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No Contact Wins

Freaks can fling some tasty bait at chumps. Why, just last Monday we read about the cheater who told everyone his chump ex was ISIS.

Your Fun Friday Challenge is to share your no contact wins with CN.

What provocation, insult, ridiculous rumor, bad tagged Facebook photo, withering slight did you NOT react to? What’s your Zen secret?

And, for extra credit, how was this received? (Extra, EXTRA credit if you don’t know, because you’re no contact!) Did the freak try harder? Did they give up? Are they screaming into the void while you catch up with Netflix?

Tell CN about your mighty boundaries!


Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I’ve been practising no contact and grey rock for over a year now but have only become proficient in the art in the past few months. Since I’ve honed my skills he has ramped up the attempted mindfuckery. A year ago this would have sent me into a spiral but I can’t even get pissed off right now so clearly I’m becoming a junior zen master. This is just the past couple of months: he told the kids he and OW are going to sell her former marital home and move to my suburb (would have appalled me a year ago, but now I’m meh); that got no reaction so he told the kids he’s going to move his and OW’s pet chickens into my backyard (yeeeaaahhhh, no); that got no reaction so he told the kids he’s moving to another city 3000km away; again nothing, so he drove his OW to said city and FaceTimed the kids from there (he never FaceTimes) saying really loudly how great it is for kids in said city (he never told me he was even going); came back and FaceTimed the kids during dinner and told them I was serving dinner too late; then just last Monday after I told him I was taking the kids away for a few days …. he phoned the shire council (anonymously) to report that my pool fence is not up to standard and now the council has DRAINED THE POOL and erected a huge prison-style fence at my expense. LOL.

    (I know pool safety is no laughing matter – I accept that my fence was inadequate as regards current regulations which have just changed. I was in process of landscaping and rectifying fence situation, i guess he saw his opportunity and took it).

    We were on the trip when the pool was drained. He probably expected me to come home and panic but my dad sorted it out in my absence and then I took the kids to stay at my parents’ house instead and the kids haven’t seen it yet. Now he’s collected them for his portion of the holidays and will probably grill them and they’ll have no idea.

    I have decided to fill in the pool anyway and put a beautiful lawn there. The pool was old amd needed work, and it reminded me of him anyway. He paced around it whilst on the phone to OW on dday. Drinking a cup of tea that I had spat in. Give me a break. It was day 1. I hadn’t learned the art of grey rock.

    • Omg u Rock !!! What a true idiot he is Wow ! Ur a warrior. Keep up the great work !!!!

    • Seriously so funny. I’m proud of you but omg does the man quit??? Doesn’t he have all he “ever wanted” since Tuesday? Can’t he leave you alone now?

    • Wow, he and the OW must be so happy together, I love how thirsty he is for your attention to affirm what a prize he is, and I hope the OW has worked out by now that all the stuff they are doing, going places, facetiming the kids etc, is designed solely by your ex to get your attention. True love. Haha about the cup of tea. You rock.

    • Suzy Q filling in the pool was genius. In his mind you would have to jump through hoops to redo the pool area because he demanded it.Filling it in is equivalent to flecking away a pesky fly that lands on your arm. Savor his reaction when he fins out…..

      • That is genius. Cheater liked our hot tub…I hated it and thought it was stupid. I have a clear memory of sitting with him in it and him saying “It is your fault Im overweight because you wont go on outdoor oriented weekends with me”. I told him “You have healthy food in the kitchen and access to a gym…I will not accept blame for what you choose to eat” “I’m not blaming you” …hmmmm, he needs to look up the work “blame”.

        When he died, I paid a guy to haul the hot tub away.

  • I am 5 years divorced. Wasband broke up with the neighborhood crackhead he left me for last Oct after they were on again/Off again for 2 years.

    I guess my meh moment was after wasband tried to comment suicide in Oct 2016. At first I was paralyzed with guilt thinking it was my fault for divorcing him and he was so super sad at losing his wife and kids drive him to it. I reached out to him only to find out that he had literally not given me or the kids any thought in the past 2 years (we divorced in mar 2014). I was projecting my beliefs onto him again. (Because losing my kids would be what would drive ME to suicide). Snd it really hit like a ton of bricks just how little we meant to him.

    So I get the news he breaks up with the troll he left me for. But I still dont hear from him for another 6 months. Then he facebook messages me how he is “sorry for everything” and “this is not what he intended “.. .. .. his half ass apology did not effect me. And I felt nothing. I did ask “what did you intend then?” Meaning it as a smart ass remark like what did you think would happen when you started fucking the neighbor.. .. .. of course it was lost on him as he answered “I intended a wife and kids” *yes I know it doesnt even make sense*.. .. .. but I just laughed, stopped responding and went on with my day. Tuesday had finally come.

    Unfortunately I still know more then I should but if doesn’t effect me anymore. Except possible more shock at just how stupid and toxic he really is. Like just when I think he is at rock bottom, he surprises me by doing something that prove Yes he can. There is a basement to his rock bottom.

    But it just shows me that there was no way I could have ever “saved” him. We are just so extremely different in the way we think and belief. AND I AM SO MUCH BETTER NOT LIVING THAT WAY

    Life is good. I have my kids, my grandkids, my family, my friends, my job, my truck and my house. All the things that is important to me. He has nothing. Literally. No kids no true friends. No family. No job. No vehicle. No house or apartment. He is currently homeless, bouncing between his narc mom and his methhead sister. Working side jobs to avoid paying child support. He is 60 thousand in arrears. His brand new just off the line Nissan versa I was so jealous about got repossed in Feb for non payment. Fool made 3 payments and nothing else for 2 years. Probably took him that long for them to find him since he moves do much.

    Life is wonderful on the other side.

    • Mighty indeed!
      I’ve gotten to the point where, while I may laugh at the absurdity of what he does, I also don’t take y. I lightly and put things in place.

    • >But it just shows me that there was no way I could have ever “saved” him.

      Hard-won wisdom here: Only Jesus saves. You take care of yourself when someone breaks your boundaries.

    • Mrs. Vain- Your post gives me hope and new determination to stay NC. The basements become catacombs, don’t they? LOL

  • No contact is so hard and I’m still getting the hang of it. I feel like it’s a process. I do feel better when I don’t contact him at all, so I know it’s the best way, but he knows how to bait me unfortunately after 23 years together and 3 kids.
    He also lives right down the road with the OW who used to be my best friend.

    • That’s really tough Gail. You are mighty to keep NC under those conditions. I doubt I could do it

  • After d-day he sent me a ton of texts. Him – ” great, now I’ll be homeless” ” you will send me to jail if I don’t pay child support?”” do you want our daughter to meet ow?” ” how are we suppose to fix this, I gave you the house and 50% of retirement”. Me-crickets for 2 yrs now

    • “If you don’t call me back, I’m going to crash the car into a tree and kill myself. Then, I’m going to take the car to Gary’s and get it fixed….because you think he rips people off. You’re just jealous because he does better work than you.”

      • Did your ex really say that?? XD How he going to take the car to the shop if the crash killed him? Is he a poltergeist now??


      • Super…..

        Seriously?!?! What a flamin’ retard! How did your brain not implode when you read that?!

      • Wow. Your ex is a supernatural force to be reckoned with! Committing suicide w/the car, and then is able to come back from the dead and take it to the competition. Now that’s some serious mojo! I bet you were out of your mind w/worry about this.????

      • Oh…..she’s a little dandy. Looking back, when she always threatened those stupid suicide stunts, I should have had have called 911. After a week locked up naked for evaluation, that would have stopped.

        • SuperDuper – that’s exactly what I wished I’d done (we live and learn here) is called 911 immediately. He threatened to blow his head off twice when he was against the wall. 20 yrs apart. After DDay, I wasn’t sure he’d use the gun on myself before he did on him. IF he did him. haha

  • CrapWeasel sent me an email two months back about him marrying the skank and this long-ass explanation of how my DD’s insurance will change.

    After I stopped laughing because my sides hurt, my reply was a single sentence to put the new insurance cards in the mail. (DD is not a mailman, he can afford two damn stamps.)

    Can’t do no contact yet because of young DD but only 13 more years before I can truly shut him out forever. And that will be a sweet day indeed.

    • Gentlechump,

      I’m so sorry to hear you have 13 more years to deal w/the ex. I only have to handle 5 more serious years w/my XW until our youngest, my son, gets out of high school. Then I will have more options in my life. I can’t imagine having to seriously deal w/the XW for 8 more years after that. And I hope I don’t come across wrong by saying that. I could have had the same situation you have. The XW just waited longer in our marriage to pull her infidelity shit. Basically until I was no longer providing the income/lifestyle she wanted. Because, you know, my sanity wasn’t as much a priority as her happiness, and didn’t provide the stellar appearance to her life that is essential to her. Especially as an ambitious politician.????

      I’m sending you lots of sympathy and empathy, and many wishes for endurance, patience and strength for those 13 years. However, you should be very proud of your ability to laugh at your ex. That is definitely a skill worth having, so hats off to you. It happens for me too, but just as often I’m pissed off at her. Silently, of course. I’m as greyrock w/her as possible. Best wishes for you and your DD.

    • I have 3 girls & my no contact means no physical contact, no phone & no texting. Communication is solely through the court appointee email where a judge would read it if we ended back in court. His lies are the best when I catch him. Document, dump & ignore.

  • During the long, drawn out divorce process, Penis Wrinkle found my Pinterest board where I had lots of memes pinned about cheating shit-for-brains and their skanky affair partners, along with lots of other things that made me laugh.

    We already had an agreement in place to only communicate through Our Family Wizard about things concerning our child. All other communication was to go through the lawyers. So, he decided to email me anyway. I think he was most likely drunk…

    The theme of his email was about how “unclassy” I was for having such a Pinterest board, and he signed it #neglectfulwifeisapparentlysadnow.

    I forwarded that gem to my lawyer who promptly mailed a reminder to Fuckboy the Wondertwit’s lawyer reminding them of how communication was to be handled and how the courts did not look favorably on cyberstalking…

    • LOL – I bet his attorney did a huge eye roll when that letter had to be written to Penis Wrinkle.

    • Unreal that he’s trying to stalk you on Pinterest. For heaven’s sake. Checking out your recipes & decorating ideas? What’s next, they’re stalking us on LinkedIn?

      • Mine did the same thing! He said that a mutual friend sends the stuff I put on my pinterest. I told him that we DO NOT have any mutual friends. And if he did not care about me why was he reading my pinterest quotes??!! Geta life dude!

      • Yes, actually. Mine repeatedly viewed my LinkedIn profile. I was in the process of changing jobs. It’s like he didn’t realize that you can see who has looked at you.

  • I was not that good at no contact in the very beginning. Eventually I got the hang of it though. I am fortunate that we got divorced when our children were adults. About 9 months after our day in court I received a “Happy Birthday” text. I had received random contact from him at that point and on my birthday I decided I would block him on my phone. So I did.

    I have heard absolutely nothing since then other than one email received at work which I ignored.

    Since that time he got married and built a new house. I would be blissfully ignorant of both things if not for my children telling me about the new house and Facebook telling me that the (blocked) OW had a new last name. I noticed as I was adding peeps from the old hood to my blocked list.

    Those two events didn’t effect my life in any way so meh. It’s been almost 6 years since my divorce. I love crickets!

    • D day was May 2. Our divorce should be final next week. I got a happy birthday text last Friday on my birthday. After coming up with some great ideas for replies, I didn’t respond. Instead I headed out on the road trip with my daughter and SIL. It was the BEST birthday in 29 years!

      He loved the silent treatment. His responses to questions he didn’t want to answer were always shrugs. Maybe he’s starting to feel lonely without our friends, time with our daughter and a wife that did everything for him. *Shrug*

    • Good for you, cheaterssuck! I can’t wait to get there. I get a glimpse of meh every now and then, but it’s not sustained. Looking forward to not giving a fuck AT ALL about her or her POS partner, except if he/she fucks w/our kids mentally and/or emotionally. Then they’d better watch out. By the way, great username. They sure do, don’t they?

  • After having MY phone calls to sparkledick ignored numerous times (he was “too busy”, as credit card statements eventually proved), it felt so good to ignore his frantic calls trying to not divorce (he had done the math and was in debt).

    Then I started getting e-mails to the tune of: “don’t you miss your Little Bug?!?”. Not answering them also felt good.

    The ONLY e-mail I answered was when sparkles complained that I was telling friends about why we were divorcing. So I pulled a line from LACGAL: “if what you did isn’t so terrible, then it isn’t so terrible for me to tell people”

    No contact goes hand in hand with dignity.

    Driving to work today I was thinking, how can there be so many unfair, selfish stupid jerks out there?

    AND I LOVE crickets too! So good to fall asleep listening to them.

  • One of fuckwit’s early strategies to repair his severed relationship with the children was to attack me in his emails and texts to them. He would tell them they were victims of feelingit’s game of hate. They all found that particularly funny and he said it many times.

    The children and I had a group chat called family and one day ds then 13 figured out he could change the name and he. changed it to (our last name) game of hate. It stuck and still gives me a smile when I see it. A regular comment in our house is “it’s in the hate game.”

    Dd17 told me last year, a friend of hers saw it on her phone and asked what it was. She just said family group chat- it’s a joke and the girl replied she thought it was funny and she wanted one. Her last name is house and she liked the sound of house game of hate.

  • My no contact win is that I did not know until more than a year after my divorce that an Adultery Baby Existed.

    Welp. That explains how I got the HPV that gave me Stage I Cervical Cancer after 41 years of clean screenings.

    I’m really proud that I set those boundaries and removed myself from that narrative. I gave all my attention during that time to my own children and my own health.

    It must have been hard work manufacturing drama for Cold Slab O’Meat and his cast of revolving bedmates, but that was not a show I was interested in at allllll.

    • Luziana,

      My God. What a POS asshole your ex must be. I hope he gets some form of cancer (terminal) in the near future. Isn’t it amazing how they have no problem risking their faithful partner’s health by their actions? My XW acted as if I was being unsophisticated about it all. “He’s been a married man for 40 years, what could he have?”, she said to me (this is as close as I can remember).

      Oh, I don’t know. Maybe you’ve never considered that you’re not the only POS, lowlife, extra-marital sexual partner he’s had in those 40 years, let alone now? Not to mention, you have no idea of what his wife has going on health-wise or does w/her body inside or outside of their marriage? I don’t mean to cut down her POS partner’s XW, but honestly, I don’t think my XW considered this at all, based on her reactions to me pointing this stuff out (I’m pretty sure they’re divorced, but have never asked the XW to be sure. Doesn’t fit into greyrock, so…). To her, I was just being somewhat hysterical about this.

      And, of course, I was just being SILLY worrying about her having a child w/him while she was still legally married to me. I was, just not the way she thought. Had I realized when I confronted her about her behavior during the affair, that I was probably dealing w/a narcissistic whore who only cared about finding a more suitable partner for herself, in order to match her desire to excel in politics at the expense of her husband and children (honestly, we were all just holding her back), I would have realized that new children were the LAST thing in the world she wanted (see? So silly). And yes, she was 49, but you can still get pregnant at 49. It’s not likely, but it’s possible. Her answer to this was that he had already had a vasectomy years ago. Well, that just makes up for everything, doesn’t it?

      I made sure to make it clear that I had gotten a clean bill of health for EVERY possible STD from my doctor a few months post D-day. This came up when I had to tell it to the state health employee we were talking to a few months after she abandoned me because she had lost her job due to the affair. Of course, her partner and former boss kept his. He’s just irreplaceable, you see. My oldest daughter, who can’t stand him, did NOT like that fact.

      And since we had gotten our medical insurance through her for years, we were looking at applying temporarily for Medicaid for her, me, and the kids. Her health insurance was always just slightly better than mine for the last 5-10 years. And this was even when I was a healthcare professional! Go figure. You bet she was embarrassed when I said that thank God I was STD free in a loud, clear, carrying voice (there were others around us applying for Medicaid). Tough shit bitch, was what I was thinking.

      Songs have always helped me in dealing w/heartache (funny, the FW XW always thought that was stupid. Now I know why). Since the XW abandoned me, I’ve come up w/a playlist which includes the great song Evil Woman, by ELO, which is great for anyone dealing w/a female cheater. Although, just change the pronoun in your head and voila! The cheater’s of the male variety are covered! That’s why I also enjoy Fighter by Christina Aguilera, and many others written about male cheaters. Cheaters are available in all types of genders, as we all know.

      Whenever the XW acts like I’m treating her poorly by enforcing greyrock, or when she is confronted w/the shittiness of her actions like in the above story, I think of these lines from that song:

      Evil woman how you done me wrong,
      but now you’re tryin’ to wail a different song,
      Ha ha funny how you broke me up,
      You made the wine now you drink a cup…

      Sorry. Back to you, Luziana. You are truly Mighty for handling your ex giving you cervical cancer via HPV, and dealing w/the fact that he had an adultery baby. I don’t think I would have handled things NEARLY so well as you seem to have done. I hope your health is as good as can be now. I still feel the desire to kick your ex’s ass on your behalf. What a horrible person he is, and a total shithead. But then, all cheaters are, aren’t they?

      May you and your children have as much peace as possible from your FW XH, for as long as possible. Enjoy the fall, and if your kids are young enough, have a great Halloween w/them. You rock!

      • My cheaterpants XH was banging the OW who had just gotten out of a marriage to a pervert who had/has ads all over Craigslist and the Internet about being BI and his favorite thing is taking it up the ass. Eeeewwww. Yeah, what could cheater possibly pass on to unsuspecting me? So gross. They’re all a bunch of dog fuckers in my book.

      • TheLongRun – “I hope he gets some form of cancer (terminal) in the near future.”

        Bad JuJu, dear.

        • Mostly I’m just pissed at the money I’ve had to spend. Not a lot was covered by insurance. Unlike the Sluterus, who knows deep down the only tenuous hold she has on Cold Slab is the fact that one of his dusty geriatric sperm fertilized one of her dusky desperate eggs, i’m all for de-comissioning my mothership. SHUT IT DOWN.

          IT was really hard seeing babies for a while but I’m at meh. I miss my ex SD, but have no desire to engage with the longest running Free Love Bonobo Monkey Circus in North America. At the end of the day he chose to cheat and I chose to enforce that as a dealbreaker. I know from the few conversations I have had with people peripheral to their nonsense that they aren’t remotely financially secure or emotionally happy. The best part is, I don’t really care. I’m working on me and mine over here. The moment he chose to leave his key by the front door he became a stranger to me.

  • I became an expert on blocking. First I blocked him on facebook, which caused him to call me screaming, which caused me to stop answering his phone calls, but I didn’t block him yet because we have kids together and just in case an emergency happened. Then he sent emails to my work, block. Emails to my google mail, block. Videos to whatsapp, block. Weird texts to my phone that always ended with “till death do us part.” Of course, we were divorced and I was living with my now husband, so finally blocked his number all together. Not sure if he has given up or not, or what’s going on with him and I don’t care. No contact is total peace.

    • I like you. I biding my time til I can block him all together.
      I’ve blocked him on WhatsApp. He was shocked when I did.

  • I have the king of passive aggressive ultra covert narc ex.
    His ploy is to do,not say, things he thinks I have no choice but to respond to and engage with him on bc they involve our child.
    Withholding things in her school folder, stating that my nightly call w kiddo when she is with him needs to move to 750 and for me to let me know if it is a problem, but then refuse the call bc i didnt respond(bc I didnt have a problem), not scheduling follow ups w her therapist, etc.
    I’ve finally learned. Dont. Feed. The. troll. That’s what he is.
    I send fact based comms about that crap in OFW and then I figure out a work around.
    But I don’t engage in back and forth. I dont argue. When his panties get in a wad I remind him of the dispute resolution procedure in our parenting plan and invite him to start it.
    I’ve started adding a Thanks!!!
    To all correspondence.
    It’s the little things that get me through each day.

    • Covert Narcs are the worst. I’m only a month out from kicking him out & broke NC a couple weeks back when our dog got sick. He lured me back in to considering wreckonciliation again only to admit that he was also already seeing other women. It would be our 12 year wedding anniversary tomorrow so I’m gonna want to contact the Fuckwit. I’ve planned to spend the day with my sister in law who hates him. Even though I know he sucks I miss him terribly. I miss my life and the love I thought was mine forever. That he could date a week after we split is just agony. I thought he adored me.

      • Chumped Down Under,
        I am sending you a hug. I was devastated to learn that my husband had had affairs/sex with prostitutes almost from the day he met me (although I was loyal to him from the day I met him until months after he left me) and my last partner discarded me for his work subordinate, now second wife.

        • Thank you RockStarWife. Yours both sound like utter douchebags. How do you get through the early days? I still can’t believe that this is my life.

          • hi both and hugs. the early days are the most difficult. my solution was to pour into my work and do things for me I liked. taking care of myself physically helped my mental health. I exercised alot . joined yoga group, did volunteer work, took up a new sport, read alot, prayed, and cried. eventually I started to feel better. and as you can see I’m still here reading other peoples stories. I send you love. you deserve love and peace of mind. the only way to get there is to walk through the pain and be good to yourself every minute.

            • Chumpedownunder, Listen to thrive.
              It was hard for me to motivate myself to stay busy, but I was operating on nervous energy. Intense emotional upset kills my appetite.
              He will hurt you more if you allow it. Just trust that he sucks. You KNOW THIS.
              God bless you, Sweet girl

            • Thanks, Thrive and Chumped Down Under.

              Regarding grieving and coping with loss. I grieved the abandonment by my first boyfriend, who I met when I was 14 and he was 12, after several years together, for approximately 20 years.

              My first divorce attorney registered me for a support group for abused women. It was great! The group class lasted for approx. 10 weeks.

              When my last partner, post-separation boyfriend, abandoned me the first time, I exercised almost constantly, ate little, and teetered on the verge of anorexia, even as a fifty year old mother. I considered starving myself to death. Called a suicide hotline. The guy who talked to me in a sense talked me ‘down from the ledge.’ Getting back together with this boyfriend temporarily addressed my suicidal depression. Then this boyfriend started treating me badly again and finally permanently discarded me for his young work subordinate. I sometimes listen to Jack Kornfield podcasts and still generally exercise (lift weights, do cardio exercise, play tennis) a lot. I used to get fairly frequent counseling from professionals (mostly PhDs/PsyDs), but it didn’t really help and I ran out of money for it. Pharmacological treatment of various forms does not help. I wish that I could provide helpful suggestions, but I don’t think that I have any really helpful ones. I am an old, unemployed bitter, angry. sad, worried, depressed chump who still wonders, ‘What’s wrong with me?

              I wish you good health and happiness.

            • Thank you Thrive. I’m lucky I have a job I love & I ride my horse every chance I get. I also find it helpful to read my list of things in my life that I’m grateful for that he’ll never have. Like integrity & honesty as well as a job & a house. I’m very proud of myself for getting through the anniversary NC!

          • Don’t know if you have kids or if you are in the same house. But what Thrive says is important. You start organizing yourself, spend quality time with your kids, start some hobbies (I took guitar lessons and starting painting rooms in the house and rearranging furniture). Spend lots of time with the people who love you – family, friends. Build an awesome support system.

            Start journalling, typing, recording your memories, experiences and thoughts. You will look back on them and see how far you’ve come. Start a collection of memes and videos and articles that you find comforting (ie: clipping letters and comments here that you find useful).

            Finally, if you have the means, absolutely get yourself a counsellor, and put the kids in counselling too. It will do wonders to work things through, not just to heal from the damage the marriage caused but to see the whole course of your life past, present and future so that you realize that the marriage is not all your life has been and it’s not all that you are.

            Settle your separation/divorce so that those lose ends can be put to rest. Go no contact or at least grey rock if you have kids. And, then give it time. However long it takes. Learn to be with yourself. Find joy in yourself and loved ones and you achievements. Find peace within. Do not lose yourself in distractions and new “loves.” Learn to do YOU first.

            My husband always appeared to be a “good guy”. I had no reason to think that he supposedly never loved me. We had an ideal life from two very good families, faith-filled, went to church every Sunday. He was a decent dad. No one would have suspected that he was a cheater, and yet he did for over two years of our marriage (+ the discovery of years of regular porn watching before that). It’s a massive shock to the system to have your whole world rocked and the entire foundation of your marriage imploded. Often cheaters don’t just leave, they destroy the entire fabric of the marriage on the way out so that you call your sanity, your feelings, your memories and your experience of life with them into question. That needs to get worked out until you find your footing back under you.

            In a support group at my church for separated and divorced Catholics, they recommended a general guideline of time for healing to be at least one month for every year of the relationship. I have found that I needed more than that (15 years together + two kids). I’m 19 months out and I am finally feeling at peace. I see my life in blessings. I’m surrounded by many amazing supporters. I am loving being on my own. Maybe at some time I’ll open myself to dating (even just for fun) and a potential new love. But I don’t NEED it. My kids need me more.

            It will happen for you. Lots of self-care is in order. Indulge yourself.


            • Option No More,

              Thanks for sharing the tips.

              How did your church group come up with the magic formula of one month of healing for every year of marriage/relationship? I have mourned the loss of some of my three-month long relationships more than the loss of my decade-long marriage to the monster I married.

              • I don’t think that it was a set formula. It was a guideline aimed more at promoting the idea that it’s healthier for healing to wait before jumping into new relationships. Not meant to be a hard rule.

            • Thanks ONM. I so relate to what you’ve written, especially this:
              “Often cheaters don’t just leave, they destroy the entire fabric of the marriage on the way out so that you call your sanity, your feelings, your memories and your experience of life with them into question. That needs to get worked out until you find your footing back under you” that’s what’s so fucked up about this. I never realised I was with an abusive predator until now. But I’m now keeping his secrets anymore. His family& friends now know he’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Still feeling fragile but am now a bit more hopeful. NC IS the only way to get through this.

      • chumpeddownunder69,

        Give it time. The hurt will slowly fade, if you let it. At the risk of overemphasizing ELO’s Evil Woman lyrics in today’s posts, here’s the first few lines, and if you let them, they will slowly make sense to you:

        You made a fool of me,
        but them broken dreams have got to end…

        I know, it’s talking about a woman, speciifically. But keep the pronoun situation fluid in your head, because it’s really just talking about cheaters in general. That’s all we had w/these fuckwit cheaters. A broken dream. The hard part is accepting in your head and heart that your broken dream of a happy life w/the cheater has got to end, and be replaced by a new and better dream. Whether that’s a better partner in the future, or just learning to live by yourself for awhile, and enjoying that. Or both (probably not at the same time, but who knows?). I’d really recommend being on your own for a few years, to get in better touch w/yourself and your boundaries, if at all possible.

        When you’re comfortable w/yourself, and better love yourself for who you are, everyone says others will notice this, and it may even lead to a better partner finding you (or vice versa), because you will know what you will and will not accept from someone in a relationship. And that makes a hell of a difference going forward.

        Now, I haven’t gotten all the way there myself. I don’t want to misrepresent myself to you. But I’m roughly 2.5 years out from D-day, and roughly six months from being absolutely divorced. And though I’ve still got a lot of healing to do, I can see the logic in this advice that I was told as well. I can actually start to sense or feel how things are going to be better as I move away from thoughts of my XW and her treachery.

        Don’t get me wrong. Yesterday would have been my 27th “antiversary” w/the XW. It still hurt me to think about it, but there was much more emotional distance from the hurt than the previous two antiversaries. I cried last night, but only a very short and minimal amount. The previous two years? I cried throughout the day. Part of last night was sadness at her decision to just abandon me and our marriage, but a growing part is my anger at her decision, and how casually she and her fuckwit partner blew apart our family and did irreparable harm to our children.

        So, I’m a little further down the road from you, but not that far. I started to REALLY accept that my sadness stemmed from the fact that I still mourned the dream I had of a good life w/the XW. Well, that’s my broken dream, and I finally realized I had to end that dream. I’m about 90% of the way towards that way of thinking and feeling. It’s that 10% that keeps messing me up.

        But that’s down from the previous two years. I used to be only around 10% towards that way of thinking a year or two ago. Your mind and heart will change, if you let them. Again, give it time. For me, the more I read on this site enabled me to clarify my thoughts and feelings regarding the XW’s infidelity and my relationship w/her. Getting and reading CL’s book, “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life” was another milestone in my recovery.

        So, hang out w/your sister. Be kind to yourself. You were a whole, real person in your relationship w/the Fuckwit. He wasn’t. That’s why he’s able to date so quickly. Relationships don’t mean the same to him as they do to people like us. And that’s THEIR loss, you’ll come to realize. They have no clue what they’re missing, because they are fucked up.

        Sending you lots of hugs and encouragement across the miles. You are Mighty. You can do this. You will heal. And you’ll be an incredibly stronger person for it. And Fuckwit? That’s probably all he’ll ever be. My XW? That’s all she’ll probably ever be. I feel more pity towards her now, too. I’m told that will probably pass as well. When we get to meh, we just won’t give a fuck about them. Won’t that be nice?

        • That will be nice thelongrun. I’m looking forward to Tuesday. I had a good day with my sister in law. I felt heard & supported. It made the hurt lessen to realise that he really does suck & a lot of people including his family saw through the good guy facade. I bought LACGAL a couple of weeks ago & I’m rereading it. It’s fantastic.

      • Chumped down under, that sucks. Things do get better but i wont deny the early days are hell on a stick. Hang in there. ((Hugs)) My husband of 25 years went away for 2 months to Paris without me for ‘his’ long service leave in 2016. He refused to come back a few days early to celebrate Christmas with his family. Even me, chumpy mcchumperton herself, finally understood he actually didn’t want to come back at all and despised me. His horrible comment on a photo of me my son sent him on christmas day was the icing on my christmas shit cake. Fvck him. I left the day after he got back. Unit rented and furnished, check. My stuff packed and moved, check. New bank account, check. Lawyer engaged, check. New job, check. I found you can do an awful lot in 2 months. He continued to fire off occasional abusive texts and emails after 18 months though we had no face to face contact – so i blocked his phone number, set up a shared calendar for our son, emailed him the link and password and blocked him. Sooooo much better for me. Very freeing.

        • Wow you are mighty! What a POS your cheater was. They really do not have any empathy for anyone but themselves. And yes he’ll on a stick it surely is. But there are better days in amongst the shitter days so that’s progress

      • It’s my anniversary tomorrow, too. (would have been 17 years) We can stay strong together? I feel so much the same way you do. Hurt then angry. I want to be just angry.

        • Yes Chessnotcheckers, angry is easier to deal with but you need to get thru hurt too. Sorry you are going through this too. Anniversaries are hard. Hope you got thru it ok. Being with people helps. Big Hugs

      • chumpdownunder69 –
        some advice – go hard on the requests for divorce. do you have children? if so, there are so many things you should put in your divorce decree that i didn’t think about 1. because he cryingly promised he’d go without before me and the kids did, no matter what and 2. i was still holding out hope that we’d somehow, someway, get back together because I couldn’t believe this was really truly happening and my life now. He just barely gave up trying to win me back with words and some deeds WHILE off and on dating the affair partner at the same time. That’s because I let him say and do things but didn’t give in or change my boundaries (no other woman, pre-nup, more money in alimony, all things to show true remorse not fake remorse). he’d claim he’d done some, paid a little for a couple months… never the whole thing. So, I didn’t give in and I think the whole time subconsciously, even though I felt like I was in a bad dream that somehow I’d wake up from, I was slowly pushing forward towards the only outcome there could be, he and I not together, ever again. Hard words to write, hard thing to feel. I guess this is somewhat fake it til you make it. But you have to act like you’re not going to be together ever again even if you don’t feel it’s real yet. Financially you have to think strategically and logically. Look up advice from divorce attorneys on youtube, go to a financial planner, let me give you my list of what i wish i’d at least tried to get in the divorce decree.
        i’m happy to tell you the things my lawyer didn’t think of and i didn’t think of until two years post-divorce. it’s hard to think financially when we’re so destroyed emotionally but it’s the most important thing you can do for your future.

      • Always remind urself of their cruelty and how they enjoyed ur emotional pain. That’s what I do when I get sentimental or suck the hopium pipe.
        Much better narc free.

    • I say please and thank you on TalkingParents. While she is rude, demanding, or fact based. ????????????

      • Sirchumpalot,

        You’re a better man than me. I told the FW XW early on that I would be civil to her, but not cordial. No hellos, goodbyes, or anything like that. No how are you? I’m straight to business, and greyrock as much as possible. We only communicate through text and email, and that only sporadically. I’ve told her if she needs to talk to me on the phone or in person, it better be about something that seriously affects the welfare of our children.

        And since the older two are in their early twenties, it’s more likely to be about our almost 14 year old son. He’s pretty much the only reason I haven’t gone no contact w/her at this point. The poor kid is w/me two days, then w/the XW and her partner two days, then w/me for five days, then w/the two assholes for five days. He’s told me he prefers the back and forth so he gets to see both of us more often (as opposed to going to a seven days on/off schedule w/us). The two fuckwits live an eighth of a mile behind me, so at least he doesn’t have far to go between us.

        Best wishes to you and your children, Sirchumpalot. I’m w/you on the road to meh and peace from the fuckwits.

        • This is me. Civil. But that is not cordial. And maybe because i am in the south and he is the nicest most patient nice guy ever to everyone but me (and only flipped after dday) that people think i am a flaming asshole for not be chummy with exhole. As I type this he is at an ice cream social with my daughter at her school, the notification of which was removed from her school folder. And I am the asshole….

  • Oh the recent email concerning our teenage daughter not answering his texts or calls and his playing sad sausage eternal victim…again.

    So she’s 15. She is selective in answering him. Such is life when you leave your child suddenly for a shiny new family and then bring up someone else’s daughter and not your own. It was the bit at the end when he said it hurts him when we ( X and Bobbiechump) are both doing so much to support her that took all my power not to reply.

    In my head it was ‘Really? You call 5 hours in 2 months and cancelled visits at the last minute doing so much ? Are you that up your own backside that you dare to put us together in a sentence?

    Thought it- didn’t reply. I’m getting there but it’s bloody hard sometimes.

    • BobbieChump,

      You sound like you’re doing a great job. Keep on being Mighty! Your ex sounds like mine: a selfish bitch. My two older daughters told me last Easter that their mother accused them of not wanting her to be happy, since they’ve made it clear to her that they don’t like her arsehole partner (that’s for you, I’m American but an Anglophile). I felt an immediate urge to confront her over her immaturity, but I have resisted.

      All the best to you and your child (children?) in dealing w/the shit sandwich you were served by your ex. We’re all right there with you, and on your side.

      • Thank you thelongrun. After 2.5 years since he left and 1.5 since divorce I am finally learning not to bite back. It’s the best way but the hardest. But I am much calmer now I don’t have so much contact and am edging to Meh. I do hope you find the same for you.

  • Post-divorce, I set up OFW, thinking to blow through the items that needed doing per the settlement as quickly as possible. I figured a month or two, tops.

    But of course, no. Ex is the gift that relentlessly gives—if by “giving” one means bullying, gaslighting, baiting, and assorted lies—and it quickly became clear that the whole mess he made changed him not one iota. He was going to plow on with his usual tactics.

    Largely because of CL and CN, I instantly saw the manipulations in every word of his every OFW post (there’s no unseeing that stuff once you finally figure it out) and quickly deduced that this was not a gray rock, low contact situation.

    So everything that needs doing—always a lot, because only legal pressure keeps him sticking to the terms of the agreement—now flows through lawyers. Costs me some, but ultimately proves far less expensive than allowing his various schemes to continue unchallenged.

    One of many recent things was that he cancelled the children’s flex spending accounts. My DD discovered this when she went to pay for her prescriptions and found that she could not. Via his lawyer, idiot ex sent some rambling nonsense about how he couldn’t give the kids their insurance cards because the insurance company does not provide cards. Then, there was a long bit obout how the kids are old enough not to require my intervention. His lawyer then sent yet another long bit about how my kids are mature enough to manage things without me.

    Once upon a time, I would have risen to the bait and pointed out that, as the one most intimately involved in their respective births, I was well aware of their ages, thank you very much. I might have also pointed out that I use the exact same insurance provider, and have in my wallet the actual cards required to secure and pay for services. And that would have been a mistake—exactly the sort of red herring they want me expending energy on, to zero effect.

    Now that I know better, I went through my lawyer to get to the point: settlement requires that he maintain healthcare coverage for the offspring. Chronological age immaterial except insofar as it impacts the amount of time he must do so, per the agreement. DD received her card within the week.

    Many skirmishes remain—taxes, true-ups, property transfers—but I steadfastly chip away at the ones that can be permanently checked off, and am prepared for the ones that will be ongoing. Motion ever few months? Not a joy, but if that’s what it takes, then that’s what will happen.

    Best advice: pick a very good lawyer, and one you can work closely with over the long haul. With a certain flavor of cheater (think narcissist leaning distinctly toward sociopath), a completed divorce is far from the end. My guy is pretty much on permanent retainer, and worth every penny.

    Lesson learned: this is not a we grew apart, divorce hurts, but we can move on and be civil situation. Your truly dedicated lying, cheating, conscience-free abuser will carry on that way forever. Don’t let that person keep playing you. Just as importantly, don’t let anyone try chiding you for not being mature or cooperative. Once you know what you are dealing with, always proceed accordingly. Why they do such things does not matter a bit. Protect yourself, and leave it to a crack attorney (and accountant, if need be) to keep dragging that ex into the land of compliance.

    Bonus: this way, they can no longer skulk in the shadows, abusing you privately. When you force that asshole behavior into the light where everyone can see it, it is to your ultimate benefit. “I don’t have to provide for the kids per agreement because garbled nonsense about how you should stop mothering them” tends not to endear a cheater to a judge. Make them say that shit out loud, and then let your team respond accordingly.

    Short version: Post-divorce, remember that everything is strictly contractual. It ain’t personal, so never respond as though it might be.

    • This. Follow the decree. It is a court ordered document. At our last court meeting Ex tried to make it personal, but I walked away. Can’t engage anymore. It is a circular conversation. Onward!

    • Omgosh you are right on! It took a 1.5 years and 7 times in court just to get him to progress. A court date for him to see or turn over vehicles, a court date for him to be forced to sign with a realtor, then a court date to let them in to take photos the list goes on. I had to have the court hold his hand through everything. It was a long expensive and grueling UNFAIR process but I survived, my little one survived and is so happy, we both are.

      I am super good at the no contact. he tries to get a rise out of me especially when he tries to make me look like a bad mom. for ex. (texting me on a 90+ degree day telling me to make sure to put sunscreen on our little one and give lots of water) Seriously. I’m pretty sure when we were together I took care of our little on 99.8% of the time and know when I need sunscreen etc. I do not reply. I only reply (and in a business manner) to things I have to. Ie. dr. appt, school, etc. Other than that I could care less of what he thinks or what he does (as long as my little one is safe) .

    • Just took a photo of this post to remind me to follow it every day!
      Perfect advice thank you CASHMERE

    • Sorry cheaters suck so much Cash. I too barreled through my to do list, his? 18 months since divorce final and still trying. He finally got the message at our contempt of court hearing( caved right before) my lawyer presented him with the bill for me trying to get him to do what he signed for. My kids are grown and self supporting, the dick has found time to get married, buy a mansion, and take several trips abroad ( on the new wife’s $). No contact for me includes what you said…..forward to lawyer. Working on getting a life……’s slow.

  • I used to take calls or emails and it would escalate into a verbal tug of war. That how it was married and now broken up. So we’d fight and then he’d cry on skank face’s shoulder. So one day I was just in a mood and didn’t take the bait. I asked him ‘what was the matter – didn’t he have anyone to fit with today?” And that broke the cycle.

  • My daughter (almost thirteen) wants ZERO to do with her dad.

    Her therapist, my therapist, our former therapist, his therapist, AND.the mediator have all told him that the chances of her accepting the cheating accomplice are ZERO. All have told him that if he doesn’t break it off with the cheating accomplice, his chances of any kind of relationship with our daughter are ZERO.

    Of course we all know we can’t control what he does, but that kind of truth on the table in his face from all involved parties is enough for me. He has to choose between his daughter and the lower companion; he can’t have everything like he has been desperately force by continuing to lie and keep secrets and play games. I am relishing the stress this is putting on their play dates. My daughter is the trump card, the x-factor that he can’t control and manipulate, that blindsided him.
    Their party is getting pooped all over and I haven’t had to open my mouth or lift a finger.

    Last night I was overcome by a feeling of inner peace and happiness. Could I be nearing Meh?

    The winning score is ZERO.

    Game. Set. Match.


      • Further clarification….

        The play dates and party that are getting stress and poop refer the Cheater and the cheating accomplice, I am not, and will
        never be OK with what this has done to my daughter. It seemed unclear when I read back over it….

    • This is so great to hear, VH. DD very much presents as very wise for her age, and someone who won’t take any shit from the unauthentic. Take that as a compliment to your influence of her.

  • I live overseas from my adult children and was heading for my daughter’s wedding when my son dropped off the radar but I figured we’d catch up when I got there.

    At the wedding he was nowhere to be seen. My best friend went on a mission to find out what was going on because it had obviously been kept secret from me. Before the ceremony she was back with the info that he was in hospital, plus the rumour going around that I’d abandoned him and didn’t deserve to know.

    I was already prepared for ‘anything’ and nothing could spoil my enjoyment of her day and my ex got madder and madder as time passed and I’d said nothing. My friend caught him glaring at me and so did I once and it didn’t bother me. I even smiled.

    Near the end as people began to leave, he growled at me and my guy that it was time to go, at which point my daughter and her stepmother (not the affair partner) engaged me in conversation and invited me to a wedding breakfast the next day.

    Had a marvellous time, laughed with my guy about my ex’s various machinations to ruin it for me.

    Son was happy when I found him and visited. Fortunately I happened to be staying near the hospital.

  • Cheater wanted to throw his (new house/new wedding ring?) in my face year after divorce.

    On Valentines Day, he sent me the following;
    “In my packing haste, I accidentally took one of your muck boots and left one of mine behind. Can we meet up to exchange?”
    On Valentines Day?!? Mismatched POOP BOOTS?!?!

    Ignored. He sent same week later…. Sent same week after… week after.

    I guess he did get a reaction, after the 3rd or 4th email, I did reply;
    “Meh, I don’t think it’s a good idea.”

    Never even opened another……

  • My ex goes through on again off again interest in our son. When he’s seeing some skank who doesn’t want kids around he pays him no attention, when he’s working to get in some mom’s pants he’s all about “his boy”. It’s cruel to ds but I’ve slowly learned to be matter of fact about it. I don’t know what is up with dad buddy, you will have to ask him.

    I was proud of myself for not reacting when he brought his latest (nice lady I feel sorry for her) to ds’s MRI appointment. Who does that? Whatever. I just ignored them both and focused on MY boy.

  • I told xhole that I never wanted to hear from him again. He pretty much honored that request except in the early days when there was something divorce related (he was too busy with schmoopie). Once he realized that I wasn’t going to respond, the texts stopped.

    A couple of years later, I learned from the kids that xhole had cancer. My response to them was the “that’s a bummer” line and they didn’t share any details about his health. One day out of the blue, I receive a text from xhole celebrating that he received a procedure that would surely cure him and how he was the only person in which the procedure had been successful.

    My reply…crickets. I know the xhole and I know his ego. The silence was much more effective than any reply I may have wanted to send. Silence (no contact) is golden.

    • i only wish i did the same when the sperm donor for my daughter (not the man i married/divorced but before him) supposedly had cancer 8 years ago when she was 14. i foolishly reached out to him. and allowed him to come visit my daughter believing he would be dead in a year. .. .. . the whole thing was a lie, and now that he has seen my daughter he has integrated himself in her life. fucker denied her when i was pregnant, then threatened to take her away but in all actuality he abandoned her before she was even born. and the threats were just to scare me. he ignored her all her life, never once calling or asking about her, never once sending a card or gift for birthdays or christmas, never once acknowledging that she existed.. .. .. .. oh i wish i had left it like that.

      after i reached out to him and allowed his visit, he has worked hard to separate and come between my daughter and i. the past 8 years he has wormed his way into her head with lies and falsities about me, her mom. .. .. in fact today, she is driving 8 hours away to catch a plane in dallas to go visit him for 2 weeks in Ohio. i could care less if she goes but she is dragging my 2 grandchildren with her. Poor sweet babies. 8 hour car drive and then air flight. my heart is breaking and i am physically sick with worry. this girl cant even go to the bingo/arcade with the 2 babies and not lose her purse. i also feel so betrayed by my daughter. but i havent said a word to her or her sperm donor.

      this man literally sat there on my couch, holding my sobbing 14 year old daughter, watching her cry her eyes out because he told her he would be dead in a year and wanted her to sing at his funeral. literally sat there and forced my daughter to make funeral arrangements for him when he KNEW it was all a lie. who does that. this man also has 9 other children that have nothing to do with him after his cancer lie. only my daughter is “giving him a chance” (most likely because he is sending her 3000 dollars at a time and buying her tvs, tv stands, tablets for the babies and all sorts of shit.) then again, she is just like him, a little narc in training. they feed off each others lies. she tells him how much i abused her when she was little, how i locked her in her room and never let her eat, how she had to do all the cleaning and none of her siblings ever did anything, how i threw her down and kicked her, etc etc.. .. .and he tells her how i wouldnt let him see her, how he sent me money, how i just couldnt get over him, and i tried to get him fired from his job. etc. etc.

      i only fear for my grandchildren. this daughter is not a good mother (or person for that matter). i will be on pins and needles until they get back safely. as for my daughter, it wouldnt bother me if she moved to Ohio. as long as she left the kids here. sometimes i wonder if i should help her exhusband get sole custody of the grandkids. only i dont think he would allow me to see them. I believe in my heart that people who lie about having cancer are the worse kind of maggots. You are amazing and mighty!!!!! I learned the hard way to keep my silence.

  • Great advice, Cashmere.
    About a month before Asshat vomited out his ILY…Y speech, an article ran in our local rag with a quote on how much he valued family, time with the kids, and how “supportive” of his activities his wife (me) was. Not a month later another article appeared online waxing poetic about his upcoming nuptials with his partner of many years, apparently the man had been courting OW for a while and his rec friends were totally unaware of his family. Had to laugh out loud. When he quickly married OW, after dragging his feet 2+ years through our divorce and crapping all over our finances, I told my kids “attend” because that was about the funniest thing of all. Mind you, it took me a while to heal from the illusion of “our happy marriage,” but I could see right away that they deserved one another.

  • My ex used the weapon of silence and complete stonewalling, ensuring I knew nothing about him in marriage. He continues to do so apart from a few generic love letters that each of his lovers would have received. So I do not talk to him ever. And I never will. When communication becomes necessary I already have appointed someone to talk to him. The foul narc he is, I doubt he cares.

    • Yep, a bit of gaslighting and then stonewalling forever. I found out who OW was when kids found evidence. I only know the tip of the iceberg- he references his alternative lifestyle to the kids – he thinks he is a real sexy badass at 52. The cold callous stare down is what I received after 25 years of marriage where I thought we were in love. I am pretty NC but I have to contact him soon about finalizing divorce – separation agreement already signed. I hate having to contact but it is necessary. “He is just somebody that I used to know”. Moving on.

  • His text, “You were never a pretty woman and not even decent in bed.” My response, “You don’t seem very happy. Is divorce not delivering the rainbows and unicorns you expected?”

    • This is exactly what I think everytime he launches another petty attempt to get a reaction out of me.
      What’s wong sad sausage? Is howorker not giving you enough attention and still with her husband and my kickass life irritating you?

    • What a great response, BetterEveryDay. Simple, not nasty, but still made the point. He wanted his life free of you? What’s your problem then, asshole? Your wish was granted, and you’re still not happy? Too bad, fuckwit. Just because he’s a narcissist who wants attention good or bad for kibbles (probably), doesn’t mean it’s going to work that way.

      When my FW XW walked out of what was our house (now mine), to leave me and our marriage behind, and I was pleading w/her to give me another chance to earn back her love (Oh, yes. Those early days were full of the pick-me dance), she told me, “You’re going to have to learn to live w/out me.” And damn it all if she wasn’t right! Just not the way she thought.

      Did I mention the FW also wanted me to admit shortly after leaving me that she was a good wife to me for 24.5 years? I was starting to wise up a little bit at that point, and my answer was a simple, “No, you weren’t.” Shocked her, would you believe it? I don’t think she understood, or will ever understand that when you fuck over your husband w/an affair, refuse to even try to reconcile, instead telling a marriage counselor how you’d held resentments against your husband for the last TEN TO FIFTEEN YEARS of your marriage without giving him a chance to address your problems w/him, and are selfish enough to blow the family apart in the process, you don’t get a gold star for being a wife. Even if she had been a saint before then, which she absolutely was not, she just threw any chance of getting me to agree to that out the window by her treacherous

      I’ve figured out that my life is so much BETTER w/out her. As for her? She’s found out that the kids don’t like her POS partner, despite all his money and influence, and many people now know what a POS, adulterous wife she was to me.

      Not a good situation for a narcissist politician who’s worth is tied up in keeping up appearances that make her look good (my educated guess as to what’s wrong w/her. At the very least some kind of personality disorder). And when she wants me to support any of her bullshit behavior around the kids? Those words of hers always come to mind. You’ll have to learn to live w/out me, bitch.

      Good for you, BetterEveryDay. Keep on being Mighty. Best wishes for you (and your family?) in the future.

      • That third paragraph should have ended w/the word “actions.” Sorry, I was have internet connectivity problems and in rebooting and all, lost track of finishing that statement. Carry on.

        • *having internet connectivity problems*

          Sorry, still can’t get things right. Carry on carrying on.

      • Thelongrun:
        Thanks for sharing. That whole ex was unhappy but didnt say anything and wont even talk about fixing it and the MC is literally speechless at the sudden turn of events is exactly what happened to me. Your and all of CNs sharing of this deeply personal trauma really helps us all realize it isnt us. Thx again.

        • Ragingmeh,

          Thank you. It seems I’ve made it my day to weigh-in.???? I want to make it clear, though, that I went into marriage counseling w/the XW w/both the female marriage counselor she requested and myself knowing that the XW had no intention of reconciling. In the words of my former private psychologist, the XW had already “severed the relationship” by the time I confronted her about her affair behavior. I was just so lost and hurt that I was playing the pick-me dance HARD for at least those first two months after the XW abandoned me and our son at our house.

          The marriage counselor listened to her go on for about 45 minutes out of our hour-long session, where the XW detailed many (but probably not all) of the things she’d held against me over the years (which included me getting her pregnant w/our youngest, our son. That’s a WHOLE other story, but rest assured, she was not forced in any way to have sex w/me. Never did force her to have sex w/me, and never will w/any other woman. If anything, she forced me to have sex w/her, odd as that may sound). Anyway, I think the counselor wasn’t surprised about the no reconciliation part. It was the length and breadth of all the resentments that she held against me that she had a hard time taking in.

          When she had finished the long list, the marriage counselor turned to me and said, “Are you hearing this?” And I said yes, I was hearing it, I was accepting it, but what good does that do if she’s not even interested in reconciling? And she nodded and looked at my XW and said, “I’m running into this a lot w/women your age” (she was 49). She told her “you’re strong, you’re independent…” and I see the XW nodding her head. Then the counselor said, “What I don’t hear is that you ever told your husband you weren’t happy.” That’s when I started nodding MY head.

          She told us that we would have to try to learn from the pain. She told us that in any relationship that means something to you, whether it’s a friend, lover, spouse, or whatever; you have to tell that person bluntly what your problem w/them is, not once, but at least twice, and ideally three times. Anything less than that, she said, is expecting mind-reading, and none of us are good at that. I’ve added to that idea that I think you should also give the other person some idea of how you see the problem getting fixed. But for God’s sake, at least say something bluntly, instead of the cryptic passive-aggressive shit I now realize she was giving me for years. That she felt was a valid form of communication w/me. I was totally head-over-heels in love w/her for all the time we were together, and at the very least I don’t think she realized that I viewed her comments through the years in a very different light than she meant, because she wasn’t BLUNT about them, and because I was totally viewing them w/rose-colored glasses on. Which she claimed she never did w/me. Such a wonderful person. But that was bullshit too, because she at least had them on in the first few years. Rewriting history, like many of them love to do.

          And I’m not sure I even buy that excuse for what she thinks was communication w/me about her problems w/me, that supposedly led her to want to leave me. I think when I left my high paying job because I was close to a nervous breakdown, and went into a deep depression following that, and we had to struggle, she decided I wasn’t keeping up appearances well enough for her. I wasn’t a perfect husband, but I loved her well and truly, and was completely faithful to her (who the hell is a perfect spouse? It doesn’t exist!). So her rich, politically powerful, MARRIED FOR 40 YEARS boss comes on the scene, and she claims she fell in love w/him from Day 1! Yeah, I’m calling bullshit on that.

          Add to that she had no problem becoming the OW, and him becoming the OM. Both of them make me sick. Ok, sorry Ragingmeh, it appears I had to get that out of my system as well.

          I hope you are doing well on your path to meh. Best wishes to you and your family, and thanks for listening to my rants.

          • You are welcome. And because of what you said, I feel the need to respond, again even though you dont need it bc it sounds like you ve done the hard work we al have to do. Like you, I was working a high paying high stress partner track job. I was terrified of having a child bc of the abuse and neglect I experienced with my mother. I saw how children impacted even the best marriages. The women on both sides of my family have a history of depression, specifically post partum. We talked about ALL of this. For 12 years before I finally thought, ok we can do this.
            6 months after my daughter was born as I am completely losing my milk and my partner group is ignoring everything they promised and i am asking for, post partum swallows me for a year.
            We got through it and when the right drug was found i recovered almost overnight. But nothing was the same after.
            But even before then, we talked about things, checked in on how we were feeling……not a hint of the resentment that allegedly was building for years.
            About 6 months after my recovery I suggested MC just to help w our communication and revisit our relationship. MC met w each of separately and then together, said it was clear we loved each other deeply and had the basis of a very strong marriage and just needed some help with communication in our new normal post baby which was 100% normal.
            My point to all that, no decision made, no comm made to me or anyone before he started his friendship w howorker EVER indicated any sort of major problem. And he was directly asked, repeatedly.
            He has rewritten our history in true covert narc fashion.
            But the point to all this which it sounds like you have already gotten to dor yourself is this: even if I am wrong and he was unhappy the whole time, that does not excuse his absolutely horrible treatment of me at the end and for every day since. Nothing I did, nothing he felt excuses dehumanizing me and trying his best to put me on the ground never to get back up. That is what happened, several people saw it, and he is a coward. I think you know this, but she is a coward too; it wasnt you.

  • I soon sent him divorce papers ( at the ow’s home being he was there all the time) after I had enough & discovered them together. Unfortunately I had him live in the basement until legally force him out which took 9 horrific months. Went no contact to this day which is 3 years.
    Slandering me without my knowledge years before discovery even telling our adult son I tried to poison him, slept with other men, stole money and gave oral sex to men I knew. Everything was a horrible lie but he had to look like a victim & me the cause of his fucking around with the Owhore for 2 years. Karma hit him when last year she died then he immediately moved into another woman’s house.
    So evil ???? Wasted 34 years married. Sad ????

    • I don’t have absolute proof, but I am sure that XAss covert narc slandered me for years behind my back. I am sure he has told my son all sorts of projection-filled lies about why I left and divorced him. I’ve told my now 15 yr old that if he ever wants to know why I left his father, all he has to do is ask me. Meanwhile I just walk my walk and try to be the best I can be. If my son can’t see how my behavior is opposite to the lies that XAss told about my behavior then no denial I can make will matter. I know my son loves me. And that is all that matters to me.

    • Again. Oh. My. God. Where do these assholes go to learn how to act like this? It’s unbe-fucking-lievable. I’m so sorry you had to deal w/him, Kathleen. Gives a bad name to the rest of us faithful and loving husbands out there. Dragging the kid in like he did? What a shit he is.

      I hope you and your children are in a much better life now. You deserve to win the lottery or something.

      • the long run
        Thank you for your kind & encouraging words
        It’s true there are decent faithful men out there but I
        obviously didn’t chose one. I may be lonely & financially strapped but at least I’m not being mentally tortured or cheated on.
        Good luck to you ????

        • Hey, I didn’t choose a decent, faithful woman, either. We’re all in this boat together. Don’t beat yourself up. They took advantage of us. There’s no shame on us. It’s them that has to be ashamed.

          Good luck to you, too, Kathleen. Always.

  • I still get gift cards from the Worm every Christmas to stores where I don’t shop.
    He gets crickets. Sending them back, which I am tempted to do, would be giving him attention.
    Happily, that is all I can come up with because he knows he’s wasting his time contacting me.

  • I had a very hard time keeping CL and all the calm and collected CNs in my head when I’d interact with exfuckwit. I would lose it and hope to win some intellectual battle of wits that left him and his AP withered and beaten. That never happened. They flaunt their “love”. They have won over his family and our 21 years together may as well have not happened. She’s having a baby!! In fact, my kids joined in the fun with them for the first months after he finally introduced them to his AP. They shamelessly brought our kids and her kid from the marriage she blew up while my ex blew up ours. I couldn’t stop throwing out little jabs, witty retorts to texts from him, blasting them. And then I stopped. I am 6 weeks no contact. My lawyer dealt with his delinquent child support. I just stopped. Meanwhile, my girls saw her for who she is, and him for how he is. My eldest came back to me and told me how sorry she was for being so callous. She told me she is making herself get excited about the baby half-sister because “those two are so irresponsible, they’ll probably call on me to babysit.” My youngest told me she is trying to figure out how to tolerate them so that “poor kid doesn’t end up a victim of their selfishness”. So they didn’t get away with it. They didn’t end up looking shiny and happy to everyone. And it would have taken a lot less time for me to reach this point if I HAD JUST LISTENED TO CHUMP LADY FROM THE START…I mean really listened and followed her advice.

    • madkatie63,

      As I said to Kathleen, don’t beat yourself up. You’re did the best you could given a horrible situation none of us expected to be in. When we said our vows and made our promises, we meant them. The fuckwits didn’t. And at least you’re where you need to be now. No contact. It’ll get easier from here. Just stick w/it. It can be blissful.

      Sending lots of hugs, sympathy and empathy your way, and for your kids as well. It sucks for the kids, too.

  • For me, no contact was a way to really think about what wasn’t right from the beginning. Reevaluation was easier when there was no one screaming how wrong I was. It was hard at first simply due to the overwhelming urge to make myself understood. Now, I dont care who understands.

    Bit worried though, ex wants to see his son after almost three years of no contact with him. He says he’s going to pick him up saturday 1 to 4. How do I prep this child for something that might not happen and that I half don’t want to occur. Am I evil for that thought? And how do I protect my son when he cant communicate his worries to me? Ugh (my son is nonverbal and autistic)

    These hoes out here….

    • You should do what is best for your son and legally right. Does he have legal access to your son after being NC with hin for 3 years? Do you think it is good for your son? If he has legally no access, then say that you need to think and decide on what is right for your son. Kudos for taking care of your disabled son with love.

      • I always have a hard time getting these under the right thread. Hope I get this right. I have a mid spectrum 12 year old autistic son. I have been told by some professionals and a mother of a very high functioning autistic child that went through a divorce that the autism does insulate them somewhat. My general observation is that the divorce has been harder on my typical 15 year old daughter than my autistic son. You know yiur son best.

    • “For me, no contact was a way to really think about what wasn’t right from the beginning. Reevaluation was easier when there was no one screaming how wrong I was.”


      Removing yourself (or kicking them out) from the premises and evicting them from your head finally provides you the mental space to think and re-evaluate.

    • Be careful. He is most likely just using is son to see if he can get some kibbles from you. After 3 years it seems unlikely that this is about his son. Especially with a narc.

    • if there is no court order for him to visit the child, i would not allow it. after 3 years, i believe you can apply for abandonment. and terminate his rights but you would have to talk to a lawyer.

      there is no reason for you to comply to his request after 3 years if there is no court order. let him take you to court for visitation.

      Good Luck

    • I hope this will be a supervised visit. No contact for 3 years, and your son is non-verbal? Supervised visit only. You have no idea what he is going to do with your son, or who he is going to expose your child to, he may even be plotting to take your son away from you. Be very careful, and tell him if he wants to see his son, he can go to court and get supervised visitation or nothing at all.

      • That was my immediate thought. That he might be interested in taking your son. Three years and nothing, then suddenly he’s all ready to interact w/your son? Sounds very shaky. If you don’t feel you can rebuff him outright, is there any chance you change it to a supervised visit, as was suggested?

    • DemHoez – Absolutely do not allow this to happen. I have a son who is autistic as well, and I’m about to give you some tough love that was given to me.

      Wake up! You have a responsibility to your son’s needs first. You do not put your son in the care of someone who does not understand his needs. A person who has not seen him in three years would not understand his needs. Would you leave your son with someone for the afternoon who does not know him and has no training in meeting his challenges? Probably not. So why would you agree to this.

      Just because this man is his father does not give him the right to prance in and take him somewhere for the afternoon. The fact that his father made this request without first introducing himself to the child, asking questions about what his needs are and learning the strategies to best manage those needs is evidence that he is clueless about how to care for a child with a disability.

      And you are not holding this man accountable, which means that you are not doing your due diligence in protecting your son by ensuring that he is with people at all times who have experience with him and an understanding of how to manage things. Consider this your smack upside the head. Your failure to put your son’s needs first and shout it from the mountaintop as his primary caregiver and advocate for his special needs can come back to bite you in court.

      I understand how much is at play that is messing with your head. You want to be “nice” and “fair” to your ex. Play “by the rules”. Appear reasonable. You don’t want to look like a bitch. The same happened to me when my ex demanded 50/50 and my son completely derailed because his system couldn’t manage so many transitions in sleeping between two homes. The social worker at the agency that was providing my son’s ABA therapy gave me the cold, harsh wake up call that I’m trying to give you. So, I will reiterate the words she told me:

      “Stop it! Wake up! This is about your son first! You are his primary caregiver with year of experience in understanding what his challenges and gifts are and your finger on the button of what his triggers might be with the strategies to cope with it. Your husband is only thinking of himself and what he wants. He does not care about his son in the way that your son needs to be cared for. It is your responsibility to protect your son and demand the best care by anyone who is ever in contact with him. This is not about being nice. It is about what is fair for your son and his well-being.”

      Yes, your son deserves to have a relationship with his dad. But, you need to ensure his safety and well-being. As soon as you let this man just take your son without first getting to know him and being trained to meet his needs, you are setting a terrible precedent. A judge may question why you would be so lax in letting a boy who cannot communicate go off with someone who is now a practical stranger to him after three years.

      It took me two months, with the aid of a family counsellor specializing in autism, to convince my ex to change he access he had with the kids so that my son was sleeping at home with me on school nights to maintain consistency. I was able to avoid taking my ex to court this way but it took far too long. My nine year old son was self-harming (hitting himself in the face and head), screaming that he wished her were dead, blaming me for making him be born, having meltdown in his class at school which resulted in three classroom evacuations in one month, crashed a chair repeatedly over his head in school, shut down all participation in school (which took months to get him back on track). My son has Aspergers, is intellectually high-functioning and verbal and this is how much he suffered. I can’t imagine if his needs were even greater.

      I was almost going to file an emergency order in court, but luckily my ex came around to reason. As soon as we changed the overnights so that the kids were sleeping at home (I kept the marital home and kids in the same school) 4/5 school nights, my son immediately improved. No more calls to pick him up at school, no more evacuations, no more self-harming. It took a long time to get him participating in school and calming down the behaviours that flaired (oppositional behaviours), but he coped better over all.

      His father still sees him seven days of every 14 days, so he gets them half the days. He just doesn’t get them for half the nights anymore. He hated this because it put him in a child support position (I found a loophole to work around this to put his mind at ease because I don’t need his child support and I outearn him anyways – this settled him down). A couple of times my ex has challenged this in conversations, but my lawyer has assured me that courts will not allow a schedule to be changed for a child with a disability when it’s shown that the child is thriving with the current schedule, especially when a change before was shown to be a disaster.

      The other reason why you would stand every chance in court in maintaining you custody and placing strict parameters around how your son’s father interacts with him, is because you have all the evidence that you are the primary care-giver of all his needs, you have the education and experience. Your ex has none. It is imperative that a child with autism maintain consistent structure and routines. Your ex has no idea what these are so he can’t just go off with him at whim. My ex does none of the leg work with my son’s disability and maintains few of the structures at his place. However, because my son spends evening with his dad, I am able to manage getting him back on track when he gets home so that things work out pretty well at school for him. I try to talk reason with my ex, but he often lies that he’s doing what he’s supposed to do in his house (and sometimes he does inconsistently). I just pick my battles. My son is getting older and can better manage these inconsistencies. I just keep documenting in case my ex starts chirping about access again.

      Stand your ground on this. Put your son first. He needs to you to protect him and advocate for his needs. Sure, his father can meet him. Supervised, gradual. His father needs to get educated and demonstrate that he can detect triggers and have strategies to handle things. Make him get educated and trained. He likely won’t last but at least you protected your son.

      Big hugs to you. You are amazing. You are the parent that stayed. It’s hard being a single parent. It’s especially hard to be the single parent of a child with a disability. I hope that you are surrounded by a great support system and that your son is thriving. Don’t let anyone mess with that, no matter who they are.

  • No contact truly is the path to truth and light. But like every worthwhile, and therefore difficult, endeavor, it requires training.

    I had to train both myself and him.

    While we were in the process of divorce, I trained him by not replying to his blatant appeals for sympathy or his attempts to hoover me by means of flattery (which were, I decided, merely attempts to manipulate me into a better settlement for him). I adhered strictly to the principles of the gray rock response; I never responded to any expression of his feelings or an attempt to elicit mine, only to whatever item of business he was ostensibly contacting me for.

    I trained myself with two strategies. One: When whatever he’d said would set me off, I’d write out long responses, for myself. This helped me think through his bullshittery. Two: a friend of mine was so generous with her support, and would let me vent. (I later paid her back for this by suggesting strategies that helped her negotiate a dynamite retirement package.)

  • My ex’s bait was uttered during a couple weeks of false reconciliation, during a session with our pastor. He tried to get me to promise not to “tell anyone.” I was like “If it comes up, you better believe I’m not going to lie to cover any of this up. I don’t have to suffer alone.” He said “Oh yeah well if you tell anyone, I’ll tell everyone about _____!” [insert false equivalency mistake from my past] I said “Ha okay, go and tell anyone you want. I have nothing to hide, I’m an open book, and I’ll tell anybody who asks.” Our pastor at the time was silent for a while, then said “I think you need to stop threatening your wife.” A few days later when I found evidence that ex was continuing to pursue OW, this was just one more thing that pushed me over the edge out of an entire mountain of mistreatment over years and years. It was really hard to finally be done, until it was really easy.

  • During the separation and early days after the divorce, he’d insert friendly banter and questions in emails about closing accounts, or write carefully worded descriptions of things he knew I cared about, designed to charm me into being his friend. I ignored him and he went away.

  • I am glad that doing No Contact with abusive ex-spouses is helping chumps. My story is different. Two years since my last partner left me for his work subordinate (now second wife), I have heard nothing form last partner. (He almost immediately went No Contact on me, although he had said for nearly 30 years that we were friends.) Although he frequently emotionally abused me (in a covert narc kind of way) and, looking back, I realize that our relationship was awful in a lot of ways, no matter how hard I tried to make it beautiful, I am still not free of the pain that came with this relationship and my current status in life (down and out), which partly resulted from his abuse and abandonment of me. I stuck around for bad treatment, and although he is permanently gone, I am still emotionally ‘stuck.’

    • you are not stuck, you are grieving. it is a process and it takes its own time. I hope you have someone to talk to or are seeing a counselor. as I said above, it helped me to take care of myself like I would a hurt friend or sister. I did nice things for myself, joined groups. hugs

      • Hi Thrive,

        Thank you for your very supportive response. I wish you much peace and happiness.

        • I recommend reading the book “Stuck why we can’t or won’t move on” by Anneli Rufus. It helped me see where my own patterns were keeping me stuck in the same negative space.

    • Rockstarwife,
      You offered me some great advice, shared your story about your many horrible court trials and tribulations with your ex, and offered good support to me during my wreckage period of separation with my STBXH.

      You are stronger than you think. You are a badass. You are grieving and trying to get yourself together. It won’t last forever and I thank you for your energy during a time I needed to not be alone. You are not alone ((Hugs)).

      I personally think some personal development reading would do you some good. You are a badass is a good one to start. I’m listening to warrior goddess training right now.

      The only thing that asshole can’t touch anymore now that he is gone is how you move forward. I know you can do great things. I’m going to copy a poem below that touched my heart recently as I still middle through the emotional rubble of feeling stuck in many ways. Sending love and light. Thank you for being here

      • You aren’t stuck
        you’re just not there
        quite yet.
        You aren’t what you’re
        going through,
        not the trials or tribulations,
        you aren’t the failures
        or the exhaustion
        you feel.
        You aren’t the broken down
        or the battered,
        you are beyond
        what you’re enduring,
        you’re bigger than those
        that try to break you.

        You’ll get there,

        whole, though there
        may be fractures.

        You’re not stuck,
        and your story is not

        -Tyler Knott Gregson-

  • I’ve been divorced 10 years. Spent 5 years “no contact’. Let my guard down and entertained the I’m sorry bit and fought the attempt at forced friendship for 4 years until I went no contact again for the past year due to an attempt at making me the other woman to the man I was married to for 30 years who divorced me to marry his co-worker. When I refused to participate, it turned ugly. Posted horrific untruth’s and vile material on every social media site available. The vengeful text messages I received (also some to our children) were nothing short of being spectacularly awful. Never saw this side of him in the 30 years we were married. Not sure if it was hidden or if something just snapped.

    • Thanks, this is a great message that no contact is a for life thing with a disordered person. We try to project our decency onto them and it gets used against us. Thank you for your post.

  • This is kind of “gray rock related.” This is about a previous marriage (not the cheater) and is more about being unruffled no matter what. But my “no reaction” approach still hits some of the same high notes as gray rock:

    We were recently divorced, and with no notification he often showed up hours late — or not at all — when it was his time for child visitation. After several times of cancelling my plans because of his manipulative or thoughtless whims, I got tired of his unpredictability still affecting my life. So one time I hired the teen next door to watch my toddler daughter so I could continue with my plans for the evening (painting the living room), even though he was supposed to have visitation. I planned on paying the teen regardless.

    When he showed up two hours late, I told him calmly that he had two choices: He could pay the babysitter for a FULL night’s work and then take our daughter for visitation, or he could sit at my house and visit with his child. He still have access to his daughter, but there were consequences, in other words.

    He was baffled and asked why I had a babysitter in the first place. I told him, with what I hope was a calm infuriating smile, “Because I stopped having to put up with your bullshit when we divorced. You don’t get to change my plans anymore.”

    He was so verklempt that he wordlessly left. He apparently stewed for an hour or so and came back just to visit briefly with our child. His inconsideration was less of a problem after that, though.

    (It’s worth noting that our divorce paperwork stated that he was to have “reasonable” visitation rights, and there was no specificity as to who decided what was reasonable. So I decided that the decider was me.)

  • A year or so after our divorce, and completely out of the blue, he texted me, “I should have added LOL to the end of our marriage vows.” It took me a few minutes to understand what he meant, and wow, I admit, I felt suckerpunched by that one. Which of course was what he intended. I did not reply.

    Around a year ago, completely out of the blue, I received a text from him that was the single word “Sad” attached to the obituary for a local veterinarian. This was a vet we took our cat to one time around 20 years ago. No idea what the point was, other than to contact me, I guess. I did not reply.

    There were dozens of others, but those are the shortest and easiest to write about.

    • Wow Glad, the dancing blue yeti still doesn’t get it does he!! Wish he would just piss off and leave you alone!

  • Two incidents stand out in my mind:
    1. Getting a text message the month before the divorce was final about how he finally understood how much pain he put me through…blah…blah… blahnik. Many chumps have heard this one before, especially when Schmoopie dumps the cheater, as what happened here. I didn’t respond at all, just left the text on “read.”

    2. I began dating again and have started getting serious about someone else. The cheating ex-husband apparently ran a full background check on my boyfriend and decided to text me about how the boyfriend is a horrible criminal that he doesn’t want around the kids because…wait for it…. My boyfriend, who is a special education teacher, had a DWI 20 years ago, when he was 18. I could have gone off about how I didn’t want the kids around the ho-worker while we were married or him dragging the kids to a bar to watch his ho-worker play a guitar, but I held back. Instead, I just calmly told the ex that I already knew about that and he’s more than welcome to pick who the kids hang out with on the 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekends of the month when he has custody.

  • I had to learn that No Contact wasn’t only never talking to my ex again but also not talking to people who know him. Which was hard because he’s very well known in the part of the city we both come from and involved with a lot of different organizations and community groups. It’s near impossible to go anywhere or do anything close to home without running into a friend of his. And like most disordered fuckwits, he has an army of flying monkeys out there too. So I started socializing farther from home and getting more involved with groups that he was never a part of. It’s a good sized city so there’s room to live a full social life and still avoid him and his flying monkeys. It’s a challenge though because he’s one of those people who likes to be seen everywhere (if there was a popular event or popular place to go or popular group to be involved with anywhere in the city he was there being seen and laying on the charm). I have seen him in passing a handful of times around town, but he’s never approached me.

    Online it isn’t so easy though. He doesn’t have to be himself in the virtual world. He has all kinds of online personas to hide behind. Men, women, young, old, of all kinds. He’s all over social media platforms, message boards, Facebook groups, social apps, games, etc.. If you can have a profile somewhere, he could be there lurking. He mostly uses these identities to keep track of his scam victims and supply sources. He uses his flying monkeys to do this too.

    It sounds like something off of a cheesy Lifetime channel movie. But it’s real. I didn’t acknowledge the red flags when I first saw them because it seemed so crazy.

    Occasionally I encounter an online person who triggers that tingly sense in the back of my mind that it could be him. He had a lot of quirks and affectations. So I’ll see a person use a word or phrase that sounds like him and look through their profile and post history. A few times I’m sure it’s been him. But I block them all if I can just to be sure. I have also had someone interact with me online and just set the senses tingling and found they had a connection to him, they were a flying monkey. I assume he or his flying monkeys can see everything I write or post publicly and keep that in mind.

    Realistically I can never completely avoid him. But I don’t have to make myself easily accessible or visible either.

    • Chumpsaidbuhbye, I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. I know that tingling feeling and for me it’s right smack on the edge of a panic attack. I call it “spidey senses”.
      I finally decided I don’t care if my disordered ex sees what I say, but it’s unnerving to be spied on and to have are already shattered trust be challenged in this invisible shady evil way.
      I’m glad you’re here and posting.
      You keep being your mighty self!

  • No contact saved my sanity, cleared my mind and helped me get my divorce. XH didn’t want a divorce and after being NC for a year, I got to the place where I was ready to move forward and file papers. Then the emails came daily- from self-pity, to rage to charm. I ignored them all. I directed my lawyer to ignore demands through his lawyer (we already had a signed separation agreement, so no need to negotiate anything). The nonsense went on for 10 months. I filed each email into a separate file if I ever needed to prove he was crazy. Then one day the week before Christmas, I got a call from my lawyers office that he agreed to the divorce. I was told it would take about 4 months to get the decree. Then a week later I got the call that the judge had signed and I was divorced! No contact worked amazingly well. If you don’t give any attention, the cheater really does have to find another source. So, even if you have a really creative reply to provocation, best to not send it. They don’t get it and only see that they are still central in your life. No contact says you don’t know them anymore and it isn’t going to change.

    • No contact says you don’t know them anymore…

      This is a good way to look at it. I struggle with missing the man I once considered my friend and lover, but I realize that I am just projecting my hopes still.

      The reality is that the man I know my ex is now is simply someone I would not be friends with if I were to meet him now. He’s not someone I would date if I learned of a guy who had done the things to his wife that he did. Unfortunately, this isn’t the man I would want to father my children, but he is and nothing can be done about that.

      I just don’t know him anymore. And, given what he did to me, I don’t want to know him anymore.

  • My ex is always trying to get into some kind of emotional entanglement with me again. She’s really clever at coming up with some good “conversation bait.” I’ve managed to avoid answering texts about:
    – Her offering condolences on the anniversary of my dad’s death, and how it hard it must be for me to “bear it alone”
    – Her saying she might have cancer (turns out she was lying)

  • I have a question about situations in which No Contact is not possible or somewhat detrimental, especially to kids and thus Gray Rock is the approach we should probably use. Chump is being abused by not only ex-spouse but also Chump’s close retired relative (pseudonym Jed) who lives nearby and watched/watches minor kids while she worked and now while she (Chump), unemployed, is searching for work and studying for an extremely difficult licensing exam, which would most likely significantly help her secure a family-sustaining full-time job for life, but also by Jed. Jed routinely makes insulting sarcastic, passive-aggressive comments to Chump and undermines her (insults her when she tells the kids that they need to go to bed at 9:00, not 11:00 on a school night and tells kids that Chump is unreasonable). Half a century of disrespectful, boundary-ignoring, unloving behavior has affected Chump in many ways, eroding self-efficacy, confidence, self-esteem, and probably helped make her a chump (tolerate abuse from intimate partners). Jed refuses to change or work with Chump, with or without involvement of a counselor. Kids love hanging around Jed and Jed’s spouse (pseudonym Sally)–kids get to eat dessert each day there although they already get too much sugar at school and through their father, watch TV even on school nights, even if kids are failing courses (I don’t have a TV–and thus considered an ‘uncool’ undesirable parent), stay up very late on school nights–and Jed and Sally love to spend time with kids. When Chump informed Sally (and also, separately, Jed) that Sally and Jed could visit kids but Chump was not going to bring kids over until Jed positively significantly changes. Kids are also telling Chump that she is punishing THEM by trying to defend herself from emotional assault by Jed by choosing not to stay (live) at Jed and Sally’s house. For many years, Chump has been experiencing many unhealthy physical symptoms of chronic stress. She is thinking about moving far away (another part of the state) to escape toxic situation but feels bad about again moving kids to another school district, and a bit concerned about loss of babysitting/occasional tutoring, even though kids are almost high school age. Any suggestions on how to healthfully Gray Rock?

    • Move. Kids will adapt to new schools and friends. You can get your degree. Drop kick those unhelpful “relatives” through a dung heap.

  • Oh, my. There were so many emails that accused me of this and that. His favorite word to use was “inappropriate.” How many times was I scolded because what I said (the truth) was “inappropriate.” Tell the kids the truth about his cheating when they asked (in age-appropriate terms)? INAPPROPRIATE. Continue to deflect his gaslighting about, oh, everything when he was trying to win the kids over? INAPPROPRIATE. He would rant in his emails, and I never replied. The result for me is that they became fewer and farther in-between. I let him rage into the void and act like he was superior, and I kept him from pulling me into his sick little triangulation. Now, he and his Schmoopie have to find other reasons for their unhappiness that doesn’t include his terrible, INAPPROPRIATE ex-wife. 🙂

    • I volunteer to tell him to plug his dick into a light bulb socket and see what happens. Or would that be INAPROPRIATE? What a scumsucker your ex is. Just like mine.

      MovingOn, I’m sending you lots of APROPRIATE wishes for you to have the best life you can have, fuckwit-free.

  • O where do I begin? A little backstory ex threatened me and kids out of our house. Married over a decade. He had been cheating and moved ho in day after he threatened me out. I filed for divorce- 2 years later.

    Ex sent through Our Family Wizard – Pretty Sure you know how me and my sister feel about Human Garbage. (ex’s -Sister is a covert Narcissist that uses and lies to people. Cheated on her husband multiple times)
    Me – Crickets

    Ex sent through Our Family Wizard- Fuck you in your self righteous lesbian asshole.

    Ex send through Our Family Wizard-Our oldest daughter is being systematically abused by religious ideas and psychological inadequacies. Be an adult and love your kid. This is ridiculous. (“Belief in god” ex decided he was atheist when he cheated on me. Funny part is we have 2 children but only one is being abused by religion. Narc-Ex and his golden child.)
    Me – Crickets

    Ex Face book post of picture of an arbor the stain wore off. Caption “Fixing EX’s fuckups” (Texas Heat)
    Me -Crickets

    Ex sent through our family wizard- I saw a music video about a gal telling off her ex this morning and I thought that’d be pretty cool if you could get friend (name removed)and a couple other fat girls to ride around in your mustang singing it.
    Me -Crickets

    Ex sent through server- I was here in the front of the school auditorium w the music teacher 10 to 6. 20 after now and I’m not in possession of any kids. Call the cops, Ex!!! (daughter school performance)
    Me- Youngest is with her teacher and Oldest is sitting with her friends.
    Ex- I’m aware. I’m also not a cunt.
    Me- Crickets….

    This is only about last 2 months. I have over 2 years of this stuff. I realize reacting is just a swirl into everything that ex thinks is wrong with me. No real conversations can happen with people like this!

    I have removed myself from all social media and only look at OFW once a week. Courts have no clue what a narcissist is really like. Ex even admitted to being a narcissist. Got 10 years to go- Parallel Parenting and strict boundaries.

    • Finding Peace,
      You are my hero of Self-restraint! (Your ex-husband sounds a lot like mine. We no longer have OFW, though, as it was a waste of money. My ex-husband will badger me on any medium–smoke signals if no modern tech is available.) I had approximately 11 years of parallel parenting when now ex-husband filed for divorce. 5 down, 6 to go–Time has flown! What will we do with ourselves when the harassment from abusive exes ends? I’m not sure what I will do with all the time, energy, money once my ex-husband and I are no longer forced to interact (because we are ‘co-parents’ to minor children). I think that we should throw a tea party–perhaps in a Zen garden…when that day arrives–something to look forward to! Would love to invite CN! Ideally, I will have ‘gotten over’ hurt at hands of abusive people, including my last partner (post-separation boyfriend), be somewhat financially secure and physically healthy and my kids will be, too!

      • Rockstarwife -I will definitely will be throwing a party when the abuse stops. Me and my girls did tea at the plaza this spring it was awesome. We will have so much peace when it’s over. But until then I am following the advice “ the best revenge is a life well lived”. I try to stay focused on giving my kids a good life in-spite of . I have great friends and family; they exchange kids so I never see him. I will be eternally grateful too them. I was a stay at home mom when my whole world blew apart. In 2 1/2 years I finalized divorce, bought a dream home, started a job and have moved my way to a good spot- “making more than ex” ex’s words. Ex discovered this because he had to pay for insurance because the kids don’t qualify for government healthcare. I am starting my dream business of flipping houses next spring with business partners.
        You got this ignore him and live well! You are mighty.

    • This is vile, abusive harassment. I don’t think you should put up with it. Can’t you ask your lawyer what can be done, like those desist orders?

      • While living through this you figure out the legal system doesn’t care. I have had my attorney send cease and desist letters it last about 2 weeks. I was told I could take him to court for contempt it would cost me $2500 + and he would get a fine for contempt smaller than what I paid to stop him. He was severely stalking and threatening in the beginning and I was told by police they couldn’t do anything unless he was on top off me physically assaulting me.
        So I spend my money living my life and Trying to ignore his bs. I took the $2500 and flew my girls to Chicago to go to the American girl Store. In the end I will have great memories with the kids and he will still be vile.
        GrayRock and No contact are all you got!

      • My ex had to tell me he unfriended me on FB after I failed to sign his (zero support) separation agreement. He was desperate to move out.

    • My god. You. Are. Amazing.
      I THINK i could manage to not respond now, 2 years out, but not without calling my mom and sobbing and probably needing to take a day off work.
      I hope you are able to see that crap and say ‘no need to trust that he sucks, he keeps demonstrating it.”

      • “Trust that he sucks” hasn’t been hard to accept!
        I do call my mom and vent- Ex isn’t worth anymore tears. Missing work not an option – got 18 people counting on me.

  • About 2 months after we’d seperated but still sharing house (week on week off) found a receipt in the trash with OWs name and phone on it from 6 months prior in a record store bag that had been in our bedroom that long. She’s bought him a record that he played for OUR sexy time!

    Her car had been spotted in driveway while I was away (looked up registration to prove it) and I found a photo of her on Instagram wearing MY hat he’d left out in lounge that I hadn’t worn for about two years.

    He’d denied this women and him were a thing for well over two years of confrontations and gaslighting, as had she.

    I never contacted her, but did send him some texts with all my evidence. I was able to to get him out of the house at that point, no more bird nesting.

    The day after I showed him these things I got an accidental text from him saying “no, shit day, has she messaged you yet?”

    ????????‍♀️ the pleasure I got from never making contact with her was immense. Better than that. SHes welcome to him (he was already cheating on her with someone else by this stage, I found out a few months later when that one worked him out)

    • I will never forget this… Right after our divorce was final, he posted publicly on his Facebook page this long, rambling post about how “,more comfortable” he was with the new people in his life, without saying her name or tagging anyone .
      He added a YouTube link to the sing, “You Ain’t Worth the Whiskey”

      He also posted memes and links to articles about parental alienation, posts about “do what you have to do to be happy”… Also a few ugly pics of “horrible ex-wives”

      I saw all of these through my anonymous Facebook page.
      I maintained my silence, never commented, never engaged, never confronted him with any of it.

      The best grey rock is when he’s pissed at me, he wears a DILLIGAF (do I look like I give a fuck) shirts custom made by his SIL. I just roll my eyes and chuckle that he’s still trying to put on a front four years later — still trying to engage.

      Meanwhile, I’ve kept him blocked on all social media, even Pinterest ???????? and never post anything about him directly.
      The first couple of years, I was posting so much stuff about narcissists and abusive relationships … I got over it and quit doing it

  • Witchcraft. He literally tried to convince my father I was consorting with witches.

    I WAS researchresearching folklore for my second book. And he was stalking me, because that’s what they DO.

    But. Witchcraft.

  • Contentious divorce; he waffled about whether to divorce or not. I was already packing my things. When he realized I wasn’t going to come back, he actually attempted suicide. I admit I felt horrible, but didn’t want to encourage him. Asked him if he’d changed his beneficiary. He said something insulting to me and filed. Good.

  • I think what are the workarounds to these situations. Or when he rages at me I say…is that what u think or feel and the silence. Last, we will agree to disagree because we don’t think alike. Love that one because it annoys the narc but I this true. Can’t fix a turd even w/sparkles

  • CN I need help! D day was about a month and a half ago. Still no idea if we will try to resolve or divorce. Likely the latter because he “loves” the other woman. The OW is married and had two children. He abandoned me and my 2-year-old daughter for her. Next week is a big milestone birthday for him. And instead of no contact I’m tempted to make him a cake. Because I’m a codependent. What do I do? How do I not make the cake? Am I supposed to send a happy birthday text? HELP

    • EmeryBennet,

      Listen carefully. The thing you have to do is…NOTHING. You want to contact him as little as possible, and only when absolutely necessary, in as businesslike a way as possible. By his actions, he’s shown he doesn’t really care about you or your daughter. Don’t feel you have to do a DAMN thing for him.

      I went through this when the XW abandoned me. Felt I had to make digital pictures of the hard copies of pictures the XW had left behind at the house as a birthday present for her, because in over 25 years I hadn’t missed giving her a birthday present, or seeing her on her birthday. Do you know how much she cared about either of those things? NOT ONE BIT. This was w/in a month after D-day. I’ve never mentioned this on this site before, but you just reminded me of it.

      These fuckwits don’t think like we do. They can’t love like we do. Our love for them is WASTED on them. They don’t get it. But they like that they’re still central to your world. Avoid my mistake and don’t give in to your desire to show him how much you still care. It will not matter to him.

      Sending you lots of strength through the ether to back away from these ideas. You can disengage. We know it’s hard right after D-day. Do it so you can make your daughter proud of you one day, when you can tell her what you did to show you started to care about yourself and set boundaries for yourself, which is a very healthy thing for us all to do.You can be Mighty. I know you can.

    • I am so sorry Emory that you are a member of this club. there’s a lot of good advice on this site and I highly recommend that you go into the archives and read some of the letters about what to do. in summary there are a few steps you have to take and it’s gonna hurt like hell but you have to get through this initial part in order to get free and to heal. go Grey rock – only communicate about the daughter. 1. collect all of your financial documents, get copies of everything and freeze your credit, you do this by going on line to the different credit agencies and just freeze credit. A lot of these asses will take advantage of this situation and start raiding your savings and your 401ks and everything else. you need to know exactly Where the money is and how much it is and start to collect these important documents. do not tell him – be stealthy. 2 get yourself a kick ass lawyer who can be the intermediary for anything going forward, get a formal separation agreement or actually file for divorce. 3 find yourself a good counselor who is sympathetic to people who have been screwed by their spouse; 4 take care of yourself and your daughter. do nice things for yourself and just be with the pain. this is a very difficult situation you’re going to grieve you’re going to hurt like hell and you need to just be with. 4 get in touch with your family and your best friends and cry on their shoulder and have an outlet. 5 just spill your guts on here. I’m sure I haven’t covered everything there is a lot of lot of good advice on here. go to reddit and post. the CN will help you understand who these assholes are. they are leeches and feed off your attention. big huge hugs

    • Please don’t make him a cake. Don’t cook treats for your abuser. Voice of experience here.

    • Emery – ignore his birthday. He is not your friend. He is not the man you thought he was. You will NOT regret ignoring his birthday, but I promise you that if you acknowledge it in any way, you will regret having done so for a very, very long time.

      • Emery…I have also struggled with this over the last 19 months since he left. Ultimately, I decided that I will not do for him. However, I ensure the kids do something for their dad. Many might consider a different opinion, but I want to set the example for the kids about getting excited for the special occasions in the lives of the people they love, teacher gift giving and planning.

        My kids are 9 and 11, so they don’t have the means to just do it on their own. So, I make sure they make their dad a card, take them out to pick out something (cheaper, under $20) and help them plan a little outing for him. Once was taking him bowling, another was taking him to brunch.

        As soon as my kids are teenagers, I’ll remind them and send them off themselves to come up with something.

        He doesn’t deserve any of this, but that’s not the point as I see it. My kids are learning by example that they honour the people in their lives. In the first year, he did nothing for me, then he has smartened up in the second year. Got a flower basket for Mother’s Day that my daughter was so proud of picking out the colour. My son liked seeing me open my birthday gift of a glass hour-glass that he wanted to see me continuously flip and watch the sand go through. This is what the lesson is for them…the joy of gift-giving.

        But from me personally to my ex…nothing.

    • Leave him. I left my ex after 10 years with 3 kids aged 6, 2 and 9 months. Hardest thing I’ve ever done. But he will never ever be the man you want him to be. Do not stay for your child. Leave for your child. You can do it. It will not be easy. It will be hell. But staying will be worse. Hugs and love. I have been there. You will survive and thrive without him even when you think you won’t.

  • Left a pair of her underoos in my work bag. I will never forget this, but I saw, I threw away, and my very first thought was “welp, hope these aren’t her favorite because I’m tossing them in the trash.”


    Never mentioned, never blew up, never said a got-damned thing.

    No contact level achieved.

    • What a waste! There are plenty of desperate men who pay money for used female panties (I guess to sniff them or something, I don’t really want to know). If you had sold them you’ve got money and her ekhm, feminine juices would have made even more men happy.

  • My wasband decided to fill the silence void by Facebook messaging our entire close families detailing in his own words just what a dishonest, mean, delaying, avoidant POS he is being regarding financial dissolution of the marriage. Imagine my joy when both his sisters responded, holding up the mirror to his Fuckwittage. Absolutely priceless.

    • Wait, what? You mean like, he didn’t know what he was saying or how it was actually coming off?
      Freudian slips are the best.

  • Mine kept sending me emails for months after I legally terminated the marriage due to his serial cheating. I would not take his calls. I got love poems, pleas and regular updates about his life, which were all lies. I did not respond to any of them, but just filed them away. He’s a very manipulative sociopath who acted very normal until D day. I had no idea he was disordered until then. I booted him out on D day and I filed. He sent me emails pleading for a second chance and declaring his undying love for me. As he was doing this, for months, he was on every dating site, including adult friend finder and he was doing this full-time, looking for a new, suitable chump. I admit I watched his online activities and I did so because I had to see it for myself – to fully get just who he really was.

    Finally, he found a new chump and he moved in with her. He fell silent for about six months and then I received an email from him expressing his hope that my health was good and he asked me if I would share my “recipe” on how to clean a shower! Apparently new chump had a filthy shower and he was desperate.

    LOL! Of course I didn’t respond and that was the last time I ever heard from him. Thank God!

    • Similar story – multitasking cheater declaring regret and un dying love whilst working on new supply online.. Other playbook activity was attempted extra hoovering when briefly in between live in relationships. Ringing from other numbers etc. Now blocked on social media and email and phone. Its peaceful.

  • It’s just a habit you get better at with practice. Now that the divorce dust is settled, the ex has been reaching out for friendship. Seriously?! But the power of silence prevails. Unless the communication is 100% about our daughter, he gets nothing. He tests it by mixing his own agenda in with her stuff…so I disregard.

    And it’s easy now. And I feel so free. But it took a year to get here. Sure wish I coulda figured it out sooner.

  • Where do I begin… I could and should and may write a book. If it wasn’t my own life, then I would never believe it. My ex… I finally got divorced after almost 2 years of litigation last week. 13 years together and 3 very young kids. I never wanted a fight, but he would never let me go without one. He cheated on me, fired a gun in our home, used drugs, and lived a double life, solicited hookers into our home. I was clueless. The list goes on and on… he was a nightmare… classic sociopath and narcissist. Diagnosed with NPD and antisocial PD after I filed because he had to take a psychological evaluation and is still demanding even now that we are divorced that I take a psychological evaluation even though it doesn’t even matter Bc I got sole custody of our kids. He of course blamed me when I found out ab his double and filed for divorce after the shooting. He told people I knew about the hooker and that he was soliciting the hooker for business purposes and I was okay with it….. absolutely NOT. The lies this man tells and told never cease to amaze me. I don’t believe anything he says and only communicate with him to facilitate his visitations. Our entire relationship was a lie. I knew I had to be done with him when he subjected me and our children to violence and and such erratic and risk taking behavior. I filed for divorce without telling him and never looked back. It was a nightmare I would never wish on anyone. I didn’t think it would ever end, but I am finally divorced and I pray that his ability to hurt our kids and me is now extremely limited. His antics no longer work or scare me. The day of our divorce being finalized, he emailed me asking when we could meet for lunch or dinner so we could start being friends. Unreal. My eyes are wide open. Thank you, next. Never again.

    • Wow. That’s higher order of magnitude fuckwit. I’m so sorry you had to deal w/him, Over it., but at least you’re free now. May you and your children’s future be much, much brighter w/out him.

    • Wow. That’s a higher order of magnitude fuckwit. I’m so sorry you had to deal w/him, Over it., but at least you’re free now. May you and your children’s future be much, much brighter w/out him.

    • How did you find out the hookers were in your house? That occurred to me many times that my ex had them over, but I just simply never got the full truth of anything he did.

    • Wow our ex’s are probably best friends! I couldn’t get a psych evaluation. But he admitted to being a narcissist and claimed he could be Jim Jones or David Karesh. I got standard custody order with specific on details. Standard custody order state no matter what they do.
      Mine thought we should be friends- no thanks.
      Congrats to you! May we be strong women for our children.

  • I messed up last night. ow commented on my 12 year old Instagram account that I supervise. My daughter is an artist so she posts her art. I called cheating xh and went off. Then I blocked ow from daughters account. I’ve been sooooo good!!! So good! I was horrified ow thought that was ok. Now I’m the angry inappropriate one. Ugh!!! Oh….last night he said she was home w her husband!

    • What a pathetic woman. T, nobody’s perfect. Don’t beat yourself up too much. Sending you lots of positive vibes to help you get through this.

    • You were not inappropriate, in my opinion! How dare she – keep her blocked in every single way!

  • During my nasty divorce my ex tried every tactic.
    Over the period of a few days I started to receive these strange emails from a bank I did not use anymore that were addressed to my ex husband stating things like “thank you for setting up your new bank account ending in xxxx”. Confused, I immediately forwarded them to my attorney who then sent them on to my ex’s attorney. We didn’t hear anything back and the next thing I know my ex has filed papers with the court stating I committed bank fraud! I start to panic because this is a serious charge.
    I go to meet with my local police to try and figure out what I could do to protect myself. The detective informs me that he can’t help me prove my innocence because it’s all confidential and I haven’t been charged yet! After he said that I really start to panic, but then the detective tells me this important fact. He said if my ex did indeed set me up, and then filed papers with the court to accuse me, that in itself is a felony!
    Needless to say, we shared that bit of info with my ex and his attorney and that put an end to it. Not the nasty divorce of course, just the bank fraud part.

  • Finally, at the end of all things, and after a huge hoover attempt, when I was able to make a clean break from Creeper, he sent me a text saying, “After being up all night thinking, I realize you were right about everything. I’ve been the worst boyfriend to you. All the dots are connected.” I never responded. And it feels soooooooooooooo goooooooood. He made a few more hoover attempts. Crickets from me. And, though I was crushed beyond imagination , I’m now loving life!!!!!!!!

  • When I temporarily moved to my sisters new place and Stbx and OW were shacked up, I kept getting advert mail directly addresses to me at her address. I never used her address. These came from Home shows, Garden shows, boat shows and remodel shows. I got hundreds of adverts.

    There was no way my name, her address could have been associated randomly. This was hand entered — I imagine at the home shows.

    I imagine to throw their “happiness” in my face, they did this to show me they were house hunting.

    Nothing I could do anyway, so I ignored. Just kept tossing. This happened every spring for about 3 years. Never replied.

    Now I think about it, I got an advert from a small jeweler from the city he currently lives in with owife, with my name sisters address…. right before Christmas. I imagine another attempt to rub something in my face.

    Told sister don’t even bother to tell me, just toss it out.

  • No contact to me was when I started to react to his texts with grey rock. At that point I didn’t care anymore, and I do not tell him ANYTHING AT ALL about my life. Which was fairly easy because he never asked anyway. It was always him talking, talking, talking as a sad sausage. He would invite me to company events, etc but I’d always decline politely. Meh to me is not caring about what he does, what he says, what he tells me or anything at all. He doesn’t provoke a reaction from me, and neither am I interested in giving any to him. I practise very minimal contact, with him mostly asking to see the dog every couple of months, and business matters. But I don’t reach out to him.

    He doesn’t know that I’ve been dancing for almost 1 year, and that I have been dating sweet guy for 6 months. It’s none of his business and I like keeping it that way. It’s not because I feel I have power over him, it’s the sweet feeling of indifference, and I’ve relegated him to the past, where that chapter of my life is now closed and done.

  • Hmmm let’s see. There was after I broke up with her and went no contact so she started posting photos of me on her facebook and tagging me and people thought she was celebrating our relationship… that creeped me out so bad I permanently deleted my facebook account. So maybe that counts as reacting? But I said nothing to her.

    THEN there was the time she left creepy ass gifts for me at my front door in the middle of the night after months and months of her sending me long text messages and me still not responding. I didn’t respond TO her but I did file a police report on her for it…

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