Therapy Fails?
Most chumps have tried therapy with fuckwits. No knock on the mental health profession, but therapists are not wizards. They aren’t going to hand out hearts, brains, and courage. You either bring that stuff to the shrink sofa, or you don’t.
So today’s Fun (?) Friday Challenge is to share your Therapy Fails. It can be Stupid Shit Cheaters Say in Therapy. (I submit for your consideration my ex’s “I LIKE being a narcissist!”)
Lame-ass apologies? No apologies? Or maybe no discussion at all… just a string of broken appointments.
Or it can be Stupid Shit Therapists Say. Perhaps yours saw a unicorn. The Reconciliation Industrial Complex is full of silliness. (Okay tragic silliness that costs $140/hr). But consider the dada-esque gem that is “affairs make marriages stronger!”
Mostly, I’m looking for the dumb. Or the cloyingly New Agey. “I would’ve told you about Sienna, but your negative energy triggers my toxic shame.”
I’m sure you guys have material. Lay it on CN, and TGIF!
(I have run this challenge before, but for all the newbies who think their stories are unique and those repellent experiences were borne in sorrow alone — nope! This shit is really common.)
This is stupid shit therapists say: “You have postpartum depression” – said by marital counsellor when he and my husband bonded in sympathy after I told him my husband did not do any housework or help with the baby and that I was running on empty working at a full time job on top of it with no sleep. Of course, no suggestion was made that my husband should help.
Funny enough, I’m the husband and betrayed spouse, and postpartum came up as well. Like you, it was used against me in the ever accumulating pity points my WS of a wife was hording. It was said that her months of cheating, intentional lying, and desire to continue doing so, was possibly related to postpartum.
Then my wife insisted she just like banging other dudes.
For some reason, in all this, I was the only one that respected her enough to believe her. LOL But no. It couldn’t just be that she was selfish. There had to be a medical reason to remove some blame that she herself wasn’t even interested in watering down. Very odd indeed!
It sucks that the therapist essentially blamed you for ex-husband’s misgivings.
It still hurts, sometimes they just come out with stuff that they don’t even try to soften, and it takes your breath away, but although it’s super hurtful, in some ways it’s good to hear it from the horse’s mouth that no, it wasn’t mitigating circumstances, they are actually that much of a turd. I think a lot of the shock comes from trying to reconcile the image you had of the person (especially one you thought you knew through decades of living in close proximity) and their true selves. So sorry you had to go through the mind-fuck.
I was told I had post-partum anxiety, and was booked into parenting classes and a respite house for anxious and depressed mothers. Talk about being gaslighted (or is that lit?) Everything made so much sense after discovery. Ah no, I just had a partner that fought me on every single parenting decision I wanted to make, then reported back to OW who ripped me apart for being ‘priveledged as fuck’ who didn’t know how good she had it, and she would never take Mr Cheaterpants for granted like I did. I had stupidly assumed that your partner had your back in times of great vulnerability, but no…
As for the counsellor, he tried to tell me that there were different levels of trust and asked me if I would trust him to do this and that, giving many mundane examples. Yes I would trust him to take out the trash, but any moron can do that, I wanted someone who could step up for some of life’s more challenging tasks.
Stig,
As the years wore on about the only thing the x did around the house was to take the trash out and that, he must have felt, was his contribution to raising our family.
I should mention that for many, many years it was me who took the trash out until he, one day, took that chore on.
I will also mention that the trash he took out was not the household trash on a daily basis to the outside can, it was the ‘once a week’ job of rolling the trash can out to the curb so the trash collectors could pick it up.
In my chumpiness, I was overly appreciative and went way over board in thanking him….So glad I don’t have to pamper a grown man’s immature ego anymore 🙂
Elderly Chump, I feel you. It gets to the point that they do so little that we are stunned and amazed when they come to the party and do something. I really hated how I had to basically treat him like a toddler and over-praise him to encourage him to do even basic adulting.
Me too.
Our MC said to my exh, “She’s not better than you.”.
She didn’t want him to feel bad about himself. She said it just like that . Twice..
Yeah, our counsellor was all about him feeling comfortable and safe. You know, protection for those timid forest creatures & their poor fractured selves.
There are times when I realize that CL’s metaphors for cheaters and cheating (e.g., “timid forest creatures,” “kibbles,” and “cake” are perfect.
BS – we are morally superior to cheaters (at least in that way)
So….I actually DID have severe PPD, but I had to see my own psychologist in order to get some competent, compassionate mental health care. The couples “counselor” we were seeing just went along with asshat’s description of me being a crazy bitch prone to crying/yelling outbursts. Well DUH, I was trying to keep myself and two small babies alive (I mean that in every sense; I was really suffering) while being gaslighted, abused, and emotionally tortured by a cruel sociopath who demanded I go to counseling to change the way I treated him. He never admitted to our counselor that he was having an affair – gee, you think that might have explained some of my mental anguish?? – but he later admitted to me that the only reason he wanted couples counseling in the first place was so he could say to a judge that he did everything he could and he should get custody. ????
Oh yeah, that sounds familiar. My ex and I did about 4 sessions of “counseling” that was supposedly to figure out how to split in the best way for the children. Of those, he said “I went to the sessions because I was told I should” (meaning – he was told he should by the Personal Assistance Services counselor from his work, who told him at the beginning that he should end his affair and work on his marriage before just ending things). The ex didn’t care about the sessions or their outcomes, just his own impression management.
And despite what the PAS counselor told him, he told me he refused to go to couples/marriage counseling because he “didn’t want to be told how he should think.”
There was also one time he and I were leaving one of the few sessions we did go to, and he accused me in a flabbergasted/angry sort of way of looking at him like he was dog shit. Yeah, ya think? How else should I look at an adulterous liar? 😉
Have also been accused of looking at him wrong in therapy.
‘Don’t want to be told how they should think’. – THIS should be the main indicator on how to spot a narcissist!! I’ve been in a few situations where I thought maybe something was off with a date or a friends – and if something is said along these lines of ‘nobody can tell me what to do’ – yep – big flag.
“I’ve always felt the REAL love affair was between Charles and Camilla”
mused my counsellor as I sat in front of her, with aggressive breast cancer, bald headed, describing my husband abandoning me for OW 5 weeks into my chemo treatment just a few weeks previously.
Ouch! That is really brutal!
“You aren’t the boss of me.”
“You can’t tell me what to do.”
“Don’t tell me how to think.”
Red flags.
Mine said at least twice, “you can put my dick in your purse”
This was after the day, dumb shit. So disrespectful.
So glad he’s in the rearview mirror
Ex got a tattoo, “only God can judge me”. Took me a couple years after that. 7 to be exact.
That’s the only reason mine went to counseling, so he could make it look like he tried… Bull Shit
Same here. Ex just wanted to check the box and perform image management. He barely spoke in marriage counseling, completed “homework” with the most infuriating and unrelated bull crap imaginable (“Sometimes I don’t like it when _____” and my passive aggressive spouse wrote “the sky is cloudy.”). And of course wholly denied that he was involved with or interested in anyone else. And of course had never cheated.
The counselor never questioned his claim at fidelity–just fully accepted his claim at face value–we are too different, we are not in love anymore. She was a great therapist in other ways, but that part just boggled my mind.
I think maybe she saw that he had checked out, for whatever reason, and made accepting the divorce (on my part) her goal, rather than helping us get back together. Ultimately that’s what happened anyway. I only knew to trust my “affair” radar after I had irrefutable photographic evidence fall into my lap.
My husband did the same. When the MC challenged him to see things from my perspective he was done for sure. But… the MC did say we get complacent (more pick me dancing) and it doesn’t work to put the kids first, nope not when AP puts him where he’s most happy…. front and center.
Mine agreed to therapy after I booked one ( was absolutely at the end of my rope ) and told him that with or without him – I’m going.
Condition – no mentioning his porn activities ( that was pre dday had no idea how deep in shit he is and how fucked up I was)
After three months he didn’t see point of going anymore ( still before dday) because he was cured, I just needed to be more understanding and loving.
RIC – big time pick me dancing and the feeling that something doesn’t work there…
PTSD on my side, severe… therapist acknowledged that- and continued with a RIC bs.
Dday- going back to therapy.
No remorse, no guilt, just craziness of feeling so “ down”
Crying mess on the sofa- and he was just sitting there.
I knew .
Good thing you didn’t stay together. Lessing in disguise.Just imagine what that life would be like for you. See it as a gift that you no longer have to be with that fake ass man anymore xo sweet
Blessing* ????
I asked my ex to go to couples counseling a few times during our relationship. He always said, “no”. Then on DDay, he said, “Do you want to go to counseling?” I looked at him and calmly said, “No. An affair is a deal breaker for me. We’re done.” He often told me his wife refused to go to counseling with him. I’m sure he’s saying the same thing about me to his Schmoopie…who’s now his fiancee.
Sisu,
Every time I suggested therapy he turned me down. He finally decided to go but….without me. It literally felt like I had been erased; like I didn’t even exist or was part of ‘our’ relationship at all.
I hadn’t found LACFAL and was deep into pick-me-dancing and the RIC messages so I was just patient and considerate and tolerant and understanding etc.
I finally worked it out in my own little shocked mind that ‘it was what he needed and maybe it would wake him up so he would come to his senses and start behaving like himself again’.
WRONG. He went to therapy for maybe 2 months and then considered himself
‘cured’. We are now divorced and I know there was never a real him – only a hole and a bunch of lies. 30+ years with a serial cheater AND, it is pertinent to mention that he is a therapist!!!!
His ex-wife, I meant.
Exactly what I was told. Looking back, I didn’t have postpartum depression.
I was reacting normally to dealing with a fuckwit!
Yes, I also experienced this, no help, whilst also paying all the household bills even though my ex had a job.
Mega “baby blues”.
I had a pretty cool doctor, he said I didn’t need anti-depressants, just more money and time but he could prescribe those, I had to figure that out myself
Gosh things are so much easier now.
It’s actually more like *Insightful things therapists say that i chose to ignore for 7 years* but here goes….
7 years before final D Day (i know right) and about two weeks after i first caught him cheating red handed (that affair lasted another 3 years ive recently found out, including through me getting pregnant and then marrying the fuckwit, it lasted another year after that) i saw a therapist.
Before he joined us after session 3, she gave me the most galvanising description of codependents/codependence (think venn diagram, circles move apart, incomplete circles create and teeny tiny elipse left behind representing my identity). I still explain codependence like this to people. Why did it take me 7 years and a wedding to work out thats bad???? Will never know.
But here’s the kicker. I remember her so clearly saying *he sounds very narcissistic*
That was session 2, he came to 3 and 4 then i got pregnant and we bailed on therapy.
This was 2011! We had google! Why did i not google that word until 7 years later and endless pick me dancing.
Still kicking myself over that.
NenaB, I’ve read all sorts of books about codependency and have done therapy with top-flight people for years. But I didn’t really get it all the way until AFTER D-Day and I started looking hard at my life choices and where they got me, on the advice of my astrologer friend.
Don’t beat yourself up. You weren’t READY. You had to give up some life assumptions before you could hear what the therapist said and fully understand it. (This is why American education is so f*cked up. We think telling people is teaching people. It’s more like planting seeds.
And that’s difficult when you’re in love and you want to save the relationship. One way we can help young people is to raise them to see that if the relationship needs “saving” before marriage, walk away. But as a culture, we are light years away from doing that. Humans bond. It’s hard for most of us normal people to walk away from those bonds, not so hard for narcissists and sociopaths.
Lovedajackass,
So true. Including your words about US education.
Almost 20 years ago I saw a counsellor who said “it sounds like some kind of a personality disorder”. I didn’t know what that was- so I said no, I think he just had a bad childhood. Duh. Later on he told me to “RUN.” Instead I spackled some more. I am a hard headed woman- saving the world one arsehole at a time. HA. But I am free now as of 5 years ago. And loving it! I know now, that he was a great counsellor. I was so determined not to ‘fail’ so my son could have an intact family, because it was my second marriage. Thank heavens for chump nation. Some loud and beautiful voices and a ton of cumulative experience.
Similar experience: after my DDay I went to a counselor and they told me that I had been cheated on because I am codependent. As in, I let people walk all over me because I’m scared of losing them. Did I know he was cheating on me? No. However, yes, I’m part “it was my fault for not knowing”
Dumped that therapist and the ex husband and moved on to a therapist who counsels out of a trauma model (example you’ve been wronged), not a codependency model (it’s partly your fault you’ve been wronged).
Codependency is not a thing in betrayal! Gads! These therapist are insane! How can you be codependent over something you had no idea was going on??? There is no codependency in cheating! It’s a one sided one man band! Thank heaven my therapist knew this and verbalized it to me! Codependents are for drugs and alcohol. The End.
Read and listen to Rob Weiss. He explains prodependency well.
Not Crazy,
When I was drowning in my pick-me-dancing and RIC months I somehow came upon one of his talks on youtube and the relief I felt was palatable.
Up until that point I had knee-jerk reactions to anyone pointing a finger at me and suggesting that I had a part to play in the mess HE made of his life as a serial cheater, profound primary process liar and a covert narcissist. I knew they weren’t right but I couldn’t put my finger on it AND, in the role I did play, it always was my fault. Not in relation to his cheating because I didn’t know about it for 30+ years but in relation to everyday stuff – kids being too messy, noisy – house not clean enough yada, yada, yada…..
It was one of many eye opening moments for me that allowed me to see what I hadn’t been able to see before and to see that I wasn’t to blame because our relationship was all a lie. His moods etc were all related to what he was up to and I thought he was just depressed and overworked…..little did I know 🙂
That’s the kind of therapist (trauma model) that I wish I’d found after my ex-boyfriend cheated on me. (First significant, long-term relationship I had after an 18-year marriage.)
She immediately told me I was co-dependent, something no other therapist had said before. (She also claimed she knew couples whose relationships were ‘made stronger’ after infidelity.)
A few days later, I ended up talking to the male friend who had referred me to her – and she had told him he was co-dependent too.
Apparently that was her go-to diagnosis. Complete with printed-out literature.
I got lucky. I felt I needed some help getting through the separation and divorce. I also wanted someone my kids could talk too. The woman I found said there was nothing to work with (with my X) but she would help me. So that is what she and I did.
We had a marital counselor who told me I should just think about my ex-a##hole husband’s affair as an “aberration of the norm..
A blip on the radar….an anomaly.. t
Whole time my ex claimed he acted out because he was abused as a child. GTFOH!?? What did that. have to do with cheating on ME?! Of course therapist co signed on it. “His trauma caused him to cheat “! Yeah ….right
“His trauma caused him to cheat!” OMG!!!!
I got the same thing. After one of the final DDays he was desperate to save our relationship. He finally agreed to go to therapy with me. We found a therapist that was recommended by someone I know. She was ok the first session but then deemed he needed testing for ADD/ADHD which I had suspected for quite sometime. Well, he did the testing and with all his FOO issues he now had a valid excuse for being a douche and serial cheater. It was out of his control because of he feeling he’s never good enough and biological need for a dopamine rush. So much for counselling. He said after his blessed excuse of a diagnosis it was too expensive to keep going that he will just take his meds and all will be fine. Well, he still cheated on the meds and I kicked him out. THEN, he decided we and he alone had to dive hard into counselling. I wouldn’t and he went twice on his own and I found CL!!! Best therapy I’ve ever had. I’m 8 months post DDAY and doing better everyday.
Even the books on adult ADD and ADHD say that people can have that AND be narcissistic, in which case there’s nothing to work with.
I still do therapy—I guess I still see myself growing and improving from that work. But what turned my life around was CL and learning about the way narcissistic people do relationships and how codependent/chumpy types are targets for them. Lots of puzzle pieces snapped into place. I owe such a debt of gratitude to CL and Chump Nation for a graduate-level education is dysfunctional relationships.
My wife “fell in love” with the mother of one of our daughter’s best friends. The affair is still going on, and divorce papers have been filed. My first “therapist” asked me whether I would consider a polyamorous relationship since the affair showed no signs of stopping. I said, “no, I want a one husband/one wife sort of relationship with a straight woman, sort of like the one I thought I was signing up for on my wedding day.”
I never saw that theratwist again.
The therapeutic relief I obtained through CN and CL was orders of magnitude better than I received through “therapy”.
The abuse excuse is just that. Some of us, as well as others outside here, have had horrible childhoods but we decided we would not repeat the family patterns or hurt anyone else.
When cheaters/abusers have to lie, hide, blame and deflect what they do, that tells us they KNOW what they are doing is WRONG – but lack the will to stop themselves. Easier to BS why they do it than to make the change .. The only thing to do with such persons is to get away, and stay away.
All therapists should know this.
He spent 30 minutes listing my failings as a human being, spouse and parent while I listened, amused our very young child (non-verbal) and silently cried. She asked that I step out for a few minutes so she could speak with him privately. I foolishly did so (I should have grabbed the kid and driven the fuck away).
The incompetent therapist asked me back in, pointed out that I was in tears and that he had hurt me deeply (I’m not a crier!) and that he needed to GIVE ME A HUG.
No. He was abusing me, she should have called him on the carpet in front of me and told him that his behavior was unacceptable.
At a later session she made some stupid excuse for his shitty behavior and I told her that she hadn’t a clue. To take him in for a week and get back to me. I refused to go to sessions after that.
I know this is late but I hope you see it.
Good for you!
Marriage therapist just never admitted she saw anything wrong with husband’s gaslighting, temper tantrums or devaluing. Just remained neutral. So neutral that it seemed, to me, that she was signing off on that behavior as normal. Made me wonder if I was crazy or overreacting…
Feh!
I met with my ex’s psychiatrist (who took no insurance for the 3 times a week my ex was seeing him). My ex was there as well.
I came prepared. I told the doctor that I thought my ex was depressed and listed all the things he had lost interest in: me, his kids, his family. I talked about no sex, how hard he was working and all the hours he wasn’t home…
After I finished talking the fancy psychologist SCREAMS out “would the two of you just get a divorce already?!?!”
Not “hey ex, is there something you want to tell your wife?” Or “ maybe this is a good time to have an honest discussion about what ex has been doing for the last few year?”
I was so terrified by his screaming that I left the office. Maybe if I had stayed, I would have found out about the affair but there are no redos
My EX was in therapy because he was drinking a lot. He went every week for a year. Never once told the therapist how he was screwing MANY different people, all the while playing the poor helpless victim of being married to mean old me.
So basically he was using the therapist to build his case against me and further blame me for HIS sick choices. To this day EX serial cheater still takes no responsibility for what he did because the therapist was so “good” at helping him formulate his story.
Joke’s on him though bc after shit hit the fan I want to that therapist, asked him how does a trained professional miss all that? I had a good validating laugh to myself when the therapist was like “well, there is a level of psychopathic behavior in someone who could do this…”
That’s a very elaborate discard scenario, using therapy to “build his case.” That’s awful.
“…he was using the therapist to build his case against me and further blame me for HIS sick choices.”
^^^This^^^
That is exactly what my ex used therapy for, to justify his actions and to blame me for his unhappiness and any problems in our marriage, whether it was the therapist we saw together, or the one he saw by himself.
When we went to therapy together, he would never say what he wanted out of therapy, what the point of it was; instead, he’d say, “We’ll have to see where it goes.” Nor would he ever discuss with me ahead of time what he wanted to talk about in therapy. Both of these actions kept me off balance all the time (which I know know was what he wanted). He would also ambush me, by revealing things to the therapist in a way that would cast me in the position of being the one at fault. I never knew whether the therapist understood he was doing this, but my ex would deny it was deliberate, attributing it to “we’ll see where it goes” and “it just came up in the moment.” He used therapy to attack me, and later, when we were divorcing, he actually said, “Our problem was communication, but I never felt as if I could talk to you,” making everything my fault.
When he was seeing his own therapist, they talked about me, and from my ex’s reports of these therapy sessions, his therapist condescendingly attributed to me motives and feelings the therapist, who knew nothing about me and had never met me, could not possible know that I had.
I’ve had two therapists in the course of my life for me alone–one in my 20s, and one when I was contemplating leaving my ex–who were tough but supportive, and I am extremely grateful to them.
You’d think a therapist would recognize blame shifting. But evidently not.
Wh saw a therapist on his own during the affair but never told her about the affair because he was embarassed and wouldn’t get pity from her if she knew he was lying. He needed me to be the bad guy. I actually have no idea what he could have told her xsince it turns out he kept every single secret (the kind that are addressed in therapy) from her. I think it made him look really enlightened to his ow – as did our going to MC during the affair – I’m such a good husband I see a therapist with my wife a few hours before my mistress blows me.”
Good for you in going back to the therapist and confronting him with how fooled he was. It sounds like you were direct but measured given he accepted the facts and reached the right conclusion, belatedly. But regardless how he responded, he’ll probably never forget that in his future work. You’ve done everyone who comes to him after you a favor. So many therapists only “know” psychopathy from a book. So they really don’t know it at all. It becomes much different once you’ve experienced it.
OMG
We went to a marriage counselor recommended by HIS “bestest friend in the whole world” – and who spoke English – just so I wouldn’t have the advantage over him because my French is better than his (hint: take up your employer’s offer of free French lessons in work hours over the last 30 years and see where it gets you). But, I digress! We went twice and when she asked him to stop yelling he screamed at me on the way home that she was obviously on my side because she was a woman! But he chose her on the recommendation of his “bestest friend in the whole world”! We never made it to our third appointment as the drunken asshole had hit someone’s car on the way to her office and never showed up!
“Affairs don’t happen in a vacuum.” —one of the brilliant things my ex came home parroting from his therapy sessions, total blame-shifting with the aid of his clueless therapist. Ugh…
“Affairs don’t happen in a vacuum,” and “It takes two to tango” were two of the ones I was fed. I wasn’t wise enough to reply that it takes two to build a good marriage, but only one asshole to blow it all to hell.
No, affairs don’t happen in a vacuum. They don’t “just happen,” either. Affairs are choices. Mr. Sparkly Pants apparently still takes no responsibility because “it takes two,” and “affairs don’t happen in a vacuum.” Words the therapist said. Shitty therapist, but I digress.
I don’t think they’ve stuck a cheater in space yet to confirm that assertion. But when they do, I won’t be surprised to learn that cheaters frequently disappeared into the air lock chamber for hours and returned with lipstick on their space suits. So no, affairs don’t happen in a vacuum, they happen in an atmosphere of entitlement and personality disorder.
I love that one —“affairs happen in an atmosphere of entitlement and personality disorder.”
Well, they DO happen because the cheater sucks, which is similar. ????????
I didn’t get that, my husband, also a chump got something similar. The therapist said, “There must be something missing in the marriage to make her cheat.” All the money and strange in the world would not make that woman happy.
Got this one, too. Total mind fuck and blameshift.
Our couple’s therapist told us we were “magical” together.
He was so impressed by the fact we had “date nights”, which was his best tip.
After a year, I was the problem because I couldn’t “move on”. While I was still waiting for the full disclosure my partner was “future faking”!
Prescient. 6 months out waiting for my full disclosure. I’m sure CN already knows it is not coming.
I’ve dumped 3 therapists and I’m inching my way closer to dumping cheater.
So much wasted time and energy trying to untangle the skein, ruminating the affair, and learning about the family law system.
Such a nightmare, but the storm can’t last forever.
My ex would not see a professional therapist after confessing to cheating with multiple male partners during our marriage choosing instead to rely on the wisdom of our church leadership for guidance and recovery. Basically they sided with him and were helping him to hide from the truth and I refused to play the game, got a real therapist and left the church despite it being my only support network and having an ill child. Fast forward three years and said ill child is in remission gets fed up with her fathers ongoing emotional abuse and ends visitation. Ex instantly tries to get DD into a form of couples therapy she was 13. He even tries to use me to convince her of its merit as I have gained my therapist credentials since separating. She refused. That Christmas he insisted she hand over all cash and gift cards given to her by his family and then tries to use it to leverage her into visiting with him. Didn’t work. A few months back she gets the opportunity to ask when she would be getting her Christmas money from two years ago. Ex responded “you will not be getting it because I needed it to pay for a therapist after all the pain you caused me’. I now wonder if she should ask for a receipt?
Wow, Thankful. You just can’t make this shit up. Father cheats, etc., etc., and DAUGHTER has to return all gifts because she is, rightfully, disappointed in her asshole father?! No more gifts because he needs the $ for his therapy?! I’m sorry, but I had to laugh at that one.
Your ex’s excuse just gave me an idea: my mother has been blackmailing me, threatening to disinherit me, excluding me, etc., ever since she realized that I KNEW she had cheated on my father and that he was raising a daughter that was not his = decades of blackmail, threats, exclusion and shit in general (she’s even mean to my children, her own grandchildren).
I’ll tell her to keep the presents and use the $ she saves for therapy.
With my father, a gift was never freely given. It was always contingent, and he would remind you of it or ask for it back whenever he felt slighted. I learned from a wise therapist to treat a gift as a gift, and to either refuse them from my father or to take them in the spirit of a real gift, and never let him blackmail me emotionally that way.
I hope your daughter has made it clear to those who gave her those presents that her father confiscated them. What a selfish ass he is!
Funny but not funny, it doesn’t get better with age. I’m in my 30’s and my father (also a narcissist) tried to pull the same thing on me, at my brother’s wedding while I was holding my tired toddler in my arms. He listed all the ways in which I was a terrible daughter, and if I didn’t shape up, I wouldn’t “get anything”. This was after D-Day, and my discovery of CL, and I just refused to pick me dance at all for anyone anymore. So I just calmly replied “Ok.” From the look on his face, I was actually worried his head was going to explode ???? He tried a couple more times, but each time I let him rant for a few minutes until he got to his threats, and just said “Ok.” He hasn’t contacted me since ???? He sad sausages at my brother who then occasionally tries to get me to contact him (my brother does mean well, we’ve all got our chumpy issues growing up with that guy), but other than that, the silence has been bliss. I’d be surprised if my dad didn’t drink all his money before he died anyway, but if there’s anything left, my brother and his wife deserve it for putting up with his crap way longer than I was willing to.
I don’t know your financial situation, but if she can manage it, I would recommend that your daughter tell him, calmly and respectfully, to shove it. The cost of some money is just too damn high.
((((The Way of. Chumps)))
YOU are very Mighty!
YOU are a Class Act!
OMG. Narcissist will do everything but pay a bill to someone who doesn’t flatter them! If it was a trip to Rome with schmoopie, it would be paid. If there’s a way to short change a child or child support because they seen ‘critical’ of his hurtful behavior….he will leave them cold, high, and dry. Because HIS money is for HIS ego.
Oh for the love of puppies – what a rat bastard father. Your daughter is wise for spotting his parental inadequacies. And you my dear, are a might mom!
What a horrible person and father. He’s clueless and will never understand human nature. Hugs to your daughter – she’s learning a hard and valuable lesson in fuckwittery.
I could go on and on. But one of the highlights of the bad therapist sessions was when I started a session by saying that we didn’t share the same values. She ignored the statement, turned away from me and looked at my ex and asked him how things are going. That was the beginning of the end. He’s right back in another relationship, which I can only figure is a good front for his fucked-up-ness.
Therapist said to me, “People who are happy in their marriages don’t have affairs.”
What a loaded statement – and full of shit. Blame shifting by the therapist. Justifying X’s actions. Ignoring that he is an emotionally abusive, lying, sack of shit narcissist.
At the time, this statement fell like a slap in the face. I didn’t realize it was categorically untrue and that it WASN’T my fault.
All I knew was that my gut was telling me that there was something wrong, and I needed to get away from this “marriage therapist” .
Same thing with the statement that we had BOTH “failed at the marriage”. Nope. Just one of us. And it ain’t me.
Remember a lot of therapists have their own “issues”. I have a neighbor, a renowned child psychologist from Montreal, that is a train wreck. He is an alcoholic, dog poisoning/killer, old disgusting letch. Retired many years thankfully but I can only imagine the damage he inflicted on those poor kids under his care. I’d be shocked if no molestation happened. He lives full time (illegally) next door to our vacation home. His longtime partner is/was a psychiatric nurse, also an alcoholic, nasty piece of work. One of his sons committed suicide. One is as nasty as he is and not sure what happened to the 3rd son but he is not in the picture. I now know why we got the place for a steal. Two friends of mine are in the same field, both came from dysfunctional families. One is great at her vocation the other while I really like her is too messed up to be counseling anyone quite frankly.
Sounds like he got it backwards. It may have been taught years ago “People who don’t have affairs are happy in their marriage.”
All marriages are susceptible to infidelity – the good ones, the bad and the ugly ones.
BNB – That statement from your therapist is a load of crap. People in happy marriages DO have affairs. I have done extensive research on the subject and studies have concluded that someone’s affair has NOTHING to do with their spouse and it has NOTHING to do with the whore/man whore. It has EVERYTHING to do with the cheater. We were the ones cheated on and that’s where the connection ends.
We were not there. We are not responsible for someone’s faithfulness or maintaining someone else’s integrity or moral standards. That’s on THEM. They are sick individuals.
My ex started his own therapy sessions after our divorce. After he attended therapy on his own for several months, he texted me that he wants to talk to me very soon. I told him anything he has to say to me he can say it in front of his therapist. He and his therapist agreed to have me attend sessions while he continued sessions on his own. During our sessions he stated, “we had a good marriage”, “I was the best wife he could ask for”, “he ruined everything and will feel the guilt forever”. He also stated many times he is “going through things”. Our marriage was a happy marriage. His therapist stated he’s going through a crisis. See? Testament to the fact that people in happy marriages do have affairs. Don’t take blame for someone else’s actions or responsibility for internal struggles they are going through.
The couples therapist I saw with STBXH the week after D-Day was absolutely great. STBXH thought she was ‘thick’ and was ‘scared’ of him. He only went twice and then said she was useless and he ‘knew all the answers anyway’. I saw her on my own a few times – she was very kind and empowering. But my favourite thing was her comment that he was ‘one of the most arrogant people I have ever met as a relationship counsellor!’ I found that comment very validating! She pretty much told me that he was a shitty person and that I could do better. So it was a therapy fail for STBXH but not me!! 🙂
Therapist told me I couldn’t work on myself until I was willing to forgive. She said we would exclusively talk about my need to forgive until I could do it. I never went back.
My therapist immediately told me, after her first session with XH: run
This dimwit was probably parroting something she read in a trashy magazine. No imagination about your hurt.
Same thing. Obviously they have no insight into the infidelity wreckage.
Mine was just the basic “went once, realized the truth would be exposed and decided that he would get his mystery illness that always seemed to flare up riiiiight when he wanted to weasel out of something for the next appointment and then never returned”.
Some of these folks are just so unoriginal. Lol
He sounds like a four year old kid????
How can anyone function in this world, with a plan like that?
So much bad advice from so many therapists, after the 3rd and final DDay, while I was half-way trying to reconcile, therapists told me to spend 15 minutes telling X-hole how I felt and he was supposed to listen and say “I’m sorry you feel that way.” What actually happened, X-hole used the 15 minutes to torture me as I had to relive the horrible pain, then decided he need his own 15 minutes to yell and tell me what a bad wife I was.
Therapy with a abusive, manipulator is always a bad idea. They put on the charm, making the victim look like the bad guy. Then abuse the victim after the session for anything they might have said that made them look bad. It’s just another form of abuse.
On a positive note, I did have one therapist who told me my X was an abuser and that I should take the kids and leave. He refused to see my X anymore and would only see me alone as I he knew I was the one needing the help. It took six more years to pull myself together, and the 3rd DDay, but I finally did. I owe that therapist more than I could pay.
ChumpedtotheMax,
Even when we may not be ready to leave a cheater/abuser at the moment, it helps to hear the truth about our spouse from an outsider.
While I was married, a member of the co-ed sports team we played with was sitting out a rotation with me on the bleachers. She said to me, “Your husband is a real assh**e. I don’t understand how a sweet person like you could be married to him.” OUCH! She was blunt but she said the truth. It was a validation that I remembered and needed when I divorced the guy several years later.
I’m glad you got away from the cheater and hope your life gets more wonderful each day.
After I found out about the affair and my husband stopped the divorce. Our agreement was that I would pay off the credit card. We would go to counselling. He agreed to stop all contact with Skankella. And he promised to never contact, talk or have any inappropriate contact with any women. And if any women would contact him in any way he would inform me.
I paid off the credit card.
He continued to make excuses why he could not keep the counselling appointments. I had to cancel and of course the counselor dropped us. Every time I would bring up the affair and ask questions. He would say it is the weekend. I only have 2 days off and don’t want my weekend ruined. When I would try to talk about it during the week. He would say. Must you bring this up now? I have to work and I do not want to get upset and not focus on my job. I later found out that he did not stop contact with Skankella until 4 weeks after we agreed to work on our marriage. Fast forward one year. He left his computer on. I noticed his facebook account was open. I saw a friend request from his Ex girlfriend from high school. He messaged her and told her and and gave him his number. I did some digging on our cell records. And there were numerous texted to and from her(he always texted her first). When I confronted him with evidence in hand. His excuse was that he thought it was me trying to trick him. I called her and I told her everything about his affair with my cousin. She was disgusted and apologized for contacting him. And will never contact him again.
I of course kept my promise. And he broke his promise from the start. I packed his clothes and told him to get out. He of course acted like the victim and said I was acting crazy. He was not the one who contacted her. She contacted him. But, the fuckwit seems to not understand is that he gave her is number. Kept it from me. And when I found out he lied and denied. What did I expect from a Man who would cheat with his wife’s cousin? Please forgive my long rant.
Piece of shit. Cheater doesn’t deserve u. Keep gaining a life!
Also, all this who-did-what-first is a toddler’s argument. He’s scrambling to keep you off center. Good job seeing through that. It’s tough when you are in the middle to have that kind of vision.
A broken agreement is a broken agreement. The circumstances rarely matter, and when they do matter, it is because the act is reasonable under the circumstances. Violating a monogamy agreement is never reasonable because no person needs to have secret sex with another person and lie about it. That’s never a need.
You are mighty.
No need to forgive, we are here to listen and support.
Priest: (to summarize) there are too many red flags. I can’t marry you in the church.
Me: (marries him anyway, justice of the peace)
Three years later:
Me: I have so much anxiety, I can’t breathe
Therapist: How’s your marriage?
Me: What?? My marriage? It’s fine! Everything’s fine. What red flags? Those red flags? ????Oh I….love a parade….
He’s finally out of my house and I filed for divorce. My life mission is to never ignore another red flag.
Well done!
God bless those clergy who yea verily smithest thee with the Holy Two-by-Four of Truthiness.
Yes indeed. I got nothing but support and concern for my welfare from all priests from whom I sought counsel when I finally left my abusive husband almost 3 years ago. They gave me wise advice and made sure I was also seeing a professional counsellor and had other practical support. They all said its not you its him and you need to leave for you and your children. It was my MUM who sent me back into it when I told her 16 years ago what was going on, telling me I just had to cope. I am only now coming to terms with that little nugget.
My priest saved my life by telling me to get away from the emotional/psychological/sexual abuse of an unrepentant cheater! Sometimes we have to learn the hard lesson.
Following the first or second marriage counseling session, the counselor forwarded both of us Esther Perel’s TED Talk video. STBXW’s favorite line from that video — “I was a victim of the affair but she was a victim of the marriage”. In a later session, I was told by the counselor that while I didn’t cause the affair, I influenced it.
Now if I can only influence her to stop dragging her feet during the divorce…
Perhaps we can do a “Stupid Shit That In-laws Say”. I have several doozies there.
Ah man, sorry.
My marriage counselor did the same. So I started to untangle the skein using Ester Perel as my guide. Thank God I found CL soon after.
Dropped her rt-quick. I wonder about going back to that therapist and informing her that was a stupid suggestion. But I suspect she allows EP to guide her personally, cause why else?
Good luck with the lame in-laws and feet-dragger. You got this!
My therapist told us “he clearly feels bad and he clearly loves you and isn’t going to do it again. What more do you need?” A couple of years passed and trust was rebuilt. I married him. Ten months later he left me. That lady was a quack.
We went to one counseling appointment. I was ready to work on the marriage (I was still on hopium). He said, “I’m not sure I want to waste another 10 years with her.” I didn’t grasp what he was saying at first. Thankfully the counselor said he saw no reason for us to come back. That woke me up and I saw a divorce lawyer two days later.
Our marriage counselor basically got him to ask for a divorce. Thank God he did because that fucker wanted a separation. I said What! That could we two years of him manipulating me!! I didn’t say that at the time because I was pick me dancing. Stbx loved cake. What a great marriage counselor. Totally saw through that fuckers bullshit after one and Hal sessions with us. That counselor saved my sanity and helped me on my journey to gaining a life. Never said anything derogatory to us but manipulated the narc into asking for a divorce. Awesome.
About 6 weeks after wife told me one Sunday night, at 11: 45 pm, ” I want yi have sex with other people”, we were in couples therapy. I brought that up, therapist lead and said ” wasn’t that you just trying get noticed?”. Wife said ” yeah, I wanted him to notice me”. That she wasn’t serious about wanting to bang other people. Well, recently, she admitted to banging thus dude she brings around my boys. Unreal.
My ex had been seeing a psychiatrist for his alcohol problem. After I found out about the OW, he went to see him. (The guy managed to not have double-booked or fallen asleep in his office as he was prone to do) he told my ex that if he ended the affair “he could go into a tailspin.”
Now THAT’S a therapist…. ????
I set up our marriage counseling sessions after DDay number who the fuck knows!! I’m such a chump. But anyways our counselor was great. She knew right away that my STBXW was having an affair. We made it through 3 sessions together and after that she stormed out and was crying that we ganged up on her. The 4th session she was a no show, no call. I set up an individual session with our first counselors boss. Her first question was “What are you scared of?” I’m like what do you mean? She said “well she’s having an affair and you don’t deserve that, there’s nothing wrong with getting a divorce. You need to divorce her. You won’t have any problems finding someone new if that’s what you’re afraid of.” I owe those 2 awesome ladies for helping me get the courage to finally leave her whore ass.
Sounds like you were lucky with some good therapy!
Like many I too wasted much money on marriage counselling, which was doubly annoying when I discovered a year or so later than STBXW was not only still in contact with her OM but had already started sending him money, then sitting in the sessions pretending we could ‘talk’
Even though I didn’t see it at the time (far too high on hopium), our counsellor quickly moved to individual sessions with us and pretty much told me the same thing. What am I scared of? Why do I want to stay and reconcile? Etc. She had a great saying from her native Spain that an ice-cream melting in a doorway lasts longer than a newly divorced man! In other words I needed to move on and my life will be just fine.
My ex has seen SO many therapists, but he fires them as soon as they make suggestions he doesn’t like. So the only person he has stuck with for these past 15 years is someone who excuses his cheating, lying, and general horribleness. He loves her because she challenges him on nothing. Her name is Shelly so I refer to her as “the Shenabler”‘
Shenabler is just collecting $$$. Unfortunately that is also prevalent in this field. The therapists know that as long as they go along and agree with the cheater, abuser, etc. they are long term clients. They know if they call them out the clients drop them and they lose $$$. Some may figure what the hell as you really can’t help a narcissist.
Marriage Counselor: The two of you are here because of your husband’s infidelity, but we aren’t going to discuss that. Ever. We are going to discuss what led to his ‘poor choices’. After all, he wouldn’t have cheated for no reason, so your marriage was already in trouble”when he did? What is your part in his cheating?
Me:WTF? (Of course, this was before I learned that so-called therapist and OW were related by, of all things, marriage.)
I am so glad I saw through that BS and stopped joint counseling immediately. I think X continued to see said therapist. After all, she (yes, it was a woman) was telling him everything he wanted to hear. I knew better than to pay a stranger to tell me that X’s cheating was a “cry for help”. The Ester Perlman BS is heavily entrenched if the therapeutic community, at least it was where I lived.
My counsellor was good and focused on me not saving the marriage (my original intent). My STBX wouldn’t go “there is nothing wrong with me”. I laugh my ass off at that – inner demons are what make someone cheat – end of story.
Crap my ex told me: I’m not looking to go anywhere, which translated means he was not at that exact moment looking online for another place to live. Also, “I don’t consider lying to be dishonest, that’s more like stealing.” What the hell? Lying is the very definition of dishonesty. Also he told me that we should get a boat because I had always wanted one. Really? I never knew that about myself. Good thing he enlightened me.
Can’t say our therapist said anything stupid, she really just sat there and listened to us bitch and moan. Finally figured out I could do that to my friends for free.
Thankfully, my/our counselor pegged him as a narc, Day 1.
Stupid shit my ex said? As we’re in a family counseling session. My kids are bawling. Telling him, their feelings. My ex expresses nothing. Suddenly, he throws himself over the arm of the couch and starts crying…”I don’t know if my dad ever loved me.” What???!!!
My kids are upset over him leaving their mom/family for his affair partner but his daddy didn’t love him is the only thing he’s thinking of????! Poor victim narc.
That sounds fuckin’ scary OMG!!
Therapist spent several weeks telling me his cheating wasn’t the point and that Mr. Fantastic was the most closed-off person he’d ever seen. When the OW’s baby daddy outed Mr. F as pursuing her still, I fired Mr. Fantastic from therapy and told the therapist about it. Who threw a huge, curse-laden tantrum about how XH had LIED to him… and then made a pass at me.
On the fuckwit’s behavior in therapy: After OW#1 we did 3 sessions of MC. It ended when we got to his issues and he simply refused to go any more. When filling out the questionnaire at the beginning, one question for the spouse having the affair was, “Do you feel guilt?” X Asshat looked up and sneered at me with his sing-songy hateful voice, “Guilt, huh. You would loovve that, woouuldnn’t yoooou!!?” I should have left him on that basis alone, it told me everything I needed to know. Instead I pick me danced and was with that asshole for the next 9 years before he poofed on me completely for OW#2.
On terrible therapists: After the final shocking abandonment with him moving out while I was on a business trip, receiving an e-mail as my notice from him, the crisis counselor I saw didn’t believe that he really did that. She yawned her way through our 3 sessions and said, “Well…if what you say is true….” Sheesh. I was still in shock and barely believed it myself. Trying to avoid eating a bullet, I had to sit with a complete dumbass who somehow thought I was making up this shit. Whattabitch.
I finally saw someone 4 months later that helped me find a little peace IRL, but mostly I had to do the work myself. Chump Lady has been the best therapy I could ever have.
“Chump Lady has been the best therapy I could ever have.” ????????????????
For the record, I have an incredibly awesome psychologist. But this blog is what first taught me to think critically. When my psychologist started looking into Esther Perel I knew enough to shut that down. I forwarded her the CL articles critiquing EP and she agreed that EP is a cheater apologist, not evidence-based, and not in line with her own values as a feminist psychologist. Now I regularly bring up CL articles during session and she helps me work through how to align my choices to my values (“is this acceptable to you?”)
I made the mistake of trying to reason with cheater for a time, and bringing up CL points to do so. He kept telling me not to read CL because it would ruin any chance at wreckconciliation and make me bitter. But my psychologist disagreed (both with my trying to reason with him and with his assessment of CL), acknowledging the “therapeutic value” of this blog, and telling me how beneficial it is.
Thank you, CL.
The first psychiatrist I saw over 30 years ago told me STBX “is unable to give or receive love.” I still remember that. The next therapist couldn’t counsel STBX because he “triggered her anger.” Then there was the one who said he scared her. And the final one told me I needed to get away from him or the rest of my life would be ruined. I didn’t listen to any of them. Why? I don’t know. Codependency, fear, hopium… maybe just because I’m a chump. I finally woke up to reality and I’m working on living my best life cheater free. All of the professionals I saw urged me to get away. He is a mess of a human who leaves a path of destruction in his wake. I’m not going to be a part of that anymore.
Another one saying my therapists were great, and I was the one who wouldn’t listen! Not like they were “telling” me what to do- a good therapist knows that usually doesn’t work- but they were trying to tell me in other ways! Denial is a powerful force!
Oh, therapists. I have so many things to say…..
In the first couple of sessions of marriage therapy, the ex and I were telling such different stories that the therapist asked to see our five children to find out what the truth was. The kids basically told him that Dad is an ass and treats Mom like dirt. So therapist wanted sessions alone with the ex. Which led to a string of missed and broken appointments. Sigh.
I saw the therapist alone for a long time. On the one hand it helped me to have someone to talk to. But since he was theoretically our “marriage therapist” he never once told me that I was being gaslighted and emotionally abused. His goal was STILL to save the marriage instead of to help the client in front of him. I saw that damn therapist on and off for two or three years.
Around the time that I made the decision to file for divorce I went to see the therapist one last time. I told him that I was very upset/angry that he had not suggested to me that I was being abused. The goofy asshole FINALLY told me that he thought the ex has a personality disorder. And then he got this sheepish little grin and said, “but I just can’t help liking him.” GRRRR.
Re: helping the marriage instead of the client – that’s the fundamental flaw right there with marriage counselors. For them, the marriage IS the client. Maybe that’s a fine goal for those who are solely working on communication issues, or simply trying to hammer out which in-laws to see during the holidays. But for those of us being abused (emotionally, physically, sexually, spiritually – i.e. everything cheating encompasses), this is straight-up UNETHICAL.
It was similar…. my therapist told me ( separate session) that since we started it as a couple counseling and our contract is based on helping
“ us”- she is bonded to helping both of us;
She suggested other person- to deal with my PTSD
We didn’t last long… but during my last call with her, she mentioned that my concerns ( narc) May be real( at this point I was mentioning psychopathy)
Never mentioned abuse
Never told me to get the hell out
Tested him for PTSD and other stuff- everything clear.
Now I know that PTSD requires guilt, values and character…. if you are perfectly ok with what you do- you feel good.
My h felt good and was annoyed by my constant
“ attacks” on his character
Totally agree with you, Hopeful. Making a battered victim stay with an abuser as goal for counseling is dangerously misguided.
I had a friend who went to couple’s counseling because her husband was a violent alcoholic who beat his wife and children AND was also having affairs. So what did the therapist tell HER to do? Dress more sexy and dance to please HIM.
The counseling advice prolonged the abuse in the family (the fall-out for the kids later on was tremendous). It wasn’t until the end, when my friend saw the counselor on her own, that the counselor APOLOGIZED for not seeing through the husband’s lies and charm, and finally recommended she divorce him.
Needless to say, my friend is very bitter towards therapists and won’t go see them for her own personal issues. I know she still has PTSD from being a battered wife.. even though it was decades ago.
After D-Day, an anonymous letter sent to my work, she set up an appointment to see a therapist. Thousands of texts that were erased, secret meetings, and many lies about whereabouts etc. She denied an “affair”. I needed the shrink, ANY person really, to tell me what I was feeling was betrayal and subsequent depression and that what she did was very wrong. I was confused AF and tried reconciling in the face of all that. The shrink never said shit. In hindsight, those two years in therapy probably F’ed me up more than the actual betrayal( which apparently isn’t betrayal because they were just friends). Still recovering, but in my own with an amazing therapist.
I was also told to have a psych eval because I was divining these awful stories about my husband. I’m so embarrassed to say that I actually had it done. I came home and said to wh “the diagnosis (after 3.5 hours) was that I do not have a psych problem, I have a marriage problem.” He just shrugged. I could cry thinking about what abuse I experienced during that time. Later that night I was walking the dog and a neighbor said “I wish my h was more like yours” and I sobbed in her arms. God that was a bad time.
hollow bunny,
Good for the person who did the eval. and saw that you weren’t the problem. That speaks volumes.
When I was going through the pick-me- dancing/RIC stage I underwent tons of emotional abuse BUT I didn’t even realize it at the time because I was being ‘understanding’ thinking he was going through a nervous breakdown.
I simply didn’t take what he was saying or doing personally. A very good friend of mine was shocked and said, “That isn’t the way a husband talks to a wife.” I was clueless as to what she meant by that statement because I had been taking it for so long it had become ‘normal’ to me.
I have come a long way and now realize the power of our minds and how they actually shove stuff down into our subconscious minds in order to protect us. If I had known and understood all of what I know and understand now I wouldn’t have survived.
It has been a slow revelation and for that I am grateful although I would like to get through these memories popping up all the time. He has the life he wants now and I want my life too!
Patience and Trust.
I felt my heart break as I read this. You took me to that walk in your neighborhood and your encounter with that woman. From the depths of me, I hope that you are well and happy and living a sweet life.
Stupid shit my STBX said at the first marriage therapy appointment:
Therapist: “Why are you here today?”
Ex: “Well-I was having coffee with a woman-and we started to have a lot of coffee together.”
It was at that point I knew 2 things: 1) We weren’t going to get anywhere with counseling because he was in denial and 2) People who go to Starbucks often must be nymphomaniacs. ????????????????????
My ex was seeing a therapist when he started his affair. He later told me that his therapist said it sounded like he was going into the affair with his “eyes wide open”. The therapist was cool with it, why wasn’t I? ????????
My sister’s marriage counselor met with him first, and then had my sister come in separately after. She immediately told my sister that there was nothing to work with and she needs to considered separating herself from him!!! Later, after she ignored that and he said he would no longer cheat :(, they had a wedding vow renewal ceremony. Looking back she realized the Priest had attempted to warn her that something was off with him—– She ignored it.
She woke up full on though after she caught him cheating within a couple of days of that ceremony. I am happy to say she finally divorced him, and now 20 years later is very happy and content with the new partner she met a couple of years after that divorce. The ex is still with Shmoopie.
She is pretty much a psycho and is paranoid and controls his every move. My sister finds it mildly amusing but really doesn’t care, just feels bad for their children who witness the freak-show.
My MC pulled me aside in private and gave me a copy of “Women Who Love Psychopaths”. He also told me to prepare for divorce and even found me a place to stay for free in an elderly person’s house in exchange for house work, etc…
Wow SeaChump he sounds awesome. What a lovely things to do.
cheater XW would lie during marriage counseling then when we went home we would have these weird debriefing sessions where she would tell me the truth about all the things she lied about during the session. Then in the next session I would have to update the therapist on what was revealed. This went on for two months before I finally pulled the plug. XW didn’t want to tell the female therapist anything herself.
Haha! My ex was seeing his own therapist about his voyeurism, flirting, emotional affairs, and porn “addiction.” Id suffered through 26 years of that crap and was finally putting my foot down (ah, hopium makes us do strange things).
The therapist wanted to speak with me privately in a special session. He asked me if i had any “secrets.” I was blown away. Secrets?! He said that my husband was such a “nice guy” that surely I was “forcing” him to seek therapy because i actually had an affair going on and wanted a way out. I was flabbergasted.
I continue to rage about that – not only that the therapist was blaming me in his own mind but that my husband had totally “narc-ed” the therapist to garner sympathy as if HE was the victim. Ugly.
Their ability to get sympathy from others is mind boggling. I was (and am still) amazed by it. I now see the reality of how much of a mental psycho you have to be to con people like that. I feel fortunate to have escaped. I still deal with XW doing this though as she is now doing it on our daughter.
It is mind boggling, and very scary to me. How to trust anyone?
Thanks for replying. The more I read comments, the less alone I feel.
I tried several therapist clowns who disqualified themselves in the first session. One spewed verbal diarrhea all over me about his own problems. Eventually, after my own crisis subsided, I reported him to his licensing board and 2 years later the board revoked his license. The revocation cited 2 complaints.
I wish I had been well enough to report him sooner. And after experiencing competent therapists, who were nothing like this clown, I regret not reporting the other clowns. Licensing boards are the profession’s quality control system but the system cannot work without reports. Timely reports are invaluable.
If others before us had reported these clowns, they would have received remedial training or stopped practicing and would not have been available to damage us!
I’ve said this before, I believe. Our MC said I had to change the way I think and speak or he might “bolt”. Fuck that! Let him!
Sayonara asshole.
One more thing. I am extremely grateful that my ex thought that therapists were full of shit and more messed up than the normal population. He was very opinionated on that and refused to see a marriage counselor when I begged him to after discovery. That of course was coming from him being slightly narcissitic in thinking he is smarter than EVERYONE, and how could a therapist be smarter than him? Anyway, I am grateful now from the sounds of what I am reading here!!
During Wreckonciliation and after, I saw a few different individual and group counselors (first time in my life). They were all wonderful, except one having the opinion to keep the cheating a secret from my son, which I knew better by then anyway.
Oh, you guys…I dragged my fuckwit to Boston to see famed King of the RIC Terry Real. You know, the “if you’re on the brink of divorce, come see me!” guy. Five hours and several thousand dollars later, he asked me what I was looking for from my husband. I said “Reassurance that if we reconcile, he will never do this to me again.” Terry’s reply? “Well, there’s no such thing as a ‘safe marriage.’ All relationships are inherently risky.” My reply to that? “Absolutely. Life is full of risks. BUT…there are people who take their marriage vows, and the commitment they made to another person, very seriously. And these people have a moral compass, a sense of integrity – in other words, they know right from wrong. Know how I know that this is true? I’m one of those people.”
That was followed by a change in subject to how I need to establish boundaries for myself, yada yada yada…gah, just thinking about that appointment makes me want to vomit.
I appreciated Real’s book about male depression but when I heard he paired up with Fester Purell, I changed my mind about him.
First therapist (my personal therapist, who was objectively bonkers) suggested bringing him in. He came to two sessions at which they commiserated over my awfulness and therapist gave (pregnant) me excellent advice like “You have to ASK him to treat you like a human being. He can’t read minds.” My best friends made me fire her.
My next therapist read the emails he had sent to me detailing my MANY failings and said, “So. Have you ever heard of Narcissistic Personality Disorder?” And that was that. He was diagnosed in a subsequent court-ordered psych eval.
Now I’M a therapist and I do not see *couples* if there is any indication of PD, infidelity, or other abuse. It is unethical and irresponsible to do so.
One of those RIC doctors claims it is unethical for a counselor who has never seen the person to diagnose them as a narcissist. I say if it walks and talks like a duck, it is most likely a duck. So, call it, so the spouse can flee and recover from the abuse.
Oh yes..my ex had a therapist who when just after d-day with a 2 month old, my ex lame ted that I was just “so upset” and his therapist told him “she is upset but like pinball her quarter will soon run out.” WTAF. Like my feelings were just a mechanical reaction and had nothing to do with him at all? He also asked if I can give him room to do whatever sadsack thing he wanted to do and when I just said I’d try, he quoted Yoda at me “there is no try, only do.” Oh AND after knowing only what my conniving, liar of an ex told him about our relationship, he said that it was “played out.” He said we shouldn’t do couples therapy and also managed to lay all of the blame for my ex’s behavior squarely on me. That guy still makes me mad when I think about what a terrible therapist he isl.
Our therapist asked the asshat if he was mourning his affair partner. She then showed surprise when I got angry. She told me another time that I should not show mt anger because it would drive him away. I thought I was losing my mind. The therapist did so much damage to me. I wish them both hell.
We went to this therapist after out of the blue he said he met someone and wanted a divorce.
On my last visit by myself I told her how he told me he was divorcing me. He told me as we were getting into bed for the night. He then rolled over and went to sleep. I had no idea this was happening. When I started crying he told me I was overreacting and he was going to leave because he didn’t want to listen. The therapist got a funny look on her face and whispered “narcissist” .
There was the marital therapist we saw three times who spent his nights playing in a jazz band. The third time we saw him, he showed up for therapy wearing leather pants. As I broke down in tears describing my then-husband’s bouts of rage and his disengagement with our children and home life, I looked over and discovered Leather Pants had fallen asleep. The ex interrupted me to explain how I was wrong and the solution to our problems was to hire more household help since I was clearly incapable of handling life as a mom. Leather Pants woke up long enough to agree with him.
That was the last time we saw that therapist, but not the last asshat therapist we saw.