Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

She ‘Can’t Decide’ Between Us

Dear Chump Lady,

We’ve been married since 2012. Bought new home in 2014. In 2015 she acted so so happy. Turns out she was screwing a guy in Motel 6.

She told me they just needed a private place to talk. Until this guy. Five years older than my son (I’m 49. My son’s 26). Sent me pictures of her and him kissing. At the same time she was sexting with this preacher. Least I think that’s all.

I was crushed. I tore up a Books-a-Million store with his body. Went crazy. She still won’t admit to having sex with this guy “no one.” Now this past March I found out she was talking online to two more guys at the same time. One guy called me and said I shouldn’t be beating her!! I’ve never laid a hand on any woman ever. A fucking lie.

But this other guy, she said she cared about. They talked on Instagram only, supposedly. She couldn’t decide between him or me. I told her I just made her mind up for her, and packed.

In the middle, she started sobbing and supposedly had a panic attack. Begged me to stay. Now that’s where we are. She still says how sorry she is 2-3 times a week. I didn’t even get that mad this time. I feel empty inside about it. Any advice?


Dear Bobby,

Yes. Hostage situations are not relationships.

You don’t have to stay because she has a sadz. Her sorry is as fake as a jackalope with a spray tan.

Isn’t it curious how — Holy Road to Damascus! — she found her “remorse” the moment you decided to leave? When there was a consequence for HER? Your grief and anger didn’t register at all, in fact, she goaded you further into the pick me dance. But when YOU decided? When you weren’t going to be her chump? Oh, now’s she seen the error of her ways.


You don’t have to work with that. It’s a CHOICE you are making. To continue investing in a serial cheater who literally sent you pictures of herself kissing a another guy. Who has repeatedly devalued you. And maligned you to her fuckbuddies (aka, you beat her).

Would you tell a friend or your son to stay in this kind of relationship?

I get that you feel numb. You’ve got chaos exhaustion. We’ve all been there. But the worst thing you can do, Bobby, is give in to the undertow of her crazy. It’s just going to pull you further and further away from safety. You need to kick your ass into gear and start protecting yourself.

If it’s legal in your state (research this), carry a voice-activated recorder on you, or use one your phone, if you have to be around her. She’s already alleged abuse to other people. Your instinct to get out ASAP was a good one. I would not be alone with this person.

See a lawyer. DO NOT TELL HER. Just DO it. Collect your financial docs. Run a credit check on her, if possible, on yourself (double lives usually go with financial abuse), and figure out your options stat.

And be upfront with your lawyer about the Books-A-Million incident. I’m sure she’ll weaponize that too.

She wants to frighten you into staying with her, either through emotional blackmail (her “Oh shit I’ve been found out” panic attack), or DARVO threats. (aka You’re the Real Abuser Here.) Don’t fall for that shit. Your lawyer has seen it all. Just move forward.

And about that bookstore episode — you might get some chumps going, yea Bobby! Wish I could do that! sort of congratulations. (To which I’d counter, hey INNOCENT books have suffered!) No. That whole thing was a HUGE kibble high for her. Fighting over special, wonderful her. Oh the passion she inspires! A regular Helen of Books-A-Million.

Deny fuckwits centrality. ALWAYS.

We slip, we learn, that’s why we’re here. But no one wins the pick me dance, just the narcissist.

So Bobby, as much as I’d love to advise you to send your soon-to-be-ex-wife pictures of you kissing a divorce summons, I must tell you to go grey rock. Channel the meh. Get out as cleanly as you can with all the support you can.

We’re here for you.

She can check her sadz into Motel 6 and fuck it.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Dear Bobby, you are going to be fine. Do what Chump Lady suggests. Get out as quickly as you can. Stop talking to her. Don’t give her an opportunity to further abuse you. Adultery is abuse and she is abusing you. No wonder you are numb. That books a million event sounds like reactive abuse to me. Get you a therapist who agrees Adultery is abuse and a Super Lawyer. Get an STI panel. Check your finances. Take care of yourself, Bobby. You will begin to heal once you get away from her.

    • Bobby

      She cheats AND makes a false accusation – wow – please realize you cannot have unwitnessed conversations with her. My guess is she’s already telling some OM that you are threatening her.

      And She’s doing the “cost benefit” analysis (to HER) to see if another Chump with perhaps more money (or at least no awareness of her cheating narc ways), comes along to rescue her.

      Get out of there before she makes a police report and you have a record and she gets more in divorce court…

      And remember you are modeling for your son, what a healthy self respecting (in control of himself) man does when he’s betrayed.

      He leaves.

      Good luck.

    • Absolutely I also had to get out mine was bringing “THEM” through our family home, I served him immediately I found out everything just before Christmas 2015! It’s a hell of a shock after 21 years of marriage and two great kids! I’m still reeling from D day, “FOUR” years later!

  • Amen, amazing advice as always, I agree, NEVER be alone with her, protect yourself.

    I hope you get through it ok and lols to the Jackalope

  • As a guy chump who also found out she’d been telling fuckbuddies about physical abuse that did not happen, I can attest that this is the cruelest cut of all. And it should tell you that you have absolutely NOTHING to work with in any way, shape or form.

    If after X years together she thinks so little of you that she’d be so flippant and careless about so serious an accusation, you’re clearly dealing with an dangerous person masquerading as a human being.

    Shut this shit down, get a lawyer and let him/her handle everything until the settlement is signed.

    • That is horrible.

      I can’t imagine the lowness of someone who would make those false accusations. My ex treated me like shit on his shoe, screaming, insults, etc. But, he never laid a hand on me and I would have never accused him of it. Anyone who falsely accuses someone of physical violence, should have automatic prison time.

      • ????????????????

        Also those who falsely accuse rape. Both charges very easy to bring, and very difficult to refute.

        • Yes, and those liars hurt the real victims of those crimes. But, they don’t care; it is all about them and whatever they want at the moment.

          Much like the cheater who rewrites marital history. He/she doesn’t care that they are destroying another person; causing long lasting damage; they get some good orgasms out of the deal. Screw the victims.

        • Actually, it’s generally the opposite. Most victims of rape and intimate partner violence do not report it, and winning convictions for those who do is quite difficult.

      • Absolutely! I had too much respect for myself, much less (undeservedly it turns out) for him to ever raise a hand to him. Nor did he get physically violent with me (I think he knew that would have been a BAD move on his part.) But XAss did not hesitate one moment to take an incident where I gave him a not that hard finger flick on his shoulder and this Drama Queen told the judge in our custody case that I was constantly emotionally and physically abusing him by flicking him on the back of the head.

        These deranged individuals will take any incident, no matter how slight, and twist it in their minds to being the victim. And they will do it with glee.

    • My ex was telling the scumballs in the ho bar he hung out at that I beat him up every night when he came home from work – so I learned from my hairdresser. I was stunned and burst out laughing when she told me that in front of some of his scumball friends. However, for a man, I think it’s more serious. Get out of there Bobby and definitely record every time you’re with her. She can make DV claims and you might get hurt in the process. BTW, I eventually got a DV prosecution against my ex!

    • As a woman chump whose husband had many schmoopies—I was absolutely astounded at how many married women will tell their AP that they are being physically abused. It’s like a play in several acts.

      Schmoopie: oh! Where might I find a man, a real GOOD honest man, to save me from my horrendous boring husband, validate me, and treat me like the princess I am?!

      Captain Save-a-Ho: (crashes through the wall) Did someone call me?? I’ll save you, desperate lass!

      • Captain Save-a-Ho!! I’m dying.

        FW’s opinion of the other spouse when I asked him if he was scared he was gonna come kick his ass when he found out: He’s a reasonable guy. Wouldn’t risk jeopardizing his relationship with his kids.

        FW’s opinion of the other spouse when he discovered through the grapevine that I actually found contact info for him and was gonna disclose what had happened: Dude is fucking crazy. Is emotionally and verbally abusive to OW. You’ll make things dangerous for her if you tell him anything.

        • Mine tried that gambit too. He claimed OW’s husband was violent and might kill her if I told him. I asked him what he based that on. His response; “She said he was in a bar fight one time.”????
          Needless to say, I told him. Sadly, he didn’t kill her.

          • “Sadly, he didn’t kill her” hahahahaha. At first I was a bit nervous about telling the other BS because I wasn’t sure if he’d retaliate or not and then I began seeing it as win-win. Assuming he didn’t do anything that would hurt me and the kids.

      • Oh dear, I think the shmoopies all read some Cosmo article on how to “awaken his inner hero” or something. Beefy the Danger Pig tried every tactic in the book including that one. She strung a boyfriend along during the office flirtation stage, eventually dumping the guy before the hotel fuckfest began. I nearly gagged when FW admitted he’d basically used feedback he’d learned from me from the time I was an advocate for DV survivors. He warned Beefy that if the boyfriend was verbally aggressive, he could eventually be physically aggressive. Then FW would come home and be verbally aggressive to me. Sickening irony.

        Who knows if Beefy just made the whole thing up. It’s a coin toss. I do know she played the victim card throughout the affair– lots of weepy sulking that FW wouldn’t initiate divorce. Since FW outranked her at work, the histrionics carried the implied threat that she’d end up crying to others about the big bad man who showed her his penis and made her do bad things. When she gave FW an ultimatum that if he went on Christmas vacation with his wife and kids, she would be gone, FW didn’t bite so she regrouped and claimed to have gone on a few “scary, awful” (weep) Tinder dates while FW was away, maybe to trigger a combo of rescuer impulse and jealousy.

        I know that predators can be preyed upon and rape is still rape even if the victim is a sex worker. But I have met several borderline women who invented battering and rape and general victimy claims against men who get in their way. I wish this wasn’t so because of the way it muddies the waters but it exists. The only tip I can offer on distinguishing between the two things is my observation that the fakes tend to be way better at culling sympathy than actual victims. Real victims are too messed up to pull it off with aplomb (you know, drooping demurely like a wan princess in a tower with one decorous tear rolling down their cheek) As an advocate, I think I only met one (unmarried) survivor who even “overlapped” relationships slightly. I’m sure some couldn’t resist the offer of a bodyguard but most are too busy trying to get ducks in a row, hide bruises and protect children to entertain the idea of romance.

      • ???? Hilarious!
        Wimpy, passive men try that trick too. My idiotic cheater convinced schmoopie I was murderously violent. I guess it was in order to paint himself a victim and give their affair the extra thrill of high intrigue, like they were playing some sort of spy game and I was an enemy agent. Yeah, they must have been MI-Sex and I was Goldfinger or some shit. I will say that the fearsome rep he gave me came in handy in getting her to fuck off so I could divorce him in peace.

        • Hahahaha– I’m hearing Shirley Bassey singing Goldfinger in ny head. MI-Sux?

          Making the betrayed spouse into a bogeyman is standard for humper-dumpers. It’s an automatic escape hatch when it’s time to bail. Then instead of being furious at FWs and threatening to tarnish precious FW reps with Jerry Springer rants, shmoopsters wander away sadly, trailng their lingerie collections and rhapsodizing in whispers about their lost star-crossed amour fou, sniff.

          Also it seems even the office doorknobs kept turning FW down when he made the neophite cheater mistake of saying his marriage was fine but wife traveled too much and he was lonesome. Big turnoff. But fourth time was the charm– trashing the spouse works like catnip for doorknobs. Competition, triangulated bullying, victory over a rival– yippee!

        • Yes, men try false allegations as well.

          Former fuckwit answered my claim of domestic violence by accusing me of domestic violence. He even brought to a hearing a picture of a repaired hole in the wall to “prove” it.

          He’s 350+ lbs and 6’8” tall. My lawyer just about fell out of her chair when his lawyer brought up my alleged domestic violence.

          I’m not saying big, intimidating-looking men can’t be victims of domestic violence. Of course they can, and it’s probably very hard for them to report.
          I’m simply staying Wasband’s accusations were completely ridiculous.

    • When I hear these stories all I can think of are how many other men who were convinced the only way to save the woman is by killing the husband ~ very dangerous indeed.

  • Mine ex narc accused me of child abuse and drug addiction. My drug of choice, Naproxen. Yup, over the counter anti-inflammatories. As always with Narcs, accusing the victim of their own behavior. Hitting our kids, neglecting them to the point of medical attention needed for being left in unchanged diapers for hours while I worked a second job because I could not figure out how people who made a combined income of almost $200,000 had no saving.

  • Bobby,

    You’re like one of those characters in a horror movie. When you’re with this woman a spooky voice keeps screaming “Get Out!”, but you’re not leaving. Instead you’re putting yourself in danger as you try to get to the bottom of what’s happening. You need to realize that sticking around will only result in a lot of gory drama. You need to remove yourself from this situation at all costs ASAP! Listen to the voice! Get out!

    • Good analogy. Instead getting in the running car and getting the hell out of there, Bobby is running to the basement.

      • “Let’s hide in the attic, No, in the basement.”
        “Why can’t we just get in the running car?” (pointing to the running car and crying)
        “Are you crazy??!! Let’s hide behind the chainsaws!”

        Favorite commercial of all time!

    • It’s like that commercial with the group of teens that decides to “hide behind the chainsaws” with the scary crazy man instead of escaping in the running car. You need help to think clearly and flee! Get in the car!

  • Yes. Hostage situations are not relationships.

    OMG. This is what I lived. I had Stockholm Syndrome. Not any freaking more.

  • Yeah my STBXW never showed any “regrets” or remorse until I handed her the divorce summons and we ended up living apart after a false domestic violence allegation against me and then social services removed me from the home based on zero evidence. Now months later my STBXW cries everytime she sees me, messages me about her regrets and how she fucked everything up (dozens of AP’s) and how she wishes she could go back and never have done any of it. Funny there was nothing but hatred, anger, gaslighting, deceit and lies whilst married and whilst she was cheating non stop. It’s all a pity party for themselves and how it affects them. It’s like putting a puzzle together and you realise all the lies and all the manipulations. Stay safe.

    • I’m happy that she didn’t stick your head in the Sex Addiction blender. I don’t wish that on any chump.

      • Funny you mention sex addiction. My lawyers both questioned if there could have been a sex addiction but I think no, she is just a typical skank. They even questioned that since there were so many AP’s was she getting paid. I’m ready to get out off the blender.

        • Please don’t get sucked in if she or your lawyers say it’s a possibility. The sex addict mind fuck is like no other. And so what. You don’t want to be married to her whether she’s an “addict” or not. Assuming you even believe in sex addiction and the nonsense spouted by the CSAT branch of the RIC.

          • I don’t believe she is an addict or doing it for money, she is just a whore who ruined her own family. I’m moving on and rebuilding my life far away from her. She can save the excuses and lies for whatever naive idiot wants to believe them.

          • Right, why are the lawyers even speculating? Unless she did actually earn money from this, which would be very very bad for her if there is a custody dispute or hidden funds, etc what does it matter? You can leave a drug addict or an alcoholic to save yourself, and those most definitely exist.

            • I was shocked they mentioned it and I shot the idea down as none of the evidence I have even remotely suggests prostitution. Maybe they have seen this before, I’ve no idea but they are big city New York lawyers so who knows. Thankfully so far our divorce is non contested on either side.

              • CNLYLT– Even big-city lawyers (and police detectives) collect juicy tales for the pub. Divorce attorneys don’t always work for the good guys so there could be a tendency to exaggerate the opposition’s villainy in cases where they are actually working for the good guy, maybe just to create a balance for the next time they work for some godawful monster screwing a betrayed spouse out of a pension. If they were speculating, it means they’re invested in your case so that’s a plus.

    • Mine tried to get an order of protection on me for no reason at all, except that she was “coached” to do that because of course, if she was successful, it would have helped her case. She filed for the order, but when in front of the judge he asked what the grounds were for the filing but I guess she could not lie right to a Judge’s face so the motion for the order was dropped. That wold have had major consequences for me, even outside the divorce. There was no need for the order, I was not a violent husband or father.

  • Dear Bobby, SHE can’t decide. You are giving her all the power. Its YOUR decision. She lost the privilege to make any decisions about your relationship the moment she decided to play ‘hide the sausage’ with other men. Stand up for yourself…set boundaries!! Leave!! It won’t be easy and you will feel like a vice is crushing your heart, however noone ever dies from their feelings. Feelings don’t kill. STDs on the other hand….
    She can’t decide..She doesn’t need to. You’ve picked already and you pick yourself!!!

    • Dear Bobby,

      You absolutely can take it to the bank, the fact that SHE WILL NOT CHANGE! You might be getting high off a little hopium smoke, and that´s totally understandable. I mean, us chumps give umpteen chances, right? Especially when someone is REALLY sorry. I wasted years on that hamster wheel. Do not doubt that she will survive whatever consequences you/the universe meet out. Don´t take that away from her.

      You KNOW what the truth is and I wish you all the strength and clarity you can muster to move forward. This is a new day for you, no more “but she was so happy in 2015” thoughts! There´s no going back, there´s no unknowing. I can promise (PROMISE!) you will be so glad you decided for yourself. Lots of personal stuff is going to come to the surface for you, it´s all good, you can welcome this moment in your life for the new strengths you will discover. It´s all about growing and letting go of what doesn´t serve you and deciding everyday to live your best life, right now. YOU ARE WORTHY OF HAPPINESS!

      A big hug to you, I really feel for you. Just know that time passes and you will heal and you will be so happy!

  • “in he middle, she started sobbing and supposedly had a panic attack. Begged me to stay. Now that’s where we are. She still says how sorry she is 2-3 times a week. I didn’t even get that mad this time. I feel empty inside about it. Any advice?”

    Bobby, she is *not* ‘sorry’, she just wants to avoid *consequences*. She is manipulating you, don’t let her do it.

    Now is the time for you to line up your ducks, get a lawyer, and divorce her skanky arse.

    Don’t tip your hand. Get proper legal advice, and do what is best for *you*. ((hugs)) ????

  • I’m definitely going to have to borrow that line. It’s hilarious and too true.

  • I don’t ask for advice or help with making decisions from sick people who stick knives in my back.

    Just yesterday, in the most recent episode of Co-Parenting Therapy With A Cheater, the traitor criticized me for all the infidelity books I bought after finding out my marriage was a mirage. Those books are surely the reason our daughter wants nothing to do with him. “There were 30-50 books lying around!”

    The destructive thing LYING AROUND was HIM.

    I guess he thinks I was supposed to ask his permission? That I was supposed to ask him for help? That he knows what I should have done? That I should have asked him for advice on the right thing to do?

    This is where his thinking is at after THREE YEARS of being in therapy on his own since DDay NOV 2017.

    It’s best to get off an elevator as soon as you realize it’s broken rather than keep riding upward.

    • So let me get this straight: his daughter wants nothing to do with him because of your infidelity books. That’s rich!!! And blameshift gold!

      Also, I wonder if his therapist is one of those nodding validators.

      I swear mine pays someone $200/session to agree with him that I’ve poisoned the kids against him and that he’s a sad victim.

      I bet my ex’s therapist (same age and gender as my ex) probably even encouraged the affair. It was all about my ex honoring his feelings apparently. All he did was find LOVE and his “sole mate” (as your ex would say). What could be wrong with that? Sure, perhaps he hurt his wife, but she’s the ONLY ONE. He told one of our kids, “This is between your mom and me.” My son wrote back, “That’s so effed up.”

      That he was a dick to them for years doesn’t register.

      In the words of my daughter (she’s 33), “I have a brain.” I’m sure your daughter does, too.

      Good luck, VH!

      • The therapist he sees is someone I love and trust and referred him to, who is a bullshit buster. Yet success depends on what the client reports. Which is why we were referred to the co-parenting therapist. She is hearing from both of us….the heat is getting turned up…..two sides of the situation instead of just the one he is feeding to his therapist, who knows he lies. Why the X-AH is continuing to go to any therapy is the mystery.

        • As for therapy, garbage in, garbage out.

          Mine certainly doesn’t tell his therapist that he never had a good relationship with his kids and that he was emotionally abusive. On the contrary, he insists that he was “a great dad.”

          I’m sorry you have to co-parent. That’s one circle of hell I’m avoiding.

          • The DOCTOR claims he’s “progressing rapidly” with his therapist and that the reason he lived out of town during the week (for YEARS) was because we created a “TOXIC environment for HIM”–

            so he HAD to work far away and commute. Never mentioned the “toxicity” to me or the kids, and when we were publicly interviewed about our marriage (literally 3 months before D Day) he described our marriage as “wonderful” BUT had already made plans to leave for the tundra with or without me and said NOT ONE word of this.

            All I can do is shake my head and wonder at the sheer strangeness of it all.

            Yes I do have times where I recall who I thought he was and how deeply I loved him and believed in “us” and those moments bring me sorrow, usually. And I still have moments where I think to myself, “HOW can HE have wanted THIS??” How can he not miss our family or our children or ME??”

            I know, I know…useless questions!

            Lately I have come to view him more with pity and regret (regret about wasting so much of MY life with him) —
            and I accept that pondering him will never be painless.

            I accept that I will never understand his choices, (or maybe even my own) and I accept that I still have to go forward to live a happy life and I’m doing that.

            Still I hate that I ate so many shit sandwiches…& that he was so very, very unkind & disloyal.

            But dear God I look forward to feeling meh.

            When will Tuesday be here????!!

    • VH, mine made the exact same claim in co-parenting/child therapy regarding Patricia Evans books on emotional and verbal abuse. My daughter couldn’t even read when that occurred. He had a massive (image management) problem that the books are visible within my (full) book shelf for other parents from school to see.

      I replied, the question was why he would immediately assume that every visitor would automatically link verbal abuse to HIM.

      He also claimed he had never been abusive. While in reality he was name-calling,degrading and making fun of my chronic illness in front of our daughter and also directly verbally abused her on various occasions.

      But, yeah, the problem is that book about it.

      • Yeah, when the problem isn’t the problem but talking (or reading) about the problem is the problem. Alternate FW universe logic.

        • Along these lines, mine wrote something to this effect: “I know you’re reading a lot of books and people are telling you what you want to hear.”

          That’s both insulting AND patronizing, all in one efficient little sentence.

          Books threatened him.

          p.s. I don’t have any idea how he knew I was reading a lot of books. He imagined correctly, but he had no idea. We weren’t living together at that point. It was during the we-are-apart-but-not-yet-divorced period.

          • I’m having a hard week and this guy’s post has triggered me for some strange reason…

            Spinach —Regarding “therapy” for the cheater –

            it’s as you said Spinach, “garbage in, garbage out”. No way are they there to gain insight or CHANGE.

            And if by chance a real therapist says something that makes a Cheater look at their behavior and the natural consequences of their choices, no doubt the therapist won’t be seeing much more of the cheater client…

            As for the books you read (to start the healing from wounds your ex inflicted) and the “people telling you what you want to hear”


            It HORRIFIED ME to hear what my family (and my children!!) really believed about my ex. After 35 years, I felt so stupid for believing in him the way I did.

            NO, I did NOT “want to hear” the truth and I suspect you did not either.

          • You, you READER you! He could smell the library and Amazon packaging all over you. Book slut.

            • This is fucking hilarious!!
              Count me in the Book Slut club as well.
              It’s absolutely deplorable: I have at least four books (often more!) going at once. I hop from book to book, spreading who-knows-what between all of them, and none of them know about the others.
              Sometimes I will take a bookmark out of one, turn around and unceremoniously shove it right into the middle of another one!
              And I always write in them with the same pencil. How gross is that?
              When I am finished reading for the night, I make the book sleep nearby, knowing full well that dozens of books have slept with me in that exact same spot.
              It’s intense, the way I devour those books. I get way up into the middle of them. I can’t think of anything else when I am reading them.
              Yet when I am done with a book, I get rid of it. I just drop it through a hole in a wall or into a cold, hard metal box, right there on the street.

  • Sorry, I don’t understand the bookstore episode: does he mean he trashed a store fighting with this guy? I don’t condone abuse, I hope I got it wrong

    • I think h wiped the floor with one of the other men, in a bookstore. Totally understandable yet not wise.

      • He needs to check with his attorney regarding the bookstore incident. Return to the store, apologize to the manager and employees, make amends, etc. ?
        I’m sure his wife will use this in the divorce proceedings. “See your honor ? He’s violent !” Meanwhile women like this lap up this drama like cream. “Ooh ! Men fighting over me !”

  • Bobby,
    You didn’t mention any children. That’s to your benefit, easier for you to dump this manipulative twat,
    Under no circumstances have sex with this monster, what Tracy calls “hysterical bonding”. You don’t want be tied to this women for 18 or 22 MORE years ! Who knows ? She may already be pregnant with another man’s baby but since you’re married you’ll be paying child support. A lot of courts would rule in her favor. Not fair but it happens.
    Hugs to you-you got this. You will recover and rebuild.

    • Yes. Having sex can also be construed as condoning the adultery. You want to know if you are in a no-fault divorce state (if you are in the US) or if adultery is grounds for divorce.

  • This story resonates, but not with me. Someone who worked for me.

    He came home at noon one day to find his wife in bed with someone. When the other man got dressed and came downstairs to the living room, my employee was in the process of throwing furniture and threatening to punch the other man.

    The wife made a police report and lied about it, saying he had punched the other man. He was removed from his own home. He decided to file for divorce and the wife began the remorse crap. To test the remorse, he told his wife he’d return home if she told the police she had lied. She would not. The lie rippled through the divorce and affected custody, asset split, child support etc.

    • Horrible. And this sort of crap makes it much harder for actual DM victims to be believed. That poor man.

  • I hope you saved the pics sent from the OM. You need to start lining up your ducks and get the hell out. You married a sociopath and she is never , ever going to have some sort of epiphany and change. She’s not sorry. She’s just biding her time and you are, for whatever reason, useful to her at the moment. She’s already staging the “you are an abusive wife beater” narrative. Not to be dramatic but if she kills you and cries self defense, she has witnesses that she divulged the “ongoing abuse” she endured. You need to get out and do not let her know where you are residing. Can’t stress that enough.

    • I second that thought. It’s not being dramatic to say she might kill him. That’s what’s most terrifying; they have no empathy, they are capable of *anything*.
      Look up “murder suicide” on Google News or a similar site. Look at the pictures of the killers. Count how many of them look normal, high-functioning innocent people that you would trust with your kids.
      It’s terribly frightening.

      Listen to your gut. It’s not wrong.

  • Bobby,
    Run away from this evil whore like your hair is on fire….

    Thank your lucky stars you didn’t have kids together. Go 100 no contact. Focus on healing and get some insights on red flags you missed or ignored before getting involved again. When you’re free and have this perspective and insight you’ll find a woman of integrity and worth who will cherish you. Don’t worry! Most people are good.

  • Bobby: do you notice when you’re pursuing her, she’s pursuing others? And when you stop having emotions and turn to walk away that’s when she finally starts pursuing you? Do you really want to continue being in this emotional tango? Because it sounds really exhausting.

    • So true. Everytime I go full no contact she will start messaging me pretending to ask if I’m ok. All manipulation and her wanting attention.

  • Yay Bobby!! I can see the Books a million confrontation and opening that can of WhoopAss a on a much younger buck in rut. I hope the store damage was minimal as I fantasize you beating him unconscious with A hardcover, autographed copy of Leave A Cheater, Gain A Life ????????♾

    It’s every Manly-man chump’s dream (immediately after D-day) to seek vengeance on our betrayers partner however I’ll remind you that “vengeance is a dish served cold”. In hindsight with much regret you’ll find that was a stupid move on your part. It felt good at the moment I’m sure but in the end won’t help your future outcome. Adultery can end in death ????. Sadly, It happens every day somewhere, and someone goes to jail.

    The frosty ☃️ method of Her immediate exile, No Contact and a divorce decree served on her at work is nice and Antarctic.

    Just to let you know you’re not alone in your rage, I drove to one of my x’s sidefucks home for a front yard confrontation with that clown and by Cosmic grace he wasn’t there. I left him a note advising him to “leave x alone”. Total waste of time and effort On my part in hindsight.

    There was a better plan. Chump Lady laid it all out for me in her book. I can’t express enough the document, document, document strategic approach to build an irrefutable file of evidence. My cheater and her AP(s) texted their post fuckfest orgasm observations which I took a picture of. There’s no judge in the world that could deny that evidence. But the really cool reverse mindfuck was that x knew I had it- and my lawyer did too. I live in a fault state and could sue her AP in addition to divorcing her. They were Cold Busted. 10 months later I was free from that cum dumpster.

    Healing takes awhile Bro. Steel yourself for that process. We’re waiting over here on the other side of the rainbow ???? for you. The pain is finite. I hope your release and recovery leads quickly to peace ☮️ love ❤️ and Sanity.
    Semper Fi and let your bulldog lawyer handle the Lex Talionis.

    • Agree. Chumps losing their shit always and only benefits the cheater/narc. Lock yourself down in the moment however you can, and then find a safe way of offloading the feelings and stress later.

    • It’s not just men who have that fantasy. I wanted to smear the OW all over the pretentious yoga studio she frequented, plant my foot on her battered body and intone; “Namaste THAT, bitch.” in a flinty voice straight out of a Clint Eastwood film. The desire to do this was not to try to keep the cheater, but just because she deserved it. I resisted the urge. The little coward ran off like a scared rabbit as soon as she found out he got caught anyway. I suspect my reputation might have preceded me. 😉

  • Bobby: The most important thing to do TODAY, right now, is to start protecting yourself. If she can’t decide between you and the other guy, she’s already decided. Married people aren’t supposed to be out comparison shopping.

    1. Call the best divorce lawyers in your area and get consultations scheduled.
    2. Move your paycheck direct deposit to a separate account in your name only.
    3. Gather all financial documents, including documents that show your situation prior to the marriage. You will need to show what you brought to the marriage financially as well as the marital property you have now.
    4. If you have firearms in the house, store them with someone you trust (a sibling, a parent, your best friend). You do not want her to have access to them, and you don’t want her to be able to accuse you of threatening her with a firearm. Secure any other family heirlooms you don’t want to lose.
    5. You want to see a lawyer before you leave the house. We don’t know what your investment is in the home, but you don’t want to risk losing what you have. However, until you are cleared to move or to initiate getting her out of the house, move yourself into another bedroom, with a lock. I would also want to get a camera. For under $200, you can get one hidden in a smoke detector. Just have any discussion in the area covered there.
    6. Sit down and figure out what kind of divorce settlement you want.

    You’ve got nothing to work with here. It’s a knife to the heart, for sure. But once you aren’t living with her any more, and you can go no contact (if you have no kids together), you will start to heal. Please get Chump Lady’s book. It will help you a lot. And there’s a forum on Reddit that is private. You can be in contact with some of our amazing male chumps who have gotten free from similar situations. One thing you will learn is that your wife is not special case. There are people like your wife who do these terrible things. There are other people, like you, who wouldn’t dream of cheating or making false accusations. Find your tribe and stick to it.

    • How do you join the Reddit group? I seen a chumpnation but it just brings up content not available and automatically shuts. I’d be interested in joining the group.

      • It’s a private forum. I would start a Reddit account and then look for the forum. There should be a link to ask to join.

      • the correct location is:


        You should see a prompt to send a join request to the mods.

  • “Oh the passion she inspires! A regular Helen of Books-A-Million.”

    Sometimes I have to jump in and just hand clap with a shaking of the head like a Leo Dicaprio hand-clapping gif. You do have a way with words, CL — good stuff

  • Bobby
    This woman is the enemy. Treat her as such and get away.
    I did everything I could to smooth the transition through the divorce except outing her. I find out that she had some bullshit narrative that I was abusive. The injustice of this is sickening and can absolutely be weaponised so be very careful. Lawyer up and go no contact asap.
    Good luck

  • This just sucks. She just sucks.

    I am so sorry you have to go through this. My boyfriend has a similar backstory with his ex and due to kids he cannot even fully ignore her. She plays similar games, cheating for years both physically and emotionally, manipulated, lies… it is heartbreaking to see what she does to get her way and get attention.

    Get out of there. Convince yourself. Make a list of all her lies and inconsistency. Can this be a relationship that works for you?

    Here is my story:

  • “She can check her sadz into Motel 6 and fuck it.”


  • Bobby,

    First of all, being a feminist, I am furious! Any woman who falsely claims DV or sexual assault in order to manipulate others is the lowest form of mouth breather in existence. There are too many real cases of abuse and rape that get dismissed because of people like that. I don’t wish it on her, but perhaps she’ll trip her way into experiencing it for real someday….

    In the meantime, do what CL says: go grey rock, record all encounters with her, or take a witness with you.

    One good trick (for those who live in a state that won’t allow recordings without the other party’s consent): Get a home security system with video cameras outside the house. Whenever she comes to your home, only engage with her outside. Even better is to scout out public places that have cameras, like fast food restaurants. Agree to meet with her only at those locations. Get there first, find the camera, and wait for her. If she accuses you of DV at one of those meetings, your lawyer can subpoena the video, and the judge will not be happy with her!

    In the meantime, forgive yourself for the books a million thing. Betrayal causes trauma, which triggers the “fight or flight” response. It’s normal. Just work on your response control. Learn how to focus on meditative breathing, and use that skill when you’re triggered.

    They deserve worse, but not at your expense!

  • Bobby – do what Tracy tells you to do. Don’t tell the slore anything. See a lawyer. Make copies of everything financial and stow it safely out of the home in a locked drawer.

    GET TESTED FOR STDs too. Just do it. Don’t tell her (see above).

    Accusing you of physical abuse is her setting you up to be arrested.

  • The moment any person says they are struggling to choose between their spouse, to whom they pledged their undying love and support, and some other random person who came along? The marriage is over, nothing more than a zombie, the walking dead, with nothing animating it but inertia, illusion, and ignorance.

    Chuck it in the fuck-it bucket.

    • Absolutely.

      Never, ever should a spouse be asked to compete against someone outside the marriage. First of all, it is just wrong. You deserve better than them.

      Second, they have already chosen the other person, and they will keep screwing them while they watch you pick me dance. Don’t do it. You are just giving them the chance to come up and say, sorry you lost. But, hey you came in as a close second, or maybe third.

  • Hi Bobby:

    Let me guess: you decided on her when you asked her to marry you and confirmed it formally when you stood in front of the preacher and promised to forsake all others. So what gives her the right to “decide” who she will pick years into the marriage?

    Best case scenario is that she is seting you up as an abuser, worst case that she is soliciting men to harm you. I hope you listen to your chumpy brothers and sisters about protecting yourself, as I have a very bad feeling about your wife. It seems beyond narcissism and into psychopathy.

    Good luck, Bobby, I hope it goes well for you.

    • …”worst case that she is soliciting men to harm you.”

      And…”I have a very bad feeling about your wife.”

      Bobby, please listen and take steps to protect yourself. One of my guilty pleasures is those Investigative Discovery true crime shows (Deadly Women, anyone?) and you would not believe how many murders occur because cheating wife convinced her schmoopie that her chumped husband was an evil monster who beat/raped/abused her. Schmoopie steps in heroically (he thinks) only to find the whole set up was a pack a lies and he is looking at life in prison.

      You don’t want to be on the wrong end of that set up.

      Another Former Chump wishing you the best and urging you to get the f outta there.

  • Right, she couldn’t decide between her husband and a guy she only ever talked to on Instagram. Happens all the time. One minute you’re talking about how much you like Milk Duds with some stranger on social media and the next you’re considering leaving your husband for him. Oh please.
    She fucked him, dude. She fucked many more besides him. She wants you around to foot the bill for her sexcapades and for the enjoyment of torturing you with them. She’s evil and a user. Protect both your assets and your good name. This bitch will not hesitate to swear out false statements of abuse against you in court after she’s served with divorce papers and flies into a rage. Right now you’re getting the self-pity channel of the Fuckwit network. That’s what they do when charm doesn’t work. When self pity doesn’t work the only other channel is fury out of the fires of hell. Set up some hidden cameras if you can so you can prove her the filthy liar she is. She had a panic attack, but the panic was about losing your income and her narcissistic supply, not about losing her marriage. The marriage means nothing to her.

    As far as any feelings you have for her are concerned, I quote a character from my all-time favorite television show, Homicide, Life on the Street. One detective is obsessed with a woman just like your wife and like you, he gets into jealous fisticuffs over her cheating ways, which she practically has an orgasm over. He knows she sucks, but he tries to explain his feelings to his friend. He says that it’s like living in Des Moines, Iowa and with all your heart wanting a woman who lives in the Arctic, but neither of you can relocate. You know it’s impossible, but you can’t let go. His friend deadpans; “There’s lots of nice girls in Des Moines.”
    So, Des Moines awaits you. No need to freeze your nuts off in the Arctic.

  • Maybe I’ve been reading too many murder mysteries and closely following all the homicides in my area, but there is a serious danger when someone like Bobby’s wife tells her affair partners false allegations of physical abuse by Bobby. Portraying herself as a victim can result in violence against Bobby from an over-protective affair partner! People have been killed due to false allegations like this. Bobby needs to protect himself from false allegations and be wary of strangers.

    Also, I used to do Child Protective Services investigations and we got a lot of child abuse allegations in December, as separated/divorced partners lobbied for control of who got the kids for Christmas/holidays! It is very difficult to counter claims of sexual or physical abuse of very young children. The sad thing is that resources are directed to investigate false claims while legitimate abuse goes unreported, or not given the attention deserved.

  • Be very careful about the possibility that she’s going to accuse you of abuse. You mentioned a child of an older age, but I’m not sure if there are younger children that might make custody an issue. If so, she may use this against you to try to gain the greater access and the child support.

    I have a chump male friend who reacted very badly when he found proof of the affair his wife was having. He marched to her work and burst into her office. By that point she had her AP on the phone in distress. He pleaded with her to come home to discuss the issue. Grabbed her by the elbow to pull her out of her office and knocked the phone out of her hand. He uttered a threat to the AP on the phone.

    You guessed it. Police called. A no contact order put in place to keep him from his wife. She used it to keep him from seeing the children. Then she claimed abuse and that the children had been abused. Three years duking it out in courts. Over a half dozen Family and Children Services reports filed by her (anonymously) claiming concern for the children. None yielded any results and actually started to produce reports that worked in his favour more than hers.

    In the meantime, the AP moved in within six weeks and the wife pushed to have him replace the father. The kids started to get confused. The son started calling the AP dad at school. The AP started to put all sorts of taunting messages and memes on social media aimed at the chump, claiming him to be the narcissist. Meanwhile, my friend became so afraid to be with his children that he was making sure he always had family around and was taking pictures of them to show that they were not going back to their mother’s with bruises as she was making calls anytime they had a scratch. He ended up in a lot of serious counselling, crippling self-doubt about his sanity, questioned if he really knew how to parent his kids.

    It’s now been four years and she still claims severe trauma from having been grabbed and a phone knocked out of her hand at her place of employment. Who knows. Maybe there truly is trauma from the past that got especially triggered by this event, but hard to believe it is this event alone.

    It’s a mess. So, be very careful. Get the evidence of her cheating and get in front of the narrative. Do not ever be with her alone. If you have young children, be sure you are clearly establishing shared custody and shared access from the get-go.

    Even my ex will tell people that I abused him in our marriage. I guess I am responsible for what could constitute emotional abuse. There were times I yelled at him, resented him, was sarcastic, passive aggressive. I’m not proud of the way I acted in my frustration and resentment within the marriage, and I can see how it could easily be used by him to claim abuse. It is a stretch though. And more than two years of psychotherapy, two support group programs later and regular confession with my priest, I have yet to find someone tell my point-blank that I was clearly an abusive wife.

    Hard to deal with cheaters in all their victimhood.

    • Hi OptionNoMore. Your story reminds me of my own. My ex had me completely convinced that I was the abusive partner. We were together for 20 years and he used that to control me for all of that time. He was an expert at twisting my response to his abusive behavior, including shoving me around, into my being an out of control abusive person. He also convinced me that my children were frightened of me. (Given my FOO, this was actually easy for him to do – but that is another loooong story). Anyway, on dday, the kids, all young adults, immediately sided with me. My son threw him out, they shared stories with me of how he deliberately tried to hurt my relationships with them over the years and how his abuse towards me was what they witnessed – not the other way around. I was not convinced and I made an appointment with a therapist who specialized in DV, to see if she could help me, still seeing myself as an abuser, change. At the end of our first of many sessions she handed me information on DV and explained that my husband was abusing me and what he was twisting my response into a narrative of me abusing him. Four years later my children and I are all NC and doing well. I am still processing what happened, hence I am here at CN, but I am better than I was and my children are thriving without his toxic presence.

  • Bobby, if you can, go back and screen shot or save all the evidence you have of your wife cheating on you, especially anything that pre-dates that incident at the Books-a-Million. That stuff could potentially be used by your lawyer to demonstrate how your wife was actively provoking you. It may not get you a complete legal pass on what happened, but may get you some leniency.

    I want to echo the advice to get a consult with a lawyer ASAP. Your situation could go south very, very fast. One second you think everything is fine, and the next minute you’ve got police at your door, you’re being escorted out of your own home, and your wife has filed a restraining order. Think that can’t happen? Read some of the ChumpLady archives. Be pro-active. Protect yourself.

  • Run, run, run. She will frame you for something worse yet. She is playing you like a violin.

    She has proven herself a con artist, liar, and a cruel bugger. Don’t fall for her hoovering.

  • Hi again Bobby:

    I can’t stop thinking about your situation, and whether it warrants something drastic like a PI, GPS, and computer/phone tracking. What we Chumps know is usually only the tip of the iceberg, and what you don’t know…I can’t advise you because I’m like an Amish girl when it comes to technology… but if you can afford professional help in this arena, could be worth your while. I wonder what other hideous lies she is feeding her OM.

  • Bobby, you mention that YOUR son is 26, and you are 49, but leave out the more relevent information of your wife’s age?

  • One thing you also need – I didn’t read all the comments but I didn’t see it in the ones I have looked at:

    On top of the divorce practical money stuff, is something that we always advise women, but somehow this hasn’t been said: STD testing.

    She says it’s just Instagram…
    she also tells people you beat her.

    You know how I really knew my ex was cheating? That it wasn’t just porn or buying underwear from strangers on Craigslist? He wasn’t just calling escorts and massage parlours because it gave him a thrill to think about acting on it. It was this: No one calls an STD clinic to check on results from their porn and thrill seeking phone calls.

    That phone record gave me a panic attack. That made me dry heave, because I hadn’t eaten in ages. I had a sadz too. It made it all very real to me.
    He was a liar.

    Get yourself swabbed, labs drawn, it’s relevant. She’s a liar.

  • “The Myth of Mutual Abuse” is an eye opening article. Abuse is about power, and only one person at a time can have power in a relationship.
    Wasband made and controlled all the money, was way bigger than me physically, and could gaslight like a champion. The things I did were in defense of myself.
    He says I have an anger problem. I say even the Pacific Ocean will make a tsunami if there’s an earthquake big enough.

  • >
    %d bloggers like this: