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Meh Sightings?

MEHHave you had a glimpse of the Promised Land? Are you Meh?

“Meh” — that liberating place of acceptance — is where you no longer are consumed with cheater drama. You don’t love them. You don’t hate them. You sort of pity anyone within a five-mile radius of them, but their existence doesn’t rock yours anymore. You’re Meh. Whatever.

Meh doesn’t mean you’re okay with injustice, or having your boundaries trampled. It means that you’ve internalized “Trust That They Suck.” They SUCK. Not your job to fix them. You’ve got a life to gain — who’s got time for their crap?

So tell me — have you had any glimmers of Meh? Can you see it on the horizon? Are you firmly living within its borders?

If you’re new here, I know Meh sounds like Brigadoon. Oh yeah right. There’s really a mythical place ahead where I ACCEPT what happened and I don’t give a shit about the Fuckwit? He can erect a billboard to his Happiness, post a thousand schmoochy pictures of himself and Twinkie on social media and I won’t vomit on anyone’s shoes?

Yes! Meh exists! Today your assignment is to share your Meh. Describe it. What’s it taste like? How free do you feel?

Maybe you old timers could pick up a few chumpy hitchhikers on the road to Meh. Tell them what’s ahead. Happy Friday!

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at Read more about submission guidelines.
  • It has taken five years, but I am there. I heard that he is marrying the OW. My kids were afraid to tell me, but when they did I just said, “Is that all? I expected that a while ago!”. Personally, I think she threatened to leave if he didn’t marry her, but that is their problem. He leaves us alone now, so I am at “meh”. If he took me to court over support, my meh might evaporate.

    • Uggh, I am going back to mediation Wednesday over child support. I have to say I am about 80% to meh though. It’s more of a irritation, hoping it doesn’t screw things up too bad, than a fear of seeing him. I even scheduled outpatient surgery that morning in spite of knowing I had the mediation scheduled that afternoon. I know I won’t be looking my best. I was more interested in getting the surgery in ASAP than caring what he will think, so that’s a good sign of Meh getting closer from my estimation—–

      • Looking a little poor and sick might make the court sympathize a bit. If it starts going badly you might need to reschedule. 😉

  • I haven’t reached Meh yet but I am getting so good at grey rock/no contact that I just do it automatically now without much thought. Recently we had to have a phone conversation about oldest sons behavior. I said what needed to be said and hung up. He followed up with a text calling me a good mom and a bunch of word salad. My response was just a solid “Tell me about it” nothing more or less. I hope the great land of Meh is on the horizon soon. Until then I’ll just keep working on gaining a life!

    • As a nurse I can tell you if you have anesthesia you are not suppose to make important decisions for 24 hours.

  • Freedom. That’s what it tastes like…TOTAL FREEDOM! I’m about five years out as well but I think I got to my meh right after my second dday. During my mental gymnastics about why this happened again and in the end, I remember laughing at his whole “you pay too much attention to the kids and not me” crap he threw at me. Then I thought…NOPE!…I’ll have none of this! In timely fashion, I found CL/CN, got my ducks in a row, (although that did take 1.5 yrs all under false wreckonciliation on my part) and left him to deal with his own demons. No contact has worked gloriously, aside from kid info/exchanges.

    It wasn’t easy but I will tell you, it was all worth the fight for survival. For my sake. For my three daughters’ sake.

    • TodoVa

      So you initiated a false reconciliation lasting 1.5 yrs in order to get your ducks in a row before divorcing or spouse lead you on with false reconciliation?

      My most recent D-day was 6 weeks ago and we are separated, not legally, but he wants reconciliation. I am just learning about narcissism and the blinders are off. I am considering a temporary “reconciliation ” to get things in order, beat him at his own game.

  • My ex recently introduced his OW to my adult children. At first I had a twinge of pain, but now I’m like meh. My children have to deal with their father and it is their relationship with him has nothing to do with me. But mainly I am thinking that my ex and the OW freaking deserve each other, 2 users that cheat on their spouses being together….. Just give me the popcorn, this could be good.

    • Living in meh here! 3.5 years after Dday. I trust that he sucks. I only ask that he puts the property settlement check in the mail each month and that he and schmoopie leave me alone.
      About every six months he gets
      schmoopie to contact me about the kids (they’re adults) or something so he can play with our emotions, but I’ve reached the point that I can react with an internal ???? and move on with my day.
      Life is good and though there are things I would change, having him back isn’t one of them!

      How did I get to meh?
      1. Strict no contact. I still live strict no contact. I will always live strict no contact. I have taken every step possible to enforce this on my end.
      2. Early on, I wrote down every one of his crazy, abusive behaviors and all incidents connected to his cheating and conning and reread the whole list every time I felt pity or wondered if he cared or wanted him back. I did this until my brain accepted that he had never loved me (he said it himself) and I trusted that he sucked. Then, when I got to he point that I knew he sucked, I burned the list. It was a 20 habit that I had to break so it took a while. My counselor told me that some day I could forgive if I wanted to, but first I must recognize what he is. It worked.
      3. I chose to love myself for the first time. I lost weight (hard in middle age), went back to school, flirted in an online dating site, bought a few new outfits, started taking myself out to do things that I liked, let myself buy a little treat that was just for me each week, cooked the food that I wanted to eat, etc.
      4. I actually flipped him the bird a few times when passing in the car (we live maybe five miles from each other) just for the catharsis. I don’t even know if he could see, but it felt good.

    • Chumptastic – Your story sounds similar to mine – and I too have reached meh – EXCEPT for the twinge of my adult children meeting the OW. She too was married, and cheating with my ex for two years during their marriages before they both divorced and married. My adult children still refuse to meet her, and it has been 4 years, 3 that they are married. Complications are on the horizon though, as my oldest son and DIL are expecting my first grandchild. Not sure I can maintain MEH if there is any involvement at all. Thankfully the OW is more narcissistic than my ex, so I cannot imagine she will even want to get involved. When the boys rejected her all these years, she apparently made statements that she was never interested in meeting them. Poor Schmoopie. NOT!

  • Just this last week or two, almost 8 months post-DDay and I’ve glimpsed Meh. and today – I signed my financial/parenting legal docs so in a week or few will be financially free of him and custody more set in stone. I thought I’d be really emotional, sad, hurt. But it was anticlimactic. I messaged my family and friends and felt real love and support back and felt good. Meh sighted! I think it’s also finally sunk in that whoever this guy is, he’s a complete stranger to me and not the guy I married or had kids with (more of an abandonment one, not a narc). And I’m more aware of the triggers around the married I trust that they suck!

  • I have reached Meh for the most part. It does indeed taste of pure, unadulterated freedom! There is a light at the end of the tunnel! Keep going. You’ll get there!

    • Word!!

      I look at this week’s topics and I see an encapsulated version of the Chump experience from discovery to freedom on the other side. I am bookmarking this week’s blog as my personal Chump Clif notes….thanks Tracy!!

      As for me and Meh?

      DDay October 2017. My 20th wedding anniversary. Happy Anniversary. Not.

      August 2019. My daughter and I are staying with a friend at her cabin in the woods on the river in Sandwich, New Hampshire. Last night we went over to her sister’s house for dinner with her extended family. Homemade lasagna. I can eat again! Sitting around the table talking. I can talk about normal
      stuff again and I feel social again! The kids are running in and out, playing with sparklers. They put on a play that was so cute! People playing badminton. A big house on a big property next to the woods. The sound of crickets for the ambient “music”. We all ended up in the living room playing a guessing game…I think it’s called “Hedspace”? LAUGHING and HAVING FUN until midnight! I have not laughed and had fun in ages and never thought I would, ever again!
      We got back to the cabin and I slept for eight hours without waking up once!

      I am sitting by the river right now and I just realized the cheaters never entered my mind last night. This family made us feel loved and a part of, included, cared about.
      I felt at home, content, secure, peaceful. Feelings that are not authentically possible for liars, traitors, thieves, cheaters.

      I win.

      • Dear Velvet,
        Your last 2 sentences say it ALL!! I aspire to get to contentment and peace of mind…baby steps.

      • Velvet, sounds like you had a lovely time, genuinely fun. When Cheater was around family or social gatherings it would be like having a dark cloud lurking about in the shadows.
        If the conversation revolved around him and he was the center of attention, telling stories about his time in the military, the fall modesty, dying for people to ask questions, he’d be in his glory.
        Otherwise he’d be like a wet rag.., giving me looks from across the room, if I was chatting, laughing just being social.
        On the way home he’d list the things he thought should be brought to my attention, I laughed too loud, or he’d bring up other perceived social blunders he thought I’d made.

        • brit- thanks for the reminders! ” When Cheater was around family or social gatherings it would be like having a dark cloud lurking about in the shadows.
          If the conversation revolved around him and he was the center of attention, telling stories about his time in the military, the fall modesty, dying for people to ask questions, he’d be in his glory.
          Otherwise he’d be like a wet rag.., giving me looks from across the room, if I was chatting, laughing just being social.”
          Oh gosh, I remember a many parties where he would sulk because no one was talking about him, or he couldn’t contribute as creatively as others (he hated it when I had a good time!)
          All the family parties and occassions I set up where beforehand he’d be miserable and unhelpful, But when the parties got going, he was always the happy center of them. And I’d stay in the shadows, having fulfilled my Wife Appliance function.
          THANK GOD THOSE DAYS ARE OVER!!!! Yeeehaawww

          • I got in trouble once after a dinner gathering because the friends of mine that he was meeting for the first time ‘were too articulate.’

            • hahaha! so pathetic. We were at a Robbie Burns party once- (theatre crowd) – and the fun was to write questionable limericks about men in kilts. It was hilarious. BUT the usually articulate narcissist couldn’t write anything remotely poetic or funny. He realized it (and so did a lot of people). He hated that i was making people laugh, and he obviously couldn’t keep up (with all of us “lesser” people, the wife appliance and (other) employees and friends). So he sulked all the way home, and for days afterwards.
              Later on, he very very cruelly put me down (with that bemused little smile on his face).
              I am So happy to be at least on the fringes of MEH with other happy people around. And I don’t have to keep up with his “feelings”

            • Pathoftotality

              Only ‘once’?! 🙂

              I got critiqued after any kind of social event so often I thought it was ‘normal’ – like it was actually his job to do that. I am sorry to say that I never once thought to say to him, “If I want your opinion, I’ll ask for it.” I didn’t know how to stand up for myself.

              Since finding CL and CN I am finding words to use in order to defend myself and it feels good. When I have defended myself I feel a new sense of inner strength being tapped into. Something I wasn’t aware of before either.

              I was so into denial it shocks me! I was putty in his hands.

              Well, not anymore.

              Thanks for sharing.

            • Pathoftotality: jealous little minded fuckers.
              To articulate, the nerve…lol
              That is an Assholian for sure.

  • Have I reached MEH yet? No. But, I have freedom. I can do whatever I want. My bedroom no longer smells like cigarettes. I am saving money. I no longer have to pay for a man childs toys. My money is my own. I can play any kind of music in my car without the man child turning it off. I am no longer sitting at home alone while he was sneaking around with Skankella.

    My ex and Skankella broke up. My Ex dumped her when we were going to work on our marriage. She has been posting on Facebook how she was used. Begging for money. Sending me threatening texts. I just blocked her number. My Ex just called me yesterday wanting to meet. He said he knows he screwed up and would like us to start dating. I told him I do not date anyone who cheated on me. I am getting close to MEH.

  • I found out that they are fighting constantly, and it didn’t give me nearly as much satisfaction as it would have a couple of years ago. I’m four years out. So not quite Meh Nirvanah, but I can see it coming. So “glimpse of meh” sounds about right

  • Two years out from BD, 8 months D, and ‘meh’ is living in my house. Thanks Chump Nation. No contact, no turning back, my life is awesome after 34 year marriage. Loved my X, thought we had a great marriage, adult children, great life but….we apparently didn’t. So…hes gone with OW. I rebuilt my life, new high paying job and finding the person I use to be before I gave that person up. No more, for no man. Onwards and upwards for me now.

  • I’m getting there! And I feel so happy most of the time. I am almost a year past my last d-day (there were many) and I did the usual untangling the skein and trying to understand WHY. I was with him for 45 years, married 41, and I now know he cheated the entire time. My last conversation with him, while I was trying to work out the details of selling our house, he was extremely unpleasant and began his usual blaming me for the demise of our marriage. It wasn’t his constant cheating. Oh no, it was because I put the kids first, wouldn’t get over the cheating, didn’t support his pie in the sky dreams of starting various weird businesses (he’s 65 and never run any business—he’s a fucking pilot and that’s all he’s ever done), on and on with the usual cheater blame game. And something in me finally clicked. I don’t need this!! I’m fine alone. Happy actually. I have a good job, my kids love me and want nothing to do with him, I’ve made lots of new friends, I have a wonderful extended family. I’m ok. And suddenly I realized just that. I’m ok just being me. Without him constantly telling me I’m not ok. I went from being so sad and miserable to WOW, the future is bright. I can do whatever I want. So suddenly I’m excited about the infinite possibilities. And I want nothing to do with the misery he brings. The relief is profound. I love my life. Finally cheater free. I feel so blessed that I’m giddy.

    • Congratulations EPW. I’ve been reading your comments for a long time and am so happy for you. You sound mighty.
      May I lovingly suggest that you consider a new moniker. One that does not identify you in relation to him. “Infinite Possibilities” might better fit you now. Just a thought-your past made me smile today. It will be so helpful to newer chumps. Life can be better on the other side of the shitshow.

      • Wow, thanks so much Fern. Infinite Possibilities it is. I think the main reason I used Ex Pilot’s Wife was to identify with other pilot wives who might stumble in here like I did. Pilot’s are notorious cheaters like doctors and military guys. Might be their narc traits, I don’t know. Glorified bus drivers who get treated like gods. But they’re all bad and I get how hard the lifestyle is even if they aren’t cheaters. Gone all the time to fun places while you stay behind and handle the scut work they’re too important to do. But again, thank you! I’m changing it with this post. We all deserve to get to the other side. It’s truly blissful. It just takes a lot of time and pain to get here but so worth it.

        • Fern and Infinite Possibilities, I changed my moniker from Cold T-rk-y (that country name, if spelled out, frequently gets blocked on this site) to Eirene Lux, meaning peace and light.

          It was a very liberating move for me, as the previous name was linked to my life as the wife of an archaeologist (also “Gone all the time to fun places while you stay behind and handle the scut work they’re too important to do.”)

          Eirene Lux symbolizes ME… a lover of classical languages who has moved out from the shadows.

          So, Infinite Possibilities for you it is!

          • Eirene, out from the shadows. I love that. Thank you so much. I think that’s a truth for many of us. May we all find our way into the light.

    • This is encouraging that you hit Meh so quickly after 45 years with him.

      I have moments of feeling liberated but although fleeting they bring promises of a brighter future.

      I have gone NC but what I struggle with are 2 of my grown children who take their anger out on me because I am safe and have always carried that distinction even before dday.

      • EC, believe me when I say I feel your pain. I have two (adult) kids with the fuckwit pilot. They also have anger and other issues and feel safe dumping (blaming) on me. The only saving grace is that I can talk to them and we can have a two sided discussion. Thankfully they are not narcs.

        I’m trying now to suggest that they start thinking about the things that upset them with a plan or steps toward finding a solution. Impotent anger is paralyzing. Look for a goal and make a plan, then determine the steps to meet it. It can turn a negative into a positive.

        • IP,
          Thanks for this. You are lucky yours will talk openly with you. One of mine will while the other 2 will not. I do not bring the x up unless they do which they don’t.

          Unfortunately I am noticing behaviors in one of mine that resemble what I now see in the x – anger, control, self-centered…..It has been there all along but I didn’t see it for what it was until I found CN and CL. My one huge consolation is that now that I have connected the dots and, although it is disturbing, I do have ways of dealing with the behavior because of CL and CN.

          New things keep popping up. One certainly can’t claim complacency after Dday/divorce. Guess this is how I shall be spending my Golden Years. 🙂

  • It is a beautiful thing! Freedom, happiness, you name it, all the good things. I had an acquaintance tell me I looked relaxed, happy, beautiful and content with life. Then followed it up with “Do you have a boyfriend?” I could not stop laughing and replied “No, it’s just me, the boys and the cat. Life is good”. And it is. I am leaving in two weeks to fulfill another lifelong travel dream of going to London. Nothing like fulfilling your dreams that were squashed by your ex. Belief in yourself and fulfilling your dreams is where the power lies within you.

  • Meh is looming close by. Continue to enforce no contact even with children that I only parallel parent with him. I love when his family and his friends ask me what happened between us to end our 17 year marriage as he will not tell the truth of his four year affair, moved our family 800 miles to be 28 miles away from affair partner, began to divorce me behind my back 8 months after we moved but was fired as a partner from his firm. He hadn’t learned the lesson that you don’t fuck your client and charge their expenses to your company. 18 months later, once he finally got a job, immediately moved out and divorced me. I always respond, that’s his story to tell, not mine. My children and I have learned to bloom where we are planted.

    I will be there soon. I feel happier everyday and think of him and his situation less and less. I do feel for my children, but once they emancipate their relationship with her father will no longer be court-ordered and they can make their own decisions on that as I have.

    • I think looming sounds ominous! ????

      I bet it won’t feel nearly close to ominous. Cheers to your journey!

  • How about forcing him to accept offer on the house, moved 1000 miles away right after closing and have had no contact since?? I have started a completely new life and love it!!

  • Since xh married his Affair partner, I didn’t know until 2 years later, yeah, nc!, our daughter’s have zero relationship with him. He’s so creepy, he took his mother’s photo, created a fake FB profile, and friend requested my family (I imagine so he could creep and keep tabs). He did this same stunt 3 years ago.

    When sister laughingly told me this, I found I did not care at all WHAT she did about it. Last time attorneys were notified plus a threat to report to police if stalking did not stop was issued.
    But, I find that I don’t care what control tactics he’s using. Or if he is alive, for that matter.

    I almost feel bad that he is so disliked by his children that he has to lurk on relatives pages to get a glimpse, but then that’s not my issue.

  • Meh is on the horizon for me. 3 years out from D-Day, I’m in a new city, have a new job in my field where I’m doing very well, just bought a house, and have a generous separation agreement. With little kids, I see ex almost every day while we’re transitioning to a custody schedule, but I can be cordial. I see through his manipulations now, and when he shows up at MY house, trying to drag me down or suck me into his family drama, I just have him leave. At his house, I leave as soon as the kids are in bed, even if he’s following me out the door trying to talk to me. He doesn’t have hooks in me anymore. I sometimes wonder what I saw in him that was so irresistible.

    I still get triggered, but like I told my counselor, the triggers set me stumbling, not crashing. I have a bad day or two, brush myself off and keep going. I’m working through some guided meditations that help with the triggers, and looking into doing EMDR for the really stubborn stuff. I’m better at setting boundaries, and treating myself with greater compassion, which translates to treating others with greater compassion, which translates to me feeling better about who I am and what I’m modeling for my kids.

    Whatever challenges this new life holds for me, I would never, ever, EVER go back to what I had. I think back to that sad version of myself, making herself smaller and smaller and more resentful, and I know that she deserved better. She deserved to be loved and respected. I deserve to be loved and respected.

    And I’m not going to settle for less.

    • Seconding EMDR with brainspotting. Absolutely miraculous for me this past year (after seventeen years of PTSD, improving but never quite gone).

  • I recently learned that stbxh has lost yet another job. After finally paying his court ordered and garnished support on a regular basis, we will be back to the inconsistent trickle of his irresponsible nature.

    And to be honest, I’m not that worked up over it. My children deserve the finance support the court has ordered. Stbxh also has other children to support as well now. But I do all I can for them too (having primary custody of our many children and working my tail off at home and at work.)

    If he doesn’t pay the order, eventually the court consequences will kick in for him and that’ll be his lot to deal with.

    Lowering my expectations has really helped to achieve “meh!”

  • Meh sightings?
    Not yet.

    But you can bet your ass I’m gonna get there.

    36 years married.
    36 years of torment and contempt and every abuse you can name.
    5 years of Family Law.
    15 million and counting in legal fees.
    Still not settled.

    I’m really mad.

  • I feel like I’ve finally reached meh.. Moving our children and I that he never contacted out of state hours away was the best thing. I have no idea what he or his family is doing and I don’t give a rats ass either anymore. We’re living our best lives in a new house without alcohol abuse. Took 2 years to get here. Keepmovingforward is how I did it.

  • Thanks for the encouragement and the signposts to ‘meh’. I’ve seen it in pictures, but haven’t been there yet. Har har.
    You all are champions!

  • Sorry i don’t think i will ever get to Meh ! Beginning to think its an absolute impossibility

    I am 100% No contact have been since he walked out on D Day but i don’t think ill ever just sit and breath and go oh him – Meh

    • No, but I know it exists, I have faith that I will enter the land of Meh.
      The Road is much longer and filled with many more obstacles than ever imagined. After 41 years of marriage, Gollum says everything belongs to him and is fighting a settlement with all he can. Meanwhile he entered into what he calls a romantic relationship with a divorced woman 13 yrs younger . (This after going to prostitutes for the last 20 years of our marriage.) They travel , spend family time together and go church, and want everyone to accept them as a couple. Divorce is still pending, scheduled for next February. Two and a half years since filing. I have built a house and finished my move last week. The air is cleaner, I feel better and there are days when I don’t even think of this hellish divorce. No contact is the gift of peace. Thank You Chump Lady for this blog , it is a life saver.

      • I guess they forget that the church doesn’t really endorse married men dating someone besides their wife.

    • Karenb, Big hugs from me. You sound like me last summer (2 months after DDay at that time). I was stuck in the “why” phase for half a year. Why do they think I deserve this? Why, why, why?? I thought I will never gotten out of misery and see any bright days. I’ve been happily married (not sexless, lots of laughters, lots of spending time with each other) for 12 years. And then, boom, a bomb went off. I has been a horrible wife (because I love our 4-year old daughter and co-sleep with her as she’s afraid of monsters at night) and abandoned my loving husband. He emailed various girls how I mistreated him and cheated on him (with our daughter) and how he was so lonely in our marriage. I had no idea. I was still skipping happily in my lavender field under the rainbows. I did not know he was miserable with us. Until he gave me an ultimatum: choose him or our daughter (basically, he wanted me to send our 4-year old away to grandparents in Asia.) I was shocked. What kind of a father is this? Why would he be jealous of his own child? I picked me dance hard. I tried so hard to be a better wife…just to find out 2 months later that he’s been dating (with a younger version of me). Once I confronted him, he said “you make me do it.” Everything spiraled downward fast after that day. My 12-year mirage ended in 8 months. Then, 20 days after the divorce was finalized, Schmoopie moved into his brand new home (use our joint money to buy right after DDay) and help raising my daughter. They play a happy family around our town, replacing me. It was CL/CN that reminded me to let it go and use my energy to be the best version of myself.

      Letting go is the most difficult thing to do when you feel injustice. Don’t know if this helps but it put me in a perspective about them: I saw a big pile of dog poop on my driveway. It was disgusting with flies circling around, and it reminds me of my assband and schmoopie. They stink, both the turd and the fly. I don’t need to know what inside it or why it stinks, they just stink. I want to look away. I don’t want to be near it or step on it. Why hold on to it if it smears your hands? I was not a horrible person to got shit stains. I am an amazing person who didn’t know that I was holding a big shit! I did not want to be covered in it anymore. So, it’s time to wash your hand and stay away from the whole thing. This is the image to help me letting go.

      I am far from meh, but it’s been better everyday this year. I start to listen to my inner-child voice again. I start to find me again. And, I actually like “me” a lot. I forgot what she likes for a long time. I start to genuinely smile at life again. I send you my love. We will get through this together. You’ve been through a lot.

  • It has started hurting less when I came to terms with the fact that the horrible person who did this and the horrible person he continues to be- is who he really is- I was looking for glimpses of remorse for so long- I know that is never going to happen- I am fully enjoying myself- haven’t cried since really making that my state of mind about him- I blocked everything and anyone from his life from mine and just have minimal “business like” contact regarding our son. Finally even venturing to date. Life gets good and gets better- but it takes time to heal. A lot of self care!!!!

    Finally forgiving myself for trusting enough not to see what I shouldn’t have trusted in- and for the imperfection of getting thru the healing from the biggest nightmare of my life. It’s ok that I screamed, yelled, swore and wasn’t lady-like and myself at times. Trauma will do that and it’s ok- recognizing it, healing and forgiving myself for some not so stellar moments over the last 2 years… that’s healing and progress! And I’m seeing meh around the corner.

  • i’m at meh in regards to Sir Cheats-A-lot but sharing kids with a fuck wit has been hard. He’s taking my kids on a cruise in few days and i have no idea where he’s taking them or for how long. It’s STILL all about power for him.
    However, in regards to the man i used to love and was my best friend for 20+ years…I am at meh. I don’t care about him or his life. I hope one day he’ll finally reap what he’s sown but I can say with victory my life is DEFINITELY better without him in it. I completely know he sucks and is a rotten person.

    • I can’t stand sharing kids with a fuck wit. It feels like you can never quite escape. I am often amazed how he’ll try to get some dig in in a conversation about literally god knows what. It just how angry he is, angry at me because while I exist in this planet I remind him he is not the kind of person he purports to himself to be. Take it out on my why don’t you? I don’t think I’ll ever be at ‘meh’ about the way he quickly pulled her in, introduced her to my daughter and they are out and about playing happily families. It’s dark. But it’s happening. Meh a dreamland for me but dreams can come true….

  • I’m loving this thread, especially like “pass the popcorn” . When the pain subsides, we are real kick ass people!
    There are glimpses of meh for sure, I do sometimes think back to the vomiting wreck I was, I am a stronger person now so just don’t f**k with me because I won’t stand for it. I wouldn’t want my old life back, the promised land is waiting.

    • Smart Woman yes! All of this. Before achieving meh (I think I’m 97% there) I would reflect on the possibility and I believed it was truly possible to get there one day but I definitely had to get through over a year of cold chills, nausea, feeling like I was outside my body, and genuine effort to keep my family intact before I could move closer to meh . It’s remarkable how when your view fully clears and you see the manipulations for exactly what they were /are that meh really can settle in. Don’t f*%k with me I won’t stand for it: yes. Don’t want my old life back and have to wonder just what exactly was I holding on to: yes.

  • Surprisingly my ex is spoken about almost every day as my son travels between houses and is forming a relationship with him. My daughter went to college a year ago and she was the buffer for her brother in many ways. Often my son asks about family relationships or my opinion on how to deal with his dad. I think it’s healthy if I can speak without bitterness and help him have skills to deal with his dad in a proactive way.

    Both of my kids have commented on their dads need to ‘say how great his kids are and show them off’. My son recently commented about what an ass his dad was when he moved out. My daughter has also had similar observations. They both know that he holds the purse strings and that their relationship with him is about social images. But they are negotiating it.

    I’m fortunate that I am NC except for the occasional text or email and my ex pays what was worked out in mediation. It has allowed me to move forward with financial freedom. Just recently I had a first date and thought, wow there are some nice guys out there.

    There is ‘meh’. It’s a great place

  • Getting there but still have to interact on kids expenses and calendars beyond child support. She’s a lesbian, thinks she’s s victim of society, lived a lie for 25 years in our marriage before she came out, got half of everything we built and still comes back for more.

    The most constructive thing I did was rename her in my contact list to Meh. So every time she calls or texts I see Meh and immediately go to Meh state mentally before I have to respond.

    • Happier With Out Her, changing the contact name to Meh is a great idea. I have no phone contact with him, but will change his name on my email contacts.

      I feel that I’m getting closer to Meh. The Cheater I was with has not come out yet, and according to him, he will never come out. We were married 13 years. He is 40 years old and all he cares about is his looks and having sex.

      I’m six months post dday, custody battle and divorce not yet settled. He also feels that he is a victim of society. At first, I felt sorry for him and I was trying to co-parent, but then he went psycho because he can’t accept that our fake marriage is over. He doesn’t accept that he has no family to hide the real him.

      His mom and dad stopped communicating with me and the girls because I kicked him out on DDay. His dad is also a cheater and couldn’t accept that I didn’t forgive his son just like my stbxh’s mom did.

      When thoughts about my life with him starts to surface (he was a “nice and accommodating guy,” but an alcoholic) I just tell myself “the past no longer exists, the future is an illusion, I only have the present and I will make the best out of it”.

      • I changed my XW’s ID in my phone; it now reads “Womanchild (DON’T ANSWER)”.
        She’s 40, going on 23.

          • Changed mine to “…” with a picture of Gonzo with his arms around a chicken..because he literally looks like Gonzo and the OW/Wife #3…well she looks like a thick and juicy chicken… ????

        • Mine is picture of Thanos from the Avengers, since he thought he could just snap his fingers & get his evil way.

  • Today marks nine months divorced. Seventeen months since I moved out. Nineteen months since I lived with him (I was at a friend’s for two months before I moved into my own place).

    I’m at “meh” with him. I don’t care what he’s doing and don’t want to know about it; don’t want to see him or hear from him; don’t think about what he’s doing, why he did what he did, or why he is the way he is.

    I fully trust that he sucks, and that he’s not my problem anymore.

    I’m mostly over the hurt. The searing pain of being discarded I never feel anymore.

    I never feel regret for the loss of the marriage; I feel regret only for the years I lost being married to him, and for the person I might have become and the life I might have had if I hadn’t become ensnared in the first place.

    I’m not a “meh” yet about how he has gotten and continues to get away with it. My ex didn’t just conduct an emotional affair, or indulge himself in elaborate sexual fantasies with women at work he became enamored of–and would tell me about these; he lives in a closet and lives a secret life. No one else has ever been exposed to his behavior or listened to him talk about his sexual fantasies or desires; he’s told exactly three people, his emotional affair partner, me, and his sister (to whom he is unnaturally close).

    We worked together, and that he poisoned my work life in addition to my private life still angers me. Because I could divorce him, and move away from him, I could remove him from my private life–and did. It was not possible to distance myself from him at work, and because of university policy I was unable to speak the truth about my life to anyone else at the university, because he is a “protected class.” The cognitive dissonance of having to work with him, knowing his secret, watching him dupe others who know nothing of him except the hologram he projects of reasonable man and feminist ally, observing him creep on his women colleagues (that secret sexual fantasy life) and use his position to serve on committees where he would adjudicate sexual harassment and rape complaints, knowing what I know about his sexual fetish, and being forbidden to speak of it was all so intolerable that I moved up my retirement date and have just retired. My retirement date, July 31 (nine days ago), felt like the completion my divorce.
    I can only hope time will allow me to reach “meh” when it comes to my work life. It’s early days yet when it comes to that, so I’m hopeful.

    • Universities, under the guise of egalitarianism, perpetrate some of the worst of abuses that I have ever seen. Ask me how I know. I am very sorry for you Adelante. Truly.

    • “I never feel regret for the loss of the marriage; I feel regret only for the years I lost being married to him, and for the person I might have become and the life I might have had if I hadn’t become ensnared in the first place.” THIS. When my relationship finally ended, I faced the challenge of grieving the partnership head-on, knowing that I kept getting involved with the same type of person and that I had a lot of personal work to do to change my patterns. What I didn’t realize then was that there would be so many stages of letting go. I reached meh about her about 2 years out, but it took much longer to stop beating myself up and being mired in regret about wasted time.

  • Karenb6702..I think I can speak for most of us here. You WILL get there. It’s traumatic and horribly painful at first. You’re still in the early stages. You’ve made it this far. You are mighty !! Keep your eyes forward and keep doing what you’re doing. It will come. Sometimes when you least expect it.
    Hugs 🙂

  • I keep catching glimpses of Meh. I am grey rock/NC with him with the exception of child support. I have my own home underway of getting set up. I have some freedom, other than the last stages of pregnancy so a lot of restrictions that are more frustrating for no reasonable explanation.
    I did laugh when his howorker dumped him because he accused her of cheating on him. But, c’mon! That is funny!
    I look forward to the day I can just be at Meh. Until then, I’m going to keep on building my life and working on myself.

  • I’ve been at MEH with my ex-husband for many years. But now I have to work on getting there with my ex-boyfriend. He seemed so wonderful, but he was doing skeezy things online (had an active account, would “heart” and “like” photos of beautiful women we both know on Facebook, and leave comments telling them how beautiful they are). The old me would have justified, the new me trusted that he sucked and cut him loose after just a 2 month relationship.

  • Maybe I need a new definition. I can see very clearly that he sucks and he will suck with whomever he is with, he has gotten much worse since he blew up his life and clearly I was not the source of that poor wittle man child’s twubbles. Our adult daughters are NC with him and he continues to try to drag them into arguments and demand that they just get over it and has been incredibly mean when they hold their boundaries. In his mind he is blameless for abandoning his 28-year marriage by e-mail for a chick half our age. To watch him spin his shit and blame his daughters for the state of their relationship is simply reinforcing what I already know. He sucks.

    So maybe I am at meh? Not sure. I really hate him and wish him dead. I want to see him cry over not having access to future grandbabies and not knowing about his daughters’ weddings until after the fact (they cut off Switzerland and flying monkey family members too). I want his 26YO Schmoopie to cheat on him. I want them to be miserable and I want him to have nightmares and anxiety about his stupid, stupid choices. I suspect all of this will happen. He deserves it. I hope he only hears about events in our daughters’ lives by e-mail, the same medium he used to ditch me out of the blue.

    Since I am not all “whatevs” with his state I guess I am not at meh. And for myself, I am lonely and wish I had a partner. I wanted to enjoy early retirement but went back to a lower stress job to hopefully remain active and meet someone. I feel so much that I will not be all OK until my life moves solidly in a direction that delights me. Maybe I am defining it wrong. This is where I am–better without him, but still feeling crushed by what he did to all of us.

    • His 26 YO skank will eventually dump his old ass. Pretty much a given. Before she dumps his ass they will be miserable. Also a given. Whether it happens in 6 months or 6 years, who knows? Let’s hope it lasts years and schmoopie will kick herself for “wasting” her 20’s. Will he regret his stupid choices? Maybe. More than likely he’ll turn himself into a victim and be too consumed with his victimhood to realize he is the cause of his misery. Very rare for his type to honestly self reflect. I predict you will be at meh way before they break up but for now you can bank on (and take comfort) their relationship not ending well.

  • Every morning having a peaceful cup of tea feels like MEH to me.
    No contact and having my own money and work I love, seals the deal. My time to do it my way.
    I love those feelings. They were hard won after MIGHTY struggles.
    Complete MEH would mean the end of nightmares where I am still married to him. (6 years on)

  • I’m three years out from another Dday with a different schmoopie although I think he’d been trying to land ho’s for years, I’m two years divorced. Although I knew he was high maintenance and needy, I didn’t realize he was a narc until I was attempting to untangle the skein.

    If you are a newbie, my best advice is to tell you this is gonna suck for a while. Start on the homepage of Chump Lady and scroll to the bottom. These are the primers to get you in the right mindset so you know the terminology like kibbles, cake, and pick me dancing, shit sandwich, the RIC. Realize it takes time and distance to really see the big picture of a cheater and a chump. We are going to tell you to disengage and go no contact. No contact is not the 180. No contact is for you and it means to not all stop communication with a fuckwit but also to stop snooping or listening to well intentioned folks trying to give you updates.

    The twu wuv schmoopies aren’t some soulmates that just happened to cross paths, you are not the reason they cheated but the cheater, the schmoopie, and other ignorant to infidelity folk may believe you are the reason. Your work is to learn your worth and find your mighty to leave a cheater and gain a life. You must believe you are not the reason!

    They cheated because they had the opportunity and picked themselves over their spouse, their honest life of children/pets/immediate and extended family. Affairs and schmoopes are about fantasy and escapism. Whatever mechanisms inside of themselves to justify and rationalize sneaking around or running off is within them, like a defect or ticking time bomb. It doesn’t matter whether it’s with you or with schmoopie or some perfect supermodel. This is who they are and they are willing to pick themselves over anyone and everyone else.

    That’s a life I didn’t want any part of anymore. From there you learn to trust that they suck and start to detach. The next layer for me was the shit sandwich of cheater, his young schmoopie, and them interacting with my kids and trying to replace me. My kids trust that they both suck now. They play the game so he continues to help them some financially but they are both learning it’s not worth it. I really didn’t do much but continue to be the sane parent.

    Be gentle on yourself, realize you are going through the stages of grief and you just can’t fast track it. It’s like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly–a metamorphosis. Practice gratitude for the good things, no matter how small, you experience and along the way you’ll find joy again. I looked up one day and realized – I’m still me! As goofy or cheesy as that sounds, I realized the cheater nor marriage defined who I am as a person down to my soul. I am me, an imperfect being but generally easy going and happy with life. I don’t need a partner to boost me into a real person. My kids, family, friends, pets love me for me. It doesn’t matter what cheater or his ilk think of me. They are no longer part of me or my life.

    Meh is a state of being okay with yourself and not caring what cheater and schmoopie are doing. I will always have a scar there where a long marriage and intact family should be. But I am enough now.

    • Great advice! One more thing I’d like to add is don’t worry about people who tell you to ‘Get over it’. You’ll get over it on your schedule, not theirs. And if it takes you 5 years, then so be it. But there is a time that you will reach when you tell yourself, ‘Get over it’. Be kind to yourself until that day comes.

  • Dancing. I love dancing. It will come as no surprise then that the ex spoiled dances by being a fuckwit. Now I dance whenever I want to with the greatest joy. Dance is another language for me and it is immensely healing.

    • I also love dancing. I danced every day during discard and I joined a bellydance group (our elderly teacher is gentle, elegant and graceful, it’s not vulgar stuff! Lots of fun). Dancing is like a ritual way to rid myself of bad juju. But I never got to dance with him in 23 years of marriage. When he wanted to reconcile, one of my two demands was that he dance with me. He never even tried, not even a few twirls in the kitchen to the radio. It would have been so easy – wouldn’t have changed the fact if his bad character, but it would have been so easy!!

  • I’m there and loving it. I have blocked him and his family and friends from all social media, I did google searches on our names together and took steps to have any pages where my name was linked to his removed. (I think that was the final step for me to get to meh) Also, with the divorce I took my maiden name back. I wanted zero ties to him. I just wish my child didn’t have to have his name. Parallel parenting is the only way to go with him as he is unable to co-parent. I am as no contact as 1 can get when children are involved. Especially young children.
    He’s got a live in GF now and my little one wants nothing to do with either of them however, she is smart enough to know she has no choice and she just makes the best of it. Which is her pretty much just sitting in front of a TV or Ipad once she is there.
    He will reap what he has sown when she is old enough to decide who she wants to be with. Til then, I’m sitting back, eating my popcorn and enjoying the show as I watch him trying to hook this girl and putting on his fake manipulative charming self.

    I am loving though that he has a GF.. she keeps him busy enough where he’s stopped irritating me about stupid little things about our little one.
    Meh will come believe me!
    Don’t get me wrong.. I still get mad internally when he shows up driving a new vehicle that I know is out of his price range and refuses to help pay for any of his childs activities. But like I said, my little one will learn one day that he puts himself first.. ALWAYS.

  • 1.5 yrs from divorce and feeling closer to Meh everyday. Million times happier.

    I too stumble on occasion, but I rebound rt away.
    I’m working on trusting that she sucks, but I don’t totally believe it yet.

    I do trust that I am mighty. That has been my superpower.

    My understanding of Meh evolves as I do; this ordeal has forced me to grow, to see others with a better understanding of myself and what healthy relationships really are.

    If today’s post is to inspire the newbies I will share that its been helpful to let my emotions do their thing. Its been helpful to trust myself, to come here, to lean on friends. Its a journey none of us wanted, but if we let it – a powerful transformation to being a better human. You will love yourself better on the other side. You’ll be proud of yourself. You’ll feel empowered to love others stronger. You are not alone. And it’ll all be ok.

    • This is beautiful. Truly lovely, uplifting, and inspiring. Thank you for sharing from your heart, Tall One.

  • – I wake up laughing again.
    – Decisions are about people the I care about and myself, not the x.
    – Absolute independence feels awesome instead of frightening again.
    – So many daily things make me nod to appreciation because I had serious doubts that life could actually feel good again. And it does!
    – I still second guess myself but not in the way of wondering if x would approve or not. I second guess myself for me, in order to keep improving.
    – Checking in here isn’t about me trying to cope with life without x any longer, but about sharing and supporting in any useful ways that I can. This site was so useful in my healing and it feels good to pay it back. Grateful to CL/CN!

    Meh for all! If you’re still feeling low, hang in there because meh will show up. For me it was like finding the spots of sun while coming out of a dense forest. Little patches of meh, then darkness but knowing that meh was there. Trusting that meh was there. Then more and more sun/meh until the forest darkness was well behind me. Now, I see it clearly from a comfortable distance and appreciate all that it taught me. Keep the faith that you will find peace and “meh”.

  • Meh, is a roller coaster especially when you have children with fuckwit. Some days I am fucking fan-tastic. Then he does something or says something (email or text – we have kids must keep communication to written only, no verbal) stupid which just gets me screaming inside. However, I no longer look at him thinking he has a great life. He is living with schmoopie. They are in the process of building a $500k (at least) home. Who wants that high of a mortgage at age 50? Thanks to my quick thinking at the divorce negotiations he is paying alimony until my youngest turns 18…can we say my house will be paid off soon!!!! Also schmoopie has young kids that he will have to help raise. They haven’t hit puberty yet. We all know that is not always a pleasant time. Add on the fact that he is not their dad. My oldest is away at college and the youngest is a junior in high school with a busy schedule. There is so much more time for me now….MEH!!!! I am exercising, taking great care of myself, my career is going well, friends and family are amazing and my house is peaceful and enjoyable.

  • I’m now 6 years and 2 months post-D-day, and I am still nowhere close to meh. I haven’t wanted him at all since D-day, I just hate his guts with a deep and abiding passion. Doesn’t help that he has repeatedly sued me for custody, this destroying my business, my credit, my kids’ schools…almost drove me to homelessness. I’m only a few months out from the most recent settlement.

    But today, for the first time EVER, I can glimpse true meh, and I wanted to share why. It’s because finally, FINALLY, for the first time since I met him, I’m following my dreams and moving toward the life I truly want. It took me 6 years to even figure out what I want, let alone start to move toward it, but this month I’m starting nursing school, and now, finally, for the first time ever, I’m starting to be able to imagine a glimpse of a life he can’t destroy.

    • Lisa, sooo awesome!! I went back to school after D-day to become a nurse too! You are so right! It’s something he or no one else can take away from you. 🙂 Congrats and keep us posted about how school is going. 🙂

  • When I first found this blog and read about these insane concepts of No Contact and Meh, I truly believed that they were the names of unicorns and truly didn’t exist.

    No contact with your ex, even though you have two school age children – not possible.

    Not giving a flying f@#$ about the ex, his issues, untangling the skein, his relationship with his sons, etc. – no way that would ever happen.

    For the newbies – believe in Chump Lady and Chump Nation for I reached MEH twice.

    I filed for divorce in December of 2010. Moved with my two kids into my mom’s house on my 47th birthday after losing the house to foreclosure, 6 days after I had meniscus surgery.

    For the next 7 years, I battled with my ex over everything, custody, child support, his temper tantrums, his lies, his verbal, emotional and mental abuse – not only towards me but our sons as well. Calling the police to the house to get him removed from the house and property. The endless phone calls and texts which were so hard to ignore because he would drag me into horrible conversations. Did I mention he’s a psychopathic narcissist as diagnosed by my therapist. The worst she has seen in her thirty years of practice.

    Somehow I persevered. With the help of my circle of friends who were always there for me, Chump Lady and Chump Nation – which I read daily and plenty of sessions with my therapist, I learned the tools I needed to get through it all. It was NOT EASY.

    I learned how to become the sane parent. This is key if you have children. At first I was angry at how poorly he treated the kids, using them as pawns, berating them, ignoring them, etc. I was told to let it go, let HIM make HIS relationship with the kids. Make sure that I am the sane parent, the one they can trust, the one that they can depend on, the one that is always there for them through everything. And also I never talked down about their dad in front of them. I could go on for hours to my friends, but never to the kids.

    Last month my youngest was emancipated (in PA when you turn 18 your child support stops). A week after his birthday he told me he no longer wanted anything to do with his dad. Nothing. My 21 year old said the same. They both were fed up with his lies both past and present, and lack of interest in them only when he needed something.

    So MEH #1 happened when I walked out of the courtroom on July 5th 2017 after seven years of battling with the ex to sign the divorce papers. Once that was completed, I went to the second floor in the courthouse and immediately filed to regain my maiden name.

    Meh #2 happened last month when the kids realized what type of person their dad truly is. I was proud that they had the guts to stand up to him. I know that I taught them well, even though it took years for me to gain the strength to do it.

    I know this is winded, but some of us get to Meh later than others and its ok. Strive to do what is best for yourself and your children, have patience and breathe.

  • I know I’m at Meh. But it was something that just gradually grew over several years. I was so shattered during the first two years of being separated. I think my pain was foremost in my mind. Then I had a couple of years of just being angry. But then, things began to shift and over further years, I just thought less and less about XH. Now, 8 years out, I rarely ever think of him and if we have to cross paths at a family event, I feel nothing. It’s like he is a stranger. For me, it was a process and not an instant event. I will repeat what many have said – no contact was key.

    • Congratulations Lisa! In life it truly comes down to helping others. I am a nurse and on my worst day at least I know I made a difference in someone else’s life. You have been through hell but your rewards will be great I promise. Welcome to the sisterhood- nursing is amazing! He didn’t destroy you…. remember you are mighty…. he sucks!

  • 2 years separated and 3 years divorced and I know I’m at MEH! It feels awesome and I’m having fun doing whatever I please whenever I want. My X was a huge music fiend — especially musicals. I like them but have to admit that I closed my eyes during WICKED on B’way and seats directly behind the conductor of the Met Opera didn’t do anything for me. HOWEVER, a few weeks ago I learned Moulin Rouge was still in previews on Bway. I knew it was a favorite of my two daughters (ages 26 and 27). The movie was not my favorite but I thought “let’s share the experience” and bought the tickets. Something in the musical that night awakened my music taste buds again! I haven’t listened to music or radio in 5 years and after that spectacular show I haven’t stopped listening and singing. It’s been wonderful and I’m planning to see it again with a friend. I feel like a kid again. I’m driving my girls crazy and enjoying every second of it. No longer having to answer to anyone has been life changing!

    • Mom9193 – That’s awesome! Good for you! 🙂 I can imagine what that must feel like, and I want to feel it too. In time…*fingers crossed*

  • These posts are encouraging!

    We were together 17 years, 12 married. My family loved her. We raised a daughter together, had a home, dogs, two cars, a boat. She was a handful (my ex, not the boat), but I loved her dearly and was devoted. We had a life, a future…until we didn’t.

    I’m 18 mos out from the initial discard (she said “I don’t love you anymore. I want to be single. I want a divorce”), and 15 mos out from official d-day (I wasn’t angry at the time, just devastated, so I acquiesced to her settlement demands, we filed and it was over in 90 days). Since then, I’ve maintained very limited contact, evidenced only by her occasional text/call regarding our daughter (in college) to which I respond succinctly and without emotion. The passage of time has helped in my healing process, but 17 years of programming is hard to overwrite, and from complete devastation it is hard to rebuild. In the end, she treated me very poorly, and yet I suspect I’ll always love her to some degree. But we are over; I know that, so I am ready to be indifferent, to fully disengage, to reach “Meh”. I’m 52. People tell me to date, to put myself out there, but I’m not interested. Hopefully, that will change. I stick to my routines; go to work, pay bills, eat better, exercise, socialize with family & friends, maintain my home and two dogs, and trust that the healing hand of time will take care of the rest.

    I haven’t reached “Meh” yet; in fact, I don’t see it on the horizon, but a gentle breeze is building, carrying with it a faint promise of contentment, peace and happiness. I want that, so I’m guardedly optimistic. Perhaps a better life awaits me in another year or two. *fingers crossed*

    • I say, ‘Don’t date. Don’t put yourself out there.’ I was told the same, but I felt that I would have ‘settled’ had I done so. I was so lonely that I would have put someone else’s needs before my own yet again…, and I probably would have found myself in similar circumstances. My advice is to take your time and learn why you allowed such a fuckwit into your life in the first place. Find out why you didn’t value yourself enough that you allowed someone to abuse you. After you figure that out, take the time to get to know yourself, the things you like (and dislike), and the things you’re willing to put up with and what you won’t… ever again.

      • Thanks, AC. I agree. In hindsight, I think it all comes down to establishing boundaries and enforcing them. Also, I need to be completely over my XW, which I’m not yet.

        In full disclosure, I tried to go on a date several months ago, but it was a bust – I wasn’t ready. Fortunately, we talked about it, she understood and we’re friends. And I won’t wade back into that pool until 1) I’ve achieved “Meh”, and 2) I’m happy with myself, content with solitude and willing to enforce boundaries.

        • That’s very good advice that you’ve been given CCC and also spot on what you wrote too.

          Similar position. I’m also 52. Couple of (young) kids. Though I reckon it sounds like I’m closer to Meh as D-Day for me was 2 years ago exactly next week. I haven’t even bothered trying to date, mostly because I hampered myself in an in-house-separation (don’t do it fellow chumps!). I got my own place and moved out just 4 days ago but want to get used to being on my own again too.

          What I can state is that one guy I know, after his own D-Day, reconnected with an old GF and ended up marrying her not long after the divorce, but from what I hear that wasn’t the best choice. Shall we say “from the frying pan into the fire” 😉 So yeah I reckon the best is to wait and not rush this too quickly.

  • On Tuesday it will be exactly 10 years since the final separation from the ex. It has been more than 8 years since the divorce was final, and I am at the promised land of Meh. Total Meh. I thought I was here before, but the ex always did something to pull me away. He stopped paying his child support about a year and a half before it ended and I had to take him to court over that. So he countersued claiming that living with my adult son was “cohabitating” and violated the terms of our divorce so he could stop alimony. A couple of years ago at Christmas he decided to come to my house and give me and the adult children letters. That time I read the first two sentences and quit. Because he was blaming me for the divorce. We’re talking about a man who cheated, chose to leave the first time we separated, and deliberately treated me like dirt for the last few years of our marriage. (Well, he treated me badly for most of the 25-year marriage, but the last 5 years were worse)

    I know that he sucks. I know that he cheats on wife #2. She is not the schmoopie, but whatever. I think he has NPD, but there is not a diagnosis. Our marriage counselor told me that he suspects a personality disorder. I have been total no contact since the youngest graduated from high school. No contact is the path to meh. The last I heard 3 of the 5 children were no contact as well. The youngest was getting occasional texts from the sperm donor. I don’t know if that has continued. I don’t ask. One of the children is no contact with me. She figured out that I’m not going to let her use me any more.

    Sadly, the dirty little secret of having children with a disordered individual is that the children may end up disordered as well. I don’t know if it’s genetic or from exposure to her father’s emotional abuse. Yes it makes me sad, but there is nothing I can do about it. She is married and making her own life far from here.

    Meh is a beautiful place full of flowers and rainbows. It also has spilled coffee and broken appliances, but that is normal life. Most importantly Meh does NOT have cheaters and abusers. It’s good.

    • Sadly, it’s true. Having children with the disordered may have resulted in one of them being disordered as well. One of my sons is definitely behaving somewhat along the same lines as his ‘entitled’ dad. I can only pray that he figures life out before he has kids with one woman and then dumps her for another. I found myself trying to please that son in order to be in his sphere. But I found myself falling right back into the same habits with my son (pleading, placating, letting him treat me shabbily, etc.) that I did with my ex just so I could get him to visit me. I had to come to the realization that not everything is learned behavior. Some things are just inherent and in order to save my sanity…, yet again…, I had to let that son go as well. I pray for him, but he’s in God’s hands.

      • This is heartbreaking, Amazon Chump and one of my worst fears with my only son. I will keep you in my prayers.

          • I’m sorry for all that are dealing with children that treat the sane parent like shit. I am 14 months out from the discard. We have 4 kids (20, 17, 10, & 7). I’m not sure what my STBXW has been telling our kids but the two oldest want nothing to do with me. I make sure to send them messages everyday letting them know that I love them. I get no response from either. All 4 kids know what their mother has done and it’s not hard to figure out since she moved asshole face and his 4 boys in as soon as I moved out. My 17 year old continues to tell me I’m the one that destroyed the family and making the kids suffer because I filed for divorce. I’m feeling that I’m most likely going to go no contact for a while with the older two.
            On the plus side with my 10 & 7 year old I told my STBXW that they wanted to live with me. I’m guessing they’re getting sick of having 4 new kids in the house. So she asked them in front of me if they wanted to live with dad and they both said yes. It made me smile inside even with what’s going on with the older two. I’m just going to keep being the best dad possible. Advice is always welcome.

            • The only advice I can give is to remain strong steady and consistent . Keep loving as you have and please know that eventually a light will go on with your older ones and the little ones will grow up seeing your strength and love

      • I small incident today but one that totally backs up your learned behaviour. My daughter was texting me. I was asking her if she wanted to do something in a few days in the holiday in London I had planned. The answer I got was ‘We’ll see’. Nearly sent me into a rage. This is exactly what ex would say meaning (I think) no or just won’t give you a straight answer. So I said well I would need to book tickets so I’d need to know if you would like to go or not beforehand. I got ‘You can decide I would not really want to go’. To which I said, ‘So you mean no then? Finally I get a straight answer. Yes. This is a complete mirror of my ex’s behaviour, you don’t get a straight answer but perhaps you are supposed to realise that it means I don’t want to and it’s always left for you to decide and then guess what, be hated apparently for making every decision. It is literally mindfuckery. Just her using this made me realised how like her dad she is and how the way she treats me is a mirror of how he did and somehow I have to get that to stop, without making her feel bad or being ‘angry mum’. Scares the crap of me how this all pans out in future. But I just hate that passive aggressive non committal behaviour. I don’t want it in my house now he’s gone. Ugh splitting up with children is horrendous (I think)

        • Dodders,

          I just had a similar incident under my roof. Like you I do not want to overreact to a behavior that reminds me of the x. Stimulus response…..

          Several things came to my mind in thinking this over:

          1 – My son is young/immature so his response is within the ‘normal’ range of a young adult dealing with a parent during the years of launching onto his own – he is in his late 20’s.

          2 – The x was immature. He is 62 years old. No excuse for his behavior.

          3 – Because of CL and CN I now see the behavior clearly whereas before Dday – I was in the FOG and all was a blur.

          4- I now have options.

          5- I can detach – a wonderful way of responding espoused in Al-anon which boils down to not giving your power away and is as simple as not responding in the moment to something that triggers me.

          6- When I detach I am reminded that the letters alone stand for D – don’t; E – even; T-think of;
          C-changing; H-him/her.

          Hopefully our young adults do grow up and mature into clear thinking adults someday. Until then, I am right there with you dealing with 3 young adults who were all slammed/blind sighted by the TFC’s behavior. Not easy finding out your father is a slut and has been your entire life…..

  • I’m getting there. He’s been living with his AP Since the for sale sign went up on our lawn. But kept his own place for when the kids visited. He’s now permanently moving in with her and my only response to that was “the kids need a proper place to sleep other than that, I don’t care”
    And I didn’t. And I don’t. He did the same thing with me when we met. It’s like watching my life unfold so I’d imagine this chick is in for the same ride I had 😉 all the best!

  • I think I am getting there. I have been able to navigate some necessary contacts without being spun around in a circle and vomiting angry texts in response to his aggressive indifference. I, too, thought meh was like fairy dust and unicorns when I first came to this page. Then I had a period where I would post things here and get some responses that made me feel judged–even here in Chump Nation. I think there is a point where some of us cling to our angry obsession and aren’t ready for someone to say “trust that he sucks” or “one word responses” and “don’t engage” etc. I was starting to feel that way and realized…wait am I about to reject advice from my fellow chumps because I want to remain in my tormented anger???? Am I repainting someone’s encouragement to ‘get to meh’ as judgement for not being there yet? Am I afraid to go to ‘meh’ for fear of being like him-because I know that he was indifferent to me and that is what hurt so much? Am I clinging to my anger and hurt as some sort of badge? Well….I think I am past that stage now. Not quite to meh, but understanding it exists and that people aren’t telling me to GO THERE; they are inviting me to JOIN THEM there. I’m coming…

  • I believe I am at Meh. I’m 4.5 years post divorce and I really don’t care about the dick anymore. He married the OW almost 2 years ago. One of my sons was so worried about me when he told me, but though I had to stop and think about what I was feeling at that moment, I realized that I just didn’t care. If anything, I felt relief. I thought to myself, ‘Now let her see EXACTLY what she coveted so long to attain. Let’s see just how much she loves him now.’ Since then there were just a couple of relapses as I thought, ‘Now he’ll be happy’, but as I said, just a couple. Now, whether he’s happy or not, I just don’t care. Over and Over CL says, ‘Is it acceptable to you?’ And that’s what it boiled down to for me in reaching Meh. Whatever he is or isn’t doing with his skank is no longer an issue. Whether he is or isn’t happy with his skank is no longer an issue. What is and always will be at issue is that his antics were not acceptable to me anymore. I finally love myself enough to realize that I will never allow anyone to mistreat me ever again. I finally realize that I deserve better. I am finally at Meh.

  • Happy Friday! I am mostly at meh. I have created a new life that involved getting out of my family home, buying a new condo on a Lake, making new friends and retiring from work. I’m 2 and a half years out, I divorced within 8 months. I see him occasionally when he shows up at are grand children’s events. The last interaction I had with him, he called me a name cuz i wouldn’t pay a bill in his name, he was very arrogant which I laughed at – made him really mad. that trick wirks – laugh out loud at them – they hate it. I have finally solidified my boundaries with him. My biggest sadness is my sons are still upset and don’t have a relationship with him. It still makes them feel bad. I can’t do anything about that. my salvation was to work on myself, my body and just feeling good about who I am and doing nice things for myself and and really taking my my life bavk. its been a long climb with many switchbacks and the alpine meadow is beautiful.

  • Enjoying my own playlists here! Before, Douche would criticize and switch it to 70s music. Douche took our daughter to dinner with OW almost immediately after divorce was final. He married OW a couple months later. Invited daughter and her date to big wedding party. Daughter went, but she knows the facts and is disgusted. He keeps trying to get daughter to play happy family with them. Gives her the silent treatment when she does not want to play along. He is trying to f*ck with daughter’s head the way he f*cked with mine. Who says that the spouse is the only one who suffers from the abuse. I am happily working my way to meh but it is much harder for me to watch daughter trying to navigate.

  • Mehs-ville has been amazing!
    It does exist! It took atleast a good 6 years total but now my kid can mention the OW/turned wife, and not a twinge of anger, resentment or jealousy, sparks in me.
    Wow, cool, bummer, now rolls off my tongue. The times we have to do the kid switch face to face, I rejoice that I no longer have to put up with that. I’m doing what I love and living my life with how I deem as successful, without constant criticism or someone looking over my shoulder anticipating my mistakes. That lasts about 30 seconds and then I move on with my life. I am entirely blessed with good friends and family. I rebuilt a very comfortable life for myself, and even though life still has ups and downs, especially when it comes to bodily work-related injuries or miscommunications, I have the best help, love and support. I had no interest in dating or hooking up with anyone for atleast 3 years, and turned down many potential dates afterward that showed red and amber flags. I finally ended up with a long time friend I initially had no romantic interest in or attraction to, but it has blossomed into one of the most secure, loving and reciprical relationships I’ve ever been in and the bedroom chemistry tops all, because of that. Good people make the effort and their actions speak for themselves.
    I feel that waiting and rebuilding my self worth was entirely worth it, as I eat better, I exercise, and I’ve learned how to manage my stress better. I engage in creative activities and I work hard. I also understand more about myself and my boundaries, whereas before I was very young, naive and went along with most everything. I also feel like I can be a better parent without the ex constantly undermining me.
    Sometimes I hear about the OWife, not being very nice to my son’s dad; and I even got a glimpse at the dynamic of their relationship, when he sent my kid home with his burner phone. It was entirely satisfying to see the same bullshit play out…to see he was the same self absorbed uninvested asshole and she turned into Bridezilla. Trust that they still suck with the new partner and that their relationship sucks as well. This karma bus is slow and long, most of which I probably won’t witness (thank goodness)-one better than any revenge I could have wanted to be responsible for exacting upon them. Sadly no evidence of other ow’s, but I’m sure he’s a bit more careful now, as she seems to have him on a tight leash; or maybe it’s because they now love Jesus and are actually faithful to eachother, (sense my sarcasm?)
    Either way, ain’t nobody got time for that!
    Move on, Get a Life, Live on!

  • That alpine meadow really is beautiful, thrive. Thanks for that imagery.

    Almost seven years divorced now and that meadow is where I’m finally sitting. (It takes as long as it takes.) In my mind, I’m on my grown daughter’s Blues Clues picnic blanket, surrounded by all the deliciousness that the ex disliked. During the marriage, it wasn’t enough for him to dislike it. He would make it a point to ruin my enjoyment of it, too. Because he thrives on power.

    He has no power anymore in my life. I’ve even stopped looking at his social media pages because Chump Lady thumped me with that 2×4. But also because I realized his social media pages are dead boring. All surface dazzle. No depth. He doesn’t do it for me.

    At best he’s like watching someone who does this one trick. Maybe it’s cool the first three times. But when you check in for the 40th time and go, “You’re still doing that one trick?” It’s your signal to move on. You are wasting your precious time.

    Last week I felt a shift in how I thought about him. It looked like some version of…forgiveness? Turns out it wasn’t. It’s Meh. Full acceptance. I don’t hate him. I don’t love him. I don’t really even like him. And that’s totally okay.

    Give it time. As long as it takes.

    • Yep. As long as it takes. Congratulations on reaching Meh! Whenever I think of my ex, it’s some version of pity. Pity that he will never know what it’s like to love others for who they are, not for what he can get out of them. But the pity doesn’t last long. It’s just who he is and he’s not my problem anymore.

  • Mmmmm. It does happen. I spent four years on the roller coaster, took my time to fray the ties, save money, find myself and yes, tried to rebuild and repair the fantasy. One morning while driving to work, I started laughing out loud at something on the radio. Oh. My. God! I was so thrilled that I could do that, I started singing along with the song on the radio. Oh. My. God! Again! People ask if he’s with someone now and I say, don’t know, don’t care. And I’m no longer surprised that I truly mean that. I’m off anti-depressants. I’m reading again, joined a book club. Meet with friends. Do volunteer work with the local dog rescue. Buying a house. Gardening. Able to eat, vomiting is a thing if the past.

    No eggshells, no dead shark eyes. No need to out FBI the FBI regarding his activities. Nope, don’t hate him, don’t love him. Much too much effort. He can go off and have a great life. I don’t care !!!

    I never, ever thought it would come to this. I knew I couldn’t continue to live like that – but I thought that meant I wouldn’t live, that I would continue to be envious of the roadkill on my way to work. But it does come. And I didn’t do it myself. I had a kickass therapist, long-time friends, great in-laws who wouldn’t let me go, the snark from CL/CN. And the incredible friends from here who made my life immeasurably better (and you all know who you are!).

    To the newbies, hang in there! With no contact or rocking gray rock – the biggest helps. Ignore them as much as possible, pay attention to what’s going on here. And we’ll have a block party to celebrate your arrival in the meh neighborhood.

  • I wonder if I might be as close to meh as is possible considering. Serial cheater was also a serial rapist/sexual assaulter/statutory rapist who sexually assaulted not only me, but two of my close friends and several others that I know about. I don’t know if my anger about all of that will ever go away.

    • Wow. I’m sorry for what you’ve gone through. You can REALLY be grateful that he’s not your problem anymore.

    • Marissa, i’m So sorry you and your friends had to go through that. I hope you have excellent therapy and lots of love and support around you. And I hope that fucker is in jail, or dead.

      One day perhaps these terrible things you experienced can be a healed over scar. Still there, but no longer so painful. And your righteous anger will be a tool that comes to your hand only when you need it.

      • Thank you for the kind, supportive words. Sadly, all of serial cheater’s victims are too scared to come forward to the police, myself included, because serial cheater liked to pick people who had experienced so much oppression and violence in their lives that they feel completely powerless with regards to the law and our rights. All three of us were innocent victims of police violence separately when we were children so coming forward to the police isn’t really in the realm of possibility for any of us. I’m sure serial cheater chose victims “wisely” in that respect. Plus we all know how the law tends to react towards sexual assault victims…

        That said, I have had a good deal of therapy, my other two friends at least have a support network. I don’t know about serial cheater’s other victims though.

        I mean I did end up filing a police report when serial cheater was stalking me last year, so…

  • I don’t care what he does anymore. By which I mean, I *find out* but even the ridiculous or negligent stuff with the kids… doesn’t rile me. I help them learn problem solving skills for him. I don’t try to repair the harm on his behalf. I teach them how things are at my house.

    He doesn’t cuddle my sweet boys. Here they get tons. My younger expressed how much he loves cuddles, but I am the only one who cuddles him. I tried to problem solve that with him, but he said, “It’s okay mommy, that’s just who he is.” Kid is 7.

    My therapist says they only need one secure attachment. It’s his loss. His huge, unfixable loss. My kids are loved.

    It was annoying and sad for my boys. But. For me? No triggers, no riling, no real anger. Sadness for my boys.

    To me? This is meh. These things used to trigger me all the way to hell and back. Now I told him, “I’m sorry, hun, I can’t fix things with you and your dad. You’ll need to advocate for yourself.” And he said, “Thank mom.”


    Meh 🙂

  • As of a couple of weeks ago, I’m 5 years post D-Day. The ex’s shenanigans, attempts to get my attention, and clueless boyfriend, are just funny now, in a sad, pitying way. It’s not that I “accept” what she did to me, or all the hurt she caused to our children and me, or that she’s basically a bad human being, but that I don’t spend nights awake tore up over it.
    My advice to anyone here who is still not there yet is probably the opposite of what you’d think: take your time in getting there. You should DEFINITELY follow the steps here to get on the road to Meh — no contact, stop trying to untangle the skein, kick the bums out, etc. — but allow yourself to heal in your own time. It will take your mind a long time to get over this, especially if you’re a good, loving person.
    Ahh… let me tell you, Meh is a wonderful place.

  • Wonderful blog.
    I am almost 5 years from my DDay and much better for having read the Chump Lady book a year into my drama/trauma. Am not very technical and was suffering from PTSD back then so I did not explore this until now. As a counselor, I did recommend this blog to many and they benefited greatly. I love the sense of power and creative language you all use. I laughed out loud many times reading the book year ago and did the same today. I think MEh takes at least 4-5 years unless your marriage was short and you had no children.
    Therapy, good friends, Writing No Send letters to ex, Then writing to God, and EXERCISE/Yoga were essential tools for me.

    • Ahahaha! Well based on your comments, I probably have a lot further to go than I thought (below). Oh well, I’ve got snacks and water, so I’m ready to walk this road a while!

    • Totally agree with Marlene about yoga. A really good, free, gently taught online resource: Yoga with Adriene. She has a YouTube channel.

  • I’m cautiously optimistic that Full Meh is just around the corner. His attempts to appear happy and thriving seem boring to me, and I’ve rarely seen him this summer, so I don’t often have occasion to think about him. Contact for dear sons birthday was minimal—except for a peek at what he wrote in the birthday card (my mistake, it was idiotic, and I did react to that). Not sure how I’d react to a more direct appeal or confrontation from X, but there’s a good chance I’m getting to the point where I’d not react at all. Crossing fingers for a great fall and winter!

  • Yup, I’m there. D-Day was ten years ago. Three years of false reconciliation, and a lot of pain was where I started. Then I started to accept that he was not the man I thought I was, and I needed to get free. I tapped into strength that I didn’t feel like I technically had (fake it ’til you make it), and got the house sold, and moved into my own apartment, away from him, his families, and mutual friends. That’s where my life started to come together. I took writing classes, meditation classes, made new friends, and felt — dare I say it — happy. I went to Italy with my sister. Life was good.

    Divorced a little more than a year after moving out. I was free! Started online dating a few months later, met my current boyfriend fairly quickly. It’s amazing to be in love with someone who actually deigns to return the favor. Moved in with him two years ago. My life hums on happily.

    It’s funny: I remember desperately trying to get to happiness when I was still mired in the marriage with my ex. The thing about meh is that it takes no effort, pretty much by definition. My ex doesn’t have the ability to cause me pain now, because he does not factor in my current life at all. If someone told me that he died, I think I would feel neither pain nor joy. It would be like hearing about the death of some childhood neighbor with whom I had a polite, distant rapport.

  • There is a spectrum.

    Let’s just call IT the Spectrum OF WHAT?
    Plenty of disorders are on a Spectrum.
    But none listed in DSM- 5. Concerning the total destruction of the Soul by SO. Or body. Or the children or the dogs.

    I had a better chance with Bundy.

    ONS as opposed to 15 year secret affair.
    What should we call that?
    Financial, sexual, emotional, physical abuse.
    Let’s throw in the grooming of the children. That starts long before the atom bomb is dropped straight through the marital home.

    Many times- Chumpie people say to themselves….
    Compared to Z family- hey- not so bad.
    Of course – if your entire family was wiped out in the latest shooting- cheater is NOT SO Bad. Right?



  • To be honest it took me years to get too meh. My fury and hatred frightened even me. Him moving back to the States most definitely helped as he couldn’t just show up at the house. Now that my second son is married I probably never have to see him again. But I realize I’m at meh because I don’t hate him any more and don’t wish him ill, I just want him to leave me alone. I think he actually got his comeuppance because latest Schmoopie is frickin’ nuts!

  • I don’t consider myself at 100% meh. As a coparent, I still have to deal with him on a far too frequent basis.

    It’s nothing like at the beginning – over five years ago. I know that he can’t get to me, other than to be annoying. He still occasionally asks me out on dates or to accompany him on trips with our son, which I find insulting to say the least. (Again, not quite meh).

    I know who he is and I don’t care what he does or who he’s with as long as he continues to pay child support and show up when he’s supposed to.

    Many things about my life have improved…
    I am better off financially. (We had nothing together, but I’ve changed some bad habits and built a cushion for myself).

    I kept all of our friends (he lost them all) and have deeper relationships with each of them, as well as all of my family.

    I have moved up in my career: I started a new job that has been a great learning experience and I started a monthly happy hour for my industry.

    I’ve gotten more or less comfortable with the weirdness of online dating, believe it or not. I’ve enjoyed some flings that moved me forward emotionally and taught me that I can walk away from situations that aren’t right for me.

    I have a very close relationship with my dear, sweet, beautiful son.

    Reading other comments, I was reminded of the simple pleasure of my own music playlists. X would also turn off my music if he came home to me playing something I chose.

    If you are new here, my heart goes out to you and I wish you all the strength in the world. Please know that you’re in the right place and that this is the best advice anyone could give you.

    KNOW YOUR WORTH! It’s such a big, huge, important message and there are many more here as well.

    When I first started telling my story, I found out that FOUR of my friends had sucked it up and stayed with their cheating husbands. They told very few people, if any, and I wouldn’t have learned about it unless I had shared.

    I could say that some things have been tough since my divorce, but I honestly can’t think of anything more sickening than secretly sticking with that person who crushed you. I’m so thankful every day that he showed me who he was from the beginning so I didn’t try to reconcile.

    My dear chumps, just keep going one more day at a time. Read here until you internalize the words. They helped me more than anything.

    Much love and thanks always to you Tracy!❤️❤️❤️

  • I’m single, and I love it.

    I will stay single, because it is just so cool.

    I love my life. It’s not exciting, but I still love it.

  • Meh-what a beautiful topic!
    My Timeline:
    Aug 2014- x left for Okinawa, Japan. he was active duty and iI elected to stay behind because my son was a Junior in HS and our daughter was 2-1/2 years old. he would visit us every 4-6 months and it was hard but we were doing it and kicking ass while we did it! I was so happy and proud of all of us! I thought he was too…..
    October 2016 – he tells me over the phone he’s leaving me. he says there’s no one else…but he says, “i don’t love you anymore, i don’t want to work things out with you, i don’t want to be with you anymore and its finally time for me to be happy…” WTF?? We hardly had problems and hardly had disagreements! Divorce paperwork from him arrives soon after
    January 2018 – OW and x get engaged and its posted all over fb. he hardly ever posted anything about the kids or I but now? wow…
    May 23, 2018: Divorce is final! EL FIN!!!!
    October 2018 – OW and x get married in Japan so she can legally come here to the States.
    August 9, 2019 – I realized I am at Meh and I’ve been here for a long time I just didn’t realize it! It’s pretty cool actually! It’s like Prosecco bubbles tickling the roof of your mouth! Its like a Reece’s Pieces Dairy Queen Blizzard (large one)! A piece of Chocolate cake from Cheesecake Factory that’s the size of your head!! It’s all the flavors of a Moscato wine swirling around your mouth and falling like a little waterfall over your tongue! its a beautiful feeling and its so amazing! We will help you get there. Don’t give up!
    Take a deep breath and drop your shoulders. Keep your hands up by your head to protect that gorgeous face! Now narrow your gaze and give it everything you’ve got. Hit that obstacle right in the face. If it hits you back and you fall down when you get up say, “you hit like a bitch” and fucking pummel it…try kickboxing if you can…great stress reliever and you can lose some pounds while getting your badass self back. You’ve got this and we’ve got your six, mamma. Now go! Fight!! Meh is right there!! Can you see it?

    • Different Nationality (us) but same. Dickface twat posted to Tokyo (with me in tow) only to find out he sleeping with many Japanese bimbos (“….and fell in love with two!” WTF) after long marriage. DFT found another woman to move in with so he could stay in country but I’m home and loving it! I just can’t wait for DFT to marry one and see the grass is not greener over there! Popcorn out!

      • Oh and now realise how friggin boring my life was with DFT as I managed our social and family life! Phffft!

  • Dday was almost one year ago and since I’ve had many glimpses of Meh. I wasn’t married nor did I have kids with my ex so that does make it easier and less complicated. While it’s painful the fastest train there is no contact and that includes no snooping.

    In fact I think dropping the Sherlock Holmes thing is the most important tactic to finding meh. I’m tempted every so often and I have to remind myself that nothing good ever comes from it. I never glean anything that will help me understand what happened. It doesn’t ever help untangle the skein. It just leaves me feeling miserable and asking more questions.

    Visiting this blog, reading (and re-reading) the posts, and the discussions also expedited my healing.

    Big hugs to everyone on their journey to the Promised Land. It exists, I’ve been there (due to another fuckwit dated) and I’ll get there again. Can’t wait to see all of you at the land of milk & honey.

  • I’ve been 100% NO CONTACT with Creeperpants for more than two years now. It still hurts, so meh hasn’t happened for me yet. I was, however, recently contacted by Mr. Misogyny Super Christian who I dated before Creeperpants. When I saw Mr. Misogyny Super Christian’s name pop up on my email notification, I had literally no reaction. Except, “Oh, that’s someone I know from such-and-such mission trip.”

    More good news. Unbeknownst to me, Mr. Misogyny Super Christian hopped on a conference call I was on to offer his brief hello. I had no reaction. My heart didn’t leap, sink, or skip.

    I so look forward to the day when thoughts of Creeperpants are equally unstimulating.

  • Meh is steadily approaching for me. The crapweasel fuckwit got married to his skank last week and all I did was laugh until my sides hurt. Then I laughed some more.

    • LOL couple of scumbags tie the knot. Cue the misery!!! Oh boy I hope they enjoy the smell of each other’s nasty shit. Nobody left to betray but one another. Love the laughter I’m enjoying it vicariously.

  • This post is timely for me. My cheater DJ Sparklws was cheating whilst I was pregnant. Sadly I had a miscarriage and he picked the day after to leave me. Cue PTSD.
    A couple of months later he splits up with OWhore and gets a new girlfriend MsNaive. I never had anything against MsNaive beyond thinking she had even worse judgement than me.
    I later find out from a ‘friend’ that DJ Sparkles and Ms Naive have a son. They are blocked from all social media so I find out ages after the fact.

    Anyway fast forward 8 years. I’m in Court for work, head down and working on a case (I’m a child protection social worker). I do not notice MsNaive and her family in the next booth for like 10 minutes.
    I have overheard a couple of things ‘no maintenance’, ‘drug abuse’, ‘nightmare’. I quietly pick up my stuff and move to another part of the building.
    The karma bus may have finally arrived but all I can think is “poor kid” followed by “not my circus, not my flying monkeys”. Funnily enough it actually was on a Tuesday. I never, ever thought I would get here. Chump nation helped me tremendously.

  • PS,I am a childless-not-by-choice woman who has

    is now celebrating my childless/childfree life with the help of the organisation
    I am (mostly) content with my lot. Please no ‘bingos’ about adoption, fostering, ivf or miracle late life babies etc. I considered all options before deciding to embrace my life as it is.

  • D-Day was a year ago. We’re in the process of getting divorced (15 years married, two kids) and she left me for her married fucktard boyfriend. I think I’m somewhere in the state of Meh, travelling towards Meh City. Do I feel cheated and chumped? Yes. Do I miss the “good old days”? Yes, but now I wonder how much of that was real. Do I want her back? No. Do I still get anxiety when I see them together? Yes, but it’s less. Meh is on the horizon. She is for the most part, in my rear view mirror.

    • Best wishes to you and yours. Hope your life gets better. It is so hard when the double standards and bullshit is constantly one sided. Everyone encourages the dear cheater while we pick up the mess, again. Hope to meet you in Meh city asap. Would be nice if these assholes could empathize or even introspect for one gdamn minute. But then, they wouldn’t be selfish cheaters would they?

  • Meh
    There were many false starts yet I’ve settled into living a much better life as a strong single woman. I’m solid and comfortable in this, the best chapter in my life.

    Face your fears, set boundaries, set goals, leave a cheater and fly! Do not settle, raise your bar, and take care of your needs. If I can do it after 41 years of abuse, so can you!

  • I find myself pondering a lot on how the covert narcissists have kept one from having fulfilling relationships with those for whom normally one would have had deep affection, and those who would normally have had deep affection for one.
    In the end, when they are discovered, it becomes clear who was loving and bore deep affection all along. And one can freely do loveliness, and receive loveliness then. Yet it might take a lifetime. Or many years indeed. The cloud really must lift in order for all the parties involved to see clearly. And it’s not that it is guaranteed that one gains clarity with the death of covert narcissists.
    It’s only with a lot of work and pain, that the layers towards truth can be peeled off. And one must also have the help of the gods to discover things and unearth secrets. And more help of the gods if one has had the misfortune to have been born in a narcissist nest, and maybe further have stepped and remained entangled in another narcissist nest. Those layers truly need to be peeled away in order to find oneselves with the loving ones.

  • I believe I am living firmly in the borders of Meh.

    What does that look like, new chumps wonder? Well as CL says you are at acceptance with what happened. That means you understand that it’s in the past and no longer happening to you now. It means that you are pretty indifferent to the cheaters and their partners in crime-whether they are still the OW/OM or have been demoted to OWife/OHusband. Their status does not mean anything to you and it doesn’t affect your life.

    If you don’t have children, or your children are adults, you have the extra added bonus of being oblivious to their shiny new toys, shiny vacations and shiny lives. This is because you can block them in every way humanly possible. Even if you can’t block them on your phone, I highly recommend blocking them on social media. It helps you establish residency in Meh sooner!

    One of the best bonuses of living in Meh? If you have unfortunately bred with a cheater, when your children come to you with tales of new houses etc, “cool, bummer, wow” is the extent of your contribution to the mostly one sided conversation. These bits of information are merely a blip on your radar screen and you no longer flinch at their mere mention.

    Overall, life in the great town of Meh means freedom from being the marriage police and freedom from trying to make sense out of all the lies and half truths. It’s freedom from gaslighting and the pick-me-dance marathon in hell! It means freedom from waiting for Karma to deliver her just desserts and freedom from envying a cheater’s “so called better life.” (Courtesy of Cashmere) It means permanently removing your head from the mindfuck blender. It’s peace and harmony and not pretzeling yourself to make your needs small so you can accommodate the needs of a bottomless, soulless pit.

    The best part? Your entry here only requires acceptance; not forgiveness. And even when acceptance is acquired, you are encouraged in Meh to maintain no contact for your sanity. It is recognized as a boundary in these parts and there is no judgement for enforcing said boundaries. It is also recognized that there will be occasional resentment but it is short lived and loses its intensity over time.

    It’s been almost 10 years since my dday. I delayed my healing and relocation to Meh by staying in faux reconciliation for 3 additional years. I’ve been divorced for 5 years and have residing in Meh since the beginning of this year. Healing takes time but it’s totally worth the effort, especially if the prize at the end is Meh!

  • Recently I noticed a pattern I went into when I went to go block a cheating ex on Instagram.
    I kept forgetting to do it because I got distracted by nail polish swatches.

    I would go on Instagram with the intention of blocking him, I’d go to the search tool (you have to go to someone’s profile in order to block them) and I’d see a cool nail polish swatch, I’d go look at it. Then down the rabbit hole of nail polish colors and designs, sometimes I’d end up following a new designer. Then I’d close Instagram and …whoops, what did I go there to do???? Oh shit yeah…that…

    If you get so distracted by something as inoccuous as nail polish that you actually forget to block your ex, then you’re in a good place.

    (Yes, I did eventually block him because a friend saw me scrolling makeup/nail polish pages again and she made me.)

  • Reading y’alls comments gives me hope! Some days I feel like I’m getting to meh and then I start to feel sad about the break up or think about him and all the things he did or the lies he told and I feel like I’m regressing. I have hope though because I’m doing the things I need to do (strict no contact/journaling/burning pics/mementos, and reading CL/CN of course ;-). and I feel like one day I will find myself at meh!!!

  • I’m getting there! I still have a lot of intrusive thoughts, but I find that I’m no longer at all attracted to him. He married the skank and I had a hard time – for about a minute. Then I packed up the rest of his stuff, put it in a storage unit for him, and vowed not to talk or see him again. Ever.

    Not sure that’s totally realistic because we have young adult children/teens who may get married someday but for now, good riddance.

    The town of meh is lovely. Best real estate around!

  • As a seasoned ‘pro’, 3 cheating partners over 13, 8 and 4 years, with the first one having cheated 3 times, and pregnant with his baby – here are my thoughts…

    The Truth Is Out There – as Mulder and Scully once said…. Did they end up finding it? Of course they didn’t, and neither will you, so don’t bother looking.

    Even if you ask, do you think they will tell you the truth? They will be in damage limitation mode. And remember the reason why they are in this mess. They lied to you about the affair, so what makes you think they won’t keep on lying?

    Having found out my ex wasn’t where she said she was on the night in question, wasn’t working as she said she was, wasn’t with the people she said she was with, was in a part of London she told me she wasn’t in, with somebody else (spoiler alert, it was a man…..), couldn’t prove where she said she stayed, and then when the ‘man’ then admitted the affair to his partner, she still had the front to deny it!!! Even when he managed to disclose a couple of intimate details…

    Number 1 rule – don’t try and think how crazy people think……

    Seek help. When I say ‘help’, I don’t mean your best mate, your parents, etc. You can, and in the short term these can be invaluable, but remember, you will become a bore very quickly….People have their own problems, and really don’t want to hear about yours, over and over and over and over….

    If you can afford it, seek professional help aka counselling. This will do one of two things. They will listen and give you professional guidance (you’re paying them – remember), and give you unbiased advice. Oh and even better – you’ll come out realising that you aren’t the crazy one…

    Contact – unless there’s a bloody good reason why you need to stay in contact (kids have a lot to answer for) – DON’T. I’ll repeat that again – DON’T. Did I mention DON’T? ???? They will normally try….

    This time I’ve had the ridiculous to the sublime. Pictures of biscuits in a French supermarket asking whether they were the same as the one’s as in Morrisons and that the 2nd series of a TV programme that I watched, was starting soon (being nice); that she was out of Marseille hospital and back at ‘home’ in NICE (sympathy); asking whether she could come ‘home’ now (heart strings); to a picture of her and my other cheating ex, clinking wine glasses in London somewhere (retribution).

    When they won’t move on and keep on contacting you, ask them nicely not to contact you again. In the meantime speak to the police, and get one of them onside. If they contact you again, speak to the police and ask them to call/email them asking them to stop (this finally worked for me after 36 contacts over 14 days, and these were the ones that were delivered. I blocked as many numbers/WhatsApps/email addresses/etc – but she just set up new email addresses and new numbers). If all else fails, apply for a non-molestation order. It’s free and relatively easy with a bit of Googling. You not replying to any contacts is invaluable in both proving to the police and the court that you are not encouraging it…..

    So did I mention – DON’T????

    You are their safety blanket. Do you want to be one all your life? As somebody once said – silence is golden.

    You’re not to blame – they might try to make you think you are and you might think you are – but YOU ARE NOT.

    Yes – it takes two to tango, but did you commit the final act of betrayal, and cheat?

    My Mum, rather unhelpfully, suggested that it had something to do with me (thanks Mum). Her first guess was ‘sex’ (the first time and probably last time I’ve heard her use that word…..). FYI – it isn’t/wasn’t. Second guess (which is worrying in itself as it was her 2nd guess), was that I work too hard. Yes, probably guilty – but then again we all have out ‘faults’ but we don’t all cheat.

    Context – FFS get a grip – nobody has died. Yes – tough love, but having seen my Mum lose my dad 50 years ago during his sleep, and friends in the village lose their spouses in the last year, count yourself lucky. You have extracted the cancer that didn’t respect you, but they are not dead (although that can be arranged at an additional cost ????). Think of those that lose somebody when they are truly in love with another, and the hurt that causes….

    You have to be happy with yourself before…. – I’m an only child, and loved being an only child. It wasn’t because I got more presents than friends I knew that had brothers and sister, nor the attention that you get when you’re the only offspring. It was because I could do what I wanted to do, when I wanted to do it. If I wanted to be alone, I could. If I didn’t want to be alone, I went to see friends.

    However, I had unlearnt this – or actually reprogrammed by her. My first cheating ex couldn’t sleep in a room that had any light, and as a consequence I had to do the same. Some 25 years later, I am still the same, because I have not bothered to unlearn this (which I should have).

    So unlearn it!!!! What I realised is that I don’t miss her, I miss the friendship, my partner in crime (okay – the sex as well)… But these are things (well apart from the last one), you can find in friends and associates.

    Pros and cons – most of us will look back and think of the good times, and what you miss…. So take off that rose-tinted blindfold. Think of the bad times, and what the future would have looked like if you had stayed together.

    Things were bad before she cheated, mainly because she didn’t work, got drunk every night, got up mid-morning/early afternoon, did FA around the house, etc, etc. What kind of life was that for me? Did I want to spend the rest of my life like that? What does that say about the ‘respect’ she had for me?

    As for the future, I had asked the cheater to leave about a month before she cheated (long story….). When she cheated, in any argument that followed, my silver bullet and usually the end of the discussion was ‘at least I didn’t BLEEP cheat’…. Can you imagine the rest of your life doing the same. Thinking about where they were when they weren’t with you, who they were (or weren’t with), not trusting them, going through their phone, checking up on them, etc, etc. And why should you? They were the one that cheated!!!!

    Time – having filled out an appraisal for counselling a month ago, and then again this week, things have changed (for the better I hasten to add). Okay – so nobody can fast forward time, and as we all know, time heals, but we all know that in x weeks/months time, memories and the hurt fade…..

    I’m just over 2 months into cutting out the last cancer in my life, and the above has been invaluable. Reading this on my ‘down’ days is all I need, and therefore it’s probably more for me than for all of you, but I truly hope it’s helpful for others.

  • Thank you LV. I’m 2 days past his finally admitting affair. He says it began during our current 4 month separation but I know that’s not true. I’ve been working hard on healing and growing during this separation, but was in denial and “pick me” dancing like crazy. So I’m devastated. I’m in a dark place, reaching out to friends and family but worried about overwhelming them. Reaching out now to all of you. Help.

    • lemonhead, big, BIG comfort hug. I’m happy you found, sorry you had to find us this way. This is your tribe. You can come here anytime of the day and night and someone be able to listen and comfort you. The first thing you need to do is take care of yourself. If you don’t take care of yourself you won’t be able to care for others.

    • Lemonhead, I am so sorry. You do not deserve the bitter pain of betrayal. Nothing you did could possibly justify his choices. He chose to cheat on you. You didn’t deserve that.

      Now stop dancing, seriously do not pick-me dance. Instead dance over to a lawyers office and file. And when you back home, get all your documents together, make copies of everything. Don’t spend a second on him. I can guarantee-damn-tee you he has only told you a fraction of the truth.

      Forgiving a cheater only allows them to hone their cheating skills on the shards of your broken heart. Is he wildly pick-me dancing? Then insist on a postnuptial agreement; marital and individual counseling. That will come in handy when he cheats again.

      Do not make this easy on him. Did he make it easy on you when he cheated? He didn’t consider a second the devastation his choice to cheat would cause you. He did not love you or he would never dickdown another gal.

      You have to put yourself first. Fuck that cheater. You deserve so much better. You deserve a man who won’t lie to you. You deserve a man who doesn’t endanger you with sexually transmitted diseases. Adultery is abuse and you deserve better.

      • Perfectly stated Thirtythreeyearsachump. Bravo! Adultery is definitely abuse. And the sooner society flips back to that concept the better off we will be. Chumps need to keep talking about it. The “Ain’t it awful, now get over it and move on” attitude that most people have about it just minimizes the degradation and devastation that chumps feel not to mention the complete annihilation of families. Is it any wonder that mental illness and addiction are huge problems now? Lemonhead, I wish I could hug you right now. Believe me, everyone here understands as perhaps few others can. The next few months will be rough, you will be crazy, but I promise you it will get better. A broken heart can heal. And, as trite as it sounds, it IS a lot better on the other side.

  • I am grateful for the liberation from the weight of the shame/guilt which I was made to carry for 52 years. First by the insidious, subtle, covert abuse by my father’s family (with the exception of dear grandfather) and subsequently by my ex-husband’s family. It was not just father and ex-husband who were double dealing traitors. It was their families in the first place. They are so full of darkness/shame that they must purge themselves of it. And they take hostage individuals to make them receptacles of such darkness/shame.
    Apparently I waited many years for the other shoe to drop, as I could not understand what had happened to me. The other shoe did drop with ex-husband, and with that I am liberated from being Atlas carrying all that weight. Through this my mother and sister got freed as well.

  • Meh…

    I had to look that up.

    But I’m there,.

    I think that the way I got there was dating other men, and falling in love with some of them. It’s been 13 years, and I’ve been engaged twice, almost a third time. Yeah, I’m still learning… and not wanting to go through that much pain again, and not finding the guy that feels trustworthy, yet.

    But I think I will!

    Happy trails, to you, fellow chumps on the road to recovery! There will be light for your path, and love for your heart along the way, if you look for them! Be open to new experiences, new people, new love.

    And choose well.

    Don’t keep going back to people who have not treated you well! Find people – just people! – that you like, and who like you, that you laugh with, and tell stories to, and look forward to seeing, again and again, and grow some new roots!

    A friend took me aside when I was first on my journey, and she said, “Lightheart, I’ve noticed something. The friends you are making are all men! And the second you get a potential mate in your life, they’ll all disappear, and he’ll expect them to. So all the time you’re investing now… GONE! But if you invest in WOMEN FRIENDS right now, when you’re hurting so much, you’ll have them for LIFE.”

    I had to force myself to get out at first. I was fearful. I didn’t know anyone. We moved to a foreign country just before D-Day. I didn’t have the faintest idea of what to do with myself.

    But I got busy. And I got out. And it was DIFFICULT. But I kept going. Better than just pacing in my home, all alone. Oh, it was also Empty Nest at the time! So my heart was already hurting a bit! Oh, and he paraded the OW around in front of me, and moved her into one of our places, which was in the same complex as my place. Oh… not easy! But I built a new life, and it felt good.

    And you can, too.

  • When we were 4 months away from the divorce being finalized and I had discovered two more bombshells of deceit he had created (egregious financial infidelity, on top of everything else) I had a conversation with him and asked him to please get professional counseling, for himself and for our children and his/their financial futures, he looked me right in the face and said “This is how I choose to live my life and there’s nothing you can do about it”.
    I’ve been divorced for 3 years now, there is no remorse, nothing has changed and there will never be an apology.
    And I’ve finally come to terms with that. He’s a fuckwit and that is a fact of life.

  • D-Day was in Nov ’17, and my divorce was final in Dec ’18. Was together with the X for 16 years, 10 of them married.

    I was lucky to have discovered Chumplady (and the forums!) early on after D-Day. It helped put my head straight about the situation that I was in, and how much of a chump I was. I was with a narcissist, and I was growing smaller and smaller each day but I didn’t know why I was unhappy.

    My journey to meh started slowly, but surely when I decided to get physical – I went to the gym 3x a week, created a new schedule for myself and focused on learning a new skill: dancing (and surprise, surprise, I am good at it!) I had lots of fun, made new friends and I slowly left my old life behind.

    In the early days it was very painful. I hadn’t gotten over the fact that I was kicked to the curb and it felt like I was tossed out like garbage. But slowly I came to realise that he was like this all along – I just didn’t know the signs and put up with less than what I deserved. But the pain stopped when I realised that he wasn’t worth it, and I can’t fix it; but I can say goodbye to it.

    As someone who needs to know what will happen in the future and to plan for almost everything (probably one of the side effects of being with a narcissist), I am now much better at just taking things slow and easy. I know that I alone am enough. I’m not stepping on eggshells anymore. I don’t have to appease anyone. I can have feelings! And I can talk about them whenever I wish, without waiting for the right time to do so.

    Meh is wonderful. I don’t think about the X. I don’t think about who he is with. I don’t care about what he is doing. I don’t care about him at all. He feels like a stranger whom I once knew (or thought I knew). He has no power over me, and he gets the basic courtesy of an acquaintance whenever we have to communicate. I sometimes find myself pitying him, like I would a stranger, but that is the extent of the feelings I have for him. I’m lucky in the sense that he was never outright mean to me, or vindictive. He’s just no longer a part of my life because I don’t want him in it – I don’t tell him anything about myself or my life. It’s all just bummer, cool or wow.

    Meh is calm. Meh is about being comfortable in my own skin, being able to breathe again. Meh is about opening up myself to what life has to offer. Meh is comfortable, like having a cup of hot tea overlooking a garden on a Sunday afternoon.

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