with me. Theycan think what they want because they’re morons and I just don’t care. I might bitch about the ridiculousness, but people have been saying shit about me for a long time (or not, I don’t know) and I really just don’t care.

    I did have a therapist briefly who I told I struggled with sex during the marriage and she lectured me about “the responsibility” we take on when we have a spouse or a lover. Basically if we don’t put out, what do we expect to happen? At the time I knew that was fucked up, but couldn’t articulate it. That’s probably been the worst I’ve gotten.

    I just really don’t have friends, so I’ve been spared a lot that.

    • Finding his mother and sisters were friends with the OW on Facebook is what twisted the knife for me.

  • Does this statement bother others the way it does me (and maybe it’s the fact it’s been repeated so many times to me in the last four months)?

    “Well, at least you got three beautiful children from it.”

    I love my children and am grateful for them. Ar the same time, I could’ve had three beautiful children with a man of character who wouldn’t have done this to their mother nor them. 😑

    • I love my children and am grateful for them. Ar the same time, I could’ve had three beautiful children with a man of character who wouldn’t have done this to their mother nor them. 😑

      So true!!!

    • Kibbled again, yes that statement bothers the hell out of me.
      Not only was i abused but my childrens were too. Would anyone choose to have children by a con artist?
      Its hard to take the love you feel for your kids out of the equation but i dont think anyone would choose to put their kids thru hell.
      The asshole made the choice for us.

      • @Leavealyingloser So much righteous anger that I think we can all share in dealing with these fuckwits. Especially since parallel parenting means they are never out of the picture.

    • Thank you Kibbled Again. I’m so glad I’m not the only one. I’ve had that crap said to me so many times. My d-day was when our first child was 2.5 weeks old. I also got the “well a child can’t save a marriage.” 1) no shit. 2) I didn’t know my marriage was in need of saving.

      • @YouCantMakeThisShitUp – I conceived a child during our first separation (well, actually two but I had a miscarriage two months previous to finding out I was pregnant again).

        I then found out ten days after my third child was born (and awaiting open heart surgery in the NICU) that he was still actively pursuing his relationship with the AP (despite playing doting dad and constantly being in the family home otherwise).

        Nine years later, on D-day #2, he had gone back to that AP and complained how me trapping him in that pregnancy had prevented them from “gaining their happiness together”. You indeed can’t make this shit up.

    • I agree with you completely!

      My kids are my blessings — the only good that came from 30+ years of hell. I have fed myself that same line, however, because I’m so desperate to find something positive about the years I wasted, the career I gave up, and all the opportunities & money lost because I married X instead of someone of good & true character.

      I hope I’ve finally learned to trust my gut & not ignore the red flags. I preach that to my kids & hope they’ve learned from my mistakes! I have been an easy target for narcissistic people/abusers throughout the years because I was not taught that.
      I thought I was being judgemental or critical if I didn’t trust or feel comfortable with someone. I’d been taught that if I didn’t trust someone it was because I was either untrustworthy myself or that I was not able to trust them because I was jealous or holding a grudge against them. Therefore, I needed to forgive them so that I didn’t become a bitter person consumed with unforgiveness. It’s no wonder I WAS the perfect Chump & victim of narcissistic abuse.

      • @Nyra

        I thought I was being judgemental or critical if I didn’t trust or feel comfortable with someone. I’d been taught that if I didn’t trust someone it was because I was either untrustworthy myself or that I was not able to trust them because I was jealous or holding a grudge against them. Therefore, I needed to forgive them so that I didn’t become a bitter person consumed with unforgiveness.

        This is what I was thinking just this weekend. How do I get past this chumpy part of myself since frankly, I do like trusting people – I do want to be empathetic to their situation or to their background. Now I wonder what tricks this middle aged woman needs to learn still – I thought I would have figured this out by now. Sigh.

        • I’m an evangelical pastor who happens also to experienced living through a divorce from a cheater. Here’s a few thoughts on that trust guilt trip:

          First, trusting someone is not the same thing as forgiving them. A sexual assault victim might forgive her assailant. However, she would be highly foolish to trust him again in a vulnerable situation. Fear about having one’s trust abused is a good, godly signal we need to pay attention to. Also, it is not very loving or Christlike–imo–to blame a victim of gross trust violations for having trust issues with the violator.

          Forgiving is more about not punishing the perpetrator. It is about giving them to God for His wise judgment. Trust is something entirely different than that. It is earned. Everyone who walks into our lives is not automatically entitled to our trust.

          Second, we can accept the good things/people (kids) from our first marriage while still rejecting the bad. Brene Brown talks about how empathetic responses rarely begin with the dreaded “at least.” This is true as well when it comes with having kids. Such statements communicates to the faithful spouse that he or she ought to shut up about their pain: “At least….” Such a statement shows this person is not worthy of our story and may not have the capacity to hold our tender, precious heart.

          Hope that helps!
          -DM

          • @Divorce Minister – what would be your guidance for trusting those new people who come into our lives? I have no problem with saying I do not trust STBXH (the micro-betrayals I continue to find out assure me that I am solid on that front) but how do I not let that baggage get in the way of what might be someone deserving of my trust?

            • I wish I had some sort of magic formula for that part. Rebuilding our ability to trust is part of the healing journey post-infidelity discovery. It begins with a choice, though, to seek to trust again. Quality people who are worthy of trust understand we are on this healing journey and will be empathetic with your struggle.

              A basic rule of thumb is people worthy of trust do not act entitled to it. They understand your trust of them is a precious gift. If someone acts entitled, then they are NOT worthy of that trust (and likely have some agenda they are pushing.)

              I would be especially wary of those Christian or religious people who use their faith identity to presume upon access into your life–i.e. presume that you MUST trust them or are bitter. That is manipulation. And it is spiritual abuse, IMO. These people are not healthy people to trust.

              We all make mistakes on this rebuilding journey. Be kind to yourself and cut yourself some slack. Of course, we will make mistakes in trusting people. It is an art, not a science.

              I still struggle with this even though I’ve been divorced for nearly six years and am remarried. Part of the journey is separating what is our stuff and what is actually happening. Am I anxious because something they did or something my cheater did? It is not fair to judge someone based on what our cheater did to us. But it is understandable we would have such a reaction. What our exes did was traumatizing. The key is not to live in reaction but to notice why you are feeling that way and make an informed choice whether or not to trust/distrust.

          • Wow “trust guilt trip”! That’s a great way of putting it.
            The denomination I grew up in really emphasized how we were all guilty miserable human beings. I was conditioned to feel guilty – even when I wasn’t. I can see how I was easily guilted/persuaded into things I didn’t want or agree with. All they had to do was make me feel guilty for not trusting them. Another blameshifting tactic!

            Thanks DM!

        • I like to trust & give everyone the benefit of the doubt too! Unfortunately there are people waiting to prey on people like us.

          I’ve learned the hard way that trust, like respect, needs to be earned. Once the wrong people (X, lawyer, doctors, financial advisers…) knew that I trusted them (or felt I had to) they used it to take advantage of me or my situation for their benefit not mine!

          I now try to remember that
          •using discernment is not being critical or judgmental
          •trust my gut instinct (discernment)
          •I can forgive someone & still not trust or like them
          •not everyone should be trusted
          •I can show others respect even if I do not respect or trust them
          •actions speak louder than words
          •long term signs of repentance are required to earn back my trust
          •Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is. Some do so to take advantage of good hearted people.
          •God is good, but not everyone who claim to be a Christian is!
          •good, honest people will not be
          offended when you ask & expect
          full answers, explanations, or proof
          •”what you don’t trust me?” Or “trust me …” means you should not!

          I hope that help a little! I still have a lot to learn too. I appreciate what you & others here have taught me!

    • It bothers me as well. I also have three beautiful children, and I agree– I would rather have had them with a man who loves me and loves them and wouldn’t dream of destroying our family because he was so happy to be a part of it. I think that people say that because they think they’re trying to be helpful by suggesting a silver lining. I think their hearts are in the right place, but it sucks that some people can have their beautiful children with a loving partner, and I ended up having mine with a selfish moron.

    • I have three beautiful children that I believe are mine – but I will never know for sure – and I am
      getting to be ok with that.

  • Two weeks after d day a counselor said, because I was distraught, “it’s been too long, you need to get over this!” WTF? Two years later I was still crying.

  • Clueless Switzerland friend, remarks about Ex: “Well, he always had a healthy libido.” WTF? Weren’t nothin’ healthy about it.

  • “You just need to get over it and move on. You think you’re the first person this has happened to?” I know I’m not the first person but excuse me for needing time to get over my husband of 10 years who I dedicated my life to walking out on me and our 3 kids to relive his 20’s and date 23 year olds. All while being awful and trying to make sure myself and the kids live in poverty then is mad that didn’t work out for him. It’s been 3 years and I’m still not over it! It doesn’t hurt as much as it used to but still hurts.

    • This is akin to what I planned to post — several people told me I was overreacting because this is “just what men do”. I happen to personally know plenty of men who have far better character than that. I also happen to know plenty of women who don’t. Also, neither of those things is the point. At all.

      • Yes or “ it could be worse”! Ya well I realize it could be worse but you know what it could be much better! I hate when people think you should dismiss your feelings on your situation or not feel a certain way because they think you got it pretty good. Not surprisingly both came from the same person.

  • I got so many stupid mean comments from his minions that I thought were my friends. One of my “best friends” said she wanted to keep her “friendship” with asshat “so our kids can still play together.”
    Not really mean, but weird comment I get all the time, even from near strangers is “Don’t worry. You’re going to find someone else really fast.” Umm. Ugh. My hellish divorce isn’t even over yet! You think I’m worried about finding another guy?

  • “I wonder if the societal pressure to be monogamous contributes to this kind of thing..”

  • “You must have known on some level”

    Anyone saying that gets a on way ticket to the Shit list.

  • In response to his total douchebaggery post divorce that has included multiple calls to cops and child protective against me, endless accusations and threats…

    ‘He’ll get over it’
    ‘He’ll get bored’
    ‘Once he stops being angry/hurt….’

    I just smile and do the quiet ‘uh huh’ and move on

  • Generally, everyone has been amazingly supportive of me as it seems that everyone is recognizing how much my husband (I guess I should start saying STBX) has derailed in his life. But, there are some well-intentioned comments that irk me.

    1. Remember that there are people right now that have it worse. (I know that! I recognize that! It does not neutralize the pain that I am currently experiencing. It’s called betrayal trauma, and it must be processed in order to properly heal.)

    2. You need to move on, and the sooner you do, the better you will feel. (No kidding! He left just five months ago for good, and I’m still discovering tidbits of further betrayal that need to be further processed each time.)

    3. You are an amazing catch. It’s his loss. Get out there and date again. I have someone I want you to meet. (Ummmm…I need another man in my life right now like I need a hole in my head. The last thing my children need right now is for their upturned lives to be further complicated by the introduction of a romantic stranger.)

    4. You will be so happy in the future that you got rid of him. You’ll realize that he was never good enough for you. (Well, thanks. Did YOU realize all this time that he was no good? My understanding is that you are as flabbergasted by his behaviour as I am. It’s saddening to also come to a realization that I spent 15 years of my life with someone unworthy. Again, please let me process as this isn’t making me feel better at all. Oh, crap, how am I supposed to co-parent with this stranger?)

    5. You know that he was probably doing this for a while. This woman probably wasn’t the first. So just let him go. (OMG, are you deliberately trying to insert maggots into my brain? Yes, I have discovered now that there was at least one emotional affair before this one. Yes, I have just discovered last night that he’s already cheated on this woman who he claims is the love of his life. Yes, my husband is a DOG!!! He’s become a DOG!!! I know that I have to let him go. I have let him go. I hold no illusions about him anymore. It’s the pain of the experience that I’m having a hard time letting go. Mind-fuckery is hard to shed people!)

  • At a work party, boss’ wife, who I barely knew, kindly shared with me the story of some author or speaker who was miserable after his wife left him. “He told himself he would give himself two weeks and then he was going to be over it! Life’s too short to be unhappy!” I’m sure she thought this story would miraculously correct my course and get to happiness ASAP!!

    I told her “If you ever go through your husband leaving you, you will know what a load of bullshit that is.”

    • I think many of the comments such as you’ll find someone much better, you’re much better off without him/her or stories of spouses being cheated on that got over it and went on to have a happy life, while definitely clumsy, are well intended. The smug, obnoxious comments such as my husband would never cheat on me or oh well I have a great marriage because I am just so much better than you are nothing but nasty comments and just a typical asswipe kicking a dog when it is down.

      • Agreed KB22. Most people don’t have any idea what to say when confronted with another’s tragedy. And they try to come up with something hopeful. I could use help with what to say, too.

        In Mrs Boss’ case, I felt she was instructing me on what I ‘should’ be doing.

        No one likes to be ‘Should’ on.

  • The one I get a lot is…..

    “I can’t believe you let that happen to you, you are such a smart girl/woman”.

    And other varying degrees of the above.

    • Prison chump: because we don’t feel like a total idiots already😡
      So, every smart woman is married to an amazing human being and for us- chumps- applying exactly the same approach, values and having similar priorities- brings us narcs…

  • I expect that I have said things that were insensitive (or worse) in the past. As Oprah says, now that I know better, I will do better. Since I’ve been going through this hell, I’ve tried to notice and remember responses that felt caring and good. I have been able to use these myself and I feel they have helped me show empathy. Do you have any you would add?

    “I hope you had someone close to you who understood and could be there for you.”

    “I wish I knew what to say.”

  • The worst bullshit he spewed out was, “She never really forgave me for cheating. “. This he told his adult daughter, the one he took to OW houses when she was 5.

    The blame was forever in my court; until I had enough.

    And today I put together my new lawnmower, a reminder that as Chumps we are resourceful and can depend on ourselves. Things really do come full circle. Filling your toolbox with strength and grit makes way for new authentic memories.

    • doingme
      I wish I was as resourceful as you are, I had to hire a lawn guy and there are so many more problems I have to work out or figure out. I figured out that there is so much going wrong because as he pretended to be on work trips he most likely was living at the ho house on the beach. I am still so stunned and angry that they got away with this and I am still trying to figure out and repair all the stuff because he obviously had no interest in fixing leaky pipes etc. He was too busy tending to ho ho and her big mansion

  • #️⃣1️⃣EX MIL- Called me to talk with DD. She told me just after divorce & after Mr. Cheaterpants took OW to her house. That I will always be her DIL & that I was still young & that if I have to remarry that it was 🆗‼️❓(Is she the Pope?) Just 1 yr after divorce & I am still dealing with DD crying over pics & videos when she was younger & thinking about “good old days”, DD going to therapist this Friday & yes I should find “the man” & get over!!?? I know that might happen to all of us but it is not the answer to “happiness” after all that we went as chumps!

    #️⃣2️⃣ My favorite quote/advise (portion of his crap) from a txt that Mr. Cheaterpants wrote to me & DD “We are still a family just a different one. Your mom cares and loves us too..We just need to learn how to live under these new circumstances and be as happy as we all can be…Your mom and I are still good friends…Life is not easy. In this new life we can all work together and you can do great in school, I can learn to be a better man than I was to your mom and your mom can chase new dreams and be truly happy! Let’s learn from my mistake..let’s come back from the ashes of my poor character as a man and make each other better..let’s make each other proud and let’s make each other the reason that we get up in the mornings to go to work and go to school! Let’s not dwell in my mistake but learn from it! I have the utmost trust and love for you and your mom” That’s what he said❗️

    • Was he jacking off to porn when he texted this to you? I hate your ex to the moon and back!

      • ^^^Your response nomreskankboy is so funny, I can’t top laughing.^^ either jacking off to porn and/or taking a hallucinogenic.

    • #2 🤮 got that too. FucktardX let us know we’d all survive “losing him” (the kids and I) and that though he’d been absent pursuing his “true love” AP and that “new chapter in his life,” the kids and I just needed to “move forward” and accept that “life changes.” He sanctamoniously reminds the kids that “life will be different” (duh!) and has spent probably five days total with them in the last five years. When he does carve out his precious time, it is all about *him and *his new life. X drags out photos of Schmoops and their “many vacations together,” introduces the kids to their sketchy friends, drinks now, and has become so self absorbed that the children now realize how little they know him. sigh What a fucking tool. 😂

  • I forgot to add, these friends and family members, their lives might not as happy as you think, and those side might they really be on. Some family members can be quite cruel, and only the cheaters views really counts.

  • I found very quickly that the tossed off ‘God has a plan’ was certainly NOT helpful nor hopeful.

    If that is true, I am still struggling (depending on the man who wreaked such damage) 10 and 7 years later to figure out why that “plan” remains so painful and punitive.

    • Yes!!!!!

      I believe in God. I believe He has a plan. But i think my little “iamallalone” issue is really NOT in Gods big schene in life. I mean does God really care if you are single or married anyways? Isnt God more worried about if i have faith and i am not out committing sins, more so then if i have a boyfriend or husband?

      Besides i know wonen who are more faithful, more Catholic, more religous then i am and they are still single. Plus they have been praying to God for a man for years.. .

      I am sick of hearing people tell me God has a plan for me. I am pretty sure all God’s plan is to save my soul when i die. I really dont think God plans involves a dating service for the faithful.

      I wish people would stop saying that.

  • My sister in law – married to my cheater X’s brother(who also was a cheater and she stayed) did not think I tried hard enough. Or had my kids confront him on his behavior to try to change him. Both kids did – they are adults. One kid got shark stare and other kid got rage.

    He sucks.

    • mrs vain
      joel osteen the evangelist or whatever he is , always says that pray to god for someone…god has plan for your life…then how come the cheater went to church every Sunday with HO…and then took HO out for a nice breakfast after their big F fest. Guess what I know people have free will to do what they want, but then the cheater can cheat and go and pray about it… and voila, all his sins are forgiven…so what stops anyone from committing a sin. You don’t go to prison for cheating..so what’s to stop them ! Everyone seams to live for today without worrying about the consequences…Do you think HO stopped and said, now wait a minute, I am a catholic on the board at the local catholic church, I cannot F this married man, this charming handsome man that wants to take me to black tie events, help me raise my kids to another baby daddy, feed me, introduce me to business men that will bolster my business, this man that wants to give me money and jewels, NO I cannot go near him cuz HE’s married…NO NO HO would never ever say that…..of course She’s going to F him. It’s all about her and my husband…It’s all about them ! They don’t care. NOthing will stop them, not god, not religion, not the public, nothing!
      Back to your point…what’s god’s plan. I hate that comment too. WE don’t know his plan or if there is one. I know he forgives everyone for their sins. So again, what’s to stop the cheaters? Go to church, pray, screw/cheat, rinse repeat…..

      • I hate people who always think that God blesses everything asshole thing that they do and wants them to be happy, rather than them trying to live a righteous life according to His word and earning God’s blessings. Ass backward. The types you mention are so black and white that they can package things in a way that allows them to sleep like babies at night when the normal population would be wracked with migraines, insomnia and nervous tics at the mere whiff of what they are contemplating. It’s called compartmentalisation. And it’s oh so Cluster B.

        • stig
          its what narc’s do. They can do whatever they want ! then go to church, never flinch because they don’t experience shame or guilt, but they know in their back pocket is that Sunday service that they can go to after a week of cheating lunch fucks and ‘business’ trips with ho worker, then on sunday after sleeping over HO house and pretending to be on a business trip; then take the Ho to church because they gotta pray cuz they had that freaky deaky weekend and They are now going to drive over for their forgiveness to the local catholic church. Say all the prayers,drop money in the basket (the offering) when it comes their way, and they are forgiven ! What hypocrisy. What lies. But in their mind they are doing the right thing going to church after they have just committed adultery for many many years. But never ever miss a sunday to go to church ! What a GOOD Christian man and woman. They are just sparkley good people ! sparkle ho and sparkle Dick washed of their sins

          • I can see this all in my mind. I really feel like some churches should just set up drive- through absolution, as that’s about the level of involvement that these freaky cheaters give to it all. Lip service.

        • Queen mother
          what do you mean I stopped what I was doing ? I’m not the AP. I’m not the Ho. I was the non cheating wife.
          God does not need to forgive me. I have never climbed onto anyone’s husband. That’s gross.
          I will continue to put down the HO’s. That will not stop.

        • I think QM meant God forgives if the SINNER repents the sin. Repents by avoiding the sin in the future. True repentance doesn’t involve a perfunctory “sorry”, do it again, oopsies, sorry. Repeat forever.

          The whole God forgives me, why won’t you? 😞😠 Maddening. JAMF forgave himself, wtf was I so pedantic to not forgive him. So arrogant that he totally side stepped God entirely.

          • that’s why I was so confused at his never miss a sunday in church action. I thought about it a long time. I said if he was there praying, what was he praying about, and if he was going to church, how could he be cheating. I know that sound naïve but when I was trying to break it down, it was puzzling. So I gathered that he was sinning then would go and pray and thought was being forgiven, or at least he must have thought that. Then he kept his secrets and his AP secret. So how did he manage to get rid of sin. No, I told myself the same thing, if he Continued to repeat the sin Then he would not be forgiven. So when he was dying I thought – does he have a clear conscience? What was all the good church going all about?
            . Alas his image was still being managed by all the damage control flying monkeys/family members etc. But there was an elephant in the room….

      • Duped.. .. to answer your question God does not forgive people unless they truly repent and STOP DOING THE SIN.. .. i know a lot of people believe that just because you go to church and apologize means your sins are forgiven.. .only they are not if you do not truly mean it in your heart. if you truly mean it in your heart, then you are not able to repeat the sin again.

        so just the fact that your cheater and his HO go to church and “act” like they are religious does NOT mean they are forgiven and cleansed.. .. . he is just pretending and i am certain that God knows what is fake or not.. .

        Do NOT worry so much about what your cheater and his HO is doing. in church, out of church, at the diner, in bed.. .. . you need to go no contact and heal the pain in your heart.

        everyone needs forgiveness for something.
        good luck

        P.S. in my opinion joel osteen is a fake and only in it for the money.

  • Oneonefourone…..were you talking to Esther Perel or another monogamy “expert”? Ugh!

    At one week post Dday, one friend told me, “He didn’t do it *to* you, he did it for himself.” WTAF? I am doing this divorce thing FOR myself, not *to* him. I’m guessing she was a cheater.

    I hate the betrayed spouse blamers most, the faux christians who are forgiving someone who never apologized to THEM, and the cheater apologists who are ubiquitous. Ugh!

  • Today is Day #145….and 74 days of no contact whatsoever….my divorce process is dragging its ass like a dog scootching its butt from needing their anal glands expressed. 🤨

    My new council and his team are hopefully handling this in my favour. I’m still uncertain if my stbxh has been served with the Rule to Show Cause order for not abiding to the Temporary Settlement Agreement? I’m also uncertain if he’s returned to court on the possession charge against him? I do know that the BS Rule to Show Cause order against me was continued until 6/14 and will hopefully be dismissed for lack of any evidence. (I was served for WRITING him. 😐 His attorney said I threatened and harassed him which I never did. I merely shared with him some of my journal entries and referred to the vile OW as a WHORE as that is what she is.) He cheated on me for 4+ years, I’ve proven his adultery and MONTHS ago, I “entertained” the notion of reconciliation even though I didn’t fuck up our marriage. I snapped out of that mindset on 3/13, communicated my last message to him on 3/15 regarding him needing to come and take our senior basset hounds as I am unable to care for them on my own. Instead of him responding, I was served on 4/6 and threatened with Jail time for writing. 😐

    To my knowledge, NO ONE in the state of SC has ever been put in jail for writing, being non-violent and attempting to salvage their failed marriage. (I’ve never been arrested, have no criminal record and do not desire to ever be incarcerated.) My new council assures me that I shan’t be.

    Since all of “this” has occurred from 1/4/2018 (the day he admitted to his affair and also abandoned “us”), I’ve lost over 52 lbs., he was charged w/possession, is residing w/that vile OW in Beaufort, SC w/whom he shares the same disgusting proclivities (drugs) and doesn’t abide to the Temporary Settlement Agreement that he proposed and agreed upon. The possibility of jail time for him is quite real. He’s also hidden marital assets, recast numerous mortgages w/o my knowledge or signatures, cleaned out the equity on our home, wiped out our Joint savings/checking from our credit union, removed my name from accounts and has traded in bitcoin and crypto currencies. Our taxes from 2010-2016 have also been pulled for review, my Father who was a Special IRS Tax Agent for over 30 years, has filed “innocent spouse” on my behalf and is taking care of that aspect as well as my 2017 taxes. The stbxh lied on his affidavits and has not provided requested interrogatories so now I have to employ a forensic accountant. He and his Mother I suspect have co-mingled accounts, they’ll be deposed either before mediation in July or afterwards AND that is why this is likened to a dog scootching its butt across the floor.

    My 77 year old Mother, bless her heart, said to me, “the wife’s always the last to know” amongst other joyful stingers. 😐

    My 79 year old Father, bellows every time we speak, “He’s a loser! It’s the 1st day of the rest of your life! You’re gonna be svelte from losing all that weight!” 🙄

    My friend Marcy says, “Don’t you dare consider taking him back or I’ll shoot you w/my gun!” (she wouldn’t really but she’d probably cold cock me). 😳

    Oy! 😬

  • In case anyone is interested, Carolyn Hax has a letter from a Chump today. The Chump is now dating a guy who’s wife divorced him because he cheated on her. LW is asking “once a cheater, always a cheater” question because the guy admits he ‘made a mistake’ and regretted it. If you want to comment over there, here is the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/once-a-cheater-doesnt-necessarily-mean-always-a-cheater/2018/05/27/a0a8e62c-6063-11e8-9ee3-49d6d4814c4c_story.html?utm_term=.4d04b208546e

    • If he regrets his mistake, why doesn’t he go back to the woman he divorced, and truly make amends?

  • I think the worst was his therapist who told him after 1stD Day when I was reeling from this news and had a 2 month old baby, that I was “like a pinball. Be patient, eventually her quarter will run out,” in response to the jackhole lamenting about how upset I was. He also told him that it was hard for me because I needed “to own” all the ways I was responsible for this. ALL of the eye rolls and rage.

  • My sister: “put on your big girl pants”. (I detest that stupid ass saying, moronic)

    My other sister: “my husband and I agree, that if one of us cheated it’s the other’s fault for not meeting their needs” (she despises my ex and always did, so this was weird)

    You need to think POSITIVE, you are being very negative. (well he was conning the appraisers, the courts, the kids, throughout the divorce).

    An affair can make a marriage more vibrant (from the ex, he did some ‘research’)

  • “An affair is just a symptom that something is wrong with your marriage”.
    I heard that from STBX family and counseling. Really??! So rape is just a symptom of an overactive sex drive?

    • My never married male BFF said that to me. Tried explaining that A was the actual problem, but BFF didn’t get. Sometimes people just don’t get it. Until they do. Like, once it happens to you, then you’ll understand. Suppose it’s easier to forgive depending on who is saying that, your relationship with them and the intent behind that.

  • HR rep at my workplace to whom I had to give my FMLA paperwork from my therapist so I could take some time off while in crisis: Oh, you’ll be fine. I thought something BAD happened to you, like you had to have surgery.

    • curlychump
      all of their lives are a POS that is why they make comments. My job said after he died and I had to go out on FMLA while he was dying so I could take care of him, “oh, he’s been dead two days ! WELL you have to get back to work because you only get two days for grieving” “why didn’t you tell us he’s already been buried?”
      Then as you can imagine I had to grieve the death, the loss of my life from finding out that big whore at work had been fucking him, and all of that, and I had to return to work. I was in a trance and could not work. I was sick and crying everyday. It was raw. NOBODY at that job gave a shit. I have realized that people don’t give a F, people are heartless, everyone sucks and they can all go F themselves. Present company on here excluded of course

      • Thats truly messed up. Mine not quite on that level. My work pretended to care for about three days then went silent on me and sacked me three months later and moved a women into my role who had been sniffing around in those three months, they were all in on shoving me out the door. It was heartbreaking as the woman I worked closely with, I honestly thought had my back, but she shafted me big style. I am very weary of people now and yes I have trust issues. Hope you are surrounded my good people now. First sign of people of low empathy or compassion and I’m out of that friendship, only want to be around people with good hearts and if that means just the kids and my cat that is fine.

        • lady b
          I am truly sorry that you were let go at your job That is similar to what was happening afterwards, they were trying to manage me out, you know having been out and then coming back after a spouse dying and all, well they made it their mission to find reasons to mess with me, to manage me out , of course they could never let on it was just because of my having been out and they took that opportunity to f with me. So I basically realized that I was just being messed with on every turn. I was surrounded by horrible beasts, and it was just layers of more of the same. I could not believe there was no reprieve from it at all. So like you have trust issues now. I am trying to make new friends and If I never have a new person in my life, I will be fine with trusting myself and being my own best friend because that’s a hell of a lot better than being tormented and destroyed to the core. You have the right idea about your children and the cats. That’s peace of mind and enjoyment of life. You don’t need anyone with negative energy tearing you down

  • Oh, so so so many stupid things I heard. SO MANY. Most of them were some version of “But he has changed, why can’t you accept that?” even when he was still lying about everything, and even while I was still finding stuff that he was doing. It’s like everyone took everything he said as gospel truth. “But he says he has stopped!” “But he says he is willing to work on the marriage!” “But he says…” Yeah, he says a lot of dumb shit, you morons.

    But really the thing that was the hardest for me to deal with was the blank stare people gave me. Have you all experienced this? It was often like they couldn’t even process what I said.

    Switzerland friend: Why are you saying that Cheater put you in danger of prison. Isn’t that over-dramatic? I’m sure he didn’t do anything illegal.

    Me: Cheater has been stealing and putting my name on fraudulent documents.

    *total blank stare*

    Two days later…

    Switzerland friend: Why are you saying that Cheater put you in danger of prison? I’m sure he didn’t do anything illegal…

    • That’s their mind doing the blue screen of death and rebooting as they cannot process what you have just said. They don’t know who to believe, you, who is saying things that seem wildly outrageous things about the way X has been comporting himself, or him, who has a silky, much more digestible and feasible sounding explanation (She went crazy and because she is bitter and angry is smearing me).

      • Now when you hear a spouse say, “She went crazy and because she is bitter and angry is smearing me,” do you automatically think 1950’s Stepford wife abuse?

        • Yep, we joke about it now, because it’s such a well-worn cliche. The old, “we split up because she went crazy” usually translates to, she got sick of putting up with my unreasonable shit/spending all our money on dead-end business ventures/ useless hobbies and self-glorification.

  • Someone told me that the reason my X cheated and left is because I wasn’t devout enough. Had I put God before my marriage, my marriage would have lasted. I was flabbergasted. Two years later her husband moved out, they are divorced now. She goes to church and preaches constantly. Don’t you know she’s flipped the script and now it’s God’s will. You cannot make this shit up.

  • “Hey kid. Sorry about your problems but nothing lasts forever!!”

    My response. “You know what? Fuck you!”

  • What hurt me was two friends together saying I should have known my husband was a cheater. They called me “stupid “ during that conversation. The part that was hard to understand is that they were both left by their husbands many years earlier but had no compassion for my situation. I went NC with them 5 years ago and they haven’t tried to reach out to me.

    Other friends just listened as I ranted and raved and eventually got my act together. They let me process at my own speed.

    I learned a lot from this. Now when anyone I know shares a problem, I just listen. I don’t tell them what to do. I think I have become a better friend.

  • When classless was caught with 1st OW back in 1998 I agreed to see marriage counsellor.
    A few weeks in she d me why I was so upset about xh affair. I stated at the time it was the lies and deceit that I couldn’t cope with.
    She proceeded to tell me I was taking it far to seriously!!! She said …and I quote as I’ve never forgotten….
    Classless has affairs to have conversations with people as he has no close male friends…so you just need to think of his affairs are like when you go for a coffee and a catch up with your girlfriends!!!!”
    My chin hit the floor I was flabbergasted….Classless just sat there looking all smug.
    This from a female marriage counsellor…..I walked the door and never returned..
    Although it took me 20 years longer to learn to walk out of marriage and not look back.

      • Never even considered that tbh. Was twenty years ago and I think she would be at least seventy by now.

        • Give it a try anyway. My parents incompetent, gas lighting couples counselor is still practicing at age seventy !

  • My sister who is happily married for 49 years..said to me after my 34 year marriage ending in divorce
    “You should be happy now & I wouldn’t cry one tear”

    She never experienced the humiliation & pain of the cheating narc who destroyed my family. To this day she thinks it’s time to be “over “ it. Tells me to go out
    & be happy. I’m over 60 & trying to start over is impossible for me.

    She has to be in my shoes to know what’s it’s like. 😞

    • Kathleen
      Oh, you are so real. I know exactly what you mean…I was told the same exact thing…I also can relate to experiencing the pain and humiliation and the aftermath, of a cheating narc. and his family. and the ‘fallout from the façade, lies, secrets, etc. It destroyed a lot of my life. I said the same thing to myself, how do I recover from the pain and humiliation and then the getting away with it, and everyone is driving new cars in his family because they all had life insurance on him. And they made off with my stuff out of my house. etc etc destroyed !
      And then you get the ‘you should not cry a tear, you should be happy” Oh yeah.Right. They have no idea what I went or am going through.
      Try to start over in your 50’s…nobody out there…yes, weird, drunks, druggies, yes they are available, but no decent men…give me a break…It’s impossible

    • Easy to say when you’ve been in the cheap seats eating popcorn and watching everything unfold from a safe distance, almost impossible when you’re the one up on stage in the spotlight. It bespeaks to a certain emotional shallowness when people have that unhelpful attitude – those people have either decided from their armchair many years ago that the dirtbag partner was no good and this was just the natural culmination of it all, so why should you be surprised, and they’ve moved on emotionally already from their, no investment/no risk take on things, or they think they are giving morally supportive advice that in no way takes into account any of your thoughts or feelings on the matter. Not everything in life can be summarised in a few sentences, put into a box and wrapped up with a nice bow. More like scooping messy entrails into a plastic bag, thanks. We really need people who will say, well, this fucking sucks, you must be wrecked, and here I am to help you pick up the pieces when you need me. Those types are the true friends. Not the armchair psychologists cum amateur life coaches.

    • Kathleen– isn’t that the truth?!? Such wise people who’ve never faced adversity. Well when her h dies I hope she “gets over it” quickly!! Yes it’s so easy for a 60 year old to start over. We are in great demand 😬

  • POS bro in law sent me a private fb message after I changed my relationship status from married to separated stating that he found it of “particularly poor taste” that I would reveal private matter on social media. Because being left pregnant and caring for a toddler wasn’t humiliating enough, he had to add shame into the mix.
    I get pissed off just typing this out. He’s such a two faced POS.

    • A POS indeed. Not your shame to wear. Sounds like an entirely appropriate and rather restrained response to me. Maybe you can block him and go no contact?

  • fedupchump
    your bro in law and my bro in law are both POS flying monkeys, secret keepers for the husbands of ours (or was) in my case, otherwise how would he know your business? POS bro in law, knew your husband was a POS and was at the ready to stick up for him, to make you look like the bad guy ! Tell him to pay attention to his shitty lackluster loser life and stay out of your business. Tell him to look in his own backyard

  • well meant – hope you can find someone really nice now – kind thought! would also dislike the idea that disordered X might have been my only partner ever, however after decades with a narc right now I need to find my own balance, enjoy the peace, recover, regroup, provide a safe, sanctuary for the kids, basically survive well before thriving that way.

  • The X is a popular local politician. I had just heard one of the members of his party’s inner circle proclaim about the importance of upstanding morality in political candidates. So I asked this guy how he could believe that, yet still support X for political office. His answer? “Infidelity is pretty normal”. He felt that I was overreacting.

    The OW, a psychiatrist, told me to “get over it and get on with my life”. She apparently also told the X that he was “perfectly normal” — which is true, if “normal” equals living a double life and gaslighting me (and her) everyday for four years.

    • my therapist told me that guys that go on business trips get bj’s right on the elevator ; that they pull the stop button and women do this to them…I said I had never heard of such a thing…he said your husband was a narcissist and they don’t care where they get it or from whom. The therapist’s comments were shocking..but I think after 40 years dealing with narcissists and the victims of them, that he must have known what he was saying…He also said that when you were on trips with him and he disappeared he most likely had his AP in another room in the same hotel….
      My eyes were opened ….

        • queen mother,
          I learned so much. I mean it’s shocking and devastating. I never even knew I was in the midst of a narcissist. I never knew why their were such strange mindfuckery and word salad and riddles and confusing things and not sticking up for me and playing games, you name it. But you would have no idea what was happening because it is not explainable to the normal mind. and he was so everything perfect in every other aspect that you don’t suspect it. Charming, classy, super intelligent, successful, fun, funny etc. You just never would know what had just ‘hit you’ with the behavior. The secrets, the lies, the not revealing really anything. I stopped to think wow, did I ever really know him? I mean it’s mind blowing. But my point is, I found out about a narcissist and then it all started to come together. And apparently things like my therapist mentioned actually happen and I am sure now that this was probably happening behind my back.
          Talking about heart stopping. I was frozen on a chair after the therapist enlightened me. I don’t know the medical term but I could not move a muscle. I think I was in shock

          • That’s why I was in a state of suspension for at least nine months as I was processing what the hell was going on in my relationship with narc 2

            I just had no clue that there were people like this

      • My older male therapist told me similar stories. I believe it’s true. I never believed things like this happened but I do now.

        • brit
          on my car ride today I listened to some narcissist videos, the narcissist that tells all said that they have so many secrets, you will never know about, their serial cheating, years of it, and everything else. It really creeped me out that you really really DON’T know who you are dealing with.

    • Sick.

      My principal is a cheater. He told us in a staff meeting. This explains everything. I wondered why the other teachers had no respect for him. Why the men teachers were openly belligerent. Why principal couldn’t discipline a student sent to his office. Why the office staff defied him. Why principal would text mothers who hadn’t picked up their students on time. A lot of things started making more sense.

      He is our moral authority. When he slackens his moral responsibility, that sends a message through the whole system: relax, the standards are not so rigorous now, take it easy. Cheat on your test. Take corners on your strenuousness. Have an emotional breakdown. Yell at a student. Take down a student who is fighting. Steal from the teacher. It’s okay now: principal cheats on his wife.

      So yah, your cheater is a politician, and his supporters aren’t freaked out about the damage it does?!

    • Have you ever noticed how the get over it seems more like a command. “Thou shalt get over it and move on.”
      Here’s mine. Thou shalt kiss my ass.

  • Well this particular “friend” of the marriage, whom I just learned this week is one of the people listed as a character witness. (Side note: she’s only listed in the 6 pages of witnesses he provided. There’s old friends, our accountant, banking staff, mortgage lenders, stock account personnel, you name it, he listed it)

    Anyway, this woman smugly told me that “divorce is a horrible thing to put your children through”

    Oh, okay! And cheating on their parent isn’t a horrible thing to put them through!

    Obviously she’s a subscriber to the mentality, “it’s not the behavior, it’s your reaction to it”

    She shunned me and became a cheater apologist a long time ago, but to testify against me in court… that’s a new fucking low! I hope Karma rams her cheater apologist views up her ass!

    • Remind me of something that happened.
      There was a woman who was being fucked over by her cheater husband and the other woman.
      They wanted sole custody of her children who she treasured with all her heart.
      They were making her life a freaking freaking mess.
      She asked me to testify as to what I knew and what I saw when I went over to their house because my son was a friend with their children.
      I testify to the truth of what I saw which was that the house was a pigsty and that the husband had told me that he was the owner of some fancy restaurant in the bay area – he was the bartender.
      And even though I opened peoples eyes to the lies that were going on I didn’t feel like I was going to have any weight whatsoever in changing the mind of the adjudicator.
      But there was a recess and during the recess I saw the woman who was the caseworker and I went over to her and I told her that I wanted to talk to her for a moment and I told her everything I knew about what a piece of shit this guy was and that I just wanted to make sure that she knew that before she submitted her final recommendation to the court.
      She was charmed by that piece of shit and she looked at me and she told me thank you very much for letting me know these things.
      I had to leave and so I didn’t know what happened until the next day when my friend texted me and said that she was awarded custody and they have visitation.

      I prayed about that and I think it was the prayers that helped the situation more than anything.
      So I’m going to say a prayer for you that everything works out really good for you and the court proceedings and that whatever is decided it’s going to be to your greatest benefit.

  • I was crying on someone’s shoulder, whilst still in shock. 40 years married, and she said “ will you get married again”
    Funny hadn’t started to think about that yet!!!

    • The amount of people who seemed more concerned about my future romantic life, rather than the one that had just fallen apart, was shocking.

  • I am lucky in that few people have said anything insensitive to me. Most have been very supportive.

    I did have one person tell me “He must really like this woman if he moved out so he could be with her”. I thought that was an odd thing to say as well as a bit insensitive, but then I found out she was Schmoopie 1.0 so now it kind of makes sense. She wasn’t really talking to me, she was talking to herself.

    • Good insight there, Chumpinrecovery.

      Yah, people didn’t say much to me either. When Big Gossip first caught wind of what James Bond had done, and confronted me with her nosy questions, I shut down her bitch-ass self right then and there: “I don’t want to feel like every time I come out that I have to answer questions about James Bond and where he is!”. Big Gossip spread my retort around, thereby putting her “ability” to good use.

  • I thought you two were so in love, high school sweethearts and all, I thought you would be together forever… well hello… so did I!! Cheater asshole had other plans

  • All in one conversation with a former mutual friend:

    Wow, I’ll have to figure out for myself what really happened–your stories don’t line up.
    Sounds like you tricked him into getting caught.
    What was your part in it?
    Maybe you’re just not the marriage type.

      • Divorced, with her AP for eight years now but not remarried yet. Completely trashed her ex-husband, so much so that the affair seemed justified and I supported it as helping her get out of a dangerous situation 🙁 I wonder if any of it was true, and I wonder what crazy stories she and my ex swapped about me when I moved out?

  • My ex-MIL said she was surprised I stayed with her son for as long as I did since he is “lazy and the most selfish person she knows”. Then when I told her he would do the same thing to the OW her response was, “I hope not she has already been through so much”.

  • My ex mil actually said maybe they are just friends. Wtf. In denial much? My neighbor who I thought was my friend said well you know how men are. Really??? My ex’s family then proceeded to embrace his work whore and forget I ever existed. On the day my divorce was final I lost my home my marriage and my beloved dog (ex had him put down and made our daughter tell me) all on the same day. Not one of my of my so called friends and ex family contacted me. I am now surrounded by friends and family who actually support me. Fuck the rest of them. They suck.

  • When I told my neighbor that my ex had cheated & fled 3 weeks after dday, he said, “He didn’t stop by to say goodbye to me.” WTF!!

  • “Affairs are symptoms of something wrong in the marriage,” my mother in law intoned to my husband when he admitted to her what happened. It took a few years, but I was having an argument with husband when he brought up his mother’s sage advice despite the fact that I refused to accept responsibility for not meeting his unvoiced needs. I said, “Do you know who says that? CHEATERS.” Oh, yes, his mother had multiple affairs on his dad. The story he swallowed was that she was so unhappy in the marriage because he was such a difficult man (which he definitely was), she cheated. Because that justifies it? Why didn’t she just leave the marriage? Nobody has ever posed that question. Because then they would have to face the reality that his dad, difficult as he was, had nothing to do with her character. She brought that one on herself.

    Being Memorial Day, I have one more that’s a little more selfish for me. Talking to neighbors I don’t like, I mentioned it had been 7 months since my mom died. I’m still deeply grieving at times. This woman played the one-up game. “Oh, yeah? At least your mother died. My mom lives on and has no idea who I am!” I graciously outwardly conceded that she is suffering much more than I am. Why would anyone minimize or compare another’s grief? What makes them think it can quantified?

    I remembered why I didn’t like them.

  • I heard a lot of stupid shit. But the one that bothered me the most, and I heard it a lot was some variation of, “My husband would never cheat, he knows I would kill him!” Um, yeah, ok.

  • Yep, the old “it wont last, the slutty fuck will find someone new to get her talons in”. It WILL last only because neither of them will admit they were wrong in fucking up two families

  • “You are the common denominator,” is the one that irks me the most.
    It’s generally a response to my expressing being cheated on by all my serious partners, which is 3.
    I met my ex-husband at a young age; I don’t have that much dating experience; I chose some immature characters.
    But, it feels like I’m supposed to accept the responsibility for their duplicity, with this statement.
    I fucking hate it.
    Been single for 3 years, which has allowed me a great deal of time and energy for introspection.
    I am more prudent now, when choosing a mate; and more confident in my current life choices.

    • The correct response is, “No, cheating is the common denominator. I made poor choices, that’s all. I know better now, and I choose more wisely. So how about you? How’s [name of person’s partner] these days? I heard he had an Ashley Madison account – oh no, hang on, that was someone else. At least, I think it was someone else. My memory is getting terrible these days. How about them Dodgers?”

      If people are smug because they’re insecure, then I suppose it’s mean to play on those insecurities …

      • lola granola

        i’m all for the zingers as get backs to the rotten people with their rotten comments…I get that we are not supposed to live in the past, but that does not warrant the shitty comments. I gather that most likely the people with the comments actually were jealous because even if the husband cheated, they were still jealous towards the marriage, because I am sure they had pathetic lackluster lives so they thought they could insult you with their comments.

  • The spouse of one of RonBurgundy’s co-workers said, “oh, you just can’t help liking InternWhore.” I said, “Surprisingly, I can help it. “

  • Two comments, one from each of two former friends:

    First:
    “I’ve been on all three sides of the adultery triangle, and I think you’re over-reacting”

    Second:
    “After my mother died I had to go through her papers and take away all the photos of her with her lover. She looked the happiest she’d ever been in her life, but I just didn’t want my father to see them.”

    yeah, right?

  • roaring
    OMG
    he’s a pedophile. He’s the next America’s most wanted
    wow what a creep. 12? so he admitted to being a predator….

  • One of my married friends upon hearing that my ex-boyfriend had discarded me again and for the last time said, ‘What do you expect? He’s a childless executive, and you have two kids,’ and ‘Come on, RockStarWife. You saw this coming.’ She has said insensitive things more than once. I no longer reach out to her to participate in activities, although I met her over 40 years ago.

    My mother, upon hearing that my husband had cheated on me, said, ‘Lot’s of people cheat (on their spouses).’ So prevalence of bad behavior makes it acceptable? Years after my abusive, adulterous husband left, she still tries to get me to do whatever he wants–even if it harms the kids and me and my parents! I don’t get it.

    • RockStarWife, make room for me on that bench. My mother, herself a serial adulterer to my father, brushed off the years of my ex’s betrayal, lies and gaslighting with a breezy “Well, that’s life in the big city.” She neglected to say that’s also How the cookie crumbles or another cliche meant to normalize appalling behavior, including her own. I love my mom, but wow, I’ve learned the hard way that she is not one to turn to for emotional support.

  • I got no “Sorry that happened to you”, just “Well he’s been so good to me. I’m forever grateful to him”

  • Besides ALL of our ‘friends’ totally dumping me, I had some guys say things like ‘well, you must not have been giving him what he needed at home.’ Grrrrr. Guess working a full time job, keeping the house spotless, putting a home cooked dinner on the table every night, having lots of sex and keeping fit just wasn’t enough.

  • when Cheater wife finally admitted that it wasn’t a ‘one time thing’. It had actually been going on for 6 months.

    Someone who had been supportive to me in the beginning says to me “well obviously something was missing from the relationship”

    Made my blood boil. Haven’t talked to that person since then.

  • Therapist: “Her time is her own and what she does on her time is her business. So long as she comes back to you, you should just learn to be fine with is.”

  • “Friend”: “She told me you weren’t giving her enough sex. Sometimes we all have to make compromises for our relationships.”

  • OW: “She would never lie! I know you gave me [this irrefutable evidence of her lies], but I don’t believe you!”

  • When I found out my husband had been cheating on me, my ex mil said ‘Don’t you want him to be happy. You should be happy for him. She is really nice. You would like her’. Thank goodness I don’t have to put up with those sort of comments anymore!

  • My favorite comment thus far from the woman supervising visits between my ex and our 8 month old daughter. “You can really tell that he loves her so much…” I’m sorry, but does him being nice to our daughter negate the fact that he was entirely emotionally abusive during my entire pregnancy, birth and the 12 weeks postpartum? And…don’t you think he’s putting on a show? Isn’t that what Narcissists do?

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