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Confrontation Flops?

On yesterday’s post, I advised “Jenn” to not, for the love of all that is holy, confront her husband about his Craigslist “adventures” ads.

With chump hindsight (which is most of this site — regret served up as warning, with a side dollop of snark) you can see the utter futility of confrontation. May as well stick a sign on your forehead that says, “Lie to me”

But when you’re a new-born chump, fresh in the nightmare, confronting a cheater about Craigslist profiles feels like an urgent thing to do! They will EXPLAIN it! Surely this cannot be what it looks like?

Chumps immediately fall into the skein. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

Next rookie mistake, we deludedly think this is some sort of teaching moment.

I shall confront you with my FEELINGS about your treachery, and you will SEE THE LIGHT. The heavens will part, Jesus will descend a staircase of clouds, and you shall have INSIGHT!

And yet… it never works out like that.

What happens next? The three channels — rage, self-pity, “charm.” Time you could’ve spent lawyering up, freezing credit, and getting STD checks.

So today’s Friday Challenge is to tell CN how that whole confrontation thing worked out for you? Did you get a unicorn? What happened?

TGIF!

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Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • He smirked, and said “are you surprised?”

    I think my face was literally that open-mouthed emoji 😦. I threw a cup of water and packed up that night.

  • Omg please please don’t!! Many here already know my story but it bears repeating for the new chumps. The ex was cheating with a friend of ours. Got caught. Begged to stay. Asked me to remarry him which stupid me did—in Central Park no less. He spent the next 4 years destroying us financially—all of the retirement money gone at 56( $500000). He cheated again with current Schmoopie and left. After abusing me every which way possible. You see she has her own home big pension and rich daddy that thinks he’s another son. Not my circus. I get to work until I drop or sell my house( which I only have because he couldn’t borrow any more money from the bank—apparently a million dollars of debt was our limit). Please don’t be me!!

    • ((((Newlady15))))
      I come here also as a lesson to new Chumps, but I do not preach it 1/4 as good as you do.( And I do not post here often)
      When I see your posts I feel certain they help new Chumps.
      I am so very sorry for all your pain, but I want to reach out to you, hug you so tight virtually & tell you, YOU are so Mighty!

    • This happens a lot. Divorce is the first thing you should do, even if you have a unicorn because the potential for financial misfeasance is way too great.

      • Sorry but I can’t resist having some fun here because I was not familiar with the term misfeasance (only malfeasance).
        First, let’s get our terms right here:
        Misfeasance is the act of engaging in an action or duty but failing to perform the duty correctly. Misfeasance refers to an action that is unintentional. However, malfeasance is the willful and intentional act of doing harm.
        Next let’s make the terms fit the situation:
        -Male feasance- when your husband or male partner does you harm.
        – Miss Feasance- when your wife or female partner does you harm.
        Thanks Kellyp for enlightening me and stimulating my creativity this morning!

      • 👍

        It is the first advice I would give to anyone in this situation. Get the legal separation as quick as you can. You can always reconcile later if you happen to have a unicorn.

        Also, make that unicorn wine and dine and pursue you. I mean he pursued the whore, you should at least get that. Then after he pursues you for a few months to a year, dump his unicorn ass unless you are really really sure you want to chance it again.

        • Letting a known cheater “pursue” chump when said chump may be at risk of contracting STDs? Just for the chance to dine out for free and collect sparkly trinkets in exchange for kibbles and cake? Hell, no.

          Running a game like that might feel like payback at the time, but surely chumps have far better things to do. N’est-ce pas?

          • my “husband” has been “trying” so “hard”… its almost as if i am standing by to see what happens here (from the outside)
            dday was april 3. the cheating (supposedly) happened six years ago late at night in a car while my husband was working a night job.
            i have been in the dark about this, helped to raise his daughter. ten birthdays i have known and been with her. ten christmas’. summers. ten years of every.single.weekend. the homework that even he didnt know how to do. i have honestly felt like the responsible one out of both her bio parents. it was his ex who he cheated with.
            the one we talk about being dysfunctional. the one who breaks his daughters heart. the one who doesnt have a car or job most times and expects us to take care of everythingbehind the scene, while she shines as mom. this is who he snuck around with. i cant even breathe sometimes. i know its not going on now, but still. it did. and what a total waste. i dont know whats better- being left for another or this.

            • Shan,
              Get your finances in order, save money, open checking and savings in your name. Consult a lawyer and he can advise you on what to do and about the daughter.
              I learned the hard way that losing your temper and confrontation does no good. All he’ll do is lie and make you feel like you are losing your mind. I’ve been there & done that. Found out mine had been cheating for four years and was ready to get divorce when he had massive stroke and doesn’t remember the past.
              A good counselor helps a lot too.
              Protect yourself. Cheaters are lying, sleazy slimeballs. Praying for you.. Be strong!!!

      • Amen. Freeze those assets, pull a credit report FAST.
        Wasband had credit cards I did not know about. I had to pay them anyway.

        • I was freaked out abut that. I pulled all the cards I had access to, but who knows what cards he had. He had a lot of charges on our card that were for schmoopie and her kids. I gave all that to my lawyer and it was part of the leverage to get him to assume the debts.

          He took on all the debt so I didn’t have to pay any of the cards off. If he hadn’t paid them off, I would have had to take him to court again, but he did. It has been a long time now, and I have run several credit reports, so I know I am clear.

          They will spend lots of money on schmoopie. Schmoopie isn’t going to stay hidden away, unless there is something in it for her, and regardless of his grand illusions about his sparkle dick, that just won’t be enough.

    • That is horrible NL. I hate that you had to deal with that.

      When I found out my FW was cheating, I pulled all our credit card history for the last year. I found many charges on there that were obviously for Schmoopie and her three sons.

      I called him immediately and said you need to file for divorce now. He didn’t want to, but he did do it within the week. In the mean time I got a lawyers reference from a trusted friend in the adjoining city and put him on retainer. As soon as I got the paperwork, I drove it to the lawyers office and he got going and got us legally separated quickly. I also gave him all the charge information, and the bank statement where there was suspicious withdrawals made.

      I was freaked out that he was going to run up a bunch of debts I would have to pay off, though honestly it didn’t seem to me like he was the type. But, I couldn’t take that chance.

      Having said that, a few years after they married they together ran up over 200 thousand dollars in gambling debts and had to file bankruptcy. That also surprised me when my son told me about it. I mean not that I thought he was great anymore, but up to his time with schmoopie he had at least seemed to be financially responsible. So weird.

        • I did, and frankly I am not sure how I did it as I was in shock. I claim my faith overtook me and I just did it.

          I do remember by dad telling me I needed to get out of that situation. He was so scared I would go back to him, which I did for a week, but it was after the legal separation, so I was still financially protected. (I checked with my lawyer)

  • It still leaves me with my jaw dropped thinking is this really the person I am married to. How can that be. How much bullshit is this. When did you learn to lie so easily. Real people are not like this. Paste the huge wtf sticker on my forehead.

    • That’s where us chumps get stuck: there’s no way someone could lie this effortlessly, especially someone I’ve put my utmost trust in. It’s demented and evil if you really think about it.

      • So true. A year later and I still have to stop myself from downplaying his BS. Mine is a very covert narcissist. Is very generous, helpful and seems to have a strong moral code. It’s a mind fuck

        • @chumpedtoomuch That’s how mine is too!! I’ve finally come to terms with the fact that other people are going to forever think he’s awesome, so matter what he did to me.

          • I’m in the same boat. Everyone falls for my cheater’s charm (I can hear his ‘soothing’ salesman voice right now – total BS). On some level I’m envious of the chumps who were married to the obviously depraved cheaters.

            • Oh yes! The thing is too that my adult kids know what he did; have no respect for him but because he’s their Dad, he’s fun and they feel sorry for him because he has no friends(!), they spend time with him! It is the only thing post divorce that still cripples me because I just know (call it instinct) that he’s playing them exactly as he played me! It breaks my heart but they have to learn for themselves!!

            • I’m not sure there are “obviously depraved cheaters” outside of those who are felons, who are “obviously depraved” because they commit crimes. There may be some who stop showing their fake faces to their chumped partners or some who are the “aliens stripping the planet of resources” type who scorch the landscape and then move on to create their illusions for a new set of marks. They’re all con artists at heart. They invest a great deal in looking like they’re fun, they’re charming, they’re so “nice,” they’re helpful, they’re “family men” or they’re masters of the universe.

              • When we look a cheater married to someone else, they’re depravity and dishonesty and selfishness is obvious because WE HAVE NOT BEEN CHARMED OR GASLIGHTED BY THEM. They look “obviously depraved” because we aren’t their victims.

              • ” they’re charming, they’re so “nice,” they’re helpful, they’re “family men” or they’re masters of the universe.”

                Much like celebs do, example: Michael Landon.

              • Beans and Sunrise,
                Mine also has zero friends – but was very close to his family because he gave and gave and gave and they CONSTANTLY praised him ( and of course they would praise him, he was super good to them all the time).
                Yes to the elaborate meals. Once again, all about getting the praise – no simple spaghetti dinner for family visits- had to be praise worthy. He had to be the one in the lead so he could get the credit.
                I started to notice how he always took the credit ( given to him by his adoring family) even when things were my idea etc.
                And yes again – personal opinions rarely voiced (and only with coaxing) – he was a listener. It’s like he didn’t even have an opinion even though he was very intelligent and well spoken.

            • To everyone who had the super nice guy cheater, ditto. I reread an article last night on the cheater people pleaser (because I’m still haunted by the love I thought we had) and in my case it has been the only thing that describes my XH perfectly.
              Basically, what I got out of it as he was lying to me all along – always doing everything to make everyone else happy (needed the validation), saying what everybody wanted to hear … never being honest about his own needs, likes and dislikes… and building all kind of silent resentment.

              Then OW comes along and blows more smoke up his ass than he can get at home…. he is sucks up that attention.

              It helps me to realize that the lying wasn’t a sudden thing. The lying just took a different form from the beginning – idealization, being the best man on the planet- being super easy going – never having a complaint. All lies.
              Then later, betrayal lies which stunned, because I thought I had been living with the most loving, wonderful man on earth. To the world he no doubt seems this way because in a sense he is that way… it’s just not authentic – or long lasting in my case.

              Now I realize he’s a sad empty man with no depth, strength or sense of himself. The OW thinks she got a prize because he is no doubt people pleasing to the max with her.

              • Jesus….were we married to the same man?!?!

                Super sweet, polite, quiet, friendly, made friends effortlessly (but never kept them because he cut them all off after about six months, i.e. when they started to get too close). Never any opinions of his own. But later you realize that he’s holding grudges from ten years ago over shit you had ZERO clue about. People pleaser. Twisted fucker.

              • I knew the woman really well that worked in a office near my ex. She told me that she would see schmoopie go in his office a lot, and for a long time he left the door open.

                She would talk to him about all her troubles, and poor me stuff. Then at some point he started shutting the door.

                Pizzed me off, I mean I am glad she told me, but it would have been nice if she had mentioned it early on. Maybe I could have gotten away from that shithead sooner, and also blew up his jollies.

              • I was married to that man too. Now he cooks elaborate meals and drives teens who have their license all over town and then resents THEIR lack of appreciation.

              • https://www.yourtango.com/experts/hilary-silver/1-danger-being-married-people-pleaser

                This is the article that sums up my cheating people pleaser for those who are interested. Oops my last post seemed to take off before I could check it for mistakes. I think the need to feel special, needed and completed by another is like a drug in the extreme cases. And since they are SKILLED at lying, even to themselves- the shock and denial is huge.
                You really don’t see it coming from this type of ‘wonderful’ type of cheater.

              • I got one of those. Boy was I blindsided! Once in a blue moon I got a glimpse of his real feelings, then I’d be hurt and confused. If I tried confronting him about it, I’d get gaslighted. I am STILL struggling to reconcile the man I married with the level of his acting out, lying, lack of real remorse and cruelty he displayed after D-Day. Then he came back at me within a month or two, let’s renew our wedding vowels. I was so shocked and confused, I asked him how does that make any sense? 17 years married at the time.
                My Mum was like ‘what’?!
                So much has happened since, I could write a book about how not to be a chump after D -Day. It all comes down to him saying he loved me, but he loved himself more. Apparently in his world, that’s real love. He has loved me in so many little ways, and been reliable in others. I see it now, as more about control than love.
                Still a chump. 😢
                I need to love and forgive myself. He has charmed many, even a hardened ‘I’ve seen it all’ counsellor. Even she shook her head when she met him, and said ‘he was not what I expected from what you told me’
                She was furious, the she meets him, and was scratching her head. 🤷‍♀️ She was like, I see what you’re dealing with. Chumpedtoolate, I hear you.

              • I got one of those. Boy was I blindsided! Once in a blue moon I got a glimpse of his real feelings, then I’d be hurt and confused. If I tried confronting him about it, I’d get gaslighted. I am STILL struggling to reconcile the man I married with the level of his acting out, lying, lack of real remorse and cruelty he displayed after D-Day. Then he came back at me within a month or two, let’s renew our wedding vowels. I was so shocked and confused, I asked him how does that make any sense? 17 years married at the time.
                My Mum was like ‘what’?!
                So much has happened since, I could write a book about how not to be a chump after D -Day. It all comes down to him saying he loved me, but he loved himself more. Apparently in his world, that’s real love. He has loved me in so many little ways, and been reliable in others. I see it now, as more about control than love.
                Still a chump. 😢
                I need to love and forgive myself. He has charmed many, even a hardened ‘I’ve seen it all’ counsellor. Even she shook her head when she met him, and said ‘he was not what I expected from what you told me’
                She was furious, the she meets him, and was scratching her head. 🤷‍♀️ She was like, I see what you’re dealing with. She couldn’t imagine he was the same guy.

          • Big hugs to you & your precious Children ((((SupineChump))))

            sometimes I think that is all we have- the truth, the true truth. There is comfort in that, but there is is no band aid big or strong enough, to cover that hurt.

          • Same here guys! My cheater works with special needs kids and sells himself to everyone. People think he’s a super nice guy and I can’t fault them for it because I also believed it. But when that mask falls off..watch out! I’d love for just one person to admit to me someday that they know who he really is too…not holding my breath though

            • Jo– My middle child was in special needs programs for a year and a half due to cognitive effects of a severe health condition (now largely recovered). I would have liked to find even one person who worked in special needs who even *seemed* heroic at that time. My child was treated horribly and repeatedly put in danger. Not one of the smarmy rats who worked in two schools would do the right thing when it came to it. It was terrifying.

              Since then I have made far-flung friends who work in the field who are, in fact, dedicated to the wellfare of their students and clients. But I met these people through special ed reform movement channels when I was writing about abusive practices in schools and institutions. They’re the ones who fed me horror stories and connected me with families whose children had been abused or denied services or even killed (no one believes the statistics on deaths in special ed and ibstitiinal programs. Beyond shocking). These professionals were the first to criticize the system and point out that the mentality of many in the field is pathological.

              So don’t worry that “everyone” would assume your ex is automatically heroic. Some of us are very wary of those playing “rescuer” to the “less fortunate.” The current system tends to weed out potential whistleblowers, which leaves the field light on talented, genuinely caring souls (who often quit due to PTSD) and heavy on callous careerists, hypocrites, cowards and creeps. When I do encounter good eggs, it’s because their intrinsic and conscious integrity make them tough and canny enough to survive in a sea of shitheads and scary politics. Those are my favorite people.

              • Wow. This story makes me so sad for your child. I am so sorry to hear about your experience. Ex would often mock some of his former students and it gave me an icky feeling. Stupid me would attribute this to him being desensitized by working in the field but what I now know is that he just actually lacks empathy. I do remember him mentioning that he had to be investigated or something because a parent accused him of being too rough physically restraining one of his students. He did not end up getting in trouble for anything. I of course always believed his long speeches about how much he helped these kids. Now I question everything he’s told me.

              • Jo–

                Thank you so much for the straight-turkey response about your ex. I always wondered what the SpEd shitheads I encounteted were like at home. I can’t tell you how rectifying it is to hear someone giving a truthful behind-the-scenes review of what that “type” is really like personally– the type who considers themselves so “heroic” for deigning to work with “lepers” that, well, it’s okay to get a little “rough” once in awhile.

                I feel like I know your ex. He sounds like “one of those” – the ones who get away with it.

                This also fits my theory that cheating is not an idiosyncracy within an otherwise “terrific” person but a pervasive problem of character.

                My tiny, physically fragile, nonviolent child was injured by an instructor for the most minor infraction and landed in the hospital. It wasn’t the first time he’d been restrained and thrown into a seclusion cell for no good reason (could there be a good reason?) against clear instructions in the IEP and state law, though, in the second school, the cell was kept secret. I think it was a janitor’s closet. Later I heard from former students that this had gone on for years. Tragically, it’s not uncommon.

                The state would do nothing and staff lied and circled the wagons. I pulled all the kids from the last school and then had to fight off retaliation by the district (also dirt common according to Wrightslaw.org). I took my son to a therapist who said he’d be okay largely because I’d believed what my child recounted and reacted immediately. Children need to see justice too.

                Staff acted like victims when reported to the state. They– the SpEd heroes– suffer so much you see. Never mind that, according to the Harvard Center for Risk Analysis, being “rough” with special needs individuals leads to 3 deaths in schools and institutions every week which are not recorded in any federal database, not criminally prosecuted for the most part, and often recorded by coroners as sonething like “cardiac insufficiency.” Perpetrators are, at most, often transferred to other school or institutional systems. In the rare case that one of these abuse cases makes the news, there are usually floods of comments from school and instutional staff crying about how hard the job is, how they get spit on or bitten, etc. , though the Harvard report and a later government investigation found that victims in the vast majority of restraint and seclusion deaths and injuries had not been threatening their own or others’ safety at the time they were killed or injured.

                Very, very few whisteblower remarks appear after these reports tbat show sympathy for the dead or injured child and these are ganged up on as traitorous in comments sections. It’s so clearly a problem with the system but also obvious that special needs fields are a magnet for the personality disordered. As Sartre wrote, “Everything is petmitted the hero”

                The head of a major university dept. in special needs ed warned me that 3/4 of the cases where special needs individuals are disruptive or violent, it’s a reaction to systematic institutional mistreatment. This PhD/MD sued his own department for restraining disabled children in Rifton-type chairs and won. He advised me to homeschool my child until his health recovered. “I’ve seen too much,” he stated.

                The parents of the child who was treated “roughly” would surely thank you for ditching that ex. Families of mistreated disabled children (we are legion) can only hope the perps face any kind of consequence at all in their lives

                Who’s the hero now? You.

              • I can’t respond to your most recent comment for some reason? I am SO sorry to read what happened to your baby. You must feel so frustrated having no justice for what happened. I can relate to that feeling. It absolutely makes sense that this narcissistic personality would choose a “hero” profession. Thank you for sharing this side of special education, I really wasn’t aware. Now I’m wondering if the report against my ex is something that would be public? I’m guessing reports that are found to be untrue are probably kept confidential.

              • Jo– Those cases are buried like state secrets even if the institution is found responsible. But it’s likely that there are parents from that school who know the story and the name of the child in question. It would be interesting to talk to the parents of the child who was allegedly abused and hear the other side of the story.

                Thanks for the kind words. My son is doing really well, so there’s a little justice. If the teachers who harmed him as a tot saw him now, they’d be scared shitless. You never know, he could grow up to write a book about it. As for actual justice, no one sees any in these cases. I wrote the report for a SpEd attorney who also happens to be the mother of a severely disabled child. The stories she and her husband have told me about what they witness in their professions would make a stone cry.

                It’s simply extraordinary that these things happen in the US in this day and age. Like something out of a Garcia Marquez novel, these atrocities occur all around us and no one talks about it. They happen *because* no one talks about it and it’s a reflection of our society. Our society makes official excuses for all sorts of ill deeds. Abusers can snuggle under that aegis and borrow those rationales for their own purposes. The public who are exposed to constant fabricated rationales have their sense of ethics stretched and stretched to the point of being completely flaccid.

        • Mine, too. We are the inconvenient fact that others turn into the outlier example that proves the rule of our cheaters’ fabulousness. I once had a woman who had just found out who I was married to say to me, “You’re married to (my ex)? You’re so lucky!” It’s maddening, made more so by knowing that telling my story will change no one’s mind, and I’ll be painted as the bitter ex. I’m at the point now where I’m pretty much meh about my ex, and both grateful not to be married to him anymore and looking forward to the next stage of my life, but that unfairness, of having other people think the hologram he projects himself to be while I know the ugly truth, still rankles.

          • That would be awful.

            Thank God my ex, though he had a position of respect and standing before he was exposed, crashed and burned. Honestly, I don’t think he expected those consequences, I think he thought folks would pat him on the back and congratulate him for finding tru wuv and happiness. He forgot they knew me as well as they knew him. And even more they knew schmoopies past too. He was not her first married man rodeo.

            His own best friend told him he was going to regret his actions. he told me that. Whether he ever truly did or not, he didn’t get the warm reception he had imagined.

          • Along this line, I always think about how politician John Edwards, married to that lovely cancer-stricken woman, Elizabeth Edwards, with those lovely children, was–as he ran for a presidential nomination–carrying on an affair with a woman who gave birth to his child. Then he inveigled an aide into pretending to be the baby’s father. He had a whole group of people in his immediate orbit that he gaslighted, manipulated, and abused in various ways.

            Meanwhile, I thought he was great. I bought his “fighting for the little man” persona. I spackled that event where he held up an airport to get a haircut on a plane that sat on the tarmac until he was done. I spackled when I noticed he seemed pretty sparkly or not a fit next to his lovely, smart, interesting but not “model pretty” wife. I would have voted for him. I was “charmed” at a distance.

            So there are two points here. We all can be fooled, every single one of us, if we want to “believe” in someone. But we can learn how dangerous it is to not listen to our instinct and to be afraid to ask questions when things don’t add up in our gut. But most people are satisfied with the illusion. We can’t concern ourselves with people who prefer to be metaphorically asleep.

            • As an aside here: Edward’s Schmoopie, Rielle Hunter was born Lisa Druck. She used to show horses and her father had her horse, Henry the Hawk, killed for the insurance money. This was tied into a ring of other horse murder for insurance money incidents linked to a criminal group later outed in an expose in Sports Illustrated. This same group members are linked to the still unsolved disappearance of heiress Helen Brach.

              I only bring this up because it proves the adage birds of a feather flock together. Some people are bad. They tend to find each other. And sometimes nice people get mixed up with and people ( Elizabeth).

            • When D Day happens we are so disabled with trauma that we are literally unable to function. Understandable. But where we need to improve is prior to marriage or commitment. Instinct is where we fail, we are told by so many that instinct is not real just a feminine delusion. Mind, body connection is real. Pay attention, be realistic, value yourself. Some tips I read somewhere might help. What does this decision mean to you?

              What’s your greatest fear about this decision?

              What are the positives that can come from making this decision?

              How does this make you feel in your body?

              What would the person you most admire do in this situation?

              If you had to decide right this second, what would you do?

              What one condition would make you take action?

              What are your limits on this?

              Would you feel more regret making or not making this decision?

              What does your gut tell you?

              What is this action or inaction costing you?

              • “What one condition would make you take action?
                What are your limits on this?”

                My problem was that I had no limits. Serial cheater could have done literally anything to me and I would have stayed. And serial cheater did exactly that. 8 years of exactly that.

                Then I finally realized I would be MUCH happier alone for the rest of my life than being abused like that. Cheater was killing me. I would have died. I couldn’t take any more.

                It wasn’t easy to leave. I was scared cheater would murder me or my friends, as cheater was threatening. I had to carefully plan it and it was a matter of careful planning, a great support system, privilege, and luck that I was able to leave. My life is MUCH better now and I am not alone.

          • I so agree. Especially when telling the truth about what he has done makes me look like the crazy one! His actions were so depraved that I must have made them up.

        • My cheater did and does con almost everyone into thinking he has a strong moral code, that he is truly compassionate, some one who thinks deeply about morality–that’s the mask. He’s very charming and appears soulful, It was only after D-day and upon his being confronted with proof of his deceptions and betrayal, that the mask slipped at times, showing casual contempt and even vengefulness towards adult women. His true beliefs about women are very utilitarian. For example, he believes that even if he has more than one woman in his life, so long as they don’t know about each other, that no harm is done! And, he admitted that he never felt a pang of guilt about his deception of me, except a few times when he caught sight of pictures of me as a child–which makes me think that he dehumanized me as an adult woman right from the start.
          He is definitely a “sparkly turd”!!

          • Omg… no guilt- same here.
            There was no guilt or sorrow. He was convinced that no harm was done ( since no consequences and no harm was done to him)

          • Mine simply did not think about me at AT ALL during his affair.
            They thought about each other and the soulmate wuv they were having.
            I really couldn’t believe it when he admitted to not even considering me. How is that even possible when he came home to my face every night and we had dinner together?
            Talk about compartmentalizing.

            You can’t have guilt about something that doesn’t even enter your mind.

            • 👍

              My ex was never one to reflect on his actions. Don’t get me wrong, he had his good points, and he had me fooled enough to adore him, but when it hit the fan, self reflection was never in view. Survival and getting what he wanted was utmost.

              My ex went on to cheat on schmoopie, then went to school to become a lay preacher, then got hooked on gambling and lost everything, then went back to church and preaching.

              He and schmoopie are still super involved in church and he is. My guess is they have re written their whole story. I know they aren’t telling the truth. Spin baby spin. Until they figure us out, and we will move on again.

        • Yes, mine secretly attacked other people for years. Then eventually turned on me.

          Now he plays the victim with our children.

  • I suspected something was up and who with, but before I could confront him he told me he was leaving me because I had just been so mean to him…me coping with my six-month old baby and wondering wtf was up with him because he wasn’t helping me, just trying to do the exact opposite of everything I wanted to try to keep the baby happy and healthy. Turns out getting parenting advice from a gold-digger who doesn’t even have custody of her own children, but just wants to get into your accounts while you want to get into her drawers isn’t the best way to ingratiate (sp) youself with a new mother. So she gets shitty with your bullshit, and then you can tell everyone that you are sick of her being crazy and mean and build an exit narrative while she is trying to care for your new child. When the truth came out I was in shock and danced hard but in hindsight it would have been better to cut my losses right away and tell him to just go and be with her. Broken trust is broken trust. He wanted to share all the gory details as though I was his mother confidante, which something I have read a lot of here lately. All I can think is that he was used to me mothering him, but when I became an actual mother and couldn’t cater to his needs 24/7 he had a sadz and looked for someone else to blow smoke up his ass instead, but why he would think I would want to hear a blow by blow account of the blooming of their twu love is anyone’s guess.

    • I froze when I heard all the details. Just like you, he explained everything like I was his mother confidente (sp). Only info he didn’t tell me about was the current co-worker he was doing until he fell asleep and I opened his cell phone ( he didn’t know I knew the password). This was about 4 years ago and still gives me chills the way he told me how I didn’t know anything for 20 yrs, he smirked and reminisced. It literally propelled me to file and fight for myself for the first time in my life!
      Hope you are well and finding peace like me!Hard to believe we can SURVIVE such horrible treatment of our hearts. What gets me thru my days is KNOWING I was a great wife, loyal and loving and that he could never take that away from me! Xoxo sweet

      • SweetChumpgirl,
        So many of us got turned into their mother when the truth came out. What is that???
        I guess they totally left us a while ago in their hearts and then we are – what, a? It’s demented.

        Why the heck do some of them think we are going to care about their emotional well-being with the OW?
        Mine actually talked about good will between us shortly after discarding me one day to the next – like we were really solid friends.

        • That mother thing is real.

          My ex tried to tell me about his “first time” with the whore. Like I wanted to hear that, and slap him on the back and say atta boy.

        • Time goes by and you do feel so much relief that you are no longer that naive person living life with a fake man/ woman. Only recently do I start trusting people again. They are showing me with their words AND actions!

      • Sweet, I agree, it is so creepy and deluded. Glad that you found the strength to get up and out. I am doing okay but just okay at this time, will get there in the end.
        Zip and Susie Lee, I’m not sure whether it’s just total delusion or that they think that we think that they’re so wonderful that we hang onto their every word and will forgive them everything, but yeah, they don’t seem to ‘get’ the emotional carnage that they inflict. It shows how shallow/selfish they are, if they are happy then the rest of the world should just slip into place around that/be happy for them.

        • Stig, your situation to me is about the worst. A man doing that to a woman with a young child or while pregnant. It just doesn’t get any lower.. I pray for the very best for you.

          As hurt as I was and as awful as he treated me during the last year or so, my son was fully emancipated and I had a good job. I just wish he had dumped me, or I had figured it out about two years earlier. There were a couple decisions I would have made differently if I had knows. One, I would have taken a promotion that he didn’t want me to take, two I would have never signed to buy a river property that he wanted. He conned me, knowing full well they were planning on destroying me when the time was right.

          As for that pick me dancing. Whether it was for a few months in my case or a couple years for others, it is a natural response to losing something you value. We are confused, we are hurting, and we want to be chosen. It is also a learning experience. We take all our lessons and use them going forward.

  • Ohhhh yeah. Discovery of lies would always lead to long, tear-soaked conversations. Trauma-bonding over hours, sometimes breaking for food. So much remorse. So many promises. So much time and energy wasted. I regret that a lot. Should have cut my losses much, much earlier. But at least I finally did! Life is good now that I’m no longer living with the constant faint mental background noise of “is this the truth or is it a lie?” I had no idea how much chronic tension I was holding (it felt like it was in the pit of my stomach) until I let it go. I could not have predicted this delicious floating feeling that I now have every day. It was truly a leap of faith.

    • StraightOuttaChumpdom, I am so happy for you, it’s about time to feel good. Thanks for sharing your story, it’s oh so familiar. Wishing you the best, you’ve earned it.

  • Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.

    I wanted her so badly to tell me that what I saw in those messages to the OM were not what I thought they were. She hemmed and hawed about them, going back and forth on just what they were and what they said. She couldn’t deny that she had sent them, and she didn’t, but she seemed to be indicating that maybe there was some chance there was something about them that they weren’t real. Maybe a version of her from another dimension had come into our world I sent them, or the AI on the phone had automatically generated them, who knows? Once it became clear I knew enough that she couldn’t get off scot free, she changed her line to “it was flirting that went too far.”
    Why were you, a married woman, flirting with someone else? I asked.
    No good answer.
    I brought up more messages I’d seen, and still more unclear answers about why she was sending lovey messages to someone else, and why the two of them were so intent on my location and whether I knew where she was.
    She finally admitted she had taken things too far, but it was all in the realm of the Internet. I told her to totally cut off all contact with him. She said she would, but that was too good to be true.

    A couple of days later, tired of all the double talk and trickle truth, I hired a PI. A couple of days after that, she ran away (figuratively). The PI caught her and the OM fooling around in her car in an alleyway next to a restaurant dumpster. I kid you not.

    When she tried to come back, we had a second confrontation. She insisted she was simply clearing her head and that I was a bad husband, so she needed to get away. I didn’t tell her I already knew about the dumpster tryst. I just said I knew she wasn’t where she said she was. I just let her go on and on telling me various versions of the story, letting the lies get bigger and more outrageous. She was at the bar with him, but just to tell him off. IOr maybe they went walking outside afterwards. Or maybe they went to the car, but just to talk. In the back seat? No, she had a code that said she wouldn’t do anything with anyone until our marriage was dissolved (not counting, of course, the previous OM she finally came clean about). Or, maybe the code wasn’t so important that it prevented a little fooling around.
    I never said anything about how much I really knew, or the video the PI took. She found out about a year later when it was included in the divorce packet for the judge.

    • Traveling the World–

      Confronting cheaters is like putting your head in a blender– unless you hired a PI and have full color video and pix of the truth in your possession. Then it’s like sticking *their* heads into a blender. It’s still traumatizing but there’s a little pang of satisfaction in it and a bit like training for the human-lie-detector Olympics. You get to study a lying liar lying out of their lie-hole with a clearer gaze and attention to detail, watching for the various “tells” and filing this under “useful information in real estate negotiations.” You repair your picker a little in the process, making the cheater donate themselves as lab rats for the purpose.

      I befriended my PI. We hung out a bit before lockdown and still keep in touch. We never talk about FW or cheating or anything related.

        • Lol–I borrowed that lie-hole bit from someone on this forum. I thought it was a recognizable CN thing. Now I feel bad for not remembering exactly who gets the credit. 😉

      • Having an actual pic only set my ex narc/sociopath off his twisted game for about a week. I printed an 8×10, put it in a frame and gift wraped it. I set it in the drivers seat in his car when we met in a parking lot so I could give him some items he needed from the house. I was such a chump – he wouldn’t come to the house because it was “to painful for him.” After that he made up an insane narrative of how a picture of her in nothing but a towel with him in a reflection taking it (it was a most likely a hotel bathroom) got on our home computer. He also mocked me for having it – “you must be really proud of yourself for finding that pic of Jen”.

  • Timely post. I recently came into such incredible, damning information that I am seriously considering taking a less-advantageous settlement to get the divorce over with so I can start the revenge process with said information. Stop me! Please!

    • Use that anger to fuel you to get more! Don’t settle until you are happy with what you deserve!!! Don’t forget you control yourself and your own future xoxo Please heat me, get what you deserve!

        • ChumpityChhmpChump…. the best revenge is a life well lived. I wanted 50/50 split on finances— 25 year marriage. Community property state. No brainer, right? Ha! XH tried to screw me financially— cold blooded, shark-eyed, sociopath. When his charm mask fell I was looking in the abyss and the terror and dissonance almost killed me.
          I fought, though, and after a week-long trial the Judge gave me 82% of everything and full custody.

          Fast forward 6 years from Dday: I’m living a wonderful, peaceful life. My kids and I are closer than ever, great career, more money saved than I thought possible, retirement secured, loyal significant other, great mental and physical health.

          XH? He still has high earnings but spends a lot on expensive trips and cars, which depreciate the minute he drives off the lot. Health wrecked. Miserable AF, cheating on AP who wasted most of her 30s with 50-year old X for the “free” rent and trips. Kids say XH still gets drunk daily, smoked pot until he passes out, and rages at AP on the regular…. Ewww….

          So glad I’m free of that horror.

          • Lol.

            Mine costs me about 13 hundred dollars for a year. (back in 1990/91) Technically, I paid my own lawyer, but with the temp separation agreement that he secured, actually my ex more than paid for my lawyer.

            My tight wad ex FWit hired a loser lawyer on the cheap. He actually called me and wanted me to use the same lawyer. when I said no. He said “that’s your problem, you can’t think for yourself” I said, yep and I am hiring my lawyer to think for me. Have a great day (hang up)

            I couldn’t say “go to hell you sadistic bastard” as I was at work.

    • Chumpety– Why not have both– the advantageous settlement AND the take-down? Patience is a virtue and revenge is best served cold and all that. You’ll need the settlement to keep yourself clear of and safe from any retaliation anyway.

    • ChumpetyChumpChump, sadly revenge may end up hurting you more than him. Easy for us to say… because we all want or wanted revenge. However we are left with ourselves, and it’s best to put all of our energy towards#1 and our future. Go for the money because you will never regret that and you have value. And anybody seeing you happy, smiling ( eventually) and getting on with life really tells the whole story.

  • It was exactly a year ago today. First time round I got a fake unicorn. Cocktail of remorse, crying a river, promises and undying love mixed with some ‘poor me’. There was fake reconciliation that lasted a few months then I busted him again. That’s when the rage came because ‘ I couldn’t let things go’ and ‘made him do it again’.

    Now that I’ve filed it’s back to love/charm with snippets of poor me/anger. Such a fun time

  • I found out by accident. I did sense something was up. He was nastier than usual. He needed help with his gmail password. I helped him reset it. He had several emails from my cousin(from facebook messenger). They had emojis with smiley faces that had hearts for eyes. She told him she wanted to be with him. She told him it was raining up her way to bring a tarp. When I asked him about it. He quickly erased them and said nothing was going on. He never went to her place. I made him block her on facebook. He stopped going out all the time. But, he bought a burner phone. The idiot had ot linked to his gmail account. Busted. Even now he tells my sister that he never slept with Skankella. They only played pool together once a month.
    He still can not admit he is a liar and a cheat.

  • Ex was talking to ow, at 2.30 am, on phone, he said he can’t go and meet her, told her to fuck off, he turned to me and said he was speaking to his alarm.
    She was screaming outside my house, steal from her, ex, in same room was laughing.
    Apparently me having a stillborn made him a drug addict.
    According to ex she was going to throw acid in my face.
    Ex said she was strange.
    Ex said she was always happy.
    Stoned and drunk more like.
    He asked me to share him.
    daughter had a verucca, bottle disappeared off shelf, miraculously turned up months later.
    Sti medication apparently turned into cystitis no symptoms days before….

  • I did not confront him. He told me. He met someone else who was much better then me.
    A week later I went back to get some stuff. He was there standing with big smirk tell me he was glad I was gone.
    After that I have not heard from him.
    He does not care.

    Big confrontation is going to be soon. When I have my lawyer evict him from my house.
    Let’s see if he still has smirk then.

      • Anyone that is proud of cheating and takes pleasure inflicting pain is more than likely a psychopath. Those defects will never change, good luck to the next victim.

    • Champignon– Bullies triangulate. The triangle is the sacred symbol of bullies and regressive thugs worldwide. To the bully mentality, there has to be a human sacrifice to form a brittle bond, an “enemy.” or “outsider,” The devaluation isn’t any more real than the “twu wuv” of a bully connection.

      It’s the same thing that happens in third grade and among apes. Once the shine is off the “new bond,” then the cheater nostalgia kicks in. That’s when you’ll need ice in your veins. By stepping out of your assigned role as a point on the triangle, you’ve destabilized their universe.

      • “By stepping out of your assigned role as a point on the triangle, you’ve destabilized their universe.”

        That makes sense. In my case I mentioned before that he kept calling, after the legal separation. I knew he was still with her, and I knew he didn’t really want me back; but he still was trying to “talk” about working it out.

        Using your theory, possibly the thrill with schmoopie was fading, since they no longer had to sneak around, and he needed someone to betray to get it going again. It does make sense, nothing else does. I know it was never about really wanting me back. And by then I certainly had no desire for him.

      • So fare he has not contacted me and I hoping that stays that way. But he is definitely a bully. I also think has not passed the maturity of a3d grader

  • First D-day:

    ME: “I found these responses to personal ads on your computer.”

    Mr. Sparkles: “It wasn’t me.”… then, a week later with a therapist… “It was me, I knew she had put software on my computer so I wrote them to hurt her.”

    ME: “Then why did I find them in the TRASH folder, dated six months BEFORE I installed the spyware?”

    MS: Crickets… and then tears… and then nothing.

    Post Final D-day, after he left me and our son for the OW du jour:

    ME: So your ex-wife called to let me know the two of you were sleeping together off/on throughout our marriage.

    MS: Deadpool eyes (like a shark)… my therapist’s interpretation was that I was finally seeing the real him… no mask, just a shallow, dark empty pool of no emotion… no empathy… a sociopath.

    Then… on the day our divorce was final

    Both attorneys and Mr. Sparkles exited courtroom first… the judge smiled at me as I left the courtroom… I approached my attorney and asked, “Is it over?”… when she said that it was done… I walked out without another word to Mr. Sparkles. I have not spoken to him since (2016) and only use email, text, and Cozi to communicate regarding our son.

    No contact is the path to meh, I have learned.

  • A lot of DARVO, trickle truth, gas lighting. Also expressions of concern for her well-being: She didn’t “need to be asked” directly about the time she was spending with my husband. I’m glad I didn’t. Sometimes I wish I had asked her dying husband – my husband’s best friend.

  • I confronted him within an hour of receiving messages on social media from a woman he’d been asking out for 3 years. I was armed with the screenshots she had sent me of their conversation/messaging from the night before while he and I were snuggling together watching television. He cried, said he was so sorry. He begged me to stay, wrote a heartfelt email. Eight weeks later, we were going on vacation, and he informed me that he wasn’t coming home with me and would be staying in the Keys another week without me. I carefully said “I don’t think I’m ready for that yet”, and he lost his shit. He screamed at me for 2 hours, and said that a real woman would have “gotten over it” in 20 minutes. We went on vacation, and I came home alone. I did the pick-me dance for 3 more years. He went on mystery trips, was caught sexting and having phone sex. I quietly started making plans to leave, and finally moved out. Had I quietly made plans in October of 2016 when she first contacted me, I would have not suffered nearly as much.

    • I hate that you went through that. Honestly, I don’t think it matters if we do the pick me dance three months or three years, it is infuriating. And as time goes by, it is the hardest thing to let go, the amount of time we tried to win those assholes back, like they were some big prize.

      I am so envious of the lovely young women who now have access to CL, and other sites to help them.

      I did go to a six week or so group counseling to help me move on, and it was helpful. But, the day to day support of all this would have been amazing.

  • I can understand how easy it is to confront but for me I had found CL / CN by time I wanted to .

    My EX and howorker posted everywhere that they were having a baby and were engaged to be married . The congratulations were pouring in like confetti in the wind . A few people little shocked as you have not been together long but brilliant news .

    Not one mention he was still married to me and we had in fact not filed for divorce so I ( his wife ) was a little shocked as well .

    I took what I needed from the postings handed it to my lawyer and never opened my mouth about it and asked my friends not to post or say anything either .

    As CL says they will make you out to be bat shit crazy or they will be actual bat shit crazy . Stay away from the crazy

    • My cheater told me his OW was upset that he told me her real name, then laughed and said “bitches be trippin.” A 42-year-old white man with a law degree reduced my feelings about the destruction of our 11-year marriage with two kids to a mysoginist, racist joke.

      But the most outrageous part about the whole thing? I took him back.

  • My Actual Dday was 25 Dec early in the am.

    We were in AZ visiting my son and his wife. I had been suspicious for a couple months, and of course he had been treating me like dirt. But, he was putting on a show of sorts for our son. I woke up at 5am. (hard to sleep late in AZ due to time zone change) He was out on the court yard on his phone.

    I walked up to him and said you are talking to a woman. I could tell from the way he was talking. He hung up and ignored me. Pretty much for the rest of the trip. He didn’t officially tell me until about two weeks later, but I knew.

    What I should have done was get in our car and drive myself to the air port and fly home. I thought of that on our trip home. One of those things I wish I had done.

    Turns out, this was my “last trip” to see family. We had also gone to my dads house and brothers house in TX. On the way home from AZ, he said do you want to go to Bob’s (my other brother in KS) I said “NOOOO, you are treating me like crap; take me home”

    Before we left for the trip, he suggested we do Christmas Caroling (we had done that every year in the car) Thank God my spidey sense was in full bloom by then, and I said no. It was like he was trying to give me my last bit of life, before he disposed of me and in his mind I crawled into a box and died.

    I think in his diseased mind, he envisioned next Christmas slipping schmoopie in the car and her just taking over at Christmas Caroling time and all other traditions, and I would just fade away. He actually told me after we split, he really thought I would move to TX to be near my dad. I was 40 fucking years old with a steady job and a life, and he just thought I would fade away.

  • After d-day I’d asked him to cut off all communication with the ow, and he’d agreed (pointing out what a sacrifice he was making). But for a month after that coincidences kept popping up on his FB page and hers that made me suspect they were talking behind the scenes. I had a mental breakdown trying to cope with this and went away for a week. He drove to pick me up and when we got back I confronted him and asked to see his FB messages. Cue hours of arguing back and forth, “If you don’t trust me this is pointless”, etc etc until TWO IN THE MORNING. Finally he agreed and chumpy me sat exhausted while he went off to log onto his account. I believed that he would let me see it, the truth would be revealed and I’d at last set my tortured mind at rest. By the time I got to the computer, all his conversations with her were erased. He lied and told me he’d done that before he drove to fetch me as the conversations were ‘too heavy’.
    In Feb when out of the blue he asked me to give him another chance (divorced for 2 years at this point) I didn’t bother with a confrontation, just told him I couldn’t talk then with the kids in the house, and I’d email him. I believe my email convinced him that I was utterly done with him. Confrontations with cheaters are pointless when they can so easily twist reality!

    • He asked to get back with you 2 years after divorce ?

      Wow !! I take it he’s not with schmoopie anymore

      I hope you are ok and not too upset by this (( hugs ))

      • My FW tried to reconnect with me while he was still fucking schmoopie. I knew it, he knew it. The first time I did let him come back, and it lasted a week. It would not surprise me if it was a scheme cooked up between the two of them, to soften me up for a better settlement. Luckily after the first time (one week) I figured it out, and said no thanks to the subsequent attempts.

        I think the week he came back was just to get the car so he could use it for his political canvassing and still pretend we were together. All he had was the patrol car, and he couldn’t use that.

        It is rarely about them really wanting the chump back, it is about keeping the chump unstable and in hopium. Just in case they need to use us again. The sooner we get that, the better off we are.

  • I have to stray a little from the recommendation not to confront. I say, don’t confront without solid proof. Like visual, caught-in-the-act proof. Irrefutable proof.
    But, if you confront on the notion that it will be some great turning point or cure to the betrayal, be forewarned. So few actually come clean.
    We all hope in the beginning that they’ll change…or have some magical, rational, acceptable explanation for their behavior. And it’s amazing how many Chumps “choose to believe” lines like “we just missed”, “we just talked”, etc. That term “choose to believe”- it makes my blood boil. You don’t choose to believe; you choose to accept their lie over your facts, or at least your gut. G’AH!!
    Really though, confrontation is about letting them know the gig is up & you won’t be played anymore.
    I think too many people confront too early out of sheer dismay & emotion.
    I sleuthed my ex for months while pretending to be happy & clueless. It was pure hell. But it cut down on the bullshit hell that usually follows Ddays. So there was that.
    For new chumps, my best advice is to get that proof, take it at face value without considering your cheater’s spin. Decide what you want before letting them weigh in at all. And most importantly, get your financial/ legal ducks in a row before they figure out you’re on to them.

      • I have read some on another “reconciliation” type site and it hurts me to read where they believe that the cheater only kissed, or it only happened once, or he showed up but had ED.

        I get it, as if you want to go back to that person, it makes it easier I would assume, but dang. Or my favorite, he showed up at the hotel, but realized what he would be losing and chickened out. Good grief.

          • I know. And it is hard for me to judge them harshly. Because, though my ex was so nasty to me the last year, my hopium only lasted for about six weeks total. His mask really came off.

            For some of these folks, they are still being deceived, and they just can’t see it yet.

            Yes, I do think there are unicorns, but they are few and far between. And even then, does the hurt ever go away if they stay in the marriage. I don’t know.

    • Exactly this. I wish I had kept my mouth shut. Everything was such a whirlwind though I didn’t even think to slow down and investigate. Live and learn.

    • I wish I had known who schmoopie was when his work had their Christmas party. I would have loved to make romantic references about our sex life to my best friend who was also sitting at the table. I knew something was up by then, but honestly i didn’t suspect that little fat toad. it was kind of embarrassing that he didn’t do better.

      I think that night my best friend suspected it though. She threw a couple barbs at schmoopie and her girl friend who was sitting with her. I actually was more suspicious of the girlfriend as she was the cuter one. They were both trash, but she was cuter.

  • My story is so weird I feel like. I had been home all day with my three month old and was scrolling through facebook and saw that he had shared some random young girls post about graduating or something. I assumed this was an accident so I sent him a screen shot and his response wasn’t to laugh it off like I thought he would but instead was something along the lines of “I swear I didn’t do anything I told you I don’t look at girls online anymore..”. There was a time when we were dating and I was upset he was liking girls photos on instagram. Anyways, I immediately got physically chilled by his response and I KNEW something was off.

    I spent that night interogating him and he only admitted to having a problem with needing attention from women. He cried (of course) and apologized for having conversations with other women and begged me to forgive him and he would do anything it took to make things right.

    The next day I snooped some more and eventually discovered he was lying about communicating with the woman that lived across the street from us. I confronted her when walking my dog and she denied anything and RAN inside. This is not something I’d normally do but I just knew there was more. I then told him that she told me everything (she didn’t) and caught him in a ton of lies. A switch flipped after that and he called a divorce attorney the next morning and filed for divorce within days.

    My discovery was all based on intuition or maybe a higher power leading me to it..i’m not sure. Long story short, my confrontation never produced him admitting to cheating so I wish I had let things play out longer while I gathered more evidence.

  • When I asked him who’s toothbrush was in my toothbrush holder ….. He looked at the used toothbrush I picked up from my bathroom vanity and told me it was one of the extra ones I had previously purchased and put in the hall closet. I don’t buy that brand. Then I turned to the right and saw her dirty howorker clothes in my closet set out like trophies for my kids to see…when I say dirty I mean underwear with semen stains….. We were in “reconciliation”.

  • Luckily I did not confront my cheater when I found out, I hired a PI and got all the proof necessary to find him guilty of infidelity. I think I could have won an academy award for my “acting as if nothing happened” during that time, even though he was being extremely hostile and threatening divorce and telling me it was my fault because I “forced him” to eat organic food…
    The best advice really is to not confront them and to get your ducks in a row, and like Chump Lady says, sucker punch them on the way out. It feels very empowering.

    • I so wish I had been as smart as you. Just the action alone of taking control has to feel really good. I mean he did eventually confess when he had no escape route, but if I had hired a PI the minute I suspected something was off, it would have been great. I did question his actions and he played it off as job stress and he would do better. But, unfortunately we don’t get do overs.

  • I put together that my wife was cheating on me within a few days. I spent a few days going down the rabbit hole of who I thought it was. Discovered her with the guy that Friday night and watched her kiss him (traumatic to say the least), I raced back home. She came home later and I didn’t say anything. I planned the next night to let her know that I knew by confronting her in the act. I brought my friend a long to keep me from doing anything stupid since my emotions were wack (The friend wanted me to just gather info) and continued to see them together and I knew she was in his apartment.

    I watched her and the AP go on a date at a restaurant and then knew she’d go back to his place and then there, I’d let her know that I know and shock her out of this spell she was under and she’d come home with me. HAHA. What a fool I was. What happened instead was, I never got the chance to say anything to her because she and her AP had recognized the car and then the AP got her to call the cops and file an EPO.

    When we finally got the chance to speak, she denied that I had seen her kiss him and she then blamed me for “scaring” her. It was my fault, you see? Not her lying and cheating. It was her husband’s fault for scaring her by simply just seeing her lie and cheat in the act.

  • How I wish CL/CN had been around before I wasted 45 years of my life. He died with the lies , gaslighting and narcissistic behavior. CL helped me go grey rock, while getting my ducks in order. Two days before I was going to serve him, he was told he was dying. I survived a year with him on hospice. What I found was it’s like loving and living with a meth addict. You can’t believe anything they say. Their only goal is to get the fix they want. They will steal anything of value to get fix. They will be angry you don’t see their pain and needs. You can’t help them be better, they don’t want to be better. They love their high. You can only control your behavior, not theirs.
    I just regret I lost soo many years, $400,000 retirement money, I earned and my trust.

  • I received an unidentified text from someone at his work stating he was having an affait with a coworker. I confronted him and he said it was someone with a grudge for the coworker. Even pretended to call HR to find out how they found my cell phone number (probably called the co worker). Then the person followed up with a letter giving details she had seen. She never did identify herself and my lawyer later said that 95% of these come from the affair partner. I had Hopium for 3 more months while I demanded transparency and checked accounts to make sure my name was on everything. Finally found a pic of her on his computer. Kept my mouth shut and changed all joint accounts to my name only while he went to his parents memorial service. They died within 2 months of each other while he was having his affair. Instead of spending time with them, he was screwing her. How narcissistic is that? When I realized that, I got my bitch on. Still made some mistakes, but it could have been so much worse. Still the worst period of my life.

  • After a nice meal (yes, he also ruined swordfish) and movie during which I rested my head on his lap because my back hurt, he stood up and said he wanted a separation. His eyes looked dead. Someone else mentioned shark eyes. That’s about right.

    I was in shock and said, “No man wants a separation unless he has a mistress.” He said, “You think you’re so smart I’m not having an affair. I just need time to myself.” This from a man who was notoriously unable to be by himself.

    I curled up in a ball. I screamed. I carried on. I begged him to stay so we could work on our marriage (a marriage I didn’t know was broken). “How can we work on things if you leave?” I pleaded. He said something about being surprised I hadn’t noticed how bad things were. What?

    Clearly he’d been working on his exit narrative for many months, backfilling lame rationales.

    He left for a few days and then returned and tearfully copped to it all. 2 1/2 year affair. “I think I’ll be happier with her. We’ll probably get married”

    We’d been married 35 years. Three kids. This registered as an 8.9 on my personal Richter scale. I’m still sitting in the wreckage, trying to gain a life but struggling.

    To the newly minted chumps, I wish you well. Know that his/her betrayal is not your fault. Read and re-read CL’s book. LAC;GAL saved me.

    • That is so shitty of him. For whatever reason, the ‘resting my head in his lap because my back hurt’ really just….i just….ugh. I am so truly sorry.

      • Yes, so crappy.

        I just don’t get these guys at all. If I hadn’t experienced the coldness myself, it would be hard to believe. But, so common…

        To give an idea of how they don’t really change. My ex Fwit married his whore. After several years of marriage she needed cataract surgery. he wouldn’t let her get it, because it would cost them a 600 dollar co pay, so she had to go around half blind for several more years. She may still not have gotten the surgery, I don’t remember an update.

        Another example not long ago they bought a house in FL and ex Fwit was complaining to my son that they were forcing him to buy pay off insurance. Son said “well yes dad, that is standard; unless you pay a lot down” Son said “that way if something happens to you, at least schmoopie will have a house she can live in or sell”. Dad said, I don’t care about that; I will be dead. So Ladies and Germs; that is how much he cares about schmoopie. Guess the nookie is free now, so not worth impressing her for anymore.

        My guess is many of the schmoopies get the same or even worse treatment when the sparkle fades. We just may never know it.

        I only know because my son told me. His dad has pizzed him off so bad, he needed someone to talk to.

    • Spinach, I am so sorry that you had to go through this and continue to go through the pain. What selfish, shitty, self – centred, disgusting people.
      ‘I’m not having an affair.’ I remember hearing almost exactly that accept it was ‘ I am not having an affair’
      I’ve since learned that when people are being honest they usually answer with a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to a simple yes or no question.
      Me “is there someone else”?
      A non cheater answer would probably be “no””!!!! Cheater answer ( didn’t even use normal conversational speech) “I am not having an affair”
      And of course I believed him. Man I was so innocent.

      • Hey Zip,

        Now that you mention it, he might not have used contractions. “I am not having an affair.” He stared at my forehead when he said this. That should have been the tell.

        His forehead trick was well known to me. He had told me months before that when he’s uncomfortable talking to patients, he looks at them in the forehead and not their eyes. He asked me if I could tell.

        This is another one of those flashbacks where I wonder if this had anything at all to do with patients. He’d been practicing for 40 years and never mentioned having any difficulty looking patients in the eye. I suspect he was practicing for lying TO ME.

        • It seems like so many from what I have read and the women I have talked to actually “confess”

          My ex (on hindsight) confessed a lot. One time, he told me about how his buddy (army) had sex with three different women, when he was on leave. Another time he came home and told me about how this young girl he worked with at a theater, had sex with her boyfriend in the projector room. (this was in the early 70s, we were both young). In case of his exit whore, he told me one night that whore was messing around with a 50 year old man (he was 40). The last one was believable because whore already had the reputation of shagging married men for money. I said something like, sounds like she does that a lot. He squirmed and said, well I told her she needs to quit that.

          I suppose it is possible the previous “confessions” were true, but given that his exit shot was “I never loved you, and I was never faithful” I suspect they were confessions. There were a couple other incidents too, just can’t remember them clearly now.

          He even brought whore to our church. That was weird. I mean that is where sinners need to be in terms of faith, but still weird. After Dday, which was about a week later, I asked our preacher why on earth he would do that. Preachers wife said, maybe he was trying to get her to dump him. Who knows. But he also brought her into our house, and sat her at our table at his work Christmas party.

          Honestly, there is a level of sickness in many of these folks that I don’t think we will ever decode. Could have been as simple as she was getting tired of being the hidden whore, and she wanted the world to know.

          I do remember the night of the Christmas party, he sat there sweating like a hooker on the front pew. Looking back, it was kind of funny.

  • Mine started with her “needing to tell me something, because her friend said she had to…” (glad to know cheater’s friends were good quality) and she explained the “love me but not IN WUV”.

    I was full chump mode in the confrontation and said “well I understand why you’d feel that way. I think I have been in a depression the last few month and haven’t been giving things my all” to which I was hit with “YOU WERE DEPRESS AND DIDN’T TELL ME?! CLEARLY, YOU DON’T LOVE ME”. I couldn’t believe this was the real person I married.

    The turn around of everything on me in that moment, showed her goal in every conversation was to make her actions it my fault. No matter how ridiculous.

    • I was pretty depressed too, the last 1.5 ish years of our marriage. Of course I didn’t realized in real time why I was depressed. Being treated like shit and pushed away will do that to you.

      I was still functioning and wading through the muck, but I was definitely depressed.

      • I’m so sorry you had to deal with both the struggle and that struggle being used to cover their problem.

        It’s crazy that all of their WHYs were so important to you, because you cared. Yet none of your WHYs mattered at all. They just got in the way of their pre-prepared narrative.

        • Yep.

          Luckily for me, as soon as I knew, I was able to get out of it via legal separation with a few weeks.

          But yeah, me covering for him still stings.

  • *raises hand*

    Ooh! Pick me! Pick me!

    After almost two years of no contact I blew up at my fuckwit yesterday morning.

    You see, I found out the day before that he never had our daughter log on to virtual schooling! Not once! Not even for a minute!
    My daughter’s school is 100% online, and we decided that since Fuckwit hasn’t been gainfully employed a day in his life, he’d take care of her schooling while I was at work.
    Imagine my surprise when I asked for her log-in credentials to check on her grades just to find out that she never logged online yet.
    Which is weird, because he kept texting me photos of notebooks with captions like, “School is going great!!” for the last two weeks.

    I know he is a narcissist.
    I know that taking photos is easy, but doing school work is hard.
    But would you believe that I took those photos at face-value?
    Would you believe that I and honestly believed that “school is going great!” meant she was doing great schoolwork? Egg on my face. I was an idiot.

    So I went off on him yesterday. I yelled at him. I swore. And I regret it.
    I do not regret yelling and swearing at him, because I feel like anger is the exact correct response to finding out that fuckwit never took her to school, but like Chump Lady says, it’s easier to shame a warthog than a narcissist, so I regret spending my energy on being mad at him.

    But do you know that the REAL problem was?
    The problem, according to fuckwit, was NOT that our daughter was failing second grade, despite being a gifted student. No. The ACTUAL, REAL SERIOUS PROBLEM was that I yelled at him. 🙁 🙁 🙁
    I was being SO MEAN, you guys, and he “doesn’t have to hear that kind of talk.” 🙁 🙁 🙁
    It’s not his fault that he forgot to tell me, that, uh, there were server issues, and, uh, he couldn’t log online, and uh, it was her teacher’s fault for not calling him to remind him to take our daughter to school. (NOTE: he says this unironically after sending me fake pictures of our daughter doing work).

    Super weird that he was able to log online minutes after I contact my attorney. I’m sure that was a super huge coincidence!
    I wounder if he told my lawyer HOW SUPER MEAN I WAS for pointing out his failure as a parent. 🙁 🙁 🙁 Poor fuckwit. 🙁 🙁 🙁 Life is SO HARD, you guys!

    • Oh for god’s sake! What a blameshifting, lying, pathetic jerk!

      And that you believed him? Yes, I would have as well because we’re good people and just can’t imagine anyone taking photos of notebooks and lying that school is going great when it’s not going at all! Our minds don’t work that way. I’m taken aback every damn time my cheater ex does yet another shitty thing even though I should expect exactly that kind of behavior.

      I think it’s fine that you spouted off as long as it doesn’t upset *you*. I mean, it’s your kid’s education. How could you not? Plus he lied *again*, which is the most triggering act of all.

      By the way, who cares what the poor fuckwit thinks? I want him to tell the lawyer that you were “super mean.” It’ll be good for a laugh.

      Good luck dealing with all that. Life is so fun.

    • Well, if you want to change the custody order, he’s handing the rationale to you on a platter. I got a change in custody after showing the judge the school attendance records that demonstrated my kids were absent or substantially late 40% of the time while in his custody and none of the time while in mine. The judge was not interested in his explanations–best interest of the children prevailed. As with you, I was holding down a full time job and he was unemployed.

      I am sorry you are having to work this out with online schooling. Custody issues are always hard, but the pandemic must be making them nightmarish for so many of you.

  • My cheater is the ultimate gaslighter. He has had an off and on relationship with AP (a former friend of mine) for years. Every time I confronted him, he threatened to leave and actually filed for divorce a few times. (I’ll never trust him… why can I get over it… blah, blah, blah.) If I confronted him about anything, threatening to leave was his strategy. He pulled his final power move when he filed and moved out over a year ago. Instead of pick-me-dancing this time, I’ve moved forward with the divorce. I wish I would have done that after the first D-Day and that I never would have wasted time gathering evidence to confront him. Cheater is still waiting for me to return, but he made his bed, and as the Dixie Chicks say, “his bed caught fire.”

  • I came home from work and noticed he was acting furtively. [ironic given he’s an actor and couldn’t act normal] He said, “I need to go out for a bit” and crumpled a piece of paper and tossed it into the trash. No explanation which was wierd because he can’t stop talking about himself.
    I took the paper from the trash. It was a Western Union receipt. He had sent someone $300 cash. I puzzled over this for a long time because my only experience with WU was emergency cash.
    He came home and said nothing.
    Less than a week later we were at a restaurant and I just said, ‘who did you send $300 to?’ ‘Why did you have to leave for 4 hours last Friday.’ Crickets and suddenly a coffee cup in front of his mouth. Then he smiled and pulled himself together and asked, “how was your day, Darling?” I said, “I’m not answering any questions until you tell me who got the $300. Are you being blackmailed?” “No, I’m not being blackmailed.”
    I was frustrated but didn’t push more. I waited til he was gone to a political event and look at his password file to see if he had a WU account. He did, but it hadn’t been used for this. I waited until his credit card statement came in and there it was — with no indication of the recipient.
    About the only situation I could think of where cash / credit card wasn’t good enough and in person driving was necessary (1) getting a car from a tow yard or (2) paying bail. Didn’t matter — what mattered was hiding it from me. But … it still bugs me a tiny bit that I don’t know for sure.
    I began my daydreaming plans about walking out, but it took something else 6 months later to actually kick my butt enough to do it and get it over with.

    • Ugh. It’s the sneaky behavior that’s so infuriating.

      Do you think he wanted to get caught when he threw that paper away without tearing it to shreds or saving it for a public trash can? I mean, what a dumb move on his part.

      • Good point about wanting to get caught.

        I do think my ex got really bad at the end because he was trying to force me to throw him out, so he could say to his crowd; see she is nuts, I tried to make it work.

        Well she was nuts for putting up with it for so long. But, at least he didn’t get his way.

  • I probably got the same as most people here; lies, blameshifting, denial and manipulation.

    That said, in addition to rage (those texts were private, how dare the children find them on the iPad they use that her phone was synched to?), self-pity (but I am sooooo unhappy and I have a right to be happy) and charm (well, she did make me a cup of tea …. whilst buying herself time to concoct her latest line in BS), I also got “unintentionally and tragically comedic.”

    Well that’s how I interpreted her “I am not having an affair, but since you lack the emotional maturity to adopt an open marriage, then we are now going to have to get divorced.” I mean, who suggests an open marriage unless they clearly have someone in mind? Particularly when it came hard on the heels of denials of her being involved with someone else?

    The kids and I do not miss her.

  • 9 months prior I get an anonymous email telling me ex is having an affair. I run downstairs and say what the hell is this. He looks as shocked as hell and says he simply doesn’t understand because he’d never do something like that, he’s no that kind of person.

    I believed him and actually found something that seemed kinda plausible as to how the email got me (yeah guys be gentle on me, I was naive back then ha ha).

    9 months later he tells me he’s leaving. I get told I was in the worst relationship know to humanity blah blah blah, you know the script. Now I’m suspicious and go digging. I then confront him with what I now know to be true. I got buckets of tears, how could I be so awful. And a stupid quote posted on Pinterest along the lines of “I used to know you but you aren’t same person and that’s sad’. Literally FUCK OFF. And then it got really dark.

    So it kind of went. Lies. Charm. More Lies. Endless Lies. Self-Pity. Rage. And really that is all you get, it just depends in what order.

    • ” (yeah guys be gentle on me, I was naive back then ha ha).”

      No judgement here. My ex Fwit told me that I might get calls telling me he is screwing around, but they were political enemy’s trying to cause trouble. I bought it. I think it was more fear than really buying it, as he was being pretty nasty by then, but in my mind at the time I bought it.

      • Join the club. My adult daughter received a text intended for the AP. It wasn’t explicit, just something about exercising and leaving the garage door open and “eager to see you.”

        My ex said he had no idea what that text was. He said he’d been texting with a male friend and that friend had written that text for his daughter and accidentally sent it to my ex who then accidentally copied and pasted it into a text to my daughter. Got that? OMG. I bought it in part because he really is bad with technology. I thought it was possible that he could have pressed the wrong keys– an innocent, fat-finger incident.

        Ex got the male friend to lie about this, by the way. The friend complied and then said he never wanted to hear from my ex again. My ex felt very sad about this–another poor-me moment. He shifted the focus away from the main event (lying and the affair) to his having lost a friend in such a shameful manner. And, of course, it was all my fault. In his effed up way of thinking, I was the one that made him lie. He *had* to lie because otherwise I would have gotten angry. I shit you not.

        • Yup, and it just gets weirder when you do know what you are dealing with.

          Me: So you’ve taken OW out for endless drinks and expensive dinners (I found the receipts) and you are telling me she’s a work friend and the reason you have never even mentioned her name is because ‘I don’t let you have any friends’. You DON’T have any friends.

          Him: I knew you’d be funny about it, you’ve been funny about my friendships with people before and I knew you’d get angry

          Me: What people, you don’t have any friends?

          Him: No I don’t have any friends.

          Me: I suppose that’s my fault to right. (and I go back to rolling my eyes and reading my book, I’d really had enough of the sad sausage at this point)

          By that point you realised that everything that comes out of their mouths is a lie. All I can say is that we had the correct trusting expectations of our partners and believed in the good in them and that paints us in a good and genuine light but I do look back now and have some face palm moments when I laugh and think how on earth did I fall for that. Hindsight is a wonderful thing right?

        • I got a stern text from my ex-boyfriend asking for the intended recipient to please return his pillow to his bed.

          When I was like, ‘Huh?’ he said that was meant for his daughter. The 20-year-old daughter who moved into her boyfriend’s family’s house months earlier because she couldn’t stand her dad.

          I didn’t believe it for a second, but I also didn’t confront him either.

          But I’m certain the woman who went to his house to steal his pillow while he was at my place for the weekend, and who was apparently holding it for ransom, must be lovely.

  • Why bother confronting a cheater, when the reality is that there will simply be more lies? Trying to get truth from a confirmed liar is like expecting a pile of dog turds to turn magically into a 3 layer cake with rose-buds on the icing.

    I tried. I had invested so much of my life with the dog turd, believing him to be a thing of value, that I didn’t want to just turn my back on that investment and cut my losses. I’m a smart person, right? I would never invest in such a bad deal. Except that I did.

    The final straw was 2 years after DDay finding a message to a third party on his computer asking the third party to pass along a message to Schmoops saying how much he missed her, blah, blah, blah. All the while telling me he was done with her, etc. etc. You all know the play book.

    Done with him.

      • I suspect many cheats either have known the skanks longer than they let on, or it’s limerence. Maybe a combo of both. Either way, we all know they’re awful people for letting it happen or actively pursuing it.

        • Yep, they for sure don’t start out in limerence, or affair fog or whatever it is. They have to get hooked on the high first.

          I am pretty sure my ex was just going after some side nooky, as he had many times before and since she was his employee she started tightening the noose. Oh I think after a while he had affection for her, but as you say mostly fired by the illicit thrill of it. It had to be someones fault, and it certainly wasn’t going to be his.

          Just by his actions with me, I can pretty much tell when the adultery with her started. He followed the usual pattern of super sexed up for about a year, then in the last six months starting to get real nasty and push me away.

          • Yup, I believe they consciously decide to play with fire at our expense. There’s an attraction, and they happily feed it. Then, oh my goodness… it just ‘suddenly’ happened… they didn’t plan for it, they were ‘friends and fell in love.”
            And the fact that they are “in love” makes it ok.
            And people buy this shit.
            Because like chump lady says, nobody wants to identify with the victim of the two selfish fuckwits.
            They get attached because the OW knows she has to pump his ego and do the in wuv dance big-time and the cheater knows he’s blown it with his wife and former life. He’s moved on. He doesn’t want to make a bigger fool of himself and he thinks by staying on the true wuv track it justifies his destructive choices.
            At least I think that’s what it is in my case.

            • The one thing I do know is my ex hated the word adultery. I guess adultery what what other people did. What he did was tru wuv, so it wasn’t like adultery. I used the word a couple times, and he would get pizzed. Once he said “it isn’t about sex” I said it is exactly about sex, it is adultery.

              • Mine also said it wasn’t about the sex.
                He actually was a little condescending when he said that –
                like he wouldn’t just leave our marriage for sex, this was way bigger than that –
                It was deep WUV, slutmate kind

              • Zip. Exactly, there is no deeper love than the love of a good slut. Can you just imagine the furtive deep conversations they had after he sneaked out at night like a hormone crazed teenager, while idiot “mom” was asleep.

              • “I let it blossom,” mine said. (He gets one point for using the active voice, showing some agency. But he loses 10 points for using “blossom,” a word that evokes thoughts of flowers and innocence.)

                He knew he would lose everything, and he did. But once he “let it blossom” it was too late to turn back.

                At this point, the only way to save his reputation, oddly enough, is to marry the OW. He needs to prove that he detonated a bomb for a greater purpose ( twu wuv) that is bigger than the two of them.

                If they don’t marry; he just looks like the cheating ass he is.

                From CL’s book: His “commitment will convince everyone that screwing over your family wasn’t such a disastrous choice.”

                At least that’s the case with my ex. Besides, she’s all he has now, so he’ll want to “lock her in.” Why he would think that a woman who cheated on her spouse will stay faithful is beyond me. Ditto for her. But, hey, they are unicorns 🦄!

        • Susie,
          “there is no deeper love than the love of a good slut.” 😂
          OK, Clady has to compile all the best lines from us chumps and write her Sequel.

        • Spinach,
          Everything you said.
          “it was too late to turn back.” I got “it was already done” – I love that their commitment to the slut is more important than their commitment to the woman they married -that was already done.
          I’m thinking it’s too much work to have to move on with their wife after that… Who wants to hear about it when they can just hear about how wonderful they are from the woman who likes to fuck other people’s husbands.
          His “commitment will convince everyone that screwing over your family wasn’t such a disastrous choice.” EXACTLY. Let’s not get off the train at any undesirable spot, let’s make sure it crashes into a wall.
          “ Besides, she’s all he has now, so he’ll want to “lock her in.” Why he would think that a woman who cheated on her spouse will stay faithful is beyond me. Ditto for her. But, hey, they are unicorns.” Check, check and check.
          They never think about the source of all this wonderfulness. Which would be fine, except that they take so many people down with them.

        • Spinach your story is so similar to mine.

          “At this point, the only way to save his reputation, oddly enough, is to marry the OW. He needs to prove that he detonated a bomb for a greater purpose ( twu wuv) that is bigger than the two of them.” Exactly. In my fwits case he had the added squeeze of she was his direct report, and if he didn’t marry her; she could sue the PD. ”

          It really is a moving love story, they should write a book.

  • I SO wish I had a do over….I wish I would have found CL nation before I confronted my STBX.

    My D-day came in the middle of the night, when he texted his fuck buddy his love ❤️ from our bed, as he lay next to his wife who he thought was sleeping (entitled prick!). I lay awake for four hours in shock trying to comprehend what I had just seen and what I should do. Stupid chumpy me decided that honesty was the best policy 🙄 and decided to ask him about it first thing in the next morning. At 7am over coffe I confronted him with what I had seen. At first he denied and denied but I had him dead to rights and then he simply looked at me and said “it’s over”. He left 10 minutes later. Cue the begging and sobbing and pain and untangling…”why are you doing this”…followed by dancing my ass off for a few months. Eventually my head got mighty and filed one month after d-day, both my my head and heart were a hot mess; head still struggles and heart is just starting to catch up.

    If I had a do-over, I would have sat on the information, made my decision, filed for divorce, changed the fucking locks and gone no contact. I would have blindsided HIS ass. Although I still fantasize about jumping out of bed, smashing his phone and kicking him out in the middle of the night. *sigh*

      • Same. Same same same I wish I had a do over so much. I’ve said before that the worst thing I’m having to muddle through is forgiving Myself for the person I turned into during and after discovery. Once the divorce is final and everything is settled I’m thinking that’ll be easier to do. I hope so.

        • ThursdaysChild,

          Forgive yourself! I think most of us can identify with being a bit out of our minds post discovery and doing and saying things we regret.

          Once the divorce is final, I think you should feel better.

          Good luck. My best to you!

          • 🙂 What a kind thing to say, thanks. I’m…well I can’t say I’m working on it just yet because I have a plateful of crap to deal with. But I do agree that once it’s final and my kids and I are settled into a new place that I’ll tackle that next. I’m just so mortified with the way I danced and took blame and just…ugh! Simpered and giggled and tamped down anything bad or scary because can’t scare the poor poppet away can we? That’s what the RIC sites were saying anyway. I’m usually a strong person. It’s humiliating to remember the way I responded to it all.

          • Agree! I dont blame myself for my chumpiness – my entire world blew up in that one moment. I just wish I had a time machine made out of a DeLorean.

        • Yep, forgive yourself.

          But I get it. Anger at myself for shoulda, woulda, couldives; was the last piece of my pain. I am just so happy that so many women/men get the guidance they need now.

    • “as he lay next to his wife who he thought was sleeping (entitled prick!).”

      I hate him for you.

      My entitled ass would say “I am going to ride around with one of the guys, I can’t sleep, or I miss being on the road) (police officer). I bought it, “be careful sweetie” Gahhhh.

      He was going out in the middle of the night for his fuck fest. The only thing that kept me from killing him after I figured it out, was thinking of what a low down slimy whore he must have found to be available under those circumstances. It was “surprise surprise” his co worker, in fact she was his direct report. God he was stupid. 20 years of screwing around (by his own admission” and the town whore hooked him into marriage via being his underling. (no pun intended)

      Honestly there is no doubt in my mind if she had not been his direct report, he would still be screwing around behind my back. For that reason alone I am grateful to her. For one it happened while I still had some youth, two I unloaded a lying cheater and he got saddled with her.

      • Mine used to go for a ‘drive’ in the night claiming he wanted to de-stress or couldn’t sleep. Was seeing one of his many whores.

        I also can’t believe I fell for it and wanted to give him space

        • Do you think you will be as trusting the next time around? I’m a little worried that this has permenantly changed me and I won’t be willing to take someone at their word. But maybe thta is not a bad thing.

          • It changes you in good and bad ways. You do become more vigilant and less will to take crap and putting up with people coming on too strong. You do suspect a lot more people of having alterior motives. As long as it doesn’t get out of control or too obvious, as far as I’m concerned it is much better than being naive.

      • Awwwee Susie, Thanks 😊 I hate your asswipe too.

        Yes, I did plenty of “ok, see you later sweetie”…he’s running errands, he’s golfing for a really long time, he staying an extra night out of town for work.

    • My biggest regret was agreeing to tell our daughter that we both agreed to split because ‘mummy and daddy haven’t been getting on. I didn’t really know about the affair then thinking about it or certainly not confirmed. I really wish I had said, you bloody tell her that YOU are leaving and while you are there you had better tell her who OW is or I will.

      I wake up sweating remembering the time we told my daughter we were splitting it was so horrific a moment in my life and I could have made that pleasure all his.

      He got away with telling her they only met up after we split and were ‘work friends’. She totally buys it but let’s see if she buys it still in a few years…… Then she will know he will have lied to her mum and to her as the OW did too. Ugh I hate them both.

      • DuddersGetsChumped,
        I get it. As a mom I always wanted to protect my kids. I would have seen not telling them if their dad was a lying, cheating, betraying, scum bag as protecting them.
        And yea, we can tell the truth without editorializing, but then the kids do their own editorializing anyway.
        If it’s true that girls often marry people like their dad, it makes sense to me to want a daughter to think their father is a man of integrity.
        For better or worse, I would’ve tried to take that one for the team.
        I’m just saying it sucks big-time, and I’m not sure what’s best for the kids, but I get the motivation to not have them know the truth.
        And frankly, I wish I had never known that my father cheated on my mom.
        I always felt that she shouldn’t have told me.
        But it is infuriating when they get off scot-free

        • Zip, just no real right or wrong on this one is there. Swallow some more buckets of shit vs protect yr kids and then wonder if lying to them at all (even ostensibly to protect them) is the best thing. Although I suppose I didn’t lie because at the time I didn’t know.

          I suppose you just let them work it out themselves. If she ever asked me directly when she’s older then I would say.

          What a flaming mess it all causes, honestly. Could just do without it (as I am sure could she bless her)

  • I was 10 weeks pregnant and just starting to get a real dose of those hormones. He sent me a text message that he was leaving me while at I was at work. I went home (early). I then put his crap in garbage bags and drove to his workplace. He was standing outside, must’ve been watching for my car. I ended up throwing the garbage bags at him and directing all the fury at him. I took the keys to the new car I had just bought him and left him with the crappy car I had been driving and threw them at him. The howorker he had been cheating with was there as well, so she got a good dose of it too.

    It was when he tried the pity channel, begging to still be a part of the baby’s life that I snapped out of the rage for a moment. I started to cry, then I laughed at him. He walked out on BOTH of us. I flipped the howorker off, told him to rot in the gutter where he belongs. Went home and changed the locks.

    I was badass. I’m still proud of how I handled myself when I wasn’t being cautious or in my right mind. Once I collected myself I prepared for the smear campaign which started an hour later. I came through it with the truth.

    • Good job.

      Regardless of his smear campaign, there is little any man can do to make himself look good after abandoning a pregnant wife. Not just because she is pregnant, but because he has obviously been conning her for at least up to the time she got pregnant.

  • We believe too much in the power of words.
    We believe that logic and reason will make a cheater change.
    We believe that our loving words will persuade a cheater, by definition someone running a con on us.
    We believe their words, although we know they are liars.
    We believe their promises, although the married ones have already broken the most public promise they will ever make.
    We believe their excuses.
    We believe their words when they blame shift–it’s our fault. It’s the kids. It’s the job. It’s their mommy. It’s the Budweiser. It’s being cut from the football team in 10th grade. It’s we got married too young.

    They turn our words and their words and the words of the marriage ceremony against us.

    Instead, we need to believe in what we see: the cheater’s actions—sneaking, lying, gaslighting, raging, blaming, betraying. And we follow those actions with our own, designed to protect ourselves.

  • The post above comes from what I learned from “confrontation.”

    Before D-Day, I could see his actions: avoiding me, refusing physical contact, smirking, ignoring my birthday, condescending conversation. But I thought he could see the mistake he was making if I could just find the right words. And I tried.
    I called Jackass and got a boat load of denial and blame-shifting. He never had an explanation for what he was doing. He just denied it, condescending all the way.
    I wrote him a long letter, which he ignored.
    I finally knocked on his mommy’s door and after a couple of hours of ignoring me (because he has a report to write), he finally said it was my fault for being too much in a hurry (although he was the love bomber).
    60 days later, I sent an email asking why he wouldn’t respond to a mutual young friend who had asked him for advice. And I suggested that we meet for lunch to get some closure (I know–ugh and double ugh.) His answer–a rage-filled message delivered on Valentine’s Day (he’s one of those) blaming me for it all.

    You can’t move psychopaths with words. You can only get away from them as quickly as you can, as safely as you can.

  • I suspected XH was cheating on me when he got his new job and I was home with our infant eight years ago. I looked at the phone bill and discovered that he had callled a howorker at midnight, while I was sleeping. Confronted him, he denied it and the phone bill showed he attempted to call her multiple times after I confronted him. Got called crazy, he threatened divorce, and he was worried that “I might sleep with someone else to spite him and that would be a mistake”. Never set right with me, I knew he cheated and would never admit it but I remained married to him for the next seven years. What followed was a whole lot of boundaries being trampled and I resigned myself to just letting him do whatever. Got blamed for fighting, money issues, lack of sex, no intimacy, parenting issues you name it, it was my fault. I went to counseling. I went to the gym. I tried to be nicer but it was just met with whatever mood he was in which was usually drunk when he was rarely home. He was super important and had a job you know (so did I, I made more money, but whateves).
    Christmas day, right after opening presents I recieved a facebook text from his new schmoopies boyfriend whom had stumbled upon XH and schmoopies texts outlining their sexy times. XH admitted to “being drunk” at HER house and it was the biggest mistake of his life (later turned to an eye opening experience that changed his life and showed him how lacking his wife it. Turns out new schmoops dumped him because she learned he had slept with the first howorker.
    I didn’t cry, I just left and figured it out as I went. I am now actually in MEH but I am still working on myself to recover from ten straight years of abuse. CN definitely helps with this.

    • I hope you heal fast and have an amazing life going forward. We all deserve it. I have been lucky (so far). As we all know we can never know for sure. But, I feel as confident as I can.

      I think if I had suspected sooner, I may have pick me danced longer. But, who knows; maybe I would have thrown him out sooner.

      Hard to say.

  • Oh- this is a good one!

    When my girlfriends took me out one night to tell me about the affair-I waited until the next morning to confront my ex because I wanted to calmly and coldly confront my ex about the affair.

    When I told him I knew-he immediately denied it. Then he went around the house the whole day acting like NOTHING had happened. He probably thought that the whole thing would blow over in a few days-like it always had in the past. “You do not see the person behind the curtain.” Yeah, asshole-your a shitty magician…..

    • It’s interesting how people like this can immediately change the channel and act like everything is just fine. When my ex wouldn’t move out after HE filed for divorce, it was like I was in some kind of twisted reality where I was in so much pain and he just went about his life as usual. He would cook himself elaborate dinners, then leave for the night to go out to bars, hire escorts, online dates. He was able to completely disassociate himself from the reality of what had happened. The more time passes, the more I almost find it fascinating to watch.. but I also find it scary because we have a baby togheter.

      • Does your separation agreement state who stays in the house?

        That would be awful, and the child certainly complicates it all.

        • We owned the home together so I was legally not able to kick him out or change the locks. I eventually received exclusive use of the house at our mediation pending the sale of the house but there were three months before mediation where he refused to leave. It was hell but I also had an infant that I didn’t want to give up overnight to a psycho, so I let it play out.

          • Oh ok. Once our legal separation was stamped, he had to leave the house. Well he had already left; but legally he would have had to leave the day the Legal separation was stamped.

            I had actually though, changed the locks a couple weeks before, as I didn’t want him coming in and out of my house while I was at work. He squawked and I said “call a cop” He is a cop. He knew he didn’t want me throwing his mess open with a police report on the blotter. Technically he was right, I had no right to do it, but he knew how it would go down. It was the height of the political season. He was still trying to keep schmoopie out of sight. A lot of folks knew, even the mayor; but the mayor was still trying to do damage control, and keep it quiet.

      • The amazing level of denial these people have adopted is truly beyond belief.

        To this day-my ex still claims 0% responsibility for our divorce.

        God Bless these idiots…..

      • I’ll never forget one night at 2am when my ex woke me up to tell me that he wasn’t going to refinance the house in order to buy me out-and he wasn’t going to give me a divorce! WHILE we were on our last vacation with our kids in a hotel room-with our boys sleeping in the next room-and our daughter was sleeping on the floor of our room on an air mattress!!!

        The amazing level of denial these people have adopted is truly beyond belief.

        To this day-my ex still claims 0% responsibility for our divorce.

        God Bless these idiots…..

        • They or at least my and likely most fuckwits still believe they will manintain control. Not only of the divorce, but of us after the fact.

          I do think my ex struggled mightily when he realized “shit, I can’t control her anymore”.

          • Susie Lee-I totally agree with you!

            My ex would literally be spun when he couldn’t get me to do what he wanted-no matter how large or small the issue was.

            His go-to phrase was always; “We need to be on the same page.”

            It took about a year and a half before he finally gave up on that one.

            And its not just me he tries to control-it’s his neighbors as well! He still lives in our old house and when his next door neighbor asked if he would help pay for 1/2 the cost of a fence and retaining wall-he refused. They are going ahead with it-and he is constantly trying to make them build it they way HE wants it billed! He’ll text them to “come outside and talk to me.”

            They finally got a Cease and Desist served on him-and now he can’t talk to them at all about anything.

            As always-he’s been telling anyone he can corner that I have poisoned them against him 🤣🤣.

            If I had that much power-I wouldn’t have stayed so long in the marriage!

            • “His go-to phrase was always; “We need to be on the same page.””

              I absolutely love that. It is how they think. OK this is what I want so lets make it happen.

              My ex didn’t say exactly that, but it was implied in several post legal seperation calls. One he threatened to sell everything, if I didn’t do a certain thing. I just said “knock yourself out big boy” and hung up on him. (like he had control of the legal system) He called back a little later to apologize. I didn’t know it then but he was cycling through the three emotions of rage/charm/pity I believe it is. Where was CL when I needed her.

              • Susie Lee-I remember I got the “stern talking to” when my ex stood in MY kitchen (he bought me out of our house and I bought a house closer to my kids’ school) and TOLD me that we had to come to a legal agreement while we were mediating (with his good friend’s wife as the mediator).

                I said, “No we don’t-you can go now.” 🤣🤣🤣

  • I confronted by getting out the Bible her father gave her that she seemed to cherish.

    She swore with her hand on that Bible that she was not cheating. Then off she went for “coffee with a friend.”

    Ex-wife was on her back and screwing the jerk within the hour.

    At the time I could not imagine she was such a lying cheater, and especially that she could swear on her dad’s Bible and act annoyed with me for subjecting her to that.

    When the disgusting details finally came out years later she admitted that that moment meant nothing to her.

    • Wow! That’s incredible. I’m not even religious but think even I would flinch if someone asked me to swear on a bible.

      It’s as if these cheaters have no conscience.

      I never expected or suspected that my ex, who was raised in a very religious family, was a pathological liar until he confessed. Prior to that he actually acted morally superior to everyone! Remarkable!

      By the way, here’s his justification for lying: I had to lie to protect the OW and because you wouldn’t have forgiven me. And it was a lie every day for 2 1/2 years but only about one thing.

      • Same same. Swore on the Quran. DDay 3 after 6 months, when I saw him texting her. Said it was ONE lie. I was stumped. Walked out.

      • “Prior to that he actually acted morally superior to everyone! Remarkable!”

        My Fwit actually became a lay preacher, preaching fire and brimstone. My daughter in law said even his whore wife was embarrassed by some of his preaching.

        I admit to having a curiosity about just what story they told their new churches about how they got together. My guess is it isn’t the real story. They have cycled through several churches, so who knows. Church folks tend to pick up on stuff like that pretty quickly.

        I remember once my daughter in law told me their neighbor couldn’t stand Fwit and schmoopie, and they told her his son is nothing like his mom and dad. She said that is NOT his mom, and he takes after his actual mom, not his dad.

    • StrongerNow, It is so weird isn’t it? It is absolutely that they think that even though they are shit canning us, they will still be in control of us.

  • I had no choice but to confront. The way I discovered the cheating was by finding an unfamiliar car in my driveway and then an unfamiliar woman in bed with my (now) ex! Given that I found them IN the bed, there was no way to spin it, but they certainly tried. One of most absurd and memorable moments from that day was OW saying to me — as she’s putting on her clothes — “Nothing happened!”

    Ex then lied about every possible detail: length of time, how they met, where they went, who knew until I would uncover evidence myself and then he would cop to only what I could prove. So yes, don’t waste your breath. Just line up those ducks and go!

    • Red handed. Geez. I sometimes wonder how it would have played out if I’d walked in on them. I know they had sex in our bed, and I could have easily come home a day earlier than expected and caught them.

      You handled it well!

      • I am betting my ex had her in our bed too. One because I was at work all day, and I also took a couple trips to visit my family in the last year. He liked to get away with sex on the sly. He was always like that, so it would not surprise me.

        He certainly had no issue with parading her around in our living room while I was there, so sneaking her in would have been child’s play. I gag to think of them doing it in our car, but likely they did.

        And really, think about the caliber of woman who would do that with another woman’s husband in the woman’s house.

        I mean when we were married, our trysts were on the beach at night, or in the car, places like that. And we were married.

        • “And really, think about the caliber of woman who would do that with another woman’s husband in the woman’s house.”

          When I have a bad day and imagine a blissful love affair between my ex and the OW, I have to remind myself that they both don’t seem to know right from wrong or have natural boundaries. “No, I will not sleep in your marital bed,” never crossed their lips apparently. Guess their lips were too busy.

          Both are low-character cheaters.

      • Spinach@35
        Oh, god, no! I did NOT handle it well. I was in such shock that I just stood there like an idiot. I felt embarrassed, like I was the one had done something rude or wrong! All these years later, I wish I had had the wherewithal to slap one of them, or gather their clothes and throw them out onto the lawn.

        Instead spent the next four hours “confronting,” taking breaks to go throw up in the bathroom. Then I spent nearly three years in a one-sided attempt at reconciliation! So dumb… THEN I left a cheater and gained a life. <3

        • Oh, I’m so sorry. Emotions run truly wild in these moments. There’s no controlling them. It’s easy to look back and think/wish we’d behaved differently. But it’s so complicated.

          You write: “I felt embarrassed, like I was the one had done something rude or wrong!” I can relate. Over the years, these narcissists flip the script so much so that we unwittingly blame ourselves for *their* shitty behavior. “I must have done something wrong!!” Ugh. His voice. My mantra. It’s still etched in my brain.

          So to get rid of that self-blame habit, my therapist has advised me to pause and think every time I start to apologize for something…anything…with anyone. I’m beginning to see the benefits.

          I’m glad you’ve extricated yourself from that cheater and have gained a life!! Kudos to you! All the best,
          Spinach

  • Until reading all of these replies I hadn’t really thought of this. Mine didn’t feel like a confrontation but in hindsight I guess it was. Fredo travels all over the country/world for work, US headquarters being on a different coast and the main headquarters in another country. He is the nice guy, a stand up guy, the ‘you’re so lucky!’ guy, the guy who would never EVER hurt me or the family because he literally has no one else guy, the ‘he loves you sooo much’ guy. So when I was sick for 2 years and had to focus my attention on myself for a few months, I didn’t notice the slow change.

    Yada yada finally after I was well again, I began to notice his acting…just different. Weird things but nothing alarming just different. And he’s so nice and so attached to his family he would NEVER screw around so I didn’t think THAT, but we just weren’t connecting anymore. I thought it was because I had been sick for so long we just needed to reconnect. When he returned from a trip to other country main headquarters and didn’t come to bed (never happened before) I went downstairs the next morning found him on the couch and asked him what was going on? Things feel weird between us let’s talk about this I don’t want it to get any worse or start to be a real problem. BAM! I got the ‘you’re my best friend, I love you but not in love with you, I’m having an affair (6 months!) and I fell in love’ shit. Whore work(ed) with him in other country headquarters. Total blindside. And that was my confrontation, but I didn’t realize this until reading this post today. What I wouldn’t give for a do-over.

    • Ah yes, I fully trusted my cheater too and blamed the disconnect on being pregnant. These jerks really know how to kick people when they are the most vulnerable. I hope you are doing better.

      • I blamed the disconnect on his age and his imminent retirement. Googled lack of libido in 60 year olds.

        I did tell him that I want more intimacy. His reply? “I know you do.” Then he walked away.

        I really can’t understand my former self. How did I let that fly?

        At dinner another night, I asked, “Are we going to be ok?” He just shrugged. Again, why didn’t I ask a follow-up question? I want to shake my former self.

        • Spinach,
          Everything you said.
          “it was too late to turn back.” I got “it was already done” – I love that their commitment to the slut is more important than their commitment to the woman they married -that was already done.
          I’m thinking it’s too much work to have to move on with their wife after that… Who wants to hear about it when they can just hear about how wonderful they are from the woman who likes to fuck other people’s husbands.
          His “commitment will convince everyone that screwing over your family wasn’t such a disastrous choice.” EXACTLY. Let’s not get off the train at any undesirable spot, let’s make sure it crashes into a wall.
          “ Besides, she’s all he has now, so he’ll want to “lock her in.” Why he would think that a woman who cheated on her spouse will stay faithful is beyond me. Ditto for her. But, hey, they are unicorns.” Check, check and check.
          They think that because they’ve convinced themselves that their spouses weren’t their true love, but since this is the slutmate kind of love, and so much was sacrificed for it, it will be everlasting.
          They never think about the source of all this wonderfulness. Which would be fine, except that they take so many people down with them.
          And I totally get letting things go when he had less than loving behaviour (a shrug). I think something in us knows unconsciously that there’s something very wrong and we don’t want to push it – we think it’s going to go away. Or we just don’t think about it because life is very busy and there’s usually a lot going on, and we figure they’re not in a good place so why make it worse by harping on it?
          I know every sign of an affair was there and it just did not enter my brain. I would see a sign and think ‘oh his phones not lying around anymore,’ but that was that. Or ‘oh he’s exercising a lot all of a sudden’ I never went further than that in my thinking. ‘It’s so strange how many business dinners he has all of a sudden’ and I’d carry on with the status quo. Who wants to think their spouse is a cheater? That feels like crazy talk if you’re not a cheater.
          It’s not our fault.

          • You last paragraph is so true. I mean I saw the signs, and to be fair I questioned him about it. I said you have been avoiding me, and don’t talk to me like you used to, I even suggested we start taking some time to talk, or go somewhere. He said it was just the pressure of his new promotion, and as soon as things settle down, he would make it up to me. Well if making it up to me meant drop kicking me, then yeah I guess he did.

        • Mine was 40, right in the mid life crisis shit range.

          I have no doubt it just started as another piece of strange, and given his age, and the fact that she was his employee, by the time he woke up he knew he was in deep shit.

          I do resent that he kept trying to destabilize me though. Or maybe not resent so much, as wish I had known more about what was going on then. I really thought my situation was unique. It was why I was so ashamed and kept quiet for so long about how he treated me.

          It is why I am here, I had a relapse of sorts after he abused my sons family, and started doing some digging, and up popped CL and the Betrayed wives site. So much good info on both sites. Different angle, but not much conflicted info on what cheaters do and say.

          I am both happy for and envious of folks who now have this info.

          So many, I should have said’s. Also, lots of laughs.

          Having said that, I know how fortunate I was (I thank God for that) to get out of the situation as quick as I did. Honestly, I could never have respected him after the way he acted, even though I though for a couple months I could have. He would have likely cleaned out my retirement account by his gambling. I wonder how much of that he did behind my back when we were together.

      • @Jo–I am better, thank you. And their timing is superb, yes. As soon as I was coming out of my weird illness our youngest was graduating high school and going off to college. Just ripe for that ‘mid life crisis’ bullshit. I really have no feeling left for him at all EXCEPT I do still want the ol’ karma bus to make him a quick visit. Maybe run him over once or twice. Is that too much to ask? 😉

        Although at this point I’d be willing to forgo my turn in order to loan the karma bus out to others I read about here. While you were PREGNANT?? Oh my shit some of these jokers are vile!

        • “I do still want the ol’ karma bus to make him a quick visit.”

          Same. I know CL says that karma is being who they are etc… but I’m not so evolved in my thinking.

          • Oh I’m right there with ya. I tell my friends and family on the rare occasion when it comes up that I don’t want him dead, but I do want him miserable. Stewing in regret. Circumstances being what they are I’ll never know, but I’m not at the point yet where I don’t wish for it.

    • Thursday – Yup.
      Our relationship “changed” for him when I went thru a bought of depression and panic attacks (never had before and totally recovered). Part of me is glad to have learned now that we was never going to support me in difficult times (we honestly had it quite easy).

      Kicker is that his fuckbuddy is diagnosed with a debilitating disease but does not currently have symptoms. Cruel cruel karma bus coming. IDK perhaps she is the personwho will help him learn the true menaing of love…but I doubt it.

      • Yep. I don’t wish ill health on anyone, but that is kind of the whole sickness and health marriage vow thing.

        I doubt she will teach him anything, but I do wish for your health to remain good, and for hers too. I doubt she will fare well with him. With rare exceptions folks just don’t change who they are, and how they treat others. Not long term anyway.

      • @WiserChump – I sometimes think my body anticipated his whole unspoken undercurrent of repressed rage before my conscious mind did and that’s why I got so sick for so long. Although I did get better right around the time he started cheating I think he’d been in a devalue mindset for awhile before then. Now I struggle with mild to moderate depression and I had a few panic attacks as well but at least now I know the ‘why’ of it and believe once the dust has settled that will clear away too. I’m glad to read you are doing better.

    • Thursday,
      So many similarities. Great guy, extremely close to his family but no friends, thought he would never ever hurt me – came back from a business trip and my whole world was different.
      After trying to understand the distance, I found out that he was googling ‘how to leave your wife.’
      My body went into shock. He adamantly denied there was anybody else, he just suddenly wasn’t happy.
      I did some sleuthing and found out about the affair and then he adamantly swore it was over. He still wanted me to believe he was leaving because he just wasn’t happy he was sticking to that story come hell or High water.
      If I hadn’t found out, I would think to this day that he left because he was a sad sausage, mixed up and broken, rather than a cheater on fantasy island with much younger coworkerOW.

      • Zip,

        I’m angry for you. That’s lying, gaslighting, and cowardice rolled into one.

        In the end, the least they owe us is the damn, painful truth.

        We shouldn’t have to go sleuthing but glad you did.

  • “I shall confront you with my FEELINGS about your treachery, and you will SEE THE LIGHT. The heavens will part, Jesus will descend a staircase of clouds, and you shall have INSIGHT!”

    I have to say, this is so on the mark. I remember thinking, on several occasions early on, that somehow something I said was going to touch his heart, or mind or something and he was going to instantly revert back to his previous shitty self, in lieu of his current even shitter self. Because apparently I could deal with just the shitty version ok.

  • Him: “It’s just sex. What are you so afraid of?“
    Me: “That you’ll fall in love with her.” For starters.
    Him: “How could you think that of me??” and oh, the waterworks that followed.

    It’s not worth it. I wish I’d left 10 years earlier.

    • Her: It wasn’t about the sex. I just wanted some one to talk to
      Me: You met this married man of 4 kids( our youngest children headmaster), after chats on the school gates and a few texts and had sex in his car over a 4 month period. If it wasn’t about the sex and just about talking, why didn’t you have just have coffee like normal people?

      Later found out she had taken a camping mattress and fairy lights to decorate it. Not about the sex! Bullshit!

      Its taken me a while but I now know its all lies and bullshit, anything to avoid them having to think they have done a horrible thing

    • If it just sex, then I’m sure he would be ok if you went out and banged a gorgeous 25 year old! “It’s just sex, what are you afraid of?”

      • Yep, they never (well rarely) think of it that way.

        I get that there is the open marriage concept, but most of those end in misery and despair too, at least according to stats.

  • I had a hard time understanding the “charm” segment. I definitely received the rage and heavy self pity but didn’t see charm. Not even a few faux nice bones thrown in. I experienced persuasion. Rage, self pity, and persuasion. Let me persuade you as to why I fucked you over and all the reasons you deserve everything that I did to you and everything that is coming. I guess it could be the same as mindfucked. Rage, self pity, and mindfucked was my reality the final four years.

    • I didn’t get the rage. All charm prior to my finding out (plus rejection & lying), then it was ALL self pity, all impression management. Remorseful words, non-remorseful actions.

      • I got rage and attempted charm, but not much self pity.

        I honestly don’t think my ex ever did much self reflecting, not even enough to feel sorry for himself. But lots of rage, and some attempted charm.

        I think he just came to a point that he saw me as the reason he couldn’t be with schmoopie and get his fill of affair sex, and that enraged him. Kind of like a male dog being kept on a chain, so that he couldn’t reach the bitch. I doubt it ever entered his mind that the thrill would end. And if it did he would just repeat history, which he did. He was just a hormone crazed teen again.

        He started the attempted charm when he called me about “working it out” in the latter part of our legal separation.

  • This is great info when the divorce is amicable. When it is abusive then the focus needs to be safety. The fear of financially being unable to leave is real so investigating the above info is helpful but most of the time people are so mired by the lies etc. that getting out is a priority over research. There is no question that divorce is both emotionally and financially devastating leaving inevitable scars. However, leaving gives the space to heal and get the needed therapy for the affected spouse and kids. I don’t think anyone on this site took the decision to divorce lightly. We Feel Deeply. A valuable resource is Susan Murphy Milano’s book titled Time’s Up. She literally created a “ roadmap to safety every step of the way” beginning with not sharing anything with your abuser. We live through the pain and feel it when we see our kids having to navigate through as well.

  • When I first found the messages between ex and his skank ex on FB I was in a shitty mood. Ex got in my face and demanded to know what the hell was wrong with me. He was a nasty douchebag when he thought I was vulnerable but not so much when I told him to fuck off.

    So i decided to ask him a couple of some, fairly innocent questions that I already knew the answer to to see if he’d lie.

    I asked him if he’d been on contact with any of his exes over the years (except his ex wife…..they had a daughter so they had to have contact) and he stopped his bullying, looked nervous, and said no. Then he decided that yes, maybe he had (he named skank) but it had only been a few times over LinkedIn.

    I had seen a recent conversation on fb they’d had (there were conversations going back our entire relationship but i knew they’d spoken recently) so i asked him if they were fb friends. Innocent right? Lots of people have exes in fb….I’ve got a few that I don’t speak privately to.

    He lied and said no. That’s when I knew. I knew he was full of shit and nothing that came out of his mouth could be trusted. I tried to get the truth but he just continued to lie and change his story based on what he realized i could prove. Then after a half assed apology I was informed that HE was miserable and maybe we should just get divorced unless I could change.

    Rich. So after a couple more months of his phony bullshit and him making zero effort to do anything but show me his ass I decided he wasn’t that good if a deal. I dragged him to counseling where he lied and bullshitted some more and the counselor told me I was wasting my time.

    I filed after that. He cried and begged…..apparently he didn’t want a divorce but was ok using the threat to bully.

    Whayever. He’s a pathetic old guy with a shitty black toupee at 65 years old (I’m a good bit younger) who can’t get it up and is as phony as they come.

    I have a lovely bf who is closer to my age and even though it’s thinning has his real hair.

  • When I confronted him he said he had just been ‘stringing her along,’ and she was an ‘insignficant tramp’.

    As IF that would make me feel better.

  • DO NOT CONFRONT! Go underground, get your ducks in a row, take notes, get a game plan. It will be hard and painful as fuck but the results will be so worth it and there will not be shit he can say. There were prostitutes (lost count at 117), money spent, burner phones, iPad, journals, little bags of toys in the car (hidden), the list goes on. I watched him, got myself together (took awhile) and then one day I busted him out on everything. He broke like apathetic sad sappy sausage. I had a place to live, half the money, a divorce lawyer and a strong urge to put up with his BS NO MORE!!
    Glorious! He was convinced I had a Private Dectective. Omg it was epic.
    You can do this!!!!!

  • I would say that there were four confrontations in the span of 13 months that I did the pick me dance. Then there were the 14 sessions of marriage counselling, the couple’s therapy weekend, and three additional sessions with a new counsellor in which matters around the infidelity were discussed at times. There were also dozens of confrontations in which I questioned him about thing as I was untangling the skein of all of this.

    Not once was he honest about anything in his answers. Not once.

    If it wasn’t for discovering the secret email account, I would probably never have known the truth of his relationship with this woman. If that hadn’t prompted me to start doing some investigating, I wouldn’t have discovered that she had been around for over 21 months before he left the marriage. Or that he had an emotional affair with another woman previously, that he attempted to make physical. Or that he had a third woman he played around with as he was leaving me to be with the OW.

    Do I now know the full truth of all the he had done?

    Probably not. I have definitely learned that just when I think there isn’t any more to learn, something else gets revealed.

    But I don’t care anymore. I know enough to know that it was bad and that none of it was my fault.

    Confrontation never yields truth from a cheater. They will always attempt to minimize what they have done, tell as little as possible to get away with it all (of course, they’ll say they were protecting your feelings when you learn the truth later on), and downright make crazy shit up to cover their butts.

    Yeah, ultimately, all the confrontations were a fail on many fronts. No truth. Not real remorse. No respect. No changed behaviour. No life restored.

    • “But I don’t care anymore. I know enough to know that it was bad and that none of it was my fault.”

      Ugh. He treated you terribly. I’m so sorry. I’m glad you don’t care anymore. And you’re right about confronations–they are fruitless and pointless.

      There’s such sadness in what you wrote. I hope you achieve a “life restored” for yourself.

      Once we recognize that the betrayal is not our fault, we have to resign ourselves to the painful truth that someone in whom we put our love and trust did not respect us, that that person lies and cheats with impunity, that he/she has no trouble seeking self-gratification at our expensive.

      Feeling “happy” and moving on without flashbacks and incredible sadness is another mountain, one that I’m still climbing as are many of you. I hear we”ll arrive at the summit on a Tuesday.

      Good luck to everyone.

  • I knew the pass code to her phone, but I didn’t want to be that guy. So I asked if I could use it to see if I preferred Android to Apple before I upgraded. “I don’t really like people using my phone” was her response! I was her BF of 2 yrs. I never got to use her phone. started doing lots of keep fit in the 2-4 months build up. Went out a lot with her friends, without me; didn’t want to continue the home improvement projects we’d started. Went to work dressed up. I thought it was a guy at work but was told I was paranoid (chumped before see). Wanted to do a yes year! Had only been intimate once in 4 months (extremely unusual) blamed lack of drive on the sad passing of her grandmother who, she only had seen twice in 2 years. I walked and asked questions where the answers did not make sense and were clearly camouflage (it was the same💩as I’d heard the last time). When I left the argument we had was very heated as I was destroyed again. said some things I shouldn’t of. She never comforted me,she just kept saying I was paranoid. 1 month after the split I pulled up next to her at a set of traffic lights. The guy I thought she was having an affair with was sat next to her, I lost it completely😞. She said she can see who she wants now and that he is divorced now( she told me all the guys at work we’re married so there’s no need to worry). She still won’t admit it!!
    I posted a comment in the comment bloke to a post on here, she had seen it and said it was no wounded I was paranoid if I take advice from a site like this. Oh really, that was just another tick in the box to confirm my suspicions. You guys are awsome.

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