He Cheats, But He’s a Vegan

cheater vegan

When you’re grasping at straws for reasons to stay and you settle on he’s a cheater, but he’s vegan.

***

Dear Chump Lady,

I just bought your book, and I am enjoying it a lot so far. There are parts of the book that I can’t relate to because, I am NOT married. My story is different, I am in a relationship with a cheater. Oh, he has cheated on me so many times and I keep going back to him because he is nice, fun, vegan (like me), knows my son and my son likes him and I am a single mom that doesn’t want to date and obviously doesn’t love herself enough.

He has cheated multiple times and gone to therapy while he was still cheating. He is known for his career and so he has that power that a lot of woman want and uses it for his advantage.

Sometimes I think it’s a control thing for me, sometimes I think it’s low self-esteem or maybe codependency or all of the above ? Sometimes I feel empowered if I can hurt him or play the game.

What is wrong with me ?

The Unmarried

****

Dear Unmarried,

Uh…. that you set the bar at “vegan”?

It’s nice to have things in common. But when a shared love of brussel sprouts is eclipsed by shitty character, why cling to the brussel sprouts?

I mean, imagine the guy drowns kittens. And you defend him with, “Yes, but he doesn’t eat kittens.”

Isn’t that kind of dumb? He models terrible things to your son. Hi, watch me disrespect your mother and vanish from your life! He’s manipulative and plays at therapy with zero interest in changing. And he brings out the worst in you. Sometimes I feel empowered if I can hurt him. 

But, but… brussel sprouts?

What do you see in a serial cheater?

You have a choice — you can be the sort of superficial person who doesn’t care. He’s nice! I don’t have time to date! Or you can be someone with larger values who cares. Hey, I don’t like how he treats other people. I don’t like how he treats me.

You can’t be both. Are you the Other Woman in this situation? Are you expecting monogamy where none was promised? Who do you want to be?

He is known for his career and so he has that power that a lot of woman want and uses it for his advantage.

Yuck. Are you dating Harvey Weinstein?

How about being the sort of woman who is known for HER career? Then you don’t need his career to get reflected kibble glory. Ask yourself, are you your own person, or are you a satellite?

An accomplished partner is a beautiful thing, but accomplishments mean jack if they’re eclipsed by rotten character. And one doesn’t tell you anything about the other. You can have beautiful character and not a lot of worldly accomplishments, and you can be The Shit and be a shit.

We are the choices we make.

You define yourself as unmarried twice. Cheating is destructive whatever your relationship status. If you invested, you hurt. Arguably, people who are legally committed have greater sunk costs, children, mortgages, family, public commitments — but the power dynamics of cheating don’t have much to do with 401Ks. They’re about triangles (rectangles, dodecahedrons… I never tire of this line).

I can’t tell from your letter if you’re dating a player with a harem of pick me dancers, or if you’re the Other Woman and the guy’s doing therapy with his chump wife. Either way, this isn’t a good look. If you think being used or complicit in hurting others is fun, I can’t help you. Anyone with any shred of self-respect won’t tolerate this crap.

My advice — dump the loser. There are a lot more vegans at the group house potluck. Choose better.

***

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ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
6 months ago

How do you know he’s not sneaking cheeseburgers when you’re not around? I mean, he IS a cheater.

Raise the bar.

New Beginnings
New Beginnings
6 months ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

Absolutely! I adopted a vegan lifestyle while married to my former asshat. He enthusiastically joined me (although I never asked him to) but, like all liars, I found later that he was just lying to me and eating junk food when I wasn’t around.

ivyleaguechump
ivyleaguechump
6 months ago
Reply to  New Beginnings

My X decided we should be vegan, I dug in my heels and agreed to being vegetarian – because I knew I could do that. I was vegetarian for 3 years while he cheated in every aspect of our lives, including eating meat (“it was just chicken!”). The first thing I did when I moved out was to go eat a steak.

Kim
Kim
6 months ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

That was my first thought….probably lies about being vegan to placate her.

Hire a PI and catch him eating burger…maybe that will be enough.

Mehitable
Mehitable
6 months ago
Reply to  Kim

You’re right, he’s probably eating Big Macs in the garage. He has food porn on his phone.

FYI
FYI
6 months ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

🤣😂🤣😜⚡️
Hilarious!

Attie
Attie
6 months ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

A bit like in that scene from Two and a Half Men when the gf wants Charlie to eat healthily (possibly vegetarian – I can’t remember) and he’s sneaking Big Macs left right and centre – and then she smells the meat on him!!!

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
6 months ago
Reply to  Attie

haha Reminds me of my ex. When we were first married, he claimed to be opposed to processed foods.

One day I happened to be at his desk at work and was looking for a pen. When I opened his desk drawer, I saw…you guessed it…a trove of chocolate candy bars. 🤣

Those candy bars were like a metaphor for the women I would find later. He claimed to be opposed to lying, too.

#consistent #cheaterscheat

ivyleaguechump
ivyleaguechump
6 months ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

Whatever they claim to NOT be, is actually what they are.

2nd Gen Chump
2nd Gen Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

Was Baby Ruth turning Twix? 🤭

Daughterofachump
Daughterofachump
6 months ago
Reply to  2nd Gen Chump

Oh, good one!

nomar
nomar
6 months ago

I’m from Texas, where being a vegan is grounds for divorce.

But seriously, this guy is a loser bringing out the worst in those around him, as losers so often do. His diet may be healthy and virtuous, but his character is toxic and ill-intentioned. If he were a food he’d be deep-fried panda hearts with side of Ketamine gravy. Get up from his table and go find your better self.

Kim
Kim
6 months ago
Reply to  nomar

Here in FL we joke that the only untouched section in publix when the hurricanes come in is the vegan section.

But seriously….the guy is a liar. He’s problem not even vegan. But even if he was, is having another vegan that important that serial cheating is ok?

Luziana
Luziana
6 months ago

Once when I was young I had to accept that I was not really in a relationship but part of a harem. It does not matter if you are Top Girlfriend. It doesn’t matter if everyone involved is vegan.

if you didn’t consent to the person you believe you have a monogamous relationship with sending out Group Good Morning texts, you’re in a non consensual polycule.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Luziana

I had to look up “polycule”. I thought it was something along the terms of “triangles, rectangles, dodecahedrons”…. No, it wasn’t.

Attie
Attie
6 months ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

I thought it was something your hair grows out of!

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
6 months ago
Reply to  Luziana

Just before I was started dating my now-husband, I went out with a fellow thinking I was possibly starting a monogamous relationship only to learn that he was poly and not considering any other modes of functioning. I suppose he gets points for truthfulness. I was stupid enough to stick around for perhaps another week because I thought that he would see how awesome I am and decide to change. That was silly. My now-husband is an imperfect human who is a committed monogamist and I feel thankful.

Mehitable
Mehitable
6 months ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

I love how they come up with concepts like “poly” as new code words for “horn dog”.

ivyleaguechump
ivyleaguechump
6 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Beware the diseased dick. Yuck.

Geode
Geode
6 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Or ‘sex addict’ instead of pervert.

Apidae
Apidae
6 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

That’s like saying “monogamous” is a code word for “jealous and possessive”.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
6 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

Also puritanical

billiejean
billiejean
6 months ago
Reply to  Luziana

that’s a truth bomb right there

Stepbystep
Stepbystep
6 months ago

“Sometimes I think it’s a control thing for me, sometimes I think it’s low self-esteem or maybe codependency or all of the above? ” Yep, all of the above.

Chumps and children can both mature in a healthy manner when not wasting effort on cheaters. When parents work on themselves, children benefit.

DrDr
DrDr
6 months ago

My FW is a vegetarian and he still sucks. I don’t want to date either. I can read a book instead. Or go to dinner with a lady friend. Or hang out with my kids. Or take a nap. I’ve got options. But living with a liar is not for me.

BattleDancingUnicorn
BattleDancingUnicorn
6 months ago

I think sometimes people like that embrace something perceived as virtuous in order to be forgiven for the shitty things they do. All things are forgiven the hero, as they say.

My FW is such a devout Christian that he was sure he should become a pastor, until his cheating was revealed (oops) and that door closed. Now he thinks he’s some kind of saint because he works in Special Education and all the kids love him. Meanwhile a friend that transferred from my campus to his reported that her first impression of him was that he tries way too hard to get to know all the new female staff.

I suspect that, in this case, veganism is the front he uses to make people around him think he’s a good and virtuous human.

ivyleaguechump
ivyleaguechump
6 months ago

BDU, that makes so much sense.

Shadow
Shadow
6 months ago

Yes, it’s their sheep’s clothing to hide the fact they’re ravening wolves, and even the Devil can appear as an angel of Light!

Mehitable
Mehitable
6 months ago

This is like the kind of guy who goes to feminist rallies so he can meet women. Yup….they’re out there.

Apidae
Apidae
6 months ago

Yes. There are enough of these types around in social justice circles that we have names for them – “manarchist” and “brocialist”. They use their loudly-proclaimed principles and (supposed) activism as a cover to cheat and much worse.

(Of course there are women who behave badly, too. But they don’t generally demand the authority and power of patriarchy while pretending to be “progressive).

Spinach@35
Spinach@35
6 months ago

“I think sometimes people like that embrace something perceived as virtuous in order to be forgiven for the shitty things they do. All things are forgiven the hero, as they say.”

Bingo!

“Ok. I may have lied and cheated, but I gave blood last week. Plasma, too!”

This resonates with me because my ex loved the virtue conferred on him by his work as a physician. What a great screen to hide behind! Even his reason for leaving me was wrapped in virtue. Of the AP/nurse he said, “She and I bonded over taking care of sick patients.” So noble!!! I guess I was expect to bow down.

Formerly Guest
Formerly Guest
6 months ago
Reply to  Spinach@35

Lol ex FW told me he and AP bonded over addiction and helping addicts because FW is a recovering alcoholic and AP’s ex hubby was a drug addict. FW gets a lots of kibbles for working and counselling addicts and helping them to sobriety that i think AP idolised him for it and it gave him a big ego boost.

Little did AP know that though FW is a recovering alcoholic he actually is also a gambling addict which I’ve heard through the grapevine is an active addiction. So she basically traded one addict (her ex hubby) for another (ex FW).

Curlychump
Curlychump
6 months ago

I had a date with a guy that talked about his time volunteering w/kids who were autistic. After the date though, there were too many suspiciously vague parts of his stories. Did a little digging, turns out the guy had quite the record, including a recent DUI arrest. Pretty sure his time “volunteering” was court-ordered.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
6 months ago
Reply to  Curlychump

My ex volunteered at a group for autistic adults, with an organization that presented itself as very “family oriented”. He was not only (of course) a cheater, he had OW come join him as a volunteer while we were still married (and many people in the organization had met me). She, of course, only did it to impress him (while ignoring her own child’s obvious disabilities), and dropped it as soon as they broke up. He was abusive and an absolute monster behind closed doors. He also regularly insulted me for being autistic (he didn’t believe me, even though our son is autistic and in researching it to better understand my son, my whole childhood became clear, and I had TWO medical professionals concur with me [but not an “official” diagnosis, which costs an absurd amount of money], saying “You’re not autistic, you’re JUST AN IDIOT.”). He also tried very hard to hide the fact that our son (a toddler at the time) was autistic, punished him for autistic behaviors, got embarrassed if he had a meltdown in public, etc. Until he figured out that being “autism dad” got him TONS of kibbles. Then he became very public about it. He would drop the fact that he was on the board of directors for the organization to anyone and everyone, thinking that made him an expert. He was also the MC at their events, and, as I said, led the adult social group. But he was ONLY interested in public roles. It was all image management and desiring praise. He got angry at me for not being MORE public (after he’d told me not to tell anyone about our son’s diagnosis), saying I clearly didn’t care as much as he did about our kid. The fact that I helped lots of people whose kids were recently diagnosed didn’t matter, because I did it one-on-one in private, and he couldn’t get any secondhand accolades from my actions.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

Before this comment about autism, did you remember what a dick he was about it? I forgot a lot of things, and then somebody here makes a comment that really rings a bell for me; and then I remember ANOTHER dickish thing he did. And I get pissed all over again.

DrChump
DrChump
6 months ago

I am old enough to remember the old statement you don’t talk about politics, religion ….or dietary preference! Can an inter-dietary relationship survive in this modern time, asking for a friend? Will my lactose intolerance limit me in the dating pool? From reading this it seems it is a priority in picking a romantic partner. As an omnivore will I be the victim of dietary discrimination? Am I limiting my romantic choices?

For the record I have nothing against being a vegan and think it is a healthy diet if one can get enough protein and avoid processed food. I do have something against people who use it to virtue signal

ivyleaguechump
ivyleaguechump
6 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

I have all kinds of weirdo dietary restrictions, none by choice. I refuse to inflict my limited diet on anybody, or make them feel guilty if they include bell peppers in a dish. I just don’t eat it. If all I can have at a dinner is iced tea, that is what I have. Generally I am there for the people, not the food.

Emma Tamburlini
Emma Tamburlini
6 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

How do you feel about people who make choices in life based on knowing and loving that animals are sentient fellow beings and don’t want them to be tortured and killed for a sandwich? It’s not virtue signaling, it’s just a less popular way of viewing life and doing what makes me happy. I don’t tell people about it because people want to keep up with their ways and don’t appreciate thinking about the experience of animals when they’re trying to enjoy chowing down on someone’s leg. I consider it like abuse, the same. It’s very abusive that we discount animals, put them in torturous bloody experiences, hang them upside down, and then slit their throats in front of each other. It’s a horror show that one day hopefully all humans will see as abuse and murder. My ex-FW was only a vegetarian, rather than a vegan, because he liked pizza too much. I consider this part of his selfish, bad character, though I did appreciate that he didn’t want to eat the bodies themselves.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago

See my post about my kids’ allergies to all vegan forms of protein. It’s not always a choice. There are also others who can’t thrive on a vegan diet even with supplementation, something which might relate to the same leaky gut and malabsorption due to various forms of toxic exposure that are also probably causing skyrocketing rates of allergy. So I propose that, if vegans and animal advocates would like to reduce dependency on animal products in diet, one target we can all probably agree on is the microbiome-wrecking chemical shitstorm we’re drowning in.

DrChump
DrChump
6 months ago

HOC sorry you and your children suffer. I don’t know what is going on with food allergies. In my 30 years since med school I have noticed a significant, no exponential rise in allergies and autoimmune disorders. These are related things. I cannot explain the increase by the sole fact that physicians becoming more aware and making the diagnosis more. There is some environmental factor that is influencing this rise. Anecdotally I knew of nobody in my grammar school who had a peanut allergy. That was 900 kids. My son’s 8th grade class had 3 out of 20 kids with legitimate epipen caring peanut allergies.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

Dr. Chump,

Thank you for sharing your professional perspective. At this point we’re used to it and there are some upsides like having to cook mostly at home and everyone having ideal blood pressure, BMIs and zero cavities. And, quite sadly, we have more and more “company” as allergies become the new normal, at least in industrialized countries.

We still hear from people who insist the rise is imaginary. But while some might try argue that the rise in less life-threatening allergies is a case of “increased recognition” (or Munchausen– believe me, we’ve heard that one), it’s impossible to make that argument over peanut allergies without suggesting doctors in the 1960s were so dim they couldn’t recognize death. There was also that airmen study which tested a trove of frozen blood samples from air force members in the 1950s and found that Celiac disease was almost nonexistent compared to modern blood samples.

In any case, we’re the first on both sides of the family to have anything like this. My kids’ pediatrician (73, classically trained and originally from Italy which is apparently experiencing particularly high rates of Celiac) also ties the rise in allergy to the rise in autoimmunity and he’ll frequently say, “No such thing as a genetic epidemic, folks.” I don’t think he’s settled on a single theory but on his podcast he discusses dysbiosis and leaky gut/leaky blood brain barrier caused by the wonders of modern chemistry, particularly pesticides but also “forever chemicals” and a perfect storm of heavy metals, hormone disruptors and synthetic additives.

It’s kind of a mystery how we became exposed since the kids have always been on an organic diet and I’ve never used toxic products but we’re all exposed to pollution and toxins through many routes. I didn’t develop Celiac until after the kids were diagnosed which the doctor said makes sense since families tend to be exposed to the same crap and children are more intensely impacted while adults may take a lifetime to crash.

One of the ways you can tell something is new is the number of people over 40 who still scoff at the rise and assume it’s a bunch of fakers seeking attention because no one remembers these rates from their own childhoods. I can understand the denial because the ramifications are terrifying. I don’t blame the naysayers. My beef is with neoliberalism, agency capture and deregulation.

Adelante
Adelante
6 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

Your question might be tongue in cheek, but, yes, an “inter-dietary relationship” (funny) is possible. I am friends with a couple in which one is vegetarian and the other isn’t. They’re both philosophers with specialities in ethics. They get along fine.

KatiePig
KatiePig
6 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

People who see it as a deal breaker are generally insufferable and should be avoided anyways. I get along very well with all kinds of people who are different than me and the only people it was ever an issue with were my ex and his “friends” who turned out to be his whores anyways.

Decent humans can handle if you have different politics or diet or religion just fine. My boyfriend drinks entirely too much soda and eats entirely too much junk food but the only time it’s an issue is if I happen to clean a toilet after he used it and didn’t clean it and I yell, “My God man, you need to drink more water!” And that’s the extent of the issue.

And before anybody says well why didn’t he clean it? I do not clean the toilet every time I use it either. Ain’t nobody got time for that. We both try to keep up with the cleaning as we can.

Apidae
Apidae
6 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Decent humans can handle if you have different politics or diet or religion just fine

One of those things is not like the others.

Surely you didn’t mean to suggest that “decent humans” overlook it if someone’s politics or religion are hateful to others? That as a member of a minority faith, I’m not a “decent human” if I prefer not to be in a relationship with someone who thinks my faith means I’m un-American or that I should be forcibly converted?

OHFFS
OHFFS
6 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

I was going to post something similar, Apidae, but couldn’t get the site to work yesterday. I hope you’ll still reading so you’ll know you’re not alone in those thoughts. You are right that it was a false comparison and logically unsound to the point of absurdity. For example, I hate fascism. It’s an evil ideology, so why would I want to be around people I consider evil, FFS. With rancid points of view like that, if you tolerate people who hold them, you only embolden them to commit vile deeds. It’s not at all the same as having different lifestyle preferences. We always say here at CL that it’s important to have the same values as our partners. That does not just mean about monogamy. Somebody who is vegan because he/she thinks meat is murder would have a very difficult time being with somebody who passively participates in the killing of animals by eating meat. That is definitely about values. So is religion. Of course you can’t be deeply involved with people who look down on you for your faith. Any fool would know that is untenable.

What KP was saying about “decent people” is arrogant, hypocritical horse puckey. As her response shows, she’s completely intolerant of different points of view to her own and gets mean if you disagree.
A lot of her posts seem to be for the purpose of bragging about how awesome she is and condemning others. When she does say something intelligent I’ve made a point to remark on it, as have others. My thinking was that maybe she’d dial down that rampaging paranoia a bit if she felt accepted. Clearly, it isn’t going to happen and this is the last straw for me. Another time she lumped together people on here with what she calls “evil cunts.” Talk about insufferably intolerant- the projection is massive. Yet people keep high-fiving her. Well, I won’t enable her one minute more. I’m sorry you were verbally abused. As CL says, some chumps do suck. The last thing we need here, after being so mistreated by FWs, is being mistreated by other chumps.

KatiePig
KatiePig
6 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

I think you’re just one of the insufferable people I was referring to. Sorry you’re offended by people with different politics or religions. Sucks to be you I guess.

Apidae
Apidae
6 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

Why would dietary preference mess up your dating life? 99% of the time it’s just going to mean something like your SO drinks a glass of milk and you don’t.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

Well, since you ask… As someone with Celiac disease, I don’t want to kiss someone after they’ve just eaten gluten (or soy which triggers roughly the same reaction). I would ask them to either skip the allergens if they’re looking for action or at least brush their teeth.

I can afford to be bit casual about it because I might only get a sore throat from minor exposure like that but someone with a life-threatening nut allergy can outright die from a kiss. My kids fall in the middle. All three– one in particular– have somewhat more serious reactions to gluten and soy (stabbing gut pain and neurological symptoms– the darker end of Celiac) and will have to bear this in mind when they’re ready to date. But, to be honest, it’s a great way to filter out callous or irresponsible narcs. If the kids find themselves puking or unable to sleep for a week after kissing someone, I doubt they’re going to ride that bull a second time. 😉

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
6 months ago

If somebody batter rams clearly stated boundaries ? Next…

Apidae
Apidae
6 months ago

Sure, but Dr. Chump was not talking about celiac disease or food allergens. You’re in the 1% of the time that it absolutely matters.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

Actually the low-ball estimate for food allergies are about 8% among kids and rising every year. Those are only the ones that can be medically measured and doesn’t get into non-IGE or “neuroallergies” which are also apparently on the rise.

Regardless, your point was to wonder what problems dietary habits can create in relationships. In our experience, a fuck-load. It doesn’t make any sense and, believe me, I’ve been blindsided by it. It’s pretty amazing how many people are as defensive about dietary habits as they are about religion and partisan politics. From what we’ve seen, most of the pressure and contempt towards eating habits is aimed at anyone whose diet diverges from the standard American one whether from choice or necessity. We’ve gotten endless shit over it and it’s even caused permanent rifts in extended family. Most of the families I know with allergic kids have experienced the same.

But here’s the funny bit: we’ve also gotten shit from militant vegans who, because my kids are allergic to all vegan forms of protein, have occasionally suggested I should let my kids die because they have no more right to live than the animals they consume (not joking). I think it’s hilarious that these folks think of themselves as underdogs and outliers but are really only echoing the same level of exclusionary judgment and contempt that many in the mainstream express in defense of their packaged mac & cheese, Kit Kat bars and Oscar Meyer preferences.

My kids ask me why people are like this. I don’t know what to tell them other than that they should all be stuck in a Sputnik together and launched into outer space to duke it out into eternity. Anyway, as to your question– all kinds of relationship problems stem from food. Go figure.

Doingme
Doingme
6 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

This! I hosted ten of my granddaughter’s friends for beachside celebration. There were vegans, keto and celiac diets to consider. I managed to create all inclusive meals and everyone was accommodated.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

Amen– it’s the “virtue signalling” that’s the issue. I don’t have a problem with people indicating their values as a way to gather like minds but that’s different than opportunistically disguising lousy character with virtuous traits. Sometimes terrible people aren’t even consciously “signalling” virtue but truly invest in an image of themselves based on some stray bit of selective empathy. For instance, as an advocate for domestic violence survivors, I learned that no one cries over lost puppies in the pound or landmine victims half a world away more than domestic batterers. It’s the same dynamic as Hitler and his vegetarianism and animal protection laws or the fictional Tony Soprano and his ducks.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

I’m a bit lactose intolerant. And other than my partner staying downwind of me when I eat ice cream, we get along fine. If that was a deal breaker, then I’d happily be single! He ain’t perfect either.

Grandma Chump
Grandma Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

Forgive me, but I think you mean upwind (out of range.) Downwind means he’d be in the line of fire; i.e. downwind is the direction that the wind is blowing. Cute phrasing, anyway.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
6 months ago
Reply to  Grandma Chump

💨🤣

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Grandma Chump

Oh yes! You’re correct!

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
6 months ago

The unmarried,

I hope that this does not sound too harsh, but …….. it’s not that you don’t want to date; more that you aren’t ready to date and that you shouldn’t date. You need to work on yourself and rediscover your self-worth (and you are worth more than you know, and certainly worth more than your FW thinks judging by his behaviour) and – perhaps – learn to set the bar a little higher. Given that you appear to have no legal ties with your Cheater, in your shoes I’d be ditching him and going no contact.

As as for your Cheater being a vegan …… I’m all for ethical dietary choices, but that only goes so far when it comes to choosing/staying with a partner.

LFTT

Stephen
Stephen
6 months ago

OMG! How many women I’ve gone out with just like this person… I just can’t figure it out and decided it is me – I need to do a better job at enforcing my boundaries. For example, “you mean you got divorced and then after you started dating you stayed with a guy like that for a year?” The story told above is a boundary of boundaries.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Stephen

I’m a little confused. So you’re saying that you’re trying to steer clear of former chumps who remain in denial? Is it the baggage you avoid or a sneaking suspicion that people who too often eat shit sandwiches have character problems of their own?

I can relate to the latter bit. I’ve shied away from people who were abused by family members and yet remain closely tied to their abusers or who were abused in relationships and still pine over or voluntarily stay in contact with abusive exes. People like that will often commit abuse in their own rights or, at the very least, seem to constantly have dangerous people in their orbits. I fired a nanny when I found out she remained financially and emotionally dependent on the same dad who’d beaten her up as a kid. Learning this sort of tied together my discomfort about certain strange attitudes and behaviors on the part of the nanny and the growing feeling that she wasn’t safe to leave the kids with. It wasn’t the fact she had been abused but the way she processed it that was the issue. I also cut ties with two people who, though both were handed opportunities by the court to take 100% custody from violent exes who also abused or neglected or endangered children, chose not to because they’d lose out on free babysitting (the reason given in both cases), thus forcing their children (and everyone around them) into contact with these dangerous exes. Terrible situations because you want to save the kids but, in both cases, I was shocked and terrified that these women had put my family in the position of letting their thug exes pick their kids up from my house. I made the decision to cut ties after finding out (from the kids, not the mothers) that one of these exes had thrown his daughter down a stairwell and broken her arm at age 7 and that the other had recently made gun threats. Even if these moms hadn’t been given chances to take full custody, the fact that neither were forthcoming about how incredibly violent and scary their exes were constituted a serious failure to warn. I learned later that one of those moms had started dating a married cheater and the other ended up in the news for dating a criminal hacker.

What are you going to do with people who’ve internalized abuse to the point that they trail danger in their wakes or become dangerous themselves? Being too “diplomatic” towards evil is a red flag and it can sometimes border on hybristophilia. But, on the other hand, some of the best, smartest, funniest and wisest people I know have lived down and processed past experiences of abuse or entrapment. The difference is that the latter know what’s what and have done everything they can to burn all the “bridges to danger.” Because over a third of women will have been violently abused at least once in prior intimate relationships and a far higher number of people will have been emotionally abused either in families of origin or partnerships, avoiding anyone who’d ever been entrapped would be like avoiding hanging out with racial minorities who’d ever experienced racism or maybe, say, stayed too long in jobs where they were discriminated against. All I ask is that people learn from misfortune, do what they can to avoid repeats and call a spade a spade when it comes to identifying abusers and abusive behavior.

Shadow
Shadow
6 months ago

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head HOAC…AGAIN!
I would see what you’re describing as leniency bordering on sinful. Leniency towards evil is considered a sin in itself in my faith and it means a undue tolerance of evil deeds that enables and even encourages the evil doer, helping to cause yet more pain , damage and sometimes, death.
Edmund Bourke comes to my mind “The only thing needed for evil to thrive is for good men ( and women) to do nothing.”!
Leniency is not doing what is in your power to stop evil, even if it’s only going NC with the evil doer, and I suspect that’s what repelled you about those you describe. Not only were they not doing anything to prevent evil, such as going NC, they were choosing to benefit from it in some way or another!
I think you did the right thing to sack the nanny and cut ties with those friends. As well as being a bit character deficient themselves, they could have drawn evil doers on you and your children. Fair play to you and I hope I will always have the sense and courage to do the same if and when I need to!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
6 months ago
Reply to  Shadow

Amen. Enablers trail disaster behind them. If you see this play out enough times, it eventually seems like the natural choice to cut them off. But I understand that it may not seem so obvious to less experienced people who think “going along to get along” is an unquestionable virtue. So let them experience the Kumbaya learning curve on their own time and pay the price out of their own pockets. I’ve graduated and have paid enough in tuition. 😀

portia
portia
6 months ago

I struggle with this issue in my FOO. My parents were raised in a culture that I would not want to duplicate for my children. The way they raised me and my siblings was full of things I did not want to duplicate. My siblings and I reacted in different ways to our parent’s crazy actions. I rebelled and fled asap. I actually had to go extremely low contact with my dad, because of his continued verbal abuse and inability to apologize. Each child ended up on a different path. My youngest sister has some form of depression (she’s very vague and won’t talk about it) and she has started duplicating my dad’s closet alcoholism and verbal assaults. She also will not take responsibility or apologize. We are estranged.

My problem is I still love them, and recognize good things about each one, along with the bad. I’m sure they have similar feelings about me. But I reached a point where I just cannot allow the abuse anymore. When I was parenting, I recognized my worst moments, and apologized to my children. Other times I held an unpopular line of discipline with them because I believed it was for their protection. Those things my children later came back to me and told me they were glad I maintained those boundaries. They eventually understood why I made those difficult choices.

But we all have to develop a way to deal with love/hate moments with people who are “family” or “friends”. It is a constant work in progress. I cannot find a way to completely close a door to my family members, even though the logical part of my brain tells me they will probably never change some of their destructive behavior. I live with the knowledge my youngest sister is a good candidate for suicide. I already lost one brother who was too stubborn to seek medical help he needed. My mother is trapped in a prison called Dementia. I still love them, and at least now I have the legal power to care for my mother. But I am forced to love my family from afar to maintain my own sanity boundaries. It is a difficult path to walk.

I understand why it is difficult to leave abusers. When you learn your “normal” is not normal, you have to develop the strength to get away from the dysfunction. It is nice to know that there is support out there while you have to painfully extricate yourself from a terrible experience or situation.

Wendy Short
Wendy Short
6 months ago

Is the picture up the top him? He looks very angry 😡

Orlando
Orlando
6 months ago

What an awful character to have around her son, just because this dude orbits around once-in-awhile & throws some attention their way?! This is the stuff that messes kids up! Ugh. Bad Fail, Mom. Bad Fail.

❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
6 months ago

Ever since my daughter began going to school, I have told every one of her teachers that what is important to me is

1) her physical/mental/emotional/psychological health

2) her character

3) academic achievements

In that order.

Without the first two, the third is not worth very much. IMHO.

I started work as a housekeeper when I was in college. I worked for a lot of people with impressive academic credentials and careers, and financial success who were of pretty crummy character. It made an impression on me about what was valuable. Of what value is a gilded apple if the insides are rotten? Character is the real estate of a soul, not degrees or careers or a bank account, or an address, or what someone drives, or who you know. And to me, lying to and cheating on and betrayal of those nearest and dearest is number one on the list of indicators that someone has a big black hole where a heart and a soul should be.

All relationships have problems. I was advised to look for a partner I could work through problems with. I end unhappy relationships after exhausting all avenues to communicate and resolve problems. Lying and cheating and betrayal on my part has never been on the roster of problems. Do I have issues? Hell to the yes. But doing things I know will hurt someone is not one of them. Only yesterday, I flipped off someone tailgating me at 70 mph. I was unable to change lanes and let them pass. As soon as I could, I moved over. As they angrily sped past me, I flipped them off. My hand was BELOW the window. The anger belonged to me. My problem. Maybe that person was in a hurry to get to the hospital because someone was dying. That happened to me once. Today I will practice not flipping a tailgater off, even if out of sight.

I live near the Gettys. THE Gettys. Wealthy, philanthropic, altruistic, educated. Or are they? It was revealed that Gordon Getty had a secret second family in Southern California. I don’t think much of his show of altruism and philanthropy any more. Poverty of the soul and spirit with cash to burn. The man with integrity who has nothing in the bank is richer than he will ever be. IMHO.

I thought I married someone with a good heart with the priorities I mentioned above. The secret sexual double
life proved him to be just another con artist who wears a Nice Guy mask. And the individual he left us for is wearing a mask too. Some people are cool with that. Not me.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
6 months ago

Didn’t Balthazaar Getty get caught up in a cheating scandal a number of years back as well?

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
6 months ago
Reply to  CurlyChump

Different branch of the Getty family.

Two of Gordon and Ann’s four sons died in early middle age of drug addiction. I discovered a hilarious vlog on YT by a Jamaican/British woman who understands personality disorders and addiction yet gives a pass on “cheating is abuse”. She claimed Gordon and Ann had a solid marriage 😳. Rich people/the upper class have arrangements, blah, blah. Ann died recently and Gordon’s relationship with his daughters’ baby mama has soured and turned acrimonious. Talk about effed up.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
6 months ago

Andrew died at age 47 of an ulcer and heart disease caused by meth use. John died of a fentanyl overdose in 2021 at age 52.

FYI
FYI
6 months ago

“He is known for his career and so he has that power that a lot of women want … ”

Come ON now! Seriously, has feminism not reached this LW at all? No, “a lot of women” don’t want a lying jackhole.

thelongrun
thelongrun
6 months ago
Reply to  FYI

My FW XW did! I think it’s great. Her and her AP (now “life” partner) are such well-matched fuckwits. They’re happily hanging out together in the bottom of life’s character pool. Here’s to hoping they drown. Metaphorically, of course!🤣

Involuntary Georgian
Involuntary Georgian
6 months ago
Reply to  FYI

There are 4 billion women in the world. Even if only a tiny fraction of a percent of them want “that power”, we’re still talking about millions and millions. That’s legitimately “a lot” – or more importantly, it’s definitely enough there will always be another one available to OP’s boyfriend.

Mehitable
Mehitable
6 months ago
Reply to  FYI

Basically what she’s saying is there are a lot of women gold brickers too and people who want to sleep their way to the middle.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 months ago

Seriously… “but he doesn’t eat kittens”… that’s the bar… he’s a vegan. PERFECT.

I empathize though, I stayed through multiple d-days under the guise of “for the children” and keeping an “intact family”… he discarded me anyway.

But, where I took the road less traveled was that I found CL and CN and I reframed how I was looking at the situation and definitely what choices I was going to make going forward.

I realized I had a nine year old son, and arguably teenage children, watching me. Was I going to show them what resiliency looks like or what abuse looks like? You are currently showing your son that abusing a woman and her child is ok… married or not, is that what you want for your son? I’m eight years out and when I watch how my son treats his girlfriend – I know I broke the cycle of his father. That means more to me than fucking a cheating vegan, but I’m old-fashioned that way.

We don’t often talk about the kids here – except for when they’ve been victimized by the Fuckwit. I know we have some members who are children of Chumps – maybe you all could weigh in here?

Not Married – you matter… married or not. Do better for YOU and your son. Dump the cheater.

SortOfOverIt
SortOfOverIt
6 months ago

“I know we have some members who are children of Chumps – maybe you all could weigh in here?”

When we stay with abusive partners of any type, it can teach our kids that abuse is normal. It can cause them to end up in similar or worse situations because it feels familiar and hence, comfortable. I don’t really love saying that because I know that leaving an abuser is often very hard and sometimes frequently very dangerous. I don’t want to appear to be judging anyone that struggles to leave, because I very much understand that. But it doesn’t change the fact that it can have lifelong repercussions for your kids. It did for me. I don’t blame my mom. I understand why she made the choices she did. But it took me decades to realize I needed to unlearn what I learned from watching her.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
6 months ago
Reply to  SortOfOverIt

Thanks for sharing… and sending hugs of support for your recovery from that childhood trauma.

Chumpasaurus45
Chumpasaurus45
6 months ago

It doesn’t matter how impressive your job title is, it doesn’t define your integrity.
It would be incredibly helpful if one’s employment did define a person’s character. ( doctor, priest, POTUS, HS coach, author of childrens books, lawyer) And you were able to depend on ppl living up to those respected roles. ( a strong desire to improve the health of mankind, God’s right hand man on earth, unselfish love and betterment of country, vocation to educate kids, living the belief of justice for all)
But we have way too many examples in society every single day of “ you can’t judge a book by its cover”.
In fact, the criminals pick their own book covers so they can commit the crimes. It’s who they are!
There are evil vegans and outstanding vegans, great boyfriends and very shitty bfs.
You seem to have found a serial cheating vegan with an admirable job. Since there are no good and bad serial cheaters, they all unanimously suck, it makes it easy. But they are saving endangered species you say? Nope, they cheat, they suck.
“Is this relationship acceptable to you?” You know that answer. You wouldn’t be writing to the queen of leave the cheaters if you didn’t already know.
So do the right thing, dump his vegan ass, fix your broken picker and don’t dream of dating until serial cheating would be such a sky high flaming red flag for you and an automatic bail.
For the simplest of reasons really, you know your worth. Let you son know it too.

Doingme
Doingme
6 months ago

She’s single and cannot relate to the chump experience. Rather, she justifies being the OW. The power isn’t over the accomplished cheater; it’s over the innocent spouse. Another run of the mill needy OW.

ChumpedForANewerModel
ChumpedForANewerModel
6 months ago

Unmarried, Nope you are not unique. You have a lying cheater on your hands. The man maybe a vegan but he is a Fuckwit or a Vegan Fuckwit if you prefer. You are a chump like most of us here. That is reality. You are also not healthy even though you may have an excellent diet. You are allowing yourself to be used and abused. That is not healthy, and it is not healthy to model that for your kid. Kick the cheater out and be physically and mentally healthy. You will not regret it.

damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
6 months ago

a fuckvit

#wordplay

Granny K
Granny K
6 months ago

“What’s wrong with me?”

Well, what do you think is wrong with you that you deserve this kind of behavior? Another question I think you should ask yourself: are you the kind of person that thinks it’s better to be with someone and feel lonely, or to be alone?

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 months ago

Ok now, let’s not pick on vegans. It’s ok to be vegan. I
t’s not ok to be a cheating vegan.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
6 months ago

I think people are picking on the fact that some vegans will flaunt that virtue but still have other deep character flaws that make them unsuitable romantic partners.

ChumpedForANewerModel
ChumpedForANewerModel
6 months ago

Agree, it is not okay to be a Fuckwit vegan or not.😁

Chumpoolicious
Chumpoolicious
6 months ago

Yes I agree with CL. You are not married, and he is a terrible influence on your child. I would dump him. It is traumatic for your son to bond with him and then he disappears, or does not put the child first. You should put your child first. Dont introduce your son to men you date. Your child should feel he is your top priority. You want to continue dating this looser, fine by me. You can do that with out your son knowing. Hide the men. When your son is 18, then you can start dating in the open. There is no commitment from the cheater. You are not married. He did not make vows to you. He can date as many or as few as he likes. So can you. I would encourage you to date other men. Why limit yourself to this one loser? He has an open door policy so should you. Maybe you will meet some nice men, who value you and want monogamy. But you will never know if you limit yourself to this one loser. There are so many eligible nice men out there who will value you. I dont understand why you tolerate that.

Apidae
Apidae
6 months ago

“What’s wrong with me?” is not the correct question. “What steps should I take to end this awful relationship?” is the correct question.

Yes, eventually you need to work on your picker. But if you are focused on fixing yourself, then you can justify staying in the relationship. Get out of the burning building FIRST. Only THEN do you stop to figure out why you ignored the fire alarm.

2xchump🚫again
2xchump🚫again
6 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

This this!!!!! Profound! Get out! Then figure out what’s wrong with you! Amen!!!

2xchump🚫again
2xchump🚫again
6 months ago

You cannot run these enough. The story of us chumps and our cheaters just rewinds and rewinds again. Same song,🎵different verses. But but he’s a Christian,A doctor a lawyer, he does rain dances and plays with my kids on the floor with toy trucks!!!! He’s nice to me! I know I set my bar low on potential on hopium on wallpapering over black mold. Very pretty floral wall paper but still…THEN the point comes when you get that STD or he hurts you ENOUGH or you decide to SAY NO and you are dropped just like that. I know I did dumpster diving for many many years, trying to find that golden person I just knew was down there at the bottom. But the trash I had to dig through to get that one good weekend, that next calm vacation, became overwhelming. A 2 year STI, coercion, rages, silent treatment. I begged, I cried..all that.
My sad motto is…when the pain of leaving outweighs the comfort staying, then you will take your life and your pride back and your self esteem and your courage and mightiness back. I finally finally did after a 32 year marriage and a cheating first husband too. I got my life back

This Shit is Not My Story
This Shit is Not My Story
6 months ago

I actually understand the OP adding in the cheater is a vegan. For all of the micro aggressions in the comments below, I bet she just wants someone to leave her alone about what she eats. So great that so many of you have such strong opinions about being vegan. To others it’s a simple word that says so much about the things a person values (possibly health, environmental issues, waste, etc.).
Bully for you claiming that everyone in your state shares your murderous appetites. Bon appetit!

marissachump
marissachump
6 months ago

I dunno, I’ve run across a lot of asshole vegans.

There are more non-asshole vegan fish in the sea,

This Shit is Not My Story
This Shit is Not My Story
6 months ago
Reply to  marissachump

Good point. I’ve run into a lot of asshole meat-eaters too. And lots that aren’t.
If folks would just worry about their own diet instead of criticizing others, this writer might not have felt the need to use being vegan as a character trait.

Shadow
Shadow
6 months ago

Exactly1 I don’t mind if people are vegan, veggie (I used to be veggie) or carnivores, so long as they don’t lecture me nor try to make me change my eating habits to suit them.
I do suspect though, that some vegans are so because they despise their fellow human beings, and regard human life as no more valuable than the lowest of insect life, never mind sacred. The horrible people HOAC discussed who told basically told her she should put her kids at risk of horrific, painful deaths rather to save a few cattle and hens would be examples of such hateful people, the sort I’d give a massive swerve to!

marissachump
marissachump
6 months ago

“If folks would just worry about their own diet instead of criticizing others, this writer might not have felt the need to use being vegan as a character trait.”

Full agree. I have to follow a very careful medical diet in order to not have serious symptom flares that could put me in the hospital. This means I had to switch from vegetarian to eating a lot of meat because I can no longer eat any non-meat protein source. People seriously just need to worry about their own dietary needs and not police others for theirs.

There are definitely a lot assholes in every category of diet or otherwise.

susie lee
susie lee
6 months ago

I remember being lectured in Sam’s once about the pork chops I had in my cart. I just ignored her, I stifled the urge to tell her she looks like a pasty cut out, with no energy.

It is the height of ignorance to approach any stranger and start force lecturing them, I don’t give a shit what the subject is or how passionate or righteous you are, or think you are.

KatiePig
KatiePig
6 months ago

I can’t be nice about this kind of bullshit. “Oh, he’s in my special group! He must be a good person no matter what horrible things he does then!”

I’m a Christian. Do you know what I think should happen to a Christian (or anyone else for that matter) who touches a child? I think they should be skinned alive and then strung up naked in a forest for the animals and insects to eat. I don’t give them a fucking pass.

I think of all the people who gave my ex a pass for meeting an 11 year old for sex because he’s a liberal feminist and I want to fucking vomit. This is a disgusting and moronic attitude. Anyone who finds themselves thinking like that needs to seriously check themselves, grow the hell up, accept basic logic and accountability into their life, and fucking stop. People of whatever little group you value so much, whether it’s political, religious, or your fucking diet, shouldn’t get a pass for being pieces of shit.

Shadow
Shadow
6 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Hear, hear KP!
I think all CMs should be locked away from society until death at the very least. Those who torture, rape and then murder children? Well. Our Lord said something about tying millstones round their necks and throwing them into the depths of the sea!
I sometimes wonder why, in 2000 years of Christendom, no country ever dealt out this form of justice to CMs? I know Gilles De Rai was eventually burnt at the stake, but that was for black magic and because he slipped up and raped and murdered an aristocrat’s child! When he was only raping and murdering peasant boys, no one gave a toss! There was no justice for them nor their poor parents!
I suspect that the reason certain sexual crimes are dealt with so leniently, is because many in positions of power and authority are also no better than they ought to be!
It also explains why adultery is viewed with nowhere near the disgust and revulsion it should be by society and the powers-that-shouldn’t be!
GOD hates adultery and CSA though, so we, as Christians, are also bound to hate those acts!

Kokichi
Kokichi
6 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Can’t wait to party with you in Heaven. We have some serious F-ed-up notes to compare.

❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
6 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Katie Pig, Little Hammer and I are virtually high-fiving you while yelling, “F**k yeah!”

susie lee
susie lee
6 months ago

I couldn’t find where she said she was an OW.

Mehitable
Mehitable
6 months ago

Well, if this woman….the vegan….doesn’t care about cheating, or it’s a minor point for her like leaving the lid up on the toilet, she might just be using this relationship to avoid an in depth relationship. Maybe a cheating vegan is all she needs, in which case I don’t know why she’s writing to CL. She knows what she has, she accepts it, he’s not gonna change so……that’s the way life is gonna be. Some people do seem to accept cheating even if they seem to view it like dandruff. I don’t get it but that’s their choice.

Mehitable
Mehitable
6 months ago

“He is known for his career and so he has that power that a lot of woman want and uses it for his advantage.
CL: Yuck. Are you dating Harvey Weinstein?”

Well….a lot of women DID actually and I think he was married more than once and many leading actresses fawned over him for years and THEY ALL KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING and they accepted it. As long as people accept cheating….adultery we should call it because cheating is what you do on your diet…..it’s gonna get a big hall pass from society. It gets winked at till 50 women or so come out and say how they were abused by a scumbag.

susie lee
susie lee
6 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

“THEY ALL KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING and they accepted it.”

I hate to single out one of them but every time I hear or see Myrl Streep, my stomach turns. There are many others but MS was one I had admired for her talent for years.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
6 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

A reason I can’t stand Angelica Huston. She’s Hollywood royalty and did nothing when Roman Polanski had a thirteen year old GIRL behind a closed bedroom door when Angelica and Roman were houseguests at the same place. Barf. And Whoopi Goldberg has yet to understand what the big deal is.

portia
portia
6 months ago

I really wish that people would not feel “less than” because they are unmarried. I have been single, married, and am currently divorced (and they are dead!) and I can tell you I have been happier since my last divorce than I ever was at any other time in my life. It’s not that you cannot be happy and married, it is that you don’t have to be married to be happy.

I don’t really seek marriage. Companionship would be nice, but married or not, if I decide to be in a sexual relationship with someone, it will need to be monogamous. I really don’t care what choices others make – they can be poly, bi, or any variety of preference their hearts desire, as long as they are truthful about it. Even though I may not be “cool” I just know who I am, and what I would want, if I ever change my mind and date again. But I know I am not “less than” because I am not married. Been there, done that, burned the T-shirt. OK?

As for dietary choice, or other lifestyles and habits, it seems to me the more you have in common with someone the fewer arguments there will be. I’m in the last part of my life, and I don’t want to spend my time arguing, or trying to convince someone how to live their life. Every choice has consequences. Try to make good choices that you can live with. I cannot think of a single reason to stay with a partner who lies, steals, or cheats on you. The bad has to outweigh the good in that case! At least, that was the conclusion I came to.

susie lee
susie lee
6 months ago
Reply to  portia

I just finished a visit with my two girl cousins that I had not seen in forever. One about 25 years ago, the other since HS. L and V.

Both divorced. L was cheated on and left by her fw husband two years after I was by mine. She never remarried. She has had a rich full life and I have no doubt she never really wanted to remarry. I am so proud of her, she is a fed judge and retired just last summer. I thought I would be intimidated as I had not talked to her in so long. Nope just like HS, we laughed and caught up. V was divorced sooner that L or I. She is pretty sure her fw wasn’t a cheater, but he was a miser, and a controller. One day after about 12 years, she came home and he had thrown out a lot of her stuff and re-arranged all her kitchen items; she just packed her bags, her two girls and walked away. She has owned a couple businesses (hair stylist) and now works part time for a bank. Same thing, she never wanted to remarry. Both have had some romances, and certainly a full life. L and I are both 73 and V is 70.

They made a special trip to visit me several states away, because we have had so much loss in the family with my two brothers, L’s sister and brother and then my H and I having health issues. I sure appreciate it.

And here is the best part, they travel together, and have such a good relationship. They live fairly close together, and their mothers were real close also.

I agree you can be happy no matter what. I don’t regret getting remarried, even though I thought I wouldn’t. I feel so blessed that H and I found each other. But, we took a long time to really know each other. But I also have no doubt if I hadn’t remarried, I would have lived a content life.

bread&roses
bread&roses
6 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

Thanks for sharing that story and example, Susie Lee. It was really nice to read you had such a good reunion, and it strikes me that your cousins have much richer, freer and more connected lives and relationships than they would have, had they stayed with those FW’s. Also, sorry to hear you and your husband are experiencing health issues and that you’ve been experienced so much loss recently. Sending hugs across the internet.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
6 months ago
Reply to  portia

“I really wish that people would not feel “less than” because they are unmarried. I have been single, married, and am currently divorced (and they are dead!) and I can tell you I have been happier since my last divorce than I ever was at any other time in my life. It’s not that you cannot be happy and married, it is that you don’t have to be married to be happy.”

TRUTH. I am in the exact same place (FW is died before we were officially divorce, but I still say I’m divorced). I have never been happier, and I will never marry again, even if I find someone I want to be with (LOL, not likely).

Small correction – bisexual people can be (and often are) monogamous. Just because we are attracted to both sexes doesn’t mean we can’t be faithful to the person we choose to be with, no matter which gender they are. No different from a straight person choosing one man or woman and “forsaking all others”. It’s not like an itch we have to scratch and get sex from both. It’s just that either is a possible partner for us. I’m bi, and I was with one man and 100% faithful to him for 15 years (even though I’m actually more often attracted to women). I chose him and married him and vowed my fidelity. But now that I’m single again, I’m as open to dating a woman as I am to dating another man.

OHFFS
OHFFS
6 months ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

“Small correction – bisexual people can be (and often are) monogamous. Just because we are attracted to both sexes doesn’t mean we can’t be faithful to the person we choose to be with, no matter which gender they are. No different from a straight person choosing one man or woman and “forsaking all others”. It’s not like an itch we have to scratch and get sex from both. It’s just that either is a possible partner for us.”

Absolutely. I had to correct somebody on this point here not long ago. I do not think Portia was implying that bisexual people can’t be monogamous, though.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
6 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

She seemed to be contrasting it with monogamy, based on the sentence structure (“if I decide to be in a sexual relationship with someone, it will need to be monogamous. I really don’t care what choices others make – they can be poly, bi, or any variety of preference their hearts desire, as long as they are truthful about it.” ), so I think she may have been.

In any case, it’s an important distinction. A lot of people (men, in particular) hear “bi” and think that means we’re into threesomes or orgies or something.

portia
portia
6 months ago
Reply to  ISawTheLight

I did not intend to say if you are not heterosexual and monogamous that you would be a cheater. I believe people should be honest about who they are and what they want. I believe you can be bi and still choose to be faithful to your partner. But I also believe if you are hetero, bi or poly or whatever else you are and feel you cannot be monogamous you should be honest before committing to a relationship. Let your prospective partner know what they are really committing to in a relationship.

My ex’s both knew how I felt about monogamy and promised it. Neither was capable of it. I believe they knew that going in, and decided I was so useful to them that they would pretend to be, or believed they could convert me to their desire system at some point. I came to this belief when I realized I was being cheated on and started untangling the skein. I became convinced that if you are entitled, and a liar, you will cheat and you feel no remorse. You might be sorry you were caught or have to face consequences. But you never intend to change who you are because you are quite happy with what you “get” from various relationships.

Obviously, I am hetero and monogamous. I have to speculate about other points of view. I have friends who are lesbian, and they cannot envision a relationship with someone who is not a lesbian. They still have the same problems I do with trusting another person to be honest about their intentions. We are still close friends because we know what to expect from our relationship — it is friendship without sex.

My problem with most hetero men in my age range is they do not understand being merely friends has many benefits. They expect sex if they “date”. I would rather pay for my own dinner and remain friends. They do not understand my point of view, which is that sexual desire may or may not develop, over time and shared experience, but should be discussed and entered into willingly, not as an “expectation of dating.” They want a time limit for their “wait”. If we eat dinner together 4 times, will you be ready then? If I get a question like that, the answer will likely be “probably not”!!!

I may not be “ideal girlfriend” material anymore, but at least I am honest. I also am happy about who I have become. I don’t feel the need to have a man designated as mine to be happy. That is very liberating for me.

OHFFS
OHFFS
6 months ago

It’s not like there’s a vegan shortage. I think the real reason is contained in the words; “I am a single mother.” and; “He has that power that a lot of women want.”
Power = money. She stuck around because, as a single mom, she likely needed his dough. I can’t blame her for that, since nobody wants to be a poor single mom, but there are guys with sufficient income who aren’t cheaters.

justme
justme
6 months ago

Being on your own can be scary. Being in danger of turning your son into a fuckwit? This should be terrifying. Dump the horrific example. This is not the roll model you should want for your son. Therapy is a good idea. With the right person, it can help you become you. It should equip you with tools to help you in keeping you and your son safe. Live your life. Stop centering this FW. Center yourself instead. Luck.

luckychump
luckychump
6 months ago

Hello Unmarried. I don”t see this as a “virtue signaling issue” I see this as a possible issue of your personal attachment style. There are three different types ie., Secure. Avoidant. Anxious. Disorganized. I suspect you are avoidant, and this FW is just “easy” for you. No questions regarding meals or lifestyle. It doesn’t mean he’s good for you or worth your time, energy or the possible exposure to STDs. BTW, get tested.

luckychump
luckychump
6 months ago
Reply to  luckychump

correction, four styles of attachment, three considered disordered.