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The ‘I Fail to Understand Your Hostility’ Mindfuck

mindfuckchannelBWThere is no mindfuck like the I Fail to Understand Your Hostility mindfuck. As mindfucks go, it’s Jedi-level mindfuckery. Oh sure your lesser manipulator can sputter some pathetic lies, or shrug and play dumb. The IFTUYH mindfucker, however, is one cool customer. Zero adaptive anxiety. Your inchoate rage just bounces off their wall of smug. This crazy don’t break.

So what is the IFTUYH mindfuck? Here’s an example.

Chump: I know you’ve been cheating on me with Bobby. I saw the text messages. And your dating profiles. And my genitals have oozing sores. And I’ve been monogamous for 20 years.

IFTUYH: I fail to understand your hostility.

Chump: I SAID, I KNOW YOU’RE CHEATING ON ME! WHAT PART OF THAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND YOU SOCIOPATHIC MOTHERFUCKER?!

IFTUYH: You know I’d really like to talk about this, but I don’t think it would be productive right now with your overreactions. Let’s just wait until you can be civil.

Chump: Civil?! You BROKE MY HEART! (Sobs… falls to ground…) How COULD YOU?

IFTUYH: How could I? I can’t help what errant toilet seats you sit on. I’m sorry you have festering pustules. You really should look into that. How can you expect me to be attracted to someone with oozing sores? It pains me to say it, but your personal hygiene really disgusts me. But now that you know how I feel, you can set to making that right. Why don’t you go take a hot, soapy shower?

Chump: AIIIIIGGGGGGHHHH!!!! (Sob. Snuffle. Snot.)

IFTUYH: Bobby always smells nice.

Chump: I KNOW YOU’RE CHEATING ON ME WITH BOBBY!

IFTUYH: I’m not going to stand for your vile accusations. This is so typical of you. I’m not going to deign to respond to that or resort to name calling.

Chump: (In a raging fury, flails at IFTUYH…) YOU ASSHOLE! YOU CHEATING SCUMBAG! QUIT LYING TO ME!

IFTUYH: I’m just glad that one of us can be civil.

****

Chumps, never speak truth to stupid. If a cheater fails to understand your hostility? Don’t try and explain it to them. This isn’t an insight problem, you’re being manipulated.

Chumps love to tilt at the mindfuck windmill, armed with reason and evidence, and their broken hearts. Surely THIS should matter to you? Right? Right?

You will achieve no consensus here. No comfort. Just more mindfuckery. The only way to respond to I Fail to Understand Your Hostility is to walk away. Refuse to engage. Unleash the consequences.

In my book, in the chapter Stupid Shit Cheaters Say, my response to this one is: “You fail to understand my hostility? Let your lawyer explain it to you. He bills in 6-minute increments. Hope you’re a quick study.”

This one ran previously. Morning appointment!

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  • Needed this today! Exactly what I’m dealing with and I keep trying to be reasonable. Then I am ignored. Total headworker.

  • You mention flailing and it honestly makes me wonder sometimes if using the IFTUYH is a cheater purposefully goading a chump to physically lash out so that they can say, “See, see, they’re abusive, of *course* I had to leave!”

      • Looking back, I see that my cheating (2 1/2 year affair) STBX engineered fights in the last year to goad me into reacting. When I reacted angrily to something or other, he would (I’m sure) use my reaction to justify his affair. It blows my mind. And it stings. I was in the dark, but he knew damn well what he was doing.

        • Yup – same here. He would do really mean things and say mean things and then when I would react and ask him why he was hurting me, he would deny. Then I would get pissed and call him an a$$hole and he would feign that I was the hostile one.

          So textbook.

          • Yes! This!
            They are not human. Your hurt just slides off them like a raw egg thrown against a smooth tile backsplash.

            They do goad you. Then when you lose it, they use it as proof you are “crazy”.

            I had to be SO careful during my divorce not to react, not to show any emotion ever, grey rock all the way.

            Once I messed up and reacted. He video recorded it. That was exactly what he wanted, proof that he was right.

            I wanted so badly to defend myself in court by saying “Even the mighty ocean brings a tsunami when there’s a big enough earthquake.”

            But because of my incompetent lawyer and his highly unprincipled lawyer I lost physical custody of my kids.

            I left his abusive ass, so of course I’m crazy. Because anyone that would even think of leaving him is crazy. Clearly. *epic eyeroll*.

            You can’t make this shit up.

            I thought the Hysterical Woman Defense hadn’t been used since the 1960’s. Apparently it is alive and well in the US and still quite effective.

        • XW picked a fight when I *dared* to put pictures of our kids on the giant, unused mantelpiece in the room she wanted to claim as her study. (We had just moved, I was unpacking, and needed to put the pictures somewhere so I could get to the other things in a moving box. XW forced me to stop setting up the kitchen so I could repack the pictures and get them out of *her* room).

          Poor thing, she’d had 6 months of unrestricted access to AP (she moved ahead of me and the kids for her new job) and she was having trouble adjusting to having her family back.

        • Same for me. Rows described as ‘brutal’ as justification for leaving (one of many) all created in the last 4 months by the headworker. Then I was called ‘mad’, a ‘lunatic’, ‘manipulative’. If I’d known that I was a chump rather than a wife having reasonable disagreements with a drunk husband the rows would have been brutal. He did concede that the rows weren’t as bad as those ‘others’ had i.e. between him and ex-gf OW when she stormed out of restaurants and was thrown out of the house by his mother. I failed to come up to that high standard of passion for him. What’s the saying ‘no longer my circus, no longer my monkeys’, thank goodness.

        • Oh yeah. Also gave him a reason to break up with me (seriously, over shit like me asking when some benign household chore would be done), disappear for a few hours, get laid, and come back to me trying to keep our household and family together, in the middle of a freaking housing crisis!

          Was always gobsmacked at the minorness of transgressions we would be over over, it became a joke (like boy who cried wolf joke). Eventually I got sick of it and dumped his arse. He wasn’t expecting that. His move, my bluff. Except not a bluff. Glad I’m done.

        • Ex froze me out. I felt so frustrated and devalued. When I wanted to know why he was treating me like sh#% he didn’t reply. I finally said that he could choose counselling or leave.
          He chose to leave then and there. No explanation.
          I later found out about the affair and his plans to leave.
          I also later found out he was telling people we had had a fight and I had kicked him out. Dishonest and cowardly.

          • Ah yes. After stbxh had finally fessed up about the five-year long affair (after leaving first once Denkinger he had someone else and then coming back but acting like an asshole) andI was onviouly mad and upset, and he asked me if I wanted him to leave. I told him yes and he left, proceeding to tell people I threw him out 😣

          • That’s exactly what happened in my case. Eventually I told him to get help or get the hell out. He chose to leave. I found out about the affair two months after.

        • Spinach@35

          “it stings” – yes it does.

          When I read some of these posts I do find value – but I am also often reminded or hit with realizations of yet MORE shit my ex did.

          AND IT STILL STINGS!…

          I’m so disappointed in my healing process tonight. It’s as if I keep discovering or realizing new shitty things he did to me or our kids. And it wounds me.

          The gross injustice of it all will probably always bother me – and that’s my question.

          WHEN DOES THIS STOP BOTHERING ME????

          40 months post D Day and 18 months post divorce. Financially he’s way ahead thanks to my supporting him in his DOCTOR pursuits. My kids and I are close, though they were frustrated by what I put up with while I was pick me dancing for YEARS without knowing it…and I feel I let them down for a long time.

          NOW

          I’m in a new career in a new country and I am making friends. I’m proud of myself.

          But I really thought the DOCTOR and i were well suited b/c we got along, I made him laugh his ass off, (a lot) we had good chemistry and 35 years of shared history. We had been so poor for his school years and finally FINALLY we were reaching for the brass ring and BOOM… So he has a great income (you’re welcome, shithead) and I don’t.

          YES I know he also, evidently, had shitty character.

          But I still find myself wondering – about once or twice a month,

          how on earth he could be happier with a less educated, less attractive, less hilarious woman,

          living without me AND our grown kids in his life. We were married 35 years and have not spoken since D day.

          No contact makes sense but it also feels like he died and we didn’t get to have a funeral, and no one brought over food.

          So WHY do I feel =( at times ) = as if he won??

          Sorry to be a downer

          • “No contact makes sense but it also feels like he died and we didn’t get to have a funeral, and no one brought over food.”

            Yes! ^^^ Exactly this! I still feel so traumatised by the sudden, death like exit of XH from my life.

            What CL has written also reads like a conversation with my XH. They really are twisted.

            • Same feelings—it’s like processing a death; but had he actually died; I would get to keep my happy memories.

              • Yes Spinach Newlywed & Distraught

                his continuing to live with his “wife” schmoopie, and HER kid, taints our 35 year marriage which was my entire adult life.

                I don’t even know what was real anymore…

                He chose no contact with me even though we share kids and I NEVER sent angry texts or emails and I never once called him. So HIS choosing no contact was just another inexplicably shitty discard – we have kids together and I’d have to call his brother if one of them got hurt.

                We deserved so much better.

                I don’t mean that I wish him harm when I say this, but I do think death would have been cleaner for me AND our kids…

                This is just ongoing rejection of them and a total discard of me.

                God only knows what mental gymnastics he must do to live with the cognitive dissonance being him, requires.

              • I think many chumps actually feel like being widowed would have been much easier than being cheater on / discarded.. Now we are left with ruined memories and many of us have to have some contact because we have kids together…

            • “Same feelings—it’s like processing a death; but had he actually died; I would get to keep my happy memories.”…..and all my stuff! 😔

              • I’m with you Sisters ! I wake up every morning in a fog, trying to understand what part of the 37 yrs were real and true. And how could I have been so blind to not know who he truly was. I say “was” cause to me he is died.
                The last few year was continual picking fights now make sense after reading this post.

              • This experience is worse than a death. Normally, the dead do not actually decide to die. In our cases, the ex (at some point) made a conscious decision to betray us and blow up our lives. Had he died, I would have received cards, flowers and condolences. Instead, after being the naive chump that I was, all I received were large legal bills. In my case, I actually saved his life by bringing him to the emergency room when he refused to go and ultimately diagnosed with a burst appendix. If I could have a do-over, he would now be dead in the basement!

              • Maybe we should have a “funeral” for the death of our marriage and our life we thought we had?

          • Yep…. count me in. I know in my head no contact is the only way I am able to move forward. Others, even my kids, don’t get it and think that means I’m not strong enough to handle being around him and OWife. And….I keep having conversations in my head ; things I would say to them, outing his lies to The Latest. Sometimes I think my “no contact” just enables him to keep lying. Then I remind myself that his life now and his lies have nothing to do with me.

          • DOCTOR’S1stWife&3Kids

            You do deserve better. The financial sacrifices made were toward a mutual life goal. The reality that the goal wasn’t shared is crushing. They walk away making oodles of money, while we struggle to catch up. I’m also frustrated that because he’s related to my children, I have to be silent about all the evil he’s inflicted. If a stranger blew up my family, they would be in jail.

            I’m pissed that Mrs. Howorker is gleefully spending the money I earned for what would have been a golden future. This is the bitter pill I’m not able to digest–yet. But when I said “she won”, my therapist said, without missing a beat accompanied with a visceral reaction–she didn’t win, she got him!!!!

            • I agree with your therapist. It may be hard to see it right now, but these guys are no prizes and the OW know what they are capable of. I kicked my husband out after discovering he has been cheating with prostitutes for god knows how long. The lying and deception was unbelievable, I still have a hard time believing this is who I was married to, I had no idea. Whoever ends up with him is going to have to dance really hard and pretty and constantly look over her shoulder. He thinks he is a prize but I can’t imagine who else would.

          • Me, too. Separated almost a year. Still have to file because he won’t do anything, The confusion and grief can’t be explained to others.

          • 1stWW3K,

            I have a wonderful friend who went through this stuff 10+ years ago. She has shared a lot with me in terms of how she has been able to process her ‘discard’ and one of the things she did was have a burial ceremony at a local cemetery on snowy afternoon.

            I thought that sounded do-able so I took wedding pictures and headed out to a cemetery close by. It was me and the Canadian geese and lots of headstones. I wandered around the grounds shredding the photos and discretely dropping the itty-bitsy pieces on the ground – to be disintegrated by exposure to weather and maybe a few curious/hungry geese….

            It did something. I can’t say what exactly. No bells and whistles just a deed done. An honest deed because, in truth, the man I was married to does not exist. He was a serial cheater so our entire marriage was a lie.

            I left something there that day. Moving on is just that….moving on.

          • You are speaking directly to how I feel!
            We have so much history….how did this happen?
            It hurts.
            I want meh to be here. And its not.
            I am angry, upset, sad, frustrated and everything else.

        • Oh my gosh, my ex absolutely engineered situations to antagonize me and we would start arguing. Then he would complain about me to his AP’s. I wish I had saved some of his emails, he was so predictable! He’d be away from me and the kids all week in a job he’d taken 4 hours away, at his apartment ( hooking up, having a blast with his AP’s), arrive back in town, and I remember dreading re entry, because he always found something to nitpick about, and we’d start arguing again and I couldn’t wait for Sunday night/Monday morning so he’d leave me in peace. Sometimes he’d have excuses to stay for the weekend, and I loved those weekends. Now I see it as abuse, and his attempt to justify what he was doing. Reading the emails was horribly hurtful, and I made him sit and listen to them read back to him when I found them. “I didn’t mean it, it’s just stuff I said!!!” Ummm, yeah, over and over again for like….5 years? LOLOL…I am sure he is still using all the things he said I was lousy at as talking points for why he is divorced.

    • This happened to me and I did lash out. And, he said all those things. I think he had 2 red marks on him and he told people I busted his head open and blacked his eye. 🙄🙄🙄.

      • I derisively gave XAss a finger thump, and a not very hard one, on his shoulder one day and laughed at him for something really stupid he was doing. This got turned into me constantly thumping him on his head and humiliating him, a constant physical abuse I was giving him – told to the judge with a really really sad face.

        I almost laughed out loud when he said this. And I think the judge was like WTF dude.

  • Twist on this post is a question to CN:

    Years out I am mostly meh about the ex and do have to see him periodically.

    I can be cordial and greet him with pleasantries. After all the lies, crushing divorce and coming to terms with the fact that he sucks, I realize that grandkids will make us be in the same room periodically and I can deal with that.

    The ex is the one that refuses to acknowledge my presence and goes out of his way to ignore me. Hard to do in a room with 3 adults but he does it.

    I won’t give him the satisfaction of trying to engage him in conversation but I don’t get why he cannot be civil. He got her, they’ve been together for 10 years since the divorce.

    What the hell? Is paying me maintenance and getting caught still that important that HE’S angry?

    • “What the hell? Is paying me maintenance and getting caught still that important that HE’S angry?”

      Yes. He is pissed that he has to pay you money. He wanted to get away scot free. Hell, he probably expected YOU to pay HIM.

      He’s dog shit on your shoe. You don’t expect dog shit to say anything, just stink up the place.

      Nod in his direction then carry on being your normal amazing self.

      • So true. Every check arrived with a notation such as “For Survivor’s greed and extortion.” After he took a voluntary leave of absence from his job and demanded that I pay him spousal support.

        I think it’s in the Playbook.

        • I’m glad I’m not the only one with outrageous notations or wicked witch stamps! It just made me smile that I am annoying him every month. Just proves he’s a big baby and will never get to meh.

        • Survivor- mine deliberately refused to find work after he was fired, and his attorney came after me for spousal support. He “magically” found a full time job the week the divorce was final, but purposely took the absolutely lowest paying job he could find, and asked for support again. Despite having made close to 6 figures during the last 5 years of our marriage, the judge would not impune income to him, and I was awarded 330/mo in child support. I know from what my kids tell me ( I don’t ask ) that he is hiding income. Our divorce happened in one state and we have both moved to different states so none of the three states wants the child support collection case. Of course he is behind on support and he knows it will be difficult to enforce. Fortunately, I have busted my ass the past 5 years, changed careers, and now make more than I did at the job I left when we separated. Plus I started my own business which will match my income when I retire at 65 (7 years, just squeaking in my 10 years so I will get medical benefits and a small pension). I provide everything for my younger two kids, and am able to help my older son. And that, my friend, feels better than any revenge. 🙂

    • Yes. Remember, in his twisted mind, he’s everything and you are nothing. That’s why the fact that you got to him so badly that he can’t even speak to you is so satisfying to me 🙂 hope it’s satisfying to you. Enjoy!

    • I have struggled with this too. Why are they so angry? Mine was the vindictive narcissist and I blamed the know Mrs. Howorker for his meanness. How could a man I’ve known since 1983 turn into creature from the dark lagoon. Well…….I just had my light bulb go from dim to white hot.

      It’s THEM! As CL has said, you’ve stopped giving them kibbles. Once you are of no value, they throw you away and move on to their new source. They drain people to feed an endless black hole that will never be satiated. They’re infuriated they have to provide spousal support because they can no longer drive the Porsche–they’re stuck driving the beat-up Bug. They can’t understand that their unhappiness is within themselves, because they thought discarding the mean wife would mean puppies and unicorns. They think the discard was the punishment when it’s actually giving us the victory of freedom. When they realize their still miserable, they can’t look inward for change. It has to be someone else. But you’ve stepped out of the triangle. Let him fume, because you don’t have to go home with him.

      Trust that they suck.

      • “You don’t have to go home with him”
        Pure gold!

        But she does.
        Not so golden,
        A cheater/Narc is a cheater/Narc is a cheater/Narc……

        They never did get a character transplant, just a new piece of ass.
        Let her serve his unending demands, it’s exhausting.
        Enjoy your freedom!
        You earned it!

        • She doesn’t have to go home with him because she isn’t allowed to come anywhere near me, my adult kids and the grandchild!
          I do wonder if he tells her about the visits and events where she cannot come or lies to her too.

          • There you have another reason why he is angry in your presence and cannot be civil to you.
            He is fuming that he is not allowed to bring HER and no doubt faces her wrath and a grand inquisition when he goes home. Nothing about this situation is pleasant for him! There you are being mighty, enjoying freedom and a new life which he is still partially funding and he is stuck stuck stuck with the giant mistake he made! Talk about karma!

            • “There you are being mighty, enjoying freedom and a new life which he is still partially funding and he is stuck stuck stuck with the giant mistake he made! Talk about karma!”

              Love this comment! Just because he and the OW have been together for 10 years doesn’t mean he’s happy. He’s incapable of happiness. And he’s bitter that he can’t bring her around the kids. Good for your kids for drawing that boundary!!!

      • Yep. And many of them are angry because of the exposure of their lack of moral compass and self-control, which, of course, they blame on us Chumps. They blamed us when they cheated, and now they blame us because people with principles don’t like them, and their lives aren’t what they wanted. Gah.

        • This. My ex said just the other day, “you were angry so I became deceitful and selfish; now I’m the one who misses my kids.”

          The real story is that he had a series of “second wives” in Asia for years that he visited on all his business trips while I raised the kids, worked, and kept our home. When I found out, he left me and our middle school kids with no notice but a group text. He sent for his current girlfriend who is 25 years younger than him and moved an hour away from his kids. I was hurt and angry. He barely makes time for his kids and they have never spent the night at his house in 3 years, despite my honest efforts to speak well of him in front of them (for their sakes, not his).

          But my anger made him deceitful? I’m the reason he has almost no relationship with his kids? He’s trying to spin a story that can’t be spun to make him look good. Honestly I think deep down that’s why he moved away. He can only get away with his story if the people don’t know me or what our life was before.

          • My first therapist taught me this valuable lesson: No one ever MAKES us feel or do anything. Emotions are in us. They are natural responses to stimuli that we encounter and experiences that we have. But we can choose how to express those feelings, what we DO about them. So your anger (no doubt about something provocative that he did) can’t MAKE him “deceitful” or “selfish.” Those are character traits in him.

          • “You were angry so I became deceitful and selfish; now I’m the one who misses my kids.”

            Gettingthereslowly, I hope this line alone helps get you there faster! What a sicko!

            You can’t make this shit up – this is from the Advanced Class in Manipulation Techniques. This lesson is about combining the “reverse victim and offender” tactic with some Sad Sausage Shit into one short sentence. Not all con artists get to this level.

            You focused on the insanely stupid (not to mention absurd) first part – how your anger made him deceitful (Hahahaha! – hope you can get to where you can laugh at this too!). But I would call your attention to the part about the kids. Odds are, that’s the biggest lie here. He is most likely incapable of missing his children but he will use your normal ability to bond deeply with your kids to try to elicit sympathy. Can you even imagine moving an hour away from your children? Of course not. You’re normal.

            My ex had me believing for years that he married a girl who was pregnant with another man’s baby (what a hero he is – HA!). The marriage ended when the kid was small and he continued to pay child support (so noble, right? WRONG!). He has no contact with that kid. Only after he cheated did I start to question all kinds of things, and found out that is in fact his own son.

            Your ex probably feels little, or more likely no connection with his own children. But he will try to pretend he does for image management and manipulation purposes. He’s a lying con man and I hope you can see right though his bullshit. And I hope you can one day even laugh at the stupid shit he says.

            • A relative of mind works in, and studies, brain development. She says the brain that can’t mature in a healthy way can be changed somewhat as adult but not completely. If you have a parent who abandons their children their brains are missing whatever it is that allows bonding. It’s painful for the kids but if they are old enough to understand it would probably help them hear just how f’ked their parent really is. It is life long. Oftentimes you will see what looks like the pos attaching to the new OP’s children but it is surface only. They can play at being a father/mother but it is false. It is a relief for them not to have expectations put on them they can never feel. They can do the holidays, the over the top trips, and look like great step parents but none of it requires love, just glitter.

          • The cause-effect flip is one of their favorite moves.

            The years of lies and denigration and assorted abuse finally prompt a loyal chump to stand up, turn around, and step permanently away.

            They will always turn that into the story that the chump is an angry, contemptuous, unforgiving sort.

            Big shrug. Best to let them dizzy themselves into oblivion with the flip. People whose perspectives are worth having see through the faux narratives eventually.

      • “They drain people to feed an endless black hole that will never be satiated.”

        Amen! My motto, said with Transylvanian accent, is, “Don’t feed the vampire.”

        It took me quite along time for me to realize truth means nothing to a narc.

      • Very well said. I was leaning to this explanation but I never took the time to verbalize it. Thank you for doing so. Whether he ever acknowledges me in public or not is truly not my problem anymore. It’s his problem. And now that he married the skank, it’s her problem. He didn’t get a character change when we divorced, he just got a new piece of ass; and now there’s an OW position waiting to be filled. I never played the marriage police, but I’m sure she’s anxious all of the time as she undoubtedly is doing. Now that’s Karma!

    • He’s angry because – cake. Your departure meant he had to move the OWhore into wife position (he preferred her as a side dish). He was then faced with the enormous inconvenience of having to find a new side dish (SO MUCH WORK)!!! How dare you take his cake away.

    • Like many have reported, they continue to be angry if they have been held accountable for any of it. And, whenever they are around you, around people who know, or in a situation that reminds them of what they did, they are irritable about it.

      Otherwise, they have likely created their own little bubble in which to exist with the OW. Mine has. It’s a world that comprises mostly of just the two of them, 1 or 2 fringe friends, and new people who don’t know their history, don’t know me or any of the people who knew us when we were together. It’s like they are undercover in most of their daily life, living this alternate narrative they have created for themselves to justify their “wuv”.

      But you are the constant reality that pokes the bubble. Just your existence does it. Couple that with family members or mutual friends who have principles and won’t tolerate the affair relationship, then they are further aggravated.

      My ex’s family will not discuss the OW at all, even though they are still together two years after leaving me, and I still get invited to family functions. My three sister-in-laws are still very good friends of mine, and I still see my FIL and MIL as my own parents and respect them as such. We do a lot of stuff together on our own time, so I will only attend a full family function when it’s a larger to-do or it involves one of my godchildren. I know he stews. I know he resents that I’m still family and the OW isn’t ever allowed to be talked about. So, I get the brunt of that resentment.

      Rebecca – Their dream didn’t pan out as it seemed in their fantasyland, so they blame us for not having helped them pave their yellow-brick road. They still blame us rather than acknowledge that how they started this so-called “love” relationship was wrong and that they don’t live in a world where they get everything they want. Emotional immaturity. And, I guess it’s all our fault in their minds.

      As some have mentioned, there is punishment in the fact that they have to go home with each other. I have no doubt at all that any affair relationships that last, do so out of dependency and pride. They don’t want to have gone through the break-up of marriages only to have that relationship fail, so they will do whatever to hang on to it in order to “prove” it was worth all the suffering. And, they are not embroiled in what is a healthy, mature love. It’s an infatuation or limerance that is based on fixes, euphoria and desperation. Also, most cheaters can’t bear to be alone, which is why they couldn’t leave their marriages without the courage a Plan B affair partner provided them. And most people who are willing to be an OW or OM are also dependent sorts who would rather settle on a married person who lovebombs them, than stay alone with dignity.

      You stand proud. You have every right to be where you are, surrounded by good people, enjoying yourself. If your ex can’t handle the temperature, then he needs to get out of the tub.

  • I remember a while ago I was searching for no contact videos on YouTube. One comment really triggered me at first but then it gave me some relief, weirdly. I realised that cheaters/abusers just don’t understand.

    The comment went like this: so I have been married to my wife for 45 years, she has recently filed for divorce. For all these years I have been providing financially, I admit I was a dog and slept with any ho (sorry, still quoting!) that let me but why is my wife no contact with me now? How to make her change her mind and realise she is destroying our lives?

    I hope the wife discovered CL and is rocking her new life here with us!

    • Yep. That’s what I finally realized too. They’re sociopaths. They will never understand why normal people react the way normal people do to things like betrayal, adultery, and lying. They truly cannot relate to the pain caused by their actions. In some way they could be considered autistic. When my sons told me that their dad was sorry for the things he did, I said, “No he isn’t. He may say he’s sorry, but he has no concept of what it is to hurt.” And he doesn’t. When I finally realized that I (essentially) had an alien for a husband, i.e., someone who has no heart, no empathy, and never will have those qualities, I was able to let it go. Is it his fault that he has a hole where his heart should be? Is it his fault that his brain’s synapses don’t fire in the same way? Who knows? That’s a question that I really don’t care to ask because the answer might mean that I have to feel deep pity and sorrow for the dick. Let the philosophers and the Esther Perels have a field day arguing for the sad sausages in the world. And they will continue to sell books to all the Amazon Chumps like me when I was trying to save my marriage. Evil will not seize to exist, it just finds another venue. The dick and his skank are not my problem anymore. I will have no more dicks in my life.

  • “Chumps love to tilt at the mindfuck windmill, armed with reason and evidence”

    This applies to tax season as well.

    Some people simply refuse to look at the spreadsheets, pie charts, line graphs, etc. and contribute more money to their retirement account when they can afford to do so. Not even to capture the match.

    Save your breath when someone is clearly not interested in listening, learning or changing their behavior. Even/especially when it will directly benefit them in the short and long-term.

    • On a level he would rather deny, he knows that he’s a POS. Seeing you is a reminder that he’s not this great guy he portrays to the world. Image management. You are in the elite group who knows exactly what he is, and he knows it too. Avoiding makes it easier to keep up pretenses.

      • ^^^ This, exactly. I’ve had to endure several family events where the ex had to be present. A couple hours before our daughter’s wedding, I told him privately that there would be no pictures of just the two of us, we would not be dancing together, and that he was not to touch me, that he would not be using me for an image management opportunity. Those were the only words I spoke to him and the only contact we had during the entire event. I had a great time!

        These freaks want to destroy us and their families, but don’t want outsiders to know a thing so they can carry on the good guy image.

        I Survived A Sociopath

        • Wow. Brave. I do have an upcoming DD wedding. I will have to make my position known rather than put my daughter in the middle. Thank you for the support. Mighty.

  • Its true,
    He’s my ex now, apart for nearly 7 years
    He would get phone calls, at 2am he would say I can’t come and meet you, he says he was talking to his alarm, one xnas day, he received 28 phone calls, he then asked me if he could go out, he probably was trying to ask for my permission to meet her, God knows what they had arranged. Apparently sti, was cystitis, given antibiotics used for sti, not cystitis,
    He pretended to commit suicide.
    My heart stopped during gallbladder removal surgery, I wasn’t supposed to leave the house for 2 weeks, he fucked off with ow, wouldn’t help with the kids. Oldest got a standing ovation from physics teacher, he couldn’t congratulate her.
    He’s a piece of shit
    I have a feeling the ow is on this site I would say to them you both should be ashamed of yourselves

  • My husband left me after 45 years of marriage for a sales representative for our company. Looks like she sold more than roofing material… He left me a dear john letter, then stupid me, I let him come back since he “realized his mistake”, As soon as i left town to visit my mother, he left again, this time he sent me a text message. I dont know if he has been cheating on me forever, or if this was his first, We are both in our 60’s, and he has moved into her house…Doesnt want to talk to me until I can be civil…I am now reading Leave a Cheater, gain a life, and it is helping me immensely… Everything is applying to my situation… He wants to be “friends” so we can be around the grandchildren at the same time…I am still trying to catch my breath, always thought he was one of the “good guys” but now i’m not sure if they really exist

    • Dear sweet Linda (( hugs ))

      I honestly don’t believe they leave you for their first affair . Imagine how lucky you would have to be the first time you ever cheat its with the love of your life and will throw everything away for it .

      I only know the 1 my ex left me for but looking back i can pretty much bet my months pay its not his first rodeo .

      That’s good he doesn’t want to talk to you get your ducks lined up and get out of that abusive marriage .
      Why would he even think you should be civil to him ? What he breaks your heart , breaks you marriage , your home , your security and you should be nice to him – ha ha ha what a clown he is .

      You are only in your 60’s you’ve got a LOT of life to live yet . Get away from him with the best settlement you can

      Read the archives also there is a wealth of knowledge in these gems .
      Look after yourself xx

      • I’m 68. Divorced and then rebounded into a relationship with a Jackass cheater. My life right now is better than it’s ever been.

        I hope you have a REALLY good lawyer and get all of the financial resources you need to live a comfortable life. It might be worth selling the house and downsizing to something smaller and less expensive so you have both an easy place to maintain and maybe some extra cash in your account when all is said and done. Or keep the big family house, make a private suite for you and let one of the kids move his or her family in. There are so many ways to organize a great life. My BFF lives with her daughter half a year and is buying a summer place! Your new life has so many possibilities!

        And you don’t need to be “civil” with a man who blows up your life. It’s far better to be “no contact” with him until you get back on your feet emotionally, financially and socially. The time will come when you are at Meh. I get along fine with my XH the substance abuser (whose “mistress” is whiskey and various other substances) but Jackass? I hope to hell I never see him again.

    • Dear Linda,

      Im so sorry this happened to you and this is the place to bring this crap, but if your divorce is not yet final you may want to change your identity here to something more private. No use tipping your cards in a place he could find you.

      CL has said that after all the stories she has read, she now believes that serial cheating is likely more common that any of us realize it right when we learn of a cheating episode. I have come to agree…I caught my Cheater and later wreckonciled but after he died, I learned that he had cheated all along.

      • I, too, agree that you may wish to write CL to ask her to change your screen name (unless that is a screen name!).

        It is okay to be divorced and in your 60s. Several of us are there. Life does get better, though it’s really hard to think that it will after you’ve been partnered for so long. In my case, we were married nearly 20 years when the divorce was finalized, but had been together for about a decade before that.

        I was convinced that CheaterX was one of the good guys, too. However, in retrospect I would say that there was at least one other affair in his background.

    • Dearest Linda, I discovered my husband’s affair after 42 years of marriage. I was 63. I had been in a sexless/loveless marriage for 10 years, after my husband’s prostate surgery. The betrayal was so immense.’…He never told me when he recovered his (medically enhanced) sexual function. Instead he continued to play the sad, depressed aging male around me, while he rekindled a romance with an old high school girlfriend. My function was to purely provide a paycheck, clean his house, cook his meals and run our rental business. He even had my driving him to the airport when he flew home to “visit his brother with cancer” (really see the AP).

      My advice to you in 100% seriousness is to get in this order: 1) a great divorce attorney 2) a great gynecologist who specializes in post menopausal women 3) a great plastic surgeon. Botox and an eye lift did way more for me than counseling. Spend some time and money on yourself. There is life, fun and a new life after divorce, even at our age.

      • I love this comment. I too was the only one working, cleaning, and cooking – while he ran up a credit card with bogus herbal erectile remedies which of course he only needed “to masturbate.” Right.

        Self care is everything, and a little botox goes a long way! I’m also doing WW and working out. I have so much more room for myself now that him not having to live his life too.

    • Welcome Linda sorry that your circumstances bring you here. Also please bear in mind that while you are putting yourself through the wringer trying to make him see sense and communicate with you, you are also distracted. Take pause stop trying and co duly with lawyers and your business/personal accountants. Dude could be moving money around draining accounts and generally up to no good financially as well. Get your assets frozen take stock run credit checks and don’t try to negotiate with terrorists. All the best to you.

    • Oh Linda, read that book. Then grab a highlighter and really read that book. He is a cheater. Divorce him. You still have time to have a sweet life without a fuckwit to play with your mind. Linda, you do not have to be friendly. Fuck that. He isn’t your friend. He ended your forty five year marriage with a goddamn text? That is so cruel and abusive. He is an abuser. Adultery is abuse. Leave him and have a better life. Get you a kickass therapist and a “pitbull of a lawyer“. Then make a plan. Don’t tell him anything. Time to “Plot and Plan”. File first and dump this abuser. Don’t be “nice”, he wasn’t nice to you. You are going to have the last laugh here.

    • Linda, I feel your pain, that tightness across your chest. It’s the shock that you have been duped by a man wearing the Mr Good guy mask. That’s a man who was well brought up, was taught to be courteous and show respect etc, but their actual character is shallow. They would never have your back if you needed them in your corner!!

      They want to be friends as they probably do miss the comfort blanket of their pal, they did enjoy your company and probably recognised you were a good, kind and decent person, but they wanted something more exciting- that is the fantasy – they don’t realise that the shiny new relationship also becomes familiar after a few years. That’s a shallow selfish person, they are blaming you for their need for more excitement, love affection whatever it is that they are lacking. They fail to realise that they should have been responsible for generating these feelings themselves through the way in which they lived their life with you!! They’ll be back here again – feeling that someone else is to blame for what they are missing.

      Other people can make us miserable but we make ourselves happy based on how we live our life!

      Bad apples can look lovely before you bite into them!! Be strong, his actions are callous, sounds like you are better without him, you will realise this in time.

  • Perfect example(within the 1st month). ME. “I’m pissed off OM gets to live under my roof, sleep in my bed, sit on my sofa watching my tv, and his fat idle arse shits on my toilet while I still pay the mortgage”
    HER. “You are obsessed with that man. It’s not healthy”.

    • Wayne, she’s so delusional it’s actually funny. You are right – a perfect example! From this one answer you see there’s absolutely nothing in there.
      You are lucky you got out

    • Two time chump here. First cheater xH of 12yrs stranded me and our 4yr old and moved 2k miles cross country to be with a rich barfly. Quit his job so no more health insurance. Found out shortly there after that the lump I had found in my breast (at 36) turned out to be cancer. When I tried pleading to his sense of humanity and as the mother of his only child to help us relocate closer to family and friends (he had moved us 600+ miles to take a radio gig a few months earlier) so I could get their support while undergoing cancer treatment…
      HIM: “Its not my fault you have bad genes!”

      That was 17 yrs ago. I can 😂 (meh) now cause the karma bus trampled him but good.

    • Ah, the “health” angle.

      I was subject to this attempted mindfuck CONSTANTLY during co-habitation — how “unhealthy” I was being by enforcing boundaries, gray-rocking my communications, not engaging in her bullshit.

  • I sure remember the mindfuckery. When we decided we would try to work on our marriage. I would ask him questions. Why did you cheat? Dud you ever feel guilty? You said she was so much more fun than me. Please explain what kind of fun she liked to have. Why did you pick her she sure isn’t attractive? I asked countless questions. His response it is a weekend. I don’t want my weekend ruined by hashing this up. Or I have to work tomorrow I don’t want to get upset before work. I realized he never was going to answer my questions. I knew our marriage was over. They cheat on you blow apart your life. And refuse to answer questions and blame you. Cheaters suck.

  • There is nothing fair about being cheated on, or having marital assets used to fund the cheating. There is nothing fair when child support is not paid, or chronically late. There is nothing fair when the fuckwit moves on to the next, and the next, and doesn’t seem to suffer consequences. Basically when you divorce them and go low or no contact, you take away resources. They believe they are entitled to all resources. When you do not agree to provide the marriage image, provide funds for misbehavior, or act like they are a nice person, you have taken away the image they want to present to the children, family, friends, and the next new person/thing they desire.

    You “hostility” is the response to their criminal behavior. Are you supposed to be nice and accommodating to someone who lied to you and robbed you, and lied about things that you have evidence happened? Would you be expected to be nice to someone who mugged you, or stole your car, or knocked you down and broke your arm because they were in a hurry to get to the next kibble source?

    They are the ones who are not logical, and goading you is one of their favorite sports. When you react, they can say “See, she still cares. I have the power to hurt. I am the important one.” When you basically ignore them, they don’t feel powerful or important, Isn’t there a phrase about living well being the best revenge? Another useful one is not my circus, not my monkey.

    Indifference is a powerful thing. It’s peaceful, too. Life is better without maintaining a disrupter in your midst. Just don’t expect anything from them, and you won’t end up disappointed.

    • Amazing comment Portia. So helpful to reframe it in terms of depriving the cheaters of resources. That makes going gray rock less defensive as a strategy and so much more purposeful. Thank you!

  • My ex actually had the nerve to not only say he was surprised at how poorly I took the discovery of his cheating with a mutual best friend for six fucking years including while I was pregnant, but that he was even more surprised that we couldn’t be friends afterward. The first declaration left me absolutely gob smacked while the second??? I instantly came to the realization that he was far more delusional than I’ve ever given him credit for and apparently also how, over the course of the last several years during his affair,he truly stopped knowing what sort of person I was at all. We had discussed cheating numerous times in the past as an abstract relationship issue, and I made sure he knew that while it really took a lot to really piss me off, cheating was one of the worst things anyone could do to someone else. My level of disgust for that particular act was no secret. And yet he was surprised when I applied a complete scorched earth policy toward him and the OW. especially after such declarative gems as “you know, the two of you are more alike than you realize. “And “I don’t see why you’re being so hostile about this. I can’t believe you call the lawyer. There’s no need for that. “

  • This reminds me of this Dr. Phil episode where a woman’s sister cheated with her husband. The sister/whore kept saying to her Chump Sister, “YOU JUST NEED TO GET OVER IT!!!”

    Fast forward a few years later-and my STBXH is saying that to me when I wouldn’t back down about demanding a divorce after I found out about the latest affair.

    One and a half years out and I’m getting MUCH better at not engaging the stupid. He texted me the other day that “some people in your camp are telling me you don’t want to let me go. I ask you respectfully to please let me go.”

    First-if ANYONE in MY ‘camp’ is talking to you at all-they aren’t in MY ‘camp.’

    Second-moving out almost 2 years ago, buying my own place and trying to ignore you as much as possible-isn’t what a person does who “won’t let you go.”

    They will bend and twist anything and everything in order to make it what they want.

    Absolute proof that these assholes don’t live in any other reality but there own…

    • I don’t know your situation, but there is a possibility someone in “your camp” had a conversation with him and is still actually in your camp. Maybe it went something like this, “StrongerNow won’t let me come to the xxx with you guys. Do you think it’s ok if I go?” Friend from you camp, “No.” Translation by cheater: “The people in your camp say that you said I can’t go to xxxx.” Just a thought… it depends on the tightness of your camp. My ex tried to hire our handyman for his new place and he refused to do any work for him. And I didn’t even know he was in my camp!

      • Hah! Good story!

        I had some contractors do some work on the house I bought. At that time, the divorce was finalized but I hadn’t received the settlement money. Once I received it, I had 45 days to move out of the marital home. The home I bought was definitely a fixer upper, and no way would I have been able to move in.

        CheaterX was threatening to bring Schmoopie in two weeks prior to the time I was leaving. He never did, mostly because I let him know that the divorce decree said I had a right to the marital home until X date.

        I told my contractors this. They asked if I’d be okay if they dropped by to have a “discussion” with CheaterX.

      • Madkatie63-I see what you mean! I didn’t type it correctly-it wasn’t about allowing my ex to go somewhere-he was trying to tell me that he thinks I haven’t moved on from him and that I don’t want to give him a divorce.

        I don’t know if it was the right thing to do-but any of our mutual friends who decided to stay friends with him-I have cut out of my life.

        I know that if I had a friend whom I knew his/her spouse had cheated-I wouldn’t stay friends with the cheater.

        I LOVE that you and kb’s handymen are loyal!!! I have one as well who refuses to do anything for my ex and won’t even return his calls!

        It’s crazy that someone we loved so strongly could treat us so poorly-yet-practical strangers want to protect us and have our backs….

  • I swear to God when he decided he was leaving, and that it had nothing to do with his new friendship (lol), one of the many reasons for why it was so sudden and had to be right now was ” if I dont do this right now, we will end up hating each other and I don’t want that”.
    I said he was delusional bc leaving the way he was with no warning, no real reason, and after 1.5 years seeing a MC and telling me everything was good – I sure as hell was going to hate him bc he lied to me and was 100% having an affair.
    He said at least he wouldnt hate me then, I told him he shouldnt be so sure of that.

    Fast forward 1 month and i am getting the treatment above. Why can t we be civil? Why cant we do a collaborative divorce? Why cant we coparent and do “nesting”? Why am I insisting on a very comprehensive parenting plan?

    Fast forward 2 years….he hates me. He hates that I refuse to engage with any attempt to draw me into conflict. He hated that I flat dont respond to communication unless I absolutely have to. He hates that I can sit in a doctor’s office with him and our daughter and radiate love and comfort and attention to her while giving him nothing. Not hate, not annoyance, not sadness, just pure indifference. He hates me so much he tries to find the pettiest crap to be a dick about: suddenly refusing to use the OFW calendar, paying 50% of swim practice. I address it once and then I just move on. I say what needs to be said and then I refuse to discuss more. Oay me, dont pay me, I dont care, the money isnt worth my peace

    • The “logic” is stunning. He leaves you (provoking hatred) so you won’t hate each other?

      Yep. Having an affair and abandoning your partner fosters enduring love and goodwill!

      Truth and Stupid just cannot be married.

      😩

      • But he wasnt having an affair!!!! They were just friends who started texting 100s of times a day while both were in london for work for a month!!!!!!
        He had been unhappy for awhile, even before we had our daughter!!!!!
        He couldn’t bear the pain one more moment and if stayed and tried we would just hate each other.
        My God the lies these freaks actually convince themselves to believe….I actually feel a little bad for him. I know when he has to be around me and I am being my normal self and looking good and just being ok in general those lies in his head are harder for him to hold onto

        • I saw Uncut Gems last night. I trip into the life and mind of a liar cheater thief. It was difficult to sit still and watch the movie; the chaos was palpable. I was SO glad for my boring life after the movie ended.

      • haha…yep, the closest my STBXw came

        to explaining her choice to carry on multiple simultaneous affairs was

        “I was trying to not cause pain!”

        i told her my lawyer was standing by

        to hear more about her unique pain-saving strategies

        they really are just deranged

    • Why can’t we be civil is Narc code for. Why can’t we do it my way, with little to no consequences? You continue to be of use and I have fun and look good.

      • “I want what I want. And what I want will never be what you want. Just because it has to be my way, not your way, even if your way would be, theoretically, acceptable.”

        • Yes, “I want what I want, particularly because I know that you don’t want it, and I must have my way just for the satisfaction of you not having yours.” Narcs are lovely like that.

    • “I address it once and then I just move on. I say what needs to be said and then I refuse to discuss more. Okay me, don’t pay me, I don’t care, the money isn’t worth my peace.”

      Isn’t this a great feeling? I almost feel like celebrating every time I catch myself implementing this. I go into almost every financial issue (or coverage, for that matter) with the mindset of being prepared to cover it all myself, because I never know when KK will honor it or when she’ll decide to start throwing insults, calling names, or making threats.

  • I agree. She told me that I was “scary” when angry and she did not feel “emotionally safe” discussing the issues with me. (For the record, I am female, significantly smaller and weaker than she is, only yelled and once threw an empty pop can on the ground, but did nothing aggressive toward her).

    And after catching her with yet another. I have unleashed the consequences. Unfortunately, they will mostly fall on me. I earned and invested all of the money, and now I am about to lose half of everything I worked so hard for. It would be fair if she had been responsible for household labor, but she rarely lifted a finger.

    I’m also 48 and starting over is going to be extremely hard (easier for her at 40). And she’s already seemed to have no trouble finding new sources of narcissistic supply (i.e. ego kibbles). I put her through nursing school and she has done extremely well – so work is a new source of supply. She also seems to have no trouble finding one-night friends. These new sources haven’t been picking up her garbage, doing her dishes and laundry for 14 years, so they are much more enthusiastic about giving the kibbles.

    I am trying not to untangle the skein. But good god, after 14 years, I really didn’t see this coming. I think the nursing degree plus extreme weight loss (a surgery I paid for). Her mid-low narcissism soared to new heights. I can get over her, I just don’t know how I can ever get over feeling like such an idiot.

    • YOU aren’t the idiot. When someone is an expert liar, THEY are the idiots.

      Trusting isn’t a character defect. Lying and having affairs are.

    • Erasure I know it sucks I was the responsible one in our relationship saved my money and looked after the house and kid and cheater pushed his money up against the wall on toys and good times. Earned well but no savings. You have all the life skills though and I bet without you to prop her up she’s gonna be the same. I don’t think she’s gonna suddenly adult especially if as you say she’s on a tear and hasn’t secured someone to do the adulting for her. Give yourself time and realise 48 is still hella young (I am a similar age) and there’s still time for recovery, especially building on the half you still have (I know, she doesn’t deserve any of it) You sound like a catch, and will be for the right person in the future All the best.

      • Thanks for the kind words, Stig. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, between what she’ll get from me, and a substantial down payment on a house that her parents are providing (they are now doing some of the adulting for her), it feels like she’s being rewarded.

        But I am trying to remember that I have what matters – an amazing support network. It’s made up of people who deeply care about me and are honest (sometimes brutally 😊). They get me through the dark times and make me a better person. They know they can expect the same from me.

        She is going to be left with a life of enablers, kibble suppliers, and stooges. She’s incapable of anything real and reciprocal. And that’s just sad.

        • No, her parents are enabling her. And that never works out well. That gravy train will come to a halt at some point and she will have no inner resources to draw on. Think of the kids whose parents do EVERYTHING for them and then the kids “fail to launch” into the world because they have no life skills.

          • Yeah, unfortunately, by taking care of all her needs for so long, I also enabled the launch failure. I am working on taking responsibility (but not beating myself up) for that.

        • Sounds to me like you have your head on right. Good for you! And congratulations on having such a great network of support. It’s much harder when you have to navigate the mindfuck on your own. Stop untangling the skein. And 48 is so, so young (I was 55 when I was discarded after 30 years of marriage). Don’t worry about your age. Once you’re completely free you’ll realize just how young you are and that you have the rest of your life not dealing with a fuckwit anymore. Blessings to you.

        • Ah bugger, I hate it when enablers act as consequence-blockers and They Don’t Get What’s Coming. Glad to hear you have such awesome support in your life, and so it should be, awesome attracts awesome (most of the time). Yes, that’s the ironic thing, Chumps see it for the sad situation it is for the Cheater, living in their comfortable world of delusion, even when it’s the Chump that suffers. So sorry you are having to live this.

    • She sounds like she took several pages from my ex’s book. He also told me I was scary when I was mad and acted as if I might hurt him when I tore up our wedding picture and threw the piece at him (he’s 6’3″ and 230 pounds and I’m a 5’3″ average-sized woman). I think that CL may have been listening in on some of our early conversations because I do believe “You sociopathic mother-fucker” may have been uttered by me. He also seemed to transform from mid-low to full-fledged narc when he started making money and gaining power at work. I thought we were supposed to look inward in the marriage when things got tough or the other person was being difficult and try to fix things. He, on the other hand, tossed out, “Marriage shouldn’t be work. I work all day and I don’t want to work at home, too.” Good luck with that.

      • Madkatie, so ridiculous. I’m sorry.

        It is interesting that you had such a similar experience. Even though I previously understood that narcissism occurred in degrees, I had assumed that narcs were relatively fixed in their place on the scale for life. I understand now that if they are lower end, but fed enough ego kibble from whatever sources they can grow into true monsters. (Feed me, Seymour!)

        Because my sbtx was working nights we had become somewhat disconnected. I saw it as another sacrifice to be made in furthering her career and was also making efforts to find time to be together. But she apparently “didn’t want to bother me about her increasing sexual needs” and so she went out on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve to find people to fuck (I thought she had been called into work).

        So, yeah, it really is all about the narcissistic supply. I just couldn’t keep the monster fed. She’ll probably find some people who can for awhile, but it will be damn hard to keep up.

        • Please don’t worry about her ‘keeping the monster fed’. She has a character flaw. If you worry about it, you will feel worse and worse and continue to doubt yourself. Why? Because life is unfair and she will more than likely continue to do the crap she does. Karma truly is finding peace in yourself and recognizing your value, your blessings, and that you have loving people in your life that make it all worthwhile. She will more than likely get uglier and uglier (inside) and resent you because you will be happy and at peace. Blessings to you.

          • Thanks.

            I was more just making an observation about how her monster might go hungry, rather than worrying about it. I am definitely making the steps needed to make sure that it is not my problem and I know nothing about it.

    • I’m sorry she treated you that way. I heard this morning something profound. You can be extremely rich when you have great character- but broke; or extremely rich in money but no character. I’d rather have given love and loyalty then ever use and abuse another soul. Just remember that YOU were the loving, kind soul that helped her. She will always be a miserable user. These 2 people can not exist together.You deserve peace of mind and emotional security in your life. Some day (hopefully soon) you will trust that she sucks! Xo sweet

    • Erasure
      I paid for bariatric surgery for LPN xw. This was before discovery which followed suit after dropping 100#. They might loose the weight but the skin remains.
      I googled divorce rate for bariatric patients. 75-90%
      There’s a failure rate also. Many women who undergo the surgery cannot find the discipline-a few years in, to maintain their diet, exercise and minerals supplementation required. They end Up hefty Again.

      • Yeah, she initially didn’t lose much after the surgery because of the lack of discipline. But now that she’s a critical care nurse, she essentially exercises 36 hours a week and is often too busy to eat.

        She’s definitely able to attract people that wouldn’t have given her a second look when she was 375 pounds. She just apparently can’t say no to any of them…

    • Erasure,
      I was (am) of a similar age. It doesn’t matter really, life is shorter for others.

      Sounds like your getting going. I remember feeling like xw is getting rewarded. Xw will also have her mom’s inheritance. Felt like a kick.

      Lots advice given here, so I’ll just say from further along and heading well to Meh, it gets better. REAL love is out there and you’ll be rewarded with that. Might not come as expected or when wanted, but that is your reward.

      XW will never really feel that – not like I can and I n-e-v-e-r could have provided that.

      Keep going.

      • Thank you. ❤️

        I’m just five weeks past D-day, but I feel like the Chump Lady and the Chump Nation have allowed me to move ahead months of where I would have been otherwise. So, I am grateful for that too.

    • Erasure…I put my ex-husband through an entire university degree the last few years of our marriage. He was already 40, had been chipping away at a degree part-time, when I encouraged him to go back full-time and get it done. I was making enough to cover everything for three years, if we lived simply and if he kept enough work going on the side to equal his tuition. What man gets a second chance at life like that?

      Half way through that degree, he started to stray. Stayed for a year after to secure his job and put me through a “pick me” dance for the last 13 months after discovering his “friend,” who I believed was someone he had just met and nothing serious had happened yet. No she’s already been around for about eight months by then.

      Now he tells people that he put himself through school. Figures he covered tuition (which he actually didn’t his last year), so he can legit claim that I had nothing to do with it. Yeah, sure buddy.

      Was I a sucker for doing it all? Do I regret it? I did, but now I don’t.

      You putting her through school shows that you were an amazingly supportive husband. Don’t regret that. You loved your wife and wanted good things for her. Don’t regret that you are someone capable of that level of emotion and support. You’ve made it possible to earn a better living, thus making her more financially independent. Imagine what you might have had to dish out to support her otherwise. Don’t regret saving yourself years of that. No doubt people know what you did for her and wonder how she could have cheated on you after that. Win for you.

      You were not a sucker. You were mighty and still are because you continue to get to be you.

  • MY insanity is expecting sanity, understanding, truth, etc from someone who has proven to me that they are constitutionally incapable of it.

    Teaching pigs to sing is a more productive endeavor.

    In some religious disciplines it is believed we are assigned a finite number of breaths when we are born. I am hedging my bets and not wasting any more of mine on a proven traitor.

    • “MY insanity is expecting sanity, understanding, truth, etc from someone who has proven to me that they are constitutionally incapable of it.”

      I think I finally have gotten over this. I used to do this way too often. At first I felt guilty for always expecting every interaction with my ex-wife to be some sort of sinister plan of hers. However, I can say that it has resulted in no longer being hurt when the other shoe finally drops. In fact it’s been eye opening. Sooner or later there’s usually a moment of dawning recognition where I think “ohhhh…there’s the reason why she did that”. It’s a lot better feeling than “I can’t believe she is pulling this crap again after everything she’s put me through”.

      • I totally get this! Everything makes me suspect a sinister plan. I spin and wonder what it is, I put together pieces. Especially when I recognize certain manipulative language patterns. Of course, I sometimes put the pieces together wrong and imagine one sinister plan when it was something else. Sometimes ignore manipulative language only to discover the sinister plan later. Who knows what is going on? Just something. I may not be right, but I HAVE A RIGHT to suspect everything now.

  • Perfect example of how they charge the narrative , blame shift and attempt to manipulate you through your emotional investment . Not worth talking to them , deceit is their medium they have their “black belts ” in cruel and dishonesty .

  • Apologies for hijacking this thread for a minute, but I ‘m hoping that the hive mind of CN can help me troubleshoot an issue I’m having with my XH (which is tangentially related to mindfuckery and IFTUYH): I’ve been divorced for a little over a year–divorce was prompted by his 18-month affair, but there were a host of other issues in our marriage related to his inability to keep a job/be a responsible adult that will be familiar to many people here. I have two kids, 15 and 11, and primary custody. My XH officially moved out of the house about 9 months ago, but has struggled to keep a roof over his head and is essentially homeless (except for when he’s able to wrangle a pity fuck out of his AP, who back-burnered him when he made it clear he intended to move in with her after our divorce was final … relationships are not nearly as exciting without triangulation, apparently).

    A couple of months ago, I discovered that he was letting himself into my house while I was at work/kids at school, and chilling out: Netflix, food in the fridge, computer, naps. I changed the locks, and gave one key to my 15 YO daughter (who is aware that her father is a deadbeat, although she doesn’t know all the grisly details); I have the only other key. I told my daughter not to give the key to anyone, including her dad. About 4 weeks later, I came home from work only to discover that my XH had been in the house (his MO is pretty recognizable). I checked around and realized he had unlocked a window when he came by that morning to pick my son up for school–he came in through the window. I confronted him, and told him that if he tried it again I’d call the cops. Also began checking all window locks every morning before leaving for work. Last week, I came home and discovered, again, that he’d been in the house during the day. All windows were locked, so I think he must have made a copy of my daughter’s key. My XH, of course, denies all of this–he’s never been in the house, I left lights on and forgot to turn them off, ate food I don’t remember eating, mindfuckery, gaslighting, yadda yadda. I could change the locks again, but TBH I don’t want to get into an endless (and expensive) cycle of changing the locks every time he manages to make a copy of the key. I’d love to get the police involved, but I have no physical proof that he’s been there. I’m thinking I could record footage on a spy camera and use it to file charges, but am also wondering if there’s an approach I haven’t considered that requires less investment (of time, $$, emotion) from me.

    I fully admit that after years of a co-dependent and unhappy marriage my ability to accurately assess situations involving my XH and identify appropriate solutions is impaired (I have a therapist, I’m working on it). That said: we’re divorced. He got his freedom and his schmoopie (sort of). No mas. Has anyone out there been in a similar situation? Any advice?

      • Absolutely call the police. It’s cheap (free) and it will frighten him. It also gives you the added bonus of some empathy from some professional men. I was surprised by how touched I was when some detectives were outraged on my behalf by my ex’s behavior and seemed super excited to catch him. Truly, I had tears in my eyes. Validation can come from unexpected places. Up until that point all of my validation came from my therapist and women friends. It’s powerful to see men slack jawed when you tell them the story and immediately want to help you.
        Your ex thinks he’s entitled to come into your house. And he was entitled to whatever he wanted when you were married; that’s the beauty of divorce – legal power!

        • I agree with how empowering it was to share my story with some men. Their immediate response in calling my husband abusive, or saying “you deserve better,” or saying “I would have been out of there at that” or saying, “our usually peaceful-seeming group of siblings will become fire-eyed and angry as we circle to protect you.”—those quick reactions from men meant a lot to me and helped me realize that my experiences really were abusive. My own husband had manipulated me so much for so many years that I had internalized that I did not matter, that all marriages were this way, that other people would naturally see I deserved his bad treatment.

    • Get the SimpliSafe security system.

      https://simplisafe.com/

      It’s worth the couple hundred bucks and there is NO reason not to believe that he hasn’t made and passed out still more copies of the key to his homeless buddies.

      It is YOUR home – not his – and you need to make it clear to your kids that they are not to give out the code to anyone. Under any circumstances whatsoever (you can change the codes frequently).

    • I’m mean. I would also get some SabreRed, take some time off of work/work from home (but not tell my kids), drive my car somewhere else, walk back in time to arrive AFTER the kids have left but BEFORE asshole could return, lock the doors and wait for him to show up.

      Hit him with the spray, call the cops.

      It won’t hurt him and the gel makes it really clear who entered the house without permission.

      https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/runner-pepper-gel-adjustable-hand-strap

      • This sounds good. I would also change the door lock to a digital one. You can change the codes as often as you need to and no keys needed.

    • I live in a very small town. The police are happy to watch for this sort of criminal activity. Could you drop by the police station and tell them he is breaking and entering? Do you have a nosy neighbor? Tell your neighbors. Let them call the police when he shows up. There are YouTube tutorials about changing locks on a door. Could you do that or have the locks changed again. If you have an old cell phone not in use it can be used as a spy camera. Again, YouTube has tutorials. Get ahead of this. This is dangerous. You do not know who has access to your home. Your safety and the safety of your children is worth the money spent.

    • Install a simple, inexpensive “spy camera”.
      Send him a text or email he will need to respond too that notifies him that he is not to enter your home. When he shows up on the recorded video call the police.
      Sometimes consequences are required.

      • You should also check to make sure HE hasn’t installed a spy camera so that he can secretly watch you in your home.

    • In addition to all the advice you’ve gotten—–you don’t need to change the locks—-just have the cylinders inside them re-keyed. FAR cheaper, same result. 🙂

    • Call the police and file a report. This is wholly unacceptable. My rotten husband was essentially homeless since I asked him to move out a year ago. Wouldn’t get a job. Or couldn’t keep a job. In September he broke into my house and took our son’s xBox, which he pawned. I called the police. He was arrested 10 days later and charged with felony residential burglary. Mandatory 4 to 15 years in prison if he’s convicted. My kids are roughly the same age as yours. 14 and 11. They are afraid now because their dad broke into the house. It’s a mindfuck because it destroys your safety. Home is supposed to be your shelter from the storm and chaos. He is violating your space with no repercussions. Get an order of protection if you don’t want to call the police, but honestly, he could escalate. My husband attempted to contact me after the break in, I let him for about a week and then shut him down by reporting him to the State’s attorneys who are prosecuting his case. Absolutely no contact with him now for 4 months. Very nice.

    • Call the police, file a report and security cameras are quite reasonable these days. It is a matter of time before he steals valuables (if he hasn’t already) or as someone stated allows other derelicts access to your home. Since he has a phobia holding down a job I bet he is pretending to work and using your house to hang out. Oh and also speak to your neighbors they can keep watch and they may have cameras that have captured your ex breaking in.

    • My brother has the Ring system at his front door. Boy, that camera can see everything. I highly recommend it, knowing that all you need is one time for him to enter your house and you’ll have a case against him. Good luck.

      PS Mine still won’t move out. Luckily, he is NYC during the week.

    • Thanks so much, everyone! I knew CN was the right place to come for practical advice (that honestly I probably should have thought of myself). CN is 1000% a godsend, for this kind of stuff and just emotional support in general. I think I’m going to go the Ring route to start and hope that setting off the alarm/explaining himself to the police will be enough of a deterrent that he’ll decide to violate someone else’s privacy instead (Schmoopie would be an excellent choice). I’m just SO DAMN TIRED of trying to anticipate this fuckwit’s every move … if only he invested the same level of time/energy/thought in getting an ACTUAL FUCKING JOB to support his kids as he does in criminal behavior.

      • Face the Ring camera doorbell away from the street, just facing the door (side angle ?) so it doesn’t ping your phone every time a pedestrian walks in front of your house.

        All excellent ideas CN !

    • Get a restraining order outlining why (illegal entry, etc.) then let him know. When he breaks it (and he will) call the cops and have him put in the slammer.

    • Why is he allowed to enter your house even for kid exchanges? I would nip that immediately!! He is not allowed to enter your home EVER!!! He can sit in his car for any scheduled drop offs or pick ups. Change the locks and maybe add a garage door opener with a code. Your kids can only enter/exit through the garage (hopefully you have one) and if he’s still entering, you can simply change the code.

    • What he is doing is creepy and threatening and illegal? Get the police involved. Then, get a restraining order so that he can’t come anywhere near your house or you. I know that will cause inconvenience for drop off and pick up, but that will be on him to arrange a third party to do it for the duration of the no contact order.

      I’d say that should set the record straight.

      Get some evidence though. I simple camera recording his presence will be worth the expense.

      Shut this down. What he’s doing is a power trip and it’s another form of abuse.

    • Call 911 immediately and file a report. Tell them he’s becoming more and more erratic and the frequency of his illegal entries is increasing. Tell them (rightfully) you fear for your safety. Then file a restraining order. Under no circumstances should you discuss his illegal behavior with you. NC.

  • I got a variation of this just recently. My ex-wife notified me of an upcoming doctors appointment for our child. The appointment was during my custody schedule, so normally I’d be the one to go. I’ve done this before several times by myself. However this time my ex-wife asked if she could. I told her no, since it was on my schedule it’s just easier for me to go. Then my ex-wife said she’d reschedule the appointment so she could be the one to go. She exclaimed that our kid wanted her there too. I guess she conveniently forgot all the times I’ve done this without her. Then she invited me to go with them and we could all go shopping afterwards.

    At this point, I’m amazed at the fact that my ex even keeps trying to do this sort of crap. I don’t want to see her or do anything with her. I let her know for the nth time “I have no wish to do anything with you”.

    She replied “why are you so mad at me”? I only replied that I wasn’t angry, I’m just enforcing a boundary. In my head I was thinking I’m going to have to contact my lawyer to get him to make an addition to the custody arrangement that states routine appointments must be alternated.

    Standing firm on my boundary resulted in a pile of ugly text messages accusing me of doing this to intentionally hurt both her and our child. Can you imagine making that claim in court? “Your honor Mr. SweetPotatoFlakes has deliberately sought to cause harm to my client by taking off work to take their child to the doctor during his custody schedule. My client wants to take off work too so they can all go together and make a faux family outing out of the experience”.

    After that she listed a bunch of things she said I had done that she felt was damaging to our child’s welfare (that hadn’t been mentioned at all until that point). Then when I wouldn’t reply to those messages she accused me of some made up crap that was very loosely based on real events.

    I think I finally have fully internalized that she sucks! I had a sudden desire to go off on her after the last text, but it dissolved into a knowing smile. There’s one more button she can no longer push to get kibble from me.

    • Hurray for you! Next stop, the Kingdom of Meh.

      Location, location, location – it’s all in your head. Where no one else can get it.

    • Wow SPF, your EX sounds like a Flake. Actually I see a lot of my EX in her Faux charm. I think she tips the scale in the antisocial personality disorder. Please be very careful and document everything and reply to nothing. I made it a game with myself to answer in as few words as possible and always “won” when the count was 0. A trick I was taught when I needed it most from a fellow Chump.

      Mine just wrote a letter to his sons (they have been no contact for 5 years) and first thing he says is “I do not know EXACTLY why you are mad at me, is it because I could not live with your mother?

      Lets forget the physical and emotional abuse he heaped on them thru the years, the public accusing them of being liars because he was afraid they would tell about the affair, the cancelling their health insurance when they needed it, the missing college funds, the not telling them where he is living and that he got married right after the divorce to a different OW than the one they knew, the going around to our church and trying to get the Pastor to make me discipline them…. It has nothing to do with me that they are NC, they just are relieved he is gone. He told me once it was my fault because I was a SAHM, I stole their love from him with having more time with them. ???????

      I cut all contact with him except an email address I created for him, even when the kids were minors, I figured if he need to text, he could text them, I got to the email when I wanted to.

      Just make sure the lies based loosely on real events do not become facts anywhere. I almost got arrested because he and his sister injured me… they thought two stories would be better than the truth. Lucky for me I did not defend myself like they anticipated, I went around behind them got in front of a judge and pushed the divorce thru 2 days later. Got my freedom and his story looked crazy because I was not fighting for him like he wanted others to think.

      You can not fight her fight! you will not bring the big guns in and she will, she will always win the battle, it is not worth it. Win the war stop explaining to her and let her rants dry up. You reply to her that you do not want to see her, I would not believe you either, When you ignore her that is a statement. No is a complete sentence. It is so hard to cut them off, I am 3 years NC and took a lot of hurt before I learned not to touch the hot stove.

      You know what my sons (21 and 22) did with the letter from EX, nothing, tossed it and sat down to dinner.

    • I’ve gotten a lot of this type of exchange. I don’t think you can prevent her from coming to a doctor’s visit (well, it depends on your custody agreement, but it’s likely that she has a legitimate interest in participating in kids’ medical care. My XW doesn’t bother with routine stuff, like testing, but if there’s a high-value participant like a doctor or therapist then she insists on being there), but all the rest of it should be a hard “no”. If you don’t share transportation to kids’ activities (I take my car, XW takes hers, whoever has custody takes the kid), that pretty much rules out family outings afterwards.

      The “what about the kids” argument is a tough one for me. Lately I just repeat to myself “We’re in this mess in the first place because you weren’t thinking our kids’ welfare when you had your affair. You don’t have the moral standing to tell ME to think about the kids now”

  • I used to get variations of this constantly for things large and small when married to XAss. Now he just tries to do it to me over the kid and custody issues. This used to make me crazy and I’d have to write the long email explanation of responsibilities and the call for maturity and fairness. Not anymore, the last time he pulled the “I’m pretending to not understand the custody orders and will arbitrarily decide to not do something that is court ordered in order to fuck with you and make you crazy.” I just reply with “According to the State law (insert proper law reference #), the Divorce Decree and Joint Custody Agreement our orders state (insert quote of order). If you are having a hard time understanding this, please ask your attorney to explain it to you.” I now rarely have any problems of this sort any more.

  • Hooo, boy. Today’s post brings back some memories….

    If I wanted to discuss his repeated harem whore cheating: “I don’t want to argue”, total silence accompanied by shark eyes and a turn on his heel and walk out of the room.

    I got the festering pustules. Forced him to go get testing. He was called with results. Incredibly he gave them my landline # rather than his cell. I was in the room as he was given negative results for the usual STDs. He then asked ‘what about herpes?’ and being familiar with his mastery of deceit, I sensed something was off.

    He told me that he was negative for herpes but I didn’t believe him. So I called the testing facility back for clarification (English is his second language and I used that as a ruse) Incredibly, the girl responded with ‘He was negative for everything else but he wasn’t tested for herpes’ before she realized she was not allowed to give out such information.

    Yeah, LIVID is a good word for it.

    A day or so later, he was drunk (as usual) naked in the kitchen. He began taunting me that I was ‘dirty’ and that he was ‘clean as a whistle’, swinging his hips with his dick flapping back and forth. (Let that visual sink in)

    He’d been living with me/off of me/using me to enable his cheating. That was his intention from the day we met–he sought me out.

    He was evicted from my home and life as soon as legally possible. I was forced by law to allow him to remain in my home for 30 days.

    You will be heartened to learn that karma has been giving him a HELL of a hard time over the past 8 years since.

  • I will never forget the first meeting with lawyers and EX. It was discovery meeting and I was silent and let my lawyer speak. Dickhead kept trying to make light and telling me he likes my new license plate???? I am in shock we are sitting in that room after 37 year marriage and he is acting like we are in a normal social gathering?!! Anyway point being …. after the meeting he stated he and lawyer could not understand why I was so angry and emotional because EX stated to lawyer this process would be over quickly…50-50 etc! WTF?!! I still don’t get that…..he is having an affair, our family and future we planned was over and I was ok with that?!?

    • After ex was caught lying about porn , on dating sites and physically attacking me ( all within 24 hours )
      I kicked him out and immediately filed .
      He sent me an email literally listing all the “ good things “ he’d done throughout the marriage .
      Here’s a few gems ……
      Put gas in your car
      Bought the dogs food
      Sent you flowers
      Paid the mortgage

      #bitchcookies

      Cuz , you know , as long as they can list a few things they did that all men should be doing , we should just forget about all the bad behavior .

      Fuckwits . Trust they SUCK !

  • This is a great one to re-run because it covers so many Chump issues:

    1. The urge to explain our broken hearts.
    2. The vigil for some kind of insight and remorse from the cheater.
    3. The human desire for the world to be logical and predictable, by which I mean that disordered people should behave like normal people.

    They know about our broken hearts. They just don’t care.
    If they were capable of insight and remorse, you wouldn’t have to have a candlelight vigil for their appearance.
    They aren’t like us.

  • He just couldn’t understand why I was so upset when he announced that he was in love and leaving to pursue his life with much younger Schmoopie (nevermind she was married with 2 little kids). He could not understand what all the fuss was about when he nuked our family to oblivion; he was calm an collected while I was completely overreacting by pleading with him to stay and try to work things out (a real low point in my life as I look back on it now). He actually had the nerve to say that if the kids and I really loved him we would be happy for him since he finally found true happiness; (a golden and beautiful happiness for the ages that lasted all three months after both divorces were final and sneaking around was no longer necessary lol). He also dismissed my hurt because 1. the marriage had been terrible since day one, not any good memories, good days, fun times etc, just a train wreck that lasted for over 20 years and 2. he had divorced me in his head; without telling me but I should have noticed and as such his affair was not really an affair because in his head he was single. (He used that twisted logic on one of HIS family members who had the “nerve” to call him out on the affair). Total NPD/Sociopath for certain.

  • And here’s the thing… this behavior never changes, so if you are lucky enough to have to co-parent or parallel-parent with your fuckwit, buckle up.

    Case in point… for the last three months, we have taken our son to participate at events for incoming students at a local, private high school. Mr. Sparkles made every event and was sure to text me immediately after what he was “telling” our son to do with regard to his application. Fast forward, son is accepted, hurrahs all around… now it is time to breakout the checkbook and commit to splitting 4-years of tuition and costs 50/50… and he’s ghosting me.

    Now, luckily, I’m at meh. It’s been 5 years. It is almost reassuring when he pulls these attempts at manipulation while trying to show the outside world and his GF that he is Mr. Sparkles. I’ve sent two emails, no response. So now, I’ll let the court tell him to respond. They’re good at that sort of thing, if not slow.

    In the interim, I’m keeping my son’s life moving forward to build the future he wants. Shit sandwich of financial responsibility for me, but we must always play the long game, Chumps… one sane parent, one great human… and one fuckwit alone in the woods with the other timid forest creatures. You cannot argue with a wall.

  • I see things clearer now that the trama bonding has worn off. But thanks to cl book I saw his anger towards my reactions to him stabbing me and our family in the back. I went off and told him he was a piece o shit husband and father. Later he came back as sad sausage because I said such hurtful things about his moral compass. Really u selfish entitled cheater.
    Call a spade a spade. I’m glad he chose the whore over me. Water raises to its own level and I have one less adult baby to parent. It’s nice being free.

  • Unfortunately, in my job, I see many narcissists and an occasional sociopath. You never try to reason with them. Your sentences need to have one noun and one verb. My husband has a business with several employees. One, a woman, was driving him crazy. Every single day she cornered him about something until he was finally having to deal with his employees and his business by hiding from her. I never understood why he did not get rid of her until I watched him with her. He tried to use reason. It never worked. While I was home between jobs, I saw just how controlling these people can be even with somebody as smart as my husband. I watched his body tense up every single time she was around him. Finally he felt imprisoned in our own home and dealt with his employees my phone. She called and I answered and told her not to call the house anymore that he would see her at the business. She called 30 minutes later and I told her what I meant and hung up the phone. She called again and I hung up immediately. This was the house phone and he had refused to get a cell phone for some reason so it was the only way he was connected to the business so he had nothing else to communicate with. Anyway, once I stopped the phone calls she started driving to the house. I told my husband that I would handle it. I walked to her car and told her to get off the property. She said she just wanted to speak to my husband and I said well you can’t not while you’re on this property. She got angry and left. 30 minutes later she was back. I walked out and said if I see you again I’m calling the cops. That finally stopped it. She was working under a contract so at the end of it it was not renewed. Just use a noun and a verb. No explanation and never try to find excuses for yourself.

  • “This isn’t an insight problem, you’re being manipulated.”

    This quote really resonates with me. I’m two year out now, and I would say that it’s only been in the last six months that I’m starting to understand this. How often they act dumb, deny, fail to understand as a form of manipulation.

    Or, they really just don’t get it. And that’s almost sadder because it means that you were really married to someone who is plain dumb about life.

  • Ohhh, this is so much my STBXw…a classic covert Narc

    who thought if she was just mean enough to me and our young children

    I would eventually blow up and hit her or leave (or preferably both)

    but once i busted her in 2x affairs an unmasked her, SHE became a rage-beast

    (bit me, screams at me over the phone, calls me every name in the book)

    but when i casually, calmly reference the fact that it was HER behavior that caused the divorce

    she tries the “You need to calm down”

    to which i respond:

    “Oh hon, i’ve been quite calm throughout this whole thing…don’t you remember YOU were the one who got arrested for biting me? and that YOU were the one who smashed up a bunch of stuff in the kitchen the night i busted you? I can share out all those pics again, if you are looking to be more accurate about which one of us has had moments of non-calm behavior”

    they are FREAKS…but thankfully we are NOT

    we’re just normal, flawed-but-good people who are lucky enough to have found each other

    Stay mighty, folks!

  • “Never speak truth to stupid,” I wish I hadn’t wasted so many hours doing just this.
    He’d reply with “I don’t know what you’re talking about,” “I’m seriously concerned about your mental well being,” “Really Brit, am I supposed to take you seriously?” “Are you looking for an argument, again.”

    Brought back memories of how flustered and frustrated I was. His arrogance, cool and calm demeanor showing not interest in solving anything or concern for our relationship more importantly my feelings.
    I regret not trusting or knowing that his actions spoke for itself. Thank God I found Chump Lady and Chump Nation, he had me questioning my mental stability which is no doubt what his intentions were. or worse.

  • I was reading Palmiteri’s blog and the word “pathology” popped up. I don’t untangle anymore and haven’t for some time now. 29 June is 2 years post divorce and I can finally say I feel myself healing from the absence of xw’s (PsyOps) psychological operations campaign.

    All the Stupid Shit, textbook 📚 responses employed by my freelance concubine were effective tools to gauge her level of control over me. When I saw who she really was, “pathology” became my crystal clear, intellectual defense mechanism to override the emotional surrealism my heart kept getting swept away in during F2F encounters earlier.

    Her “Why’s?” Don’t matter Now. It’s her pathology which Is Ingrained at a cellular level-utterly incurable or unchangeable. I don’t have to reason any further for cause and effect. It’s simple. This is a defective human being.

    Gathering Intel (QUIETLY) Got me to the pathology bridge. Once I heard a thing, or read a thing I could not unhear nor unread it. These become the foundation stones for LAC with the same urgency of a cancer diagnosis.

    Inexpensive Technology is readily available for uncovering the truth. Restricting communication to ONLY email is a good start. Operational Security is a MUST have discipline. Hardcopy + screenshots with date-time stamp. Offsite data storage and backup. Due diligence.

    The cherry 🍒 on the cake comes when you remove all doubt within yourself by Accepting factual evidence, file for divorce and let the subpoenas communicate consequences.

    “We have nothing more to talk about” means
    “Fresh outta kibbles”. I Installed crickets 🦗 chirping on my phone for text to remind me of the appropriate response.

    • Yup as duly noted above ….Chump …I’m so sorry you seem confused in what I’m saying ..I ll have my lawyer clear it up for u “ END of conversation !

      • Michele

        Part of being a Chump is to acquire the skill set of recognizing the Rage, Pity and Charm channels before, during and after as a manipulation tool.
        It took a bit of practice for me to become emotionless- to Not respond- but got easier every time I did it.

        I would name the channel for xw when she ran out of intelligible repartee before the switch to another. Pattern recognition short circuited her brain and hastened her exit from her ‘surprise visits’.

        Totally blocking all communication with her (email ONLY) sent the message “Fuck You, You’re Not in Control here. I Am!”

  • My banner song. Apparently Cornell had a taste of betrayal.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bmIeTtU1h3M

    “What You Are”

    And when you wanted me, I came to you
    And when you wanted someone else, I withdrew
    And when you asked for light, I set myself on fire
    And if I go far away I know, you’ll find another slave

    now I’m free from what you want
    Now I’m free from what you need
    Now I’m free from what you are

    And when you wanted blood, I cut my veins
    And when you wanted love, I bled myself again
    Now that I’ve had my fill of you, I’ll give you up forever
    And here I go, far away, I know you, you’ll find another slave

    Cause now I’m free from what you want
    Now I’m free from what you need
    Now I’m free from what you are. Hey

    Then a vision came to me, when you came along
    I gave you everything, but then you wanted more

    now I’m free from what you want
    Now I’m free from what you need
    Now I’m free from what you are. Hey
    now I’m free from what you want
    Now I’m free from what you need
    Now I’m free from what you are

  • Have to learn to stop giving people you’re energy and attention ..when they really need a crack in the face …no I’m not saying do that but the thought feels good lol…do not converse !!! No answering ..actually don’t even mention lawyer never let the losers know your next move …nothing like a good surprise ..correct u know the other woman surprise financial manevereing surprise …make sure u zip it get all financials …have them SERVED !!!! SURPRISE!!

    • Exactly. They pathologically Crave a response from us. Any Response. When they consistently get crickets their persistence evaporates.

  • Yes. I got this too. The moment I discovered her cheating it was: ‘Stop abusing me!’. She then proceeded to tell all and sundry how abusive I was, thereby making herself the victim and making it perfectly understandable that she would seek solace with her shiny, new toyboy, who happens to be 25-years-younger than me.

    These people are pieces of work!

  • My ex asked if I could please talk to his OW/wife and be friends with her. I said no, I have no interest. There is no need. He asked why. I said, “Because she slept with my husband.” (Like duh?!) To which he said basically said, “Oh that. Well can’t you get over that? It was no big deal. And if you’re still struggling, then you should get therapy.”

    Actually, that was the second time he asked me to be friends with her. The first time he asked, I asked no, and to that he responded with “Well fuck you, fuck you.” I hung up.

  • Yep. I repeatedly got: “I refuse to talk about this until you can work on your anger.” No matter how calmly I approached the fuckwit, this was her standard response.

    Translation: “I’m hoping that eventually enough time passes that you simply capitulate and learn to accept the fact that I’m far too fabulous to consider being monogamous.”

    Fast forward three years. I’m a single dad who has slowly rebuilt a lovely, quiet life for myself and my kid. No more constant drama and manipulation. Ex is still a smooth-talking manipulator, but her personal life is a wreck and she’s not aging well due to a life of constant FOMO and too many bees having pollinated that flower.

    • I am a year out and realizing now that I cannot engage and had to re-read the NO CONTACT part of the ChumpLady book. I made the mistake of thinking we could co-parent and be friends. His contact was just for Cake and when I did not give into his sexual advances, he would get pissed and stop talking to me. More half-ass promises he is a changed man and wants to try to reconcile but took NO action to prove it as usual. I thought he might do right by our daughter but now I have to fight to protect her against his manipulation. I tried to not get involved and let her just figure it out when he flakes on his weekends to have her constantly, but what do I do when I see him telling her not to tell me things or telling her to be secretive?

  • I just got caught up in this and get so mad at myelf when I engage. My divorced cheating souless jerk spent the weekend with his new shiny toy instead of seeing his daughter and his own mother who came into town (and staying with me and hit him BTW). I said nothing all weekend but then found texts to our daughter trying to get her to keep quiet about talking to him or asking her to not tell me things and I snapped. Then the – you are crazy and so hotile shit started.

    This is a new low- he fervently denies her car was outside his house all weekend, even when I and some of my girlfriends saw the car. Oh yes- we collectively hallucinated. Once we went down that road of denial, I walked away, but throwing the finger at his a few times as I left.

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