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Dear Chump Lady, My husband wants to date

sobbingDear Chump Lady,

Am I being unreasonable for having a problem with my husband’s ongoing relationship with a woman he tried unsuccessfully to seduce?

One night about a year ago, we both got home from our respective jobs and my husband burst into tears. I’m talking, deep, rasping sobs. With his head on my lap he told me he’d been courting a coworker for a few months, buying her gifts and taking secret time off of work to take her on day trips. When he finally put the moves on her the previous evening (he often stays late), she shut him down and said, “not going to happen.”

At first I thought his tears were bitter tears of remorse, having almost ruined a twenty-year marriage. But upon further probing, I discovered that it was the rejection that had him crying in my lap. “Just once I want to be loved!” Excuse me, hello? Who said “I do” in front of our family, our pastor, and our entire church? He explained that he was having trouble forgiving me for my initial rejection of him when we were in high school and then he dumped a laundry list of problems he had with me that could circle the planet three times.

He said the almost-OW made him feel alive. I asked, “well then sweetie, shall we separate?” He said no, there was no point. Oh well then, allow me to be your consolation prize! Long story short, we separated for nine months. Our fifteen-year-old son was furious with both of us. My husband and I stayed in touch and tried to work it out. He and the almost-OW never had sex and now we’re back together.

However… he has remained very good friends with the almost-OW. He texts her regularly right in front of me. I won’t stoop to snooping on his phone but I can see what he’s writing! It’s mildly flirtatious, which is how, incidentally, he describes their relationship. I’m positive they haven’t had sex because this woman is perfectly happy to be worshiped for free, but I have a serious problem with their relationship. When my husband announced that he was going to meet her after work for drinks last night, I made a very snarky remark and he was furious. He told me the courtesy of telling me he was going to spend time with her was over. He maintains that he is doing absolutely nothing wrong, they are just friends, and that I’m being petty. So, am I the one being a jerk about this? Technically he hasn’t cheated.


Insensitive Lady-Jerk

Dear Perfectly Reasonable Lady,

Technically, you haven’t stuffed his balls down his throat yet.

Is this a question about technicalities? Because uh, technically you’re still his wife and technically, he’s not supposed to go on dates until you are technically divorced.

He’s got some fucking nerve.

Sobbing about his failed dating strategies? You let this man drape his moist, snotty self all over your lap and wail about another woman?

Look, Lady, he’s a flaming asshole, but you have to stop being a chump. You separated and then took him back without any consequences or boundaries. He meets her for drinks? No, he meets her for CAKE. This whole “I’m going on dates and you’re not the boss of me!” is completely unacceptable. Start ACTING like it is unacceptable to you. Lawyer up. Why does he think you separated? Because you’re just mean like that? NO. Because he was openly trying to have an affair in front of you. He’s moves home, and then he goes right back to the same old shit?

Is this relationship ACCEPTABLE to YOU? Who cares if he thinks you are “petty” — do you think this kind of flagrant disrespect belongs in a marriage? If you don’t, then get to a lawyer’s office. You don’t need a marriage counselor to explain to him that dating other women in front of you and then whinging about it is wrong. If he’s that dim, you should divorce him for felony stupid.

No, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He’s being abusive. He’s being very in-your-face about his attempted infidelities to hurt you. To goad you into the pick me dance. To humiliate you. To belittle you into accepting his cake-eating as Right and Proper.

Lady, you need to shut that shit down.

For one thing, get to a lawyer fast before his employer does. You only have his side of this kibble love affair. For all you know, his advances are unwelcome and that woman is seeing an EEOC officer as we speak. This guys is walking the razor’s edge of a sexual harassment lawsuit. You need to get a settlement in place before he loses his job. She told him “not gonna happen” — next she’ll be telling that to Human Resources.

I’m sorry your 15 year old is in the middle of this, but he’s a kid and he doesn’t get to call the shots in your marriage. Staying with this asshole is modeling TERRIBLE things to him about how you treat a marriage partner. He needs to see you stand up and not tolerate abuse. He needs to see that there are consequences to disrespecting and endangering the people we purport to love. He might not like it at first. Kids want to know if their world is going to be safe (where will I spend holidays? will I see my mom and dad both? will I move away from my friends?) Get him some therapy and be the sane parent.

It doesn’t matter if the affair was physical or not, start calling the shots, Lady. It matters that he is emotionally abusing you and refuses to stop. It matters that he’s blaming YOU for some perceived slight from high school.

He doesn’t get to do everything short of fuck her and then claim it’s A-okay because he didn’t consummate the act. (He probably did. Adults fuck. That’s what they do.) The issue is that he wants to live like a single person, but enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage. That’s more than enough reason to divorce his ass yesterday.

When you serve him papers, say “Just once you want to be loved? Here’s your freedom. Have at it, Tiger.”

This column ran previously.

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  • I’ve read this column each time it comes out, and it still pisses me off.

    • I just laugh my head off. A loser tries to date another woman and then complains to his wife that he was unsuccessful and expects consolation and understanding for his sadz? Priceless. I just don’t know why she’s writing for advice. She just needs to calmly and firmly explain to her near adult child that dating other women when one is married and on the top of that, expecting consolation when you’re a loser is totally disrespectful and unacceptable.

      • STBXW cried on the couch for 3 days a few months after I confronted her about DDay (which she denied and still denies now almost 3 days later). I asked what was wrong and she said “he chose her” (meaning her sister). She really expected me to be consoling her because the AP chose her sister (also married with kids) over her, and that somehow her reactions and behaviours surrounding that was okay considering we had been married for 12 years by that point and had two toddlers… These people are disordered to the highest degree!

  • Like VulcanChump this article always raises my ire!! I hope Lady left his sorry ass! Lady if you’re out there, please give us an update!

  • Thanks for this timely reminder Chump Lady! Having just seen a video of a festival I decided not to go to, run by his music world friends, and there he was sitting with them clapping along to music played by the girl he left me for (and then came back to me and kids as she didn’t want him as a partner and he couldn’t live alone in his van). Shame because I liked them all initially and would have loved to go but I’m glad I no longer want to be involved with the flying monkey circus.

    • Are you saying you are still with your cheater? Please say no.

      • Chumpitty, nonono! Told him to leave a year ago and divorce finalised two months ago. Always nice to be reminded that it was never me that was the problem, he just preferred his Romantic Wandering Troubadour lifestyle to life with me and his children. In the past I was considering meeting up with some of the friends who I did like but can’t be bothered with the drama, and to whatever extent they are enablers. Thanks for your concern, lovely! X

  • Even if this was not your husband ( but it is ) who the hell treats another human like that ? The blatant disrespect is enough to get out ! Never mind the actual physical act the fact he can disrespect you ( and he will be trash talking you make no mistake about that ) and your family is a no go area .

  • Wow this Lady was so gaslit she wasn’t even aware of how much darkness u r in when there’s no electric lighting. She wasn’t seeing anything clearly.

    He WANTED work colleague to be his girlfriend but she said no and now he’s still trying because she might change her mind? At what point exactly was he going to opt out of the marriage?

    I really hope you helped her see clearly CL.

    • We don’t know if the OW really said no–the implication in the letter is that the Cheater said so. I’m not a believer, myself.

  • They dont leave unless the OW in a sure thing, they can’t risk being alone.

    My STBXH said he didnt know what he wanted for months, however, looking back, it was clear he was not deciding between being with me and ‘being alone’.

    • This 100% 2.0

      I asked the Narcstar repeatedly what he wanted and he could never give a straight answer. I offered support and understanding if he was struggling with where he was in life. He dragged me to counseling, where he still could not articulate his wants or needs and instead tried to use it as a platform to point out my every personal failing. He even tried to blame me for other people in my life treating him poorly (they saw through the mask). I even gave him an out to separate. He instead looked at me and said I need you to accept the Cumpster. He received a very incredulous response of “Da Fuq?!” and “People in Hell want ice water”.

    • Can we add an addendum: “I need some time apart to figure myself out” is code for “I’m trying to determine out if AP is a lock, in which case I’ll abandon you”. My XW used “I’m spending Christmas with family friend out of state”, “I’m taking the kids back to visit old hometown for a week” and “I’m going on a work trip to France for a week” as code for “I’m spending time with AP to try him out”. I was in so much denial that I didn’t break the code until months and months later.

      I was charmingly naive about all this. When you don’t lie, cheat, and betray it’s pretty hard to really understand that other people *do*. I’m years out, and I *still* catch myself believing something XW writes every once in a while!

      • I already knew about Schmoopie when ex chose to move out to “figure himself out alone for a while” and no, I was not allowed to have a key to his new place because it was his space even though it was being paid for with marital money. I was hoping they would spend so much time together that they would get sick of each other and he would come running back to me. Really, it is a good thing that didn’t happen because that would have just meant another few years of pick me dancing until he left me for some other skank instead.

      • Yep, Fuckup needed time “alone” to figure things out. I’m a trusting idiot, so I believed him, even when he couldn’t visit my country or have me over to his for a full year. I kept asking him, “What’s going on? Are we okay? Is there someone else? Do you want to break up?” He was always, “No, things are fine with us. I’m just going through a depression and need to sort it out alone.”

        Then, when I found out about the skankbag schmoopie (with whom he’d been having a full-on extracurricular relationship) he had the nerve to say, “But, seriously. How could you think we were still together, when we hadn’t seen each other in so long?”

        Stupidly, I still wanted to wreckoncile, until 1.5 years later (for a total of almost 3 lost years) when it became clear that there was really nothing to work with.

        • O.M.G. NotAfraid **this** just wow! mine said he needed time to himself (aka with APs) when I later found out his lies and deception he woul turn it on me and say we weren’t together. And he truly believes this rewrite of the script.

      • Me too! I thought he was spending time in his mancave cottage to decide what he wanted. He already had, and he had told me he didn’t want a divorce because it ‘always ruins the guy financially’. Reader, I divorced him. He’s not exactly ruined but he is having to work very hard right now.

      • Or “I need some time apart to figure myself out” means I’m getting sex over there and sex over here and these’s this pick-me dance going…

      • This put a tear in my eye as I was reminded of the several times that he asked for a “break” of some sort, always assuring me that it was about him and needing to be alone to figure himself out. Only after he eventually left me for the OW did I learn from the secret emails how each time was to be with her. There is even an email where he apologizes for her complaint that he’s treating her place like a hotel.

        What a fool I was. I was being a good wife. I was being understanding. I as giving him space.

        In the end I was feeding him cake. The anger I feel about that runs deep. The level of disrespect takes my breath away. At what point in our marriage did he forget that I am someone’s daughter, someone’s sister, niece, cousin? There are people who love me and wanted me to have a good life. When did he stop caring about them? And as a man who has a daughter of his own, how will he manage it one day when a man does the same to his baby girl? And it will happen because men like her father have already put it out there in the world.

        • Thanks, OptionNoMore, your story feels so familiar, I’m too exhausted to do much more than read others’ rather than tell my own but I’m grateful for those who do share, and how it resonates!

        • My ex went away for work a few times to apparently do catering for well known pop stars… Bollox! He was away on holiday to Berlin with skank one, then Berlin again with skank two, then a music festival with skank two, then was a plus one at a wedding with skank one, and these are only the ones I know about, oh and he took skank one to his works BBQ party. I told him to to go have fun as our daughter was only a few months old and I was breastfeeding. Skank one was/ is the tenant in our old apartment. He used to go round there I’m sure, to our old home to fuck her when he told me he was working late… Makes me sick. He’s ruined memories of my old home now!
          Now he is that busy working his ass off to pay me child maintenance that his lies have came true. And he has to live in a caravan in skank two’s parents back garden… Karma does arrive. But he had to test the waters first. I was obviously so horrendous to be with he had to have 2 affairs concurrently! (sarcasm) He was /is so disordered and messed in the head, unloving, uncaring, disrespectful of everyone involved, a complete user who can’t stand on his own two feet and needs a ‘supportive’ woman to make life happen for him – well, apart from pursuing strange… They were both colleagues so he didn’t pursue that far…!
          I could write a book about his methods.

      • IG –
        Well put, as always. It’s a ridiculous mindset to try to decode, especially if you’ve never thought that way yourself.

    • I would say that the reasons my cheater took time too make moves was to be sure she would be there. I am certain of it. I think she had a BF so whether he got discarded first or simultaneously but I am sure mine didn’t jump until he knew he could convince her to set up new life together which meant moving her across country. Then he did the kind (sarcastic) thing of waking until my dad had died until moving out as swiftly as he could afterwards because he can’t look like a bad person can he and then it can be all my fault.

      I am certain that’s why it took over a year, had to be sure he’d get a soft landing. I’d give him a bloody hard landing if I ever had the chance let me tell you.

      How the person in this piece can even look her husband in the face, he’s disgusting.

    • Yeah, mine kept saying he didn’t want to make a decision he would regret for the rest of his life if he divorced me, but meanwhile he got a burner phone to continue to cheat right under my nose during wreckonciliation. I was such a spineless chump I took his words as being a hopeful sign. If I facepalmed at every recollection of the ways in which I acted chumpy and smoked the hopium pipe I’d have a concussion!

      • Mine didn’t even make a half hearted attempt at reconciliation – he just keep the fog swirling – no answer, just lies, very little talking just giving the dead eye stare. Then when I finally realized he wasn’t going to change at all I decided to start the divorce process and he said he was in no rush – no shit Sherlock you were screwing your girlfriend while I looked after the family and the home – no rush to stop the wife appliance and the image management. He thought he was so clever speaking in riddles – him “I love you as a family member” me “so you love me but you aren’t in love with me?” him “it means what it means”. Me “do you want a divorce” him “I want to spend time with you and time experiencing things with others” me “what kind of experiences?” him “new experiences – I am not expanding on this topic” me “have you slept with someone” him “no” me ” should I get tested for STD’s” him after months of me asking every so often “STD testing is always a good idea” me “did you sleep with someone” him “no” me “why would STD testing be good?” him “it’s always a good idea” me “WTF” him “death stare” He was also mad when he did not get a brownie badge after telling me he had unprotected sex because “afterall I didn’t have to tell you the truth”. He is a sick sick man.

        My “life partner” had locked down everything. He had changed all passwords so I could not check his cell or cell bill or his bank

        • Holy hell Deee, what a manipulative, vicious son of a bitch. How can people like him stand themselves? We all know the answer but just can’t imagine being him!! Isn’t it superb that just not caring anymore instantly defuses their every sick and twisted attempt to manipulate. Well done you, sweetheart, for refusing to play his nasty game. X

          • Thank-you AFAKC – it is such a relief to be away from that. Now it is my kids that have to deal with his delusions but they are older teens and unfortunately are going to have to find a way to deal with the bs or cut him off – they will have to figure out their path but they have zero respect for their father right now and neither live with him.

            • You raised them right! My three are 15 and eldest 18, the twins are struggling but the ex doesn’t seem much more than an Uncle Dad videogame buddy. We don’t have a lot of family here so he is an adult (!) in their lives – as they mature I’m pretty sure they will see him clearly.

              • I just cannot get over the similarities in ChumpNation experiences. Yes these highly manipulative, cold blooded cheating narcs have zero feelings or conscience or true love for the families they brought into this world. My teens are starting to see the whole picture now too. Especially after spending a second annual summer vacay with cheater dad and his mistress and kids (she was waiting in the wings for him to leave us while she exited her marriage too) and we are not yet divorced! She was on best behaviour candy coating her “caring” towards my kids until this last vacay. True personalities are hard to disguise forever. They see their dad for who he is now. My bestie always says, Time is on your side Gf. I believe she is right. This garbage will be a thing of the past some day. My kids know I love them and will never leave them. Enough said.

    • Yeah,
      I’ve had a first row seat to my partners’ gaslighting, avoidance of telling me the truth when I asked them if there was somebody else, outright lying, avoidance of leaving until they were 1000% sure that they have secured the object of their affection, informing of me that they needed some ‘alone time’ to figure out what they want in life (yeah, right), and self-pitying ‘I might be alone for the rest of my life,’ trying to get me, the dumped, to console them, the ones looking for greener grass on the other side of the fence. Why did I worship F–ktards and consider their opinions of me vitally important? I am mad at them for on-going shabby/shady behavior and at me for tolerating this disrespect for decades–just lowered my self-esteem and confidence. This horrendous treatment and my tolerance of it makes me want to ‘wash my skin’ of the figurative slime I feel on me. I need to find a self-caring (self-honoring), confident me inside me as every sentient being deserves (self-)respect.

    • Same here. On D-Day#4 I asked him what he wanted. He said: “That’s the problem, I don’t know what I want. I just know that the other relationship needs exploring.” It’s been 7 months and she’s still with her husband but as far as I know, seeing mine too. People are messed up. He told a friend that “she (meaning me) forced my hand before I was ready.” Um so you were giving me hope and going through the motions because YOU weren’t ready to LEAVE me? Fucktard. Hope you are enjoying your sloppy seconds.

      • Good for you LTT. Your ex is as bad as the letter writer’s. I’m glad you got out.

        • Thanks Fern. It’s been hard. The idealize/discard cycle really took a toll on my mental health not to mention being completely blindsided by this. I feel like I’m in withdrawal. The narcissism is astounding once clarity from limited contact happened. He also said “If you weren’t such an incredible woman and if we didn’t have such a great relationship, my decision would be easy.”. Um, what? You are seriously considering a 27 year relationship which was the envy to all onlookers, two amazing children and so many memories of happiness to a 1.5 year relationship to a married woman who isn’t leaving her husband that is nothing more than infatuation in a fantasy world? Read between your own lines. If you need to think about it, that’s your answer. I see now that it wasn’t life with me he was considering, it was how this was going to affect his “good” and “moral” reputation. Check please.

    • Exactly. They need a soft place to land. If this “friend” were to ever agree to be that, he’d be gone in a heartbeat. What an abusive monster. Crying to your wife about being rejected by another woman? Wow. I am stunned that she went back to this freak and tolerated what was obviously dating, at the very least. I hope she took CLs advice.

    • The Dickhead did the same thing. He lied to me during the divorce talk and said that he was ready for time alone to sort every thing. He was already talking to Kentucky Woman (no shade on Neil Diamond). Because that’s exactly where he left me – alone and in pain – as he turned and walked away from me. He announced they were in a relationship one month after the divorce and not even 4 months from the talk.

    • Yep– my ex was only on the fence because, at the time, the OW wasn’t a sure thing. She was still married, had kids, and lived a couple of hours away. He was willing to “work things out” with me because she wasn’t a guarantee. However, I didn’t give him any choice and demanded a divorce. Thank heavens that she left her marriage so that she could take up with his needy self! I’m not sure what the sad sausage would have done!

    • My Ex actually admitted to me, during a hoover attempt, that there was no way he could have left me before being sure she’d have him, or come back to me before dumping her. He ACTUALLY SAID ‘that would take so much strength!’, as if I were demanding he lift a bus off a kitten.

      This in the context of my trying to explain to him why lying to people is a poor relationship strategy, and asking why, if he was SOOOOO UNHAPPY prior to fucking around (both the first and that 2nd time), he didn’t just LEAVE.

      This convo was the one that FINALLY made me realize that he and I simply. did. not. have. the. same. values.

      His values; do whatever is easiest and the most gratifying for him, always. (I won’t add ‘without any consideration of how much harm it may do other people, including your own FOO, your work colleagues, your wife, and YOUR OWN CHILDREN, or even your own self in time, because he literally never thought of this stuff.) And then be pissed at everybody else when things didn’t turn out the way he wanted.

  • My ex asked me for relationship advice when he was was courting the OW. It took my therapist grabbing me by the shoulders and telling me “THAT IS ABUSE!” for me to realize…..that is abuse. GTFO, girlfriend. Abuse only gets worse.

  • My STBX’s previous wife/chump went through hell trying to wrap her head around their situation: alcohol, severe emotional abuse (to the entire family), persistent cheating, financial abuse. When he & she got to a counselor and were asked what brought them to there, she said he wants to be married but won’t stop dating. Bingo.

    He wouldn’t stop dating (cheating) in our marriage either. All that effort, all those lovely sentimental exchanges, all those sweet private jokes, all that planning for dates and trips, all that energy and money spent on his parade of skanks…. imagine how rich and wonderful our marriage could have been had he devoted all that to us instead of his dick and ego.

    Now it’s the lawyers who are getting rich.

  • Once again Chump Lady is spot on. It doesn’t matter if he did not sleep with her. But, I think he did. No one dates for a long period of time and does not have sex. Your story kind of sounds like mine. My ex husband was friends secretly with my cousin for 4 to 5 years. He too denied having sex. Said they were only friends and she liked to play pool with him. He swore he never had sex with her. He would not do that to me. My ex dated another women while married. We tried to work on our marriage. But, I could not live with myself.

    Your Husband is abusive. He does not care about you or your son. As long as he has the chump at home to cook and clean. Be the adult. While he dates another women right in front of you. As for the other women. I suspect she is getting off on the wining and dining. Your husband is spending money on another women. Money that could be going into your son’s college fund. She is having a ball on your dime. Lawyer up. You deserve a cheater free life.

    • My husband swore up and down he never had sex with howorker swore on his dead fathers grave
      He gave me herpes !

      They all fucking lie that’s their MO

      • I left a long term marriage that from the outside probably looked ideal to the 32 year old skanky whore he was “dating”. I wonder if his lunch dates howorker knows about the side chick. Have fun, skanks.

        I did have the joy if telling him, in front of his best friend, “You can fuck her and you will still be old and fat.” He didn’t say anything. His BFF just laughed.

        I left in May. Filed for divorce and went no contact. I really do think he expected me to continue to tolerate his infidelities. I have him figured out. Chump Lady, thank you for liberating me from the mindfuck of participating in my own abuse.

        I will never speak to him again. He killed any love I had for him.

        Now I have to figure out how to avoid him and his ilk for the rest of my life. Never again, as Chump Lady as my witness.

        • Yes, I think my STBX thought I would take scraps too. His sister told me (during our live in separation – yuck) that he was deciding if he wanted to be married to me (and he was being horrible to me). I told her that the arrogance of that statement was astounding. After the way I was treated there was no way I could continue to be with him. The delusional state he continues to be in is astounding. He has convinced himself that I deserved it (even though I loved and supported him and he has no real reason other than one time he said he thought he wanted more sex than he was getting but never said anything of course). What is even worse is he believes he hasn’t hurt his kids who realize that he prioritized his married girlfriend over his family. Truly dysfunctional!

          • Hah- ex left the house a few days after I said “Her or me”, then when I spoke about the kids feeling abandoned he said “But I’m not abandoning them!”
            Me: “But that’s how they FEEL!”
            Him: “Oh, yeah…” Duuuh

      • “He gave me herpes!”

        Ugh – participation STD. Despite you NOT participating in the cheating!

  • Reasonable lady:
    Update please? What happened? I hope you listened to CL and have a good life now. She is right. It is straight up emotional abuse.

  • To go from yesterday’s post to this one is interesting.

    In a “craning your neck to see the carnage as you drive by” kind of way.

    Ugh. Even as a re-run it is upsetting. I hope she kicked him to the curb long ago.

  • It’s disrespectful to you and your marriage…period. If there are chumps out there asking yourself if this man or woman is sleeping with my spouse, texting all the time, coming home late, “having a drink with coworkers”, the answer is yes. There should be no secret friends, friends that needs their help with their spouses or partners, or friends that you can’t meet. Partners that act like they are hiding something usually are.

    If your partner is having an unhealthy or disrespectful relationship, you have the right to speak up, ask questions and set boundaries.

  • Lawyer up, but don’t tell fuckw*t.
    Look on the damn phone and send screen shots of the flirtation to your lawyer.
    Don’t let fuckw*t back in your bed.
    Seriously. I repeat, don’t let fuckw*t back in your bed.
    Your son is also old enough to be made fully aware of what his father does. Make it clear to him that behavior like his dad’s intolerable.

  • Why the hell would you trust that he didn’t play hide the sausage? With someone, not necessarily this woman. She may just have been the first to turn him down. They don’t just wake up 20 years into a marriage and start getting their rocks off. They are laying (excuse the pun) the groundwork from long before they ever say “I do”
    Get yourself STI tested and get to a lawyer. Don’t trust a word he says. He is not a food, honest or decent man.

  • The burglar sobs to you that he tried to break into your safe but just couldn’t do it. They just ONCE wanted to be able to crack it.

    They try to keep breaking in, right in front of you, and declare you have emotional problems if you are not OK with it. Your anger leads them to say that the courtesy of them telling you they are going to try to crack the safe is over.

    He says you are petty. It is not like he TECHNICALLY has broken into the safe, right?

    Anyone still confused on who the jerk is?

    • I just love how cheaters misuse words like “courtesy.” Mine had a problem with “decent” and told me what he thought the decent things I should do were after he abandoned me. While fucking a chick our daughter’s age. Yah, let’s all take instruction from fuckwits.

      • My Ex always used to say to me that he hated liars. There was nothing worse than a liar. Well he must of hated himself because he sure was good at lying. He could look me square in the face and tell me he was going to Kevin’s. To find out Kevin was skankella. Cheaters are a special breed.

        • That reminds me of a ‘friend’ who I think was trying to get into my pants. He went for work to Mexico but previously had forgotten his camera somewhere in his home country. As we all know, Mexicans, including police, are very stupid and most of them thieves, so he came to a brilliant idea to report his camera as stolen in Mexico. Off he went to the police station. Unfortunately for him, not all Mexican policemen are stupid. They asked him like two police questions and proved he was lying like a schoolboy. They were thinking to report him for insurance fraud (he needed the report to make an insurance claim). At the end they let him go because he was a foreign citizen and they didn’t want to bother with his embassy.

          And now the question, why do you think he told me this? Anybody? He told me this to prove he was such an honest person that he was incapable of lying convincingly.

  • I could of written this letter.

    Just a friend, check
    Texting constantly, check
    Meet for drinks, check
    Tears, check

    The Narcstar cried and told me he would resent me if I asked him to cut off communication with the Cumpster. I caught him lying about his whereabouts and I was screamed at for being a psycho bitch for spying. The Cumpster is “his only friend” he screamed in my face. Meanwhile his actual friends would have to text me to get a hold of him.

    But the coup de gras, the pinnacle of disrespect was when he brought the Cumpster to our home to meet my parents while I was at work.

    My parents live out of state, I only get to see them once a year. It took me months to tell them what was happening, so they knew that something was rotten in Denmark.

    The Narcstar had attempted to invite the Cumpster to our daughters birthday party and I shut that down hard. I was not going to be humiliated by him in front of my family and friends. But that was the point all along, humiliate me, hope that I lose my shit. Anything to justify his actions.

    • I was funny with him about having friends (no I wasn’t he just didn’t have any) hence he couldn’t tell me about her apparently.

      He brought a colleague (this was a colleague) to ours once and she did a lot for him (and hence us) in terms of getting him work and she is lovely and she came to ours and I was thrilled and we went for lunch. He sat on his phone and I spent the lunch talking to her. Apparently that was awful and I was frosty because, new narrative I was funny about his friends.

      You can’t listen to a word. I have friends who have been through worse. A girlfriend of mine her ex arranged a lavish 30th or 40th birthday party for her at her house, all her friends round including the one she was having an affair with. Later told my friend she did all this to impress the other woman. They are sick.

    • This blameshifting and gaslighting is enough to make the sanest person question their own sanity. He would resent you but you weren’t allowed to resent the intrusion into your marriage. The Dickhead was like that. Laying down these ultimatums, even thought some were artfully disguised, that kept you in line. We can’t upset the apple cart because then we would have to pick up all the apples. Thank goodness you got away from that.

      • Yeah, he took off a month after the parent debacle. It was two days after my 40th birthday. I came home to the Narcstar screaming at me before I had even finished climbing the stairs. Screaming about somebody my Mom invited to our mutual milestone birthday party via FB. A close family friend that had a big crush on me years earlier. He screamed about me putting everyone before him (the projection was strong with this one LOL). Then he said he already had his bags packed, and I laughed and said “there is the door, don’t let it hit you in the ass on the way out.” and he was gone.

        He texted 4 days later asking me for a “hate fuck” to which I responded…”The only thing that is going to fuck you better than me is Karma”

        I came to find out that a close mutual friend of ours daughter was getting married in a month and that he was planning to go with the Cumpster who was also invited. He knew that I would never let that fly and instead decided to manufacture some bullshit in order to make it look as if the end of our marriage was all my fault.

        He still insists that all of this is my doing, though he can never quite pinpoint what I exactly did. Funny that LOL.

        • “”The only thing that is going to fuck you better than me is Karma.” Priceless.

        • The only thing that’s going to fuck you better than me is karma.

          Love it!!!!!!!! Gonna use it someday.

    • “Anything to justify his actions.” For those impression management types, this sentence is so very important. I dared to go to graduate school (mind you he already got his advanced education ages ago with me working to support him through it) thus I had “abandoned” him and he was justified in his actions. Uh, ok. He drummed up other things too–the list was long, but this one s always seemed particularly unfair given the gender dynamics.

      In the end, the best gift I gave myself was limited contact (official parenting purposes only) and general non-reponsiveness. I vowed to give him zero things to try and hold against me. It mostly worked.

  • Every time I read this one it pisses me off.
    I sincerely hope that she is free of this abusive narcissist dickhead.
    As for me, exh2/The Evil One did not officially leave until he had OWife locked-in. He got a great-paying job finally easing my mind about finances after 12+ years of unemployment and low-paying jobs with no benefits. That feeling lasted about 3 weeks when D-Day hit.
    He moved out about a month after D-Day to his slut-shack, wreckconciliation, then GTFO-day were all within those few weeks after moving out. He had OW this whole time, during which I fed him delicious, scrumptious cake and spackled like a boss.
    He stopped coming around when I stopped serving him cake and put up boundaries and took back control of myself and evicted him from my psyche.
    Four years ago now. ????Stop????Taking????Shit???? From???? Cheaters.

  • This makes me so angry, and I hope she was able to repair her relationship with her son after she kicked him to the curb. I’m speechless at the level of entitlement here. My ex did something similar, but on a much smaller scale. He was going to leave me for some whore he met online, but it turned out she scammed him. He had the audacity to complain to me one morning by saying, “I’m just mad she lied to me!”. That not only cut like a knife that he was complaining about his failed chance to leave me, but also the sheer lack of self-awareness astounded me. I still pick me danced like a dumbass. I’m so ashamed of that.

  • When all of that was going down and I knew about it, we had a tiff about something. During that argument he said something along the lines of “you had better be nice to me because I have other options.” It was a warning. I got the warning all right, but I completely misinterpreted it. I didn’t get that the universe was warning me that my husband was a selfish self-centered prick who didn’t care about me and my feelings. Instead I thought it was a warning that I wasn’t being a good wife and needed to do better. I spent the next eight years pick me dancing until he finally left me for his second physical affair partner (I didn’t find out about the first until several months after discovering the second). This time he didn’t come home when I called. No apologies. Evidently he regretted not having gone physical with the emotional affair partner all of those years ago and he wasn’t going to make that “mistake” again. I guess he also didn’t want to make the “mistake” of not throwing away his family for a skank either. What bothers me most is that he thinks he made good choices and has no regrets.

  • Oops. My last post was missing the first half;

    When my ex had the emotional affair I thought the fact that he told me she was coming on to him meant that he wouldn’t ever actually cheat. There are a number of reasons why I don’t think he consummated that one but he was still spending time with her that should have gone to the family and he was doing it in my face. I don’t think he fucked her but he did kiss her because he supposedly felt sorry for her because her husband hadn’t kissed her in five years. Isn’t he such a kind hearted individual for caring about her pain? I was trying not to be the controlling wife but tried to get him to control himself by telling him I didn’t want him to have an affair and I trusted him to do the right thing. I was scared to death when I called him that night a couple of weeks later when he was at her house late. I was afraid he wouldn’t answer or would be angry as he had gotten upset with me in the past when he was blowing off me and the kids and I tried to get him to give us more of his attention. I called him and told him I believed that “nothing” was going on but that he was spending time with her that belonged to me and the kids and I wanted him to come home. That time he came home, held me close and apologized for neglecting me. He didn’t see her again.

    When all of that was going down and I knew about it, we had a tiff about something. During that argument he said something along the lines of “you had better be nice to me because I have other options.” It was a warning. I got the warning all right, but I completely misinterpreted it. I didn’t get that the universe was warning me that my husband was a selfish self-centered prick who didn’t care about me and my feelings. Instead I thought it was a warning that I wasn’t being a good wife and needed to do better. I spent the next eight years pick me dancing until he finally left me for his second physical affair partner (I didn’t find out about the first until several months after discovering the second). This time he didn’t come home when I called. No apologies. Evidently he regretted not having gone physical with the emotional affair partner all of those years ago and he wasn’t going to make that “mistake” again. I guess he also didn’t want to make the “mistake” of not throwing away his family for a skank either. What bothers me most is that he thinks he made good choices and has no regrets.

    • That was no warning, that was a threat, and it’s emotional abuse. I also doubt he has no regrets. He’s not going to be happy with whoever he is with, certainly not some homwrecking bitch, and he probably sometimes wishes he had just stayed with you. He’ll just never admit it and pretends to have a sparkly life. They all do that, but stats show relationships that started as affairs are seldom happy and usually fail. I believe the stats, not cheaters.

      Mine threatened me with divorce almost every time we had a fight. After being told that was abusive and read the riot act about it, he switched to occasionally reminding me that I was only legally entitled to 50% if we were to split up. He knew I would not be able to manage on that due to medical needs, so this was especially cruel. I told him he was dreaming, that I would get more. After D-day, his own lawyer told him I would indeed get more as there were special circumstances. Ha! Wrong again, loser.

      • I hope you got a lot more than 50%, you are living well and your ex lives in a van down by the river.

        Sometimes it is hard not to think my ex is happier. They have been together for about three years including the affair part. Ex wanted four kids which he didn’t bother to tell me until after our first was born. I only agreed to have three. Schmoopie already has five but the other day she told my daughter “your dad makes beautiful babies. I would love to have his child”. Gag, barf. That is probably the kind of thing he likes to hear, however. Hey, a shot at getting something from her that I denied him (besides butt sex) and she would love to give it to him. My daughter was kind of freaked out by her comment. When I reminded her that they are both 50 and he has had a vasectomy, she said “those can be reversed”. Erk.

        • Yuck. Classless, thoughtless. Also inconsiderate given that your daughter has a mother – you. Maybe schmoopie can think that the daughter would have feelings about her mother and father and would not want to discuss about her dad procreating with someone else? Even if not, kids don’t like to talk about their parents procreating.

        • Right, like she’s going to have a baby at 50. She’s probably peri-menopausal and is getting the baby hunger from the hormonal changes. I remember getting that.
          Even if she isn’t, having a baby at that age has a huge risk of birth defects and pregnancy complications which could be fatal for the baby. Isn’t it just like a selfish homewrecker to decide to risk their own child’s life to satisfy her desire to compete with you, because that’s what it is and why she told your daughter. She wanted you to hear that. All is not well in hog heaven, obviously, and she thinks a baby would fix it. He’s probably cheating on her already.

          • Yes – you are right. I never thought that she is wanting to trigger chumpinrecovery because she is insecure. She is competing and given that the guy travels she has nothing to do but dream up this stuff.

          • You’re probably right. Now I am embarrassed that I let it get to me. Daughter typically doesn’t talk to me about Schmoopie but I think that comment freaked her out enough that she needed to vent.

  • When a spouse cries about being rejected by the OW, dredges up a small hurt from high school, and has an expectation to maintain a relationship with the OW its time to see an attorney and formulate a plan.

    If you wait and tolerate the indifference, lack of respect and dating it will end eventually when hubby finds a willing participant.

    Gather all documentation and set yourself up to live independently while hubby is infatuated. Deliver consequences; get out of limbo.

  • I posted a few days ago in the male chumps entry and noted the terrible mind numbed auto pilot stage I went through. It was all caused by abuse in the same wheel house as displayed by the ass hat in today’s column.

    Right after my Ex told me she had cheated on me a year prior and was ILWYBNILWY’ed, I was given the laundry list of the ways I had failed to make her happy. She also stated that we could stay together if we talked and worked on our problems, but perhaps we should “open up our relationship”, too. A way for both of us to learn about ourselves and by doing so, we could repair our marriage.

    Unfortunately, being in shock and co-dependent, and only finding a couple of RIC sites that preached a fair share of “owning your part of reason for the cheating”, I agreed to this. I was a fucking mess for months. I had no interest in looking for someone else to have on the side to “spice up” our marriage. Being so stupid, I didn’t see the numerous contacts and acquaintances she already had through dating/booty call sites for what they were, a list of guys she had cultivated for months prior in prep for this day. She went on 3 or 4 “meetings”, all while I stayed at home with our two sons, literally sick to my stomach. She would return home to find me still awake, in a damn near tizzy, and play it off as just something minor she needed, to qualm her unanswered needs.

    It consumed my thoughts at the constant attention to her phone and texting. She once showed me a dick pic of one of her prospects, (an attempt to motivate me to step up my pick me dance), and told me if I continued to plead with her to stop all this shit and concentrate on us, she would just go underground and hide it all from me and continue with her behavior.

    I look back now and so wish someone would have taken multiple 2X4’s to my head. I was so goddamn stupid. Of course, she determined that it “just wasn’t working” and moved out.

    I finally found this site after reaching out to the chump of the current “tru wuv” of my Ex. She bought Tracy’s book and quoted a couple of things to me and it made sense to me. I finally saw all the abuse for what it was. Oh how I wish I would have found this site sooner, but still so grateful that I did.

    I am so much better now, and know my value. I will never let anyone abuse me in such a manor again.

    • OMG. That’s disgusting and offensive. I’m so sorry that she treated you like this. You deserve better. I understand the wanting to fix it, the wanting everything to just go back. The denial. Wow, just wow. To flaunt her desired lifestyle in your face. She is seriously mess up.

    • A dick pic? How sick and vile. You are well rid of that toxic woman and I’m so glad you found CN.

    • I don’t understand how someone can be so cruel to someone they promised to love honor and cherish until death do us part. They put it in our faces and then get all annoyed when we get upset over it. I guess they do it because we let them. When we have finally had enough then suddenly we are the ones being unreasonable and their feelings are somehow supposed to trump ours.

    • MST3KFan – showing you a dick pic from another man she planned to have sex with – that’s a very special kind of pornographic, humiliating and very twisted abuse. Very proud of you for saving yourself and leaving her in the dust. In my case the ex read me his EA partner’s (not graphic, quite coy) account of a night with her boyfriend. Makes my skin crawl now to think of how fucked up and voyeuristic that was. Ugh. Well done you!! X

    • She’s so horrible to have done any of that at all, but showing you that photo was particularly twisted and cruel.

      I’m so glad you’re no longer putting up with that nonsense from anybody. Ever.

    • Because he is a sick individual. Because clearly she is just a friend or else why would I do this horribly disrespectful thing. Because he thought that if my parents liked her that I would just go along with his bullshit. Because he liked humiliating me and trying to make me feel lesser than him. Because ultimately he got off on it.

      • So true. They’ll use anybody for triangulation, your parents, their parents, even their own kids. The triangulation is what makes it fun for them.

      • Thank you for explanation – I couldn’t get it because my brain doesn’t work like this and luckily, I haven’t come across such people. Btw, I thoroughly enjoyed your descripting of your next steps and I’ve learnt something new today (like ‘hate fuck’)

        • It did take a long time for me to see his actions for what they really were…abuse. And I didn’t get it either, I wracked my brain for an explanation, any reason for this person I loved beyond all reason to be treating me as such.

          But when the abuse is happening it’s just so very overwhelming, the foundation just keeps shifting and you never seem to gain balance.

          If it’s not one thing they will find another. Inflict pain upon pain, shift, deflect, project, until one day it’s like a light bulb goes off and you’ve just had enough.

          I sometimes lament that I did not leave work that day and drag the Cumpster from my home by her hair and tell him that he was free to follow her fat ass out the door. But then I remind myself that is exactly what he wanted. He wanted to point at me and say look “she’s crazy” “she’s abusive” “now you see why I left”.

          I denied him that narrative. And that is worth more than breaking that whore’s legs off and using them to beat him within an inch of his life LOL.

          Narcstar and Cumpster
          sitting in the gutter
          always looking over
          the shoulder of the other

  • This letter is simultaneously sad and enraging.
    Imagine all of the collective brilliance that chumps never acted upon. All of the creativity, genius, innovation, big societal change. Never realized, due to these rotten dynamics. It’s tragic.
    Enough with these rinse/repeat scenarios.
    My favorite part about CN is what happens when chumps put down the habit and live.
    Chumps are creators of big change, and they’re really fucking good at it.
    My hope for Lady above- she’s got all of that shit in her rear view, and is on some beautiful beach somewhere-with a content smile across her face.

    • and her son sided with her in the end and won’t talk to his Dad.

  • The constant need for overlapping sources of kibbles stands out. Cheaters do not want to be alone at all! disordered X was yet another entitled cheater who hated to be alone. The week after the decades long marriage imploded, the kids said he was busy on online dating sites. two months later he moved in someone, cheated on her half a year later and right away moved in someone else (for nearly a year), and now is in another. I’m still enjoying peace and quiet…and busy supporting kids and being the sane parent #NoContact #headingforTuesday

  • This letter is worth a regular rerun. It’s sickening and also so typical of the kind of entitlement that Cheaters have. Of course you will be there as Plan B!

    I’d like to address the 15-year-old son issue. It does suck that the son is in the middle, but I also argue that the son needs to know why mom and dad have separated. At 15, the son knows that cheating is wrong. He deserves to be told the truth: that mom and dad are separating because dad has a girlfriend at work and mom and dad are trying to work things out. In the meantime, mom and dad want to make sure that Son can spend time with both and that Son is old enough to know what kind of visitation works for him with respect to his school activities and his friends. If dad has said that he needs time away from Son and Mom, then son needs to know that as well.

    Teens feel injustice keenly. It is very possible that Son was mad at both parents for slightly different reasons: at his father for being an asshole cheater, and at his mother for not decisively ending the marriage.

    I, too, would love to see an update, if the OP would let Tracy know.

  • I don’t understand how you can put up with him “dating” another woman? It’s degrading & disrespecting you but your tolerating it!
    I am amazed that your still married to this abusive
    How can you believe he’s not having sex with her? I’m enraged just by reading your post. This is a terrible example for your son to see. For his sake, lawyer up
    & throw “husband” to the curb!

  • I’m not really sure when dating while you are married became acceptable. I could have practically written this myself several years back. Then I came to my senses and tossed the prick out. I’m drumming it into my child’s head that even attempting to date while soneone is with you is grounds to end the relationship. That’s just fucked up.

    • Mine was dating without telling me. He was “dating” a married colleague. WTF? Of course naive me wasn’t worried about this woman because she was married. The funny part if a friend of mine gave me a hard time because I didn’t consistently wear my wedding ring while my STBX never took his off (yet I actually honored the marriage – him it was just image management).

      My teens know the truth and realize how twisted and selfish their Dad is but of course he is their only Dad ( which sucks).

  • I read this now after a couple years of being in CN and think “no duh?!” but this could have been me. When your husband tells you he wants to date and has someone in mind and then you find cash and boner pills hidden in his vehicle and you STILL TRY TO MAKE IT WORK AND BELIEVE HIS STORIES…well that my friends is why CN exists. Never again!

  • It sickens me that my now XH used to call his internet whore his girlfriend, nope not supposed to have girlfriend when married. He would sit there texting her in front of me and smile and laugh out loud. Told him it was so disrespectful and couldn’t he show some decency at all. When we separated he started calling her fiance. Yet denied it was cheating . Well lawyer said it was adultery because of the intent. By the way 5 yrs later he hasn’t married her and she is now back to being just a girlfriend. Aw, poor thing, guess she’ll never get that free ride to America lol

  • My husband also was dating behind my back and when he came to me and was complaining on how selfish she is , it’s all about her , she never wants to do anything he wants to do , he buys her gifts , but she doesn’t give him anything, He complements her , but nothings from her Then the kicker is that he told her he has Feelings for her , and all she said was Your married , And at that time she didn’t want a boyfriend I was dumb founded I couldn’t believe what he was telling me , this is how I find out he’s dating, he’s cheating , he’s a complete idiot. We’re separated , can’t do the divorce thing yet , but will , I have to get things figured out , take care of myself Since hubby won’t , After all that complaining about her , he’s back seeing IT again . Separated for now getting all ducks in a row Hubby told me not to worry that there JUST FRIENDS

  • Hugs to you May ❤ keep on being Mighty! Your hysband sounds like the typical banal predictable sad sausage. ‘Just friends’ – but his INTENTION is what matters. Best of luck in getting rid of the deadweight and please keep posting here, Chump Nation has your back! Love x

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