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UBT the Trust Bank

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CN, why haven’t we deconstructed the bullshit trope of the Trust Bank yet? OMG, I’ve let you down! Recently, I got a letter that went like this:

Two years into the relationship he left his email open and I found the Craigslist ads, dating site profiles, etc…, but he eagerly agreed to couples counseling and we met with an expert in sex addition for over a year, making deposits into the “trust bank”.

As you can imagine, the story didn’t end well. Lo and behold, despite his trust deposits…. he was still cheating.

BUT THE TRUST BANK!

Yep, the reader was making deposits, and assumed (probably because there was a licensed sex addiction therapist involved) that cheater was too, and her Trust Bank got robbed. All her hopes and dreams were gagged, duct-taped to a chair, and pistol-whipped.

What dopey therapist came up with the Trust Bank, and how is this a Thing? I don’t know, but it’s a tenet of the Reconciliation Industrial Complex and can be found at the Healing Library at SI and some site called REAL marriage, among other unicorn outlets.

Gee, Chump Lady, you bitter harridan, what do you have against rebuilding trust?

For diplomatic missions overseas, or consumer confidence after an eColi outbreak? I’m fine with it. I am, however, skeptical of trust-building’s efficacy with people who have willfully abused you.

Here are my beefs with the Trust Bank:

1.) It’s a terrible metaphor. Banks are regulated. By federal agencies. Your heart is not. The Trust Bank seems to be entirely ginned up so that the chump feels like they are DOING something. Look! A trust deposit! We have a structure! And a metaphor! We can SAVE this!

Cheating is not an over-drawn checking account whose coffers you can refill with a little adult-like money management and a part-time job. Cheating is abuse. The RIC isn’t just asking you to wait patiently for your bank balance to fill, its asking you to go into business with the person who just robbed the bank.

Oh, and not only invest with the bank robber, but do it uninsured. Investment without a safety net! Because isn’t that what trust is? The whole idea minimizes the tangible harm of infidelity.

(To any unicorns reading — trust bank all you want to. Please still get a post-nup.)

2.) The Trust Bank assumes accountability. Oh hey! He let me see his cell phone! She gave me her passwords! We are building incrementally toward MORE TRUST! Baby steps for the Timid Forest Creatures!

Do not question the Trust Deposit. More deposits will be forthcoming!

But uh, it’s one deposit. Which really has nothing to do with the off-shore accounts in the Caymans. Cheaters tend to bank in more than one place, if you catch my drift.

3.) The Trust Bank traffics in the false equivalency of two bank accounts. Chump and cheater are both supposed to be making deposits. Sure, the cheater has a zero balance, but cheater needs assurances that you won’t just bail on them. They’re very delicate now. Won’t you make a good faith deposit?

Ugh. Chumps aren’t responsible for this shit. Nor should they offer assurances, let alone be expected to shore up cheaters on their “trust issues.” YOU JUST GOT CHUMPED.

So, how can you rebuild trust? For the chumped, it is always an act of faith. ALWAYS. The cheater can yes, do the honorable thing day in and a day out, words aligning with actions, but you will never un-know that they are capable of casual betrayal. There is no fiduciary mojo or imaginary bank balance that takes away that risk.

And if that doesn’t convince you, read about the joys of twitchy hypervigilance here. Let’s UBT, shall we?

To start with a clean slate or a zero account meant that he had to bare his soul and lay it all on the table. This brought him back up to zero. After about 3 months I was able to start letting him make deposits. Deposits started small…for example, every time he told the truth about something that he would have lied about in the past he got a deposit.

Bitch cookie! What a GOOD BOY!

Noble how you’re weaning him off his steady diet of constant lying. And “letting him make deposits”? You’re LETTING HIM? Every day honesty should be a given. It’s not 12-step.

But yeah, right, you’re supposed to believe this is all about your hesitancy and your inability  to trust him. “Letting” was the tell there, Twinkles McUnicorn.

He was to have no contact with the other women at all. Any attempts at contact by the OW’s were to be brought to my attention and he was not to read anything that was sent to him by them.

Try tethering his dick to a post. I hear that works.

He got a deposit when he brought an unopened envelope from one of the women and gave it to me. In the past he would not have given it to me in an attempt to not hurt me. He has now learned that would have hurt me more…because eventually the truth comes out.

HE MADE NO EFFORTS NOT TO HURT YOU. Dude gets envelops! ONE of the women? There were MANY women sending him Hallmark valentines? WTF?

Oh goodie, he gets a deposit and you get a singular kibble. The unopened envelop of his deceit.

Sweetheart, this is sad. Really, really sad. Yes, eventually the truth comes out, but you have to believe it.

He earned deposits when he was, where he said he would be. He earned deposits when he said “hey listen to this voice mail, I think it is her voice”. He earned deposits when he said “I got an email from her and I didn’t open it. You come deal with it.”

HE IS TORTURING YOU! He is GOADING you into the pick me dance! Come DEAL with his fuckbuddy email? What? Widdle sad sausage can’t hit the delete button?

Chumps, see what you’re missing?

The Trust Bank got robbed. Take your business elsewhere.

This column ran previously. And the RIC is still peddling this shit. 

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I guess what kills me about this is how much more appropriate it seems for disciplining a recalcitrant child- and do you really want to feel like you’re married to a child?

    • Exactly. Also, I wouldn’t want to open his envelopes, emails etc. because I’m not a boss of his. Isn’t that why many claim to cheat, because you’re not a boss of him/her? Coupled with giving the people who generally dislike adulting rewards for good behaviour is just a recipe for further cheating.

      • Yeah you are so right, it’s hardly a way to live is it. Ridiculous if you have to resort to this to build up trust. Time to flee to the hills.

  • This article reminds me that actions speak louder than words. My dad and my lawyer keep telling me to pay attention to my STBX actions. His actions will show me what he wants. Where his heart les.

    His actions show me he does not care about me. His actions are showing me that he spends his time and money on the OW. He loves her and “likes” me. I have to remember that my “trust bank” has a negative balance. It is severely overdrawn. And I cannot keep paying the NSF fees, they are draining me dry.

    • Both my Trust Bank and my real banks had severely negative balances. I am slowly rebuilding my real bank accounts and he has to live every day with what he has done.

      • Gosh, I don’t know but I saw a screen shot on the internet in her home of a stickie note in his handwriting “love you” (and his name).

        But who really knows. Last time I spoke to him on the phone he swore up and down he didn’t love her. I told him “tell HER that” and he went silent. The lying, betraying, gaslighting, blameshifting. Maybe by the time the divorce is final that’s when I’ll learn the truth. Or semi truth. Cause then the lawyers won’t be involved.

  • Yeah, sure, I got “transparency” for all the phone and computer passwords, but he just opened secret email/Facebook/Instagram accounts, and then he got a secret iPhone, paid for by his mistress, and hid it in the beautiful old stained glass window of the sanctuary of our church, where he was the senior pastor.

    Trust that they suck.

    • OMG – but mine was the Church Auditorium Manager and the Vulture was the church receptionist (cliche much?) These ‘godly’ cheaters are the worst … what a mockery of everything they pretend to stand for … so glad you caught them out and hope you kicked them to the curb faster than a benediction …

      • Yep, my trauma therapist told me that church-folk make the best lovers (chumps). So giving, so trusting, so forgiving, so needy.

      • It’s a cruel, ironic mindfuck because it actually makes the chump dramatically less sexy and desirable.

        It’s Mean Mommy. It’s the opposite of mystery. It’s the least powerful position you could accept in a dynamic.

        One can think of few behaviors less demeaning than having your adult partner come to- all hang Dog and fake contrite- where you have to manage and curate his correspondence from whores he’s been fucking?

        It’s sadism.

        I didn’t police Rasputin over women, but I did with drugs. I hated the way I had to be a nag, an investigator, a scold.

        It made me the bad guy, the only Adult in the room, the kill joy.

        3 years out, and the level of hatred boiling in my heart still stops me cold and I have to quickly redirect or self medicate.

        The entire horror show altered my very DNA.

        • Damn, that sucks. I know exactly how that is. My jerk whined; “I’m not your child!” when I tried to talk to him about his alcohol abuse. The rat bastard and his even more drunken twat of a mistress were talking trash about me because I was upset that he rode his bike down busy streets while rip-roaring drunk. I was afraid he’d get killed and that made me Mean Mommy and her Fun Girl because she didn’t give a shit if he lived or died. WTF?

          I’ll never be the same either. May all the cheaters and their APs get ass cancer and die like pigs in hell.

          • This is very insightful. That we are the mean mom to our drunk. And the OW is all party animal and says “oh why can’t you just be allowed to be happy and gay? Be with me honey and I’ll let you do anything!”

            Yay party time For the 50 something-year old!! Around here we call that Uncle Punk. These guys are truly in some kind of mid life crisis that tells them they must be like a frat boy in college on spring break. Porn, strippers, booze, wild abandon. All I know is that’s what he and I did 25 years ago. Been there done that. Had kids grew up

        • Mine claimed I mothered him too but I am not sure what he meant because I never dared question him on anything. Perhaps he meant it in a different way. Apparently he resented all of those years I made his lunches to take to work. How terrible of me to embarrass him like that. I guess it also prevented him from taking other women to lunch without wasting food.

    • If it’s any consolation, my wife pretended to be very Christian and religious. She had 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 emblazoned on her high school jacket and had it read at our wedding. I guess the “love is patient” line meant to her that I was supposed to be patient during her secret affair that lasted a year and during which she lied to me and the kids, and put us through Hell.

      It’s a beautiful passage. But she was a goddamned hypocrite.

  • This sounds an awful lot like marriage policing to me.

    I did not get married with the pretense of being a marriage policeman or a trust account monitor. I got married so I WOULDNT have to be those things, for ANY amount of time.

    • This exactly! I never wanted to compete for a man and I never wanted one I had to control. I never expected to have to do any of those things when I married my ex. I thought he loved me, had chosen me as his forever life partner (kind of implied by those vows he made in front of all of those witnesses), and I thought he was emotionally mature enough to control himself. I was wrong. He was a fraud. I have better things to do with my time that dance or police.

    • This is precisely why I made an appointment with a family practice lawyer within 72 hours of discovering I was a Chump.

      Luckily, I managed to avoid confronting CheaterX. Instead, I googled “what to do when husband is cheating” and came across 2 sites–the first of which was Chump Lady. The other was a broader infidelity site that had loads of articles that basically said that cheaters cheat because they can and whatever you decide to do, you should see a lawyer anyway.

      At that time, I chalked up CheaterX’s cheating as a result of his weak character under stress. His father had died the previous year, and he was under a lot of work stress. I am sure that the RIC would have told me he was a Timid Forest Creature and that we should work on our Trust Bank. However, due in part to reading Chump Lady, I realized I did not want to be married to a man who had “have an affair” as a tool in his coping box. There was no way I would ever be able to unknow that he was capable of cheating, and I absolutely refused to continue in a relationship where I’d have to play Marriage Police.

      The whole Trust Bank concept is a way to gaslight the Chump into accepting the cheating by pretending that as long as the Cheater offers honesty about the cheating, the cheating is acceptable.

      Fuck that shit.

      • Love this…so well said! So true, a good reminder!

        I realized I did not want to be married to a man who had “have an affair” as a tool in his coping box

    • Yup! When I tried wreckonciliation for a few months, at first he was pretending to be transparent. Then when he wanted it on lock down and insisted that I do the same (WTF) I told him I wasn’t going to let what he did change who I was. I refused to lock any of my shit down since I had nothing to hide and he just wanted more reasons to accuse me. And I also informed him I would not be checking in on him because WTH is the point of being married if we had to do that.

      I finally added the whole “oh I don’t want to be with someone who cheats” thing at the end of those 6 horrendous months. I actually think he was UPSET I didn’t marriage police before, during or after because that meant no hypotenuse.

  • I think Chump Lady read my mind this morning, because I was thinking about this exact thing.

    What nobody gets is that the cheating is not a one off thing and that you can restore your former opinion of someone. Ever. You can convince yourself for a period of time that you can, but you cannot. In one second my ex went from being what I consider a Good Person, someone who had the best interest of me and our family foremost, a person who had morals to a person who was a liar, an adulterer, basically a deserter of a very small child, and a whoremonger. None of this was speculation, it was all proven fact. He became a person I NEVER would have married. I do wish I never had, but he his his true character (actually, lack of…)

    • “What nobody gets is that the cheating is not a one off thing and that you can restore your former opinion of someone. Ever. You can convince yourself for a period of time that you can, but you cannot.”

      THIS! I even told this to STBXH as a means of trying to get him to understand the severity of what he had done to my vision of him. I told him I’d NEVER be able to see him in the same light again. Ever.

      I should’ve known when he asked ‘well why not’ what he was. Really?!

  • Ha! My ex couldn’t be bothered to do the work. He simply said “I wish you would trust me again.” Because that would make it all better for HIM. It’s taking me years to see who he is, my denial was so strong.

    • I got this line too followed with the insane statement that “overall I’m a pretty trustworthy person”. All I could do is blink and stare with mouth agape. There’s no way for me to process such an insipid statement. No response.

      He actually believes he isn’t a liar. At a later point I asked him what are his values, and he took a dramatic pause (or a real pause cause he was searching the empty cobwebbed recesses of his brain where values and empathy are stored in normal humans) and the f@$&er actually says, “honesty, I believe I’m a pretty honest person.”

      I laughed. He became offended.

      He actually believes this shite.

      • Some people confuse transparency with honesty and loyalty. A cheater that comes clean believes the ‘honesty’ trumps the infidelity.

        • Oh, absolutely. Mine thought he was so much more noble than all those other cheaters because he came clean…I didn’t catch him in the act. A 7 year affair, Craigslist hookups, dating apps, whores, massage parlors with “happy endings”. Yeah, he’s a real prince.

        • They think if they admit and are ‘honest’, the slate gets (should get) completely clean. Ditto if they actually apologise. Errr … no.

          • Cheater X never admitted anything, even when I walked in the door and heard him stuffing someone into a closet before coming out of the guest room sweaty and with an erection. Claimed he was in there making me a present. I hung out for a couple of hours before going back to work, to his dismay. I should have cut my losses that day, instead of thinking that should have been a lesson.

      • Ahahaha. Reminds me of the time monster, post D-Day, post ILYBINILWY, full throttle into flaunting his whore in my face, came home and started telling me a story about work. He stumbled on his words a bit – I think because he was about to describe a coworker as a bitch and he thought I wouldn’t like that. I said, Go ahead, say what you were going to say, she’s a bitch, right? He said, I would never say that! I’m a gentleman! I had been maintaining my poker face somehow throughout the entire ordeal, but I broke then and laughed in his face. The delusion.

      • Yup! Among the many ongoing abuses after dday was the contention that I was actually to blame for everything because it was clear I would never forgive and forget, which is the sort of thing that happens when your spouse has a fully functioning brain. Sheesh. The affairs? Well, hey, not the problem. My reaction? Clearly the main issue. 🤷🏻‍♀️

      • I got a very similar line from my wife. I told her that sounded like “being a little bit pregnant”. She did not find my comment as witty as I thought it was.

      • Oh yeah this, mine told me ‘he”s not the type of guy to have affairs’ (image management) and I actually believed him. Actually I believed in him wholly. Silly me. I still think he believes to this day he isn’t that type of guy. I gather he had some therapy which along with the outpourings of insta friendly quotes from OW helped him realise how I had come to make him so lonely ill and needing to cheat. So I made him do it what a surprise. He did eventually tell me ‘that’s what people do in shit relationships they have affairs. Now here’s a game, which of the statement she said of the two above did he say before he knew I knew he’d had an affair and which one did he say after. Hmmm, tough isn’t it.

        What is this garbage about Trust Bank. My mind won’t compute. I’d walk out of that couples therapy for sho’

  • I don’t know why I remember one particular day but I do. My child was about 3 years old, and I’m relatively certain the ex wasn’t cheating on me at that time. It’s an intuition but I would bet money on it.

    It was a weekend, we had been to the pool. We were back home, ex was taking a nap, child was in her room watching TV, and I was cooking dinner. Suddenly, I just had this moment of complete happiness. Security. Peace of mind. I had a family, and a person who would defend it, and me. I still can remember that, and I will say, I never once felt that way again with the ex after he cheated on me. Not once. You cannot put enough shit in a trust Bank for that to ever happen.

    • Anita, I had the same exact realization in the same way as you.

      The happiest moment of my life? My daughter was about two months old. My husband had taken a number of our friends (all couples) sailing on San Francisco Bay to watch a fireworks show put on every April by a local radio station.
      I stayed home and was with my daughter. I was with her in the rocking chair that evening. She was very tiny (6 pounds or so) and she was sleeping. I was watching a movie (Children of Heaven). I will never forget the bliss, the security, the peace of mind.

      I will never feel that way again with him ever. He murdered it. And what a stupid man. That’s the feeling most people seek above all others. People kill themselves every day trying to have that feeling by using drugs and drinking, by all the addictions under the sun that you can imagine. He could have had that feeling too and he threw it away with both hands.

      I cannot and will not be married to STUPID.

      • Once the trust is gone what is left? For most of us, by the time we discovered the extent of the lying, cheating, etc. (usually while being told we are crazy), the damn “trust bank” has been burned to the ground. Who wants to rebuild on the site of a toxic dump?

      • This hits me closely because I still can recall that feeling of being safe when he’s around. Obviously, now it’s spoiled also by his increasing nastiness overall, but I remember what it was like. He gave me that for years. It will never come back, I don’t want it anymore, with anyone. I may have a partner in the future, but I will never look for security from them. I now too much about the real state of things to even believe it for a second. I never would have, if I’d known these people existed. I had come to believe in fairytales and I don’t anymore.

    • This!!! The wonderful life and serenity you felt is gone!!
      I remember looking at my life and feeling completely content and loved; and feeling somewhat superior to others because of the great marriage I had… GONE. Replaced with fear, vigilance, and pain.

      • Wow, so funny how we chumps are so much alike. I remember that moment too. He was at work and he worked overnight as a deputy. The kiddos were snug in their beds, they were probably 6 and 7 or so. He called me to say good night and I hope you have sweet dreams. Then he texted me and said, I love our life, I love our family, and I love you so much. I had always been happy and felt secure but in that moment I thought -wow-I am the luckiest girl alive-married to my best friend, a great home, great kids and I texted him, isn’t it a great feeling to know that you are set for life with the life that you wanted? He said always. I went to sleep that night with the most content feeling I have ever felt. I will never feel that again. I am remarried, but after having the love of my life devastate me, I will never ever have that feeling with anyone. And that makes me very sad.

        • Chumpity,

          I feel that same sadness that I will never have that safe feeling again. Because after I saw how my husband, who I adored, just abandoned us, and after reading here all the shitty cheaters out there I feel like I’ve lost an innocence and trust for everyone. I know that’s not fair for other good dudes, but being abandoned is a special kind of mind fuck.

          Yes, I know everyone is not the same. But over the weekend I was out with friends, one of whom had been cheated on by his wife who left him for his sister’s husband. Another friend and I were laughing and he was telling me about chasing this one girl (she had also cheated on her husband years ago and left him) and I was just like “Fuck, what the actual fuck is wrong with everyone?”

          Then we have that dickbag Epstein from yesterday and other previous post about feeling young and bitter and people ghosting you on dating websites and I’m feeling really off kilter this week.

          I hope I can trust someone else again, but my trust isn’t just broken for my ex but in general and that makes me even more sad. I’m still young and would like to find real honest love, but I’m afraid I might be too emotionally damaged for all that.

          • No you are not too emotionally damaged. It takes time to heal. That feeling of peace and security can come with yourself-no matter who is around. It’s nice when you feel someone has your back, but it’s nicer to know you can rely on yourself. And when you find someone who can share that with you and respect it in you, the feeling is even better.
            Trust that they suck is a great truth. But an even better one is “ trust yourself”.

          • You WILL have that safe feeling again. You create it for yourself.
            A safe home, a safe career, a safe life. You will need nothing more.

      • Yes, it seems that I was not the only one here that felt CONTENT in my life. Content in our children, our history and what we have achieved as a team. Post divorce, one of my co-workers stated “but you were always so happy!”. My response was “I didn’t know that I was not supposed to be!” The trust bank is gone, but he can NEVER steal my character nor integrity. I did what I was supposed to do.

    • I had this same feeling once too, when my first born was maybe 6 months old, we were all in the kitchen, and had music on and just dancing around and making dinner. I was holding my daughter and I said to him, how lucky our daughter was that she had two parents that loved each other and her so much and she would always have an intact family because at that time I really thought that was what we had. I do remember he didn’t have much of a reaction to that, probably because he already knew that would never be the case. I’m so glad I got rid of those rose colored glasses.

    • Yes, I had times like that, too. And Velvet Hammer is right, they threw something away that people all over the world would give anything to have.

      A baboon can pick up a diamond and never realize it has value.

    • In October 2015 we took a family trip to San Diego. We’d arranged for both daughters to swim with the dolphins at SeaWorld. In the pool they were over-the-moon excited — M the Younger was bouncing and jumping the entire time. They were the happiest and most excited than I’d ever seen them for anything.

      I turned to the Kunty Kibbler, held her hand, kissed her cheek, and said: “Look at them. We’re so fortunate. THIS makes everything worth it, doesn’t it?”

      6 days later, back at home, she asked for an open marriage.

    • This resonates. I remember having made the huge decision, at his urging, to be a SAHM. Shortly thereafter, was driving around with my kiddos, doing some routine mom thing or another, and thinking what an utterly charmed life I was leading. Deep contentment with it all.

      A few days later came multiple allegations (all substantiated, but dismissed my the good old rich boy network, though he was ultimately kicked out with generous severance) of sexual harassment of subordinates.

      I stepped away from tenure for that, and he knew it.

      So much yikes.

      • As a fellow academic who gave up tenure to be the SAHM of my husband’s dreams, I sympathize. I can’t regret the time I spent with my kids, but I sure as hell resent ever having given up my agency to benefit a jackass. After 5 years, I had confirmed that I really did not want to be a SAHM, and start reapplying for jobs in my field. I was fortunate to be able to return to my career–not only because I thrive with my work, but because I wasn’t dependent a couple years later when the EX met his “soul mate.” I do not know if I would have ever found the courage to leave if I didn’t have my own job.

        I hope you’ve had the good fortune to find employment you value (and that values you). At the least, I figure being a SAHM parent for kids at the cost of valued career opportunities extended our influence over the kids and limited that of their other parent.

        But, good grief, stepping away from tenure is such a huge “gift” to give someone else, even a wonderful someone else, that to have it devalued by the very person who demanded it is something between infuriating and unspeakable. It is one more example of the way cheating is much, much more than extra-marital sex.

        • Every time I hear about people who stepped down to be a SAHM at the insistence of their selfish and ultimately cheating husbands (or wives but you don’t hear of that one as much) I am that much more relieved that I refused when my ex put that same pressure on me. It’s great to be a stay at home parent when it’s what you want and you are capable of it but it just isn’t me. I am a better mom because I work. I am also a better divorcee because I work, I am not completely dependent on my ex, and I have an identity outside of wife and mother to his kids (I am mother to my kids). Thank God I stuck up for myself on that one issue. I know my marriage would have ended the same way even if I had gone along with his wishes. He would have found some other way to devalue me, probably by complaining that I wasn’t SAHMing right.

          • I DID get the “you are not a good mother” thing a LOT. And not a good cook, and not a good decorator, and not a good housekeeper, and not a good anything domestic. And then—I was also “boring” because I was not doing anything interesting. But any time I tried to do something for me, he was angry that I was not doing what he wanted for him. Meanwhile, he pursued any hobbies he wanted to, and I was the one doing 99% of the child care. And then he was angry I spent too much time with the kids. But the kids were never good enough for him. “I thought you would be the kind of mother who …”

        • They have no gratitude because they feel entitled to you making such sacrifices. It means nothing to them.

            • They LOVE the financial control. Makes them feel powerful.
              They want you in a weak financial position, so you’re more controllable and much less likely to leave.

    • Oh gosh, this hits close to home. I remember those moments of complete peaceful simplicity. And I didn’t take them for granted. But, he never ever felt such things. He only felt bored and trapped and ill never understand why. We had a simple but wonderful life.

  • This is infuriating! What BS. “He got a deposit every time he told the truth about something he would have lied about previously.”

    Yeah, because there’s no way a practiced deceiver–someone capable of sneaking around with MULTIPLE schmoopies–could game that system. (Heavy sarcasm).

    • You wouldn’t believe the inanity of many comments from the mouth of paid professionals…
      “Surely you’d know by now if there were more to know..?” No, I didn’t know and I KNEW I DIDN’T. But eventually I did learn enough to decide to leave. No thanks to Genius Therapist, however.
      “What do you think he did? A woman’s instincts always know best” Of course I know the situation is fishy. That does not equal to me knowing.

      Victim-blaming at its finest!

  • He was making deposits all right, but not in a damn trust bank!!
    After a marriage counselor suggested I get all his passwords and we have complete transparency I read a text by my ex “Hey, she has my email passwords, we need to only text” He also changed her name on his phone. They will find a way to cheat if they want.

  • PS….

    There is a giant room at San Quentin prison where they keep all of the homemade weapons ingeniously made out of everyday objects by prisoners, whose highest priorities are protection or intent to do harm to other inmates.

    Cheaters highest priority is to cheat, and outwitting chumps is like catnip to people like this. I have no illusions about the futility of keeping someone from fucking other people and devising new methods of keeping it a secret. And more importantly, that is no way to be in a relationship.

    I learned long ago that blowing out trick candles is a waste of my time.

  • The entire Trust Bank concept really bothers me. It is like they are teaching the way to give the illusion of being trustworthy, not actually being trustworthy.

    Do what you say. Be where you say you are. These are the minimum basic requirements for being a decent human being. You should not get Credit for doing them, you should not require being told to do them.

    My ex was a fan of the “passive” lie. If I didn’t ask him, Did you have lunch with a whore today? Did you make a visit to a whore’s house today? and he didn’t volunteer that information, apparently he considered himself to be being honest. Noooo, it is called a lie of omission. Lying is the Intent to deceive. So you can do what you say, and be where you say you are and still be a damn liar.

    • I got that one too.
      “I never lied to you.” is what she told me as I discovered at least two affairs. Somehow the wedding vows slipped from her memory I guess.

      • Mine called his lies ” white lies”. No, it was full on deception. What people call white lies are usually just opinions they keep to themselves to not hurt people’s feelings. Yes I like your haircut. No I don’t mind picking you up, etc.

    • So how many trust bank points does a “passed” polygraph earn? A passive lie doesn’t get picked up in polygraphs, especially by pathological liars like sociopaths and psychopaths and the polygrapher doesn’t let you observe the test lest you impact the process. Regardless, what hope is there for a marriage that needs regular polygraphs? The RIC and “Sex Addiction” Therapists should be called out for this nonsense.

  • My X Asshat was never up to zero even from the start of the relationship. It was never reciprocal and he played keep-away with his heart the whole time. It was always a pursuer/distancer dynamic with him pulling me in long enough to keep me hooked and then pushing me away. He built my feeling that I knew him better than anyone and he was just a special Rubik’s cube that didn’t bubble up with phony emotional displays. When I got him to express warmth toward me I felt like the key master and I was 100% sure I was the only one who could access those special places in his soul.

    Bullshit.

    His intermittent reinforcement kept me on the line for 31 years but he was always looking for something else to break up his boredom with life. The devalue was loooonng but I realize now I was never special. He never loved me. And he will not love anyone else, either.

    So I was not a bank, I was a charity. I devoted my own precious resources as well as active ‘fund raising’ of constant spackling to make him something he is not. I accommodated and compensated for him for three decades and got kicked in the teeth as he stomped out the door.

      • me too. 31 years. I made my needs so small that they didn’t even exist anymore. Now I’m Free!

    • Now I.C., most eloquently put!! I could not have written this in any better way to describe my relationship with my ex who I was married to for 29 years! After reading your post, I can see how damaging this has been to me and understand why I still, nearly 6 years post DDay, feel damaged! I suppose I always will!
      I am sorry that you went through this too as did many of our fellow chumps! I hope that your recovery is continuing x

  • And really, who wants to interrogate their spouse about what they do all day??? I don’t. There really aren’t enough questions you can ask to get the truth from a Liar.

  • I’m embarrassed to admit that I actually believed in this shit during my unicorn chasing days. SMH!!

    The trust bank is a ridiculous metaphor at best and it keeps chumps stuck while they wait for the mythical deposits to be made so they can trust the cheater again.

    Even if trust was like a bank, when a cheater lies, cheats and blows up a family, it’s not the equivalent of being set back to zero dollars. It’s the equivalent of negative numbers that haven’t yet been expressed by humans. Militant unicorns insist that the “zero” the account drops to after cheating is equivalent to the zero balance you had for that person when you met them. You didn’t know them but over time deposits were made until you eventually trusted them. “Your newly robbed trust bank is back to zero but after each trust deposit, it can be built back up to where it was before the cheating.” Riiigggghht!

    You can’t unring that bell; you can’t unfuck that whore/man whore! There aren’t enough trust deposits in the world to make this metaphor work, even if it was an appropriate metaphor!

    • I don’t think that you or anyone else should feel embarrassed at chasing the unicorn. New Chumps are emotionally shattered. Our world has completely exploded, and we’re desperate to make it whole again.

      The RIC, though, should feel profound guilt and shame that it peddles this crap to people who are in emotionally-vulnerable situations. Especially since the RIC often gets money from poor Chumps who enter into these one-sided “trust” games without understanding that it’s fruitless to trust someone who’s demonstrated that they cannot be trusted.

  • I’ve heard about the trust bank a million years ago through Steven Covey’s 7 Habits.

    But wasn’t the whole point of the “trust bank” analogy is that it doesn’t make much “financial sense” to “invest” in somebody who has a negative account with you? And that sometimes, it makes more sense to evict a shitty tenant than keeping them in the slim hope that maybe someday they’ll pay you the money that’s owed? And that, under no circumstance, should you give in to the sunk-cost fallacy?

    Like, that was the whole point of the analogy? Drop that moron as a client/SO and find yourself a better investment of your money/time/energy?

    Only the RIC would turn solid advice into pure shit.

  • My asshat ex serial cheater is marrying his AP today. They are both cheaters. How does the trust bank work then? Does their bank have a different name? It’s all such nonsense and yet their union will be celebrated by plenty of people who “believe in love”. Trust bank? More like STD bank. I hope they both make permanent deposits.

    • So Brad and Angelina/Tori and Dean are getting married today? You need to watch some episodes of “True Tori” after Dean cheats….this worked like a tonic on me. These people have no relationship skills and they think switching banks is the answer to their inability to balance a checkbook. (More accurate bank analogy here).

      Love without truth is not love. You can call a pig a zebra all you want. and it’s still a zebra.

      If they understood love they wouldn’t be cheaters.

      Read “The Emperor’s New Clothes” every night before bed to remind you of reality.

      And YOU dodged more bullets, even though it may not feel like it.

      Get well soon. ❤️

    • Hrm. Maybe they are like the mafia now. They have a ruthless bond because they know how evil they can be, just like a big crime family. They are ready to whack each other with infidelity at any moment. Sleep with one eye open or sleep with the fishes.

  • I like Brene Brown’s analogy of a “trust jar” much better. She likens trust to a jar full of marbles that her kid’s teacher has in class; when the class is listening and following instructions, the teacher puts in a handful of marbles, and when they’re acting up, she’ll take marbles out.

    When we have interactions with people that make us feel safe and fully seen, we put trust in their jar. When someone says or does something that makes us feel judged or less than, we take trust out of their jar. Full jars are the people you call when you need help, or a shoulder to cry on. Most of us had full jars for our cheaters because we trusted them with our whole hearts.

    But here’s the key: people can make decisions that are so destructive that not only are all the marbles dumped out of the jar, the jar is broken. My cheater broke my jar for him, so even when he (supposedly) ditched Schmoopie and (supposedly) turned back towards our family, nothing he did could fill that jar back up. The marbles just run out the bottom.

    I was lucky. My cheater agreed to a generous settlement and didn’t fight me on the separation. Still, I look askance at him whenever he does something thoughtful or generous, wondering what his agenda is. If he’s playing me, I need to keep my distance. If he’s genuinely using this experience to become a better person, then my constant doubt and skepticism is toxic for him. Either way, I think infidelity is the death of trust, and going through the rest of your life locked in a marriage with someone you can’t trust (and modeling that dynamic for your kids) is far, far worse than being alone.

    • I am still near the beginning of the separation/divorce process. Cheater did something nice for me this week, getting the car inspected and oil changed, while I was out of town. My first thought is, ‘what is he trying to pull? Is he buttering me up for something. Or just trying to manage his own guilt?’.

      No trust here.

      • Trust your gut LNTD. And trust he sucks. A cordial divorce and generous settlement will show you if he’s contrite. But that’s not likely.

      • My STBXH did “something nice” for me and my car too that I usually took care of. He made sure the tires were good, the inspection was done. Heck even stopped to get the registration in order on our last Friday we ever spent together. Then a weekend of supposed “reconnecting” turned into a 2 day sociopathic rant/inquisition/accusation to me.

        Looking back…I think he wanted to “be a good guy” and make sure he took care of the car so I could use to get away from him and his mind would be at ease since “car was all taken care of and paid off”
        Gee…nice guys and they wonder why we don’t trust them.

        I wish it was genuine. It’s not. Mine was amicable until I started holding him accountable with the legal process. Then the true colors come FLYING out. Don’t let him distract you!

    • Not Today,

      I got lucky too. And, years ago on Dday#1 – long before I knew that term even existed, I got lucky too because I was young, in love, and just starting a family so when he confessed and we ‘did therapy’, I believed it all. Especially the part wherein he would get mad if I ever gave voice to my fears about not trusting him or mentioning any feelings I had related to the topic at all. In other words, I was being told to forget that it ever happened and life was supposed to go on as though nothing had happened. I believed it all and chastised myself for any feelings of apprehension.

      If I had had a jar to fill with marbles I would have filled it to the limit. No internet back then, no way of knowing ‘once a cheater, always a cheater’ so I was blissfully ignorant – trusting him 1000% and thus began the decades wherein I slowly but surely began to take marbles out of my own ‘trust jar’ and deposit them all into his. The balance = he was trustworthy/right and I was wrong/to blame for everything. A slow but methodical march into my own self depreciation while hero worshiping the cheater. My self deception was exquisite

      And I was happy – busily raising our children NEVER suspecting that he had just become more devious with his cheating.

      Dday #2 happened over 2 decades later. I foolishly thought I could learn to trust him again because, once I discovered the RIC shit, I jumped in feet first and gave it my all. Full blown pick-me dancing which lasted until I somehow discovered LACGAL wherein the trajectory of my life changed and my life has not been the same since. As some wise person recently put it – I hit ‘warp speed evolution’.

      I have now, thanks to CL and CN, constructed a trust jar for myself; slowly gaining trust for myself again. Teaching that part of myself the I betrayed far worse than he ever did that I can be trusted and that I will do anything to earn my trust for myself back again.

      An amazing journey. Painful as all get out but my jar keeps filling up with each new challenge I face, and despite my advanced years, I feel young at heart again. Like life really can start over again and feel fresh.

      So, I did learn to trust again but the ONLY one fooled was me. Shame on me. Now, with this second go around, I am learning to trust again but there is only one jar and it belongs all to me.

      I am a survivor of betrayal and of the RIC and an avid fan of CL’s.

      Thanks for sharing about the jars. Fits perfectly and having won the settlement lottery I am blessed and I do know and appreciate that knowing that many are not as lucky as I am. Spending years in uncertainty being gaslit and then screwed over by the courts as well at the end when things come crashing down around them.

  • I have never seen this show (never will either) but I thought the young woman dodged a bullet. Maybe ChumpLady and ChumpNation ARE making inroads!

    “I ended it in my heart and not verbally,” Jed said. Seriously.

    Understandably, Hannah looked stunned with that excuse. “You said you loved her on a phone call! And a text the day of!” she pointed out. “What do those words mean to you?”

    “I didn’t know til I met you,” Jed protested, even though no amount of smooth lines could save him.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/07/31/bachelorette-finale-implodes-hannah-breaks-up-with-winner-lying-about-another-woman/?utm_term=.04ccd2b1bd96

    • This was the latest Bachelorette right? I read an article about that. After her final pick she found out that he had a girlfriend back home who he had said “I love you” to and had promised to return to after the show because “he wasn’t going to fall for her” (bachelorette). I was thrilled that when the bachelorette found out she dumped him immediately and unequivocally in spite of his many excuses and continued professions of “love”. It must have taken a lot of courage to admit that she picked wrong after having worked so hard to narrow it down to one guy out of 30. There is a girl who is confident in her self-worth and knows better than to partner with someone like that. She told him “how can you possibly be ready to get engaged.” You go girl! I was also thrilled that her response has gotten such a universally positive reception and that he is being castigated for being the asshole that he is. So much for his attempts at promoting his music career. Buh bye. Makes my heart sing.

      • P.S. I don’t watch the show either (or the Bachelor counterpart) because watching people pick me dancing would be triggering for me even if they do knowingly and willingly sign up for that humiliation.

      • P.P.S. how humiliating for the girlfriend to have to watch her boyfriend fall in love with someone else on national television. Ugh!

        • I hope that his girlfriend dumped him as well as his entire family rounding on him and giving him a lot of grief over what he did.

          I don’t know – on the one hand it could be humiliating; on the other hand it would certainly underscore that losing him was dodging a bullet.

  • That sounds exhausting. I hope that the person who wrote the letter took her business elsewhere! I’d rather keep my money in a low-interest, low-risk account (stay single) than put my money into that high-risk venture that, unlike buying stocks in the real world, will likely only result in total loss.

  • After Dday when I was in the darkest of dark days and pick me dancing like a fool I read about this so-called trust bank. Because my ex never had any remorse and very quickly turned to rage on his Narc channel and continued openly cheating, I remember feeling heartbroken that he wouldn’t try to put deposits in a trust bank. I remember searching the web looking for ways in which I could “make” him be remorseful and put any effort into our marriage. All of the RIC actions seemed to require a “wayward” spouse who was willing to do something—mine wasn’t. I was frantic. 18 weeks after Dday I found CL, and was gobsmacked. I hated and feared the reality I heard here but it at least fit: I could answer the question easily: x’s Conduct was NOT ok with me. I could act. I told him to GTFO until he was willing to: go to long-term inpatient drug/alcohol drug rehab; sign an enforceable post nup giving me 85% of all assets, alimony for life, full custody; commit to a year of abstinence, intense individual therapy, separation, and polygraphs to confirm compliance. I held this offer open for a year. X refused all. I went NC. I lived on this site. I focused all my energy on my kids and career. I filed. We divorced. Trial judge gave me ALL assets, 6 mo of alimony, full child support and full custody after a hellish week long trial. I refinanced my mortgage, paid off $120k in lawyer Bill, got a great job making double my prior income, kept on being the sane parent and loving my kids. Stayed NC. Met a wonderful man who WANTS me and only me. No cheating history. I feel a lot of sadness and anger about what X did to me and the kids, but I also have a lot of relief that X didn’t do any fake RIC shit— it saved me years of insanity and forced me to move on. Futility is a positive in this situation. Painful AF, but accelerated my journey to Meh, which is awesome.

  • When you find out you’ve been cheated on, you are dealing with shock, but mostly grief. Grief for the loss of the life, relationship, trust, certainty, reality that you thought you had.

    The five stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. The RIC complex takes full advantage of those stages of grief before acceptance. It’s just as callous and calculated and ruthless as the cheater himself. While you are in denial, while you are bargaining, you will open your wallet and pay and pay and pay. They know this very well and they are literally using, abusing, and taking full advantage of people in their most vulnerable moment.

    In fact if you take a closer look at RIC, their methods are straight out of the cheater narc handbook 101 on how to gaslight people around you, particularly heavy on word salad bs that sounds somehow good but has no rational meaning…like trust bank….

    • I think it’s unbelievable that people think the cheater just lied to me. 15 years of serial cheating with coworkers….”love” affairs…secret “romances”, he lied to EVERYONE! He betrayed them all, violated everyone’s trust. The deceit it takes to keep that lifestyle going is horrifying if you are brave enough to look for it. the trust bank isn’t just with the chump. Yet it seems that all that deceit is placed at my doorstep. Bosses? Oh….he was having an affair….oh he’s divorced now…ok then it wasn’t about us. Clean slate. Friends, kids, he lied to them all, but they can’t call it that…they bundle it all in some little compartment called ” not our problem, chump’s problem ” and go on about their lives. I’m really trying to trust he sucks and move on, but damn.

  • Isn’t marriage or a relationship supposed to be a trust bank? You trust that your partner/friend would try to keep you out of harm’s way, have your back, be in your corner. Once that trust is broken, it’s very hard to repair.

    Even before the cheating, I sensed that our trust bank was not secure. There came a point in the last 2 years that I realized (and tried to deny) that he wasn’t my trusted spouse. He was doing nothing to make me feel loved or secure. I started to look him and see that he did not have my back.

  • I wouldn’t call it a “trust bank” but rather an “emotional bank account.”

    When someone has an affair, they rob the emotional bank account of the partner. It doesn’t just hit zero. It goes deep into the red. At that point, if we follow the metaphor, the bank would cut off the person abusing their account. That’s why it’s smart for chumps to leave at the first affair, go about getting a life, and then see if the cheater is serious about changing and making amends. The problem with the trust account is that like all reconciliation models, it’s skewed toward the criminal. Imagine someone setting a bank account after looting someone else’s bank account and saying “I’ll go to counseling.”

    That’s the other part missing from the assumption that “counseling” is a deposit in a trust account. No. Nope. Nopety nope. Cheaters have committed fraud on the bank, have illicitly taken what they want from someone else. So the first order of business is to make amends. Child support, alimony, the house, majority custody, decent and reasonable behavior during separation and divorce. And even then, the debt may never be cleared.

    • They pull from what should be the mutual marriage investment to make calculated deposits into an offshore account we know not of. Part of the reason to lack compassion for schmoopies is that they are very willing partners in that, which is both subterfuge and crime.

  • I like the metaphor of a bank and used it frequently…to demonstrate to my partner how you always have to be giving in order to take.

    That said, the fact that I had to tell him how to be a good partner…girl (or man), take your business to a different bank. One that understands what is required to stay in business. You are trying to work with some shady black market shit there.

  • My bank gets robbed or my account gets hacked… I CLOSE THE ACCOUNT. I take my business elsewhere. I have dealbreakers and boundaries now and they protect me. In many ways, I thank Mr. Sparkles (in my head) for cheating and leaving our family for the other woman because if he hadn’t, I’d likely still be with him reading RIC articles instead of ChumpLady where I’ve become mighty. I’m raising a great kid my way (as a sane parent)… I know daily where my assets are and what financial future looks like… I plan vacations I want to take… I cook what I want… and I NEVER have to look at the man across me and wonder if this is the day he’ll rob the trust bank again. His newest GF has that job now.

    • Exactly. A minor withdrawal of trust? I forgot to pick up dog food. Then going out an picking up the dog food makes some amends. But I probably wouldn’t trust that person to pick up anything I need.

  • I have a question: What does “UBT” mean?

    As for Trust Bank, I’m thankful I didn’t have to try to put up with that. We went to one counseling session where my cheater said ILYBINILWY and that he wasn’t sure he wanted to “waste another ten years with” me. I filed for divorce two days later. I think a part of me hoped he would beg for forgiveness etc. after I filed for divorce and I’m happy to say he didn’t. Now I’m very clear I don’t want him.

    I’m so grateful to have found this site. I needed it.

  • I too was deep in the RIC sites and found out about the trust bank. I explained how it worked to cheater, he was a bit reluctant at first, but agreed to tell me if OW contacted him, he had dumped her after Dday. I listened to voicemails and read a text message, he said he was making deposits and I started to believe he might actually be a unicorn, until one day he told me that he’d been thinking and that he was going to make a large “deposit” he was going to buy ‘himself’ a new car, you know cos OW had been in the old one, she sat in my seat and they’d made-out in the back, so to save me from the triggers everytime I got in the car he was going to sell it. At that point I could see he was only in this bank for what he could get out of it. He had rigged it so he got what he wanted, a new car, under the guise of making a deposit, which was my idea, therefore he was only doing what I had asked. After that I closed that “account” once and for all.

    • Aw gee! and he was going to buy himself a new car to make it up to you! Nothing says “I’m sorry” like buying yourself new expensive shit!

    • What an asshole. They are good at using OUR ideas for genuine reasons for their insidious agendas aren’t they? UGH

  • Perhaps having unrealistic expectations, propagated by cultural myths, make us all vulnerable to bank failure. Is there really a state of bliss called “happily ever after?” People get married and have children for the wrong reasons everyday. We will not find happiness because another person gives it to us. We have to be happy with our own self. Children will not save a marriage, or obligate another to stay married, or “do their duty”. We expect too much from others. Partnership can be beneficial as long as it is truly reciprocal. If one person is always making trust deposits , and the other is always withdrawing assets, there can be no benefit. Even commercials and advertising tell us everyday we will not be happy until we have the latest new things, and can keep up or surpass our world full of others. We stay on an eternal materialistic quest for happiness by having some ethereal thing that others do not have. No wonder we spend so much time being disappointed. We should concentrate on what we already have that tends to make us happy. It is usually something simple, like a sleeping contented child, a moment alone in the bathroom, a good book, or entertainment of some type. A clean house, and cookies baking in the oven. The money to pay the bills that are due. Simple things. Obtainable things. Realistic things. We don’t have to find happiness in another person, but we can enjoy a voluntary spontaneous gift of something of value from someone who is truly trying to help us. When my children were small, a friend offering to take them for a play date with her children so that I could have a moment to myself was one of the greatest gifts in the world — and I was happy to do that for her, as well. We didn’t make the other happy expecting some type of return, but we both knew the value of the offer made from the heart of the other. That is a bank account worth the investment.

    When you are in a one sided relationship with another that can only exist by your constant efforts to reassure yourself that you are not being cheated, you will never be happy. When trust is gone, all the super glue in the world will not put it back together. All the kings horses, and all the kings men . . .


    • Perhaps having unrealistic expectations, propagated by cultural myths, make us all vulnerable to bank failure.”

      AGREED!!! My brother had a mental health issue last year (psychosis episode, 3 day stay in the institution afterwards). My parents insist it’s because he has been rejected so many times. If he only finds someone to make him happy, he’ll be just fine!!

      We are of Hispanic culture, mental health issues are taboo and not discussed. My mother and father are in denial, and I worry for and feel for my brother because he doesn’t want to disappoint them nor disagree with them (I think he thinks it’ll make them not love him anymore). I myself go to counseling and have been on medication for a short while after STBXH left me and kids last year. To this day, mom will talk smack about medication, but as an adult I no longer allow her to influence what I do with my own health, mental or otherwise.

      So I do what I can, which is being honest to my mom about my thoughts on the whole thing. I tell her he needs to talk to someone professional (no, dad says he doesn’t want anyone else “involved”). I tell her it wasn’t the weed, it’s something deeper that may be WHY he was using weed (I was a user for a decade and NEVER had a psychosis episode).

      So then I breach what I believe was one of the reason I also stayed WAY TOO LONG and clung to STBXH also. The belief that finding someone “to make you happy” is the end all be all. My parents are always referencing love in the scope of partnering up. Self love is NEVER mentioned, and not only that is kinda looked upon as being stuck up or wanting to be better than them.

      So I tell mom “mom we were always told happiness and partnership go hand in hand. He thinks he can only be happy if he has someone else because of the way you and dad make marriage such an important part of it. And it’s not. He needs to find love and happiness for himself first or else his issues will always be there”

      And let me tell you. She was NOT having that convo anymore. That’s why I think this generation and the next two are setting a new foundation to make these old ways of thinking from keeping people as victims for the sake of “love”

  • This falls in line with the “love bank” as described in a relation book from the 90s.
    I think it was called His Needs Her Needs.

    If you don’t make enough deposits into the partners love bank you shouldn’t be surprised that they cheat.

    What a load of crap!!

    • The problem I had was that all of my deposits never seemed to go anywhere. I felt like I had a perpetual balance of 0 no matter how hard I tried to fill that bank and how many deposits I made. Meanwhile he’d put in a dime and I would treat it as $1,000,000. Totally lopsided.

        • I’m glad you wrote this: “Love is given not earned by making deposits!!”

          When I was pick me dancing and begging my husband back home, I told him that I give him unconditional love. He responded, you mean that love I have experienced these past few years? He said he believed love is earned like respect. And that id have to earn his love. that really aggravated me and I replied yes that is the same love, it’s the love and forgiveness that I have Given him after he cheated. love is not earned, it’s a feeling you give away to others.

          The idea that I have to do something to earn his love means he’s way not in love with me anymore.

    • What an offensive load of dung! It’s most often the partner who gives *less* who cheats. There is actual research backing this up. So they can fuck off and die with their “love bank” cheaterspeak crapola.

      • Sorry for the double post. I’m having trouble with posts being delayed or not showing up at all here lately.

    • What offensive dung! It’s most often the partner who gives *less* who cheats. There is actual research backing this up. So they can fuck off and die with their “love bank” cheaterspeak crapola.

  • How I despise the RIC bullshit. Why? It assumes a chump has power and control when in fact he/she does not. What they sell is believing!

    Instead fill a trust they suck jar with post it’s detailing the actions of the disordered cluster B.

    Let the OW/OM monitor the ankle bracelet while you like up your ducks.

  • When I discovered my now-ex was texting and calling multiple women while he was originally courting me, I was so distraught I broke up with him. He begged to take me back and I fell for his manipulative false promises, because I believed in the fake dream he created for us. I then demanded access to have phone records and he willfully gave me his password. Jesus, the amount of time I wasted trying to catch him screwing up again is time I will never get back. Cheaters never changed. I only made him smarter. He got another number and a new email address didn’t know about. He stayed at work longer and called women from there so it would not be on a phone record. And then one day, he changed his password to his phone account and gave me some lame excuse why. Point being, once a cheater always a fucking cheater.

    I left my ex. He had zero remorse and guilt about wasting my time and putting my health at risk. He has since gone back to all the sad little women he recycles over and over again because he manipulates them, too. Normally I would feel bad for women who are duped, but they know what he is like and continue in their hopes of thinking he will change.

    Trust they suck. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

  • My own experience with the “trust bank” was the opposite problem. The books I had that referenced it (yes, I was an “Amazon chump”) blamed the chump for the cheating. The cheater didn’t have enough deposits in the “trust bank” or the “love bank” or whatever, so he or she went off and found someone else to top off the account. Once found out, the *chump* could start making deposits into the account, to bring the cheater back into his or her embrace.
    Horsefeathers. Cheaters, even if they are upset about something, always have the option to, say, talk about it instead of destroying the marriage.

  • I had a conversation with my pre-teen son about lying and the effect on interpersonal relationships. I do believe I used the word “trust”, as in once it’s betrayed, it’s gone and will never be back.

    I wish more people would have that kind of conversation with their children.

    It hurts my heart to see how many people today are betrayed and destroyed because other people can’t be true to their word and bond.

    • Hi Soldieringon,

      I spoke to my teen sons about courage and trust. My STBX told my son he hadn’t wanted his cookie cutter marriage for 12 years. I told my son if that was true then he stole 12 years of my life by lying to me. I will never allow my STBX to try and justify his behaviour. If he truly didn’t want his marriage he should have acted on it – to not brands him a coward, a liar, and a cheat.

      • “I told my son that if that was true, then he stole 12 years of my life by lying to me……. to not brands him a coward, a liar and a cheat.”

        Omg I love this. I’m so going to have this conversation with my kids when they’re old enough to understand. Thank you for posting.

        • He stole my money and all my friends. The most unforgivable thing taken from me is my time and all the decisions I made based entirely on lies.

  • I just had a conversation by phone with my uncle this morning. In the year and a half since my STBXH left, my uncle has been fairly silent on the subject of what my ex did. It’s not that I thought my uncle wasn’t on my side, but more that he also felt the betrayal of my ex’s actions. My whole family has seen his cheating and leaving me as a personal affront to them as well. But, I also come from a very Catholic family that believes strongly in marriage.

    Well, the damn burst with my uncle today. For the first time he said that my ex is the biggest idiot he has ever met in his life as he was a man who had it all and gave it up for a floosie. My uncle went on to say that my ex had a wife that most men could only dream of having, and a home and family to be proud of. Now that’s been destroyed so that he can live under a rock of shame with a woman that no one will ever accept (including my own ex’s very Catholic family). Then, he went on to say to me that I am never to trust my ex again. That if he ever comes “crawling” back, that my family would perform an intervention on me if I took him back as they will not accept him back.

    Never trust him again! He betrayed an entire family, two families really. There are no deposit in any trust bank that can start to make a comeback for that.

    But, hey, as long as he’s got the love of his life, the one no one has met or he ever mentions to anyone.

  • Our RIC therapist charged $250 an hour and didn’t take insurance. “If you were a betting person,” she said. “What do you think the odds are that this marriage lasts?” I thought that was an odd thing to say, but in hindsight, it may have been a hint to me to Ruuuuuuun, girl, ruuuuun!! Of course the marriage is now ending, but not until I wasted another four torturous years of being completely abused and degraded by my fuckwit WS. Fuckwit’s latest tirade is that he thinks I’m “immoral” because I’m insisting I get the 50% of our assets required by our state. I laughed and laughed.

    • I hope you laughed and laughed at his face. And checked whether it’s only 50% you’re entitled to.

    • Tizzypins, I hope you laugh all the way to the bank. It is clear he doesn’t know the meaning of immoral.

    • Check on the 50% stats. I live in a 50/50 state too but it is not written in stone. Hunt around for a lawyer who knows their stuff and knows there are plenty of legal ways around what is written as 50%.

      You should be able to consult with lawyers for a reduced fee for a 1st meeting. You will be surprised by how their opinions may differ. Shop carefully because it could make a huge difference in the long run.

  • Yep, you get the enviable task of emotionally and logistically managing someone else’s life, the implication being that if they fuck up again, it’s because you weren’t doing enough. The stupidest thing a counsellor ever tried to sell me on was that there were different levels of trust and could I admit that. He asked me if I could trust cheaterpants to put the garbage on the curb? Well, yes, but who the fuck cares if some garbage gets put out or not? We’re talking about trusting someone not to indulge in major-level betrayal here. But oh no, they wanted to sell me on if I could trust him with the garbage, and then extrapolate that into a huge, all-or-nothing mound of trust. Reading this, he asked me to buy into different levels of trust, but then use that to make a general rule. It makes no sense what-so-ever. Gaslighting might have been a more apt description.

  • I don’t understand how you rebuild trust with someone who lies and cheats to you about the most important thing in your life. Can you imagine what it might be like to be micromanaged in life? I can’t even stand it at work. All this “trust bank” thing does is guarantee that the person will eventually quit and the best you can hope for is that they leave too. Seems to me that the “trust bank” turns a marriage into an aweful job and makes the chump the bad boss in a fucked up company.

    • Well said, CDISGONE. I am glad to be alone rather than live like that. I won’t subject myself to anymore ridiculous attempts to make him love me. He never did. I know that now.

  • Lol trust bank. This gives them one more way to lie and cheat cause while your so impressed with their trust deposits, they’ve opened up a brand new account somewhere else that they’re better at hiding.

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