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UBT: “I’m sorry you feel that way”

Dear Chump Lady,

Married 24 years, together 27 years. Discovered he had affair with married coworker for over two years all the while “communicating” with escorts.

He left Jan 1, 2018. Usual chump bullshit for about 3 months, then I found you. (BTW, you were the only helpful thing during this…. even better than my therapist) and went full on NC and filed for divorce. We have two children ages 21 and 19. All of a sudden he’s trying to break NC by communicating through my children and creating new email accounts and even new cell numbers.

I just got this email from one of those new email addresses he created. I’d love you to translate this for me. I never responded.

PS. I never cheated, not sure what he is referring to when he says “we both did several things wrong in our marriage…”

Hi Chump,
I’m sorry to hear that you want no contact with me and I understand that but I am sorry you feel that way. This is a very difficult position for us I know. My lawyer has told me that you do not want to meet so he is forced to send the case to court. I wish we could both do what’s good for us to move on and make ourselves better people. We both did several things wrong in our marriage and I’m not going to rehash anything as I want you to find peace and love yourself as you should. I would appreciate keeping this email unblocked for emergency communication regarding our children. I am sorry for the pain and hurt I caused you and can only look to make myself better in hopes that I too find peace and sense of self worth. I know it’s hard to do, but I am willing to talk if you’d like regarding the divorce proceedings. I am also willing to talk about things that may help you get to a better place. I hope you are taking steps to live in the present and move forward, you are a good person and great mother as I have said before. I will assume no answer from you means you are not ready to talk, I understand that, but perhaps we can reach a mutual sense of agreement to communicate maturely for the sake of our own well being. I hope Pug gets better. Let me know if you need help. Just know I am human and doing my best.
With only loving intentions,
Cheater

Chief

Dear Chief,

The UBT has been having a nice summer vacation. Slathering all its sockets with coconut oil and basking in the sunshine. “Must I?” it sighed at me. “Yes. Summer is ending. The bullshit is piling up. Get to it!” I commanded. The UBT shook its transponder at me, but obeyed resentfully. This is why I can’t let it go too long between bullshit feedings. It gets lazy.

Fortunately, your cheater’s bullshit is just the thing to rev the UBT’s jets. So…

I’m sorry to hear that you want no contact with me

I hear it, but I don’t understand it. So I thought I’d contact you, because, you know, ME. ME ME ME ME ME ME. Did you want something? ME. #me

It’s unacceptable to ME that I’m losing my chump appliance. I fail to grasp consequences.

and I understand that but I am sorry you feel that way.

I don’t understand it, thus the work-arounds of your communication barricades.

I’m sorry you feel the need to shut me out, because I feel the need to manipulate you and this no contact thing is not working for me. (Did I mention ME? Because, ME.)

This is a very difficult position for us I know.

This is a very difficult position for me. But I’m including you, so you’ll take the blame for my idiocy and abuse. We had a two-year affair! We fuck escorts! We fail to understand your hostility!

(The royal We works here too. We are not pleased with Our subjects. They must endeavor to improve their gullibility on Our behalf.)

My lawyer has told me that you do not want to meet so he is forced to send the case to court.

I can bullshit you. I’m not so sure about the judge.

I wish we could both do what’s good for us to move on and make ourselves better people.

I must stop fucking escorts, and you must learn to properly flip pancakes. A lifetime of undercooked flapjacks has forced me into the arms of random pay-by-the-hour women. We both equally bear the burden of guilt.

I’m sorry you’re not a “better people.” You should work on that.

We both did several things wrong in our marriage and I’m not going to rehash anything as I want you to find peace and love yourself as you should.

I’m not going to rehash anything, as you might confront me with evidence and shit. #thetruthisnotthetruth

I’m above mentioning your Unmentionable Flaws as I want you to find peace and love. Your pancakes suck. Love! Peace!

I would appreciate keeping this email unblocked for emergency communication regarding our children.

I would appreciate you keeping this email unblocked so I can mindfuck you. And our children.

I am sorry for the pain and hurt I caused you and can only look to make myself better in hopes that I too find peace and sense of self worth.

I’m sorry my self-worth makes me do terrible things to you.

Gee, if I only felt better about myself these things wouldn’t happen. I know! Why don’t you compliment me and see if I treat you any better! Or better yet! Why don’t you call off these lawyers and be friends! Ooh! I think I feel my self-worth improving!

I know it’s hard to do, but I am willing to talk if you’d like regarding the divorce proceedings.

Please let me mindfuck you out of consequences.

I am also willing to talk about things that may help you get to a better place.

Who me? Hidden agenda? Why I’m all about your healing and personal well-being! That’s why I fucked escorts for years and risked your health, BECAUSE I CARE.

I hope you are taking steps to live in the present and move forward, you are a good person and great mother as I have said before.

Here’s a kibble. Fetch! You are a good wife appliance.

I hope you are taking steps to forget the past (where I defrauded you), and work on yourself by moving forward. You’re a good person who needs to improve themselves and not hang on to evidence bitterness.

I will assume no answer from you means you are not ready to talk,

I won’t assume it means “fuck off.”

I only assume I know what’s best for you (aka ME).

I understand that, but perhaps we can reach a mutual sense of agreement to communicate maturely for the sake of our own well being.

Plural pronouns and mutuality! Let’s communicate maturely! You know, like I do on those escort review sites. (Mature audience only!)

I hope Pug gets better.

I overflow with the milk of human kindness for all God’s creatures. Even the squishy-faced ones.

Let me know if you need help.

I imagine you weak and helpless. A woman bereft. Who cannot unscrew her mayonnaise jars without me. Call me! I’m here! I have pliers!

I could be persuaded to do something quasi-helpful if you call off the lawyers. Begging is such nice kibbles.

Just know I am human and doing my best.
With only loving intentions,
Cheater

Just know I am doing my best to manipulate you. With only loving intentions… towards myself. Avoiding all consequences. Cheater.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Oh please, this guy is such an idiot. Chief, I really think you’re amazing for resisting the temptation to reply and set him straight on matters. But as the more experienced here know – you can’t set them straight, or educate them, or align their chakras or anything, even with Crystal encrusted knuckle dusters. At least we all get a laugh at his expense, and to roll our eyes and shake our heads in unison. hang in there.

    • That letter makes it official – Cheaters are worthless fools. Don’t they get bored thinking about themselves all day? Where do they find the time? Being an idiot, playing with themselves, fucking anything that moves, saying stupid shit and image management is a time consuming life’s work. Have they considered their death? What to put on the tomb stone? Can they fit all of their wonderfulness on one grave marker? Wait I’m sure there is a shrine somewhere at least in cheater’s mind. It’s probably right next to the bottomless pit that is their soul.

      Feeling Monday.

      • Chief: He is so full of bullshit. He is running his own public relations campaign so he can tell all his friends/family/aquaintances that he reached out to you in the most loving and peaceful way and you refused contact. Trying to put the blame back on you. I’ve been thru the same. I’m sure you know by now they are narcissists. The more you understand the definition of that, the more you will understand the cheater. My situation is very similar to yours except we did not have children. It’s so much worse when children are involved. You will obviously have to have contact with him because of the children and you will have times when you can’t help yourself because you want to lash out at him (that’s okay) but, as best you can, limit your contact. Go thru with the divorce no matter how painful. My STBX has already split with the OW and is now shagging anything that comes his way. I feel like I wasted 28 years of my life, probably because we had no children, but you do and that is very different. Try your best to be strong and when you can’t, you can’t, but the next day will be better. It takes time. Hope you have a good therapist. There are bad ones out there, beware. I wish you all the luck and blessings in the world.

        • All true, except these kids are GROWN! So the purest form of No Contact is absolutely the best option here! If the kids have something to communicate to either parent, they are free to do so. In an emergency, officialdom can take over; the usual ‘next of kin’ or ‘you can make one phone call’ will apply.

        • Oh my. My STBX has also sent loving emails hoping we can just talk about our divorce. It’s such a crock! I know he was doing it for the benefit of forwarding it to his new support friends. All new younger friends. I answered that I wish we could move forward in a mutual loving way but our interactions for the past 6 months has indicated otherwise. I gave a few examples. The spin spin me me me me me me is mind boggling.

      • This post came at a perfect time in confirming what I already knew. My husband’s ex-wife is the cheater – a pastor who screwed her married co-pastor, sometimes in the church, for months before he found out. This was not her first indiscretion, of course, but it was the final straw for him. She also comes with a big dose of personality disorders. Of late she has turned her vicious personal attacks and endless trouble making via lawyers into manipulative attempts to “make peace” with my husband. Her email stated that “several people think we should get over ourselves and work together” and said she has always hoped “someday after the divorce we can be friends”. She wants to sit down for coffee with him now. Mind you, we have been through 3 years of hell with her since we got married, including but limited to, befriending my ex-husband and his new wife in some sort of demented alliance, , bullying me on social media, calling ME crazy and other names in every email and correspondence regarding their children, accusing me of driving children drunk, calling me a bitch at a school function in front of my SD, trying to fleece my husband by adding dollars to school fees and other expenses…. I could go on and on. The final straw was when she physically attacked my 15 yo SD and we got a restraining order. My SD has not been with her mother in over 10 months because she knows how unstable and mentally ill she is. So now the offers of “getting over ourselves”. My husband wants no contact and will never be alone with her. Everything is handled through lawyers which she hates! And just yesterday, she sent a flirtatious text about some memory when they were married. He about died laughing! She recently got caught in a big lie and it is obvious she thinks she can still manipulate and smooth it over like she did for years. We can see through it all and this post just reinforced what we knew to be true… narcissistic cheaters are predictable and pathetic. Thank god for your website!

  • The UBT has used its vacation time well.

    Cheaters never understand why No Contact and paying money to a lawyer is preferable to discussing anything further with them. That paying upwards of $500/hour to be rid of them and their potentially STD-riddled bodies and mindfucking abusive ways is money well spent.

    Chief – you mentioned that your kids are 19 & 21 years old. The parent who first discloses the reason (or in the case of the cheater, the ‘reason’) for the separation and divorce is the one whose narrative is likely to take hold. I would definitely mention multiple escorts and a two-year affair behind your back, without your consent once. I hope your STD panel came back clean. I hope his lights up the night and his dick dissolves.

    • omg! I swear I am and have been going tru similar BULLSHIT with my ex trying to tell me how he is such a better person now that he finally found his TRUE LOV that he was fucking 3 months plus before he abandoned our 18 year marriage . cuz he hadn’t known happiness in so many years. no.. how can anyone truly be happy when they are slutting around. posting gay porn on the internet of himself. wanting to hook up with a tranny along with cross dressing and the last 2 years of our lives together and FUCKING with my head and heart so much.. It’s taken me almost 2 yrs and I am no where near recovered from his narcissistic BULLSHIT, GAS LIGHTING , BLAME SHIFTING.
      sorry.. I got carried away.
      I got the same text last August I swear!

    • The whole “my lawyer had been forced to send the case to court since you won’t speak to me” is a thinly-veiled threat. Not sure wtf he’s talking about since she filed first…..apparently he planned on talking her out of it himself.

      Plus their kids are fucking adults. Keeping that email for emergency contact about their kids is laughable.

    • They all hate to pay for lawyers, but didn’t mind paying for hookers at all! It slays me, especially since many of the whores are more expensive. My disgusting ex was making appointments with an $800 fetish prostitute that he had to fly across the country to see. Talk about expensive, but he didn’t want to give me a damned dime of mutually accumulated assets. It boggles the mind how much cheaper a good lawyer is in the long run.

      • Yes, those daily hand jobs at the Asian massage parlor add up! But MONEY ON LAWYERS?!!!! God forbid! And criticizing MY spending at the same time. While he wasted 120.00 and hour weekly/bi-monthly x 27 years…..

  • Chump Lady, you are absolutely the best. Thank you for seeing everything with such clarity for those of us stuck in the mud.

  • “BTW, you were the only helpful thing during this…. even better than my therapist”

    You may as well turn your therapist on to this site. It’s educational for everybody. Particularly those who have been brainwashed by the (W)Reconciliation Industrial Complex. The swift kick to the frontal lobes when they realize they have been re-traumatizing a Chump or victim of abuse and hopefully a rapid re-evaluation of their treatment and outcomes is worth potentially pissing them off.

    If they want to say they learn something from every client (and a lot of them do), then it’s time to challenge them directly. Would they feel as though they had been successful if a battered spouse returned? Then why do they feel successful when an emotionally abused spouse reconciles? Plus toss in years of lying (cheating) and health risks (STDs and if there is an affair – what stops the Other Party from also being a physical threat?) and stealing money from the family to woo or rent sex from others?

    No one should regard that as a victory.

    • THIS!!!!!

      CL: future post idea: “therapists” who further abuse us. There are a lot of angles I can think of. My story involves a CSAT PhD whose husband, also a CSAT, was meeting with X and did a half dozen sessions with X and a complete psycho-sexual evaluation— therapists knew X had no remorse, was blameshifting and gaslighting me and that I was suffering terribly from the effects following DDay. They both knew he abused me physically too. We went to the wife CSAT for “marriage counseling” where for 3 months X screamed and raged at me, slammed therapists’ doors, threw things at the wall… in therapy! He lobbed outrageous allegations at me such as that he was forced to fuck OW de jur because we bought a house ten years previously🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯…. I never bought him a comfortable chair to sit in🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯…… I never accepted him🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯etc etc etc. in response I cowered in my corner of the couch sobbing. Me, a trained professional, kick ass litigator, reduced to that by 26 years with the abusive fucker.
      Therapist allowed this and happily took our $220 an hour week after week. I lasted 18 weeks of this and finally kicked his lying blaming ass to the curb. Eventually found CL, filed, went NC, took him to trial got 72% and full custody. The judge didn’t permit any of X’s theatrics and threw the book at him. Meh is great!
      These therapists did me real harm, however. What happened at their hands was almost worse than what X did. I am so engaged in healing and building my life I can’t tackle dealing with the injustice of their conduct. Horrible Yelp reviews? Complaint to State licensing board?

      • Sorry if this post is a bit long but speaking of sucky therapists…..
        A friend of mine, some years back had to go to a court appointed therapist for her child as her husband had had an ongoing affair with another child’s mother and long story short they split up. My friend’s child was distraught as his father and OW would stand together while also being affectionate during his games while his mother was off on the other side of the benches by herself. So after the therapist meets with son, therapist then calls in both parents.

        Therapist: Father, son is very upset with you bringing girlfriend to his games and he feels very bad for his mother.
        Therapist: Mother, could you stop attending son’s games?

        This is a true story and of course they never went back to that therapist.

        • “Therapist: Father, son is very upset with you bringing girlfriend to his games and he feels very bad for his mother.
          Therapist: Mother, could you stop attending son’s games?”

          *jaw drops*

          I hope one or both lodged a complaint with the licensing board. In this day and age, I they would name the therapist online too. You just can’t make this shit up!

          • Her father was well connected and outraged, so I think he may have lodged a complaint. He said what the hell would you expect from a court appointed quack.

            • Oh and speaking of the karma bus. Can’t remember if this happened before the therapist incident or after but the cheater was a contractor and a heavy beam fell on him putting him out of commission for months. Unfortunately my friend took him back during his convalescence with the stipulation he would never see OW again. Of course the minute he could walk……he went straight back to OW. 20 years later they (cheater & OW) still live in separate residences. OW just uses him for $$ and high end construction work. OW chases other men, no one will bite and cheater still drives around trying to find OW. Oh & he is basically crippled at this point from the accident.

      • Therapist can do a lot of harm…. that’s why we need therapists who UNDERSTAND the reality of the victims etc.
        Mine was so-so
        He never allowed lots of bs during the session and she warned me that we Came to her to improve our marriage…. she suggested another person to deal with my fucked up mind…. unfortunately at that point I was like a deer 🦌 looking in a headlines, while being a step away from a total breakdown….
        the whole situation brought some good stuff- I’m doing my grad studies in mental health and planning on working with women fucked up by sex addicts, narcissists etc.
        Yes, I will obtain certificates in “ sex addiction specialist” – because the document will be there to prove I fully understand the concept of it, while using it to actually HELP the real victims…. instead of feeding egos of those who create the mess…

        • ” I’m doing my grad studies in mental health and planning on working with women fucked up by sex addicts, narcissists etc.
          Yes, I will obtain certificates in “ sex addiction specialist” – because the document will be there to prove I fully understand the concept of it, while using it to actually HELP the real victims…. instead of feeding egos of those who create the mess…”

          Grad – turning lemons into lemonade on behalf of chumps!

          Best wishes in your studies. Be super-careful during your internship. They LOVE to destroy you with any slip-up. They look for them and some programs are particularly vicious. I hope yours isn’t one of them.

          • The problem is thinking that a therapist needs special training in “Sex Addiction” to help a partner. I don’t believe you need it if you’re going to properly treat and advocate solely for the partner with WHAT THEIR VALUES ARE. As Chumplady regularly asks: Is this relationship (behavior) acceptable to you?

            Through terrible personal experience I learned the foundation for current CSAT training is based on the original addict, gas-lighter and victim blamer Carnes and now his daughter. And NONE of the models and approaches have been empirically evaluated. Unless your studies are based on works and approaches like those promoted by Minwalla, Sisterhood of Support and Chumplady, and specifically NOT conflicted by “treating” the “sex addict”, then please please keep away from their victims. Please spend A LOT of time at POSA meetings and the old remaining COSA meetings (that’s right, partners are CO-ADDICTS!) and talking to the beat-down victims of both “sex addicts” and CSAT therapists to form a true victim-based modality instead of relying on Carnesian training to shape your approach.
            CSAT maxims: “Don’t tell anyone they might not understand”. Yeah, people who truly love and care about you would tell you immediately to get the hell out. And help you do it. There go the CSAT therapy $$$.
            “Wait a year before you make any major decisions like filing for divorce.” So you can be mindfucked by your partner and a CSAT therapist into submission, and keep the therapy $$$ flowing.
            “Your marriage can be better than ever.” Our field has no data to back this statement up yet we keep telling traumatized victims that. And if you keep coming to therapy we can convince you it’s happening.
            “Polygraphs are useful for assessing the addict’s progress.” Wow if a marriage needs a polygraph… But it’s a fun time for all, involving not only $$$ to therapists but a polygrapher earning a few bucks.

            The “CSAT trauma therapist” who claimed she only worked with partners formed a men’s group 4 months after I started seeing her and invited my husband with the promise I would be her priority. Yet when he started becoming physically abusive, she never once advocated that I leave. Though I’d called the police 3x on him, she kept silent. It wasn’t until I confided in an old high school friend that I sstarted to see the numerous ways he was abusing me – from giving me an STD from fucking prostitutes, to compulsively lying about finances and everything under the sun, to gaslighting me until I became depressed and immunocompromised. And last year, when I requested my mental health files, she went back and edited EVERY session note (left a digital time stamp), so there was no reference to sex addiction. The “Violence/danger” field was marked none, which doesn’t remotely match our text and email exchanges. And the day of the big disclosure, the record doesn’t mention the nature of the session or include my ex and his therapist in the “Participants” field. Just me and her.

            Sorry Grad, I have no respect for the CSATs. I’ve met too many partners who received bad treatment and worsening trauma by them. The only happy partner is one who divorced the “sex addict” AND their CSAT.

            • Wow, Geode! Thank you for sharing all this! I’m a therapist, too. Read a lot of their nonsense in the early 1990s. It doesn’t work. Plain & simple. Snake oil dressed up in 12-Step clothing.
              Save your money, chumps! An FCC your sanity and what’s left of your mental health!

              I’m beginning to think Chump Nation (or those of us who have activist leanings) might choose to start researching these RIC sites and educating those in cheater triage stages. That is how I found CL. And I never turned back.

      • My therapist knew NOTHING of personality disorders and counseled me to “love this man”

        God I was so fucked up until I started reading about personality disorders. I never knew those kind of people existed.

        Thank you for sharing your experience.

        • Chumps & kids are the sufferingVictims and Cheaters are the ones who get the love & sympathy. It is so messed up!

        • I went to a psychiatrist to get a higher dose of my antidepressant – the first psychiatrist I have ever been to in my life – thanks to the mindfuck of my separation/divorce from the asshole narc I was married to for over twenty years. He told me to read “Women who love too much” and then showed me a prayer that he felt I needed to recite to myself daily “to heal”. During our one hour consult he also asked about my settlement and if it was “lucrative enough” then basically dismissed any issues that I may have been having (the anxiety attacks, the PTSD symptoms, the major depression to name a few) because hey, I got a great financial settlement so what’s the big deal?? He followed up that little gem of quackery with the suggestion that I had “made a twenty year mistake, it’s time to let it go and move on”.

          This was after my STBX had moved his girlfriend into our family home and proposed to her within weeks of the kids and I vacating the premises.

          I complained to my regular therapist about his lackluster bedside manner and his obvious disdain for women like me, his lack of real understanding of the situation, and she was shocked and surprised but didn’t really believe me from what I could tell. (maybe I was being too emotional??)

          A couple of months later she had to admit that I was right because she had sent two other women to him, with similar circumstances, and they had received the same dismissive, condescending treatment. It was disgusting and ignorant, so unbelievable how we are expected to trust professionals and they can be just as big of an asshole as the one we are divorcing.

      • ABSOLUTELY a complaint to any licensing board they are part of. This completely unacceptable and unprofessional.

        Check, though, whether they belong to any boards at all. A lot of Sex Addiction therapists are making it up as they go along, and their ‘certification’ may just be a bunch of ’em who got together and created a certificate. If they aren’t registered in your jurisdiction as a professional psychologist, marriage and family therapist, etc, there may be not much you can do. Definitely Yelp reviews, and hit Rate My Therapist as well. This is outrageous!

        • Well, I just looked up CSAT, and look who gives it;
          “The International Institute for Trauma and Addiction Professionals (IITAP) is one of several for-profit organizations whose business is that of creating and protecting a profitable community of clinicians who market themselves as adhering to a particular set of standards for the professional treatment of sexual addiction[1] and multiple addictions” (Wikipedia)

          Note the FOR PROFIT part there, and that they are not a licensing board. Therefore no ethical standards required, no consequences when they fuck up.

          Sucks so badly! Complain to them anyway, and check whether your therapist was also licensed as a psychologist, therapist etc.

          • IITAP – started by Patrick Carmes who labeled victims Co-Addicts to share the blame. Himself a “sex addict.”

            Nowhere do they ever mention or test for deeper mental illness because then their revenue would take a hit.

            I’d like to see an institution NOT started and administered by sex addicts. One that is solely based on the victim experience and helping victims recover without any influence from the “addict” and their dysfunction.

    • Yeah, my therapist emailed me an Esther Perel article “as food for thought” once. Only once. I shut that down pronto! Thankfully she happens to be an awesome professional, and was willing to evaluate her bias and assumptions. Now we talk in CL lingo. 🙂

      • Esther Perel puts together a slick package and it’s so easily digested. Goes down like pudding. Sweet, poisoned pudding.

        Good therapists may initially fall for it, but when called on it, work through THEIR shit and come around.

        So now we all know. One of the first questions for any potential therapist is how do they regard infidelity and Esther Perel in particular.

  • Dear Chump, I am bleeding money here. My lawyer is having a wonderful time billing me. Let’s get together, talk things over, you sign on the dotted line, then I can stop paying him/her. We can be friends. See? Simple.
    Oh, by the way, pat the dog for me.

    • My ex tried EVERY. THING. to prevent me from hiring my lawyer….he even pretended to be considering reconciling with me. Once I realized what was going on, and hired that lawyer….well. His highness was Not Pleased. It was almost worth all the money just to watch him squirm when dealing with her. (Though it was well worth it in the settlement as well).

  • The idea that he sees me as helpless makes my blood boil. My STBXH left just after XMas. Yet, by July, he had done absolutely nothing to initiate the legal separation agreement. Not sure why he hasn’t been anxious to get the process started as he can’t afford to live on his own and must be itching to get his money on the equity of the house.

    I didn’t initiate immediately for a few reasons. First, I needed to wrap my head around the fact that he left me for another woman. Second, I was still investigating the depth of his deception and reeling from what I was discovering, Third, our son with autism completely derailed. I had to carefully renogitiate our access agreement with the kids so that STBX amicably gave up more time (thus letting go of his precious 50% time that would absolve him of paying child support). Luckily, with the help of a great family counsellor assessing our son, he agreed to school nights being spent with me in order to preserve our son’s routine and sleep patterns. Fourth, I needed to let time lapse with the new access agreement so that it would become a “de facto” arrangement that would work in my favour if it ever went to court.

    So, July is when I approach him by stating that I have retained a lawyer to draft a legal separation agreement and that my intention is to file for divorce when the one year of separation comes up (that date was determined to be Nov. 30th). He doesn’t understand why we need to do this through lawyers when we can create our own agreement at a fraction of the cost. When I pressed him about why he hasn’t done anything all of these months, he said that he was worried about me and didn’t want to add to my stress by pressuring for the legal separation. Oh, screw you! Two and a half years of running around with other women and now your concerned about my mental well being?

    Sorry buddy. Lawyer up. This is getting properly done. I’m not signing that pathetic three page separation agreement you got off a template on the internet back at Christmas time. You are going to feel the pain of the adult decision-making that goes into dismantling a 15 year relationship. No, I don’t need your HELP.

    • Dear Chief. CL has called it all brilliantly. What a paragon of virtue this turd is in reasonably reaching out to you and offering his advice and support through this difficult time. How big of him to state that he wants everyone to be mature about all of this.

      Why OW probably helped him fashion this email and poured just as much energy into creating the most kind and rationale statements encouraging everyone here to be grown up about this misfortune. Let’s all stay calm here because we are all at fault for what has happened.

      After all, we are concerned about you and wish you no ill will. We want you to be happy too. We just all humans trying out best. We hope to receive the best from you too. We can rise above this and be better people for it. In the end, you’ll probably thank us.

      • I too, got a whopper of a letter from the “OW.” She told me how to parent, and how she just wants us to “work together for the children.” The letter was very well crafted; so much so, that when I checked the letter’s “Properties,” I discovered that X had written it – all day during work.

        I never responded, and within a day the venom came.

        So to let them know I wasn’t playing, I emailed their human resource director a copy of the letter, the properties page, and the hateful emails on the university’s server, and informed her that if I received any more harassing letters from either employee, I would file a complaint against the university.

        Seems both got a letter placed in their personnel files because of their behavior. And within four months, X’s contract wasn’t renewed and OW found a new job.

      • Just reminded of some more things he does that make my blood boil. He goes about thanking people for their support. Of me. “Thank you so much for helping Bestill.” “Thank you so much for all you have done for Bestill.” What a sycophantic hypocrite.

        • Bestill.. I hate that. He thanks people and also gives them permission to still have a relationship with me. Fuck him

    • Chief, I can see the hand wringing from here. And poor little pug gets a virtual pat just to finish things off nicely.
      And Option no more; I thought my STBX was being lazy and naive too , not finding a lawyer when he was the one in a rush to end the marriage. Until I insisted on seeing his bank records. He had been to a lawyer way back, one that mine said made him take a deep breath when he had to work with him.
      Get it sorted first!

      • Omg the billshit is sky high. Mine wanted to do it without a lawyer too. That way he could manipulate me into giving him more than he should by law( and he shouldn’t have gotten one penny since he stole his share while we were in wreckonciliation). Because, well , consequences. He also tried to talk me into leaving out house( “ you take the apartment work on yourself and I’ll come to see you every day. Maybe we’ll reconcile in 6 months, maybe we’ll even get remarried”) I just said funny I didn’t think you could get remarried before you’re divorced.. lawyer up and get what’s yours..,

    • Mine was so concerned about my well-being that he wanted a key to my home after I bought him out. Shit, my well-being sky rocketed when he left!

    • This is a textbook example of NOT waiting for a cheater to determine your timetable. It’s brilliant to let the child visitation become a “de facto” arrangement. People who have big financial problems might not have that luxury of waiting but the key is to know what’s in YOUR best interest, not the cheater’s. Because to be sure, the cheater will look out for #1.

    • My Ex did the same thing…left on Jan/Feb but did not do anything to file for divorce. All his checks were still being deposited into joint and I gave him an allowance and paid his bills. Yet, I could know nothing about his life or what he was doing or what was going on with us. Finally in November I filed. But this time he had a girlfriend that was 4 months pregnant (I didn’t know it at the time).

      One of the best things I did early when he left was determine what he wanted for custody/visitation. At the time he wanted no responsibilities. So the EOW became defacto. Of course now that he has a new child and is pretending to be Father of the Year material, he complains. But he had well over a year to show that he wanted something different and never did.

      He never did get a lawyer during the process, complained it went too fast and I took full advantage of his lack of agency. Now he whines that he looks bad and that I screwed him over. Why do these guys feel like they can do whatever they want to you and you still act in their best interest is beyond me.

      • ‘Why do these guys feel like they can do whatever they want to you and you still act in their best interest is beyond me.’ — It really IS mind boggling. The gall! Ex also complained I moved way too fast. Buddy, I already wasted 17 years of my life for you – ain’t going to waste a single second for you anymore.

  • Cheaters once again prove they are all the same. I got a similar letter. “I”m sorry you feel that way.” You deserve to be happy and you can be if you work on it.” Yep, I worked on it alright by going no contact and leaving. Life has since improved dramatically.

  • Chief – you are a No Contact BADASS! This is what mightiness looks likes, folks. You block your phone, you block your email. (I co-parent so I only text/email and ONLY when it directly related to our 13yo son).

    I can hear your soon-to-be-X twitching like a homeless crack addict… CONSEQUENCES… how these fuckwits hate them.

    After every mediation session Mr. Sparkles would ask “can’t we just sit down and discuss the divorce?” I would respond no and tell him to put any offer he wants on the table in writing to my lawyer… funny, guess he couldn’t find a pen.

    And yes UBT and CL… judges see things pretty darn clearly. My 3-ring 3″ divorce “binder” of evidence was greatly appreciated by the court. Document, document, document.

    You’ve got this, Chief. Thanks for the reminder of why we are so better off in a future without these people who “care so much”. Keep moving forward in your life! You are awesome!

    • “After every mediation session Mr. Sparkles would ask “can’t we just sit down and discuss the divorce?” I would respond no and tell him to put any offer he wants on the table in writing to my lawyer… funny, guess he couldn’t find a pen.”

      So the lesson in this strange contradiction is that they don’t want to make an offer in mediation, where they are supposed to do so. They want to do it in private in order to manipulate the chump.

      • LAJ… yup… they think they can razzle dazzle their way into a favorable settlement. If it isn’t in writing, it isn’t a real offer.

  • Ah. The Laundry List of Things I Did Wrong, but he is not willing to rehash. First of all, in order to rehash things, they have to be hashed first. Which they never were. N. E. V. E. R. I heard THAT EXACT SAME THING INCLUDING THE WORD “REHASH”. I met this man in therapy, oh, say, once a week, twice a month, FOR 27 YEARS, and heard nothing from the infamous laundry list, of shit he now doesn’t want to rehash, EVER. He had no problem talking, texting, emailing, meeting up with, and fucking God knows who. He had 27 years to talk, in a mediated setting, about anything and everything, and didn’t. It was only last week that his M.O., his “you did all this stuff ….I’m ending our marriage because of it….and I’m not going to hash OR rehash it….is a form of emotional abuse in and of itself. The similarities I encounter on this blog blow my mind and I find odd comfort in it. This has become my infidelity survivor 12 Step meeting….thank you Chump Lady, and all who share, for my daily dose of sanity.
    (PS….Cheater, ironic and abusive and not lost on me how the double standards still abound….he lied to and didn’t communicate with YOU, but YOU shutting HIM out after you discover he soul-murdered you and your family is unacceptable and immature? Jiminy Crack Motherfreaking Christmas.

    • When writing this morning I was apoplectic with outrage. What I meant to say was that I only last week realized that his M.O. of failing to communicate honestly, while evidently pretending to be invested in the marriage, and now telling me he has this huge list of grievances, which he wants to end the marriage because of, but doesn’t want to “rehash”…..is a major form of emotional abuse, in and of itself. Independent of the infidelity, it is reason enough for me to run for the hills.

      • Oh yes.
        Shortly after Lying Liar’s return from “sex addiction camp” (hello Mr. Weinstein), while waiting for the neurologist report (“If this was my husband, I would run”), right before I threw him out, I was standing in the back of a pickup truck full of firewood, throwing pieces into the holder. Lying Liar was pacing around on the ground, lecturing me on how all our troubles were because I was so naive, so idiotic, always wore my rose colored glasses, and had no understanding that all his perversions were actually “normal”. If I would just “grow up”, (at 60), then everything would be fine.

        This is how stupid he thought I was. Meanwhile, Ms Chumpy Pink Colored Glasses was seriously considering accidently “dropping” one of the pieces of firewood REALLY HARD onto his pervert head…

        I also got the “we have to use this email my lawyer set up to communicate, its essential” after I went 100% percent NC and blocked everything. I mean, how else could he educate me on “normal”??

        • Congratulations on your restraint! If these guys only knew how close they were to being the victim of homicide, they’d take a lot more care about how close they get to us!!!

          • I told him how close he could have come. I reached for BOOKS and THERAPY instead of a GUN, which people do all the time. I demanded thanks and he gave it to me. Who cares if he meant it or not: just him thanking me and choking on the words was fine by me. (He was UPSET that our daughter saw the word AFFAIR on “one of those books you brought home! They were everywhere!” Yeah, well, I wouldn’t have brought the BOOKS home if you hadn’t brought the HOOKER home. He is definitely NOT a member of Mensa.

            • And Relationship Genius never connected the dots that strange rando from Craigslist might show up and blow us all away….

              • None of them ever even IMAGINES that scenario, because…sparkly turd!ME ME ME! Never mind it takes f*-ed up people to knowingly grenade someone else’s marriage. MOW skank called cheater threatening to come to OUR home (where I and our minor offspring live – not he – and where she had met him in the past while I worked) if he didn’t call her husband IMMEDIATELY to tell him that it “weren’t no damned affair, it was just a couple of presents!*”
                *presents = bras, thongs, cheap perfume, Daisy Dukes cutoffs, and the holy Christmas Jackrabbit vibrator. You know, Chumps, the kind of gifts every boss gives his employee, right?
                [Okay, full disclosure: her biker hubby needed to know bc I had called him the week prior to inform him of their 3-year affair. But, in my defense, I was only 1 month post Dday#3 and I hadn’t yet mastered NC, which I have mastered now. Aaaand, it took a week to ‘narrow it down to my cheating husband, since he wasn’t the ONLY and I told her DH to ask her who he was!]

        • @Diane:

          You wrote: “Lying Liar was pacing around on the ground, lecturing me on how all our troubles were because I was so naive, so idiotic, always wore my rose colored glasses, and had no understanding that all his perversions were actually “normal”. If I would just “grow up”, (at 60), then everything would be fine.”

          My now-ex wife tried to lecture me that the ‘real world’ is ruthless and I’m just naive to think that most married people aren’t sleeping around. And I’m such an unsophisticated Puritan.

          1) Believe me, I’m far from naive. I’m much more street smart and savvy than she is, and naturally skeptical. 2) Pardon me for being naive enough to trust the person I was married to. It was like she was reciting that line from Animal House, “You fucked up – you trusted us [me].”

          According to her, I should have known better than to believe I had a loving wife of 15 years, rather than what she turned out to be – the town bike. My bad.

          • I finally stopped arguing w/my ex about how ‘common’ cheating is, and ‘not a big deal’, and just told him that I didn’t want to be married to someone dishonest and disrespectful, no matter how common that may be. End of conversation.

            BTW, he tried to convince me of the same thing about his physical threats; ‘not a big deal’ because he hadn’t actually physically hurt me, only terrified me and made me fear for my life. Well, guess what, that’s a big deal TO ME, and I get to decide what I will accept or not in my life.

          • Town Bicycle!!! OMGosh thank you for his new nickname!!! He is a Lance Armstrong wanna-be….in all ways. I have a list of nicknames for him (many culled from this blog) and this is my new favorite!!

            • Velvet hammer..love it! My lance Armstrong just last week didnt secure his 3,000.00$ bike to the rack correctly and got to watch it bounce down the interstate in his rear view mirror..was so tore up he called into work sick. When I had a major surgery he went to work cause it’s boring in the waiting room and all…too funny that karma..

              • My “Lance Armstrong” declined more than once last year when I asked him to be my gym buddy. I am rehabbing from nerve damage from when I had pneumonia in 2015. I was left unable to walk almost completely from post-infectious neuropathy. I spent months on major painkillers and parking in handicapped spots, limping short distances. I had to lift my leg manually to get into the bathtub. I could not climb stairs, etc. His response? Scorn. Impatience. I was physically compromised. The house got messy. I fell behind. He did manage arranging after-school pickups for our daughter. But the major reaction was anger at me. I felt alone and on my own through the healing process. He did help me down-climb Mt. Monadnock when we hiked it in Oct 2016….I needed hiking boots with more ankle support and had to baby-step down the mountain using him as a hiking pole. Then after discovering the affair, I found out that the Asian massage parlor cheating partner, his “sole mate”, expressed an interest in riding bikes with him…so what does he do? Takes her bike shopping. During the test ride she crashed the bike and broke her collar bone. He lied about being on a business trip for four days so he could take care of her during surgery. He spent my birthday on the phone all day advocating for her with medical professionals (she is from China and doesn’t speak English very well). No wonder he didn’t have much to say on my birthday dinner date. Much to the surprise of my Harvard-trained neurologist, who didn’t have much hope for my recovery, I am walking very well now and can even run. She said I am showing a miraculous recovery. So glad because now I can walk, better yet RUN, away from him. My “husband” bailed on me. When I read what I just wrote, just ONE incident in the annals of his affair, not even counting what I DON’T know about, I don’t see how it would be possible to reconcile and maintain even a microscopic shred of dignity and self-esteem.
                PS…if you want to see how true love acts when a family member is injured, watch The Crash Reel about snowboarder Kevin Pearce…

      • Thank you for sharing this. I havent been able to figure out why am I so overly disgusted with his sudden “communication” and non-stop texting. It is like this contrast to the silent treatment and rejection and abuse is re-abusing me. I’m reliving the rejection through the increase in attention that he’s giving me now.

        And I’m sick of being told to be mature. Be an adult woman. To communicate. To stop being a child.

        Well HELLO wtf was I doing for the last 5 years. I was talking to a wall. Actually I was talking to empty air. No matter what I said… even simple as guess what happened today… he would start walking to the doorway. I would be a couple sentences in and laughing telling my story and 👀👀 he’s gone. I would say did you hear me? Where are you? He would yell from the other end of the house yeah yeah I’m here I’m listening. I would sometimes say can you come back I want to finish telling you. Or rarely I would protest. Then he’s running back to the room because now he can yell at me. Now he can tell me im boring, not funny, interested in stupid stuff, and that he’s a real man that can multi-task, and he’s not lazy like me sitting and telling a story! He’s getting shit done! And if I complain about him not listening (leaving the room) then he would say “ya know what! now I’m not going to listen to you at all next time you talk. Ya happy now?”

        And I agree with the the “not going to hash and rehash” being abusive. He says what he wants to say which is actually gaslighting and rewritten reality BUT then I can’t respond. It’s stonewalling and rejection. It’s the poking of emotions and then forcing us to swallow them.

        I’m completely no contact for 30 days. I went no contact and then he came after me. He can ignore ME but no one ignores Mr Entitled. I have a restraining order now.

        • You are mighty Whatringofhell! Congrats on getting restraining order! That is abuse and so hard for most of us in long term marriages to actually recognize this when it is happening! Emotional abuse just becomes accepted behaviour and tolerated by the chumps ( us) because it is what we are used to! #nomoreneveragain

        • I got the walking away while I was laughing and telling a story so many times. Eventually I stopped telling stories and then I was boring. Never realized how abusive it was, the way he just kept carving out my individuality until I was a shell of a person.

          Same playbook, same a**hole. Enjoy yourwell-deserved peace, whatringofhellisthis.

        • Omg, mine used to do the same thing, I would start talking to him and he would get up to leave the room to “get tea” or would ignore me for his gaming buddies. I’m so so happy I don’t have to deal with that behaviour anymore. Such a relief!

      • Proper disgusting low grade manipulation. I got ‘I don’t want to hurt you, there is no point analysing things unless at productive in some way and, anyway, it won’t help with my rexovery’

        Jesus H Christ. Recovery this is from his horrendous relationship that he went through the motions with hardly saying a word and eventually fell into the arms of someone who ‘sees’ him.

        Honestly that email. Thanks for the laugh frankly, what a total dweeb and attempt to manipulate. Yeah more NC will drive him insane. Top work.

        Of course you realise it will be you being ‘unreasonable’ again. Nasty self interested pieces of work.

        • you just reminded me .. .. wasband would always say that he did not want to “make me mad” or he did not tell me something because i would “get mad”.. .. . well.. .. . um. HELL YES of course i would get mad. he was fucking some other thing (i just cant call her a woman)… … hell yes i would get mad when he stayed out all night and did not answer my phone calls or texts. .. … … hell yes i would get mad when he did not pay a bill before spending all his paycheck on God knows what.

          wasband also left me for someone who “understands him better” oh and she “treats him better” because i did not treat him right. .. .. and yep, i “got boring” (i was grieving the passing of my first born daughter who was 25). .. .. .. .ironically, God has allowed me to watch the Karma Bus hit him full force a few times. his thing literally beats the shit out of him, throws bottles at his face, puts him down, makes fun of him (she told him in front of her friend that he has a small dick), belittles him, controls and manipulates him. she will not let him visit or talk to his children (she is so worried that he will come back to me or have sex with me while he is visiting) .. .. they cant keep a job, or an apartment or vehicles or anything. his new car got repossessed because he did not pay a car payment in over a year (but he had speakers, fancy rims, a stereo system, tinted windows, etc). .. he has been homeless more often then not, living in his car/van. his boys no longer care if he comes around or not. he is badly addicted to meth and alcohol.. .. .. And he is too stupid to realize what he has lost.. .. …

      • “What I meant to say was that I only last week realized that his M.O. of failing to communicate honestly, while evidently pretending to be invested in the marriage, and now telling me he has this huge list of grievances, which he wants to end the marriage because of, but doesn’t want to “rehash”…..is a major form of emotional abuse, in and of itself. Independent of the infidelity, it is reason enough for me to run for the hills.”

        I had this exact realization recently. In addition he continually showed me that he did not care about my well-being, ever. And made zero changes that I asked for unless they directly benefited him. I should have run a along time ago but projected my values onto him.

    • I got “there are some things you just can’t fix”, “no, I am not going to mention that, it’s just too painful” and “there are certain behaviors in you that I just don’t see changing”. All vague and all intended to make me feel like I have huge character defects that somehow justified his running into the arms of another for comfort. Meanwhile, I have years worth of cards and letters, eloquently written, telling me what a wonderful wife I was and how lucky he was to be married to me. What the hay?

      • CIR, the X said, three times, that there were things that he refused to discuss with me. I never once asked him what they were or why he didn’t want to discuss them. I guess he wanted me to give a shit about his issues, who the hell knows why he kept bringing it up.

      • This was my exact experience as well. It felt good to throw that several-inch-thick stack of cards, notes, and love letters into the trash once I ended bogus reconciliation.

        • Me too, VH! How I was a good woman for putting up with him for all these years! For being a wonderful and beautiful wife! I’m sure he meant it on some level but his actions spoke louder than his words.

      • I have stacks of cards, too, telling me how lucky he is to be married to me, etc. Now I know it is because of cake.

      • Oh yeah. His answer to why I had a box full of beautifully written cards over the span of fourteen years?

        “Well, I might have wanted to mean the first few years, but for the rest, I had to write something.”

        Thanks again buddy. I love being knocked down and kicked some more.

    • “The similarities I encounter on this blog blow my mind and I find odd comfort in it. This has become my infidelity survivor 12 Step meeting….thank you Chump Lady, and all who share, for my daily dose of sanity.” – Perfectly written for all. Thxs…

    • OMG. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention, as I never realized this before how none of his issues were ever brought up in counselling.

      Funny, how he now goes around telling others how I did nothing but make him feel worthless all the years he was with me. I’m too controlling, too strong, too emasculating.

      Yet, 15 hours of MC from March to July of 2017, after about three years of begging him talk to a professional. A couple’s therapy weekend, another 16 hours. And, a few more hours in November. Not once did he raise these issues.

      He’ll be the first to preach that MC doesn’t work. It only makes things worse. Sure, he tried. He did everything he could too. But, what he won’t tell you is how he was still in contact and/or seeing the other woman the whole time. Nor will he admit that he was lying about the nature of the affair (yes it was sexual). He’s not even honest about the timeline in having met her.

      But hey, he had grievances in this marriage and he knew he just “couldn’t talk to me about it because I am who I am and I won’t change.”

  • He had me at “with only loving intentions.”
    Excuse me while I vomit.

    “I hope his lights up the night and his dick dissolves.” Hahahaha NSC that was hilarious!

  • Reading this self serving crap makes me want to
    vomit! He’s a cheating loser that you should be rid
    of as soon as possible.

    You deserve so much better. Stay strong & know we’ve
    all been there. Your life will improve once the sociopath
    is gone! 👍🏻❤️

  • OMG. This is the same as what I received…almost word for word!

    Well, let me tell you what happens if you *do* respond. In the beginning when I was still under the spell, I responded to something like this with honesty and respect and yes, you guessed it, it led to mindfuckery.

    Later I would never respond – he would just continue and worse, increase the stakes (couldn’t contact me through electronic means, showed up at my neighborhood bar 1 block from my house, yikes!).

    Finally, I responded with “leave me alone or I will go to the police and get yourself some help”. Want to to know what happened then, hmm? Flip! The rage channel! How dare I imply that there may be something wrong with him, that he may be violating boundaries, and impose consequences.

    Don’t buy the bullshit, just like CL says, he’s the same man who deceived, betrayed, endangered you…he does not care about you or your well-being. All he cares about is himself. Keep the no contact and document everything. Get the police involved if need be.

    It gets better, but not with him in your life.

    • It’s in the Cheater Handbook, Chapter 9: How to Bamboozle your STBX into a Better Settlement (for you!) and Contribute to your (false) Impression as a Nice Person.

      • The X did that to me last week. Said I didn’t have to pay for this lawyer, despite the stipulation in the decree, only to pop it on me in our house closing on Friday. Yep, I got stuck paying for 1/2 of a divorce that I didn’t want. And yes, he still strives to be the nice guy to everyone that doesn’t know about the cheating. His line is the marriage failed. No, he failed to be a good husband or even a good person.

    • “Well, let me tell you what happens if you *do* respond. In the beginning when I was still under the spell, I responded to something like this with honesty and respect and yes, you guessed it, it led to mindfuckery.

      Later I would never respond – he would just continue and worse, increase the stakes (couldn’t contact me through electronic means, showed up at my neighborhood bar 1 block from my house, yikes!).”

      Ah yes, the extinction burst. Call it boundary testing if it makes it more relatable but ultimately, they will do the same shit but bigger, louder and possibly with fireworks to get you to tango, dammit.

      Instead, you go waltzing away and they do NOT like it. You WILL tango with them again. You will NOT change the narrative, the music or the outcome.

      So they go nuts trying to get you to tango. If your back and knees are still up to it (mine aren’t) do some breakdancing. Or scare the crap out of them and let it be known that you’re training in MMA. That makes them leery.

      But the all-important #1 rule is DO NOT RESPOND. You’ve told them once that communication is limited to minor children and everything else is to be addressed to your attorney. After that ONE time, don’t tell them to leave you alone because that simply restarts the shot clock.

      They didn’t respect you enough in the past but they damn well will in the future.

      • I was chumped as the other woman. These narcissists just assume in their sub-conscience that we will keep their cheating secret. I ended it when I found out. He kept up contact as I was NC and told him to LEAVE ME ALONE OR I WILL TELL YOUR LIVEWITH IN HER HOUSE THAT YOU CHEATED ON HER. He didn’t and I did. Certified letter, signed receipt and concrete evidence-pix of all his clothes on a chair, unmade bed in the background and his gun in the holster she had made from some quilted fabric on top of his clothes-my condign plan to chump him, taken the day I ended it with the full knowledge of his manipulation-this would be a lie to lie, to lie and caught like the rat he is, in the trap. One regret-that I wasn’t invisible.

    • “I responded to something like this with honesty and respect and yes, you guessed it, it led to mindfuckery.”

      Why they hate “no contact,” which is “no manipulation or mindfuckery.”

      • Ask your attorney about cyberstalking laws in your state, having the attorney write Cheaterpants a “do not contact her, only contact me” letter, citing the anticyberstalking/unwanted e-mail laws, threatening a restraining order, and if it gets to the restraining order . . the attorney will ask him to pay the attorney fees, and the attorney will ask the court to order a psychological evaluation because he is obsessed with you/has problems complying with restraining order.

        Then, change your cell phone # ($15 with my carrier) and get new email address.

        When he finds another source of kibble supply, he will have a new person to manipulate and replace you.

  • So nice to start Monday off with a good laugh CL. I hope you know we are laughing with you not at you.

    Two things. First, He has it half right “I am sorry you feel that way”, but he doesn’t get the I caused it and I need change my shitty ways and repent.

    Second, he wants you to keep the email for all the emergencies of your 21 and 19 year old children. Yeah, like, who is picking them up at daycare and who is going to take them to the doctor when they have fevers? Just WTF?

    You have his number, sorry you have a high conflict divorce to look forward to.

    • Ha ha @FeelingIt – my thoughts exactly on the need for emergency contact for those adult children. My oldest two (15 and a very mature 12) do most of the communicating with their father on their own. And given his own inability to drop the narcissistic approach with them, does not see the 15 year old at all and has the 12 year old begrudgingly only heading over there for dinner (because he bought a house two blocks away) and then racing right back. She goes because it’s easier than to deal with his pity play. My 15 year old son does not go at all since they can’t seem to not end up violently dealing with each other since his narc dad flips on the rage whenever challenged over just about anything (last time it was a dropped glass of juice). 😑

    • For emergencies? Like the time you sent us to the emotional ICU by having affairs? In my case, I was taking care of our daughter while he was lying to us and fucking a Craigslist hookup in a hotel….he has forfeited his position on my call list for emergencies, he who intentionally created the Lord God King of family emergencies.

      • So true, what can fuckwit possibly do that is relevant in the case of an emergency especially if he is off in the Bahamas or some other faraway location fucking his whore. Moral support? He, has no morals.

        • D20 and D22 both changed their emergency contact to me. They both told X this, and of course she was butt-hurt.

          I did not tell them to do this. They both experienced her blowing them off, cancelling plans, and generally poor response to their texts, needs, etc. X is there for fun and guilt-spending only.

          They have realized which parent is the sane one and the one who will be there for them when the chips are down. I am honored and proud to be that parent.

          • Yep, we had “emergencies”, like the time my 4 year old broke his elbow slipping on ice and their dad failed to show up to look after the baby whilst I took him to A & E until late on a Friday evening. He was out drinking… “his arms not really broken is it??”

  • Dear Chief,
    AND ,YOU, ARE THE CHIEF,
    The only thing you “did wrong” in this marriage is saying I DO to this creep!
    You are strong,
    You are Mighty!
    So happy you found CL, CN.
    Stay the course.
    Stay Mighty!
    👍👏🙌👌

  • So glad for UBT. The X basically said the same thing only he added that I wasn’t to blame but you know I was unhappy. He made a point of saying that, twice.

    They fucked up (literally and figuratively) but they want us to share the blame for the death of the marriage. The X tried to lay his cheating at my feet and after a couple of weeks when my head could reason just a bit more, I informed him that the cheating is 100% on his shoulders and I didn’t care how he tried to rationalize it to his family, friends or himself.

    Trust that they suck, trust that they suck, trust that they suck…and yes, they really do.

  • Ahh, it never ceases to amaze me how these horrible excuses for human beings all follow the same worn out script… as if the pathetic excuses they’ve crafted are somehow unique and oh so believable. Among other things, my serial cheating XH of 40 years also tried to pawn that “WE messed up“ shit sandwich on me. Sorry, Honey, hold the ketchup.

    Sadly, my sister contacted me 2 weeks ago and told me that her husband of 30 years just dumped her. I was not at all surprised when she told me about his parting words… “I need space” and “We have nothing in common” and “I’ve been unhappy for a long time” and the classic “ILYBINILWY”… yeah yeah, whatever asshole, we all know the drill. I guess my Neanderthal BIL thought it was time to follow in his younger brother’s footsteps… 3 years ago, that moron dumped his own wife of 25 years (and 4 kids).

  • This. Is. Exactly. What the cheater said to me. Omg.
    “I want to help you….”. Don’t mind the assistant I am fucking behind door number 2.
    After 23 years, three kids, 2 houses, 2 successful career earners, and 2 affairs and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Narcissistics do what narcissists do.

    Do they have a fucking playbook?

    Tracy you are always spot on and got me through some pretty ugly times.

    Thank you.

    • They actually do have playbooks, many, online. I don’t recommend reading them unless you are pretty meh. They are disgusting.

  • If I didn’t know better I’d swear my STBX wrote this!

    I’ve become quite skilled in identifying the pattern.

    -State obvious emotion
    -Disregard obvious emotion by attacking it not being within the bounds of reason.
    -Throw in a veiled insult, implying said emotion/response is immature.
    (Why can’t you be cheater level reasonable? It’s probably because you don’t love yourself. See… all of this is because of YOUR inadequacy! I love being condescending- it makes me look better than you!)
    -Throw in something about how your behavior isn’t in the interest of the kids, then immediately veil it with a generic compliment.
    Bonus! It’s great evidence in court to show how generous they are, and of course how immature you are, not having the kids best interest at heart and all. What if there were an emergency! Gasp!
    – If you are the kind that doesn’t pick up on subtle hints, let me go ahead and throw in the word my earlier insult was alluding you aren’t … mature.
    – I am human and flawed, that’s okay. Your flaws on the other hand are horrendous, and I don’t even know how you function with all your dysfunction. #winning.

    • LOL, it really is a formula isn’t it? Mine likes to add in assumptions he’s made about my state of mind for going no contact…”I guess you feel this is the only way you can mentally get through this…” HA! No sir, but it is my preferred way mother fucker.

  • Oh sweet goodness CL and the UBT! I’m glad you got a good rest because that well oiled machine came back ready to rock and roll.

    “Here’s a kibble. Fetch! You are a good wife appliance.” I snorted my coffee in my office with this one.

    And Chief, good for you for seeing through the thick fog of bullshit with this one. It’s crafted to appear like he cares and wants to help and we both made mistakes. And this site really helped me see there was nothing unique about Dr. Cheaterpants and our 20 years together. It finally opened my eyes that infidelity was just another manifestation of his self centered, entitled arse.

    I tried a Divorce Recovery workshop about a year after divorce and having been on CL site. The speaker presented the ‘we’re all flawed and brought issues to a marriage, what were yours you need to work on?” and the small group leader I had was a fella that was on his 5th marriage (not a typo) and said he’d finally got it right, he’d been both the cheater and the cheated upon in his previous 4 marriages. I never went back, it was all I could do not to get up and walk out the door. How horrendous for the rest of the divorcees to get this drivel. I wanted to tell them, run! Go find CL and buy that book ‘Leave a cheater, gain a life’!

  • “We both did several things wrong in our marriage and I’m not going to rehash anything as I want you to find peace and love yourself as you should.” This is the giveaway line where his mindset becomes clear. It’s the old false equivalency nonsense. I fucked around on you and risked your health and possibly your life but you… you also did bad things like … failing to hang my shirts facing the correct direction in the closet (yep, that was one of my own “failings” as pointed out by asshat ex) or that time you got pissed because I dropped my dirty underwear on the floor RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE LAUNDRY BASKET for the 10,000,000 time and expected you to pick it up (also one of my many failings as a wife appliance). In fact, in your cheater’s mind, your failings were so extreme, so horrendous that he can’t even mention them for fear you will not be able to live with the shame and sorrow of the multitude of ways you made him suffer which of course, caused him to cheat. So really, it’s all YOUR fault, he’s just very sweetly accepting a teeny, tiny portion of the blame simply to make you feel a bit better about yourself. He’s nice like that. : | In the meantime, he’s just keep steamrolling over your boundaries (like NC) because he knows he’s right and you’re wrong. As always.

    Chief, my kids were almost the same ages as yours when DDay #2 hit. Don’t make the mistake I did and hedge on the reason for the divorce. You don’t have to tell them the gory details but make it clear that he was cheating and that sex trade workers were involved which risked your health. They are old enough to understand what that means and they are old enough to understand that actions have consequences. Ask them to respect your desire not to communicate with their father unless and until it is YOUR decision to do so. You are doing a great job getting yourself free of that fuckwit. Divorce sucks but life on the other side is wonderful.

    • “You don’t have to tell them the gory details but make it clear that he was cheating and that sex trade workers were involved which risked your health. ”

      ^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

      Don’t lie and cover up for him either or your kids will regard BOTH of you as liars. You can’t lie and protect them and not have it splash back on you. They are both adults and should be told at least that much. Cheaters will happily control the narrative. Before you know it, you KNEW about it all along, encouraged him, etc.

      They need to know you take cheating very seriously.

      • Exactly NSC!! The biggest mistake I made after I threw him out was telling the kids that we separated to “work on the marriage” and “there was no third parties involved.” In my defense, I wholeheartedly believed at that point that we would stay together and I didn’t want the kids or anyone else to think badly of him. I was a complete Chump, what can I say?? 😀 Hiding the truth like that allowed the fuckwit to drive the narrative with the kids behind my back and he played it to the hilt – he was a poor, sad sausage who who loved his family and if his bitter bunny wife would just stop holding a grudge about those 10+ strippers he banged… (not that he mentioned the stripper banging part to the kids, just the bitter bunny part). It took my son giving me one too many “poor dad” speeches and I blasted out the truth. It would have saved my son months and months of mindfucking from his dad if I had just been honest from the beginning and I probably would have handled the way I told my son the truth much better than I did when I was angry and fed up.

        • Beth,
          I always look up to you and respect you.
          If my kids had been older at DDay time, I truly believe I would have done what you did, spare them the pain, but eventually explode if they had gone on about how wonderful their poor sad sausage Dad was. As it was, at the time, one was tiny, one not even born yet. So I built a shield around them, and, to this day, they do not know of their Dad’s affair, (but they have lived with his narcisstic personality).
          It speaks out so loud on CN, the love Chumps have for their children. Chumps always put them first.
          Chumps are basically good, kind, loving people who have had their hearts ripped out by a cheater.
          Sadly cheaters possess none of these human qualities.
          You done good Beth! Stand proud!
          I am glad your kids know the whole truth.
          Always with love to you,
          peacekeeper

          • Oh Peacekeeper, you are such a gem of a human being! I would have done the same if my kids had been little. It’s bad enough that they have to cope with a narc. They don’t need to know the whys and hows of what happened in your marriage at that age. Plenty of time for that later on when they are able to process the information. It’s enough that they have you loving them and showing them how to human.

            Love you back, Peacekeeper!

        • Angry and fed up. Yup. I have mentioned this before but my kids didn’t find out about the infidelity by being told in a controlled and calm way, they found out when daughter overheard Mom yell at Dad “I want back every penny you spent on other women!” I so wish that had been different. It was only when she found out that he also came clean with the boys. They go the more controlled version but alas, they got the controlled version from Dad because I was too ashamed of my outburst to participate.

          • I give us all a pass on how we handled things. We just had our lives blow up in our faces. It’s not surprising we didn’t handle it as calmly or rationally as we might have liked. Hopefully our kids will understand that. Honestly, I wish I had calmly and rationally kicked his ass out on DDay #1, four years earlier but I was too busy pick me dancing to be calm and rational about anything. 🙂

            • When someone puts a red-hot branding iron on your body, mind, heart, spirit, and soul while nuking your world after pouring gasoline all over it and throwing on a match after sentencing you to suffer who knows how long from one of the most painful psychological injuries imaginable, PLEASE don’t ever apologize for however you reacted. EVER. If they are alive after you found out, you get an A+ .

        • I learned how to tell small children about xw’s adultery here and at my other goto support site.
          Beth

          CL addressed an “age appropriate” explanation in her book.. I’m glad she did.

          My biological daughter and Son- both adults- were brought together closer throughout this horror show BTW. Talking over what happened and mutually supporting me and each other. All our ‘patchwork quilt family’ (xw words) are adults so they got the undiluted truth very early on after xw moved in with Camperboy. I made sure to ask them before I spilled the beans if they truly wanted to know they had to tell me first…Before I unloaded it. It was cathartic for everyone and cleared the air very quickly. They processed it and moved on…much faster than I could.

          I recently visited my Granddaughter and stayed a few days with my son (‘in-law’), his wife and his MIL. I needed to be the sane adult and let them know we are still family. Nothing changes that. We had a great time together.

          MY SON and I had planned a concert for her with Dad and Grandpa Only. We get to dote on her together. FUN FAMILY activity. We’re developing her love for music and introducing her to really good musicians complete with meet n greets. She’s sight reading guitar music now. I hope she takes hold of this ‘hobby’ for the rest of her life.

          Any Road,… I hadn’t spoken with her privately about xw before this time. Her parents already had ‘the discussion’ with her. I knew GD would want to talk to me privately one day about it. I thought on what I’d say and visualized our interaction on the drive up and Also throughout the past year.

          I basically told her that her grandmother had made a promise to me that she would not have anymore boyfriends and she broke her promise to me. I was very calm when she asked me about her grandmother, she accepted my explanation and understood everything on ‘her level’ . She astoundingly told me…paraphrased…What! is she crazy?

          xw calls her granddaughter very infrequently- if at all. IMAGE Management. Maintain SHINY Narrative.

          I was also advised early on that I should tell my adult kids it’s OK that they changed their minds and decide to have a relationship with x. That I would not take it personally if my son, Or my biological daughter wants to talk to his mother. I think they’re both Done with x.
          xw was PsyOps-abusive to them both growing up while fucking about. That is an adult decision they both have to make.

          • I’m glad it went well for you and your kids. That’s what really matters. I too had the “it’s okay to have a relationship with your dad” talk with my kids. My son does have a very limited relationship with his dad. Mainly a text message or email now and then. Not my business. My son is 26. He can decide for himself how much contact he wants. He and I have a solid relationship. Nothing his dad says or does can damage it at this point. My daughter has no contact with her dad at all and hasn’t for about 3 years now. Again, it’s her call. I could have handled it better, certainly but ultimately, my kids are doing great and so I am and that’s all I care about. Sounds like you and yours are much the same. Cheers!

  • We…ended the minute he started to make unilateral decisions.
    Our….a sperm doner moment and includes the assets the OW used bolts to screw in tightly. She after all wants what’s yours.

    ME, Me and Me….there’s no we or our….it’s alway about me.

    Don’t involve adult children. These are all manipulations used as distractions. Keep your head in following the assets, his spending and hire a forensic accountant. Let him see and feel that little ol’ appliances just recieved a UBT tuneup and purr like a baby kitten.

    You have a support system now Chief. Stay the course and get a great settlement.

  • It’s textbook hoovering!
    He’s losing the wife appliance. What?! No drama!? No way for him to create some scandal and make you look crazy? No reaction from you???
    Bravo Chief!
    Lucky you, your children are grown.

  • Chief,

    Sigh….. Just the address changes. Amazing. I got a VERY similar BS email from Lord sparkledick, with added pearls like:
    “I never thought we wouldn’t be playing together with our grandchildren ” (I was a chump for longer than you, Chief. There were several co-workers).

    “I never thought we would have to divide our assets”.

    “Don’t you miss your Little Bug even a LITTLE?” (I have since learned how to use a drill… and my gardener opens mayonnaise jars for me now)

    sparkles would huff and puff in anger and rage when I would confront him and exclaim, half joking: “You must have a hidden family! Where is our money going?! What are we doing wrong with our finances?!”
    His reply: “you lazy thing, you can’t even get a bank statement, so don’t complain”.

    Last, but not least, he recruited our grown sons to complain to me that I shouldn’t be refusing to answer his phone calls. MY answer was: your father learned to read and write, he can email if he has something useful to say.

    • If you have a stubborn mayo lid: Take a table knife, hold it by the blade. Using the handle, rap sharply on the lid, all the way around. This will break the contact. Opens easily.

      Ta Dah!!

  • Chief, if you’re reading this, I’m sorry. That’s one slick operator right there. He is really trying to manipulate you. Good for you for ignoring him and all his new e-mail addresses.

  • True story:
    He was at the house recently and there was a hammer and chisel which I left overnight on the deck near the front door. I had been using them to eradicate the heart with our initials that he had drawn in the cement when we had our driveway redone a couple of years ago. (The same husband who recently told me he had been unhappy for years). He told me he wanted to put the tools away in case some deranged person came to the front door! He was afraid our daughter and I would be attacked! I told him we had already been attacked by some far more deranged people….him and his cheating partner.
    More proof to use my breath in sane people. What I really want to know is how did I not see this shit sooner?!! I think my anxiety is about the shattered trust I feel in MYSELF….?

  • My cheater ex said, “we’ve both been through so much trauma with the divorce”. If you cause the trauma do you suffer? Maybe -if there are serious consequences put into action -but what I experience and see here is that for these dirtbags neither their actions nor the consequences that result are ever their fault so your ONLY hope for peace is no contact or grey rock (for those of us with kids).

    • I had a therapist (the woman we used to access the kids wants and desires) mention when we were in the room together that ex was suffering too. I don’t doubt that, but I do feel that he kind of did that to himself. His choices are what led to his suffering then and now and he is still making similar choices so he really hasn’t learned anything.

    • “If you cause the trauma do you suffer?”

      If you’re wearing your seatbelt and have a working airbag and drive the car into a bridge support, after disabling Chump’s airbag and unbuckling the belt you may suffer some damage, but not as much as the Chump and any other passengers!

      So, sure. Yeah. Some. But not nearly as much trauma as Chump and any kids are going to endure.

    • Either way, you have the trauma of the divorce AND the trauma of the affair(s), so you definitely “win” that one-up!

  • The best thing I ever did was go NO CONTACT. This is the only way to your better life. The disordered are sick and entitled and incapable of understanding “what went wrong” and their mindfucking ways are used to abuse you. So the healthiest thing you can do is go NO Contact and ignore all the crap coming from your ex. Be sure your divorce is moving through the family court, Cheaters will use that waiting period to dissipate assets. If he can focus your attention on what you did wrong then perhaps you won’t catch on to his financial infidelity as well. Refinancing the house to pull equity out is one trick, as is purchasing big ticket items, messing with pensions, and dumping savings accounts. Many of the disordered leave when their children are in college because they don’t want to pay. Life, after all, is all about what they want. Yes, your stbx is not original at all.

    • Very true Drew. When shit hit the fan – my oldest was 17. My two oldest kids were aware of the shit my exhole was pulling and decided they weren’t going to tell me about it until my youngest was done with HS. Well – I think it really got to my middle child and he told me (after he got out of the mental hospital). Anyway – when I confronted asswipe and heard all the normal blameshifting (we haven’t been happy in years, we are just room mates, ILYBINILWY, etc….) I asked then if things were bad for so long then why the hell didn’t he divorce me a long time ago? His response was because he didn’t want to have to pay child support.
      And I also experienced the other shit you listed…. cashing in his ROTH behind my back, buying SHIT, his checking account suddenly dwindling down to hardly anything….
      Assholes

      • The hardest thing for our adolescents to wrap their heads around is that fucked up narrative all cheaters vomit; it really messes with our children’s heads because if you are like me your ex skipped off happily to pursue his true love, leaving everything behind. He left the kids with me, granted my youngest was 17 too. Now they are all in their mid twenties and it’s been almost ten years since FucktardX blew up our lives, and his actions have had a profound affect on all three. My son spectacularly failed out of college his first year, while my daughter (a junior) scrambled financially to keep attending the private school who had given her an academic scholarship that covered 3/4 of her tuition. Financial aid offices at the best schools are great, other schools not so much. My youngest, a senior in HS, was at the time applying to colleges and her father was…gone. How a parent can do this to their own child still has me shaking my head. I mean, who the fuck does this?!?! I was so blindsided, we all were, and afraid, the more I discovered of his double life the more concerned I became so of course his behavior had me in fight and flight mode. So after two and a half years in the family court fighting, with a house going into foreclosure, three kids in college, and a long distance move imminent, when it came time to move our stuff out (28 years+ together), I continued to work while my youngest packed up the house. Not my best moment. FucktardX showed up to watch, and my Dad spoke to him. Like, wtf??? My family can laugh about it now but nothing about X’s actions will ever have me opening the door to any kind of relationship with him. I treat him like the ghost he is.

      • How sincere of the liar!
        Of course he didn’t want to pay child support! None of them wants.
        Which makes the 50-50 shared custody such a farse!

  • I haven’t posted here in a long time, but today’s post….. wow. Word for word, it’s almost exactly the things my ex messaged me, at least, in the beginning. Nothing but subtle blame and manipulation. I kind of laughed at all the bullshit written by the dude in this letter; just like my ex, he pretends he is a good person who only wants the best for the OP. Of course, what he really wants is the OP to go easy on him in the divorce.

    Eventually, of course, my ex’s channel turned to pure rage and on the (thankfully rare) occasions I hear from him now, it’s a mix of blame, self-pity, rage, and mind fuckery. I’m sure the OP here will experience the same eventually. That’s how the disordered roll.

    Pretty much the only apology my ex ever gave was, “I’m sorry you feel that way,” which of course, is not only NOT an apology, but is actually blame and accusation.

  • Just want to add that the disordered always make it out that the chump is equally to blame for the cheating/end of the marriage. Always. I was told multiple times that, “We both are to blame,” “I know I did things wrong but so did you,” and “I know you think you were a good wife and I was a bad husband but it’s not that simple.” (Yes, it actually WAS that simple.)

    My ex ADMITTED to having sex with hundreds of strange men in gay bath houses, to say nothing of multiple affairs with married women. This went on our entire 20-year marriage, even from our dating days. My terrible failings that were equal to his astonishing level of cheating? According to him, I:
    Didn’t like listening to Christmas music
    Didn’t want to play board games often enough
    Never went with him to his 5 AM exercise class
    Wasn’t an “extension” of him

    Beyond that, he himself said I had been a good wife who took excellent care of him, our home, and our son. Still, when it came down to the bottom line, he truly felt I was the bad person who was just as much — really more — to blame as he was for the end of that nightmarish marriage. I can only imagine how reality has twisted in the years since our divorce; by now, I’m sure he tells people that I was the cheater and a terrible, abusive person.

    I thank God that I’m free of him.

    • Maybe it’s because I’m not a cheater or have a cheater mentality, I’m still dumbfounded that cheaters stay married and continue on with their affairs/hook-ups/whatever. Why not stay unmarried and carry on doing whatever makes them happy? Or, get divorced early before years of history and children come into the picture? I just don’t get it.

      • Because being married means having someone to look after your basic needs and strive to make you happy. Plus, it gives an aura of stability and responsibility that is attractive in society, the workplace, and to affair partners. Cheaters don’t want to have to look after themselves. They want all of the comforts of marriage, with little or no reciprocation.

        • Having just gotten out of an 18 year marriage, I can say that the X had an easy life. All he had to do was work and come home to work out or play in his hunting room. I did all the adulting for 19 years. When I got to where I needed someone to help take care of me and offer some emotional support, he was nowhere to be found. You are so right Survivor.

          • Cheaters are inherently selfish, entitled people. I think everyone in every relationship needs to bring something to the table. If you know someone who comes to the table empty-handed, seats themself at the head of the table, and expects to be served, RUN!

    • You’re right GIO, they ALWAYS portray the chump as equal in the demise of the relationship. My last email from Hannibal Lecher, a year after the divorce (as we were debating who got to claim the children on taxes) was to chastise me for not accepting my role in the decline of the marriage. My faults (according to him)? Cupboard were too full, “hoarding” of children’s toys, clothes that I did not have time to sort through and get rid of (full time job & 90% of the parenting), and “spent too much time on other people”–i.e., our own children & writing too many comments on student papers (my job).

      Totally equivalent to his screwing his students and hooking up with Craigslist skanks, no?

      • I was accused of hoarding. My Christmas gift in 2014 was a trip to Paris. I turned it down because I wanted to stay home and get our house in order. I have a child and my first genie wish would be to put the world on hold so I can have large blocks of uninterrupted time to get rid of things and get my world back in order again. In real life time, I am SO frustrated by the little time I have like that. I don’t think I am a hoarder but I know he likes whores…funny how his toys are ok but ours need to be gotten rid of….

    • I see a Friday Challenge… list the many failings of the Chump that caused the cheating. As I posted above… some of my MANY faults included hanging his shirts facing the wrong way after I did his laundry and getting annoyed at having to pick his crusty underwear off the floor from where he stepped out of them directly in front of the laundry basket. And yes, I got the “you need to own your part in the end of the marriage” speech too. I do own my part. I should’ve ended it four fucking years sooner on DDay #1. I totally own that shit. 🙂

  • “We both did several things wrong in our marriage and I’m not going to rehash anything as I want you to find peace and love yourself as you should.”

    Right before walking out of our home and sending a mass text message to everyone we knew informing them that we had separated, ex told me that there was no point in going to counseling because I “would never change” and he already “loved himself exactly the way he was.”

    The day I moved out of the marital home, I woke up to find a greeting card waiting for me on the kitchen table. He’d written, “Don’t worry about who I may or may not be spending time with in the future.”

    • “ex told me that there was no point in going to counseling because I “would never change” ”

      I got the same BS. He even expanded that to say no one changes. But then later on said that who I was now had changed from who he married. It’s word salad to fit their narrative.

  • STBX told me that it was a thousand little things and a couple of big things. He couldn’t tell me though..it would hurt my feelings. I was married to a two year old.

  • MORE proof of how these idiots can make our heads **Explode** I remember 3 yrs ago going NC during my divorce when xh went nuts. They hate not having us to hide behind. Although they still manage to believe their own lies. The spin becomes “we are crazy, raging, and simply too unstable” to stay in the marriage. UGH, they all make me sick and be prepared for the fight in court and then afterwards their multiple attempts to “be FRIENDS” WTH

  • Thanks for including cheater Giuliani’s classic cheater playbook line (“The truth is not the truth!”) in his defense of cheater Trump. Others may have found yesterday’s interview merely humorous, but those of us in CN who had our own cheaters jump up and down screaming this very same line found it HILARIOUS.

  • Chief,

    That letter is an invitation to triangulation. See, if you’ll just “talk” with him, he’s pretty sure you can be swayed in the divorce negotiations, and/or available to be used more in the future should the need arise, and your ongoing “relationship” can be held over your replacement as an implied threat.

    Just say nothing. Ever. If your adult children have “emergencies,” they know where to find you. You can do this. The last thing on earth that you need is to step back into the crazy zone.

  • OMG! This is me. This is my life to a T. Married for 24.5 years, 3 kids, he had a huge affair that was discovered at the end of 2016. Unfortunately, I was a COMPLETE CHUMP for a whole year and believed and participated in variety of unbelievable BS. I filed end of Nov. 2017 and just received the same message last night. – He has recreated our life story placing himself as the long suffering hero.

  • My ex pulled the same BS when I went NC. Our kids were 17 and 21 at the time. He didn’t even try to contact them for that first six months or so. He did send me me long, rambling texts about how he didn’t do anything wrong, but always threw in that “we both did things” during our marriage, at one point actually saying that he knew I cheated too and that’s when he “stopped feeling love for me.” I have never cheated, he knows this, but to deflect from himself, and his bad behavior, he does the finger pointing and deflection. God I’m glad he’s gone. It’s been over a year now, and he’s starting to reach out to the kids for info. Miserable twat he is.

      • You might want to explain to your kids, friends, and anyone else who is still in contact with the freak that your information is now private and not to be shared with the ex. Your whereabouts, contact info, and activities are shared only on a need to know basis, and he has no need to know. Sheesh.

        • I contend that may be antithetical to the all-coveted “meh.” Let them tell him, and let her not care one F if he knows. What’s he gonna do with the information? And, kids aside, it’s a decent litmus test to see who is a loyal person to you or not, cause no loyal person spills your beans to your ex, ever. And loyalty matters.

          There are anti-harrasment statutes for spouses in most states, I encourage Chief to look into those if his inquiries and communications jump past just temporarily annoying. But, with no contact, he will fade away. Right now he’s looking down the barrel of losing half his stuff and his primary cake-feeder…so he’s spinning. He’ll stop spinning and hopefully go away. If not, that’s what those statutes are meant for. You slap a restraining order on most guys like this, that’ll give him a fat reality check.

          • NANC, I can tell you first hand. I was stalked. My new undisclosed home had three break in attempts I could document. When I went to move away, I was home when another break in occurred. It was my ex and his new student/soul mate. I don’t know what they wanted, and I did not care. I ran them off.

            But no one would say that they told him where I was. I moved, forwarded the mail to a PO drop, garaged my car, and never went anywhere he might be. Someone said where I was or he would not be at my door with a crowbar and a getaway car. I think it was my housekeeper of nine years. He snowed her with some bs about not writing down my address or something similar. I gave her a large raise before I moved so he would have to match it.

            So your advice is not good for all situations. “Let them tell him?” NO. Tell them NOT to do that. What’s he gonna do with the information? Really bad shit, if he wants to.

            • And by the way, I did shut it down. By moving to another city, and going NC with anyone still in contact with the asshole. In time, I learned to sleep again.

      • Oh yeah. Shut that down. I don’t know how it works in your jurisdiction, but don’t date without your lawyer giving you the nod. Or at least don’t let anyone know you are dating if your STBX could use it against you in court somehow. Some of the more spiteful ones will drag the divorce proceedings out FOREVER in order to keep you dangling on a string.

        The less they know, the better.

        I hope your divorce is finalized soon, Chief!

        • I can’t think of a state where dating while separated poses any real problem in settlements, especially with grown children. However, fuckwits like this guy will certainly put up ridiculous court battles. They can’t not, they’re sense of righteousness and entitlement demands them to. However, her dating should be irrelevant to any court.

      • Chief, he is trying to gather info to use against you! Beware and be careful! Just as I thought he tried being nice and that didn’t work. Anyone you suspect wants to play both sides or you suspect of giving him info stay away from. If you are dating keep that very quite and make sure he is,not following you or trying to get info from your kids! Please keep your eyes and ears open.

  • Grr. What a COMPLETE ASS! Mr. Good Guy talking down to her —Pukage! These holier than thou one’s in particular get to me for some reason.

  • Beautiful Chump Lady. I would just add an emphasis on his “caring, (mutual) blame, sad sausage” let’s talk, call of the lawyer bullshit/mindfuck…that it is directly aimed at keeping “His” a$$et$. No where does he even pretend to love you or want to be with you…(not that you’d care at this point). *NO CONTACT*. The stuff about the offspring is BS. You have to cut it off…he never will.

    • PS:
      He is cancer. Just think of him that way.
      If you haven’t ever read the story of the frog and the scorpion, do.
      NO CONTACT. EVER.

  • Wow, this ridiculous message sounds *exactly* like my ex’s preferred word choice and writing patterns. I heard much of this same crap verbatim, and sometimes still do. My favorite was when our son was visiting him a few weeks ago and my ex thought that our son wasn’t listening very well. He asked if this is a regular thing (uh, yeah, he’s a kid) and if I thought it might be because our son “wasn’t living in the moment.” Um, he’s 6. I assure you that 6-year-olds are masters of living in the moment. But it was an interesting insight into how quickly he dismisses challenges as the other person’s failure to embody his perceived values.

    • Oh god yes. The kids did not come out of the womb as perfect little adults and that is because of my poor parenting skills. When he spent two years as a SAHD and they still didn’t shape up that was my fault too for not properly backing him up instead of just staying out of his way. Of course I was still giving the kids too much of my attention. He still resents me for not having four kids instead of three. I guess if we had four I would have had more time for him and that fourth one would have lived up to his expectations.

      In the end he left me for a woman with five children who always do what she says. Yes, she is a tyrant who gets compliance (at least when she is paying attention), but it doesn’t seem that her kids turned any better than ours and they were rather withdrawn and sullen the few times that I met them.

    • Standard projection of a narcissist. Sadly, our kids will need to learn the coping skills required to grow into maturity with a parent like this. I work with my 10 year old on this alot, anticipating my ex’s future attacks on her sense of self as she dares to differentiate from him or, gasp, disagree with him.

  • “love yourself as you should”. Yeah well it’s hard to do that when you are living with someone who is supposed to love you and doesn’t and is constantly letting you know how inadequate you are in subtle and not so subtle ways. it’s when they are gone that we finally have a chance to start doing that.

    My ex told me before DDay that I needed to have more self confidence. I responded with “you have a role to play in that you know”. Ultimately, I guess that is up to me, not him, but he was certainly doing his best to make it worse not better. I had confidence once and I have more now than I did before he left.

    • My X told me he was attracted to gradwhore because she was perky and not beaten down. I responded, “yeah, kind of like me when you first met me.”

      • The Fucktard wanted a much younger me as well, but one who was edgier and would accept his open marriage ideal. I wonder if he bothered to tell her about that before she said “I do”?

      • “Of course she is. It takes a lot more time with you to beat down the perky in us!”

  • Chief, guaranteed his lawyer told him to try to butter you up. He goes back to talking about court. That is the real reason. Also, he is blaming you and not admitting to anything which is more lawyer talk. You handed it right from the beginning so keep it up. Your kids are adults so there is nothing to talk about. Anything needs to be said have him go through your lawyer. Be on your guatd! He tried the nice way and when he sees it won’t work he will probably get nasty. Please be on those finances.

    • I actually thought he was probably going against his lawyer’s advice in contacting her. I don’t know an attorney who would tell a client to do that once the other party has asserted their right to counsel, especially considering the uncontrollable outcome of such communication.

      Like I posted below, these fuckers feels so entitled to your attention and time, and want at all costs to be able to manipulate you to their will. When you cut that off they go into a tail spin for a minute. I suspect his attorney told him what her retainer would be for her services moving forward and Mr. Cheater thought “ah fuck, I better get the ole lady to talk to me or shit’s gonna get expensive.” Yes buddy, it’s expensive sometimes being an asshole.

  • Chief,
    I couldn’t agree more, CL and this site are invaluable in regaining sanity and learning the reality of how warped cheaters are.
    Thanks for sharing.

  • All these fuckers want to circumvent the legal or quasi-legal divorce process because they know how well they can manipulate you in private. My ex was/is the same. Doesn’t understand why we can’t just “hash it out” together, felt even mediation was unnecessary, and never has stopped trying to get me in a room alone to get what he wants. Good for you for erecting that boundary early and often. It took me a while. I can’t go total no contact cause we have a minor child but through months of dedicated non-responsiveness he has at least stopped texting me about anything unless it directly relates to our daughter. The emails still pop up, though less and less as there are fewer divorce items to resolve.

    But, when it comes to getting what they want, they are hard wired for mass manipulation. Oddly enough, lots of these folks are emotionally bereft and not great at reading others, so it’s cracked me up lately what my ex thinks will get me to go his way. Like, if he tells me that I was the “lesser partner” so I deserve less than half our stuff, that will somehow make me come around to his way of thinking?!? Actually dude, it just pisses me off now.

      • Yes, and I should say that it made me less angry and more just exhausted…like…really man?!? Just give it up pal. But these people usually put things in a way that give them plausible deniability. When, in a formal back-and-forth with our mediator, I said that his unfounded opinion of me as the lesser partner was irrelevant cause we live in a community property state so I get half, he got all “THAT’S NOT WHAT I MEANT” about it, and began to spin his alternate reality. And you just gotta take it, cause often times it’s their word against yours that they were trying to insult you.

        And this is why you don’t mediate with a manipulator. In hindsight I would not have done that, and true to form, some of the stuff is gonna end up in court cause when narcissists believe they are right and entitled to something, no one, not even their own attorney, can convince them otherwise and it will take a judge slapping an order on them to behave properly.

        • Exactly. Just be prepared to do a lot of deep breathing before you go into the courtroom and see them smiling at you before their attorney claims you have No Right to Anything. I cried, and hated myself for that. The exact words were, “My client does not thing That Woman deserves anything!” Right. That woman who nursed you when you were sick, supported you when you were unemployed, handled every detail you thought beneath you, paid the mortgage. Why would anyone expect better after 16 years?

    • They all like that word “hash”. Sorry dude; should have been “hashing it out” inside the marriage. Now you don’t want to “rehash” the marriage issues that you never “hashed” but you want to “hash out” the divorce issues? You forfeited your “hashing” , “rehashing” , and “hashing it out” chits when you stepped out of the marriage. Hash off.

  • These fucking people and their bullshit apology letters. “Can’t you be mature?” Oh fuck you, dude. See you in court

    • LOL, right?! The most mature thing Chief can do is cut a toxic person out of her life and let professionals assist her in closing that relationship. But it’s not just the cheaters, lots of well intended folks question no- contact, especially in the age of “conscious uncoupling” and because these fuckwits are so good at impression management and are often seen as “nice.” I’ve had more than one person flippantly say “but, like, you guys can still be friends, right?” Ummmm, no. Nada. Or, if they were able to exit a relationship and stay friendly with their ex they can in no way understand why you can’t. Ummmm, cause my ex is a flaming toxic narcissist and yours is a sad depressive…not the same thing!

      When someone protects themselves, that’s maturity…and intelligence…and work.

      • “Friends don’t abuse you.”
        My husband is now just an associate. We have a child, and for now, a business together. I have to call him something I can use in polite company. (and yes, he has a lot of nicknames for other times).

  • How sincere of the liar!
    Of course he didn’t want to pay child support! None of them wants.
    Which makes the 50-50 shared custody such a farse!

  • Long time reader, first time commentator. This might be the best UB Translation I have encountered so far. And I’m sitting here drinking my wine, cackling over the absolute savage honesty of this posting. “The must endeavor to improve their gullibility on our behalf.” This won the internet.

  • I am new to chumpdom (D day was 3 weeks ago) and when I read this letter and CL’s analysis of it, I felt like I was “home”. This letter could have been written by my (not x soon enough) husband.

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