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UBT: You Will Use This to Illustrate Your Holiness

Hi Chump Lady,

Could you translate this email that the ex sent me? We have been in the process of getting divorced for 5 years due to his many appeals and are still not divorced yet even though he lives in China making a six digit salary with his girlfriend ( which is a blessing!). Sadly with courts being backed up, it’s hard to know when the divorce will be final and then we have to split assets. Sigh. A marathon and not a race… I received this email after asking for him to pay 90€ a month for a year to help pay for the children’s braces.

Thanks for having our backs Chump Lady!

Ms FreeFromChaos,

If you take an interest at all in geopolitics you are aware that there is a currently a real probability of a military conflict arising by accident in the South China Sea where exceedingly many Chinese warships and American and Australian aircraft carriers are cruising dangerously close to one another. In fact, an accident was already avoided twice.

If you take an interest at all in global economy you are aware that the rate CNY/EUR has dropped 6,27% as of today compared to one year ago. If the pension were (rationally) due according to the exchange rate, this means that I would pay you 1.687 € instead of 1.800 €. Does that ring a bell about what is going on ?

Yet — of course — the one single thing you care about is to squeeze yet again more and more money out of me. Isn’t that an awesome illustration of your consistent obsession for the past 5 years? Ignoring fulsomely what my own situation might be. I absolutely do expect, in response to this message, your cynically well phrased apology and assurance that you truly care, from the bottom of your heart, about all this: after all, you could use it in court to illustrate — successfully, of course — your holiness.

Speaking of holiness, I note that as I was video-talking with our child, you interrupted to make sure he would “tell me what you asked him to tell me” and he then immediately muted his phone. When he resumed our conversation he explained to me, in an admirably rational way, that this was something for you and me to talk about and not for him to play the role of intermediary — that you bullied him to play, as just another psychological abuse (this is my own addition). I urge you not to even attempt to break, or manipulate in any other evil way his therapy with Mr. Moraël.

Dear FreeFromChaos,

What is this guy? Dr. Evil? Who talks like this?

Too bad people can’t implode from their own pomposity.

If i were you, I’d get that scheduling software and I would just upload the receipt and present him with half the orthodontist bill. No imploring. No asking via the kid. No power to the fuckwit. Just stone cold documentation. He can explain his aversion to financial responsibility to the judge.

Never EVER give these freaks a reason to deny you. I realize breeding with a fuckwit offers a gazillion opportunities for such withholding (and I have the unpaid child support to prove it) — but it’s all kibbles and power to them. Please fast forward to the heavy boot of the law.

If the law doesn’t work (and sadly, in this country, it often does not — unpaid child support is a DISGRACE), then you find another way or do without. Woulda, coulda, shoulda will make you miserable. Yes, fuckwits shouldn’t hesitate to support their children. Newsflash, if they could be relied upon, they wouldn’t be fuckwits.

Children know who shows up. So keep being the sane parent. Meanwhile, I’ll toss this to the UBT, who is really quite reluctant to do anything much this summer other than crank the AC to ever more powerful fan settings and bitch. I promised it frozen cookies and 65 degrees Fahrenheit temps.

Ms FreeFromChaos,

If you take an interest at all in geopolitics you are aware that there is a currently a real probability of a military conflict arising by accident in the South China Sea where exceedingly many Chinese warships and American and Australian aircraft carriers are cruising dangerously close to one another. In fact, an accident was already avoided twice.

There are great matters of geopolitical importance I am concerning myself with. I do not have time for trifles like my son’s orthodonture.

Is that a bill? LOOK! A Chinese warship!

If you take an interest at all in global economy you are aware that the rate CNY/EUR has dropped 6,27% as of today compared to one year ago.

UBT: If you take an interest in your child, you’d notice that his teeth aren’t straight.

If the pension were (rationally) due according to the exchange rate, this means that I would pay you 1.687 € instead of 1.800 €. Does that ring a bell about what is going on?

The UBT wonders what the global exchange rate is for fuckwits. Is there a foreign market? Can they be recycled or melted down? Used as biofuel? The UBT would pay you 1.687 € to go away.

Yet — of course — the one single thing you care about is to squeeze yet again more and more money out of me.

The UBT could squeeze the brains out of your idiot head with its powerful pincer grip.

Isn’t that an awesome illustration of your consistent obsession for the past 5 years? Ignoring fulsomely what my own situation might be.

You and your five year obsession with child support. #fulsomefuckwit

I absolutely do expect, in response to this message, your cynically well phrased apology and assurance that you truly care, from the bottom of your heart, about all this: after all, you could use it in court to illustrate — successfully, of course — your holiness.

Jesus had his cross, Buddha his mountain. You have orthodontist receipts.

Speaking of holiness, I note that as I was video-talking with our child, you interrupted to make sure he would “tell me what you asked him to tell me” and he then immediately muted his phone. When he resumed our conversation he explained to me, in an admirably rational way, that this was something for you and me to talk about and not for him to play the role of intermediary — that you bullied him to play, as just another psychological abuse (this is my own addition). I urge you not to even attempt to break, or manipulate in any other evil way his therapy with Mr. M.

Speaking of holiness, don’t you dare speak to me through an intermediary. I require direct worship and sacrifice. Watch me smite this court order! I am a vengeful god! Like Odin, only more sociopathic. OBEY ME!


FreeFromChaos, go get the software. Seriously, don’t respond to this crap. Just forward it to your lawyer.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Someone actually lives with him and listens to this crap all day? She is either deaf or an idiot. I’m guessing the second. You are so lucky to live somewhere other than in his presence. You might go blind from all of that glitter and the huge halo around his head.
    Let the lawyer handle it. The less you deal with him the less your brain shrivels.

    • I’m realizing this is an international website here, because, well, Cheating Without Borders, well, it happens.

      And I realize every relationship has its internal history that I don’t understand! And Free, I don’t know you, so I could be wrong!!!

      That said, as I was reading this one the first time over, I couldn’t help thinking it sounded like something that had been first written in a different language, and translated by Google Translate ( a very bad way to attempt good translations!)

      So I’m going to add to Letgo’s list – deaf, idiot, or the cheater is not a native English speaker?

      Dunno, but even the English doesn’t sound normal to me, much less the cheater!

      • Nita, I too thought this letter could be the product of some sort of translating software; however, my ex (the pompous professor, a native of Oregon), frequently wrote in somewhat tortured English constructions. It was his attempt to sound educated, and it was the result of his constant rewriting and reworking of his prose.

        I still get a frisson of delight when I remember the anonymous review of one of ex’s academic journal submissions. The first line was something to the effect of “Professor XYZ doesn’t write as if he were a native English speaker, and it is quite difficult to discern his message.”

        There’s absolutely nothing wrong with non-native speakers, and I myself have spent a fair amount of time trying to communicate in languages not my own. However, word salad as a result of attempting to sound more literate sure gets my goat.

        • Triggered….military word salad designed to intimidate and belittle. How dare you bother me with such trivial things as my child’s health while there is the possibility of global conflict! Apologize at once for distracting me while I am trying to prevent WWIII( eff my schmoopie). The people over here recognize my true greatness…..(until I poop in this pool too).

          • Me ex (former military) would try to sound all sophisticated when he wrote too. Prose was WAAAAYYYY too long and WAAAYYYY too convoluted. He ended up just sounding like the dick he was!

            • Cheater thinks of himself as a long suffering saint. (Despite screwing around, alienating the children, and scamming insurance companies).

            • Mine was the same! Ex wanted to come off as hyper educated and erudite and would write in the most ridiculous prose. I have a PhD while ex is a college drop-out (not that there is anything wrong with dropping our of college generally speaking), but ex would always try to maintain superiority over me and others. Ex even went so far as to pretend to read Aristotle in as much as ex would carry around the same Aristotle book for YEARS with roughly page 10 marked the entire time as that was as far as ex ever got. But this book was ex’s constant prop that ex carried around everywhere and would pull out and pretend to read. I suggested numerous other intellectual and academic books that are more accessible and relevant so maybe ex could read past page 10 but ex always told me no. Ex loved to pull from pseudo intellectual language in every communication ever and wrote like shit as a result.

        • Is this guy from the East End, Yorkshire or originally South African or something?

          I’m not British but the writing reminds me of this fancy-effusive campy style that some use when they momentarily shed Cockney or another heavy dialect. It seems like a way of saying “Here I am speaking la-dee-dah-proper-English for you snobs. Bet you thought I couldn’t!”

          It seems geared to express a dash of class resentment. I’m guessing the Artless Dodger who refuses to pay for braces feels outclassed by Free-From-Chaos and fears the court will see her as more wholesome, more upright and more “holy.”

          Is there a name for that dialect switcheroo? It can be cute if done simply for clarity or come off as hateful and creepy when some do it (think Alan Ford in Snatched).

          I’m primed to notice it because NY had its own versions of this, like the Irish who break out of dialect with a campy extra-posh humorous lilt when speaking queen’s English, or “Damon Runyonism”– guys with thick Bronx/Brooklyn/Queens accents who pepper speech with five and six syllable words like hyper-intellectual college professors (not always done humorously).

          • True. He was definitely over the top. Someone secure with their education wouldn’t go overboard trying to impress or condescend. The writing style screams narcissist. FreefromChaos should be grateful to the skank AP that broke up the marriage. How anyone could live with this man is beyond me. Anyway CL is right, do not engage with this man. Just send the invoice either he pays without going to court or he pays his lawyer and the bill if it does go to court.

      • That’s exactly what I thought while reading it, too. Definitely sounds like a slightly awkward translation from another language.
        That said, unless there’s a play on words or double entendre in the pre-translated language, I can’t figure out what the paragraph following the line, “Speaking of holiness” has anything to do with holiness. 😀

      • Me too, it’s been translated from another language, hence the overly flower and formal substitutions.

      • I thought it sounded as though cheater had one of those Word-A-Day calendars & was trying to utilize some of those fancy big words by forcing them into his email. Idiot prose. Good riddance!

    • Well, I’m guessing she’s well paid to live with him. Chinese prostitutes target western men to get out of their awful country.

      • Worked on my husband. ???? I think that simple phrase of how my marriage was ruined by a Chinese prostitute (now his wife living with him in our house we built from scratch) dislodged the last deeply buried bit of grief from my body. Thank you. Better out than in, and I’m kicking butt in my new life!

      • I understand how a Chinese woman is willing to put up with anything with a western man to get the hell out of China. In this case, I’d prefer to stay in China rather than spend one second with that suck the air out of the room drip.

    • I figured this is probably an interpretation. Some languages are just more flowery than others but the pomposity is universal. I watched a comedian who said Shakespeare had about 35,000 words and we use 3,000. Ain’t that some shit?

    • I get emails similar to this from my pompous fuckwit. The git attempted to issue the threat of blocking my emails because I didn’t respond to his flowery overtones of goodness with adulation about all his ‘hard work’ in getting the farm sold. So I turned the tables and agreed that blocking was a great idea now the farm is actually sold and that he will be blocked forthwith but it was interesting how triggered he’d got about a simple email but lying cheating and gaslighting through 2 marriages spanning 3 decades was perfectly fine with him. Pompous fuckwits insisting on being ‘nice’ when they are trying to fuck you over in the property settlement after 14 years of lies are the ultimate douchbags

  • Trust me, having an ocean separating you from his fulsomeness is no small blessing. It gave me some sanity for 8 years. They suck and trying to reason is just futile. Listen to UBT and embrace those pincers.

  • Who talks like this? Narc fuckwits.

    Here’s the latest I got via OFW (just this past week), in response to my ignoring KK’s ongoing requests to have dinner together, “as a family,” to manage E the Elder’s upcoming college applications:

    “I have tried to find a way for you, me, and (E the Elder) to work together going forward on her college applications, choices, research, etc. I am willing to forgo my apathy of you for what is best for our daughter. However, you seem to think upholding some misguided non-existent moral authority to balm your wounded ego is more important than working together cooperatively to help our daughter navigate her transition to college . . .”

    • UX, I come from a non-western country and I’m not the most entrepreneurial person. Even I managed to research and apply (and got accepted) at one of the best universities in the world. This was almost pre-Internet and completely pre-social media times. Sure, advice is appreciated but I’m sure your daughter is more than capable to look at colleges herself (or she should be). And nobody “researches” while they’re eating a dinner.

      • Persephone — you know as well as I do that managing a college transition is not the end game here.

        • UX – she sounds like Glen Close in Fatal Attraction. “UX, I will not be ignored!”. Lock up your bunny rabbit or any other pets…

    • The main point aside, What dinner has essentially to do with college applications is beyond me. For college i needed the table CLEAR, lots of space, and good organization. Not food.

    • Dinner has zero to do with college applications.

      All he needs to do is split half the cost of the college applications (Example: you pay for one college application, he pays for the next one, etc).

      If you are divorced and UXworld is the custodial parent (meaning your child lives with you majority of the time) then your child will use only UXworld info on the financial stuff, unless it’s a private university then the child will have to get some info from her father.

      That’s basically it, no dinner required.

    • Does she really mean “forgo my apathy”? This is something I hope my teenage son will do: rouse himself sufficiently to appear at the dinner table and converse with his family, for instance, despite his very conspicuous lack of interest in leaving his bedroom.

      Maybe she means “forgo my antipathy”? You know, the word that means more or less the exact opposite of apathy?

      Sounds like your letter has something in common with the OP’s letter: exes using words that are just a little too big for them to handle, while they let their contempt just slightly, coyly peek through the veneer of civility.

      • And then there is “to balm.” I’m reminded of the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon in which Calvin, strutting alongside Hobbes, says, “I like to verb nouns.”

      • LMAO “……something I hope my teenage son will do: rouse himself sufficiently to appear at the dinner table and converse with his family”

        Gotta love teenage boys …..and when the door does open ….the teen boy stench?! OMG the stench!

        • Ha ha, yep, as a mother of two sons I know all about the slob lying in the bed until midday. We actually even had to WAKE our kids on Christmas day because they were still cocooned up there and it was almost time to eat. Even Santa couldn’t get them out of their beds. And the smell of their feet, oh my god! Oddly enough I was just thinking about this today for some reason – and my sons are 28 and 33!!! Don’t worry, they grow out of both this and their grunted responses!

      • Ah — antipathy! Yes, I’m sure that’s what she meant. The note goes on for two more paragraphs, which is quite a mouthful for someone who supposedly has apathy toward me.

        Remember — the Chlorine Special is a novelist and college writing instructor, so I’m sure she feels a need to present in a certain way when writing.

        • “the Chlorine Special is a novelist and college writing instructor”

          I can only imagine what his ‘novels’ and his ‘instructions’ must be like. Gertrude Stein out of David Icke? ????????????

        • My narc ex is so verbose, his texts and emails are legendary! My kids and I apply TLDNR: too long, did not read. And then actually read and respond to only the last paragraph.

          • I found it actually physically painful to read UX’s ex’s letter, as I kept cringing at her prose. My ex, even in our daily dinner/casual conversation, always accused me of caring more about HOW he said things instead of listening to WHAT he said. Sorry, but I’ve always been a stickler for precise language, probably from my lifetime of trying to make sense out of the chaos I lived in, from my dysfunctional FOO through my two marriages to liars.

      • Yes, Deedee, I went back and re-read it and I feel like it’s a slightly or mostly sarcastic use of the word holiness when in that paragraph he’s trying to describe what he sees as hypocrisy. Supposedly the chump is putting her kid in the middle and using the kid to tell the cheater not to put the kid in the middle. When for all cheater knows the therapist may be trying to help the kids be assertive and navigate the situation.

        Anyhow that contributed overall sense that maybe there was a machine involved from a language where holiness and hypocrisy might use the same noun.

    • “Dear Ex … Might I suggest you procure a proofreader. I am more than pleased that you are now able to put together somewhat coherent sentences as it indicates that your have passed out of your toddler stage and are now able to use your words. Allow me point out, however, that the word ‘balm’ is not a verb, and you have used it incorrectly in the sentence fragment “… to balm your wounded ego …”. It is a noun. Hence, as you are most likely now ascertaining, one would be able to put balm on a wounded ego, but not actually balm a wounded ego, as you suggest in your missive.

      The word can also be used as an adjective, as in ‘My Ex is downright balmy’.”

    • Yep, mine does the same thing tortured construction thing in writing…and it’s getting worse as the pressure increases.

      One thing that occurs to me while reading one of her soggy clumps of word salad is that, as disordered person with NPD

      she has almost never used words to honestly express what you think (rather than to express superiority) is a process in which she has almost never engaged

      And that effects of that have been wide-ranging & brain-warping…for her!

      So, for us normal folks like us, the
      abstract goal of communication is generally the same

      whether it’s a work email, rescheduling the kids’ soccer training session or inviting friends over for a backyard BBQ:

      That goal is to ACTUALLY share TRUE information with the recipient so as to MAINTAIN the (general) honesty that characterizes our relationships


      – Boss, I’ll have those TPS reports in as soon as Coworker finishes the graphs, which he said he’s have after lunch

      – Coach, could we move soccer training back until 4pm? Reason is I have a call until 3:30pm & the drive takes about 20 minutes

      – Friends, I’m gonna fire up the grill and ice down some beer for the game Sunday afternoon…all are welcome!

      So while can certainly write to impress with a smooth prose style and elevated vocabulary, I rarely do so because it would be counter to my goals

      and would lead to the Boss, the Coach and my Friends saying “WTF is this crap? Why doesn’t he just tell me max info in minimum words so I can just say “okay, sounds good” and then slightly adjust to the new reality?

      these awkward, lengthy and contorted communications just show how deep their mental dysfunction is

      And how much stronger we are for being able to share & compare our stories here at CN!

      Stay mighty, everyone

    • “I am willing to forgo my apathy of you for what is best for our daughter.”

      What the hell does that even mean? ????????. Smh.

      Boy, this bucket of warm spit is really, really, *really* desperate for some kibbles from you, UX.

      Methinks KK isn’t getting enough from the Chlorine Special, the desperation to triangulate is excruciating. ????????

    • UX, I think I’ve said this before but KK really is the gift that keeps on giving. Holy shit KK, just shut up, would you!

    • ‘ I am willing to forgo my apathy for you’ ???????????? what a passive aggressive asswipe .
      Asswipe clearly thinks he’s a saint though.

    • UX World,

      I get the same line. Prince Charming would be happy to help support his kids if only I could find it in my bitter heart to “sit down” with him. He’s the bigger person because he is so willing to “sit down” with me. I think this is their response to No Contact. Being ignored is a fate worse than death to these losers. You can help your daughter just fine without KK and the Chlorine Special.

      • Co-parenting 50/50 with a defense lawyer fuckwit is a special kind of hell. This is the belabored response I received to my simple request that he not leave our pre-teen kids overnight to attend BDSM events or invite his polyamorous partners to spend the night at his house, on his parenting days, without giving me the opportunity to watch the kids myself (we live just two blocks away from each other):

        “Dear Gorillapoop,
        Ok, so I think we are close to agreement. I would like to do a deep dive into terms like “sexual adventures” or “kink” and then also words like “non-custodial parenting days, every other week.” The point is to illustrate how tough it would be to ever police what you are proposing and how it would lead to more arguments, and propose neutral non-behavioral terminology as a workable solution.

        Let me start with some assumptions. Long term committed partners, eg parents, can perfectly well have sex on “custodial” days. The idea being that kids go to bed, or watch movies, and the adults can find time to be intimate. This is great, good and positive, and is as old as, well, humans.

        On the other hand, everyone can agree that having an orgy in the next room over while the kids are asleep and watching movies would be to invite unreasonable exposure of sex to the kids.

        Let’s give each of these situations a neutral term: Situation A, and Situation B, respectively. How does one accurately set a distinction between the two? “kink” wouldn’t work because what if in Situation A someone wants to be tied up? “Sexual adventure” would likewise not be a good term, because couples can have sexual adventures, quietly and without disturbing sleeping children. One could do a laundry list of specific behaviors disallowed, but the list would always be under-inclusive (humans are very very creative in sex; imagine disallowing flogging but then being silent on needle play). I worry that there isn’t a good line between the two. Anyone can know what the extremes are, but the line between the two – that which is agreed upon as the separation between allowed on parenting days and disallowed — is very hard to define. And trust me, that line needs to be defined because I have every confidence that you will police it like it was your job. I want an easy assurance as to what is allowed and what is not, so that I can make choices in advance to honor my promises.

        “Non-custodial parenting day, every other week” also suffers from over inclusion and under inclusion. What about when we trade days? If I have the kids from Friday to Thursday, am I also to not have (let us use the word for now) “sexual adventures” on that Friday, which would ordinarily have been a custodial parenting day for me, but now isn’t because of some trade we did? What about when the kids are at sleepovers with friends? Putting a behavioral restriction on me doesn’t seem reasonable because it isn’t calculated to avoid premature exposure of sex to the kids – it’s just a limitation on me – and that just begs the question if we really are talking about avoiding exposure to kids or something else, that isn’t really appropriate in this forum.

        The above recreates exactly why we pushed so hard to have non-behavioral lines drawn in our last agreement. A three-hour rule [of right of first refusal] means I don’t have to get into the weeds with you or lawyers about whether I went to tennis, a discussion group on humiliation where everyone kept their clothes on, or a fetish party with public acts of sex. I wouldn’t have to explain, defend, or even discuss – for example – whether or not certain topics of conversation were shared between friends, let alone if sex were or were not to happen between those same friends (or get into the definition of sex!). Instead, I would simply agree to avoid premature exposure of sex to the kids and, if I needed to go elsewhere, I would make arrangements to trade days with the kids with you, have a baby-sitter or (and yes I do this to!) avoid going to the event. But they are all permissible tools because they all separate the kids from premature exposure.

        I hear that you are shocked and alarmed as to some of the events I have attended. And yet, the kids have been exposed to none of it, and I have happily taken responsibility for fixing my regrettable oversight that led to photos being downloaded on their device. I think a three hour rule – or something like it – keeps us from having to have arguments down the line about what I did or didn’t get up to, and prevents us from having to get into the weeds about what terms like “sex” or “kink” mean. I hope we can both agree that saves everyone a lot of heartburn.

        With that I’m open to a proposal on the terminology, but otherwise, I like the non-behavioral and neutral terminology of what we have, (and would pretty much want to keep it an virtually any price).”

        -Fuckwit Fetlife Attorney

        Needless to say, he has broken the terms of the consent order we eventually agreed to on this matter numerous times since then. I don’t have another $40k to take him to court on it, knowing he will flat out lie to the judge under oath. So I am no-contact now, and I’m investing in a tax-free health savings account to pay for all the kids’ mental health treatment they are going to need after being parented by this leaking @$$hole.

        • Whoa! How old are your kids? If old enough they should be informed (in a nice way) their father is beyond bat shit crazy. There is no way this man can function as a normal father. No way. I’m so so sorry for you.

        • Fuckwit wrote: “…couples can have sexual adventures, quietly and without disturbing sleeping children.”

          So he’s having BDSM and poly kink a few doors down from sleeping/movie-watching tots AND the sex is lousy (“quiet”) for the female partners to boot? He must be paying them one way or another or consistently using ball gags or there’s a really high turnover rate or he’s hanging with ex felons well versed in silent prison sex. Which then brings up the issue of several STDs that can spread beyond genital infection.

          Amazing that he’s putting all this in writing. The kids saw pictures??? I don’t feel so well.

        • I admit that I started skimming at one point, but my eye stopped on the part where he admitted that he had synced sexual pictures to the kids’ devices. WTF? How can he talk about not exposing the kids to his escapes when he has literally pushed pictures onto their devices?

          What a nightmare.

          • I can’t tell you how validating it is to have ChumpLady certifying my ex’s level of fw. Thank you.

        • Simplify it:

          1. Each parent must not leave the children alone at home overnight when he/she has parenting time.
          2. Each parent must not allow unrelated adult guests to stay overnight at his/her family home when he/she has parenting time.
          3. Each parent has the right of first refusal if the other wants #1 or #2 above.

          Then let him explain to the family court why engaging in needle play or bukkake or anything else along that line while the kids rare in the house is basically harmless.

        • Oh em gee. I’m so sorry for you. What a creep. He “happily” fixed the problem of having inappropriate images downloaded onto your kids’ devices??? Did the kids see it? Is he aware that kids, especially once they’re older than 9 or 10, are much more aware of what goes on than we think they are? Any way you can get complete custody?

    • Should any of us be reading this highly intellectual, headache inducing, document without a security clearance??

      • Um did he mean antipathy and salve vs apathy and balm perhaps? I got a good chuckle out of his pathetic attempts to sound educated.

  • When I was little, I lived in Sterling Heights, Michigan. We had neighbors of Russian descent and every Easter they gave us Ukrainian eggs that they had made. They are raw eggs, elaborately decorated and dyed, and over time the inside of the egg dries up.

    Or at least that’s what’s supposed to happen.

    I get those same eggs out every Easter and display them in a bowl. Easter of 1984 when I was getting the the eggs out for the annual Easter centerpiece, I merely touched one egg to remove it from the box and it exploded in my face. An egg from 1966. Which had NOT dried up according to Pysanky rules.

    This letter, and many exchanges with my XH, is a similar experience.

    The problem is not you. The problem is that you’re dealing with an ancient rotten egg.

    • OMG – about the only cultural tradition I have received from my mother’s Middle European family was how to make Batik eggs. Step 1. HARD BOIL the eggs! The hardened yolks will eventually dry up if the eggs are properly wax sealed.

      Don’t you love it when family traditions become misunderstood and neglected over time so what was once a pretty cool thing ends up a hidden stink bomb? What a great analogy for dysfunctional families who enable and ignore the rot within them for generations.

    • Oh dear I grew up in Cleveland and there is also a big Ukrainian community. I always got eggs that had the inside blown out a pinhole so they were hollow.
      Great analogy!

      • /Hail from the North Coast!

        I spent every summer of my childhood in that area because my grandmother lived there. My parents moved there once they retired, and I now go to visit my mom. One of the real joys was going to the Westside Market where there butchers whose names had no vowels but fantastic sausages (mmmm….sausages…). Also, the Ukrainian store has the only chocolate covered cherries fit to eat.

  • I saw my ex’s “friends” this morning, they asked about him, I said he’s was a junkie and a alcoholic why would I want to live with him, we split up 7 years ago.
    They are fuckwits, asked ex about paying for Childs A level textbooks, he said don’t rely on him. Of course not, someone else, me, will pay.
    The child maintenance service has been disbanded in England. Condemned as not fit for purpose. New service they charge you if you and ex can’t agree on maintenance. You mean you have to tell people to provide for their children.
    Update saw ow, on bus, blanked her, as normal, she has a new phone, I have a horrible feeling fuckwit paid for it.
    She gave her children up for him, he didn’t even live with her, I suppose she deserved a present. She made sure she played loud music so I could hear it.

  • Geeezzzz, I read this and nearly puked! Who does this fucker think he is?!? Haha I’d move in silence. Cut this asshole off completely except his contact with your child. My guess is eventually he’ll stop that contact on his own. Let your lawyer deal with this shit. Perhaps, you can get a court parenting partner app and keep everything on that. Communication regarding the kids best interest only. This guy has earned his sociopath devil wings. Scary

    • Yep…..once my ex figured out that I forwarded his drivel directly to my lawyer he actually sent my lawyer a letter full of his specialness. Told my lawyer in a thousand words that he(lawyer)was just interested in overcharging me, and that I was too dumb to recognize this.Told lawyer that he(the dick) however, was way too smart for this, was now going to communicate directly with MY lawyer telling him what to do( and I would have to pay for it)and he chose not to pay his own lawyer……because the dick thought he was smarter than all of us. That worked NOT, and our lawyers have communicated ever since.

      • OMG…mine did this too!

        So strong was her innate sense of her superiority over EVERYone, that she chose to NOT retain counsel

        But instead to loudly proclaim what a “loser” i am for using a lawyer, a lawyer she promised to “run circles around”

        And run circles she did…right into a series of extremely disadvantageous decisions she made upon the advice of MY lawyer

        now she wants the court to throw those disadvantages out, because she had no idea what she was doing

        good luck with that!

        • Unfortunately we were well into the process by this time, and my ex had been using a lawyer, but lawyer fees were hampering his ability to pretend to STBHowife that he was Mr. Moneybags. My lawyer told the Dick that what he was doing was unethical……imagine that!

  • It’s like he’s trying to sound smart and calculated but really he’s just making himself look like an idiot.

    Can you imagine what a judge would say if they were to get a hold of this in regards to sharing responsibility for his children’s dentistry?! Would this be his speech as to why he shouldn’t have to help pay?

    I can see the others in the court room trying to hold in their giggles as he speaks.

    This guy really has no idea how the law works or he wouldn’t even try to send crap like this.

    Don’t ask him for assistance anymore, the software should help with that. You can also go through your lawyer for a lot of these discussions.

    If he keeps dragging out the divorce, can’t you just tell him that you’ll be requesting he pay all your legal fee’s due to his multiple attempts to delay?

  • Further….

    What is it with the imperious tone and the armchair legalese diction that cheaters adopt?

    I was “to have provided” him with her Christmas list.

    Not “given”.

    “I was to have been provided with”


    That kind of crap.

    Maybe it’s a desperate attempt to sound intelligent, educated, morally sound and grown-up in the face of having been discovered to be the absolute opposite of all those things?

    • VH, spot on! Also, the tone couldn’t be more condescending. Plus the use of the passive voice provides distance between himself and his actions–a convenient way to avoid responsibility.

      I also think this “holiness” crap is projection on his part. He speaks like someone on a high horse, mingling with the gods.

      Just pay your half, dude. This isn’t about geopolitics.

      Btw, I thought I’d heard every excuse in the cheater playbook, but doesnt’ geopolitics seem to be a new one?

      • Spinach, the geopolitics gig he used was so random! I’d have such a hard time not responding with a simple, “are you ok? no seriously, the kids are concerned”

    • They know they are losing control so they go into dictator mode.

      My XH was the same way. When we were in meetings with lawyers and discussing splitting of assets, my XH would try to argue why I didn’t deserve certain things and would also say my requests embarrassed him because it showed how little I knew about the law.

      The kicker was the lawyers would have to stop him consistently and explain to him that my requests were perfectly normal and actually reasonable considering our assets and income. The look on his face was priceless when he’d get put in his place lol

    • Velvet Hammer I think it might be ‘The Future progressive tense’ also known as bullshit from someone with the God Complex. I think it can be medicated? maybe Chinese Herbal will do it?

      • Haha. Speaking of tea, this old expression comes to mind: “What does paying your share of your son’s braces have to do with the price of tea in China?”

  • Wow. Something like this makes me soooo glad I terminated the marriage the way I did years ago.
    1.) Caught her at 4 am while I was working night shift 10pm-6am, loverboy ran out the back door like a frightened little monkey. Forgot his wallet. I mailed it to his wife with a courtesy note explaining to her how he had lost it in my bedroom while fucking my wife.
    2.) Did not get physical as I so wanted to do to the cheating bitch, but gave her some choice words and phrases.
    3.) Gave her till 8 am to get the fuck out of MY house with all of her shit (she left a lot behind that I threw out later with some photos)
    4.) Contacted a lawyer at 10 am and started the paperwork to divorce her cheating ass
    5.) Went back home to get some sleep, she was gone. Didn’t sleep well.
    6.) My lawyer worked his ass off and my divorce was final in only 9 weeks, he called me at work to congratulate me on being single again. Me and Lawyer went and had a few drinks that night to celebrate.

    • @Larry, your number one is awesome! You mailed it to his wife lol that’s so bada$$!

      Did she ever beg you to change your mind? Wish divorces could go that fast in all states. A lot of them have separation periods that have to be completed before filing.

      • LOL! “Did she ever beg you to change your mind?” um, yeah…she showed up once on my front porch one night in nearly hysterical sobbing, was hard for me to understand her words through all her sniveling. I can be one cold, hard and cruel son-of-a-bitch when crossed, she discovered that first hand that night. Later she wrote a 9 page letter and sent it apologizing, more sniveling, some half-assed excuses for fucking someone other than me in my bed, a subtle mention of thinking about committing suicide (that pleased me considerably). 9 pages of sniveling bullshit from her, a pathetic novel.
        I told her an old Chinese saying: “Door, meet Bitch. Bitch, meet door.”

        • “I told her an old Chinese saying: “Door, meet Bitch. Bitch, meet door”


          Oh, that is *sublime*.

          Well done you! ????????

          • Last little bit of info then I have to do some constructive gun cleaning…after I emailed her 9 page novel back to her with my notations neatly penciled in the margins, I was finished with her for good. 100% radio silence from then on, never saw or spoke to her again. Once the trash is thrown out, you don’t go digging through is later for anything….

            well, ok…time to clean

            • damn, not “emailed”, snail-mailed…It would be handy to have a correction/editing feature here y’know

            • As a friend of mine said, when you’ve thrown out the rubbish, you don’t go out to check how it’s doing, do you? ????

              • Well I don’t but the possible ex frequently saves things I’ve goosed because I deem them trash. I have to toss my old shoes and then take everything to the dump before he gets back!!! Else well I risk subsequently finding it back in my life somewhere, often repurposed.

              • Mine used to go through the bin and interrogate me as to why I’d thrown away a bottle of sauce that still had an inch of sauce left.

        • @Larry, you seriously handled it all like a rockstar! The whole “suicide” narrative is crazy to me.

          So she’s going to commit suicide over a reaction you had every right to have, based off her whoreish decisions?!?! That doesn’t even make sense!

          • If I thought for a moment that silly bitch was serious about killing herself, I would have bought her some rope. Like I said before, I can be a real heartless bastard when crossed

        • Larry,

          You got some satisfaction from your cheating XW then. Mine had it all planned out for her exit-affair (or at least most of it, it seems). Like you, I never abused the FW XW, not even when she finally decided to confess to “being in love w/another man.” Aka, her boss.

          Instead, I channeled my rage that night at her through my facial expressions, retorts and eyes. If looks could kill…I also gave my cheater a few choice words, but she had already abandoned me. So it didn’t mean much to her, ultimately. When I asked her if she had fucked her asshole boss in our bed, she said something like, “Oh no! That would have been in bad taste.” I shit you not.

          We’re all so much better without these fuckwits. Peace to you and your family. Stay safe and healthy, my friend.

    • Oh man that was great. Cheated on at 4 a.m. Divorced by 10 a.m. Out for a drink with lawyer for lunch! Man you rock!

      • Thanks, I think. I did some self discovery after throwing her ass to the curb, I have zero tolerance for treason from any female. After a very short season of thinking about what an idiot she had been by throwing away the good, easy life that she had with me for some little limp dick, I really thought it was funny. Can’t ever fix stupid.

        • @Larry, the saying goes “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes”

          You should teach a class on how to end it with cheaters, you’re my hero.

          • …except for the part where he “wanted to get physical” and was “considerably pleased” by the idea of her dying, and says he would have bought her rope if he thought she’d go through with it?

            There are other red flags than cheating flags?

            It’s leave a cheater, GAIN a life.

  • I am in the situation right now of a year unpaid child support and his appeal process is lucky for him taking forever to be decided by judge. It’s been a year now that all the money I was awarded in divorce is being held hostage in an escrow account. He doesn’t care and will hope it will all be eaten up in attorney’s fees before I ever see it. I just had my youngest child finally go in to get braces(much needed). I knew requesting a portion of payment would go unanswered so judge actually attached to support order a monthly amount to help with healthcare and dental for kids. Of course he isn’t paying that either. My kid takes precedence and although I will penny pinch and go without for years, in the end all 5 of my kids know what a douche bag he is and have zero contact with him. I hope he finds love in all his stupid boats, motorcycles, and cars etc. Nope. And that child support will hang around his neck like a noose for his entire life and his affair partner can deal with it too. Don’t expect anything from them. Be prepared to take care of it yourself. It’s a business deal Don’t fall for any of his attempts to guilt you or belittle you. He is projecting exactly what he cares about is money. Hold his feet to the fire. He is scared of you otherwise he wouldn’t be trying to get you to cave. Do not give in to anything you don’t want to because he is not going to turn around and do you the same. And what a pompous dick!!

  • So you are asking him to split the bill of your and HIS child’s braces and you get the speech about world economy? I think I would show it in court – it seems he is trying to avoid paying.
    I knew he was narcissistic after second sentence.
    BUT you know what I also hear? He is in such an anger, so mad at you. And you know what? He doesn’t sound like a happy person…You won:)

    • @Free_soon, I thought the same thing but you articulated it for me. He is so not happy, FreefromChaos is totally winning!

  • “The UBT could squeeze the brains out of your idiot head with its powerful pincer grip.” Baahaahaaaa

    Rage …. pure rage.

    I echo the sentiments: quit asking him for anything. Let lawyers handle all communications.

    I started putting all my focus on working harder and smarter and no longer ask X for anything. 4 kids— order says he pays for 80% of certain expenses. Not worth it to follow up with him.

    I love my kids and care and want to spend my money on them. I refuse to spend one more second of my life giving X power over me. My peace of mind has no price.

    I had to abandon the notion that a parent “should” care/support/be fair…. etc etc etc. These malignant types don’t and won’t…. ever. The sooner you accept that and go completely no contact the better.

    Meh is wonderful… come join us!

  • Oooh lovely bit of of an attempt at DARVO there. Mine is quite as wordy but equally as pompous when he wants to be. It’s all ‘you are not the boss of me’, ‘why aren’t as wordly as I am’, ‘all you care about is money you are so awful and controlling’. Freefromchaos. Sadly you have a child with this person so it might be a while since you are totally freefromchoas. No one should have to put up with this from anyone, let alone someone you had a child with.

    I hate these people.

    • Dudders: Your “all you care about is money” comment reminds me of a remark my ex made while we were married: “All you care about is a penis and a paycheck.” He even bragged while insulting! Quite the skill.

      • Oddly enough, despite the hurtfulness of his insult, I did appreciate the alliteration of penis and paycheck.

        I should have shot back with, “All you care about is kibbles and cake.”

        But, then again, I didn’t know about “cake” back then. Ah, CL, if only I’d found you sooner.

  • In my pre-Meh days, and before I had fully embraced the concepts of No Contact and Gray Rock, I would regularly look for ways to engage with Mr. Sparkles lest he run off in to the sunset with his OW without so much as a glance my way. It took me a year of CL and CN and therapy to realize I was self-sabotaging my healing by forcing any kind of contact with Mr. Sparkles.

    The first time I dropped off our son for visitation and didn’t accept his invitation to come in and watch a movie with them his chin hit the floor (he figured he still had me for cake)… the first time I ignored one of his many rants (often as narcissistic as the one above) and answered only with an “ok” or ignored completely because it was irrelevant I felt like I was back in control… I had the power back. And it only got better from there with scheduling software, filing first, and now… six years later, only text or email and only short and specific and related to our son.

    Self awareness of what I was doing, consciously and subconsciously, and then modifying that behavior was an integral step on my road to Meh. Now, it is second nature.

    Hang in there! You can do this.

    • ICanSee: Kudos to you! You’re a model for those of us who aren’t as far along in this journey. Thanks for sharing!

      • Spinach@35… I’m sorry you’re now dining at the Shit Sandwich Cafe… but you are among good company here. These site and these people saved my life, hands down. Keep coming back and keep trying your best, that’s all any of us can do in this crappy situation. If you haven’t read through the archives, I highly recommend them… you can kind of pick and choose themes you might need to “hear”. You are not alone. You will get to the better, fuckwit-free side of this and you will thrive!

  • The dick wrote “proposals” for military projects…..the most pompous, convoluted language. Designed with loopholes to protect himself, and to intimidate others so they wouldn’t ask questions. They would spend hours discussing how best to word a sentence to achieve this. Granted my writing style is more” stream of consciousness “, but this bs makes me want to????. I’d bet this jerk isn’t nearly as important as he thinks he is, but it’s always easier to get away with the lies from afar.

    • Hope Spring – oh God, I can relate!
      Ex traded bonds and thought he was the most intelligent man on the planet.
      He loved using ‘bond’ words that nobody understood; he was oblivious and always seemed proud of himself after a dinner party.

      I could totally barf as I was the one putting on the dinner party and all he could do was flap his tongue.

      I like to actually have a meaningful discussion with our friends.

  • Reading this gave me so much anxiety. This is how talking to my (now ex) husband was. His goal must always be to confuse, confuse, confuse, and therefore he avoids talking about anything meaningful. Extreme moral superiority was a trait of his also (never mind the hidden double life – cheating with a woman half his age, but details). I’ve learned you can not have conversations with this kind of person. I wish I had learned this years ago. We have children so I must communicate. I have become a master at bullet point emails with no feelings and I don’t ask questions of any kind. Ever.

  • CN, let me just say again ……you restore my faith. I felt like I was losing my sanity for years! We’ve all been there…..reading these comments reminds me yet again that Cheaters Suck! I’m going for a nice walk before it rains…… Love you!

  • So the dickhead earns a 6 figure salary and she is asking for $90/month for a year – a little over $1,000. Write a frickin’ cheque you asshole. You can achieve world peace after lunch!

  • I watched an episode of Judge Judy the other day where a father was trying to sue his ex -wife for back child support, which he had technically “overpaid.” Since their divorce, he had gone to court 5 times to get his child support reduced. He had left his job, started his own company, which failed, and was seeking redress for paying more child support than he “had” to pay. He was paying less than $200 a month.

    Judge Judy was hilarious. She told him he was not supporting his child, he was paying less than it cost to feed and care for a pet. The mother had primary custody, and regardless of anything else, it had to cost much more than his contribution to support their child. She told him that a responsible parent would seek a second job, if necessary, to provide for the needs of the child, not spend his time devising ways to reduce his contribution. He ranted about having to provide his ex wife with additional income to support her life style, again ignoring the actual cost of raising a child. Judge Judy was not impressed, and told him she would not support his desire to use the technical aspects of the law to punish his wife, so she dismissed his case.

    I have often heard men complain about the requirement to pay child support. They regard it as a benefit to the ex-wife, and deny it is not even a fraction of what it actually takes to feed, and cloth, and provide shelter, and support the health and education of a child. The amounts they complain about are usually under $400 a month. It may be significant to them, in relation to their income, but it is an insufficient amount to help support a child. It won’t even cover the cost of childcare, so that the mother can hold down her own job.

    When my children needed braces, I was very fortunate to have health insurance through my work, which covered about half of the cost. I also worked out a payment plan for the balance, and my two sons having straight teeth cost me the equivalent of a good used car financed over 5 years. My child support did not vary. My ex never considered paying additional money to cover the cost of an expense that happened after we were divorced. He made about 3 times what I made annually.

    I may be old fashioned, but when I decided to have children I knew it would be a long time commitment to provide for them, and there would be costs that were unpredictable. That is the nature of being a parent. In my opinion, those who use the technicalities of the law to pay the minimum amount required, and never take on any portion of additional expenses which crop up when raising a child, are not parents. They are sperm or egg donors. Providing for your children’s needs is not something a sane parent tries to shirk.

    Regardless of the geopolitical happenings of the world, children need to be fed, cared for, clothed and educated. Who cares what the current exchange rate is? This guy’s pontification is as irritating as a pustulant boil on the ass of humanity. He should shut up and pay up, but I doubt he will ever do either.

  • Oh man, my ex is in China now too with his “girlfriend” who wrecked our marriage while he was over there. I also think there’s a high probability she has his child over there while we were married. What a dumbass.

    I’m going through the same shit. I am very surprised at others whose ex’s are in China and it ruined their marriage. I would like to communicate with some of you if possible. I thought I was the only one! ????

    • Not China but Malaysia. Different country same kind of women targeting old bold expat western men. But, I also learned a old bold man can not be targeted unless he is actually open to it. I blamed her, then I blamed him .. 5 yrs later I just don’t care anymore.

      • Why y’all so down on Asian and Eastern European women? They are just a little more up front about being mercenaries than Western women, but no basic differences

        • Mercenary partners come in all genders. I made twice what my ex did. It’s why he married me. I was his meal ticket so he could afford his mistress. Life got really unpleasant for him when I found out and left.

      • So true. I really hate and despise them both, but I also understand the rat faced skank couldn’t have fucked the fuckwit if he hadn’t been ready and willing.

        Not that that excuses her in any way, but you know what I mean. ????

    • My cheater is in Thailand and they definitely have 2 kids together. The age gap between them is disgusting. we lived in Thailand for 11 years and the Thai girls definitely target older men and don’t care a lick if they are married. They think “the older, the better” because then the guy will die sooner.

      What these old guys don’t get is that no one in the culture has any respect for them and you can see it in their eyes. The part that has my kids and I laughing at STBX is that 99% of the time, the Thai girls keep their Thai boyfriend on the side. And since my STBX can’t speak or read the language it will take walking in on them to catch her cheating. We even laugh that she and her extended family can be mocking him right in front of his face and he would never know.

  • My sister’s wanker ex in Denmark told her he didn’t have the money to send her child support. She had 4 kids, the 4th was classed as legally blind and was growing like a weed. He had brought his Russian whore over, and her kids AND her mother (don’t think he knew that they were a package deal) and he couldn’t send her any money when she said child no. 4 needed a winter coat. In Denmark. In February. My entire family came together and sent money to her on more than one occasion while he was entertaining his Russian whore (who – and I bet you can’t believe this happened – got tired of him when the money ran out and kicked him out of “their” home). Yeah, he didn’t see any of that coming but it was easy enough for him to forget he had 4 kids who needed to eat!

    • These Russian and Chinese women are ruthless! Kicking your ex out of his own home! Fantastic. These idiot cheaters are so stupid they don’t realize this is nothing more than a business transaction for these women and they are not in it to lose.

      • Women who come from other cultures may not understand the way things operate in the United States. If they come from a culture which limits their ability to work, or become educated because they are women, they may think US women “have it made.” There are many cultures where men have complete control over finances, and where marriage may be a business arrangement, and a man can have concubines, or mistresses, if he can afford them. They are used to seeking a more comfortable financial position in exchange for whatever services the man desires. I’m not defending this — just stating the obvious. If a man from the US is married, and he is working and living in another culture/country, he knows what the US laws and norms are. It is his responsibility to live up to his marriage vows. Try not to judge the other cultures with US values. We may not condone the behavior, or the consequences, but the women of these cultures probably see life differently than we do.

        This being said, I also think there is a strong mythology believed by US men about the subservience or temperament of women from these cultures. These women may have to live with their cultural norms, but that does not mean they like said norms. They may act subservient during courtship, but once they become “an American wife,” it is amazing how fast they can adapt a different cultural perspective. One of my uncles was in the Air Force, he thought he married a meek and mild girl from Okinawa. She turned into a totally different wife once she reached the US shore. My boy’s father eventually married a Japanese woman over 12 years younger than he is, who had two children from two different US fathers, (one had married her, one had not). She had a very different attitude when they were dating, than the one she quickly developed after they married. I am very content that neither of them actually got what they thought they were getting when they married.

        Just try to remember that it is difficult enough to have a successful relationship when your culture and beliefs are similar, and you live in your native country. All that glitters is not gold.

  • there’s a name for this rhetorical tactic, it’s called a “gish gallop” , and essentially it’s what you see – a rapid fire barrage of unrelated nonsense designed to mire you in responding to the crazy unrelated stuff and avoids the original topic.

    Don’t engage, let the lawyers handle it.

  • Typical cheater. Up on a high horse, accusing their victim of greed and negligence. Trying to shame the person they abused and abandoned.

    Send them all to Pluto.

  • What I’d want to reply — “While I do apologize for my complete lack of understanding as to how geopolitics and the orthodontic bills are related, I do still insist that you pay half of said orthodontic bills. I have cc’d my lawyer. I am sure she will be in touch with yours.”

    What I’d actually do — forward his email and said orthodontic bill to my lawyer to forward to his lawyer. Grey rock.

  • So, he’s been court ordered to pay 1800 euros. He chooses to move and work in another country, where he doesn’t earn euros. He converts the child support payment to yuans, decides THAT is what he was ordered to pay, and converts it back again to euros at the current rate, to figure out what he actually ‘should’ be paying.

    O. M. G.

    I have to say, once you’re far past this bullshit, this will make you roll on the floor laughing.

    The stupidity and cupidity of this message is so clear and SO RIDICULOUS! He’s an asshole, and an especially stupid one, who thinks he’s sooooo much smarter than everyone else.

    Like so many narcs, including mine. He was shocked that the division of assets didn’t go his way. He convinces himself that the law would support him making all sorts of changes to the child support and expense sharing that was actually court ordered (when he didn’t SHOW UP, or send a lawyer, for the hearing he forced). Funny how he tells me that, then never follows up legally.

    (And he says how much he loves the kids and longs to reconnect with them, but is SO CHINTZY about every single penny that comes to me for their support. That’s actually sad.)

    I hope the OP gets this all straightened out and the divorce finalized SOON! And I hope she can ask for some of her legal expenses to be covered by HIM.

  • Wait, there’s more.

    Two weeks ago I got a call from the orthodontist’s office politely asking when we were going to send the second payment. I referred them to XH, who has the appropriate checkbook, WHO DECIDED AND AGREED WITH ME earlier this year to pay up front for orthodontic treatment in two payments so we would get the discount for doing so. Issue handled. Or so I thought. I forgot nothing can ever be simple with a cheater.


    I arrive at the weekly business meeting with the XH. An invoice and a copy of the contract from the orthodontist’s office is at my seat at the conference table.

    He is angry at ME.

    Why did they call him?!
    Why do they want the payment now?!
    Why didn’t I call him to give him a heads up that I
    asked them to call him when they called me?
    He was blindsided! Why don’t they send an invoice when the payment is due?!
    Why do they bill this way?!

    I am the problem? (WTF?!)


    I am STILL the problem and the target. Uh oh, there’s some disordered thinking going on here and I cannot see the libretto!

    I told him discuss his issues with the orthodontist’s office with the orthodontist’s office. This is the email I got the next day:

    “ I did talk with the Dentist office administration. Apparently, they do not send invoices!? ☹

    They just send out a late notice 30 days after our payment is due. REALY… I advised the person I don’t like late notifications and expect to receive an invoice with preferable 30 days to pay.

    I realized I was being testy yesterday. I felt like I was assuming the administration of your project and receiving a late notice without fare warning. Yes we signed a contract 6 months ago, but they are not practicing normal business processing. I expect this is not there first frustrated review.

    In the future if they call you please give me a heads up. I do not expect any more interaction as we are paid in full. But just in case.”

    Yep. She is not our daughter but “a project” of mine that I dropped the ball on and he therefore had to assume administration of.

    Yep. Read that email carefully again, for insanity emphasis.

    My reply….

    “Hi XH,

    At no time were you “assuming administration of my project.”

    You are XXX’s father. We discussed and decided the orthodontic plan together. We agreed the payments were to come out of the XXX Properties account. You have all the documents I do. It is a WE project. You have the checkbook for that account. For those reasons I referred them to you when they called me. Directing them to you, the person with the checkbook, was the appropriate response.

    As I said yesterday, I’m concerned that you targeted me as the problem. I have nothing to do with their billing practices. You have an issue with it. The problem and the solution is between you and their office.

    I have never heard you talk to your parents, our general manager, our bookkeeper, our receptionist, our accountant, etc., in the disrespectful way you regularly talk to me. I expect you to talk to me like you talk to them.



    “Thanks for the call….I’ll send you payment today.”

    Somehow I have found great reserves of mental energy being on my own…..


    • That’s wonderful VH! You did a great job, really you did!

      It amazes me he still thinks you are his wife?! Ummmm no! You are not responsible to “give him a heads up” on ANYTHING anymore! He decided you didn’t have the wife job when he cheated! Wifes give their husbands heads up, that job is not yours any longer. He can’t have it both ways!

      When he forgets, remind him..Youre not his wife anymore, TIME TO GROW THE F UP ! ! !

      High five!

  • Hahaha, Japanophile here & life-long military brat who has watched *A LOT* of NHK World in English for years.

    That South China Sea BS wouldn’t be a ‘thing’ if China would stop trying to grab up tiny uninhabited & mostly worthless islands there, scaring the bejeezus out of Japan (& South Korea), both of which have treaties with the USA & Australia & claims to said piles of rocks in the sea.

    If Mr Chaos wants to get away from the allegedly imminent war (he’s too stupid to know a lot of this is posturing, those are ‘military exercises’ done regularly by the navies of all said countries for practice, they’ve done so for DECADES, the war drums are not beating nearly as loud as Mr Chaos’s delusional & pathetic excuses for why he can’t pay 90 Euros a month for the kids who he helped create to get proper orthodonture), you’re not stopping him.

    Does his Chinese schmoopie need that paltry amount of money (at least when compared to the couple’s alleged six-figure income) that badly? Aren’t they happily raking in 6 figures?

    Even with an alleged 6.27% year over year drop in CNY/EUR, we’re talking about (per today’s exchange rates thank you $103.84 per month for the kids he had a hand (or penis or whatever) in creating.

    He really shouldn’t abuse (or arithmetic), your kids with the Chaos Lord could as easily figure this out as any of us can just by plugging the relevant numbers into a website. That 1.800 to 1.687 nonsense is just numeric mindfuck, he’s playing the rage channel on Mindfuck TV because how dare everything including things financial & geopolitical NOT go his way!?!?

    One wonders if Chinese Schmoopie isn’t living up to The Dream of Poor Chaos Lord, but if that’s the case, hahaha thank you Karma, we love your fabulous sense of humor & timing (you think the pandemic maybe also has something to do with lower exchange rates?).

    Boohoo, the exchange rate went down. Stuff happens.

    Poor Chaos Lord, he’s whining about something totally geopolitically & economically foreseeable but as cheaters totally suck at long term thinking & planning (it’s all about following the in-the-moment, what-feels-good-to-me impulse & also their genitals) of course he’s losing money to an unfair world (not to mention how unfair he must feel over having to pay money *in any currency* to the wife & children he’s unilaterally betrayed).

    Life is really working over Poor(er) Chaos Lord at the moment, someone get him a Sphinx cat to stroke already, but then again wasn’t it ‘strange kitty stroking’ that got him into this mess in the first place?

    But yeah if Mr Chaos wants to be less afraid & upset, he & his CNY/ renminbi ought to relocate someplace besides China. Ideally not anywhere you Ms. FreeFromChaos or the FreeFromChaos offspring. Super-ideally someplace that has a treaty between where Ms FreeFromChaos lives that honors judgments in divorce cases.

    If only Poor(er) Chaos Lord were smarter he not only wouldn’t have a Chinese Schmoopie, he wouldn’t be doing business with her (unless that’s some kind of euphemism for ‘sex’ & not strictly financial/economic commingling).

    But as Ms. FreeFromChaos is recovering from chump-ness/betrayal imposed upon her by the Poor(er) Chaos Lord & is now smart enough to have representation, run this email by them (it might be time for some forensic accounting, this outburst might be either Chaos Lord has suffered some financial reversals, or more likely, ***he hasn’t***, he’s just getting more spiteful & greedy, he’s likely got stuff squirreled away from all of you (yes even Chinese Schmoopie his associate in way too much).

    The buzzwords here for Ms Free From Chaos to say around her representation & possibly the judge are ‘forensic auditing’. An appropriately trained accountant can make Captain Chaos cry harder than any of the piddly numbers thrown about here: 6.27% year over year exchange rate losses or an additional $103.84 / month to the Children of Chaos for another reasonable & foreseeable expense (orthodonture) will seem cheap by comparison should a half-decent forensic accountant see this missive or more importantly should the judge see it (court ordered forensic audits are the scariest kind).

    As for the mindfuck around the therapist, Ms. FreeFromChaos might want to check in with her son regarding “Mr. Moraël”. I smell a rat/Chaos Lord here, this is something also worth pointing out to Ms. FreeFromChaos’s legal representation. Everyone here has horror stories to tell regarding therapists & if Poor(er) Chaos Lord is a disordered person (there’s an excellent book by Bill Eddy on how to deal with what he deems ‘high conflict personalities’ or HCPS, it’s worth sending away for a copy, Eddy is a social worker, an attorney & a mediator who specializes in family law cases that are oh so complicated & contentious like this one apparently is), I’d be worried for these kids in 2 ways 1) the mindfuck virus Poor(er) Chaos Lord has tried to infect them with & 2) assessing the risk that the kids might have inherited the genetic tendencies to become Cluster B Disordered Persons or Future HCPs. A totally different kind of therapist is needed to fix them, they are rare & few & the prime window for prevention is while they are still children. Definitely praying for Ms. FreeFromChaos & her children with Poor(er) Chaos Lord here.

    • Yes please delete Larry! He’s a troll or a cheating ex that played the reverse victim card (accused spouse of cheating). Or he’s an ***!

  • Hey Larry, I’m starting to wonder why the hell you’re on this site? I think anything you say should be deleted.

  • So you understand why a man would cheat on his wife if she’s somewhat “ portly “

    Well she’s fat , she deserves it ! She’s a nag she deserves it . She’s getting old she deserves it !!

    And I’m sure every cheating woman out there could say the same about portly middle aged man

    No one absolutely no one deserves to be cheated on . I think you’ve got the wrong website Larry

  • Maybe Mr. CL can shed some light on my primary quandary.

    It’s common to hear of massive back child supports being owned, All of which a court mandated and, is aware of. It appears to me that the law has no teeth to enforce it. Or, chooses not to. Wage garnishment? Liens? Taxes? Asset seizure/liquidation?

    There’s an old saying, …”you can’t get blood from a turnip”, meaning it’s pointless and costly to pursue $$ from someone who has nothing.

    We all know that the divorce is the prize, and in SO many ways. I’m extremely lucky because all my kids are grown and prosperous by their own sweat. And my heart goes out to my chumps that struggle daily with making ends meet and sacrificing to maintain a life.

    But for the life of me I can’t get my head around how the judicial system side steps enforcing compliance.

    • It’s not just in America, either, where the courts award something, and there is no system to enforce it.

      I don’t know about child support, (fuckwit and I didn’t have children, thank God) but in our divorce, the Court awarded me costs, which fuckwit ignored and didn’t pay.

      My solicitor said my only recourse was to take him back to Court, or sue him in Small Claims Court.

      I asked her what on earth was the point of the Court awarding costs if there was no system to enforce it? She basically shrugged and said that was the way it was.

      Not enforcing *child support* is of course much more serious, and my heart goes out to chumps who have bred with a fuckwit, and struggle to get what their children are *entitled* to, it’s iniquitous.

      In America, of course, different states have different laws, I understand, and that must be even more frustrating.

      • In many countries there’re state agencies which enforce child support payments for no legal fees if an idiot parent doesn’t pay. The agencies are fierce and ruthless, as they should be.

    • A term comes to mind; maybe I’m misusing it……physician heal thyself. Could it be that many of the lawyers and judges would have to pay up? Call me jaded……

      • Typical narc response.

        Let’s draw attention away from the fact that you want me to support our son by talking about geopolitics because by the time you finish listening/reading you will have forgotten that the child is also mine with all the response that entails.

        Then I will insult you and your intelligent by even asking me to support OUR child.

        Also, look I’m busy fucking someone else while you do the dirty work. You’re bothering me now, so I’ll sign off until you see reason. Ok!!

  • Yes it’s unfair.
    1. Cheating is fraud and abuse (cheater could have had honest conversations/leave if they had irreconcilable issue(s) with a chump).
    2. Chumps & children suffer further (financial abuse) when cheaters do not pull their financial weight. Add in different earning power one household budgets carefully to provide for kids, the other splashes cash on designer gear.
    Dents my meh! But it’s a case of trust that they suck and being glad to be moving/moved on.

  • FreeFromChaos,

    First of all, great username! Secondly, it’s scary how much your FW XH sounds like my FW XW. I was the one deserving of child support after she abandoned me and our family, but all I got/get from her is how I took advantage of this situation to get all the money out of her. Right, while I was in complete shock for at least two years, my heart totally blown apart, wondering what the fuck had happened to the partner I trusted and loved for over 24 years, but whom had utterly betrayed me and the family. Also, she said that all I do is spend my time thinking of how to get more money out of her. Yes, that’s all I think about.????

    This is coming from the woman who was told based on our state’s child support table, she’d need to provide me w/ $126 and change per month and balked at that. That was the only thing required of her monetarily in the divorce stipulations. And God forbid I ask her to help equally share the cost of our son’s new bike, or suggest she might have to help out more w/child support since I’ve been out of a job for most of the time since 3/18, paying my bills w/my retirement money. She got upset w/me via text or email (I can’t remember which) back in March when I broached that. After that? I decided to say fuck her; I’ll deal w/it. It’s not worth listening to her bullshit.

    So, I can only hope it makes you feel a little better that you’re not alone in dealing w/an idiot ex. It happens regardless of gender. It keeps coming back to these selfish, cheating assholes working from a similar playbook. It’s really goddamn pathetic.

    I’m glad you’re able to see some bright side in how far away this fuckface of an ex is from you and your child. I say, get what you can, when you can from these idiots (i.e.,for reasonable requests concerning the children). Because they aren’t likely to give much, or anything on their own initiative.

    My FW XW unfortunately lives an eighth of a mile behind my house, as the crow flies. It was our house, ’til she did her disappearing act, and then I bought her out, and made it mine. Can’t wait to either sell it when my son graduates high school in four years, or rent it out and move on.

    Luckily, in the last month it seems the XW decided to keep quiet for the most part (hard grey rock on my part, always). It’s been pretty blissful. It might be because she’s vacationing w/her pathetic AP. I don’t care. I’ll take it. I hope you get to that point w/your FW, too, as soon as you’re able.

    FreeFromChaos, I’m sure you will be fine, long-term. You are mighty. I wish you and your family only the best. Take care, be safe, stay healthy. We’re all here for you.

  • Wow – seems he is experiencing stress and probably regret about where he chose to live 🙂 🙂 🙂

  • I too went through a 5 year divorce. Sadly, the court battle doesn’t end there. My attorneys bill prior to being finalized (December 31, 2019) amounted to $139,000. The judge finally ruled on child support, but for 6 months, his attorney wouldn’t return the signed income withholding order. Of course days before our motion to force submission, the other side submitted a motion for modification. Using a global pandemic as the significant event to modify.

    The court battle will never end. I filed for divorce when my children were 16, 14 and 12. If I’m lucky, I’ll get 1 year of child support for 1 child, as two of them are now adults.
    Oh, did I mention he spent over a million dollars of marital money in that 5 years? He also Failed to mention he hadn’t filed taxes five years prior, and tried to pass off half of his $300,000. tax bill (that I learned about right before trial in a motion to compel taxes. A Fight that cost me in attorneys fees about what I would have paid to the IRS.

    I held out hope for a very long time that the courts would hold him accountable – they don’t. If your ex doesn’t like what the courts rule, there’s always another motion they can file, another stalling tactic and astronomical attorneys fees to encourage you to give up.

    I was a stay at home parent for the entirety of our marriage, and he was a 6 figure income earner. The one with the money always wins, that’s just the way the system works.

    Now the plot twist… my attorney hired me as the office receptionist right before the judges final ruling. Pro-bono legal fees …. #neverstopfighting

  • FreeFromChaos, Chump Lady is right – get the parenting software, and if there is a way of managing child support payments without contact, use it … and if he doesn’t cough up the spondos for additional costs without all this bullsh*t contact with you, then find a way to pay for it yourself. In Australia we are lucky, there is a government agency that will manage collecting child support and passing it on to you if you don’t wish to deal directly with the other party; one step before mandatory garnishing of wages. Once I had set up the parenting software, and arranged collection of child support through the government agency, I sent ex the invoice for the school fees. He sent it back, with a pompous note asking what it meant. You know what, that f*cker knew damn well he had to pay half to the school costs as per our arrangement. *eyeroll*. Rather than waste time in negotiation, I paid the school fees and every other cost related to bringing up my lovely son, including therapy costs – and I arranged all his appointments on my time so ex had no input at all into that part of my son’s life (except causing the need for it in the first place of course). A couple of months later, my son decided to live full time with me, upping the child support payments quite significantly (much to ex’s fury, I heard from a stray remark dropped by one of my other children – the one out of five who still has friendly contact with him). I have blocked every possible way of communication with ex except snail mail and I can’t ever see him bothering to buy a stamp. Your and your child’s well-being are priceless, it is so worth it to have no contact.

  • ah this reminds me of the last message I received, after I finally stopped dancing the PickMeDance and asked for no contact.

    “I would not be opposed to meeting you one last time because it is a good occasion to show my respect towards you, which I deeply feel and would like to thank you in person for the years we spent together. I am not the same person I was before I met you, and I mean it in a good sense.”

    Not replying to that message was the best thing I have done for myself.

  • This is just, JUST like Wasband!
    The weird, convoluted language used to sound important. The patronizing AF tone: I was informed that our eight year old daughter is not “independently mobile”. Really, dumbass? Thanks for that ! I finally understand why I have taken her to hundreds of therapy appointments!

    Then-wait for it- comes the character destruction: if YOU CARED about what was happening in global politics, of course YOU WOULD KNOW that I cannot possibly afford half this bill!

    After that, the prediction of your behavior and assumption of your motives: You’re not gonna squeeze every last penny out of me! You’re going to blah blah blah in front of the court like you always [have never] done.

    Switch the pronouns and you have the truth. Disordered people tell you exactly who they are in that backward way.

    I love how he said “accidents were avoided” as if he’s implying he prevented WWIII.

    I thought for sure Wasband was the only one to constantly pull that bullshit taffy. Apparently not. WOW.

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