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When You Perform the Pick Me Dance Wrong

I’ve concluded that Other Women enjoy the pick me dance — but only when the chump is clueless that she’s performing it. Sorry to go all gender-and-orientation-specific on you, but in six years of running this blog, I have never, ever seen an Other Man troll this site, write to me for sympathy, or gloat to a guy chump that he “won”. (Maybe they do. Maybe you don’t talk about it. Guys lurk according to Google analytics.)

But I think this whole fuckwit-Thunderdome-I-AM-THE-CONQUERING-VICTOR-eat-shit dynamic is unique to straight women. Because… the patriarchy. Because men are supposed to be some commodity we hang our worth on. Because financial dependence. Because the high stakes of breeding. Because… I don’t know, I’m spitballing. But sociopathic OW keep writing to me.

Their letters go something like this:

Chump Lady, can you believe how pathetic Cindy Chump is? I told her about your site. I’ve subscribed her to articles! But that dumb cow stays. What a doormat! He loves ME. He’s been a serial cheat, of course. But ours is a sophisticated love that surpasseth all understanding! She keeps taking him back preventing him from his True Destiny — being 600 miles from his children with ME! WTF, Chump Lady! Can you knock some sense into her? — Kisses, Hortense.

Yes, apparently I’m providing some sort of public service to mistresses everywhere by convincing chumps to leave their asshole husbands. You’re welcome.

If you don’t believe me, read the archives. I occasionally run their letters. (And then Tempest has to spend the day troll zapping.)

So, my point… (I was getting to one)… Other Women LOVE the triangle. They stay in it. They “win” the turd and gloat about it. The more sociopathic ones taunt the chump. I had one of these. She signed her letters “Samuel Clemens.” (Bitch tried to ruin Mark Twain. I’m sorry, but I’ll be goddamned if I trigger over Huckleberry Finn.)

Some observations:

1.) The pick me dance is fun when the chump is clueless. Insofar as the OW thinks of the chump, she imagines all the ways she is superior. Cindy does not Sufficiently Appreciate Him. Hortense has the competitive edge on the pick me dance the same way Mike Tyson would have the competitive edge on someone blindfolded and hogtied. It’s very easy to compete with someone who has no idea they’re competing. And who is handicapped by real life — unsexy things like mortgages and children.

2.) The pick me dance stakes get higher when the chump finds out. OW imagine this is only going to have one outcome — the chump leaves. When the chump does not leave, well…. pickled in months or years of “superiority”, Hortense assumes she’ll win this match handily. After all, Cindy Chump sucks, otherwise why the special love that surpasseth all understanding? Now that there is a known competitor in the ring, it’s going to feel triumphant knocking her out! More kibbles! More winning! This is Mike Tyson versus the chump with the blindfold off.

3.) You should clear the field and leave now. Somehow Cindy is going round after round of this abuse. It’s fun for Hortense, but it’s getting wearisome. Just fucking LEAVE already. Hortense sends some blog articles, some hate mail, some prayers for Cindy’s well-being. (All this later Universal Bullshit Translator fodder.) Meanwhile, the cheater is reveling in cake. Both! Centrality! Power!

And let me tell you why Cindy stays — apart from the sunk costs of love, children, and mortgages —  she stays because of Hortense. Chumps get caught up in winning the pick me dance too, especially when some idiot tells them they’re doing it wrong.

Cindy’s like, I’ll SEE YOU IN HELL, Hortense! How dare you call me a doormat! How dare you say I don’t love my husband! WATCH ME COOK THIS POT ROAST!

Ugh! No!

Cindy is there perfecting her pick me dance and her pot roast, because Hortense — an OBVIOUS fuckwit — insulted her pick me dance.

DO NOT PICK ME DANCE FOR FUCKWITS, people! So what if Hortense wins? Now she gets to triangle (rectangle, dodecahedron) all over again with someone else. Let her have the turd. LET HER WIN. Let her get into the ring with her perceived superiority and see how she fares. (My money is on Karma knocking her flat.)

And for any of you OW reading? Please quit writing to me. Thank you.

 

 

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  • I never danced after I found out that Asshat was shtupping his *now ex* bestie’s wife. This simply drove him to take up with another- a 27 year old barmaid, since that all-important triangle was now missing an angle. I understand that ex-bestie’s (now soon to be ex-besties EX-wife) has flounced, since “she doesn’t want a poly relationship- which is REALLY amusing since asshat tried to tell me on D-Day that is what he wanted…with ME.

    Oh, and he’s 56. Come on Karma Bus. He’s waiting at the stop!

    • “Oh, and he’s 56. Come on Karma Bus. He’s waiting at the stop!”

      Wait until the barmaid or one of the other AP’s find out that not even those magical little pills will provide them with amusement if he simply isn’t interested anyway. Of course, there are other ways he could satisfy the AP, but I bet he lacks technique or won’t be bothered because it’s all about HIS satisfaction and fun. Never anyone else’s. Not that AP deserves it but you know what I mean!

      Does anyone else ever drive by those little carts in front of church where people can leave things for those in need and want to toss in a battery-powered vibrator? Hey – even the homeless deserve some fun! Or is that just me?

      • No Shit Cupcakes- he has a script for the magical pills, but claims he doesn’t need them. He eats walnuts by the handful instead. Apparently, those are magical nuts? I doubt 27 year-old will hang around long. His kids are older than she is, and they pretty much hate him right now. I am just bracing for Sad Sausage hoovering when this all goes south.

    • True polyamory isn’t just about sex, it’s really about actually loving more than one person. LOVING them, whether sex is involved or not. Someone who just wants to have sexual relations outside a marriage is just asking for an open marriage. There’s a huge difference. Polyamory is very hard to balance and rarely the idyllic situation that is imagined by the participants. Open marriages often end in divorce anyway because probably less than 2% of the population is wired that way.

      • ironhardempress- yes, you and I know this. But Asshat seems to think that Polyamory means he does what he wants until the others involved find out. Even after the MC explained this to him. Truth is, he wouldn’t know real love if it kicked him in the balls. He’s incapable of it.

        • “Truth is, he wouldn’t know real love if it kicked him in the balls. He’s incapable of it.”

          Stealing!

    • Oh Narcles the porn clown has been dumped by Sparkletwat the yoga camp troll. Shes moved on to an older and wealthier fellow. Now hes lamenting that he ‘doesn’t have a family or wife in the area so he might as well move west’ to his son. Yep, to his own son, in public of course. That way he knows his grown son won’t pop him right there an then and he gets the sympathy from those listening which is a real chubby maker for him.

      Yah, Karma Bus indeed.

    • I can’t stop dancing. I am lonely and feel so anxious all the time. I don’t even like him. Someone kick me in the head.

  • I’m going to wander off on a tangent today.

    For some reason that eludes me, I was reminded of what happened where my parent worked when one of the founders had an affair with an employee. (This was at a clinic that at the time specialized in those dually diagnosed with alcoholism and a mental health diagnosis).

    Founder #1 (male psychiatrist) cheated on Founder #2 (wife, also a physician or psychologist – it was a long time ago) with Employee (psychologist). Well, after THAT blew up and there was a divorce, Founder married Employee.

    They proceeded to gradually fire everyone who had been part of the practice before the affair was uncovered and the divorce and remarriage.

    I’m mentioning this to point out that image management can extend to employees, friends and family. If anyone doubts that Cheaters Suck, remember that a psychiatrist who specialized in fucking talk therapy was too much of a coward and an entitled asshole to talk to his wife and be honest enough to separate/divorce BEFORE cheating on her.

    I should ask my parent who was the last one to be purged.

    That was in the late 1970’s to early 1980’s, I think.

    The staff were shocked at what he did to his wife. They were livid at what he did to them in order to present a newly-refurbished image to his staff. It’s like his first wife and kids were wiped off the map.

    “DO NOT PICK ME DANCE FOR FUCKWITS, people! So what if Hortense wins? Now she gets to triangle (rectangle, dodecahedron) all over again with someone else. Let her have the turd. LET HER WIN. Let her get into the ring with her perceived superiority and see how she fares. (My money is on Karma knocking her flat.)”

    I think the wife of Dr. Cheater Asshole got a big fat settlement and made him buy her out of THEIR business at very generous terms because she could have just as easily destroyed the business and his professional reputation for years. I don’t know if she did the Pick-Me Dance at any point. I hope she didn’t.

    So no dancing, Chumps. Screw that noise. Go make a kickass pot roast for yourself and your true friends.

    • How To Win At Tug Of War

      1) let go

      Game over.

      My daughter is going to learn first hand from me to NEVER chase after any man. I don’t have to chase what God(dess) sends. The Lower Companion changed her FB page and is now using MY last name, has one of Celine Dion’s wedding pictures as her profile pictures, and posted selfies wearing blue contact lenses. (She is Chinese; I am Caucasian with blue eyes). Sick people belong together…Ta ta!

      • So, Velvet, you’re telling us that OW wants to be you? How original. Maybe instead of Celine Dion, she should post a picture of Little Big Town – the band that had a hit with the song Girl Crush.

    • Omg! @No-shit-cupcakes X’s last whore de jur was/is the daughter of that exact psychiatrist-cheater situation that went down in 1987 when she was 3: dad founder psychiatrist cheated with Clinic employee psychiatrist and pushed out founder #2 mom psychologist. Dr cheater got kids. Mom psychologist had a mental breakdown. Fast forward 30 years: cheater dad’s daughters (33 and 31) still live at home with he and OWife, have no relationship with their Chump mom whom he completely alienated, the daughters are daily drug users, and he has a debilitating stroke. Older daughter starts trolling lawfirm elevators for a married sugar daddy target. In walks my XH. 20 seconds in that elevator was all it took for my entire world to fall apart. X (who is already cheating with another whore) is struck with twu luv. He tells 4 kids and me he HATES us and has for 10 years.

      18 weeks of false wreconciliation and I tell him to GET THE FUCK OUT— if he cannot sign a post nup, be abstinent for a year, get drug and personality counseling, CHANGE, submit to polygraphs, I’m out. He won’t so he’s gone and I go NC. I divorced him and got full custody and 70% of all assets. I met a wonderful mensch with character, integrity, adores me and is fully committed.

      I’m NC with X, but last I heard he was cheating on AP and she is cheating on X. … ho hum…. I wonder what I should make for dinner. . . Meh is grand!

  • When the other woman is his mother it can be confusing. But the basics are the same. Except she gets to come right in your house and watch. And comment behind your back as well as directly. In front of your children.

    When you do finally leave, OW discovers visiting isn’t as nice as when you “stayed”. If you get invited at all, the food’s worse. The sheets aren’t clean. There’s nothing to do. And he stays away as much as possible.

    • Agree with Free Vix. I would also say that an intrusive MIL really does not compare to sexual betrayal.

      • But I think the point about not pick-me-dancing with ANYBODY about ANYTHING is a great one. We shouldn’t have to compete for our partner’s approval, with in-laws, kids, OR APs.

        That kind of setup is occurring? Drop the rope.

        • Agreed I soooooo WONT, it was hell on Earth with the toxic MIL but the pick me dance, NO WAY!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

        • This was a red flag I didn’t see not only waving but knocking me upside the head when we were first married. I would get snippets or walk in on a phone conversation with now ex and his mom about how I didn’t keep a clean enough house or when son got picky with table food I should give him pudding so he wouldn’t starve (I’m a peds nurse so, uhm, no. No pudding and he didn’t starve). When I lost a baby during my second trimester and we were planning a graveside funeral, his mom was telling ex what should be put on the headstone. Uhm, no. It was the first time I ever lost my shit while he was talking to her on the phone and he was trying to shush me so she didn’t over hear me saying she should butt out….

            • Very sorry also TwiceAChump . 🙁

              And, this sounds like a whole ‘nuther topic to approach.

              I, too, was competing with my MIL.
              I knew it before I married him….it was obvious…I just didn’t know how it would get so freaking weird. I’d overhear him on the phone (and he had a low voice) telling her something about OUR marriage!! Good God, I would NEVER EVER say anything about my husband or my marriage to anybody, let alone my mother or dad!

              Our very first trip to warm weather (from Montana) to our very first Hawaiian vaca, was heaven, until we got to the beach to dip our toes in the warm water. Guess who was 100’ ahead of me, walking with his mom. I was back with his dad and little sister looking at my future ahead.

              It should have been a HUGE RED FLAG!
              Turned out to be a huge issue.

              • Dixie Chump – ‘Agree with Free Vix. I would also say that an intrusive MIL really does not compare to sexual betrayal.’

                I guess there’s always the exception to the rule.
                ME
                X and I literally had no sex-life and I’ve talked about it on here before. At one point, he said he had a Madonna/Whore complex about me. Like, in some words, I reminded him of his mother. So, therefore he didn’t want to get a bit wild with me in bed. This came up about 3 times during our 34 yr marriage. I wanted it. He didn’t.

                And, he and his mother talked every single day on the phone. Sometimes twice. And, she came on every vacation with us. . .

                And…she ruled when she was around.
                When she could get away with it. He is her favorite.

    • I so understand that, Diane.
      My cheater had me pick-me dancing constantly as he always needed the triangle. Sometimes the triangularion was with his fucked-up family of origin. I wanted to paint our living room blue? Well, his father (who did not live with us and rarely visited) wanted us to paint it yellow. Cheater had no opinion, but I knew he was just as likely to “side” with his father on living room paint colour as he would be to “side” with me. So I danced, danced, danced.

      I wanted him to come home one evening because the kids were both puking and I was at the end of my rope? Well, his friend wanted him to go out for a beer and he just didn’t know who to choose… It wasn’t that *he* wanted to go out for a beer, it was always another person. So, I danced.

      I think it really has nothing to do with sex. The sex isn’t what causes the extreme trauma, it’s the disorienting reality of needing to dance and then the dancing. It’s the realization that any loyalty to us is so tenuous that it can be forgotten in a moment and we can be discarded for the transient experience of parental approval on home decor, a beer, or an orgasm.

      I was triangulated with his father, sister, porn site chat members, members of his sports’ team, anonymous “gamers” met online, nameless women he met wherever, our kids’ friends’ Mommies, and on and on and on.

      • It is a pick me dance with their fucked up family. This revelation just hit me like a ton of bricks.
        At some point i stopped the pick me dance with the ow because literally fuck her and fuck him.
        But my x needed to keep the pick me dance going. They use whoever they can to keep up the dance. Fucking freaks.

    • My X triangulated me with his mother for years, though she wasn’t evil. They do triangulate with everyone, they need lots of “others” to keep chumps in line. I am sure that X is playing the same triangulation game with OW now. And you are right, visiting isn’t as nice when the chump hasn’t been around to take care of the details of life. I’ve said before that if affair partners want the life that the cheater projects they ought to look to the chump because they are the one creating it.

    • Me too. Got the prosae divorce papers myself and filled them out
      Told him to sign them, which he eventually did after dropping her and hovering me for 9 months
      What an emotionally devastating time
      They don’t give us much choice, especially if you respect yourself!
      Sold the house, moved away. It’s the second family he has done this to.
      Silly fuckers!
      So sorry if you are going through this!
      Rear view mirror!
      LIS

  • Can someone explain the sociopath of another OW who, after months of me walking away and certainly not pick me dancing, she seems to be stalking me? I wished i was kidding, but currently have my lawyer on it

    • More than likely cheater husband is still using you to triangulate. Making comparisons, etc. OW is worried he’s heading back to you. Looks as thought the karma bus has hit your cheater who now has to deal with this psycho.

      • I agree, the cheater brought your name up and OW is feeling insecure and trying to gain some power in the situation.

        I had already been maintaining total no contact with my ex for close to a year when one of the women I discovered he was in the process of grooming when I dumped him started obsessively visiting my profile on a social media network and showing up on a local interest Facebook group I was a member of.

        They weaponize your history with them and use you as a tool to mindfuck the OW or new chump if she (or he) is vulnerable to that type of manipulation.

        OW is probably not playing her role right, so the cheater dropped your name to light a fire under her feet and get her to dance harder.

        Or he has her replacement lined up and is trying to provoke her into acting out in a way he can use as a “she’s crazy” excuse when he gets caught or decides to blow their relationship up.

        They’re always angling, and even after you’re done with them, you’re still useful to them.

        • When I was dating I had a boyfriend who did this after we broke up. Dropped my name or talked me up with new girls he was dating who would then stalk me. Hundreds of hang up calls 24/7 Super confusing. He didn’t want me back, he liked the frenzy he caused in new girls. The only diagnostic tool we had back then was *69, which told me very little. I thought I was being followed, so I went to the police. They told me whomever was calling was most def female. He said women hang up over and over, men tend to threaten verbally on the phone (this was 30 yrs ago). I was confused because I was new in town and had no enemies. He was spot on, and I eventually tracked one woman down and exposed her at her job.

          No question a lot of this is gender specific no matter how hard that is to accept. I’ve never had a new boyfriend ask me a single thing about an old one. Nothing. There are some bitches out there that be crazy lol.

        • this is exactly it “OW is probably not playing her role right, so the cheater dropped your name to light a fire under her feet and get her to dance harder. ”

          there is a triangle I was in (not knowing, then knowing) in which I walked away – from the guy, from a job and from a whole town. He would tell her I was trying to get him back — which meant the two of them — even one was a joke at that point. I remember laughing so hard just thinking about it that the folks in the apt downstairs almost called the cops. I could not stop laughing. No seriously, she won it, she keeps that prize. it was like winning a ball of horseshit covered with moldy slime with bug parts in it. But he worked that for years, and she totally hated the person she thought was me. Took me years to learn that neither of them could define me.

        • My boyfriend of 7 years, Narc Slut Cat, would use me to his current fling when he was bringing in a new Tinder special. Essentially he was throwing the current OW off the scent of the new OW! And I was the dancing duped fool never knowing I was in a whole disco of gyrating OW. Whenever his new female “friend” (co-worker, best friends little sister etc) seemed to get a little too close, then she would disappear. His pattern – seduce, bed, determine she was not all that (SHE would discover bodybuilder was arrogant, acted “shady” (always texting and going home to me!), broke and a real douche), he’d find a new OW, block the old one – rinse and repeat. He always had me, one OW he was with, one who was on the way in and one OW on the way out. And there I was, smoking the hopium pipe as Loved a Jackass once said to me. I was a spectacular chump, blind and bound, still taking hits from Narc the Cat and all the OW (even not one but TWO stalkers) on this site since day 1. It took 7 rounds and 7 years. Today would have been our 7 year anniversary. Happy Alone. Happy Single. I’ve made it out – and I know I’ve won, I have myself back.

      • I was stalked by then STBX cheater and the OW, TOGETHER. Busted them trying to break into my previously undisclosed apartment one night. I wasn’t dancing and was in full NC mode, so I imagined the motivation to be an attempt to recover property I “unfairly” took in accordance with our settlement agreement. Or maybe they wanted my cats.

    • She suspects he is cheating on her and if he is doing so with his WIFE, she is no longer president of the Homewrecking Ho’s Club and might have to return her ceremonial edible undies.

      She’s worried that he has found a new pussy bank. One that has better gifts for making a deposit than whatever she has been giving him. Hot & cold running blowjobs perhaps?

      It would be fantastic if she found herself having to post bail because there was enough evidence to get her arrested and an order to stay away from you. Won’t that be fun for OW when called to testify about when she got involved with STBX.

      • Hahahaha……”president of the Homewrecking Ho’s Club and might have to return her ceremonial edible undies.”

    • Very simply, IMHO, affairs indicate a lack of mental and emotional health. Trust that!

    • Always remember: Sociopaths like to WIN. They can’t win if you don’t play the game. This probably won’t make sense to you (because you don’t have a personality disorder) and it took me years with a therapist to wrap my head around this concept. (I have a sociopath in my family). I still struggle with it.

  • The OW in my triangle happily danced off to cheater land with my ex husband. I hope she has a wonderful life looking over her shoulder for the next competitor to come along.

    I remember after our marriage counselor telling my ex “you either need to break it off completely with the other woman and commit to your marriage or walk away from your marriage, you can’t have both”. Greedy boy said, “I don’t know what to do”. After several sessions of this I told him that I knew what to do and his decision not to decide was enough for me. It was no longer up to him. I wanted him out of the house by the end of the week. Called my attorney and filed. After our divorce was final, I told him that I wished him a lot of luck with this relationship. “She now knows when times get difficult your preference is to cheat and lie, you know, she doesn’t value commitment and family. Good luck with that”. Both truly deserve each other.

    I look back at all of this now and just smile. I ended up losing a cheater and gaining the kids full time (they don’t speak to him), house, cars and alimony for a very long time. She may have thought she won, but truly in the end, I did. She’s just too stupid to know it!

    • They don’t think that will happen to them.
      They think they are so super special that no other woman( or man) will turn their heads.the train has pulled into the station…..this is it. True love.
      They think they only needed to lie to you.
      They think family and kids, and commitment meant nothing only with you.
      They are going to be “woman enough” to keep him.
      Fools.
      One would think that an affair partner would subscribe to the philosophy that if they will do it with you, they will do it to you. That they would always be on high alert and insecure.
      I dont know about anybody else, but the ow my ex abandoned his family for feels like a superior being. She’s cocky, arrogant, mean…unapologetic and really feels as if I and his kids must have been deficient in some way and that he’s finally stumbled on an exceptional spouse.
      She’s “exceptional” alright.
      It’s her problem now, I’m out.
      Point is, my ow isn’t dancing, she’s gloating.
      Jokes on her, I’m laughing all the way to the bank.

      • This is my ex’s OW exactly. Gloats. Sent pictures. Told me she taught him what true love is. Sent long emails about all the special things they did together (garden, work out, stroll in the park). I resisted the urge to respond and say, “We were married 28 years; you think he never did those things with me?” She truly thinks she is special. So delusional. And unbelievably competitive and cruel.

        • There is no way, under the Sun, if someone was TRULY happy- would she stop to report her happiness to you.

          And I am not one of these people that believes all cheaters and OW are miserable. I think the majority of them are greatly impressed with themselves. Delusional.

          But you believe me: have you ever been in the moment of being deliriously happy and thought about wanting to obsessively share it with someone you don’t even like? There’s no way.

          She has to keep the triangles going to impart meaning to their relationship. She is a fucking clown.

          • @mommo mommo: WORD 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

            “have you ever been in the moment of being deliriously happy and thought about wanting to obsessively share it with someone you don’t even like? There’s no way.

            She has to keep the triangles going to impart meaning to their relationship. She is a fucking clown.”

            Ding ding ding ding 🎉🎉🎉🎉

        • I’m so sorry, shkeefer. That’s awful. I hope you delete her emails, block her social media, and throw any letters out without reading them. Or take them to your lawyer.

        • Just once I’d like to reply to these horrid biotches…

          “You sound so insecure and have too much time on your hands. Wonder what Bob’s up to?”

        • I am sorry this happened to you. It is so cruel. I received a picture my ex took of his very young girlfriend with my kids sitting close together on the coach with his feet draped over her lap. He said’look at how happy we are and the kids love it here, and we are so happy to not have to deal with your crap anymore’ I didn’t respond, but it hurt. To think this was my best friend.

        • There’s also the AP that feels okay with being part of this because they are sold the bill of goods that the marriage was over regardless. The whole “ he was going to leave you even if I wasn’t in the picture. You didn’t make him happy, I do. #sorrynotsorry.
          Not only because I know now what I wish I knew then….but any guy that told me I should hook up with them because they are leaving regardless I would have to respond with “well….leave then. When you’ve been in your place for 6 months and your divorce is moving along then perhaps you may want to date.” Although, I wouldn’t want to date anybody I had to say that to.
          I don’t know how you feel comfortable dating somebody who’s been single for one day after he ended a 20 year relationship.
          I guess if you’ve been banging him behind every dumpster in town for a few years prior to that it’s all good.

      • The first thing my sister-in-law said when I told her her brother left us for his coworker: Doesn’t she know he’ll cheat on her if he cheated with her??!

        A few months later OW is texting our daughter asking if she knows where her dad is…. he’s not answering her texts…… oops.

        I hear they argue all the time. But then my ex used to say how he used to like to fight and then have make up sex with his ex girlfriends. I never did that with him. I thought it did not sound like fun or part of a mature normal relationship at all. Go figure. Well, now that he’s arguing with his gf all time time I’m sure he’s having lots of wonderful make up sex.

        My house is calm and peaceful.

  • My Pick Me Dance was rather world class since my foe was single, childless, attractive, made 6 figures, spoke 2 languages and drove a BMW. In the end, I ended up winning. My prize was a cranky selfish man who refused to discuss his betrayal and kept blaming me for everything.

    I have thought a jillion times what I would say to her should I ever see her (which would likely be in an airport since we live on opposite coasts.

    For a while I thought I would say “You fucked my dead husband!” (which wold surely gain the attention of passersby)

    but I think the revenge served cold would be “I now realize he should have left me for you since you were his one true love, too bad he died” (cue forever torment and misery)

    • I did run into OW#1 at an airport about a year after she fled for the hills. It was deeply unsatisfying. I told her that X and I were going to be fine, and said, “Here is a tip. He is MARRIED. I don’t care if you see some guy going through his mid life crisis and you think he is being mistreated by the wife…he is MARRIED.” And she just shriveled away and said, “I am so, so, sorry.”

      Deeply unsatisfying. Yes, I got the “sorry” but I was still left with the loser X who abandoned me 9 years later for an even younger OW#2. Any self-satisfaction that I won the turd was fleeting in the moment and now totally ridiculous in hindsight. Had OW#1 won the turd she could have spent the 9 intervening years dealing with his angry teenaged daughters, his abuse of her, and his ultimate discard. Bummer she missed it all.

      • I’m sure you are right. The experience has been so many years ago that the person who OW was those years ago may very well not be who she is today (not that I think she ever became a truly decent human). There is also no statute of limitations on trying to ruin someone’s family but I accept to fact that my airport rants will forever exist nowhere except my imagination.

        • Yeah, I get that. Occasionally I still fantasize about blowing up OW#1’s house and wish she got cancer. The anger never really goes all away. She is a cockroach and a miserable human. I have tried to accept that if it wasn’t her it would have been another cockroach for the asshat.

    • Schmoopie was a SAHM with five kids. I couldn’t compete with that as I had a career and we only had three kids. Ex wanted more kids and always resented my career because there was nothing in it for him (that he could recognize). He found the perfect woman who would have given him what he had wanted if he had married her instead of me 25 years ago. What good he thinks that is going to do him now is beyond me. She’s 49 and he’s had a vasectomy. Really, all he might potentially get is the financial burdens associated with raising her kids when her ex gets tired of paying. Wee.

      It doesn’t matter who they are, we can’t complete because we are not new and different.

      • Oh, she does speak four languages, I only speak three. I guess that was a step up. There are two countries he can visit with her had have an interpreter that he couldn’t visit with me and have the same. Not that he can afford to travel but that might not stop him. Oh well, his debt, not mine.

      • What a dream for him, snort! Yes, how wonderful his new life with 5 step kids will be! Such a dumb ass you are now free of!!

        • Only three left at home now but they are all girls and he always wanted more sons. Before I bore him his two sons, he had lived in female dominated households for most of his life and he hated it.

  • I know of at least one OM who taunted and gloated to the guy chump after he found out. I presume it happens more.

    • Well, she clearly didn’t deserve Guy Chump then and I hope she’s fabulously miserable with OM

  • I didn’t pick me dance either. I was just so glad that asshole got someone else to beat up instead of me. OW was VERY nervous about the fact that I didn’t pick me dance so she did instead. He wanted to come back after three weeks but I told him to F off. I really think OW didn’t know which foot to dance on because “that wasn’t the way it was supposed to work out”. Ha! She cheated on him about 3 years later and I got my freedom and my life back!

  • I have the misfortune of a sociopathic OW for sure. I’ve only given her my peace on on D-Day yet still months later she feels the need to text me book (Love Dare) and movie (Fireproof) recommendations to improve my marriage. My response in my head is like… “I’ll be on chapter 6 while you’re effing my husband”. She lets me know she’s kicked my stbx out of her house (to let him back hours later)… Im thinking do I thank her for heads up of him knocking on my door?? She’s even gone as far as letting me know of her of her ultrasound appointment as if I would enjoy being there. She’s desperate to dance but I’m not falling for it! Thank goodness I found CL!

  • I didn’t know there was a pick me dance going on. When I “lost” I was told “ you were supposed to be winning me back”.
    Don’t know who won, don’t care!

      • Wow smh that is really something – must be common among them! My lying cheater always told me I didn’t fight for him. All butt hurt and sad. Yes, I guess after each DD and even DD #1000 where he returned fresh from a Vegas weekend with his “purse and pussy” OW – I was supposed to throw myself at his feet and fight for *us*. They really are delusional.

    • I did pick me dance for a few months before I wised up. He still told our daughter I “didn’t fight hard enough” for him. She wasn’t sure if he meant before or after DDay. Before DDay I didn’t know there was a competition and I didn’t know I was supposed to be fighting for him. Even so, I had spent years trying unsuccessfully to make him happy because he was so sullen all the time. I don’t see why I was the one who was supposed to be doing all of the dancing. Wasn’t he supposed to be proving his love for me too? It’s always so one directional with these assholes.

        • I think that is exactly what ex had been doing for years, long before he cheated. When he ran out of other things to blame for feeling “unmoored” as he put it, he blamed me. He might eventually get around to blaming her, but I fear it might be easier to just continue to blame the ex wife.

          • Yeah, I realized that while current girlfriend (not the AP; she dumped him. For another man. Twice.) will never have a loving, caring, fun and respectful boyfriend, she may not get the absolute worst of my ex. Because now he has ME to be responsible for all his unhappiness, and because of the kids (who I have alienated from him, of course 😉 ), I can keep that role forever. Plus I think she has family $$$$$, so he’ll treat her somewhat better, be better at dancing back from the brink when she gets totally fed up.

            There always has to be somebody responsible for their unhappiness and the crap way their lives go. Couldn’t POSSIBLY be anything THEY do.

            • Don’t count on the family $ thing to make any difference. Ex got more $ out of my family than his and I don’t think his Schmoopie has much to offer there. Eventually they stop noticing the positives and focus on the negatives.

              • Agreed. I have a bit of family money and all it meant was that ex thought it was super-cool for the couple of first years of marriage and then resented the hell out of me for the following decades. He didn’t get to feel like I was a damsel in distress or that I needed him (although, of course, I did indeed need a good man with integrity to be my partner and a father to our kids) the way his penniless OW did.

      • @chumpedinrecovery: yes! So true— all the BS blameshifting is one directional but it took NC and a lot of distance to see it. For instance, X said:

        1) you never MADE me happy (what about the happiness of our 4 kids? What about my security and right to be free of terror, to say nothing of happiness?!)

        2) you never supported me (what about my support as you fucked others then tried to rob me in the divorce?!)

        3) our marriage had been bad/over for a long time (really? I never got that memo — you said how much you lived and appreciated me daily, we did a lot of fun things together and you acted happy, we made love frequently, I still did every WIFE task and far more than you did as a husband!?)

        Etc etc etc
        🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

        • I love the rewriting of history- all to protect their terrible decisions!
          He told me “she’s my best friend”, I said go live with her then
          3 weeks later, “I didn’t mean that you are”
          FO
          What is wrong with them?
          Disloyal, cowardly fuckers

    • Me too! I was supposed to fight for him and our marriage! I gave up too quickly ( after a few DDays in a matter of months uncovering his total double life for 12 years). Apparently, my reason for ditching him is because I now have a good job and don’t depend on STBX financillay. Not that he did anything wrong, but it’s really my greed over not sharing the salary I earn. If not my current job, I would be forced to stay and accept the sucky marriage we had.

      That’s what you think, idiot!

    • Yeah me too. During one of our last conversations before I left him XH said he was hurt because I didn’t fight for him. I assume “fight” is another word for “pick me dance”? The universe could not have delivered a better ending: he convinced his married girlfriend to leave her husband of 25 years and marry him. HAHAHAHA GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

    • LOL. My Cheater told me my “best asset” for “winning” him back was the view from the house I bought myself. LOL. So many things wrong with this belief I don’t know where to start. I found a list where he listed my strengths and weakness v. OW’s strengths and weaknesses. Again, LOL. After 37 years of marriage, he lists that I have “good taste” as my greatest strength. (Full disclosure–I do think I have good taste in most things except picking husbands). Her strengths are she is always happy and active and likes to ski. Can anyone beat this Cheater on the shallow scale?

    • Oh, yeah – I want to fight for someone who lied, cheated, betrayed his family, was not sorry for any of it, and became cruel to both me and our child. They are so delusional they think we should fight for that. No thanks.

      • Precisely NoMoreCamping. Talk about ego! What makes him think he is a “prize” I want to win? I spent some time hoping for the Karma bus to hit and then realized it already had–lying Cheater and Lying OW have found each other. If that isn’t karma, I don’t know what is. If either of them thinks the other is going to stick around when the going gets rough, they are going to be very surprised.

  • I suspect my ex’s ow, is on chump lady. Actually I think they deserve each other! She especially liked the p.m. Dance. She tells some terrible lies, as my ex would say, so f…ing what!

  • I just don’t get why OW think they are special? I don’t get why they place value in a person who has proven that they are a liar and will betray the very person they are supposed to be closest and loyal to?

    I most certainly do not want to untangle the skein of OW or OM. But doesn’t the very act of becoming attached to someone who is not available reveal something about them?

    I just can’t put my finger on it. I’ve never acted on my attraction for an attached person – in fact, when I find out someone has a partner, it kills my desire for them rather than inflames it.

    But these OW seem to think that their affair relationship is different in some way to other affairs, and the affair is somehow different if not superior to the cheater’s marriage. And they don’t seem to care that they are investing in a proven cheater and liar. I just find it perplexing.

    And if the OW know it’s wrong to get involved with attached people, why do they do it? Why do they think that it’s ok for them to do something that’s wrong for other people to do?

    • It’s a huge ego boost for the OW to “win” the husband away from a wife and family. It’s such a monumental and destructive event she thinks in her itty bitty brain that it means she’s really hot stuff if a guy would do that for her. Narcissistic people do not reflect on themselves either, so she’s not thinking about how he lies to everyone, in her mind he is lying for her, not to her. Cheaters are also, at their cores, gullible. They buy into the ego stroking that would have a normal person seeing red flags flying everywhere.

      • This is really so true! The crap the ow pulled on me on fb was ridiculous. It was worth getting arrested dumping tea on her… lol

    • This is why I call OM “moron” – this moron had his previous relationship end when he discovered gf was cheating on him. So he then proceeds to hook-up with a married woman who is a known cheater?
      This one will be different. This one is twu wuv!

      No, there won’t be any insecurity problems in THAT relationship. Riiight. Fucking idiot.

      • The whore already went AWOL once for several days, and moron was freaking out, even to the point of thinking whore had returned to me.

        Moron.

        • I swear, some people really mix up the concepts of “passion” and “drama”. Like it can’t be “real love” if your partner isn’t routinely panicked/sobbing over you. Drama carousels just make me nauseous.

    • Bingo- Attraction level goes to negative for me, too, when I find out about prior commitments. This garbage about “you can’t help who you fall in love with” is such total bullshit and stems from entitlement and poor character. If you hear that phrase from anyone, RUN in the other direction.

      • Last guy I dated had a harem. Instant turn-off.

        Idiot lady friend who had set us up together said sadly, ‘Well, if you’re not prepared to fight for him …’

        LIKE HELL.

        Idiot lady friend then married a guy she’d known for ten months total, with whom she had nothing in common, because Last Chance Saloon. We watched her shape-shift to ‘catch’ him. The words ‘love-bombing’ were used by disinterested onlookers.

        Both she and Harem Pants are now blocked on FB. Hard and painful, because I had always liked ILF until she showed exactly how great an idiot she was. But very necessary for my sanity.

    • I’m with you. I am not attracted to men I know are attached. If they come on to me, I find that unattractive. Even before all of this I was not attracted to attached men. Now I don’t think I would be attracted to a man I knew had ever cheated even if he was unattached at the time that I met him.

      • I agree! I remember my cheating ex was absolutely stunned one night when I became highly insulted by his friend making a pass at me. He said, “Aren’t you flattered that he finds you attractive?” He could not believe that it wasn’t a contact high for me that some jerk was trying to get sex off me! I said “NO! When a man hits on you knowing you are married it is the worst kind of offensive insult. It is not flattering that he hopes you are of such low moral character that you’ll have sex with anyone who asks.” I should have known then. If he had been a decent man he would have been insulted FOR me.

    • “I just can’t put my finger on it. I’ve never acted on my attraction for an attached person – in fact, when I find out someone has a partner, it kills my desire for them rather than inflames it.“

      This!!!! I have always been like this and am GRATEFUL. The one time I went unknowingly on a date with a married man, I told him to GTFO. (I noticed a tan line on his wedding ring finger during the date).

      My husband allegedly told the Lower Companion that his family was his priority (?!!!!). Right. The insanity is inexplicable.

    • I’m betting that most of the APs are just as selfish and immature as the Cheaters. So they really do believe they’re special, and the rules don’t apply to them, and that everything they do is excellent. They do the same kind of justifying in their heads.

      I do love it when reality hits them, that’s a special flavour of Schadenfreude.

    • This is an excellent point.

      Maybe because we’re not cut from the same moral cloth?

      In my case, the OW was cheated on by her ex-boyfriend for a few times. Her next BF is STBXH. She didn’t know he was married (or so she said), but when she found out, she still continued the affair anyway. I find it ironic that someone who was cheated on before can convince themselves that it’s ok to do that to another woman. Early on when I was doing the pick me dancing I was told how she was “conflicted” and was angry that she will be known as “the other woman”, but hey, hot damn if she will do anything to stop participating in it (she’s still there).

      They’re both disordered, but I think that she’s going to even more screwed up after this experience with STBXH, and will probably be doomed to repeat the vicious cycle in every relationship thereafter. The karma bus is not too far away for both of them, and I hope I’ll reach a stage where I won’t be bothered at what happens to either one of them.

    • It’s the thrill of taking someone away from their partner.
      My ex did it twice in 2 marriages and didn’t stay with either
      Thrill of the chase
      Builds up their fragile ego
      Go for it fucker, just get away from me!

  • The endlessly punchable OW who posted FB photos of The Human Pustule and her in bed….. while we were still together…. recently was convicted of several felony drug charges.

    When this happened, Pustule left her.

    She began frantically posting of pictures with her with other men, clearly trying to make him jealous. It looked like she was at a truck stop. Her banner on her Facebook page now reads boldly :

    I Refuse to Sink!!!

    I have no sympathy for her. This is due to this sociopathicic delight she took in terrorizing and demeaning me. If I were to see her homeless under a bridge and all of her meager belongings in a grocery cart, I would roll her grocery cart down the side of an embankment and then spit in her face.

    She was 24. He was 48.
    Their relationship was based on drug use and the thrill of chumping me. I found this site. And I completely removed myself from their 10th circle of hell.

    Sink bitch sink!!!

  • My cheater broke No Contact about a month ago, and stupid me answered the phone. Amongst the attempted mindfuck of a conversation was the accusation that I didn’t do enough pick-me dancing.
    (Oh I did my share, trust me – like 6 to 8 months of it!)

    “You didn’t try hard enough. You only showed up at my work once.”

    Riiight. Even that was once too many…

    • This happened to me too! Mine sat on my porch steps looking forlorn and whined that after he filed for divorce I got a lawyer and responded to begin proceedings. He expected me to take his filing for divorce as a signal to work harder to get him back. This was too much for me. I asked him how many times he expected me to line myself up for his rejection. It really didn’t seem to occur to him that I have limits and had reached them. He still can’t deal with the fact that I want nothing to do with him, and complains frequently that I won’t take his calls or discuss our kids over anything but text or email.

      • Exactly. You reach a point where you’ve had enough rejection, you’ve swallowed enough pride (and shit sandwiches), and decide to keep what little is left of your dignity and self-worth.

        But they would really like just a little bit more. Pleeez?

      • Your x overplayed his hand and came to realize it too late. I would give a lot to have the experience of looking at him after he realized he had used up his very last chance with me. (But I’m also sure that it wouldn’t be as good as I imagine it would)

    • Same here. My wife “doesn’t understand how I can just turn off my emotions for her.” She’ll ask questions like, “You don’t want me in the house anymore?” or “Are you doing this because there is someone you want to date?” So clueless. My emotions are gone because of a year of continual betrayal, lies, and not respecting my boundaries that I very clearly expressed both at home in in MC.

  • No Shit Cupcakes- he has a script for the magical pills, but claims he doesn’t need them. He eats walnuts by the handful instead. Apparently, those are magical nuts?

    I doubt 27 year-old will hang around long. His kids are older than she is, and they pretty much hate him right now. I am just bracing for Sad Sausage hoovering when this all goes south.

    • Walnuts or pistachios? If character is measured by the circumference of a male theater’s testes…

      In case I wasn’t clear, I am NOT criticizing male chumps.

      • Definitely walnuts. And yes, I’m pretty sure his old man cheater balls are starting to resemble them. Not that I have any interest AT ALL in checking!

  • Screwing another woman’s spouse AND tainting the name of Samuel Clemens is over the top; may that OW suffer numerous internal parasites straight from a Discovery Channel documentary.

    (I have a feeling troll-zapping might be a prime activity today.)

  • For 2 years I ignored the red flags which allowed my ex sociopath & OWhore to trianglate me. But when I almost had a nervous breakdown.. I filed. He quickly moved in with her.

    After 35 years married I knew I was losing a piece of crap & handed him over to whore. Karma showed up
    & whore died!

    He’s now with another so good luck to her. Cheaters
    will never change. Evil narcissist 😈

  • OW writing to CL to ask for “help” in getting rid of Cheater’s wife rather proves the point of just how shallow and selfish OW are. Everyone should “help” them get what they want because, after all, that is what is important. Not loyalty, not marriage vows, certainly not the kids. OW Matter. I can see the t-shirt now to support this poor group of women. LOL.

  • My ex wife was the OW to her married COW. While playing the marriage police to figure out what the hell was going on in my marriage, I overheard her talking to her friends about how she couldn’t understand why her guy wanted to stay with his wife – she was so dull, not social, not that great looking, etc.

    Her other boyfriend though (yes, there was more than one in the end – big chump that I was), she couldn’t understand why he fooled around on his fiance (who was my ex’s friend no less) because that girl was more “fun”. It’s was big fun at the end of my marriage with her married OM being jealous of her newer other, OM (maybe he was OOM). So glad I left.

    Anyway, having lived with, and been married to, an OW for so long, I can tell you that they are narcissistic sociopaths to the nth degree. They believe that the world is there to serve them (entitlement) and that anybody deemed not “worthy” in their eyes deserves all of the shit that comes their way (whether that’s their own spouse, or you).

    • My wife was the other woman too, and she truly believed the married man was going to leave his wife for her, yet he couldn’t be bothered to learn my exes last name, she wasn’t “allowed” to message him after 5pm or at weekends, and yet she felt they had a “special connection” & twu wuv, it was so embarrassing, I was just dumbfounded by the sheer stupidity. 14 months out for my daughter and I and I must say things are getting better.

  • You forfeit all rights to my heart
    You forfeit the family we could have had
    You forfeit the future
    So I’ll take care of their needs big and small..all day..everyday
    You can take her
    I’ll get them ready for school
    You can take her
    And I’ll continue to clean up after them continuously
    And you can take her
    Cause they need me so much right now..even though it drains me completely.
    And you can take her
    But I dread the day they don’t need me anymore
    When they won’t hold my hand
    When they stop dressing up in Superman-princess outfits
    When broken crayons are replaced by broken hearts.
    It all comes faster than you’d like.
    So I’ll take the tired
    I’ll take the interrupted showers
    The empty tank
    Because one day too soon I’ll have an empty house.
    And you can take her and your empty heart.

    (Inspired by some cheesy commercial I saw)

    • Your kids will always love you and will one day realize and appreciate the sacrifices you made for them.

    • My daughter is 11 now…WE have recently been chumped. She and I went out for dinner last night in the convertible and had fun being together. Her dad broke her trust too and that can NEVER be undone. I would choose her over a Craigslist hooker any day of the week. I win.

      • Beautiful, Betrayal2Trail, thank you!

        Exactly, Velvet Hammer! I didn’t ‘win’ because my kids have chosen to not see their father at all. That, to me, is a loss; I chose such a fuckwit as a partner that my kids have ended up with no dad after having loved him and trusted him so much. That is never what I wanted for them, and not even what I thought would happen once I kicked the twice-cheating, abusive, miserable bastard out. The win, to me, is that my kids trust me and know I will always be there for them. Through the good and the bad, the routine and the special, all of it.

        • My single biggest regret in this life, and one that will haunt me with guilt forever, is that I chose so poorly in finding a father for my children.

          • Same here, but I also deeply regret that I didn’t leave him when his first long-term affair was discovered 25+ years ago (I tapped our phone to get proof). Even worse, I allowed him to come back after he left us for the whore. Apparently, she was also a cheater and his ego couldn’t take it. (Numb-nuts, she was married when you first got together with her!) Stayed with him through all the subsequent affairs, one-night stands, porn, sexting, and hookups with men on Craigslist. Not to mention the drunken rages, meanness and cruelty to us and our pets. So I failed my children miserably, and they are all showing the signs of either being Chumps and/or Cheaters now.

  • I too did the pick me dance for awhile. I agreed to make my marriage work. And my husband STBX actually did cut off all contact with my POS cousin. I won the pick me dance. But, I won was being haunted by her. I won a man that I did not trust. I won a man that would not be totally honest about his affair. If he could have been totally honest and answered all my questions I most likely could have worked it out. My cousin has been telling anyone who knows me that I am a nut job. That the only reason why I agreed to try to make the marriage work was because I wanted his money. Yup, I wanted his money I always earned at $10.00 an hour more than him and I always paid all the bills. She is telling people that she dumped him because she was not going to waste her time with a married man. She only dated him for 4 years. She continues to brag that all her friends husbands are begging her to go out with her. All this comes from a women who is in debt. Begs people for money. And I was the one who stayed for the money. My STBX is no longer with the skank and continues to ask me back. I have come to the conclusion that women who cheat with married men think they are entitled to and think the wife deserves to be cheated on. And if my POS skank of a cousin would have won the turd in her mind she would have his and my money and finical security. At the expense of me , my children and grandchildren. Pathetic actually.

  • I did the pick me dance this weekend. Ugh. I was doing SOOO WELL post me leaving. My ex was lying to me from the start and playing about 8 of us. I changed my life for him and gave up my job and moved to be with him. The whole discovery of complete f*cked-up-ness has been nothing short of devastating to me and has brought me to such terrible lows. I cry, pick myself back up again thinking I’m going to be okay and then a wave of tears comes over me and I fall back down again. I am doing everything I can to stay sane and I know I will get there but I’m still in the angry/sad phase.

    I wish I didn’t attempt contact and demean myself in front of more than just him. What was I thinking? The pick-me-dance is nothing more than the bastard making me crazy, not to mention looking crazy and watching myself degrade myself.

    I wish I could turn it back, but there is no looking back. I can only restart no contact and move forward.

    • Do not beat yourself up for what you did. You are not dealing with ‘normal’ here. You are a good person who has had an absolutely rotten thing done to them. Sometimes rational thinking just doesnt cut it. Go for the 80/20 rule. Be ‘cool’ 80% of the tiime and accept that for right now there maybe 20% time of doing stuff you wish you hadnt. It will pass, it will get better, the odds will reduce in your favour Hang in there and be KIND to you.

      PS: Stop saying ‘if only I hadnt….. ‘ right now. Its done. Be present in this moment and grateful you are posting here instead of sendng him some kind of attention

      • Thank you for your insights and clarity on how to approach my situation. I agree: Be in the Moment and be kind to myself.

        I realize he enjoyed the triangulation and then later taunted me with it.

        So f*cked-up. I’m glad I left him.

        • and the further away from the leaving you get the more ‘glad’ you will be and you’ll add in happy, peaceful, grateful and lots of other stuff . Take care

          • I feel for anyone going through this
            He took me to my knees and it took me three years to walk up right.
            I am using the outdoors and music to heal me
            Find good people and have fun with them
            God bless

    • It’s not easy letting go of someone you loved. My D-Day was May 17 and my divorce is final today. I would give anything to grab hold of him and shake the shit out of his miserable head. But, he doesn’t care about me or our last 19 years. He only cares about his new-found happiness with the shiny new penny. I told my best friend that divorcing me might the nicest thing he ever did for me. Time will tell.

      Take one day and one victory at a time – you can do this!!! You are mighty!!

      • Thank you, Miss Bailey. I’m sorry you had to go through this as well. It’s not easy for anyone except people without a conscience. That’s the hard part, I think, the reconciliation of how easy we are to be disposed of when we cared so deeply and gave so much of ourselves to a taker.

        I believe he is truly a sociopath and devoid of empathy, so I can rationalize what happened to me, but it still doesn’t make it any easier….at least not today. I did a pick-me-dance with a sociopath. God, that is so cringe-worthy! Lol!

        Hugs to you. We are worth so much more than a new shiny penny. One cannot place a value on having a strong moral character.

        • Hugs to you NoNameToday. I understand the roller coaster of feelings. I thought it would never end. I cried almost every day for 2 month (found out about the divorce on April 24). Be kind to yourself, talk with your best buddies and allow yourself to have all your feelings. I’m still hovering between sad & mad, mostly mad these days. It will get better.

          • Miss Bailey,

            You are not alone dear – 🙋🏽‍♀️ I also cried every day for the first year after leaving my sociopath XH and finally coming to the conclusion of having to file for divorce from the imposter that he became after almost 20 years! This has been the most devastating blow as my children and I watched him implode our lives without an ounce of remorse or concern for the betrayal & pain he caused us.

            I have continued to be blessed aand progressive in life since leaving him. I take things day by day and slowly but surely am gaining back my life and identity now that Ive left and divorced him. This is my time to discover what I want for my life now.

            Im not completely at meh yet but Im getting there and now realize that leaving and divorcing him was the best decision that I made! He is miserably broken and will wash, rinse and repeat this behavior repeatedly because he cant accept for one minute that all the problems sre his NPD & will continue to follow him and his disordered ass to each and every relationship.

            Hang in there hon & big hugs to you 🤗

            p.s. I laugh sometimes bcuz you use some of the same phrases that I do in some of your posts (i.e. “shake the shit outta him”) Lol

  • Three cheers for the OW! Take that special prize! Invest in him! Give him your heart! Believe him when he says you’re special and your love is true! Look all around you at all the amazing successful relationships that spring up from cheating! Oh…wait. Hmm. Not finding those? Then of course it’s yours! No room for doubt! Google “signs of cheating” to make sure. Password for his phone? We assume you already have that. Yea You!!

  • My ex was telling me he was leaving. I’d just stand there looking at him. I was in shock from the discovery of lies and betrayal. I never cried in front of him (thanks to the treatment I got from first narc husband I was kinda prepared for this one). After he was out all night I lost it. He said, “I told you I was leaving!” And I’m like, well why haven’t you left – you aren’t going to do this to me and your daughter!

    He cried, “I have no where to go!”

    Oh my gosh. So pathetic. He got some clothes and left. I changed the locks.

    He moved in with coworker and bought bigger new shiner toys to go camping and boating with. And he’s still miserable. His daughter is disgusted with him. She said she wants to be nothing like him. Since she’s on to him and doesn’t want to see him, he makes no effort to see her or repair thier relationship. As said above – like we’re wiped off the map. Good riddance.

  • The disordered secret affair partner contacted me on Christmas Morning of our planned gender reveal celebration with our 3 pre-school aged children (surprise, it’s a girl!) to reveal the secret affair to me. As a 3x divorced, 15 year older, Divorce Attorney by profession, she went on to name herself as a witness in our divorce and hired her own attorney to represent her. She enjoyed full participation in my divorce.

    The OW continually contacted me with pornographic “screen shots”, insults, and deeply personal questions about my marriage. Despite my pregnancy, she treated me with outrageous cruelty and vindictive anger. She refused to leave me alone. She wrote insulting messages “mocking” me. She made fun of my pregnancy figure. (I’m a post partum size 2.) She wrote deranged messages comparing the ability of her 3 ex-husbands to “get her off” compared to my husband.

    I had to block her Facebook, her fake Facebook, her cell phone, my husband’s cell phone – which she used to contact me. My ex-husband then began using burner phones to display the 3 narc channels. After the divorce, I discovered a high tech GPS device had been hidden in my car for months, enabling my abusive ex-husband to stalk, harass, and assault me.

    When I had to contact the police department and go to trial for stalking, sexual assaults, and other abuses – the OW showed up to Court (the only time I ever saw her in person) and glared at me. Going to Court to face your abuser and hold him accountable is scary enough. I cannot fathom what this OW was thinking to insert herself in something so terrifying and traumatizing to me.

    No contact and gray rock has been a life saver. Neither the OW nor my abusive ex-husband has been able to follow the Court Order protecting me from further abuse. They both feel a sense of entitlement, like they are above the law. I just keep on being the sane parent to our 4 young children. I have firm boundaries that are enforced with a Court Order. I refuse to participate in their sick and twisted triangle. Everyday I am so glad I filed for divorce and got away from the abuse.

    • I have no idea how you maintained your sanity. I’m sorry you went through this, but this site has helped me realize my situation was so much easier than the horrific holy shit other people were subjected to. I try to count my blessings. Your kids are lucky to have you.

      • Thanks, Zell. This blog really makes me count my blessings too. It has opened my eyes to how difficult all of this is for all Chumps. While reading here, I have learned so many valuable lessons. I am so, so fortunate to have gotten out as (relatively) early as I did. And all things considered, I had the best possible outcome, once the storm was weathered. Thank goodness for CL and CN!

    • Oh my goodness, surely since OW is an attorney you must have some recourse to get that bitch struck off for stalking or something. I’m so glad you and your children are out of there but I hope karma rears its ugly head for them both – and soon!

    • I’m so sorry you had to go thru that. Unfortunately since we have kids with these disordered fucks we will never be completely free. Stick to your boundaries and hold fast. My x narc also thinks he is above the law, contacting me via email even though I have a protective order for myself and my son against him. I have about one year left until it expires. I worry all the time what he will do when that happens.

      • Prison Chump, I had it written in our parenting plan agreement that ex-husband can ONLY ever communicate with me via OFW (Our Family Wizard) and that the communication must be specifically about the kids (and not threatening or sexual, etc). No one other than ex-husband is permitted to communicate with me on our OFW accounts (ie, OW). It has helped tremendously. I am a huge fan of OFW. (Although, he is always trying to get around my boundaries and not comply). Stay safe. Document everything. Block whenever you are able. Be careful. Big hugs to you!

        • Thank you. You too!

          Right now there is no formal visitation agreement. And the decree just states that it should be mutually agreed to or through the courts. I plan to keep it the way it is (no contact) for as long as possible.

      • Prison Chump, report every single violation of the protective order. Do it now. A PO doesn’t do jack if you do not report the violations. Only do this if you are sure he’s afraid of jail, otherwise doing so could escalate his violence and put you in more danger.

        Also, check with your lawyer to see if you can renew the PO. In my state a ‘permanent’ PO only lasts 2 years. I’ve been renewing mine since it was granted in 2011. Next year I think I’ll loose it cos he has finally stayed away. I am lucky the asshole is afraid of jail

        • Thank you for the advice Datdamwuf.

          I will definitely look to renewing it.

          Right now all emails have been nice, how he misses his son, how he is going to do right this time, insurance info, and that he is paying child support. So I don’t know if I have much traction for getting him thrown in jail. I just archive the email and ignore them.

          Funny thing he is to complete an anger management and battery intervention class, and in one email he said he was going to do it and send me proof. Do you think I have seen the proof???

          That man is nothing more than a bag of hot air.

    • Stalked, I’m sure I’ve mentioned this before and I get that you might not want to bring any further unwanted attentioned to yourself from the OW, but if you feel able, please report her to the local and/or state bar association. She is clearly insane and should not be practicing law. There are SO many ethical violations in the conduct you mentioned. Since she as well as your ex are subject to a court order protecting you from them, whatever body has oversight on attorney ethics and misconduct where you live should be advised. She is clearly a danger to you but may be to others as well. I admire your courage and fortitude in dealing with all this. You are very mighty!

      • Hi, Beth! I know, I really go back and forth in my mind with the benefits and risks about pursuing an official complaint with the state bar association.

        Some days, I am sure I need to do it. Other days, I am just so happy to be free of their abuse! I have spoken to the bar a little about the situation, and I would need to prove that OW broke her duty regarding something called Moral Turpitude. We would go toe to toe in a trial type of hearing and she would probably sue me relentlessly afterwards.

        One thing I do feel more convinced of as time goes on and I move away from the trauma and my babies get older, is I would be interested in pursuing a second career as some type of victim advocate. I can’t do anything to change what I’ve gone through (my experience dealing with the police, the assaults, and the stalking), but I can certainly use my experience and knowledge to help others.

        Beth, thank you to you and CL and CN for being a safe, sane place for me. Y’all are the best!

    • Dear God, what a suckfest. So sorry you suffered through that. That OW sounds like a twisted, fucked up person. How did you handle the gender reveal thing that Christmas morning? (I’m secretly relieved that I was done having kids before “gender reveal” became a thing)

  • I didn’t dance which apparently annoyed x. So to keep ow dancing he made up all kinds of bullshit that I supposedly did. The game goes on even if you’re not playing.

    • Shows how selfish and sick they are. They have this weird twisted diabolical desire to be “wanted”. They desperately search for an unrealistic “intensity”. They crave it like a drug.

  • Cheaters love the ‘high’. It’s exciting to them to cheat but also to see broken chump cry and pick me dance. My cheater XW thought of it all (even me being destroyed) as ‘passion’. I’ll never understand- and I’m working toward no longer trying or wanting to understand. I don’t think its understandable.

    As a male chump- I was never contacted by the AP. AP didn’t want my wife- she was merely a collection of orifices. He had a girlfriend his own age.

    I think OW antagonize the wife because they want to ‘win’. It makes them feel good/attractive that they were ‘chosen’. I think most OM are looking for easy sex- they get it and then they move on to the next one.

    • I think some OMs have a hero complex and want to rescue the “maiden in distress” from the “evil husband” and treat her the way she deserves to be treated. I think that is what happened to my ex. Schmoopie’s husband was “so cruel to have cheated on her and she was so kind to have taken him back” but he still didn’t give her the attention she craved and got uppity when she flirted with other men. Such a horrible person. Ex just had to rescue her. I also think he may have initially been in it for the sex but didn’t want to hurt her again after she had “been through so much” so he fell in love with her instead and hurt me instead because the feelings of the wife of 20+ years don’t matter as much as those of the latest dumbsel in distress who produces fresh kibbles. I guess in his mind hurting me instead of her made him less of an asshole. He had to prove he wasn’t just using her for sex because that would make him a bad person. Never mind me, or what it did to his kids or hers. Sorry ex, you don’t get to be the hero in this story. You are the villain.

      • My STBXH is VERY invested in his Nice Guy facade. He told me last week “he wasn’t always that guy.” (The alter-ego who cheated.). A couple days after, I got a call from a good friend in recovery who was part of his partying crowd growing up. She said, “When we were growing up, running around and using, STBXH was an ASSHOLE.” Oh, so you WERE that guy, and still are! New glasses with that phone call; I don’t think he is sober anymore. Lying about that too. He has the classic pot-smokers anti-detection kit in his truck….Ozium, Visine, and a Bic lighter…..

      • UGH. The knight in shining armor bullshit is so completely my X. By way of explanation, he’d say he was “being there” for the skanky ex-gf, as she “came out of a loveless marriage.” Then he’d add, with a look of shy wonderment, “But then she fell in love with me.” As if having an unstable, troubled loser on the rebound from a failed marriage fall for you is some kind of achievement. Really? Not to be dramatic, but it’s like in his pathetic little narrative, he had the option to be the hero and save one of us from drowning. He looked at the person who had loved and trusted him for 15+ years, and who was white-knuckling it through a difficult time, and then he looked at the sniveling mess for whom he currently felt infatuation. And he chose her instead. As he pulled her up into the lifeboat, he said regretfully, “I’m sorry, NotAfraid, but you know how to swim and she doesn’t.” My only consolation is that the next time he pulls this bullshit on someone, it won’t be me.

        • @NotAfraid,

          What is it with people who have a hero complex?! STBXH was also “helping” and consoling a new staff who was cheated on 5 times during her last relationship. He was proud to have “restored” her faith in men, and then they both started a relationship, one month after she joined the office.

          When their 3-month affair blew up in their faces thanks to the office staff who spoke up, he said that the AP was “shattered”. A stupid new employee who dates the boss for 3 months is the one that’s shattered, not the wife that’s been with him for 16 years. Sure.

          It was pure mindfuckery.

          • I’ll bet after hearing about my ex’s whorls husbands cheating on her
            That it was her cheating
            He was too niece to suspect
            Now We’ve got the real story

      • I haven’t spent much time trying to figure out the motives behind my cheater XW and her OM, but I think it may be a double case of knight in shining armor. They’ve known each other since high school, and I suspect had feelings for each other in their early 20s, so maybe they are reliving their younger years. OM is now 39, single and childless, with a past history of alcoholism, has never been in a long term relationship, and whose mother committed suicide several years ago. So, I think XW buys into the sad sausage story of how he hasn’t been able to find happiness in his life. Some of his circle of friends and family now say that they are so glad to see him finally happy and smiling again. Barf. I think OM also bought into the typical cheaterspeak from XW of how she just didn’t have a happy marriage, so he thought both this was his chance at a ‘real relationship’ and he could save her all at the same time.

  • My cousin has been divorced for 7 years, but wears his wedding ring.

    Why?

    Because he claims that women hit on him constantly when he wears it. He claims that when he doesn’t wear it….they don’t approach him. He puts it on…..and like magic….he is like a doughnut at a police convention.

    • Why would he want to attract that kind of woman? I would think it would be better to get fewer hits but higher quality ones.

  • I did pick me dance for a while but perhaps it was a bit half-hearted. I knew there was no way I could compete with shiny and new. I was terrified that he was going to leave me for her, but at the same time there was that a part of me that was afraid he wouldn’t and I would spend the rest of my life feeling inadequate and feeling like I needed to be grateful to him for picking me and desperately trying to make him not regret that choice and probably failing at it. I didn’t want to be with a man who would always resent me for the choice not made. Eventually I decided it would be better to be the one who got away even if he never does realize what he lost. He traded tarnished silver for fool’s gold and he may never know it.

  • I have been struggling lately, I’m 5 months divorced and 17 months from DDay4 and the day ex walked out because he “needs to be happy”. We are mostly NC, and same with our grown DS,DD who remain with me. I didn’t know I was dancing, I didn’t know about CL or CN and in many ways the other OW was in fact my ex mil because her POS son must be happy regardless of his marriage or children happiness. I do not think the original OW is still involved with him, I understand little about her except that she didn’t find ex that interesting without his travel and expense accounts and having to pay for 3 mortgages/rents put a real damper on his financial ‘happiness’. Never fear, his narc mommy paid for his divorce lawyer, a family friend who is mostly a real estate lawyer from 1955 so the matter dragged out for a year, good for me as I was able to benefit financially during the process. Also in many ways certain members of ex family are also the OPs in that they are cheaters and narcs (and they all have the diagnosis to prove it, I don’t throw this out lightly) and after 25 years they also wanted to watch my ex play around with something sparkly and shiny and enabled him and OW. Don Henley had a song “Dirty Laundry” that makes me think of my situation with my ex, his family wanted to drama and attention of the AP, and Pick Me Dancing, and the roulette of mediation, divorce and property division. All of this fell on me after ex walked out, his lawyer was a POS Narc as well and my lawyer and I played them like a bad song. Currently the realtor hired by me to sell the marital home is also playing the ex with my guidance. I hope his happiness was enough because karma bus has his stop on repeat. Why am I sad? I loved my marriage and family, I know everything isn’t perfect but overcoming adversity can often draw people closer, I thought that’s where we were, I loved the joys and struggles of family, I was ever hopeful for the retirement fun we discussed and planned for over 2 decades. I grieve the loss of the intended family future, I didn’t want anyone to suffer but I cannot help anyone who doesn’t tell me they need help. All this to say, the Dance and the OW/OM can come in many versions and are not limited to APs, so says CL by her explanation of the triangulation/hexalation or ddodecalation reference. Not at Meh, divorce was in fact a Tuesday, new job, new home, crafting new future means I’m working on my mighty. I thank the heavenly celestial beings of all kinds that I found CN and CL!!!

  • “Some people try to be tall by cutting off the heads of others.”

    In the beginning of this chump nightmare, I would get soooooo angry when I saw fuckwits twisting shit to fit their agendas; like OW using this blog to support their narrative, or posting inspirational quotes out of the context in which they were created.

    I’ve come to realize that context dropping is part of a fuckwits “perceived” super power… it’s just part of their suck! There’s no winning in trying to point out their twisted logic. I’ve definitely reached MEH in regard to expecting fuckwits to see beyond their own agenda’s.

    They are like parasites that live in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host’s expense. They create no substance of their own.

    They leach off of others work, apply Selective attention and context dropping by focusing on certain aspects of reality while excluding others, (actually departing from reality). When combined with repetition, selective attention increases the likelihood that exaggerations will be accepted as true accounts. In other words, tell a story enough times, and they believe their own lies.

    #cheaterfodder… it’s to be expected.

    • Yes context dropping. Ex was a master of that. During our first MC session I don’t think ex said anything that was an outright lie but everything he said lacked context which completely changed the way it would be perceived. I was too shell shocked to know how to respond.

  • I’m kind of disappointed that I scrolled through the comments and didn’t see any OW trolls chiming in. I figured Chump Lady asking them NOT to contact her/us would be like chum in the water. After all, they never saw a boundary that they thought applied to them. Plus it’s Monday morning and I feel like a good Troll Drubbing would be just the ticket to start off the week. 😉

  • I’m not very surprised that there are few OM that write to Chump Lady. I think there’s a very different dynamic between an OW and OM.

    An acquaintance of mine once told me that “if” he was going to cheat on his wife that he would do it with married women because they have too much to lose and he would get commitment free sex.

    In my own case I danced heroically for a significant amount of time trying to “win her back”. Given what little I know of the dynamic between Mme YogaPants and Senor MoneyBags I believe that she in turn was dancing the “pick me” for him. He is a widower so she had no specific competition but her hold on him was and presumably is tenuous.

    As far as triangulating with me, Mme certainly enjoyed the centrality of my dancing but as far as OM was concerned, I don’t think that I was a consideration of his at all.

    • “An acquaintance of mine once told me that “if” he was going to cheat on his wife that he would do it with married women because they have too much to lose and he would get commitment free sex.”

      Wow! I never would have thought this (mainly, because I don’t cheat!). But it sure gives insight into why my scumbag ex was trying to seduce married women.

  • I didn’t pick me dance when my ExH surprised me with divorce papers–our marriage wasn’t great and we had just purchased our dream property. We’d never discussed divorce much less separation. Not one step. I let him go; he soon was diagnosed with brain cancer and died with a gold digger leaving his death bed to withdraw every penny from his accounts before her power of attorney became void (at the time of his death). She got over a million dollars of MY money and there was nothing that could be done about it. I spent 4 years trying to get what was mine to no avail.

    I didn’t pick me dance when I realized POP was a chronic cheater and only using me to finance and continue his cheating ways. Not one step.

    I just became indifferent to their indifference.
    It wasn’t easy but I made it through. Being without them is better than being with them.

  • Exh1 cheated on me after 3 years of marriage. I didn’t exactly pick-me-up dance as in the true sense. Due to him screwing an underling, he got fired from his supervisory position of the time. Even though I had a college degree, I wasn’t employed at the time, DS1 was barely 3, so I stayed. Upon getting fired, he gave me a choice- stay and “get over it” (stop being angry, stop giving him he’ll, stop crying in front if him, etc) or leave with DS. I stayed.
    Six years after that, he was angry and resentful with me, became impossible to.live with or please, but I stayed and put up with it until he left me. My life was a nightmare for a while, but I learned so much more about myself and recovery, healing.
    I met now-exh2 almost soon after moving into my own place, about six weeks after divorce was final. I thought he was a godsend, my angel, my knight in shining armour… (Insert facepalm here)
    Thirteen years later, D-Day- abandonment-wreckonciliation-GTFO-day was about six weeks total. I did the pick-me-dance in the style of allowing myself to be used for hot water —— (he claimed to want reconciliation within days of moving into his mouth shack- turned out, he didn’t have the money to pay for the water heater to be turned on by the gas company, again facepalm)—- I allowed myself to be used for petty cash for cigarettes and Shiterado parts…

    Meanwhile, the OW he picked to leave his wife and child for is ten years younger than him, has two kids that need a daddy, blah blah blah

    OW is a chump herself. Her kids’ dad left her for a Hooters girl the day after her 2nd baby was born. She became his OW less than 2 years letter after being chumped herself…then she married him 4 months later.
    Exh2/TEO (The Evil One) is to be believed, they met after he “left” me (but was in wreckonciliation or so I thought for weeks with me) which means they met and married within five months.
    Three years later now.
    I’m in MEH-topia and they’re still together… I don’t know of their inner-workings, but supposedly he is now working out of town during the week, LOL he’s prowling I have no doubt, hut no longer my problem.
    The now-Mrs. Dumbass can keep him. Once I found out about her, I ceased and desisted in any and all attempts of contact with TEO.
    I should thank her really. Once she found out he was still married to me, and that he was still creeping around me, she must have put up an ultimatum, because he went to a lawyer soon after her discovery of his lies regarding our “divorce”. He paid for it, but I refused to sign unless the decree had everything I wanted. She must hold the keys to the golden pannnoooch, because he caved to my demands real quick.
    Thanks, Mrs. Dumbass!!!

    • Stories like these are why I don’t believe comments like, “Chumps are inherently good people.” Some of us are, and some, like the now-Mrs. Dumbass, are not.

  • I danced and danced, then danced some more. I’ll look better, I’ll be nicer, I won’t ask about the OW when we’re together. Douchebag loved it… told me if I would continue to act that way that I was certainly the better choice. OW posted and tagged him on FB about their dates (when I thought we were still working on our marriage).

    She “won”. I threw up the white flag and gave up… it was wrecking me emotionally.

    She sent the spousal support check to me- wrote it, signed his name and adressed it to me in purple pen. Initially I was pissed, then cashed that shit. It was her final statement of how she won. She can have him, his insecurities, his quest for looking good but he’ll never be anything but an empty shell.

    I won my freedom, peace and solitude. They deserve each other. Good hearts don’t cannibalize their kindred.

    • In six words…….In just 6 words, Lost summed up the difference between us and the cheaters.
      Most excellent!

      “Good hearts don’t cannibalize their kindred”

      ForgeOn! kindred…..Love you all!

  • Please also know that these attempts at triangulation do not end when the chump leaves. I have been divorced from my ex for five years now, and he still sends me emails/texts that are attempts at sucking me back in. He sent me an email this morning because I did not immediately write back to him about a non-emergency matter, and I’m sure that he hoped his condescension-laced lecture would provoke me to lash out at him.

    I’m proud to say that I’m holding steady in grey rock mode. It’s still hard at times, but I just picture him reading an angry email response of mine to the Owife and using it as a way to bond over my apparent “jealousy” over their “true love.”

    Unless you have a cheater who completely ghosts you, count on the fact that they will continue the drama to give them something to look forward to in their little lives. Once you leave the cheater, just keep calm and trust that they suck (We need that on a shirt.).

  • I was the other woman to the other woman. He was 64 years old. I was a a widow. He pursued me and presented himself as a single man. I give you the back story I learned on my own as I wove the threads together. I have some powerful detective skills with 100% success in my career work and they didn’t fail me here.

    Well, yes he was single, because he wasn’t married to her, Irene, just lived with her in the house she bought for him and his two grown sons. Her estranged husband made her sell the martial house, after she moved in the cheater guy and his two sons where the chumped husband’s teenage daughter lived. The woman was cheating on her husband while the cheater guy was cheating on his wife, two living together, married to others, cheaters. Complicated, already?

    Add this to the mix: the cheater guy was a financial and divorce planner and told the cheater woman to stay married to her hubby because he is to old and sick to divorce her, soon to be in a nursing home and she will inherit all assets instead of dividing them. And she did. For five years. She lived as a married woman with her cheater guy boyfriend. From 2005, when they both and his sons occupied her marital home, until 2007 when the cheated on husband got her out, and still managing to stay married, money for her and her cheater boyfriend on the stick, she bought another house with a down-payment from her half of the proceeds from her marital house, $187,000, and mortgage for the balance. She stayed married to her husband until he died, in 2010. Great for the cheater boyfriend, no legal financial obligation and he had no money, being down to his last $100, yes that’s one-hundred dollars for a 64 year old man with an MBA-so he said, but then he is already a predetermined liar.

    So now I was the chump and when I found out and asked him why he didn’t tell me, he said this, “I was going to tell you at the appropriate time, I love her, I’m never leaving her.” So I set him up, I manipulated him with a lie, mine, “I will never hurt you”. Something I have learned-narcissists think they are in control. They think they are so superior that nobody would dare to deceive them, nor could anyone EVER deceive them. Wrongo. They are actually stupid, because they believe that.

    I instantly found the ex-wife he cheated on multiple times in both marriages he had with the ex. Why two marriages to her? I believe and so does she, that her teacher’s pension in Illinois, ($6000.+ per month with annual 3% increase) would only be 50% his martial asset if he was married to her for 10 years. So while I was in the throes of pain, I acted. He never knew the lies I was telling him while reporting back to the ex-wife and she was seeing the karma and getting the precious vindication-that her ex hubby who had cheated on her with the woman who was cheating on her hubby, was now cheating on the cheater woman, with me. Getting more complicated? When in smarmyland do as the smarms do.

    This narcissist, not as smart as me. So, I told the ex-wife, “I am waiting for the right moment-I will catch him and I WILL create some nuclear explosion for this slime.” And I did-it was my birthday and he had never done or given me anything except a couple of gun magazines and a few, 4-5, Starbucks coffees. He categorically refused to say the words, “Happy Birthday”. It became a discussion, my, asking, questioning, “You can’t say happy birthday to me, you won’t say happy birthday to me, why won’t you say the words ‘happy birthday’ to me?” I acted wounded, (by now I was an excellent narcissist recognizer, they love, love hurting you-it’s the power)- ‘the better to catch you my dear, thought this big bad, wolf.’ .And he said, “Irene”, (the real name of the cheaterwoman turned chumpy woman who won the cheater in the pickme and I am quoting directly) “told me never to say happy birthday to a woman over 39.” The narcissist-never responsible-always someone else to blame.

    See the crystal clear narcissim here-let them know you want something and they will NEVER give it to you, no matter how simple, how easy, and it was the first time I had ever asked for anything. He would sit in my kitchen and in a demanding tone, just this way, “Coffee” accompanied by a fist bang on the table, ass in chair, him (yes, I know, a once stupid, lonely, vulnerable me, now an Uzi brain .)

    I responded, “did Irene ever tell you not to cheat on her?” Greyrock. I ended it and never saw him again, But he didn’t leave me alone. I knew he wouldn’t, as narcissists can’t handle rejection and he kept following the trap I planned like a ring through his nose and his ex-wife and I laughed at his stupidness, although we both felt the scars of our history with this man subsiding in this karma we were creating.

    I told him if he didn’t leave me alone, I would tell Irene. That’s when he said, “but, you told me you would never hurt me.” It’s even in an email he sent me that I still retain. Is that something? He who has hurt so many is concerned about his being hurt? See the pure narcissim here? Hurt financially yes, emotionally no and I knew that. He was concerned about the roof over his head-her house, in her name, with a big mortgage and $150,000 underwater from a $410,000 purchase-me- Real Estate Broker, Mortgage Broker, Paralegal and MBA, easypeasy to find out, as I followed my condign plan. She was paying all the bills, taxes, mortgage, and he, working on commission could hide all his income. After all, by 2011, when he started his pursuit of moi his cheater girlfriend’s hubby had died and she now had all the assets of her deceased in 2010, husband.

    So, he didn’t leave me alone. I told had rold him this truth, “leave alone or I will tell Irene”, and did I think he wouldn’t leave me alone? His ex-wife and I hoped he wouldn’t. He left a long letter hand-delievered by him or someone in my mailbox with an 8 oz. bag of ground Starbucks coffee. Yeah, not even a full lb. The letter basically accused me of causing him trouble, but not any detail about what that trouble might be. It accused me of stalking him, when I had not, yet he most likely came to my home, my driveway, my mailbox.. His letter accused me of being the problem because my father abused me. Yeah, it is one doozy of an epistle. I believe he did this to create a jack story for the roof p0rovider, just in case, just in case, just in case, he was exposed.

    Narcissists panic when exposure is eminent. BOOM, narcissist, now I gotcha, you son of a bitch. MY LETTER-4 pages to Irene, sent signed, certified receipt, with my name, contact info, some of his emails, proving he lied about his singleness. A pix of all his clothes, his gun in the cheap little print fabric holder he said, “Irene made it”, lumped on a chair with an unmade bed in the background. My condign plan to take when he went to pee as his old prostate called on him every 30 minutes. Then I sent a pix to the ex-wife of the signature on the signed receipt card to verify the signature-Irene’s, yes.

    We know they are still together years later, but the big Irish families, total 14 brothers and sisters between the ex-wife and this cheater guy all know he cheated on the cheater woman. So does the young daughter, now 31 years old, who he also triangulated, by telling the cheater girlfriend that the daughter was stealing from his sons, so that the cheater girlfriend would force her out from the house. She went to live with her father, then to school and never returned home. Sickening, isn’t this 100% true story.

    And from what I have learned from Chump Lady as a longtime devotee, because I too, was chumped and needed healing, is that the karma train will always hit. For his ex-wife, it took some years, while the building was going on, my life chain bringing me into destiny, me, an instrument of significant healing for the ex-wife. She learns, that now chumped cheater girlfriend, just ain’t all that special-the cheater guy’s goal, just money, money, from women who he piggybacks, never ever alone. There are many other stories about him, kicking out one woman from a joint tenancy townhouse and moving in the same day, another woman. Suffice to say, this classic narcissist, behavior, a user, liar, cheater, unable to live alone, unable to be responsible for himself, unable to live without kibbles.

    And this too I have learned from Chump Lady and Chump Nation. When the cheaters stay together after now cheating on each other once they are together, they are miserable, but locked into an appearance pact and perhaps a financial situation that they must prove they did not not make a mistake. They must prove that it was not a mistake to hurt many, hurt families, hurt children, because it was all worth it, prove it is tuoo wov. Who do these two think they are fooling? Maybe both are narcissists.

  • I’ll give you the facts on the guys side of things.

    The Other Men do you know what time that Chump Men because they know that at the very least they will get their asses kicked, and at the very most murdered.

    It’s a deterrent to tauntng because that is a direct confrontation with the male chump. In the NFL, a taunting penalty is only 15 yards. The stakes are much higher IRL.

    The other male will definitely bang your wife or girlfriend because their pussies, and they do this behind your back.

    Seven years ago my cousin banged my wife and blew up my family. We have not crossed paths to this day. He scared shitless and should be.

    Btw if my wife attempted to come back with apologies and a gift basket of $1 billion cash, I wouldn’t even consider for a moment taking her back. So that would not be the reason why I would kick my cousins ass. I have zero interest in her, however he severely broke every level of family, and bro code.

    Fuck that dude

    • Sorry for the second paragraph voice misrecognition.

      The OM will not taunt the Chump male because there are ass kicking consequences.

        • almost agreed here… except I would call them all DICKS.
          Pussies are strong AF: can take a thrusting, a licking, a pounding, deliver a baby headfirst and keep it moving…
          DICKS are frail, weak, vunerable, and curl up at the slightest hint of cold water, or even a flick from a pinky.

          OM/OW are dicks.
          x

          • I’d call em all assholes, don’t need any gender denigration here but of the two, dick is more apt. I’d like to see the derogatory ‘pussy’ insult disappear. It’s demeaning to women and complete bullshit for all the reasons stated above.

    • @Rickb89- Yes, I believe you are correct. My STBX screwed his best friend’s wife, then the two of them got (now ex bestie) drunk and tried to bring him into a threesome. All the more to give him ‘agency’ in the matter, I suppose. If he were complicit, he couldn’t complain? Needless to say, it went horribly wrong (I know this because STBX admitted this in a therapy session, smirking right in front of my face). After this, ex bestie threatened to kill STBX, sent several threatening text messages to him, and went as far as bashing in the mailbox in front of our house with a Louisville Slugger. Of course, STBX had frantically called 911 to report the ‘threats’ and was standing in the driveway with our State Police neighbor at the time of the mailbox bashing. No contact between them since, but I’m certain STBX would crawl behind cars and across a highway to avoid HER Husband again. Not that it stopped him from continuing to fuck her for quite a little while, though.

      • Yup, The laws against assault and battery with the potential for jail time and all other kinds of laws are the ONLY things that stop the champ male from delivering the appropriate ass kicking.

        These OM douche bags are protected by the law.

        Morally, I have no qualms whatsoever about an OM getting what’s coming to him.

    • An OM HOworker helped my gay-in-denial ex-husband blow up my marriage, too, and I concur with your assessment that OM nearly always keep the affair a secret from the chump because they fear some type of retribution— as you said, a physical beat down in the case of straight OM, and/or an outing in the case of the gay-in-denial OM in my case, who is still married to a very foolish woman. Total cowards, all of them.

  • A little off topic, but add another chump to chump-nation. My friend texted me today to tell me her husband has been cheating with a married woman at work since before they got married. They’ve only been married a year, and I was at their wedding.

    I swear, he had me fooled as well! He acts like he’s totally in love with her! She’s not the only one who was taken by surprise! WTH is wrong with theses fuckwits!

    • My rule of thumb now ? I need to talk to the person living next door/above/below somebody as a potential tenant. What kind of employee will this person be ? Check in with their office mates or the folks in the cubicles around them. References from their former landlord who doesn’t live on the premises ? Useless. Same for the manager or boss who they brown nose. Some people spend a lot of time managing their public persona rather than actually having good character.

    • My second ex was like this. I had already left a cheater and worked assiduously to fix my picker. Time, therapy, etc. To this day I maintain that second ex gave no signal and raised NO red flags. If the universe hadn’t stepped in to fortuitously out him, I shudder to think how long he might have played me. Real evil can have “silent running.”

  • I kinda pick me danced but then I realized. “Why am I doing all the work chasing him? I am going through chemo and I’m the one bringing him lunch after my treatment? WTF was I thinking?”

    I did come off as crazy during that time to the OW and the flying monkeys. I was on steroids, so from my perspective they are lucky they didn’t get even more crazy. Because Ex was going out drinking, spending $70 in the bar on a Wednesday, I had a tracker put on the car (it was MY car after all) so I could ensure he wasn’t driving out daughter after being at the bar and because he would not talk about divorce I wanted to make sure he was being honest about what he did during our separation. Of course the narrative is that I am a stalker.

    OW, who got pregnant with Ex’s kid 5 months into our separation is is deep denial that she is an OW. He told her we were filed and just figuring out the specifics (something that did not actually happen until 5 months later). She has told me that he now realizes the man he needs to be for his family. Proof of this image management is all over facebook, as they now pose for happy family of four photos with my daughter and post them when they do not have custody (which is only 4 days a month). It’s gross. My guess is that in 5 years or less she’ll know exactly what it’s like to be me , but the difference is that she will deserve it.

  • I didn’t dance. Instead, I made an appointment with a lawyer without telling CheaterX. Then I discovered that if I divorced him at that moment, I’d be really poor, so I spent some time lining up ducks.

    Thank goodness he was so wrapped up in trying to find a time to fuck Schmoopie that he was uninterested in sex with me. Did I mention his low libido?

    Anyway, after a more prolonged divorce than our estate merited, I moved out of the marital home and into my own place. Schmoopie, who’d been having financial difficulties, moved into the marital home the day after I moved out.

    But did they live happily ever after?

    Nope! They divorced within a year. CheaterX, with whom I’ve been in No Contact since moving out, has reached out to me a couple of times with Sad Sausage messages. Apparently, once I moved out and Schmoopie moved in, she started accusing CheaterX of cheating on her–with me!

    So, all this is to say that when CL advises Chumps, “So what if Hortense wins? Now she gets to triangle (rectangle, dodecahedron) all over again with someone else. Let her have the turd. LET HER WIN,” she’s getting at the truth. Especially the sociopathic APs LOVE the drama of the Pick-Me Dance! It feeds them Oh So Many Kibbles!

    Me? I figured that I’d won. By not playing, I let CheaterX have a woman who likes to sleep with other people’s husbands (and yes, she was cheating on him with a married man). I also let Schmoopie have a man who thought it was okay to cheat.

    That left me completely free. And gosh do I like that freedom!

  • I read this and I think of Batman

    You ever danced with the devil in the pale of the moonlight?

    I always ask because I just like the sound of it!

  • This is excellent as usual 200% my ex husband he loved triangulation. When I FINALLY woke up and realized I got out! It took me over a year to see reality even with my glasses on. He brought his affair partner right through the Family home and told me I had to be FAIR and SHARE as she was homeless. Yes stupid me got sucked in and played the pick me dance for about two weeks. Then he came to me one day and I know he was actually honest, he was NOT protecting himself. She said she was CLEAN! Omg a drug addict, I ran for the first lawyer I could find!

  • I did the Pick Me Dance for a while. Then I let my sparkly replacement part have what she wanted, which is the life she thought I had. She won my x, my home, the nice vacations I’d planned (he just reused the old itineraries with her). I expect she also won all of the many responsibilities that had been delegated to me over the years, including the responsibility for ensuring the Fuckwit’s happiness at all times. Within two years of our divorce being final, she regretted the whole thing, and divorced his lying, cheating narc ass. At least she was amply forewarned that he was lousy marriage material.

  • I did not want the OW to become my kids stepmother. That is why I worked to end the affair. I could not stand the idea of that immoral freak near my kids. I outed her to her family with this task in mind. To break them up. For the sake of my kids. I went to MC for the same reason basically. To make him end it with her.

  • The ugly skank OW was positively giddy with delight that she won the pick me dance and the sparkly turd. Friends told me how coy she acted over it all. I would pay money to see him dump her fat ugly ass. I don’t care who he ends up with as long as it’s not her. Not very Meh and I never will be on that one. I do, however, know so much more than she does about things and would love to rub her nose in it and maybe I will someday. She, too, is waiting for the Karma bus to show up in her cul-de-sac. I’m hoping she gets dementia like her mother because XH has no patience for illness (except his own) and will kick her to the curb. I hate her guts and her liver. I don’t like him either but she knew he was a married man when she sunk her talons into him. May they both ride that bus together.

  • I danced the first time when kids were 2 & 4 years old, we had just built our dream home, and he was ‘unhappy’. I didn’t know at the time Dr. Cheaterpants thought he was happy with nurse nicknamed ‘crazy’ in the ICU where he worked. After the house sold, the kids and I moved into our smaller home, divorce was almost final, and I was moving on with my life, cheater came begging back. Ugh, if only I could go talk some sense into myself. I thought it was a midlife crisis even though we were in our early 30’s. The schmoopie angle was revealed well after wreckonciliation. I thought it was too much stress as it’s hard having small kids and I worked full time. Looking back, I did all the adulting and he did all the funning. There wasn’t much more to give except to become more of a doormat.

    When I recognized the same signs again 12 years later, our iClouds were joined and I saw the predator in action. Pursuing DD14’s 20-something asst sports coach in our kids’ Catholic High School. I didn’t dance once. I didn’t swallow a bite of shit sandwich. I thought ‘she’s a lucky, lucky girl’.

    I got the house, my car, ‘liberal’ visitation as he said the kids were old enough to decide where they wanted to spend time (he tried back tracking on that as in true narc form, he didn’t think they wouldn’t want to spend time with him and young ho schmoopie). I struck quick while he was pursuing his twu wuvs.

    I ignore his emails and texts. I don’t respond when he shows up in front of my house (both kids drive now and have cars that my sister gave them). He was supposed to pay car insurance for kids in our divorce agreement but just stopped paying DS18’s as soon as he graduated high school. Is this aimed at trying to provoke me? Maybe. It just makes him look like a bigger ass to the kids.

    Yep, don’t dance. Get those ducks lined up. I took my pictures and keepsakes to my mom’s house for safe storage. I ‘helped’ him load up his things as he was giddy leaving the house and he thanked me. Moron, I just wanted to send stuff with him I didn’t want. I kept everything else. I guess I win!

  • I did a 4 year pick me dance after he claimed the affair with our friend was over.. cue the vomit inducing Re-marriage in Central Park on the day of our 30th wedding anniversary. What did it get me? 500k in total theft of our retirement fund by my husband, further cheating—sleeping with ow#2(that I knew of) in my bed at my home, my bed at our cottage and my bed at our house in Florida..dog marking his territory.. verbal emotional, mental sexual and physical abuse… think scorched earth. Finally he left for second ow and continued scorched earth and smear campaign as well as continuing to steal my belongings including my jewelry and stalking me while living with her. Cue CPtsd, anxiety, depression, I couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep, horrific trauma. Don’t do it, the trash took itself out please leave it at the curb.

  • This reminds me of my dentist when I was a teenager — he was a high profile orthodontist who was boinking his hygienist for years while his oblivious wife sat at home. He even carried on the affair with his grown son working there as a dentist too. My mother used to point out the infidelity to me as (I think)an early life lesson in how bold these fuckwits can be.

    Fast forward and the oblivious wife dies, and dentist marries hygienist. She was easily 35 years younger than him. So he dies and she moves to my hometown and starts moving in on someone else’s husband. Complete coincidence, but that “someone else” was a friend of mine from the city who had also retired to my hometown. When the story came out, I called her (my friend)and told her the back story on this woman. She immediately confronted her, told her she knew the complete history of her boinking the dentist for years.

    Whore hygienist ended up packing up and moving on. Friend and husband still together. I love driving the karma bus.

    • Your dentist was pretty much my grandfather. He ended up marrying his secretary a few years after his first wife (my grandmother) died under potentially very suspicious circumstances at their Palm Springs vacation home. My Dad somehow came upon decades of letters between the two that showed the secretary was a lot more than that, and was monitoring the wife (his mom) for years so as to report on her “wellbeing” to her boss (his dad) when he was out of town on business. Family lore is that my grandmother killed herself, but the Catholic Church accepted a heart attack as the cause so she could be buried in the church. Yup. A heart attack at 51 years of age after bearing four children for a cheater.

  • I wish I had every minute back that I spent on obsessing about MOW. It seems insane to me now that I cared whether she and Jackass stayed together.

    Leave a cheater. Stop thinking about the cheater and the AP. Gain a life.

  • Wish I had found this site and Chump Lady’s book before I pick-me danced my ass off! So humiliating….

    Cheater ex and formerly married two-time cheating howorker are now married. My kids tell me ex is hoping that “one day we can all be friends” and do holidays, special events, etc., together. Yeah…. that’s never happenin’. I know it’s all kinds of wrong, but I really can’t stand that my kids maintain a relationship with him (and her). Lately, I’ve been trying really hard to accept their relationship with him by telling myself that if my kids are happy, I’m happy for them. I can’t control who they love.

    • Mommamarsh I am so glad I read your comment! I am not as far down the rise as you, but this is how I feel about my kids still liking my stbx. I want them to hate him for what he’s done to us. I want them to not want a relationship with him. I have been really beating myself up about feeling this way because we’re supposed to be all about how the kids feel. I know I shouldn’t project my pain and hatred into them but it’s so hard. It really sucks that they even give him the time of day.

      • I get it, Distraught! It feels so unjust….ex shatters all bounds of decency and still lands on his feet without suffering any real consequences. My ex was a serial cheater during our entire 25+ year-marriage, he married howorker without ever telling his kids they were to be married (I had to tell them after a friend told me, thinking I knew), and he blamed me when they turned away from him for a period of time immediately after everything blew up. He so doesn’t deserve their love or respect. But lately I am recognizing that this is one more thing I have to let go – just like the multitude of other things I had to let go – for my own sanity and well being. You are right, we shouldn’t project our pain and anger onto our kids. Believe me, they know who is the honorable person and who isn’t. Rest in that knowledge! (((((Hugs)))))

  • I danced for only a couple weeks, after D-Day which was simultaneous with GTFO day. Yes, I kicked him out that night after asking him point blank to choose me or her and he chose her. He was surprised that I kicked him out! He was surprised eight months later when after stumbling on emails revealing a prior affair, I got a lawyer and forced him off the deed to our house (took two years; we weren’t married but were both on the deed). He briefly tried to manipulate me into being his Plan B (“are you absolutely sure this is what you want?!” he said, along with “things are volatile with her! I don’t 100% trust her!” LOLOL. Priceless.

    It was 5 years ago and I’m 95% Meh but sometimes when I think back on it I do get pissed that OW stonewalled me when I wrote to her chumpily asking to just tell me what was going on. I’m 100% NC with him for the past 3 years, however, third parties have told me that he and OW “are no longer a couple” though he still lives in her house “because he can’t afford a place of his own.” I bought him out for .04% of the value of the house… he’d demanded 87%. He paid for less than 5% over 18 years, of all our household expenses including he mortgage and I paid for 100% of the mortgage and home improvements.

    And to think on D-Day night, I actually got down on my knees and begged him not to “leave me”. He told me that I should leave and he would help me find an apartment and that OW was going to come and live in our (my) house after I moved out! Over my dead body. Joke’s on her, her twu wuv by now has likely revealed his permanent underemployed, parasitic nature, his porn and teen porn hobbies, his twisted bdsm tendencies, his pompous ego, and generally what a loser he is. Big victory there for her. NOT.

  • I should have left the asshat when I was doing the pick-me polka with OW#1. Fairly early after DDay I asked him point blank if he was in love with her and he couldn’t speak, he just stared at me and couldn’t even find the gumption to even just lie for cake. He was a blank.

    This was at year 19 of our marriage as high school sweethearts and first lovers. Putting each other through college. Having 2 spectacular daughters who at the time of OW#1 were early teenagers. Having nearly lost one child to pneumonia at age 6 (full respiratory arrest and a life flight helicopter ride included in that horror). Having built our lives and wealth for all that time, to have an objectively wonderful family that so many wish for. I was completely in love with him and had treated him that way: with respect, great sex, and zero nagging wife harpy behaviors. Ever.

    And I got the blank stare because he really didn’t know the answer. How did I compare to Miss Cargo Pants? How was our long and unique history when compared to his recent bonding with the bohemian tofu eating bitch? You know, the one that he had talked about to me a whole bunch with his case of mention-itis, saying how she was not very good at her job and was an emotional basket case. Where the hell was she when I was birthing those 2 daughters?

    Oh, right, the dumbass twat was still in junior high while we were buying our first home and doing the nursery for our baby. She was getting knocked up out of wedlock by a much older guy when our youngest was trying to die from pneumonia.

    But my asshat was just not sure how I compared to that miserable twat.

    Yup, should have kicked the fucker out that very minute. He has no clue how to love all the way and commit to decisions in his life. Zero.

    Th consolation prize is that he is absolutely suffering the same anxiety and doubt about the recent choice he made to go live in Europe permanently to be with the latest 25YO OW#2. He is agonizing about it every damn day I am sure, and I do know him better than anyone else. I hope his brain rots from the pain of his terrible decisions.

  • The ex’s whore in my case was one fucked up piece of work. I don’t think she was really actually interested in the ex, at all, but saw it as a chance to get some free ego kibbles. They knew each other waaaayyy before he met me, so if they didn’t have a relationship when they were free to, why wait till he married and had a child?

    This skank was so thrilled over her Superiority to me. That doesn’t even make sense, since according to her, I’m so pathetic (lazy, old, fat, etc). Like CL says, don’t try to untangle that skein, cause it’s very fucked up…

  • I refused to engage. She wants him – she can have him. Chances are pretty good she’ll have that battle with the next woman he cheats with.
    It seems that as soon as wifey files for divorce and moves out with the kids, dog, and “just a few things for the kids” (if she has place to go or finances to leave), he will panic in the lonely house and beg for them to come home, OW completely forgotten.
    This is the point if you want to make him hurt you can (always through an attorney) tell him he can’t see the kids if the OW (or ANY OW) is around – at least until divorce is final, maybe after if she really is a tacky slut.
    If you can hit him where it financially hurts in an actual divorce, OW often may decide she doesn’t like a more ‘frugal’ version of her once free spending ‘boyfriend’.
    And if he moves in with her and she gets to pick his dirty clothes off the floor, have him ask “what’s for dinner” every day at 7 pm, spend all day Sunday on the couch warching football, and find out his idea of a weekend getaway is a hotrod car show in Cleveland…or Seaworld with 3 kids under 8… she’ll wonder what she ever saw to fight for.
    I enjoy watching fantasies get crushed and dreams die. But then again, I can be evil.

  • I know I’m a little late on this one, but I’m pretty sure my ex (a serial cheater) fit this mold, but to the woman on the other side. I’m very sketchy on details (it’s not something I wanted to know about), but I think she enjoyed winning the “pick-me” dance over her AP’s wives (they were all married). It gave her a feeling of superiority: “See, I’m a better woman than you, Mrs. Boring, that’s what your husband would rather be with ME.”

  • Some other chump is doing the eternal pickme dance now. I never danced after the 2nd D-Day. Just packed up and left, tried to work on it, couldn’t move past it, got a lawyer and was divorced 4 months later. I call it the eternal pick me dance because I felt like I spent the whole marriage trying to be the correct version of myself for him. One version of the dance always came before his birthday. His birthday is so special and uber important that he always plans to spend it out of the country in the Caribbean every year. So before this birthday vacation we would have to work on our beach bodies. This year it’s the new girlfriends turn to get her beach body ready. Where is one of the places that the 2 of them chose to do this Beach Body Bongo? At my daughters track while she was having track practice with her track team. The 2 of them were there on the track running sprints like 2 running fools — then left the practice before practice was over. You can’t make this shit up! So, Happy Belated Birthday, Turd Bucket.

    • @Rachel’sDone. Holy Crap!! I’m stunned he could be such an insensitive asshole. What happens to men’s brains when they divorce and get a girlfriend? It’s like an 18 yr old takes over their brain.
      I know my daughter would have been unable to stop herself from pointing him out and telling the entire track team what an incredible douche he was. I’m sure she would have taunted him and gf and gotten her friends to join in as well.
      She has a temper and no filter.
      I hope your daughter told him what an asshat she thought he was at some time.

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