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UBT: ‘Mark Is Fine’

Dear Chump Lady,

After I kicked out my cheating ex-boyfriend Mark, he moved in with one of my best friends, Heidi, as a “roommate.” Yeah, right. I went no contact with them both because I needed to step away from the drama, but Heidi just sent me a Christmas card which I hoped you could put through the UBT.

“I hope you have a nice holiday and find Mr. Right. I know you have had a lot of struggles with men not being honest in the past. I have as well. Not everyone is out to ruin your life but I didn’t want to to talk to you about Mark living with me because I knew you had sore feelings, he did too. Sometimes I am surprised how you react to things and are very hasty in judgments. Mark is doing fine, he is very respectful, he is now working during the week. Honestly, if you wanted to rent a room to my ex-boyfriend Bill or my ex-husband Jessie I would not hold it against you. Actually I would probably thank you as they are struggling to pay all their bills as they make 1/3 of what you make. My dog loves Mark and I have gotten Mark to eat more healthy and get his car in better repair. He actually listens sometimes! I never hear him call anyone or receive any calls. I think he really loved you, but kept the room in case you might kick him out like when you two went to LA…”

This is me again. Mark lived rent-free for 6.5 years in my home, but kept his bachelor pad that entire time. I can’t believe he has my ex-friend making excuses for him. Anyway, I was stunned to get this message in the guise of a Christmas card. I keep repeating to myself Not My Monkeys, Not My Circus…


Dear CheaterDefeater,

That’s one smug little monkey you got there.

So, I’m confused why if Mark had a bachelor pad, he went to go (cough) “pay rent” with Heidi? I’m sure Heidi will be confused too eventually. But no matter, the important thing is that thanks to Heidi’s unwavering stewardship, Mark is now eating his vegetables.

Wow. What a man-child prize. No tag backs!

Now, to the UBT…

“I hope you have a nice holiday and find Mr. Right.

I hope you die alone.

Good luck on your eternal quest for Mr. Right. Perhaps you could bake some gingerbread men and crush their little sugar spirits this holiday season.

I know you have had a lot of struggles with men not being honest in the past.

I know you struggle with being a chump. Not me. Eyes wide open here. What’s that, Mark? Where’s my wallet? I left it on the counter, Sweetheart!

I have as well. Not everyone is out to ruin your life, but I didn’t want to to talk to you about Mark living with me because I knew you had sore feelings, he did too.

Not everyone is out to ruin your life. Just me. And Mark.

Sometimes I am surprised how you react to things and are very hasty in judgments.

I am surprised at how you reacted to your best friend fucking sheltering your boyfriend. Your conclusion that I’m a back-stabbing bitch was very hasty astute.

Mark is doing fine,

Enough about us. The important thing that Mark is fine. Better even.

he is very respectful,

He could never cheat on me. He respects me. In that can’t-introduce-you-to-anyone-yet sort of way, that conceals deep, abiding admiration. #UwouldntUnderstand #itsdeep

he is now working during the week.

He’s only a deadbeat for you! I’m sure I’ll see that paycheck. #sugarmomma

Honestly, if you wanted to rent a room to my ex-boyfriend Bill or my ex-husband Jessie I would not hold it against you.

Looking for Mr. Right? Here are some of my cast-offs.

Actually I would probably thank you as they are struggling to pay all their bills as they make 1/3 of what you make.

You know why you can’t keep a man? You emasculate them with your well-paying job. Makes their balls positively shrivel up and retract. Mark and I spend many evenings alone on the sofa with tweezers trying to pluck out his tiny retracted balls. Balls that YOU SHRUNK with your feminazi high-earning ways.

My dog loves Mark

My dog has bigger balls than Mark, but he emasculates no one. He is a dog, who earns no money.

and I have gotten Mark to eat more healthy and get his car in better repair. He actually listens sometimes!

Mark leaves all the adulting to me! #winning

I never hear him call anyone or receive any calls.

Mark would never cheat on me. Only you. I’m listening, keeping constant vigilance and I can say with a high degree of certainty that he NEVER receives any calls. On the cell phone that I know about.

I think he really loved you, but kept the room in case you might kick him out like when you two went to LA…”

Mark only keeps that extra apartment because of his fear of abandonment that you instilled. Too bad you couldn’t realize how much he loved you. Unlike me, who is here to work on Mark’s abandonment issues and give him the unconditional love you could not. An extra $20, Mark? Well okay, dear, if you’re sure it won’t emasculate you. You know where my wallet is…


This is a rerun. I’m sure Mark is still fine. 

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Evenings on the couch… With a tweezers… Trying to pluck his retracted balls….
    I am dying. Wth! Where do you come up with this shit?!
    I love it and I’m here for it.
    I think I might be in love with your brain CL.
    I’m off to have a fab day!
    P. S. Screw Mark and Heidi!

    • omg I just sprayed my coffee on all my paperwork, because I visualized it as I was reading it.Tracy I just love your snark. you made my day. Thank you.

      • ‘roommate’.

        Reminds me of ex fuckwit insisting to me, the Court, and my solicitor, that the rat faced whore was just his *lodger*. ????????????

        • Lol. You know those judges have to have a hard time keeping a straight face many times. They are pretty used to facing down liars.

          • ????????

            First time we were in Court, fuckwit looked at me across the table, and said, earnestly, “if you haven’t sold the caravan by the time the site fees are due, I’ll pay half”

            I glanced at the Judge, she actually rolled her eyes. ????????

            • Ha, I never had to go to court. My lawyer said I could, but it wasn’t necessary unless I had something I wanted to say. He had all my info, so I didn’t feel the need, and I really at that time never wanted to see or hear from FW again. Still don’t.

              I don’t know if FW ever went or not. I would say yes, because he was a controller (Police Officer) and I am sure he still imagined he could control the proceedings. I knew he couldn’t.

              • I don’t know how it works in the US, but in the UK, the only way to avoid Court would be to accept whatever the co-respondent posited.

                In the UK, in a long marriage, the law is that assets are split 50/50.

                Fucktard wouldn’t accept that, he actually proposed 60/40 in his favour. ????

                So my solicitor told me if I wasn’t prepared to acceot that, (which she advised me not to) the only alternative was to go to Court.

                We went to Court, and I ended up with £27000, and he got a barrister’s bill of £800. ????????????

    • I laughed so so hard at that. Needed it after a shit day of dealing with courts and my very own Voldemort

      • I’m sorry you’re still going through that mindfucking shit show, hun.

        Rest assured, it *will* come to an end, and you’ll be out the other side, and *free*. Love ‘Voldemort’. ????????

        • Here I assume it varies by state. In my state at the time, the only time I would have had to go would be if the divorce were contested. The lawyers worked it out and we both agreed, so it was a non contested divorce, so neither of us were required to go.

          Had he contested, I would have just had the lawyer put more time on the temp/separation/maintenance period. He could have gotten me up to three years.

          Though our state was no fault, there are many ways to work around that in terms of settlements, and temp maintenance while legally separated is one of them. It is one of the two reasons I insisted that he file. It put the onus on him to provide all the documents, and my lawyer could use some of the info I provided as an abandonment issue. What it boiled down to was FW had several years to plan his exit unknown to me, so the law provided me with time to plan my situation and get on my feet.

          In the end the settlement was considered 50/50 but I got some money up front in terms of him paying the house payment and my car payment, plus he took over all the bills, since he admitted he ran most of them us.

          He actually got all the property except for one small house on a small property, which I got. But, it was paid off. The rest of the properties still had mortgages, which he took over and got put in his name only. I didn’t care because I couldn’t afford them, and didn’t want them.

          He eventually sold them all, and racked up huge gambling debts, then they had to file BR. What an idiot. He could have been so well off, but he threw it all away. I have often wondered if it was he who ran up those debts or her. He just never seemed to be the type to do that. But, obviously “what did I know”?

  • Geez…..the level of dumb bitchery some of my fellow women achieve newer ceases to amaze me.

    Good luck Heidi….you clearly need it.

  • Mark just needed the right women to make him eat his veggies, take care of his car and be a big boy.
    More importantly the dog likes him.
    Gosh, CheaterDefeater if only you had been nicer like Heidi. Like that time you were at fault when you two went to LA.., good thing Mark kept the room, for moments like that.

    Good thing he never receives or makes calls in front of Heidi.

    • There’s always the stealthiness of quiet texting ! What some women will do to say “I have a man ! And you don’t frenemy !” What a twat.

        • The cunt is a noble body part and a feminist term for said body part. That word should not be disgraced with the likes of this monster.

          • Bullshit. I’ve never heard any feminist ever claim that ‘cunt’ was a ‘noble body part’ ????????????

            Who the fuck are you trying to kid?

            I have a little coterie of lesbian friends – I ran this by them, and they all said, WTF??!!

            In fact, lesbians routinely call arseholes of whatever sex, *fucking arseholes*. Done.

            • Yeah, I had never heard the c word as anything but an insult.

              Which is the case of OWhores is deserving.

            • Sorry, but this former Director of a Women’s Studies program disagrees. There’s a wonderful book by Inga Muscio titled “Cunt,” and in Eve Ensler’s “The Vagina Monologues” there’s an equally fabulous reclaiming of the word.

  • I have never wanted an update so badly… would love to hear the latest from Cheater Defeater on this!

  • I think Heidi must be high on hopium.

    That is one confused bunny right there and has more than an underlying whiff of things ‘not quite going as well as she’s making out’. What it clearly demonstrates is how well you did to go no contact and step away from the drama because there sure is gonna be a lot of that around those parts. Good decision.

    That she even feels entitled to send it to you those makes me seethe with anger but its content is so completely vapid and nonsensical and entitled it’s no worth doing anything other than having a good laugh at Hi-De-Hi’s expense.

  • She’s deluded, she’s sending the card for a reason. She never heard him receive or take calls, she’s the marriage police. She doesn’t trust him.
    She’s got a lifetime of misery there, let her enjoy it.

    • I think you’re right. She’s really saying to her former friend that he’s all hers, and don”t even think about it. She’s marking her territory. Of course CheaterDefeater wants nothing to do with either one of them. Heidi probably loves to create drama and problems when there is none. CheaterDefeater has moved on and ‘abandoned’ them, and she can’t stand it.

    • I did my own UBT of this letter down below, but while I was reading it, I kinda noticed that Heidi-Hoe here sort of unravels as the letter goes on. She starts out on her high horse of “I hope you have a good holiday and find Mr. Right” and “Mark is very respectful” to “Please take one of my exes” to “Well..I never hear him make calls” and then actually starts to sound like she’s trying to convince herself more than anyone else that he’s FINE by the time she gets to “He just kept the bachelor pad in case you kicked him out…”

      Like I visualize her writing this ridiculous card, slowly becoming more shaky and nervous, by the time she gets to the last part she’s on the edge of panic…reassuring herself “Mark is FINE. HE’s FINee…EVERYTHIGN IS FINE HE DOESN’T MAKE ANY PHONE CALLS HE”S FINE….”

  • She’s trying to convince herself that all is well. And she’s cruel to send this. Its dripping with condescension and insincerity.

    By the way, they aren’t tweezing out Mark’s balls (love the image); she’s shoving them in deeper.

    Oh and Mark has figured out how to text, hence the lack of calls. He’s a big boy now!

    • I like the part about him not calling anyone.

      If they’re just “roommates” what does it matter who he calls? That right there is proof enough that Heidi is full if shit.

      I hope she’s enjoying her prize.

    • Or, he continues to triangulate them by mentioning CheaterDefeater to Heidi every chance he gets. Yes, Dudder, I agree she is smelling something fishy with Mark. This letter and the column made me laugh for real today – it feels good to laugh.

    • Exactly. One of her many tells is starting a sentence with “honestly”. When somebody does that you know some BS is sure to follow. She’s using Cheaterdefeater as a means of deluding herself that Mark isn’t cheating. If she tells somebody that he did cheat on in the past that it is so, then magically, it is so.
      Cheaters do love some magical thinking.

  • It’s unbelievable to me that it has taken 5+ years of being out of the mindfuck before I can actually recognize ‘mindfuck’. 5+ years ago, when I was struggling with being discarded and feeling like I just wasn’t worth anything, I would have taken this ‘missive’ at face value…, and been mindfucked again. Now it’s totally absurd that people really think this way. CL was spot on with the translation. Poor Heidi, except that she absolutely deserves what she gets when that day will arrive. It may have taken CheaterDefeater 6 years to get rid of the loser, but she did. Now she needs to immediately throw Heidi’s crap in the trash so she isn’t dealing with stupidity like this anymore. Wow! It’s astonishing.

  • Heidi won the boobie prize and is upset, no one acknowledges she won! It doesn’t seem to matter the prize is a POS. Crazy, how some need the triangle going, to feel good.

  • Sounds like Heidi is a ghostwriter of “aesop’s fables”… poor delusional thing.

    Cheaters don’t change, they just change partners. They can’t “adult”… they can’t give up the adrenaline rush they get from lying and fucking random strangers (or soulmates)… they take their character everywhere they go.

    • The letter is quite amusing, really.

      If Heidi-hoe was really feeling so secure in her ‘relationship’ with mummy’s boy Mark, she wouldn’t feel the need to send such a spiteful, passive-aggressive missive.

      But the dumb cunt just *has* to attempt to triangulate, to try and inveigle CheaterDefeater into a half arsed pick me dance, because it’s the only way this bitch can feel as if she’s actually *won* something.

      Way to go, CheaterDefeater. Let them wallow in their Brussels sprouts together.

      Heidi-hoe, ever heard of burner phones?????????????

  • Wow, that is a textbook case of a passive-aggressive OW pick-me-dancer. Every little remark is a tiny slap in the face, from how much better Mark lives (eating his vegetables) to the fact that she’s so sure he’s not secretly call other women to cheat (I wonder how she knows how that works?) to even trying to line up CheaterDefeater with one of her less-desirable ex’es. (As a man, this whole thing is just so alien to me). I can’t believe this woman could ever be considered a “friend” at all.

    • TTW– Cheaters are like Manchurian candidates who are raised among us and can pass for normal, patrioric citizens for years but will suddenly transform from trigger phrases like “Your husband/wife doesn’t appreciate you!” or “I wish my husband/wife appreciated me like you do!” Then boom! The covert fuckwit training kicks in and they drop trou.

      • Actually “patrioric” is a trigger word. I’m so sorry I just activated a dozen fuckwit trolls who were lurking on the site.

        I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Fuckwit party.

        • I’m a UK chump. Can you explain what “patrioric” means?

          I googled it, but all I got was some stuff about tablecloths on Pinterest. ????

    • Sometimes the cheater will try to encourage the chump to move on and find someone else for image management reasons. Nitwit even tried to set me up with one of his male friends, who he may or may not have slept with. That way he has someone in “his camp” reporting back to him and he can say to the world, “See I’m not such a bad guy! Look how quickly NMMNC got over me and found someone else. All’s well that ends well, right? If NMMNC really loved me, she wouldn’t have moved on so quickly, so my cheating was justified.” It really is all about image management with them.

      Needless to say, I didn’t take the bait.

      • Yeah that was some image management bullshit there. If you’d gone out with his friend, not only would he be able to say “See? She’s moved on!” he could work it into his twu wuv story by saying it all “worked out” because you ended up with his friend.

        Excuse me while I go find a barf bag…

        • I actually think my ex has mixed feelings about my dating someone else.

          If I DO get a new partner:

          1. all’s well that ends well will be the takeaway. Great image management!!

          2. my ex will be oddly enraged/jealous (he’s told me this, although he’s a liar so grain of salt and all that)

          3. my ex worries that this new partner will supplant my ex as grandpa, which would “cut him to the core.” [Note: I used that cut-me-to-the-core phrase when I told him of the effect of the betrayal on me. He took that, too.]

          4. If I get a new partner, my ex imagines the man will be rich, rich, rich, and I’ll live the high life. [Gotta admit that this has some appeal!!]

          If I DON’T get a new partner:

          5. …and never have sex again, my ex told me that he will find me on my death bed and have sex with me. Yes, he was drunk when he wrote this but damn, that’s some creepy, sicko thinking right there.

          Bottom life: Recently, I’ve realized that caring AT ALL about how he reacts to what I do or don’t do in my future gives him control over me. Therefore, I won’t allow any thoughts of him to enter into whatever decision I make down the road.

          I’m letting go, and it feels good!!! This after 35+ years of worrying every damn day about this man’s feelings and reactions.

          • Yikes! That is disturbing on so many levels. If Nitwit had said that to me I would have prayed to die of some very contagious disease to keep him away.

          • “… find me on my death bed and have sex with me”

            O. M. G!!

            That is just so… I just can’t. ????

            Being drunk is no excuse, “wine makes a window for the truth”.

        • My ex always (condescendingly) says to me, “I hope you’ll find someone to love you and live in happiness.” I always tell him, “The only reason you hope that is so you then won’t have to feel guilty about what a shit person you are.”

          You have all reinforced that my assumption is right…image management on his part.

          • The version my FW said to me was; “I just can’t get the feelings back for you” It must have been at one of my most lucid moments, or maybe more pissed off moments, because I said; “Don’t worry, when I am ready I am pretty sure I won’t have any trouble finding someone to desire me”

            It was the week I let him come back because he was oh so sorry and wanted to “work things out” yeah sure, just gave him another chance to stomp me.

  • That’s one insecure Bitch! Your so better off without these two assholes in your life.
    Good luck to you ????

    • Mitz – yes, you are right, victim blaming is rampant and THIS is why I read this column and speak the TRUTH about MY STORY – to stop the incessant victim blaming that is rampant in this world. This is one tiny step toward changing this.

    • “Why does the chump always get shame heaped upon them ?”

      I think the narrative is gradually changing, and CL, and LACGAL, has had a *huge* influence on that. I’ve noticed in a lot of articles I read, CL’s isms, like “pick me dance”, “cake” etc have become common parlance, which is *brilliant*.

      I also think we Chumps have a part to play; it’s important we challenge the usual apologia for cheating, and stand up for the fact it is *abuse*. We don’t accept lying, theft and abuse in any other scenarios, and cheating is no different. In fact, it’s *worse*.

      Lying, theft, and abuse are never excusable, but when these things are perpetrated on people who loved and trusted, by *those* they loved and trusted, the abuse is ramped up several notches.

      Anyone can become a victim of liars and fraudsters, but in a sense, it’s not *personal*, criminals have no personal axe to grind, they just batten on anyone who’s available.

      Lying, cheating and abuse within an intimate relationship is a whole other ball game. “It was not a stranger who betrayed me, but you, my familiar faithful friend”.

      Now, I never allow apologia for cheating to pass, I always challenge it. A few weeks ago, I was at a WI meeting, (Women’s Institute) – someone was saying how much they loved “Anna Karenina”. I pointed out it was about a selfish, entitled adulteress, who betrayed a good man for a vapid womaniser, and then threw herself in front of a train because she was a drama queen who didn’t have the moral courage to admit she was a selfish idiot.

      Some disagreed with me, but I noted a couple of people who said, “yes, you’ve got something there”.

      Betrayal is one of the worst things any human being can do to another. *Never* let it go unchallenged.

      Sorry for the rant! ????

      • “Betrayal is one of the worst things any human being can do to another. *Never* let it go unchallenged.”

        Hear, hear.

      • “Lying, theft, and abuse are never excusable, but when these things are perpetrated on people who loved and trusted, by *those* they loved and trusted, the abuse is ramped up several notches.”

        Yes to this!!! It *is* worse.

        Also, I love your clarifying message regarding Anna Karenina. Interestingly enough, when I first met my ex (about 37 years ago), he was reading that book. Correction: he really wasn’t reading it, as it turns out. I think he had it on his nightstand to impress women. My 22 year-old self fell for the ruse. *sigh*

        Throughout our married lives, he would buy books for the bookcase and never read them. Lol. Shallow man.

        • Fuckwit told me when we first met, he loved reading. (mirroring me).

          Turned out
          he never read at all, there were no books in his house, and none of his family had any books either.

          I don’t think many of us realise what a massive betrayal cheating is when we’re young, and until it happens to us.

          I can’t read, or watch, anything now that romanticises cheating – it just makes me sick with rage.

          • Same here, and I have my line ready when I hear joking about adultery by anyone. Luckily being retired, I don’t get out much anymore.

      • I don’t understand why these things (embezzlement, fraud, endangerment to health) NOT considered crimes when they are perpetrated upon a spouse? Is is from the history of old laws that considered the female to be the property of the male?

      • chumpnomore66 – THANK YOU for your dialogue and for continuing to voice your view that cheating is abuse. The more we voice our view, the more people will consider it -as you saw with the few people in that in that audience – it only takes a few to spread the ideas…

      • I wrote my thesis on women’s suicide in literature. Anna Karenina and Madame Bovary were very similar in the what you described. The men who wrote these novels made sure their wayward female characters were punished grotesquely and died in a spasm of terror, regretting their choices. Anna literally jumped in front of her own karma train. At that point, the romantic ideal of ‘love’ and moral sensibilities came with the rise of the novel, industrialized economies, and the middle class. These women’s deaths were patterned after the much earlier novel, Goethe’s “The sorrows of young Werthe.” Weather is an effete upperclass fop who makes a spectacle of himself, committing suicide because he is so overwrought that he can’t have the rich young married lady that he feels entitled to. Contrast these deaths with Shakespeare’s “the Rape of Lucretia”, which precedes the era of the novel. In that story, a young woman draws a sword and plunges it into her side defiantly, shouting, “I do unto my body what he hath wrought upon me.” This is suicide motivated by bravery and political rebellion against the tyrant king and his rapist son. Lucretia’s naked body is then carried through Rome by her family and inspires a revolt amongst all the people of the kingdom.

        But I digress. The point is, cheaters aren’t worth it, so get away and get a life. Reading is fun.

  • I hope that in the time of Covid, CheaterDefeater has since rocked her world and is safe, sound, sane and happy.

    Heidi is wondering where she hid Mark’s shriveled balls because he left her the second he found a more financially flush sugar momma, who didn’t insist he eat his vegetables or maintain his vehicle.

    And before he moved out, they both got Covid, in addition to a raging case of syphilis that Heidi doesn’t know about yet.

  • But what if the cheater never cheats on the AP (like Heidi ) ?

    She’s sure Mark won’t cheat on her and I’m willing to bet my last £ my Ex won’t cheat on his OWife .

    I know Heidi is the marriage police but she seems sure otherwise why would she bother being with him ? Can a cheater never cheat again ?

    • So what if he never cheats on Heidi again? Heidi says she’s usually dating underachieving losers (all of them earned little) and Mark is no better if she needs to teach him about taking care of his car and eating his greens.

      Why would anybody care whether Mark cheats on Heidi or not?

      • The saddest karma of all, if neither one cheats, is that they will have to sleep with each other for the rest of their lives. Ewwww.

    • You have to trust that they suck, Karen.

      One indication that they suck is the lack of real remorse. If a person has truly changed, they finally be how awful they had been to their original partner and show clear remorse. CL has resources on how to differentiate between real remorse and real BS.

      A changed cheater that no longer cheats is a person who stopped seeing himself as the centre of the universe. No indication of this happening here.

    • Heidi already listens in to see if Mark receives or makes inappropriate calls. She helps him with his childish eating habits and she feels disturbed enough that she needs to rub it in Cheaterdefeater’s face. So, even if he never cheats which is highly unlikely she’s already living in the misery of triangulation. She is not acting like a secure happy person.
      The pain you feel at the thought that your ex won’t cheat with the new person only means you haven’t gotten to the point where you realize he is NO prize yet and you still blame yourself (just guessing coz this was me). Its ok, it comes….trust that they suck.

    • Chump Change makes some really good points.

      I know how you hurt Karen. It took me a while to let go of the intense pain and rejection. I think that just tells how much we truly loved. That is not a bad thing. I would still rather be the one that loved/trusted than the one who betrayed and hurt someone so badly.

      Depending on your situation you may not see the “karma” (I don’t really love that word) but I am praying God will give you a glimpse when it happens.

      To me “karma” is better expressed as “reaping what we sow”. I don’t think anyone escapes who they are, unless we make a real change in our life and attempt to make amends to those we hurt the most. If that happens you will know, if he never changes; you may not get to see it, but he still can’t escape who he is, so he will reap what he sows. Maybe in a big way, maybe in small cuts and bruises, and he will likely not admit it to anyone.

    • Karen, surely you jest? Cheaters cheat because they have no integrity, get thrills from using people, lying to them and fucking randos. To change personality traits like these would take years of concerted effort and hard work, if ever. I do not believe in unicorns. Never seen one, never heard of one.

      • I agree Motherchumper. The type of person who chronically cheats and abuses (whether psychologically or physically, but I should say that doesn’t really matter. Not all abuse is physical, but all physical abuse involves psychological abuse. I digress) rarely, if ever, changes. And the ones who do take years, and YEARS of therapy, introspection, humility, and difficult work to really do so. Most chronic abusers, cheaters, and narcissists do not do this for several reasons. Going off of Lundy Bancroft (author of “Why Does He Do That?”) some of the main reasons are:

        1) They do not think there is anything wrong with what they do. Abusers do not do anything they do not believe is morally correct. They operate on a value system where they feel justified and entitled to the way they act. To the non-abuser/normal person, their value systems are absolutely ridiculous and riddled with double-standards, pot-holes, and selfishness, but they see nothing wrong with it. People who see nothing wrong with their behavior will not seek help for it, nor will they see a reason to change it. The actual work it takes to change a long-held value system they largely benefit from is not worth it to them.

        2) Cheaters and abusers do not consider the loss of a relationship or connection as something to grieve. For a non-abuser/chump, we see the end of our marriages, relationships, friends, and family as major losses because we value these things. Cheaters and abusers don’t, because the only thing they truly value is themselves. This is how cheaters and abusers can just drop one relationship like a hot potato and have a new one started the next week. Or drop a relationship, have a new one already started, but STILL try to mess with you. Because it’s about them getting what they want, when they want it, and how they want it. Your feelings do not factor into this because they don’t see that as valuable. It’s an obstacle to them getting what they feel entitled to.

        3) They often see therapy as a way to bolster their already self-centered belief systems. Therapy and anger management don’t work for chronic abusers because therapy is meant to help validate and heal you. Abusers and cheaters are master manipulators, so they know how to strategically lie to get therapists on their side, and then use what is said to them do validate their fucked up values. Therapists are just one more servant in their world of ME. They also often end up weaponizing psychological terms they pick up from their sessions. If you get angry at one of their lies or transgressions, they can regurgitate things like “You need to learn to understand your aggression towards me is not effective communication” or “Your harshness harms my self eseteem” or other word salad. This is why therapy with a cheater is so often disastrous. They’re still in it for themselves.

        4) As far as Karma goes, I don’t often talk about my own religious/philosophical systems, but if I had to say what I am I would call myself Buddhist. Honestly, I can’t stand it when “karma” is used when someone means “punishment.” That, as I have been taught to understand, is not karma. Karma is something we accumulate as individuals throughout our lives in the knowledge we gain and lessons we learn. Karma is not something we will see in our current lifetimes. That is something to be seen in the next life (the famous Buddha, Shakyamuni, we typically think of when we hear that name, was reborn 5,000 times before he achieved Mahaparinirvana, final enlightenment.) We don’t see other people’s karma. We only see our own. It is a reflection of our own choices and lessons and what we have done with our own lives. It isn’t “Why isn’t that asshole getting punished for wronging me?” it’s “What can I do today that will bring good to the world?” or “What can I learn now that will bring me closer to a better life?”

        So, no, the likelihood of seeing this person, “Mark,” suffer some kind of retribution for his selfishness is slim to none. Don’t hang your hopes on it. Even if he did manage to put in REAL effort to admitting to his wrongs, changing his values, and becoming a truly better person, it would be years and years before anyone actually felt the fruits of that labor, and Cheater Defeater doesn’t need to waste her time waiting for that.

        • “Therapists are just one more servant in their world of ME. They also often end up weaponizing psychological terms they pick up from their sessions.”

          I made the mistake of calling his therapist when I received some scary texts from him shortly after discovery. I began by introducing myself and saying, “I know you can’t talk to me, but I believe I can give you information.” I explained that I felt increasingly worried for my physical safely, that I’d received threats about God’s wrath etc…

          The therapist immediately told my ex about my call.

          Days later my ex actually said this to me, “I often don’t feel safe with you.”


          • Yep…there it is. I can 100% guarantee he’d been manipulating the therapist into thinking he’s a victim. The call may have actually been a surprise to that therapist because they’d probably been lead to believe you were a horrible bog witch and whatever else he needed them to believe to flip the script. One thing they do is take their actions and turn them into yours. It’s usually mistakenly referred to as projection. But the difference between projection and the way cheaters and abusers turn reality on its head, is projection is when someone takes their own personal fears and flaws and sees them in others. But what a manipulator does is they make the things they do your fault. The cheater can say “I don’t feel safe with you” because, in his value system, you are not allowed to say anything to anyone that threatens his image as the victim/perfect guy. Even though he was the one threatening and scaring YOU. To him, what you did was worse because your truth threatened the fantasy he’d built up with that therapist. In his world of him being the king and you the peasant, anything that you do that could bring him down is a threat.

            • It took me awhile to recognize the pattern. I deserved it when I offended his sense of superiority.

        • Lundy Bancrift’s book is *brilliant*, it helped me so much. I remember reading it and gasping, yes! this!

          It really helps to have someone else articulate what has happened to one. Dr. George Simon is excellent also.

        • Oh my god. The therapy comment is so true and I didn’t see this til now. Apparently both the OW and my unfaithful were told by their therapists that being in a relationship with each other right after cheating on me and the OW’s chump is a good idea… christ.

    • Karen: cheaters suck even when they’re not actively cheating. My STBX is exhibit #1 (we are both women). In the 14 years between her two affairs, I do believe that she did not actively sleep with somebody else. (Except for the time she kissed her best friend…) But the whole time, she was engaging in what I now call “affair lite” behaviors – emotionally intense friendships with people she was attracted to, bitching about me to mutual friends and family for kibbles, treating our kids like her personal cheerleader crew, etc. While I got more and more tired for no obvious reason, STBX acted more and more inconvenienced and embarrassed by me, and wore me down until I agreed to things I knew would be bad for me (like having another kid). While I take some responsibility for agreeing to those things, my fellow chumps can understand the feeling of being in the mindfuck blender 24/7.

      And then – 14 years later!!! – STBX couldn’t fight the fuckwittedness anymore, because her narc mom died and her lack of core self was brutally exposed. Maybe your ex and OWife will experience something similar, who knows? Life can be craptastic, and cheaters can’t sit in difficulty for any real length of time. But, in the meantime, even if ex is not actively cheating, he’s still a fuckwit, and probably performing all kinds of mindfucks on OWife.

      All I know is that I should have left STBX after her first affair, let her find somebody else to subject to her fuckwittedness. Would have saved me a lot of heartache and energy. I don’t plan to wait around for the karma bus to hit her – indeed, I hope for my kids’ sakes that she finds a decent next partner (though that’s unlikely). And the karma bus has already hit her, since she started dating 3 weeks after I moved out (we are not even divorced yet) – during a PANDEMIC – and that “relationship” ended a couple of weeks after I found out about it.

      All best to you. For some of us, I think it might be better just to throw ourselves into some new major endeavor so we don’t have to dwell on our exes too much. Got any hobbies? 😉

      • True, sometimes you have to re focus. For me, I had a fairly new job, and it worked for me to really focus on that job, and to start taking college classes.

        Also, if divorced and one is ready, the old saying is; “the best way to get over a man, is to get under another” Or woman. ????

        But, hobbies are safer. ????

      • LezChump, thank you for the term! Affair-lite behaviours, I was never really to nail it down or explain to others.

        ‘While I got more and more tired for no obvious reason, STBX acted more and more inconvenienced and embarrassed by me, and wore me down until I agreed to things I knew would be bad for me’

        This was exactly my fuckwit throughout five years after our child was born. And I’d say this is one of the worst triggers for me still and left my confidence scarred.

        I’d add the touchiness with other women. Always in a way not challengeable (brother’s wife etc), the oggle-behaviour (my supreme spackle for this was his short-sightedness when I was told about complaints by the senior female office manager in private). And definitely the intense, puppy-love like friendships, being fascinated by strangers when we went on holidays. Making it clear that he’d prefer a group setting than one-on-one.

    • Karen I think I can relate to your thoughts on this. Or maybe I’m projecting my own here but I struggle with those questions as well. My first long term relationship where my guy cheated it was clear at the end he was not a good dude–he slowly became an addict, got deep into a not great group of people, and screwed around more than I’ll ever know; obvious asshole. I took time, really worked on myself refused to date for awhile and then met husband. He was sooo nice such a nice guy that I couldn’t fathom he’d cheat ever. And not all cheaters were shitheads the entire marriage; I can say mine was a good father and husband for over 20 years. Because of that, I believe that not only will he not cheat on whore but he’ll HAVE TO make it work because he’s a ‘nice guy’ and the only reason he would cheat is because his wife was so horrible. But now he’s found his perfect match and to prove it’s perfect he’d never cheat on her and they’ll have an amazing life matched up perfectly in Perfectworld, rescuing each other from their evil exes. Also, he doesn’t have any family/friends where we live so that’s all he really has left; he has to make it work. I truly don’t think he’d cheat again, and it sucks because that would mean to me that he doesn’t just cheat for the thrill or the opportunity or he’s just a flat out dirtbag like my first long term guy did, it might be because either I was the issue or he really did find love. Oh, and he’s also a raging fuckstick because he could’ve communicated to me and have done 50 different things other than cheat.

      I trust that he sucks. IF he was unhappy he could’ve given me a hint. IF he would’ve spent time focusing on our marriage instead of allowing another person into it, I believe we would’ve been happy still. IF he was even thinking about another woman, he could’ve made dozens of different choices before giving himself permission to spend time with her, telling her the intimate stories of our life together while listening to hers, through their victim viewpoints of course. I sincerely hope karma hits him smack between the eyes (or legs) but I’ll never know or see it since I’m already NC and after the divorce is complete and my kids and I move he’ll never have a way to contact us again. It still stings that Mr. Nice Guy did this. But whether it was ‘real love’ or the textbook case of mid-life crisis, it doesn’t matter. I highly doubt I’ll ever get my pound of flesh because his life, his victories or failures, his choices, are no longer any of my business (and vice versa) and I have to focus more on my life and my tattered self esteem instead. And I REALLY hate the idea that I’ll never get to see if/when it all crashes down on him, but I have accepted it. Well….mostly accepted it. I’m not at meh.

      • ThursdaysChild:

        “I truly don’t think he’d cheat again, and it sucks because that would mean to me that he doesn’t just cheat for the thrill or the opportunity or he’s just a flat out dirtbag like my first long term guy did, it might be because either I was the issue or he really did find love.”

        You weren’t the issue!!! Don’t accept that blame. Even if he doesn’t cheat again, you know that he’s a person of low character. So is she! They can’t trust each other. They do shitty things. Their lives are far from perfect. If you weren’t a good match, it’s because you’re not a cheater. You have a different value system.

        I know you say he was a good guy for many years, but was he really? I didn’t realize the depth of my ex’s depravity until I started to look back without the rose-colored glasses I had had firmly affixed to my nose. I thought he was a good guy, great phsyician, respected person and all that, but he really had a dark side that I ignored. I’m not saying that this is your case, but it can happen that we delude ourselves.

        Also, even though you’ve gone NC (good for you!), I suspect you’ll hear through the grapevine at some point in the future that all is not well in cheaterworld. But, who cares?? When you get to meh, you won’t. (Note: I’m not quite there either.)

        Good luck.

        • @Spinich-agree; I do understand I’m not to blame for his behavior and choices, not even a little bit. He had a buffet of options available to him and instead he dug around in trash. And I agree we have different value systems, now. I think for the first 20ish years we had the same values but I think mine were real, down to the marrow and I think maybe he mimed it for the most part, but even in that case he did a damn fine job of it. I’m sure I can question loads of things past if I choose to but it’s irrelevant–he’s officially a lying betraying cheater now. That will always be his first identifier from me and my family/friends forevermore.

          As to whether he’ll cheat on his whore, I kind of doubt it. It would shatter the “iT WaS lOvE” justification. And I can almost guarantee there would never be a situation where I’d find out; there is no grapevine that would reach him or anyone that knows him as I have no contact not only with him but with any person that would know both of us, and none of those people live in my town. I also think he’s too much of a coward to reach out in years to come. But it would be a slice of fun if one of those vines did make it over to me to let me know he’s suffering some sort of uncomfortable consequence over his choices. I would not mind that at all. 🙂

          • You might be right. But, my fwit claimed twu wuv too, and there is no one more prideful than he is about being right. Yet within a couple years of their marriage he had cheated on her several times. I wonder who he blamed for that. Had to be someone. Couldn’t have been sparkle twat because they were newlyweds.

            My daughter in law said she even left him for a couple days one of the times, but of course she was not going to go back to poverty, so she came back. Likely she did a payback. That is what you get when you dig in the trash. They are well suited to each other.

    • Karen… I was the second wife… it took him cheating on me to go back in history and realized he cheated in all relationships before ours… and after catching him cheating on the OW while looking for divorce ammunition, I resigned myself to the fact that he was always a cheater.

      When you married him, you didn’t think he’d cheat on you, right? AND… the OW wife appliance only “won him” because he was willing to cheat on his wife… are you following? By marrying the OW, all he did was open up the role of OW for someone else.

      Leopards do not change their spots.

  • Ah, a fine bit of kindling to help us get this yule log flaming up nicely. Thanks, Heidi!

  • Oh, how I LOVE the ‘Ode to Assface’ cartoon. I’m gleeful each time it’s published.

    It’s an excruciatingly accurate rendition of my ExH. His disgusting pimply butt–and equally disgusting 24/7 shitty attitude.

  • This is a great example of the other woman more concerned with beating out the first wife/girlfriend than getting the guy.

    I still believe the fastest way to implode that relationship would be to say those three words to Heidi:“he’s all yours“.

  • “I still believe the fastest way to implode that relationship would be to say those three words to Heidi:“he’s all yours“.” Yep, expose them. Throw that crap right out in front of God and everybody. That is like pouring cold water over a couple dogs in heat. A real buzzkill.

    • “Good luck luck with the cheating manchild. Didn’t your momma ever teach you ‘How you meet ‘em is how you’ll leave ‘em’?”

      • They met in a basement kitchen with rats scratching at the walls (apparently. Though he was a master at tall tales…) I met him a college 20 years ago, educating and bettering myself. I now have the career, 2 properties and 2 kids and a car. He has a skank, no money, on furlough and living in her parents back garden. Sponging off them too!

      • I can’t really say that about my ex. We were 18, he was in the military. He was kind to me, I was innocent. Yes we were young, but in those days folks got married younger, because sex before marriage was no acceptable as it is now. I didn’t even know what a red flag was at that point.

        It took me two years to figure out what made your toes curl re: sex. The first year he was in Vietnam, so it was after the next year of living together. He was 18/19, so he was learning too. While he had sex quite a bit as a teen, it evidently didn’t teach him much, I assume it was all about him. He had actually had a baby with a girl at age 16, and it was put up for adoption. But, of course since he was obviously already a liar, I didn’t find out about that until way after the marriage. Right at two years.

        But, all that does not take away from the fact that I adored him and put all I could into our marriage.

  • The letter writer makes me shake my head. Boyfriend of 6.5 years AND has his own place. But won’t commit to her after 6.5 YEARS???? What is up with people today? He was just using her. Why is she surprised he left her for another woman? He had no intentions of being there for her. The OW probably cheated on her XH. Ugh. They are all so messy. The letter writer needs to work on herself and wouldn’t why she allowed herself to be used.

  • There is nothing you can do to give women like Heidi a clue. There is something wrong with their vision and hearing, something wrong with their reasoning. They see themselves as the rescuer of lost causes, they want to feed, shelter and groom them, and keep them in continued dependence.

    I understand the impulse. I am maternal by nature, and throughout my life I have rescued “furballs” — cats and dogs, and fed them, and sheltered them, and took them to the vet, and sometimes found forever homes for them. It is expensive to do this. It has been my charity of choice. It has also brought me joy, and trusted companions for awhile. I never expect them to be self sufficient, because they are domesticated pets. They are eternal babies.

    I did not raise my two sons to be eternally dependent. I wanted them to learn to be fully functioning adults at some point in time. I cared for them as babies, but I taught them how to care for themselves, and grow up and take responsibility. They are grown men, not domesticated pets.

    The impulse is understandable, but the application of care is dysfunctional. Grown men who use women to take care of them are not willing to step up and be an adult. I don’t know how to help these women, and I know there are a lot of them in the population. I choose to stay as far away from them as possible.

    I think the phrase “Not my circus, not my monkeys,” is an appropriate response. I have too many other tasks to do to worry about these monkeys, or their problems.

  • THIS is why we love CL:
    Mark and I spend many evenings alone on the sofa with tweezers trying to pluck out his tiny retracted balls. “

  • She needs to send them Christmas presents: A few toys for FW and a child raising manual, along with a pacifier to her ‘friend.’

  • I don’t believe in stirring the pot, so I would burn this letter and never open another one from her again, knowing full well I made the right decision to get rid of a lying, cheating deadbeat husband ABD friend.

    But, if I was a pot stirer I would write back. Thanks for the note, Mark keeps me updated with everything in his life, so you don’t have to worry about me.

    I’m sure that would go over well, lol.

    Don’t do it, though.

    No contact. It is the clear path to Tuesday.

  • That little missive would go right in the garbage along with the friendship with Miss Passive Aggressive… “Ha ha, I got him and you don’t and I take better care of him and we are much happier than he was with you.”

    She is no friend and her dubious prize will eventually turn around and bite her in the ass. She earned it, and the OP got rid of a parasite. I hope she went on to have a fabulous life.

  • Marge, that is the BEST thing in the world she could do! Hahaha, I am ROFL. But you’re right, no contact is the way to go. But still…..hahahaha

  • “I arranged and paid for Mark’s car repairs.”

    “I put vegetables in meatballs so Mark will eat them, just like I do with my dog’s worm meds. The dog loves Mark.”

    “This is at least my 3rd loser live-in: Mark, Bill and Jessie sure knew how to use me as a mommy. Too bad you can’t have such success with men like I do.”

    “I sure feel important and useful and have wiped so much man-butt that I am like toilet paper. Men need me.”


  • Feminazi!! Omg I am sooo going to use that!! Hopefully I’ll remember lol. Turned 60 so time marches on( people are telling me I don’t look 60 so 5 years out looks good on me I guess)

  • So Cheater-Defeater’s job and financial stability emasculated Mark but Heidi nagging him to get his car fixed, eat his vegetables, and forbidding him from calling anyone else is somehow NOT emasculating?

    OK Schmoopie.

    Judging from the letter I’d say Mark has done a good job of emasculating himself. Like the line in Crazy Rich Asians: “It’s not my job to make you feel like a man. I can’t turn you into something you’re not.”

  • I”m sorry, I missed something. He still has his “Bachelor pad”, but had to go live with the
    “friend”? There aren’t too many explanations for that…

  • “I hope you have a nice holiday and find Mr. Right.”

    No I don’t. I hope you spend Christmas alone in your empty apartment because if you actually are enjoying life with a better man, then I can’t get my ego high. I need you to be pathetic so I can justify this.

    “I know you have had a lot of struggles with men not being honest in the past.”

    Not that I totally have anything to do with that…

    “I have as well.”

    This is totally also not my fault for sleeping with them while they were still in relationships.

    “Not everyone is out to ruin your life but I didn’t want to to talk to you about Mark living with me because I knew you had sore feelings, he did too.”

    It’s not that we planned this behind your back, it’s your reaction to us planning this behind your back. You’re just too paranoid and resentful, we couldn’t be honest with you. *Please ignore aforementioned comment about men being dishonest with you, this doesn’t count.

    “Sometimes I am surprised how you react to things and are very hasty in judgments.”

    See? You’re just so irrational about your best friend and boyfriend sleeping with each other. We’re JUST roommates…here, please read the attached excerpt from Esther Perel on letting go of anger…

    “Mark is doing fine, he is very respectful, he is now working during the week.”

    He’s being a grownup and goes to work, during the week even!

    “Honestly, if you wanted to rent a room to my ex-boyfriend Bill or my ex-husband Jessie I would not hold it against you. Actually I would probably thank you as they are struggling to pay all their bills as they make 1/3 of what you make.”

    Please take one of my leftovers and support them and their bills. I’m being generous here.

    “My dog loves Mark and I have gotten Mark to eat more healthy and get his car in better repair.”

    He’s a big boy taking care of the dog and doesn’t get dessert until he’s finished all his brussel’s sprouts!

    “He actually listens sometimes!”


    “I never hear him call anyone or receive any calls.”

    Well…I never “hear” him call anyone… But, we’re just roommates anyway so t-that’s…not important… …r-right? RIGHT?!

    “I think he really loved you, but kept the room in case you might kick him out like when you two went to LA…”

    I am so deeply in denial about him being a cheater that I had a river in Egypt named after me.

  • It feels good to laugh! This “Christmas Card” is unbelievable – must be true, because you can’t make this shit up. I’m going to use that mantra this week: Not my monkey, not my circus…. These columns always help me to get better and better perspective. Slowly but surely, I am digging myself out of that insanity he is still living in. Good riddance – to the cheater and his monkeys.

    • Mark will need one someday when his shit gets backed up, because even Heidi will tired of wiping his ass and he won’t manage to figure out how to do it himself.

  • Well-I think Heidi should be thanking Cheater Defeater!

    She kicked her loser boyfriend out and Heidi finally has the child she’s always wanted!!

    Maybe even the child that the ex-boyfriend AND the ex-husband weren’t able to give her!

    And if Heidi’s ex’s aren’t doing well financially-why hasn’t HEIDI taken ALL of them in????

  • I would be so tempted to copy and paste the initial letter and the UBT translation and send it as this year’s holiday card.

  • As a UK chump, I find all this bewildering. Different states have different laws; to me it’s like going to Staffordshire and finding the divorce laws are different from Devonshire. ????????

  • Mark is “fine” the way COVID is “fine“: a virus is fine anytime it finds a new host. And chumps who learn their lessons at CL, and who do the tough work of sorting out why they accepted a crap partner, are immunized against further infection. #IMarriedAVirus

  • I have to say this makes me feel a little chagrined. I supported my ex for several years before the day. One of the things he said to me as I made him feel like a man child because I paid for everything. And yes I did make a lot more money than he ever could. So he just gave up. He is now working and living with another woman. Somehow she got him to work maybe because she didn’t have enough money to support him. But I wish I had Not put up with his BS and forced him to get out or work. That just wasn’t what I was made of. Oh well it’s done hugs.

  • Brilliant once again. I continue to be absolutely amazed at Chump Lady’s ability to interpret these letters so accurately – her UBT is honestly the most unique, honest, stream-line, cut to the chase, read between the lines, PERFECT interpretation of these OW’s and Cheaters and Enabler’s correspondence. I wish I had this talent. I would love (love) to send you the letter Sweater Man psychiatrist wrote about my Doctor hooker habit cheater concluding that he believes in spite of 28 years of deception and 30 plus prostitutes he can in fact (with Sweater Man’s help at $500 an hour) become the happily married man he really wants to be. (Oh….and this is the same psychiatrist that called him a Pervert). Can I send it?

  • She’s not the first and won’t be the last who believes she’s fixed a cheating loser. Her specialness requires teaching a grown ass man to take care of himself, car and pet. That’s pathetic.

    • Is he really hot looking, or what? What is the appeal of a ‘man’ like that?

      • That is what I was wondering. I mean my ex acted like an entitled fuckwit like the rest, but he was never lazy.

        I don’t get the appeal of a man or woman who can’t take care of themselves, barring health issues.

        • Me neither, but some people just love a project, or it makes them feel superior, leaning down from their lofty height of ‘specialness’ –

          Fuckwit said, “rat faced whore has had nothing all her life! I’m just showing her how the other side lives”!

          Made him feel like a knight in shining armour I suppose. ????

          • You know what they say. A woman who waits for her knight in shining armour will have to clean up after his horse !

  • After the 4th D-Day learning about my Cheater’s Hooker Habit – I (pure torture) looked at the web sites of many of the prostitutes he hired. (You can imagine what this did to the auto-advertising that began to pop up on my computer!) Nonetheless… reference to the pathetic man/child cheaters – to my horror as well as laughter – there are men who love to sit in high chairs, be spoon fed, suckle the boobie, get spanked, and have their diapers changed. Then……they change back into their business suits and are our bankers; lawyers; doctors; insurance salesmen; accountants; dentists…….CEO’s (lots of CEO’s). AHHH!!!!!! Where have all the good men gone………………..

      • I’ll never forget the look of horror,followed by peals of laughter, when I explained what a golden shower is to a colleague DECADES ago ! It was in France, birthplace of the Marquis de Sade.
        Are we circling the drain ?

    • Jo, please do NOT post identifying information on this site. I removed the letter and have to clean up your other posts mentioning this guy. Apologies if I was unclear. Note that all the letters I run here have screen names and identifying information is scrubbed out. Do NOT use this place as a grudge site — this goes for everyone. No outing affair partners, quack therapists. I could be sued.

      • I’m fine taking on public figures like Esther Perel (who unfortunately is some sort of quack D-list celebrity), but your regular quacks will have to remain in anonymity.

      • I’m so very sorry. So very sorry. His information was embossed on letterhead and it didn’t delete with select and delete in Word as the Cheater and Prostitutes name did. I’m so very sorry. Just another fk-up. I’m so very very sorry. From the bottom of my heart, I’m sorry. To avoid further pain for any new Chumps please note this as a reminder if it is not already on your web site. As an attorney, I doubt Sweater Man would have a leg to stand on in this instance as truth is always an affirmable defense against the claim of slander or defamation. Nonetheless – I’m so very, very sorry and will bow out gracefully. I do not use social media – I have never used facebook or Instagram and I apologize profusely – your site has helped so many people including me and I will be forever grateful.

  • lol, what a wreck. Ladies, please stay away from man-babies who refuse to each vegetables and can’t get their own cars fixed. Also, stay away from “friends” who are happy to house your abusers and then send you righteous cards about it. That card deserved a “Return to Sender” mark on it.

  • Crazy psychobable way to explain to someone that you fucked up bigtime shitting for many years on your long-suffering beautiful faithful wife, but hey, you really deserve her forgiveness and she should give you another chance. Guess he has to use all those “big words” to make it seem like he’s worth $500 an hour. What a convoluted way to convince fuckwit to shit all over you again. Disgusting.

  • Well that was quite a read Jo. I am so glad you’re hundreds of miles away from this freak. A druggie doctor. Scary stuff.
    “Misconduct” is grossly minimizing.
    This reminds of the excuse given for Tiger Woods’ cheating. He was quite the nerd at Stanford University and never dated. Boo hoo
    I had to flick off a nerdy bespectacled surgeon during a cycling trip who was harassing me. An alcoholic (aperitif, two bottles of wine and a nightcap every night) who had a longtime girlfriend left behind in central NJ.

    • I googled him after returning home. Somebody conducted professional misconduct to the tune of $750,000 in malpractice settlements. I always wondered, was he drunk during surgeries or did he sexually assault female patients ? It’s no wonder his doctor wife divorced him. Too bad I couldn’t find out his girlfriend’s name. I’m a tattletale with this kind of shit. I love watching Judge Judy on ????

      • His bulbous nose was covered with blackheads! Owns a Porsche and shares a vacation home in Park City with his two partners yet can’t go to an aesthetician or cosmetic dermatologist. His partners are each on their third wives. Comic fodder if it weren’t for all the people run over

  • The male therapist that led the group I attended thought it was appropriate to tell us about another’s sexual practices.
    He also leads a mens group. One man likes to wear a dog collar and be led around naked on all fours. He laughed maniacally,slapping his hand on his chair’s armrest.

  • Tracy, you’re smart… can’t you figure out a way to bottle your UBT? You’d make a fortune.

  • Hi! Cheater Defeater here! Thank you Chump Lady for sharing my greeting card from hell and thanks to Chump Nation for all of your wonderful comments! I am rocking my single life, more than three years fuckwit free!!! No drama, no triangulation, life is good. Someday Heidi will realize that she has been used and played all this time. Maybe she will be driving the karma bus when it smacks him down. Who knows? Who cares? Not me!!!! No contact is the true path to happiness. I also practice daily gratitude to Chump Lady for her enlightenment and levity. Her insight sets my soul free and makes my heart happy. Thank you Tracy!!!!

    • Awesome!!! Thank you so much for the update! I’m not in the least surprised that you’re rocking your life.

  • OW succeeded where both I and his mother before me failed.
    All his adult life he remained a baby about not liking vegetables and refused point blank to eat most of them.
    Then, past 50, she taught that old dog a new trick or two.
    He has been trained to like eating them and I think he can even cook them too.
    The things we do for love!

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