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Jeffrey Toobin’s Troublesome Dick

To anyone catching up, U.S. legal analyst and journalist Jeffrey Toobin was given indefinite leave after whipping his dick out on a Zoom call. Thus giving new meaning to “talking head.”

How this happened is a bit murky on the specifics. (I mean, other than unzipping his trousers and presenting his special friend to his coworkers.)

Asked Monday afternoon about reports that he had exposed himself, Mr. Toobin said in a statement: “I made an embarrassingly stupid mistake, believing I was off-camera. I apologize to my wife, family, friends and co-workers.”

“I thought I had muted the Zoom video,” he added. “I thought no one on the Zoom call could see me.”

Um, dude? Mute is for SOUND. And as you were having a dick selfie moment, literally filming your dick, you had to know the camera was on. Right?

Now apparently the story is, Toobin got a second call for phone sex, which interrupted the video call… and, I don’t know, this is all very complicated. Suffice it to say, my heart goes out to Toobin’s coworkers and his long-suffering wife.

Must we think about Jeffrey Toobin’s dick this morning, Tracy? I’m eating breakfast.

I’m sorry, CN. We must.

Wandering dicks and the mischief they get into are a speciality here, and merit discussion. I mean, poor man, this is the stuff of nightmares! You know that anxiety dream where you have a math class you didn’t study for and you’re roaming the hallway without your pants? Jeffrey is living that!

Okay, but he actually manufactured the whole situation for his personal gratification.

Yes, but who among us hasn’t gotten bored on a Zoom call? They’re stultifying. And nothing jazzes a party up faster than exposing one’s genitals.

Stop the wank shame, people! Mr. Perky needs air. Time.

Enough, Tracy. Enough. I am putting down my breakfast sausage. You’ve ruined it.

For about the first 5 minutes of this scandal (which we’ll all forget tomorrow. Have you met our news cycle?), I felt sorry for Jeffrey Toobin. I enjoy his legal analyses and writing in the New Yorker. But then, I googled. And the full saga of Jeffrey Toobin and his wandering dick came to light.

I lost my sorry.

Like, did you know he had a 10-year affair with his co-worker’s daughter, Casey Greenfield, knocked her up, reportedly told her to get an abortion, and then refused to acknowledge paternity or pay support, until he was forced in court?

Oh, and then after he was found to be the father, has visitations with this poor child every other weekend at his home with his wife and children?

Jeffrey Toobin’s wife — PUT DOWN THE SHIT SANDWICH.

OMG, the epic triangulation, the pick-me dances, the anguish over Jeffrey Toobin’s wandering dick.

I’ve read a lot of wandering dick stories (the blog flipped 33 million on Sunday, btw) and my cynical guess on what happened is this:

The guy enjoys his secrets. The power of people thinking he’s doing one thing (being faithful to his wife, paying attention in a work meeting) and doing another (fucking around, fucking around). It’s duper’s delight. His dick is THAT powerful.

Well, it is… but probably not in the way he imagined right now.

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  • I was so dangerously naive about all this stuff. Hearing all of these stories now makes me believe what I never wanted to about Ex-wife. Those guy feelings were probably all correct. I feel bad for this guys family and every other family wrapped up in the drama of infidelity.

    • Yep, and her humiliation is in front of the world.

      But, really most of us face public humiliation. In most cases our “world” finds out about it, I know mine was out in front of everyone as he was a police officer, and he was also involved in local politics. I am sure my world got a lot of laughs out of his antics. And some likely even got a kick out of my “stupidity”.

      Because after all only someone really stupid could overlook, or not see what he was doing, they say to themselves; because otherwise it could be happening to them and they wouldn’t know it.

      • Susie my XWife was in law enforcement also. Some of the best people I know and am still close with are in that community. Sadly, some of the worst entitled cheaters come from the same community.

        • Yep, depending on the stats you find, anywhere from 85 to 90 percent of POs commit adultery at different levels. It is awful. I can name of ten marriages from the same department that mine was on, just from memory. If I though harder likely twice that many, that I knew of. Most of the marriages ended a handful didn’t.

          In my case the other Captain who was committing adultery at the same time my ex was (they were buds) his marriage survived, mine didn’t. Are they happy, I don’t know. I am years/miles away from it all. Stats say they likely aren’t, but I do believe some will survive with happiness. Just no many.

          I believe most will have one happy partner, who will likely be the cheater, and the betrayed spouse (usually a wife) will spend the rest of her years pick me dancing, and eating shit sandwiches. (nod to CL) Maybe for them the pay off is worth it. I don’t know.

          In my case I have more peace and money than I ever would have had my marriage survived. But, of course I had no way of knowing that at the time. Luckily for me the break was so horrendous and initially I was given no choice. I likely would have initially pick me danced my ass of in fear.

          By the time I came out of shock, I was past that. When he tried to circle back, it was a hard no. Not that I think he really wanted the marriage back, he just needed to try to destabilize me to feed his control issues.

          To be perfectly honest, I have no doubt he was surprised at how quickly he lost control of me, I don’t think he saw that coming.

          God was watching over me (or nature if you prefer) For me it was God.

          • Omg. Such a parallel story but the genders are reversed. I feel like I could have written the exact same thing you just did but from a male chumps perspective. I was so disoriented by the end I was a f’ing mess and could barely function. That’s when the discard happened. This was someone who had sex with me the day before and said I was her best friend and the next morning said she never loved me and she definitely married the wrong person and I was too controlling. Wow. Flashbacks. I believe it was God who got me out even though it’s still hard 2.5 years later. God bless you.

            • Yep, might as well tell the whole story. Same here it was a week before Dday, (which was 25 Dec) and he was all frisky in the living room. Even talking about our recent purchase of a river front property in terms of sharing it with any future grandchildren (our son has recently gotten married). By 02 Jan, he was moving his crap out of the house. Though, he still wouldn’t tell me who it was. Schmoopie had crossed my mind, because he worked with her (her being his direct report) but I said nah, couldn’t be her. She isn’t really that attractive, physically or personality wise.

              Yep, it was her.

              I knew something was going on though, as he had been treating me progressively worse for the last year. When I questioned it, it was of course “work stress”. I bought it.

              When it got out, he along with the other captain got busted. The mayor put it out in the paper as “organizational changes” but, everyone knew what it was. He was moved from the office next to the mayors office back to the street.

              The city counsel wanted him fired, because just a couple weeks before he was outed, he had petitioned the city counsel for a raise for schmoopie, which they granted. One of the city councilmen and his wife came to visit me. We had been friends with them. He swore the CC didn’t know, and honestly I believe him. I think had they known, there is no way they would have allowed the increase, or even let him petition for it.

              She got moved to a dispatch job, and screwed that up; she in short order was let go, she somehow got on disability before long, so I am sure the mayor helped her do that. Likely trying to prevent a lawsuit.

              The other captain (his buddy) got busted, and went home to his wife.

              Then a couple years or so later, the mayor married the police woman the other captain was screwing. That place was a nasty cesspool.

              Sadly these stories play out all over the place. Police Departments, Fire Departments, DoD, Military on and on.

              I worked for DoD for 29 years and saw so many marriages crash and burn over adultery. I was working for DoD when my ex blew up our marriage.

              He wrote a letter of apology about six month after we were legally separated, meant nothing to me. Still doesn’t. I never responded.

              • I’m sorry. I feel like you could be the other end of my story, the wife of the cheater Captain and the “subordinate”(you aren’t but very similar). That was just one, the latest one was even more prominent and holds a higher position. I could never compete and damn near drank myself to death to cope. I’ve lost hope in humanity.

          • I’ve sometimes wondered if someone was watching over me, too.

            I was in his flat, and he was asleep. Suddenly a really clear voice in, my head said look in his phone. It was password protected, and I didn’t know the password, but the voice repeated it, and I found the texts boasting about fucking his rat faced whore.

            God? My guardian angel? My dead grandma? Or maybe just my subconscious. Thank God anyway. ????????

            • I had a “voice” too. The voice kept saying, “go look for it”. I thought I was hallucinating from the sleeplessness. After the voice kept repeating, I went looking and found a big bag of used sex toys in my garage. I have no idea what the voice was, but it was the thing that revealed the years of cheating. I confronted my husband and he told me everything because I’d found the bag. It was weird.

              • It is strange, but I do believe in Angels Unaware; so… To me these things can be real.

                I certainly won’t ignore any thing like that.

              • I had a ‘voice’ speak to me too. We had just got home from watching a Nascar race at a bar and I went to the kitchen to check on dinner in the crock pot and he made a beeline to the office and computer. I had just lifted the lid on the pot and a voice in my head, clear as day, said ‘Go see what he is doing’ I had no clue until that very minute that he was having an affair. I snuck up on him and caught him typing an email to schmoopie about how he couldn’t wait to meet up with her the next day. End of (my) Story.

              • That is almost EXACTLY my story.

                The “go home right now. Look for it.”

                Found the sex toys, condoms and other confirmation.

                Do you know how I found it?

                I stood in my basement and I thought “where would I hide something if I thought my wife was lazy and stupid?”

                I pulled out the freezer, and there it was.

            • I am glad it was revealed to both of us in time.

              I get selfish sometimes and wish it could have been revealed a couple years earlier (I was 40) but then I think of the things and people I might have not know, had it been earlier. There is a reason we don’t get do overs, but dang sometimes…

              I have spent time (previously) thinking of the young sweet guy I had dated for a while before I met FW, I broke it off when he called again to be with the FW. It was mainly because of timing, still you wonder. The other guy had joined the Navy and by the time he called again, I was involved with the FW.

              Then I think, heck that guy could have been worse, though it is hard to imagine. I hope he had/has a good.

              I only know one thing for sure. I loved my ex, and treated him well. My own son told his dad not to even start to complain about me, as he lived in our house for 18 years and knows how well I treated him.

              I treat my now H very well, because I love him and he deserves it. Difference is, he also treats me well.

            • BBM

              Sorry for your pain. I don’t know how far out you are, but time does help a lot. We are forever changed though, no getting around that.

          • @Susie Lee …. sad ditto. I remember hearing about the 80-90% of PO cheaters. I believed mine was different (it wasn’t) the control, the image management played a big part. Recently one of his old buddies (captain) was arrested by his own “VICE” for a prostitution ring. Pity his wife and family for sure! NOT him.

            These people think they are better than everyone else and can’t break the law if the ARE the law. And as mine told me at the end of our 32 yr sham, he said he had ALOT of opportunity! Im glad I removed that from my life.

            Lubin’ Toobin on the other hand will not feel shame for long Im sure. His family will and IMO it just shows how the penis activities ALWAYS come first. Sorry for all his co-workers who can’t unsee his indecent exposure, and apparently SOUND too! blah

      • HIS humiliation! She has done nothing to feel ashamed of, except put up with this prick.

    • Absolutely I’m going through this bs now, 3 1/2 years of lies, cheating, manipulation, wandering dick in my “FAMILY” home by a Narcissist. I finalized the divorce this past February this guy is “FILTH” my family and his is still reeling and the useless Canadian judicial system doesn’t nothing!????????????

  • The hurtful part is that society still will overlook and excuse this dysfunction.

    • They already have. What he did with/to his co-worker’s daughter made not one iota of difference to his career. His character was apparently seen as unrelated to his reporting. This is a long standing practice in relation to men and their sexual transgressions. I remember back in the late 1970s/early 80s when I was getting a master’s degree in literature and contemplating writing a thesis on the British poet Tennyson. I found out he used to take young women on unaccompanied walks around his estate on the Isle of Wight, and at some point in the walk he would stop, point at his boot, and tell the young woman that his bootlace was untied. He did this because he liked to see young women kneel at his feet. Although there was no sex involved, this angered me, a young woman trying to find her way in a man’s world, and at that point I decided I could not write on such a person. My thesis advisor told me he wished I could “resist my rush to judgment.”

      • !!!!

        Never knew that about Tennyson.

        But it reminds me of ex fucktard asking me to untie the laces of his work boots before Dday, but after I’d found out about all the gifts and attention he was giving the rat faced whore. Fucker. ????????????

      • The only other thing would be to look for signs of this perversion in his poetry or other written work.

        • Oh, his misogyny is all over his poetry. “Idylls of the King” “The Princess.” I wasn’t at a point in my own self-confidence and it wasn’t an era when I could have taken on a figure as large as Tennyson, and by the time in my academic career I could have, I had no desire to.

      • “Kneeling at his feet”. I found this blog at the beginning of 2016. Read through all the archives dating back to its inception and I read all the comments. A common demand of male cheaters is their wives/girlfriends cut their toenails. Disgusting.

        • No shit?! Wooooow.

          Thinking back to all the times my Mom did that for my Dad. Their relationship started as an affair, he was married. ????

        • Omg, I totally cut my ex’s toe nails. How utterly bizarre that I didn’t find this weird at the time (shudder).

        • Oh sweet hell, I cut those nasty claws and massaged his even nastier feet, and powdered his toes. He bragged about it publicly because his soldiers teased me about it. FML I was a super chump!

          I want old Jeffrey Toogross to feel shame. I doubt he is capable of normal human emotion. I hate him. He sucks.

      • This kind of thing pisses me off. This is the reason I hate Stanley Kubrick.

        The man was a raging narcissist, self-aggrandizing, and utterly abusive to his actors. Not just Shelly Duvall. His treatment of her on the set of The Shining has been brushed off for the sake of his “art.” Personally, I don’t like his movies anyway. I find them to be pretentious, slow, and incredibly boring to the point that I have TRIED five separate times to watch them, and found myself falling asleep from boredom each time.

        But all I ever hear is “Well he wanted to get the most realistic performance from her.” I don’t fucking care, it is not necessary to treat her like that. He screamed at her so much, she was in such fear of him that her HAIR STARTED FALLING OUT. That’s NOT acceptable. I also hear “Well she said in an interview later she respected him.” Abuse victims are often too terrified of their abusers to say anything bad about them, especially when that abuser holds the ability to destroy their career and has a lot of public prestige and power. He ruined her career anyway by damaging her so much mentally and emotionally, she couldn’t work again.

        He was also cruel to Malcom McDowell on the set of Clockwork Orange. McDowell almost went blind because of the contraption scratching his corneas during the Ludoviko scenes. He also suffered broken ribs from another scene when Kubrick instructed another actor to kick him in the ribs for real, instead of staged. Not to mention McDowell is terrified of snakes, and Kubrick decided that Alex was going to have a pet snake, even though that wasn’t in the original script, nor is it in the book.

        And countless other times of him demanding absolute perfection of everyone. He holds the record for most takes of a scene in film history. 128 takes of just a man turning a damn doorknob.

        But oh, HIS ARRRRRRRT.

        Fuck his art. He’s was a dick.

        • Reportedly, Kubrick made Tom Cruise do 95 takes of a scene of walking through a door during the shooting of Eyes Wide Shut too. So he is abusive to both genders. True narcissist…

      • Haha! My son is an English major in college, and he has such disdain for Alfred Lord Tennyson. When my son talks about this poet, he puffs out his chest and says “Aaaalfred Lord Tennyson” in this exaggerated Victorian British accent. It’s hilarious, and I ask him to do it often. I’m not sure if my kid, ( who has a deep respect for women, a belief in affirmative consent, and no tolerance for sexual exploitation) knows about this curious fact. I am going to talk to him about this, if only for an opportunity to have him do “the voice”.

    • Society is not a friend of anyone who is a chump. That is why so many of us feel shame when confronted with a cheating spouse and subsequent divorce.
      People like Jeffrey Toobins are actually doing their wife and family a favor by exposing their cheating and selfish self. Not everyone is that lucky. Most of us have to live with disbelief (he was always such a nice community member) and the accusations (she must not have put it out enough, no wonder he strayed… she must be a bitch behind closed doors). It takes some real strength for chumps to actual not only divorce the cheating asshole that you were married to, but also from the shame that comes with it.

      • I’m sorry you feel shame, you have *no* reason to. ????

        Have to say though, I felt no shame whatsoever, it was his, not mine. I felt indescribable pain and horror, though, and then that morphed into the most unbelievable rage and fury I’ve ever felt.

        I told everyone I knew, and I never once got the reactions you describe, I’m so sorry you did.

      • So true.

        I have always said that I was so lucky, yes it was horrifyingly painful, and it took a while to recover; but dang I was blessed. My life and his in subsequent years has born that out.

        I had a relapse due to his treatment of our son, which led me to curiosity of narcissist’s that I was searching for, and it let me to here.

        Now I just hope to help give others hope that they will be stronger and better in their new lives. They have the power to do that.

      • I was ashamed too. I felt embarrassed. My ex was loved by everybody. They all thought he was wonderful and I was told many, many times, “You’re so lucky to have such a wonderful husband!” I’m now reading the book “The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist” and I’m beginning to understand why my ex didn’t display at least 5 of the classic signs of a ‘Narcissist’ according to the DSM-IV. From the very beginning of my relationship with him, he made a point of public display of his sexual interest in me. And yet, when we were not anywhere that others could see, he was only interested in sex when ‘he’ wanted it. There were so many, many signs now that I look back, but I was made to doubt myself over and over again. I was married 30 years to a man that everyone thought was ‘wonderful’ but I constantly struggled to make him happy. Therefore, when I finally divorced him, I was ashamed because now I’d be thought that the problem had to be me, I mean…, Really! ‘He was wonderful!’ Years later I know that I have nothing for which to be ashamed of. He really has something wrong with him and I’m glad he’s not my problem. The skank truly deserves what she coveted for the last 15 years of my marriage.

        • @Amazon Chump-I’ll never get over how no matter what situation a chump is in there is always someone on here that has almost the same exact thing that happened to them. I also married Mr. Nice, and ended up here and read that same book. I still have a lot of shame because I’m not on my feet yet, but it really helps to come here and see that I’m not the only one who married Mr. Nice Guy and was gobsmacked and felt responsible somehow for Mr. SO Very Nice Guy’s cheating. Still struggling with it.

          • Best. Book. Ever.

            Ordered my own copy and one for my ex-sister-in-law (who was cheated on by my cheating ex’s brother). The CPAN makes like the nicest person and consider themselves the victim. By behind the curtain, all contempt and gaslighting.

          • Same here Thursdays child. I’m so sick of hearing how wonderful and nice he is. Well they didn’t het yelled at for putting the towels in the washer wrong, or loading the dishwasher wrong. They didn’t bend over backward managing his house for free, just to get used as a doormat. And they didn’t get the devaluation and total blindsided betrayal after d-day exactly one year ago! They didn’t get mind fucked for 9 months after where he was hot and cold. They didn’t get screamed at and berated for an hour and a half when I had had enough mindfucking, that I posted who his office affair partner was by name and department on his fabook wall one night. They both had it coming.!Im so around of myself!:) I am going through major major health issues and panic attacks. I have been waiting 7 year on hemodialysis for a kidney transplant! Yes A kidney transplant. He has no idea what its like, even though he had watched me dialyze. He helped himself to the same office whore I specifically had red flags for. She knew all about me too! Yet never once took 1 minute to warm me that my boyfriend is chasing her and had just bought her a flight ticket to France for a nice vacation! I cant travel for obvious reasons. It was the biggest fuck you to me. When I would ask him whats Hong? He would always smile and act like everything’s fine. Ya fuck them both. Stupid move to fuck your co worker. $ years wasted and so much of my time and love invested. He kept the cats too! I just want my babies back. He did it to hurt me. And he kept my patio garden. He cant even grow wheatgrass!:/ Its his fault for lying to me for so long. He told me he was unhappy for 10 months! Then break up with me, dumbs. Yes it will suck but the betrayal lying and cheating is so much worse. I pray Karma teaches him how painful his choices were. I really loved him but he had no character. None. Ill never fully heal either… which is another form of abuse, because he never admitted all of his dirty secrets. He wants to move on and sweep everything under the rug. It must be nice to have that choice after you completely gut and kneecap your long term partner! Then sweep it under the rug. Which my therapist said is another form of abuse because he is not allowing me to heal. Like everything, I have had to do everything myself. I am happy being safe and alone and I am busy taking care of just me. It will be a while before I can trust again.

        • Thank you. It helps so much to o hear so many understanding people. Covert narcissism is pretty awful. I myself had a husband who only showed affection for others to see. Not for me.

          Thank you again got your replies

          • My god they are all the same. Mine was “nice” to everyone. He was actually pretty nice to me too…until he wasn’t. The mask came off and I now get the full force of his abuse. He was even nice to me on DDay, but he kind of went into this weird fog where he started confessing all the years of cheating and he was quite kind and gentle about it. It was like he felt great getting it off his chest and he was finally letting me see under the hood and it explained why I felt so off kilter (due to all the lies and gaslighting). Then the days that followed, I fell into complete depression and despair, vomiting and curled in a ball on the floor, crying continuously. It was during those days that he went from nice to hideously mean. He was saying things like, “get up off the floor! Didn’t you know our marriage was over a long time ago?” Really cold and cruel. He packed up some of his thing and left – just abandoned me and he’s been cold and horrible to me since then. Everyone sees him around town, smiling his big, fake grin, happy as a clam. My friends that know are horrified when they see him and wonder how on earth he could be happy. It’s so fucked up and downright scary.

            • Covert Narcs are horrifying.

              Mine was the same. Kind and caring and everyone loved him. He showered me with love for 15 years.

              Except he also threw out my favourite things (and keys) regularly (and then helped me look for it). He phoned me several times a day and always made me call when I came home so that he could open the gate. Turns out that it was his way of knowing my whereabouts so he could have a double life.

              He went from loving to mask off the same day and then tortured me with planted evidence of the multiple teenagers (and others) he was love bombing and fucking. The newly purchased wedding ring. Pedicure/manicure invoices. Poems about his misery. A photographic collection of suicide victims. He especially liked the “jumpers”.

              The death threat was so subtle, I initially missed it…until I couldn’t. Epenephrine is naturally found in the body. If he just found the correct injection site the nobody would know what killed me.

              12 years out and I have a diagnosis of delayed onset PTSD.

              My trauma counceller after reading my diary (which she asked me to write) doesn’t call him a vulnerable narc.

              Her label is Psychopath.

    • I was talking to my therapist about how prominent celebrity religious speakers like Nouman Ali Khan went scott free over his actions, very similar to the stuff my ex did. I feel for his chumpy ex-wife and kids. A whole community can be fooled. Guess who still listens to his lectures….

  • Jeffrey Toobin is sitting in his doctor’s office. The doctor walks in and says, “I have some bad news, Mr. Toobin: You’re going to have to stop masturbating.”
    Toobin replies, “I don’t understand, doc. Why?”
    “Because,” the doctor says, “I’m trying to examine you.”

  • I liked and admired the man’s mind; last night’s new was creepy.
    But now reading about his past affair and child?
    Another fucking moron who has no business offering opinions about how others conduct themselves!
    Why didn’t I know about his history? Was it news that I missed or buried by the news?
    Many feel that ones personal life shouldn’t be part of their professional life. I’m one of those that disagrees. If you’re a creep (putting it mildly in this case) in your personal life, don’t make a living giving opinion about others.

    • Totally agree, Rebecca! It is too bad so many still do not comprehend that what you do in your private life is who you really are! If you can not be trusted in your private life, you can not be trusted in your professional life. Or any area of life.

      Ross Perot was one who fully understood this. If you were a cheater, you could not work in his companies. He said: “If a man’s wife can not trust him, I can not trust him”

      ForgeOn, ChumpNation….ForgeOn!

      • Oh wow! this is a very true statement. You want to know someones true character look at his wife/husband. Its fool proof!

        • And character and reputation do matter in the legal profession. Jeffrey is a Harvard law grad and his former affair partner is a Yale law grad. So while they bought Ivy League degrees, money can’t buy you character.

    • It all came out at the time. He’s a known creep but liberal outlets have a history (Matt Lauer, Chris Matthews, Charlie Rose and many others) of looking the other way.

      The only way this changes is if we demand change.

      • Liberal media outlets. Ever heard of Roger Ailes? #metoo movement. Try all media outlets ran by the dick code. I won’t tell where you put yours if you don’t tell where I put mine.
        Cheaters happen equally across genders but the ability to cover it up on a grand scale, is still a man’s game.

      • Not just liberal outlets (Roger Ailes, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Donald Trump).

        People seem to excuse the behavior if the person has power or use. (rating draws etc.)

        Agreed. The narrative needs to change.

      • LIBERAL outlets look the other way?!

        Pussy grabbing and bragging about it predator House…serial cheater….five kids with three wives…..WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT.

        I have no party affiliation or label BTW.

      • This isn’t a liberal problem or a conservative problem, it’s a CHARACTER problem.

        • Agree agree agree.

          Sweet smoking Jesus.

          Creeps and hypocrites and character defects are not the exclusive territory of any sect or denomination or political affiliation.

          I think it’s best to sling the mud at the individuals who earned it.

        • Amen, sister. And those character issues and the resulting bad behavior cut across politics, media, the law, religion, academia, the military, etc.

        • Bingo. There are bad people on both sides of the aisle. And both sides have often been happy to look the other way.

      • This has to do with swelled heads(Nomar, you can use that) of men who get just a little power and they immediate unzip their pants. I don’t know care what excuses social scientists make. The definitions of maturity is postponing pleasure. We are being ruled by, reported to, opinion given by, children. We get who we vote for. We get what we pay for. I am so disappointed by everyone in Washington. I want a new everything. Right now it’s the same old same old.

        • Read an article today. The lady was married to a wealthy man and spoke of the experience other wives of these men had. Blah blah.
          But she used a term ‘situational narcissism’.
          What does CN think?
          I’m pretty black and white… Excuses and explanations not withstanding I believe that these persons just always had it in them and just not the opportunity.

          • What was the context of the term “situational narcissism”? What I would imagine would be someone who could pretend to be a philanthropist and compassionate person but in private behaves narcissistically.

            My own thought is that there are millions of people who create an attractive social persona for the outside world but in the private life are selfish, abusive, manipulative people who engage in all sorts of disgusting behavior and “duper’s delight.” So I don’t see that as “situational.” A person can be a great supporter of charity and still a monster in how they treat other real humans in their life.

            • If someone is a narcissist who is a compassionate philanthropist in public, then they are still a narcissist. The public persona is just for image management and ego kibbles, and doesn’t represent actual kindness and generosity in the person’s character. It could also be self-deceit: “I am a good person because I give money to charity. It doesn’t matter that I’m also a cheater.”

              My ex was fond of big public gestures of generosity, loaning money to friends, and telling people he was doing whatever event for whatever charity. Behind the scenes, he did the public gestures for the adulation, wanted his friends to feel indebted to him, and kept the charity money for himself by claiming the event didn’t make a profit.

              I fell for the public gestures, and considered them one of the reasons I loved him. In hindsight, don’t actually know if he loaned money to any of our friends or if he was just lying so I wouldn’t realize money was missing. And I didn’t know how to tell anyone about his fake charitable events without seeming like the bitter ex.

              • I believe we don’t get to compartmentalize our character. You are either a person of integrity or you aren’t. If you need to “ blow off steam” take a kickboxing class. If you lie to your wife but are honest to your coworkers you are still a liar. If you get off “accidentally”showing your Dick to your coworkers because you got an extra thrill jerking off while in a Zoom meeting …….you’re a sleazeball.

              • Situational narcissism seems to me to be pretty much ‘virtue signaling’ in practice. Can apply to Jesus-cheaters, philanthropists, “non profit” CEOs and general DoGooder types as well. Many of these types are doing it for the kibbles and the awards. Passive Aggressive Narcs are universally expert image managers.

    • Me too, Rebecca. I didn’t know about Toobin and if I had, I would have turned off CNN. I no longer read David Brooks’ columns in The NY Times and when I see him on PBS I change the channel, checking back to see when he’s gone and I can resume watching. One of my favorite movies was Tootsie but hearing about Dustin Hoffman changed that.

      I won’t put any of my time or energy into this type of person. Character counts.

      • Agreed about David Brooks. I just skip over him. When he used his column to publicly pressure his wife during their divorce, that was it for me.

            • Which is why she made him go kosher. And he whined about the sorrow and the suffering of it in his “Climbing the Mountain” (or whatever) book… as he moved on with a much younger assistant.

              Whatever you do, chumps, don’t serve matzo ball soup, as delicious as it is. Matzo causes discard.

  • What blows my mind is the explanation he offers. “I didn’t know anyone could see “ is pretty much the exhibitionistic narc’s version of “it just HAPPENED!”
    And everyone defending that excuse is telling on themselves. Ick.

    • Katiedidn’t,

      I had the same reaction. That he thought it would be ok on a zoom call as long as he couldn’t be seen is total skeeve. And you’re right that it’s minimization–“What’s the big deal?”

      I truly ache for his wife and kids.

    • I call bullshit on it. You don’t “mute” visuals, you mute audio, as CL said. And also, even if he really did think the video was cut, what the fuck would he have been doing that would make any sense? Like who the hell just takes out their dick when they turn off their camera during a zoom call? Does he turn off his camera and jerk off during meetings? I don’t even buy the “he turned it off because he got a phone sex call” excuse. Why would he arrange such a thing when he knew he would have a professional meeting at the same time?

      There’s no accident here. There’s pretty much nothing that he could say to make this not incredibly skeevy.

  • “I’ve read a lot of wandering dick stories (the blog flipped 33 million on Sunday, btw)”

    What’s the Wandering Dick to Meandering Muffin ratio on this blog?

    My STBXW meandered…..seems like there are more wanderer stories in the blog

    • On this blog? Readership, according to Google analytics is pretty evenly divided between men and women (50/50 60/40 depending on the month.) But women, especially older women, are more inclined to comment. The vast majority of readers lurk.

      So if about 15 percent of the comments are straight men, that’s going to be your muffin ratio there. But also lesbian women cheat and get chumped, so round up.

      • Wow this has actually blown my mind CL

        I am on a few infidelity sites and 99% of them are women .
        I know stats must mean there are cheating women out there and women with children cheating but because what you read is mainly women you would never think it’s almost equal .

        Thank you CL this has really helped me today

        • The thing that put it in perspective for me, was the realization that for every cheating man, there is a cheating or willing accomplice woman. I did an unofficial survey once and about 90% of cheating husbands cheated with a married woman– so that works vice-versa, the men just don’t join the conversation as often

          • Yes, but one cheater can be a multiple offender. If that doesn’t split evenly by gender then that will skew the numbers.

            If the typical male cheater has more affairs that the typical female cheater, for instance, you’d need a larger supply of cheating wives to service all the cheating husbands. I don’t have any idea if that’s the case (I was woefully naive about this entire world before it happened to me) or even if it goes the other way.

            • A lot of men pay for sexual services where I think this is a lot more rare with a female cheater .

              I’ve no doubt there are females paying for male escorts etc but I think it’s more common with a male cheater

            • Involuntary Georgian– Something rings very true in your theory. Where are male serial cheaters finding all those mostly hitched APs? Plus “mate poachers”– even single ones– tend to statistically carry dark triad personality traits and show obvious “infidelity tolerance” very similar to adulterers. And studies on “poached” relationships show vastly more cheating.

              I was naive about this world too. I’ve been initiated.

              • Over it– Were they all married? Are they all pass-arounds or is there some vast culture of she-cheaters? Are they all sugaring? Does the lousy economy increase the trend?

                So many question. I should really go back to school and become some kind of social scientist but I’m afraid no one would fund the studies I’d want to do. We aren’t allowed to question sidechicking since, without ’em, what would all the FWs do?

          • My comment about cheaters is that the women the men cheat with are cheaters too.. whether they are married or not. It shows a character flaw for a woman to screw another woman’s husband or exclusive partner. Or another woman’s wife or exclusive partner.

            • Yep, in fact the definition of adultery is:

              Definition of adultery
              : voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than that person’s current spouse or partner
              also : an act of adultery

              As long as one of the partners is married; both are committing adultery.

            • Both are not always committing adultery: not if the AP doesn’t know she’s an AP, which was true of the women who dated my then-husband. He lied to them, told them he was divorced.

              He’s a highly skilled liar.

              He told me lies throughout our marriage, about all sorts of things (like a supposedly heroic military career, and the whopper about not having any children – he had one but abandoned him). Super liar, super asshole!

              • It is rare that they don’t know, or don’t soon find out.

                But, technically they are committing adultery, though they may not know it.

                It is like buying stolen property, it is illegal whether you know it is stolen or not. No one is refunded money for buying stolen property, because they didn’t know it was stolen. They likely won’t get fined or jailed, if they can convince the judge they didn’t know it was stolen, but they are still breaking the law.

                If one is buying from a reputable/licensed source then they will be protected if the source is illegally purchasing stolen property. But they are still buying stolen property.

                But, yes some OPs don’t know, at least at first. I maintain that is the rare circumstance.

        • I’m shocked, too. Interesting stats.

          Thanks to societal stereotypes and my own thoughtlessness, I never knew there were so many chumped men. And apologies to the LGBTQ community. I never gave it a second’s thought.

          CL, congrats on 33 million! It’s both sad (SO many chumps) and amazing (CL has helped so many people).

          I feel fortunate to be a part of this community and proudly admit to fitting the profile of an older woman who comments!

        • I think a big part of it is that men are socialized to suffer in silence as not to show weakness. It’s especially shameful. Everyone pities the long-suffering wife but a lot of men get called things like “cuck” and it’s implied they couldn’t satisfy their woman. Which as we all know here is utter horseshit but sadly that’s the way things often go.

          • Very true. Historically, the cuckold has always been good for a laugh, too. I really don’t understand it. Are most people just shit bags? I really hope not. ????

        • I’m currently doing some research on the ethics of responses to infidelity, and there’s far more documentation of women’s responses than men’s. I had intended to employ feminist standpoint epistemology to discuss how the narrative of victims of adultery is minimized against that of perpetrators, but it seems there are traditional gender dynamics that minimize phenomena that mostly affect women, as well.

          • Not that adultery primarily affects women, but women being more willing to discuss it happening to them leads to it being perceived as gendered.

            • David– Good luck with the research. Your concepts sound really interesting.

              Even if there are roughly equivalent rates of cheating between genders, I have a feeling that warped cultural gender concepts still play a role, especially after reading accounts by male chumps of how their cheating spouses liked having the decent, egalitarian, emotionally supportive and open stable guy (“positive masculinity” model) at home but tend to cheat with “toxic masculinity” types.

              A study of female porn consumers found that women consume more violent content than men– material in which women are degraded. I don’t know if there’s a correlation between female cheaters and female porn use but I would not be surprised if there was a link.

              The tendency for female porn performers and phone sex operators to put on little girl traits or exaggerated femininity is obviously based on mostly male market demands. Though some sex trade consumers prefer the dominatrix type, the overwhelming trend suggests that male consumers of the sex trade quite often get off on retrograde traditional power discrepancies– the groveling, flattering, infantile, subordinate female, etc. There’s no question that male cheaters also more often go for camped-up faux femininity, whether this is a genuine preference or just a result of the automatic filter of what kind of women would even participate in that kind of betrayal (probably a bit of both). When I was watching American Murder, the documentary on the Chris Watts murder case, I wasn’t sure if this was the case with his paramour, Nichol Kessinger, since, if anything, she sounds pretty gruff and brash in police interviews and was “sporty.” But then I heard audio recordings of her widdle baby giggly-kibbles weirdo act in messages she left for the killer. It reminded me of the presto-chango vocals of the Love is Blind contestant Jessica Batten which fueled a million skits and Gifs.

              I studied voice as part of my communications studies and learned that those who over-masculinize or over-feminize (especially the breathy “sexy baby voice”) their voices tend A) to be pathological in some way; and B) will have nodes on their vocal cords by age 50 and will end up sounding gravelly (women) or piping and weak (men). So certain ultra-genderized vocal tics are not natural but a product of psychological factors.

              One study I’d love to see is something along the lines of “gender trait exaggeration” and adultery, including voice quality because vocal quality is tangible. I’m sure the results would be very interesting. In any case, similar to how random-type mass shooters (as opposed to political terrorists) tend to identify with an incoherent mishmash of exaggeratedly aggressive political ideologies (even when this runs against their ethnic or cultural identities– like a Jewish or African American fan of Hitler, etc.), I think there must be frequent elements of cartoonish cultural gender tropes in cheating, whether it’s the cheater themselves who shows exaggerated traits or this is what they seek in APs.

              • Look at all the women writing to Chris Watts. You can’t much for violent than systematically killing you family. It appears he has a fan club.

              • Letgo–

                There’s a clinical name for that: Hybristophilia.

                From Wikipedia:
                “Hybristophilia is a paraphilia in which sexual arousal, facilitation, and attainment of orgasm are responsive to and contingent upon being with a partner known to have committed an outrage, cheating, lying, known infidelities, or crime—such as rape or murder.”

                If it’s a spectrum disorder, side pieces are included.

      • I am proud that I am a faithful “dick” but it’s sad that it appears the dicks wander more than the muffins meander.

        Painful either way.

        Cheaters suck! (and I do trust that!)

      • Yup, and my fuckwit tried to use this “everyone’s doing it” as justification. “I don’t know why I did it, a lot of people cheat. Didn’t you tell me that guy you dated in your early 20s cheated on you too?”

        I hate them all.

        • My view is that society as a whole has normalized, or accepted, marital cheating. Cheaters are not branded with a scarlet letter. They are not ostracized by friends and family. They aren’t avoided or treated any differently. They aren’t whispered about or ignored when they enter a room. Cheaters are given a pass. I suppose it is easier for most people to believe that cheating is a cry for help from a plagued spouse than it is to believe that there are selfish cheaters everywhere who have no concern for the pain and destruction they leave behind. I am absolutely floored at the statistics that Chump Lady provided on readership. When, as a society, do we say ‘enough’?! When do we hold people accountable for their actions? When do we look at a friend who abruptly abandoned his wife of 25 years for his 29 year old coworker and say, “you know, he just doesn’t have the integrity that I desire in a friend,” and walk away. When do No Fault States turn to Fault States on divorce?
          Until there are repercussions for cheating and abusing, people will continue to walk away from spouses, leaving them devastated and financially worse off. We have greater legal and personal responsibility to most business partnerships than we do to spouses. At least in America.

          • I agree it has been normalized.

            The frustrating part is I think most (unless they are betrayed) do not know or can even imagine the horrible treatment that the betrayed has endured, before even discovering the cheating. Hostility, insults, devaluing, lying, gaslighting, so much pain, sometimes for years, but even if it is only for a short time it is awful.

            • I absolutely agree.

              My ex turned into a monster. But, I’m sure no one but me and my immediate family and friends know how hurtful he was (and still is) since he left.

              • Same for me, I never told anyone when it was going down. I was so ashamed and humiliated. It was long before internet and the ability to research easily. (wish I had CL)

                When he blew up his relationship with out son not long ago, it brought it back up to me, and I realized after doing some research that I had been holding in anger at myself for being so stupid and such a doormat.

                I am glad it bubbled up again, though I hate that it took my son being hurt to bring it up again. Now I know just how common a cheater he was. I never even told my family. I did recently tell it all to my brother and my best friend.

    • NC2U–

      “Meandering Muffin” — hilarious. So many possibilities…

      Vagrant Vajay

      Traipsing Twat

      Transient Cha-Cha

      Perigrinating Pooter

      Bimbling Bajingo

      Floating Foof

      Wayfaring Doo-dah

      Rootless Hoo-hah

      Nomadic Nethers

  • Oh, I’m so glad you’ve posted about this story.

    I had the same reaction. First I felt a sort of pity for him (which was probably fed a bit by my general enjoyment of his writing and on-air commentary). Then, after my own google search, I was appalled and felt so sorry for his wife and teenage kids.

    Not only did he have a 10-year affair with a much younger woman, but he urged her to get an abortion, and, when she declined, refused child support. It was also noted that he made sexual advances to other women and behaved in generally skeevy ways over the years. His wife suffered in silence, I guess.

    I would agree that he enjoys his secrets. At the same time, according to my brief google search, he could have settled the affair baby in a quiet way but instead went to court. Could it be that he wanted the publicity? Did he want people to know he and his dick get around, that he’s a playah? I don’t know.

    I studied pictures of him and his wife, and, although she’s smiling, she looks miserable. (Ok, this could be projection on my part.)

    The bottom line is that we need to send his wife a copy of LAC; GAL ASAP and invite her to CN!

    • Toobin’s wife met him at Harvard where she obtained her MBA. She’s formerly the chief marketing officer for AmEx. It’s baffling but makes the case for trauma bonds….. decades of sunk costs, a family, a whole world…. I totally get it. I am not in that world but on a different scale I’m a very successful professional. And yet when I found out, I gave XH 18 weeks of second chances. ????‍♀️ Hope she finally says GTFO.

    • [email protected] I think some men like the public attention. My fuckwit seems to relish the role of playah, bad boy. If he only understood that he is perceived by all but his current ??? (I have no words for her) as a skeevy joke.

  • I don’t believe in sex addiction and was busy agreeing with CL’s yesterday’s post on the topic when I heard about Toobin and all I could think was maybe sex addiction is real and hear is the proof. Who else would whip out their dick on a work zoom call and proceed to jerk off except a sex addict or a moron but those are not be mutually exclusive. Toobin just had to prove us non believers wrong- complete uncontrollable sexual urges. He needs treatment. SMH

    • I don’t think it’s that he can’t control his urges, I think he just feels entitled enough to allow his urges to take precedence.

      • Yes, and enjoyed the idea that he was still on the Zoom call (with screen blanked out) while masturbating to his phone sex caller.

      • Completely agree! (I hope my sarcasm came though in my post). Sex addiction is a pathetic blameshift for entitlement)

        • Hahaha, I don’t think I grasped the sarcasm the first time, but reading it again, I get it!! Sorry to misconstrue!

          • No apology necessary. I shouldn’t be sarcastic. I try not to because fuckwit was one of those, “I was just joking”, no, he wasn’t!

    • The stories of less famous people are coming out. This is not the first instance during the pandemic.

    • C.S. Lewis wrote about these questions in “Mere Christianity.” It’s been a long time since I’ve read that book, but this stuck with me: He was talking about various sins of self-indulgence and what we might call “gluttony.” One of his metaphors was standing in front of a table of (I think) donuts and then cramming them in our mouths, unable to stop. (You can see why a person who can eat a package of Oreos would recall that image…). I’ve carried that thought with me, as a person whose weight has been on a size 6 to size 12 yo yo for years. But apply that idea to sexuality. Most of us can satisfy ourselves sexually with someone we love and cherish. If we aren’t married, we may have a few sex partners on occasion. But imagine having a life so focused on sex that a faithful spouse isn’t enough–you need a buffet of choices from APs to sex workers to phone sex buddies to the folks unwittingly entertained on Zoom. Most of us would be fine with an occasional Krispy Kreme or one of the late lamented toasted coconut donuts from Dunkin’. We might have one or two, then eat one the next day for breakfast. We don’t need a conference table filled with fresh donuts, old donuts, moldy donuts, donuts found lying on the floor.

      • LAJ— I just threw up in my mouth a little so great illustration.

        C.S. Lewis has written many profound and intuitive things.

      • COMPLETELY off topic but…I loved Dunkin’s toasted coconut donuts and I have not been able to find one in the northeast for years! God, they were good!

  • Oh my gosh….. His poor wife and kids! Someone needs to send her a copy of your book ASAP. She needs to do a full panel screening, lawyer up and divorce his wondering dick ass. Run Wife Run!!!

  • If my ex reads this story, I would imagine he’ll respond in this way:

    1. “Casey, the AP, is hot.”
    2. “The wife is probably a bitch. Oh, and she may have cheated, too. Why does everyone think she’s so innocent?”
    3. “What’s wrong with pleasuring yourself on a zoom call? Mute and video are so difficult to figure out. I feel sorry for the guy.
    4. “This is nothing like my own infidelity. What I have his twu luv.”
    5. “I feel so sorry for this guy.”
    6. “I need more travel-sized lotions.”
    7. “This story has turned me on. When’s my next zoom meeting?”

  • “Jeffrey, KEEP YOUR TUBE IN!“

    Or maybe we start calling him Jeffrey Tube Out?

  • For those of you familiar with the New Yorker, I wonder what this sophisticated and liberal magazine will put on its cover next….. Tracy!!!!!!!! Submit a sketch! Please!!!
    “ talking head”. Brilliant.
    Confusing a sex call with a New Yorker call is so funny. They knew they were working with a sex pest and a “me too” violator and kept him for his prestige or not “ interested” in his “ personal life”. This is karma for all.

    Also Casey Greenfield’s Dad, Jeff, is equally prominent and a clever writer. Wonder what he thinks of this ?

    I foresee many executive phone calls to tech support today to explain that pesky mute button. LMAO

    • I think she is a narcissistic sociopath. She named the kid with Toobin after her ex boyfriend/law partner! Talk about incesty/triangulation.

      Also Harem much? What a freak, they both use the kid as a pawn and to steal power from each other. Poor, poor kid.

  • Holy shit!

    What is it with some men and their dangly bits? Dick pics, and now this. I mean, really, does *any* woman actually consider a penis, flaccid or otherwise, an attractive sight? (not talking about what it can do,????).

    Being a UK chump, I’ve never heard of this slime ball Toobin, what a vile pos, I’m sorry for his wife and children, and little Rory. Poor kid, a skank whore for a mother, and a malignant narcissist for a father. Ay di mi.

    As others have said, someone needs to send Mrs Toobin a copy of LACGAL. She needs to get her ducks in a row, and kick that shit bag *out*. ????????????

    • I just wonder why this seems to be a universally male problem, masturbating on the phone or on camera or under the desk or on Zoom calls or whatever. I mean do women do it too? I’ve never heard of it.

      • My trainer and I were talking about this during our early morning workout, and when I said I couldn’t imagine why someone would whip it out while Zoom is on, he said, “It’s guy thing.”

        At least a “some guys thing.”

    • Yeah, I never got that.

      Even back in the day before internet, when I still had hormones; women would talk about chip in dales and male dancers, and I never did get the draw of looking at random male bits.

    • I truly don’t understand dick pics–either why someone would photograph that and certainly why they would send it to other people.

    • I know someone whose gold-digging stepmother’s extramarital sexting crotch pix were found on the cloud shared with the kids. It was the stepkids and the cheater’s own niece– all of whom had been physically or psychologically abused by this woman– who took her down and expedited the ensuing divorce.

      • Ewwww!!!

        That is just so…. I have no words.

        So glad the vile bitch was taken down.

        • What emerged after this came out was even more shocking. Ms. Golddigger Dimply-Giggles ex-Felon should be studied for “image management” capacity. She really had everyone fooled, though I still can’t understand how the educated, competent adults in that family could have been so snowed that they didn’t believe and shield the kids the first time. That was unpardonable. But I was so in awe of that ninja takedown and how the kids from a blended family came together to support each other against an abuser. The half brother in the story is a force with real insight and principles. He graduated Cum Laude (Magna or Summa, I don’t remember) and is going into politics. He’s on the other side of the aisle from me but we can use honorable people on all sides.

  • Toobin is EXACTLY the kind of creep my ex wife would go for. It was as if she had special radar for them. Back when I was discovering all of the Creepy McCreepers she banged, I would often contemplate what it said about me — that maybe I was creepy in some way. But I’m the opposite of these guys and that’s exactly why she chose to MARRY me. She needed a chump at home for stability and appearance’s sake and she knew she could count on me to fill that role nicely.

    When I finally stumbled on her secret life of multiple affairs with creepsters, one of her typical cheater defenses was, “Everybody has affairs!” No, sugarbritches, “Everybody who’s a creep has an affair with you!”, and they’re a dime a dozen lot and you’re just one of the few idiots who acquiesces.

    My ex-wife is the sad opposite of a woman Jeffrey Toobin approached at a party and turned him down, as described in this article:

    My ex-wife would likely have melted for something creepy whispered in her ear by a strange creepster, especially if he had some regard as Toobin did. So sad. So glad that nightmare is behind me! Good riddance!

    • Good riddance, indeed!

      The everybody-does-it defense is so typical of cheaters.

      I recently met a man and mentioned that I’d just gotten a divorce because my ex cheated on me. His instant reply was, “Doesn’t everybody?” followed by, “Oh, you call him your ex? That just seems so erasing. I call mine my “former wife.”

      I’m still trying to get my eyes to roll back to where they belong.

    • GDD–

      Spouse material vs. side piece material. Though nothing is consoling about betrayal at first, in the end it’s a relief to know we’re the reverse of the McCreepsters in every meaningful way. The more you learn about the types who get involved with betrayal, the more you want to distance yourself.

  • Flashing is a fetish. Most people learn in early childhood there are many good reasons to keep their private parts private. I don’t know how you miss this message. Personally, I don’t want to see anyone else’s genitals when I am trying to eat, or am at a work conference. I don’t want people to have sex in a public restroom I need to use. Why do they think these parts are attractive? I think you can love someone, and have desire for them, but still not be attracted to certain visual images of them. I would not want to see any pictures of myself being intimate. I don’t even like normal pictures at family events like Christmas.

    There is a big difference between being naked for a purpose, like bathing, or having a medical exam, and exposing yourself. I used to get really annoyed when married to Cheater #2, because he would come into the bathroom while I was trying to get ready for work, and try to equate my getting out of the shower with an invitation to be fondled, or a chance to have an early morning quickie. He would “wave” to me with a body part, thinking that would cause me to lose my mind with desire. I have to say, these advances had the opposite effect on me. I wasn’t shocked. I had seen it before. I didn’t love “it”. I was in love with him, and “it” was a part of him. But I didn’t need to see ‘it” all the time to be reminded of him. I was originally attracted to him with all his clothes on, because he love bombed me and could be quite charming. With his clothes on he was like a present wrapped in nice wrapping paper. Once the paper was ripped off and wadded up on the floor, the “package” was not so attractive.

    If you have ever been “flashed” by a stranger, after you get over the fight or flight reaction, you wonder why the flasher thought you would want to see that? Really, it is not impressive. It is not sanitary. It needs a mask and social distancing. I see parts of both women and men in public places like the grocery store that are not as explicit, but that are definitely not enjoyable. Seriously people, put on the right sized clothing and pull up your pants. I don’t want to see your underwear either. It is called UNDERwear. Modesty is really attractive. No one needs to be forced to see their co-workers body parts. Work is supposed to happen at work. Sex and all its visuals should happen elsewhere. That is why there is a workplace, and a homeplace.

    I am not against nude models in art. However, most men I know don’t even vaguely resemble Michelangelo’s David. I don’t look like the size 0 fashion models either. Normal people need clothing. If you join a nudist colony, good for you. You have made a choice. Please don’t invite me to join. I am comfortable in my clothes.

    I do not want to think about a person I know in some professional capacity as a sexual being. They are entitled to be a sexual being in their private life, but my interest is in their thought, or talent, or professional usefulness. My first job, outside of the home environment, was as a waitress. I was a 16 year old girl in a uniform and sensible shoes. Even though I did not present myself as a sex siren, I endured many crude overtures from men old enough to know better about their availability and my potential usefulness. I just wanted to know their food order, and wanted them to eat and leave so I could serve the next customer. I lived on tips. I really was not interested in being a love connection. Usually the most vocal ones were the least attractive ones. Seriously, go to a drive thru if you cannot control your sexual presentations. No one wants to hear them, or see them, and no one is impressed.

    There is currently a TV commercial that shows a young man trying to work from home, and his visiting uncle shows up in the background wrapped in a towel. The uncle might be a nice man, but I don’t believe anyone wants to see towel wrap failure. It is distracting, it is embarrassing, it could be nauseating. Private parts, private lives, privacy! What a concept!

    • Many years ago, I and a female friend were flashed by a flasher. I remember both of us just burst out laughing, and the red faced flasher scuttled away. ????????????

      • Best response is to point and laugh !
        Too bad I didn’t do this decades ago to the cremaster flexer on the Pars metro. Why did I turn beet red with embarrassment when he stood in front of me ? Can somebody explain that ? I should have punched him in the ????!

      • The one that flshed me was a teenager many years ago when I was in my mid-twenties. I had returned with takeout dinner to the shop I was managing after hours to complete some work. It was dark and no one was around. He was hiding behind a post, then came out to flash me. For some reason he seemed harmless and pathetic. I told him to grow up and put it back in his pants, which he did, and then left. There was a state run school for Native American youth (back when they used to pull these poor kids off the rez to “re-educate” them) down the road and he must have slipped out that night. I felt bad for him, but didn’t show sympathy so he would leave.

    • “He would “wave” to me with a body part…”

      It’s hard to imagine a bigger turnoff.

      • Yes, I went from loving the romantic attention during the love bombing stage to not wanting him to touch me at all. Every part of my desire was in reaction to what he was doing, things he thought were “sexy” were big turn-offs to me. These things, and his addiction to porn, did not come out until after we were married. It was like the Tale of Two Cities, the best of times and the worst of times.

        I do not understand why a con artist, expert liar would know exactly how to dupe a woman during courtship, and then turn into a creepy bad sexual pervert guy, expecting this same woman to react in a positive way. Maybe it is the duper’s delight? You thought I was a nice man, but I was always a creep, fooled you!

        The stupid part, for them, is they lose the benefits of the wife appliance they worked so hard to dupe. I had learned a thing or two with Cheater #1, so Cheater #2 was much easier to divorce. He also did not leave with half my assets, or much of material value from the relationship. From time to time I would hear from him or someone who knew us both, and his material situation never again was as good as it had been with me. He went through several more women, but more quickly. He died at 69, living in a RV, doing maintenance work in an RV park. I merely felt relief that he would never contact me or my sons again.

        The good news is that I got back into therapy I had started in my late 20’s, and really worked hard on myself. I was like you, LAJ, I didn’t know when to leave a relationship, and I still had unresolved FOO issues. But I am much better now, and happier than I have ever been in my life. I am good to myself, and have learned to forgive myself for my own problems.

        I do not look for a mate to “complete me” or solve any problems I may have. I do not have to be flashed, annoyed, or endure unimpressive waves anymore. I live a peaceful life now, as long as I don’t watch too many political ads or news shows on television. I hope my hard earned experiences can help others avoid some of my mistakes. I never had a forum like this back in the day when I really needed it. I hope the younger chumps don’t ever have to feel as alone as I did during the bad times in my marriages.

        There will always be perverts in the world, and liars, and cheaters. How we spot them and deal with them can change for the better if we work together for positive change.

    • I’ve been flashed three times in my life. It really is a pervasive fetish. And, let’s face it, its nearly all men who do this. I think it comes down to the male obsession with dicks. Maybe Freud got penis envy wrong–It’s not women envying men’s genitalia but men envying their own.

      • I met this guy online dating several years back and dated him off and on for a year or so. He really thought he was cute, he was a runner and had a pretty nice physique but whatever. He would text me cheese cake photo’s of himself laying naked across the sofa. I’d promptly delete them, never commented on them. I was leaving town for a funeral for my beloved God daughter who died at 28 and was grief stricken. He knew I was going and he knew how broken up I was. And I’ll be damned if he didn’t send me video of him jacking off during the memorial!!! I fucking hated his guts that very instant and never spoke to him again except to tell him how disgusting and gross and sick he made me. It actually scared me some too, because, WHO would do a thing like that?! I don’t online date anymore, so many scrotes out there. Believe me when I say ‘no woman wants to watch a video of a guy jacking off.’ Gawd, words can’t explain how gross and pervy and creepy that is.

        • LOAJP— How macabre, sick, disgusting, repulsive and vulgar.

          I’m watching The Sopranos again. I think it’s sort of the millennial version of Brecht’s Arturo Ui– a study of totalitarian despotism set among NJ mobsters. In the third season, the ASPD sister of the titular character, Janis, wacks off while her cheating mobster squeeze talks to his girlfriend who’s grieving the murder of her (the gf’s) son. It’s no accident since Janis first seduced the mobster right after the son’s murder, then salaciously talks about how bad and naughty they are doing “that” while he’s on the phone with a grieving partner, clearly getting off on the combo of grief and betrayal.

          So chilling. Glad you got the early red flag and bolted.

    • Just putting out here that as a university prof I’m sick of “leggings” used as pants.

      • That’s a false equivalency…you can’t compare women wearing comfortable attire when they are engaging in an activity that requires being seated for long periods of time, like college classes, AND men exposing their genitalia to unsuspecting women. But, if you’re a professor, you know the difference. It’s the strangest thing that you would thing to post this here as if they are somehow the same.

    • This. Flashing is about the sexual thrill of pushing the accepted societal boundaries as well as crossing other people’s boundaries by imposing one’s unwelcome nudity upon them. So another form of entitlement that used to be routinely noted as part of a pathway to further criminal behaviour such as sexual violence. Please note the criminality aspect and although I feel certain that this will be waived off because of his professional status as a mistake and not prosecuted I think this level of risk-taking points to more than likely cases of sexual harassment of work colleagues if not hands on then the lewd overtures or dick exposure to female colleagues forced to enter his work space over the years. I hope people come forward with other instances of what a POS this guy is

  • “Dupers delight”… completely agree. After working hard to except that he sucks over the past 9 months, and accepting the hard truth that he fucked around because he wanted to and because he could, as for the motivation (yes, I tug on the skein sometimes) is that he got off on the deception. Things he said over the years point to this, and now by accepting it, I can finally lay it down.

    Definate progress towards meh.

    • I think in most cases they do get off on the sneaking around. I don’t know that some of them realize it until it is too late. But, it is definitely part of the thrill of adultery, as stated by professionals of all sides of the issue. It just makes sense really. If it were just like the sex in a long term marriage, there would be now draw, I mean parts are parts, and the mechanics don’t change much. The deception and illicitness provide extra kicks in the form of more hormones, and they are teenagers again. Sadly many of them think it will last, but of course it doesn’t.

      • There was quite the cast of characters in a therapy group. One of the men liked to stand under stairs so he could perv on women by looking up their skirts. A former trained therapist. Some people aren’t fit for public outings.

  • You crack me up!! You had my comments already written down before I could think them. CL, you’re great!! And yes, you ruined my breakfast sausage.

  • My first (chump) thought upon reading the news was that his wife (chump) Zoomed him at the same time and it was her he was “with.” Gave him the benefit of the doubt (chump). Dumb, I thought, foolish, I thought, feel sorry for him. Chump-thinking. Wasn’t aware of his backstory. Damn.

    • Aren’t we sweet (chumps)?

      In a better world, it would be wonderful to be us all the time. In this world, we need defense systems.

  • Oh, they *definitely* get off on the deception, it’s an evil thrill when they think how much they’re trusted, and I’m sure they think we’re fools for doing so. Normal people would feel terrible shame and guilt, but not them.

    Before I knew about the cheating, ex fucktard actually *planned* for me to live in his flat with him and his rat faced whore. “She’s your friend too, and she’ll help with the bills.”

    I still can’t get my head around that, what kind of person actually *plans* to do that to his wife? And what kind of evil woman would actually agree to such an arrangement? No-one normal, that’s for sure.

    I suppose it was a queasy thrill for both of them. She doesn’t know what *we* know, snigger snigger. I just thank God I found out in time. ????????

    • “She’ll help with the bills.” Wife appliance #2. There would be another RatFaceHo on the side for the ratfaceho action.

        • Omg! “She’ll help with the bills.” That he would even make that argument indicates the degree to which he’s an entitled, clueless, unfeeling, jerk.

          LoveaJackass is right about appliance #2. His cake includes not only sex on demand but a side order of financial help.

          Mine retired and expects this much younger woman (a nurse) to go to work so that he can go on her health insurance. Haha! I wonder if that has happened. I tend to doubt that she went into this affair thinking that she would end up working full time (and it would have to be full time for him to go on her policy) to support him, a rich-ish doctor. Who knows?

          If she does get guilted into working full time (which could happen), then he’ll be tormented by fears that she’ll meet someone else.

          I know I shouldn’t care, but I find it semi-amusing.

    • Yep, I think I mentioned before that my ex FW actually bragged about my trust in him on a couple different occasions, when he was right in the middle of his fuck fest with schmoopie. Crazy as hell, the whole lot of them.

    • That’s another thing I’m ashamed about. I’ve had someone say, “Oh, you knew…” But honestly, I didn’t. I’m ashamed for being so naive, so frickin’ dumb. My ex brought his skank to actually live with us temporarily when she moved into the area. It would never cross my mind to do the ugly stuff that they did and so I didn’t think anything of having her as a temporary visitor, because… she was just ‘a friend’. We didn’t have a spare bedroom, but one of my sons had a bedroom on the opposite end of the house off of the living room. She stayed in that room because it had an attached bathroom. My son chose to sleep on the living room couch while she was there. My job required that I get up for work very early and leave the house by 6 AM. She and my ex actually screwed each other in my son’s room with my son sleeping right outside in the living room. They’re very ugly, ugly people. Something is very wrong with these types of people. It’s all about them. They feel entitled to do whatever they want to do. Oh. By the way…, she’s a family counselor (with a Masters in Psychology) at a local university. I can only assume that she’s very sick in the head.

      • That “oh they know” shit really pisses me off.

        Many don’t know, for various reasons. Usually we know something is off, and most of us ask (raises hand) the response is either “you are crazy” or “I am just stressed over work” or some such shit. They are lying to us, gaslighting us. We are decent folks and we will of course give the benefit of the doubt to the person we love more than anyone.

        • What I knew was the tip of the iceberg. After the fact and stepping away from the disordered much time was spent realizing how he operated. I have zero shame and accept no responsibility for his deplorable calculated actions.

          He’s a lowlife and I’m thriving. Live better is my motto and I do just that. Truth is power.

          • “He’s a lowlife and I’m thriving. Live better is my motto and I do just that. Truth is power.”

            Yep, same here. I can’t say if they are ecstatically in wuv, but I know they have crapped all over themselves on several different occasions and times. The bankruptcy and blowing up his relationship with our son being the top two, but there are other things. I know because of course my son and his wife talk about it from time to time.

            Reality is folks can’t escape who they are, and who they are determines the actions and decisions they will make.

        • “We are decent folks and we will of course give the benefit of the doubt to the person we love more than anyone.“


          • Right. When you love & trust someone, you’re not analyzing every lil detail. But when the spouse’s mask slips off, you can then see the subtle red flags when they no longer have the chance to gaslight you. My ex loved his duper’s delight and using me as a wife appliance. Glad there is job opening for a new wife appliance. Maybe his affair partner needs a promotion.

  • From McSweeney’s this morning:

    1. Your dick is on fire.

    2. You are having a dick-relevant exam via telehealth.

    3. You are a baby and it’s your virtual bris.

    4. You are in a literal dick-measuring contest.

    5. You are doing an Airbnb virtual experience.

    6. You got a new kitten and named it “Your Dick.”

    7. You finally got that audition for Equus.

    8. Your dick is catching up with all its high school dicks.

    9. There is someone who has asked, out loud, with the consent of all parties on Zoom, “would you please show us your dick?”

    10. It’s dick day in health class.


  • He makes trumpie look less bad. You really could do stand up, lady. We howled over the outmeal this morn. Tx

    • It sure feels that way these days. Or at least that it’s in incredibly short supply.

      • People who do these things feel no remorse except for the situation they’re in, they only have remorse for not doing a better job covering their tracks.

  • I’m on Zoom for work 5 days a week. This morning I had an hour of Zoom conferencing with students and once we were finished, I left the camera on and muted the sounds so I could catch 10 minutes of cable news before I left for work.

    I didn’t do a Sharon Stone and expose the vajayjay. I’m trying to imagine being on a faculty call with the VP and deciding to indulge in a sex act–even if I had the camera and sound off.

    It’s sad that Toobin turns out to be a Very Special Cheater, Wandering Dick Version. But once you know, you can’t unknow.

  • As I was reading CL’s reply I couldn’t stop laughing.
    Although I feel sorry for his family, I don’t think I’d like to listen to his editorials anymore.
    Mental visions of what he did is nauseating. (But still funny)

  • I’ll tell you what… everytime we go through another wiener story… I feel liberated. Of course, my heart breaks for the cheated on and the kids caught up in the shit show… but I’m not gonna lie… they validate my experience. What happened to me with Mr. Sparkles really happened… it was six years ago and it is easy to start to forget the horror that he made of my love, our marriage, and our family… and how sadly unoriginal it was… he followed the playbook including online wanking off with his AFF “friends”… couldn’t tell you what he does nowadays with Zoom and Houseparty, but one can imagine. A neighbor recently said to me that cheating happens in a marriage because of BOTH people… I should send her this article ask her what Toobin’s wife did to contribute to this behavior. Don’t believe the gaslighting from anyone… we don’t cause it, we don’t control, and we sure as hell can’t cure it….

  • After having used the Google machine, I feel sorry for Toobin’s teenage kids–what they have to see if they google their father.

    • Our society is obsessed with the concept of kids making their parents proud, but perhaps we’ve lost sight of the reverse. This dirtbag has a basic duty to ensure his kids aren’t subject to abject humiliation at his hands…and what a failure he’s been on that front!

  • It just seems like integrity is in incredibly short supply these days. Just another entitled White guy, doing whatever the hell he wants and hurting whoever the hell he wants because there will be zero real consequences. Maybe this public embarrassment will serve up a much-needed but small dose of consequences, but I suspect he’ll still go to sleep tonight in his comfortable bed with his comfortable money surrounded by his comfortable family…and this will all blow over for him. Fun.

    • Some folks don’t fair as well. I personally know a mother of three girls who got involved with a perv who convinced her to allow photos and videos of their intimate times. He used them to go on swinger sights, and share your porn sites, and eventually her three daughters saw the pictures of their mother.

      I don’t think that is something you would ever forget. I feel for the girls, but this was a fully grown middle aged woman who really should have known this type of behavior would not turn out well for her. Many will say, “she consented.” I think she was led through a trip to delusion, and she went because she wanted to be loved and desired. She was used. Duper’s delight? Why don’t these pervs find something better to do with their time?

    • “…. just another entitled White guy….”

      Please don’t drag this down to a matter of race. As CL notes, this is a *character* issue, not race, colour, political views or anything else.

      Shitty people do shitty things, and it doesn’t matter what colour they are. I remember reading that MLK whored around. Gandhi slept with beautiful young women in order to “test his self control”. Blech.

        • Bill Cosby’s in prison. But I’ll give you Tiger Woods…he seems to have made a pretty decent comeback despite being a total dirtbag. In any event, see my above comment. I could list the White guys who did dirtbag things and went on to experience limited to no consequences, but I don’t have THAT much free time.

      • Yes well you can pull out a handful of exceptions to every rule. But I think the historic volume of White men getting away with bad behavior and facing limited consequences speaks for itself. And, perhaps MLK would have faced ultimate consequences for his philandering…perhaps he never lived long enough to find out.

  • As a male chump I’m totally stunned by this revelation. I had no idea of Jeffery Toobin’s past affair and horrible treatment of the woman but had I known (I suspect executives at CNN were aware), I would have seriously reconsidered offering him a position in an effort to protect the credibility of the news program (and the legal analyst). Corporations and municipalities manage risk in all areas of their business. Why do networks continue to offer contracts to people who show they have a poor moral character?

    I hope his wife has the clarity and strength to leave him and move on with her life and I hope that her children support her fully with this.

    • I couldn’t agree more. They knew!! At the very least, it hurts their brand. So what were they thinking? Money? Was he that much of a draw?

      I also like your comments about the wife and kids.

      • I think CL, CN, are *slowly* changing the narrative, but it *is* slow.

        In truth, “what were they thinking” : they’re not really thinking at all. Let’s face it, most people who have never experienced betrayal have no understanding of what it’s like or what it entails. STD testing, paternity testing, etc, etc.

        Also many people, especially in TV etc are incredibly superficial – this sort of gross behaviour gingers up the viewing numbers, and besides, one scandal is swiftly superseded by another.

        It just *does not matter* to people like this. Just think of political scandals over cheating, in my own country, the UK, Boris Johnson (or old BJ as I like to call him ????????????) is not only a cheater and a liar, but has a number of illegitimate children by various women.

        And yet, he is our PM, and whilst he gets plenty of criticism over his handling of Covid, and Brexit, I have yet to see any criticism of his moral failures.

        Perhaps we just don’t correlate morals and politics. Which I can see in a way, politics is a dirty business, you pretty much have to be a dirt bag to be a politician, which is why one never sees totally honest, moral people entering into politics.

        Someone who enjoys having power over others is *not* a good person, in my view.

        And what do my meandering views on politicians and their lack of morals have to do with cheating per se, and this entitled pos Toobin, you might ask.

        Exactly as CL says. We are talking about a *character* problem, I would add *integrity*. This revolting creep Toobin did what he did because he felt entitled to do so, because the little people are nothing to him, he is vastly superior, and so it is with all politicians.

        This network he’s employed by will shrug, think, oh well, we got some click bait, and move on. It’s our job not to let them get away with it.

        • “Perhaps we just don’t correlate morals and politics. Which I can see in a way, politics is a dirty business, you pretty much have to be a dirt bag to be a politician, which is why one never sees totally honest, moral people entering into politics.”

          Unfortunately, it is just so true, at least from what I have seen. Just when I think, oh there is a good one, boom they are exposed. Now logically I know there has to be a few who are not that way, but I suspect very few.

          “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

          It brings up a memory I had not thought of in a long time. Many years ago before my FW revealed himself to be a cheater/liar, he started to get involved with local politics. I remember explicitly his mother saying, I hate to see you get involved. He said “why?” she said: “I have never known anyone in politics to be clean, they may go in that way but they don’t stay that way”

          She is long gone, but she did live to see it happen to her son. I mean he may have been that way before, but it didn’t get revealed until he gained power, both on the job and in politics.

  • I just can’t believe men are still doing this stupid stuff…..oh wait he is a cheater, yes I can.

  • Batshit crazy other woman prize this week goes to Maria Athens, the Alaskan newscaster. One version of her “luva” Berkowitz’s nude selfie taken from above the top of his head (weird angle) shows his hairy ass cheeks ! Trigger warning for Jewish chumps because she’s an anti-Semite as well.

    • Shouldn’t Lily James get that award? Or maybe, that should be LAST week’s Batshit Crazy Other Woman Award. Making out for the duration of a British Airways flight with a married dude old enough that he plays your frickin’ father in your current tv project…!? Curious to read all of your takes on gross cheater Dominic West, whom one might think would have learned from being on the tv show The Affair that cheating doesn’t make you a good guy and tends to blow up a lot of innocent lives and make you own life not so great, too.

      • Lily gets the “Shameless Other Woman Award”. Maria threatened to kill Berkowitz and his wife Mara. Scary and unhinged. Writers couldn’t make this stuff up.

        • Lily what’s-her-nane to most webizens. People didn’t know her name until now and it’s not– and never will be again– for her work. Same for DW. Both will get a flood of offers in the wake of the buzz until the media machine catches on that this kind of buzz is just a career death rattle.

          Even people in the UK were having to remind each other she was “that one in Downton. No, the other blonde, the one not really blonde. No, not the one with the baby. No, not the Lily from Emily in Paris. Yes, Cinderella, not Snow White– that was the other homewrecker with the other guy. Forget his name. Yeah, the Lily that was papped snorting coke in the park.”

          I’ve developed a snarky habit of reading comment threads on celeb cheating scandals because public opinion explains why the media has been in overdrive trying to sell the benignity and joys and forgiveability of adultery. It’s an attempt to sway public views. Why? Because the public is happily lining castle bridge with cheating heads on pikes. No matter the gender of the cheaters, no matter whether it’s the married cheater or the side piece being pilloried, the public is gleefully dismembering them equally. And very little of it is moralistic– it’s just secular cheater hating. Comments echoing Perel, or claims that sharing blame between cheaters and side pieces is “slut-shaming,” or comments claiming monogamy is unnatural are in the vast, vast minority. The rest is just raucous equal opportunity trashing with shows of sympathy for betrayed spouses and kids thrown in.

          Imagine how that must feel to so many individuals in power in the media, in industry and politics who are dick zoomers, cheaters or their ambitious collaborators, profit-anxious handlers, agents, brands, etc. Clearly by the frantic attempts to alter this public reaction, cheaterville is very, very afraid.

  • What’s even more disgusting is the fact that CNN will be welcoming Toobin back with open arms as if nothing ever happened in a few short weeks. In their words he is “too valuable a commodity” to sit on the sidelines in this political climate. Apparently it doesn’t matter to CNN that he is on par with Harvey Weinstein, aggressively pushing himself on women. Too bad #Metoo movement!
    Even that pathetic excuse of a journalist, Brian Stetler, brushed off Toobin’s TUBE antics as an “accident”. And the chronically offended Rachel Maddow on MSNBC for some reason found Toobin’s live wanking amusing. Pretty strange for a so called feminist.
    So not to worry. Toobin will be back on CNN lamenting the horrible morals of the deplorable conservatives and preaching about how ACB will be single-handedly taking away a women’s right to choose… he of course will conveniently leave out how he attempted to strip his Mistress of her right to choose by trying to strong arm her into an abortion.
    This is why I watch Fox. At least they get rid of their misogynist pigs!

  • I have posted a couple times but as a guy it is hard because there was a time where I just a step above being a scumbag. To hear of what the women went through with their cheating men; excessive porn usage, video gaming, among many other red flags. I’m definitely guilty of the first two early in my marriage but worse: I dived into a brief but regrettable cyber sex episode with photo exchanges and talks of fantasy hook-ups but never had an actual affair. Young, stupid, and selfish but no excuse; I was solely responsible for what I did and the pain I caused her.

    She found out from my emails and was hurt and angry which she had every right to be but I promised to make it up to her and I actually did. Twelve years later with two kids. We had a life together with its ups and downs. I was not a unicorn nor was I a romantic, outgoing fellow but I was (am) a good father and a middling husband—not great but sometimes good.

    The last two years leading up to DD1 and 2, we were both working parents tag-teaming with our two kids. Date nights for us was often just a bottle of wine between us and movie night which was more than enough for us I thought. Little by little though, she had more and more girls’ night outs. Until one day, Karma came around and fucked me up.

    ILYBNILWY basically meant she and our son’s former youth football coach fell in love ????????. In the end, my STBXW was the actual cheater; blew up our family of two kids to be with some schmuck who betrayed his own girlfriend with whom he had his own two kids by. Oh that divorce decree can’t come any sooner. No one deserves this hell especially those chumps that were true and faithful in their own relationships: married or not, kids or not, less then 6 months or 40+ years together. Someday things will be brighter at the end of this.

  • Yuck! Your TDS is acting up CL! Not a good look. The holier than thou virtue signaling and liberal crap you’ve been spewing here has become increasingly nauseating….and boy are you bitter. Take your own advice. Stop preying on those who are hurt and vulnerable, and perhaps start your own search for this ever elusive state of meh you claim to be in. Hint hint…you most certainly are not there yet!
    Signing off…for good

  • David, please keep in mind with your research that there is a drastic difference in potential for physical violence in that direction of gender violence, all other considerations aside.

    Obviously a woman can be dangerous, but brutal strength is one of the hormone driven gender differences that is difficult to ignore.

    • Ask any woman who has been physically pinned down and restrained to the point where she can’t move.

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