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Reject the Plan B Offer

notplanB

If things don’t work out with her, perhaps you and I could work things out.

This was in my “Universal Bullshit Translator” requests this morning. This statement is so cake-y and so common. Yeah, right, I want to be Plan B! Thanks for being so bold and out there with it, Cheaterpants.

How many of us have gotten this “offer”? Or its twin brother: “I have to keep an OW/OM because, hey, it might not work out with us!” Followed by the inevitable blameshifting: “Because I don’t know if you can forgive me.”

It’s a keen look into the rancid oatmeal that is Cheater Brain.

People are commodities. You hold on to them, trade, or sell them off like stock. Hmmm, this one is performing well today, but according to my kibble index, the stock may drop, so let’s pick up a couple shares of Stacey.

From the chump’s perspective, the Plan B offer is baffling. Uh, hey fuckwit, you committed to me. It was that marriage ceremony thingy. You know, in front of all our assembled family and friends? See those children over there with half your DNA? They’ve been operating under the assumption that they were the Only Plan.

Oh chumps, you just don’t understand CAKE do you? How delicious, sustaining, and full of kibbles it is. Cheating is a narcissistic act. Narcissists require multiple sources of ego kibbles. Cheating is simply maximizing kibble production by trading one low-performing source of kibbles (you there too focused on your job or children) for higher-performing source (an affair partner unencumbered by reality). Of course, kibbles being the precious commodity that they are, a cheater doesn’t want to shut the kibble mines — so they offer you the awesome opportunity to be auxiliary kibbles! And compete for the chance someday, if you can improve production, to be primary kibbles again.

“If things don’t work out with her, perhaps you and I could work things out” is also illustrative of the cheater’s self view. They really do think they are AWESOME. Don’t you want to get in on this? Of course you want them! Of course you’re pining! Of course you’ll wait!

Because you don’t have any needs, do you? You’re not really a thing are you, beyond kibble producer? I mean, God forbid, you might want the full attentions of a partner. Perish the thought. Partnership — such an ugly word, with its connotations of reciprocity and bonding. A 50-50 split on the kibbles? NEVER! And those sticky-fingered, grubby little children of yours? Kibble thieves!

Look, if you could address those issues (get rid of the kids and their needs, sublimate your ego), maybe it could work out again!

Let’s everyone pass on that offer, thanks.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • *hand up* I got ” if the children don’t take it well then I’ll come back.”
    Yes, that is the level of stupid o was dealing with. What child was going to take a parent abandoning their family ” well”?

    • S*** Mandie that sucks. Everything they do sucks. They have plan A through Z and they love it that way. The only way to ensure any type of self-empowerment is to get the f*** out. You don’t want to be a part of a plan that just has no reasoning or sense or sanity or stability or morality or love or empathy or connection or anything…

      • We need to remember it is not our fault. They choose to objectify humanity and live in la-la land. Be grateful that you have eyes to see. It seems very personal while it’s happening to us. They have no idea what it even means to be intimate. In the end I ended up laughing and feeling sorry for the piece of s*** that tried to destroy my life.

        • He really is a sad clown. I know I’ve been posting a lot lately but some of these posts are striking wisdom and nerves. I swear it is a script and once I took my power back I watched his world fall apart instead of my own. I don’t like hurting people but that was a good feeling. I know this could apply to both genders.

    • of course, an when the kids don’t take it well it will be your fault, or….
      when you refuse to be plan B you’re ruining the children’s lives.
      Hang out here, read and read and read some more, eventually you see the pattern and how unoriginal they all are.
      Here’s to hoping you can get far enough down the line to see it.

      • Oh yeah! According to him , his leaving was my fault. I told him fine I will own it but just leave for Christ sake!
        Maybe he thought he was going to guilt me, but I don’t do guilt and i negotiate with terrorists.

  • Well, when I look at that cartoon ~ it could be me and kids from another marriage that he helped raise. Even the animals that I thought were our furry kids. But the caption ~ Not Plan B, nah ~ that doesn’t fit my situation.

    The caption should probably say, Who are you? I was committed to you for 17 years? Nah, must have been my other brother who escaped from a home.

    Yep, when you are ghosted like you never even existed, it can’t say ~ Not Plan B.

      • So was I. I was the one who didn’t realize that he was unhappy for ten years of a fourteen year marriage. I was such a clueless moron for not seeing how unhappy he was…. especially now that things are “effortless” with the mistress….

        • Ah yes, @Pret. Same stats here. He almost had the Skank moving into a nice big house with her kids and mine, until my daughter found those pesky porn videos she starred in. Sit back and wait for that effortless karma to come. It will.

  • First time Dr Cheaterpants left the kids were 2 & 4 years old. He had the twu wuvs for a twice divorced history of cheating on both husbands nurse. After the family home sold and the kids and I were in our new, comfy smaller home with divorce almost final – he begged back. Ugh what was I thinking?!?!

    He even said a while later he’d really thought I’d let him come back if he’d made a mistake. Face palm 🤦🏼‍♀️

    He was a really shitty husband and father for twelve years before he left again for DD14’s 20-something asst sports coach in our kids’ Catholic high school.

  • Their belief in their own centrality is gobsmacking!!! After making myself and my own needs increasingly smaller, by DDay, I felt sucked dry and invisible. If someone had asked me what foods I liked, or music or films, I couldn’t answer. I just didn’t know any more. My exh’s certainty of his importance, his place in the world and his complete dominion over our family, made me feel like a completely different species to him. Years out from divorce, I’m sure he feels that if he wanted me back there would be no question it would happen.

    • This is so well0said: “After making myself and my own needs increasingly smaller, by DDay, I felt sucked dry and invisible. If someone had asked me what foods I liked, or music or films, I couldn’t answer.”

      And this “incredible shrinking person” experience, I think, explains why so many chumps cling to their abusers. You give up so many parts of your self, your person-hood, that the relationship has come to replace your own life, your own needs. The relationship becomes everything.

      • I realized I was made to feel like such nothing I had stopped typing in capitals when e-mailing or commenting on FB. It was terrifying! Glad you made it to the otherside ozchic

      • Exactly, becoming smaller and having less needs. I used to think of it as being a small animal caught in a trap, and chewing my arm off to escape (removing my needs). So, pretty small by all standards, and unsure if I wanted him back or not, wasn’t sure what I wanted.

      • “And this “incredible shrinking person” experience, I think, explains why so many chumps cling to their abusers. You give up so many parts of your self, your person-hood, that the relationship has come to replace your own life, your own needs. The relationship becomes everything.” This is EXACTLY how I felt for way too long. But I’m over two years out now and have rediscovered that I am a whole, valuable human being. All. By. Myself.

  • This reminds me of something my STBX said about 6 months before I found out about Skankella. He was sitting in the living room and he had a weird look on his face. He said “if we would ever divorce we still would be good friends.” I laughed and said if we ever divorced I would never be his friend.. Through the 4 to 5 years that he was sneaking around he used to randomly ask me if I still loved him. I do not know if it was his guilt or if he was looking for kibbles. Or maybe he just got off on the fact that I was a trusting Chump.

    • Wow. This really stood out to me. Never even thought about it but mine used to ask me if I loved randomly as well.
      It sends a chill through me to reflect back on that – knowing the horrors and deception he was up to possibly just moments after holding out his dirty paw for kibbles.

      I wouldn’t doubt it for a second that many of them get turned on by the deviousness & their “game”.

      • Before DDay and either between Schmoopies or after he started up with Schmoopie 2.0 he expressed concern over whether or not I loved him saying that we didn’t talk enough and “I just don’t know where we stand”. Well we didn’t talk much because he was never around and he was grumpy and irritable whenever he was so I tended to leave him alone. Never the less, my immediate reaction was to assume that our lack of communication was all my fault for retreating instead of engaging and I tried to reassure him that of course I loved him. I did this rather sleepily, however as he made this pronouncement at 3:00am after finally coming to bed. Gosh, I wonder why we didn’t talk much and evidently he knew more about where we stood than I did. Maybe he felt unloved because he knew I had no reason to love him anymore.

        • Sounds so familiar.

          It’s like, wow – you had waaay more information about this sham of a marriage than I did.

        • So I remember his ‘Why aren’t we close anymore’ speech, I got on my knees and crawled over and sang “Darling if you want me to be, closer to you, get closer to me”. What a chump.

          • Kathleen,
            Not a chump – well maybe but not because of that memory. That is actually a sweet scene you shared. You didn’t know you were acting chumpy because you didn’t know you were being chumped. It seems like a cute scene from a rom-com with 2 young lovers who are working out the ebbs and flows of a relationship. This happens with married people who are normal. You didn’t know what you were dealing with or you might have responded differently.
            I respectfully suggest you reframe that memory to show that you are capable of conflict resolution and pointing out what you need. Any normal partner would have become engaged in a meaningful conversation about what you both need but might be lacking at that time.

            • Yes, Fern! YES. We cannot beat ourselves up for offering love, care, intimacy, silliness, and all the other things that come with a HEALTHY partnership. These narcs took advantage of our willingness to be vulnerable and our inclination toward sweet kindness. We are not the ones with a problem because we offered this to people we believed genuinely loved us back.

    • Ugh, yes the constant question I got “do you love me?” “Do you really love me?”

      He would ask, with this weird desperation while searching my eyes as if looking for an answer that he could see. It was weird, and always made me feel like I wasn’t affectionate enough, and no doubt he would later complain that I didnt show enough love. Umm I was busy working a full time career and raising 3 kids with a lousy partner.

      I think he was either cheating since he started asking about my love all the time, or setting up his rationale to start up with his HO-worker.

  • There are so many variations of the plan B for these cheater freaks.

    Mine kept me dangling and dancing for years. Somehow I thought the fact that he hadn’t left ( oh wait – yes he did, but it was disguesded as going ba k to University ) as a sign that we could make the marriage work.

    I think the kids and I were some sort of religious beard. As he did his Master’s of theology he was able to pass as a happily married family man. The good guy!!!

    All the while having an affair with another married student and breaking many of the 10 comanments 😜

    I feel like the family was “of use” until it wasn’t.
    After 10 years of watching what I thought was a mid life crisis – I was done.

    Don’t think the kids and I were plan B. More like plan F. .

  • I think cheaters believe their own hype, they must be deluded. Apparently my exs ow, left her kids, but wanted mine, she told me she wanted to be their auntie, that was and did not happen, you dump your kids for a man (that’s what he called himself). I don’t know about your ex’s ow/om, but she told terrible lies, she is /was always expected sympathy. Your not second best, don’t let people treat you like that.

  • After the affair was revealed he kept asking “when are you going to forgive me”? Since I couldn’t give an exact time or day he decided to cut his losses and move in with the OW. The day he was leaving he said, “I am sorry you and the kids are sad, but she is good for me. And I really don’t think you and I are done yet”.

    “Ummm, yes we are”. Called my attorney and filed for divorce. I still think he is stunned I did it. Freakin idiot.

    • Mine was surprised that I filed to. He acted like I did something bad to end our marriage.
      Two days before he told me he wanted a divorce and had rented a house.

    • During counseling in wreckonciliation after DDay #1, (it hadn’t worked out with OWhore #1, so he went back to Plan B Me), I said that the sensible thing would be to divorce, but I was willing to try to reconcile if he would commit to REALLY working at it

      Both I and the counselor sat with open mouths as Fucktard, with the major sadz, In utter astonishment, said “DIVORCE?!? You would DIVORCE me??!??” No, I didn’t do it.

      Face palm x 10000.

    • Lol! The day he moved out and 1st night in his new place, I get a text “I don’t think we are done yet, maybe we just need this break”.

      Hmmmmm, yeah we are on a permanent break. Separation agreement is finalized soon. And that means we are officially done. Break!? FFS I didn’t pay my lawyer to get me a vacation from the fuckwit.

  • “Sublimate your ego”. This!! Like it’s ok for you to live with perpetual dissonance if you take them back. They have no idea of the conflicting emotions you are expected to conquer.. Not wanting to lose your life as you’be known it for decades. Not wanting to break up the family unit. Trying to make a major decision while you battle shock, rejection, and a jumbled mess of emotions. Or live with the knowledge, public and internal, that you took back someone that made you an option and put someone else in your head and bed. Now your “options@ suck. It’s a lose/lose scenario. And the bkaneshiftng is genius. I heard it many times. “You could never get past it, and never let me live it down.” More permission to justify leaving.

    • This is exactly what I went through for 5 years. I hated that he said “I could never get past it.” I’m so happy now that he is out of my life. I am thankful I made it through all of this with the help of CL & CN.

      • We went to counseling and the therapist told him it would take 5-7 years to even get a semblance of normal back due to the magnitude of his damage. And that it would never go away completely. The look of disbelief on his face was priceless! Why should he have to be “one down” for so long?! That was enough to send him running. Way too much reality there. The empathy factor was so minute as to be invisible. It was still ALL about him, his comfort level and an acceptable timeline for getting over it. Never to be mentioned again. Glad you are on the other side of things! It can make a sane person go crazy!👍💪🏻

        • Cheaters are lazy cowards. They don’t divorce because it’s too much work and there is no guarantee they will find somebody better so they go have affairs instead. When they get found out, that’s when they leave because leaving is easier than doing the work of reconciliation. They often don’t file for divorce though because that’s work and what if AP doesn’t work out? Then chump, who never asked for any of this has to do the filing and most of the work associated with getting divorced.

          • I made the X file and get a lawyer. I used his as we agreed on a equitable division of assets. I didn’t have to pay a dime toward the divorce. I also moved first so finding a realtor and getting the house ready to sell was up to him as was finding a new place to live. That was probably the most work he had ever done in 19 years. I made him to do it all – you want the divorce, you can do the work.

            • I had originally planned to do the same, but as I said below, I ended up doing the work because I didn’t want to end up in an open marriage by default. He might have eventually gotten around to filing maybe, but then I would have been waiting for the next thing to happen to me.

            • MissBailey, count yourself lucky. My cheater wouldn’t have a finger to file let alone pay for it. I would still be married if I waited for him, not to mention at his mercy for child support and fear of what he would involve me in as his lovely wife.

            • The only danger here is the sociopathic cheater types who will steal a chump blind. Glad you sized up your cheater correctly.

              • I handled all the finances and did all the taxes so I knew where money was going or not. He’s probably a sociopath and he got to keep his separate savings. I have more in 401K than he has in his savings and 401 together. We walked away with our retirement and split the house equity 50/50. I knew he wanted out so he was motivated to split fairly or I would have dragged this shit out longer which would have really pissed him off.

              • You’re lucky that he wanted out so much he was willing to make it happen.

                Mine was the opposite. He liked having his cake and eating it too. He made it quite clear that he wasn’t going anywhere until he was forced to go, and that I’d pay a high price for that to happen. I wound up staying in the marriage until the kids were grown, because IRS was garnishing my wages for his tax debt. What money I had left barely kept the kids fed and housed. My only options were to stay, or to make the kids homeless and starving.

            • This is the exception and not the rule. You are fortunate it worked out for you. I would not for most part others do this especially for many years of marriage.
              Ladies especially get your own lawyer! Don’t share a lawyer because that lawyer is not representing you and will not act in your best interests. I know people who got screwed for doing that.

              • Yeah, my ex would have drowned me in his debts and let the house go into foreclosure if I had tried that strategy. So I extracted a fair post marital agreement from him after Dday, as a condition of wreckonciliation, and basically waited for 2nd Dday to invoke it. It was a three year wait, and hurt like a mo-fo when it happened, but I walked away with all my needs met, and a very inexpensive, no drama divorce.

                Knowing what I know now, I should have left him the first time. But I bought into the RIC hopium at the time. I am lucky I didn’t catch any stds from him, because he was cheating the whole time.

            • Good for you, Miss Bailey! LadyLiar didn’t have to do any of the work, just walked away free and clear to go have more fun.

          • Not only are they lazy cowards, they are completely blown away when a Chump lines up a divorce attorney that no other divorce attorney in the state wants THEIR spouse to consult if they file.

            Mua-ha-ha – asshole.

        • Thank you for saying this! It just recently started hitting me that even now that the stuff has hit the fan, the sun still need to rise and set on his precious, delicate ass.

          If I say anything that makes him ‘feel bad’, he says I’m not being helpful or considering his feelings!! Haha!!

          I love this site. The more and more I read it seems like they were all handed the same script.

          Thank you all so much-the normalizing factor of your stories are truly a breath of fresh air.

          • Yes. I hear the same. I am making him feel bad. I am making him look bad. I am being difficult. I am out to get him. I am ruining the kids’ emotional well being, because I do not want to tell a story of mutual decision to divorce… it is about him.

          • It Ain’t Me. 2 years ago was D-Day for me. My divorce was final in July. I had to get a court order for him to either remove his stuff from my garage or pay when I have it removed. He showed up the last possible day he could and still left stuff in there. It wasn’t much so when he asked to keep the small pile of garbage in there for a bit I was ok. I don’t use the garage except in winter. I told him come October it was going. Well, I told him at the beginning of the month I was arranging to have it disposed of. I sent him an email to let him know the stuff was gone and he no longer needed to make arrangements to get it. WELL, I got a text back telling me how abusive and crazy I was and how I disposed of memories my children would want from his parents (side note, anything that my children would want was put aside), how I just want to cause him pain. It was ridiculous really. So yes, it is ALWAYS about them in their mind. Anything you do, say, or implement that they don’t agree with will be your fault. They now have the perfect excuse why their life sucks: It’s the crazy ex-wife’s fault! Get used to. Stay strong, go no contact and live your best life.

            • dldr
              My goodness. Even after 2 years… Still boo hoo, woe is me!?

              The sad sack, puppy dog routine is punctuated with ‘me me me’ and tiny fits when when I’m not being agreeable. I’m trying to keep reminding myself that any civility I’m seeing is just a tactic.

              This really does give me hope, though. My D-Day was less than a month ago. I’ve moved out but I’m still still sucking at no contact. Take 3 started last night.

              Thank you for the thoughtful words and I really appreciate you sharing your story. I’ve really felt like I was losing my grip on reality-this place is keeping me sane.
              Thank you

              • It ain’t me. This site has made me strong, kept me sane and given comfort to me on countless days. It’s a great resource. Even as you get closer and closer to MEH it will help you to see how far you have come and you can lend support to those like you who are just beginning on your journey. After 26 years of being with someone I didn’t think I would ever function. In the immediate aftermath of D-day a friend whose house I would go to everyday after I put the kids on the bus, because i was losing my mind being alone, lost me in the store and found me aimlessly wandering in the toilet paper isle lost like a child. I didn’t know how I got there! Your are not losing your grip you are in trauma. Please don’t lose faith. Come here often and find a good support system. Most importantly get a damn fine lawyer. While we didn’t have anything to fight over my attorney was more for my protection. No longer did I have to deal with him and his abuse (he is an attorney and rep himself), she didn’t just represent me, she DEFENDED me. He threw ugly, ugly accusations against me and she dismantled him. This fool even stood up and told the open court the ONLY extramarital affair he had was with his current gf. It was lie, but just goes to show you how entitled they feel. Good luck and you will not only get through this you will THRIVE. It just takes time.

              • It ain’t Me, going NC is very difficult in those first few painful months. Don’t be hard on yourself!! I fell off that wagon many times in the 2 months after D-day. It wasn’t until I moved and the divorce was signed (60 days from I want a divorce to final) that I was finally able to go NC as best as I could. We still had a house to sell but texts were only about the sale. Now that everything is done, I am full-on NC (no kids).

                Take one day at a time – there’s no NC police here, just a bunch of NC chumps who know it’s a path to healing.

              • dldr

                Such good advice! I’m trying to learn and lean on the experience of others, so it means a lot!

                MissBailey

                Thank you for the reassurance about the NC. I’m sure the concrete nature of a divorce proceeding will help (the finality of it).
                How liberating!

                Kudos to you both for getting up and out. I hope to have my own conclusion soon. I want a good ending and wisdom to share with others like you ladies have for me.

                The compassion and directness here is overwhelming.

                XO

          • After sharing my hurt feelings, which he never wanted to address, he always responded with anger and told me “This is not helpful!”

            WTF? And cheating on me was helpful?!?!?

            Disordered sociopath. In the words of Simon Cowell, “Off you go!”

        • YES ! XW was told- the cheated upon spouse would need 5 to 6 years to recover. She exclaimed “I don’t think I can handle him being sad and upset at me that long”

          She just wanted it to be all done and wrapped in a forgiveness bow like magic. From her point of view it was no big deal what she had been doing for six months because “cheating is a lot more common than you realize- a lot of people are doing it !!!”

          She was lazy in all things except cheating.

          • “She was lazy in all things except cheating” oh that’s so true @Zell!

            STBxW was never capable of organising and paying for something on the internet — I always had to chumpily step in and do the work for her — however funnily enough she had no problems when it came to booking flights, hotels, etc. for AP

      • I am re-reading old texts from my 2014 D-day, and Hannibal Lecher was encouraging me to “get past it,” and “think of positive things,” within a week after finding out about his affair. Never mind I was eating 300 calories a day, anxious all the time, sleeping 2 hours a night, because of finding out about his deception.

        He was also telling me that he “needed calm” and cautioning me against “any more drama” after he returned home from a conference, so that we could remain in the same house peacefully as we talked things out.

        Fucker.

        • Yes, I threw him out for attending OW’s son’s wedding without me (long story), Then I chumpily let him come back. He strolled in the door and asked if ‘I had my mind right now”.

          They are so evil. He was sleeping with her and he asked me if I had my mind right. Because I had dared to react.

      • Honestly you probably could have gotten past it. They do not let you get past it. It is perpetual and in motion. You probably never even thought you couldn’t get past it he probably just said that at some opportune time to plant the thoughts inside your head it’s called gaslighting. You probably thought it didn’t even make sense when he said most of the salad that came out of his face.

        • I mean when my abuser was talking to me a lot of the time I felt ashamed. Probably because I knew that none of this made any f****** sense. He would insert reasons why I should feel certain ways. It’s so fun to be gone if there is a God I found her or him or whatever it is not in my abuser but in my own conciousness. Amen.

        • To be honest, I couldn’t have gotten past it. Betrayal eats at the very basis of a relationship, IMHO. Nothing my cheater could have done would have compensated for his betrayal. Deep down, I knew this immediately on D-day.

          • Tempest, I agree. There is no going back after a betrayal like cheating. One and done. I know skankboy was playing the odds! He crapped out! Sucks to be him!

          • Yeah you’re right and I understand what you’re saying completely. I was just responding to something someone up the thread said about him saying” you probably can’t get over it” The point I was trying to make is that they never give you any kind of agency to decide anything for yourself even whether or not you could get over their betrayal. Which is obviously b******* too.

    • @New Boundaries-
      THIS! Within 24 hrs. of discovery, and going through the EXACT emotions you just described, his words to me were “I know you’re never going to get past this”… “I don’t think we should even try, because you’re never going to get past it”…
      I still chose reconciliation, and clearly was in it by myself. A year and a half later, I finally filed. They are unbelievable!

  • Stupid me may as well rented a billboard on I 95 and put a picture of me, kids and dog with “Cheaters Plan B, eagerly awaiting his return since 2005”.

    He showed zero remorse or accountability but after being so shitty I was down to 113 pounds, my hair was falling out and I had hives…when I FINALLY had enough of his endless badgering to do as he told us, on the VERY phone call where I was going to tell him to stop calling or visiting, he said “Im coming home”…no permission needed of course because billboards.

    He no only strolled right back in without any limits or boundaries…he bought a second house 3 miles from our family home to the tune of $600,000 with 2 loans on each house…we were $800,000 in debt for houses, but this was 2007 – what could go wrong?

    I sold the first house myself after getting it ready to sell myself (while raising kids and my side gig caring for dying children). My work was all that kept us from bankruptcy come the crash of 2008. In my minds eye I still see myself painting the entire inside of that house alone…he must have had something important to do.

    When he ran off to live in CA, he had forced me to sign away our rights to a comprehensive military life insurance plan that was expensive but had good coverage in favor of something cheaper. It had a high pay out but only for a short period. When he died 5 yrs after implementing his Plan B, guess what I paid my house off with?

    • Mine moved in with the Skank in January 2010. Just stopped coming home, until 6 weeks later, after having introduced her to my boys (!!!!), he showed up one night and told me to expect divorce papers. Not that he ever got round to filing of course but hey, he liked a bit of drama. I guess he’ll be aiming for the Oscar for best performance soon. Problem was, he and the Skank used to fight like two kindergartners so approximately every three weeks he would come storming in, move his stuff back into the wardrobes and declare “it’s still my home”. At least I made him sleep in the spare room. This went on for 18 months. I started seeing someone after about a year and one Sunday morning the bedroom door opened (the Twat was staying with the Skank at this point) and the Twat just walked in. I went ape shit! What if I had had someone there with me! I didn’t but that isn’t the point is it. He was free to come and go as he pleased, but God forbid I should have a relationship. That would have been an interesting encounter wouldn’t it. Honestly, that was the WORST period ever. One night I came home from the theatre (alone of course) and saw a bloody goldfish bowl on the table and his suitcases next to the sofa!!! I just burst into tears. When would he EVER leave me in peace? Well, as it turns out, he wasn’t going to until the paperwork went through for me to buy him out of the house. Even then, he was stunned when I took the house key off him! He felt that he was entitled to have one “just in case”! Oh my God, I’m so glad he’s out of my life!

    • I call that karma and you deserved every penny you got. Colossal asshole. Mine devastated us financially before leaving—basically stole our entire retirement . I’m 58 and had to start from scratch. I have no retirement money but own my house. House or retirement I can’t have both but it was worth it to get rid of the narcopath.

    • Yep karma. There are many things to be observed here. I am so happy that you made out of all of this the way that you did. You have some scars unicorn no more but you’re a princess warrior at peace.

  • I didn’t really get the Plan B offer until 6 months after he left me for the whore. What startled me was the day he left he opened the door to leave and looked back at me (I was right behind him crying and begging him to stay) and he said, “Don’t ruin this for me.”…. meaning don’t sabotage his new relationship with the OW. He didn’t want me to contact her, make trouble for her at her job, contact her stbx, etc.

    • Yep. This is a very classical conversation. “Do not ruin it for me.” “Do not talk to anyone about why I left you, this is none of their business.” “You are ruining my reputation.” And so on, and so on…
      My favorite: “I just made a mistake. And it is not like you are innocent. We both caused this.”

      • Looking back on the marriage, we didn’t both cause it. He caused it being a selfish bastard and never putting me, the marriage or even his kids first. It was doomed from the beginning. It just took 18 years to catch up. Hell, he even admitted that he was not a good husband. I will go as far to so that he’s not even a decent person.

        • Yep. I was also not prioritized. The kids more than me. I am going so far to say that he actually did not consider me an individual with my own needs. Whenever I disagreed on things, he essentially felt I was being wrong and acted difficult. He always felt as if I was out to ruin things for him. I simply existed to please him. I was like a third arm or something.

          • “out to ruin things for him”. I remembered a time back in our early years when he wanted to purchase an ATV to help haul deer during hunting season. I didn’t want to take on a loan for something so frivolous when other things like mortgage and car payments were more important. He had a freakin’ hissy fit about how he worked hard (so did I) and what was the point if he couldn’t have anything nice. Yep, he got the the ATV, which sold within 2 years for a motorcycle, which was sold to purchase the zero-turn lawn mower that we really needed and had for 13 years. It was like being married to man-child with temper tantrums.

    • Sounds like he was having a “Gone with the Wind” moment!

      Chumplady hits the nail on the head. Once you say I do there is NO PLAN B! The I DO means we are all PLAN A and the ONLY PLAN!

  • The Plan B offer to me was “if I wasn’t with Irene I would be with you”. I was the other woman-BUT I didn’t know. When I found out, that was his response and I ended it with this 64 year old man and whom I learned from the ex-wife I located was very experienced in a lifetime of cheater ways. The ‘Irene’ he was living with had been his affair partner when he was cheating on his latest ex-wife and his goal was always getting the advantage of others wealth and he had been successful at that many times. I don’t know why he was after me while he was living with the woman he called Irene. But then we never understand why cheaters prefer splintering with multiples instead of the wholeness of one person.

  • Today is my 21st wedding anniversary. Last year at this time, I was in bed crying, wondering WTF was going on. We are not yet divorced but he has been gone since February. When he left he said, “I’m not destroying anything.” Now it’s “I can’t fix it.” My daughter told me he cries about what he did to our family. Good. And it is still destroyed and will never be fixed.

    Today she and I are going to spend the day together after school. The truth is that I am glad I married him because she wouldn’t be here if I hadn’t. I am not glad about how things have turned out, of course. I am grieving the person I thought he was and the marriage I thought I had. There is no way to see someone’s secrets until they are revealed. I married him because I believed he would never hurt me. Now that I know he can I have to go.

    Unhappy Anniversary to me.

    • Sorry it is a tough day. I hope you do something for yourself! Those significant days affect us more than we think and insidiously. Hope you experience peace and renewed energy Today. Big hugs

    • Velvet hammer

      Enjoy this day with your daughter:) like you said- you have a great kid , embrace the joy of having her:)
      Go out for dinner, movie, whatever make you happy.
      The sadness? Sure… get into shower at night, let it out, followed by more pampering ( bath and body anyone?)
      It sucks…
      Rewriting the scenario of this day may help a bit- plus will create lovely memory of a GNO for you:)

    • Sounds like things aren’t going too well in Schmoopieville! Enjoy your day with your daughter – you know, the person who really loves you!

    • I’m sorry he turned out to be a lemon. Despite all of that, you have a lovely daughter and I hope you two enjoy a great day together.

    • Ugh, the first anniversary after is a hard one. I took my daughter to see our favorite musician! You will get through this. You will come to a time when the date will slip your mind and you’ll remember a day or two after and go “meh”. I always say I would do it all again because of my children. Hang in there. It gets better. It just takes time.

    • Velvet, I know how you feel. I was divorced 3 days after my 40th wedding anniversary and three grown sons. Your post brought back that empty, but crampy feeling in my gut.

      But to feel great again I just need to think that spending my old age with such a stupid, shallow, vain person will not happen.

      When you think you’ve met the stupidest person on Earth along comes today’s contribution to the UBT.
      It reminds me of a joke about new measure of intelligence: there is the Megater, the Ter, the Milliter and the Cheater.

    • Hugs, Velvet. It does get easier!

      My first anniversary as divorced was a couple of weeks ago. It would have been 28 years. It was hard, but survivable.

      In general, life is so much easier now that we’re divorced. There is NOTHING worse than living with a husband who openly cheats on you: sitting on our bed, on the phone with the OW, him saying “I love you, too” to her. He non stop would sext and text and email her as well, right in front of me— all in the name of “honesty,” and not having to “hide” his “real” life from me and our kids…

      So yeah, glad it’s final and over.

  • Hard pass on the plan B thing. On dday when he thought I was definitely done; he “offered” me a chance we might get back together and I didn’t hesitate to say no to that. Unfortunately I did agree to try and wreckconcile.

    Fast forward to three years and a failed wreckconciliation and he wanted us to remain friends which was just a different way to serve up the plan B offer. Since we had taken up trying to see our favorite football team play in other venues, he even let me in on the fact he was planning his next trip to Green Bay and if he wasn’t with anyone, maybe I’d want to go with him??!!

    I agreed to that too since we were deep into the splitting assets and divorce process. Our kids were grown so I didn’t want to fight over anything. I just wanted my settlement and I wanted to be gone so it seemed prudent to go along with his wishes.

    I lied. Haven’t seen him since the day we were divorced.

    • Good point, Cheaterssuck–the “let’s be friends” post-divorce is an alternative version of Plan B. It leaves open that they have a potential entrypoint for getting back together if things with schmoopie don’t work out, and gives them the impression management they want, “See, if my XW/XH is willing to stay friendly with me, I’m (a) not so bad! and (b) he/she realizes that he/she was a cause of the dissatisfaction that led to my affairs!”

      Win-win for cheater. Don’t stay friends. No one needs a friend who stabs them in the back.

  • After 10 months of “pick me dancing” after the discard, he came over to supposedly discuss the divorce but we ended up drinking two bottles of wine and watching “Jersey Boys”. It was a very flirty evening, near what would have been our 8th wedding anniversary, and he looked at me and said, “Wouldn’t it be romantic if we got remarried again in a few years.”

    THAT was my moment of clarity that he was truly disordered.

    I downloaded “How to File a Divorce Pro Se” for my state and filed the papers 30 days later. He ignored them. So, after another 30 days, I hired a lawyer. I never looked back from that moment. It was the first declaration of me retaining/regaining my self worth. I will never be put in a corner again.

    • I think they say things like that to keep us hanging on. Thank Goddess you recognized the red flag of disorder when he mentioned remarrying, and got away!
      Been separated for 5 years, officially divorced for 3 yrs, he remarried OW a year after; and last month, told our kid it was his goal to marry me again….What in the actual fuck?!? But I’m the crazy ex-wife….right.

    • Right on
      I filed probate as well and made him sign it
      He also said, “ i’m going to ask you to marry me again “
      I never said anything – but under my breath I said no way motherfucker

  • My offer via text after 22 years of marriage was to continue living together as roommates.

    There really is no point too low for a ghoul lol

    My answer via attorney was served to him at work.

    • I got the “Open marriage” offer. My response was “That’s not a real marriage”. It’s also not what I was promised. Even back then I recognized that as a play for cake and I wasn’t going to give it to him. I thought that refusal would prompt him to file for divorce but he didn’t. Eventually I initiated the divorce because I didn’t want to end up in an open marriage by default.

      • Some sage wisdom I read somewhere said
        ….”If your spouse brings up an “Open Marriage”, after you’ve been married awhile, 99.999% chance you are already in one, you just don’t know it yet.”…

  • Oh man, my ex was ENGAGED and came back to beg for a chance. He drove 2,000 miles to get a toolbox he left behind. And to tell me he’d always love me and never get over me and he’d drop everything (including his fiancé apparently) to get an apartment in my town and “start over”. This after 20 years of being a chump already? After I crawled myself out of the ashes of divorce? After I stayed single for a year and worked on loving myself again…. it was easy to tell him to eff off.
    He married that girl two months later (not an AP, met completely after the divorce was final and innocent of his ways). Poor woman.

  • NoMo, what is it with these fools? Same here! It was about a week or so after I tossed skankboy out that he asked if he could move back live on the other side of the house. Idiots!

  • “Because you don’t have any needs, do you?”

    Yup. Once again, we see what this is all really about with cheaters. They don’t want to GIVE anything, only take. They will spend every day conditioning you to ask for less and less and less and you’re so busy busy giving them more and more and more that you don’t even realize it until you’ve basically been turned into nothing but a shut-the-fuck-up girl/guy. Just shut the fuck up and do for them and don’t you dare ever get any ideas that you deserve anything back.

    You know what? Let his whore have him.

    • This is so true. It takes a long time but when you get rid of them you find yourself asking “How did I get to the point where I thought that getting NOTHING from my so called partner was acceptable”.

      • My problem is that he did do a lot for me in the early days of our marriage and I felt like I owed him for that. Somehow I got myself into debt and it took me a while to realize that it was a debt I really hadn’t asked for and the interest was too high and I had already paid it back several times over. Done now. I owe him nothing. That debt was cancelled when he ran off with Schmoopie. Now I avoid letting him do favors for me because I don’t ever want to be in his debt ever again.

  • My ex has repeatedly floated the idea of us getting back together someday – after he’s had a chance to “grow” and “reach my full potential.” Which is really code for “after I’ve had a chance to fuck some other people and see what else is out there.” Yeah, no thanks. I don’t want a second chance at your probably by then diseased dick. Definitely don’t want a second go at your diseased mine.

    The worst part of it all though is he floats this idea to our young children. “Dad says maybe you guys will get remarried someday!” I’ve had to be the bad guy on that one and take away their hopium. I don’t know why I’m still shocked that he can’t be a decent human being for his kids – any man that fucks around on his kids’ mom is a shit parent. That’s not changing.

  • One of the things I’ve come to realize through this mindfuck is the cake eaters ability to talk themselves up. “There isn’t a person that isn’t their friend, they are desirable, blah, blah, blah.”

    What I’ve come to find out is… there’s a lot of people who actually know him that think he’s a dick! They would never say it out loud, because … influence (through impression management).

    My sister has a friend that moved to my town (she lives 3 hours away). Last time she was in town she visited this friend, and this woman said “oh yeah, I’m friends with him on Facebook, he has a really good reputation. A lot of people like him.” She doesn’t really “know” him, she just knows the impression he spins on social media – paint yourself as desirable and the brainless masses will follow. The last I knew he had over 2000 friends on FB.

    A big part of unchumping myself was realizing that who I thought he was was partially a result of my buying into a skilled manipulators impression management game.

    Trust that they suck!

    • Mine told me he was “a great catch” and “any woman would be lucky to be married to me.” Mind you, this was AFTER his affair was discovered. And after his weekend stay in the psych ward following his abusive blow up towards me. And after his ongoing contact with his howorker was discovered.

      Yes, you’re a real catch.

  • Ah yes, I remember that call. 🙂

    After I lined up my ducks and filed, CheaterX dragged out our comparatively simple divorce for nearly 18 months. I didn’t have a place to go post-divorce. I had to stay in the marital home until the settlement came through and I could buy a new place. The upshot is that I moved out about 5 months after the divorce was finalized and 30 days after I received the settlement. This was as per the decree. On the last day I had access to the marital home, I swung by to return the key. Schmoopie had moved in. I rang the doorbell, only to hear their voices and they refused to open the door! Instead, I received a text telling me that we were No Contact. I left. This was probably the most humiliating experience in the entire divorce.

    Schmoopie and CheaterX got engaged the week after the divorce was final, and had planned to marry about 11 months after that date. I got word that they fast-forwarded the marriage to 2 months after I moved out.

    6 months after they were married, CheaterX called my cell phone and left a Sad Sausage message on it.

    Hi. Okay, this is me, CheaterX. I’ll just try and leave a message. I don’t know if you’re getting them or if you’ve blocked them, but just kind of wanted to say some things that need to be said so you can hear them from me. Schmoopie filed for divorce. I don’t know where that came from. I don’t know if it’s just money after all but just want to tell you you were right (Note: I never said anything to him about Schmoopie, the affair, or her motives). So I’m going through a tough patch and trying to get out of it with my whole skin–which is probably impossible. You know everything went weird the day of the wedding. I don’t know how to describe it and ever since then it’s been downhill. It all started changing the day you left so I don’t know if this was just about money or what it was. Anyway, since that happened I keep thinking boy, I sure wish kb was back at the house. Seriously, I’d give anything to have you and the dogs back. I’m going through a lot of anxiety and depression. Leave a message on this phone. The other phone is monitored so much. The cats are doing great and I got another dog. So that’s the update and I’m just trying to get my life put back together. I know she treated you real bad (Note: I don’t think she treated me badly. I wasn’t married to her, after all). I’m out from under her spell and back in Reality Land. But when this all goes down and the smoke clears, I’d like to have a discussion and see where we can go.

    I didn’t respond.

    If I hadn’t been reading Chump Lady and seeing how this Sad Sausage message ticks about every box in the Cheater’s Playbook, I’d probably have wanted to give him another chance because he’d Seen The Light.

    Of course, he hadn’t. Just count the number of times he talks about “I.” And he’s doesn’t apologize. It’s more about how he’s being discarded by Schmoopie, whom he blameshifts for everything. The discerning Chump sees that the real issue is that everything was fine until I left. That took away the kibble supply, and they were no longer able to use me to triangulate. That wiped out the basis for their relationship.

    Mostly, though, I laughed at the thought of having a discussion of where “we” would go. I am living my own life, and whatever he does isn’t relevant.

    • “I’d like to have a discussion and see where WE can go”???? Wow. Play your cards right and he could be all yours again!

    • I wish I could take every newly-minted chump and drill into them the following message, “A cheater ‘Seeing the light’ = a thinly veiled (albeit often convincing) attempt to avoid consequences.” They know what they did is dishonest; they know an affair is wrong even as they are conducting it or they wouldn’t hide the affair from their partner & friends. Even 4-year olds know lying is wrong.

      Anytime a cheater whines, “I now see the error of my ways,” they are manipulating you. They always saw ‘the error of their ways,’ but they didn’t CARE–either because they thought they were worthy of happiness at our expense, or they had devalued us to the point where they thought we deserved to be cheated on.

      Never try to talk sense into a cheater, nor force-feed them an empathy chip. Virtually any activity will be more fruitful. If you are tempted to get a cheater to “see” how much they have hurt you, or how valuable the marriage is, lie down until the urge passes, or distract yourself by counting every button on every shirt in your house.

      • This is great advice Tempest and much needed for me today as I prepare for my “talk”. What advice would you give a new Chump on how to respond when the cheater plays the sad sausage bit about how I made him feel bad, or neglected, or abandoned and that’s why he did what he did…..over and over again?

        • First, remember that the number one predictor of a cheater is someone who blameshifts.

          Secondly, say as little as possible to a cheater when you tell them you want a divorce. They are masters of manipulation, and any tiny hook you feed them so that they can “explain” their position, or convince you that could work harder to make him happy, they will run with. Chumps, by nature, are responsible people. We try to please others, and to rectify situations when we have made an error. Do not give cheater any open gate to convince you that you made errors that caused him to cheat.

          IMHO, most cheaters who claim they were “unhappy” and that’s what led to their affair are engaging in post-hoc justification. They weren’t really unhappy, they just like to screw novel people, and their heads are easily turned by someone who pays them a lot of attention. My X had gems such as the following, “stop obsessing about my affair and start obsessing about why I was so unhappy with you, Tempest, at the time!” and “I felt that you weren’t listening to me about what I needed to be happy.” Shut that shit down immediately. If Sad Sausage is that unhappy in the marriage, why does he want you to take him back?

          Best thing to say, “I no longer want to be married to someone who cheated on me.” End of story. Repeat it ad nauseum, without explanation, or I guarantee cheater will try to pull your head into the mindfuckery blender.

          Good luck, and please, tell us how it goes? Hugs!!

          • “First, remember that the number one predictor of a cheater is someone who blameshifts.”

            No need to investigate their psyches any further than that!

            Whenever they talk, shut up and listen. That makes them nervous/or they believe they have an appreciative audience (narcissism comes in different flavors!). They let their guard down and reveal their plans more than 90% of the time.

      • Tempest, I love the last paragraph. It took me awhile to realize that no matter what I said, or how I said it, it was not going to change her mind or her actions. They all feel so entitled that their end always justifies the means, no matter the collateral damage. Thank you all for your comments and personal experience, it helps me every day.

      • You Tempest
        Get the Prize
        For the best Best piece of advice
        So Accurate, Thanks
        Wish I had it a few years ago
        I wasted so much time
        Ugh

    • WOW! Your ex sounds fucking delusional. No apologies, just whining that his latest opportunity didn’t work out so could you please come back and entertain him? As if you exist to serve him and don’t have a life of your own! Again, wow! Glad you’re out of there!

      • Yep. 🙂

        In one of his texts to Schmoopie, he very plaintively lamented that he missed his mother, and if she were alive, she’d tell him what to do. I read that text and thought WTF? This man is in his mid-50s and he wants a mommy to tell him what to do?

        Just another signpost toward delusional. I do NOT miss being married to him at all!

        Maybe one day I’ll find someone who wants a true partnership, but I’m not settling for anything less than that–and certainly not for some man-child!

    • It fucking amazes me that cheaters feel the need to vomit their sadz all over a chump. “Poor ME, don’t you feel bad for ME,… ME,ME,ME!

      When I was still living in Chump land, cheater thought I should be a support person for his grieving the loss of his affair (thanks RIC for encouraging that abuse). He’d vomit shit I never asked about or wanted to know. Yeah, to be honest I didn’t really care where she let him stick his prick!

      the level of cluelessness from cheaters is freaking amazing (in a depraved and masochistic way). It’s like running you over with a car and then jumping out screaming, “oh no! Don’t you feel awful for me! Look at how sad I am! I have a dent!”

      Uh, hello, I’m broken and bleeding, you cares about your f*cking Sadz!

  • I have always said, if our ex’s were truly that miserable in their marriages then they had a right to divorce us but they had no right to go looking for our replacements first. They aren’t really that miserable, however, they just think that maybe they can do better but they are not sure so they hang on to the spouse as long as they can until they are reasonably sure that they have found better. The thing they don’t realize is that you are never going to find better while still married because only shitty people fuck other people’s spouses. If they really wanted to do better they should have taken the risk of divorcing with no guarantee of finding better. Marriage vows should not mean suffering abuse for the rest of your life because you promised to love someone who ends up mistreating you, but it should mean that you are done looking for the best you can do. The vows mean that you have made your choice and you are going to be fully vested in your partner. The only consideration should be whether or not you can stand to keep living with that person, not whether or not you think another person would make you happier. Other people should not factor into the equation at all until you are already good and divorced.

  • D-day came with the assumption he would move into our downstairs with it’s own entrance and bathroom, but also next to our daughters room and live there. He would continue to see the OW along with anyone else he wanted. He was benevolent enough to give me the option of “dating around” as well. He would give me 6 months to get my “shit together” and see how the marriage went. We were married for 18 years and together for 26! I told him I didn’t need 6 minutes and began throwing his stuff out the window. WTF?!! I ran not walked to a lawyer and secured my children, support, and a started the divorce. Everything was finalized this July, just under 2 years! His Tinder friend who he knew him for three days took him in and has been stuck with him ever since. She periodically boots him out, but she is so afraid he will return to his “crazy, abusive, monster of and ex” that she promptly scoops him back up. I am hardcore no contact. Text about the children only. I don’t know why she is so worried. I am no one’s plan B.

    • Good for you. Absolutely the right response. These entitled jerks think that because they have another option that somehow makes them superior and someone to be fought over. Really it just proves what entitled jerks they are. What is sad is how long it takes some of us chumps to figure that out. Sigh.

  • Agree ^^ Chumpinrecovery.

    Don’t get married to anyone EVER if you are not committed to Plan A Forever! That is what you signed up for. Don’t be a shitty person!

  • As she left, I got the “Because I don’t know if you can forgive me.” line.
    A month later, when things didn’t work out with Prince Cheating, she tried to come back to me as “Plan B.” Her opening line: “I think I may have given up on you too soon.”
    Oh, thanks, I wasn’t nearly as defective as you thought, though still broken and sub-par. She also had a list of demands that had to be met before she would come back. I actually laughed out loud. The mighty Princess was actually puzzled when I said I really wasn’t sure I wanted to take her back. Apparently, that much awesome and sparkle should’ve been enough for me to gratefully kneel in tribute.

      • YourLoss, there were demands that
        1) we never ever bring up the cheating again (with multiple AP’s, no less)
        2) she could go hang out at the singles bar without any “snooping” on my part
        3) there would be no questions about where she was or who she was or where she was going
        4) there was something about quitting her job and not having to do some specific chores
        To summarize, she would never have to answer for her cheating, she could basically continue to cheat whenever she wanted, and she could sit at home and eat bon bons all day.
        There might’ve been more, but I forget.

    • “she also had a list of demands”

      Yep… my cheater had those too! My favorite all time demand was that I greet him at the door like the dog, always happy to see him! Luckily there was no crotch sniffing involved in that demand, I hate the smell of fishy hooker🐠 🤮😂.

      I think she would be a perfect match for my STBX… though he already has a “face for normal” girl. I’m sure she’d be a great side chick for him though.

  • X#2 did this… asked for an open marriage for the last 2 years we were together – I said no, you couldn’t handle it – and was ignored. After finally being able to pry this remora off my side, I got the post-divorce offer of a lifetime… instead of being the XW, I could now be promoted to the secondary wife or partner to X#2’s primary spouse, “since you’d really love her, she’s so cool”. And X#2 was still planning to celebrate our wedding anniversary as if nothing had happened despite having married Schmoopie 2 weeks before. I then fled to the safety of my older brother’s house in another time zone for a month and went completely no contact. X#2 never brought it up again. What’s the world coming to when a previously reliable kibble source gets so unpredictable? 😀

    • Good lord, these people are so delusional. He thought he was doing you a favor by offering you a place as second most favored in his harem.

  • I feel like I should have CHUMP tattooed in bold print on my forehead. I’ve been with my STBX (living together not married) for 11 years. He’s been serial cheating for the past 4 years. Escorts, Craiglist, dating sites FWB/NSA. At first I was chumpy and tried to accept my part in his cheating because we argued and I pulled away not realizing he was picking at me because of his own actions. The latest and final was August. I had planned a trip to Hawaii for me and my two kids for 15 years. My big Hawaii 50!! He had a record (not his fault at all – and I stupidly believed) and needed a travel waiver to travel to the USA. He had 7 years to apply and a hard 2 years of me reminding him over and over to do it because we will go without him. Guess what? No waiver. The kids and I went. He was furious. How could I do that to him? I thought we were a family? Who does that? I should have waited until he had the waiver to book. I’d never have left one of my kids behind! Sad Sausage music cued here!! He’s a procrastinator extraordinaire. Anyway, I pieced together that while I was gone he’d been in contact with escorts, started a dating profile in another town. He may have even had one in our house! When I got back he was all wonderful and said that he decided to put this incident of me abandoning him behind him and move forward. It’s always everyone else’s fault with him. Well, we all know why, he f***** cheated! AGAIN!!! I’m done. I need him to move out. I asked him to 2 weekends ago not to be there when I got home and he wouldn’t go. He acts like everything is fine. I haven’t told him everything that I found out yet. Plan on having that talk tonight. He’s out of town. I’d really like to take the chicken route and text him. I probably shouldn’t though.
    I could really use a pep talk and maybe gain some insight on how any of you confronted and kicked out your narcissistic cheater! I’m just sick to my stomach and worried about my and my kids future (they aren’t his). He’s estranged from his own 3 kids. Hasn’t any friends and no place to stay when he leaves. I don’t feel sorry for him but his sense of entitlement is immense! Part of me thinks he’s only here until he finds a new chumpy victim. Help!!

    • Your Loss, not sure where you are from but, I would check with legal aid and see how you can evict him. I wouldn’t talk to him again about it until you have a firm grasp on the legalities. Then move swiftly on the advice you are given. Be prepared for him to go into a rage. Perhaps request an off duty officer be present during eviction. Then change locks and get a security system. Protect yourself and your kids by preparing for the absolute worst case scenario.

      You can do this!

      • Thank you Special Snowflake for responding. I live in Canada. His name is on title so I can’t make him leave unless I’ve been threatened and then I can get a protection order. I just know that I can’t have him living with me while he’s getting organized to move out. I don’t know how anyone can maintain their sanity doing that. Kudos to everyone that has. I suppose I can make it so miserable and uncomfortable for him that he would want to leave. I’m lucky that I have a lot of male friends that are more then willing to be present when he moves out.
        As for his rage, yes, that will come. He loves to threaten and play dirty. He doesn’t realize, can’t connect the dots, that he has more to lose then I do.

        • The minute the rage shows, consider it a threat and get your order of protection–because it IS a threat. It is displayed to scare you into backing down.

        • One possibility is to say it would be best if cheater left for a few weeks until you can clear your head. That’s how I got Hannibal Lecher out. He wouldn’t leave voluntarily, so I hinted that a week apart might give the emotions time to calm down. He left, and I kept advancing plans for a divorce. Once they are out of the house, it’s easier to keep them out. In some places, you can even claim “abandonment” if a spouse moves out.

          I agree with you, YourLoss, that it is hard to maintain sanity while still living with cheater, and I applaud the members of CN who have had to do so. Short of doing anything illegal, if cheater won’t leave, make life as unpleasant for him as possible. Don’t keep food in the house, disable appliances, refuse to speak to him under any circumstances.

  • My ex did not try to use me as a Plan B, so to speak. But he was passive and still lying about the affairs, which gave me false hope. He never asked for a divorce– i forced him to say the words in false marital counseling, after he finally admitted to ONE of the affairs.

    I found the mediator, I filed for divorce, I found him a decent place to live with the kids because he could not be bothered to, etc, etc. Too busy being wrapped up with Ms EZ, the MOW.

    I guess Plan B in the sense that he got to remain a passive little boy doing what he wants

  • I got the same exact comment about being “friends”. I, of course, was devastated at the mere thought of getting divorced. Turns out he was figuring out his options with the ho.

    When I look back, he used to tell me he didn’t know how he got me (I was too beautiful for him) and that he didn’t understand how I found him attractive. It got to be a pretty regular comment, which baffled me.
    I stroked his ego by pointing out that I certainly was attracted to him, as evidenced by the fact that (1) I married him; and (2) I proceeded to have children with him. Who would do all of that if they weren’t attracted (and committed) to someone? Obviously I had no idea about the insidious nature of a narcissist back then.
    Now when I look back I’m convinced that his fragile little ego was so terrified that I was better than him (which I am) and that one day I would realize that fact (when his mask slipped for good) and I would leave HIM. The more his narcissistic tendencies showed, the more evident the abuse was – and while I was still in denial about this monster being my husband, I became a reluctant participant in his crazy making. So, typical narc fashion, he left me first – telling anyone that would listen that I was the one having an affair. While he immediately traipsed all over creation with the OWhore, who was a “friend” that he was lucky enough to have found to help comfort him in his grief over my betrayal AND give him a place to live when I kicked him out. It’s all pretty funny, in a sick and sardonic way, that these narcs believe the stories that they weave, thinking that nobody is smart enough to figure it out on their own. Sad, sad little sausages.

  • I got three Post it notes: “It’s about us”, “Let’s make this work”, “Maybe we can date”. All on DDay and all without ever being told why. This, for thirty six years.

  • It is the adulterer who settles for Plan B. I haven’t been able to buy into the thinking that I’m plan b or “sloppy 2nds,” or whatever you want to call it. It’s the other way around, IMO. The APs are in that role of being “sloppy 2nds.” They didn’t “win” anything. They defile the spouse of a chump, and they become defiled by an adulterous spouse. Defile is an eternal word with eternal implications…not something one wants to win. As so many have testified here, the chumps hold the power and deal all the cards regarding forgiveness, if it is earnestly sought. No more powerful, and daunting, position could be afforded us. I haven’t been approached for forgiveness, and am frankly hopeful I am never approached, but your stories have offered tremendous insight. I am grateful.

  • I discovered this blog only a week or so ago. I have been reading the archives nonstop. Today’s post is so well timed. I’m in the midst of the chaos. The cheater left for a few days in May (Dday was in March when the OWhore texted me), had a big “epiphany” in therapy and returned three days later. Went no contact with the OWhore. One month later, I came home to a note and a few essential belongings gone. He didn’t love me anymore, couldn’t stay together just for the kids (three of whom were from his previous marriage and we spent $15,000 on a crazy court custody battle, and won. They now live with their mother again). Seven weeks later, he wanted to “talk” and then asked to come home, saying that he had to write a note because he couldn’t tell me those things to my face because they weren’t true. I allowed him to move into the guest room, all the while expecting change. He was home for 8 weeks and nothing changed. He continued his contact with the OWhore. Went to her house the night before we celebrated our son’s 4th birthday, and while his mother was visiting from out of state. He left again 3 weeks ago when things got tough. And by tough, I mean, I had emotion that he couldn’t understand. Now, he tries to slip in information about how things are not going well with the OWhore. She doesn’t trust him, etc. as if he is trying to leave a possibility open for him to come back home if things don’t work out. He hasn’t come out and said it, just simply hinted at it. This being all so emotionally taxing at the moment, I just want to be strong enough to say “Hell no, I deserve better than this!”, but feel myself getting sucked into the hopium fix. Any thoughts on how to move through this detachment phase as fast as possible is much appreciated.

    • Except for dealing with child issues go no contact. You owe him nothing. AND….realistically he is moving out one inch at a time. He is not going to come home permanently. This is his cowardly was of oozing out of the marriage. You notice I wrote oozing.

      • So many times I have called him a coward. His behavior is repulsive. But slimy and oozing? Love it! Thank you!

    • Get him the hell out of the house and keep him out. Only by having little or no contact with these morons can you start to get strong again.

      Journal all the ways he has hurt and betrayed you. Read it often. Put affirmations on your bathroom mirror, keep a copy in your purse. Any time you start to feel weak, read them again. You deserve better and, only when you feel it, will you believe it!

      • Unfortunately, right now our child care arrangements involve him coming to the marital house each morning so that I can leave for work on time. He comes in, makes himself comfy, drinks my coffee. He has an hour or so before our son has to be at preschool, so he just hangs out. I see him Monday-Friday and it makes me want to vomit. His sad sausage face is getting old.
        And yes, I know I deserve better. And I can say those words, but I don’t know if I actually believe it yet. I have spent the last year in a pick-me dance and didn’t even know it. He was withdrawn, irritable, so I worked harder to try to make him happy.
        I have started the affirmations on the bathroom mirror. Have 1 up already! More to come. Thanks special snowflake!

        • Here’s an affirmation I am using, a quote, courtesy of a fellow chump here the other day….

          “Man is not what he thinks he is; he is what he hides.”
          -Andre Malraux

          For all us chumps with those “Nice Guy” cheaters, those husbands that others wanted, the ultimate evil mindfuckers.

          • Thank you VH – Hope today is easier and better for you than yesterday. I hope you did something special and memorable with your daughter. I appreciate your support here.

  • My ex told me, a week after DDay, that OW was “the best I ever had or ever will have, bar none.” That should have been my cue to exit, right? But no! I upped my dance skills and hung on for TWO MORE YEARS. It took me that long to figure out he was speaking the truth for once. I was never going to be the best, only the most useful. Now I am my own “Plan K. “

    • Sorry. However, you are free now. Neither he nor she are the best people – he is casually callous with his wife’s feelings. Is that any way to talk to your wife after cheating on her? Is that any way to talk to another human being? She is someone who is okay with helping someone cheat. To be honest, I think he is missing something – like an empathy chip in his brain and kindness and integrity in his heart. Plan K sounds good. As for him, good riddance to whatever is opposite of a mensch.

  • I was never offered a Plan B position by my ex-husband, he just ghosted. He was one of the ones who lined up all his kibbly ducks in secret, then took a leap out the door, never looking back.

    However, I have since heard this from another man. I was set up with him on a blind date by a mutual friend. The initial meeting went well, the conversation was OK, if not scintillating, and by the end he declared his interest in me and a desire to take me to dinner to get to know me better. I said fine. I felt I should give him a second chance to be interesting.

    A few days later, I got a dinner invitation via text. I told him I couldn’t go, my daughter was visiting. I wasn’t about to sacrifice an evening with my daughter for dinner with a virtual stranger. So no, but I’d be available within a few days.

    I didn’t hear from him for another couple of weeks, then I got this text message:

    “So I was hoping to get us together for a follow up dinner but to be honest have met somebody recently and don’t like to play games. So would it be ok if we parked this for a while? I hope you understand.”

    So, he “parked” me. Keys in the ignition, presumably. Looking for credit for not “playing games.” I understood all right. That choice of words revealed soooo much to me. I never did hear from that guy again, but if I had, I would not have responded. Eeeuw.

  • During my pathetically low self-esteem phase/decades, I periodically tried online dating.

    I met a guy and we chatted online, and then he told me he was planning to meet another lady he’d been chatting with. But if things didn’t work out with her, would I like to be the next on his list?

    I politely refused. Even I wasn’t that desperate. But then the next guy I met online did exactly the same thing.

    I stopped online dating at that point. I did learn one thing from asinine books like ‘The Rules’, later confirmed by ‘He’s Just Not That Into You’: if someone really wants to be with you, they will be there. You won’t be able to stop them. Plan B is not an option.

    After that, it was just a matter of learning to identify the pathologies among the ones who really wanted to be with me and pursued me – unfortunately again, two in a row, closet gays with mommy issues who wanted a nice plain beard of the right age.

    And I was desirable, and they did pursue me – because they saw someone who they thought would be just the ticket. Neither made any special effort to get to know me at all; it was more like, ‘Hey, see this bed of Procrustes? Just lie down in it, and I’ll be back in two seconds with the bone saw.’

    Oh man. That broken picker.

    But Plan B is still not an option. I’ve taken this philosophy into my work life and my friendships now – so when someone tells me who they are, and what I REALLY mean to them, I listen carefully and store it away. Result = much better boundaries and more peace of mind.

    • I’m into The Rules too! That book knows women so well, and calls out men on their shit!! Love The Rules and Ellen Fein & Sherrie Schneider. Ellen is my hero for divorced moms kicking butt and taking names.

  • My cheater did and said most of all these things in his usual pompous bloviated grandiose manner. The very night of D-Day, before I kicked him out at 1 in the morning, he said that he wasn’t “sure” of OW, and that “if it doesn’t work out with her I can totally see us getting back together.” I told him, “if you are leaving me for another woman, you and I are NEVER getting back together.” He also proposed me moving into an apartment and OW was to move into our house that I paid for. When I said hell to the no, he said then that he would live in the guest room of our house while “dating” OW who I only found out about two hours earlier.

    I am proud that I kicked his cheating ass out that very night but for months he kept coming back supposedly to get more of his shit which I had told him he had 30 days to remove, and multiple times he said to me, “WisedUp, if you play your cards right, you might just get a second chance!” He was hedging his bets because indeed, he wasn’t sure OW was as big a chump as me who had supported his underemployed ass for almost two decades. To think I once respected this man and had him up on a pedestal. Over 8 mos before going full NC, he kept repeatedly trying to plant the Plan B seed in my head but I resisted mightily even though chumpy me still “loved” him or the man I thought he’d been. Multiple times he repeated that “second chance” line.

    Perhaps who he really is can be seen in one other quote from him on D-Day. I asked, “were you even going to tell me about this?” and he said, “No, but [OW] was pressuring me to tell you. She was beginning to put conditions on my being able to keep seeing her! (he sounded mad about that) – I ran the sharing idea by her, but she wouldn’t go for that!’ I nearly puked my guts out right then – really? “The” sharing idea?” He also said, “I told her I couldn’t leave you because you needed me to take care of you!” what the ever living fuck? No, I didn’t, and don’t and I’ve taken care of myself just fine these 5 years despite the usual ptsd, weight loss, insanity the first couple years, financial distress, depression, etc. I’m so glad he is gone and that no one is ever going to abuse me this way ever again. Even though I’m in my 60s now and don’t think I’ll ever find another partner. I’d rather have no one than be with someone who had nothing but contempt for me, my children, and my values. Who only was with me because I was OF USE to him till I wasn’t. I don’t honestly know where he even is, though about 6 mos ago someone told me Cheater and OW were no longer a couple but he still lives w/her bec he can’t afford a place of his own. Too bad so sad.

    Good riddance, I am working on Plan Me! My healing and recovery are my priorities.

    • I turned 60 on 24 September. Do I want another man in my life – hell to the no! If a nice guy turns up then so be it – but do I need it – yeah, like I need a hole in the head. The Twat obviously thinks I’m like him – can’t live on my own. I put that straight many moons ago!

  • Cheater ex gave me permission to move out of state for a year or two. He said he would continue to pay my health insurance and car insurance. I asked him if daughter and I would sleep in the same bed with him and mistress if we decided to come back. He didn’t have an answer for that….

  • My cheater XH to this day thinks I am a option. He can think whatever he wants. I think I deserve a better man than him.

    • I got the Open Marriage offer, and said no.

      Then, the Fucktard decided he would just toss me, and move in his student/whore to the house I spent a solid year finding and a lot of work to buy. Then I spent 12 years fixing that place, but hey, that made it a student magnet. So he put a down payment on a tiny condo around the corner, so “we could still hang out.” Absolutely not.

      I headed for the Tall Timber. I ran.

  • I got the open marriage suggestion. No.

    He decided to put me out and bring his student in. So he put a down payment on a condo around the corner from the house I searched for for a year and bought with him, and designed a second story for and lived in hell while that happened. He thought he could visit me and be friends while he populated my home with his whore. I said no.

    I got the letter pledging endless love after the student/replacement wife was rescued by her family. I did not respond.

    I’ve been in touch lately with the Fucktard’s birth family, at least some of them who have looked me up. They were so mistreated themselves by the shitstain, they can’t help but wonder what he did to me. I gave no gory details, just enough that they could understand my disappearance at the time.

  • Mine said “would you consider taking me back in 6-9 months, after I have had a few relationships and seen what it is like to sleep with other women”. Married for ten years, separated for one and filed for divorce this month. I think the one year wait period for divorce over here sucks.

  • Just got back from a weekend with my friends ( girls). Caught him through gps at his girlfriends house on Friday night and then having lunch on Saturday. Married 28 yrs. when I got back on Monday he said we needed to talk. He sat me down and said “ I really love you and don’t want to lose you. I realize how much you do for me and our family , I realize how much I would miss you if you weren’t here , I would like to start over and try to reconnect. We should go on dates and have dinner together every night and talk about our day. Maybe in the future we can have relations etc.”. Then he said” I don’t want to give up other woman u til I see if things work out with us first” I almost fell off my chair. He was dead serious. And he can’t inderstand why I said no. Like really can’t inderstand. So I’m supposed to hang out with you and date and have sex with you and if I “ measure up” you will give the other woman the boot? For shits and giggles I asked him for a time frame. I asked how long did I have to be “ good” before he gave her up. A month, 6 months , a year? He had no answer. He said as long as it takes

  • 16.5 years into my marriage 18.5 with my husband I discovered that I was plan B not in a chump D’day kind of way, that was to follow later that year.

    I was enjoying a lovely lunch with friends when they asked how hubby and I met. Before I got a chance to comment hubby responded ‘Thankful was plan B’. Puzzled and unsure of what to say I looked a hubby confused and then thought of the girl in college he had once give a large bouquet of sunflowers to before we met who had graciously dashed his hope for a relationship. To ease the awkwardness of this comment I mentioned sunflower girl and hubby agreed yes, that was who he meant. Nine months later I would learn that Plan A was actually the man who stood as best man at our wedding and that for 8 years I had not only been a chump but an awesome beard. Something sunflower girl had been wise enough to decline.

  • Sadly, there are MANY pitiful BS’s (both male and female) who will settle for this low-rent crap and be grateful for it. That’s just hitting rock bottom.

    You can see it continually being done on certain very popular infidelity message boards. I call it the Voyage of the Damned.

  • What is it with these cheaters that they all have the same script?! Does it come from Cheaters Central Casting Inc?
    On DDay I told him straight that Susie Slutpants had to go and he said, sadly ” If I give her up and try and make it work with you then I will lose what I have with her”
    WTF ?!
    That told me all I needed to know.
    He got the divorce papers the next week.

  • Me (after dday 2): are you going to stop seeing her?
    Ex: well, if things don’t work out with us I want to pursue a relationship with her.

    I was stunned, and made an appointment with a lawyer a few days later.

    I hate the word pursue, and 4+ years later whenever I hear it, I remember this conversation and smh.

    • Oh, and when he was (to his shock and surprise) served with divorce papers, he asked, “why jump right to divorce? why not do a six month separation first?”

      What, so you can screw your skank with abandon and keep me on the line, while I sit around and twiddle my thumbs? Nah, I’ll pass.

  • I took notes on today’s blog. I am and refuse to be your Plan B. I gave you twelve years. No more. Thanks, CN and CL, for sharing!

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