Did you see this story last week? About the guy in North Carolina who sued his wife’s affair partner with a “homewrecker” law — and won a $750,000 verdict?
North Carolina is one of 8 states that still has “alienation of affection” laws on the books, although they are rarely enforced. So, this win is something like a two-headed calf of karmic justice and people are losing their shit about it.
The verdict was even a topic of conversation on The View. (To our non-U.S. reading audience, a popular women’s talk show.)
Co-host Sunny Hostin told the panel that she would do the same thing if she ever found herself in [the chump’s] situation. “I’m in support of this law. I have no problem with it,” said Hostin. “I think that if someone knows the other person is married and decides to be an interloper then they can get sued. I would do it,” she added.
(Apparently, most people on Twitter were #TeamSunny on this.)
The chump who filed the lawsuit, Robert Kevin Howard, did it after months of marriage counseling with his cheating wife (aka cake-eating; aka pick me dancing). By June 23, 2017 he’d had enough. He brought suit about 2 weeks later and was divorced by September.
“I filed the case because I felt it’s very important that people understand that the sanctity of marriage is important, especially in this day and age when people question everyone’s morals, people question everyone’s viability as a person,” he told WITN. “And the state backed me up on it.”
Lots of folks in CN have sent this article to me for a reaction. So here it is:
1.) Why didn’t the wife get sued? She did. It’s called divorce. I do agree the cheating wife sucks more than the affair partner, but Schmoopies have culpability too. And 8 states recognize that — so pro tip: don’t fuck married people in those states. If the cheating wife feels really terrible about the injustice of the verdict, she can kick in for Schmoop’s legal defense, like a pal.
2.) This is not the patriarchy. This is about being defrauded. A lot of the comments I read were about how backassward North Carolina is, and the law is about wives being their husbands’ chattel. Look, the law works the other way too — women can sue their husband’s mistresses. (Would it get a big verdict? That’s debatable. We’re used to women chumps eating shit sandwiches.)
I see it this way — you had a thing of “value” — a family, a marriage — and Schmoopie conspired to damage and defraud you, and harmed your family. I agree the #1 bad guy is the cheating spouse — but Schmoops drove the getaway car.
We live in a legal system where someone can have scalding coffee spilled on them at McDonalds and get millions in a verdict. (Which btw, I think is FAIR. McDonalds was warned their coffee was dangerously hot and didn’t change this until it got slapped with a verdict.) As a chump, would you rather be burned by coffee or burned by your partner? Which is worse?
In just about every other legal situation, we recognize the costs of defrauding people and harming innocents. Except in marriage. It used to be legal to rape your wife. That changed. Maybe this will too.
3.) The Washington Post’s coverage of this was awful. (And for the record, I love WaPo, so no “fake news” bashing PLEASE.)
I could UBT the entire thing. It’s Monday morning and I don’t have the time, but let’s begin with “scorned” husband, “consummating” their relationship, “paramour”, and the random lawyer quoted who was outraged and thinks children will be scarred by potentially reading legal documents.
Mom risking your intact home life and chumping dad for workplace sexy time at school? Oh yeah, nothing scarring about that. Dad trying to save the marriage while mom fucks around on him? Carry on! Mom screwing a man invited into your life as a family friend? Positively STABILIZING.
But, whatever you do — do NOT peek into that legal binder in 2026, children!
WTF Ashley Nicole Russell, Esq? You are a moron.
CN, what are your thoughts on this case?
I hadn’t heard of this case but good for him. As for the wife (who I think deserve more “punishment” than the AP), I hope she’s enjoying eh divorce and the notoriety! And for the AP, I hope she was worth it!
I live in North Carolina, and yes, both women and men have garnered sizable verdicts. I used this law as a chip to get my financial agreement signed quickly. Said once he signed it I waived my right to sue her.
I think it is PERFECTLY fine to use this law to get a good Divorce settlement and make the cheater pay and pay hard.
Yup. Same here.
Once deposing the AP was put on the table, settlement followed soon after.
We all knew shmuck put all the assets that had mysteriously disappeared where in her name.
She wasn’t nearly as good a liar as he was and definitely would have crumpled during a deposition. Plus they were still in hiding as lovers while being law partners in the same firm.
I think every state should allow APs to be sued.
And, by the way, my kids read every single divorce document, including both depositions. Legal documents are unemotional and I wanted them to read what happened for themselves.
Any scarring is the result of lying to them for so many years NOT reading legal documents.
“Legal documents are unemotional”
You are awesome! Your kids are too!
I think your posts rock ,and would love to be more like you.
That is beyond kind and melts my heart.
I’ve developed a no-nonsense approach to life as my way of surviving.
I hope you find a path that is way better than mine.
I’m not sure I will ever get beyond what was done to me. Yes, I live with it and do my very best. But I wish everyone here so much more!
can i ask how old your kids were when they read these docs?
was there material of a graphic sexual nature?
mine are still too young to understand
(as if another decade of life passes & they’ll suddenly be good to learn that mommy was a whore)
…but i’m curious as to when you began
allowing them to see (read) for themselves
thx…and stay mighty!
They were 18 and 23.
The law didn’t really care about sex. It was all about misuse of funds. All the law can do is deal with money.
The depositions did catch him in a million lies and mine was just plain old sad to read.
May be a bit different since they knew her quite well for many, many years.
I personally did not think they were too young at all. They read the truth of what their father did to their mother and, frankly, to them. Nothing exists in a bubble.
I also don’t believe in protecting the children. They know way more than you think!
Complete honesty made them realize they could trust me 100%.
Me too! I live in North Carolina and used this during mediation. Got the house and spousal support…. and they are divorced already. Lasted less than 2 years for them.
I wish I could have sued her for alienation of affection. She was a friend and KNEW we were married. She wanted a sugar daddy. She cast her lures for multiple men. Mine was the only one spineless enough not to stand up to her.
Mine too. She purposely set out to lure a “rich” farmer because she wanted her own farm and couldn’t make it happen. He apparently couldn’t resist his “soul mates” praise. She met me and our 2 kiddos shortly after meeting him. She knew he had a family and didn’t care. I looked into this law and unfortunately CO wasn’t one of the eight states where you could sue. But my wasband did the same to me in that we were in marriage counseling but he was still seeing her and doing everything he could to shut me out financially. She’s welcome to him and he deserves the gold digger!
A man was awarded 8.8 MILLION in 2018 in NC for the same thing. $2.2 million in compensatory damages and $6.6 million in punitive damages. I don’t know if it stuck, but a judge ordered it. Personally, I wish I lived in NC now, because I’d be RICH.
I definitely can sympathize/empathize w/you. My POS XW’s AP (and still current partner) is by all accounts at least a millionaire and possibly a multimillionaire. Obviously she doesn’t mind him being the sugar daddy I used to be, but w/me It was on a much more normal scale. l would love to hit the bastard where it hurts, which is his money. He cares about his money so, so much that, for example, he tries to avoid going to the doctor even though he’s older than the whore XW (he’s 66 years old) and even if he’s really hurt himself (info courtesy of my son).
In other words, he’s a rich, MISERLY bastard who only spends money when it REALLY means something to him personally (narcissist, anyone?). This despite the fact that he holds one of the most prominent jobs in higher education in our state, and earns close to $300,000 a year in salary and has great benefits (like a free car every few years, w/most if not all expenses covered). That should give you a better idea of what a total fuckwit he is.
But our state is a no-fault state, so I’m never going to see a dime of money coming from him directly to me. The best I can hope for is if he’d pay for my son’s college tuition. Which I’m not sure is a good idea, as my fourteen year old son might not understand why his dad thinks his mother and her AP should pay for his college tuition. He’s too young to have to deal w/the fact that his mother threw away the free in-state tuition for all of our three kids, that she got through her job, by betraying her spouse through infidelity w/her (now) former boss.
Yeah, funny, their workplace let the XW’s POS AP keep working in his grand position, but the POS XW got the axe and our kids suffered because of it. Her partner supposedly offered to pay for my younger daughter’s college education (the oldest daughter was just finishing up her senior year abroad when I confronted the XW and their adultery came out), but she declined it. When I told her she shouldn’t hesitate to take his money after what her mother and he did to our family, she told me she wouldn’t feel comfortable taking money from a person she wasn’t even sure she’d have a good relationship w/in the future. I was proud of her, but at the same time I wished she’d stop being so noble and get something for herself out of the asshole.
As for the whore of an XW? Well, as many have said (including CL), I’m trying to get my revenge by LIVING WELL w/out her. By forgetting about her and him, and enjoying my life. It’s not easy, what w/me having to endure the fuckwittedness of the XW and her partner and how they are fucking w/our kids minds and emotions. I’m working on getting to meh, but it’s not been easy. However, I’m getting closer to it, slowly but surely.
I think we can all appreciate that this guy in NC got some recompense for dealing w/two adult fuckwits that should have known better about committing adultery, when instead they could have exited a relationship honorably if one or both of them weren’t happy. You’ve heard of the saying, “DON’T FUCK W/TEXAS!”, right? Now might be a good time to introduce the saying, “DON’T FUCK AROUND IN NORTH CAROLINA!”
I live in one of those eight states. I asked my attorney about this very law and she has clients who have tried this. She discouraged me from it because she said it is very difficult to prove. Further, she said that often times collecting the money is impossible. She said there was a multi-million dollar case in North Carolina where the person sued and won based on this statute. However, they have not been able to collect any money from it. Furthermore, she said the law is on the books because women used to be the property of men. She said the law is for the benefit of men. While I think on some level it would give karmic relief, ultimately I personally would not go through it. I want to move on with my life. The real karma is my happiness.
Yes. Moving on is the true karma. And I hope you are. But in cases where it can be proven, I would not mind that little satisfaction
Even if you never collect, some justice is inherent in the fact that a verdict was handed down, in court, for the record, for all who google to know what jackass these people are.
I live in NC. I don’t know about your state but in NC proving alienation of affection and criminal conversation (the so called heart balm actions, usually you sue for both) is not difficult at all. You need to prove that there was still a “real” affection between the former spouses and that the other took it away. Real marriage does not mean there were no problems. It means it was the marriage as many others, with ups and downs. In NC for courts it has deemed sufficient to have witnesses or photos of the two coming out of an hotel to prove they had an affair.
In my case I have videos of the two together (schmopie made it and send it to him) while at the same time she was living in my house and came to my son’s confirmation. My son might even have had a little crush on her. I have tons of proof and I could win I a jiffy. The problem is, and there your attorney may be right, she does not have any money and these lawsuits could become costly. I thought I was going after her right away with all I had. My attorney told me to wait until we finished with him. A year and a half later we are still waiting to close. I told him to use this as leverage to close with him in an advantageous way. He told me we should be careful of not being sued for abuse of power (threatening to sue to obtain something in exchange is illegal). But I really wanted to sue her. This person ruined my son’s family and took away a father from him. I know the worse is my husband, who supposedly was the adult in the relationship since he was 50 and she was 18 when they started it. But she was relentless I. Her pursue of him (I have emails where he tried to stop and she begs him not to). I read another case in NC where this lady sued and won for about $2m. She said she knew she might not collect the amount but she did for all other people that went through that. By the way, the children have a cause of action as well.
I would sue. Even if she doesn’t have any money now. By suing, you get to be first in line and make sure she never has a pot to piss in ever again.
I live in N.C. also. My attorney asked me about this and my response,”What would I get? A pickup truck and a crappy horse trailer?” He laughed. It just wasn’t worth the extra lawyer fees.
LMAO – this was great
I am glad that women have won these suits too so it isn’t just a case of “stolen property” as some want to portray it. It’s real damage done to real people who thought they were in good marriages.
Exactly. Nobody should be considered property in a marriage. But breaking contract?! Hell yes, you should have some threat of consequences if you do that, and in most other areas of law, you do! Why not here? Because it’s too hard?
I just had a discussion of this w/a friend who agreed to end his marriage w/his XW over 20 years ago. No affair. They don’t love each other anymore, but they can talk to each other when needed about their daughter because they ACTED LIKE ADULTS and got out of the marriage honorably.
He thinks that making consequences for the fuckwit behavior of adulterers won’t help anybody. I respectfully disagreed. I told him that even if someone doesn’t see a damn thing out of an action like the one the NC man had, the fact that it is recognized as shitty behavior by society in this way is HUGE (no, not a fan of our president).
It’s the willingness to make the chump shoulder all of the shit and the adulterers little or nothing that is so out of whack right now. I told him I didn’t want the Wild West days of divorce involving adultery, but the last 40-50 years of giving adulterers essentially a pass while smacking the chumps isn’t working either. We need to work on dealing w/divorces involving adultery in the legal system to find some middle ground.
It can only help chumps mentally, emotionally and spiritually to know that society recognizes more formally what a crock of shit it is to have to deal w/the fallout of an adulterous partner. That it didn’t have to be that way if the adulterous partner had acted as an adult instead of like a little child.
To each his/her own. Now going into year two of a very expensive divorce and custody battle, I have learned the justice system isn’t what I thought it would be. My lawyer has been involved in many of these alienation cases and her advice is to use my time and resources focusing on protecting my kids and healing myself. Anything else is prolonging the cost and pain in my opinion. I am taking Tracy’s advice….leave a cheater (completely) and gain a life.
I agree. My mom always told me, the best revenge is a life well lived. 🙂
He got a judgement that will never be collected. True justice would be having him tossed in the jailhouse. He can have plenty of affairs there with the Aryan Brotherhood.
I doubt the cheating wife was asked to pay the same amount, so I think she got away cheap with just divorce.
Which does make the sentence look like it’s about going after the person who “swayed” the poor cheater…
I think that’s just fine.
I agree — that part is dumb. Cheaters cheat because they want to. Not because APs have superpowers.
that’s my point too but I like the comment above about using this law to leverage a better divorce settlement. I did not think of that when I read this originally.
I applaud him! I read it! This sets a good precedent, the cheaters actions should be accountable in court.
The psychological abused is brutal!!!
Ooo I wish we had this in Illinois. But good for NC and this guy. Hopefully it can at least be a deterrent not to cheat. Cause commitment and marriage and vows don’t mean much to some people. But the fear of hitting their lover’s bank accounts may.
No……to some people they marriage means nothing. My ex wife of 24 years got re-married to the AP just 6 months after the divorce was final. She has now told my sister, just two weeks ago, that she is not happy and wanted to end it just two weeks after they got married. Her fucking comment to my sister was “when I was doing it I was thinking, at least is not as permanent as a tatoo” Fucking fuckwits!
It was removed from the Illinois books in January of 2016. I don’t recall it being used much, but I wasn’t paying attention to divorces and infidelities back then…
now I know more than I need to lol
Damn really? January 2016 is when I found out asshole was cheating. It took me 9 months to leave permanently. Shit, now I wish he was cheating on me sooner…wait, he prob was. LOL fuck him
I have confirmation of years of mental abuse and manipulation in a letter my husband wrote to me. I’m getting up the courage to go see an attorney. I’m betting this won’t make any difference in Illinois as to spousal support. Married 21 years. 61 years old. We’ll see…
Don’t make any assumptions!
I had an email from my ex that I repeatedly showed to my lawyers for 2 years.
Finally, when we were almost at the end, I showed them the letter for the upteenth time and guess what…that letter was on top of the pile of papers at his deposition and got me A LOT more maintenance.
Go see a few lawyers and go with the toughest one you can find and bring the letter!!
Thanks, Rebecca, I’ll give it a shot. My husband tried to begin an affair right in front of me, but I figured it out and he was unable to do so. I did learn, though about the manipulation and emotional abuse I kind of suspected, so I’ll need all the ammo I can get.
Follow the money thru bank, phone and credit card records.
I’m sorry to say that he probably found a way around you to have that affair or a different one.
Many of us here would have sworn our ex’s never had affairs only to find out they did.
I have thought for a while now that if the married spouse has sex with a schmoopie and does not tell the partner before they have sex again then it is rape.
I would not have slept with my stbx if I had known he was dipping his junk in to Slaggy-Anne. But I slept with him thinking we were monogamous. He knows I would not have agreed as after his first affair (fully signed up chump) I insisted on him being tested for std’s before I would sleep with him again. He knows I would have said no if I had known, ergo it was rape.
This should be law everywhere.
I agree. Morally, it is rape. The law will never recognize it as such, though. Laws are written and enforced mostly by men. It’s why 98% of legally prosecutable rapes are never prosecuted.
Part of the trauma of being cheated on is knowing I was repeatedly raped by the one person who was supposed to have my back. I’m in therapy, but I doubt you ever heal from that. I’ll never feel safe again.
Some consider it rape by fraud (Joyce Short’s blog).
I agree -there is such a thing as informed consent; without accurate information, the consent is at best misinformed and at worst; a death sentence.
I agree; any sex I had with Hannibal after his infidelity was non-consensual.
I’m also wondering about the possibility of bringing a claim for assault and battery, especially if the chump gets an STI.
If I could sue The Bonus Imposter, I would in a heartbeat. I wish Montana had alienation of affection laws.
Schmoopie as getaway car driver is a great analogy.
“We live in a legal system where someone can have scalding coffee spilled on them at McDonalds and get millions in a verdict. (Which btw, I think is FAIR. McDonalds was warned their coffee was dangerously hot and didn’t change this until it got slapped with a verdict.)”
People laugh about it but what happened to her was NOT funny.
“Ms. Liebeck had trouble removing the top, and because the dashboard was slanted and there was no cup holder in the car, she placed the cup in her lap as she tried to pry the top open. Ms. Liebeck tugged at the lid, and the coffee gushed out over her legs. The coffee McDonald’s served her was 180 degrees, and Ms. Liebeck, who was 79 years old at the time, suffered from second- and third-degree burns. These burns were severe, and covered her labia, buttocks, and inner thighs.
Ms. Liebeck was hospitalized for seven days and spent another three weeks recuperating at home. She had to be re-hospitalized later to receive skin grafts in order to repair some of the damage from her burns. The pain from the grafts, according to Ms. Liebeck’s daughter, was almost as severe as the original burning, and she did not think that her mother would survive.
Ms. Liebeck was practically immobilized and had lost twenty pounds during this excruciating ordeal. She suffers from permanent scarring over sixteen percent of her body.
The family sought to have McDonald’s pay their out-of-pocket medical and other expenses, which were about $20,000. McDonald’s offered $800.
It was revealed at trial, however, that McDonald’s had received at least 700 complaints of severe burning due to the scalding temperatures of the coffee they serve. While other establishments sell their coffee at 135 to 140 degrees Fahrenheit, McDonald’s actively enforced a 185-degree rule.”
I’m on Team Stella on this. She was awarded the high amount because the jury was PISSED over the way she was treated and it was them who decided on the large award. All that all she had asked for was a bit more than her medical costs in punitive damages and attorneys fees.
The award amount was later reduced by an appellate court to approximately $5million. The facts claimed above are what the plaintiffs argued ( and what the jury chose to believe), which is not necessarily all true.
But I digress.
I’m happy for the chump husband here. He made his point. Good for him.
Actually, $750,000 was not one of the largest awards. As to collecting, the ones who received judgement better never have nothing in their name for at least 10 years because you can go after their assets. Another thing is if ex and schmopie decide to get married then you can go after ex for the rest if they don’t write a separation agreement. when I was studying for the Bar here in NC (still married to ex then) I remember telling my ex I thought these claims of action were almost lyrical.
She was talking about the Stella Liebeck case, not the alienation of affection case, although the Liebeck award was pared way down by the appellate court
I wish this law was on the books in my state. I would have sued my cousin. She knew that my Ex was married and she did not give a crap. She knew exactly what she was doing. She basically had apart in ripping my life apart with no conscquences. I also wish there were laws that protected chumps. The cheater should have to pay out more due to they were the ones who chose to break their marital vows.
I am glad that he sued and won. At least the other man was forced to deal with the conscquences.
Actions have consequences.
Does it matter if the law exists because women were once considered property? Does that change the way we use it now to hold people accountable for their actions? Does going after the affair partner with this law somehow make a woman property again? Of course not. Using that as some sort of excuse is side tracking the discussion at hand which is…..how culpable is the affair partner?
There are plenty of laws in this country created for one reason and used for another. There are drugs developed for one reason that end up saving lives when used for another reason. Anyone can use this law.
Well, I guess I won’t be popular in this forum, but as a European I find these aspects of the US legal system to be bizarre. Should the cheater and OP be revealed and publicly shamed? Absolutely! But should the OP be fined $750 000 and face financial ruin? No, that’s ridiculous!
Yes, I feel the other person should face financial ruin. The chump life was ripped apart. The chump usually is finally ruined. May have been given an STD. The other person knew dam well they were married. And they benefited from the cheater spending marital money on them. The other person had control over the chumps life and the chump had no clue. Who gives a dam if the other person is financially ruined. They sure did not care about the chump.
Sorry for the typos. Financially ruined not finally ruined.
I went from a comfortable middle class life to being without a home or even car. All I had at the end of my divorce were two babies to feed. By the way he didn’t pay child support or medical insurance for them either. I was as financially ruined as ruined gets. He was given the house, which he immediately let go into foreclosure. So, he ruined my credit rating so I could not get a credit card or mortgage for more than ten years even though I had a court order proving the debt wasn’t mine. The legal system allowed THAT for me and my kids and nobody cried a tear or was outraged for me on talk shows! As far as collecting a judgement–that’s always near impossible. A court order is only as good as the human being it is handed to. BUT, it would be at least some small measure of social solidarity to know that culturally people cared that you and your kids were harmed in such a despicable way.
I’m sorry that happened to you. This is an excellent case of the real impact of fuckwit behavior. Nothing defiantly exuberant about raising two babies alone homeless, carless and with ruined credit.
I hope your situation is better now.
Thank you. It was a long time ago. I went back to school and lived in student housing. We couldn’t afford a car for three years. We had no medical coverage and I made $11,000 a year for four years. Eventually I got a PhD. My girls grew up poor, but so much less damaged by being removed from him. One owns her own hair salon and one has a degree in social work. They both have families of their own. I eventually remarried a lovely man. But, it was a pretty hard ten years. It is my experience that whoever is the more responsible person is the one most punished by our legal system. Anyone buying the “no consequences for cheaters and their schmoopies” schtick is at some level buying into the “it’s nobodies fault because…love” lie that surrounds infidelity.
I, for one wouldn’t give a flying rat’s behind if the OP face financial ruin. I certainly did when this all went down. If I heard that something calamitous happened to either one I’d get hungry for a hot pocket.
I dunno. You don’t steal stuff that isn’t yours just because you want it. The married man/woman is off limits, in my book. They aren’t on the market. You don’t move into a house you haven’t signed documents to give you that right. Otherwise, you are simply a squatter, and should be treated as such. Evict that squatter and sue them for damages.
States that allow Alienation of Affection are (according to Professor Google): HI, IL, MI, NC, NM, SD, UT.
Why is it ridiculous? Please explain your reasoning.
The chump faces emotional ruin and possibly financial ruin in a divorce. Why should the chump be the one to suffer and not the person who helped cause this suffering?
Financial ruin is what they deserve. My cousin sure did not give a rats behind about me. While my husband was spending god knows how much money on her. I was struggling to pay the bills. I was forced to get a credit card to pay the property taxes. That is what my husband used as a reason for filing for divorce. He then stopped the divorce.
When I found out and my husband filed. I had $200.00 to my name. While he had at least $20000.00 stashed in his parents safe. My cousins financial future doesn’t concern me. She deserved financial ruin. After I got my bearings I filed for divorce on my terms.
I’m European too and I long for the day adultery becomes a real financial responsibility again.
Marriage is currently the only legally binding contract you can breach without being financially sanctioned.
If you are asked to pay spousal or children support, it barely covers what is necessary, it is in no way a financial remuneration for the damage sustained!
I want chumps to be financially compensated for what they went through and nowadays they are impoverished as a consequence for acts they didn’t commit! Especially since all other forms of illegal activity warrants it! You get a fine for not having a bus ticket or littering the streets, but you cheat on your marriage and nothing happens? It is well a testament of the moral/value crisis we are in.
☝️☝️☝️ Well said.
It’s not an aspect of the US legal system-as many of us on the forum have pointed out, most states don’t allow this lawsuit. Many of us wish the US legal system were that bizarre.
The OP does not care about what predicament he/she leaves a chump in….and the are a direct cause of what can happen to a chump. Why is it ….if the affairees plot to murder a chump….both are held responsible if caught….but if its only financial ruin…only the spouse is the guilty party….i know for a fact in my case they both plotted to get an unfair advantage of both myself and our children …..but i just plodded away disproving everything they hurled at me in the 2 years it took to get a fairish settlement for both my kids and i ….where are those two today? Divorced with 2 restraining orders on each other ….because they both were evil sods ….who eventually turned on each other
You are right Jasmine and at least in your case you can rightfully say that karma is a b…
After a year and a half into this without having close it yet I am really starting to think schmoopiee did me a favor though because if I didn’t find out about the affair I would have continued with this poor excuse for a man, loving him while he was gaslighting me and making me feel smaller and guiltiest every day, playing on my insecurities. We may not think that way now but all of us chumps will come to realize at one point that we were given a gift on D-day.
Oh how I wish I lived in one of the 8 states howorker is a trust fund baby, was married and knew all about me. I would sue for everything she had. My pick me dance lasted for 2 years before I said enough. I think the pain and anguish cheater caused to me and our kids is worth it.
Trust funds are usually airtight legally to avoid any restitution from a lawsuit. Or a LLC (limited liability corporation).
I loved this story. I know for an absolute fact that the slut puppet knowingly targeted several married men before settling on my husband. Her husband had gotten a girl friend when they were married so what does she do? Fuck married men and blow up lives. I live in a state too that still has alienation of affection laws but my attorney said no one ever enforces it. If I thought I had a chance at it, I would have sued her socks off.
Actually, to my knowledge there are only 2 states where heart balm actions are alive and well. NC has tons of cases where the spouse (wife or husband, so no equality argument Against it here) used and won. Simple to prove; the law is pretty clear here. Juries don’t like cheaters in NC but there are cases where’s they found it was not so otrageous and they awarded small sums. The amount of damages is never based on how much the schmopie has in The bank; it’s based on how shitty she/he acted. I don’t know about other states, in NC if you have a decent case based in the law you can win. The cost of it is another matter.
This makes me want to lobby to have such a law enacted in my state.
I’m thinking about it.
I inquired about this law, my Ex’s AP was in Chicago. They do have it on the books. But….Smoochie came from the projects and I would have to spend tens of thousands for an attorney in Illinois to represent me…we live in Pennsylvania. So suing the ghetto rat would have cost me even more money…she was not worth it.
I do believe this law should be in place…a LEGAL CONTRACT was broken. In every other type of Legallly binding contract you can sue for breach of contract. The ramifications of divorce on your future are many and expensive.
I realize you can’t get blood from a rock… and principles cost money.
I ended up working for my divorce attorney for the last 2 years of my divorce. It took 5 1/2 years to divorce him. He dragged everything out…lost his attorney and represented himself. It was a nightmare.
Meanwhile his ghetto rat lived in my house…used my Christmas decorations and lived “high on the hog”.
I have to let Karma take care of her someday. They will get theirs…some day….some how. I’m just not spending my money to do it.
Hugs for you Tracy! This is exactly how I feel. They are so not worth it. An expensive, long and nasty divorce with what sounds like a narcissist is painful enough. I hope you are nearing the end and live a wonderful, narc-free life full of happiness. ❤️
Oh Tracy, I am so sorry. It hurts to know your husband left you for that.
My STBX has a thirty-two year old hood rat. That whore is only seven years older than our oldest son. She thinks she is going to have my life. She can never be me.
She thinks she has hit the jackpot. What she has is a sick, fat old narcissist who is going to lose half of his pensions and at least 33 1/3% of his income. She loves his wallet. She is the side chick. His howorker is his one twu wuv. I don’t even bother making sure howorker knows about the ghetto rat. All I want is a divorce decree suitable for framing, spousal maintenance, one of his HotRods and half of his pensions. They can sleep in a heap and share STIs. I’m done.
I almost understand the howorker. She is a fine, Christian woman. She worships him. But I’m bewildered by the ghetto rat whore. Why did he marry me, stay married for so long, have children with me when that is the kind of woman he wanted? None of these musings matter. I am out now.
I am so glad you left his sorry ass. I hope every day brings you peace and healing. You deserve so much better.
Why shouldn’t they face ruin? They ruined a marriage. They ruined a family. They earned financial ruin. Whores should at least pay for the betrayed spouses court costs and lawyer’s fees. I would love for there to be more consequences for adultery.
I am a classic SAHM. I never had a career. I never will. I am too old now. I would love for his thirty-two year old hood rat to send me a check monthly. It would delight me to have his howorker pay up. I deserve financial recompense for the pain and suffering their actions have caused me. I deserve a payout for the STI that will go to the grave with me. Those whores should pay me.
In some states you still can sue if he subjected you to an STI. Can you pursue that?
In Michigan, infidelity is a felony. However, does not appear the law is ever used. Nice to read about AP’s being punished. I know the one the pursued my ex was relentless as he tried to break if off several times. All good tho – as in the end I do not want to be married to a cheater.
Ex tried to break it off with AP and she wrote letters, cried blah blah blah
By that point your husband had already cheated.
If it was ok to cheat so are the consequences.
This should be an option everywhere.
Whether he’s able to collect on the judgement or not, his story is now out there. Helps to change the narrative. Both the cheater and affair partner are exposed. That’s all I’ve wanted: the truth put out there.
That Ashley Nicole Russell, Esq website. That’s a money-making scheme if I ever saw one based on a totally misrepresentation of the truth. Legal Image management no?
One of the commenters here wrote that this law
has been applied successfully against female
affair partners. Hmmmm … I’d like to see
proof of that. As I do strongly suspect that women would have a MUCH harder time prevailing. Women, no doubt, deserve it. Men, no doubt, have their “reasons.”
I actually looked into this, but my state repealed alienation of affections laws when it instituted no-fault divorce. Had I been able to use it, I might have tried going for the company they both worked for since she was screwing her boss. Everyone there knew.
There is ample case law on this in NC: cases brought against the female or male schmopie were won without any difference and awards were equally high, independent of sex. Even NC Supreme Court confirmed that it will be applied Both ways. It’s funny To me that this case for “only” 750000 award made national news while others for $8m and $2m didn’t.
It’s about time the affair person had to face actions for their consequences. Too many people say it had nothing to do with them. That’s a load of crap. They knew what they were doing. Your husband, wife, partner is responsible. You get sick of the apparent innocent of the affair partner. My ex’s ow, was a piece of crap so was my ex. You could say they deserved each other.
I live in NC and wish I had had my wits about me when I hit Dday and the consequent legal proceedings. My lawyer sent a satisfyingly ominous letter to OW threatening to sue her (Alienation of Affection AND there’s another charge of “Criminal Conversation” which is applicable as well), and we used that as leverage to get ex-Sparkles to sign off on an agreement that benefited me more, but dammit if he didn’t come back and file a motion a couple years later and guess what? All is forgotten and we have to pretend we split amicably. I’m pissed at my lawyer for a lot of reasons, and this is definitely one of them. Especially since OW had a reputation as a classic homewrecker and it would have been pretty easy to build a case…ugh…
In other news, I’m taking the LSAT next month…
Congrats, Supine, you rock!
Good luck Supine! Being a lawyer is very empowering! I took the CA bar and passed 4 years ago – it felt great to know that even in the midst of my hellish divorce I could build a life in this way!
I am an NC chump I used the law as Leverage to get a favorable settlement from McCheater pants. My ducks in a row proof with my lawyer he was scared to take his chance in NC court . My lawyer asked what I wanted, I said he would never sign the agreement, she begged to differ ???? HE SIGNED ! I walked with a 90/10 split and my Dignity… him well , people find out anyway ???? funny that , guess he should have hired a lawyer too , and asked for a sealed agreement ???? This new case in NC just helps keep ex- McCheaterpants in line with our settlement PRICELESS
I wish it was that way here. Schmoopie is well off that why wackjob is with her after stealing my life savings so I could have potentially made her replace what he took. That would have been karma and he would have paid to since that would mean she didn’t have the money to carry him any more.
IMHO, if marriage is considered a legal and binding contract, then an interloper in to that contract is in essence supporting fraud being committed. They have legal accountability in the dissolution of the marriage contract. The challenge is that the schmoopie doesn’t always know the whole truth either (Mr. Sparkles told his final OW that we were already taking separate vacations with the kids and filing for divorce. Where she showed her character was after I told her none of that was true and it took me an additional 12 months to finally file because Mr. Sparkles never wanted to discuss divorce… she didn’t step away, she doubled-down, silly girl.)
So then, I named Mr. Sparkles schmoopie in my divorce filing as I included “adultery” in my application for divorce. We are a no fault state here in NJ, but I felt it was important morally and for historical record that Mr. Sparkles and the OW were the active “agents” in the final dissolution of my marriage. (For the record, Mr. Sparkles was never faithful, he’s a whore and she was just next.)
Ironically, after the OW subsequently dumped Mr. Sparkles for cheating on her, I was able to negotiate a better settlement because Mr. Sparkles desperately wanted the adultery charge dropped – so it became a bargaining chip for me.
And, I will say this… I was never so happy to have a signed pre-nuptial agreement (sixth sense?) as I was on the day he left. So again, love is love… but marriage is a binding agreement (financially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually.)… if you don’t like it, you leave the contract through legal means, not through a schmoopie.
Frankly, any time I see a chump able to eke even one small iota of resources for themselves and their children out of the flaming garbage pile that is divorce, I applaud it. It’s entirely bizarre that under this law it’s the AP and not the cheater who pays, but still, it’s something. I bet the children will be VERY thankful in 20 years that at least some resources still ended up with their sane parent, who will likely use it to continue to support them and may invest it for their future, too.
As some have noted above, it really irks me that adultery is still illegal in most states, but it’s not enforced. That’s what really galls me about these laws. I had plenty of proof that my cheater was in love with someone else, was continuing to pursue her, was out until all hours, was not where he said he would be, etc. My lawyer (wisely) advised me against pursuing that, as she said she had never seen a case be successful in getting that verdict. She particularly noted that she had seen a case where there was video evidence of the cheater coming out of the AP’s apartment at 5am or something, and the judge still ignored it because he “didn’t know if they were just in there playing board games or whatever.” So even if you have pretty dang unrefutable evidence, at least in my state nobody really touches the issue. Ugh.
I think it’s on the books in NYS but it’s rarely used as judges throw the cases out immediately. However, I thought his employer covered up the incident and actually participated in business practices that worked against spouses and families. I just didnt have the kind of money needed to expose schmoopie or their mutual employer. But if it exposed that bad boys club, it would have been worth the public humiliation.
My cheater’s boss knew what was going on and did nothing, and it’s against policy. She even knew they were out cheating while they were supposed to be on the clock. His employer is the federal gov’t. I certainly wish I had the resources to sue them.
Yes! I was clapping my hands in joy for him! He got a measure of compensation, that will make him feel a little better. Nothing can soothe the betrayal, and downright back stabbing, but at least he made his point!
I thought about suing the OW, since the dirty deeds were done in Utah, and they do have this law, but it felt too much like I wanted revenge. I wanted to let go of harsh feelings in my life. What they did to me was harsh! So, nah. I just divorced him as my message.
I wish this law was in every state, every country around the world. The amount of financial fraud and harm Schmoopies and FW spouses cause is immeasurable, but these financial settlements even the score, if you ask me.
Man, if my state had these laws on the books I would have good spent money to sue the Hamburger Whore.
Not that she had any assets, a crappy 14 year-old car and living on public assistance for almost her entire adult life (she’s almost 50 and has never worked).
But if I could have sued her I would have, just to get back at her for the vicious things she did to ME when cheater dumped her ass. Near constant harassment, calling from spoofed numbers, driving by the house and later driving by my new place. Mysterious damage to my car. Almost two years later, she has a creepy asshole text ME to threaten me and my family. I couldn’t help but notice that I was the target, cheater was apparently golden and she never went after him.
So yeah, I am just the kind of person that wants a little payback for all the shit she dealt to me. Am I petty and vindictive? Well , maybe. So what? I feel like I earned that right after the shit she pulled. I got plenty of shit from cheater too, and he paid. Only fair for her to pay as well. Even if she has nothing and I could never collect, it would be hanging over her for years.
I am in a community property state doesn’t matter what happens the law is going to divide everything as close to 50/50 as possible and slap some standard custody orders. Everyone I know that has been divorced same thing happens.
The legal system is a money racket that protects no one. I asked my lawyer about taking ex back to court over contempt. (Verbal abuse, stalking, slander) He cheated! She said it would cost close to $5000 and he would get a fine smaller than what I spent to attempt to get it stopped.
I think if this guy had time and resources to waste then sue. Just remember you may never see a dime and you may destroy yourself financially trying to make them pay. Let them destroy themselves!
Continue “Gaining a Life”!
I live in North Carolina, and I actually went after the AP under this law, and another one that goes with it.
After a year of legal wrangling and no court date set, it became obvious that
– The AP didn’t have squat for assets, and couldn’t pay out whatever I got
– The legal bills on my end were getting into the thousands of dollars
– I was going to have to sit through hours of questions about whether my awful ex was “happy,” how often we had s*x, etc.
I just gave up. I had it closed with the option to reopen it later, but I haven’t bothered.
TTW…this is exactly what my lawyer warned me about. These AoA cases that make national news are the exception, not the norm. The legal reality of these lawsuits are more money for lawyers and more pain for the plantiff. Hugs to you. I hope you are finding peace now.
It’s a waste of finance pursuing a lawsuit against an AP. These are considered frivolous lawsuits. I did require a no contact between them to be added into the settlement however found out many years later they were still seeing each other. Just easy money for lawyers to make. Doesn’t really do much.
What are CN’s thoughts on this?!
Well, how about; how I wish I was living in NC when I found out that sparkledick was a cold, calculating cheater using our family resources to maintain his affair(s), all the while he was having me help support his incompetent family, make his doctors’ appointments, etc., etc., etc.
In my country the law changed in 2010 from “cheating is fraud” to “nobody can be obliged to love anybody”. BUT at least I didn’t have to split his debts with him since they were “not made in the interest of the family”(the law) and I could sue him for moral damage, which I did, my pitbull lawyer’s move to get his ass moving to make an agreement about splitting our assets.
I think cheating is fraud so GOOD FOR NORTH CAROLINA CHUMPS!
Like I read here at CN, sparkles was tampering with my GPS for navigating life and I could not make informed choices. There is no other definition for that than FRAUD.
PS: I bet today’s post will have more posts than last Fun Friday, which was more than 500!
PPS: And this Ashley Russell creature is indeed a moron. Her website and cherry picking statistics make me sick. I’m for Hannah Arendt and banality of evil.
If the OM had hit my car and the damage cost $10,000 then I could have sued him for damages and won no problem. BUT have an affair with my Ex and the divorce costing me over $100,000 and years of pain for me and my kids ??
In most states, the law says: “Too bad” and “Get over it”.
Those laws should be in every state and Schmoopies might think twice about running around with a married man or woman.
Yes. In my case living in Connecticut, he cheats…I pay!
After reading all the comments from people in North Carolina it’s obvious that only those with the money to keep this kind of lawsuit going are able to use it and benefit from it, and since women still make less than men in this country that means it’s still patriarchal. Perhaps that’s what people mean when they say that. Having the means also prevents anyone without significant money and time, male or female, from being able to use this, so it’s also classist.
We really do need to teach our children to always have a prenuptial agreement that says if the spouse cheats they lose everything.
Yes, I will definitely suggest to both my kids (1 male and 1 female) that they should definitely get a pre-nup before marriage which includes an infidelity clause. I know it doesn’t sound romantic and of course no one goes into a marriage thinking that their spouse will cheat on them. But numbers don’t lie. Over 50% of marriages end in divorce. I’m unsure how many end because of infidelity, but I’m sure there are a lot! And whenever I read here on CL that someone has to pay support to someone who cheated on them; ugh, that gets me so mad!
I just wish there was still a financial penalty in the divorce process, if the divorce occurred because of cheating by one spouse.
Chumps are so often blindsided by this, and often contributed more $ to the relationship or made significant financial/career sacrifices, believing they were in a committed, reciprocal relationship where both were contributing in their own ways to the well-being and the future financial security of the couple/family.
There should be financial compensation for the Chump, so they are at least less financially damaged by the dishonesty of their partner.
This, so much this! Ten years out and it’s not x’s infidelity that bothers me so much as the fact that everything I had worked so hard for had been well and truly fucked up. My intact family. My marriage. My family’s financial and mental and physical well being. Just the financial injustices alone had lasting consequences, his “affair” and entitlement cost me my dream home, any job requiring a financial background check, my standard of living, my community, and forever changed the way I thought of my past and of the man I thought I knew. Family was my biggest priority and I rocked it for many years. I gave up great opportunities to support x and his career. Meanwhile x was sabatoging our marriage every step of the way. Walking out left us all scrambling. His psychotic behavior, coupled with a drawn out divorce, was so stressful it affected my health. My heart goes out to those infected with STDs.
On top of all that is how this whole crappy unfortunate experience has traumatized our kids. Life was good, until it wasn’t. ???? Two were in college and the youngest was headed there when x bounced, robbing our youngest of her hard earned college fund, and refusing to support our other children…. Like, who the fuck does that? And, yes, our family court was a big joke, the longer the case went on the more money every one else made. Judges and lawyers all know that most marriages blow up because of third parties, that money and assets are dissipated by cheaters and fuckwits, that they have very little control over idiots, little power to enforce orders, fuck FAIR, and best case scenario is that a MSA is hammered out, no thanks to my lawyer, and finally a divorce is granted. If nothing else we should all be advocating for a better system to divorce. Trusting a cheater to tell the truth about finances is like asking a fox to watch the hen house. As for those cheaters, they ended up with each other. Well and truly what they deserved. ????
I saw the article and was disappointed in the way it was presented with an underlying “this is antiquated” attitude. I, too, was irritated by the ridiculous BS about the trauma of the children seeing the legal documents. I, too, very much like the Washington Post. In California, you are not allowed to mention the affair as part of a divorce proceedings unless it pertains specifically to community money spent on the affair partner. Here, you have to wear a “scarlet C” (for conservative) if you suggest that adultery is as bad as not recycling or throwing a fruit peel in the landfill container. And to clarify, I recycle and compost with glee. But I also think cheating is worse.
First, marriage is a contract. A general summary of laws surround contracts reads: “Under the law, once a contract is breached, the guilty party must remedy the breach. The primary solutions are damages, specific performance, or contract cancellation and restitution. Compensatory damages. The goal with compensatory damages is to make the non-breaching party whole as if the breach never happened.” Enough said. Cheating and leaving with the affair partner is a big time breach of contract. Cheater pays chump. And yet, in a no-fault state, the cheater can take the chump’s money if the chump earns more. That is F*#ked Up.
Second, for those who gave up their own careers, or retired early or sacrificed their own trajectory to move with/support the family, if these items were just dollars put into a business with a partner and the partner was working with your competitors, making decisions without consulting you, and then took off with your investment (in this analogy that’s the career you sacrificed and can’t get back because now you’re 50-something), well that would be a lawsuit (and possibly jail time). And no one would call it antiquated. Or say, “Oh well, it happens. Sometimes these partnerships just don’t work out and you can go start another business from the ground up, can’t you? Oh that was your life savings that you lost? Oh well. Don’t talk about it publicly please. Your erstwhile business partner’s kids might be traumatized.”
Oh Come On, Washington Post. Being able to sue your ex or his/her affair partner for ruining your life isn’t antiquated. It isn’t akin to segregation laws or anti-abortion laws. It isn’t taking us back to a time when women were property. This was what the cheater deserved. It’s what the woman who screwed my ex-husband deserves. It’s what my ex-husband deserves to have happen to him at the hands of her ex. It’s fair. What’s not fair is the way we chumps are treated in the other 41 states.
I too thought marriage was a contract. But it turns out all that contract was good for is in providing the thinnest margin of split assets.
I thought by getting married I was protected. But I never looked to see “is cheating grounds for divorce” when I was getting my marriage license. Hell, when he WAS ACTIVELY cheating I couldn’t even fathom the possibility of him cheating.
Prenups should just be standard built in to the marriage license. Automatic rider.
The patriarchy is in full force with the REMOVAL of what used to be standard fault options available for divorce filing.
It’s funny how we get so worked up over infidelity. The same vows in marriage are taken in other countries, but it’s dealt with differently. I once heard a Mexican lady state that all the men have mistresses, and you just hope your husband choses a decent mistress. In some cultures, it’s almost expected. Very sad but a reality.
Very sad, indeed. Does anyone take into consideration that long-lasting or forever diseases and even death could result? NO!
1000% in support of this! I need to move to NC!
Lucky him. I live in California- my wife lied, cheated, left me and her twin boys, as well as her elderly mother who needs help and ran off with an asshole she met online. She lives with him, his brother and his brothers girlfriend. The stbx is 47; he’s 53. His “job” is working construction with his brother. He lives in the house he grew up in.
Under California law, the stbx gets half of my retirement pension, despite what she put us through.
That sucks. I so sorry. So unfair. Who makes these laws?
The state I live in makes Adultery itself a crime punishable with up to 3 years in prison and/or $10,000 in fines applicable to both partners if either one is married. I have never heard of a case where this was actually enforced, however and I doubt I ever will. I didn’t bother trying to leverage it in any way as my ex was actually reasonable in the divorce settlement.
I live in NC, and when my wife left me and our 13-year-old daughter 5 years ago for her twu wuv, this law was very helpful. Not that the AP had any money, mind you (my ex lured him in with the promise of half of my long professional life’s work). Nobody gets financially ruined by this law. My lawyer told me that the award is normally 1/3rd of the 50:50 property division. In other words, if marital assets are say $600,000, and the cheater wants to run away with $300,000, the chump can normally expect $100,000 back in an alienation of affection lawsuit. The end result is a 2:1 split in favor of the chump rather than a 50:50 split. As mentioned, proof of infidelity (tape of them going into a hotel together, etc) is necessary, the same proof necessary to avoid alimony. If the AP has the assets, this is done as part of the property division, with trial rarely being necessary. If he’s worthless (as in my case), the alienation of affection lawsuit threat is still leverage for a good quick settlement – I basically got a 2:1 split. Cheaters want to go away quickly without publicity, alienation of affection lawsuits don’t help the AP’s career or image, and there is also the threat of the other chump involved suing the cheater trying to run away with the money.
North Carolina (I was told) was one of only 4 states that actually enforce/honor alienation of affection lawsuits. This is often cited as proof of how Neanderthal NC is, but is actually the only thing a breadwinning chump can use against the 50:50 “no-fault” nonsense. If you’re a North Carolina chump getting taken to the cleaners by a cheating spouse, please don’t overlook these lawsuits!
I live in NC as well and have a tons of proof of the cheating. My lawyer keeps saying we need to wait until we are done with my husband to sue her but I want to use this as leverage!! What kind of leverage do I have later?
He says it’s because the amount of damages for the Heart balm lawsuit will depend on what I get in the equitable distribution suit. But being NC a no-fault state I am not even allowed to bring adultery as a part of the division.
I wanted to use this as leverage!
I am going to call my lawyer and tell him to go ahead and file against her as well. I already spent so much money on this that is just ridicoulos.
You are right that because NC is a no-fault state, adultery does not affect the “equitable distribution”. Alienation of affection lawsuits can be filed up to 3 years after the divorce I was told. I was the sole breadwinner whose cheating spouse did not help me attain/maintain my career in any way. For me, the equitable distribution was the big enchilada, so using the threat of an AOA lawsuit to help in the division of assets made sense. (While I “did well”, trust me, she still got plenty.
Your lawyer may be right to concentrate on getting the 50% due to you (if your husband was the primary breadwinner), and keep your options open for an AOA lawsuit later (don’t sign away the right to do this in your separation agreement). He may also be right that what you can sue for depends on what the 50:50 split was worth (what I was told). Now if you know the AP is wealthy that might be different – using the threat of an AOA lawsuit sooner rather than later may be used as leverage in the equitable distribution.
The real problem is the “no-fault” bullshit. Lawyers who try to find fault where none exists in other areas of law have no problem calling the whole field of family law “no-fault”. (My lawyer cynically told me it was because there were plenty of billable hours in equitable distribution!) It’s not that AOA or “criminal conversation” are such great laws, they’re just the only leverage chumps have in no-fault states. They may help a comfortable breadwinner like myself more than a dependent mother with small kids. Ending the “no-fault” nonsense would help everyone.
One word – consequences.
As already mentioned, these laws do give chumps some serious leverage. Also, it’s not so much about collecting on the judgment, as consequences to both the cheating ex and AP. That judgment will haunt the AP for a long time. Again, consequences and personally I think they deserve them.
As for those screaming against these laws…..take note and take names. Narcs, cheaters, AP’s would scream against that. Consequences aren’t in their playbook and they will gaslight, scream loud, name call….well….we all know the script all too well….. Anything to avoid consequences or even the threat of.
I will add that if we did have alienation of affection laws on the books in my state, I would not have tried to use them against Schmoopie. First of all, it likely would have made my divorce a lot messier than it was. Also, she has five kids to look after and they are innocent. Her ex was also a cheating asshole and isn’t much help as far as they are concerned. I don’t care about her wellbeing, but I don’t want to punish her kids for whom all of this was as traumatic as it was for my kids. I am also glad her ex didn’t have the option of coming after mine with something like this because that would have made it harder for ex to pay child support for our kids. If Schmoopie had been rich, childless and unmarried at the time I might feel differently.
I am thrilled to tears the piece of shit affair partner got some real consequences besides “winning” the booby prize of a lying, cheating, piss poor excuse for a spouse. As you sow, so shall you reap.
Yes, DuddersGetsChumped! I checked out Ashley Nicole Russell Esq.’s website as well.
My, my – quite the lavish set-up.
I happened to have been subjected to collaborative divorce as well. Stonehenge’s, (my ex), choice – of course. Silly, silly me to dare to imagine that I had a say in this matter.
Let me tell you ladies and gents – these type divorces are extremely lucrative for ALL of the professionals involved. There is your lawyer, Cheaterpants’ lawyer, a financial professional and a mental health professional. All of these people are present at each of the collaborative meetings – which typically last between 3 and 4 hours each. ALL of these professionals are charging their usual and customary exorbitant hourly charges. Of course, Stonehenge, being an attorney himself, just HAD to have the named partner for his attorney – at $500/hour. Yes – please do the math and feel the shock.
The female mental health professional had unfortunately been completely charmed by my narcissistic ex, and ended up being more than useless – she became a hindrance to the entire process. I recall thinking, on several occasions, “Will you please just shut up!”
The male financial advisor was honestly the only worthwhile individual there -because of him I ended up okay. Stonehenge was in twu luv la-la land practically the entire time. He was clearly not paying attention because he did not understand the amount of monthly alimony that he was legally obligated to pay for the rest of his life. Ours was a 35-year marriage – yes indeed, another one of those. He was under the impression that he simply had to “plus up” half of the military pension to reach the agreed-upon monthly alimony amount. Ummm, no, I am afraid not Stonehenge, the alimony is in ADDITION to half of the military pension – pay the f*** attention!
Ultimately that “affordable” collaborative divorce, five collaborative sessions, ended up costing just north of $45,000. I know of another woman whose collaborative divorce was well into the $100,000s after 8 months of these insane meetings. so don’t believe all of that advertising hype about how these types of divorces are SO much more affordable. Again, ummm, just no.
And ladies, and maybe a few gents here – please be very, very careful if you are going through a divorce with an ex-military individual. Get an attorney involved that is WELL versed in all of the complicated ins and outs of such a divorce. Luckily in my case, the financial professional consulted with an attorney acquaintance of his who specialized in military divorces. Bless the both of them. You want to make certain that the military pension is split in half correctly. You want to make certain that you’re hard earned Survivor Benefit Plan does NOT end up going to Schmoopie once Cheaterpants kicks the bucket. Believe me, it has happened.
I’m a 20/20/20 spouse, and I can’t believe how conflicting the info is. The military enables a special brand of cheater…..think frat boys on steroids. And how difficult they make getting your benefits is an extra twist of the knife. I’m sure many ex spouses give up and do without.
How I wish I was a 20/20/20 spouse. I fell short by three months. When we got married back in 1979 the rule was 20/20/15. It was changed in 1984, during the Reagan administration. Forever may shame be upon those members of Congress who voted for this to pass into law. In my estimation, all of us married before the change of law in 1984 should have been grandfathered under the old law. Honestly, how difficult would that have been? Apparently too difficult for those who were making this monumental decision.
When Stonehenge (my ex) found out about me losing all of my military benefits during one of the collaborative meetings – he looked very smug, shrugged his shoulders and said, “You never liked it anyway.” He’s lucky that I didn’t lunge across the table at that point and knock the smugness right out of him! Never-ending AH moves on his part – he’s truly a bottomless pit in that department!
For those of you out there in my situation – falling just short of the 20/20/20 rule – those shameful men in congress at that time did throw some of us a bone. It’s called the Continuing Health Care Benefit Program, CHCBP. Google it. There are five different criteria you must meet in order for it to last beyond the 36-month limit. You MUST sign up for this before your current TriCare eligibility ends.
Most likely no one from the DOD is going to send you a kindly email notifying you of your eligibility for this program. No one in the medical community has ever heard of this insurance. It’s basically TriCare with a Cobra premium. I’ve basically paid about $20,000 in premiums to date – that’s about 3 and a half years worth of premiums.
The insurance lasts for three-month segments and must be renewed after those three months are up, and on and on. Lord help you if you forget and are late with your payment – you are out, period. And once you’re out, there is no getting back in. My premium now is 1,453.00 per quarter – and of course, it goes up every year. I’ll be paying those premiums for another four years – until I qualify for Medicare. Even with the premiums, it is by far the best insurance that I qualify for at this stage in my life.
Good. Grumpy cat good.
Alienation of Affection was struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada, but a closely related suit, Criminal Conversation, is still on the books and was awarded damages in one case. Sadly, that failed on appeal because the judge decided there was not enough evidence the affair happened. Criminal Conversation requires a more rigid standard of proof. I certainly have enough proof to go after my cheater’s howorker, should she ever become a nuisance to me in the future. She’s so stupid that I have a written admission from her. She wisely has stayed as far away from both me and my ex-hole as possible, so I don’t expect there will ever be a need to use the threat to sue her to get her to behave appropriately. At times I do wish she could be punished, though. She repeatedly urged him to leave his chronically ill wife and disabled daughter, not because she wanted him for herself, but just to do evil. She is a monster who has deliberately ensured her underage daughters had to meet and see her with multiple APs, and has even brought them with her on dates. She belongs in prison for child abuse, IMO. Those girls must be traumatized for life. But there are no laws protecting either children or spouses from emotional abuse. ????
Congrats to the chump in North Carolina! ????
I’ve come to appreciate the no fault status of my state.
At first, I was ready to “..get whats due”. But this side of it, I appreciate that no-fault eliminates any potential obstacle that would slow the journey to “meh” – just one less burden or baggage, etc….
But if I could have put the screws to the AP, I would have. He should have paid for some of the divorce process.
If I could sue and won that settlement I would ask the judge to make them pay on a monthly basis, lets just say $1,000.00 a month until paid and would be so generous as to not charge interest. So every month not only would I still get his pension payments, but a check from her for the payment! LOL!
Happy for the chumps that could use this to their advantage. Here it’s ‘no fault’ 50:50 Mom track roles/child raising costs dearly when you find there is no team.
But it is what it is. Cheater free peace is good.
Hey Chump Nation. I just found a line on his Financial Affidavit that reads “Life Insurance to secure Child Support Payments” Our children are adults. What is this referring too? He won’t be paying me Child Support for adult children. Is this proof of an adultery baby? WTF? I don’t want to call my lawyer because every contact costs me money. How do I figure this out? There are no children listed on the line designated for “Children not of this marriage”. There are no Child Support Payments listed on the Affidavit. $173.00 monthly for Life Insurance to Insure Child Support Payments. Any suggestions?
Maybe the line in the financial statement is only reflecting a benefit that his job gives him. That is payment for any minor children support in Case he dies. It would not be referred to your specific case.
I believe that alienation of affection laws need to be reinstated across all 50 states in the US. Even though a Chump may not be able to recover monetary damages, I like these laws because they allow Chumps to have a form of recourse when their cheating spouse leaves for someone else. I believe that both the cheating spouse and the other person (aka the lover) share responsibility.
Or think of it this way….
Imagine two different people you trusted conspired against you to steal all of your expensive jewelry that was worth thousands of dollars. Imagine they both plotted together until this crime became a reality. Maybe one person physically stole your jewelry while the other person provided a false alibi and helped clean the crime scene. Then they sold the jewelry and bought themselves their own bling. In a court of law, these two people would be co-conspirators to a premeditated crime. The victim of this crime would have the opportunity to put these two thieves on trial and perhaps recover monetary damages that would reflect the cash value of the stolen jewelry. (That is, if the original jewelry could not be recovered due to the thieves selling it or other scenarios). I believe that any rational citizen would side with the victim in such a case and find it perfectly reasonable for a victim of a crime to have their missing property (or the cash value of said property) returned to them.
Some might say that jewelry is just an object and they are right; jewelry is an object. Some might say that we cannot compare jewelry robberies to infidelity. I would agree with that statement.
Because infidelity and the breaking up of families is one hundred times more serious than stealing jewelry.
When there is infidelity, a giant ball of pain, shock, and despair is unleashed on people who are innocent. Victims of infidelity are thinking and feeling human beings; not mere objects. Because victims of infidelity are human beings, they must figure out how to put their lives back together after someone obliterates everything they knew and loved. A chump must sort through the metaphorical ashes of what is left of their lives and a Chump must attempt to get through the tremendous trauma they are suffering as well as attend to the needs of any children who are involved.
I believe alienation of affection laws cause people to think twice. When it is so easy to break up families and so easy NOT to take commitment seriously, any one of us could be Chumped. I see so many people treat other people as if they were merely disposable razors. Once they become dull, they are thrown away.
Since most states have abolished alienation of affection laws, there are other means of protection, but these means require time and money. Some spouses opt for both pre and post-nuptial agreements. But, there are stronger ways to protect one’s assets from inter-lopers and these come in the form of family trusts. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. But, I do agree alienation of affection laws are valuable (and so are family trusts if you live in a no fault divorce state).
I tell people that if they believe they REALLY found their soul mate, then tell their entire family they have found their soul mate before the relationship is sexually consummated. You would not believe the number of people who back peddle when what they are doing is now “in the light” for everyone to see and judge. Whatever (weird and fucked up) thrill people get from committing infidelity will often die down when it is brought into the open for all to see.
One final thing: I have read many alienation of affection cases. There are many times that a female chump is able to win a substantial amount of money in court. This is a good thing in case Schmoopie and Luvy Wuvy decide that paying child support is so passe.
I mean, kids can steal their food from 7-11 if they are hungry. (Sarcasm). And there is always fishing clothing out of trash bins. (Sarcasm!!!)
So any financial settlement that a Chump can get from an interloper is a good thing. A chump can put that money away for a rainy day when Schmoopie and Luvy Wuvy decide that paying child support is an archaic tradition from the past.
And a Chump and those starving kids certainly cannot be the boss of Schmoopie and Luvy Wuvy! Schmoopie and Luvy Wuvy are free to go wherever the wind takes them while the Chump is left to “adult” on their own. If the Chump is attempting to feed a starving family, well then maybe the Chump should work harder. (Double Sarcasm!) Because paying child support and alimony to a Chump is just “so lame just like 1986 and gag me with a spoon” and we are so evolved! (Triple sarcasm!)
Yay for alienation of affection laws!
(And in all seriousness, I love the 80’s).
PS- Here is a good one. Cheating is illegal in 16 states. I have copied and pasted an article below from Woman’s Day Not much money involved, but there might be certain satisfaction in giving a cheater a taste of life in the slammer. And the cheater will have a terrible experience if he accidentally drops the soap:
Getting it on with someone other than your spouse is a Class 3 misdemeanor here, punishable by up to 30 days behind bars. And not only will the spouse be penalized but also the other person (now that’s justice!).
In a place where bathing suits are the dress code, how can eyes not wander? Still, he should keep his hands to himself: Floridian adulterers can spend up to two months in jail and be charged up to $500.
“Intercourse or sodomy” with someone other than your spouse is a Class C misdemeanor here, punishable by up to a month in jail and a fine of up to $500. Remember, Kansas couples: There’s no place like home.
Frank Sinatra probably wouldn’t consider Chicago “His Kind of Town” if he knew about this state law. The consequences for adultery in Illinois is up to a year in jail for both cheaters.
Straying in the Bay State is a wicked bad idea. It’s considered a felony with a fine of up to $500 and a jail sentence of up to three years.
If Oklahoma native Dr. Phil’s anti-cheating advice doesn’t persuade him, perhaps this will: Not only do adulterers face fines of up to $500 but also incarceration for up to five years.
The penalty for cheating in Idaho is no small potatoes: Adultery is a felony that comes with a fine of up to $1,000 and as much as three years in jail.
It’s a felony and a Class H offense to two-time your spouse here, but the price for your crime is “jail or other intermediate sanction,” according to the State of Michigan Sentencing Guideline Manual. With an unclear consequence like that, it’s not worth it to succumb to temptation.
Cheating cheeseheads better be rich. Those caught may need to cough up a whopping $10,000. Oh, and the possible three years behind bars doesn’t sound fun, either.
The law for adultery in Minnesota is just as cold as the state itself. If you’re caught cheating, you can be fined up to $3,000 and imprisoned for as long as a year.
We’re not sure how the state’s famous polygamists are free men, but infidelity can land you a sentence of up to 6 monthswith a fine of up to $1,000.
12. New York
Sleeping around in the city that never sleeps, or anywhere else in the Empire State, for that matter, could result in as long as 3 months of jail time.
Vow-breakers better pray the system treats its inmates to Southern hospitality. The Mississippi statutes say that cheaters “shall be fined in any sum not more than $500 each, and imprisoned in the county jail not more than six months.”
Be a peach to your partner to avoida fine of up to $1,000 or a jail sentence of up to a year.
15. South Carolina
Cheating here can send you to the slammer for anywhere from six months to a year, or could get you a fine between $500 to $1,000.
16. North Carolina
This southern state isn’t as hard on their cheaters. The unfaithful spend no more than 30 days in lockup.
And then there’s Maryland:
Where you could go on a movie date or cheat on your spouse for the same price. The fine for betraying your beloved is only $10 here.
I would have liked to have been able to do this, if for no other reason than to get the AP’s name on an official record as a homewrecker. She was all about the secrecy and keeping the affair undercover and shat her pants when I threatened to out her on social media, so it would have been great to have her name as a result if anyone ever needed to research my divorce.
Marriage is a legal contract. Every other legal contract, i.e. Business partnership, you could sue if one of the partners was spending money not on the business and for defraudment. I have never understood why the courts refuse to treat marriage the same way.
I got divorced from my 25 yr marriage in NC. I had two options in ‘dealing’ with his AP (or paramour, as she was referred to in all the paperwork) and one of them was ‘alienation of affection.’ My lawyer pointed out that alienation of affection (intent on HER part) would be hard because it wasn’t the first time he’d cheated on me. So, in theory, she couldn’t have coerced him into doing something he’d already done. His lawyer claimed she was ‘judgement proof’ but my lawyer still pushed for ‘criminal conversation.’ She didn’t have money (she’d left her husband of 25 yrs and since she was the cheater, well…) but they didn’t want that judgement hanging around on her credit checks so in exchange for waiving my right to sue – I got the house 🙂
But oh LORD would I have loved to take every damn dime she had if she’d had any. YES YES YES
The sleaziest, most textbook narcissist I’ve ever met sued his wife’s AP under this law (before proceeding to sleep with his grad student) and won. Same guy who would blather on about his (new) alcoholic wife and how little sexual intimacy he enjoyed any more before asking whether you masturbate. While you’re at his house to ask for a grad school recommendation. And then assert when you threatened to report him that you were just “two adults sharing more about their lives than ever before” and that your behavior has cast a black cloud over his life and made him look at his current students with “distrust…even distaste.” Ask me how I know.
So yeah…the fact that he would sue someone under this law was about as cringeworthily ironic as everything else about his sorry ass.
Just wondering if the states that abolished this had politicians that would have been fried had the laws stayed on the books.
Also wondering if a “Breach of Contract” lawsuit would bear any weight..