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Your Snooping Sins

It’s one of the more perplexing aspects of the chump condition — the false equivalency of “snooping” with cheating. Did he rate escorts? OMG, you looked at his phone. HOW COULD YOU?!

Trust is the social glue that holds us all together. Yet trust is also the way you get played. To be chumped is to have your decency weaponized. Of course you would never violate their boundaries…. as they are are violating yours on the sly.

But when the gaslighting becomes all too much, (surely he’s not really asleep in his car… in Vermont… in January…) the curious chump is going to look. This shit kills cats.

People, if you feel the need to behave like a Soviet spy in your relationship, it’s OVER. But most of us need evidence. And most of us eventually find it.

So your Friday Challenge is to a) tell CN what you found snooping and b) describe the profound indignity of your cheater when confronted with proof. Hey, those escorts were not going to rate themselves.



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  • My son told me everything, aged; 9 I was in shock a 24 year marriage gone and our dream home!????????????

    • I’m so sorry for you and your son.
      Age 9 is old enough to remember everything without the maturity to process both the resulting damage and the internal guilt/confusion over his involvement.
      Be the sane, loving parent going forward but be diligent about getting him help if needed as he matures. This stuff may not show its ugliness until he is nearing adulthood.
      The selfishness of the cheater knows no bounds.

    • My 13 year old son sat at the family computer and used the “search history” button to find his school project. Instead, he found his father’s Craigslist hookup searches. In a panic, he ran for his 16 year old sister. She screamed for me. We all stood in silence, looking at the screen.

      Later, when I told my son that his father and I were getting divorced, son asked, “is it because of what I found on the computer?” So, yes, guilt and trauma for my sweet boy.

      • (((hugs))) … my son was 12 and it was Christmas. My hatred for the fuckwit is profound.

    • After 23 years married I found the text messages describing the sex, love and how much they wanted to be together right that moment. The circumstances in which they written are what really blows my mind.

      She was texting her AP while she was sitting across the table when we were on a really nice date night I had set up. I was actually having a good time but I felt like snooping later so I did. She fell asleep and I tried to open her phone but the password had been changed. I remember I had installed my finger print (ring finger) as one of the unlocks a couple months earlier and bingo! It opened right up to the “WhatsApp” that she was using when she texts him.

      Finally I knew I wasn’t crazy as she’d nearly had me convinced of. I was sitting in an attorney’s office at 8am the next day.

      • B
        I’m really sorry… yes, their actions/ timing is often mind two kids were under 3, I was taking care of them 24/7, while getting my degree( (full time)
        I was exhausted.
        Yet, when my h came home so tired, frustrated and miserable- I told him to go for a movie to relax- I will stay at home, no problem.
        He did.
        Only- he didn’t.
        He booked a hooker, had a fun with her, came home – loving and appreciative ; he even brought me some chocolates ( since I allowed him his “ me time”)
        When I think about it now- it makes me feel ????
        Still- in my book- taking care of a person you love and giving them space should be normal.
        I just didn’t know that the people you share your life with can be so cruel.
        Now- I know.

      • My EXH used to sit in the living room with me at night texting his tru luv….and when I asked him who he was texting he would get so angry that I apologized…..makes me angry just to think about it. I was so stupid

        • I think so much of our anger (at least in my case) is directed at ourselves for trusting the lying sacks of shit. It took me almost twenty years to realize that. I had not thought of the ass wipe much at all, as I was busy with life. Then he pulled some shit with our son; and it all came back. After some research on cheaters/Narcs I realized what an idiot I was. It is maddening.

          In my FWs case he has made a big mess of his life, but you know it doesn’t really help the anger at myself. Oh I know I shouldn’t feel that way, it was not my fault yada yada yada. But, I think that a little part of me will always be pissed at myself.

          • I’m angry because I wasted 25 years of my life. First DDay was 25 years earlier with the same woman. I found there initial Facebook exchanges the night he left for good. Enormous lies he told her —- he restored historical homes (never, not in his wheelhouse at all) things abut our son’s birth parents. Yes I think they killed his twin brother at 5 weeks but they couldn’t prove anything, the courts/police tried. There was no trial where he sat in the front row every day and the judge called him into his office to ask Hume why, then gave him a reserved seat. Could go on and on.

            I saw where they were back in luv in the first 24 hours and he decided to move 1,000 miles away from his 14 year old son and I. Yes I saw where he sent two dozen roses to her on my birthday telling her she was his muse etc.

            I understand I didn’t go through the correct/normal grieving proses and am doing it now, or at least beginning it. 6 months after he left my mom’s end stage COPD got very bad – emergency rooms every other week for two months, then into a nursing home. She didn’t have any resources and was upside down on her house so I spent a month emptying her home with her best and only friend with my MIL and FIL (they have been my rock – amazing family). Then my alcoholic brother jumped into a pool of water under a fall at Watkins Glen State Park and died. His charming girlfriend videotaped it so I’ve seen him die. Not a memory anyone needs to have. I had to tell my divorced parents their son died. My dad asked me to pay for half the funeral (he lives in a gated community and has more money than God).

            Two weeks later my mom fell and broke her hip. Amazingly she survived the surgery. Within a month she fell again and cracked her pelvis. At that point she agreed to go to Hospice 10/5). I’m thankful she spent the last two months at such a wonderful place.

            The next disaster was my FIL got lung cancer. He died in June. Last month my MIL was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. Due to many things these people have been more my parents than my birth parents. I am going to be totally alone.

            I’m sorry to dump all of this. I am coming to tests that I never worked through things with my divorce and 12/3 is the anniversary of my moms death. This is hard for me as I loved her very much — at the end she told me she thought of me more as a sister or a friend. This explained a lot on how she treated me…and taught me to take BS / abuse from others. Like any child I just wanted to be loved.

            I just feels like too much to go through— DDay was 8/5/2018. I’m tired and soon to be alone with no emotional supports. Currently I’m trying to support my MIL.

            So I thank you all for listening, this post just brought up so many memories.

            • ???? So much pain.

              I agree with the wasted years. Depending on which lie I choose to believer from my ex FW, I wasted two, three, 10 or the whole marriage (21 years) on a man who didn’t love me. But, hey glad I could have been of service while he looked for the true love of his life.

              I am fortunate as I had though not a perfect childhood, parents and brothers who loved me. My oldest brother was a stinker in his early years, (not for long) but he quickly grew up and went back to being the person he was raised to be.

            • Big hugs to you Silver Anniversary.
              May we all, at some point, have compassion for ourselves.

            • Wowza. And yet, here you are alive and speaking your truth. With parents like yours you had to develop inner fortitude. It will sustain you. Healing after betrayal takes a long time and while you’re healing you’ll find new friends, sisters from another mother, new family. I hope you get a break from the dramatic, some nice boring years; like sipping cool lemonade on a sunny porch overlooking a valley while watching the sun sets boring. Still peaceful boring. I think you can achieve it and somehow I don’t see you on that porch alone.

              • Thank you all. I know at this point I feel like my life is a Lifetime made for TV movie without the happy ending.

                I know I’d like to find local friends, but with COVID and my sons special needs I just can’t see it happening. I sound like a defeatist and I really am no optimistic. Not sure what is wrong with me. I just don’t know how much more I can handle.

                If anyone is out there near Ithaca NY let me know……

            • I rarely comment but I wanted you to know how much your stories/memories resonated with me. I want you to know that my immediate thought was “what a STRONG and RESILIENT human.” All of that tragedy and you survived and kept giving love and good intentions. We cannot choose the families we are born into, we cannot always control where our hearts want to be, but we can make efforts to help others, give them love, and hold them tightly in our hearts. I send you light, healing energy and my gratitude for sharing your story. x

            • It is the self loathing that I struggle hardest with even after all of these years and I STAYED. The mental gymnastics I have done are truly unbelievable. Shortly after DDay, I took my older daughter to Kindergarten, left my two toddlers with a neighbor and went to the oncologist with my mom to find out she had terminal breast cancer. It was a devastating day. I called FW and cried to him. He asked if he should come home. I was trying my damndest to be strong and shoulder it all so he would love me (dance, dance, dance) and sobbed to him that I was fine. So he stayed at work with HER. He didn’t call to check on me all day. I sobbed to a neighbor that Divinely showed up, I bawled as I picked up the babysitter, I sobbed all 30 min. of my commute to work to my sister on my cell (no texting, it was 2002), I walked into work and my boss showed great concern and tried to talk me into going home but I knew my colleague had made plans he was looking forward to yet even he offered to give them up because he cared so much for me.

              My sisters husbands all came home to comfort them. There was great rallying. I type this nearly 19 years later and I am in awe of the woman I was. I shouldered the great weight that my mother was going to die of cancer. I shouldered the weight that my husband never loved me and didn’t then (new revelation, of course. I would never have married him if he had actually said this before), I shouldered the weight that I drove him to the arms of another woman because of all of my flaws. 19 years later and I am still FURIOUS! What. The. Hell? How did I seriously believe this was acceptable? RIC was so strong but I wish I had been stronger. There is a low simmer always burning. Yes, I’m still angry at him. I’m absolutely furious. Yet I’m also immensely disappointed and angry at myself.

  • Nothing too new or original. I snooped on the mobile phone and found two female co- workers listed under the names “Andrew” and “Chris” and a good number of calls between the two after 11 in the evening. There were also emails to another co- worker who is apparently “a queen, who doesn’t know her real value.” Apparently, she underestimated her “sensual appeal and was so important” in his life ???????????????? I was the bad guy for snooping and was told he was just “supporting a co-worker with self esteem issues” and if I told anyone I would be contributing to the ill health of his mother (she was fighting cancer) and “Did I want to be responsible for someone dying?”

    • Omg my ex said this about one of the many women he was flirting with by text as well “I was just helping her feel better about herself”. My response was “all this is making me feel pretty shitty right now, am I supposed to go find someones else’s bf to make me feel better about myself?” No response. Hm.

      • “all this is making me feel pretty shitty right now, am I supposed to go find someones else’s bf to make me feel better about myself?”

        That’s a great one! I wish I had been so clever when my ex was saying that shit to me nearly every day about some new (or sometimes repeat) woman.

    • I also got the guilt trip, only mine was about our son. My now-ex was desperate for our son not to be told the real reason we were divorcing, and kept pushing the “we grew apart line.” The ex said that obviously I didn’t care about our son if I was willing to deal him the trauma of knowing what his father had done. Funny how my ex never thought about how his own activities would deal our son trauma!

      • “Funny how my ex never thought about how his own activities would deal our son trauma!”

        Or the trauma to you. That was a risk he was perfectly willing to take. He pretty much knew the wife appliance would cover for him. Or so he thought.

        In my ex FWs case, he called me and insisted we keep a promise we made to his mother about living in one of our rental houses. I said that promise was based on our marriage contract, you broke that contract so all is null and void. He then threatened to sell everything. (like he controlled the law) I said “knock yourself out big boy” and hung up on him.

        He called later and apologized, I just listened and said, ok Good bye “click”.

        Asswipes think they are going to keep controlling us. Thank God I had an excellent lawyer, and he had a slug for a lawyer.

    • This would be previous cheater (not the one I’ve referred to before. I know, picker issues). I unknowingly asked to borrow his phone to Google something, and a message to his sister popped up with “Good morning beautiful! ❤️ Hope you slept well.” Within the text convo, she went by a different name entirely. Another time, I searched his call log to see if he was still talking with OW. He angrily snatched his phone back, proceeded to erase the call log as I sat right next to him, handed the phone back and said, “see, I never called her.” I advised him, in that case, to call Sprint to find out why his phone was acting up.

  • His dating profile saying we were separated and living in different cities (huh?), emails from women he had arranged to meet. Lots of Craigslist listings for women who do massages.
    When confronted he said “I would NEVER do something like that to you. What kind of person do you think I am?”

    • Straight out of the cheater playbook… trickle truth… I got “it wasn’t me”… then “it was me but I was just joking around sending those emails”… then “I left the hotel room before the hooker arrived because I love you too much”… I’m 6 years out… he’s telling his current victim that someone is “phishing him and putting profiles on dating sites using his photo” (these are very sophisticated phishers… they even manage to change the location setting in tandem with the office Mr. Sparkles is working from that day… amazing)

      • I got the “it wasn’t me” with my STBXW. I caught her tinder profile in which she stated she had a boyfriend who wanted to watch her with other men. Tinder shows location and she was showing as within half mile of our house. I screenshots it and she swore blind it was not her and was someone catfishing. Funny enough it was gone 20 minutes later. So the malicious person must be spying on us and knew to delete the account as soon as I found out. I said maybe we should phone the police, met with silence. She was caught cheating with nearly 20 people and my lawyers and few others reckon she has a personality disorder and a whore.

  • All the snooping I did was actually AFTER DDay, after he left. He left himself logged into an old PC that I thought he only used for gaming. I found porn, but the most interesting things were in the search history. Here’s what he was searching for:

    -How to hide cash
    -How to set up a private post box for parcel deliveries
    -How to get sex toys, handcuffs and sexual weapons (yes, that was the words used in the search) through airport customs
    -What to buy your overseas girlfriend
    -Local escorts
    -Several FaceBook searches with specific women’s names in a country he was traveling to
    -Best songs about rough sex (seriously?)
    -And the very best one…why do I have so much gas?

    He was also logged into an email account where I had the pleasure of reading how he’d hit on the woman who I referred him to for a professional headshot. Emails from a bunch of people that were after him for money, and various people he’d pissed off for a variety of reasons (I had no idea that he had this many enemies, over dumb shit like plumbing bills that weren’t paid for years. I had no clue). Emails from his twu wuv where she was talking about the research she’d done on mental health facilities where they could send me. In a few days after I read her email, my stbx called me about “sending me somewhere where I could get the rest and help I needed.” If I had not read that email from her, I wouldn’t have been tipped off as to what he was scheming. So I said, “yeah! Are you offering to send me to a day spa?” Idiots.

    Snooping is painful and horrible, and yet, it was the only thing that gave me the insight I needed to understand just how sick and abusive he was. Her emails also revealed her shitty character and she was actually trying to have me committed. I wished I had a bit more of a surveillance mindset before DDay.

    • Thank you. I laughed my head of off at his last search. Today has been triggering and a painful anniversary of dday1. It’s been a few days since I finally moved out of my cheating brother’s place where I had sought refuge last few months. Unpacked my last suitcase after 6 months. One day at a time, one problem at a time. What a ride this year has been.

      Back to snooping. Yes, both my XH and my bro attacked me on discovery. XH said snooping runs in the family – my brother has been known to hack. My brother called me a self righteous snooping nut and that I need to figure out why I have a spying problem.

      Reality, after 10 months of wreckonciliation and gaslighting, yes I did check xh’s phone and that was DDay3 (6 months ago), walked out of my home and moved to brother’s. Out of the pan, into the fire.
      Seeing messages of my brother with his AP few days after leaving home was by accident. Covid lockdown has been a blessing in that way. Keep me in your thoughts as I gain strength to tell SIL and fight my family. We are migrants and have no other support.

      • Covid lockdown has been a blessing – I meant as SIL and my brother haven’t been together except for 3 weeks in total. She is yet to move to Aus but due to lockdown, has been away from FW brother.

        • ((((BigHugs)))) Yas
          YOU are Mighty, remember that as you go forward!
          Stay strong.
          CN is rooting for you!

  • I have looked since finding out but I never found a thing. The only reason I know anything is because he told me to ‘get it off his chest’ but as he was telling me, I saw how proud he was of himself that he so masterfully deceived me for 20 years. He offered up all sorts of information like how close he came several times from being caught out, what apps he used and even how he unwittingly involved his dad at one point. I know more than enough but I would love to know some actual facts that were not from the lying source.

    • Eliza,

      My situation is similar, including the obvious pride in what he had pulled off. He bragged about where they’d had sex in the house. “Yes, our bed. Oh, and that sofa, too.” I think it was thrilling for him to come clean.

      • Your ex and mine sound similar.

        Just two month before Dday (25 Dec) he stated after some whore grabbed him at the park Halloween event, that “Susie wouldn’t believe I was cheating, unless I told her” He said that after my best friend made a sarcastic remark about the whore. He seemed so proud of it. I felt a chill run down my spine, but I kept quiet; it was the beginning of the end for me. Of course it had ended way before that, I just didn’t know it.

        Note: she was not the whore he was screwing, he was screwing that whores best friend, who was his employee. A month later he sat the both of them at our table for his work Christmas/award party. I could tell he was sweating like a hooker in the front pew. I knew then something was up, but still didn’t think it was either of them because; one) neither of them were very attractive, and two) surely he wouldn’t sit his whore at our table. Guess I was wrong on both counts.

        He rubbed my face in it several times as I was to find out later. Hope, it was worth it to him.

      • Oh my, yes
        My h’s dday confession sounded more like bragging while I was sitting next to him, absolutely frozen, complete emotional shut down.
        He was providing details with a golden nuggets in between
        “ oh yeah, I was crazy about her, but she didn’t want to see me again- it was driving me nuts”
        “ well, this escort looked a bit chubbier than her profile pic, but since we already met….”
        “ yes, I got lost on the way to the hotel ( foreign country, inability to communicate- yet, the drive to see this one particular hooker was overwhelming) and it was pretty dangerous, but after all I made it”
        “ I’m sorry, but I was not on vacation. Expecting gifts after my 14 days business trip is just over the top. You should know better”——- after I was taking care of our children, house, work and my grad school, while he was “ working hard” overseas aka screwing as many escorts as he was able to book
        Yes, shame on me

    • That is a special kind of fuckwit… more sociopath/NPD leaning… they get off on watching the pain they are causing you with their truth… did you see the black deadpool shark eyes too like many of us have… they are pathetic soulless monsters.

      • Yes agree, this is sociopathic behaviour. Mine too got off on the suffering he caused me. I am well familiar with the black, deadpool shark eyes. I happened to see my ex’s latest profile photo online the other day, and the dead, black eyes are still there.

      • Yes! The eyes. After I caught my then husband in bed at his office – why yes, a bed in his office – with his 40-years younger “employee” I called my BFF while driving home and told her. I then said ‘remind me to tell you about his eyes.’ The usual hazel color was gone. His eyes were dark, possibly black, no whites visible. In all 15 years, in all types of lighting, in sickness I never saw his eyes look like that.

        • When I looked at my H, when we had people over for New Years Eve (he wouldn’t cancel, I should have) his bright blue eyes were a dark steel gray, peering at me through hateful slits when I looked at him.

          Now when I think that I let him come back for even that week haunts me. He should have never had another shot at me.

  • I knew about the affair, but we were in counseling and he swore that he had stopped seeing the OW a year before and blah, blah, blah.

    He borrowed my laptop and forgot to log out of his email.

    He was still seeing the other woman. In fact, she wasn’t his only schmoopie. Oh, and did you know you can order drugs on the dark web using your real email address? Turns out you can!

    He didn’t try to deny this time around, but he did explain himself that he was so weak and he didn’t want to hurt me so that’s why he lied to me.

    • Yeah it’s funny how they always feel like the “you finding out” part would hurt you so badly. That’s where they truly failed you see. Not the, you know, part where they actually DID all that shit.

      Now that I think about it that makes sense though! People who compartmentalize their lives like they do truly believe in out of sight, out of mind. It’s like the second they’re in front of you it happened on some other plane. At least my ex acted like that.

  • Charges on credit cards for things only a woman would use and that I never received; the *inability* to snoop on his cell phone, always with a password.

    Ony the address changes…

    • Nothing original with mine. We had separate bank accounts. Stupid me. He bragged that I didn’t know how much money he had in his account. So one day I opened his bank statements. Tons of charges for hotels on nights he was allegedly working serving warrants. My ex is a police officer. Tons of charges for gifts from Tiffany’s, Coach, that I didn’t receive. A charge to the Poconos Cove Haven couples resort and an email for 2 tickets to a Nascar Race out of town that was coming up but he conveniently never mentioned. When I said something to him he got angry that I snooped. Then he proceeded to gaslight by telling me he was helping a fellow police officer cheat and his friend didn’t want to leave a trail back to his house hence my ex “charging” all these goods and services for his “friend” . Then he told me he was sleeping with the Sheriff’s wife and went to orgies!! Then he said he made it all up because he was angry that I snooped! WTF!

      • Oh my word, there was a charge for $2000 at Tiffany’s on my STBX’s card that I discovered years before. He said he wanted to have a wedding ring (he “lost” his years before) and so he ordered a special one. We live in Switzerland. This was a charge in Philadelphia, where he’d been on a business trip. He said he would pick it up the next time he was in the US.

        Uh-huh. Turns out it was a bracelet for his schmoopie. Bought on my birthday.

        • Swiss,

          Bought on your birthday? Ouch.

          Classy. I found charges for Hooters on my birthday but no, I wasn’t there…

        • Ugh. My last birthday that we were together, he spent the entire fancy lunch texting one of his OW making plans to meet up the next day. I knew he was texting another woman but didn’t want to ruin the day because he would explode with rage if I said anything and we had a two hour drive back home. I quietly ate my birthday shit sandwich. I’ll never do that again.

          • So disturb

            Oh, our chumpy way of keeping a peace
            On my 30 th bday( we were visiting his family)
            After a huge fight night before ( something really stupid- I was trying to make a plan for our getaway without kids, and ended up being called selfish)
            he left me alone with two kids, no money, no car , to go to the city- just my MIL/SIL in the house.
            No one remembered my bday, until the
            “ surprise cake” was delivered at 5 pm with a huge bouquet ???? of roses ( roses are the only flowers I don’t like)
            Image management anyone?
            MIL was amazed how amazing her son is, kids were excited to eat the cake, and I was furious.
            At 6 pm Mr. Wonderful came back from his business meetings and was greeted as a hero.

            I wanted to smash the cake, set the roses on fire and leave.
            Instead… I ate my shitty bday sandwich like a good chump

          • Also ridiculously expensive. He could have gotten the same type of bracelet for half the price somewhere else.

  • When confronted about the emails from 2 dating sites confirming his account and change of passwords etc my ex flew off the handle and said someone we knew had hacked into his email and Facebook account…. I never believed him but had kind of kidded myself maybe he was just looking. D Day came a year after this when I received a message from a woman who he had met on a dating site who with some detective work had worked out he had given her a false name and in fact a whole fabricated different life and wasn’t single like he claimed. My advice? Trust your gut feeling like CL says if you feel the need to go snooping your relationship is already over.

    • We were in couples therapy that HE wanted, trying to work things out. I went on his iPad… I swiped out and saw his mail was open. There was the email from an online dating site that he joined while we were in therapy and two emails saying he winked at specific girls and the messages were waiting from them. I screenshot them and told him they looked lovely and good luck with them. He swore he didn’t message them back. Needless to say we are getting divorced.

      • Yep I checked the IPad history. He had googled “how to leave the love of your life?” Not sure if that was for me or married OW. What also popped up was adult friend finder and the Best Western in a nearby city. ????

  • I found his Viagra prescription in his glove compartment. He said he didn’t want me to know he had them as He didn’t want me to demand sex. He flew into dramatics and said he couldn’t live like this. It really was an Oscar winning performance..
    For the record, I work(ed) full time, cared for my elderly father and was/is a devoted mom to our 2 children. Demanding sex wasn’t high on my list of priorities.

    • Ugh. Mine started the Viagra, too, but he said it was for *us*. But I remember asking him after we’d had sex if he’d taken a viagra, and he seemed angry that I would ask. Basically, he took it once with me to practice so he’d be ready to use it when with his AP. I feel so used.

      Imagine justifying that behavior.

      Mind you, this is a man who always considered himself morally superior. A real high-horse asshole.

      • The exact same thing happened to me. Used it on me once to make sure it worked, I guess.

        They really all are pieces of shit, aren’t they?

        • Wow! Mine didn’t tell me he went to get them. Then I got the pharmacy text that a prescription was ready. He didn’t want to talk about it. Said he never filled it. Then I found an empty bottle that was refilled before he went to a business trip. Said he used them on himself. Whatever.

      • Oh gosh the same thing happened to me. He worked out of town and came home once a month. Since he’d blamed and shamed me in his “I deserve a wife and a mistress” speech and had reluctantly agreed to not have an affair (he lied), I was surprised on those weekends that he could keep going for a very long time, since in the past 30 years he was a quick ejaculator. I realized later he was taking Viagra or something like it. In the divorce deposition he denied taking Viagra with a smug expression but guess what? Lots of other names for it. I saw once that there is a greater incidence of melanoma in men who’ve taken Viagra. Huh.

    • The dramatics!! It is a typical ploy of any small time criminal to make a huge scene to divert attention from the crime. I don’t miss the dramatics at all. Or the yelling. Or him. Or the triangulation. I just realized I didn’t smile at home for a good year. Yep, he was having a relationship with that other woman for that year. Trust your gut, for real. I will never question mine ever again. I learned a lot from that dumb ass. Oh, and he won a REAL TURD and so did she. They took the trash out for me. I do miss some things, but none of them have anything to do with him.

      • Agree. Trust your gut.

        What frightens me, though, is that my gut didn’t give me any warning (and I always thought I was so perceptive). It was out to lunch for 2 1/2 years, probably out of commission after trying to digest decades of shit sandwiches.

        I think it’s slowly recovering.

        • I knew he wasn’t treating me right. I questioned him, “Oh it is just work pressure, I just need some space, etc” I backed off and let them go at it. Never knew I was in a competition. Wouldn’t have mattered anyway, but if I had trusted my gut; maybe I could have been free a year sooner, and not been so humiliated.

    • I dont understand the viagra. I found viagra in a stash in our bathroom days before the discard (34 years married). Was it for ‘us’ or do these FW need it for their two luvs? Really, I feel like I have no idea about these things. Anyone can explain for me?

  • I found one of his bank statements laying around in our living room: he had paid for a hotel room in a city close to our home on a day he was supposed to be on a business trip. I went through his things and found a receipt for a pair of very expensive Ray Ban sunglasses he had ordered online and had had delivered at work. When I saw a woman’s name on other bank statements I looked her up on Instagram and she had posted photos of herself, wearing her new Ray Ban sunglasses. Then I found a note book from when he was visiting his biological family in Asia. Turned out that during the 18 years (married for 13 and 2 kids) we were together he had been paying to have sex with prostitutes and taking notes and rating them. When I confronted him he was upset that I had gone through his belongings, because he never had anything that really belonged to him when he was little before he was adopted and he felt that I didn’t respect his privacy. His mother also got upset with me for the same reason.

  • I found out at first by happenstance. My ex asked me to help him change his password on his gmail account. I saw numerous emails from facebook messenger. I only could see her responses. She told him she wanted to be with him. Sent him emojis with hearts for eyes. Told him it was raining up her way to bring a tarp. Stupid me askef him about it. He immediately deteleted them. He then said there was nothing going on. She is just a friendly person.
    I figured out his Facebook password. Stalked her page. I found a pitcure of my ex at her 50th birthday party. On our cell phone bills they texted or talked to each other dozens of times a day. The more I dug the more I found. When I showed him proff he still denied the affair. And shamed me for digging into his personal business.

    • I also figured out his old Facebook account password. She sent him a picture of herself on a toilet in a public restroom. Yuck. His response was that she was one sexy women even on a toilet. But, he continued to deny they slept together.

    • Happenstance also for me.

      DDay#3 (20 years after DDay#2): I had received a text from our phone service saying I was almost out of minutes – had no idea why. Checked the account and found HOURS of calls and many HUNDREDS of texts to and from a single number. Took about 8 seconds to figure it out.

      He was ‘at his office’ on a day he didn’t need to work. I called his cell from mine and when he picked up I called the “mystery” number from my landline. I heard the ‘mystery number’ ringing simultaneously both through my cell phone and through my landline. Told him I needed to talk to him about a certain phone number. Then told him that was ME calling on HER line, so I knew who he was with.

      Months previously he had told me his computer password, so before he got home I had no trouble copying all of their email communications – he had deleted them, but most were captured on Apple Time Machine. He was mostly resigned to me having the info, but SHE hit the roof, begging and then demanding that I erase all of her goopy, drippy purple prose – truly worthy of the Bulwer-Lytton prize.

      Instead I wound up sharing the emails with her family and with my church elders when they wanted to know why I objected to her stated intention to start coming to my church. I was NOT yet at meh, and knowing what I know now I wouldn’t recommend doing what I did. The emails also had extended commentary disparaging other guys she had ‘dated’ in the dance community we were all members of – I ALMOST sent copies of those to her former “friends” but decided that I shouldn’t cause THEM unnecessary humiliation.

      • Your phone-call trick was absolutely brilliant, although I would imagine your heart sank when the other phone rang.

      • “He was ‘at his office’ on a day he didn’t need to work. I called his cell from mine and when he picked up I called the “mystery” number from my landline. I heard the ‘mystery number’ ringing simultaneously both through my cell phone and through my landline.”

        Pretty smart move. Good for you.

        • My ex FW would tell me he had to work on a Saturday. Found out later he had forwarded his work phone to his Police Department cell phone) When I would call, he could answer as if he was at the office. We lived less than two miles from the PD, it never occurred to me to check; because I didn’t suspect. Even if I had, he would have lied and said; oh I was likely out at lunch when you called.

          He was actually at our river property two hours away with the whore and her 10 years old son. The river property he had conned me into co signing for so we would have a retirement property we could use with the “someday” grandchildren.

          He had no intention of retiring with me, he and the whore were planning his escape, and they needed my signature to buy their get away place. She certainly couldn’t help, she lived in poverty and he was helping her pay her bills.

          • To pull something like that you just don’t have a soul. Did he have to buy you out of the property? If memory serves correct aren’t they now living in a trailer or something?

            • No he got the river property, which was fine with me; I didn’t want it nor could I pay it off. He got most of the real estate, for the same reason. I got a small rental property we had with two small houses on it. It was paid for by a lean on the marriage house. He had to pay off the lean and he got the marriage house. He also got another rental property. He got the boat. But, he had to pay off all our credit card debt (which he ran up)

              He got most of the property, but I got a property that he had to pay off. Worked for me. I later sold it to put some money down on the house I bought.

              He then somehow managed to sell off the property and he and schmoopie ran up massive gambling debts, and filed bankruptcy. Then they blew up their relationship with my (our) son and his family, and my son says they are always fighting with her family. They are truly a mess. But, living the dream I guess. If you are in luv, what does it matter where you live. Lol.

              So he did get more property than me, but I am ok with it as I didn’t want but the one property, and quite honestly I think I somehow knew he would crash and burn. I could tell at the time he was not real happy. I don’t think schmoopie has made him any happier than I did. I mean except for when they were sneaking around and getting the illicit sex thrills. I imagine that was fun.

      • I always dream of releasing the emails to his family so they can see what a truly deceitful human he is. Why do you recommend against?

        • Because it keeps you tied into their drama, while the goal is to leave all that behind.

          You absolutely can do it if you can’t resist, but don’t expect the results to be as you hope. His family likely either has a pretty good idea who he is and don’t care, or they’re the tree that apple didn’t fall far from.

          We’d all like there to be some justice in this world and for cheaters to get their come uppance. They often do, but simply because of their crap life skills and low quality as relationship partners, parents, friends etc. But we don’t have control over that, and our lives are better when we can let go.

          • Karen,
            You’re spot on in your advice to WrecktheRIC. I’ll add that a personality disordered’s parents helped shape them.
            My father Harlow promptly cut off all contact with his second wife’s two teenaged sons after her death from pancreatic cancer. They lived together as a family for a few years.
            My paternal grandmother voiced concern for them and shock at my father’s behavior.
            My own mother wasn’t at all surprised considering how Harlow discarded me and my older brother, his own flesh and blood. “Is that woman just stupid ?” she asked. “No Mom-she wears blinders. Her son can do no wrong.”
            Bonus for my mother not having to deal with Grandmother as she aged and got worse. The woman and my grandfather and their two sons were referred to as “Jane and her three boys” in their neighborhood. My mother overheard this in a powder room before marrying him. Should have fled then. Hindsight is 20/20

        • I don’t recommend sending the evidence to the family for the reasons given by Karen E and Sucker Punched. Also in my case OW convinced her family that I was threatening them, and they started (did not follow through) on an order of protection against me.

  • If I had to list everything I found, I’d be here all day. All of it was post-Dday.
    I dug relentlessly with sheer determination. I left the negotiations to my wonderful lawyers but I knew I could find way more (and my time wasn’t marked in 15 minute increments). I followed every lead from any financial papers and endlessly Googled his name and her name in every possible combination (don’t forget last name, first name). I found tons of information that I never would have thought about.
    Best find (posted before but for newbies) was that every credit card charge at a chain store/drugstore/ATM has the store ID number next to it. Googling that ID number gives you an address. Easy to follow their location, date and time.
    Best response from HIS lawyer..”you keep giving her so much ammunition”.
    Best statement from me to ex at the last court date after he had to give me way more than he ever anticipated…”did you think I was stupid?”

    • I haven’t been able to figure out if Cheater Narc Ex is stupid (despite the Ph.D, M.B.A. etc) or whether it’s the entitlement. I think he so strongly believes that whatever he wants is the RIGHT outcome, that he thinks things will come out as he wishes, no matter what.

      And then they’re SO PISSED when reality intrudes …. All our fault, of course, as usual.

      • ” I think he so strongly believes that whatever he wants is the RIGHT outcome, that he thinks things will come out as he wishes, no matter what.”

        I am pretty sure that is what my FW thought. He knew he would go through some crap, but in the end he would be living the life he wanted. Didn’t end that way, or at least knowing how he is living, I assume it didn’t.

        • ????

          Yep, my cheater certainly wasn’t stupid; but dang he pulled some stupid stuff. I don’t even mean the stuff he did to me. I mean that was horrible, but he didn’t care about me, so…

          What I mean is the stupid shit he did (and still does) to mess up his own life. Still makes me shake my head.

  • I spent 3 years looking. He was good at covering his tracks and possibly hadn’t gone off a very deep end (it’s still cheating).
    Obviously I got the line about snooping and many variations of the topic: “I told you we were going to look together when I was ready” – when?? He begged me to stop confronting him, making this promise , right off at the start, and he seemed so i distress that i agreed to pause it – I thought a couple of days or weeks, it led to years! While we were “rebuilding”. It was a glorious distraction technique.
    I developed OCD (already had PTSD) through that time. We went to a therapist for this issue, after one year he candidly blurted out he didnt even remember that’s what we were there for. A shitshow.

    Speaking to an OW sealed the lid on the coffin of that relationship.

  • There were so many lies exposed. And because I was the one who always had to help his Luddite ass to create his online accounts and even come up with his passwords, per his requests to do so … it wasn’t too difficult. But I want to be clear … I never snooped until it became obvious that I was being fed a lot of improbable excuses and stories over and over again. The biggest discovery was that of a journal he had been keeping in the Notes section of his iPad. Then his therapist told him that my snooping was proof of how I control him and that it explained his need to cheat. His therapist actually called my therapist to come up with a joint plan for me to give my husband space and privacy so that he could sort out his feelings. I never went back to that therapist and came to understand, finally, that the marriage was irretrievably broken. The therapists wield so much power in these crises and can inflict so much additional harm. It can be hard to know when it’s time to divorce them, as well.

    • ” I never snooped until it became obvious that I was being fed a lot of improbable excuses and stories over and over again.”

      That was me, too.

      All the improbable excuses and stories just built up. I was in his flat, which he was supposedly doing up for ‘us’, and the rat faced whore was living there and just helping him, she slept on the sofa, blah, blah, blah.

      She had left when she knew I was coming over. He actually told me how upset she was, threw the expensive trainers he’d given her out the window. He said to her, what are you so upset about, you knew this was going to happen, she said you know what I’m upset about. He. told. me. this. And I still frantically spackled. ????????

      Anyway. she’d left her phone in the flat. I read all the texts about “her chappie”, how he’d taken her shopping, and they had to be careful I didn’t see them, he was going to take her to London to see Les Miserables, bought her a sky jump for her birthday, told her to get her passport ready for August, they went out for dinner and”everything just flowed” how “nothing feels wrong”, “we didn’t get up until 7pm”, and much more.

      When I confronted him with all this, he just laughed, and said you know what she’s like, she always bigs everything up out of all proportion, and tried to explain it all away. I *fell* for it. Still can’t believe how stupid and gullible I was. ????????????????????

      Later he told me rat faced whore was angry I’d read her texts, I’d no right to do that.

      Then I went into his phone, and found the texts to his mate, boasting about fucking the cunt.

      He didn’t actually get angry with me for snooping, just tried to explain it away as “just lad’s banter”. But by that time I couldn’t spackle anymore, left and filed for divorce the next day.

      I’m divorced, have my own little home, far away from them, and was busily trying to “gain a life” until Covid put the kibosh on that, *temporarily*. But I still writhe over my trusting gullibility, how eager I was to trust him in the face of overwhelming evidence. Sometimes I think I’ll never get over it. ????????

      • Chumpnomore6,

        Please don’t beat yourself up. I think a lot of us look back in awe at how trusting and gullible we were.

        I want to go back in time and shake some sense into my former self, “Spinach, are you really buying this crap? Wake the eff up and put down the spackling compound!” But, alas, I can’t do that. I try to remind myself that I was so caught up in the marriage and the manipulations that it’s understandable that I couldn’t see what was right before my eyes. I also sometimes wonder if my subconscious wouldn’t allow me to see it because of the pain I would feel.

        Anyway, I’m glad you found those texts (good snooping) but also understand how painful reading them must have been.

        It is hard to get over this. I think that’s why we keep coming here. We’re not alone. It’s a shared pain. ((hugs))

        • It IS terribly hard to get over this. It is truly trauma. I am 3 years, 9 months from DDay and I still have to visit this site for reassurance that cheaters suck. Actually, I now fully understand and grasp that cheaters suck. What I grapple with still, however, is the unfairness. I’m alone during COVID. My ex is with his 20-years younger fiance. He pays for a modern condo that they both live in. He pays for her med school tuition. He pays for her food and clothing. They are to be married January 2nd. I lived thinking that my 28 year marriage would last until death. I was comfortable in our savings for retirement and the person with whom I’d spend that retirement. We were, I thought, loves and best friends. The life I thought I’d be living now is gone and certainly not as easy. My ex and I worked together to build a beautiful life. That life was stolen from me and given to a young girl. That is what I still struggle with. Yes, I know she got a sparkly turd. Yes, I know the 20-year age gap will eventually hit them both. And, yes, I’ve learned that I can take care of myself and be happy. But, it’s the life I lost that I mourn – the one I thought was solid and happy and loving. It’s hard to admit that life was 30 years of fake.

          • I think it is hard to get past the theft of a life, and all that entails.

            For the most part the cheaters used us as their safety net, while they set up their new life. Then when they are ready they discard us and tell us to get over it, move on, let it go, etc.

            The theft of the life we help build by him and his whore. Even in my case where he lost everything after our divorce, due to his and schmoopies gambling; it still stings that I believed we were working for our future, while he was (for at least two years, maybe more) actually working to secure his and schmoopies life, using in part my money/time to secure it)

          • I’m so sorry. I’m just learning this myself. It’s not just the loss of the relationship, it’s the loss of your future as planned and your entire life as you know it. We’ll be fine, because we are strong, capable women. But I never thought I’d be doing this at 60 years old. Even though he says he’s sorry and wants me back….

  • I didnt knowingly snoop in the beginning. I had been bumped on to another flight and arrived an hour early, when I saw him walk a woman out the backdoor, through the garden and out to the communal parking area. When I went in, I never said anything, but I saw a bracelet on the kitchen counter that he swiftly covered with a tea towel. I still said nothing. That was when I started to plan my escape. And snooping.

    • Wow. I wish I’d had your strength when I first discovered his misdeeds. I was a pissed-off, slobbering mess, pretty much. Kudos to you.

  • My snooping was calling a condom company with the batch number of the shiny new packet that my 2 year old nephew found in my cheater’s briefcase. On Mother’s Day. In front of my whole family. Cheater claimed they were old from before he’d had his vasectomy over a year ago. And that they’d somehow made their way to his briefcase. Even though he’d changed briefcases since then
    Anyway, the company confirmed that batch was new, only on the shelves two months ago.
    Cheater denied denied denied and stick to his story for as long as it took him to think of another story. That two of his colleagues put them in his briefcase as a joke.
    It still blows my mind 20 years later that he thought all that was plausible and how angry he was that I wouldn’t believe him.

    • Holy crap! His audacity! You are so MIGHTY for calling the condom company about the batch number. Great tenacity and quick thinking. Glad you are outta there, for a couple decades now by the sound of it.

      • Haha yeah, wasn’t so mighty about following through – didn’t believe him but kind of stuck around in a loveless marriage for another few years. He eventually left for another OW (I did find other condoms around in the meantime, OMG he was dumb) and I am forever grateful to her for taking him. Because he was desperate to hide that it was about an OW and trying to look like a good guy still, I took the bull by the horns and saw a lawyer asap and got a decent settlement. Could have got more but was happy with what I got and he signed without a fight. So glad I did that because he started getting nasty as soon as he realised that the girls and I weren’t going to just fall into all his plans for how visitation would look.
        Anyway, he’s been out of our lives now for over 12 years so all is well.

  • I found a FB exchange between my Ex and his Whore, which prompted me to kick him out of my house. My Ex later told my daughter, who was sad about our separation, that if I hadn’t invaded his privacy, he and I would still be together.

    I’m still shaking my head. These entitled narcissists are unbelievable. According to my Ex’s worldview, his cheating wasn’t the problem; the problem was that I “invaded his privacy” and found out about it.

    The worst part? I think he honestly believes that.

    • Mine blames the breakdown of our marriage on my continued digging. Not the years of cheating and gaslighting. Go figure

  • After d day (30 years ago . know I’m pathetic after all these years ) I was living in my car . There were no cell phones facebook or twitter . The interloper was a cop on the night shift . I was assured that “things between them was over , nothing happened ,we’re just friends, you’re letting your imagination get you, yadda yadda yadda. So one night I pull into my rear parking lot in the alleyway behind “our” house and put my seat back to sleep . Minutes afterward I hear a car stop behind mine and idle..then abruptly take off..then a while later again and abruptly take off. This happened several times during the night and on the final pass of the night a flood light illuminated my car and back yard before the car abruptly took off.. I left before she got up . Next day I was to go over and stay with the kids when she went to work. Pleasantries were exchanged and off she went. I sat in my easy chair next to a phone , I noticed an unusual phone number had been written down so I called it. A woman answered and I asked if Jimmy was there ( OM’s name) she said no I’m sorry this is a drive up pay phone at Wegmans (a local grocery store ) so I asked the lady which Wegmans and she told me….lo and behold it was the one around the corner from my house ! When she came home from work I drove to the Wegmans and found the phone . With a magic maker in big bold letters I wrote on the phone “BACK THE FUCK OFF JIMMY “. The next day I stopped by to see the kids and bring her some money and she very cheerfully asked how I was doing and where I was staying . I told her I’m still in my car,she then says “well where do you park? ” I said here and there “Where in the last few days ? ” She asked , I said why does it matter ? She said ,” well I worry about your safety ” , I said well there’s lots of police presence usually so don’t worry . The look I got was priceless . I confronted her about her earlier claims about it being over and she said “well he calls to see if I’m ok”. Good bye I’m done

  • I felt so guilty for snooping the first time. I went into her email while she was in the shower on Thanksgiving 2015. I immediately felt a huge sense of shame, and when she got out of the shower I confessed. Told her I knew I’d violated her trust and would never do it again. (I found out months later that this was just days after meeting the Carrot Singer for the first time, and having unprotected sex in a bathroom in a hotel across the street from her office.)

    By the following January, I’d had enough, and went full-bore, no-apologies snooping. I found out everything she’d been doing and saying, including that I was physically abusing her, and that the Carrot Singer was coming to my house (for the 3rd time) the following day after I left for work. Most of the vets here at CN know what happened next. When, in the midst of my unloading on her, it became clear that I knew way more than she ever thought I would, she was shocked — SHOCKED — that I went back on the promise I’d made months earlier.

    • She sounds like a real class act. Good riddance. Before DDay when I was really suspicious and literally begging my husband to tell me if he was cheating, he would get this fiendish look on his face and ask me, “what do you think you’ll find?” It was creepy, and it reduced me to tears and I felt sick. It was the most dramatic and intentional gaslighting ever.

  • Mine suddenly put a pass code on his phone. Unfortunately for him, he forgot we have cameras in the house, and unlocked his phone under the camera. I saw him hit the numbers “1980” as if I were standing next to him. I was reading their exchanges for months! That’s the one thing about him that really turned me off. He always did stupid things.

    • ???? What a dimwit. Nice work.

      Mine had a passcode which he claimed was for security reasons. He had the same excuse about using Signal instead of regular texting.
      I wouldn’t have been known about either if he hadn’t opened his big mouth and told me. I never went near his phone and couldn’t have given less of a shit about passcodes, secure texting, yada yada. I didn’t suspect anything at that point, so he tells me stuff that could have made me suspicious? A moron.

      • My XW had a special encrypted messaging app on her phone. When I mentioned it in passing (because it popped up on her locked screen) she gave me this long explanation about how the data in her experiment is valuable and people were trying to steal it so she needed a secure way to communicate with collaborators, so the experiment’s IT guy had them all install end-to-end encrypted messaging.

        It turns out that all of this was true, except for the reason. The IT guy wanted her to install the secure messaging app because the two of them were having an affair.

        • Egad! The nerve of these people! Plus the grandiosity. Yuck.

          Mine was fond of using secure chat apps as well, since apparently it wasn’t enough to be texting all the time even though they worked together and saw each other privately every single effing day. They needed their own private little chatroom, too. I remember finding a sent email that was an invitation to join him in chat. It was addressed to a man. At first I thought it was a real male co-worker who had a very similar name. Then I noticed the email address was a variation of the usual ones on the anonymous email addresses Schmoopie used to sneak around.
          He didn’t think to delete that one even though he denied he had ever had secret online chats with her when I asked. How could I possibly figure that out, right? After all, using the male name was super clever of them. A pair of veritable geniuses.????

  • I never found anything by snooping but it sure felt like hell while looking. I felt literally sick.

    CL’s rt to say the relationship is over if you’re snooping for evidence.

    Things fell in my lap, or I stumbled upon evidence (an opened laptop, landline history on phone, etc..).

    So VERY grateful and joyful that shit is d.o.n.e.

  • CL is absolutely right, once the snooping starts it’s over, and it’s a horrific feeling to feel like you must snoop.

    Snooping is necessary though, when you have children on the line. Hiring a P.I. and having hard evidence, helped settle our divorce without going to trial and ensured a custody schedule that was best for the kids.

    At first he thought I had just looked through his phone 1 time (I had been checking his phone multiple times for months at that point and already had the P.I. on the case, and knew who the AP was), but he told me the fact that I had betrayed his trust and read a new text message from his AP that the marriage was over and he wanted a divorce… and then the next 8 months he refused to leave the house until there was an agreement in place.

    • I think for some of us, the snooping is about punching through the lies and gaslighting and getting our feet on solid ground again.

      I never got “proof” Jackass and MOW had sex. My suspicion is they got caught before it could go that far. But seeing the Facebook page with her as his only friend (when I was on FB and his siblings and his kiddo) just connected the dots in a flash. What I needed to know was why he had discarded me. What the two of them were up to didn’t matter as much as knowing he had literally moved on without telling me. So I think snooping for me was about knowing what the overall situation was so I could start to live in the world of reality.

      • I never snooped, it was the era before all the social media. I would have had to hire a PD. But, being married to a police officer, he likely would have found out anyway. He knew every move I made. I never tried to hide it. Had I tried to do something behind his back, he would have noticed.

        I was the perfect chump, so easy to chump. Spent a long time hating myself for it.

  • Like many of us, it was the smartphone (aka, stupidphone, depending on how one uses it).

    The phone is the ultimate tool of the cheater, yet while they are using it to carry on their nefarious activities, it is busy recording recording recording the irrefutable digital timeline of said activities. Maintaining a double life requires brain capacity way beyond the capacity of a cheater, so it’s only a matter of time before they forget to delete something incriminating. Yet still they lie to your face without batting an eye when you stand there, phone in hand, with proof positive on the screen. I thought about staying with someone like this?!!!
    (My insanity from which I have thankfully recovered).

    Of course, there are those counterintelligence apps for cheaters which disguise their true purpose. But you really only need one solid piece of evidence to verify that what you have is not a marriage but a mirage.

    I realized early on that the cheating accomplices live in the phone, the phone is glued to the cheater, and I have no desire or ability to monitor a husband to verify his loyalty. My answer is in the need to do so.

  • I was able to access Facebook messenger and saw him chatting about the affair with his buddy. They even exchanged explicit pictures of their affair partners and encouraged each other to continue having affairs.

    For my ex that was the greatest offense of it all. He felt I broke trust by snooping. He cut my access off to everything we shared electronically. This included the financials. He accused me of being paranoid. It took me forever to get access back.

    According to him I was not to be trusted. I put him and the OW at risk. He claimed me contacting the OW’s husband was a violation of trust. Because apparently I lied a lot, too. Because the affair was not really an affair as our marriage was over, he just did not tell me that he had checked out.

    His false logic was maddening.

    • They exchanged nudies of their affair partners? Well doesn’t that just scream twuuuu wuuuuv.
      These pond scum cheaters are sickening.

  • I found out he had been making plans to get a divorce. I found out he had a lot more contact with OW than he admitted (and he admitted part of the truth only after they were caught red-handed), and was absolutely obsessed with her. For example, he texted her hundreds of times per month and he just had to say good morning to her a mere 90 minutes before he was to see her at work, every single day. But it just couldn’t wait. Because twu wuv. He also said goodnight to her every single night without fail, and texted her at random times during the day, often while at work, where he saw her privately at lunch and on breaks and could have said anything he wanted to say then. I guess he had a lot to say to her. With me, a brick would have been a better communicator than he was. That infuriates me to this day. I certainly never got any texts and I saw him in person less than she did. I found out he also saw her on the weekends, both days, every week, for several hours in the early morning while I slept (I’m a late sleeper). I found out that he went without sleep just to see her, and that he sometimes took off from work for hours with her, unauthorized and on the clock. I found out he had been to her house many more times than he would admit to. I found out he texted her while we were at family functions like Christmas celebrations, baby showers etc. I found out about the incredible number of dates he took her on, including on our anniversary and my birthday, and all the money he spent on her. I found out his gross, childish pet name for her and hers for him. I found out he had been trash talking about me to his friends and making fun of me. I found out he was obsessed with getting six pack abs to please OW and that his fitness efforts weren’t about health as he claimed, but 100% about her. I found out he was into sick, vile porn. He had told me it was just relatively normal stuff, only mildly kinky at times. But he didn’t know enough to hide his browsing footprints. Dumbass works in IT, too. He’s so clueless it’s a wonder he keeps his job. I suspect he does it by sucking up to the narcs who are his superiors. He’s an inverted narc, meaning he can only relate to other narcs. OW is a narc as well. He basically told me that if I behaved more narcissistically (he put it in different wording, but the meaning was clear) he would have been more into me. Then he told me if I had been more “attentive to his needs” (in other words, less narcissistic) he wouldn’t have cheated. This among innumerable other hypocritical, head-scratching idiocies of his is why my handle is OHFFS, meaning oh for fuck’s sake.

    That’s a sampling of the dirt I got on that POS. There’s more, and snooping is how I got such favorable financial terms out of him. He didn’t want me to spread the damning details around, so he gave me hush money.????

    He whined on and on about me “investigating”, which he knew would not have been neccessary if he had just told me the truth. But he kept lying and then getting caught by my snooping, then lying to try to wiggle out of being caught lying. You all know that story. Damn, they are stupid.

    • OHFFS,

      As I read this I was thinking, “why was he even married to her? This was like my ex – his whole life was concerned with contacting OW (lots) and spending his time doing that. I know we’re the wife appliances, but seriously? Why the fuck bother hanging out at baby showers when they could be living with their dumb ass girlfriends. It really doesn’t make sense. I often wonder what it’s like when then actually leave us and go to their lifestyle. It must be a weird let down for them, not having to lie and get the thrill of spending all their time obfuscating. I’m sorry he didn’t value you. Good on you for gettin a good settlement. I wish I had that leverage. I still haven’t been to court or mediation.

      • I have often thought that was the reason he kept circling back our year of legal separation, they were outed after we legally split. The thrill was dying? He needed to get back to me to get her in hiding again. But, seriously would she go for that. Who knows? Blender and all.

      • Well, in my case his dumb ass girlfriend wouldn’t leave her husband for my dumb ass husband. Her husband makes more money. She admitted to staying in her marriage for the “lifestyle” and the cheater still wouldn’t face the fact that she’s a gold digging whore. It all blew up in their faces when they were caught. They broke up immediately and went as low contact as possible for co-workers. She hated him for giving me any information at all because I told her husband all I knew. He hated her for not having any smpathy for him after I caught him and for being enraged that he broke up with her. So much for twu wuv. ????

        I suppose in many cases they keep holding on to the wife/husband appliance because they know the AP isn’t going to be as useful as the chump and isn’t fit for a real relationship. They know it’s all a fantasy and they like having that plus a good spouse to do the adulting for them. AKA cake. Plus, image is always a consideration, as is the cost of a divorce.
        You’re absolutely right about the letdown, too. The ones who leave for the AP will experience that because there’s no more sneaking around and duper’s delight kibbles. When they realize that you can get sad sausage hoovering and attempts to use you to triangulate if you give them a chance by responding to any of their bullshit.

        I hope your eventual court case goes well and you clean the SOB out. I’m sorry you’re going through such long, drawn out divorce agony. What mightiness that takes! I’m pretty sure I would go insane.

    • Oh, OHFFS, those discoveries must have been so painful. Ugh! And then to whine to you about snooping speaks to his fucked-up sense of morality. He truly sucks!

      p.s. I’ve always loved your handle.

      • Thanks, Spinach. Yeah, they suck bigtime. Mine is one of those “nice guy” cheaters, so nobody would ever believe the abusive shit he’s done to me over the years. Hell, I didn’t fully believe it myself. I thought it was unintentional, he hadn’t meant to be cruel, the usual crap they gaslight us with. My family and friends were not supportive because they believed in his nice guy image and took his side if ever there was friction between us, which was always because of his shitty behavior. So I was being gaslit by them as well, telling me I was oversensitive, too demanding of him, etc. In reality I was not anywhere near demanding enough. Never again.

        Have a good weekend Spinach. ????

        • If I had it to do over again, I would write out all the abuses he heaped on me, words, deeds, stealing of funds etc and give them to my preacher. Not to help me, but to help the preacher learn what others he may have tried to help had gone through. I kept it to myself, because of shame. It wasn’t my shame to bear, but I didn’t have the resources available today.

      • What does OHFFS stand for? I’m not wonderful with texting……just curious

  • My STBX left the family iPad out, unlocked after bedtime stories. It was synced to his iPhone. I picked it up and noticed his chat looked very friendly… hours later, at 3 am I stopped reading. Death by a thousand cuts… this was Jan of this year…I never told him and went underground and got myself organized to leave. 3 kids and married 24 years. Without Chump nation and Cindy’s book I don’t know how I would have made it.

    • You will make it – just stick with us.

      Three kids in 25 years for me. my D day was January 2018 when I saw a text message come on his phone as I was putting away clean towels in our bathroom. He was in the shower normally he kept a death grip on his spine even sleeping with it under his pillow.

      The text was arranging a rendezvous with his affair partner after she dropped her kids off for school because “he just didn’t get enough last night“

      I followed him to her house and watched him park outside for hours ( he later tried to justify it as a teleconference for work)

      I drove home and started downloading phone records text messages and financial records and contacting attorneys. I stayed awake for almost 4 days nonstop.

      I didn’t find CL until February pretty much new by then that it was over, but the tutorial on gaslighting, blame shifting and genuine fake Naugahyde remorse helped me really process it all.

      Filed a soon as D finished junior year exams, and never looked back.

      I still come here almost everyday day.
      It keeps me sane knowing I’m not alone, inspired by the stories of others and resolved for the long hard fight it has become.

      • I am so envious of those of you that had CL. She and a couple others would have helped me so much. Not in changing the outcome, but in keeping me sane through the horror.

        Note: though it wouldn’t have changed the outcome for me, I still would have had to get myself out of the mess; had I known then what I know now, I might have been able to out them way earlier. It definitely would have affected him in a negative way. She was desperate, so she would have clung on for dear life, she had failed to get the pervious married men she screwed to marry her. (there were at least three of them) Someone had to pay her bills. If I could have outed them a year earlier, he would have never been promoted. That is why he needed the marriage at the time, to assure his promotion.

        Good news is, he didn’t keep it, he was busted and put back out on street patrol.

        My son recently told me he retired early, so he took a big hit on his pension. I imagine he retired early because he basically shit all over where he worked, and had to escape. Lol. Consequence’s of a stiff dick with no conscience.

    • Chump Marie,
      I am so sorry for all your pain, but I admire your strength.
      YOU certainly are MIGHTY!

  • Oh Chump Lady, I caught him because he didn’t care to hide his lies anymore. He had one of his whores listed under his dead mother’s name in his phone. That was stupid. Did he really think I was going to believe his dead Mom would text him?

    I caught him because it became suspicious how he was covering his tracks. He wouldn’t sync his phone with mine so we could share location. He wouldn’t use Google Maps because it tracks your travels. He had his phone locked up, wouldn’t share his passcode. He moved out of our bedroom yet slept in our bed while I was gone. I caught him because he didn’t care if I caught him.

    We were going to some function. We took separate cars because he had some work to do at the office. I was close enough that his phone synced with the blue tooth in my car. His best friend was in the car with me and called quickly yelled over the conversation he was having, “ Hey Man, she can hear you.” Then his friend tried to scold me for listening. All of his friends were cheaters. I caught him because of his friends overreacting. Why did he care if I could hear the conversation?

    He wouldn’t let me have access to our finances. He even refused to give me the passwords when he was in the hospital in the ICU. He told me if he died it wouldn’t matter that I couldn’t pay the bills. I was shocked to discover he made big bank during discovery.

    I am so glad to be retired from the Marriage Police Force. It is a demoralizing job. It is hurtful and humiliating to discover the deception and betrayal.
    Now I don’t know what he is doing, what whores he is fucking and lying too.

    I cannot wait to be free of a fuckwit. Divorce goes to trial next month. I truly don’t care where he is, what he is doing or the lies he tells. He is dead to me.

    • That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard off–listing a Schmoopie under his dead mother’s name without thinking that the texting would give him away.

      And what a horrible lack of respect for his mother. I still have my mom on my phone, years later. I would never delete her but I wouldn’t USE her memory for an ugly, deceptive purpose.

      • So true! Disrespect for a dead mom with some Oedipus complex thrown in for good measure.

        Also, Thirtyyearsachump, he’s a snake. I’m glad you’re away from him and retired from the MPF.

    • OMG, that isn’t just stupid, it’s sick.????

      Mine listed his OW as Kenny Rogers. It’s moronic, but I must admit there is a certain resemblance.

      • lol

        Was it because of their favorite song? When a Man Love a Woman? ????

        So many of our cheaters act like lovesick teenagers and are stupid af.

        • “So many of our cheaters act like lovesick teenagers and are stupid af.”

          I have often wondered if he ever realized what an idiot he looked like. But yes, he acted exactly like a hormone crazed teenager. How could they be so stupid to think that will last with the whore.

          • By lasting with the whore, I mean they actually think the thrill of illicit sex will last once they are out in the open.

        • It was probably meant as a dig at me. There was an incident in the Kenny Roger’s restaurant chain which existed in the 90s in which I was not feeling well and became confused about the cafeteria style service. Ex got his food ahead of me (too much of a jerk to wait while I used the bathroom) and told me to get in the line for food. But there was no line. I kept asking him where the line was and he would point, but there wasn’t a line anywhere, just some people standing in a circle talking. Finally I got so frustrated I blurted out “What fucking line?!”
          He laughed about that for years, using it as an example of my supposed bad temper. In reality it’s an example of what an asshole he is, selfishly noshing away and rudely pointing at a line that didn’t exist instead of being a gentleman and accompanying me to where I was supposed to go. On a date night no less.
          No doubt he shared that story with OW, (minus the context on how big a jerk he was) and it was private joke between them.
          Scum, all of them.

  • After I planted a voice activated recorder in his office and caught his after hours affair with schmoopie— first he denied that she was in his office, and when I played him a sound bite— he was angry that “ I invaded his privacy”.

    • Nah, he’s just angry that you outsmarted him and found evidence that he was invading another woman’s vagina. Well done.

  • In his car I found a parking pass to a campground 4 hours away, he said she (family friend) had camped up there with her children, and gave the pass to him so he would know the name and location of a nice campsite.

    I saw charges for expensive lunches out that were obviously for two. He said he took a co-worker out to lunch as she was having issues and he was providing a shoulder for her to lean on.

    Being tricked by your nearest and dearest. It hurts so bad.

    • Yes, it feels like total shit. How many of these assholes take women out to lunch/dinner/drinks because they “need help or support”. My husband used this line and I said, “I need you more than anyone else does.” His face lit up. Not because he was about to change, but because he loved the idea that I needed him and he was not available to me. He got off on the abuse and the fact that I felt small.

    • Yes, it hurts like a mother fucker. Still.

      This was after D-Day, but I happened to be in his car with him because our dog had been killed by a coyote, and we were headed to the vet. I dropped my reading glasses and reached down to find them. Under the seat of his Jeep, I pulled out a Swell bottle. Hers. When he saw what I had in my hand, he had an impish grin on his face. I’ll never forget that.???? He seemed proud of himself. And it was the first time I had tangible evidence of her presence.

      • Yep Spinach, when I found the sex toy bag, my ex gave me the impish grin. And then he went on to say that he’d been collecting that sex gear for years and how women “loved” what he did to them. Sick fuckers.

      • He grinned impishly about cheating right after your dog was killed? ????
        That and his bragging about where he fucked her in your house spells stone cold sociopath.
        Damn, I am so sorry you were abused like that by the disordered creep.
        The good news is it’s never going to happen again, at least to you. Present and future schmoopies, OTOH….well, these people certainly don’t change for the next partner.

        • OHFFS,

          I like to think you’re right. They don’t change. Their relationship might work out for a while if she does what I did: cater to him, soothe his emotional and physical boo-boos, praise him, and spackle like mad. LIKE MAD! If she follows this pattern of behavior, she might not realize that she has a shitty life. I mean, I actually thought I had a fairly good marriage. ????

          Oh well.

          Interestingly enough, he feels he saved the OW from her emotionally abusive ex (they started screwing around when both were married). This is so rich. Pot=kettle.

          It’s an understatement to say that this emotionally abusive cheater lacks self-awareness. (Frankly, I guess I did, too. A little folie a deux.)

  • So I cottoned on to the OW but kept it quiet. I was asking him about said person and whether they would be aware of our splitting up. He said no. I asked him to had given him a referral to a therapist (apparently I should understand that he needed to do this without me knowing because he’s a private person). Answer ‘a friend’. Then I asked a more direct question about the OW. ‘She lives in Scotland and she has a BOYFRIEND’. Funny you have never ever mentioned her name to before. ‘You never let me have any friends’. Sniffle sniffle (ergo I am so awful to him)

    The gig was up then really, the snooping was done and before I’d even revealed what I knew I was getting sad sausage and DARVO. It only got worse. The barefaced lies to my face when I produced some of my finds from my snooping. More tears and my favourite ‘this. isn’t a poem about anyone, its lyrics I wrote for a song for the guitar’. It had had bloody nickname in the ahem lyrics. Total denial. What a coward and what an idiot he must take me for.

    At least it was easy to rapidly move to disliking him intensely.

    • I appear to have changed my name for DuddersGetsChumped to DoddersGetsChumped. I know I’m getting on a bit now but….. must get those new glasses.

  • I didn’t have to snoop. He confessed to 20 years of nastiness . I am certain that it was all minimized and the story changed many times.
    I did subpoena phone records during the divorce and found a lot of suspicious numbers . One number that I called had a answering service for Discreet Encounters.
    That reality helped as did googling the sites that had been searched on his phone. All you have to do is enter a search for escorts in any location. There is a whole world out there that I did not know existed.
    Dec. 4 will be 4 yrs. since GTFO day. Divorced almost 5 months now.
    For the first time I am talking to a man who seems very nice. My eyes are wide open and I feel equipped to recognize red flags. The feeling of hope is exhilarating. I will be careful. I hope everyone can navigate this strange Thanksgiving in a way that brings some happiness.

  • Snooping causes immense pain. Once you learn something you can never unlearn it. To hear your spouse tell another person that they are the love of their life, that they love them heart and soul, like they never loved you. When you confront them they tell you your crazy and making things up. This from the person you have trusted for 40 Years and who you love heart and soul. It tears you apart, make you physically sick, body and soul. I really don’t recommend it for long. For some of us it takes many years to have it sink in and then it just makes you angry. Then you can’t stop, you want out and are stuck. It’s a horrible way to live.

    • Yes, the emails hurt the most. He was selling me on the idea that he was speaking with her because her husband (his best friend) had died, and they were both bereft.

      I found emails (undelete worked) in which they were planning their honeymoon, he was professing his undying love to her, she was the perfect woman he never thought he would have. He lied and said his mother and our son approved of him leaving me for her. He would tell her her lies about him having to go for medical procedures, to worry her.

      He told me that if I ever show the emails to anyone he will tell them that he had trusted me with his passoword, and I doctored his emails.

      • “He told me that if I ever show the emails to anyone he will tell them that he had trusted me with his passoword, and I doctored his emails.”

        I’d call him on his threat and send them to everyone…fake e-mails vs authentic (undoctored) e-mails are easy to decipher. The recipients wouldn’t buy that you set him up.

  • I attempted to crack then-wife’s phone password, but failed. She caught me putting the phone back, erupted in outrage, and then proceeded (literally over the next few hours) to read all my emails, including the extensive back and forth with my family trying to understand the discard.

    • Yes, once they know you have snooped, they tend to respond by looking into all of our communications and records. They might say, “See how it feels!” but what they really want is to discover you’ve done something even worse so they can claim the high ground.

      Once I figured out my EX was having part of his salary diverted into a separate account each month, which I learned by looking closely at our taxes (the one household financial chore he did), he exploded. I didn’t consider examination of the tax return I am legally obligated to sign to be “snooping,” but he claimed it was.

      So, the next day, my EX confronted me with my checkbook, waving it in my face and claiming he had evidence I was using our shared account to pay for all my personal spending. I was the real thief, not him! Eventually, I was able to make him realize, the checkbook in his hand was not our shared account, but my own small, personal account, which he had always known about (gift money, etc.) I was using MY money to pay OUR expenses (light bill, phone bill, etc.) some months because we didn’t have enough funds in OUR account (which by agreement we were both supposed to put all of our salaries into).

      Instead of “stealing” from him, as he claimed, I was gifting money to our shared expenses as needed. And the fact that he had been siphoning money every month through an automatic deduction from his paycheck while I used Christmas gift money to keep us afloat drew our differing behaviors into pretty stark contrast. It was probably one of the few arguments during our separation process where he had trouble finding a way to twist events and make me the bad guy.

      My EX could have read every email I’ve every written. He wouldn’t have found a thing. Of course, he would have had to spend a lot more time thinking about me than he would ever bother doing.

      • The only thing that my wife found out from reading my email was that my family didn’t like what she was doing. My sister called her a “frigid, cold-hearted bitch”. It’s the worst thing anyone has said about her, before or since. And much worse than anything I ever said to her, or about her, to anyone.

        Then-wife was very offended at my sister’s assessment, but I think if you have an affair, abandon your husband of 20-some years while breaking up someone else’s 20-year marriage, consigning a total of 5 kids to shuffle back and forth between different houses for 15+ years, and that’s the worst you have to hear (and it wasn’t even to her face), then you’ve really gotten off lightly and you have no right to complain. Plus, if I’m honest, my sister was spot on.

        • Your sister has a way with words. Spot on, indeed!

          I also love her anger on your behalf. Sibling support is the best.

        • Yeah, my Ex was soooooo offended I called him a ‘jackass’ during a session he and I had with the therapist who was trying to help him fix his relationship with our kids (who he had, in true Narc style, abandoned).

          Man, if the things he did didn’t qualify him as a jackass, I don’t know what would ….

          • But “jackass” is the perfect word for your ex!! When the shoe fits…

            I once called my then-husband an “asshole” in reaction to some asshole-like thing he’d done or said.

            He flew into a rage.

            What he’d done to cause me to react that way wasn’t nearly as bad as my potty-mouthed reaction!

            He lies and cheats, but the man doesn’t swear. And so, CN, he feels morally superior. Fuck him!

  • I’d been subjected to 3 1/2 month of a baffling discard? What had I done? I had no idea. But I finally forced him to be in the same space with me for a few hours and I realized that whatever was going on, I had to let go of the relationship. He had bough me a turnpike pass for Christmas the year before (yeah, I know) and I wanted to switch it over. I needed his driver’s license # and he wouldn’t answer texts or emails. So I decided to see if I could find his # on the state CDL database. Google searching turned up his Facebook page. With one friend, the MOW. And Facebook Messenger active.

    When I confronted him, he was indignant. Then enraged. Then threatening (“You better not tell anyone.”)
    Hey, Jackass. If there’s nothing to tell, why are you so worried?

    What I regret is how I hung on emotionally, thinking he would come to his senses. It wasn’t until I found CL and started to learn about cheaters and how narcissists do relationships, that I got on the road to Meh, which is one fine place.

    • Honestly, I think it is rare for them to come to their senses in any real way.

      I have in the past envied those women who had a husband (initially) begging for forgiveness and reconciling their marriage; but as time went on, and as I learned more; I think those of us who were not given a choice are the lucky ones.

      Oh yes my FW circled back a few times, but I was cogent enough to know that he was only trying to destabilize me just in case he decided he wanted me back. No real love.

      • Or it’s the old ‘it’s cheaper to keep her’ line of thinking on their part.

        Don’t think that a lot of us didn’t know that our ex’s only wanted to reconcile so as to not cut up the assets, or give us part of their pension.

        • Yep, I am sure it is that sometimes too.

          I do think there are the unicorns who truly do want the marriage; but they are as rare as, well unicorns.

          • I know a few marriages that reconciled after adultery. One my sisters. Her husband found other ways to abuse her, he was a tyrant about having a perfect home, and he was insanely jealous, they are still together. Another case the husband took the cheating wife back. To his dying day he would tell his buddies that he did not think she truly loved him. But he stayed for the kids. I know of no blissful reconciliations.

            I think it is BS that you could ever fully love or trust the person that deceived and betrayed you. You could put on a face, but no way would it be good deep down.

            It’s like saying my business partner defrauded me, but we are good now. No f’g way is that legit. Same with a marriage.

            • I don’t know. My older brother cheated on his wife when they were young. He straightened up, and by all sign; they were happy, and he didn’t do it again. He just died last Sunday, his wife had died in 2007 of cancer, they had been married 47 years. In the pictorial I saw one of the notes he wrote to her a few years before she got sick. It said “after all these years, I still love you more than life itself” While I don’t think their marriage was perfect; I think they had a good one.

              Having said that, I still think it is rare, and of course it can’t happen without the cheater taking full responsibility. Also, his wife was definitely not a doormat type.

              I could never have trusted my ex again, he was just the type of personality that was going to always have to be in control.

  • I do not even consider this “snooping” – although HE certainly did. On the day we were to tell our three children that we were getting divorced, my now ex-husband left his phone sitting face up on the kitchen counter. I was already in tears thinking about the boys’ reactions and how their lives would change. I saw his phone light up so of course I looked — on the lock screen was a series of texts from the mistress along the lines of “I love you” and “You’re the strongest man I know” and “xxxooo”. I flipped out and called him disgusting for texting with her as we were about to tell our children a hand grenade had gone off in their lives. Of course, he texted with her DURING the conversation, too. And took a call to tell her the conversation was not over yet. My blood still boils.

    • This is why I get agitated when someone tries to make excuses for the whores. Yes the husband yada yada yada.

      But, she isn’t even a decent enough person to stay the hell away for a time like that. They are both awful, and I hope they live a life of misery. Chances are they will, regardless of the public face they put on. They are after all, who they are.

    • I’m like you MaisyL – I didn’t consider it snooping because it was after D-Day #1 and I had read wreckonciliation stuff online before my Amazon books on infidelity had even arrived, and “transparency” was the buzzword I glommed onto.

      The Python agreed to report everywhere he went and keep his cellphone location thing on so I could verify where he was at all times, and he agreed to let me see “everything” even though he didn’t realize that there were records kept that he wasn’t even aware of!

      Just because the paper cellphone bill didn’t list all calls and texts made from our phones didn’t mean there’s no record: I just signed in to the cell account online to look at that detail. I also checked his tollway transponder records online, to see the date, time, and location of each toll that was paid.

      At first all I saw was evidence of affair #1 (at least, the first I know of). That affair was definitely over because as soon as she found out that he had lied to her about his marital status (told her he was divorced; not true!), she ratted on him to me because she was furious with him. Seeing the evidence hurt like hell but I was going to try to forgive him (big mistake).

      Of course I never fully trusted him again and 4 years later when he went on a date with a waitress (though he had told me he was going to be “with the guys”) the cell phone tracker revealed the truth. The truth shall set you free: that truth did it for me!

  • I was concerned that my (then) spouse was spending so much time messaging her coworker; she claimed they were Just Good Friends and, since we’d just moved to that city, I tried to tell myself that it was good she was making friends. One day I realized that they were using Facebook Messenger on their phones, and that these conversations were mirrored on her computer—which she always kept logged in. I decided to take a look at their conversation to assure myself that everything was casual and ordinary.

    Ha. I was treated to their lurid BDSM sexting.

    I was planning to confront her about it when she got back from the office, but, on her commute home, she deleted it. I had to assume (correctly, as it turned out) that this had become their standard practice.

    • Ah yes, the friends! My Ex doesn’t have friends, unless people kind of latch onto him or his partner cultivates the friendships.

      So when he started sometimes going for beers with the ‘work gang’ on Fridays, I thought that was a good and healthy thing! I encouraged it and didn’t mind taking care of the kids and all those evenings. Then he started running some lunch hours with a guy from work. Good for him!

      OF COURSE it turns out the ‘gang’ was one woman, and the same woman was the ‘guy from work’ he sometimes ran with. Affair #1. Never any gesture or moment of friendship before or after. And when I kicked him out upon confirmation of Affair #2 he walked away from every single friendship we or he had, including the one person who had continued to be his friend for almost 2 decades – a latcher-on, as was his only other personal friend at the time. I truly didn’t understand that, as these two latcher-on friends didn’t have major problems with his cheating (one was a cheater himself, the other just a laissez-faire guy who didn’t want to think about ethics). He ghosted them just as thoroughly as he did everyone else.

      They don’t value ANYONE (other than for what that person brings to THEM in the moment) and they don’t know how to ‘do’ any kind of relationship. It’s sad, really. But I sure wish I had realized all this before I had kids with him. Because they also don’t know how to be a parent, and don’t value their kids.

  • I live on a farm with several outbuildings. In one of those outbuildings, my ex had his “music room” where he would go in the evening to play his guitar, listen to music, and (apparently) call his girlfriend.

    One evening I was doing housework late at night. I brought some files over to this outbuilding, and heard my then husband on speakerphone with a woman. I was immediately suspicious because my chronically depressed, withdrawn, sad sack husband sounded happy, upbeat, and charming with this woman — like the way he was when we were dating all those years ago. I got up in the middle of the night to check his phone — but there was no record of the call. He made these calls every night from his music room.

    I ended up eavesdropping for a week, late at night in my pajamas, and then running back to bed and pretending to be asleep when he finally came to bed. I ordered a voice activated recorder and a book off the internet on how to find out if your spouse is cheating. I ended up confronting him before the book and the VAR arrived. I had confided in a friend who convinced me I needed to confront my husband. One night, I sat in the dark eavesdropping until the phone call ended. As they said goodnight, the “I love you”s and the sex talk started. She could not wait to see him again; she loved loved loved him and he really really really loved her. When he hung up, he turned on the hall light and saw me sitting in the dark. I said “You really really really love her, don’t you?” He became enraged, and got one inch from my face and said “yes, I really love her AND I DON’T LOVE YOU.”

    I grabbed his phone to look at the recent calls and she was listed by initials. I would not let him sleep in our house that night. That was fortuitous, because his laptop was in our house. I signed on and searched his emails for her initials. Lo and behold, I found 2 years worth of emails with love songs he had written her and their plans for traveling the world together.

    Several days later the VAR and book arrived. I later used the VAR to record a weekend’s worth of phone calls between my ex and his AP. He had still not learned his lesson about using speakerphone. I still have the audio files. Every time I would start to get weak during the divorce, I would listen to those phone calls. My anger would make me strong again.

    So yes, I snooped. I do not feel the least bit bad about it. I would snoop again in a heartbeat if I suspected cheating. But I learned not to confront too early. The marriage is over. Gather all the evidence you can before confronting. It will help you get a better property settlement.

    • Discarded Wife this is my story! OMF Hiding outside at the barn in my pj’s! Like a ninja wearing slippers, I did it all the same as you. Hiding under my sheets while he texted her in bed next to me. Reading his text messages when he was going to the bathroom in the middle of the night. You are right, it did help me in the property settlement. I can’t believe I survived this. Knowing others fought the same battle helps me beyond words. Thank you for sharing, this just made my head clear up a bit.

  • I’m a chump, and yes, I snooped and found a boatload of information that confirmed my ex-wife’s affair.

    I wish we would use a different word than “snoop”. To me, that word has a negative connotation. It usually describes trying to obtain information about another person’s private affairs (i.e., stuff that’s not your damn business). In contrast, what all of us did was work diligently to discover information that our cheaters wrongfully and deliberately concealed from us. It was information we DESERVED to know. Privacy to protect the existence of an affair within a committed relationship shouldn’t exist.

    I wish we would use words like “uncover” or “unearth” or “discover” instead.

    Just me being a word geek. Chumps unite!

    • Couldn’t agree with you more sir. The idea that we shouldn’t have the information that we are about to be hit by a train shows blatant disregard and depraved indifference on the part of the unfaithful. I need to know if I’m walking into the room if I’m going to get sucker punched. But then the very nature of sucker punching is to cowardly inflict pain suffering and damage

    • To me investigating is the right word. It is exactly the right word, and the right thing to do.

      My state at the time was a no fault 50/50 state in terms of divorce. However, that 50/50 can be altered if there is evidence of financial fraud. It is how I got a six month temp maintenance package, to get back some of the money he spent on his whore. I had the credit card statements as proof. I also stated that he had admitted to “dating” her for two years behind my back. I got way more back in temp maintenance than what was on the credit card. There was enough to save for a down payment on my car, and to pay my lawyers bill. It actually lasted a year, because after the six months was up, FW started delaying the divorce. Don’t know why, but as long as he kept paying my house payment, my car payment, and my electric bill (we had electric baseboard heat in a cold climate) I was fine with it.

      I did turn the car back over to him a couple months before the divorce was final, after I bought my car. I hated driving that damn car anyway.

    • ^^^^^This!
      Twenty years ago I found out about online sex calls from credit card statements, and huge cash withdrawals from bank statements. Those statements have a date/time/place designation.
      Since those discoveries I never stopped reading all statements very thoroughly & I google any questionable items on credit cards.
      I never thought of that as snooping. I considered it essential to do for my financial safety.
      But I have never had access to his cell phone or email. Once in a while I could catch his laptop open after he left the house. I was able to
      Twenty years ago I found out about online sex calls from credit card statements, and huge cash withdrawals from bank statements. Those statements have a date/time/place designation.
      Since those discoveries I never stopped reading all statements very thoroughly & google any questionable items on credit cards.
      I never thought of that as snooping. I considered it essential to do for my financial safety.
      But I have never had access to his cell phone or email. Once in a while I catch his laptop open after he leaves the house. I was able to take a photo of his spreadsheet with his various accounts & passwords. I tried once to get on his Verizon cell phone account to check activity but they require 2 step authentication! No go! By then, I also didn’t care too much due to Tracy’s advice: if you’re looking for evidence, it’s already over.
      My problem was that I was going to SANON then, & that group is heavy on guilt for “snooping.” As well as heavy on guilt for being angry at the FW.

      • I will never know how much he spent on his whore(s). I ran the credit cards and found evidence. But, didn’t run the bank account.

        Once he left things happened so fast; it got away from me.

  • Reading today’s post reminded me of my horrific journey that began with my initial snooping. I hope that sharing what I experienced will help a newly minted chump, or perhaps a longtime lurker on this blog, to get unstuck and summon the courage to do what needs to be done.

    Yes, there was guilt from the initial snooping, but it was quickly replaced by the most hurtful experience when my initial confrontation was met with outright lying, implausible explanations and gaslighting.

    Then as if I began training for the pain Olympics, I continued snooping, and subsequent discoveries and confrontations led to even more lying and gaslighting in a seemingly endless cycle of pain. In hindsight I regret not filing for divorce upon the initial discovery, like in a horror movie when the innocent family moves into their new house and they ignore the demonic voice whispering “Get Out!”. It’s best to listen to that voice.

    But I was stuck because of my boundless determination to try to fix the unfixable, combined with a disturbingly high pain threshold and a fear of the unknown.

    So the torture continued until I simply couldn’t bear it anymore. The feeling of being stuck and my inability to seek divorce was like desperately gripping the open doorway of a burning airplane. It was when I finally jumped and a parachute deployed that a feeling of relief and freedom took hold. It turns out that divorce is less a horrible ending, and more a hopeful beginning. Good luck and godspeed to all fellow chumps!

    • Sir…what. I think I read in your story is something most chumps are “guilty” of. We tend to cling to the “Sunk Cost Theory” aspect of our relationship. We have invested so much that in our minds it’s a matter of attempting to wright a listing ship that is doomed to sink. We do it industry does it even the military ( navy is trying to save the ill-fated littoral combat vessel program by throwing more money at it). It is not a sign of foolishness or desperation by any means but rather a way of giving yourself closure in knowing you did the heavy lifting to try .

      • @New York nutbag
        Hey brother,
        Thank you for your wise observation. I’m reminded that amid the turmoil, while I was coming to terms with the inevitable decision to divorce, I also felt that I needed to be able to look back and know that I tried everything possible before pulling the ripcord.

        Unfortunately that period of chump purgatory is when we are most vulnerable to the unscrupulous sales tactics of the Reconciliation Industrial Complex. Our desperation for a solution finds us searching the web, wasting our time and money on books and worthless programs promising to reawaken our relationships. In actuality, all we really need is the reassurance that comes from mighty people like Chumplady and the support and shared experiences that come from the warriors of Chump Nation. It really all comes down to asking yourself what is acceptable to you and enforcing your boundaries.

        By our nature, we chumps don’t want to shoulder the responsibility of ending the marriage. A cheating spouse relies on this. The hard truth is that anything short of divorce is a signal to your cheating spouse that they can continue their behavior without consequences.

        • Yes. It’s so interesting the great lengths one will go to in order to save what can’t be, and then the cruelty experienced on top of that? They know we want to save the marriage, the family, the collected history, and they take that knowledge and use it to inflict even greater harm.

          I guess, one way to look at it, we could be grateful for that intentional harm: it’s like a sign on the person’s forehead: Harm Inflictor with Sociopathic Genes. Warning. Toxic.

    • Well put. I’m a gratefully divorced dad, too. I inflicted ridiculous psychological harm upon myself by not pulling that “eject” lever on the marriage immediately after I confirmed the affair. My ex-wife tried to hold me accountable for not being the best version of myself after she had dropped an atomic bomb on our marriage, our children and our family.

      • “My ex-wife tried to hold me accountable for not being the best version of myself after she had dropped an atomic bomb on our marriage, our children and our family.”

        My ex tried the same thing. Blame shifting is just another weapon in the cheater’s arsenal. It can take a newly minted chump some time to figure this out, and it was very reassuring to discover through this website that every cheater uses a universal and predictable set of tactics. It turns out they are not original. They’re mere garden variety cheaters.

        • My ex actually looked me right in the face and said, “this marriage break up is all your fault.” I was so stunned that I couldn’t say anything at all, I just walked off. So at least he did one thing with honesty. He actually did his blame shifting honestly!

    • “It turns out that divorce is less a horrible ending, and more a hopeful beginning. ”

      I wish we could all know that in the beginning. I am lucky, because I was given no choice; but it would have helped to know that this is the best outcome for me, even if it feels horrible right now.

  • CL is correct about “if you have to become a Soviet spy your marriage is OVER”. I was tipped off by a “friend” that I was married to a pervert. That happened to occur when he was out of town so for 24 hours straight I did what I could searching his computer. I am not an IT whiz but managed to find plenty. He had contacted an Airbnb for a one bedroom apartment rented for a “day” in the next few days. Never had even turned on his computer before or ever searched his phone. When he returned home I asked what was going on and added “don’t lie to me. I have searched your computer and know everything. I just want to hear it from you”. He immediately folded and proceeded to tell me that the affairs had been occurring for over 35 years. I lost 8 lbs that weekend from the anxiety and facing the reality before me. I immediately went into protection mode with my finances and proceeding with separation and was divorced within 9 months. We had no children and always kept our bank accounts separated. Gee I wonder why he wanted that?? Again as I have stated before I found ChumpLady and Chump Nation within a month of the DD and you all gave me the strength to (1) know I was not crazy all this time and (2) he would never change and will be damaged goods for the rest of his life. So glad he is out of my life and total no contact is fabulous. Remarried now to a wonderful man and living a wonderful life which would have never happened without all of your support.

  • I felt horribly invasive, fearing if I discovered he was innocent, I would then be guilty of snooping.

    I had been watching the Nikita series on Netflix. I fancied myself Nikita, and even lost the weight (chump depression/anxiety caused) to match her physique! Her character, in a lighthearted but real way, inspired me to get through the nightmare.

    I had many tense moments during discovery:

    Retrieving a tracker right in front of him which if I did not get I would have lost the opportunity.

    Leaving a nice dinner with out of town guests to answer a call from the PI who then confirmed my fears of ex cheating, and then keeping calm at the dinner as if nothing had just happened.

    Two week plans of planting a tracker ‘just in case’ he did something after a vacation, which he finally did end up doing. All the time worrying he may discover the tracker.

    Intercepting a Fed Ex delivery of a large check to deposit and then withdraw 1/2 to my own account before he discovered, all while he was asking if the check was delivered.

    Opening a new credit card in his name only for him to use in place of our joint one, switching it with our joint one, paying household bills with the joint, then paying it down to zero with that Fed Ex delivered check BEFORE splitting the remainder, then removing my name from the joint credit card account.

    Meeting the PI in a parking lot in his car with blacked out windows to pay a large sum of cash (which was from ex selling a recreational toy), for his wonderful PI work. Work which he CLEARLY enjoyed. He even looked like a movie spy:-)

    And the best part! In a moment of sad sausage when I still wanted to stay together, he told me he didn’t think he would ever be able to forgive me for hiring a PI. He even made me feel BAD about it for a moment.

  • I didn’t snoop until after Dday. He left to escape my upset and went to Vegas (if this was a novel I would not dare include that detail because it is too smarmily perfect. Vegas, patron city of Cheaters.) Up until then I thought he was an honorable man and our love was something special. I did the snooping in the grip of something like insanity, and my hands shook and I had to go throw up a few times, and my brain raced along like an out of control train. Worst. Russian. Spy. Ever. The crazy thing (well one of) is that he kept his jumbo sized panties in the dresser next to my sock drawer. One opening of the wrong drawer and I’d have found his femme accessories. For a long time after I tried to untangle that: did he want me to find that and open Pandora’s box but also be honest? Was it a hidden cry for help? And then later, when things were darker: did he get off on taking a risk like that? Did he like hurting me? Up until now where I feel like he just didn’t consider me at all: I wasn’t important enough to him to merit any consideration.

    Then ensued the parade of therapists and trickle truth. Because the door that opened into my husband’s secret life was transvestitism and we lived in California, he was treated with kid gloves, and with great respect as a marginalized creature, while I was ignored. And I was too wounded and damaged to even know I needed help. Now we are in Georgia, with less political correctness and some better therapists, but I still can’t believe any of this is my life. In a lot of ways it feels like my honorable husband was murdered by a deceptive transvestite who took his place.

    Yes, my husband also uses my “snooping” as evidence of my flawed character. I know it is a reach. He’s also used the fact that I leave lights on as morally equal to his lies (“it’s all disrespect, you know, and disrespect is disrespect.”) I am not even sure snooping is the right term. To me it felt like I was clawing through the wrekage of my life trying desperately to find out what was true and what was a lie. And I needed the truth like a man in the desert needs water.

    • Up until now where I feel like he just didn’t consider me at all: I wasn’t important enough to him to merit any consideration.“ I think there’s truth in this statement.
      Are you still married & trying to get at the truth?
      I had to realize that I knew enough to leave, and I would never know it all.

      • “I will never know it all”

        That helped me a lot to move on. I just never will.

      • Hi @LimboChump:
        Yes, I am still married. He is supposedly “trying” to fix his brokeness. I want to know that I gave my marriage every chance, and this has me paralyzed. Actually, I am not completely sure why I stay. Probably about an even mix of hopefulness and cowardice.

        • Please keep an eye on the finances. While he’s contemplating fixing his brokenness he could be moving money to set up his new life.

        • Principled, I understand that you want to do the right thing, be ethical and fair. But
          a) you are causing yourself on-going harm in the meantime
          b) if he has always and consistently been turned on by dressing as a woman (which is a harmless kink in itself, it’s the lying and hiding that are highly problematic) to try to change that is harmful to him as well
          c) he had no compunctions about lying to you for a very long time. Despite understanding the difficulties stigma against his kink put him in, at what point is it not ethics to continue to be loyal to this person, but foolishness?

          HE doesn’t have you paralyzed. He is using YOUR sense of fairness to manipulate you, and YOU are letting that happen. You have choices, including separating (with a fair financial settlement) while he works out his issues. Building a life of your own. Then the two of you could decide where you want to go from there.

    • OMG, I also got the nasty lectures about how leaving lights on when I left a room was disrespectful to him!

      PrincipledLife, you gave me a lightbulb moment (pun intended). This lights on thing became an issue during the few months before D-Day (discard phase) and I found out later that he was starting the sexting with her at about the same time. He was angling to get her in bed but since she lived an hour away it took awhile for him to be “successful.”

      I was baffled that this lights left on issue was made into such a huge deal, that he was positively cruel despite my doing it much less often (I really tried to remember to shut off the lights but didn’t do it every time). You’re right: it was a moral equivalency thing. What he was doing in pursuing this woman was no more disrespectful in his mind than my leaving lights on. Asshole!

      • It is such a childish position that at first I could not believe it. Takes a while to sink in that is really the way they think. I heard my FW complaining to his therapist last week how I was a “germophobe.” This in the middle of a global pandemic! And the ironic thing is that I was mostly trying to protect him as he is at high risk (diabetes, obesity and hypertension, the covid trifecta.)

        • So you’re trying to protect him, and he’s whining like a baby.

          Sounds like there’s not much to work with here.

          Have you read Dr. Simon’s books on character? Or perhaps better yet, ‘Why Does He Do That?’ by Lundy Bancroft. HUGE eye opener for me.

          You hope he will grow and mature, be able to leave behind his childish beliefs and reactions, but that’s not how it works. He’s a grown man. Do you have any evidence of actual persistent change? That he doesn’t end up resenting you for?

  • I didn’t find out by snooping, but after Dday you bet your ass I investigated (snooped). I didn’t even bother to hide it either. He would stand over me furious while I looked for more evidence of his cheating. He raged and I laughed in his face when he tried to get righteous with me. FTN! I wouldn’t have needed to investigate if he hadn’t cheated. He had no idea my cyber security background gave me the knowledge to pull up his phone and our family computer’s entire network traffic for weeks. God he was so stupid. It wasn’t that I was dumb, I trusted him because I was supposed to be able to. Once I discovered he wasn’t trustworthy, it was pretty easy discovering the rest. I even forensics his cell phone when he threw it at me and told me I could look because nothing was on their. Stupid stupid stupid. He really thought that just because he’d erased everything it wasn’t still on there. Smdh!

  • Over a period of a couple of months, I became more and more suspicious of XW talking to an old high school friend, suddenly having more interest in hanging out with the ‘girls from work’, and having her phone password locked for the first time in 8 years together. Then, after a few of weeks of obvious discard, I got the usual “ILYBNILWY, I think we should get a divorce” by text while I was at work. Blindsided by that, I went to a therapist who told me that I needed to know with no uncertainty if my suspicions were correct before making a decision on how to proceed. So, I activated the OnStar tracking on XW’s car, looked up OM’s address on the county tax appraisal website, and watched the map in real time as XW drove to OM’s house the next time she said she was going out with the girls. Felt more like my insides were being ripped out than guilty for snooping.

    I held my tongue for another week when I got an alert that her car was somewhere it shouldn’t be right before picking up our oldest from school. That meant that our younger two were in the car with XW, so that night I asked middle son where they went with Mommy before they picked up older son at school. He said they didn’t go anywhere. When I told him I knew they went somewhere, he got wide-eyed and then started to cry. I told him he wasn’t in trouble and that I would never ask him something like that again. That was the end of my snooping, and it till makes my blood boil that XW made our kids complicit in the deception.

    Of course, XW was incredibly unoriginal when confronted by telling me that I had no right to track her. She then had OM remove the fuse so that the GPS wouldn’t work, lol.

  • We were on vacation and I couldn’t get my laptop to sign onto the hotel internet. He insisted I use his lap top because he’d been able to get onto the internet. When I opened his laptop up, tranny and gay sex interactive sites were all over. I cried, and he said that he can never trust me again, and that he wanted to go home and leave me stranded there after what I had done to him. I stayed another 7 years…

  • Another who did most of my snooping after dday. Even though I actually administered our business email, it never occurred to me to poke around in it. When I finally did, I saw all sorts of interesting things, but the one that still makes me laugh is his first email to her after, apparently, they consummated their relationship.

    The email was a picture, and that was it.

    This was the pic:

    If ever I’m tempted to go the “poor little me, abandoned in my old age, sniffle sniffle” route, that meme is all the reminder needed to snap me out of it. Might have found freedom relatively late in life, but still thankful to have found it at all.

  • I never felt the least bit bad about snooping. My ex was always shady and conflict avoidant and played dumb with the best of them.

    One day I found a letter in our outgoing mail addressed to a female friend of his. It was heavy, like it had a bunch of gift cards. He’d mentioned she was getting married but this was addressed to her at work….she supposedly lived with her fiance so not sure why he needed to send it to her at work.

    I decided to go into his email and FB just because I sensed something. I found nothing in email, but he may have deleted things.

    FB though…..I found private messages between him and another woman, an ex gf, going back our entire relationship. No smoking guns per se, but there were references to her flying in and them having dinner several years into our relationship, as well as generally flirty messages. YEARS of messages and I, his wife, wasn’t mentioned once.

    I then looked in his linked account where this ex gf had hit him up for his number because she apparently lost her phone. He gave her his work number.

    I then want into his diary where he’d written all about going to dinner, driving her to her friend’s house, etc. He never included a lot of details in his diary precisely because he worried about someone reading it.

    So I decided to ask him some fairly benign questions and see if he’d lie. I first asked if he’d been in contact with any exes and he froze, then said no. Then he started to trickle truth and claimed he was connected to said whore on LinkedIn. I asked about fb and he lied and said no. Then a back and forth began where he’d lie, then when he realized I already knew he’d change his story and bullshit more. He was so stupid. He lied about EVERYTHING then changed his story with my proof…that was all the proof I needed. I gave him the rope and he hung himself.

    A week later when I was still upset he had a tantrum where he declared that he “didn’t have to listen to this”. I attempted to have a heart to heart with him to get some things on the table….the next day he told he he wanted a divorce because HE was miserable and I just couldn’t let things go and I wanted to be miserable. If I wanted to stay married to him I had to change. He was so conflict avoidant that he’d rather go scorched earth then deal with being uncomfortable.

    In the months that followed i started to realize that he wasn’t that great of a deal. He was 20 years older, didn’t make much money, couldn’t get it up, wore a shitty black toupee, and was as phony as one gets. Once I filed for divorce he went to pieces…..he didn’t want one but was ok using the threat to bully.

    He still talks to his 5 times married whore who he hasn’t told anyone about because he can’t be seen with an Asian. He looks much older and is just a pathetic sad sausage who didn’t want a divorce.

    I’ve had a lovely bf for a couple of years who is much closer to my age. All because I just had a feeling one day and snooped.

    I am so much better off.

    Those who have nothing to hide will hide nothing.

  • I’m not much of a tech guy so the fact I discovered her deceit via electronic means is somewhat ironic. Here’s how:

    1) Find My iPhone app showed me her location and I followed her one day because I knew she wasn’t working the crazy hours she said she was working. On the day I followed her, I hung out in a wine store in the area where she was and the OG and her walked in. She made an excuse (convincingly, I must say) but that started the wheels in motion.

    2) She never figured out that our shared photos in the Cloud must be double deleted. She would send screenshots to the OG of her What’s Ap chats with her friends (they are also cheaters) and I would find them in the deleted folder. And that’s how I found inescapable proof of what her and the OG (I call them “scumbags”) were doing. D-day was July 4th, 2020.

    I am so happy I found out! Almost 5 months post D Day and almost a month since I got her out of the family home. I no longer engage with her in texting battles. Just trying to get to “meh” and seeing a lot of progress in that regard.

  • My soon to be ex husband planned the trip to the mountains to “think about his life in peace and solitude” 😀 After a year of wreckonciliation and quarterly discoveries that the relationship with his “only work collegue” is not over – I finally got up from the knees (and it was THANKS TO CHUMPLADY, I swear to God – she opened my eyes!) and started to fight back. I hired detectives who followed him to the mountains. Guess what? His solitude was interrupted by his female work colleague, kissing him! What a rude girl :DDDD
    Waiting for the divorce. Today I hate him.

  • The ex kept his phone locked in his vehicle. What I did find by looking at the phone bill were lots of questionable calls that I inquired about which led to me later finding a bill for a phone in someone else’s name. He didn’t like being questioned so he got a new phone. He didn’t know I knew about it and I’d block my number and send a lot of middle of the night texts about what a pos he was. I’m sure he thought they were for who had the number previously. Yep. He denied the phone was his at the end too. I wouldn’t answer his number so he finally called from his other phone being a bully that I won’t answer his call but would pick up for someone else. I quickly let him know I wasn’t stupid and knew it was him and his phone. Boy was he pissed.
    I found condoms in his coat, condoms in our camper, which of course belonged to someone else. Then condoms in his pants pocket as I was doing laundry. That led to his confession of prostitutes.
    A book on sexual positions hidden under a mattress in our camper which of course belonged to someone else. Don’t you remember when it was given to that person as a joke? The camper was parked elsewhere for a couple of years which was one place he met his whatever’s.
    Waivers signed by a girl spending weekends with him at the track after I subpoenaed those records.
    After six years, he’s had me tied up legally since last year. We were finally supposed to have the beginning of our trial today but courts closed a couple of days ago due to an outbreak. He took it upon himself to pay whatever he wants for support for the last 8 months. When the attorneys set a motion for a new date which now is April of next year, mine told his that he needed to pay the arrears. So my best find was that today he deposited most of the money he owes.

  • I got the I love you but I am not in love with you speech intertwined with I never really loved you and denial there was anyone else. I reluctantly agreed to separate, as we started couples therapy and told the two teenaged sons. (She completely lied to them) My sister was having a big birthday bash soon and agreed to attend with me. I picked her up at her mother’s and at the party she soon got plastered and I had to take her back. On the short drive home her phone kept going off while she had passed out. I finally pulled over and took her phone out of her purse. A long string of sappy text messages from her non existent lover. I wrote down the number and first name and drove her home.
    That night I searched through internet to try to connect the number to a name. No luck.
    It was my week to stay home with the kids. She came back on Sunday, I said nothing and drove off in the car see had been using. Monday morning I head to work, but reach down into the door pocket for a tissue- and found a list my wife had made for herself listing all the items she was taking to a cheap motel Saturday night.(lube, Jack Daniels, clothes for church the next morning) My heart stopped. Such a fucking POS! After a morning appointment, I drove home and discovered her overnight bag with all the aforementioned items and a printed out email giving me her APs email address, name and some disgusting comments. I took a picture with my phone and put everything back.
    We had a scheduled therapy session in a couple days. I let her start in with how I was a poor communicator, blah, blah, blah. The therapist looked at me to respond. I pulled out her tiny note and read it out loud. She turned a crimson red and squeeked out, “That doesn’t prove anything!” Then I took out a copy of her email and read that out loud. She turned ashen and looked like she was going to faint. The therapist stood up and grabbed her shoulders to keep her from falling out of her chair. My STBXW’s world came crashing down. Her carefully cultivated image as the sparkly kindergarten teacher turned out be a Jesus cheater instead. The therapist babbled a few words about a future appointment. (which never happened)
    I later made some faked phone calls and her AP was a coworker. Future snooping on an unlocked computer uncovered a trove of emails revealing a plan to cheat me out of our house with collusion of a mortgage broker friend, her plans for attorneys , etc. Eventually I got a restraining order because of DV and she was removed from the house. While packing up her clothes I found more printed out emails (stupid, I know) proving she had a second co worker affair before this one. I have kept knowledge of that affair in my back pocket for future use. She was spiteful in negotiating the divorce settlement, refusing to let me buy her out of the house so our kids could finish school there. Ultimately, the poor market forced her hand. Since the divorce I have remarried and am currently sitting in front of my fireplace with my loving wife in our home in Napa.
    She is still single.

  • Oh, where do I begin…. I shall save the “best” for a separate UBT post when I have the energy, lol. But for today’s challenge…

    Way back in 2007, I was nursing my 4-month old, when I happened to stumble across my STBX’s email account open on my computer. (He had just left on another business trip that day and needed to use my computer as there was some issue with his). Lo and behold I found emails containing his membership to a dating site, listing himself as 10 years younger than he actually was, with NO CHILDREN (reading this as I was nursing our child was a literal knife in my chest), and rated himself as 8 out of 9 on a scale of attractiveness. In addition, I discovered literally HUNDREDS of emails to and from women from multiple dating sites that he had been meeting up with / f#cking behind my back. Oh, and the most painful ones were ones that he had written back to these women who were annoyed / concerned that he had ghosted them for a few days… the days when I was in the hospital following the birth of our child… Here’s just one lovely example:

    “I apologize for disappearing like that. Something happened in my life
    and it took all of my life/time/energy to deal with it. I really don’t want
    to go into all of the details. I do want you to know that my
    disappearing had nothing to do with you, my desire to get to know
    you or anything like that. I hope that one evening we can sit down in
    a pub together and I can tell you all about this and myself, so
    whether or not we ever connect, you can know that I really am the
    person you though you were getting to know.”

    SUCH a piece of work.

    When I confronted him about everything, wanna guess the response? Yep…. “How DARE you break into my email account!!!” (that he so conveniently left logged into on my computer…)

    So so so much more, but I’ll leave it at that for now.

    • Oh wow. Hospital-childbirth-cheaters deserve a special kind of hell. I’m so sorry, I feel sick with empathy for you. I hope that makes sense. Hug your sweet baby and be the amazing sane and stable parent.

  • Former Nice Guy assumed that I wasn’t inquisitive, but I had seen a snippet of a curious gmail and we all had observed marked behavioral changes. I’m fine with investigating if the person’s behavior is unusual and there are indications of gaslighting – we all have a right to privacy, but not secrecy.

    I discovered all of their exchanges, including their mutual fantasies about torturing-murdering women, physically abusing me and some nausea inducing images (along with an unsolicited image that Batsh*t Crazy sent of her adolescent daughter – the child was clothed but imo it was an invasion of her child’s privacy by sending her photo to some creep/my ex). I screenshotted everything I could and sent it to two phones that he had no access to.

    Once I provided his family evidence of his behavior, he commenced to a toddleresque tantrum, then sank into sad sausage-ness while his father claimed that I had no right to look through his phone (carefully avoiding any criticism of his son’s behavior) and his mother sat silent through it all. I’ve come to terms with the reality that, as far as both his family and him are concerned, image management is prioritized above everything.

    Batshit Crazy also had some unpleasant personal and professional repercussions when some of her cruel statements about various individuals were sent to her employer, along with relatives. I suggest securing and screenshotting every bit of evidence that you safely can get before confronting/dumping and put it somewhere that the cheater can’t access it.

    • I hope Bat Shit’s daughter’s father has been clued in on his daughter’s sicko mother.

      • He was; at the time, I couldn’t, and still can’t, imagine what kind of parent sends a photo of her daughter to a man she’s trading torture ‘fantasies’ with.

        My ex is a revolting piece of work, but BC’s behavior demonstrated how damaging and unstable she is.

  • I gave myself a guilt trip as I got up the nerve to go full-out KGB on my ex-wife. I thought to myself, what kind of weird paranoid stalking husband would do this?

    I used my professional skills, hacked her email, and uncovered the whole long-term affair with a married guy.

    Thank goodness I did, it accelerated the process of getting out.

  • His personal credit card statement for the month AFTER I caught him and he promised to stop, get into therapy and work on our 34+ year marriage, containing:
    – six different women’s initials next to various restaurant and hotel and retail charges (yeah, he was a little OCD)
    – he shopped at Victoria’s Secret the day before my birthday… I got a birthday card with a promise to clean my car for me
    – he shopped at Petco and put one of his (two) stripper girlfriends’ initials by the charge… buying collars and leashes?? I don’t know and don’t want to know.

  • For those of you who’ve been on CL for awhile, I’m sure I’ve mentioned before:

    First incident: I see a text come into her phone of 2 teen girls that I did not recognize, and could vaguely see some of the text message w/the words “love you” and “miss you.” Stupid/gullible me, I thought the pic was from a girlfriend of hers who was just sharing a pic of her kids, and little did I know that it was her AP sharing a pic of his daughters to my XW.

    Second incident: youngest daughter found a tattoo on the ring finger of the XW. What was the tattoo of: the name of her AP tattoed underneath where the wedding finger sat. XW already confided a few days earlier (of course during a family vacation) that she cheated, but stupid/gullible me, for me to find out about the tattoo a few days later, and realize that my 2 kids found out about the tattoo the same day, was just surreal. I still have no idea how long the XW was hiding that tattoo from me (her 1st tat, so how would I have known she wanted a tat).

    Oh well…

    Ironically, today would’ve been my 21st anniversary w/her. So glad this treasanous person is out of my life. Now, if she could just leave the earth ASAP. Haha.

  • I forgot I’d have to close his computer screen before the kids got on for school. I was so unaware about everything. He was looking at females from other countries which puzzled me because it was hard for him to cross the state line.
    The one search that cracks me up was -anal squirts. My first thought was that it’s called diarrhea you idiot. Back to being unaware because I knew he had issues and would often jump up trotting to the bathroom especially from bed and at times wasn’t quick enough. I learned his prefers anal and that’s a result. He also began man grooming. I never complained about hair and believe me it not not make it look better or bigger. I also never asked if he was gay and I don’t know or care if he is. He said he wasn’t out of the blue once but accused me of it frequently. I wondered if he is hiding that part and that’s why he’s so angry but its a moot point. He’s just terminally mean and angry.

  • It is unbelievable to read through all of these discovery stories. And to think if we did not snoop, where would we all be today? Still stuck in a mirage of a marriage? While discovery of my exH’s affairs shattered my world at the time, I am so glad I did what I did in order to break free and start creating an authentic life.

    I discovered my exH’s most recent affair while scrolling through his Instagram page. I was looking on his friends list, found someone I did not recognize, and reviewed her (public!) profile. She lived out of the country at the time (6000 miles away), yet had posted pictures taken in the city where I lived. One was at the park across the street from my flat, one was taken from the rooftop of the building where I lived captioned “room with a view,” and another was at my dining room table eating candy my exH had tried to give me – the only issue was that it was a candy I never liked, which he should have known after 20 years together. At that time, I still did not think I had enough to confront him. My exH was booked to go on a last minute trip to her home country two days later (he told me it was for business), and I snooped through his packed bag when he left for work that morning. In the bottom of the bag I found a Tiffany ring, a hand written love note, and a bag of candy he was taking to her for her birthday. When I confronted him, of course he was pissed I went through his bag. What followed was three weeks of wreckonciliation in which he insisted it was just something that happened due to the bad state of our marriage (??), and he just liked the way she made him feel.

    That evening he left for his trip anyway (stupid), and I went back to the flat with friends. We explored the flat to see if we could find anything else. On his Apple watch, I found he was tracking his OW on “Find My iPhone” and also e-mails in which he had communicated with a solicitor about trying to figure out how to get divorced as quickly as possible as he and his wife were amicable and had agreed to a 50/50 split. Talk about shocking.

    After I came to my senses and filed for divorce three weeks later, I accidentally went on to find his subscription to Tinder Plus that had been active at least two years previous. I was deleting his Apple ID from our Apple TV when I found it. This lead me to snoop some more in which I discovered multiple credit card charges for travel I had no idea about going back the past two years – including train tickets for a secret “day trip” literally the day he flied back into the city after giving the eulogy at my grandmother’s funeral. I stopped snooping at that point. I had seen enough to know any word that came out of his mouth or written/texted was lies, lies, lies. Now I’m on my way to meh. Hopefully Tuesday comes soon.

    • Would have love to see the expression on his face had you quietly taken the Tiffany ring out of his suitcase and all he had to present her with was a stupid bag of candy.

  • It makes me sick to remember but he was keeping track of how often he and I had sex compared to how often he with taking care of himself- with others. He had a list of women’s names along with what types of services they had provided him. I didn’t figure out all of the abbreviations and stopped looking at that point.

    He thought he had cleared his tracks. But google kept track of every single list he made, so I could look up the date and see what that list said. He didn’t realize his google notes app connected to his gmail account. He gave me the password to his email and told me to look, there would be nothing! Haha that was the end

  • DDay 2012, found irrefutable proof of 1994/95 affair. Turns out if you don’t delete your trash, emails remain. He finally had to “confess”.

    Fast forward to 2015…….obviously no trust, so snoop on iPhone repeatedly. Found a “welcome to Instagram” message. Handle? Dewittewank–The White Masturbator. Asshat–deny, deny, deny.

    Pretty much downhill from there until April 2017, text message meant for HoWorker (now HoWife) sent to myself, DD24, DS21, backstabbing former BF and her two children.

    Been NC since October 2018, but for some reason, Asshat started following me on Twitter last week. Blocked.

  • I never felt guilty once for my super sleuthing. Some ppl don’t want to know….. I DID. After 31 yrs of marriage, there were 2 Ddays in which he “volunteered” info to clear his conscience. Seems like alot of the disordered dicks do this. I believe he never thought divorce would happen to him. One day we were simply talking about stuff, kids etc and he decided to lay another bombshell on me about his activities. I dont care if anyone thinks porn is OK, Im not a prude but when he told me he had been addicted his whole life after being exposed at 10 yo. He was a 60 yo man and I think my shock was how he had been so good at hiding it for our whole marriage. Something in me snapped and I decided god only know what all he has really done betraying me. I too discovered the viagra, creams, etc and trust me none of these were used on me. He traveled with his job (after retirement) and so I dug through his bags, I looked at all of our finances, I would go through his truck (usually when he was in the shower) and I found tons and tons of things he had done or was doing. Meals, drinks, hotels, the mountain of secrets was endless. I couldnt help myself but look. I wanted to know everything I could find out so I could leave and always feel justified for exposing him. Once I served him, the war was on. He couldnt compete with me when it came to investigating his nasty life. He was a walk on water kinda guy but not after I was done with him. Its been 5 yrs since divorce and he still can barely look at me when there are family gatherings with the grown kids and grandkids. I think he got off on getting away with everything … until he didnt. A couple times I got into his attache case and dumped all the viagra out in the toilet and squeezed all the lubricant out and left it empty. He never mentioned it to me after his trip. LOL. NEVER believe these people, the level of lying they are capable of is incredible. Yes, I was triggered alot but I live in peace knowing I turned over every rock I could before the divorce. This man seriously has NO CONSCIENCE. To act like a great husband, dad, son, friend, is mental illness to pull of the charade for over 3 decades. BTW Im not a stupid person who had my head in the sand ever, he was just that good. But I beat him at his own game!!

    • “Its been 5 yrs since divorce and he still can barely look at me when there are family gatherings with the grown kids and grandkids.”

      Same with my ex FW. Can’t look me in the eyes. Usually mumbles a hi, then finds a reason to walk away. Whore, and I usually exchange a couple pleasantries and move on.

      Next time I will (likely) see them is at our granddaughters college graduation; if he goes. My daughter in law so far hasn’t spoken to them in a little over two years after he and whore blew up their relationship with their lies.

  • We had been given an artists drawing from one of his OWs years prior. It was a girl that looked like her. She had gotten two delivered, one by accident. We framed it and hung it as you came in our front door.

    After I left him, I snooped on her Facebook (I thought the affair had ended 5 years prior and had blocked her then. I had just found out it went on for another 3 or more years, and they were still together when our son was born, then a year later when we got married. She reportedly left him numerous times because of his controlling behaviour and drama. Anyway, there was her drawing, framed, above her bed, on her Facebook page.

    I burned it. Boy was that a sin punishable by death. I actually recorded the conversation, 15 minutes in, as it was so batshit crazy. It went for another 15 minutes. The accusations!! I was calm AF he was a caged animal. I played that recording repeatedly as I endured emotional flashbacks and relinquished the trauma bond. I also played it to people who didn’t believe me about his abuse. It was a gift for sure.

    Then the one I caught him with when I left him. Her car photographed in our driveway while I was in Europe for work (seperated by now but bird nesting at our home). Her name and number on a receipt from 6 months earlier when we were still together.

    So I looked up the car rego and found her name and address. Didn’t use address or phone number but boy I wanted to, she took out a trespass order on me just in case. Looked up her Insta- there she was wearing MY hat, my hat that I never wore but was left out in lounge when I returned from Europe! Also saw her a year prior (he’d denied the affair then and even a year before that but I knew all along, should have trusted my gut). There she was wearing MY favourite bra set! I looked up our credit card bills did the forensics. Countless purchases were inflated compared to what came home to me. He was buying me a set and her a set, two for one type thing. Countless other purchases for plus size lingerie sites (I’m not plus size but she is).

    Apparently I was a troll for doing these basic forensics. Apparently SHE needed to be protected from me but I was allowed none when she was sleeping in my bed wearing my things FOR FUCKING YEARS! I was a troll for seeking closure. At least I got closure. What I found was only the tip of the iceberg. His lies were immense. She’s welcome to him. Actually did use the phone number once to let her know that. Also regularly signed her up for unsavoury mailing lists. So maybe I’m a little bit troll ????????

  • Mine snooped on me!

    We were at a remote fly fishing place, and I’d asked him a fishing-related question (fishing related!!!). Instead of answering it like a decent person, he flew into a rage, complaining that I was acting as if I’d never fished before.

    Angry, I opened a word doc on my computer to rant. Mostly I just wrote that this is his happy place but that I don’t like it. I stopped typing to go to the outhouse/bathroom. While I was gone, he entered the passcode on my computer (because I thought we had NO secrets and willingly had given it to him), and he read my rant.

    Later he told me that after reading that, he knew he couldn’t stay married. You see, I didn’t like fly fishing enough. Mind you, I was on this trip that involved a 13-hour drive and fishing 8 hours a day. (I realize this reveals the degree to which I catered to him and made my own needs very, very small).

    Anyway, you can’t make this up. Oh, and he seemed to think it justified his affair. The OW apparently loves to fish. He taught her! And she got a massive, matching fish tattoo (that I’ve already written about here). True love indeed!

    It all feels so awful.

    • Oh Spinach,

      That’s awful, and also so telling! For him to pretend to base such a huge thing on fishing? Good Grief.

      My guess is you’ll find beautiful streams out there.

    • That is awful, Spinach. But I have to tell you, every time you mention the giant stupid fish tattoo, I chuckle a little in evil glee. Because when this relationship implodes (and it will), BOY is that tattoo going to be a turn-off to future f*ckbuddies. And it’s going to be even harder and more painful to erase…. I love it. It’s like a little, delightful down payment from Karma, that tattoo….

      • Okupin,

        Haha!! Omg! Thanks for the image of what’s in store for them.

        Tattoo removal sounds painful indeed, especially on sensitive inner-thigh skin.

        Of all the regrets I have in life, getting a massive fish tattoo is, thankfully, not one of them.

  • First DDay was a result of snooping through a child tracker app on his phone. After a long time of suspicions (he’s an impeccable liar) I heard him talking to his AP (howorker) about how I might be onto him and how he needs to lay low.

    Second Dday happened after I got hold of his phone bills. My gut told me it was more than one AP. I found numbers of several other APs, hotel numbers and escorts.

    Initially he was contrite but when the fake reconciliation was over he was indignant about me going through his phone and changed his passwords claiming the need for privacy.

  • First one I was suspicious. Like others his phone was never left unattended. Took it to the bathroom with him etc. He was on it, more noticeably, all the time. He left it lying so I looked. Texts from our tenant saying she missed him and couldn’t wait to see him…. One’s from when he was away with work in Iceland. He sent her pictures of the view etc.
    I confront him. He tries to wriggle. I had to leave for work but didn’t go to work, went to confront her instead in her workplace as told her she was evicted.

    A few days later I’m on the computer I check his emails. Nothing much but in the deleted items an email he’s sent to himself from another account of his. It was boarding passes for him and another name I didn’t recognise to fly to Berlin when he said he was in Iceland.
    I googled the name. She came up on Twitter with a link to her Instagram account I. I clicked. It was open to the public. Photos of them in Berlin. Getting drunk. Also at a works bbq. On a bus together looking loved up. So he wasn’t just cheating on me once but twice simultaneously. I ended up eventually telling the 1st OW . Turns out they’d been to Berlin too… Again when I thought he was working. Juggling 3 of us all living in a 2 mile radius. He must,ve thought he was so clever.

    I kept quiet that I knew about the second until he tried to smarm me and smooth it over for sake of kids etc. I sat there listening to him spout his drivel. Pretending to be a meek chump.
    Next day I confronted OW2 at the train station with my baby in her pram (they worked together so I knew when her shift started) The look on her face! She didn’t even know who I was as apparently we’d been split for “a long time” and is given them my blessing to go to Berlin together. I then grassed them in to their boss whilst she was commuting in on the train!

    Telling the 1st OW about the 2nd OW was priceless. Traumatic and stupefying at the same time. I couldn’t believe his entitled arrogance and twisting lies. OW#1 then tells me things that I’d been suspicious of for years. It was insane. I’d been with a pathological lying sociopath for 21 years! It scared me, along with the reslisation all that he was capable off.

  • After I said I wanted a divorce, I did some snooping (I already knew about the soul mate, but I was curious). In his desk, I found a numbered list of all the things I had done wrong–over 100 complaints going back years. Some of them included the well known sins of forgetting to buy taco sauce and not mailing a magazine subscription card. I also found detailed plans to divorce me dated from six months earlier–fiscal plans outlining everything he needed to secure a comfortable future for himself. He had already picked out the furniture he wanted to take, etc.

    Nonetheless, he had claimed to be gob-smacked by my request for a divorce since it was such a cruel action and something he would never do to me. Apparently, what he was really gob-smacked by was the realization that I was initiating a divorce before he had completely figured out how to get a better deal for himself.

    The snooping was weirdly reassuring. It demonstrated that all the horrible things that had been happening the past few months were not accidents. He was hyped up by his plans to divorce me, desire to pin the soul mate down (she appeared to have dumped him about the same time I did), fear he wouldn’t be able to pull off his plans, elated by his dreams for the future, and generally a mess. He had been taking it out on me.

    I never told him I snooped. Being better prepared for everything was my best tactic during the divorce and custody negotiations.

    • Eilonwy,

      First, I can’t imagine the pain of coming across that list. I hope you have your own tally of all the shitty things he’s done and said, which would include keeping a stupid list like that in his desk. I wonder if he wanted you to find it. So sadistic!

      I can see how the snooping was reassuring. I mean, it’s tangible evidence. It explains a lot. We know we aren’t imagining things.

      I shivered when I read this line: “He had already picked out the furniture he wanted to take, etc.”

      Mine, too, had a list at the ready of all the furniture he wanted. I knew then how he must have been planning his escape for a while. That’s the part that really freaks me out—being kept in the dark while this person you thought you knew and trusted was scheming to leave.

      We did a financial plan, too, during his multi-year affair. He wanted to not only lock down the OW but also make sure his finances were in order. Of course, I was in the dark. I thought we were making sure we had enough $$ to retire.

      As has been noted on this site many times, these cheaters are all so curiously similar.

    • Ha, Taco Sauce.

      My worst sin evidently was running out of salt. I stood and listened to a scream fest about how worthless I am for running out of salt “WHO RUNS OUT OF SALT” “GO BUY 10 BOXES OF SALT, AND I WANT TO SEE THEM TONIGHT” Sadly, I was so confused and scared, I went and bought the salt. There were other scream fests; but that one is the one I think about most often. Both funny and sad. CL posted a story about a lady that was chased around the house with a pickle. It brought back that memory and caused me to laugh and laugh.

      When I left the marriage house after the divorce was final, I left 9 boxes of salt in the cabinet. His mother moved in the marriage house. I wonder how he explained those 9 boxes of salt.

  • I found out when his phone chimed with a text from Toothless the White Trash Whore. After pulling deleted texts and emails off his phone I discovered that he’d been living a whole other life. They had been together for over a year-were engaged and planning their wedding, he introduced her and referred to her as his wife…all while he was playing happy home and perfect family man with me. I had no clue. He even waxed poetic about what a wonderful mom she would be to their child when she thought she was pregnant. (Umm…he had a vasectomy 15 years ago.) I woke him up and confronted him – asked him about the affair, being engaged and giving her a ring. His response…don’t worry it’s not as nice as yours. ????

  • I found out by accident, but this did not stop him from accusing me of being the most horrid person on earth for snooping in his email. He had given me access to the email account a while back and I was searching for an email from him sister. All these emails came up from and to a woman with the same name in his sent folder. Apparently he had deleted all his evidence but it kept all the sent emails. That’s how I found out about his two plus year adultery with a single mother. Yet he made it seem like my looking in the email account he had given me free access to, for an email from his sister, was the crime of the century. I was somehow snooping. When I stumbled on adultery he had tried to erase, it was my fault. These men are pathetic and all the same.

    • They are, but I can’t imagine anyone but his family perhaps, if they are really stupid would buy that excuse.

      I would love to hear them tell that story to a judge. I mean I get that many times adultery doesn’t matter in a settlement, but still it would be funny.

      • No, by the providence of God, his OW actually did have the same name as his sister. Otherwise I would never have accidently stumbled upon their emails.

        • Oh, I just meant blaming you for investigating for the problem instead of him cheating.

  • He was acting strange one night and said he needed to go out — I had gotten home early from work. He tossed a crumpled piece of paper in the trash which I retrieved. It was$300 for Western Union to send cash.

    I snooped to find out why and came across receipts for Victoria’s Secret and New York clothing.

  • We lived in Florida. He was working at a “temporary” job in California. To get me to agree to his working across the country, he promised to go home every weekend.
    The second week he was there, he said he had to go visit his dad in North Carolina. He said he was there 2 nights.
    Something bothered me about his story because he never visited his dad for more than one night.
    I checked his flights on the airline website. He was in Atlanta the second night.
    I checked his cell phone records since we had a shared account. He was in Atlanta. He had neglected to call me and did not answer when I called him that night.
    I confronted him in “our” counselor’s office after I had told my pastor. Former husband was an elder in our church denomination.
    He was completely insulted and indignant that I had snooped into “his business” and violated his privacy. According to him, I had no right to look into his airline and phone records.
    He said he had been in Atlanta to act as a medical surrogate for a colleague. I guess he is pretty good at coming up with unique stories. He has lots of experience with lying. He conveniently could not give me any more information because of medical confidentiality. (He is a physician.) Sure. He said he did not tell me about his trip because I wouldn’t understand. He was right about that — I didn’t understand. I don’t know, but based on his subsequent behavior, I don’t believe he was in Atlanta to act as a medical surrogate in the conventional sense of the word. At the least he lied and deceived me.
    Because he was only in our home for less than a day every 2 weeks, it was difficult to get any concrete evidence. His car stayed parked at the airport whenever he was away.
    Eventually he was stupid enough to use our joint credit card account to buy a plane ticket for his shack up. Her name was listed right there on the online credit card transaction. At this point he was working at another “temporary” job in Virginia.
    My lawyer advised me not to tell him that I knew about the plane ticket and shack up name because we were negotiating a settlement, and she wanted him to agree to a better deal for me because he thought our kids had no idea. He had told them he would “take care” of me. His mistake!
    After the divorce was final, my son told him that we all knew what had been going on. He actually told my 35 year old son that the shack up was living in his house because she was renting a room from him!
    One of his stated reasons for wanting to leave me was that he said I never would trust him again. Imagine that. I knew he was a lying cheater, and he thinks I didn’t trust him! So it’s my fault he had to leave.

    • Oh I got this version from my cheater, “I wanted to come back home, but I knew you would never forgive me.”

  • I just started reading all your stories. I am amazed how similar some of our stories are. I thought in the early days, mine was a unique situation! Are there really this many weirdos out there? I never had a reason to snoop until he started acting so darn strange. It was after he basically abandoned me after leaving on a business trip. And then I snooped. I tore the computers apart and found out all his emails downloaded. I had a bit of a twist and it disturbed me. There was evidence of voyeurism, exhibitionism, group sex, naked online profiles for the last 10 years, liaisons with a married women who was naked on the other side of a webcam, women pics filed like baseball cards, etc. Courting women while we were on vacation, basically interviewing for my replacement. My mind was blown! I could not believe how dang clueless I had been. I trusted. I confronted him via email. He has never really acknowledged any of it. I can’t mourn what I never had. Snooping made it easier for me to walk away. He was ready to make it my responsibility, and the snooping showed me what was really going on.

  • I found the OW Instagram where she posted sappy loving text messages To her from my X husband while we were still married. I told x, you can tell her you love her but you can’t even say you love me. He say -I don’t love her! I said – tell her that! His shock was priceless when I finally told him everything she posted on Instagram for the world to see. He was like- anything you can tell me about this incident would be appreciated. Haha! I’ll bet. She just cost you everything giving me the proof of your affair!

      • Yes I was! And I got everything. I got the house and all contents. Only thing the decree said was I had to give him his personal possessions, and half the joint bank account. He never came and got anything and never asked for any of the money. Which was under $500 anyway.

        The most beautiful thing I ever read was the discovery questions my lawyer sent to his. When he read those it was all over. It was questions about all the incidents in the Instagram posts I have printed and saved. All the vacations and gifts, she was posting this on the internet for the world to see. After a few questions in mediation, her account was made private. I still did not tell him about the Instagram for about. 6 more months. He just did not know how I knew these things in mediation. I guess he went to her saying how does fairytale know about this? She goes huh I don’t know. But when I told him, the shit hit the fan and I saw she was deleting posts. He did not even know, was asking me her Instagram account name. I said , you didn’t know she was posting your personal life on the internet?

        I hope that tarnished gold plated pussy was worth it all.

  • I didn’t snoop, but it was the I-slept-in-my-(small)-car-in-February-in-CT story (????), when I caught him rolling up our driveway at 5:23 a.m., that found me filing paperwork at the courthouse that morning

  • Yes, way past DD, while settling through separation (????????), I had the opportunity to open up their phone. Something I would have never thought I would have to, showing just how entirely clueless I was on their true character.
    I found kilometres of lies, from the relatives and connections (all in it, even if this was denied many time: boom, proof!), many secret trips, sexting, secret social media accounts (having mine blocked from, and from a relative’s as well: how convenient to showcase everything PUBLICLY right under your nose) with MANY other women on it (????????), oh, and the perfect family with my existence completely erased from the photos on said phone. Yep, a decade and a half of dedication that meant nothing.
    And yes, they were outraged I violated sacrosanct phone. Regardless of, let’s say, my sexual health, my sanity, my wellbeing, the money in the bank, etc. Oh, lese majesty… “It is like a dairy” was the lecture I received on the matter. And also an attempt to reverse the blame, since I was evading answering the pressing (and threatening) question on if I had been holding the phone, so I must be lying…
    It was a good deed for my sanity.

  • Mr. Sparkles gaslighted me to no end. He would deny the truth that was in front of him with the phone location history on. One day he lied he was going on a work writing retreat and would sleep away. I snooped and found out the lie. I waited for him to return and asked for evidence there was a retreat, he dared me to call his boss. I waited a day and asked if he still dared me, of course he still thought I was going to eat shit sandwiches and would never call. I called the boss and asked if there’d been a writing retreat and there hadn’t been any. I confronted him with the truth and he denied it but I was done. On a later occasion I went to collect my personal belongings from the house and found OW’s panties in the bedroom his indignation tickled me.
    “Lastly, (my confession) – for the things you found in my satchel (yes, i got those items on purpose) all i wanted was to see if you will go through my things without asking for permission and you did. Im not angry but im sad that you used to say you don’t want people who do not respect other people’s things. And if i changed you to be this person, then im really sorry and forgive me. Going through people’s stuff without asking even if you have a great relationship, is wrong. May my sins not tarnish and change you. You are a great person and God loves you very much.”
    I made sure I packed up everything and went nc.

    • ForgivenChump,

      This is terrible. He’s terrible. Such condescension. “May my sins not tarnish and change you. You are a great person and God loves you very much.”

      Also, what the hell is this? A faux apology and insult wrapped into one: “And if i changed you to be this person, then im really sorry and forgive me.”

      Your snooping was just as bad, no WORSE, than his screwing around. This is their thinking. Fucking false equivalence.

      Glad you went NC.

      • The lie in the “confession ” was hilariously sad. Where would he find used women’s panties and personal toiletries to set a trap for me? Why would he be setting a trap to establish my respect/ lack of respect for his privacy using the same evidence that reinforced the “suspicion” that he was cheating? Why wouldn’t he spend that energy actually proving he’s not cheating rather than setting traps for me. I told him not to further insult me with more lies and to stop making a fool of himself with such ridiculous lies. To which he responded, “I can see you haven’t forgiven me.” He’s insufferable. So grateful to be narc-free.

  • Dumbass upgraded to an iPhone XS when it came out. It’s much easier to take accidental screenshots when holding the phone. There were a ton of deleted photos found on the shared iPad’s iPhoto library that was synced to his phone of conversations between the two of them (no sexts or anything but enough to figure out what was going on), really lame gushy memes that I might let slide if he were 16 and not 40, and Google Map directions to places they were gonna meet vs places he told me he was going to go. So.Much.Stuff. He was livid that I “snooped” but…it was the family iPad??

    • Yep, the deleted photos from the XS is how i found out as well. Oh, also the Find My Phone Ap. Busted them in broad daylight. I think she was snapchatting the photos of What’s Ap convos with her girlfriends about cheating and me getting close. That provided undeniable proof.

  • CN, any advice or suggestions on how to go about hiring a PI for my brother. I have very limited info on him.

  • The best part of snooping came after I had filed for divorce. He was so paranoid trying to cover his f’d up tracks of living his double life. Most devine intervention helped me uncover enough crap to take him to the cleaners. He had been an investigator for PD so I knew alot of the tactics he used to find out information. I was a self appointed investigator by association. He would accuse me of going through HIS stuff – Yep I did and his lies came home to haunt him. The stories he could make up just make me laugh now as I think back on that horrible time.

    The biggest and scariest thing I uncovered was that during our divorce he had increased my life insurance policy. We had been paying into it for over 25 years. My amount was minimal and when I called to cancel the auto deduction I inquired what it was worth. The agent informed me that FW had recently raised MY amount and it was significant!!! I changed locks AGAIN, alerted friends and family, and at the right moment i confronted him with it. Long story short I ended up getting our home and he couldnt get away fast enough, God only knows what he was planning to do with that one …..

    • That’s so scary, Fireball!! I’m glad you got safely away from the horrible person.

  • Extremely triggering to read all these posts. I could’ve written any and all of these.

    There was one particular thing I caught by snooping in his email that still makes me kick myself in the head every day. I am so mad at myself why I didn’t pursue it further when I saw it.

    Two years before D-day, I saw emails in my STBX’s account for invoices from a B&B every time he was working out of town. By then, he had stayed at that B&B probably 10 times in 6 months (a week at a time). Checked the name of the B&B online and didn’t see a website for it. It wasn’t advertised anywhere. Stupid me, I asked him about it. He said his employer didn’t want him to stay at hotels anymore for business trips because they had contracted with a local B&B for better rates. I believed him.

    The thing is, the rates were not cheaper than hotels. And the invoices didn’t look completely legit. Long story short, 2.5 years later, I found out the “B&B” was AP’s house, and they were living life as a family with her 2 children. And getting reimbursed by his employer for staying there! I can feel my heart pounding in my head as I write this.

    • Please don’t kick yourself in the head about this anymore. Not one person who read this, even in this audience, could’ve predicted how your story was going to end. They invoiced his employer for their affair?!?! No way could you have figured that one out.

      • FYI, thank you for replying. I have read my post over and over again, still shocked that my husband of 22 yrs could have done that. The pain is fresh again (I’m 6 months post-D-day) but your reply makes me feel uncrazy. That is huge. Thank you.

        • You don’t need to kick yourself because his lying arrangement was perfectly possible. Many companies now (and in the past) have similar arrangements with B&Bs and Airbnbs. Before Airbnb, my then employer paid for me to stay in a private house during my work period.

          Also, many employers apparently pay the same or even more for such arrangements. This is because they get discounts on already incurred costs at the end of the year, based on the volume of business.

          So no, you weren’t stupid to believe his story, it was perfectly plausible.

          Don’t kick yourself for being a good human being. Good luck!

  • I never snooped. My ex had started to claim needing to go into work at odd, random times. At one point, we were curled up, watching a movie on a Saturday when he suddenly announced he needed to pop into work once again. When he left, I knew he’d be gone for several hours. I called a friend who advised me to drive to his work and see if he was actually there. But by then I just didn’t want to. His behavior towards me had become unacceptable and I didn’t really feel like I needed that additional proof that he was an asshole. I did learn a few things by accident though. Dumbass didn’t remember was that we’d signed up for an identity theft protection service through my work benefits, and that the statements of activity came to me. I found out that he had changed his address, and was hiding several credit cards from me. Right there on the screen I got to see that the supposed work trip he took with a twenty-years-younger female coworker was paid for by one of his secret credit cards.

  • This is my third time around…
    I found copious amounts of gay porn and video chats..
    But it’s “not cheating!” and it’s also “not really him.”
    Who he is in person is what counts…
    funny, I always thought who you were in private/when you thought no one was looking is who you really are.

    Now comes the begging, pleading, guilting… “We’re stronger than this! We’re better than this! Think of our lives! Our kids! Our future!”

    Only 2 days in, and already I almost feel bad for him. Help me chump nation!!
    How can I stand my ground more firmly!??

    • Januce, you yourself aren’t stronger than your partner’s gayness, especially when somebody doesn’t even want to admit to himself what he is (gay or bisexual). Sorry.

      Also, why ‘we’? Did he tell you before you got together and had childen what he was and what his desires were? Did he tell you about his porn and gay chats? Where were you then? There’s no ‘we’, it’s only him.

      What about him having gay quickies with strangers in the toilets on his way home from work? Are you fine with them? Or quickies with whomever, whenever and wherever possible?

      He lies to himself, he lies to you, he lies to your families. .. But that’s fine because ‘that’s not real him’. Don’t you see how he takes no ownership and responsibility for himself? Don’t you see what kind of person you’re really with? This person won’t change. Is this acceptable to you? Are these lies the way you want to live in the future? Is this how you want your future to be? With this person you don’t even know, how’s perfectly fine with lying and deceiving you?

      You need to separate (if you haven’t already). He needs to go out of the house (or you need to go) and you need time on your own to decide what to do. Go as little contact as possible, at least for some time. You need good friends/ family to confide in. You certainly don’t need somebody to guilt you and continue to lie to you all day long. You already know all you need to know.


    • Januce:

      Here’s something that may help. Get on YouTube and enter “I’m from Driftwood” and you’ll be treated to a bunch of stories from gay men who finally broke free of their conventional married lives to fully embrace their sexual identity. It is like a window into sociopathy. They discard their wives (and often children) like yesterdays trash and everyone praises them for their coming-out courage. None acknowledge the pain, suffering and confusion they cause in lying to a woman for years and making her live a lie. Instead it is all a celebration of their bravery and honesty. You and your kids? Just a bus stop on the way to his glorious authenticity. And anyone who comments and raises the issue of duplicity is doxxed as a hater.
      The real issue here isn’t his sexual orientation (though it feels like it when you find out) it is that he lied and deceived you in the most fundamental way possible and is now trying to manipulate your genuine love and concern for the children and your committment to your marriage into continuing to be his beard.
      Watch the videos. Your toes will curl up in horror.

      • That is what I don’t get.

        Being gay not not absolve you of your sins. You don’t use people, I don’t care what your story is. To use a woman/man for years and then just discard them like yesterdays trash; no, that is just evil.

    • Januce, you can continue to care about this guy and wish him the best, while choosing to build a life without him, or where he is only a peripheral part.

      In the end it doesn’t matter whether he’s gay or not, whether he considers this cheating or not, etc. What matters is; is this acceptable for you?

      This is the THIRD time. He’s had his chance and his second chance. This IS who he really is. You don’t have to hate him or prove to yourself or anyone else that he’s an awful person. You just need to decide whether this relationship, the way it REALLY IS, is what you want in your life.

      (And if you have kids with him or that he’s been helping to raise, this relationship is a TERRIBLE model for them. You keep caving to what he wants. Where are your wishes and needs? Where is the MUTUAL respect and care that you want them to see, growing up?)

  • I didn’t have to snoop – we live in a small town, things came out over a number of months without my having to do any investigation. I don’t know if I am aware of everything now, but it doesn’t matter because what came out (and his lies) were enough.

    When I asked him about the final info, I asked him why he hadn’t just been honest from the start. He replied “Oh, I find that people say that they want the whole truth, but they really don’t”. Goes to show he has no understanding of either myself or our adult daughter (he didn’t want to tell her anything because “No one will tell her anything.” Yeah, not sure what planet he lives on – I insisted that he inform her before someone else did.)

    • ” “Oh, I find that people say that they want the whole truth, but they really don’t”.”

      Yes and his stellar understanding of human nature just shines. It is about control, THEY will determine what you get to know; it is their last chance to control.

  • He lent me his car one day to run errands, when mine had broken down. I was loading up groceries in the trunk when I found a leather satchel there, full of S&M toys. He knows I am not into kink at all, and they were obviously used, not new– no boxes or wrapping, for one thing.

    I asked him about the satchel when I picked him up from work later that day. He immediately assured me that he was not seeing anyone else, that they were from a previous relationship, he’d “meant to throw them away but forgot”. He then DARVO’d to deflect the obvious further questions–by immediately saying that he had left them in the trunk of his car only because he “knew I was a snoopy person” and might find them if he brought them into the house where we lived!

    Now that I am closer to Meh, I can imagine what would have happened if I had in fact been less trusting and less chumpy. What if instead of asking him about the satchel at all, I had just quietly filled it with glitter bombs to bring pizzazz to his next, er, extracurricular moment, and replaced it in the trunk? I imagine him coming home from his next “business trip” spluttering, with glitter still stuck in his hair, and my just raising an amused eyebrow like Emma Peale and pretending I have no idea what he is on about.

  • a) I found weeks of Instagram direct messages between the two of them (I’m believe there was more but she deleted them). The two that I still remember is a video of her singing happy birthday to him…in a wig and lingerie (Marilyn Monroe style). He was turning 57, and she was 42. The other were pictures of her in skimpy clothes asking if he likes his present wrapped or unwrapped. I still kind of throw up in my mouth every time I think of that one.
    b) She denied it until I showed her the video (I forwarded it to myself). First response, “How did you get that?” Second response, “It’s already over anyways. Part of me wanted you to find that.” I wish I walked away that very moment….

  • My ex-wife is in law enforcement and, at the time, was working the graveyard shift. Early one morning, around 3am, she snuck into the house, quiet as a mouse, and moved around the bedroom in the dark while I laid there, awake, watching her. She grabbed her make-up bag from the bathroom, a pair of panties from the dresser and some lube from her night stand, and she left the house as quiet as she’d entered, got in her patrol car and drove off into the night. She was screwing one of her sergeants.

    When I confronted her, she denied it and said “It’s not the way it looks.” It was EXACTLY as it looked and, at the time, it was soul-crushing! But now, I just shake my head.

    • Oops, I forgot the point to this post. I snooped after that, utilizing some modern technology, and quickly had evidence. In fact, I got far more (in detail) than I needed or bargained for – it only hurt me worse.

  • So after he told me he no longer wanted to be with me I looked at his call history and saw the repeated calls to the AP. He was infatuated with this girl as clearly evident by the call log. When I confronted him by calling her on his phone he was shocked! He then proceeded to tell me that he wanted me to find out. It’s all amusing now, but was extremely hurtful then. Now that he wants me back, he gives me his phone (which I don’t ask for), so that he can rebuilt trust. It’s weird how the tables turn. I guess he can always trust me cus I divorced him like I said I would.

  • Where to start?

    Profiles on dating sites, that were, according to cheatpants made up so he could grab profiles of women for his friend’s dating website. Say what?

    Membership sign up for a hook up site in his emails that he said was due to a pop up when he was downloading something. Yeah right, I look that stupid!

    Browser searches for swinger parties and clubs, because it was for titillation when I was out of town with a friend at a seminar.

    Facebook messages to a female colleague using similar language that he had used to endear me…oh that was to make her feel better, because she was feeling low, etc, blah blah blah.

    Facebook messages to a woman (she was a colleague’s friend apparently) organising a meet up and coffee out of town.

    Helping a female colleague to move house after she seemed to be chatting to him about extremely personal stuff, that I would not talk to my male colleagues about…

    Spending nights out at a time “drinking and partying” and not being contactable for days sometimes. Then being angry when I asked about what he was doing, etc.

    Mobile phone ringing (ringtone was person’s name) DEBBIE in the middle of the night post sexytime…who the frell is Debbie? Oh she is my friend’s girlfriend. Why would she be calling you now? Anger, let us go back to sleep, come and sleep in the bed (I slept on the floor I was so upset and chumpy, instead of kicking him straight out) He put his phone under his pillow and laid on it and made sure his laptop was close to hand.

    Herpes on his manhood…contracted when I was visiting family out of town with my dad and kids. He said I gave it to him by giving him a BJ when he had a coldsore. Hmmmm the timing was all wrong and I don’t think you can re-infect yourself with your own strain of Herpes? Maybe I am wrong?

    He only cheated the once(with Debbie who he refused to talk about and wanted to keep her as a contact on his phone in case she rang again) according to him when it all came to a head. He said he only lied because I was asking too many questions. He only lied because I distrusted him. He became angry and indignant that I invaded his privacy by snooping for evidence of his shenanigans.

  • ChumpLady, are there any studies looking at long-term outcomes for betrayed husbands who leave vs. stay? I ask because I am one, my WW had a three month EA/PA which included bringing the OM to our home for sex.

    I exposed after using VARs.

    I stayed for the kids (no, really) and I increasingly don’t like the taste of the shit sandwich. It taste, well, foul. Four years and counting after DDAY.

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