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UBT: Chump Lady’s ‘attitude’

attitudeDear Chump Lady,

Here’s a gem. I told my ex to read your blog.

“You might want to know that CL’s abusive condescending and completely unempathetic attitude towards me (who actually wants to be a good person) has been very hurtful. I want to be good but she (and I guess you) just want to focus on how awful I am. And sorry for the drama. I still hate CL though. Because she HATES and DESPISES me and people like me. Well I don’t need her crap… got enough self loathing without her piling it on with the WAY she says it. Bitch that she is.”

Ella

Dear Ella,

What response were you expecting when you told your cheating ex to read a blog with the tagline “Leave a cheater, gain a life”?

Warm fuzzies? Insight? For him to appear before you as a sobbing, puddle of snot and regret? I’m so sorry, Ella! I never knew the depths of my douchebaggery until I read this blogger! You’re so utterly correct. I suck! 

Brush up on that no contact thing. Don’t poke the afflicted. The watchword here is MEH.

I’m about to poke the afflicted and UBT this thing, so do as I say and not as I do. But as you asked and all.

“You might want to know that CL’s abusive condescending and completely unempathetic attitude towards me

Clearly, the mindfuck is firmly set to the Self-Pity Channel. With a little DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender) thrown in for good measure.

The infidelity support site is “abusive” (not the cheater). Condescending (not the cheater, who is offhandedly “sorry for the drama,” but can we get back to what a BITCH Chump Lady is?!)

Unempathetic isn’t even a word. But if you mean that the Universal Bullshit Translator lacks sympathy for cheaters’ bullshit, you’d be right.

(who actually wants to be a good person) has been very hurtful.

What matters here are my hurt feelings! Not my failure to be a good person. Wanting to be a good person is what’s important. I actually want to be an Olympic cross-country skier. It doesn’t matter that I sit on the sofa in stretchy pants and eat the last of the gingerbread cookies and am winded by the feeblest of exertions — what MATTERS is my desire to be an Olympic cross-country skier! Your observation that withered prune pits have more lung capacity than I do was very hurtful.

I want to be good but she (and I guess you) just want to focus on how awful I am.

I’m sorry. We were blinded by your awfulness.

And sorry for the drama.

Just an aside. Sorry! Let’s just file my treachery, betrayal, and wantonly risking your sexual health under “drama.” The drama. Not my drama. Just drama. Drama happens. Sorry!

I still hate CL though. Because she HATES and DESPISES me and people like me.

She hated me first! 

Actually, Chump Lady doesn’t hate you. She just decodes you. Chump Lady feels totally whatever-ish about you personally. You’re rather amusing material and without your bullshit she wouldn’t have much of a blog, so thank you.

Well I don’t need her crap…

I’m sure you generate quite enough crap on your own without Chump Lady’s help.

got enough self-loathing without her piling it on with the WAY she says it.

The disgust! The self recriminations! How can you live under the crushing burden of remorse that is “sorry for the drama”?

Bitch that she is.”

Air kisses to you too. Hope you trip and fall into a pile of self-loathing.

This UBT ran previously. Chump Lady needed upbraiding again. 

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Must admit I was tempted to send a link to CL to my cheating lying thieving pile of shit.

    Why ? Oh, because I hoped it might make the fucker realize what a steaming pile of dogshit he and his rat faced whore are.

    Glad I didn’t bother, as CL does her spot on UBT, you realize nothing, absolutely nothing, makes these fuckers take a critical look at themselves, it’s either self-pity or rage. Scumbags.

    I love CL’s UBT’s !

    • As always UBT is spot on. It’s not what they did but our reaction to it that’s the problem. What a mind game they play while they destroy everything around them because they can.

      Trust they suck and you’ll never be disappointed again! And as AOK always says – no contact no contact no contact!

      • Agreed, why don’t we get the charm channel? I barely get a flicker once every few months. I want my money back because I am more than paying for all three!!!

    • Please don’t send cheaters here. Many Chumps depend on their anonymity and don’t want to be stalked. It’s a safe plus and we don’t need cheaters and concern trolls.

        • I second that. Besides…do you really believe that your cheater is going to read CL and finally…AT LAST….get it ??!! Um, no. This isn’t a place for cheaters. This is a place to heal from cheating cheaters. Fuck them. They can start their own blog.

          • CHUMPTOPIA ,

            guess what i found ? a cheaters “support page” talk about your sick fucks , men and women are on this page , its a numbered list of “how to cheat and get away with it ” addressed to the guy , but works both ways . oh and be sure to read the comments after the post ( for additional disgust) ……….https://www.reddit.com/r/adultery/comments/87hf2o/teaching_the_new_guy_how_to_fish/?st=jfaoavgr&sh=20396696 …and if you tap the r/adultery at the top of the page you can get access to 100s of pages cheater talk .

            • Ick. Cheating cheaters and the people they cheat on and with. Sounds like the devil’s den to me. Thanks for the link but I don’t think I could stomach reading any of their bullshit.

            • Repulsed and breathing…omg went and read on that site for 10 minutes. I so wanted to interject ‘can’t wait until your SO busts your slimey ass, and they will someday, and take ALL your shit.’

            • I haven’t commented much lately as I fell and broke my rotator cuff and humerus bone and it’s difficult for me to type. I just couldn’t hold back after reading that there’s an actual Cheater support site.
              This only proves what CN has said many times and is what all Chumps eventually learn, Cheating has nothing to do with what we as Chumps have done, said, or whatever ridicules excuse a Cheater can come up with.
              Cheating has everything to do with their character, moral fiber and who they are as human beings.

      • Good point, LAJ, my desire to rub the fucktard’s nose in his vileness would not only have been an utter waste if time, but would also violate the place we all need, without the self-pitying crap from cheaters and their whores.

        After all, if the fuckers were actually capable of self examination, they’d never have done what they did, and then lied and gaslighted, blame shifted.

        My desire to “make the bastard see!!” was of short duration, I re-read Tracy’s book, several archive posts, and realized you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear; or to put it another way, you can’t polish a turd.

        But it does go to show these freaks/shits just aren’t wired right – I bet I speak for CN in that if we had done anything so remotely egregious, and had been given a link to a site that unpacked that, and showed how wrong it was, we’d have been all over it, looking to see what we’d done wrong, agonizing over our shitty behaviour, and trying to put it right.

        Self pitying entitled shitbags ? Nah. Fuck ’em.

    • I thought about it too, but realized I didn’t want to give him access to my ‘safe place’. Good thing too. The things I have said about that man in these forums over the years would have driven him crazy…and made my life crazier in consequence!

  • One of my cheater’s blame shifting reasons he left was “you won’t quit reading Chump Lady.” Damn straight. You don’t act very sorry, either, asshat.

    • 2o4d (so hoping stbx) npd said that my therapist was “brain-washing me”!

      Was furious that I continued to see her, said therapists aren’t worth the money, they never help.

      That is SO TRUE for someone like HIM, but me?

      I’m getting better day after day! HA!

    • Yes. Because you were certainly reading an infidelity support blog while everything was A-OK in your marriage. I hate the post facto justifications.

      Here’s a paraphrase of my X’s: “He-chump, you stopping the pick-me dance 6+ months into the affair and going NC are the reasons I had the affair.”

      (in my best Terminator voice) Fuck you, asshole.

  • It seems a’ll these cheating scumbags have issues with facing the truth about themselves. When I used to try to get the reason why my STBX cheated with my cousin. All I got was that I did not want to go party every weekend. I did not give him enough attention. He thought I did not love him anyway. Aww poor baby wifey didn’t powder his behind enough. Forced him to get his ass powered by his wife’s cousin.
    When I asked him what she had that I didn’t have. His response was she liked to have fun. Yup, throw away a 34 year marriage for a skank that wants to have fun.

      • After numerous affairs, lying, f*ing up our money, it was, “You just can’t be the wife I need you to be.” Didn’t mention that he was banging his bosses’ wife at the time and she was 20 years younger.
        Now has dumped her because he has suddenly become a biker dude and wanted someone who helped play out that image. Not sure what’s next. An astronaut? An importer/exporter? Whatever he turns into, I will never be the wife he needs to be. Biggest. Compliment. Ever.

    • Well, shit, not all of us want to dissociate into the land of escapism (aka Land of Unicorns and Skittle Farts) to relive fantasies of shitty wet dreams while the rest of us live in reality like actual decent adults.

      That ‘fun’ he’s looking for ain’t sustainable, but then again, what would I know?

  • Interesting how this specimen speaks of himself n 3rd person.
    “me and people like me” – or that he draws Aline between good people and those like him

  • XW: “I did a bad thing, but I’m not a bad person” (sniffles for added affect)

    Cheaters are scammers. What degree of weirdo tornado they have going on inside their brain? I don’t know. What I now know is you have to take care of yourself and heal your own wounds instead of trying to fix/help the cheater and their “struggles” of wandering into strangers’ groins.

    • I got that, too. The whole, “When Good People Cheat” malarkey. Guess what? Good people don’t cheat. We are the sum of our actions, good or bad. Cheating is a bad (TERRIBLE) action, so you’re a bad person.

      It’s like a great white shark devouring a swimmer while pondering whistfully, “My essential self is a cuddly corgi.” Pffft.

      • Sharks get a pretty bad rap as it is so it’s really not fair to compare them to cheaters! Sharks are “giant eating machines; a miracle of evolution. All they do is eat, swim and make little sharks.” It might be from Jaws but it’s true; eating is what they do. They don’t know any better and they probably don’t care how we view their essential self.

        Also, swimmers are not their food of choice. Though true that sharks are scavengers and swimmers will do in a pinch; they generally prefer seals. 🙂

    • ““I did a bad thing, but I’m not a bad person”

      My god I used to get this line all the time! The problem was really the way I interpreted his behavior; the actual behavior, well everyone makes mistakes (over and over and over again). He had me convinced for years that my perception of his repeated behavior was an indication of MY dysfunction, not his. He’s really good at shifting the blame by insinuating if someone has a difference of opinion than his, well.. “they must be crazy!”

      Bad person, bad character, bad behavior… semantics is what’s relevant here… the actual behavior… well that’s not important, let’s talk about the chumps perceived flaws instead!

      • He also said the same about the OW. She doesn’t have custody of hwr tjowree kids, hasn’t been paying child support, has a drinking problem, and had a peace bond issued against her for a year after she assaulted her husband in front of her children. But hey, “She’s a good person who’s just made some poor decisions in her life. The way she sometimes presents herself to the world is not really what she’s like.”

    • I have said this many times before, but can they not apply logic to anything? If doing bad things does not make you a bad person, what the hell does? What other criteria could one use for the assessment of “badness?” Seriously! I mean do “bad people” only become “bad” if they pass a state board exam in evil fuckery? Do they have to be inducted into a secret society of puppy kickers? Maybe, it’s genetic and they all can be identified by their secret third nipple located on their left buttock. Yes, Virginia their are evil sons of bitches. You can tell who they are by the evil shit they keep doing.

      • ‘I’m a good person who did a bad thing.” Nope, you’re a bad person BECAUSE you did a bad thing!

        Thanks Jojobee! Your line of thinking helps me untangle thoughts I struggle with in trying to figure out if he’s a good person who does some bad things or just a bad person. Judge by actions. His actions loudly scream – BAD PERSON!!!

        • Rosethorns, trust that his a bad person that tried to act like a good person. I can honestly say that the only time my X was truly giving was in the bed. He was a giving lover but not a giving person. I always felt that his “good actions” had a string attached or only happened because I “nagged” enough that he would cook once or twice and then go weeks before he would cook again. He doesn’t know how to be a good person – I truly believe that he doesn’t have the tools and struggles. In that respect, I feel sorry for him but not enough to be a doormat.

          • My ex started out as a generous lover, although he became more and more selfish with time.

            I finally figured out that the initial generosity was IMAGE MANGEMENT. He LOVED the ego kibbles of being, and being seen as, a good lover. He wasn’t taking pleasure in my pleasure, as I did in his. He was taking pleasure in being the guy who could do that.

            Plus, limerence, of course! While infatuated, everything is great. But since the narcs don’t attach, connect, care, once the limerence calms down (as it always does!), there is nothing left.

        • No problem Rosethorns! The capacity for self delusion astounds me with these people. And, they think if they say something often enough that that act alone will make it true. If I say I’m a good person then that means you have to believe I’m a good person. Uuuuh NO. It doesn’t. Whatever a cheater says is meaningless because we know them to be liars. You can put your boots in the oven, but that doesn’t make them biscuits. Facts are facts. Repeated bad actions= bad person. It really is that easy. Oh and that next to last sentence should be “there” instead of “there.” I need an edit key because I usually comment quickly when something gets me wound up.

          • Shoot. I screwed up my own correction! I may mess up “their” and “there”–but I am pretty sure I am right about reality versus cheater fantasy.

            • s’kay JoJobee – that’s why most of don’t correct since we all make typos when thinking fast. Usually we can figure it out and, often, the correction confuses me so I go back and look at the original post. lol. I know, I used to be a stickler for grammar too.

              • Ex noted text typos as one of his grievances against me. One in a long list. Unless I am concerned that something will be misunderstood, I make a point of not correcting my typos here because I am trying to get over that feeling of “I screwed up again and I need to correct it before somebody thinks I am an idiot”. I figure this crowd will be more forgiving than ex and maybe I no longer have to stress about typos.

      • My ex still leans heavily on this, in his fury that the kids won’t see him. He has some story of a genocidal warlord whose daughter applied to the courts to be able to visit him in jail. See! Ex isn’t as bad as THAT! So the kids should totally think he’s great! And now he’s got his mother all in a tizzy, telling the kids ‘you’re treating him like he’s a murderer! He’s not a murderer!’. Well, true, he’s not. But last I checked, WE get to decide who WE want to associate or not, by our own standards. And by my kids’ standards, their dad is a selfish, critical, manipulative asshole. And that suffices!

      • “Seriously! I mean do “bad people” only become “bad” if they pass a state board exam in evil fuckery?

        I just spit out my La Croix laughing at that line. Nora Ephron couldn’t have said it better.

      • I think that’s the worst part Suze. It has nothing to do with if they are prettier or younger or older or fatter or whatever. It’s the abusive blame-shifting and lying and conspiring that makes them so disgusting.

    • Re: “I did a bad thing but I’m not a bad person”: I struggle with this. I don’t think any of us would like to be eternally judged by the world on the basis of the worst thing we’d ever done to anybody.

      So I’ve made my peace with it like this: The rest of the world can judge her on the totality of her actions. If other people want to treat the adultery and abandonment as just one facet of her character, they’re allowed to do so: she didn’t destroy their or their children’s lives. But *I* am justified in evaluating her character based on the worst thing she’s done to *me*. And based on that, she is a self-centered, untrustworthy liar with all the empathy of a half brick. She is a bad person *to me* and that’s enough; that other people might judge differently doesn’t change that.

      • Excellent point IG! I would add that RECOGNIZING that it was a bad thing, CEASING, and making amends would go a long way towards establishing the totality of their character. And also, the ones that see the totality most likely don’t know, or want to know, the devastation to your life and soul. It’s a lot easier and cleaner to not examine to closely the fall out

      • No question they are bad people. I do not struggle with this at all. It helps that in addition to cheating, both my XWs demonstrated extreme narcissism in many other areas. They were very abusive people, extremely mean at times. I could give specifics but it would take forever.
        And, I am no longer upset that a certain type of person cannot see them for who they are. Both have sought out people as friends who will support them and endorse what they did. Both are decent looking ( although not in my league 🙂 ) and have no problem finding admirers. You need to get close to narcs to se behind the mask.
        At some point, after the initial anger wore down, I became aware that without my XWs in my life, I am much happier and a much better person, as I am not dealing with constant ambient abuse. I am not dealing with someone on a daily basis who expects me to take responsibility for her happiness and who rages in some form or another if I cannot provide it.
        I would have died long ago, I believe, if I had more long term exposure to the type of abuse one is faced with in a relationship with a cluster b, like a narc.
        So, in retrospect , the cheating was a lifesaver, as it got me off my ass and out of an abusive marriage each time.
        I doubt any of these cheaters ultimately change. Their character is already well entrenched by adulthood. Doesn’t that sound unevolved and judgmental? But, it is true. A normal adult could not do this long term as they do.

        • Yup, because these cheaters never have a single “worst thing they’ve ever done.” The cheating is not ever singular. Even if they only physically fucked the person once, they made at least a dozen decisions leading up to it that they knew were wrong and deceptive. Then they did the deed and then they made a conscious decision to lie to you about it. Now, that is just the cheating. But, you can’t cheat without deception/lying and I have never once met a dyed in the wool liar that only lied in one area of their life, or, only lied/decieved one person in their life. Cheater shittiness is like an iceberg–for every 10% you see there is 90% of shittiness still hidden below the water.

    • “I did a bad thing, but I’m not a bad person” got it word by word from my skank.
      “You think I’m the most evil person.”

      My reply:

      No, you are just a low life liar and a cheater.

  • I think a chump might share this type of information as an attempt to show their cheater that other people also think the cheater”s choices and character suck. Cheaters are usually so good at minimizing and making the chump feel stupid and crazy. Of course, cheaters can’t handle actually thinking that all normal people think they suck so instead normal people are just mean bitches/assholes out to cause drama.

    • That’s why @Svneum one of the cheater clichés is to create a brand new group of ‘friends’ who, to use my STBXW’s own words, “won’t judge me”

      In my STBXW’s case, this new circle is largely made up of other cheaters and/or divorcées

      • A bunch of trade down friends to go with the trade down relationship. Mine started a new job the last year and a half year and a half of our marriage. He was already in his affair with current OW. He deliberately kept me from meeting anyone at the the new job. Once we ran into someone at our children’s school function, and he was so uncomfortable. He refused to say I was his wife so I did.

        He now has a whole new seen with the people at work. Plays baseball with them – no longer with his brother’s league which he has the last seven years. I’ve heard that she’s come out games and there have been some “dinner parties”. But, I’ve also heard that people at his work refer to her as the “marriage-breaker,” so he’s not garnering the respect doe this relationship that he thinks he has. The truth comes out no matter where you go.

  • Mine can’t handle that people in our area gossip about what he did. He thinks I’m going around telling everyone I meet what he did. It’s not a topic I like to bring up, but if people ask I’m sure as hell going to tell them the truth.

    He sent this gem today after I said I had no issue with the OW coming to my daughter’s soccer game. The other parents were wondering if she would show up.

    “Everyone has their own problems and challenges, so much so that they do not give a damn about yours or ours you are just so self centered and self absorbed you actually think people have a vested interest in what the hell your ex husband is up to. No one around this town knows or cares enough to give me a second thought. ”

    Yes, the woman who stayed faithful and constantly put your needs first while I was going through cancer is self absorbed. Puh-lease.

    People love gossip. If people ask me what happened, I have nothing to hide. He doesn’t talk about it because he can’t speak one ounce of truth without looking like a douchebag.

  • There’s a difference between wanting and being a good person, obviously cheaters want you to believe their crap, they probably believe it themselves. My favourite cliché is actions speak louder than words, cheaters like addicts have excuses for everything.

  • I’m surprised he didn’t throw in a mention of limerence. All the Sparkledicks and Sparkletwats cite limerence. Like it’s some sort of ‘get out of fidelity free’ card.

    • I just looked up “limerence.” I think it describes perfectly what was behind my stbx’s numerous “emotional affairs” over the course of our 35 year marriage. He was always infatuated with one or more of our co-workers, and could even manage to create (in his head) a “relationship” with them, although sometimes the women didn’t actually realize this. One step short of stalking crazy, I’d say.

      • I hasten to add that “limerence” does not excuse ACTING on an infatuation! (Also, I’m a lit prof, and “limerence” sounds an awful lot like the outlines of the medieval concept of “courtly love,” in which infatuation with a “lady” inspires the “knight” to feats of chivalrous bravery. Old wine in new bottles.)

      • Citing limerence seems to reference back to switching the victim roles. They are victims of love and affair fog. And the long suffering abuse to their entitlement.

  • To the cheater who is exposed, the world — and anyone in it who does not indulge their entitled fuckwit behavior — is MEAN MEAN MEAN.

    A few days after the blow up, I went through the joint checking account and noticed that KK used house funds (my paycheck) to pay for a midday “breather room” encounter with BDSM Guy. The next morning I told her that I expected to be reimbursed, that I wasn’t about to underwrite her deception.

    She didn’t say a word. After 10 seconds, I said: “What? You have nothing to say to that?”

    She responded with: “Why do you have to be so MEAN?”

    From there, it’s a very short leap to the other cheater complaint: “Why does everyone have to be so JUDGEMENTAL?”

  • I live in a small community and there are several cheaters who left their wives for younger wife appliances. I’ve noticed some commonality between them.

    1) They all strut around and insert themselves into everything. It’s like they don’t want to miss an opportunity to be seen. Attention whores?

    2) They exude “NICE” on the surface, what they do behind closed doors is another matter entirely.

    3) They pepper in condescending feigned concern about their ex spouse. As if they themselves are the greatest thing since sliced bread, shinning pillars of light, but the poor, poor chump, they have a lot of issues to work out, and they only wish them the best (while politely gossiping about them I may add)… but let’s ignore that, because they do it so nicely!

    4)They triangulate with those who have the most social power. The fastest way to spread rumors is by telling the ones who know the most people.

    5) Their victimization is rarely presented from a position of anger; it’s presented in a form that is palatable to others. Usually in the form of sad sausage trying to do the right thing, they don’t understand why chumps are so angry, bitter, vengeful! It must be because they can’t move on.

    6) Context dropping and omissions are like second nature to them. They have an uncanny ability to pepper in just enough truth to make it plausible, but still present a narrative that completely twists the truth.

    • “Context dropping and omissions are like second nature to them. They have an uncanny ability to pepper in just enough truth to make it plausible, but still present a narrative that completely twists the truth.”

      The X is widely known for never being able to tell the whole truth. He always insert extra words or actions to make his story more dramatic. It could be that his exwife said he needed to pick up the kids at 6pm and it would come out as that bitch told me that I had better pick the kids at at 6pm or I could just forget it.

      He would forget that I was there and heard everything. During the divorce, I reminded that I know how he likes to stretch the truth and put in casual lies. I said I can only imagine what you were saying about me (I said it with a laugh).

    • Mine was good at context dropping too. During MC, first visit and a few days after DDay, my ex lamented “I had to do all of the laundry”. He left out that this was only true during his two year stint as SAHD, a position he chose when he quit his high paying job. It also leaves out the fact that before this the nanny and I did about 2/3 of the laundry and he always complained that we didn’t do it right. It also leaves out the fact that I went back to doing about 2/3 of the laundry when he was fast tracked for training for his new career. That is also about the time he started boinking Schmoopie 1.0 and I guess he didn’t have time for the domestic stuff anymore.

  • I love the UBT when it decodes cheaterspeak directed at CL and CN. It’s so sadz when they get their itty bitty fweelings hwurt!

    On the other hand it is such a waste of time to tell a cheater about Chump Lady. It really only violates your safe space and punctuates the old adage that you should never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Cheaters are usually epically unarmed in most departments, especially those that center around human decency and stuff.

    Still fun to read at times so props to this one for giving CL the material!

  • Not long after ex left for ow, I texted him some info about the statistics of an affair partner relationship working out. He shot that down quick and attacked the author’s credentials. Of course he also attacked me by saying how pathetic I was for pointing it out. After all, it was twu wuv (knew each other 1 month before blowing up 6+ lives). They didn’t even make it 2 years before it ended dramatically with an arrest for assault and the whole nine yards!

    • In the secret emails I discovered to the OW. My stbxh was taking allthe principles of marriage counselling that we were in and applying it to the future he was planning with her. He comes right out and says that he knows that the odds of their relationship succeeding is against them, but he knows that is they do a-b-c, they will beat the odds because their love you is real.

  • Yes, my cheater is not receptive to the insight given by CL & CN. He feels picked upon & belittled by the blog & this hurts him because he wants to be a good/better person.
    I’d suggested he read because as Svneum said, I wanted him to see that others think a cheater is the lowest & how evil it is to cheat. How utterly hurtful & damaging it is to be cheated on.
    Too much bitterness & condemnation. He didn’t like it. Made him feel uncomfortable.
    I’d hoped he’d be compelled to elevate & sustain a higher moral standard.

    • Suze, I don’t write for him, I write for you. It’s not a good idea to share your safe space — he already proved he can’t be trusted with your vulnerability, or your anger, or your trust. So it stands to reason that he wouldn’t react well to CN. He should want to “elevate” himself to a higher moral standard. It’s not something you can shame someone into.

      • After a LONG time working through this nightmare, I agree that you will do no good (and possibly do yourself disservice) by leading a Cheater here.

        By the time people get bad enough for us to find solace here, they are generally past the point of no return (they are not the “90 second drunken boink” on a business trip they were too drunk to remember, they are all the way to ” blame wife, raid retirement fund and forget you have children” levels of betrayal).

        I was once optimistic that I could tell him something or show him something and it would help him understand and he would do better. It took a long time for me to learn that his flavor of fucked-up was WAY WAY past that (as I suspect many situations here are).

        • Yup.

          Start-World-War-3-in-order-not-to-be-wrong flavour of fucked up.

          Destroy families, children safety and family assets rather than self reflect, flavour of fucked up.

          Defiance, ‘fuck you’ and ‘You are not the boss of me’ reflex in the face of any devastation is the only level.

          They are not quite human.

        • “ just to show him so he will understand”
          Ugh… I feel you… “ if only…”

          The thing is
          THEY know, they understand, they are aware of the action and hurt their actions may cause…
          They just simply DONT GIVE A SHIT…

          It’s about them. The end.

        • So true. Thank you. I want(ed) him to understand how very deeply he hurt me, that I was wounded on so many levels by his betrayal. It has taken ME a long, long time to understand that he really, really doesn’t care about anybody but himself. My only use to him was as an appliance, and, even then, only as long as I stayed nice and shiny and had all the bells and whistles as the “latest model”.

          Admitting to ANYBODY, including himself, that he did anything wrong is an anathema to him, so the blame-shifting was in absolute high gear, and still remains.

          He knows I visit this sight, has probably come here just enough to know that he doesn’t want to come close again. Anything or anybody that calls him on his bullshit just isn’t safe.

          Poor baby.

      • I totally understand chumps wanting their cheater to look at CN in an attempt to make him finally get it. I would of been very tempted to do the same in the months following Dday, if CN had been around then. I think the suggestion to chumps to not give into the temptation of sharing CN with their cheater is an important one! It is in their best interest not to. As CL says, it’s our safe place. Don’t let your cheater take your one safe place!

        He’s never going to get it, No matter what he’s shown. If he had the capacity for insight & empathy, he wouldn’t of cheated in the first place. Keep CN your safe place!

        • Yes. I barely survived the “show him____ and he will understand and be kind” stage.

          I showed Patsy this… I took 2 photos of him at his retirement party…in one, he was looking at Schmoopie, he then turned his head and looked at me (taking the photo thus holding the camera). When looking at her, he had in his pleasant face. When he looked at me, he had unbridled contempt and hatred for me and it showed.

          At some point I thought he might benefit from seeing the photos and I showed them to him. He looked at the photo with hate/contempt and said “I don’t see what you are talking about, I don’t have an unpleasant look on my face”. Ax murderers have had more pleasant visages mid murder than he had in his face.

  • Mine saw your book laying around during time we were still together and I was dancing somewhat. Must of read some of it. Called himself the “chump” as he had paid for a vacation.

    LOL.

    Whatever you freak of nature blame shifting jerk Ex.

    • I really believe Dr Cheaterpants thinks he’s the victim. His perception is his reality. I knew I had nothing more to give (after finding CL, I had no better dance to do).

      He’s a victim in every aspect of his life story. From work with 3 different bosses over our 20 years together that were either out to get him or didn’t appreciate the awesomeness of him, to his friends and family to his many hobbies and sports.

      I didn’t recognize him as a narc. I didn’t have a label for the overvalued, devalue, discard cycle in all aspects of his life. I didn’t realize I was the enemy to him too.

      • Victimhood is all part of the blame shift. Self pity, poor me, everything is done to them. They have no accountability and take no responsibility.

        • Yes!!

          My cheater has spent his whole life blaming others for everything that ever went wrong in his life. Always someone else’s fault, never his.

          And that’s where they’re not wired right. Normal people, when faced with something they’ve done wrong, immediately begin to evaluate themselves, think, OK, I did a shitty thing, I need to apologise, and make reparation if I can.

          But not these fuckers, they live in a mindset where the only *real* thing is themselves, other people’s needs, expectations , desire for reciprocity, is seen as an outrageous incursion into their entitlement. To these people, they really are the most important person in the universe.

          • ^^^^^This sounds just like mine.

            I’ve started wondering if he never clearly admits any wrong doing or plays the victim because he thinks he will somehow avoid the consequences of his actions by not taking any responsibility? He wont even respond to me when I’m calling him out on the terrible things he does. He just looks at me, lets me talk and then “gives me space”. Then he comes around all loving and happy a few days later like nothing happened. It drives me insane!

          • Mine was saying for a long time “ ok I did all that, but there is no way I have to make up for anything..,. Marriage is 50/50 and you did ur part of wrongful actions, so no need for me to do a thing”
            Mhm 50 /50 – sure…. me not folding the laundry the way he liked vs him screwing up hookers…. me not breeding him at the door, cheerful enough vs him ogling women in public, me- not cleaning dishes at the sink vs him posting dating adds on CL

            Yep 50/50

            • I know you ment greeting him at the door, but breeding him at the door was so much better! I laughed out loud at work. I think it’s funny because in my situation so true. I was expected to be willing and ready whenever it suited him. Ready to breed! Ha!

              • Lol greeting it was 🤪

                Anything to make us laugh will do…. when we were in therapy ( fake-apy) and I was listing with a straight face the actions: cheating dating sites,hookers, abuse, gaslighting, etc. it was interesting to see the face of my therapist….
                I’m listing the most embarrassing encounters, while my husband is sitting next to me, completely fine, no shame guilt or embarrassment…. and the look on her face…. WTF ?
                Up to that point my husband was telling me that there is nothing wrong with his behavior.

  • I once early on shared a CL post with cheater. CL replaced cheating with pushing you down a flight of stairs. As your head bounced off the stairs the cheater watched and laughed. Amazingly she didn’t seem to get the point. It took time but eventually I came to understand one thing, she never loved me. I found that she was really good at deleting certain sexual text but not her peripheral discussions. Turns out I was just that guy who got her out of a bad Home life. So 20 years later, kids grown, she went after her one true love. Lesson I learned is you can’t shame them or change them. They never cared about us. We were just tools for them. I was her bill payer and kid sitter. Nothing more!

    • I was the maid, cook, taxi driver, additional paycheck, bill payer and stepchild babysitter. And none of it mattered in the end.

    • DavidB-
      That they never loved us, or really even cared about us, is probably the hardest thing to accept. It sure seemed like they did, at least early on. Was that all fake? Um well, yeah.

      What I took for love and caring early on was love bombing & just a means to a goal for him. As far as wether he loved me at all or not, It has helped me to realize he’s incapable of real true love. In MC (after Dday1 just 1.5 yrs into marriage) the Pastor/Therapist told me he felt ex was only capable of “Surface Love”. That is spot on & helps me understand it now. At the time I guess I spackeled that. But then, Pastor was also telling me divorce was a sin at the same time. Ugh.

      • It was 20 years of I thought she did! Soon as the kids got old enough, self sufficient, didn’t need her so much. She started her reconnect with ex. Failed miserably so she picked up a 26 year old for ego boost! And probably more! After dday, I found old phone and FB messages. A whole lot of truth was found. I was just a means of getting her out! Even saw her friend ask about my health. I had a possible diagnosis of cancer. She told her friend she was oddly at peace with my possible death. I was not diagnosed with. She worked out of town. Played at the bars and hotels. I got kids up fed them and to school, went to work…. got home and did transport and homework. All the while she would trash my parenting from a bar stool or from someone else’s bed! Nope no one could love someone and do that!

        • It’s amazing how much crap we find out after they leave. I had forgiven my ex after Dday1 (after almost 2 yrs later – with MC). I truly believed he was sorry & thought during those 2 yrs he proved to me he really did love me (& boy did I make him jump through hoops to “prove” it).

          14 years into the marriage & 2 innocent kids brought into the world later, he walked out for an Ow he had only known 1 month, but told me he had known her for 1 year. It turns out that he left for the ow he was blinking for a year but she wouldn’t let him stay with her. He knew I wouldn’t let him back after that so he went to a different ow. Funny how that ow actually thought he left his wife of 14 years (together over 16) for her.

          Less than a week after he left, techno dumbshit me was able to get into his email. He must have been doing something when He was home so I couldn’t see all the dating sites & pornbhe was on as, I had looked at his email a few times in the previous few years & only found stuff about his hobbies. Anyway, numerous dating sites, connections, & correspondence. The massive amount of it surprised me. (It took me awhile to figure out when he had done all this As he was home shortly after work each night. Well, he did it at work & took vacation days, called in sick or told me he had to work the weekend when he didnt to cheat.) From what I found, he got on the first dating site when I was 5 month pregnant with our first child & was in the hospital with both our lives at stake! That was like a dagger stuck in my heart & then twisted!

          The shock of a lifetimevfor me came when I discovered hisvprofiles on bi and gay sites where he identified himself as bi-sexual! I found emails & evidence he had also cheated with men – without using protection! (Apparently, he didn’t use protection with any of his AP’s). I had absolutely no idea he was bi-sexual & never a clue, not did any of my friends or family. He was butch & I actually had used to say, “He’s a Man’s Man kinda guy”. My Gawd, I didn’t mean that literally! When I confronted him about why he never told me BEFORE we were married that he was bi-sexual he said, “I didn’t think you would marry me if you knew”. Though I probably wouldn’t of, I definitely deserves to know! I had bared my sole to him & told him all the good & bad about me. I thought he had done the same. Nope, not even close!

          • The amount of info one finds is staggering! I know for sure she had sex with two. Unprotected of course. And even better, no birth control pills. But there are 5-7 other guys she was in contact with also. I use to try and wrap my head around it all. But that will drive someone crazy. I am blessed I got a clean bill of health 4 years ago! Odds seem to have been against it!

      • I also mistook the love bombing for actual love. I realized a long time ago that I am less like a person to him and more like a piece of furniture he moves around with him.

        I read a book recently that said, “… you, as the unique individual that you are, may never really have existed for the BP/NP (Borderline/Narc) anyways. The BP/NP knows you are alive, but your individual feelings, values, interests and ways of looking at the world have never existed in their conscious awareness”

        This made me cry because I know it’s true. But still so impossible to really comprehend.

  • I’m sure the X would say his cheating was a symptom of a failed marriage. News to me?!?! He just wanted to end the marriage with the narrative that we tried and it just didnt’t work. He wanted us to be friends or at least on friendly terms when it was all over. That was supposed to be my consolation prize – I was supposed to just skip away into the sunset filled with joy that I was free.

    Complete bullshit!!! He cheated and didn’t want me to find out so that he could leave as the good guy and possibly leave the door open for future reconciliation.

    He treated me with total indifference and coldness for the couple of months leading up to the divorce annoucement and I was supposed to accept that he wanted us to end on friendly terms. When I didn’t go along with his plans and found out about cheating because I went “poking and prodding”, things got nasty after that and never go better. I told him that the whole episode was suspicious and yes I went looking for answers because he was giving me nothing to go on. Like I told him, if he had kept his dick in his pants, there would have been nothing to find.

    I found CL the same week as D-Day and I’ve been a daily visitor since. No Contact has really saved me and I highly suggest it (or grey rock) to get past the daily contact with your cheater. It’s hard and it’s painful – there’s no getting around it – the end is worth it though.

    • I heard “we tried for years to improve our relationship. No, WE didn’t. Lying, cheating, failing to communicate, making unilateral decisions, breaking agreements, ignoring my requests, campaigning to destroy, etc. is destructive, not creative. You don’t get to say you were watering the garden when you were pissing on it.

      • OMG – pissing on it. EXACTLY!! We had moved into our house in August 2015 I spent the summer of 2016 and 2017 improving the landscaping for curb appeal. He made some off-handed comment how the landscaping would improve the home value and I wanted to back-hand him across the face. He did nothing to help me – it was my blood, sweat, tears and muscle ache. I still pisses me off just thinking about it.

      • I actually put a note up where ex could see it that said, “The Grass is Greener WHERE YOU WATER IT!!!” (When I suspected he had/was cheating again but didn’t have any real evidence of it). He never said a word about it so I wondered if he had even noticed it.

        About 3 years later, while he was trying to worm his way back following the break-up of he & AP, he actually said, “You were right about the grass being greener where you water it instead of on the other side”. At that point, I was shocked to know he had even seen it, let alone remembered it. Too bad he hadn’t taken it to heart 3 years before when I taped it up. On ya I forgot, he doesn’t have a heart! DUH!

      • Sounds familiar..

        Him: . “ I’m working so hard to improve our relationship ( since 2DD)
        Myself: 😯huh?
        Him: yes, almost 3 years of keeping my promises
        Myself: 🤔I still don’t feel safe with you, you still lie, you probably still cheating on me
        Him: 😰you are so cruel… of course I don’t cheat!!! Yes, I went out of time and rented hotel room- but I was just tired and needed to sleep in quiet environment. We had a fight that evening, remember?
        Myself: 🦗
        Him: and how can u accuse me of cheating?!??
        Myself: how? You were cheating on me for the past 20 years. In hotels. With hookers
        Him: not this time! I swear.
        Myself : 😂goodnight.

    • I have been no contact since before he filed for divorce. Difficult, but necessary. Have NEVER been told about affair, but, instead got three post-its on the day he moved out: “It’s about us”, “Let’s make this work” and “Maybe we can date!” You can just imagine my head spinning. Yes thirty six years and I deserved three post-it notes!

      He used to say that I have the “perfect job”, because I love to find things that people do wrong. Well, post divorce, I sent him the six page of details of all that I had uncovered that he was supposed to be deposed on and ended with “You said I was so great at my job…how did I do this time?”

      • MissBaily-
        Hearing you did all of that & it still didn’t make a difference in the end really helps me. I still wrestle with wondering if I had been able to continue making twice what he did & also doing all the household chores too (worked 50-60 hrs a week to his 40) while he spent money on ridiculous hobby after hobby, would he of still cheated and left had I not of become disabled & unable to do a lot of those things? Assuming that in the end, it most likely wouldn’t of mattered helps me deal with it.

        After all, I was doing all that before & after Dday1 & it didn’t make a difference. Still, I crumbled when he told me after Dday2 (16 years) that he cheated & left because he didn’t want to be with someone with health problems. That is probably why he left as, I couldn’t finance his lifestyle anymore or do all his servent work as good. That’s not why he cheated though. He did That when I was doing all of that. He just stepped the cheating into high gear when he started looking for a replacement/next victim.

        • He cheated because he is morally bankrupt and emotionally immature, as evidenced by cheating and leaving you due to health problems. I want a winner or I want to be on my own….!!!

      • NMF-
        The ending of your letter to ex is hilarious! If he is like mine was, he probably didn’t even read most of it. Even if he did, he wouldn’t of gained any insight or felt any guilt or shame. You should of just sent him 3 post-it notes that said something like, “You think it’s always all about you – you entitled narc!”, “Fuck making this work! I tried that for 36 yrs – you get no more of my life!” and “Knowing what I do now about you, I wouldn’t date or touch you with a 10′ pole — who the he’ll knows what that pea wee thingy of yours has touched! FUCK OFF!” Lol

        I guess you could sum those up to actually fit in 3 post-it notes to “It’s not all about you anymore!”, “Fuck making this work”, & “Fuck you!” Lol

      • NMF – I’m sorry that you didn’t get more. How disrespectful after a 36 year marriage. Cheaters are POS. We need a CL convention where we can raise our fist (or glass of whiskey) to us – that we are able to overcome their fuckwitness and still come out with our integrity intact.

  • My X asshat denies he is a cheater. Through all of it, he denies. His first instinct is to lie.

    With OW#1 (it was JUST emotional after all!) he asked his then-tween aged daughters if it would be OK to move out for a while. Later they realized it was so he could go screw around with the twat. They tried to forgive him but when he finally destroyed their family completely the rage they felt then came storming back and they remembered what a complete prick their father is.

    Having learned to be much more covert and hiding, OW#2 didn’t come into the light until after he abandoned me. But, drunk with his freedom from the wretched wife appliance, the asshat couldn’t help himself and kept texting this European twat in front of our now-adult daughters, sending emojis and giggling in the days after he poofed on me. Our daughters saw her name and all the heart emojis and they couldn’t keep his attention even when he was sitting in the same room with him. He would sit in front of them and giggle and totally ignore them while he played on his phone with the OW. Then he moved to her county this spring permanently. But still, he denies there is ANYTHING going on and doesn’t understand why anyone has a problem with his seeking happiness. Gaslighting. Why havent’ we gotten over it yet? We 3 are such bitches and are just crazy.

    There were others. DD2 confronted him about 6 mo before he poofed about his spending hours talking to some co-worker twat excessively. He denied ANYTHING was going on. More gaslighting.

    It is all so ridiculous. If I sent him to this site he would simply deny he is a cheater and then continue to lie and blameshift and rage. That is if he could manage to pull his dick out of the sparkletwat long enough to look up the site at all.

  • RoseThorns, don’t you know they are sooooo special and they will be the ones to beat the odds! (eye roll)

    • Well after all they’re soul mates, and “God sent them to each other as it was only meant to be”. (puke)

      Of course, he knew they were soul mates after only two weeks online and threw me away after almost 25 years.
      My ex actually didn’t even need my forgiveness because God had already forgiven him.

      • Black souls do match….also people who have big holes where souls should be….he said we were soul mates too…27 years ago….he says that to all of us?…..

        • I think they say it to everyone. I got the twin flame garbage. I actually believed it. Two lost souls searching the cosmos for eachother… and all that jazz….

          Once I embraced the truth. This man does not know how to love and is incapable of see beyond himself, I was able to move forward and start the hard work of inner healing.

      • What he meant was “I consider myself to be God, ergo, I forgive myself.” The utter hubris of him assuming that he knows God’s stance on anything just points out what a grandiose narc he is.

  • The biggest assholes are the ones who don’t realize that consistently choosing bad behavior makes them who they are. You can’t rob me of my life’s work and then say you want an amicable divorce.

  • I wish chumps would stop sharing Chumplady with their cheaters. This is supposed to be a safe place. I, for one, don’t want to open my soul or details of my life to any cheaters. Have some respect chumps, for yourselves and the rest of us. Don’t impose your cheaters on us.

    • If chumps persist in showing their cheaters this site, in the hope that it will help them pull their heads out of their collective butts and improve their behaviors, then let them all learn the hard way that that doesn’t help.

      In the meantime, let me enjoy the delicious schadenfreude of knowing that this site gives cheaters the worst heartburn they have ever had. For people that would like us all to live in their warped little universe of alternative facts, chumplady.com is a cold hard dose of reality delivered like an uppercut to the jaw.

      Boom boom, OUT GO THE LIGHTS!

    • I will admit that I think I threw out Chumplady’s name once in one of my handful of rages after DDay but I don’t think ex ever bothered to follow it up. Thank God! He would have no trouble picking me out and that would likely hurt our surface cordiality that makes it possible to coordinate kids/child support/etc. without it being a fight every time. He is easily offended and this is where I go to vent.

  • I got to hear several iterations of this:
    “…me (who actually wants to be a good person)…”
    What makes somebody a good person is doing good actions. Good people don’t do really bad things. Doing horrible things, but feeling guilty about them, doesn’t make somebody a good person. If a cheater was actually interested in being a good person, he or she wouldn’t cheat, and certainly wouldn’t complain that people were making him or her feel guilty about it.

  • Your ad server is putting up a redirect to one of those “You won an Amazon gift card” hijacks when I visit via Facebook link. Just thought you’d want to know.

  • He said, “I became a person I didn’t like because of our relationship.” And I said, “If you became a person you didn’t like, the responsible party is in the mirror.” Don’t try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig. Or in Al Anon-speak, don’t talk to the problem about the problem. I love the idea of being able to make someone who hurt me understand and feel terrible about it, but it’s not possible. My focus is on keeping myself and my daughter safe, and not handing him any ammo to use against me.

    • “I became a person I didn’t like because of our relationship.“

      My ex said the same line verbatim. Blameshifting bs. We all hope they will take accountability for their behavior, but they won’t. They can’t handle that shame.

      The best we can do is accept that WE didn’t cause their poor behavior. We didn’t make them act in any way. THEY made those choices.

      • I think they don’t do shame. If they are not served well enough every hour of the day, it is someone else’s fault. Like their chump’s. A lack of perfect service means the chump is deficient. There is no reciprocation. Once they put a ring on it, it’s never again going to be anything but an uneven relationship.

  • If him, and all the rest like him, really hated themselves like they claimed, they’d understand why a blog like this exists. But they don’t. They confuse self-loathing with the bad feeling they feel that stems from ‘why can’t I do what I want and still look like a nice guy!’

  • I didn’t read all the comments so sorry if this is a repeat. The leason here is don’t share CL or anything you are doing for self improvement, or escape to a cheater. Thinking that a light bulb will go off in there head and they will finally “get it” is wishing for a unicorn. It won’t happen. Conversely they will use it as a way to put you down more, shame, and/or sabatoge you. If you are in the process of leaving the cheater, I repeat DO NOT TELL THEM YOUR PLANS! Untill all your ducks are in a row and your exit strategy is in place.

  • It sucks for cheater to be hit with the fact that they are not original. They follow a script, they are predictable in a destructive way. No one of quality or morals likes or admires them. They can only exist in a swirl of chaos and drama. It sucks for them to be confronted with their emptiness. The hollow man with tar and black ooze leaking out of all orifices. A walking nothing…………….

    He’s a real nowhere man
    Sitting in his nowhere land
    Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

  • I started to get free the moment I finally decided that “making him realize what he has done” was no longer worth my time. 6 years of dating, 20 years married, and about 8 months separated is how long I tried to get him to realize how his actions and choices affected me and the kids. That is how long I thought if he really knew, he would choose and feel differently. I couldn’t fathom that he wouldn’t.

    Let that shit go and accept you have no influence to make him into a better person. Life starts to get better from that moment on.

    • Yes, the good reminder that “It is not that they don’t see, it is that they disagree.” No amount if showing them what they did will turn them around. Entitlement is their thing and when they get caught it is why they all produce lists of ridiculous chump transgressions that simply forced them to cheat.

      Rub that puppy’s nose in their mess and they think it is roses and it is their right to do it and you are just a meany. And then they piss on the carpet again, run away from the growing stench that you obviously must have caused, and blame you for it all. Let them go piss on the AP’s carpet.

    • 7 years dating….20 years “married”…..8 months separated….therapy the whole time….me too.
      And he blew up my life’s work of attempting to have an emotionally healthy family. Well, I am, my daughter is, and he still gets an F in Moral and Emotional Maturity.

  • You know what bitch stands for?

    Boys
    I’m
    Taking
    Charge
    Here
    !!!

    I just want to tell Chump Lady that she is my favorite bitch of all time ️ ❤️ Thank you so much for all that you do. Please keep being your snarky, sarcastic, uppity, cheater-hostile, perky, helpful self. I ❤️ your attitude problem so freaking much 😍

  • I know this is a repost but I don’t think you understand how much of a influence you are having on the Chumps of the world, the Reconciliation Complex Industry and the Forgiveness Imperative. Your concept and blog are changing the dialog for millions and hopefully it will translate back to the court systems. Its like you gave us each a can of bullshit buster spray to use liberally on everything from facebook posts to friends who try to convince that her emotional affair was ‘ok’ with her spouse. Yeah, that went over like pork bbq at a barmitzvah with me. After I stopped her mid excuse and gave her a very large piece of my mind at her duplicity, she hates the stbx for cheating on me, I recommended your book to her. It was so odd hearing the same shit come out of her mouth as Narcles the porn clown to justify her affair. This is not the first time shes had an emotional affair. Yeah, she fell for some guy from Nigeria a few years back. Took months to convince her it was a scam. Because of Chump Nation she didn’t get to her second line of bullshit to cover up her affair. I stopped her mid sentence and gave her an earful of truth about what she was doing and how it really hit her husband in the heart. To say the least, she got mad at me. Later she called me back and said she had gotten your book. I also told her if she didn’t I would send a copy to her husband because he deserved better.

    I no longer really care who Narcles gets giggy with or how thanks to Chump Nation. I am no longer hiding behind the embarrassment of his cheating and calmly tell my truth. I can say that only on one occasion did the female not respond with relief and her story of the cheater in her life when I broke the code of silence that protected him. I still believe in the power of sisterhood. I still believe that other women who see this pain can learn and not join the OW wrecking crews. Maybe thats naive.

    I still get a flash of anxiety when I see Narcles from the years of verbal abuse but it lasts seconds not days and months to get over. That is one of the really powerful side effects of knowing I was chumped.

    Thank you Chump Lady and Thank you Chump Nation.

  • Sending Cheaters here is the equivalent of buying them books on sobriety, relationships, how to be a decent person, or recognizing psychopathic gaslighting behavior.

    As Dr. George Simon says, “It’s not that they don’t see. It’s that they disagree.”

  • I-for some reason- reverted back to my college years and more specifically how to reduce verbiage in a sentence to it’s simplest form.

    Kinda of a minimalist UBT. Ignore the text in parenthesis and read just the CAPITALIZED TEXT. Here goes…

    “YOU MIGHT WANT TO KNOW (that CL’s abusive condescending and completely unempathetic attitude towards) ME..”
    “I WANT (to be good but she (and I guess you) just want) TO FOCUS ON (how awful) I (am)”.
    “I (still hate CL though. Because she HATES and DESPISES me and people) LIKE ME”.

    So embedded in the mindfuck diatribe is the Freudian slip.

  • There are a few universal truths in the universe.

    One of them is that cheaters Absolutely NEVER regret anything they did.

    • Sure never showed signs of it. While I could not eat or sleep, she put on some pounds and fell asleep as soon as her head hit the pillow!

  • “CL’s abusive condescending and completely unempathetic attitude towards me (who actually wants to be a good person) has been very hurtful. I want to be good but she (and I guess you) just want to focus on how awful I am.”

    Yes, why can’t you overlook how awful I am and use empathy to focus on the fact that I *want* to be good. I mean, I don’t want to actually do good things, but I do want to be considered “good” and I find it hurtful that you instead have to focus on what I actually am – awful.

  • Oh, no. No. No. No. As tempting as it may be to send links to cheaters, it’s not meh. It just stirs up poop. …and I have ZERO desire to smell stirred up poop or duck and dodge when said poop hits the fan.
    Nope.
    …target audience/target reader…
    I frequently send links to the book and the blog…to chumps. …and to counselors and therapists working to help chumps. Sending those links to cheaters would be about as useful as sending “Mastering High Altitude Breathing Techniques for Mountain Goats” to a toad fish.
    (And for the chumps who’d like a tiny vindictive giggle, google images of toad fish and revel in the metaphor of cheater aka toad fish. …not very meh, but in terms of revenge imagery, it’s relatively benign.)

  • Mine never tracked down Chump Lady but he did read the articles I gave him on perfectionism before I knew about Schmoopie. I thought it was his perfectionism that was causing our rift and causing him to be so tyrannically critical of me and the kids. I wanted him to understand, from a neutral third party perspective, why his standards were not realistic and how his perfectionism was causing harm to the rest of us as well as to him. It was a brief moment of me trying to stick up for myself and the kids in the midst of a pick me dance that I didn’t realize was a competition with a fresher contestant. During our brief stint in MC he used that against me. He suggested that I had given him those articles in order to make him lower his standards and why should he have to do that just to make me happy. “There is nothing wrong with having high standards”. That hurt because I wasn’t looking to change his perspective just to make me happy. I was afraid that he would never be happy if he always set the bar so high that nobody, including himself, would ever be able to satisfy his standards and so he would always be disappointed. I was really trying to help him. I tried to tell him, “don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”. He could not be open to my perspective, however, because that might require that he change which would imply that he is imperfect as he is and that is a possibility that is too painful for him to face. Instead he chose to continue on the path he’s on, always chasing a standard of perfection that will never be realized and which will never lead to happiness or even contentment. I feel sorry for him sometimes.

  • I wouldn’t bother sending any cheating spouse here. Heck I’m not sure I’d even send any non-cheated on friends here either (cheated on friends — absolutely, this is the first place I’d tell them to go). The thing is, unless you’re on the receiving end of cheating or have any personal experience with it, then you have no idea what it’s really like – whether you’re a cheater or a Switzerland friend. It’s just the way it is.

    Unfortunately for me, my ex-wife found this place (because she found my CL book) and then threw a hissy fit because I was no longer willing to put up with her BS. It basically was the beginning of the end of the pick me dance at that point when she found the book, and she blamed CL as the imputes for me starting to stand up for myself — which of course, CL had a lot to do with (to my ever and full appreciation).

    Bottom line, don’t send your cheater here. You might as well send a plumber out to fix your computer.

  • Chump Lady.com is changing the narrative on cheating. It’s like that Faberge hair shampoo of the 1970s. I found it and have told 2 friends, and they tell 2 friends…and so on and so on. For too long, it’s been a “2 are to blame, be like Switzerland…” dialogue. I have seen a cheater get ridiculed by his parents, job friends, and schmoopie not be accepted.

    To me, the cheater is like a gambler who takes his pot of gold and trades it in for chips at a crooked casino. Cheater loses in the end, everyone sees it and can predict it. Cheaters look really old at the end of their affair. It’s the lies that really age them. For the audience, it’s like having front row tickets to a Greek tragedy. Anyone can show Cheater that it’s a crooked casino, but he’s too drunk on “winning big” to care. And, if you show him that the game is rigged, he takes that as that “he’s stupid.” Cheater’s not going to listen to CL! You can’t argue with crazy. Cheater isn’t in a logical state of mind. But, the spouse needs to be in a logical place, and fast. Thank Heaven for Chump Lady.

    • I like your analogy, but the sad thing is that it’s usually that the people who are victimised the most, needlessly are the chumps and if applicable their children, and yes, the Cheater is the author of his own downfall, but usually when it hits them they are too far down the road/too stupid/too unaware for it to harm them as much as it does the undeserving victim. I like hearing that some people do not accept the cheater and their AP. I think that social shaming and shunning in the old days, for all that it’s seen as archaic, was a very big discouragement to a wide range of bad behaviours that now, with our societies more laissez faire behaviour, most people don’t blink an eye at. Hoorah for standards and that’s what CL is all about.

  • “I want to be good but you just focus on….”

    Nice rhetorical trick there. As if the thing keeping him from not messing around is CL’s “focus”.

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