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Dear Chump Lady, She knew in her heart he was a cheater

Hey Chump Lady,

A Belgian man met me in 2017 and told me he was leaving his wife of 25 years and wanted to “change his life” by moving to the states. He love bombed me for 3 months and took me to an emotional place that was total bliss.


Turns out he was a serial cheater; I was mistress number 11; he LOVED cake and would do anything to enjoy his cake.

I feel like a total chump. BUT my question for CN is about his wife.

He told me in graphic detail:

She suspected him 23 years ago (in a 25 yr marriage).

He was scared to death that she would find out. That means: SHE KNEW IN HER HEART that he was a piece of shit cheater.


She stayed and posted on her 6 social media sites that he was “my dear husband and honest”.

Has anyone in CN met a woman who knows in her heart that she’s married to a rotten liar, and stays, FOR 25 YEARS?

Who is this woman?

Thank you,

hvhs woman
(High Value High Status woman)

Dear Woman,

Any person of actual high value doesn’t date a man with a spouse. People with actual status (which I’ll define as integrity, not a Gucci purse) have enough intelligence to twig that new acquaintances don’t abandon and immigrate for our fabulousness.

How exactly did that conversation go? “Lovely to meet you. I’m chucking my wife of 25 years and changing my life. You wouldn’t happen to want to sponsor me for citizenship?”

Anyway, I’m sure it was total bliss. Must’ve been a real kick in the teeth to realize you were number 11 in the rotating cast of soul mates.

You aren’t a chump, you’re an idiot. There’s a difference. As I seem to have to point out to Other Women daily, being lied to by a cheater doesn’t make you a chump — not knowing you were investing in a CHEATER makes you a chump. You knew he was married. His wife didn’t know you existed. This is not a level playing field.

Oh right, but she KNEW IN HER HEART he was a cheater! Does that make you feel better? Does it absolve you of some inchoate, undeveloped, icky guilt feelings? Well, she knew. Ergo it’s okay to fuck her husband.

No, she did not know. As you yourself point out, he was terrified that she might discover his cheating. Why would he be terrified for her to find out something she already KNEW? He enjoyed cake. And cheaters maintain cake by mindfucking chumps. Let’s spell that out more clearly — cheaters maintain cake by ABUSING chumps — gaslighting them, blameshifting the cheater’s shitty actions on to the chump’s inadequacies, risking the chump’s health, making unilateral decisions about their health, welfare, and children’s home life.

You, on the other hand, simply learned you weren’t special.


Do OW get mindfucked? Sure. But the harm here isn’t equivalent. Your mindfuckery is that you’re fabulous. So fabulous he’s going to leave his wife for you! Until he doesn’t. You don’t have a 25 year investment, a mortgage, or children. You don’t have in-laws, you didn’t stand in a church and swear forever in front of your entire family, you don’t have a quarter century of shared holidays and pension funds. You don’t have shit. You have the seductive notion that you’re Amazing and Better Than The Chump, who so richly deserves abandonment because she fails to be as Amazing As You.

Fuck you.

Why do you care what she does or thinks on social media? Enjoying the pick me dance, are you? Why would she swear her husband is honest? Because he mindfucks her daily telling her he is. Because she wants to believe it. Because she’s probably unwittingly engaged in the pick me dance with a phantom. She thinks the phantom is her failings, that she must improve upon — when really the phantom is YOU. Perhaps she feels if she publicly swears fealty to her cheater he will bless her with his attention. Attention that seems to wander a lot.

Why does she STAY? Because she’s invested. Has she had a D-Day, or merely suspicions of one? I don’t know, and you don’t know either because all your information comes from a known liar. In any case, it’s none of your goddamn business what she does. And it’s certainly not your place to get some contact high of superiority off her suffering.

You want to help a bitch out? Contact her with some hard, cold evidence and out your affair. Apologize. Then she won’t know in her “heart” he’s a cheater, she’ll have actual FACTS that he’s a cheater.

What she does with that evidence is her business. She might chase unicorns. She might dump him. But at least she won’t be in the dark, which is where he’s kept her, and you’ve kept her — aiding and abetting in her abuse.

Who is this woman? 

I’d ask yourself that.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • wow….just wow! Chumplady is on it today! Thanks 1,000,000 CL for your clarity and cutting to the chase with this self important skank.

    • Hey OW – please keep in mind that while you may have thought she knew in her heart (and I agree with CL that she probably didn’t) the fact of the matter is she definitely didn’t trust her gut that her spouse sucked. Love bombing does that to you. All those little lies (you’re my best friend – you’re the love of my life – you’re the only woman for me ever) are believable until the cold, hard facts slam you into the ground where you stay for a long time trying to figure out what the hell happened and how to get back up.

      So take your high status and go fuck yourself instead of another woman’s husband.

      • I really hope this OW tells the wife!! She should!

      • WhoamInow,
        Reading your post is like reading the story of my life with Cheater, I don’t know how many times I heard “you’re my best friend,” “I wouldn’t want to be with anyone else,” Best friend??
        Something always felt “off” when he’d say “you’re my best friend,” I wasn’t sure how to reply.
        Now I know it was because he was full of shit, and the best reply would have been to tell him to fuck off.

        • Sigh…..when I look back I realize I was totally chumped from the beginning and I never had a chance because I believed in someone who had/has ZERO values, ethics, morals, character…….

          But I am free of that pile of mess now, no contact, and with no intentions of ever letting that crap back into my life.

          • The company whore that fucked my husband and willingly got involved with a known married man, interfered in my marriage and embarked on a 15 to 17 year affair with my husband. The skank was living in full blown fantasyland that she was his wife and she fucked him allll those years, all the while she was loving it I am sure. Loving that she knew he was married, even called my house phone, I saw the whores name and number on my caller ID 2 months before he died. Why, because he was taking her golfing. I found this all out after he died. So next time, SKANK when you decide to embark on an affair with a known married man because all you are thinking about is your twitching Twat and what’s in it for you, remember this, you are causing hurt and pain on people, maybe you don’t care because it’s all about you you think and all you care about is yourself and how much you can get for your ‘services” yes your services because clearly you are a whore that cannot find a single man so you figure if you climb on someone else’s husband you can convince him to marry your sorry ass. NO it doesn’t work that way. All it does is ruin families and wives that don’t deserve this betrayal or treatment. Just remember someday and it will come, you will suffer the consequences of your actions. It will come around and get you somehow. Either somebody’s wife will kick your ass OR…..But remember this: whenever you mess with someone else’s husband / and someone elses life it never ends well. It always ends very very badly. When you think you are getting away with it and are complicit in destroying someone’s family or wife; you really will never have a good day. Trust that. It’s true. Believe me, the guy thinks you are nothing but a whore. He is actually laughing at you.. He’s laughing at how dumb you are, how easy you are, how gullible you are, what a stupid lay you are..He does not really respect you at all. This message is for the whore OW that wrote into chump nation.

          • WhoamInow, I married a person who didn’t exist. He’s an imposter who conned me into thinking he and I had similar values.
            I was further brainwashed listening to his endless lectures on his integrity, loyalty, adding an occasional “you’re my best friend,” most likely said after a recent fuckfest.
            All lies, he has ZERO integrity, no values, loyalty or compassion.
            He doesn’t have friends which explains why he doesn’t know what one is.
            During our marriage I unknowingly pick me danced to earn a glimpse of the man I married.
            Sadly, being 100% Chump, I danced myself into not knowing who I was.
            I eventually lost my self-respect.
            Not going to happen again.

          • Me too. I realized recently that my ex probably married me to please his father. He leveraged my success to look like a successful adult, which impressed his father. 26 years later, he’s still trying to impress his father. He father called constantly and Ex would stop whatever the family was doing — dinner, movie night, card games — to answer his call. Ugh.

            And I was so proud of myself for marrying for love, not money. Now he’s making the big bucks after I gave up my career 16 years ago to raise our daughter so he could pursue his career. Now he gets to pay me spousal support until he retires.

        • Yup! After wreckonciliation, I doubted. And doubted, and doubted, while he reeled and reeled and reeled me back in, and finally believed. Thirty years, a tonne of love and sacrifice, three kids, mortgages, working in our business without pay, real fucking life. Ugh. It took 8 years and two degrees to “heal.” Then, as I announced I felt better, loved him to pieces, and was so glad the wilderness years had finally ended, he announced he had met someone else – via secret online dating accounts for nearly a year – three of them, tens of thousands of text messages to dozens of women. All while telling me I was the love of his life, and he was so sorry, and would never let me down again. Fucker.

          It gets better. The one he left for, is a mother of three, a widow, whose husband died of karma (AKA prostate cancer) after nearly twenty years of making her life utter hell with serial cheating with anything that moved. But,hey, ex TOLD her he was single, so yeah, that sounds about right, as we then had to live together for another seven months. I even TOLD her that he WAS NOT single. Dumb bitch. Never fixed her picker. Will get what she deserves, hope he does too.

        • That’s how i feel about the guy i’m with now. I‘m beginning to think that he’s a pathological liar. Been dating him 2 years. Everything feels “off” with him. My head is spinning and i dont know which way is up anymore. When i spend time away from him, i start feeling centered again.
          I’m 50 years old this year. All my boyfriends and husbands have cheated on me.

          • I found this site when I googled: how do I fix my picker. CL wrote the best article. Good luck and I hope you are still reading through this site for insight and help. thi

  • Awsome, Chump Lady tell it like it is. I have no sympathy for any women who knowingly cheats with a married man. They deserve what ever shit the cheater serves them. Just like my POS cousin. She knowingly and happily screwed around with my stbx husband. She believed all his lies about me. Now that he dumped her ass she is crying and acting like the victim. I guess it doesn’t feel good to be dumped like garbage.
    Chump Lady is right it is not the other women s business how the wife feels. Or if the wife suspects she is married to lowlife cheater. Unbelivable how the other women tries to justify their shittyness.

    • My ex’s OW KNEW he was married with two kids, but did not care.

      I don’t totally blame her for his actions, but she KNEW and did not care.

      I told him, “I hope you treat her as well as you treated me” and I meant it. He thought I was paying him a compliment.

      Guess what! The rumor is he is cheating on her also, while I am happily married to my husband, a chump also.

      • Yep…just found out about a week ago that my STBXH, who left me after Christmas to run off to the OW, actually slept with someone else on Dec. 22nd (not her). I have an email from his secret email account created to communicate with the OW that tells her on the morning of the 25th how much he loves her and counting down the days left in our home, yet two mornings before he woke up alongside a one-night stand.

        It was freedom when a buddy of his called me called me last week to fill me in on some of my STBXHs behaviours. He felt that the way I was treated was not fair and wanted to assure me that what happened in my marriage was not my fault. This buddy didn’t even know that my STBXH was basically co-habitating with this woman since new year’s. He keeps his own place just to take the kids on the days/nights he has them. It’s because the STBXH is living a double-life, keeping the OW away from his real life so that he can continue to look like the good guy to our mutual friends until enough time passes to introduce the OW and not look like he left me for her.

        The freedom comes in knowing that there is no way that the OW is the love of his life. That she’s the only one who understands the real him. She’s being USED to. Bahahahahahaha!!! He’s already been unfaithful to her. Sure, he could sugar-coat his one-night stand with her by claiming that he wasn’t quite back with her, but I’ve got two months of emails in Oct/Nov/Dec of him professing his love for her and asking her to wait until he’s checked out of this marriage so that he “knows that he left because the marriage is over, not because of another woman.”

        What a douche. When did he become such a dog? His friends will attest to the fact that he wasn’t this way in his 20s, yet he’s like this in his 40s? Well, the OW can have him and they can ride into the sunset in their dysfunction and burn to ashes.

        I would say the OW is being chumped, but NO. She’s being KARMA’d. She knew during the year long affair that he was married. Honey, you get what you pay for.


      • I hope you treat her as well as you treated me” ….. Wish I would have thought of that line to use on him when I had my 20th dday and finally had enough!

    • I swear the OW must be a troll.

      Please God, tell me that a woman like the writer of the inane oblivious letter is NOT real!

      If that is a true letter and reflects the “thoughts” of an actual OW, our gender has some work to do on sisterhood.

      WTF?? And why on earth would you date or marry a cheater? Even if they found Jesus, & it was years later, to know they had cheated on someone to whom they made vows, is enough for me.

      There are too many good guys out there without that prior record, to take a chance on a “marital felon.”

      In any case, great response CL. Good grief.

      • Believe me, women like this really exist! Met one just yesterday who is still wondering if the charming married cheater she ran off with decades ago (he promptly cheated on her, multiple times till she left) is “the love of her life”, not the decent devoted man she subsequently married. These women don’t consider the pain of the chumped wife and kids, preferring to believe “he was really unhappy in his marriage”

        • Vastra, they don’t think about anything other than themselves.
          It’s all about them..

  • Why would he be terrified of her finding out something she already knew?
    Such a genius yet logical question.

    • I know its not good to get stuck on the ow’s logic. Some things just don’t make sense and they will never make sense.
      But the statement “he was terrified of her finding out, that means she knew in her heart he was a cheater” is a lot like 2+2=5.
      I wonder how in the hell she would ever get 5 from 2+2.
      But I’m sure in her mind it makes complete sense.

      • That’s just how high status women think. We wouldn’t know because we are too chumpy.

        • yeah, I wonder what’s it take to be high status. Being high?? Tall & able to reach high places?

          Or Married to or divorced from – a rich chump?

          The self proclaimed label of “high status”, (which is relevant HOW??), her ability to overlook HER own role in sabotaging a woman she’s never met, and looking to shift blame onto the actual victim, and lacking the empathy chip, are all hallmarks of a narcissist with a personality disorder.

          Ugh. There goes another one spewing out harm.

          I hope the Wife learns of this site and joins the ranks of the “Awakened”.

        • spoonriver
          high status/…..isn’t that a high priced escort… calling herself a high status whatever…she can call herself whatever she wants, I prefer to call her the cum guzzler…she can swish that around….all the sloppy seconds !!!! Bwahhhaahhahhaaaaaha

  • I anticipated the tone of the response as I read the letter but wow – you so nailed it, Tracey. Although I object to this (and any other knowing) OW viewing herself as a (albeit highly superior high status) victim and find it hard to believe they don’t know what they are going to be served by CL/CN it is, nevertheless, enlightening to hear her perspective.
    I am sure the details are different but the general principles are probably pretty similar in most cases – accepting the cheater’s narrative and viewing the spouse with contempt and scorn, never mind a complete lack of empathy. Like my cheater, my OW, presents to (most of, at least) the world as kind, generous and, in her case, holier than though. Except where that doesn’t suit them – which includes me, obviously, but also my children. Entitlement and lack of empathy have certainly ruled there.
    I hope HVHS is real and I hope she reads your reply (and the rest of CN). I suspect she won’t hear though – but it isn’t about her (how annoying for her!)

    • I have had exactly one interaction with my ex husband’s OW/new wife. It was via email. It was exactly as you wrote–full of contempt, scorn, and a complete lack of empathy for me. Essentially, she was very offended that I would “slander” her to the family and be angry at what happened…after all, she and my ex couldn’t help falling in love, and I should understand and be respectful. Ugh. Barf.

      I don’t know why it surprised me…somehow it is still unbelievable that they can really complete all those mental gymnastics! But they all do.

      I am working on meh, but I confess I have fantasized a fair amount of some glorious karmic retribution for this woman.

    • The OW in my life KNEW cheater was married (as is she), but needed to follow her bliss and sneak around with Mr. Cheaterpants. She also managed to convince herself that she was “doing me a favor”. Whatever. And I can guarantee she considers herself a HVHS woman, because somehow a PhD bestows that upon a person.

      Sorry, OW. I would take an honest trade-school drop out with character over YOU any day. All you are is an educated piece of shit.

      • Iveleaguechump

        the OW — she might have a PhD pussy and a summa cum laude twat…..
        in any case she needs a case of summers eve…..
        should we ask the OW if she likes sloppy leftovers?

        • My husbands twat OW big HO Howorker had degrees that were almost the same as my husband and she had big bug eyes that were rolling around on facebook. I thought, wtf? This chick is FUGLY. BUT she impressed him with her big degrees, her beachhouse brothel and probably the gap as wide as the grand canyon. YUP she got her KARMA. BIG TIME. No more loverboy….and she cannot fucking laugh at me behind my back anymore….so F Her and the pole she rode in on !!! or the broom !!!!

          • I meant youtube not facebook…..that video was distressing. Her bragging about herself. She really thought she was the ‘madam’ of the century….

  • I think I heard a whip crack at the end of that post. God love you, Chump Lady. You’re simply the best! Perfect response. I enjoyed that immensely ???? thank you! ????

    • No that’s the sound of the OW HO on her broken pony riding off into the sunset with her married beau ! With the bottles of Viagra….

  • “High status” is incompatible with “side dish.” To reverse a recent meme, this woman is free salsa that comes with chips. Chumps, on the other hand, are guac. Pure fucking guac.

    • nomar ???? I’m loving the Mexican food metaphors. You’re on fire today ???????????? ????

      “Pure fucking guac” ???????? ????

    • CL slammed it……….. Bravo!!!!

      Nomar you cracked me up with your Guacamole metaphor….too funny!!!

      I’m Joining the food metaphor band wagon ….

      Hey High Quality OW you’re a fast food ketchup packet, a single tic tac, a piece of parsley trapped in your teeth.

      CL was right you’re not a Chump you’re an idiot….

      • I prefer the metaphor of “used as much as a ketchup bottle in a truck stop.”

        Ketchup, honey. You ain’t no A1 steak sauce….

      • To quote that great philosopher Yosemite Sam, other women “is so stupid”……..

    • Pure fucking guac is, as Chipotle says, well worth the upcharge. $1.50, baby!

    • nomar
      I watched a video about ho’s that screw married men and the analogy was, why if you have steak on your plate would you eat the damn asparagus and leave the steak?
      so HO OW always thinks the guy is going to go for the asparagus and leave the steak…never happens.
      Also if you have a mound of potatoes with the gravy, the gravy being the gravy train (the married man) and the HO OW is just a fuck spuddy….ok enough of my jokes….LOL

      • Oh it happens, I got dumped in warp speed, never saw the torpedo coming!
        She was a ho-worker, she pursued a married man of decades with children, and won. I had no idea. I’m thinking she must be quite a narc, just like HVHS, and evidently…stbx.

        • michelle
          Oh I get it michelle, my husband was with his ho worker, she was a big bold ho. She waltzed into hospice like she owned my husband ! The biggest mind blowing experience of my life. I just experienced his death 10 mins prior and then this big ho waltzed in like she owned the place and like she owned him. I guess she was making sure he was dead so she could collect on the trust fund. Yeah, so wonder what was going to play out had he not died? Big whore never came and said condolences to me that’s why it wouldn’t take a brain surgeon to realize this big stallion was climbing on my husband for years and years. I’m still not over it. Never will be. But I realize that these howorkers have ALOT of time to get close to our husbands, study them, and then screw their ass into leaving their wives. OH they are slick and wise and clever. These howorkers know exactly how to play on that married man. Why? because they know what they are after, somebody with a great salary, somebody that looks great, that’s fun and exciting. Who else is going to want the big HO?

  • great response, CL, for sure!
    And from what I am reading here, I am not real sure the OP had ever met the Belgian Cake-Eater in real life. If online then the OP is WAY MORE OF AN IDIOT than originally thought. Who knows who the Belgian REALLY IS?? Or what he’s about? Or if he’s employed? or an immigrant hop-skotching his way to the US? Plus, Belgians are way way way different than Americans in, not only language (they speak French but are often multi-lingual) the way they interact, think, work, and express themselves is different.
    I have an employee who is Irish, who married an American lady and has lived here for a while. He said that he had a very difficult time adjusting to the US, even tho he expected it to be easier just because he spoke the same language (albeit with a different accent!)

    • Right?

      America is scary in ways that foreigners cannot imagine.

    • And yet cheaters all think alike no matter where they are from

  • This whole post is basically why I didn’t feel sorry for the OW that my cheating ex-husband was planning to go ring shopping with 5 days after DDay when I saw that he was also fucking another women and trying to hook up with anyone else he could. And who’s to say she wasn’t cheating on him, too? She was already cheating on her husband.

    You sleep with a pig & then you’re surprised you got muddy? Not my problem.

      • and you cannot put lipstick on a pig! (OW) I hope the OW really gets mucked up ! in the mud ! LOL she deserves her Karma served on a platter with champagne !

  • When looking back on what happened with my then-husband and his mistress, I’ve tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, at least at first. He is a known liar and I doubt he told her the truth of the situation. He probably told her that we were separated, getting a divorce, that he hadn’t loved me for years, etc. He didn’t tell her that we weren’t legally separated (just living apart), that neither party had even filed for divorce, that he’d been intimate with me just days before he got together with her and had told me he was still “madly, deeply in love with” me.

    But the fact is, I reached out to her and told her the truth. She promptly refused to hear it. I sent her one message on Facebook and, weeks later, one snail-mail letter, and she immediately began wailing that I was “stalking” and “harassing” her. That was her choice and is entirely on her.

    I get that there are OW who don’t know they’re OW. She became not-one-of-them. The OP is not one of them, either.

    • Rarity… I got this too… I tried to tell the OW – no, I actually had a binder filled with FACTS that I was gathering for the divorce… her response, “I have no interest in his history with you. He has told me everthing.”

      THIS IS WHY YOU DON’T CONTACT THE OW/OM. They are delusional.

      Take your facts to divorce court and then go no contact. Karma will take care of the rest, I promise.

      • I agree that often the OW/OM are delusional.

        wish that Karma, according to the Western definition that I think is being used here, would ‘take care of the rest.’ I think that some of my exes have happily ridden off into the sunset with my replacements (OWs or not). I’m not holding my breath for the ‘Karma bus’ to hit my exes.

    • Schmoopie knew damn well that I still loved my ex and wanted to reconcile and that I was blindsided by the whole thing. She just didn’t care. She sort of pretended to care in order to make herself seem like a decent person, but it was all an act as part of the pick me dance. She was going to “sacrifice” herself and suffer forever pining for him for the sake of his family, but that was all bullshit. She made him visit her in person to break up with him after he had already broken up with her. Then two weeks later she sent him a movie invite because she just missed him so much. This cycle repeated several times and worked like a charm on my ex. If she had really meant it she would have gone no contact and stayed no contact.

      • chumpinrecovery
        its all about schmoopie and her twictchy uncontrollable twat …she’s nothing but a nasty HO
        sorry I have to say what I really feel about the skanks…

      • I look at it as a gift. She was a gift to me, taking him and his big lies. Not my problem anymore. Be thankful he is gone. Makes more room for real men who have real characte and integrity.

    • In the aftermath of D-Day, most people told me ‘don’t be angry at the girl, it wasn’t her fault’. They weren’t the ones who heard my X and her speak in really shit terms about me. Yes, the onus was on my X to be the gatekeeper: to work on our relationship (if it made him unhappy), to honestly tell me about issues he may have had, or to call it quits. Yes, it was his responsibility. But surely, surely, she had a tiny part to play as well? She could have said no, I don’t want to be with you until you break up? What about sisterhood?

      • Exactly! All that and “she’s not the one who made vows!”

        I don’t care. I’m still allowed to think she’s a bad person. I think knowingly sleeping with a married person is poor character, and makes you a bad person. End of story.

        • mightye
          and the nasty HO has helped waste all my young life on a deceitful situation that I had no knowedge of. She had all the fun at my expense and she was complicit in destroying my marriage all because of her twitching twat and the need to have a once good man help her because she was from the hopeless lonely hearts club. Nasty skank whore. She is obviously a sick bitch. She moved to my town in a rental 6 months after we were married to be able to fuck my husband to take him away from me. Believe me her lay was not better than mine. But her nasty twat’s goal was to get money from him, be lovebombed, treated like a queen because that seasoned whore obviously had a shoe in, working with him and she knew he was easy manipulated …she knew how to play him. And she was winning. She was blowing him for years. So any dumb guy that thinks with his dick would enjoy that. She’s nothing but a cunt. AND I wish all the worst for her. I hope she’s choking on sloppy seconds. NO wait, I cannot wish that on her, because she is off hurting some other family now, probably and most likely, another married man, of course. That’s how she gets her money

    • Rarity – same here

      when OW would contact me to berate me for fighting back and not just “accepting and getting over it” I refused to participate in a dialogue with her.

      Instead, every text – i’d kindly respond with only a screenshot of my ex telling me he loved me, talking shit about her during the pick-me dance, and how she’s a drunk when they were broken up. I hope she contacts me again – b/c my next screenshot is of him telling me she’s a cow with a stapled stomach (bariatric surgery) who collects her social security check every month (survivors benefits – she’a widow) and how I work hard for everything while she just collects.

        • Someone told me once – she’ll never unsee those screenshots!
          I guess they probably haunt her when she is alone and wondering where he’s at…

  • Yeah, sorry OW, but no. You had an affair with a married man and now you’re trying to lessen the guilt by telling yourself his wife must have been complicit in some way. Leave her out of this. You knowingly had an affair. You believed his lies because you wanted to. Believing a married person when they say how much they love you and that they’re totally not in a true marriage blahblahblah is like believing a prostitute that tells you you’re sexy. They’re saying it because they know it’s what you want to hear in exchange for what they want from you. If you believe them it’s only because you’ve knowingly chosen to believe them because it makes you feel good to hear what they say.

    Do some soul-searching about the fact that you’re willing to throw your morals out the window in exchange for flattery and attention. Then tell the wife the truth – she deserves that much.

    • Love the analogies today! First the salsa/guac, then “believing a prostitute that tells you your sexy” ????

  • This is a classic.

    The “she always knew in her heart” is some first-grade bamboozling bullshit that cheaters use on, well, everyone. It’s getting all fuzzy and out-of-focus on ethics—and shifting or at least sharing the blame with the chump, so that the world out there and their own brain can cope with it without the whole thing exploding in their face. It’s saying: look, I’m almost ethically non-monogamous because she must know —instead of doing the honest thing and saying: look, I want to fuck other people, is that a deal-breaker for you? do you want to fuck other people? do you want to fuck other people with me? It allows them to live with it and to keep doing it. My cheater still says to everyone that I always knew, but is completely unable to explain why I asked him for a divorce five minutes after I found out.

    • Oh, I knew something was up, alright. But when I asked him directly, “Are you having an affair?”, he denied and gaslighted me. Because…cake. Retrospect says I should have hired a detective.

      • Oh, that’s a classic too, Ivy! I got the same answer when I started asking—because, it turns out, I wasn’t asking the precise question: they were not “affairs,” just prostitutes and one or two-night stands with women he met in bars. Which allows him to say that he “never lied to me.”

        • Oh, yes. He had those, too. They weren’t, technically, “affairs”. So why did he not want to tell me about them? The mental and verbal gymnastics they use so that they can deny lying is absolutely stunning.
          In my case, though, he FINALLY admitted he lied, which made him, shall we say, “uncomfortable”. Because then he actually had to acknowledge to himself that he wasn’t a good person.

          Truth sucks that way.

      • My still-husband (!) denied at least 5 times having an affair.
        All the while telling the OW “it’s not the right time to tell my wife”.

  • Mike drop CL ! You nailed it – thank you for giving us a voice to say what we feel and take back our pride !

  • I stayed for 35 years, not 25 years. I had to deal with his secretary for 27 of those years. When she bought him a shirt and tie for his birthday in 1990, I remember clearly telling him that there is no way this is acceptable to me. There was so many more instances of clearly inappropriate behavior in the following years. I asked, he lied. I was busy doing all the family stuff, giving up my career to raise the kids and at age 57 I finally get confirmation via speaker phone one night in 2016. How can someone lie to you for that long? How can someone lie to you when you are caring for a sick child dealing with cancer for years? I cared for everyone and everything with our family and what did I get? Being alone at 58 and losing an intact family. I am really trying to not be bitter, I am really trying to be a better person, I am really trying to forgive myself for putting up with a his crap for so long. I lost so many years on someone that basically used me. So my new tactic today is every time I think of my ex husband and the jesus cheater, I put them in a “box” in my head and throw the box to hell.

    • I am so sorry Lost Wishes. 32 years married here. Mine left for secretary cheater too(blond and 12 years younger but a definite downgrade!). Actually, I kicked him out as he was a cake abuser.

      You are not alone. Big hugs. It does get better. I am over a year divorced and two years DDay. I am getting a life. It is peaceful. The financial piece is the toughest as I was a SAHM and did it all so he could move up the ladder of success. So here at 59, no career either. And mine was a Jesus cheater too – he’s back to church now with the ho worker.

      I like your box idea. Thanks!

      • Dr. Cheaterpants is still going to the Catholic church after I divorced him for being a serial cheater. The latest ho I found was DD14’s 20-something asst sports coach in our kids’ Catholic school while he was volunteer coaching. I can’t help wonder what he thinks when the sermons on adultery and lust are the topic. I’m guessing it falls on deaf ears as that certainly doesn’t mean him, his was twu wuv and they’re special.

        I think of it like a player that is fantastic at the sports drills but can’t put that skill to work in a real game. If church is meant to set your moral foundation with the rules to follow and you are breaking several of those then what’s the point?

        • Dr. Cheaterpants isn’t even listening to the sermon. He’s planning who he’s going to seduce, or thinking about how good he looks sitting in the pew.

          Cheaters don’t want to be around others cheaters! Those liars and low-lifes? With their disease and chaos? No way! Besides, there could be a drive-by shooting from an angry spouse or boyfriend. Cheaters want to hang out with the good folk — we all do!! Good people are safe. Good people are for fleecing.

          • The only man I have ever known to use prostitutes (so shocking that he is my ex husband’s best friend /s/), openly cheat on his ex wife, and generally treat women like objects or servants depending on the situation–trolls for women at church.

            He puts on the religious shtick “religiously” and is now engaged to wife #2, an unsuspecting victim he met at church. It is incredibly difficult to watch from afar. I just hope, for her sake, that he has changed from the way he was when I last spoke to him, before my divorce.

            It is so true and also truly unfortunate that mixed in with the thoughtful and sincere people who are religious, there are also selfish, narcissistic predators.

            • I met my JesusFreak husband on Christian Mingle LOLOL. Our love was so blessed, so ordained by God, that there wasn’t a dry eye in the house at our wedding that took place exactly 11 weeks after we met. Sure, I was wife #2 but anyone can make a mistake, right? What matters is that JesusFreak’s heart is so pure, so devoted to his faith, that God has blessed him with a new wife, who is everything he’s ever wanted (i.e. a hot Chump who adores him). We must get married IMMEDIATELY so God can bless us even more! The power of our pure, godly love will be a testament for the ages!

              Within months, he was going to prostitutes — pardon me, “getting massages” –paying for porn, and having text-based (maybe more) affairs. We had an absolutely insane four years of chaos, constant moving, constant job changes, financial ruin (hidden from me), and me trying to manage his constant “aches” and “sad feelings.” I am the Michaelangelo of applying spackle!

              When his lies piled up to the point he could no longer hide them, I became Public Enemy #1. This was all MY fault. If I’d been a better Chump, he wouldn’t have had to do anything of that. My hero-worship and home-cooked meals every day/night made him feel so vewwy unloved. Naturally, God then brought him his next TWU WUV, Dumpy Smurf, the REAL one this time. Their love of cheating is second only to their love of God. They post about their “faith” and how “thankful” they are for each other. She “knows his heart” in a way I never could, so she won’t have any of the same problems with him. His life is perfect now, as God wants it to be for his beloved, obedient son…except for me out there, still married, knowing his dirty secrets, telling the truth and trying to ruin his perfect life.

              • Wow, Sparkle Tits, I thought I found and married a great liar/terrible person through online dating, but you found an even worse excuse for a human being than I did!

                So sorry for what he’s put you through. Ugh – your Jesus cheater is just gross!

    • I was older as well when it all fell apart. But I look back on those years and realize I got to be a full time mother to my children, I had a lovely home, a wonderful career. My POS ex was only ONE part of my past life. As for intact families……everyone has their own burdens to carry, whether their family is intact or not. No one has an easy road in this life. But we play the cards

    • Yah, lost wishes. And what makes me mad / I don’t get, is how I was supposed to win back Low Character’s “respect” if our marriage was to have a chance (some advice I was given). Wait, what? Hunh? How? Oh my goodness! Where to start?

      The “where to start” was giving him a swift kick in the pants, to the curb.

      It will be a year in July, since my emancipation. And I am Closer to Meh everyday. Some days I am at Meh. The other day, I am asking God these days to pull out from my heart those last remaining strands of bitterness and hate — and guess what? Bonus!! Instant face lift. Sorry, asshole, I’m happier without your bullshit, and prettier too — so bye, and meh —

      • ” how I was supposed to win back Low Character’s “respect” if our marriage was to have a chance (some advice I was given).”

        Wait? WHAAAT? Let me guess, some RIC marriage counselor? You didn’t cheat, but you had to earn his respect again?

        I’m so glad you effectively said, “Screw that noise!” and broomed his ass to the curb.

    • Married for 32 years at disclosure (in my case there were two types of other woman, one real, and the others all fantasies of women he acted out with himself); stayed for 35; moved into my own place in late March. My focus now is on healing.
      Lost Wishes, I, too, am trying to forgive myself, for the pick-me dancing, but also for all the behaviors I now see, looking back, should have been intolerable to me, but that I, like the wife Tracy describes, turned into my own failures.
      Thanks, Lost Wishes, for reminding me of the coping mechanism I used earlier: I used to say that all the things I couldn’t do anything about would go “into the closet” in my head; when I realized they were all still there waiting for me, I changed the metaphor: “off a cliff.” And that’s what I’m going to do now when I find myself thinking of him or feeling tempted to have sympathy for him or untangle his skein; I’m going to cut off those thoughts by pushing them “off the cliff” (accompanied by hand gesture).

    • I’m so sorry. In the same boat after 35 years. 33 of which I thought was real. Not sure what real is anymore.

      • 35 years here. And the DOCTOR married OW last month right before Mother’s Day, and did not invite our 3 adult kids. He has not seen any of our children since we separated 20 months ago.

        When he remarried, he emailed them to state HIS TERMS for our kids to have a relationship with him.

        Among other things, he says Not to bring up the past, it can’t be changed”. He also requires that they treat his new wife and HER daughter “with respect – b/c HE LOVES THEM VERY MUCH and THEY (OW and HER teenage daughter, )both have been thru a lot.” Unbelievable.

        I bear no ill will to the daughter and don’t care about the OW. X is a great liar but of course, she knew he was married and she didn’t seem bothered that NONE of his 3 adult children wanted to meet her or see their dad. To me that is a red alarm. I suppose I’m at fault of course, by “brainwashing” the kids against the DOCTOR…

        My real challenge is self forgiveness for someone as smart as I am, putting up with so much ABUSE, for so long. My kids saw x for who and what he is, long before I did.


        Oh well, my 2nd Act in Life will not be a gloomy epilogue. It’ll be an adventure and reclamation of MY values and goals and of My Life.

        Or so I tell myself.

        But heck yeah, I wonder about the Karma bus. How on earth my x could lose all 4 of the people who loved him the most and yet seem to be unscathed…is a mystery to me so I remind myself

        X is NOT unscathed so much as furious at others (me, mostly, and the “ungrateful brainwashed kids I guess).
        I cannot keep projecting my own values onto him. That is how I stayed mired in an illusion.

        At these times I would assume he feels shame (b/c I would, if I were him!) NEWSFLASH they rarely feel shame at all.

        Nope, they RATIONALIZE doing really shitty things to people who they OWE Loyalty to. So it’s a waste of time trying to get them to see.

        I Know I cannot hinge my happiness on x to see the light. I already spent well over a decade not seeing the truth of who and what he is.

        Here’s to hoping the kids and I all (AND ALL OF US CHUMPS)

        heal from the cheater’s and OP’s poison.

        • Substitute CEO for doctor and our stories are very similar. Let’s face it, our cheaters worked in a world where their jobs got them instant respect. Problem is they started to believe they were special and their OW were only too ready to feed that narrative. My Cheater keeps telling me how OW respects him. He betrayed his wife (me), lied to his investors, had an affair with a direct report and messed up a company, spent company assets on affair, lied to his daughter and parents and employees, and so on and so on. So what part (other than his wallet) do you think OW respects? Like your cheater, he told parents and daughter they “must” accept OW because she makes him happy. They declined. And of course that is my fault. Sorry for your experience as I am sure you are sorry for mine (because we are actual human beings who care about others. Cheaters and OW really don’t care about anyone but themselves). We will survive. They will also survive, but they are smaller meaner people and others in the world will learn this. They will lose their kids and they have lost their reputations. I wonder who other than OW my Cheater could call in the middle of the night if he needed help. No one. That has to be lonely. They have to know in some part of their soul that they are awful selfish beings. I think that is the karma bus hitting them. At some moment they know they are bad people.

    • I’m so sorry this happened to you. The unjustice hurts! It will get better! You are mighty!!

    • I had 29 years. I’m a year and a half on from DDay. One of my sons is angry at me. His dad is srewing with his mind. He wants to know why I didn’t try harder to Reconcile. I haven’t wanted to go into the ugly details of what his father has done so I’m the baddie.

      • I’d go with telling the kid, “my married relationship is not your business and I won’t discuss it with you. However, you don’t have the right to tell me how much cheating and lying I’m supposed to accept in a relationship. Please don’t bring this up again.”

        It lets him know that he’s overstepping and that you have your reasons – without going into the messy details.

  • I want to comment early before the OW trolls appear as they often do when Chump Lady gets a letter like this. Here’s a tip sweetheart: If someone “tells” you they’re leaving their wife; that means they’re still living with their wife, ergo you’re not a chump, you are a cheater. It’s really quite simple. Why is it that the so called enlightened people make things so complicated?

    If you are going to take the word of a (so called) man who has lied and cheated on his wife of 25 years then the misery you dwell in will be of your own doing. Stop worrying about why his wife of 25 years stays with him and start asking yourself why someone who love bombs you for 3 months can take you to “an emotional place that is total bliss.” Yikes!

    Become a Patron everyone!!!

  • ChumpLady I salute you. Do the right thing self-righteous cheating woman and let this poor chump know that she´s a chump (and you´re a piece of shit)

  • Not that this makes any difference at all, but when my cheater got with ow #4 and the one he left me for, he told her he was a cheater, it was cool because she was also a cheater.
    His angle was to spin it like he always knew it wasn’t right with me and he had all these affairs but always came back home to try….until her. She was the love that he could not deny.
    I’ve only had a couple interactions with her but there is this air of superiority about her like “I’m everything you could never be……watch and learn.” She’s right, she is somebody I could never be.
    Yes ho mistress, watch and learn. Her day is coming…

    • Yeah, stock up on the popcorn and wine, OW#4 will get her comeuppance.

    • I bet she’s alcoholic, or will be.

      She’ll get migraines, from all of the cognitive dissonance.

      What’s she gonna do when cheater starts it back up again (he probably never stopped) — take the gaslighting? Put her head in a blender. Go right ahead. Just don’t come ’round crying —

    • I’m going through this exact thing right now but mine is leaving me for ow#3 that he was sleeping with while I was pregnant with our daughter! Everything you wrote is exactly how he spelled it out to me! He won’t cheat on her because she completely fulfills him! She was cheating on her husband too

  • Bravo to your response Chumplady!!!! I have had the OW try to gain my sympathy . Nutjobs!

  • My exs ow, didn’t want her kids she wanted my ex. apparently my ex choose me, apparently I won, but nobody wins, you cant trust your partner, the ow doesn’t want her kids but wants mine, she told me she wanted to be my kids “auntie”, she actually asked me to feel sorry for her, excuse me, she actual stood outside my house, screaming for partner to steal from me! Fuck that! I think cheaters and ow have a different view on reality, I got on a bus once and she called me a human splinter, must be relating to their relationship

    • What? See there’s a disorder in cheating, a kind of demon possession that gets worse and worse. A human soul looses all warmth and goes over to the dark side.

    • OW didn’t want your kids either but they were a link to your husband.

  • After 20 years of marriage with what I know now as a serial cheater, 2 years of gray rock, 1 1/2 years of divorce, I can see the shit show much clearer. The first schmoopie early on was a howorker, twice divorced and history of cheating on both husbands and apparently couldn’t have kids. Two suspicious secretaries in between the next confirmed schmoopie (our iclouds were joined and I could watch him pursue her in real time). DD14’s 20-something asst sports coach in our kids Catholic school, he felt sorry for her because no one ever thought of her or included her, blah blah.

    What do all these women have that I don’t have? All are dumsels in distress. I used to think Dr. Cheaterpants who is quite nerdy, was naive to these women that saw dollar signs with the MD at the end of his name. Now I see that he is a predator. There’s nothing superior about any of these women or girls really other than they are weak and stupid enough to fall for his shit. When his real personality pops out after the love bombing and you see the entitled, selfish, stingy, disordered man that he is, even the weakest of these ho’s should see he was no prize at the bottom of the cracker jack box.

    Two years later and I am FREEEEEEEEEEEE!! And I’m actually glad his young ho schmoopie is distracting him long enough so I can get to safety.

  • THIS. IS. KARMA. not shcadenfreud

    Remember Lovey Howell on Gilligan’s Isle? ——–> HVHS much?

    ((Chump)) thought…GOT MILK?

    Lovey’s thought…OMG, I’m out of Oiko Yogurt!? Tanning sesh at 9

    I’ve got to arrange to get a 20′ steel CONNEX container delivered to my small cottage (cheater-free zone) to unload a house with 13 years of Good(?) memories. That gives me time to sell this shit..OR BURN IT. I’ll take the stuff I want, pics of the kids growing up, useful or saleable stuff. The rest. Pffft. GOT ANY SHIT TO DO LIKE THAT TODAY!?

    $75 a month on a 6 month lease. OK, might not sound like much to you, Yeh? $375 pays my electric for the summer. Or it, feeds my dawgz for 15 months. Might need that for a new well pump. Get where I’m going.

    Tracy ripped you a new one because your letter was so heavily baited with morsels of premeditated knowledge and actions, when you fell on that dick, you had a Freudian slip of morality.

    Ponder this for awhile,… How ODD of GOD to choose the Jews….So when I get to meet the ‘Big Guy’
    I wanna ask 1 question, ” Dude! WTF happened Fuckwit wiring?”

    ” WHAT SHALL IT PROFIT A (WO)MAN IF (S)HE LOOSE HER SOUL”? OH! That’s right, you must not have one.

  • “No, she did not know. As you yourself point out, he was terrified that she might discover his cheating. Why would he be terrified for her to find out something she already KNEW?”

    Well Snap, BAM.

    I think the “she knows, we have an unspoken agreement” was one of the rationalizations he used.

    And yet, we would have an ACTUAL conversation about what sort of pizza to order, so why an “unspoken” agreement to abandon monogamy. When I put the pieces together that this may have been the case, I said to him “if you had sex with someone else because you thought I was doing so, then you made a terrible mistake”.

    but that (like every other sane thing I ever said to him) got lost in the murky pool of his selfish mind

  • CL – you had me at “Fuck You.” LOL… the audacity of these people. If a man starts chatting you up at the gym and he is asking you out and telling you things like “we’re taking separate summer vacations this year”… “we’re telling the kids about the divorce just as school is starting”… “I’m moving out next month.” “No, I haven’t filed yet.”…

    … then guess what… HE IS NOT SINGLE. Sweet Jesus. I get so sad some days thinking about women who are this desperate and why are there so many women with such low self worth to think that either it is OK to sleep with a married man and destroy a family OR that as long as he’s sleeping on the sofa, “hey, he’s separated”. And, Mr. Sparkles final OW did that… and she had two little kids!

    Simple rule: if they aren’t divorced, they aren’t available. Move on. Nothing to see here. Why is that concept so damn hard for these High Value High Status fuckwits?

    • I think its because they are lonely, delusional fuckwits that carry an ‘I’m Special’ card.

      They see a man who has stayed with a woman even though he is unhappy and think they can change him.

      They’ve had the one night stands and the lotharios only out for a quick piece and the delusion makes them believe the married man can commit to them ~ if only he is happy.

      Pure bullshit.

      Fuckem. Oh sorry, that’s right ~ our husbands did.


    • I don’t know how much of it is desperation and how much of it is ‘mate poaching’. Basically, if someone IS married, then they were good enough to BE married. So they are a better bet than someone who is single. I say if that is your outlook, there are plenty of people who divorce BEFORE cheating, or whose spouse has died, who you can date with clean hands.

      I don’t get it. I can recall sitting in the balcony at the Uptown Theatre, tossing popcorn on the balding pates of married men who were OBVIOUSLY cheating when I was in college.

      • I am dating a guy who has never been married and he is way better than any man who cheats. He is a little dull, but that means he isn’t an emotional roller coaster, he isn’t an addict, he is employed, he is sane, he has no major health issues and he isn’t an asshole. It also means he wasn’t just willing to settle for the first woman who would have him.

        • Exactly. But chumps aren’t OW/OM.

          I hope the two of you are having lots if fun!

        • Beautiful South Song – I love you but your boring.
          Boring, normal, predictable sounds good to me, I need me one of those, someday!
          Drama and chaos are addictive and mess with the bodies fight or flight. Im enjoying coming down from the unwanted high of the last 13 years, the twilight zone is fading.

    • CL has a post about dating post divorce and one of the first rules is dating those who are available. She goes into some detail on how so many people get this so wrong and one of the first things is if they are married, they are not available. Seems so obvious, but as evidenced by today’s post, so many people still get this one rule wrong. Sigh…

    • The ow in my case had the gall to ask me if I didn’t think that my husband deserved to pick who he wanted to be with. My reply was ….”Absolutely he does. Unfortunately his turn is over . He did that when he married me. ” The the woman got crazy and came running to me to tell on him that she thought he was cheating on her! Unbelievable. I was stunned. This is bat shit crazy…that is all I could say.

      • Too funny..She is an idiot! As my dad says give them enough rope and they hang themselves.

      • Yeah, he gets to pick…he gets to pick which door I throw his shit out of the house!

  • Suspecting is still not knowing. It is way different suspecting then when you actually KNOW. I suspected many times during my 12.5 that wasband was doing something he shouldnt. I even sudpected he was cheating but i never KNEW until Feb 9 2014 when he brouggt his girl friend to met with me in the park.

    Suspecting is Not knowing. Take it from someone who has been there

    • Wow Mrsvain. Good thing for me that never happened with James Bond and any dumbass he might bring to the park, cause, and I’m not proud of this, but I might be in trouble with the law. Yah. I’m pretty sure I would start swinging fists, pulling hair. I cannot guarantee that I would keep my body calm.

      • ya, not my best moment but i did punch him in the face and hit him a few times while pushing him around.. .. i would have beat the crackhead down also but thank God something clicked that she was not worth it.. i think it was because my youngest was 8 years old at the time, and he was home with his 12 year old brother and my 20 year old son was watching them for me. i had to get home. if i went to jail who would watch my babies? my 20 years old was not ready for that yet. haha.. .. saved my ass i guess.

        the only thing i regret is i went home and nicely folded and packed the rest of his shit in boxes.. . i now wished i piled it in the yard and burned it. .. .

    • ” i never KNEW until Feb 9 2014 when he brouggt his girl friend to met with me in the park.”

      Holy crap. What stopped you from punching him in the nose or hitting him in the back of the head with an iceball?

      • well, to be honest .. . i almost kicked HER ass as she sat there in the passenger side of his truck all smug and heartless.. ya, she knew he was married. she knew he had kids at home waiting for him.. .. .. she saw what we had and decided she wanted my husband.. ..

        but as i was just about to beat the crackhead down, he started trying to pull me out of the truck. i hooked my arm on the steering wheel so i could talk/yell at her dumb ass and he was trying to pull me out.. .. TO PROTECT HER!!!!!!

        and yes, i did punch him in the face. and pushed him.. .. she started yelling at me to “leave him alone” and “she would kick my ass”.. .. she did nothing but run out of the truck and stand by the tailgate while i continued to hit him.. ..

        and then i bossed up and let him go
        i drove around in a daze and actually ended up out in the boonies lost as hell in a town i have lived in for 25 years. hahaha then i made it home to my children.. .. . and called him to tell him to give me the 200 to file the divorce papers. .. . we got into words and i hung up. she called me with his phone so she could tell me off. and that was the end of it for me because i knew his ass was sitting right next to her. listening to the shit she was telling me HIS WIFE! and not doing a damn thing to protect ME.. . beside it hit me in that conversation, that i never met this chick so she did not know me. That meant everything she thought of me was due to what ever lies wasband had told her. when she told me she was still married, i actually laughed and said you 2 are perfect for each other and hung up.

        i refuse to talk to her although she tried her best to get me to. if she gets on the phone, i just tell her i have nothing to say to her and hang up. she hates it. LMAO.. . she will text me all sorts of shit. how i just need to grow up. how i just need to accept they are a couple. how i just need to get over it.. .. i never respond to her crazy.. …

        it has been over 4 years since my divorce (march 20 2014). we actually have not seen or heard from wasband since january 2017. poor little sad sausage. … i stopped chasing him down to get him to talk to and visit his boys. And the boys stopped asking. .. .. we have peace and happiness. i have my job, my house, my truck, and most importantly my children and grand children.. .. he is still miserable and his tru wuv who supposedly “respects” him so much more then i ever did now literally beats the shit out him, throws bottles at his face and they fight every day.. ..

        • “we actually have not seen or heard from wasband since january 2017. poor little sad sausage. … i stopped chasing him down to get him to talk to and visit his boys. And the boys stopped asking. .. .. we have peace and happiness. i have my job, my house, my truck, and most importantly my children and grand children.. .. he is still miserable and his tru wuv who supposedly “respects” him so much more then i ever did now literally beats the shit out him, throws bottles at his face and they fight every day.. ..

          You are the bomb!

  • She doesn’t know he’s a cheater. You did know he was a cheater, fucked him anyway and got hurt. So who’s the idiot here? She’s not nearly as stupid for staying with him as you are for fucking him in the first place. Oh yeah, and she’s a good person. You are a selfish self-centered waste of space. You need to stop focusing on the wife and work on fixing your character.

  • This is the part I am still trying to figure out. OW thinks she is special, nice, rescuers & there is moral compass. I am a little bit upset (not jealous since I know she won a turd) My DD is going on vacation for the 1st time since divorce to OW’s house. I am shopping & getting her ready to share with a snake for a few days. I do not hate her since she was not the only one in the whorem but the fact that she knew he was cheating & now she is playing the “nice” person. Sometimes I wish I could call her , insult her & warn her. But at the end I will look crazy. ????????

  • The writer fails to realize that cheaters believe as the French say that ‘all cats are gray in the dark’. One cat is the same as the next to a cheater. Cheaters have no true loyalty, OW’s and OM’s are soooooo blind to that concept.

  • Holy cow.
    On the topic of someone thinking “this is ok, as the spouse was suspicious:” “suspicion” does not mean “know,” and neither “know” nor “suspicion” mean “approval.” Just because someone was suspicious doesn’t mean he or she “knew in his/her heart.” The spouse may have given a huge list of lies, etc. And Lord knows being suspicious — or even knowing for certain — doesn’t mean “yes, I’m ok with this.”
    I was suspicious starting about 3 months in. I got really suspicious about 3 months later (still six months from first anniversary) about all the shifts in her behavior, but bought all her lies, as I trusted her. A year later, I got suspicious again, but this time she turned things around, by gaslighting me. She tried to tell me I was crazy for being suspicious, and how unattractive a jealous man was. On and on for several years, until I finally have hard proof. It turned out there were at least 3 AP over the years. Had I known, believe me, I would’ve punted that lazy, disloyal POS to the curb in a heartbeat.

    • Such a great point Traveling. I was suspicious one year in too as I had evidence that X was in contact with a woman he had dated prior to myself. The gaslighting and blameshifting was amazing! He was so convincing that I felt I was in the wrong. I could slap myself so hard for not pushing the issue and trying to find more evidence, but instead I chose to believe that he was telling the truth. He went way underground after that. I didn’t find anything until year 7.

      Even after I found out the truth, I still had a hard time coming to the realization that I needed to divorce this mess. It was so hard to get to that point. I had been abused for so long that it was familiar and sometimes safety can be mistaken for familiarity. I thought I was safe. Nope. It’s important to know the difference because it can help you move in the direction of getting out of the quagmire of infidelity.

      • Traveling haha… we were 18 mths in to our relationship and back packing. I should have freaked when he was flirting with a girl we were hiking with . It coincided with me feeling ill and being unable to keep up. Signs of things to come. ..narcs dump as soon as you’re not ‘functioning ‘ …. 25 years later … DOH

  • “He told me in graphic detail:
    She suspected him 23 years ago (in a 25 yr marriage).”

    So he told you he’s been a cheater for 23 years, and you are mad at his wife for believing his lies?

    Or …. are you really mad at yourself for believing his lies?

    “SHE KNEW IN HER HEART that he was a piece of shit cheater.

    Yet — SHE STAYED”

    … and YOU knew for a FACT he was a piece of shit cheater, and you stayed long enough to stalk his wife’s social media! Are you mad at her for believing in unicorns… or are you mad at yourself for believing in unicorns? He TOLD YOU who he was, and ….

    Yet – you believed in unicorns!

    There’s a difference between telling Someone who is blind, the sky is green, and convincing someone who can SEE that it’s green, when they can clearly see it isn’t. If you SAW it and fell for the lie, imagine being BLIND and taking the lie as truth.

    Her reality is built on lies about who her husband is, HE sparkles his own turd!
    Your reality is built on truth about who he is, YOU sparkled that turd!

    She has a 25 year marriage contract that she believes includes fidelity. You have a 3 month contract that includes colluding with a known cheater… and you are pissed off at her WHY?

    If I go to buy a car and the owner doesn’t disclose it’s been in a horrible wreck, and that it has a ton of hidden damage, I have a right to be pissed off when it breaks down. I invested in something that I was lied to about. The level of risk is misrepresented and disadvatages me from making an informed choice by weighing all available information.

    If I go buy a car that the owner discloses has been in a horrible wreck, I can assume there might be hidden damages, even if they say it runs fine. If it breaks down, sure I can be pissed off, I just invested in a piece of shit! But….I knew the possibility was there. I might feel lied to, or swindled, because it didn’t work out the way I wanted, but at some point I have to acknowledge it was a gamble I took being informed of the risk.

    • This is the kind of rationale we all need to have, especially in serious relationships. In any other personal decision you need to make as an adult, why would you only accept half or less of the information? Buying a car, or anything else larger then a loaf of bread, and even then I check that bagged bread for openings, mold or worse. If I have to share my income, time, physical ability and health, why would I only accept half of the knowledge. Would you take a job with only half the job description? Would you live in a place with only viewing half of the space? I bet if HVHS was asked to give half of her income to someone she would demand who, so why not demand the Whole truth from Belgium fuckwit? Because she doesn’t WANT to. She doesn’t want the full disclosure which ultimately means she accepts she is a fuckwit herself for accepting this relationship.

      When I stopped letting emotions rule my decisions and also when I stopped letting an imaginary dialogue continue in my head between myself and the cheater-troll I “thought” he was, and when I looked at this situation as a business, the business of my Life, I started moving in the right direction and making the hard and powerful decisions I needed to make to improve my circumstances for myself and family.

      25 years and I admit I needed reprogramming, I needed to turn off the projection channel and let the silence from cheater-troll speak volumes of his poor character and decisions. I am divorced 3 months, removed 2.5 years from the first DDay (of 4) and mostly NC. I am forming a nice little life, slowly, carefully, knowledgeably.

      This is the business of my life and I no longer want to leave it up to anyone who isn’t 100% invested, which means I also have to be 100% invested.

    • YEP!!!!

      who in their right mind gets into a relationship with a man who tells her that he cheated on his wife for 23 years out of their 25 year marriage!?!?!?!

      the writer is nothing but a shallow desperate “high value” piece of shit who thinks that it is ok because surely his wife “SUSPECTS” and has a gut feeling that her husband is cheating.. . somehow it is the wife’s fault in believing her husband is honest and loyal even thou the OP KNOWS differently.. ..

      it amazes me how twisted the other woman thinks to justify her low morals. like she was on top of the world for 3 months, he took her to an emotional place that was total bliss FOR 3 MONTHS!!!! she fell for a married man and it felt GREAT.. .. so why should she feel bad about it, surely his wife knows he is cheating on her. his wife must deserve to be betrayed because she stays with him after all. the writer never stops to think that if mr. wonderful can make her feel bliss in 3 months, what must he be doing to make his wife feel after 25 years? they are married, i am sure he gives it all to his wife to make her continue to believe in that BLISSful feeling and not find out about his extra marital affairs.. .. . but this dumb ass KNEW he was cheating on his wife and STILL willingly got into a relationship with him.. .. so who is the idiot here?

  • High Value, High Status? Um, no…… you are number 11. And that makes you nearly a dime a dozen.

    But let’s not fool ourselves, if he admits to 11 then there are likely 20. Lying cheaters lie.

    My fuckwit actually left me for the European babe half his age. And then he Europe left to go work in the Middle East on a one-way visa. But it is OK, she is watching his cat and keeping track of his life now while he plays around over there because she is a useful appliance like I was. And there is lots of Skype mutual masturbation, hope she finds that appealing to know she is only his live porn but he has no capacity for actual deep feelings. I hope the little sparkletwat cheats on him while he is away.

    The colossal POS will miss his eldest daughter’s masters degree graduation this week. He texted her that he was “sorry I am stuck here in the ME and can’t come back for that” as if it was military deployment or incarceration instead of a thing he fled to and sought out so completely and deliberately as he abandoned us all. It is just not his fault you see! He is blameless.

    At least she NC’d him and left him to sit in his shit on that text.

  • I do love a nice OW story – reminds me what snivelling creatures they really are. With that sense of entitlement and victory what could possibly go wrong,…

    It seems CL returned with some extra Ozzy Balls 🙂 Love it

  • Chump Lady you are on ???????????? today (you are every day but today especially) !!!

    Because of CL and CN I’m 15 months out from d-day and close to having divorce finalized. I now know my worth and have no room for bullshit. I’m a single mom to a 18 month old and an 8 yr old (yeah I was cheated on while I was pregnant and walked out on when daughter was 3.5 months old). I’m there for my kiddos every fucking day. I got this!!!

    Where’s the ex? He moved, with ho-worker, 30 days ago to GA (sorry to any in GA) cause that’s what a loving father does when he can’t pass a drug test and get unsupervised visitation. He can only make the 900 mile round trip to see his kids once a month.

    I’m teaching my kids that actions speak louder than words!

    CL if your ever back in Va, and have the time, I’m about 1.5 hours from Roanoke. I couldn’t make it to Australia but I’m signing up to become a support on Patron. I hope this becomes a full time thing for you. You have reached so many and given us a life line. Thank you every single day!!!!

    • You in SW VA? Maybe we need a meet up for VA chumps not in NOVA.

      • Hi DrFormerChump – I sure am. I think maybe you can reach out to Tempest on here (general forums maybe) and she can share my email with you. There’s a general post for VA chumps but I think it might be NOVA geared. It would be great to meet other chumps in the area and keep supporting each other locally too.

  • This lady is wondering what’s wrong with the spouse ?!? Instead of wondering what’s wrong with the cheater. Amazing.

    I’m just surprised the cheater admitted he was a cheater. They usually only admit that stuff to other people that they know are cheaters themselves.

    • instead of wondering what is WRONG with HER.. .. she is the one who got into a relationship with a man who cheats on his wife for 23 years.. .. who is dumb enough to do that?!?!?!

      did she think she was some kind of special magic pussy that would stop his cheating? or is she just a low down sneaky whore who was desperate to get laid.. .. cant find her own man so she fucks someone elses?

  • Tracy,

    I don’t know what you ate and drank when you were Down Under, but today, you are like a Vitamix whirling this OW’s holier-than-thou, self-agrandizing word salad at a speed of 10+! Wow! As they say, “That’s gonna leave a mark”! Let’s just hope this despicable excuse of a woman checks back in and reads your on-point dissection of her High Value, High Status bullshit.

  • Wow, just pile on there a little, CN. I won’t join in because “….there but for the grace of God….”, so I empathize a bit with hvhs woman. I have been both a chump and a “fuckwit” I’m ashamed to say. After my gut-punch from hell delivered by my “soul-mate” (soulless-mate?), I had the attitude that all women were untrustworthy. Delusional much? Of course. I proceeded with a number of purposefully cake-eating relationships that ended with me dumping the girl and disappearing for good. I was cold. Looking back, I would give anything to visit those girls again if I knew where thy were and beg their forgiveness. They didn’t deserve that and I was a jerk. So…..I guess my point is to realize that sooner or later hvhs woman may realize that she has done dirt to Belgie’s wife and beg for forgiveness from her too…..or not, IDK.

    • You sympathize with the OW? And you acknowledge that you’ve been both a chump and a fuckwit.

      It takes some really special unicorn balls to sympathize with ANY cheater.

    • Ivy tech….this woman is blameshifting her selfishness onto the wife and gloating with her “high value” opinion of herself…while crying “poor ME! IM a chump! ME!” And we are supposed to support her in all this because “…but for the grace of God…”? Um..this site supports chumps, not cheaters or affair partners. You could go to one of those sites where cheaters brag and gloat and make excuses. Bye

      • It’s easy to say “Judge not…” when you are not the injured party…and it’s infuriating when it comes from a cheater!

    • so basically you are a cheater who sympathizes with the other cheaters.. .. how mighty nice of you Ivy_Tech

      does it make you feel special because you finally feel badly for the people you abused?

      are you getting off on reading our pain? does it make you feel better that you can read how cheaters damage us? you make me sick.

  • This is so mind-blowingly perfect that I’m tempted to send it to the Chief Skank when I escape from this hell-hole, but I have it in mind not to acknowledge her (or the others’) existence… except for the divorce filing when they are all listed in the original petition as APs who are all co-responsible along with Fuckturd for the divorce. Oh to see the look on their faces when they discover that getting rid of the wife isn’t their own problem – it’s getting rid of all the other APs. (insert Cruella laugh here)

  • Gave me chills reading. My OW stalked my Facebook as well. I was with my ex 25 years. 3 sons, trying to read self help books to be a better wife and mother (mind fuck to the fullest). Finally he walked out Christmas morning saying I was being bitchy again. . . Was gone for 8 days through the holidays no calls or communication to me or his sons. That was the straw. Hired a private I. And found out he was living a double life. Casino cocktail waitress 15+ years younger with two small children by two different fathers already! was who he spent that holiday with in New York City. Taking helicopter rides around the Empire State Building Lol. While boys and I missed him desperately for Christmas and New Year’s Eve. Anyway. Once I knew the truth. I filed and have now been divorced 3 years and finally starting to feel somewhat normal. I am sure he told her and every other whore that would listen I was a bitch and he was so sad. Ugh! She has her prize now. They are engaged Albeit he has scarred me and his sons deeply. We are finally free of the mind fuck and abuse!

  • One thing these letters confirm to me is the same as I have realized the past few months with my own friends: When you are a Chump, there is nothing you can do that will be considered the “right” thing to do.

    Let’s assume for the sake of argument that the wife in this case really does know that he is a cheater–in her heart and maybe in fact. Well, she can work things out and stay and hope he changes and take him to sex addiction counseling. And people will say she deserves everything because she stayed even when she knew he was a cheater.

    But then if she leaves, people will say that she gave up too easily, threw the marriage away, and didn’t give him a chance to redeem himself.

    In short, Chumps, do what is best for you. People will be nasty and cruel and blame you no matter what. So just live your life.

    • “When you are a Chump, there is nothing you can do that will be considered the “right” thing to do.”

      THIS. It’s so true. I experience it daily.

    • Yup. If I stay and try to work it out, I’m a doormat. If I leave, I’m a quitter.

      So thankful for the CN. You all GET it.

  • These women are delusional. Just last night I received this from the OW:

    “you have on several occasions made inference that i got involved with X before the decision between you and X to separate and get divorced was made. From my perspective and the conversations X and I have had since the day we met, I do not feel that I did anything wrong. You have made comments on my moral character without knowing me whatsoever. When I got involved with X it was under the assumption that a decision had been made by both parties to end your marriage and the details were just being worked out. What X did to you in the end of your relationship was horrible, and I have not taken that lightly in my relationship with him… he was honest with me from day 1 and we have had many conversations about it. Even thought I am with X, I do not condone that behavior, no matter what happened in your relationship.

    I would like to say that I understand your frustration and feelings as it relates to this entire situation. I understand it is not easy, I understand your feelings towards X based on the way your marriage ended. I am sorry for the fact that I met X and began a relationship that hurt you and made a difficult situation more difficult. I am asking, pleading that we move on. That the comments related to the past events cease and we ALL move on”

    So she knew he cheated on his wife with cancer, knew he left during my chemo treatments but believes he he told HER the truth about the situation. Gullible sucker.

    • Warming up the Karma bus, shining the wheels, taking it for a ride around the block. Toot, toot!

  • Why does the wife stay? Because like the LW, she’s believing a known liar. LW has a great view from the cheap seats and KNOW he’s cheating. You KNOW he’s a cheater. And yet you trust his version of the truth. You don’t know his wife knows and you don’t know what kind of options she has, or feels like she has. I think the LW’s real question is: why do I stay? Why am I doing this?

    According to a therapist friend of mine, if a woman knowingly has an affair with a married man, most of the time it’s because of low self esteem because she didn’t get the attention she needed from her father while growing up, usually because of a jealous mother. Knowingly having an affair with a married man is as much as ‘getting the guy’ as it is sticking it to the wife. THAT’S why it’s SO satisfying, at least initially. However, in addition to contributing to the destruction of someone’s family, it doesn’t really help what’s really bugging the OW: that her father wasn’t interested enough in her to fight her mother to spend time/attention on her.

    The most powerful words a wife can tell her cheating husband’s mistress? “He’s all yours.” As soon as the tug of war ends, most of the time the OW loses interest. This is why the OW FB stalks or reaches out to the wife. If there’s no tension, the husband quickly loses his attractiveness. (And the husband will lose interest as well because his monster ego isn’t being stroked by being fought over by two women who lurrrrv him.) This is why no contact is so important: don’t feed the monster (ego).

    • Granny K – Spot on! I heard this as well. Most OW have “Daddy Issues”. I know my XH’s whore does for certain. They need to triumph over the wife to feel worth. If she didn’t destroy my 17 year marriage and nearly destroy me – I might have had pity for the slut. Her first husband was also married as well when she triumphed over his first wife.

      My XH married his trollop. I’m sure in time, she’ll tire of him. My XH will be devastated to be left – with 1/4 of his original wealth – I don’t think he’ll miss her Borderline crazy. Sadly, I don’t think there is Karma for the whore – they’re often too broken to be hurt and too stupid to fix themselves – perpetually doomed to repeat the same destructive cycle.

    • That is so true Granny. I was told that one of the whores my dickhead was sexting got a rise out of ruining marriages, then just wants nothing to do with these guys (met the challenge?) after demolishing their marriages. Obviously she is good at ruining marriages – she helped to ruin mine, but like you said – she can have him. He should not have been sexting her in the first place.

      It goes both ways though too. My BF and I were at the bar awhile back and I could sense this chic had some kind of vibe with my bf. Turns out that everytime I went to the bathroom or went outside, she chatted him up asking how long he and I had been together and said that she ‘had always hoped they would go out sometime.’ As he is telling me this, I said to him ‘just be careful cuz you suddenly become more attractive when you are no longer single!’ (And why would he want to risk losing me for that?)

      Funny how that stuff works….

    • “Why fight over a pile of sh*t ? Please, take him/her off my hands !”

    • I love the “He’s all yours” comment. Perfect.

      Also, will someone please tell the moron (troll??) that her use of the word “inference” is incorrect?? An inference is the type of belief/conclusion ALL of us at CN would draw about an OW being a whorish buffoon.

      Whereas the chump wife “implying” that the OW is a whorish pig, simply means the chump wife is actually talking about the OW, and perhaps subtly and suggestively pointing out the obvious while not saying it overtly.

      My favorite line when someone says I’m “implying” that they are X/Y/Z, is that “No, I’m not implying it. I’m saying it to your face directly.”

  • Reading letters like that one make me long for the resurrection of the late, great

    It’s archived. It’s well worth reading what is still publicly available. Sadly, the forum isn’t available but the public articles are there. I really miss the forum.

  • This was so absolutely amazing! CL you are on fire today! Thank you for cutting through another OW’s bullshit! Yay! Epic smackdown!

    HVHSWoman – unless you were there physically and heard and saw it all with your own ears, you have NO IDEA what the poor chump wife knows or doesn’t know. You knew from the start there was a wife and you willingly engaged with this man. You are a royal idiot. It’s mind boggling that you think you are a woman of high status and high value – you MUST know you’re NOT a woman of high intelligence or you wouldn’t have written such a stupid letter to CL. Interesting that you question the motives of the chump but not the cheater. Your conclusions could only have been deduced by being a cheater yourself. Clearly, a chump, you are not.

  • Right on CL!

    She’s a desperate low life skank. May she one day feel the wife’s pain that she contributed to.

    Evil .: both of them ????

  • A Belgian Man Met Me…the – it happened to me, help me! I have no agency – happened in the FIRST FIVE WORDS. What a dick.

  • LMAO


    LMAO, that was so awesome and exactly what I was thinking.

    The last sentences cover it, if this OW was really in shock then she would contact his wife and tell her all the truth and apologize.

  • I could almost buy the OWomen are all fooled by the cheater husbands except that after X left i heard from a couple different sources that the OW in my case was prowling around at least two attached men in the same time frame as her relationship with my X. OW get off on the idea of turning the heads of married men, it’s a thrill for the depraved I am sure.

  • Wow CL, epic reply!!!! You always put it in perspective!
    High value woman my chumpy ass!!!
    Fuck her!!!!!

  • One thing I’ve learned in dealing with infidelity, not only with the characters in my own story, but all of the stories I read about on here — there are a lot of f-ing idiots out there. Just complete f-ing idiots.

    Idiot men, idiot women, idiot husbands, idiot wives, idiot friends……..just not a whole lot of brain power out there. It’s been one of life’s great revelations and disappointments for me.

    And the thing is, like this letter writer, none of them even know they’re a part of it.

    • Totally Agree… OW do not occupy the idiot space alone, sadly. Not by a long shot!!

  • “You knew he was married. His wife didn’t know you existed. This is not a level playing field.”
    This. Right here.
    While we’re trying to figure out why our spouses have shut us down emotionally, and often times, sexually- the ow/om is reveling in our lack of knowledge of their existence. If they know their fuck buddy is married then they are complicit in the destruction of a family, and that makes these affair partners nothing more than parasitic scum. They feed off of the pain and suffering of others for their own personal gain.

  • Love that you told this c*nt off!

    I despise women who go after taken men. I’ve dropped life long friends who have admitted they got involved with married men. There is no room in my heart watching their entitlement abuse another woman and their families.

  • I can’t read all the comments and i know I’m saying nothing new but OMG I LOVE THIS SO MUCH Chump lady. Pretty sure (at least) 11 of the (at least) 12 whores my cheater has bedded have known he’s married, several knew I was pregnant. He has also told me of women who have attempted to seduce him at work (after meeting me) whom he chose (I think) not to go there with because he didn’t think they were worth the risk. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE BITCHES? I’m sorry but I am NOT uneducated, NOT bad looking, am a fabulous cook and did NOT give off the vibe that I was bad wife material/poor competition. GET YOUR OWN MAN. WHY would you want this creep who can’t stay faithful to his GOOD wife and mother of his children, anyway? Why do you want to add to misery in this world by being that type of woman?

  • OW ..!!!

    Are you an incredible, VS type of a magical creature, that this man lost his head for? He love bombed you, poor you… it was a bliss and lasted 3 months… ????????
    For real? After 3 months of playing new sport, my kids were not sure if they like playing lacrosse or not… but somehow, within 3 months, you Were comfortable planning your future with someone who leaves his wife yet, is still scared that she will find out?

    Perspective: 3 months of love bombing vs 25 years of hearing “ no one else matter, you are the love of my life, no baby nothing is happening, I’m investing all my time in our family, yes I would love to have children with you ASAP, yes, let’s buy new house and invest $ in our 401k, yes, let’s plan our future together etc.”

    I would never go for a married man.
    It was always a big turn off to hear guys bitching about their wives or creating stories, how victimized they are in their relationship.
    You don’t like something, ? Talk to your wife.
    You don’t want to be with her- divorce and give her and yourself a chance to find someone else….

    • More like give her a chance to find someone else… that is so unfair. I would have kicked his ass out years ago if I had known. I could have saved our son from the terrible discard his father did( image management still happens but no real affection).

      Just leave already!

  • I actually really gave up any hope for reconciliation once I realized HOW cheaters think.

    — I think a section here – like a dose or cheater reality — would be helpful to some chumps to wake up and realize that THIS is who cheaters really are. In their own words. I never thought cheaters were this delusional and malicious in their thoughts.

    We are encouraged by the RIC to stick our heads in the sand, plan a, plan b and plan q… we wonder about a magical “fog” that has overtaken our spouses, or a rouge mid life crisis or other mental, physiological or physical crisis the cheater is battling.

    It’s. not. that. complicated. They are not that hard to figure out. I think if more people actually SAW the cheaters behaviors, plans, schemes and disdain they hold for their spouse, many would quit the recovery carousel months or years earlier.

    I never knew anything about schmooop – until he moved in with her. If I had as good an idea about the plotting they did against me then, I would be much further along now.

    May they rot in the life they made.

  • I would like to raise my hand and respond to OW here, as a chump who did “know in her heart” (though lacked proof) that X was “closet polyamorous”, to put it kindly, throughout our 25 year marriage. Why did I stay? I guess even before I married him (I suspected the above because of his previous dating history, though as far as I know that never included married people), I did the calculation, and felt that the good things about him outweighed the bad, and I’d just take my chances.
    Even looking back, we did have a pretty good marriage for the first 10 years. He was a good dad when the kids were small, and a fun, social person and life of the party. There was a D-day around year 6, when I caught him advertising on a (pre-Ashley Madison) dating site. That led to brief MC, fake (even I suspected it at the time) contrition from him, and the beginning of even more erosion of trust. I started working on my fitness even more (partly “preventive” pick me dancing, but mostly because I always enjoyed that stuff). I also now realize it’s because all the narcissist-free time I spent running, etc kept me sane.
    He, on the other hand, retreated to a life of increasing workaholism and alcoholism, social isolation, and unhealthy lifestyle, uninterested in developing any “shared” interests that didn’t include him dictating them. Yes, we still had sex and raised the kids together, but little by little, his poor character surfaced, and I slowly lost respect for him (booze-related job loss, him filing employment and insurance lawsuits that I suspected were based on lies, etc.).
    But I couldn’t prove most of the lies, and I chose not to drive myself crazy trying to. I instead developed my own fun and friends (and NEVER cheated, the very thought was gross!). Though I had gone through that DDay and never entirely trusted him, instead of being marriage police, I adopted a “don’t ask, don’t tell” attitude. After all, I told myself I wouldn’t be doing the kids any favors trying to raise them as a poor single mom – I had a good career, but the one time I did consult a divorce attorney (a well-meaning but I now suspect conservative older woman with traditional beliefs), she ran the numbers and told me “best for the kids to try to get him into rehab and make your marriage work, honey.”
    Well, that happened, mandated by the employer he later sued. Guess who had to pay for it? But unfortunately, a sober narc is still a narc. His years of alcohol and grandiosity-induced accidents (head injuries, he was too invulnerable to ever wear a helmet, don’tcha know) eroded his personality to the point where those “positive” personality features were no more.
    He became a miserly, mean-spirited, bigoted, controlling person, and I increasingly found myself in the role of defending the teen kids from his emotional manipulation.
    Why didn’t I leave then, you ask? Because I took my vows seriously, and my conscience could not accept the idea of leaving someone whose brain injury had possibly changed his personality.
    It was probably around then, I realize now, that his entitlement and poor judgment led him to a secret life of hookers, patient fucking, tax evasion or worse.
    When I discovered all this stuff, it was painful, but I must admit there was some relief in knowing I could now divorce him with absolutely no guilt. After all, nobody could fault someone for leaving, considering those circumstances; I had really given my marriage my best college try. The kids, now in college, were supportive. Turns out they were sick of my making those “head injury” excuses for their dad.
    It’s been a challenge financially but I’m making it. I’m in a way grateful to hooker patient Schmoopie for being there for me to unload X onto, in a guilt-free way.
    So this long reply, OW writer, can be summed up as this: if your cheater is correct (I agree that’s doubtful) that his wife suspects he cheats, maybe she’s staying with his miserable ass out of guilt, a sense of duty, or even pity. It is at your own peril that you assume she’s a desperate loser, maybe she’s secretly chomping at the bit to be free. So, hey, I recommend you contact her! She’ll be furious and hurt, of course, but eventually she might realize this is her free ticket to unload that turd —onto you, and get a nice settlement to boot. Make her day!! And good luck with Greencardio… Bwahaha!

  • What can I can say ? Some people are just desperate or plain stupid, even with letters after their name.

    I learned a few years,by accident, that my gynecologist was the “other woman” and she is only just starting to realize it.

    I googled her name to schedule an appointment and came across an article about commuter marriages. She met her now husband (a Scandinavian) at the airport, fell in love through email and married five years later. She works in the U.S. and he stayed in his country to help raise his two teenagers. He eventually moved to the States and I guess the cracks are beginning to appear.

    Last year during my annual exam we were discussing my sex life and I talked about the man I briefly dated. I shared that we only had sex a couple of times with a condom, he has erectile dysfunction and that his second wife (he refers to ex-wives as axe # 1 and axe #2) was diagnosed with vulvar cancer. He claims she contracted it from her first husband who cheated on her, not from him,the man who porked prostitutes during his first wife’s first pregnancy. I told the doctor that this info oozed out over a couple of months and I dumped him pronto. I also told her how axe #2 posted on her Facebook page around the time of her divorce from Mr. Jesus Cheater “When the wrong people leave your life, the right things start Happening”.

    That’s when she chimed in that her husband’s first wife isn’t on Facebook and she wishes that she were because doc has some questions for her. The doctor doesn’t know that I know the back story about how she met her husband. I think he was cheating on his first wife with doc (emotional affair via email) and maybe he even committed bigamy. How would one even run a background check on somebody in a foreign country ? Why waste time and energy forming a “relationship” over the internet ? This doctor has been tops with me for medical care, listening and being gentle with uncomfortable procedures. She was bright enough to graduate from medical school and become a board certified physician but talk about wearing blinders !

    p.s. I think she was thrown by what I told her and almost forgot to complete my exam

  • So a habitual liar told you his wife suspected him, but stayed?

    Uh huh. Uh huh.

  • I don’t believe that every OW is exactly the same, any more than I believe that every chump is the same, or that every cheater is the same. The only thing I know is that the person who should be issuing apologies is the spouse that does the cheating.

  • “Who is this woman?”….this woman is the wife of man I was in a relationship with. We BOTH had NO IDEA he was cheating (he even gave me a false surname). I found out, and I gave her lots of evidence (of us, the women before me that I discovered, etc) and she stayed. “He’s the love of my life”, “This was the wake up call we needed”, “we will rebuild stronger than ever”, etc. That was 5 years ago. 1.5 years after her DD, he cheated again. And who knows how many more times. She is THAT woman. Head. Deeply. In Sand (feel sorry for her).

  • “A Belgian man met me in 2017 and told me he was leaving his wife of 25 years….”

    Was that Esther Perel’s husband? Was he tired of being held in captivity?

  • ‘A Belgian man met me in 2017 and told me he was leaving his wife of 25 years and wanted to “change his life” by moving to the states’

    stopped reading after this sentence.

  • The funniest thing is that I’ve been reading through old articles here and some of you chumps have been on this site for YEARS.. Move on already. Get over it, get a life. Seriously.

    • Hey Belle,
      You probably are one of the whores that fucked one of the husbands. You think nothing is wrong with it. Why would you be on here anyway reading people’s posts. To get an inside view of how many lives you destroyed? Probably. Go ON with yourself and your has been life, find a guy that’s single. Close your legs to married men. Nobody on this site is a victim here.

    • You tell us, Belle! Because trolling on a site so you can salivate at witnessing others’ heartbreak, in between your day job of fucking married men in cheap hotels, is the sort of life every woman should lead.
      Thank God we have Quality Women like you showing us the way.

      Oh, and go fuck yourself.

      • Belle
        You are a poacher that manipulates a married man so you can have some dick cuz you cannot find any single guy that actually wants to be with you. Sure He will fuck you for a night or too or hump and dump you. You think it’s true love when you screw a married man, huh screwball?
        You are obviously into sloppy seconds, I hope you enjoy it. Or maybe sloppy thirds. The woman on here did have a life to a whore like you came around and screwed their husbands. They DO have a life. You are the one that does not have a life if you have time to troll this website and make the comments that you made. I hope you are making some money off your deal or your arrangement. You need it to compensate for your low self esteem and your trashy lifestyle. It will make you feel better that you are screwing somebody’s elses man. I am sure NO woman would want their husband after a slimeball cunt like you has put your nasty hole all over their husband. Good Riddance to you. Get a life yourself you HOLE

    • Belle,
      seriously, did you GAG yet? I hope you choke on it ….LOL HO !

  • Bravo CL, once again the perfect response. Fuck you OW, you ask who is that woman? I am. My gut told me for 28 years my husband was a liar. I begged for the truth, I asked him directly ” are you having an affair?” The answer was always ” I’ve never had sex with anyone but you since we’ve been married.” Yup the liar had no problem looking right in the face and lying for all those years. I had no proof therefore was used as a cover so he could maintain his job, his family, his standing as a good man in the community all those years. Finally D-Day came and I got to know I wasn’t crazy all along. I’m a chump but you are truly a vile, malevolent, cheater and you got what you deserved.

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