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The Benevolent Other Woman

OW_walkAn alert chump sent me A Letter To The Woman Whose Man Cheated On Her With Me. The OW is “Aria.” The chump girlfriend is “Candy.”

I think these names have to be made up. Aria? Seriously? You’re an operatic solo full of passion and meaning and the chump is some frivolous confection? A Mars bar? A jellybean?

Anyway, I digress. The letter is another example of this peculiar phenomenon of OW feigning benevolence to the chump. I think the kids call this “concern trolling.”

Anyone get this brand of Schmoopie? Where they blow the whistle on the affair for the stated purpose of helping you know the Real Truth.

Of course, they were fine with you not knowing the truth while they were fucking your boyfriend, but now that they’ve tired of the pick me dance, and the boyfriend remains content with cake, they find their newfound zeal for unvarnished honesty and the welfare of the chump.

Yeah, whatevers.

Look, I’m all for OW telling the chump. Don’t get me wrong. But they need to check their cloak of self righteousness at the door. A simple “I’ve been fucking your partner and I’m sorry” will suffice. The very last thing a chump needs on her D-Day is an shovel full of How Great Thou Art from the OW. Schmoops — you’re not morally superior, okay? And we’re not all in this together as fellow chumps. You CHOSE this shit.

Men — I don’t know any cases of Other Men who do this crap. It seems to be some gender division on this. Theorize amongst yourselves. (Men are precious kibble resources! We must compete for them!) OM seem to be more straightforward sleaze bags. They just fuck around and don’t think too deeply about it. Thank God for small mercies.

Anyway back to Aria. Her letter begins with “I’m deeply sorry” and then goes on to turn that sentiment on its ear.

“I am writing this because I am feeling guilty and maybe a little bit spiteful.”

Aria, a little primer on apologies — saying “you’re sorry” isn’t done out of spite. It’s done out of recognizing that you’ve been shitty.  You only got one sentence in before you made this All About You.

“I’ve plead with him to tell you the truth.”

Of course you have. You’re sick to death of the pick me dance. PICK ME! you motherfucker! ME!!!! Eliminate the competition for once and for all.

“I’m livid at the way he’s handling things.”

Naturally. He’s still eating cake. Is it just beginning to dawn on you how this works?

“These past few months I’ve seen a side of him I never knew existed. If I could only tell you the constant number of ways I’ve bent over backwards to try and keep our friendship afloat when you were with him and how I’ve tried pleasing him more recently when we’ve been an item.”

Aria, you knew this side of him existed the minute you learned he had another girlfriend. What you didn’t know was that the pick me dance is rigged. You’re not going to win it because it’s not winnable. Cake must be maintained.

I’m sure the chump really appreciates All You Did for her boyfriend. Seriously, OW — WTF?

“We’re too good for him.”

I love it when OW speak in the royal We. Oh, NOW it’s the universal sisterhood! Now we’re in this together! Now it’s you and me against him!

It’s not that you’re wrong about that — the gum on your shoe is too good for that guy. But you don’t get to speak for the chump and feign sisterhood with her. You fucked her boyfriend.

I can’t stop thinking about the line in the Great Gatsby when Daisy Buchanan claims she wants her daughter to be a “beautiful little fool.” Well, I hope one day you learn the truth. I would hate for you to be a beautiful little fool.

And the insufferable literary reference. (My OW used to sign her letters “Samuel Clemens.” Way to ruin Mark Twain for me.) I’m sure the chump is just frightfully intimidated that you’ve read F. Scott Fitzgerald. God, how could a girl named “Candy” ever compete with such erudition?

Aria — the only fool here is you. Chumps are trusting souls who got played. You told her your “truth,” now fuck off.

This one ran eons ago. Hey don’t forget to submit your Valentine’s poems!

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  • This is so much like the OW my husband had a sexual/emotional relationship with. After D-day and she got the boot, she was self righteous and blamed me for him dumping her. I guess she invested 6.5 years of the “pick me” dance so wasn’t willing to give him up without a fight. She told me that I was a horrible person with no morals, self respect or integrity, while she was proud of having all that!!! Why?? Because she was the only one who truely loved him and understood him, I was the wicked wife who had neglected him and “used” him to maintain a lifestyle!! By the way, she never met me and only knew me through him. She was also married with two kids. She was having sexual relationships with several men while f**king my husband. She sent me numerous photos of them having sex (classy) and emailed me a list of other women he had had sex with before her (yep, serial cheater). She did everything in her power to make me divorce his pathetic ass so he would come running back to her. She was vicious, cruel and pathetic towards me. She was a true bunny boiler! I never replied to any of her self righteous emails, and there were plenty. Instead I took all the evidence and presented this to the court. I got a two year restraining order on her. I also sent all her “evidence” to her husband (he had no idea, just like me! Yep, two chumps!!) He has since divorced her. I have, luckily, not heard from her for over 3 years. I could go on and on about this despicable person, but all I can say is that my husband and her, deserved each other. Both disgraceful examples of the human race.

    • Apart from not having a modicum of self-awareness it looks like the OW didn’t have 2 brain cells to rub together either – I mean, talk about just handing you the weapon to shoot you husband (and her with)!

    • Lillian – this “She told me that I was a horrible person with no morals, self respect or integrity, while she was proud of having all that!!! Why?? Because she was the only one who truly loved him and understood him, I was the wicked wife who had neglected him and “used” him to maintain a lifestyle!! By the way, she never met me and only knew me through him.” Almost verbatim!!! She also shared text, pics, etc. I had over a 100 pages of proof during my divorce. Unfortunately I am in a no-fault state that believes in 50/50 custody. I am not opposed to that because I believe kids should have both parents. That said, she is living with them against the divorce decree. Shit sandwich! Told me that she wanted my life. Wow! Doesn’t matter! The courts only wanna know if the kids are in danger. We all have dealt with the same ole same ole here. Sad!!!

      • Bunny boilers for sure. Sorry for all of you…, but I’m happy you’re not with your husbands any more. If they choose someone as despicable as these women, then they deserve exactly what they pursued. Karma is living with your bad decisions.

    • The OW in my case was the same, accused me of being ‘privileged af’ and using hubby to fund a lifestyle while she was the only one who appreciated him. I’d just had our first child and she mocked my anxiety/depression as weakness. When she was dumped she wrote that we weRe assholes that had manipulated and tricked her for our own amusement and then went on one of those passive aggressive Facebook jags where she’d lamented getting caught up in another couple’s ‘drama’. Uh, I had a new baby and was a little bit too busy to know let alone manipulate anything. Absolutely crazy

  • I did not find out about my ex’s affair from Skankella. I found out on my own. But, her daughter called me and told me how long it was going on. That my ex filed for divorce. She even knew the date he filed. This girl knew about my trouble with menapause. Our sex life. She told me how my ex said I was lazy and did nothing around the house. Of course my ex denied everything.
    A ran into some family awhile back. And they told me that Skankella told them that I was a Nut job. That the only reason my ex stayed with me was that he was afraid I would kill him or myself. She told them she only went out with him because he needed a friend. Yea ok they believe that. The mind of the other women

    • Omg! I later learned that XH told his fuck buddies that he “only stayed with wife because I’d be suicidal if he left.” Wrong! I’m so much happier now that I’m divorced, quit the marriage police force, and live a life free of his malignant narcissist/sociopath ass.

      • I got this too, but to my face. XW said we couldn’t go to marriage counseling because she would have to be honest, and if she were honest “it would destroy you”. So somehow XW twisted refusing marriage counseling into an act of generosity on her part.

        • To be fair, refusing marriage counselling is an act of generosity I wish I’d been offered. If I hadn’t done that mindfuckery I might have left instead. Wish I had. 7 years of D Days and PM dancing destroyed me. The counselling part was the worst. Endorsed triangulation and gaslighting. It’s truly toxic shit.

          • Except XW’s argument wasn’t “I don’t want to hurt you”, but rather “you’re not strong enough to handle the truth, so I’m not going to allow you to have it”. It was condescending and paternalistic, rather than generous. I’ll grant that the end result was the same, though – and now that I’ve read other people’s stories in CN, I’m relieved that I was spared the experience.

      • This is a theme!! When I met my XH, he told me he and his previous long-term GF had stayed together so long because he was afraid if he broke up with her she’d kill herself. I was only 18 when we met, so I thought it was a really noble thing he had done. Omg if only I knew then what I know now……..what a narcissist!!!

    • ^^^^^^ This hit a nerve! The “they’ll commit suicide” excuse!

      Although I really don’t know whether ex-fuckwit told the OW this, she wrote to a Switzerland friend (after he dumped her & we were in faux reconciliation) that I “forced” him to dump her and stay with me by threatening suicide:

      “Which means that Fuckwit is bound to her for as long as she’s alive and wants him. Fuckwit is no longer making a decision. The decision has been forced up on him, for weal or for woe. Which means that he has to take what ever stimuli come his way and twist them towards making himself believe he’s on the best possible path. For as long as Chchchchump lives and wants him, he’s committed. ”

      And after that she told the Switzer-friend that she was waiting for me to die so he would come back to her. And began relentlessly harassing him. (By then we were done, but it was kind of delicious karma that he had to get an order of protection against her because she REALLY harassed him after I was gone and he DIDN’T go back to her.

      • Wow, I just read that and thought, she’s a lunatic. For believing him first of all, knowing first hand how capable of lying he is, and then secondly that he’s so put upon.

        Honestly, that line of thinking is how those ID channel stories start.

        Your sick bastard ex probably thought of all that, btw.

    • Oh yeah, all that and can’t forget my alleged mental illness and for someone who had maybe 3 alcoholic beverages a year I was a raging alcoholic. The lies are laughable to those that know us but when another side of the story isn’t presented people believe…..and show their sympathies. I mean even if I was a suicidal, mentally ill, alcoholic why would you have sex with him? How does all this equal sex with him? I’m not really looking for an answer, that would be untangling the skein. I have long accepted I can’t control other people and that there will be a number of folks who meet me and think the worst until they get to know me. I also accepted there are 7.5 billion people in the world so he can’t convince them all.

    • My husband got a ROYAL ass-beating from the OW’a husband AND the OW a few years ago. Figure that one out. I laughed my ass off in between tears that he had in fact, cheated on me. Up until then he had denied the affair.

      Nevertheless my chunky self stayed thinking he had “learned his lesson.” Then he left me for a 25 year old he supervises last year. I swear at that moment I realized that he was not only a cheater, he was obviously very dangerously stupid and could end up getting me hurt too. Shades of the Buttifuco case. Sure did help with the moving on thing.

      • My nearl 50 year old cheater had his affair with the married 29year old howorker he supervised. Difference in my case is her husband knew because the were in a polyamory marriage. Not only did OW husband know, he supported my husband buy giving him more modern (young) dressing advice, let them screw in their house during the day while their 2 year old son was there.

        The final cherry on the shite sundae for mr: the three of them, cheater, OW, and OW hubby all sat together in a church at Chris time listening to a choir. I was at home that night with OUR son, but I’m apparently not a MILF, just a regular mom.

        NO ONE TOLD ME. Her husband didn’t say a word, no one at cheaters work told me. No one had any moral integrity to say anything to the wife. The stupid stupid wife.

        • Disgusting! Hardly anyone is willing to tell on cheaters. Everyone at my cheater’s work knew, including the boss. They didn’t even try to hide it at work.
          But nobody said anything about it.
          It was so blatant and went on for so long that one out of the loop co-worker even thought they were married until he happened to mention it and the others filled him in. He was mortified and actually apologized to my cheater for bringing it up. WTF? Apparently, not one person gave a rat’s ass about their spouses or about the risk they were causing. They both had a high security clearance so they were vulnerable to being blackmailed. They handled the kind of sensitive gov’t info that terrorists would love to have. Management, astoundingly, ignored this.
          It’s incredible how amoral most people are.

          • Same here. My cheater XH and ho-worker were blatantly having an affair where they both worked and everyone in both of their departments knew it. EVERYONE knew it before I did. I actually found emails where some of cheaterpant’s employees congratulated him and told her ‘what a great pair they made!’ WTF?? He was MARRIED to me. His super duper religious boss looked the other way and actually gave the slut puppet a reference for a new job, although she had never worked under him. Her boss hated her.

            Yep. Everyone acted like it was no big deal. I did, however see one email from an employee telling him to cool it because everyone knew they were having an affair…it was soooooo obvious. Neither one of them did a thing to hide it. Holding hands and kissing in public. Cheater pants let me catch him at it because he was too big of a coward to tell me. Just keep fucking up until the chump catches you red handed. Don’t worry though, folks I got even with him. *sly smile*

    • My husband got a ROYAL ass-beating from the OW’a husband AND the OW a few years ago. Figure that one out. I laughed my ass off in between tears that he had in fact, cheated on me. Up until then he had denied the affair.

      Nevertheless my chunk self stayed thinking he had “learned his lesson.” Then he left me for a 25 year old he supervises last year. I swear at that moment I realized that he was not only a cheater, he was obviously very dangerously stupid and could end up getting me hurt too. Shades of the Buttifuco case. Sure did help with the moving on thing.

    • My husband got a ROYAL ass-beating from the OW’a husband AND the OW a few years ago. Figure that one out. I laughed my ass off in between tears that he had in fact, cheated on me. Up until then he had denied the affair.

      Nevertheless self stayed thinking he had “learned his lesson.” Then he left me for a 25 year old he supervises last year. I swear at that moment I realized that he was not only a cheater, he was obviously very dangerously stupid and could end up getting me hurt too. Shades of the Buttifuco case. Sure did help with the moving on thing.

    • There’s a very, very, real compulsion to “act” on this, as a man. Although I was able to largely keep the temptations at bay, let’s just say it was extremely hard.

      • Traveling….there was a REAL compulsion for me to ‘act’ on it too. Suffice to say after that horrific abuse, I now know what is in a murderer’s mind.

  • Affair partners all have a level of mental fuckedupness that I dont think I can ever understand. Not that I care to, especially since I dont have to deal with the howorker anymore. When FW left me in the initial stages of my pregnancy, I had my badass moment. He told me he had left me and then just went to work. Didnt take any of his stuff. His plan was to come into my home while I was asleep to get his things. Fuck no. I threw his basic clothes into a garbage bag. I drove to his job at a smoke shop to throw the bag at him and flip him off. She was there too, so I flipped her off as well. Later on, she tried to appeal to me that she meant no harm and “missed our friendship”. I forwarded his message to me saying how she was so bad in bed and never worth everything he lost. I have blocked them both now. It really is for the best, delusional cesspools the whole lot of them.

  • My and kids dad, split up nearly 7 years ago, he doesn’t live near me, but she still hangs around.
    Years ago she would stand outside my house, same year stand across the road.
    Whilst living with him, 8 or 9 years ago, she would scream, across the road, how do I know its her, she sounds like a man.
    Ex expected me to argue with her, I think she wanted to make a fool of me. More like making a fool of herself.

  • My ex told OW all kinds of horrible lies about me. And she believed them.

    She emailed me and said that she was only trying to help my ex, as he was so distraught over his friend’s death. They were simply friends she said. Meanwhile I found her emails to him in which they were planning where they were going to go on their honeymoon. We were married 26 years at that point in time.

      • Yes, SchmooperFreak had a beautiful Hawaiian wedding all planned. Unfortunately, it went a bit tits up for her. 11 days after I kicked him out, he came crawling back claiming he’d made the worst mistake of his life. And he sure was right about that. She told colleagues (they worked together) that I beat him up so badly he was terrified and brutalised into coming back (she had and still never has met me, I’m around 55kg and he’s around 93kg, so yeah, that figures). Then began a campaign of texts, emails, disgusting parcels to my work and actual letters to my board members (her husband had an affair…fire her!)This is 15 years ago, and she’s still stalking me on social media, making derogatory comments etc. Just like a jilted teenager, bless her 65 year-old heart.

          • Funny thing is, she’s reinvented herself as a ‘healing energy therapist’ (she used to be a PA). Someone really needs to check their own chakras.

            • YES, a dear friend of mine had a very abusive husband, she ended up in the psych hospital for 3 months due to him, then her health deteriorated badly and she died of cancer at 53. He went on to be a LIFE COACH

              • I’m so sorry about your friend. These people are not only call-the-men-in-white-coats-crazy but bloody dangerous to boot.

  • When I discovered my ex with the Owhore at her home she (& him) said disgusting sexual things that they do together while I just stood there in the midnight air in shock. I truly believe that the OW was mentally deranged to treat anyone like that not even knowing me.
    He slandered me for years before I knew about her.
    Unfortunately for her she passed away not long ago so I feel Karma showed up. He quickly found another woman’s home to move into so he’s still content from what my son tells me.
    My life is my own now without the toxic hologram of a husband. Maybe some day he’ll feel the pain that I felt but I doubt it because he has no soul. ????

    • You are correct. He will not feel the pain because he has no soul. I hope you don’t take as long as I did to come to the conclusion that, without a doubt, he did you the biggest favor by revealing who he really is and that you did the right thing by divorcing him. You could have been tap dancing till you died trying to make him love you. Now you have a chance to realize how free you are without him taking up space in your life.

  • The OG told me she was just trying to do the right thing by telling me. The truth was he wasn’t doing what she wanted and tried to end it. This was her way of getting back at him. She threatened and threatened and then followed through. Why must they shed the light on how good they are? It didn’t last long. She eventually began telling me how I made him feel like shit and all he did was for the kids and not me. Awww. Poor guy. He had a loyal wife who stayed at home and raised his children, tended to everything for him while he worked away leading a double life with this girl.
    I am confident in knowing that he had NO reason to cheat on me. It wasn’t about me. I gave 110% and that wasn’t enough. So nothing the OG tells me is real. She only knows the lies she is told and that she needs to feel better about her poor choices.

    • Apparently the skank was quite upset when I filed for divorce (the first time) because the dick chose to stay married to me and dumped her. That was when she wrote me her letter about everything they did for 11 years and how she was only concerned for me because ‘in order for me to move on’ I needed full disclosure which the dick wouldn’t provide. Well now they’re married to each other. Like you, I am confident in knowing that I wasn’t the cause of all he did. I also gave 110%. Now let her keep him and revel in him. He’s not my problem and I thank God for that.

      • What a happy marriage that must be:)

        She was with him for 11 years, got dumped/discarded at least one time you know of and now she finally has him cause you didn’t want him.

  • I think my ex’s OW was too chicken shit to ever notify me. Not because I’d do anything to her-but a woman who is sneaking around on her husband with 3 other married men has to be a coward.

    Oh-and she was pregnant at the time. Once I found out about that years later-I somehow lost even more respect for my ex-dropping from zero to negative one billion.

    He did insult me further by telling me that SHE actually helped ME by helping HIM understand why I needed to be on Lexapro (he wanted me to stop taking it because he said it was ruining my sex drive).

    OW with a heart of gold. Oldest story in the book….if that’s the type of book you want to read ????????????.

    Ladies and Gentleman-of we are here with Chump Nation-WE ARE MIGHTY!!!!

    • My ex told our young boys the OW was “Pure of Heart” ?!? Yes. He told his own children that the skank that was partly responsible for destroying their family, who was knowingly and happily fucking a married man and was even happier when he abadoned them, was “pure of heart”. They truely suck!

  • My ex’s fuck buddy was the 24 yr old suicidal “I’ll kill myself and ruin your job if your not with me” nanny. She was a girl that I mentored, gave her food, clothes, shelter, etc. and she was more than willing to keep it all behind my back so he could maintain cake. When I figured it out and shit hit the fan that’s when she insisted She win the pick me dance and started with the suicidal threats….she won in the long run (obviously) after a long pick me dance. I threw a big ass wrench in it though when I sent her all the screen shots of his text, all of his voicemails, emails, etc. of all the crap he said about her and how he professed his love for me.????????????. He can’t stand confrontation so I’m sure walking on eggshells with suicidal smoochie is a blast for him now! And, with all her insecurities I’m sure she will forever have doubt lingering in her mind and will come up at the worst times….it did with her other boyfriend. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Take that bitches!

  • There are all types of OW. Since I was unfortunate enough to marry two cheaters before I fixed my picker, I actually saw different types. I know my ex’s lied to me during the love bombing stage, because I was always very clear about what I wanted from marriage, and monogamy was one of the things. In hindsight, I feel that my moral base, and useful behaviors were the reason I was chosen for the role of wife. Marriage meant nothing to my ex’s as a moral way to live. They were all about appearances, and the comforts and convenience of being married.

    I think some OW just want to take what belongs to another. It empowers them, and makes them feel they are desirable and superior sexually because they can take another woman’s man. The attention is fun for them. Some OW, especially at work, do it to gain privileges and power at work. Some OW want sex with an unavailable man, so that their lives are not disturbed in other ways. It is a secret fling, all the benefits of being a girlfriend with none of the work of being married, or having a man tell them what they can and cannot do.

    Some OW are fooled and lied to from the beginning, and then they discover he is married. They want to believe the lies, because love bombing feels great, and they are invested and want what they thought they were going to get in a marriage. If they can demonize you, and forgive him for not being able to stop himself from lying because he wanted her so much, they can justify their relationship as “true love”, it was “meant to be.” This is a fatal mistake, because they never think he will do it to them, and they are always wrong. This is a house built on sand relationship. Any sort of trouble can cause it to fall apart.

    I am sure there are other types and variations, but those who try to justify it to you are never trying to help you. They are trying to convince themselves they were right to do what they did, or beat you down so they can “win”. It is part of the delusional process, and the death of the dream is painful for everyone. Only time and distance, and setting boundaries and living an authentic life will allow you to heal. You get to MEH by moving forward one step at a time, you will know when you have arrived. You no longer desire to be with someone who causes chaos and hurt in your life, and you have learned you are capable of taking care of yourself. It’s a good place to be.

      • Portia and All.

        I’m going to be very gentle about how I write this–because I was chumped and I also was the victim of a liar when I was very young and I stayed a few months after finding out he was married.

        I agree with what you’re saying. There are many different types of OW and their justifications for what they do and why. The gambit runs from mentally ill to low self esteem to evil to just plain stupid. Willfullness to be in a relationship with a married person does not automatically equate to any of those reasons.

        Now–let’s replace a few words and see how this reads.

        Portia says: ” Some SPOUSES are fooled and lied to from the beginning, and then they discover he is CHEATING. They want to believe the lies, because love bombing feels great, and they are invested and want what they thought they were going to get in a marriage. If they can demonize THE OP, and forgive CHEATER for not being able to stop himself from lying because he wanted her so much, they can justify the MARRIAGE as “true love”, it was “meant to be.” This is a fatal mistake, because THE CHUMP refuses to think he will do it to them AGAIN, and they are always wrong. This is a house built on sand relationship. Any sort of trouble can cause it to fall apart.”

        This is how I saw my own marriage—where I was demonizing the OW, delusional in my thinking that if I just “win” that this OW will go away and everything will be normal again, that if I forgive my cheater then we can work it out “if only the OW would go away”, that he would not “do it again” if I forgave and got rid of THIS OW.

        I read the stories here all the time about DDays 1-17 in various scenarios—and nobody stops and says—-you, CHUMP, are the delusional one here. YOU, chump, are harming your kids by white knuckling this man/woman into staying with you because YOU chump, are not dealing with the reality of the situation.

        THIS WAS ME. On both sides. When I found out that asshole was married—I didn’t dump him right away. Because love bombing felt good. Because lies that tell me what I want to hear—feel better than truths that hurt.

        The focus must now and always be—-ON THE CHEATER. Not the OW. Not the OM. Not the parents or the cousins or the friends. The choice to cheat was ON THE CHEATER.

        Isn’t it just as delusional of a CHUMP to hang onto a cheater as it is for an OP to do it?

        • No. The chump was promised by the cheater that they would be monogomous and together for the rest of their lives. Assuming a traditional wedding took place. So they have the social standing and length of a legitmate relationship to justify why they stay. And sunk codts and children which makes much more sense why they try maintain the relationships.

          Other women (before you found out you were not an other woman but a chump) know they are cheating and should leave the moment they know. No kids, no sunk costs and no relationship legitimised by the state.

          • Of course I blame my cheating exhusband the MOST but I also blame the assholes that cheat with them. As far as I’m concerned the cheater robbed the bank and the OW drove the getaway car. They BOTH are guilty as hell.

        • Sorry Name Withheld. You didn’t take wedding vows as an affair accomplice. You are complicit in abuse of the spouse as an affair accomplice. It is not the same.


          An affair i is actually a relationship of THREE because an affair requires “straight man” in the dark.

          Your “logic” above illustrates the point Chump Lady is making today.

          Thanks for validating her.

          • Further, when I was very young and on the two occasions I found out the man I was on a date with was married, I told them both to get lost.

            Eighteen is plenty old enough to know right from wrong and make choices that don’t hurt people.

        • I don’t equate being chumped as a spouse with being chumped as an unknowing OW, because the cheater was actually single when he chose to marry the chumped spouse. Marriage involves vows and standing up before family and friends, and often children, and joint ownership of material things and debts, and having to deal with lawyers and courts and child custody and support. There is delusional behavior that follows when you discover you have been cheated on, whether you are married or not. But the spouse was lied to and had no reason to believe she was chosen because she was useful when she was told she was loved and he wanted to go through life with her. She may have been love bombed, she may have spackled, it might take her awhile to figure out all the lies he told, but the marriage is an official legal act that has to be dissolved. If the OW finds out he is married and has lied to her, that is her opportunity to get the hell out of dodge. If she chooses to go forward, knowing he is married, then she has a different type of delusion than the wife.

          Betrayal is betrayal, and I certainly blame the cheater in all cases, and I understand pain is pain whether you are married or not, but being married is a special category of being chumped. We all deal with finding out and deciding what to do about it in different way, but it is a messier separation.

        • NameWithheld –

          Nope. Once someone knows the other party is married, they have the perfect opportunity to demonstrate their character and drop them like a hot rock. You may have been played for a fool, but you were not Chumped like a spouse.

          Stick around and you get the censure and condemnation you deserve for being a party to it.

          “The true test of a man’s character is what he does when no one is watching.”
          ― John Wooden

          Women too.

        • Wow. I love it when someone like Name Withheld comes here and “gently” tells all of Chump Nation that we’re doing it all wrong. ???? Partners who, in the throes of pain from DDay, try to cling to the life and family that they rightfully and innocently believed both partners were equally committed to, are in no way equivalent to a delusional AP trying to cling to a cheater. There is no shame in that initial instinct to preserve the relationship. And there is no shame in feeling righteous anger against the cheater AND the AP(s) AND the Switzerland friends AND anyone else who enables the abuse. There is enough blame and anger to go around and all that emotion is often puts us on the path to leaving a cheater and gaining a life.

    • “I think some OW just want to take what belongs to another. It empowers them, and makes them feel they are desirable and superior sexually because they can take another woman’s man. The attention is fun for them.” So true.
      It has been my experience these particular OW tend to have borderline personality disorders and have major “Daddy” issues. If they “win” and the cheaters leave their wives and families for these disordered individuals, it is not exactly a fairy tale ending. The OW will always need chaos and drama, so it could be they are jealous and cling for dear life, grow bored and find another man or just create an insane, miserable home life. Just recently I found out that one of our technicians’ has an OWife. I’ve known him for 6 years, knew he was married, to one bat shit crazy woman that I have had a few unpleasant dealings (that is another story) but what I didn’t know is that he was married previously and left his wife for this woman. He also disclosed to me he thinks she is bi-polar but won’t get help. So his home life is hell and he has had numerous health issues I believe are caused by a chaotic home life. I used to feel sorry for him till I found out how their relationship started… I think he reaped what he sowed.

      • I just love a story with a happy ending. Hope his ex is living in the land of meh. And gets to enjoy a little popcorn while seeing glimpses of his shit show from afar (if she even cares to do so)!

        • I don’t know his ex but I am sure she is happy as he some severe health issues and they are only getting worse. He’s very good at his work and is a hard worker but at the same time he is a big baby and doesn’t like to deal with everyday details such as insurance, etc. I’d say he is a momma’s boy and looks to women as caretakers.

          I am sure though she has some outrageous stories about OWife. This OWife is completely bananas.

      • The “daddy issues” is right on! I asked my STBX if she had daddy issues and his reply was, “No, but she has a stepdad.” *eyeroll*
        Everything you said; drama, chaos, belief she is sexually superior, in control……….exact! Everything I know is from social media-hers. He picked a smart one.

      • The bi-polar label.. You know where I heard that? From a sociopathic boss, discussing his past amorous life (at work!). My take on that is the poor woman was triggered by his infidelity.
        The more important question I would ask is: who talks like that about their spouse?

        • A person who is constructing a smear campaign (a narcissist), that’s who speaks about their spouse like that.

          The “bi-polar” tag is a variant on the ever useful “bitch be crazy” tag which many sociopaths use to discredit an unsuspecting spouse, so when they finally leave their spouse, the “reason” seems, well, reasonable. Image Management 101.

    • Totally agree with you. The asshole found another chump, love bombed her, told her things were awful with me and I’d be moving out as soon as he could find another place for me (we were not married, I had just moved in with him 2 months prior after 8.5 years together). I did move out when I found out they’d been texting, and I refused to stay with him (like I did when I found out about the prior OW who I justified because it was ONLY an emotional affair, although I doubt very much that it was, now).

      After moving out I tried going NC but he would show up at my apartment and my work, leave me notes, say he wanted to get married- serious love bombing. I finally gave in and agreed to couples counseling but we all know how that goes. Finally the work I was doing on myself gave me enough courage to see through all the BS, and I called him out on the fact he was still seeing her and blocked him. So of course he puts a note under my door with all sorts of lying, claiming he wasn’t seeing her. I was so ready to be DONE so I found her email address and sent her a photo of the note. She was pissed! She realized she’d been chumped, just like me. I suppose in a way, to her I was the OW. All along he’d been telling her they were in a committed relationship and she had no clue he was trying to get me back. She dumped his ass then and there and since we’ve become friends. She BELIEVED his lying bullshit!!! And since he knew how to pick only the finest of chumps, she stayed with him even though he kept hurting her and making her feel horrible about herself. Now we are both getting our lives back on track, learning to love ourselves, and will NEVER EVER be chumps again.

  • After Dday and then GTFO day I was contacted by an OW behind door #2. She was outraged that XH had broken up with her to pursue young golddigging whore OW and XH told her he was breaking up to re-commit to me. I was completely in the dark about any of these horrors until Dday.

    Anyhoo…. the old OW wanted me to help her destroy him. She also said she wanted to help me raise my daughters, one of whom she had been stalking on IG. Creepy boiler bunny! These women are fucked up in the head, by definition!

    • Contacted by the OW 8 months after she moved into my former home and was bailing as she finally saw through XAss’s lies. She denies that she had become involved WAY before I walked out, but we both know she’s full of shit. She also initially denied the abusive behaviors XAss pulls. I didn’t really want to have any kind of contact with her, but at the time I was going through the custody battle and if she had any ammo I could use, I wanted it. She would tell me that she wanted to destroy XAss, but she wouldn’t give me anything I could take to court. I think she just wanted me to cause chaos in XAss’s life. What she failed to realize is that he doesn’t need any help in creating chaos and I have no intention of being involved in his shit storm of a life in any way, ever again, even peripherally.

      One positive about communicating with the AP was that after a few months she started to validate all the crazy/bad behaviors. It was nice to get confirmation that it wasn’t all in my head and that he did exactly to her what he did to me.

  • Oh, the “sorry not sorry” apology. Not quite the same thing but one of these turned up from our OW the other day (I say our because it involves one of my sons). I got some of it off my chest writing poetry the other day but here’s the story. After a year and a half of trying to be around Schmoopie to please his dad, my older son decided he had had enough and just didn’t want to be around her anymore because it hurts too much. This did not go over well with my ex. It isn’t actually personal, he doesn’t want to be interact with my boyfriend anymore either and I didn’t even meet him until after the divorce was final. For my son’s sake I have been supportive of his going to the therapist in order to help him grieve the end of his parents’ marriage and, eventually, get to the point where he can be around both significant others (yes even Schmoopie) so he can enjoy spending time with his parents (yes even his Dad). I am not in rush, however, as I know healing takes time. I am lucky in that my boyfriend is being very patient about all of this and knows it isn’t personal

    Schmoopie, however, is taking this all very personally and putting a lot of pressure on Ex to control his son’s behavior. Ex decided to stage an “intervention” (actually Schmoopies idea I eventually learned) by dragging his son to a family meeting with her, my son’s younger brother (the go along to get along type) and her daughter who is my older son’s age. During this meeting Schmoopie demanded that he tell her why he doesn’t like her. My son tried to tell her it wasn’t personal, it just hurt to be around her. She wouldn’t accept that, however, and kept demanding “reasons”. My son felt cornered and ganged up on and eventually blurted out “you’re not funny, you make up facts, and I would rather be around terrorists than you”. Supposedly the conversation improved after that and everyone buy my son, and evidently Schmoopie, thought progress was made after that. The next day, however, my phone started blowing up with long texts from Schmoopie that included me, my ex, both my sons and her daughter. She was mostly defending herself against his statements, especially the one about the terrorists and why she isn’t as bad as a terrorist, although she also seemed pretty put out over having been accused of being “not funny” too.

    Anyway, somewhere in the midst of this rant was an apology that went as follows: “I am very sorry for the pain I have caused you and your mother and brother and sister. My relationship with your father was deceitful, hurtful and wrong. And as I’ve said, a bell cannot be un-run. I can never undo what I did and I’m sorry about that”

    This of course was followed up with a few buts and “I think you’ve gone too far and it would be good of you to take a step back and reconsider your justifications and approach. You seem determined through sheer will to punish me and it’s disproportionate and unfair. I do not deserve to be treated the way you treat me. I do not deserve to be compared as less worthy than a terrorist”

    I don’t really want my son calling anyone a terrorist, but he was put on the spot, she was demanding a response and he gave her one because she wouldn’t listen when he tried to tell her what he was really feeling. And as for her apology, it came across to me as “I said I’m sorry so forgive me damn it”. A true apology doesn’t demand forgiveness, you’re just sorry and don’t expect anything in return.

    • The particular pain that this OW is causing your son makes my blood boil! Thank God your son has a therapist because this sort of thing is devastating to kids – imagine having 2 adults and 2 other kids pressuring you to say things you don’t mean. I hope he knows he has every right to be angry, to have opinions about people, to not like certain people, to have boundaries. The cruelty of your ex and the OW!
      And her apology is just words, no actions to back it up. A better apology would be “I am sorry for the pain I caused you, it was hurtful and wrong. I understand why you would prefer not to have a relationship with me and why you are angry. I will make sure to give you your space because you have done nothing wrong and I have.” Can you imagine? No, they are not capable of any sort of reality based reflection.

      • Meanwhile ex was lamenting that “her feelings were really hurt”. Well boo hoo. She didn’t think of my sons feelings when she chose to fuck his dad. Neither did my ex when he chose to fuck her. Apparently she was yelling at him too when writing her rant “Why am I the one writing this? Why aren’t you defending me?”. That must be when he chimed into the chat with “This isn’t easy for anyone, but Schmoopie’s right that your punishment of her needs to stop” Why are her feelings so much more important than anyone else’s?

        I do feel bad for my boyfriend though. My son doesn’t treat him very well either and he really hasn’t done anything wrong except take a liking to me several months after the divorce was final. At least he hasn’t called my boyfriend a “terrorist” because my boyfriend leaves him alone. My son did say that he prefers his personality to Schmoopie’s and hopes to be able to sit and have a meal with him present again someday before he goes to college next fall. He also said he would be willing to have a conversation with him and his therapist and me in the room, but please on siblings. I still can’t believe that ex tried to use other kids to put pressure on him. How humiliating. No wonder he lashed out.

          • Be very very careful when dealing with the emotions of children/young people. My daughter, now 31, suffered damage to the vagus nerve during adolescence by verbal/emotional abuse from stepfather/X. The damage is irreparable and she suffers from gastric problems and anxiety and is unable to work in a public job.

              • I am curious about this too.

                I’m thinking of the brain scans promoted by Dr. Daniel Amen on PBS here in the U.S.The scans diagnose exactly what kind of depression,anxiety, or brain trauma one suffers from. It sounds logical but I don’t believe most insurance companies reimburse the thousands of dollars his scans and consultations cost. Plus what if he and his associates diagnose one with a certain condition and specific medications but one’s insurer says “No we don’t agree” ? Now the person has to pay out of pocket for the drugs even though one has insurance ?

                Doctors use blood tests, mri, ekg, and xrays to diagnose other medical conditions but it seems like a a game of “Eeny Meeny Miny Moe” for psychotropic medication.

                I know this is little off topic but I’m thinking of some people I know who have gotten lost in a maze with finding the right meds.

        • I could totally see my ex picking his OW over them.

          Heck-when he needed to bring our daughter to school one night at 7 for her to watch her friends’ choir concert-he was LATE because he was kissing the OW’s dad’s ass!

          My daughter-who was 14 when this happened last May-yelled at him when she called to see why he was late. She told him not to bother because she didn’t want to walk into the small venue and disturb the concert because he couldn’t get her there in time.

          When she told me-I said I was sorry that happened. She said, “Mom-now I know the crap you’ve been putting up with for years!!! Good for you for leaving!!!!”

          When I asked him why he was late the next day-he said he was going to get her and that she would have been late but that was okay and she refused. Then he gushed about how the OW’s father gave him a HUG.

          Glad you valued a hug from some stranger over your daughter, asshole…..

    • A true sorry involves an apology followed by affirmative action. Instead, she said sorry and and declared how she wanted a grieving child to behave towards her. She’s supposed to have worked out the action that was needed. She could have asked your son if there was something that he enjoyed that they could all do together and she could have organised and paid for it as way of a real apology; something that could have them the chance to get to know each other better by doing rather than an intervention. An apology needs to be followed by positive action by the person making the apology. Typical Narc – she made the apology about her and her needs.

      • I don’t care what anyone says, schmoopies are NEVER, EVER sorry. They are just as entitled and narcissist as the spouses they screw. The slut puppet in my case knew my husband was married and had met me. Friends that worked with her told me that she was absolutely giddy with delight and acted all coy about fucking a married man. She won the sparkly turd!! He also cheats on her now. It’s mind boggling that they think they are so special. You lose them how you got them. I think she knows better than to issue me any kind of apology because I would personally shove it up her ass.

        • I completely agree with this! I’ve been hit on by married men well before I was a chump. It is absolutely disgusting and not a bit flattering! Ewww, makes my skin crawl… even if they were intelligent, good-looking, funny, I could never respect them again after that.

    • Personally I can’t stand a non-apology apology, somebody who apologizes for my reaction to their f*cked up, disordered behavior and not their behavior. “I’m sorry if I offended you, blah, blah,blah…” Verbal diarrhea.

      And guess what ? A knowing OW/OM is an annihilator of a family unit, a terrorist of sorts.

  • Before we met, my ex Mme YogaPants was an OW. I recall her telling me how she had called the unknowing chump to gloat about fucking her husband.

    Yeah – I should have run then.

    She also had a trophy box where she kept mementos of that time. I hated that box but made sure it was carefully preserved and sent along with the rest of her crap when she left.

    Thinking back it’s odd how completely amoral she seemed about that although she professed to be disgusted by the cheating of others.


  • I received the “you should know the truth” text with screenshots of their conversation. I received these the day that he and I returned from a weekend mountain getaway. She was pissed off and jealous that he had spent the weekend with his wife, so she made sure to ruin it. That was DDay #1. Two months later he walked out for her and moved in with her. I played the pick me dance one more time after that, only to have him walk out again. She wasn’t concerned for me knowing the truth. If she had been, she wouldn’t have fucked my husband in my home while I was upstairs sleeping. She wanted to win. Well, guess what, you win the prize! Good luck.

  • I think the most “benevolent” (using that term loosely) thing an OW can do is tell the truth and peace the fuck out.

    Or yknow…just not fuck someone else’s spouse in the first place but we’re talking OW here.

    Of course they could do that at literally any point, but they always seem to pull the holier-than-thou stuff after being caught. It’s the same as a cheater saying sorry. They’re not sorry they hurt you, they’re sorry for themselves getting found out.

    Sidenote: My autocorrect changed “holier” to “hokier” and I almost just left it that way…

  • The Predatory Opportunistic Parasite (POP) sought me out to have as a place to live, car to drive enabler so that he could continue his relationship with the town bike. Not aware of his intentions at the time, I fell for his love bombing and had asked him to move in with me.
    He told his ho that he ‘worked for me’ and had listed all his ‘chores’….total bs. Once she caught wind that he and I were going out in public looking like an intimate couple, she contacted me to (benevolently) inform me of their relationship and demanded I SEND HER A PICTURE OF HIM IN MY BED to prove to her that we were ‘involved’.

    As I recall, one of my responses to her as ‘are you f*cking crazy?’

  • Yeah, I got that too. While I’m not one to appreciate comments about someone;s mental health, this woman six bricks short of a load. After my spouse admitted he had cheated on me, I started getting messages form her by the basketful. They ranged from ” you’re such a great person, we should be friends, and if you ever want to talk about your marriage, you can get in touch with me”. On what planet would that even happen?

    I should have known right then that I was dealing with someone with some major personality issues. I got dozens of messages, including ones that ranged from what a great person I was to how I had ruined her life and she was going to harm herself and it would be my fault.

    A call to law enforcement stopped that tack- they showed up at her front door ( she lived just up the road, so I could see all this) saying they’d had a call that she was at risk and wanted to make sure she was okay. Even better we were living on a military base, she’s military and they were the MPs. The chain of command got involved, and she was soundly told off and to stop. She stopped the threats of self harm, but continued to be a pest.

    Eleven years later, and I don’t live anywhere near her anymore. the last I heard, she was married, had young kids and her husband is cheating on her. I can’t feel good about that. I know how bad it feels to be a young mother and find out your spouse has been unfaithful. I wonder if she spares me, and the many other wives who were hurt, in part, because of her choices, a thought from time to time.

  • They had an emotional affair after knowing each other for three weeks.

    Months later, while SheWhoSucks was busy impression making for my behalf, and I suspect HerChump’s behalf too, HeWhoSucks had already told me that they had both both been emotionally disloyal, there had been hand-holding, they’d admitted to each other that they’d ‘developed feelings’, that he’d emotionally betrayed me for months, including lying about phone/Skype contact with her when I was out of town, deleting messages and lying to our counsellor.

    SheWhoSucks emailed me to tell me that I wasn’t entitled to see the emails she sent to HeWhoSucks because they were addressed to him. She needed to share her problems with HeWhoSucks because HerChump was less experienced in life. And they weren’t cheating, she was merely ‘appreciating HeWhoSuck’s presence’. He was her ‘soulmate’.

    Pass the bucket.

    I made the mistake of attempting to engage with her and gave her a way out to maintain a professional relationship with HeWhoSucks; I could have saved my time and just stuck my head straight into a blender. Lesson learned. Never attempt to reason with a Narc. Apparently, I’m the first of her many colleagues’ wives to speak up. None of the others have ever showed the same ‘insecurity and jealousy’.

    If only I was more Bohemian.

    She mailed me ‘And yet, these women had a lot of reasons to be anxious, because sometimes their husbands and I are sharing the same room during the tour, and more rarely, but it already happened, the same bed to reduce our fees. But even if we are close during the tour and we are developing a good friendship, we always respect the wife and husband of each other and our lovers trust us. Fortunately, because if not, we could never do our profession!

    So she, as their employer, invites her employees to share her bed ‘to reduce… fees”. Amazing anyone’s able to work at all while they’re so busy doing each other in their heads.

    Note, her company’s receives Public Funding funded to do this. So noble of her to sacrifice herself for her art. But clearly this isn’t a performance which has a lot of ticket sales. I suspect HerChump knows nothing of her behaviours while she’s away from home and he’s looking after their two very young children.

    Unicorns don’t exist, and PTSD does.

  • My ex gaslighted me into believing that two OW were pursuing him (years apart). The second was a colleague of ours. When I found out, we unfriended her on FB (ironically I joined FB to monitor their interactions as I thought she was too friendly). The next day she confronts me after a meeting saying she did not know how “he spun it.” To my regret, I wish I had let her talk, just to get her version.

    Later it was apparent their relationship was at the very least an EA.

    Years later, she and I are still at the same workplace; Ex moved on 6 years ago.

    She rears her head every 2-3 years. Seems to think that the formal agreement we have for no contact outside of work related matters does not pertain to her. A couple of years ago we literally ran into one another in a doorway. The next day she sent me this:

    “I’ve been meaning to reach out to you and see if you would like to go to lunch or dinner sometime. A few years ago, we agreed to just keep all of our interactions strictly professional. Of course, I’m willing to continue that. I just thought that it might be a good idea to get together and maybe talk. Time and distance has a way of providing perspective and you might have some things you want to say to me. And I’d like to acknowledge that. If not, absolutely no worries. Just thought I would put it out there.”

    um, no. I ignored that.

    • I’ve got many male friends but nine of them is my ‘soulmate’ (I find the whole concept immature and childish anyway). I don’t claim such crap to their wives and I don’t share my bed with them, platonically or otherwise. You say jealous, I say boundaries.

  • I did get a letter from the OW outing him. We were in “reconciliation” and he had told me he had no contact with her, that she had gotten married to someone else and moved away. My intuition told me it was a lie, but when I confronted him with my thoughts he said I was crazy. Sure enough, I got a letter in the mail from her telling me that he had kept in contact with her the whole year of reconciliation. My first thought upon reading the letter was I was not crazy he HAD been in contact with her. My second thought was I had nothing to work with and I filed for divorce a few days later. Her letter was the same theme as this one, telling me my husband was dishonest, even to God. She told me they met on a dating site instead of at the hospital like he had told me, (he’s a physician, and she’s a nurse). That information told me he was the one looking for affairs, not his narrative of she came onto him.

    Interestingly, a friend of mine(also a chump but still with her cheater) told me the letter was the OW trying to get me to kick my husband out so she could have him. I didn’t care. The letter was my “get out of this sucky marriage free card”! Sure enough when my cheater couldn’t hoover me back in he went back to her. They married five months after the divorce was final. We all have to be cordial at weddings and graduations. I’m at meh so it’s actually fine. My new husband and life are so much better that I actually feel sorry for her married to my ex. But she knew what she married.

  • I have never heard a single peep from the final OW. It’s great compared to some of the outrageous things I read here, but also strikes me as odd. I knew her husband well and even attended their wedding. Her husband, X and myself all worked together. I left the company to be a SAHM (because X hated that I earned more and outranked him.) Her husband got her a job there after I was gone. Then she slept with her married boss prompting a divorce for both. They all stayed at the same company silently hating each other. Then she and my X started sleeping together.(She was one of 100’s of OWs for my X.) She was looking for someone with money and X was always looking for side-F*cks.

    I never contacted her after I found out. I figured she wasn’t special, just one of many and definitely my “easy out” from an otherwise completely fucked up marriage to an abusive sociopath. I steer very clear if I see them at a kid event. I don’t think she is scared of me, I don’t even know if she knows that I know she was sleeping with him those 2.5 years… He is a pathological liar so who knows what he told her. I know he’s cheated on her w/ at least 2 different people though-hahaha. He told me she does all his sexual fantasies (some dark stuff as I also discovered that he has a massive porn addiction. I am apparently “prude” because I don’t want to participate in orgies and deviant sexual activities.)

    She and her daughter live with him now but she is kind of a secret. X is a snobby, image obsessed executive and she’s total white trash. He was alone only a short time because he is far too special to clean or cook and she can help him live out his “I’m a porn star” fantasy.

    I immediately blocked her from anything I could find, LinkedIn, FB, Instgram… I barely use social media, but I sure as shit did not want her looking at my life. Because we are all so connected through work there were musings and rumors that she was sorely disappointed that our lovely house was sold and she wasn’t able to slip into my life.

    She has met DS because they tricked him acting like they just met during the 1.5 year divorce process. DS asked me because he felt something was odd and I answered all his questions honestly outing her as the OW and sharing her history of F-ing other married men in the office. DD has refused to meet her which pisses X off to no end.

    DD hasn’t spent a single night with him since we moved out. DS tried to be diplomatic spending weekends there at first, but got fed up and stopped after about a month. He also has severe allergies and those idiots got a dog. So he couldn’t go there if he wanted to, yet X keeps hassling them to come be a part of their family. Kids are 18 and 21 now so they can do what they want thank goodness.

    He calls or texts them on the 1st or 2nd each and every month which they find annoying and funny and at the same time. They think he has a reminder in his phone set for the 1st of each month that he has kids.

  • “OM seem to be more straightforward sleaze bags. They just fuck around and don’t think too deeply about it. Thank God for small mercies.”

    Yeah, this is probably true. They’re in it for the NSA sex.

    • Yep! Agreed.
      My XW, a police officer, was having an affair with one her (married) sergeants. She discarded me, filed for divorce and got an apartment…and he summarily dumped her.

    • Yes its really interesting about the OM. I think in some ways it demonstrates the high likelihood that OM are looking for the physical aspect and fun with probably little thought put into the entire sequence of events. While the OW (at least in my experience and those I read about) is a completely different animal. They’re much more machiavellian in their pursuit and even after they win the pick me dance. I think for the OW its about competing and thinking they’re superior if they succeed at luring the married man away from his wife and family. Its like some sort of huge accomplishment in their eyes…as if getting the married man means they are just amazing and irresistible. They also seem to enjoy taunting the chump. I briefly met the OW who worked with my ex husband. I hardly remember her she was that interesting. I’ve never had any contact with her once I found out about the affair. I don’t trust her. The psychiatrist that worked with her and was a family friend warned me about her and her personality disorder. The kids don’t spend much time with her because ex hardly wants them anyways. It makes my life more difficult because I get little break but its best they stay away. I always worry she will try to probe them for information or find some way to make theirs/my life miserable. Its strange too given that she got what she wanted but my intuition tells me she will continue to find ways to create conflict. She even asked my kids to call her mom the same name they refer to my mom (their real grandmother). I had to address this with my ex who thought it was fine and couldn’t see how upsetting and confusing that is. She once sent christmas cookies back with them from a visit. I promptly threw them in the dumpster in front of the kids. I told them to keep a low profile and just be polite. I don’t trust her intentions. Like many OW having the ex husband is not enough for her. Its about more than that for them. Its some way to increase self- esteem and power etc. OM are much simpler.

  • Ugh!!

    I’m still stuck in the stage of being jealous of them

    I’ve never heard from her so she doesn’t seem bat shit crazy ( she must be though she got pregnant with a married mans baby after 11 weeks and engaged to a married man also )

    But I’m still stuck on the continuous loop of well she MUST be better than me . She gets everything she set out to get

    I’ll get there one day

    • “she got pregnant with a married mans baby after 11 weeks and engaged to a married man also” Definitely “bat shit crazy” in my book.

      • As I say she’s never uttered a word to me
        So she’s not like many of the other bat shit crazies !

        My ex told me for 19 years that he never wanted children no ifs no buts no maybes and if I got myself pregnant he’d leave me

        He told me this before marriage so I’ve always known and never even had a scare i was regimental in my birth control

        Yet she gets pregnant and he’s not leaving her !! This then draws me back in the loop she MUST be better than me bat shit crazy or not

        • That is so F-ed up! What a complete asshole; that is worse than breeding with a fuckwit. He basically stole your fertility from you.

          • Yep ! We met when I was 26 he was 27 I desperately wanted children but he was never going to have any of that . I asked again when I was 30 ( time ticking ) again he said he’d leave me .
            I asked again when I was 32 and 36 he said if I brought it up again he’d divorce me . I never ever mentioned it again I’m now 46 this year and his 29 year old ho ho is allowed a baby though

  • Hahahahaha! What is it about affair partners citing literature we all had to read in high school to look more intelligent??! I read The Great Gatsby in high school too. I also read The Scarlet Letter in high school which one affair partner quoted to me to try to look intelligent… While I was finishing my PhD….

  • I was getting my hair cut one day when a male friend of my hairdresser was also in getting his hair cut. She (the hairdresser) managed to bring up, in front of the friend (who knew my ex from the ho bar), that the ex was telling everyone in the ho bar that I used to beat him up when he came home from work! (I would point out that the hairdresser knew me well enough to reckon I wouldn’t mind this). Anyway, when I heard the bit about my “beating him up every night” I burst out laughing it was so funny, and just said “what an asshole”! I spotted the look she gave her male friend and he just shook his head. She apologized to me afterwards but said she thought that was the best way of getting the message out there! No problem here!

  • I got the BEST message from an OW (there were many OWs, concurrent, but by this stage I was 6 months gone). I got CLOSURE! Sweetest gift in the whole damn marriage. Gift giving was his love (bombing) language.

    “Hi, I’ve been seeing Dick for just over a year. Don’t want to wreck your Sunday but I just wanted to know if he has your kids this weekend?”


    1. No he doesn’t have the kids.
    2. If you’re asking this you have no idea what a lying cheating fuckwit you’ve ended up with do you?
    3. I left him 6 months ago. But, that was because he’d been screwing THIS BITCH (inserted unflattering overtly “sexy” Instagram pic) IN MY HOME AND MY BED WHILE I WORKED MY ARSE OFF. Where did you come from?

    I’d told my husband we were done a year earlier, almost to the day, “just over”.

    I’d been contacted by BFF of THIS BITCH advising me of all details a year earlier. Suspect BFF had put her up to it. 4 years sneaking around is exhausting she wanted her investment to mature.

    But I didn’t leave. We acted normal. We had holidays. We didn’t discuss (I brought it up plenty). We were stuck in narc paralysis (that’s his great trick, stonewalling and digging heels in and going harder).

    Turns out he HAD acted on it, by sending dick pics to his the OW. He kept THIS BITCH as decoy bitch, while starting out with a very lucrative gravy train I wouldn’t be able to sniff out.

    She’d been told we were seperated but still living together for the kids. Then 6 months later he started doing week on week off at the home (when I dumped him and we birdnested for a month or so). He was having them both over during his week, kids there sleeping. In my home. And completely LOSING HIS SHIT if I showed up early for the morning shift (I got kids to school he did after school). Sometimes they stayed all night but always escaped before I got there.

    I have no bug bear with her. Also Chumpedby her ex husband. Also long term single and desperate as I was when I met him. We’re not desperate now. We’re friends, and we laugh and laugh and laugh at the circumstances of our lucky escapes.

    To be able to compare lies and understand the extent of the lies was game changing. Trauma bond gone! He’s tried to smear her to me (even to family court – dismissed as irrelevant) by saying she knew we were together. No, she really didn’t. Her attitude to cheaters is solid. Her daughter is a narc and she gets it. We suspect her ex husband is too. Cheater, so yeah.

    THAT BITCH gets to eat the shit sandwich of:

    1. Knowing he cheats and lies
    2. Having herself be paraded on (and the rest) as part of a couple with a “bicurious guy” (with a huge gut, multiple addictions and anger issues) whose into fisting, dogging, deep penetration, cuckolding, wearing women’s underwear and gang bangs!) and thinking it means they’re “special” (I endured this bullshit too but never actually let it all happen).
    3. Trusting that when he says he has the kids, he has the kids (or not trusting more like). He has them alternate weeks, I’ve never shifted on that. My friend the OW who didn’t know she was an OW told me all his moves. This one one of the most hurtful (apparently he has kids for at least 3 nights a week when it’s my week because I’m such a nasty mother!)
    4. Either thinking she’s in nearly wedded bliss or being told to accept he’s a sex addict and needs to fuck around. Either way it’s a shit sandwich.
    5. Being terrified of me (I showed up once looking for my kids cos he had stalked me (found him in garage) and left kids with her while telling me they were with his creepy landlord. So she took out a trespass order, on his instruction. Trespass orders mean jack shit. I thought it was funny. And way more benign in a court setting than the very long family harm file I have open with the police on him).

    Closure is elusive with these sociopathic clowns. And I got it. It may not be a unicorn but it’s pretty darn close!

    • Nice 🙂 reminds me of the person X met and moved in 2 months after separation (decades marriage) who contacted me when he cheated on her to complain X was a serial cheater and share some info about his previous cheating…

  • Traci your awesome I’m finally at “MEH” on a Tuesday thanks to your column and readers. My divorce was final last week Wed at 3:20PM Canada time! I had awesome counseling I got luck it was free and that helped me immensely. I have two great teenagers I adore and I’m now just working on “ME” for the first time in two decades. I just turned 52 and I’m strong I can do this!????????????????

  • Karen6702

    I just wanted to tell you that I seriously doubt your x “planned” anything. These people aren’t that smart. It’s a huge shit sandwich that he stole any chance for you to have any children. But I can guarantee the OW got knocked up on purpose. Why he doesn’t leave is because she’s far too new, too stupid right now. Give it some time. You got the best end of this deal sister !! When the Ow has to spend almost all of her time with this new baby, and he starts feeling neglected. Yeah, you can fill in the rest. It’s all great.. until it’s not.

  • It was hilarious listening to “Five Women-This American Life” regarding the long partnered Don Hazen (to a therapist no less, Vivian Dent in Oakland CA) and his predatory behavior at AlterNet. I unpacked all the b.s. as the reporter interviewed the five women,my favorite being the delusional Other Woman Deanna. Sad that Vivian Dent stayed with him, untangling his crusty skein and going so far as to cut out the truly unsavory bits. According to Vivian, only Deanna’s account of a five (!) year affair was valid but not the other women being sexually harassed. Viv was processing and integrating the affair because that’s what she does as a therapist-seeks to understand.

  • There is a very clear moment when find out some man showing interest in you is married. And then you blow the whistle on the ATTEMPTED affair for the stated purpose of helping his wife know the Real Truth. Plus, yuck.

  • I know I am going to open myself up to a lot of scrutiny, but here I go.
    I was once the OW. I didn’t know it at first. They were broken up when me and my ex-narcissist met. As with any narcissist, I was put on a pedestal and he quickly moved in with me. He stressed an open relationship, I was fine with that, but as is the norm during the pedestal stage, lots of I love yous from him to me. But also a lot of ups and downs, demonization, etc.
    Two years later, suddenly another woman appears. He claimed to have just met her and that within weeks he was ready to marry her. I was flabbergasted. I said ok if that’s what you want, go for it. I was heartbroken but not devastated. While I loved him I didn’t want to marry him, so I thought maybe this is for the best. But then they broke up, and I was still there. He kept stressing it was over between them, I stupidly chose to believe him because I wanted cake. I wanted to mess around with no commitment.
    Anyway very long story short so as not to turn myself into a victim, it turned out that they didn’t meet each other when he said they did. They had been together for YEARS, and when he and I met, it was simply a time when they were on a break due to geography, but he had met her long before me and rekindled things two years after he started with me. I had always suspected he was embellishing and/or lying, but I was finally confronted with the truth after this woman showed up at my house. She thought I was simply his friend and was confiding in me how abusive he was. Because of my own shame, I didn’t admit to her that not only were we together on and off, but he referred to her as not his girlfriend and claimed she was obsessive and a stalker who couldn’t let go. So I listened to her vent, got the information I needed, and broke up with the guy. Have been NC ever since because I know he gets off on triangulation. He’s tried to contact me nonstop, even using his main chick to reach out to me! Unbelievable.
    To this day, many many years later, I am still wracked with guilt. I was essentially the OW, for he had an open relationship with me, but not with her. To her, the relationship was closed. I go to therapy for my deep issues to make sure that I never do something like this to someone else again. But this woman is still dealing with this guy. Last I checked, she still talks to all of his family, in spite not being with him. I see this and want to direct her to this website because I feel she truly deserves to move on with her life. I see this and want to tell her the truth about my affair with him, but I feel that, while my intentions are good, I have no right to do something like that. I should be ashamed of myself. I suspected they were together but chose to believe him because I didn’t want the drama that comes with ending it with a narcissist. But I feel honest-to-God remorse. Every day I feel this overwhelming guilt that my choice was so disgusting it contributed…no passive voice, I contributed to the victimisation of another human being. So should I ever say sorry? Do you “chumps” (I put that in quotation marks but only because I don’t want anyone to think I am using the term offensively) think that me apologising to this woman would only be self-serving, self-indulgent, and hypocritical of me? I’m not doing this to alleviate my own guilt. I will ALWAYS feel guilty. I would do it because I owe her an apology. But would an apology only worsen things for her? How do I express sincere remorse? I am open to your honest feedback, even if it’s to say F U. I need to get this off my chest and I need for someone (other than my ex) to tell me I’m a jerk. Thanks.

    • What do you mean he stressed an open relationship at the beginning ? Honest and open communication about needs and boundaries or open to dating and having sex with others ?

      The question you have to ask yourself is what does it mean to apologize AND make amends. What is the real motivation behind your speaking to this woman ? It seems you want to control her and how she manages her relationship with this man. Why is that ?

      You could start by anonymously sending her info about Tracy’s website and book.

      • Thanks for your response. I appreciate it.

        “What do you mean he stressed an open relationship at the beginning ? Honest and open communication about needs and boundaries or open to dating and having sex with others ?”

        Open to dating and having s*x with others. But as is typical with narcissists (I know this now), he wanted freedom for himself, not so much for me. And at the beginning of the relationship, he stressed dating others but also asked me to marry him. So weird (I said no, FYI).

        “The question you have to ask yourself is what does it mean to apologize AND make amends. What is the real motivation behind your speaking to this woman ? It seems you want to control her and how she manages her relationship with this man. Why is that ?”

        Hmm…I don’t want to control her, but I can see why it seems that way to others. It’s actually why I wouldn’t even dare warn her about him. I know I’m not trying to control her or even get back at him, but sometimes we have ulterior motives even we aren’t aware of. So I often ask myself what you just asked me: what is my real motivation? It keeps me in check. But then I start to feel like I’m still allowing him to cheat on her constantly and abuse her. But is it my place to warn or tell her things? No it’s not. Am I responsible for his behaviour? Absolutely not. He was going to cheat whether it was with me or her best friend (he got involved with her best friend too). But everyone wants to be a hero, you know? I guess in some sick way I feel I owe this to her but isn’t that narcissistic of me too? To think I’m somehow her saviour. To think that somehow the information I can provide will make a difference. I’ve always had that problem: thinking I can make a positive impact on other people’s lives if just given the opportunity. It’s why my ex took so much advantage of me and painted a picture of him needing me to be a better person.

        Anais Nin said, “we don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are.” After this woman I screwed over for years came to see me and confirmed all of my suspicions over the years, I saw that as a blessing and dropped him. Part of me feels I should return the favour. But that is most certainly me overestimating my influence. She only had influence over me because I wanted to move on but needed a push. I was already planning my escape from my abusive situation. She might not be there yet. And it might not be me who has the power to push her. Ok, yes it’s control. I just realised that now after typing all of my thoughts.

        “You could start by anonymously sending her info about Tracy’s website and book.”

        I was thinking about that. Fear of getting caught and possibly suffering physical assault (he beat me up) is what stops me.

        Maybe I should get over myself and deal with this in therapy and continue not to bother this woman. It sounds like a cop-out but I don’t want to get sucked in to the triangle again. And I feel I’ve done enough damage, even if I didn’t get caught (or, at the very least, she chose not to call me out). Why continue the saga? It doesn’t change what happened. And in this case I don’t even think it will change the future.

  • She is trying to justify her immoral behaviour and his rationalize so she can sleep at night. They deserve their circus.
    My ex prostitute he fell in love with called and threatened me to report me to children’s aid meanwhile advertised she did duos with her daughter????
    Seriously what a mess her poor daughter
    Again took to lawyer and police.

    Still wish her daughter a better life as a strong woman

  • The OW in my story thought she was rescuing Dr Narc from an unsupportive wife! She said “when you meet the right woman she can stop the pain and rage”

    Yeah how is that working out for you!!!!!!!!

    • I am sure mine thought she was a rescuer of Mr Sad Pants from his supposedly horrendous relationship that he’d been so lonely in I had made him ill. Apparently over the years he was alienated, cold shouldered, mocked and humiliated. And he used to go and sit in the car park and cry. Never said a word, apparently ‘accommodated these feelings’ because he felt he had to until he found a skank who would lap up his woes and play rescuer.

      I have some intel that she’s a controlling witch but not my problem. Good luck to both of you just keep your shit away from my daughter (they are doing a right number on her).

      I am certain it was the OW who sent me an anonymous email about the affair looking back. Certain.

      If she ever tried to extend the olive branch (she won’t, she likes to go with the I am mean and scary story) I will rip it out of her hand and stick it down her throat.

      You know the truth, now fuck off – god I love Chump Lady xx

  • Ok, to be fair, I don’t think this woman knew? I mean, she said, “He took away my right to consciously choose whether or not to have him cheat on you with me when he forgot to mention he was dating you (after I specifically asked). ” So I think the timeline is that 1.) she hooks up with him without knowing he’s with someone else, 2.) after she finds out he says he’s about to dump his gf so OW should wait for him, 3.) when she realizes that he’s not gonna dump gf she tells her.

    I mean, it’s not clear that she kept sleeping with him after she found out. So I’ll give her a tentative pass.

  • Just a bit off topic but you know he said she said and on and on ….bottom line is these “covert narcs” are very dangerous to you mind body and spirit…mostly your physical health …some are also A sexual they’ll go with almost anyone switch teams (nothing against Bi or gay) it’s the concealment …and the danger they put there spouses in and a sexually transmitted disease can be deadly….these “covert narcs” are the worst people think …they’re great (image management) they even convince u ..u take them back they looooooove u (oh sure that’s why they consistently cheat ) they love no one but themselves….period …the reason they stay married is it’s easier and usually it’s convenience ..image ..and last but nit least MONEY

  • I just want to put this out there…my OW, said she “didn’t know.” She had no idea that she and I were sharing a partner. She acted outraged when I confronted her, and said she though my ex-narc and I were “just friends.” OK. She met him through me. He and I did not live together but saw each other at least four times a week. She was representing me as an author, and he is also a writer in the community. She was offering to drop off stock at my house, but had also suddenly become cold toward me. But still, he and she insisted that she “didn’t know,” and one of my friends even believed this and asked me to give her the benefit of the doubt (and is now publishing a book with this house, so I wonder how much of that is wanting her to be innocent). I just want to say that if she really, truly, officially “didn’t know” that he and I were an item, it is because she did such a bang-on, stellar job of not knowing, a head-in-the-sand Olympic effort toward not knowing. Such a concerted, heroic effort to “not know” that she almost convinced herself.

    People have eyes. And ears. And hearts, and intuitions. I think that there are, for sure, OW who did not know that they were OW. But I think that in 98% of the cases, OW have a lot of facts in front of them, and they choose not to see. And it’s at another woman’s expense–one who GENUINELY thought they were in an exclusive relationship. I am sickened by people who play innocent when they have willfully allowed a narc to play the smoke and mirrors game, or when they buy the story of the woman he mentions every day being “just a friend.” These OW should open their eyes, and take responsibility for their shitty, slippery, cowardly, and selfish behavior. And do it quietly, without asking for public sympathy or kudos. I am disgusted with narcissistic men, but just as much so with women who sell another woman up the river by turning a blind eye and then acting the saintly victim, or the wiser and “reformed” kindly sage. Kibbles, kibbles, and more kibbles is what I see. Scraping the bowl for more attention, long after their victim has gone. It’s gross.

  • Long time reader first time poster. I have had 5 D-Days. After 15 years with who I do believe to be the worst husband any woman could ever have. I sucked the hopium pipe every time he came back declaring his undying love and convincing me it was somehow my fault. As my divorce looms on Monday, one that I lied about and committed a serious offence by signing as we had in deed reconciled, I decided to post finally as this story made me want to share my story about a OW who decided she was going “ to give me the truth”!

    Ordinary I wouldn’t blame them, to be honest he is so full of shit that I believed his lies so why wouldn’t all these OW’s also believe it. He convinced them my social media and posts of our family together were all a sham and that I did it to hurt them. Yardda yadda. I could post all the shit things these woman have done to humiliate me online. How he went on 3 different holidays with 3 different woman whilst telling me “ he was sorting himself out so he could be present in pur marriage” ect ect. How he was having sex with 2 other women and me (that I know of probably more) and never using a condom. But this particular OW wins for being the ultimate story of destruction to the “ wife”

    My STBXH had wanted to come back in October 18 and I had planned a trip to Disneyland California for our little girls 8th birthday. We live in Australia so it was a big deal. He wanted to come and stated that this would be our family coming back. Now mind you, as stupid as I was to even entertain another reconciliation after so many affairs, my little girl would ask me every night “ Please don’t give up on Daddy”. I just wanted the pain to stop. Ya know… Anyhow, we had a wonderful Christmas and off we went in Feb 2019 on her actual Birthday as a family to Disneyland. We arrived and she was beaming. All happiness loved up family. He kept saying how happy he was and that this was all he wanted. I just felt, OK. Let’s do this. Anyhoooooo. As the day progressed he became more and more agitated and on his phone. I asked “ What’s going on”. He has told me not to use Insta as he didn’t want to pay for the huge bill but I was posting photos of my family on this magical day. Little did I know his “girlfriend” was I a. Rage. She apparently had zero idea we were together as she was told we had been “ separated” for years and it was all “ fake”. So I got the “ Hey, I think you need to know the truth DM”. Now, to put this into perspective, even though yep she had been duped, she was unbeknownst to me following my socials media. She knew it was my little girls 8th birthday. So. When she didn’t get the response she had hoped she opened an account in the Husband’s name and sends a message request. At that very moment my little girl is taking photos of Disneyland and is just pure eye popping joy. She hits accept and a video of her father having sex with this person starts playing. All I hear is the sounds of wild sex, my daughter screaming “ Mummy” and chucking me the phone while Mickey mouse tunes play in the background…..Horrific. I shall never get over this and how she painted this as her “ Telling me the truth”.. I then find out this woman is a psychologist who specialises in trauma……..Ladies and gentleman , meet the most charitable of all the OW’s. She was helping….of course, he cried and begged me not to ruin our little girls big trip. He begged me to make that holiday our family coming together and then told our daughter her best gift was her family being back together I was backed into a trauma corner. When we returned I could not fake it anymore and even though we stayed together for another 4 months it was doomed. He had now had my child subjected to these “OW’s”. We are done. Court date is Monday and it’s over. Sad thing is I’m so shattered my family is gone. That’s my stuff. I will prevail. He has swiftly moved in with another woman who is apparently “ The One”…

    • Seriously how do these people live with themselves. I’m sorry that happened to you and your little girl, from a fellow Aussie Chump xx

      • I honestly do not know. But at the very least I am not going to be the one who has to worry about his rubbish and lies anymore. X

    • KG,

      (((Hugs))) to you across the States and the Pacific Ocean. I’ve learned that somebody can be a mental health care professional AND seriously disordered. Not a person of character.

      I mentioned the Don Hazen/Vivian Denet/AlterNet clusterf*ck in one of my comments this week.. I suspect that she (a therapist, his partner of many years) was the OW that helped end his marriage years ago. So now that he was caught cheating AND sexually harassing much younger women she doesn’t want to admit that she has wasted twenty years of her life with a creep. She’s buy “integrating” and “seeking to understand.” Good luck Viv !

      • Thank you. I find it all just so overwhelming that she maintained she had no idea he was lying. She sent me everything and even screenshots of him telling her our family Disney images were all staged and fake. He goes as far as he can and these woman believe it. They can have him. I move forward with great joy even though I will be damaged forever by the trauma.

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