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Dear Chump Lady, My Wife Is Near Perfect But I See Prostitutes

Hi Chump Lady,

I happened upon your website and it seems to contain a lot of good advice for certain circumstances. But there are others, I think, where the main advice of “just leave” doesn’t apply.

See, I’m a cheater and never expected I would be. I married my near perfect wife, a wonderful human being who is a far better person than I, not realising how much I would miss sex were it absent.

I love sex, and tend to treat it as an Olympic sport. I love people, especially the ones I’m attracted to, and enjoy being intimate with them in every way possible. I was honest about all this to my wife, and she understood, but wasn’t interested in an open relationship. I loved her so much I didn’t mind, figuring as long as we had some sort of sex that would provide sufficient satisfaction.

And it did, until we had kids. Her depression and low self esteem just blew up after that. Having twins, we didn’t have time for much else — it’s a nightmare of exhaustion and sleep deprivation, especially since we both work full time. We grew apart, becoming more work partners than romantic partners.

I’m not complaining, just informing. Life is hard, and for ages I just thought we didn’t have time or energy to be romantic in any way. Then we started to regain some of that time and energy and I tried and tried and tried again, but to no avail. Life is near perfect except for the missing sex. My wife has received treatment for her PND, we’ve both gone to relationship counselling, but she flatly refuses to go to sex therapy. Maybe her priorities are spot on.

But I can’t live like this — and yet I don’t want to leave. I love and care about this person more than any other. I just need to also have sex.

So I’ve occasionally been seeing prostitutes — I’ve even become friends with a couple, since I like people and don’t like entirely meaningless sex.

My point is, this is keeping me going while I continue to try to help my wife with her problems, and our problems, and hopefully one day even the lack of sex problem.

But one thing I don’t think, is that we need to destroy our marriage because I am temporarily attending to a basic biological need.

Anyway, just a thought.

Thanks for your time,


Dear Withheld,

It would be so easy to just answer your letter with — “Just a thought, you’re scum.” But I feel compelled — because I love bullshit and tend to treat it as an Olympic sport — to thoroughly and painstakingly explain why you’re an asshole.

I’m not complaining, I’m just informing. Consider it a public service.

Your poor “near perfect” wife. So, so close to perfection except for the refusal to grant you an open marriage. So close to perfection except for her post-partum depression with infant twins and a full-time job. So close to perfection except she’ll go to doctors and therapists, but just not a sex therapist.

You poor man, why of COURSE you had to see prostitutes. Excuse me, friends. Who you pay.

But one thing I don’t think, is that we need to destroy our marriage because I am temporarily attending to a basic biological need.

How nice of you to speak in the royal “we” about a unilateral decision YOU made to have sex outside your marriage. “We” didn’t destroy the marriage. YOU are destroying it. The hooker thing maybe “temporary”, but your entitlement is all-encompassing. You feel entitled to Olympic sex. (WTF does that mean anyway? Are there pole-vaulters? Do you get judged by Russians?) You feel entitled to a perfect wife. (Near perfect isn’t cutting it.) You feel entitled to infants who sleep through the night and aren’t exhausting. (Have you MET any small children who aren’t exhausting? Did you order some lovely sanitized children who sleep in perfect 10-hour increments from the Lillian Vernon catalog and are now disappointed in your purchase?)

Your expectations are RIDICULOUS. No wonder your wife has “low self esteem.” I’m surprised she’s not throwing herself off highway bridge spans.

I’m sorry. I know I’m supposed to feel great wells of sympathy for your sexless marriage and your basic biological needs. However, you were pretty sketchy on the details there, Withheld. Like, is it a total loss of sex, or just not enough sex? Is it vanilla sex when you want Olympic sex? Is it sex with one near perfect wife when you want lots of attractive people to be “intimate with in every way possible”? You don’t say.

If sex is that important to you — and it sounds like it is — then divorce your wife and those exhausting, sleepless children — and be true to your vapid principles. At least then your wife would have an honest choice — be Olympically sexy or let you fuck people on the side and risk her health. Which you’re doing now, without her consent.

Oh I know you wanted me to believe in your Magic Boner and how important it is. That I would shudder at the thought of your deprivation and suffering. And how decent and well-meaning you are to have sex with professionals (who may be trafficked, and/or carrying STDs) and not disrespect your wife with an actual AFFAIR. (That’s quite a thin line you walk there. The sex cannot be meaningless, but it can’t be significant either.)

Withheld, I’m sorry you don’t get a Magic Boner and a perfect wife. You can follow your Magic Boner, make it a life-long quest, and best of luck with that. I hope your many hours of happy ejaculate were worth it when you’re old and alone with your colostomy bag. Go ahead and trade a loving, faithful, near perfect wife who destroyed her body to give you two babies for your Magic Boner. Don’t invest. Be about YOU. Flit from one attractive person to the next when your wife appliance is malfunctioning. Heck, chuck this wife appliance and get a new wife appliance every few years.

Life is hard, and for ages I just thought we didn’t have time or energy to be romantic in any way. 

How much time do your hookers take? How much do they cost? Here’s a crazy thought — why don’t you take that TIME and that ENERGY that you are investing ELSEWHERE and invest it in your FAMILY. Like, pick up the fucking slack. Wake up with a crying baby. Hire a sitter. Romance your wife. Empty the dishwasher.

Your life isn’t “hard,” dude. Being a Syrian refugee is hard. Having cancer is hard. Being a vulnerable, young mother when your husband is out fucking prostitutes is HARD. Your problem is you’re a selfish fucker who puts himself above his wife and children’s health and welfare.

If your wife was writing to me? You’re right, I wouldn’t say “just leave.” I’d say RUN.

This is a rerun. This guy needed shouting at again. 

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Always a classic! I still don’t know what this guy was thinking writing in – I guess “I’m special, CL will understand”?

    • My Ex follows his magic-dick and refuse to have a relationship ever again. Any relationship. He likes the variety of sex out there and dating app provide this for him.
      He has temporary fling and then it’s discard, delete and forget.
      I have no contact but I hear stuff thru the grapevine of friends.
      I wonder if he’s happy and how life will turn out for him.

      • Have you seen the film Shame with Michael Fassbender and Carrie Mulligan?

        Under fluorescent lights, that lifestyle doesn’t look one bit fun. Not even the dazzling attractiveness of the actors makes it look glamorous. The fact that it’s acted intelligently makes it even more unbearable to watch which was obviously intentional. The film is probably meant for viewers with a more anthropological interest in the subject of compulsive sexuality or really stalwart fans of “cinéma vérité.”

        • Yeah…big round of applause for the film SHAME

          Which does an amazing job of showing how, even if you look like FASSBINDER

          A life of exploitative, predatory sex is very, very empty indeed, no matter the size of your dick (his is quite huge)

          One of the very few films that shows infidelity and sexual predation as symptoms of serious mental illness, rather than just a set up for some cheap sitcom style laughs

          • I remember that film!

            Yeah it was actually really good. It took the idea of constant, illicit sex as being glamorous and turned it on its head. It manages to do that without being hamfisted or religious about it.

            • I need to watch it. I can’t understand how someone can live like that. With no one or anything.

              • It’s really an underrated film. Fassbender is merciless in playing this grimly compulsive, repulsive character. I appreciated that the film didn’t preach any psychobabble about sex addiction (which I’m not sold on). Other than the title and a brief mention of a rotten upbringing, the film doesn’t really posit an opinion on why these people do what they do. It just shows the behavior and the consequences.

      • Sounds like a sad life to me Confused 123. To me sex is a small but important part of a loving relationship. What about the company, holidays, outings, being there for each other, friendship, actual love?
        My ex didn’t value those things either and is now unhappily alone.
        Some people feel entitled to fresh exciting sex but I imagine that will get stale eventually. Or maybe not. I think some people cannot experience true love.

    • Many many years ago I used to listen to Dr. Laura and would laugh and laugh at hte people who would call in because they always thought they were the special ones and she would see that their situation was different and give different advice.

      She never did.

      She was a one trick wonder.

      • I was always confused by Dr. Laura. Her advice seemed spot on but she didn’t live the life she espoused. She flat out said mothers should be at home for their kids, yet she ran a very popular radio show. That always seemed an impossible task. She made it seem like this wildly popular radio show just kind of happened between 8 am and 2 pm when her son was in school on M-F. She didn’t have to take time off work to be a room mother, attend plays, volunteer for stuff. When did she find time to prep for her traveling speaking engagements? The only thing that made sense to me was to view her as entertainment and not a role model.

    • You cant be going through heart break from your partner without finding out what the problem really is. or having a bad moment because of your husbands recent addiction to dating sites without seeking solutions. I was dying inside for
      my cheating wife, i had no prove, no one to run to. Everyone thought i was paranoid . Cheating is an affair no doubt about that… and it doesn’t stop.. Basically think we all don’t have to face all these deceit and lies from our spouse…in a case of mine wen i got sick and tired of all the lies and deceit i had to contact a friend of mine to to help and i checked i have been with a cheater all my life

      • I went through my cheaters abuse in the early 90s. You are right, many times you are alone. Only a robot would not want answers. Or maybe someone whose marriage was awful, and they were glad to be rid of them. My husband was the one that I should have been able to turn to for help in such a crisis, but since he was the abuser, I just had to deal as best I could.

        I didn’t tell anyone for about three weeks after Dday, because he said he needed time tyo get his head on straight and he didn’t want anyone to know. He was not worried about the effect on me, only on him. He was also in trouble at work as she was his direct report, and he had just lobbied the city counsel for a raise for her.

        Of course I didn’t know that until three weeks later when I realized he was using me and I finally told my dad/brothers and my best friend. I told him he needed to file, as he was the one that wanted the divorce, so once he did that all hell broke loose for him.

        But I was on my way to being legally protected, and that was all that mattered.

        Took me about six months to come out of shock, and another couple years to let the wounds scar over. I still don’t know all that happened, never will because there were so many lies. In my case, as with many his actions and words took away 20 years of memories.

        I have had to go through my memories and blur him out of any of them, if I don’t then I can’t retain the memories of my son without my ex lurking in the background.

  • Please forgive the uptick in reruns. My Job job right now is intense and I’m working weekends. (We’re doing voter how-to guides for the upcoming elections for all 50 states and 3 territories — an insane amount of work.) My brain is still mush some mornings.

    On a tangent off fuckwits (and please don’t delve into your specific politics, because then everything turns into a brawl) — everyone PLEASE vote early, vote absentee, check your polling place (they’re all understaffed, because older people usually work the polls and they don’t want to be COVID vulnerable). Check your registration. Bring ID. Check, check, double check. It’s a cluster! A lot of states are changing the rules so you can vote absentee by mail. But you have to apply. So DO IT.

      • Chump Lady

        As you are so busy ( I know nothing about US politics ) can you do a re run of when affair partners marry . There seems to be a lot of us in that boat and from what I’ve seen it’s not been done in a couple of years

        Thank You

              • Vote for reruns!

                Your greatest service IMO, is to explain entitlement.

                We just do not get that drives the hurtful behaviour we are trying to make sense of and deal with.

                Once we see the entitlement the question ‘is this acceptable to me?’ becomes clearer and more obvious.

      • As an expat watching this shitstorm from afar (an actual FB page) And as a Texan from the Anne Richardson/Molly Ivens period of history, you go girl. Am appalled by what is going on in Portland. Sorry, know you keep politics out of your column. But as scary as narcisist are, when they are in charge? And if it wasn’t for your writing, I would not have seen it so written on the bigger canvas.
        Even with the help of google and multiple attempts, still cannot spell the narcissit word correctly.

        • Ann Richards and Molly Ivins… if only they were here now to share their intelligence and wicked sense of humor on the current state of affairs. (No pun intended.) I miss those two saucy broads.

          • Oh, Ann Richards and Molly Ivins!
            Music to my ears!
            Hey, if you wanna hear a classy chick on Capitol Hill, check out AOC’s personal point of order. NOT political. powerful statement.
            Image vs reality.
            It reinforces & validates our realities.

    • Thank goodness for your job! Everyone should vote so the results are truly a reflection of what the people want. NO POLITICS in that statement!
      Tracy, re-run away…so many gems that chumps need to read or read again.

      • And if you want to help you can volunteer for Reclaim Our Vote. It’s non-partisan. Alerts people they have been taken off voting rolls etc.

        Bring back democracy!

        • Also, if healthy and cautious, you MIGHT want to look into being a poll worker (NOT a “pole” worker! ????????????)
          They are needed & – I heard today & didn’t realize – are paid!

    • I just figure if you feel a need to rerun it, we most likely need to hear it again. This could have been written by my X-AH. I am never above a refresher course in disordered thinking, so thoughtfully provided by this cheater.

    • I wonder if Magic Boner ever replied.
      I don’t mind reruns.
      I really can’t even tell if I am living in a functional democracy and this is really scary. But I am carrying on.
      Good work Tracy!

    • Thank you for making positive changes for American’s.
      I’ve already got my vote by mail ready to go. Wyoming seems to be further ahead with this.

  • Let’s do the math…

    I assume that his friends who are prostitutes are still charging him to be “friendly”. I’ve never used their services so I’m not sure what the going rate is but I’m sure it’s more than a babysitter per hour.

    I assume that this Olympian is feeling entitled to practice his sport at least twice a week. I mean otherwise he’d get rusty, right?

    It might be worth his time to create a balance sheet between his friendly hookers and a night nurse so his non-sexy mother-of-twins could get some sleep. Or a twice a week housekeeper who changes sheets and does the laundry. Or filling the freezer with pre-cooked breakfasts, lunches and dinner for the babies and his wife? Or a weekly massage and sitter. SO MANY ORs.

    But that would require looking outside his Olympian needs and thinking about someone else first. Hard to do when your scum.

    And by the way, your probably not as Olympian as you think. The best lovers are givers, not looking for scores from judges. Most likely you suck as a lover but pay people to tell you you’re amazing. So sad for you.

  • This fucking piece of trash. My apologies to trash, which at some point of its life cycle was useful, unlike this waste of space here.

    The kicker is the marriage is trying not to “destroy” doesn’t even exist. It’s an illusion he created like anything else. Are you happy with the NOTHING you invest in every day, “dear” Withholding?
    Cause you may not be happy to leave the marriage, but your wife definitely will be, when she finds out.

    And she will find out. We all do.

  • I’m just shaking my head. That stupid cheater and his poor, overworked betrayed wife, are there no depths cheaters can’t sink too?

    Seriously, fuck that guy. He sucks. But his wife and kids, (his victims) there is the end story I want to hear. I want to know this Mother of Twins left this narcissistic twit, received a handsome settlement and is having her feet massaged by a kind, intelligent man who adores her and the kids.

    There are no depths a cheater can’t sink too. This guy is a classic entitled man-splaining oxygen thief. I hope he was enraged when he read Chump Lady’s response. I hope he saw who he was just as that figurative two by four smacked him up side the head. I hope he hates himself. But he won’t, this level of disconnect doesn’t heal. He will continue to lie and cheat. Withheld, are you out there? Do tell?

  • No doubt all the cheaters rationalize their cheating in one way or another. I’m sure mine does.

    If they didn’t rationalize it (and blame others, which is what Witheld is doing here), then they’d have to face their own dark, empty souls and shitty behavior. I suspect that their subconcious knows what kind of selfish shitheads they truly are. Perhaps facing up to that truth would thrust cheaters into despair.

    Hence all the rationalizations and mindfuckery. There’s no point in trying to apply sound reasoning to the BS they spew. It’s really sad.

    I hope his wife is now an ex and doing fabulously without him and that the twins are thriving.

    • I think many don’t even take the time to rationalize it, they are too busy just doing what they want.
      Mine was like that, which I feel is why he didn’t even have a “good” excuse at the ready when questioned.
      He just did what he wanted, positive I’d never find out.

      But the ones who romanticize it and invest in a narrative, like this fuckwit here, that’s a whole other level of sociopathy.
      They are delusional if they think they can explain away morals and wrongdoing.
      I’m sure they feel enlightened, too, they probably choose to ignore that’s just the blazing fires of hell providing the backlighting…

      • I agree that they are “delusional if they think they can explain away morals and wrongdoing.”

        Mine admitted he was probably delusional. Key word, “probably.”

        I also think that even that admission was a manipulative tactic–act contrite, fess up, and the chumpy wife will feel my pain. The pathological liar was probably thinking, “It just makes me look like such a good person to be so honest (after admitting I lied for 2 1/2 years). Look at me now! I’m hanging my head in faux shame. As a result, surely fewer consequences will flow my way, and I might even score some kibbles.”

        He scored a divorce summons.

        Of course, he would mix this contrite shit with blaming me. So the mind-bending mix went something like this: “I made a terrible mistake. I let love blossom. The whore tried to end it,” but then he would add things like, “Affairs don’t happen in good marriage”; “You’re unable to forgive”; and “You gave as good as you got.”

        Classic cheater blameshifting BS.

  • Brilliant response.

    Wonder if this poor wife ever learned of her husband’s hooker problem. Poor woman.

    As for him. Well. He’s a douche. Excellent response to his malarkey.

    CL – All the strength and power in your endeavour to educate your fellow citizens on the voting process and empowering them to vote. You are going to need every ounce of support on that front.

    I’m in Canada. I feel that watching what’s going on south of the border might be protecting me from COVID as I find myself holding my breath a lot.

  • Ugh! What a piece of shit that guy is! I don’t recall having seen this before, CL, so it’s new to me. Thanks for your work on election material! We absolutely understand and appreciate you!!!!

  • Your making excuses for your behaviour. Herpes can still be caught whilst using a condom. Your wife has twins that is hard work.
    Have you ever looked after them yourself. Before your current relationship did you use prostitutes.
    You think prostitutes are your friends.
    Are you that naïve.
    Exactly how much are you spending on them you could have spent that on your family.
    I presume your lying to your wife about your finances.
    Incidentally the prostitutes are lying to you. You really believe they orgasm. They were abused in childhood and are now being abused by their pimps.
    You have lost the best things that have happened to you.

    • “You think prostitutes are your friends.”

      On “The Big Bang Theory”, they called this buying the “girlfriend” package.

      • haha.

        A few years ago, when I discorver that my ex paid for a couple lap dances, he said the women told him he was handsome, and he believed them.

        He looked a bit deflated when I pointed out that “They are paid to say that.”

        • Lol, I swear these types of guys/gals are so clueless. I guess that is how they can blow up their lives, without thought.

          • When it comes to this stuff, they aren’t the brightest bulbs. Are they?

            Mine actually whined, “I’m naive!!!” He thought that was his get-out-of-jail-free card. What I heard: “I’m not an entitled, narcissistic cheater of low character; I’m just an unsophisticated naive man, taken in by flirtatious women. It’s their fault!!! And if I admit my naivete, you’ll forgive me. Won’t you?”

            What an idiot!

            I really can’t roll my eyes enough here.

          • Oh
            My h was also befriending hookers- taking them for lunch or dinner ( when the actual dates were too difficult to arrange, or where his amazing self wasn’t able to get a date) listening to their issues, talking to them, basically- he was helping them.
            And then he was fucking them.
            And paying not for sex but to help them????
            Delusional thinking at it’s best

            Note: I’m against porn, I’m pro women, against sex trafficking, involved in many projects related to women’s rights.
            My h knew all that.

            He was SO DIFFERENT.
            hE was SPECIAL.
            His hookers were DIFFERENT
            And he was helping them.

            • Mine swore that all the hookers he went to were “just doing it for fun”. Really, not sex-trafficked. And all those porn videos? Married people who are exhibitionists.

        • That’s like calling a 900 number and expecting to talk to a woman. ???? sure you are honey. Maybe it’s a some guy who knows how to work the plumbing and do a good job talking falsetto. ????????I think that cured his habit of masturbation to 1900XXX-XXXX. Oh and I gave them my credit card numbers but they aren’t going to charge me anything. ????????????????. Let me show you the credit card bills. I know you’re lying.

  • He can go pluck his Magic Twanger, Froggy.

    I hope he did so.

    Everyone in my household has gone online and requested their mail-in ballot already. No, I’m not going to take any time off from work for a measly $165/day to risk being an election judge this year. Not. Gonna. Happen. Surprised the state even asked!

  • That is one classic prick (with no class) I hate these people. They should not marry or reproduce. They should stick with their own kind – ‘wankers’

  • CL Snark is the BEST snark! ????????

    (CL, you show up for us all 5 days a week without fail and have been doing so for years. No need to apologize for needing a break!!! Reruns are great too, and there are always new chumps who need them, always new conversations to share. Take care and may it all be smooth soon!)

  • I love the reruns. We are all at different points in this crazy journey. The newly chumped need to see them. As they are still relevant. The oldies, can see how far we have come in recognizing BS. These are typical narcissistic rationalization. It’s a waste of time to try and figure out why he would do this, the fact they he would do it, means he’s worthless. Run, newbies, run.

  • I seriously hope this guy isn’t in sales-because he really sucks at the “pitch.”

    He is light years away from getting “it”-and denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

    His ability to play “Hot Potato” with HIS shitty behavior is baffling.

    And what a sanctimonious piece of shit (it felt REALLY good to throw that one at my husband) who for years I never once called him a name because I didn’t want to hurt his feelings ????.

    I get it. My ex marched me into the OBG-YN’s office toting along our 2 year old twins and 6 week old baby-and insisted the doc provide me with some type of libido enhancer ????????????. The doc looked at him like he had sprouted a second head, and said, “No-she doesn’t need anything-she has 3 kids under the age of 3 and works full time-she’s TIRED!” That doctor was my hero that day!

    My ex was CONSTANTLY hounding me for sex. His idea of foreplay was rubbing my thigh with his boner and sheepishly asking me if I was tired. That shit made my vagina dryer than the Sahara.

    My ex always used to say “I just try to be the best person I can possibly be.” Gag.

    Sometimes I envy my ex’s ability to completely distance himself from his actions.

    Just like this cheater and my ex-I can’t imagine how exhausting it must be to not only deflect accusations but to also be such a martyr for trying to “help” us chumps with “our” problems.

    Dude-you ain’t no Mother Theresa….

    • Kudos to the doctor!

      Why the hell do they think rubbing a boner against you is a turn on? My STBX would do something similar and it wasn’t affectionate but grabby. It just pissed me off. I told him many, many times “This isn’t an “ON” button to press when you want to have sex”. Kept doing it though.

      • YES!!! They are so greedy and selfish that they come “at” you for sex instead of putting any effort into it!

        When I got my breast implants-he was always touching me-or I should say “pawing” at them-which disgusted me.

    • “My ex was CONSTANTLY hounding me for sex. His idea of foreplay was rubbing my thigh with his boner and sheepishly asking me if I was tired. That shit made my vagina dryer than the Sahara.”

      That’s the thing, they will kiss and love you up endlessly in the beginning to get you on board, but once married/committed “wanna do it?” becomes the norm. But, we are the problem. Don’t get me wrong, once I figured it out I was on board, but still.

      It was two years of marriage before I knew what the big O was. Yes we were both young, but honestly had he continued the foreplay that he used before marriage, while wrestling around in the car, I am betting I would have gotten there sooner.

      • I was in the same boat. My ex was a lousy lover — of course the first few years we screwed like rabbits, but the mature, caring love never evolved. He didn’t give or want to receive a massage, didn’t dance, and never learned my body. I literally had to use a little vibe before sex.

        Low and behold, after the divorce and I began dating, I found out that my body works just fine, when given the proper attention and an emotional connection. I’m in my late 50’s and my sex drive is far beyond what I ever experienced in my 25 years of marriage.

        I am horrified to realize how much I missed out on, but understand that all I can do now is appreciate that I am finally experiencing tender, intimate sex.

  • “Withheld”, thank goodness I stumbled upon your letter to Chump Lady when I did! You have single-handedly answered the most burning question I’ve had in the last 5 years:

    WHY did my XH cheat on me?

    Oh, I knew from reading CL’s book and many of her daily blogs that it was because he was a disordered, entitled, selfish prick who sucked (and he was not the man I thought I married), but I kept wondering if there wasn’t some other reason that could possibly explain his need to have 14 different extramarital affairs.

    But thanks to you, I finally understand! It was because we had TRIPLETS and I WORKED FULL-TIME! Such a simple explanation and I completely missed it. I feel so much better now.

    • Right? Don’t you feel foolish? Had you known, you could have figured out a way to meet his Olympic needs while still taking care of your children and job.

      • I had vag dryness after baby which was from breastfeeding and a big drop in estrogen-it was temporary. But ex ass hat wasn’t happy and for years he referred to that period of time and blamed me. Funny though, he was out fucking hookers anyway so why did he care? They’re just assholes!

  • I had not read the post so I consider it new content!

    Love this:

    “How much time do your hookers take? How much do they cost? Here’s a crazy thought — why don’t you take that TIME and that ENERGY that you are investing ELSEWHERE and invest it in your FAMILY. ”

    What an idiot. How about using the MONEY, time and energy to arrange to go somewhere lovely with your wife to recharge and reconnect. Better yet, send your wife somewhere lovely to recharge and you stay home with the twins, the cooking, cleaning and laundry while you work a full time job. Oh wait… you would just make it a fuck-fest while she was away. (I never understood why my STBX insisted I go on a girls trip to Key West. Now, I know.)

    CL thank you for your service to democracy! I have to go listen to Schuyler Sisters now. WORK!

    • I asked my ex how much it costs to go to a hooker. He said he was paying $400 per time. I lost my f’ing mind! He wouldn’t even bother taking me out to dinner because he complained how expensive it was to go out because we had to pay for a babysitter. Talk about feeling devalued.

  • Who knows what “lack of sex” even means to these people. I thought ex and I had a regular sex life. Yes, it was only 1-2 times week. It might have been more but ex had a hard time climaxing if it was any more frequent than that. True, he did prefer contorted positions that sometimes hurt or otherwise didn’t feel good to me but I did my best to accommodate. To hear him tell it after DDay, however, you would think I was a completely uninterested old fish and we hadn’t has sex in years. I recall him telling the marriage counselor during our very brief time in reconciliation that his libido was just stronger than mine and I just wasn’t all that interested in sex. News to me. If I can climax from basic sex with my partner of 20+years but he needs contortions and strange pussy to get off, who really has the stronger libido? Given my experience, I am skeptical of Witheld’s claims in regards to his wife’s lack of interest in sex. Is he trying to make her go to a sex therapist because he thinks she’s defective for not thrilling to “Olympian” sex? Maybe he should see a sex therapist to figure out how to enjoy more gentle sex so that it’s relaxing for his wife instead of just more work on top of everything else she has to do.

    • Absolutely, I call the bluff on the “sexless marriage-wife refusing therapy”, too!
      I’ve heard it way too many times from the mouths of cheaters, and I think they try this when they think women will empathize and justify him!! (because there are some who do, unfortunately).

      I bet it would come as news to the wife that she was in a “sexless marriage”, but I hope she does actually refuse sex with him, since he’s an infectious risk!!

      Ain’t no woman want your skanky smellin’ old dick, loser!!

      • What did I hear?
        – I’m sorry but I’m too tired ( when I was organizing sexy evenings, nights in hotels away from kids, role playing, name it- I probably tried doing so. Why? Because for me sex was fun activity that was there for us enjoy)
        I’m sorry but I’m not that attracted to you ( while pregnant with our 2 Nd kid within 2 years,)
        I’m sorry, but you constantly have some infections
        ( baffling to me and my gyno – constantly testing, infections were coming back )
        I’m sorry but I don’t find u attractive and I can’t get it up
        I’m sorry, but viagra you found is not your business
        ( no sex in the bedroom, pills used)
        I’m sorry, but you are too wet
        I’m sorry…. yada yada yada

        Basically, my very healthy view on sex was wrong, my infections were putting him off ( the big mystery was resolved the moment I stopped having sex with him. Apparently my body was too sensitive and remains of other pussies were the cause of my problem. No sex, no issue)
        The way I looked was a big turn off causing him ED

        Now, reality:

        My sex life with a h#2 is amazing, he can’t get enough of me and my ideas, being wet is a turn on, I’m older, wrinklier, yet attractive.

        • Oh yes.
          H#1 was using hookers dating women the whole marriage. Basically- he had no idea about normal healthy sex life, and was projecting the issues on me.

    • My XH never complained about our sex life, it was a non-issue. He never mentioned it but I’m just guessing he wanted to have sex with other women because it’d be new. Obviously I can’t become another person so I would never be able to satisfy that need. Either way, he can have all the new vagina’s he wants now. The more I read about men saying their wives don’t satisfy them in the bedroom the more I wonder if my XH will experience this and only then realize what he had in me.

      On the note of “Olympian Sex”, I’m sorry but any man who thinks all the kinky tactical stuff makes them amazing lovers is wrong. A great sex partner is about GIVING, its not about “hey let me twist you into a pretzel because having sex that way will feel better for you”. The concept isn’t that difficult to get guys, If She Enjoys It More Then You Will Get It More! Duh!

      If he wife didn’t have a lot of sex with him then it CLEARLY shows he just sucks as a partner. That’s on him not her!

      • Alice, I can relate to this. We had a good sex life. I think he just wanted variety, and when he saw an opportunity, he went for it without any consideration of me or the consequences.

        After D-Day, he said some confusing and somewhat contradictory things: “We’ll never have better sex than we had with each other” (spoken like a true narcissist) followed by “I was tired of needing porn.”

        Yeah, he didn’t need porn with the whore because she was like a live porn doll who popped out of the computer and into his lap.

        But now that they live together full time, and they’re no longer sneaking around, I’m just gonna go out on a limb here and guess that he’s up to his old porn habit.

        Oh well. I don’t really care. Getting to meh!!

        • @Spinach, OMG! My XH said the same thing! He literally said, “I will always miss you” when we talked about our sex life and I didn’t respond. He watched porn but it never really concerned me, I always thought it was better than him cheating on me.

          Didn’t matter though, he still wanted sex with someone new and that’s a need I can’t satisfy nor would I have ever agreed to and he knew that.

          Eventually, his looks will dwindle and he will see how hard it is to find a good woman who stands by him and also has a good sexual connection with. I’m sure he misses me now and will continue to. If anything as time goes on he will miss me more and more and I’ll drift further and further from him.

          I actually don’t miss sex with him at all. He ruined it for me when he slept with many OW. Now when I think about sex with him it grosses me out.

        • Maybe I am wrong, but I think most cheating done by men starts out with just wanting strange. They don’t intend it to be long term, but once they give in to that life style the keep at it, until they are caught.

          In my case I am pretty sure (though of course I can’t be 100 percent sure) that my ex cheated off and on during our whole marriage. Of course I didn’t know it at the time, and I was easy to fool. He kept at it until he got involved with his direct report and things went to hell.

          I know there are exceptions, and some men “fall in love” then cheat, though I think that is rare. I think mostly they cheat then at some point the entanglement of “falling in love” or nuts in a vice grip happen.

          Not that it matters much one way or the other, they are still responsible, and the chump bears most of the pain.

          Full disclosure: I know nothing about porn addiction, or how it affects normal people.

    • My ex complained about our non-existent sex life. And he was right!

      For the last six years of our relationship (9 years together in total), I didn’t enjoy sex with him and had maybe a total of three orgasms in those six years. But I still had sex with him because he wanted it. I felt it was my job, and I thought it would help our relationship. Sex then became a chore I dreaded which turned me off to it even more. And it didn’t help the relationship which kept getting worse because he’s most likely a malignant narcissist (all the signs are there). So, I stopped having sex with him. Six months later came my Dday and I told him to GTFO. It was the best thing and the worst thing that ever happened to me.

    • Their definition of a dead sex life is whatever they thing will promote their narrative and more importantly paint them as a victim. My asshole ex told his attorney that I hadn’t slept with him in years. It was the truth – literally. He snored like a train and was such a light sleeper that any move I made disturbed him and he would be sure to let me know in no uncertain terms so he slept in our bed and I slept on the sofa. He led her (his attorney) to believe that we were having no sex – that I refused him for years. She actually put that I had “left the marital bed” years ago in his counter complaint implying that I was denying him sex. The truth was we had sex 1-2 times a week always on demand when he wanted it for most of our 20 years together. Interestingly if I would make the first move to be intimate I would be turned down about 90% of the time. The last 3 months of our marriage we did not have sex because he decided to stop having sex with me – he declared it the month he found out that his AF was pregnant (I did not know at the time that he was even having and affair.) Anyway in one of our settlement meetings with both attorneys present he decided to make a big deal of my not sleeping with him; still using the euphemism “sleeping” instead of saying I wasn’t having sex with him so in his mind he was not lying. I don’t know what was more entertaining – the look of horror on his attorneys face when I explained that we still had sex and that he had shut me out or the rage that he went into when confronted with the truth – he was so out of control that he actually admitted that I provided sex on demand – his demand. My attorney ended that meeting at that point.

      • “Their definition of a dead sex life is whatever they thing will promote their narrative and more importantly paint them as a victim.”

        Yes, a thousand times yes!!!

  • OMG – I’m so using this line one day! Thank you once again, Tracy! “I hope your many hours of happy ejaculate were worth it when you’re old and alone with your colostomy bag.”

  • I’m not proud of knowing this information but here goes…

    I know of two men who think similar to this. One married his college sweetheart and they have two children together, they got married at 22yrs and are now 37yrs. He regularly cheats on his wife, has a full on girlfriend that he’s had for 3yrs and told me that he plans to divorce his wife once his children are in high school. His rational is that he won’t have to pay child support for too long because they will be closer to 18yrs (seeing as they will be in high school) and until then he gets to live in the same home as his children which is more “convenient” for him.

    The other man I know, is very very wealthy and just had a baby with his wife. He cheats on her with women he meets at happy hour after work and has no intention of ever divorcing her because he knows she needs him to survive since she doesn’t work. He says even if she knew he was cheating she wouldn’t leave him because she enjoys the upscale life he provides.

    These men disgust me and although I did my best to try to convince both of them that what they were doing was F’d up and to come clean to their wives they both maintained their minds were made up and what they were doing was “just the way it’s going to be”.

    Obviously I cut all ties with these men. I found it crazy I had to explain why I didn’t want to be associated with either of them because they both couldn’t understand why I wouldn’t talk to them any longer. What was even more bizarre to me was that they both confided in me with this information? I didn’t ask to know these things!! My only guess is that they were trying to get in my pants but clearly that was never going to happen.

    It’s very sad many men think like this. The odds are stacked against women in this world. Not only is it a mans world but as men age they still have access to scores of women their age all the way down to 18yrs. Women do not have this luxury, we are limited to men our age or older and men statistically don’t live as long as women. Sure you can date younger men but that’s never been my thing.

    • Two words for you: Anonymous. Letters.

      Also, that’s all down to how we educate our daughters.

      It’s up to women to refuse older men, and they would if we took time to make them aware of what scum, predatory behavior that is.

      • @Quetzal,

        I have no idea where they are now and I never knew where they lived when I did know them so I wouldn’t know where to start with sending letters.

        I wish I would have told their wives anonymously, I actually think about it a lot.

    • Alice, I don’t agree that women are limited to men their age or older. I know many women who are with younger men — my mom’s husband is 16 years younger than her and they’ve been married 25 years. My best friend, a widow is 54 but dates men in their early 40s.

      I prefer a man my age and when I finally kicked XH to the curb I knew several very eligible men who wanted to date. I’ve been with my significant other 5 years and met him at the gym.

      • @Mother,

        Yes you are right, I should have just said that I don’t date younger men and I also have a really hard time dating men my age. I have always dated men at least a year older than me and even that is hard for me because I’d prefer at least 3yrs older.

        So yes you are absolutely right, I just have the odds stacked against me because I’m not attracted to younger men. I wish I was.

      • Agreed. I was an attractive 40 when my world was blown up. After I was legally separated there were a couple chances to date a younger guy. (late thirties) I turned them down, as well as a couple older guys. Just wasn’t ready.

        However, I had said to myself then that if I ever dated again, it wouldn’t be to a guy my age. I didn’t want to go through another “mid life” situation for a hormonal 40 year old.

        When I did finally meet a man who peaked my interest, he was ten years older than I was. I met him at work, and he was good friends with my female supervisor. I grilled her excessively on how his marriage broke up, his financial background etc. I was financially responsible and did not want anything to do with a loser. She gave him a clean slate, and then she started matchmaking.

        Unless something happens in the next few years, it appears we both made an excellent choice. We will have been married 24 years this fall, and together for 28 years. It amazes me that the man still opens car doors for me. Treats me with kindness and respect, the list goes on. After all these years, I know that it isn’t about me, it is just who he is. His daughter told me, he always was that way with her mother, her mother just chose to throw him away.

        Just like my ex’s behavior was never about me, it was just who he was/is.

        • Congrats Susie on your 24yrs! That’s so wonderful to hear, warms my heart for you.

          I can’t believe his ex-wife just threw him away, he sounds wonderful. Definitely a regret I’m sure she has.

          I’ve had a few chances to date younger and twice I’ve had the chance to date men who where 10yrs older. I just can’t do it. I even gave it my best effort with one of the ones who was 10yrs older.

          I really prefer 3-4yrs older than me, I’ve been that way my whole life. I think of it as how some people only want to date within their culture or someone who lives close proximity to them. It’s just a preference I’ve always had.

          I hope to one day find my match, until them I’m just working on me. I’m still fit and can turn a heads but I don’t want someone who just is after me for my looks. I can sense that a mile away. I want something real.

          • I don’t know if she ever regretted it. Alcohol was a huge issue for her, he tried to get her help. Honestly, he would have never left her, he would have kept trying. She was the one that wanted to be “free” and whatever that entailed. She just walked in one day and said “I want a divorce”.

            Unfortunately, she died about ten years ago. I know it was difficult for him, for his kids to lose their mother. His situation was different than mine, in that though he was dumped, as far as he knows she wasn’t a cheater. But given her alcohol issues who knows. I would never say that to him, no reason to add more pain. He likely has thought of it.

            You really have to go with your comfort zone, but when you do meet the right one, I don’t think it will matter whether it is 5 or 10.

            My H and I are pretty evenly matched in our likes and dislikes. He is still mentally and physically active. We are both thankfully in fairly good health. But, once that goes if either of us need care, I know each of us will do our best to take care of each other. We both honor the “in sickness and in health,” just as we did the first time around, until we were casually thrown away.

            • That’s very sad that she has passed on now. This is exactly why you have to live life happy because it’s just too short. Getting away from my XH, I had to keep telling myself I didn’t want to live like that the rest of my life. It really motivated me to keep pressing on because life really is so short to live in such pain.

    • You should have somehow inform their wives. First wife is wasting her time/ life with him. The second one as well, you don’t know if she’s really with him for the money as he claims. Also, as his wife she’s entitled to a part of whatever he has. Both are young enough to find new jobs, educational degrees, new partners, whatever.

      • @Persephone,

        The one who married his college sweetheart I worked with, well sort of. He works for the same company as me but in a completely different dept. We had to work together (along with other people as well) on a group project 8mths ago and sometimes all of us would go to lunch together. As we were all leaving for lunch one day, he and I were the last to gather our things and that’s when he opened up to me. It was bizarre! I stopped talking to him shortly after the project ended because I told him what he was doing was wrong. Then the pandemic happened and I have no idea if he’s even at my company anymore. His dept was contracted out so I wouldn’t know where to start with trying to find his wife.

        The wealthy guy I know through friends. We met at a friends birthday party and he literally told me all of this crap when I first met him!?! It was awkward. I then saw him again about a month later at that same friends home for a pre-holiday gathering and he sought me out and began the conversation again. I told him I didn’t want to have anything to do with him because what he was doing was wrong. This was back in November so again I’d have no idea where to start and I don’t want the wives to know who I am because I’d want to stay out of it.

        Still I’d at least like to tell these wives what I know but how to do that is another story.

  • They truly are all the same. My cheater justified his actions by accusing me of being too tired and depressed after our third miscarriage to give him enough sex & attention, so he just HAD to have an affair with the half-his-age student who gave him “porn star sex”

    I am not interested in degrading porn star sex and never was, so I often wonder why he married me in the first place. *shrug* Good riddance!

    • Porn has destroyed the concept of healthy feel good sex. A lot of men see porn and think that is how sex should be.

      What they fail to notice is that these women are getting paid!!

      It’s the women who lose out on amazing sex these days because so many men want sex to be like porn. I’m not saying that kinky sex can’t be enjoyable but it shouldn’t be an act of degrading women or causing pain on them.

  • I would also like to know what kind of “sex therapist” he wanted to see. If it was a therapist who is or works with a sexual surrogate it would seem like a backdoor tactic to an open marriage.

  • Chump Lady, this was a good choice for a re-run. I don’t remember reading this one before, and it nearly made me barf. This guy was practicing his lines to use when he decided to stop paying and go for the affair. He sounds like my ex.

    I hope that “man” and his wife are long divorced and she didn’t get an incurable STD from him.

  • I am always suspicious of people who feel the need to talk about sex all the time, claim to “need’ sex all the time, claim to be “superior” or to practice “olympian” sex, and who do not understand that prostitutes charge for “the girlfriend experience”, but are not their friends.

    Perhaps there is a fundamental difference in establishing priorities between men and woman? When my children were small, it was often all that I could do to get thru a day caring for them, myself, and doing the work which “needed” to be done at home and at work. I “needed” more sleep. I “needed” help. I didn’t need to be prodded out of what little sleep I had by some boner problem.

    I am sure that both men and women experience different levels of libido at different times in their lives. I rarely hear women complain about it, however. I am a woman, and have many woman friends, and when we do talk about sex, on occasion, we seem to have different desires at different times. When I worked in male dominated fields, they seemed to always talk about it, and there never seemed to be enough of it, and they didn’t seem to recognize that the conversation was not appropriate in the work place. My eyesight was near perfect in my younger days, and I can assure you that none of these men even vaguely resembled any Olympians I have ever seen.

    Stop whining and complaining. If you don’t want to be more helpful, and more romantic, and make an effort to be a good spouse, just admit it! You may not look like a person with a good reason to divorce, but at least you will be a person who is honest about his/her inability to cope with a life that is not all about ME, ME, ME!

    • “My eyesight was near perfect in my younger days, and I can assure you that none of these men even vaguely resembled any Olympians I have ever seen.”

      Right? When I was a pretty young woman, I would look in the mirror and say; oh I look awful, my hair is awful, I am fat (I wasn’t/still not)

      A man will look in the mirror with a beer gut, and say “alright” the chicks love me.

      • Society has long put substantial pressure on women when it comes to their image. I think that’s why men and women see themselves differently in the mirror.

        Looking back on all the men I’ve dated (including my XH), I can honestly say there was only 1 who I was completely captivated by looks wise. Still to this day, that one was the best looking man I’ve ever seen (no he wasn’t my XH). That man stopped me dead in my tracks, just so handsome. Although, I don’t think many would agree but he was totally my type.

        • True.

          My current H is much better looking than my first husband. Oh, my first husband was cute enough, but the H is taller bigger, and more traditionally good looking. I look at all his old AF pics and think dang, where was he when I was 18.

          What really pizzes me off is I had two guys perusing me at the same time. I think I rejected the wrong one. He was a couple years older. Just kidding, of course; but I have thought of him through out the years. Hope he had a good life, and found an amazing wife.

          • Lol my XH was attractive but not anything close to the guy I was talking about. My XH was 4inches shorter than I would have typically liked.

            Yea I see what you mean, I have often thought about my one that got away too. Although it was no fault of mine, it was just bad timing for the both of us. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll run into him eventually but probably not. He’s the one I was talking about, such a handsome guy. He had the cutest gap in his teeth which I know sounds odd but gosh he just had an incredible way about him. I can’t name a single thing that was wrong with him, it was just bad timing.

            • Honestly, I was so young that I think it was just a matter of timing.

              The other guy had joined the Navy, and just my ex was in the Army. My ex was home more, and so he was the one that won out.

              The last time Navy guy called, I was in too deep with ex. He was a very sweet young man, I wish I had gotten to know him better. He knew my ex better than I did as they lived in the same housing development. I had only moved to the town for my last two years of high school. likely he knew I was in for trouble, but wasn’t his place…

              But, again who knows. It is easy to look back and think what if. The biggest issue was that though I truly loved my ex, I was just too young to get married, but that is what more folks did back then. Then again, I can’t say I would change it, as I would then not have my son.

              Life is indeed messy, and there are no do overs.

              • I had a bad experience dating military when I was younger, so I don’t date military now. Not saying military men are all bad, I just can’t do it personally. My traumatic experience was enough to never linger down that path again.

              • Oh you have to do what is comfortable for you. In those day it was draft or enlist, most men of marrying age were in the military. Both these young men, had actually graduated from the same high school, though Navy guy was a year older than my ex and I.

                The research I have done on military marriages, show that their infidelity rate is no higher than the general population. Also, their rates show that the wife cheating is more prevalent than the men cheating, primarily the women waiting back home. However the overall infidelity rate is about average.

                Where I got into trouble is my ex became a police officer after he got out of the Army. The infidelity rate for law enforcement is 90 percent.

                But, all that aside the only ones that matter are the individual, and they are still responsible for their own bad choices, and for who they hurt.

              • @Susie, I didn’t realize the infidelity rate for law enforcement is so high. I wonder why that is? There is probably a study some where.

                My XH was a business man. He had nothing when I met him and eventually became very successful and powerful. The money and power changed him or at least revealed who he really was.

                My experience with military was one of the hardest times in my life. I just can’t go down that road. I realize I may be losing out on some great men potentially but the scares are too deep and I just can’t.

              • Alice, you have to consider the type of folks Law Enforcement attracts. But, they tend to be controllers, they tend to be aggressive, not assertive but aggressive.

                That is not a slam, because there are good guys in LE work, and those who have a good character will likely act accordingly.

                In their jobs they see pretty much the lowest form of folks and behavior all the time. Add to that women love the power behind the uniform and it is just a recipe for loose behavior for the weak of character.

                Back when I was married to my ex, at least 3/4th of the PD had been married multiple times, and it was common knowledge that many were running around. For many years, I thought mine was different, you know because that is what he told me and I had the un-mitigated gall to believe him. We grew apart my ass.

              • Susie, this makes a lot of sense now that you break it down. I’ve actually never been presented with or considered dating LE. It’s amazing to learn about so many others experiences in their life. I actually find it fascinating at times. To be frank I’ve learned Chumps to be some of the strongest humans I know. I’m really just honored to have talked and learned about so many of you. I hate how we all got here, but I’m very thankful to have met some wonderful people. Gives me hope for humanity.

              • I agree Alice, this is a terrific supportive place.

                I am log past the overwhelming hurt, but a recent action by my ex and his smoopie against my son caused a “trigger”. I started doing research on narcissist type personalities, and why one earth they would continue to throw grenade, and I happened upon this site. Enter the lock down, and I have been here since.

                My biggest lesson was that all these guys/gals are so much alike in their words and deeds. It is overwhelming really. I thought my situation was so unique. Though I hate that so many are dealing with it, it does provide some comfort and ah ha kind of moments.

                I wish with all my heart I had something like this when I was going through my hell.

      • The issue for me is the selfishness and entitlement. No mater what is going on in this woman’s life, he needs his Olympian sex. Would a woman complain about this if her husband had a triple bipass, or was enduring cancer treatment? I just don’t buy into the expectation that a wife should always be a one stop sexual service station for her husband, regardless of what ever else is going on. He has a burning need? Take a cold shower, take a bottle of lotion and a moment to yourself for self care, and if you are still burning, see a doctor!

        I have heard men comment that even if one location is “out of service”, a woman has other means and locations to take care of their needs. Seriously? No empathy, no “How can I help you honey,” just when one door is closed, open a window? No thought for her physical or emotional pain, or exhaustion? Because Boner? Because he has needs, and he is an Olympian in his mind?

        There is no place in a relationship for this attitude. Everyone has needs, and those needs need to be balanced against what else is going on in their world. If I am hungry, my need for food outweighs my need to do the horizontal mombo. If I am tired and sleepy, my need for rest and restoration outweighs my need to take care of burning boner. Timing and consideration are missing in this guy’s evaluation of his nearly perfect world. Never once does he suggest anything he could do to help anyone but himself.

        • Total agreement.

          “Never once does he suggest anything he could do to help anyone but himself.”

          It is why the accusation that the betrayed spouse is at fault is no heinous. Neither spouse is perfect, with perfect timing, yet only one spouse felt he/she deserved to step outside the marriage because the betrayed spouse is not perfect. The only thing I can infer from that is the cheater thinks they were a perfect. I mean they had to be right? Otherwise their spouse would have cheated.

        • @Portia,

          “I have heard men comment that even if one location is “out of service”, a woman has other means and locations to take care of their needs. Seriously?”

          Everything you said is spot on. I’ve also heard tons of men make that same comment you mentioned. It’s just gross. They view women as machines to always provide them with pleasure. They don’t see women as human beings, just bodies they can use.

          My XH would always give m a hard time when it was my time of the month. He’d make jokes or comments that made me feel badly. I never would even think to give the man I love a hard time about something like this. I guess that red flag I ignored, stupid me.

          • Oh yes, the sex can help with your menstrual cramps BS. It’s just like eating spaghetti. It’s a little messy but you just clean it up.

            Excuse me! Do you have a uterus? Do you know how I feel when I have my cycle? Do you know how much I now hate spaghetti from that visual image? Just who do you think is “just cleaning up the mess?” ME! Not you. You don’t clean up the bathroom when you pee on the floor. Your going to clean the bedroom sheets? OH, PLEASE!

            • And mess aside, do they really think you’d feel sexy and totally in the moment during the act? Shouldn’t sex be about making your partner feel good? How could I possibly feel good when I’m bloated, achy, fatigued, etc?

              My XH always would say, “well we have the shower”. Right, because having to do it in the shower because my body is going to naturally create a mess makes me feel so desired and beautiful (sarcasm).

    • “I am sure that both men and women experience different levels of libido at different times in their lives. I rarely hear women complain about it.”

      So true Portia. And I can imagine how these levels are impacted by a spouse asking for an open marriage, cheating, and withdrawal while their singular focus is on their need for sex outside of a committed relationship.

      They give themselves permission. The mismatch has less to do with sex; it about entitlement.

      • With cheaters there is no winning
        A) they have great needs for sex all the time- regardless of reality around them ( which is bs, because using their energy to help would lower and balanced the “ needs”, anyway..)

        B) they control the sex life – withholding , blaming, judging, making stories- and use gaslighting to cover that up

        In both cases- the point is clear and simple – you do not matter.

        No need for a lengthy digging.

        After years of having a B husband- I found that, that everything I was stupidly believed in ( years of brainwashing and being in love) is a lie.

        My sex need is normal.
        Expecting pleasure and care is normal.
        Saying no is normal
        Wanting sex is normal
        Not wanting it is norm as l

  • I am amazed that this disgusting cheating piece of crap has the nerve to write to you asking for advice??
    If he was man enough to let his poor innocent wife know what he’s doing she would throw him and his tiny “boner” out the door. Hopefully he alone catches a STD
    that cripples and destroys his body.
    He doesn’t deserve a wonderful wife and children. CL
    told him where to go in his selfish egotistical life.
    May he rot in hell ????

  • My STBX sounds like this. Even when we were having sex it had to be even kinkier like Kama Sutra style positions. Like watching porn and re-enactments of the scenes as they played. I did that once till I discovered he was watching the actresses while we were having sex. Umm, no I’m not a blowup doll. This is not anything pleasurable to be used like a toy for your needs only. Literally he could have cared less who he had his penis inserted into or what orifice. It would have been even better if would have been anal. No that’s exit only thank you! Trust me he’s tried to make it an entrance multiple times. Always mumbled something about slipping when being told that was not where he’s supposed to be near. Funny how you can feel them reposition for the new angle. Or when he pitches about he wanted me to explore sex with other people since I never did before we were married. Why would I now? I’m married! Or watch live sex on some stage. Ick! His beer belly was proof he was no Olympic Games competitor.

    I can only pray the wife has found out. She’s grabbed those twins and divorced him. I know how tired I was with two children under two and working. I can’t imagine twins and working.

    • What is with men and anal!?!?! I’ve heard it from 90% of men.

      I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard guys say they use the’ol “oh sorry, I slipped” line to try to get anal. It’s awful that someone would want to do anything to someone without their consent and mask it as “I slipped”.

      I’ve even heard married men say that if their wife was against anal they’d divorce her. What!?!?!

      Look if anal is your thing and you enjoy it, awesome. But if your partner doesn’t want it why is it considered a deal breaker or why do they have to pretend to slip or put pressure on their partner to do it? It’s a sick twisted mindset to me.

      If my XH said he was uncomfortable with having sex with the windows open, I wouldn’t put pressure on him or slip the windows open. You should respect your partners boundaries.

      Some men really only care about themselves.

      • 20 years of “oh sorry, it slipped”. Gawd almighty! What, they don’t think we can feel the difference of one orifice from the other? I should’ve had a stop sign tattooed around my anus as a perpetual reminder.

        • I set a rule for myself long ago. I won’t date men who have the “slip” mentality. I see it as a red flag now.


    Unilateral Covert Decisions In A Marriage = MIRAGE, not a marriage. And you’re holding your spouse hostage by denying their true consent.

    Like in my own marriage, I’ll bet there is
    LOT more unilateral going on that killed her desire
    for this world-class AH. Unilateral decisions are about power and control. So is cheating.

    And none of that is an aphrodisiac.

    • You’re right about the opposite of an aphrodisiac, Velvet Hammer. I thought that my relative lack of libido in recent years was caused by the cancer treatments I had in my 20’s (I’m now in my 40’s), since I’ve been in menopause since the ripe old age of 23. Since D-Day #2, however, I’ve reflected on the fact that my constant fatigue and lower libido actually started after D-Day #1 in 2004. They’ve been getting gradually worse over the years that I stayed married to a cheater. Go figure!

      I’m working on getting un-married to the cheater now, and at least we’re separated. I’m still tired, but of course we’re living through a pandemic. I hope to have more energy (maybe even libido-wise) in another year or two. If I ever date again, I certainly will be mindful that my body can recognize dysfunction quicker than my mind can, because I’m a chump!

  • I was just reading one of those articles about who you would want to have dinner with if you could pick anyone?
    I pick either the Buddha or Chump Lady. Tracy you are a straight shooting, wickedly intelligent, hysterically funny woman with a voice that NEEDS to be out there.
    Thank you.

  • Forgive me if this has been addressed. Why in the world would you think for one minute that a blog titled LEAVE A CHEATER, GAIN A LIFE is going to fix this? School is out. Nothing to do……hmmm…….let’s make up something and see what we get.

    If this is real then start your own blog. You might find the answer to your dilemma.

  • Is anyone else really impressed with the wife’s brilliant intuition in not sleeping with slimebag? She may have been fully in the dark but some part of her brain caught on. Hope she landed a job as a crime investigator once the blindfold came off.

  • With the exception of twins, I thought this was my ex (separated). Although, they weren’t prostitutes, they were “sex workers” or “sugar babies”, not whores at all. They were hard working young (sooo young!) women going to school to better themselves. Performing a public service really, except not for free.

    He had the nerve to tell me it was “honourable” because he wasn’t having an affair like those other scummy men. He had no interest in replacing me, his soul mate, this was just something meaningless. But not so meaningless he could give it up, mind you. And he was still coming home to me, the love of his life. I was so busy (tending to his needs) that he figured he “was doing me a favour”. Mind you we were still managing to have sex 1-3 times per week despite my full time job, full time parenting 2 kids, looking after the house and elderly parents, managing his business, and all of his many needs.

    For those of you wondering how much time/money these meaningless things cost, here are some fun facts: $500 per date which includes dinner, usually some sort of gifts (gift certificate to spa, flowers, etc), and sex. $3000 to take them on a week long cruise over the week of your son’s 21st birthday, + $15K during the cruise to pay to get her there and on board, and for all the lavish treats while on board (couples massages, wine packages, excursions, etc.). Apparently, it was my fault for wanting to celebrate my son’s birthday. He had “no choice” but to go on that exact week and what if he was in the mood to have sex? If I had gone, this wouldn’t have been an issue (I offered to go another week). $5000 for a weekend in NYC, plus theatre tickets, fancy hotel and restaurants. The above numbers may shock, but now multiply them over 25 years. Obviously I have little savings to speak of and owe more on my mortgage today than when we bought the house. Of course, not much matters in a no fault province. Let’s not get started on the gambling.

    Despite all the above, I come from a culture where divorce is so shameful, I’ve been asked/told “was it your menopause”, “you’ll kill your parents”, “what did you do to make him behave this way”, “your happiness can only be based on your husband’s happiness”. No wonder it took me 4 Ddays and CL to say enough.

    We’re separated and he’s currently juggling 3 whores, trying to convince me he’s given all that up, harassing me to reconcile, and whining about how he’ll have to work forever. I’m struggling, frumpy, missing companionship and the support of some family/friends but so much happier. THANK YOU CL AND CN!!!

    • You sound mighty, Stronger – you had to wade through a lot of BS to get free! I hope you’re able to be very low-contact, at least.

      I’m sorry you weren’t able to negotiate getting back some of those funds spent on the affair. To new chumps: it’s worth at least having that conversation with a lawyer, esp. if the estimated affair spending was stratospheric. In my case, it’s a couple thousand, not worth making an issue of it. I can only imagine the indignity of serious financial betrayal on top of the intimate kind (and other general emotional abuse).

      All best to you, Stronger! Frumpy chumps rule.

      • Thank you, LezChump! It’s not often I feel mighty but hearing someone else say it feels so nice.

        I agree, it’s definitely worth having the discussion with your counsel. In my province the bar is set quite high to “ offend the morality of the court”. It seemed easier to not spend even more money to pursue in exchange for not taking on 50% of his six figure debt (other than the house). And I wanted to get the process finished while he was being more cooperative. But, it may be easier depending on where you file.

        The amount of money was staggering and starting over is not easy as we all know, but i try to think of it as the price of freedom from darkness. I wish you peace as well on your journey – here’s to frumpy chumps everywhere!

    • Dear God woman. You tally up all those prostitutes and get your lawyer to go after “theft of marital resources.”

      Life is so much better on the other side of a fuckwit. Godspeed on the divorce.

      • Apparently it would cost a fortune for me to “ offend the morality of the court” enough to get it back in no fault and particularly if he was getting help to overcome his “addiction”. It made more sense for me to let it go in exchange for him not saddling me with half of his six figure Debt. Whores may be trashy, but they ain’t cheap.

  • There’s a fundamental difference between people who think of sex as a biological function they deserve to have fulfilled in their own time and to their own specifications by whoever or whatever is handy, and people who think of sex as something that bonds two people who love each other. Horace was the first, I am the second. I certainly hope he can find a pornstar to wipe his saggy ass when he starts to go gaga, because I won’t be there.

    • I am the second as well. Sex really is so much more satisfying when you love someone and are committed.

      Life has no meaning when you categorize things as “biological function”. People who think like this must have a difficult time on their death beds when it comes time. Imagine laying in that bed looking back on your life as “biological function”. Sorry to break it to them, but their “biological function” isn’t going to remember them when they are gone or carry on their memory. So sad.

      • That explain why despite my love and commitment I was always feeling slightly “ off” With h in the bedroom.
        I was young, willing and really liked sex- but that was gradually going down( on all fronts)
        It was always a sort of “ mhm” moment that wasn’t allowing me to fully enjoy

        Now- I know why. My unconscious mind knew, my body knew he wasn’t a safe partner.

        Voila… mystery solved

  • Here’s the thing about this guy – he’ll NEVER be satisfied.

    I recently had a serious relationship with a guy. We got along great and I was the happiest I’ve been since before my ex left for OW (7 years). I DID give him Olympian sex. I had the higher libido. I was adventurous. I had fun. I took initiative. I read articles on making sex even more enjoyable. He had no complaints. Zero. His performance was a maybe a 3 out of 10 – only since we’re talking in Olympic terms. (He had a host of medical issues from gout to a bad knee and was frequently exhausted from a high stress job). I too have a high stress job and even ruptured a disk during the course of our relationship and never slowed down. Point being, I never held his performance against him. I just accepted his condition for what it was and still loved and cherished him. I had gratitude for what I thought we had.

    I found out he had kept his online dating profile active (and was still checking it) after I asked him to take in down twice in 6 months. It remained. He knew my history with ex and that it was important to me to have complete exclusivity and mitigate vulnerabilities in our relationship. I ended it with him – no need to ask a third time. I told him to go off and be on his own – I’m not holding his hand while he looks for something else. I asked him why he would jeopardize things when we got along so well? He said: “I don’t know why I am doing this – you’re perfect – almost too perfect. You’re beautiful, intelligent, witty, and classy. My friends love you. We have so many shared interests.” He was right. I was perfect. He sucked.

    On the flip side, his lack of perfection didn’t drive me to look for better. I loved him regardless of his physical ailments and limitations that those created. That’s what love entails. If it was so unbearable where I felt that I couldn’t tolerate it, I could have worked with him to improve as a couple or I could have ended the relationship honestly.

    Neither my perfection nor this poor woman’s “near” perfection will stop the character disordered from being who they are. We can be perfect partners and still be cheated on. Painful lesson and sort of blows up the RICs notion that you can affair proof a relationship.

    • @nokibble,

      “Neither my perfection nor this poor woman’s “near” perfection will stop the character disordered from being who they are. We can be perfect partners and still be cheated on.”

      I completely 100% agree with you. There is nothing anyone can do to prevent a cheater from revealing who they really are. I may have flaws here and there but I’m a wonderful partner. It doesn’t guarantee me that I won’t be cheated on though. Cheaters cheat regardless.

      The guy you were seeing that you broke up with sounds like he is absolutely one of those who will never be satisfied. People who can’t be satisfied really miss out on what life is all about. I pity those that will never know love or how it makes life worth living. I get so much satisfaction out of being loyal and caring, it gives my life meaning. Sad many do not feel this way.

      • “People who can’t be satisfied really miss out on what life is all about. I pity those that will never know love or how it makes life worth living.”

        @Alice. I totally agree. I pity those as well. I think in time, with some introspection and subsequent failed relationships they may come to pity themselves. These people had love and chose to sabotage that for an infusion of butterflies. Butterflies are great, but they don’t last. Love lingers. That’s why so many of us that are hurt by cheaters take so long to heal. Cheater is gone, but that love takes a long time to dissipate and typically only does so with a lot of self work and self love on the part of the Chump. That love is what we felt for them. They were the lucky recipient of that love. It would suck to come to realize that you were fortunate to receive that gift and due to your shitty behavior, you lost it. Tragic.

        • @nokibble,

          Kind silly but I’m not sure if you’ve seen any of the Harry Potter series. There is a line that Harry says to Voldemort “you’re the weak on, and you’ll never know love or friendship. and I feel sorry for you”. It has always stuck with me.

          People who never know love really lose out on the true meaning of life. And I agree, it would suck to come to realize the you were fortunate to get the gift of love and lost it. So tragic.

    • I was the more passionate one in the marriage. My ex attested to that too. Even when we first started going out at age 29/30 has was having occasional ED issues. He assured me that it didn’t have anything to do with me as it started before meeting me. We never really had a hugely amazing sex life, it was fine, which I was good with because I believed this to be about having a mature love. I believed that real intimacy shared with a person over the years increases a bond that makes for great sex, and far better than crazy, hot sex.

      Of course, I slowed down when the kids came. My libido just wasn’t great those early years. I even went to the doctor to address the issue, to which she said that the only cure I needed was to get my husband to do more and take me out on a date to romance me. When I came home and jokingly said that the doctor orders him to take me out and help me feel sexy, he responded that now that I have told him to do it, he doesn’t feel like doing it. Well, isn’t that romantic? Thanks so much for the support in assuring me that I’m still beautiful and desirable and worthwhile.

      When our second child was born two months early, and I was told that further complications might occur if I got pregnant again, I was scared of getting pregnant if we had sex. I pleaded with him to have a vasectomy, but he put it off for three years. I went to the OB myself to discuss tubal ligation, and the OB talked me out of it, urging me to discuss a vasectomy with my husband again as it’s a much less complicated procedure.

      He just didn’t appear to care. His ED issues increased, and I felt bad, so I wouldn’t initiate. I didn’t want him to feel bad. Yet, not once, did he ever seek advice from a doctor or a counsellor. I begged for marriage counselling. I was starving for intimacy with this man. The kids were no longer babies, I was approaching 40 and I was feeling really sexy. But, my ex just didn’t care and so our sex life was sporadic.

      Did I go out an have an affair? Did I go get my needs met elsewhere with some other man? It’s not that there wasn’t opportunity. There were times I would catch some man’s eye when I was out with friends. Flattering, yes, but actually do anything? Of course not. The idea of that is just nauseating.

      So to learn that for at least the last 2.5 years of the marriage, my ex had secret “friendships”. To learn that he had been watching porn regularly for years. To learn that one woman was around for over 21 months, which explains why he suddenly started masturbating in the shower in the mornings while I wondered why this man rarely touched me. To have him tell me that he doesn’t have an ED problem, it’s just with me. To have him leave to be with this other woman. Then, to receive mail from his work prescription plan approving him for ED medication. It was sickening and demoralizing.

      Well, I can attest that the OW is not having an amazing sex life, unless her expectations are low. He clearly had his own issues with sex that could have been talked about years ago, help sought, loving patience demonstrated. But, nope.

      And, of course, I came out of this wondering if there is something really wrong with me. Do I put off men? Am I not interesting? I don’t feel that way anymore. Amen, to counselling. But also, amen to embracing my womanhood too. I now have a man from my past (an old boyfriend from my mid-20s) that I have reconnected with. His ex cheated on him too and his marriage imploded a year before mine. We’ve become really good friends, and we also have amazing sex. Wow! I’m back! It’s been freeing and validating that I am a passionate and attractive woman. I’m not ready for a serious relationship and neither is he. We simply appre ciate one another’s companionship in our busy lives. Our priority is our healing, our kids, our careers and our homes, so it’s nice that we can lean on each other for conversation, advice, etc.

      And I didn’t have to cheat to get there.

  • Hey there Withheld,

    Olympian? You’re the side of the Olympics that is bribes and pay-offs to have it hosted near you. The part after the expensive venue is built, used and abandoned and mocked for its complete level of hubris, terrible construction and dip-shittedness. You are the billionaire cross country skier from Qatar who participates because he paid his way in and completely sucks. Hope the herpes sore is a good stand-in for your medal.

  • A couple of them are friends???? ???????? I can’t even ????‍♀️????‍♀️????????

    I move in radical feminist circles (we’re radical because we centre females in our feminism, radical = root, it’s not terribly radical to think that blow jobs aren’t jobs, only women and girls are women and girls, and equality to men is a pretty low bar to set your ambitions on but here we are being all radical in our old fashioned but somehow radical feminism because men aren’t our benchmark or priority).

    We have lots of prostitutes in our circles, many desperate to exit, we campaign and organise for exit services and the Nordic Model (look it up I implore you, fight for that with your politicians, make it a voting issue), many more have been lucky enough to exit but they live with CPTSD just like the rest of us chumps, they fucking hated sex work, they call it paid rape, because they wouldn’t be fucking you if they weren’t being paid. They tune out take drugs whatever when johns like you show up, they laugh with their last vestiges of power in their own out of control lives at the Johns who think they are friends ???? they really do. But they need to survive and have no other option to get ahead and get a meaningful life except for being paid to be raped. It’s not a nice gig. Don’t even start me on the trafficking aka the pimping and ruthless men making a profit off of their paid rape. Men fucking them and fucking them over everywhere. They don’t have choices or they wouldn’t be doing it. Seriously.

    When my sex and porn addicted ex husband went postal on me for not wanting sex twice a day (with two young kids and a man child as well as a full time career) I said one day “just go out and fuck a prostitutes if you need sex so bad, but keep me across it cos there will need to be a budget” he was mortified. Such a tight arse and ego (a big dick is pretty useless when it’s attached to a bigger dick by the way) there was no way he’d consider this. I was being flippant, quite frankly sick and tired of the marital rape.

    Instead he went to gay saunas where the sex is free. He predated on women, my friends even, while they slept, pretending to be their husband (oh yes he did). He had at least 4 long term affairs that I know of (not at the time obviously) 3 of them vulnerable desperate lonely single women (like I was when I met him) and 1 of them our mutual friend and lawyer (male, introd him to those saunas, told me they were movie dates until the condom fell out of his pocket after one movie night when I’d been trying to get pregnant for 2 years (so lots of “Olympic sex” at home already). He dresses up in women’s underwear (autogynophile, look it up) and only used condoms with the guys. Because the women were desperate and gay guys at least have healthy boundaries unlike vulnerable desperate women (at least prostitutes use them too of course). Thousands of dollars pilfered from our accounts to buy his women gifts (so in a sense prostitutes too, just not officially).

    This poor me bullshit is classic entitled misogyny. Those women aren’t your friends. They’re being paid to be raped by you. They don’t enjoy it, they’re being paid to act like they enjoy it. The statistics of sex workers wanting to exit are astounding, higher than 95% I think, and that 5% is there purely as a statistical margin for error.

    Your poor “near perfect wife”. Entitlement to sex in a marriage is also known as marital rape. I lived it for 15 years. Emotional blackmail if I didn’t comply “you don’t love me because you won’t deep throat my dick”, in the end I would drag out my resistance to comply, observe him getting wound up so tight, so ragey as each day passed then boom, like a new man when I did (the nice guy would last hours then start all over again).

    Work on your entitlement dude. Leave your near perfect wife to sow your oats so she has some hope of getting her near perfect life back, because you are far from near perfect, you’re not even close. You’re just another entitled John with a disassociative, callous and entitled need to control women and have power over them where your dick is the only weapon you have to exert your power. Work on your own self esteem. Learn what the fuck intimacy actually looks like you emotionless prick. It’s not this that’s for sure.

    • NenaB,

      Your work with sex workers sounds amazing, heartbreaking, but amazing.

      When I read what your X did it just blew me away. The gay sauna is really bad but the predatory behavior to your friends and other women is so heinous. How in the world would anyone think they could get away with that?

      I hope you have a new lawyer!

  • CL I wish every cheater would read your reply! Especially my bullshit ex. I also had twins 3 years ago. I was so busy breastfeeding them simultaneously every other hour, awake all night, having near meltdowns every other day that he took it upon himself to see someone else instead of man up and help me. He would come home from a night out and ask me why I’m so cold to him when he wanted sex. Errr, maybe I just needed to close my eyes for an hour to actually rest before the babies started crying again? Maybe I was resentful because he was out drinking till 2am while I was home with all 5 of the children? Maybe he’s a complete asshole because I was alone in this relationship?

    The nerve of it all…

    And then these cheaters really believe it can still work out when you find out about the AP? Or in my case when the AP fell pregnant when my twins were 9 months old.

    I hope this man’s wife has since found out and divorced him. I did. And I am sure as hell on my way to meh I can feel it. I am repulsed at the thought of ever seeing my ex’s penis ever again. Surely Tuesday is near?

  • This letter could have been written by my ex. But I’ll embellish a bit and imagine what he would say:

    Dear CL,
    My wife is beautiful and sexy. We have an amazing daughter and we run a very cool consulting social purpose firm with great values. My wife and I are best friends. She’s fun! We laugh a lot, we travel, she’s adventurous. We love the same things. We have great sex. She keeps the house clean and she’s a great cook. She organizes our social life. She does all this so that I can work all the time. She works full time too and brings in a lot of money for our business. Again, we have great sex! But there’s a serious problem. I want to tie women up and beat them during sex. I don’t think my wife will go for this so I go to sex clubs to troll for women who will let me hurt them. I have to do this! I also find it problematic that my wife does the banking so I have to get creative in skimming money. It’s so tiring for me. So to make it easier, I now have a girlfriend. I met this woman on one of my wife’s work projects. She will do anything I want! It’s great. My problem is my wife just doesn’t get it. My wife also wants sex with me but it’s so vanilla compared to what these other women let me do to them. So what do I do Chump Lady? My wife just needs to accept my lifestyle and my need to degrade women. She’s so selfish I just need some advice about how to get her to have an open marriage so I can finally get what I need. I’m so tired and she seems tired too. She’s also become really quite paranoid and sad, which isn’t helping her make clear decisions.
    Just tryin’ to get S&M

    • “and by open marriage, I mean I am free to do whatever I want, and my wife stays faithful to me”

      I am pretty sure that is the marriage I had for 20 years, though of course I didn’t know it.

      • Yeah, I’ve been in an open marriage for 24 years. I wish I’d known it… maybe I could have had a hot boyfriend on the side who actually cooks dinner now and again ????????????. (Jokes). I’m boring and wanted monogamy and intimacy. Silly me.

        • Right? Now they tell us.

          But, I love my one guy. If anyone can have it, it isn’t special. Monogamy for me.

  • Am I the only one who is afraid of ending up old and alone with a colostomy bag because I had to leave the cheater?

    • Usually men die first, so you likely would have been left alone in your old age anyway. Assuming your cheater was a man.

      Maybe that’s Gods gift to women for all the crap many of them had to endure.

    • If you ended up with an ostomy bag (or any other health condition), the last person you’d want to share that with is a man with no substance of character like a cheater!

      They bail when things get too hard (they stay for as long as they enjoy that cake, then they bail. They all do. Unless they die first)

    • I think my new nickname for my cheating ex-wife will be “the colostomy bag.” She didn’t have one, but she was one.

    • Zeebee,
      I’m with you. I’m really not happy about the likelihood of growing old alone, either. I will turn 47 on Monday and don’t discount the possibility I might someday find a new partner, but for now I’m an older lesbian, tied down by joint child custody and a job, living in the suburbs. Kind of a unicorn. Highly unlikely to find someone of interest anytime soon. Also, I had cancer treatments in my 20’s that have had long-term side effects – not to mention being married to a disordered cheater for 22 years! – so my body has the wear and tear that I associate more with people in their early 60’s.

      I just know that I couldn’t be married to my spouse any longer (we are both women). I stayed in the guest bedroom for 15 months after D-Day #2 in 2018, trying to make it work – in part because of the kids, in part because of sunk costs (financial and emotional) and the whole life I had built. Of course, STBX didn’t want to divorce – I’m too effective as a spouse appliance. She’s likely a covert narcissist, and can talk a very good game. But she couldn’t do Real Remorse either. And thanks to CL, at least I knew that I was witnessing the Genuine Imitation Naugahyde kind. Finally, staying seemed so much scarier than the alternative that I moved out and am working on filing.

      While it won’t be fun growing old – and dealing with mounting impacts of abrupt climate change – alone, all of that will be immeasurably better without a cheater. The freedom feels priceless.

      All best to you. I hope you have people around you, even if not a partner, for the stages to come…

      • LezChump–

        Meh, what’s “older” anyway?

        The new science on aging and “biological age” vs. “chronological age” is that it’s more a reflection of psychology than we previously knew. In one study it was found that people who refused to tell their ages or otherwise defended themselves against and deflected others’ attempts to “make them feel old” were, in fact, biologically far younger than their chronological ages.

        This fits with what I know of my mother’s family from the virgin forests of northern Europe. They all had kids until they couldn’t anymore (in the time people had a lot of kids to work the land) and lived forever. It was normal for them and they thought nothing of it.

        Cut to the modern day western world and people start getting that anxious, haunted look at age 27, as if they’re running out of time. That’s the modern normal.

        If this page proves anything, the current norm ain’t normal so ignore it. Write your own. 😉

      • If you go for partners around your age (meaning, not much younger) then nobody’s body and health are perfect. Nit even all yoynger people ahave perfect bodies – I look better than some people in their 20s or 30s. Also, virtually all people around your age will have baggage and histories.

    • Okay, look at it this way. I know what some fuckwits have done to a stoma and it’s not to apply another bag to it. It’s another entrance for a penis. Folks have had to have them repaired surgically. Better to have the colostomy bag alone.

    • There are lots of new ways of aging, in communities with friends. It’s a thing. We’re at risk aging alone even those of us with partners. I think if you’re an authentic loving person, you’ll figure out a new tribe. It takes some time and bravery, but we should all fight social isolation.

      Selfish fuckwits like this guy? He’ll never connect to anything or anyone. So yes I see grim days ahead.

      FWIW, I had a friend remarry at age 75. My old boss just remarried last month age 87, the groom was 92.

    • Do you want to be old with a colostomy bag with someone who isn’t present or loving?

      My mother died at age 79 from cancer. Her death was unexpected since she was post-chemo and was on the last step in her treatment.

      My parents marriage was horrible. My mother was abused, mostly emotionally but occasionally physically. My father had a terrible temper and now I recognize he is a narcissist.

      My mother, sister and I fully expected my father to drop dead of a heart attack in his 60’s. He had all the precursors – high blood pressure, high cholesterol and a family history of heart disease. We waited, and waited, and waited. He had cancer and came through fine; after open heart surgery he was better than ever.

      Not quite a year before my mother’s cancer diagnosis, she announced to everyone that she was moving, by herself, to Florida. My dad was beside himself and I didn’t know what to think at the time. What I know now is that she was done with the bullshit. I am so grateful that she had time to be happy. She walked every morning, played cards with friends…basically she did what she wanted to without having to cater to my father.

      You may be single but can have a life full of friends and things you love to do. You no longer have to worry about cheater; you don’t have to cook for him, do his laundry or clean up his messes. Do what you want. Popcorn and a glass of wine for dinner; go for it! Don’t want to make the bed; who cares!

      So my advice – be my mom. Take the chance to be happy for as long as you can.

      • I will add that my mother was far from alone while battling cancer.

        My sister is a teacher and I was home with young children. My mom received her diagnosis in late spring. My sister and I took turns during the summer to be with her to take her to chemo and take care of her. My dad wanted to come down but my mom said no.

        Her friends called her consistenly to check in on her and have a chat. Before she was scheduled for surgery my mom gave me a list of six friends that wanted updates on her condition. I am also sure that several of those friends were updating an even larger circle of friends.

  • Personally I’d *rather* end up old and alone with a colostomy bag than live a lie with a cheater.

    If you had stayed with a cheater and you still ended up with a colostomy bag, do you really think a slimy lying cheating fuckwit would be there for you?

    Hell no!

    • Right! Put me down for living with 6 cats in a mobile home in the desert rather than live with a fucking backstabber and traitor. The peace of not waiting for the next knife in the back. And not having to pretend to like a fucking Judas, just to have a pseudo marriage.

      • Yeah, I’d rather live the truth instead of a lie. Who wants a partner that’s scheming and backstabbing and tears you down to excuse their choice to cheat? Honestly, I think being alone doesn’t sound that bad, really. My house is cleaner. I come home to no drama. I don’t have to deal with the constant selfishness and complaints because she’s disappointed for five minutes (never mind she never looked in the mirror to see how she was), I also find that I’m no longer depressed (which she was a huge reason for).

  • I just don’t get it. How is your dick/vagina a overriding force in your life. Overrides everything.. safety, love, integrity, family, hobbies, a thousand other life passions. Maybe lack of imagination. It seems all the fuckwits have the same script.

    • Instant gratification, duper’s delight, narcissism, sociopathy, psychopathy, or to make it simple, they’re just shitty people.

    • In the case of my cheating STBX, the sex is just the purest form of emotional supply ( = kibbles), since STBX has no core sense of self. STBX needs to be adored, and I guess it seems like someone adores you at least temporarily when they’re getting their jollies on with you. But her APs were not exactly spouse material, and she knew it. She was being “adored” by emotionally damaged people who were more interested in love-bombing than in real life. The only reason I lasted this long in STBX’s life is that I’m Prime Grade-A Spouse Appliance, and pretty darn emotionally supportive, too. But I’m never going to give her those adoration kibbles like I did when we were first together – even if I felt like having more sex than I do after being married to a disordered cheater for 22 years!

      That’s what Olympic sex is about to a lot of people: not just bodily sensation, but kibbles galore. (Why do you think Withheld believed he was “friends” with his sex workers? It wasn’t only about the sex for him, either.)

      • That’s how delusional they are. Any fuckwit who thinks he/she has a ‘friendship’ with someone they *pay* for sex is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. ????????

    • I always wondered how my ex wife could not shutter with disgust and shame at sleeping with another man? No way in hell I would’ve ever cheated on her. I wouldn’t physically be able to do it nor would I be able to live with myself afterward. You’d be giving up everything for what? Sex? Some attention? You know how empty and fleeting that shit is?

  • Wow, if I ever wanted to hear the chump’s side of the story…and clue her in on what her douchebag narc husband (“Withheld”) is up to.

    Chump Lady?: Aren’t you ever tempted (to research and) tip off (their) chumps, when these cheater narcs write in to you with their self-serving bullshit?

  • Unbelievable sense of entitlement of which we are (at first) so unaware. The love bombing mask dropped after children arrive, as it compromises their impulsive lifestyle with us of fun and adventure at a whim.
    My 40 year term of keeping a home, raising 3 little ones and working to help support us all, resulting in my demise as an attractive lively participant in exciting activities outside the home. (Focus on HIM demeaned). Enter the prostitute “friends” as well in my case. They shared his likes and interests and were great to talk to. (In their 20’s …him 63)
    They really liked him !!!! ????
    I do so hope “Witheld’s” wife is long gone from his life choices, and didn’t stay til her very being was used up in exhaustive striving for nothing.
    I terminated my own chump hearted position as the disbelieving “what’s happening”, “I can fix this”, “what can I do better” innocent wifey after asking him one simple, straightforward question. (And for once….
    I sincerely believe he spoke his truth).
    “What do you REALLY want to have or achieve in the remaining time of your life?”
    He: “I want to die in the arms of a most beautiful woman, in the throes of passionate love making”.
    Emblazoned on my soul.
    40 years…
    I pray for Witheld’s wife and children, that they find their happiness without him.

  • Thank you Chump Lady. You bring light where there is darkness. This sex addict complaining husband will discover that these prostitutes, his “friends” will be the first to extort him. My fkwit doctor husband of 26 years developed a secret hooker habit because “I was gone too much working” his whores all came back to roost with threats of extortion ( nice welcome home for me). Had to get a Criminal Protective Order against the last crazy whore. We are separated by 1500 miles now and I’m almost to “meh” Your book and your postings are brilliant. You are brilliant Chump Lady, absolutely brilliant. Thank you for shedding light on these pathetic men.

  • X wanted anything but real, his actions were proof. It’s a lot easier to do wtf ever you want than it is to simply engage with your significant other. Often felt x was sabatoging our relationship, and isn’t that what Cheaters do? Narcs can only focus on pleasing themselves and it works until you begin to feel a bit put off. The disordered pretend to share our values until one day their truth trickles out. X fooled me for many years. Call it hard-wired, but none of our spouses were ever really capable of reciprocity (in bed or out…). This, is why we are free.

  • 1 week out of the divorce. Woke up feeling yuck. And then this post on CL. Burst out in giggles and went back to mighty. Thank you.

  • As a man, this sounds like such an empty and gross life (I’m also perplexed about all of these hooker stories as I’ve never had any friend or peer have that experience).

    I would’ve loved to have had a faithful wife and sure as hell wouldn’t destroy my integrity or my family so I could find some fleeting joy of getting off and lose my soul in the process.

    More often, I’m becoming seriously disgusted with people. From the feminist Sex and the City lifestyle sold to selfish women and the men with no moral compass, it’s disheartening.

  • My guess is that he does have sex with his wife. But he wants the kinky shit that only a paid sex worker will provide. So he uses this as an excuse.

    He is probably dumb enough to believe the prostitute’s acting! LOL. “Oooh baby you are the BEST I have ever had ! And we are now special friends, I really like you as a person”! ( now give me 200 bucks )

    He enjoys the public sewers. Creeper. Any time you lead a secret life, esp one involving the body fluids of others, you are a POS selfish cockroach.

  • Let’s take him at his word–he does all he can to help his wife and parent his kids, and he is still deeply unsatisfied with his sex life. His choices are simply either to tell the truth to his wife that he intends to seek sex with prostitutes or to lie. This is no different from doing your job well then asking your boss for a raise and being denied. You can find a new job or start stealing from the company.

    How does this man’s argument sound if he has to reimagine it as a justification for stealing from the company because there’s no reason for the firm to lose a great worker like him just because his supervisor doesn’t want to pay him as much as he has asked for? The job is nearly perfect for him, and he wouldn’t want to lose it when taking a paycheck and siphoning funds is an option, you know, at least for the time being.

    No matter how you spin it, the person who resorts to cheating and stealing is still cheating and stealing.

  • Your best post yet, CL. My sex addict ex-husband “hated me for being so perfect”. Prostitutes were his thing. His goal was to have one in every city. Mine was to be with one man for my entire life. Guess we weren’t on the same page. I never got how he still wanted to stay married, but Withheld gave me some insight into their warped thought process on this. Thank you for your response. It made me laugh and reminded me that there’s no negotiating what scum these men are.

    • I don’t even understand the appeal. I really don’t. As a young man in college, I was with women and it was always empty. I was married for a decade and never wanted to be with anyone else. I felt that intimacy and trust make sex the best. You’re not nervous or uncertain. You fully know someone because you’re giving your heart and your body to somebody. That’s what was the most mind-numbing thing to discover my ex had cheated on me with two different men. How could you do that to your husband and father of your children? How do you not feel like a dirty POS?

  • Ah yes, the myth of Basic Biological Needs. LOL, I guess all of those millions of people who go without sex for long periods of time and DON’T hire prostitutes are just seriously depriving themselves…what a bunch of suckers! CL is spot on. If you want something different than your wife, and there’s no mutual arrangement to be made, then you exit the marriage in the most honorable way possible and pursue your life of hookers and hookups. Enjoy that one!

    Also, cautionary tale people, it’s probably best to not marry someone with a significantly different sex drive/desires than yourself. This guy knew from the get that there wasn’t a match there. I also suspect that, in addition to exhaustion, this guys wife is picking up his disgusting sleazy vibe and is 100% turned off from him.

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