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Is He Gay? A Lost Soul? A Sex Addict?

Dear Chump Lady,

I’m writing to you as I was forwarded your website by my therapist.

I found myself in a shrink’s chair when I caught my husband out meeting a gay man he had found on Adam4Adam.

My husband and I have been together for seven years, married for 2.3, separated since Valentines Day.
November 26 was Dday for me. I caught him coming out of a random house and long story short he said he hooked up with a man he found on Adam4Adam and they jerked off together. That night he swore it was his first and only time meeting someone. His only explanation was that he “had needs to be met and since we didn’t have sex in two weeks, he needed to do this.” He went on to say “it wasn’t cheating because it was with another man.” At that moment all I could muster up was “you mean to tell me you just cheated on me with man?!?!” I felt the blood drain from my face and left the house.

As weeks went by he confessed that he lied to me about his past sexual relationships of having four sexual partners before me and that him and his ex would invite a third into the bedroom. Women AND men. After they split he would answer adds on Craigslist and back-page where he was a third because he missed it. He did this until he met me. He went on to explain that after awhile of dating me our relationship grew stronger. However, if we had an argument, he would block me from contacting him so we wouldn’t talk for a few days. This is when he searched out men to jerk off with.

He swore he wasn’t gay but has a “sex addiction” problem and only did it when we would argue.

I was desperate to save my marriage, so off we went to group therapy for sex addicts and counseling. Through this process he confessed again that he had lied to friends and family about any argument we ever had and he would always make me out to be the bad guy. He said he didn’t want his family to think he was a jerk, so he would tell lies about what we really argued about. He also told me that he was sexually assaulted as a child and never told a single soul. Until now. He said jerking off with men and hiding it was something he had been doing since he was young. He never addressed it in therapy and has been holding this secret for most of his life. Being a nurse I did my best to look at it from a mental disorder, and if he was willing to go to therapy I was in it for the long hall.

Anyway, I tired to fight the good fight and save my marriage. I gave more sex, more attention, more of everything as long as he was accountable for his whereabouts and showed me his cell phone. He was willing to be held accountable for all his actions and wanted to save our marriage. I believed him up until I found messages on his phone he had not shared with me. When I found them I was done. I left and took everything I could grab.
I’m not going to lie, the past few weeks has been beyond difficult. However, I met with an attorney, tried to call him to discuss business like the car, bills, etc and guess what? I’m blocked. ME?!?! I don’t get it. I was willing to walk through fire with him to figure his shit out and now I’m the one who is blocked?!? Why am I so hurt over this? Why can’t he just man up and face his mess?

I’m so confused. Was I married to a gay man? A straight man? An abused lost soul who desperately needs my help? A sex addict?

I’m devastated to say the least but I’m not sure what’s devastating the most. The fact that he lied again. That he is a serial liar. A serial cheater. That my marriage is over. That I can’t help him. The fact he has not once reached out to me to say he is sorry. That my life as I know it is O. V. E. R. Or the that I’m blocked.

I know he is so screwed up. I gave him a second chance, but will never give him a third. Yet, I can’t help that I still do love him, cry all day every day and obsess over all of it. Will that ever go away? Will I ever get the “I can’t live without you speech?”


Dear Mg,

You don’t want the “I can’t live without you” speech. Trust me, as someone who got the “I can’t live without you” speech, it’s highly overrated. Like that trendy restaurant that gives you botulism. Be glad he’s not dishing out more mindfuckery.

Was I married to a gay man? A straight man? An abused lost soul who desperately needs my help? A sex addict?

You were married to a man who was abusing you. It doesn’t matter what flavor of fucked up he is. Your response was entirely sane and appropriate — you protected yourself and you left.

But, but IT MATTERS!

No, it really doesn’t. I know it FEELS like it matters, but it doesn’t. If you got hit by a train, does it matter if it’s a southbound diesel or a northbound steam engine? You go splat on the tracks either way.

Step away from the skein. There’s only one issue to untangle with him — whether his treatment is acceptable to you, or if it isn’t. But, but, but! extenuating circumstances! still takes us back to that knot. IS THIS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? No? Cut the knot.

He weaponized your decency, Mg. You went in there with a big loving heart. You would’ve held his hand through the gay/sex addict/abused child thing. You would’ve made your needs smaller and smaller for his. As in, “Sure, I’ll have more sex with you after you risked my life with your bareback sex ads! What’s my reproductive health worth? or my sanity? What really matters here, Skip, are YOUR orgasms.”

It wasn’t sustainable, Mg!

You only stepped off this doomed carnival ride when he couldn’t fake his great investment in not being an asshole for what? entire weeks?

I know you loved and invested in that asshole and I know it hurts. Like a boulder fell on your chest and you’re pinned to the ground and can’t ever lift it off. I know you’re mad at me for calling him an asshole. That a part of you inside defends him (but, but ISSUES!), defends yourself for loving him — but Mg, time for radical acceptance — he was an ASSHOLE. A gay/straight/abused child/addict ASSHOLE.

However, if we had an argument, he would block me from contacting him so we wouldn’t talk for a few days. This is when he searched out men to jerk off with.

So, how are you ever supposed to feel safe with that?

If you so much as disagree with him about anything — the color of the drapes, the movie ending, how you like your coffee — he will LEAVE and punish you with silence. Put aside the man-on-man sex for a moment — just the fact this person responds to conflict with ABANDONMENT and the SILENT TREATMENT is a non-starter.

Really, it’s just all pretext to fuck around on you.

he confessed again that he had lied to friends and family about any argument we ever had and he would always make me out to be the bad guy.

He said he didn’t want his family to think he was a jerk

He didn’t want his family to think he was gay. Whatever, I’m sure you made him this way. If the blameshift fits…

He also told me that he was sexually assaulted as a child and never told a single soul. Until now. He said jerking off with men and hiding it was something he had been doing since he was young. He never addressed it in therapy and has been holding this secret for most of his life.

It’s tragic that he was abused as a child. That sadly common experience (FBI stats are 1 out of 3 girls and 1 out of 10 boys, and it’s all underreported) does not give him carte blanche to abuse YOU. If he’d told you this story and the ending was “and that’s why I molest children” you would not give him a pass. The world is full of formerly abused children who do not go on to be abusers. It’s also full of people who were NOT abused, who feel totally entitled to abuse others. Oh, and monsters who will claim victimhood as DARVO sad sausages. (Undermining the credibility of scores of actual abuse victims.) Skein untangling doesn’t get us very far.

He feels entitled to secrecy. He feels entitled to risk your health. He feels entitled to your investment in him.

However, I met with an attorney, tried to call him to discuss business like the car, bills, etc and guess what? I’m blocked. ME?!?! I don’t get it. I was willing to walk through fire with him to figure his shit out and now I’m the one who is blocked?!? Why am I so hurt over this? Why can’t he just man up and face his mess?

If he were that man, then he wouldn’t be the man who’s been fronting a lie for the last 7 years.

Why are you hurt? Because he’s punishing you for holding him accountable. He’s hurting you the way he’s hurt you every other time you had an argument and he left and went silent. It WORKS for him. You hurt because you care and he’s rejected you. So stop caring and take that power away from him.

You need no contact now. So let your attorney deal with the logistics.

It was NEVER your job to “walk through fire” to “figure his shit” out. That’s HIS job. If you want to be compassionate, consider you’re leaving to give him the time and space to do that work. (I doubt he’ll do it, but that’s my cynicism from reading hundreds of thousands of these stories.) He’ll never be straight husband material, but perhaps with years of therapy, he could be decent human being material. Not your problem, you can’t help him with this, but say a little prayer for him if it helps YOU detach.

But detach you must.

Check out the Straight Spouse Network too.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • “Why can’t he just man up and face his mess?”

    He was never that man and the likelihood he will EVER be that man is statistically vanishingly small. So small you can’t see it without an electron microscope.

    Don’t bother.

    Let the attorney do the job for which s/he was hired to do. You’re a nurse – go get tested for STDs, do your financial homework and walk away with your head held high. Despite ALL of his character deficiencies and nasty behavior towards you that you knew about – YOU didn’t cheat! Ever. Not once. Even when YOUR needs were “not met”.

    Feel free to tell everyone who asks that you are divorcing him because he emotionally abused you, cheated on you and pretty much lied about everything in order to keep you around and ignorant of his character.

    He’s been unmasked and you don’t want him anymore.

    Good luck to you. Eventually, the hurt will die down.

    Hey – props to the therapist for sending you to ChumpLady! It’s not often that someone can say that about a therapist. So many of them are RIC quacks.

    • Oh, and by the way, he wasn’t just jerking off with other men, and that time when you caught him wasn’t his first time.

      There’s another poster here who was served the same logic, that if it’s with men it’s not cheating.

      • “There’s another poster here who was served the same logic, that if it’s with men it’s not cheating.”

        Boggles the mind, doesn’t it?

        I think my point still stands though. Doesn’t matter who he’s doing “whatever” he’s doing with (and no, I don’t think they’re innocently discussing Proust), what matters is his character. It’s shitty.

    • Sounds exactly like my story. Run as fast as you can. It will get better. They do not have feelings and do not care about who they hurt or if they lie. It’s hard as a nurse not to care and not to fix. You can’t fix this. Take care of you!!!

    • I guess I was blessed with an amazing therapist. She was having none of my ex’s shit and actually had to tell me that he was abusive for the majority of our marriage and then give me examples of that abuse. And still I was like, “Are you sure?”

      I also love that a therapist sent OP here. My experience has not been with the RIC, it’s been with people who tell me to get away from the abuse, support my children, and move on.

      • I really understand the hurt and pain of him blocking you mg.

        It might seem odd to some, but I am fluent in the silent treatment and proficient in withholding. Him blocking is a slight one up on his silent treatment. He does them because they custom create their punishments and he know exactly how it will work on you.

        Don’t be worked.

        I grew up with masters in silent treatment. I was also sexually and physically abused growing up. It was soooooo hard for me to turn the table and turn all that love in on myself rather than what the poor little man went through that would make him treat me like an asshole.

    • This is such great advice in this horrible situation, which you did not in any way cause:

      “Feel free to tell everyone who asks that you are divorcing him because he emotionally abused you, cheated on you and pretty much lied about everything in order to keep you around and ignorant of his character.”

  • My ex- husband told me, “Father Steve says gay sex isn’t cheating because it isn’t sex. There is no possibility of procreation.”

    Imagine my surprise when I discovered it was Father Steve he wasn’t cheating with

    CL is right. It doesn’t matter what flavor of fucked up he is. He’s gaslighting and abusing you. I know it doesn’t feel like it right now but you will be much better off without him. Keep following Chump Lady. It helps.

    And your therapist is awesome to send you here.

  • I had many “I can’t live without you” speeches/texts etc. They just keep you trapped more in lies and trapped longer in abuse. They mess with your head. That being said I’m still fresh out enough where I feel my mind constantly trying to untangle the skein. It’s very difficult not to especially if the relationship/marriage was long and you never saw the situation as ever happening to you. I feel like my mind never shuts down. It’s only been 3 months since I filed but it was 3 years of cheating and me playing the pick me dance and immersing myself in the lies of the reconciliation industry. If anyone has any advice on how to stop that constant mind spinning of why how when what went wrong with him how could he, did I cause this and why her I’d appreciate it.
    I am so thankful for CL and this community. It seriously saved my life.

    • I was the same, and yoga helped a lot. It was a one hour window where the instructor kept reminding the class to refocus their thoughts to the present and it was a much needed mental break.

    • I did emotional transformation therapy (ETT) with a trauma informed Therapist, and when I would start to spiral away into talking about how I just couldn’t understand, she would hold me and remind me that my brain works like that of an honest, compassionate person who would never abuse another person. She said no matter how hard I tried, I would never understand treating someone the way I was treated by my ex-husband because he had a personality-disordered brain, and I did not. She literally had to say that to me probably six or seven times over several sessions as I spun away trying to understand, but it finally clicked that I would never comprehend his abuse. I would never comprehend why he did what he did because I could never dream of treating another human with such terrible disdain. Instead, I just had to accept the reality that he did what he did, I had gone through it all, I was finally free from it, and I had to turn all of my focus on healing and growing in my freedom. Coming to that recognition really did wonders in helping me find deep peace.

      Please be gentle with yourself. It takes time, and you are fresh on your journey.

      • She wouldn’t “hold” me — Sorry, that is a very weird auto correct. She would not touch me. (That is definitely not a safe space for touching.) She would HALT me, stop me in my tracks.

      • Amandajo,

        You have/had a good therapist – mine was good, but didn’t call my ex’s treatment of me ‘abuse’ until I was about three years into therapy. She worked with a lot of sex addicts, and, in my opinion, was way too sympathetic to them and their behaviors. I expressed that my ex was evil, she said no, he’s just a badly wounded man. He may have been badly wounded as a child (mother abandoned him) but that does not give someone the justification to emotionally, psychologically, and sexually abuse anyone, especially their own wife. He was so good at the deceit and gaslighting that I didn’t know how bad it had gotten until I had been separated from him for some time and could look at it from the outside.

        Your therapist is right about you never being able to understand ‘why’. I finally came to the realization that I will never understand how someone can murder another human being, molest a child, or abuse an animal. These disordered ‘men’ fall into the category of things I am not capable of understanding.

        • How many of us could repeat THIS sentence, and have every word be true:

          “He was so good at the deceit and gaslighting that I didn’t know how bad it had gotten until I had been separated from him for some time and could look at it from the outside.”

          Stay mighty, Chump Nation!

      • Amandajo…dang, I wish I could tell this story. I had an abusive, manipulative spouse who (turns out) lied and cheated for decades but I (being the empath) just KEPT TRYING to understand for years and years and feel like I only really got it in the last 2 or 3 years but the worst abuse was lik 15 years ago.

        From 2005->2012, through abandonment, wreckonciliation and his death, I was in the “But why did he…?” stage. You are my hero.

        It was YEARS before I could finally admit that the answer was

        “because he was an asshole, yes, THAT MUCH of an asshole” . and CL is right…the color or brand of the train that runs you over doesn’t matter. If the train was treated badly, that is a shame but it was the trains responsibility to get help.

    • Yoga, meditation, mindfullness, all those things have ways to help you “derail” the obsessive thoughts about it. It is still fresh for you so it will be at the forefront, but time really does heal.

      Mg says her “life is over”. That’s the wrong thing to get out of this. Your lives are now free to BEGIN! Think of it this way, you can now do whatever you want. You don’t have to think about that person’s feelings, needs, wants, preferences now. You can start over and build your life for YOU alone. If that means you find someone new in the future, all the better, but right now you can do whatever you want whenever you want and don’t have to consider the desires of a fuckwit.

      The hurt will slowly dissipate until it is completely gone. It does take time, but it will happen. And if you’ve been building your new life, when it all goes away you already are on the road to awesomeness!

      I cut my hair in a style I always wanted but my ex never liked. I wore makeup and clothing that had always interested me but were both not his “style” and were expenses he begrudged me because he was buying all sorts of crap and putting us into bankruptcy. I could cook whatever I wanted (he was a vegetarian and I wasn’t) and didn’t have to think of his dietary demands. I went places I wanted to and made friends I liked that he would have disapproved of. I lived the life I wanted to because I didn’t have to care about what he wanted anymore.

      You both have that opportunity now. See it for what it is: FREEDOM! Eat ice cream for dinner. Stay up watching only the tv shows you want all night long. Sing the 80s tunes you love without anyone wincing. Paint your living room that color you love that he/she never liked. Make decisions unilaterally without consideration of anyone else. Feels good and keeps you moving forward. Don’t look backward, you’re not going that way.

      Hang in there. It gets much better. It doesn’t matter what your ex does anymore beyond what the lawyers decide. You’re free!

      • This is good and so true. My first step was to buy Dunkin’ Donuts coffee – because I liked it. Ex would’ve turned up his nose at it and berated me for not buying Peets or whatever. Felt good.

        • Good for you! Xh hated women to have short hair. (Course now I joke he needed his women to have long hair so he could remember if he was having sex with abwomanbor man. Ha!) A few weeks after he left, I got my very long hair wacked off to a super short pixie cut. The next time he picked up the kids, I just smiled. I felt like it was a big “YOU DON’T CONTROL ME ANYMORE – FUCK YOU!” Now I think, ya like I really showed him. He didn’t give a crap anymore anyway since I wasn’t useful to him anymore.

      • Thanks for your insight, this is liberating and I think we should all make a list of stuff that we like/love that our exes hated that we should work our way through STAT. Flexing our individuality muscles helps us break free of the concrete that’s been setting around us as we put up with the exes wants and needs over ours.

      • First signs of my happy, new life came to me in the grocery store. F*wit & I used to shop, but he would give me stink-eye or grimace at things I put in the basket.
        After I kicked his sorry ass out, I practically danced down the aisles choosing WHATEVER. THE. FUCK. I. WANTED. And it was GLORIOUS!
        The realization that his disorder spilled over into our every domestic moment reinforced CL’s “trust the they suck” axiom. It helped me to see the daily misery he was willing to inflict on me…and our children – to support his voracious entitlement narrative.

        Mg, look for these little spring crocuses of joy that will be the reinforcement you need to face forward and make Mg’s needs, wants and future as important as they always have been.

    • Suzy,
      The constant rumination makes life so difficult and unhappy, but it is your brain trying to process what happened. Your brain keeps spinning and spinning trying to make sense. At 3 months, that’s where I was too. So talking to a therapist or good friend and journaling can get those thoughts out and help you process. As time goes by, you will get bored with your story if you have done your processing work. You may have a problem with rumination still, but learning to quiet your mind by distraction or CBT (cognitive behavior therapy). You can learn to calm your mind. When I hiked I used to think only about ex and my story. Then I started naming plants that I saw – anything to fill up my headspace with something. If I was desperate I would do multiplication tables in my head. Podcasts are good if you wake up in the middle of the night. Anything to stop the brutal rumination. But the important thing? Have faith that you will get better because you will! Time will help more than anything and 3 months is not much time. I do not suffer anymore and I thought my suffering would never end. So have faith Suzy!

      • Sounds silly, but watching funny YouTube skits helped me so much, like Sylvester the Talking Cat and Ozzyman Reviews. If you can laugh for a minute, you distract yourself from the pain.

      • I used to CONSTANTLY ruminate, trying to wrap my mind around what happened. No fancey therapy, but the passage of time helped me.

        It’s been a year since I moved into my own apartment. The other day I realized I had never vomited in this apartment. (Flu season makes one think about these things). Therefore I hadn’t vomited in a year. In the marital home I would be up constantly in the night, vomiting from all the stress and cognitive dissonance.

        What a sharp contrast. It will get better.

    • Same here with the ruminating over and over and spinning out. I got help through MTE Narcissitic Abuse Recovery Program (NARP)- the money- back- if- it -doesn’t- help- guarantee sold me on it. Plus there are free wrokshops and webinars. It’s not for everyone because as she says there is a “woo-woo” factor. But if you can ignore that and do the self hypnosis excercises, it can help dispell the crazy ruminations and give you peace of mind at least for a few minutes (at the beginning) and then those peaceful interludes can increase. Self-soothing is a learned art. At least it was for me. I don’t need to learn it anymore. Good luck in your recovery. You are mighty!!

    • My therapist referred me to our local Women’s Refuge. At first I resisted because I thought it was only for domestic violence. Turns out it was the best thing I did. I have a skilled therapist who deals with abuse and a social worker who checks on me and gives me legal advice and tips. The abuse, gaslighting and general torture I’ve had and continue to have (no contact except we are in a legal process for property and we have a child) still rolls around in my head too. Some days I just can’t shake the horrible memories of D day and the stunning news of just how bad the cheating was- it was long term and systematic. An entire duplicitous life was going on for 13 of our 24 years, and I didn’t see it, like the amazing Chump of all Chumps! My x said he “needed” to have kinky sex and I was just simply too vanilla. His parting shot was that I was getting old and he was worried what would happen to me sexually as he “needed” to keep having sex for a long time. He also said he was excited to have another family with his girlfriend because I was now too old to have more kids and he wanted more (never said that before that moment). It was all so painful I sometimes feel like I can’t cope. Keep moving, keep winning by living the best you can, keep fit, get good therapy, Know the abuse is ending, read this blog, know you’re not alone, you are one amazing person! Fuck them and the way they torture us. Fuck that! I’d rather be a Chump than a torturing asshole. Love to all Chumps out there!

      • The vile, cruel parting shots. You have to figure, how miserable and disordered someone has to be to say that crap. He’ll never be happy. All the young women and kinky sex in the world will never fill that void. Oh and isn’t interesting that while the rest of us (the entire human race) grow older they somehow think they escape the aging process. What a loser.

    • Every night when going to sleep I listen to a guided meditation on you tube, quietly, in the dark, warm under the duvet. My favourite is Lauren Ostrowski Fenton. She has meditations lasting from 20 minutes to a full 7 1/2 hour, through a nights sleep. It usually helps me to quiet the intrusive thoughts and obsessing. I’ve been doing this every night for months now and I think it is really helping. Maybe worth giving it a try. Seems like meditation can still get through to your subconscious while you sleep. But there are loads to choose from, voice only or with background music/sounds such as rainfall or the sea.

    • Time, yoga and a good therapist helped me derail my brain from constant thoughts.
      I also started a challenge of trying to find the positive or “silver lining “ in crappy situations.
      For example when I had to move into a tiny rundown house my new place had the most perfect alcove where I grew the most beautiful and amazing orchids.
      My dramatic weight loss made me feel good. The bond I have with my amazing kids has gone from strength to strength.
      My ex stalling for 3 years on settlement actually improved my end settlement result.
      It became a game I put more and more focus on and only on rare occasion did I not find a positive.
      It’s still a habit now for all kinds of life’s curve balls, even tho I’m most definitely at meh ????

  • What a nightmare!

    I’m always in shock when I read people talking about how they would go through *different versions of fire* for their marriage, I was in fact one of those people, but now it’s just shocking: what in our brain made us think for a second that any part of that mess was “normal”?

    Oh, I know…! Being conditioned by an abusive asshole that it was…!!!

  • ‘You would have made your needs smaller and smaller for him.’
    Mg, it hurts so much because you loved him and still love him. You meet the Chump Nation entry requirements. Welcome to the club!
    My whole marriage was always focussed around the poor, abused, XHole.
    I’m realising that it was never a healthy love on my part, as I did make my needs smaller and smaller, until I effectively became a doormat.
    Now, to work on healing, finding boundaries and protection with healthy self love. And to fix my picker.
    Mg, sorry for your pain. (Hugs)

  • Yes, Mg, it doesn’t matter if he is gay or whatever.

    What DOES matter is that he does not respect, you, he does not love, he will never build any kind of safe future with you. Even if you were homeless, would you live on top of a cesspool and keep hoping one day it turns into a tropical paradise? Because a cesspool is where you are trying to build your life now. The spots for cesspools are chosen for a reason.

    Be safe!

    • What does matter is that he does not respect you, does not love and will never build any kind of safe future with you! I wish I’d seen that when I was pick-me dancing. I could have been divorced a whole lot sooner and gotten started on gaining a life!

  • Oh God I can resonate with this story. My ( now ex) husband made himself available to women and men couples male /female or female /female on online sex swinging sites. When I discovered this he swore to me he wasn’t gay and had not had anal sex with a man only oral ( he said!) He said he went with couples and did it to the woman while the partner watched on. I was sick as I thought of the times he had kissed me or touched me. I felt humiliated and dirty. He probably didn’t wash or brush his teeth after he had been with these people. I have no clue if it was protected with a condom or unprotected sex. He advertised himself as a ”mature professional married man my wife knows I am on here” Maybe the ”married” attracts these deviants? He said he met his current AP on one of those sites. He had made himself a bolthole to her house. He had propositioned hundreds before she took him up on an offer. How ‘special’ is that? I left him – filed for divorce within a week – there is no fixing that shit!

  • Mg, what is the most interesting to me, are your reasons for giving more, more, more, and what chimes he was ringing for you? It seems to me there’s a deep need you have, that this umm, strange person, was filling. A lot of us come from unfortunate childhoods, that left us clinging onto charming/abusive partners! Please, figure this out! I’m so glad you’re seeing a good therapist, and I hope you have a kind girlfriend or sister to turn to. This shit he put you through is deep!
    Time for some self-searching, and learning what you really want in a partner, so this never happens again.

  • The universe sent you a Door. Open it and run for your life. You just can’t fix this one. And really – you dont have to any more.

    • Simple, succinct, and brilliant. This is the birth of a classic meme.


    • Trudy ‘The universe sent you a Door. Open it and run for your life. You just can’t fix this one. And really – you don’t have to any more.’ Thank you! I am going to write that down in my journal of Gratitude!

  • My Ex wasn’t exactly gay (he did watch gay porn but always went for women), but we could have married the same jerk, MG, based on your description of him and your experiences.

    Go NO CONTACT. What a wonderful thing. I also felt (and still feel) a lot of compassion and hurt. But none of my compassion or hurt or anything made any difference at all. I could not coddle or nurse this.

    Just the fact that he is seeing gay men and threesomes is a health-risk deal breaker. Save yourself and get out. Many of us have been abused, but his adultery and perversion doesn’t spring from abuse- it comes from selfish and entitled character traits. He could have done anything to self-soothe like get a hobby, join a church, make paper airplanes. He has chosen to continue the abuse cycle and abuse YOU.

    No Contact has worked wonders for me. Good luck.

  • Point the question in the right direction.

    My needs, which I spoke up about, were ignored. For YEARS.

    My need for honesty, communication, truth, conflict resolution.

    My need for boundaries with his invasive, enmeshed, codependent, alcoholic, dysfunctional family.

    My need to be treated as an equal partner with equal power financially.

    My need for a relationship based in recovery (we met in AA).

    My need for my dreams to be just as important as his.

    My need to be treated as the primary relationship, instead of his family of origin
    (and his collection of cockroach side pieces unbeknownst to me until


    Why, Velvet Hammer, did you stay?

    My marriage was NOT OK for a long time and I accepted it. Then when DDay came, I was willing to stay and attempt to reconcile! (You can’t repair a Ming vase when it’s been reduced to powder by a sledgehammer, by the way…..)

    I stayed because I wanted to believe he was the self-reported nice guy in recovery.

    I stayed because he went to therapy with me…..for 27 years… my request when we got together because I wanted to learn how to have a healthy relationship. I will never know how much he lied or for how long. New chumps who are elated that he will go to therapy with you? Check that number above and hear me when I say it MEANS NOTHING if they go to therapy. They show up in that room and sit on that couch and LIE LIE LIE all the time. He has even been lying to his OWN therapist that he started seeing on his own after DDay.

    I stayed because I am loyal and not a quitter. I stayed because I am like a squirrel with a Crackerjack box if I think there is a prize inside.

    I stayed because he threw out enough crumbs to make me think I had a whole
    loaf of bread. Enough pearls to make me think I had a whole strand.

    But the real truth about why I stayed is because he was someone who validated what I believed about myself. He reflected what I believed I am worth. He reflected what I believed about myself.

    The pot of gold is untangling MY OWN skein, the only one I have the power to untangle. I have been on my own for 2.5 years since DDay doing my healing and my homework, not getting distracted by another relationship (for which I am not currently qualified to be in IMHO). By getting an “A” in Velvet Hammer, the rest takes care of itself.

    My needs were really ignored by ME. And the Golden Why is asking that of MYSELF.

    • Screenshot this one! There are so many words of truth in this VH….one of the dick’s friends said to me soon after I got “ the text”…..” you were never part of his clan and he was very clannish”. Hmmmm 27 years of marriage, 3 babies, and I was never part of his family! I release him to his alcoholic, cheater clan….. but I will fight to keep my kids from going down that road with my last breath.

      • Oh shit! I got the not your “clan” line too. In this case my ex said I wasn’t in his “tribe”, which apparently meant I was the boring woman at home who took care of his child while he was out late, beating up women for the S&M sex he wanted, spending family money and then sleeping in and missing work and family time. He’s right, that’s my tribe. He found a young woman from that tribe and now he lost his job, wife, friends, family, neighbors and all respect from anyone who’s not in that tribe! Hope it was worth it. Hope Springs- you are in the good clan.

    • ???? you Velvet Hammer. You speak so much wisdom, which you have gained through a ton of pain and hard work. Thank you for sharing, you have helped so many of us here.

    • Amen to this post Velvet! Well said.

      Why did I ignore my own needs for so long? THIS is the million dollar question. THIS is what I need to ruminate on, not the slimy shit going on in his head.

      Yuck, now I feel the need to shower just for mentioning him. ????

    • “ But the real truth about why I stayed is because he was someone who validated what I believed about myself. He reflected what I believed I am worth. He reflected what I believed about myself.”

      I couldn’t have said it any better myself. And coming to that realization is helping me figure MYSELF out vs untangling HIS skein.

      Well said VH ????????????????

  • I, too, was married to a man who had “an alternative sexuality,” as he referred to it. I, too, was willing to “walk through fire” to support him, and gave him all that stuff you did: more sex, more attention, etc. etc.

    And my now-ex, like yours, employed the silent treatment when confronted or when trying to manipulate me into going along with whatever boundaries of mine he was attacking. They know that our empathy is our weakness, and that they test our boundaries and groom us and manipulate us to move the lines ourselves.

    And yes, it hurts. It hurts like a mother-f*cker. To be devalued, to be subjected to the very specific assault on our sense of ourselves as women that results when one is married to a person who is hiding their sexuality. You have to grieve and you have to process your anger.

    But you are now on the road to mighty. You’ve seen the truth, and although you’re in the grieving stage, and have yet to let go of your need for him to “own what he did,” you’ll get there. I’m almost two years out from moving out, and 15 months out from divorce. Most of the time since those events I’ve spent recovering (which also involved early retirement, as we worked together and I needed to get away). Only in the past month or so have I begun to look forward to the life I’m now able to live, and for the first time since D-Day–almost five years ago–I feel optimistic about my life. I promise you will, too.

    • You know, I am just now seeing the silent treatments I was getting from my ex-husband long before we married. There were no cell phones then, texting wasn’t a thing. He just didn’t answer his landline when he was angry at me. He was giving me a silent treatment AT WORK the day I got a needle stick injury from a patient with active HIV and Hepatitis C. I had to go to the ER to get started on anti-virals, and he would not even acknowledge me! Two years out, and I’m just now seeing that. I’ve got a lot of fixing myself to work on!

      • The silent treatment is such a passive aggressive technique, too, that both punishes and manipulates. He knew that I would be on pins and needles about why he wasn’t talking to me, and I’d step up to ask “what’s wrong?” or “what did I do?” Yet because he hadn’t actually DONE anything (silence misinterpreted as not doing anything, when in fact that refusal to speak is an action in and of itself), it was hard to see that as anything but a reaction to something I’d done wrong.

  • Recovery is when we pay attention to actions instead of words. Words only matter if they match actions.


  • While I understand that a lot of people ( men especially ) need to take the sexual edge off between sessions , there is a big difference between just hitch hiking under the sheets and actively seeking others to be with while doing so . He wasn’t like on a team or something like “The International Association of Pencil Polishers “! I believe that you have a sneak and a bullshitter on your hands . MG you have shown amazing character and commitment by standing by him and trying to help him. He rewards you by hiding gaslighting and engaging further . I too have a high sexual need and was sexually abused as a child , I’m in therapy to this day (wide range of issues ) 50 + years later . But having been chumped in the past I understand my actions affect more than me. I realize who I love and would never want to hurt . The real issue in your case is not so much his dalliances (although they are fucked up) but the fact that he doesn’t think of the peripheral consequences . That you become collateral damage to his fuckedupedness . That he is supposed to protect you even if it’s from himself . Loving someone doesn’t give license to taking their abuse and bullshit .

  • Why did he block you?

    Because you aren’t blind to his truth, whatever the truth may be. And you left.
    Like Chump Lady says – consequences.
    And accountability as the divorce process continues.
    He is a coward who will lie so as not to reveal any truth about him and his activities.

    What do you do?

    1. You keep no contact. Everyone going thru this process will tell you “I have to talk to him” or “It’s important to maintain contact so I can dig up more”. No, you don’t. It will cause you more pain and won’t reveal anything that you really need. Every contact is like drinking a bit of arsenic. Not a good idea unless your lawyer tells you to.

    2. Make sure you have the best lawyer available. If not, change lawyers. Let your lawyer talk to their lawyer and you keep on your lawyer to push the process forward.

    3. Dig. Put your fury and energy into finding every document, every credit card. Go through any financial documents with a fine tooth comb. Always follow the money. Any substantial withdrawals must be accounted for. Start a spreadsheet with money spend on any extracurricular activities or purchases. Keep a record of any large withdrawals (amount threshold determined by income and your lawyers suggestion). Be your own advocate and the best unprofessional paralegal you can be.

    4. Get help! Therapy. Support groups. Friends. Medication if needed and only YOU and a healthcare professional can decide if it’s needed.

    5. Keep yourself engaged in your job and focus on being a good employee. Keep your work life and personal life as separate as possible. This advice from someone who didn’t do that. It was the best I could do at the time but I do wish I hadn’t had hysterical phone calls with my lawyer in my office.

    6. Get good support where you can find it but also have the wisdom to cut off anyone who doesn’t have your back 100 percent. That applies to family members too.

    7. Really try VERY hard to accept that you will NEVER know what he is/was and that it doesn’t really matter.

    In my case, the kids and I thought that the AP was gay. Never any boyfriends or dates. We accepted that and never gave it much thought. Of course we were kind to her because we thought she was alone!

    Ten years out from DDay, I am alright with never knowing if he is gay. Something doesn’t add up in my head. Maybe is was a pain old crappy affair? They’re still together. Was she his beard? What are they into? Whatever.

    I have truly been able to accept that what he did to me was so abusive that his reason doesn’t matter. He withheld sex for 10 years before DDay knowing that it was killing my soul. That was abuse. He lied to me for how many years? I have accepted that I will never know how many affairs he had and if they were with men, women or donkeys. His lying to someone who adored him is the only abuse that counts. His lying to his children is abuse. His using our finances to pay for his escapades is abuse. His asking his kids if it was OK if he had to work late instead of coming home to spend time with them was abuse.

    The abuse is all that matters in the end. Walking away from that skein of fuckedupness was the best feeling ever! Hard to do? OMG! I’ve always said that to chumps, time is our best friend ????????

    Tuesday is out there for all of us. No rushing it. Do what you can to move forward (see points above). Protect yourself legally and get the best settlement you can – you only get one shot at this. And breathe.

    • AP somehow suits his needs, very possible she is a beard, maybe he is as well and they have struck a bargain. If your ex is not gay (or asexual) and he withheld sex for 10 years he is more than likely a narcissistic sociopath. I was engaged to one when I was young and he withheld sex after being together for nearly a year.. Of course at the beginning that is all he wanted… when he stopped I began to think what is wrong with me? Of course back then I would have cut my tongue out before I brought the subject up. Very conflicting that he wanted to get married and yet we had no sex. He worked out of the country for periods of time and then of course I found out he was not only fooling around, the other girl got pregnant. She flew up to the states so it was hard to hide. She wanted him desperately, I said good riddance. He screwed up her life, dumped her and the kid, never paid a dime in support. Every once in awhile he would try to worm his way back to me but by there was no way and I cringed at the thought of him.

      • Oh and just to add my ex cheater had the same playbook for every relationship……heavy pursuit, lots of sex for a bit and then no sex at all. He became worse though as he didn’t want to work (got fired or just no showed at every job) so he pursued women that would support him.

  • Mg, everyone above has already said so many helpful things. I’m just reiterating that there is nothing to work with in your marriage. You’re lucky he blocked you. He’ll Hoover back for attention at some point and hopefully by then you’ll be far down the path to Meh (that wonderful land where we are divorced from hit cheaters and have built our cheater-free lives and value ourselves and actually laugh when we remember how absurd the abuse was, we laugh because we are FREE and content — no contact t, divorce, and time will get you here—- join us! We are waiting for you).

  • He is a lying, sneaky, rotten, jackass who slithered into your life. There is no need to try to diagnosis him. He is who he is. If you leave the scaffolding of his life is gone. That’s been your job, propping him up. You deserve better than that.

  • Mg,

    You’re definitely not alone with what you’re going through. My xh walked out for an ow (seemingly out of the blue to me at the time). He didn’t/ wouldnt give me any real reasons why he left, other then he hadn’t been happy for awhile. While searching any online stuff of his I could find on his computer in an attempt to try & make some sense of it, I got the shock of my life. I discovered not only had he been cheating with multiple women for years but also with men! That fact is actually still a little shocking to me years later.

    When confronted, he said he wasn’t gay or even bisexual because he only had sexnworh men a few times a year. I then found out he had sex with men at least since college, years before we met. When asked why he lied and never told me he said because he didn’t think I would have married him if I knew. That right there is the real issue & ptoblem.

    I had been 100% honest with him about all the good & bad about me. He claimed he had been too. It was all a lie. He had always said whatever he thought it was I wanted to hear at the time. I bared my sole to him (which is what I thought was a necessity before marriage) yet what I got in return was lies and cover ups.

    I spent years trying to figure out if he was really a closeted gay, bisexual, or what. Save yourself that time & tangled mess of a mindfuck. It’s so hard to see it now but in the end, all that really matters is the fact that he lied & deceived you, his a secret life from you, & didn’t have any concern about your health or heart. It was all about him & his needs & wants at the expense of you. That’s not love. That’s someone using you. He’s most likely incapable of loving anymore then on the surface. Deep love & true bonding just isn’t in him.

    You wont be able to realize this until later on but, be very thankful you found out a few years into the marriage & before kids (it doesn’t sound like you had kids with him at least). I had been married 16 years and had brought 2 innocent kids into the mix. Later on you will be thankful your fuckwit blocked you so you don’t have the chance of being reeled back in. (It often happens as fuckwits are master manipulators & will pull at every heart string & push every button possible to be able to use you some more. If he ever comes crawling back to you, don’t give him that opportunity. Squash him like the big he is!)

    As others have noted, you’re therapist is awesome! Consider yourself very lucky to have found one who sees cheating as the abuse it is. Many of us haven’t been that fortunate & stayed for more years of abuse due to bad counseling advice.

    • I wonder if they block us( I think I blocked him first, but not sure) so we don’t have access to their new lies. I tried to counter all the lies with truth and proof…..the dick had the grown kids in therapy with him( pretty sure his lawyer said this would look good if we had to go to court……this was before he realized he could never let this get on the court record or he would lose his clearance). Therapy for him was a way to get the kids to hear his lies……good thing they used it against him and knew it was bullshit.
      The OP said he was lying to friends about her …..that’s troubling, and probably why he blocked her…..

    • The original text I found was from a prostitute. I knew then and there the marriage was done after 26 years together. In digging through his phone and computer, I found strange men, strange women hook ups in their homes in the middle of the day in town, swing clubs, orgies… I had an attorney within two weeks and had him move out within two months. Then remembered I had a thumb drive full of shit from his computer from 10 years earlier where I had caught him in chat rooms (different technology landscape then) where he was engaging in hook up conversations and found replies to craigslist ads for transvestites, transgender’s, BDSM. When I looked at the thumb drive after D day, I couldn’t believe what I was reading. All I remember him telling me then was that it was all fantasy and I believed him. Sent him to see a therapist and did six sessions. Six!

      But after reading everything on that thumb drive again and googling all the code terms in the ads, I realized he had been doing this a long time and with anything that had two legs.

      I called his ex-wife that I had never spoken with before because he had always said she was crazy. They had had a child together and he never went to see that child even though I urged him to do it multiple times a year. His son, now an adult, had finally reconnected through Facebook and come to visit twice with his wife. When I found out what he had been doing, I had told everyone I knew through messenger. They had told her that I was leaving him.

      The first words out of his ex-wife’s mouth were “was he getting blowjobs from other guys”? Said he cheated on her with women and men on the base, ruined them financially, took her car and abandon her and the infant, drugs, drinking…

      Therapist assured me that he did not take a sabbatical from all of that between his first wife and my discovery day. They just get better at hiding it.

      Within four months of throwing him out, I had him come and pick up his stuff. I hired a police officer for a “keep the peace” detail. I had stockpiled his stuff in the shop adjacent to the house but kept the house locked.

      I had warned him to bring a truck big enough, friends to help him, boxes, packing tape, etc. But he came alone and left shit behind because he couldn’t carry everything and/or fit everything into the truck. He left his bank statements and other important documents behind. I found that he had dissipated over $1 million of our assets over the years.

      I wanted to die. He had led a whole double life. I didn’t know who this man was. And he never apologized. He never scrambled to keep our marriage together.

      It wasn’t until I read/listened to Dr. George Simon, through this site, that I came to understand that he is a disordered character. You can’t fix them. It’s not that they don’t understand, it’s that they don’t care. That when they no the gig is up, they’re done with you.

      Knowing that has been what keeps me sane.

      No contact. And get a good lawyer. I’m on my second and should’ve ditched her early on. I am two years & three months out from D-day. He keeps stonewalling the whole divorce process. He’s trying to wear me out. But I’m hoping to settle before the status hearing next Thursday. I need to end this madness. Sell the house and move on.

  • There is no point being loyal to a disloyal person. He is not who you thought he was. It’s a heart breaker, but you can’t love a person out of being who they are.

  • “He swore he…”

    Whatever. He also swore a vow when he married you, but he lied about that too.

    He blocked you? Count yourself lucky and remove his number. This is why you have a lawyer. If he doesn’t want to talk to you, he can read the letters sent to his lawyer by your lawyer.

    Good luck. Thank goodness your therapist sent you here (and follow CL’s advice – contact Straight Spouse Network).

    • I like true crime. Full of creeps who swear on their mothers, children and/ or God they didn’t do ir. DNA usually says otherwise.

  • HUGE hugs to the OP…. This is my story almost EXACTLY. My ex was additionally involved in group sex with other men, brought men to the house, and honestly, that was really only the tip of the iceberg. The more I learned the more horrified I was ( not that he was gay…I have no issue with being gay, it was the risks he took on a weekly basis and the danger he put us in, very real..). I made myself so small to try and save ( what exactly I was “saving” I am not sure now) my marriage…I nearly disappeared. I was devastated…After 30 years of marriage, there was a complete monster living in the house with me. I am 8 years out from DDay, 5 years out from leaving, and nearly 2 years post divorce. Mg, please go no contact, leave this man to mire in his own shit. I KNOW it’s going to be hard NOT to spend time trying to figure out the how and why. I wrestled with it. My brain just couldn’t make sense out of all of it, but you need to get to a point where you stop spending valuable time and energy on HIM and redirect your energy to rebuilding YOU. I needed to learn how to set and adhere to boundaries, and when I did, my sense of worth climbed. It has been a tough 5 years, but I am INFINTELY happier than I was, because I’m in charge of my life and my own happiness. I steer the boat now. You can do this. The grass is greener and the sun shines more often over here.

  • 1) Mg, he has sex with men (and more than just jerking off together). He’s either gay or bisexual. You were useful as his beard and now you aren’t. So now he won’t even acknowledge your existence. He’s a user, Mg. What more do you need to know?

    2) He blocks you to make you feel insignificant and to escape being held accountable. He’s a coward and a spousal abuser, just the kind who doesn’t use his fists as punishment. He lies about you behind your back and pulls a vanishing act in order to cheat with dudes instead.

    3) The whole “it’s because I have a thing for threesomes due to my naughty ex” excuse is rancid cowplop and insulting to your intelligence. He’s not doing threesomes. He’s blowing dudes.

    4) Being abused as a child does not cause cheating. Being an entitled, selfish, callous asshole does.

    5) Occam’s razor applies here. He hasn’t said he’s sorry simply because he’s not sorry. He doesn’t say he can’t live without you because he can. He knows he can con somebody else into being his beard. Con artists move to another victim if the current one catches on.

    Of course you’re hurting. We all know that pain and feel for you. This creep ripped your heart out of your chest and spat on it. He’s treated you with utter contempt because he’s a cruel and heartless person, not a lost soul. Let your attorney take it from here. You need to block him in case he decides to start his whiny please-pity-poor-little-me spiel to get you to be his beard again. You’re vulnerable to his manipulations right now. The good news is you didn’t breed with the fuckwit. That means there’s no need to ever see him again.

    • “Being abused as a child does not cause cheating. Being an entitled, selfish, callous asshole does.”


      My mantra when I started trying to leave was, “Focus on my own life. Focus on my own life.” Every time I thought about him, I’d say, “Focus on my own life.” It worked.

  • There is a book by James Patterson and a movie of the same name. Kiss The Girls. It’s about a girl who is kidnapped and locked in an underground cell with cement walls. Her abductor tells her to “not call out or you will be killed.” But she does call out and asks through a crack in the door “hey, is anybody out there?” And one by one other abducted women started saying their name and how long they think they have been trapped in the cell. Anyway, that’s how I feel right now.
    I’m devastated this happened to me and my world is shattered however at the same time I am thankful to know I am not alone.

    I’m so sorry for all you, all of us, who have been emotionally kidnapped and threatened from our abductor.
    I am also extremely great full. To my therapist for sharing this site. Chumplady for having the initial courage to create this community where all our voices can be heard and responding to my desperate email. And I’m great full to all of you out there. Those who responded and those who read my story.
    I am brand new at this journey into recreating my life but I know I will survive!!

    • You sure will survive, Mg! You will do SO much more than that. Take life one day, one hour, one breath at a time, and get through each part of this experience with your head held high. You can do this. We’ve all done this, and we are CHEERING YOU ON. Come on, girl! ????

    • Mg v,
      I totally relate to the Kiss the Girls book comparison. It totally was an abduction, imprisonment and abuse.
      Thanks be to God that I googled the word ‘boundaries’ and up popped ChumpLady’s website.
      Seriously, Tracey and Chump Nation have saved my life.
      Make sure you block your XHole and do No Contact like a boss so you can start healing and heading towards Meh.

  • Often it turns out to be more than they say. Now to apply your compassion and understanding to yourself. Also STI tests. Time helps as you move on.

  • This is one of your best ones ever Traci, this is 100% my ex Narc husband he deals with nothing!

  • Welp. I’m not the MG in question, I’ve been on here since about 2015, i think. Maybe not that far back, but i remember reading this blog for years. Now that that’s out of the way:

    Mg, from one Mg to another – just walk away. Just talk to your lawyer, have the 2 lawyers mediate your divorce and get into therapy.

    I read some similarites between your post an what i went through. My WS was heavy into swinging in his 2nd marriage. Even pulled dudes off craigslist to swap pics and fantasies. I don’t have proof he ever met anyone.
    In my marriage to him he was heaaaavy into emotional affairs as stimulation. Nothing i said or did ever changed that and i got the “can’t live without you” bs many, many times.
    He also said it’s not cheating because there was no sex. Maybe not piv. But everything else that should have been mine was lavished on his workplace schmoopie. I endured months of abuse: emotional, verbal, even some physical.
    She got his good side. The banter. The playfulness. The sexual stimulation of flirting. The daily good morning or good night texts and further texts at work… Did i mention they had convos about masturbation habits betweem shift change? He masturbated in our bed to her, while i was left languishing and went for weeks-months in a dead bedroom.

    Point is: just cut it off like a cancerous limb. Go through lawyers only and stop giving him mental real estate. No matter how much good you’ve done for someone, how much grace you’ve bestowed, they are ungrateful, selfish brats.

  • Mg,
    It’s terrible to hear your story and imagine your shock and heartbreak. Thank God your therapist recommended CL! My situation is similar to yours. He was doing the JO Buddy hookups off Craigslist (JO = jerk off). Oh the things I’ve learned and the pictures I’ve seen – wish there was a disinfectant for my eyes.
    I got the “I can’t live without you” speech with tears streaming down his face while he was on his KNEES. He went to therapy immediately and did a Loving Kindness meditation for me every morning. All LIES. All of it. Three years divorced now and I really don’t care what he was up to. I only know the tip of the iceberg and that is enough. I spent 2 years in wreconciliation trying to untangle the skein – bisexuality? gay? sex addiction? Ugh you know what is? People are objects to him – he didn’t care what sex was on the other side of the camera as long as he was being watched or watching something. There is something so fundamentally wrong with these people. Normal people have a hard time wrapping their heads around it.
    The excitement of planning a sex hookup, the sneaking around, the lies – that’s what fuels them. It’s not a sex problem, it’s a character problem. But to justify their behavior, they have so make someone bad and that someone is you. When you said he lied to friends and family about any argument you had, this is how he justifies. In his mind, you have been the bad guy in your marriage for so long – even though you did nothing wrong. Psychologically it’s the only way they can be ok with their double lives: he knows he’s doing something wrong but he can’t be the bad guy so the smear campaign against you starts. Both in his mind and to his friends and family. For me, this was just as bad as his sexual behavior. I am way further out than you and want you to know that you will process this, you will recover, and everything will get easier and easier as time goes on. Have faith in that. You will move into a happier and better life. You will!

  • I got the “I can’t live without you” speech from my first husband. After he tried to get me into a foursome with his boss and the boss’s GF. And before I found out he was having sex with his X-Wife. And who knows who else?

    • Oh yeah, the don’t WANT to live without us! They WANT to keep eating cake!

      The only thing that’s important at that point is what WE want, given that we can’t actually get what we thought we already had, a caring, honest life partner.

  • Oh yeah. I was served this same logic. After I saw the girl on girl porn gif in his text convo with an unrecognised number when I borrowed his phone to google something which he reluctantly handed over and in cane the reply.

    I holed up in the toilet screaming “who is it?” And he said “ok, it’s a guy”.

    I laughed. I really did. If it’s a guy why are you sharing girl on girl porn?

    He only said that cos I’d walked in on him sucking our lawyers dick 7 years prior, while pregnant (read as invested). I’d said I didn’t want to be the person who stopped him from being gay but it needed to be transparent and open and honest.

    Guess what. It never was. I was only pregnant after 3 years of trying to get pregnant because of angry breakup sex after finding him screwing not one but two women.

    I’d found condoms in his pocket after his weekly movie dates with our lawyer. While we were trying for a baby. I was gaslit to fuck. I wanted that 2nd baby goddammit.

    I put up with years of going along with his insistence on swinging, making out he was doing me a favour because he let the third be a guy.

    Guess what? He was telling all our friends I had a boyfriend so he could run around with his girlfriend for 4 years while I stayed home with the kids. Yep, same girlfriend whose good with girl on girl gifs in her text box.

    I won’t go on (there’s much more). The autogynophilia a whole other can of worms. The stealing of my underwear and gifting it to his women was interesting. But these closeted fuckwits have mummy issues. Big time. A man unable to come out of the closet who needs to be with women so he can devalue them and abuse them to feel superior isn’t a man to feel sorry for. That’s what they want. The sad sausage psychopath play. They all do it. All cheaters. He’s closeted. That’s his decision to manage. Not yours. Walking away is serious the best thing you can do. The skein is beyond untangling.

    • these closeted fuckwits have mummy issues

      Yes, they do, and they cast us as their mummy and alternately love-bomb and punish us as a substitute for her.

      I couldn’t figure out why I always felt as though I didn’t exist to him, and finally found out it was because he never saw me. He just projected his mother onto me. What a waste of my life.

      The only way to sanity leads out of relationships with these men.

  • He is not broken. What?!

    Sure he might be messed up, a pervert, a deviant, a liar, a cheater, an abuser, an absolute manipulative psycho, however, he is also an adult who chooses to live exactly how it suits him. This suits him therefore he is not broken from his personal perspective. If it didn’t suit him? He’d change without your help or prompting or begging. People have this thing called free will and he is using his to get off on sneaking around sleeping with men. He likes it that way and not any other way and no, it’s not something you’ll ever understand because you are not him.

    All you can do as a chump is ask yourself – does this shit work for me? No? Then that’s that. You can love him from far away, like so far away you forget what he looks like. He blocked you? Good. Let your lawyers actually earn their fees. You step out of this mess and focus on untangling your own skein of why you thought that a person who handles conflict by blocking and not speaking to you was good marriage material. That’s a skein you can actually fix and need to. If you are going to go through hell, best outcome is to learn how not to enter it again and again.

  • I’ll speak from personal experience here as many men (myself included) have been conditioned through nature or nurture to disavow any inclination to homosexuality. I went through a stage early in my youth experimenting with it. Was I homosexual? Bisexual? Heterosexual?

    For myself I rapidly determined that:
    1) I was Normal, and
    2) I was not homosexual nor bisexual.
    Having dipped my toe in the investigative waters, my answer was clear that I liked women.

    The first rule of fight club relative to my exploration applied to any conversation going forward. With anyone. For decades.
    Maturity however allayed my social fears of rejection especially if I was able to help someone else going through this identity struggle. Sharing my experience, Strength and hope- without judgement- thus becomes an asset rather than a sin I must keep hidden.

    I glance back into history proves that all manner of sexual expression has existed since time began.
    I’m not prejudiced against lesbians, monogamists, bisexuals, homosexuals or any other descriptors humans have used to describe sexuality. My opinion however does turn negative in instances involving socially unacceptable expressions such as pedophilia, necromancy, beastiality and the like which I find abhorrent and an anathema.
    Some things are just inherently Wrong.

    Today I discovered this particular gem that explains in clear logical thought My 6th sense of knowing my xw was cheating on (abusing) me. We are wired to detect it. DARVO detection.

    It’s in the references credits from Tracy’s DARVO link.

    When I married both my wives, I made a contract with both to foresake all others. My 1st divorce was to remove myself and my daughter from an alcoholic marriage and break the cycle of the dysfunction I’d witnessed in my father. More so my sobriety which was paramount because without that I would be doomed to repeat the travesty.

    My second marriage and subsequent divorce was from xw’s adultery. Plus all the accoutrement dysfunctional behaviors and abuses that are common symptoms of their Black-holed souls.

    Mg, you’re a nurse. You’re training will gird up your loins and strengthen your difficult journey ahead. You are not alone. You’ve done all you can for triage.

    Because you have a heart ❤️ you will suffer a bit further, a bit longer; however, the pain does end.
    It ends faster when you put distance and silence between yourself and the mirage you find yourself joined to. Listen to us. Heed our advice. Get into action. Your survival depends on it.

    This Too Shall Pass.

  • Dear Mg,

    Trust CL’s words, from first hand experience I can tell you NO Contact is essential for you to be able to stop obsessing over this. You have been abused, it might take some time to come to terms with that but it is true. Hang out here and you will soon see you are not alone and it will probably shock you at first just how much you resonate with others as you read their stories. Mine Cheater was passive-aggressive would do stuff he knew he would cause arguments so he then had a reason to sulk or make me feel like shit and give him space. D’day saw him confess to multiple same sex partners including an “affair” would and still does not identify as being gay. Blamed it following D’day on being curious, and being demonically possessed. Because I ended the marriage he felt he was entitled to keep, He and others felt it was my responsibility to maintain the marriage for his sake. I never got a “I can’t live without you” speech and I’m glad.
    So in the words of CL – Thank you CL excellently put. “You were married to a man who was abusing you. It doesn’t matter what flavor of fucked up he is. Your response was entirely sane and appropriate — you protected yourself and you left.” Mg look after you.

  • Mg–

    I love that your therapist sent you here. You’ve had great support and Chump Nation has told you truly.

    Now, ask yourself why your therapist sent you here.

    First, we’re a community. While our cheaters all have different flavors of cheating, they are all CHEATERS! They lie. They blameshift! They gaslight! Once you start reading, you discover that the heartfelt confession that your cheater is a poor victim of Sex Addiction and Cannot Help Himself if He Doesn’t Have Sex X Many Times a Day is a standard response. What he’s doing is blaming you. If only you’d had sex while you were heaving your guts out with that stomach bug he’d never have cheated with that man on Craigs List!

    Second, my sneaking suspicion is that your therapist has been singing the same song as we are but you’re still wrapped up in Trying to Understand.

    There is only one true reason why someone cheats: because they can.

    Once you truly get this, you understand that while it’s natural to try to untangle the skein of fuckedupness, it’s ultimately a futile exercise. First, you can’t. Second, even if you could, what would that mean? That you could somehow control their desire to cheat? It doesn’t work like that. At the heart of the matter, they decided that it was okay to cheat.

    Honest people don’t cheat. That’s the bottom line.

    I’m thrilled that you’ve lawyered up and sought therapy. Keep on reading all the archives and get CL’s book. You are mighty, and the more you trust that they suck, the less you worry about the “why” of their cheating and the more you work on gaining a life.

    • There was a pic online recently of a house almost buried in tumbleweed….I’ll try to remember where I saw it. I immediately thought of the skein. I’ve been down lately and had a setback since my doggo crossed the bridge in Nov. time to walk and laugh again

  • After hearing the words from my therapists mouth again ‘yes I think that relationship was abusive’, I have faced reality and come out of denial and blocked him (second attempt).
    I realise I was harbouring little dreams of character bypass surgery being performed! I’m sharing this with CN to cement my decision.

  • So sorry for the pain and shock you have had to endure. You’re a smart gal, he is not normal and you cannot fix him no matter what you try to understand. Please read the advice of those who have gone before you. DON’T waste anymore of your good years with this hot mess. IMHO once they cross over to all that kinky shit there is no undoing any of it, I stuck it out over 3 decades, understanding that he was simply abusing me was it!!!! Respect yourself, you deserve more out of this ONE life you have been given. The lies, deceit, betrayal and abuse are reason enough to Run…Don’t walk. The man you thought you married doesn’t exist. It will only get worse and trust me this crap will break you and what he is doing is compromising your health by sleeping with god knows what. Don’t fall for the sympathy card. I heard it all and honestly Im not sure any of it was true. So many lies. 4 yrs divorced and free from the crazy!! Peace.

  • My ex was sexually molested as a child by a man. He’s pretty messed up sexually (orgies, threesomes, performing for a crowd, prostitutes, etc etc).

    BUT what he did to me was his CHOICE. Not an automatic result of what happened when he was 7. And he chose to do it who knows how many times over 12 of our 27 year marriage. No one held a knife, nor paid him a million dollars… not was it easy: the lies and hoops he jumped through to fuck who knows who when and were monumental. And he chose every single time to do it.

    He chose to betray me over and over. Then he bailed on his family. And now he hardly gives me a dime. Total fuckwit.

    Abuse offers little to no explanation and justifies absolutely none of it.

  • I think the sexuality change from what is expected while (supposedly) committed in a relationship makes the betrayal more complicated. Just as shocking if a gay married couple found out their spouse was cheating not with the expected same sex but someone or a multitude of opposite sex partners when they both entered the relationship with the understanding of eachothers professed sexuality. So there is a betrayal of the cheating itself which comes with a multitude of lies and deception but compounded by a false front fascade of their very sexuality itself–their core make up of attraction. Surely this adds to the confusion of having no idea who this person is or was and the pain of trying to understand it.

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